00:00:00
This is exactly right. Isn't some far off concept? It's already here. Next starts now.
00:00:33
Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye. If audiobooks are your thing, or if you've been meaning to listen to more of them,
00:00:40
you should check out a podcast called Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club, hosted by Cal Penn.
00:00:46
Each episode spotlights standout audiobooks on Audible across all kinds of genres.
00:00:51
Sci-fi, comedy, romance, thrillers, and more. With Cal talking to guests who help break down what makes each story worth listening to.
00:00:57
It's a fun, easy way to discover your next great audiobook. Check out Earsay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:06
Goodbye. What's up, y'all? Summer's got a different tempo. Everything's a little looser, brighter.
00:01:12
One plan turns into another. You hear something, you stay a little longer. Next thing you know, you're somewhere you didn't plan to be.
00:01:19
It's those in-between moments. That's where the ideas hit. Conversations stretch out.
00:01:24
Little memories sneak up on you. Sometimes it's just about what's in your hand, that color, that chill.
00:01:32
The new tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks. Guava and passion fruit flavors with mango pineapple flavored pearls.
00:01:39
Yeah, that feels like summer before you even taste it. Funny how one small stop becomes the best part of the day.
00:01:47
Start your summer rhythm with Starbucks. Try the new tropical butterfly refresher from Starbucks.
00:01:56
Thank you. What's up, Denver? Denver! My God, we're going to need hearing aids after this city.
00:02:54
I swear to God. I always forget that's going to happen until I start walking on stage and then it like surprises
00:03:04
me. Wow. Wow. Hi. Thank you guys for being here. Oh my God, Denver. This is, this has been real.
00:03:18
Yeah. Thanks for being so patient these six years and waiting for us to come back. Come back.
00:03:25
We really appreciate that. We do. I'm really mad, though, because she has a sign, and she's not wrong.
00:03:34
What's it say? It says, Georgia, you promised air guitar. Do you remember? No. I said, if we ever go back on tour, I'll do air guitar.
00:03:46
Okay. But I need music. But I need music. Here, wait. I'll do it. Vince. No, no.
00:03:55
Thank you. Thank you. Not the worst. She clearly didn't think we were ever going to come back on stage.
00:04:04
I think that's what we can interpret from that. I'm going to barf. That was just an air guitar and nothing on stage.
00:04:12
And that's what we do here. And that's what we do. So last night, was anyone here last night?
00:04:19
Thank you. Thank you, Front Row. The rest of you. I don't know. The rest of them were at Lincoln Park last night.
00:04:25
You assholes. We know. We know what you're like back there. Last night was fun because we forgot how to do this.
00:04:34
It was our first night back in six years. We just kept calling line, line over and over.
00:04:40
No one had the script in hand. It was terrible. We forgot the basics. But tonight is going to be fucking like.
00:04:49
Yeah. Oh. Like, this is the podcast My Favorite Murder. Oh, yeah. There's one of them.
00:05:00
That's Karen Kilgaris. That's Georgia Hartstark. We literally forgot to do that last night.
00:05:07
Like, we literally forgot to introduce ourselves. Didn't do it. Simply didn't introduce ourselves or the show.
00:05:13
Like, true show business professionals. It was... But you know what did happen is a moth, like, flew out of my dress.
00:05:21
and just hung out on stage all night. Yeah. It was pretty special. The moth was the third lead of the show last night.
00:05:29
And then we found out that you guys love moths here, apparently. Crazy. They're good luck, right?
00:05:36
Yeah. Why doesn't anyone ever, like, I'm the only person who knows that. I made it up.
00:05:42
She made it up. Yeah. That's that thing with when you're the only person that knows something
00:05:46
because you're just lying. You might have been lying. Moths are good luck. Like in Silence of the Lambs.
00:05:54
You know that fairy tale movie Silence of the Lambs Someone made a bracelet for us last night that said may I use your phone please If you know you know
00:06:07
Right? Yeah. And you went to a baseball game, right? Oh, the first day I was here,
00:06:15
my sister, who's very bossy, told me that I had to go to the Rocky Stadium and see what was going on over there,
00:06:25
just so happened they were playing the young San Francisco Giants. I know it's probably called something else.
00:06:30
This isn't about correct details. I hope you know that. So they were playing the young San Francisco Giants, where I'm from.
00:06:39
So it was just like, you know, all good. And then... Except there was a fight in the crowd, right?
00:06:45
Even better. I don't think it was a little good. Come on. Was it you? Did you start with that?
00:06:49
It was me. I went down there, I was like, why don't you guys act more like hockey players?
00:06:53
And they were like, fine. And then they did. No, it was gorgeous. It was beautiful.
00:06:59
The sun set. I was like, yeah, I get it. I get Denver. You get sports. Oh, Denver.
00:07:03
Yes, for sure. Sports, we stood there for half an hour and kind of looked around.
00:07:08
They were like, gorgeous. Okay, here we go. We'll find out the score later. And what have you been doing?
00:07:15
I went to a vintage store yesterday, because you have to. and I found this literal fucking dress there.
00:07:23
Thank you. Do you want to take a pass? Oh, thank you. Yeah, just go ahead and show everybody.
00:07:27
Oh, look at her go. No pockets because vintage doesn't really do that. They won't do it.
00:07:35
They're so like, women don't need pockets. They need a handbag, you know. Fuck you.
00:07:41
It was called, I just said the name. Bombshell. Bombshell. Thank you. Bombshell Vintage.
00:07:46
Very fucking awesome store. Promo code murder. Oh, I forgot my ring. Shit. Well, show's over.
00:07:54
Wait. Goldmine. Goldmine. It was called Goldmine. Oh, shit. Thank you, Vince. Should Vince come out and just say hi for one second?
00:08:09
There he is right there. Yeah. There he is. My husband. Thank you. Thank you. We decided that's our new thing for this tour
00:08:22
is we're going to do a lot of this at each other. Everybody loves that. Kind of phony.
00:08:27
Because we're so humble. You know? You guys know that about us. Bless and blessed be and bless you.
00:08:34
This is a Christian true crime comedy. No, it's fucking not. That's the reveal in these six years.
00:08:40
We have married Christ and dedicated our lives. You came to the wrong show. What else?
00:08:49
Also, I'll show my dress. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Show your dress. I'm sorry. Yes.
00:08:59
Pockets. Pockies. What do you have in there? A little lip gloss in case my mouth gets so dry that my lips stick to my teeth.
00:09:07
Showbiz, baby. Showbiz. Cool. Well, I forgot to put the Kleenex in my Spanx tonight, so my nose is just going to free
00:09:16
run for the whole show. Let it go. It's your show. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, I found out that nervous nose running is a thing.
00:09:25
So that's what I have. NNR? On top of everything fucking else that I have. You're suffering from NNR?
00:09:31
That's terrible. So sorry. You don't have to suffer alone. If you suffer from NNR, or someone in your family does.
00:09:39
I might need a tissue, Vince. I'm sorry. Thank you. We just keep making them come out over and over.
00:09:47
that's the new bit that's the new act oh my god never mind she has oh we're good thank you so much
00:09:53
classy very classy thank you angel thank you see see how it is oh my god i almost stuck that sticker the open here on my chest because that's what i do when i like
00:10:07
eat an apple i put the sticker on myself oh thanks vince he's clearly not watching the show backstage
00:10:16
thank you just kidding just kidding i thought you guys were really upset about my apple eating
00:10:22
no okay oh wait a second i think we do have to talk about the hometowns from last night
00:10:28
look some of you were there and you know we just want to talk about how it was for us
00:10:34
first of all a woman named katie sat front and center dressed as a hot dog and we were like this is the best and then we're like great you can be the audience ambassador and
00:10:48
teach us how to pronounce everything that we're going to mispronounce in this town and she's like
00:10:52
i'm not from here we're like fuck you katie and then when we met her later she was like
00:10:57
i really thought a lot more people would dress like hot dogs like we're hot dog cosplay live podcast comedy show
00:11:07
Oh, yeah. Christian, cosplay, hot dog. Thank you. So many corners to touch. Negotiate.
00:11:15
But this was my favorite. This truly is a misunderstanding. We didn't truly, we didn't know our lines.
00:11:23
So when it came to the part where we're supposed to tell people like, hey, here's the rules for hometowns.
00:11:27
People want you to do it local. You know, don't take too long, blah, blah, blah.
00:11:32
And we didn't say any of that. We're just like, get up here and tell your hometown.
00:11:35
And so the first person, her name was Katie also, I think. I have no fucking clue, but okay.
00:11:42
I could just be like, look, everyone's name, Katie. But she came up and we were like, hi, what's your name?
00:11:48
And she's like, Katie. And we're like, where are you from? And she was like, Broward, Florida.
00:11:52
And the entire audience starts booing. Don do it again Don do it again We didn say it It was totally on us Like we didn say what on them too don this is not lincoln park for fuck sake be nice i don have to be nice you have to be
00:12:08
nice but she basically said broward florida and then stood there smiling and we're just like we
00:12:14
go what's your hometown and she's like broward florida and we're like thanks so much and she
00:12:19
She walked off the stage. Yeah. But then later we met her in the VIP and she was like, oh, no, I had a story.
00:12:27
I just got scared and left the stage. See what I mean about what you did? So here's, actually, here's a good tip.
00:12:35
If you really want to do a hometown, stop drinking now. Yes. Because it's scary up here.
00:12:41
And being shit-faced does not help with it. Or I guess it does a little bit. I don't know.
00:12:45
And if you really want to do a hometown and you can't stop drinking now, you're an alcoholic.
