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Terms and conditions apply. See Pandora.net for more details. Goodbye. Goodbye. Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.
00:02:06
That's right. Every Wednesday we recap our old shows with all new commentary, updates, and insights. You are welcome.
00:02:14
Today we're recapping episode 63. We're getting so close to 100, which we named Stephen's Tuxedo.
00:02:20
So this episode came out April 6th, 2017, just a hundred years ago. Let's listen to the intro of episode 63 in 2017.
00:02:37
Steven is looking at his knobs, very concerned, intently and concerned, almost like a DJ.
00:02:45
He did look like Steve Aoki, kind of. He looked like a Las Vegas DJ. Totally. being like what about the treble that's me what about the bass have you done any teaching
00:02:57
steven in las vegas can't say i have but it's the dream you know is that is that where you're aiming
00:03:02
is that the goal to be on one of those billboards for haka son yes oh dj steve what would what would
00:03:10
what's the better dj name for steven dj mustache dj stash oh shit dj stash coming this fall
00:03:19
um yeah what if it's elvis and and steven elvis is the headwinder shove elvis into this this is
00:03:27
steven's project for las vegas sorry steven elvis gets up and the moves like scratches the record
00:03:34
himself yeah oh elvis anything to say about that he came up to the mic and he did on the mic he's
00:03:41
about to fucking elvis is the emcee with a lot of intent steven is the dj elvis is the emcee um
00:03:47
Speaking of Elvis and Stephen, we have a corrections corner because last week, glaringly missing from the episode was both Stephen and Elvis.
00:03:58
Because Stephen thinks he can take a fucking vacation and fucking walk away from this thing.
00:04:04
I knew it. I thought we were going to give you a shit about it. Stephen, the unpaid intern that does the most work of anyone on this podcast.
00:04:12
He thinks he can go visit his mother. he can visit family that he can stay behind in portland nope do whatever he wants in portland
00:04:21
don't worry he begged us to come back and we were like we'll talk we'll talk it through yeah
00:04:26
so this is his trial episode yeah and elvis like revolted because he was like well
00:04:31
so well that means we we recorded at the feral audio studios and like when i got there i was
00:04:37
like wait a minute elvis isn't here so he didn't he wasn't on either but don't worry he's fine
00:04:43
A lot of concern, a lot of social media concern for Elvis. He's very healthy. He's here in front of us flicking his tail around as we speak.
00:04:52
Yeah. And they were like, are Georgia and Karen okay? Because they're not yelling at Steve in this episode.
00:04:56
Yeah. They're like, this is all very uncomfortable. But everyone's fine. No, somebody was like, does your mom yell at you like Karen?
00:05:05
Do you miss it? Yeah, of course. Did you miss getting reprimanded for shit that you had nothing to do with?
00:05:11
for shit that is clearly our fault. I did do a My Favorite Murder-related activity.
00:05:18
I sent you guys pictures. I went to Klein Falls, which was the subject of one of the live stories.
00:05:23
Yes. Which was like, it was eerie because I'd never done anything like that, like visited the site of something.
00:05:29
But my mom is like, oh, it's just up the road from where I live. I'm like, okay, I guess I'll take pictures
00:05:35
because people might want to see this. It changes the view when you know that someone got fucking bludgeoned by a hatchet there.
00:05:42
So crazy. Yeah. Well, welcome back, Steven. Thank you. Yeah, we're glad you're back.
00:05:47
Yeah. We're glad you're back. I do have a thing that it's not, it's neither, it a new corner but it almost like an announcement corner but it just feels like I heard from enough people online you and I have talked about it enough So this feels like a thing that just needs to be said which is the more like
00:06:05
this. Um, we love touring. We love doing live shows. We have the best time. It is such an
00:06:14
amazing thing to come out to a wall of energy and people's positivity. Um, it's the best 99%
00:06:23
of the people that go to our shows and participate in our shows are lovely, joyous people who are
00:06:30
having a great time. We heard from a bunch of people from Portland who didn't have the best
00:06:36
time at a couple of those shows because there were people around them that were yelling so much at us
00:06:42
the entire show. And there has been a thought that has been floated in the community that we like it
00:06:51
when people yell at us from the audience during the show, because then it's a chance for me to
00:06:58
yell at people or for us to make jokes about it. And just for corrections, just no hard feelings.
00:07:04
We've always had a great time. We will continue to have a great time. But just so you know,
00:07:09
we don't like it when you yell at us at all during the show. And it's gotten to a point now
00:07:14
where we just have to completely ignore people. There was a show in Portland that was crazy.
00:07:18
there were people in the audience that were yelling at us literally the entire time. And it
00:07:25
was, there were people around them bumming out. So we understand. What do we do? We can't,
00:07:30
if we say something to them, then that they'll keep doing it. But we don't say anything. We don't
00:07:35
say anything. What we do is this, we let people know that we love your energy, that we love that
00:07:41
you want to participate, but please don't tell yourself, we want you to yell at us because that
00:07:47
is not true at all. It's never been true. And for me being a standup comic for 20 years,
00:07:54
we, when you get a heckler in an audience, you shut the heckler down because that's how you
00:08:00
perform a show of comedy. That's how you keep in control of the crowd, but you don't want to be
00:08:06
heckled. So just because comedy comes out of it doesn't mean that's a positive experience for
00:08:11
anybody. And it certainly ruins the time of the people around you. Like there was a couple
00:08:17
people during one of those shows and it was just constant commentary the whole time and it's not
00:08:23
pleasant and we now just ignore it as someone who's kind of new at this whole onstage thing
00:08:28
it's really distracting to like to keep being distracted by this when I'm trying to like
00:08:34
concentrate on being a good performer and telling my story well and not being nervous
00:08:39
and you know sitting up straight not accidentally flashing my underwear and you know well and we
00:08:46
We really have worked. It's not like anyone can say this is any kind of like we're not doing crowd work.
00:08:54
We are especially by the time we sit down and we're reading our stories. We have a presentation that we want to give to everybody and that everybody wants to hear.
00:09:02
99.5% of the people in the room want to hear what we're saying. So if you are the person that got drunk and couldn't stop yelling or you thought it would be funny to yell or talk to us,
00:09:14
Just know, no, you know, no one's mad at you. Everything's fine. But yeah, we absolutely don't want that to be happening.
00:09:23
So just as clarity, it seems like there was people in the audience in Portland who were
00:09:28
upset because they paid good money and they waited just as long and they're just as big
00:09:32
of a fan as anybody going crazy who can't control themselves and yell the whole time.
00:09:37
Well, there's people around you who are just as big of a fan and yet they're controlling
00:09:42
themselves. We understand where it's coming from. And believe me, I saw when I saw the kids in the hall live at the UCLA theater, I wanted to scream chicken lady the entire time.
00:09:53
I wanted them to know what I like. I wanted them to know what was in my mind and heart.
00:09:57
I wanted them to understand how loyal you were. Yeah. Because it's a big deal to me.
00:10:02
It meant a lot to me. So honestly, the fact that there are people having those feelings toward us, it's my dream come true.
00:10:09
It's, it's, we take it the way you mean it, but we would love to not have to deal with it.
00:10:15
You being there is enough. Can I do new podcasts that I like corner? Please. Um, but I'm worried. Okay. So I found this, I found this podcast because I was,
00:10:24
we're going to Milwaukee and I was doing a lot of research into Milwaukee murders. So stop me if
00:10:30
you're working on this. Oh, I'm not. I'm going to stop you by telling you I'm not working on anything.
00:10:38
Go for it. Great. So I found this one because it was such an interesting story. And I'm like,
00:10:44
how have I never heard about this before? And then I, as I do with every story that I want to read,
00:10:49
I put in the name and podcast because I don't want like sword and scale to have done it a week ago.
00:10:54
And I seem like a fucking asshole. So I did this one and I found this podcast called Unsolved.
00:10:59
And it's about this kidnapping and murder of this kid named John Zira back in 1976.
00:11:08
six and they never found the guy, but they maybe found this, there's all these suspects. And of
00:11:13
course it's, it's just like the Johnny Gosch story where it's like, look how bad this was bungled
00:11:17
because we didn't know how to find people. And there's two different districts and they interviewed
00:11:23
people and didn't follow through. And then this guy later turns out to be this child molester.
00:11:30
And is it him? Isn't it him? Is it not him? But it's a good podcast and it's a, every episode is
00:11:36
really short and it's by another awesome female investigative journalist, which I'm really
00:11:41
stoked that there's so many of those lately. There's so many now. So many. And you know, so it gives it a little bit of, yeah.
00:11:48
So it's a good one. So Unsolved. Unsolved. Yeah. And then you were telling me about one that I started listening to called...
00:11:54
Hollywood and Crime Yeah Yeah What that one Okay So Hollywood and Crime is about and I did a thing Finally I thought I pre it out and downloaded all the episodes before I got on the
00:12:08
plane. So I don't do that. It makes me crazy. You get on the plane. You're like, fine, I'll listen to
00:12:12
the thing. Now you haven't downloaded it. You can't know. Uh, that being said, see, as we grow
00:12:18
and change, I pre-downloaded eight episodes of Hollywood and crime. And I was so proud, filled
00:12:24
with pride and uh what it is is during the black dahlia murder which happened in 1944
00:12:33
four six nine something seven um it happened in the 40s great it definitely happened in the 40s
00:12:44
steven will jump on it um but the interesting thing is there were other female murder mutilations
00:12:52
around Los Angeles at the same time that people don't talk about. And so it strings together all of these different cases
00:13:00
and it's unbelievable. And how they're related. I only listened to like 10 minutes of the first episode
00:13:04
and already it was like, they both worked at the same fucking nightclub. Yes. There was definitely, at least I'm,
00:13:11
I think I was up to the fourth episode and I'm like, there's a hundred percent like a slashy face killer in Los Angeles.
00:13:17
And it was because it was during- The slashy face killer. The slashy face killer.
00:13:21
World War II, they don't, that's the thing about it. I was thinking is like, there's so much shit during World War II that nobody paid attention
00:13:28
to because the news was filled with the World War II. World War II constantly. And most of the boys were being shipped out and coming back.
00:13:35
And that whole thing around, there was a thing called the Hollywood Canteen, which was where
00:13:39
the Formosa down on Formosa, I think, or somewhere in Hollywood where active duty soldiers would
00:13:48
go and they would get to dance with actresses like Betty Davis used to run it and so you could
00:13:54
go there and like I think that alcohol wasn't allowed and you couldn't like have any romantic
00:14:00
like romance wasn't going to be but like you'd pay for a slow dance or any kind of dance well I
00:14:05
don't think you had to pay because because you were that was the whole idea is like if you're
00:14:08
active duty but you're on leave you can come to the Hollywood canteen and like basically party
00:14:13
with celebrities and it's all on us and all the ladies thought they were like doing a service for
00:14:18
the servicemen that's right and it was and she and um Elizabeth Smart nope Elizabeth Short
00:14:28
God I now I don't know it's a mix of like wait one of those is smart is modern short is old
00:14:36
Right. She went there and so did a couple of these victims. One of them is called the bathtub.
00:14:44
It was called the bathtub murder. And it was this woman who had a lot of money, this young woman.
00:14:48
She went to the canteen a lot and she was found in a bathtub full of bloody water.
00:14:57
And her face, I believe her face was cut. It's amazing. Because Elizabeth Short was drained of blood.
00:15:03
Yes. And they thought it was done in, they surmised it was done in a bathtub, right?
