Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 60: Jazz It | My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

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For full offer details, visit boostmobile.com. My favorite. Hello. Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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As you well know, every Wednesday, we recap our old podcast episodes with all new commentary, updates and insights.

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And today we're recapping episode 60, which we named Jazz It. Perfect name. Find out why.

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So good. This episode came out on March 16th, 2017. So let's get into it. The intro of episode 60, Jazz It.

00:02:50

hi hi hi how's it going good how are you real good yourself good thank you good good good good

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this is my favorite murder we're a podcast uh that talks about um true crime stories and

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really breaks them down yep and that's all we talk about that's uh that's not true

00:03:15

there is a lot of lying on this podcast and we don't yeah this is pretty this is pretty exactly

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how it goes yeah if you don't like it go away don't Karen gets real mad at you guys sometimes

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I feel like people kind of like at live shows they like when you yell at them so they'll purposely

00:03:36

like scream something well I mean some of those live shows it's like those people have never been

00:03:42

in a theater or been to a live show before. It's just like drunk girls who are yelling the same thing over and over.

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That's not how you act. Then you hear other people shushing those people. Oh, God.

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It's just intense. It's just like, it feels like there's a fight's going to break out.

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And it might be with you. Oh, that's fine with me. I'm thoroughly trained. You love a bar fight.

00:04:04

God, I'm sorry. I do have some corrections. when you were talking about Sam Shepard and you told that story I began to confuse Sam Shepard with

00:04:19

with Dr. Jeffrey McDonald who also killed his whole family or is suspected of he's the one with

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the there was saying there's three crazy people they like to say these things yes your guy Sam

00:04:31

Shepard was in the early 60s my guy that I was thinking you were talking about was in 69 and so

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the whole time that's why at one point in that episode i was like what year was it because i was

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like there could i in my mind there's no way there could be two doctors who killed their whole families

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and were like and like guilty or like suspected and also equally not and got away well this is

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sham shepard's the one sham sham he's a sham sam shepherd's the one who got kind of famous

00:05:01

afterwards yeah and like was it kind of a douche right never both but and uh uh and they both they

00:05:10

both didn't kill their children who were sleeping in the bedroom next to where they killed their

00:05:15

wives well i don't want to agree because i allegedly killed their wives all right uh but

00:05:22

dr jeffrey mcdonald is the one who fatal vision is about and who is also the one who the errol

00:05:28

Morris new novel that's basically a refuting Fatal Vision is about. Wait, so refuting saying

00:05:36

that he did or didn't do it? Fatal Vision was basically Joe McGinnis making friends with

00:05:41

Jeffrey McDonald and then being like, here's how he did it. And then when like in Errol Morris's

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book, which I just got a book on tape of, they basically break down how it was just super

00:05:52

mishandled And like it was just they were trying to make money Helter Skelter style and it was you know the whole thing was kind of unfairly presented I guess Okay But I have to listen to the whole thing before I

00:06:06

I sure do love to talk about things I don't know that much about. No, I feel like you shouldn't

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listen. Let's hear it now. Let's just theorize. Much like when I talked about scuba diving

00:06:15

and I said that you have to have a partner because there's no way you can check your things.

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Yeah. Well, of course, then everyone on Twitter is like, yes, you can check your things.

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It's not like someone's going to be like under the water. What if they did though?

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Karen said, you didn't need to correct that. You know what I mean? I mean, here's the thing though. It's those little lies.

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Yeah. It's the same one as I said that my dad got chemotherapy three times a week.

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And then I thought about it this morning. I'm like, he got it once a week. and they got it for like you know eight i don't know three weeks three months or something like

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that um but just as i talk it's just all like blah blah but she sounds so confident about it

00:06:56

like i wouldn't know um uh did you hear about the chick in seattle and i'm sure you did because

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every single person in the world tweeted it at us but the girl who was running in the park in

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Seattle in Ballard, which is like a nice little community who got attacked in the bathroom,

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in the public bathroom in the park, which I'm terrified of those. And she's, yeah,

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she fucking fought him and said, not today, motherfucker. And here's the gray area is like,

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you don't want to say how badass she is because there's that sending the message that you should

00:07:29

always fight once, you know, that's, it's just such a situational thing and like reading the

00:07:34

situation. So you don't want to be like, beat the shit out of the person attacking you because that

00:07:38

could be the absolute wrong thing to do in that situation. I say in all of these scenarios,

00:07:42

anything in life is a case by case situation. And just because we're saying it out loud,

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doesn't mean it's a rule of any kind. Nobody needs to hear that in particular, but

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yeah. Also if you, if you, I think in a situation like that, those bathrooms, it's like a secluded, she knows she's secluded in a park and then even more so in that bathroom,

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it's a man inside the woman's bathroom that's there's nothing about this that can be

00:08:09

turned around so go for it yeah that's true go for it you know you know as a human being when

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you are in real danger right that's then just allow those instincts to take over i think i would

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say yeah i think it's all instinctual i don't think it's any thinking at that point right

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fuck man and i like the idea that like i think didn't she say she had taken a self-defense class

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And so that's where that came from is just like, because that's the thing they teach you is you just start fucking yelling.

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Well, the thing I really did like about it, and I think what I took away from it is that at one point, you know, she was fighting him.

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And at one point she thought in her mind, this doesn't have to be a fair fight. And so, you know, it wasn't like wrestling.

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It was then she said, I started clawing at his face. Yes. And I think that that to me kind of hit me because it was like, this doesn't have to be civil.

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This can be fucking out of control. yes if there is someone in the bathroom that came into the bathroom to harm you or touch you in any

00:09:08

way yeah that you don't want to happen you go the knee goes to the nuts the fingers go to the eyes

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and you fucking go for it animal style like they serve it in and out you fucking go for it yeah

00:09:22

put some fucking thousand island on that on that motherfucker put that thousand island beat down

00:09:26

you melt that cheese on top of that beat down girl and you fucking put some sauteed onions and

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some fucking thousand island beat down. It's called the not today motherfucker special

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and you give it, you serve it up for free. Animal style. Yeah, a hundred percent.

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Bon appétit, mother of mine. We have to take a class so we can talk about actual,

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I want to do it really bad. Let's do it. Yeah. Let's do it. I think the reason that I hesitate,

00:09:53

if I'm going to be totally honest, is because you know those suits that they make

00:09:56

the people put on so that you can attack them? Or the ones that the dog attacks, like to have the dog attack you.

00:10:03

Yeah, but I'm specifically talking about the ones where the guy has to stand there,

00:10:06

but there's like a grate in front of a space, but everything else is pads. I'm scared of that.

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Of that character or putting that on? It looks like an off-brand Michelin man. That in and of itself is like horrifying.

00:10:19

I think it would like stop me in my tracks. Maybe it would make you fight him more.

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Maybe your instincts will kick in and you'll be like, well, I can do this. Maybe I'm afraid that my animal instincts will kick in.

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I'll pull that fucking great out of the face and then in with the fingers and the eyes.

00:10:35

Yeah. Then I get sued. Maybe you should. Hey. You know what? Why is this creepy guy teaching this class anyways?

00:10:42

Like what's really his motive? Now he has your address because you had to fill out a thing.

00:10:46

Now he's my credit card number. And your address. And he's going to Taco Del Taco every night on my dime.

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I know. That's bullshit. A literal dime. Who is this one? Tuesday nights. You can get so much stuff.

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Oh, man. Oh, man. I fucking hit that place so hard when this is out of town. I went to...

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Oh, my God. Do you drive there? Yeah. You mean because it's down the street from me?

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It's not super close. I would say it's super close. I drove home and went there.

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But I did go out of my way to go to Carl's Jr. like the day before. Nice. it's that fucking when the dog's away the you know the animals yeah i bet you're farting all

00:11:29

over this apartment too that's the fun of it when you clean all up and you put on one of your nicer

00:11:37

house dresses yeah you're like welcome home oh look how normal i am look i made your casserole

00:11:42

you married a normal wife way to go totally normal wiping like weird beans out of the

00:11:48

Horn in your mouth. Thousand Island. Anything else Those were all my mistakes That it Bless me Father Fry sin How long has it been since your last episode of My Favorite Murder It been I mean it probably been a good 10 years since my last confession

00:12:09

Since you've been to confession? Yeah. I've always been creeped out by confession.

00:12:13

It is. As a Jewish person, I'm like, fuck it, no. It's super weird. And the fact that they introduced it to you when you're in third grade is the creepiest part.

00:12:24

because they explain it to you. And for me, the type of person I was, which is hating to do anything I've never done before,

00:12:32

I couldn't get anybody to explain it enough to me. Yeah. Plus you have to memorize,

00:12:36

you have to have our father, the Hail Mary and the act of contrition all memorized perfectly.

00:12:42

So if you're in there and it's your line, like you can't drop a line. You're like, I just learned my ABCs.

00:12:48

Yes, I'm like, can you crash out of like adding and subtracting? And now I'm like, you have to recite an incantation to like just the shadow of a man's face behind.

00:13:00

It is the oldest looking inside those. And who the fuck is he? Does he have your address?

00:13:04

You know what I mean? Like, why did he want my child's credit card? Why did he fucking who is he to say?

00:13:11

Who is he to take my hard earned credit in third grade? Yeah. It's really crazily creepy.

00:13:17

What's cool about Hebrew when you're like doing the prayers and stuff is that, A, they write it like phonetically.

00:13:23

So you can like just follow that. And also they, you can just kind of make noise.

00:13:28

Oh. Because the whole congregation singing it at once. It's just kind of. Yeah. It's pretty great.

00:13:34

That is good. So I don't know. Do you. When's the last time you went to temple? Oh, my.

00:13:40

Years and years and years. Oh. No. Do you ever have the holiday thing where you're like, oh, it's.

00:13:45

Oh, yeah. We have holiday dinners and we get together for holidays and we'll say a couple of the

00:13:49

prayers, but we don't. But you're going to take it into that temple, make it official.

00:13:52

No, we're very chill. Right, right. But I did have a bat mitzvah. Did you stack that paper?

00:13:59

Kind of. I was bat mitzvahed by a lesbian. Nice move. Yeah. Thanks, mom. That's really, really orange, like opposite Orange County of you.

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Yeah. I like that. They don't really do stuff like that down there. No. Yeah. It's pretty sweet.

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Anyways. It's surprising that you were a Jew in Orange County. There weren't a lot of us.

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We had temple in a church. And we had Sunday school. I mean, we had Hebrew school in a Sunday school.

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There was just like Jesus posters all over the wall. They're like, you have an hour and no more.

