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Hello. Hello. And welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia. That's right. It's Wednesday.
00:02:00
And that means that we are recapping our old shows with all new commentary and updates and insights.
00:02:05
Today, we're looking back at episode 85, which we named, you're not going to believe this, we named it Live at the Boulder Theater.
00:02:12
How? How do we come up with these things? So this is our live show in, you guessed it, Boulder, Colorado.
00:02:18
And this episode originally came out September 7th, 2017. Aw, cute little 2017. So long ago, a little baby.
00:02:26
All right, let's listen to the intro of episode 85. What's up, Boulder? I was like, see, they don't like it when I do it.
00:02:40
That's only when you do it. That's so embarrassing that we didn't turn our own fucking mics on.
00:02:46
I mean, we've never had to. I mean. So. Boulder! Yeah, we said it. We did it. Ever since the one time I walked out here and like,
00:03:01
what's up? And pointed at the upper and there was nobody there. I now go, hey, just to make, there was no.
00:03:08
Well, here's, oh, they're here. Oh, yeah. Oh, they're fucking here. Oh, yeah. And they're here for revenge.
00:03:17
I actually told Georgia earlier, I was like, so just be aware. it's like a it's a much smaller room so just know if they're quiet doesn't mean we're doing bad
00:03:29
it's just smaller and we step out and i you may have popped my eardrum i'm not sure
00:03:36
the show won't go on if our eardrums are popped or it would be really funny or it would be
00:03:47
Let's just see if we could. Loud and quiet at the same time. Last night, we were at Denver, and you guys are cooler.
00:03:56
Pandering, pandering, pandering. Hey, this is my favorite murder of the podcast.
00:04:02
That's Karen Kilgara. I'm Georgia Hartster. Who didn't know who was who? I didn't.
00:04:12
I'm happy to learn. You are so high on altitude sickness right now, aren't you? Oh, my God.
00:04:17
I fucking hit that oxygen tank backstage so hard. And thank you to the Boulder Theater for coming.
00:04:24
I'm like, I heard someone needed oxygen. Come on down. I was like, oh my God. They actually said, we heard someone was lightheaded.
00:04:31
Do they need oxygen? And she's like, yeah, I'll have some oxygen. Oh my God. Because I woke up from a nap, which I'm usually like, nap, hey.
00:04:39
And then I was just like, I don't know what I'm doing. We're going to turn into, it's going to be a blue velvet situation in like a month.
00:04:45
or just like, could we have our oxygen tanks on stage with us, please? Yeah. I know we're below sea level.
00:04:52
It doesn't matter. We do what we want. We've been blaming everything that's happened on the, what's it called?
00:05:00
Altitude. Altitude. It's fine. We're fine. Since we've been here. Some real funny shit that is not because of altitude.
00:05:07
My shoes hurt. Altitude. Your shoes hurt. There's been, everyone's gotten really comfortable with the farting situation,
00:05:14
which is just... Belching. I mean, we used to be so modest, and it was just like,
00:05:20
their air has to come out of me, and we can't pretend anymore. But I gotta say, it's a little bummed,
00:05:26
because sometimes I fart in a funny way, to be like, hey, and punctuate it, and I did it,
00:05:32
and nobody laughed, so I was like, did I offend them? Sorry, wait a second, you intro your fart,
00:05:39
like a hey and then a fart? No, I say a dumb joke, and then I'm like, punk, like,
00:05:44
you know just like to be like you physically punctuate the joke only if I have to fart
00:05:51
you do like I doing it on purpose you do like an unspoken pull my finger sometimes how come I don fucking know this I don know maybe you don I done it many times in front of you and Steven
00:06:07
Steven! Oh, Karen, Steven is at home right now. I figured you guys would know. We don't, we leave him at home.
00:06:19
He's not that great. It's mostly the hair. You guys don't fall for it. We don't tell him he's coming and he's like waiting outside with a suitcase and then we just go pick him up.
00:06:29
It's not like that. Maybe next time, Steven. Oops, we forgot. It's like Home Alone.
00:06:36
Except he's crying the whole time. He's not dead in the heart with like Macaulay Culkin.
00:06:41
He's just like, I don't care. Home Alone with like a mustache and cats. Which would be a better film and you know it.
00:06:49
He has a pet cube, which basically means you can spy on who's ever taken care of your cat.
00:06:54
And it was like a laser thing. And he's on it. And he like set up basically a hidden camera in my house.
00:07:01
To watch the cats. Against himself? Yeah. He nanny cammed himself? Yeah. Wow. And I think he can put it online.
00:07:09
So maybe you can watch cats sleep. At some point. Is this a new business of yours?
00:07:16
Where you're like, and for $9.95. You too can watch Stephen and my cats sit. one cent goes to the uh aspca one cent of every just one cent total
00:07:27
just one cent will go to every we had a vet come we had a vet come to the meet and greet yesterday
00:07:36
it was so lovely and she gave us a ton of pet like cool pet toys which was so nice yeah you
00:07:42
now have to jam into your suitcase they're the size of dogs i like that you're just bragging
00:07:50
about presents now. You're like, hey, so we have some pretty big vet presents right now.
00:07:55
So, right now, right now, I would. Well, if it's bragging time, then I would like to brag
00:08:01
about my Bigfoot necklace, which I... Uh-huh. I hate... So, it's funny on different levels.
00:08:08
Yeah. Go ahead and tell three of them. Well, one is that it's Bigfoot, so you're like,
00:08:15
I spotted Bigfoot. You know, some of them are going to say that. That's funny. Yeah.
00:08:19
Yeah. It's also funny because it's fucking awesome. And it's also funny because when you saw it, we both bent down and hit heads.
00:08:28
Forgot about that part. Oh, fuck. I was like, when I do things like that, I kind of hate everything.
00:08:35
So when I see something I love, I'm so overcome with like, how could this actually be happening?
00:08:41
I go blind to everything else around me. So I was just like, a Bigfoot necklace?
00:08:46
I'm like, really led with my skull. Poor George is like, oh, look, a tiny little, and then I headbutted her.
00:08:52
And they had glasses on, so they kind of like stabbed me in the top. But then it was like worth it.
00:08:56
It's a great necklace. It was worth it. I think it was worth it. Yeah. It's okay.
00:09:00
It's okay. It's okay. And then, so it was at Buffalo Exchange because this like lovely girl said, you guys should
00:09:06
go to Buffalo Exchange. Yeah. Everyone loves Buffalo Exchange. I think they worked there.
00:09:12
And so we went and we're walking in the front door and this girl who's standing there looking
00:09:17
like she works there uh yells at us shut the front door so i'm like because it was like there's five
00:09:25
of us all together and i was second in so i was like whoops okay and i just hot outside walking
00:09:30
and i'm like we're already in trouble in buffalo exchange and then as i'm walking by i see she has
00:09:36
a giant ssdgm necklace on and i was like no she didn't mean it like that come back it was it was
00:09:44
as if she had placed herself in the doorway of the first place we went in Denver.
00:09:50
Just like, shut the front door! It's very bizarre. I think she did it. I think she's
00:09:56
been stalking us because she was like, here, I have a present that I just bought you. Like, she had bought
00:10:00
me. I think she knew we were coming. I wouldn't accuse that on stage. I wouldn't. I wouldn't
00:10:06
float that theory. She was lovely and talented. How would she know where we were?
00:10:10
Because she told us, go to Buffalo Exchange. Yeah, but then what? She went there opening
00:10:14
and was like, you know what, 10 a.m., I'll stand here in the doorway. It worked.
00:10:18
With my necklace on. You're right, it did work. So, I'm just saying. Anything is possible.
00:10:27
Yeah. Thanks, that's my new song, Anything is Possible. If you're wearing a Bigfoot necklace,
00:10:35
that's in parentheses after that part. And you expect the worst in people, like they're yelling at you to shut the front door.
00:10:42
Shut the front door. I just take as a direction. A yell at you. It's like, there's all the air conditioning in here.
00:10:48
Shut the fucking door. You're letting the air conditioning go. We were going to talk about our prayer from last night.
00:10:56
We like to do a little prayer before we walk out on stage. But before you applaud us, Christians, it's not.
00:11:04
It's an abomination. It's not. Look, we just try to access a being that we think might help us do this correctly for all of you who have waited so long and care so much and send us pictures of yourselves standing around all day and night waiting for the show to start.
00:11:24
So last night. We want to like connect because we've been like running around backstage and all these people are giving me oxygen.
00:11:30
And we're just like, OK, I'm getting the defibrillator. It's all crazy shit back there.
00:11:35
So we wanted to be like, alright, you me, you me, you me. And then we just start saying words.
00:11:41
We go like, dear, and then we pick a deity that we enjoy. Or like a person. Or just somebody fun, Taylor Swift.
00:11:48
And last night I said, dear Buddha. But that video was playing and Georgia said dear Groupon And then we were like the prayer over That all we need to say We ready to do the show
00:12:06
That was it. Tonight was a lot more heartfelt. Yeah. We both journaled, and feeling pretty good.
00:12:16
I feel like suddenly I don't want to talk about the house we went to today. Oh, are you kidding me?
00:12:22
Why did you do that? It was Mark and Mindy's! It's why we're here! We went to Mark and Mindy's house.
00:12:30
No, that's not true. I mean, it's where every murderino in the nation wants to be.
00:12:39
For a minute and a half. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Drive by and everyone goes quiet.