00:15:07
I think so. Or they definitely know it was not, it was a, they had her somewhere for a long time.
00:15:14
That's the horrible part of that murder is that she was tortured for a long time.
00:15:19
And the person that killed her and may have killed these other women is the worst serial killer ever.
00:15:26
And they never caught it. And if they're not related, that it's such an insane coincidence that these murders were happening all around the same time.
00:15:35
I hate how normal her autopsy photos are getting where like you click on cold case file or cold cases and you click on images and it's just a close up of her face.
00:15:45
Have you seen that? Yeah. It's a horrible cutting. Yeah. And it's just like you don't even put in like Black Dahlia, you know, like and you see these like crime scene photos.
00:15:54
It's rough. And I fucking hate, you know, I love crime scene photos. I bought a fucking book called like crime scene photos, basically.
00:16:00
Yeah. When we were in Portland. To prove how much you love crime scene photos. I just wanted to prove it.
00:16:05
No, but it's actually, I kind of fucked myself over because it was vintage crime scene photos.
00:16:09
So I was like, great. It'll be like mobs and mobsters and like that kind of thing.
00:16:14
Good outfits. Yeah. It's not, it's horrifying. It's very graphic. Oh no. It's not late night reading.
00:16:21
and it's vintage in terms of like it was back when people would die of horrible things right
00:16:27
like rabies or something well there's there are rabies ones actually the rabies ones are the worst
00:16:32
thing of all there's just it's all it's it's more like horrors and there's a description it's actually
00:16:38
found out it's it's a like a los angeles police detectives book of his cases wow that they turn
00:16:46
into like a coffee table book for people who don't get dates. Hey, hey, watch it. We do fine.
00:16:56
Vince doesn't want to see it. Here's the guy with elephantitis of the nuts and Vince wanted to look
00:16:59
at that. It's pretty fucking fabulous. Oh man. Yeah. That's a good book. I mean, I, that's the
00:17:05
kind of thing. The reason I don't look at those pictures anymore is because I, in the nineties,
00:17:10
when I was, you know, a riot girl or whatever the hell I thought I was doing, there were lots of
00:17:15
times where we would look through books like that. And it was almost like a contest of like,
00:17:19
everyone would look at this crazy thing and be like, well, I don't even care because Kurt Cobain.
00:17:24
And I've seen things that I can, I still see it in my mind. Like the child who died of rabies,
00:17:29
I can, I can see it in my mind when I say that it's horrible. I can too, but for some reason,
00:17:35
it makes me want to like consume of it as much of it as I can so that, so, you know, I just want to
00:17:42
look away. Yeah. Yeah. So I know. Hey, speaking, that just reminded me there is a movie. Have you
00:17:49
ever seen that It like kind of a documentary It called Wisconsin death trip Okay It is the best I don know Steven have you seen it No He just did the most hilarious nod No no no no no no no
00:18:05
Don't get me wrong. It is, they took a book, I think it was just of like the police blotter from cities around
00:18:15
Wisconsin in the 1800s, mid 1800s, I believe. And so they just read the stories of what the
00:18:24
police, you know, what they were doing and what the crimes were. And it's insane because it's
00:18:29
just like today, except for it was in the mid 1800s. So it's like a boy walked onto,
00:18:36
into a farm yard and shot the two people standing there and walked away. And they,
00:18:41
and when the police arrested him, he said he was bored. And then there's like mothers who go and
00:18:47
drown their children in the river and all these things that we think are happening now. And they're
00:18:51
just, Oh, this time we live in and it's so awful or whatever. And it's like, you gotta watch,
00:18:56
you gotta watch Wisconsin death trip. It's just, what are they, what are the video? What's the
00:19:00
video of the visuals are this really awesome sepia toned, like B roll that they took all around.
00:19:07
Cause so much of Wisconsin is really nature and farms and there's, you know, so they basically
00:19:14
are just, if it's, if the crime is about a person walking into a farmyard, they walk down a road
00:19:19
and they get like a little kid in overalls holding a gun or what, but they don't, it's
00:19:24
not like act, it's not total reenactments. It's just more of like the feel. Yeah. Right.
00:19:29
And it was kind of creepy, like a distant white farmhouse, you know, that where it's
00:19:34
like, it is creepy. I want to see that. You don't want to see it? I do. Oh, no, I want
00:19:38
to see that. I thought you were like, Nope. The farmhouse shut me down. I can't deal with
00:19:42
kids in overalls. It really makes, it really triggers me. It's, it's, it triggers you about
00:19:48
me in grammar school about me when i was a waitress and i had to wear fucking overalls where
00:19:53
this little cafe in santa monica when i was like 19 and they required you to wear overalls
00:19:58
what full overalls are like an overall skirt dress i think you could do whatever you wanted
00:20:03
but all i had was like dickie's overalls was it a gas station restaurant like one of those like
00:20:08
it was country it was like a country themed oh restaurant yeah can we do uh gift corner podcast yeah let's do that no no no no okay we got sent a couple really good
00:20:25
presents yeah really quickly we were opening presents before this sent to the pox thank you
00:20:29
guys so much every day's christmas my favorite murder yay this is how we love you this is how
00:20:35
to get us to love you okay so we got these incredible pins they're like the enamel pins
00:20:40
that everyone loves. One is like a closed switchblade. So cool. It's so cool. One is a
00:20:45
fucking Ouija board, a little enamel Ouija board with a movable, what do they call these? The movie
00:20:51
part? Cursor? Cursor. Old fashioned cursor? It's a cursor. One, and then there's one that says
00:20:57
sweet honesty. One says fuck politeness, which I'm putting on a leather jacket. One that says
00:21:02
slightly spooky, which I'm guess we said at some point in our lives. Or maybe it's from another
00:21:07
true crime podcast she likes. Right. Or he. Okay. Okay. It says, Dear Georgia, Karen, and Stephen,
00:21:13
thank you for making the best podcast in the world. We have no murders to share, but wanted
00:21:18
to gift you guys with some killer pins. 50% of the proceeds for the Sweet Honesty pin goes to
00:21:23
end the backlog. The rest of us are just selfish. And then it's one of those emojis where it's a
00:21:28
smiley face shrugging, which I love. I don't know how to do, but I love. That's a good one.
00:21:32
Thank you all so much by Crystal Kim and Anna. And it's the company is called, um, fuck called Memento Mori, Mori, Memento Mori.
00:21:45
Yeah. So go and figure those things out on Etsy. Cause they're really cool. They're such nice pins.
00:21:50
Yeah. Very cool. And we got a whole box full of them. Thanks guys. Thanks guys. Nice designs.
00:21:54
Good job. High five. All right. Let's do, let's do the official nose blowing. Great.
00:21:59
And then that means we start. I, if I were a crafty person, I would send you in the mail little, like five little black table
00:22:09
cloth handkerchiefs. Okay. Isn't that gross though to save your snot? It's super disgusting,
00:22:17
but it's a funny joke referencing when you, when you blew your nose on the tablecloth. No,
00:22:22
no good. No, I get it now. I get it now. I didn't understand. Saving your snot is beyond disgusting
00:22:28
and makes no sense. But I did blow my nose on a tablecloth in Portland. That, that did happen.
00:22:33
Yeah. So that would be, it was pretty goddamn great. I felt like everyone felt very freed by
00:22:38
that action. I was, as I was bending down to do it, I was like, you should be humiliated while
00:22:42
you're doing this. And I didn't know it's just gone now. It's almost like we're just breaking
00:22:48
down the rules of society. Yeah. Fuck you, mom. Come to our live show. You won't believe what we
00:22:53
do tricks and things and blowing laws blown to shreds and minds blown lines and laws blown
00:23:03
uh you or me i don't know me i should know this i'm nervous uh uh uh oh my gosh what did georgia
00:23:13
yes because you did the gorilla killer oh that's right okay i don't remember what i did last week
00:23:19
oh i do no i don't okay all right ready for a serial i do you did the moore's murders
00:23:26
right crazy and then someone sent me a text saying did you know that the um smith song
00:23:33
suffer the little children is about the moore's murders right um which you kind of
00:23:39
have they say their names in the song do they yeah henley he calls her henley okay
00:23:45
oh that's so cool let's all listen to it That's her new theme song. Are they going to sue us?
00:23:52
Yeah. All right. And we're back. As we're recording this right now, we're about to go on tour.
00:24:03
That's right. But when this comes out, we'll be on tour. So I don't know how time works, but...
00:24:08
I mean, it's a loop. You've said it many a times, flat circle. And I do think it's kind of funny that we're like talking on the episode we're rewinding right now
00:24:17
about the experience that we had in Portland on a live show. Now we're going to talk about talking about it.
00:24:24
how many circles can we linearly go around in? I mean, it seems like plenty. Yeah. But this was a
00:24:35
major moment in live show history. Yeah. I wonder what number show this was for us, like total.
00:24:41
But Portland was incredible. The audience was great. We like insisted on going back there,
00:24:46
of course, for this next tour because of that. You know, there's so many cool girls with tattoos
00:24:51
there. How could we not have a great time? It's hard not to feel like, well, I think we do this in
00:24:57
every city we visit where we're like, these are the real murderinos. But Portland, of course,
00:25:02
and especially in these early live shows. And I do think we found out at some point that there was
00:25:08
a drink special that got people especially fucked up. Remember? I think it was like Tall Boys or
00:25:13
something. There was some sort of like in the theater at the bar thing that people were taking
00:25:19
advantage of. And so it was a little rowdier than I think we expected. Right. And then we had to set
00:25:24
some ground rules after this. So I don't remember what those are, but we're going to probably try to
00:25:30
bring them back this tour. Well, I mean, it's pretty basic. It's like if you've ever taken one
00:25:35
theater acting class, it's like you're not allowed to get on the stage when other people are doing a
00:25:40
show. That's never been allowed in the history of entertainment. Just crawling up on stage with
00:25:46
your sister. Oh, actually, when this comes out, like two weeks later is when we'll be in Portland
00:25:52
or three weeks later. So, oh, it's sold out. Nevermind. Go to myfavoritemurder.com slash live
00:25:58
and see if there's any tickets left anywhere. I think like there's always like a little tiny
00:26:03
batch of tickets that comes out at the very end, like right before the show, because they've been
00:26:07
holding tickets for VIPs or whatever. And so sometimes tickets just happen to become available
00:26:13
at all the shows. Also, if you go under a bridge night of show, there's often a guy in a trench
00:26:19
coat that can help you out that we place there. It's Stephen's shaved mustache. I love that guy.