00:12:51
So there's a lot to get from this show tonight, a lot to glean from the show. Hey, shall we sit down?
00:13:00
I guess so. Thanks. Georgia did remember that line last night. That was a huge relief.
00:13:08
I sure did. We knew to sit. Whew. Wow. Okay. Yeah, let's cheer for the logo. designed by Georgia Hartstark.
00:13:20
Does everybody know that? Yeah, but like the Notes app or something. It was saved in 2016.
00:13:28
Yeah. Wow, something like this. Okay, let's do this podcast. Do you want this to be the logo?
00:13:33
Yes. And I'm like, do you want this to be the theme song? And she's like, yes. And I'm like, all right, let's do this thing.
00:13:38
We'll quit in three weeks. And we did. And we did. Do you want to tell them about this podcast a little bit?
00:13:45
this is a true crime comedy podcast. Thank you. Thank you. Some people don't like that combination.
00:13:53
They don't like the idea. They get very sensitive about it. So we do want to tell you that the reason
00:13:59
that we do this podcast is because we have loved true crime since we were young because we were
00:14:04
incredibly traumatized by our childhoods. And one of the ways that we deal with our trauma is through
00:14:11
humor and comedy and the other way is by reading a lot of true crime and we found that combination
00:14:18
to be very satisfying when we met each other cathartic even you'd say i would say yeah and so
00:14:24
um we know that there are people who would argue or maybe have other things to say
00:14:30
and what we would like to say is get the fuck out right now it'd be so fun if like the entire first three rows were like we're gone someday someday it's
00:14:44
like the bus from the senior center accidentally stopped here it's just like a whole fucking row of
00:14:49
grandmas you're just like that but that happened in florida remember the live show and yes we had
00:14:55
a live show in florida stop booing broward florida um we had this live show in florida
00:15:02
and there were these two women who were older and they were all dressed up and very fancy looking,
00:15:07
but total, someone's fancy grandmas. And I couldn't stop looking at them the whole time
00:15:12
where I'm like, whose fancy grandmas are these that are here at our live show in Florida?
00:15:16
And we met them afterwards and they were season ticket holders that were like, what's this?
00:15:20
And they fucking came to this swear fest murder fucking show where we were like, oh my God.
00:15:28
But did we win them over? We sure fucking did. Yeah, we did. They are listeners now.
00:15:33
Yeah, we did. Yeah, so if you don't like it, there are grandmas better than you out there.
00:15:39
In Florida, for fuck's sake. In fucking Florida. So, like, you have no excuse. Can you imagine?
00:15:44
I'm not being mean tonight. I'm not sure. We are working through a lot of emotions.
00:15:49
It's so exciting to be here tonight. It is so exciting. It really is. It is. I think you're first tonight.
00:15:59
I am. I double-checked. Yeah, yeah. And then I said to Molly, we should really have that in the header of our, like, when they print the stories.
00:16:06
And she goes, mm-hmm, it's there. It's there. Yeah. Just read the fucking paper.
00:16:10
Yeah. I'm like, you are fucking smart. That's great. But you should probably tell us anyways.
00:16:14
Love working with you. Love working with you. Oh, and Molly also sent us all of our lines.
00:16:23
That was a little, that's a little passive aggressive of her. It says, what are you wearing tonight, Karen?
00:16:29
It says, what's up, city? What's up, city? I think we got that one. At least I'm not having a hot flash tonight.
00:16:40
I literally had a hot flash on stage last night. Yeah, you better. You got to represent the peri and the menopausals.
00:16:46
Yeah. Right? When I was at lunch today, Vince and I were at this bar, because of course we were, and
00:16:54
two seats down, I just hear out of the corner of my ear. Corner of your ear, absolutely.
00:16:59
I think I hear, oh, a hot flash. And I turn and look, and she's taking a little portable fan out of her purse.
00:17:07
And I just, like, we bonded. I was like, did you just say hot flash? I did. And just standing herself.
00:17:13
Brilliant. Anyway, Karen, you're first tonight. Anytime you have a story like that, please jump in.
00:17:22
All right. Protect your pet with insurance from PetsBest. Plans start from less than a dollar a day.
00:17:31
Visit PetsBest.com. Pet insurance products offered and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC,
00:17:36
are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company or Independence American Insurance Company.
00:17:39
For terms and conditions, visit www.PetsBest.com backslash policy. Products are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company, Independence American Insurance Company,
00:17:46
or MS Transverse Insurance Company and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services, LLC.
00:17:50
One dollar a day premium based on 2024 average new policyholder data for accident and illness plans pets age zero to ten Let talk about modern home shopping It sort of become a fun side hobby right Scrolling listings at night dreaming about kitchens you never seen or backyards you haven even stepped foot in
00:18:07
All from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to own,
00:18:13
but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script. With listings that update within minutes,
00:18:20
and tours you can book right from the Redfin app, You can see your dream home the moment it appears.
00:18:26
Now, liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it, that's where Redfin comes in.
00:18:31
Redfin has over 2,200 agents with local expertise. And Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents.
00:18:40
That means they want to help you win, not just window shop. Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait.
00:18:47
This could actually be home. So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit redfin.com to start finding and start owning.
00:18:55
That's redfin.com. 48% fewer calories than regular products. Calorie content has been reduced on average from 162 to 92 calories per serving.
00:19:25
Data accurate as of 2-20-26. So maybe some of you were here when we played the Belco Theater in 2019.
00:19:37
Thank you. Thank you. That was an awesome show. God. Those are all my cousins. So that night when we played the Belco, and sorry to keep on mentioning the rival theater, Paramount.
00:19:48
but um i told the story of the colorado cannibal alfred packer um thank you so much i agree
00:19:58
uh so really quick before i get into my story which is not that story but i'm gonna just refresh
00:20:05
you about that story um because it is a part of this current news story if you understand what
00:20:13
I'm saying. Do you? I'm there. I'm here. I'm going to focus more on you. I think it'll help more. Tell me the story.
00:20:19
It's your thing more. They're all drag-alongs. Oh, we didn't talk about the drag-alongs. We didn't.
00:20:27
It's supposed to go at the top of the speech about get the fuck out, but it's fine. Molly was right
00:20:31
about the notes. Okay. She's like, if you could just read them quickly before you walk on stage. And we're like,
00:20:37
no, no, we'll read them on stage after we forget them. It's the new show business.
00:20:43
Okay, so back in February of 1874, Alfred Packer was one of six gold miner prospectors, I think is more accurate, and they got lost in the San Juan Mountains during one of the worst winter storms Colorado had ever seen.
00:21:02
when the storm lets up Alfred is the only survivor he walks into the Indian agency
00:21:09
claiming that the rest of the group left him behind when his feet became frozen mean
00:21:15
so he says he doesn't know where they are but authorities start to get suspicious about him
00:21:23
when Alfred who was known to be penniless buys a horse and a saddle and starts drinking and playing a lot of cards in this saloon
00:21:31
He doesn't just eat them, he steals from them. Like, that's not cool. It's so gross.
00:21:36
It is. So they start questioning him further, and that's when he admits that he did eat the other five people in that party.
00:21:47
But he's basically, the whole story was, I was lost for a month. It was pure desperation.
00:21:52
He tells the whole story. Unfortunately, a little while later, an illustrator from Harper's Bazaar magazine
00:22:01
is out here figuring out what the Wild West is about, and he comes upon five dead bodies
00:22:07
that are lined up on a riverbank, and they've all been smashed in the head with a hatchet,
00:22:12
and one of them is decapitated. And those are the rest of the party Alfred Packer was traveling with.
00:22:19
So his story suddenly comes into question. Listen to me gasping, even though I was definitely there for the story.
00:22:26
Yes. I don't remember it. Yeah, it's all new. Yeah, yeah, that's the fun of this. So he's arrested,
00:22:33
tried, found guilty on five counts of voluntary manslaughter, sentenced to 40 years in prison,
00:22:37
which is a huge sentence back then. He files appeal after appeal with the help of a friend,
00:22:44
but they're all denied. In 1901, he gets paroled. It's less than halfway through his sentence.
00:22:51
so today I'm going to tell you about that friend that helped Alfred Packer take two that helped
00:22:58
Alfred Packer the Colorado cannibal yep go free from jail this person was not a lawyer not a
00:23:05
politician she was a gossip writer turned investigative journalist who made her name
00:23:10
writing stories that earned her both respect and infamy and she was the first female reporter that
00:23:17
the Denver Post ever hired. You might know her by her pen name Polly Pry. This is the life story
00:23:25
of Nell Campbell. Hell yeah. Right? Great. Great job. The sources that were used in this story today
00:23:37
are a book by Julia Bricklin called The Woman Who Wrote the West. And there's around Polly Pry
00:23:44
and Nell Campbell, there's a lot of mythologizing, of course, when it's like old history like that,
00:23:48
and she herself was kind of a sensationalist, sensational journalist for some part of her career.
00:23:55
And Julia Brooklyn gets in there and basically separates all the fact from fiction.
00:24:00
and is amazing. That's all from Maren. I have not read this book. I don't. Stolen Valor,
00:24:05
I didn't read the book. There's also an article from Colorado Life Magazine by Matt Masich,
00:24:12
and the rest of the sources are in our show notes. You can go check those, I guess.
00:24:17
You guys love show notes. Show notes. It's your favorite thing. Okay, so here we go. Leonel Campbell, nicknamed Nell, is born November 27th, 1859 in Clinton,
00:24:28
Illinois. She's said to have lied about her birthday to everyone for her whole life,
00:24:33
but Julia Bricklin verifies that this is actually her real birthday. Okay, thank you, Julia. Nell's
00:24:39
parents are relatively wealthy, wealthy enough that she is educated at a private boarding school.
