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This is exactly right. Isn't some far off concept? It's already here. Next starts now.
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Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye. When a charming neurosurgeon rode into Frontier Town
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selling a persona of confidence and care, patients trusted him. He wore cowboy boots in the operating room
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and became sought after by patients. He promised to heal them. Instead, he left a trail of broken bodies.
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This is a story of greed, betrayal, and a fight for justice. Listen to Dr. Death the Cowboy wherever you get your podcasts
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or binge the entire series right now only with Audible. Goodbye. This episode is brought to you in part by Vital Farms.
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Vital Farms. Good eggs, no shortcuts. Goodbye. Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia.
00:01:55
Yes, that's right. Every Wednesday, we recap our old episodes with all new commentary, updates, and insights.
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Ooh. Yay. Today, we're recapping episode 87, which we named Hither and Yawn. This episode came out on September 21st, 2017.
00:02:12
All right. Let's listen to the intro of episode 87. Episode 87. Episode. Welcome to My Favorite Murder, a true crime podcast for people who are into facts and percentages.
00:02:31
That in itself is not a fact. That's right. That's Karen Calagara. That's Georgia Hardstark.
00:02:37
You're welcome. And we are finally back in my apartment. Yeah, this is quite an adjustment.
00:02:42
I know. I've been really looking forward to this To just be like in our element I was gonna clean up the podcast loft
00:02:49
What happened? I mean all you should do is look at it To know what happened It's like a fucking bomb went off in there
00:02:56
An Australian gift bomb? An Australian gift bomb A We Watch Wrestling fucking merch bomb
00:03:01
Oh shit There's empty fucking sparklets bottles up there I always forget that there's two podcasts
00:03:07
Being beamed out of this apartment Yeah So there's a lot going on, not just us. Yeah, and both Vince and I are the keepers of the things.
00:03:18
So it's just, you know, there's also cat barf. I'm going to be honest right now.
00:03:22
Okay, yeah, good. I welcome that honesty. I don't have a cat barf equivalent in my house at the moment.
00:03:31
Although I did open the door to a new, my dog walker went on vacation. and she told me she had a replacement but she didn't say the replacement was automatically
00:03:40
coming she just gave me the number of the person I could call oh and so like 11 in the morning
00:03:45
while I was wearing uh when I wear my black pajamas they become black with white yeah hair
00:03:52
pajamas and I was sitting there working on something and the doorbell rang and I was like
00:03:57
what could possibly be happening right now the worst feeling when the doorbell rings it's the
00:04:02
I sneak to the door quietly and look out the thing people. And then I'm like, yeah, but like I'm like front door on the sidewalk.
00:04:10
So it's whoever. And a lot of times it's people who are shilling for a church or real estate agency.
00:04:19
Hey, are you thinking about selling your house? Hey, I think you should sell this piece of shit house and get out from get out from underwater.
00:04:26
It's usually that one time it was the bug man. Did I tell you about that? when I opened the door and the guy goes,
00:04:32
hey, I just wanted to introduce myself. And then he stood back a little bit and goes,
00:04:36
the bug man. And I just shut the door. He started to say my neighbors used him to like an exterminator or something.
00:04:44
But he was really young and good looking and he had like a uniform on. And I was just like, get out of here.
00:04:49
Don't try to charm me. You're going to bug charm me? No, never. So this time was weird because
00:04:56
it was two beautiful northern European looking people with accents so I was like and George
00:05:03
immediately goes out because they have the the door open this is a boring story but the long and short of it is
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I met the dog walker that I had no intention of calling because I didn't want to
00:05:13
talk to a new person or have to make some kind of a new connection I was going to be like fine I'll do it myself
00:05:18
and then she has showed up now every day to like it is her passion to walk those dogs
00:05:24
and you can't tell her like leave me alone No, she's already they've already been in.
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They've seen the worst of the worst. It's a thing where you like know that someone's counting on the money that you're paying them.
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Yeah, I've been in that position where you're going to show up no matter what. Where I thought that I was getting this much money this week from this job that I thought I had.
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And then someone tells you you're not. And you're so broke that you're like, well, now I thought I could cover rent and I can't.
00:05:48
Like that's happened to me. And I burst into tears because I was like, you canceled on me and now I'm fucked.
00:05:53
So what you went and did something No no I never did it But it like I don I wouldn want to disappoint I wouldn want to do that to someone who like hi I here like I supposed to be And you like no actually can you take this week off
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Yeah. We're going on this tour now. It started in Australia and who knows where.
00:06:11
And who knows when. And who knows when and what and how. And why. And why. And it could be, I mean, stay tuned.
00:06:19
What we can guarantee you is an eventful night. You know what's cool about that is like I have an issue with going to any, maybe more so when I was younger, like any event alone, like just showing up anywhere alone freaked me out.
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I've seen a movie alone once, like as an experiment because I was so scared and I ran to my fucking ex-boyfriend with his girlfriend there.
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So like that's how great it was. What movie was it? It was There Will Be Blood, which is like a movie you don't want to watch alone.