00:26:25
I'm still on the fence about whether I should be eating homemade gifts from fans that bring them
00:26:31
to shows, which I've done in the past, been warned multiple times not to, but I love Rice
00:26:39
Krispy Treats so much. And also it's like, these are the girls that are afraid of the people that
00:26:45
do that. They're not the girls that do it. Right. But that's a dumb thing to think about a mass of
00:26:52
people. That's just, that's naive. It's us telling ourselves a lie. When I was looking at this and
00:26:59
remembered in these next couple rewinds that we're doing, that we had a company like Voodoo Donuts
00:27:05
making us donuts of ourselves and delivering them to the theater. I was like, why didn't I remember
00:27:12
that? That's what a gift. Yeah. Like what a lovely sentiment. What's great about this tour is now
00:27:17
we're more social media savvy. We have a social media person, so we can actually post all this
00:27:22
stuff on social media. So make sure you follow us. Yeah. Give a little credit. I mean, we were
00:27:27
doing kind of independently here and there, but the thing about us is you can't accuse us of being
00:27:32
overly organized or planning ahead having follow through i mean you know just really kind of being
00:27:39
in the place where we're supposed to be and acting like that's what we're doing it's like
00:27:43
there's a lot there's a lot to this experience but i feel like a big part of this whole journey
00:27:50
has been the portland live audience the people that have showed up for us from day one real life
00:27:58
Portland. We're here to get fucked up with you. We're here to interact with you. We want the full,
00:28:05
the full experience. Two of my very best friends in the world are going to be in the audience
00:28:09
because those fucking bitches insisted on moving to Portland against me. That's what it feels like
00:28:15
against me. So I'm excited for that. Yeah, that's very exciting. Mine too. Jason Lopez will be there
00:28:22
from the gap. Yes. Hell yeah. We should have them all like sitting on stage as like the audience,
00:28:27
on stage audience. I wonder if there is like a special, a special balcony. I remember this
00:28:34
theater when we're talking about this Portland show, it was that theater that was in a building
00:28:39
that used to be a school. Yeah. High school or something. It was so fucking cool. It just felt
00:28:43
like we were on like a teen drama from the nineties. It was amazing. Oh, someone gave us
00:28:48
nipple tassels. Oh yeah. From the strip club. I have a photo of it. Oh yeah. I have some photos
00:28:53
that I found from old live shows from back then, including the titty tassels that I will give to
00:28:58
Shannon to post on social media. Nice. Get it going. Remember the person who painted our pets?
00:29:04
Mine were on wine glasses and yours were on Christmas ornaments. Oh yes. I still have those.
00:29:09
I do too. Like they're displayed in my house. They're fucking gorgeous. I have a photo of all
00:29:13
of those. I mean, the people give. And I think there is a serious like arts. I mean, not to,
00:29:20
It's like the true arts of arts and crafts group of people in Portland. I think there's the people there are like, watch me craft this.
00:29:28
This is what I'm going to do. We're really building them up. They better fucking bring it.
00:29:30
We want more. And this is our passive aggressive way of demanding it from the Portland audience.
00:29:37
Well, okay. Should we get into it? Because of the live shows and just because we are so disorganized, this is the third
00:29:42
time in a row that I go first. Yes, I love it. What are you going to do? Well, then let's get into Georgia's story right now.
00:29:50
She tells the story of the murderer Joseph Edward Duncan III. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent
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Quince.com slash MFM. Goodbye. Ready for a serial killer? I am. Real horrible guy.
00:33:17
Uh-oh. Here we go. Joseph Edward Duncan III. The third. the way I looked at you when I said that was born on February 25th, 1963 in Tacoma, Washington.
00:33:31
And I said that he looks like the actor Ben Mendelsohn, who was the older brother from
00:33:35
Bloodline. Remember that guy's got kind of a lisp and he's like a broad, he's like an actor and he's
00:33:40
kind of a little hot. Bloodline, was he the bad one? Yeah. He's the one everyone's worried about?
00:33:44
Yes. That guy's amazing. Yeah. He looks like him. So like creepy skinny, just to have an idea.
00:33:49
Okay. Like gangly. I like this describing what they look like. So in 1976, he's 15 years old and he commits his first recorded sex crime.
00:33:59
He, at 15, he rapes a nine-year-old boy at gunpoint. Oh, fuck. Yeah. I said I was going to raves at 15 and he was raping children at gunpoint.
00:34:08
Fuck. Yeah. What happened to him? I don't know. And I can't find a lot of information on it.
00:34:14
Okay. So clearly not something horrible. Yeah. Hit his fucking head. I mean, and then he went to a boy's, I mean, it's like,
00:34:22
they go to juvie then they get raped it's uh it's so terrible and their mom like
00:34:27
oh i don't want to get as gross as i feel like i mean we really could say the worst things in the
00:34:33
world and be right okay the following i want to say it but it's so horrifying that like i
00:34:40
say it and then steven will bleep it okay i read somewhere and maybe it was head bundy's mom or
00:34:46
some like some killer's mom that like when he she would take him to go to the bathroom
00:34:50
she would pinch his penis as a kid. I think that's Ed Gein. Is that Ed Gein? So he wouldn't go?
00:34:59
I don't know. If he didn't do it, she would get mad at him and pinch. And it's like,
00:35:04
how do you not have a sexual fucking sadist on your hands? Yes. On your gross hands.
00:35:10
On your filthy, disgusting hands. No, that's horrifying. On your penis pinching hands.
00:35:14
I'm pretty sure that's Ed Gein's mother. She was out of her fucking mind. Yeah, that's right.
00:35:18
Didn't he? He killed her, right? uh no she died of natural causes he kept her in the house and played with her body and and
00:35:25
like wore her face in the moonlight pretty sure nipple belt yeah so unbleep now okay yeah nipple
00:35:33
belt is that him yeah that's our guy should we give a shout out to the girl who is fuck man we're
00:35:40
gonna need to post this but like we got this like gift once and it was a box and there were these
00:35:44
like this like crocheted belt in it and we were like okay all right we are yarn crochet belt
00:35:49
Was that in Oakland? I think it was the Oakland show. No, no, it was sent here. Oh yeah because then you guys left and I went to take a photo of it And as I looking through the lens I realized that it a crocheted nipple belt And it like every different color nipples like different races of nipples
00:36:08
And it's and I just lost my mind and like joy of like how creative like that's description of murderinos is like our listeners is someone crocheted a fucking multicultural nipple belt.
00:36:21
A nipple belt giving Ed Gein that shout out. Also, the fact that you had to have that realization alone, it's actually almost perfect.
00:36:30
Yeah. Because it's that like growing horror. It was horror. We pulled that thing out and we're like, is it a cat toy?
00:36:37
What is this? We were just like whipping it around. We had no idea. And then it just made me so happy when I realized how awful it was in the cutest way.
00:36:47
Yeah, because you couldn't tell. It was like a magic eye poster. You really had to stare at it for a while to understand the hideous dolphins.
00:36:53
I got to post it. Okay. Anyway, the following year, Joseph Duncan is arrested for driving a stolen car.
00:37:02
And that's when he's sentenced as a juvenile and sent to Dislin's Boys Ranch in Tacoma, which you know is probably a hellhole nightmare.
00:37:12
He tells his therapist when he's there that he had bound and sexually assaulted six boys.
00:37:19
And he also tells the therapist that he had raped around 13 younger boys by the time he was 16.
00:37:25
what the fuck yeah so he's a serial rapist yeah can you imagine losing count he said around 13 boys
00:37:32
what does that therapist fucking go home that night and drink they're just like now i become
00:37:38
a sea captain i'm done with this bullshit i'm gonna be a librarian now to the lighthouse he said
00:37:44
goodbye i'm gonna get a cat you know you know maybe just a ton of cats like 30 cats just pet
00:37:50
Just surround myself with cats. In 1980, still in Tacoma, he steals guns from a neighbor and abducts a 14-year-old boy.
00:37:59
Again, rapes him at gunpoint. And for that, he's sentenced to 20 years in prison, but he's released on parole in 94 after serving 14 years.
00:38:09
Then he's arrested in 96 for marijuana use, but he's released on parole a few weeks later, but with new restrictions.
00:38:18
and then in 97 he's around 34 he's arrested in kansas and returned to prison after violating
00:38:26
the terms of his parole but he's released from prison three years later in july 2000 with time
00:38:32
off for good good old good behavior behavior for the serial rapists of children good in prison
00:38:38
clean your fucking tray at the canteen at mess at mess hall and you can leave uh so that okay so in
00:38:47
the summer of 2014, he's accused of molesting a six-year-old boy at a park in Detroit Lake,
00:38:52
Minnesota, but he's not captured until March of 2005 and he's held on $15,000 bond. So there's a
00:38:59
dude who's a businessman from Fargo who somehow Duncan had become acquainted with who helped him
00:39:04
post bail. $15,000. I wonder what brand of pedophile he was. Allegedly, allegedly. Businessman.
00:39:12
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, very allegedly. Yeah. And if he wasn't, he must fucking hate himself now.
00:39:17
True. What if he was just trying to be like a good Samaritan? Yeah. He was a guy down on his luck.
00:39:24
He says he didn't molest a six-year-old boy at a park, so maybe he didn't. And I'm going to spend half of some people's salary getting out.
00:39:35
Anyways, Duncan skips town. Okay. Two months later in 2005, Kootenai County, Idaho,
00:39:42
authorities discovered the bodies of Brenda Grone, 40, her boyfriend and her 13 year old son they're in their family home near cordelaine and they've
00:39:53
been bound and died of blunt force trauma to the head wow um and um sorry brenda's two other
00:40:01
children shasta who's eight and dylan who's nine oh my god i hate this one so much i know it's so
00:40:09
horrible okay i know i almost didn't do it because it's so bad i will have to do some of the shit out
00:40:15
but i didn't know that this guy had so much background to him i didn't but it makes perfect
00:40:21
sense of course he does but oh my god oh my god yeah it's just one of those stories that
00:40:26
you can't fucking believe is real yes i i can still see the tv when i was watching the news
00:40:34
and them showing the foot, the CCTV or whatever foot. Okay. Yes. Sorry. I totally know what you're going to say, but you're going to give away the ending.
00:40:41
Tell your story. I'm so sorry. I saw it too. And it's... It just burned in my mind.
00:40:46
Yeah. Okay. So Shasta is eight. Dylan is nine. They're missing. They're missing from the house and the three others, the three older people are dead.
00:40:55
And so they issue an Amber Alert and they comb the area and they can't find the kids
00:40:59
until six weeks later in July 2005, Shasta is recognized from her Amber Alert by a waitress, a manager, and two customers at a Denny's.
00:41:11
But then they're back in Coeur d'Alene. Coeur d'Alene, is that how you say it? Coeur d'Alene.
00:41:16
The workers freak the fuck out, immediately phone the police, and they position themselves to prevent Duncan from leaving.
00:41:24
Police officers arrive at the restaurant. They arrest Duncan without incident, and Shasta's taken to the hospital to be reunited with her dad.
00:41:30
And so the footage we're talking about is them walking into the fucking Denny's and she's got her arms crossed.
00:41:36
She's like this little blonde girl. He's this creep who looks like John Mendelsohn, Ben Mendelsohn.
00:41:42
And she's got her arms crossed and it's clear something is wrong. And you wonder if you had seen that,
00:41:48
would you have thought something was going on too? They must have because that many people,
00:41:52
I remember reading about the waitress coming to the table and being like I don like the feel here Are you okay Yeah what going on And I think she waited Did he go to the bathroom Maybe There was some moment she had with Shasta I believe
00:42:07
where she was like, this isn't good, and she called the police. Well, what's so weird about it is, I have to wonder,
00:42:14
they went back to the town they were from. So everyone in that town must have known intimately what both,
00:42:21
well, maybe they didn't know who he was yet, but what she looked like. Yes. So there was another sighting of them, you know, in another state that they later realized happened. And the, the, the woman who worked at the store, it was like a gas station was like, I thought it might be her, but I wasn't sure. So I didn't do anything about it. And it's like, well, someone in your town would have done something. And it also tells you, like, if you have a bad feeling about something, don't worry about hurting the dad's fucking feelings. If this child looks in distress.
