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Hello! And welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. Every Wednesday, we recap our old episodes with all new commentary, updates, and insights.
00:03:04
And you're welcome to listen. Today, we're recapping episode 72, which we named Stephen It Out.
00:03:10
This episode came out on June 8th, 2017, which is also Georgia's birthday. My birthday!
00:03:14
I was turning 37. Let's listen to the intro of episode 72. Welcome to My Favorite Murder.
00:03:29
That's Karen Kale-Gariff. That's Georgia Hartstark. And here we are. Looking at Stephen Ray Morris as if to say,
00:03:37
Hey. How, what's up? What's up? With you. With you. And that's what the podcast is all about.
00:03:45
Two people trying to talk at the same time. The same thing. Words. Thing. I can't.
00:03:53
I can't. I can't either. Either. Shit. The finger does help. Either. We're bad at this podcast.
00:04:02
I'm bad at improv. I'm bad at doing what other people want. We were bad at this podcast is because we couldn't say the same things at the exact same time.
00:04:10
Yeah, that's what makes you bad at podcasting. In every article, they're like, they're okay, but they can't say the same word of the same.
00:04:16
So just... Time. Oh, shit. Time. See? Another. If you listen to episodes, what is this?
00:04:22
70? What is this, Steven? Two? 72. 72. I know. Steven. How do you know? How do you know that?
00:04:30
Because I'm in the email. I'm the info email. I don't check that. I know. I get overwhelmed.
00:04:37
It's funny how you and I both just get overwhelmed at different things. And so we do the thing that we're not overwhelmed by.
00:04:43
And the other person just like doesn't fucking pay attention to it. That's right.
00:04:46
Like you are, you're the description person and the naming of the podcast person and who gets back when people are like, hey, do you want this podcast to be posted?
00:04:53
And I'm like, no, I can't. Can't do it. I don't want to be in this. And then you're the merch person.
00:05:00
You're the magazine person. What magazine? You get us all the magazine subscriptions that we want.
00:05:06
What? Better Homes and Gardens, Sunset, Popular Mechanics. If that were my job for this podcast, I would be sad.
00:05:13
You would be sad to get magazines? Here, I got you a copy from four months ago of Psychology Today.
00:05:19
It's right here. Thank you. From four months ago, I kind of have been sleeping on the job.
00:05:22
That's so nice of you. Well, I guess I'll read it now. Would you? Okay, let's...
00:05:28
Out loud. Steven, can you edit this out? Okay, and we're back. And welcome. Karen, how was Psychology Today?
00:05:35
To my very... Oh, I thought you meant we're back starting over. Oh, hell no. We never start over.
00:05:41
God, that's a good magazine. Just filled with advice. It is actually a really fucking good magazine.
00:05:46
It's good. You're like, don't be sarcastic about psychology today, even for one moment.
00:05:52
Don't talk to me that way. How dare you talk to my magazine that way I got my mom a subscription to that one year I being like listen can we get your fucking shit together How about you read this subtlety Did she do it Yeah she loved it I
00:06:05
don't think she understood. I don't think she is self aware enough to understand the messaging that
00:06:10
it was pointed. Sure. Although she did text me, we got in a fight like a week ago. And I was pissed
00:06:16
off at her. And I tweeted something like the hardest job in the world is raising your mother.
00:06:20
thinking that knowing that she doesn't read twitter right she's not on twitter my dad wrote
00:06:28
back you're telling me and i was like you know marty marty um but then when we were making up
00:06:34
like a couple days later she wrote and i know how hard it is to raise your mother and i was like oh
00:06:40
do you think marty threw it in her face no i think she saw it you think she checks now yeah
00:06:46
Wow. Yeah. Shit. Yeah. But I can't imagine she listens to this podcast. Uh, well, if she does.
00:06:53
Hey, Janet. Hey, Janet. What's up, girl? Hi, best friend. Remember when we partied in Chicago together?
00:06:59
We had a good time. Where were we? Chicago. No. Where were we? We were. Chicago.
00:07:05
2016. It was Christmas. Uh, oh my God. I'm sure we've talked about this on this podcast, but one of my favorite things that's ever
00:07:14
happened to me is um the night before our show we got in in chicago in chicago 2016
00:07:22
december christmas time um got it i'm there my sister adrian and audrey uh the four of us went
00:07:30
out to try to eat something but it was kind of late at night so nothing around and it was
00:07:35
fucking freezing what was like 50 degrees it was and windy so everyone shut up from
00:07:40
everywhere else. It was also windy. Oh, 50. That's nothing. I'm from Alaska. We don't care.
00:07:45
No, there was wind everywhere. I'm on the North pole. That's nothing. It's a narwhal.
00:07:52
When the other guy's like, what a dick. The other narwhal, can we get a cartoon of a narwhal
00:07:56
saying that? And another guy going like, what a dick. Shut up, you dick. Bye, Mr. Narwhal.
00:08:01
I'm completely ripping that off from Elf. Okay. But. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah.
00:08:05
state your sources we go into a walgreens and we all buy hats that's how cold it is we're
00:08:11
california girls we had no idea our layers weren't going to work so we start walking just trying to
00:08:15
find anywhere to eat um and we find we walk in we walk and it's freezing and we're like basically
00:08:21
fighting the elements and finally we're on a corner and i turned to this girl that's standing
00:08:26
next to us on the corner and i was like hey do you know any like even a diner anywhere at a
00:08:31
restaurant that's open around here. And this girl, she was like in her probably mid twenties,
00:08:37
maybe even a little older. Um, no, maybe a little older. No, I just need for this to come out of
00:08:44
her mouth. She goes, um, I don't know, but you know what you can do? Um, you could Google it,
00:08:52
but she wasn't being sarcastic. Like that's something my sister would say to me with so
00:08:57
dripping with sarcasm where I'd be like, Oh, you really got me. But this girl thought she was giving
00:09:01
us great advice. She was like, Oh, Oh, but you know what you could do? You could Google it. I was
00:09:06
like, Oh my God, you're so right. Have you ever, have you ever said that to someone in a sarcastic
00:09:11
way where it's like, someone will be like, you're like, here's my address to get to my house. I'm
00:09:15
like, what's the cross street. And then you're like, I don't know. Let me Google it. And then
00:09:19
you Google it and tell them. No, have you ever done that? That specific exchange? It's mean.
00:09:24
no never mind you're saying reverse it and be sarcastic i get you yes i've never done it i'm
00:09:34
positive i've well i mean like that's just saying have you been a bitch in a certain way absolutely
00:09:38
there's a way to be a bitch have you done it uh-huh yeah that was you sang a hot of me just
00:09:46
now yeah no even that was bitchy anywhere on that bitch color wheel i've been there
00:09:50
times 20. I mean, it's a beautiful rainbow. I like it. There's subtleties, there's shades.
00:09:55
Yeah. I mean, oftentimes it's necessary. Like the way I answered the girl who sincerely told
00:10:00
me to Google a restaurant. And I was like, thank you. In a way where she's like, you're welcome.
00:10:05
And walked away thinking she'd made a new friend where I was like, I just tried to stab you with
00:10:09
my words, but okay. Her brain was frozen. It was really cold. Her brain was frozen. She was probably
00:10:16
shit face. Shit face. And just really good at covering it up. Do you have any actual business?
00:10:22
No. I met a couple murderinos at the Ryan Adams show over the weekend that were really nice. Cool.
00:10:28
That weren't like, that were really cool. Cool. Shook hands. That's business people. Yeah, they're like nice.
00:10:34
Thank you. Oh, did you meet the executive of GM? Yeah, we shook hands. A nice strong firm handshake.
00:10:41
Had a glass of really expensive whiskey. Nice. I don't know what I would say the name of it
00:10:45
if I knew it, an expensive glass of whiskey was called, I don't know, McClellan's 108?
00:10:50
McMoneys? McMoneys? Do you have any business? Yes. Okay. There was a woman in Australia, a murderina,
00:10:59
who went on to a game show no Americans ever heard of, which makes this difficult because this doesn't stick.
00:11:06
If somebody had texted us and said a murderina was on Jeopardy, right, we'd all have shat our pants and freaked out.
00:11:12
But everyone in Australia is like shouting their pants and freaking out. And they're like, a murderino is on the chase.
00:11:18
That's my accent. What's it called? The chase? The chase. Okay. It's called the chase.
00:11:22
And I have it right here. What's her name again? Natalie Krug. Okay. This is Natalie Krug.
00:11:27
She's a contestant on the chase. You Natalie Krug. Listen, murderinos. If you want to get above someone, beat this.
00:11:35
I don't know. I'm kidding. I don't care. Your personal motto is. Stay sexy and don't get mad at me.
00:11:42
So where does the motto come from? It's from a podcast. I'm obsessed with true crime podcasts.
00:11:47
And this is from my favorite, Murder. Murder. That's the name of the podcast. My parents, two very funny ladies in California.
00:11:54
Right. Get together and talk about their favorite murder Really Bitch They were true crime nuts Yeah And now they just chat about it and they do their research It very What No we don Oh it was from a different show
00:12:06
Funny, slightly macabre. Yes. This is correct. Yay, Stephanie! I mean, that is so fucking surreal.
00:12:16
I can't believe it. Don't get murdered. Murdered? How'd she say it? Don't get murdered.
00:12:22
No. Murdered? No. And then everyone else Stay sexy Don't get mad It's so cool It's amazing
00:12:30
It's so wild Thank you so much Natalie Fuck I called her Stephanie Did you? Yeah
00:12:36
I'll edit it out Thanks Natalie It's so crazy We love our fans Stephanie Stephanie you mean the world to me
00:12:45
Stephanie no one's never meant more of me Can you give me a clean Natalie And I can just punch it in
00:12:50
Natalie Natalie Do Pee Wee Herman from aging Mr. Herman. Mr. Herman. Oh, do the thing.
00:12:59
Do the thing. Oh, yeah. Whenever there's someone talks about corn, I always say, can you say maize?
00:13:09
And then Karen fucking blows it up by saying, this is Paco and his wife, Ones. That one?
00:13:16
Yeah. There's no basement in the Alamo. Either one, but the first one is better because it's like, it's really obscure.
00:13:25
You know what I mean? Like the first time I said it, we are, yes, we're quoting Pee-wee's Big Adventure.
00:13:30
And the first time I did it, the delight in Georgia's face that I also knew a line from
00:13:35
Pee-wee's Big Adventure to the, like to know where it went in the scene was you were thrilled.
00:13:42
But everyone, like everyone knows the line I was saying. Everyone knows a thing in the Alamo.
00:13:46
But then you took this obscure line and said it perfectly. to something I've been saying forever, which is, can you, is it, can you say maze? And then I was
00:13:57
just like, like I was like, I was being pushed in a, like a shopping cart all of a sudden,
00:14:02
you know, I'm just like, this is so cool. Well, and also, uh, I think I explained this to you,
00:14:08
but my friend Jennifer Gehring and I, who was my lifelong friend, I haven't seen her forever
00:14:13
cause she lives in DC. I'm sure she doesn't listen to this, but I Jen, I love you if she does.
00:14:17
but we grew up together our families were friends our parents would hang out together and like get
00:14:22
together and then Jennifer and I were just the two youngest so we would pair off and go have fun but
00:14:27
she's the greatest like we saw uh Raiders of the Lost Ark in the theater together like all of my
00:14:33
all of those major moments of childhood I had with Jennifer Gehring and of course we saw Pee-wee's
00:14:39
Big Adventure in the theater together and so we just spoke in movie quotes constantly so we would
00:14:43
just when we were bored or there was nothing else happening. Kids, this is before social media.
00:14:48
What you did was just say movie quotes back and forth to each other like lunatics.
00:14:53
That's how my brother and I have communicated. Like we hated each other. And then The Simpsons have started happening and married with children.
00:15:02
And then like since then, he and I have never had a conversation that isn't a quote from
00:15:05
one of those two. Like we just. Monorail. Yeah. Yeah. We just can't do that. We have like a secret handshake.
00:15:11
Yeah. That's from family therapy, though. But we have this. Oh, that's real? I thought you meant the Simpsons quotes were the secret handshake.
00:15:18
The secret handshake is from when we had to go to family therapy. Wow. Yeah. Wow.
00:15:25
It actually, yeah. Okay. It was good. It was great because we made it up to get a secret handshake and then we hated the therapist
00:15:31
together and everything was fine. That's good. Yeah. And then you have like comedy bonded you.
00:15:36
Yeah. That's why it's so good. Sweet. So good. What were we talking about? We're talking about Natalie.
00:15:42
Murder. Murder. Stay sexy, don't get murdered. There it is. Hey, technically it's my birthday today.
