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00:02:24
Hello. Hello. And welcome. To Rewind with Karen and Georgia. Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows for you with all new commentary, updates, and insights.
00:02:34
And you're welcome to listen. Today, we're recapping episode 73, which we named Chill Satanist.
00:02:40
Sure. It came out on June 15th, 2017. All right, let's listen to the intro of episode 73.
00:02:50
Hi, welcome to My Favorite Murder. That's Karen Kilgariff. And that's Georgia Hartstead.
00:02:54
And we are here. and we are phony. This is how we do the podcast from now on. I hope you like it.
00:03:02
We were told by podcast consultants that we should act like this at the beginning of the podcast.
00:03:06
If you're new to this podcast, you can, you probably hate us already. You can go to hell.
00:03:10
You can fuck right off. That would be awesome. That would be awesome. That would be a curse anymore.
00:03:13
I forgot. Oh, that's right. You can F right off. You can F right in the A. You can go to H-E double hockey sticks.
00:03:20
And also email us. Because that's, you're supposed to get that. the social media aspect going.
00:03:27
We're at Twitter and we're at... And we're at... We're both on Bumble, even though George is married.
00:03:34
What's another one that's good? I actually... Wait, you might have to cut this out,
00:03:39
Stephen, because I'll say her name to you, but I don't know. Leave it. No, it's Lizzie and I. We're talking about
00:03:47
Bumble. We were just talking about dating in general. What a nightmare it is in LA and all
00:03:51
that stuff. And in the conversation of her trying to get me to join a dating app.
00:03:57
I convinced her to rejoin Tinder. What? It was the most hilarious turn. It was like she was trying to convince me.
00:04:06
And as she was convincing me, I'm like, well, then why don't you do it? And then she's like, I don't know.
00:04:09
I just, I don't know. You know what? You're right. I should sign up again. It was hilarious.
00:04:14
You're good. You're just like, I'm going to turn this motherfucker. That's right.
00:04:17
Are you going to sign up for any of them? No. You're going to meet someone at a fucking gas station pumping gas.
00:04:21
They're going to be like, hey. That's why I keep hanging out at gas stations. You gotta get a nice car.
00:04:26
The problem is that my arms are always crossed when I'm getting gas, so I put out negative.
00:04:30
You're more interesting. You don't want superficial shit. Thank you. None of us do.
00:04:37
Also, I just don't, I wouldn't know how to pick people based on their picture, because I don't trust that.
00:04:42
Oh, yeah. I'm good at, I'll take friends' phones and be like, yes, yes. Or like read their thing.
00:04:51
I don't know. Because it doesn't matter to me. Yeah, there's no fucking stakes in my fucking game.
00:04:55
I don't give a shit. I was actually doing it for Lizzie for a little while, but it's that thing where then you start seeing what other people's tastes are,
00:05:02
which is really funny where I'm like, oh, I would have said yes to that. Lizzie's like, oh, no.
00:05:06
Yeah. This is a murder podcast, by the way. This is called Karen's Diary. That's how we start.
00:05:13
This is called, I don't know. This is called, did you hear this interesting true crime based piece of news,
00:05:22
which lots of people tweeted to me on Twitter. There's a woman named Agnes Gund,
00:05:28
who is basically a crazy rich philanthropist. She sold a Lichtenstein worth $165 million.
00:05:37
And donated all of the money to criminal justice reform, specifically with the eye to reduce mass incarceration in this country.
00:05:46
Oh my God. And a lot of people sent it to us on Twitter, saying there are some good
00:05:54
billionaires out there and also like some finally some positive news That great Which I thought was very cool i just found a friend of mine uh a friend like someone she knows is going a dad he
00:06:07
like sober but years and years ago he well he's going to prison for eight years for having some
00:06:14
pot on him oh now in florida though oh yeah shit which is just like so heartbreaking he's his whole
00:06:22
family is not going to have his income. His kids are going to grow up without him. Whatever he could
00:06:27
do to be a productive member of society is fucked. Like it just doesn't make any fucking sense to me.
00:06:32
It's so crazy. That's some old leftover. Those laws are now seeming like blue laws. They're just
00:06:39
so old. What's a blue law? Blue laws are like those laws that were in, I don't know if they
00:06:43
were specifically New England, but it was like, it's like, you can't, um, you can't drink on a
00:06:50
Sunday in this county. Right. All that old shit that's like they're just still on the books because no one took them
00:06:56
off. You can't spit because of the 1919 Spanish flu. Right. People would walk in it and track it into their house.
00:07:01
Exactly right. But I mean, it should still be illegal. Yeah. That would be nice.
00:07:06
Yeah. Hey. Okay. So. Okay. We were going to talk about Mommy Dundere's finally because we've been promising it.
00:07:14
Yeah. Wait. Do you have any other short pieces of business before we get into that discussion?
00:07:18
Business. Business. Business. Oh, the video of Kayla Brown when she was discovered on Todd Kolup's, you know, farm or whatever.
00:07:28
Remember when a couple of months ago there was that they found this woman chained up in a storage container, right?
00:07:36
Yeah. Someone was like, they have video of them opening it and getting to her. And I was like, I can't watch this because I pictured her like screen.
00:07:46
I pictured the end of Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Yeah. Where she's screaming and insane.
00:07:53
Yeah. And it was nothing like that. And it was almost worse. I went to watch it.
00:08:00
I was going to watch it with the sound off. Yeah. Because I knew that part would be bad.
00:08:04
And the first shot is she's fully dressed. She's got a chain around her neck, right?
00:08:09
Yeah. There's a collar around her neck and then a chain. She's like laying on a mattress.
00:08:14
Shitty mattress. but it looked so weird she looked like she was kind of frozen like she was so scared and how
00:08:21
long she'd been in there four months uh i i'm not sure and had seen before she went in her boyfriend
00:08:28
shot shot and killed to death yeah um and had probably been attacked repeatedly yes uh and the
00:08:35
second it started i was like no i'm not watching this i just what for like i'm glad she's rescued
00:08:40
that's great. I want her to get better. I want her to be strong, all positive vibes. I don't need to
00:08:46
watch that moment of horror. I felt bad, but I, but I did watch, I felt bad watching it, but I
00:08:52
watched it. I think what was so interesting to me is how calm she was. And it kind of hit home of
00:08:57
that thing of everyone always saying, you don't know what you're going to be like in, um, uh,
00:09:03
what is it? Like a crisis. So they're like, whenever someone gets killed and they're like,
00:09:08
he acted like so calm and it's like, you don't ever know what it's going to be like for someone.
00:09:13
And this was like the perfect or like a traumatic event. This is the perfect example of that to me.
00:09:18
And she was like, immediately like, I've been locked up in here by Todd Kohlhepp for this many
00:09:23
months. He shot and killed my boyfriend. Like she was just like, here's the information in case
00:09:27
I can't give it to you later. Yes. It was, it was, yeah, it was amazing. I also think I read in an article that the cops said to her, uh, like something like,
00:09:39
where's your buddy? Or do you know where your buddy is? Which is her boyfriend who was murdered, which I just hated that.
00:09:46
I don't know why. And maybe the phrasing sounded differently and I don't, I'm just judging the written
00:09:51
word, but I just hated that. It's like, she's not a child. It's not his, her buddy.
00:09:56
It's not a buddy system. Yeah. Over here. But it's probably just him trying to be like, yeah, I'm your friend.
00:10:02
Distancing. Everything's okay. Yeah, like low key. I like to be judgy. Let's see.
00:10:08
Before we get into that, I wanted to plug the Animating Podcasts Twitter, which I think
00:10:15
is a new Twitter because I don't have a lot of followers yet. Yes. That they, I just, they go to Animating Podcasts on Twitter.
00:10:25
There's one of our podcasts, short little clip that just brought me so much joy and happiness.
00:10:31
It's so hilarious. It's so hilarious. It's amazingly done for us, especially as fast as we talk and as like talking over,
00:10:40
like kind of overlapped. Yeah. Where that could not have been easy. Even like they had my, I went, mm, in it.
00:10:47
I just made a noise and it was this perfect, it's just this hilarious cartoon. Steven's in it.
00:10:52
Narwhals are in it. Spoiler alert. It's just like they took a clip from our podcast of us speaking and made it animated.
00:10:59
It was very exciting. It was a real honor, but it was also just kind of cool. So talented.
00:11:06
And also, I liked that it started me talking to you and pointing at you, which is so me.
00:11:12
How did they know? I don't know. And it looked just like us. It did. And Steven.
00:11:17
Oh, my God. When it panned over to Steven, I laughed out loud. It was such a great job.
00:11:21
Some great job animating podcasts. They do it for other podcasts. Go onto their feed.
00:11:26
Fucking best. It's very cool. And thank you guys for picking us. Yes. Stephen had a kitten named after him
00:11:33
Congratulations I think I cried a little bit They found him in the backyard, right?
00:11:40
I couldn't think of a higher Yeah, I couldn't think of I don't know It's a huge compliment
00:11:45
Yeah, it just means a lot So the kitten's name is Stephen Ray Morris? The kitten's name is?
00:11:52
Kitty Ray Morris But they calling it Morris which I just think is so perfect That very cute Kitty Ray Morris It just so cute It a little tiny It a little baby What color It like a tabby Not you Elvis
00:12:05
I know. It's like a tabby, striped brown and gray. It looks like my cat growing up.
00:12:13
That's awesome. Congratulations. Yeah, congratulations. That means we don't have to pay you this month, right?
00:12:18
Yep. Because a cat guy. That's right. You've got cat payments. Going towards the cat.
00:12:22
Yeah, it's going towards the cat. Okay, mommy, dad, and dearest. Man, people have been asking and asking for us to please talk about it.
00:12:30
And today on my car ride over, I checked my Twitter and somebody was like, are you guys ever going to talk about it?
00:12:39
And in all caps, oh no, they said, have you guys. So I bet they were asking in a very polite way of like, did I miss it?
00:12:45
Have you guys talked about this yet? And just in all caps, I wrote, not yet. Let's never talk about it again.
00:12:50
Let's bring it up every time. Let's move on right now. And just never, we'll bring it up every episode.
00:12:56
It's so rude. It's time. It's finally time. Here it is. Mommy, Dead and Dearest.
00:13:01
It was good. Moving on. I finally, I finally watched it. I was the, I was the one hanging us up because I didn't watch it for so long.
00:13:08
And I just watched it like three hours ago. Really? Yeah. Nice. I caught up. It's, I loved it.
00:13:17
It's so good. It was amazing. and it's funny because I thought after watching, since I watched The Keepers
00:13:24
first, I was like, oh, that's like a Netflix series and it's this eight part thing and whatever.
00:13:32
I thought it was really well done and also I am now so fascinated with Gypsy. It's like, I don't,
00:13:42
when they were talking about the fact that she was raised by this con woman manipulator and so
00:13:46
that's all she knows. Can you imagine? So like her kind of taught, like, I already am not the hugest fan of the baby voice and that kind of like the giggly baby voice, which she was forced to.
00:13:59
Yeah. Like her mother forced her to have that personality. I'm not definitely, and you'll vouch for this, not a psychologist.
00:14:05
Okay. But. Wait, are you a psychiatrist though? Yeah. You want some pills? Yes. Adderall all around.
