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00:02:07
Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows with all new commentary, updates and insights.
00:02:13
Today, we're recapping episode 62, which we named Trust Issues and Ice Skate Shoes.
00:02:20
This episode came out on March 30th, 2017. All right. Let's listen. I feel like I'm going to be the one that doesn't know the name of ice skating shoes and so says
00:02:30
ice skate shoes. You'd think, but you'll be surprised. Okay. All right. Let's listen to
00:02:36
the intro of episode 62. Welcome to my favorite murder episode. What is it? 67? Is it? I think
00:02:45
so. Wow. It's up there. We're pushing 70, baby. Holy crap. I know. That's kind of weird. Yeah.
00:02:52
We're still kind of a baby, but we're not. We're like one of those old babies that's at New Year's.
00:02:57
That you're like, should that baby still be breastfeeding? You're like, that baby shouldn't be up this late and it shouldn't be wearing a suit.
00:03:03
No, no. Isn't it weird to see older babies with diapers? And I don't know how old babies are supposed to be when they start wearing diapers.
00:03:11
And you're like, is that not right? You mean the ones that are also wearing polo shirts?
00:03:15
Like then stand around with long hair drinking bottles like they run the place? Like adults?
00:03:20
Yeah. Oh. Yeah. Hey, I met a girl today who met Ted Bundy's brother. Really? Yeah. She said that she grew up like in the town, but she was a lot younger. And she said that she was at a bar one time back home and her friend introduced her to this guy. And she was like, the whole time was like, there's something about his face looks familiar. And then she said, but he also had this like, in his eyes, this incredible look of sadness. And when he left, her friend was like, that's Ted Bundy's little brother.
00:03:50
oh wow i know that's crazy now can you imagine did he have a little brother well maybe she was
00:03:59
lying i don't know i mean i now i really i'm the last person who would know for sure and i did ted
00:04:05
on this show oh why would you know but i mean it doesn't stick with me but i know he had an older
00:04:11
sister that also was his mom right i wonder if his little brother if he had one was his mom's
00:04:18
sister if it was same sit grandma right sister if it was if they figured that stuff out in the
00:04:25
Bundy family after Ted left right or yeah if it was yeah yeah still rabbit hole uh I bet his last
00:04:33
name wasn't Bundy I think it was really yeah so it was like this is Mike Bundy Peter Mike Bundy
00:04:41
peter mic or greg bundy the bundy bunch the bundy bunch come on karen let me say it one more time
00:04:50
so wait you didn't when you said those three names you didn't realize you were doing a brady
00:04:53
bunch reference until until that moment first two i did that the greg i did then you caught up to
00:04:58
yourself and that's the moment of comedy is that it that's the fun moment where you go the comedy
00:05:03
is writing itself oh that's what that phrase means it writes itself oh it doesn't really
00:05:09
there's so much to learn it reminds me of your awesome blossom moment on stage you'll all know what we're talking about later on if we decide to post it
00:05:24
oh yeah it's just always a secret yeah this is my favorite murder by the by if anyone is unsure
00:05:30
yeah my favorite murder that's karen i'm georgia we just got back from three shows in portland that
00:05:34
all are fucking awesome. Such a fun weekend. And thank you for the donuts. Thank you for the
00:05:40
laughter and the screaming. Thank you for lots of good stories and things to walk away from.
00:05:46
Revolution Hall was such a fun place to perform. In case we don't post it, can you tell the story
00:05:52
of the army crawl Yes So let see That was the second night I think so No no It was the first night second show Okay Yes First night second show So um
00:06:06
we were at the end and I had picked a girl to do her hometown murder. We call someone up from the audience.
00:06:13
And she was telling this story about how her cousin found a dead body. And, uh, it was immediately my favorite story we've had so far because it was all
00:06:24
the things that i enjoy which is her cousin happening upon a dead body in a creek come to
00:06:29
find out that's the dead body of a uh rapist and kidnapper perhaps murderer who was on the lam so
00:06:37
we were happy about him being dead so it didn't feel gross yeah no guilt about the body about the
00:06:43
finding of the body or the uh discussion of the finding of the body and as this girl is telling
00:06:48
the story she tells the whole story of the crime he did right before he went on the lamb and then
00:06:53
somehow died in the creek they don't know and uh she i asked a specific question about did your
00:06:59
cousin tell you anything about what it felt like to find the body or touch the body or whatever
00:07:03
and she said she didn't know and then they went georgia said something they went on to talking
00:07:10
i look over georgia's shoulder and there is a girl um elmer fudd style sneaking down the aisle
00:07:17
not the aisle on stage no no she i watched her come up the aisle sneaking like a cartoon with
00:07:24
her shoulders up and her knees raised high sneaking and then she does an army roll onto
00:07:31
the stage and that's when i interrupt the two of them and then i saw before this happened i saw
00:07:37
karen's face over my shoulder and it was like i got chills just looking at your face because you
00:07:42
looked like horrified yeah and i slowly turn around in slow motion there's a girl walking
00:07:48
towards us on stage and i say that's not cool you have to get off the stage right now straight up to
00:07:55
her i was just like because i'm thinking just drunk you know the beers at revolution hall were
00:08:00
three dollars people were definitely partying it was the second show is a bit rowdy yeah um but she
00:08:07
finally explains that she is the girl telling the story's sister i want to say that girl's name is
00:08:12
nicole but i don't remember no idea there's no way um finally we realized she's okay to be there
00:08:18
and the only reason she came up on stage was because she knew the answer to the question i
00:08:22
was asking in sister fashion she needed to correct her sister yes and her sister was doing something
00:08:27
wrong correct an ad right uh but and then gave us great additional information and then it turned
00:08:33
out to be the greatest hometown two-parter double sister storytelling yeah but then the next night
00:08:40
too another sister came up that was weird yes that was super weird but it was just like fine
00:08:46
it was sisters backing up sisters weekend all weekend in Portland it was great um it was so
00:08:51
much fun everybody was so great yeah it really added yeah thank you Portland we're allowed to
00:08:59
tease that we're going across the seas yes hello London and is it Ireland Ireland and they're gonna
00:09:07
to ban you now that you said it like uh no that was actually really good oh because you live there
00:09:12
right no that was scotland whatever no that's where we're going right uh it's it's london a
00:09:19
couple we have a couple shows in england this is the tease it's very teasy because we don't know
00:09:24
what we're talking about a couple shows in england a show in ireland and a couple shows
00:09:29
in australia yes and new zealand i mean we get to go to new zealand fuck yeah we're kind of just
00:09:35
like we don't know if we have any listeners there but we just really want to go to New Zealand we
00:09:38
want to see what it looks like yeah it's gonna be fun so try to if you're in New Zealand and you
00:09:42
like this podcast will you get a couple of your friends to like it so that we have at least 50
00:09:47
people at our show that'd be great that's the dream the dream is 50 and if you need to bring
00:09:52
farm animals or children that's fine we just need to fill up whatever your local church hall is
00:09:59
please yeah yeah yeah so we're going cross international we're we're like pitbull we're
00:10:09
becoming international um like summertime well you know yeah yeah summer or fall i think summer
00:10:17
into anyway you'll hear more about it and it'll be this vague when you hear about it again
00:10:23
yeah so don't don't expect to get tickets okay we are back from the intro i mean we had to discuss what was an incredibly legendary
00:10:40
experience that i literally can still see it in my head of standing because that theater was very
00:10:46
small comparatively uh so the stage was down close to the ground so literally i see the girl
00:10:53
basically kind of sneaking up to get on stage. And in that same moment, realize anyone could do that.
00:11:00
So watching her do it, I was like, now other people are going to start doing it and people are going to fucking get up on a stage with us.
00:11:06
It was scary. It was legit scary. The other thing to think about is 2017. So no one knew about how to act at a live podcast show.
00:11:15
Like it was a thing that the NPR podcast did, meaning everyone in the audience was well-behaved
00:11:21
and fucking knew how to act and only had had two glasses of Chablis instead of fucking six
00:11:28
Long Island iced teas, as we like to do at our shows. Yeah, that was more of the bad hip crowd.
00:11:34
And we were more of the people being like, let me get up there with you because I'm with you
00:11:38
every time I listen to you on this podcast. That's my sister. You guys are my sisters. I'm coming up.
