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00:01:36
How much you weigh, Wanda? Right now, I'm about 130. I'm at 183. We should race.
00:01:41
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00:01:45
I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests. On a recent episode, I sat down with undisputed boxing champ,
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00:02:21
Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. Every Wednesday we recap our old shows with all new commentary updates and insights, and you're welcome.
00:02:32
Today we're recapping episode 71, which we named Put It in a Door. That's right. It'll make sense later.
00:02:40
Yeah, exactly. This episode came out on June 1st, 2017. So let's listen to the intro of episode 71.
00:02:49
Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder. This is a podcast and that's Karen Kilgareff.
00:02:55
And that's Over There Georgia Hardstark. Hi. We're the hosts. We're the hosts. This is all planned out.
00:03:01
Super. And it's very naturally delivered. We're actually reading a teleprompter right now.
00:03:07
It's one of those invisible ones. So if you were looking at us, you wouldn't be able to see it.
00:03:11
But we can see the words that are scrolling on it. Stephen's actually mouthing the words to us that we have to be saying right now.
00:03:16
Yes, Steven's in down below the stage in a little half shell, the way they used to do it in the operetta times, whispering our lines to us.
00:03:24
Yeah, we have a little earpiece in. We're like newscasters, but Steven is the director up in the control room.
00:03:31
Yeah, breaking news. None of that's true. Breaking news, this podcast is starting.
00:03:36
In case you couldn't tell. In five. That was a ruse. The whole thing. It was a trick.
00:03:42
The whole thing has been a trick. I think my cat barfed on the couch I'm sitting.
00:03:48
Can you smell it or feel it? I don't want to say feel it, but that's true. But that might be the horrible truth.
00:03:55
Yeah. Well, off to a gross start. Yay. How's it going? Really good. I'm getting over what I believe to be near death pneumonia,
00:04:08
but it's probably just a standard chest cold. It's probably the plague. Knocked me out.
00:04:13
I didn't get to do anything I wanted to do last weekend or week. So I'm a little bit like when you don't see anybody for four days and then you're all like, everything's real intense.
00:04:23
And you forget how to speak to people. You've only been yelling at your dogs, probably.
00:04:28
I will probably tell you the plot of a sitcom as conversation where it's like, and then she walked in the kitchen.
00:04:34
It was so crazy. What did you watch? Like, did you have like a thing that you got through the whole time?
00:04:39
Um, I did start watching a series on, I have a, one of those, I won't name the name of it
00:04:47
because I don't like it that much, but it's one of those, uh, we have all the British
00:04:51
shows apps. Um, so I watched a bunch of obscure British procedurals that weren't the best and also
00:04:58
weren't the worst. So I, that's sometimes I'm in the mood for just truly mediocre television and I can just
00:05:05
watch a ton of it. You know what I did the other night? I was home alone and I was like scrolling and you can't decide what to watch. And like my TV, whatever kind it is, like pop, it pops up all these options. And one of them was YouTube. And I'm like, who the fuck watches YouTube on television? Like it's a very foreign thing to me.
00:05:21
The children. Yeah. And so I like kind of clicked on it to see like what videos they were like offering. And I got in a deep, dark hole of, of men doing tutorials of makeup. Yes. I mean, they were fucking famous. And they were talking about like the scan, like, like they were talking to these people who watch it every day. Yeah. And they're like, I know this thing happened. And people said this about me on the internet, like their stories. And like, I looked one of them up because I was like, what happened?
00:05:50
And like one of them said something kind of racist on accident. And it was just this whole world that I am not familiar with at all And now you like right front and center like bring me that drama on that YouTube drama Yeah Did you see the one that the little boy
00:06:06
doing that insane makeover and whoever tweeted it, it was this great short video of a boy who
00:06:11
maybe was nine or 10 doing insanely amazing makeup on himself. Incredible makeup. And the person that
00:06:18
tweeted it said some fucked up thing. Like, yeah. Like what would you do if this was your child?
00:06:24
and all these huge famous people and all these awesome people and cool people wrote back like
00:06:30
Samantha Ronson, the DJ, she wrote back, like, sit back and enjoy the, um, the life he's going
00:06:37
to give me as like, as a, you know, business, like basically he's going to be rich and famous.
00:06:42
He's going to take care of me as his parent. And like all David Cross wrote back, throw my Bible
00:06:47
away and love him unconditionally. And all this stuff where it's just like, it's this world where
00:06:52
it's so funny when people get onto social media thinking that they're going to like rally their
00:06:56
troops in one way where it's like no that's not the world anyone lives in anymore yeah little
00:07:01
boys doing amazing like contour kardashian level makeup is standard fare yeah and is welcome have
00:07:10
you seen the the little kids who do the bad ones no one little girl like was like clearly obsessed
00:07:17
with makeup tutorials because she knew exactly how to do everything and she might have been like
00:07:22
seven or eight. And so she just like sneaks into her mom's room and she's like whispering the whole
00:07:28
time and like starts doing a makeup tutorial and just makes her face look like how a seven-year-old
00:07:33
would make think you put makeup on. And it was just the cutest thing. And I think her mom comes
00:07:39
in at the end and she's like, oh shit, I gotta go. It was just like, it's so sweet. I love it.
00:07:46
Also, I can watch because my friend April Richardson's obsessed with makeup tutorials and makeup herself.
00:07:53
So there have been times where she's good at it. She's really. Yeah, she's and she's all goth.
00:07:58
So she's all about like, I'm going to wear a blue lipstick and this red eyeshadow.
00:08:01
But there was a night where we were started to watch some. It may have been like a Republican debates night or something where we got into something really tense and upsetting.
00:08:09
And then at the end of that, she's like, hold on. And then just flipped on this girl that was just doing this insane, like Susie Sue, amazing eye makeup.
00:08:17
And it's so soothing to watch someone. It's just like watching an artist draw. A bunch of people on Twitter were like, because I tweeted about a bunch of people commenting, like, try the hair ones.
00:08:27
I bet the hair ones are so soothing. My niece Nora is obsessed with the hair ones.
00:08:31
There are two sisters. There's a whole family. Are they like twins or something?
00:08:35
They're twins. And then the mother's a hairdresser. So she'll get in there and be like, here's Elsa's hair from Frozen.
00:08:40
And here's this, this, this. Well, now these girls, they started when they were like 10 years old.
00:08:44
Now they're in high school. And my sister's like, they're like Nora's friends. That's like, she's been watching.
00:08:50
No way. Oh, right, right, right. Yeah. So they get on there and they're like, here's our first day of school hair.
00:08:55
And then they show you what they're going to do. And they show your mom how to do your hair.
00:08:59
Basically. It's the cutest. I love it. Yeah. For them. God bless us. Everyone bless us.
00:09:06
And good night. Good night. This has been YouTube Corner. What do we have? Oh, you have that email.
00:09:14
Oh, I have an email to read to you guys. A real good one. It's a kind of a correction.
00:09:19
It's a clarification corner. Yeah. Is that a new thing? It's called Tip from NYPD.
00:09:26
I was just listening. Maybe that should be a whole new area. Tips from the NYPD.
00:09:30
Great. Yeah. Everyone, send in your tips. And this is actually a guy who sent us a tip, or no, a woman who sent us a tip from a friend
00:09:37
who was in the NYPD. So you don't directly need to be secondhand tips. Yeah. We're all about it.
00:09:42
Secondhand tips from those in the now corner. Yeah. It has to, the source has to be factual
00:09:48
and in the know though. Please keep that in mind. But we're not going to do any fact checking. No,
00:09:52
that's on you. You don't need to either. Okay. Hi. It's really, it's really structured. There's
00:09:56
a lot of rules. It's more of a storytelling corner. Yeah. Don't just don't. Okay. Hi. I was
00:10:02
just listening to you guys explain that you should ask a cop to see their ID and their badge in which
00:10:06
we talked about recently and wanted to share a recommendation from a friend of mine who
00:10:10
was a retired NYPD after 20 years. If a cop, quote, cop comes to your door and you weren't expecting them, you shouldn't open
00:10:17
the door. You should call 911 and ask the operator if they're supposed to be cop at your house.
00:10:22
Yes. The 911 operator should confirm with the officers and you should be able to hear that confirmation
00:10:28
over the police radio through the door, which is like so intense. And I feel like most people would be like, oh, I don't want to be like, that's intense.
00:10:36
That's a lot of steps. If they aren't a real cop, you won't hear that and won't get confirmation.
00:10:42
And 911 will know that there is an impersonator at your door. And it'll be an impersonator.
00:10:48
So even if you're like, oh, I went through too many steps, you now have a person that was trying to get into your house.
00:10:55
And you now have 911 on the line. And you know they're not the little shit. And it's like, well, I would be like, well, what if they break my door down?
00:11:01
Which they can't do unless they have a warrant. But then it would be the police.
00:11:05
and that would mean if they were breaking your door down, that would mean you were in there with like a hostage or something.
00:11:10
I mean, like that's, yeah, they don't break your door down when they just need to come and talk to you.
00:11:14
Right. But if the guy, if the killer breaks your door down, then you're already on the phone with 911.
00:11:19
That's right. That's exactly right. Also, it's not going to happen. I mean, what are the fucking chances?
00:11:25
Get a new front door if it's that easy. Yeah. Our old front door at my old place was like a bedroom door.
00:11:33
Was it really? Yeah, it was like hollow. I know this because I fucking patched over it.
00:11:38
But I put a note in it first, but it was just a total hollow bedroom door. What did the note say?
00:11:45
It was like a wish. Oh. Which I don't do very often, but it came true. I think it said like, I wish to be mildly successful and very happy.
00:11:54
Fucking I don need to be like extreme I not asking for everything Wait a second Did you just start a new trend of putting wishes inside doors and patching over
00:12:06
I mean, that's amazing. I think it's a thing of like hiding wishes. There's a wishing tree in Griffith Park on a path. And someone just puts paper and a pen
00:12:17
up there. And there's like a hollow in the tree and you just drop your wish in there. Huh? What
00:12:21
would your wish be? Tree or door? Because it's two different scenarios. It could be tree, door,
00:12:27
birthday, cake, anything. Oh, aren't you not supposed to say? Can you tell? You can probably
00:12:31
say the door wish. I'll tell Steven and then he'll tell you. Okay. It could be, you know,
00:12:35
because Steven's such a gossip. Okay. How about, because I just told the door wish, the door wish
00:12:39
you're allowed to say, but the birthday and tree you're not allowed to say. Oh, well, right now it
00:12:44
would be to meet somebody that was exciting. That would make me not feel dead inside anymore.
00:12:51
Yeah. So you're not going to meet like a nice what I don't know what's a job that a guy could be that architect.
00:12:56
Yeah. A trade like something that's just like you're self-sufficient and you're not your job isn't to judge or rate other people.
00:13:04
I always thought mechanics probably were cool who like specialize in a certain kind of like old car and they're like the best in their trade or tattoo artists would be fun.
00:13:13
Tattoo artists would be very cool. Yeah. Yeah. Just like one of those guys, you know, sometimes you see people fixing the road as you drive
00:13:22
by, they've got like a hard hat and an orange shirt. Yeah. Like that's the hottest guy I've ever seen and will ever see.
00:13:27
And he's probably so down to earth. Right. Well. Well, let's punch a hole in your door and let's get the wishing going.
00:13:35
Let's do it. Let's do it in my closet door, which is a mirror. Oh, that'd be fun.
00:13:43
And then you have seven years. Good luck, right? This is a classic example of if you've just tuned in, you have no idea what this podcast is about or why.
00:13:53
It's a what the fuck moment for all of you. Don't worry. We'll get to the murder.
00:13:56
Don't worry about it. It's going to get real dark. So calm down if you're really into dark stuff.
00:14:00
And then we're going to talk about the keepers. So this is we've been people have been asking us over and over, obviously, on social media to talk about these these things, these things that come up that are true crime.
00:14:12
These TV shows, these TV shows. Or like, yeah. And the keepers. So I watched it. I did the thing where I started watching it in the afternoon and then stayed up all night watching the entire thing.
00:14:22
I think I texted you and was like, I'm about to start this. I think we like press play at the same time.
00:14:28
We did. And then we texted for the beginning. And then I think we both stopped because we were both just like so engrossed in it.
00:14:33
Yeah. Well, I had to leave. Or you had to leave. I stopped. We stopped talking. Right.