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Like you need to talk to someone about it. Yeah, there's a lot. There's a lot. That was the only time I've ever gone to a movie alone.
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You could hide behind because it's like a good movie with a good director. So you could be like, oh, I just had to see this film.
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Or it could be like, I was with my friend, but they got triggered and ran out. Yeah, that's right.
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I just ran. They hate milk. And milkshakes. And bowling. And lots of things. So, yeah.
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So people are always people who we meet at the shows tell us that they came alone.
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Because it's such an event because so many people have anxiety. And they're like, and it was incredible.
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And I met awesome people. Yeah, that's true. So that to me is like the people who are scared of coming alone.
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Like you're going to be sat next to someone who you're going to be best friends with.
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It's really true. Yeah. It's just everyone. We're all. And then. Because everyone's the same, pretty much.
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Oh, my God. Same. Has the same feel of person. It's hilarious to me. And also when people tell us they're alone when they come to meet us at the meet and greet, I always go.
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There'll be somebody that's alone. And they'll be like, that girl over there. Right.
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We always like yell over. I'm like, go talk to her. and like if you wear like a shirt that's like funny that like relates to something murdery
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someone's gonna come off you like where did you get that be my best friend someone had a shirt
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on at one of the meet and greets that said the husband did it did I talk about this and I bought
00:08:05
us both I bought us both and yeah because that was the best shirt and I wore to therapy just to
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be like here's who I am in your face and then my therapist this is how fucking sweet he is he was
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like, oh, well, yeah, it's always the husband's fault. And I'm like, no, the husband murdered.
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He just didn't get. Oh, he thought it meant like fighting. Yeah. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
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And in fact, I was I bought a car this week. Oh, yeah. Yesterday, which was like exciting on a lot of levels and scary.
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And the car dealer was like a super normal dude. And we were like looking at the car and he opened the trunk and Vince joked like, which
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I love that Vince said this. Oh, you can fit a few bodies in there. And then he points to the
00:08:48
emergency latch and just goes, just make sure you disable that. Oh, my God. Whoa. It was like sold. Yes. Right. That's a good salesman. You're my guy. I bought the car from him.
00:09:00
How old is he? He definitely didn't listen to the podcast. I tweeted it and people were like,
00:09:05
he must be. No, he just was like a family man. Lots of people have good senses of humor. Yeah.
00:09:11
He was like 28 or so. That's hilarious. Yeah. I like that style. I do too. No. You're just going like you don't know if I'm going to be I've been locked in a trunk before in my life.
00:09:23
But you're just fucking picking it up. You know what it is? It's if you've been locked in a trunk before in your life, the fact that you're making the joke first means you're OK with it, which means he can do what he wants.
00:09:33
Right. And that it's actually additional relief that he would join in and not leave you hanging.
00:09:37
Right. Or go, oh, my God, what's wrong with you? Right. it's just a classic like bullshit salesman personality it's why i like people like that
00:09:45
and i hate myself for liking them because it's such an obvious like those smooth talkers are my
00:09:50
favorite yeah and they're the they're the most full of shit people who don't miss a beat right
00:09:55
they don't react how thrilling yes exactly they go along with it it's like constant high-end
00:10:01
improvising that makes you have to be smarter and quicker too but it also is like you're being heard
00:10:07
It's exhausting. It's thrilling. I cannot get a sense of time or place. Oh, because of that being back. I know that it's too long to complain about jet lag.
00:10:20
I'm still complaining about it because I'm still there. Well, it's not just jet lag. It's just that it wasn't a vacation and we were constantly busy.
00:10:27
And most people don't fly three times inside of their flight to and from home. No, no, the traveling that went on within the traveling was very intense.
00:10:41
Studying. So much. When I went to write my murder for this week, it was not enjoyable because there were so many that we had to do for Australia.
00:10:50
And so many that I researched for Australia and chose not to do for Australia. Right, me too.
00:10:54
Because they were so intense. There's some fucked up, fucked up stories from down there.
00:10:59
I have like five that are half written that I was going to do from Australia. Yeah.
00:11:04
It's almost good, though, because now it feels like, well, we only have three in Detroit and Toronto.
00:11:09
How great is that? That's a fucking walk in the park. It's no big deal. That's a cakewalk in the park.
00:11:14
There's something about Australian true crime that is very dark. It's like, oh, my God, it is.
00:11:22
For some reason, maybe this is judgment. Feels darker than regular. It feels like the only murders there are huge murders.
00:11:28
Yes. There's no like, they don't have guns. So it's not like there's drive-bys. No, it's like a guy that's got like picked up a handful of red clay and painted his face red and then hid in the bushes to intentionally kill the innocents.
00:11:43
Like it's a lot of that over and over. Or killed his family on the next level of family killing.