00:14:11
um but i heard you know from someone a long time ago that when when older adults women have that
00:14:18
baby voice it's because they experienced trauma as a kid and never got past it yeah so they sound
00:14:24
the same as they did back then right that sounds cool right yes let's say it's real well i've heard
00:14:29
the same thing okay yeah good uh yeah man the the she's being interviewed from prison yeah it's just
00:14:37
crazy. I can't imagine what her inner life is like. And I wanted to be mad at that dad
00:14:46
so bad, but like the dad and the step mom, but I, but it, you like, you're only seeing
00:14:55
it through. I feel like if the mom was still alive and she was putting in her two cents,
00:15:00
you'd be like, Oh yeah, I would have moved seven States away. Yeah. Even the little clips
00:15:05
that they had of her were frightening. Yeah. Like she is a frightening, creepy woman.
00:15:12
But like, okay, the dad, while hot, wasn't very smart. So I feel like he was just manipulated
00:15:19
and conned too, clearly. For sure. Even her parents were like, yeah, we hadn't, like they were conned.
00:15:26
Yes. Well, and also when it's that, you know that she is either, she has some personality disorder.
00:15:33
Definitely. I won't. even though all I want to do is say which one it is. I won't.
00:15:39
Well, I mean, if you have Munchausen's by proxy, which means you're willing to hurt your child to get attention.
00:15:45
You're a sociopath. Right. Bing, bing, bing, bing. Bing, bing, bing, bing, bing.
00:15:48
That's the one I know. But also, maybe even a psychopath. Yeah. Somebody tweeted and said, psychopaths can't feel anxiety.
00:16:00
I saw that. Did you see that? That was so cool. Yes, because so they never get nervous.
00:16:06
So no matter what they do or who they're lying to or what they're doing, they will never have that.
00:16:10
Like, you'll never see the twitch in their eye of like, or then like burst out into right.
00:16:15
Like, because anxiety is nervousness. Yeah. And, um, and anticipation of a situation or anticipation of something happening.
00:16:23
Yeah. So thank God I'm clearly not a fucking sociopath. What is it? Psychopath? Yes.
00:16:28
We know you're, at least we know you're not a psychopath. I'm clearly, clearly based on my pharmaceutical history.
00:16:37
Clearly not a psychopath. But I mean, yeah, the idea, because that like going through, because I kept going when they
00:16:45
would say, and then she had this surgery. It's like, how the fuck did it get to the point where she's having surgery?
00:16:49
Dude, those doctors, man, those, I mean, I don't want to, I know that they moved around
00:16:54
a lot of doctors once they got suspicious of it. And she's so manipulative. And they wanted to believe her.
00:16:58
Why would you not believe her? A sick child. But I feel like the first, I feel like always in a pediatrician's mind should be, this could possibly be.
00:17:09
It has to be there. Everyone knows what it is. But she's inducing with medicine, right?
00:17:14
So she's like, oh, she has this thing. Then she's giving her medicine that's giving her the reaction that's making her.
00:17:19
Clearly this woman is smart and knows a little bit about medicine in some ways. I mean, when they open the medicine cabinet.
00:17:25
No, the medicine closet. Closet. also the pictures around the house from around the house where there's just like brand new
00:17:33
disney slippers everywhere where it's like this thing was creepy as fuck everything's pink and
00:17:39
disney and creepy and so she's kind of a hoarder she's kind of like this like put on these slippers
00:17:45
it's just yeah it's the creepiest and then did you see there was a girl on twitter who was who
00:17:51
like tagged us and was like I just realized that I have a photo of them with them It one of the it a girl who listens She like for a ronald mcdonald house or something oh that right and she in a photo like a photo op with them yes smiling yes
00:18:07
honey you win you won that and also she thinks she has her arm around an eight-year-old and the
00:18:12
girl's fucking 18 that that part of it also because gypsy's eyes are like a little close
00:18:18
together and a little crossed yeah and her teeth like stuck straight out which i'm sure is from
00:18:22
being poisoned all her life. They said like leukemia medication. So she kind of has the
00:18:28
look about her where it's like something could be wrong. And then what mother brings her baby in and
00:18:33
is like, you know, Oh, Steven has it. What's her name? Let's give her, um, Breanne is the one who
00:18:42
sent us the picture. And it's, it's amazing. Also when you look at this mother, you look at a person
00:18:48
who used to like in the beginning when they have her in the pageant, she was like, remember she was
00:18:52
Miss Miss River Queen or something. Yeah, that was weird to me too, where it's like she clearly gave a big shit about the
00:18:59
way she looked. Yes. And it's almost like she had this other project now. And so she kind of let it go.
00:19:03
Yes. She was living vicariously through her daughter's illness. So she was, she was eliciting that exact, like she wanted pity, sympathy.
00:19:12
She wanted like an emotional connection, but she didn't believe she could have it the way
00:19:17
she looked on her own merit. the other show that i want to talk about i don't know if you've watched it but i
00:19:23
randomly watched it and you have to and everyone has especially if you're into fucking sociopaths
00:19:28
which who isn't the mate the bernie madoff documentary with fucking robert de niro's
00:19:34
bernie madoff gore it is so good oh okay i know i'm obsessed with the bernie madoff case anyways
00:19:40
and i know it's not murder and all this shit but he's a sociopath yes and so it's really interesting
00:19:44
the way they kind of show it's just such a tragic story he might even be a psychopath too yeah and
00:19:50
yeah it's so good oh and then it's um what's her beautiful face as the wife uh what's her name um
00:20:01
michelle pfeiffer oh yeah she's great oh my god it's it's really fucking good everyone okay it's
00:20:07
really fucking good cool um and that's it for me that's it for me let's get out of here
00:20:14
Bye-bye. Okay, we are back. How's that dating app ban going for you, Karen? I mean, listen, the dating app ban, which is essentially like be a workaholic your whole life and then just see who you can meet through friends.
00:20:34
At the gas station, right? It's not ideal. I'm trying to work on it, but it's not ideal.
00:20:39
Just in my own defense, LA was recently ranked second worst among large U.S. cities for dating, citing high divorce rates, low marriage likelihood, and low, quote unquote, quality of life metrics for singles.
00:20:52
This is according to Time Out Worldwide, the number one city on that list, New York City.
00:20:58
New York City, I mean, LA doesn't seem fucking cool at all. But to be fair, it's where I've met literally all my adult boyfriends.
00:21:07
So I can't complain. But New York seems fucking horrible. Horrible. I mean. Because at least you don't even have the fun kind of like, you know, the schmoozy.
00:21:19
Here in Los Angeles, people are phony, sure. Yeah. But at least they're good at being phony.
00:21:24
Yeah. Like, they'll compliment you. You won't see it coming. It'll be a good time as had by all.
00:21:28
New York, it seems like it's a bunch of finance bro types that are like yelling at women in the street or something.
00:21:34
That like want a wife and kids. They don't want like, you know, you to be interesting.
00:21:40
Also, the other thing, too, that I'm thinking about is like you can be like here in L.A.
00:21:44
You can go like, let's go for a hike date. That's like a thing which I never do.
00:21:48
But it's free in New York. You have to go for a fucking thirty six dollar cocktail every fucking time you want to get on a date.
00:21:55
Right. Like it's not cheap. There's no hiking. Or if a guy says like, let's walk around, you know.
00:22:02
Yeah. I almost said public park, Central Park. Yeah. you'd be like no creeps. Like, I mean, how do you, I don't know. What's your perfect first date?
00:22:13
Like if you have it, like you're going to meet someone you don't know, like you might like them,
00:22:16
you might not like them. It's not even like someone you love. Like how about just a walk
00:22:20
through home goods? Ooh. And then like some, yes. Right. Someone needs a spatula. It goes on for
00:22:25
what? 30 minutes. And then you're like, okay, thanks so much. And we can just like process
00:22:30
this and see if it even works. A great, you get a drink beverage, like a, you know, coffee or
00:22:35
whatever, you walk through HomeGoods and if they're able to like make fun of things the way
00:22:39
you're supposed to in HomeGoods and then pick up a thing that they need, like a spatula,
00:22:45
fucking marry that person. I think you would learn a lot about watching someone shop at HomeGoods
00:22:50
because like, are you the kind of person that skips the food aisle or you, like me, the kind
00:22:54
of person that's like, surely I don't want any of this weird colored pasta, but what if there is
00:22:59
a hazelnut candy. I've never heard of these hard candies that taste like violets. Like what's
00:23:06
happening? I've never had candy from Finland. Maybe I should give it a whirl. I mean, I don't know.
00:23:12
Things like that. Karen, that's honestly like fucking brilliant. There needs to be like,
00:23:16
have I done it? You did. Like there needs to be a home goods date night where they close to anyone,
00:23:20
but people on dates. And it's almost like you also have to, if you're going to be there,
00:23:24
you have to need something. Right. So I got to pick up 900 clip chips, whatever. Yes, exactly.
00:23:31
So I need magnets for my refrigerator. I can only get them here. What and like what if on date night
00:23:35
they turn the lights down a little bit so it's a little more flattering. Play a little Neil Sedaka.
00:23:43
I think you did it. I think I've done it. And HomeGoods, email me. Let's get this thing going.
00:23:50
HomeGoods date night. That's fucking it. Also because just as an older person, It's like all the conversations around dating are truly for the 20 and 30 year olds granted and God bless.
00:24:00
When you're older, it's like, I think there's a part of me where it's like, it's not the pressing fear that I used to have.
00:24:07
Because I really have built this life that I am really enjoying and really kind of like thrilled by.
00:24:14
Genuinely, all my dreams have come true and do come true all the time. So I don't have that big empty space type of feeling.
00:24:22
Right. There's not a rush to have a baby or to like buy a home or anything like that anymore for you.
00:24:28
Yeah. It's more like, oh, this is neat. What's happening? Who's going to be here? It's just kind of that feeling. So then going out of my way to drink coffee with a stranger and make small talk is truly my worst nightmare to begin with.
00:24:43
And psychologically, walking side by side makes you talk more and makes you more open than when you're sitting across from someone just talking. That's why you have the best conversations when you're in a car.
00:24:55
That's why Do You Need a Ride works. Truly, we get people to say anything back there.
00:25:00
Oh, my God. I'm obsessed. It's true. It's really true. It's crazy that this was just happening, too.
00:25:06
So going back to the podcast, the Todd Kohlhepp fucking case was just breaking at the time.
00:25:13
That was a breaking and very disturbing breaking. Yeah. Like how everyone found out about it was just so upsetting.
00:25:20
And yeah, and then we finally covered that. So maybe let's give an update really quick.
00:25:24
So Todd Kohlhepp is now serving seven consecutive life sentences without the possibility of parole.
00:25:30
Yes. He's also currently under investigation for possibly profiting from those crimes after prison messages surfaced showing that he was planning merchandise sales and discussing book or documentary deals.
00:25:42
What the fuck? So as a result of those messages, the South Carolina Department of Corrections moved him to its most secure housing unit, removed his tablet privileges indefinitely and is pursuing disciplinary charges.
00:25:54
Also, the inspector general's office is reviewing whether new criminal charges should be filed against him for attempts to monetize his notoriety.
00:26:01
I mean, that's an amazing leap forward that I don't think was like we've talked about that a lot.
00:26:06
You know, for all the mistakes we've made on this podcast, I feel like this is one area we've been pretty solid in, which is serial killers are not the celebrities.
00:26:14
They're not the stars. They're not who anyone should be focusing on. Certainly not the people that should be given deals or any of that kind of shit.
00:26:22
It's like if you want to hear from those people, read any of the other books that were written by people that are also psychotic or whatever.
00:26:29
Right. Or then watch the documentary where they interview the victim's families and what they went through, not the guy and what he put them through.