00:14:39
And I had to pause it and I was so mad. I had to go to a show. and all I wanted to do is come back and keep watching it.
00:14:47
It's the most amazing series about, it starts off, you think you know what it's about.
00:14:54
Here's how I keep explaining it to people who don't know. A nun gets killed in the late 60s.
00:15:00
She's a high school teacher. She's a wonderful person. You think that's what it's about.
00:15:04
And then next episode and the rest of it is priest, who was the principal? fucking all the little the high school students did she get killed are they are they this is
00:15:18
exactly how i explain it this is not how i explain it usually i've had two white wines before i
00:15:22
explain it and it's a lot and you're yelling over music in a bar yeah and and i'm yelling at somebody
00:15:26
who doesn't want doesn't care about true crime right okay so you go well no i mean it is all
00:15:30
that i think he was the counselor though okay so but he was definitely like the parishioner i don't
00:15:35
know you tell me yeah i'll tell you all about it so in the catholic church yeah um let's start from
00:15:40
the beginning of the time. They brought him in. So it's a Catholic high school in Baltimore.
00:15:46
All girls. All girls high school. And they bring this guy in as a counselor. And so the girls get
00:15:54
called into the counselor's office. And the way they tell, okay, first of all, let's just say this.
00:16:01
You meet these two women who had gone to that school, were taught by Sister Kathy, the nun that
00:16:06
got murdered and they are trying to find out her cold case, how she got murdered, why she got
00:16:11
murdered, what happened. Because one of them is how is having these memories repressed. She's an,
00:16:16
she's an old, you know, she's in her forties. She's a mom and a wife with the fucking best
00:16:21
husband. Am I wrong? He's like the best. Yes. That's a different, I'm talking about this too,
00:16:26
that everyone's saying are the Karen and Georgia murder, Reno, uh, characters, The actual investigative, and they're the best.
00:16:35
They're the best. All you want to do is sit at that kitchen table with them and talk about this stuff.
00:16:39
Kat Solon said she's going to be the redheaded one for Halloween. Like, that's the best thing I've ever heard in my life.
00:16:44
That woman is so awesome. I wish I'd looked up her name. But they're just basically going, we loved our teacher.
00:16:51
We want to know. We don't think it's right that she was murdered and that the case went cold.
00:16:55
We want to know what happened. And in their digging, they start finding out these things.
00:17:00
simultaneously but not not knowing across town the woman georgia was talking about starts having
00:17:06
uh her repressed memories start coming to her of things that happened to her um and they're and
00:17:12
when she breaks down crying at her table yeah after she tells a very detail i mean these two
00:17:19
women who come forward who are the jane does are so brave i can't even handle it yeah because what
00:17:24
happened to them. It's the thing. And this is the thing that happens. It's so upsetting when you
00:17:29
watch these like Catholic church molestation stories. It's the absolute abuse of power
00:17:35
and the predatory nature of these priests or, you know, whatever, whoever the story is about.
00:17:41
But in this case, this priest who would pick girls who he knew had single parents,
00:17:47
he knew their parents had been recently divorced. He knew that they were maybe going through some stuff themselves.
00:17:52
Maybe even already being molested So it was like well it almost like if you in the wild had to be like here are the steps of how children how how people pick children get molested because these
00:18:05
people have free reign and it's like point for point, the grooming and the threatening and these,
00:18:11
it's just so awful. It's awful. And it's the thing of back then, because I think it was 1970,
00:18:17
right? I think it was like 68 or 69 when she got murdered. Okay. Maybe 70. Yeah. But basically in
00:18:24
that realm. This was back when if a priest called you to his office, you just get up and leave class
00:18:31
and go. And nobody around would go, why is he calling you there? You don't need to be alone
00:18:37
in an office with that man. There was nothing quite the opposite where they had complete power
00:18:44
over where children went, what they did when they went there. You were special if you got called to the office almost.
00:18:50
Yes. And, oh, and the worst part is that priest found the woman who you were talking about. We should know these people's names. And I can't remember. But that woman who broke down when she was telling that story, she went to him and in confession, confessed to him that she had been molested as a child.
00:19:11
Right. And that's how he knew to pick on her. And he said she asked for forgiveness. And he was like, I don't know if you I don't know if we can do that. And I'll help you get for. Oh, it's listen.
00:19:20
Let me tell you this as a Catholic, uh, for a long, long life Catholic, sorry, did I yell?
00:19:26
Steven just pulled his thing off, but let me tell you this, the way confession works is you go into
00:19:31
that box, you spill your guts and the priest who is, who is there as a, um, as like a, what do you
00:19:38
call that? Almost like the symbol of God, he's there to go because in the Bible it says you ask
00:19:44
for forgiveness and you get it. So, and people know this now, but it makes me so mad because
00:19:49
in that moment when he said, I don't know if God can forgive you. Ding, ding, ding, red light. No,
00:19:55
that it's not yours to say. Well, how scary to know that he forgives everything and accept this
00:20:01
thing that you've done. Yeah. Anyways, I think the Keepers is one of the fucking best one
00:20:08
documentaries. I am engrossed. I have 20 fucking minutes left and I almost don't want to get through
00:20:12
it. On that last episode? Yeah. Yes. Cause you don't want to let it go. It's like seven episodes,
00:20:16
I think. And it is just, yeah. The reason I found the YouTube thing is because I needed a break
00:20:20
because I was so fucking engrossed and depressed about it. It's so heavy. It's so much to like
00:20:25
absorb. Yeah. But, uh, I will also say this, the person, I believe the director's name was Ryan
00:20:31
White. Um, the one name I remember and kudos to him because in those interviews, when people start
00:20:38
crying, they must have felt a level of comfort talking to him about this and the way he conducted
00:20:44
those interviews, not only when he was talking to the victims, did they really share so much of
00:20:50
themselves and like, obviously feel comfortable enough to express their real emotions, which is
00:20:55
a very difficult thing to do. But then like what later on, when he was talking to that guy who is
00:21:00
now in charge, the Baltimore police chief, where he was just hearing these things and then going,
00:21:07
yeah, we'll have to look. But you saw on his face, he was like, what the hell is going on that he's
00:21:12
being informed about how these cases were handled in the past. And then the interview with the guy who's the suspect?
00:21:20
Yes. That old dude? Oh, my God. And the other thing that drives me crazy, of course, because this is our fucking thing
00:21:26
that we hate, is that the only reason the statute of limitations isn't up on this molestation
00:21:31
charge is because it's a repressed memory that just came through. So they have to prove in court not only that they were molested, but that they just remembered
00:21:42
it. Yes. Which is must be impossible to prove in itself. But how sick is that? Yeah. How sick is that that if you didn't remember it later, you you couldn't prosecute, you couldn't go after this. The statute of limitations is makes me fucking ill. And I think someday we're going to be if the fucking apocalypse hasn't come already, we're going to be.
00:22:05
I feel like that is changing in some places. I don't know about Baltimore, but yeah, the, when they all start going and it's not just that school or just that specific priest, but there's a part near the end where a lot of people are going to talk about how that means that law needs to change.
00:22:21
There's a lot of victims, I think, who get their power back by changing laws. And I think that's a big one.
00:22:29
Unfortunately, most of those are never retroactive. Right. Which is such a, again, it's such a fucking bummer and it pisses me off.
00:22:36
It's insane. Especially because, you know, with these sexual molestations and even, you know, and rapes and all these things, it's like victims don't want to come forward right away because it's traumatic and it's opening them again.
00:22:47
but once they get their strength and are older. But by then... Well, the crazy part is everything becomes dependent on a person who's been victimized.
00:22:57
It's really amazing to having done this podcast for the short amount of time that we've done it,
00:23:03
how much I've come to learn and understand about the victims and the positions they get put in and how much is put on them.
00:23:13
So it's like, so no one's going, I mean, not that no one is, But it's it was like so it's all just depending on whether or not this girl who has been traumatized and victimized and truly like her entire childhood has been completely ruined and screwed up.
00:23:31
And and she's just blocked entire things out and all this stuff. But it's all just on her shoulders.
00:23:36
Yeah. Nothing is on that fucking monster priest. Well, it's that thing of like innocent until proven guilty, the person being accused, but the person who's accusing them is lying until proven otherwise almost, which is just not.
00:23:49
It's like I know innocent until proven guilty is a strong thing in our society and it's needed and necessary, but it's that that means that the person who is bringing the charges is a liar and.
00:24:00
tell proven otherwise. Well, when you have those kinds of lawyers, the lawyers that were the lawyers
00:24:05
for the Catholic church that were defending this priest, uh, I don't know how they sleep at night.
00:24:11
I don't know how they sleep at night, especially after this, after this, I was going to say podcast,
00:24:15
after this series where you're just like the, the, the way they were arguing and the things that they
00:24:21
did and said, and the fact that ultimately the fact that they are supposed to be representatives
00:24:26
of the church is just the ultimate hypocrisy and the shittiest. Just like, what are you fighting for?
00:24:34
You got to look at that. You're basically accusing these people of like, they're going to sacrifice their whole
00:24:41
life and credibility because they're trying to chisel money out of you. I don't think so.
00:24:46
They can't even come out as their real names or Jane Doe because they will be fucking attacked
00:24:51
by not just the church, but people who are Catholic. Like it's just every fucking every episode.
00:24:56
Don't skip one. There's like a new revelation. That's fucking incredible. But it's really hard to watch.
00:25:01
It's very hard to watch. And also it's pre-spotlight. So like, yeah, they were really the first ones that made an actual dent and a mark.
00:25:10
And I remember, but I just didn't separate the cities because I remember the spotlight
00:25:14
things happening in Boston. Right. But the these ones that happened in Baltimore, they this Jane Doe, these two women really
00:25:21
were the ones that came forward and like started making a dent at least. I had never heard of it.
00:25:26
I mean, it's an incredible show. Gotta watch it. It's amazing. Yeah. Next week on shows we love,
00:25:35
we'll talk about Mommy Dead and Dearest. That's right. I know we owe you guys. Yes. However,
00:25:39
the keepers came and it was just like, oh my, all my attention is here. Amazing. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
00:25:44
how much longer do we have even seven minutes episode over um who goes first first questions uh karen does this week okay okay
00:25:56
and we are back so this has to be before the time that elvis barfed on steven's laptop
00:26:05
right and i had to buy him a new one i think we were in australia for that one that's right we were away so it's a different cat barf yeah this one is more
00:26:14
I think the cats were kind of looking at the loft like that's where they can really go and get a bunch of stuff out of their system.
00:26:21
Right? I mean, literally an hour and a half ago, I cleaned up cat barf. So there's no rhyme or reason.
00:26:27
Frank stood up in the middle of the night and did several huge wheezy coughs. And then he coughed something up.
00:26:33
And then we all just kind of, I was like, yeah, that's pets. Is it bad podcasting to say the worst part now of having a dog is that she wants to eat the barf?
00:26:44
That's not good podcasting. No one wants to fucking hear that, right? Is it off topic for the Rewind episodes?
00:26:49
It's hard to say. I've been doing this 10 years plus. I should know not to talk about that.
00:26:55
I mean, but it's part of our lives. It's part of the... How many items have we gotten even on this tour from people in the meet and greets with cat stuff?
00:27:04
Oh, my God. My cat now, Mo, comes to and looks in my bag when I get home now from tour because I brought him so many catnip toys that are shaped like weapons.
00:27:14
That's right. It's part of the culture of this podcast. That's right. We love it.
00:27:19
Speaking of. Just like YouTube is part of the culture of this podcast. I love that we're talking about it back then.
00:27:24
Like, who would watch YouTube? I know. YouTube and makeup tutorials. Like, that's now basically what your life revolves around.
00:27:30
My God, it's the TikTok version, the cleaner, way more influence-y, I need to buy this right now version.
00:27:38
It's rough. I've started scrolling past, like, even my favorite dermatologists that I follow and, like, estheticians, I can't keep being told that, no, not that one, this one.
00:27:49
No, not that one, this one. No, not that. I can't keep doing that. I've got them all.
00:27:54
I've collected them all. If they don't work, then I'm fucked. That's fine. There's just nothing to be done.
00:27:59
And also, I'm starting to get influenced by the D influencers who are like, you don't need this.
