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and became sought after by patients. He promised to heal them. Instead, he left a trail of broken bodies.
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This is a story of greed, betrayal, and a fight for justice. Listen to Dr. Death the Cowboy wherever you get your podcasts
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or binge the entire series right now only with Audible. Goodbye. The best parts of summer aren't just places,
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Terms and conditions apply. See pandora.net for more details. Goodbye. Goodbye. Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder.
00:02:07
That's Georgia Hardstart. That's Karen Kilgariff. And this is... I just had caffeine, so I'm ready to fucking go.
00:02:20
We are about to start our senior honor choir, and you are going to be the subject of it.
00:02:26
Happy holidays, everyone. Are you having fun? Are you stuck at the house you grew up in with the people you grew up with?
00:02:34
What kind of quilt is on you right now? Did your great aunt make it for you? Has it ever been washed?
00:02:41
Is it the cat's favorite quilt? Does it smell like cat pee? Yeah. Yes, it does. That means it's Christmas.
00:02:46
Do you ever have that when someone comes over and they cuddle up with a pillow and you don't want to say to them like, that's the dog's pillow?
00:02:52
Does that rabbit? Oh, my God. That has all the time to me. You know, it's funny as I just hope no one ever goes and sits down on my couch like independently because I'm like, you're not going to.
00:03:02
You're just going to get hair all over your side. I mean, you can. Like that's exactly where she puts her butthole.
00:03:08
But I can't tell you that now. Because you're putting your butthole there. Stop putting your butthole on my dog's butt.
00:03:17
Jesus Christ. That's the theme for this holiday season. Amen. Stop it. Okay. We do have, speaking of holiday season, we like asked people how they were giving back.
00:03:29
Oh, and you've got some anecdotes? I do because we're doing our December donation thing and I have a funny one.
00:03:36
If you want to hear it. Yes, please. I'm giving back this season a whole lot of Catholic daughter shit.
00:03:41
I usually try to do my holiday giving to strangers, folks with deep needs I've never faced.
00:03:46
But this year I find those closest to me need a hand in ways only someone close is really equipped for.
00:03:52
I'm the never married childless adult daughter in my family. And we're all entering the holiday season for the first time without my dad, who died just after New Year's 2025.
00:04:01
Sorry. My mom's 80, frail, and alone for the first time since a one-year period in the early 70s.
00:04:08
Between her leaving the covent and meeting— Convent. Between leaving the convent and meeting my dad on a beach in New Jersey.
00:04:16
Can we leave in covent? Because I want her to have actually been a Satan worshiper.
00:04:21
She covets that story. Okay, so the nun left the convent, went to the beach, and picked up a man.
00:04:28
Yeah. I love it. And never left his side. No. My sister has a years-long immune condition that can make chasing after her grammar school-aged little boys a real uphill climb.
00:04:37
So my spring, summer, and holiday giving isn't shifts at a food bank or checks to charities.
00:04:42
It's lugging in the cat litter for mom's pets, sorting her recyclables every week,
00:04:47
And joining her for an occasional menthol light on kitchen stools by the window while we watch Wheel of Fortune.
00:04:52
Oh. That sounds amazing. That is the dream. Yeah. Or figure skating competitions.
00:04:57
Yeah. It's listening to my nephew's bitch about the nature walks I march them on, let my sister nap in the afternoon,
00:05:03
and my stumbling through impenetrably complex Pokemon battles so she can go out and get a massage.
00:05:10
Yeah. I can mope a little like I'm the Cinderella in all this, but your question about how we're all getting back allows me to make the case
00:05:16
I may actually be more like a luminous angel or Tinkerbell in all of this. That's right.
00:05:21
At least that's how I'll think about it next time I'm kneeled down scooping a cat box for someone I love.
00:05:27
E in Oregon. E, what a beautiful, thank you for sending that in and what a beautiful sentiment.
00:05:33
Yeah. Because that is everything to the people you love the most. Totally. So what a donation to give.
00:05:39
Yeah. There's always something you could do even if you don't think you have the means.
00:05:42
Yeah. For example, when I'm home with my father over the holidays and I get myself coffee from usually Pete's Coffee downtown, have it delivered to the house because it's seven in the morning.
00:05:55
I get him a lemon loaf Oh Karen I get him a lemon loaf I won make him get his own Just for Christmas for the whole year Just for Christmas Oh God yeah Okay don go
00:06:05
Because you don't want to spoil them. Like, calm down. Calm down, Jim. Dad, that's your lemon loaf.
00:06:10
So I don't know what else you want from me. Did I tell you on this podcast, really the only time that counts,
00:06:19
that when I came home from Thanksgiving, when I drove home, it was 12 hours in the car?
00:06:24
You did. We talked about it. God damn. I talked about it with Vince. Like it was so hard to hear.
00:06:30
So we discussed it. I drove back down and then back up. No, I know. I just still can't get over it.
00:06:36
But also nothing else has happened to me since that time. I've really taken it easy.
00:06:41
Actually, that's a good segue. I have a podcast in case you're driving 12 hours.
00:06:45
Oh, perfect. Or you want to leave your life for a minute in your head. I binged this podcast in 26 hours.
00:06:51
It's 10 episodes. and I binged it within a little over a day. Oh, shit. Because it was so fucking good.
00:06:58
Okay. It's called Beth's Dead. So my friend, Elizabeth Lame, she's been a podcaster since 2010.
00:07:04
So she's like, oh, gee, has always done it with her husband, Andy Rosen. She's the sweetest person.
00:07:09
And they stopped podcasting suddenly out of nowhere because they had a really awful experience with a listener.
00:07:18
Oh, no. And so they told their friend, Monica Padman, from Armchair Expert about it.
00:07:23
And Monica, as podcasters do, said, let's make a podcast about it. So it's 10 episodes called Beth's Dead about,
00:07:31
they had to quit podcasting because they were so afraid for their lives. But the whole podcast,
00:07:36
it's almost like they're opening it back up and looking into it. And Monica's kind of leading them along the way
00:07:42
to like find out what happened. It does not end the way you think it's going to end.
00:07:46
It's actually kind of heartwarming. What? Really? Yeah. I mean, I don't want to spoil it, but I'll use the term catfishing and I'll just throw it out there because I know you love a good catfishing story.
00:07:57
I mean, I think it's from being too old to be on like the apps and really a part of the real social part of the Internet.
00:08:06
Do you have FOMO of being catfished? A little bit. I just never I wasn't picked even to be catfished.
00:08:14
They didn't know how to get a hold of me. You're such a pick me girl when it comes to catfishing.
00:08:18
I really am. I really am. Wait, I'm trying to. OK, I'm following that now. OK, Beth's dead.
00:08:22
I love it. You just can't put it down. Put it down. Yeah. Put it down of your ears.
00:08:28
That's a really cool one, too, because it's like it deserves to be explained or like gone
00:08:32
into. Yeah. But, you know, they say like, well, and I don't know anything about it, but it's like
00:08:37
usually you're not supposed to give those things air. And they made a whole fucking series about it.
00:08:42
But it's also like explores parasocial relationships. So she was like telling me that I should listen just as like a cautionary tale.
00:08:48
Really? I do all of it wrong. Yes. I mean, it's so hard. It is. And also it isn't the same as, I don't know.
00:08:55
It's just such a weird, different time. It's like there need to be updated rules for this time.
00:09:01
And it was 2015. So she kind of, and she's such a sweetheart. She didn't really know that the relationship isn't what you think it's going to be.
00:09:08
It's fucking gnarly. Okay. We all have to listen to Beth's dead and really process some stuff.
00:09:13
Yeah. All right. Well, I got reminded by our writer, Allison, and our producer, Molly, as a fun news update for the Parley Overpass, which was featured, and I talked about it, in episode 250, Look Who's Passing, which later became an MFM animated Claire the Bossy Deer.
00:09:34
Yes. And it was all about that they built this overpass so that animals could basically not be in the road anymore.
00:09:42
And Utah State University, because it happened in Utah, the Division of Wildlife Resources and Transportation, I guess.
00:09:50
God love them. Right. Love their work. Love their work. Oh, those bitches are so real.
00:09:56
I caught it. But basically, the overpass is going so good. 77% reduction in wildlife vehicle collisions.
00:10:07
A $15 million cost benefit over the bridge's lifetime. And their favorite finding is moose successfully crossed 100% of the time.
00:10:17
You never missed a moose. Because a moose will kill you if you fucking hit it with your car, too.
00:10:21
Oh, yeah. Like, that's deadly. It is. It's not like running over a squirrel. Not that I'm condoning that, but like.
00:10:28
No. Although they can be pretty aggressive sometimes. Let's be honest. What if I wanted that acorn?
00:10:35
You didn't even ask me. It's my front yard. Oh, my God. There's a dead squirrel rotting in our backyard and we're not doing anything about it.
00:10:42
Oh. I have a lot of like animal stories from my backyard. Yeah. It sounds like a palatial, gorgeous, tropical jungle.