00:42:51
At least talk to one other person about it. If you, if you don't send up every red flag you ever feel bad feelings, but there's definitely,
00:43:02
if you're in tune enough, there's, when you know something's wrong, you know, it's wrong
00:43:06
and trust yourself. I've always thought that like, if I see a kid who looks uncomfortable or in distress or not,
00:43:13
not feeling like they're where they're supposed to be, it's okay for me to go up to a kid and be
00:43:18
like, Hey, what's your name? You know, like engage with the kid, you know, I'm not a fucking dude,
00:43:23
so it's not creepy, but like, like don't do that. If you're a guy, tell a woman to do that, but
00:43:29
you know, to be like, what's your name? And if you fucking send something is wrong, like you can just
00:43:33
tell by body language with a kid. Yeah. Something isn't right. I mean, there wish there should be.
00:43:38
Yeah. I wish there was some kind of like set process or keyword, you know, whatever this.
00:43:45
Yeah. Listen, write down everyone's license plate. Every creepy dude's license plate at all times.
00:43:50
Just take the time. You don't need to work. Quit your job. Get a spiral notebook.
00:43:55
Sit in front of a gas station. And just write down license plates for a while. Yeah. Done.
00:44:00
But I adore that Denny's waitress. Oh my God. Because you know that, first of all, if they work at Denny's, she's probably working the night shift.
00:44:06
She's seen some Looney Tunes people. You know she doesn't call the cops every time she sees a scraggly Mendelssohn type.
00:44:15
No, we shouldn't involve that actor at all. The poor guy. He's like, wait, what the fuck?
00:44:19
Fuck you guys. No, we just got him fucking cast on the Lifetime movie of this motherfucking case.
00:44:24
You're welcome, Ben Mendelsohn. We're creating work. You're welcome. Hospital. All right, here's where it gets.
00:44:31
Awful. So Shasta tells investigators that the night of her abduction, her mother had called her
00:44:37
into the living room from the bedroom where she had been sleeping. And she saw Duncan.
00:44:41
Like Duncan was like, call your kids in here right now. She sees Duncan wearing black gloves and holding a gun.
00:44:47
He ties her mother's hands with nylon zip ties, as well as the mother's fiance and her brother Slade.
00:44:55
Then he takes Dylan, Shasta, and her little brother Dylan out of the house. They get inside his stolen rental car, and then Duncan goes back into the house.
00:45:07
She hears her mother's fiance scream and then sees her injured older brother staggering away from the entrance to the home.
00:45:14
But she didn't witness Duncan bludgeoning the three of them to death. He bludgeoned them to death?
00:45:21
Tied them up and bludgeoned them. Fuck. When Shasta was asked where her brother Dylan is, she said,
00:45:27
in heaven, there may be some evidence down in the Lolo Forest because that's where we were.
00:45:32
What does that mean? On July 4th, 2005, Dylan's remains were discovered at a campsite near St. Regis, Montana.
00:45:40
He'd been sexually assaulted and then killed with a shot in the head. after which his body had been burned and shasta fucking witnessed the whole thing oh god i know
00:45:50
um duncan had also filmed dylan's final hours and duncan can be audibly heard in the video which
00:45:57
was shown to the fucking jury can you fucking imagine how much therapy you'd need after that
00:46:01
oh my god saying the devil likes to watch children suffer and cry shasta is also repeatedly tortured
00:46:07
and sexually assaulted but supposedly he falls in love with her and decides to return her home
00:46:12
which is why they were back in her town. What a monster. Yeah. Duncan later confesses that he had entered the home
00:46:21
while the family slept with the express intention of murdering the parents and kidnapping the children.
00:46:26
He claims he, quote, wanted, he wanted, quote, revenge against society for sending him to prison
00:46:32
for 20 years for sexually assaulting a younger boy who was 14 years old when he himself was only 16 year old.
00:46:38
So he wants revenge against society for being sent to prison for sexually assaulting for being rapist yep yeah that's not clear thinking
00:46:45
no it's not logical thinking you're not taking responsibility for your actions you're not fucking
00:46:50
you're not cool you're dougson you're the devil you're the devil you're the devil's like dude
00:46:58
calm down fuck can you skip to the part where he gets murdered in jail please tell me the devil's
00:47:04
like, Hey man, I hurt fucking corrupt attorneys. Not yeah. Sorry. Corrupt attorneys. Sorry. Corrupt
00:47:14
attorneys. So he subsequently charged with murdering Dylan as well as the three other
00:47:19
family members during his incarceration. Authorities are able to link Duncan to the
00:47:25
disappearance of Anthony Michael Martinez, who was 10 years old when he went missing on April 4th,
00:47:31
97 while he was playing with friends in the front yard of his home in Beaumont, California. Fuck. A man approached the group, asked for help finding a missing
00:47:39
kitten while holding out a photo of a cat as well as a dollar bill. And two of the children ran away in fear and the kidnapper pulls a knife out, grabs Anthony
00:47:51
and flees in a white car with red pinstripes and no hug caps. After two weeks search, Martinez's
00:48:00
body is found nude and partially decomposed in Indio on April 19th, 97. He had been sexually
00:48:06
assaulted and bound with duct tape. A composite sketch is made of the suspect and a partial fingerprint, but the case goes cold. And then when he is incarcerated,
00:48:18
Riverside authorities are able to match the partial fingerprint taken to Duncan. And
00:48:24
so they officially announce his connection. He pleads guilty in 2011. The plea agreement carries a mandatory life sentence, although he won't get the death penalty for it in California because he pleads guilty.
00:48:40
Duncan also confessed to two additional murders, Samizha White, 11, and her sister Carmen Cubias, 9, who were last seen leaving a Seattle, Washington hotel to get cigarettes at a nearby restaurant for an older brother.
00:48:56
Oh, no. I know, babies. police said that they don't they don't know whether the girls ran away
00:49:03
or victims of foul play at the time of course a fucking nine year old is running away
00:49:08
an 11 year old then on July 6, 96 that happened on July 6, 96 then their remains were found on February 10, 1998
00:49:18
in Bothell, Washington by a transient living in an abandoned barn all three murders occurred
00:49:25
while Duncan was on parole of those murders Duncan has only been charged in the California case
00:49:32
in all he's been convicted in Ohio for kidnapping and murder of the three victims
00:49:37
for which he was given six life sentences in federal court for kidnapping Shasta and Dylan
00:49:42
and for murdering Dylan he was given three death sentences and three life sentences
00:49:48
and in the state of California for kidnapping murdering Anthony Martinez for which he was given
00:49:53
two life sentences is he still in jail? he's still in jail he will be forever look want to see his picture no oh god
00:50:01
i oh steven you better watch that mustache because we are looking at a serious i'm doubting the mustache yeah although murderina's got me a mustache switchblade
00:50:18
oh yeah okay i can keep it in check okay good yes please do that case that little girl and the
00:50:25
things she went through people i feel like anybody that was like conscious around that time
00:50:32
paid attention to anything around that time it also because it was early enough so that there
00:50:38
wasn't like nowadays there's so much awful shit going on as we know everywhere all the time uh
00:50:45
they're they're closing down nature they're closing down schools they're closing down
00:50:50
protecting people who need protection they're closing it all down it's insanity it happens
00:50:54
every day, but there was a time and I used to think about it a lot in the nineties where we had
00:50:59
it. We were just like fat cats. There was nothing going on. It was before we got into that first war.
00:51:06
Clinton. It was Clinton. It was the Clinton days. It may have been later than that, but,
00:51:11
but still it was like, there wasn't. So when something like that came on the news,
00:51:15
it was heart stopping. It was like, you've got to be kidding me. How did this happen?
00:51:20
Yeah. No, I mean, even in the just the last couple of years, we hear about every single one of them, especially when you're into fucking true crime.
00:51:31
Yeah. I'm just constantly reading about these things and we're just constantly looking at, but back then it was harder to find those things and the detail that you can get now and the photos.
00:51:41
And so it was just this glimpse that you would get. Yeah. Horrible. Yeah. God, that's.
00:51:48
Yeah. Sorry. So that's. No, I mean, that's like, that was a big one. And it's interesting to know that that was a person that started doing that. That was a, that was an internally and intensely damaged individual that like started pretty bad and it got way, way, way worse.
00:52:04
Right. Somewhere along the way, you know, there could have been intervention or just something different could have happened.
00:52:13
I think it's when eventually, hopefully people start taking rape as a crime more seriously as a real, as, as something that this isn't something to have your hands slapped and walked away from. And that a lot of people that do it, uh, do it over and over again and intend to do it over and over again. That's a serious problem with a person.
00:52:36
And it's not, I feel like there's a lot of people who just think rape is someone who wants to have sex really bad.
00:52:42
A rapist is someone who's just looking for sex. When if you think about it in a way, which it actually is, which is this fucking violent, insane mind who needs to overpower and hurt and fucking ruin someone.
00:52:56
That's a, that is a criminal who should not be allowed on the streets after three years of good behavior in prison.
00:53:02
And how often do they escalate? I mean, how many stories do we tell that start off with a person doing it?
00:53:08
She, he raped a girl in his town and then da, da, da. And then he moved to this town and then suddenly he's murdering the people he's raping.
00:53:14
I mean, it's, it's the story every time. I feel like it's going to catch up slowly as long as we don't keep, well, I mean, I feel
00:53:22
like the more people who talk about it, the more people who have conversations, but also
00:53:27
the more like the Brock Turner. I was just thinking, that's what I was thinking about.
00:53:32
Yeah, that the swimmer from Stanford who got released because, you know, nobody wanted to mess up his swimming career.
00:53:40
And he raped a girl so violently who I think he drugged. I think I don't know if that ever came out like to be the truth, but that's the theory.
00:53:51
She was incapacitated. She was incapacitated. She and when she told the story it like she at a party and all of a sudden she waking up behind a dumpster And the two men who witnessed it were so upset The two men grown men were crying and so upset of what they witnessed
00:54:08
That's not something that you go, okay, well, don't do this anymore. Who would do that?
00:54:12
It's like we have to start treating it and talking about it as the extremely violent criminal act that it is.
00:54:19
And also, stop fucking using the phrase sexual assault. I was thinking of the same thing.
00:54:24
euphemisms. If it's rape, it's rape. Some people say like, you know, sexual assault,
00:54:29
it's not sex. Don't use the word sex when it's just rape. Non-consensual sex. Non-consensual
00:54:36
sex is rape. Sex is between two consenting adults. So don't fucking call it that. Also,
00:54:43
date rape is rape. Date rape is rape. That doesn't mean it's nice and chill rape. It's rape.
00:54:49
Also, it wasn't a pre-agreement that that agreement got broken, which is what date rape
00:54:53
alludes to. That's bullshit. You went on a date. What did you, someone got upset. No,
00:55:00
this person is a rapist. You don't rape people unless you're a rapist. Don't rape people. Oh man. I mean, I think we're coming down pretty hard on an anti-rape stance.
00:55:11
I think it's clear that we're anti-rape. And we're saying it to our listeners as if
00:55:18
We have to convince them of any. You guys, stop it. Stop it. We're like, yes to fucking crocheted nipple belts.
00:55:26
No to rape. Just know where we stand. We're going to tell you how it works. There's no gray area.
00:55:32
Oh, man. You ready for yours? Yeah. This is going to be a bit of a left turn. I'm not going to say it's fun.
00:55:40
People died. It's an upturn. It's an uptick from... It's not the most upsetting.
