00:00:00
This is exactly right. An average annual single-line payment of AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Wireless plan as of January 2026.
00:00:35
For full offer details, visit BoostMobile.com. Hello! It's Karen in Georgia here to tell you about our brand new limited series podcast, Two-Face, John of God, produced by Exactly Right Media and Adonde Media.
00:00:47
The series tells the story of a Brazilian spiritual healer who claimed his so-called miraculous surgeries could cure the incurable, drawing desperate people from around the world.
00:00:57
Hosted by award-winning journalist Martina Castro, Two-Faced John of God investigates how belief, power, and silence allowed this story to go on for decades and the brave survivors who fought to bring it to light.
00:01:09
And we're proud to announce that Two-Faced John of God will be released in both English and Spanish language versions starting Wednesday, February 4th, with new episodes every Wednesday.
00:01:18
You can follow Two-Faced John of God now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:24
And for our Spanish-speaking listeners, Dos Caras Juan de Dios is available on Espanol in your favorite podcast apps.
00:01:32
Adios! Hello! And welcome to My Favorite Murder. That's Georgia Hartstark. That's Karen Kilgareth.
00:01:55
We like podcasting, do you? Can you hear how much we like it in our voices? These are pro-podcasting voices.
00:02:04
Oh, how do we do this when the world is such a mess? How do I, you know? It is just the current.
00:02:13
Also, it's like the world is a mess. Everything I see on TikTok is horrifying, but I don't want to look away.
00:02:19
I know. I can't look. It's driving me. I'm going crazy. I was just laying in bed earlier, just fucking being like, everything's a mess.
00:02:26
Now go put on makeup and fucking contour your cheekbones and podcast. But here's the thing.
00:02:31
Because we got to play in Minnesota before, in Minneapolis, watching what those people are doing and watching how those people are taking it back and being like, these are just thugs and we're going to fucking treat them like thugs.
00:02:42
It's so inspiring. And it's so like they're just not, they're not letting up. And they're not letting fear hold them down.
00:02:51
No, they're. And it's just very empowering for everybody else to be seen. I hope they know that.
00:02:57
And it's just insanity. Fuck ice. What are we doing? What is fucking happening? It's clearly fuck ice.
00:03:05
What is fucking happening? It's the fucking Gestapo. And it's the Gestapo, and they're attacking people who are intrinsic to this nation in every way.
00:03:16
And not just like people always talk about the work. It's like these are people who were here first.
00:03:21
Yeah. Fucking how about that? Yeah. Here first. And then basically built up like they were talking about there was some story out of Minneapolis.
00:03:30
ICE agents eating dinner in a Mexican restaurant and then arresting the workers.
00:03:34
Oh, my God. Where it's like, well, then there is no line then. No, there is none.
00:03:38
There's no line. These people are berserking and they have to be treated as such.
00:03:42
It's fucking terrifying. And I'm a white woman. I'm not saying that I'm terrified for my.
00:03:48
It's terrifying that this is happening to everyone, to other people, and I'm fucking so horrified by it.
00:03:54
Also, if you hate people who are trying to make their families' lives better by coming to this country, like, what's wrong with you?
00:04:04
Where's your empathy? They're not— What's wrong with you? What's wrong with you?
00:04:08
I'm so disgusted. Also, I saw a thing where there's all this trickery in those ICE contracts.
00:04:15
So they think they're getting paid all this money. But if they quit, they have to pay it back.
00:04:20
And there's all these stipulations in there where it's like, of course, you're getting—this is a contract with Donald Trump.
00:04:26
This man does not pay people. This is not a person who has ever historically— Kept his word.
00:04:31
This is a fucking liar and a monster and a megalomaniac. And a criminal. Dictator, pedophile.
00:04:38
Like, what? Oh, God. Anyways, this is our first episode on Netflix. Guys! Imagine.
00:04:43
Are we allowed? So, are we allowed— This is unprecedented fucking times. No, I'm glad you said it.
00:04:50
And I feel like we've been saying it all the way along. But we haven't, yeah. I just want to say it before because my fucking story is so trivial that I'm going to tell you today.
00:05:00
And so fucking unimportant in the scheme of things that I feel. Did you see the Golden Globes?
00:05:06
Like no one said a word. Did you see Mark Ruffalo on the red carpet? He said some shit.
00:05:10
And Wanda Sykes. Yeah. Wanda, of course. Fuck. I know. We can't not say anything.
00:05:15
The fact that it's escalating. Exactly. Exactly. Well, listen, here's what I am very inspired by.
00:05:23
Because as I am addicted to TikTok, I can see what the children are doing and saying.
00:05:27
And high schools are walking out and joining those protests in Minneapolis, like, or joining the people who are like right on the front line where those.
00:05:36
Risking their lives. Yes. And also. For other people, you know. And harassing, I saw a woman who was just harassing people in San Diego who went in to submit for the job.
00:05:46
And she was just like, it was like a comedy roast. She was just saying awful shit to them as they were walking away.
00:05:53
And it is like the most satisfying because she like what are you doing What kind of person is like yeah that what I want to do Someone who shouldn have any authority What if we change the subject to something so insane and different from it
00:06:08
that it'll just feel like we're going to break the bone here. I've got it. And be topical.
00:06:13
Heated rivalry. I've got it. We are on the pulse of the fucking TikTok generation.
00:06:20
We're on the pulse of the distraction generation where horrors rise up in front of us on a daily basis.
00:06:26
And then you have to go on with your day. And you go like, yes, yes. Where do we send our money?
00:06:30
What do we do? How do we help? And then also get this off me. Please rinse my eyes.
00:06:35
This is horrifying. Heated rivalry. I love it. It's so sexy. And oh my God, it's everything.
00:06:43
And it took me a minute to like get into the first episode. It took me like three times to watch it
00:06:48
because I kept getting these like funny memes about it that made me want to keep watching it.
00:06:52
I'm so glad I stuck with it. That sounds kind of like a boy's excuse of like, I had to rewatch that sex scene over and over because I just, I don't know, I wasn't into it.
00:07:00
Yeah. Well, I didn't know I was into that, honestly. I know my friends are. My girlfriends are like, that's, they're fucking into that.
00:07:06
And I didn't know I was until I watched this fucking show. And then I'm like, well.
00:07:11
Kind of undeniable. Yeah. Where's my porn? I'm just so to watch it kind of unfold on social media.
00:07:19
And it's my friend, Jacob Tierney, who I've talked about on this podcast all the time.
00:07:23
And it's like his baby. What a success. There was a guy that was filming like the final episode.
00:07:31
And did I say this already? He was standing on Santa Monica and all four bars were playing it.
00:07:35
And the bars were packed and there was people like spilling outside. And he just was like going like this.
00:07:39
In West Hollywood. Yep. I was just like, oh, my. That's so beautiful. Look at what he made.
00:07:45
It's just so incredible. And he's so deserving. He's so smart and talented and so hilarious.
00:07:50
And then what's his name? Connor? Connor Story? Connor Story. God damn it. He's not even Russian.
00:07:58
No. I didn't know these things when I started watching. I didn't know who it was.
00:08:01
And now I know everything about him. Yeah. What a fucking cutie pie. Please come do a podcast at Exactly Right Media
00:08:09
so we can just have you in the office every day. Can you imagine what that guy's life is?
00:08:12
like right now where just everyone girls, boys, whoever are just like I want to sleep with you
00:08:18
right now. And that ass is fucking Mothman level. Mothman statue level. Yep. Cakes.
00:08:26
Oh my god. Cakes. I'm blushing and I'm objectifying someone and I feel Georgia you're a perv.
00:08:31
I feel bad about it. No it's really fun. I think it's the kind of you know as things get
00:08:37
nightmarish then there's just like a little bit of opiates. It's a distraction. It's visual opiates
00:08:42
to get away. Definitely. But then emotional, like actually really deep. The like love scene, not them, but this other love scene is so fucking beautiful and lovely.
00:08:53
I have to be honest right now. I know. I haven't seen it. I know. That's why I'm excited for you.
00:08:58
I feel like the biggest liar. But because I'm like sitting here like, and it's great.
00:09:01
Yeah. But I was at my dad's house. Oh, yeah. Good luck watching it with your dad.
00:09:05
I'm like, do you want to try this? Oh, my God. Can you imagine? No. My dad who gets up and slams the newspaper down when like a sex scene starts, like that's the only way he's ever reacted my entire life.
00:09:17
Where if you're watching a movie, he's like, good night. Oh, and I'm just like, I didn't fucking make this movie.
00:09:24
But that and then, you know, it's just like I want to sit down and binge the entire thing.
