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Vital Farms. Good eggs, no shortcuts. Goodbye. My Savior Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.
00:02:15
Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows with all new commentary and insights and updates.
00:02:21
Today, we're recapping episode 75, which we named Breakfast Wine. This episode came out June 29th, 2017.
00:02:29
All right, let's get into it. Let's listen to the intro of episode 75. Karen. Yes.
00:02:36
Hi. Is this an ad? No. Can I talk to you about a food delivery system? It's called your mouth and it delivers food.
00:02:46
It's called your hand. It's called your hand. It's called a fork. And we're advertising that today.
00:02:51
Deliver that shit. It's up into your mouth. Hi, welcome to My Favorite Murder. Hi, welcome to Grand Murder. That's Karen.
00:02:58
Hi, that's Karen. And that's Georgia. Hi, guys. Hi. Thanks for tuning in. It's a late one tonight.
00:03:07
It's a late night. It's kind of a sultry, hot Los Angeles night. We have to record late because of my work.
00:03:15
We've got some mood lighting. It's actually not mood. It's just lighting. It's just a bit of lighting.
00:03:21
It's just pure lighting. We've got an Unsolved Mysteries paused on the TV. Oh, shit.
00:03:25
I forgot to turn that off. It looks like decoration, kind of. Can you get... Okay, so it's paused on, like, a woman walking through a graveyard.
00:03:33
She's very 80. She's got feathered hair and, like, a black, flowy dress. And she looks very forlorn.
00:03:39
What do you think? Also, her dress is belted, and she's got a great waist. Yeah.
00:03:43
Jealous of that waist. She looks amazing. And she clearly put on a lot of blue eyeshadow before she went out.
00:03:48
You had to back then. It was kind of like your way of saying, hey, I'm out here.
00:03:52
Cars don't run me over. I'm single. I'm super sad, but I'm also living my life. Just because I'm at the cemetery doesn't mean I'm not
00:04:01
going to bring it 100. I'm not a saying they didn't have in the 80s. They didn't.
00:04:07
I'm not a mess. I always wonder what would happen if you went back in time, went to the
00:04:11
80s, and then used the sayings from today? Would people think you're cool or insane? Or from Germany.
00:04:18
Right. Those are the only three choices. How are you? I would like to go back to the 80s.
00:04:23
and just tell myself, just relax a little bit. Oh my God. You don't have to talk so much.
00:04:30
Yeah. I would like to say, stop fucking caring. Stop caring. You can't do that though when you're a teen.
00:04:38
No. There's too many chemicals in your brain. But I was in elementary school and I wish I'd stop caring.
00:04:45
I went to a new psychiatrist this week and she did this thing where she like asked me
00:04:50
questions like a half an hour, which I love, but they were all questions where I had to
00:04:53
be like yeah i guess i do feel like i had to admit a lot of shit and like i had it she's like and
00:05:00
when you were a kid how did i how did you feel and i'm like well i guess i hated myself like i had
00:05:05
that feeling yeah you delayed all on the line to this woman i just met yeah it's like this nice
00:05:10
older woman like old nice lady who ignored me completely when i was like mom my sex drive's
00:05:15
kind of down she was just like moving on to the next part like i'm not she's like i'm not talking
00:05:20
about that. Wow. Well, she was Armenian too, so I think she was just this kind of proper,
00:05:25
nice Armenian woman. What if she was like, here's the thing, we're going to cure that
00:05:30
sex drive, and it's going to be out of you entirely. You're going to be balls deep
00:05:33
and fucking... Oh, no, I was thinking the opposite, where she was just like, that's all we're
00:05:38
going to concentrate on. Oh, she's like, we're saving that for its own day. Yeah. Separate
00:05:42
sex day? Yeah. God, I'd love to hear about that when it happens. Sex day? Yeah. I mean,
00:05:48
today's, right now, sex day. Is it? Oh, you got the cure? I don know what that meant Um I don either I just trying to improv your sex talk Here look here the first thing i need to tell you steven and everybody in america okay of course there are italian jews i know of
00:06:08
course there are italian jews we knew that we were kidding i mean i don't i i think i was just kind
00:06:13
of wondering aloud but man did the italian jews come out in droves to let me know that they exist
00:06:18
me too and i have to oh fuck i don't have her name but someone wrote of course there are italian
00:06:24
Jews. I'm one of them. Think of us as the pizza bagels of religion. And that's just
00:06:32
like, whoa, that was perfect. Or is that racist? Well, if she's the one saying it and it's her thing,
00:06:40
doesn't she get to describe herself however she wants? And also it's like, well, you're talking about a bagel, which is a Jewish thing.
00:06:46
You're talking about pizza, which is an Italian thing, you know, traditionally. And so
00:06:50
it's not like it's... Yes, it totally makes sense. Anyways, go on. It is a logical joke.
00:06:56
Let me backtrack. And it's a good joke. Steven. So, yeah, that's, I mean, we might need to cut corrections corner out entirely.
00:07:05
It keeps going this direction. The corrections corner is that we're cutting out corrections corner.
00:07:09
Here's the correction we need to make. We need to stop talking about it. No, but this was a real, real good email that Steven just gave me.
00:07:19
Subject line is, my dad was John Orr's partner. So this was, I think, from two episodes ago.
00:07:25
John Orr was the arsonist, arson investigator in Glendale, California. It was Glendale, right?
00:07:33
Yeah. Okay. So here's this email. Howdy. Hey, howdy. Hey. That's the greeting. So I'm driving to work and I have been listening to your podcast from the beginning.
00:07:43
I hadn't listened in a few days and I started off with the mini episode and you started
00:07:47
mentioning John Orr. My mouth dropped open and suddenly I was in a car searching for the podcast where you talk about the arsonist John Orr and I couldn't believe it.
00:07:55
You were talking about a man who I grew up with, who was my dad's partner at the fire station.
00:08:02
My dad worked for the Glendale Police Department and the two were paired up so that they would have a police officer and a fireman to investigate possible fires that had been started by arsonists.
00:08:11
They were partners for six to ten years and we knew John and his family. the entire time he had been setting fires right under my dad's nose.
00:08:19
My dad does recall that there were times when my dad was the one who was on call for the weekend
00:08:25
in case of any fires were suspicious. They were on call most of the time and would race to the scene of the fire.
00:08:32
And most of the time, John would show up saying things like, I thought you might need my help.
00:08:37
My dad would get so annoyed, but we now know why he was there. My dad and a few of the men with some of the 10 people you spoke of were board members of the CCAI, California Conference of Arson Investigators, who attended all of the arson seminars in Fresno, in Monterey.
00:08:59
And as a matter of fact, they were once John's peers. As I was listening to your podcast, I just wanted to scream and say, oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh.
00:09:09
And I so badly wish I could have called in. That would be me. If we had a call-in show?
00:09:15
Yeah. We could have done one episode where I have a call-in. I mean, that's so hilarious.
00:09:20
Just someone screaming. Screaming. I know who that is. There was so much to this entire story.
00:09:27
My dad stopped being his partner before he was caught and arrested. My dad did have to testify against him and was investigated because John Orr was his partner.
00:09:37
You spoke of him possibly being a psychopath. And I recall my dad telling me different stories about how in different situations, how indifferent he would act toward different things.
00:09:48
So I think there's something to that, a definite lack of empathy. I've never seen the forensic files on his story.
00:09:54
And I remember when the movie was released. Of course, no one in my family saw it.
00:09:59
The book you spoke of was really disheartening because the man who wrote it mentions my dad several times because John spoke of my dad.
00:10:06
John and the author were not kind. The author of the book never once spoke to my dad, and most of the book is John's opinion.
00:10:13
He is a psycho and deserves to be locked up in jail for the rest of his life. I think he is crazy because I never thought that there would be anything that would speak of that you would speak of that would have anything to do with me at all.
00:10:28
And so you bring up the one story that I could say anything about. I went to work and told everyone the story.
00:10:33
Still, my jaws dropped open. You left me speechless. Rock on with your bad selves and don't play with matches.
00:10:39
That's all hugs from the sexy murderino tea. Oh, my God. I love it. That's hilarious.
00:10:45
That's crazy. I mean, are the fucking chances? Well, also, I mean, as we now know, pretty much everyone we talk to, everybody is one.
00:10:56
Oh, yeah. Basically one step away from a murderer murderer experience. In my story tonight, there's there's a murderino involvement.
00:11:04
Really? Yeah. which is like so exciting. That's very cool. I wanted to tell you,
00:11:09
speaking of one step away and hand to mouth consumption. So you did the Zanku chicken murders
00:11:16
a while back. Yeah. And a couple nights ago or a while back, Vince got Zanku chicken
00:11:22
and we of course got extra and saved the fucking amazing garlic sauce that they give you with it
00:11:27
that's like fucking known all over the city. I made a martini with it. With the garlic sauce?
00:11:33
Yeah. Clearly it was after one martini. How was it? Huh? It was good. I mean, it was gross.
00:11:42
It was good. It was gross. You know what I mean? I'm just trying to picture it. Was it like floating inside the martini?
00:11:48
No, no, no. I like stirred it up really well, so it was like a garlic-infused martini.
00:11:52
Oh, okay. With a fucking garlic olive with it Well that sounds good It was like a dirty martini but with Zankou chicken garlic sauce Kind of strong tasting I would imagine Yeah it was good I like garlic Because that sauce is I mean you taste it for days after you eat it
00:12:07
Yeah, you belch that for fucking days. Good for you, though. Just want to let you know.
00:12:12
I love it. Anything else? I just want to bring up the hilarious person who mentioned on Twitter yesterday or today,
00:12:19
hey, don't you think Steven kind of sounds like Tina Belcher? and I could not stop laughing
00:12:25
and then a barrage of people were sending gifts of Tina Belcher going like yeah baby and it was so
00:12:31
hilarious. Let me hear it. Tell me about it. It's done. Man this is a short fucking intro. We're getting right into it.
00:12:39
It's a late night. Let's just do it. It is a late night. This is a skipper's dream show.
00:12:43
Come on. You don't even have to skip. Steven who's first? It's you. Am I right? Yeah you've been on it.
00:12:52
Oh, I'm sorry. Am I not good enough? You're not good enough. This is the episode where we tell you that.
00:13:00
But we're going to do it subtly through me naming who goes first. I know it's tough to hear.
00:13:07
I mean, I've always known. It's like you're not telling elementary school Georgia anything new.
00:13:13
Oh, no. Let her come out. I want to speak to 11-year-old Georgia right now. Okay.
00:13:19
Tell her to tell that psychiatrist that you want to talk about sex ASAP. Is that creepy to talk about?
00:13:25
I feel like I'm my own mom when your mom talks about sex. And you're like, what?
00:13:29
My mom, Janet, what? I'm young. My mom being the nurse, she'd always be like, girls, it's natural.
00:13:36
And we'd just be like, ew. It was totally like a woman's body. The chemicals in a woman's body are very special.
00:13:44
Women have needs and wants too. Get me out of this carpool. when you call it the female orgasm.
00:13:51
There's something about the female orgasm. The female orgasm has a little pink bow
00:13:56
on the side. Oh, it's adorable and quiet and it's just easy and it smells like baby
00:14:02
powder. Moving on. And then you gotta move on from the sex. From the real orgasm.
00:14:09
That's right. The man orgasm. And we don't call it the man orgasm. That's right.
00:14:12
It's just the orgasm. But the female fries up. All right. Okay. So the other night I couldn't sleep.
00:14:23
And as always, I click on any fucking article that is about some kind of case or murder
00:14:29
or horrible thing that's going to make me not be able to sleep. Yep. Which I already can't do.
00:14:33
Right. So I found one called the 18 creepy murder cases you've never heard of that'll fuck you
00:14:41
up on BuzzFeed. Oh, I read that. Did you? Well, I read one that was murder cases that you've never heard before because I always
00:14:48
love to read them and be like, I've heard of this. I was just going to say, oh yeah, try me.
00:14:53
I always do this. Heard of it. Or when it's like the craziest 911 call murders and it's like, I fucking knew that one.
00:15:00
It's not that crazy. You don't know what crazy is. Then you have the assholes in the comments that are like,
00:15:06
he forgot this murder. They didn't forget it. They didn't fucking put it in because it's not that, you know.
00:15:12
It's almost like no matter what is happening, whoever's coming toward that article is going to be
00:15:16
an asshole about it. Like we are. Yes, exactly. And that's leading the pack. But shout out, because at least half of them I didn't know.
00:15:24
So this is from 18 creepy murder cases you've never heard of. That'll fuck you up.
00:15:28
Okay. I almost did one off of this list. I swear to God. And at the last minute, I just didn't do it.
00:15:35
This one's boring. But go ahead. I live for the week we do the same murder. God damn it.
00:15:39
I know. What happens? The world explodes. It's just, it'll be a ton of laughing.
00:15:44
And then we'll like, I don't know, we'll do something totally different. And we'll never do the podcast again.
