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Where to next? Goodbye. Hello. Hello. Big news, everybody. Exactly Right's newest podcast, Brief Recess, is finally here.
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Brief Recess is a smart, funny, and deeply insightful look at the American legal system,
00:02:06
the real stories, the loopholes, and all the ways the law shapes everyday life. It's hosted by attorney and viral TikTok star Michael Foote and his best friend Melissa Malbranch.
00:02:16
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00:02:25
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00:02:34
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00:02:43
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00:02:51
And now please enjoy Exactly Right's newest podcast, Brief Recess. Goodbye. Welcome to Brief Recess.
00:03:02
I'm Michael Foote. I'm Melissa Malbranch. Today, we're going to be talking about the last time I was ever seen in public in a romper.
00:03:08
Melissa's last time at an estate sale, the Diddy trial, the time Melissa had to talk to her mother about water sports.
00:03:15
Monica Lewinsky deep dives into cases about special immigration juvenile status, an interview with Congressman Robert Garcia, and all the questions you send me in my DMs.
00:03:25
I'm Michael Foote. I'm a criminal defense lawyer and an immigration attorney here in New York City.
00:03:29
I am the first thing you see in the morning and the last thing you see before your husband disappears.
00:03:35
Melissa, would you like to introduce yourself? I can't believe you just said that.
00:03:39
My name is Melissa Malbranch. I am absolutely positively not a lawyer. I stand by that.
00:03:44
I have been working in the nonprofit space for about 25 years now. And Michael and I met, I'd say, about 10 years ago.
00:03:53
We've been really good friends ever since. You called me when your cat died. And that's how I knew we were close friends.
00:04:00
Your cat was dying and you called me instead of your husband. I did. Because I knew that you would understand what I was going through, but you wouldn't be as emotional about it as my husband.
00:04:11
People often come to me when they want a direct emotionless answer. Unless it's like a Saturday night and I've been drinking.
00:04:18
In Brooklyn and eating Taco Bell. We're going to be talking about all sorts of legal things that come up in the headlines.
00:04:26
I've really wanted to start this show with my best friend, Melissa, because there are so many long form things I can't talk about on social media.
00:04:33
And people love coming to like my feeds to learn a little something about what's happening with immigration law, what's going on in court.
00:04:39
But I can't like really expand or it's hard for me to answer all their questions.
00:04:44
So you'll hear a lot on this show, we constantly are going to be returning to this notion of like, what can we be doing? Right? Like, I hate the concept of doom scrolling. I hate the notion that people aren't like, supporting each other. I hate this idea that like, oh, we're descending into fascism. And like, that's it. It was like a think piece. I hate that idea. I want people to feel empowered to sort of like, flex their democratic muscles to affect some sort of change in their community.
00:05:11
even if it's going to a small protest, even if it's like working and volunteering at like your
00:05:16
food bank and sort of like looking at the headlines, seeing what's happening and then
00:05:19
explaining what's going on and then exactly what you can do about it rather than it just being like,
00:05:24
well, that sucks. On to the next article, right? Exactly. So I could never do like a full romper situation. I feel like I've seen you in a romper and I don't
00:05:33
think that's true at all. Where'd you see me in a romper? You were out here on these streets in a
00:05:37
This morning, Andre asked me if I was starting work at a garage. Okay, murder on the dance floor.
00:05:48
Jesus Christ, Andre. That is... No, no, no. So Andre is I mean you know Andre a very conservative little man like dresses like everybody dad Yes Yeah So like anything out of the ordinary I feel like I given him some things that don fit me Like they too small So I give them to him
00:06:06
You have not. I feel like I've given him a sweater over the years. I feel like that might be your other black friend that you've given things.
00:06:12
Okay. Immediately. Instantly racist. I mean, no, not racist. I feel like there are black people who know what I'm talking about.
00:06:23
Sometimes you are your white friend's only black friend. They have like two. Yeah.
00:06:29
No, I understand. I'm the only gay friend for a lot of people. And I'm treated like a mascot sometimes.
00:06:35
They're like, get the gay one at the wedding. Get that. He'll get the party started.
00:06:39
Can you get one? No, we need someone who's looking cute at them. Wear something nice.
00:06:44
Something. We got to get someone. Like a good dresser. What's his name again? Mark?
00:06:47
It's never. Like you're not Mike? I am. Like you're not Mike? I am Mike to a very specific group of people.
00:06:55
One demographic calls me Mike. I'm going to give you one chance to guess. Yeah. Is it somebody from like your childhood?
00:07:02
It's the guy fixing my dishwasher. It's like the guy fixing the plumbing in my apartment.
00:07:09
It's always like a man over a certain age who works. Is it because they don't know you?
00:07:14
Yeah. And they say the name is Michael and they decide. No, it's like my dad's friends.
00:07:18
It's like people who know me. it's men of a certain white straight men of a certain age are like mike how's it going it's a
00:07:25
very long island thing okay people randomly call me michelle for no good reason i've called you way
00:07:30
worse than michelle yeah they're worse behind your back into your face what did you do this weekend
00:07:35
well you were working at the garage i was yeah i i changed the carburetor brad will look me right
00:07:40
in the eye and be like oh professor plum is joining us if i'm wearing like a sweater and a
00:07:45
time just graced. It's actually so diabolical. I don't catch strays in my house. I catch them
00:07:51
straight to the face. What did I do this weekend? So this is wardrobe changing time for me. So I do
00:07:58
this biannually. Oh, Melissa loves a good closet clean out special. But I recorded something and I
00:08:06
was going to post to TikTok, but I'm not like you. I'm not a prolific poster. If you're thinking
00:08:11
about posting something to TikTok, my number one rule, don't be precious with it.
00:08:15
post-it, unedited, broken, messy. I am not precious at all. No, no, no, no. That's not it.
00:08:22
It's just a mess. But I was just like, I am actually embarrassed at the amount of shit that
00:08:27
I own. It is. But those are the videos that everyone loves. Those are the videos of mine
00:08:33
that blow up when I'm like, hey, I had to pick up a client and I'm wearing coochie cutters and a
00:08:37
crop top that's mesh because it's pride month. And I ended up having to go to the precinct and
00:08:42
And it's always so mortifying for me, but those are the videos that usually blow up.
00:08:46
I mean, I actually don't care if the video blows up or not. I mean, maybe I should, but I don't care.
00:08:52
But I care that I feel like I have become victim to over-consuming, right? Yeah.
00:09:00
And to be fair, I do buy a lot of thrifted items. We know I love an estate sale, but I do buy things also.
00:09:09
So let me just be clear about that. Yeah. And no judgment here. I'm a violent consumer.