00:11:48
Yes. What is that? Familia side? Yeah. Yeah. I just picked the story that the best to tell in terms of you not going to fucking believe Right Right Also I dipped into like ghost stories and shit i gone when i can go directly to it which is a thing that like i know a lot of
00:12:05
mariners are like i'm a murderino have been since day one this is my jam which is great but not
00:12:10
everybody does it 24 7 and like i personally can't do it so i have yeah i definitely have like murder
00:12:16
fatigue right now because i just don't want i don't want to read about another axe that makes
00:12:21
I just don't want it. I can't get enough. I still can't get enough. Like I had to,
00:12:27
I was researching a murder and then ended up, you know, watching six others on YouTube,
00:12:34
which is like, has the most fucked up ones. And then I was like, this isn't even what you're talking about this week.
00:12:39
Stop. I have to like make myself stop watching it. Oh, I did the same thing where I kept,
00:12:43
there's all kinds of, somebody tweeted this actually, because there was a BuzzFeed list.
00:12:46
It's like 16 of the most fucked up murders you've never heard of. which as someone tweeted us and all murdering us say yeah right like yeah try me basically and they
00:12:57
were most of ones that we've all heard but i always i read those i go through and i'm like
00:13:02
of course i've heard it heard it heard it heard it heard it and i feel like now i'm at that point
00:13:06
of like it's almost like a magic the gathering level nerd murder nerd thing where i've i feel
00:13:15
like I've had my hands in it for so long that I just am like just for a little while. Like I don't want to play
00:13:21
this game anymore. Just for a little while. And maybe it's just the traveling. Before we started this podcast, I
00:13:27
would have to take long breaks from murder stuff because I would get really depressed.
00:13:32
So the only thing that's kept me from that now, which because we've been doing it nonstop, is
00:13:37
it's a job now. But I fucking would get dark and deep and depressed and scared of the world.
00:13:45
Yeah. Because it's... It's scary. It's scary. It's definitely scary. On a positive note...
00:13:50
Self-care, everybody. Stephen. Heralded and lauded all through Australia. People lost their shit.
00:13:59
He basically had a secondary meet and greet line where people would walk away from us
00:14:03
and then walk over to Stephen's meet and greet. Yeah. And... They'd be like, I have a present for Stephen.
00:14:07
Like, give it to him. I need to go give this to Stephen and have him sign this. Yeah.
00:14:11
A couple people were like, can Stephen be in this photo? And we made him do... Now Steven has a signature pose.
00:14:16
Yeah. Which is on one knee with his shin on his bis. It's like a child 90s star prom thing.
00:14:24
Yeah, it's perfect. Oh, can I shout out a fucking podcast that I've been listening to that I really love?
00:14:29
Podcast Corner. Of course. It's called The Fall Line. It's a female investigative journalist who every season is going to talk about
00:14:36
crimes in marginalized communities in Georgia. Whoa. Yeah. Because I think that's where she's from.
00:14:45
So that's kind of what she's doing. Is she kicking off with the Atlanta child killer?
00:14:48
No, she's like doing ones that we don't know about that have been like bungled. Oh, yeah.
00:14:55
So this is the 1990, the first one's the 1990 disappearance of these twin sisters, Danette and Jeanette Millbrook.
00:15:01
They were 15 year old African-American girls on their way home. Good girls. They weren't going to be the typical not runaways.
00:15:09
Yeah. Fucking disappeared. of course quote the runaways and never got looked into and so this is actually like reopening the
00:15:17
case and they're looking into it again now and it might get another one of those ones again in
00:15:21
georgia where it might get solved yeah that's amazing on this they tried to do runaways in the
00:15:26
90s fuck yeah i mean it was a poor neighborhood in georgia and you know in georgia african-american
00:15:33
community but like the girls had seizure medication and didn't have it with them like you don't run
00:15:39
away without your seizure medication you sure don't no and they were good girls and not that
00:15:44
bad girls don't also good disappear right but that's part of the when it's the disenfranchised
00:15:50
cultures that the people the larger um media or the larger interpretation is always they were
00:15:58
asking for it they deserve the assumption is they did something and they deserved it and that's why
00:16:05
it happened right and then there because i think that people think that way so they can just break
00:16:10
off from any kind of care emotional responsibility and it's like not my problem well it won't happen
00:16:16
to me or anyone i love because well this is a really good one because she um she looks into
00:16:22
all the possibilities including like a couple serial killers in the in the town one of which
00:16:27
sounds so fucking likely wow and uh it's just a real it's one of those you know female investigative
00:16:33
of journalism podcast and podcast that has a ton of fucking empathy so it's like you feel it too
00:16:39
that's great so that's the fall that sounds amazing the fall line that makes me think that um
00:16:44
our friend joe thornley i believe her last name was someone just tweeted at me she's number one
00:16:51
she's got the number one podcast right now with her podcast zealot which is about cults um she was
00:16:58
she was the hometown the end of the live sydney show which went up last week she was the hometown
00:17:02
murder, which we originally brought up because she said she can moonwalk and we knew it'd
00:17:06
be a heavy, heavy episode, like because of what we're talking about. So we were like, come up and moonwalk by the way to have a hometown.
00:17:13
And she totally did. And she was charming as fuck. And she's like, I also have a podcast called Zealot about cults.
00:17:18
And I looked at her Instagram and it was like, oh, my God, I'm number 46 on that comedy.
00:17:24
She's also it's about cults, but it's comedy, which is like so up our alley. Yeah.