00:10:49
It's not. But a lot happens in there. Should we do our network highlights? Yeah. So we have a podcast network and this holiday season, we'd love for you to listen to some podcasts on it.
00:11:02
That's right. So while we have you here, just a quick reminder, our newest podcast, Brief Recess, a legal podcast with Michael Foote and Melissa Malbranch, which, by the way, such a delightful.
00:11:14
You want to talk about parasocial relationship. I just want to hang out and talk to those guys or listen to them talking all day long.
00:11:20
Seriously. If you haven't listened to it, it kind of has a little bit of everything.
00:11:25
They're addressing these horrifying things that are happening in our world right now.
00:11:29
But in a lighthearted way. But also. But also a call to action. But a call to action, but then slay, boots down, all the things you want.
00:11:39
Yeah. But just to remind you, they are on YouTube because it is a podcast, but it's a video podcast as well.
00:11:46
So every single episode comes out on video. You can watch Michael and Melissa as well as listen to them.
00:11:52
So please go over to their YouTube page youtube slash at brief recess and like subscribe interact do all the things that uh let people know that you like something but also enjoy a video podcast yeah it the future you so young and
00:12:07
with it and if you're craving more content over the holidays now is the time to join the fan cult
00:12:13
at fan cult dot supercast dot com you'll get every episode of my favorite murder ad free plus
00:12:20
exclusive audio and video, so much video content and more. And if that doesn't satisfy you, then follow My Favorite Murder on Instagram and on TikTok.
00:12:29
We're on TikTok too. And make sure you don't miss any of our clips or our polls or our special announcements
00:12:35
and all the other things that we have over there. We've been blowing up social media lately because Shannon, our social media manager,
00:12:41
has been just fucking working her butt off and killing it. Shannon McAnally. That's right.
00:12:47
Please, please follow us. She's a legend. And for our last minute holiday shoppers, don't worry, we've got you.
00:12:53
The Exactly Right Store has easy gift options that don't require express shipping.
00:12:57
Head to exactlyrightstore.com to shop gift cards or sign up for the Fan Cult for someone you love at fancult.supercast.com.
00:13:05
That's right. What a great gift. It's a really good gift. And you can get subscriptions for three, six or 12 months, depending on how much you like the person you're buying it for.
00:13:13
And like how long are you going to be in my life? I don't know. So let's just try three months.
00:13:16
Yeah, let's do three months and see how you do. How I decide you do. That's right.
00:13:21
Oh, also, it's time for another December donation. Oh, yeah. I like this part. This is very fun.
00:13:27
Every December, we like to spend the month giving to groups doing life-changing work here in the United States and, of course, around the world.
00:13:34
So today we're donating $10,000 to World Central Kitchen, led by Chef Jose Andres.
00:13:40
They provide meals to communities in crisis, getting food to people quickly after natural disasters, conflicts, and humanitarian emergencies.
00:13:47
Their mission is to use the power of food to heal, support, and rebuild communities when they need it the most.
00:13:53
In 2024, World Central Kitchen supported families impacted by conflict and disasters in 20 countries, providing over 109 million meals.
00:14:01
So if you'd like to join us in supporting their work, head to WCK.org. And if donating isn't your thing right now, you can also explore volunteer opportunities at WCK.org slash volunteer.
00:14:14
So yay, December donations. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.
00:14:24
The future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age 14. Making plays that end up on everyone's feed, scoring from angles that don't make sense, rewriting record books that barely had time to gather dust.
00:14:34
Because Next doesn't wait for an invitation, and Hyundai doesn't either. Hyundai has always moved the future within reach.
00:14:40
Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle. Hyundai did it by engineering EVs with ultra-fast charging capability.
00:14:48
And Hyundai continues doing it every day. From robotics that change how people live to young athletes changing the game,
00:14:54
the future isn't some far-off concept. It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA.
00:15:00
Goodbye. If you're always on the lookout for a great audiobook or just want help figuring out what to listen to next,
00:15:06
there's a podcast you should know about. It's called Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club, hosted by Cal Penn.
00:15:13
Each episode takes a closer look at some of the most talked about new audiobooks on Audible, spanning a wide range of genres from sci-fi and literary fiction to rom-coms, thrillers, and comedy.
00:15:22
Cal is joined by guests who dig into what these stories are about, what makes them stand out as audiobooks, and why they're connecting with listeners right now.
00:15:29
If you're looking for your next listen, this is a great place to start. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:15:39
Goodbye. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. It's 2026. And if you have an alternative career like food photography or professional mixtape making or witchcraft, you're going to need an online presence.
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00:16:31
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00:16:39
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00:17:00
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I am a fan of Quince. Yeah, Karen's wardrobe is Quince-centric. I'm a lazy basics person, and the things that I get from them, I always go, oh yeah, now I'm wearing these.
00:17:23
They work, they're cute, they're stylish. And they're classy. Yeah. Like, it doesn't look lazy, it looks classy.
00:17:30
And it's so affordable. Yeah. Elevate your summer wardrobe. Go to quince.com slash MFM for free shipping on your order and 365 day returns.
00:17:38
Now available in Canada, too. That's quince.com slash MFM for free shipping and 365 day returns.
00:17:46
Quince.com slash MFM. Goodbye. All right. Well now it is a solo show time for you to do your Christmas thing Okay and this story is just so into the holiday spirit Okay No it not Oh But it good
00:18:05
Okay. And it's fun, and I'm excited to tell you about it. Okay. But you're going to know about it, because this is a story that if you were alive and at least semi-conscious during the 90s, you vividly remember this story.
00:18:19
It was a huge media sensation, the way only 90s media could do, tackless and vulgar and in your fucking face constantly.
00:18:29
When they banned smoking? No. Now we know what was important to you about that. Tell the whole story about.
00:18:36
I just remember being like, it's never going to work. Right. No one's ever going to do this.
00:18:41
Smoking or non. And Coco's, you have to. Coco's at 2 a.m. We used to smoke in Denny's.
00:18:48
That's the new question of how old are you? No. Have you ever had a cigarette in Denny's?
00:18:52
Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No. Okay. So it's January 6th, 1994, and it will be the country's most infamous January 6th for the
00:19:03
next 17 years. Then there will be one that you can't beat. That's right. We're at the Kobo Arena in Detroit, Michigan, a day before the U.S. figure skating championships.
00:19:14
And we all know what's about to happen. Yes, we do. This is the story of Nancy Kerrigan and Tanya Harding.
00:19:22
I mean, God, this is crazy. It was such a wild, like, story. It was huge. It was on the cover of, like, every magazine.
00:19:33
People wouldn't shut up about it. Yeah. It was one of the biggest fucking stories of the 90s.
00:19:38
So good. If you don't know about it yet, you should. The main sources for the story are an essay in The Believer by Sarah Marshall.
00:19:44
And she actually hosts a podcast, You're Wrong About, which is super good. Oh, yeah, that's a good podcast.
00:19:48
And the ESPN 30 for 30 documentary called The Price of Gold. Remember when I called it 30 by 30 and everyone got mad?
00:19:55
No one got mad. I just love how often I've done that. We're just like, you know, on 30 by 30, people like, it's 30 for 30.
00:20:05
Just like, we're like, we did a whole thank you of when we were in People magazine and like, we shared a page with some band and I said the name wrong.
00:20:13
Oh, yeah. Like, it's actually bandit foot. Okay. My favorite murder. We're going to get it wrong.
00:20:18
Yeah. Essentially. That's right. All right. So we all know this part, I think. There's some people that weren't born for like 10 years.
00:20:28
Also, just like lately, with the way things are going, remind us of the good times.
00:20:33
Yeah. I was thinking about it. It's like there's a possibility, a lot of listeners who hadn't been born yet.
00:20:39
But is it possible that some listeners' parents hadn't been born yet? Let's not talk about that.
00:20:43
Okay. Babies having babies. All right. These babies. So Nancy Kerrigan is practicing her routine for the U.S. championships.
00:20:52
Nancy, along with several other American skaters, most notably Tonya Harding, is vying for a spot on the Olympic team.
00:20:59
She'll need to place first at this championship or maybe second in order to go. So it's a big deal.
00:21:06
Now, Nancy's America's sweetheart in the only way Olympic hopefuls can be. Like, it's just such a thing that we put on them of like, we need you to be perfect and represent our country exactly how we want you to.
00:21:19
Yeah. Seems like a lot of pressure. It's a lot of pressure. And also, especially in ice skating, I think there's not a lot of people that can do it unless they have money.
00:21:26
That's right. Yeah. Yes. So Nancy is pretty and elegant and she's talented but humble and is the quintessential ice princess that the public and ice skating judges root for.
00:21:37
So she is that quintessential beautiful ice skater. A camera crew is in the rink filming her practice.
00:21:44
When she finishes, Nancy walks off the ice and disappears through a black curtain to walk through a hallway to the locker rooms.
00:21:51
Her coaches, Evie and Mary Scottvold, who are married, are nearby finishing up a conversation with some friends.