00:14:29

Yeah. Baruch HaTah, get it out of the way. Goodbye. We don't support what you're doing.

00:14:34

Shalom. Get the fuck out of here. Hey, how about take a look at this New Testament?

00:14:39

That's where all the action is. So this is a podcast about true crime. who was let's see who went first at the last show the live show steven you did i went first

00:14:52

oh you're right okay yeah so it's me yeah what i'm just everything's becoming a blur i don't know why i don't know what way i just

00:15:05

if you had made me guess just now it wouldn't be like a cute for the show thing i had absolutely

00:15:09

not only no idea who went first or last, I couldn't remember if it was a live show or a

00:15:15

pre-recorded in this room show. I get it. Like, I'm not there. I'm not there either. I'm far away.

00:15:24

Okay. And we are back from that intro. What's interesting, this episode will be coming out the

00:15:34

first day of the My Favorite Murder Live tour. That's right. So it's September 3rd. We will be,

00:15:40

as we're speaking, in Denver, Colorado at the Paramount Theater, beginning our tour. I mean,

00:15:46

who'd have thunk it back then, episode 60, to be like, guess what? Yeah, still happening.

00:15:52

And you'll be talking about it on an episode of a show you're not even doing yet that doesn't

00:15:56

exist yet. Don't even worry about it. Just do the show. Just keep going. Just keep going.

00:15:59

So that's it. There's actually a very exciting update for this episode. Do you want to talk

00:16:03

about it? Yeah, we want to talk about the woman that we had mentioned in the beginning of the

00:16:07

episode, the woman who fought off her attacker. Her name is Kelly Heron. She's a 36-year-old

00:16:12

runner. And as I said, she was attacked in a public restroom in Seattle on March 5th, 2017,

00:16:18

by a registered sex offender hiding in a stall. And she fought back. And now she co-teaches

00:16:25

self-defense workshops, especially for runners and workplace groups in participation with

00:16:31

Fighting Chance Seattle, the same instructors who taught the class that empowered her to fight back

00:16:36

in her 2017 attack. And she also co-founded RunBuddy, a safety app for joggers. Like,

00:16:42

what an incredible woman. That's so cool. If you're a jogger, please go download RunBuddy and support Kelly and all of her great work taking,

00:16:52

you know, something horrible that happened in her life. And from the second it started, I mean,

00:16:57

And to this day, I love her being like, not today, motherfucker. And it's like, it feels to me like she's just continued that advocacy, like out into the world.

00:17:06

It's so, so cool. I'm embarrassed to say I still have not taken a self-defense class with you or without you.

00:17:12

And it pops into my fucking head every couple months, you know? I know. I know. We got to do it.

00:17:19

I mean, look, there's been some other stuff going on. but this it would be a really cool fun thing because I think it's like a great opportunity

00:17:29

women like hanging out learning something it's constructive it's empowering but then also you're

00:17:35

just like it doesn't have to be like a sip and paint or a you know what I mean there's things

00:17:40

people are doing or just going to a bar or whatever it's like do something that's like as

00:17:45

kind of that fun of a group activity but then also learn how to break someone's trachea if you need

00:17:51

to Yeah I mean I follow a lot of those Instagram accounts now but that not going to watching It not going to help me as much as doing it on a Michelin a fake Michelin man Yeah Yeah Statue Still scary Yeah I feel like we should count up all the things we said we were going to do on this show

00:18:07

No, no, no. Because there truly are probably 5,000. Oh, my God. We just seem so flaky once we count.

00:18:15

I think we already do. We're just, we have really good intentions. And we're like, we really, we love our future selves and we want to do so much for her.

00:18:24

Yeah. But our present selves love the couch. Oh, the couch is a beautiful place to be.

00:18:29

Yeah, I agree. We're ambitious and lazy. Yeah, it's a great combination. It is. We're doing fine.

00:18:39

We're doing our best. So let's get into Karen's story about, ooh, this is a classic,

00:18:46

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That's redfin.com. so this interestingly enough i got this murder from one of my last packs of true crime baseball

00:21:50

cards that steven gave us for christmas i keep forgetting to look at those here's what i'm doing

00:21:55

so uh my new thing is it spring is i just keep cleaning out drawers in my house or like

00:22:02

containers that's awesome um thank you i it feels good i'm also been wiping down walls which is a

00:22:08

really weird hypnotic thing to do. Like with the magic eraser? Yes. Oh my God. I'm obsessed with

00:22:13

those. Exactly that. Because I didn't realize I had done look around in my house that much,

00:22:18

but there are walls. You quoted look around, like open my eyeballs. You'd like, don't put

00:22:23

your glasses on when you go in your house. Be in my own home in any real present way. I get it.

00:22:28

Because I have two dogs and one is a short to the ground dog. I didn't see that there are many

00:22:34

walls in my house that look like the end of the Blair Witch where there's just a bunch of

00:22:39

child hands, like dirty fingerprints that look like people are trying to climb in or out of the

00:22:44

house. Because he jumps up? Yeah, like they jump. And also the paint on the wall is old and it's

00:22:50

really powdery and porous instead of the opposite. I have that too and it feels like chalk. Yes.

00:22:55

I need semi-gloss or I will lose my mind. Because with this other shit, you walk by and say the word

00:23:03

dirt and there's a smudge on your wall. It is maddening. So anyway, I, but I looked, I realized

00:23:08

how much I got used to it because I was like, that looks like a crime scene. Like it looks weird.

00:23:13

Yeah. Like, like somebody tiny tried to pull their way along the wall, but it just Frank,

00:23:19

like running out of one room and curbing and like his little feet go up on the wall to get

00:23:24

clonking into the wall. Why am I talking about? Oh, because so, so i clean so in on top of those okay just me and my free time wow uh also cleaning out some

00:23:37

drawers found two more packets nice of the true crime which i thought i was done with all of them

00:23:42

so i got super excited open one up found this murder i had never heard it oh i think i'd heard

00:23:48

of it but just like didn't really know any details or any specifics can we really quickly and i just

00:23:52

thought of this we sent is that where you got the papan sisters that from like two episodes ago

00:23:57

because I want to talk about the gift we got that the girl gave us. at one of the live shows.

00:24:00

Oh, that's a good idea. Should we just do it now? Yeah. Okay. You guys remember the Papan sisters?

00:24:05

They clawed the eyeballs out of their fucking mistresses. And this girl brought us a little packet

00:24:09

and there was a little necklace in it that said they're not marbles. Yes. And there was a little locket

00:24:18

that had the Papan sisters photograph in. And then there was like a handmade like clay eyeball.

00:24:25

Yes. And it was just like the most well thought out gift, I think. like these three little almost charms in a box that no one would get if you didn't know and then

00:24:35

we like opening it up and looking at them did we each get one or that we had one and it's going up

00:24:40

into the no we we each got one okay I can't believe that so she made two eyes two charm

00:24:46

two lockets two um and I don't think I knew how to express to her like how an eye was of it and

00:24:54

She acted like, oh, you know, stupid. And it's like, no. No, we were like, this is amazing.

00:24:59

We never get to do that because we kind of feel that way. I think people see us saying it a lot, but it really is true when somebody is like, here's

00:25:07

this thing I know you really like. Yeah. Even though it's like I didn't make it.

00:25:11

Yeah. It's unbelievable. It's amazing. And it's just a really good little eyeball too.

00:25:16

That's sitting there. It's a good eyeball. All right. Sorry. No. So no problem. It's weird that you asked that though, because the Papan sisters were in this deck.

00:25:23

Oh my God. Yes. I almost, I should have done it. I almost sent you a picture when I opened it and they were like

00:25:28

the third people in. I should have taken the picture and sent it on our constant text thread

00:25:34

that me, Steven and Georgia are just never not on now. That's our life. It's photos. It's fucking

00:25:39

quotes. It's Steven going, they've asked you seven times. You have to answer. Yeah. Yes. That's our

00:25:44

life. Anyhow. So I found this here and then in, uh, in my research, it exploded and flowered out

00:25:53

into something else, which I just am kind of amazed by. Okay. Okay. So here's how we start.

00:25:58

It's the Axeman of New Orleans. You know that one? No. Okay. So he was a serial killer who

00:26:05

struck in the city of New Orleans from May 1918 through October of 1919. He attacked,

00:26:12

obviously using an axe that he found in the home. He didn't bring anything with him. Each time he

00:26:17

Okay, tell me. Yes. So it's the turn of the century. So a lot of people have axes laying around the outside of their house.

00:26:25

And a lot of the places where he attacked. Well, in here, he sometimes did it with a straight razor, but mostly with an axe.

00:26:33

Which one is worse? Straight razor. Straight razor is fast. I don't think you'd even feel it.

00:26:40

I think you'd be like, why is my neck cold in this one tiny place? That's what I don't want.

00:26:44

I want to be clunked over the head and fucking out. Okay. Then you want an axe. Oh, I guess.

00:26:50

Yeah. Then we're going to put you in an axe. Yeah. Jesus Christ. Okay. I think that's what it is because straight razor, you would, but you'd bleed out so fast

00:26:58

because it's just across the neck. I don't know if you would. I mean, you definitely have time to look around panic.

00:27:04

Don't want that. So the what's worse to me is straight razor. Okay. And what's worse to you is that.

00:27:08

You just, you want to be out. Yeah. Makes sense. Yeah. Okay. So here's what happened.

00:27:12

this guy uh would use the tools that he found in the home he would kill the whole family

00:27:20

and he would hang out either before or after they can't they couldn't figure out before or after

00:27:26

oftentimes eating so they could have invited him in could have um usually the home is found locked

00:27:34

when the police get there oh my god um and it's never robbed even though most of the time the

00:27:41

people have valuables out very openly, whatever. Never, ever any sign of robbery.

00:27:48

And oftentimes mirrors and faces are covered with fabric. Creepy. Yes. Okay. So it starts on May 22nd, 1918.

00:28:01

So a grocer named Joseph Maggio was sleeping alongside his wife, Catherine, at their home on the corner of Upper Line and Magnolia Streets.

00:28:11

for people that live in New Orleans. So a guy breaks into their house. He cuts their throats with a straight razor.

00:28:18

And upon leaving, he bashes their heads in with an ax. Oh, man. So he found both in the house.

00:28:24

So you don't even need to choose. That's right. Here's where to take that off your plate.

00:28:28

I don't even need to ask you that question. Don't even worry about it anymore. Cut that out.

00:28:31

Because you are going to feel both quickly and then, but it's over anyway. Yeah.

00:28:36

Catherine's throat was cut so deep that her head was nearly severed from her. I hate that.