00:09:14
I am judging myself. Okay. I am judging myself. I am where disposable income goes to meet its disposal.
00:09:20
Oh, I don't want to be that person. But there's a difference between not wanting to be someone and accepting who you are.
00:09:26
Know thyself. I know myself and I am a bitch with too much shit. And not enough space.
00:09:36
Do you have storage? So that's the thing, right? is that every year I pack up, twice a year I pack up my shit and I take it to storage.
00:09:46
A storage facility outside of my shit. Oh, okay. Okay. So that is actually cry for help.
00:09:50
It is. Yeah, it is a little bit of a- I need someone to come in and tell me what to do.
00:09:55
I'll do it. No, not you. Sorry. I need somebody who's not Michael. I love that my friends don't want to fucking hang out.
00:10:01
No, no, no, no, no. They're like, I'm like, oh, I'd love to come over to dinner.
00:10:04
They're like, get fucked. No, no, no, no. Get out of here. Because you will enable me.
00:10:09
No. Yes. I throw everything out. I'm like, Brad, this has been here for a week. It's our tax return.
00:10:16
I think we should either post it online or throw it out. I'm like, this can't be sitting here.
00:10:22
I feel like you would come over and we just wouldn't get anything done. I feel like it would turn into a runway.
00:10:26
It would. I do think that we would probably do some sort of fashion show. I don't want that.
00:10:30
Actually, comment below if you do want to see me go to Melissa's house. We do a full wardrobe.
00:10:36
I could, yeah, we could do different. There's somebody out there who wants to help me take a good, long, hard look at my wardrobe and be like, bitch, you're never going to wear this.
00:10:45
And if you want to enable this dysfunction, please comment on this video that you want us to do a little fashion montage.
00:10:54
This is actually a cry for help, but you're not helping. No, I think we do a link and people can then donate to our – and then we see how much money people give us to do a fashion montage.
00:11:02
I am not asking anybody for money. I am. I'm not. And this is how you get ahead in life.
00:11:08
Maybe. Actually, speaking of, I saw Alyssa this weekend. That messy bitch. We love her, though.
00:11:14
I love her so much. How do we describe Alyssa? Describe Alyssa for the viewers at home.
00:11:18
Alyssa is our very close mutual friend. She's like a really good friend if you want to do something, because Alyssa is down for whatever.
00:11:25
Yes. She's down for whatever. Hey, Alyssa, let's go to Croatia. Yes. And I do, I get the sense that like her, her doorman like doesn't know what she looks like because she's never home.
00:11:36
Like she's always out. Like she's never. Out in these streets. Yeah. I have to tell you, I track Alyssa.
00:11:42
Yeah, I do too. I follow her. Yeah. Because. For her own safety. For her own. And I'm not even kidding.
00:11:47
For her own safety. I am oftentimes worried about where she is. Has anybody seen her?
00:11:54
Where is she? Melissa will text me in the middle of the night and she be like I can sleep Just checking and have you heard from Alyssa recently I do feel like we should probably keep an eye on her Alyssa taught me how to be chaotic That is who she is in my life
00:12:06
She's sort of like the personification of the Winchester mystery home. She's just sort of like, stove is on, keys are out.
00:12:16
I went to her apartment once and there was all this broken glass in front of the building
00:12:20
and I was like, ooh, rough neighborhood. It was like the West Village. Right. I go into the apartment.
00:12:24
And she had dropped something. I was like, there's so much broken glass. And she was like, oh, yeah.
00:12:29
I dropped like a whole bag of groceries out there earlier. That was me. Like a 200-person unit.
00:12:34
And it was her. Yeah. But I did see her. I took her to a drag queen's birthday party.
00:12:39
We went to Miss Mamshi. Again, let me just one second. I was not invited. And for your own protection and safety, you would have not gone out at midnight on a Friday night.
00:12:51
Oh, for sure. No. Yeah. But, but, but. Ask me. Ask me. No, I don't want to be told no one more time.
00:12:59
Get my hopes up. Get all excited. Well, you won't get your hopes up because you know better, right?
00:13:03
Because you know I'm probably not coming, but I would like to be included. Okay, okay, okay.
00:13:07
I'll just – it was also like deep in Brooklyn and you don't live anywhere near that.
00:13:12
No, I don't. You would have been like, this is a four-hour flight for me to get there from where I live.
00:13:17
When I first started dating my now husband, I was living in Brooklyn and he was not.
00:13:23
Yeah. And it felt like a long distance relationship. It really, really did. And I mean, it really wasn't that far in theory, but it felt.
00:13:32
What did we say? It'd be like that. It'd be like that. And it felt like he was behind God's back.
00:13:37
Brad lived in Hoboken. Oh, God. And when you have to transfer, when you have to cross state lines in interstate commerce like that, it really does.
00:13:46
I was all the way in the East Village. There was like no like clear transit. It was actually really a pain in the ass.
00:13:51
That's not a part of how Diddy got in trouble just crossing the state line. Is it too soon?
00:13:57
We're three minutes into the episode and Diddy's already come over. Are you talking about Diddy trafficking?
00:14:04
Okay, we're going to go right into sidebars. Okay. And I think we've got a nice natural entree into the Diddy case because Melissa's mother, Magalie, throw up a photo of Magalie CJ.
00:14:14
She is an icon. She is the moment. She is she. She is her. She is all of. Yes. My mother is, we often say that my mom is the queen of the kingdom in her mind.
00:14:26
Yes. Allegiant. She is every woman. Yeah. It's all in her. Yeah. And she will never listen to this show.
00:14:35
She might. If I tell her that we give her a shout out, oh, okay. Yeah. What is the Department of Redundancy Department she calls me?
00:14:42
Departement of Redundancy Departement. I'm not going to do the accent because I'll get canceled.
00:14:46
old um so my mom has always loved like a salacious legal case sure right i mean who doesn't a lot of
00:14:55
moms do right so like i remember back in the day you were a child however the oj simpson case my
00:15:02
mother was living for this oh living for every mom in america cut to diddy and my mom is just like
00:15:10
cut through 30 years of history straight to diddy straight to diddy um she's also really into like
00:15:15
the what's his name uh johnny depp one like she was into it yeah so and now she's got nothing but
00:15:21
time so um i mean we all strive to be retired right i would love that so she was like have you
00:15:28
been watching the diddy case and i was like to be honest not really like i'm in and i'm out or
00:15:33
whatever and she's like well he's definitely going to go to jail this is before this was the when it
00:15:37
was first really hitting the headlines and i was just like yeah it's not looking very good for him
00:15:41
And her whole reason. It wasn't. I mean, it didn't end well for him. I mean, it ended better than it could have.
00:15:48
If someone drew a sketch of me the way those court reporters drew sketches of Diddy, I would be on the evening news.