00:09:29
Yeah, you have to. But I have to do it because I'm going to see a release. Yeah, you got to.
00:09:32
And my faking of like, yeah. It's great. Yeah. I mean, you know it is. He's the smartest person and the funniest person, but also he started as a child actor when he was like seven years old.
00:09:41
Did he write Letterkenny? Letterkenny. Okay. And Shorzy. Yes. Yeah. He wrote and directed Letterkenny and directed Shorzy and I think co-wrote it.
00:09:52
But then I think he did Rivalry is All His. Yeah, his name is like on and I'm like, I know that name.
00:09:57
Created by. He read the, he's like, I don't know, there's these smutty hockey books that I think I'm going to try to option.
00:10:03
And that was like, of course, two years ago or something like that. I know. Incredible.
00:10:08
It's very, very exciting. Yes. We contain multitudes here. The justification of the juxtaposition of my favorite murder on this podcast is heated.
00:10:19
This is the world everyone's in right now. Yeah. Just like, here's the TV I love.
00:10:24
Here's the worst thing. Tears streaming down their face. It's the end of the world.
00:10:27
Here's some cute thing. Yeah. Here's a cat meme. Can I just carve out one second to make a joke?
00:10:33
Because I know anytime I do this, people like yell at me and then compliment me.
00:10:37
Are you talking about our beautiful fucking article in The Hollywood Reporter written by journalist Mikey O'Connell?
00:10:43
It was so cool. Well, it's amazing if a journalist that's talking to us also listens because then they're kind of like, I remember when a thing happened.
00:10:50
Insider Baseball. What's your version of it? We're like, yes, finally. Yeah, yeah.
00:10:55
It was very nice. My joke that I want to say without anybody telling me anything is that in that first picture, it looks like I'm doing an impression of Peter Falk.
00:11:03
I don't understand why I can't just take a picture and smile. It is. I've been traumatized.
00:11:09
It's like. You're not. And it's like. See, it's only you. I've been traumatized by show business.
00:11:15
All I saw. Can I tell you what I saw? And I was like these beautiful photos with great lighting and great makeup.
00:11:20
And I was like, my hands look old. Like we just do that. Yeah, you're right. We just go to that immediately.
00:11:26
I know. It's like you have to. It's like, what is the next problem I'm going to solve?
00:11:30
Yeah. But I don't know. why it's like, it's like I'm holding an invisible cigar in my mouth.
00:11:35
I don't, I didn't see it. Listen. Listen, look and listen at how complicated life can be.
00:11:40
Look at how superficial we absolutely are in the face of everything else that we are
00:11:46
also holding. And how lucky we are. And you guys have been so incredible in our 10-year anniversary week.
00:11:51
Thank you for all the love and the beautiful comments and just so much So nice So much love So nice I also didn mean to be so sneaky sliding that topic in but it feels like when it rains it pours And for us we have been so lucky
00:12:05
Oh, my God. From, like, tour on, things have just been so lovely. And I feel, like, humbled and grateful that they keep showing up for us.
00:12:14
Yeah, we know how fucking lucky we are. It's my new thing. Maybe you should smoke a cigar.
00:12:22
Maybe that's your new look. I think so. I like it on a hot. Yeah. Yeah, I'm getting that kind of Russian masseuse vibe going.
00:12:29
So I think a cigar is really the only option. All right. Well, should we do some Exactly Right Media?
00:12:35
Should we do some business? Because, listen, we still have to run this company. We absolutely do.
00:12:40
We have a podcast network called Exactly Right Media. And here are some business highlights.
00:12:45
Over on Dear Movies, I Love You, Millie and Casey are feeling the heat as they revisit the 1998 classic How Stella Got Her Groove Back.
00:12:52
Yes. Plus, screenwriter Chris Thomas Devlin joins them to talk about his area of expertise.
00:12:58
And then over on I Said No Gifts, Bridger does his best not to make it a thing when
00:13:02
Cornwells forces a gift on him anyway. Brings him a gift. He said no gifts. They brought him a gift.
00:13:08
They insist. They get into Tony Braxton's family using hinge dates as tour guides and whether rabbits
00:13:14
are an underrated protein source. No. You've got to listen. And the trailer's out now for our newest podcast, Two-Faced, John of God.
00:13:23
And it's our first dual language podcast. So it will be available, of course, in English and now in Spanish.
00:13:30
The Spanish feed is called Dos Caras Juan de Dios. And it premieres February 4th.
00:13:35
Follow everywhere you get your podcast. You're so proud of this. You've done so much work on this.
00:13:40
It's so exciting. This has been in the works for so long. It's very exciting. It has.
00:13:44
And Adande Media, the company that we're doing it with, Martina Castro is the journalist.
00:13:49
That's her company. She's the loveliest person. And she's going to be on the podcast so we can talk to her about it in person, obviously.
00:13:55
But as a company, they've just been the coolest. They're so good at what they do and they're so fun and collaborative.
00:14:03
I can't wait for the world to hear it. Yeah, it's great. And then, as we said, My Favorite Murder is officially heading to Netflix.
00:14:09
So on January 26th, six back catalog episodes will be up on the My Favorite Murder Netflix channel.
00:14:16
Check it out. Followed by the first brand new full episode on January 28th. 28th and the first new mini-sode. I'm drawing a lot of dates at everyone. The first new mini-sode
00:14:27
is on January 30th. They're all streaming exclusively on Netflix. Exclusively on Netflix, where they now show a video podcast. Here's what I love about this.
00:14:37
Every other episode, it's just going to go like our normal thing. So it's a full episode and then
00:14:41
mini-sodes, full episode, mini-sodes. I love the idea that people get to, like a really broad group
00:14:47
of people could get to try out the little taster of mini-sodes, I think people are going to really
00:14:53
like mini-sodes. And I think that means we're going to get a lot more great emails sent in
00:14:56
of mini-sodes. Like, it's just going to ramp up the, like, stories after stories.
00:15:01
Yeah, we're going to need a mail room. Okay, over in Merch Corner, Nicole is here to remind us that
00:15:06
our 2025 tour merch is now available in the Exactly Right store. Go grab your tour hats and
00:15:12
totes and all the apparel from our live shows. Yeah. At where? Over on exactlyrightstore.com.
00:15:19
Quantities are limited. So please rush and push other people out of the way. Oh, and we have a quick merch show off thing.
00:15:27
You have these fucking adorable pins. Everybody loves these pins. Oh, wait. And they are, you know what they are?
00:15:33
What are they? They are magnets. How do they even work? And then you get a cute little case to put your joints in too.
00:15:40
Magnets. Okay, magnets. Wait. What are we doing? We've got magnets. Magnets. Magnets.
00:15:45
A fuck politeness koozie here. That's so cute. My girly pink. Oh, yeah. I always get like, it's either black or pink.
00:15:55
And each of us get like, because Karen wants all black stuff. I want all pink stuff.
00:15:59
Gray is the like common denominator one, I think. Right? Especially with a nice red flag.
00:16:04
That's right. So the MFM flag, red flag looks amazing. And I have this pink fuck politeness.
00:16:10
Definitely getting one for Vince. Because he is comfortable in his masculinity and will wear pink.
00:16:15
Oh, yeah. He's not a fucking toxic male. He's a real clothes horse, you know. He fucking is.
00:16:21
He has real style. Yeah. He does. Him and his... Wife? Penguin show. You want to get in on that?
00:16:28
Yeah. Anyway. Okay. Merch. Business is over. Capitalism will save us all. That's the other thing.
00:16:34
It's like, can I stop consuming in 2026? I'm just not... I don't need any more of it.
00:16:38
I don't need any more organizational fucking things and fucking plastic bullshit and fucking things that are going to fix my life.
00:16:46
I got to tell you, I'm very much on that track with you. I was going to buy this little two-level shelf to put coffee mugs on.
00:16:54
And I was like, what am I? They can just go on the surface. I don't need this. Stop it.
00:17:00
I have to, like, pair it all the way back to lip balms and lip liners. Oh, yeah.
00:17:04
Because it's like, it's just a little something new every once in a while. But like the mass consumption is not working for me.
00:17:10
Things aren't going to fix your life. Cats and dogs are. Yeah, that's really true.
00:17:15
Do that. Take them outside. Foster them. So you don't have to commit because we know you are a commitment phobe.
00:17:21
That's totally fine. Cut to me with the 10 dogs in a room. Like what? Adoption fail on all of them.
00:17:29
Uh-oh. Okay, stop it. Okay, this is the— All right, here we go. I'm thinking of people watching this on Netflix for the first time
00:17:36
not knowing what this podcast is and just being so fucking confused. Click away now while you can.