00:28:40

That's bad. And see, that's the thing is like in those mafia movies and stuff, when the guys get

00:28:48

leaned back and get at the barber to get shaved and the barber has the straight razor and off

00:28:53

times in an, if it's a movie, they'll cut their throat for a reason. But that like bond of trust that you would have to have with that man, because they're

00:29:02

doing that to you. But I feel like a lot of times in movies I've seen that, you know, the guy would lean back

00:29:08

to get shaved, close his eyes, and then the mafia guy would trade the places with the

00:29:14

barber. So the barber didn't do it. He was just a neighborhood dude. He stepped out of his

00:29:18

place. He didn't retain his duty as the barber to fight and defend your life. He has a family to worry about.

00:29:24

He took the oath. Okay. So... For a moment I was like, what? Oh, fuck. That's right, the barber's oath.

00:29:34

I mean, there's probably... Okay. In the apartment the police found bloody the bloody clothes of the murderer so he changed into a clean set of clothes

00:29:43

before he left uh which is the in like also reflects back to him just chilling out like this

00:29:50

committing these terrible murders and they just hanging out um so they didn investigators didn do a complete search of the premises um after the bodies were removed So later on that bloody razor was found on a neighbor lawn And that razor that was used

00:30:06

to kill the couple belonged to Andrew Maggio, who's the brother of Joseph, the grocer who was

00:30:12

murdered in his bed. And Andrew owned a barber shop. They were brothers, yeah. And those brothers

00:30:19

are the people that found Joseph and his wife, Catherine, because they were like staying at home

00:30:24

and not answering the phone or whatever, not doing what they were supposed to be doing.

00:30:27

And the three brothers went over there and found their bodies. So... His employee, Andrew's employee, Esteban Torres,

00:30:38

told the police that Maggio had removed the razor from his shop two days prior to the murder,

00:30:43

explaining that he wanted to have a nick honed from the blade. So the razor was out of the barbershop

00:30:49

and had gotten to get fixed somewhere. So it's just out of the, it's in the mix now, I guess, is the point of that.

00:30:59

Maggio, who lived in the adjoining apartment to his brother's residence, discovered the gruesome scene two hours after the attacks occurred.

00:31:07

And he blamed his failure to hear any noise related to the attacks in the early morning hours on his being drunk because he had returned home the night before from a celebration due to his departure to join the Navy.

00:31:19

Police, however, were surprised that he failed to hear the intruder as he did make a forced entry into the home.

00:31:28

So then Andrew Maggio, the brother of Joseph, became the police chief's prime suspect.

00:31:33

But then he was released when investigators were convinced that his alibi held up.

00:31:40

He also told police that there was an unknown man seen lurking near the residence prior to the murder.

00:31:46

Right. Right. So then, so that was May 22nd. About a month later on June 27th, in the early morning hours,

00:31:58

Louis Besumer and his, oh, Louis, sorry, Louis Besumé. Let's say that because they're all French back there

00:32:05

in New Orleans. Louis Besumé and his mistress, Harriet Lowe, were attacked in the quarters

00:32:12

at the back of his grocery store. This is grocery store number two. um besumé was struck in the uh with a hatchet above his right temple which resulted in a possible

00:32:22

skull fracture uh and harriet was hacked over the left ear and found unconscious when the police

00:32:29

arrived they were discovered shortly after 7 a.m in the morning um by john zanka who was the bakery

00:32:36

uh truck driver and he came to the grocery to make a delivery and then he found both uh louis

00:32:42

besame and his mistress harriet lowe in a puddle of their own blood um and the axe which had

00:32:50

belonged to besame was found in the bathroom of the apartment um so besame so they lived and they

00:32:59

uh he explained to the police that he'd been sleeping he was bashed with a hatchet and then

00:33:04

police arrest lewis obacon who was a 41 year old african-american man who had been employed

00:33:10

in Bessemer's store weeks before the attacks, but there was no evidence that proved that the man was

00:33:16

guilty or even related to this, but the police arrested him nonetheless, stating that he had

00:33:24

offered conflicting accounts of where he was the night of the murder, or the morning of the murder.

00:33:31

So then shortly after that, Harriet Lowe stated that she remembered having been attacked by a

00:33:37

light-skinned black man um but her statement was discounted by the police because of her head

00:33:43

injury and because she was the mistress she was an upstanding wife oh man um and robbery was said

00:33:50

to be the explanation and what uh obacon's motive was except for nothing was removed from um from

00:33:58

the besumé besumé's home right uh so essentially what ends up happening is um oh no uh can that be heard did you hear it but i think it'll be like the ghost train just kind

00:34:14

of faintly there's a child screeching that was like a bone chilling yeah scream though should

00:34:22

i throw something at the off the balcony at them those little fuckers um mrs harriet lowe then then

00:34:28

starts to become like sensationalized in the newspaper she can't stop talking to the press

00:34:33

she's criticizing the police and then at one and this is the mistress this is the mistress

00:34:38

and they keep making a story about it because he basically got caught with his mistress and

00:34:43

was still married and and this is the story and this is the story not the murderer um well it was

00:34:49

all just in constantly in the paper right the times pickelion sensationalized low in her outspoken

00:34:54

nature upon discovering that she was not the wife of besame but a mistress a charity hospital source

00:34:59

discovered the scandal when besme asked to be directed to the room of mrs harriet low

00:35:03

and was inevitably denied access as no woman by that name was a patient so it's like he's not a

00:35:09

relative he can't visit her um then then his legal wife arrived from cincinnati cincinnati in uh

00:35:16

a couple days after the discovery and then which further inflamed the ongoing drama and she was

00:35:22

pissed as fuck. Besame was released and the two lead investigators get demoted for unacceptable

00:35:30

police work. Yes. But then Besame is arrested in August 1918 as Harriet Lowe, who is

00:35:40

dying in a charity hospital after a failed heart surgery, states that it was Louis who attacked her

00:35:46

with the hatchet. Louis being the brother. No, no, no. Louis Besame is is the grocer, is the guy that also got attacked.

00:35:54

Okay She basically is like he did it whatever All right But he was acquitted after 10 minutes There was no proof And it was they knew she was just kind of this lunatic

00:36:05

Yeah. Whatever. At least that's the story that I got. Okay. So then August 5th, 1918, a 28-year-old woman named Mrs. Schneider, who was eight months

00:36:15

pregnant, was attacked in the early evening of her hours on her house in Elmira Street.

00:36:21

She woke to find a dark figure standing over her and was bashed in the face repeatedly.

00:36:26

Her scalp was cut open. Her face was completely covered in blood. She was discovered after midnight by her husband, who had been returning from work.

00:36:37

And she was still alive. And she claimed that she remembered nothing of the attack.

00:36:42

She gave birth to a healthy baby girl two days after the incident. Wow. Which is crazy.

00:36:49

Nothing had been stolen from the home. even though there was cash left out. The windows and doors were not forced open

00:36:57

and they put together that she was attacked with a lamp on like a bedside table.

00:37:03

Don't fucking attack pregnant people. I mean, don't attack anyone, but like... This guy really wants to attack everyone

00:37:10

as you will come to find out. Okay. So, all right. So then five days later on August 10th,

00:37:17

Joseph Romano, who's an elderly man living with his two nieces. The two nieces hear him make a noise in his room in their house that

00:37:27

they live in together. And they go in and discover that their uncle had taken a serious blow to the

00:37:32

head. He has two huge cuts in his head and they see the guy fleeing the scene as they walk in,

00:37:40

but they can't tell if he is thin or fat. They can't really say anything for sure. They both

00:37:47

have conflicting views. And even though this old man was seriously injured, he could walk to the ambulance,

00:37:53

but he still died two days later because of the severe head trauma. Nothing was stolen.

00:38:01

They found a bloody axe in the backyard and they discovered that a panel had been chiseled out of the back door.

00:38:07

And that's how he was getting into these houses. He was just going up to the back door

00:38:11

and basically just making a little, like prying it open, essentially like chiseling a spot open and then going in and unlocking it i think someone would

00:38:20

hear that yeah but it's they're all asleep i like the way you whispered that tip tip tap tip tap

00:38:27

i still think you would have heard that i mean you would hope you would hope that right these guys

00:38:32

didn't um so then at this point a man named john d'antonio who was a retired italian detective

00:38:40

started making public statements in which he hypothesized about this man who had committed

00:38:45

these ax man murders. And he described the potential killer as an individual of dual

00:38:49

personalities who killed without motive. And he said that it could very likely be a normal law

00:38:55

abiding citizen who would be, who was often overcome by an overwhelming desire to kill.

00:39:01

And he later went on to describe the killer as a real Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. I just can't even. Yeah. Okay. So then on March 10th, 1919, so about six months later,

00:39:14

eight months later, Charles Cortmiglia, an immigrant who lived with his wife and baby

00:39:21

on the corner of Jefferson and Second Street in Gretna, Louisiana, which is a suburb of New Orleans.

00:39:26

there's screams coming from their house and so grocer Orlando Giordano ruches across the street

00:39:36

to investigate and he sees that Charles Cortomiglia his wife Rosie and their infant daughter had all

00:39:43

been attacked by the unknown intruder um Rosie stood in the doorway with head wounds um clutching

00:39:50

her deceased daughter so this axe wielding motherfucker just goes in and kills everybody

00:39:57

no matter their age uh i guess it sounds like you have to be a grocer of some kind that qualifies

00:40:03

you or italian but um just kills everybody in the like in the apartment or in the room what the

00:40:08

fuck it's super crazy okay um and again nothing no they weren't robbed um it ain't about that

00:40:17

yeah nothing nothing stolen the back door was chiseled the bloody axe was found on the back

00:40:23

porch he like does it and then just would leave it and walk away oh my god i can't wait to find

00:40:27

out who this motherfucker is okay so then the police are sent a letter or a letter gets published

00:40:34

in the newspaper i don't know the order of how it got sent but this is what it said it said it was

00:40:39

postmarked from hell march 13th 1919 it reads esteemed mortal they have never caught me and

00:40:46

they never will. They have never seen me for I am invisible, even as the ether that surrounds your

00:40:51

earth. I'm not a human being, but a spirit and a demon from the hottest hell. I am what you

00:40:57

Orleanians and your foolish policemen call the ax man. When I see fit, I shall come and claim

00:41:03

other victims. I alone know whom they shall be. I shall leave no clue except my bloody ax be

00:41:09

smeared with blood and brains of he whom I have sent below to keep me company. If you wish, you

00:41:15

may tell the police to be careful not to rile me. Of course, I am a reasonable spirit. I take no

00:41:20

offense at the way they have conducted their investigations in the past. In fact, they've been

00:41:25

so utterly stupid as to not only amuse me, but his satanic majesty, Francis Joseph. But tell them

00:41:32

to beware. Let them not try to discover what I am, for it were better that they were never born than

00:41:38

to incur the wrath of the ax man. I don't think there's any need of such warning, for I feel the

00:41:43

police will always dodge me as they have in the past. They are wise and know how to keep all away

00:41:49

from harm. Undoubtedly, you Orleanians think of me as the most horrible murderer, which I am,

00:41:54

but I could be much worse if I wanted to If I wished I could pay a visit to your city every night At will I could slay thousands of your best citizens for I am in close relationship with the angel of death

00:42:06

Now, to be exact, at 1215 earthly time on next Tuesday night, I'm going to pass over New Orleans.