00:21:58
And then they're going to follow Nancy out to the locker rooms. But before they can do that, they hear a blood-curdling shriek coming from the hallway.
00:22:06
They run through the curtain to see Nancy crumpled in a heap on the ground. I mean, I'll never forget this video.
00:22:12
I'll never forget the sound of her voice. She's gripping her knee and sobbing, and the camera crew runs out, too.
00:22:18
They start rolling, and the video of Nancy on the floor in her pretty white costume bawling
00:22:24
will become infamous, particularly that she's yelling over and over again, desperately asking,
00:22:31
Why? Why? Why? I'll never forget it. Yeah. It was just why? Why would anything bad happen to me?
00:22:39
Is that how you take it? Oh, my God. Well, here's the thing. As you were saying that, and I've never thought about this before, I'm like, well, of course, because it's the Olympics and there's camera crews everywhere.
00:22:50
But it is so like weirdly perfect. The idea that they did this there. Yeah. Where everything even back then would be recorded and like found out is it's such a crazy plan.
00:23:03
It's really stupid. It's a stupid plan. And it falls apart quickly. But it's funny that like, so we all have preconceived notion of this story.
00:23:10
Like Nancy is the victim, but we don't like her for whatever reason. Tanya, you know, you're on her side for some reason, even though she's very unlikable in a lot of ways.
00:23:21
And it's really hard to root for her, especially like in her own interviews. Yes.
00:23:25
But, you know, it's been shaped by the media, our view. And also we've all been raised to hate women so much that we can figure out a way to hate any woman.
00:23:34
You don't have to cheat. You can be the victim. You could be the perpetrator. You could be whatever.
00:23:39
And that's how we do it to women. Whereas, like, there'll be some dude standing there and you're just like, I don't know.
00:23:45
He's fine. You're like, I hate her. I don't like the way she was crying for being hit in the fucking knee.
00:23:51
I didn't like the way she was wailing in pain. That bothers me. It's stuck up the way she was wailing in pain.
00:23:57
So, yeah. So it's fucked up. And she's just curious. an innocent victim. She won't give a lot of interviews about this. She just tries to move
00:24:04
on with her life. So we kind of don't have... Can you imagine how many times they've asked her
00:24:08
about it? Just like for 50 years. Yeah. It wasn't 50 years, though. No. It feels like it, though.
00:24:14
30? 30. So it comes out that a large, unknown man in a leather jacket has just snuck up out of
00:24:20
nowhere and whacked her one time in the leg with a long metal object. And Evie Scottfold, the husband
00:24:26
in the husband and wife coach team that coaches Nancy looks up to see this man crashing through a locked glass door of the arena.
00:24:34
Oh. Like it's locked. So have you seen the movie, I, Tonya? I have, but I don't remember this part.
00:24:40
I don't know if this actually happens, but in the movie he smashes his forehead through the glass
00:24:44
because the door is like bolted shut or locked shut. I don't know if that happened,
00:24:49
but somehow he smashes the window and like bolts out. So first of all, like not subtle, dude.
00:24:54
You planned this, sir. Plan an exit. You plan an exit that's not chained and locked.
00:25:00
And also it's the Olympics, so you're not going to have the easiest ins and outs around the practice area.
00:25:05
Right. So everyone looks for him, but no one can find him. And they try to chase him, but they lose him.
00:25:12
But still, Evie will wind up saying to his wife, Mary, that night and surprises her that he suspects Nancy's main competitor, Tanya Harding, has something to do with the attack.
00:25:22
Oh, immediately. Fuck. Tanya and Nancy are both 24 years old, and they both come from working class backgrounds on opposite sides of the country.
00:25:30
So Nancy is born in 1969 and grows up in Stoneham, Massachusetts. Her dad, Daniel, is a welder, and her mom, Brenda, is a stay-at-home mom.
00:25:40
And Brenda is legally blind, having lost most of her vision from a virus she got when Nancy was a baby.
00:25:46
Oh, my God. Yeah. So Nancy has two brothers who play hockey. And while the family's not at all wealthy, once Nancy shows an aptitude for figure skating around the time she's eight years old, they put everything into it.
00:25:59
And as you said, professional ice skating is not fucking cheap. It's almost like horseback riding to me where it's just like there's so many things you have to buy.
00:26:08
Yeah. You have to buy ice time, like spend money to be on the ice, coaching, costumes, all of that shit.
00:26:16
Those skates, we bought, me and Laura bought Nora because Nora got into ice skating.
00:26:21
It was really cute. She was pretty good at it. But we bought her for Christmas the most beautiful pair of ice skates, and she grew out of them within like nine months.
00:26:30
Like she needed another pair where I was like. How much were they? I can't remember.
00:26:34
I mean, but it was like that kind of thing where you're just like, oh, yeah, they're kids.
00:26:38
Right. And you have to do that over and over their whole career. My kid would sit at home.
00:26:43
Yeah. Nancy's dad at times works three jobs to afford Nancy's coaching, costumes, and ice time.
00:26:50
Why didn't they tell this story when it happened? Now I feel so guilty. No. I thought she was rich.
00:26:55
She was not rich. I just assumed. She just, you know what she was rich in, which I think a lot of people don't give enough credit for, is having a stable family.
00:27:04
And that's a privilege in itself. And, you know, she had that. And that's great.
00:27:08
And good for her. And it doesn't even seem like there was an actual rivalry between Tanya and Nancy.
00:27:14
It was just that Nancy was her biggest competition. So Nancy had nothing to fucking do with this, really.
00:27:19
Right. That's a very meaningful thing about the family thing. That's very true. Because it was almost like, we're all going to pitch in and make this happen.
00:27:26
Right. Like, they all traveled together to her competitions, even her brothers. She stayed in the same hotel room with her parents.
00:27:32
You know, it's just like that. I don't want to stay in a hotel room with my parents.
00:27:36
No. I never have. That's not fun at all. And at one point, her dad takes a job driving the Zamboni at the rink in exchange for Nancy's ice time.
00:27:44
So they're dedicated. They don't have tremendous means, but it's clearly a very loving and very stable household.
00:27:50
I feel so guilty. Good. That's what I'm trying to do. On the other side of the country in Portland, Oregon, which it's like rural Portland, Oregon.
00:28:00
This is not like Portland now. Hipster. It's not keep Portland weird. No. It's like you own a gun and you go hunting Portland, you know.
00:28:09
And so there, Tanya Harding is born into tougher circumstances. Tanya's dad, Albert, works odd jobs and suffers from various health problems, which stop him from being able to work at times.
00:28:19
Her mother, LaVonna, played by Allison Janney, epically, I mean. Unbelievable. So incredibly good night, Tanya, that it's uncomfortable.
00:28:27
Yeah. She works as a waitress, and the family's home and financial situation is chaotic.
00:28:33
Yeah. And then can I just say, like, some 30 years later, we're just now starting to learn about how chaos and poverty in childhood can lead to subsequent cognitive and social development issues, impair the development of executive function in children.
00:28:47
It changes the child's brain structure even, which can lead to anxiety and difficulties with social skills, mental health issues, et cetera.
00:28:56
Look it up and go to therapy, everyone. And it's not an excuse. It's just kind of to say where her head was, you know?
00:29:05
Right. So when Tanya's three years old, a new mall opens up nearby. And I want to say the name of it because I love it.
00:29:10
It's the Clackamas Town Center. I don't know why I fucking love that word. I've been there.
00:29:15
Clackamas? They have an ice skating rink right in it. That's what I was going to say.
00:29:19
Sorry, I keep jumping you. I'm not trying to at all. You know this story. Probably better than I do.
00:29:23
It has a skating rink right in the very center of it. And somehow LaVonna finds the money to get Tanya skating lessons.
00:29:29
And it's clear from the very beginning that she is a supremely talented skater and athlete from three years old.
00:29:35
Well, I mean, that's the thing because Nora was good at it, too. She was at a friend's birthday party at the Charles Schultz Snoopy ice rink in Santa Rosa.
00:29:43
And they're just like, she's very good at this and likes it a lot. So my sister's like, I mean, it's really fun.
00:29:50
but the dedication you have to sit in the most freezing room and just watch your kids spin in circles I didn even think about it for the parents Especially California parents who are just like I don know isn it hot outside
00:30:05
Yeah, you're not in a lawn chair with a beer. It's like the worst possible. Fuck that.
00:30:10
Like Nancy's parents, LaVonna does as much as she can to fund Tanya's skating, but it's
00:30:15
harder for her and she also puts a lot of pressure on Tanya, as we see in the movie.
00:30:20
Most people seem to come to the conclusion that ice skating will be Tanya's only shot
00:30:24
at a more comfortable life than the one she was born into. It's like this or nothing.
00:30:29
And it seems like they share that with her, this growing child. Yes. That's, this is it.
00:30:35
You better get this done for us. Right. And look how fucking hard your mom is working to make it happen.