00:12:47
And we go... Not about you. Not better than us. we all stared in silence and went, I thought it'd be bigger.
00:12:59
Like, as we pulled up, we're, like, looking around, and we're kind of like, hmm,
00:13:04
we thought they were richer than this. Snobs. Immediate snobbery. Does everyone around here own a plane?
00:13:12
Because this does not seem to be Ramsey-level richness at all. They should sell the plane and get a bigger house.
00:13:20
That's right. Then you're rich. Or a landscaper. Or don't be horrible. And then that's what I said.
00:13:32
I'd be like that. We sat there for a second and then Georgia was taking pictures and I was like, I don't know why, but I feel like I need to look down.
00:13:40
And then I started getting obsessed with all the people that work out watering their lawns and stuff.
00:13:45
Suddenly there was like a man watering his lawn and a mother playing with her child.
00:13:48
and I was just like, oh no, this is so dark. And then he sprayed us in the face through my rolled down window
00:13:55
and was like, get out of here, you kids! You creeps, what is wrong with you? But it was worth it.
00:14:02
It was worth it. It's just, I mean, what was going on with that fucking family? Dude.
00:14:14
And then we found out, we found out they like cemented off the basement. Yes, our Uber driver told us that.
00:14:21
And we were just like... Which is the best. Well, that's why you couldn't sell it,
00:14:26
because the monsters who would buy it want the basement. I just love that, I bet you, like,
00:14:33
89% of the Ubers you get into in Boulder, if you were like, hey, so what do you know about the Ramsey household?
00:14:40
They'd be like, well, let's go through a list of things. My mom was the secretary at the, like, fuck.
00:14:47
Yeah. Like total fuck. Total fuck. Well, on that note, should we sit down? Oh, yeah.
00:14:58
This is a nice little setup. Yesterday, I don't want to throw the theater under the bus, but...
00:15:04
Oh, are you caressing the... I just felt like I needed to have a tactile moment.
00:15:07
It's nice. Also, my manicure matches my chair, so... Oh. Oh. It's like you're meant to be.
00:15:18
Fate. That's your soulmate. Let's go. Fate. You want to go back? Okay. Yesterday at our show, they brought a high-top table, like, from the smoking patio, is what Karen said.
00:15:36
Just threw it on stage, and that was it. It was just one of those ones that, like, I've been, like, three pitchers of beer drunk on so many smoking patios,
00:15:46
and you're suddenly you're leaning on one of those like a wrought iron table that you can kind of
00:15:53
stick your fingernails into the holes as you're like what am i doing with my life
00:15:58
but then they're the ones that are so wobbly and you're the one who keeps flosh sloshing beer out of the pitcher and karen stop leaning on it like i can't stand up on my own
00:16:09
oh fuck speaking of really quickly back to buffalo exchange where everything happened
00:16:16
um i uh while i was in among the gowns um somehow i have this thing where everyone smile i don't know
00:16:24
if it's a muscle spasm or if it's consciously i don't want myself to drink as much coffee as i
00:16:29
drink but everyone smiling i don't know if you do this you just kind of squeeze your cup and it just
00:16:35
flies out of your hand but anyway i walk around a large rack of dresses and just see karen standing
00:16:41
near just a pile of coffee it looked like a small pond um and it was honestly time slowed down as it
00:16:50
left my hand and it the it was like a full rotation upside down and like like coffee i saw it all like
00:16:59
there should have been wagner playing underneath it it was so fucking dramatic and horrifying
00:17:06
among all these gorgeous pieces. And I'm just like, I'm going to throw some shit Starbucks around here
00:17:11
if no one minds. And I think I was like, run. I told you to run. And then these two lovely tweed hipsters
00:17:19
came over and cleaned it up. I walked over and turned myself in. I'm just like, we have a major problem by dresses.
00:17:27
But don't worry, it didn't get on Karen's clothes. It only got on Adrian. Karen's longtime friend Adrian's clothes.
00:17:32
That's right. I basically threw a cup of coffee on Adrian. After you told her to change that morning, right?
00:17:39
No. Adrian and I... Here's what it is. Adrian and I, and this has happened all our lives.
00:17:45
My sister Laura and I don't... We look alike like you can tell we're sisters, but we don't look alike look alike.
00:17:51
Laura's best friend Adrian since she was 11 years old, and I look like sisters It creepy how much they Very much For someone who not sisters and who best friends with your sister it creepy I have not lived in like my hometown for a really long time so
00:18:06
anytime my sister and Adrienne go to a party, people come up to Adrienne and go, are you the
00:18:10
comedian? And then she's like, no, she's very unfriendly. It's her brand. And last night in
00:18:21
Denver, we were dressed almost exactly like. Our hair is very similar. And she said so many people
00:18:28
were walking up and would get like a foot away thinking that they had seen me before the show.
00:18:33
And then they'd be like, no, and then walk away. Imagine how that feels to be on the receiving end
00:18:40
of like abject disappointment 11 times before the big show starts. So did you tell them you're
00:18:47
The sister and friend are like, no. And I'm like, oh, I'm the only one who just needs constant attention and praise.
00:18:52
Everyone else is like, no, why would I tell them that? The two of them are like, we hate attention and we refuse praise.
00:19:00
So this morning when we got up, I got dressed. I took a shower, got dressed, came out of the bathroom.
00:19:05
Were you bragging that you took a shower? What's that? Were you bragging that you took a shower?
00:19:08
That's right. Totally bathed. Head to toe? Stem to stern. Thank you. Wow. But when I came out of the bathroom, Adrian and I had the same outfit on again.
00:19:20
And she got so angry that we once again were dressed alike that she changed her shirt in a rage.
00:19:28
And then an hour later, I threw a cup of coffee on it accidentally. So was it accidental will be the question that just sticks in our mind.
00:19:36
I mean, it's just something to talk about at therapy next time. When you and Adrian go together.
00:19:42
That's right. I go to therapy with everyone I know. It's necessary. What's up? Do you want to talk about...
00:19:52
What else do you want to talk about? I don't know. I want to talk about... I'd like to talk about junior high.
00:20:00
Oh, man. What a time it was. We have some slides, actually. Look what Stephen made.
00:20:07
Stephen, like, made our slides look legit. He's earning his keep. That was for you, Stephen. He listens to all these recordings at home after the fact.
00:20:19
Stephen, cut that out. Cut all this out. Cut the compliment out. The compliment goes, cheering for you goes, and we're back in.
00:20:33
And we're back. You know, I didn't give a shit anymore and I was having fun at that point.
00:20:39
Yeah. You know, I could tell I stopped being nervous at that point. Oh, yeah, completely. Like you trusted yourself. You trusted the process. I mean, in 2017, the innocence that we did all of this with and the kind of a bashed kind of like, hey, let's see what happens. I mean, like that was the joy of it for me because it was like a standup gig that was going to go well.
00:21:02
Right. Totally. And that is like not to say that we're always great. It's to say that even moderate nice clapping is 100 times better than most of the stand up gigs I've done in my life. So I was just like, what a dream come true. Yeah. And then we would kind of just get high off of oxygen from there.
00:21:20
I love it. I was like, I woke up, but I didn't know where I was. It's like, oh, dear.
00:21:27
Yeah. Real early days for us. But I do remember Boulder being such a charming, friendly city. I really, really liked it there.
00:21:36
Like to this day when someone's like, do you like Boulder? Have you been whatever? I'm like,
00:21:39
it's fucking darling. I just have such good memories of it. Yeah, me too. And we went to fucking Jamba. That feels dirty at this point, right?
00:21:47
For sure. I mean, I think we don't do that. This is the kind of thing where I think that we were trying to figure out who we were as true crime fans because there isn't one way.
00:21:59
And I think this is kind of what everybody knows now, but wasn't totally evident at the time where it's like the thing of I don't look at pictures.
00:22:06
I don't want to listen to 911 calls. I'm never going to email a fucking serial killer in prison.
00:22:11
But then we went to JonBenet's house and that felt like a step too far. Yeah, really.
00:22:16
it was just driving down a street looking at a thing but we were just like how are we participating
00:22:22
in this yeah and it does matter and also making sure people understand hey we did it and it didn't
00:22:28
feel good so think about that because you might think you have to do this right and it is a good
00:22:34
point of like we didn't know what I like the like we didn't know what kind of true crime like fans
00:22:39
we were because it wasn't a thing yet yeah like the way we did it wasn't a thing yet we kind of
00:22:46
like made it up as we go along and now the rules are obvious and that like we all understand the
00:22:53
assignment but 2017 that's a year in to podcast our pod or a year and a half in it's so early
00:23:01
yeah for what we were also for kind of the opportunity yeah i don't know so it truly is
00:23:08
like someone came up and gave us like acid and then was like okay go walk down that path see
00:23:13
what happens that's looking back after this long it's what it feels like yeah and they gave us a
00:23:18
rule book and we're like great and open it was fucking blank and we're just like well what do we
00:23:22
but i will say since we did go there i still remember the creepy feeling of just looking at
00:23:28
this house that i had seen in pictures and it just like was this pressing reality of like oh something
00:23:36
really, really awful happened to a very innocent girl here. And it feels bad being here. It feels
00:23:43
bad if the neighbors look out and see that we're like us, that we're doing that. I don't want to
00:23:48
be identified as someone who does that. Yes. So, yeah, I remember it very well. Me too. And I also
00:23:54
think it's that we're doing this and we're looking and we're pointing at the house and it's like it's
00:23:59
still... a cold case. I think there's that piece too, where it's like, the interest is not the house.