00:28:04
Oh, yeah. And then you're like, but I already bought it. I know. But it is kind of nice to see that where people are kind of like, hey, look, this is like they'll go through all the newest items at Sephora and be like, you don't need another glossy lip balm.
00:28:17
Totally. Or like, don't do it. This ingredient is not going to help you fix this problem.
00:28:23
That doesn't work that way. You know, we're like, there's no such nature's Botox.
00:28:28
Botox is natural. Like, it's Botox. Yeah. Yeah. I like the de-influencer thing. I do, too.
00:28:36
It's a real relief. And we are true de-influencers. We are nothing if not de-influencers.
00:28:42
So if you want to see us on YouTube, you can go over to myfavoritemurder.video or search
00:28:47
My Favorite Murder on YouTube because we've got all kinds of videos up there. Yeah, we have our own channel now.
00:28:51
Isn't that exciting? Yeah. Brag, brag. I was cringing when I was listening to this because there's so much that's changed.
00:28:59
culturally, since we talked about you don't have to open the door to police and they need a warrant.
00:29:07
Like, oh, that was 2017. So different. So different. And also just, it was the end of, you know, there's a lot of people in that,
00:29:16
the kind of criticism that we used to get where you talk about the police or like, you know,
00:29:19
I would talk about like my family that was in the San Francisco Police Department or whatever.
00:29:23
And people would be like, you guys are, you know, part of the problem. And it was hard to imagine what that meant.
00:29:31
And now we know full well what it looks like and what it is. And it's on the streets and it's this overstepping and out of control.
00:29:39
And it's just like, yeah. Good intentions don't change things and don't really matter in the scope of things.
00:29:47
Yeah. They're going to invade Portland. They're going to invade Portland is the newest insane blitzkrieg.
00:29:54
It just like what happening Yeah Either we living in a fugue state or we living in a fucking fascist fascism state It number two
00:30:05
It's straight up number two. I love that you started off with like, is talking about cat barf bad podcasting?
00:30:10
And it's like, or reminding everybody of just how we have so quickly slipped down this slippery slope.
00:30:18
It's wild. These are the deep cut people. That's true. That want to hear. Well, because it's weird to hear that and understand 10 years later how naive what we're saying is.
00:30:28
I mean, you could also do that if you recorded your family dinners. The exact same thing would happen a decade later and you re-listen to it.
00:30:37
I mean, that's why we're doing these rewinds ultimately. And that's why it took us so long to figure out how to do it correctly.
00:30:43
Because we knew that shit like this would come up and we'd have to hear it and feel it and cringe through it and listen.
00:30:50
And then the point is to correct it and to acknowledge it. So that's really what these, we'd rather you listen to this and us acknowledging that
00:30:58
than this naked, you know, way back when. Yes. Right? Right. I think it's, these early episodes really do need like the director's cut audio guide
00:31:12
because what the hell? Yeah. Context. We totally get it. Yeah. I just also have to say that I really wish I was being more erudite as I spoke. I'm so goddamn tired right now that like the words are not coming to my brain.
00:31:27
I forgot how exhausting touring is on your, like I, there, every day we get back from tour, I sleep the rest of the day.
00:31:36
Yeah. Like in a coma sleep and I forgot. And I talked to my therapist about it and I'm like, I knew I didn't like touring.
00:31:46
Like I knew that. And yet I did it again. And she blamed it on dissociation, which I appreciate.
00:31:52
But also there's more to it. It's like we oversimplified at the end. I love live shows.
00:31:58
I don't like touring. Yes, exactly. You know? Exactly. If we could only have it brought to us.
00:32:05
And it's also we're tired because of the highs. It's not all lows. Yes. It's like these incredible emotional moments that we get to share with people, the entire audience, and then people face to face for a couple hours after the show.
00:32:18
It's like there's a lot going on. It's very much like overstimulation. Yeah. Just peak emotion.
00:32:25
like imagine being at a wedding every day. It's kind of what it's like. And you're like,
00:32:31
you're not the bride or groom, but you're high up on the, you know, maybe you're the mother of the
00:32:34
bride. So like you have a lot of duties and it's exhausting. Now you have to do that two days in a
00:32:40
row, come back, work, go back and do it two days in a row. Right? Yes. Then you start, you stop
00:32:47
parsing the good and the bad and you're just like, this is too hard or whatever, but it is,
00:32:51
that's just the tired part. It's like, it actually is pretty incredible. And it is a thing where we
00:32:57
wouldn't be able to know the truth about what this podcast means to anybody if we didn't do this,
00:33:03
because what we see online and hear online is just a version of something. It's just a,
00:33:08
we don't even know where it's coming from. We don't know the source. But when you have somebody
00:33:12
standing there in front of you, like holding your hands and the girl who had the sign that said,
00:33:16
I wish you knew we were best friends, which is, and then she brought it through. And I was like,
00:33:21
that makes me want to cry. That's the sweetest, kind of loveliest idea. Yeah. Let's get into the part where you wrote a wish on a piece of paper and put it in your door.
00:33:31
Oh my God, little Georgia. I just want to go give her a hug because my expectations for myself were
00:33:41
so low and so basic that I didn't even wish for anything bigger than that. I never, ever have.
00:33:50
I've never wished for anything more than like the here and now. Right. And, you know, the here and now and the knowledge to be grateful for it.
00:33:57
And so I did that in that door and it quadrupled at least. Yeah. Kind of cool. Yeah.
00:34:05
It's very cool. My life is so fucking incredibly different than it was when we recorded this.
00:34:12
But yeah, the same people are in it that I love and everyone's pretty healthy still,
00:34:18
except for Elvis. Well, he came in unhealthy. He came in as an old cat. He did. Bless his heart.
00:34:28
Yeah. Yeah. It's pretty sweet. Yeah, for sure. All right. Well, then I guess let's just get into true crime.
00:34:33
I mean, that's what we're here for. That's right. All right. Let's get into Karen's story
00:34:37
from 2017 about the vampire rapist. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was.
00:34:50
Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets.
00:35:01
Just then, we felt the plane turn in the air. So much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.
00:35:10
Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy. how it shapes our identities and relationships
00:35:16
and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know
00:35:23
but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything
00:35:27
and me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.
00:35:33
And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off and that was the last time I saw him.
00:35:38
Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:35:46
I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families.
00:35:55
Late one night Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything
00:36:06
I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:36:17
Hi, I'm Chris Fairbanks. And I'm Karen Kilgariff. We host Do You Need a Ride? the mobile comedy podcast that answers the question,
00:36:24
what does it sound like when we drive our comedian friends around the wild streets of Los Angeles?
00:36:28
Yes, every week we pick up a hilarious guest, maybe run some errands, share some laughs, and our dreams.
00:36:34
Like when Martha Kelly shared her career pivot. I want to become an influencer of divorced moms
00:36:40
whose kids have gone off to college who have decided they're going to start living life for themselves.
00:36:46
Or the time Baron Vaughn got distracted by the majestic scenery. Then there's a freaking deer right there on the side of the road.
00:36:52
Oh, that's great. Holy shit. Eating freaking road grass. Road grass. I wish you said glass.
00:36:59
New episodes drop every Monday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to Do You Need a Ride on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:37:09
Thank you. You're welcome. I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, host of the Wicked Words podcast.
00:37:17
Each week, I sit down with the true crime writers behind some of the most compelling true crime stories
00:37:23
and discuss their years spent investigating and why it still matters. He sees his father coming out of the woods with his hands over his face, and he knows something happened.
00:37:34
His father just grabs him and says, she's gone. She's gone. These are the cases that leave survivors, families, and the journalists who cover them changed forever.
00:37:47
Working in national television, it'll push you to your limits and you'll end up doing things you never thought you'd do.
00:37:53
You know, you look back at it and you're like, I can't believe that really happened.
00:37:57
Join me and step inside the investigation. New episodes drop every Monday on the Exactly Right Network.
00:38:04
Listen to Wicked Words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:38:14
All right, it's my turn. Yes. It's my turn to shine. Now this is the suggestion. This could be one of our ones where
00:38:21
because somebody suggested this to both of us. So I was actually thinking as I was writing this,
00:38:28
I was like, what if Georgia saw this one too? When did they suggest it? I can't remember. Maybe a week
00:38:31
ago on Twitter. Uh, it's, um, at miss new Judy suggested it to both of us. And anytime people
00:38:39
suggest them to us, I open it up and I look at the thing and then I'm like, sometimes I'll go
00:38:43
like, I should do that. And I never think about it again. And sometimes I go, I know that one
00:38:48
already or whatever. I've started bookmarking them in my, so when I'm frantically on Tuesday
00:38:54
morning going, what do I do? What should I do? Yeah. You have those ones waiting for you. Well,
00:38:58
this one, when I opened it up, I immediately was so entranced and horrified that I was like,
00:39:04
this is going to be my next one. This sounds fun. So thank you, Ms. New Judy, for suggesting it.
00:39:09
It's so good. It's John Crutchley, the vampire rapist. Love it already. Have you heard?
00:39:13
No. Okay. Clearly I didn't see that tweet. All right. So this took place, um, around Thanksgiving, uh, it was Thanksgiving in 1985
00:39:27
in Malabar, Brevard County, Florida, which is so Brevard County and Malabar, I guess.
00:39:34
I looked it up on a map so I'd know what I was talking about. It's right on the coast. It's on
00:39:38
the east coast of Florida. And it's, uh, when it's, when it's 77 miles Southeast of Orlando.
00:39:45
So it's basically middle going toward the bottom, but right on the water. All right. So this is what
00:39:50
happened. It's Thanksgiving, 1985. And a man is driving down the road and he sees a young woman,
00:39:56
totally naked. Her hands are, um, uh, handcuffed and her ankles are handcuffed and she's hopping
00:40:05
down the road. Oh my God. So he pulls over, he gets her into his car and she's totally weak.
00:40:12
She's covered in dirt. She's panicked. She points to the house nearby and says, remember that house
00:40:18
to him. Honey. Yes. He drives her to his house where his wife is. They call the cops and an
00:40:24
ambulance and she gets taken to the hospital and the doctors find out that 40 to 45% of her blood
00:40:33
is gone. No. Yes. So she has been, and she then tells them the story of what's happened to her.
00:40:40
And it goes a little something like this. One, two, one, two, three, four. Okay. So she was hitchhiking. It's, you know, it's 1985. It hadn't been totally
00:40:55
taken out of our society yet. She's hitchhiking down the road. A guy pulls over,
00:41:00
He's wearing a business suit. He's wearing a suit. He looks, you know, he looks like a professional businessman.
00:41:05
And he's just very casually is like, where do you need to go? I'll take you there.
00:41:10
She jumps into the car as they're driving. He goes, sorry, I just have to stop at my house really quick.
00:41:16
Jump out and roll. I mean, jump out then because you've now deviated from the plan.
00:41:23
Only give them one deviation from the plan, I would say. And then you're not familiar with your surroundings.
00:41:28
I mean, not that it's either way, but then you're not like... You're not on your way to the place you want to go.
00:41:32
Right. I know how to get there. Yeah, exactly right. So they pull into his driveway.
00:41:36
He invites her in. She says, no, I'll wait in the car. He says, fine. He goes into the house for a little while.
00:41:41
He comes back out. And then he goes, sorry, I just have to get something out of the back seat really quick.
00:41:45
He goes into the back seat behind the passenger seat. And then he wraps a cord around her neck and begins to strangle her.
00:41:52
He chokes her out in the car. She wakes up The next thing she knows she on the kitchen counter She tied down to the kitchen counter naked and uh she is blindfolded with tape so she can see underneath the bottom of it it not like
00:42:07
material laying flat yeah so she can see that she's on a kitchen counter naked he's standing
00:42:14
next to her naked oh dear and um uh he has set up a video camera on a tripod so he's videotaping it
00:42:23
Fuck. He proceeds to rape her on that table. Then he explains to her that he's a vampire and he she feels a prick in her arm and he begins to drain blood from her arm and drink it.
00:42:36
How? How? What at that moment is she like? Oh, fuck. Yeah. What level of so you're probably in shock when something like that happens to you.
00:42:49
But then I think things would just get real black and white. Like, you'd just be like, I need to get out of here now.
00:42:54
How do I get out of here? How do I get out of here? Yeah. So, um, uh, so basically, uh, I talked through that and then lost my place.