00:17:28
I'm number 46 on the iTunes comedy podcast. And then I looked at him like, oh, my God, she's number three right below us.
00:17:33
And now she's number one. She's fucking number one. Girl. Girl. That's how it happened with us.
00:17:38
Fuck yeah. I messaged her on Instagram. I was like, I bet I know how you fucking feel right now.
00:17:42
You better fucking enjoy this. It's the coolest thing that's ever happened. That's so good.
00:17:47
Yeah, I'm so happy for her. Yeah, she deserves it. That's so funny. And it was purely because she sent the perfectly the concept of the tweet was you guys might not feel like talking by the time you get to the end Let me come up and moonwalk for you And just the idea of that was so hilarious She kind of imagined that we would have picked that because it not what we do
00:18:08
No, it's just like a sidebar. But it was so funny. It was so funny. And she definitely moonwalked, too.
00:18:13
I mean, that's why people are following. She moonwalked in high heels. Oh, my God.
00:18:17
It was crazy. It was great. It was great. Happy for her. Anything else? I haven't watched the confession tapes.
00:18:24
I don't want to talk about it. I get literally 40 tweets a day saying, watch it.
00:18:30
Confession. False confessions are not my thing because they stress me out so much.
00:18:34
It's so stressful. And I can't wrap my head around them, even though I understand the ins and outs.
00:18:39
It's just so hard. I get so angry and stressed out that I can't watch that. But I am watching our Jessica Biel.
00:18:47
The Sinner. The Sinner. I'm on episode three. I'm really suddenly getting into it.
00:18:51
The first episode, I was like, meh. Second. Okay. third I'm fucking there yeah that's good how about that dirty dirty Bill Pullman he's so sexy
00:19:00
oh he's dirty oh my he's a dirty little slut he's a dirty bird isn't he wants to be shamed
00:19:06
into submission I also love that woman that plays as dominatrix or girlfriend or whoever that woman
00:19:13
is yeah he just looks like a normal woman at the second I see women like that on tv I'm like oh my
00:19:20
God, there's just someone on TV. They're letting someone not emaciated be on TV.
00:19:24
Do you know what else I love about her character is that she works at a classy restaurant instead of like because she looks like she'd work at a dive bar in the on the, you know, off the drag.
00:19:34
It's like, nope, she works at a high end restaurant. It's like you're not fucking making her this character that everyone thinks she is.
00:19:40
No, she's like a self-possessed, self-actualized sex worker slash ex-girlfriend slash something else.
00:19:47
It adds to the interest of like, yeah, this is how complex human beings actually are in real life.
00:19:53
No matter what. And I think I'm I think I'm really into it. But even if I'm not, the characters are really interesting.
00:19:59
I think I'm really into it. Don't fight it. Just like it. No, I'm going to I bought the I bought the fucking season pass.
00:20:05
I'm in. I'm going to get my money's worth. It's great. Yeah, it's really it's really well acted.
00:20:09
Yeah. I am watching something because as I announced that I was just taking a light, a light axe break.
00:20:19
There's a show called Toast of London. Don't make me spit this all over the mic.
00:20:25
I'm imagining it right now. Do you like Peep Show and shows like that? Oh, I love Peep Show.
00:20:30
Oh, okay. This is Matt Berry. The bigger guy from Peep Show, right? No, no, no. He's not from Peep Show.
00:20:36
But it just it reminds me of when you sometimes when I brought watch British comedy and it's so it's so intelligently funny that it makes me it like it makes me feel like screaming as I watch it.
00:20:50
Because you don't because you have to be quiet the whole time because you're going to miss anything.
00:20:54
So you can't laugh out loud. There's no laugh track. Yes. You're just listening as hard as you can.
00:20:59
They're so dry. There's no like punch line. And it's like saying everyone wants everyone to be this funny.
00:21:05
like we're doing it here why won't you allow right people to do it there anyway it's called
00:21:10
toast of london he is like kind of a wash up actor it's so hilarious from dark places yes
00:21:17
garth merengue's that's it yes okay i love him it's like a new series and it is please go watch
00:21:24
the one we just mentioned i think you have to go online probably right i think they're all on
00:21:28
netflix fuck dark places and peep show are two of the best steven we welcome to see if garth
00:21:33
merengue's dark places is on netflix it's just excellent also there was a clip we have to stop
00:21:40
talking about this but there's a scene um from matt berry's sketch show where he goes i mean
00:21:45
going to help this girl um she's carrying a a big uh fish tank have you seen it and they're walking
00:21:53
he's like let me take that for you he's being super fake sweet to her and then she goes he's
00:21:57
like are you going off this and she finally goes like oh my boyfriend's apartment's right over and
00:22:00
He goes, fuck you, and throws it down. And it's just, someone did a super cut of all the times he does that.
00:22:05
Oh, my God. And he's just throw, kick, drop kicks a dog. The minute a girl says, a woman says, I have a boyfriend.
00:22:12
My boyfriend. My boyfriend. My boyfriend. Fuck you. It's so funny. And the fish, the fish tank had fish in it.