00:15:47
What if Steven, here it is, Steven, at some point in your job that you are now currently being paid for, you write up two murders and you keep them in a file in your big backpack.
00:16:00
And then if there's a day ever comes where we do the same murder, you pull out the two mystery murders and then we have to read those.
00:16:09
No, because I, go ahead. No, just from like zero, like you're just like, here you go.
00:16:14
Yep. Yeah. You guys are good to go. No, but I love the idea of us doing the same murder.
00:16:18
We'd crack the fuck up. We'd freak the fuck out. Like, how did we both know this?
00:16:22
I guess you're right. We'd just do it simultaneously as opposed to one after the other.
00:16:26
Yeah. It would just be like paragraph by paragraph. I think it'd be so fun. I think people who don't like our speech patterns would hate us, but I think it'd be really fun.
00:16:34
I do too. I'm like looking forward to it. Okay, Stephen, cancel that assignment.
00:16:38
And instead, could you just pre-prepare others? Yeah. You know what, Stephen? You know what I want you to do?
00:16:44
I want you to fucking get like one of those. I want you to get like party supplies, like loud making party supplies, glitter thing.
00:16:50
And the day that we have the same murder, I want you to fucking shoot glitter at us and blow one of those blow.
00:16:56
You know, and like put a party hat on all of us. You know what that means, Stephen?
00:16:59
That means since you never know when it could happen, you always have to have a pocket full of glitter and a blower in your other pocket.
00:17:06
Party hats for all of us. He's reaching in his bag right now. I wish you guys could see Stephen's backpack.
00:17:15
Oh my God. It is the biggest backpack I've ever seen. It's a gen sport. I think it's standard sized, but there's something about what Stephen carries in it or whatever
00:17:23
he's doing that it honestly looks like it. It looks like a four year old baby and Mimi could fit in there.
00:17:28
And it's one of those ones that you see on like the late night news. Like, is your kid's backpack screwing up?
00:17:33
It's back. Tune in at 11 to find out. I love that they would call the kid it. and screwing up that's the that's the news i want to watch screwing up its back maybe you
00:17:47
should get rid of it what a pain in the ass that thing is jesus gonna have back problems now just
00:17:52
like you you fucking asshole why are you reproducing why did you reproduce wow that a long weak spine child can we cut that segment a little bit short Fine No I mean the news No I know Okay not you I was continuing the improv but I went too real with my character
00:18:08
and then I always blur the line like that. I meant like, okay. We should never you.
00:18:15
We should never you, always us. Always the news. Always the news characters. It's always their problem.
00:18:20
If we took one improv class, imagine. How annoying we would be. Imagine how we would heighten and expand.
00:18:27
Yes. And we'd lose so many listeners. Okay, let's play Zip, Zab, Zop, and then we'll start.
00:18:35
Oh, no. You know, like, maybe one-third of the fucking listeners understood that.
00:18:40
Yes. I don't know. I think improv and comedy are taking over the world. I think it's required now.
00:18:47
Yeah. That if you're 24, you've graduated from college, you don't have a job, you have to take a class at UCB.
00:18:52
You learn well in group settings. Yeah. You kind of feel lost and you're like, I need a circle of dudes to stand in.
00:18:58
Yeah. And one woman, one token woman to objectify. Who's really funny. Who's really funny, but she's not super hot and doesn't wear skirts.
00:19:08
You might have to wait to see her for a while. Yeah. So she's like a bro. So I just keep doing improv scenes where I have to touch her butt.
00:19:14
What is happening? What character are you now? Is it the same news anchor? Yeah.
00:19:18
That goes fucked up. Wow. Yeah. Okay. And we are back. Seems like we might need to keep a running tally of how many times I insist that we discuss Italian people.
00:19:35
Because it happens a lot to this day. We love those Italian people. It's fun to talk about.
00:19:40
I want to say one thing. When I was reading through the transcript and thinking about this episode,
00:19:45
and I mentioned this psychiatrist that I had seen blowing off something very important to me that I said,
00:19:51
and I remember that psychiatrist. you should find a psychiatrist who takes your shit seriously this woman I went to her a couple
00:19:58
times and I stopped going to her and I never got the help I needed from her and I think that that
00:20:03
was such a like a moment when I back in 2017 that I didn't think about at the time of like
00:20:09
or maybe I knew but didn't process that she totally blew me off when I was telling her
00:20:14
important things for myself like that mattered when it came to medication absolutely and the
00:20:20
psychiatrist I went to after her in the same practice, I told her, you know, she said this
00:20:25
and this and this to me, like she had said to me, why are you upset? You're so put together.
00:20:30
Because I had like a dress on and I was like, oh, okay, that's not good. That's a weird thing for a friend to say.
00:20:38
Yeah. Much less a psychiatrist. Yeah. So I just want to be clear that it's funny back then, but you got to find a psychiatrist
00:20:45
who takes your issues seriously. Absolutely. And that you get to whatever that preference is. Even if what she said was like, why are you upset? I like your dress. Or, you know what I mean? Even if it seemed whatever, if it's hitting a weird chord with you, you're right.
00:21:00
Right. Because if you actually put it in the world of, oh, well, I'm not qualified the way they're qualified, you'll always lose that. And in that specific conversation, you can't hold those normal standards. You have to go with, how does it feel? Am I comfortable? Do I like talking to this person?
00:21:17
Right. I mean, it's also funny, like having to revisit these episodes where we didn't know what we were saying was going to be such a problem. Like now we look at it or read it or see it and they were just like, oh, no, we're opening the door for people to act mad at us or say they're mad at us.
00:21:35
But like saying the line about the pizza bagel, saying that out loud, it's like it shouldn't be a problem because the context is there.
00:21:44
Right. And the context is really important unless, of course, people are kind of looking for things to be upset about.
00:21:51
Yeah. Where it's like we're talking about Jewish Italian people. The pizza bagel part is just part of that conversation.
00:21:58
It's not a bad thing. Right. Neither of those foods are bad. And someone referred to themselves as that.
00:22:03
I think it's very funny as a Jewish person that I'm not Italian. So maybe it's, I don't know, maybe it's not, but I think it's funny.
00:22:11
Literally two of the like appointment foods that I make when I go to New York City, pizza
00:22:16
and bagel, they're winning the food wars. Those two items. Those are positives. Those cultures.
00:22:23
You're not calling me a salad or like a sad salad or something like I'm okay with that.
00:22:28
Yeah. They're two of the culturally most successful foods, whatever. I don't know. People should get to say whatever they want about themselves.
00:22:37
We can't explain it. It's never going to be explained away to someone who wants to get upset about it.
00:22:42
Right. But it is kind of interesting, John Orr's relative writing in to basically be like, hey, that book was a bunch of bullshit against my dad.
00:22:51
That was a very new thing for us in that moment. That was really interesting that like, yeah, a listener got information from a parent or, you know, someone they knew that was involved in the case and got it from their side. And that is so interesting and realizing that we could get that. It was really exciting, I think, to hear that. And, you know.
00:23:10
Instead of it being almost like reality TV fan talkback content, it's more like, could you please try to be more like journalists where they're like, what would be fair if this person's family heard it? What would be fair if this person's family? Like kind of being a little more conscientious in that way, or just at least after the fact, if people have something to say, they get to speak to. I think that it felt good to be able to give an update that somebody wanted to give.
00:23:36
Yeah, no, it was really cool. Yeah. Okay, now we're going to get into Georgia's story about the mainline murders.
00:23:47
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00:26:57
Quince.com slash MFM. Goodbye. Now let's get into murder. Now let's please. All right.
00:27:04
So 18 criminal murders, blah, blah, blah. Thanks by the feed because you helped me a lot.
00:27:08
Karen, Ardmore, Pennsylvania. Okay, this is a really fucked up case that I'd really never heard of.
00:27:15
And I was shocked because it's fucking crazy. So it's okay. Early 70s, a woman named Susan Reinhart.
00:27:24
She's a pretty kind of mousy looking 30-something year old English teacher at Upper Marion Area High School in the mainline suburbs.
00:27:33
Oh, by the way, this is called the Mainline Murders. God damn it. That's okay. I'm just going to open with that.
00:27:38
It's about 20 minutes from Philadelphia. Susan is married with two children and she's having an affair.
00:27:45
Yes. Sorry. With the chair of the English department. With a chair? No. Like Clint Eastwood in that speech she gave?
00:27:53
Sorry. Remember how I was screaming at the chair in my psychologist recently? She's having an affair with that chair.
00:27:58
Oh my God, really? She's doing role play with a chair and then it got out of hand
00:28:01
and she's like, I'm going to fuck this chair. Yeah. Got serious. She left her husband for the chair.
00:28:07
Steven, we have to pull all of this out. All right. So imagine at a high school, just picture the chair of the English department.
00:28:18
Okay. Tweed vest. Tweed vest in the seventies, heavy beard, very large beard and maybe some,
00:28:24
um, like aviator shaped glasses that are indoor, outdoor, what do you call those? Transition lens
00:28:32
glasses. And, and Susan herself, there's like not a lot of photos of her, but she's like cute and
00:28:36
mousy and you can tell she's kind of probably soft-spoken and she has these the like the
00:28:41
eyeglasses that are just take up half of her face they're like saucers on her face right which like
00:28:46
looks cute and it's like cool and it's very something like yeah maybe just when contact
00:28:51
lenses started when the contact lenses were as big as glasses frame yes glasses lenses anyway
00:28:57
you just had to cram them in your eyeball you were just shoving huge thing they're made of glass
00:29:01
Is that true? Can you tell me? It was when, if it fell out at a party, people could help you find it.
00:29:08
That's how big they were. I was always proud of myself how good I was at finding my mom's contacts.
00:29:13
Such a weird... That era just is gone. Okay. So she's boning the chair of the English department.
00:29:20
But I think, here's the thing. I think he's a Ted Bundy type. This English department chair.
00:29:25
Yeah. His name? Okay. So then he might have been, sorry, but he might have been going toward her.
00:29:31
then. Yeah. Okay. And she's having an affair. She has two children. Um, his name is Bill Bradford.
00:29:37
The guy. Nope. His name is Bill Bradfield. Okay. His name is Bill Bradfield. I'm going to call him
00:29:44
Bill. Okay. Okay. So Susan is the woman, Bill's the fucking creep English department head,
00:29:49
and he's super charismatic and charming. He's described by some of the other teachers as a
00:29:54
pseudo who was quote full of himself So he like a Ted Bundy charming He like 10 years older than her She swept off her feet by him
00:30:05
And she's just like probably like, I've never felt. She's never had a female orgasm until she met him.
00:30:10
I bet you. For a second, I thought that was in the BuzzFeed article. I was just like, huh?
00:30:15
Wait, what? Also, if he's a pseudo-intellectual, I bet you he carried a pipe around with him.
00:30:22
Pipe, tweed, elbow pads, some kind of transition lenses. A heavy cologne. I bet he put like oil in his beard.
00:30:31
Yeah. You know, cultivated his beard. Really trimmed it up every morning. And he probably had like really expensive whiskey.
00:30:38
Right. And he had a book of erotic lithographs that he would invite people over to look at.
00:30:43
Like, how are we so good at this? I just. Describing someone. I feel like we've lived past lives in the 70s and we're really pissed off about what we were subjected to.
00:30:54
Dude. Okay. And I agree. Enough already with us having to deal with these people.
00:30:59
Enough. Enough. All right. By March 79, Susan leaves, has left her husband, and she tells her friends that Bill, pseudo-intellectual, is going to marry her.
00:31:11
They're engaged. So she's truly in love. She's madly in love with him. Obsessed.
00:31:15
So much so, Karen. that she gives him $25,000 when he tells her that he has a crazy great investment opportunity,
00:31:25
12% gains. It's only going to be six months and I need it in cash. Damn, Susan. Okay. She gives him $25,000 to invest. She has two children.
00:31:35
And back then, what was that? Oh my God. Almost $100,000. Yeah. And her kids, Karen is 11. Hi, Karen.
00:31:43
Hi. You're 11. You're not 11. It's not you. Karen's 11, Michael's 10. So she has like two young children.
00:31:50
She's giving this dude money. And are you ready for this? She makes him the beneficiary of her life insurance policy.
00:31:59
This is not going to go well. Worth? How much do you think a life insurance policy for this woman would be?
00:32:05
$250,000? Over $700,000. Oh, no. Yeah. She cuts her children out of the life insurance policy.
00:32:13
and she changes her will to make him fill the sole hair, hair? Nope. No. Air to her estate.
00:32:22
So, okay. So she's, she's getting a number run on her hard core. It sounds like she's pretty
00:32:28
naive. You know, it's like a small suburb in Pennsylvania. She's an English teacher.
00:32:33
She's not. All the things that I wanted to be real for her are probably not true. She'd like,
00:32:39
she's got her, she, as my dad likes to say, she got her bell rung by this guy. Oh my God. You're right. Like the guy that it's that thing where, and it's a really good trick
00:32:49
that scumbags use where it's that thing of like, they pick out people that they know don't get
00:32:54
certain kinds of attention. And then they slather you with that kind of attention
00:32:58
so that you're kind of like, Oh, he's picking me of all people in the world. I've never felt this way before. Yeah. And I mean, fine, get your bell rung and shit,
00:33:08
but like at the cost of your children, don't adjust the will, no, just the will for your sweet English chair side piece.