00:17:40
This is pretty much what it's like. Actually, but here's also what it's like. On episode 402, entitled Staunch Women,
00:17:49
I covered the story of civil rights pioneer Claudette Colvin. She was basically the first Rosa Parks She did it when she was 15 years old She would not get up when some white person demanded her seat on an Alabama bus And she died on January 13th of natural causes
00:18:07
She was 86 years old. And her namesake foundation released this statement saying, quote,
00:18:13
It is with profound sadness that the Claudette Colvin Foundation and family announced the passing of Claudette Colvin, a beloved mother, grandmother, and civil rights pioneer.
00:18:21
she leaves behind a legacy of courage that helped change the course of American history.
00:18:27
Incredible. So sad. What a legacy. Yeah, and someone to read about and study. Listen to this episode and learn how to resist.
00:18:39
I'm very excited about this story because it is truly a classic true crime case,
00:18:44
and it's also a classic forensic files. So you and I probably have seen it recently,
00:18:49
because when we were on the road, there were some classic forensic files that I was watching.
00:18:54
It's crazy to me that people bring their computers and watch movies in hotel rooms.
00:18:58
Like, you have forensic files on 24-7. What are you doing? From 9 p.m. on. Like, it's a lot.
00:19:04
Order those chicken strips and a Caesar salad and fucking... Cookies. Cookies. Go.
00:19:10
Okay. This story begins in Kent County, Delaware, which is in the Dover metro area.
00:19:15
We rarely talk about Delaware. No, we don't really do that, do we? And we've never gone.
00:19:19
I dated someone from there. You're still mad about it? Scrapple. That's all I know about it.
00:19:24
Scrapple. That was his name? Delaware. Hey, Delaware. Okay. It's near the town of Harrington.
00:19:34
Okay. So this is the night of June 23rd, 1991. Okay. You're 11. Oh, my God. I am.
00:19:40
It's around midnight. A 41-year-old man named Charles Holden pulls up to his trailer after finishing his shift
00:19:46
at a factory job, and he sees a man lurking nearby. He drives to a payphone. So this is back in the time of payphones.
00:19:53
Sure. Before cell phones. So weird. Who? I know. So he calls 911. He tells the dispatcher, there's a guy lurking.
00:20:00
Just lurking? Lurking outside my house. Oh, okay. Yeah, exactly. And then he asks for a police escort home.
00:20:06
So he's really freaked out. When the dispatcher asks Charles if he's aware of anyone else being on the property,
00:20:12
he tells them his 70-year-old mother, Dorothy Donovan, lives in the farmhouse that his trailer is next to.
00:20:18
So it's like his family property. Charles is certain this person that he saw outside was not his mother.
00:20:24
He specifically tells the dispatcher, quote, I want to get someone there as soon as I can because I don't want him breaking into my mother's.
00:20:32
So he's scared. Okay. The police are dispatched to the property, and what they find inside the farmhouse is an absolute nightmare.
00:20:40
Dorothy Donovan has been murdered, and as Detective Captain Greg Nolt will later remember, quote,
00:20:46
it was a very bloody and brutal crime scene. Blood everywhere, blood spatters throughout the bedroom.
00:20:52
Jesus. From that night when the investigation begins, this case will sprawl out over several years
00:20:57
and take some unbelievable twists and turns as police try to piece together what happened to this woman
00:21:02
on that night in early summer in Harrington, Delaware. This is the story of the hunt for Dorothy Donovan's killer.
00:21:08
Wow. And the main source used for the story today is the 2008 episode of Forensic Files entitled Stranger in the Night, along with several articles that ran in the Delaware-based News Journal newspaper.
00:21:20
And the rest of the sources are in our show notes. Okay, so when investigators inspect Dorothy's farmhouse that night, they find the backdoor window has been shattered.
00:21:29
So the presumption is the murderer broke in by reaching through that broken glass and unlocking the door from the inside.
00:21:36
and one of the reasons they think that is because there's blood smeared around the scene
00:21:41
and forensic analysts conclude that that blood does not belong to Dorothy. Investigators also find several fingerprints and a partial palm print that are not hers.
00:21:53
Police run through potential motives. They don't think it's a botched robbery because nothing's missing from the house.
00:21:59
Dorothy's purse is like right there. there's the possibility that it's a sexually motivated attack since Dorothy's body was
00:22:06
discovered in her bedroom, positioned in a way that leads investigators to consider this possibility.
00:22:12
But really, the sheer brutality of this crime, with Dorothy having been stabbed more than two
00:22:19
dozen times, all about her face and chest is indicative of overkill, which suggests that this
00:22:26
is a very personal and a very angry attack. An FBI profiler quoted by the News Journal
00:22:30
newspaper goes so far as to say, quote, some stranger did not break into the house, murder
00:22:36
her and leave. This is someone who knows the victim, knows her well and knows that they can come here
00:22:41
and that she will be the only victim in the house. Wow. End quote. OK. We have to start saying end quote because we're on Netflix.
00:22:48
Oh, shit. Are we journalists now? Yeah. At least we have to say end quote. No, I don't like it.
00:22:54
Really? No. You want to keep it loose and open? Yeah, you can tell by the tone of voice.
00:22:58
That's really true. I don't like end quote. Write in if you think this whole thing has been a long quote since 2016.
00:23:04
Because I never say end quote. I don't either. I don't want to. Okay. The end. The end.
00:23:09
So hearing this by an FBI profiler is very confusing to Dorothy's family because they're adamant this woman has no enemies.
00:23:17
She lived a quiet life in her farmhouse after losing her husband a few years before.
00:23:22
And she's a beloved mom of three and a grandmother to seven. She does not have enemies.
00:23:27
So the motive's unclear, but one person who is being looked at very closely is Dorothy's son, Charles, who made the 911 call.
00:23:35
It's said that when Charles first sees his mother's body, he says, quote, I can't believe he killed her.
00:23:41
I can't believe he killed her. Yeah. So the investigators, it piques their interest because it's very specific.
00:23:48
When they ask Charles who he is, he tells them he actually recognized the man he saw lurking on the property that night.
00:23:54
He says he doesn't actually know him by name, but he claims that they'd had a chance in
00:24:00
counter earlier the same evening. So he explains that after he clocked out from his 4 to 11 p.m.
00:24:06
shift at the factory job that day, he decides to stop at Hardee's to pick up some dinner.
00:24:12
Now, let's just take a break for a second so I can explain that Hardee's is the Midwest
00:24:17
Carl's Jr. You know how recently I ate the Midwest Carl's Jr.? How recently? Two nights ago. What?
00:24:23
Did you travel? I'm depressed. Oh. No, I have depression. I see. You know. I mean, I'm sorry.
00:24:33
Fast food gets it done for me. Carl's Jr. is on another level for me. Like, it's a different.
00:24:38
What do you get? A fucking Western bacon cheeseburger since I was a child. The skinny little girl pounding a fucking Western bacon cheeseburger and onion rings like nobody's business.
00:24:47
So you get onion rings on the side even though there's onion rings on that burger.
00:24:52
What kind of rebel are you? a depressed one a depressed one with depression it works though like first of all what a great
00:25:00
idea onion rings and barbecue sauce amazing those milkshakes oh no have you no i can't do you dare
00:25:08
no get in there it could cure your depression i'm the one who's like won't even have a soda
00:25:12
you know what i mean like i'm just here for the food like i don't want an unhealthy soda
00:25:17
did i tell you the story of the time i was in the wendy's drive-thru around vermont and the guy was
00:25:22
I ordered my thing and I was like, whatever, cheeseburger and large fries and a medium diet.
00:25:29
He was like, why don't you just get the regular? And I literally let it hang for like five seconds.
00:25:34
I was like, are you fucking kidding me, dude? And he was like, oh, sorry. Yep. Your total is $9.
00:25:38
You didn't go for the? Sure. Look. Look at me right now, though. What am I fucking talking about?
00:25:43
I'm literally drinking a fucking full. Here's the thing. Whether it's this, this is filled with beet juice.
00:25:47
Go fuck yourself. We all get to do whatever we want. Yeah. I have a fucking full fat Coca-Cola right now.
00:25:53
Got to. And I'm enjoying it. Whatever you want. Whatever you want to get you through.
00:25:58
Full permission to our listenership. Get yourself through. Yeah. Fight, fight, fight.
00:26:04
Go, go, go. And we're back. So he stops at Hardee's, the Midwest Carl's Jr., to get his food.
00:26:10
Goes inside. But then when he comes back out, he's crossing the parking lot. And he is intercepted by a hitchhiker.