00:11:44
And we like that energy. We like the energy. We just need to know what's happening. You can't
00:11:50
sneak out of the dark Also the sneaking made it very scary which is very funny That like drunk girl stuff I loved her for it I loved her And the story was it was so worth it The whole thing was hilarious Yeah So it did pay off But it is funny because then talking about we should have a live show etiquette guide
00:12:08
Yes. Like, what would you put in the live show etiquette guide now? Well, you do the whole story at the beginning of the don't do this, don't do that.
00:12:16
But yeah. You know what it would be? Put your phone down. That's what it would be.
00:12:21
Take your pictures in the beginning, whatever, video, whatever. But there's sometimes people who just have their phone up videoing the entire show.
00:12:29
And if it's distracting to me, it's distracting to the person behind them. And like no one wants to watch your video of what they're watching.
00:12:37
That's a really good. Yeah, that's a really good one. It also makes me laugh when people do that at concerts where it's like, so you're going to go home and you're going to basically watch video of a little white speck and most in a mostly black field.
00:12:52
and then other people going, whoo. And then the guy next to you being like, hey, so how many brothers and sisters do you have?
00:12:58
I get like a 10 second video, you know, but it's like, yeah, like, and you want to send it to your best friend, Vicky,
00:13:05
who couldn't come tonight because she's in labor. But like, Vicky doesn't need the whole concert at all.
00:13:10
No, or want it. Like you can't recreate the in-person experience. A hundred percent.
00:13:15
Yeah. So that would be my rule. My thing is, if you're going to rush the stage, you have to do it standing up the whole time
00:13:21
so we know you're coming. You can't get so close to the stage that it's almost like this weird.
00:13:26
And also the fucking roll onto the stage. Everything about that was so wild. She'd had a few shibbles.
00:13:33
It also makes me think that during our tour now that's coming up, I want to pick a pair of sisters for a hometown to come up.
00:13:39
Absolutely. They did a great job. We've had other sisters before, mother, daughter, whatever.
00:13:44
Like we need like pairs. Right. Sure. Like people helping each other. Yes. Because I do think that sometimes people are like, oh, I can absolutely do this because they've had a couple chablis.
00:13:55
And then when they're up there, it's a whole different kind of experience. Yes. So maybe like, yeah, two people who both know the story can tell it together.
00:14:03
Right. Exactly. Then it's like tag team. Yes. But also just I'd love to take a moment to pause if we're going to rewind.
00:14:09
Let's rewind to the I think one of the best hometown deliveries ever sincerely was that show in we were in Phoenix.
00:14:19
Arizona. The theater in the round. Yes, the theater that slowly spun around in like an arena. It was
00:14:26
like a cage match with everyone around us and we slowly spun around and I got seasick.
00:14:33
It was crazy. If you go find a live show, we only did one in Phoenix, so you'll be able to find it.
00:14:38
It's early. That live show, the woman who came up and I'm sorry, I can't remember her name,
00:14:43
did a fully formed and amazingly delivered hometown. Like she was a hired professional.
00:14:50
It was hilarious. So, you know, I guess that it's like be really good. That would be one of my roles.
00:14:55
Be really good. If you're going to get up here, be really, really good at it. All right.
00:14:59
Now let's get into George's story about the Moores murders. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace.
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That's cachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A.com, code MFM. Goodbye. Do you go first or do I think we should start over because do you want to go first or do you want me to go first?
00:19:41
Well, I went first last time. Did you? Oh yeah. The live show. I mean, don't we have to follow just how we're doing it as opposed to what airs?
00:19:49
I don't know. I think that's what we should do it's for us and nobody cares nobody cares and I don't
00:19:54
think we care that much I don't care okay great wait now you're mad no I'm like why
00:20:00
do I care like why have I been well it used to matter did it well when we were like back to back
00:20:06
that's true all right it felt like so I just finished listening to this book called the devil all the time
00:20:12
by Donald Ray Pollock which is a really fucking great book a bunch of different stories
00:20:16
of other people and they're all you know intertwine somehow, which I love. And this one had a husband wife murder team, which I know we've
00:20:26
talked about and neither of us kind of are that interested in it or like that's not our first pick
00:20:31
and it's so weird and creepy. So I'm doing one. Okay. You're going outside your comfort zone
00:20:38
of cold cases and lesser known cases. That's your passion. This is the Moore's murders. Okay.
00:20:47
So, 1961. 18-year-old typist, Myra Henley, meets Ian Brady. Ian was born in Glasgow in a slum on January 2nd, 1938, to a single mother named Peggy.
00:21:02
And when he's four months old, she fucking advertises him for adoption in a newsagent's shop window.
00:21:08
Oh, man. There's a lot of words in here that I normally wouldn't use, and they're English.
00:21:12
Like newsagent? Like newsagent and shop window. And I'm sure it's advertisement, not advertise.
00:21:20
Peggy visits him at his foster family regularly until he becomes a teenager without letting him know that that's his mom.
00:21:28
What? You know, but I guess his foster family is good. Yeah. So but he still has extreme temper tantrums and they end with him banging his head on the floor.
00:21:40
And despite being exceptionally bright, he did poorly in school. He's socially awkward, considered a, quote, sissy at sports.
00:21:48
And he's cruel to animals pretty quickly. And it ranged from, quote, stoning dogs, decapitating rabbits.
00:21:58
And on one, nope, I can't read that. It's about a cat. He later tells Myra, his later girlfriend, that he killed his first cat when he was 10 years old.
00:22:12
like that was a brag for him that's like first date chit chat for him yeah it gets worse okay
00:22:18
at 13 ian had his first was charged with house breaking house breaking um as a teenager he
00:22:27
developed he taught a whole house how to go to the bathroom oh no stupid as a teenager he develops a fascination with the writings of nietzsche and with nazism
00:22:39
red flag yeah in 1959 uh he learns bookkeeping in prison and he gets a job uh as a stock clerk
00:22:49
and he's buys his own audio recording equipment and he transfers hitler's speeches onto vinyl
00:22:55
records oh like as a pastime yeah huh yeah sounds fun that's he sounds like a real a real hoot
00:23:02
yeah go get her okay in 1961 a new secretary starts at his work named Myra Henley um on their
00:23:11
first date Ian takes her to see a movie about the Nuremberg trials so that's their first date
00:23:16
not uh not Nietzsche and Nazism yeah I mean yes Nazism so guys like would you like to go to the
00:23:24
movies with me and you're like sure that's cool and he's like kind of cute and has like
00:23:28
50s just like the back hair he's older yeah yeah he's like the cool guy at the office he's got
00:23:36
strong opinions right he's not like the boys at school who don't like nazism yeah he's got his
00:23:41
arm up in the air a lot just like what you're looking for and then you meet at the movie theater
00:23:46
and it's the fucking nurenberg trial yeah super chill uh after they start dating they read each
00:23:55
other books about Nazi atrocities on their lunch break. He, he, she starts to alter her appearance to replicate the Aryan ideal bleaching her hair blonde and
00:24:05
wearing red lipstick and so Ian's really grooming her to become a subservient and they start
00:24:13
discussing committing crimes together like robberies that would make them rich but ultimately
00:24:19
they decide that murder was more their style nice fun Ian outlines a plan where Myra would wear a
00:24:26
skies they'd abduct a child and take it to the moors where they would rape and murder and bury
00:24:32
it there and in 1963 they took their first victim sorry so in that discussion what a risk that's all
00:24:41
i'm saying is you really i guess the nuremberg trials was really the test yeah of like is she
00:24:46
gonna go with this yeah if you cry when a bunch of nazis are being hung hanged probably both then
00:24:53
you know that right you know you found the one you found the one also i have seen myra henley's
00:25:00
mugshot yeah as a blonde yeah with that lipstick on yeah how do you feel about it she was she was
00:25:07
definitely a fall winter let's just say it that way she was definitely not a blonde no it's not
00:25:15
complimentary to her face i mean i had bleached blonde hair once and it didn't look good and i
00:25:20
knew it immediately yeah and i wouldn't have done it for a guy what what did you do i also wouldn't
00:25:26
have killed anyone children children children in the moors okay uh in 1963 in july for the first
00:25:34
victim um ian tells meyer to drive her van around the area local area while he follows behind on his
00:25:41
motorcycle and when he sees a victim that he wants he wants he's going to flash his headlights at her
00:25:46
signaling her to stop over and offer that person a ride so they see a young girl walking towards
00:25:53
them and um ian signals her to stop she doesn't do until they pass her and brady's like what the
00:26:00
fuck and she's like i know that girl uh i don't want to take her so instead at 8 p.m ian spots
00:26:06
