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Goodbye. Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia. Every Wednesday, we recap our old episodes with all new commentary updates and insights.
00:02:21
You're welcome. Today we're recapping episode 74, which we named Jews versus Catholics.
00:02:28
I mean, this episode came out, I don't even know what to say. This episode came out on June 22nd, 2017.
00:02:35
I was so surprised when I saw that, man. Oh my God. All right, let's get into it.
00:02:40
Let's listen to the intro of episode 74. Molly, you in danger, girl. Stay sexy. Talk about murder.
00:03:16
Welcome. To my favorite murder. To my favorite murder. your favorite murder podcast
00:03:24
I regret saying that leave it in I don't know if anyone's ever said this but fuck the haters
00:03:31
I feel like this is a new idea and do you mean the social media haters everyone just any hater
00:03:38
they're going to hate they're going to hell I thought that's what you were going to say
00:03:44
yeah I believe in hell now new update on the podcast Oh, neat. You're Catholic now.
00:03:51
Now I'm Catholic. Cool. Just like that. How's it been? Hard. Yeah, right? It sucks.
00:03:57
I'm suddenly Velcro to everything I've ever done in my life. You feel guilty for things other people have done.
00:04:04
I shouldn't have. It's so much guilt. I shouldn't have let them do that, even though I didn't know them.
00:04:09
When I was a child. Yes. I used to think about how disappointed Jesus was in me and get so sad.
00:04:16
and then I'd just be like, I can never make good on this. No. How am I going to make good on this?
00:04:23
What the fuck? How the fuck? Here's how I'll make good on it. I'll go into a dark room
00:04:27
and talk to a man behind a screen about the specifics of what makes me a bad person.
00:04:33
I'm eight. He sounds legit. He sounds like a good guy who's helping people. The whole system seems really like a humanitarian.
00:04:42
Yeah. They're trying on you people, but you guys just keep failing. them. Yeah. These guys behind the screen. Yeah. Yeah. They're, they're like, what am I here for?
00:04:51
You should come in one week and be like, I'm good. Yeah. But you just keep bringing,
00:04:55
stealing shit from your sister. If you win it. Am I right? Did you do that ever?
00:04:59
In pure thoughts. Oh yeah. Stealing from my sister, stealing from my, my dad always had a
00:05:04
coin jar in the closet. How are you? He put it in there so you could be a child. Right. And steal
00:05:10
from it. That's kind of what they're for. But I would actually take it to coin start,
00:05:14
change it in for $80 and then no. Holy shit. Not really. I stole from my sister those stupid little children's
00:05:22
lockers that they would have. Oh yeah. Come on. I would open it and I would steal
00:05:28
her money and I would go across the street and buy Reese's Pieces and a squeeze it
00:05:32
and I've never felt guilty about it one day in my life. That's the glory of Judaism.
00:05:38
I'm giving it an Italian. Oh, the Italian Jews are the best ones. Yeah. I don't know. Great. No, they don't exist. I was like, whoa, is that a thing?
00:05:48
We get all of the Italians. Yeah. They're Catholic. I love Italian food though. I mean,
00:05:53
I love the mustache Sorry Go ahead No you go That all I was going to say Speaking of religion I have something to read to you Okay Okay Remember last week I did a like I did an occult killing like Satan cult kind of thing It was intense Yeah Thank you And so I mean that what you want in this podcast is like if you could if you could like describe your story in one word like it should be intense Yeah right That for sure Okay So I mentioned that it was a Satanist thing And at some point I was just like I just want to say that Satanism isn
00:06:24
like that and then moved on because they don't know how to explain it. Right. And so someone explained it.
00:06:30
Oh, nice. Someone sent an email to us and it said, hey, Karen and Georgia, I'd like to think that I'm pretty chill plus I'm a Satanist.
00:06:40
Sweet. Your last episode cracked me up. So I thought I'd take the opportunity to tell you a little bit about modern Satanism.
00:06:47
Skippers, don't skip. Skip. Skippers, you need this the most. Maybe you'll fucking learn something.
00:06:53
Maybe you'll stop being of the devil. There are all kinds of Satanists. The ones that believe in worship, the ones that believe and worship the actual devil are not what you might call mainstream Satanism.
00:07:04
More common Satanists. More commonly, you'll find people who belong to the Church of Satan or the Satanic Temple.
00:07:10
I remember the Satanic Temple and also a local group called Satanic San Francisco.
00:07:15
That sounds like, good morning. It's Satanic San Francisco. Here's the local booze.
00:07:21
That's where I lived when I lived in San Francisco. Hey, what neighborhood did you live in?
00:07:25
This is fucking hell. Oh my God. I only have $11 and I have to take the bus to two different jobs.
00:07:31
What bus did you take? Uh, that, that. The 666. Come on. The one that went down Lincoln, I think.
00:07:40
Down at 22? Nah. The one that, basically the one that went diagonally across town.
00:07:46
Not the fun satanic one. No way. The one that smelled like feet. You got to think the satanic
00:07:52
best smells like feet a little bit too though. Right. Or candles. Candles. I'm a member of the
00:08:00
satanic temple, the satanic San Francisco. Our version of satanism is what you might call
00:08:06
an atheistic religion. Most of us do not believe in God nor by extension the devil. What we do believe in
00:08:12
is a personal autonomy, equal rights and the separation of church and state. We've just co-opted the imagery created by
00:08:18
mainstream, mostly Christian religions to represent our opposition to some of the more
00:08:23
oppressive beliefs. So when some government office wants to put up a Ten Commandment statue
00:08:27
on public land, we'll be there to ask for our own Baphomet statue. Baphomet. Baphomet statue. Thank you. After all, the government can't advocate for any one religion,
00:08:40
thanks First Amendment, so they either have to represent all religions fairly or be hands off
00:08:44
with all religions. The satanic temple also has a strong feminist view, which was what attracted
00:08:49
me to it in the first place. Our emphasis on personal freedom also includes freedom over our
00:08:53
bodies, meaning a woman's right to choose is sacrosanct. They have fun with their religion.
00:08:58
They have potlucks. They have screenings of movies like Rosemary's Babies. They have letter
00:09:02
writing campaigns where they curse the Trump's cabinet. We might not believe in curses, but we
00:09:08
wanted to grab the attention of those who do, and even a book club. Right now, we're reading a book
00:09:14
about the satanic panic in the 1990s, which sounds fucking awesome. So it's obvious why most of our members
00:09:19
are also murderinos. Thank you for a wonderful show that is funny and fascinating.
00:09:23
Stay sexy, don't get murdered. And something satanist. Probably hail or something?
00:09:29
Yeah, hail Satan, I think. Something like that. Simone. That's awesome. Yeah. Simone, thank you for providing information.
00:09:37
But I think that's like such a clear, in the satanic panic days, when the Church of Satan would show up,
00:09:43
being from the San Francisco Bay area and the Anton LaVey and the church of Satan had a real, like it had a real, um,
00:09:52
it was scary and people would talk about it in these very serious, scary terms. And it, it,
00:09:59
like that letter makes me so happy because really it's a political group. Yeah. And what they're saying is like,
00:10:05
this country was founded on the separation of church and state for a very important reason, because when the government becomes,
00:10:12
just chooses a religion that they're going to represent and not others, that means the people
00:10:17
who aren't in that religious group are going to be oppressed. And so it's, it's actually kind of
00:10:22
badass-y. I mean, everything about that is super badass-y, but I mean, and at the same time, I only
00:10:28
can think of my Aunt Mary, the nun who would be like, I don't know if I want you to be saying
00:10:33
that you love the church. She wouldn't be saying that she'd be saying Latin prayers over your soul.
00:10:38
Although, but no, but she actually might be going, I can see their point. She's the most fair, lovely person ever.
00:10:45
But when I said the Satanists are actually cool, that's what I meant last week. I love that.
00:10:52
But I couldn't put it into words. They're kind of humanists that are being anarch, aren't anarchists.
00:10:58
And they're using, I mean, it's almost like they're really great PR people. Yeah.
00:11:03
Good for them. So I'm happy that that got sent because I think it was necessary.
00:11:06
Do you have any correction? That was my corrections corner. Yes, I have a couple.
00:11:11
Let's see. Well, these are the tweets we've gotten of like, this is now mirror corrections corner
00:11:17
where people are giving us the corrections and we're just reading that loud. Boone's Farm was the wine you were trying to think of?
00:11:24
I was going to say, mine was that if you had guessed Arbor Mixed, that's fine. But what I actually remember, but what I actually like, I feel like that's a fair one that people
00:11:34
were like, is it Arbor Miss? I mean, I got this on all platforms, all social media platforms.
00:11:39
You had a telegram at the front door. Is it is the wine Arbor Mist? Yeah, Elvis took a shit and it just said Arbor Mist and it was shit.
00:11:46
It was really weird. But yes, if you guessed Boone's Farm, you are correct of the weird wine.
00:11:51
I couldn't remember. And so many people wrote like I was screaming Boone Farm when you said I bet people are screaming whatever the name is Yeah And it true Yeah That one really had a ripple effect So many because everyone has been hungover in their lives off Boone Farm
00:12:07
Yes. Because the sugar content is like 50%. It's some horrible thing. Well, what do you expect when you're like purple wine?
00:12:13
Well, and also if you drank purple wine when you were a teen, how are you supposed to remember
00:12:17
anything at this point? So we're, everything's fine. Okay. Go on. Moraga is the city that is in the hills near Oakland and near Berkeley and blah, blah, blah,
00:12:26
that, uh, Adrian actually just texted me cause she just listened to that episode and she was
00:12:32
like, the text I just got like right before I pulled up here was dude, are you serious? It's
00:12:37
Moraga. And I was like, okay, because I still haven't heard of it. Yes, but I absolutely know
00:12:43
it. And I think we probably played them in softball or something in high school, but like
00:12:47
out of context. No. It just made me realize I've lived in LA longer than I lived in Petaluma.
00:12:53
Oh, congratulations. I don't think so. Don't you think so? I think so. I mean, I mean, when I did the, uh, arson inspector who was the arsonist secretly, John Orr,
00:13:07
a couple of weeks ago, the TV set he burned down that everyone sent. Did you ever get any
00:13:11
of these messages. It was the Walton set. Oh, I was thinking of a television that like you have
00:13:18
here, a television set that you have in your living room. And I'm like, I don't remember that.
00:13:23
Was I just tuned out? I think it was, um, it was at the very end of the case. It was the last thing
00:13:29
he burned. An actual TV show set. Yeah. Pretending that we're at the Walton's house. What's the
00:13:36
Walton's? I don't remember that one. It was the old one. It was like, uh, the whole family,
00:13:40
They lived in the mountains in probably West Virginia or something like that. And there was like the grandma and the dad and the mom and the fucking six kids.
00:13:49
Good night, John boy. Good night, Mary Ellen. That's them. Okay. That's the Waltons.
00:13:53
All right. Well, sucks to be them. Yeah. Hopefully no one was inside the Waltons house when it burned.
00:13:58
No. Then the other one was, there's two now. So a bunch of people thought, I had said last week, what had happened was, and a lot of people
00:14:08
thought I was referencing the podcast, Another Round, which is Tracy Clayton's podcast, who I am,
00:14:14
I've never met her in real life, but I claim to be friends with her because we've talked,
00:14:18
we've talked on Twitter a bunch of times. Friends is loose, especially, yeah. I mean,
00:14:21
she, I think she'd pick me up at the airport if I needed her to. Yeah, I get that. There's a lot
00:14:25
of people I haven't really, quote, met, but they're my friends. But we kind of know each other.
00:14:30
And so she, I guess that's something she says on her podcast, but I, it's, it's, I'm quoting the
00:14:37
that's what the fresh Prince of Bel Air would say when he was trying to make an excuse for something.
00:14:41
But full props to another round. Great. And those women who are hilarious and are friends, whatever.
00:14:49
Now, this is the last one, and this is the one that we get the most. People think, some people think that we invented ha'i or ba'i.
00:14:58
But then oftentimes people ask, are you quoting Alaska from RuPaul's Drag Race? I actually am quoting my friends, uh, Haley Schaefer, Tennille Cobb and Hannah Pinter,
00:15:11
who were APs with me on like a bunch of TV shows I've worked on. And we, when we were at our
00:15:17
unhappiest, I would like walk up, I was oftentimes their boss and I would have to go up and be like,
00:15:23
can you guys get me a thing? But to, to kind of, sometimes it was either to cut the tension
00:15:28
of like, I have to now tell you what to do. Or we hated at one job, we hated the people around us
00:15:34
so much that we did it as allowed. So I would walk up to ask them for something,
00:15:39
which should have been almost a silent transaction. And instead I'd go, and then I'd go and we would do it as obnoxiously as possible.