00:26:17
That's so weird. Should I always pronounce it that way? Hitchhiker. Charles describes him as a black man in his 30s with oversized glasses, standing around 5'9", wearing a plaid shirt and brown dress pants.
00:26:30
He claims that this man asked him for a ride to Georgetown, Delaware, which is like 25 miles away.
00:26:35
And Charles told him he wasn't going to drive all that way, but that he would take him down the road a few miles in the direction he was going if that would help him.
00:26:43
And according to Charles, the hitchhiker took him up on this offer. When Charles is about half a mile from his own home, he tells the hitchhiker it's time for him to get out of the truck.
00:26:54
But instead of getting out, Charles says this man's mood abruptly changes. He becomes irate and starts attacking Charles, demanding that he drive him all the way to Georgetown.
00:27:04
Charles tells investigators he jumped out of the truck. He starts running away from the hitchhiker, who's now chasing him with a screwdriver that he took off the floor of Charles' truck.
00:27:13
and now he's threatening to kill Charles if he doesn't keep driving him all the way to Georgetown
00:27:19
so Charles says he tells the guy okay fine I will do it I'll drive you there he calms him down a
00:27:25
little bit they both start walking back to the truck and then Charles does the classic move where
00:27:29
he just takes off running jumps into the truck and takes off and it works so he basically leaves this
00:27:35
like violent hitchhiker standing in the middle of the street with a screwdriver in his hand
00:27:41
So Charles says he's terrified that this man is going to follow the direction of the truck on foot since it's only like a half a mile away from where he lives.
00:27:49
And that if he sees Charles' truck on the property, he's going to be like, I'm going to go there.
00:27:53
That's where he is. So Charles drives around for 20 minutes before he loops back and heads to the property.
00:27:59
But when he pulls into the driveway, he sees the hitchhiker lurking. And that's when he drives away, sees a payphone, and makes the call to 911.
00:28:06
one. So the detectives hear this story out from Charles, but once he's done, they waste no time
00:28:13
telling him that they don't believe a single word of it. It's so many coincidences. It's very
00:28:18
rambling and random. And one of the officers actually tells Charles, quote, only an idiot
00:28:24
would believe that story, unquote. And it does sound unlikely, especially when you consider this
00:28:30
hitchhiker would have walked half a mile to Charles's house, passing several other homes
00:28:35
along the way, breaking in and brutally murdering a defenseless woman sleeping inside.
00:28:40
But the truck isn't there. He wouldn't know it was the man who he got into this fight with his mother.
00:28:45
And then it's like, what is that all supposed to be a coincidence? And then also like this fight he got into would explain why there's like scratches and
00:28:52
stuff like that. How convenient. Yeah. And of course, there have been tens of thousands of crimes reported in this country where white
00:29:01
people blame black people, a black man for the crime. Yeah. And they're lying. So they basically say, we don't buy it.
00:29:09
Charles holds firm. He's adamant he's telling the truth. When investigators remain suspicious, they tell Charles, take a polygraph test.
00:29:17
And Charles says no. So that's not really surprising in this day and age because at this point, as we've talked about a lot, we know that polygraphs aren't very reliable.
00:29:27
But this is 1991. Yeah. Where it's kind of suspicious if you don't. If you say no, it's suspicious.
00:29:32
Everybody's like, this is a lock, just like blood spatter. What's the problem? So from here, police have to continue building the case.
00:29:40
They create a composite sketch of Charles' purported hitchhiker based on his description.
00:29:44
They put it out to the public. And actually, if you look through old newspaper articles about Dorothy Donovan's murder, you can see this composite sketch.
00:29:52
It doesn seem to have generated many leads Meanwhile the medical examiner report comes back with more details about Dorothy murder it based on the physical evidence that being processed at the crime scene but these findings only bring more questions For example the medical examiner is unable to find
00:30:09
any evidence confirming sexual assault, so the sexual angle is gotten rid of as a motive,
00:30:16
and actually they start to think that maybe her body was like posed in that slightly suggestive
00:30:22
way to throw police off and lead them down that path. Then, and it's still early in the investigation,
00:30:29
police get bombshell information. They learn that not long before Dorothy's death, she's taken out
00:30:34
an accidental death insurance policy. And the beneficiary is her son, Charles. So then the
00:30:42
detectives find out Charles is in debt. Who isn't? Although we don't know how much, but it does point
00:30:48
to financial motivation. The police continue circling Charles as a suspect, but the tests
00:30:53
show that his blood is not a match for the blood that was left at the scene. And the palm prints
00:30:58
are clearly not a match. The police consider the theory now that Charles could have hired somebody
00:31:04
else to commit the murder and then just go in for a cut of that life insurance payout. But the police
00:31:10
don't have enough to arrest him, so they try to find out if there's anything about his hitchhiker
00:31:15
story that is real. If this person actually exists, he could either be the murderer or he
00:31:21
could be Charles's accomplice. So maybe the hitchhiker story is Charles' way of covering
00:31:25
for himself if anyone saw him and that man together that night. Oh, yeah. Okay. So detectives take that composite sketch of the man. They track down several people who
00:31:35
were at Hardee's the night of Dorothy's murder, and they are able to confirm a huge piece of
00:31:40
the story, which is that there was, in fact, a man in the parking lot that night approaching
00:31:45
people and asking for a ride. And he looks like the guy in the composite sketch. Investigators
00:31:50
compile photos of men with criminal records who resemble this hitchhiker down to the oversized
00:31:55
glasses. And every person in this photo lineup is wearing glasses. So when Charles is shown the
00:32:01
pictures, he picks out the one that he believes was the hitchhiker. Police also show these photos
00:32:06
to other witnesses, and three of them identify that same man that Charles does. He's a 33-year-old
00:32:12
black man living in Harrington, miles from the murder scene. He has a criminal record,
00:32:16
but he has never committed a violent crime. He's been convicted of forgery and petty theft,
00:32:21
but now given the multiple positive identifications, police think they might have their man.
00:32:26
But when the officers show up to this man's house to question him, they immediately know that he
00:32:31
couldn't be Dorothy's killer because it's only a week after the murder, this man opens the door,
00:32:36
and he has a full beard. Huh. So not a single witness mentioned anything about this hitchhiker
00:32:42
having a beard. It's improbable this man could have grown one in a matter of days.
00:32:46
So he is off the list. Okay. And then when they run his prints, the man's palm prints
00:32:51
are not a match. On top of all of that, he has an alibi that completely checks out.
00:32:56
So few for that guy not actually, you know, being wrongfully arrested and committed to jail.
00:33:03
They've done it for less. Yeah. You know? For real. So that's now a dead end. And without modern day DNA technology or forensic tools, these leads dry up. The investigation peters out. Months pass and then years. Investigators still believe that Charles has something to do with his mother's death.
00:33:21
Can you imagine, like, the rest of his family just having to sit there not sure?
00:33:26
You're psychic because that is what I'm about to tell you about. Charles maintains his innocence, but the suspicion grows in his family.
00:33:34
And his own sisters struggle to believe the story. Shit. Charles becomes more isolated as time passes.
00:33:41
And then around 2006, investigators working the case get access to CODIS for the first time.
00:33:47
We've talked about it on the show a lot. it's the National DNA Database that they were developing since 1991, but a lot of people didn't
00:33:55
have access to it in the beginning. So this was the first time investigators around the country
00:34:00
had access. And it's helped solve countless crimes and cold cases over the years.
00:34:07
So more than 10 years after Dorothy Donovan is murdered, the mystery blood sample from her
00:34:12
farmhouse is inputted into CODIS, and investigators finally get a match. It belongs to a man with a
00:34:18
lengthy criminal record who served time in Maryland around the late 1990s for murder.
00:34:23
In the years since Dorothy's death, this man has been convicted on drug and robbery charges,
00:34:27
and he served a stint in prison for that. He'd since been released, and it takes police more
00:34:32
than two months to track him down. And when they do, they track him down to a home 40 miles away
00:34:38
from Dorothy Donovan's home. The man's named Gilbert Cannon. He's in his late 30s. He looks
00:34:43
a lot like the man in the composite sketch. But when police bring him in for questioning,
00:34:48
he denies any involvement. Investigators start to confront him with the piles of evidence against
00:34:53
him, including DNA and print matches, and he buckles. He tells investigators exactly what
00:34:59
happened that night in June of 1991. And what he tells them is basically exactly what Charles said.
00:35:06
Yes. Oh, how frustrating. So horrible. I told you exactly what happened, like, beat by beat and you...
00:35:13
And you went... And it sounds fucking made up. It does. It sounds entirely made up.
