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Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia. You know, every Wednesday we recap our old shows with all new commentary updates and insights.
00:02:33
We do and we will. Today we're recapping episode 84, which we named Harvard 2. I have no idea what it means and I love it already.
00:02:42
I got an idea and it's fucking hilarious. So good. Okay, this episode came out August 31st, 2017.
00:02:48
So let's listen to the intro of episode 84. Welcome to My Favorite Murder. Oh. For some reason, professional to me is like a low voice.
00:02:58
Is ASMR videos? Is ASMR videos. Welcome to My Favorite Murder. That's Karen. That's Karen Kilcarat.
00:03:04
That's two darn things. I mean, really. Guys. Professionals. This is the third time we've started tonight.
00:03:11
Let's see if we can nail this. It got real bad. You guys missed a lot about driving.
00:03:18
You missed I Spoiled a Movie. go watch the movie Christine it's on Netflix and I won't that's all I'm going to tell you that's all
00:03:25
you're going to tell them and don't look anything up about it just watch it if you dare just watch
00:03:31
it cold and don't know what it's about it's it was everything that I wanted because it was took
00:03:36
place in the 80s it was all vintage clothing amazingness Rebecca Hall was incredible Michael
00:03:42
C Hall this place such a douche I love it all the halls are in it all the halls and they're
00:03:47
and it's about the invention of Hall's Cough Drops. Yep. The halls are, the halls of, what are they?
00:03:53
What was our catchphrase? Deck the halls. Now this is just word association. Should we start again?
00:04:01
No, we're on April. Let's do it. We're leaving tomorrow for Denver. Oh, yes. But this will come out next week.
00:04:09
So, hey, Denver. I can't believe how high you got everybody. Yeah. So actually we're leaving in two days for Australia.
00:04:18
Oh, shit. Dude. Are you excited? I made us reservations at a restaurant already.
00:04:22
That's right. Did I tell you that already? Yeah, you did. I am excited. I have to say I'm very angry at the ghost of my mother because as the...
00:04:34
Sounds healthy already. as the one thing she did harp on in her life, it was always a nursing-related thing or a health-related thing.
00:04:45
Anytime I flew to New York or back east, she would say, get up and walk around. You don't want to die of a blood clot.
00:04:53
She would say that to me before I got on the plane. Which is like, great. Thanks for building that into my psyche.
00:05:00
It'll never leave. I don't. You are not supposed to cross your legs on takeoff and landing.
00:05:06
Really? For that reason. Is that true? Yeah. Well, I don't know if it's fucking true, but that's my paranoia that I've read.
00:05:12
Don't cross your legs. That's so specific, though. Because you're cutting off blood circulation.
00:05:18
Right. But why take off and landing? Because of the pressure. Okay. Okay. You're asking already.
00:05:24
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Well, I mean, yeah, all of it is. That makes sense-ish. It's just a concern that I have.
00:05:30
Okay. So your mom told you that. All my pants are too tight and I'm scared I'm going to die of a blood clot.
00:05:35
Okay. Wait, oh, you mean in life. Those are kind of two separate and then at the same time, the same issue.
00:05:41
Well, here's good news. Okay. Since we're flying business class, there's a bar in business class.
00:05:46
So you can walk over and meet me and Vince at the bar in business class getting absolutely
00:05:51
shit hammered. Wait is this like international waters where I can drink on the plane to Australia because it doesn count as being in America or my actual life Yes And then you have a blood clot and a seizure on the plane for real and i punch everybody i will punch
00:06:06
the pilot and be arrested this vince keeps vince keeps making up um scenarios like he likes to do
00:06:14
and then and then george is running around the the business class in her g-string i don't even
00:06:20
wear g-string suddenly oh he goes you're debuting your first g-string running around that miss can
00:06:26
you miss we need you to because you're going to be so drunk because i'll be so drunk and so excited
00:06:30
that we're yeah business class very exciting so i like the idea that i can lay down that really
00:06:37
brings me a lot of relief but it is scary to me um i don't know there's something nerve-wracking
00:06:43
about a plane a plane flight that long huh okay well we'll hold your hand okay okay okay be in a
00:06:50
pod. That's right. We'll be in a pod. Steven, you'll be there. Are you on the same flight as us? No, I'm not on the same flight.
00:06:55
I was going to send you back drinks constantly. No. Yeah. Well, we'll send them anyways. Then Steven's in his G-string.
00:07:02
Yeah. Out of control. Steven's in my G-string. I'm ready. I got tearaway pants and everything. Yes.
00:07:07
Australia style. I mean, I've done that flight before. I've done the flight to New Zealand. So that one's a little bit
00:07:13
longer than Australia. But like, I feel like I just slept the whole time. I just was like, I can't handle this.
00:07:19
long of a flight where it's like we're landing like two days later. Yeah. It's going to be intense. It's very exciting.
00:07:27
It's definitely going to be exciting. Oh, I'm going to get one of those Evian spray bottles and just spray water on my face
00:07:31
the whole time. Just, ma'am, can we... Ma'am, everyone's complaining. Ma'am, nobody wants
00:07:35
you to do that anymore. The person behind you is soaking wet because you keep doing it over your head.
00:07:40
Like, this is what rich people do. Does that stuff do anything? Alright. Okay. Let's talk about podcasting.
00:07:46
oh i want to say for the live show since we're on the subject that i think that we haven't told
00:07:53
people that so we do like sometimes two or three shows in the same city we do a different murder
00:07:59
every night oh yes so i feel like some people are like because we did that once the first time we
00:08:03
did two shows in one night i believe it was seattle right yeah and like you could hear the
00:08:09
people in the second show who had been at the first one like audibly grown yeah and then we
00:08:13
They're both like, oh, it felt bad. Yeah, the air went out of the room. We were just staring at each other like, why are we doing this?
00:08:22
Like I saw and I could see in the front row like the same two faces I had seen in the show before.
00:08:26
Yeah. And I just wanted to apologize. So I think we did apologize to a lot of people.
00:08:31
We know what we did. We stopped doing it. Therefore, that is the living apology that we did.
00:08:36
So we don't do the same murder ever, ever. And it's a lot of work. I'm really mad about it.
00:08:41
Like you said, you feel like you have 15 book reports. Yes. It's true. And we have all new really cool merch that you can't get online for sale at the shows.
00:08:50
Live show. We actually put a lot of work into it. And it's fucking cool shit. Georgia, if you were single and you had a Bumble profile, I think that merch would be one of the things you would list under your interests.
00:09:05
I'm really into it. Because you're fucking about merch and have been since day one.
00:09:09
It's just so fun. There's so much cool shit. We have a shirt now and I can, I, it says I'm a, and then it said, there's one that says
00:09:16
Karen and one that says Georgia, but it's in our signatures, which was Vince's idea.
00:09:20
And it's so fucking cool. Shit. It was Karen's idea. She just mouthed it at me. God damn it.
00:09:27
I'm sorry. It's okay. You just gave me so much credit for like doing merch. And then I was like, you don't do anything.
00:09:33
I do sometimes from the privacy of my home. Well, but I don't think it's that great of an idea anymore.
00:09:38
What happened? You loved it when Vince did it. Vince asked me to say that. I would like to say, you know, props to Vince.
00:09:48
There are lots of people who contacted us from Los Angeles or grew up here or whatever
00:09:53
that needed to say there is a Carvel ice cream shop in Los Angeles out on the west side.
00:09:59
Oh, yeah. We didn't know that. I've never heard of it at all in California at all.
00:10:05
Me neither. Fudgy the whale. I've been hearing that forever. Who else contacted us to let us know about Carvel?
00:10:09
Carvel Carvel themselves yeah what did they say did you see the tweet what did it say Stephen
00:10:15
oh because we were talking about getting a Carvel Fudgy the Whale for a hundredth show
00:10:18
yeah and they said they were like the countdown's on party time it's on us or something
00:10:23
oh really we're fucking famous now to that to me I was like that's it why is it cake
00:10:30
an ice cream cake or whatever that we could afford ourselves send Stephen to get
00:10:35
yeah to me I'm tweeting on us I lost my mind you've changed you've changed no i haven't that's the part i'm excited about a cake which is nothing new
00:10:45
but sending to steve it's a real celebration well what's funny to me is uh people talked about it
00:10:52
and they were like i grew up eating it and well i looked it up and as far as i could tell the that
00:10:58
shop opened in 2008 no that's what it said on the website santa monica yeah oh yeah okay it's the
00:11:04
only one in la i think there's one outside of la too i think there was one in like i'm naming a
00:11:09
city that i don't like monrovia oh over in monrovia over in monro like it's one of those places where
00:11:14
i'm from southern california and i don't know where that like there are these cities that you're
00:11:17
like why would i know where pacuema is it's like well yeah is it those there's a really there's a
00:11:22
mystery spot that's kind of like along the called inland empire yeah the mid the mountain range
00:11:28
then it's like why don't how do you not know where these places are like claremont yeah
00:11:32
happening over in claremont nobody goes there unless i think they stay there they're like fuck
00:11:37
LA yeah which is fair it's like I've been to a couple of the space I'm like oh it's fucking
00:11:42
adorable well Claremont's fancy too is it it has like that college they have colleges over there
00:11:47
oh you mean Harvard that's where Harvard is what if they had Harvard too that's what
00:11:53
it similar to Harvard it tons of ivy it just mostly it a school to teach you how to grow ivy They just have a plant They teach you how to grow ivy Do you know that my mom
00:12:06
is a horticulturist and I really want her. Wait, hold on. Yeah. Janet's a horticulturist? Yeah.
00:12:12
Is that true? She's going to school for it. She's always been so fucking hardcore into plants.
00:12:17
Wow. And then finally at 71, she's like, well, I'm going to go to school to be a horticulturist.
00:12:21
That's amazing. Yeah. So she works at like a nursery and I'm dying for her to open her own plant shop.
00:12:30
And I just only because I want her to call it Little Shop of Horticulture. Is that the best thing you've ever heard?
00:12:37
Yeah, it really is. It's not. No, that one I'm going to go with. Okay. That one I like.
00:12:41
That's good. Yeah, it was good. Thank you. That was a sidebar-y, a sidebar. What if she did that and then she gets sued?
00:12:48
By Brick Moranis? by the evil dentist Steve Martin. That was so pointless. Please go on.
00:12:56
Yeah, I mean, seriously. It's like we're trying to get people to not listen to this podcast.
00:13:01
Here's this series I have to talk about because I'm so into it. The Sinner. Are you watching it with Jessica Biel?
00:13:09
Oh, I'm dying to. Okay, you have to. I'm dying. I didn't know it was on yet. Jessica Biel.
00:13:14
Bill Pullman plays the cop. I don't know. some Jon Snow looking motherfucker plays her husband. I've never seen him before
00:13:21
unless it is Jon Snow and he's doing an American accent. I'm not sure what's happening.