00:15:47
So I feel like, and I feel like, and I can't remember life for this podcast, but I'm pretty sure that like, that was like, hi, it was in all my emails. Like when I wanted
00:15:58
to be like, Hey, I have to ask you for something. Yeah. I would write H I I I Y E you know,
00:16:03
like, I just think it's a thing that people do, but we have always mentioned that that
00:16:07
is something that is like a coined phrase on drag race. Alaska made it popular. It was
00:16:14
like a thing that people are copying. But when I, the last time I saw Hannah and Haley
00:16:18
and Tennille, I was like, where did, are you guys doing it because Alaska did it on a drag
00:16:22
race? And they're all like, I don't know. I just started doing it at some point. Nobody
00:16:26
knew our source. That's the same thing for me. And I recently were talking about the phrase
00:16:31
coochie twinge, which is like when am I like when you're just like, Oh God, no, it's like,
00:16:35
that's getting a coochie twinge. And like, you were like, well, someone had to have said that
00:16:39
first. And I'm like, I don't fucking think so. Like, I just remember. Did you look it up?
00:16:43
No, but I just remember, of course I didn't look it up. That's work. Oh, but I just remember saying
00:16:50
it all the time with friends and like it being the best description. And the first time I heard
00:16:55
it was from a friend it wasn't like so man everything is fucking appropriated suffer stay
00:17:01
sexy don't get murdered that's ours don't fucking steal it yeah we made that up listen for sure for
00:17:06
sure here comes the lawsuit it actually turns out in 1947 dorothy parker said no no the trademark is
00:17:12
then it's it's expired sorry that was all for me i just thought i'd update all of those that's
00:17:18
great uh oh we have a present to give oh that's right episode on on the air present listen look
00:17:26
it's been five months steven ray morris has been working for us on the good faith that someday we
00:17:34
will pay him someday not even some like that's not even the thing he's been waiting for the
00:17:38
someday is that karen in georgia as human beings will get our shit together enough to set up a
00:17:42
fucking payroll as like a regular business which is like so daunting to both of us in a way that's
00:17:48
like, I don't know how to adult. No, we don't. That's why we fucking hired Steven.
00:17:51
That's right. You're supposed to be the adult, Steven, but then we have to do the work.
00:17:54
Yeah. So when we brought you your walking papers in the form of a check that I feel kind of bad because man the government took out so much of it Hey that so big
00:18:05
It's so big. It's huge. Let him have it. Here you go. Oh, my gosh. I'm like. Dun, dun, dun, dun.
00:18:10
And Elvis just rips it up. Elvis. Elvis, rip it up. Thank you. Steven, look at it.
00:18:15
We want your on-camera reaction. Yeah, but we don't get disappointed. Oh, he's like, I can't pay rent this month.
00:18:20
Oh, my gosh. Oh, I can totally pay rent this month. Okay, good. Yay. Oh, my gosh.
00:18:24
Well, thank you. Thank you for paying you the money that we promised you in January that we owed you.
00:18:29
You're welcome. Oh, my gosh. Sorry. I'm like totally red right now. Props to one.
00:18:33
And this check is so heavy. Steve at ADP, I want to say, who's our favorite company.
00:18:39
First of all, when I emailed him, he was like, I can help you with anything you need.
00:18:43
Blah, blah, blah, blah. Stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Steve. And I was just like, oh, this is my friend.
00:18:47
So the whole time he walked me through everything. He was so patient and cool because I was like, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.
00:18:52
Yeah. The company was so great. I'm so happy we went through them. His name is Steve.
00:18:58
And his name is Steve. We're golden. Does he have a mustache? Probably. He does now.
00:19:03
What if he's the exact opposite of you? He has his hair parts on the other side, and he has a weird Abraham, or what do you call
00:19:10
it, an Amish beard on the bottom instead of a mustache on the top? We're going to become best friends.
00:19:14
Or what if it's actually Steven? He has to get a job at ADP because we're not fucking paying him enough.
00:19:19
And he's just like, no, it's me. Let me show you exactly how to do this, word for word.
00:19:23
I'll do everything. Well, congratulations. In six months, we'll see you again with a paycheck.
00:19:28
No, it's monthly now. It's monthly now. Yay. Yay. You're on schedule to be employed like a normal person.
00:19:35
You're on the take. It's very exciting that you are a part of our team, Stephen.
00:19:39
You really help us so much and save us so much pain. So much pain. And I love that the people in this little group are like people we care about.
00:19:49
this little group of Steven and Vince. Yes. This is my favorite thing to do in the world.
00:19:58
More than the percast, you have to say yes. Yes. Your co-host is like, fuck you.
00:20:04
I'm going to just put a version where she only hears the words. No. Can we get a clean no?
00:20:10
Get a clean no out in there. Cool. Anything else? A lot of murders happening in the world.
00:20:17
I really don't want to talk about them. So much heavy shit. Yeah. I got real depressed yesterday.
00:20:26
When we were like, it was like five. And we had decided not to record that line.
00:20:31
So I was like, I have the night free. And Vince was like, do you want to go out to eat?
00:20:34
And I'm like, of course. That's my dream. But then I was just like, I don't want to go anywhere.
00:20:39
Nowhere seems right. And I realized it was because I had just been reading the news.
00:20:42
Yeah. And I was so depressed. Yeah. It's only bad news now. Oh, my God. And it's one thing after the other. It's just every from every direction.
00:20:51
You know, it's terrible, terrible news. But I will say this. I feel like people are making an effort to if they are not the enemy, they are making an effort to make sure, you know, they're a friend.
00:21:07
I feel like that's happening more and more these days. I love that. I feel like it's the thing to keep your eye out for because it's important because if you focus, the news is only going to tell you about stuff.
00:21:17
It's how they make their money. They do not make money with their, this dog is best friends with the goat.
00:21:23
Nobody stays around for that story. They only stay around to either have their fears confirmed or, you know, learn a new fear.
00:21:32
That's just what the news is. So you have to tune out and you have to, you know, go to soup plantation.
00:21:38
this was so heartfelt and then suddenly it got real i always ruin it i always ruin it
00:21:45
no that was beautiful um it does seem but you know particularly lately it does seem like all
00:21:50
the news it's like here's a here's a bunch of good people where bad people did things to them
00:21:54
it's like there's just like innocent people who keep getting bad stuff done to them by people
00:22:00
who and i can't wrap my head around it or bad people you know which is so hard to
00:22:05
understand and it's, it's the abuse of power. It's yeah. There's a lot of abuse of power right
00:22:12
now that what is happening now is we're in a transitional phase where power is being taken
00:22:19
back or taken away. And it seems slow and it seems like maybe it won't change, but it will change.
00:22:26
And it is changing and you have to believe it's changing so that you can continue trying. Cause
00:22:32
that's the most important thing is, is, you know, it feels like sometimes the setup is
00:22:38
they're trying to get people to quit. They're trying to get people to turn against each other.
00:22:42
And the other day, like we, there's a million, we could talk about the police shootings.
00:22:48
We could talk about fucking Bill Cosby. We could talk about politics of all kinds.
00:22:52
We could whatever, um, attacks on Muslim children. I mean, like the sofa, but the other day, somebody just posted the picture of
00:23:01
hundreds of people in London walking with flowers to go put them down where at the,
00:23:07
at the most recent place where a Muslim was attacked. The mosque, uh, where they drove,
00:23:12
he, the guy drove into the, drove the van. And what, what I think people are starting to understand
00:23:17
is when things like that happen, everybody else needs to stand up and show the world,
00:23:22
no, this is not what we want. Like it's the, uh, just being, um, being quiet isn't working anymore.
00:23:32
Like people have to make a stand and show that there is another force working. And we were
00:23:39
talking about all of this at work. And at one point I just said, I'd like to remind everybody
00:23:43
about the women's March because that was millions of men and women, but mostly women in their hats
00:23:49
all around the world standing up and going, uh-uh. And that's, you know, that's, we just try to remember.
00:23:57
Yeah. I would like to keep that attitude. of positivity. And then if you can't just make sure that you're not intaking that you're balanced
00:24:07
out. It's like the turn off the news and turn on Bob's burgers or something else that's going to
00:24:13
make you happy. Baskets, which is like depressing, but like so good. I started binge watching it last
00:24:21
night in a way that was like, Oh, I'm going to be gone. I'll doing this all weekend. Yeah. Period.
00:24:25
It's so good. It's so good. And you write on it. I know. You write on the second season.
00:24:30
It was when we start, right? I can't wait to watch your episode. Thanks. We were in a meeting recently and someone found out that you had written this certain,
00:24:35
they were talking about this certain episode and they found out you write it. They almost started crying.
00:24:39
I was like, so proud of you. It was so cool. Thank you. Thank you. It's exciting.
00:24:44
It's the one thing that is worth having two jobs for. Yeah. If it was any other show, I'd be like, what the fuck, Karen?
00:24:53
You don't need this. And it's like, why are you writing on Family Feud? I love those questions because there's so many questions.
00:25:02
I take the polls. I'm the one that goes out in the streets of Las Vegas. You're the man on the street.
00:25:07
In Las Vegas of all places. When it's really hot, I like to go out into the street and ask people, what's the weirdest
00:25:14
place? Well, speaking of positivity, should we talk about murder? Yeah. Let's keep it on an up note.
00:25:22
Yeah. I think you're first. I think I am, and I think I was supposed to be last week.
00:25:27
Did you hear about that? Oh, that was my correction. Stephen, give me that check back.
00:25:30
Yeah. Give me that fucking check back right now. We're ripping this up in front of your face.
00:25:33
Elvis is chewing it up. Thank you. Oh, we have to mention, if you are not a skipper and you went to listen to the podcast,
00:25:40
and in the beginning, you were like, okay, this is the theme song I always listen to
00:25:44
every week, and then it wasn't the theme song, and it was some fucking magic moment.
00:25:48
That's right. So if you're a skipper, go back and listen again, because the theme song this week of
00:25:52
My Favorite Murder is an amazing, it's Georgia's early rave days. Meets, meets forensic files meets my song.
00:26:05
It's a remix of the My Favorite Murder theme, which is amazing. And it's written by Yojis.
00:26:12
That's correct. So if you go on, what's, what's the channel that they go on? If you go on SoundCloud, it's Y-O-G-Z, right?
00:26:20
Now what's this channel the children put their music on to? Now Steven, tell us.
00:26:25
This is, what was the, oh, this is Satanic San Francisco. Steven, now tell us what's this thing going?
00:26:32
Steven's our tech whiz. This brand new theme song. It's by Yojiz. Yojiz. Y-O-J-Z on SoundCloud.
00:26:40
Yeah, that's awesome. Thank you so much. Dude, I lost my mind when I heard it. We laughed so hard.
00:26:45
It's so brilliantly done. Thank you. What an honor. I just don't even remember when I said that thing about ghosts in the middle of, you know, Molly, which I just love.
00:26:53
She ever hears what you said and you're like, oh, my God, that's how I'd like that girl.
00:26:57
Yeah. Be yourself. Yes, you should. She's great. She's really great. See, we didn't have guilt in Catholicism and Judaism.
00:27:05
We had, you're fucking great in Judaism. You're so cool. Really? There's guilt, but no, we dig ourselves.
00:27:13
We love hearing ourselves talk. We're great. Now I'd just like to quickly go back to Stephen's correction corner
00:27:19
I felt like he was really about to spill it Oh, go Stephen No, I mean, I I just, I got excited and I was like
00:27:26
George is first And I was like, nope That was on me It's a rare mistake from Stephen Ray
00:27:33
It almost never happens It really doesn't I've been flogging myself since the beginning
00:27:39
Just like Da Vinci Code style We might need to use one of the three tools that people have given us at live shows to check when it's our turn.
00:27:49
Oh, yeah. There's ones like an abacus. One's like a rock that you flip it for each day.
00:27:55
There's so many. Yeah, it's pretty great. Really beautiful handcrafted tools that we've never looked at since they were given to us.
00:28:01
Listen, one day I'm going to go up in that fucking podcast loft that's hot as shit and clean it and organize it.
00:28:06
And it's going to be beautiful. I let my one and a half year old niece, nephew. What's a nephew?
