00:00:00
This is exactly right. An average annual single line payment of AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Wireless plan as of January 2026.
00:00:35
For full offer details, visit BoostMobile.com. Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.
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Was I supposed to say that whole part at the beginning? No. I think I was supposed to say to rewind with Karen and Georgia.
00:01:03
Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows with new commentary updates and insights.
00:01:07
Today, we're recapping episode 81. I have no idea why this episode is called Weapon Bush, but I can't wait to find out.
00:01:15
I mean, these are some of the fun mysteries that get solved for us internally as we do these Rewind episodes.
00:01:21
And this one came out August 10th, 2017. So let's listen to the intro of episode 81 of Weapon Bush.
00:01:30
you've never laughed so quickly yet you the smile you just gave me was like karen i know you're losing your mind please be here with me now guys i just hello welcome to my
00:01:45
favorite murder hi uh that's karen that's george i uh my dogs just got out as i was driving over
00:01:53
here, I got a call from my God blessed neighbor, Carolyn, uh, who is the one who people go to
00:02:02
cause she knows everybody in the neighborhood and she baked cookies. She, I think so. Um,
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she's the best neighbor and, uh, my dogs already got out once this week. And so when I saw her
00:02:14
name come up on my phone, I was like, no God. And it, and it was her Frank and George bad dog.
00:02:20
Yeah, it's George. So she's there's the front gate. It's locks, but kind of not really. And I think she's pushing on it. And so I had just left the house to come over here to record. Tell everyone your address and where the gate is. And everyone can just go check it every once in a while as a favor. Yeah, I think it would be nice. It's the worst feeling when A, your dogs are out. B, you they don't have name tags on because somehow the name tags have fallen off over the years and I've never replaced them.
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And see, they've already gotten out once this week and alerted the entire neighborhood was in action.
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And they were out all day because I was at work. You walked in to the apartment with like a perfectly drop of tear on your glasses.
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Like it had been raining. On the inside of your glasses, there was like this perfect teardrop.
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It's always raining inside of me. It was just like this huge teardrop. You should have seen.
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Like, you know how I can be. When I got out of this car. A ballet dancer. The best.
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Sometimes she just does ballet for no reason. So graceful. So ladylike. I got out of my car and there was a man sitting on his front porch.
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And I walked up and he didn't say anything to me and I didn't say anything to him.
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And then finally I went, do you have the dogs? And he was like, yeah. And he goes, is everything okay?
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And I go, I guess not. And then I just started bawling in front of a man I don't know.
00:03:47
crying in front of strangers is the most like vulnerable you can be and you hope they react well
00:03:52
you're like oh honey it's okay he was shocked i would say he was shocked i meant later was he like
00:03:59
how dad was he like what level of he was dad but i think he had a little bit of the get your shit
00:04:05
together these dogs were wandering in the street which i that's the burn of it is that i 100%
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agree with him the fact that it's happened several times is like unforgivable and the idea that i'm
00:04:19
just fucking driving around my dogs are like just in the street just milo and otis sing the fuck out
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of it i'm very upsetting so anyway that's how i that's the energy i'm bringing tonight i think
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that's why i smiled at you like that yes it was like how are you gonna do this such kindness because
00:04:38
It's been 10 minutes since you got here. It's not like we had to sit down and we all talked and had tea.
00:04:43
No one had tea or biscuits. No, I came in hot. With tears, tears. Hot tears. Hot tears.
00:04:50
Not my style. And now Georgia's trying to hold my energy with me. I've hugged you twice.
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Yes. And that's like the most I've ever hugged anyone in my life. It was really nice.
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I really appreciate it. Genuinely. You're welcome. No, I'm welcome. We have burgers being delivered.
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We're going to have a break for burgers at some point. My God. And then I look at my phone. Carolyn, I actually want to leave my phone up just in case.
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I'm leaving mine up right now only because of burgers. Otherwise, it stresses me out so much.
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Okay. I mean, I scream burgers. You're going to hear a pause. You're not going to hear a pause. You're
00:05:22
going to hear nothing because this is a fucking professional podcast. Yeah, that's right. Stephen's going to cut it out.
00:05:28
We haven't said in a while, but we didn't know this would be a thing. And we still don't know this is a thing, this podcast.
00:05:35
It's a large adjustment. We're doing our best. We're doing our best not to think about it.
00:05:41
Right. Because we just love it. And we're just trying to do it. We're just trying.
00:05:46
We're doing our best. Look in. Listen. Look in. Listen. Look in. I'm just. Listen.
00:05:51
Mashing words up. This time. You got anything? Elvis is healthy Good Let get it Let get We missed a couple of weeks of this So let get one at the top Elvis Want a cookie Whoa
00:06:05
That's how healthy he is. That was like Tom Jones level vocal pronounced. Hi friend.
00:06:12
And now to ask the other question. Cause I can't get up. Very healthy. Steven, will you give Elvis a cookie?
00:06:17
Want a cookie? Yeah. I'm on it cookie boy. He's like hell yeah. So basically he had the flu.
00:06:24
He had the flu. He had the plague that Dottie the kitten brought. Yes. She's adorable.
00:06:29
She's here. Mimi's here. Everyone's here. Oh, good. Life's back to normal. Nice.
00:06:33
That's a good feeling. I do have something. Okay. Okay. So, God, it feels like it's been so long.
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Yeah. The last time that we podcast, remember, I was like, he had a brain hemorrhage and no
00:06:42
bleeding or something. Yes. We were talking about like, is a brain hemorrhage this?
00:06:47
We were talking about aneurysms. We're going into things that we've heard of but don't know about.
00:06:52
And we were speculating. Yeah, that's all we do. Well, it turns out that our friend Kara Klink, hilarious comedian, her brother is a brain surgeon of some sort.
00:07:05
Why she never told me about that? Want me to find out? Let's see. She texted me and said, my brother is a neurologist.
00:07:15
And he said, I'm listening to my favorite murder. And they're asking doctors who are listening to weigh in on brain hemorrhage.
00:07:21
Get me Georgia's direct number. And I met him and he's like this sweet, normal kid, like at a comedy party and like all these
00:07:29
fucking comedians. And then he's just like, Hey, I'm a brain doctor. Oh my God. Hello.
00:07:34
So cute. Pull him aside. I know somebody. Okay. So he, I was like, yes, I need it to know everything.
00:07:40
So she, he's, his name is Colin. Hi Georgia. This is Colin, Kara's brother. Here's my little blurb on cerebral hemorrhage.
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Okay. As you do. So the good news is neither of you was wrong. Generally speaking, hemorrhage just means bleeding, usually profusely, but not always.
00:07:59
For example, even a small amount of blood in the brain can be disastrous. And it's still called a hemorrhage.
00:08:05
So cerebral hemorrhage is just a general term for bleeding in the brain. Lots of different things can cause cerebral hemorrhage, including trauma or aneurysms, as Karen pointed out.
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Oh, yeah. Karen was right. So are you. He's like a grammar school teacher, encouraging us to learn.
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To just keep talking out of school. Just to not give up. Cerebral hemorrhage can also lead to stroke, as you alluded.
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He's like, Karen was right, Georgia, and here were you two. Also, clarification about aneurysm.
00:08:37
Since it came up, an aneurysm is just a bulging of an artery due to weakness in the artery wall.
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Plenty of people walk around with aneurysms every day. Can you tell that I'm not practicing speaking smart words?
00:08:49
Ameurysm is a hard word to say. My mouth hurts right now. And also the concept that you just introduced is very difficult.
00:08:56
I don't even want to talk about that. We're all walking. That's like the shingles virus is already inside you.
00:09:01
I don't want to know. The shingles virus is calling from inside that body. The shingles virus is sneaking up on you with a big knife.
00:09:09
But you turn around or you close the medicine cabinet mirror and it's gone. But then it's on your back.
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I don't know. They only become hemorrhages when they rupture and bleed into the surrounding tissue.
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So I said, this is such great info. Thank you. I'll read it for Corrections Corner
00:09:25
next week. My pleasure. Blah, blah, blah. Also, send my apologies to Stephen. I ran
00:09:30
into him outside Kara's apartment when I was in LA last month and accosted him like,
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excuse me, are you Stephen Ray Morris? Big fan. And I wrote, ha, he loves that shit. Oh, I loved it.
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Yeah. Made my day. Big fan of Steven's editing. So, um. Nice. So, yeah, that was because I did the pizza bomber murder.
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And remember, the woman who they thought killed her ex-boyfriend had sent him an aneurysm.
00:10:00
But I was like, you can't get an aneurysm unless someone hits you. I don't know.
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I made some shit up. Right, right, right, right. Well, we have these, like, ideas.
00:10:07
It's all from forensic files. it's all just sitting in our brain from like a combination of forensic files and law and order
00:10:13
where you're like oh i know this let me take this let me take this because i've i've taken
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every single episode of forensic files and put them into one into my brain so i was like this
00:10:22
one girl who was dying of an aneurysm who then put a bomb of pizza around the neck
00:10:28
of a parrot who then told then testified in court so insane yeah that was a really good case that
00:10:37
was a good place um what do you have anything just this one aneurysm um you know what i will
00:10:43
i want to say this and this is like i don't want to be a big deal but i i there was an article
00:10:50
written on bitch media okay and um it was an article about this podcast being racist and
00:10:57
there's been people who contacted us on social media i think feeling nervous about that or
00:11:02
defensive and here's what i'd like to say other people calling us about that article and about
00:11:07
that idea. And the, and that thing that's kicked up or feeling like, you know, I don't like this,
00:11:13
or I want you guys to know that we like you or whatever. And here's what I'd like to say.
00:11:19
Uh, we now live in a political climate where neo-Nazis are, feel totally fine wielding their ignorance and violence in the fucking street. You used to be ashamed of that,
00:11:34
We live in a political climate where mosques are being blown up, where black people are getting shot in the street, where people are being deported away from their families.
00:11:43
This is serious. People of color are scared and they're upset and they have a right to be.
00:11:51
And if if anyone who is a person of color hears something they don like we want to hear about it and we are listening We won argue with you on social media we won engage it but we will do the thing that I think
00:12:06
is the most important thing for white people to do right now, which is to take their ego out of it
00:12:12
and to take their reactivity out of it. And it's hard to be told you're racist. It's hard to be
00:12:18
told that when you think you're so woke or you think you're being an ally, for someone to stand
00:12:24
up and go, it doesn't work. We don't like this. So I just want to say, we are listening to you
00:12:30
and we hear you and we are your allies just so they know. Yeah. Cause I, and cause I don't want
00:12:37
this thing to start up of like anyone needs to fight or that I want to support anyone who's
00:12:43
trying to use their voice to fight for equality. It's important, especially now. I agree. Or someone
00:12:49
saying like, but they've said these things and they've covered these cases. So they're not like
00:12:53
Like those, you know, it's not like you do A, B, and C, and then you're not racist anymore,
00:12:57
or you're not doing or saying racist things, or not even racist. It's not even racist.
00:13:01
It's things that are incorrect, like historically. Like, oh, you're not supposed to say, you know, we're learning every...
00:13:08
I'm constantly trying to learn what I'm doing that I, even though I think I'm this fucking
00:13:14
woke person too, I don't know what I'm doing right now. And we do things that we don't realize because this podcast is popular.
00:13:20
we do not want to propagate the negative media stereotype of people of color we do not want to
00:13:27
do that if we do it we want to stop doing it any minority yes any we i know how fucking hugely
00:13:34
privileged i am yeah and actually this thing happened recently to me that kind of hit me over
00:13:39
the head even more so because i've always been like well i'm jewish so i kind of understand like
00:13:43
some kind of minority bullshit thing right but it's like recently i went to this doctor he's
00:13:48
Jewish with like a very Jewish last name. And he looked at my chart and he was like, you know,
00:13:52
finding out my history. And I was like, well, I'm Jewish, blah, blah, blah. And he was like,
00:13:56
he saw my last name and he was like, wow, you're really lucky that you don't have a Jewish sounding
00:14:00
last name because you didn't get, you know, the antisemitism that people who have Jewish last
00:14:07
names get. And I was like, oh God, this whole time I've been like, well, I'm Jewish. And it's
00:14:12
the name Hardstark doesn't look Jewish. Right. And so I missed this whole, this whole level of anti-Semitism. Yeah. And, um, just because of that, which is like,
00:14:25
oh, you just don't know until you are told or you see it, what you're not experiencing.