00:13:25
He's beautiful. And it is a like, she doesn't know you have to see it. I've seen the commercials
00:13:35
and I've gotten like chills. It's on demand. Anyway, if you like I don't know, if you like
00:13:41
a good series, which this is and it is, it has the crime feel to it, but it also is like has a
00:13:47
very well written and paced drama feel to it. Jessica Biel, who I've never known it. Like I'm,
00:13:52
I'm too old to be in that seventh heaven generation. Oh, me too. She is so good. I just hated it.
00:13:59
It's, I mean, like, it's a little, you're not that, you're not that into Christianity.
00:14:03
That's probably what it is. Actually, did you know I am? What? Yeah. You're the,
00:14:07
you're a Jew for Jesus? Jew for Jesus. Yeah. So anyway, if you are looking for something new to
00:14:11
watch, highly recommend the sinner. It's not. So I was worried it was going to be like corner,
00:14:16
Like, you know, they keep trying to make these shows that are like true detective and they're not like, I really didn't like the Ozarks.
00:14:22
Did you watch that? I didn't watch it. Because, yeah, everyone loved it. And I'm sorry.
00:14:26
I don't care. But it was I hated it. And so I was like, oh, I hope this isn't another one of those.
00:14:31
Right now, Jason Bateman has a single tear rolling down his cheek. And he's saying, OK, that's what he says in the beginning of every.
00:14:37
Sorry. Shit. I really want like a walk on roll and the new Arrested Development.
00:14:42
So I shouldn't talk shit. Is that really what you want? No. I don't care. are you vision boarding right now?
00:14:50
Spitballing my vision board. A walk on role where you just kind of walk on. No, I totally get it because I think,
00:14:57
well, it's because when it's done right, it's the best. Yeah. And when, when it's done right,
00:15:02
you can like lock into a series like that. Or night of the night of. Hello. Yeah.
00:15:08
I mean, I want to watch it 50 times. So this, I was thinking of Jessica Biel and what's his name making out?
00:15:16
Justin Timberlake? No. That's her husband. The Knight of? Riz Ahmed. Yeah. Oh, and you're just having personal fantasy.
00:15:22
Yes. That's for your other podcast. I'm cosplaying. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm just going on.
00:15:27
You don't like Riz Ahmed because if you like Riz Ahmed, you wouldn't immediately picture
00:15:31
him making out with Jessica Biel. And picture him making out with myself? Well, yeah.
00:15:38
So you're not. He's a good looking human. Okay. I thought you were like, oh, I want his DNA inside me.
00:15:45
No, I meant that. And I want to have his baby because he's so handsome. Because he's so beautiful.
00:15:49
Because he's so beautiful. And I bet the baby would be gorgeous. You're using him.
00:15:53
Using his DNA. Oh, my God. I'm totally telling him why he's using him. I'm so mad at you.
00:15:58
Those are my only topics. Carvel in the center. Okay. And I think we should probably watch some episodes while we eat Carvel ice cream.
00:16:06
Okay. Let's watch them right now. While we talk. What was I going to say? I have another thing, but I'm sure it's not important and weird.
00:16:15
Take a moment. So stop and listen. You know how people love awkward, weird pauses in podcasts.
00:16:22
They never exist with Stephen's wonderful work. Editing. Editing, am I right? Don't edit this out, Stephen.
00:16:33
And we're back. Claremont College is Harvard, too. Done and done. We did it again.
00:16:40
I mean, there's parts of this, you know, as you and only you understand. Me? The parts, yes.
00:16:45
The parts of this podcast and having this podcast that are absolutely like soul scrapingly painful for us.
00:16:51
Yeah. But then there's those things where like you hear it back and you're like, God damn it, that's funny.
00:16:55
Totally. Just conversationally great chatter. That's how I feel whenever I watch an MFM animated.
00:17:00
I'm like, we can't stop doing this because this is fucking brilliant. Not me, not you, but like this in general.
00:17:08
Yes, exactly. Like having those eyes where whether it's a Nick Terry or our listeners where they're like, it's good.
00:17:14
We like it. Yeah, you're like, okay. Just like, oh, okay. Have you ever had a blood clot?
00:17:18
No, fuck, no. Thank God. And I still don't cross my legs on takeoff and landing.
00:17:24
Yes. Right? I mean. Or when you're getting your hair cut. Do you know that? Or ever, because you're not a lady if you don't do it.
00:17:31
I was crossing my legs. Where was it the other day? And I was like, am I supposed to be doing this right now?
00:17:36
Oh, I was in church. And I was like. You were in, wait, back the fuck up. It was a funeral.
00:17:41
Oh, sorry. That's okay. but you're like what that's right I'm becoming super catholic
00:17:47
I thought you were gonna say it was Christmas I'm like that still doesn't exclude
00:17:50
no no it was a funeral and I was sitting there and I was like realized that that my most comfortable position is crossed legs same and I don think you supposed to cross your legs in church What That not They have so many rules Are you serious Yeah That sounds like a superstition but I guess that what religion is really
00:18:07
Well, hey, if there's any nuns or priests out there that want to talk about Catholic
00:18:11
rules, because also this is like post-Vatican II, so there's rules I don't even know about.
00:18:16
They do call and response that I don't recognize because I— What's up? Like that.
00:18:20
What's up? And then everyone else is like, we're right here, baby. Jesus. Touching hands, touching hands.
00:18:27
I'm like, what? We never did it this way. They're playing fucking, or what's it, Rochambeau for God.
00:18:33
Rochambeau for God. Yeah. What? Okay. What? No blood clot, thank fucking God. Yeah.
00:18:39
Everything's fine. Oh, that's a very meaningful question is, did your mom becoming a horticulturist at 71
00:18:45
inspire you in any way? Oh, I think, yeah, it always has. I think it's pretty incredible that she did that.
00:18:52
It's very cool. It keeps your brain. She had to learn Latin. Yeah. You know, and she's 79 now. Holy shit. Almost 80. Yeah. Oh, my God. So close to 80. She looks good. She looks amazing. And she's still pretty sharp. I think some of that pot smoking may have slowed things down just a little bit. But otherwise. Probably because she wants it to. Let's slow this shit down a little bit. But yeah, I think it's any time of your life you should be learning something new.
00:19:19
Also, she's kind of a visionary because the way plants have blown up, and I know that sounds stupid, but it really is true.
00:19:25
Like the social media kind of trend of I have 800 plants in my apartment, it feels like Janet was on the early edge of that trend.
00:19:33
She could be a horticulture influencer now if she wanted to. And it's the thing of, too, like something you've always been interested in your whole life.
00:19:40
Like we can't go for a walk my entire life without her pointing at a plant and telling me what kind of fucking flower it is or whatever.
00:19:45
Yes. So she's like, I love this. I'm going to learn more. It's great. You know, it's funny is my dad, my both of my parents were into plants like that, too.
00:19:53
And so I was walking somewhere one time and I was like, look at this bougainvillea.
00:19:57
And everyone thought I was joking. And it really was. And I was like, oh, that's so weird.
00:20:00
I just had that waiting in there. I love that. I think I call most flowers. Oh, look at that hydrangea.
00:20:06
Is that a hydrangea? I think I think everything is a hydrangea and not like nothing's a hydrangea.
00:20:10
And most people are impressed. No, they don't fucking know. They don't fucking know.
00:20:14
My mom's like, you're stupid. And you're like, shut the fuck up. No, we love you, Janet, and great job.
00:20:20
Great job on that trend. Okay, now we're back to this podcast. Yes, here we are.
00:20:25
It's true crime. We're getting into Georgia's story, and it is about Teresa Knorr.
00:20:48
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For full offer details, visit BoostMobile.com. The last one we actually did was, if I get it before you, Stephen, you're fired.
00:22:40
Okay, weapon push. No, you're going first. Okay, you're not fired. All right. 1989.
00:22:47
20-year-old woman named Terry Knorr comes to the Utah police and she has a story for them.
00:22:53
She tells them about how eight years before around, her mother and two brothers had killed both of her teenage sisters, Terry's teenage sisters, and left their bodies in the mountains near Lake Tahoe.
00:23:07
What the fuck? Yeah. Tells them this. She's kind of like, you know, like a druggie and she's been arrested for like shoplifting.
00:23:15
So she's kind of on the outskirts of stuff. So they don't believe her. They're like, you're making shit up.
00:23:21
And it's an insane story. So the cops don't believe her. A therapist and a lawyer that she consults don't believe her story.
00:23:29
Yeah. So she's just like, well, fuck it. I don't know what to do then. But then in 1993, she watches an episode of America's Most Wanted, calls the hotline that they give.
00:23:39
And she's like, fuck it. Starts bawling. And I guess there's like a woman on the other end of the line who's like, oh, my God.
00:23:43
And they're like talking. And I'm like, how cool would it have been to be in America's most wanted fucking call center?
00:23:49
Operator. Can you imagine? Cool. And then also you would have talked to some of the craziest.
00:23:56
You would have heard some of the craziest stories. Definitely. I should say it that way.
00:24:00
Would you rather be, I know the answer to this, a 911 operator or a call center?
00:24:05
Or name anything. Or anything else in the world. Name anything else. Okay, so she calls them and this chick's like, whoa, that's crazy.
00:24:14
They talk forever. She's like, well, why don't you go to the police station that this took, the precinct that this took place in?
00:24:22
Because she lived in Utah then and they didn't believe her. So she goes to the Placer County Sheriff and tells authorities what happened.
00:24:30
And they start to realize that these details match with two cold cases that had happened eight years before.
00:24:40
Oh, shit. And she's giving them details that fit so well that they can't not believe her.
00:24:47
I so badly right now want to see video of her to see what her behavior or... I can show it to you right now.
00:24:55
For real? Cold case file. Why don't they? What about her do you think makes her so unbelievable to the authorities?
00:25:03
She definitely seems like the kind of person. She's talking about how she told everyone.
00:25:08
She would tell anyone who listened this story. And they must have thought that I could see people being like, this chick just fucking goes to a dive bar.
00:25:19
She's a regular. She tells everyone the story. Nobody believes that it's a crazy story.
00:25:24
So does she seem like an alcoholic or like she's a druggie or something? Yeah, not anymore.
00:25:28
Not when she's doing the actual episode. She seems like she's got her shit together.
00:25:31
She's actually incredibly believable. Well, and also if you went through that, you get to drink.
00:25:37
All of it. You do anything. I mean, like, that's the irritating thing about those kinds of situations.
00:25:43
You live through a trauma like that of like half your family killing the other half.
00:25:47
And then you're supposed to just be like, oh, no, I'm a really reliable witness because I'm totally in reality all the time.
00:25:53
And it's like she's telling the story and she's not crying because she had to shut her emotions off from all of this so long ago that they're like, you're telling us this story and you're telling it matter of factly and we don't believe you.
00:26:05
Like even a therapist who should be able to look past all this stuff. And like call the fucking Lake Tahoe PD and be like, hey, anyways, well, we'll get to her story and we can talk about that.