00:24:45
That's rich. Yeah. But it's back in a time where women are expected to blend in,
00:24:51
and Nell very much stands out. She's very striking. Now, this was a funny experience for me
00:24:57
today when I was going over all this. She's very striking. Her looks are described as kind of an alien-ish beauty
00:25:07
that supermodels have. She has a symmetrical face with a mix of classically feminine
00:25:12
and masculine features with a prominent jaw and oversized, piercing, cat-like eyes.
00:25:18
Can we take a look at Nell? I can't imagine. All right. Look at her gazing off. That literally looks like my grandma in a nightgown.
00:25:27
who was alien supermodel-like her whole life. I love the outfit. I almost wore that.
00:25:36
I mean, that is, she is Christmas tree-coated right now, isn't she? So, she also has a tendency to literally do whatever she wants at all times.
00:25:47
She does not care about societal conventions. One of us, one of us, one of us. for example she poses for this incredibly controversial photograph if you are under 18
00:25:59
please cover your eyes and pray to your chosen god let's take a look oh my god that is gorgeous
00:26:11
oh my god that's the rug from tonight so okay thank you so in her relationship with her first husband George Henry Anthony Jr. you know
00:26:29
there's a problem when he has three first names absolutely it happened every single time we don't
00:26:35
know how the first two we don't know how they met Nell's flair for drama and exaggeration makes it
00:26:41
very hard to pin down for example she claims that she was just a teenager when she met him
00:26:46
and that he was in his 50s, but actually in reality, she was in her mid-20s and he was almost 30.
00:26:53
What a weird brag, right? She's like, well, that old man snapped me right up. I was a child.
00:27:00
Just a child. The thing about it, though, is he was a married father of two. No, that's a big no.
00:27:09
When his wife finds out, of course, she gives him the boot. She files for a divorce, which is very scandalous at the time.
00:27:16
It's 1883. George and Nell then marry a few months afterwards in St. Louis. And so this story is not...
00:27:23
Someone cheered for St. Louis. This story... Yeah, you can. This story is not about George, Anthony, Henry, Anthony Jr.,
00:27:31
but it's worth it to digress to talk about him because he is kind of the worst. He's also...
00:27:38
He's a bum husband. He's a bum father. He's also a Nepo baby. he's the son of the seventh governor of Kansas
00:27:49
and his success in life is fully just brought to him by his rich father who helps him get one prestigious job after another.
00:27:59
So when he's in his late 20s, he's given a job at Leavenworth Prison replacing an experienced employee already holding the post.
00:28:08
It's so baffling that the local newspaper actually reports quote, to take away a man of experience and judgment and put in a white-headed boy seems like a folly.
00:28:20
Yeah, don't fuck around in a prison with employees, right? Like, that's the wrong, go to a bank and fuck around.
00:28:26
It's not very Nepo Baby to go to Leavenworth and be like, I'd love to spend a lot of time here.
00:28:32
Then in the mid-1880s, he's handed yet another high-paying gig, which he has no business doing,
00:28:39
which is working on the Mexican Central Railroad. He leaves that job then to start a lumber company with his father
00:28:46
and go cut down Mexican forests, just bad after bad. He and Nell move from Mexico to Texas to Kansas City,
00:28:54
and the whole time, sure, the whole time, Nell plays the role of a rich housewife.
00:29:01
She throws parties and entertains guests, and she keeps up appearances. But after four years, she gets bored, and she's done.
00:29:09
So the marriage is on the rocks, and she files for divorce. Scandal. George goes crawling back to his ex-wife after this.
00:29:20
Oh, come on, dude. Four years. Four years. While Nell ditches high society and heads to New York City
00:29:28
with all of her cash, jewelry, and expensive furs. But as we all know, New York's a very expensive town,
00:29:34
so she burns through that cash right quick. And this is before alimony or spousal support.
00:29:41
So obviously her role at this time in America would be to find another rich guy to marry.
00:29:48
But she's done with that life. She wants to earn a living as a songwriter and actress.
00:29:54
I mean that sounds pretty sweet Honey Honey Honey So she finds and befriends a very creative group of New York writers and editors and publishers and they recognize that Nell actually does have something very special about her
00:30:09
She's fiery, she's smart, and she is not easily intimidated by other people. So she's offered assignments with their newspapers, like the New York Herald and the New York Journal,
00:30:20
but it's mostly gossip columnists and society reporting. But it turns out Nell's made for that job.
00:30:28
She has this amazing ability to get people talking and telling stories. And that gets her the nickname Polly Pry.
00:30:36
What is it? Polly Pry? Oh, like you're prying the story. She just gets them shit-faced, I bet.
00:30:41
Yeah. I mean, that's the way to do it. Like two compliments, three shots. Now you're telling me everything about your life.
00:30:47
That's right. And you might remember I covered the story of Nellie Bly, who was the female reporter.
00:30:55
Her real name was Elizabeth Cochran, and she's the one that went into the insane asylum
00:30:59
and basically exposed how horrible that New York City insane asylum was. So basically people think that Polly Pry
00:31:07
is like a little play on Nellie Bly. Okay. Because that was 10 years before this time.
00:31:13
Just trying to put it in a timeline based on all the stories I've done on this podcast
00:31:18
and nothing else. So now it's the 1890s, and Nell is in her mid-30s. So she has a big family.
00:31:27
Two of her younger brothers have tuberculosis. And so her family moves to Colorado because the air is apparently very dry here.
00:31:36
Good job, you guys. And filled with moths. So after one of these younger brothers dies from the disease, Nell decides she's going to leave New York City and come to Denver to be with her family.
00:31:50
So after about a year, she is on a train, and she sits across from this man that she doesn't know,
00:31:57
who is old-fashioned style holding up a newspaper that he's reading. No, he isn't.
00:32:02
It just doesn't happen anymore, unless you're trying to hide from the cops. So she sees that this newspaper had done their headlines in red,
00:32:13
and she goes, how awful. And the owner of the newspaper is the guy holding the newspaper.
00:32:19
Yes, that's right. You just insult people by opening your mouth is a fun thing to do.
00:32:23
Yeah. I do it all the time. The story of my life? Yes. I didn't mean it like that.
00:32:29
So this man is Frederick Gilmer Bonfi, and he is the co-owner of the Denver Evening Post,
00:32:36
which is now the Denver Post. And it is Colorado's newspaper of record. So Nell, who, of course, Nell's very embarrassed,
00:32:47
but she's no stranger to putting her foot in her mouth, and she's very good at charming people.
00:32:52
And basically she recovers. She charms Frederick. He invites her to dinner. They go eat in the dining car.
00:32:59
They have this wonderful meal. And essentially it goes so well that by the end he offers her a job.
00:33:04
Hell yeah. Yeah. And so bad things happen and then you can get a job after. Just believe.
00:33:10
Believe that if you insult men enough, they'll give you a job. Yeah. We love it.
00:33:19
That's how it works. So at this point in Denver history, the city's population is booming,
00:33:24
and there is a serious competition between the local newspapers for readers. So Frederick and his business partner, Harry Tammen,
00:33:33
they really want to win the Colorado newspaper awards. Can we take a look at Harry and Frederick?
00:33:40
Ugh. Supermodels, alien-like in their beauty. Yeah, they look rich. doesn't look like he just pulled that mustache out of his pocket it's like it was just a bunch of
00:33:54
moths i can land it on his face this moth problem is really a problem and they all fly away oh it's
00:34:01
one big one anyway oh so um fortunately for them they have a real edge in the newspaper wars
00:34:14
because they've just hired good old Nell Campbell, Polly Pry, who pulls no punches,
00:34:19
so the Denver Post is primed for victory. And right off the bat, Nell's first interview makes waves.
00:34:25
It's with a political candidate who's running for senator, and Nell makes no bones about how she feels about this man.
00:34:32
She writes, quote, If tones could freeze, the marrow in my bones would have congealed then and there.
00:34:38
The voice of the would-be senator was so icily unfriendly. Wow. How would you say that?
00:34:45
Ding. What a dick. Fucking dick. She also describes him as, quote, tall, thin, nervous, and irritable, with a harsh voice and cold gray eyes.
00:35:00
And she also goes on to warn the public that if he wins a Senate race, political cartoonists will have a field day with him.
00:35:06
Wow. All right. And you're just like this skinny, nervous guy that's like, God damn it.
00:35:14
Just trying to make a living. Why did I talk to that goddamn woman? Author Julia Bricklin writes, quote, no, sorry, it's not a quote yet,
00:35:25
that Nell now begins to gravitate toward exposing, quote, those she considered particularly out of touch with progressive politics,
00:35:34
hypocritical, right, or entitled, or perhaps all of these things. So she's after it.
00:35:40
She's doing it. She is holding their feet to the fire in a time where women, and don't hold me to this because I'm not sure,
00:35:47
but I don't think they could vote yet. Pretty fucking sure that we couldn't. Here come the emails explaining to me how dumb I am But Nell is fearless in her reporting She publishes hit pieces on reverends
00:36:05
on city officials, even Colorado socialites, like the famous philanthropist and Titanic survivor,
00:36:11
the unsingable Molly Brown. She goes after Molly? She goes fucking after an unkillable socialite.
00:36:21
Wow. But despite that, she actually calls her, in one of her columns, quote, the worst kind of social climber.
00:36:28
Damn. This was probably before she almost froze to death in the icy waters of the North Sea.
00:36:36
Despite this, Nell and Molly eventually become friends. Yeah, yeah. Girl power. Nell's work is pretty polarizing.