00:33:17
And she wrote in it like, um, like who's the beneficiary? What's his relation? Like my intended husband,
00:33:24
like she fucking really thought this guy was going to marry her. Yeah. So she didn't know that bill of course was living with another woman for years.
00:33:33
Also a teacher at the same school. So he's just fucking getting his harem, which they did call it that.
00:33:37
Did she, and she didn't know that at all? I think, I think he was like, we're roommates.
00:33:45
There's no sexual relation. You know, like I think something like that happened.
00:33:47
It's really hard. This took me a long time because of course, like all of these crazy, really interesting
00:33:52
murders, there's some fucking pieces that you just keep finding and there's not a lot
00:33:58
of information on them. Okay. He also had at least two, at least two other girlfriends, one of which was an 18 year old
00:34:04
former student of his. so yeah yes so the $25,000 he had said was for investing had gone into a safe deposit box
00:34:14
put in there by one of his girlfriends and the term was ending soon so she was expecting her
00:34:20
money soon okay what's gonna happen bad things yes the night of June 22nd 1979 so we're 1979
00:34:30
Susan and the kids, Karen and Michael, they're planning on meeting Bill. It's like a night of a crazy hailstorm.
00:34:38
A neighbor saw them leaving their house just after 9 p.m. And the neighbor happens to be the aunt of a murderino.
00:34:47
What? I went into the My Favorite Murder email account, put in the name of this thing,
00:34:54
and out comes like five emails. And one of them, the chick was like, you've got to look this fucking email up.
00:35:00
Her name is Gina A. She says that her mom, so Gina wasn't born yet, but her mom was the next door neighbor
00:35:07
of this family. And she and her sister used to babysit Karen and Michael. And that her, that Gina's great grandmother swore that she heard screaming the night they
00:35:19
left, which is never confirmed. But the aunt and the great grandma were the last people to see them leaving the house.
00:35:25
Oh my God. Yeah. so at that point Susan and her kids vanish but then three days later thank you Gina A for writing
00:35:33
in by the way yeah um three days later June 25th 1979 is like almost exactly a year ago
00:35:40
no yeah well well not a year ago I meant okay I know what you meant Stephen 30 years ago Is that right No Yes 30 years ago Yes No 30 No 20 2017 Eight It be 30 in two years That exactly the kind of math I can do Me too And every other kind of math
00:36:08
And geometry? And everything. Oh man, I even told my psychiatrist about that yesterday, that I just can't do math.
00:36:14
Did you have a math shutdown in high school? I had a math shutdown my whole life.
00:36:18
I had to get sent to a hypnotist because my math got so crazy down. A hypnotist isn't going to help you?
00:36:24
Well, my mother had some ideas about the female orgasm and about hypnosis. Did it help?
00:36:32
She was very, uh, she was a very, uh, spiritual. She was, she was like, um, new agey.
00:36:40
A touch new agey, but then, but from a registered nurse background, you know what I mean?
00:36:45
So she was like, I've seen results. These are the things I've seen results in. Good for her.
00:36:49
I fucking meant to talk to you about this documentary I watched about a cult. over the weekend, but I forgot.
00:36:55
Okay. Next time. Okay. Anywho, hypnotists. Okay, the kids disappear. Three days later, a year ago, June 25th, 1979,
00:37:06
a man calls the police about a, quote, sick woman in the trunk of a car in the parking lot
00:37:15
of the Host Inn in Swarda Township, Pennsylvania. It's about 90 miles from Susan's home.
00:37:22
And in the trunk of her own car, which was an orange, I wrote this down for you, an orange Plymouth Horizon hatchback.
00:37:30
Did you ride in, which is like such an 80s, 70s car. Did you ride in one of those?
00:37:35
A Plymouth Horizon hatchback. I feel like I can see what that is. Yeah. Yeah. So she's in the back in the hatchback and her body is found there.
00:37:45
Oof. She was nude. Susan was nude. She had been severely beaten. she had two black eyes.
00:37:52
She was bound with a chain so tightly that the chains left bruises on her back. And she was killed with an injection of morphine.
00:38:01
And it had been 24 to 36 hours after the beating in which she had been killed. And there was no sign of her children.
00:38:09
Oh. Yeah. So obviously Bill, the fucking teacher, or English guy, was the main suspect
00:38:18
once the investigators found out about the affair, which he had been denying to everyone and saying wasn't true.
00:38:23
And they found out about the money, but he had an alibi for that weekend that she went missing.
00:38:28
He was at the beach in Cape May, New Jersey, with a bunch of other teachers, and they all vouched for his whereabouts.
00:38:36
Yeah, but even if he wasn't nearby in that exact same time, why would she leave you as the beneficiary on her will
00:38:44
if you weren't having an affair? Or if there's no connection to you? But they were at that point, we're like, yeah,
00:38:49
He was like, I don't think he ever denied it to the police that they were running.
00:38:54
Oh, sorry. Just around town. Yeah. Just like to the other teachers and stuff. Got it, got it.
00:38:58
But he was out of town. And after a couple of years, there was still not enough evidence to charge him with Susan's death and the missing children.
00:39:08
Okay. But there was enough evidence for prosecutors to charge Bill with theft by deception because of the $25,000 she had given him in what turned out to be a bogus investment.
00:39:19
Oh. So they were like, we know he fucking had something to do with her disappear murder.
00:39:23
We can't charge him for that. Let's just bring him in for this for now. So 72 hours before his trial was supposed to begin, from his jail cell, Bill files a claim to collect Susan's life insurance money that was left to him.
00:39:40
Sorry, what's this? There are so many twists and turns in this fucking thing. He sends a stamped envelope out in a bird's mouth out the jail cell window.
00:39:52
I did read conflicting things that he was actually not in jail yet, but he was or he wasn't.
00:39:57
But like, what kind of fucking idiot right before this would be like, but you know what you should add on to those charges?
00:40:02
Yeah. If I just get that money real quick. I'll be able to plea. and so the jury finds him guilty obviously
00:40:11
and in 1981 he's sentenced to up to two years in jail for the $25,000 and then during this time police are
00:40:20
also investigating someone else so here's okay let's switch fucking let's go to another fucking weird thing happening
00:40:25
principal of the high school where Susan and Bill were teaching the principal is Dr. J.
00:40:32
Smith I'm going to call him Principal Smith from now on so we know who he is He's a 50 year old dude and he was known as the quote, quote, creepy school principal.
00:40:41
So this dude's a fucking creep. Principal Smith, absolute creep. Teachers jokingly called him the Prince of Darkness.
00:40:49
Oh, wow. That's a joke. Yeah, that is funny. What a funny joke. That's funny. What's your nickname?
00:40:55
Oh, me? Oh, it's a devil joke. The Prince of Darkness? Because I'm so lighthearted.
00:41:01
Because I love to be around children and I'm of the devil. I have goat eyes. And a cape.
00:41:06
It's the thing of like when you go to a doctor's office and you fill out your thing and it's
00:41:10
like, what name do you like to be? What? Like, do you have a nickname that you want to be called?
00:41:15
Yeah. Prince of darkness. Marty. Marty. Or Prince of darkness. I didn't even think.
00:41:21
Not your dad. Not your dad. I go by Marty. Okay. But, um, okay. So this is my favorite fucking thing in the entire world.
00:41:31
Ready for the best quote you've ever heard? Yes. So crime writer Joseph Wamba wrote a book about the whole case called Echoes in the Darkness, which is like.
00:41:41
Same guy that wrote the John Orr book. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. This guy, he was a cop and he was like, goodbye, I'm going to go make a ton of money instead.
00:41:47
Yeah. So he in the book says that quote some thought that J Smith the principal looked like an obscene phone call have you ever heard a better description of someone That fucking genius
00:42:05
I know. And amazing. He looked like an obscene phone call. So he's like, what? He's like, I picture like shoulders up around the ears, kind of like wringing his hands,
00:42:15
like greasy hair. Yeah. Big thick glasses. Oh, man. He looked like an obscene phone call.
00:42:24
That's amazing. I want to go ahead and... That was... That's beautiful. Congratulations, Joseph Wambaugh.
00:42:31
Or John? Joseph. Joseph. Yeah. Okay, so he's known to be eccentric and a weird man, often sitting in his office during
00:42:39
school hours, wearing only his underwear, which you could get away with in the fucking
00:42:43
70s. It's not allowed. You can't do that. Mary Lou, can you take these papers? Principal Smith, you're not allowed to be here anymore.
00:42:52
I'm just hot. I'm hot. It's winter. It's hot in here. It's the dead of winter, Principal Smith.
00:42:59
And it's midnight. Well, I'm the Prince of Darkness, so I'm just constantly sweating.
00:43:03
And it's midnight. Why did you call me in? Why did you call me in from home? Yeah, because I'm the Prince of Darkness.
00:43:11
Okay, there's rumors around town that Principal Smith had devil-worship sex parties
00:43:16
and had burned bodies in the school incinerator and buried chopped up body parts.
00:43:21
So I guess they were building a school pool at this time. And so people are like, he's fucking burying bodies under where they're building the pool.
00:43:29
So they'll be hidden forever. I just have to say that both of those rumors that you just named sound like they came out straight out of the third grade classroom.
00:43:36
Yeah. It's just like, but what if they're cutting up bodies? He has occult sex parties.
00:43:42
And everyone's like, that's not a thing. I mean, people fucking swap and bone, but like, yeah, there's no occult.
00:43:48
Like nobody wants to have an occult sex party. No, but he is sitting. What's worse and harder to face is he literally is sitting in his underwear during school hours.
00:43:58
That part's true. So who cares if the others isn't? You don't need to make up satanic parties when the principal's sitting in his underwear in his office.
00:44:07
Like enough. Come on. Like, don't your parents are going to be like, but that's OK about any of it.
00:44:13
Um, my mom. OK, so. But Principal Smith's own kid, Stephanie Hunsberger, and her husband, Edward, disappeared in early 1978, like a year before Susan went missing.
00:44:26
They were reportedly heroin addicts. They fucking disappeared out of nowhere. And they were assumed they had left on their own because they were drug addicts.
00:44:36
But till this day, they've never been seen again. So people assumed. They're in the pool, too?
00:44:41
Yeah. Whoa. So a year before Susan's body is found, Principal Smith is caught trying to break into cars in a mall parking lot.
00:44:50
The principal is trying to break into cars in a mall parking lot. And on him are four loaded guns, as well as silencer made from an oil filter, a tranquilizing drug, and, quote, a hood with two slits for the eyes.
00:45:09
No. Yep. What are those called? Cabot. balaclava that's not a balaclava though thank you i can never get that thank you for your input i
00:45:17
can never get that fucking word it's you know why it's weird but i always think of balenciaga
00:45:22
the designer but a hood with two eye slits is more zodiac-y yeah because a balaclava like sticks to
00:45:30
your face as like a ski mask and you have an opening for the mouth yeah right yes you're right
00:45:34
and also it's just more devil devil worshipy yeah but how do you breathe through that i guess just
00:45:40
Slowly and you stay calm with your tranquilizer in your pocket and your four fucking guns.
00:45:45
If you're a sociopath, you're not panicking. Right. That's right. All right. So when his house is searched, police find swinger publications, bestiality porn, and chains and locks.
00:46:01
Oh, that's just a safety thing. He has a ton of bikes. He loves bicycling. You know what?
00:46:07
You're probably right. Let's go back and exonerate. bicycling they didn't say how many bikes they found so let's hear the whole story like don't
00:46:16
just principal smith's wife he has a wife she's like i mean here i'm gonna do her voice um
00:46:24
well he had a double costume and he had a collection of dildos like that's what mrs principal smith said maureen smith maureen smith maureen you need to face the
00:46:34
facts. Maureen, this isn't normal. Have you ever had a female orgasm? Well, this episode is going
00:46:40
to be called female orgasm. I've heard of them. I have heard tell. Those are, those are, um,
00:46:45
what's it called? Those are made up. Those are fictional. Those are none of my business.
00:46:50
Principal Smith. She calls him principal Smith. Tell me that that's just, it's a feminist movement
00:46:57
where they're trying to get you to have sex. Principal Smith told me, wait, Maureen, do you
00:47:02
call your husband Principal Smith? It's what he asked on our wedding night. He was in the devil's costume. If the devil tells me to do something.
00:47:10
She's suddenly from the South. That accent has to get weirder as you talk like Maureen Smith. Out of her mind.
00:47:17
They also find a fake Brinks security badge which they tied to a $50,000 armed robbery at Sears a year earlier.
00:47:30
So he was using his fake fucking costume and his fucking security badge and guns and fucking holding up Sears for 50 grand.