00:26:18
Okay. Okay. So that, yeah, there's two never identified Jane Doe's that kind of match and they're like,
00:26:25
oh shit, we should look into this. So here's the story. So Terry's mom, her name's Teresa Knorr.
00:26:32
She's born in Sacramento, California in 46. At age 16, she leaves home to marry a man five years
00:26:38
older than her, who she had met a few months prior. She drops out of high school and she gets
00:26:44
pregnant. So on July 6, 1964, they're arguing and the husband tells Teresa that he's leaving her.
00:26:56
She gets so pissed off. She shoots him in the back with a rifle as he's walking out the door,
00:27:00
killing him. Holy shit. Yeah. She's arrested and charged with his murder, but she says
00:27:06
she's not guilty because it was self-defense. She says she doesn't tell them what happened really.
00:27:11
Like shooting someone in the back. How is that self-defense? Yeah. It doesn't look good.
00:27:14
But during her trial, she's pregnant with her second kid. And she claims that she shot him because he was a violent alcoholic who physically abused her.
00:27:24
And she's acquitted of the murder. She gives birth to her second kid, Sheila, 65.
00:27:30
And after that birth, she begins drinking super heavily, begins another relationship with a man named Robert Knorr.
00:27:36
That's how she got her last name. She comes pregnant again. They have a third kid named Susan.
00:27:41
and then they have three more children, William, Robert and Teresa that they named after her.
00:27:48
And that's Terry. That's the girl who came. Teresa Jr. Teresa Jr. Yeah, I got that.
00:27:52
As you do. It's kind of cool. Yeah. You know what? I really love the name Virginia, but if I ever have a kid, I can't name her
00:28:02
Virginia because my name's Georgia and it would seem like I'm naming her after myself.
00:28:06
And this is my son, New Jersey. Right. It's like, no, you can't do that. No. You're just a vain.
00:28:11
Um, but if you had a daughter named her Karen, I would totally do that. I would do that in a heartbeat.
00:28:20
Come on. Eventually she, they divorce. Uh, she mates another man. They get married.
00:28:29
Uh, two months later they divorce. And then this is when she starts to go fucking crazy.
00:28:35
It says all the kids, um, after her fourth divorce, fourth divorce, six kids. she goes nuts she starts drinking more and more she puts on a ton of weight and is super pissed
00:28:46
off about it um she starts abusing her kids hardcore um terry said when we were kids my
00:28:53
mom beat the shit out of us she's like kind of awesome yeah like you want to hang out with her
00:28:57
when you see her in cold in this cold case files okay i'll watch it she yeah she's just like well
00:29:02
they beat it she beat the ever-loving fuck out of like she's just so matter of fact about it but
00:29:06
like you can tell she's just like that friend that's intense and wants to have late night
00:29:11
conversations with you about everything. If we hugged our mom too much, it was like,
00:29:17
who were we trying to convince that we loved her? She loved us. On the other hand, if we didn't hug
00:29:22
her and kiss her and tell her we loved her, then we didn't love her and we were evil children.
00:29:26
We were demon seeds that had been given to her by Bob Knorr. So she goes crazy and starts to think
00:29:31
that her kids are like satanic. And she becomes reclusive and disconnected the home phone and
00:29:38
wouldn't let the kids go out and have visitors. They moved into a two bedroom apartment in Sacramento.
00:29:44
Can you imagine six children? Oh, no. I lived in two bedroom apartments with two other roommates
00:29:50
and we all wanted to kill each other the whole time. Yeah. Also, it's very hot there.
00:29:54
Sacramento Always Yeah Probably didn have AC Probably didn That will make you go crazy Swamp coolers That what you told me yeah we sit around in chairs right next to the swamp cooler with our armpits up on it i never even heard of it be like let the sun go down um okay the neighbor and
00:30:12
the neighbors say the apartment was filthy and smelled like urine oh so on top of all of that
00:30:17
so for years um teresa abused and tortured her children and it sounds horrific um including
00:30:24
burning them with cigarettes, throwing knives at them, beating, and once grabbed Terry by the arm
00:30:29
and held a .22 caliber pistol to her head and told her she was going to kill her.
00:30:33
So chances are that Terry, when she went to finally report this horrible thing, was totally shut down.
00:30:39
That's why it was like, she wasn't crying. She was matter-of-factly telling the story.
00:30:43
And it's like, well, yeah, at seven years old or whatever, she was like, emotions are not going to help you.
00:30:48
No, I bet they count against you very badly with a mother like that. Definitely.
00:30:53
Fuck. So she, yeah, she had no emotional attachment to this story at that point, which is insane.
00:30:59
This story reminds me of Sylvia Likens, that horrible story I covered a while ago.
00:31:03
Yeah. In that the mom made, would make the other kids beat up one of them. No, no.
00:31:09
So she would make them be involved in it so that they were part of it, you know?
00:31:16
And that's probably part of why Terry was so fucking shut down is like she kind of had a hand in it and her in her mind thinking she was responsible, too, even though you're obviously not.
00:31:26
Yeah. So there's like talk of incest. It's brought up in like one or two articles, but they don't the word incest comes up, but they don't go into details at all.
00:31:36
Yeah. So I don't really know how truthful that is or to what extent that is. Let's see.
00:31:42
Okay, so she primarily started to focus her anger and abuse on the two oldest daughters, Susan and Sheila.
00:31:50
And according to Terry, Teresa resented that Susan and Sheila were maturing and becoming attractive young women while she was becoming older and couldn't lose any weight.
00:32:01
Terry kind of explains it like that, but it's clearly so much more deep-seated than that.
00:32:06
She's a monster and insane person. And a bad alcoholic, like a degenerating alcoholic.
00:32:11
And yeah, there's probably parts of her brain are going soft because of the drinking.
00:32:16
If it's been going on for long enough. Yeah. I learned that on Sober House. That can happen to you.
00:32:22
Really? Oh my God. Excuse me while I take a sip of my tea that's got whiskey in it.
00:32:30
But that makes perfect sense. And also I bet you The Sons, it's like every movie you've ever seen about an abusive parent
00:32:37
where eventually the 16 year old boy turns around and goes, I'll beat the shit out of you if you touch me again.
00:32:42
Right. The girls can't probably can't do that. Exactly. Yeah. And yeah. And the beating the boys, you know, start beating them up and probably avoid their mother beating the shit out of them because they're part of it.
00:32:57
You know, it's it's really horrific. Yeah. Especially. Yeah. so she would so because of this she would start administering forced feedings to the girls
00:33:08
which can you imagine that kind of fucking torture sorry because they were young and pretty and thin
00:33:14
so she would give them forced feedings she would make boxes and boxes of like mac and cheese you
00:33:21
know like the mac and cheese and put spoonfuls of lard in it and sit there and make them eat all of it
00:33:31
and sucks to a point where one of the girls had her front teeth were broken because of
00:33:37
forcing her to eat holy shit yeah that's a hard thing to do for to eat like that or to break your
00:33:44
teeth really yeah i mean i've never done it yeah it's it's not it's pretty solid oh my god
00:33:50
jesus christ all right um so and if you threw up you had to eat it like force you know when you eat
00:33:59
so much you get full and it's so fucking painful and horrible can you i think that to me is
00:34:03
it's such a telling torture but also it's so self-serving yeah it's it's yeah it's very
00:34:12
it's really really sad so she so teresa started to believe that her fourth husband
00:34:19
had turned susan one of the older daughters into a witch because so she really received the worst
00:34:26
of Teresa's abuse. After one severe beating, Susan ran away from home and she was picked up by police
00:34:34
and placed in a psychiatric hospital and she told the staff of the abuse at the hands of her mother.
00:34:39
And Teresa denies the abuse and told the hospital staff that Susan had mental issues.
00:34:45
So they didn't investigate and they released Susan back to her mother as they do in the 80s.
00:34:50
Fuck. Yep. How old was Susan? I think she was a teenager. A lot of the details of age
00:34:56
in that year and that sort of thing is hazy probably because terry's the one giving them
00:35:01
the info and there's not a lot of oh right you know there's not a lot of info to back it up so
00:35:08
it's hard to tell um so of course susan's super punished for this she gets beatings with while
00:35:17
they wear a pair of leather gloves which i don't understand like this part is in a couple of the
00:35:22
articles. Is it, it makes it more painful or something? I would imagine. I don't know. I
00:35:27
thought maybe you would know like, Oh yeah. Leather, whatever. Not slapping gloves, slapping
00:35:31
with gloves, like a British gentleman would. No, they like put leather gloves on and beat her up.
00:35:36
I wonder if it like delivers a punch heart. I don't know. Someone will tell us. She also forced
00:35:41
her. Okay. So they all had to beat her up. Um, she got handcuffed to the bed and the other children
00:35:47
how to stand guard and watch her make sure she can get out of there um the handcuffs aren't enough
00:35:54
i know she makes she makes her drop out of school everyone drops out of school and they all in like high school Oh none of them got past eighth grade So this all happened before eighth grade
00:36:05
Oh, fuck. Yeah. That's really young. Okay. Very. And they were homeschooled, of course,
00:36:11
based on the Bible. And then Teresa had a thing called the Board of Education. And it
00:36:17
was a paddling board that said the Board of Education on it. And they did something wrong.
00:36:22
I've heard of that. Have you? Yeah. People's parents having that. Really? Yep. It's a funny, abusive pun.
00:36:30
Oh, I know. It's cute. It's like makes it. Man, I got I got hit with a wooden spoon as a kid a lot.
00:36:39
And it is so fucking painful. Is it really? It I know it like it's it's kind of it seems it's like a cute thing.
00:36:47
Right. Like you got to spank your children. and it everyone acts like it's this is how you teach them how to be a good person no so i got
00:36:54
spanked a lot as a kid with both a windspoon and a hand it fucking hurts and it's terrifying and
00:37:00
the parent is really pissed off while they're doing it so it's not like a teaching a lesson
00:37:05
it's you've i am so fucking angry at you that's an adult out of control yeah with a child yeah well
00:37:11
and also it was very fucking common back then yeah it was it was not only common for people
00:37:15
to get, uh, uh, well, abused. Legitimately like that. They still, a lot of people don't think
00:37:22
that's abuse. Right. But also other people's parents would kit, would slap kids or, you know,
00:37:28
spank them. It was always this idea of spanking like on the butt was less bad. It's, they call it
00:37:33
a smack. I don't know why am I oversharing this stuff? Well, it's very relevant and I'm sure it
00:37:39
brought up, this story brought up a lot of shit for you. Yeah. That's fucked up. Yeah. Um,
00:37:44
I hope my mom doesn't sue me for defamation. Shit. No one's going to go to fucking Little House of Horror Cultures.
00:37:54
Or, yeah. Damn it. Should I not? Okay. It's going to go in my memory anyways. Might as well say it on the podcast.
00:38:01
No, I'm kidding. Okay. So let's get to the fucking shit. They're having an argument in 1983.
00:38:10
Teresa shoots Susan in the chest during this argument. Fuck. The bullet gets lodged in her back.