00:26:36
Nobody fucking wants to hear that. And it's interesting because it's like that reminds me of after watching the Tinder swindler, who I think just went to jail.
00:26:46
But there was a person like that was one of the breaking stories back when the news cycle involved things like that.
00:26:51
where there was a manager who reached out to him to get him set up for like he could so he could
00:26:58
have right like a you know bravo show the tinder swindler hosts whatever and of course everyone
00:27:05
was like no go fuck yourself like this is disgusting when you're the manager going after
00:27:10
the swindler the murderer the whatever like it's time to join the peace corps like it's time to
00:27:16
drop out of society and go help people because you've just gotten on the wrong track at that
00:27:21
point, you know? Right. You're just trying to make something out of anything that does numbers. And
00:27:26
it's like, no, it's a little harder than that. I think you have to do it. You have to do it a
00:27:31
little bit better than that. Life in general. Yeah. Yeah. Being a human being. Right. So I
00:27:36
actually did covers, if you want to hear the whole story of Todd Kohlhepp and his horrible crimes,
00:27:41
it's episode 458. The episode is called The Demands Are Incredible. And it's crazy because
00:27:47
I don't think we knew at the time how this case would unfold because he is then tied to other cases, which is just chilling.
00:27:55
Yeah, definitely. That was a great you did a great job on that one. Thank you. All right. Oh, God, this case that I covered in this one is just chilling.
00:28:03
Yeah, this is a bad one. And well, let's just get into it. It's time to listen to Georgia tell her story about the Fall River cult murders.
00:28:13
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00:30:47
should we should we talk about murder yeah let's do it okay me steven it's all you all right
00:30:54
Karen you love you love cults oh fuck yes yes or no should I lean all the way back and stick my
00:31:02
feet up in there and just listen up because this is my favorite topic get comfy girl
00:31:06
actually I found yeah night night Karen Karen leaping you found what I I there was one cult
00:31:15
that I wanted to do and then I don't know why I never did it but then I was just like what are
00:31:19
other, cause I'm not a big cult. I mean, I love Jamestown, obviously. Jonestown. Jamestown.
00:31:24
Clearly I'm a big fan. I love Jamestown. Jamestown. Jamestown. That's actually like a really nice
00:31:32
little like retreat. It's a camp for children with issues. I believe Jamestown is like the first
00:31:38
settlement in the colonies. Right. But I definitely could be wrong because, um, I can't remember high
00:31:45
school at all. So I wasn't in no way laughing at you for that part. But I do love, I love the old
00:31:52
joke of I'm a huge fan of this and then say the different thing. Always go with that. Pretend you
00:31:59
did it on purpose. I love it. Listen, when I get shit wrong, I think it's hilarious. Jonestown is,
00:32:04
I love it too, obviously because it came out of San Francisco and it's like when it, when it can
00:32:11
be, I mean, that's as a hometown. It's just so epic. Just the amount of people who actually
00:32:16
killed themselves is epic. Like I looked up Heaven's Gate, which I thought was really
00:32:20
fascinating. That's a good one. Um, it's just fucking cool. Heaven's Gate is so crazy too,
00:32:26
because it's so sinister and yet dull. That's the weirdest part about it. It's like, we
00:32:32
think we're going to go to a planet or a spaceship or whatever. Um, we like computers
00:32:38
and we want to be androgynous and then we kill ourselves the end there's no blood there's no
00:32:44
i think they killed some people heaven's gate yeah who like left the thing oh yeah yeah i'll
00:32:51
have to do it sometime i really want to do waco because i think it's way more complicated i just
00:32:55
i kind of don't want to touch it because it's i think it's pretty fucking inflammatory yeah
00:33:01
Literally. No, that was it. No, it is. You're right, because I think the story everybody got initially was like, these lunatics.
00:33:10
They lit their place on fire, and it's like, I don't think they're dead. Yeah, there was children in there.
00:33:14
Yeah. There was children in there. And you weren't letting them come out. Yeah, there was a lot to it.
00:33:19
Okay. Anyhow. This is the Fall Rivers cult murder. Ooh. Had never heard of it. Mm-mm.
00:33:28
Never heard of it. Okay. An hour outside of Boston, the town of Fall Rivers, Massachusetts.
00:33:34
Got that one right. In the 1970s, there was a crazy fucking recession. They had the gas shortage.
00:33:41
You had to wait in line. What was it? You could only get gas on certain days depending on when your license plate ended and whatever.
00:33:47
So it was like odd days, Monday, Wednesday, Friday. I mean, odd numbers, Monday, whatever.
00:33:51
I remember waiting in line with my dad at the, I believe it is now a shell on Petaluma Boulevard.
00:33:59
What was it, Gas and Go or something? It was a... Something good? I can't remember what it was, but it was like we were out in the different street waiting for it to get into the gas station.
00:34:14
I've done that at Costco before, but not... Yeah. Think of that, but everyone's broken out of a job, right?
00:34:20
Yes. Yes. Pre Costco. There's the idea of even buying wholesale was like inane. Yeah. Everyone was broke. Yeah. So 1970s Fall River Rivers is hit super fucking hard.
00:34:34
Factories closed, buildings abandoned, all that stuff. So like Main Street is empty, which just led to a crazy seedy underground of drugs and sex working to flourish.
00:34:43
Yeah. So the first victim of the Fall River murders. Steven can you look up if it's Fall River
00:34:51
or Fall Rivers there's no S it's Fall River okay so everyone calm down got this right because I've written it
00:34:59
both ways okay the first victim of the Fall River murders is Fall Rivers or Falls River
00:35:06
sorry sorry sorry you know what I'm going to say both ways Falls Rivers murders it gets sad now so let's
00:35:15
okay sorry be cool 17 year old runaway Doreen Levesque she had escaped her new Bedford foster home
00:35:24
and she got out of there and went to Fall River and turned to sex work to survive
00:35:30
17 years old and also fucking every story you hear about foster homes obviously there are good foster parents
00:35:38
out there and all blah blah blah but man oh man I have a friend who grew up in several foster homes
00:35:44
and it's just like one horrible story after the other. It's just that thing of like, well, can you imagine if working on the street and sex work
00:35:54
is the better alternative than living with your foster family Yeah Like that you can imagine what that must be like Horrible Not that there aren great foster parents out there In fact I want to be one one day but not in the 70s There wasn Okay So her body was found on October 13th 1979
00:36:12
under the bleachers at the local high school. Yeah. Her wrists have been bound with fishing
00:36:18
line and she had been stabbed in the head several times and her face had been beaten
00:36:25
so bad that she was unrecognizable. Then a month after she had been found, a man named Andy Maltius goes to the Fall River
00:36:35
police station. He wants to file a missing persons report for his girlfriend. They won't do it.
00:36:44
Fucking there's a twist. A 22 year old sex worker, that's who she is, Barbara Raposa.
00:36:51
He tells her that he's scared for her safety. And then he starts to randomly mumble something about a satanic cult.
00:36:58
And he says he has information relating to the other murder of Doreen Levesque. Whoa.
00:37:05
Yeah. So he is a very mentally unstable creep. He's a pedophile, a sex sadist and a violent rapist.
00:37:14
and when he's questioned by the police he told them that there was a satanic cult
00:37:19
operating within the Fall River area and the sex worker community so that whole community of drug addicts
00:37:25
and sex workers are fucking satanists and this is during the satanic panic remember that?
00:37:31
which is like the stupidest thing but then there were satanists it's a violent rapist reporting
00:37:41
how bad does it have to be once again And it's just crazy where it's like, I'm I'm the worst person and I'm going to go to the police because this is this bad.
00:37:50
I'm so worried about my girlfriend. And yeah. So, OK, then Karen Marsden, she's a 20 year old single mother.
00:37:59
She's a drug addict, teenage runaway or was a teenage runaway. She's also working as a sex worker.
00:38:04
She comes forward because she's afraid for her life. She tells the police that the local pimp, Carl Drew, was the ringleader of this satanic cult and that he was responsible for the murders.
00:38:15
The murder. Excuse me. She felt that she knew too much and was too inside the close knit circle of the satanic group to remain safe.
00:38:25
So she's fucking terrified. The police offer her protective custody for her cooperation, but she denied it.
00:38:32
She didn't want it. Uh oh. Who knows why? I mean, I'm sure. She doesn't trust the cops.
00:38:36
And she's a drug addict. You don't make the best fucking decisions when you're on drugs.
00:38:40
And also, if you're trying to do drugs, you don't want a cop around him protecting you.
00:38:44
Right. Because you're like, I just need to get high. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So Drew, let's talk about Carl Drew, the woman, the man that she fingered for the murder.
00:38:56
Listen. Look. Listen, you guys said it. I didn't. You guys are gross. Steven, play back that tape.
00:39:04
This is a murder podcast. Please. I know it. All right. Carl Drew, 25 years old.
00:39:10
He's from New Hampshire. He'd been raised on a small farm. And the story is that he had a childhood of hard labor and physical abuse.
00:39:19
He told a story later of his alcoholic father tying a rope around his ankles and lowering him down a well to remove a cluster of dead rats.
00:39:27
Oh, no. You come face to face with that shit? And also fucking leave him there. Why can't they be in the well?
00:39:35
What's it called when things? They'll degrade. Yeah. Totally. Leave them in the well.
00:39:39
How about you pour some goddamn battery acid down that well? And your kid? Ugh. Well, in addition, he lived on the farm, so he was taught to butcher livestock, and he got the job of cleaning the farm's slaughter pit.
00:39:52
Again, send that kid in there. Dang. He had to wade through rotting carcasses in order to separate the hides and hooves for rendering, which you know all of that just smelled so horrific.
00:40:03
horrific. I mean, and you would smell like that for days. Well, this is, this is like,
00:40:09
if I were Gwyneth Paltrow and I was like, it was hard for me too. I made bone broth recently.
00:40:16
Steven, cut that out. Well, you have to, you have to boil the marrow bones for like 48 hours
00:40:23
and it just gets this smell that is so horrific and not good. Yeah. Did that smell like
00:40:32
linger. Oh yeah. Yeah. So then when I ever, like, I can't drink it now because it's so disgusting.
00:40:38
You have to have somebody else make your bone broth. Yeah. You buy it. I know it's expensive.
00:40:42
I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. But you guys look it up. You have gut issues? Bone broth. It's really good
00:40:47
for you. Anyways. Where was I? At 14, he runs away to Fall River. He eventually becomes a pimp
00:40:56
And he's a Satanist and he uses Satanism to terrify the sex workers who worked for him.
00:41:03
Yeah. He had a felony record, convictions for assault, weapons, possession and armed robbery.
00:41:09
So he's a real great dude. He claims later to be the son of Satan. Okay. Which like, who knows?
00:41:15
Did he, did Satan have kids? Oh, I wonder. Yeah, I do too. Like, did they change, did Satan change diapers?
00:41:22
I mean. I bet he wasn't a good. What kind of father was he? Like the wife woke up and was like, it's your turn.
00:41:28
It's your turn. And he's like, no. Yeah. And they're like, you're fucking Satan.
00:41:32
Yeah. I have to do it again. Yeah. The son of Satan. Yeah. Okay. Like, come on. Yeah.
00:41:41
I mean, most people claim to be Satan. Right. Isn't that more of the thing? Yeah.