00:55:46
for me that really, and I'm not, I swear I'm not criticizing you. It really, that's the one that
00:55:52
gets me where I almost try not to think about it because it's just awful. I almost didn't do it,
00:55:57
but I'm like, but there are people, I mean, that's, these are the stories people, when you
00:56:01
talk about them, it's important. Yeah. Cause she also, cause she's a survivor and she survived.
00:56:06
And she has a story to tell, which I think she's now coming out and telling it. I bet she is. Yeah.
00:56:10
I bet. What a horror. I bet she's doing amazing work. Uh, and that's, you know, there's no,
00:56:16
I mean, just to think of the nightmare she went through. Yeah. As a survivor, she has to be a very strong person to be able to move forward.
00:56:27
Not on, but move forward in her life. Yep. Okay, we're back. George, do you have any updates on this story?
00:56:36
I do have some updates. What an awful fucking story. And I hate to keep bringing up the book.
00:56:40
Well, I actually love to keep bringing up the book Murderland. But this dude grew up in the perfect serial killer area.
00:56:49
Yeah. You know, that Pacific Northwest in the 70s, lead filled skies. I just bought a hard copy of that book because I was like, it's going to take too long.
00:56:57
I forgot to bring it. It's okay. It's okay because I want to support it anyway. And I saw it.
00:57:01
I was at Bookstar and I saw it and I was just like, oh, I have to get this myself.
00:57:05
I'm like jealous that you're going to start it again. It's so fucking incredible.
00:57:08
Okay. So I have some updates. In 2021, Joseph Edward Duncan III died at the age of 58 while still on death row.
00:57:15
He had previously been diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. Anthony Edward's father, Ernesto, made a statement saying, quote,
00:57:22
while I would have liked to witness his execution, knowing that he is now standing before God,
00:57:27
being held accountable for what he has done, what he did to my son, and the horrible crimes he committed to others,
00:57:33
that's the real justice, end quote. And then Shasta Groen wrote a book incredible called Out of the Woods, A Girl, A Killer, and a Lifelong Struggle to Find the Way Home.
00:57:44
That was published very recently in 2025 and co-authored with true crime writer Greg Olson.
00:57:50
We need to get that. I mean, everybody should go buy Shasta Groen's book for sure.
00:57:56
Definitely. Out of the Woods, it's called. And in it, Shasta is open with her long healing journey and tells the story of her life both before and after she lost her family and survived Duncan's violence.
00:58:07
I've seen her on TV and she is just this dynamic, incredible, awe-inspiring woman.
00:58:13
Wow. Yeah. That was Mimi. Mimi said, yeah. It sounded like Mimi was making fun of me.
00:58:19
I'm like, I'm wow. She's like, meow. Meow, meow, meow. Okay. I do have a corrections corner on your story because I mentioned the basically the detail that Ed Gein's mother pinched his penis.
00:58:32
Right. And that was a topic in the original episode. It turns out that's like an urban myth.
00:58:39
And it's like there's no basically there's no proof. So that's just me kind of pushing along another urban myth that I shouldn't have done.
00:58:50
Thank God you cleared that horrible detail up. 29 years later. Please don't think poorly of Ed Gein's mother.
00:58:59
In this fucking podcast of horrible details, there's one we can check right off that list.
00:59:04
Yeah, get rid of it. Oh, yeah. All right, let's listen to Karen's story about Fred Newlander.
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01:01:52
Goodbye. All right. I'm going to talk to you about a man named Rabbi Fred Newlander.
01:01:59
Do you know him? No. Okay. So I got most of this from an old City Confidential, which if you haven't seen City Confidential,
01:02:09
the oldest ones were narrated by a man, a great actor named Paul Winfield. and Paul Winfield narrated the show like he had a margarita in one hand.
01:02:23
He is so chilled out. It feels like when he tells you the story and the writing is so hilariously brilliant.
01:02:30
They tell you the story. So they, it's called City Confidential. So they tell you all about the city first.
01:02:36
So they're like, It was a bedroom community. Exactly. Cherry Hill, Pennsylvania was a sleepy book.
01:02:43
And then it becomes, they do it thematically. So since, because this was about the rabbi,
01:02:48
it was all these biblical references. It was like, but evil did live here. And it's like, and he's kind of talking like that.
01:02:54
He's a little slurry. It's like innuendo-y, but like such obvious innuendos that it's not.
01:03:01
I love that show. It's the best show. I used to watch it so much. I don't know why Forensic Files is on constantly
01:03:06
and that show isn't. Because Forensic Files is like adorable because it's so dated, you know?
01:03:13
It's adorable. City Confidential is legitimately good. City Confidential is a beautifully put together,
01:03:19
beautifully produced show. Good stories too. Great stories. They get great people.
01:03:23
Here's what I love. The hometown reporters because they're the ones that know the whole story.
01:03:28
Angels and this is their big fucking moment to be on TV. And to be like, I know, I wrote about,
01:03:33
he called me on the phone. I'm the one. I'm the one. It's me, Pam. Listen, I went to fucking
01:03:39
Phoenix University Journalism School and I'm finally fucking getting my comeuppance.
01:03:44
But a lot of these people, like, it's true. It's like this one woman who was a reporter for,
01:03:49
it was like the Cherry Hill Gazette or whatever the hell, I should have written it down.
01:03:52
It's on YouTube. Everybody go watch it. It's so good. But these are journalists.
01:03:58
These are people who are like, this is what the town's like. This is what we're used to.
01:04:02
It's so cool because they give you the sense of what is going on in the town. They're always such like,
01:04:08
they're such earnest people. Like you trust them. They know what they're talking about.
01:04:13
It's not this fucking bullshit over here where it's like, I think it was in Pennsylvania.
01:04:18
They're like, they know for a fact. Everything they say is a fact. Oh, you mean over here, like sitting on the couch right now?
01:04:24
I was pointing to myself. Oh, I thought you meant like the LA Times. I was like, what?
01:04:29
Because we're in LA. Not like the West Coast. Oh, I get it. No, no. Okay. So yes, if you want to get the full story, the city confidential is on there.
01:04:38
um uh also just i do recommend getting onto a youtube like enter some true crime something
01:04:46
because they just have a million old shows on youtube that are true crime stories that just
01:04:51
they don't this one doesn't have the title city confidential it just says fred newlander oh
01:04:56
yeah then you click it so i think somebody was avoiding oh getting in trouble so you can still
01:05:02
watch them. Anyhow, please do support city confidential. It doesn't exist anymore. Okay.
01:05:11
So Cherry Hill, Pennsylvania is a suburb of Philly. It's middle, upper middle class. And it might sound
01:05:18
familiar to you because it had the first indoor mall on the East coast, the Cherry Hill mall.
01:05:23
Okay. No. Okay. Um, so that's exciting for them. I'm happy for them. Right. People. I mean,
01:05:30
it used to be like because um the uh highway 70 used to go from philly to cherry hill and so
01:05:38
basically that road was always full of traffic because people lived worked in the city and lived
01:05:45
in the suburbs and so they started building you know um stores along the road because everyone
01:05:51
was always on the road that smart that what led to the first indoor mall i never thought about being like there a first one It just like then they were Yeah And then people would just go like the whole city was kind of built around and the community
01:06:05
was in the mall. They, one of these reporters said like, if you want to know the community or
01:06:09
see what the community is like, you go to the mall. Wow. Um, I love a mall. Dude, malls. Dude, dude.
01:06:15
Yep. So, okay. So there's like 70,000 residents and probably a third of them are Jewish. So
01:06:21
So there's, you know, these reporters talk a lot about how much there really is a lot of diversity in this town.
01:06:29
And so one of the more popular temples in Cherry Hill is called Mkhor Shalom. And it was founded by Rabbi Fred Newlander in 1974.
01:06:40
He was an assistant rabbi at a different temple, but he didn't want to be the assistant anymore.
01:06:46
And he felt like his take on what he wanted to talk about and preach about, please correct me on any of these.
01:06:54
I'm going to use a lot of Catholic wording for very strictly Jewish things. And I apologize in advance.
01:06:59
But he basically wanted his, you know, congregation and his leadership to be a little bit more updated and a little different.
01:07:07
So he starts this new temple. And by the mid 90s, he's got 4000 people going to it.
01:07:15
So it's like one of the bigger ones in the city. He had met his wife, Carol, in college.
01:07:21
She was the daughter of a very well-to-do garment businessman, I guess. Garment manufacturer?
01:07:29
Like a garment textile guy, you know, textiles and clothing merchant, I guess. But she was rich.
01:07:40
Like she grew up in a mansion in Long Island and with butlers and stuff. Holy shit.
01:07:44
I love that part when they talked about like a rolling, a rolling lawn down to the ocean
01:07:49
or whatever. Like the thought of having butlers just like hanging out makes me, I would feel so uncomfortable.
01:07:55
Yeah. We're like someone silent standing there ready to do your bidding. Pointing at Steven.
01:08:01
I want to point out that. Yeah. I would hate it to have like a helper. Someone that just does whatever you ask them to and you don't, you only pay them every
01:08:09
five months. Touche. I am Stan corrected. I didn't, I meant that about myself as much as you.
01:08:16
No, yeah, you were correct. Steven's crying. Steven, get back in your hole. Steven, put your tuxedo back on.
01:08:26
Okay. So while at the same time as Fred is, you know, starting up his basically his own religious community in Cherry Hill,
01:08:38
Carol notices that there with all the festivities that go on and the religious holidays and stuff like that,
01:08:44
there's no kosher bakery. So she opens Cherry Hill's first kosher bakery. It was called the Classic Cake Company.
01:08:51
And she starts it immediately, right? She sees a niche that needs to be filled. She does it.
01:08:57
She's not going to fucking rest on her dad's textile laurels. Fuck no. No. And she's not going to rest on her rabbi husband's good time.
01:09:05
No. She's going to be like, excuse me, I went to a party and yet again, I couldn't get a slice of kosher cake.
01:09:11
Can I please? it might damn it is there any buttercream in this fucking that hasn't touched bacon
01:09:18
that's kosher right when it doesn't get bacon rubbed on it no so she starts this cake company
01:09:26
and it does great so by the early 90s the new landers are killing it their son matthew
01:09:33
is a medical student but he's also part-time emt um their daughter rebecca lived in philly
01:09:41
um i don't know anything about her but i want to say great things she was i mean she lived in philly
01:09:47
yeah she got out of cherry hill yeah she made it she was she wasn't no schlump no no way and she
01:09:53
still got along with her family because her and her mom talked on the phone all the time
01:09:57
so the only worry was this carol at the classic cake company made the take was between five and
01:10:05
20 grand a day. Holy shit. So it's a middle-aged mom type who's driving home with a shit ton of
01:10:13
cash every night. So Fred starts to be concerned about that. And he tells Carol, I'm going to look
01:10:21
into this because I think we need better security for the house and for you. And we need to kind of
01:10:25
like address this. Um, so in, uh, Fred says he knows a guy. So what had happened was in 1992,
01:10:35
a man named Len Janoff had come to, um, the temple, um, because someone in his AA group
01:10:44
recommended that he go speak to Rabbi Fred Neumeier. Um, because at the time Len had just
01:10:50
gotten divorced. He was totally broke. He was a raging alcoholic doing very like really bad in
01:10:57
general. Um, and also it's people say he was kind of a bit of a liar. So he had a, he had kind of a,
01:11:04
he had some personality issues and some work to do. And when he went to go talk to Rabbi Fred
01:11:09
Neumeier, they got along great. And, and Fred said, come to this temple. You don't have to worry
01:11:14
about paying anything like you we want you here you're welcome and he really made a place for him
01:11:21
there and they both smoked at the time so they would sneak off and smoke together because i think
01:11:25
rabbis rabbis might maybe they're not supposed to smoke or it's frowned upon or something well he
01:11:30
would sneak away yeah with his friend and they would go smoke and talk and um turned out that
01:11:37
len had a lot to say he had been a vietnam vet and then according to him he worked for the cia
01:11:44
and the FBI and special forces. Nobody, if you actually have done that, you don't say it.