00:14:30
And it's hard to, it's hard to understand what you're blind to. It's hard to know what you don't
00:14:37
know. And so the key is listening. The key is paying attention. And then you hear this thing
00:14:42
too of like, it's not other people's jobs to teach us, to teach you and I. We can't be like,
00:14:50
well, tell us what we're doing wrong. That's not their job. And I know it's really frustrating for
00:14:54
a lot of people of color to have to, or to, you know, the LGBTQ community to have to teach us.
00:14:59
That's, it's our job to learn, not for them to tell us. So we just want those people who might,
00:15:05
If you're still listening and you've ever felt othered or in any kind of a reactive position like that, because of anything we've said on this podcast, that is the absolute last thing we want to be happening.
00:15:20
The best thing about this podcast is the community that has grown up around true crime and around it.
00:15:26
It is the most lovely thing to see in the world. And we want people to be a part of that.
00:15:32
We don't want anyone to feel like they're not welcome or they're not adored, that they're not being listened to.
00:15:38
And I think a lot of people who have been listening to the beginning know that because we'll always read emails and letters from people who are like, here's what you did.
00:15:44
Like even using the term sex workers. If you listen from the beginning, we didn't say that.
00:15:48
We said prostitutes. Right. Because we didn't know. We didn't know. As soon as we find out, we correct ourselves and admit that, not admit, we say we did something wrong.
00:15:56
here's an email from someone who is teaching us, I did it, is telling us the correct,
00:16:03
the correct way to do it because they understand that we want to learn. Right. You know, and it's, yeah, it's, it's just a process and it's a flawed process, but we,
00:16:14
I think it's important at this moment in time that we identify ourselves as allies,
00:16:19
flawed allies that are doing their best because, because that's the key, I think.
00:16:25
So, yeah, I think we've been avoiding it for a long time because it feels like the more you even slightly interact, it's you're adding fuel to a fire that you just don't want to be happening.
00:16:37
Acknowledge, yeah. But the truth of it is, like, everybody feeling really scared in the last couple days because of this fucking nuclear war thing.
00:16:44
Well, the thing that made me realize is people of color feel like this every single day.
00:16:49
Fuck yeah, dude. Every single fucking day. I'm so glad you brought this up, Karen.
00:16:52
I mean, it's, it's just, we live in a really fucking scary time, but there's, it's, I don't know.
00:17:02
Let's all, let's all stick together, I guess. Let's the people who support each other.
00:17:05
We, we don't have to feel like there's such a huge force of people who are on a certain side and we can't identify with each other.
00:17:16
And you and I have this really fucking amazing opportunity out of nowhere. Like we said, we didn't know this was going to be a thing.
00:17:21
Well, fuck yeah. Thank you for bringing that up. Of course. I'm really glad you did.
00:17:24
You did it very eloquently. I've been thinking about it a lot. Don't think a lot.
00:17:32
Is there anything else? God, I feel like it's been... Oh, I guess it's been a while.
00:17:38
Tour dates? Tour dates. God damn it. Oh, really? I really quickly wanted to go over just the dates that have been added and the ones for
00:17:45
people to go look at. All right. I'm going to spew some dates at you guys really quickly, though.
00:17:49
If you just want to go to myfavoritemurder slash live there a list of shows and links to the actual tickets So you not going to get scalped or anything like that But so a couple of them added and to check out really soon September 6th
00:18:06
which is in less than a freaking month. We're going to be in Auckland, New Zealand at the Bruce Mason Center.
00:18:14
So crazy. So please go get those tickets. Yeah. Auckland. Hey, what's up? Meet us at Bruce Mason.
00:18:19
Please. You know, you go down to Bruce Mason to go watch all your violin playing and stuff.
00:18:24
Is that what they do there? I don't know. Bring me Auckland, New Zealand snacks, please.
00:18:28
Because all I want to do in Australia and New Zealand is eat like hand pies and stuff.
00:18:32
And Tim Tams. And Tim Tams. I'm so excited about the food. Yeah, it's going to be good.
00:18:36
We added a second, a fucking third show, Melbourne, Australia. Third? Badass motherfucker. September 10th, which is again very soon.
00:18:46
We've added a third show at the Comedy Theater because you guys are awesome. and we've added
00:18:51
oh I'm sorry who's playing the Sydney Opera House here in on on September 12th do you know
00:18:58
who's going to be playing I believe it's you and I I believe you are this is insane right this is my dad
00:19:04
actually tried to figure out a way to go with us he is so excited that we're playing
00:19:08
the Sydney Opera House I don't know why it means so much to him but it really means a lot I think it's because he's gone to Sydney
00:19:14
because he used to he used to be a purser on Princess Cruises What's a purser? The guy that carries your bags.
00:19:21
Oh, that makes sense. Like, that's how my parents met. And so they... You don't know that story?
00:19:26
Fucking kidding me. My mom was a nurse and my dad was a purser on, like, the Mattson lines, actually.
00:19:33
They were pursed. And my mom was already engaged. And when they met, my dad talked about this actually at her funeral service, which was so sweet.
00:19:43
He said the second he saw her, he goes, she was wearing a green sweater. and I knew I'm in trouble.
00:19:49
I know, isn't that the best? So anyway, how did I not know this? I know, it's the best.
00:19:55
So there's a lot of like emotional attachment to Australia and to Sydney. Did I really just make you cry?
00:20:01
No. I think I'm getting my period and my meds have been real screwy lately, but that's still the sweetest thing I've ever heard in my life.
00:20:08
It's kind of the best. He was going to try to go with us, but he can't go. My parents met wherever,
00:20:13
who gives a shit they got divorced? but like your parents met and he really did follow through they were yeah it's true they
00:20:19
were married for almost 50 years that's amazing he or four yeah yeah like 45 years
00:20:25
i know it was it was a good time i mean that's it was it was no it was a wife it was a life well
00:20:33
lived okay yes it really this was she got the man of her dreams and she had a happy marriage
00:20:38
and two kids, one who had a pretty good podcast. Wait, your sister has a podcast?
00:20:44
One who's cheating children's lives. Your sister has a podcast? Oh, happy birthday, by the way.
00:20:49
Nice move, Georgia. Laura. God damn it. Did you call her Karen? I called her Sarah, and you know why?
00:20:55
Because the only reason I can remember her name is because you worked with Sarah Silverman.
00:20:59
Sarah Silverman's sister's name is Laura. So I always think Karen and Sarah. I know Karen and Laura.
00:21:04
Oh, that's hilarious. Is that weird? I can't remember names. Shit. can we no no no no it's funny she'll think it's funny as long as you didn't call her karen which
00:21:14
is what happens to her all the time and it makes her really mad really because people like family
00:21:20
friends will welcome go are you karen the comedian and she'll go no i'm laura the one that shapes
00:21:24
children's minds she's a teacher because she's a genius teacher nbd no big deal uh okay that's
00:21:33
those were our tour dates no no wait there's a few more that are oh shit steven the food's here
00:21:38
oh god i just hung up on him shit steven can you do me a big favor and go down to the don't cut
00:21:42
this doing i'm gonna eat all of it though at the bottom of the stairs with this um can you
00:21:48
yeah is this edited okay um but don't stop it keep going bring the key to the gate because
00:21:56
sometimes they will lock you out there's a key like on the hook no no no yeah just bring the key hook it's good also just can i just say in this moment of chaos
00:22:08
first of all chaos is a ladder as we all learned on game of thrones last week no spoilers wait do
00:22:14
you watch that um but i said burgers and then i'll you can you can add leave burgers in
00:22:21
Yeah. Burger time. Burger time. So Sydney Opera House, September 12th, coming up.
00:22:34
And then... Oh, Detroit, we added a show to you. Oh. Which is so cool because people like...
00:22:44
So we're going to be in Detroit September 29th. And September 29th, there's an early show and a late show.
00:22:51
And then San Diego, we added a show because you're fucking awesome, too. September 13th, there's a late show.
00:22:58
And then Anaheim, we're coming to you on the 14th of October. Second show at the Orpheum in Madison, Wisconsin.
00:23:11
You guys sold out Friday the 20th. So we're adding September the 21st, Saturday, the next night.
00:23:18
Okay. And then Tampa, we have November 3rd for you at the Hard Rock on the 4th. We have Orlando and then Fort Lauderdale on the 5th.
00:23:30
Come there. There's other shows, too, but those are the ones that are like have tickets like a lot of tickets available.
00:23:40
So everything else. Go look at myfavoritemurderer.com slash live. And more dates to come.
00:23:47
There are people that tweet a lot, naming cities and saying, why do you hate us?
00:23:53
You're going to be so pleasantly surprised, is all I'm saying. These are all 2017 dates that we've announced.
00:23:58
We can't tell you certain dates. but we're going to be able to soon. So just have a little faith, have a little hope.
00:24:03
I would say the same thing to the girl that tweeted me and said, you guys didn't release a mini this week.
00:24:13
And then she mentioned something about Unqualified. Oh, that we're Unqualified to podcast?
00:24:19
Nope. She mentioned something about Anna Faris. And I just thought it was such an odd coincidence
00:24:25
because we're going to be on Unqualified with Anna Faris next week. We did a combo hybrid episode.
00:24:34
King duo. Trio. A trio, yeah. We all compare. Well, actually a quadro if you include Sam, who is her producer.
00:24:42
What's another one with Steven? Oh, shit. Sorry, Steven was there too. He's a 5-0.
00:24:48
I mean, I was just hanging out. Just kind of touching the leather couches. I mean, that was a nice house.
00:24:54
It was really nice. We had a good time at Anna's house. And we had, we got to give people advice that we were also unqualified to give.
00:25:02
Anna gave a fucking her murder, which was awesome. Yes. It was fun. So fucking cool.
00:25:07
She's the best. I've, I've honestly always been a fan of hers. I've honestly, the movie, Just Friends, if you haven't seen it with Anna Faris, Ryan Reynolds.
00:25:19
I don't know the name of the lead girl. Because Anna just distracted you so much.
00:25:25
But if you haven't seen that movie, it's the best. Anyway, I've loved her since that movie.
00:25:29
We're going to be on that. That's going to be this coming week. Whatever that is.
00:25:32
Good times. Great oldies. Great oldies. Also, besides Laura's birthday, Vince's birthday is coming up this week.
00:25:38
We got a big birthday. That's right. Vince's birthday. Happy birthday. Should I give everyone the name and date of his and location of his birthday party?
00:25:47
Yes. That's a great idea. There is a reason I'm saying that, but I'm not going to say it because then everyone will actually know it.
00:25:53
But he's having a joint birthday party with some people. And one of the people just puts it up on fucking social media for everyone to know.
00:26:00
I know the person. Yeah. The famousest. The famousest of them is like. Cut it. But last year, Nick Lachey was at his birthday party.
00:26:10
Oh, that's nice. I know, right? All right. Should we talk about murder? Oh, yes.
00:26:16
My neighbor just texted me and said he's going to fix my fence tomorrow. Hell yes, everybody.
00:26:21
Hopefully he doesn't think fix my fence is a wink wink, like break George's legs so she can never get out again.
00:26:28
Oh, I'm sorry. That was horrible. Hi, best friend. Look at Mimi come right over.
00:26:32
Being a Mimi being like, please get me the fuck out of here. This kitten is killing me.
00:26:38
You know what would be so funny, though? Then I put her down in my house and the dogs just come running straight at her.
00:26:44
But then hug her? And hug her close to their chest. Mimi would beat the shit out of them.
00:26:51
Yes, for sure. No, she wouldn't. Frank would have no eyes left. Well, I've seen the way they throw the doll of me around in the air,
00:26:59
which I need to put on fucking Instagram again. But this, that would, oh, Mimi girl.
00:27:03
Okay. Steven? Steven who? Who have any idea who's first? I tried really hard this time.
00:27:07
It's Karen. Okay. Damn it. Because, well, I mean, again, people are like, do the live shows count?
00:27:11
But that was the last episode. Last episode. Karen went last. So Karen goes first.
00:27:16
Okay. Yeah, I don't know if the live shows count. we're creating our own reality here i think the episodes we post count right yeah yeah yeah
00:27:25
except they're not real time to us that's the weird part how about after live shows
00:27:29
we get it i'm burping we gotta choose who goes first sure but only only only on that day
00:27:37
like only in that scenario which one that we in the scenario where we have just posted a live show
00:27:44
Yeah, if we've just posted a live show, because we don't know, you know, so much going on.
00:27:50
Okay, so then, oh, how about we rock, paper, scissors right now? Basically, a live show does a reset is what you're saying.
00:27:57
That sounds fine to me. Okay, we do rock, paper, scissors, hit, right? Okay. Rock, paper, scissors, hit.