00:43:05
Oh, sorry. Um, no, no. Okay. So, um, so then he takes her and he puts her in the bathtub and later that day he comes
00:43:16
back. He gets her, takes her out of the bathtub, puts her on his bed, tranquilizes her, some strong
00:43:21
drug and rapes her again. Then drink drains her blood again and drinks it again, brings her back
00:43:27
to the bathtub. Um, and, uh, the next day she wakes up and he does it again. And then he tells
00:43:37
her he has to leave the house, but not to try to escape because his brother's there and he'll kill
00:43:42
her if she tries to escape. She hears the car leave and then she manages. So she's now had her
00:43:48
blood drained three times. She manages to get up and to, um, kind of stand and pull herself up to
00:43:57
the tiny bathroom window that's above the bathtub. Can you imagine how dizzy she is at that point?
00:44:01
I mean, and also just like the amount of times I say I'm tired when I have done fuck all,
00:44:07
all day long is shocking. And I think about things like this where when you have to like dig from the bottom and like
00:44:13
really power yourself through, it's like, I hope I'm going to be able to do that.
00:44:17
I got up this morning and got really dizzy and like, and I hadn't even done anything.
00:44:22
And there's no blood stolen from my person. You've got a hundred percent of your blood?
00:44:26
I have a hundred percent. 110. As far as you know. Probably. What if Elvis is drinking your blood at night?
00:44:31
Oh my God. That's kind of cute. Yeah. That's how, that's why you're so bonded. Okay.
00:44:35
So. she pulls herself up she sees that the lock on this bathroom window is broken so she opens it up
00:44:42
and she fucking pulls herself up somehow pulls herself up and shimmies out of this window and
00:44:48
falls down to the ground outside of the window this is mary vincent level badassery yes it's
00:44:53
amazing and it's yeah it's just pure uh she knows that this can't go on right like this isn't she
00:44:59
doesn't have time right what i love is that she being told there's somebody that's going to kill
00:45:05
her does it anyway because she knows it's bullshit it's fucking bullshit so um there's a cop in this
00:45:12
uh one of the uh like the shows that i watched about this guy a cop who says if you saw this
00:45:18
window you wouldn't understand how a person got got out of it wow like she made herself fit through
00:45:23
a tiny bathroom window and got out and that's when and then she crawled to the road and finally got
00:45:30
herself up and when she started hopping they said a couple of there's different um on murderpedia a
00:45:35
couple of the articles say different things but one says that a couple trucks passed her before
00:45:39
anybody picked her up and then finally that that guy picked her up um which also that how hard would
00:45:46
it be to get into a strange strange man's car also i have that that thinking of and this is probably
00:45:51
from goonies of like what if it was the guy coming home that was the vampire yes exactly right you get
00:45:57
into the car the person that got you there in the first place and it's like to me that's like the
00:46:01
worst horror movie of like no almost made it yeah yeah but she makes it so um the doctors at the
00:46:09
hospital say if she had stayed there one more night she'd definitely be dead because you there
00:46:14
was so much blood gone that they kind of are amazed she got herself out of there so uh so she
00:46:21
when she got into the car i told you that already right where she said remember that house which is
00:46:25
my favorite because it's just like she was on she was like getting shit done so they go girl is a
00:46:30
vintage murderino yeah she really is you know what i mean yes she's taking care of business yeah she
00:46:35
knows she knows the signs and signals yeah so she they go back to the house and um they have a uh
00:46:43
a search warrant to go back into the house sorry i've completely lost my place you might have to
00:46:48
fix this part steven well i'm impressed right now that you just like i i see you and i'm watching
00:46:54
you and this is all off the top of your head yes because i it's so when those ones happen where
00:46:59
it's like it's not just a standard yeah awful thing but it goes into the world of almost a cult
00:47:07
where you're like these people it's when you see the house in the video just a white house on the
00:47:12
side of the road i want to see that looks kind of nice it looks like nice family lives there
00:47:16
and inside is like nightmare town beyond anyone's like you wouldn't even know what was happening to
00:47:22
if somebody was draining and drinking your blood. Insanity. Okay, so police get a search warrant
00:47:28
of 39-year-old John Crutchley's home. His wife and child had been out of town for the Thanksgiving weekend.
00:47:36
Uh-uh. So he's a family man. Oh my God. When they get there, they find the video camera equipment
00:47:43
that she described, but the tape inside had been recorded over. Had he already come home and he knew she was gone?
00:47:49
Yes. Okay. Probably because, that so this videotape is recorded over. Right. They also find and photograph
00:47:57
stacks of credit cards in other people's names and they find a pile of jewelry hidden in the back of a closet all women's jewelry um
00:48:06
and so and they photograph that so they arrest john crutchley uh on kidnapping and rape charges
00:48:14
um so the police in brevard county realize they have an advanced predator and this is not standard
00:48:21
fair for them so they call the fbi and for them who shows up but robert wrestler so robert wrestler
00:48:27
we've talked about a couple times, but he's the famous FBI agent who worked in the behavioral science unit.
00:48:34
He worked there for years. He's the guy that developed VICAP that basically enabled cops to start
00:48:40
communicating on a national database to put in the MOs of killers so that uncaught cold
00:48:45
cases and uncaught crimes that people could enter them in and go, is there anybody else
00:48:51
that likes to drain the blood of young women? That's Robert Ressler. What a badass motherfucker. He should have
00:48:57
like, you know, BAMF. You know, it's the last letters of your name when you're like a doctor or like PhD.
00:49:04
Instead of MD. Yeah. He's BAMF. Badass motherfucker. So they, thank God, they call him in and he immediately has a profile going for this
00:49:14
guy. And he immediately tells the cops, this is an organized serial killer who has definitely
00:49:20
killed before. Because you don't have a person that's this comfortable picking somebody off the street
00:49:26
and doing this crazy shit in his home. He didn't even take her somewhere neutral.
00:49:31
He took her to his home. He's done it before. This is the result of escalation, not the beginning.
00:49:36
Exactly right. Yeah, this isn't your first swing into, I think I'm a vampire. What should I do?
00:49:41
Or I think I'm a rapist. How do I do this? Yeah, let me do what I want all the time.
00:49:46
So he and he also, I'm pretty sure Jack Crawford from Silence of the Lam is based on him.
00:49:51
He's the one, Robert Ressler is the one that wrote a book called um whoever fights monsters oh yeah i was looking at that from another murder there's so much
00:50:00
information in there yeah it's supposed to be the best book i've never read it though i'm gonna read
00:50:03
it that's gonna be my next book me too let's buy it together okay good should we listen to it i
00:50:07
wonder if it's a good audiobook um i like the idea of listening to it let's do it it's so much easier
00:50:12
it's so much easier i'm in my car so much more than i'm in my yeah reading room i promise your
00:50:17
house will be so clean as soon as you get into an audiobook that you're into yeah that's the
00:50:21
That's very true. Okay. So whoever fights monsters by Robert Ressler, let's do a read along.
00:50:25
Yeah. But he's also just the guy that like, he put it, he puts it all together in that super
00:50:31
interesting scientific way where it's the guy that's like serial killers are 90% or
00:50:38
more are white men between the ages of 28 and 30, whatever. Like that's this guy.
00:50:42
Yeah. Those are fascinating when they're so correct. Like he does this kind of business.
00:50:46
He's in this kind of thing. He has this family. He has, it's just like. And then they find the guy and it's like every almost every time it seems like.
00:50:54
I know. And I keep thinking like, no fucking way. That's crazy. And it's too simple.
00:50:57
And then it's like, exactly. Ding, ding, ding. Yeah. Robert Ressler, A plus. So, OK, excuse me.
00:51:06
So they start because once they bring him in and he tells them this, they start looking
00:51:10
at missing persons cases around Brevard County. And they find that there have been four dead, unidentified women's bodies that have been
00:51:17
discovered in that county in the previous year. Wait, that didn't immediately ring some bells?
00:51:24
I mean, I don't know how big that place is, but yeah, that's fucking insane. Yeah.
00:51:27
In the area, they had in the one year, four dead women that they didn't know who they were.
00:51:32
I can't breathe. Then, Ressler notices that John Crutchley has moved a lot and changed jobs a lot.
00:51:41
So, they start looking at places he used to live. um they look into his last known addresses and they see there's a number of cold cases
00:51:49
involving missing and un of the unidentified bodies of young women um so they start
00:51:57
like basically gathering up all this information um so just a quick background um
00:52:04
he uh the the saddest sentence that i've ever read on um on wikipedia is is about this um about
00:52:14
john crutchley it's the beginning of his wikipedia entry and it's born to a well-to-do family in
00:52:19
pittsburgh john crutchley was a friendless child a friendless child oh how can that be
00:52:29
And also when you look at his picture, if you've ever seen the movie Rent, there's an actor named Anthony Rapp who has like strawberry blonde hair.
00:52:37
He could play John Crutchley. He would have to get creep out makeup done and probably lose a lot of like, not that he's in any, he's perfectly fit person, but he doesn't have the same exact face, but he's basically matches that.
00:52:53
So it's, he'll do it for a role. But anyway, it's, it's just, he looks, he has like panic eyes.
00:52:58
He has dark eyes and blonde hair, which is scary looking. Canic eyes is such a good descriptor.
00:53:02
Yeah. And also the really thick, like 80s, 80s aviator glasses, not sunglasses, but just glasses,
00:53:10
glasses. The pervert glasses. Pervert glasses, but not transition lenses. Interestingly enough.
00:53:15
All right. Excuse me. So anyway, when he, so he went to college, he got his degree in shit.
00:53:27
Where'd it go? I don't have that here. He got his degree in, um, in physics, I think, or something like that.
00:53:34
Then he went to graduate school and he got his degree in electronic engineering management or
00:53:40
something like that. His first job out of graduate school was at Delco Electronics in Kokomo, Indiana.
00:53:46
And he left there relatively soon after because he, there was an investigation made by the company um into missing materials that they thought he had stolen Excuse me So just right away a lot of question marks about this guy
00:54:06
So then he moves to Fairfax County, Virginia in the mid-70s. That's where his mother lived.
00:54:11
And he gets remarried. He got married in college, and that marriage ended relatively quickly.
00:54:17
So mid-70s, he gets remarried, and he works for several high-tech firms in the D.C. area,
00:54:23
including trw ica and logic on process systems i don't know what any of those fucking things i mean
00:54:30
how could we ever um so about this time when he's working at these companies several teenage girls
00:54:37
in the area disappear now in fairfax virginia a 25 year old woman named deborah fitz john went
00:54:45
missing and her remains were later found in a remote area by a hunter she was last seen in
00:54:50
Crutchley's mobile home. Oh dear. Which I don't understand if he's like an engineer at these
00:54:55
high-end companies. Why is he living in a mobile home park? Maybe it's a fucking the Lexus of
00:54:59
mobile homes. Oh, true. True, true. Um, from 1979 through 1983, Crutchley worked for a Washington
00:55:07
based defense contractor and had access to Norfolk Naval air stations. And during that time,
00:55:14
a 23-year-old Navy messenger named Pamela Ann Kimbrew disappeared from the base on March 25,
00:55:21
1982. She was later found dead in a car submerged at the end of a seaplane ramp.
00:55:26
Her killer tied her arms behind her with clothesline and then tried to strangle her.
00:55:31
There was a green ski mask and fingerprints that didn't belong to her or her boyfriend in the car.
00:55:36
And then a 21-year-old Navy clerk named Carol Ann Molnar disappeared February 6, 1983,
00:55:44
Her decomposed body was found three months later, partially buried under rocks of a seawall at the Norfolk base.
00:55:50
And she had been strangled. So there's all these cold cases around the areas where he lives.
00:55:56
That's so many. And I've never heard of him. Yeah, I know. Well, maybe because of this.
00:56:00
So when the cops go back in for a second, they get a second search warrant and they go in to seize all that stuff that they had seen on the first time around.
00:56:11
That stack of credit cards is gone. and that pile of women's jewelry is gone. They can't find it.
00:56:17
But they should have taken it. And then the tapes are, they can't find any tapes that have stuff on it.
00:56:23
Why? Right. So, because I think the first time around, they're just like, who knows?
00:56:29
Like a search warrant isn't the same as like a search and seizures, maybe? Maybe.
00:56:33
I don't know. There's got to be reasons and answers. But they were, I think it's that thing
00:56:37
of they're taking pictures of it. They know you have it. Right. But then it's gone anyway.