00:36:46
Many readers wonder who the hell this woman thinks she is and why she's not making them flaky fresh biscuits instead of writing.
00:36:55
But her bluntness and her brashness make her a standout. She's not afraid to ask the hard questions, to show up uninvited, or to name names.
00:37:04
And because of that, her readers devour her articles. So now we're in 1899, and since Nell's bosses at the Post are always looking for ways to sell more newspapers,
00:37:15
they figure what better way to do that than to send their firecracker lady reporter out to check
00:37:21
on the colorado cannibal himself and nell says hell yes i'll go talk to that fucking cannibal
00:37:27
sounds good to me shut up yes so like that all happens yes and they're like hey you piss everyone
00:37:32
off why don't you go talk to this murdering cannibal here's another guy that pissed a bunch
00:37:37
of people off right yikes yes so nell travels a hundred miles south of denver to a prison
00:37:44
in Canyon City. You know what? It doesn't seem like it's a great place. I don't know.
00:37:53
Oh, the prison? Okay, so she has to follow the warden around. She like shadows him to get the
00:37:59
tour, and she finds this prison extremely disturbing. She can't stop thinking about
00:38:03
the difficult life circumstances that led each inmate to this awful place and how dark their
00:38:09
futures are and she's disgusted to learn that members of the public can pay 25 cents to come
00:38:16
and gawk at the prisoners oh no did you know that that was a thing they used to do what do they just
00:38:22
stand and stare yeah after church and how much do you think um 25 cents was back then okay and we're
00:38:30
in 18 it's like 1890 i can't find that fucking piece of paper so well i guess i'm gonna go
00:38:38
$12. $10. That was good. Oh, if you're a drag along, that was amazing. Like that was so close.
00:38:46
I know it doesn't sound close, but it was really close. I guessed like eight different monies from
00:38:51
a different time with Georgia last night. And I was never within a hundred thousand dollars.
00:38:56
We also decided we're not doing that anymore. Oh, that's right. That's right. That was the last one.
00:39:01
thank god goodbye dumb thing okay so ironically kind of Nell is introduced to Alfred Packer
00:39:10
in the prison kitchen oh I hear okay yeah just absorb it for a second yeah yeah yeah yeah that's
00:39:19
weird he is now around 58 years old and Nell uh not surprisingly gets a very bad vibe from him
00:39:25
You think? She will describe him in an article, and this is what Maren wrote. She goes, like, he's describing a cartoon devil.
00:39:36
It says, quote, dead black hair, glittering eyes, sooty mustache and goatee, and sarcastic smile.
00:39:44
End quote. That does, yeah. There's a tiny moth right now. For real? Yes, like a teeny tiny one.
00:39:49
Have you guys noticed it, or am I having a seizure? Now, do you think it's the same one from last night?
00:39:53
No. Do you think that one's dead? No, I don't know where that one went. Maybe in my petticoat.
00:40:02
But there's a teeny tiny one. Come on. Oh, you're trying to get it to land on your finger?
00:40:11
Come on, we've all seen Snow White, goddammit. Aw, that would be so cute. We would have a whole different show if moths started landing on our fingers.
00:40:22
See? You see? I'm not going crazy. what's the rule of the theater? No smoking, no children, no live animals.
00:40:31
And yet here we are contending with this moth all night long. Try to focus, everybody.
00:40:37
Okay. The kitchen meeting is quick, and she is very, she wants to spend more time with him.
00:40:42
She wants to talk to him more. So she sets up a formal interview for the next day.
00:40:47
But it doesn't start out well, because Alfred Packer, of course, is like, you're just here to sensationalize me
00:40:52
and to, you know, make his life worse. It's judgy of him. It's judgy of a cannibal.
00:40:59
Especially from his background, you know? It's like, give a little grace. You ate five people.
00:41:07
But when Nell gets Packer talking, he starts telling her his version of this infamous story,
00:41:14
explaining to his account that they crossed the San Juan Mountains, they got lost, supplies ran out,
00:41:22
he claims one man lost his mind and started shooting at the others and he he and so Alfred
00:41:31
was forced to shoot the shooter okay and kill him dead so it's just self-defense oh so sorry he's
00:41:38
basically saying the shooter killed the other four men then Alfred had to kill him and then he's like
00:41:44
and then I just had to eat everybody because that it's the age old wasn't me he claims cannibalizing
00:41:51
the dead men was just another act of survival So Nell is this is a convincing story to Nell She there with him face to face and she thinks this is compelling And whether he was a murderous cannibal or a man caught in an impossible position
00:42:06
she sees this as a great way to start the larger discussion of the difficulties that the accused face in this country in the U.S. justice system.
00:42:15
Which, fuck yeah, 100 years ago. Not even close. She focuses on whether or not Packer was actually fairly tried, not so much about the cannibalism.
00:42:32
She's able to brush cannibalism aside for just a little while. And the more she investigates, the more she's convinced that he was not, that there was no hard evidence or eyewitnesses presented at his trial that definitely proved that his story was false.
00:42:48
And there was a ton of hysteria and, of course, a ton of sensational reporting that Nell believes led to his conviction.
00:42:56
So she becomes hell-bent on getting Alfred Packer justice. She convinces her boss, Frederick Balfi, with the moth mustache, to let her write sympathetic coverage of him in the post.
00:43:08
Because she wants her readers to envision a scenario where they might somehow wind up in an impossible situation.
00:43:14
situation convicted of a crime based solely on circumstantial evidence with no way to advocate
00:43:20
for yourself minus the cannibalism minus the cannibalism so now it's a big job for for Nell
00:43:30
as Polly Pry everyone in America knows Alfred Packer as the guy who ate five other guys so
00:43:37
this is one of the Post's most incendiary reporters basically vigorously defending
00:43:45
Alfred Packer. There's backlash. But when an opportunist lawyer named William Anderson gets
00:43:52
involved, it like ratchets things up a notch. So this part of the story is a little fuzzy,
00:43:57
but essentially this guy, William Anderson, tries to swindle money from both the owners of the Post
00:44:03
and from Alfred Packer saying that he'll represent both of them, and he takes retainer money from both.
00:44:11
And then when the guys from the Post find out, he did it to reporters. It's like, they'll find out.
00:44:19
They're really good at finding stuff out. That's kind of their thing. So they confront Anderson at the newspaper offices.
00:44:27
So we don't know which one, if it was Frederick or Harry, but one of them directly accuses Anderson of having no ethics.
00:44:35
He threatens to get him disbarred unless he returns that money. And then Frederick thinks he sees Anderson reaching for a weapon,
00:44:42
so he lunges at him and holds him down. Polly goes over it and tries to beg them to stop fighting.
00:44:49
As it turns out, Anderson does have a gun on him. And so he wrestles himself free.
00:44:55
He grabs that gun. He fires it twice. He hits both Frederick and Harry. Holy shit.
00:45:00
And then when he steps forward to finish Harry off with a third shot, Nell steps in front of the gun and shields her boss.
00:45:10
So Harry Tannen will later say about this, quote, Just as Anderson was about to fire the third shot,
00:45:16
Polly Pry rushed between us. Had it not been for her, doubtless I would have been killed.
00:45:21
She placed herself in front of his pistol and moved with it as he tried to reach me.
00:45:28
Badass. Would you do that? For your boss? No fucking way. Well, I think there's a thing with, like, guns.
00:45:37
Maybe it's because it was, like, Wild West-y era, where it's like they were probably super used to guns,
00:45:42
where people are always, like, at church where it, like, falls out of your pocket.
00:45:45
Sorry. Yeah. But stepping in front of a gun. Wow. Yeah. It's big. The good news is both of the owners of the post survive.
00:45:56
Anderson is taken into custody for attempted murder. and Nell becomes an outright legend.
00:46:03
Stories start to circulate that she's the one that wrestled the gun out of Anderson's hand
00:46:07
and that her big skirts caught the bullets that would have killed her boss. She wrote that herself.
00:46:13
Yes, she did write that. I bet she fucking made it up. Good for her. She deserves it.
00:46:16
Yeah. Were there typewriters back then? I think so. In the end, Nell's reporting on Alfred Packer
00:46:27
creates enough discourse that popular opinion about his crimes and conviction actually does
00:46:34
change. People seem to agree that it is impossible to tell whether his story of self-defense and
00:46:39
survival are true or if he maliciously killed those five men, and that's what we call reasonable doubt
00:46:46
in this country. So Alfred Packer winds up being paroled, not pardoned, and he's paroled in early
00:46:57
January of 1901. So she now delivers his release papers herself to him. Packer spends the next six years as a free man.
00:47:07
He dies of a stroke in 1907 at the age of 65. A devout vegetarian. Just kidding.
00:47:14
Oh! That was not very tasteful. Oh! She loves a pun. She loves a pun. Thank God I didn't do the five guys
00:47:25
joke. I was... Oh, my God. Wait, do it. No, that was it. You guys were all thinking it, the original five guys.
00:47:36
Their bodies were laid down on the riverbed and a shit ton of French fries over here.
00:47:40
Like, why so many French fries? That's French fries for four. Okay. So, her experience in interviewing Alfred Packer gets Nell really fired up about the
00:47:55
injustices of the American prison system, so she starts reporting on it extensively.
00:48:00
She works to get other incarcerated people released from prison. She also investigates the abuse and neglect inside the state-run asylums here.
00:48:09
Wow. Yeah. And just like Nellie Bly, she also investigates the treatment of patients in military hospitals.
00:48:16
And she even starts writing about the very, at the time, secretive practice of polygamy within the Mormon church.