00:47:39
Like, why does Sears have that much money there? The popcorn's amazing. Okay. But also maybe he's like, maybe that's why he needed to cool off in his office with no pants on.
00:47:49
He was like committing major heists. Like the one time it happened. And then rushing back to school.
00:47:53
Yeah. One time. Yes. I'm so hot. Mary Lou, can you just fix this on your own? Sorry, I just ran from the bank.
00:48:03
All right. So he's arrested. And among his defense witnesses at his trial in 1979, three months before Susan's body is found, is our friend Bill.
00:48:13
Oh. Mr. Elbow Patches. Yeah. He gives Principal Smith an alibi. And even back then, Susan, who's still alive at the time, three months left to live to live, she doubted Bill's alibi, too.
00:48:24
She thought he was making it up. But Principal Smith either way is found guilty and given five years.
00:48:30
But, okay, he's free on bail while he's waiting sentencing. His date in court, which he was late to, was June 25th, 1979,
00:48:41
which, may I fucking remind you, is the date that Susan's body was found. And he was late that morning to court.
00:48:48
Because he was calling and saying a sick lady is in a car. Well, I don't know. But listen.
00:48:54
Go ahead. Susan was found early that morning at like 5 a.m. in the trunk of the car.
00:48:58
Oh, oh. But her kids disappeared. Right. And the court date he was late to was about 15 minutes from the hotel where her park where the parking lot where her body was found.
00:49:09
And the police at that moment during his arraignment are removing Susan's body from the car.
00:49:15
OK, so Patches is in Patches is on like in Connecticut or something. Right. He said he was he had an alibi being like far away.
00:49:23
Yeah. So he got this guy to do it. All right. Let's keep going. OK. Okay. We'll have, we'll, yes.
00:49:31
This will be discussed. This will be discussed. Oh, we're going to talk about this.
00:49:34
This is going to happen. I don't know why I have to keep on guessing. I'm so sorry.
00:49:39
No, I love it. This is, it's the best. It's fun. It makes me like happy. So guess what else is in the back of the hatchback? I'll tell you.
00:49:47
Under Susan's body, there's A, a sex toy, and B, also, a plastic comb with the name of Principal Smith's Army Reserve Unit.
00:49:58
Oh, no. Which I'm guessing, you know how fucking gross old men like that, like grandpas, put their fucking gross greasy combs in the front of their fucking shirt pocket, like buttoned down with short-sleeved shirt pockets that they took off when they were in their offices?
00:50:13
Yeah. Like, you know, he bent down into the trunk and it probably fell out of that top shirt
00:50:16
pocket and then he put her, you know what I mean? Totally. Yes. The little, but it was a comb that he had his own name, Principal Smith put on.
00:50:24
No, it, I think it was the army reserve unit that he was in. Oh, just that. Yeah.
00:50:31
It didn't say Principal Smith's army reserve unit. Okay. Sorry. Oh, it was his. I took you totally literally on that.
00:50:37
They probably got it at like a fucking Legionnaires hall party or what the fuck.
00:50:41
You know, they passed them out. Got it. It was just the one he belonged to. Yeah.
00:50:44
Like his name was all can they give him everyone who. What if his first name was principal?
00:50:48
That would be great. Mr. Mr. Principal. It's principal. Paul Smith, Mr. Principal.
00:50:57
Paul. Then later, a cute little green pin that was a souvenir from a class trip to the
00:51:03
Philadelphia Museum of Art that Karen, 11 year old Karen wore the day she disappeared was found under the front
00:51:10
passenger seat of Principal Smith's car. Oh no. Yeah. So almost four years after Susan Reinhart's
00:51:18
death, Bill Bradford patches is arrested and charged with the three murders, even though the
00:51:25
kids have never been found charged with three murders. And on April 6th, 1983, thanks to the
00:51:31
help of another English teacher who was a good friend of Bill, who was like a really fucking
00:51:36
sweet, wonderful guy and got conned by Bill as well. He felt betrayed and freaked out and told
00:51:41
the FBI. And he was a key witness in the trial. What did he tell them? It's Mr. Velatis. He told
00:51:48
them that for months before Susan's death, Bill was freaking out because he thought he was telling
00:51:54
everyone he thought Principal Smith was going to kill her, but it was really odd and weird. And he
00:51:59
like got a gun to defend her, but never told her about his feelings. Super weird and convoluted
00:52:07
and makes you go, hmm. Is he setting up an alibi or is he like, he's, he's pre-throwing
00:52:13
people off. Right. But why even bring it up in the first place? Right. Cause he thinks
00:52:18
he's smarter than everyone. Yes. So he's getting all these other people involved in it. And
00:52:22
sympathetic. And he's a sociopath. So he knows he can like charm and manipulate people to
00:52:27
kind of believe whatever. Right. And then so when she dies, he can, they're all going to like, well,
00:52:31
yeah, Bill knew about this. Bill knew Principal Smith was going to kill her. This is what he feared
00:52:35
all along. So this is what happened and Bill was right. Instead of being like, Bill is fucking
00:52:39
creeping us all out. He has a gun. All right. So Mr. Veladis was cool. In 1986, while in prison
00:52:51
for his other conviction of the armed robbery, Principal Smith is convicted of conspiring with Bill
00:52:58
to kill the Reinhardt family. So he's convicted as well. Whoa. Both men tried to pin
00:53:03
the murders on the other, claiming they were set up by the other one. He's, Principal Smith
00:53:09
is convicted of three counts of murdering given the death penalty. Wow. Cut to six years later.
00:53:15
This isn't ending yet. Okay. It's more fucking twisted. I never wanted to end. I know, right?
00:53:19
in 1992, good old 92, an antique dealer. Like this is so what the fuck. I can't even believe
00:53:27
this. An antique dealer who, you know, it's just like, he's like American pickers dudes,
00:53:31
you know, like quote antique dealer sounds really nice. I'll give you 800 for that propeller.
00:53:36
Yeah. It's worth 10,000. Well, who's going to buy it for that? You're a dumb farmer. You don't
00:53:42
know that. I hate the guy I'm working with. Have you watched that show? It's the fucking,
00:53:44
they hate each other. Do they fight? No, but you can like feel it. They hate each other.
00:53:49
Okay A quote antique dealer is hired to clean out the addict belonging to the state detective like the main state detective that was involved in this case in the Reinhardt murders The attic The attic Did I say addict God why do I always do that
00:54:06
Why do I always do that? Sorry. No, I'm glad you corrected me. I just want to make sure that's what...
00:54:13
It's a running... It's a running... He didn't hire him to clean out his attic. Some heroin addict.
00:54:17
We already have attics in this story. That's right. But they're just... They've disappeared.
00:54:21
Right. Insanely enough. And they're not in the attic. But this is the fact that you're even introducing an antique dealer that is about to clean out an attic is my favorite.
00:54:31
Please go. Dude. Yes. In the attic, there's a box containing a duplicate of the comb found under Susan, investigative notes contradicting prosecution testimony,
00:54:45
and adhesive, quote, lifters, which I think is like tape that they, containing grains of
00:54:51
sand and quartz from the bottom of Susan's feet that they never turned over to the defense.
00:54:59
Why? So I don't understand the duplicate comb, but maybe that just, I don't understand that part.
00:55:03
They went and got another one, maybe. To prove that it wasn't. To find it, I don't know.
00:55:09
Yeah. But whatever reason, they had it. And then contradictory, no, it's fine. But the lifters. OK, Bill said he was at the beach that fucking weekend. Yes. And they found sand in courts that could have tested the fucking sand at that Jersey Shore beach. Why does she have that on her feet? Yeah. My feeling is, did she leave that night to confront him? He was there with his living girlfriend. He fucking freaks out and kills them.
00:55:36
yeah i mean she he doesn't expect it like basically his little separate lives overlap
00:55:42
and she's like you gotta tell them now or i'm gonna fucking leave you or i'm gonna tell them
00:55:47
myself or just i'm going to change that will and all the other people yeah because i and i made a
00:55:52
mistake yeah and you're a scum yeah and he freaks out but the other people at the beach i have no
00:56:00
doubt they would have if they had known they would have said something because it was that guy who
00:56:03
testified against him. His living girlfriend didn't seem like the kind of, she ended up
00:56:08
testifying against him as well. Like they weren't scumbags who ran on it. All right. So
00:56:14
Principal Smith's defense attorney says that this could have been, this could have placed the murder
00:56:19
in New Jersey's shore, right? Which would have helped Principal Smith get off. So after serving
00:56:24
six years on death row, Principal Smith is released in 92. Even though we don't know,
00:56:30
he didn't have anything to do with it. She was chained up and he was into chains. His fucking
00:56:35
comb was in the car. Or what if Bill put it in there on purpose? Right. He could have placed it
00:56:40
in there. Yeah. Maybe they had more of them. Right. Maybe there's a can of those combs.
00:56:45
Because he was saying that Principal Smith's going to kill her. Hey, look what happens. And
00:56:50
maybe the fucking pin was put in Principal Smith's car. Yes. Fuck dude. I'm contradicting my whole.
00:56:57
Well, no, but I mean, if he was telling people that many months beforehand, he was probably collecting things to set him up.
00:57:04
He could have been collecting things to set him up before, and that's very realistic.
00:57:09
Right. So he's released in 92 because the evidence prosecutors may have exonerated him.
00:57:16
And through the appeals court, the appeals court agreed that there was unethical conduct.
00:57:21
but they also said that, quote, nothing untrustworthy about Smith's, there was nothing
00:57:27
untrustworthy about Smith's conviction for murder. So they was like, they were like,
00:57:30
we fucking think he did it, but he got an unfair trial. And so we have to let him go.
00:57:35
Yeah. So they, so for some, whatever reasons, whatever evidence they thought he was,
00:57:39
they were working together. All right. Along with the box found the 911 tape of the call
00:57:46
about Susan's body was mistakenly destroyed. Her body was, here's the fucking second time this
00:57:52
has happened in a very short time, accidentally cremated. Wait, yeah. And the autopsy audio tape
00:58:01
was lost until after the trial. Well, that's three things. That's too many things. One thing,
00:58:07
maybe, where you're like, oh, that's bad. How do you accidentally cremate a woman?
00:58:11
Well, you don't accidentally do it. You don't, do you? I don't think so. No. I mean, I don't think so.
00:58:16
Like there's basic paperwork. You don't just toss a fucking body in the crematorium.
00:58:23
No, but you toss a 20 grand toward a person that's running that crematorium and then say, look the other way.
00:58:32
Well, I do what I need to get done. 20 grand is a lot of money. Or something. Yeah.
00:58:36
But also just the combination of, because also then the autopsy where the coroner's talking and going,
00:58:43
now there's mild abrasions on this and that. So there's no way to read. It's like they can't dig her up and give her
00:58:48
that autopsy again. They can't check anything like bite marks or anything that would actually indicate.
00:58:56
Or like DNA. The Reinhart case becomes the biggest investigation in the history of Pennsylvania State Police.
00:59:03
In 1987, a miniseries based on the Echoes in the Darkness book comes out, which I could only find 10 minutes of online.
00:59:13
Karen, you would fucking lose your mind if you saw this. Who was in it? All right.
00:59:16
I wrote every single person. No, you would ask that. Oh my God. It's episode 75.
00:59:23
We finally got in sync. Yes. It only took us 74. All right. Susan is played by Stalker Channing.
00:59:31
Oh, yes. I knew you'd love that. Bill, old Patches Bill is played by Peter Coyote.
00:59:38
Yes, Peter Coyote. I don't know him. He's, yes, you do. He's the narrator for the Oscars.
00:59:43
Oh. Coming up next. He's like, and he's like a very, he's, I think he's from theater mostly,
00:59:50
but you've seen things. He's super low key. He looks like Ray Romano He like Ray Romano arty brother Because I watched the 10 minutes which were so good And there are so many other convoluted points to this whole story that I couldn even get to that weren really part of it
01:00:07
But I think they're in the miniseries. I'm so bummed I can't find it. You know, someone listening has it on cassette.
01:00:12
Their mom recorded it when it came out. With the commercials, we need you to fucking upload it.
01:00:17
Could you imagine with the commercials? Sorry, what year? This came out in 87. The commercials would make me barf.
01:00:23
I would be so happy. It would be, well, it would be new Coke. Yeah. It would be LA looks hair gel.
01:00:32
Yes. It would be whatever market that the mom recorded it in. The fucking panic news coming up next after this miniseries.
01:00:40
Yes. Your children's backs are fucked. That's right. Give up your children. Yes.
01:00:44
Okay. Okay. Oh, and then Principal Smith is played by Robert Loggia. Robert Loggia.
01:00:52
Loggia. Yes. Who's he? You know him. I won't be able to think of anything offhand.
01:00:57
He is the guy. He's short. He has had white hair for most of his career. And he's got a dog like this.
01:01:04
He's got a big, kind of a big nose. He has an Italian feel to him. Because he's not in the 10 minutes.
01:01:09
He's not in that one at all. He's the cop? No, he's the fucking principal. He's Principal Smith.