00:56:42
And it's that kind of like, well, you didn't catch me with it, so there's nothing you can do.
00:56:46
Okay, so anyway, they were unable to find any hard evidence that tied him to any of those cold cases that I just talked about.
00:56:55
But he was brought up on charges of kidnapping, rape, grievous bodily harm for the exsanguination, and drug possession.
00:57:05
And he got those last two charges, a plea bargain down, in exchange for agreeing to plead guilty to kidnapping and rape.
00:57:13
So they basically cut out the fact that he drained and drank her blood and the drugs he gave her so that he would just plead guilty
00:57:23
and they could move it along. And in court, the defense tried to present him as only being guilty of having kinky sexual tastes
00:57:31
and an interest in bondage. Yeah. Fuck. They referred to the 19-year-old victim as a Manson girl.
00:57:39
who was in fact soliciting him for kinky sex when they met. How did I know that would happen?
00:57:45
That she was into kinky sex and she wanted it this way? Like how could they know that?
00:57:50
No. How did I know that that was going to be, that's how they were going to turn it around?
00:57:54
Yeah. Because that's kind of standard fare. Where it's almost like the most offensive thing that could happen
00:57:59
is the way they blow it up. So that now you're thinking about that instead. Like the idea that they call her a Banson girl.
00:58:06
Yeah. Where it's like, it's 1980 fucking five. Like she's not a Manson girl. This isn't the, this summer of love is long, long over.
00:58:13
And whether or not she's a sex worker, I'm pretty sure that if she agreed to get into someone's car, having her blood drained out of her body and being held and repeatedly raped was in no way.
00:58:25
And like you and I could be called like serial killer girls. Cause we're into like, you know, so maybe she's fascinated by, by Manson and reads about him, but that doesn't mean she's like supports him.
00:58:37
Like I read about World War II, but it doesn't mean I'm into Hitler. Yeah, but I don't even think, I think they were just using that as a way to label her.
00:58:44
You know what I mean? Just to say she's basically throwaway. It's just a different way to say she's trash, which is the bullshit part.
00:58:53
Here's a bigger bullshit part. Crutchley's wife testified. No, I was wondering where she was.
00:58:59
Well, here she is, and here's what she had to say. She says this crime is nothing more than S&M that got out of hand.
00:59:05
and they ended up bringing in stacks of 3x5 cards of different women's names and the
00:59:12
S&M and bondage sex play that they liked to engage in because he was apparently did it all the time
00:59:20
and many of the people who had been sexual partners with him testified that they
00:59:26
got into it because they were into S&M and then he would not respond to the safe word and he ended up
00:59:32
raping them or attacking them in a way but they felt like they couldn't do anything about it because it started out consensual right
00:59:38
and then turned to rape and there was nothing they could do so they you know that's kind of
00:59:43
an amazing thing is like that to be in a world like that where it is actually all about this
00:59:48
kind of a cons the consensual agreement and the like it's an act of faith almost yeah and then
00:59:54
the only thing they can do is that when it turns out he a serial killer vampire they can be like that happened to me too I didn go to the cops or I did go to the cops and they were like wait so So you answered this personal ad or whatever
01:00:06
Yeah. It's like if you're a drug dealer and you get robbed, you're not going to go to the
01:00:09
cops and be like, I was dealing drugs and I got robbed. Yeah, that's right. Not that that's the same.
01:00:14
Anyways. Yeah. Anyway. So the wife comes out, she says that, and then she, in reference to this 19 year old
01:00:22
girl being tied down to a kitchen counter, raped and having her blood drained. The wife says that this had been a, quote, gentle rape devoid of any overt brutality.
01:00:34
She wasn't fucking there. And that's what she is testifying in court. What is a gentle rape?
01:00:39
It's insanity is what it is. Also, after the trial, this same wife told reporters that she couldn't quite understand
01:00:46
what the fuss was since her husband was just, quote, a kinky sort of guy. Sad. dad honey so here's the good part okay when they sentenced him based on robert russler's testimony
01:01:00
at the sentencing hearing where he says this is absolutely an organized serial killer we just
01:01:06
haven't found the bodies we're like coming in on the back end of his run yeah and you know and
01:01:13
basically in all the profiling that he gave the judge in this case chose to exceed the state
01:01:19
guidelines on rape and kidnap charges and sentenced John Crutchley to 25 years in life
01:01:24
to life in prison with 50 years subsequent parole. Fuck yeah, dude, dude. And then Robert Ressler calls this after the sentencing's over and he goes to jail.
01:01:37
Robert Ressler's like, yeah, he's going to get out early on good behavior. That's how this goes.
01:01:41
And that's exactly what happened. He served 11 years. 11? What does 25 to life mean?
01:01:49
Well, if you're a good behavior. Right. If you don't kill anyone in prison. So he serves 11 years.
01:01:56
He gets out in August of 1996 on good behavior. But the city officials of Malabar and both Malabar and Fairfax, Virginia, are like, you're absolutely not coming here.
01:02:08
You can't live here. You can't come here. So he has to go. they put him in a halfway house in Orlando where he has to then live, serve out his 50 years parole
01:02:19
and begin to pay the restitution that he owes. And while the day after he's released from prison,
01:02:26
I hope this is what I think it is. He tests positive for marijuana and is arrested.
01:02:30
It's not what I thought it was going to be. No, but that's great. We're close. Um,
01:02:34
and because it's his third strike, the first being kidnapping and the second being, um, rape
01:02:40
pot is his third strike he goes back to jail for life shut your fucking mouth so what i think
01:02:47
happened is like the cops knew especially because of robert wrestler they're just like this guy's
01:02:52
gonna slip through the cracks because rape isn't that big of a deal to our legal system and so they
01:02:57
just stayed on him they tested him the pot that was in his system was from a party they threw him
01:03:03
before he left jail. So he had smoked pot in jail. Oh, so, but I wonder if like, are you on parole yet in jail though?
01:03:12
No, but you're, you're, if it's still in your system when you're on parole on day one,
01:03:16
you test, you test positive for marijuana. It doesn't matter when it got into your system.
01:03:21
Wow. You're not allowed to have it in your system. You shouldn't have had it at your party in jail.
01:03:25
So he goes back, he goes back third strike. He's in jail for life. Um, and then in March of 2002,
01:03:32
He's found dead in his cell with a plastic bag over his head and he died of asphyxiation.
01:03:37
Wow. But we don't know if it's suicide or not. But of note, and I think this is also this is a fascinating part where I wish I was better at research.
01:03:48
I wish I took more time and I wish there was like I didn't really find that many that many articles about this in particular.
01:03:55
But I would love to know when he was arrested. he was found to be in possession of a great deal of highly classified information about
01:04:04
naval weaponry and communications. Unnamed federal agencies other than the FBI considered opening an espionage case against
01:04:12
him. And his employer, Harris Corporation, was involved not only with NASA research and launch
01:04:19
facilities at Cape Canaveral, but also with other naval contractors and subcontractors.
01:04:23
So he was stealing information and that's why he got fired initially and sharing it
01:04:27
with fucking the Russians. They don't know. Probably. You just rewrote that ending.
01:04:32
Well, yeah. I mean, what it is, is we know that he is a thief aside from all these other ways
01:04:38
that he's a criminal. He has no problem stealing shit from these. And he is, he was a very, very intelligent
01:04:45
and very successful like computer engineer. Engineers are not stupid people. No.
01:04:51
Over across the board. No. So that's why they were, you know, Russell was saying there's many bodies that are his responsibility that we just haven't found because he's so organized and he's been doing this so long.
01:05:04
And his back then, when you moved around a lot, there was no way to trace anybody or anything.
01:05:12
Also, in 1989, Crutchley's former lawyer stated that he that Crutchley was prepared to confess to at least three murders and lead police to the burial sites.
01:05:24
but that negotiations between Crutchley and the prosecutors fell through. So he just didn't do it.
01:05:30
What happened? It was like he wanted too much or I don't know. That's another thing that's fascinating.
01:05:35
Yeah. Yeah. So they think, I think that the thing on Murderpedia has victims like zero to 30 plus
01:05:47
in terms of murder victims. They just they could associate him in all these places that he lived with girls just disappearing but they don know for sure Dude that and even if it like okay a few of them wish someone were murdered by someone else that still an insane amount it not going to
01:06:06
be half it's going to be at least you know yeah shit dude so let's say his name again john crutchley
01:06:13
the vampire rapist okay yeah i had never heard of that one isn't that nuts yeah yeah that's a
01:06:21
I thought he was going to get stabbed to death in prison. That's what I thought was going to happen.
01:06:26
Yeah, I mean, I don't know. Maybe he immediately, like when he was in high school,
01:06:32
used to fix people's stereos for money. Oh, no, yeah. So maybe he just was one of those people that used all of his abilities for other people.
01:06:44
Well, I can't imagine prison inmates throw at just everyone a goodbye party with pot.
01:06:49
You know what I mean? Like that's not for the guy. Not everyone gets a cake and weed for their goodbye.
01:06:56
Yes. He claimed that they blew the pot in his face. It was not his fault. Yeah. My cat says that too.
01:07:04
Remember knowing people who did that to their pets? Yeah. It's the creepiest thing of all time.
01:07:08
Horrible. What's wrong with you? No, he likes it. And we're back. Karen, any updates on this awful case?
01:07:18
Yes. Yes. So John Crutchley is suspected of being responsible for up to 30 murders, but there's never been enough of a concrete connection to those to charge him in those additional cases.
01:07:31
Robert Ressler, the great FBI profiler, died in 2013. And the role of Bill Tench on Mindhunter, the Netflix series, played by Holt McElhaney, is based on Robert Ressler.
01:07:44
So it's kind of cool. Like he has a very legitimate, you know, kind of like a way to acknowledge and stop a certain type of super criminal, like a hyper criminal.
01:07:58
Yeah. That nobody really had their minds wrapped around when he first started working on it.
01:08:03
And to ground break in a way that's like, yeah, these aren't people that are going to be rehabilitated.
01:08:08
Right. Or reasoned with in any way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What a legacy. It's a whole different.
01:08:13
What a legacy. It's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And that's it. So let's get into Georgia's story about Janine Jones.
01:08:24
Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was.
01:08:29
Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Dani Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets.
01:08:40
And just then, we felt the plane turn in the air, so much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.
01:08:49
Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships, and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves.
01:09:00
My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know, but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything.
01:09:06
and me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.
01:09:12
And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.
01:09:17
Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:09:36
Hosted by me, Hoda Kotb. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats.
01:09:45
Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Joy 101, and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS.
01:09:55
10-10 shots fired in City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall?
01:10:00
Somebody tell me that. A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.
01:10:09
I scream, get down, get down. Those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery that may or may not have been political, that may have been about sex.
01:10:20
Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:10:26
Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeart Podcast presents Soccer Moms. So I'm Leanne.
01:10:35
Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hip since high school.
01:10:38
Absolutely. A redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips.
01:10:44
This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey.
01:10:49
With all the snacks and drinks. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a BOGO.
01:10:55
Well, then you got it. Listen to Soccer Moms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:11:04
Today I have an angel of death. So I've been looking up the specific angel of death for a couple weeks now, like on and off if I want to do him.
01:11:11
And it's just kind of, eh. So yesterday I was at like a little Memorial Day gathering and someone brought this one up that I'd never heard of.
01:11:22
And it's in the news like today. And so I looked it up and I'm like, this is perfect.
01:11:27
Okay. So this is Janine Jones. Do you know her? I don't know. She's the angel of death.
01:11:34
So Janine, which I don't know if everyone knows this, is a nurse or doctor or some kind of medical professional who kills their patients.
01:11:45
Yeah. Okay. So Janine Jones was born July 13th, 1950. She grew up in Northwest San Antonio.
01:11:54
She was adopted by a nightclub owner, and he owned the Kit Kat Swim Club. Which like, you know, is the best place to be.
01:12:02
Swim club? I don't know. Yeah. A nighttime swimming club? I don't know if there's anything to even do swimming.
01:12:10
Please. I want to go to this club. There's a pool in the middle. Who knows? Yes.
01:12:14
Let's open it. Yes. Yeah. Night swimming. Lights off. Oh my God. Neon shit. You know, it's so creepy.