00:28:04
That means you get to decide or you get to decide? I just cut Georgia's paper. I'm scissors, she's paper.
00:28:10
That's true. That was the I'm scissors, I'm paper song, which means Karen goes first.
00:28:14
I'll go first. That was unnecessary. There is a level of hysteria to this episode that I am enjoying quite a bit.
00:28:23
Because your dogs didn't get hit by cars. Because my dogs aren't dead. My neighbor's going to fix my fence.
00:28:29
Oh, I didn't even tell you guys about the sunburn that I have. If I had a smaller upper body.
00:28:36
Oh, and I also didn't tell you. What happened? Can you see? You're just not pale.
00:28:42
Oh, no, that's red. yeah oh that's gonna peel my whole back what happened i just stood outside for 15 minutes
00:28:48
like a fool like some sort of normal person with normal skin i didn't know you were that
00:28:53
irish yeah well i do it where i'll save it save it save it and then all of a sudden i'm like i love
00:28:59
i'm gonna go outside and stand in the pool and then i do it for like i'll start reading my phone
00:29:04
or something and then i'm just standing around with no sunblock on for like an extended period
00:29:08
of time at one o'clock, which is the, you know, you can't do it. I didn't know that about you.
00:29:13
Yeah. How I burn. I, I, that's why I don't like all the life, anything. That's why I don't like
00:29:22
anything. It's like photosynthesis because we live in a summertime city where everybody here
00:29:30
has perfect skin and you're wearing right now, you're wearing a terry cloth, like summer jumper.
00:29:36
Like you're living the life. Because I am a nondescript Jew who can tan well. I know.
00:29:43
And you have a consistency. Right now, I look like Neapolitan ice cream. I am deeply tan.
00:29:51
I am frighteningly white. But here's what I want you to know. There a pinkness Here what you guys got to remember people and how they look And they have this perfect thing I am so fucking anxious and have so much anxiety around the bathing suit strapped
00:30:05
tan lines that I am so insane in the sun that that's why I don't have them. I don't look like,
00:30:12
ah, this great glowy tan. It's just no big deal. Like I will not go outside with fucking straps on.
00:30:17
Oh, okay. Different Karen. So you work, you're saying you really put in the mental
00:30:21
and the physical work. Because I think nothing looks trashier than having like, especially the, I'm going to insult a lot of people.
00:30:29
You know, they're like. Yeah. Including the one you're looking at right now. No, no, no, no, no, no.
00:30:33
I'm not, I don't care about any of that. I'm saying the triangle bikini tan line.
00:30:38
Girl. That goes up around your neck. Well, you don't wear clothes. I've never seen a fucking bit of your skin aside from your.
00:30:44
If I, all I want to do right now is take my shirt off and show you. It's not a farmer's tan anymore.
00:30:51
Now I've got the thing that's happening to me right now is is like a lobster tan.
00:30:56
But that's what I would call it. You have a fucking pool in your backyard. That's true.
00:31:00
You just be like tits out. Right. So what the fuck? Tits out fits out. Tits out fits out.
00:31:06
Everyone who's looking for that backyard where they can break into. There's also a pool back there and there's a Karen Kilgariff without.
00:31:15
No, I wear a full caftan at all times, except for the 15 minutes. I didn't do it today.
00:31:20
And I'm now bright pink. I don't know where this is going. I don't have time. And yet all I want to do is talk about this.
00:31:26
All I want to do is talk about this. What if I did an episode without murder? We could do it.
00:31:31
We must be 30 minutes in already. 45. And we are back. We're back. This was your old house in Burbank, right?
00:31:41
Were you still there? Yes. Okay. That's right. So that's where George was able to like climb a fence.
00:31:48
It wasn't your fault. I just want to go ahead and like, it wasn't like Karen was being an irresponsible dog owner where it's like, what do you mean? Of course that happened. It's like this brilliant dog.
00:31:57
Yes. She was climbing the fence like a human being, flipping. When she'd get to the top, she flipped over, fell into a hedge, rolled off and walked up the street.
00:32:07
All purposefully, like falling into a hedge wasn't an accident. No, she planned it like a weird, like a, like a bandit.
00:32:13
Have you seen the... And sorry, but the only reason we know that is because my neighbor Rick was standing in the driveway next to that bush for the third time she did it.
00:32:23
And he witnessed the whole thing because I'd already called him. He's a contractor.
00:32:26
I'd already called him and said, all my fences are broken. I don't know what's happening.
00:32:29
Like, I'm becoming the bane of this neighborhood. Yeah, you're the bad owner. And it's like, you're not a bad owner.
00:32:33
You just have a really smart dog. Yeah, who goes up to Priscilla's cafe and gets people to pet her.
00:32:39
Wait, what? Priscilla's was up on the corner. She would walk to the cafe? She'd walk up to the cafe and then be like walking around and people like, oh, my God, this dog.
00:32:47
And then it got posted on fucking Facebook. You're so lucky that you got her back.
00:32:52
Oh, my God. I would have taken her home immediately and been like, my dog. Yeah. And like, oh, sorry, there's no tags.
00:32:57
She had tags. Of course, yeah. Her tags on. She shipped. Clearly. She shipped. Completely.
00:33:03
But the third time she did it, she got brought to the pound. So that's a fucking lesson.
00:33:09
Yeah. It's not a bunch of people giving you their turkey from their sandwiches. at Priscilla's.
00:33:14
No. That's like, and when I went to pick her up, she was in the kennel, like with the panicked eyes.
00:33:20
And I was like, you did this to yourself. You did this to yourself. You always see the heartwarming videos
00:33:25
of the dog being so happy to see the owner and not the like, well, yeah. Her tail was wagging,
00:33:29
but her eyes were gigantic. I'm just like, yeah, I hope this is enough trauma for you to stop doing this.
00:33:34
It's like when you're, my cat, Moe is constantly trying to get out and I'm like,
00:33:37
you will get eaten by a coyote immediately. It's not a prize. Yes. It's not a big fucking
00:33:42
surprise like world rave that you're missing there's not a bunch of herring waiting for you
00:33:48
at the end of the driveway but you know where there is dried herring in your fucking cat food
00:33:52
cupboard like literal dried herring where mommy gives it to you gotta leave okay so crazy yeah
00:33:59
and then i love that the brain hemorrhage conversation that we were this is like just
00:34:04
this is classic mfm of like tell us what we said wrong and so we had just referred casually to a
00:34:10
brain hemorrhage and then Kara Klink's brother was like, hey, this is how that's wrong.
00:34:13
What's the difference between a brain hemorrhage and a brain aneurysm? Oh, okay.
00:34:17
And so Kara Klink actually has like four, like five or six siblings and they all do something
00:34:22
really interesting. I've met a handful of them and they're all lovely. And so yeah,
00:34:26
what if I was a brain surgeon and corrected us? And then it's so funny because it was 2017.
00:34:31
We didn't even have a network yet. And now you guys know Kara Klink is one of the hosts of
00:34:35
That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast on the Exactly Right Network. It's almost like it's legit going through these.
00:34:42
It was like, these are our real friends. Yeah. We're referencing, I'm socially referencing Bridger.
00:34:47
You're socially referencing Cara Clank. And actually, she and I were talking the other day about how Cara Clank was at the Halloween party we met at.
00:34:54
Yep. And she and her husband, Jared, and our friend Crystal were supposed to be three blind mice together.
00:35:01
But Crystal got social anxiety and didn't show up. So it was just Jared and Kara being two blind mice the whole time.
00:35:08
But also, what if you had spent your time talking to Crystal and we never met? See, if Crystal had been there, she and I would have been awkward and weird in a corner together because we are.
00:35:17
Yes. If she didn't come, then I was like... I love her. She is the best. She's such a fun person to talk to and hang out with.
00:35:25
But I bet you that was you were slightly unbalanced because you didn't have your party posse.
00:35:31
And she and I don't think we knew each other that well yet either. So it wasn't like I would have texted like, bitch, you fucking better come.
00:35:37
Like, you can't leave me alone here, which I do now. Well, also, Kara Klink was one of the three people that I told my horrible story to.
00:35:45
That's right. So this is all very ground zero for us. For sure. Yeah. Love it. That's what you fucking find out on Rewind with Karen and Georgia.
00:35:55
All right Well should we get into your Is this the story where he has like a costume on and it terrible Oh God this one fucking scares the shit out of me Okay Let get into Karen story about Peter Curtin the vampire of Dusseldorf
00:36:14
Okay. The world is canceled. We can do this in 50 minutes. How long is that? 15 minutes? Okay.
00:36:19
We're going to now put this on this. You know how you can do it 1.5 speed or two speed?
00:36:24
Me? Oh, yeah. Like all podcasts? We're going to talk like that. So if you put it on times two,
00:36:31
it's going to be like times 10. Yeah. This week, I'm doing Peter Curtin, the vampire of Dusseldorf.
00:36:37
Yay. Have you heard of him? Do you know him? I don't. It's one of those things that you bookmark
00:36:42
a million times to maybe do and then you don't do it. There's another guy that's German that
00:36:48
that was called like the werewolf of something um that i thought this guy was and so i was i thought
00:36:56
it was going to be like i'm doing him hundreds you know that you are what if i was no no i'm not
00:36:59
mind-blowing um but then when i looked this up this guy is so fucked he's like albert fish level
00:37:07
fuck oh my god oh my god yeah um so it was exciting uh i mostly took this um most of the
00:37:15
information is from biography.com, which is such a good, when you get one of those articles,
00:37:21
they do it. Here's the thing. When you research these stories, you know, who's good. Every victim
00:37:25
is like on one, in one article, she's 10 years old in another one, she's 13 and another one,
00:37:30
she's nine. And it literally one time she's 17. The times change, the dates change, the ages
00:37:36
change. You get on biography.com and you're like, this is golden. There's a few biography.com,
00:37:42
Vanity Fair, Washington Post, New York Times, Lock and Load, Cut and Paste, Gunsandammo.com
00:37:53
and you have all the details. You're good to go. Martha Stewart living. She knows all the good killer info.
00:38:00
Yes, she does. Peter Curtin. Born in 1883. We're going all the way back. You were like, I'm not doing that.
00:38:08
I know. Immediately. my own nope right as i started doing that voice my sunburn flared and i was like no voices one of
00:38:16
your sunburn is like your psyche that's like stop it stop my sunburn is my dad's voice from my
00:38:24
childhood going hey show off time's over all my dad did my whole childhood jesse pop your dad is
00:38:31
jesse is he really show off time's over does he say stuff like that it sounds like just our friend
00:38:36
Jesse Poppies. Hey, hey. That and you're not better than me. You think you're better than me? You think you're better
00:38:42
than me? You think you're better than me? Okay. Okay. Born in 1883, Peter was the eldest of 13 children.
00:38:48
Don't do that. Both parents severe alcoholics. Don't do that either. Please don't do it. Father, a
00:38:54
brutal sadist who would beat his wife, beat the children viciously, molested his daughters, and would
00:39:00
sometimes gather the children and make them watch him have sex with their mother.
00:39:06
He was eventually arrested for raping his daughter multiple times. Oh, you think.
00:39:12
So, terrible, terrible kickoff for Peter Curtin. Very bad childhood. All bad. In 1902, when he was nine years old, he befriended a dog catcher who lived in the same apartment building as him.
00:39:25
Super chill dude, right? People who catch dogs and kill them? Right. Actually, this man would keep the dogs and torture them.
00:39:33
And he taught Peter all about it. Is this a weird, like, themed episode for you about dog catchers?
00:39:41
This is called Dog Anxiety by Karen Kilgareth. This is why I am surrounded by cats right now.
00:39:48
Yes, exactly. So, okay, so Peter having a terrible parent, and then also his father went off to jail.
00:39:54
So he basically bonded with the worst person he could ever be around. So terrible childhood, terrible outside influence.
00:40:04
when he was 11 years old, he told the police that he was playing on a raft with a schoolmate
00:40:10
and he pushed the boy into the water because he knew the boy couldn't swim. Oh, great.
00:40:15
And when another schoolmate saw this happen, the second boy jumped into the water to save
00:40:21
the first boy and Peter Curtin leaned down and pushed both their heads underwater and
00:40:27
drowned them both. And the police, when the police came upon it, they ruled it an accidental drowning.