00:38:17
Teresa makes the sons put her in the bathtub. And Susan gets nursed back to health by her mother.
00:38:24
What? Yep. She doesn't die. But it all takes place at home. Yeah. Good God. It's a hell hole.
00:38:32
Yeah. And Terry says that this was the only time that she didn't see her mother hitting Susan.
00:38:40
So it was almost like nursing her back to health made her feel motherly and needed.
00:38:46
And so she wasn't abusive. Fuck. Isn't that insane? That's where were the fucking neighbors or I mean, gunshots are taking place.
00:38:55
Well, the house, they showed a photo of the house that they moved into the like two bedroom.
00:38:59
It definitely looks secluded. Oh, like in a Sacramento kind of way. I was picturing it as like apartments.
00:39:05
No. Yeah. It's an they call it an apartment, but it's not. Okay. It's like a two bedroom small place.
00:39:12
Okay. And it looks like it's, you know, out in wherever. Yeah. But yeah, you know.
00:39:19
So, okay. So she's a nurse back to health. She survives. And in 1984, she works up the courage and tells her mom she wants to move out.
00:39:29
And Teresa says, okay, you can move out. But you have to let me remove the bullet from your back.
00:39:36
because if you tell on me that can be used as evidence oh my god this is horrific right it's
00:39:43
unbelievable i know i was like maybe this week i'll do like an old-timey murderer that's like
00:39:48
a little more nope and then i was like oh i found this and i have to do it it's incredible it's
00:39:54
insane um so theresa susan agrees they put her down on the kitchen floor and terry says i was
00:40:03
basically the nurse. I had to administer all these things, but either the brother or Teresa
00:40:10
took the bullet out. I can't really tell, but they fed her, um, a ton of liquor and malaria,
00:40:16
malarial capsules. Do you know what those are? Imagine their sleeping pill till she's out cold
00:40:21
and then take the bullet out and flush it down the toilet. All right. Um, infection sets in
00:40:31
Susan's skin turns yellow from jaundice they handcuff her to the kitchen table and she
00:40:39
lays dying on the floor this gets really horrific she Teresa tells her kids that
00:40:48
Susan was possessed by Satan and the only way to purge the demon was with fire oh no she
00:40:53
makes Robert and Bill the brothers drive Susan to sierra nevada interstate 80 do you know where that is um so it's like out in the wilderness
00:41:03
right yes well the 80 if from sacramento you take the 80 events then you're i think yeah
00:41:09
okay it's i'm pretty sure it's on the way up to the mountains like yeah if i'm not that sounds
00:41:17
right it's like toward rooseville okay um all right they had packed all of her possessions
00:41:24
into trash bags. They pull over, they put the trash bags down. They, they put Susan on top of
00:41:32
them. Then they poured gasoline and they lit her on fire. Is she still alive? Yeah. I wasn't going
00:41:37
to say anything. Well, you have to tell the whole story. I know. And I think she was like, to me,
00:41:45
nothing is worse than what those are the, those for some reason are the worst to me is being lit
00:41:52
on fire by your fucking family. Yeah But dying of fire to me is specifically horrific Yeah I can That like the one I can really think about And I doing a story about it And it just a warning on cold case files
00:42:06
They show her. Oh. They show the fucking crime scene photos. So they, she's found, they put the fire out.
00:42:17
They have no idea who she is. They think that, okay, they have no idea who she is.
00:42:24
They make a drawing of what they think that she looks like. Fucking case goes cold.
00:42:32
They have no idea who she is. And back at home, so it's like a year later, late spring of 85,
00:42:42
Teresa starts to make her now 20-year-old daughter, Sheila, work as a sex worker.
00:42:47
She like pimps her out. And she's earning hundreds of dollars a day. And Teresa almost seems like she's proud of her.
00:42:55
And she eased up on the daily beatings. And Sheila's actually out to come and go as she pleases, which is rare.
00:43:05
And then Teresa accuses Sheila of giving Teresa an STD through the toilet seat. and so she beats her hog ties her and locks her in a like tiny broom closet it's hot as fuck
00:43:24
there's no ventilation oh and she forbids her other children to give Sheila food or water or
00:43:29
to open the closet door and Terry one day when she was gone disobeys her in hands and gives
00:43:35
her a beer which is almost like you can imagine that's probably all there was in the house yes
00:43:40
And she's this like kid, this teenage kid who's like, doesn't know what else to do.
00:43:45
Here's a beer. So she, I guess Teresa just said she wanted Sheila to confess. But either way, she's going to get beaten.
00:43:56
And so she does confess. She doesn't believe her. And so she eventually dies in the closet.
00:44:05
Oh, my God. Yeah. So three days later, she dies of dehydration and starvation. They leave her body in the closet for an additional three days before even discovering that she's dead.
00:44:15
So the mom and son puts the body, her body in a cardboard box, tapes it shut, and they take it to the mountains where they dumped it near Truckee, the Truckee airport.
00:44:25
And then they get back to the apartment and realize the smell hasn't gone away. And so Teresa orders Terry to set the apartment on fire.
00:44:33
This woman is a fucking lunatic. Guess what? She's still alive. What? She's still alive.
00:44:39
Teresa. Oh, the lunatic mom. Oh, to this day. Yeah. Oh, sorry. For a second. I was like,
00:44:46
that was like the crazy twist. No, no, no. There's sadly no crazy twist. Okay. Okay.
00:44:52
But the dad, the dying and dad is done at this point. I mean, this is, this is. How have you not heard about this? I know when you said the name, it sounds familiar.
00:45:02
How have you not heard about this? I know. Isn't that crazy? It sounds super familiar,
00:45:07
But yeah, but I didn't I I don't know these details at all. But this might be when your parents like were like, we're not watching the news for a while.
00:45:15
Yeah, but 85 that I would have like if that if I heard that on the news, then I would have been like.
00:45:20
But here's the thing about 85 is that those are just when the bodies were found.
00:45:24
Two separate bodies. Oh, and there were cold cases. And there were cold cases and they weren't even linked.
00:45:28
OK, I think that the investigator on cold case files was like, yeah, we talked to them.
00:45:32
We're like, this is weird. But they died in totally different ways. But there were two young teenagers.
00:45:36
but they didn't put it together. Fuck. Yeah. So you wouldn't have heard much. Okay, that's right.
00:45:42
She didn't come forward until 93. But you were in Sacramento then. Stop it. I couldn't have known.
00:45:49
Oh, I'm not blaming you. I'm joking. I'm just talking about how fucking weird it is that this,
00:45:53
like one of the most insane cases I've ever heard of child abuse, and we've never heard of it.
00:45:57
Right. I moved, I was in San Francisco by 93. Okay. Which just makes me want, that made me want to tell the story more because it's like.
00:46:05
no i can see it the fuck because it's this weird oh my god like that idea of the crazy alcoholic
00:46:12
mom that like keeps everybody in the house like no one's in school and it's just mayhem an ugly
00:46:20
sad place of constant torture someone that just shoots people like what i mean kills her own it's
00:46:26
just so crazy that this one person against five and she is so manipulative and insane and dangerous
00:46:33
and scary that she's able to tell her sons to go kill their sister and they obey.
00:46:39
It's their mother. Yeah. It's their primary. It's horrible. Yeah. And it's all they've ever known.
00:46:44
Yeah. All right. So she tells her to light the apartment on fire in the middle of the night.
00:46:52
She sprinkles lighter fluid around the apartment and lights it on fire. But it didn't spread because I think because there were neighbors.
00:46:58
So apparently there were neighbors. Who knows? so the fire department responds there's not a lot of damage
00:47:05
Sheila's body is discovered a few hours after it had been disposed of in the box
00:47:10
by fucking poor fishermen Jesus can you imagine and they show that too on cold case files
00:47:16
I was so surprised and I was sitting here with Vince and he looks up right when that happens and I was like
00:47:20
don't look don't look look I said don't look because you're going to think I'm fucking insane that I'm watching
00:47:24
this he doesn't want to see he like went in the other room he also knows you're insane
00:47:29
Yes. Just quick FYI. He does. You're right. He likes wrestling. Exactly. Everyone's got their thing.
00:47:36
Yeah, right. Okay. They, again, classified as a Jane Doe. After leaving the Sacramento apartment, they all go into hiding.
00:47:48
They finally, the lighting on fire is finally their ticket out of there. And they all break up and spread around.
00:47:55
And Terry gets to escape her mom. Wow. At 16. Thank you. the mom relocates to Vegas with one of the sons, Robert Knorr.
00:48:06
And in 91, he's arrested after fatally shooting a bartender in Las Vegas during an attempted robbery.
00:48:13
I mean, these are like these are born and bred criminals that are like now go out into the world to just reign free.
00:48:19
Yeah. Good luck with having any kind of normal life. Yeah. Any conflict you have, you're going to start shooting.
00:48:25
Yeah. Terry, I mean, God bless her. She seems like she was able to straighten her fucking life out.
00:48:34
It's unbelievable that she is able. I mean, watch it just to hear her talk. I can't wait.
00:48:42
So they moved back. Then they moved. So he goes to prison for 16 years. Mom relocates to Salt Lake City where she becomes an elderly woman's caretaker.
00:48:52
This dude hires her to take care of his mother. ailing mother lives there and when she okay let me keep telling this okay um this is gonna that's
00:49:01
gonna turn out bad right no oh okay no it turns out like it turns out and now we had no idea you
00:49:08
know what i mean so no no one no one else gets killed okay good um so terry takes sheila's
00:49:15
identification card to pass herself off as a legal adult like she becomes you do what you got to do
00:49:21
Yes. So when she finally goes to share her story and they finally believe her because of her detailed descriptions down to the chipped teeth of the Jane Doe they had, because the box that Sheila was put in, they knew was that was the only piece of evidence they had.
00:49:42
It was a box from a movie theater of like popcorn buckets. So they went to every movie theater and was like, is this your brand? Is this your box? And it wasn't.
00:49:50
And it turns out that Robert worked at a movie theater when they had taken the box from movie theater.
00:49:55
So even that corroborated everything, just these details, everything matched. So the detectives also took out the subfloor that had been stained with Sheila's body to test it.
00:50:08
And in November 93, Teresa Norris arrested at her home in Salt Lake City, where she fucking lives with this elderly mother.
00:50:16
And the son who had hired her was like, we had no idea. she was a sweet old lady yeah she did some weird shit and she said she liked taking care of my mom
00:50:23
because she had or she liked she was like really motherly to my grandkid to my children who were
00:50:29
daughters because she said she had always wanted a daughter of her own and only had sons oh my so
00:50:34
he didn't believe it for a long time oh okay you know what i mean yeah because like you left you're
00:50:41
like the guilt over leaving your mom with a fucking murderer yeah that'd be pretty high yeah
00:50:45
You got to turn around and face that. Ooh, ooh, ooh. You're not a good judge of character, it turns out.
00:50:49
It turns out you don't know your shit. You thought you were a yank. Engage your gut.