00:42:13

In my infinite mercy, I'm going to make a little proposition to you people. Here it is.

00:42:18

I'm very fond of jazz music, and I swear by all the devils in the nether regions

00:42:22

that every person shall be spared in whom a jazz band is in full swing at the time I have just

00:42:29

mentioned. If everyone has a jazz band going, well then so much the better for you people.

00:42:34

One thing is certain, and that is that some of your people who do not jazz it on Tuesday night,

00:42:40

if there be any, will get the ax. Well, as I am cold and crave the warmth of my native

00:42:46

Tartarus and it is about time I leave your earthly home I will cease my discourse hoping though will

00:42:54

publish this that it may go well with the I have been am and will be the worst spirit that ever

00:43:00

existed either in fact or realm of fancy the axe man Jesus he's chatty my god so it reminds me of

00:43:09

Richard Ramirez's big speech in court where he's just like I am the where it's that thing of like

00:43:15

you know he is not just a man anymore he's like become a god and all that kind of psychotic stuff

00:43:23

yes very psychotic but also very biblical oh yeah but also the yeah and the whole thing the

00:43:30

whole time i was like well the more you talk the more the more you write and the more information

00:43:34

you give you're just giving away and you're more clues so shut the fuck up yeah yeah but doesn't

00:43:40

it seem like he has a bit of a like because isn't that essentially the story of passover

00:43:44

oh yeah you'll pass over you'll pass over the house if they have jazz music playing

00:43:49

that's exactly it isn't that why you guys have so much fun on passover we have the best time

00:43:54

no i was like this is written by a fucking a record label exec who's like wants his jazz

00:44:00

music to be playing playing who do not jazz it on tuesday night that's our new like tuesday night

00:44:06

club at whatever bar we gotta jazz it jazz and nobody likes jazz so everyone's like a little

00:44:11

unhappy yeah but it's like well we'll kill you if you don't come we just gotta do it let's get

00:44:15

through these next 15 minutes well apparently so everyone jazzed it on that tuesday night and no

00:44:21

one was shut up yeah it actually worked excuse me um but then of course as it always as it always

00:44:30

does it always but then there's so many but then's august 10th steve boca a grocer is attacked in his

00:44:36

bedroom as he sleeps. Wait, is he really purposely getting grocers? Well, yes. Cause they all are.

00:44:43

Man, what a bummer. I mean, it's so specific, but it's, they say grocer here, but I also think

00:44:49

it means people who keep stores. So it's like, sometimes it's a guy that has like a grocery

00:44:54

store and a bar type of place or some kind of thing. It doesn't necessarily mean like the big

00:44:59

thing of lettuce that's on the sidewalk per se. A green grocer, they used to call them.

00:45:03

right the green grocer but there it is people that own stores weird super fucking weird um

00:45:11

okay so then he he wakes in the night finds a dark figure looming over him when he regains consciousness he runs into the street um finds that his head has been cracked

00:45:22

open uh what if you found that see what i found that i found my head to be cracked open you know

00:45:29

when I need help here. So he goes to his neighbor's house, collapses. Then the neighbor calls the

00:45:37

police. Nothing's taken from the home. A panel on the back door had been chiseled away. Boker

00:45:43

recovered from his injuries, but he had, again, no memory. And that's every single person that

00:45:48

survives knows nothing about what happened. Yeah. Head injuries. September 13th, it happens again.

00:45:55

Sarah Laman was attacked on the night of September 13th. Her neighbors came to check on her because she lived alone and they hadn't seen her in a while.

00:46:04

They broke into her house when she didn't answer and discovered the 19-year-old lying unconscious on her bed,

00:46:09

suffering from a severe head injury, missing several teeth. Oh, this guy goes straight for the fucking...

00:46:15

Right to the face. Noggin. Yeah, they say that all of the injuries were neck, head, and only a couple had defensive wounds on their arms.

00:46:26

Most of them, he would just get in there and chop very precisely. And sometimes he would obliterate the face of the man.

00:46:33

And sometimes he would rape the wife. All right. Oh. But here, so bloody axes discovered on the front lawn.

00:46:42

She recovered from her injuries. Couldn't remember anything. October 27th, Mike Pepitone is attacked.

00:46:50

Did you ask Eddie Pepitone? I put in a call. He won't talk to me. That would be amazing.

00:46:55

I've never heard that last name before. I know. Anywhere. I know. So he sees his wife is awakened by a noise and walks into the bedroom, walks to the bedroom

00:47:08

door just as a large axe wielding man is fleeing the scene. Oh my God. Mike had been struck in the head, was covered in his own blood.

00:47:14

blood spreader covered the majority of the room um but the but mrs pepitone is unable to explain

00:47:22

any of the killers describe the killer in any way i did read something that said mrs pepitone

00:47:28

mrs pepitone went on to shoot the man she believed uh was standing there so this is a different story

00:47:35

than the end of this one which is basically she didn't know and she had nothing to explain to the

00:47:39

cops. There's another story that said Mrs. Pepitone knew who it was. And after, um,

00:47:46

her husband, uh, like a couple of weeks after the murder, um, uh, she shot the man in the street

00:47:55

and then the murder stopped happening. Uh, that's right. Yeah. Who knows? Yeah. And then she herself was convicted of murder and was in jail for 10 years.

00:48:04

What the shit? Who knows about any of that? So, okay. So that's the, those are, that's the full realm of the,

00:48:11

of the Axeman of New Orleans murders. Okay. But then I watched a documentary on the YouTube that was actually very good,

00:48:20

although it seemed very like kind of homemade self-produced. The guy that was narrating it,

00:48:26

I don't think his British accent was his original accent of life. It had a little bit of this feel to it.

00:48:35

It was, um, what's the word when you try too hard? You're an actor. Yep. It was had a real actor feel.

00:48:42

Effect. Affected. Affected. Yeah. Okay. Um, but it's really good. Good information.

00:48:48

I could be totally wrong about the accent. Also, it doesn't mean it's not real. Good.

00:48:53

That's right. But here's the thing. Every once in a while, it's like a 50 minute documentary.

00:48:58

And every once in a while, when he's talking about a different fact, there'll just be like a sound effect of screaming.

00:49:04

So it's just like almost like haunted house style. Like our podcast is with the children screaming outside.

00:49:10

I guess it is effective. So it's not, you know, effective. It's affecting. It's affected.

00:49:17

Okay. This documentary basically theorizes that the Axeman of New Orleans actually was killing for long before the New Orleans attacks and after.

00:49:29

And so they just start saying, because from 1879 to 1922 in America, there were lots and lots of axe murderers where a guy broke into the house

00:49:40

by chiseling the back door in the middle of the night, killing an entire family, not robbing them, using their own axe to do it with,

00:49:50

eating before or after hanging out in the house usually a farmer usually it's like a whole family

00:49:57

and it's kind of out in the middle of nowhere where it takes a couple days rural brutal as

00:50:02

fuck no rural rural rural rural brutal rural the brutal rural murderers yeah okay so and this is

00:50:11

just so the guy's just basically saying these aren't this is so long ago and this is like pre

00:50:16

any of the like percy you know police procedural knowledge that we have now there there also could be more and people just haven't connected the fact

00:50:25

but okay so in 1879 an elderly couple this is somewhere in georgia it's a rainy night they're attacked almost decapitated

00:50:36

and when the police investigate the crime scene they find that someone had been hiding in an

00:50:42

upstairs room for minimum of two days because there was smoke cigarettes and human feces

00:50:48

in there. So someone had snuck into their house, hung out and then waited for the night.

00:50:55

I always want to live in a small house. I don't want there to be rooms that just don't get looked

00:50:59

into. Yeah. No addicts. No, you could also, you could also like release, you know, I don't know,

00:51:07

some kind of super dangerous animal every night just to take a run around the house.

00:51:10

school. Yeah. I was going to say Cobra, but that'd be too scary. How about a cross-eyed Siamese cat?

00:51:16

Yeah, he's very intimidating. So this is, it was their axe. The axe was left in the fireplace.

00:51:25

There was no robbery, even though there was a stash of silver on like the kitchen counter.

00:51:31

Five years later in 1884 in Austin, Texas, a woman named Molly Smith is attacked in her bed

00:51:38

with an axe and then the attacker pulls her outside into the backyard, rapes her and murders

00:51:44

her outside. Weird. Several months later, Eliza Shelley is also murdered with an axe. Her head is

00:51:50

split open. And on that one, the police noted that none of the dogs in the neighborhood barked

00:51:58

and there were dogs that were tied up right next door and they didn't bark or have a reaction of

00:52:04

any kind the entire night. So it was a silent night on both of those nights. Weird. And that

00:52:10

freaked the police out really bad because it's like, usually you would just get a little something.

00:52:14

That note always freaks me out because it's clearly someone that the dogs know. Yes. And that's been doing kind of doing their groundwork. Yeah. So like make sure the dogs are

00:52:26

like, he's going to throw them food or something. Yeah. He's, he's, so four more people are killed

00:52:33

in this same way, slaughtered in their beds with their own axe. No robbery. The weapons left in the house.

00:52:43

Until Christmas Eve of 1885, a couple is attacked and the bloodhound couldn't get a scent.

00:52:52

They gave the bloodhound a thing to smell that was from the axe left behind and they couldn't

00:52:59

get a scent. And they were like the best bloodhounds around or whatever. So again, it was that thing where the cops were like, maybe this is a demon, like whatever.

00:53:07

Or I guess this was before. So they would be like, oh, maybe some demon's going to write us a letter in 15 years.

00:53:15

Oh, also here and in like a couple other places, they found bare footprints in the blood.

00:53:22

Weird. In 1897, this is 12 years later now, up in Paradise Ridge, Tennessee, the Ade family.