00:22:18
And he broke it. And they were on the ground. Yeah, he smashed it as hard as he could.
00:22:21
Listen. So good. So good. Well, go to YouTube. It's got everything. Toast of London is on Netflix.
00:22:30
And Peep Show's still on Netflix, right? And do you know the Peep Show? They're coming out with a new season.
00:22:35
Oh, my God. Yeah. They're like doing a... It's called something. Sorry, it's not Peep Show, but they're coming out with a new show.
00:22:41
Okay, good. Good. Hey, should we sit down? Yeah. Should we talk about murder? Let's do it.
00:22:48
Who the fuck is first? And what are we basing it off of? I mean... Sydney? Yeah.
00:22:54
The last show in Sydney? I'm sorry. The show at the Opera House? Oh, the Opera House show.
00:22:59
Oh, that show we did at the Opera House? Who went first that time? I believe you did.
00:23:04
Okay. Because you went last. You did the shark arm. The shark arm wasn't sitting there.
00:23:08
Then I was first at second night. So that's me. Okay. And we're back. We're back in the pod loft.
00:23:19
Pod loft days are still happening. Yeah. There's cat barf, you know. Yeah, all the stuff.
00:23:24
All the stuff that we used to talk about. What a compelling podcast. You know what I love is that going alone to our shows became a thing.
00:23:33
I love that so much. Like, I feel like we talked about a fear and then everyone knew, everyone knows it.
00:23:41
And then we like conquered it. I mean, it's the kind of fear that I think is so relatable.
00:23:46
Everyone has it. You don't want to go somewhere by yourself. And it's so easy to tell yourself all the things that could happen or the judgments.
00:23:53
And so then it's like almost creating that space where it's like trust that this would be.
00:24:00
a good space. And people keep going like, it is, you are right. It's very satisfying.
00:24:05
And I'll say like, I've gotten over that so hard that I love going places alone. I feel like
00:24:10
mysterious, like I'm Carmen Sandiego or something like that. I know. I love it. Can I give a tip on going places alone?
00:24:17
Definitely. If it's a party, and maybe this is just for me, but one of my most successful going to a party
00:24:25
alone was kind of a little bit of a Hollywood one where I was like, I really want to go to this
00:24:32
and it'll be fun. And it's kind of big. So I know I'll see people that I know there and it'll be
00:24:38
fine. But it was just that like, how do I get through that front door? And so what I did was
00:24:43
I left my purse in the car, put lipstick and like the things I wanted in the pockets of this coat
00:24:49
that I loved. That's like, it was like basically like a little swing coat. And then I just wore my
00:24:55
coat all night. So it's like I had this weird little protection on where I was like, I don't
00:25:01
have a purse where I'm like, I just came in from outside. I had weird little like exchange student
00:25:07
energy where I was like, maybe I'm leaving right now. Maybe I'm not from here. Maybe you don't know.
00:25:12
You don't know. You just can't know. You reminded me the last time I went to a party.
00:25:17
The other thing that you do, you can wait till someone else is going in by themselves.
00:25:21
I didn't do it on purpose, but I walked up to my friend's door. And this is a total fucking Hollywood brag.
00:25:26
The same time there was another single woman walking in. We met and became friends and walked in together.
00:25:32
Yes. I walked into a party with Judy Greer. Oh, my God. And it looked like I came with her.
00:25:38
And she was the fucking nicest. Oh, good. And she brought a candle as a gift, like a housewarming gift.
00:25:45
I love hearing that she was the nicest. Yes. And I brought donuts. She was lovely.
00:25:50
she's so good I know she's such a good actress and you could tell she was a little nervous too
00:25:55
walking in alone it's fucking Judy Greer well it's like when you and I went to that Megan
00:25:59
Mullally party that was like the her witch's brew party and it was all women and I had the
00:26:04
same experience with Lisa Kudrow when you were like one person away from me because you were
00:26:09
talking to somebody yeah I was just kind of standing there waiting and then she overheard
00:26:13
she goes did you just say blah blah blah I think she was like are you talking about a network and
00:26:17
And I'm like, yeah. She basically was like, tell me about it. I'm like, okay, Lisa Kudrow.
00:26:23
Lisa Kudrow and Judy Greer. Go ahead. Sounds good, everybody. Act as if. I love it.
00:26:30
All right. Tips and tricks. We did it. Rewind. Listen, we're getting it all out today.
00:26:35
Yeah, I think if you don't have stuff in your hands and you can make it so that you can keep your hands in your pockets the whole time if you want to.
00:26:41
And make it that you can slide out and Irish goodbye the entire thing at any point.
00:26:46
No one would know. And you're purely safe. I like it. All right. Oh, my God. You wore a T-shirt to therapy that said the husband did it.
00:26:54
That was my favorite shirt for the longest time. I have one that's got a kitten on it and it says filled with rage.
00:27:01
That's my favorite. I do wear my favorite TikTok sweatshirt, which is this amazing, hilarious drawing of a frog sitting down trying to touch his own toes with a cup of tea.
00:27:11
And underneath it says self-care. See? You're just like us. But that's literally like kind of a one-off.