00:50:53
Yeah. Listen to your heart. Eyes open, please. Eyes open. Heart. Make a reference.
00:50:59
See, these days we have LinkedIn. That would never happen. Okay. Go ahead. She's charged with two counts of murder, two counts of conspiracy to commit murder, two
00:51:10
special circumstance charges, multiple murder and multiple murder by torture. William is sentenced to probation
00:51:17
And to undergo therapy For participating in Sheila's murder And in exchange for his testimony
00:51:24
The prosecution dropped all charges Against Robert Save for one count of being an accessory
00:51:29
After the fact in Sheila's murder And also the mom was like I'll plead guilty Teresa was like I'll plead guilty
00:51:35
If you let my sons off Really? Okay here's where I have a hard time with Do the sons deserve anything?
00:51:44
I mean, at what point in their age? I'm not, I feel like I am not qualified to debate that in
00:51:51
any way, except for, I just want to bring it up because I can't give a judgment either way. Well,
00:51:55
my, um, like my first reaction is they don't because they were raised to kill people. This
00:52:03
woman, they had no choice. It was out of fear at that point and mind control that they did it. Yes.
00:52:09
And just the taut reactions of this is normal living. Yeah. But when you say that, then you basically there's so many murderers that you can say that about.
00:52:18
Right. Because they had equally nightmarish childhood. So they could actually. Yeah, exactly.
00:52:24
It's nothing is black and white. Right. So like, yeah, Ted Bundy was like abused and sexually molested, but he still held responsible for what he did.
00:52:32
It's almost like, well, at the point where they're 18 and on, then are they responsible?
00:52:35
No, no, no. I think for Ted Bundy, I think it's like once you've killed your 12th woman, it's on you.
00:52:41
No, I mean, I'm saying these boys, I don't think they would have lived these lives.
00:52:48
Definitely not. They wouldn't have killed their own sisters if their mother didn't make them participate.
00:52:52
Definitely. I would guess that. I mean, that's... Like to me, it's like the beatings and that sort of thing. No, they're not held responsible for that.
00:53:01
But the murder is the same. It's all the mother's doing. I know. And I know people are going to argue with me and be like, you're a victim blaming for sure.
00:53:09
Right. Which I understand. And I'm not saying I'm right. I'm just like, how, what, what point do we, at what point is it, is there a period at the end of their knowledge?
00:53:19
Well, that's what judges and juries and all those, the people that look at all the information, that's the point.
00:53:24
Definitely. Where they go, okay, this is a person that had, you know, was forced into this horrible life, an entire lifestyle.
00:53:33
Is this person that liked it? This is a person that didn't just kill sisters, but then went on and attacked people in the neighborhood or like.
00:53:40
And wanted. And yeah. So Teresa pleads guilty, pleads guilty because of that. And on the condition also that she spared the death penalty.
00:53:52
Just like, fuck you. So now I can be like period about fuck you In October 95 she sentenced to two consecutive life sentences she incarcerated in california institute for women in chino so she fucking in is that the
00:54:06
inland empire she's in the fucking chino yeah i don't know it might be she'll be eligible you
00:54:11
should go there you should go there now and go to id league school she'll be eligible for pearl in
00:54:18
2027 if she lives to see it she'll be 80 years old oh shit she's still alive i wonder if she's
00:54:25
drinking inside in the clink some fucking how some wine some toilet wine would you take a sip
00:54:31
of that if someone made you not made you but if you were like dared no i don't really respond to
00:54:37
daring that's not my jam yeah you don't seem like a person who no would be challenged no no uh
00:54:44
I mean, are you saying, would I even be curious about the experience of what toilet wine tastes like?
00:54:52
I guess the word toilet is hard now. It ruins it. I mean, would I have eaten- Prison wine in a bucket, maybe.
00:55:00
Prison wine in a bucket that's quite clean. The first time ever the bucket was used was for the prison wine.
00:55:05
Yeah, which I'm sure they have access to clean buckets. Then yes, we get, yeah, I'm sure there's a whole program set up.
00:55:10
but I would want to taste what non-toilet created prison wine tasted like. I agree.
00:55:18
And that would be fascinating. I can't imagine there's a ton of prisoners who are like,
00:55:23
yes, to toilet wine themselves. I'm an alcoholic, but I won't fucking drink. No,
00:55:28
I'm going to say no to toilet wine. Who knows? Who knows? I mean, but anyway, you got to do what you got to do.
00:55:34
Fuck Teresa Knorr. God, that was crazy. She's awful. Awful. I don't. Yeah. So I, yeah, let's watch the cold case file.
00:55:44
I will. And did you know they're all, they're all streaming on, you can get them on demand somewhere,
00:55:51
not on demand, but like on your DVR. No, wait. On like if you have Roku or Apple or whatever.
00:55:57
Oh yeah. Every single one is on except for that one. Are you serious? I had to go to YouTube to find it.
00:56:03
It's on YouTube. It's so dark. It makes it extra dark when you're from the place where you hear the story.
00:56:08
because you can picture, I can picture her house dress. I kept asking, like, in it, I was like,
00:56:13
I'm going to ask Karen where this is. This is insane. Yeah. I can picture her house dress, like a flowery nurse's,
00:56:18
like, big, dirty, kind of like country powder blue. Yeah, like little tiny flowers on it.
00:56:26
Yeah. Slippers. Essentially what I fucking wear every day. Let's be honest. Oh, man, it's dark.
00:56:34
She bought it at pick and save. It's dark. It's dark. There's bad vibes. Okay, we're back. Are there any updates on this case?
00:56:44
I have some updates on this horrifying story. After dispersing, Terry and Teresa both lived in Salt Lake City but didn't know the other was there.
00:56:53
Terry was working at a grocery store in the neighborhood that Teresa lived in prior to her arrest.
00:56:58
And after Teresa's arrest, she was investigated for the 1983 unsolved murder case of her older sister, Rosemary Norris, who was found strangled to death.
00:57:07
The police determined she was uninvolved with this murder and it remains unsolved.
00:57:12
How frustrating. Terry Knorr died in 2011 at age 41. It's such a dark story. I know.
00:57:19
Like those early ones that we did. Yeah. It's just the worst of humanity. Truly.
00:57:24
So crazy. Like no, no nothing. Right. Yeah. Well, speaking of, let's get into Karen's true crime stories featuring Persian mommy,
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boostmobile.com. Well, these are just, um, because people very often tweet us, have you read this?
01:00:19
Have you seen this? And there are things that are happening modern day. Right. And they're often
01:00:23
like the craziest or the most fascinating kind of true crime of today. And, uh, we don't always
01:00:30
talk about it, which I know it's like, uh, it's what a lot of people are in it for.
01:00:35
Yeah. And I, I wish we could do, there's so many of those. I'm like, this is insane,
01:00:38
but there's no details yet. Exactly. It's a, it's a breaking story. Right. So what I did was I started my, this week's murder, um, didn't, I wasn't making any good,
01:00:49
kind of like strategic decisions as I was watching the case because I stumbled upon
01:00:56
a BBC show that it was a Reddit. It was a Reddit link to a BBC show called BBC Horizons that I
01:01:06
think has been on in England for a long time. This is what it looked like because there's like each
01:01:12
each one had different opening credits that one looked like 1978 and one looked like the 90s.
01:01:17
It's like they're, they're unsolved mysteries. It's been on forever. And so it was like the mystery of blank.
01:01:22
So like there's a thing in Florida called the Florida circle. I don't know if you've ever heard of that, but that I was watching half of that when
01:01:28
I was like, stop watching TV. Cause it was like, Oh my God, can you get it online?
01:01:33
I mean, where can you get it? You can, it's just put into, see, here's the problem.
01:01:38
It was a Reddit link. So I was watching off of that and then suddenly the title started turning Russian writing.
01:01:44
And then at one point I tried to click off and then it turned into like a Russian looking Facebook page.
01:01:51
Uh oh. Did she get hacked? It said something like the name of it. It wasn't Facebook.
01:01:56
It was like OK Summertime. And I was like, oh, I should throw this computer away now.
01:02:00
Absolutely. They're watching you. But I only have half my script done. So I have to keep it for a little while.
01:02:07
But I mean like, yeah, I made a terrible, you don't click links on Reddit. But I did.
01:02:13
Yes, you do. Well, anyway, it's fun party. It's it makes it exciting. So so anyway, the story that I was watching and going to do isn't really a murder. Like it's a lot of it's a fascinating story about a mummy that they found in in Iran that or the seller was in Iran that had it.
01:02:39
And it turned out it was from Pakistan. And it was very newsworthy because the only mummies have ever been from Egypt.
01:02:50
Egypt is the only place that did ancient mummification rituals. So this one might have been stolen?
01:02:56
Well, they didn't know. And it was kind of weird and different. And then you see it.
01:03:01
It drew me in so quickly. And then it was like, but it was, it turned into a like ancient Persia fucking Xerxes.
01:03:10
Like it was the, the, the reading, the cuneiform writing on it said that it was the daughter
01:03:17
of Xerxes, um, who was the ruler of the, of the Persian empire. I mean, it's all this shit.
01:03:24
I have no idea what I'm actually saying right now. You sound really smart. The BBC can do that for you.
01:03:29
Yeah, they can. I'm going to watch this. One special. Anyway, it turned out, so this woman who's actually, I mean, I guess I'll just, I wasn't going to talk about this one at all, but it's really cool because the woman who started looking into it was a scientist named Asma Abraham.
01:03:50
And she taught herself how to read cuneiform so that she could figure out what it said on the stone coffin part.
01:03:58
Oh my God. And then that's how she figured out. It said, I'm the daughter of Xerxes.
01:04:02
So it was this Persian princess from the ancient Persian empire. And, but then she was like looking at all the details, whatever she's sending things
01:04:10
off to experts all around the world. So they have the cuneiform expert in London.
01:04:15
They have, they send the mat that's underneath the actual mummy off to, um, to get carbon
01:04:22
dated. Um, they do all these things. Right. And then there is a scientist that's in, I think it said he's the leading archaeologist in Iran.
01:04:35
And he's the one that came out and said, we don't have mummies in Iran and they don't have them in Pakistan.
01:04:41
They are only from Egypt. Therefore, if this is a Persian princess, then that changes like history books.
01:04:52
That means that there must be, it was just this whole thing, right? Well, then as the information starts to come back and this Dr. Ibrahim is investigating everything, she's starting to notice little like quirky things are standing out.
01:05:08
Yeah. So the cuneiform looks weird. And she, you know, that's why she sent it to the guy in London that was the expert.
01:05:14
and she you know there's like that little differences in the mummification process
01:05:22
or whatever and eventually they come to find out they send it off to get x-rayed
01:05:29
because they were like well in the Egyptian mummification process they empty out the
01:05:34
body of the internal organs they dry out the inner body they put a drying agent in it
01:05:40
they put the heart back in because the heart is where the heart is where your brain they believed your brain was so when
01:05:48
cram that brain out you got to have that brain they pull your actual brain out through your nose
01:05:52
right yep they stick a thing in there and they basically mix your brain around until it jelly and your brain runs out your nose No no no no no no Yes And but you still have your heart which is your real brain which I thought was very
01:06:07
beautiful. Yeah. And so when they x-rayed it, the heart was in there. It was no, there were no internal organs.