00:41:45
Okay. It doesn't matter. Yeah. He makes the sex workers participate in his animal sacrifices and tells them that the same
00:41:53
thing would happen to them if they disobeyed him. so he wasn one of those nice pimps that everyone talks or nice satanists or nice satanists there are nice ones i mean they do seem satanists that fine i mean whatever yeah they chilled out yeah
00:42:08
uh it seems just like a tool to control people it's just using fear like this is a thing you're
00:42:15
scared of yeah i'll use this symbol yeah and it'll control your behavior and i'm on all the math
00:42:21
All the fucking Fall River myth, which is probably not. No, that's the good stuff.
00:42:27
Yeah, no offense to them. So the Fall River cult, they had maybe up to 10 members.
00:42:35
They're all associated with the Fall River sex trade. So between 1979 and 1980, they held a bunch of ceremonies deep in the local woods, which sounds creepy.
00:42:45
And during the seances, this guy, Carl Drew, would speak in a different voice and in different languages.
00:42:53
And everyone who had been there was like, no, it wasn't gibberish. He was speaking another language.
00:42:57
Wow. Which is like, all right. Did he know Spanish? Yeah. Had he gotten the Rosetta Stone CD?
00:43:05
I know pig Latin. That doesn't mean I'm speaking in another language. And you and I speak in a different voice whenever we do fucking ads.
00:43:12
That's right. You can do lots of voices. I'm not, I'm color me not impressed with this.
00:43:17
Carl. Carl. Carl, you fucking nerd. Carl. He's still alive. So let's not. Whoops.
00:43:23
Okay. Steven, edit that out. For sure. Don't. Edit this whole story out. I forgot to mention he's still alive.
00:43:29
Okay. First, the rituals, rituals involved sex and drugs, but then things took a turn when he
00:43:35
was like human sacrifice time. Oh no. No. Okay. The second victim is Barbara Raposa, who's 22.
00:43:43
another known sex worker. Her body's discovered by, oh, here's horrible. A man is out walking
00:43:50
his dog in the forest. It's a beagle. Picture it. Yes. His dog starts sniffing around and like starts
00:43:58
to kind of chomp on something and he thinks it's just an animal because she was so unrecognizable
00:44:04
that he didn't realize it was a human. Was the full body or just a part? I think it was a full body. Oh, man.
00:44:11
But in the bushes, you know what I mean? Yes. So that poor dog and that poor man, do you think that he ever let the dog lick him on the face again?
00:44:19
I think he probably put that dog down. Yeah. Once they get a taste. It's so dark.
00:44:26
I know. But it really is not to be hacky and say the same thing we say all the time.
00:44:31
But it's like, I understand there's a benefit of going into the forest if you have a large group and you're there to really hike it up and be a team or whatever.
00:44:41
walking alone with your dog in the forest. I feel like there's only a couple things
00:44:45
that can happen to you and they're bad. Like your dog doesn't care if it's on the
00:44:49
forest or a sidewalk of a fucking suburb. Right. Why? It's like not that your dog
00:44:53
is more stoked when he goes into the why are you? And then at the same time I have to be totally honest and say
00:44:59
I am jealous of that guy. Because he gets to do that? Because just that moment must have been
00:45:05
horrifying and like just it's just a seminal moment. It's a watershed moment. I wonder, I wonder, I don't ever want to know.
00:45:14
I wonder, here's what I wonder are seminal and watershed synonyms or did I just say two
00:45:20
different things? Seminal is like, yeah, no, but they're, yeah, they're like explaining a thing.
00:45:27
A defining moment. Right. You just said it in better words than defining. Sometimes I just pick a word out and say it, whatever my brain offers.
00:45:34
You sounded like a thesaurus. Jesus. I can't say thesaurus. Thank you. You're welcome.
00:45:42
Okay. She had been, so Barbara Raposa, she's been badly, okay. She's got her hands bound.
00:45:50
She's face down. She's on a flat stone that resembles an altar. She had been so badly beaten again that her skull was crushed.
00:45:58
There were stab wounds to her head again. And yeah. So then on February 1980, the cult's third victim was killed.
00:46:08
this is 22 year old who you may remember her name karen marston oh no woman who had gone in because
00:46:15
she was afraid so oh no i'm sorry i'd immediately assumed it was the missing woman but this is the
00:46:22
one who fucking showed up herself yeah the one who went in she's a 20 year old single mother uh
00:46:28
drug addict and she feared for her life she's the one who came in and said no thank you to
00:46:33
victim's protection. So she is the one who comes forward. So she had been present, it turns out,
00:46:44
at that first murder of Doreen Levesque. So she had been there. So that's why she was afraid.
00:46:51
Yeah. And it terrified her so much that that's why she went to the police. And Carl,
00:46:58
what's his last name? Drew, found out about it. Yeah. So her head was beaten up with a rock.
00:47:07
Then, according to the story, Drew then broke her neck with his bare hands. And according to someone else who had been there, it was a cult devotee.
00:47:17
Devotee? Devotee. Devotee, I believe. She was devoted. And sex worker. She's 17-year-old Robin Murphy.
00:47:26
And she was there. And according to her, Drew handed her a knife and ordered her to slit Karen's throat.
00:47:34
Whoa. So then he cut an X into Karen's chest. Do you want me to say her last name instead of Karen?
00:47:43
No, it's fine. Okay. And he used the blood to put an X on this Robin Murphy's forehead.
00:47:53
Then they played around with this head. Ugh. Drugs, drugs, drugs. That's all I can think.
00:48:00
Can you imagine not even just the detachment of being able to kill someone, but then to have a human head in front of you and not,
00:48:08
like, I feel like I would pass the fuck out seeing that. Of course you would. You would be in total shock.
00:48:14
I mean, you would be, it's horrifying. Well, clearly, like, if I see someone get hurt,
00:48:20
I am empathetic because I understand what getting hurt is, and I see it and I can identify with it.
00:48:26
so like you're really underlining this point that you're not a sociopath so i'm a really good
00:48:31
yawn right now yawn i'll fucking yawn too see in case you're a new listener that's the test of a
00:48:40
sociopath if you yawn and the person doesn't yawn too then they don't have empathy for you
00:48:45
it's just this automatic response no i mean i but i understand what you're saying it's just
00:48:49
so gross even that we're talking about it much less to witness it be a part of it
00:48:56
take part in it. It doesn't, it just defies logic. And the fact that not only is there one
00:49:02
person who does it, but you'll know someone else who's cool with it too. Like the fact that there
00:49:05
can be two people, cause I feel like that'd be one in a million people. Yeah. But I guess they
00:49:10
all live in Fall River. Do, do, do. Okay. Uh, so only. Oh wait, Telegram just arrived. It's
00:49:17
everyone who lives in Fall River. They're super pissed at us. They're suing us for defamation.
00:49:22
They said Twitter's not fast enough. We needed to let you know how livid we are.
00:49:26
It's actually a, it's a clown and it's a singing telegram. But he's got a bloody X on his head.
00:49:31
Yeah. Don't worry about it. So only her skull was ever found. And the reason they found it is because she had had X-rays of her head, which I'm like,
00:49:41
she had, they said she had sinus issues. Oh, so there was something to compare it.
00:49:44
Like they knew who it was. Yeah. Got it. Which is crazy. So finally a break comes in the case.
00:49:50
They, the police had wiretapped the phone hoping that they would find Carl Drew speaking about the murders, but it's not him.
00:49:59
It's the 17 year old girlfriend, Robin Murphy. And she is a sex worker and aspiring pimp.
00:50:05
So she's talking and it turns out that she was saying that 25 year old Drew was not the ringleader, but that she was, that 17 year old Robin Murphy is.
00:50:19
Huh. Robin Murphy contacts police and she offers to testify against Andy Maltias, remember the guy who went in because he was worried about his girlfriend.
00:50:27
Yeah. As a witness to the murder of his girlfriend. So he killed his girlfriend and then went looking for her.
00:50:35
It's her story. Oh, like so it was a setup, basically. He was trying to make himself look innocent.
00:50:41
Maybe unless Robin's lying. Okay. She also claimed to be present for the Doreen Levesque murder, and she agreed to turn state's evidence in that case.
00:50:52
She was like, I'll tell you everything. In exchange, she gets a deal where she's placed in protective custody and she gets immunity in both murders.
00:51:01
They didn't do that. Even though she was there for them. And, yeah. And they don't know if she was involved.
00:51:09
Yeah. I mean, that seems like a dream. Like that's basically her going, here's what I wish I could have.
00:51:16
And they're like, granted. Yeah. So the story she gave police was that Andy Maltias killed his girlfriend, Barbara Raposa,
00:51:25
because he found out that she'd been cheating on him with another man. So he goes to trial first and based mostly on the testimony of Robin Murphy in January
00:51:35
1981, he's convicted of the first degree murder of Barbara Raposa, given a life sentence without
00:51:40
with the possibility of parole. And he is later considered to be a suspect in a few other unsolved
00:51:46
area rapes dating back to the early 70s, but no additional charges are ever brought against him.
00:51:51
He and then later he's found to be clinically insane, but they still didn't overturn the
00:51:56
verdict or give him a new trial or anything like that. But he ended up dying of cancer in 1998.
00:52:01
Wow. In prison. Wow. So then Robin is allowed to plead to the lesser charge of second degree murder in exchange for
00:52:08
her testimony against everyone. And they keep the immunity deal that she had going. And she received
00:52:16
no additional charges in connection with either of the other two murders. So she's only getting
00:52:21
charged with the last murder of Karen. So basically it was like, whoever runs forward
00:52:27
first and says, I will like snitch on everybody else is the person who gets the deal? I think so.
00:52:34
And like, I'll hear about plea deals where they're like, they agree that, you know, the
00:52:40
attorneys or whatever, I don't know. They agree to the terms of taking a plea only if the information matches up.
00:52:48
Yeah. So if they end up, they would agree to them if this thing is the case, if this thing is
00:52:52
true, which we should totally have Guy back on and ask him about. Yeah. Because that seems much more, you know, what's the word?
00:53:00
Makes much more sense than just being like, okay, anything you say. No, no, I think isn't that always the rule that the thing that you say has to then basically solve the crime and be the thing that convicts the person.
00:53:14
Right. Yeah. I'm pretty sure that, yeah, we should definitely have a guy back. Or like saying that their involvement is this, that has to be true.
00:53:23
You know what I mean? Like I'll testify, here is my involvement. But if later it turns out that that involvement isn't true, that you lied about it.
00:53:32
I don't know. What's that, Sky? No, it wouldn't be that because that's like then they would be planning for the person to lie.
00:53:39
Because they could find anything. Yeah. Yeah. No, that makes sense. OK. I mean, what a boring part of a show where we're like, we don't know anything about the law, but let's say what we feel.
00:53:49
Definitely. Let's talk about it. It me going I don think it that but not based on anything other than my just my gut I didn go to law school but I bet there a really simple explanation to this Let keep talking about it Listen I a psychiatrist I a lawyer
00:54:05
And a psychologist. I'm a psychologist. It's great. I'm a cat. I'm also a cat. Okay.
00:54:11
Okay. So this chick, Murphy, received her name. What was her name again? Robin Murphy's.
00:54:18
She received a life sentence with the possibility of parole. She spends 24 years in jail, in prison,
00:54:24
And then she's released on June 10th, 2004. But thank God she violated her parole and she goes to prison seven years later.
00:54:32
She's currently serving her time in a maximum security prison in Massachusetts. And in 84, she recants the entire story.
00:54:40
She says none of it is true. She's trying to get a new trial. It doesn't happen.
00:54:44
She's eligible for parole in March 2017, which if you look at your calendar, was like two months ago.