00:15:58
Michael Foot threw himself off a building in embarrassment. That was so wicked, wild, diabolical.
00:16:06
That was a crime in and of itself, drawing someone like that. I mean, you reap what you sow, Sean.
00:16:11
what and also let me let me i just haven't heard someone say you reap what you sow in
00:16:19
quite some time i say that all the time it's very uh mel gibson and signs like he's very much
00:16:24
it is very much like this bucolic imagery it evokes so like we're in the fields growing corn
00:16:33
you reap what you sow you do you reap what you sow that is such a that's an american farmer
00:16:38
subsidy shout out right there. Shout out to you, all the American farmers working hard here in this
00:16:42
country, in the Midwest. So her whole thing was he's definitely going to jail. And I was like,
00:16:48
okay, it's not looking good for him. Why do you think so? Right. Agreed. And Melissa called me
00:16:52
and told me this and I walked straight into the street with my dog. Didn't look either direction.
00:16:57
I had the most uncomfortable conversation with my mother about water sports. my mother was convinced that this man was going to go to jail because he had engaged in water sports
00:17:13
this was in her mind make it clear this was the crime that he committed in her mind was the crime
00:17:20
and i was trying to explain to my mom i'm like well it's not some people like that no melissa
00:17:27
She's rewriting the legislation to include water sports as a federal crime. She's like, people don't like that.
00:17:36
And I was just like, I mean, they might. And she was just like, no, he's going straight to jail for example.
00:17:45
Absolutely. No due process, no jurisprudence. No, this is why he should go to jail.
00:17:50
He deserves it. I mean and again back in the day Monica Lewinsky my mom was in the car with my mom I will never forget this listen to some NPR show or something where they were talking about Monica Lewinsky sexual past And Monica Lewinsky and I are around the same age give or take a year or two
00:18:06
And I think it came out that before Bill, Monica had had like maybe two or three sexual
00:18:14
partners beforehand. And my mom was like, ah, disgusting. Oh, no. and and so i'm in the car with my mom and i'm driving and i am not making any yeah you can't
00:18:29
move no no no no no oh no no no no no no and i went home and i called a friend of mine and i
00:18:36
locked the door i waited till she was my mom was upset that monica lawinsky has had like one or
00:18:42
two guys and she was like did you keep your mouth shut i was like firmly so this is who my mom is
00:18:49
But for dinner, we have to – well, first of all, I think I'm going to meet Monica Lewinsky next week.
00:18:54
Can I go? I know. I'll text you the details. Okay. I really want to. It is like my friend – anyway, is getting me in to meet with her.
00:19:03
So I don't know if I can, like, sneak someone in. But I won't bring you to the drag queen's birthday.
00:19:06
I will bring you to meet Monica Lewinsky. Yeah. Like pick and choose, my friend.
00:19:09
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like that's equally, you know, exciting. I think if I have to choose, I'd rather meet Monica Lewinsky.
00:19:16
Okay. But let me explain the drag queen, Miss Mamshi. she does uh deadpan drag to like very hilarious songs like ding ding ding went the trolley but
00:19:25
her face is like the whole time and let me just we'll throw up a clip we'll throw up ding ding
00:19:31
ding and oh clang clang clang right right right we can't sing on the show because we'll get sued
00:19:35
but she always has like a tag we can speak lyrics that's copyright law um she always has like the
00:19:41
tag on her outfit still it's like still on the it's so good it's so it's so great you have a
00:19:47
couple drinks it's great anyway i'll bring you to meet monica but diddy the thing about that i was
00:19:52
just so incredulous was um melissa's mother each time she brought up one of the horrific
00:19:57
things she was being charged with right people testifying sure the awful testimony i mean it
00:20:03
was really extreme it was terrible yeah melissa's mother was like but the water sports that was what
00:20:11
It was really – she couldn't get over it. She refuses to believe that anybody could be into that.
00:20:21
And I was trying to – and then finally I was like, you know what, mom? I'm just like acutely aware of how much water I'm drinking right now as we're talking about this.
00:20:26
Listen. Listen, that's fine. I'm actually out. Let's take a brief recess. You're a grown-ass man.
00:20:32
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00:23:07
Welcome back to Brief Recess. I'm Michael Foote. I'm Melissa Malbranch. This is Under Earth.
00:23:11
We're going to take a deep dive into a case. This one is actually really near and dear to me and my heart and a lot of what my day-to-day life looks like.
00:23:19
So I pictured I thought it'd be cool to kind of talk to you about it. The name of the case is Sarmiento et al.
00:23:24
v. Perry et al. So it's a class action lawsuit that the ACLU filed against ICE, effectively submitting a class action lawsuit of a group of minors who were seeking immigration status here in the U.S.
00:23:35
and were not being given the opportunity to be bonded out of detention centers. So they were being held for long periods of time in detention centers.
00:23:43
Okay. And when you say minors, give me an idea. Sure, yeah. So anyone under the age of – actually, I think it might be 21.
00:23:51
For special immigration juvenile status, it's people under the age of 21. Okay. We call it SIDGE as a shorthand, but special immigration juvenile status is –
00:24:00
the protected status that minors can seek in the U.S., it's usually you have to prove certain
00:24:07
things. So one of them is that you were neglected, abandoned, or abused by a parent in your home
00:24:13
country. So that can be you never had a relationship with your father and you don't know him and he's
00:24:19
no part of your life. Or it can be that your parents abandoned you. Sometimes there are really
00:24:23
extreme cases, which are a lot easier to kind of prove. And then there are others where it's like,
00:24:28
I don't know who my father is, and I'm going to be establishing custody in the U.S. with a relative.
00:24:35
Okay. So it's usually just one parent that you sort of have to prove that there was something abnormal about the relationship.
00:24:42
Okay. But the interesting thing that sort of came up in this case that I thought I could weigh in on was how important it is that people are bonded out hard stop, but especially in SIDGE cases.
00:24:55
And that's because SIDGE is one of these things where you and your lawyer are running around the city to all sorts of different courts to get documentation, to get judgments, to get rulings from judges so that you can bring it back to immigration court and show them that you're doing your due diligence.
00:25:14
For example, you usually have to go to family court, which is in a different borough sometimes, or it takes a really long time to get that hearing date.
00:25:22
I've worked SIDGE cases. It's taken years just to even get like a date for your application to be reviewed.
00:25:31
Let me ask you this. What happens if somebody, because if you said it takes years sometimes, what happens if the person ages out while this is going on?
00:25:40
That's a great question. We're often dealing with like hard deadlines. I made a video recently about appeals and how we sort of – the deadline is when the application is received, not when you submit it for certain things.