00:24:06
The interest is not the street. It's like what people have to kind of refocus sometimes,
00:24:11
refocus the interest. It's still compelling because we don't know what happened. Like,
00:24:17
we need to know what happened because a very violent, horrible thing happened. And
00:24:22
what if it happened again after? It's like, I think we're so used to seeing it on TV
00:24:27
and in movies where you can get a spoiler, you can rewind it, and then suddenly the actual house being there,
00:24:34
it's like you can almost, you still feel the horror of what happened without any answers.
00:24:41
Right. It's just like, it felt bad and really sad. And I think that distance piece where,
00:24:48
and we've talked about this before, the distance of these cases from us in our lives
00:24:53
was so far away when the podcast started. Yeah. And then just slowly but surely, we came right up to it where we're like, oh, that's right. Like now we have a responsibility or now we have like, we need a point of view here that is the good point of view. We need to do the thing that's any option is available right now. We need to be conveying the one that like is best for all of us kind of idea, which is like wild to consider.
00:25:19
Well, you know, I think later in this exact tour, we went to Georgia, to Atlanta, and someone was like, are you going to go to her grave? And I think we said absolutely not. Like, having had this experience.
00:25:32
Right. It was just like, we now know what the boundary is. And like, let's try to stick on the right side of that.
00:25:38
Yeah, let's keep our eyes out for that, where it's like, this is, what are we actually doing? All of that is good. It's good to ask yourself.
00:25:46
Yeah. The answer we have is we don't know. We will do our best. We try. We do. We'll still fuck up and we'll try to learn still. Yeah, that's right. All right. Should we get into your story now? Sure. We're about to listen to Georgia's story about John Agrew.
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That's Redfin.com. Should we? Who's first tonight? You're first. Shall we? Get into the shit.
00:28:50
Let's take the necessary moment of you turning to your friend that you brought who doesn't know anything about the murder,
00:28:56
because your friend who was in CES got sick, and you're like, Danny, will you go with me, please?
00:29:00
I don't want to go alone. I have anxiety. And they're like, okay, what is it? It's just a cool comedy show.
00:29:05
Now you can let them know that here's when the horror starts. Yep. And we are not bad people.
00:29:12
We're good people talking about bad things. Yeah. Ready? And it's your town, so it's your fault.
00:29:16
thank you all right boulder you guys had i want to say not i wasn't i was impressed
00:29:26
and then got stressed out because you don't have a ton ton you have like the old one you have kind
00:29:32
of the queen queen which we can't do obviously we did it yeah and then all right but you also have
00:29:39
um you also have a guy named john agru i think i'm saying that right okay so i got a lot of this
00:29:48
from a dude named kurt mitchell from denver post cold case section what's funny i was just
00:29:54
thinking that maybe he our uber driver this dude kurt mitchell that drove us here i wrote i wrote this on the way over because he wrote this whole thing and he was contacted by someone in the case to like help solve it
00:30:08
It's just pretty fucking, I want someone to please do that for us. But also solve it yourself, and then just say that we did it.
00:30:17
All right. Can I keep stalling? No, you have to jump in. Okay, on July 1st, 1982, two fishermen who were looking for a good spot to fish in Boulder Canyon discovered, not a mannequin, the decaying body of a young woman who was covered only by a towel.
00:30:36
She had 11 knife wounds in her chest and two in her neck. Her backpack was nearby, and police were able to identify her based on that as Susan Susie Becker.
00:30:50
Susie is her nickname. She's 20 years old. Susie was last seen on the morning of June 20th, 1982.
00:30:58
So like a little less than a month before. She was raised Catholic. She liked to listen to...
00:31:04
Music? Yeah, but... Music. Let's call it. What you got? It's Rastafarian. So I'm not going to be able to pronounce that.
00:31:14
Reggae? No, Rastafarian I can pronounce. It's the Naya Bingge. If anyone can do it, it's you guys, Boulder.
00:31:21
Yeah. I think she was kind of like a hippie, free-spirity. We have a photo of her.
00:31:29
Can you put up the photo of her, please? There you go. Yeah, she was like a sweet little baby angel, hippie, free spirit.
00:31:39
Okay. I take it back down now. Let's not bum everyone out too much. Let's not. Then, a week after Susie's body was discovered,
00:31:51
A second body was found nearby. 94-year-old Orma Smith. And you can put her picture up.
00:31:58
A retired librarian who went missing days earlier. Look at her. That's everyone's grandma from the 70s.
00:32:07
A retired librarian, she had gone missing days earlier, was discovered face down in a stream in Big Elk Meadows near Estee Park.
00:32:21
Near SD Park. Oh, is that it? Is that it? One big sound? S says park. What are you doing?
00:32:30
Just keep going. Thank you. On July... What? Nothing. What? There's a lot of S's.
00:32:40
On July 9th, 1982. So two bodies in like eight days, if I can do the math. Okay, investigators got a break in the case.
00:32:51
On July 15, 1982, when a 50-year-old man named John Argue, it says it's agru, agru, agru, agru.
00:33:00
They don't know. I know. And I usually don't listen, so. A man threatened, this guy John threatened a 26-year-old University of Colorado student with a knife,
00:33:12
but she had escaped, and he was caught minutes later. So I think she was like, fuck you, and neighbors must have been like, let's get him.
00:33:21
I'm guessing. He was caught minutes later and arrested. John was on parole. He had moved to Colorado in 1982 after getting out of prison.
00:33:31
In 1966, John had been convicted of fatally stabbing his 14-year-old sister-in-law, Susan Marino.
00:33:40
Sounds like a dick. He had dumped his sister-in-law's body in a stream in Illinois
00:33:48
and had been sentenced to prison for a term of 20 to 50 years. Guess how many he got?
00:33:55
Two. You're all wrong. But he was released on good behavior after 16 years because he was a good guy in prison.
00:34:06
John turned out to be Orma, the 94-year-old librarian's neighbor and a close acquaintance of hers.
00:34:14
She was a super friendly woman, and she would often let John come in and use her phone
00:34:18
to make calls, and he drove her around town on errands. He drove her around town on errands.
00:34:25
Like, they were buds. He obviously became the main subject, and when they learned also that he would go hiking in Boulder Canyon,
00:34:34
where the bodies were found. So John refused to speak to authorities and prosecutors,
00:34:39
determined there wasn't enough evidence to file charges against him in either Susie or Orma's murders,
00:34:45
but the attempted kidnapping charges were filed in the case of the co-ed who escaped
00:34:50
and he was convicted of attempted abduction. He remained in prison until 1989 and then 21 years later,
00:34:59
John's niece Cora Ami, who lives in Joliet, Illinois, Joliet, Illinois, became terrified of her uncle
00:35:12
because he had told her that he had killed an old woman in Colorado. Just chatting?
00:35:20
I bet they were drunk, right? How old was she? She was a grown-up, I think. Oh, okay.
00:35:28
Yeah, so she got terrified of him because he said this, and he seemed to regret telling her that.
00:35:37
Yeah, the morning after. You know the morning after, like, oh, what did I say to John?
00:35:41
Did I tell Megan she should get her lip wax? Probably. No one to tell people they should get her.
00:35:47
Or it was like the moment after where he's like, I killed this little woman. Ooh.
00:35:51
Ooh. Dang it. Uh um so she he started just like stand outside her apartment at all hours of the night and threatened her so she got a restraining order against him um and he she said he had said to
00:36:08
her you know how to kill someone and get away with it just become just become their friend and
00:36:13
then anything police get they can't use against you because you're their friend and it was okay
00:36:17
for you to be there. It's like you were... It's faulty logic. Yeah. Become their friend.
00:36:24
He's confusing a couple rules there. Or a couple moral fucking basics. Yeah. Like, don't kill your friends.
00:36:31
He had... What did he watch growing up? Because... Just fucking... Just Barney. Just constant Barney.
00:36:41
Yeah. A lot. So, um... She called crime reporter Kirk Mitchell, the dude whose article I got this from, of the Denver Post,
00:36:53
and she asked if he would be interested in writing a cold case blog about the unsolved murder case of her aunt.
00:36:57
So she gave him all this information about him and how he had killed his sister-in-law all these years ago
00:37:03
and kind of was like, here's all this information. Can you believe this person is not in prison?
00:37:07
Clearly he did these things. And it was 21 years later. So because of this, they reopened the case.
00:37:12
and she called the Lemire County Sheriff's Office Larimer Larimer It's obviously Larimer
00:37:20
Larimer What's nice about having a smaller crowd is that you can hear what they're screaming at you
00:37:27
which I appreciate because now I actually fixed these I mean that We should have done a dry run through
00:37:35
with pronunciations only Why? Then we wouldn't be this podcast anymore she told investigators about her uncle's murder confession,
00:37:45
and they had always thought he was a subject in all these other crimes, so they reopened the investigation.
00:37:50
Awesome. Way to go, Kurt Mitchell. I feel like he's kind of a hero in this, you know?
00:37:56
That he, fuck yeah. Okay. Investigators learned that John had several purses and personal items
00:38:04
that had belonged to women, but his family had already thrown all the items away.
00:38:09
so um i mean i think they were just like he went to prison let's get rid of all this well let's get
00:38:15
rid of his purses yeah they were just like everyone gets rid of people's purses when they
00:38:20
go to prison he won't use them when he gets out they'll be out of style yeah they're thinking to
00:38:24
themselves totally um okay so dna extracted from cigarettes that had been picked up near smith's
00:38:31
body thank god they fucking saved them i definitively connected john to her death
00:38:37
But before authorities had a viable case, he died of an overdose of medications.