00:30:41
Just a lot of fucking pressure. When? When? You have to win. When? Or what am I spending my money on?
00:30:46
Right. We're all sacrificing for you. Get out there. Now have fun with it. You're not smiling enough.
00:30:53
do your dance to want to be starting something. I mean, Jesus Christ, what we do to children in this country is so crazy.
00:31:01
Not me. Not me. Well, we did it to Nora a little bit. That's true. She got second place one time.
00:31:06
Wow. I know. It was really exciting. No, I mean, the pressure part, I don't think we're, thankfully.
00:31:12
That's the one benefit, usually, of not being the people that have all those things.
00:31:17
Right. Because you get to sidestep a lot of that stuff. I think my parents were like, just get passing grades.
00:31:22
And if you don't, that's okay, too. Yeah. Just go. Just go. And if you don't, just graduate high school.
00:31:28
And they did. And you did. You gave them everything they asked for and more. That's right.
00:31:33
No pressure. Okay, so even in real time, it's understood by Tanya's coaches and skating companions that her circumstances are extremely difficult and very different from the typical figure skater.
00:31:42
When she's 11, her friend witnesses LaVonna hitting Tanya repeatedly in the rink's bathroom with a hairbrush, just being abusive.
00:31:51
Yeah. The friend is shocked and horrified by this and tells the coach that she wants to report Tanya's mom to CPS.
00:31:58
It's a badass little 11-year-old. And the coach says that it would end Tanya's skating career forever if they reported her.
00:32:07
Right. Which is so sad because it's like maybe it would have made you have a better life even though skating isn't involved in it anymore.
00:32:16
You know what I mean? Yeah. Not that that always helps. And also how much of the skating was her choice at that point.
00:32:21
Right. A few years later, this friend actually winds up making like a little documentary about Tanya.
00:32:26
By then, Tanya's 15. And she very frankly talks about her difficult home life. Tanya's mother participates in the documentary and she's wearing a fur coat with a green parrot perched on her shoulder, just like in the movie.
00:32:39
Later, Tanya will also say that she was sexually abused as a teenager by several people in her life.
00:32:44
And it does seem like there could have been a lack of protection in the environment she grew up in.
00:32:49
And it's so hard because you can't believe everything this woman says. But there are definitely parts of it that are true and you have to believe.
00:33:01
Yeah. So, you know, she's an unreliable narrator. Yes, of course. But she's not lying about everything.
00:33:06
No. And also, if you have the kind of mom that'll beat you with a brush in a bathroom in front of people, then there isn't a lot of protection going on.
00:33:14
It's easy to say this is definitely not happening. Could it be worse at home? Of course.
00:33:19
Yeah. So the part of ice skating that most appeals to Tanya is the athleticism. And we should talk about what she looked like for people who don't know.
00:33:27
Like she was just so quintessentially 90s. She looked like she burned her eyeliner with a match to get it moving on her eye.
00:33:35
She had a very strong, she was like a redhead, but she had a very strong eye. She'd also bleach her hair like 90s blonde.
00:33:44
Yeah. And like the 90s was kind of still the 80s when it came to style. So think of that, like big poofy bangs.
00:33:50
Poofy, frizzy, big hair. Yeah, a little crimped and, you know. Yeah, but then she had, she looked like an Irish girl to me.
00:33:56
Yeah, she definitely looked like the photo that you posted of yourself in high school.
00:34:00
Like you would have been friends with her. Yes, absolutely. She would have been one of Karen's like smoking in the girls bathroom friends.
00:34:06
My mom would be like, I don't know if you should go to Tanya's this week. Exactly, exactly.
00:34:11
She definitely looks like she smelled like those menthol cigarettes we were talking about.
00:34:16
Totally. Right? Like a Kelly Bundy. Yeah. So she loves the athleticism of it. She can do the grace and the artistry, blah, blah, blah.
00:34:23
But that's not what comes naturally to her. What comes naturally, what she wants to do is land the most difficult tricks possible.
00:34:30
She kind of is a badass. She's not kind of. She's a badass in this way of like, if I'm going to do this, I want to be the fucking best at it.
00:34:37
And I want to do it in a way that no one else can. And I know everyone out there doesn't think I can do it.
00:34:43
So I'm going to fucking show them and then some. So no one can deny it. Such good revenge.
00:34:48
Oh, it's the best. Like, that's the best motivation is when someone's like, oh, you don't think I can do that?
00:34:51
Yeah. Let me go ahead and. I'm already brave enough to be able to ice skate, which I like.
00:34:57
I was watching hockey the other day and I'm just like, how are they doing this? I've ice skated maybe once or twice in my life and I.
00:35:04
It's truly witchcraft. And then she's like, I'm not scared, not only not to ice skate, but like of anything.
00:35:13
So here, I'll just do the thing that makes people cheer. Right. And so the trick she wants to land to prove herself to everyone takes a huge amount of strength and power.
00:35:25
And so as Tanya progresses on the ice skating circuit, this athleticism and power becomes her calling card.
00:35:31
So remember back then they used to always make fun of how big her thighs were. That was a big fucking joke, late night joke back then is how because ice skaters are so slim and long and lank.
00:35:42
But they also have to be so fucking strong to lift their bodies off of the fucking ice and twirl it like that takes so much strength.
00:35:50
Yeah. But also don't look like it. It's just this like horrible thing that we did.
00:35:54
We do to women Here the rules Now you also have to go backwards and in high heels type of stuff Exactly And so while she known for these like athletic moves and she like willing to try things that other ice skaters won Nancy becomes known for her grace and her spins and her elegant lines
00:36:13
So they're very different, but they are competitors directly. And it also seems like the judges are harder on Tanya because she doesn't quite fit that elegant mold of what a figure skater is supposed to be.
00:36:23
there's a lot of it's so fucked up like the amount of the stuff I've been doing researching
00:36:28
this makes me like angry there's a lot of wiggle room and subjectivity in scoring ice skating and
00:36:35
it's fair to say that some of that subjectivity comes into play when the judges look at Tanya
00:36:40
for instance she's criticized by a judge for her costume that she made herself because she can't
00:36:46
afford the five thousand dollar one time you know competition outfit it's that sort of thing but she
00:36:53
also does seem like a kind of rebel where she'll pick music she's like j.i. skated to wild thing
00:36:57
and just like rock and roll she'll do and like they don't fucking like that yeah and so the
00:37:02
scores are not technical completely they're also just completely subjective and i think there was
00:37:06
a time where we all believed it was objective and so fair and all about scoring or whatever and then
00:37:13
it's like and then if you tracked in any way the williams sisters coming into tennis right and the
00:37:18
way there was always a problem and it was always a thing. And just like, yeah, there was a lot of
00:37:23
people in place there that are making that are in charge of decision making and in charge of like
00:37:29
the culture. Totally. The agreed upon culture. Like the deck is stacked against you. Yeah. I mean,
00:37:35
it's fucked up. And so while Tanya has to scrap. So while Tanya has to scrap. Scray up.
00:37:40
Scray up. And so while Tanya has to scrap for everything she gets, people just seem to want to
00:37:46
give Nancy things. Thira Wang starts designing her costumes because she's such a fan.
00:37:53
She gets lucrative endorsement deals. I totally remember the Campbell's Soup commercial.
00:37:57
Do you? Oh, when she was like, she's actually on the ice? No, she's like sipping, closing her eyes and sipping some chicken noodle soup off the
00:38:05
ice because she's cold. You know, it's cold on the ice and she just closes her eyes.
00:38:09
I mean, she really did look like any girl that would be in Seventeen magazine. Totally.
00:38:14
So it was like she had it all kind of there anyway. Yeah. I just remember her high pony.
00:38:19
Yes. The curly hair, the high pony. She was really pretty. And I think that they also liked that she wasn't – it's such a contradiction.
00:38:27
They liked that she wasn't this wealthy, you know, wasp who was like a princess.
00:38:33
They liked that she was from lower – but not Tanya's. You know what I mean? You can do that, but you can't do it this way.
00:38:39
You can be from the lower classes, but you have to be pretty while you do it. Right, and humble.
00:38:44
You have to be thin. Thin, and you have to be humble about it. That's right. And not think that you are owed anything.
00:38:50
Yeah, it's just such a contradiction. She gets endorsements from Reebok. So when people tell this story, there's always this focus on Nancy being the beautiful ice princess
00:39:00
and Tanya being the more ugly duckling with bad costumes and bad hair. It does seem like they're compared a lot.
00:39:07
They're kind of each other's biggest competitors. But it doesn't seem like they have any animosity towards each other.
00:39:13
and Nancy's doing nothing to antagonize Tanya. There's like that story's overblown that they have like a feud because it's not even.
00:39:21
So when Tanya's 15 years old, she meets a 17-year-old mustachioed dude named Jeff Galluli.
00:39:29
He's played by Sebastian Stan. Yes, a classic. Classic. And they fall in love. It's her first ever boyfriend because all she does is skate.