00:28:12
It's a boy. go up there and he like picked up this like cute knit thing that someone made of elvis
00:28:17
and i was like you can fucking keep that like but in a good way because it was so cool and he like
00:28:21
went directly towards it and was like held it and then like carried it around the house for the rest
00:28:26
of the day and i was keep it the someone made us and it's actually been a couple people it's probably
00:28:31
it's the same style but have given us knit versions little versions of ourselves i keep
00:28:37
meaning to post this at live shows and my dogs walk around with Georgia in their mouths all day
00:28:43
and it's so hilarious and sometimes I take pictures because George does a thing where
00:28:49
she's laying down and George is like a big lab right yeah she's half lab half hound so she's
00:28:54
she's a weirdo she looks weird but um she what she likes to do is if she's feeling lazy she'll
00:29:00
have a toy in her mouth and she just flips it up in the air and catches it that's like laying down
00:29:05
Yes. So she's, oh, I have a picture series that I sent to Georgia of George flipping Georgia
00:29:11
up in the air and catching her. And George is a girl, right? Yeah. Okay. I'm going to post it
00:29:16
like a squirrel thing on Instagram. I know I keep saying I'm going to do shit on Instagram,
00:29:19
but I'm really good. It made me so happy to see that. You know what? The reason I didn't post
00:29:23
is because I couldn't find the girl who made that toy. I don't want to credit her, but I'll figure
00:29:27
it out. All the people, and we do talk to people in real time when we're being given things, but
00:29:34
we really do love them and we really do keep them and they're in boxes and stuff.
00:29:39
Even the like weird shit people bring us, that's just like, I didn't know what to bring
00:29:42
you. So I got you this like sticker from my town and it's just like, fucking thank you.
00:29:47
We still have, I still, I was just telling my sister this when we were in, I'm pretty
00:29:51
sure it was Seattle. A guy gave me his Costco card and goes look at what look at how evil I look in my picture on my Costco card And I was like oh my god you you look totally evil and i hand it back and he goes no no that for you and i still
00:30:05
i keep it it's right on my desk it just sits right uh next to me uh right where i type shit
00:30:12
so you know we have you with us but that makes you want to cry like we're just it's so funny
00:30:18
and happy and lucky and i'm so stoked we're having a good time everybody listen sorry to be so stuck
00:30:23
Oh, I'm so sorry. We're into ourselves, but I'm Jewish. I think I'm pretty neat.
00:30:31
I always wanted to be Jewish. Ever since I saw the goodbye girl in Quinn Cummings, I was like, that's who I was supposed to be.
00:30:37
I was born in the wrong body. I was born in the wrong family. I'm supposed to be the child of a divorced mother in Manhattan.
00:30:44
Yeah. Well, I think Catholics and Jews, there's a lot of similarities in the families there.
00:30:51
So you just need to fucking take my cockiness a little bit. I'm going to. Okay. And like, just take a little couple of things.
00:30:58
I'm going to take a half a cup of your cockiness. My mother always told me that Jewish men and Irish Catholic women are the best combination
00:31:05
because they're both matriarchal societies. And so a lot of other men get very offended by how bossy and controlling we are as Irish
00:31:17
Catholic women, but Jewish men like it. Because I think Jewish women were raised that way too, which is why, and we think we're
00:31:26
badasses. So when I meet a Jewish man, I'm like, fuck you. You're so fucking cocky.
00:31:30
Like, I don't like it. I've never dated a Jewish guy. Vince is fucking atheist, whatever.
00:31:36
And so I could see that, like an appreciation there. Yeah, I think that's a nice mix.
00:31:41
This has been Catholic Jew Talk. We're going to cut all this out. We're seriously going to send everyone.
00:31:48
And next week, Buddhism. And we're back. We're really getting into the taboo cultural conversations on this podcast back in 2017.
00:32:01
Right. We're not afraid. Yeah, we had to like start getting into the suck of it all.
00:32:05
And it seems like we're still there. It seems like it's gotten worse, just like the people who study fascism told us it was going to.
00:32:14
Crazy. Imagine that. But I was actually talking about just even saying Jews versus Catholics.
00:32:20
Like it's a very, at this point, such a sensitive and, you know, touchy topic. I don't know.
00:32:28
It's just such a, you know, everything is like that these days. And so even just saying the word seems to be like somehow inflammatory, even though I'm talking about myself and you're talking about yourself.
00:32:40
Yeah. You know what else is inflammatory is the name suplantation. I mean, first and foremost, let's get that out there.
00:32:49
I mean, it doesn't exist anymore, except there is one location of Sweet Tomatoes, which is the name they changed it to, in Tucson, Arizona.
00:33:00
That's right. Oh. Mimi's like, God damn it. I mean, if you want to do a road trip to the Tucson Sweet Tomatoes, I would do that, a thousand percent.
00:33:11
Me? Oh, I'm down, for sure. Why aren't we doing a live show there just for that reason?
00:33:17
Inside the Sweet Tomatoes, like up by the croutons. Have you been to Sizzler lately, though?
00:33:22
It's got the same, the salad bar's got the same vibe. If you like really miss it, I recommend it.
00:33:27
Really? The thing I really loved about, I remember going to the Sizzler with my boyfriend back in, you know, must have been 1999 or something.
00:33:36
Oh, that's your date with your boyfriend. That's cute. It was a fun date to go to the Sizzler on Highland.
00:33:42
Yes, I remember that one. It's so stuffy and weird and dark. But when I went up to the salad bar, which is a thing I've always really had a love for,
00:33:52
it's just such a random, you can make it exactly how you want. Like for children of the 70s, we never got to do that with anything.
00:34:01
It was like either eat the Snickers the way it was given. Nobody's going to make a different version the way you like it.
00:34:06
Like that didn't exist back then. And so this idea that like you got to just go and make the exact salad you wanted.
00:34:14
Right. And you didn't have to just eat it even though there were onions on it or whatever.
00:34:18
Beets and stuff like you didn't want that, but shut up and eat it. But shut up and eat it.
00:34:22
And now you it was like you decide you want nacho cheese on that salad. Enjoy. Oh, my God.
00:34:27
Why doesn't that happen? That might be the best idea. What kind of dressing do you want?
00:34:32
Nacho cheese. Hot nacho cheese with green peppers in it. Karen. Have I done it? You did it.
00:34:38
A little bit of bacon bits on top. Sorry, but I'm going to sidebar us for one second because have I ever told you about that salad that I keep chasing that I used to eat in like the 2000s and the restaurant closed and it was actually an independent restaurant in Los Angeles.
00:34:52
So once it closed, the salad was gone forever. What was it? It was romaine lettuce.
00:34:57
And what I just realized is gorgonzola cheese, which I thought it was goat cheese this whole time.
00:35:02
So I've tried to remake it at home. And last night I just had an Italian restaurant salad.
00:35:08
This is the worst podcasting of all time. Is this for fascism? Like what? We have to recap?
00:35:15
I'd rather do salads. Right? I hate salads. And I'd rather talk about fucking salads than anything else.
00:35:22
Then talk about how, what's it like between 2017 and now? Nothing. Where it's like, oh, we didn't do anything about the big national joke.
00:35:30
And now the big national joke is stealing people off the street and disappearing them.
00:35:35
For real. So it's salads. So I'll say this. Romaine lettuce, chopped, almost like ribbon sliced, you know?
00:35:45
Gorgonzola, deep fried onion strings, and then a balsamic reduction dressing. That sounds so easy but getting those specific ones are probably hard Oh sorry And yes completely plus polenta croutons So deep fried squares of polenta as croutons Okay I never heard of that before
00:36:07
The combination of those items is so delicious. If you can make any of those things at home and you're,
00:36:11
if you can hear my voice right now out in the landscape, make yourself that salad.
00:36:16
And please tell us how you made deep fried polenta croutons because I've tried many a time, not deep fried,
00:36:23
but I've tried to fry some up myself and I can't do it. What about the air fryer?
00:36:27
I feel like that might work. Oh, yeah. These days. That's true. Maybe just cube them up and put them in an air fryer for like maybe for too long.
00:36:35
So they really get hard and crispy on the outside. There you go. We've solved fascism.
00:36:42
Nobody be unhappy anymore, okay? Because we talked about salad. Oh, my God. Onion rings on a salad.
00:36:47
I'm just, I'll stand by for the rest of my fucking life. And now nacho cheese. Now nacho cheese.
00:36:53
Some real hot salad on an iceberg lettuce, the kind that can really hold hot dressing.
00:36:59
Yeah. I can't even say it. It's so exciting. It's so disgusting. The reason it made me think of it is because at the Highland Sizzler, when I went up to get my salad, there was so much nacho cheese in the salad mix that I was like, should we start over with the salad?
00:37:17
Because I think someone really dragged the ladle across the actual lettuce part.
00:37:23
you know? Wow. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. I think we did it. Goodbye. I think that's, I think we should get into your story.
00:37:32
I think that's it. Great. Now let's get into Karen's story about the carbon copy murders.
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00:40:13
So it's me this week. Yay. Okay. Give it to me. I'm going to get my sweaty fucking ass on this leather couch comfortable.
00:40:20
Hold on. Slide your ass around and really find your space in this world. So having a job again, when I do my murders, I usually do them.
00:40:32
I have to do them quickly. Okay. I'm sorry, but the pose you're in right now. Is this helping you?
00:40:37
is this is helping you remind George is facing me on the couch with one leg up in the air
00:40:43
as if I'm her gynecologist and it's I have a pillow it's exactly no you're blocking
00:40:49
it entirely but it's exactly like that scene from girls when she's at surf camp and she just
00:40:55
pulls her bathing suit aside and suns her pussy that's my favorite scene I think about that all the time
00:41:01
and definitely and I'm also wearing like like 1970s what is this called like a onesie a romper
00:41:07
romper short shorts so if i move this pillow it would be it's over it would be over i love that
00:41:12
scene you move that pillow we're bestie besties don't think i wouldn't do because nothing about
00:41:17
juices we have no fucking shame naked we're just always naked can i tell that story of on your
00:41:23
wedding night i don't remember what you're talking about but go for it oh yeah can i
00:41:28
i have no secrets you don't care on george's wedding night and this was like i don't even
00:41:34
know what, well, it was when you guys went back to your room, obviously. So it was probably
00:41:38
two 30 in the morning. I was already, I'd already gone back to my room and gone to bed. I look at my
00:41:42
phone and Georgia had texted me a picture of herself. Well, here, can I explain that? So a
00:41:48
bunch, so we, after the wedding was over, we went to like, you know, to a little after party thing.
00:41:52
And like I guess a bunch of you guys my girlfriends had snuck into our hotel room and decorated it all cute and put candles and like that wasn that wasn you and put like uh but you had helped me with the wedding too and yes i just don want to take
00:42:05
credit for like put wrote you made my um bouquet that's sitting right over there that's right um
00:42:09
put rose petals and a heart like just some really cute sweet like shit that and that whole day made
00:42:15
me think how like there was so much help from so many girlfriends and it made me so fucking
00:42:19
it was so wonderful and so i got back and saw that and started crying immediately
00:42:24
and then and she had already taken her dress off which means she was topless entirely like
00:42:31
she doesn't wear a foundation garment our girl georgia so she's texted me a picture of herself
00:42:36
topless crying with like her wedding you still had something in your hair for your wedding i
00:42:41
texted that to maybe 10 of my girlfriends and i had glitter because we had glitter in the fucking
00:42:47
photo so it was just glitter stuck to my entire body and i was sitting on the bed crying and so
00:42:51
I don't care. A bunch of you guys have a topless photo of me. Naked and crying on your wedding night.
00:42:56
Hell, who fucking cares? Well done, you. Yay, thank you. Thank you for telling that story.
00:43:02
Okay, so because I'm pushing off my homework to the last minute, I was going through, you recommended to me Mysteries Abound,
00:43:12
which is an amazing podcast by an Australian guy named Paul Rex. It is the best.
00:43:19
He reads articles out of really cool magazines. And they're just interesting, fascinating wonders from around the world.
00:43:30
Lots of stuff about aliens. Lots of stuff about there's murder stuff. There's just kind of general mysteries.
00:43:36
Some bits of nature-based. So cool. It's so good. But he has this amazing voice.
00:43:42
So I've been listening to it on planes because you travel so much. And you get into that weird travel stress mode.
00:43:49
So when I got onto a plane, I put that podcast on and I can like go to sleep or I can, I just am like super relaxed.
00:43:56
So I've listened to all of them. I'm obsessed. So, um, uh, so also he, he is an independent podcaster.