00:53:29

a neighbor sees the aid family farmhouse on fire and so he goes over to see what's happening and

00:53:37

not only is their house on fire but their barn and a couple of other buildings on their ranch

00:53:42

and when they put the fire out they find the entire family has been murdered with an axe

00:53:47

the parents uh the their daughter who was in her 20s the son who was 13 and a neighbor girl who was 10 I don think that him What that I don think it him That one The killer ate either before or after the killing He hung out in the house and the neighbor girl

00:54:08

they think the way they traced it, she got away and he caught her, killed her and threw her back

00:54:14

into the burning house. 14 years after that, in, I cannot see what that says, something Oregon near

00:54:24

portland it's near portland all right the hill family is murdered in their house the children

00:54:29

are murdered in their beds it's everything is exactly the same so it's it's just basically

00:54:34

they've pulled all these crimes were like an entire family no robbery axe head wounds all of it

00:54:42

a month after that um in rainier washington uh archie cobble and his wife are murdered in their

00:54:49

bed with an axe. In 1911, in Colorado Springs, a man walks into the home of Alice Bundchen,

00:55:00

I think it says, and murdered her and her six-year-old daughter and her three-year-old

00:55:06

son. And when her sister went to visit, she found the bodies. She ran outside and screamed for help.

00:55:11

And everybody in the neighborhood came running except a family that lived next door, the Wayne

00:55:16

family. And so they went to check on them and the wife, husband, and one-year-old baby had all been

00:55:22

slaughtered in their beds. And then the beds were made up after them, like the killer had killed

00:55:29

them and then tucked them back into bed. Oh, that's horrifying. So it looked like they were sleeping.

00:55:35

Both of those cases, no robbery. Both houses were locked from the inside. 13 days after that,

00:55:41

in Monmouth, Illinois. The First Presbyterian Church is not open for the service on Sunday,

00:55:49

so everybody calls the caretaker who doesn't answer. They go to the caretaker's house.

00:55:55

And he, sorry, Mr. Danson is the caretaker. He, his wife, and their teen daughter

00:56:01

are murdered in their beds. There's no robbery. Two weeks later in Ellsworth, Kansas,

00:56:08

Kansas, Ellsworth, Kansas. The Sherman family hasn't been seen for a while. A neighbor that's

00:56:14

worried about them because they weren't answering their phone goes to visit. All five of the

00:56:19

Shermans have been murdered with an ax in their house. The police found the ax and the phone

00:56:25

was wrapped with a piece of someone's clothing. It was wrapped around the phone. And the police

00:56:36

later realized that it was probably because the neighbor was calling over and over. And so he

00:56:41

wrapped that so he wouldn't have to hear the phone. To silence it. Yeah. Creepy. Yes. Two weeks later

00:56:48

in Mount Pleasant, Iowa, Mr. J.B. Jordan leaves for work. He doesn't lock the kitchen door. Their

00:56:55

eldest son is upstairs. He hears his mother scream. He runs downstairs and finds that she's

00:57:00

been attacked in her bed with an axe. She has an injury to her head, but she survives, but

00:57:06

remembers nothing. They're not robbed and nobody sees anything. Eight months later in Paola, Kansas,

00:57:13

a young couple in their early 20s, the Hudsons, hadn't been seen. Neighbors checked. They're

00:57:18

murdered in their bed. And that night, a family in the same town wakes to the sound of a lamp

00:57:26

crashing to the floor. And the father goes downstairs to see what it is and he sees a man leaving their house.

00:57:34

Oh my God. Less than a week later, and I think I'm pronouncing this right, in Valeska, Iowa.

00:57:43

It's the Valeska axe murderers. Remember there was somebody that brought us a bag of stuff from the Valeska.

00:57:50

I don't know if I'm pronouncing it right. Do you know, Stephen? um Valeska okay uh so this is the most this is one of the most famous axe murder cases but I

00:58:04

didn't realize that they're the theory is basically this is one guy because this the

00:58:09

Valeska axe murder house so it's the Moore family was it like the the murders from uh the Truman

00:58:15

Capote similar okay yeah where they just killed that family for no reason but this is um it's

00:58:23

their whole family. They'd gotten back from church and then nobody saw them for days,

00:58:27

but they did see smoke coming out of the chimney, but they just didn't see them out on their farm

00:58:33

doing their chores. So the neighbors were just like, what's, that's weird. So after three days,

00:58:38

they go check. The entire family has been murdered with axes in their beds, plus two little girls

00:58:43

who were there for a sleepover that were neighbor girls. So eight people were murdered in this house

00:58:49

with axes and he they found that the man um had been hiding at every mirror in the house was

00:58:57

covered with a piece of clothing um nothing had been stolen uh the killer um definitely spent at

00:59:06

least two days there lots of like had made food left a bunch of stuff out um and he they found

00:59:13

proof again that he had waited in the attic for two days until nighttime so he could come out and

00:59:19

surprise them and murder them. And then in 1914, in Blue Island, Illinois, a family is found,

00:59:28

this is two years later, a family is found murdered in their bed. And then that brings us up to then

00:59:33

1918 in New Orleans. And then four years later in Germany. So then in the 1919 murder, Christmas

00:59:41

Eve was the last one, the Peppetowns. Where the chicks shot at him. Right. Shot and killed

00:59:47

somebody and then the murders ended. Right. But in Germany, there was a farmer who saw a set of footprints

00:59:54

in the snow leading to his house but not away This is the craviest story He searches his whole house top to bottom doesn find anything

01:00:05

Goes to bed that night, either that night or the next night. And then he's murdered.

01:00:10

He and his family are murdered. And it's the exact same thing. And that guy hides in their house, I think, right?

01:00:16

Yes. He's hidden in their house, but they couldn't find where. all of the bodies in this were covered with sheets or some of them are out in the barn so they were

01:00:29

covered in piles of hay they he stayed through the weekend and there was no robbery so it was

01:00:38

exactly the same mo as all these other ones so basically so it's just saying it could be this

01:00:45

German immigrant because on, um, and the Voleskis axe murder house, there was a note written in

01:00:51

German under the table that was left behind. And there was another, uh, one of the women that

01:00:57

survived in the earlier ones heard him speaking in German. So there was a theory that he was a German,

01:01:04

um, immigrant who kind of did this for, you know, what it seems like over 20, maybe 30 years,

01:01:12

then takes a boat back to Germany. He's going to chill out. And then four years later,

01:01:17

he can't wait anymore. And he does it again. Or has been doing it and they just never got.

01:01:21

Yes. I just wonder if in town there was anyone who had like been away, if they had known to ask that.

01:01:28

You mean in Germany? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's super crazy. It's so extreme. So then this is the best part,

01:01:36

but I don't get how it connects. It connects in this documentary perfectly because the guy is going like this and everything.

01:01:45

And it's like, in 1994. But it's super awesome anyway, even if it's not real. So basically a guy, they have an old Navy ship that they're basically parting out because it's like done for, it's retired or whatever they call that.

01:02:04

And so this guy, it was his job to go through this Navy ship before they take it all apart and take pictures and record and basically do a report on what the status of the ship was and give inventory so they know what should be saved.

01:02:20

Creepy to begin with. Can you imagine being alone in a fucking Navy ship? Why alone?

01:02:24

And also there was some extra things where I was like, we're gilding the lily here where it was like, because the whole ship was off.

01:02:34

So he had a flashlight, but he turned the flashlight off. And it was said that he was haunted.

01:02:39

I mean, yeah, his camera. Yeah. But even still, when he turned all the pictures in and it was hundreds and hundreds of pictures,

01:02:47

he got a frantic call back from like headquarters or whatever. And they were like, who's the old man with the axe in that picture?

01:02:53

Oh my God. So then they send him the picture. Oh my God. Are you going to show me?

01:02:57

Yeah. Right. Shut the fuck up. It's real. Oh my God. I'm going to cry. I'm going to cry.

01:03:02

I'm going to cry. Let me see here. show steven i dropped the phone that is no i want to try yeah yeah yeah oh my god don't look like

01:03:16

that's the creepiest scariest thing i've ever seen in my life chills chills right what can

01:03:22

people what do people like look up um axeman navy ship that's exactly what i put it old man

01:03:29

axe oh and look i don't want there's a close-up i don't want it um for everybody else we'll post

01:03:34

this but uh it's basically you know when you do you see like a ghost a ghost investigator show

01:03:41

and they do a thing where they'll circle something in a picture and you're like i have no idea what

01:03:45

you're talking about this is clearly a man on this ship with an axe in his hand the close-up is

01:03:50

less convincing to me we're honestly like it looks like the guy's wearing like a mask of like that

01:03:57

commercial with the um like an old man mask but the six flags guy that dances there but far away

01:04:03

and it's definitely an axe it's far away and like yeah that's it looks like something you wouldn't

01:04:09

notice until you saw the photo kind of a thing well also i love the idea too close i love the

01:04:16

idea of um this old guy is so good at like evading the police and getting away with stuff

01:04:24

that he knows to like, oh, I'm just going to go live on this old ship that they haven't parted out yet.

01:04:29

Like that idea does link together well for me. And then they, at the end of this documentary,

01:04:36

I highly recommend. And again, you just go put in the Axeman of New Orleans and it'll come up.

01:04:40

It's the only one that's like 50 minutes long. But they start listing all of the other

01:04:46

unrelated, unsolved, but full family axe murders where there was no robbery. and like basically all of those qualifiers that I kept repeating.

01:04:55

And there were probably like eight of them. Additionally, they were just in random cities.

01:05:01

And I, what I would love to do, and I'm sure somebody has, cause I, they said somewhere it said they were all near railroad tracks.

01:05:08

So this guy could have just been hopping on a train and just go it. Cause he really does clearly is just a drifter.

01:05:14

Yeah. That's going from place to place. And what a perfect way to be a murderer.

01:05:19

You do it, jump on a train, you were never there. I'm wondering if there's some like, you know, German fairy tale that has to do with like all the weird shit that was in that letter.

01:05:32

Yeah. You know, like he mentioned specific places that I'd never heard of, like in regards to hell.

01:05:38

So I wonder if like there's some connection there. Yeah. I wonder if they've done any kind of like the studying Jack the Ripper style stuff about it.

01:05:46

Yeah. Yeah. I had no idea it was this I found that to be so fascinating because it is one of those things like the Valeska axe murder house and that whole it so crazy that it is a standalone murder story yeah but it could possibly be connected to this other like a just a crazy serial killer that if

01:06:10

if it is this guy he killed 61 people of the cases they know about as a standalone murder it's like

01:06:16

well it's someone they knew or that had a beef with someone or that you know they were partners

01:06:20

with in business and so they wanted it to themselves but if it's not then that's even

01:06:24

And then that makes almost more sense. Yeah. It's just the house by the railroad tracks where he felt like jumping off.