00:38:44
What kind of medication? Medications. Just some medication? Pick them. Oxygen. An oxygen tank.
00:38:51
Oh, no! Fuck! I did an oxygen tank and heroin. Oh, my God, I'm screwed. Why would you combine like that?
00:38:59
It doesn't make sense. And it was ruled an accidental death. So Larimer County authorities officially closed Smith's case, though, the sweet angel, in 2010.
00:39:16
But they're reviewing murders committed in Illinois in the 50s and 60s before John Agru was convicted of murder.
00:39:26
And they're looking at murders in Colorado between January of 82 until he was arrested in August of 82.
00:39:31
as well as murders near Joliet, Illinois from the time he was released from prison in 89.
00:39:40
Becker's murder public announcement was made that the case was closed. So he never got, they had a suspect, he did it,
00:39:49
but he never got brought to justice. And that's a bummer, but at least he's dead.
00:39:56
And that was John Agrew. he self-medicated himself off this planet thank you jesus yeah yeah that's crazy yeah so they
00:40:08
think he did other murders before he had to have yeah yeah let's um that's him hold on yeah
00:40:16
oh hello that's steven like 100 i'm sorry if you part that hair and grow it out on one side
00:40:27
and put some nice curls into it and put a cat in his hands. It's over. And constantly be smiling
00:40:33
and constantly be nice to people. And be so nice and never touch knives and not want to hurt, harm one thing.
00:40:38
Yeah, that's him. Dead, dead match. Oh, um, well, um, yeah. So if you, if anyone was his,
00:40:47
I feel like they just need to go back and look at his like, um, phone book and be like, these were his friends.
00:40:52
Let's call them and see if they're still alive. yeah just start on the phone tree totally hey here's the thing
00:41:00
did that guy ever come at you with a knife or anything okay we're back are there updates for this one there actually aren't any updates on this case
00:41:15
and we checked our email and there's no hometowns which i'm really surprised by because it seems like
00:41:20
a big one. Yeah. Send us some in. If you know more about this case or you have anything to tell us,
00:41:26
you should email us. We always want to hear your connection to like a story we've already covered.
00:41:30
It doesn't matter that we already covered it. Like we always want to hear about that. Yeah,
00:41:33
for sure. All right. Should we get into your story? Yes. Okay. Let's listen to Karen's story
00:41:38
about what if you said no? You know what? I got to go. I actually, I was laughing because this is
00:41:46
one of my favorite stories like the first time I heard about it this is what I'm in it for right
00:41:51
here why what about it a creepy guy in the attic oh you love people in walls and living in the attic I can get over Sorry there been someone up there What can you imagine I not scared of it because I think I would have heard something
00:42:08
But no, like I think my senses are better than my spidey senses are better than they probably really are.
00:42:13
We'll see. OK, we'll see when we get that video back from your attic. Wait, you've been filming from my attic this whole time.
00:42:22
I've actually been living in your attic this whole time. You need to pay more attention.
00:42:26
Okay, you're right. All right, let's listen to Karen's story about Theodore Edward Coney's.
00:42:37
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That's redfin.com. well i love going first because now i'm just i know right um here's my thing of all the stories
00:45:49
that i looked up i i picked one that actually took place in denver because it's a story that has all the things that i love and this is my podcast so
00:46:00
so i'd like to tell you all a story you probably know because it didn't happen too far away
00:46:08
36 minutes, right? It's, uh, the Spider-Man of Denver. Oh, I don't know this one.
00:46:17
Yeah. Uh, I want to make a joke about the guy that starred in Spider-Man, but, uh, there's been so many that it would,
00:46:25
everyone would be like, that's not real Spider-Man. Toby, what's his name? Uh, all right.
00:46:34
Denver, 1941. Phil Peters, a 73-year-old railroad auditor, lives in a modest home at 3335 West Montcrieff Place with his wife in Denver, Colorado.
00:46:46
On October 3rd, she breaks her hip and is hospitalized. So since Phil's going to be home alone, his very lovely, nice neighbor tells him that while she's in the hospital, he can come over for dinner at her house every night.
00:46:59
No. So he does it. he comes over to her house every night for two weeks until and she's like can he i just don't
00:47:10
know how much more i could talk to him about the weather i don't like trains that much yeah so
00:47:16
so the night of october 17th phil doesn't show up for dinner and she gets really worried so
00:47:24
because he's 73 and uh so she goes over to the house to check if he's okay and all the lights
00:47:31
her out and the front door is locked and when she knocks he doesn't come to the door and that makes her more worried because she just doesn't think he has
00:47:38
anywhere else to go so she gets a bunch of neighbors together and says I'm worried about Phil I'm afraid he fell down inside the house or something I just
00:47:47
made that up let's write the scene Phil is such a good friend and he loves my cooking she said to her neighbors yeah she really does the reality is she just
00:48:00
to buy her some milk. Yeah. She was like, guys, guys, gather around. I need to get into Phil's house so I can get some milk.
00:48:05
Yeah. I'm trying to make a pie and Phil owes me big time. Yeah. He's eating beef stroganoff at my house every fucking night for two weeks.
00:48:13
Hot dish. Okay, so the neighbors go all around the house. They split up, in my mind, and they go all around the house.
00:48:21
I love this. Checking doors and windows. Yeah, yeah. They're all locked. This house is locked up tight.
00:48:28
They can't get in. So a girl finds a loose window screen and pulls it open. They figure out a way to jimmy the window up.
00:48:36
They basically break into the house. She climbs into the window. They wait. Beat.
00:48:42
Four. Five. Also made up. They wait. Screaming. They hear screaming. It turns out that she came upon the murdered body of Phil Peters.
00:48:56
He was half-dressed. he was horribly beaten he had more than 12 wounds in his skull i feel so bad that i was like okay
00:49:04
he's gonna come over for a hot dish and kill her like that's what i thought you thought phil was
00:49:09
the man that's why i was like don't come over what is she gonna talk about fucking weather
00:49:12
until he murders her now i feel really bad sorry phil it's okay i just got a message from phil
00:49:18
he says it's fine it actually used to happen to him a lot okay he's really he was really creepy
00:49:27
they find the police find his watch and cash on the dresser so they rule out robbery as the motive
00:49:37
but they also realize and are told and check and see that this house is locked up tight
00:49:44
including the chain being across the front door which means that there is a chance that the
00:49:50
perpetrator is still in the house no no no no no no no no now in my movie version of this they all
00:49:56
realize it at the same time the neighbors and the cops they're in a circle and they're like well
00:50:01
right the cops are like someone go in there and see someone should go in here's my gun the cops
00:50:11
like to the girl that went through the window honey go upstairs yeah see if there's a man hiding
00:50:16
yeah so the cops start searching the house and uh they they scour it they look every single
00:50:26
place for somebody that could have just murdered phil peters that's hiding in the house how creepy
00:50:32
would that be no um but they can't find anything they the whole place is empty no one is in there
00:50:37
the only thing that they find that's even like of interest is an like a trap door for an attic
00:50:43
but it's so small that there's no way a person can get up there so they're like all right well
00:50:48
we don't know what happened no it's not well i mean whatever so uh they're baffled and the case comes to a standstill now meanwhile mrs peters
00:51:00
whose name i never learned because who gives a shit at what the wife's name is um she's joking
00:51:06
it's not what i'm saying it's i literally checked like seven articles and she was always mrs peters
00:51:11
it was 1940 let's all be grateful that we live in 2017 so yeah so uh mrs peters has been in the
00:51:23
hospital with a broken hip hey honey we have her husband gets murdered yeah a nurse is like i have
00:51:29
some news now open your mouth and put a pill in it just take this pill um we don't know what your
00:51:35
name is but open your mouth and take this pill nobody knew what her name was that's why they
00:51:39
Mrs. Peters? Yeah. Her name was Mrs. They were like, Judy? Judy. No, it's not Judy.
00:51:46
Sounds right. So she has to go home. Now, in the amount of time between the murder and Mrs. Peters still being in the hospital,
00:51:59
the neighborhood starts to get kind of freaked out. Yeah. Because neighbors start hearing noises in the house.
00:52:05
and then the cops come and they check the whole house and there's nothing there also forget about
00:52:12
that thing again in the ceiling goodbye oh good call good call um bookmark that one yeah um
00:52:20
then there's a group of kids walking by when one morning uh one snowing morning lies and they look up and they see a ghoulish face looking out the window at them
00:52:35
No! Don't ever look up. Children should never look up. Look down always. So they, again, call the police.
00:52:49
The police go in, search the entire house, and nobody's there. So then, basically, the neighborhood starts talking that the Peters house is haunted by Phil Peters,
00:53:00
who got murdered inside the house. He's still in there. That's gotta be it. His body's still... Oh, you mean that.
00:53:05
It was winter. You mean the ghost. Got it. The cops are like, we're just going to leave him here for a while.
00:53:15
Figure some shit out. So by the time Mrs. Peters returns, Gladys Peters returns to the home.
00:53:25
Gladys Peters? I didn't. That has a nice flow to it. Gladys Peters. I think that's it.
00:53:30
By the time she gets back, she knows that the whole neighborhood thinks her house is haunted.