00:54:50
And they're reviewing it right now. Hold on. So in saying that the whole story is not true, is what she's saying that the satanic cult part's not true?
00:54:59
Or is she saying that her part in the murder isn't true? I think what she's saying is that the people she is fingering for the crime didn't actually do it.
00:55:09
Wow. She doesn't. It's not true. Got it. I don't know exactly if she gave an alternative story.
00:55:16
I couldn't find anything on that. So Carl Davis, who's a different Carl, who's involved with the murder of Karen Marsden, he doesn't ever stand trial for it.
00:55:31
And the following year, he's arrested for assaulting a woman named Sunny Sparta.
00:55:34
And according to the statement by Carl Drew, the other guy on his, wait for it, personal blog, he's still in prison.
00:55:43
He's a blogger? Yeah. It said that Carl Davis beat up this three-month pregnant woman, Sunny, stabbed her in the head with a knife, only because she had information implicating him, Carl Davis, and the woman Robin, and that Carl Drew had nothing to do with it, but she was too scared.
00:56:04
This woman, Sunny, was then too scared to testify. Jesus, that just keeps happening with these people.
00:56:10
Yeah. So there's some really convoluted, crazy shit going on. It kind of makes sense, though, that they wouldn't be involving this truly satanic, scariest person.
00:56:22
Well, if he's not in prison. Yeah. Right. It's almost like that usually happens where they manipulate everybody into doing what they want the whole time.
00:56:31
And then everyone else takes the fall. Well, they're proving that it's proven a couple of times that they kill people who snitch.
00:56:38
Yes. And if Carl Drew is the killer, then they could talk. But because he's locked up.
00:56:45
But if the dude who actually did it isn't locked up, I don't know. Listen, that really seemed like it was going somewhere.
00:56:52
It was. You get it. Like, I don't even need to finish it. You know what I mean? Like, it's just I'm just talking.
00:56:58
So, OK, so for that stabbing, he served seven years and he is now free. This guy, Carl Davis.
00:57:06
Fuck. OK, getting to the end. There's a bunch of bad Carl's in that area. Bad Carl.
00:57:11
So many bad Carl's. All right. So the case of the first chick, Doreen Levesque, never goes to trial because the district attorney is like, it would cost too much and it would be futile because he already has, Carl Drew already has a life sentence.
00:57:28
So what's the point? It's called justice. I forgot the word. Um, all the charges against.
00:57:38
Okay. Anyways. Okay. So people still think that the actual ringleader and the murder isn't Carl Drew, but is Robin.
00:57:47
Um, the 17 year olds want to be pimp girl. Well, according to, according to this blog that he writes, which I read it and it's actually, it's pretty, it's good.
00:57:57
It's like he's, he is pissed off about his trial. He goes down the breakthrough of what happened and all this prosecutor intimidation to the witnesses to testify against him.
00:58:11
And he says that her IQ was 138. She was incredibly smart and manipulative. And the attorneys don't want to admit that they got fooled by a 17-year-old girl, apparently.
00:58:27
Just real quick. So do you think Robin and Carl like went to the IQ place one day together and just like
00:58:33
took some tests and were like, oh my God, what'd you get? What'd you get? Oh my God, what'd you get?
00:58:37
They just both went online and did one of those like, take the IQ test and you have to
00:58:40
put your email address in. So it's so annoying to get it. You know those and like you've gone to the end of it and you don't want to give them your
00:58:45
email address, but like. But you have to to find out. You went, you took 10 minutes out of your.
00:58:49
Yeah. When you're supposed to be working. I just love that he had her IQ right there on hand.
00:58:54
Well, he said that they gave it to her when she went into prison, which I don't think they do.
00:58:59
How would he know that? Good question. Just because he has a blog, let's not give him all this credit.
00:59:05
All of a sudden, he's the greatest. I think every blogger is the greatest. You know that about me.
00:59:10
The minute I found out someone has a blog, I'm like... You relate because you're also a blogger.
00:59:14
Yeah. Oh, they must be really smart. Oh, my God. My kindred, my kind. My kind. My people.
00:59:19
So they think that Robin acted alone or at least a mastermind and that Drew is actually totally innocent.
00:59:25
But he's convicted of first degree murder and for Karen's murder and serving life in Massachusetts.
00:59:31
No possibility of parole. Then so Robin ends up recanting her statement. She claims she lied about the whole thing and that Carl Drew wasn't even involved.
00:59:44
She says he wasn't even involved. And three witnesses come forward who had testified against him that they had been pressured by the prosecution to testify and that they actually wanted to testify for him But they got too scared and didn And so sorry So then according to that story it the other bad Carl
01:00:05
It's. Or it's no, it's a mystery. It's a mystery. It's maybe Robin and this other Carl. Who knows? I don't know exactly,
01:00:13
but Robin is definitely a mastermind in it. And so who knows who else she worked with, but.
01:00:18
That's kind of an amazing movie right there. Yeah. You get it. One of those fanning girls.
01:00:22
past them. It's like Dakota. Who else is there? There's Dakota. There's L. I'm sure there's others.
01:00:30
So talented. Back at the house. That idea is just like amazing. Who done it? Who done it?
01:00:37
Was it a 17 year old running the whole show? Or was it the fucking 25 year old pimp
01:00:41
who had to wade through carcasses of animals? Also, it's just so fascinating. I would love to know how many people were like at those.
01:00:51
Was it just as straight up we took her into the woods and killed her? Or did they go ceremonial?
01:00:56
And was it this big, creepy thing? Like, it just seems like now I really want to know what the actual story is.
01:01:01
Was it like, were they taking advantage of satanic panic and like putting it all under that?
01:01:06
Yeah. Like, what the hell? I just can't imagine someone really believing in Satan.
01:01:12
Like, he never, well. Hello. He never answers back. Welcome to the Catholic Church.
01:01:16
I was going to be like, it's not like you can believe in it because he talks to you.
01:01:22
But then I'm like, oh, that's what people think about Jesus and God. I mean, in a lot of things.
01:01:27
Yeah. Unicorns. Blogs. Look, he's talking to me. Well, the happy ending of the story is that he has a blog.
01:01:37
And anyone can. And that blogs forgive you no matter what you do. Listen, go to Blogspot.
01:01:43
Start yourself a URL. What about Angel Fire? Isn't that one? Wasn't that a blog spot?
01:01:49
What is it? Steven, what's Angel Fire? Yeah, it was a blog website. It's shut down, but it's all archived, so you can still find your old websites.
01:01:58
But what is it? Just like a hosting site. It's a hosting program. Yeah, like Blog Spot.
01:02:03
That was the first. My friend had a blog where she would just rant and talk full shit constantly.
01:02:09
And it was like blah-de-blah, angelfire.net or whatever it was. And I just thought I was so new.
01:02:15
and it was the beginning of the internet that I thought Angel Fire was like where all
01:02:19
blogs took place. I was like, oh, Angel Fire, that's amazing. And then later on when that didn't exist anymore, I was like,
01:02:26
oh, there's blogs other places? Like, I just thought it was that one spot. Yeah. Well, and then Blog Spot
01:02:33
became that one spot. They got a little smarter. They went secular with it. They knew, don't
01:02:39
involve angels in this. Or a fire? Sounds satanic. Yeah, that whole concept is a bit much.
01:02:45
It's a bit beyond. Like, we don't even believe that. And we believe in blogs. They're not true.
01:02:52
What if blogs were a myth? Like, blogs were like unicorns. Like, I don't think they ever existed.
01:02:56
And someone's like, yes, they did. There's proof. I could print it up. And they're like, yeah, right.
01:03:00
Yeah. I believe in blogs. My blog is fucking gone from the internet. So nobody tried to find it, by the way.
01:03:08
Oh, you erased it? I took it down because I read it recently. And I was like, oh, my God.
01:03:14
I was like oh my god okay was it just like your diary like your daily thoughts no it was a little more just give me a taste of it okay I like I would write really lovely
01:03:27
flourishy gorgeous tales of um you know my life but then one of them was about my car getting
01:03:36
broken into oh were you there Stephen no uh yeah it was just like it was just were you there in the
01:03:41
90s with me, Steven. Yeah. Steven, you were there at my blog. I meant like I did a reading recently and read one because it was so stupid.
01:03:48
But it was like a 27 year old girl who wanted to sound fucking, what's the word?
01:03:53
Worldly. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Stop it. 27 year olds. I mean, that's, that's what 27 year olds were built for.
01:04:00
That's what the blogs were built for. Yeah. 27 year old. Yeah. That's amazing. Enough about me.
01:04:08
Let's talk about murder. God, I wish. I guess I bet you that's such a frustrating
01:04:13
part of being a part of the legal system is so much lying. Like you just are like
01:04:19
we had this whole thing set up and you promised me it was the truth. Now we're going
01:04:23
with this story. Yeah. And then four years later you're like I lied about all of it.
01:04:29
It's like we're like we went off of that entire thing. Wouldn't it be great if like people stopped lying?
01:04:37
I mean if they found like in the same way as you can get a fingerprint analyzed. You can somehow accurately get a lie detector.
01:04:45
Like a lie detector test. Those don't work though. They're 50-50. I wonder if people,
01:04:51
if they came up with, isn't there a truth serum powder? Well, they can inject you with truth
01:04:56
serum, but it doesn't necessarily mean you will tell the truth. I don't know a lot about that.
01:05:01
What's that? I don't know a lot about that. About truth serum? I think it chills you out.
01:05:07
You know what? Why am I talking right now? You tell us doctors and chemists. I'll tell you.
01:05:14
Thank you so much. I want to say it's sodium pentothal, but I think that's poison.
01:05:20
No, no, I think it is sodium pentothal. Did I get that? Steven, do you think it is?
01:05:24
Oh, my God. I'm so impressed with myself. I got that. I think you're right, too.
01:05:29
Yeah. I'm fucking smart. But I think there are people who can beat it, who can game it.
01:05:34
When they know it's going to happen. Well, when you don't care about anything. You can't do it.
01:05:40
You can trick it. Also, I think it's, I think the reason they don't use it more is because they can't just shoot up whoever they want.
01:05:47
Yeah, I think I was going to say that it must be against rights somehow. I bet it is.
01:05:53
Can everyone stop lying? I mean I start with me What is it Stephen Sodium pentothal is used to induce comas anesthesia euthanasia
01:06:12
Oh, nope. Yeah, that's the euthanasia. Oh, nope. Truth serum. There we go. Yeah.
01:06:17
It's still used in some places as a truth serum to weaken the resolve of a subject and make
01:06:22
them more compliant to pressure. It's called wine. Try it. Yeah, exactly. I was going to say.
01:06:26
That's what wine does. Six wine coolers. This is what I'm going to do about it. Watermelon wave.
01:06:33
Bartles and James strawberry. Strawberry. What's that one wine that's like strawberry flavored wine?
01:06:39
What is it called? It's like super cheap and shitty. Blue Nun? No. I don't know what that is.
01:06:45
But you'd know it. Thunderbird? Night Train? Night Train. No. Someone's yelling it at home.
01:06:53
Yeah. Anyways, someone's drinking it at home. You gotta hope. You gotta hope. Okay, we're back.
01:07:03
Are there updates for this one? There are, actually. So Carl Drew continues to serve his life sentence in prison.
01:07:10
He recently won a court case granting him access to previously protected documents that could prove his innocence.
01:07:16
And then Robin Murphy was granted parole in 2024. The Massachusetts Parole Board based its decision on several factors.