00:15:51
Georgia. Could not tell Thursday. But when people hear it. Happy birthday to you.
00:16:02
You guys are good podcasters. Happy birthday to you. No, thank you. Thank you. Oh, Elvis is leaving.
00:16:09
Elvis, what? That was my best version. Thank you guys. So rude. Happy birthday. What's your, um, what's your birthday resolution for the coming year for you as you're in this
00:16:19
new age? Live it. Love it. Yes. Learn it. Right. Learn to levitate. You're on fire.
00:16:31
There it is. What if I did all of those things? That would be such a waste for a podcast.
00:16:38
I'll be like, you guys, I swear to God, she's levitating right now. You're right.
00:16:42
I promise. That's all our business, right? And then some. And then some, actually.
00:16:46
And it was none of your business. This was the none of your business corner. So should we talk about murder?
00:16:54
Are there any shows we didn't watch? Oh, I'll tell you what. Tell me what. I have done quite a bit of binge watching as my hair was getting greasy.
00:17:06
and I had to go to the store with my split P. Anderson's hat on. Hell yeah, girl.
00:17:11
Thanks. I love that little thanks. That's my little fake thanks. Do you want more pillows?
00:17:19
I have all of them. I have four pillows and you have one. Yeah, thanks. Thanks. Wait, what was I telling you?
00:17:25
Oh, okay. So I was digging deep on Netflix because, I mean, God bless all of you for still making
00:17:33
suggestions and tweeting suggestions at me. But there's people who are tweeting things like, have you seen Luther girl?
00:17:40
The girl that tweeted at me, have you seen Luther girl? Yes. Like, yes, I've seen fucking Luther.
00:17:48
I haven't. You've never seen Luther. Uh, oh shit. I've seen a lot of stuff. I really do care for Idris Elba at all Yes of course I care for him deeply Okay Then you need to get into that It an amazing amazing thing Well so I was trying to go a little more obscure and there there is a show called murder book that I have Oh I like that one It so good Yeah It
00:18:09
the one guy, right? That's on it. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's not a murder book is what they call a thing
00:18:18
about the case. Exactly right. Yes. So it's almost kind of a cold case thing, but they just call it
00:18:23
something different. Yeah. Because it ends up being about cold cases because they go back to
00:18:27
the murder book. I love the opening sequence of that. Isn't it creepy? Yes. You know why I think
00:18:31
it's creepy? Because I think it's models. It's all those files. If you're listening, please watch
00:18:38
the show. It's very well done and it tells real good stories of true crimes, cold cases, whatever,
00:18:43
but it's just produced really well. And they have a lot of the people who really worked the case.
00:18:48
It reminds me of the detective one that we were talking about on Netflix, but real detective,
00:18:53
Didn't, weren't you watching one about the occult that I tried to watch for three minutes
00:18:57
and couldn't get into it? You know why? Okay. That's occult crimes. Yeah. And I think it's because it's produced, I think a French company produces it because they
00:19:05
have a lot of French talking heads that then are dubbed over. So you see their mouths moving, but then there's just a voice coming from nowhere that's talking
00:19:13
over them. I think it's more than I think occult crimes are stupid. I really do.
00:19:19
It's the same thing with like ghost hunters. It's like, well, the occult isn't a thing.
00:19:24
It's crazy people making it up. So I don't care. Okay. You know what I mean? Yes.
00:19:30
Although I love the occult. I really do. What part of it do you love? The mystery.
00:19:36
The outfits. Grown up goths. Yes. Convincing crazy people to do insane things at their bidding.
00:19:42
What is the bad part of what you just said? It's so good. People do it. That's the thing.
00:19:48
I don't know. Okay. I don't know. It's just not for you. I guess it's almost like it's the same thing, too, where it's like there's some I really like that idea if you take the occult part out.
00:19:58
So like Jonestown, I think is cool because it's this bigger than life person who is able to convince all these people to do things for him or to do, you know, the same thing with Manson's interesting, too, because he was able to convince all these people to do things.
00:20:10
And it's like, but then you're like, but I love Satan, too. And Satan's real. And it's like, no, he's fucking not.
00:20:16
And then I get struck by a bolt of lightning. How funny would that be? Smoke just starts coming up from behind the couch.
00:20:22
It was so weird. Georgia in her apartment just got struck by lightning. Ranting and ranting about how Satan isn't real until he was forced to show up.
00:20:30
Mimi got on her hind legs. Her eyes rolled back into her head and she started. She was like, I will take you to the dark place now.
00:20:37
Mimi, hear me roar. Mimi, no. Mimi, we're so cute. It's so funny because you'd picture her with like a girly voice.
00:20:44
She actually has a very deep satanic voice. And then Elvis is like, I fucking told you.
00:20:48
This whole time I was trying to warn you guys that she sucked. It sounded like you wanted
00:20:52
Elvis to have a New York accent. I fucking told you. I fucking told you guys. This has gotten way off track.
00:21:00
Skippers, come back. This was fun. No, because we were talking about a lot of people
00:21:06
actually recommended occult crimes. That's how I found out about it is because people were recommending. I'm sorry
00:21:12
that I shit on the girl that recommended Luther. I adore you for tweeting at me. I didn't mean to do that.
00:21:16
You should have tweeted at me because I don't know it. That's right. I just ended up putting IKEA furniture together last night and watching Kimmy Schmidt, which
00:21:25
is pretty nice. So good. I love that show. I do too. I really love it. It's so goddamn packed full of jokes.
00:21:32
So good. Brilliantly written. And also it's akin to Bob's Burgers in that when you watch it, if you were in a bad low
00:21:39
place, it's up, up, up. It makes you feel happy. It's so hilarious. Titus Andronicus should be the president of the United States of America.
00:21:49
I would be so happy. It would be so much better. Okay. So, all right. Girlfriends who are playing this podcast for their boyfriends on a road trip and who are like,
00:21:58
no, you're going to love this podcast. Come back to us. That was good. I agree. Okay.
00:22:04
Boyfriends who are like to their girlfriends. I was also sexist what I just said.
00:22:09
This is the best part. Get ready for the boring part. Yeah. Here comes the boring part.
00:22:13
The point of all of it. I was going first today. It's you, I think. Is it me? Yeah.
00:22:19
Karen's right. I was right about number 72. I am fucking on this shit. Well, the problem is Mimi's entire body weight is on my story.
00:22:28
Okay. Sorry, go ahead. She looks so shocked. She's like, how dare you pull your story out from under my body?
00:22:38
And we're back. Did your mom like that Psychology Today subscription? Did she use it?
00:22:44
My passive aggressive psychology today subscription. Just a little. I think you liked it.
00:22:50
Yeah, without understanding it. Have you seen that meme that's like they show this video of you being this beautiful girl and it's like you're the kind of girl they write books about and then it flashes to the DSM.
00:23:03
There's a bunch of those on TikTok that are like, I'm so excited for my sister today.
00:23:08
And then it's like some horrible thing. It's like slut celebration or whatever it is.
00:23:13
Yeah, some troll day. Troll garbage rat day. I highly recommend Psychology Today still, though.
00:23:20
It was such a good magazine to crack the surface of those little things that you want to understand about yourself.
00:23:27
It's really great for that. Yeah, if you're too scared to go to therapy, pick up one of those magazines.
00:23:34
Wait, do you remember your birthday from 2017 when you turned 37? Yeah, not specifically, but I'm guessing because we had just moved into the pod loft and I'm the kind of person who takes advantage of amenities that it was in the pool.
00:23:46
Like I had a pool party. Remember? You did. I was there. Yeah, there was a hot dog.
00:23:50
You had a cake with your picture on it. That's right. There was hot dogs. It was boiling fucking hot.
00:23:56
We were in that side air conditioned room. I got. to hang out with your sister a little bit. That's the first time I ever met her.
00:24:03
That's right. And my nephew was just like a baby. He was a baby on her hip. Oh, my God.
00:24:08
It was a fun party. It was really good. That apartment pool was literally jam-packed with
00:24:12
people. Yes, it always was busy. It was hilarious how many people were in that pool.
00:24:17
Yeah. But it was very fun. Yeah. I had a lot of good birthdays there. And it was fun. Like, yeah, going to a public
00:24:23
pool is always fun, people watching. And the apartment, I mean, I still have a key to that
00:24:28
apartment building if we need to go to the pool. Go in there and go through someone's mail,
00:24:33
pick up there. Yeah. Yeah. I don't remember the girl on the Australian game show, The Chase.
00:24:40
I totally remember her. You do? Yeah. It was like a Jeopardy type situation. Oh, okay. Like,
00:24:47
that's what it looked like. I totally remember that. And it was like, yeah, like, presented as
00:24:51
like Jeopardy would be. And she said that. We're just so lucky. Our Australian listeners are the
00:24:57
best. And we're so lucky to have such a strong contingent down there and strong and mighty and
00:25:04
vocal and the kind of people who would do that. Yeah, it's so funny. Like, Australia has always
00:25:09
been very supportive. What? Okay. Yes. Yeah. That's great. I love it. We got to go back. Yeah.
00:25:15
Okay. All right. Let's get into Georgia's story about the interstate killer. Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn
00:25:27
I'm the host of Ear Say The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club This week on the podcast, I'm sitting down with Ray Porter
00:25:35
The narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook Project Hail Mary Massive sci-fi adventure about
00:25:43
Survival and science And what happens when you wake up alone Very far from earth
00:25:48
I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections.
00:25:56
And it's like, OK, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it.
00:25:59
I was like, no, at this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it.
00:26:08
But there's places in this book that deeply emotionally affected me. And I left it on the mic.
00:26:15
That's great. Because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end.
00:26:19
It's like, yeah, dude, me too. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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For full offer details, visit BoostMobile.com. This is the highway killer or the interstate killer.
00:28:06
Now, this is a serial killer that I had never heard of. I've seen this photo before, but I've never heard of him.
00:28:12
And I found a pretty straightforward story. He killed this person, then he killed this person, then he killed this person.
00:28:17
You know, like the story. And it was so devoid of any details that when I started looking into it,
00:28:23
then suddenly it's like, no, this was way fucking bigger than you thought it was.
00:28:29
So we're kind of learning this together. Can I guess which state it took place in?
00:28:33
Yes. Texas? You were wrong. Fuck. Because it took place in a lot of states. Oh. Yes.
00:28:39
I see. You tell me. All right. I will. You don't want to make it up? I'm not going to guess the whole story.
00:28:44
I thought I should, but now I don't want to. Just guess. Guess it. Guess, guess, guess.
00:28:49
Okay. From 1982 until 1984, a serial killer was killing young men. He was dubbed the interstate killer because his victims were mostly random hitchhikers.
00:29:01
20 to 23 were dead before he was caught. the victims were stabbed and they were bodies were found in parts of indiana illinois kentucky
00:29:12
and wisconsin what yeah so the first really thought i knew this and i do not know it at all
00:29:18
you know his face okay this is crazy okay so jay reynolds was the first victim um he was found on
00:29:25
march 22nd 1982 he was found stabbed to death on the outskirts of lexington kentucky and all of
00:29:32
These. OK. Nine months later, on October 3rd, 14 year old Delvoye Baker was strangled.
00:29:41
His body was dumped on the roadside of north roadside north of Indianapolis. And Stephen Crockett, who was 19 on October 23rd, was stabbed 32 times.
00:29:52
Four of those wounds were to the head discarded outside Lowell Indiana So then the killer goes to Illinois and on November 6th he leaves the body of Robert Foley in a field northwest of Joliet
00:30:08
Joliet? Law enforcement is like, uh-oh, there's a pattern, right? Assaults on young men, which back then we know wasn't something that would look very deep.
00:30:19
Like if you look at any of these interstate killings of young men, not looked into very deeply.
00:30:25
So stabbing and strangulation are present in every case. So then on Christmas of 1982, 25-year-old John Johnson's body is found dumped in a field outside Belshaw, Indiana.
00:30:37
Three days later, 21-year-old John Roach is discovered near Belleville. And then the bound body of 23-year-old car wash employee from Terre Haute.
00:30:48
His name is Stephen Agan. A-G-A-N. Agan. Stephen Agan. He'd been stabbed to death and discarded north of Newport, Indiana.
00:30:59
So then on June 6, 1983, an anonymous caller tells cops that he knows who the interstate killer is.
00:31:06
He says that someone he knew had been picked up and attacked by the killer and had played dead after being assaulted.
00:31:13
And so he knows who the person was. The man's name was Larry Eller. Sorry, Larry Eller.