00:40:33
my mouth is i'm not just being quiet because i'm not a quiet person i'm only quiet when i'm shocked
00:40:38
it's a jar that's fucked up the door is a jar and nine years uh no sorry 11 years old
00:40:46
it's so yeah it's like the age of my niece it's so creepily young wow um so then when he became
00:40:53
an adolescent um his fetish for animal cruelty developed into full-on bestiality um thanks to
00:41:01
the old dog catcher he began to have sex with barnyard animals and he then developed or progressed
00:41:10
into killing the animals while he was fucking them no no no we don't have to we don't have to
00:41:17
live there for very long let's move on uh he of course was always running away from home to get
00:41:24
away from his father's violence and sadism but then he always ended up having to come back when
00:41:29
he was 16 on his way out of town one time when he was running away, he met a woman. He lured her
00:41:34
into the local park where he raped her and strangled her. Okay. So in 1913, at the age of 20,
00:41:41
he's out on his own. He starts robbing, you know, he's doing a lot of petty crimes, I guess.
00:41:48
He starts breaking into taverns because there's a business on the downstairs, but then there living quarters on the upstairs So on May 25th 1913 he breaks into an establishment that owned by the Klein family So as the parents worked downstairs Peter Curtin snuck into their living quarters upstairs found 10 year old Christine Klein asleep in her bed raped or strangled or slit her throat then sat there and watched her bleed out
00:42:19
The next morning, he returned to the scene of the crime. he went to the pub across the street and he bought a drink and sat amongst the locals and
00:42:29
listened to them as they talked about what happened and speculated about who did it.
00:42:34
But how old was he at this point? 20. Okay. And at the time, an uncle in the Klein family and the father who owned the pub had been fighting
00:42:47
and the uncle had threatened his brother and said, like, I'm going to do something that
00:42:52
you're going to regret. So for a little while, everybody thought the uncle did it.
00:42:56
And he actually eventually was let off, but he was actually a main suspect in this murder.
00:43:04
Two months later, he broke into another tavern. And this time, three sisters were sleeping in their beds.
00:43:11
He went to the girl in the center bed. She was 17-year-old Gertrude Franken. And he strangled her while she slept.
00:43:18
he killed her and then snuck back out neither of her sisters woke up what a like specifically
00:43:26
specifically evil thing to do horrible to be like i'm letting them wake up to this
00:43:32
yeah purpose yeah on purpose no he he is a deranged mind it's it's all the worst things
00:43:41
combined because clearly he already was a sociopath but then he had the worst childhood
00:43:47
a human being could possibly have, the worst family a human being could possibly have,
00:43:52
the worst outside influence. Like, it just came at him from every direction. In 1913, he was arrested for arson.
00:44:02
So he's all about that McDonald triad, they call it, of hurting animals, arson. He probably was a bedwetter.
00:44:11
I saw that word today, too, and I was looking something up. Yeah, I think that's the person that made it up.
00:44:17
Okay. McDonald's? The McDonald's triad. Two cheeseburgers. Killing animals. Special sauce.
00:44:26
Wetting the bed. Light all that shit on fire. And then light it all on fire with a sign of fire.
00:44:30
And then light your bed. Jesus Christ. Okay. With each successive sentence, Peter Curtin's rage, this is a direct quote from the Biography
00:44:39
Channel page. As I'm reading this, I'm like, this is hard to read. Oh, because it's a cut and paste.
00:44:43
Peter Curtin's rage against society and his capacity for depravity increased so when he would go to jail
00:44:51
he'd get sent to solitary confinement which I'm sure is chill as fuck, right? well, when he was there
00:44:57
he was able to very deeply fantasize very vividly about the brutal sex acts that he enjoyed
00:45:06
and so then he would break prison rules intentionally so that he would get the longest sentence in solitary confinement because he liked it so much. It's disgusting.
00:45:17
Okay. He was called up for military service, um, at the start of world war one, but, uh, he deserted
00:45:24
and he was jailed. Um, he remained in prison until 1921, which was his longest sentence to date.
00:45:32
And, uh, when he got out of prison, he married an older woman, a sex worker who he knew who had
00:45:38
served time for killing her fiance. Her name was Augusta. They were a great pair. They found
00:45:44
real love. He became a molder. I think that so he maybe shaped crown moldings. Yeah. Castor plaster.
00:45:52
Castor plaster. They lived in relative normalcy for four years and then they moved back to Dusseldorf.
00:45:59
And right around that time rapes began being reported all over the city. Oh no. Okay.
00:46:06
So now he's going into it. We're in 1929 now, February 3rd. He meets a woman named Maria Kuhn. He ends up stabbing her 24 times with a pair of scissors. So this now he starts carrying a pair of scissors around with him at all times.
00:46:24
he is um not an organized killer like i think they're saying like he's he's an impulse killer
00:46:33
but he so he like he knows who he wants to kill and he plans that a little bit beforehand but he
00:46:40
doesn't plan anything it's like there it is and goes for it yeah but he knows what he's looking
00:46:43
but he's got his scissors in his pocket because he's like wants to be ready sure um okay so february
00:46:50
9th, 1929, five days after attacking Maria Kuhn, he strangles nine-year-old Rosa
00:46:55
Olegger, stabs her all over her entire body. He leaves, then returns to the body
00:47:02
hours later and sets it on fire. Monster. On February 13th, he stabs 45-year-old
00:47:08
mechanic Rudolph Scheer 20 times with his scissors. He returns to the scene of the crime
00:47:13
again and this time speaks to detectives about what happened. the german press uh obviously is covering all of this right um and at one point they find out
00:47:31
from police that the police are theorizing that this attacker is drinking the blood of his victims
00:47:36
um and so that's when the german press dubs him the vampire of dusseldorf um Now, at one point right around this time, a learning disabled man named Stausberg admitted to all of the vampire killings.
00:47:52
So he's committed to an asylum and the police have convinced themselves that the case is solved.
00:47:58
Six months after that. On August 11th, he asks a woman named Maria Hahn to a date at a pub.
00:48:08
He gets her alone, rapes her, strangles her, stabs her to death, buries her body in a cornfield.
00:48:14
He visits the body. Which is new for him, right? Burying a body? Yes. Because he's almost like, oh, I got away with this, so I'm going to be different about it.
00:48:21
Yes. It's escalating and he's like getting creative. Because someone got caught for his shit.
00:48:28
Maybe. It's almost smart that he, you know what I mean? Like it almost shows how smart he was.
00:48:33
Right. Where it's like, you didn't keep doing the same thing. You were like. He changed it up.
00:48:37
And he does it. He does it again, the same thing again later. He buries the body in the cornfield, goes and visits it a bunch of times.
00:48:47
And eventually sends an anonymous letter to the police revealing her burial spot.
00:48:54
So three days later, after he murders Maria Hahn on October 24th, 1929, he's in a suburb of Germany.
00:49:06
Two foster sisters are attending a fair together. 14 year old Louisa Lenson and five year old Gertrude Honecker.
00:49:14
And Peter Curtin sees them there by themselves. So he chats with them. He charms them.
00:49:21
He makes friends with them. At one point, he sends Louisa off for cigarettes, then leads five-year-old Gertrude into the bushes, strangles her and slits her throat.
00:49:30
So the next day, he attacks another woman. Her name's Gertrude Schult. She survives the attack, and she gives the police a description of her attacker.
00:49:42
She says he's a pleasant-looking man in his 40s. So now, after all these attacks, the entire city of Dusseldorf is in a panic.
00:49:52
In September of 1929, he rapes a house servant named Ida Router and then beats her to death with a hammer and leaves her body next to a river.
00:50:02
So he's changing his MO again. The next month, on October 12th, he meets another servant girl.
00:50:10
Her name was Elizabeth Dorier. And he asks her out. They walk along a river and he hits her in the head with a hammer.
00:50:17
He rapes her, beats her to death with the hammer and leaves her body there by the river.
00:50:21
A few days later, he attacks two more people with his hammer, but they survive. So basically now he's causing mass hysteria in Dusseldorf.
00:50:32
The press is going crazy and he loves it. He's eating it up. On November 9th, 1929, he sent a newspaper, a hand-drawn map that detailed the position of the body that he left his most recent victim.
00:50:49
a five-year-old girl named Gertrude Alberman. How many Gertrudes are there at this point?
00:50:53
There's three. I think there's more. There's three or four. Because it's Germany in the 30s and 20s.
00:51:01
Go on. He stabbed this five-year-old 35 times and then hit her under some rubble.
00:51:08
And then after he did that, he waited around. An angry mob formed when they found out
00:51:14
that another little girl had been murdered. and he joined the mob and protested along with them.
00:51:23
So it's that, to me, that like move right there is what I'm in it for because it feels like
00:51:31
if you took pictures of every crime scene of the people that were lined up, you could see the people who were responsible.
00:51:37
Like that thing of serial killers where they need to go back and they have to like revisit
00:51:43
and they mess with the cops and all that stuff. because they enjoy it. They're smarter. Yeah. And they are smart in a way. In a way. Yeah.
00:51:53
Because they're psychopaths and our brains would never think that way because we could never
00:51:58
imagine these things happening. Well, and also that thing that we learned where it's like,
00:52:03
they don't feel anxiety, so they don't get nervous. And we're always measuring other
00:52:07
people against how we feel. That guy looks nervous over there. Yeah. Where it's like,
00:52:11
no, they wouldn't be nervous. They would walk right up to you and be like, I've seen,
00:52:15
And so I would like to report something that I've seen. It's so dark. Oh, my God.
00:52:19
Can I tell you? Yeah, I'll tell you later. No, no, tell me. Well, I was in my murder.
00:52:24
I was reading this thing and they had like in one of the articles, it was like, here's
00:52:27
a riddle to see if someone's a psychopath or not. If they understand that, if they can get this riddle and fix it, then they're a psychopath
00:52:33
or a sociopath or whatever the fuck. And you want to hear it? Yeah. OK. A woman goes to her sister's funeral.
00:52:42
Have you heard this? No. OK. A woman goes to her sister's funeral. At the funeral, she meets a man and she falls in love with him, but she loses track of him
00:52:49
and he leaves. And she doesn't know who he is. She doesn't know his name. A couple of weeks later, she kills, that woman kills her brother.
00:52:57
Why did she kill her brother? Her brother? Mm-hmm. A woman goes to her sister's funeral, meets a man, falls madly in love with him, doesn't
00:53:05
know who he is. He leaves. A couple of weeks later, she kills her brother. Why? Because it's her father?
00:53:13
No. That's always the answer to what they... I know. That's what I thought too. And this means you're not a sociopath.
00:53:18
Okay. So she can see the man again. Whoa. Yeah. Because she's like, well, if he came to my sister's funeral, he knows us.
00:53:28
I really want to see him again. I'm going to kill my brother and see that again.
00:53:32
So the person who would be able to fix that, Stephen, Stephen now just got it. Stephen, was that your answer?
00:53:39
Stephen, no. Stephen's an extra not sociopath. Stephen's weeping on the floor. Because he didn't get it.
00:53:44
I'm not making it up to you, Stephen. I think you're just a sweet baby angel. So slow.
00:53:48
No, you're not slow. You're not a fucking... You know what I mean? Yes. That's crazy.
00:53:53
It the yawning trick or if you yawn and someone doesn yawn catch your yawn Okay but let just be careful with this trick It so fake But imagine if you standing there and then someone like turns to you with like their reptile eyes and goes like Oh because he want to see her again And then you like
00:54:08
Oh shit, I'm in the elevator with this person. Well, it's the same way when like, when, when we
00:54:12
did, when I, I think one of us told the whole thing of like, if you yawn and the person doesn't
00:54:15
catch your yawn, it's because they have no empathy. And like we, and that was like an episode 20,
00:54:19
whatever. And we still got people like, my cat didn't just yawn right now. And like, and I was
00:54:24
At the time I was like, Vince didn't yawn when I yawn. Yeah. So like, it's all, what's the word?
00:54:30
Party trick. However, it's a fun. It's fun times. It's a fun time. It's a good way to pass the time.
00:54:36
Also, if you're just really quick, if you are, and it probably won't count now, but if you're, if you're going through the old back catalog and you're say a full year behind, you can hold those corrections.
00:54:47
you can just keep those to yourself because you can we rest we assure you we've been corrected
00:54:54
we've seen dear zachary everyone every once in a while the people just tweet me trophy and i'll be
00:55:01
like we fucking know that's not even from 10 episodes ago we've done it i think we've done
00:55:08
it like 10 times whatever okay listen look listen look and listen okay listen sorry go um
00:55:15
okay so the angry mob is where i angry mom but now here's the thing so the police noticed this
00:55:23
time that the handwriting that was in the letter of the woman that was buried at the cornfield
00:55:29
believe maria was her name it matches the map that someone this anonymous person sent of five
00:55:36
year old gertrude's burial site and so the cops are like hold on a second these like they're putting
00:55:42
it all together. So finally in 1931, knowing the police were close to catching him, Peter Curtin
00:55:50
confesses his entire murder spree to his wife, Augusta. She's like, cool. She's like, damn.