01:01:14
Yeah. That's so good. Oh, my God. We have to get our hands on this. You know where we can go?
01:01:20
Where? We can go to the fucking Museum of Television. Ooh, where's that? It's in Beverly Hills.
01:01:26
You go there, you fill out a card, you say, this is what I want to watch. They take it in.
01:01:32
They have a library of almost everything that's ever been on TV. Dude, how did I not know this?
01:01:35
Yeah, yeah. It's right in Beverly Hills. What about one of the last cool movie rental places?
01:01:42
It's next to the New Art on Santa Monica Boulevard. Cinemania or something? Josh Fadum worked there for a long time because he loved it.
01:01:50
Yes. Do you know what I'm talking about? Yeah, cinephile. Cinephile, no. No, cinephile is the cinefamily.
01:01:55
Cinefamily? I don't remember. Yeah, we'll go there. Field trip. Yeah, class field trip.
01:02:01
They won't have it, though. David, you're driving. Because that's too TV-ish. Oh, okay.
01:02:04
I think. It's too, like, obscure. You're right. Ooh, you're going to find this. Dude.
01:02:08
Yeah. All right. Bill dies in prison in 1998. Principal Smith? No, Bill fucking Patches.
01:02:14
Patches, sorry. Bill Patches dies in 98. Okay. Principal Smith dies a free man. Both maintain their innocence their entire lives.
01:02:26
They didn't even give us the fucking deathbed confession. All right. But you're ready for the...
01:02:31
I saved the creepiest for the last part. Because it's the creepiest thing I've ever heard in my fucking life.
01:02:37
Okay. And there's a photograph of it online. Uh-oh. All right. So Bill Patches, the fucking creepy lover,
01:02:45
dies, his cell's being cleaned out, and a photograph is found hidden in his belongings.
01:02:52
The photograph depicts a stone marker, looks like a small gothic kind of angel stone kind of marker,
01:03:00
resembles a hooded figure, worn away kind of. The stone is surrounded by fallen leaves with woods in the background,
01:03:06
so it's the middle of some random woods. and that photo alone, it was, uh, it was, they found the cops were like, it was, um,
01:03:16
processed before in like 86, before he went to prison. And some people think it's a photograph
01:03:21
of the location of little Carol and Michael's graves, but investigators sent it out and they've
01:03:28
been unable to locate the marker as of yet. So it's like hidden in a forest somewhere.
01:03:34
and he had a fucking photograph of it the entire time he was in prison. So he fucking did it.
01:03:40
He did it and he knows where the fucking bodies are. And that's his, what's the thing?
01:03:45
We forgot this once before and people were yelling at us. That's his souvenir. His, you know, his serial killer.
01:03:51
Trinket? Souvenir. Yeah, I think it's a souvenir. Whatever. Or the thing that they keep.
01:03:55
Then I was thinking like how creepy would it have been if like they'd killed them together
01:03:59
and Principal Smith had buried the body and he gave it to Bill in like a warning.
01:04:04
Like if you fucking tell anyone what happened, like everyone will know about the dead kids.
01:04:10
Here's the photograph of where they, they are buried because of you. Or maybe Bill didn't want them to die.
01:04:16
Maybe, but don't you think like the way those kinds of killers do it, they keep, the keepsakes are about, yeah, memento.
01:04:25
It's about, they love that thing. It's a positive thing. Yeah. If it was a threat, it wouldn't be as good.
01:04:33
Right. Like he had to sneak it into prison. It was probably in one of his books, in his bookshelf or something like that.
01:04:39
Do you think that two people did it? I think that only one of these creepy men did it.
01:04:44
I think it sounds like they knew they were in on something together. They say it was some weird sex ring that they were involved in.
01:04:55
A lot of money to be split up between them. Who had the money? Well, Bill was going to get over $700,000 in life insurance money.
01:05:04
Okay, right. So, all right. So say they were in a sex ring. Something where they both had information on each other.
01:05:11
Then it's like Patches is like, I'll give you 50 grand if I have to set this thing.
01:05:16
And this is like, it's almost like a stranger's on a train. If you take care of these bodies, I can be out of town.
01:05:23
There will be no connection. One of those kind of, but it's a bad plan because it's like, yeah, but I'll work at the same school.
01:05:28
I think that Bill, I mean, sorry, I think that Principal Smith almost seems too obvious because he's a fucking, his children disappear to his heroin addict daughter and he's robbing banks and shit. It's almost like, why would you also do these other things? Or is it because you think you can get away with that shit, which you almost did?
01:05:49
Right I mean the robbing the bank thing is insanity because usually if you a bank robber you not going to then have a double life as a high school principal It like that so fascinating And the fact that he owns all kinds of weird sex stuff Yeah
01:06:06
I mean, that is fucking insane. Yeah, so that's the mainline murders, a.k.a. the Reinhardt murders.
01:06:13
And it was, sorry, that was Pennsylvania? Yeah. Wow. I know. Is that, how have we never heard of that?
01:06:23
I've never heard. I feel like when you said the thing about the little girl's museum pin being under the thing, that kind of made me go dang.
01:06:34
But I would have remembered all that other crazy stuff. I've never heard of so many weird fucking things in one.
01:06:40
One simple murder about insurance money. Right. Never heard so many crazy things going on.
01:06:45
Well, also, if so, she leaves her house with her kids and gets into the car. Sounds like it was in a hurry in the hailstorm, but I only saw that in like one thing.
01:06:56
Okay. Because also. But it was late at night. And also, if there's a hailstorm, that means he went to the beach during the winter?
01:07:04
He went to New Jersey, which I think the beach, I like looked it up on a map, was like four hours away.
01:07:10
But I mean. Yeah. I know. Why did he pick that? Yeah. If it's wintertime, why don't you go skiing?
01:07:16
Totally. What are you doing? Yeah. Did he plan the trip? I want to know, like, did they go there often?
01:07:22
Did they ever do that before? Yeah. Like, clearly, there's this thing of, like, your spouse or your loved one gets killed
01:07:30
and you happen to be out of town on a vacation. It's like you can't have a convenient alibi and expect that to be your only.
01:07:38
Yeah. The only thing they look into. Yeah. Well, and also because you're the alibi is about killing your secret lover while you're
01:07:47
on vacation with your other secret lover. And then there's other secret lovers, like all that.
01:07:53
There's so much going on without talking about Principal Smith and his underwear.
01:07:58
If we don't even get into that, there's so much going on. We'll have a whole episode. The story we do together is Principal Smith is an underwear
01:08:06
in his underwear. But, but I'm telling you that final moment of the picture, find them finding the picture. So they never see it online.
01:08:15
Okay. Just put in mainline murders and you'll see it. How can somebody on Reddit haven't found out exactly where that is yet?
01:08:24
No shit. I mean, you would just think that people in Pennsylvania would just be combing the fucking forest.
01:08:29
Or on the way from Pennsylvania to New Jersey. Or back. The beach place? Yeah. Like somewhere along that route.
01:08:38
Oh, fuck. So if someone go find it and like then we'll fucking, you guys, If murderinos solve this, I don't even mean us, but if like some murderinos solve this and find the bodies.
01:08:51
It'll be. Go out there. Go forth and dig. And. I mean, this was in 1986, though, so it's probably not there anymore.
01:08:59
But if it's a stone marker. And also so creepy. A cloaked figure. Oh, yeah. Also, if you find the stone marker, if you find any stalker chanting made for TV movie about murder, whether it's this one or another, I'm interested in watching it.
01:09:16
Email myfavoritemurder at gmail.com. Put in the title, stalker chanting. And the subject line, stalker chanting.
01:09:24
Or found the dead children. Yes. It's just so sad that she made these decisions out of her naivety,
01:09:35
and yet she's a victim, obviously, but these kids had no choice in any of it. If she was getting the full sociopath-psychopath hypnosis deal,
01:09:47
where it's like ricky-ticky-tavvy when that snake goes up and you can't stop staring at the eyes,
01:09:53
It's that thing where she walked away from a whole life to, to be with this man who was
01:10:01
a complete criminal and creepo and was turning it over entirely. I mean, there's, that's what I would like to know about and see up close.
01:10:11
Cause, cause there's a story there and she probably was a smart woman. Yeah. I don't know.
01:10:16
I mean, that's like one little detail I didn't say that really made me sad was that when
01:10:21
he um when he went to court for the 25 000 like from stealing it from her um susan's ex-husband
01:10:30
like went to fight against him so even after they divorced he was like fuck this guy yes you know
01:10:36
she cheated on me but this guy is a fucking creep and a piece of shit yeah like not even trying to
01:10:42
get the money himself he's just like she's a con man that like hurt the woman i love she was he was
01:10:48
still fighting for her and it just made me so sad that it's the whole thing is incredibly sad also
01:10:53
just remember in the 70s like women it's not the parenting situation was so different in that way
01:11:01
where it was like having people had affairs or you know made these kind of it was the me generation
01:11:06
too where it was like I'm gonna you know I started out as a housewife in the 60s and that was all
01:11:10
fine I gotta have a chance to yeah why can't I have a life and that and I'm sure he played out
01:11:15
on that and it was I'm sure she was trying to balance all of that I don't I hope I don't sound
01:11:19
like I'm victim blaming it's just no no I just don't want to forget this too sweet and if you
01:11:23
see if you if you google it you'll see their photos and they're just like these sweet baby
01:11:28
angels who just like fuck who knows where they went they fucking disappeared and they never even
01:11:34
got a you know funeral from the grandparents and their dad it's just it's so sad it's horrible yeah
01:11:42
so yeah mainline murders wow yeah wow well done thank you that was crazy thank you
01:11:50
i know right okay we're back georgia are there any updates for this case yes there
01:12:00
Our updates and actually from our conversation we were just having about people writing in their side of the story.
01:12:05
When I was researching this, I looked through our emails and there are so many murderinos who were connected to this story and that they lived there at the time or their parents went to high school with this and that.
01:12:16
And so it was really interesting. We got an email from a murderino named Elise A. Miller, who was there at the time and wrote a book called Tracing the Bones.
01:12:25
It's a novel and she based it off of this case. So I think that was really interesting.
01:12:30
And as for the case, the murder of Susan Reinhart and the disappearance of her children, Karen and Michael, remain unsolved, sadly.
01:12:37
State police at Harrisburg continue to offer a $5,000 reward for information to find the bodies of Karen and Michael.
01:12:45
And Netflix is in early development with Andrew Sodorowsky, who wrote Manhunt about the Unabomber, and Aggregate Films, which is Jason Bateman's production company for a limited series inspired by the mainline murders.
01:12:57
and when I was re-reading about this, it's such a fucking wild case. I mean, and heartbreaking.
01:13:04
And then I also mentioned being unable to find the stalker-channing-made-for-TV movie
01:13:09
called Echoes in the Darkness about this case. And it's now available on Tubi. So check that out.
01:13:16
Wow. Okay, so now let's get into Karen's story about Spider Savage. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer,
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01:16:54
Now that I'm working again, I'm doing those ones where I'm like, what do I know really well because I've seen it on every true crime show.
01:17:01
Everyone loves those. It's so fun to like recognize one and be like, yes, tell me about it.
01:17:06
So this is one everyone knows, which is the murder of Spider Savage. I'm sorry, what?
01:17:11
The murder of Spider Savage. He's a famous downhill skier. Dude, I don't know this.
01:17:18
Are you serious? Wait. So this. This is taken. I don't ski. There's a power, privilege, and justice hosted by Dominic Dunn.
01:17:28
one of the greatest true crime series ever because Dominic Dunn, the author, sits there staring into camera doing interstitial narration,
01:17:39
and he looks like the most livid individual of all time. It's almost like he's blaming you.
01:17:44
He's telling you what you did wrong. Yes. He's angry at the justicism. He's angry at injustice in general, and he's just disgusted.
01:17:54
But at the same time he loves Beverly Hills Yeah like he a bit of a status guy Yeah He a bit of a because he was a famous author right so he has a little bit of like i was at that party and i saw like
01:18:06
yeah he's a firsthand thing and a lot of these stories but it's not um frivolous he's very
01:18:14
serious and he's the one whose daughter was murdered by her ex-boyfriend right um which
01:18:19
did we do that? Yeah. Dominique Dunn? Yes. We did her murderer. Yes. So basically he has
01:18:25
he was like he was played by I think. Oh it was so good. Nathan Lane played him in the OJ
01:18:33
Ryan Murphy OJ show. Yes. So brilliantly because he was there for the whole OJ thing.