01:11:51
That's exactly what someone said in City Confidential. Shut up. I swear to God. I think his own friend,
01:11:58
there was another guy that was this, classic, like, cause this thing was shot in what, 1995 probably. So there's some amazing,
01:12:06
like amazing colored blazers and there's some frosted tips. Uh, but his friend said the exact
01:12:12
same thing. People who worked in the CIA do not tell you stories about when they used to work at
01:12:16
the CIA. The part of, uh, lens reason for drinking so much is cause he'd been in the shit and seen
01:12:23
this shit. Okay. So no one's going to say anything about it. Okay. So on Tuesday nights, Carol as at
01:12:30
the classic cake company has her, it's her manager's meeting night. And so she stays at work until
01:12:36
eight. Um, so that night, November 1st, uh, 1994 is a Tuesday and Fred comes home at six o'clock
01:12:46
and he brings a pizza home for him and Matthew to have for dinner. Cause they know Carol's not
01:12:51
going to be there. And then, uh, Matthew goes for his shift being an EMT at six 30. Oh no.
01:12:58
Do I know where this is going? You might. Um, so then Fred goes back to the temple because, uh,
01:13:06
Carol's not going to be there. So he goes back to the temple. He pops in on the assistant rabbi's,
01:13:12
um, Judaism class and he pops in on the choir practice and he's kind of hanging out at the
01:13:18
temple. I don't know what he's doing. Um, when Carol comes home at eight o'clock, uh, no one's
01:13:25
home and she's talking on the phone to her daughter, Rebecca. And while they're on the phone,
01:13:30
she says to her daughter, Oh, the bathroom, the bathroom man's here again. And she's like,
01:13:35
what are you talking about? And then Carol explains that, um, a man had dropped by to
01:13:40
deliver something for Fred, the father. And, um, instead of just handing the thing to her,
01:13:48
he asked if he could use the bathroom. And so he came in and use the bathroom. And, uh, Rebecca was
01:13:55
very upset about that and was like, I don't like that at all. Don't let him in. And she said, no,
01:13:58
he's fine. He's this schlubby guy. He was kind of like, you know, um, he has nothing to worry
01:14:04
about basically is what she said. And then they get off the phone. Um, and she says, he's a friend
01:14:12
of your father's. So don't worry about it. At nine 20, Fred comes home from the temple and no
01:14:18
one's home. And then when he gets inside the doorway more, he looks in the living room and
01:14:24
it's white carpet, white furniture, like almost in a completely white room. And it's covered in
01:14:30
blood. There's blood everywhere. And Carol is laying in the middle of the living room.
01:14:34
He calls 911. And when he calls 911, um, he sounds really upset and flustered. And at one
01:14:43
point he says to the, um, dispatcher or the 911 operator, um, should I touch her? He asks that.
01:14:53
So nor, and I thought about that after, cause I was like, well, that's kind of a weird point to
01:14:57
make. And then I thought, well, that's that thing where if I walked into this apartment to come and
01:15:03
record and you were laying in the middle of the floor, right? Bloody. I would run over to you and
01:15:08
be like, George, are you okay? And touch you a bunch without asking anybody about it. You wouldn't
01:15:13
think to yourself, oh, I don't want to contaminate this crime scene. Right. Or just I'm going to hang
01:15:17
back and hopefully she's okay. Um, so that, that was noted basically. Yeah. Um, and then I thought
01:15:27
about that because so his so as he's on the phone call he says you have to tell that you have to tell
01:15:35
them my son is an emt they can't send him here and so like the word goes out but it didn't matter
01:15:42
because he was like the third group that arrived so he has the address yes but but he wasn't on that
01:15:51
call or that run or whatever. So by the time he did arrive, there had already been police and
01:15:57
another ambulance or whatever. He tries to run inside. He has to get physically restrained
01:16:01
from running inside. And then he looks over and sees his father just standing in the driveway,
01:16:06
just kind of staring. And he notices that there's no blood on his father at all. There's not a drop
01:16:14
of anything on his father. And then he asks and he, and, um, the rabbi didn't say last
01:16:22
rites over her. He, he didn't say the prayer. Like there are things they were saying that
01:16:27
they would assume he would have done as a rabbi with a dead person. Now, who knows?
01:16:32
Cause it's his wife. Sure. So he might've just been in total shock and like wandered
01:16:36
out. Fair. But when police were exiting the house coming in and out, he never asked anybody
01:16:42
what's going on, what happened to her. He never said a word. He was just standing there very
01:16:47
dispassionately staring. And if you found me and I was stabbed to death, another thing that would
01:16:53
go through your mind is, is the killer still in the house? Yes. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like
01:16:57
to not think that. How long ago did this happen? Right. Who did it? What is happening? Who did
01:17:02
this? Why? Are they still here? Yeah. I think that's a natural fucking. Fuck yes. That'd be
01:17:07
the scariest thing. So he doesn't even think about that. No, that's bad. Like that's a bad sign.
01:17:12
Yes. And also I did hear a bit of his 911 call and it's just, I just hate so much when it sounds
01:17:19
like people are fake. I hate fake crying a lot. What does he sound like? He is just, it's like a
01:17:25
lot of that, but it's like, I just, I just love good acting. And that's offends me when people
01:17:30
are like, Oh, this will pass. Yeah. This is how people act when they're upset. Everyone else is
01:17:34
so stupid and I'm so smart that they'll never know that this is fucking fake. Yeah, of course.
01:17:39
I'm so good. I'm so good. And so believable on these decisions I'm about to make about what a
01:17:44
real person who has emotions. Right. Like who wouldn't murder his wife. Yeah. Oh my God. Okay.
01:17:51
Okay It says go to paper Okay So of course immediately he becomes the focus of the investigation because he the husband and because these weird weird behavior yeah um they start talking to but his
01:18:09
alibi is airtight as we know yeah the choir teacher song and the assistant rabbi song he
01:18:15
asked everyone what time it was for real and to the point where the cops are immediately like
01:18:20
that's a super airtight alibi that we don't buy for one second well and they start asking people
01:18:24
at the temple. It was the first time in four years he'd ever gone into the Judaism class.
01:18:31
Oh my God. And the choir leader was a known to hate interruptions. So no one went into choir practice while it was going on.
01:18:41
It was, and Fred himself knew that about him or her. Man, do some due diligence and then come in like once in the fucking weeks beforehand.
01:18:48
Again. I'm not telling you how to fucking kill someone, but. But it's the thing of,
01:18:53
if you don't know instinctually how natural people act, how people act in a natural way,
01:18:58
you're not going to be able to recreate it. If you're a sociopath, like this guy,
01:19:02
And you think everyone fucking thinks you're on the level. Yeah. You think everyone's dumb.
01:19:06
And also clearly he's got a bit of a God complex. If he's like, I need my own temple, whatever.
01:19:12
So, okay. Then they go to the phone records and they realize that the rabbi had been calling this one number
01:19:22
and they go and look at it and it's a local Philadelphia radio talk show host. And yes. And, uh, we'd have to find her name. Um, shit, sorry.
01:19:39
This is a weird turn. I wasn't expecting. Did you not see this one coming? Oh, I didn't see that.
01:19:43
That we were going to go into a talk radio. No, I did not. Yeah. We don't talk about that in podcasting.
01:19:48
uh neither did anybody else especially the fans of elaine sorcini's of philadelphia radio
01:19:57
she's a radio personality um so basically they do all the math they see that he's
01:20:05
he called her he called her the day after the murder and said uh i really like hang in there
01:20:14
I really want to be with you. Are they fucking? What's that? Are they fucking? Oh, they straight up fucking.
01:20:19
Oh. Yeah. So they find out all these calls are going to her house. This is a woman who the reason they met is because two years earlier, he presided over
01:20:30
her husband's funeral. Uh-huh, girl. Uh-uh. Yes, that's right. and um they had started having an affair uh they say roughly two months later oh no yes body ain't
01:20:47
cold he moved right in yep you don't you don't fuck someone whose husband you said the kaddish
01:20:53
for you know what i mean right that's what i always say that's what you that's your you have
01:20:58
that tattooed. Right. Uh, okay. So, oh, they, I'm sorry. I just got, I just got up to my own
01:21:05
piece of paper. They began, she admitted that they started having an affair 10 days after her
01:21:12
husband's funeral, 10 days after her husband's funeral. No. Yes. Um, and then two years later,
01:21:21
she gives him an ultimatum. She says, I don't want to sneak around with you anymore.
01:21:25
you say you want to leave your wife leave your wife and if you don't do it by the end
01:21:30
of 1994 this is over and I'm starting afresh in the new year and he's like how about instead
01:21:37
well he so that was in October of 1994 and the murder happens in November he's told her
01:21:47
I'll have this all sorted out by your birthday which was in December and she's like you know I
01:21:52
mean breakup by sorted out do you mean yeah you're going to end their relation no no that's
01:21:57
kind of what i mean a horrible murder yeah oh well that's not what i was talking about at all um
01:22:04
so yeah so he was making a lot of calls to her so the police all the evidence they have is um
01:22:12
circumstantial so it even though everyone's like that stuff about his airtight alibi it's still an
01:22:18
airtight aisle by just like everyone's like this is yeah this stinks to heaven but it doesn't matter
01:22:22
right they can't get any hard evidence until the cops tell elaine that fred newlander was also
01:22:32
having affairs with three other women at the temple besides her uh yeah and that's when she's
01:22:39
like guess what hey how about guess what everybody and she spills it then what a shitty thing though
01:22:45
for her not to, if she hadn't known that she would have never told anyone. You know what I mean?
01:22:49
Yeah. I mean, I bet she needed to believe that he didn't do it or that it was all like, I'm sure
01:22:56
he was telling her, of course the husband's suspected. We're always suspected. Hang in there
01:23:00
with me. Well, she wasn't a fucking murderino then because any murderino would have been like,
01:23:04
get the fuck away from me. Yeah. That's, that's, he also told her, um, I told you to trust me when
01:23:10
God closes a door, he opens a window. You're like, what'd you fart or something? Get the
01:23:15
fuck out of here. It's like, you're the hackiest rabbi I've ever heard. You're supposed to
01:23:20
be really eloquent and have like good sayings. Yeah. That's rent a serious man. Uh, okay.
01:23:26
So in May of 2000, Len Janoff, um, goes to a local, Oh no, sorry. That way it was, but
01:23:34
you were telling me what she was like. So she finds out that Elaine. Yeah. So Elaine finds
01:23:40
out that he the cops are like he's having all these other affairs and she's like oh fine then
01:23:44
the blah blah blah and none of this is as i believe it to be but that wasn't that wasn't until
01:23:50
um way later i believe it was she finally tells them that in 1996 but that still circumstantial that could be like the lady that mad because the guy didn pick her Right Totally Whatever When it finally cracks is when Len Janoff goes to
01:24:08
a local reporter and starts telling her about how, um, he was told that, that basically rabbi
01:24:18
Fred Newlander who sorry in the meantime Len Janov becomes the rabbi's spokesperson.