01:12:21
What? We just fucking ate a Kit Kat. That's really true. Joke. Such a delicious Kit Kat.
01:12:27
What are the chances? From the Seattle show, if you gave it to us there. Oh, and they were Canadian.
01:12:31
But they knew you love Canadian Kit Kat. So they have Canadian. Which are legit better.
01:12:35
So much better. Okay. So he, her father managed the club and her adopted mother, Gladys, spun records at the
01:12:43
turntable. So they sound like a fucking fun time, awesome couple. Was this in the 70s?
01:12:48
This was in probably 50s, 60s, 70s. So somewhere around that doesn't say. Her mom's the DJ and her dad's the club owner.
01:12:55
Yeah. And so like, oh, I think it's as a kid. So it was probably in the 60s. Like they sound fucking tits.
01:12:59
Yeah. Why aren't you cool? They adopt four kids. They sound awesome. One of the brothers died of cancer and another was killed by the explosion of a bomb he had made when they were young.
01:13:12
Oh, no. Yeah. So Janine worked as a beautician and then she attended nursing school in the late 70s.
01:13:19
She was super smart. She scored more than 200 points above the passing grade on her licensing exam, on her nursing exam.
01:13:27
And so after school, she began working as a licensed vocational nurse at Bexar County
01:13:34
Hospital in San Antonio, which a licensed nurse is like not an RN, right? It's I think it's a step below.
01:13:41
Yeah. But I could be wrong. No, you're right. Because they kept talking about that.
01:13:45
So I think you're correct. Yeah. RN is like the thing. My mom was an RN. So she was real judgy about medical assistance and stuff like that.
01:13:52
Or she would get very offended when people only had medical assistance and not nurse.
01:13:55
Right. Or if they assumed she wasn't an RN. Right. So very few people ever did that. Yeah. She had a real RN feel about it.
01:14:03
Well, I think this chick did too, because a lot of people thought she was, but she was put in the
01:14:07
eight bed pediatric intensive care unit. And the RNs basically said there were babysitters,
01:14:13
which is like, and she was just like, fuck that. She knew a lot about anatomy and all these smart
01:14:19
things. So Bexar County would send its critically ill children there when they couldn't afford a
01:14:26
private hospital. So they basically didn't have insurance and they were like, you're off to this
01:14:30
place. Oh no. Yeah. Which is just like, let's talk about healthcare, man. Let's talk about it for
01:14:36
three hours. Let's get into it right now. Let's solve it. Yeah. So Janine worked a three to 11
01:14:44
PM shift. And when baby started dying on her shift regularly, the other nurses she worked with
01:14:50
started calling it the death shift. Oh shit. And the other nurses were like, what's up?
01:14:56
supervisors there's something going on but they didn't want to believe the supervisors didn't want
01:15:00
to believe that the seemingly super dedicated nurse was hurting her patients so they didn't
01:15:05
even look into it but then during it's just like i just don't want it to be this way yeah
01:15:11
she's really intense she can't be yeah so then eventually during a 15-month period in 1981 and
01:15:19
82, uh, 40. Okay, wait, no, not yet. So during a 15 month period in 81 and 82, 42 children died
01:15:29
while undergoing treatment in the pediatric unit. 34 of those patients died during the three to 11
01:15:35
PM shift. Oh my God. And the, the word patient, like these are critically ill infants and like,
01:15:41
yeah, children. Um, and she had directly cared for 20 of those children. So the patients experienced
01:15:49
uncontrollable bleeding seizures and breathing problems that were correlated to her. So in early
01:15:55
December of 81, an infant named Josh Sawyer, Joshua Sawyer, goes to the pediatric ICU after a fire
01:16:03
destroyed his family's home. So he's an infant. He was suffering from smoke inhalation and he's
01:16:09
suffering seizures and cardiac arrest. When he gets there, he's treated with the Dilantin.
01:16:14
Dilantin, that's my medicine. That's a seizure medication, right? Oh my God. I was legitimately excited to hear mine.
01:16:22
I was, that sounded sarcastic, but I was like, oh my God, no, that's, I'm excited for you.
01:16:26
That's mine. Thank you. Me too. Do you also take phenobarbital? Phenobarbital? No.
01:16:30
Okay. Isn't that like, okay. That's old kind of. Yeah. Mine's a little bit old too.
01:16:34
They want me to not take it anymore, but it's the only thing that controls my seizures.
01:16:37
Really? Hmm. I wonder if it changes like, like when you change ages and you get used, you know, probably
01:16:45
the brain is such a mystery. But it can't be fun to be like, let's try this one now.
01:16:50
The same way with antidepressants, it's like, no, please don't put me on a new one.
01:16:54
I know it's going to be months of fucking trial and error. Yeah. And my trial and error was I would have half seizures and spin in a circle like a dog that was about to take a nap.
01:17:05
Karen, that's so... I did it on stage a couple of times. And you had to lay down, right?
01:17:09
Yeah. Because I would just be turning and like looking. It was like I was needed to look over my shoulder.
01:17:15
Oh my God, I mean, they want to cry for you. for like 15 seconds oh my god it's fucking insane baby i've been through the mill you really have
01:17:24
that's that makes me so sad for you i love that i am in no matter what the scenario we could be
01:17:30
talking about children being murdered i can still make it about me and that's what this podcast is
01:17:35
isn't it my favorite making it about me moment my favorite meter oh no sorry um no that's good
01:17:45
Anyways, back to this infant. So he's on thylantin and phenobarbital. And by his fourth day at the ICU the seizures had stopped and he was breathing on his own But his mother Connie Weeks at the urging of a friend so she been bedside this whole fucking time freaking out after her entire house burned down and she having a fucking seizure No panic attack baby Friend is like
01:18:10
get out of here. She goes home to take a shower, change her clothes, like be normal, and also goes
01:18:15
to see a movie, which is like, they want her to be distracted. Yes, and relax. Right, which seems
01:18:21
hard. I mean, so in the theater, watching the movie, the usher finds her and is like,
01:18:29
they need you at the hospital immediately. Because when she left, he was like probably stable.
01:18:34
Right. Jesus, man. So Joshua's heart had begun racing a few hours after, um, after Janine took
01:18:43
over his care that day. Doctors were unable to help him and he died the following day after
01:18:48
suffering two more cardiac arrests. She was also on duty at the time. Wait, she was on duty again.
01:18:57
It's like the next day at the time of the death as well. And blood tests done between his cardiac episodes that were overlooked showed more than three
01:19:06
times the therapeutic level of Dilantin in his system. Three times. So the hospital started private searches finally to determine if Jean, which I think she was
01:19:16
called Jean also, was killing patients. So between May and December of 81, the last of the hospital's internal inquiries found 10 children in the ICU had died after, quote, sudden and unexplained complications.
01:19:30
In all 10 cases, Janine Jones was present at the child's bedside during what the report gently terms the final events.
01:19:39
So instead of OK, but the hospital was in the middle of a public relations campaign campaign designed to make over its image.
01:19:46
And so it didn't tell the police of the findings. Oh. Uh-huh. Which were that, and here are the findings.
01:19:54
Children were 25.5 times more likely to suffer a medical emergency and 10.7 times more likely to die during her shift.
01:20:03
Fuck. Yeah. Tell somebody. Dude. Alert the fucking media. Actually, I feel like the media is a great place to turn when no one will fucking listen to you.
01:20:13
For sure. You know? especially independently owned a rolling stone if you will I don't know if that's
01:20:20
that's the end of Firestarter when they're like running running running from the government and the black ops and the
01:20:26
you know men in black and all that and they finally like the dad is killed anyone? I haven't seen it so
01:20:32
I read it when I was like 13 because I was obsessed it gave me nightmares when I read it and I was like
01:20:38
probably the same age as you but at the very end like they put the story of all of it into an envelope and drop it off at Rolling Stone. That's the way to do it. It made me
01:20:47
so excited. Yeah. Okay. Anyway, that's when I was watching the keepers. I was like, you know,
01:20:51
they start talking to a journalist and it's like, no one will listen to you. Bring all your evidence
01:20:55
to like some bad-ass investigative journalist. How about that fucking journalist, by the way?
01:20:59
I love that man so much from the keepers. He is a genius. They are so important. Yeah. They're
01:21:04
amazing. And there's a resurgence of them now that we all realize that journalism is very important.
01:21:10
Oops, we need them. Yes, badly. So instead of letting everyone know in March of 82, they're all like, all right, you know
01:21:20
what we're going to do instead of telling anyone about Janine, we're going to take all
01:21:23
of those nurses that are on the ICU and upgrade them to nursing staff. So they all get the fuck out of there.
01:21:30
All right. They take all of them. They say they're upgrading to nursing staffs to only be registered nurses in that section
01:21:37
and they kick all of them out. So all the nurses who were there get kicked the fuck out.
01:21:42
Yeah. They offered them jobs and other parts of it, but this is the way to just not fire her.
01:21:48
And all of those nurses, including Janine, were given good recommendations. Because they didn't have proof that it was her.
01:21:55
Well, they went through this whole thing. I think they did, but they were just like, didn't want to have a PR thing.
01:22:00
This is very much how the Catholic Church would have acted. Yeah. Right? Just move them around and move them around.
01:22:06
Put them somewhere that are not around children anymore. Yeah, it's somebody else's problem now.
01:22:11
Okay. In her recommendation letter, she was described as loyal, dependable, and trustworthy.
01:22:18
Yeah. So five months later, she takes a job with a pediatrician, Dr. Kathleen Holland in Kerrville.
01:22:25
Kerrville, probably. Kerrville. How's it spelled? K-E-R-R-V-I-L-L-E. Kerrville. Yeah.
01:22:32
This is the part in live shows where they would start screaming at us, all of us, and
01:22:36
we wouldn't understand a single fucking word. So in a period of 31 days as she's working there, seven patients in eight separate medical emergencies had to be taken to the hospital.
01:22:50
In a month? Uh-huh. Yeah. Because here's the thing. It's such an obsession for her, I'm assuming.
01:22:59
She knows this is a way smaller playing field. It'll be so much more obvious. She does it anyway.
01:23:05
She can't not do it. Yeah. It's so crazy. Well, you know, is it the thing of like, what is the thing?
01:23:10
Does she want to look like a hero? Is she, does she have, yeah, she wants to save the day.
01:23:15
It seems like a lot, which is a lot of the reason they do that. Most people do that.
01:23:19
I believe that's what it is. It's like they, it's a, right. It's that they were naming some things.
01:23:24
It's that it's putting that quote, putting them out of their misery when it's like older
01:23:28
people, which isn't true because this other dude I was looking up just killed like people
01:23:32
who came in for like a broken arm or some shit. Yeah. I don't believe the putting out of their misery.
01:23:36
because I did that British doctor. I can't remember, but he did the same thing. And it was people who were not in misery.
01:23:41
There was nothing wrong with them. He just liked killing people. He liked the control.
01:23:46
And actually, you brought up misery and Firestarter. That's weird. It's said that this one, Janine, is one of the,
01:23:53
what Stephen King wrote misery when he wrote Annie Bates No Kathy Bates is the actress Annie I can remember the character that one of my favorite movies it so good we need to watch it so horrifying it
01:24:06
she's the scariest fucking thing in the world she she won an emmy oscar whatever
01:24:11
she should have won both man she should have swept she should have gotten what is it called
01:24:18
the uh glad awards no what's not i didn't mean you know what i mean listen the tonys yeah but
01:24:24
What's it called in 30 Rock when you win all of them? EGOT. Yeah, the EGOT. In 30 Rock.
01:24:30
Elvis is like, bitch, get your shit together. Okay. Okay, takes a job, 31 days, seven patients.
01:24:39
The doctor in the office then discovered puncture marks in a bottle of, here we go,
01:24:45
psych and cool psych and all chlorine psych and all chlorine it's second in the drug storage where only she and jones had access and contents of the apparently
01:24:57
full bottle bottle were supposed to be full later found to be diluted so basically she's a teenager
01:25:02
taking the vodka bottle and fucking out of the freezer is this you there's some story of like
01:25:08
that i some roommate was like some girl had a roommate took her vodka bottle it fell out of
01:25:14
the fridge and broke no no the vodka was frozen which it doesn't do which means it was all water
01:25:22
at that point there it is something ridiculous yeah that's the best yeah so basically she's
01:25:29
a monster so this drug which i refuse to say again is a powerful paralytic that causes temporary
01:25:36
paralysis of all skeletal muscles as well as those that control breathing so a patient can't breathe
01:25:43
while under the influence. In small children, cardiac arrest is the ultimate result due to lack of
01:25:49
respiration. One of those children at this location was Chelsea McClelland. She died on September 17,
01:25:57
1982. She was a 15-month old. She went into respiratory failure after Jones injected
01:26:03
her, which was supposed to be routine immunizations. So you go in to get cholera or whatever the fuck
01:26:09
they immune you for, and she fucking dies. The powerful, it's usually used as general anesthesia for surgical patients.