01:18:40
Yeah he's and I think he's mostly a Vanity Fair writer. Yeah. I'm not sure. He's a very famous like true
01:18:47
crime writer and writer. That ass motherfucker. So if you, I think there's, I mean, I was able to watch power privilege and justice on YouTube,
01:18:56
although everyone had the same incredibly deep voice. So I think that's the way they got away
01:19:01
with like the last one I tried to watch where the screen was diagonal and it was, you know,
01:19:07
it was slightly altered so that you could watch it. Um, this one, it was like, they basically
01:19:11
slightly altered everyone's voice. So it sounded like everyone was in the witness protection program,
01:19:17
but they weren't being, they weren't in the dark. Yeah. So anyway, got it. If you can,
01:19:22
I don't remember this one, so let's fucking have that. And I'm excited that. Okay. All right. So
01:19:29
roughly around the same time, a year ago, Sunday, March 21st, 1976, Vladimir Peter
01:19:37
spider Savage, a 31 year old, um, champion Alpine ski racer returned home from a training session
01:19:45
to Starwood, a gated community in the ritzy resort town of Aspen, Colorado. Oh, I also got some of this information from a website called, called shit.
01:19:58
Shit. That's a great website name. I didn't write it down. It was shitshit.com. Don't go to that.
01:20:04
Please don't fucking go to that. We can't be responsible. No, it was called Snowblitzed or Snowbrained or so.
01:20:10
I'll figure it out and tell you guys, but it's basically like a skier's website.
01:20:15
Okay. Okay. Okay. So he comes back to his home in a gated community called Starwood in Aspen.
01:20:24
So it's like Aspen, Colorado, as most people know, is an incredibly rich, white, ski resort,
01:20:32
kind of like one percenter town. And this guy was kind of the star of that town.
01:20:38
So he, within this rich, ritzy place, lived in a gated community. Jesus. Oh, because he's like, I'm scared of all you not rich people.
01:20:46
I need a gate. I'm scared of you people that only make $600,000 a year. So, yeah, that's like the people who live, they work in Beverly Hills, but they live in Bel Air.
01:20:56
Right. Oh, it must be nice. Okay. So he was stopping home at his home in Starwood to change because he had been skiing and he'd gone to a party.
01:21:08
he was going to go home and take a shower because later on he planned to meet his skiing coach for dinner
01:21:15
the chief police who is in this episode of Power, Privilege, and Justice is talking about how he was in his
01:21:24
police cruiser, he hears a call come out over the radio that there's been a shooting at
01:21:29
Starwood, so he knows he immediately races over yeah, because he's like, these people pay more money to the
01:21:35
police department, no Georgia up there quick god damn it well but it is kind of that way this is there's the kind of tower if
01:21:43
something happens you know nothing happens bad there probably exactly so if anything someone
01:21:48
shoots a gun straight up into the air they're like we gotta we gotta process this immediately
01:21:52
and it is a little bit of like shadows of john bonnet yeah in that way where the police don't
01:21:59
have it's like of course they obviously do technically have this jurisdiction but rich
01:22:05
people kind of do what they want. They lawyer up, they fly places on their private jets and
01:22:10
like the police are just have to kind of do their best. They're public servants to these
01:22:15
people who make $800,000 a year. Their paycheck is paid with the taxes that those people pay.
01:22:21
Yeah. Okay. So when they arrive there, they go to, they find that they're arriving at the home
01:22:29
of Spider Savage, who lives there with his live-in girlfriend of four years, singer-actress
01:22:35
Claudine Lange. I have never heard of these people. Are you serious? Never heard of this one.
01:22:41
I've definitely seen this forensic file several times, and I've seen this power of privilege
01:22:45
and justice at least once. I fucking miss this one. It's a bit of a classic. I'm excited.
01:22:50
So they find Claudine slumped in the hallway crying. Oh no. And then they walk back to the bathroom off the master bedroom and they find Spider who's been shot in the abdomen and bleeding out on the bathroom floor.
01:23:04
Shot once. Already lost a ton of blood. And finally the ambulance arrives. Claudine begs the police to let her ride along in the ambulance with him.
01:23:15
And they let her. Which I think these days, you know, this is the late 70s. these days it'd be like, no, no, no. You're the only person on the scene.
01:23:24
Unless it's a kid probably. Right. But even then, if you're the only person on the scene, it's like,
01:23:29
you got to answer some questions. You don't just get to do whatever you want. Yes. Um, so they find the gun, which is an antique Luger in the bathroom. Um,
01:23:39
but before they get a chance to thoroughly examine the house, um, they get a call from the hospital reporting that spider Savage has died, uh,
01:23:50
on the way to the hospital So uh they the district attorney goes to the hospital finds Claudine and he starts to question her about what happened at the house that night Can I just say it a really interesting thing and it almost smart when people who kill someone they don die until they in the hospital because then they have to trample the scene
01:24:12
They have to put their hands all over this person's dying body to try to resuscitate them.
01:24:17
They get them out of there immediately so they don't see how they fall. they don't see details that they would see if the person was already dead when they went into that.
01:24:26
That's right. You know what I mean? They're still alive. Yeah. It's like almost. Yeah.
01:24:30
It's almost horribly better. It's it's. Yeah. As opposed to freeze this tape it. Everybody stay
01:24:36
away. We have time to don't to not touch anything. Right. Exactly. Yeah. Um, okay.
01:24:44
so the district attorney finds claudine and he questions her and she is anxious to explain
01:24:51
that um spider was going out of town and so he was actually showing her how to use the gun
01:24:57
uh-huh so that she would be safe while he was gone oh sure while he was showing her how to use
01:25:02
the gun it went off accidentally it could happen it could happen it was an it was an old antique
01:25:08
gun i have to say that yeah i want to know how to get how a gun works if i was going to be alone
01:25:14
Sure. Yeah. Well, the police are immediately suspicious because these people live in a gated community in Aspen, Colorado.
01:25:24
So they are. I bet they have dogs. Yeah. Yes. There's dogs. Expensive dogs. There's gates.
01:25:30
It's a whole community. Everyone in the whole city makes a shit ton of money or is like a ski bum.
01:25:35
Yeah. Who makes who makes slightly less amount of money. So they're like, not sure.
01:25:41
Yeah. Then the autopsy comes back and shows that Spider Savage was bending over and had his back turned to the doorway when he was shot.
01:25:52
How do they know that they're so smart? It was a downward, the bullet went in in a downward fashion
01:25:58
because it was one shot in the abdomen, but it got his, it's a part of his heart, I believe.
01:26:05
I don't have it written down, but it basically went down through his heart. So he's bending over forward his butt toward her.
01:26:12
Right. I believe. Okay. Okay. So the police have no choice but to say that's premeditated and something incredibly suspicious is going on.
01:26:25
So Claudine is arrested. She's charged with homicide and criminal negligence. and she immediately hires prominent Aspen attorney Ron Austin
01:26:34
who gets her released on bond which the cops said they knew she was going to get released
01:26:39
that's just part of it but they were like because he was saying you can't arrest her
01:26:43
this is her boyfriend she's really upset and they're like no we're arresting her
01:26:47
even if you're going to take her out of here so it turns out she was married to the singer Andy Williams
01:26:55
who you may know he was famous in the 60s he's the one that sang Moon River. He was like a crooner in the 50s and 60s. And he was up there
01:27:05
with like Frank Sinatra and Dean Martin and all those guys. He was just a little more,
01:27:09
he wasn't a Rat Pack guy. He was a little more white bread. He was like a little more
01:27:13
all American. And he had a TV show that for his, the Andy Williams Christmas special
01:27:22
for years was the number one rated television show of all time until one of the Superbos
01:27:29
Bowles knocked it out of its place. Can we watch those in secession? Uh, after we watch the lifetime
01:27:36
stalker Channing movies, then we go into the Andy Williams specials. We can because his wife,
01:27:43
Claudine Lange is on them with him. Oh, wait. Okay. Holy shit. Yes. That's her first husband.
01:27:50
So we're watching the shit out of those. So when she's released from the, from the, um,
01:27:56
uh police department on bond um they call up the aspen airport and have them reopen because it's
01:28:05
late at night so that andy williams can fly in to aspen to go and meet her and get her or like you
01:28:12
know go meet up with her um so that's what i'm talking about where it's like now we're in rich
01:28:17
people territory where like people are kind of doing what they want get a fucking airport open
01:28:21
give that a try right now yeah anyone see what you can do yeah call over the burbank airport
01:28:25
right now and see if you can find your keys. Okay. See if you can get the fucking phone answer.
01:28:32
See if you can Southwest on the line. Listen, do as much as you can and then let us know.
01:28:37
So, um. See if you can get Southwest. Yeah. So the police go back to the house and they, uh, they get a warrant and they start to search
01:28:47
the house and they immediately, and they had, some of the cops had seen it when they were
01:28:52
originally on the scene. her diary is sitting on top of the dresser and it's a big like ledger sized diary. And so one of
01:29:00
the cops, so the cops are taking pictures of the whole scene and processing the scene. One of the
01:29:05
cops takes the diary off the top of the, of the dresser and is looking through it of like, is this
01:29:10
what I think it is? Sees that it is realizes it's her writing her most private thoughts. Why the fuck?
01:29:16
Why does anyone have a diary for real? Stop it. You stupid idiot. Go to a therapist. If you're
01:29:22
going to have a diary, why would it ever, ever, ever be out anywhere? And have it be a ledger?
01:29:28
You think you're that fucking important? Right. Claudine. Well, this is Claudine we're talking about. I don't think she did it because she sounds
01:29:33
really naive. Okay, so while they're processing and taking photographs of the crime scene and of the bedroom,
01:29:42
the photographer takes a picture of the dresser with no diary on top of it because the cop had picked
01:29:49
it up and was looking through it. Then the cop put it back. And then more pictures were taken With the diary okay Love it Yeah okay Why did I put my paper down Because you telling me the best story I had to use my hands to show you what a book looks like
01:30:08
Um, it was a ledger. I could tell by the way, your hands were right. It was nice. It was big.
01:30:12
That string that goes down the middle. So, so that's, that'll come back later. Um,
01:30:19
and also there was a couple other things. Okay. So about clogging. So we'll learn,
01:30:23
We'll learn about her a little bit. Claudine Lange was born in Paris. She moved to Las Vegas when she was 18.
01:30:29
She wanted to be a star. Oh, Jesus. She was a singer. She's gorgeous. She looks like she has a bit of an Amanda Peet look to her.
01:30:38
So like strong feature. Yes. But like a flared nostril. Very sexy, but also very soft-spoken and had kind of like a soft-spoken singing voice.
01:30:49
And the woman who there was somebody that worked with her at the Folle Berger at the Tropicana in Vegas, which was like the big burlesque show in Las Vegas at the time.
01:31:00
And this is before Las Vegas was like cheap and gross. It was like this. This was the late 50s, early 60s.
01:31:06
Jesus. So it was like the best part of Las Vegas. Or I mean, like, yeah, whatever.
01:31:13
The classiest time. This is when people wore like tuxedos to casinos and stuff. and she became a star very quickly
01:31:21
because she was like the French girl who kind of right? Everyone else is like twisting it around.
01:31:29
Someone make a fucking what's it called? A remix of what Karen just did. You don't have to.
01:31:37
Don't worry about it. Okay, so one night Claudine is driving home from her her job at the burlesque show.
01:31:46
Her car breaks down and then a good Samaritan pulls over to help her out. It's Andy Williams.
01:31:52
Oh. So she's the lucky lady. So hot. So they're married on Christmas Day of 1961.
01:32:01
And she's 31 at the time and she's 18. He's 31, she's 18? Yeah. Damn. Damn. This was Vegas in the early 60s.
01:32:12
The next year, Andy Williams released Moon River, which is like legendary. Yeah. All the money. And he was one of the most famous singers at the time. They got a mansion in Malibu. And then in 1963, Andy Williams got his own TV show. And Claudine had a baby the same year and another baby the next year. But she still wanted to be a performer. So she would appear on the Andy Williams show with him as his wife.
01:32:39
I cannot wait to watch these. Yeah. I bet she had so many female orgasms. It was ridiculous.
01:32:44
Well, because she's French and she was raised to be in charge of her own orgasm.
01:32:48
Yes. And to eat a lot of vegetables. Sure. Um, okay. Sorry, I keep bringing that up.
01:32:53
It's so gross. Go on. No, it's all right. Okay. It's not gross. That's the whole point of our podcast.
01:32:57
You're right. Proud. I'm proud. Andy Williams Christmas show. Oh, I told you that already.
01:33:01
He's basically, this guy is like everybody's favorite thing to have on TV because it's
01:33:08
easy to have on TV. Andy Williams had like a Dean Martin quality, but not racy, not drunky.
01:33:15
He was more like the guy from church. It wasn't like soiree. What's the word? Swarthy?
01:33:22
Swarthy. Swarthy? Those were all words. Yeah, but he's not that. No, he's white bread.
01:33:27
Dominic Dunn at this part of the power, privilege, and justice goes, I used to see them at parties in Beverly Hills and thought they were beautiful.
01:33:36
So they were kind of like an early 60s Hollywood power couple. Yeah, I love it. They have a third child in 1969.
01:33:44
And then later that year, they shock all of Hollywood by announcing that they're getting divorced.
01:33:48
Because on the Andy Williams show, it was all very family. And, you know, it was like the Osmonds.
01:33:54
It's that third child, man. I am that one. You always wreck it. I am the third child.