00:31:20
And he's arrested. can i say his name correctly when you steven that out steven that out his name is could you
00:31:27
steven that out that's a new thing so leave that all in just for that so actually leave that holy
00:31:34
shit steven that out even that out please i just ruined this the man's name is larry eller and he
00:31:41
is arrested okay let's talk about larry eller he's born in crawfordsville indiana on december 21st
00:31:47
1952. By the time he was a teen, his mother had married and divorced four times.
00:31:53
Oh, that's too many. That's too many. He, I mean, that's fine for like, what? So like every three years.
00:31:59
Yeah. I was trying to do the math. Yes. He attends Catholic schools, has some difficulty. At 10 years old, he's sent to the
00:32:06
Riley Child Guidance Clinic in Indiana, where psychologists, where psychological tests reveal
00:32:13
normal intelligence but extreme insecurity and great fear of separation and abandonment.
00:32:20
The staff of the clinic said that his home environment was unstable and chaotic and
00:32:25
recommended that he be sent to live elsewhere. So at the age of 12, he went to live in a Catholic boy's home.
00:32:31
Oh no. I know, where he stayed for five months. Little did they know. Little or did they know.
00:32:38
It was later said by a forensic psychiatrist that his his history was one of the worst cases of child abuse he had seen in 20 years in the field.
00:32:48
Oh no. Yeah. So there's not a lot of details about it, but they like hinted things,
00:32:52
but they don't go too deep into it. Like you can't find details except for one thing about
00:32:57
one of his stepdads would pour hot water on his head when he was like mad at him. It's just like,
00:33:03
that's all, you know, and that's horrible, but there wasn't a lot of other information about it.
00:33:08
So he dropped out of high school in his senior year, worked odd jobs for a couple of years.
00:33:14
And not long after leaving high school, he joined the monastery. And then he quit the monastery.
00:33:20
So Larry Eller is struggling all his life to cope with what turns out to be his homosexuality.
00:33:27
So he was simultaneously fascinated and repelled by it. He hated himself for it, but he couldn't help himself.
00:33:33
I bet the Catholic boys home did a lot of good for that issue. I bet you're right.
00:33:40
Yeah. That was all sarcasm. That was total sarcasm. So he killed his first victim at around 30 years old.
00:33:48
Larry was arrested for the assault that the anonymous caller had called in. But the case was dropped when Eiler gave the victim money and the victim was like, fine, I'm out of here.
00:34:02
which is totally understandable. You don't want to relieve this whole trauma for no reason.
00:34:06
Yeah. The bodies of young men then continued to be found throughout the spring of 1993
00:34:14
with most of the action shifting to Illinois. By July 2nd, the body count stood at 12.
00:34:20
Some of the victims had been mutilated after death and a few had been disemboweled.
00:34:25
Whoa. Yeah. The 13th victim was Ralph Khaleesi, and he was found on August 31st, dumped in a field near Lake Forest, Illinois.
00:34:34
He had been dead less than 12 hours when he disappeared and was discovered. He was bound with clothesline and a surgical tape, stabbed 17 times, and his pants were pulled down around his ankles.
00:34:47
Then, on October 30th, 1983, in Indiana, a highway patrolman spotted a pickup truck parked along the Interstate 65.
00:34:54
two men were walking towards a bunch of trees. He stops them. One was bound. And when the officer went to investigate,
00:35:03
he identifies Larry Eiler as the owner of the truck. So the cop catches him as he's about to lead someone into the forest.
00:35:13
Already tied up. Yeah. And the guy says, he told me he'd give me money for sex. He asked if he could tie me up.
00:35:23
and we were walking out towards the field. So the guy at that point was actually, it's voluntary.
00:35:30
Because he thinks, oh, I'm just going to get paid. Yeah. And I'm fine to do this.
00:35:33
Yes. So then when the officer searches the truck, he finds surgical tape, clothesline, and a hunting knife that's stained with blood.
00:35:41
So Eiler is taken in for questioning. And when the forensic experts check the blood,
00:35:47
they match it with that of Khaleesi, who had been found previously. They were also able to match the tire tracks left at the Khaleesi site with that of Eiler truck And police were like this is enough to put him behind bars But they let him go while they continued the investigation
00:36:07
Yeah, they can't just hold him. No. Yeah. So while the investigation continued in the Khaleesi murder, Eiler is set free.
00:36:14
Then on October 4th, 1983, 14-year-old Derek Hansen is found dismembered near Kenosha, Wisconsin.
00:36:21
Kenosha. Thank you. Sorry, 14? A lot of young kids. 11 days later, a young John Doe is discovered near Renelsier, Indiana?
00:36:35
That one I don't know. I only know Kenosha because my friend grew up right near it.
00:36:39
Okay, that was a good one. So I've heard him say it. Rensselaer. Rensselaer. Spell it.
00:36:43
R-E-N-S-S-E-L-A-E-R. I got lost at the two S's. Rensselaer. Rensselaer. Is it bear?
00:36:56
Oh, I got that one wrong. That was not my, what was it, Baxter? It looks like, it's spelled with an X in the middle.
00:37:03
It's like, it's pronounced bear. And it's like, well, you're just changing the rules of reading.
00:37:07
Yeah. Then you're actually, you're wrong. It's not last week. Why don't you call the mayor and tell them that he's wrong?
00:37:13
Well, guess what? I am the mayor. What? I just made myself the mayor. She just took off a mask and revealed that she is in fact the mayor.
00:37:20
That's true. Okay, almost two weeks later, another John Doe is found near Effingham, Illinois,
00:37:29
and two other victims, Richard Wayne and another unidentified male, were found dead outside of Indianapolis.
00:37:36
Then on October 18th, 1983, a couple is hunting for mushrooms at an abandoned Indiana farm, hanging out.
00:37:43
They're like, we found mushrooms here before. Let's get some more, right? Yeah, either for a salad or to trip out all day long.
00:37:50
Whatever this couple is into is their business. It's their business. They've been there before.
00:37:54
They're not there to hurt anyone. That's right. But they are there to find two skulls lying near a dilapidated barn.
00:38:00
No. So we can at least assume that they were stoned on pot. Yeah. If they're out looking for mushrooms.
00:38:07
And they're freaking out, man. And then they stumble upon like remains. That's awful.
00:38:12
Yeah. Those poor hippies. I know. And it actually turns out that they're also businessmen.
00:38:18
Well, it turns out they're the murderers. No, no, no. So many twists. They're also businessmen murderers.
00:38:24
Oh my God. Finally. That's the, that's the area I want to, I want to go into. It's all of it.
00:38:28
I want the murders that happen inside of the Enron building. Do you think any did?
00:38:33
I mean, they could have. There has to be at least one. There has to, there was so many people in that building.
00:38:37
Yeah. Everyone was like, like on a lot of pressure. Yeah. Okay. They had to either sell or buy.
00:38:43
Or kill. That's sell, buy, or kill on Lifetime. yeah oh write it down i don't know what about a grocery one called sell by dead no like a sell
00:38:58
by date and then it's like sell by colon dead dead i love it i love this okay we can keep working on
00:39:07
that one but the other one about enron is perfect sold it we sold it already great
00:39:11
Okay, there's an abandoned Indiana farm. They find two skulls lined together north of the barn off US Highway 41,
00:39:22
just across the Illinois state line in Newton County. Way to go, Newton County. Yeah, how simple you are to pronounce and read.
00:39:29
Thank you. I'm only doing murders from places that are just one syllable, but it's two syllables.
00:39:35
Just town. Yeah. Something town. No X's. Nothing. No double S's. Mm-mm-mm. When police get to the scene, they then find two other bodies.
00:39:44
Whoa. Near that barn? Mm-hmm. Fuck. One of the victims had been decapitated and all had their pants pulled down, and they had been stabbed to death.
00:39:55
Two of the victims were identified. Michael Bauer, which is my friend's ex-boyfriend's name.
00:39:59
He was a 23-year-old pizza deliverer, last seen taking out the trash at his parents' Portage Park home, which, what a fucking bummer.
00:40:07
Yes. And John Bartlett, who's 19, who was staying with his sister in Chicago after being discharged from the army.
00:40:15
I know. By this time, police were like, this is clearly Larry Eiler. They fucking knew it was him.
00:40:21
Another victim who had survived his attack identified photographs of Eiler. And another survivor came in and was like, yep, happened to me too.
00:40:30
But the investigators wanted him for homicide. So their circumstantial evidence was still incomplete.
00:40:36
So they wouldn't arrest him. Yep. So Larry Eiler at this point is under constant surveillance in Chicago.
00:40:43
And because of this, he files a suit against the Lake County Sheriff's Office, accusing them of mounting a, quote, psychological welfare.
00:40:50
Nope. Psychological warfare. Not welfare. That'd be a good thing. Campaign to unhinge his mind.
00:40:57
Right. Yes. That's what they do. That's what all the police are trying to do to this one guy.
00:41:01
Yeah. Who happens to also be a child molesting murderer. Yes. his claim for half a million dollars
00:41:08
is denied. What? He's not the victim in this scenario? No, it turns out. How odd. And as he's
00:41:13
leaving the courtroom, Eiler is arrested for Ralph Khaleesi's murder. Wow. That's sweet-ass
00:41:19
timing on those police people's part. They were just like, oh yeah, you want to go in and try to
00:41:25
sue the city? Okay, go ahead. We'll meet you out here. Don't get too stoked yet, though, Karen.
00:41:32
He's held in lieu of a million in bond, but in the pretrial hearing, February 5th,
00:41:37
1984, all the evidence recovered from Eiler's truck the night they found him with the guy who was bound
00:41:45
gets excluded. Why? Because the night that they found him in the truck, they held him
00:41:53
without arrest in the jail for over 12 hours Oh Which you not allowed to do yep you have to have a reason to hold him there that right like arresting him so he released on bail
00:42:06
i know it's a real bummer man it's crazy it's crazy when it happens when it's a serial killer
00:42:14
it's not this isn't a shoplifter yeah it's not like someone's rights were slightly stepped on
00:42:19
who was, you know, like a slumlord or something. Bad, very bad. But this is a person who is out,
00:42:26
a predator that's intentionally killing innocent people every day. Well, here's what gets even worse,
00:42:31
is now he goes on to kill a bunch of people after this. Right. Because they couldn't hold him.
00:42:37
Right. So on May 7th, 1984, 22-year-old David Block was found murdered near Zion, Illinois.
00:42:44
his wounds also was the pattern of everyone else who had been killed already um okay so then august 21st 1984 a janitor of an apartment house in chicago
00:43:01
goes to take out the garbage um and empty the garbage can and they're overflowing with gray
00:43:08
bags, like nice gray trash bags. And this guy, uh, his last name is Bala. Uh, he's like, those
00:43:17
trash bags aren't what my tenants use. My tenants use cheaper bags. He knew they weren't his tenants
00:43:22
because they were nice trash bags. And I was like, my tenants are pieces of shit. They don't buy this
00:43:26
stuff. They don't buy hefty. They buy fucking 99 cent store shit. Yeah. So it made him suspicious.
00:43:31
And he says, quote, I was very pissed off a little bit. So I opened one up, ripped it open.
00:43:37
I was very curious. What the hell am I throwing out? He says. Can you imagine what his accent
00:43:42
sounded like? This is Chicago, right? This is a Chicago janitor. Yeah, in the 80s.
00:43:49
The building manager guy. Who gets pissed about garbage. What am I throwing out? I just want to know.
00:43:54
I just want to know. You putting your garbage in here? I can't do the accent. Stephen, what's the accent for Chicago?
00:44:00
Do Chicago. Hey, I'm throwing at the garbage here. Well done. Get angry, though.
00:44:07
I'm throwing out the fucking garbage here. What? I don't know. I don't know. Steven that out.
00:44:15
That turned over into triple Chicago. Yeah. That was amazing. It's just like harder Axum is angrier.
00:44:21
Yep. So, of course, he's opening the bags and guess what? A leg slips out. No! Balls to the ground.
00:44:29
Yeah. So within eight bags are the remains of 15 or 16, I can't tell, year old hustler Danny Bridges.
00:44:43
He's like 15 or 16. He's a child sex worker, hustler. You know, the streets of Chicago back then, can you imagine seeing a 15-year-old like work in the streets and stuff?
00:44:56
In the 80s? Yeah, probably the 90s too, let's be honest. Right up till today. Well, so Danny Bridges is a known sex worker by Chicago Police Special Investigations Unit.
00:45:11
They had been established to combat child pornography and the sex abuse of children.
00:45:16
And they actually had worked with Danny to get his story to people who were advocating for teen sex workers.
00:45:22
So there's a couple channels doing news stories. I guess there's video of him talking to them, like doing news stories.