01:06:30

Sure. Like the first place. Needed food, clothes. Kind of interesting. Terrifying.

01:06:36

I'm sure there's plenty more other people know. That photo is fucking horrifying.

01:06:40

Get ready to enjoy it. All right. People of New Orleans. People of New Orleans. Okay, we're back.

01:06:51

Karen, do you have any updates? No updates. But there are some interesting theories about this case and the identity of the Axeman.

01:07:00

A New Orleans historian named Bond Ruggles thinks that the Axeman was not a man, but believes it was a woman who outsmarted everyone.

01:07:10

And her theory points to the survivors who were struck repeatedly but left alive.

01:07:16

And Ruggles says if a man had done it, they'd be dead. And then she also cites the small entry points that were cut into the doors that the killer came through.

01:07:27

And in another twist, she suggests that Mike Pepitone's widow, one of the victim's widows, and the man she shot were in on these murders together and that they were lovers and that she framed him basically to inherit everything.

01:07:42

Wow. I also have a theory, which I bring up any time I have the opportunity to, which is based on the book, The Man on the Train. My favorite true crime book and what's crazy is there's already theories and I mentioned it in the episode that one of the theories is it might have been a drifter or an immigrant, which is a weird racist thing from the past where it's like it was a drifter, a fully American drifter traveling by train between towns.

01:08:10

And The Man on the Train, please read the book if you haven't, but like it fits perfectly into the timeline, the MO, all the different things of The Man on the Train.

01:08:20

I know you love that one and it's so fascinating. Yeah. Just like that idea that there's one guy doing all these horrible things and that it can be traced together.

01:08:30

I mean, it's just it's so crazy. The idea also of just an axe murderer going unfound, the case going unsolved.

01:08:38

Like you would think, I mean, I don't know. I mean, how many, yeah, how many serial murderers and how many people like it's just so easy to disappear back then up until like pretty recently.

01:08:49

Yeah. Just, you know, it's a scary thought. Jump on a train dragging your bloody ass behind you.

01:08:55

You'll be fine. It's insane. All right. So let's now get into Georgia's story from this episode.

01:09:01

It's about William Bradford Bishop. up. may vary. Visit Safeway.com for more details. Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn, host of Earsay,

01:09:40

the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I'm sitting down with Will Wheaton,

01:09:46

who played Gordy Lachance in Stand By Me 40 years ago, and now narrates Stephen King's The Body,

01:09:53

the novella that inspired it all. We talk about what it's like to return to a story that shaped

01:09:58

his life, channeling his memories of River Phoenix and the recording booth, and why the

01:10:03

friendships you have at 12 might be the most important ones you'll ever have. I know Gordy Lachance.

01:10:09

I am Gordy Lachance. Like, I mean, even when I was a little kid, I was Gordy Lachance when I didn't know it.

01:10:16

Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever

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01:12:27

the lights being depressing randomly. We had a pause. Yeah. We have to have a human break.

01:12:33

And I made Steven turn the kitchen lights on because it's dusk, which depresses the shit out

01:12:36

of me. Yeah. I was saying that it's, you know, what gets me is I have a friend who has that same

01:12:43

thing where he has a whole system. If he has to go around that house and turn everything on,

01:12:47

like when the sun is beginning to go down, it's not even like when it's down. I have the opposite

01:12:53

thing of when I get up in the morning, if there's a lamp on it, it, it's that thing of why are we

01:12:59

even doing this feeling where it's like, no one turned the lights off last night or like no one's

01:13:03

minding the shop feeling that makes me really mad. It never got shut down. I feel the same way

01:13:10

about when I wake up and come out and the house is messy. What's funny about that. I was talking

01:13:16

about that as when therapy the other day, we kind of paste it, like pieced it together that that

01:13:21

might be why between like three o'clock and seven o'clock, I always want to go have a drink and like

01:13:26

have happy hour, like pick Vince up from work and we go have a drink and it's like, I want to make

01:13:31

this part a celebration because, but then after that, I'm fine. Can I just put out a suggestion

01:13:36

that you've probably already talked about, which is three o'clock and a seven o'clock is the

01:13:40

latchkey time where you're home by yourself after school before anybody gets home from work.

01:13:46

That's exactly it. Yeah. Yeah. It's a rough time. Yeah. It's total latchkey. Watch Keisha.

01:13:52

Yeah. To me, that time is like three to seven is all about watching TV. I'm not interested in watching, but we won't not watch TV.

01:14:02

Like if there's nothing on back in the time where there was times where there was nothing

01:14:05

on, but we'd still just sit there and force ourselves to watch like Star Trek. Yes.

01:14:10

It was always reruns of Star Trek, which my sister and I didn't like, but we were like,

01:14:14

well, there's nothing else on. And now I'm like an expert because of that. I've seen all of them 15 times.

01:14:21

Yeah, I've seen a fucking shit ton. Next Generation? Oh, every episode I've seen.

01:14:26

It seems like everything in adult life is just ways of kind of trying to give the child at that time a little bit of a bottle.

01:14:34

Shut the fuck up. I mean. Well, that's why I like drinking booze. Or anything. It's like everybody has a thing, but you're just kind of, it's almost like you're trying to go back and be like, somebody should have been here and given you this.

01:14:46

Somebody should have like, you know what I mean? Somebody should have come and rubbed your back a little bit and made you actual food.

01:14:52

That's a lot of my therapy is that. Samezers. Yeah. It's the shit that like your fucking patterns that you keep repeating until adulthood in some weird way that I'm now trying to like, you're now doing your best to fucking break.

01:15:08

Yeah. But it feels fraudulent. It doesn't. It feels like everything's going to fall apart.

01:15:14

Apart all the time. Hanging by a string. all the time that's why we like podcasts and murder because that's truth that is true

01:15:26

that's fucking preaching it truth okay speaking of hey hey are you ready for a family annihilator

01:15:34

yes ready for william bradford bishop oh okay oh bill bishop from down the street billy bish

01:15:43

real bad bish did i say that right no bill brad bish okay anyways on the morning of march 1st

01:15:52

1976 in good old bethesda maryland william bradford bishop who's a 39 year old yale graduate

01:15:59

and oh my god say that with more disdain in your voice did i say it yeah you'll graduate

01:16:05

i didn't even do that on purpose college you think you're better than me fucking college

01:16:10

You're not better than me because you fucking went to school with Ivy on it. Oh, you're a Yale-ly graduate and United States Foreign Service officer.

01:16:20

Learns that he is not getting the promotion that he expected. Red flag. He tells his secretary he might be getting the flu and leaves work.

01:16:31

He withdraws $400 from his bank, drives to Sears and buys a gas can and a sledgehammer.

01:16:39

Uh-oh. A sledgehammer or a ball peen hammer, which you've mentioned before, and I had no idea what it was.

01:16:45

The sledgehammers are big and ball peen hammers are normal hammers. Right. I believe.

01:16:50

I think you're right. So I don't know how those could have been. Anyways, he also buys a shovel and a pitchfork.

01:16:55

Then he heads home to his wife, mother, and three children. Now, if you're working at that Sears, you're like, I think this guy might be starting his own hardware store using our stuff.

01:17:04

Yeah. Going home to garden? He wants to just mark his name down. Yeah. Something.

01:17:09

Make a list. Yeah. Just follow him home and make sure that he doesn't... Someone do something.

01:17:14

Annihilate. The next day... So the next... He does all that shit. The next day, about a six-hour drive from Bethesda and about five miles from Columbia,

01:17:25

North Carolina, in a wooded, swampy forest area, a forest ranger's dispatch to an area

01:17:31

where smoke is rising from the trees. There he finds five burned bodies. Oh. The burned bodies aren't identified for a week until a neighbor of the bishops calls the police worried that he hasn't seen the family in a week.

01:17:47

When the police enter the Bradford home, they find a bloodbath with spattered blood on the floors and walls.

01:17:54

And the children room is covered ceiling to floor in blood And it then that the shovel from the scene of the burning bodies is traced back to a hard work store in Bethesda

01:18:06

and the police make the connection. You mean a Sears? No, sorry. Just kidding. A Sears Robux and Company at the time.

01:18:14

We're going to be specific. It is actually Tugly Sears Robux in 1976. You know what I'm saying?

01:18:21

I mean, yeah. All right. So police think that Bradford killed his wife, who was his high school sweetheart, Annette, first, followed by his mother, Lobella, who was returning home from walking the family's golden retriever, Leo.

01:18:34

Spoiler alert, Leo's okay. Oh, good. Okay. Mom and wife so far dead. Very much dead.

01:18:40

Bludgeoned. Bad, bad, bad. Bludgeoned as fuck. Then he kills his three boys. 15-year-old Brad, 10-year-old Brenton, and five-year-old Jeffrey were killed while they

01:18:50

slept in their beds in an upstairs bedroom, all of them bludgeoned. Here's a fucking horrifying part.

01:18:57

The detective says that in his 12 years as an officer, it was the worst crime scene he had

01:19:03

ever observed. And he notes that there were hammer marks on the ceiling above the top bunk bed in one

01:19:09

of the boys' bedrooms, which told how many times and how viciously Bishop had struck his son.

01:19:14

So in the like back and then blow, he fucking hits the ceiling. Yeah, dude. Yeah.

01:19:23

So a massive manhunt ensues for Bishop. The family station wagon that was used to transport the bodies to be burned was found abandoned in a parking lot hundreds of miles west from where the bodies were found.

01:19:38

and Bishop's also identified by the clerk of a sporting goods store in Jacksonville,

01:19:44

North Carolina, using his credit card to purchase Converse shoes the same day that the bodies were

01:19:49

found. Was he coming to Silver Lake? I know. I added that because I just thought it was so...

01:19:55

Oh, that detail. I thought you meant like we were making the same joke. Oh my God.

01:19:58

Yeah, that's super... Some articles said tennis shoes and I'm like, no, Converse. That's like a

01:20:03

specific thing because we all own them. Yeah, that's right. And also it sounds like,

01:20:08

because he was, did you say he was in the Navy or something before? Some kind of military guy.

01:20:14

So he's trying to play a different character. Sure. He's blending in. Hippie shit. He's trying to bring his hippie shit to the West Coast. Yeah. Or be a skater.

01:20:23

And that man turned out to be. Yeah. I can't think of anyone because I don't know.