01:33:58
We fucking ruin shit. So soon after her divorce in 1969, she takes her three kids and moves to Aspen.
01:34:06
That's where Spider Savage was living at the time. Spider Savage in the 60s is such a crazy name.
01:34:13
Okay. So he's the local hero. He's the golden boy. So a little bit about Spider Savage.
01:34:20
The reason he has that nickname is because he was born premature. And when his father saw him, he said he was just all arms and legs.
01:34:27
He looked like a little spider. So from a baby, they called him Spider, which is the cutest.
01:34:32
He grew up skiing at Idleweiss Ski Area in Kybers, California, near modern day Sierra at Tahoe Ski Resort.
01:34:41
So it's just basically, it's basically the, you know, that part of Northern California, but the East mountains where it's all, that's kind of what everybody does up there.
01:34:52
It's like snowboarding and skiing all the time. uh and he kind of kicked off like in the 70s skiing all of a sudden got really popular
01:35:03
um in this way where like everyone like when i was in grammar school like high school boys would
01:35:10
wear ski jackets with their lift tickets still on the zipper it was like that where it was
01:35:15
it was that early it was heading into the early 80s where being rich got really popular too
01:35:20
like iZod shirts yeah this was the pre iZod shirt way of having status was like if you skied
01:35:27
yeah because because there's like resorts that's it you don't go for the day yeah yeah you have you
01:35:32
have to have money to ski yeah um so spider side which was like the king of skiing and and really
01:35:39
like made it popular he was um uh in 1968 he made the olympic the winter olympic team placed fifth
01:35:47
in the slalom event. Wow. He was blue-eyed, blonde-haired, good-looking, very skilled with the ladies, and he was the
01:35:53
most famous skier in America. That's good. In 1971, that's when he moved to the United States.
01:36:00
Oh, I forgot to say he torched. This is from that skiing website. The quote was, he torched the ski racing competition in high school and was taken on scholarship to the Colorado University at Boulder to ski with Billy Kidd.
01:36:16
So he basically was, you know, like a little skiing savant. What's up, Boulder? Come on.
01:36:22
See you soon. So, yeah, that's right. Heads up, Boulder. We're going to come ski with you.
01:36:27
Never. Never, ever. so in 71 after his big successes and he's starting to make money and he had a ton
01:36:35
of sponsors and also you see these pictures he was just cool looking like he had a real chiseled jaw
01:36:40
he kind of looked like Dennis Wilson the drummer for the Beach Boys the hot brother where you're like what's he doing
01:36:49
they never let him talk he looked like that guy with like you know he had big sideburns
01:36:54
they never let him talk just let Dennis talk He has to say. So he's the drummer.
01:37:02
So he he always had like striped turtlenecks on. Like he was just cool. He was cool. Dangerous.
01:37:11
He was like a beatnik kind of before. That was like yeah. Like a sunburned cheeks.
01:37:21
Rugged. Outdoorsy. But then also sexy. Super fucking hot. Okay, so 71, he moves to Aspen because it's the place to be for pro skiers.
01:37:31
And obviously he's the star, so he's going to be in the middle of all that. He's 27.
01:37:35
He's the richest pro skier on the circuit. And there was a movie that Robert Redford starred in called Downhill Racer that is allegedly based on Spider Savage's life.
01:37:46
Robert Redford. Totally. Robert Redford played him in the 70s. That's how hot this guy was.
01:37:51
Exactly. Okay. So that's when he moved. you know, he's 27 when he moves into Starwood.
01:37:58
His neighbors are John Denver, who was the hugest music star at the time, and the man who owned Sears, Edgar
01:38:05
Stern, I believe his name was. Jesus. Sears plays into both of our fucking murders.
01:38:09
Sears, baby. Yeah. Sears was, the 70s was all about Sears. Rebecca and Company. There's nothing like looking through the Sears
01:38:17
catalog at Christmas time, trying to figure out what you wanted to get for Christmas.
01:38:21
Do you know that there's some, there's a book there's like three books of it's just sears catalogs from the 650s 60s and 70s
01:38:29
i'm buying this for you you know wacko yes they have all this place in fucking hollywood or like
01:38:35
silver lake has these insane books that someone made they just made the whole catalog that's
01:38:41
crazy sears shit for sale and i would even look i would get so like into greedy what am i gonna get
01:38:48
I want this, I want that, that I would take it into the curtains area. Because right after the toys was like the curtains.
01:38:56
And I'd be like, I want these curtains. With this couch? My greed wouldn't end. It's not greed.
01:39:00
It just kept going. It's just a dream for your future. It was just dreams of having nice things.
01:39:06
And now you can do it. But you have dogs, so you can't. That's right. They'll rip those goddamn curtains down.
01:39:11
It fucking would. Okay, so. Yeah, go. He moves to Aspen. He joins the USA's professional ski racing tour in 1970.
01:39:21
And he's the best one on it. He's a babe magnet, as they would say. And he starts doing celebrity ski racing events that are designed to drum up support and fans for the U.S. Pro Tour that he was on.
01:39:36
Because he did like the World Cup. He was constantly competing as a professional skier.
01:39:41
Yeah. Um, so at one of those events in 1972 in Bear Valley, he meets Claudine Lange. Um,
01:39:48
and they quickly become an item. She, there's a story in that, uh, Dominic Dunn show where it's,
01:39:53
was like, she saw him and she asked a friend who was also a skier, who is that? And then she like,
01:39:59
it was, she was, she, he was in her sights. She was like, I'm getting that guy for her. Um, uh,
01:40:05
So basically it worked. They got together. She moved into his house, took her kids.
01:40:11
They all lived in his house and they became fixtures on the Aspen party circuit.
01:40:16
Now this was 1972 Aspen skiing party circuit. So it's all Coke. I would pay so much money to go to one of those parties.
01:40:25
I mean, imagine like the gold necklaces and the like the tans and the frosty lip gloss.
01:40:31
and it's and amazing like log cabin mansions like those houses of like really high ceilings
01:40:38
of white shag carpeting i would i would kill um and so much coke like coke to your ankles just like
01:40:44
scoop it up off the ground and shove it now they're just skiing on fucking coke it's snow snow snow
01:40:49
everywhere um and they are truly the it crowd so there's a lot of people that actually didn't like
01:40:55
her because she moved in so quickly and he was so popular and had so many girlfriends and friends
01:41:02
and, you know, got around him was this young, you know, beautiful playboy pro athlete. And she
01:41:08
basically got in there and locked that shit down and was like, I'm in your house. We're a boyfriend,
01:41:12
girlfriend. Um, so after she moved in his wild days abruptly ended, which was a hard adjustment
01:41:21
for him. There was fighting. She was very jealous, but she kind of had reason to be.
01:41:26
At one point she had to forbid him from attending the best breast bash in Aspen.
01:41:32
Yes, she should have. Yeah. They were, you know, it was the seventies. Jesus. They would do things. And so this is like these, this inner circle, super rich, like sports
01:41:42
party that they were doing where it's like, well, I'm going to have a party at my house,
01:41:46
bring your best tits. We'll line them up. It's like a wet t-shirt contest where like the thought of that now, it was so normal.
01:41:54
Yeah And this was like a voluntary wet t contest where no one was being paid or anything It wasn at a bar No Yeah that breast So he couldn go
01:42:06
He was mad. She was mad. There's stories of them being at a nightclub, him not paying enough attention to her.
01:42:14
So she throws an entire glass of wine at him from across the room. Jesus. It's all Coke fueled.
01:42:21
Yeah. Everyone loves it though. Yes, exactly. This was back when they didn't think Coke was bad for you.
01:42:27
And by 1975, their relationship was beginning to strain. He was skiing less, partying more.
01:42:33
She had to stay home with kids, of course. She was intensely jealous of the women that he got to constantly interact with
01:42:40
and the women that were totally drawn to him and that I'm sure he was drawn to as well.
01:42:45
By January of 1976, he was telling friends he wanted her out of his life, but she wouldn't leave.
01:42:50
Oh, no. And they say that a lot of the reason that he didn't just kick her to the curb was because he loved her kids and he really cared about her kids and he didn't want them to suffer in any way.
01:43:01
So he kept it going longer than probably he wanted to or should have because he just was so worried about that.
01:43:10
Worried about that. Seriously. So Spider and Claudine spent the morning. Oh, sorry.
01:43:19
By March of 76, he gave her the ultimatum to move out by April 1st. So he waited all that time and then was like, look, you've got to go.
01:43:27
And the only reason I said that already. So they spent the morning of March 21st apart.
01:43:34
He was skiing. She was sipping wine at a bar called Little Mel's. In the morning?
01:43:39
That made me laugh. Chablis. She was 20 fucking bucks and it was Chablis. A nice breakfast wine.
01:43:45
She was like, I fucking hate my life. My hot boyfriend's kicking me out. What am I going to do?
01:43:51
My favorite murder line of breakfast wines. Please. They go with eggs. Yeah. You can pour it into cereal.
01:43:57
Whatever it takes to get you to noon to your lunch beer, to your nap. To your lunch beer.
01:44:06
Okay. So later that day, she joins him at a party at the home of, uh, an ABC sportscaster. I should
01:44:13
have written his name down. It was bill something. Um, but I also love that. It's like, there's an
01:44:18
afternoon party, like, yeah, whatever. Um, but people noted that at this party, they were not
01:44:24
their normal selves. They weren't being warmed. They were barely around each other and they left
01:44:29
separately. A lot of people noted it. Um, so a little bit later that day, she was seen driving
01:44:35
around town erratically. And she eventually drove through the gates of Starwood at a very high rate of speed.
01:44:44
Breakfast wine. Breakfast wine fueled car rage. So many times it's gotten me. Shubbly.
01:44:52
And then very soon after her speeding through the gates of Starwood, the gunshots were reported.
01:44:58
Oh, come on. Yeah. So the ballistics showed that she was standing more than six feet away from Spider when the gun went off.
01:45:11
And Spider's father was a highway patrolman and he grew up with guns. He knew a lot about gun safety and proper gun handling.
01:45:18
And he would have never taught someone to shoot inside the house. That's just basic gun safety stuff.
01:45:25
of, if you're teaching someone how to use a gun, you don't let them hold the gun.
01:45:30
And point it at you. Point it at you, B. And you don't do it in the bathroom. But also, he can't teach her how to use the gun if she's standing six feet away with the
01:45:40
gun and he's got his back to her bending over. Okay. So they also found small indentations in the cartridge of the bullet, which meant that
01:45:52
the gun had jammed and the trigger had been pulled three or four times before it discharged.
01:45:59
No. So, at the trial, that was in January of 1977. God, can you imagine, like, I'm going to kill this person?
01:46:10
No, wait, I'm going to try it. Like, shoot, didn't work. No, I'm going to do it again.
01:46:13
Like, that many times? This fucking whine. Stupid gun. Yeah. She just has to stand there, like, keep trying.
01:46:21
Ugh. And also he's in this, he's about to take a shower. So like, is the shower running?
01:46:28
He can't hear the clicks. Like he's not, he's, she's so far away. He doesn't even know she's in the room.
01:46:34
It's so creepy. Okay. And so different than the original, like what she claimed.
01:46:38
Sure. So at the trial, um, she said that her diary was not out on the dresser, that she had hidden
01:46:47
it away in the drawer. and then the defense showed the photographs, the police photographs
01:46:53
where at one point it's there or when it starts out not there then it's there, which essentially
01:46:58
the police photographs proved her story that it was never out there in the first place
01:47:04
Meaning what? They planted it? Right, but that they found it that they basically weren't allowed
01:47:13
to search because if you have something in a drawer that's not... Really? Yeah, you can't
01:47:17
search for it. That's illegal search and seizure, I guess. Um, so yeah, I guess. So it's like
01:47:23
considered private. I don't know. Like it has to be out in open view. Everyone hide your diaries.
01:47:29
Go now deeply and between your mattresses. So, uh, also, so, so everything written in that diary,
01:47:39
which was all her talking about how the relationship had soured, how he was kicking her out.
01:47:43
They had it all on paper from her voice and none of that was admissible in court.
01:47:50
Then they mishandled the gun. So when a cop picked it up with a handkerchief and put it into the glove box of a cop car That how they dealt with the murder weapon Just like a naked gun into the fucking
01:48:06
They were just like, Murray, can you take this and make sure it gets processed? And he was like, no problem.
01:48:11
Murray, that fucking tissue that you used to blow your nose on 10 minutes ago, can you use that tissue to pick up that gun?
01:48:17
Yeah, and then pass it over here to this guy that's never had a job before. Yeah.
01:48:22
essentially the person that ended up taking the car, this cop took those bullets out of the gun.
01:48:31
And because he was not a trained ballistics expert, all of that information that there were more indentations on the cartridge was
01:48:40
also not admissible in court because anything could have happened when that person was handling the gun.
01:48:45
So now the jury can't know that the relationship was ending or that, it was a misfire. It wasn't just one accidental shot.