00:45:29
I can't find them. And I would fucking love to see them. This kid looks so like, he just looks like he knows too much about life.
00:45:39
15 years old. Yeah. He's a freshman in high school. Well, I don't think he goes to school at this point.
00:45:45
Yeah, but I mean, just the equation of like, if he had rich parents, if he grew up in Evanston
00:45:50
and was, you know, had a little eyes odd sweater on and was listening to fucking the specials.
00:45:57
There we go. Topsiders. Made me be quiet. So he was warned by the Chicago special police
00:46:06
to stay away from this guy. From Eller. Everyone is like, stay the fuck away from this guy. We're trying to get him. He's a murderer.
00:46:18
of people you know. Stay away from. Okay, but later, one member of the Special Investigations Unit
00:46:26
acknowledged in the book What Cops Know by Connie Fletcher that the unit encouraged child prostitutes to have sex
00:46:35
with adults in order to make arrest. As in they would set them up like a sting operation.
00:46:40
Right. Which I know is super inflammatory, but it's in this book. I didn't say it.
00:46:45
The quote is... Well, that was basically the practice was they're using these children as bait so they can get these bad guys. It's the only way they can actually
00:46:52
lure them out. Right. They can't use legal people to do it, even though it was completely.
00:46:58
But ethically, they should be using evidence that's not putting a child at risk.
00:47:03
Exactly. And that's the like, yeah, I guess even if it was like someone who was of age
00:47:08
and they were working with the police for some reason, but this is just like so dark and deep.
00:47:13
Well, these days they would just use people who are looking. It would be a 21 Jump Street.
00:47:17
sex worker addition. Yes. So he said, the quote from the SIU investigator says, our opinion is that you should
00:47:27
go out and find the crime. What better way to prove and have him what better way to prove the crime than to get it
00:47:35
in progress or to follow someone home and have him go to bed with a kid? Is what this guy said in this book.
00:47:42
Yeah. 82? 84? This book was written in 91. Oh no. I know. So it seems that they acknowledge that the unit encouraged child sex workers to have sex
00:47:55
with adults in order to make arrests. Right. So... So Danny Bridges was needed to testify in pending child pornography trials.
00:48:03
So this kid was like deep in it and he gets killed. So in one of the NBC videos, a reporter asks in 1984, asks Danny Bridges about Eiler.
00:48:15
And he says, yeah, I knew him. He was a real freak. He used to come around uptown and hang around.
00:48:20
So this kid, Danny Bridges, knows about Eiler. And the question then is, why would he go home with him if he already knew he was a creep?
00:48:28
so Danny Bridges is going to get into a car with a guy that he knows is a creep no unless maybe he was doing it
00:48:34
for the police is kind of the question which is one of the literally live bait worst case scenario
00:48:43
and it was never I mean this is just like something I found in a bunch of little articles
00:48:47
which I'll name at the end of this so perhaps the whole thing was a sting that went wrong because
00:48:54
Danny did get killed how the fuck does that happen Like you, that's so, that's the craziest version of that story where it's just like, like if the cops were using him as bait, then what excuse in the world could they have to then somehow lose track of him? You know what I mean? Like that would be the only, if you're letting a child get into the car with a known serial killer, you can't like, Oh, whoops, they took a wrong turn. I mean like that's insanity.
00:49:21
Well, here's the other part of this that gets in here somewhere is that they think that Larry Eiler might have had an accomplice.
00:49:28
Oh. Because Danny's fingerprints were never found on Larry Eiler's car. So maybe someone else picked him up, brought him back there.
00:49:36
Wow. I know. It's really complicated. Okay. But also usually, isn't that rare that serial killers would have like have an accomplice or work with someone else?
00:49:46
I would think so. But who knows? I mean. I'll ask. Would you ask? I'll ask my friend.
00:49:53
I'll ask my friend at the FBI. Would you ask your accomplice, your serial killer accomplice?
00:49:58
I'll ask my boss. Ask the guy you're working with to kill people. Okay, so witnesses, you know, after they find the body parts in the garbage bags,
00:50:07
witnesses say they saw a man who lived next door, put the bags in the trash, and he is Eiler, who's 31 years old at this time.
00:50:15
So he just took the garbage to the place next door during the day. He wanted to get caught.
00:50:23
Or he was just really stupid. So Larry Eiler is convicted of murder of Danny Bridges.
00:50:32
And my Lord, she's being real. She's all over the map. Okay. He's convicted of murder and aggravated kidnapping of Danny Bridges
00:50:40
on October 3rd, 1986. He's sentenced to die. Then in November of 1990, he's bargaining to save himself from execution.
00:50:48
He agrees to help Indiana authorities solve a number of his crimes if they would get him off death row.
00:50:54
So he confesses to the killing of the Agin torture slaying and surprised investigators by naming an alleged accomplice.
00:51:03
Accomplice? I keep saying words wrong today. I don't know what's going on with me today.
00:51:06
I'm having a stroke. It's all right. Accomplice. So 53-year-old Robert David Little, he's the chairman of the Department of Library Science at Indiana State University.
00:51:18
What? And this murder of Agan happens when he's staying with Larry as a guest. And according to Eiler, Little took the photos and masturbated while Larry disemboweled the victim.
00:51:35
Oh, no. So he's like, let's pick up, boys. You do this, I'll do that. So he's like, part of it.
00:51:41
And it's kind of his like this guy, Dr. Little is like his sugar daddy. He's like paying for his places to live.
00:51:48
He used to be a student of Dr. Little. And they're like working together. What the fuck?
00:51:53
Yeah, it's some real twisted shit that they better fucking make a movie out of. Because I'm confused.
00:51:59
He's a professor of library science. So there's like a real that you could make that a super creepy in the stacks style murder.
00:52:10
Yeah. story who would play him i'm already wondering i mean are you watching fargo and how amazing
00:52:16
what's his name is you and mcgregor oh my god but the woman um i don't know her name offhand
00:52:23
who's also in the leftovers yes she's amazing she's so good she's those two characters are
00:52:27
so different i am loving mary stewart something or other not masterson mary stewart little no
00:52:34
Mary Beth Mary Beth Mary McBeth It's Mary McBeth from the play I am loving the young hot girl though
00:52:44
Are you caught up? Yes You mean the one she's playing? Who's also playing the sheriff?
00:52:51
That's not her The police chief I mean? The girl with the short black hair? Yeah
00:52:56
That's the Ewan McGregor's the dumpy brother his girlfriend is the same as the chief
00:53:02
Hold the fuck up Yes No, no, no. Wait. I'm the one that gets to tell you this? I told this to Vince.
00:53:07
And he's like, no. Well, Vince is straight up wrong. No. Yes. I mean, I almost yelled at Steven.
00:53:12
Vince! Vince! We're getting a divorce. Steven, is this true? Mary Elizabeth Winstead.
00:53:18
Yes. Is that what you're thinking of? Yes. She's playing both characters. It doesn't say on the main Wikipedia page.
00:53:24
Come on, Wikipedia. But if we go deeper. Hold on, hold on, hold on. Who's the...
00:53:30
It's her. She plays... I'm telling you, eyeliner. Nikki. Nikki Swango. Nikki Swango's the girlfriend that's rock and roll.
00:53:39
Yeah. And she plays her? Then also the chief. She's the chief. Wikipedia is failing me right now.
00:53:45
I'm looking at IMDB. I am so mad at you right now. You're going to get Steven out of here.
00:53:49
Everything you have to say from now on is in a Chicago accent. Oh, no. IMDB Fargo Season three I going to have to put this on pause Season three If I get this before you Stephen you fucking fired Well he trying to hold a microphone and then do it with one finger
00:54:05
Well, that's his problem. Okay. All right. Okay. Here we go. Now I think you're wrong.
00:54:11
No way. Carrie Coon is the chief. What? Yep. It's two different actresses? Mary Elizabeth something.
00:54:19
God, I thought so. Mary Elizabeth Winstead. Mary Elizabeth Winstead's only the girlfriend?
00:54:25
I've had so many conversations About how amazing Including with me because I was like
00:54:32
Uh huh I agreed with you a couple weeks ago They look so much alike I asked Vince who was the same person too
00:54:38
Because I agree We always have to believe Vince now Why? He's never wrong He's never wrong
00:54:46
He also doesn't say shit like I do Or I'm like no I'm positive And I'm like oh you're right I'm wrong
00:54:51
I do that shit all the time Also, I listen, look, look and listen. You said that she plays two characters and I didn't want to be like, I think you're wrong.
00:55:00
So I was like, oh, yeah. Oh, you always got to say if you think I'm wrong. It happens a lot.
00:55:05
Have you tried telling yourself, telling you that you think you're wrong? If you're confronting me.
00:55:10
I don't like arguing. No, no, no. I just think I don't like, I would rather assume that I'm wrong because I usually am.
00:55:16
Okay. What was that thing I said the other day? The cockles of your heart? Hackles.
00:55:21
I said cockles. Yeah. No, you said something about getting your, I don't want to get my, you said something about
00:55:29
the, I said, I don't want my, you said something about the cockles up. Right. And the, but it was
00:55:35
hackles. This is why I don't argue when people tell me a thing. I know, but I feel like, okay,
00:55:40
well I would also, when I'm positive about something, it almost changes the fact I get
00:55:45
so positive. I think we're exactly the same way. I believe you do the same thing where it's like,
00:55:50
oh no no look it up yeah like let's wait until you see this that i'm right i don't under but
00:55:55
here's the thing this happens all the time in casting why are you casting two women who look
00:56:01
all i thought was that the that the that the police chief woman just had less eyeliner and
00:56:10
a different haircut and i'm like this is brilliant that they're making her look a little bit older
00:56:14
simply by not because the brothers are the same person so why couldn't this be that too i thought
00:56:20
it was i thought was i thought it was like a theme i did too i did too i think i stopped thinking
00:56:25
that would have been said no i would have doubled down um and i think she is killing it so who do
00:56:33
you think is killing it then the chief i love the chief i think now the girlfriend mary elizabeth
00:56:39
is fucking it's suddenly about her yes and i fucking am like at first i was like who like
00:56:46
what's this peripheral character and now it's about her and I fucking love her. Yeah.
00:56:50
She's, I think I liked them both a lot, but I did too, but I'm, I wasn't, I knew that
00:56:54
this, that the other Carrie was good in the leftovers. So I wasn't worried about that, but this chick is awesome.
00:57:01
I'm mad. I just think she's now, I think she's bad. No, I'm just kidding. I just thought that it was this amazing job of when you are the kind of girl that dresses
00:57:12
rock and roll, like the, like the hot girlfriend, you have a kind of aura about you that looks like
00:57:18
that. And when you are a woman that is just trying to fucking get some shit done and have people
00:57:23
listen to you, you look like Carrie Coon, which is kind of an all business hair haircut and not a
00:57:31
lot of makeup and not a lot of that. And a lot of just like, I'm not trying to do anything. And it
00:57:35
seemed like this perfect presentation of like when, what you do with your womanly attractiveness
00:57:44
based on the job you have or based on what you're trying to get done with your job.
00:57:48
And it's this thing too of like, you can either use the fact that you're hot or pretty or you
00:57:55
cannot, but the one way isn't better than the other. Exactly right. They're both, it's up to
00:58:00
you in both ways. And they're both very effective. I just loved that presentation. I'm like, I was
00:58:05
giving it so much fucking credit. You need to call a couple people you were at parties with. I'm so mad
00:58:11
right now of me holding forth on what it means philosophically and representationally of the woman's role
00:58:19
or whatever. I wonder how many people have argued your point once they believed you at parties or whatever.
00:58:25
Let's not act like I go to a bunch of parties. I haven't talked to anybody but the two of you in like a month.
00:58:32
Those Hollywood parties and our therapist. oh that's right i just tried to tell our therapist um she has been in oh she was in
00:58:40
scott pilgrim okay she's cute okay oh rock and roll girl was the girlfriend in scott pilgrim
00:58:49
yeah yes she's great and she was in 10 cloverfield lane she's great i love that man okay she's been
00:58:55
in some cool shit what about carrie coon she's been she's from the leftovers she's from the
00:59:00
leftovers. Isn't that enough for you? It is. That's funny. Let's see here. Should we be doing more
00:59:08
Wikipedia-ing or should you finish your story? Oh, I'm not done? Fuck. I thought I was done.
00:59:15
Fuck. God damn it. I don't want to keep going. Listen, he's a fucking asshole. He died of AIDS.
00:59:22
Oh, God. No, really, he dies of AIDS. Fuck. Sorry, that was the end of the fucking story.