00:27:19
There's not many. I just get too 90s self-conscious. Yes. Where I'm just like, I don't want.
00:27:23
Banties kind of a thing. Don't need anybody reading my body. Right. It's like a look at me thing.
00:27:29
Yeah. I have a banty, a fucking sang. I'm like, look at these tits, motherfucker.
00:27:34
You're like, get over here. I love strawberries. I have a strawberry shirt on right now, everyone.
00:27:38
Oh, yeah, that's right. I have many strawberry shirts. Well, it's a very 80s. Is it?
00:27:43
Oh, yeah. It was a thing in the 80s. Have you ever seen the 80s or did your sister or anybody else have the dittos, the jeans that had like little designs on the back pockets?
00:27:54
And then it was like, I got ones with cherries on the back. I got ones with blah, blah, blah on the back.
00:27:58
Strawberries were big. I think it reminds me of The Hungry, Hungry Caterpillar as well.
00:28:02
Oh, yeah. Which makes me really happy. A wonderful book. Okay. Should we get into it?
00:28:06
Yeah, I guess we should. No, I think we should describe clothing from our childhood.
00:28:13
Okay. It is time now to get into Georgia's story about Jack Gilbert Graham and Flight 629.
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00:31:03
Goodbye. All right. This is the... Sorry, I just forgot what I was doing. This is the story of Jack Gilbert Graham and Flight 629.
00:31:16
All right. So Jack Gilbert Graham, let's call him Jack, was born on... That's flight 629 now.
00:31:25
What? I was like, do I ignore that airplane flying into this place? Do we have some, like a black box that if we get blown up by an airplane right now, that they can find it?
00:31:35
Can you save that? I don't think this would survive an airplane. Upload it right now, just in case.
00:31:41
The apartment has a black box. That's all the apartments came with black boxes. Right.
00:31:45
That's the thing. That's why you came here. That vintage ship painting, that's a black box.
00:31:49
Oh, fuck yeah. Well, so Jack is born on January 23rd, 1932 in Denver, Colorado. I was going to do this for Denver, but then I'm like, I'm saving the shit out of this.
00:32:00
He's the second child of Daisy Graham and her second husband. Jack is born during the Great Depression in 1937.
00:32:09
His dad dies of pneumonia, which is a thing back in the Great Depression. it caused Daisy
00:32:15
then his mother sent him to an orphanage because of their poverty super bummer it was a thing back then
00:32:21
and sometimes they just did it like it was a pawn shop where it was like stay here for a little while
00:32:26
I'll come back and get you baby farmers weren't they called baby farmers in England
00:32:32
I didn't know that where you just kind of drop them off and they grow your baby and then you come pick them back up
00:32:37
they grow your baby poorly but a lot of times what they would do is kill them and take the money.
00:32:44
Yeah, they would take the money. Be like, sure, sure, we'll totally take care of it and get money
00:32:48
from the state or whatever. So, but then Daisy goes and married and I had to quote this because it was so good.
00:32:54
Well healed, meaning rich as fuck. Yeah. Daisy marries a rich as fuck rancher named Earl King in 1941.
00:33:03
She's now like fucking living the high life. Still doesn't get jacked from the orphanage. Oh, yeah.
00:33:08
Well, that's her old life. She wants to put all that behind her. She doesn't want to like
00:33:12
stress out rancher guy. In his mansion. He ran away several times to be with her from the orphanage,
00:33:19
but she always brought him back. And she's like, oh no, you're going to raise a...
00:33:24
Oh, that's... So he would actually get to his mother's house. And she would bring him back.
00:33:30
The mansion. That's like something an orphan would make up. She's like, my mother lives
00:33:34
nearby in a mansion. Right. And she must not just be able to come get me, so I'm going to make it easier
00:33:38
for her and go there. and then she's all no thanks nope then when jack was eight years old daisy she brought him home to
00:33:46
the ranch to celebrate christmas from the orphanage like come on home from christmas buys him a pony
00:33:52
and he's like well if you're buying me a pony i'm clearly here to stay nope once christmas was over
00:33:58
she takes him back to the fucking orphanage can you imagine living a lavish whatever week life
00:34:04
week-long life in a mansion that your mother gets to stay in. Your mother? And you get a pony.
00:34:12
There was an older half-sister but it doesn't say I wonder if she was actually living there.
00:34:19
Also, why don't they just send him to boarding school? Why does he have to be in an
00:34:22
orphanage? Sure. Yeah. So, the husband, the richest fuck husband dies and she takes
00:34:30
the money for inheritance and becomes a successful businesswoman. and still doesn't fucking get him from the orphanage.
00:34:38
I know. Are you just telling me a super sad story this week? That's it. Okay. It's just all about orphans.
00:34:43
Just take that up. Yeah. Well, don't worry. It gets worse. Okay. When he's 16, he forges papers and he joins the Coast Guard.
00:34:55
But his real age is found out and he's discharged, which is so sad where it's like he might have had a good life.
00:35:00
If they had like he he wanted to join the Coast Guard and and be part of the military.