01:20:28

Tony. I was going to say Peralta. Oh. Stacey Peralta. Shit. There we go. Steven.

01:20:36

I'm a poser. I'm a poser. You're a poser. You're not posing to be a fucking skating

01:20:41

fan. I'm trying to make people think I skate. Hey, bro. Okay. Comber shoes. Same day the bodies are

01:20:47

found. And it's also said that he had the dog on a leash with him. So he didn't. And when I first read this

01:20:53

whole article, it was that the dog was killed too. And I'm like, people are not going to fucking

01:20:56

like that. But the dog is on a leash and he seems to be okay. After that sighting, the trail goes

01:21:02

cold. And since Bishop spoke six languages fluently, knew how to fly a plane and had

01:21:09

lived throughout the world and possibly had fake IDs because of his work at the state department,

01:21:14

finding him didn't look good. Law enforcement tried to get his psychotherapy records from his

01:21:19

shrink who Bishop had been seeing once or twice a week for five years, but the shrink refused saying,

01:21:25

doctor-patient privilege, but it's been said that the doctor was so shaken by Bishop's

01:21:31

crime that he quit his practice, which is, can you imagine not spotting that for five fucking years or having spotted

01:21:37

it and not done anything about it? That's horrible. What's worse? I think, yeah.

01:21:45

Yeah, not having done anything about it. I think so too. Thinking that you were wrong or doubting yourself

01:21:49

or something. Or just being like, am I? But after five years, I feel like five years of, you just have to be, if you can manipulate a psychotherapist for five years, you're some fucking craziness.

01:22:06

Yeah. Also, if he was a military man, I bet you he wasn't all that forthcoming. Isn't that kind of a personality trait of you're not really supposed to be that way in the military?

01:22:16

Well, that's funny that you say that because I read something that said that if you were in whatever rank he was in and you were going to psychotherapy, that was grounds for dismissal.

01:22:23

Oh, shit. So on top of that, he probably didn't also want to be like, yeah, and I want to murder my family.

01:22:29

So it couldn't even get out that he was in there. Whoa. So that's so fucked up. It's so fucked up.

01:22:35

Oh, so getting help for being in a conflict-based business. Right. Where you could have PTSD for whatever reason.

01:22:43

you're not you cannot be in therapy or you're traveling the fucking world and your family's

01:22:48

home and there's it's rough at home or you have money issues i can't be like that anymore or you

01:22:54

got left at home between three and seven every goddamn day of the week like you were just some

01:22:59

sort of and you had no idea what time your parents were coming home and you were sick of peanut butter

01:23:03

sandwiches you were eating so much toast that you felt sick toast god we ate a lot of toast we ate

01:23:08

so much toast so much cheese toast at this day is one of my favorite things but of course my brother

01:23:13

would eat all the fucking cheese in the house. So it would be peanut butter toast.

01:23:17

We would do... My sister got really into making quesadillas, but she wouldn't make me one.

01:23:23

That was, you know, anything she could pull away. Anything she could hold over me.

01:23:26

But quesadilla at that point was a tortilla with a slice of American cheese in the microwave

01:23:31

for a minute. Yes. And then crunched it closed. Yeah, she would get fancy and put it in a pan.

01:23:37

Oh, she thinks she's fucking... Yeah. Fucking Julia Childs. She thought she was going for it.

01:23:42

and i was like clear the area i'm trying to butter some crackers like basically all we were

01:23:46

trying to do crackers i love it stacking up buttered crackers and then drinking seven up and

01:23:51

it just basically a whole one in your mouth yeah yeah i have so many feelings yeah right now all right so on march 19th 1976 a grand jury indicts Bishop on five counts of first degree murder But to this day Karen Bishop has never been found

01:24:09

Whoa. Yep. So there's this photo of him from when he was young that they all show. And he

01:24:14

looks a little bit like Lee Harvey Oswald meets John Belushi, if you can picture that. Oh,

01:24:18

it's weird. Like you're kind of like, he's kind of hot. But then he has this weird,

01:24:22

like smug, like tight, closed smile that looks creepy since you know what he did.

01:24:28

And then they made one of those busts of him of like what he would look like if he were

01:24:32

older. And it's super creepy as well. And I'm sure that he's Hugh Hefner. Like it's Hugh Hefner.

01:24:38

It's so, it's Hugh fucking Hefner. Is the bust the future age? Can you pull that up?

01:24:45

It's a William Bradford Bishop bust. It's just a cover of Playboy magazine. Stephen, no.

01:24:51

now he have no his picture he just pulls that up uh all right so there have been three credible

01:24:58

sightings of bishop one was in july 1978 a swedish woman who had worked with bishop

01:25:03

before the murders said she spotted him stevens got it right am i right i mean oh no let me say

01:25:11

it's so it looks like uh is it frank langella no um he's the guy that always plays like a

01:25:18

he's just like hey kid hilarious right yes he's missing exactly like you have he's missing like

01:25:26

the the bathrobe yeah and that's it yeah he's like if hugh hefner had a trucker brother yeah

01:25:31

that's what that guy looks like creepy okay july 1978 swedish woman who had worked with him prior

01:25:36

to the murders she said she spotted him twice uh in a public park in stockholm sweden when in a

01:25:44

span of a week. And she stated that she was absolutely certain that it was Bishop.

01:25:49

Then, and this is interesting because it's all people who knew him, you know? So in July, 1979,

01:25:55

he was reported to have been seen by a former U.S. State Department colleague in a restroom in

01:26:00

Sorrento, Italy. The colleague greeted him who had, who said, and he said he was bearded. He

01:26:08

personally believed to be Bishop eye to eye. And he asked the man impulsively, hey, you're Brad

01:26:13

bishop, aren't you? The man panicked suddenly, responding in a distinctly American accent,

01:26:18

saying, oh God, no. And then he ran swiftly out of the restroom and fled. But he started shaking

01:26:24

and panicking when he asked him. This is all like kind of confirmed that these could actually be

01:26:30

sightings. It wasn't just like rando stuff, like hokey bullshit. On September 19th...

01:26:36

It was a little, it was kind of corny. I mean, yeah, it wasn't unsolved mysteries,

01:26:39

but it was, you know. All right. On September 19th, I'm sure this was on Unsolved Mysteries too.

01:26:44

On September 19th, 1994 in Basel, Switzerland, a neighbor who had known Bishop and his family in

01:26:50

Bethesda reports that she had seen Bishop from a few feet away while on vacation. The neighbor

01:26:57

described Bishop as well-groomed. So all people who knew him well enough to recognize him. Then,

01:27:03

and I thought this was so exciting, a John Doe who was struck by a car while walking down the

01:27:09

highway in 1981, who was a person who appeared to be homeless, ended up getting exhumed after

01:27:15

a local resident thought that the bust of Bishop looked like this doe. And I fucking lost my line.

01:27:20

It looks so much like him that you are sure it's him and it's fucking not. But I think they fucked

01:27:26

up the DNA test because it's fucking him. Wow. There's also, of course, been talk of Bishop

01:27:32

being a victim of the MK Ultra mind control experience by the CIA that went awry,

01:27:37

causing him to kill his family, which is like, okay. Is that the right timeframe?

01:27:44

The 60s, 70s? Yeah. I guess so, yeah. I feel like they dosed a lot of people on acid back then.

01:27:51

Right? I think so. But that's so close to the 80s. I feel like it was shut down by then.

01:27:56

But I mean, look, if people theorize that, it's because it wasn't. And also it was a secret government thing.

01:28:02

It's probably still going on. To this day. Yeah. Stephen. Steven is an MKUltra something.

01:28:10

I knew it. That's what it is. It's totally what it is. And his mustache is a fucking recording device.

01:28:16

No matter how much we make fun of it, he won't shave it. So up in there. He fucking sets the two hugest microphones up every time,

01:28:23

but his mustache is the recording device. These are all fake. You caught me. You should hear the shit we say when it's not recording

01:28:30

and the shit we actually make him edit out. That's like, we are Russian operative spies.

01:28:36

it's true oh well i do love mklder is if if you know somebody was asking if something could get

01:28:44

solved right somebody was asking us that the other day like conversationally and i've it's always

01:28:48

like we always say like john benet or blah blah blah whatever but then just thinking about that

01:28:52

like i would love the real deal report on mklder the list of things that have happened because of

01:28:58

it yeah that's a good one like the real you know there was like the one guy that they the family's

01:29:04

like there's no way he would have committed suicide and it was like he jumped out of a window

01:29:07

right and that was i mean there's a million of those yeah and they're always like those that

01:29:12

would be good yeah it's so fascinating it's also like it's an it's easy though you know what i mean

01:29:18

like it's one of those things where it's like oh she was a runaway that's like no it's much more

01:29:22

it's much more simple than that or something yeah or that's simple okay anyways blah blah blah

01:29:28

i think it's more likely that he was depressed he was also having financial trouble and that he was

01:29:33

a fucking dick. If he were still alive today, he would be 80 years old. So he could still be alive.

01:29:39

Yeah. So everyone go, go find Hugh Hefner's creepy brother. So I, God, that's interesting

01:29:45

to be guilty of a crime and run to Stockholm, Sweden, and still run into someone that you know,

01:29:51

because like how annoying is that Right And because he was in the military he probably went to military places right Like when he places he knew from having gone there before for his job You think he wouldn though because then

01:30:06

people would recognize him there. Yeah. Of all the places you would have to list,

01:30:10

okay, this guy ran, where'd he go? He'd went to LA. He went to California. People always go west.

01:30:16

Instead, he went east and then he went to a place where like Stockholm, Sweden is just like nobody

01:30:21

really you would just blend yeah there's a lot of places you could and you know it's the time when

01:30:26

like you you could you didn't need a passport or you know your name didn't even have to be on the

01:30:31

ticket and yeah and he had a weak start because they didn't a weak head head start yeah because

01:30:38

you know they didn't identify the bodies until then yeah he was all free and clear what a creep

01:30:43

he fucking he didn't just murder them and leave their bodies he murdered them drove six hours away

01:30:48

dug a fucking shallow hole and put the gasoline that he had bought that day on the bodies and lit them.

01:30:57

His mom, his high school sweetheart, and his three children. That's almost the same as John List.

01:31:03

It's so much like John List. Except, and not to say my guy was better than your guy,

01:31:08

but John List shot everybody in the back of that. Nobody knew anything was happening.

01:31:12

He just took him out from behind. I think he might have as well, if you're going to back in.