00:25:53
So deadlines are insane in any industry, but especially in immigration law. The stakes are so high.
00:25:59
So for SIDGE, it is when it's filed. So even if there's a backlog in the government agency that you're working with, as long as it's the date that your attorney files it, you're still below the requisite age.
00:26:11
Okay. That is – that's like such an important question because sometimes people are not sure about that.
00:26:17
Sure. So as long as the date that it was submitted is before you've aged out, then you should be okay in terms of moving forward with the case.
00:26:25
Exactly. And so in this case, the plaintiffs are suing ICE stating that they're being held without a bond hearing and that it violates their Fifth Amendment due process rights.
00:26:35
So they're not even given the opportunity to argue whether they should be bonded out of a detention center.
00:26:41
It is developing law. By the time this episode airs, the law might have changed. So the thing about this specifically is that there was a recent ruling in September where if you were not inspected upon arrival in the US, so let's say you arrived undocumented, you crossed the border illegally, you don't have standing to seek bond in court if you are detained.
00:27:08
So that is like a new thing. It's still being hammered out. It's being appealed.
00:27:12
Like it's going to work its way up through the courts. But right now, a lot of people are trying to get bonded out who crossed the border illegally.
00:27:20
And this new ruling, this new case law that came down in September has sort of messed with that.
00:27:26
So I have people reaching out to me for bond and I'm like, I honestly couldn't even file something for you if I wanted to or if I had time to.
00:27:33
So, I mean, I just wonder what, especially, you know, what happens to these people? I mean, especially talking about kids, somebody who's, the idea of somebody who's 10 years old is sort of in this purgatory. What happens to them?
00:27:49
It's a great question, and it's something that I think needs more attention, especially in the media. I think oftentimes immigration law is like, ooh, that's so complicated. Even lawyers will call me. This woman called me and she was like, the lady who does my nails just got arrested. I'm a lawyer, but I don't know how to do this stuff.
00:28:06
Like immigration law is like one of the most complicated areas of law. And it's because of the decentralized nature of the government agencies that we're working with.
00:28:14
I mean, when I'm having someone fingerprinted it gets sent to North Dakota, when I file their BIA appeals, it goes to Church Falls, Virginia.
00:28:22
Like it makes absolutely no sense. I think what sort of happens is, especially in these cases, like we're talking about child welfare here.
00:28:30
Like these are children being locked up and they're being detained for an indeterminate amount of time.
00:28:35
I think like public perception, public advocacy, people giving this any sort of energy or attention, I think they'll sort of start to see like how many awful things happen in detention centers, right?
00:28:49
Like how many lawsuits are there around sexual violence in detention centers? So this is happening on U.S. soil. I'm so glad to see that there is a lawsuit because I have to say, as an attorney, I'm really remiss reading the headlines that there aren't a lot of people talking about this. There aren't a lot of law firms taking up cases and filing lawsuits like this. There's been a chilling effect with the Trump administration where law firms are like, we are not going to be suing. We are not going after.
00:29:19
They're afraid. Like they are afraid that they're going to be. And what does it come down to? It comes down to people's wallets. It comes down to the pocketbooks of these big firms. And they're not going after the government agencies and really having some sort of like stand. Right. And it's awful because it's like, I don't know, it kind of gets to the heart of like being an attorney for me. It's like, why the fuck did you do this then? Like there are so many like faster ways to make money than being a lawyer. And you got into this to not help people, to not do the right thing.
00:29:46
Like, we're supposed to be officers of the court. We people who are supposed to be like ensuring justice is served or seeking out justice or accountability is held somewhere right And to then be like well it going to hit our bottom line We don want to beef with the Trump administration It like well then who the fuck are you
00:30:06
If you're not going to be doing that, then what are you doing? I wonder. I'm excited.
00:30:12
I'm going to be following this closely. I do think there's a strong chance that there will be some sort of at least partial relief
00:30:17
for the plaintiffs, mostly because the child welfare protections courts take that really
00:30:22
seriously. And there is sort of a pretty big due process concern in this case. I'm going to be watching this closely mostly because once there's a decision made, my day-to-day job as an attorney who handles bond hearings will change overnight.
00:30:42
It will be one of those rulings where I get to the courthouse and what I'm doing that day is something different than what I thought it was going to be.
00:30:48
And I live for that shit because I am a messy bitch and I do love a little bit of chaos every now and then.
00:30:55
I was born and raised by Alyssa, our most chaotic friend. And you're a Taurus. We're both Tauruses.
00:31:03
No, I know. Yeah, I love that. Let me ask you a question. Yeah. They're in these detention centers with-
00:31:09
Are they like segregated from adults? Yeah. That's actually a great question. Is anybody like-
00:31:15
I actually don't know because it is so impossible for attorneys to access clients who are being held at detention.
00:31:22
It's actually such a pain in the ass for me to even have a call with a client who's detained.
00:31:28
And I was part of a lawsuit with the ACLU a couple of years ago where we sued because I was like bored one summer during COVID.
00:31:35
So I like worked with them. I'm serious. And I basically like – You also had two broken feet.
00:31:40
I broke both my feet jogging. Yes. I was laid up. In casts, just – and what I would do is I would take a group of cases in different detention centers around the country and I would attempt to get in contact with my client and then document how difficult it was.
00:31:56
And it all – I was one of the lawyers. All that information got fed into this lawsuit.
00:32:00
And they sued and won. They were like, we – like, lawyers cannot access their clients.
00:32:04
Right. So it's really hard. And detention centers are intentionally outside of city limits.
00:32:11
They're really far away from a metropolis. to ensure that people cannot access legal counsel. They're usually in like a wasteland. I had to go
00:32:21
to one in, I think it was like an Alabama, and I had to fly into a different state. I didn't want
00:32:28
to drive. So I'm wealthy enough. I hired a car to drive me there because I was like, hang on,
00:32:33
I'm not going to be driving in the middle of Northern Georgia, Alabama. I had someone drive
00:32:40
me just to just for one hearing it was crazy yeah i'm i just keep thinking the idea of a kid
00:32:47
being alone it's terrifying um and you know and somebody needs to be the voice for these kids
00:32:55
right absolutely yeah i think the my mind my clients who are kids minors are the ones that
00:33:02
i end up being closest with as well because they need it like a social worker yeah more than yeah
00:33:08
totally because they need the help more than any i mean obviously anybody who's in a lot of the
00:33:13
times like the lawyer is like the parent has trusted the lawyer to like be there for that
00:33:17
person i don't know that there are enough people who are going to law school who get into it
00:33:24
because they really have this um deep down desire to um push the idea of like social justice or just
00:33:33
justice in general. No, it's true. That is true. I'm going to go to law school and I am going to
00:33:38
be a real estate lawyer because I want to make a ton of money. You know what I mean? I mean,
00:33:43
I think it's wonderful that you're thinking about it that way. And Michael is not alone. I know
00:33:49
there are a lot of attorneys. I'm also not perfect. No, no, no, no. Nobody thinks that.