16 year old pauline reed on her way to a dance and pauline is a neighbor of um henley's who's a
00:26:14
friend of her younger sister Maureen. So she was okay with getting into the van with Hindley,
00:26:21
who then asked if she would mind helping to search for an expensive glove she had lost on
00:26:26
Saddleworth Moor on a tract of open, oh wait, on Saddleworth Moor. And then I was like, you know
00:26:33
what? I didn't know what a moor was aside from photos. Nice. So I thought I'd explain to people
00:26:37
what it was. It's basically just an open, big, open, uncultivated field, like picture where,
00:26:42
you know british people go shooting and bury bodies yes it's like a rocky hilly open grasslandy situation for miles and miles miles and miles yeah um so she wanted her to
00:26:56
come find her glove with her and pauline says she's in no hurry and agrees when they get to the
00:27:01
moor um brady arrives shortly afterwards on her motorcycle and henley introduces him to rita's
00:27:08
her boyfriend and that he'd also come to find the glove and uh then henley claims that brady took
00:27:15
reed into the moor while henley just hung out in the van after about 30 minutes brady comes back
00:27:20
alone and takes her back to the spot where reed lay dying her throat had been cut with a large
00:27:26
knife and the collar of her coat had been pushed into the wound which sounds so horrific he tells
00:27:35
Henley to stay with Reed while he goes and gets a spade that he had hidden nearby on a previous visit
00:27:41
to bury the body. So Henley notices that Pauline's coat is undone and her clothes were in
00:27:49
disarray, guessing that she had been sexually assaulted. I mean, she claimed she wasn't there witnessing it,
00:27:55
but let's fucking come on now. Right. But Henley later claims that she assisted him with a
00:28:03
sexual assault uh and she turned on that story uh he says it's incorrect oh am i getting their
00:28:10
names wrong sorry i i that would be in character got it i i see now so basically she says i wasn't
00:28:17
there and later on he's like oh no she was there and helped me out yeah got it okay okay then on
00:28:23
then the early evening november 23rd 1963 uh she uh approaches uh sorry myra approaches a 12 year
00:28:31
old boy named john kilbride at a market in lancashire and offers him a lift home on the
00:28:38
pretext that his parents would be worried about him for being out so late and offers him also a
00:28:42
bottle of sherry and he as 12 years old is like hell yeah but then they're like well we have to go
00:28:49
make a detour to collect it and that also we need help finding a glove in a moor so he's like okay
00:28:55
and then when they get to the moor brady takes the child and again henley says she waits in the
00:29:01
car while Brady sexually assaults Kill Bride and attempts to slit his throat with a six-inch
00:29:07
serrated blade before fatally strangling him with a piece of string. So this guy's just a
00:29:13
fucking animal. Animal monster psychopath. Okay. Then in the early evening of June 16th, 1964,
00:29:22
so this all happens within a couple years, two years. Then in the early evening of June
00:29:28
1964 12 year old Keith Bennett is on his way to his grandma's house in Manchester when
00:29:35
Hindley lures him into her mini pickup which Brady was sitting in the back of asking if he'd help load
00:29:43
some boxes and then she said she'd drive him home afterwards. So she goes to the moor again
00:29:48
and again. Those boxes out on the moor. Yeah. You know. I have to move from the moor Hey little 12 year old kid I need help carrying some heavy shit Ding ding ding The red flag if she don ask adults will not ask you for help that right children yes um also don walk around your
00:30:06
goddamn town by yourself all the time i mean not that that ever ever happens anymore no never uh
00:30:13
30 minutes later brady comes back alone and when hinley supposedly asks how he had killed
00:30:19
bennett he says that he had sexually assaulted him and strangled him again with a piece of string
00:30:24
and they buried him out on the moor. On December 26, 1964, Brady and Henley visit a fairground
00:30:31
in search of another victim and they notice 10-year-old Leslie Ann Downey standing beside one of the rides.
00:30:37
When it becomes apparent that she's alone, they approach her and deliberately drop something
00:30:42
from their shopping cart close by her and ask her for help carrying the packages to the car.
00:30:48
What a sweet angel. She's 10 and she's like, yes, I'll help you. She's at the carnival alone.
00:30:53
Yes, I'm at a carnival alone and I'll help these two adults. And they're like, this is why it's so creepy is it's a man and a woman.
00:31:00
And in your mind, you're never, you know, like if you were hitchhiking and a couple stopped for you, a man and a woman.
00:31:05
Yeah. You feel safe. Yes, that's right. It's the old trick of having a woman there.
00:31:09
It's so creepy. It's the worst. And also with little kids. Yeah. It's so unfair.
00:31:14
It's just like it goes against everything your instincts would tell you. It's a huge trick.
00:31:19
do you think that women it's more horrifying for women to kill children than for men like it's i
00:31:25
feel like is it i feel equally horrified at every story that i hear of people that think it's okay
00:31:31
to kill children or it like that need the like a compulsion to kill children there's something so
00:31:37
wrong with you i feel like what horrifies me more than the compulsion is the like is being okay with
00:31:43
it it's not even like like she might not have had a compulsion to kill children but she went along
00:31:48
with it anyways. So that to me is even more depraved because it's not even this like addiction
00:31:54
that you have. She was doing it for her fucking boyfriend. Totally. Which is the I mean, you've
00:31:59
known people are like, now I'm into swing dancing. And you're like, that's so lame, but you never say
00:32:03
anything. Right. This is like, she'll get over it. Just yeah, exactly. Just like we'll wait for this
00:32:08
one to wind out and you'll hate him in eight months or whatever. But now this is like, it's
00:32:12
very extreme i i bought a vespa for a boy when i was listen i'm not gonna lie i mean i thought it
00:32:19
looked cute and i liked it but i got it so that he would think i was cool yeah yeah and i hated it
00:32:26
i uh what'd you do proudly i can say that the first bad experience that i had with a guy that
00:32:33
was like that was someone who was secretly born again christian and then after we got together
00:32:37
like unveiled that really he just wanted me to say the seven magic words that would
00:32:42
enable me to go to heaven when I died what are those magic words I accept Jesus Christ as my
00:32:47
personal savior you just said him oh well yeah I'm in I was already in yeah um you know with
00:32:52
the Catholic upbringing was there like red flat like like was there looking back when you were
00:32:57
dating like obvious things well it was very short so we were friends first everybody that I was
00:33:02
we had like this small group of friends and all the girls were in love with him and then it was
00:33:05
like he picked me oh my god you're like i'm so special exactly and then like a week later he was
00:33:11
like i just need you to say these words and then come to my church with me and then i don't really
00:33:16
want to date you but i need you go to this church you get a gold star it was yeah seriously it's
00:33:20
like did you get some kind of kickback for bringing me to the fucking church how many did you collect
00:33:24
and that's when i was like oh this is this is like pathetically not anything i thought it was
00:33:31
Yeah, but if you were like this fucking idiot, you would have been a Christian. Exactly.
00:33:34
So, but I feel like I learned early the worst, kind of most painful way of like, oh, the ulterior motive thing, like the second it comes out where it's even now, even if it's like, do you like Star Wars?
00:33:47
I'm like, goodbye. You fucking tricked me. How dare you? Oh my God. How do you try to get me to join your thing?
00:33:55
You got to like, it all has to come out immediately or else you don't trust them.
00:33:58
That's right. Or I just don't trust them anyway. So anyhow, we'll talk about how I'm alone later.
00:34:05
Listen, I have all the trust issues in the world. Don't even. Anywho, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:34:14
Carry some packages. Then they needed to help carrying them into her house, into their house.
00:34:21
So once inside the house, this sweet little girl is undressed. This is fucked up.
00:34:26
undressed, gagged and forced to pose for photos before being raped and killed. And Brady again
00:34:34
states that it was Henley who killed Leslie Ann Downey. No, I'm sorry. Ian states that it's actually
00:34:41
the Myra who killed Leslie Ann Downey. But of course, she says it wasn't that she was running
00:34:46
a bath for her and come back, came back and she was dead. Just like, fuck you. You know, here's
00:34:51
the thing. Whatever the truth really is, it doesn't matter because at this point you could have been
00:34:56
sitting at home waiting for him to come back from the moors you are complicit which means you might
00:35:02
as well have been standing next to him in my opinion yeah and it's i mean yeah i agree i i
00:35:08
now want to think the worst of you if you are involved in this at all yeah it's not like it
00:35:13
gets you off the hook somehow right um the next morning they take her body to saddle with more
00:35:20
and is buried in a shallow grave. Okay, so towards the end, we're getting towards the end,
00:35:27
on the evening of October 6th, 1965, they go to the Manchester Central Railway Station
00:35:32
and Ian picks up a guy, a 17-year-old guy named Edward Evans and he introduces Myra as his sister.