00:35:18
And luckily, Gilbert Cannon did corroborate it because he could have just done that thing
00:35:23
where he's like deny, deny, and go to jail, which a lot of them do. Right. He was in the Hardee's parking lot that night.
00:35:29
He was high on cocaine. He was looking to score more, presumably in Georgetown, and that's why he needed a ride there.
00:35:36
He corroborates the entire rest of the story. we've heard Charles offers to drive him a few miles up the road. Gilbert attacks Charles with
00:35:43
the screwdriver. They fight in the street. Charles offers him the full ride, and then he runs back to
00:35:48
his truck and gets away Then Gilbert fills in the rest of the gaps He says he kept walking down that road and then finally he decided he needed to find somewhere to sleep He tells investigators he passed several houses but they all had their lights on so he did not try them
00:36:05
Don't tell me it was just a fucking coincidence. Yep. He arrived at Dorothy's house by sheer coincidence.
00:36:11
The lights weren't on. It was just as Charles had feared when he saw the man lurking and drove away.
00:36:17
He killed him. Gilbert broke in through the back door. Between the sound of the window being smashed and the creaky farmhouse floors, Dorothy
00:36:24
Dorothy wakes up. Gilbert is in a drug frenzy, truly, and just attacks her and stabs her with
00:36:30
the screwdriver and murders her brutally and horribly. Gilbert was fleeing the scene when
00:36:36
Charles arrived home. It doesn't seem like Gilbert understands that the same man who'd given him a
00:36:43
ride and that he'd gotten a fight with was now the one pulling in this driveway. He tells police
00:36:48
he acted alone and that he picked the home at random. And when police tell him that it was that
00:36:53
same man's mother that he murdered, he is shocked. Dorothy's daughter and one of Charles' sisters,
00:36:59
Diana, tells Forensic Files that Gilbert being shocked was, quote, such a relief to us.
00:37:04
That showed us that Charles was not connected to him. Yeah, because he could have lied and said, yeah, he hired me, so he gets a lighter sentence.
00:37:12
Yeah. Like. I was just a dupe. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And then the guilt you would feel that you did not believe in your own brother,
00:37:21
even though it would be very hard to believe. Like, all these things that are happening, it's evidence.
00:37:27
And it's like, the part about the death insurance is terrible. Yeah, the randomness of it is what's so unbelievable.
00:37:35
Yes. But it's true. After confessing, Gilbert's arrested, and the following year, 2007,
00:37:40
he pleads guilty to Dorothy's murder. When he does, it will have been 16 years since Dorothy Donovan was murdered.
00:37:47
Gilbert's sentenced to life in prison without parole, and Dorothy's surviving family members are left to pick up the pieces
00:37:53
after years of overwhelming grief, losing their mom, along with the family tension over the doubt around Charles' involvement.
00:38:01
Finally, Charles Holden is exonerated, but nothing can undo the nightmare of being implicated in your own mother's death for 16 years.
00:38:09
Little has been documented about how Charles felt during all of this. Understandably, he had no interest in talking to the press,
00:38:16
But a 2007 News Journal piece briefly touches on his experience, quoting his sister Brenda Alexander, who says,
00:38:23
At the time of Cannon's arrest, Charles's sisters acknowledged that they were hard-pressed to understand
00:38:29
why their brother would give a ride to a stranger, in this case, one with an extensive Delaware criminal history dating to 1981.
00:38:37
His generosity caused a riff among the siblings, but according to Alexander, an attempt at reconciliation began Tuesday.
00:38:44
We're working on it, she said. We were all in court and we all went to eat afterwards.
00:38:49
We're working on it, but it's going to take time. End quote. That's the incredibly tragic story of the murder of Dorothy Donovan and the exoneration of her son, Charles Holden.
00:38:59
Wow. I haven't seen that. Forensic files. Yeah. That's, I didn't know that story.
00:39:03
That's. It's like the thing people fear about being out in the country that, like, as far as I know, growing up out in the country never happens.
00:39:11
And then all of a sudden, this insane. Unbelievable. Horrible story. Yeah. Almost. Yeah. That's wow.
00:39:19
Yeah. Great job. Well, great job. Thank you. Very classic true crime. This isn't that.
00:39:32
This is completely different than that. This is the origin of Hardee's. Oh, I'd love to hear that.
00:39:40
No, it's worse. This is the story of the Gwyneth Paltrow ski collision trial. Oh, my God. What a joy. Yeah. Come on. What a great idea. It's not my idea. Molly and Allie get full credit for it. You lunatics. I'm so excited. I was like, OK, I guess. It's such a good idea because here's the thing. I think there was something else big happening in the news at the same time where I really there has always been for 10 years. But I felt like I couldn't focus on that the way I wanted to.
00:40:13
Yeah, you just heard little blips about it, not like a whole thing about it, but you're about to hear a whole fucking thing about it.
00:40:17
Bring it to me, please. Okay. So it's late January 2019, and we're in Park City, Utah.
00:40:24
You love to summer there, right? Oh, I summer all the time in the snow. Why would I summer in the snow?
00:40:30
Who does that? Rich people. Yeah. A 72-year-old retired optometrist named Terry Sanderson, or more likely one of his lawyers, files a lawsuit in Utah's civil court that immediately generates headlines around the world.
00:40:44
His lawsuit is against Deer Valley, a nearby ski resort known for its wealthy guests and impeccably groomed runs.
00:40:53
It's also against the person he collided with, a person we all know from Shakespeare in Love and Sliding Doors and, of course, Goop.
00:41:02
This is the story of the Gwyneth Paltriskie collision trial. Amazing. But also it has the feeling already.
00:41:10
And I think it's like this guy hasn't done well in the public eye for this. It's you saying that he sued Deer Valley and her.
00:41:17
It's like I sue everyone. You can see it like him breaking down in the parking lot almost.
00:41:21
I mean it's kind of a sad story. Okay. But I feel like it is. But you tell me. The main source of the story is reporting from NBC.
00:41:29
And the rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. Okay, so we're back to the day it all happened.
00:41:35
It's February 26, 2016, and we're at Deer Valley on a green run, which I think is, you know, easy.
00:41:42
For babies? Yeah. Called Bandana. And this is one of the easiest runs on the mountain.
00:41:46
It a gentle wide slope that connects the summit to the Empire Canyon Lodge where you would find me if I were forced to be there I mean I telling you here our cancellation I fucking hate skiing so much It was an activity that my single dad took us to do because he didn know what else to do with us when we were kids
00:42:07
Like in Big Bear? Yeah. And that's the last time I did it, and I have no interest in it at all.
00:42:11
He took us a few times. It's just so out of control. And I get that that's the appeal.
00:42:16
It's very like surfer and that energy of like, let's ride it and let's see what happens.
00:42:20
I hate let's see what happens energy for things like that, for like physical things.
00:42:25
It was fun. I enjoyed it as a kid, as an adult. I have no interest. Did I tell you the story of with my ex, we went skiing one time because we had a big
00:42:33
skiing family and I was like, I don't want to do this. He was like, come on, my dad will teach you.
00:42:38
He's a really good teacher. We literally spent like seven minutes on the kid's slope and then he took me up to a thing
00:42:43
and I just like started going down and my legs locked up and I was like, I can't go
00:42:48
anymore. I had to get taken down on the ski patrols, like laying down like that, staring up at the sky.
00:42:56
It was so embarrassing and so hilarious. So Gwyneth is 44 at the time and is on the mountain with her two kids, Apple, who's 12, and Moses, who's 10.
00:43:06
Oh, Moses, like my cat. And she's with her boyfriend, producer Brad Falchek, who they're now married, and a ski instructor named Eric Christensen.
00:43:16
The kids have been getting a lesson from Eric, and Gwyneth and Brad had been skiing with them.
00:43:22
So it's kind of a family lesson together. What happens next is up for debate. According to Gwyneth, she's gently skiing down the slope.
00:43:31
Did she use the word gently immediately? Right. Well, so it's like an easy run. So it's not like you have to be pro and you'd be going faster and like that.
00:43:39
Okay. So she's skiing down the slope, and then she sees two skis appear between her skis.
00:43:46
And then she feels someone press up behind her and kind of grunt. And then the two of them both crashed to the ground.
00:43:53
So almost like someone came up behind her and plowed into her. Gwyneth and the man both freeze for a minute.
00:43:59
And then she yells at the guy who crashed into her. She later says she yelled at him because she thought in the moment he had done it on purpose.
00:44:06
She's a famous person. And I'm sure she gets harangued in public all the time. So she kind of thought it was one of those experiences.