00:53:35
Um, but, so, she, uh, stays there. I actually think the real thing that happened is she was there,
00:53:43
and in this one article I read, it said, uh, while she was in the house, she was startled,
00:53:49
and she fell and re-broke her leg. Oh, honey. Yeah fucking Gladys She had it hard Oh man But I wanna like the startled thing I was just like startled by what A face in the window Yeah
00:54:05
So, she doesn't... They probably shouldn't have said, hey, there's a ghost of your husband in the house.
00:54:10
See you later. Go ahead and get in there. Then every single thing she does, she's like,
00:54:14
whoo-hoo-hoo! She's like, fucking Vera from Alice. Don't scare the shit out of an old woman
00:54:18
with a fucking broken hip. Yeah. How about? Back then, they didn't care. They were like, we don't care what your name is.
00:54:24
and we don't care about your hip at all. So, she hires a nurse to stay with her,
00:54:32
and the two of them start hearing noises. The nurse is like, no. The nurse is like, I mean, it sounds, what's that?
00:54:40
So, at night, they both are hearing, the nurse thinks there's something in the walls.
00:54:47
They're hearing something in the walls. And at first they think, oh, it's like, what everyone says when you hear noises,
00:54:54
is settling. Bullshit! I'm like it's 400 rats. That's the first thing I think. It's bees. It's so many bees
00:55:04
living inside your home. Or it's a murderer is what everyone in this audience would think.
00:55:10
Right. And I bet they're correct. I mean, we'll see. We'll see. Page two. So Sorry, I had to find my spot.
00:55:28
Okay, fuck. Here we go. Oh, my goodness. The nurse gets up one night because she hears a noise.
00:55:37
Uh-uh. Stay in bed. She walks out of her room and down, and she sees on the back stairs
00:55:47
a thin, filthy wretch, and when she came upon it, it shattered its teeth at her.
00:55:56
Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah. How do you even do that? All caps. Can you see that? All caps.
00:56:03
It shattered its teeth at her. How do you do that? Horrible. It's nice with your teeth because you have nice teeth.
00:56:16
but I have good ghost teeth they're all short and scary take sure they're all pointed
00:56:23
yes shave down it's for the movie it's for the movie I wrote this and right after letting the police know
00:56:35
what she saw that night she peaced out as far as she was humanly possible so she was like
00:56:46
no thank you so much she left and mrs peters maureen peters is by herself so a kindly neighbor perhaps the same one making dinner for every fucking buddy
00:56:58
comes over and she's like i'll stay with you no take her out of the home and take her to your
00:57:02
house they're like it's like every it's like every haunted house movie where it's like you
00:57:07
know what we're gonna make this work they always do that go to a hotel they're like i i know we saw
00:57:13
child with like all black eyes trying to give us a message but let's make it work yeah but maybe i
00:57:19
won't maybe i won't see that yeah like wheel her over in her gurney to your house where you like to
00:57:26
cook and sleep there maybe take her against her will in her gurney where she's strapped down yeah
00:57:33
feters peter nice hot dish not an individual but a wife only right and I know that everyone's just like I'll come
00:57:42
no okay so sleepover here's the nice neighbor and mrs peter's like come on those aren't real
00:57:53
several nights later the neighbor hears something rattling around in the kitchen
00:57:58
like are you surprised is she surprised at this point well no in fact she's quite brave because
00:58:05
she gets up and she runs to the kitchen without turning on any lights. Yeah. Yeah.
00:58:14
Can you please tell me she has four knives in her hand? Like, that's the only way I'd be impressed by that.
00:58:19
If she's just like... She has scissor hands. She slept with knives taped to her hands.
00:58:25
Yeah. That was the only thing that was going to make a difference. Like, hope she didn't have an itch on her face at any point.
00:58:31
when she gets to the kitchen she sees a ghost standing at the foot of the stairs
00:58:40
she said it was a filthy wraith-like thing that vanished when she screamed vanished because he like ran to the side
00:58:51
just actually just a nice sidestep she said vanished but yeah he just besides he crab walked out of there yeah yeah uh and then i wrote long story short mrs peters
00:59:06
went to live with her son in western colorado so that was it that last one was it they gave up
00:59:13
they're like fuck this noise all over the place i could have told him that from the beginning
00:59:18
from the point where you find a dead body in a house don't sleep there anymore Yeah, it's true.
00:59:25
Yeah. But I think back then it was like you buy your house and you pay off your mortgage and then you're retired.
00:59:31
And then you and your husband that used to work at the railroad yard or whatever.
00:59:36
Who's not dead? Stay there. The one. Okay, got it. I'm just trying to talk you through it.
00:59:43
Sorry, I'm mad. No, no, I mean. I'm clearly really angry. I just wanted you to see the logic of staying in a house where multiple times people have spotted ghosts.
00:59:52
Uh-huh. and heard terrible things Uh That keep happening And where terrible things happen So stay living there I guess I only lived in apartments in my life so I don get having an attachment to a house in any way Change it
01:00:06
Great. Okay. We don't know why people make the decisions they make, but this is what happened.
01:00:12
So finally, now the house is just sitting empty. Okay. But because of the rumors of the paranormal
01:00:19
or something going on there, the cops take the house out every once in a while. So one night on July 30th, 1942.
01:00:28
Ooh, that sounds fun. Right? A stakeout in the 40s. A stakeout in the 40s. Imagine the coats and the smoking.
01:00:34
The sunflower seed piling up on it. Ding. Fucking big old, a huge car. A car that's three times the size of any car now.
01:00:43
A slurpy size of like popcorn thing size of hot black coffee. Yes. But it's got popcorn in it.
01:00:52
Yeah. That's how they used to do it. Coffee at Starbucks. Can I have a grande black popcorn coffee?
01:01:00
Extra butter. Extra butter. That's going to be a thing. Okay, so as they're sitting there watching the house,
01:01:08
the mailman comes walking up the street. Light of day. Normal day on July 30th, 1942.
01:01:14
And as the mailman walks up, one of the cops is still looking at the house. He doesn't give a shit about the mailman.
01:01:22
he's still looking at the house he sees the curtains pop open and a face look out
01:01:28
and right as it happens he nudges the other cop and the other cop turns to look as the curtains
01:01:35
close so they're both like it's fucking on like donkey kong they get out of the cop car
01:01:42
at what point at what point does that first cop change the pants that he peed it in your hand.
01:01:50
All I can picture is the face of that face that comes up really fast and goes away in The Exorcist.
01:01:56
That's all I'm seeing when I think about this face. Really fast. But this time with like flowered
01:02:04
curtains. 40s curtains. Maybe even a paisley. Paisley print? Or just a faded linen.
01:02:14
In the film now, the two cops get out and run to the house while Katrina Waves Walking on Sunshine plays.
01:02:24
Because it's my film. And they get, oh, they whistle their cop whistles for assistance, which is precious.
01:02:33
And then... Can you do it? What? Can you whistle? I want to hear it. Well, they have whistles, but...
01:02:38
They have whistles. Thank you. I get it. No. I asked her. And I can't whistle. so when the audience is like wait i can whistle um they have a whistle got i guess oh god i get it
01:02:54
now maybe they had whistles too they're like this is from 1940 fucking two asshole i bought it on
01:03:00
ebay it's the one from the murder they go into the house immediately hit with the wall of odor
01:03:08
it has like an animal smell inside the house a supposedly empty house for three months um they
01:03:15
start they head upstairs and they start searching and as they're you know walking down the hallway
01:03:21
scared maybe they're new one's old one's young he's about to have a baby like as much as a baby
01:03:29
about to have a baby this one's about to retire he's too old for this shit you've seen it you love
01:03:35
it as they pass a doorway one of them i like to think it's the one who didn't see the face so it's
01:03:42
even. One of them passes the doorway, sees a closet door shut. So he goes in, he opens the closet
01:03:52
door, and he looks up, and there's that trap door open with some dirty, dirty feet hanging out of it.
01:04:02
Right? We told them to open that door, remember? Told them, and they didn't listen.
01:04:09
Oh my god, Karen, I forgive you for not doing I mean not that it matters They forgive you for not doing a boulder
01:04:16
Okay so This comp jumps up And tries to catch a foot Don't touch it Dirty dirty dirty dirty
01:04:27
Dirty feet He instead catches a pant leg And it tears off in his hand And it's like super tattered
01:04:34
Shitty Disintegrates Shitty shitty pants I mean, get out of here with your shitty pants.
01:04:44
That's the new look, the new style. Tired pants. Yeah. He jumps up again. Both of his hands catch on to one of those feet and he fucking yanks it down out of the attic.
01:04:58
I know. It feels like a victory. Uh-oh. That means it's not. And down comes. Oh, my God.
01:05:06
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. A filthy, emaciated man. in very tattered clothing named Theodore Comey's who immediately passes out onto the floor.
01:05:17
Bullshit. That's like playing dead. Oh, you think he's faking it? Yeah. Well, we could,
01:05:22
we could play with that in the film where you're not sure if he's really lost consciousness. He's
01:05:26
lying there and he keeps opening one eye. He's like a little kid pretending to sleep where his
01:05:32
eyes are moving around too much under his lids. Yeah. Good. I like this. Someone, Stephen,
01:05:39
Are you writing down our statement script? Okay, so He this man is in his mid 60s. He's 5 foot 10 and he weighs 137 pounds
01:05:54
Quite thin yeah So the whole of this trapdoor they say was a little bit less than three times the size of a cigar box
01:06:06
So it's like, dink, dink, dink, however you would imagine. This-ish. No. I think, like, cigar box like that?