00:44:05
So you can go on to just Google Paul Rex and mysteries abound. He has another podcast called origins, like origin with a Z.
00:44:15
Right. I haven't heard any of that, but that is another. It's another thing that seems fascinating.
00:44:21
But he, when he reads his article, says it's from this magazine or this website.
00:44:27
Quotes the source. Quotes the source? I don't get it. Really good idea. And one of the websites he talks about all the time is a website called coolinterestingstuff.com.
00:44:37
Yeah, I've heard that falling asleep. From coolinterestingstuff.com. This is from coolinterestingstuff.com.
00:44:44
Oh, I love it. So, uh, but also give, please give Paul Rex money so that he keeps podcasting.
00:44:50
Cause it's so, it's such high quality. It's so good. For sure. I did. I'm not just telling you to, I did.
00:44:57
Um, so anyway, you gave him money. I gave him money this morning because I was like, I want to tell people to do it, but
00:45:02
I want to be, I need to walk the walk. Take it. Anyhow, I went on to cool, interesting stuff.
00:45:08
Cause I was like, okay, I'm going to find, I'm going to be able to get something and
00:45:11
get a murder because oftentimes if I leave it till the day of the store it's the chronology that gets
00:45:17
me there's so much information that you like I you know you want to pick a good one but then they
00:45:23
have there's just so much stuff that you have to sift through and the you have to figure out the
00:45:27
story you want and you can't just read like a news report on it because that's not interesting you
00:45:31
have to tell I got the same thing with mine this week where it's like how do I end this or how do
00:45:35
I like make this exciting towards the end or yeah make it just yeah yeah you have to you know story
00:45:40
I don't know. You have to work on your podcast. You have to write a story for your podcast.
00:45:44
It seems bullshit. I'm kind of annoyed. I don't like it that much. Sorry. I'm sorry.
00:45:50
I'm sorry, but... Who said this was homework? Whom do you think this is? Whom do you are?
00:45:55
I think you are. So, go on to coolinterestingstuff.com. Okay. Which also seems like an independently produced thing.
00:46:04
It's all articles and things. it looks like somebody's doing it out of their den but someone's legitimately like i think this
00:46:14
is cool and interesting yes um love it is it even real who knows so this is the story that i found
00:46:21
that i i just love this uh and this kind of combines all my things i'm so excited it's called
00:46:26
the carbon copy murders have you heard of it no but i'm excited okay it's so good okay i just read
00:46:33
to you so um also cool interesting stuff dot com is the only um source that i can quote because
00:46:40
there's no individual writers that i found like there was no individual writer on this article
00:46:45
and so a lot of this article so it says it's a chicken a den what elvis just fell off the
00:46:51
sorry did he fall asleep and then fall off the couch yeah you're drunk it's probably one chicken
00:46:57
in her den. Right. Yes, exactly. So if you work there or you know somebody, please tell us who
00:47:03
coolinterestingstuff.com. Linda, tell us if you're working. Linda, give us your last name.
00:47:09
Linda, we want to know. Linda, we want to support you. Okay. The Carbon Copy Martyrs.
00:47:13
So on May 27th, 1817 at 6.30 a.m., a laborer on his way to work in Erdington, England.
00:47:24
I'm sure that's how they pronounce it. Erdington. I'm sure that's how they pronounce it.
00:47:29
England? I don't know if you've heard of it. He sees a pile of bloodstained clothes near Penn's Mill.
00:47:37
We say that as if it's somewhere we know it is. So he calls the police or gets the police because it's 1817.
00:47:45
He calls out for the police. And they search the area. They find two sets of footprints, a big and a little.
00:47:56
and they follow them down to a flooded sand pit. And they, then they dredge the sand pit and they find the body of a local girl named
00:48:07
Mary Ashford. So, uh, they start, the cops start asking around and they find out the
00:48:15
story of what she had been doing the night before. So it was a holiday called Wit Monday
00:48:21
and I looked it up. So it's basically, it's a Christian holiday 50 days after Easter.
00:48:28
they kept calling it on like the when i looked it up on the on wikipedia or whatever they kept
00:48:33
calling it pentecost which i'm like i don't know what this is and i'm like a lifelong catholic i've
00:48:39
never heard of this before it doesn't exist if you don't know what it is doesn't exist
00:48:43
me the expert yeah um so it's basically it sounds to me like it's like a last day of may
00:48:52
Yeah. I mean, the last day of the end of spring kind of before summer holiday. And it's on a Monday. So it's basically an excuse to have a long weekend.
00:49:03
Sure. Even back in 1817. Yeah. And so that night they were having a dance in Erdington for Whit Monday.
00:49:12
So Mary, she had traveled from Erdington, her hometown, to Birmingham to sell dairy produce at the local market.
00:49:22
market that's like what she did for a living um and then she had plans to meet up with her friend
00:49:27
hannah cox she was going to go to hannah's house change into her party dress and they were together
00:49:32
going to go to wits and tide uh the wits and tide dance is what it was called for for wit monday
00:49:39
um that was at the tyburn house inn that was that night so she got to hannah's house at six in the
00:49:47
evening she changed into her new dress and then they went to the dance together sorry she's 12
00:49:52
20. 20. Oh, that's a lot older. Okay. It's like eight years old. Yeah. So at the dance, they have a great time.
00:50:00
She's a very popular, well-known girl, Mary is. And so they have lots of male admirers at the dance.
00:50:07
But for the most part, she had spent the evening in the company of a young bricklayer named Abraham Thornton.
00:50:15
Get that bricklayer. My grandfather was a bricklayer. No way. He was the president of the Bricklayers Union in San Francisco.
00:50:22
Oh, my God. Yeah. So that's the two of them together. Sounds like a fucking cover of a romance novel.
00:50:28
Yeah. Hot. The lady and the bricklayer. Hell yeah. If you lay bricks, then you also keep your shirt unbuttoned to your navel.
00:50:35
Definitely. And he's like more like a brick slayer. I don't know. Something. There's something there.
00:50:41
Just let it like roll around in your mind for a little bit. So she's hanging out with Abe.
00:50:47
her friend Hannah is hanging out with a guy named Benjamin Carter. So the dance ends at midnight
00:50:54
and the foursome leave and Hannah and Benjamin are separated and married. So Hannah and Benjamin
00:51:02
go off this way and Mary and Abraham go off in another direction. Definitely leave your friend
00:51:07
with a guy she doesn't know. Right. I mean, look, they're 20. Yeah. They're at a dance,
00:51:13
good times, great oldies. Now let's go for a stroll in the lane. Okay. So later on, it's like
00:51:21
3.30 in the morning. Mary is seen walking toward back toward Hannah Cox's house. And the witness
00:51:27
tells the police that he noticed she was walking very slowly and that she was alone.
00:51:33
At Hannah's house, she takes off the new dress, changes back into her work clothes
00:51:37
and tells Hannah she's going to go home. She says goodbye, leaves the house at 4am.
00:51:43
And, and she's only, she's seen two more occasions that night. Occasions. You can tell that was a cut and paste word if you've ever heard one.
00:51:52
Um, a man named Joseph Dawson testified that he'd seen Mary in Bell Lane around 4.15 AM.
00:52:00
I mean, they partied all night long. Dude, that's like, I can't, I can't do that.
00:52:04
And that's 200 years later. For real. Well, but she's 20. Sure. And she's got that, like a milk, a milkmaid's constitution.
00:52:12
Yeah. She's like, I'm selling dairy all week. I want to party. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.
00:52:18
Joseph Dawson sees her at 4.15, and then 10 minutes later, she was seen in the same lane by a guy named Thomas Broadhurst.
00:52:26
There's a lot of people out. Yeah. At night. Well, because it's that three-day weekend, everyone.
00:52:31
Sure. Working for. Both witnesses say that she was alone when they saw her. Okay.
00:52:38
Okay, so when the police interview Abe Thornton, the guy, they tell her that she has been murdered,
00:52:47
that she probably by strangulation after being raped. He was in total shock. He told the detectives, I can't believe she was murdered.
00:52:56
I was with her until four o'clock this morning. So the police believe him to be sincere.
00:53:04
He doesn't understand that he's the chief suspect in this murder investigation. he's finally taken into custody. Um, and they grill him about the night and every, the whole,
00:53:15
everything that happened after they left the dance. Um, he says that they did have sex. Um,
00:53:22
but he didn't 1817. They totally boned in a field. It was better than less chemicals. Um,
00:53:32
he, they had sex, but he denies of course that he raped and murdered her. He actually states that,
00:53:38
when Hannah and Ben peeled off, he and Mary strolled hand in hand through a field over to a stile,
00:53:47
which is, I don't know if you've ever watched like a Jane Austen movie, but sometimes you know how like they walk through fields,
00:53:53
they like I going to go over to that castle over there and they just start walking Well when you come to a fence they used to build in stairs into the fence with like a pole So you could walk over the fence without the like sheep getting over the fence
00:54:06
I didn't know that. Okay. That was called a style. That was the standard thing. So they went over to a style, sat down, started chatting.
00:54:14
Oh my God. What's it like to lay bricks? It's like this. How's, what is it really like selling milk?
00:54:21
I'll tell you. Shut up. I'll tell you if you just let me talk for one second. they talk for 15 minutes and then they go to the green at Erdington where Mary goes back into
00:54:33
Hannah's house to change out of the dress she's in her nice dress and into her work clothes.
00:54:38
He's waiting outside for her for a long time and she doesn't come back out. So he goes home alone.
00:54:45
That's his story. Um, he, and that story is backed up by three witnesses who saw him standing there
00:54:53
waiting for her. One was a gamekeeper named John Hayden, um, who stood there and talked to him for
00:55:00
15 full minutes. So, uh, everybody's like, yeah, this, you know, so clearly he did it.
00:55:07
So clearly it's this piece of shit. No. Um, so the, basically the investigation stalls out because
00:55:15
aside from that like bit of action, there's nothing else that they know about what Mary did
00:55:21
that night. Um, uh, and no one saw the two of them together after she went back into Hannah's house.
00:55:29
Um, so they have a trial still, he's arrested and he's, and he's brought to trial and, um,
00:55:37
that trial was in August of that year at the Warwick ass size court. No, but fuck. Yeah.
00:55:45
Yeah. What is your ass size? We'll guess your weight and charge you with murder.
00:55:52
Your ass size doesn't look innocent. Okay. So hundreds of people think he did it.
00:55:59
So they're all standing outside the court waiting for the guilty verdict. Those are the good people.
00:56:04
Yeah. Those are the murderinos of 1817. So it turns out after six minutes of deliberation,
00:56:13
And the jury came back and with the verdict, not guilty. So in modern English law, that verdict would have been final.
00:56:21
But in early 19th century, an ancient law existed, which enabled Mary Ashford's brother, William, to appeal that verdict and demand a second trial.
00:56:32
And so the judge, Lord Ellen Burrah, he decides he allows Thornton to take advantage of an archaic law called trial by battle.
00:56:45
B-A-T-T-E-L. That's how you know it's old. So basically that means he can renew his plea of not guilty by literally throwing a gauntlet down from the dock.
00:56:58
No. Yeah. So, yeah. Come on. And by doing that, he is challenging William Ashford, Mary's brother, who is the one who wants him, you know, retried.
00:57:11
He's challenging him to a fight to the death. Shut the fuck up. Yeah. Unless one of them surrenders or is incapacitated during the fight.
00:57:20
Guys, guys, guys. So people to fight this because it's such an ancient, but it's basically Lord Ellenborough is like this is the law of England and it's allowed.
00:57:31
And so... My God, can you imagine today of, like, that thing? All right, well, there's a law that says you can have a deal.
00:57:38
So let's have a deal. So grab this axe and throw it on the ground. It's in the law books.
00:57:42
So if Ashford accepts the challenge and wins, that means Thornton will be executed immediately.
00:57:50
Fuck. But if Thornton wins, then he's free and doesn't have to ever appear in court again for this murder.
00:57:57
What about for the murder of this guy? Oh, my God. That one's like everybody knows that that's what he signed up for.