00:35:42
They drive back home, they're drinking a bottle of wine together and Ian sends Myra to fetch her brother-in-law,
00:35:49
fetch her brother-in-law when they get back to the house um Myra tells her brother that uh to wait outside it really weird So basically the brother who is Myra sister husband is kind of a small crook
00:36:08
And the whole year, Ian has kind of been cultivating this friendship and grooming him to help him with his crimes.
00:36:16
And it's said that David Smith is in awe of Ian. and basically they kill this guy, Ian Evans,
00:36:25
and try to get David Smith to go along with it. Although he doesn't, he says he'll come back the next day
00:36:31
to help bury the body. So sorry, he doesn't want to be there for the murder. He's all good with the burial though.
00:36:39
Well, here's the thing. So he says he was in the kitchen and didn't know what happened.
00:36:42
But what comes out of this either way is that when David Smith gets home to my sister,
00:36:50
her he tells her what happens and they're both like let's go call the fucking cops oh good yeah
00:36:55
like can you imagine calling the cops on your sister like that but also was she always like
00:37:00
this beast sister i'm sure right yeah because yeah she must have been a sociopath to be just
00:37:07
serial killing children and she probably she probably suspects something is happening between
00:37:14
them they're being weird and secretive they're creepy nazis nazis a lot of nazi behavior yeah
00:37:19
It's never a good, never a good sign. Never. So they call the police from a nearby phone box.
00:37:29
I'm not going to change them. I'm just going to keep saying that. But they bring a screwdriver and a knife just in case Brady shows up.
00:37:35
Oh, fuck. To the phone box? Yeah. To the phone box. Can you imagine that scared that like the boogeyman's just going to be like, hey.
00:37:42
Yes. Yes. I mean, once you realize that that's what's happening. Yeah, totally. so but they don't even know that he's like they thought maybe he just killed this dude that they
00:37:52
were trying to fuck like they don't even know that he's a child killer yet jesus christ then um so
00:37:57
the morning the next morning superintendent bob talbot of the cheshire police arrive at the back
00:38:03
door he's wearing a borrowed baker's overalls to cover his uniform so she'll open the door
00:38:08
nice um and he says his police officer comes in and that ian is hanging out in the living room
00:38:13
he says he's investigating an act of violence involving guns and uh let's see looks around the
00:38:21
house there's a room that's locked he goes into the room um and when they come back they say that
00:38:27
they discovered a trust up body and that he was being arrested on suspicion of murder and uh he's
00:38:33
claiming it was self-defense that they had gotten in a fight we're sorry the trust up body is the
00:38:38
17 year old yeah and he's saying we got in a fight and it got out of hand so we had to keep the body
00:38:43
in a room right and we were going to bury it jesus yeah i thought you're going to say they found a
00:38:48
room full of gloves right hidden gloves that they had found just stacked stacked to the ceiling oh
00:38:53
no so myra's not arrested with ian but she's questioned and she refuses to make any statement
00:39:00
she says it was an accident they didn't have any evidence that she's involved so she goes home
00:39:04
and then uh ian's charged with an accessory oh no no then october 11th myra's charged with an
00:39:10
accessory to the murder of the 17 year old Ian Evan Edwards and then they request a search of all
00:39:16
Manchester's left luggage offices for any suitcases that belong to Ian Brady and on October 15th they
00:39:23
find a suitcase that belongs to him and inside were nine pornographic photos taken of a young
00:39:29
girl naked and with scarf tied around her mouth and a 13 minute tape recording of her screaming
00:39:35
and pleading for help oh god and ann downey leslie ann downey's mom listens to the fucking
00:39:40
tape can you fucking imagine that's john walsh action right that's fucked up what what did he do
00:39:46
he looked at photos of bodies no he listened to an audio tape of a little kid getting murdered to
00:39:51
find out if it was adam adam right his son was adam uh wasn't oh so he just yeah that's the worst
00:40:00
thing of all time i'm just nauseous thinking about that it's horrible so she says it's definitely her
00:40:07
10 year old daughter and then the police are searching their house and find an old school book
00:40:15
that has john kilbride's name in it the 12 year old who went missing they also find a large
00:40:19
collection of photos of in the house which seem to be taken on saddleworth moore so they fucking
00:40:25
go there and start searching them more. And on October 16th, police find an arm bone sticking out of the peat
00:40:33
that was the body of Leslie Ann Downey. You minding what an arm bone sticking out of the peat?
00:40:39
It's just a big, wide open field of gray, low grass and brambles, I think. And then you're just trying to walk it.
00:40:50
And then there's just an arm bone. An arm bone. Another site. on the opposite side they found the badly decomposed body of john kilbride
00:41:00
and then the search is called off in november because of the weather so brady's charged with the murder of evan edwards 17 year old john kilbride and leslian downey
00:41:08
and myra hinley with the murder of evan edwards and leslian downey they plead not guilty to the
00:41:15
charges that on may 6th uh deliberating for two hours the jury finds brady guilty of all three
00:41:20
murders and hinley guilty of the murders of the two people they uh brady sentenced to three
00:41:25
life sentences and hinley was given two um on february 2nd 1987 myra made a formal confession
00:41:32
to the police admitting her involvement in all five murders wow on july 1st 1987 uh reed's body
00:41:39
is discovered only a hundred hundred yards from the place where leslie and downey had been found
00:41:44
keith bennett's body has still never been found and his family continues to search the more
00:41:50
on November 15, 2002 at age 60 Myra died from bronchial pneumonia caused by heart disease And he still motherfucking alive Whoa really
00:42:05
I'm almost positive. Wow. Oh, sorry. That's crazy. You know, people have been asking us to do these guys for a while.
00:42:13
I know. And I wouldn't have if I hadn't listened to this book just because, you know.
00:42:18
Yeah. But I did it. It's so good. I mean, they're... Yeah. they're they're like one of the earliest team creeps i feel like back then it's so you know
00:42:31
you have this small town and children and people are going missing and you just don't put it
00:42:35
together because that didn't happen back then whereas now it's like you wouldn't be like a
00:42:39
12 year old's gone they're a runaway yeah because that just was unthinkable and i think when you
00:42:46
switch between boys and girls it's also like kind of a way to throw off police yes and ages it was
00:42:52
like a 12 year old boy you know 16 year old girl like it was kind of all over the map in terms of
00:42:58
probably how they were thinking totally and also just the fact that she that one girl was her
00:43:06
little sister's friend i know it's so fucking evil it's crazy it's just like yeah the the trust
00:43:14
aspect and then also the other way of myra you're so into your boyfriend that you're you are now
00:43:21
like his right hand man yeah which she argues is like no he had brainwashed me and i was under his
00:43:30
command and all this shit and he groomed me to be his which was like maybe yeah but only to an
00:43:36
extent i mean yeah that could be true but i don't think that that's an excuse for what you did
00:43:42
it's you know here's the thing whether it's true or not you still did it totally that's the problem
00:43:47
I mean, at any point you could have run away and called the police. Yeah, because did she, aside from brainwashing, did she claim he was abusive or anything?
00:43:54
It sounds like they were like, were stoked Nazis that are into killing. I didn't read a thing of that, of being abusive.
00:44:00
And I bet that if she hadn't died, she would have been let out of prison at some point.
00:44:05
Yeah, because she was so old? Yeah. Because, yeah, because, yeah, I bet she would have.
00:44:11
That's like the Paul Bernardo and Carla Homolka. She got out of prison. She's out of prison now.
00:44:18
I bet she would have gotten out. Yeah, I bet she would have. Oh, it's so creepy.
00:44:22
It's so creepy. It's so crazy. Cool. So that is the Moore murders. And we're back.
00:44:31
Are there updates on this horrible story? There are. So Ian Brady died in a high security hospital in 2017 at age 79.