01:07:23
One is that Robin seemed to have addressed her own trauma and addiction issues, and she seems more able to have empathy.
01:07:30
She also has earned her bachelor's degree from Boston University. And so the board noted her work inside the prison in a training program matching dogs and military veterans.
01:07:41
The board said, quote, she acknowledged that due to her pattern of dishonesty, many people have been harmed.
01:07:47
She's willing to try and rectify the harm she has caused, end quote. So, I mean, if that's the point of our prison system, then it seems like she met those demands.
01:07:56
She did it. Also, she was young, on drugs, you know, in with a crowd or whatever.
01:08:03
And I think what we've learned over the years is like that's definitely a thing you do not see the true sociopaths or psychopaths do.
01:08:12
They do not admit that they did anything wrong. They are the victim. It's always sad for them.
01:08:17
They never do this. So it's like, that's all anyone's looking for. Yeah, rehabilitation.
01:08:22
And I mean, you know, I just can't ever not think about the fact that I hung out with the fucked up people back then when I was a 13 year old.
01:08:31
And to think that the mistakes I made back then. Yeah, not that I'd ever I did anything.
01:08:38
I mean, I did illegal shit for sure. I didn't hurt anyone, but I definitely fucking did illegal shit.
01:08:42
And so the fact, you know, it's just I'm just always so grateful that I got out of that.
01:08:48
And so for her to have a chance to do that, too, is important, I think. Yes. Agreed. OK.
01:08:54
All right. Well, Karen, let's get into your wild story about the Berkeley hostage crisis.
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01:11:37
Okay. Mine this week I picked because I like doing these ones where I can remember hearing about it or some kind of, I love those. Right.
01:11:46
Some kind of thing where you're like, wait, what was that? Oh yeah. I'm going to talk about this. So I had this, um,
01:11:52
I can't remember if whatever I was watching or thinking of, but it was like, because this isn't there, there was a murder in it, but it was more of a,
01:12:00
hostage crisis. So this is, um, the man's name was Murdad Dashti and it was the 1990
01:12:09
Berkeley hostage crisis. Do you remember this? No. 1990. You were blogging. No, you were too young back then. It was just called diarying back then.
01:12:19
I was 10 in 1990. So no, I didn't even know how to write yet. Can you write a 10?
01:12:25
you could write cursive. I bet. Yeah. I bet you could write a nice paragraph about like what I did this summer.
01:12:32
Yes. With some good $10 words in it. Yeah. Okay. So I was 20. So I was in San Francisco.
01:12:39
Oh, so you were fucking there for it. No, sorry. I was, I was in Sacramento. It could have been you.
01:12:45
I'm yeah. I moved to San Francisco when I was 22. So I was Sacramento. So I wasn't like right across the Bay,
01:12:51
but we were close by. Right. And it was on the news. This was so crazy because when this happened and the news found out about it, they went live on the news.
01:13:02
Okay, so this is basically what happened. It's September 26, 1990, just before midnight.
01:13:10
And a 29-year-old Iranian male named Murdad Dashti and his friend decided to go to Henry's public house,
01:13:19
which is in the lobby of the Durant Hotel one block south of the Berkeley campus in Berkeley, California,
01:13:29
right across the Bay Bridge from San Francisco. So Murda Dashti had told his friend he went to Berkeley four years earlier.
01:13:41
He had graduated with an engineering degree. And he didn't get a job. Like he had, um, he came from Iran and obviously was super smart and got into Berkeley, which
01:13:53
no one I knew could do. No. Um, and got this engineering degree, but then when he got out, couldn't get a job that was
01:14:01
like, he didn't get an engineering job or he had this, these dreams of like, now I'm
01:14:05
in America and now I'm going to get a really awesome high paying job. Um, so he couldn't get it.
01:14:09
And he was, he like started doing, um, uh, handyman work and it was, you know, very much beneath him, but he needed the money. Um, he had also gotten married, uh, I think it
01:14:23
was the year before he graduated and his marriage like kind of crumbled. And the, the more he
01:14:30
wasn't finding a job and the less money they had and stuff, um, the more controlling he was with
01:14:36
his wife and his wife was like, see you later. Money issues. Yes. Bad news. So he ends up in
01:14:42
this apartment alone. And, uh, and he was later on the police found out that he was schizophrenic.
01:14:49
He was a paranoid schizophrenic. So he had started to hear voices, but he wasn't, he didn't deal with
01:14:55
it in any way. He, he just was listening to the voices, fighting with the voices. He was living
01:15:01
in that world, but he didn't ever go, um, get any kind of mental help or medical help for that issue.
01:15:09
So that night on December 26th, he tells his friend he wants to go to a bar where a lot of blonde white women will be.
01:15:18
And so his friend decides that they should go to Henry's. And Henry's was this, it was really close to the campus.
01:15:24
So a lot of sorority girls and frat boys would go there. And it was just like this super popular bar.
01:15:32
Sounds like a blast. Yeah. Oh, sorry. A lot of this I got from a show that I found online that's an ID channel show called Deadly Demands.
01:15:43
Season one, episode five. And they had actually in this show a lot of this live footage that was from KPIX.
01:15:51
I don't know if you remember Channel 5 in San Francisco, in the Bay Area. KPIX is the local news, local TV channel.
01:15:58
Do you know their jingle? KPIX, no. I could um channel two was the one we watched the most which was KTVU uh they had a whole song about
01:16:08
yeah there was only one two was there like slow yeah isn't that good there's only one two there's
01:16:14
only one two fucking love that and in the late 70s early 80s when the San Francisco Giants only ever
01:16:20
lost like they never won a game ever there was a like a 15 second promo that they would run
01:16:26
during the cartoon time and like after school, like four o'clock or whatever. And it was just like the, the most janky early eighties graphics of a baseball player swinging
01:16:37
a bat. But the, as he swung, it was just like flash animation where the colors changed into
01:16:43
like a, like, um, brown and yellow rainbow. So it'd be, he would swing and it'd be like brown,
01:16:49
light brown, tan, yellow, orange or whatever. And the song that played underneath it was
01:16:54
come on giants hang in there oh my god how fucking pathetic is that that's our new thing
01:17:03
hang in there come on georgia hang in there we used to my sister and i used to sing it to each
01:17:11
other all the time i love it i love it one because it's fucking hilarious and horrible
01:17:16
two because you're singing and you have a great voice so it's like like it's good like if i tried
01:17:21
it wouldn't be good. Well, also, it's so tacky. It's so ugly. Everything's brown.
01:17:26
It doesn't. It's brown. And it's the kind of thing like you would never see it these days because it's like, no,
01:17:31
don't don't cheer on your losing team by basically going. Don't quit baseball. You'll get there.
01:17:37
Yeah. Like, don't walk off the field. Don't give up. So anyhow, I told you it was going to be terrible.
01:17:45
OK. OK, so props to KTVU. But this was KPIX. OK. totally different channel Um so they in Henry um they call last call Um they the um Dosh and his friend are sitting in the corner And at one point his friend goes up to get drinks
01:18:08
And Doshi goes, hold on a second, I'm going to go out to the car. He goes out to the car, and he comes back with a briefcase.
01:18:13
Yeah. So Last Call is called. Everyone's kind of like, they're like wrapping it up.
01:18:23
And at one point, Dashi opens the briefcase, pulls out a semi-automatic and just starts shooting it into the air.
01:18:32
In the bar? In the bar. So there are 67 people in the bar. Holy shit. At the time.
01:18:39
And half of them run out. Then I think they said like eight people were shot in that time.
01:18:50
So and then everybody else hits the floor. and kind of when this dust settles he says he yells to everybody um if you're hurt you can leave
01:18:59
right now so weird yes so they're like one woman in this and deadly deadly demands she she got shot
01:19:09
eight times and she didn't even know it she was just like sitting there what the fuck yes and
01:19:14
because it's an automatic weapon because we fucking need automatic weapons in this country
01:19:18
so fucking badly assault rifles everyone have one and this guy had many um he yeah she got shot
01:19:26
eight times and didn't she said i felt uncomfortable and then i touched my side and i was bleeding
01:19:31
so she got up and walked out what the fuck she's totally probably making me feel much better
01:19:38
though about what the pain that you probably i always like think about the pain when you get shot
01:19:43
yeah well you i think you go into shock like she would go into shock because she didn't get shot
01:19:48
yeah in any she got luckily was like her side um so she got to leave and then there was a guy
01:19:56
that he shot a guy right in the chest a student and two other guys went can we please bring him
01:20:02
outside because he can't go outside by himself and she said you can but you have to come back
01:20:08
so they all go outside i seriously doubt they came back can you imagine you're like i'm a man
01:20:14
of my word. I'm here. I'm here again. So, um, okay. So there's a cop, a patrol officer that's
01:20:23
walking up and down the street and he's, um, like half a block away. He hears gunshots. He thinks it
01:20:30
might be firecrackers, but he goes to look and see what it is. And as he gets closer, he sees
01:20:35
the people running out of the pub. He realizes then it's gunfire and immediately calls it in.
01:20:40
so um so there's cops and ambulances and everybody on the scene really quickly because luckily someone
01:20:48
was right there like the second it went off um so there's uh they they have the bar surrounded
01:20:54
you know very quickly the SWAT team is on site and um so this is the amazing part he so
01:21:04
the hurt people leave he's got everybody else and he immediately makes everyone that's still in the
01:21:09
bar line up against the windows that face the, there's like a wall of windows that face
01:21:15
the street. And he's like, everybody line up against the windows. Therefore they're blocking, um, the windows from the cops can't see and they can't shoot
01:21:24
into the windows. How scary for those people. Yeah. Where's his friend right now?
01:21:29
His friend ran out. Okay. Yeah. And his friend ran out, ran to the cops, said his name is this.
01:21:34
He has these guns. Like I didn't know. And he lives up the street. So then immediately the cops get a search warrant and they go into his apartment and they start discovering all the things that they eventually find out about him, which is he went to Berkeley.
01:21:48
He's basically now living almost in squalor, divorced. And he's written all these letters to the police, to the government, basically saying, you owe me 16 trillion dollars for the psychic services that I've been providing for you.
01:22:06
So he believes that the voices in his head are the American government telling him what to do.
01:22:11
And he has been listening and obeying and now believes he should be compensated for what he's been doing.
01:22:19
And it's so insane in the show. They show two hours before he takes this bar hostage.
01:22:28
he had called 911 in Berkeley and he's taught and this woman is so calm and trying to get the
01:22:35
information out of him but he's basically saying in a very calm and rational sounding voice he's
01:22:41
saying okay so I just need the police and the government to pay me the money they owe me oh my
01:22:47
god because they have been using you know I my telepathy they've been using it and they said
01:22:56
they were going to pay me and I need that money. Did you listen to it? Yes. I didn't realize,
01:23:01
I thought it was a reenactment and then realized because everyone's so chill. Yes. They were,
01:23:06
the woman was so professional and he was so calm that it was not a reenactment. And it was,
01:23:11
it's the kind of thing where if I was a dispatcher, I don't know if I would have stayed on the phone
01:23:16
with him as long as she did, because it sounded like bullshit. It went from reasonable to super
01:23:22
crazy where you'd go, Oh, this is a person playing a prank. It doesn't sound like a crazy person at
01:23:26
all. He sounds very reasonable. And like, he just needs his money. And what he starts telling her is
01:23:31
he needs money because he just got this letter saying he has to go to jail. And what had happened,
01:23:37
what had happened was he, uh, I think it was like three weeks before. I can't remember the
01:23:43
timeline exactly, but he, because he had, didn't have a job because his wife left him because he
01:23:49
didn't have any money. He had taken his car, driven into San Francisco and just smashed
01:23:54
a bunch of really nice cars with his car And he got arrested for it He got caught after having done it He basically probably went to like Pacific Heights or Knob Hill or somewhere crazy fancy
01:24:06
and just like smashed all the Mercedes like parked on one street. I mean, who wouldn't want to?