01:24:27
So anytime there's news cameras anytime there's reporters on the front lawn the rabbi sends Len Janov out to talk to them. And this guy is just a bullshitter.
01:24:37
Oh my god. And apparently he was he would he he would call people he would give quotes he was like
01:24:44
way out in front of the story. And he loved to hand out a private investigation, um, business
01:24:50
card, like he, and, and security business card. The whole thing made me think of this Jerry
01:24:57
Pepini guy that's like, Oh, I'll handle this. I'll be the mouthpiece. Like, what are you doing here?
01:25:03
Yeah. Um, another fucking big headed sociopath. Yes. And so they work on that guy for a long
01:25:10
time, he eventually tells a reporter that the rabbi hired him for $30,000 to kill his wife.
01:25:19
He, he spills it. Oh my God. And so he tells the story that, um, him and his friend, Paul Daniels,
01:25:26
who he met in AA and Paul Daniels was 20 years old when this happened. And he, every picture of
01:25:32
him, he looks dumber than the last picture. Like every picture, his mouth is open and it looks like
01:25:38
he can't believe he's where he is. It's super sad. And I know it's wrong to be like, oh, that poor
01:25:45
terrible criminal that murdered this woman. But it really looks like he got looped into something
01:25:50
that he kind of didn't know what was going on. He could be talked into anything. Yes. But I mean,
01:25:56
erase that because still what happened was they knock on the door that night at the house. Carol
01:26:02
answers the door, recognizes the bathroom man. And they come in. She's what happens. She led them
01:26:09
into the house. So for whatever they said to her, the door, she was like, come on in you guys. She
01:26:15
turns around. Well, cause she trusts him because it's her husband's friend. And she turns around
01:26:20
to walk in and one of them hits him, hits her on the back of the head with a pipe and she goes down,
01:26:26
they crack her head open that she goes down in the living room and then and the paul daniels guy
01:26:33
says he did the one hit and then len janov went in and just beat her to death with this pipe
01:26:39
that's the story that guy gives um the and they in the in the city confidential the report this
01:26:48
one reporter describes it where it's like it's a white living room and there's just blood everywhere
01:26:53
Like it's so disturbingly awful. Cause it's like, Oh, you kill a person. That's just like,
01:26:58
yeah, there's blood spatter. There's whatever it's everywhere. The word bludgeoned.
01:27:03
Yeah. Such a horrible word, but terrible, violent death. Yeah. So finally, uh, so finally they get,
01:27:11
the cops get enough evidence so they can indict Fred Neumeier for this new lander.
01:27:17
Sorry for this death. So they go, they have the first trial and, And in that trial, all this stuff comes out.
01:27:26
So it's just like all this gossip from the temple, all the stuff. They, it's just all, they had no idea that their rabbi was this much of a douchebag.
01:27:34
And it all comes out in trial. And, um, the, they find out that the daughter, like, you know, the mother had just said to
01:27:42
the daughter, it's the bathroom. Then they find out that Len Janov had been there the week before on the Tuesday night
01:27:49
when she was supposed to be there by herself, but he got cold feet because when he went in,
01:27:56
Fred Newlander told him it needed to look like a robbery. They needed to be stealing that cake company money.
01:28:02
But when he walked in, he couldn't see her purse. And since he knew he wouldn't be able
01:28:06
to make it look like a robbery, he got cold feet, asked to use the bathroom and then left.
01:28:10
Oh my God. So that's why he's the bathroom man? That's why he's the bathroom man.
01:28:13
He was there. He was supposed to kill her that night and basically punked out. Holy shit.
01:28:19
Yeah. So they, they get it all in trial and the jury's deadlocked and it's declared a mistrial.
01:28:31
Yes. And this is five years, more than five years of police work and lawyers work and everything.
01:28:40
Yeah. It's declared a mistrial. And when it's declared a mistrial, Fred Newlander smiled and the prosecuting
01:28:47
attorney saw him smile and the next morning went down and filed for a retrial immediately.
01:28:55
It's just like, we are doing this again right now. So when the new trial starts, don't eat that
01:29:01
paper. When the new trial starts this time, his children testify for the prosecution. So Rebecca
01:29:09
and Matthew now come and tell the story. And it's, the tone is really different. And he's like,
01:29:16
basically it's very sad the son is just like my father was watching this whole thing and had no
01:29:22
emotions whatsoever and like his mother was murdered and his father didn't care and so awful
01:29:27
anyway at the end of the second trial in 2002 he's declared guilty and um he does this speech at the
01:29:36
end that is the lamest and it's like that thing we've seen before where they just talk about
01:29:40
themselves and how hard it is for them and what a and he actually at one point at the end of this
01:29:46
kind of rambling speech that kind of makes no sense. And he's quoting Bible verse, of course.
01:29:51
And then he goes I and I alone know that I am innocent And then it just like well listen to what you just said Yeah Basically like you just said you super fucking guilty Right right Not being persecuted
01:30:05
No. You're guilty. Yeah. But then after that, Carol's brother, Edward, stands up
01:30:12
and he goes, in the past eight years, you've acted in a manner so repulsive that words cannot begin to describe
01:30:20
the person that you've become. You're a murderer, a liar, a coward, a cheat. You've dishonored Carol, yourself, your children, this court, the rabbinate,
01:30:30
your congregation and Judaism. And I just, as I'm watching city confidential, I'm just like
01:30:37
pausing and writing down every word Edward says. Cause I was like, that's fucking bad.
01:30:42
That's powerful. Like you're basically like do whatever you think you're doing here. It's not
01:30:47
you're humiliating yourself. Yeah. God doesn't like you anymore. That's right. You blew it.
01:30:53
He blew it. So now he's serving a life sentence. Paul Daniels and Len Janoff were both given 23 years for their parts in the crime.
01:31:07
Wow, that's it. Which is kind of insane that they're the ones that swung the fucking pipe.
01:31:12
But it was because it was his plan, Fred's plan. It's like intention. Exactly. Your intention wasn't to kill your wife.
01:31:23
it was to get money for someone else. And also, um, Len Janov was promised that he was going to get,
01:31:29
um, he's going to go be able to go join the Mossad, the, the Israeli army. Oh, it's called him.
01:31:36
So right. That's the Israeli army, the Mossad, or it might be Israeli special forces.
01:31:40
I don't know. But basically he believed that he was going to go from there to then go be
01:31:44
like a super soldier, which just shows that that guy was pretty nuts. Um, he was released from jail in 2014.
01:31:53
and Paul Daniels was released in October of 2014. Are you serious? Oh, yeah. Wait, let me see if I missed anything
01:32:03
because I wish I could show you how insane these pieces of paper look of my handwriting.
01:32:09
I'm handwriting City Confidential. I don't know how you can do that. It's kind of fun to like watch TV
01:32:15
and then be like, this is important and rewriting it down. But I didn't, I went out of order.
01:32:19
um both trials were televised on court tv oh yeah i've never even heard of it i know isn't that
01:32:29
crazy and this is um so this guy arthur j magada wrote a book called the rabbi and the hitman
01:32:36
about this case and this is just one last story from it that i thought was pretty good so a
01:32:43
congregant who was a doctor had been friends with newlander for 20 years and traditionally went to
01:32:48
the rabbi's house for their annual breaking of the fast after yom war and when newlander was
01:32:53
charged with this crime before the trials the physician told the newlander he wasn't going to
01:32:57
keep their tradition and the rabbi wanted to talk it over and so he went to his friend's house
01:33:02
and sitting in the living room that doctor told newlander um why he believed that he had had his
01:33:09
wife killed that newlander never behaved like a grieving widower that when the physician planned
01:33:14
to offer reward for the information about the murder. Newlander asked for the money for himself.
01:33:20
Newlander asked his friend to provide a letter explaining that medication he was taking for a heart problem
01:33:25
would have caused him to fail his lie detector test. And after, and he had a motive
01:33:31
because with his wife gone, he didn't have to worry about the mess of divorce and he could go on with his lady talk show host,
01:33:37
radio talk show host. So Newlander tries to defend himself saying he loved his wife
01:33:42
and then uh the doctor says fred no matter what you say i can't help but like you because you're
01:33:49
charming and you're beguiling but i think you're a psychopath and a murderer and newlander stands
01:33:55
up to leave walks a few steps away then turns back and says well nobody's perfect ew fucking
01:34:03
creep ew uh-huh can you imagine your response still in your house and that's what he says to
01:34:11
I think you killed your wife, so I don't want to hang out with you anymore. And you're a psychopath.
01:34:15
You're a psychopath. Like if someone called me a psychopath, it would ruin me. I'd be like, am I?
01:34:21
No, I'm not. I know. That'd be very hurtful. Yeah. Most people would. What? Yeah.
01:34:27
Also a doctor. A doctor. A doctor. Yeah. You can't argue with it. And he didn't get his degree from Phoenix.
01:34:33
No, I bet you that was a real Cherry Hill doctor. He got his associates from Phoenix.
01:34:37
He actually got a cosmetology degree because he was interested in stuff like that.
01:34:42
And he was like, no, I like medicine. Yeah. I don't like cutting hair. I like cutting people.
01:34:46
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's some fucked up shit. That's the rabbi. That was a good story though.
01:34:51
Okay. Thanks. Good. Cause I really did have it written on nine different pieces of paper.
01:34:56
I'm glad you went after me though, too. Okay. We're back. Karen, this story gets brought up with people I meet randomly more than any other story. I think
01:35:10
I just meet so many people from Cherry Hill, New Jersey. Have you noticed that in your life?
01:35:16
It seems like everybody's from Cherry Hill, New Jersey or the surrounding area for sure.
01:35:21
But also I think that the way, and we could credit the show City Confidential, there's so many
01:35:28
places to credit. But the way this story lays out where it's like someone starting to find
01:35:35
bones in a backyard and just like it's such a typical, horrifying true crime case that I think
01:35:42
so many people just get into it where it's just like, oh, my God, what's actually happening here?
01:35:47
It's such a memorable case that I think anyone from there around that time remembers a rabbi.
01:35:54
He killed his wife. He was this, you know, it's just, it's just been brought up so many times.
01:36:00
But anyway, do you have any updates? Yes. Let's see. In 2024, 82-year-old Fred Newlander was found unresponsive at his New Jersey prison after suffering a sudden medical emergency, and he died at the hospital not long after.
01:36:15
In 2022, there was a musical inspired by this case that they put up here in L.A. called A Wicked Soul in Cherry Hill.
01:36:22
The family was against this, though. The rabbi's congregation was against it. It was a controversial thing, which makes perfect sense. Carol's Classic Cake Company is very much still in business now. It's just called Classic Cake. And it officially reopened in May of 2024, four years after an electrical fire forced them to close.
01:36:44
that grand reopening took place at the Cherry Hill, New Jersey location. And there was a crowd
01:36:50
of loyal customers there. If you want to buy a cake from there, just go to classiccake.com
01:36:54
and you can order a cake from there. Oh, nice. Yeah. I always feel like this somewhat personally
01:37:00
responsible when I find out that a Jewish person is a killer. I feel like it's just this,
01:37:06
ooh, God damn it. Why are you making us look bad? Kind of a thing. Like people don't like us
01:37:11
already. You're making it worse. That's such a culturally Jewish thing for you to say,
01:37:15
because it's like, this is my fault. Somehow I have a piece of this where it's like, no,
01:37:19
you don't. I'm sorry we did that. It's like, you have nothing to do with it. Okay.