00:44:40
According to a new BBC documentary, The Moore's Murders, A Search for Justice, he had written an autobiography while he was in prison. There are about 200 missing pages,
00:44:50
which is like mind boggling. And it's believed that those pages contain his account of the 1964
00:44:56
murder and burial of 12 year old Keith Bennett. Greater Manchester police say they remain
00:45:02
committed to finding answers for the Bennett family. I mean, what a horrible spot to be in.
00:45:08
And like, do you even want to hear that from him? It's just, I can't imagine. And after all those years and the other families that did basically get that, I guess we'll say quote unquote closure, but at least an answer.
00:45:24
Yeah. To still not have an answer is just a nightmare. Definitely. Okay, well, let's get into Karen's story about the guerrilla killer.
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00:48:08
Mine is the opposite of that. Mine is, I went a Georgia Hardstock style. What'd you call me? Did you say hardstock?
00:48:16
No, stark. Stark, but my mouth did a weird thing at the end, which it does sometimes.
00:48:21
It's my new thing. Sorry. Thank you. I sound like I'm slurring, but I have been sober for quite some time.
00:48:27
that's the power or at least I should specify don't drink right there's some people who are
00:48:33
like your sobriety means a lot to me and then I'm like well I'd stop drinking in 1997 but I am
00:48:38
definitely on meth um just keep it in mind everybody uh okay so when we were in Portland
00:48:46
I did the thing that you were just talking about where um we had three shows we had three murders
00:48:51
I only learned that we had a third show or at least was reminded we had a third show
00:48:56
like the night the day of the first day i was there steven texted me and he was like i said
00:49:02
so i'm gonna do this and i'm gonna do this and he goes okay and what's your third one i was and i
00:49:06
just wrote back no no no on saturday no friday okay yeah oh my god or maybe it was thursday it
00:49:13
was late for me because i was like are you kidding me i have to do a whole nother one yeah
00:49:17
no that's like man we need you and i i'm not saying you i'm not saying we need to get our
00:49:22
shit together with traveling because there has not been a fucking day when we're traveling that
00:49:27
I am not scrambling. Yes. What is it about us? We just, I think you and I both just work better
00:49:32
when we're under pressure. That's usually, most writers are like that. And are, and are so scared
00:49:39
of failing and dread work so much that you put it off to the last minute. Well, because, and I,
00:49:44
I will say this for myself, typing is not writing. So you, when you write for things like this,
00:49:51
it is reading and kind of processing and figuring out a way you're going to tell a story. Right.
00:49:56
The problem is that if you do it last minute, you're, then you're just read, you're reading
00:50:00
something you cut and paste as opposed to telling a good story. And there's no personality in it.
00:50:04
Exactly. And so, but I'm weird. I'm like, when I, sorry, whatever. No, no. When I get it, when I
00:50:09
sit down and start working on the story that I like, I'm so happy and I'm so stoked. And it's
00:50:13
like my favorite part of the week. Yes. Like getting to that spot is so fucking hard for me.
00:50:18
it's the bridge it's the bridge to doing it that's the hardest yeah that's when i start doing a lot of
00:50:23
laundry i start wiping down surfaces that are already clean i have i don't do anything oh
00:50:29
sit there frozen yes so okay so here's the thing in my panic of going third murder yeah i start
00:50:39
working on this fucking guy but he killed so many people across the nation that he didn't feel like
00:50:44
a portland killer to me okay um and i was very angry at him um but luckily he's still there for
00:50:51
me because the second we bet we get back we have to record again and so i was like well i'm gonna
00:50:56
go back he supports you that's right earl leonard nelson the gorilla killer have you ever heard no
00:51:03
all right does he kill gorillas no that's stupid that's the dumbest joke worth no no no it's the
00:51:10
dumbest name um what a bummer was he like oh man oh that's so insulting well i've read so this is
00:51:16
one of those ones i should say murderpedia is one of my favorite websites it is an aggregate site
00:51:22
where they just they bring you all the articles and anything written about the killer you've
00:51:27
looked up it's not like wikipedia where it's like here is this paragraph by paragraph of what
00:51:31
happened it's like here's an article from 2006 here's one from 1967 yes it's the best but you
00:51:38
also then in reading all the articles about the one person realize how this guy, it was like he
00:51:44
was called the gorilla killer because of his features. He was called the gorilla killer because
00:51:49
he used to walk on his hands. He was called the gorilla killer because it took so much strength
00:51:53
to kill these women. And he rarely used a weapon. He killed them with his hands, whatever. Yeah,
00:51:58
it's that kind of situation. But still, all that being said, Murderpedia works like Wikipedia. So
00:52:04
if you use it or like it, I recommend you give them five bucks because I want it to exist
00:52:10
always because it's such a great site for research for this. It makes my life so much easier.
00:52:16
Me too. Earl Nelson, the gorilla killer. Not like that. When you think of crimes of the early
00:52:24
Atonius Enduring, which I do all the time, you think the Lindbergh baby kidnapping and murder. You think Al Capone
00:52:32
and Elliot Ness and the mafia crimes of prohibition. Oops. You think of Leopold and Loeb. But
00:52:38
meanwhile, while all of those things were happening, the first known American serial
00:52:46
sex killer was on a rampage and nobody knows about it. A few people do. The Bay Area newspapers,
00:52:56
because he started in the San Francisco Bay Area, called him the dark strangler because of his
00:53:00
so much better yeah i know right because he could slip in and out of uh these houses um without
00:53:06
being seen sometimes in broad daylight oh my god and later on he was called the gorilla killer
00:53:11
because he murdered women with his bare hands but it turns out he was just plain old psychotic
00:53:17
earl leonard nelson so earl nelson's mother and father both died of syphilis before he reached the
00:53:24
age of two yeah that's a rough start that's just your kickoff that's just downhill yeah that's like
00:53:31
the bottom of the hill and then you keep on going down you're then then you're down in the sewer
00:53:34
area you're like i'm at the bottom and it's like both of my parents don't have noses um so he's
00:53:41
sent to san francisco to be raised by his maternal grandmother who is a devout pentecostal so he's
00:53:47
got a fun and damaging childhood from a Bible-thumping old lady grandmother It said he was already a quiet morbid kid with a violent temper but then and he was expelled from school at age seven for um being incorrigible age seven
00:54:09
that sounds cute incorrigible what's his name again earl earl you're incorrigible earl um
00:54:17
but he then at age 10 is hit by a streetcar while riding his bicycle he has a um a head injury he's
00:54:28
in a coma for six days and when he wakes up his behavior becomes even more erratic um he begins
00:54:35
suffering from frequent headaches memory loss and eventually migraines oh jesus um so now his moody
00:54:43
and his moody, angry periods are broken up by periods of mania in which he takes to walking on his hands
00:54:51
or lifting heavy chairs with his teeth. Can you imagine we saw a fucking 11-year-old
00:54:58
lifting a fucking chair with his fucking teeth? A little 11-year-old where you're like,
00:55:03
Earl, please put that down. Earl, sit down and eat your dinner. Eat your peanut butter sandwich.
00:55:07
You don't need to do that with the chair anymore. This is also back when everything was made of solid wood.
00:55:13
it's a fucking oak chair he's picking it up with his teeth because he's like i gotta get this out
00:55:18
oh god okay um so it's quoted as saying this is my favorite quote on murder murderpedia about him
00:55:28
as a young man nelson was a daydreamer and a compulsive masturbator you have to pick one of those you can't be both i think they go together nicely because it's like
00:55:39
whistling hands in pockets what is the nightmare equivalent of a daydream um a chronic masturbator
00:55:46
we both had the answer um also 80 percent of most serial killers are chronic masturbators as
00:55:55
children that's one of those that's one of those uh harold schecter um look out for this red flag
00:56:02
things um as a team he was a regular at the bars and brothels of the barbary coast which was like
00:56:08
the red light district of turn of the century san francisco when he was 18 he broke into a cabin
00:56:14
that he thought was abandoned and he was arrested and spent two years in san quentin for it can you
00:56:19
imagine being a teenager in san quentin i bet it wasn't that cool no um so he enlists in the navy
00:56:25
he gets kicked out uh for behaving oddly and erratically he actually was he was because it
00:56:31
was world war one he enlisted in and got kicked out of the military four times holy shit
00:56:37
And he just kept signing up under a different name and they would take him because it was like active duty.
00:56:42
They needed people. And you're like, you're too crazy to go to the front lines. Yeah.
00:56:46
We're we're getting our asses kicked over like over there. And you still can't come.