00:48:23
Damn, girl. She doesn't give a shit. I like her. Yeah, I do too. Yeah. You'll like her more when you hear this.
00:48:29
in 1903, she gets a tip about the horrific conditions at the Fort Lewis Indian School
00:48:36
in Durango. So if you don't know about Indian schools, horrifying. I think people are hearing
00:48:42
about them more and more now. But this was one of the many U.S.-run boarding schools that were
00:48:47
built to assimilate Native children to European American culture. They were horribly abusive.
00:48:54
and at the time, most white Americans did not know or they did not care about those abuses
00:49:02
against Native American children, but Nell cared very much. So she starts doing some digging
00:49:07
and she books a 10-day trip to Durango and just starts interviewing anyone that will talk to her about these schools.
00:49:14
She hears one horrible story after another about children being denied medical care,
00:49:20
being forced to perform brutal labor, and being sexually abused by the school superintendent, Dr. Thomas Breen.
00:49:28
He was also sexually assaulting teachers. Like, it was fucking horrifying mayhem.
00:49:35
There was some bad stuff back then and now. Nell's reporting on this school will later be described
00:49:41
as some of her most heartfelt, detailed, and deeply researched reporting of her career.
00:49:46
And like her Alfred Packer reporting, it actually creates change in a small way,
00:49:53
and that is that she gets Dr. Breen fired from his post. Great. We like that. The power of journalism.
00:50:01
Yeah. Back in D.C., the Bureau of Indian Affairs is not happy with her. Of course not.
00:50:09
The commissioner puts out a statement minimizing her reporting as, quote, sensational newspaper attacks.
00:50:15
Okay. Okay. Okay, except for they were so specific, though. Yeah. So specific. So the thing about Nellie is, or Nell, sorry,
00:50:27
is that around the same time, she's also writing scathing attacks on Colorado labor unions.
00:50:32
She goes so far as to accuse the leaders of exploiting the working class and intentionally creating chaos.
00:50:39
So this is not unusual for a reporter of her time, and there may have been corruption taken place.
00:50:45
We all know it's everywhere. But her writing on this issue veers into the highly problematic, as many things were back then, and unfortunately not uncommon.
00:50:55
She talks about things like class and immigration, writing derogatory columns about the Irish immigrants moving to Colorado to work in the mines.
00:51:07
It's always just the different new people that they want to attack. Goddamn. So, on one hand, she tackles these amazing progressive issues like prison conditions and the Native American boarding schools.
00:51:25
And she also does some articles about the treatment of black soldiers in the U.S. Army.
00:51:31
She does a ton of stuff about women's suffrage, but then she digs her heels in on this labor issue.
00:51:37
And it's not good. She's blinded by her biases. She doesn't seem to realize how contradictory her stances are.
00:51:45
And she doesn't care how much anger she's basically creating, because that's kind of what she's like.
00:51:51
Then in the early 1900s, she hears a knock at her door, and when she opens it, a man is standing there.
00:51:58
He fires twice. He's holding a gun, he fires twice. But Nella fucking starts to slam the door nice and early,
00:52:05
so the bullets get stuck in her nice big wooden door. Shit! Wow. Yeah. And the man runs away. He's never caught. Nell assumes this man is somehow from
00:52:18
the labor unions and he's been sent to assassinate her. The labor unions themselves suggest that
00:52:23
maybe Nell staged the attack to drum up publicity and sympathy, which is something that she had done.
00:52:28
And of course, to sell papers. It's also possible that this man hated Nell for any of the other
00:52:35
incendiary reporting that she had done over the last decade or for the fact that she was just a
00:52:41
woman. There are so many reasons to hate her. But either way, when she gets into this part of her
00:52:48
career, her stance on unions and then the controversial reporting that the government
00:52:52
gets mad about, about the Indian school atrocities, the Denver Post fires her. So here's the good news.
00:53:01
It doesn't stop her because at heart, she really is this investigative reporter.
00:53:05
So at 44 years old, and this is like in the early 1900s, she basically starts a sub stack.
00:53:13
And she names it Polly Pry. It's a publication, the only female-led publication of the time.
00:53:22
And it's great. It's split into four sections. The first one is gossip, of course, first and foremost.
00:53:30
Second is Denver and Colorado politics. The third, oh, sorry, the gossip section is called Tell the Truth and Shame the Devil, which is hilarious.
00:53:40
Fuck. That's a good one. That's like saying Jesus wants you to gossip. Like, shut up now.
00:53:46
You are crazy, girl. Another section on local theater. And, of course, the last on automobiles.
00:53:54
Sure It like Bridgerton There something for everyone By September of 1903 Nell has 3 subscribers to this
00:54:07
Which in today's people... That's a fucking lot of people, right? To so many people.
00:54:12
Yeah, like back in the old days. For a woman writer? But then, not long after she creates it, she gets bored and sells it.
00:54:21
Because that's our girl. Good for you. Right? Yeah. And then she goes back to New York City.
00:54:27
And we don't know the kind of chronology of this, but there she very quietly marries a man named Harry O'Brien.
00:54:35
And she's keeping it quiet because, once again, married with children. Girl. Your favorite TV show.
00:54:44
She basically does it all in secret because she's deathly afraid that some other gossip columnist is going to come and report
00:54:52
on the gossip columnist and her gossip. Look who's calling the kettle. I'm out. Yeah?
00:54:59
That's our new T-shirt. Get ready, everybody. God, I'm almost done. I swear to God.
00:55:09
This marriage is short-lived. Okay. Nell divorces Harry a few years later because she learns that he had another wife
00:55:17
in a different state. Man, you gotta love him. Now in her 60s, Nell heads back out west.
00:55:26
And in 1908, oh, in 1908, who wrote this? Because she really misses Colorado. A few years later, she takes a job at the Denver Times,
00:55:36
and she starts reporting on the Mexican Revolution. She goes to Mexico and spends six weeks trying to get an interview
00:55:44
with the revolutionary Pancho Villa. Holy shit. Yes. and remember she used to live in Mexico with her first three named husband and so she speaks the
00:55:54
language she works her magic and she does get a meeting with Pancho Villa and in that interview
00:56:01
she does the same shit she always does okay she she pulls no punches and she claims later that
00:56:09
at one point she gets him so mad he turns red but then she turns the charm on she wins him back
00:56:16
and basically he invites her to interview him again sometime. All right. So it all works out.
00:56:22
That's according to her. Others say she ate five men. I'm so tired of reading this.
00:56:30
The first of Nell's articles from Mexico is published in April of 1914. They're some of the most popular pieces of the Denver time has ever produced.
00:56:39
It reinvigorates her reporting career and she starts covering everything from Colorado theater
00:56:46
to the battles of World War I. Range. She's also working hard to develop a local theater scene in Denver.
00:56:54
She produces plays and musicals to varying degrees of success. You'd die to watch one of those on this very stage.
00:57:03
She's also an active member, of course, of the Denver Women's Press Club. And we got some members in the house tonight?
00:57:12
You are fucking lying. The Denver Women's Lying Club is more like it. Nell continues her very vocal advocacy for women's suffrage
00:57:24
and, of course, the fight to get women in more newsrooms. Last page. It's not until she's in her late 70s
00:57:30
that Nell starts to dial back her workload a bit. Oh, can we take a look at that last picture of Nell in her later life?
00:57:37
Oh, what happened? Why is she so crosshatched? I think it's that Harper's Bazaar illustrator that was so fucked up from finding those five bodies on the riverbank.
00:57:51
He was just like, I guess this is what she looked like. I don't know. Wow. Okay.
00:57:56
That's kind of insulting. That's what Botox is for. I mean, for real. Daxify. It's not until she's in her late 70s that Nell starts to dial back her workload.
00:58:08
But then on July 15, 1938, when she is 79 years old, she suffers a heart attack and dies.
00:58:17
The next day, the Denver Post writes about her final moments, saying, quote, a moment before passing with characteristic energy, she raises herself from the bed and said to the attending nurse,
00:58:28
I must be up and then she dies. What the fuck? Those are her last words. Mid-fucking sentence?
00:58:35
That sucks. I must be up. What does that mean? In 2011, Nell was inducted to the Denver Press Club Hall of Fame.
00:58:45
And biographer Julia Bricklin says that the honor was something. Quote, she might or might not have coveted, depending on how she felt about whomever was president of the organization at the time.
00:58:59
That sounds right. What would matter to her the most is that she paved the way for women journalists who came after her to sit proudly in their newsrooms, right?
00:59:09
Or at the helm of their own business, knowing that they had just as much to contribute to the field as any male colleague.
00:59:19
And that's the story of trailblazing Denver journalist, Nell Campbell. Good job.
00:59:32
Thank you. Good job. Amazing. Yeah. That's really something to be proud of, Denver.
00:59:38
That's very cool. Protect your pet with insurance from PetsBest. Plans start from less than a dollar a day.
00:59:46
Visit PetsBest.com. Pet insurance products offered and administered by PetsBest Insurance Services, LLC,
00:59:52
are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company or Independence American Insurance Company For terms and conditions visit www backslash policy Products are underwritten by American Pet Insurance Company Independence American Insurance Company or MS Transverse Insurance Company and administered by Pets Best Insurance Services LLC
01:00:05
$1 a day premium based on 2024 average new policyholder data for accident and illness plans, pets age 0 to 10.
01:00:11
Let's talk about modern home shopping. It's sort of become a fun side hobby, right?
01:00:16
Scrolling listings at night, dreaming about kitchens you've never seen, or backyards you haven't even stepped foot in.