01:24:11
I bet it felt pretty great. Probably. As revenge. But then here's the problem. They arrest him.
01:24:18
They bring him into the police station and they do a strip search on him. And for him already being in the mental state that he's in and also being a practicing Muslim where being naked, like they, they made him strip naked and it was incredibly obvious.
01:24:34
I mean, it'd be demeaning to anybody. It doesn't matter what your religion is, but the way they were saying it in this story, it made it sound like it was in a religious way, not very inappropriate for someone.
01:24:46
Yeah. Probably now there's like, nah, I don't know. so so that was part of it so um so when he one of his first demands so what he does is
01:24:56
um once he gets everyone lined up against the wall he first asked he makes all the blonde
01:25:03
pretty he says all the pretty blonde women in the bar come and stand in the center
01:25:07
so they do and he makes them strip and then there's no it's not in any of the like articles I found it wasn't, it was definitely not in deadly demand, but, um, I heard about this,
01:25:24
like it was things that people weren't, that they weren't putting in the newspaper, but basically
01:25:29
after making these women strip, he made the men in the bar basically sexually assault the women.
01:25:35
Oh my God. But no one had, no one has, that, that was in this website. I found that's like
01:25:41
a police report thing, but they do not go into detail at all. And of course, a lot of the men
01:25:47
tried to block his view so they were pretending to be doing something that they weren't actually
01:25:51
doing but then apparently there were things where he it was he made like them oh my god but but i
01:25:59
don't know what it is yeah it's the creepiest part of the story and it's the part that i remember
01:26:02
people talking about the most where it was like talk about it just person to person yeah so who
01:26:10
knows the urban legend element of it because it's so salacious and gross but also um the thing that
01:26:18
i heard was that he made somebody assault someone else with a carrot and he talked about bugs bunny
01:26:25
a lot like it was this like one of his fixations but that to me that sounds like it could just as
01:26:33
much be an urban legend as it could be anything else that's like totally sounds like when have
01:26:38
Have you seen a carrot in a bar lately? Right. Or did he bring it with him because it was part of his weird plan to humiliate?
01:26:46
What would humiliate a person the most? Right. I don't know. Any way you slice it, it's hideous and disgusting.
01:26:54
But they barely touch on it. In the TV show version, it's just the women standing there stripping and
01:27:00
stripped and crying and being humiliated that way. So then the next thing he says is he makes a guy take a barstool and break out a window.
01:27:11
And then the guy, he sits down against the wall, is squatted down, and he just makes this guy be his voice for him.
01:27:18
So the guy, and you see this, they have news footage of this because this is, they went live on KPIX almost immediately.
01:27:25
And you see the guy who's like a frat boy from the 80s. He's got like, you know, like the blonde hair parted on the side and the white shirt or whatever.
01:27:33
Did he look scared or was he nervous? Too far away to see. But you can kind of just see that it's like an 80s outfit.
01:27:40
And he's basically saying they want, he wants police, he wants police chief Frank Jordan.
01:27:50
Is that the mayor or the police chief? I think it's the police chief. I have it here somewhere.
01:27:56
Wants him to go on the news and take his pants off. He wants him to strip from the waist down and go on live TV.
01:28:02
This is some dark mirror shit. Yes. Black mirror? Black mirror, yeah. This is some black mirror shit.
01:28:07
But it's basically he wants to humiliate the head of the police department the way he was humiliated.
01:28:12
Yeah. And he wants it to be on TV. Yeah. Which, finally, there's a... Because I'd only ever heard of those demands that he had, and they just made it sound like, can you believe that?
01:28:22
It's like, no, there's fucking backstory to this. Yeah. He was... There's a reason for it.
01:28:27
Wow, yeah. There is a logic to it. It's kind of like the center of the whole fucking thing.
01:28:31
It really is. And also why, if you smashed your car into things, why did you have to get strip searched?
01:28:36
Definitely. I mean, it's almost like, were they, yeah. Or were they like, he's clearly on some drugs when he was just schizophrenic.
01:28:45
Or was it that time of like, was it racism? Was it, was it some kind, what was happening?
01:28:51
Definitely. Okay. So, no, it is Frank Jordan. Frank Jordan was the chief of police.
01:29:00
Okay. So anyway, they're like, and he's basically saying he turned on the TV in the bar and he's like, I want to see it happening.
01:29:08
So it's driving the negotiators crazy because he won't get on the phone and he won't talk himself because he knows if he stands up in front of that window, they're going to shoot him.
01:29:19
So he will only talk through a proxy or whatever. So they can't negotiate that way.
01:29:30
So they keep saying like, we need more time. He's also demanding. He demanded $16 trillion.
01:29:37
He also wanted California, Nevada and Oregon. Like, cause he, he want, he is like, this is what I'm owed.
01:29:45
I've done all this work for you psychically. Yeah. You owe me this. So anyway they keep saying we need time or we have to but that when the negotiators and the police start to realize this is a very bad situation because we can give him even some of what he needs We can even approximate a negotiation here So this is
01:30:05
going to go badly. Couldn't they have like lied? Well, but he wanted to see it on the news. He
01:30:10
wanted to see it on his TV. Okay. So he wanted to see something actually happening and they're like,
01:30:15
there's, there will not be progress here. Right. So that all happens. It like basically
01:30:20
in four hours. So it's now 4am and there's no progress. And he's getting really agitated. And
01:30:26
he finally says, I guess I'm going to have to shoot somebody. Which one of you is going to
01:30:32
be the one that gets shot? Oh my God. And he's looking around this bar and it's,
01:30:37
these are college kids. They're all people that are probably the oldest 23 and they're looking at
01:30:44
each other and one guy steps forward and says, I'll, you can shoot me. Yep. So then he says,
01:30:52
can I go tell them what's about to happen? And the guy says, yes. So he goes to the window and
01:30:58
says, I'm about to be, I'm about to be, um, uh, I'm sorry. I'm about to be executed right now.
01:31:07
And of course the police are like, they don't know what to do because they don't have a clear,
01:31:10
they don't have a clear in in any way and it also was a part of it that the part of that was bad
01:31:17
was that it was in this lobby of this hotel so there's people in the hotel and it's the middle of the night
01:31:22
but they know they're like time is ticking away because pretty soon like by 7am this is a college campus
01:31:30
they're practically on campus so like they're not going to be able to keep people
01:31:34
from coming closer and closer to the scene so they know they're going to have to do something
01:31:38
about it soon Oh my God. Um, so the guy yells out the window. Nobody knows what to do. This is on the news.
01:31:44
They have like, they were showing this footage. The kid walks back. He says to the guy, can I say
01:31:50
a prayer? And he, the guy says, yes. And so the kid says a prayer. They all are just sitting there
01:31:57
like watching. Some of them will close their eyes. And then the guy shoots into the ceiling.
01:32:01
And so when they said, these people being interviewed who went through this said, like, they heard all the noises, the smoke clears, and then he's still standing there.
01:32:13
So they realized that he's trying to prove that he means business, but he actually doesn't want to hurt or kill anybody.
01:32:20
But he just feels like he's being pushed to the limit. That guy who volunteered.
01:32:27
They don't say his name. I couldn't find his name anywhere. I know. Amazing. And Hardstark.
01:32:32
What is my dad? Oh, my God. What is your dad? My dad's like, oh, that was a crazy night at work.
01:32:38
Well, I used to go to co-ed bars sometimes. I took some night classes over at Cal.
01:32:43
Yeah. That's what he would call it. Cal. So a couple of the women in the show say that they think that actually made him feel very
01:32:52
empowered and made him feel better. So it brought the level of tension down a little bit.
01:32:56
Because he could choose if he was going to kill him or not. Exactly right. And he kind of chose the better thing.
01:33:01
But that's also from outside the cops freak out because they think someone, someone yells,
01:33:06
I'm about to be executed. And then there's gunshots. So, uh, it's so hard to hear these things and not think of like cell phones.
01:33:18
I know. You know what I mean? Cause you're like, Oh, I wonder if someone had their cell phone open.
01:33:21
I was talking. It's like there weren't cell phones. 1990. There was nothing. Yeah.
01:33:26
It's so weird. There's nothing. It was such a bizarrely innocent time in some ways.
01:33:31
And then also media wise, very stupid because the fact that the news was running it live, like people got to watch it as it happened, was very bad.
01:33:45
And it bolstered him probably because he was like now a big deal. And everyone was that's the thing of like, don't say the killer's name, say the victim's names, because that's what they want is to be famous.
01:33:54
Exactly right. And it gave the police no control. Whatever happened and whatever the newscasters decided to talk about was what was happening.
01:34:03
So when the newscasters found out that he had been diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic, they said it.
01:34:08
He saw it. Then he got all upset. So he got his wife left him or whatever. Yes. He sees it.
01:34:14
And then he's like, it's more. And it's also feeding into his paranoid schizophrenic idea that the government is in his head.
01:34:23
All of the things that were happening were feeding into all his worst fears. Wow, that makes sense.
01:34:29
And escalating it, essentially. Okay, so they put snipers on the roof across the street.
01:34:38
And at one point, they're like, because they're trying to, you know, now it's 4 a.m.
01:34:44
It's been going on. So they decide, the snipers are like, these streetlights are actually compromising our position here.
01:34:52
If he looks out the window, he can see us sitting here. He might freak out. So somebody else decides to shoot out the streetlights.
01:34:59
Well, then he hears, Doshi hears that happening outside and gets all agitated. Jesus, that was a bad idea.
01:35:08
Yeah. That's when they said his mood starts to swing from he's like rage, screaming, going crazy to sitting quietly and mumbling to himself.
01:35:22
for like long periods of time. At 5 a.m. he tells the bartender, give everybody four beers,
01:35:31
everybody drink and have fun. And one of the women being interviewed says that's when we knew
01:35:37
he was going to kill all of us because he basically wanted it all to be okay for us when it happened.
01:35:43
And he felt like that. It was clear that the plan was like, have your last four beers,
01:35:48
have your like final hurrah party. Oh my God. And that's when it got super scary.
01:35:57
So he has a briefcase just for the details. In the briefcase, he has a large caliber revolver, two handguns, a fully automatic pistol.
01:36:09
Oh, sorry, no, the handguns were, one was fully automatic and one was semi-automatic.
01:36:15
And then he has ammunition for all three. So he's just got, it's like he's not going anywhere.
01:36:21
He's got a briefcase full of stuff. as they're watching the news the news reports that
01:36:28
the boy that he shot in the chest died at the hospital oh no and Dashti starts going crazy
01:36:34
going I didn't do it I did not kill him they're lying this is the government they're lying
01:36:40
I didn't do it and he loses his shit oh my god which I think is another really sad part about it
01:36:48
because it's like he went in there he had this big plan he was gonna he wanted to defile America's citizens.