00:39:38
Yes. You know? And get yelled at by her mother. Right. And she had dropped out of high school so she could skate.
00:39:43
Like, there's just nothing else in her life. So she meets this older guy and he has a car and he needs a job and she's, like, smitten completely by him immediately.
00:39:51
Also, when you're 15, sorry to interrupt, but when you're 15, doesn't it feel like that's when you fall in love the hardest of your whole life?
00:39:57
Oh, my God. Like, you kind of truly lose your mind. The hormones, the, like, everything that is, oh, God, no.
00:40:05
It's bad. It's so bad. It's, like, soul-crushing because you think it's the most important thing.
00:40:10
And it is the most important thing in the world at that moment. But it's the most important thing that you're doing with Jeff Galooly.
00:40:16
And no one can convince you otherwise. Right. Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. It's so hard to be a teenager.
00:40:22
It is. It's the worst. Oh, it's so bad. You could not pay me to be a fucking teenager.
00:40:25
Oh, my God, no. The two move in together when Tanya is just 17 years old. And the way she tells the story, she was pretty much just desperate to get out of her mom's house.
00:40:34
And this kind of seemed like the only way. Yeah. They get married in 1990 when Tanya is 20 years old.
00:40:39
And for a while, Jeff makes enough money to support them while Tanya keeps skating.
00:40:44
And they're hoping she'll get those endorsement deals. Jeff is abusive, though, allegedly, which Tanya will later discuss.
00:40:51
The relationship will always be rocky and on and off. And like basically everything in Tanya's life, pretty unstable.
00:40:58
The way Tanya describes it, Jeff was, quote, always saying the right things to get me back.
00:41:02
And I'd be stupid enough to go back and get beat up again. And they show this in I, Tanya.
00:41:07
And it's just it's just yeah, it's so dark. But also she's not stupid. This is her life.
00:41:13
Like this is the way if you if that's been the pattern in your life. Yeah. You continue that pattern.
00:41:19
Yeah. That's not a choice. She would say my mom loved me and she hit me. Yeah. He said he loved me and he hit me.
00:41:26
Like that's what you learned. Yeah. It's really sad. And there's not really any like she doesn't see any other options in her life.
00:41:32
It's really fucking sad. Okay. So, yeah, it does seem like she kind of internalizes this abuse and is kind of a victim blaming herself for it.
00:41:42
So it's not an excuse for her behavior, everything that happens to her, but it is context, which I think is important.
00:41:49
And so while all this is going on Nancy living the way she always has closely supported by her family stayed in the same hotel room as her parents at competitions She lives with them And she often describes her mother as her best friend which like what a fucking privilege to have that in your life Do you want to know one of my earliest jokes
00:42:06
Yeah. It was based on something some famous person had said, and we're like, my mother's my best friend.
00:42:11
And I said, mom, you're my best friend. And my mom went, well, you're not my best friend,
00:42:16
which literally she did. I could see that. Just like, God damn it. Yeah. It's like, she's meant it in like a tough love way.
00:42:24
Like, I'm your mother, not your friend. She meant it like no one's best friend should be their mother.
00:42:29
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00:45:31
Tanya's doing her best skating of her life. It's 1991, and Tanya becomes the first American woman
00:45:37
to land a triple axel in competition at the United States Championship, which is fucking huge.
00:45:44
The triple axel has been this white whale for female skaters, figure skaters, because it involves launching yourself
00:45:51
while facing forward, rotating three and a half times and then landing facing backwards.
00:45:57
And it takes a huge amount of strength to get the necessary height to stay up there that long.
00:46:02
I mean, it is like not for the faint of heart. People don't even try it because you will be hurt from doing it.
00:46:08
Eat ice as they say. Exactly. Just kidding. on it. They don't say that. Sounds right. Up until now, a Japanese skater named Midori Ito has been
00:46:18
the only woman in the world to execute it until Tanya. As you said that, I knew I've heard of
00:46:24
Midori Ito and I'm like, how much ice skating did I? Yeah. I guess it was just the Olympics.
00:46:30
They were big. Yeah. It was really big. And it was like in People Magazine and stuff. Exactly.
00:46:35
Like we were obsessed with the, I guess our children still obsessed with the Olympics.
00:46:39
I don't know. I don't either, but we fucking were. Let's call the child hotline and see.
00:46:44
Are there any children? Guys, what do you like? Roblox? This is also where her athleticism and her thighs and her muscle came into play.
00:46:53
Like you can't be a waif and pull off something that no one else can do in this sport.
00:46:59
You know what I mean? But they don't. They won't. People don't think that it's an athletic sport.
00:47:05
They forget that ice skating is athletic. and they want a pretty, waify. Everything's supposed to be a goddamn beauty contest.
00:47:13
When women are participating, all of that comes in and you have to suddenly talk about that all the time.
00:47:18
Right. Yeah, it's just a whole thing. It's because of her strength, so fuck you to everyone back then.
00:47:24
Stand by that. Fuck you to 1994. It's just so telling. It's like she was clearly groundbreaking.
00:47:30
You have to look different to do something different. Like, obviously you need the muscles to get up there.
00:47:36
Yeah. And it's like she could try to beat Nancy at her own game, but that wasn't her style.
00:47:41
And the reason she was one of the best in the world is because she had her own style and she was, you know, doing new, exciting things.
00:47:48
It's kind of almost like they shouldn't have been in competition with each other because they were both doing something completely different.
00:47:52
Yeah. But they were. So Tanya's triple axel wins her the United States championship and sends her to the 1992 Olympics.
00:48:00
In Albertville, France. Love it there. And Nancy also competes there. But between 1991 and 1992, Tanya seems to lose the ability to land that triple axel.
00:48:11
She falters in some competitions. And it seems like her life is just so chaotic.
00:48:16
I can't imagine she's getting a lot of sleep. You know, and that takes practice all day if you want.
00:48:22
Like for the Olympics, you don't have another life outside of that. I can't imagine.
00:48:25
Right. And also, I mean, I bet you the way people do it now where it's like you're eating certain things, you're training certain times.
00:48:32
All you're doing. She's smoking cigarettes. You know she's like she finds a Camaro somewhere to lean on and just smokes that cig.
00:48:39
Drinking beer, smoking cigarettes, hanging out with your fucking husband who like you have this tumultuous relationship with.
00:48:44
It's just not conducive to winning an Olympic fucking medal. Probably not. Right. I mean, I'm just podcasting and I'm fucking exhausted from like sleeping eight hours last night.
00:48:55
My muscles. I wrote it all weekend and my muscles are killing me. Same. It hurts to be this good at something.
00:49:04
And I have big thighs. And still I can't nail the triple axel. But your lines are amazing.
00:49:10
Your grace and lines and cheekbones are giving. It's the hand. There you go. This is why I did tap dance, not ballet.
00:49:18
I wanted to clop all over the place and make as much fucking noise as possible. That's right.
00:49:22
That's why. Let's pretend. They'll all pay. My mom had to make me stop tap dancing down the grocery store aisles.
00:49:29
Stop tap dancing. That's what you did too. Right? Or your mom would grab you and say.
00:49:36
Yeah, she would just grab me by the neck and be like, what do we need today? Don't wander off.
00:49:41
Which meant stop having temper tantrums everywhere you go. I would just, you'd always know where I was because I was clopping down the fucking.
00:49:49
Okay. We're creating so much work for the editors in this episode. We're showing them what it's like to be Tanya Harding and how chaotic life can be.
00:49:57
It's really hard and we understand it. Yeah, but you know what? Leave it all in.
00:50:01
We stand by our words. We're leaving it all in. Nothing's getting edited. Everyone go on vacation.
00:50:08
Okay, stop it. At the Olympics, Tanya tries and fails to land the jump, which has got to suck.
00:50:15
That's the other thing, too, about her skating. You can see it in her face when she wins and loses in a way I don't think you're supposed to show.
00:50:22
That's right. But in a really, like, cool, powerful, prideful way. Yes. That's awesome.
00:50:27
Like, she's cheering along with everyone. She's leaving it all on the field. Exactly.
00:50:31
Is that the one when she couldn't land it where she had the black velvet outfit on?
00:50:36
I think so. I feel like I watched one of these real time. And it was hard to watch.
00:50:42
Okay. Midori Ito lands hers. And in the end, Christy Yamaguchi still takes home the gold for America.
00:50:49
Northern California. Girl. Midori Ito takes silver for Japan and Nancy gets the bronze and Tanya's in fourth place.
00:50:57
This would potentially be where Tanya and Nancy's Olympic stories are over. They're 22 years old.
00:51:02
And the next time the Olympics roll around, they'd basically, they'd be 26. They'd basically aged out for Olympic figure skaters.
00:51:10
So that was it. Like fourth place. You're done. But, I mean, this is so fateful, fortuitous.
00:51:17
They get a once-in-a-lifetime break because prior to 1994, the Summer and Winter Olympics happened in the same year.