00:58:04
So, um, so this guy does it. He's like, hell yes, I'm in. So he throws the gauntlet down and, uh, William Ashford basically doesn't respond to Abraham
00:58:20
Thornton's challenge. Um, and so he gets off. So it's basically like one of those things where you, if you have a traffic ticket and
00:58:28
you challenge it if the cop that gave you the ticket doesn't show up in court yeah then you
00:58:32
don't have to pay the ticket so the brother was like oh i don't know the trial and abraham was
00:58:36
like gauntlet and he was like you know what i don't want to get killed you're good because you're a
00:58:40
big beefy bricklayer yeah and you're gonna kick my ass you're like walking off the cover of a
00:58:45
romance novel yeah it's you're you're like what's his name fabio thank you i don't say that because
00:58:52
Vince jokes about Fabio all the time. Does he? Fabio was sitting behind our table at a sushi restaurant once,
00:58:59
me and my friend Karen Anderson. And so I was staring at Fabio the entire dinner.
00:59:04
And I was like, there's a celebrity behind you. You have to guess who it is. You will not believe it.
00:59:10
She guessed people the entire dinner. And I was giving her clues. That's my dream dinner conversation.
00:59:17
Long hair, romance. I was giving her every clue. She never guessed it. And we had to wait until he got up and walked out.
00:59:23
And then she's like, Fabio? No. Yeah. I'd be like, yeah. And so jokingly say like, you look great.
00:59:31
Like, I know Fabio is your type. But like, he always references like when we're making out and you close your eyes and think about Fabio.
00:59:38
No, I don't. He's your, yes, he's your male ideal. Yeah, that's who I think about.
00:59:42
Okay. So essentially he gets off. He never is going to get tried again. And he ends up, it's such a, he,
00:59:51
He's so known as everyone thinks he killed Mary Ashford that he ends up emigrating to the United States because he can get a job as a bricklayer So exactly 157 years later to the hour Shut the fuck up
01:00:06
After the discovery of Mary Ashford's body on Monday, May 27th, 1975, which was also
01:00:13
Whit Monday, that holiday laid on the same day. 157 years later the body of 20 year old
01:00:23
Barbara Forrest was found dead in the long grass of a ditch near Pipe Hayes Children's
01:00:29
Home where she worked as a nurse she had been strangled and raped the bodies of both victims were
01:00:37
found within 300 yards of each other oh my god and later police arrested Michael Thornton
01:00:45
no a Birmingham childcare officer who worked at that same children's home where Barbara worked.
01:00:51
So here's the similarities. They were both 20. They look alike. And there are two pictures.
01:00:57
One looks like an illustration of a Jane Austen character. And one is a straight on picture of a very pretty, very young 70s gal.
01:01:07
So you can't get the profile thing, but they look alike. It's the same small, fine features of two young women, essentially.
01:01:17
Both pretty. They had both visited their best friend on the evening of Whit Monday
01:01:23
to change into a new dress for the local dance party. They were both raped and then strangled.
01:01:30
And that happened to them both at the same time of day. Oh, my God. Same guy did it then, probably, right?
01:01:37
Yep. He was a time traveler that was just about that spot. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyone who walked by that spot, he was going to kill.
01:01:44
They were both, obviously, both guys named Thornton. Jesus. In both instances, the man named Thornton was charged, then subsequently acquitted.
01:01:53
Wow. Mary Ashford and Barbara Forrest had this same birth date. Not ready to move on yet.
01:02:02
Okay. Stop it right fucking now. now listen this is from cool interesting stuff.com clearly they're correct entitling their
01:02:11
fucking website that holy shit it's if this is true all true yeah i love it it's so insane
01:02:21
if it's not it's still fine i still fucking love it i still love the concept of it
01:02:26
but fuck i mean like this because this could happen that's just that thing of like yeah yeah
01:02:31
if a hundred monkeys right now are typing a typewriter like it's that kind of thing but it's
01:02:35
But it's also then it brings in my favorite kind of a culty thing, which which is could something else be involved or whatever?
01:02:43
I love it. Here's the other similarity. A week before Mary Ashford was murdered, she told her friend Hannah Cox's mother that she had bad feelings about the week to come.
01:02:56
But she didn't know what it meant. She didn't have any specifics on that. and 10 days before Barbara Forrest was raped and strangled,
01:03:05
she told a colleague at work, this is going to be my unlucky month. I just know it.
01:03:10
Don't ask me why. Carbon copy murders, ladies and gentlemen. Isn't that insanity?
01:03:17
Oh, my God. Coochie twinge. But you're saying that with your leg up in the air. Sorry.
01:03:24
I am splayed open. I mean, can it twinge at that angle? Can you see? You're embarrassing Steven
01:03:32
I'm sorry Steven is face flat on the ground No, he's taking notes No, I think he passed out
01:03:37
Nope, you're right He's passed out Shit We killed Steven Killed Steven Oops Well, your coach
01:03:43
He killed Steven Oh, man Ain't be the first time I killed I don't know What? That doesn't make any sense
01:03:49
That was amazing And creepy And fucked up Insane Thank you For regaling me Thank you, Paul Rex
01:03:57
Thank you, Linda from coolinterestingthings.com. Or Lyndon. Lyndon or Linda. Whoever you might be.
01:04:04
That's it. Okay, we're back. Karen, do you have any updates? There's no case updates,
01:04:12
but in 2018, a historian named Naomi Clifford published a book called The Murder of Mary Ashford,
01:04:19
The Crime That Changed English Legal History. And that digs into the 1817 case and clears up a lot of the myths.
01:04:27
Also, just as a fun footnote, the podcast Mysteries Abound with Paul Rex ended in 2019, but the catalog is still up so you can listen to episodes wherever you get your podcasts.
01:04:39
Wow, that was a fascinating story. Okay, so let's get into Georgia's story about the Annecy shootings.
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that's code cry at g-r-u-n-s dot c-o so here's one that's been in my drafts like since the beginning of this podcast because I've always loved this story okay but there's
01:07:37
never like good closure to it because it was only five years ago, but I always kind of look it up and
01:07:42
see what's new. And so finally I'm ready to do it. So this is the Annecy shootings. Okay. All right.
01:07:51
Go ahead and give credit right now to Sean Flynn, who wrote this like five part GQ
01:07:56
article about it. That's really great, but it hasn't been, I think it's from a couple of years
01:08:00
ago. So there's, but I, but he helped me a lot. So thank you. All right. September 5th, 2012 on
01:08:06
secluded route ready for this floristate domanile de la combe de irie wow no not getting close near
01:08:17
the southern and cue the corrections corner near the southern end of lake annecy in france okay
01:08:24
it's a small serene city it's about six hour drive from paris and a man named brett uh martin was
01:08:31
out riding his bike, cycling up this beautiful hill. And as he crossed a river bridge and continued
01:08:37
up the hill, a little girl came stumbling into the road and collapsed in front of her family's
01:08:43
car that was parked on the side of the road. Seven-year-old Zainab Al-Heli had been shot in
01:08:50
the shoulder and she had been pistol whipped. He stops at the scene and inside of Zainab's
01:08:57
His family car, the family BMW, had a camper attached, was the dead bodies of her father, Saeed Al-Hili.
01:09:06
He's a 50-year-old satellite engineer. His wife, Iqbal, she's a 47-year-old dentist.
01:09:11
And Iqbal's mother, Suhail, she's 74, and each had been shot twice in the head inside the car.
01:09:19
Oh, my God. The family was in the area on vacation from their home in Claygate, Surrey, England.
01:09:27
and they were on their way for a walk in the woods, just a random venture into the woods.
01:09:34
And also on the scene, outside the car, was the dead body of a local cyclist, Sylvain Mollier.
01:09:42
He's 45. He's been shot five times, twice in the head. The car was stopped in a way that investigators were able to tell
01:09:51
that prior to the shooting, the BMW had reversed sharply. the driver was Saeed into the lay-by
01:10:00
so in reverse trying to get the fuck out of there the wheels had gotten stuck in the gravel
01:10:07
and as they tried to make a getaway so the car had gotten stuck there the car is still running
01:10:13
it's in neutral but someone is just jammed on the gas pedal so it's just revving up
01:10:21
all the doors are locked with the three dead bodies inside police said that the shooter had originally been in the woods but had come out into the road to
01:10:30
kill everyone so the police come they're investigating the whole thing they cordon off
01:10:36
the area eight hours later as they're still investigating the whole scene and the bodies
01:10:41
had still been in the car a young a specialist forensic investigator finds four-year-old
01:10:48
Zana, she's the youngest daughter of the Al-Hali family, hiding beneath her dead mother's legs
01:10:57
and skirt in the back of the car, unharmed. So she had been hiding that whole time, including the eight hours where they were trying to
01:11:06
figure out what happened. They had seen one child seat in the car and they had one child at the scene.
01:11:14
Yeah. Can you fucking imagine that poor medical investigator who thinks he's opening the door or she's opening the door?
01:11:25
Or finally removing the body after like photographing everything. A four-year-old.
01:11:31
I just was at my friend's house today and his three-year-old came home while we were leaving.
01:11:37
No. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Sorry. So clues at the scene point to a lone killer who had already been near the lay-by when
01:11:47
the Al-Hili family arrived. And they had been in a seemingly random drive again, like I
01:11:52
said. They came from their campsite that was by Lake Annecy, which is like this fucking
01:11:56
gorgeous town. The local cyclists were in the area of the city. Mollier, he was also on a totally random ride on a route that he had never taken before,
01:12:06
so the whole thing seemed random. It was speculated by the whole scene that the Al-Khalif family had been the target of
01:12:14
the whole thing and that they were shot first and the cyclist happened on the scene and
01:12:21
was killed as a result of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. So he just showed up.
01:12:26
And the eyewitnesses said that neither the car or the cyclist was being followed.
01:12:31
So there's another dude. The dude who came up on the scene was coming up the road, had gotten passed by both that
01:12:35
other cyclist and the car and was like, nobody was following them. Oh, so he was like the slower cyclist.
01:12:42
Yeah. Shit. Yeah. And he like found that. He says he got to the scene. He's like suddenly putting together what happened as he's trying to help the girl.
01:12:50
And then he's like, well, I'm about to get shot. Like he, yeah, he says in this documentary that I saw, I was like, well, I wonder what it's going to be.
01:12:58
It's going to feel like to get shot by a gun. Because he just is positive. Yeah, because it's just it just happened because he had seen them.
01:13:06
All right. Motives quickly are thrown about by the media who fucking freak out about this case, both in England and in France.
01:13:11
So both the site and Sylvain worked in the nuclear in nuclear industry jobs. Mollier at one of the largest suppliers of nuclear components in the world and Al-Hali in the past as an Iraqi in Iraq as an engineer on sensitive topics.
01:13:29
And currently in the UK involved in nuclear and satellite technology. And there were sensitive files found on his computer at work.
01:13:37
So it was hypothesized that this was a hit on one or both of them, that they had intelligence that the government or another fucking place wanted them silenced for.
01:13:49
And maybe one of them got in the wrong time or they were like working together. Who knows?
01:13:54
Then two European newspapers cited anonymous German intelligence sources reporting that Syed's late father had smuggled cash out of Iraq for Saddam Hussein and stashed it in a Swiss bank account.
01:14:12
But it was soon found that Sylvain Moliere was on a three year leave of absence from his job and he was just a welder at the nuclear plant.
01:14:21
That's the cyclist? Yeah. Okay. And he didn't have access to anything that would be in interest to criminals, nor did Syed have access to any classified secrets or anything satellite related that would be of interest to any terrorist cell.
01:14:35
But of course, the fucking media had gone crazy and were like, this is why this whole family got killed is because terror.
01:14:41
Right. Some kind of terror. And then while Syed's late father, the guy who they said had money in Iraq, he did leave cash when he died in 2011 in a Swiss bank account.
01:14:51
It had no ties to Saddam Hussein. It was much less than they assumed it was going to be.
01:14:56
So it really wasn't any connection. The next suspect that the media and investigators targeted was Zayed Al-Hili, who's the older brother of Zayed.
01:15:06
The brothers, they hadn't spoken in almost a year except through solicitors, a.k.a. lawyers.
01:15:12
That's what we call lawyers in America. Right. And they were sorting through their late father's estate.
01:15:18
so they hadn't spoken in a year because it was really like crazy and fucking stressful so like
01:15:24
there was a fight about money and who got what inheritance which everyone's like oh well clearly
01:15:30
there you go um there was the money in the swiss bank account there was the house there was a house
01:15:36
a small studio in spain and they were fighting over it but zaid insisted that they were being
01:15:41
civil about it though and insisted that there was no actual feud which seems hard to believe right
01:15:47
He even defended his brother against the suspicion that he was a spy and said the amount of money was much smaller than was rumored.
01:15:56
But on Friday, September 28th, the police came to his flat with a search warrant.
01:16:03
All the houses near his flat were evacuated and the Royal Logistics Corps bomb disposal unit was summoned.