01:37:24
But I also do think that because like, especially rabbis, it's such a like, very specific, there's small amount of people that do it. It's, you know, obviously they're
01:37:33
very dedicated. So it's just like this idea that we all think we know. And I, yes, it's Fiddler
01:37:39
on the roof inspired, but it's like, we think we know what this means to be a rabbi, you know what
01:37:45
I mean? To be a religious person and all of this, that then this turn is so like, you're not allowed
01:37:51
to be that way. And it's like, of course, there's a dark side to everybody. There's a something else
01:37:56
going on. You know, those are the people that hide are the people that have these like overtly
01:38:01
spiritual lives. It's totally, I don't know. Yeah, it's creepy. I tried to get you off the
01:38:06
hook there, but I think it was kind of wordsality. No, it's good. It's good. You're right. All right,
01:38:13
let's go back in and we'll listen to our good thoughts of the week from 2017. What were they?
01:38:19
What were we thinking? So we can leave on a slightly, oh yeah, we should talk about
01:38:26
a positive, a thing we like. Yeah. A thing that made us happy. Well, I would say, let's see, mine,
01:38:33
I have been on the couch a lot since we've gone back from Portland. I mean, it takes a lot out of
01:38:41
you. It really does. But then also once I get on the couch, I have a real hard time getting back
01:38:45
off. Like it's just so much easier to stay there. It is. What are you watching? Modern Family. Oh,
01:38:50
yeah. I Tivo'd Modern Family and it is just such a, it's such a well-written show. It's such a good
01:38:59
Joe, the characters are so watchable and likable. I'm so in love with Cam of Mitchell and Cam,
01:39:06
the two gay guys. It's, he's just the best character. It's like, but all of them,
01:39:11
they're just so many good jokes. And that's the thing is it's TV writing is very hard. And
01:39:16
they're there. They have been delivering like a plus grade comedy for like 10 years. I mean,
01:39:24
And all I did was enter it and immediately I'd like 15 episodes of modern family.
01:39:29
And I got it from my sister. I will give her full credit because she been obsessed with it since the moment it came out And that why I have a song where I reference Modern Family where I say in the song if one more person
01:39:41
tells me to watch Modern Family, blah, blah, blah. And a lot of people are like, oh, you hate that
01:39:48
show. It's like, no, no, no. I'm just taking that from a real anecdote of me and my sister. Like
01:39:52
every time I talked to my sister on the phone, she would tell me to watch it. I watched it in the beginning and then I stopped. It's still good.
01:39:58
it's amazing yeah it's just it's just perfectly written yeah um that and i've been having great
01:40:06
lift driver conversations like oh that's nice because you always get scared or i always get
01:40:11
scared that it's like i had a nightmare one the other day and i'm a nightmare person a nightmare
01:40:16
conversationist which means he was just talking at me and i was getting over sick from it and you
01:40:21
go do do earpods earbuds um that's awesome that's a sweet one yeah there's it's been pretty pleasant
01:40:28
but I really, I have to get a car. It's ridiculous. I'm acting like Miss Daisy, but, um,
01:40:34
it's nice sometimes to have like a pleasant conversation where you laugh about how bad drivers in LA are. Yeah. Yeah. What's yours? Um, well, I guess, uh, I just finished
01:40:49
watching it yesterday, but, um, big little lies. Oh yeah. Which I didn't think I would like,
01:40:54
I never read the book even though Audible was always like you might like this you might like
01:40:58
this and I'm like no I won't you know like a brat sure and that's how I do everything yeah I don't
01:41:04
like that it's from Oprah's book club that's the kind of you know and then of course it's fucking
01:41:09
amazing yeah and the show is so good and it was all these female characters that were that their
01:41:15
whole lives weren't based on they had these whole lives around their husbands and families and they
01:41:23
were central characters instead of being the backup singers to you know and it was just like
01:41:28
about them it was about them and their co-star in life was their partner and it was just kind of
01:41:34
cool and the acting was so fucking good and shiley woodley what's her name shailene shailene
01:41:40
she's just like i want she's such a great actress she's so great in it and it was it was really
01:41:45
it was fucked up and good and there's a murder and it's a murder mystery oh okay i didn't know
01:41:51
that because i tried to watch the first i'm i swear to god i don't think i got four minutes in
01:41:57
and the first exchange two women had talking to each other the tones of voice they were using
01:42:02
made me turn my tv off because it was like oh hi arlene nice to see you or whatever like they all
01:42:09
come out as like cunty cunts oh okay and then it's like but there's shit going on underneath the
01:42:14
surface oh i'm going back and it's a it's the whole thing is a murder mystery oh shit and it's
01:42:19
And it's good. And everyone is having these. The Nicole Kidman and Alexander Sarsgaard relationship was amazing.
01:42:26
Cool. Like, you just need to watch it to see the two of them. Nicole Kidman takes a lot of shit, but she's an incredible actress.
01:42:34
They're going to win all the awards. Her and Reese Witherspoon, I think, are going to win it all.
01:42:39
I sent my friend a GIF the other day. Remember when she was clapping at the Oscars?
01:42:44
Yes. Someone made that. And I can't figure out if someone did this to the GIF or if this is really what it looked like.
01:42:50
But it looks like her fingers are this. Like she looks like she has alien fingers as she's clapping.
01:42:56
I think that's real. Is it what her hands really look like? I don't know. I saw that too.
01:43:00
And I think it's real. We were laughing. I was laughing anyway when I found it because it looks like flippers Yeah It looks like her nails are wet and she trying not to let them near each other But also that she from Mars Yeah That aside that me giving her shit when I say she takes a lot of shit
01:43:20
But she, for example, when she started acting in fucking those Australian, you know, I'm
01:43:26
the pretty girl at the prep school. Right. She has been an incredible. Did you ever see dead calm or she's on the boat?
01:43:32
Oh, my God. if you want to see like an amazing murder, like it's a whole not horror, I guess it'd be suspense
01:43:41
or something action, but it's her and Sam Neill, I think, and somebody else they're on a boat.
01:43:47
It's so good. And she is like, it's when she had her kinky curly hair and she had her freckles and
01:43:52
she was probably 20. She's so beyond gorgeous. Yeah. She's gorgeous. Yeah. And she still is to
01:43:57
this day. They all play these wealthy, these wealthy women from Monterey and everyone has
01:44:04
these secrets underneath kind of a thing. And it's, there's some, you know, it's good.
01:44:10
I'm going back. It's fine. This is a, you need a, I was bummed that I didn't binge watch it because I had to
01:44:15
wait a week to watch the new one. So get in there. Go binge. Yeah. Also Adam Scott's in it, who I adore.
01:44:20
Adam Scott's in it. He plays a really great character. It's, he's fun. Okay, good.
01:44:25
Yeah. That's a good rec. Yeah, for sure. So that made me happy this week. Anything else we need to...
01:44:35
Oh, I think that we said last episode was like 60. I said it was like 67 and it was 62 or something.
01:44:42
I was off by a lot. What's the numbers? Sid, this is 63. But didn't last week I say it was like 67?
01:44:49
Oh, yeah, yeah, 67. I mean... Who cares? Yeah, we're up there. We passed 50. It's not like someone was setting their watch back.
01:44:56
Oh, shit. It's already. I said I was going to do this thing in my life before 67 happened.
01:45:00
And now they're like, you know what? I'm going to stop smoking around episode 67.
01:45:06
Yeah. And if I haven't, then I am going to start smoking. OK, and we're back. OK, so this episode was actually originally titled Stephen's Tuxedo Genius.
01:45:20
I mean it kind of almost makes you think that Stephen is a tuxedo cat a little black and white
01:45:26
cat that's what it made me think yeah I picture those like tuxedo t-shirts from the 80s on him
01:45:33
well if we were naming it today there's many choices for us to rename it what about like
01:45:40
for example what if we called it what about the treble about that Las Vegas DJ Stephen
01:45:46
or you're welcome ben mendelson where we're actually casting the lifetime movie of course
01:45:55
and then i like this one it's me pam that's right i forgot about my character pam that that used to come up all the time i did too we
01:46:07
should bring her back did we use pam in the um 10 foot skeleton maybe maybe we had to retire it
01:46:15
because that's the most famous Pam. Oh, was that Deb? I think you're right. Maybe it was Pam or Deb or someone.
01:46:21
Has this all been real? It's 10 year folly adieu. Oh my God. Well, thank you guys for listening
01:46:27
to another episode of Rewind. Let's let Elvis and Mimi say goodbye. Where's Elvis?
01:46:38
Well, you guys, thank you for listening. Tell a friend. Guys thank you for everything You are our light and honor honor system and heart and soul and honor system
01:46:52
And mostly you're our honor system. Yeah. If you take a penny, you leave a penny in our hearts.
01:46:59
You've left a penny. You left a penny in my heart. Don't, I'll put a nickel in yours.
01:47:06
You're going to double down. Well, thanks for listening. I don't need to. I don't know.
01:47:12
I have no idea. Thank you for listening. Thank you for everything. Oh, does Mimi want to come and make her debut?
01:47:20
Maybe she does. I mean. Her triple. Her triple appearance? Yeah. Third time's a charm, Mimi.
01:47:25
Stay sexy, everybody. And don't get murdered. Mimi. Bye. Bye. Mimi, you want a cookie?
01:47:31
Mimi. Mimi. Mimi. She's like, wait a minute. I'm talking to her. Good girl. God, it's cute.
01:47:38
She's the Nicole Kidman of cats. She is. Maybe? Want a cookie? Want a cookie? Oh, Elvis. Here he is. Want a cookie?
01:47:54
Vacation planning should feel like a breeze, not a deep dive into countless travel sites searching for the best deal.
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01:48:19
Goodbye. Clothes shopping, not as easy or fun as it sounds. You just want to feel confident in your clothes.
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01:49:04
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01:49:10
That's stitchfix.com slash murder. Goodbye. Georgia, you know that moment in the afternoon when your brain stops working and then you start looking for a little treat?
01:49:18
Yeah, I guess it's less of a moment for me and more of an all-day thing, honestly.
01:49:22
Okay, well, if you're looking for a little treat that also fuels you, there's cachava.
01:49:27
Cachava is an all-in-one nutrition shake made with high-quality ingredients. Cachava is a full plant-based meal that supports your whole body and actually tastes good.
01:49:35
Cachava provides clean nutrition to fuel wherever your day takes you. No fillers, no nonsense.
01:49:40
Just two scoops provide 25 grams of protein, 6 grams of fiber, greens, adaptogens, and so much more.
01:49:46
It's available in seven great flavors, including their brand new coffee flavor made with premium decaffeinated Brazilian beans.
01:49:52
I gotta tell you that I am a cachava user and believer. Same. Because it just gets it done for me in the morning.
01:49:59
Yeah. I get a baseline of nutrition and sustenance. You just have this drink that kind of coats your stomach.
01:50:05
Yeah. Before I start drinking a bunch of coffee. It's like this will take care of it.
01:50:09
Yeah. One and done. Treat yourself to the flavor and nutrition your body craves.
01:50:13
Go to cachava.com and use code MFM for 15% off. That's cachava, K-A-C-H-A-V-A dot com, code MFM.
01:50:21
Goodbye.