01:36:53
He wanted to do to America what America was doing to him, but he actually didn't like actually deep down that,
01:37:00
that he wasn't a killer really. He wanted to do that, but he didn't, doesn't sound like cause letting all the people who got hurt go is just
01:37:07
such a, yeah, go get help. You know, it's yeah, it does. It's not what like a, you know,
01:37:14
psychopath would do or a person that's like, I've got this plan and here's my perfect revenge.
01:37:18
It's like a person with a serious mental issue. who's trying to fix the complete abject desperation of his own life.
01:37:26
It's horrifying. So anyway, so. Okay, so he tells one of the female hostages to go into to see if she can go find,
01:37:43
go into the kitchen, which is now dark, and find a light switch. Like he wanted to go into the back room for some reason.
01:37:49
Well, she goes in there and then sees that there's an exit door and she gets the fuck out.
01:37:54
And then she goes to the police and like reports everything that's going on and updates everything.
01:38:02
And then another at around 4 a.m., another female hostage, she had moved into and hid in the dining room area.
01:38:13
And she managed to open like an accordion style door that led to the hotel lobby.
01:38:18
so she got out too um so then uh around 6 15 in the morning um the rear kitchen door opens again
01:38:28
and a third female hostage who was sent into the kitchen to find a light he did not learn his life
01:38:35
does yeah he just wants that light so bad he's not seeing his mistake so she gets out too so now
01:38:41
there's 33 people still in the pub with him. Um, now the problem is again, because it's the nineties,
01:38:49
there's no cell phones or anything. The whole phone system is the hotel's phone system. So it's,
01:38:54
you know, that crazy thing of like, it's all the lines are connected to the lobby.
01:38:58
So it took them that re a really long time to just go straight to the pub phone. Wow. So they
01:39:05
finally start calling the pub phone and he won't answer it. And he's saying, they're just trying
01:39:09
to get to me. They're trying to distract me. Um, and just not, not coincidentally, but by chance
01:39:15
or whatever the, is that the same? Um, the phone's cord couldn't stretch past the bar. So when the
01:39:24
phone was ringing, he was like, bring it to me, but it couldn't reach where he was. So he would
01:39:28
have had to get up and walk to the bar to answer the phone, which he believed was a trick. So he
01:39:33
makes a guy, yeah, it's just one more thing where it's like, everything's feeding into his paranoia.
01:39:37
So he makes a guy get on the phone. And again, by proxy, they're trying to negotiate, which it doesn't work. And, and the guy is demanding yelling stuff and whatever. And the proxy is kind of trying to say the calm version of what the guy is saying.
01:39:53
because he's like, I want $16 trillion for my mental telepathy services. It's all that stuff.
01:39:59
Um so they had basically they knew they were at an impasse because they weren going to be able to negotiate with him They there was no they had they had done everything that they could in terms of negotiation So they knew now that the waiting strategy that part was over because they had they had to take some kind of an action So they decided
01:40:18
they were going to do, um, diversion tactics, which is basically when the SWAT team
01:40:24
goes in in two teams and one of the team rolls in like a flash canister and then the other team
01:40:31
comes in from the other side. So when they, they, uh, it's seven 23 in the morning. So they'd been
01:40:39
there for fucking almost eight hours. Um, they roll in the flash canister and, um, everyone starts
01:40:48
screaming and the cops come in and they, the, the second team like opens the door and they're like,
01:40:55
get out, get out, get out. Um, so some people are running and as the, he stands up from his place
01:41:04
where he'd been, you know, like crouched against the wall and he starts moving toward a booth where
01:41:08
he had all these people seated. And when the SWAT team saw him moving toward that group of
01:41:13
hostages, they shot him. Um, they, they yelled for him to put the gun down or whatever. And he
01:41:19
didn't and he kept moving. And so they shot him there and then they got the rest of the hostages
01:41:23
out and then they got Dosti into an ambulance and he died on the way to the hospital.
01:41:31
Yeah. Holy shit. Essentially, the news was using high power cameras. They were monitoring police radios.
01:41:43
They were seeking public interviews. They were broadcasting detailed and often uncorroborated information the entire night
01:41:55
and never thinking about what would happen. And they actually, I'm not sure if it was KPIX
01:42:02
or a different news place, but they reported the SWAT team plan on the news. And the only reason Dashti didn't see it
01:42:12
is because he had turned it to a different channel at that point. What the fuck?
01:42:17
Just by luck. Because they were just basically, it was almost like having never been in that scenario before they were like let's go with the
01:42:23
story let's keep it's the reason that like it's the reason we are now in this 24-hour news cycle
01:42:28
that is that is captured and poisoned the minds of so many people because the news does it for
01:42:36
money and because they keep eyes on the screen and this was almost like one of the first versions
01:42:41
of that and the worst versions of it. Yeah. So anyway, to date, they say this incident is one of the most significant and successful
01:42:58
hostage rescue operations in U.S. history. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's amazing that they were able to do that without anyone else getting hurt.
01:43:06
Yes. You know? Yeah, they didn't shoot anybody or no innocent bystanders. But it's really crazy in that show watching in the morning light
01:43:17
when those people finally start running and there's just SWAT people all the way up the street going like this
01:43:22
and just people in 80s clothes fucking booking it up the street. How have I never seen that?
01:43:28
It's, yeah. I'm just picturing the Columbine video, the footage of the kids getting out of the house.
01:43:37
scary that is. It's so, so awful. That is so terrifying. You just got to wonder what you do
01:43:42
in those, like you personally would do in those situations. And as much as I'm like, it's a thing
01:43:47
of like, well, those girls escaped, but like at what cost, you know, because you're always like,
01:43:53
well, they're going to kill someone else because I escaped. But then they were able to probably tell
01:43:57
police where he was crouched and what he was doing and what he. Yes. Like what this situation
01:44:04
was inside. Also the girl that got shot eight times, her friends had to stay behind. So she
01:44:10
had all this guilt She got to leave and her friends were there So she like um you got shot eight times I think Yeah You got shot eight times You you free and clear but i mean that what a terrible scenario to even be in totally um and yeah it just
01:44:26
it just such a crazy fucking unbelievable thing that happened yeah well fuck man yeah
01:44:33
okay we're back are there any updates karen not really like case updates but because of the way
01:44:45
the media covered this story and the live updates of the hostage situation and the updates of the
01:44:51
special response team plan, that whole mess. The hostages later sent an open letter to the media
01:44:58
asking them to reconsider the way they report future hostage situations, saying some of the
01:45:03
broadcasts had put their lives at risk. And as a result of that, news stations changed their
01:45:09
policies about reporting breaking news like that. That's incredible. Yeah. Wow. All right.
01:45:15
Let's head back in to wrap up the show. God bless. Amen. Okay. Positive thing this week?
01:45:25
Positive thing this week. Go ahead. Okay. Last night I got to see the movie The Big Sick, which our friends Emily Gordon and Kumail Nanjiani made.
01:45:37
and it was so lovely and such a great romantic story that isn't shitty it was weird because i've
01:45:50
known emily for a long time and she told me the story about how it's a story of how they started
01:45:54
dating and she told me this and just to watch it and it and kumail's in it and uh zoe kazan who's
01:46:02
so fucking talented. It was just, please go watch it. It's just such a great movie of like,
01:46:07
is it out? I think it's coming out this weekend or something. Okay. Yeah. But I,
01:46:12
it was just so lovely and it was great to see, great to see that. It made me really happy.
01:46:16
Nice. Yeah. Cool. What about you? Well, I guess I'll just do, I can do the simple one of that. I,
01:46:21
I am, I get to write on baskets this new season, which is very exciting. It's amazing. Um,
01:46:27
I love that job and I love the people that work there. And it's just like a very, very, very cool room to work in.
01:46:35
Yeah. And that's so great. So, yeah. So that's it's even though it's hard to have what this is now a full time job, this podcast.
01:46:46
So to have two is challenging, but we've done it before. We have. Okay, we're back.
01:46:54
Karen, how do you feel about the fact that in this episode, you're getting another writing job?
01:47:00
You're picking up a new job. Dude, it made me laugh so hard. It's just like you were talking about it.
01:47:08
Just like they're going to they'll make it work. They made it work before or whatever.
01:47:12
We're just like, here comes the breaking point of like I worked my whole life to be a sitcom writer.
01:47:19
It was finally happening. And it's like, but now you have to quit because you have this other thing that you never saw coming, literally sitting in your lap.
01:47:28
And like, and you can't do it. You have to say no to one of, I think, one of the best shows that's ever been on TV.
01:47:35
You have to say no to it. But I mean, the saving grace is that it's not a permanent, it wasn't a permanent job.
01:47:40
It was, you know, however many weeks. Right. So that was like the way you thought you could get through it.
01:47:46
But shit, man. It was hard. I mean, it was hard for you and I, everybody involved, and just exhausting in general.
01:47:54
And then also, that's why so many of my stories turned into me just retelling I Survived, because it was just this constant churn where I'm like, yeah, I can't write up a whole new story for myself this week.
01:48:05
It's wild. I mean, the shit that we actually just did because it was in front of us and we got it done is pretty hilarious.
01:48:13
It's like, looking back, it's laugh out loud funny. But at the time we were just like,
01:48:18
well, this is just what we're gonna have to get done. Yeah, and it feels like, so we're in episode 73,
01:48:22
so it just kind of feels like we were just white knuckling it. And think well it feels like we were growing so much and it was so exciting that we were like high off of that And then there a point I think around now where we start white knuckling it and we kind of haven stopped doing that since
01:48:40
No, because every I mean, I was in a version of show business for the for 15 years prior.
01:48:49
And I would what I would tell you was what I believe, because for 15 years, that's what I saw, which is like, you can't don't ever make decisions like this is going to go on forever because when it stops, you'll be fucked.
01:49:00
So you have to pretend like it's going to end soon. But there's another side to that, which is like, well, that isn't what's happening.
01:49:09
and you're basically setting up safety nets or like acting like that and killing yourself because
01:49:14
you have all these safety nets. Like this success and this show is such an outlier.
01:49:20
And we're so lucky. We're so lucky that I have never believed in it and I refuse to believe in
01:49:27
it. Well, Vince and I were in couples therapy recently and we were talking about like the tour
01:49:32
right now and how stressful it is and everything. And it's been 10 years. And then I said, you know,
01:49:37
this podcast feels like something that happened to all of us, not that we did. Yes.
01:49:44
Like it wasn't a plan happening to us, which is, we're so lucky that it shows us,
01:49:50
but it's, yeah. So definitely been like a doubles Amex kind of thing. Oh, I thought you said doubles Amex where I'm like,
01:50:00
do we get, do we get double points for this shit? Oh my God. We can fly to the moon.
01:50:06
because we have so many Ameth points. All right. Let's, should we close this out?
01:50:13
Let's close it out. So this episode was originally titled Chill Satanist, which we love.
01:50:18
But if we were naming it today, perhaps we would call it... I love Jamestown, which is what Georgia says
01:50:25
because she meant Jonestown and because we're very tired. Oh, so me. And because we're just human beings.
01:50:30
Thank you for making an excuse, but I am so Jamestown. I am, that's me. And then we could also name it So Many Bad Carl's.
01:50:38
Yeah. That was kind of crazy how many bad Carl's there were in this episode. Truly.
01:50:43
Well, thanks so much for listening to another episode of Rewind. We're going to go back to 2017 and let us say goodbye to you there.
01:50:49
Please. Well, thanks for listening, you guys. Yes, thank you. We hope everything was great.
01:50:59
We hope you are very happy. This has been my favorite murder. You guys, thank you.
01:51:06
Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Bye. Bye. Mimi, want a cookie? Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project.
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