01:31:18

Well, no, I was just thinking of like... Yours has a good... I guess they both have good closures where it's like the money was in the ceiling the

01:31:25

whole time. I know. On John Liss. No, but this one I'm saying it's the murder is so much more personal and awful and like,

01:31:32

you know, hammer marks in the ceiling type of shit. He's not like trying to end it quick.

01:31:36

Yeah. What the fuck? But he waited till they were sleeping. He didn't come home until they were asleep.

01:31:41

And the mom was on... His mom was on a walk with the dog that he... That she'd do every night.

01:31:47

It's just not. You can't find a lot of details about how it happened either, which is like, there's no like, in this room, this happened while his wife was cooking or whatever the fuck.

01:31:56

Also, what was he like, just like, if you were in the cafeteria at the same time?

01:32:02

Do you think he was like, clearly one of those, like a closed fist of a person? Or do you think it was all like, still run deep and he was just like, chill and nothing was going on?

01:32:14

There was not a single thing that I saw that was like, and you always see this, everyone said he was such a great guy.

01:32:21

And everyone's like, so I don't think he was. He could have been tightly wound. Yeah.

01:32:26

I don't think people weren't like, we were so surprised. Right. No one said that.

01:32:30

Yeah. As far as I could tell. Fuck. Yeah. So that is family annihilator, William Bradford Bishop.

01:32:36

Wow. Bill Bishop. Yeah. That's like, I've never heard of that guy. And it's truly awful.

01:32:43

Yeah. Isn't that creepy? Also, once you kill them, you're going to run anyway. Why do you have to burn the bodies?

01:32:48

You got that head start. But like, that's just one chore you don't have to do. Like you've killed your whole family.

01:32:56

They're probably not going to get found for a week. But I mean, like either way,

01:33:00

it's not like you killed one member of your family and everyone else doesn't know what's happening or something.

01:33:04

It's like you've taken out an entire family unit. People are going to catch on no matter what the state of their corpses is.

01:33:11

Yeah. It's so fucked up. I mean, it's too much. It's pretty amazing that they were able to actually identify the bodies because if he

01:33:22

hadn't left that shovel behind, they would have never gone. They would have never talked to Bethesda, Maryland, because they identified it as one

01:33:30

of two hardware stores in Bethesda. And it was hundreds of miles away, right? You said?

01:33:34

Six hours away or something. so if he hadn't kind of fucked up and left a shovel behind

01:33:40

they would have never been traced to each other did he want to get caught yeah maybe it was probably his

01:33:46

I don't think he wanted to get caught you don't burn bodies you specifically don't want to get caught if you burn bodies

01:33:53

it's just he did everything the worst way possible he really did and he was never fucking found

01:33:58

which is so disappointing yeah but he got that military edge he's like a a Bourne-esque

01:34:07

He's a Jason Bourne type. Yeah. Bad Bourne. Yeah, Bad Bourne. And we're back. Are there any updates for this case?

01:34:17

I do have some updates. The authorities are still looking for William Bradford Bishop, which is wild.

01:34:23

Yeah. In 2021, a North Carolina woman named Kathy Gilchrist made headlines when her 23andMe test led her to believe that Bishop was her biological father.

01:34:33

Can you even imagine? Wow. Kathy was born before Bishop's murdered children were born.

01:34:41

She was adopted as a baby and never knew her biological parents. The FBI later confirmed that their DNA matched.

01:34:48

Wow. I mean, like, so FBI agents have wondered if Bishop's hidden past could play into his motive for the murders, which remains elusive,

01:34:57

and expressed hope that Kathy's discovery would renew interest in this case and drum up leads.

01:35:01

I mean. That's the wildest kind of like futuristic twist for this where you're just trying to find out if you have cousins in the next town over.

01:35:11

Right. And it's like, guess what? Your father is a family annihilator. Yeah. That's a maybe I didn't want to know everything kind of moment, I would think.

01:35:21

But that kind of weird coincidence or whatever they're calling it in the press, if that's what it takes to renew interest and try to figure it out, if they can find this guy, then great.

01:35:31

Definitely. Now we're going to let you guys listen to the recurring theme that we were doing back in 2017 of Good Things of the Week.

01:35:41

Hey, one positive thing that happened. Let's get out of there. What about, so we try to end this with something positive because we don't want to end on Family Annihilator.

01:35:57

A thing that makes us happy, a thing that we love. a thing that we've noticed lately that's fun.

01:36:03

Yeah. You just shook your head terrifyingly at me. Mine is that because three o'clock to seven o'clock

01:36:11

is so hard for... What the fuck? I hate neighbors. That was creepy. They just moved in.

01:36:19

So they're like putting... Oh, putting shins up and shit. We're podcasting. We're podcasting.

01:36:24

Also, it just was so light. It was really creepy. They're trying to be quiet. Okay.

01:36:30

so oh yeah okay so from three to seven so it's hard for me so the thing i've been doing this

01:36:34

past week to try to like make it positive didn't mean you scare the shit out of you just now

01:36:38

hi little girl um the thing i've been laying out at the pool oh in the sun and it's been

01:36:45

fucking phenomenal oh that's good making me so happy and so like like i feel like i'm in paradise

01:36:53

that's really good i wonder if you had maybe a little vitamin d deficiency and you need a little

01:36:58

sunlight, your little, what do they call it? Weather depression or whatever. Yeah, definitely.

01:37:04

And it's just this thing of like, okay, here's celebrating life in a different way than

01:37:08

alcohol and charcuterie. Yes. Which man still sounds so much better, but whatever.

01:37:14

Well, it's definitely faster, but it's so relaxing when you're outside. I've been actually sitting

01:37:19

outside at my house too. It's just so relaxing and it's been mine. Okay. I guess mine will be,

01:37:25

I walked my dogs in my neighbor, the neighborhood kind of near me, which is nice.

01:37:32

Last night. And it was as if all the jasmine in the whole neighborhood bloomed at one time.

01:37:38

It was crazy. It's walking around a neighborhood and it smelled like the inside of a florist shop

01:37:43

was one of the weirdest things of all time. There's this moment in LA and it's such a quick moment where all the jasmine blooms

01:37:50

and it only happens for like a very short time during the year. And it's fucking fabulous.

01:37:55

It crazy And when you like I was coming home from something and from my from like the lift to the front door I was the smell was so beautiful and strong I was like I have to walk my dogs right now Like I need to be out in this air I love that

01:38:11

It was very cool. That's a good one. And also because I've been in my house doing nothing

01:38:16

but like binge watching TV. And cleaning the walls. And wiping down walls. The difference it makes when your walls are clean,

01:38:23

I just highly recommend. Don't think about it until someone else does it that you pay them to do it.

01:38:27

And you're like, oh. But also when you get one of those magic erasers, they really do work.

01:38:31

I know. I love it. What's it? A Mr. Clean thing? Yeah. Or you can get a Target brand.

01:38:36

It's like a little bleach sponge. Yeah. It's a white sponge that when you touch it to things, it just makes marks and nicks and shitty looking things go away.

01:38:44

I bet it's made of asbestos. I hold it in my hand for like hours at a time. Let it dissolve.

01:38:50

All of this is leaching into my system. You know what? Maybe it'll clean it out a little bit.

01:38:54

I mean, the end days are going to come before you can die of asbestos poisoning.

01:38:57

Probably, right? What if the magic eraser is the new green juice and that's the way to detox is just to magic erase both hands?

01:39:05

Yeah, every morning. I'm just picturing that. Okay, we're back. I would love to go back to, what am I, 37-year-old Georgia and tell her to get the fuck out of the sun.

01:39:20

What is she doing? Why, Georgia, no. I'm just going to lay out for four hours and see if it helps me in any way.

01:39:27

I don't put any lotion on because you want to get the rays and the vibe. Georgia, stop it.

01:39:32

You guys, listen to your future self. Do not lay out in the sun for long periods of time, at least.

01:39:39

I mean. I mean, not every day. You got to really, you got to watch that for sure.

01:39:44

Also, it's too bad we couldn't have done some sort of integration with the magic eraser people because I really, I think I sold a couple with that, the way I endorsed that thing.

01:39:53

Hey, ma'am, it's not too late. I fucking love a magic erase afternoon of just slowly walking around the house with a book on, my headphones.

01:40:03

You notice so many things you never notice. It's so relaxing. Check your door jams and near knobs of doors It wild how gross those areas get Check your light switches It the baseboards

01:40:20

I mean. I mean, you're disgusting. You are disgusting. And so are we. Magic eraser.

01:40:27

That's our promo. Yeah, that's right. Okay, so now that we're here at the end, we're going to rename this episode.

01:40:34

Although I'm going to make an argument. This is one of the rare ones where I'm like, this is the best name we could possibly come up with.

01:40:40

I don't know if we get better than Jazzit. Jazzit's pretty good. Thousand Island would work, like animal style.

01:40:47

Put some Thousand Island on it. Okay. Also saying you can't drop a line in confession. You have to know all your pairs.

01:40:54

You can't screw up your lines in confession. You have to know every single Hail Mary, every single Our Father.

01:41:01

That seems too hard. It's really hard. It was very stressful in like third grade knowing you had to memorize that word for word.

01:41:08

At least in like Hebrew prayers, you can fake it. Can you? You can fake Hebrew. Yeah.

01:41:13

You just like turn the accent on a little stronger? Well, if you're all singing it together, you can kind of just sing gibberish and no one knows that you don't know how to say the Kaddish.

01:41:23

You're just rhubarbing your way through the Kaddish. That's wrong. I'm telling. I don't go to hell, so it's fine.

01:41:30

Oh, that's right. We can also call it He Took an Oath. Yeah, that's a good one. Barber Oath.

01:41:37

That's right. The Barber Oath. Yeah. Well, that's it. We've given you all the options that you're ever going to get.

01:41:42

And you're going to pick Jazz It Anyway because it's the best title. And we're going to let Karen and Georgia from 2017 and Elvis and Mimi say our goodbyes.

01:41:56

I think I can get Mimi to meow again. Oh, yes. Thanks for listening. Thank you so much for listening.

01:42:03

You guys are the best. We appreciate your support and having fun with us. And we want you to stay sexy.

01:42:10

And don't get murdered. Mimi? Want a cookie? Mimi say it Mimi Want a cookie Not you Mimi Look at Mimi She won do it Come on

01:42:26

Yes. I talked over. I don't think she'll do it again. We can cut all this shit out.

01:42:30

There she is. Mimi. Elvis. She's mad. I know. Elvis, you want a cookie? Yeah. Yeah.

01:42:39

That's how it's done. Bye. Bye. Hey there, it's Ryan Seacrest for Safeway. Now through June 23rd, shop for you save days

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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgi

Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 60: Jazz It

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