00:55:58
Um, and oh my God, he tells her, you need to turn me in and you can get a reward. Like,
00:56:08
let's do this so that you're taken care of so that my bad behavior doesn't fuck you over,
00:56:12
which is super weird. Such a weird... Like, he really loved his wife and stayed loyal to her.
00:56:18
And, I mean, not really because he was doing terrible things. but it's also like that he had a conscience.
00:56:23
Or he cared. Conscience enough to, like, tell her. Yeah. And most guys who, like,
00:56:31
make out with someone at a party and cheat on their whatever, don't tell. Yeah. He was like, listen.
00:56:38
He's like, hey, Augusta, I'm a real wild card. Guess what? You're not going to believe what I'm about to tell you.
00:56:44
Ever heard of 10 girls named Gertrude? Killed them all. Damn, that was me. You know how everyone's just screaming at the top of their lungs in the street all day and every day?
00:56:54
It's kissing me. It's me. Okay, so once he was under arrest, he provides an astonishingly detailed account of his string of crimes to Professor Carl Berg,
00:57:06
who is a distinguished psychologist who later published a confession in a book called The Sadist.
00:57:10
curtain claimed 79 individual acts of crime in all he went to great lengths to convince the
00:57:18
authorities of his guilt his memory was nearly photographic oh my god so his recollection of
00:57:24
each offense um provided him with great pleasure uh and in his trial which uh started on april 13th
00:57:34
1931 in Dusseldorf. He was brought up on nine charges of murder, seven attempted murder.
00:57:42
He initially retracted his extensive confession, claiming that he'd only said that to ensure his wife's financial
00:57:49
security. But then there was such an overwhelming amount of evidence that he eventually just pled guilty.
00:57:56
It took the jury 90 minutes to return a verdict of guilty on all counts. He received nine death sentences and
00:58:03
He was executed by guillotine on July 2nd, 1931 in Cologne. And during his trial, I think this is very interesting.
00:58:12
He was made to sit in a cage in the courtroom so that the family members of the victims didn't attack and kill him.
00:58:20
Yes. Damn. Peter Curtin, the vampire of Dusseldorf and the monster of Dusseldorf.
00:58:26
That was fucking good, Karen. Thanks. Considering probably never going to go to Dusseldorf, Germany, too.
00:58:31
I'm glad you did it on the podcast and not at a live show. That's right. You know?
00:58:36
You never know, though. You don't know. All these Germans were like, ugh, nuh-uh.
00:58:41
Octung? Octoon, baby. Yeah. Okay, we're back. I remember seeing the photo that belongs to this story of his costume as Get Up.
00:58:56
Yeah. And then having nightmares for the rest of my life about it. Yeah. It's so much scarier than, it's like Leatherface, kind of, right?
00:59:03
Yes. And the fact that it's like 1913. So we're not talking about 60s. We're not talking about the horrible 70s.
00:59:13
It's just like this very early like, oh, no, it reminds me. It's not a copycat. Like this guy is actually that fucking psychotic on his own.
00:59:21
He comes up with his own fucking ways to be psychotic. Yeah. He is a true original.
00:59:25
Yeah. Oh, I was going to say it reminds me of the child murderer from Guernsey that, remember, he had this.
00:59:33
I think that's what I was thinking of. With the spikes? Yeah. He had the spikes in the mask?
00:59:37
Yeah. Yeah, that's that guy. Okay. But very similar vibe. Similar vibe, yeah. It's old-fashioned, and we all like to think that people, way back when, were all making
00:59:48
bread together and getting along. Right. And it like know that this thing the inhumanity has been inhumanity for a very long time I mean actually the humane part is a really short part of humanity actually It been inhumane a lot longer The civilized thing is literally civilization
01:00:05
Very new. Very new. Very new. Cool. Any updates, I'm guessing? None for this, no.
01:00:11
Speaking of fucked up civilization, here's another classic. Yeah, now we're going to speed ahead
01:00:16
to where it's also not civilized. This is George's story about Jeffrey MacDonald.
01:00:25
All right. I'm just going to get started on this one, even though I have some thoughts on it,
01:00:30
but I think it's best to just like, let's get into this. Okay. Um, you ready for the murder
01:00:38
of the family of Jeffrey McDonald? Oh yes. Do you know this one? This is the one I thought
01:00:45
the other one was. Yes. This is the one I thought the, um, the, uh, doctor. Yeah.
01:00:52
Is this guy Dr. 2? Sam Shepard? Yes, yes, yes. This is not Sam Shepard's family, but yes, this guy is a...
01:00:58
Yes, yes. Yes. They're very similar. They're very similar. Okay, awesome. So I'm going to just get into this and then...
01:01:05
Because this is... All right. Jeffrey McDonald. In high school, he's voted most popular and most likely to succeed.
01:01:12
He's senior class president, captain of the fucking football team, hot, well-liked, popular
01:01:18
dude. in the made for TV movie Fatal Vision Karen he is played by a young Gary Cole
01:01:27
Gary Cole went on to those TPS reports by Friday office space I'm going to have to go ahead and have you come in on Saturday
01:01:38
this is what I was going to ask you what he was from because I didn't know and I knew you'd know
01:01:42
mostly office space I mean that's his greatest role of all time except for Fatal Vision
01:01:47
Except for Fatal Vision. Where he plays a young Jeffrey McDonald. After high school, he gets a scholarship to fucking Princeton.
01:01:55
And while he's there... So jealous. You think he's fucking better than us? What do you know, Steph?
01:01:59
Oh. Gets a scholarship to Princeton. And then while he's there, he marries his high school sweetheart, Colette Stevenson.
01:02:07
She is played by Wendy Shaw. Okay. From Fatal Vision. So you watched Fatal Vision is what you're telling me.
01:02:14
Yeah, but I also knew that you would have questions and I would need... And I just like also don't ever know who's going to strike your fancy.
01:02:21
True. So you just want to be ready. Yeah. So I have a couple more characters. Love it.
01:02:24
All right. After high school, he goes to Princeton, marries Colette Stevenson. He goes to medical school and then he joins the army.
01:02:35
He becomes a Green Beret captain, which is a big deal, and a doctor in the army.
01:02:40
So by 26 years old, the couple, along with their two daughters, Kimberly, age five and Kristen, age two, moved to the prestigious Fort Bragg, North Carolina, which is an army base, but it's also open to the public.
01:02:55
Okay. Which I didn't know that. Yeah, it's a very famous army base. Right. Yeah.
01:02:58
26 years old and you've done all this stuff. You must be a sociopath. No. All right.
01:03:05
So here is his story. I'm going to start with his story. it. It's a cold rainy night on February 16th, 1970. They are in their ground floor apartment,
01:03:16
four and a half month old pregnant Colette and two year old Kristen are asleep in the master
01:03:21
bedroom. And Kimberly is asleep in her room. She's five. Jeffrey goes to try to go to bed.
01:03:27
And he finds that Kristen had wet his side of the bed in the master bedroom. So he brings her back
01:03:33
to her own bed and he goes to sleep on the couch because he doesn't want to disturb everyone and
01:03:37
make the bed again. All right. So he's asleep on the couch and then he is awoken while he's on the
01:03:43
couch by Colette shouting, Jeff, why are they doing this to me? And Kimberly screaming, daddy,
01:03:49
daddy, daddy. He opens his eyes on the couch and sees four figures standing over him.
01:03:55
A black man in a fatigued jacket with Sergeant stripes on the sleeve, two white men and a woman
01:04:02
wearing a floppy hat over stringy blonde hair. She's holding a flickering candle in front of her face
01:04:07
and is chanting, acid is groovy, kill the pigs. Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Jeffrey begins to rise,
01:04:16
and the black man brings a club crashing down on his head. A second later, McDonald feels a sharp pain
01:04:21
on the right side of his chest, and he looks down and he sees an ice pick blade that had been stabbed into him.
01:04:29
He tries to wrestle the guys, And despite the fact that he's a Green Beret, which one of their things is to be trained in clandestine guerrilla force, they're still able to fight him and pull his pajama top over his head and onto his wrist.
01:04:41
So he's got his arms up with the pajama top is holding his wrist together and he's trying to fend them off.
01:04:47
But they keep trying to stab him. And then the black man keeps clubbing him. And finally, he he falls unconscious at the steps of the hallway that lead to the bedrooms.
01:04:58
So he had been overpowered. Overpowered. Okay. In this vicious struggle. With hippies.
01:05:05
With drug crazed hippies. Acid heads. Acid head. Kill the pigs. Kill the pigs. Acid heads.
01:05:12
As they yell. As they are known to yell. When he comes to Karen, he's on the stairs.
01:05:19
He gets up and stumbles to the master bedroom and finds Colette sprawled on the floor with the handle of the knife sticking out of her chest.
01:05:26
he pulls the knife away and he throws it aside and he covers her body with his pajama top that
01:05:31
he had removed from his wrist at that point and tries to give her mouth to mouth what a good guy
01:05:37
right wait okay what no no go ahead no yeah you're right you're correct that how gross i mean if
01:05:43
somebody's been stabbed to give him mouth to mouth yeah that's not gonna work is that what you're
01:05:47
thinking yeah and i just don't think most people do that right well he's a surgeon too oh no no he
01:05:53
should know whether or not that wouldn help work Yeah Right Yes OK So Colette has been struck at least six times in the head with a blunt object
01:06:05
One of them causes a fracture to her skull. She had nine deep knife wounds at the front of her neck, seven deep knife wounds to her
01:06:13
chest and 21 puncture wounds to her chest area. Her chest is also bruised from what looked like an object that had been thrust into her
01:06:21
chest. on the headboard of the master bedroom, someone had used one of their fingers
01:06:27
to write the word pig in her blood. McDonald, Jeffrey McDonald. I kind of hate saying their last name
01:06:35
instead of their first name because it makes, you know, like saying Jeffrey makes it so much more personal.
01:06:40
Do you know what I mean? Like in all of these murder stories we do. Yeah. So Jeffrey pulls the knife out,
01:06:46
puts it to the side and then tries to keep her mouth to mouth. In her bedroom, Kristen,
01:06:51
who was two years old. She has 22 gaping knife wounds to her upper back, four wounds to her chest, and one to her neck.
01:07:03
There's 15 shallow puncture wounds found on her chest, as well as multiple cuts on both of her hands.
01:07:09
Like she's trying to defend herself. I know, it's just fucked up. In her bed, Kimberly had been struck
01:07:16
at least three times in the head with the blunt object, and her skull showed multiple fractures.
01:07:23
Steven looks like he's going to pass the fuck out right now. It just doesn't make sense.
01:07:27
It's like, why would any hippies or people, any otherwise, of all the things you want to do,
01:07:33
like you want to rob people, you want to murder, whatever. And I mean, I just got done talking about
01:07:39
the vampire of Dusseldorf who did exactly this, but it's a rare person who can stab a baby multiple times.
01:07:46
And the breaking and entering thing, like not being a sadistic child killer, not being a rapist or a pedophile. And these things just
01:07:54
happen in the house seems so weird. And this is why I'm starting with, so I just wanted to start,
01:07:59
right. Which is, this is a great place to say, like, this is the story he told. All right. So
01:08:04
like this, this story is so fucked up and insane. And I've heard it so many times. And when I finally
01:08:09
decided to do it, I'm not doing it in a way that's like, here are the facts. And this is what
01:08:14
happened, which you can, which are incredible and interesting and crazy. And there's a great
01:08:18
episode of Generation Y where they cover this case and it's, it's, it's point by point and
01:08:23
it's really good. And they're coming from the same place that I am, which is that he clearly
01:08:27
fucking did it. Yeah. So here's his story. I'm not going to get into all the insane facts of
01:08:33
the trials that happen. I'm going to go in, I'm going to do his story, what happened, then what
01:08:39
is most likely the real story. Okay. So this is why I'm saying it so dramatically, which I normally
01:08:44
don't do. This is such a fucking bullshit made up story. Yeah. I can tell with your, there's a,
01:08:48
there's a hint of sarcasm, right? And then there's some drama in it that I know that you hate this
01:08:53
person. Right. And what's essentially, what's, yeah, I'm so bad at, I can't lie. If I hate you,
01:08:59
you'll fucking know. Um, what's so incredible about this is that there's still an argument
01:09:04
about whether or not he did it, which I think when I get done with what really happened,
01:09:08
you won't fucking believe it. So, Kimberly's in bed. Eight to ten deep knife wounds
01:09:14
are found on the right side of her neck. So, Colette, Kimberly, and Kristen are all dead.