01:48:55
The trigger had been pulled up to and maybe more than four times. They did use the autopsy report
01:49:03
to suggest that when Savage was struck, he was bent over, facing away and at least six feet away from her, which was
01:49:11
inconsistent with her story. Now, as this is, as the trial starts, of course Aspen's overrun with reporters and there's, they're everywhere.
01:49:23
They're taking up everything there and they're trying to get stories from everybody. The locals of course are disgusted. They're not having it.
01:49:30
They hate them all. They're not talking to them. Hunter S Thompson lived in Aspen at the time. Oh my God.
01:49:36
And he was quoted as saying, it's like fouling your own nest because basically it's like, you know, they, her shooting him has basically ruined their entire
01:49:46
community. Um, by drawing those people there. Um, also a reporter, a local overheard a reporter
01:49:55
saying, this is the best. We have murder, we have sex and we have drugs. So they were like,
01:49:59
there was reporters were thrilled about this story. Thirsty. Uh, the prosecution rested after
01:50:05
two days arguing that, um, she, that Claudine should have known the gun was going to go off.
01:50:11
and the strategy was because they weren't going to be able to convict her without the actual
01:50:18
evidence that they needed so they wanted to get her on the lesser charge of criminal negligence
01:50:23
the defense put her on the stand and from the first day in court for the jury selection she
01:50:29
was dressed in big baggy gray dresses she was wearing peter pan collars and turtlenecks
01:50:36
she was totally did everything she could to make herself look plain unpretty and not like the gorgeous
01:50:44
starlet that she was yeah she spoke so softly when she was on the stand that the jurors had to lean forward in their
01:50:52
seats to hear her oh that's so manipulative when they have to move their bodies to come here you know right
01:50:57
and like that she when she does there's like a thing where she makes a after she's
01:51:04
uh, after it's over, she makes this public statement and she's like, I just want to say that like,
01:51:12
she really does talk like a little kitten girl all the time. Uh, so, um, she, she maintained it was accidental shooting.
01:51:22
She kept, she stuck to her story. She said she and Spider were still in love. He was her best friend.
01:51:27
She could never kill anyone, especially not him. The jury deliberated for just under three hours.
01:51:33
And the verdict was guilty of negligent homicide, which meant that she could be facing up to two years in prison.
01:51:42
But the judge changed that conviction to a misdemeanor of criminal negligence and sentenced her to spend 30 days in the Pitkin County Jail and to pay a fine of $250.
01:52:00
$250 for taking someone's entire life. Yeah. There were people that were like, people who, like drunk drivers get worse sentences.
01:52:11
Oh my God. And they said that the Pitkin County Jail in Aspen was like Mayberry with really good room service.
01:52:19
Yeah, fucking send me there immediately. They allowed her to repaint her cell pink when she was there.
01:52:24
But she, the judge said that she had to serve her 30 days in jail. But that she could do it when it was convenient for her.
01:52:36
Oh, it's not jury fucking duty. So she, even jury duty, it doesn't work that way.
01:52:42
Yeah. So it was real. Oh, man. Yeah. Real like that. I mean, there's a, you could, you could theorize distantly that maybe someone was on the take.
01:52:52
That it would, it would end up being that forgiving toward her. Sure. The critical reaction to the verdict and toward her and the sentencing was exasperated when she, after the trial was over, went on vacation to Mexico with her defense attorney, Ron Austin.
01:53:11
No. Who was married at the time. Yeah. Honey. They later married and they still live in Aspen.
01:53:19
Like now, now? Well, at the airing of Power, Privilege and Justice. Like you and I could, you and I and Stephen could call the Burbank airport right now and get on a fucking plane and go meet them?
01:53:28
No, the Burbank airport's closed. Not for us? No. Stephen, call the Burbank airport.
01:53:34
After the criminal trial, Savage's parents filed a $3 million wrongful death lawsuit against Lange in May of 1977.
01:53:42
That was eventually resolved out of court in September of 1979 with the proviso that Lange never tell or write about the story.
01:53:52
Wow. And Mick Jagger wrote a song called Claudine for the Emotional Rescue Rolling Stones album No way It was never released because they found out about it and like basically said we sue you
01:54:05
Shit. Uh-huh. Lost track. Right? And that is the murder of Spider Savage. I have never even fucking heard that name before.
01:54:16
Really? I think I considered it, like, kind of a moldy oldie of, like, because it's so sensational.
01:54:21
It's so celebrity and rich people. I want to see their photos. I want to see how I've never. And so they're still alive.
01:54:29
Uh, he's not, let's say no. Come on. You said they, wait, what? Wait, start over. I miss
01:54:39
tell it again. I miss the middle. Uh, wow. I don't know if she's still alive because I actually,
01:54:45
as I was pulling up to your house, it was looking up Claudie Lange today and hitting things. And
01:54:50
And like, I can't drive. You shouldn't be. I shouldn't. But then also, if my glasses on, I can't read small print.
01:54:56
Yeah. Let's pretend she is. You know what? That can be everybody else. And if you're interested in the Claudine Lager story, go ahead and Google it.
01:55:05
Yeah. And then tell us about it on Twitter. That's right. If there's anything good.
01:55:08
My friend, John Levenstein, who I work with, is we were actually talking about it in the
01:55:14
room today. And he said, I think there was a hoax. There was something about a hoax in that case.
01:55:19
But I couldn't. I looked it up in four different ways and I couldn't find anything about what he was talking about.
01:55:24
Where are her kids is what I want to know. And can they have a podcast? Well, Andy Williams, when all that started, he flew in and he would go to court with her.
01:55:33
He like stood by her and really supported her. And I think maybe just as much for the kids as anyone else.
01:55:40
But like there was there was a bit of a like united front presentation in that way.
01:55:47
Which always helps the defense when. But it also helps those kids. Like, it's not, I mean, at least they had someone.
01:55:55
I don't know. And it just makes me feel slightly better that they could go back to their Malibu mansion and go live there and, you know.
01:56:02
Yeah. And at least have a dad around. Normal-ish life. Oh, man. Yeah. What a boomer.
01:56:13
Okay, we are back. Karen, do you have any updates? I do. Yes. Claudine Lange is now in her 80s, still married to that former lawyer, Ron Austin.
01:56:24
In 2022, it was revealed that Spider Savage had a daughter in 1967. Her name is Missy Grice.
01:56:31
She didn't know who her birth father was until she was 20 years old. She's now contributed to various documentary projects on her father's life.
01:56:40
Recently, she worked with Amy Redford, who is Robert Redford's daughter, on her feature-length documentary.
01:56:45
and Amy Redford says that this documentary tells the whole Spider Savage story. So it looks like it's still in production,
01:56:54
but it's really cool this idea that there's going to be like this kind of like next generation of TV and films
01:57:02
that are these stories that we have been talking about for 10 years. You know what I mean?
01:57:08
Like all of these things that when we hear about them or they come up, it's like, I can't wait to see that.
01:57:13
And I can't wait to see how somebody else tells the story. I know, like when I was researching the mainline murders again, I was like, I wish I could redo this story because it's so fascinating.
01:57:22
I want to talk about it now again. I mean, I wish I could redo every single goddamn episode that we've heard so far.
01:57:28
Hopefully that's a given, people that listen to these understand that. Right. Because we just do so many great ones.
01:57:34
And it used to be when we did these stories, like my documents were never more than five pages long.
01:57:40
Isn't that hilarious? That's so funny. They're not three times longer. Yeah. They're so much longer now.
01:57:45
I fear what I was like then. I was 37 at the time. This was episode 75. We've done 500 episodes now.
01:57:53
Like that, I want to do some re, like let's start from the beginning and do them all over.
01:57:59
What if we did 500 episodes again? Oh, the real answer? Yeah. The final murder would be our double murder for sure.
01:58:07
Wouldn't it? Doesn't it feel like it? Yes. All right. Well, let's head back in to wrap up the show.
01:58:14
What's your Positive Positive of the week I don't know yet What's yours I went first last week
01:58:23
I just worked so hard Telling my whole story For so long I was just trying So hard to think of it
01:58:28
You know what It's Running errands With Vince Like He's not working right now Which is great
01:58:36
I mean he's He's our tour manager But Yeah he's working a lot He's working a lot
01:58:40
He doesn't have to go to He doesn't have to go to a job Yes he doesn't have to go anywhere
01:58:43
which is kind of new for us and like you know they're all these stupid like to go to the post
01:58:48
office and i have to go to the fact here to get my prescription i have to do this and that and
01:58:52
like we go together and then we go get lunch while we're doing it it's just like it's so nice i like
01:58:58
being alone a lot but i don't mind it when i'm with him i'd rather be with him than alone which
01:59:04
is really rare for me so it's just running errands with him makes me really fucking happy like we did
01:59:09
today and it was just that's nice just fucking cool it's much better with him around it's good
01:59:16
you married him i know right it's gonna keep him around a little bit yeah at least to our tour
01:59:20
what's yours um i'm trying to think i mean i love that dinner that we got to go to
01:59:29
our friends invited us to a weekly dinner that they do which was very cool and it was just like
01:59:35
one of those things where I was sitting there and it was such good food and it was such fun,
01:59:40
like smart, funny people. And it was one of those, the feel of it. I was like, Oh, this
01:59:46
is how like healthy adults live their life. Like you, this is, this is how you're supposed
01:59:52
to do it. It's not like you have, when you have a weekly meeting, it's like you have, uh, it's not like,
02:00:00
When I see you, it's like you have this obligation to these people. And throughout the week, like however bad your week is, you know, you're still going to see these people on Sunday and it's going to be nice.
02:00:09
And I kind of like what people make a community for themselves or make like if you don't have the family around you that maybe either you used to have or that some people other people do have or don't have.
02:00:23
You still set up. Yeah. Kind of like a community for yourself. It's good. I think it's so healthy for people.
02:00:30
It's nice when you turn your friends into family. So thanks, Dave clock for inviting us.
02:00:35
Thanks Dave clock. And also, uh, thanks for that restaurant. I don't know. Maybe we shouldn't blow it up, but, um, because I, I don't normally like red sauce and that
02:00:46
bread, there was a bowl of red sauce. They gave you to dip your bread in. And I was just like, I would like to do this for the rest of my life.
02:00:52
And the bread was just like insane rosemary bread. that was just like fucking the best friend I've ever had.
02:00:59
It was really good. That was really nice. Yeah. Yes. Because the first thing I thought it was like,
02:01:04
I did a comedy show, but I was like, I hated my set and I hate this and me, me, me, me, me, me.
02:01:09
Yeah. And so I don't know. All right. Well, that's, I think that's lovely. Thanks.
02:01:18
Okay. We are back. I just got to say this The thing that I say that is my favorite thing of the week we talk about going out to dinner with our friends and how lovely it was And it was And one of those friends that we are
02:01:32
at dinner with that night has since died. And it is one of the saddest, first of all, like,
02:01:38
one of the saddest deaths of a young person who died too young. His name is Neil Mahoney.
02:01:44
And it breaks my heart to think about that night and how fun and excited I was and we all were
02:01:50
to be there and what a great time we were having. And I just think it's a good thing to point out
02:01:55
of like, do not take your friends for granted. Do not take your family for granted. Don't really
02:02:01
take any of this for granted. Because as I've said a thousand times, we're on a clock. And
02:02:06
it's kind of shocking to look back and be like, oh, that makes me really sad to be like, that was
02:02:11
this highlight of my week. Totally. And it feels so recent, but so long ago. It was so long ago.
02:02:18
it's just crazy how much things change it really is it's i mean it is weird too because this is our
02:02:24
lives that we're looking back on right it's nuts it's our actual lives none of this was fucking
02:02:30
written for your enjoyment and actually we were just like at home not doing the things we're
02:02:35
talking about but then the other side of that is that it's so cute you're like my favorite thing
02:02:40
this week is me and vince ran errands together where i'm just and here we are 10 years later
02:02:45
No, I know. It's just so sweet. And hearing about the pod loft and my new apartment that I was so excited about you know and it like things are so different now I was able to like buy a home
02:02:58
Yeah. Vince is with me every day running errands still. It's very, I just feel like no time has passed and so much fucking time has passed at the same time.
02:03:07
Yeah. It's wild. Okay. So for the titles of this episode, it's originally called Breakfast Wine.
02:03:13
But if we were going to name it today based on something else, maybe we would name it.
02:03:17
Oh, pocket full of glitter, which is my demand to Steven. I love it. We could also call it a skipper's dream show because it was so short in the intro.
02:03:28
Yeah, that's true. And by short, we meant not 35 minutes long. Insanity. Also, we could call it every other kind of math, which is Georgia's joke about being bad at the present math she's talking about and every other kind of math.
02:03:42
Always and forever. All right. Well, thank you guys for listening to another episode of Rewind.
02:03:46
Rewind. Let's let us say goodbye in 2017. Thank you guys for listening and for being fucking cool as shit.
02:03:57
And we're on Twitter and Instagram and all these places and all that stuff. And thank you. Yeah, thank you.
02:04:04
And mostly stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Elvis, you want a cookie? Wait, you want a cookie?
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