01:06:14
It was all the things the brain was, you know, whatever, but they start to notice like the
01:06:19
Egyptians, it was very, it's like surgical precision. So the incision that they would make to take the inner organs out was three inches.
01:06:27
This one was eight on this body. So it's a novice. Right. They, um, the Egyptians would go up the nose to do that mixing thing with the brain.
01:06:37
They, um, this mummy had broken all these bones up in the palate. So they had done it.
01:06:43
It's not the way, because this was like a sacred ritual. So they don't just like fuck it up.
01:06:49
Right. Especially if it's like a princess. Especially. Yes, exactly. Especially Xerxes' daughter. He was, from according to that one movie, he was humongous.
01:07:00
Okay, so then Dr. Asma Ibrahim finds pencil lines on the outer wooden box. Pencils were invented 250 years ago.
01:07:15
for 300 years ago i think she said or they said uh lead lead pencils yeah yeah uh so they're like
01:07:24
this is a total this is bullshit then they get them the carbon dating from the mat that was
01:07:29
underneath the mummy back and it was made 50 years ago so they're like what the fuck is this
01:07:35
so then they get a doctor to cut it open and oh also they they had taken ct scans
01:07:41
just so they could see inside like the x-ray the x-ray shows you like through but then the
01:07:48
ct scans it's like if you got cut all the way down they can see each individual slice yes and
01:07:54
that's how they discovered that the body that had been mummified the spine was broken in two places
01:07:59
at the neck and at the lower back and oh my god oh my god yeah so they're like okay this is not
01:08:06
this Persian princess what was her name like Rodriga or something really hard to pronounce
01:08:13
and they open up the mummy and you can see it on this show they show it? my toes are curling
01:08:22
cut it open this doctor they just saw it open like with a bone sock because it's mummified?
01:08:29
well because the outer cloth that the mummy is wrapped in so you're bandaged like a Halloween mummy
01:08:35
inside. Your arms are crossed over your chest. That's how you know it's royalty. And then,
01:08:42
and then they wrap the whole body in a resin saturated cloth. So it hardens. And that's what makes it hard. So to cut that open, they pull it apart and it had gray hair
01:08:54
and it was a woman. And, um, they actually made a computer generated image of what her face might
01:09:02
look like based on so cool and they do that i know right based on the skull and then based on
01:09:07
the area that she that they said it was found which was near the afghan border they're like
01:09:13
women of this age usually look like this yeah yeah so now they have a murder case on their hands
01:09:18
shut your fuck so when is she from what's that when is she when is she from she had only died
01:09:23
uh so they can't they mummified the body um like when they discovered all this they backdated. It was like she'd only died four years ago or something.
01:09:37
So someone went and got their fucking mat from their back porch. Yep. Wait, let me see.
01:09:45
I don't know why that's just such a weird part to me where it's like, oh, we got to put her on a mat.
01:09:50
Yeah, why they didn't. Oh, she died in 1996. Holy shit. That's what they found out.
01:09:55
But I can't remember. I don't have it where that compares to. But basically what happened is in the mummification process, they had to collect all their, they had to make their plan.
01:10:08
They had to assemble the team of stonemasons and these foragers and all these people that would be able to make this mummy look so realistic.
01:10:16
Because when you see it, it's actually really beautiful and cool looking. There's like, they have this gold, it's like a crown of cypress trees as her crown.
01:10:24
Wow. And then this face mask that they basically made. it's based on a different mummy very early mummy's face mask so it doesn't look like king tut yeah
01:10:34
it's much more like handmade looking it's really cool um they basically just had these perfect
01:10:42
forgers and then just made these little tiny mistakes people were in on it a lot of people
01:10:47
were in on it and then they don't know if they robbed a grave to get like the freshest body or
01:10:50
if they killed somebody but the person who died died violently which is why they think it was a
01:10:56
it's a murder case. I am in shock right now. Isn't it nuts? That is the craziest story.
01:11:03
Here's the other thing. Since this, since this time, two more quote unquote Persian mummies
01:11:09
have been offered on the black market for $6 million each. When this one showed up first,
01:11:15
and it was sell a mummy. What's that? You can sell a mummy on the black market, the black market,
01:11:21
the antiquities market, the black market for antiquities. You can do anything you want because
01:11:25
It's just people robbing places and then selling these artifacts. That's why they're tomb robbers and shit.
01:11:32
Right. But this mummy was estimated, they were getting prices up to a billion dollars because this
01:11:39
mummy was so groundbreaking of like, oh my God, there's never been a Persian mummy before.
01:11:44
This has never happened. Well, I wonder if they'd even buy it if they knew it was a fake because it's just done so
01:11:48
well. Well, but it's done so well, but there's a murdered body inside of it. Yeah.
01:11:55
Yeah, but yeah. People who buy black market mummies shit yeah i think they'd still want it to be a legit mummy because also then you're spending all
01:12:04
that money they're spending that money for the history of it they want that like this is from
01:12:09
the sands of time or whatever someone would take a fucking fat discount to be like no this is just
01:12:13
a really well done forge a re but of a dead person hey man they're like yeah give me some coke while
01:12:22
you're while you're in this i'm here oh because they're just into bad stuff because they're black
01:12:25
market buyers and sellers as like scary spies. Like they're not, it's not, it's not historians.
01:12:36
Not in the least. You know what? You, you just provided me my transition. Now I'm going to tell
01:12:41
you this next story. Did you hear about this one? The 20 year old British model who, um,
01:12:47
she went to Milan because she believed that she had gotten a modeling job and, uh,
01:12:54
I bet she did and it went great. Yeah, it went great. And now she is Carla Devigny.
01:13:01
I don't know how to say her name. No, she had an agent that sent her. And the agent, whose name is Phil Green, said that this was a recognized studio in the city center of Milan.
01:13:14
So he didn't think he was sending her to some fly by night thing. Plus, you're like, someone's paying to send me to Milan.
01:13:22
This has to be legit. Yeah. When she gets there, a man grabs her by the neck. One man grabs her by the neck.
01:13:30
Another one injects her with a dose of anesthetic of ketamine. So much of it that it knocks her to the ground.
01:13:38
Then she gets put into a suitcase. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Not small places, please.
01:13:43
Yes. Small places? Yep. Oh. And then they drive her around winding unpaved roads for more than two hours,
01:13:52
bound hand and foot with tape across her mouth. Oh my God. She's taken to a rural house in Northern Italy and she's kept handcuffed to a wooden dresser.
01:14:03
And then she is put on sale online on the dark web. Dude, this dark web. The dark web.
01:14:12
She's put on sale, but then at the same time, a ransom demand gets sent to her agent for
01:14:18
$300,000. Okay, so he knows at this point. For how much? three hundred thousand dollars that's not a lot of money uh right i mean yeah you'd think if you're
01:14:28
gonna do a crime like this you might want to what if he's like okay just shoot for the moon yeah uh
01:14:34
so she when she's stuck there she tells him she has a child the person the man that's there
01:14:46
um and so then he puts her back in the suitcase i don't know yeah i think he does and drives her
01:14:55
to the british embassy in milan why is this funny he drops her off at the british embassy
01:15:03
yeah and he reported that um killing mothers was against the rules of the shadowy criminal
01:15:13
organization that this guy belonged to. What? They end up arresting him. He is...
01:15:19
Wait, so wait, they were going to sell her for sex or to be murdered? Like, this was
01:15:23
someone they were selling to get killed. Do they sell people just to be killed? Probably, yeah.
01:15:30
I don't know. I don't either. I'm sure for sex or to be a sex slave or to be trafficked.
01:15:37
Right. Have some terrible thing happen. It's so sad because if we're hearing about
01:15:41
this story, there's a million others that didn't end up right how many people that don't have agents that don't have anybody that
01:15:47
are like oh somebody thinks i'm a model or money to pay ransom yeah oh my god um so the guy's name
01:15:54
is lucas powell herba and he's from uh he's a polish citizen with british residency and he's
01:16:03
the one that drops her off and then he later gets arrested um my god and uh they also were holding
01:16:11
her passport so she couldn't leave the country until she gave evidence at her pre-trial hearing
01:16:16
what because when she when she told the story they didn't believe her are you fucking they
01:16:21
wouldn't let her go home right because they were like we have to see what's going on we don't
01:16:26
understand what this is all about and then it turned out that her her agent the the cops like
01:16:32
everybody were and then the guy that did it were all telling the exact same story and they were
01:16:36
like okay it really happened i apologized say you're sorry that's what's important milan say
01:16:42
you're sorry okay wow that's awful are you ready for the next one absolutely and steven tell me
01:16:50
how tell me when i go too long because i because it might be too long no okay um four hours later
01:16:57
For real. So this is my favorite because for like in the early 2000s, there was a viral video that like an apartment website put out that had a girl.
01:17:15
It looked like night vision video. And it was a girl coming out of a cupboard in an apartment in New York.
01:17:22
And it was this story, quote unquote, was that she was living in the apartment and they didn't know.
01:17:28
Well, that was all viral. That was all fake. Oh, it was. Yeah. And she crawled out in the scariest way.
01:17:33
Yeah. And I was when we found that video and didn't know, we watched it at work 50 times.
01:17:41
We would just stand around screaming and watching. It was amazing. I mean, it was an amazing piece of literature, fiction.
01:17:49
Yeah. Well here a story I found This happened in Pittsburgh Jerome Kennedy decided to install a camera inside his attic after he was hearing noises coming from the ceiling above his bedroom That according to police He called them a few
01:18:10
days earlier because he heard someone up there at night, but they didn't find anything. So he
01:18:17
decided to put cameras in his attic. What would you do? To see what was going on. I would leave.
01:18:22
and everything i certainly wouldn't take the time to put cameras in but he did it um and
01:18:29
he when he gets the footage back the footage shows his neighbor robert harvilla havrilla crawling through the attic so they're they live in um like a
01:18:46
like a condo thing where they share a wall and he has gone up into his attic and then crawled over
01:18:53
into this guy's side and um he's carrying in the video you can see him it's so fucking creepy
01:19:01
he's carrying a drill and a light and then he just lies on the vent that overlooks kennedy's bed
01:19:09
and his daughter's crib for about, what does that say? For about 30 minutes. So he just looks through the vent for half an hour.
01:19:20
You're just being watched sleeping. Yeah. What if he just was like, I just, it relaxes me.
01:19:28
A nice, a sweet baby, a little sweet baby. I like to see other people's lives. I'm not perverted.
01:19:33
Not even when they're awake. I just want to see how happy they look when they're sleeping.
01:19:37
The man who did its attorney, who got caught on video, told the Washington Post that he has no criminal record whatsoever.