00:33:54
It's very easy to lose your way. I have lost my way many times in life as a lawyer,
00:34:01
Like even after graduation where, you know, you do sort of get dazzled by the dollars or you don't want to take that pro bono case because you are too busy or like life happens.
00:34:12
Like people have families, like people get dogs, like shit goes down. Right. And so I just feel like, I don't know, I want other lawyers to feel like it's cool for me to be like, hey, Michael, how do I get involved?
00:34:27
How'd you get started? You know, I get a lot of messages like that where people are like, hey, like, how'd you get your first like pro bono case? How'd you learn how to do this stuff? Like, I wasn't always this psychopath that I am today.
00:34:40
No, I think you probably were always a psychopath, maybe not the one that you are today. However, I think.
00:34:45
Bellevue knocks on the door. I think that to your point, I think sometimes there comes a point in everybody's life where you're like, you know what?
00:34:54
I've done the thing that I'm going to do, right? Like I went to college or not or whatever.
00:34:59
And now I have a job and I'm just sort of like plugging away. I think about this a lot, right?
00:35:03
What is going to be my other thing that I do that is helpful? Yeah. I think there comes a moment in your life where you're like, oh, you know what?
00:35:13
I'm going to sit down. I'm going to think about how I can help. And for you as an attorney, you had this skill.
00:35:17
Yeah. You had this degree. And you were like, you know what? I now have the time.
00:35:23
Yeah. And I'm now inclined to do something. When we talk to Congressman Garcia later, let's ask him.
00:35:27
You should ask him. Okay. Like what you can do. Like what the differences are. Yeah.
00:35:31
Because I think that could be cool to hear from someone in a position of power in the
00:35:36
government of like what they think their constituents or just like civically engaged
00:35:40
Democrats can be doing to help a situation. What can we do to help? How can we be helping?
00:35:43
How do you help now? What do you do to – I mean, I know, like, you volunteer, you go to protests, like, you get involved.
00:35:50
You are like someone that I look to like you helped me find my way many times But I don know I think you a wealth of advice and and wisdom i mean i so not speaking about sort of like helping people who need but in terms of like wealth of advice and wisdom i
00:36:08
gonna tell you what i think no matter what whether you want to hear it or not right like and i am a
00:36:14
big i told you so person which is not my best quality but it is we are who we are right um and
00:36:22
And what's really funny is that I don't tell people I told them so nearly as often as I want to.
00:36:28
I keep it. I tamp it down. Yes, she does. I can't help it. I can't help it. You had fucking skywriting.
00:36:37
I told you so for me one day. Who the fuck do you think you are in on my show? Sorry.
00:36:43
I think I might get a tattoo. Wait. Oh, I would do that. I told you so. I've got a.
00:36:48
Yeah. Yeah. Mine could just be. She told me so. I told him so. In terms of helping, I will say that, yes, I go to protests and yes, I'm big on reaching out to my congressperson. I've sent letters to my governor, my mayor. But I will tell you that I struggle often with not knowing exactly what to do because I feel like what I want to do is something that I think will push the needle.
00:37:20
right yeah like what can i do who can i help even if it's like one person right who can i help it's
00:37:25
this feeling of helplessness that i think everyone is feeling right now 100 even like someone who i'm
00:37:31
very much in a position to do something right but you do it yeah i was out running i was uh i was
00:37:38
traveling and i was out jogging in my hometown and the on the corner of like the little main street
00:37:45
it in it's like this like little tiny little town on long island there were all these retirees who
00:37:51
had like no kings posters and they were protesting and i was talking to them it's the north fork
00:37:59
women for women fund niff whiffs that is their name okay i am not i'm not having a stroke niff
00:38:07
whiffs okay and they were telling me that they um they take shifts every day they're on that corner
00:38:13
working shifts protesting. I was like, this is amazing. I love this so much. And they were,
00:38:18
how do I like nicely describe? They were retired women of a certain age. Sure. That's how retirees.
00:38:25
Yeah. Well, there were no like young startup retirees who retired at 30. Right. But I feel like a lot of people, their age probably are feeling like they can't do anything or they
00:38:36
cannot get involved in it. It was just like such a cool example where I was like, look at these
00:38:41
baddies. Look at these icons. Yeah. Anyway, this has been Under Oath. Let's take a break.
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That's code CRY at G-R-U-N-S dot C-O. So Melissa I really excited because Congressman Garcia is joining us today That going to be great I can wait He the former mayor of Long Beach California Yeah And he the U representative from California 42nd district
00:42:08
He's been there since 2023. He's actually an immigrant himself from Peru. So it'll be really interesting to talk to him about ICE, what's happening there, what he's doing as a congressperson to sort of advocate for immigrant communities.
00:42:19
Also the first openly gay immigrant in Congress, which is very cool. He, I think he was undocumented at one point when he first emigrated. So it's a very cool, interesting sort of entree into American politics. What he's sort of working on, I think, will inform how Americans really engage with the news cycle, right? I mean, we're always talking about how can we ensure that people are civically engaged and have real next step action items.
00:42:48
I feel like a lot of what's happening in American democracy right now is like, well, it's just terrible.
00:42:55
Nothing to do. Just throw your hands up and give up. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it'll be cool to kind of talk to him and be able to really say like, hey.
00:43:02
Right. And I love the fact that, you know, I think it also helps when people can see themselves and their elected officials.
00:43:09
So the fact that he is an immigrant, the fact that he's openly gay, all those things I think sort of help put the information out.
00:43:19
I also love a fierce diva who's like, I'm going to let my identity govern how I enter the workplace, how I use my work.
00:43:26
I'm sick of this whole my life is separate from my job. It ain't. I'm a fierce diva in the courtroom as well as at home.
00:43:34
I'm winning arguments in my kitchen. Are you though? somebody call brad get brad on the phone i'm getting impeached in my fucking kitchen
00:43:41
get brad on the phone oh all right congressman all right shut up congressman's calling i gotta
00:43:45
stop talking welcome to brief recess congressman hey guys how are you hi congressman hi congressman
00:43:52
thank you for joining us i know that we actually just got the press release of what you've been
00:43:55
working on of the new legislation so why don't you take us in uh of what you've sort of been
00:44:00
focused on today it sounds like i mean obviously there's a lot going on and um the horrors of the
00:44:05
Trump administration never end. Today, we're really focused on and trying to really zero in
00:44:11
on just the horrific actions by the administration, certainly Secretary Noam, Stephen Miller,
00:44:17
and what's happening with ICE across the country. There are two things that we're looking at right
00:44:21
now. One is we've all been reading the reports of the now upwards of 170 US citizens that have now
00:44:30
been detained, in many cases sent to these facilities by ICE and by other federal agents,
00:44:38
and who essentially have stories of being in the centers for days and days without any access to
00:44:44
lawyers or family because they didn't have their ID. And these are U.S. citizens who are being
00:44:48
targeted, racially profiled, because of the color of their skin. And we know that now if ICE is doing
00:44:55
this to U.S. citizens. You can imagine how others are being treated at these centers and facilities.