01:09:21
Then, once he wakes up, finds them dead, Jeffrey calls the operator and says, we've been stabbed.
01:09:28
People are dying. People are dying. Yeah. Not my wife and my children. We've all been stabbed.
01:09:36
People are dying. Some people are dying. we yeah it is so fascinating when they break that stuff down of like yeah all those micro you know
01:09:45
uh micro expression people that know the word and we've talked about that in other things
01:09:50
definitely where when you use certain words and what it means yeah the word choice like even just
01:09:56
the breakdown of you know patsy or patsy ramsey's 911 call about john bonnet and the the ransom
01:10:03
letter quote unquote of john for john bonnet fascinating and this is another one of those
01:10:07
um there there is a breakdown of his call as well as when he is interrogated later of every single
01:10:16
thing he says and it's fucking incredible and i wish i could have included the whole thing but it
01:10:19
would have been three episodes so i'm not okay but let's just do it right okay let's just you know
01:10:25
what let's just go for it um when they arrive they find the sole survivor jeffrey mcdonald
01:10:32
lying with his arm around Colette in the master bedroom unconscious. So like he went and called, then he fucking positioned himself next to his wife.
01:10:39
He had sustained bruising over his eye, a superficial stab wound in the arm and on his abdomen in the form of an upside down V.
01:10:49
Several small puncture wounds were present on the upper left chest. None of his wounds required suturing.
01:10:56
A neat and clean stab wound was located between two ribs on the right side of his chest and resulted in a collapsed lung.
01:11:04
Oh. Right. Which is interesting. As they were gurning him out, he whispers to the medics, four of them.
01:11:12
She kept saying, acid is groovy. Kill the pigs. Like he tells them that dramatically.
01:11:18
Right. All right. So then I wrote, now reality. So by the time the sun had risen the next day, the Army's Criminal Investigation Division,
01:11:26
CID, which we're calling it now, they didn't even believe Jeffrey's story. Aside from his minor injuries, there was no sign of an ice pick puncture on him,
01:11:36
despite the fact that he said he had been stabbed by an ice pick. Also, there's just a single fiber from his ripped pajamas.
01:11:43
A single fiber was found in the living room where the struggle had ensued. That's all they found was a single strand of his pajamas from ripping.
01:11:54
However, in the bedrooms, there were dozens of his pajama fibers, including several found beneath Colette.
01:12:00
Others under Kimberly's sheets in her bedroom and two more in Kristen's room. One lodged under her fingernail.
01:12:07
Oh, no. His pajamas, which he had said he had stumbled into Colette's, the wife's room,
01:12:13
taken his pajamas off and covered her with it. So he wouldn't even have it when he went to the kid's room.
01:12:18
Yeah. He claims he performed CPR on all three of them, but none of their mouths were open
01:12:25
and his daughters were tucked into bed and lying on their sides. And he's a fucking surgeon.
01:12:30
So he would know that that's not how you get CPR. He originally claimed he didn't wash up before making the call to the police,
01:12:36
but there's no blood on the phone he used to make the call. But there was blood in the sink drain.
01:12:42
Oh. Then the CID found a blood smudged brand new issue of Esquire magazine in the living room.
01:12:49
So an article in the Esquire magazine details the drug crazed hippies who had murdered Sharon Tate just seven months before that.
01:13:02
According to investigators, the article contained 18 similarities to the murders of Colette and the girls,
01:13:08
including a blonde, candle-carrying hippie woman. You know what's funny? I was thinking Patty Hearst
01:13:14
because there's that famous picture when Patty Hearst... With her hat on? Did she wear a hat into the bank?
01:13:23
I can't remember. I just see her with a pulled-down low hat, but she did have a wig on.
01:13:30
So she had like, but I guess it wasn't blonde hair, but there was a black man with an army jacket.
01:13:36
Oh my God, Karen. That's what I was thinking of. But I mean, it's all the same thing
01:13:40
where it's like, but I don't, was that 1970? Was it before or after? Maybe he's psychic.
01:13:45
Anyway, it's like, clearly it's just like these three things have been in the media
01:13:49
and they were, he was just like. Or like, I drive around and there's a hippie. There's a, like,
01:13:53
it's the thing of like, and I read a lot about Reddit things where it was like, the acid is groovy.
01:13:59
Sure, that's something we said. Like, you know, acid is so groovy. We said groovy.
01:14:03
Kill the Pigs was a totally different sect of people. Those were the crazy left-wing, you know,
01:14:10
fuck the police people who weren't the same as the hippies. So it's something that like a straight-laced military man
01:14:16
would be like, here's what hippies say. Here's what drug-crazed hippies say. Especially someone that's reading up on the Manson murders.
01:14:22
Because that death to the pigs or whatever, that thing was a part of it too. Someone said,
01:14:27
when they were talking about that in the Reddit article, they were like, it's like if today
01:14:32
someone were trying to blame hipsters on something and said, they kept saying the first album was better.
01:14:39
The first album was the best. And it's like, nobody fucking really says that. That's what you think we say.
01:14:44
It's just this like insanity, which I really love because I hadn't even thought about that.
01:14:49
Okay. They found that the word pig that was written in blood on the headstand had been written and using a surgical glove, which were found in the
01:14:59
house and the weapons that all come from inside the house. And then the weapons were thrown in a bush right outside the house, almost like someone
01:15:07
opened the back door. And like if there were four people, at least, who were committing something, they'd all
01:15:13
run out and put their fucking weapons under the same bush. Yeah. No. Pre-agreed bush before they went in.
01:15:20
Put it down and walk away. Guys, this is weapon bush. please weapon bush Steven that's the name of the episode
01:15:27
this is our new that's what I'm going to call it okay going on under a bush and the
01:15:35
okay so however listen there's always a however you know got to someone made a shirt that just says however
01:15:45
on it really it makes me so happy so of course many missed not of course this okay cut that out steep no don't cut that out many mistakes were made during the investigation
01:15:55
from failing to seal off the crime scene so 26 people trampled through it before it was finally
01:16:00
secured which is a kind of a normal thing in the 70s i feel like yes that happened all the time and
01:16:04
they didn't know it was happening they showed up it's pouring rain they run in they see bodies they
01:16:08
have to take one out it's there's going to be a lot of people coming through yes but the fucking
01:16:13
ambulance driver stole jeffrey mcdonald's wallet from his desk what yeah no you wink
01:16:20
you oinked it right off the fucking desk wait it's is this an ambulance driver not on the
01:16:26
on the army base i don't think so i think they just i i don't know it was an army base but
01:16:32
there's a hospital that's crazy i don't know who it was but bold move ambulance driver walking with
01:16:37
a gurney you know what i mean that guy had a problem yeah like being fired from his job
01:16:42
hopefully and like the next day the garbage man they like we're like yeah go ahead and take the
01:16:47
trash away oh the trash out no let's put a hold on that nope they also allowed ncis would have
01:16:55
never made that mistake starring mark harman whenever i think of mark harman i think it's
01:17:01
the um what's the olympic diver or what's the guy from greg luganus the one who hit his head
01:17:07
yeah what's the guy from star wars his name luke no no his father what's his uh no what's what's luke's name in real life mark hamill
01:17:19
you say hammond i always think it's mark uh harman i think it's him oh oh yeah it's not
01:17:26
there's similar there's similar white guys but this is why i tell you the names of people
01:17:30
who are playing that's right and ask you to fill in you run it all by me no idea um
01:17:36
Trash, McDonald home 40 sets of fingerprints Just were allowed to be destroyed And a bloody footprint
01:17:45
Was lost in the process of removing it Which I just think of some guy Like slipping, like it's a banana peel
01:17:51
You know But he trying to take a footprint And then he like Someone knocks into him Get those marbles out of here mr bean it just mr bean get those marbles mr bean will never process a crime scene again no we not making that mistake again never again
01:18:11
sometimes i'm so busy talking that i don't hear the funny thing believe me so after that's all i do
01:18:17
still the military they formally charged jeffrey mcdonald with the murder on with the murders on
01:18:27
may 1st 1970 but at this point an 18 year old drug addict hippie in town known to police named helena
01:18:35
stokely she's known to wear get this a floppy hat a blonde wig and like the same kind of look
01:18:43
drug addict hippie. She confesses that herself and various people around town did the crime.
01:18:50
So she says, oh, I was really high on mescaline and acid that night. I think we were there. I
01:18:55
remember these things from it. Here's three accomplices that I think was there with me.
01:19:00
One of them turned out to be in jail while this was happening. But she really throws a wrench in
01:19:04
the whole thing. The wig and the floppy hat, it heights the 70s. You know who else owned that?
01:19:09
colette oh no so like there's just no it just fucks this investigation up forever right right
01:19:18
and i wonder if that was intentional well he made up a story and he got really fucking lucky that's
01:19:25
what i think happened i think so he made up a or did or could he have made up a story and then
01:19:30
given a wig and a hat to a person in town that would have you know considering he was a doctor
01:19:37
and he was also like saw civilians, he might've already been aware of her at some point.
01:19:42
Oh yeah. Maybe she came in with someone, who knows. But from what I can tell, she's a really unhealthy woman,
01:19:48
a girl, drug addict, mentally ill. Was she in her teens? She was 18, really not doing well.
01:19:55
And so she kind of seemed like someone who needed and wanted attention, not in a mean way, but in a desperate way.
01:20:02
Right. So this whole thing got tangled up. Yeah. She got tangled up in it, which made his credibility, which just made him seem more credible, which made people question.
01:20:13
Introduced more doubt. Yeah. That's the thing. Yes. Okay. Okay. So that means based on everything,
01:20:21
the charges were dismissed the following October because of insufficient evidence. And a couple of
01:20:27
months after the murder charges were dropped, super hot, charismatic, really charming Jeffrey
01:20:32
mcdonald appears on he becomes famous oh he becomes like the sam shepherd which is that
01:20:38
everyone loves him and knows him and oh my god he got his poor guy his wife and two children
01:20:42
died and you know that kind of thing um he appears on the late night program the dick cavett show
01:20:50
um although his celebrity comes from his family's brutal murders he doesn't seem like he gives a
01:20:59
shit. He's laughing. The audience is laughing. He tells jokes. He criticizes the army investigators.
01:21:04
No fucking way. He has no idea. Like he is so charming and sociopathic that he doesn't
01:21:12
understand how bad this looks. You know, one of those people that you're like, they love me.
01:21:17
Well, this is, that's what Diane Downs did. Remember? Yes. It's exactly that. And then when
01:21:23
they talk about like as if everyone's super concerned about them only right yeah he doesn't
01:21:29
bring up the fact that you know the her colette's parents have lost their daughter their only daughter
01:21:36
and her only child and grandchildren he's being fucking mr funny man over here and he's like
01:21:41
celebrating that he got uh let off on this amazing it's disgusting but what's great about this
01:21:49
is that up until this point, Colette's mother and her stepfather, who I think raised Colette, he's in it hard,
01:21:55
Alfred and Mildred Kasab. How much do you love Alfred and Mildred? You want to know who plays them?
01:22:01
Who? Okay, Alfred is played by Carl Malden. Yes. Yeah. Streets of San Francisco.
01:22:07
I was raised on it. Yeah. The best TV show of all time. Is that the one where there's like all these couples
01:22:12
and they all hang out in there? No, that's not. That's Love Boat. no what's the one from like the night the san francisco 90s one 90s yeah
01:22:22
gay gay people and straight people and they're like it's like oh oh that's um the yes that's the almost out my pan books um yes yeah yeah yeah something something
01:22:36
no this was literally from the 70s it was michael douglas and carl malden detectives
01:22:42
San Francisco driving around shooting at people and like as they drive around just randomly
01:22:48
so they're murderers yes but cops um and as they drive around it's just like you're I you get to
01:22:54
look at it's video footage it's film footage actually of my childhood because it's just like
01:22:59
oh yeah that's that used to be there that was there it's the most fun tv show to watch whenever
01:23:04
I see an old la like you know the one where they drive around town everyone go watch Los Angeles
01:23:08
plays itself. It's such an amazing movie documentary. Have you seen it? It's like a
01:23:12
three hour documentary, perfectly narrated about Los Angeles playing itself in movies.
01:23:18
Wow. So houses that are played in what movie backgrounds that are pretending to be China or,
01:23:26
you know, downtown is supposed to be this thing, but you can tell it's not because of this landmark.