01:06:14
A little bigger. Yeah. Well, then you go, eh? Right? Then you have to go, eh. Don't go wide.
01:06:21
They're not end-to-end. Are they? It's a square. You're right. I get it. Here's the thing.
01:06:27
It's very small. Listen. I don't know math. I don't know cigars. I don't know cigars.
01:06:34
Those are my two only things I don't know. Shit, sorry. I should have briefed you.
01:06:39
It's a fucking tiny hole. Teeny tiny. So they go up. So they go up and they're like,
01:06:48
they can't even get up into the attic. The hole is so small because they're normal sized men.
01:06:53
Do we have any pictures yet? Do we have pictures? Oh, maybe. Could I throw a picture up?
01:06:58
Let's see what happens. Is that him? There he is, all cleaned up. That's the cleaned up...
01:07:05
That's the ghost. He looks like a bummer. He's just really dry and sarcastic. Yeah.
01:07:15
He's in a band. Real angry eyes. Actually, he looks like what Mimi looks like most of the time.
01:07:20
Just grumpy as fuck. Aww, Mimi. Get away from me. Okay, so they look up into this attic.
01:07:26
It's got a single light bulb hanging from a wire. He's got a bed that's made of an ironing board.
01:07:32
Okay, masochist. No, no, no, masochist. He's got like a little bedding. He's got a bunch of megal torn up magazines everywhere.
01:07:40
It just said magazines in my movie. Those are straight up triple X porn magazines.
01:07:45
He's not looking through like boy's life or whatever. Or what's one of the like 1940s like movie star?
01:07:52
It's not that. You will call it movie star because we won't be able to clear anything else for the movie.
01:07:56
Totally. Right? Totally. Okay. And it smells so bad. Oh, God, he's been shitting in there, hasn't he?
01:08:03
Because he's been shitting and pissing up there. There's a toilet downstairs. But the flush.
01:08:10
Okay. Did you say what the flush? No. Of course you didn't. Why would you say that?
01:08:15
What the flush? No, I said... That's a mean, not a you. uh okay so they have to take him to the hospital because he is so thin they think he's going to die
01:08:26
um when he's released from the hospital he's brought into the police station for questioning
01:08:30
so he tells them the story um he so as a child he suffered from such bad health that doctors told his parents he wouldn't live to see his 18th birthday and for some reason they
01:08:42
told him that uh yeah they're like don't get attached to anything don't tell your kids that they're gonna die they're like don't sweat the small stuff and
01:08:52
we really mean that like really or the big stuff try not to sweat it's bad for you so
01:09:01
so he quits school which i would too um somehow he learns to play the mandolin which is actually kind of perfect.
01:09:14
That's great. He is in the Mandolin Club in Denver, which I'm sure a lot of you are in also.
01:09:22
And that's how he met Phil Peters 30 years prior. Whoa. Yeah. So he was a very sickly kind of young man
01:09:30
that didn't do that much and, you know, had a hard time breathing. I was like, so.
01:09:36
Except he's a murderer. That's your response. He's a murderer. Your response is, oh, baby, and mine's,
01:09:40
I rolled my eyes. He can't breathe or something. Calm down. Calm down with your sickness.
01:09:50
When he got older, he at one point worked in ad sales. He was also a bookkeeper at the Denver Brass Works.
01:09:57
Axe sales? Yeah, Axe body spray sales. They invented it in 1939. Ad sales, you said.
01:10:06
It just smelled like cigarettes back then. Advertisement sales. But his poor health prevented him from ever establishing a career,
01:10:16
and so he basically spent most of his adult life as a transient. So by the fall of 1941, 30 years later,
01:10:26
he had just been out on the road, traveling around, and he had been doing it for so long and just getting sicker and sicker
01:10:34
because he was spending winters outdoors. Do we know what he had? Just, like, just shitty lungs.
01:10:42
in my movie, the doctor will flip open a thing and be like, we're so sorry, Theodore.
01:10:50
You've got a case of shit long. And then he'll cry. Your lungs technically just fucking suck.
01:11:00
Yeah. I mean, there's no upside. No cure. So he was back in the Denver area around October of 1941,
01:11:11
and he knew he could not survive another winter outdoors. So he thought, oh, maybe if I go to Phil Peter's house,
01:11:17
he will help me out. But when he got to the house, nobody was home and the front door was open.
01:11:23
Because Mildred, he was with Mildred in the hospital. That's right. You have a...
01:11:27
What? Is it my guardian angel? Mildred and... No! Wait, I have some wishes. So he opens the door and he's like, I'm just gonna steal some food. Yeah, I'm fucking starving. Yeah, I'm 5'10 and I weigh 137. Yeah, so
01:11:50
That's like what I wear. Nope. That's what I weigh You're five shorter So that would be real thin.
01:12:01
It would be tough. Yeah. But you could go into attics whenever you wanted. That's true.
01:12:06
Upside. So he said he went in, he stole some food, and then he realized this was this opportunity.
01:12:15
So he started looking around the house, and he saw that trap door, and he was like,
01:12:21
this could be the way that I don't have to be outdoors for the rest of this winter.
01:12:25
Or you could have waited for Phil to get home, and then I'm like, hey, buddy, I really need a place to stay.
01:12:30
yeah I mean you could but maybe Phil was just like half a dick maybe Phil was just like he was like
01:12:39
kind but he would hold it over you so he'd be like sure you can you can stay and have a banana
01:12:47
and then you need a then just stares yeah just okay we won't put it in the movie
01:12:53
fuck the people have spoken okay who plays Phil good um i love this i love this let's work with this one for a minute i mean off the cuff i wanted
01:13:06
to say bill pullman is he but he's older isn't he an older man you think he's older than bill
01:13:11
pullman no i think phil i think phil's in his 70s right so let's go ahead right he was
01:13:16
73 then we're doing tommy lee jones as phil oh yeah that's good right okay all right it's real
01:13:25
It's gritty. And I just like him. One time in L.A., we were driving up, I think it was...
01:13:34
You're looking at me like I'm going to just start naming streets. Well, I mean, that would be the fun thing.
01:13:39
Coenga. Los Feliz. What area? Santa Monica. I think it was Doheny. Doheny. Where the Four Seasons is.
01:13:46
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. Yes. And we're driving up it, and there's a little bit of traffic.
01:13:53
and the Four Seasons Hotel, which is very fancy, as you well know, is right there,
01:13:57
where lots of celebrities go to just hang out. And as we were stopped in traffic, I looked up and there's a black Mercedes,
01:14:03
and the window rolls down, and it's fucking Tommy Lee Jones. And I went like this.
01:14:11
And he was like, he gave me the old fucking sailor salute. That's a good one. And even in L.A., you guys think we see, like, we don't see a lot of good ones.
01:14:22
No. There's very few. Few, few good ones. Yeah. We do. There's you'll see some people from the CW.
01:14:30
They're beautiful. They're very beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. And similar. But a TLJ, you're not going to get that every day. It was fucking magic.
01:14:40
I saw Simon Cowell. What? But out the window of the car I was in, I was in the passenger side seat and I saw him.
01:14:49
He pulled up next to us with his window rolled down, but unfortunately I didn't see him
01:14:53
before I had belched loudly out the car window right as fucking Simon Cowell pulls up
01:15:02
and is like whatever, like a car that, I don't know, Maserati. What do people drive that are...
01:15:07
Everybody drives Maseratis. That's a Corvette. I don't fucking know. Did he love it?
01:15:14
I just hid. He was like, it's a little pitchy. A little pitchy. Yeah, he ignored me.
01:15:21
Well, then I just will say... You're juicy. We'll just keep doing this? Yeah. One time on Laurel Canyon,
01:15:26
I'm up trying to take a left onto Ventura. You know. And it's where all the studios are.
01:15:33
It's literally called Studio City. And as I... You know, it's very nerve-wracking
01:15:39
to make left-hand turns in Los Angeles. And I just moved there like probably two years before.
01:15:42
It's very scary. You have to really... You have to attack the intersection. You have to take your space.
01:15:48
They're getting pissed at you behind you. You can't win. You always do it wrong.
01:15:51
It's bad. So I'm out there really trying to, like, take my place in the world of this intersection.
01:15:58
Well, who comes up in a light blue jag but Mr. Clint Eastwood? Karen, you get all the hot gruff older ones.
01:16:06
I get this fucking manly man. And he was, because the sun was shining in his eyes, so he was like...
01:16:14
he looked like he was doing a Clint Eastwood impression the whole time it was fucking so rad
01:16:21
it was so rad Billy Bob Thornton okay yes another gruff fucking I'm just saying his name no I saw
01:16:29
him once did you see him yeah yeah I walked right into him we were at a book remember when there was
01:16:34
borders and unless you know you guys remember remember I was walking around around the corner
01:16:41
right into someone. Oh, I'm so sorry, ma'am. Oh, he called you ma'am. He was so polite.
01:16:47
And then Angelina just gives me the stink eye while she walks by. Are you, they were in Borders?
01:16:51
Yeah. Like, oh, you tried to walk into my husband. Yeah, you did, girl. I did not.
01:16:57
Did you? I did not. He wears a vial of your blood around his neck. That's disgusting.
01:17:03
What? That is so goes against everything they were doing at that period of time.
01:17:09
Oh, Borders? Yeah. They wanted a book on how to keep your marriage sane. Or they're just getting one of those map books about hiking.