00:35:07
And they were like 16, which back then was like 27 in terms of like being on your own.
00:35:13
You could probably drink already. I mean, but if it was still during its list is a little after the Depression, because maybe it's like no free lunches.
00:35:20
Yeah. Come back when you're 18. Yeah. You're on free lunch until. Yeah. Go get your free lunch at the orphanage.
00:35:26
Because maybe they would get in trouble for, you know, that's true. dangerous i don't know um at 19 so finally at 19 he forged for over four grand in checks
00:35:36
um to finance a road trip that got him and it ended up the forged checks got him two months
00:35:42
in a texas jail for bootlegging and running a police road block at 100 miles per hour which
00:35:47
sounds like fucking fun yes bootlegging yeah at this point he's like who gives a fuck yeah
00:35:52
i gonna go everyone in charge is crazy i gonna live my life yeah uh he extradited back to Denver His mom pays his debt and probation is granted So he then goes to the University of Denver which is hilarious
00:36:08
Like he must be kind of smart in a way. I couldn't get into the university system here in California.
00:36:15
What did our Uber driver tell us when we were in Boulder? It was the night before school started for the University of Boulder.
00:36:24
yes I think so whatever whatever the college of Boulder she's which I clearly couldn't get into
00:36:31
she said to us no he he said to us yeah well Boulder's no Boulder College is known as a pretty
00:36:39
easy to get into school insinuating that everyone there was stupid which I was just like okay I don't
00:36:45
feel so bad about going to community college and dropping out now I went to Sac State where
00:36:49
they were like, please come here. Please come and be one of the 200,000 people that go to this school. We need you
00:36:56
more than you need us. Oh my god, I love it. But we should add this, that then after our show, and we all
00:37:03
went downtown to try to find a party where people told us over and over again, don't go downtown.
00:37:09
Remember? They were like, you don't want to go down there? Because it was all college kids partying.
00:37:13
College kids just running amok in the street. All of them lovely, polite. Oh, yeah. My sister asked for directions at one point and the boy was like, practically walked them to the door of the place.
00:37:23
I'm trying to find. Yeah. Yeah. So we're not. Listen, Boulder College. I mean, I just I figure I put that out there to Colorado.
00:37:33
That's very fair of you. I wasn't going to. I mean, we can't call everybody stupid and just walk away.
00:37:39
You're right. Dude, dude, dude. OK, so attends Denver University meets his wife, Gloria.
00:37:46
Daisy, the mom, and Jack were estranged until 1954 when Jack was 22 years old. And Daisy at this point is running a successful restaurant.
00:37:55
And in May of 1955, she builds a Crown Aid. She builds Crown Aid Drive-In, which is what it was called, for him to manage.
00:38:04
She just like builds a place so he'll have a fucking job. That's the big get back.
00:38:09
That's the big sorry about the orphanage your whole life. Hey, remember when I abandoned the shit out of you forever?
00:38:13
Hey, well then how about some middle management? Yeah. How about you clean up french fry grease every night?
00:38:18
Good luck with that. And manage like roller skating waitresses who hate your guts.
00:38:23
Love mommy. Love your mommy. Fucking. But Daisy and Jack, they still had a shitty relationship.
00:38:30
They're often seen arguing. And in 1955, Daisy's restaurant, her other restaurant, has a gas explosion.
00:38:37
It causes severe damage, closes her restaurant for good. Huh. Hmm. Hmm. Hmm. The most interesting kind of explosion.
00:38:44
Right. Gas line explosion. Would I bring it up if it wasn't relevant? Probably not.
00:38:48
Probably. Probably, but maybe not. Maybe not. There's always the choice. We won't know.
00:38:53
We'll never know. There's a third choice, and we don't know it yet. Then, okay, so Daisy at this point is a 53-year-old widow.
00:39:01
53 at that point is fucking old as shit. Yeah, she's like, head for the hills, lady.
00:39:05
You're done for. You retire already, will ya? So she tells Jack, Jack's 23 at this point.
00:39:12
He's got a wife. They have a baby. He's like made good and made a family and works for his mother.
00:39:19
Like he's clearly trying to fucking play ball, make her want him still, you know?
00:39:25
And she's like, oh, by the way, the holiday is coming up. Even though you have a new baby, I'm going to go instead go to Alaska and visit your older sister.
00:39:32
Oh, my God. I hate her. It's the people close to you are the ones that can hurt you the most.
00:39:42
Oh, for sure. And they do. And why do we let them? Because you just that's life.
00:39:46
That's like it's a series of insults and injuries. Yeah. And you trying to fix yourself so that you fit into what they are want from you, even
00:39:57
though they have no fucking clue what they want from you because they're broken, too.
00:40:00
And then you realize you fix yourself for yourself and you drive through a fucking police
00:40:04
roadblock like this is my movie. In your life, you have fun. That's right. You're drinking fucking shitty bathtub gin.
00:40:13
Yes. You're having the best life. You're just going for it. Yeah. And then in Texas, of all places, which had to be fun.
00:40:21
Yes. Go watch. Everyone go watch Paper Moon. I bet that's what his life was like.