00:51:26
After the 1992 Games, the decision is made to stagger them. And it's decided that there will be another Winter Olympics in 1994 and then the Summer Olympics in 96.
00:51:37
So it can be every four years. So they just like double up on winter and they get to go back to the fucking Olympics.
00:51:44
That is so weird. Yeah. And I feel like I didn't know that as a detail of this story.
00:51:49
I didn't know that either. But I'm not as into ice skating as you are. I think Jewish people don't really.
00:51:57
We don't ice skate. Why would we? I don't think I'm into it as much as like I'm more of a.
00:52:02
It was such a pop culture situation. We had Dorothy Hamill, Peggy Fleming. Like we knew their names.
00:52:10
Yes. You know. Always. So this gives all the winter athletes the rare opportunity to compete in another set
00:52:15
of Olympic Games just two years later. So you thought you were done. You'd practiced for four years to get,
00:52:21
or you'd practiced so hard to get there. And now it's like, okay, guess what you're doing for the next two years?
00:52:25
Starting all over again. Wow. So cut to two years later. Let's just fucking go. Let's just get there.
00:52:32
Let's just go. 1994, Tanya and Nancy are back again, vying for spots on the next Olympic team.
00:52:38
So they still have to compete again to even be on the team. In order to qualify for the Olympics,
00:52:42
the skaters will need to first compete at the U.S. Championships. Do you want to know what it's called?
00:52:47
Yes. Officially. Legs U.S. Figure Skating Championships. Yes. With L apostrophe.
00:52:52
Legs. For those of you who are very young, that's the pantyhose brand. Pantyhose that used to come in plastic eggs.
00:52:58
That's right. Like Easter eggs, but pantyhose. It was spelled legs, but like legs.
00:53:03
Legs apostrophe E-G-G-S. And it had its own display where all of the eggs sat on individual little holders.
00:53:11
Yeah. Before there was like, you know, anime toys in Little Bubble, there was fucking pantyhose.
00:53:17
And we made our moms give us the fucking container when they were done with them.
00:53:20
That's right. Every time. Legs. Like all our Barbie shoes were in there. It's such a brilliant way to be like, do you want these pantyhose that all look like this?
00:53:27
Or do you want some in eggs? You want them in eggs? They're legs. Why don't we put more stuff in eggs?
00:53:32
We got to start. Why is that stopped? Kinder eggs. There's another one. Yes, exactly.
00:53:38
Good job. okay so in this during this time two years nancy has gotten additional endorsements
00:53:44
and tanya has pretty much gotten nothing in 1993 she divorces jeff but the way tanya tells it and
00:53:50
this is fucked up and it seems true u figure skating authorities urge her to get back together with him so that she can portray this image of stability and traditionalism Yeah They like you can be a divorced ice skater Go back to your abusive husband
00:54:06
Otherwise, you're not going to win the thing that you've been devoting your entire fucking life to.
00:54:11
That makes me think, do you think they flipped out when she married him in the first place because she was only 20?
00:54:15
Yeah, I'm sure. You've seen the videos. He just came with her to all the shows. He kind of had a little sketch with the mustache.
00:54:23
Yeah. Yeah. And it's certainly within the realm of possibility that they said that for such an image focus sport because only in 2004 were women allowed to compete in pants. Like the leggings, they couldn't wear leggings. They had to wear fucking legs.
00:54:40
Legs. A lot of them still won't wear them for fear of getting dinged by the judges because costume is part of your score. And so they just don't fucking like the color or the cut. It's a personal preference, not a fucking.
00:54:51
It's very dance moms coded. Like we're just always going to be haunted by these people that are behind a table, you know, waiting to put up a number.
00:55:00
And it's like those are the they in your mind where it's like they say you shouldn't do it that way.
00:55:05
It's like who fucking cares? It's dance moms and it's pageants, child pageants. Which is gross.
00:55:11
So gross. Yeah. Okay. We're just insulting the entire ice skating. We don't like anything.
00:55:18
Yeah. Also ice. Fuck ice. I meant for the drink, but... Can we leave fuck ice? Well, yeah, for sure.
00:55:26
Right? You like crushed or do you like cubes? Okay, stop it. That brings us back to your favorite day, January 6th.
00:55:33
Always. 1994. In the wake of the attack, Nancy had suffered. So they were aiming for her knee, but they missed.
00:55:41
And she suffered a severe bone bruise and the lower right thigh was what ended up getting hit.
00:55:48
But they did purposely go for her standing leg. So when she did twirls, she did it on the leg that they hit.
00:55:56
Because she could have kept going maybe if she didn't have to favor that leg. So they purposely used her.
00:56:02
Her weight-bearing leg. Thank you. And it was hit with a telescopic baton. Oh, yeah.
00:56:08
So like a police baton. Jesus. Like whap. I mean. Yeah, that's intense. So traumatizing.
00:56:14
Why? Why? And then her dad picks her up and carries her into the locker room. He had to take a fourth job.
00:56:22
Jesus Christ, this is so much worse than I even understood it to be. I know. But her knee is not broken, which is a miracle.
00:56:29
So she can't skate in the U.S. championships, which will determine who's going to go to the Olympics.
00:56:34
So without Nancy competing, Tanya places first. And a baby, Michelle Kwan, 13 at the time.
00:56:43
And I mean, she looks like a little baby. Yeah. She places second. So the 13. I know. Jesus. So the two of them are technically who we're supposed to go represent the U.S. at the Olympics. The committee decides to bump Michelle Kwan. They say to her, look, you're 13. You have other chances. Nancy doesn't. How do you feel about us? Like switching you guys out? Nancy couldn't compete. And Michelle fucking Kwan said, OK, like.
00:57:15
How graceful is that of her and like fucking cool? Holy shit. Yeah. As a 13-year-old, you're like, no, fuck you.
00:57:25
Get the judges over here. Do you know how hard this was? Fuck you. Fuck you. I am in seventh grade.
00:57:30
You're cool. Fuck you. Oh, my God. What a generous thing she did. Totally. I mean, even if she didn't want to, it's like amazing.
00:57:38
Yeah. And like that had just happened to Nancy. And we cannot tell you how big of a story this was at the time.
00:57:43
This was the biggest story in the U.S. and maybe in the world for a while. I'm angry about it.
00:57:50
I think it was. So they decided to send Nancy anyway, even though she didn't compete.
00:57:55
And so this competition has come to an end. Tanya and Nancy are going to the Olympics.
00:57:58
But the frenzy to figure out who attacked Nancy heats up. And I mean, I can't remember if we all knew it was.
00:58:05
We knew. We knew. We knew. Who didn't know? I think that, well, they just had to get the proof.
00:58:11
Yeah. But I feel like what's unfair and really would have been unfair if she wasn't guilty, Tanya just had that look of a girl that like you don't want to cross her and then she finds you in the movie theater parking lot.
00:58:24
You know, so then it was clearly all those adults were just acting like we know what happened.
00:58:28
We can't prove it. We're going to continue as if that's what's going on. So. So shortly after the attack, the COIN TV, K-O-I-N in Portland, we know them well, the Portland station receives an anonymous letter claiming that Jeff, Tanya's husband, Tanya and a team of Tanya's bodyguards were responsible for Nancy's injury.
00:58:49
One of the producers at the station knows Tanya personally and calls her up about it.
00:58:54
And she says, you can look at the letter, but you have to do an interview with me.
00:58:58
Like, she fucking. Did she write that letter? No. Oh, no. She's like, you can see it. You can come to the station and see it, but only if you do an interview with me. It's like kind of like, got it. All right, girl. So Tanya goes on air on that station to refute the letter. And it's so fucking creepy. Jeff is sitting directly behind the interviewer. And in the interview, you can see him staring at her. And you can she looks afraid. Yeah. And you can kind of see her like, you know, look at him a couple of times to get the right answer. And she claims it is only after this interview that she begins to get the inkling that Jeff was really behind the point.
00:59:31
plot. And so this is the big question is what did Tanya know and when? And it's debated. There's no
00:59:37
total proof either way. I think we generally assume she had something to do with it from
00:59:45
the beginning, allegedly. Yes. I mean, that's kind of the logical. Yeah. But then the idea of that
00:59:51
your abusive husband would do this and you didn know he was going to do it is so awful You can see how that would happen too Like that what so hard about the argument is like you could see him doing it without wanting to burden you
01:00:05
And, like, he's just going to do this thing that he thinks she might want. Or he's like, he's the man and the provider and he's like, yeah, I took care of it for you.
01:00:12
Tanya got a death threat before the Nancy Kerrigan thing happened. Oh. And so that's what they were going to do initially is just give Nancy a death threat and hope that maybe she doesn't compete.
01:00:22
But then it became this thing. So she might have nothing to do with it. I, you know, allegedly, allegedly.
01:00:29
OK, so the station hands over the letter to the FBI and it's quickly traced back to a friend of the father of one of Jeff's friends, a man named Sean Eckhart.
01:00:38
And so this guy is played by the incredible Paul Walter Hauser. Do you know who that is?