01:00:22
all from the comfort of pretty much anywhere. Redfin knows a lot of people like you want to
01:00:28
own but are stuck in this browsing mode loop. That's where Redfin flips the script. With
01:00:33
listings that update within minutes and tours you can book right from the Redfin app, you can see
01:00:39
your dream home the moment it appears. Now liking a listing is easy, but actually landing it,
01:00:45
that's where Redfin comes in. Redfin has over 2,200 agents with local expertise.
01:00:50
And Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. That means they want to help you win, not just window shop.
01:00:59
Redfin is built to help you go from just looking to wait. This could actually be home.
01:01:04
So become the newest neighbor on the block. Visit Redfin.com to start finding and start owning.
01:01:10
That's Redfin.com. Hero Bread delivers the stacked sandwiches, loaded bagels, rich mac and cheese you love,
01:01:17
just with a better protein to calorie balance that may help fuel you longer. Made with high quality ingredients, every bite lands soft and satisfying with up to 19 grams of protein,
01:01:27
plus up to 32 grams of fiber per serving. Shop now at Hero.co. Code iHeart for 10% off.
01:01:34
All figures per serving. See calorie info at Hero.co. 34 to 48% fewer calories than regular products.
01:01:38
Calorie content has been reduced on average from 162 to 92 calories per serving.
01:01:41
Data accurate as of 2020-26. You know what else is something to be proud of? What?
01:01:47
The Stanley Hotel. Yes! I'm going to fucking tell you about the ghosts and the hauntings of the Stanley Hotel.
01:02:03
There are people going loose with their arms. No way! They're at a revival. You've got to wait.
01:02:09
The Stanley Hotel. Want to see a picture of it? Let's look at a picture of the Stanley Hotel.
01:02:14
Hi! Have you guys stayed there? She has glasses on. Sunglasses. We should look up their Yelp reviews right now and just see it.
01:02:27
It's like, it's nice. It is, and the rugs were, oh no. It's nice, but the ghost touched my toe.
01:02:34
Okay, so tell me if this story makes you believe in ghosts more. Okay. Or not. So I'm going to tell you.
01:02:42
So the year is, here's where we're going to start. The year is 1974, and we're in Estes Park.
01:02:50
Why not just one of you? Estes. Estes Park. Thank you. Did you do it or not? Estes Park.
01:02:58
Okay, great. Thank you. You guys don't sound sure. Let's not say it again. Let's stop talking about it.
01:03:08
It's about an hour and a half northwest of here, and a popular gateway to the Rocky Mountain National Park, you guys.
01:03:17
Okay, and so here we are in a married couple. They're both authors based in Boulder.
01:03:23
They are desperate this day to get away from their little kids for just one freaking night, you guys all know.
01:03:29
So they find a sitter and they check into a hotel. It's the fall and the hotel's about to shut down for the winter
01:03:34
and it turns out this couple were the only two guests in the whole place. I know this story.
01:03:41
Of course you do. As some of you may have already figured out, thank you, Allie, for writing that.
01:03:47
Like Karen, the authors are Stephen King and his wife, Tabitha King. Yes! And tonight's story is about the historic Stanley Hotel, one of the most haunted places in America,
01:03:59
and the inspiration for the Overlook Hotel in the novel The Shining. Amy. Hell yeah.
01:04:07
You get to do a story that involves Stephen King. I know. That's the best. I know.
01:04:12
Congratulations. And I have a funny, I have an anecdote about their marriage that makes me fucking love them.
01:04:16
Okay. The main source is used for the story is a book called The History and Haunting at the Stanley Hotel by Rebecca F. Pittman,
01:04:22
and the rest of our sources can be found in our show notes. So Stephen and Tabitha King check into room 217 at the Stanley Hotel in the fall of 1974, as I said.
01:04:31
They're the only guests in the whole place, and that night they eat at the hotel's restaurant.
01:04:36
And Stephen King says later, quote, except for our table all the chairs were up on the tables so the music is echoing down the hall
01:04:43
and i mean it was like god had put me there to hear that and see those things men
01:04:49
it's all for me if i walked into a restaurant and all the chairs were on the table i'd be like
01:04:57
they don't want us here yeah bye like go away like just give the closing crew their last 15
01:05:03
minutes a piece. Seriously, they don't want to make your fucking penny. Oh, wait, let's see.
01:05:11
You know what's weird? I did not know that he wrote that based on his own experience. I've never heard that before.
01:05:17
Well, you're going to hear it now. Okay. And as the night wears on, he can't shake that unsettling feeling.
01:05:25
He says, quote, wandering through its corridors, I thought that it seemed the perfect,
01:05:30
maybe the archetypal archetypal setting for a ghost story that night i dreamed of my three-year-old son running down
01:05:36
the corridors looking back over his shoulder eyes wide screaming that's fucking creepy
01:05:41
um i woke up with a tremendous jerk sweating all over within an inch of falling out of the
01:05:49
of bed i got up lit a cigarette yeah yeah sat in the chair looking out the window at the rockies and by the time the cigarette was done i had the bones of the book firmly set in my mind That guy That sounds great to write a book And here a photo of them
01:06:07
Yeah. I would wear her dress so hard. Oh, my God. Look at that. She's like, can we please leave this gala?
01:06:18
Stephen, you've got... Stephen! Stephen! You've got... Stephen! Stephen! He's not here, but he did text me.
01:06:27
I'm sure he texted you too. Break a leg tonight. Yeah, Stephen, he's here. He's not here physically, but he's here in spirit.
01:06:33
Yeah, as a moth. As a tiny moth. He's the moth. That moth has a big mustache. The moth has a moth mustache.
01:06:44
Here's an anecdote about their relationship. When Stephen King was writing the novel 11-22-63,
01:06:51
for some fucking reason, a big part of his process was listening to the extended...
01:06:55
Listen to this. And imagine being married to this person. The extended dance mix of Lou Vega's 1999 hit Mambo No. 5.
01:07:04
Yes! A little bit of Monica in my... Extended dance version over and over again.
01:07:13
He listened to the song so much that this fucking badass threatened to divorce him if he played it one more time.
01:07:20
That's a tough one to have on repeat. I don't know. I mean, it's the absolute...
01:07:25
Very positive and upbeat. But you just don't want to hear it that much. Now you have to read that book listening and hear it the whole time.
01:07:33
And now I'm going to be thinking about it for the rest of your story. She said one more time and I'm going to fucking leave you.
01:07:38
Which, holy shit, we love her. Okay, so if Stephen King knew about the Stanley Hotel's very long history of strange occurrences,
01:07:47
some which happened in the very room he slept in before his stay, he doesn't ever mention it.
01:07:53
So we don't know, but you've got to imagine, like, Stephen King goes into an old hotel and is like, I bet this is haunted.
01:07:59
Yeah. Right? Every time. He's like, I'll go ahead and take room 372? 372. Okay. Close.
01:08:05
In today's... In today's... Got it. So let's get into this hotel and the long and spooky history leading up to Stephen King's fitful, fateful night.
01:08:20
the stanley hotel opens on july 4th your favorite i love america 1909 it's this you know big grand hotel built in the colonial revival style just like my house
01:08:34
with the white exterior it's just it's the majestic is the word that they would use was
01:08:41
it festooned i'm sure there were bells i don't know um let's see and so it had been
01:08:49
built by a man named Freeland Oscar Stanley. Uh-oh. Three first names. What's that first name?
01:08:55
Freeland. Freeland? Nah, it doesn't qualify. Okay. He made his fortune manufacturing steam-powered
01:09:02
cars, which were known as Stanley Steamers. Oh. But it's not the same thing. That can't be.
01:09:11
I know. There's two different fucking Stanley Steamers. One of them is a carpet cleaning
01:09:15
company and wanted, you know what I mean? Like, that's weird, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's like...
01:09:21
Do you think that the carpet cleaning company was like, here's a great reference from the past that
01:09:26
we'll make? And they're also like, it kind of works with us better, so fuck you. Yeah. I don't know.
01:09:32
Steam-powered cars. You had to fill it with water and then drive it around. Steam-powered cars. Yeah.
01:09:37
I guess so. And then it would burn your face if you got too close to certain parts of it.
01:09:42
Freeland's wife Flora had overseen the design of the interior. It's just beautiful burgundies and golds, wood paneled.
01:09:50
You know, you've seen the fucking shining. You know what it looks like. Yeah, yeah.
01:09:52
It looks exactly like that. I mean, the shining wasn't filmed. It says, Ali wrote, picture the interiors of the Titanic, but on land.
01:10:03
And right side up. Not at the bottom of the fucking up. Every picture I see is upside fucking down.
01:10:09
With Moss. Sick of it. clean it up. I'm going to start an online campaign to clean the Titanic before it's raised.
01:10:20
I don't want it raised. I just want someone to go wipe that moss off. Like brought to you by Stanley Steemers.
01:10:31
Yes, we've got a new sponsor for this tour. Funnily enough, Stephen and Tabitha King,
01:10:38
the Stanleys had also been from Maine, Though they'd lived a long time outside of Boston,
01:10:43
they moved to Colorado in 1903 after Freeland comes down with tuberculosis. It's the place to be when you have tuberculosis.
01:10:50
It's the place to be if you have TB. Good job. Hey, that's a great jingle. Freeland makes a recovery.
01:11:00
He's so excited about it that he builds his luxury hotel for his equally rich and sick friends
01:11:04
to come and heal and hang out, which sounds great. so there is a tunnel carved into the hotel's foundation which is carved into bedrock which
01:11:15
at some point was intended for hotel employees because of course it was and uh you guys go down
01:11:20
there exactly no one wants to look at you have a job pretend there's nobody working here and
01:11:26
hotel workers now say that then where when they are in the basement and they pass the tunnel so
01:11:30
they sometimes hear now people saying they're whispering their names fuck no no Don't whisper my name, it's so creepy.