01:26:19
So she's charged with Chelsea's murder, but the prosecutors decided not to file charges against her in the death of any of the children she was suspected of killing because they thought that the 99 year sentence that she got, she was found guilty.
01:26:32
99 year sentence. Plus she also got a 60 year sentence for giving a four week old Rolando Santos
01:26:38
a large dose of the blood thinner heparin. But he survived. But she got another 60 years in 1984.
01:26:45
And they were like, well, she'll never get out. So we don't really need to prosecute her for any more people.
01:26:50
She'll be in jail for the rest of her life. Right? Yeah. Nope. No. All right. So today's what? The 30th
01:26:58
we decided? Today is the 30th. Okay. That's the truth. So on, oh yeah, I mean, I guess, you know what I mean.
01:27:05
We decide now. We decide. Oh, we didn't tell you? On May 25th of 2018, so a year from basically a couple days ago, she's 66 years old.
01:27:16
She's supposed to be eligible. She's been eligible for parole since 89, but is repeatedly denied because she's a monster.
01:27:23
But she was set to be released from prison after serving one third of her sentence.
01:27:29
So in a year. Wow. Yeah. And it's because we're here we go again with good behavior.
01:27:36
Texas had Texas created a law called good time. The good time law, which is which is not a good time.
01:27:43
Probably serve the victims, which was created to combat prison overcrowding. Allows inmates convicted of a violent of violent crimes between 77 and 87 to be released if they have a record of good behavior.
01:27:58
Like let the dude who got caught with some pot. no yeah that's just it you know it's that's just it you had meth in your pocket that you were using
01:28:06
it wasn't enough to sell who let him out yeah who cares right compared to the people who clearly have
01:28:15
a mental illness compulsion to to uh what do you exact bodily harm yeah on their fellow man who have
01:28:25
no empathetic tendencies whatsoever who if you're i'm sorry but if you're over the age of 21 and you
01:28:31
commit murder you know you've thought this through in some point at some you know you're not going
01:28:37
the rehab thing is so hard to think when it's people who have murdered systematically murdered
01:28:42
people in cold blood and systematically murdered infants think it was like you were in charge of
01:28:49
that your nurse it's part of your i don't know if nurses take an oath or i bet they do though it's
01:28:54
part of it. It's part of going, I'm a medical worker. I'm going to act like I'm going to stand
01:28:59
in family member watching your child while your child is at the most vulnerable point it could
01:29:04
possibly be. It's almost, yeah, it should be worse when you agree or you are supposed to be
01:29:10
taking care of someone or making them live. Yeah. Yeah. Because the thing is we know
01:29:16
she's been in jail, say for 30 years, whatever it is. She gets out of jail. That thing that she has,
01:29:23
has in probably no way been addressed of I need to be. It's just her life is dedicated to making just like serial killers.
01:29:33
They kill. That's what they do. They have to do it. And then it's that you have to be a charming manipulator to get away with this thing for so long
01:29:42
that I don't care how much therapy you've had in prison. You're a charming manipulator.
01:29:47
You're not going to fucking exercise that out of someone. Right. I don't care how good of a therapist you are.
01:29:52
Yeah. Yeah. And I don care And I don care Maybe you better Maybe you not like that anymore You fucking still have to pay for the crime you committed Yeah I don care if you a fucking saint Well and also it the thing of trying to get things because there so much backlog in the system
01:30:08
They're just trying to get things moved through. But it's like, you know, and hopefully this when like.
01:30:15
They come upon this for like the parole board or whatever, that's taken into consideration.
01:30:20
This isn't a person that just like accidentally hit somebody with her car or intentionally hit somebody.
01:30:24
with her car in a crime of passion. This person who systematically murdered babies.
01:30:30
It's also that thing of like, yeah, so the parole board said no, because they looked
01:30:36
at the evidence and realized time and time again that she shouldn't be out. What is the
01:30:41
point of our judicial system who gave her 99 years for this horrible crime if you're
01:30:47
just going to override it? You know, like it makes people not as scared to commit crimes
01:30:53
because it's... Listen. Hey, listen. Listen. Look and listen. Listen. Look. There we go.
01:31:04
Da-da-da-da-da. Okay. So, good behavior. Because of this, Brexar County prosecutors were like,
01:31:13
hell fucking no. A couple years ago, I think, they found out about this. They launched a secret investigation
01:31:19
into her time as a nurse. and when they realize that she's going to be released they believe that she may
01:31:26
they estimate that she may have killed as many as 40 to 60 oh fuck suspicious deaths under her watch she killed your grammar school class of children
01:31:38
i had 63 kids in my class okay so okay i thought you meant in your not in your own class
01:31:46
but like in multiple classes no no no in like grammar school yeah i'm just thinking like our
01:31:52
sixth grade class had 63 kids yeah it would be as if she went through and systematically secretly
01:31:56
poisoned every single one of them jesus christ as babies as babies i'm trying to put out there
01:32:03
i'm gonna put a metaphor out there that only i can relate to no that's a good one because i
01:32:07
wouldn't have known what to do like what to say like they killed the amount of people who were at
01:32:11
the pool yesterday like no but that doesn't make any sense right yeah okay so on so on may 25th
01:32:18
a couple fucking days ago in so 2017 brexar county district's attorney's office announced
01:32:25
that she had been charged in the 81 death of 11 month old joshua sawyer the kid who got
01:32:30
killed because his house burned down so they went back to that poor kid and charged uh she
01:32:39
they charged her. So I think they, she's just going straight to the other county. Um,
01:32:45
they're just basically transferring her to another prison and she's not getting out.
01:32:48
So she would have gotten out and she won't. So, uh, district attorney, Sam D. Millsap Jr.
01:32:55
Um, Oh, Ronnie's nephew. Who's that? Well, it's a deep cut for all the, uh, middle-aged people. Ronnie Millsap is a country singer.
01:33:04
Nope. Oh, you've told me about him. No, I haven't. Who's the guy that you told me about who was in...
01:33:09
Mickey Gilley? Yeah. Who was in the show we like? Fargo. Mac Davis. Okay. That's Mac Davis.
01:33:16
But actually, same school. Okay. Same, like, class of people. Someone, some middle-aged is losing his mind right now that you said that.
01:33:24
Perhaps Ronnie Millsap himself. Oh, my God. And maybe Ronnie Millsap was blind. That's something we could look up.
01:33:31
But why? I mean, why don't we... We're not worried about facts right now. This isn't a fucking country music podcast.
01:33:39
Yeah. Listen, sorry. Start your own podcast about country music if you really want to know.
01:33:43
You're so goddamn interested in his life. So he, this dude, Millsap Jr., he's six months into an investigation of the county, Bexar
01:33:53
County Hospital, which is now called, nope. Okay. Which is now called University Hospital of San Antonio.
01:34:03
And everyone's like, I went there. So they changed their fucking name. Yeah, smart move.
01:34:09
So he is looking into why no one stopped all of these. So like holding them accountable.
01:34:15
Thank God. Yes. Oh, that's a bad one. He says he's focusing his criminal investigation not only on Janine, but also on the hospital for its inactions.
01:34:25
So Josh Sawyer's death, the sweet kid. One of the reasons they're able to prosecute it now and why they have such strong evidence is because Joshua's mother kept her son's medical records.
01:34:37
for more than three decades. And she said, it's all I had left of Joshua. She said, everything else was destroyed in the fire.
01:34:45
Oh, no, I'm crying. You're crying. I don't know why that gets me so bad. It's so sad.
01:34:51
It's so goddamn sad. She has, she walks away from that hospital with nothing. And so she keeps these records
01:34:58
and they probably didn't have them anymore. You know how those records things go.
01:35:01
Exactly right. And also it's just that fucking hospital put their own image above human life,
01:35:12
which is the opposite reason to have a hospital. And it's somehow so much worse that it was...
01:35:18
Children. Children. Children. Yeah. It's almost worse. I mean, no one is better than the next,
01:35:24
but it's so heartless. It's, well, they just have no... They couldn't even fight.
01:35:30
It's not like somebody, they could go, why are you putting that needle in my arm or anything?
01:35:33
It's just like... It's so vicious. They can't even say, I don't feel well. It's this thing of, yeah, it could have been stopped at any time had anyone taken the time to do their job, which is to protect the patients, not the hospital.
01:35:47
It's like the people who could have investigated what was going on there, who worked there, they didn't own the hospital.
01:35:54
It's not like they needed to worry about the image of the hospital. Right. And also, I mean, it's a fucking hospital.
01:35:59
It's not. Like you just started a PR company. Yeah. People are going to go to the hospital.
01:36:04
They have to. Yeah. You fell off a ladder. You have a blade of, you know, a knife in your arm, whatever it is.
01:36:12
It's not like you're like, oh, don't go to that hospital. Well, I did that. They had some issues.
01:36:15
I went to Hollywood Presbyterian because I needed help immediately in that place.
01:36:20
I don't want to talk shit out of school and on a podcast, but... That's what you're doing.
01:36:25
That's what I'm doing. All I'm going to say is don't go there. Bad news? Very. Is that the one that's on Western? Yeah. Oh, no, Vermont, Vermont. On Vermont. Yeah. Down by
01:36:35
the Wendy's, right? Yeah. Across from the Wendy's. Yeah. Wow. That everything is. Shut up, Steven.
01:36:41
That's what, that's how I measure all things. Wendy. The closest Wendy's. Yes. What's the
01:36:46
closest? But I knew immediately. Yes. Yes. Do you do that too? Well, I've been there. I mean,
01:36:52
there's nothing worse when you're in, like when you're in a bad spot and it's so weird because
01:36:58
having a nurse mom growing up when we would have to go was like my mom worked for Kaiser. So we'd
01:37:02
just always go to a Kaiser. Like the, the, we never didn't have insurance. We never didn't have
01:37:08
coverage, all of that stuff. And my mom used to harp on me when I didn't have insurance after they
01:37:14
took me and my sister off there. They were like, your adults get your own. And I didn't, of course.
01:37:19
And then she'd be like, you have to get insurance. And I'd just be like, what for? Why? Well, then
01:37:24
when I had my seizures, I didn't have insurance. And I went to Harbor UCLA in Torrance and it was
01:37:31
horrifying when you, you don't want to go to a county hospital without your insurance.
01:37:37
Well, look and listen, they're in their poor neighborhoods that Hollywood, you know, Western
01:37:43
and fucking fountain is not the center of Beverly Hills. And all the bad shit that happens in that
01:37:51
neighborhood people just get dumped at this hospital it's not that they're bad people it's
01:37:55
not that the people that work there aren't talented yeah it's that they're the ones that are like
01:37:59
almost like it's frontline style where they're just seeing tons of stuff all the time yeah it's rough
01:38:04
listen burbank urgent care shout out hey um so that's the story of janine jones she's the angel
01:38:12
of death wow thank god they fucking swooped right in right in time and kept her off the streets
01:38:17
Because you know, like, yeah, they'd be like, you can't be near children, but that shit falls through the cracks.
01:38:23
Also, then she just is going to do some, she's going to like start, this is my theory, but she would then start driving for meals on wheels.
01:38:30
And suddenly people, you know what I mean? She would, she doesn't need a hospital to poison people to death.
01:38:35
Oh my God. She would just go do it some other way. Cause it's a compulsion that hasn't been addressed, I'm sure, or fixed in her in any way.
01:38:42
I wonder where it came from because it feels like there's like, maybe it's her brother's dying.
01:38:47
Maybe it's when she was little. I mean, there has to be. And she was married and had two children.
01:38:54
Yeah. I forgot to mention that. So she had babies at one point. Yeah. That's amazing.
01:38:59
Yeah. Something happened in her life. Because aside from a mental illness, obviously, when it's...