01:23:31
I can't wait. I've never heard of that. Are you fucking, I have to see it. Listen,
01:23:35
Don't do drugs. Get high and watch Los Angeles by itself. And I'll see you in four fucking hours.
01:23:41
It's unbelievable. I gotta see it. I've watched it eight times and I've never gotten past an hour because it's just so involved
01:23:49
and you fall asleep. Anyway. Carl Malden. Mildred is played by Eva Marie Saint Eva Marie Saint Yeah My dad pretended he saw her It was one of my favorite Oh wait Did he pretend he saw her when he was carrying her bags on a ship and then he married your mom
01:24:08
No, I know. I talk about my father too much. He's really hilarious. Marty. Let's talk about my dad and your dad.
01:24:14
Right? We were pulling out of Vons and this woman walked in front of the car who was wearing clear plastic high heel shoes.
01:24:25
there was a there was a real um angeline feel to this woman um bit broke down trying to be pretty
01:24:32
later on in life in no way am i criticizing her i'm there with her but as she passed the front of
01:24:38
the car my dad goes eva marie saint and pretended to recognize her and it's i it was that happened
01:24:45
four years ago and i'm still laughing about it that would have made her day if she thought that
01:24:48
someone reckoned like but except for if she if she heard the sarcasm in his voice oh he it was a bit
01:24:55
larry larry jim why do i always call him larry jim jim jim you think that i'm related to the
01:25:02
silverman's and i'm not is that their dad's name i know it could be oh okay so the parents are
01:25:09
outspoken supporters of jeffrey through the whole trial everything alfred even said that if he had
01:25:15
another daughter he would still want Jeffrey as his son-in-law which is creepy um but once the
01:25:20
charges are dropped and he starts seeing all these little fucking creepy things he's like go fuck
01:25:24
yourself oh because the like the psychopath mask finally came down finally yes so he realizes that
01:25:31
Jeffrey had been lying to him about so many things including Jeffrey told him finally he was like get
01:25:38
off my back man here's what happened myself and several other green berets we tracked down one of
01:25:43
the killers and we put him we killed him they told me killed one of the killers just to be like
01:25:48
we took care of it leave us alone leave me alone um so because of his crazy fucking like this guy
01:25:56
i want like i'm pretty sure that vince is going to be like growing up to be this guy and it made
01:26:04
me like kind of love him where it was not vince the other guy obviously i love it yes yes he was
01:26:09
just like dogged, became an investigator, found everything wrong with his fucking trial transcripts, everything.
01:26:17
He searched the house himself. He was a badass. This is the dad, Colette's dad. This is the stepdad.
01:26:22
Stepdad. Who I think was with him forever. They're like one of those cute old couples.
01:26:26
Anyways. So with him and the formation of the CID reinvestigation team, they indict Jeffrey.
01:26:36
By then he was living a lavish life in California as a civilian doctor. He's like fucking chicks.
01:26:41
He's got a yacht. He's got a lot of money. He's famous because he's the doctor who didn't kill people, maybe.
01:26:45
In 1974, Jeffrey is brought before the grand jury in North Carolina, and he's indicted
01:26:51
in all three counts of murder in 1975. Whoa. And a trial lasted over six weeks. The government introduced
01:26:59
over a thousand evidentiary items. And at the trial, Helena denied the chick, the crazy drug chick,
01:27:07
young person. It was like, I wasn't there. I don't know what happened. Denied everything. Later,
01:27:12
she's diagnosed with schizoid personality. Yeah. Which is sad. McDonnell, Jeffrey McDonnell is
01:27:18
convicted of all three counts of murder in less than seven hours. Wow. Yeah. All right. So let's
01:27:23
talk about what really fucking happened. Okay. Ready for the same story as above. Yeah. As the
01:27:28
beginning, but what actually happened. And here's why we know, and this is fucking crazy. Okay.
01:27:33
First of all, a lot of this is from the McDonald case facts dot com by Phil Callahan.
01:27:39
This guy is just a civilian. He's a fucking web sleuth. And he's like dedicated his life to this.
01:27:46
Yeah. And he is like, here's what happened based on the fact that and this is so crazy to me.
01:27:52
All four members of the household, Jeffrey, Colette, Kristen and Kimberly, they all had different blood types, which is a statistic.
01:28:02
and statistical anomaly. Okay. Like in a family that doesn't fucking happen. Right.
01:28:07
And that means that they were able to trace what happened room by room because of the blood types.
01:28:12
Oh, I just got the weirdest chills. You know what it made me think of when I wrote this down?
01:28:16
So, you know, like in like Who Framed Roger Rabbit or those like old timey things
01:28:20
are like, here's how to do the two step. And they put like a footprint here and a footprint here.
01:28:24
And then one goes back on over here. It's like that with blood. Oh my God. Are you ready for this?
01:28:29
Yeah. It's fucked up. Okay. It's a fucked up dance. So here's what really happened.
01:28:35
I mean, according to everything. In the early morning hours, February 17th, 1970,
01:28:43
Colette and Jeffrey McDonald get into a heated argument in the master bedroom. Jeffrey at the time was taking amphetamines to lose weight.
01:28:51
Seventies. What were those? Meth. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. And hadn't slept for 24 hours at least.
01:28:58
So he got out of his goddamn mind. Right. In the previous weeks, Colette had been upset that Jeffrey was planning on leaving for a long time to be the doctor for the army boxing team, even though she was having a really difficult pregnancy and she was going to night school for psychology.
01:29:16
So this chick was a badass and he was kind of a narcissist. So his wife not wanting to stay at home and be, you know, him having to stay home and take care of his kids at night when she went to school, do the dishes, put them to bed.
01:29:30
Didn't work for him. Did not jibe. Yeah. Is that the right? Yeah. Let's get that word wrong.
01:29:35
Yeah. Also, the issue with their daughter wetting the bed was a big deal with them.
01:29:41
He got really pissed off about it. She'd even brought it up in one of her psychology classes.
01:29:45
And I was just guessing maybe he got more angry that night that she wet his side of the bed.
01:29:52
Right. Right. Like not just her bed She wet the side of his side of the bed Something fucking snapped And at some point jeffrey punches colette in the face who then and this is all based on blood evidence as well as the um fibers from
01:30:08
the pajamas right uh colette grabs a hairbrush hits jeffrey above his left eye these are also
01:30:16
based on the bruises and shit sorry they wrestle and jeffrey's pajama top gets torn in multiple
01:30:23
places and then he hits colette in the face a second time and grabs what we remember as the
01:30:30
wooden club from earlier what that turns out to be is that uh there was this wooden this piece of
01:30:38
wood holding up a corner portion of the master bed footboard because you know how sometimes it
01:30:42
gets wobbly you jam something underneath there he fucking grabs whatever that is when he's on the
01:30:47
floor and he fucking thrusts it like jabs at her uh of one end of that into her chest and that's
01:30:54
where that cruise came from like a wooden stake because she probably had something she was trying
01:30:59
to hit with him so he couldn't come close to her oh okay yeah exactly like a wooden stake
01:31:03
but he doesn't puncture her he just like he just hits her with it hits her with it like a javelin
01:31:08
so at this point then kimberly the daughter enters the room here's her parents fighting maybe
01:31:15
and Jeffrey turns around and hits her with the club on the left side of her face.
01:31:22
Colette then screams, Jeff, why are you doing this? Which is what he said he heard from
01:31:27
the couch, but it's so loud that he thinks maybe the neighbors heard it. So he includes it in his
01:31:34
story, but he turns it into Jeff, why are they doing this? And then Kimberly falls into the
01:31:40
floor near the entrance of the master bedroom. And we know this because there's her blood spattered
01:31:44
around that area. Colette then grabs a knife from her side table and she slashes Jeffrey's abdomen,
01:31:52
resulting in that upside down V laceration on his abdomen. And then Jeffrey retaliates with
01:31:58
two blows with the club to Colette's head, knocking her unconscious. At this point,
01:32:05
Jeffrey strips the bed, picks Kimberly up, who's unconscious, picks her from the bed sheet and
01:32:10
carries her back to her bedroom. He places her into a sleeping position. He, at that point,
01:32:16
leaves 14 pajama threads under her bed covers when he does that. A 20.5 inch yarn of his bed
01:32:25
clothes is found on top of Kimberly's pillow. And then this is, you know, he at this point,
01:32:31
supposedly would have had his pajamas off by then. So the fact that his pajama threads are all over
01:32:35
these places shows that this is what he actually did because they should be underneath her even if
01:32:38
he did come in there. He then uses the club to strike Kimberly with two blows on the right side
01:32:44
of her face. And when he does that, you know, he picked the club up and hit her twice, casts blood
01:32:50
onto the ceiling in those blows. And that blood had both Kimberly and Colette's blood mixed in,
01:32:58
which means we know that he hit her first, hit Colette first. Then he covers Kimberly's body
01:33:04
with her blanket and bed covers. Then he gets a knife from the kitchen and he leaves behind minute
01:33:11
traces of blood all over the kitchen. And the pattern shows that he was pacing the kitchen.
01:33:19
One thinks trying to figure out what the fuck to do. Grabs a knife, paces the kitchen back and
01:33:24
forth in a panic. Probably they don't think it was premeditated. Probably was like, what do I do
01:33:30
now? What do I do now? What do I do now? Then he goes into Kristen's room and this is the other
01:33:35
daughter who's sleeping, not part of this at all. And he stabs her in the chest as she lay on her
01:33:42
bed. And the wounds indicate that Kristen was probably sleeping at this point in her pajama top.
01:33:48
The wounds indicate that it had been lifted before she was stabbed. And the position of the wounds
01:33:54
show that it was almost as if he was trying to identify the location of vital organs.
01:34:00
because she got stabbed in these specific places that a surgeon would know would bear
01:34:06
the most, but that would do the most damage. Right. Like he's trying to be efficient in killing his daughter.
01:34:14
Right. At some point she wakes up to try to shield herself because she had cuts and bruises on
01:34:20
her hands. And because of that, a pajama fiber is found under her fingernail. he then stabs her in the back and places her places his daughter back into a sleeping position
01:34:33
on her bed and he places her favorite pink security blanket in her arms can you fucking deal
01:34:40
he exits the room and then when he's he's like bringing the bedsheets to go maybe wash them
01:34:46
but here's colette stagger into kristen's room he hears her go in there to try to protect her
01:34:52
daughter, follows her in with the club and he hits Colette in the face. Colette places her arms in
01:34:58
front of her face in an attempt to ward off the blows and her arms, which is why her arms are
01:35:04
bruised and shattered. And she gets hit twice more. Um, then he sets, so then he sets his club,
01:35:14
the club down on Kristen's bed, which is why there are traces of Kimberly's blood on the bed
01:35:21
because the club he had hit Kimberly with was then placed on the bed. Isn't that insane?
01:35:26
You're trying to tell it to other people, but there's such a basic fucking obvious reason that it's not true,
01:35:34
which is why it's insane to me that people have websites dedicated to his innocence.
01:35:39
Well, right, because back then nobody knew anything about any of this blood, the DNA and the blood type and all that stuff didn't exist.
01:35:47
All of this shows that it's a panic. This isn't planned. This is a fuck, what am I going to do?
01:35:51
Because then after all of this, he goes into the living room and he reads the Esquire magazine article.
01:35:58
And we know this because There's a bloody smudge on the edge of the magazine that then the blood belonged to Colette
01:36:04
and Kimberly. He reads the article, then he tosses his glasses aside. They land under the window in
01:36:10
the living room. And we know this because on those glasses, there's a mark of Kristen's blood.
01:36:16
And that throwing the glasses aside to me is such a fucking definitive action of,
01:36:21
well, now I know what I have to fucking do. You know, I read this article about how
01:36:25
the Tate murders, you know, were blood crazed hippies. Well, now I fucking know I have to
01:36:32
finish this and make it look like that. It's also as a person who was on speed for a year,
01:36:37
I've done acid and I've done speed and that for weight loss reasons. Oh, right. The idea that you
01:36:43
would, uh, be able to read anything in that circumstance specifically where he's just
01:36:49
murdered his family. And then he sits down to read an article to me is like really indicative
01:36:54
of the kind of psychopath he was. Because that's, can you imagine like when you get into a fender bender,
01:37:02
how freaked out you are? And now like you're just kind of, imagine in the middle of all that,
01:37:06
you sit down and read something or what would be, how would you even take anything in?
01:37:11
Well, here's what I'm wondering is if he had read it earlier that evening or whenever,
01:37:15
because she had been at school that evening. So I wonder if he had read through it earlier
01:37:20
or not even thought about it. And then these things started happening and he was like, wait,
01:37:23
How did they make this look? Like maybe he probably hadn't written the word pig yet in blood.