01:11:41
Jordan, Jordan, Karen, Karen. I like it. The hotel has 140 guest rooms, in case you're planning a wedding.
01:11:53
And then of course, there are lots of other spaces and several other buildings on the grounds.
01:11:57
Hotel staff will tell you that every last room in the hotel is haunted, which is like great.
01:12:01
Yeah. Did they put that on Travelocity? I don't know. I mean, but then you could have like a haunted wedding if you wanted to.
01:12:09
Everybody is into it. That sounds cool. Hotel staff will tell you about strange occurrences that have been reported on every last square
01:12:22
of the place, which let's fucking go. People have reported rocking chairs rocking with no one in them.
01:12:27
Just get rid of the fucking rocking chair, right? Just four on the floor. What if both chairs start rocking now?
01:12:36
Like, I'd rather have a rocking chair rock. People also reported weird lights where there shouldn't be,
01:12:41
shadows, sudden chills and shocks, sudden headaches. Which to me sounds like a gas leak.
01:12:48
They should get that checked out. Unexplained music, right? Stanley Steamer. what was that oh my god unexplained sense which sounds awful explain that scent that's my new game
01:13:06
show and in 1970 before steven king stayed there one maid reported going to a ballroom that should
01:13:15
have been empty to clean it and saw it full of ghostly figures in ball gowns and tuxedos dancing
01:13:21
Yes. Sounds like the haunted mansion. Yeah. Room 418 is said to be the hotel's most haunted room,
01:13:29
and guests who have stayed there often report rattling windows, which is like, yeah, it's wind.
01:13:35
I mean, that's happening in my hotel room right now. I literally was like, is someone behind that curtain?
01:13:42
It's just like, no, just the wind. No, it's wind. However, they also report the sound of unexplained children
01:13:49
running through the hallway outside. Ooh, children are ghost children? That was scary.
01:13:54
Any child. And the sound... And the sound of a bouncing ball. You know what a bucket...
01:14:08
You mean the sound doing? I just hear like a handball. Yeah, the big red one. Yeah, exactly.
01:14:17
So I'm not going to go into all the stories, obviously, but let's start with Room 217.
01:14:21
So here's a photo of it in 1911. Ooh. Rattan everywhere. Isn't it cool? What do you think it smells like?
01:14:34
Explain that smell. Cigarettes and mothballs, like my dress. now is that twin beds
01:14:43
or one like queen with two separate headboards I think it's two twins pushed together in a like
01:14:50
don't touch each other though way that's the cause of all this haunting some prude is like
01:14:59
how dare you also they haven't figured out yet that the key to a happy marriage is a king sized bed
01:15:05
for fuck's sake I thought the key to a happy marriage was multiple headboards. Okay, so it's the most famous.
01:15:17
It had once been part of a larger presidential suite, and many famous people have stayed there before,
01:15:22
and after the kings, including Theodore Roosevelt, your best friend, the unsinkable Molly Brown.
01:15:27
Yeah, she's in every story. She's truly in every story. That's right. So about 60 years before the kings stayed there in June of 1911,
01:15:35
and a big storm, remember those rattling windows, knocked out the electricity at the Stanley,
01:15:40
and the hotel at this point had only been open for two years, but everything ran on electricity,
01:15:46
which was like really highfalutin back then. However... What's the look of highfalutin?
01:15:51
It's the jazz age. Turn the light on, see? Let's flip a switch. But also the lamps were designed to work with electricity or gas
01:16:04
for when storms came. So during a storm, a chambermaid in her 50s named Elizabeth Wilson
01:16:10
enters room 217 to light the gas lamp because the electricity went out. Unfortunately, for some reason,
01:16:16
the gas had been on for a while, so she goes to fucking light a match. You guys know what happens next.
01:16:23
Fireball. Huge explosion, taking off a chunk of the building's facade and blowing Elizabeth backwards
01:16:29
and down through a hole that's been blasted in the floor of that fucking room. She fucking survives.
01:16:36
No. Liz, badass. Which is like, if it's going to be a ghost story, that's not how it usually goes, but okay.
01:16:46
She's haunted by that experience. She's like, I can't fucking believe that happened to me.
01:16:51
Kind of. She breaks both ankles, poor thing. But she survives, and in fact, there are a few other injuries,
01:16:58
but nobody dies in the accident. and Freeland Stanley, the hotel's owner, feels so bad for it.
01:17:04
And of course, there's no like worker's comp at the time. So he pays for all her medical bills,
01:17:09
which is like shocking at the time. Required. Yeah, no. And has her recover in one of the guest rooms
01:17:15
until she's fully healed. And she ends up having a long career at the Stanley Hotel
01:17:19
and lives into her 90s, passing away in 1951. So now she can finally own that room.
01:17:26
And interesting fun fact, She's the old lady in the bathtub from the movie, The Shining.
01:17:31
My God. Oh. That was my worst part of that movie. Yeah that was good Now she good haunts the room because she only broke two ankles so she not mad I guess Here what she does
01:17:47
If guests are messy and have left their clothes lying around, and they come back to the room, they find all their clothes flung around in different places.
01:17:55
She's like pissed and makes it worse. Which sounds like you got shit-faced last night and don't remember doing that.
01:18:00
I do that. Who threw my bra over there? My undergarments. and then they say sheets move around while they're in bed as if she's making the bed with them in it
01:18:11
mom your mom made your bed get up you know that's how they get you up oh right oh just rip the covers off you oh my god okay people also say that when you try to take a
01:18:23
picture of the room with a digital camera an unexplained purple bar appears in the viewfinder
01:18:28
which is really creepy and it happens near the love seat in the room it's not as creepy as having
01:18:33
a digital camera though so let's be honest get with it it's vintage uh karen guests who are um
01:18:42
like neat and tidy report they returned to their room and found their clothes unpacked from their
01:18:46
suitcases and put away thank you yeah but like that sounds like like a turndown service but no
01:18:53
they don't they don't have that at this hotel so no i didn't know that you were supposed to use the
01:18:58
drawers and hotel rooms. Oh my god. I've never opened. Do they even open? I mean, they do. And the only reason I know is because
01:19:04
Adrienne Colsingham uses them every... She unpacks and moves in. I'm like, we're here for 48 hours.
01:19:10
Yeah. That is a thing to know. Who are the people who live out of their suitcase
01:19:16
and who are the people who move in and unpack? It's two different types of people. Wow. And those two people meet
01:19:22
and get married and hate each other. I don't know. Where was I? unpacking okay um okay so there's rumors that this actually happened the you know cleaning up
01:19:35
the room to steve steven and tabitha king but they've never talked about it anywhere people
01:19:40
say that in the bathroom the faucets turn on and off by themselves and you'll remember that in the
01:19:44
bathroom the bathroom in the shining is a big deal um and the kubrick but the kubrick movie what
01:19:52
happen? I don't know. There's just a lot. No, I like it. Keep going. So they think it's all Elizabeth, like, turning
01:20:00
on and off the fucking shower and the thing, and she's like, ooh, running water,
01:20:04
maybe. I don't know. It sounds to me like Elizabeth has OCD, and she's like, can we just clean this up, please?
01:20:10
Can we just clean this room up? My ankles. Fuck. So then the staircase and the landing
01:20:16
at this, and landings are, of course, haunted because those things get haunted a lot.
01:20:22
people, several people report the sightings of a ghost of a 14 year old girl named Sarah,
01:20:26
who apparently worked there as a nanny at some point in history. Author of the book,
01:20:32
The History and Haunting of the Stanley Hotel, Rebecca Pittman has written books about different
01:20:36
haunted places. And she's even had her own hauntings occurred there. She says that when
01:20:41
she was looking over the stairs railing, she felt the distinct sensation of something very cold
01:20:46
pressing into her forearm like someone was holding an ice cube there. Which is actually a trick when you have anxiety is to hold an ice cube.
01:20:54
So maybe the ghost had anxiety. Ghost therapist. Yeah. Oh my God. That's so nice.
01:20:59
Sorry, Jennifer Love Hewitt coming this fall. I love it. I'd watch that. Slow motion holding a piece of ice on someone's arm.
01:21:08
And also, Rebecca says she was taken on two guided ghost tours of the hotel by a woman who goes by the name Scary Mary.
01:21:19
I bet she's fucking fun. Yeah. And claims she personally witnessed the appearance of two ghost children while on this tour.
01:21:26
On two occasions, the children pressed their hands into Scary Mary's skirt, leaving little tiny child hand imprints.
01:21:34
No, get the fuck out. And you can buy that skirt in the gift shop. Mary, like, Mary, like, did, checked it and made sure there was no, I don't know.
01:21:44
Ooh, that sounds fun. And other people report seeing a Victorian-era clothed woman on the stairs
01:21:50
and then feeling lightheaded while walking up or down the stairs, which, again, gas leak sounds like.
01:21:56
Yeah. Oh, here's a picture of a ghost at the Stanley Hotel. Oh. On the stairs. Yes, I see it.
01:22:03
That's fucking scary. I mean. I don't love that. And that's our rug from tonight.
01:22:08
I mean... I see what they see, but I don't. And I want to believe. I do. That's fucking scary.
01:22:18
It kind of looks like, you know, they have those statues you can get at HomeGoods where it's a dog butler.
01:22:26
I'm just saying it could be a dog butler. Does anyone know whether or not they decorate it from HomeGoods there?