00:45:01
And so we have a broad investigation going right now through oversight into Kristinoam,
00:45:07
into their actions across the country. But we're also especially partnering with the Senate and
00:45:12
the Senate's oversight team and Senator Blumenthal and us are specifically going to do a joint
00:45:18
bicameral investigation into what's happening to United States citizens across this country as well.
00:45:24
So, you know, what I've told folks is, look, what's happening to citizens is horrific.
00:45:29
But we're also reminding people that what's happening to non-citizens, they also have due process rights.
00:45:34
And the Constitution is so clear. Correct. And so we have a lot of work to do, but we were in L.A. with Mayor Bass making that announcement today.
00:45:42
And it's interesting you bring this up. I really wanted to talk to you about what specifically does that mean, right?
00:45:47
I think we oftentimes hear in the news, like, we're investigating this. We're looking into this.
00:45:52
Bicameralism. Could you get specific about like, what does that literal to do list look like when you get to the office? Right. Like walk us through it, because I think it's important for people to hear these words have almost become pointless to a lot of Americans. Oh, we're investigating. Oh, there's an oversight committee. Oh, we're going to be looking into it.
00:46:11
I think we've been used and abused in so many ways as Americans that these words have sort of like lost value.
00:46:18
So I want people to hear like exactly what you're doing because I know you, I know your team, I know you've been working on this.
00:46:24
And I understand it on like a granular level from the courtroom. But I think it's important for people to hear really what that means for you.
00:46:32
Absolutely. No, this is great because I also I love explaining kind of how it works.
00:46:36
Yeah. Process matters, right? Like what's the process? I think it's so important.
00:46:40
So there's two pieces of this which I think are important, and that is how and who is leading the investigations and then what we're actually trying to accomplish and do.
00:46:50
So let me start by saying, look, I've been the lead Democrat on the Oversight Committee.
00:46:56
The Oversight Committee in the U.S. House is the lead investigations committee that exists under our Constitution in the U.S. Congress.
00:47:06
And so obviously the job of Congress is oversight and oversight is where most of the major investigations end up.
00:47:13
Now, I'm a pretty newer member to the Congress. I was mayor of Long Beach, California for eight years.
00:47:19
I got to Congress a little over two years ago. And so I was not the most senior person to take on this job.
00:47:27
And I think in my pitch to the Democratic caucus, I said, look, we have to we have to do things differently.
00:47:35
We got to bring change. We need people to be more aggressive. We need to bring that fight that Republicans bring to these investigations.
00:47:42
And, you know, the pitched work, I'm the first sophomore to lead a committee in 100 years in the U.S.
00:47:51
And I mentioned that because I think what you said is really true, that oftentimes we will launch an investigation or folks will.
00:48:00
say they're going to hold folks accountable. And then it just gets lost in kind of Washington speak.
00:48:05
Right. Or we hear about it like two years later that they kind of found something,
00:48:09
but they weren't really. And it just, it does get kind of lost in the wash there.
00:48:12
It does. And that is not me first. Like I first, I'm an immigrant myself. And so this is very
00:48:18
personal to me. And it's something that I know I've lived through the experience. I've been
00:48:23
undocumented. I understand what the lived experience is. And then the second piece is,
00:48:28
I think people just should take, you know, I've been the lead on investigations now for about maybe three or almost four months, three, four months in the Congress for Democrats.
00:48:38
And I show people what we've just done on the Epstein files, for example. We are getting so much information out on the Epstein files because we're being aggressive and we're not waiting to be in the majority.
00:48:52
And so the way oversight works is when you are in the minority, so Democrats are in the minority in Congress, we have limited powers.
00:49:00
We don't have subpoena power. We don't have power to get any document we want or anyone from the committee.
00:49:04
But we still can't investigate on our own. And so that's what we're doing now. We're not waiting to be in the majority to investigate.
00:49:10
However, when we do win the majority in 2026, you can believe that we will be sending out subpoenas and getting information from Christian Noon, from Stephen Miller, from folks that are caught in harm, from Holman, just a variety of folks that we are interested in.
00:49:25
But the work has to start now. So that's a little bit about kind of why we have to bring new people into the party and at the table and leading these committees is because a new approach is also needed.
00:49:37
And then at the second piece is it is still in the minority. These investigations have enormous, the enormous ability to also help in many of the court cases that are happening. So we partner with folks.
00:49:50
That's just what I was going to say, papering the record, documentation so that court cases can move forward with that.
00:49:55
Documentation is so important to put out into the public record what's actually happening and what we know.
00:50:01
And so many of the successful cases that are happening right now in the courts actually reference or use many of the investigations or the documents that we are requesting of agencies to build the case.
00:50:14
And so it's all very important work. I wanted to ask you, because on this show, we really like to focus on ways that everyday Americans or other attorneys can get involved to do something.
00:50:27
I think so much of the Internet, so much of the news cycle is doom scrolling. It is getting lost in the weeds.
00:50:34
It is, you know, articles about literally how America is headed towards fascism with no actual action items on what people can do,
00:50:42
how they can get involved, things that they can do to flex their democratic muscles.
00:50:47
What would you, where do you need me, an immigration attorney, right? Like, what would your advice be to me, an immigration attorney, or to Melissa, who is
00:50:57
a civically engaged Democrat? Not an attorney, but, you know, I care very much about what's happening in my community.
00:51:03
I also come from an immigrant family. What can I do? Where do you need us? And I think it's so important that people really hear from leadership, right?
00:51:12
Like what can we be doing boots on the ground to support these efforts? So two things.
00:51:18
So one is obviously there's some – I'm going to talk specifically about what specifically you can do to help what we're doing on the investigation side.
00:51:24
So that's one piece of it. Broadly speaking, there – and I was just right now with maybe 50 kind of immigration community activists and leaders from different groups that are on the ground doing this work right now in Los Angeles.
00:51:38
And what – they are modeling just the behavior. We're talking about attorneys that are working with immigration groups. We're talking about immigration advocates that are trying to visit these detention centers. We're talking about folks that are doing rapid response on the ground. We're talking to folks that are just donors that are donating to kind of these rapid response networks.