00:59:26
Okay, I'm almost done. He has a guy who does it with him. That's the darkest. I feel like that's the darkest.
00:59:35
That's probably why we just took a serious left turn. We just touched into the darkest area possible, which is a team of serial killer situations.
00:59:45
Fuck that. Also against children. Totally. Totally. So based on his confession Larry Eiler receives a 60 prison sentence on top of what he been going on through So in return he agrees to testify against Dr Little who arrested on the murder charges And in the absence of physical evidence to support Eiler statement
01:00:05
Little is acquitted of all charges in 1991. So, okay, later Larry Eiler's attorney finds out that Dr. Little had been paying for Larry Eiler's defense.
01:00:20
So Larry's testifying against Dr. Little for the prosecution. but has a financial relationship with the prosecution's lead witness and a legal duty to his client.
01:00:30
And it's all crazy fucked up. So that shouldn't have happened. However, OK, back in Illinois.
01:00:35
But it happened anyway, basically. It did. But they didn't figure that out until one time later.
01:00:39
Back in Illinois, Larry offers to clear 20 murders in exchange for commutation of his sentence to life imprisonment.
01:00:46
the state authorities say no. And then I wrote dicks because there, there were more murders going
01:00:53
on after Larry Eilers was put into prison that were very similar to what was going on when he
01:00:59
was killing people. Was it Dr. Library Little? It was someone else who worked in a similar manner.
01:01:05
And Larry Eilers is like, yo, I'll tell you everything. And I'll put all of this to bed.
01:01:10
if you just don't kill me. And this guy who was like, this was the new something.
01:01:16
District attorney? Thank you. And he was like, no, we put him, Jack O'Malley, he was the Cook County state attorney.
01:01:23
He could keep Isler in jail for the rest of his life, solve more than 20 old murders,
01:01:28
help bring to justice a killer or killer still on the loose, and save taxpayers hundreds of
01:01:33
thousands of dollars in appeal costs. But good old Jack O'Malley said, a bird in the hand is
01:01:38
better than 20 in the bush. Literally said that. So he said no. So he was basically saying killing
01:01:44
this one guy is worth it. Okay. All right. Okay. So Larry Eiler dies of AIDS on March 6th, 1984,
01:01:53
41 years old. Kathleen Zellner handles Eiler's appeals. She describes the killings. He tells her
01:02:01
about all the killings over the last three years before he dies. And she convinces him.
01:02:04
she convinces him to let her release his confession after his death. So she released a list of 21 killings to which she said Eiler confessed
01:02:12
and that he said he had an accomplice for four of the killings. He took a polygraph text that supported all of these things.
01:02:23
So it's all true, maybe, probably. So I don't know if you recognize the name Kathleen Zellner.
01:02:30
Is it the It makeup products that like make your... Zellner for don't get a case of the Mondays.
01:02:39
We'll exonerate your pores. I don't know. Is that what you mean? Trying to think of stuff.
01:02:46
You were going on my riff. I thought you were giving me clues for who she really could be.
01:02:50
No, no, no. Oh, my God. I was like, what? How should I know that? Puzzles? Oh, no, no.
01:02:55
I was going off your riff badly. You couldn't tell because they were very bad. We'll exonerate your pores.
01:03:01
I disagree. I agree. I think you did great. Thank you so much. I'm honored. You're saying that because it's my birthday.
01:03:09
No, I'm not. No, I never do that. Okay. One Miss Kathleen Zellner, who, by the way, if this had been turned into a movie like it was supposed to called Privileged Information, would have been played by Jessica Biel, is also now Steve Avery's new appellate attorney.
01:03:24
From Wisconsin? Making a murderer? Mm-hmm. So she is a defense attorney. She's on appeals.
01:03:32
she's the appeals attorney. Once you get convicted, she comes in and is like, let's see if we can turn this around. So she
01:03:38
that's what she did for him in that she found out that that his whole defense had been
01:03:44
paid for by the person he ended up fingering. Oh, Dr. Little. So she was like, what the fuck? So she basically
01:03:50
she goes through everything from the trial and is like, here's what this fucked up. Here's what that
01:03:54
fucked up. We're going to go back and appeal all of this based on this, not based on
01:03:58
even whether or not you did it or based on, you know, it's purely legal. It's like the prosecutors didn't turn
01:04:05
over enough this evidence they were supposed to. Did this get, did this go by the book?
01:04:09
Right. Which might or not mean that the guy is guilty, but it doesn't matter because it's
01:04:13
process. So she's process. Yeah. Which is great. Good for her. All right. George is like, I'm being forced to say this.
01:04:20
No, I mean that though. It's like, you know, it's the thing that fucking guy Brenham
01:04:25
says to us too, which is like, it doesn't matter. You have to give them a good fight.
01:04:29
Right. Which is like, no, but I'm in jail forever. All right. So a bunch of 11 bodies after his arrest, uh, 11 bodies turn up in rural
01:04:37
counties in Ohio and Indiana, all the same age, ligature marks, all this shit. Um, and then,
01:04:45
so, um, that's it. Where's Dr. Fucking little. Is he the one doing it? I don't, you can't find
01:04:58
information about this shit. Oh, I want to give a shout out to, um, this, the, the article really
01:05:03
that sums up everything really well was called the return of Larry Eiler from the Chicago reader in
01:05:08
1992. And it's written by John Conroy. And it really is the best article you can read of it.
01:05:14
And then there's a couple other ones here and there that gives some information, but it's so
01:05:18
hard to find anything. Right. Um, but this return of Larry Eiler. I want to read that. It's,
01:05:24
it's just such a fucked up. I hope I told that well enough. And I know I was like,
01:05:28
I didn't say words correctly sometimes, which is how I do things. Hey, it's your birthday. It's my birthday. Uh, no, that's dry. Amazing. Well, now I just
01:05:37
want to, now I'm so mad and want to know. Uh, it also, that sounds like such a dumb political
01:05:44
stance of, yeah, we are going to kill him cause we've got the chance to kill him and he deserves
01:05:50
to be killed, so we're going to kill him. Well, this this guy was also like it was his first death penalty that he had gotten and they were all proud of that So he didn want to give it up and so all these parents whose kids had disappeared and they didn know where they were and people
01:06:06
who thought it was going to keep happening were like give this guy life in prison he's not going
01:06:09
to get out and this chick Kathy or Catherine Zellner was also like because the the guy was
01:06:16
like well what if he then gets out in 30 years because we took the death penalty away and she
01:06:20
like prove that he wouldn't because of these, because of this other, um, this other thing
01:06:25
he got found guilty of. So it was never going to happen anyways. And this guy just like, yeah, he's admitting to 20 murders and you give him a life sentence.
01:06:32
He, he won't get out and 20 life sentences with no parole. He wouldn't have. Oh, that's fucking heavy.
01:06:39
Yeah. So it's just, it's just fucking sad and crazy that we've never heard. It's just another one of those, like, you know, a disenfranchised group of people are
01:06:48
getting killed. So nobody cares. And it's not a big deal to anyone. Right. Except their families. So why prosecute hard or what, you know? Yeah. And no, it's nothing against the cops. And actually, there's one John Doe that one of the counties had. They could never find out who it was. So they all the cops there paid for a funeral for him and like and like went to the funeral and visit the grave and got him a headstone. And it's like it's not it's just.
01:07:18
It's just shitty. It's so shitty. Yeah. It's such hard work. And that's so shitty.
01:07:23
Yeah. Well, and you know, this made me think of in just a pull out bigger picture thing, because
01:07:30
we, even since I was in high school, being in high school in the eighties, the difference
01:07:34
of the way people talk about being gay, people treat gay people, it is exactly the opposite
01:07:41
of how when I was a teenager. And so I think the younger people don't appreciate it as much, but this is such a great example
01:07:48
of people going like, you know, men marrying men or women marrying women, what's next or whatever,
01:07:54
all that kind of shit. It's such a, like when you look at how, when you repress and oppress
01:08:01
people and tell them that they can't be who they are, the kind of things, the kind of psychological
01:08:06
damage that that causes and what that can turn into in certain people, obviously not always
01:08:11
But the idea of that, that people back then, not that long ago, were absolutely forced to not only deny who they were, but some were made to despise who they were to the point of having to kill.
01:08:28
It's such a fucking heavy concept. Well, what's crazy, too, is if like for the victim side, it's also that thing of like when you when you make fun of people for that thing and you make them less human and less you identify with them less as a human being.
01:08:44
And so when these horrible things happen to them, you can't have empathy for them because you don't think they are normal human beings.
01:08:49
Right. And the other thing I was going to say was something really poignant about.
01:08:53
Well, that I mean, on top of that, which is an incredibly poignant thing to say, what you just said is kind of it almost like that argument that was so popular online five years ago or whatever of like everything's funny.
01:09:08
Rape is funny. Anything is funny. Like maybe in your small group of friends that could be true to you and the people who are just like you.
01:09:19
But in the larger scheme of things, that's exactly right. It's, it's dehumanizing to people and it's, uh, and it's dehumanizing to situations where
01:09:29
it's like, but that's actually not the case for everyone. And this, it feels like these days, the attempt almost subconscious societal, you know, as
01:09:40
a human race, we're just trying to be more connected and more empathetic to each other,
01:09:46
no matter who that other person is. And so if that person isn't like you, might not laugh at those same jokes as you, of course, you can still tell whatever fucking joke you want.
01:09:55
But the idea is, are you going to make a human connection or not? Are you going to cancel that connection forever?
01:10:01
Because you so value your momentary need to say whatever the fuck you want. And I think more and more people are being like, what the fuck is wrong with you that you need to make fun of these people?
01:10:11
And I think what's really cool nowadays, too, is that we're so much more willing to call people out on their shit.
01:10:15
Yeah. Like, why are you making a rape joke? And when you do make a rape joke with five of your friends, you don't know if one of them has been raped.
01:10:21
And so they're never going to come forward because you're making it a joke. Yeah.
01:10:24
And I think that people are more willing to call other people out on it now. And there is a psychological thing with people who can make jokes about that, that there's something fucking wrong with them.
01:10:32
A hundred percent. I think that's really what it's turning into is as opposed to talking about this as a need or a right or anything like that.
01:10:41
It's just like, well, actually, it's just a reflection on you. Yeah. Which is really what it, I mean, it's all of these, it's a very complex thing. It's, it's all of these things at once, but ultimately, like for me as a person, it just makes me think of you as a person less. Yeah. Definitely less. I just don't talk about that. I think of you less, but I absolutely think of you less in the same way that like, there are a lot of people who didn't grow up while AIDS was a thing. I was, I can remember the news report when they first reported AIDS as an
01:11:14
issue in the Bay Area. I remember it. I remember how my parents reacted. I remember the moment,
01:11:19
I think I was like 11 and growing up under this unbelievably scary, dark thing of AIDS.
01:11:27
And then having my friend Ken Mason, who was one of my closest friends from sixth grade
01:11:31
through high school, um, died when he was 22 years old because he was closeted and because he
01:11:37
got AIDS, uh, 20, 22 or 23. It was, it was very, very sad, but like when people make AIDS jokes,
01:11:45
I don't go never make that joke again or whatever. I just go, Oh, you don't get it. You don't get,
01:11:51
but also that you don't get it. It's almost like proclaiming your ignorance of, of lack of empathy,
01:11:57
but also just that you haven't really been through life that. much you haven't lived you're probably kind of spoiled yeah both your parents are probably still
01:12:04
alive you know what i mean like when you decide that you get to make whatever race joke you get
01:12:09
to say the n-word you all this shit that you think you can do just reflects on you it's just about
01:12:16
the quality of your character totally why am i still talking because it's important
01:12:22
Steven, Steven, all that out, please. Steven it out. Let's all make this a mini-sode.
01:12:32
Steven it out. Steven it out. That's going to be our, like, break music. Steven it out.
01:12:37
Won't you Steven it out? Always go up at the end. Steven it out. Won't you Steven it out?
01:12:44
It out. Okay, we're back. Do you have updates? I do, actually. In April 2021, one of the four victims discovered near an abandoned farmhouse in Lake Village, Indiana, in October of 83, was identified using DNA and genetic genealogy as John Brandenburg, Jr.
01:13:06
He was 19 and originally from Kentucky, and he went missing from Chicago. Then in December 2021, another victim, William Lewis of Peru, Indiana, was identified as a victim discovered in Jasper County, Indiana in October of 83.
01:13:22
He was also just 19. Then in July of 2023, Keith Bibbs, another one of the four Lake Village victims, was identified.
01:13:31
He was the last of the four to be identified. He was from Chicago and he was 16 years old.