01:22:32
That's all we're saying. It's like, you have to ask the hard questions. Yes. Right?
01:22:36
and like the pianos will play and then Flora's favorite perfume the wife of the guy who built it
01:22:45
they can smell it in the air that's an explained smell unexplained smells they got its rose at least
01:22:52
they know the source of that one most people believe that Flora Stanley is also haunting the hotel
01:23:00
and plays on the piano a lot of times and during the 1970s prior to the King's Day
01:23:05
the hotel had actually been looted several times because it had been abandoned. People drove up with
01:23:11
moving trucks and just fucking took stuff into the fucking, yeah. Jesus Christ. So they just,
01:23:18
they abandoned it One owner just was like bye I can handle this place anymore Yeah But the owner at the time had actually gone through the effort of hiding the grand piano that was Flora to protect it And so they think she plays it as an appreciation for
01:23:31
It's a great way to say thank you, having a ghost play the piano for you all night.
01:23:36
Nothing says thank you. Haunting the fucking shit out of a voice. Thanks for making me scream again, Flora.
01:23:43
Don't make the blood come out of the elevator, please. when the novel The Shining comes out in 1977
01:23:50
and when the film adaptation comes out in 1980, the Stanley enjoys a renaissance,
01:23:55
having been obviously made extremely famous. And it turns out Stephen King wasn't a huge fan
01:24:01
of Stanley Kubrick's adaptation of his book. So in 1997, he wrote his own script
01:24:06
for a miniseries that was much more faithful to the novel. Mm-hmm. And that series was shot in the actual hotel
01:24:14
because he was like, hey, you have a set. It's here. Let's do it. Did people like that series?
01:24:19
I didn't. Did anyone see it? I don't know. There's a couple. Yay! I thought it was okay.
01:24:29
And while shooting the crew of the crew of the movie in the Stanley Hotel, they stained the carpet in the lobby, and witnesses
01:24:39
claimed that a portrait of Flora Stanley flew off the wall and landed right on the stain as if she was admonishing the crew.
01:24:47
Like, people make up reasons why the things happen. Sure. Like, maybe she was just like, I want to lay on this.
01:24:53
Like, you know what I mean? I'm tired of being on the wall. What's going on down here?
01:25:00
Oh, guess what else was shot at the Stanley Hotel? What? Guess. Oh, $200,000. No, that was me guessing money.
01:25:09
Oh, I'll tell you. I shouldn't put you on the spot like that. Was it The World According to Garp?
01:25:14
No, but a good guess, it was Dumb and Dumber. Oh. Aww. Yeah. To this day, fans of The Shining in all its forms,
01:25:23
as well as amateur and professional ghost hunters like yourself, flock to the hotel to try to witness something paranormal,
01:25:29
which lets after-party, you guys, at this damn time. And a lot of people do still, I guess, put on Travelocity,
01:25:40
that they see hauntings. Yes. And also the hotel throws an annual ball where many people dress up as characters from The Shining.
01:25:48
Which happened at one of our live shows once. They dressed up as the twins. That's right.
01:25:52
We have twins at a live show. That's right. And that's the story of the haunting of the Stanley Hotel.
01:25:57
Amazing. That was great. Does that mean it's hometown time? It's hometown time. Okay.
01:26:08
This time we're going to tell the rules first. unlike we did last night. We basically set up Katie and Cassandra to fail.
01:26:15
Oh, there's Vince. It's just me for the third fucking time. I come with news. What?
01:26:22
That Baby Moth was not the only baby in the audience tonight. What? I saw a baby buying merch.
01:26:28
What? Either that or the adult the baby was with. But one of them was buying a t-shirt.
01:26:33
Oh, my God. You brought a baby. Thank you, baby. Through a cry podcast. That's right.
01:26:38
A little baby with a credit card. All right. I'm going to be right over there. Okay. Vince is going to be there.
01:26:44
Thank you. And we have presents too. Okay. So we're going to do the rules really quick.
01:26:49
We are now asking if anybody here has a hometown. We recommend that you have a hometown from Denver or Colorado.
01:26:57
We do not recommend that you do what Katie did and get slayed by the audience. It's really unpleasant for you.
01:27:07
Also, try to make it short. Don't bring notes. do your thing we believe in you what's the last one don't be drunk oh you can't be so drunk that
01:27:17
you can't tell your own story but you can be drunk yeah and we have a present for you um
01:27:22
vince and i went to a pizza place last night and they had one of those cool um vending machines for
01:27:28
belts the clothing and yeah and this one is called nostalgia kids meal toy so i don't know what's in
01:27:34
it and then there's some cookies from the okay okay all right who has who's got a hometown
01:27:39
A strong hometown. Okay. You with the light on you. Get up here. Yeah, smart. That was a good idea.
01:27:46
Yeah. If you're, yep. Thank you. Walk over. If your friend is bold enough, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:27:50
That way to Vince, right over there. Oh, we forgot. One of the other rules was don't point at strangers.
01:27:55
When people have that happen a bunch of times, where people are like, ask her. Sure.
01:27:59
So the chick who lit her, if this is bad, this is on you. No, I'm kidding. You're fine.
01:28:05
Anything can happen at the show. Isn't that the magic of it? It's too late. She picked someone already.
01:28:11
It's so sad. People just keep going like, but maybe if I wave five more times. I'm sorry. I hate doing that. It feels awful.
01:28:19
If I could pick all of you, I would. Okay, here she comes. I'm not going to listen to screaming.
01:28:27
We've got one other person that thinks we're about Bob in case you're listening.
01:28:30
Oh, okay. Great. Hi. What's her name? Christina. Christina, come over here. Come here. She has a hot dog shirt on.
01:28:37
Come over. I love it. Everybody, this is Christina. Be nice to her, please. Where are you from, Christina?
01:28:47
I'm from Colorado Springs. Great, great. We're off to a good start. What is your hometown?
01:28:53
All right, so to start off, I'm a homicide prosecutor at the DA's office. You did that you did that Yeah Fuck yeah Yeah yeah yeah Amazing You were right Good she You were right She lit it up Christina can I ask you a question
01:29:12
Yes. Are you a fucking liar right now? No! Okay, great, great. I just wanted to ask.
01:29:17
Oh my god, okay. So the story I want to tell is my first homicide trial. Fuck yes!
01:29:23
So the story is a woman named Elizabeth Kramer, Lizzie Kramer, was found murdered.
01:29:32
She was in a plastic tote box and she had been thrown off the side of Gold Camp Road,
01:29:39
if anyone's from Colorado Springs. She was laughing at the local reference. Yes, because there are a lot of bodies
01:29:45
that are found off Gold Camp Road. Oh, what? Really? Yes. Gold Camp Road, I'm covering that on the next show.
01:29:53
And so she was actually found by three teenagers who were hiking and it was all caught on a Snapchat video.
01:30:00
Oh, no. So she was found, and the suspect was obviously... Baby daddy, but close enough.
01:30:10
And so then during the investigation, we did computer searches, and he had been really smart and Googled how to get away with murder.
01:30:20
Yes? I mean, who were born us? Yes. And so he was taken to trial in 2021 and convicted of first-degree murder.
01:30:27
and that was that's what you did right yes thank you thank you one of one of my witnesses was one of the
01:30:41
DNA and serology experts and her name was Sherry Holes oh we know her and during a break I was like oh
01:30:50
she was talking about how she was from California I was like do you know Paul Holes and she goes that's my husband
01:30:55
and I so that that's what i did in the middle of court um and it was a little embarrassing because then
01:31:06
she she told her husband and then i met paul later and yeah he was the one oh you're the one
01:31:13
that embarrassed yourself in front of my wife so and anyway he is in prison for the rest of his life
01:31:19
and the Court of Appeals affirmed that conviction. Amazing. Amazing. That was a perfect hometown
01:31:29
in every way. Oh, there's cookies. Oh, yeah. Christina, everybody. Amazing. What's he saying?
01:31:45
Yeah, we're not beating them. Amazing. Wow. you guys yeah i think denver night two you fucking did it denver
01:31:53
it was such an honor to start this tour after six years in this city with you guys
01:32:02
thank you so much thank you we really showed up we fucking love it here we appreciate you guys so
01:32:10
much for coming and being here. Oh, were you cuing me? Stay sexy. Thanks, Dan Byrne. Thank you
01:32:20
all. Elvis, do you want a cookie? Ah! Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Allie Elkin.
01:32:43
Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com. And follow the show on Instagram at myfavoritemurder.
01:32:49
Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:32:53
And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix. And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons.
01:33:00
That's the best way you can support our show. Goodbye. Bye. Now on Paramount+. Subscribe now.
01:33:36
Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project. One app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales.
01:33:45
And somehow, none of them talk to each other. That's where Odoo comes in. An all-in-one business management software that brings every part of your business together.
01:33:54
From sales and accounting to inventory and marketing. All in one powerful platform.
01:33:59
No messy integrations, no bouncing between tabs. And best of all, no spreadsheets.
01:34:06
Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system.
01:34:11
Try for free today at odoo.com slash iHeartRadio. That's odoo.com slash iHeartRadio.
01:34:19
We learned how to love dogs from the dogs that loved us and waited for us to get home from school.
01:34:25
They were the dogs that raised us. We return the love with Pedigree dog food. It was good then.
01:34:32
It's better now. For 40 years, Pedigree has been bringing out the goodness in dogs.
01:34:38
Every bowl serves up 100% of the nutrition your dog needs, supporting six health essentials.
01:34:44
That's the Pedigree goodness promise. Pedigree. Good then. Better now.