00:51:57
I talked to faith leaders who are bringing in parishioners who are out communicating and working with families that are oftentimes even too scared to leave their home.
00:52:06
And so I have found that in every community, there is a group or people that are actually doing this work, whether it's a local church, whether it's a local immigration organization, whether it's a group of lawyers that are doing some pro bono work or working within the legal space.
00:52:24
There's a lot of ways to get involved broadly. And specifically, our oversight committee is doing two things where people can get directly engaged. One is in the next few weeks, you're going to hear, we'll put this out. We're going to be launching a massive kind of one-stop ICE and information tracker for the community.
00:52:46
That's great. That's so great. We need it. Absolutely. I need it. And it doesn't exist right now.
00:52:53
And so we want to make sure that we are tracking every instance of abuse and terror that is being right now put out and being done every day by ICE and by critical men and folks And so we working on building that right now And we have some groups that are assisting us with that as well So folks will be able to submit video information
00:53:15
to this tracker so that we can keep all of the information also from a national perspective.
00:53:21
That's so important. So as someone who gets so many people reaching out to me for help,
00:53:27
that is 90% of the things are just info sharing. You don't actually need an immigration attorney
00:53:33
half the time, but just people are just trying to figure out what's going on. And I think that's
00:53:37
really important. Exactly. So that's going to be a way for people to be able to communicate with us
00:53:41
directly and send us information so that we have it on and able to share it into the public record.
00:53:47
The second piece, and I know this sounds so, but you said it earlier, just for purposes of winning
00:53:55
in the courtroom, we have to not just win in, you know, and obviously in public opinion,
00:53:59
We have to put in the courtroom. And for us, we're in the courtroom and we have to document and we need to build the case. And it takes work and it takes putting all this.
00:54:09
It does. It really does for people who don't. And for us in Congress, it's critical for us to have all this information.
00:54:18
The second piece, which we announced today, is we're going to be launching some field hearings that will be happening in communities across the country.
00:54:26
Our very first one is going to be in Los Angeles. We'll be announcing the date hopefully here in the next week or so.
00:54:32
Yeah, that'd be great. Share it with us. We can put it out on the channel. It's great.
00:54:36
And the field hearing is going to be an opportunity for members of Congress in the community to
00:54:40
come together and listen to testimony from people in the community. And we're going to also provide ways where folks can do it in a way that we're keeping
00:54:52
their safety in mind as well. Yeah. But it's going to be an opportunity for there to be actual.
00:54:57
The stories and actions that are happening and information needs to be shared with us.
00:55:02
We're going to go into the community as well. And so the very first one will be in Los Angeles.
00:55:06
It'll be, I think, quite exciting. And so that's something also. That's incredible.
00:55:10
Yeah, definitely going into the communities is so important. I mean, so much of what happens in immigrant communities, from my experience, just as a guest, right, is word of mouth.
00:55:21
Yeah. Oh, for sure. That is the biggest way. I mean, as family coming from Haiti, that's how we learned about everything.
00:55:28
You heard it from someone's aunt, someone's cousin, a friend, church, et cetera.
00:55:32
So that's how you really get the word out. And I think when it comes from your own community, you tend to trust that information, right?
00:55:39
So thank you so much for joining us. I know you're the mayor of Long Beach. We've got a Long Beach here in Long Island.
00:55:45
It's a little bit different. But I wanted to say thank you. And the first openly gay immigrant congressman.
00:55:52
Is that right? That's right. That's all correct. Okay. All right. So who's your favorite drag queen in Long Beach, California?
00:55:59
Actually, we're going to Venmo her in your honor. Thank you. I'm going to Venmo her $100.
00:56:06
What's her name? Oh, Jules Long Beach. Jules Long Beach is my favorite drag queen in Long Beach.
00:56:10
Jules Long Beach. Okay. I can't wait for Jules Long Beach to wake up at 4 p.m. and be like, who the hell is this guy?
00:56:17
I am sending me Congressman Garcia, sending it under Congressman Garcia's name. So Jules Long Beach,
00:56:26
go find her on Venmo or Cash App and send her some money. Tip your drag queens. Thank you, Congressman, for joining us today.
00:56:33
Thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate your time. Will do. Thanks, guys.
00:56:37
Thank you. Take good care. Bye-bye. So Tales from the DM. Friends, please remember while Michael is a lawyer,
00:56:45
he is not your lawyer. Unless you want to hire me. I mean, that's a different thing.
00:56:49
I am. Everyone has a price. And I'm actually pretty cheap. Just ask any of my ex-boyfriends.
00:56:56
Ask me. This is Maggie from Ojai. And I was wondering if you could explain to me what's happening with banning of birth control pills in this country from a legal perspective.
00:57:10
i keep reading about it but i would love to know in a simple way what is actually happening and how
00:57:18
likely this is okay great question so this is uh this is an interesting one because it's a i always
00:57:25
feel bad when i have to answer these because it really is it depends half the time like it really
00:57:29
does depend on the state you're in yeah so right now birth control is not being banned in the u.s
00:57:34
I think there is, it's always like the threat of restricting contraceptives for women is always sort of a topic that continues to come up.
00:57:45
And it is very much these Republicans leap on any opportunity to sort of keep women down.
00:57:52
Yeah, for sure. And it always, anything we talk about, it is always poor people who experience the worst, right?
00:58:00
People who are experiencing poverty who- Right, who don't have access. Who don't have access.
00:58:05
It's a way to ensure that poor people remain poor and that the rich-poor gap grows.
00:58:10
So federal law and Supreme Court precedent still protect the right to get contraceptives There is a very famous Supreme Court precedent Griswold v Connecticut It from 1965 as well as Eisenstadt v Baird
00:58:26
It's 1972. So these are the Supreme Court precedents that protect a woman's right to contraceptives.
00:58:33
I don't know why I can't say that word. Because you don't have to use it. I guess because I've never gotten a woman pregnant and never even would be in a situation where that would happen.
00:58:40
Never? we can get into it we'll do that in the off we'll do that the b-sides okay brief recess
00:58:49
after dark we'll get into that the end scene 17 after 11 p.m i mean do you remember when vh1 vh1
00:58:59
or mtv it was like it was like at night it would become yes softcore porn yeah it was blue it was
00:59:06
It was a little, it was teal. It would go blue. Yeah. Anyway. Moving on. Are you okay?
00:59:15
We got it. We really got, I love when I gag our producer. I love when we get the producer going because they have to listen to me gab all day.
00:59:23
Get a hold of yourself. Basically, if contraceptives were under fire, it would get worked up through the court system and eventually go to the Supreme Court.