01:13:37
So National Geographic created a docuseries, which I have to check out, called Naming the Dead.
01:13:43
And the episode The Hitchhiker focuses on law enforcement efforts in DNA Doe Project identifying two of Eiler's victims.
01:13:51
That aired just recently in August 2025. So go check that out. Naming the Dead is what it's called.
01:13:58
Yeah, that sounds good. It's so great that we're finally able to put names to these children.
01:14:04
I mean, they're teenagers still. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I hope that this just keeps unraveling and, you know.
01:14:11
Yeah. All right, let's do your story. This is one I've just never forgotten. And maybe it's because I live near Glendale, but it's just so disturbing.
01:14:20
So wild. You know, let's listen to Karen's story about the pillow pyro. Hey, everyone.
01:14:31
It's Cal Penn. And I'm the host of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.
01:14:37
This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook Project Hail Mary,
01:14:45
massive sci-fi adventure about survival and science, and what happens when you wake up alone very far from Earth.
01:14:53
I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat
01:14:58
and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent?
01:15:03
And I really thought about it. I was like, no, at this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it.
01:15:13
But there's places in this book that deeply emotionally affected me. And I left it on the mic.
01:15:20
That's great. Because it served the story. People will say like, oh, my God, I cried at the end.
01:15:24
It's like, yeah, dude, me too. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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01:16:34
Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying.
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It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today.
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I'm told it's super easy to do at MintMobile.com slash switch. All right, let me tell that story one more time.
01:17:39
My murder story one more time. Good practice. Just to get it right. Right. Did I make a lot of mistakes in the beginning of that?
01:17:45
Can I redo it, Stephen? Not right now. He has all your fixes in there. No, but like the words I miss said
01:17:51
I'm just going to put Natalie in between Oh no Natalie I sorry Um Do you want me to do mine Yeah Always and forever Okay Here mine
01:18:05
This I got, I was watching forensic files as we all, I think I swear to God, I think someone just very recently tweeted at me.
01:18:14
Do you watch forensic files? I'm not kidding. Karen is hot about this. The answer is yes.
01:18:21
If there's a policeman in it, I've at least watched it one time. that's the rule. Also, people are recommending BBC things. We don't have it yet. Don't ask me if it's
01:18:32
the brand new. Okay. Take this out. This I've gone too far. Okay. I'm watching forensic files
01:18:39
and I have a recovered memory of the best forensic files I've ever seen. And I'm like,
01:18:43
how come I haven't done this one before? That's insane. I love it. I love, I love when that
01:18:47
happens. Right. And you're like, Oh my God, why haven't I? And it's like a big, so this,
01:18:53
when I watched this on Forensic Files the first time, I remember standing up and going like,
01:18:58
no way or something. It was one of those. So I was like, gotta look this up. Gotta find my info.
01:19:04
And it is insane. And it's an LA one. I want everyone to know that the word insane
01:19:10
by Karen's hand gestures was written in lights. You did the written in lights across. It was like
01:19:17
a Liza Minnelli Broadway move? Uh-huh. Insane! It was like if, yeah, like a cartoon
01:19:22
then could put up sparkly lights. Gling! That said insane. That said insane. It was gorgeous.
01:19:28
Okay, so this is the pillow pyro. I love it already. Right? So, you may remember this.
01:19:38
I don't know. You're a little too young. Throughout the 80s in Southern California,
01:19:42
there was a spate of arson fires that killed families. It cost tens of millions of dollars, went on for years, and baffled authorities.
01:19:55
And sometimes arson fires were being set up to three times a day. Holy shit. In the Southland, as they like to call it on the news here in Los Angeles.
01:20:06
And in one TV show that got canceled. Oh, Southland. The best. Starring Sean Haddesey.
01:20:10
okay so all of this is I'm retelling you a forensic files it's one of my favorites
01:20:17
that's where I get the chronology some of the wording whatever but also within that forensic
01:20:23
files they talk to one of the talking heads is a famous crime writer and he was also ex-LAPD
01:20:30
detective he was a detective for the LAPD for 20 years his name is Joseph Wambaugh and he wrote a
01:20:36
book called fire lover. So if you really want like the deep down story, which I would highly
01:20:41
recommend, I think I want to read this book after I got, um, I, I, those who hunt monsters.
01:20:46
I'm listening to it. That was one of my thing that I was happy about this week. No, it's
01:20:50
not. No, it's not. But yes, uh, it's not everything else, but you have been listening
01:20:53
to it. I started listening to it. Like all around the house. I can't stop. I forgot to
01:20:56
mention this in the beginning. Okay. We'll have to talk about it after. Okay. Okay. But
01:21:02
Fire Lovers next because this story is so fucking crazy. Take it. Okay. But as I wrote, I'm taking the chronology and the shape of the story from the forensic file.
01:21:12
Hey, girl. Okay. Okay. So this episode starts. And so I shall start on October 10th, 1984, because it's very good storytelling to start
01:21:25
it on the day that the San Diego Padres are playing the Detroit Tigers in the World Series.
01:21:30
Oh, everyone remembers that. Actually, I bet Vince remembers exactly where he was.
01:21:33
I'm sure he does, right? Detroit boy and all. And I believe they were playing in San Diego.
01:21:38
So, or maybe not. No, no, no. I'll ask Vince. It doesn't matter. Steven, Steven, Steven.
01:21:46
Okay. So it starts on October 10th, 1984. The San Diego Padres are playing the Detroit Tigers in the World Series.
01:21:53
And there's a hardware store in South Pasadena called Oli's. I don't know if you remember that chain of hardware stores.
01:22:00
It's like a... No, it's basically like old school Home Depot. Sure. So they interview a guy named Jim Obdam, who worked there in high school.
01:22:10
And he's talking about how he notices nobody's there because the World Series and the Padres are playing in the World Series.
01:22:16
So there's no business except for like a few people scattered around the store. So he hears an emergency message over the PA and then the fire alarm starts going off.
01:22:27
and so he looks he goes out into like the aisle and looks down and there's a huge plume of smoke
01:22:33
coming from like the back of the store whatever and so he turns and he starts helping the few
01:22:39
customers that are there to try to get them out the fire exit doors and as they're trying to walk
01:22:45
toward it it's just becomes a wall of flames and the entire store is like up and fully engulfed
01:22:52
Like immediately he said it happened so fast. He got out of the store, but he had really bad burns on one arm.
01:22:59
He said he touched his arm and skin just came off. No, no. Yes. So, um, uh, he gets out, but, uh, four people got trapped in and killed in that fire.
01:23:13
Um, two customers, grandmother ate a deal and her two year old grandson, Matthew Troidel,
01:23:20
and then two employees, 17-year-old Jamie Satina and 26-year-old Carolyn Krause,
01:23:27
they all died in that fire. Oh, my God. So the official explanation was that it was an electrical fire.
01:23:34
But the arson investigator from the Glendale Fire Department was on the scene. He believed it was arson right off the bat.
01:23:42
He took pictures. He documented the whole scene. When they were saying we think it's an electrical fire, he was arguing with them.
01:23:50
So then January 1987 there another fire at a different Oli hardware store um this fire so this is like three years later Okay Um two and a half three years later Um this one is set in the foam padding section
01:24:11
Um, Oh God. Yeah. And then the same day, 90 miles away in Bakersfield, there's a fire at a craft mart store um and in the bakersfield's uh fire um captain marvin casey
01:24:27
arrives at the scene at that fire and um he finds in a bin of dry flowers a slow burning incendiary
01:24:36
device which was three matches wrapped around a lit cigarette um with binder paper rubber banded
01:24:44
around the outside of all of it and then put into the dry flowers. So when the cigarette gets down to the butt, it lights the matches on fire?
01:24:54
Yep. And then the matches light the paper. And it's the whole thing is just this very rudimentary, slow-burning incendiary device.
01:25:00
That you would never look for. Right. Exactly. I'm so sorry. Elvis is eating the French fries that are on the counter.
01:25:12
Sorry. He's going to vomit those on the bed in the middle of the night if those are not taken.
01:25:17
Thank you, Steven. I think we should leave that in. I don't know, though, because you're like, I'm so sorry.
01:25:26
Elvis is eating. Steven, go get that. Oh, I didn't. I mean, look at me. I'm not getting up.
01:25:34
I don't want to be rude. Georgia's feet are above her head. She's so reclined. Oh, I have a pillow between my legs.
01:25:40
Okay. Sorry. No, no. Okay. So they find that incendiary of ice in the dried flowers that Marvin Casey does.
01:25:50
And then on the binder paper, he finds a fingerprint. So he sends that off to the lab.
01:25:56
And they're like, we have to get that fingerprint. But it's the 80s, remember? So everything is like...
01:26:01
A hundred years old. Xerox. It's the Xerox version of everything. Everything's a fax machine.
01:26:09
Everything's a carbon copy of a carbon. copy. Yeah. It's like dittos. Okay. Um, so while Marvin Casey is at the scene of that fire,
01:26:20
the craft smart store, he hears on the radio, a second fire breaks out at a different fabric
01:26:25
store in Bakersfield. So, um, they investigators that went to that fire found that that was also
01:26:33
intentionally set with a slow burning incendiary device in the pillow and foam rubber section of
01:26:39
the store. There were other suspicious fires in the neighboring towns north of Bakersfield,
01:26:46
Tulare, and Fresno. So it's basically all these cities up and down Highway 99, which is basically
01:26:52
in California, there's the five that goes up and down the entire state, which is what you drive
01:26:57
when you're going from LA to San Francisco and you want to go 95 miles an hour the whole time.
01:27:01
The 99 is further east and it's more of a two-lane highway. And you take that one when you're just
01:27:08
smoking a bunch of grass. So Marvin Casey hears the reports on the radio. And then he remembers there's an arson investigators convention in Fresno that weekend.
01:27:21
Oh, my God. And so he realizes that all of these fires are going up and down the 99 ending in Fresno
01:27:29
because Fresno is the northernmost of all the cities that that was happening in.
01:27:34
And so he goes, he's thinking, what if this arsonist is a fireman? And he goes to his bosses and, and, and explains this theory to them.
01:27:45
And they're like, you're fucking crazy. That's insane. It's, that's not true. Like, you know, they're, they're so not into that theory.
01:27:54
They were like, think inside the matchbox. Come on. But he was thinking outside the matchbox.
01:28:00
Oh, I get it. God. They basically say he's crazy. Okay. That's what they say. So they find matching slow-burning incendiary devices that match the Kraft Mart and the Olifires.
01:28:15
Then they take the print. He takes a print that's found. It's entered into APHIS, but there's no matches in the national database.
01:28:22
So he asks if he can cross check all the fingerprints of the people who are at that arson investigation convention with this one fingerprint.
01:28:34
And they say no. They said your theory is impossible and ridiculous. OK, so two years later, in March of 1989, there's another spade of fires.
01:28:44
This one's up and down the 101 and it's further north. Marvin Casey once again sees that there's an arson
01:28:52
investigation symposium in Pacific Grove. So this is up by Monterey from what I looked
01:29:00
on the map unless there's another Pacific Grove. So basically what Marvin Casey does is he
01:29:06
narrows down a list of 10 people who were at the first arson symposium and the most
01:29:12
recent arson symposium. I don't know if that's correct terminology. I would have guessed
01:29:16
that he was, that whoever was doing the fires was like mocking them or fucking with the people, the firefighters
01:29:22
at the symposium. Right. Could be. But he didn't. You mean like burning nearby like how you can't get them?
01:29:29
Yeah. Like you guys are all here and yet I'm still being honest. Well, anything's possible
01:29:32
at this point in the story. Except for my possibility. No, you're right. I mean, I think that's just so fascinating
01:29:39
to be thought of that. Right. Okay, so he He, he, uh, he makes the list of the 10 people who are both.
01:29:49
Um, and he finally, they start working. There been so many fires at this point They bring in the a Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms And so he gets ATF to cross the fingerprints with the one found on the incendiary device
01:30:08
There's no match. So it confirmed that Marvin Casey's theory is no good. His bosses are like, okay, are you going to drop this now?
01:30:17
Because that was your chance to prove it and your theory is wrong. So then two years later, in June of 1990, there's the College Hills fire.
01:30:26
This is a fire that was in those hills above Glendale. It burned 67 houses. Holy shit.
01:30:33
It's one of the biggest wildfires in California history. Oh my God. And it was proven to be arson.
01:30:40
So by the year's end, by the end of 1990, it was clear that this arsonist was at it again.
01:30:46
And finally, the ATF assigned special agent. I'm doing it too. Special Agent Mike Matassa to the case.