01:37:28
And he was like, maybe fueled on by the fact that he hadn't slept and had read this stuff
01:37:35
about these murders and kind of was fueled by that. And then he went back to the magazine to be like, how can I make this look like a cover
01:37:41
up? He wasn't going to read. He was going to find a way to cover this up. Right.
01:37:45
Get like the, what are the exact details? He's basically being a doctor about it where he was like, well, if I'm going to copy this,
01:37:51
I'm going to copy it correctly. Yeah. And I'm going to do it in the way that's going to convince everybody.
01:37:57
But I mean, it's just so cold. It's like, oh, my God, he's a fucking reptile, a total reptile.
01:38:05
And then like another argument people had on Reddit, which I can back this up, is when you're on acid, you can't fucking kill people.
01:38:10
Like killing people on acid is not a thing. OK, then he tips over the living room coffee table to show that there's been a struggle where he supposedly was sleeping.
01:38:22
but it's, there's a lot of evidence that shows it wasn't, which you can listen to in another
01:38:26
podcast. Um, okay. So then he uses a bedspread to take Colette's body back to the master bedroom.
01:38:32
And in the process leaves three bloody footprints and Colette's blood as he leaves Kristen's room.
01:38:37
And the fucking crazy thing about this is that you, they can tell that he was carrying something
01:38:43
heavy by the way the footprints are mashed into the carpet. Oh, it's not fucking crazy.
01:38:50
Oh, because it's pile carpet, like they can measure it. How heavy was the footprint?
01:38:55
Right. That's amazing. I know. So here's the, we're almost done. Okay. He puts Colette on the master bedroom floor and unknowingly sets her body down on top
01:39:05
of 24 pajama fibers underneath her body, even though he said he put them on top.
01:39:13
He hits her in the head again, and then he goes into Kimberly's room with the knife
01:39:18
inflicts more of her injuries with the knife. Then he takes the ice pick into Kristen's room,
01:39:25
inflicts more wounds on her. Then he goes back in and stabs Colette in the chest
01:39:31
and neck with a knife and stabs her 21 times after he had put down his pajama top on top of her.
01:39:38
So at that point, he puts his pajama top on top of her, stabs her 21 times. And when the prosecutors were in court,
01:39:46
they were able to show that the pajama top the way it was laid down matched every single one of those 21 marks So he had put it on top of her as if to cover her so he didn have to see himself stabbing his wife And 21 of those
01:40:01
21 marks went through that pajama top. So he said that they were on his arms and he was fending off
01:40:07
blows from the people in the, that's why those 21 marks were there. And it perfectly matches his
01:40:12
wife's wounds. Yep. Insanely fucked. Totally insane. Also just this idea of a crazed man
01:40:19
walking from room to room, killing and re-killing his family. It's horrifying. That and like he had never, apparently they were in an apartment building. So no one was ever like,
01:40:31
they had never argued before. They had never heard them fight. They had some fucked up problems with
01:40:34
their relationship. He had had multiple affairs. Like he had been fucking 15 women up until that
01:40:42
point like they were having big marital problems but they had never fought so this is a guy who is
01:40:47
whacked out of his mind and fucking um snaps yeah doing this it's not a it's not a methodical
01:40:54
killer it's someone who is like here's what needs to be done and does it he's over the edge for sure
01:40:59
yeah he's over the edge right and so the sam shepherd case is really similar um okay this
01:41:06
one was after Sam Shepard. Yeah. Yeah. Sam Shepard's in the late fifties. Yeah. Yeah. So he probably
01:41:12
wrote about that one too, right? Yes. Yeah. So then he walks to the back door with the weapons,
01:41:18
tosses them into the, into the murder bush. Into the one bush. What do we call it? The murder bush?
01:41:21
Yeah. Murder bush. Goes back into the master bedroom, uses the surgeon's glove to write the
01:41:28
word pig on the headboard of the master bed. There's three fibers. I know three fibers from
01:41:34
the pajamas found near the left corner of the footboard and one fiber found near the headboard.
01:41:39
So it was clearly him while he was, wait, that must've been, okay, something's going on. Anyways.
01:41:46
Then he obtained a disposable scalpel blade from the hallway closet because he won't even
01:41:50
fucking stab himself with the ice pick. Stabs himself in the right side of his chest with a
01:41:56
scalpel blade. And then I go to Reddit and Reddit says, someone on Reddit is really smart. And they
01:42:00
say it is exactly where the doctor makes an incision to place a chest tube. So this is the
01:42:10
spot that we, and he was like an emergency technician, this is where we cut someone to
01:42:15
place a chest tube because there is almost zero risk of harming the patient. So he collapses his
01:42:20
lung, but in a place that's not dangerous. He thinks that the severity of this wound will make
01:42:26
people think I didn't do it myself. Yes. Okay. But then he is assured that he won't be hurt in
01:42:33
any way. Hurt enough to make people not suspect him. He then gathers himself for a little bit,
01:42:39
and then he phones authorities at 3.40 a.m. And 3.42 a.m. He did it twice. So that's what really
01:42:48
happened. Jeffrey McDonald is now 68 and he remarried and is still in prison. 68 years old
01:42:57
might be from an article I didn't look at the date, but he's an older man now, but he's still
01:43:02
in prison. He's married. When you said remarried though, I was like, sorry, did he get off?
01:43:07
No, he's in prison and remarried in prison. Okay, good. One of those people. Sure. He has never
01:43:13
wavered from his claim that he didn't kill his wife and their children. And he says he'll never
01:43:18
apply for parole because that would require an admission of guilt, even though he's up for parole.
01:43:25
Which means he won't be eligible for release until the year 2071. But he is still fighting
01:43:31
for a new trial based on the fact that this woman, Helena, said she was the drug crazed hippie. And
01:43:36
there's videos of her online. You can find all kinds of videos from this. Of her just going,
01:43:41
No. Of her saying, I did it. I don know Maybe I did do it Go watch Fatal Visions It amazing There so many interviews with him in prison He reminds you of Ted Bundy meets fucking Robert Durst Yeah it fucked up So that
01:43:58
Jeffrey McDonald who murdered Colette, Kimberly and Kristen. Oh, wow. That was amazing.
01:44:05
Thank you. It's so satisfying because the other one was really frustrating because it's the other
01:44:12
one was so similar the sorry sam shepherd sam shepherd one was so similar but so mysterious
01:44:20
whereas this one is like it's parallel but then it's the worst version it's almost like this one
01:44:27
is from someone who's even more narcissistic because he didn't even come up with a good
01:44:34
there's no plan that's good enough to fucking make it seem like he didn't do it no there's
01:44:41
nothing. That timeline, and if you read it specifically on that website that I found,
01:44:49
let me see here, the mcdonaldcasefacts.com. If you read it on that by Philip Callahan,
01:44:56
it's even more specific and says what blood is where, what brain matter is where. There's a drop
01:45:01
of blood here. There's a drop of blood here. This blood is so-and-so's. This blood is this person's.
01:45:05
Like it's, there's a hundred more like pieces of blood evidence and fiber evidence that have, there's no way to explain them away other than the fact that he did it.
01:45:16
Right. Also, it just popped in my head because I'm I can't get over a father stabbing his daughters who are so young.
01:45:25
But if you're a surgeon, that kind of interaction with the human body isn't that weird to you because you do it a lot of times in a lifesaving way.
01:45:38
So like the body is just not a human body to you. Yeah. Well, they say that thing about like, I'm sorry to insult a bunch of surgeons, but that surgeons have a harder.
01:45:49
They are not. Well, this is the thing I'm not. And this is going out to Colin Clank.
01:45:57
Well, you started it here and we're ending here. Just that. Well, the brain is different because it's not something you see every day or you know what I mean?
01:46:03
But like the thing of where it's like if you are able to cut into a human body every single day and not think of it like and not be freaked out by it.
01:46:13
You have a you have a really a brain that's really good at disassociating itself from other people.
01:46:19
Yes. Is how I'll say it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From that any kind of it's a different thing for you.
01:46:25
It's not it's not a human anymore. But that still doesn't explain the fact that they were his goddamn daughters.
01:46:30
I don't know that. I'm so offended. But the thing of like the people who are narcissists who think of their children as a, um, a part of themselves, an extension of themselves.
01:46:41
So he's not killing his daughter. He's, he's, he's doing what he needs to do. Right.
01:46:47
It's, it's part of him. It's his property. He could do whatever he wants with it.
01:46:52
Oh, fuck him. I mean, how is it, and I'm not a parent, clearly, but how is it, I mean, look at my body.
01:47:01
How is it, how is it any easier? Oh, I can't, I can't say this right. I could never kill a child, even though I'm not a, it's parent.
01:47:09
How is it easier for someone else to do it? It's not. That's just, that's why he is this anomaly and this freak and this thing that we want
01:47:18
to look at and talk about. A child at all, let alone your own. Oh, I know. Horrifying. Jeffrey McDonald? Repeatedly. Okay. Wow, that was great.
01:47:32
Okay we back Are there updates for this There are updates McDonald has maintained his innocence and repeatedly challenged his convictions to no success A 2021 Department of Justice press release notes that these challenges have quote been repeatedly rejected by federal courts at
01:47:49
every level, end quote. As of January 2026, Jeffrey McDonald is still in prison. He's 82 years old.
01:47:57
In 2020, FX released a docuseries on the case called A Wilderness of Error. There are some
01:48:03
like compelling bits of information like against his guilty finding conviction yes but not enough
01:48:12
for me to believe that he didn't do it yeah so i would definitely watch that it's it's very
01:48:16
compelling case i mean those are the toughest ones where it is hard to first of all it's a crime
01:48:23
that's so hard to believe anyone would do right then it was handled in a way that's so messy yeah
01:48:28
That then just the fact that these many mistakes were made or this, then you're kind of like, well, then maybe no one would do this or maybe this isn't real.
01:48:37
Right. It's the same with JonBenet where it's like you're never going to get the answer based on just the evidence that was gathered that night.
01:48:45
You're not going to. Now we're going to head back. So we can wrap up this old episode.
01:48:51
Thank God. You need to go to the improv. right now. I can't. I won't make it. Plug your show. What time is it? Can I just say this right
01:49:05
now? Guy Branham. 25 minutes late already. Sorry. Fuck. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Go. Guy Branham,
01:49:11
we love you. Somebody posted a picture of themselves standing outside the improv today.
01:49:16
I'm going to make it at the end. You're coming right now. Yeah. You're going to blow them away.
01:49:22
Let's just do a quick thing you like this week. Going to Vegas tomorrow for Vince's birthday.
01:49:26
super excited oh nice did i already tell my vegas story i thought you went and saw magic
01:49:31
magic mike did i tell that though online did i tell it live no you didn't guys if you are near
01:49:36
las vegas or you're going anytime soon like me i'll go one thousand percent go see the magic
01:49:43
mike strip show at hard rock it is so good this is not sarcasm i'm not being sarcastic you can tell
01:49:49
because of how deep and resonating my voice is if i'm being sarcastic goes up like this
01:49:55
it's so good and the dancers are amazing and the show is really cool and very modern and a woman
01:50:03
is the host and it's very much about women getting what they want it's really cool it's very sexy
01:50:12
the dancing is incredible can i take vince totally but but um yeah there was like probably five guys
01:50:20
what if i go out there and i'm like where's vince he was sitting went to the bathroom to
01:50:22
half an hour ago and then it comes out on stage and he's in one of the dancers and he's like
01:50:25
happy anniversary or whatever does the whole dance the dancing is so good and just they're
01:50:32
acrobats they're gymnasts they're dancers they're musicians amazing it's crazy um that's it triple
01:50:40
threat all right we are back to wrap up the show the weapon bush show okay this episode was titled
01:50:50
Weapon Bush, obviously. So if we're naming it today, based on some of the stuff we said in this episode,
01:50:55
perhaps we would call it Moment of Chaos. Love it. We could also call it Levels of Hysteria.
01:51:03
And then we could call it, oh, this is a good idea, Smart Words. From Colin Clank telling us, using smart words to explain that to us.
01:51:14
Or Eva Marie Saint, my favorite joke of my dad's. Love dad jokes. Classic comedy from Jim.
01:51:20
Love it. Okay, that's this week's episode of Rewind. Thanks for being here. Yeah, we're going to say goodbye from 2017.
01:51:29
Thanks, everybody. Thanks for listening, you guys. We really appreciate everything you do for us.
01:51:33
Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.