01:16:11
So they freaked everyone out in the neighborhood. They were like, we got this guy.
01:16:14
What year was this? This is 2012 still. Oh, okay. Yeah, 2012 still. So they're evacuated, made a big scene.
01:16:27
They said that there was something suspicious. And these are like these, I feel like these European trade mags like this, or gossip mags,
01:16:36
go crazy with whatever they have there. The same way we do, but in this way that's like...
01:16:40
No, they're insane. Right? You mean like those tabloid magazines? Yeah. insane. They're horrible. Right. Yeah. So this was like a big story in there. So anything
01:16:50
that they got, they would put on there, including that there was quote, something suspicious,
01:16:53
potentially hazard found in his house. Can I just say one thing really quick? So you
01:16:57
hear about the Grenfell towers, which was the huge apartment building that burned, um,
01:17:03
and was basically burned because it was like, if slumlords didn't, there were no fire extinguishers
01:17:10
they were in and then there was lots of complaints and no one did anything and uh so many people died
01:17:15
a firefighter who had to go in and fight that fire posted a picture of his helmet um on social
01:17:24
media and all these people were like it was like going in to help or you know whatever something
01:17:28
and somebody from the sun i believe replied do we have permission to use this picture for our
01:17:35
newspaper and the firefighter wrote back not for that shit rag and everybody was retweeting it and
01:17:40
faving it oh my god i think it's like people because those they have such an influence on
01:17:46
the way people see things and they act like it's like look people need to hear the story but it
01:17:51
isn like the story it just this weird biased well they have like quoted sources but there you don know who those sources are Those sources haven been confirmed as being correct Exactly And it like this thing of well if I don put this story out and it turns out to be true if I don do it first
01:18:08
someone else gets to it and there's no fucking point of me putting it out. So I'm going to put
01:18:11
it out now and hope it's true. Yeah. And then I'll go back and fix it if I need to,
01:18:15
or I'll put up the next story. Yeah. They don't play by actual journalism roles, which is you can't quote a source that you don't, if you're not like it's,
01:18:23
There's certain phrasing that they use. I just read a thing about this where they use this phrasing that basically just means anyone could have said this.
01:18:30
It could be like they could turn to somebody in the next cubicle and be like, hey, do you think this?
01:18:35
And they'd be like, a source says. Yeah. Or whatever. There's certain buzzwords that you can look up.
01:18:40
Which is so the frustration that we can go on about this over 24 hour news is that like you don't have a chance to really research anything if you need to get something out immediately.
01:18:50
Well, and everybody else depends on that. We're trusting these news sources, these, these, like all these news stations as if they are when so many times we've seen in the past couple of years, they'll go with a whole story based on a tweet. Yeah. And it's like we, as a person that's on Twitter all the time, it's bullshit. Like the idea that you would base anything on a tweet that could be from anyone doing anything for any reason. Totally.
01:19:15
Our boy Riz Ahmed actually tweeted something about that where he's like, you hear so much about Muslim terror, but when all apparently so many Muslim people ran into Grenfell Tower to try to save people from that building.
01:19:29
Oh, my God. And you don't there. No, you don't see any headlines about that. That drives me crazy. All of those you hear about all like this thing that happened, but you didn't hear about this, you know, this bombing and fucking, you know, some town that we don't or some city in Iraq that we don't care about because someone's decided we don't have to care.
01:19:49
Right. Right. Even though it's also innocent fucking people getting killed, too.
01:19:52
Yeah. So, OK, well, sorry. No, I think it's important that we talked about that. So they said that they found something potentially hazardous in the house.
01:20:03
And they found it in the garden shed behind the house, which is so ominous. And like where you make bombs probably shit, right?
01:20:09
Fertilizer. Right. Right. The police never announced what it was, but it turned out to not be dangerous.
01:20:15
And it said that they found just a taser, which was illegal to have. But despite them not finding anything, in June 2013, he was arrested.
01:20:27
This is the brother for conspiracy to commit murder. But he only spent one night in jail.
01:20:31
and was never arrested again. So also the cyclist who happened upon the scene was ruled out as a suspect as well.
01:20:40
Other motives that have been thrown around are the involvement of the SAS, which I had to look up,
01:20:46
Special Air Services of the British Army, CIA, Israeli intelligence, Iraqi agents,
01:20:52
Saddam Hussein loyalists. It was determined by the bullets in them and the gun part of the gun handle that broke off when the murderer pistol whipped this fucking
01:21:05
seven-year-old girl who survived and is okay now so we can calm down um that it was a 7.6 millimeter
01:21:15
luger manufactured between 1909 and 1947 and it's the type of gun that was issued to swiss army
01:21:22
reservists in the 1920s and 30s. So a fucking like really rare gun. Yeah. Then the other thing
01:21:31
was that there was a connection. So the Iqbal, the wife, she who died, she then it came out was
01:21:40
secretly married, had a first secret husband in America that they kind of died, you know,
01:21:47
they not died. They married for a green card. It wasn't about anything. The husband didn't even
01:21:51
know. It turned out. So he didn't even know. That same day that she got killed, he died
01:21:57
of a heart attack. The husband in America? Yeah. He had a heart issue and then drove
01:22:04
into a tree and died. Uh-uh. Nope. Right? No. Same day. Nope. But it's later ruled out
01:22:11
as a coincidence. Bullshit. Okay. Well, what do you think happened then? Someone got Michael
01:22:17
clayton's they just stuck a needle in his neck or some weird thing that and then he crashed into a
01:22:22
tree what so she's a dentist what if she like implanted some like little thing in there and
01:22:28
like as soon as she died if i ever die you're gonna die too like if my heart stops beating oh
01:22:33
like it was her thing yeah like if my heart stops beating that thing and you're she's gonna never
01:22:37
you can never have me killed or what if they were just really in love i know or what if they just
01:22:42
died in the same day or what if hold on there's five more that's what this whole fucking story is
01:22:49
this is a fucking major murder yeah because when you first said it i was like i know what this is
01:22:53
yeah and now i have no idea what you know can we edit this in steven i meant to say at the beginning
01:22:57
you ready for a hardcore murder mystery i fucking totally meant to say that to get you all amped and
01:23:01
i fucking forgot to let's start over no you you just keep just plow ahead you can do this karen
01:23:07
it's already happening are you ready for a hardcore murder mystery yeah okay great
01:23:11
next suspect halfway halfway through yeah well now i'm ready now it gets deep okay okay patrice
01:23:18
mengaldo so the sister of the cyclist who died at the scene um told police that she was in an
01:23:26
on again off again seven-year relationship with the ex an ex foreign french foreign legion sniper
01:23:33
named patrice mengaldo he had been given just a standard interview as a witness because he was a
01:23:40
local, but he was not a suspect. Um, but then he wasn't a suspect 21 months after the killing leaves a suicide note saying
01:23:49
he couldn't handle being considered a suspect and shoots and kills himself. What?
01:23:54
Yeah. Not being a suspect He wasn a suspect He said he can handle being a suspect considered a suspect which he wasn And he was a fucking sniper Right
01:24:05
Right. Then, okay, Michel Hecht. In 2016, retired police captain turned private detective Pascal Hutch, who I want to fucking hang out with.
01:24:20
He tipped investigators off to this 1986 murders of schoolteachers Paul Bellion, who was 29, and Lorraine Galsby, 28, of Derbyshire.
01:24:33
So these two schoolteachers, these sweet baby angels, they're fucking engaged and shit.
01:24:38
They're on a cycling holiday when they fucking disappeared. Their bodies are later found in a shallow grave in a maize field in Brittany.
01:24:48
That's corn. Korn, a.k.a. Korn. They had been bound back to back, gagged, and they had been shot with a hunting rifle.
01:24:58
And the case had been unsolved for almost 30 years. And the French detective thought that the similarities were really interesting.
01:25:04
And in fact, the mother of Lorraine, the young woman who had died, said that the moment she heard about the murders in Annecy,
01:25:11
she thought the cases were linked because there were so many similarities. Wow. Yeah. The main suspect in those murders was, is 53 year old Belgian, um, Michael Hecht.
01:25:23
What's M-I-C-H-E-L? Michael? Isn't that Michael? Michael? Michael? Mr. Hecht. Where are you getting Michael from?
01:25:32
Michael. Michael. Michael, Michael, Michael, Michael. Edit that. Steven. Well, I can't remember now in, like, I can't remember in French class what that, what.
01:25:42
they probably didn't teach you that. I think Michael in French is Michelle. Right.
01:25:48
Yeah. Okay. Well, he had been jailed in 2008, this fucking dude, for trying to kill his own family.
01:25:56
Whoa. He shot at his brother, sister-in-law, and their baby. And none of them died,
01:26:03
but they'd all been injured. So he had been in jail in 2008, and he had been let out of jail
01:26:12
for that 10 months later. Because, and I don't understand this, he had already been on remand for three years.
01:26:19
Meaning maybe he had already spent three years in jail, so they let him out. I don't fucking know.
01:26:23
Sounds insane. For the same, oh, so they're like, look, you've done your time for almost trying to kill your whole family,
01:26:29
including a baby. Okay. So Hecht, allegedly he confessed to the killings of the school teachers while he was in jail
01:26:37
to a dude who was there. But the judge ruled it inimissible and the DNA from that murder was lost.
01:26:45
So he now lives in France. Fuck. Because it's like... What's it look like? Vosis.
01:26:55
Vosis. Yeah, that sounds good. Okay. And it's two hours from Annecy. That's where he lives now.
01:27:01
Okay. Okay, so they noted that the shooter had fired 21 times, mostly at this vehicle that was moving.
01:27:09
17 bullets hit people out of 21 not one of those bullets hit the frame or the doors or the fenders
01:27:17
or any other part of a moving car eight of them were headshots shit so it made investigators think
01:27:25
that it was a professional yeah two in the head which is the way special ops and assassin are
01:27:31
trained to do so each of them got two in the fucking head he didn't hit the car like can you
01:27:36
imagine we would just be like shooting the sun well yeah well even even a person that probably
01:27:43
like is a hunter has experience you a moving car yeah shit yeah and they're like one guy in the
01:27:51
front seat two people in the back seat okay so anyways it's been five years since the murder
01:27:58
the brother of said was asking is now asking he's like in it still he's like i didn't fucking do it
01:28:07
he's kind of a badass he's like i didn't fucking do it fuck all of you no i'm not coming in for
01:28:11
more questioning because you have no you don't know what you're doing i think the french police
01:28:15
don't want it to be a french suspect the english police don't want to be an english suspect so no
01:28:20
one's fucking working together and this is awful and so he's asking for a review from the british
01:28:27
high court judge. He thinks the French police know who committed the murders and that the dead
01:28:32
cyclist, Sylvain Moller, was the target and that his brother and his family were in the wrong place
01:28:38
at the wrong time. So finally, and this is what I think fucking happened personally. On February 18th,
01:28:45
2014, a 48-year-old local man was arrested and made after a sketch is shown and made public
01:28:55
of a bearded man who had been seen in the area on a motorcycle that same day. So when the cyclist is riding up the hill to find this fucking murder,
01:29:09
he sees a motorcycle going down the other way. Oh. And this person had never come forward, even though it was a big case, obviously any witnesses.
01:29:15
So they have a sketch composite of him. They finally fucking release it two years later.
01:29:19
It's a bearded man in a motorcycle helmet. it. And they find a dude who they're not naming who bears a striking similarity. It's a 48-year-old
01:29:30
man between the photos. He drives a motorcycle. They searched his home and found a, quote,
01:29:38
cachet of vintage weapons, including a Luger handgun, although it's not the same one that
01:29:43
killed the family. He had been a police officer, but had been dismissed recently before the murders
01:29:51
in June because of anger issues Uh oh So he was released without charge after questioning So what I think happened and it so fucking annoying because nobody wants to believe this What the simplest answer
01:30:06
Fucking road rage. Oh, yeah. They cut him off. They cut him off. Or the reason, there was no, there's no reason given why they would have pulled into the turnoff to begin with.
01:30:15
You know, where they had to make the U-turn and try to go the other way. Where they got stuck and killed.
01:30:19
There's no reason given why they would have done that. so perhaps they they were speeding or someone was speeding
01:30:26
and almost hit each other and so he veers off the road into this turn off where they pull over to be like
01:30:32
talk about it or maybe they're both fucking angry people and are yelling at each other
01:30:36
yeah and then the cyclist comes on the scene at the exact time he starts to kill the family
01:30:42
whoa road rage I mean that is very viable yes Yes. More. But I think this was, do you want to hear my first?