01:39:06
I've read a lot more about... Less about angels of death because they just... I find that they're so straightforward.
01:39:13
It's like, oh. Yeah. That's why the other one, I was just like, I don't know if I can do that.
01:39:16
It's just kind of, it's just plain sad, but it's interesting because it's very similar to the
01:39:22
Munchausen's by proxy where, and that's the real one where oftentimes it's mothers poisoning their
01:39:28
children and they're, they get so much out of doctors and staff members and everybody
01:39:34
worrying about them, pitting them. It be, they become the focus of the attention.
01:39:40
Well, the thing too, is that she was saying that her first, the first patient she ever had to ICU
01:39:45
was an infant who died on her watch and it broke her heart. But I wonder either she killed that
01:39:51
infant or the attention she got when that happened, having been this child's nurse at the time was so
01:39:58
fulfilling that she couldn't stop because maybe, you know, she had just been a perfectionist before
01:40:03
that or maybe she had just you know it that thing of how some people love having the um the approval of people who above them they you know so like the doctors and RNs were like commending her for how she dealt with it
01:40:18
And comforting her. And comforting her, yeah. Yeah. It's so fascinating. Have you seen that horrible video?
01:40:24
They put a video camera hidden in. No, don't want to. Well, say the word slowly so I can stop you.
01:40:31
I'm not going to say it. The kid survives. Is it a babysitter that abuses the child?
01:40:36
No, it's a father. I can still see in my head and it's so horrible. Me too and I can't watch those.
01:40:41
Noah's father, they put a video camera in there because they knew something was going on.
01:40:46
In the hospital? In the hospital room where the little girl was sick. He puts his body on top of hers and tries to like stop her from breathing and a nurse rushes in and catches him and he gets arrested.
01:40:57
Because he had munchausens? Yeah. He was making her sick. He's trying to smother her?
01:41:02
Yeah. Holy shit. I'm sorry, are you crying? No, no. No. Why not? I can't I do have no
01:41:09
I used it all up on that the idea of that the only thing you have left of your child
01:41:13
is medical records it's just like I know but but how triumphant for her well thank fucking God
01:41:21
yeah because then it's yeah oh my God yeah half those podcasts we listen to that are like
01:41:26
investigative reporting is them trying to get whatever basic medical records or crime records
01:41:32
what are they called yeah that they can't that no one will give them that's All of the keepers is them going, I'm sorry, how do you not have these records anymore?
01:41:40
How do they not exist anymore? There's a lot of floods in basements of police stations.
01:41:46
So much flooding. There's a flooding is a what's it called? It's a common problem.
01:41:51
Yeah. Or it's an epidemic. Yes. Anyways. Well, that was great. That's been two hours of my favorite murder.
01:41:58
Wow. Really? I don't know. Okay, we're back. Are there any updates on this case?
01:42:06
Yes, actually. In 2020, as part of a plea deal, Janine Jones pled guilty to murdering Joshua Sawyer, quote, with a deadly weapon and received a life sentence.
01:42:16
This required her to serve 20 years before becoming eligible for parole. So with credit for time, she'd already served awaiting trial.
01:42:24
This would keep her behind bars at minimum until December of 2037, when she would be 87 years old.
01:42:32
So she might get out then. I mean, who the fuck knows? And in her victim impact statement, Connie Weeks, Joshua Sawyer's mother, told Jones, quote, I'm glad today that you will never see daylight as a free woman and your life will end in captivity for killing my son.
01:42:47
I leave you with this. I hope for you to live a long and miserable life behind bars.
01:42:53
Goodbye. End quote, which is wow. Yeah. So powerful. Yeah. Okay. Well, then it's time to wrap up this episode.
01:43:04
Oh, yeah. So because that was horrible. And actually, I did not think this through of what
01:43:11
my thing was from this week. Yeah. You go first. No. You said you had one. I do. And I didn't think
01:43:17
it through. Totally didn't. Okay. I met my friend's brand new baby yesterday. I swear to God,
01:43:27
I didn't do that on purpose. And for a minute, I thought I had done a different murder. I was
01:43:30
doing a different murder oh my god i know kurt's baby yeah yeah kurt and lauren i didn't go because
01:43:36
i was sick oh i would have harassed you didn't come i know no i mean you don't even want to be
01:43:41
a brown baby and have this like disgusting cough you should have coughed on the babies so i went to
01:43:46
my friend corinne lauren's house yesterday uh they have the uh wedlock podcast and audible it's great
01:43:54
everyone listen and uh this baby it's like two months old and it's so weird to see your friend's
01:44:00
face in a baby and i kind of and the baby was laughing with me and this baby is so chill and
01:44:07
sweet and has these like dark gray blue eyes i mean she's darling her name's olive and i was for
01:44:13
a moment like i want one of these so i turned to vince and i said a dog or a baby pick one so i think we gonna get a dog that exactly the way you should make decisions like that oh yeah nice ultimatums yeah you can get a dog with blue eyes i can get a baby dog
01:44:31
yeah that's right oh that's awesome yeah what's yours i can't wait to see that baby oh cutie um
01:44:38
i mean we did mention it i guess i will say this we did mention it very briefly on the mini-sode
01:44:44
that you and I went to a therapy session together. And I have to say, it just made me, first of all,
01:44:51
it made me so happy because we both know how to be in therapy. So we got to, we cut to the chase really fast.
01:44:56
Yes. I was just like, this is what we need. We have to like, whatever. But it made me feel so fucking mature.
01:45:02
And like, like we're not, it's not like there's a problem we have. We're trying to prevent a problem because we are in a very, we're in rare air.
01:45:11
no we can't go to anybody that and go hey have you ever gone through this before because no one
01:45:17
that i know has in this specific way and we basically we of course we have steven but we
01:45:23
just have each other well we've argued in front of steven before sweetly with his face pretending
01:45:28
to write tech in the so where we just it's just this it was it just felt like such a
01:45:35
like we were just getting at the problem without being we're just like let's solve this and
01:45:41
And we both are self-aware enough to know that we have fucking issues that make us hard.
01:45:46
Both of us hard. I know makes me a hard person to deal with. Same here. And I'm aware of that and totally okay with that.
01:45:53
Yeah. And I want nothing more than to be a better person. Yeah. And improve myself.
01:45:57
So instead of it feeling like, oh, we had to go to therapy. It felt like now we're going to do this really smart thing.
01:46:03
So smart. Hand in hand to help, to make sure that we don't wreck. Because my thing is just like, there's been so many things where I've just been like, fuck this.
01:46:10
Yeah. And walked away because it was too, I couldn't communicate with the person.
01:46:14
It was too hard. It was too infuriating. And I've done it. I've done it. And I haven't walked away.
01:46:21
And I have serious issues from that. And I don't want to go through that again. I'm older and wiser.
01:46:26
And the thing that I really love about both of us is that I could say and you could say,
01:46:32
we should go to therapy. And it wasn't an insult. And it wasn't cutting you down or cutting me down.
01:46:37
And it's the same thing with couples. it's couples relationship therapy exactly which is like let's do this before it gets fucking
01:46:43
horrible and we have to backtrack for years because you it's just such a fascinating thing
01:46:51
first of all i'm deeply in love with our therapist oh my god he's amazing it was like a soap opera
01:46:56
star came to be our therapist yeah like he's beautiful and then he would just go like we'd
01:47:01
start talking and i could hear us telling the story that we told it to each other the way
01:47:05
like here's how this story goes and he go i'm gonna stop you for a second and then instead of
01:47:10
talking about the plot line yeah we would have to talk about the feelings that the actions brought
01:47:14
up which is what i hate and what i always get called on in therapy the actions don't matter
01:47:19
exactly right it's what you were feeling when you were doing them and it's what it brings out in you
01:47:24
he's making you share yours but what so you are understanding your feelings but what he's really
01:47:28
doing is making you explain them to me yes and me explaining them to you which totally helps so
01:47:33
there was like genuine revelations where I was like, Oh shit. Like we would have never talked
01:47:38
about this while we were having a fight about this other thing where it's like, I just appreciate it
01:47:43
if you would do this thing or whatever. And instead what we're just doing, we're learning
01:47:47
our backstory so that we can go, Oh, this is that thing she does. And so next time we get in a fight,
01:47:52
if I do this thing, this is why she's responding to me this way. And you know what I love? And I
01:47:56
hate when they do this is, well, you start telling them you're feeling, tell her like,
01:48:01
you're supposed to turn to me and tell me and I'm like, I don't want to. He didn't make us do that. No, he didn't, which I appreciate. I'm sure he will eventually,
01:48:08
but I think he knows right now it's too hard to do that. Well, and also cause we kind of were, I guess the part I loved is you are such a good partner
01:48:15
in that way where like when we were talking about this stuff at no point was there any shutdown?
01:48:22
Was there any, it was just like, we started to be like, well, this is the, this is what,
01:48:26
you know, I'm worried about, or this is what I, like, this is the bad pattern we're in.
01:48:30
and we both brought it together And both of us were like oh yeah I can understand that Because we both been in therapy for so long There no like both And I been in couples therapy Like I understand how it supposed to work Right Which is great And there no reason for you
01:48:45
be like, that's not true because that's, and he said at the end, which we should tell people this,
01:48:49
which this fucking changed my thought process so much. I'm going to say it wrong. You say it.
01:48:55
He said, we can stop thinking about these things in terms of true, right or wrong and start
01:49:01
thinking of them in terms of true for Georgia, true for Karen. So what you think is right is just your truth.
01:49:07
And it doesn't mean you're right. Or wrong. Or wrong. We can just practice moving.
01:49:12
It's what's true for you. It sounds so like, it's not like we were having these huge problems.
01:49:16
It's like we would get, we would, everything would be great. And then we'd try to discuss one area.
01:49:21
Yeah. And so we were like, let's fix the area before the area becomes, spreads to the rest of everything
01:49:27
else we're doing. It's like getting a bikini wax, preemptive bikini wax. Before it gets down to your knees.
01:49:32
Before you have to go to the pool the next day. And you're like, why didn't I get a bikini wax?
01:49:36
So you try to do it yourself and your legs are red. Yeah. Ingrown hairs all over the place.
01:49:42
No, you've got to get some Russian lady to do it for you. Oh, yeah. At Burke Williams.
01:49:46
Yeah. Guys. Guys. That was an overshare for sure. No way. There's no such thing.
01:49:52
All right. Well, thanks for listening. The overshare was the bikini wax or the therapy?
01:49:58
No, just. I don't know. No, nothing. Oh, because I think the bikini wax was an overshare.
01:50:02
Oh, okay. But not the... I thought it was a good metaphor. I think so. I support you.
01:50:06
Thank you. Okay, we're back. All right. So the original, as we spoke about earlier, the original title of this episode was Put It In A Door.
01:50:20
So if we're naming it today, what should we call it? We would maybe call it Secondhand Tips, which is what we started getting for this podcast, which I appreciate.
01:50:30
And then it could also be called my favorite making it about me moment. Yeah, that's what we do.
01:50:38
That's what we do here at My Favorite Murder. It's what we do. I think it's what everybody does.
01:50:42
What's so relatable about us. Totally. Speaking of us, let's let us say goodbye in 2017.
01:50:49
Thanks for listening to Rewind. Thank you guys for listening. You're all fucking sweet baby angels.
01:50:57
um thanks for your support all of it stay sexy and don't get murdered elvis you want a cookie
01:51:06
okay bye bye okay i think i had something here hey it's us the jonas brothers and guess what we
01:51:15
have some big news what's the news huge news we created our own podcast called hey jonas how do
01:51:21
we actually come up with the name hey jonas guys i honestly don't remember we were talking about a
01:51:26
bit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas. And then I wrote down on my
01:51:30
little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast. But thanks for
01:51:35
remembering that guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you
01:51:40
get your podcasts. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the
01:51:45
Burden of Guilt season two podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two
01:51:52
families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpwright became the victim of a random crime. The
01:51:58
perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything. I was a monster.
01:52:06
Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:52:15
10-10 shots fired in City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall?
01:52:20
Somebody tell me that. Shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events
01:52:25
that really ever happened in New York City politics. I screamed, get down, get down.
01:52:31
Those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten. And a mystery. That may or may not have been political.
01:52:38
That may have been about sex. Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
01:52:45
or wherever you get your podcasts.