01:17:18
Just like, don't tell anyone we bought this. We're into nature. Lastly, most beautiful woman I've ever fucking seen in person in my life.
01:17:26
I mean, next level. Don't clap. Next level. Just that was all I took away from that.
01:17:31
Anyways, where were we? Oh, Angelina Jolie. I thought you were building up to who that person was.
01:17:36
Oh, no, no, no. Who could it be? She was so beautiful. also like 5'3 though oh really?
01:17:42
I'm sorry I thought she was tall I know they make it seem that way but she's not
01:17:46
they're all very small they're tiny human beings when you go there if you run into a celebrity
01:17:51
you go to Los Angeles you run into a celebrity you will think they're in grammar school at first it like Alyssa Milano same deal she the first celebrity I saw in LA And it immediately made me want to quit what I was doing
01:18:05
Because I was just like, oh, you have to be four foot eight. And roughly 67 pounds.
01:18:11
Yeah. That's the only reason we're not famous, you guys. I have a huge head. And we're persisting.
01:18:18
We're persisting. Alright. Back to the film that everyone's been talking about at Sundance.
01:18:29
Okay, so when he's being interviewed by the cops, he basically says he never meant to harm Phil,
01:18:37
but once he was in there, he, like his thing was, he's for the first, so he, all together,
01:18:45
he was up in that attic for nine months living inside those people's house. Oh my God.
01:18:51
For nine months. and at first he would just stay really, really still and if he heard
01:18:55
anybody downstairs, he would just freeze and stay still all day. But when it was
01:19:02
still Phil in the house, after a little while, he got bored and he said he would sneak down.
01:19:08
At first he would sneak down at night and eat scraps. He would eat out of the garbage. He would stick his finger
01:19:14
in the jelly jar and eat it. Go back upstairs. Also, who eats jelly raw? I mean, it was the 40s though.
01:19:22
That's true. We'll establish that at the beginning that everybody eats jelly all the time.
01:19:26
They fucking love it. Right, right. Preserves. But with a spoon. Yeah. That's dessert at that lady's house.
01:19:32
Okay, everyone gets a spoonful of jelly. And off to bed. Can I play the lady who cooks for him?
01:19:38
Of course. Thank you. But the lady that cooks dinner? Yeah. 100%. Thank you. But you have to read for it.
01:19:43
Okay. Oh. Well, then I'm not getting it. No, that's how it is down there. It's show business.
01:19:48
Yeah. look I love you I want you to be part of it but the execs are I mean it's it was my choice
01:19:54
there's so many the line producer has to see the performance okay guys let's focus
01:20:00
not fair is everyone dying right now no we're good okay okay so but then he gets bored right so then what he
01:20:09
does is he starts sneaking down when Phil is still in the house and shadowing him
01:20:14
as he walks around the house everything up until then was like oh okay that sucks but now i'm like oh you're fucking crazy
01:20:22
yes because he said uh the quote is um that he didn't want to hurt him and shit i'm not gonna
01:20:32
be able to find it because i've i've gone so far into my show business fantasy that i have
01:20:38
no idea where i am in this document make up a line he oh that's right this is my movie
01:20:45
He said, what the fuck do you want? He basically said, there it is, there it is.
01:20:53
Are you sure about that? Yeah. No, I'm just reading to myself now. What a great story this is.
01:20:59
God, this is fucking crazy. Something when she just stopped reading to the audience.
01:21:05
He said, then I got bolder and I used to shadow him from room to room. It was sort of a game.
01:21:12
Gave me a thrill. It was the first time in my life I'd ever had anyone at my mercy.
01:21:19
That's not a game. It's also not at your mercy because he's choosing to watch fucking Ed Sullivan or whatever.
01:21:25
Yeah, he's living his life. He doesn't know you're there. You're not, yeah. That's so Theodore.
01:21:35
But then here's the rest of that quote. I didn't want to hurt him. It was miserable hot in the summer and my feet froze dead in the winter in that attic, but it was all part of the price I was willing to pay.
01:21:46
I guess you can't, I can't tell you why I stuck it out. I guess because I was in a world all my own.
01:21:52
I used to go down and look out the window and watch the postman go by. Nobody's written to me in 25 years.
01:21:59
Whenever I saw people on the street, I hated them and I'd go back to my attic. I relate.
01:22:06
Nobody's written to me. no if only he had one gotten one letter if only phil was like oh this is for you chad
01:22:13
even just a bill or something yeah but no he was just mad about mail everyone's got their reasons
01:22:21
you know um and then he said about the night of the murder everything would have been all right
01:22:27
and phil peters would have been alive today if he hadn't caught me robbing the ice box his
01:22:31
fucking fault that you broke in and yeah murdered him phil was asking for it uh it was him or me
01:22:37
I thought he'd gone out, but he was taking a nap. I hit him with the stove shaker.
01:22:42
What's that? I've looked it up so many, I cannot figure out what a stove shaker is.
01:22:46
It's like a grate or something. You shake the stove with it. In my movie, it's just going to, it's going to be like a huge, like an iron statue.
01:22:56
Okay. Well, I like the kitchen angle though. Maybe, maybe it could be a cast iron skillet.
01:23:03
Okay. I'm not, listen, I'm like suddenly, it's my movie too but this is all you I'm just kidding you
01:23:10
I want to work with you I want to collaborate alright let's keep with the skillet
01:23:19
I don't know how what about the hot dish tray that he had gotten from me next door
01:23:29
it comes back around she makes casseroles in a cast iron square that weighs 200 pounds
01:23:36
Right. Please return this when you're done, Phil. And don't break a bone. Oh, Phil.
01:23:43
So I hit him with the stove, cast iron skillet. When he tried to run for help, when it was over,
01:23:49
I ran to the attic. I was sitting on the trap door when you were pounding on it from below the night you found him So they actually went and were like what this And then we like oh we can open it And probably so then that means it doesn matter All right guys follow through
01:24:06
everyone. Life lesson, follow through, follow through. So he theater companies. Do we have
01:24:13
any more pictures? Steven sent him. You might not. There we go. What is it? Oh, it's a
01:24:21
trap door house. Ooh. Oh, yeah. This is the attic. Look at that guy's 40s hair all greased up.
01:24:27
There's the light on the wire. Look at that guy's grease using Dapper Dan in his hair.
01:24:32
This is some pee. There's his ironing board bed over there. Man. And, uh, wow, that's depressing.
01:24:43
Okay. He confessed and he was convicted and sentenced to a life prison in the Colorado State Penitentiary.
01:24:52
What if I pronounce Colorado wrong? He went in on November 18th, 1942, and he remained there for 23 years
01:25:00
and eventually became the prison librarian. All right. I mean, he died in the prison hospital
01:25:09
on May 16th, 1967, and the local press dubbed him the Spider-Man of Moncrief Place,
01:25:17
which is the street he lived on, Because when Detective Fred Zarna looked into the attic,
01:25:21
which is probably that guy with the rad hair, he said a man would have to be a spider
01:25:26
to stand it so long up in that place. Whoa. There's your story, everybody. That was fun.
01:25:37
It was nice. I cannot tell you how glad I am. I don't have to follow that. Yeah, right?
01:25:44
Yeah, right? It was great. you gotta go to those old creepy ones i know i never did the old creepy ones
01:25:50
i'm always like here's a new one i'll bum you the fuck out because it's recent you're one of you are probably related to this person it's super real
01:25:58
yeah you're gonna hate it yeah okay we're back from karen's creepy story any updates no updates on the spider-man of denver
01:26:11
But at the end of my story, I suggest that you should look into more old, creepy cases.
01:26:17
We didn't have the network at that point. We couldn't have known that we would someday have a podcast with Paul Hulls himself and Kate Winkler Dawson herself called Barry Bones that does literally exactly that.
01:26:30
So cool. It's so exciting. It's almost like we've got someone else to do our homework.
01:26:35
Yes. We pay the smart kids at school. We go out first and then we hire professionals to come and do it right.
01:26:42
We did it a little backwards, but what are you going to do? But hey. Okay. And then I forgot about this one, the hi-fi murders.
01:26:48
We get a hometown story about it. It's so fucking chilling. Let's listen to it. And then I have some corrections as well.
01:26:55
So just keep that in mind while you're listening. Right. All right. Should we do a hometown murder?
01:27:02
Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's do it. Hold on. I feel like we have to pick the person not who's raising their hand,
01:27:11
but who everyone around them is pointing at. What's that? We should pick the person not who's raising their hand,
01:27:16
but who all their friends are going, because they're like, this fucking girl won't stop talking about her dad's grandma.
01:27:24
Karen, what about her? No, no, no. They've had enough. I'm not allowed. They've had enough time.
01:27:29
She doesn't let me. Let's do you in the white shirt. It's just become a rule that I don't get a pic.
01:27:41
Is Vince on the side? There he is. Oh, there's Vince. You have to go this way. This one?
01:27:50
She said, just turn it on. I don't know. I don't see a thing. Just use the microphone the way it's supposed to be used.
01:27:58
Vince is here. There's no thing to turn it on. I swear to gosh, there's no on switch on that thing.
01:28:08
We are not just that. Oh, hi! The husband did it! Look at her shirt. Her shirt says, the husband did it.
01:28:23
Can I have that? You can't read. Yeah, you can't read. I have been using my college skills to cram.
01:28:30
Uh-huh. But I failed most of the tests when I did that. But maybe I can... Just remember it.