00:56:52
Yeah. And just be a bullet catcher. So he this the last time he was in, he was in the Navy and he got kicked out because he refused to do anything but lie on his cot and rant about the great beast of revelation.
00:57:06
so he was just a crazy bible thumper um and he ends up oh i said he refused to do anything but
00:57:15
lioness caught and rant about the great beast of revelation aka dreamster baiting dreamster baiting
00:57:22
that's what it is that's what it is so they commit him to napa state hospital which was
00:57:27
a very famous mental insane asylum in northern california um it was there that it was discovered
00:57:34
he had both gonorrhea and syphilis oh my fucking god yeah dude you i mean this isn't your brain
00:57:41
has no chance at this point getting hit by a fucking car you probably got were born with
00:57:45
syphilis yeah these things eat your brain his brain was just never not inflamed i almost feel
00:57:52
bad for this guy until i probably find out what he does yeah you won't feel bad later but you can
00:57:57
definitely feel bad for 10 year old girl because he did not have it good he was there's a reason
00:58:04
he was picking up chairs with his teeth so he managed to escape three times from napa state
00:58:10
hospital before the staff just stopped trying to find him which is the opposite of the three
00:58:15
strikes law um so he he goes back after the third time he escapes he goes back lives with his aunt
00:58:23
again in san francisco his aunt gets him a job as a janitor at saint mary's hospital
00:58:27
St. Mary's Hospital is where my Aunt Mary works. Full circle. Okay, so there at St. Mary's Hospital,
00:58:35
he meets and marries 58-year-old spinster Mary Martin. He's 24. Ooh, Mary. Uh-huh.
00:58:43
She's very shy and reclusive. And obviously an old maid. Here comes Earl. 58-year-old.
00:58:52
She's an old maid. Well, I mean 58. Sorry. as a 47 year old i'm gonna say yeah maybe she's single as fuck maybe she's not an old man you
00:59:01
know what i mean i don't know um well also this was back when you were supposed to get married
00:59:06
when you were 14 right and have six kids by the time you were 20 right so she was way out of the
00:59:10
window of possibility just kind of standing around saint mary's hospital staring out the window
00:59:15
pulling her sweater across waiting for a 24 year old psychopath to save her and then he shows up
00:59:20
And it comes. There he is, Earl. So he turns out she's very shy and reclusive. He makes her life a living hell.
00:59:29
He is insanely jealous. He refuses to bathe. He has terrible manners and an insatiable sex drive.
00:59:36
What was their date? They're like dating life. Like the two of them. I think they,
00:59:41
whatever the equivalent of the trials of Nuremberg, they went to see that every fucking weekend.
00:59:46
Right. Right. also Earl has terrible migraine attacks that sometimes leave him unable to walk and one time during one of those attacks he falls from a ladder at work and hits his head fucking fuck come on double head trauma they don cancel each other out now he really nice
01:00:08
that would be amazing he not got knocked back into place and um oh no and he just started working for
01:00:17
habitat for humanity just he was like the chillest bro at the beach after that that's the end of the
01:00:22
story oh my god and then she went on to kill people um right oh i just really quickly have to
01:00:26
say total sidebar but talking about chill bros at the beach so riz Ahmed of course is on my dvr
01:00:35
recording and so i finally brought myself to watch the episode of girls that he's in did you watch it
01:00:42
i've i'm i love the show i'm caught up okay he's in two episodes yes yeah him and lean it down i'm
01:00:51
character getting together i'm just i all have to say is i'm really mad why i'm really fucking
01:00:57
first of all why like she is because she wanted to make it because lena dunham wanted to fucking
01:01:02
make out with her so mad yeah she made it happen she was just like non-stop power eye contact it
01:01:08
made me less attracted to him because i don't like scrawny guys huh and he's scrawny it made me love
01:01:16
him 10 times more than I already did because I was like it was like as if that was not a tv show
01:01:23
and I was like why would you pick her why didn't you pick me I wasn't at that beach or that beach
01:01:28
party I didn't see you rapping yeah I wasn't there to make it happen and if I were there I would have
01:01:33
never been anywhere near you yeah not have talked to you wouldn't have the like balls to be like
01:01:38
that guy's gonna want to fuck me I'm gonna go talk to him that's right I wouldn't well that's
01:01:41
what I love I mean fuck I love that about her I do too it's just it was never even a question
01:01:46
about him wanting to fuck her. I know. It's just like, this is happening. I'm making it happen.
01:01:50
This is the guy that's going to fuck me now. Which actually does happen often. Yeah.
01:01:53
But the thing, I agree with all of that, but I was just like, oh, he's too scrawny.
01:01:58
Fuck you. Now I'm mad at you and her. All right. I should have never gone into that area.
01:02:04
Sorry, I'd bar. But it hurt me deeply and I was surprised because I was like, what?
01:02:08
I don't give a shit and I knew what the plot was. He was such a stupid sconer. It was so great.
01:02:12
I know, but I love that. Anyway. Okay, listen. Here's what I'm telling you. He fucking falls off a ladder because of a migraine.
01:02:22
Double down head trauma. He leaves the hospital after two days because he won't stay there anymore.
01:02:28
Head wrapped in bandages. So he's just running around on the street like a lunatic with a head wound.
01:02:33
Like fucking Frankenstein. Yes. And he goes back home. Now he's more paranoid and violent with his wife.
01:02:39
She's like, come on, fuck. Yeah. She's like, this was already weird. I already doubted it, but I did it anyway.
01:02:46
Now you're now I can't talk to my own brother without you freaking out. Like she he would literally get jealous if she talked to her brother.
01:02:53
And she's 60. So one of the articles I read said that she had a nervous breakdown because of him.
01:03:02
But there were just one. Either way, she divorces him within six months of them being married.
01:03:08
And although then I wrote, although I like that he was way into older ladies. It gives me hope.
01:03:13
sometimes i have fun as i write these things um all right so you're gonna get a sweet young thing
01:03:21
like riz Ahmed that's right but not not in his 20s doesn't pick shit up with his teeth
01:03:26
no i thought you were trying yeah definitely a stoner yes someone chill um with eyes that take
01:03:36
up two thirds of his head. Anyhow, in 1921, he turns from burglary to sex crimes. He attempts
01:03:44
to molest 12 year old Mary Nelson after seeing her playing in her basement and then deciding
01:03:49
to pose as the gas man. So he sees a little girl playing in a basement, knocks on the door,
01:03:54
says he's from the gas company. Her older brother, who's like in his early 20s, I think,
01:04:00
lets him in. He goes straight down to the basement and immediately attacks her. She fights
01:04:04
him off screaming the brother hears runs downstairs goes to fight him he he like squirms
01:04:10
past the brother runs outside the brother follows him runs after they fight in the street and then
01:04:16
earl punches this kid in the head and gets away oh no head injury new head injury um two hours later
01:04:24
earl has picked up riding a trolley car he's just like around he's in the neighborhood let's go some
01:04:30
sightseeing yeah he's like where's that super crooked street i've heard so much about
01:04:36
um that night in jail he plucks out all of his eyebrows with his fingernails yes so he's already a creep now he has no eyebrows yeah um he's recommitted back to
01:04:50
napa state hospital and stays there for four years so then he's released and then i wrote
01:04:56
what do you think happens next? A, he gets a job as an accountant, lives a productive life in
01:05:01
molestation-free life. B, he dreams to race his way into an early grave. Or C, the killings begin.
01:05:07
I'm going to go with C. Yeah. The killings begin in 1926. So on February 20th, 60-year-old Clara
01:05:15
Newman answers the front door to a man inquiring about her rooms to let sign in her front window.
01:05:21
The man tells her his name is Virgil Wilson. He's carrying a worn Bible and he's very polite.
01:05:26
Clara brings him up to the room she's renting. And there he turns from kindly, kindly Bible lover to pure animal and strangles her to death.
01:05:35
He rapes her dead body, leaves her dress bunched up around her waist and leaves.
01:05:41
On his way out, Clara's nephew sees the man in the front hall. He asks what the man is doing there.
01:05:47
And the man says, tell your aunt, I want to rent the room. I'll be back in an hour.
01:05:51
So the nephew goes back to his books and they don discover the body until in the attic room until that night Oh my God Two weeks later he kills Laura Beal in San Jose in the exact same way
01:06:05
She is a landlady that's renting out a room. He comes holding a Bible. This is so easy.
01:06:10
Yes. And being like, I'm interested in your room. This time, the difference is he uses a belt to strangle her to death.