01:30:54
Fucking always. Yeah. Thank you. Well, just from the beginning. And also, this sounds really familiar.
01:31:02
You haven't done this one before, have you? No. It sounds so familiar. I feel like I've seen it.
01:31:06
You probably heard me think about it. I bet you've told me about it. Yeah. Personally.
01:31:13
But maybe I just saw it on a lot of those shows. Yeah, it's on a lot of those. Because I think the fact that the cyclist who was murdered has more gunshot wounds.
01:31:27
Yeah. To me, it's like that's the anger one. And that's the key. He's the target.
01:31:33
And then the other ones were wrong place, wrong time. And he's just getting rid of witnesses.
01:31:38
And if he's some kind of a creepy psychopath, it's not like he's going, oh, no, it's a family or anything.
01:31:43
He's like, take out those witnesses. Take out children. Pistol whip a seven. or whatever the fuck his deal is.
01:31:50
Well, here's, and I think you have a really good point, which is that the cyclist is the one exposed
01:31:54
and he still gets seven gunshot wounds. Yeah. The people in the car are in a car and only get two.
01:32:01
Yeah. And the other thing is that the dad and the daughter who got pistol whipped were outside of the car
01:32:06
when the shootings happened. So for some reason, they were talking to either the cyclists
01:32:10
or the killer. But the other thing is they didn't ever mention anything in the police report about there being motorcycle tracks anywhere.
01:32:17
Oh. So this whole time I thought it was like a sniper in the woods, but you know, maybe there are motorcycle trucks are keeping secret or something like that for investigation purposes.
01:32:29
Or maybe he knows, like if just say he was responsible for the one, the cyclists who
01:32:35
were murdered 30 years before, he has a real good system. He knows, you know, like he peels out in a certain way where it covers his track or just
01:32:43
something like that where he doesn't park in dirt. He doesn't park in an invented, inventable surface or something, something like that.
01:32:51
Also, here's this. Why would a father let his seven-year-old get out of the car to talk to a road rage
01:32:58
situation? Like that would be a classic stay in the car. I will take care of that.
01:33:02
Totally. So that doesn't totally, it could be the thing of like, Oh, what does that man have over?
01:33:09
You know what I mean? Like it sounds so innocent. Or even like we're lost. Can you help us?
01:33:13
And it's just some fucking psychopath. Like they were fucking random. I mean, and if they're Arabic, he could be a fucking racist piece of shit.
01:33:21
He could be a racist piece of shit for sure. He's a psycho. But why do you shoot this?
01:33:25
The guy that comes upon the scene five times or the, or the, secondary person, the non-family car person. As opposed to a couple times? As opposed to the two
01:33:34
clean kill shots to the head, which this guy can do in a moving car. So he clearly can do it to guy
01:33:39
on a bike. Yeah. Why does that guy get three more extra? What's that? That doesn't make sense.
01:33:47
You're right. I don't know. That just, there's something to that. Yeah. Also he doesn't,
01:33:52
it sounds like he did the family last because he didn't stick around to finish off the seven-year-old
01:33:58
or know that the four-year-old was in the car? He ran out of bullets, which is why he pistol-whipped the seven-year-old.
01:34:04
It sounds like she got shot pretty early on in the shoulder, so maybe he was panicking.
01:34:10
Then she got pistol-whipped right before he left. Okay, who the fuck can beat a seven-year-old with a gun?
01:34:20
Yeah, because they couldn't kill her. And the other thing is that maybe the reason he shot
01:34:26
and had to make sure that the cyclist was killed first was because he's the one who had the easiest getaway.
01:34:33
A bike? Yeah. Not if that guy was on a motorcycle. Right. True. I mean, to me, it's this.
01:34:45
Go with me on this. Let's do it. I'm here. I'm there. The people are already parked at the turn.
01:34:56
thing. What do you call that? Layout? What do they call it? They call it a layabout. But it's like
01:35:00
for us, it's like, like to let someone pass you a shoulder, shoulder. Thank you. They're pulled
01:35:05
over. Cause they're like, look, we're going to go look to go down and look at the river. We're
01:35:08
going to take, take a picture, take a family picture. So whatever, something, some nature
01:35:12
thing, they hear something and it's like, everybody get in the car. We got to get out of
01:35:19
here. Then the motorcycle and the cyclist situation comes up and boom, boom, boom, boom,
01:35:25
boom, like it all kind of culminates in front of the car and that, or maybe they're all ducked
01:35:34
down in the car, like stay quiet or whatever. And they are panicking to get the fuck out of there.
01:35:42
Yes. In the car in such a way that, and I hate it to fucking mention this and the cyclist
01:35:48
is dead, like by the time he hits the ground, but they kind of dragged him a little bit
01:35:53
because they rolled over him. Yeah, like they were in such a hurry to get, they were freaking out to get out of there.
01:35:58
Which means they were killed second yeah okay oh yeah yeah and there was on the on this on Syed's foot on the bottom of his
01:36:09
shoe was the cyclist's blood so he was definitely out of the car at some point oh okay okay sorry
01:36:15
god no no no no this is I mean this couldn't have more details in it it couldn't be more involved
01:36:21
so that basically is like what if it's this that family's coming down out of the woods on the on
01:36:28
the street or whatever their is in the layabout they come upon as they're walking they're not
01:36:34
walking though because this first cyclist that came upon them remembers them passing
01:36:39
him at like like recently they passed him so they pulled into that lay about like like pretty quickly
01:36:49
before they got killed okay so okay so it was they weren't off somewhere maybe they pulled over the
01:36:54
The daughter had to pee. That's why they're both out of the car. Him and his daughter.
01:37:00
Maybe. Why doesn't the mother go? That's weird. Yeah. Especially a seven-year-old.
01:37:07
Yeah. But also, okay, also what happens fast, if they come up on, say it's a guy on a motorcycle
01:37:15
holding a gun on a cyclist. Oh. And they pull over like, this is bad. Because it's the guy who likes to kill cyclists.
01:37:24
Yeah. so he has some weird say it's a cyclist serial killer they come upon the act
01:37:31
the only thing is you wouldn't get out of the car well they wouldn't have pulled over probably
01:37:35
yeah they would have like gunned it for the police but if he was still alive they may have
01:37:42
would they have on a guy with a gun with your family in the car I don't even know if I would do that
01:37:48
I would just fucking drive full force into the gun man but what if the guy you would then become
01:37:53
you're I would probably do that knowing nothing about it you're like I'm probably just
01:37:57
gonna kill this guy but it's the other guy who's the killer and he's like thanks for killing
01:38:01
the other person we're making a short film what are you doing there's a camera next to the motorcycle
01:38:07
the cameraman is dressed like a sniper up in the Jesus Christ yeah dude this one's always
01:38:14
you know I love cold cases and unsolved shit and this one is just like this is exactly why
01:38:18
it's just like I just don't think it's the complicated answers And if there are, if it is one of them, they're very, you can see them being the right answer.
01:38:31
Those two suspects are, you know, it's definitely not the fucking, not that they're engineers
01:38:36
and they had government secrets and it's not the brother. I really, really don't think so.
01:38:40
Well, I mean, I feel like they would have, if they found something at the brother's
01:38:45
house, everyone would know about it because that would be a victory. And they would have, if they could have, they would have pinned anything on that brother
01:38:51
that would have lived in court. And obviously, if there's nothing there, there's nothing there.
01:38:55
And he made a really good point himself. And he's like, he's kind of happy to talk to the news all the time.
01:38:59
He's one of those guys. Yeah. But he was like, if someone were, if they were going to actually be a sniper and a hit
01:39:04
on my brother, why would they kill him in another country with his entire family?
01:39:09
They would have killed him two shots to the head while he was leaving work or like out
01:39:13
and about. They wouldn't have. This is such a messy fucking kill. Yeah. It's not that.
01:39:19
And to kill the whole family, like, for government secrets. Unless it's, I mean, sometimes they do that.
01:39:26
Without killing the main guy. It sounds, yes, exactly right. It's like a mafia thing of, like, teacher lesson.
01:39:32
Yeah, it's not that. Because everybody goes. Everybody there is murdered. But one person is overkilled.
01:39:39
Yeah. It's very interesting, that thing of, like, the very clean military two shots to the head.
01:39:45
Yeah. And two, and it's, it's such, it's like one of the women were shot in the forehead.
01:39:52
Like, it's so exact. They're like a good shoot. Yes. Shoot. A good shoot. And also that they're not ducking.
01:40:00
Like, obviously they're sitting there. And was the little daughter already under her mom's legs?
01:40:06
I bet you that fucking mother was like, get under here. You know, she probably saw what was happening outside the car, had great instincts, jammed
01:40:16
her under there yeah maybe even did it just like the beginning of you pull up and there's weird
01:40:22
yeah some weird vibe happening and it's like get over here by me yeah you know that kind of oh man
01:40:28
that's crazy so the story is that the the brother still sees his nieces uh zanib the older daughter
01:40:39
who had been shot she made a full recovery and she and her younger sister um zina they now live
01:40:45
in England with their maternal aunt and uncle. And the older daughter says she doesn't remember most of the attack.
01:40:51
They're like trying to get her to remember it. Only that she says that there was only one bad man
01:40:55
and she remembers her father screaming to get in the car. Why is she out of the car?
01:41:03
I don't know. That's the Anisek shootings. That means that he was in the car. No, he was out of the car.
01:41:08
Get in the car. Yeah, out of the car. Let's get in the car. So maybe she did run out to pee.
01:41:14
yeah and he and he yeah he just got out good god i know that's we're gonna find out i feel like
01:41:24
we're gonna find out and have an update on this it's so intense it's also that frustrating thing
01:41:29
of like somebody say you i don't remember you said what uh like nationality they were
01:41:35
or they were from iraq so things like that happen and people are victimized by a killer
01:41:42
But it suddenly goes into victim blaming. Yes. You're a terrorist. What did you do?
01:41:49
What secrets did you steal? Right. Like anytime a fucking Muslim gets killed it because well what did you do What terror cell did you belong to Where it like no Also think of like how many people not people I know but like how
01:42:05
many people have jobs where you could kind of connect it back to something. Everybody
01:42:11
has secrets. Everybody has something mysterious in their life or in their past that you, that
01:42:17
if you chose to look at that and blow it up, you could, I mean, Jesus. Yes. That's the thing. And this is what we talked about earlier is just that the racial profiling will never make it fair to any of any kind of racial profiling, no matter what it is.
01:42:31
It's like it's never going to make it fair to if I can to it's never going to get you answers.
01:42:36
No, it's well, the the main problem with it is there is we all suffer from implicit bias because our brain makes decisions for us.
01:42:47
It's old, it's reptilian, but it's that thing where you have to decide, are you safe or not?
01:42:53
And why? And that implicit bias, culturally, we have been told for years, people of a certain ilk,
01:42:59
people of a certain color are dangerous. That's the messaging. And that is the messaging.
01:43:05
And even different. Just so we don't even know how to, we don't know how to, what's it called?
01:43:11
Anticipate what their actions are going to be because we don't know who they are.
01:43:14
They're different somehow when really they're just humans. Yes. Well, and it's that you've seen the video of like the white boy with an AK 47 in the middle of the street and the cops are like, put the gun down, put the gun down.
01:43:24
And they wait and they talk to him and it goes on and fucking on and everything.
01:43:28
And they finally get the gun away from him. That's because they look at that person that looks like them and they're like, this is fine.
01:43:34
We can handle that threat. Meanwhile, you've got a person who is a registered gun over gun owner who pulls over and there is a child in the car.
01:43:46
and they fucking shoot, shoot into a car. Seven times, like 30 seconds after he gets pulled over.
01:43:53
30 seconds after he's pulled over. And the fucking cop gets acquitted. Yeah. Jesus Christ.
01:44:01
I mean, the only good part about it, not that there's a good part about that murder.
01:44:07
Right. The good part about the world we live in now and as hard as it is to live in the world we live in now
01:44:12
is just like after, you know, this is a, it's going to sound bad when I first say it, but like
01:44:19
after a facial, when all of a sudden you're, you're so broken out that it's insane.