01:28:35
Just talk it out. You'll be fine. Wait, what's your name? My name is Megan. Hi, Megan.
01:28:40
Bleep it, Stephen. Bleep it. Bleep it. Last name? Uh-oh. No one gets to yell at Stephen.
01:28:46
Yeah, that's our job. Where are you from? I am from Ogden, Utah. Great. I trekked here with my cousin, Kara Elizabeth.
01:28:57
Hey, ladies. She's been a fan from the beginning and said, you've got to listen to this podcast.
01:29:02
Good job. Oh, thank you. It's our thing. Thank you. We owe you $20. Between Ebola and my favorite murder, we're the weird ones in our Mormon family.
01:29:12
You have Ebola? You have Ebola? No, we like it. The disease? Yeah, we like to read about it and then pretend like we have it.
01:29:20
What does it do? Does it just deteriorate? It's bad shit. Ooh, I love it. Your eyes will bleed.
01:29:25
Okay. But listen, if you survive 10 days, you're in the clear. Okay. Okay. All right, tell the story.
01:29:30
Okay, so Ogden, Utah, this is the really big-time murder in Ogden. I'm going to brush over it because it's pretty grisly.
01:29:40
Great. If you want to know more. You're here. We'll give you some links at the end of the show.
01:29:44
So my mother went to high school with the survivor of the Hi-Fi murders. Oh, the Hi-Fi murders are so fucked up.
01:29:52
It is. I've never heard of this. I have written it Hi murders I have written it to do it April 24th 1970 I crammed And to my fourth grade teacher mother
01:30:08
who will listen to this at a later date, I took a cookie today. Uh-oh. But that was at noon.
01:30:14
She's fucked up. No, that was at noon. We have great video of me worried that Karen's going to yell at me.
01:30:20
Just don't talk slow, that's all. I'm talking. Yeah, you got it. Just focus. So 1974, we've got, I believe her name's Shelly Ainsley.
01:30:31
She's 18 years old. She works with Stanley Walker. They are in the hi-fi shop that sells speakers, music, you know, total 1974 thing going on.
01:30:41
It's closing time. Little 16-year-old Courtney Nasebit walks in and says, Hey, thanks for letting me park in the parking lot while I had to run some errands.
01:30:53
He's down there talking with these guys. And that's when these three bastards come in and try to kill these people.
01:31:01
They tie them up. They dump Drano down their ears. What? And mouths. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
01:31:06
And mouths. Down their mouths and ears. The second that it touches their mouths, they're burned.
01:31:11
Oh, my God. And they're... Sorry, just right away? Right away. Okay. It's initially the guy that did it said that they wanted some good stuff,
01:31:22
some speakers and things. But then as they're in there and they've tied them up, he's like, hey, wait a minute. I got something in the car. So clearly
01:31:29
He's got an idea what he wants. Yeah, there's a little bit of pre-planning keep torture
01:31:34
So, you know, your 18 year old doesn't come home from work Your 16 year old doesn't come home from running errands. So of course their parents come to find them and see where are my children?
01:31:46
Carol Naysbitt comes to find her 16 year old son goes down in the basement She is tied
01:31:52
given Drano and shot. Same thing happens to her. Yes. Then we've got Oren Walker.
01:32:01
He comes to find, he wants to find his son Stanley, who never came home from work.
01:32:06
He comes down there. They tie him up and they kick a pin into his ears. No, I don't want this part.
01:32:13
Into his ear, you say? Yeah. Okay. This part I don't want. Courtney. Keep going.
01:32:20
You can't pause. Courtney's beat. Power through it. Courtney's beat in the end These men decide they're going to just shoot everybody
01:32:28
Everybody dies except for Courtney Naisbitt Now this is some bad shit clearly But after weeks of investigation they find the three guys that did it
01:32:40
They are put to death They are executed Except for the getaway driver who is out amongst us
01:32:49
and I've tried to Facebook the shit out of this guy, but I can't find him. They were in the military.
01:32:54
He didn't know anything. They were all in the military, right? They were. They all worked on Hill Air Force Base.
01:32:59
What the fuck? Which is, you know, the central part of Utah. I mean, it's, and they were stationed there.
01:33:05
They said they needed money. Their pay sucked as military. And we do know our military needs to be supported a little bit more.
01:33:11
Yes. Child of a serviceman. But anyway, Courtney has lifelong ailments from this.
01:33:19
He gets married. He has children. He graduates from college. He lived a full life, and he died last year.
01:33:26
But I did think it was pretty damn amazing. He still went to high school. He still accomplished things, and, of course, became an advocate for victims' rights.
01:33:35
Wow. That's amazing. That's O-Town. That's O-Town. Girl, you went there. I'm proud of you, Ally.
01:33:46
Oh my God! Yeah, wait. Now take a second. Take it in. Take a second. Yeah, everyone applaud.
01:33:54
Yay! Yay! Look at her. Look at your girl. This is hard to do. It's very hard. Especially with that story.
01:34:02
When you're high in that story? Yeah. Holy fuck. I need a cookie. I need this shirt.
01:34:08
I need that shirt. Thank you so much. Thank you, cousin. She's so good. You're amazing.
01:34:15
Yes. That's how we do it. Thank you. Okay, we're back. Let's talk about some of the corrections on this hometown.
01:34:27
Okay, just to make things clear, a correction is that Megan identified one of the victims as Shelley,
01:34:32
but her name is actually Sherry Michelle Andley. She also said that only Courtney survived.
01:34:39
That's not correct. Stanley's father, Oren Walker, also survived and eventually testified against the perpetrators.
01:34:45
That part where the parents come to check on their kids is just like... The worst.
01:34:49
Gut-wrenching. Yeah. Megan mentioned the getaway driver still being out there and living among us.
01:34:55
That's not correct. The driver, Keith Leon Roberts, was arrested, convicted on two counts of aggravated robbery,
01:35:02
and spent several years in prison. In 1987, he was released on parole, and in 1992, he took his own life.
01:35:08
Also, she says three men entered the shop, but two men, Dale Selby Pierre and William Andrews, were definitely inside.
01:35:18
Both were ultimately arrested, convicted and sentenced to death. And as mentioned, Keith Leon Roberts, who claimed he was never inside the shop, was charged with aggravated robbery.
01:35:28
It's believed there were more accomplices, some of whom may have been inside the shop, too, but police have never been able to identify them.
01:35:35
That is just chilling. And then Megan says that Courtney passed away last year in 2016. That's not correct. He actually died in 2002.
01:35:44
And I am glad we never have to cover that case again because it's just terrible.
01:35:50
But Megan, listen, good job. And you're basically on par with the kind of job that we were doing with our research when we were doing this. And we would sit down and
01:36:00
Google stuff. So off the top of your head. Live shows, I don't think we expect anyone
01:36:05
to come up there and get all the dates and everything correct. That's not the point.
01:36:09
And we yell at you if you try to take a piece of paper out. Yeah, that's right. We make it as hard
01:36:13
as possible. But then here we'll just, you know, state it for the record. Right. Totally. Okay. So
01:36:18
this episode was originally titled Live at the Boulder Theater. But if we were naming it today
01:36:22
based on some fucking ridiculous ass thing we said in the episode, maybe we would call it.
01:36:27
Well, Dear Groupon, which is what Georgia thought I said. Dear Groupon. I love that.
01:36:35
Yeah. It has to be that. It could be called In My Movie about Karen's Spider-Man of Denver movie.
01:36:42
Because that's how obsessed I am with that story. Yeah. I absolutely will make that movie one day.
01:36:47
You must. And it'll be really cheap because it's all taking place just in an attic.
01:36:51
Right. Also, Sailor Salute, which is when I was talking about the time I saw Tommy Lee Jones and he gave me the old Sailor Salute.
01:36:59
If you're ever in trouble, you know who to call. Tommy Lee Jones. Yeah. God. All right.
01:37:05
Well thanks for listening to another episode of Rewind Let pop back into Boulder where we say goodbye from stage I bet the odds of finding somebody in this audience that not high were be very very low
01:37:23
Oh, yeah. Oh, sure. Very low. Yeah. These days, I bet people just get up in the morning and they're
01:37:29
just like a boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. Our Uber driver yesterday is amazing, like hippie chick
01:37:35
who probably goes to Burning Man. We were talking about it. She works at a dispensary.
01:37:40
And she was like, yeah, I have friends who wake up in the morning and have fucking weed butter on their toast.
01:37:45
Yeah. And I'm just like, have toast and smoke some weed, though. No, you fucking eat it
01:37:50
and then it comes on slow. And then all of a sudden, you're just walking around at work
01:37:54
and you're like, fuck. Don't stop smiling. Don't stop smiling. Everything's chill.
01:38:02
Just be chill. Someone asked a question. Just say yes, sit at your desk, put on your headphones.
01:38:09
I didn't realize I had that song in me until right now. Wow, that was gorgeous. They know.
01:38:15
That was... They know. That's your next song. That might be. Like how to deal with being high Can you I did that one already Can you You have to write it down for me after we done Steven You guys Uh this has been fucking awesome This is
01:38:31
the first weekend of our 2017 fall tour. We are kicking it off. What a great place to start.
01:38:38
Night two. Night two. Colorado. Colorado. What a great fucking place to start this tour.
01:38:44
Seriously. It's like, it's very touching. It's very lovely how much support we get from you guys and love.
01:38:54
We really appreciate it. And we very much want you to stay sexy. And don't get ready!
01:39:02
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