00:59:31
And those precedents would be argued against. Right. I would hope that in a situation like this, there would be extreme public outrage. Like this really would be, even right now with the ways in which Republicans are restricting access to abortion, it's going to be different. And that's right. A man went on the record and said the word abortion. I know it doesn't happen that often.
00:59:53
But, you know, they have to be really creative with how they do it, right? They say, oh, like the fire code or, oh, it's going to be a certain number are still within the state, even though they're like eight hours apart. Like they still have to be kind of creative thinkers when they're trying to do evil.
01:00:11
So the same would sort of happen with contraceptives and also like the sort of expansive nature of America.
01:00:19
We think about this a lot with the Commerce Clause, right? Like interstate commerce, the transportation of contraceptives across state lines.
01:00:26
I know of people who after the election were like stocking up on Plan B here in New York and like mailing it to southern states.
01:00:35
So it will be something interesting to watch. I haven't really seen it come up that much, but it is a very curious question.
01:00:43
Thank you, Maggie. It really is. I actually wonder what's going to happen, especially, you know, most of the sort of now the Republican Party and MAGA Republicans, they're very much on this, you know, we're doing this with God behind us.
01:00:58
And there is this theory for a lot of religions sort of across the board, right?
01:01:03
Like make lots of babies, make lots of babies. The last thing, I am happily childless, and maybe we'll add that to my next tattoo as well.
01:01:13
Childless by choice. But you have the choice. We come to this place to talk about, yes, exactly.
01:01:19
You have the choice, right? Oh, yes. I have all the choices. I'm a white man in a suit.
01:01:23
Right. I can get away with pretty much anything. Just about. Do you have kids? You've got a family?
01:01:28
Do you want to tell people about your life and your choices? I do not have any biological children.
01:01:33
I do have a stepdaughter who is lovely and she and I get along really well. And I love other people's kids.
01:01:39
That's who I am. I am perpetually Tati Misa, a.k.a. Auntie Misa. That's who I am.
01:01:47
I am the uncle. Well, my husband, Brad, is like the fun uncle with the kids. But I'm the uncle where, you know, if you are beefing at school or you need someone to help you buy beer.
01:01:59
Don't do that. You can't call me. I would never do that. Don't do that. absolutely never teach you how to roll a joint.
01:02:05
We do not abide underage drinking here. I only roll ankles, not joints. He's rolled a couple of ankles.
01:02:10
Both. Both. At the same time. No, you've never seen me wear pleasers. Hi, this is Daisy from Los Angeles.
01:02:18
Hi, Daisy. First of all, voiceover actress, right? Love, right? And Daisy's a really good name.
01:02:23
Whether or not it's your real name or not, I don't know. I imagine Daisy, what do we think Daisy looks like?
01:02:27
immediately in my head Daisy for me is a Latina right I think and I think she's got her chola makeup down
01:02:38
I love she's from the South Bronx yeah yeah yeah I think well she said she's from LA
01:02:46
so I think she's from South LA okay yeah I don't know the neighborhoods in LA that well okay but that's who I think
01:02:53
I think Daisy is fierce and I think she is got a hoop earring. No, I think that's right. I think we could open like a whole like booth
01:03:01
at a state fair of us just like based on people's voices, guessing what they look like.
01:03:05
So maybe submit a question and we'll guess what you look like. Anyway, I feel like there's so much in the news about Trump trying to pardon P. Diddy or
01:03:16
Ghislaine Maxwell Not the Diddy shout out Not again No I also wonder why they keep on saying that Glaine Maxwell I feel like everybody mispronouncing her name I had an aunt who that was her name Oh you did
01:03:32
Yeah, and that's not how you say it. How do you say it? Ghislaine. I don't know who Ghislaine is.
01:03:39
I'm speechless. Haitians all over are like Ghislaine. Ghislaine. Ghislaine. Ghislaine is such like a clunky, flat-footed.
01:03:47
Right. Yeah, we've got a big-ass flat foot stomping the street. It's just like, but go ahead. Sorry, Daisy.
01:03:58
And I'm wondering, is there any interesting cases that previous presidents have ever pardoned before or really controversial ones in the past?
01:04:07
Oh, hell yeah. Or are these particularly insane? I mean, to try and compare American history to what's happening right now is impossible.
01:04:15
This is not really. We are sort of living in like the different timeline. None of this is real. This is all a simulation.
01:04:25
There have been a lot of pardons in the past that were like, I mean, pardons are always a little bit controversial.
01:04:30
I remember Chelsea Manning's pardoning. People were like, oh, my God, but the Arab Spring.
01:04:33
And like there's always sort of like the opposition is always saying, you know. And it's usually one of those things that a president does on their way out.
01:04:41
Yes. Yeah. Like Roger Stone. Trump did that in 2020. Right. Paul Manafort. Michael Flynn was in 2020.
01:04:49
There was a whole sort of like crop of controversial pardons. I mean, Biden pardoned his son.
01:04:56
Yeah. Like that was. Dad, if you're watching, you better pardon my ass if you're ever in office.
01:05:00
I want a pardon. I might send my kids to the clink. What'd you do? Just out here sullying the family name.
01:05:09
Tell the story of when your dad was on a jury. We might not have enough time for this.
01:05:16
We're going to have to wait for the next episode. We'll do it next time. Okay. Well, yes, there are a lot of examples of this happening throughout history.
01:05:23
None of them are as insane as none of them have anything to do with human trafficking of minors.
01:05:30
So that is sort of a wild thing if Trump does decide to pardon, say her name. Ghislaine Maxwell.
01:05:37
Thank you so much. So that would be unprecedented in such a way that we would probably need a new word.
01:05:43
That is a synonym for unprecedented. That hasn't been invented yet. anyway those were the weirdest things people sent me today thank you so much congressman
01:05:51
garcia for coming on the show today i had a great time talking to you i always have a good time
01:05:56
i'm glad we got we got it all on the record about diddy trial maybe we'll do a whole diddy episode
01:06:01
maybe thank you for watching brief recess i'm michael foote and i'm melissa malbranch i'll see
01:06:05
your ass in court this has been an exactly right production recorded at i heart studios hosted by
01:06:13
me, Michael Foote. And me, Melissa Malbranch. Our producer is CJ Ferroni. This episode was edited
01:06:18
by Nicholas Gallucci. Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain, and our guest booker is
01:06:23
Patrick Kottner. Our theme song was composed by Tom Breifogel with artwork from Charlotte
01:06:27
Delarue and Vanessa Lilac, with photography by Brad Obono. Brief Recess is executive produced
01:06:33
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01:06:37
at Department of Redundancy Department or on TikTok at Michael Foote. And I'm on both Instagram
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