01:06:19
And she's found in the rental room naked from the waist down. Honey. so then three months pass
01:06:26
and then Earl's cross country killing spree starts so he basically does the exact same thing
01:06:32
over and over like he'll kill a woman who's letting a room and then he like either stays in the city and does it again
01:06:42
or he jumps on a train and does it in a different city so he does it everywhere so on June 10th
01:06:47
he kills Lillian St. Mary who is 63 years old in San Francisco on June 24th. He kills
01:06:54
Anna Russell, who's 58, in Santa Barbara. Then he goes back up to Oakland and he kills Mary Nesbitt
01:07:00
on August 16th. On October 19th, 1926, this is all 1926, he kills Beatrice Withers in Portland.
01:07:12
She's only 35 and her body was stuffed into a trunk. Then the next day he kills Virginia Grant, who's
01:07:20
59 in Portland. Her body is stuffed behind the furnace in her basement. On October 21st,
01:07:26
the day after that, in Portland, she kills Mabel Fluke and she's hidden in the attic
01:07:32
in the crawlspace. In the attic, what'd you say? Jesus. Oh, sorry. I thought you were asking a question.
01:07:38
On November 15th, he kills Blanche Myers, who's 48 years old in Oregon City. November 18th,
01:07:46
Wilhelmina Edmonds, 56, back down in San Francisco. then back up in seattle on november 24th he kills florist monks and then um the next day
01:07:58
oh no sorry a month later he kills elizabeth beard in council bluffs um so he's clearly hopped a train
01:08:06
um then he's in kansas city on uh later in december but somewhere between december 23rd and 28th
01:08:14
He kills Bonnie Pace in Kansas City. Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah. On December 28th, he in Kansas City, he kills 28 year old Germania Harpin and her eight month old baby.
01:08:28
He's on a serious fucking spree. Then he goes quiet for months. And then on April 27th of 1927 in Philadelphia, which is where he was from originally, where his parents, the syphiletic super couple.
01:08:44
are there from philadelphia um he goes back there and kills mary mcconnell she's 60 years old
01:08:51
um then he uh gets somehow to buffalo and on may 30th he kills jenny randolph who's 35
01:09:00
then he goes to detroit jesus and on june 1st um 1927 he kills mini may and uh a lodger in that
01:09:10
same house mrs antwerp they don't know how old she is but she sounds old to me um and two days
01:09:17
later in chicago he kills mary siestima siestima sorry who's 27 years old so by this time he knows
01:09:27
the cops are after him they are um he's i mean he's just on like a killing spree and they know
01:09:33
it's one dude doing all of this yes and the people because these are a lot of these are boarding
01:09:38
houses so there's other eyewitnesses in the boarding house not just the lady who shows him
01:09:43
the room sure so he crosses the border up into winnipeg to get away from the cops um and he
01:09:51
rents a room there on june 8th my birthday what my birthday oh i did that at the live show too i
01:10:00
can't help it how can you not uh he actually was born i completely relate because um
01:10:08
Earl was born on May 12th and I was born on May 11th. So I was like, oh, day after.
01:10:14
But then it's him. All right. So he crosses the border into Winnipeg, rents a room.
01:10:19
And on June 8th, he strangles 14 year old Lola Cowan, who is selling paper flowers door to door to help her very impoverished family.
01:10:31
He stuffs her body under the bed, leaves that boarding house. And the next day he's wandering around the same neighborhood in Winnipeg and he sees Emily Patterson, who's 35, cleaning her house.
01:10:45
And he somehow gets himself inside her house. He strangles her to death, rapes and mutilates her dead body and stuffs her under the bed and leaves without being seen.
01:10:58
So she's reported missing by her husband. and that night when her husband goes to go to sleep he kneels down next to the bed to pray for
01:11:09
strength and to pray to find his wife and when he goes to stand up his leg catches the bedspread
01:11:15
and he looks down and sees his wife's wool sweater sticking out from underneath the bed
01:11:21
so he reaches underneath it and touches the dead body of his dead mutilated wife oh my god
01:11:30
If I didn't say dead so many times, that would have been a really well-told kind of build-up.
01:11:36
Well, that's this podcast. I mean, isn't that who we really are deep down? Dead, dead, dead.
01:11:42
So by the time Mr. Patterson calls the police and says that he has found his wife, the body
01:11:49
of Lola Cowan has also been found. And the same morning of Mrs. Patterson's murder, Earl left the house, went down, sold
01:12:00
his clothes at a secondhand store, took the money that he got for those clothes and goes down to a
01:12:07
barber to get a shave. And when he sat in the chair, the barber had noticed that Earl had blood
01:12:12
in his hair. So when the story of these murders comes out, the barber goes to the police and tells
01:12:19
the story, gives the description, as does all of the people that live in the boarding house
01:12:24
where Lola Cowan's body was found because there's all kinds of people that saw that guy who stayed in that room.
01:12:33
So at this point, between the barber's description, the eyewitness accounts from the other boarding house,
01:12:39
Earl Nelson's likeness is distributed across every province and border town in Canada
01:12:43
and there's a $1,500 reward posted for his capture. And Earl is arrested hopping onto a train.
01:12:51
So here's the thing. he is a master escape artist so once again he escapes from jail yes he's he pick he can pick
01:13:00
any lock so they had taken his shoes socks and belt when they put him into the jail cell so he
01:13:06
escapes with none of those things and that night he finds a barn he hides in the barn and in this
01:13:11
barn he finds an old moth-eaten sweater and a pair of ice skates so he pulls the blades off the ice
01:13:18
skates and makes the ice skates into shoes oh my god because he doesn't have any shoes
01:13:23
you love it i fucking love it so because he's crazy so then he goes when the next morning he
01:13:31
leaves that barn and just goes fucking walking out and he ends up bubbing a cigarette from a guy
01:13:37
and chatting with him for a while because he doesn't think he can get caught because he's
01:13:42
now been murdering women for a fucking year straight yeah and he's standing around smoking
01:13:47
and chatting in ice skate shoes and the guy's like what up crazy and calls the cops yeah can you
01:13:55
just what if someone you knew just showed up in ice skate shoes to a party also where it was like
01:14:03
he pulls the blades out so was he walking on was still was there like that one rim down at the
01:14:09
bottom and there were no there's no way they were his size yes like what are the chances of finding
01:14:14
like a size 10 fucking ice skating shoes perfect ice skate shoes no just imagine i just want a
01:14:19
picture of friend clomping over he's just he's he's like he's walking down a gravel road in ice
01:14:26
skate shoes perfect earl you fucking idiot all right become an accountant you dumbass dumbass
01:14:32
so um so that this smoking guy of course alerts the authorities earl's recaptured he's taken back
01:14:40
into custody he's tried uh he's after less than an hour of deliberation convicted of emily patterson
01:14:48
and lola cowen's murders and he's sentenced to hang in winnipeg on january 13th 1928 one report
01:14:55
said he struggled for 11 minutes before he died uh with that hanging but then another said he died
01:15:01
instantaneously and then made a very specific note of saying how how why people would die um
01:15:09
take too long to die if the rope was too short i think they would do that a lot for people they
01:15:13
wanted to suffer yeah because what you want to happen when you hang someone is for their neck
01:15:18
to break yeah but if you it's too short right and they fall their neck doesn't break they just
01:15:24
slowly fucking choke to death yeah sounds horrifying yeah either way or if it's too
01:15:30
long it's they're like the snap doesn't happen and this guy uh by the time they catch him and
01:15:36
know who he is and what his uh history is the dark strangler gorilla killer is they're like i don't
01:15:44
know maybe make that thing seven feet long do you know they did that in nuremberg when they uh killed
01:15:50
a bunch of the ex-nazis they made they gave them the long rope special gave some of them they
01:15:56
purposely gave some you know 15 minutes of choking to death yeah i mean i watched Nuremberg movies too And on your your Vince first date
01:16:08
On our first date. I knew it. I knew you two were up to no good. Earl is suspected of more murders that didn't fit the gorilla killer,
01:16:17
dark strangler MO because of those two cooling off periods. So after his first two murders,
01:16:23
there were three months before that spree started. and they think that he killed other women just not either not old or not landladies or not
01:16:32
strangled i'm trying to know what he looks like what his personality was like they just said he
01:16:38
was scary his family members were scared of him and that that um aunt that he would go back and
01:16:43
live with they were like they said he was like a big kid and he was a big violent kid so he kind
01:16:49
of couldn't be reasoned with yeah so they just did whatever he wanted and hoped he would leave
01:16:53
was what the aunt said. So the family was just totally scared of him. So apparently it was just super violent
01:17:00
and weird as fuck. Aggressive. There's actually a really good story of the aunt that time when he got out of jail,
01:17:09
escaped from Napa State Mental Hospital. He showed up at her window one night as it was raining.