01:00:44
Yeah, I think so. He was the one in Blackbird who played the serial killer. He's just such an incredible actor.
01:00:49
He was so perfect in I, Tonya. So he had actually worked as Tanya's bodyguard and had given interviews in the wake of the attack.
01:00:57
He's just a complete idiot. He also privately tells lots of acquaintances that he was involved in it.
01:01:02
He's bragging about it. He thinks he's like this, you know. Like a superhero kind of guy or like a badass guy.
01:01:08
He's just not. Once the FBI gets to Sean, the whole plot is revealed fairly quickly.
01:01:12
The FBI agents who interviewed him said, quote, when Sean realized he was facing some fairly serious penalties, he folded like a cheap accordion.
01:01:19
Sean signs a statement claiming that four men were involved in the plot and that the idea seemed to come from Jeff, the husband.
01:01:27
Jeff asked Sean to hire a hit team of two other men to carry out the attack. And those two men are named Derek Smith and Shane Stant.
01:01:35
And so basically they travel to Detroit where Nancy is competing to be in the Olympics and where they hit her.
01:01:41
And all of this travel is charged to credit cards under their own names. I mean, when confronted with all the evidence, both men confess to the attack and plead guilty fairly quickly.
01:01:52
But over time, the men involved in the plot start changing their stories, saying that Tanya was involved and that she was in charge of the plot.
01:01:58
So she kind of turns on Jeff, her now ex-husband. And when he finds out, he turns on her, too, and they all do.
01:02:05
Yeah. The only real evidence they find against Tanya is some, they find a scrap of paper with information in her handwriting, allegedly, about the rink and phone numbers for the rink where Nancy was practicing.
01:02:20
Oh. So it just looked really bad. Yeah, that isn't good. Yeah. And so while all this is going on, Tanya is still preparing for the Olympics.
01:02:27
In the meantime, no stress. Push on through. Yeah. Which are scheduled to begin in, what's it called?
01:02:33
Lillehammer. Thank you. Lily Hammer, Lily Hammer, Norway. And Tanya still practices at the rink.
01:02:39
So Tanya's practicing at this rink in an open mall. And now she's the biggest villain in the U.S.
01:02:45
And so as she's practicing and stressing out of the Olympics, she's being watched by every news station in the fucking galaxy.
01:02:54
And just like waiting for her to fall and fail and something wrong to happen so they can report about it.
01:02:59
It's just crazy. It's open to spectators and to the press. It's a madhouse. Even Diane Sawyer shows up ringside and just hangs out at the edge of the rink asking her questions.
01:03:09
Diane Sawyer went to the Clackamas Mall? Yes. That's hilarious. She's like one of the most respected journalists of our time.
01:03:15
She had to get out there. So this media frenzy follows her fucking everywhere over the course of six weeks leading up to the Olympics.
01:03:22
Under questioning, Tanya confesses to learning about the plot after the fact. That's the only thing she ever admits to.
01:03:28
And not alerting authorities as soon as she knew. And that's the only thing she's guilty of.
01:03:31
She said she was afraid of what Jeff would do if she came forward, which is reasonable given Jeff's track record of abuse.
01:03:37
But people to this day doubt whether or not she knew about the plot in advance and whether she helped advance it.
01:03:43
But while all this investigation is going on, Tanya hasn't been charged with anything and the Olympics are approaching.
01:03:49
And with Tanya being a U.S. champion, the Olympic committee has no solid reason to remove her from the team.
01:03:56
Like, they can't. They're hoping she resigns because at this point she admitted she knew something about the plot after the fact.
01:04:04
Tanya then threatens to sue the Olympic Committee. I'll fucking sue you for $10 million.
01:04:11
Sue all you motherfuckers. Sue all you motherfuckers. I'm competing. Yeah. Meanwhile, Nancy's healing up and she'll be able to compete.
01:04:19
In the six weeks between the attack and the games, she has to spend four weeks in physical therapy
01:04:24
and then only has two weeks to practice her routine. Actually, in January 1994, this story was so big,
01:04:31
it was on the covers of Sports Illustrated, Newsweek, and Time magazine. Yeah. It was huge.
01:04:36
The Winter Olympics in Lillehammer, Norway, begin in February of 1994. And at the Olympics, the whole U.S. team has to practice at the same time.
01:04:47
They all get the same ice time, which means Tanya and Nancy will be on the ice together.
01:04:51
It's like, are they going to have a cat fight? and scratch it out. It's just so dumb.
01:04:56
A massive media frenzy happens and everyone wants to see what will happen. In the end,
01:05:01
it's all anticlimactic. They don't get into a fight. They don't even talk to each other.
01:05:06
Then Nancy has a pretty good outlook on the whole thing and she kind of just ignores
01:05:09
any of the questions. She just won't talk about it. She doesn't want that to be the focus.
01:05:14
She's pretty graceful about the whole thing. You love her. I love her, don't I? Oh no, I love Nancy.
01:05:21
I'm teen Tanya all the way. I mean, Tanya's a fucking badass. Like, but I'm scared.
01:05:27
Yeah. But I don't know. There's something about that thing of like, she's just a little engine that nobody thought could.
01:05:35
And so she's like, I will beat you all into submission. 100%. And then it's like, oh, but you're not pretty enough.
01:05:42
And it's like, it doesn't matter. I'm going to do it anyway. She was like, if I do it exactly the way you want me to, I'm still going to fail.
01:05:49
And so I'm doing it my fucking way and failing on my own terms. Yep. And then still fucking winning and still showing you how good I am I mean she so impressive Also being fourth in like an Olympic sport you might as I mean no one can get close to that
01:06:08
No. That's the, it's, there's, people really love to watch TV, myself included, and then just be like, that's easy.
01:06:15
It's not that big of a deal. It's like, most people can't just go once around. No.
01:06:20
And part of ice skating is making it look easy. They don't want you to have like strain on your face or big thighs, big muscular thighs.
01:06:28
They want you to make it look like you're just flying. Because you're just a little lady.
01:06:31
And Tanya's like, well, fuck you. Tanya's like, I'm going to do things other people can't do.
01:06:35
Right. And I wear a lot of black eyeliner while I do it. The thing is that she didn't know she was an autumn.
01:06:40
And if we had just gotten some brown eyeliner in there, they would have loved her to death.
01:06:46
She could have been a little redhead. Yeah. I think I love them both. Okay. So once the competition gets underway, Nancy skates a great short program while Tanya's performance is rocky.
01:06:56
I mean, no stress or anything. Yeah, exactly. When it comes for the long program, when Tanya's name is called, it takes her a long time to get on the ice because her shoelace broke.
01:07:06
Oh, yeah. I remember that. Yeah. She has very specific shoes because of the jumps.
01:07:10
And so they couldn't find the laces that were long enough for her. She's freaking out.
01:07:14
She gets on the ice very last minute. So stress. Like, can you imagine? I mean. She says, like, it's not going to hold me.
01:07:21
Like, she knows her shoes are not going to hold her for her jumps. And she also has, like, a misaligned skate.
01:07:28
It's just a mess. And so she fails her first jump, and she begins crying and takes her.
01:07:33
Remember, this is the one where she, yeah. I watched all of it. Yeah. I saw it. And also, it's that thing where when I was watching it, and I think there's no way the judges weren't saying this or, like, the commentators weren't kind of alluding to it.
01:07:45
But it's like, how do you with that right behind you go? And so what the second her lace was broken, it was like, to me, I could feel I felt like it was the pressure was building, building, building like crazy.
01:07:59
And the like people staring at her. And then it was like it wasn't the shoelace.
01:08:04
You just couldn't. You want to doubt. There's no coming back from that. And yeah.
01:08:08
And then that everyone just loved the photo of her face looking like they ate it up how devastated she looked.
01:08:14
And it's like, you know, everyone was like, you got what you deserve. Like, it's just this whole storyline.
01:08:18
Everyone loves that kind of like, teach her a lesson. Totally. You know what I mean?
01:08:22
God forbid she, yeah. Lay in the bed that you made type of thing. Totally. So that's kind of what happened.
01:08:27
No one had any sympathy for her. She restarts the program with the new lace and the routine goes well, but there's no triple
01:08:35
axle, nothing, nothing great. And Nancy skates after Tanya and again, skates a great program.
01:08:41
And it's looking like Nancy might be poised for the gold that everyone is rooting for her because she's America's princess and she got back on the ice and it's all that.
01:08:49
She's so brave. Yes. She's a Disney princess. It's braver that Tanya got on the ice.
01:08:55
Because aside from physical. Yeah. I think psychologically. Yeah. If we're going to do a brave measurement, Tanya wins that one.
01:09:02
She refused to apologize to anyone. Yeah. And, you know, she had chutzpah. Maybe a little too much chutzpah.
01:09:12
Yeah. But then comes 16-year-old Oksana Bayul from Ukraine. And sensing that she's probably neck and neck with Nancy, she adds in an unplanned triple toe loop, whatever the fuck that is, at the end of her program.