00:44:13
What did she yell at him? Goop? goop goop and that grunt the grunting thing was weird yeah you know no that's very jarring yeah
00:44:25
but she says she realizes in the moment that it was an accident and apologizes for yelling
00:44:30
so her kids instructor this guy eric helps the guy to his feet and they have a brief exchange
00:44:36
the guy and him and then everyone skis away kind of like this just thing happened and everyone is
00:44:41
a little like, what the fuck was that? Eric, the teacher, files an incident with Deer Valley
00:44:46
describing the events this way, although it sounds like he didn't see the moment of impact himself
00:44:52
and was just going mostly by what Gwyneth's description was. But he writes that the man
00:44:57
had said that Gwyneth, quote, just appeared in front of him, end quote. So he's saying he didn't
00:45:03
appear behind her. She just appeared in front of him. Unfortunately, I would just as a person who
00:45:09
has gotten rear-ended like three different cars in my life, it doesn't work that way.
00:45:14
Right. If you're behind, that's your responsibility. Yeah, because also, like, I'm just picturing a slope.
00:45:21
There's no out of the blue. No. Unless, I mean, like— They're going really fast.
00:45:25
They're going really fast. But, yeah, you have full breadth of vision. Right. It's not like she can't drop down in front of you.
00:45:33
Right. It's just a weird construct. Right. But like, okay, maybe you didn't see her in front of you, but it doesn't, I don't think she could have appeared in front of you.
00:45:43
Breathalyzer. That's actually, I don't think that happened because everyone just left.
00:45:48
So everyone goes on with their lives for three years or so it seems. At some point, the man, the man is a 75-year-old.
00:45:57
His name is Terry Sanderson, and he hires a lawyer. The lawyer goes back and forth with Gwyneth's lawyers, which you know have to be like the best in the fucking biz.
00:46:07
Just the power. The most power. Radiating off those men. The secrets they know. And women.
00:46:12
And women. The secrets that they can never tell. Oh, God. Gwyneth's lawyers are like, fuck you.
00:46:18
No way. I'm paraphrasing. And so Terry files in early 2019. The filing includes his version of the events, which are that he was skiing down the slope when Gwyneth, skiing out of control, slammed into him from behind, knocking him unconscious and breaking four of his ribs.
00:46:35
So very different story. Now, the central question in this lawsuit will lie in one key difference between Terry and Gwyneth's stories.
00:46:43
Who was the uphill skier? Every ski resort has a posted code of rules that skiers are supposed to follow.
00:46:49
And among these rules is that downhill skiers have the right of way and uphill skiers who fucking uphill skis.
00:46:56
Just for like the workout or maybe like to get to the top of the. I think they mean it's, you know, like downstage and upstage in the theater.
00:47:02
They mean like the skier behind. Uphill. Got it. Great job. Thanks so much. So uphill is me.
00:47:07
And then there's a cross country skiers coming across like this. Right. Everybody's like clonking up this hill.
00:47:13
Yes. OK. Now that makes total sense. So uphill skiers, downhill skiers, downhill people, the people in front of you have the right of way.
00:47:21
Because you simply can't control what's happening behind you when you cannot see it.
00:47:24
Truly. Gwyneth and Terry each claim to be the downhill skier. So we do know that after the collision, let's call it, the Deer Valley Ski Patrol does bring Terry down the mountain on a stretcher.
00:47:37
We're not sure if he loses consciousness at any point, but being brought down on a stretcher is common for anyone who has any kind of injury on the mountain that can't get down.
00:47:45
on his own. Yeah, I know. You do know. I know firsthand. And it's very shaming. Oh, I would not.
00:47:53
And it takes forever. It feels like four years. So slow. And people kind of ski by you
00:47:57
and look down at you. You just have to like let me know. Go and let God. It's horrible.
00:48:02
And get a hot toddy. So Terry goes to urgent care later that day, and it sounds like he really did fracture some ribs.
00:48:08
This really probably was a very painful fall. And while he's there, a friend who he'd been skiing with, a man named Craig Ramone,
00:48:17
first tells him that the person he collided with was Gwyneth Paltrow. So he didn't even know when it happened that it was Gwyneth Paltrow.
00:48:22
Yeah. Got all those ski equipment things. The weird yellow goggles. Right. Shortly after this, Terry sends out an email to his entire family with the subject line that says, I'm famous. It details the crash.
00:48:35
Make that a phone call. Don't put it in writing. The exact contents of the email don't seem to be part of the public record.
00:48:41
But Terry goes back and forth with one of his daughters about whether or not someone on the trail might have gotten GoPro footage of the crash, but no footage ever materializes.
00:48:49
And then three years pass before he eventually files the suit. Initially, he sues for $3 million.
00:48:57
Yeah. Naming both Gwyneth and Deer Valley in the lawsuit. And there's a flurry of reports about this lawsuit, at first only giving Terry's side of the story and claiming that eyewitness accounts from the slopes refute the incident report on file at Deer Valley.
00:49:13
People love to hate on Gwyneth Paltrow. She has been the subject of so much hatred basically since day one.
00:49:20
Yeah, she's somehow an easy target. And so the idea that she ran into someone and was just a messy, rich lady.
00:49:28
Goop, goop, goop and skate away. And she now, you know, hurt this old man and everything.
00:49:34
It's like people love that. They like that narrative. Well, it's a story. It's like we got to feed this content machine.
00:49:40
Right. About a month later, so in February 2019, Gwyneth comes forward in statements through her representatives, gives her version of events.
00:49:48
So between 2019 and when the case finally goes to trial in 2023, the amount Terry is suing for drops from $3 million to $300,000.
00:49:57
That is because it's not arbitrary. In case they drop a couple zeros off. They're just like, please, something.
00:50:03
Because in Utah civil court, there's thresholds of amounts a plaintiff is seeking that determine how many witnesses they can call.
00:50:11
And $300,000 is the threshold for the maximum number. So, like, do they want to call more people?
00:50:18
do they not want to call more people? Maybe it's like the more people you can call to prove it,
00:50:22
the higher your number can be. But if you're fucking around and it's like there's only the
00:50:26
ski guy. You don't want that many people called, yeah. The less people called, the better your
00:50:30
chances are of winning. Oh, my thinking was the less people called, the harder it is to prove the
00:50:37
truth. So they can't go to those crazy levels. But like if something happened that eight people were
00:50:42
like, yes, that is exactly what happened, then it's easier to be like, this is provably your
00:50:47
fault or your fault. Okay. We are lawyers. I'm just making everything up while I drink a big
00:50:53
thing of beet juice. That's my new personality. That should be suspicious enough already that
00:50:58
you're drinking a big glass of beet juice. So the case doesn't go to trial until March of 2023.
00:51:03
And the fact that it goes to trial is all a testament to the fact that Gwyneth and her
00:51:07
legal team feel that fucking Terry has no case and it's absolute bullshit. By this point,
00:51:14
They're suing each other. Terry is suing Gwyneth for the $300,000, and Gwyneth is countersuing Terry for $1.
00:51:23
Oh, yeah. Plus her legal fees, which have to be astronomical. God damn it. Right?
00:51:28
So she's like, that's like the $1 thing is so, I don't want to call it petty because it's—
00:51:33
I think it's fair. Yeah. It's just the go-fuck-yourself amount. Yes, it's like, this is weird that you're doing this.
00:51:39
How dare you? But I will actually go and argue this with you because I don't want your money.
00:51:44
I could easily give you $300,000 and it wouldn't affect me for a fucking moment.
00:51:49
But I'm not fucking doing it on principle because you're wrong or you're like lying or whatever.
00:51:55
Yeah. Or you're just like, this is a money grab. And so instead of getting a bunch of money, I'm just going to prove that like sometimes this is what happens to people.
00:52:03
I mean, here's the thing. Gwyneth Paltrow is like a perfect blonde Nepo baby Hollywood superstar.
00:52:11
Yes. And goddamn. Out of touch. for sure. But our culture loves to hate those women. That's like she's supposed to go into
00:52:19
fucking accounting. Like, what do you want from her? I know she has a perfect face and she's
00:52:23
really good at acting and she's like, chill. Brad Pitt really liked her. Like, come on,
00:52:29
give it up. But yeah, they should have tons of video on ski slopes like that because it'd be so
00:52:36
hard to prove. Right. Just for liability alone. It had to be. Imagine the snowboarder that was
00:52:41
like making his own video in the front ground and then uphill downhill skier. He didn't even know what he's got.
00:52:47
And he's like, and then. The snowboarding influencer. Okay, $1, blah, blah, blah.
00:52:57
And the trial is carried, of course, on Court TV Live and streamed on YouTube and is a huge
00:53:04
sensation for some people, particularly when Gwyneth testifies for over an hour.