01:17:18
And she said he turned, she turned around and saw, she said his eyes were black and he had a really weird hat on and he was just staring through the window in the rain and it
01:17:27
scared the living shit out of her so she let him in but she basically convinced him you better leave
01:17:32
because they're going to come here first to look for you and she just got him to leave as soon as
01:17:36
possible can you imagine like it scared her and then even when she realized she knew who it was
01:17:41
she was still scared out of her fucking mind it's like oh okay it's just you yeah no it's like oh
01:17:47
fuck it's you yeah oh my god okay um yeah so he's could possibly i think they said between 20 and 26
01:17:54
confirmed victims but they think there could be many more because he was also yeah all across the
01:18:01
nation and up into canada and uh harold schecter who's wrote written so many great true crime books
01:18:07
um there's a book he wrote called bestial that he where he talks about um earl wow earl leonard
01:18:15
nelson the gorilla killer amazing i've never fucking heard of that me either and that's huge
01:18:20
yeah the first sexual serial killer yeah i mean in america right okay is just because i thought
01:18:28
the same thing where there was that guy peter curtain in germany there's a couple other ones
01:18:33
but this guy was like the first one they think they know of in america that's a lot of fucking
01:18:38
people yeah dude a lot of old ladies just trying to rent a room oh man uh well thank you no thank you
01:18:51
and we're back karen any updates on this awful story there are first of all the update is
01:19:00
skate shoes was from that guy yeah it's one of my favorite details of any case is
01:19:08
escaping, being naked, running, and then making skates out of, like, stealing ice skates from
01:19:16
somewhere and making skate shoes. It's so funny. I mean, it's just insane. So in 2022, author Alvin
01:19:25
Esau wrote a book about this case and the various political and professional issues that arose in
01:19:31
the pretrial, the trial, and the post-trial periods. And it spotlights the clash between
01:19:36
Earl Nelson's court-appointed defense attorney and psychiatrist, and even the role of Canada's
01:19:41
so-called official hangman. It also highlights issues about the social construction of serial
01:19:47
killers, you know, debates about capital punishment, psychopathy, the scope of the insanity defense,
01:19:53
the effect of pretrial publicity, and a trial being, quote-unquote, public entertainment.
01:20:00
Right. The last which I that sounds fascinating I mean like what a book that digs into all those things that basically so many true crime podcasts talk about Totally At the time Earl Leonard Nelson was considered
01:20:13
the deadliest American serial killer. He has since been dethroned by the horrifying Sam Little.
01:20:21
Sam Little got covered in episode 167. But yeah. I mean, that's such a huge case and so many
01:20:29
insights for something that you I haven't heard about it since then since you covered it so let's
01:20:34
head back in guys and listen to our good things of the week should we say a thing we like uh yeah
01:20:44
let me think if I have anything didn't you say you were watching a show you really like yeah but
01:20:48
I can't find the name of it was it um fiction or non-fiction it was non-fiction it was like
01:20:55
different kind of deaths it's really cool but i can't remember i'll find out for next week
01:21:00
okay what about you you say something and i'll think of something oh okay um fuck well
01:21:07
um i'll say this when we were in portland i got to hang out with my friend stacy who you met
01:21:13
and who is the greatest she runs a place called curious comedy theater in portland if you live
01:21:20
there. They have improv shows there. They have standup shows there. Lots of cool standups perform
01:21:26
there. I think Ron Lynch is going to be there next. She books really awesome people. And we just had a
01:21:31
really great time hanging out and it made my visit in Portland. It's just nice to have friends and
01:21:40
that and Stacey and my friend Jason Lopez, who I have known since I was 20. We used to work at
01:21:46
the gap together we used to get drunk in the castro together he's one of my oldest friends and
01:21:51
he was there um both nights actually i love that well i can't okay well i guess mine is similar
01:21:57
in that like this is the first time vince came with me on a weekend tour and it was just like
01:22:04
i it just meant so much to me to have him there and have his support and just like hang out with
01:22:10
him and fuck man I'm so I have just blown away by him and I just want him to come with us all the
01:22:17
time and he has to come with us it was so great and I've I just love having him around I do too
01:22:22
my husband probably should but but that yeah it was a really awesome experience having him there
01:22:27
and you know how much fucking traveling anxiety I have and how much I hate leaving the house and
01:22:31
how scared I get and how worried I get and having him there just kind of alleviated all of it except
01:22:37
missing the cats, but it alleviated all of that. And it made it such a fun time for me instead of
01:22:44
like an anxious, scary time. Yeah. You were free to kind of just have your fun and do,
01:22:49
do it instead of, I think, I mean, it's not like you seemed insanely different than any other time,
01:22:56
but, but it is nice to know that then you don't have all those worries on your shoulders and you
01:23:01
can just kind of have fun. Yeah. It was nice. I mean, yes, I'm codependent, but so what it works for me lots people are also that's not codependent you just have a great
01:23:11
husband that you're grateful for my therapist says it's not codependency it's interdependency
01:23:15
and if it works for you it's fine i like interdependency i want a slice of interdependency
01:23:21
interdependency is good yeah it's it's lovely and he's i mean he's the best he really is yeah
01:23:27
he's i feel similar to him that you do i might as well tell you now You guys get along so well.
01:23:36
It's cool to go in the other room and to get ready and hear you guys cracking up.
01:23:39
Yes. I dig it. Well, also, he just knows his shit, too. He has so much experience in performing.
01:23:45
He has experience in merch sales. He has experience in everything. He does. He's smart.
01:23:50
Vince Abrel, he's got a podcast called We Watch Wrestling. Yeah, get into it if you watch wrestling or want to.
01:23:59
Yay. Yay. That's happy. That's a good one. Other people. Yay. Making us happy. Yeah we like people And thank you to everyone who came to those Portland shows We had such a great time We got so many good presents thank you for coming to say hi after couldn we say that someone made uh catnip toys of fucking a bunch of serial killers
01:24:20
yes and they're incredible and i'm put them on our instagram and i'm not giving them to the cats
01:24:24
because they're just so fucking cool yeah those are keepers can't get yeah they're incredible
01:24:28
um i think that it's not the same person but i also got a couple of dog toys that were
01:24:33
they were slip little mini slippers a neon green mini slipper and a hot pink and george and frank
01:24:39
have already destroyed both of them they were very excited to get them yeah i love it i am
01:24:44
okay we're back it's so funny to hear me talk about how glad i was to have vince there but
01:24:52
just like he never didn't come again to a live show yeah he then got hired on as a part of the
01:24:58
staff. And he'll be with me this tour too, not as staff, thank God, as my husband, which is just
01:25:04
a much better place mentally for both of us to be. So I'm just happy to have him back there
01:25:10
hanging out with me. And yeah, I can't go without him. He's my emotional support husband.
01:25:17
Yeah, it's nice. I like the fact that you were trying to think of good things and you're like,
01:25:22
I can't remember the name of the show I like. It's just like, we're really trying to turn the
01:25:28
end of every episode so nobody feels bad and it just like sometimes it's too hard to do what could
01:25:33
it be it's it's non-fiction with different kinds of death what on earth could it be literally all
01:25:39
of the programming on the id channel perhaps anything anything on these days every single
01:25:46
channel so this episode was originally titled trust issues and ice skate shoes it's a pretty
01:25:52
good one but if we were naming it today maybe we would call it like pitbull because we were
01:25:57
going on tour internationally and we just got to announce that. And then we could do Hardstock,
01:26:04
of course, which is my last name if you're wrong in pronouncing it. If you're slurring and non-meth.
01:26:11
Or we could do Yes, I'm Codependent, which is the whole discussion about what you just discussed
01:26:15
and your husband. Still am. And I'm proud of it. Proud of it. Yeah. All right. Well,
01:26:21
thank you guys so much for listening to this episode of Rewind. We're going to let us back
01:26:26
then say goodbye. Oh, you guys are the greatest. Yes, thank you so much. Thank you so much for listening
01:26:34
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