01:09:26
And it ultimately lands her the gold. And Nancy gets the silver. Tanya comes in eighth place after all of that.
01:09:34
So I think they were hoping that they'd be like neck and neck. No. no. And it's a really disappointing outcome, of course, for the American sportscasting perspective
01:09:42
and an unsatisfying end to the biggest sports story of the year. But Oksana did skate really
01:09:48
well. But a lot of people say that the skating community was actually just sick of America's
01:09:53
antics. So even though Nancy should have gotten gold and a lot of people argue that,
01:09:57
they were just like done with America's little shits. So gave her silver. So Nancy's double punished?
01:10:05
Nancy's double punished. Yeah. Because it's something she had no control over. Yeah.
01:10:08
Well, but also it just like, and also wrap it up. That is so like life where it's just like you can't hang out in the public eye that long.
01:10:18
Right. Without. They're going to get fucking sick of you no matter how much they like you.
01:10:23
They're going to come at you. What are we doing? It's 10 fucking years of this shit.
01:10:25
Oh, we've had that time and again. We have, haven't we? I mean, Jesus Christ. We're the Tonya Hardings and Nancy Kerrigan of podcasting.
01:10:34
Okay. I think we're the double Tonya Hardings of podcasting. We're the Tonya Hardings of podcasting.
01:10:39
Fine. So in March of 1994, right after the games and Tonya makes a plea deal pleading guilty
01:10:45
conspiracy to hinder prosecution. She's stripped of her 1994 Olympic eighth place title.
01:10:52
She's like, take it. You can have it. And she's banned from participating in figure skating in any official capacity for the rest of her life.
01:11:01
Jesus. It sucks. It's a devastating blow. That's like what her whole life has been leading up to.
01:11:06
But also, it means she won't be able to coach or make any money in the skating circuit, you know, in Disney on ice or whatever.
01:11:12
She cannot even fucking do it. Yeah, that blows. So her entire life has been dedicated to this thing and she can't make a penny off of it.
01:11:20
It's all she knows. She didn't even graduate high school. There's some vengeful skating.
01:11:26
It's a little fucked up. Whatever. The skating authority is tough. Yeah. Like, let her get on the B-level circuit, you know?
01:11:31
Let her coach. How does that hurt you? They got to, like, make a point. No attacking other people's knees from now on.
01:11:37
Fine. I mean, bare enough. In the 2010s, after renewed attention to the case, and then also after the I'm Tanya movie
01:11:45
comes out, which was so fucking good. I watched it over the weekend. Like, I didn't think I'd like it.
01:11:49
It's so good. It's so fucking good. It's so funny. She finds more work on reality TV and does better.
01:11:57
And in 2018, she comes in third. on Dancing with the Stars. Did she really? Third is amazing.
01:12:05
Amazing for someone who's, well, she's a dancer, I guess, but not in that sense.
01:12:08
And probably not for a while. Yeah. But also Dancing with the Stars is hard. Oh, my God.
01:12:13
Jesus. Guess what? You're going to be on it next. Would you do it if they asked you?
01:12:18
Never. You wouldn't? Fuck no. Why? Because they're just in your business all the time.
01:12:23
It's like a reality show of like, this is also your life. Okay. And so then it's like you practicing.
01:12:28
It's just too much. No behind the scenes. It's too much of like any person's, like, you know, that's real training.
01:12:36
All right. I got to call our agent and tell him you said no. Nancy has remained deeply involved in the skating community and has commentated for the Olympics.
01:12:45
She lives in Massachusetts and she has a husband and kids. She's very involved in the Skating Club of Boston, the group that lost many young figure skaters in last year's plane crash in Washington, D.C.
01:12:57
Oh, no. And there's video of her giving a press conference like weeping. It's so sad.
01:13:01
So now do you feel fucking bad? Yeah. Okay. Even worse. Here's something better.
01:13:06
She's actually also appeared on Dancing with the Stars several seasons before Tanya.
01:13:10
And she came in sixth. Oh, so I think we know who the better athlete is after all these years.
01:13:15
They really, the form that it needs to be figured out on Dancing with the Stars.
01:13:20
Not the Olympics. Look at us sitting on our butts critiquing. armchair quarterbacking that's right as we love to do throughout the 90s american figure skating
01:13:32
becomes a huge deal with tv specials and national tours this is when it really like blows up into mainstream and figure skaters are catapulted to a much higher status of fame and recognition and fucking that those lucrative deals than they were previously And a lot of people think that
01:13:51
Nancy, the whole Nancy versus Tanya spectacle is part of the reason for this. Yeah, that makes sense.
01:13:56
So it launches a generation of figure skating fans who to this day continue to debate what Tanya knew
01:14:02
and when she knew it. And that is the story of the 1994 assault of Nancy Kerrigan.
01:14:09
What an incredible Christmas tale. So good for the holidays. It's that thing, like, is that a Christmas movie?
01:14:15
Is this a Christmas story? Yes. Yes, it is. It is ice. It's ice. It's everywhere.
01:14:20
But also it's like hopes and dreams and then dreams deferred and what that does to you.
01:14:26
A Christmas miracle. It's almost like they did it, the Olympic committee did that on purpose.
01:14:32
of like nobody likes the way that ended up with Kerrigan and Harding. So let's get him back out here.
01:14:38
Yeah. Yeah. Because that's wild. Yeah. Amazing story. Thank you. What a great thing for everyone's vacation.
01:14:45
Yeah. I didn't even think of doing it because it's just like such a story from our youth.
01:14:48
Like I just am like, that's not your crime or like that's just what happened. And it's like, oh, this is a fucking story.
01:14:54
That's when someone, they pull crime into their perfect little world of athleticism and, you know,
01:15:00
coaching and like that's not allowed there. Yeah. When Allie and Molly pitched it to me, I was like, oh, I could do that.
01:15:08
So good. So thanks, you guys. Yeah, that was great. That was really good. Thank you.
01:15:11
Good job to you, too. Thank you so much. You were a great spectator and commentator.
01:15:16
You know, I was there for a lot of it. Don't remember it accurately, but love chatting.
01:15:21
Sure It my favorite especially Christmas especially Sorry I keep saying Christmas to you especially at the holiday times Thank you Your holiday is also important To who
01:15:31
To me. Well, listeners, have a lovely holiday, whatever you're celebrating or even not celebrating.
01:15:40
That's right. Treat yourself to something nice. You deserve it. Treat yourself to a telescoping weapon of your choice this holiday season.
01:15:48
stay sexy and don't get murdered goodbye Elvis do you want a cookie? this has been an exactly right production
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our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes our editor is Aristotle Acevedo
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this episode was mixed by Liana Squalachi our researchers are Mary McGlachin and Allie Elkin
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Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com. And follow the show on Instagram at myfavoritemurder.
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Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Or you can watch us on YouTube. Search for My Favorite Murder, then like and subscribe.
01:16:30
Goodbye. Vacation planning should feel like a breeze, not a deep dive into countless travel sites searching for the best deal.
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With Cheap Caribbean's Budget Beach Finder, you can search every destination and every date all in one search.
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You'll save time and money with the Budget Beach Finder. Say goodbye to endless scrolling and tab hopping and hello to Budget Beach Bliss at your fingertips.
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Go to CheapCaribbean.com to try out the Budget Beach Finder and see just how stress-free vacation planning should be.
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Goodbye. If audiobooks are your thing or if you been meaning to listen to more of them you should check out a podcast called Earsay the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club hosted by Cal Penn
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Each episode spotlights standout audiobooks on Audible across all kinds of genres,
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sci-fi, comedy, romance, thrillers, and more, with Cal talking to guests who help break down what makes each story worth listening to.
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It's a fun, easy way to discover your next great audiobook. Check out Earsay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Goodbye. You know that fantasy where you run into your ex while looking impossibly cute and wildly unbothered?
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Hill House makes the perfect dress for that moment. Or if you're just running errands.
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Hill House Home is the brand behind the viral nap dress, known for its signature smocking, ultra flattering fit,
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and comfort that makes it a favorite for just about everyone. Celebrities like Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo, Anne Hathaway,
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and Mindy Kaling have all been spotted in Hill House. These dresses are the definition of versatile.
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Perfect for running errands in the morning and stylish enough for dinner or a party that night.
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And it's not all they carry. They started with bedding back in 2016. And now you'll find bathrobes, pajamas, children's clothes, and maternity, all with the cutest prints.
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And it's so true, the hardest time picking out one nap dress because the prints are so dreamy and beautiful.
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But now that I have it, I'm going to wear it all day, every day. I'm going to throw on my leather jacket at night and look like a total badass.
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Catboy boots or cute heels, whatever it is, this nap dress can make it look classy.
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You look like that classy lady you see at the airport. Hill House makes fun fashion that makes you feel good.
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Get 15% off your first order of $100 or more at hillhousehome.com with code MURDER15.
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That's MURDER15 for 15% off at hillhousehome.com. Goodbye.