00:53:09
Hell yes. This feels very quarantine material to me. But I guess it was a little after.
00:53:14
Yeah. But maybe we were still traumatized enough to be like, is she in court? What's going on now?
00:53:20
Yeah. What's that? Where'd she get that turtleneck? She looks so classy in her beiges.
00:53:25
And her chignon. So her testimony is a weird thing to watch. It does seem like one of Terry lawyers is a little starstruck by Gwyneth Paltrow So it embarrassing So the line of questioning is weird She asks Gwyneth how tall she is and then like goes back and forth of like I so jealous
00:53:44
You're so tall. It's just weird. It's awkward and uncomfortable and weird. I don't know.
00:53:48
What are you doing? Yeah. I mean, honestly, it is just this like, let's be buddies kind of a weird thing.
00:53:53
And that's his lawyer. So he was probably just like fucking great. It would have been hilarious if she came out fucking guns a blazing.
00:54:00
It was like, shut up immediately. just tries to get in her face. I mean, yeah, it's really weird.
00:54:05
She asks Gwyneth if she knows Taylor Swift. What? Yeah, it's just weird. Oh, no.
00:54:11
Can I have her number? Yeah, exactly. Do you guys want to go out sometime? That's really bad.
00:54:16
Yeah. And also, that poor man who was like, oh, I kicked up all this dust, and now he's like slowly watching it all fade away.
00:54:22
Right, and it's live, so you can't be like, never mind. So there's lots of moments that become TikTok fodder
00:54:29
in this testimony and the case. Gwyneth gives her version of events again. And when asked if the collision disrupted her vacation, she says, quote, well, I lost half a day of skiing, end quote.
00:54:41
Which, like, I don't know why I'm defending her in this thing. I'm like, she doesn't fucking need me to.
00:54:44
But it is like, it almost sounds like she was being facetious. She's like, that's all that happened.
00:54:49
I lost a fucking half a day of skiing and this guy's fucking suing me for $3 million.
00:54:53
Like, you know, like it wasn't a big deal. But people take it as like a. Out of touch.
00:54:57
Oh, I lost half a second. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So. But this woman, she's always on the grind for you people.
00:55:05
You know? Right. She's like, she never stops working. Can't she have a half a day of skiing?
00:55:08
Yeah. Without everybody being like, fuck you. Totally. So, fine. Whatever. I'll defend her.
00:55:14
I don't care. Yeah, I mean, we will. At this point, I'll defend her. Because also after it happened, she packed in for the day and went and got a massage instead.
00:55:23
Because she's like, yeah, someone just fucking clobbered me. Yeah, and she's made of money.
00:55:28
And I'm so fucking, and I'm Gwyneth Paltrow. Her choice is like go pick a diamond necklace, eat fucking caviar, or go get a massage.
00:55:36
Like what would you do? Yeah. You'd do that. What do you want her to go down and work at the buffet?
00:55:40
It's Gwyneth fucking Paltrow. She's never lifted a finger, nor should she have had to.
00:55:45
No. Thank you, Black Danner, for bringing this perfect child into the world. We are going to the Paltrow stands here, it turns out.
00:55:53
We're the phoniest assholes in all of show business. I know. We're just like just as bad as the lawyer kissing her ass.
00:55:58
But I think there is a piece of it where it's like, this must happen to her or that type of person.
00:56:06
Non-fucking-stop. Like, you just can't win. Yeah. Like, anything you say is going to be torn apart.
00:56:12
Did you see Marty Supreme? Gwyneth is in it as this, like, actress who is, you know, slightly older.
00:56:20
Fucking incredible. She is a movie star. She is. That's the other thing. It's like just I think when people get around movie stars, whether they sue them or like trying to be friends with them, there's just a weird magic.
00:56:31
Like a blip in your head. It makes you a little crazy. I still love Odessa, that chick who's in Marty Supreme with the curly hair.
00:56:37
Oh, she's so good. She's in I Love L.A. and she's one of the reasons to watch it.
00:56:43
She's just incredible. I got to see that. Odessa A. Zion. Okay. And she's just like magnetic.
00:56:48
I like that movie, but my sister had to go out and stand in the lobby for a while because all of her senses were overwhelmed.
00:56:54
Why? Because you have to watch it, but the soundtrack is absolutely insane. I can't watch it.
00:56:58
I have a sensory issue. I can't watch it. Yeah, she does too. Oh, good. You should text her.
00:57:04
No, I don't want to upset her senses. That's what we don't like is to be texted.
00:57:08
Okay, so Terry's ski buddy, that guy Craig Ramone, takes the stand. He's considered to be the only eyewitness to the actual collision.
00:57:17
He, of course, backs up his friend Terry's story. He says that he heard a, quote, blood-curdling scream, end quote.
00:57:23
Nice. Thank you. Before seeing Gwyneth out of control slamming to Terry. The woman has been on ski slopes since she was, like, probably four years old.
00:57:32
Totally. Right. He also has questioned about a Facebook post he made shortly after the collision claiming Gwyneth, quote, took Terry out, end quote.
00:57:41
You know, who knows what the fuck. They're just trying to make it seem like it's her fault, obviously.
00:57:46
Well, he has broken ribs. I mean, like. Yeah, the broken ribs. But also he's an, I'm sorry, but like he's an older gentleman.
00:57:52
Right. But she wasn't hurt at all. And he broke four ribs. Not to say that it just seems like.
00:57:58
Disparate stories. Yeah. And it might be more about you and your body than the crash.
00:58:04
Right. You know? Yes. I just need to know who the uphill and downhill skiers were.
00:58:08
Totally. Because that's, all of a sudden people being like, no, no, I was in front is crazy and infuriating, I'm sure.
00:58:14
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then, of course, Eric, the ski instructor, who we must imagine is gorgeous and like, you know, fucking Fabio in the movie.
00:58:21
Like, let's just picture that because it's fun. Please. And stoned. And stoned and had a fucking bird hit him in the face.
00:58:27
Backs up Gwyneth's version of what happened. He says she's a decent skier and that she had been making good turns and that she had been skiing calmly, you know, normally.
00:58:36
He disputes the blood-curdling scream saying, quote, Miss Paltrow doesn't go down the hill screaming.
00:58:42
there would be no reason for her to be screaming just to scream, end quote. Well, no, but that's not the claim.
00:58:48
The claim is like, ah, coming in like that. Yeah. Can you picture Gwyneth Paltrow screaming out of control of fucking craziness on like a bunny slope?
00:58:56
It just doesn't. And knows how to ski. It's a bunny slope or it's a green slope.
00:59:01
Is bunny like, or no, is that not? Bunny's the one that's like there's almost no incline whatsoever.
00:59:06
That's me. But then the other one's kind of like. Okay. Pretty serious Okay So he and Terry lawyers have a long back and forth about whether or not Eric yelled at Terry There all this like fucking just questioning the teacher
00:59:18
And he's like, hey, man. Hey, man. Look, dude. She's trying to do my fucking job with when I felled.
00:59:22
Rad the snow, baby. The case probably falls apart for good when Terry is questioned.
00:59:29
In his suit, he lists many health problems that he's suffered since the collision.
00:59:33
But Gwyneth's legal team also determined that he had most of these conditions before the condition.
00:59:38
Pre-existing. Also, it's determined that his eyesight in one eye was already fairly impaired at the time of the collision.
00:59:45
I feel sensitive towards him because he's my dad's age. Oh, yeah. And I just feel sensitive.
00:59:51
Right. Like it sucks to get into a ski accident no matter what's happening. Yeah. He claims he's suffered debilitating health issues in the years since.
01:00:00
But Gwyneth's legal team points out that he had also traveled extensively after the accident,
01:00:04
taking trips to Europe, Peru, Morocco, the Canary Islands, Thailand, and Costa Rica,
01:00:10
where he's ziplined. In the end, Gwyneth winds up winning the case and is awarded the $1 in damages.
01:00:16
Ultimately, Terry winds up not having to pay her legal fees because it would have been
01:00:20
a huge amount of money. And kudos to her for not making him do that. Yeah, being decent.
01:00:27
After the verdict is read, when everyone is leaving the courtroom, this is just,
01:00:30
I mean, what do you think of this moment? It's so beautifully petty, right? It's hilarious. And I also don't know if she meant it in a petty way.
01:00:38
I think she was being sincere. I do too. Because... I totally do. It's like you and I would do it and absolutely be sarcastic.
01:00:45
Okay, here, let's say it. Let's say the word together. But she's a classy MF-er.