01:19:47
And they're making this seem like a negative situation, but it's really not. There are some things that haven't been said that'll clear everything up eventually.
01:19:54
Oh, OK. So what are some of those things? Like fear mentally? He was installing a mobile for that baby.
01:20:04
But he just wanted to make sure. Can you imagine walking into your daughter's bedroom in the morning and there's just a mobile that's not...
01:20:12
That you didn't put there. A surprise mobile. With the scariest music. It's just all fucking skeletons and nightmares.
01:20:22
It's just got nightmares. I mean, I just... God bless. That's my favorite. Like, that's my favorite.
01:20:29
Did he go to jail? Do they still live next door to each other? I mean, he didn't do anything wrong, according to his lawyer.
01:20:34
Why would he go to jail? It's a super positive situation. It's not negative, it's positive.
01:20:39
To be crawling in the attic with a drill. With a drill. Oh. Okay. Here's the last one.
01:20:46
This is insane and awful. And you probably heard about it because a bunch of people sent us this one from the BBC News.
01:20:55
Oh, that, sorry, that was from the Washington Post. The story of the man in the attic was from the Washington Post.
01:21:00
Okay. And the first, the mummy's from BBC Horizon, the Horizon series, My new favorite show
01:21:06
There's stuff on it was so cool I want to watch all of them It reminds me of, Stephen, what was that book you got us?
01:21:14
The Lifetime Mysteries of the Unexplained Yeah, yeah From the cover, like the leather covers
01:21:21
Time Life Series That's what it reminds me of Can I tell you my new favorite show?
01:21:26
Really quickly, I meant to tell you about this earlier It's called Suddenly Rich
01:21:29
It's like on TLC And it's just people who suddenly get a windfall and it's like these and how they can't handle it how happy it makes their lives it's just like if
01:21:39
you are reading about murder and you need a positive thing oh it's like one guy who like
01:21:43
you had to throw at a basketball game all these like shots and if you did you won all this money
01:21:48
and he was like a poor kid from like south america who had come on a scholarship and had to work his
01:21:53
ass off and then like suddenly won this money and this woman who found like a painting in the trash
01:21:57
in new york and it was worth a million like it's just like super cool show there's the best dude
01:22:02
finding like did you see the documentary about the lady who found the jackson pollock painting
01:22:07
yeah no i didn't see it but it was similar to that where it's just like famous artist and it
01:22:11
turned out it was stolen and all this crazy shit yes that's cool so suddenly rich suddenly
01:22:15
when you need a fucking break it's not about my uncle rich okay um okay so this one is fucked up
01:22:23
it this uh it happened in denmark um a respected freelance journalist named kim wall who was
01:22:30
researching a feature about a man named Peter Madsen who had built his own private 40 ton
01:22:36
submarine what called the UC3 Nautilus yes oh I did hear this one um he built that through
01:22:44
crowdfunding in 2008 and she went down to meet him to take a tour it doesn't it's not supposed
01:22:51
to like hold people but like you they can show she was writing about it according yes it was like
01:22:56
he was doing like she was doing like a human interest piece that's what's so troubling to
01:22:59
me about this one is that like i wouldn't be like don't go alone it's like you're a journalist and
01:23:04
you're writing a piece about this person a person who runs two companies yeah seem and is a very
01:23:10
relatively public figure in his country for as much as we're like be careful don't trust anyone
01:23:15
it's like but yeah there's certain situations where you'd be like well of course it's fine
01:23:18
it's her job but okay so um so she meets him there she's last seen alive august 10th
01:23:26
as she departs with Mr. Madsen on his self-made underwater vessel. She met around 7 o'clock on Thursday in the harbor area of Copenhagen,
01:23:39
and she got on the submarine. The last picture of the two of them were in the sub's conning tower,
01:23:47
taken by a man from a cruise ship. So they saw the little submarine out there and people were taking pictures I didn know that There a photo of them Of the two of them on the subway yeah Yeah And it like right before sunset
01:24:07
And I mean, this is all on the internet. You can see all these pictures. But then Kim Wall's partner reported her missing the next morning.
01:24:17
I believe it was 2.30 in the morning when she never came back from this trip. So initially, Peter Madsen told everybody that he had dropped Niswal off after dark that night at the Halvandet restaurant on the northern tip of Riff Chalion, very close to where they originally met.
01:24:44
Did you buy that? It was good. Hey, guys, I dropped her off. There's people in Denmark laughing so hard.
01:24:48
I know. Do people want to listen to this? I dropped her off of a restaurant. No big deal.
01:24:52
The restaurant owner, Bo Peterson, said that the area is very covered by CCTV and he handed
01:24:59
the video footage to the police. Soon after that, Peter Madsen changed his story.
01:25:04
Then he said that there was an accident on the submarine while they were on it and he
01:25:11
had to bury her body at sea. What the? That alone, like if that were true, it's just the most, it's insane.
01:25:19
If that were true, the first story wouldn't have happened. Right. Because you would immediately pull out and be like, I'm so traumatized.
01:25:25
This horrible thing happened. Yeah. Ten days later, a headless torso that had been weighted down with metal is found in the waters off of Denmark and is identified as Kim Wall.
01:25:36
Oh, no. Um, they believe that Mr. Madsen deliberately sank his 40 ton submarine hours after the search for her began.
01:25:46
Oh my God. So, uh, so here's the bad part. Um, the torso, um, the arms, legs, and head were removed from the body, uh, as a result of deliberate cutting.
01:26:01
um and which means that he did that to her in his submarine which probably means he planned to do it
01:26:13
because how what would you have that would cut a person on a submarine why would you have that
01:26:20
handy i mean i don't know i don't know submarines maybe there's an answer but Like, did you bring a hacksaw onto your submarine?
01:26:27
Yeah. The lead investigator also revealed that the blood found on the sunken submarine was confirmed as Kim Walls.
01:26:39
Mr. Madsen's lawyer said he does not confess to anything and pleads not guilty. It wasn't a negative thing.
01:26:44
Yeah. The DNA match doesn't change my client's explanation that an accident happened.
01:26:49
Yeah. What could have happened? Right. This guy is the skipper and designer of the UC3 Nautilus, a privately owned submarine.
01:27:04
And reports describe him as a hobby engineer. It's not clear what his background or training is.
01:27:12
While building his own crowdfunded submarine, which is insane. It's like you guys, there's charities that you can crowd, you can give money to.
01:27:20
Give me money to make my own adult boy submarine. So he gets it built. Then he has volunteers and people working on it with him.
01:27:34
But then in 2008, he moves on to what they call a more lofty ambition, space exploration.
01:27:40
So he's like Denmark's Elon Musk, essentially. so he's now running the rocket Madsen space laboratory
01:27:49
which is also funded a laboratory filled with aluminum and that's also funded by donations
01:28:00
the aim is to launch a rocket from a floating platform in the Baltic and send a person into outer space
01:28:07
again so many hungry children I mean do we need to keep giving money to fuck it I mean, it really doesn't seem like it.
01:28:17
So it turned out that he was, they were talking about that he had a dispute with the group of volunteers that were maintaining the sub, and he left them this message on a website.
01:28:31
You may think that a curse is lying on the Nautilus. That curse is me. There will not be peace on Nautilus for as long as I exist.
01:28:41
Wow. Oh, what a creep. And seemingly he's talking about like these volunteers and some kind of fight that they all got in together or something.
01:28:50
Yeah. Yeah. That is so crazy. Isn't that awful? Yeah. And creepy. And the weird thing is like, if that were why, why take off her head and limbs?
01:29:07
Like clearly you're hiding something. Yes. Shit. Whew, we are back from some epic stories.
01:29:17
Such a bad idea. Doing that many? So, it's just so clear I'm trying to cover my ass having not done my homework.
01:29:25
Where it's just like, I have a little bit of this over here, I have a little bit of that over there.
01:29:28
We're going to mix them all together and try to make this true crime podcast work.
01:29:32
And so, how old were you when you got diagnosed with ADHD? Never. They won't help me.
01:29:38
I've known you for a long. I think I've known you long enough to be able to diagnose you if I want to.
01:29:42
Clearly and hell yeah. It's been like this since I was about eight years old. And they just said that you were a bad kid or you couldn't sit still or you wouldn't pay attention.
01:29:52
They didn't really talk about me much. You know what I mean That the problem I was just kind of the second one that was also there and sometimes mouth off And then mostly it was like go outside I have every kind of med if you want to try them
01:30:06
We can just do like Monday. Monday we can do Vyvanse. Tuesday we can do Adderall.
01:30:12
Oh, I've done my share of Adderall. You're like, why do I feel normal now? And I'm like, okay, stop it.
01:30:18
Literally. Just truly balancing myself out while other people are freaking. I freaked my friend out one time.
01:30:24
We are doing drugs and I was so calm. And he was like, why are you like this? And I'm like, I don't know.
01:30:29
I feel great. I feel normal for the first time in my life. I love this lifestyle.
01:30:33
I know. Listen, don't self-medicate. Okay. I have a great psychiatrist. Okay. So here's the updates for this slop.
01:30:42
Listen, I have two jobs at this point. No, I'm not. I have two full-time jobs. You're fine.
01:30:47
Okay. So the Persian princess, there's no update for that case. No one has solved the murder of the woman who was mummified.
01:30:54
unfortunately. Chloe Ayling, in this case, the person who kidnapped Chloe with the help of his
01:31:00
brother Michael is Lucas Herba, if I'm pronouncing that correctly. And he said he claimed he had
01:31:06
fallen in love with Ayling and that the two had allegedly staged the kidnapping together to ease
01:31:11
her financial struggles following the birth of her son. A lot of quotes from him here.
01:31:16
In June 2018, he was sentenced to 16 years and eight months in prison. Of course, he made an
01:31:23
The sentence was reduced to five years, eight months. He was released in 2022. Chloe continues to model and she was on Celebrity Big Brother UK in 2022. And she also published a memoir called Kidnapped, The Untold Story of My Abduction.
01:31:39
In 2024, the BBC aired a six-part series called Kidnapped, the Chloe Ayling story, the creepiest story of all of the man crawling around other people's air ducts so he can stare at a baby.
01:31:53
That man, Robert Hevrila, was found guilty of one count of criminal trespassing, and he was sentenced to probation and a fine.
01:32:01
Straight to jail, as they say. I mean, there's a lot of things to be taken into consideration on that one where it's like it was your obsession to go look at a baby.
01:32:10
Yeah. Every time you say that, I cringe. Yeah. Well, then we can move on to the Kim Wall story.
01:32:16
But I just want everyone listening to know this, that I did not do justice to the Kim Wall story in this.
01:32:22
And I did cover it again in more detail and fully in episode 126. So we're going to rewind that at some point where we're rewinding a story we already did.
01:32:33
I love that every once in a while there'll be a story where we're like, this sounds familiar.
01:32:37
I think we covered this. And it's like, you did, but you did it really badly. Right, right.