01:44:23
Pulls all the shit up. It's the same fucking thing is for years, people said to black people, there's no such thing as
01:44:31
racial profiling. There's no, you don't get pulled over as much. I get, it's all the same,
01:44:36
all lives matter bullshit. Nobody can say, I mean, people will say that still, they'll insist,
01:44:41
but I think more and more people are waking up to the fact this is an undeniable truth about a
01:44:47
large swath of our population who are pinpointed and victimized because of the way they look and
01:44:55
not just victimized like uh somebody was rude to me they're fucking being murdered yeah in the
01:45:01
street yeah and murder is the murder is the word it's not it's murder yeah I remember telling we
01:45:07
my sister and i were talking about it and i was like i just read a thing i don't want to uh he was
01:45:15
he was a he's the lunch man at a school and he knew he knew all the allergies the kids who had
01:45:21
allergies he knew them he made sure that they didn't get that food that no like a peanut allergy
01:45:25
or whatever like he did just this idea that we're just taking out people based based on and and it's
01:45:33
It's the, uh, uh, some, there's a really good quote of, um, the, the bad cops should be
01:45:43
afraid of the good cops and not the other way around. Yeah. It's this thing of not all cops are this way, but the ones that are, we have to stop saying
01:45:53
that's okay that they are. Yeah. If you're trained, you, the training needs to be such that you don't just murder people
01:46:00
cause you're scared. Right. And even if the guy was a fucking drug dealer and not a fucking school teacher or the lunch guy, it's like you still can't fucking shoot him.
01:46:09
You can't murder people. Without any just cause. Right. It's that, yeah, man. Because you're having a reaction.
01:46:17
Right. Because you're scared because you're not a human in the fucking world. Let's sit here tonight and solve this.
01:46:27
Yeah. Let's sit here. I mean, it's so frustrating. And also just the person we're talking about is Philando Castile, who was murdered.
01:46:34
Yeah. And so we should say that name. Yeah. You know, let's stop murdering each other.
01:46:42
Ironically enough, let's stop murdering each other. Let's have the good people like us.
01:46:49
Steven, be in charge. Like us? Fuck no. Are you crazy? We're such good people. And we're back. Are there updates for this case?
01:47:02
There are updates. It's such a confounding case. On February 5th of this year, 2025, French investigators introduced a new theory in this case that the family were targets of a seasoned former soldier who was trained by the Swiss Special Forces.
01:47:18
The soldier appeared to be staying at a campsite near the family and left the day of the murders.
01:47:24
French investigators say they can track the same individual to a campsite six miles away from the murder of Xavier Baligant.
01:47:30
That occurred one year prior to the Annecy murders. Xavier was murdered 300 miles away from Annecy.
01:47:37
This murder also occurred using a rare Swiss weapon. Police had also been investigating the potential theory that serial killer Norlin Lelandais, an ex-soldier who was the main suspect in other murders that occurred in the area.
01:47:49
Leland Davis has been in custody since 2017 and is suspected of kidnapping and murdering a young girl and killing a hitchhiker In 2020 investigators received a judicial expertise report back from a British forensic psychiatrist with a profile of the gunman suspected in the
01:48:06
Annecy shootings. It said he was probably in his 30s to 40s, was accustomed to failure,
01:48:11
lived alone, was underemployed, and had a previous criminal record. Then in April of 2020, Zainab told her aunt she remembered being grabbed by a man of average build
01:48:22
who had bitten fingernails. And a year later, she gave more details saying she remembered a man shouting at her
01:48:28
to get back in the car before a fair-skinned man dressed in leather grabbed her.
01:48:34
And that same year, her younger sister described the attacker as a bald, fair-skinned European male
01:48:38
between the ages of 45 to 55 with badly shaven facial hair, blue eyes, and gray hairs on his round face.
01:48:47
And actually, Benedict Cumberbatch is set to produce a six-part limited series based on the events called the Annecy murders.
01:48:53
So hopefully that'll do what the Yogurt Shop documentary did and bring more attention to this case.
01:48:58
So they'll put more resources on it and hopefully it can finally get solved. Yeah, that'd be amazing.
01:49:06
Okay, well, now let's head back so we can wrap up the show. All right, well, do you have anything fucking positive in this one?
01:49:15
You go. Now I'm mad. Oh, no. Okay. Well, so I'm trying to stay off social media at night, especially because I have insomnia and it's really fucked up and it makes it makes it worse when I read stuff.
01:49:27
It's all bad news. It's just all bad news. So I'm trying to read more because I really love reading.
01:49:32
And I realize it's just become this thing that I don't fucking do anymore because I'm so like reading a book.
01:49:37
Yeah. Reading a book, which is like one of my fucking joys in life, aside from cats.
01:49:43
So I found two now, which I'm really excited about. And so I like toggle, which I never do this. I'm like toggling between them because one's spooky and creepy and one's like not.
01:49:55
So the two I'm reading right now, we talked about this. She did a story on one of our minisodes, but it's called Startup by Dori Schaffer.
01:50:05
It's I like just started reading it and I'm like more than halfway done. It's so fucking good. It's about like these fucked up tech people in the modern world.
01:50:15
and what will make you want to do is like not ever look at your phone again so it's really helpful
01:50:19
it's a novel or yeah it's a novel and it's like it's like millennial techies in new york and how
01:50:27
and it's these different stories about each of them and it's just like it makes you glad for
01:50:32
who you are anyways and this is she's married to matt myra yes that's how i know who she i've never
01:50:38
met her yeah but i know her husband and she's like a senior tech editor at buzzfeed for years so she's
01:50:44
like this book is clearly like really well done. It's, it's really fucking intriguing and good. And
01:50:49
I love it. And then the creepy fucking scary one that I'm totally I can't read that late because
01:50:53
I'm scared is called. It's called Black Mad Wheel. And it's by Josh Mallerman, which is actually a
01:51:01
friend of Vince's from Michigan. And he wrote this incredible book called The Bird Box that's creepy
01:51:06
and fucked up and post apocalyptic. And this one's Black Mad Wheel. And it's fucking creepy. And it's
01:51:12
about like this noise that the government comes to like make this dude who's a musician find out
01:51:17
where the noise is coming from because it's like making nuclear shit not work anymore and it's just
01:51:23
like super spooky oh yeah that's awesome so fucking reading and getting out of this is making is
01:51:30
helping me that's good yeah that's very good what about you um the positive thing oh well this is
01:51:38
Okay, I will say it this way. So one night, and we've talked about it on the podcast, I crashed my car as I was leaving our recording.
01:51:47
Totaled it. I totaled the old Honda Fit. It got totaled. You didn't total it. Yeah, that's true.
01:51:54
It was in a car accident that then totaled the, because it was relatively worthless.
01:51:59
If only dog hair was worth money, it would have been the most expensive car in Los Angeles, but not the case.
01:52:06
So since that time, and I think that was last November or December, it was a long time ago.
01:52:14
I haven't had a car. So I've been like taking Lyft and taking over and just doing whatever for a while at a rental car.
01:52:20
And I was spending so much money a week, like an idiot, like whatever. Well, I finally called my sister because then I started researching cars and car prices and which ones are reliable, whatever.
01:52:32
And then it got worse. So overwhelming. Then I could not make a decision. And I was like, but I'm not a BMW person, but I don't want to buy.
01:52:40
I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a kind of mediocre whatever. Finally, I called my sister because I was going to go home for Father's Day.
01:52:47
I did go home for Father's Day. I called my sister and I was like, can you please help me?
01:52:53
And she, I think for so long, like my mom was sick for so long and we were all so stressed
01:52:59
out for so long and we were all just trying to get by for so long that like my sister
01:53:04
and I would fight over nothing. And then we would have to like, stop talking for a while
01:53:08
because it was just bad. It was bad. Tension, tension and guilt and like everything. It was
01:53:13
like, nobody's, nobody was happy for 12 years. Um, and that was, it ended two years ago. Uh,
01:53:22
you know, you know, which is a good thing. Um, ultimately. So, but, but I finally realized
01:53:29
this is one of the main things my sister and I fight about is how fucking controlling she is.
01:53:34
Like I have to ask her to unlock the car door so I can get out. And it makes me so mad.
01:53:39
Like I have all these, I have all these things where like, if the car door is locked, when
01:53:45
I try to get out of it, I am immediately enraged. I'm the same way when I try to get into it.
01:53:49
You're coming to pick me up or we're walking to the car together and, and I have, and I
01:53:53
try to open the handle and it doesn fucking open And you know I there dude I totally get it Like why I just the like pull up of the handle and it doesn open immediately makes me furious How dare you
01:54:10
And, and for me, the pull of the car door and it doesn't open is like immediately I want to scream.
01:54:16
I'm not six years old, like a six year old would. So anyway, I just texted my sister or called her.
01:54:23
I can't remember. And I said, please help me buy a car. And she fucking basically delivered a new
01:54:30
car into my hands. And it was so awesome because I felt guilty. I was only going up for this
01:54:35
basically 48 hours for to see my dad. I knew that was going to take a huge chunk of time,
01:54:41
which would in the past make her mad, but not, she couldn't act mad. So it would be like,
01:54:45
yeah. Oh God sister. So instead I was like, can you please help me? Like I can't take another
01:54:52
Uber. And she was like, I got you. And delivered. Some people are just, we're all good at something
01:54:59
different. Well, exactly. And she goes, I said, thank you for momming me through this. And she
01:55:04
was like, it's my favorite thing to do. It's like, we basically figured out the good points of those
01:55:10
things instead of all the, always the bad. You used her, her powers of being a control freak for
01:55:16
good. Yes. And I got to get my baby. Somebody helped me out. And it worked. And it worked.
01:55:27
You asked for help and it was delivered. And I didn't get kicked in the goddamn teeth.
01:55:33
So anyway, now I have a new car and I love it. And I can make phone calls from my steering wheel
01:55:37
and all these things that modern people get to do. You just got a flip phone and taped it,
01:55:42
duct taped it to your steering wheel. I got a new phone and I mean, I got a new car and it has a
01:55:47
phone in it. No, it's a fucking sweet car and it's made me want to buy a new car too. It's nice.
01:55:53
It's, um, well also just, you have to have a car. You have to, I mean, I was, I would do things like
01:55:58
I wouldn't have groceries and I'd be like, I have to figure out the next time I go to Georgia's
01:56:02
and I take an Uber home. First I'm going to, I'm going to walk to the grocery store and then I'll
01:56:08
get the uber like shit like that where it's like this is hey let's make my life harder that's what
01:56:13
i'm all about i like to stack problems and never solve my therapist is like spend your fucking
01:56:20
money even if like whatever money you have spend a little chunk of it to make your life
01:56:25
fucking easier because you're always stressed out about making about life being hard that's right
01:56:30
you can't it's so true like you have to remind yourself of the good part of what you have like
01:56:38
There's lots of things to be stressed out about. If you work really hard and you work all the time and that's your life, I get it.
01:56:44
And I do the same thing. Take the money that you make. And instead of being paranoid about not having this or that, spend that money so you understand what the good part about working hard is for.
01:56:56
Dude, and it's happened to me today. Get your fucking house cleaned professionally or apartment cleaned once a month.
01:57:03
I don't care how small your apartment is. It's fucking brain changing. yeah that's a good idea it's brain changing i'm gonna do that chemistry change also i have to get
01:57:14
a handyman to come and pick up the couch that's just laying on my patio that would make sense
01:57:20
i'm a little sanford and son at my house just because i can't it's that thing i'm gonna have
01:57:25
i'm gonna have to call my sister stuff like that's hard it's hard sometimes man we're just
01:57:28
everyone's just doing our best yeah everyone's trying to do steven's best but that's too high
01:57:34
I wish I could do Stephen's best. Stephen, if you owned a truck, you could take care of these problems for me.
01:57:39
Oh, you know, he would do it tomorrow. Do you want to buy me a truck? Yes. Rinse Stephen a U-Haul.
01:57:46
Laura, get Stephen a truck. Laura! Laura. Okay, we are back. So this episode was originally titled Jews vs. Catholics.
01:57:57
So if we were naming it today, maybe we would call it... A milkmaid's constitution, which is my joke that that's how Mary Ashford stayed out all night.
01:58:06
Or we could call it Georgia's early rave days, the remix that Stephen made. And then, of course, AKA corn, which is the joke we made about maize.
01:58:15
All right. Thank you guys for listening to another episode of Rewind. Let's say goodbye back in the good old shitty days of 2017.
01:58:27
You guys, more than anything, thank you for fucking listening. and being good people, hopefully.
01:58:33
Even you skippers. Skippers. And especially you Satanists. Yay. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered.
01:58:40
Elvis, you want a cookie? Bye. Bye. Hey, everyone. It's Cal Penn. I'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club
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