01:00:48
She goes by him and leans down and whispers in his ear, it's on video, she whispers, I wish you well.
01:00:55
So you could go, I wish you well. Yeah. Or you can go, I wish you well. Yeah, you could lock eyes and be like, dude.
01:01:01
Yeah, like which one? I think the way when you watch the video, it doesn't have a pettiness.
01:01:09
I don't know. I don't see the pettiness. But she's wearing a lot of cashmere. Lots of cashmere.
01:01:14
So you really give her the benefit. I bet she smells amazing too. She has this really good glowy primer on.
01:01:21
God, her skin is perfect. Her hair is perfect. She smells great. I wish you well.
01:01:25
I wish you well. End quote. And that, you know, that is my wishing them well is my talking shit.
01:01:31
that like, I'm not going to talk shit. I'm just going to say, I'm wishing them well.
01:01:35
And then you talk shit after? Yeah. Well, I talk shit. I'm just like, who are you talking about if you don't talk shit?
01:01:44
Who's that, Georgia? I don't know her. I wish you well, end quote. The reporters asked Harry if he whispered anything back to her.
01:01:50
He answers that he said, quote, thank you, dear. Oh. End quote. So they kind of ended friends.
01:01:56
Yeah, like ended on a, this is stupid, and we both can acknowledge that and like let's move on with our lives.
01:02:02
It's kind of like, hey, look, is this an opportunity to make a cool, easy $2 million?
01:02:08
Right. Like this is what people do because the courts are unregulated in that way.
01:02:13
Totally. Watch the McDonald's hot coffee documentary. Oh my God. To this day, he stands by his version of events.
01:02:21
He has to. And that is the story of the Gwyneth Paltrow ski collision trial. Now, do you think she really was innocent
01:02:27
Or do you think that she was just a more appealing witness than him? I don't think his version of events add up.
01:02:37
Not maliciously. Yeah. You know, if he were younger, I think I'd think it was malicious and like a money grab.
01:02:43
But I just don't buy it. And then also, like, you weren't hurt that bad. You didn't.
01:02:49
You're blaming her for that. But you're living your life. I don't know. You're insane, Moritz.
01:02:54
Also, I think if it was a big smash up. Yeah. There would be way more witnesses and way more people and like.
01:03:02
An incident report because places like that are immediately for insurance reasons going to be like, I know everyone's fine, but we need to write out the report.
01:03:09
Well, didn't Eric, the ski instructor. After the fact. Yeah. Which is good. But like, yeah, they would have.
01:03:14
Yeah. It wasn't all hands on deck because there's this big, terrible accident. Right.
01:03:18
Yeah. So that to me is weird as well. Did they show pictures of her in her ski outfit?
01:03:22
Oh, I didn't see. I don't know. I bet she looks cute. I mean, yeah. Elite. Why are we kissing her ass so much?
01:03:29
No, no. I'm not trying to. I'm not. I am. I mean, what do we get out of it? Free goop.
01:03:34
Free goop. I think it's an interesting thing when you are kind of at the hands of the public in that way.
01:03:41
You're like a public property. You're not a real person anymore. Right. And then it's like even just we bumped into each other.
01:03:48
Now you're going to pay me money. Totally. And like the three years later thing.
01:03:52
Yeah. Three years later afterwards is when he started suing her. He had to go on vacation to eight places.
01:03:57
Right. But also, in fairness, if she did come through and smash into him and break his ribs.
01:04:03
Yeah. And ski away like too bad chump. Totally. And then he's just like, no one's ever going to be on my side because it's Gwyneth Paltrow.
01:04:10
Yeah, and I've had to go through all these things because of broken ribs, which is really fucking painful.
01:04:16
Yeah. And makes zip lining really hard. Then, like, I don't know. He reminds me of my dad a little, so I'm like, don't want to.
01:04:24
I know. You know. I know. He's like this sweet old man looking guy. That was such a good idea and such a like.
01:04:31
Yeah. It's almost like, hey, let's read the newspaper together. Totally. But it's true crime.
01:04:35
It is. It is. And anyone who says different. Here's the thing. I do think that if this was different, she wouldn't have done the $1.
01:04:43
She wouldn't have waived the legal fees. Yeah. like all of those moves belie at least like a good faith person It that thing of like my integrity is on the line here And I refuse to back down because you lying
01:04:57
Because that's not true. So I don't think she would have done that if it were true.
01:05:01
Right. But I do think it was like very close to the Johnny Depp Amber Heard thing.
01:05:06
It felt similar. It felt like it was right there where you're just like, what's happening?
01:05:11
All of a sudden, Court TV is back and better than ever. Why is this entertainment?
01:05:14
I know. It shouldn't be. That's the downfall of, wait a second, this is a true crime podcast.
01:05:18
Hold on a second. Okay. All right. That's fucking it. Well, that was a great way to distract from our horrors.
01:05:25
We did that. Yes, we did. I don't feel as bad as I thought I would at the end of this story.
01:05:29
I'm sorry, Gwyneth, but I feel fucking great after your nutso experience. And I'm sorry, Broken Ribs Man, because if you are right and the world is against you, what a tragedy.
01:05:40
Truly. In this day and age, that's the tragedy of all tragedies. What if she leaned forward and said, what is it?
01:05:46
Peace be with you. What did she say? I wish you well. I wish you well. But then she very quickly winked with one eye.
01:05:53
Winks just like. Just like, no, I don't. No, I don't. Okay. Yeah. Amazing. Good distraction.
01:06:00
Thank you. Great story. Yeah, thank you. Yeah. So now that we're back in the real world, we want to throw some money at the problem by donating $10,000 to the ACLU.
01:06:09
Well, considering everything that's going on, what if we give $25,000? Love it. Let's do it.
01:06:14
Yeah. In the name of Murderinos and all of you guys for just supporting us and listening.
01:06:19
Thank you. And anything you can do, go on social media. The people of Minneapolis need your help, need your support.
01:06:25
Probably money or donations. There's all kinds of services. This is really an insane situation that everyone is in.
01:06:34
And whether you can volunteer, give $5, or just give a shit and pay attention. This is a pivotal moment.
01:06:41
Yeah, it is. I think it's going to be historical. so let's be on the right side of history.
01:06:45
God. Anyway, stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
01:06:53
What gets you to believe in something? And I mean really, really believe. To the point that you'd be willing to travel thousands of miles
01:07:06
and put your faith, even your own body, on the line for it. desperate, that's what I was,
01:07:14
weighing freaking 80 pounds with a child to raise. We went to multiple doctors. They couldn't figure out
01:07:21
what was actually the problem. Nobody told me they were going to cure my father.
01:07:27
No doctor, neurosurgeon. But he said, I'm going to cure your father. And I believed it.
01:07:36
How long are you willing to hold that belief until you question the whole thing.
01:07:43
As they would say, either I believed in him or I believed in death. I had to believe in him.
01:07:51
Joao Teixeira de Faria, better known as John of God, is a Brazilian spiritual healer
01:07:57
who over five decades grew into one of the most famous healers in the world. He had healed the wives of ministers,
01:08:06
presidents and owners of big companies. This is real. This guy's actually doing surgery and it's a miracle.
01:08:14
I never believed that miracles were real until that point. You had literally thousands of people in white milling around
01:08:21
and everyone tells you how they've been saved by this person. After a while, I was like, well, can all these people be wrong?
01:08:30
But while he drew thousands of followers who claimed he cured their cancer, or helped them walk again.
01:08:38
Over time, a darker side began to reveal itself. One of the reasons why I never went to the police
01:08:44
is because I saw at least five or six men with guns everywhere he went. That was clear to me, like, close your mouth, don't open your mouth, don't say anything.
01:08:56
From Exactly Right Media and Adonde Media, this is Two-Faced, John of God. I'm executive producer and host Martina Castro.
01:09:05
And over the course of the next six episodes, I'll tell you how this man painted himself as a gifted healer.
01:09:12
But as his power and influence grew, he used it to lead a double life, one driven by intimidation, greed, and sexual assault.
01:09:22
It's very difficult and it's very also lonely. One small person against God. Listen to Two-Faced, John of God
01:09:34
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts and Spanish speakers
01:09:40
pueden escuchar esta serie en español busquen a dos caras Juan de Dios This has been an Exactly Right production
01:09:54
Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
01:10:00
This episode was mixed by Liana Squalachi. Our researchers are Mira McGlashan and Allie Elkin.
01:10:05
Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com. And follow the show on Instagram at myfavoritemurder.
01:10:10
Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:10:15
Or you can watch us on YouTube. Search for My Favorite Murder, then like and subscribe.
01:10:20
Goodbye.