01:32:41
So this was this time. Essentially, in January 2018, Madsen was charged with murder, indecent handling of a corpse, sexual assault.
01:32:50
He was sentenced to life imprisonment in April of the same year. In October of 2020, he attempted to escape from prison after threatening an employee.
01:32:59
He was caught. He was brought back. The following year, he was sentenced to 21 months in prison for the attempted escape.
01:33:05
And then in 2020, there was a six-part TV series called The Investigation, and that detailed the indictment and the investigation into him.
01:33:14
And then in March of 2022, there was a two-part documentary called Undercurrent, The Disappearance of Kim Wall.
01:33:20
and in September of the same year, Netflix had their own documentary called Into the Deep,
01:33:25
The Submarine Murder Case. And I think that's when it really blew up that, of course,
01:33:31
that Netflix documentary. So there's that. I really tried to like, I think I tried to do all Kim Wall for that
01:33:38
and I realized I didn't have enough information. And so then I tagged on a bunch of ones
01:33:42
that I had already started. That's okay. I apologize to you and I apologize to all of the world,
01:33:48
I guess, for always being a half-asser of homework on a podcast where it's all homework all the time.
01:33:56
Turned out okay. God damn it. All right, let's head back in and we'll wrap up the show.
01:34:04
Oh, I didn't think of a positive thing this week. Oh, yeah, you have to think of one.
01:34:07
Okay. You know what? I'm really excited for our tour. No, that's not fair. Fuck, okay.
01:34:12
That's not a thing that happened to you. You're right. That's the future. Well, I was going to say,
01:34:17
I went bowling at this tiny bowling alley in Montrose. And it, did I show you that picture?
01:34:23
It's the cutest. It's like almost a third of the size of a normal bowling alley.
01:34:29
And it's totally from like the early sixties, maybe late fifties. Oh my God. And it's not all modernized.
01:34:35
No, no, not at all. And it's like, um, it was Dave Anthony's birthday. Yeah. And, uh, it was super fun, but they, like, you can rent it out for private parties.
01:34:46
Oh my God. Where's Montrose? It's the one that's kind of up. So once again, up in the hills, it's kind of by Altadena.
01:34:52
Okay. Basically, if you just drive right above Glendale. Sure, sure, sure. Oh, okay.
01:34:56
And it was just perfect. It was like my favorite party because there was chatting and lots of people that I love.
01:35:03
And there wasn't like crazy loud music so you can't talk to anyone like at a bar.
01:35:06
No. And also people would bowl, but then they would stop bowling because, you know, you only want
01:35:10
to do that for a certain amount of time. I love bowling alley parties. Yeah. That's a great idea.
01:35:14
I think I might have a party there. I'm going. Can I come? You're like, actually, no, you're not.
01:35:19
I just invited myself to. Steven told me not to invite you. I just invited myself to your party.
01:35:24
You're automatically invited to the party. Yay. Yeah. I'm automatically coming, so it's a positive.
01:35:30
Okay, good. My dad came over today and helped me with my finances. Oh, how was that?
01:35:34
It was good. He didn't yell. There was a moment where I could hear the tension in his voice.
01:35:39
I also don't think he knew what he was doing. Right. I think in the long run, all it was was someone was sitting there with me saying,
01:35:45
you have to do this now and there were 14 times where if I had been on my own you would have just walked away there were 14 times like I'm just gonna do this later I'm just
01:35:54
not gonna do this and he was like well let's just do this and then we can do that and I like ended up
01:36:00
doing it. That's great. And it worked. That's great. Yeah. And it just made me, made me happy that there's a huge weight lifted off your shoulders, huge weight, but also like
01:36:08
kind of gave me that like, Oh, dad, that's what dads are for. That's right. He didn't know what
01:36:13
he was doing. He was like, I was going to be a CPA and a, and a something and a money lawyer with
01:36:18
our tax lawyer. And I dropped out and I'm like, what the fuck are you doing here? I thought,
01:36:22
you know what you were doing? He's like, I'm not really good with numbers. I thought you were.
01:36:25
Did he really say that? That's so funny. But he ended up just sitting there while I did a bunch
01:36:29
of things. And like, I had someone to, I was like, well, this number is this. And he was like,
01:36:33
he just sat there and it was great. That's so good. So it was a really nice. And yeah,
01:36:37
my dad was, um, very patient when I went through my extreme financial crisis. Cause I never said a
01:36:44
word to him about it because he is so paranoid about money and he's so he's been on it. Like
01:36:50
he used to lecture me about, you have to make sure you get your taxes done from when I was like in
01:36:55
junior high. It was just like a reminder. It would be like, and never you don't want the government after you. He'd always
01:37:01
say shit like that. That's such a dad. My dad did that too. My dad got me my first
01:37:05
bank account. It's what they do. It's what they're into. He's like braces and a bank account. That's what I
01:37:11
can provide you. Not a ton of affection. Not good life advice because my life isn't
01:37:17
in shambles. Well, that's good. That makes me, I get a lot of relief from that. You do too because it's also
01:37:23
your finances because it's my favorite murder finances that I screwed up royally. You get,
01:37:29
you have a bonus in that we're not going to get arrested. Yes, that's very true. But also you,
01:37:36
here's your bonus in me. I could never judge you if you were like, Hey, sorry, I lost everything.
01:37:43
I'd be like, Oh, well, I actually said that today. I said that today where he, he was like,
01:37:49
you got it. You should make sure. Cause if some of it was my favorite murder stuff, he was like,
01:37:52
you should make sure Karen can see all this. So she knows like you're playing her well. And I'm
01:37:57
like, Oh no, she knows. She knows. And she knows how fucked I've made it. And she's cool with it.
01:38:04
Yep. So like huge weight off my shoulders that you are okay with it. Of course. Here's the thing
01:38:10
at the end of the day. And I'm not, this sounds phony. It's only money. Now when I don't have
01:38:15
money I don really feel that way No No one does No one does But truly people do such terrible fucking things to themselves and to each other because of money I seen it happen It very bad
01:38:29
And when people are focused on that, because at the end of the day, think of it, you get a check.
01:38:34
Obviously, a lot of us are in, you get into a bad place where you're like, yes, $5,000 would solve this, this and this.
01:38:40
That's true. But if you were, if you were above level, and then you had a $5,000 check, this is what happened to me when I worked, when I had my first big job.
01:38:47
All I did was work. And so I had absolutely no life and I just collected money and bought
01:38:55
cashmere sweaters from J.Crew. That's all I did. Because you thought you had to spend it because you were working so hard.
01:39:01
It was the only thing I could figure out to do to like, oh, maybe this will make me happy. So I had
01:39:06
cashmere sweaters in every color and I was more miserable than I've ever been in my life.
01:39:11
And that's when I learned that lesson of like, I wasn't doing standup. I wasn't performing. I was
01:39:16
just a behind the scenes behind the camera person that was giving all of my creativity to someone
01:39:21
else and it was fucking killing me so it didn't matter how many fucking cashmere sweaters i had
01:39:27
showed up in at work because you showed up at a miserable job yeah you know my thing too is that
01:39:31
like i've been poor before i've like pretty much up until i was 32 been pretty paycheck been paycheck
01:39:39
to paycheck from childhood on yeah and it's not the fucking you you still can have happiness and
01:39:45
and survive. A hundred percent. You're not, not happy because you don't have money.
01:39:48
It sucks. And there is a part of you that's unhappy because of it, but you still get to have positive life experiences.
01:39:54
So money, not having money is not going to take that away from us. That's right.
01:39:57
Well, and also sometimes when you have to get a little creative, you can have better and more rich life experiences because you're actually
01:40:03
kind of in the mix. Whereas I think sometimes when you have money and security, you,
01:40:08
you become very isolated and you also start living lives that other people can't relate to.
01:40:13
Yeah. So you're just you're just kind of like, you know, we're fucking tenacious.
01:40:18
Or what was the other one? Resilient. Resilient. This is why I'll always support all the murderinos who make shit on Etsy and sell it.
01:40:25
Like my favorite murder stuff. Hell yeah. Because like, I wish I had had that when I was fucking broke.
01:40:30
Yeah. Make that fucking money. You guys create your awesome art projects. And your cool shit.
01:40:36
Calligraphy. Yeah. Write up some shit. Amazing. Just don't, don't, there's one person who's selling our logo on something.
01:40:43
Oh no you have to make it You have to make it You have to make it You have to earn it And don be afraid to give us credit since it is our show Just plug our show is all we ask Which they do Don pretend
01:40:55
you fucking made it up. Give us credit. Take your money. Take your dirty blood money. Literally.
01:41:07
Okay, we're back. I want to say, I don't say anymore I was poor because I say I was broke.
01:41:13
that's my lingo now and I just want to say like make that known I think being white and having
01:41:20
that privilege and knowing that makes it so I had privilege and poor isn't the word I want to use
01:41:27
you know we didn't grow up with money at all I you know we struggled but well in the context
01:41:32
that's what happens anytime you pull the context out and you include everybody in it right you
01:41:37
immediately if you understand like the white privilege puts you in a different place that's
01:41:42
And that's great to say. Yeah. I mean, and so many little things that my parents even cared that I had a good education.
01:41:48
Like, I know those things made it so that I wasn't systemically poor. Yeah. I, we were broke.
01:41:55
Right. You know what I mean? Yes, totally. Also, I just want to say that you say you don't have one, a positive thing that week.
01:42:02
And then I'm like, you have to do it. And then you give one and I'm like, not good enough.
01:42:06
so you know i would like to i would like to acknowledge my privilege and being able to
01:42:12
think of things easily and then when you say i don't know if i can i'm like do it do it again
01:42:19
that made me laugh well yeah i don't think it's the worst thing to like force someone to think of
01:42:23
positive things in their life let's put it that way yeah you have them it's a good like a reset
01:42:28
just like in the way you're saying like if you can reset the lens through which you look at your
01:42:34
childhood or the lens through which you look at your experience, it's easier to kind of stay up
01:42:39
or get up. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Look at that. Look at us. My medication's working. Hey, give me some.
01:42:45
Give me that psychiatrist number. Everyone, her name is Cheryl. No, I'm not going to give it to
01:42:49
you. All right. Okay. We're going into what we would name this episode now. It was originally
01:42:54
named Harvard, too. Can't beat it. Sorry. What else is there? There's a hands down situation here.
01:43:00
Yes, all the halls when we talk about Rebecca Hall, Michael C. Hall, all the halls, we could call it.
01:43:06
Also of course we talking about Janet Little Shop of Horticulture is cute I still love that My son New Jersey Virginia New Jersey
01:43:19
All right. Well, thanks for listening here in 2026. Let's hear ourselves say goodbye in 2017.
01:43:26
I wonder if I do it in four parts. You guys, thanks for listening. We love you. Stay sexy.
01:43:33
Don't get murdered. Bye. Yeah. Elvis want a cookie? Yeah. Yeah. Mimi want a cookie?
01:43:42
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