01:30:54
He, in starting to work on it and look through all of the evidence and the facts, finds out about Marvin Casey's theory.
01:31:01
And he thinks it's a good theory. So he goes back. He sees that the fingerprint didn't match anybody's.
01:31:08
So he has the idea that this time he's going to cross check that one fingerprint with anyone who's ever applied for a job with the city.
01:31:17
So instead of being those specific dudes, it's just, if it is a fireman or whoever it could possibly be, we'll know if we cross check it with the city fingerprints.
01:31:27
It could be the fucking fire receptionist. Fire house receptionist. It could be the fucking Dalmatian.
01:31:37
Could be the trainer. Why didn't you notice that there were five little pads? Those points of comparison or whatever they call it.
01:31:45
Okay, so, yeah, because you have to get your finger printed when you apply for a job with the city.
01:31:54
Comes back with a match. The match is a man named John Orr, who is the arson investigator for the Glendale Fire Department.
01:32:03
Was he at the first scene? Second scene. Yes, at the first story I told. It's the guy that was there immediately saying, this is arson.
01:32:11
He was calling it out as arson? Yes. Yes. Yes. Tell me everything. Okay. This is okay. At this point when they do this reveal in Forensic
01:32:20
Files, I was like, wait, so what? Because they do it so perfectly that you're like,
01:32:24
but who could this be? This is super weird. Or it's someone that wants to be a fireman.
01:32:28
Yeah. Because it wouldn't be the person that just makes no sense of the person. They're like,
01:32:31
it was our son. I know because I did it. Like that doesn't, right. You're like, you're kind of stupid or you're so smart. Well, it's, it's, it's that thing of like how
01:32:42
serial killers get so narcissistic and so, you know, they're psychopaths. Um, so they think
01:32:49
they're smarter than everybody. They don't think they're ever going to get caught. And they really
01:32:53
are. It's part of the, uh, joy of doing it is being, setting it and then being the first one
01:33:01
there to explain to everybody how it happened. Or showing up and thinking someone else is going
01:33:05
to be like, it's arson, but everyone else like it's natural. It's like, no, give me credit for
01:33:09
how smart I am. Yes. They're just saying it's fucking... Look around. Do you see this thing?
01:33:15
Someone must have been real smart over here. Look over in the pillows. Okay, so here's the deal with John Orr. He applied
01:33:23
to be a Los Angeles policeman first. He all his life wanted to be a policeman. He passed
01:33:29
every test except for the psychological exam. That can't be that hard to cheat, right?
01:33:37
I mean, his psych profile uh here's the quote from it uh from the results of that test it says he's a schizoid person
01:33:46
who is withdrawn from people and may have sexual confusion on his orientation that comes out in a in a cop test i don't i want to take it can we get the lapd to send us to
01:33:59
cop tests not the one where you have to climb over a wall dry no no no no that one i fucking
01:34:05
hate you know when they scramble straight up like a wooden wall yeah oh it makes me i want to light
01:34:09
that wall on that wooden wall on fire yes with a slow burning incendiary and take a psychological
01:34:14
test where i gotta sit indoors in the air conditioning and pass it and pass it with
01:34:18
flying colors okay so then he applies to be an la fire department okay a fireman he applies to be
01:34:26
the department he wants to become the entire department he applies to be a fireman in la
01:34:31
but he can't pass the physical fee yeah which i mean could anyone for real because also it's
01:34:39
not just being a fireman, but you're in a fireman in LA. Oh, my God. Where it's kind of like the cream
01:34:45
of the crop anyway in terms of people. A lot of people come here with big muscles. Sure.
01:34:51
Anyhow. And email Karen at if you're one of those. How big are your muscles? Let me know.
01:34:59
Yeah, because I'm super into that. I know that's what you're going to do. Big muscles. Totally.
01:35:05
Okay. So he doesn't pass the physical. He's crushed. So then he kind of like lays
01:35:13
low for a while and he applies to the Glendale Fire Department, which is less Tony and
01:35:21
exciting and statusy, obviously than the LA Fire Department. And probably easier to get into.
01:35:27
So he gets in and he actually does very well and he quickly is promoted to captain
01:35:33
and then eventually to arson investigator. So John Orr was also on Marvin Casey's list of the 10 people who were at both of those
01:35:45
arson conferences. Yep. And later on, they found that the only reason his fingerprint didn't match, it was just
01:35:55
like a lab mistake. It was the same fingerprint. Oh yeah. So that was... Almost. And also then I thought, ooh, or did somebody go, this can't get out or this can't be found out.
01:36:07
Sure. Although that'd be insane. And it's like, but then we'll let all of Glendale burn just to just to hide this one.
01:36:14
Maybe it won't happen again. Oh, my bad. Dang it. 67 houses. So after seven years of arson fires, they finally have a suspect.
01:36:25
but the fingerprint only puts him at one of the fires so they have to put him under surveillance.
01:36:32
It's so hilarious in this Forensic Files they talk all about GPS versus the tracker that they use on his car
01:36:40
and they're explaining GPS because no one knew what it was. This man talking about satellite technology
01:36:47
where I was like, oh my god we live in this triple future Totally. Compared to 1993 or whenever this. Okay. Totally. It's just so weird. I love it. So this is basically what happened. And I wish I couldn't find anything else about the specifics of this day. And I so wish I could. Also, I tried. I'll talk about it after. They find his car. They locate. So they put a tracker on his car. And they find once they get all this information, they're like, find him now. He has to be off the street.
01:37:19
you know um they find that he's not the warner brothers a lot in burbank and soon after they
01:37:27
locate his car there a fire breaks out on one of the tv show sets are you kidding me i swear to god
01:37:33
and i was like which one was it alf like you don't know i thought you're gonna make me guess
01:37:38
no i i wish i could oh someone's gotta know this someone's gotta know and that's what i was gonna
01:37:43
say it could be in there was a made for HBO movie called Point of Origin starring Ray Liotta playing
01:37:51
this guy radical and I'm I'm sure it's in there but the only I could find no versions of it not
01:37:57
on HBO Go nowhere not on YouTube there's a version of it have you ever seen this where people
01:38:02
illegally upload movies and so they put it into almost like a mortise so it's it's a TV screen
01:38:10
like yours, but turn to the side. The speed of the movie is speeded up like times two. So it's
01:38:16
Ray Liotta being like, get over here and take a look at this sentence. Like everything's going really fast.
01:38:19
I have no idea about that. And also there's an Asian girl standing there with a remote
01:38:24
control pointed at the TV. Like that's all static. And then the movie's happening in the screen.
01:38:30
You have to see it. It's hilarious if you look up Point of Origin. Okay. That's a 1990s
01:38:38
ripoff of a movie. is that. Yes. That's how you pirate a movie. In 1991. I tried to watch it for like four minutes and I was like
01:38:45
this is not fucking worth it. I feel like I'm about to go insane. Okay, so anyway.
01:38:50
But someone can and I bet you in that they say exactly what show they're on. So anyhow,
01:38:55
he leaves. Okay, so basically they find that he's at the Warner Brothers lot. Then they get the alarm. A fire
01:39:01
is broken out on the Warner Brothers lot. Elf is on fire. Elf's burning. His whole back is on fire. Someone
01:39:07
get over there right away. Which is funny because there is a fire department on the Warner Brothers lot.
01:39:12
There's actually like a fire truck and a firehouse and everything right there. Anyhow, ask me anything.
01:39:19
So they track him driving away from the Warner Brothers lot. And then when he gets the official call on his radio at home, he drives back.
01:39:29
But the radio operator gave the wrong address. So she's like, there's a fire at did he did he do.
01:39:35
He drives straight back to the Warner Brothers lot. They did that on purpose. Yes.
01:39:38
Well, they say it was, they say, um, they make it sound like it was her, it was the dispatcher's mistake.
01:39:45
But I bet you that was the test. Yeah. Um, cause you don't need to know the address of the Warner brothers a lot.
01:39:50
It's like the main thing in Burbank. Totally. Anyhow, that's when they knew it was absolutely him because he with being given a different address still went to where the fire was.
01:39:59
Yeah. So they're like, arrest him now. So that's, they're like, all right, I just said that.
01:40:05
Okay. Um, so they get a search warrant for his home and car. And then inside a briefcase, they find matches, binder paper, cigarettes, and rubber bands.
01:40:14
Oh, you ding dong. He claims it's a coincidence and that he's totally innocent. In his home, they find home video, um, that starts with a shot of a beautiful hillside home.
01:40:26
And it's like, it runs like that for like a couple minutes. And then it stops and it starts up again at eight, the same home, 18 months later, burning to the ground.
01:40:34
so it was all like planned 18 months 18 months he had planned it it's so crazy okay so then they
01:40:44
they also find in his house a manuscript for a book called points of origin that he's writing he
01:40:51
go ahead he wrote it he's writing a book about what do you think the book's about
01:40:56
um where he's from in europe his point of origin it's a book about an arson investigator who's actually really a serial arsonist is does ray
01:41:07
liota in the book version play him already what do you mean in the book version because
01:41:13
really never mind that's the movie name from hbo that's exactly right so he's writing it
01:41:19
well yeah but it's not the same he didn't write the the movie version because that would be cool
01:41:25
We're like, well, let's just use his. He even said Casarelli Oto, and so we're going to do it.
01:41:31
No, they basically go to his house and find a script that is his story, but with a different name.
01:41:38
The arson investigator's name is Aaron Stiles. But there's a list of similarities between the book and the facts of the case.
01:41:48
Both are firefighters. Both are non-smokers. This is from a legal document. Both use a delay incendiary device designed to fully ignite the fire approximately 10 to 15 minutes after the device is in place In one draft of the manuscript it describes a match attached to a cigarette and
01:42:05
placed inside a paper bag, similar to the actual facts of the binder paper, match of the binder
01:42:12
paper. Both start fires in retail stores located in Los Angeles during business hours. Both place
01:42:17
the incendiary device in combustible materials located in the store. Both start fires in the
01:42:23
drapery section at a Los Angeles fabric store. Both start fires in display of styrofoam products.
01:42:28
Oh my god. Both start fires in hardware stores. Both start fires in several retail stores in close proximity
01:42:35
to one another within a short span of time on the same day. Both start fires in the same locations
01:42:41
while both the character and the actual arsonist were traveling to or from arson investigators conferences
01:42:46
in Fresno. Oh my god. He's admitting to the whole thing in a stupid script. It's basically a script
01:42:53
called My Diary of Being a Serial Arsonist. And does he say, it's a coincidence?
01:42:58
Yeah, it's such a strange coincidence. But what's not in that document, but what is in the script,
01:43:06
is that his lead character sets these fires and then writes about watching them with an erection
01:43:12
or while masturbating. And one scene in the manuscript, he can't get an erection until he starts a fire.
01:43:19
what if that were your what if that were true what if that were your thing what if that was
01:43:25
your thing what if you couldn't how do you figure that out and then how do you make it work and then
01:43:31
like don't well you know what it is just don't get an erection anymore it's fine i don't know
01:43:36
i don't know if that's i don't know if that's fine that's not an option for some people i who
01:43:41
would it be for i mean look listen listen at one point in the book he describes his lead character
01:43:49
raping and killing a woman and then burning her in her car. Authorities found a similar case where
01:43:56
the body of a woman was found raped and murdered in a burnt out car, but they couldn't find any
01:44:01
hard evidence to connect John Orr with that crime. Also in the book, the main character talked about
01:44:06
setting several fires at once so that the fireman would be overwhelmed, allowing him to watch one of
01:44:12
the fires burn freely until it was totally out of control. Oh my God. And that same character
01:44:18
also talked about one of the victims of one of the fires he sets being a two-year-old boy named
01:44:26
Matthew. Are you serious? So the exact victim of one of his fires, he's writing about in this
01:44:34
script. And that was the detail that cinched it for the investigators. They were just like,
01:44:39
so he's arrested and he's charged with numerous counts of arson and four counts of first degree
01:44:44
murder. In 1998, he's sentenced to life in prison plus 20 years without the possibility of parole.
01:44:49
He has never admitted that he's guilty, which is one of the many signs that he's a psychopath.
01:44:59
He's motivated by his ego, by delusions of grandeur. He believes that he's smarter and
01:45:04
better than everyone. No remorse, no guilt. And he's a great actor and highly manipulative.
01:45:11
There's actually, I found a couple clips of him talking. He got interviewed. It's before he got caught being interviewed and talking on the news about one of the fires.
01:45:24
And he's, you would, he's one of these kind of people, the way he speaks, even though he's not like that exciting of a person.
01:45:32
You can tell how he is like so kind of strangely alluring. He's very sharp and very clear-eyed and very, like, knows all the details.
01:45:41
He's a real expert. Yeah, really interested in what, yeah. Crazy. So, ATF agent Mike Matassa believes that between 1984 and 1991, John Orr set at least 2,000
01:45:56
fires. What? And perhaps up to 10,000 fires. What the fuck? Some arson investigators and an FBI criminal profiler have deemed Orr to be one of the worst American serial arsonists of the 20th century.
01:46:10
Before his arrest, the average number of brush fires in the hills above Glendale and Burbank were 67 a year.
01:46:16
After his arrest, that number dropped to three. Oh, my fucking God. So he was doing all of them for almost a decade.
01:46:26
It was all him, essentially. Oh, my God. oh, and then I just started watching a video about what it actually means to be a psychopath,
01:46:37
because we've had so many discussions about psychopaths, sociopaths, all the different
01:46:41
languages that we use. And it's basically the psychopath. What I think is super interesting
01:46:47
is that they have absolutely no empathy or connection to other people's feelings.
01:46:53
And it's that thing where like, to imagine, like you could kind of break down of like,
01:46:57
so you're an arsonist you're you have like almost like a sexual fetish for fire so you're forced to
01:47:03
to set these fires that's one thing where you're just like you can't control it to set a fire
01:47:09
during business hours of a large business and then four people get trapped inside that fire and die
01:47:16
and you still write about them like it's fiction like it's just this fun idea you have
01:47:21
like he has absolutely no connection to other human beings does that mean that does that mean
01:47:27
that they don't have feelings like us either? Like if you can't be empathetic towards other
01:47:33
people's feelings, does it mean you don't know what it's like to be sad? You don't know what
01:47:37
it's like to be happy or angry or? No, I think they have their own feelings. They just don't
01:47:42
understand. So this is kind of interesting and this could be completely off, but, but,
01:47:47
but this is my own personal theory because my therapist is really into like all that brain
01:47:52
research and how like a lot of times we blame ourselves for just what our natural brain does So like people are like I super anxious but actually like our brain our amygdala
01:48:05
like is set to, it trains us to look for, for predators constantly. So if you're not thinking about the past, if you're not like going over what you did
01:48:17
the last time you tried to go hunt a bison or whatever, then if you're in the present,
01:48:22
you're just scanning for danger. And that's our natural brain set. It's either, excuse me, reviewing the past for mistakes or scanning the present or possible
01:48:32
future for danger. These days, people think that means I'm crazy when it's like, no, no, that's the natural
01:48:37
set point of your brain. I'm anxious. It's like, no, you're just constantly scanning for things that could go wrong.
01:48:42
Right. And maybe you're overdoing it because of whatever reasons, but it's normal to be like that.
01:48:48
But I think part of the reason people think they're overdoing it because it's because
01:48:52
people think they're supposed to be at some zen neutral nothing where it's like no an active mind
01:48:58
is a natural thing yeah especially a mind that's like be careful be careful be careful that makes
01:49:02
me feel better yeah it's like why we're alive it's why we our ancestors lived and other people died
01:49:09
because that part of their brain didn't work as well yeah motherfuckers it's not as bad as you
01:49:13
think but so this other part there's lots of theory that she gave she told me that made me
01:49:17
very happy. But the other one was, we have this thing called mirror neurons that they're just
01:49:21
kind of now like doing research on and understanding. But it's the thing of like, when you watch one of
01:49:28
those videos of a soldier coming home and his dog losing his shit, right? And it just makes you cry.
01:49:34
That's because that's not happening to you, but your brain doesn't know that because your brain
01:49:39
is watching another human being, which looks like you and seems like you go through an experience
01:49:45
that the mirror neuron goes, this is what it feels like when this happens. And then like,
01:49:50
right now I'm getting tingles thinking about those videos because my brain goes, it's you.
01:49:56
When you are taking in that information, the way your brain processes it. Is that you're having these emotions that that person's having.
01:50:02
Exactly. Because you're empathetic and you can understand. Exactly. And that's how we stay connected. And that's how we make sure we have food every night
01:50:09
and shelter is because you need human connection to survive. Like it's tribe mentality. It's, it's survival instincts, right? Psychopaths haven't, well, I shouldn't say
01:50:20
that because now I'm making shit up, but one would say that they don't, they're not in that ability.
01:50:25
We know, I was about to say they don't have mirror neurons. I know nothing about, um,
01:50:29
that brain chemistry or anything, but they, we know for a fact they don't have empathy.
01:50:33
So when they watch a soldier come home and its dog loses its shit and all those things,
01:50:37
they just are watching a video of two things touching each other. So it's not like they,
01:50:43
they get mad. He clearly has sexual feelings. He has, he wants to be famous. He wrote this thing.
01:50:48
He wants different things. He just has no connectors to the people around him and no,
01:50:54
he doesn't understand if something happens to that person, it feels the same to them as it does
01:50:59
when something bad happens to him. Wow. That's heavy. I over explained that, but, um,
01:51:07
I really felt like an expert and sometimes you just want to keep on feeling like an expert.
01:51:10
If there's any corrections, Cornish, for that, save it. Just let me be right this one time.
01:51:16
Have some empathy. If you have empathy, you wouldn't correct Cornish that. Come on.
01:51:21
I'm going to go ahead and say you were right. Thank you. I mean, I think I was at least in the ballpark this time.
01:51:27
Well, also because I watch a really good, there's some real good videos. This can be my good thing of the week.
01:51:34
Okay. It's, I found these videos that are just, you know those ones they explain something with an illustration?
01:51:40
So there's someone talking, but it's being drawn. Yes. I get it now. You put an arrow to a thing.
01:51:46
Yes. And suddenly it's clear. Oh, you just have a little Ikea guy that's actually acting it out.
01:51:51
Now I get it. He has a happy face and a sad face. Yeah. And that's how you know how he's feeling.
01:51:55
But no hair for some reason. Too much. So I found a series of videos by the people who make them.
01:52:05
It's called Psych 2, the number 2 Go. And so it's like, what does it mean to be a psychopath or how to know if you're dating a sociopath or how to deal with your anxiety, whatever.
01:52:18
But then I'm like, what is Psych2Go? I've never heard of you before. So I start looking into that.
01:52:22
It brings me to a website that says psychology by millennials for millennials. And then it kicked you out.
01:52:30
It's like, enter your birth date. Get out of here, grandma. This is for us. You had to enter your birthday.
01:52:35
And it's like, eh, eh, sorry. Get out. sorry it made me laugh so hard that it's like finally psychology for me
01:52:44
psychology i can relate to yeah but actually it seems like a good website yeah i was just trying
01:52:52
to make sure it wasn't like secretly scientology or something sure and then i was like and anyways
01:52:57
kill kill kill karen and then send us the money yeah no it wasn't that that's sweet uh my positive
01:53:06
thing is that Vince and I are going away for my birthday for a couple days and I just can't wait
01:53:10
to get out of the city and go antiquing. I'm going to eat so much food. Maybe there'll be
01:53:19
a massage in there. Oh, hey. I just need to get out of town for a day or two. That's going to be so
01:53:24
nice. And you're going to be by the ocean, right? Yeah. So you get to have some, some of them
01:53:28
negative ions, which is real good for you. Does that happen? That's the ocean air. That's why
01:53:34
Ocean air always feels good and like makes you feel refreshed. It's them negative ions that we don't get in this polluted city.
01:53:42
I'm into it. All right, we're back. Karen, do you have any updates? I do. So let's see.
01:53:50
Well, John Orr continues to serve his life sentence. He still maintains his innocence He claims that he had an ironclad alibi but his lawyers wouldn listen and that he pleaded guilty to save his wife who is now his fourth ex from bankruptcy
01:54:06
So kind of interesting. Apple TV has a 2025 series called Smoke that was inspired by this story.
01:54:14
And Taron Egerton, who's the guy that played Elton John, is the star. And then Journey Smollett, who you might remember from Lovecraft Country.
01:54:24
So good in that. So she's the detective. And then Taryn Edgerton is the fire investigator with the dark past.
01:54:31
And they hunt down some serial arsonists. And also there's a podcast called Firebug from 2021.
01:54:38
And it chronicles the investigation into these fires through interviews and excerpts from that manuscript that Orr wrote.
01:54:47
So that story is just so crazy. I will always remember learning about it and then just being like, this cannot be real. It's beyond.
01:54:56
The audacity of evil is just like beyond comprehension for people who aren't evil,
01:55:02
which is, I guess, why we do this. Right. And like sitting in, when you live in the valley and you look at that hillside all the time
01:55:10
and they were catching on fire constantly, it was just like, it became this just, well,
01:55:15
this is just how it is. And there must be a scientific reason and a natural kind of reason.
01:55:22
Instead it's the fucking fire chief, the fire chief's doing it just wild. All right,
01:55:28
let's head back in to wrap up the show. Okay. Bye. No, wait, that was fun. Should we wrap it up?
01:55:36
I feel like we didn't wrap it up correctly. That was good. I liked your fire story.
01:55:41
Thank you. Yeah. I want to watch that. The whole time in my mind, I was like picturing how the forensic files would look.
01:55:48
Yeah. So as you were telling us, I was like, oh yeah. And then this thing would happen.
01:55:52
Like how bad the like reenactments probably were from the nineties. And yes, there was a lot of,
01:55:57
um, they had a lot of home video. Oh, okay. The dawn of like real. Cause it was his home video.
01:56:03
Yes. He would go to the fucking fires and set up his video camera or his, he had,
01:56:09
um, a lot of like hard copy photos. Fuck. Yeah. It's the craziest, like, I think that might be my favorite is the, the person that's been
01:56:21
wearing a mask and then doing horrifying things and no one knows. And like, it's almost like people don't want to know.
01:56:28
I wish someone would talk to him. It's crazy that he's still alive and like has all this information, but won't even like
01:56:33
admit to it so we can like figure him out. Oh no. In his mind, he's, he, it's another one of those things.
01:56:41
He's being victimized. he is completely innocent he has never admitted to anything ah so i wonder what that is all about
01:56:48
too he's a psychopath they don't admit they're they're even if he does he know he did it yeah
01:56:54
yeah absolutely how could he think he's tricking anyone he's in jail for the rest of his life
01:56:58
i guess well he did trick people for so long and it's the that's part of the mental illness
01:57:05
is like they're they think they're the kind of the king of the world yeah well shit i mean fuck
01:57:13
don't do it look stay away if you do anything if you don't do anything please let it be light
01:57:20
everything on fire yeah right yes you've heard me say that a million times it's not your lower back tattoo it wraps all the way around my haunch your hat your cackles
01:57:33
I want to get my cockles up. Okay, we're back. So this episode was originally named Stephen It Out, which we were basically using Stephen's name as a substitute for editing.
01:57:53
And so if we were going to name it today, what would we call it, Georgia? We'd call it Bitch Color Wheel.
01:58:01
Hell yeah. The different ways to be a bitch, a beautiful rainbow. Oh, and then, of course, my birthday wish for myself, learn to levitate.
01:58:11
Yes. Live it, love it, learn to levitate was one of my, the funniest things, not only funniest
01:58:17
things you've ever said made me laugh so hard, but then somebody made that unbelievable graphic
01:58:22
for it that had like a tree line, a beautiful kind of like nature. That was one of the first things I think I saw it on Facebook where I'm like, oh, my
01:58:31
God, they're paying attention to what we're saying and then making things because of it.
01:58:35
Honestly, if you ask me what the dumbest thing I've said on this podcast is, it's that.
01:58:38
I don't understand why you liked it, why anyone liked it. It's you being a fast brain, which is always fun.
01:58:47
But then it was like you were just yes-anding something dumb and then being like,
01:58:52
this is what I'm all about or whatever. And it was hilarious. It was just hilarious.
01:58:56
Just try it. Try saying the stupid thing, everyone. You never know and it'll end up on a t-shirt.
01:59:01
And who fucking cares anyway? All right. Well, thanks for listening. We're going to let Mimi silently say goodbye way back in 2017.
01:59:13
Thanks for listening, you guys. You guys are the fucking sweetest. You're number one.
01:59:19
Number one. Stephen, thank you. Stephen, thank you for all your accents this week.
01:59:24
I'm pretty good. Thanks. Oh, there was a moment of thinking. Mimi thank you for your input this week
01:59:31
come on now Mimi Mimi's like no I'm not that one no comment and I think while I did that I broke this microphone
01:59:41
so that was great you yanked it right down I didn't mean to well thanks for listening you guys
01:59:48
yeah stay sexy and don't get murdered Elvis want a cookie Mimi want a cookie that was Elvis
01:59:57
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