00:40:24
That movie is so amazing. Or Friday Night Lights. Oh, yeah. They weren't bootlegging in that movie.
00:40:31
They could have been. There was that one season where the brother stole copper wiring.
00:40:36
There was that one season where they had. What's it called? Prohibition. What? What did you say?
00:40:42
I just said pot. Oh. They took some pot? They took pot. That, that, that. Okay. And that, I wrote, and that, as they say, was the final fucking straw for him.
00:40:54
Yeah. And I was like, or maybe it was the pony years and years ago that was the final straw.
00:40:58
And he just like hadn't planned it yet. The straw went in and then it was, it just waited.
00:41:04
It was benign until it became malignant. Yeah. It just got heavier over the years.
00:41:08
Okay. November 1st, 1955. And Jack's like, okay, you want to go to Alaska? Great.
00:41:14
Let me take you to the airport. Oh, I'll take you to the airport to go to Alaska.
00:41:20
It's so loaded because I just was like, it's literally loaded. Oh, all right. I'm going to let you go.
00:41:28
What were you going to say? Well, just going to the airport by itself. Like the morning we were leaving for our trip, you were like, come to my house.
00:41:35
If you want to ride with us, come to my house. We're leaving at 730. And then I was just like, I am so stressed.
00:41:41
And now I'm adding another thing to be waiting for me. Yes. And I'm going to screw this up.
00:41:45
No, I'm going to be on time. I think it's better that you not that you would have done anything wrong.
00:41:49
You were there at the exact same time as us. It that thing of we were which I think we did very well with the anxiety of travel Oh my God We did We had such a good friendship trip it was so fun it was so good we had the best steven thank you for being a kitten in the in the group of like just
00:42:08
steven's here steven's there you can't get mad when steven's but it's like yeah we're i think
00:42:12
we're both aware but also it's that thing of like just travel anxiety not knowing things walking up
00:42:19
you never know what the fuck you're doing or where you're supposed to be which is great that
00:42:23
We have Vince who could not let, who could not be in charge, not be in charge if he tried.
00:42:29
Yes. And so. It's the best. Yeah. He would never, if it was up to one of us, he would lose his fucking mind.
00:42:36
Yeah. He would lose his mind. Me too. Yeah. Me too. So between Vince and then our Australian tour manager, Nick, who was a genius.
00:42:46
We love you. You're never going to listen to this podcast. He's too punk rock. Yeah.
00:42:50
He doesn't give a shit. He was so punk rock. Yeah, he was the best. He's the best.
00:42:55
I want him to always travel with us. OK, so sorry, I'm just I'm setting the table of I now have travel anxiety just hearing.
00:43:02
Travel anxiety sucks. Can you OK? Picture this. You're everyone's a little scared of flying.
00:43:07
You're anxious at the airport. Traveling is new. It's 1955. Like, oh, passenger traveling is pretty new.
00:43:14
And sitting at the in the airport before you get on your plane is a fucking like cigarette
00:43:18
machine that instead of cigarettes sells life insurance. What? For before you get on the plane.
00:43:25
Swear to fucking God, this was a thing until the 80s. So you go in there. And in this case, Jack puts in a dollar fifty and gets out a life insurance policy for his mother is about to fly to Alaska for thirty seven thousand five hundred dollars, which at that time is this time it would be almost three hundred fifty thousand dollars.
00:43:46
And it's just like, good luck. Like everyone just bought some and it was like, hope you don't die.
00:43:52
it's so perfect like it's so perfect if he has any bad intentions he didn't fucking put that
00:43:59
machine there like he's just using it like everybody else that day everyone's like it's
00:44:04
a thing of like oh better do it for good luck though you know what i mean like of course when
00:44:08
i don't do it it's gonna it's like having your numbers on roulette where it's like you always
00:44:11
do 13 yeah but like this one time it's like well what if 13 comes up so i just always put it on 13
00:44:16
same with renting a car yeah it's gonna be the time you don't get rental insurance exactly i did
00:44:22
I did that where it was like, why did you bring up rental insurance, dude? Because now I have to get it.
00:44:27
Yep. All right. OK. Right. So I think they did away with that on purpose because it's terrifying to everyone.
00:44:34
That's terrifying. It also it opens the door to people who should not be able to just buy life insurance policies
00:44:39
hither and yon. But also don't. Hither and yon. That was I got to stop on that. I've never heard that, but I know what you meant.
00:44:49
It didn't really apply to what I was saying, but. Well, hither and dither. It's like here and there.
00:44:53
No, I know. But I want to now see all those machines that they made in the 50s when they were like making,
00:44:59
like life is going to be easier because we have these machines. I have like a photo, like a drawing of like a happy family on the way to walk into it,
00:45:06
you know, because you'd walk on the tarmac. Oh, God, I bet we could find it. I bet we could find one in like American Pickers.
00:45:13
You know that show? An insurance machine? I bet they have. They must have kept them.
00:45:19
And I bet there's some that have like, it's some mechanic, airplane mechanic who they were closing down that and they he took it home because he's a hoarder.
00:45:28
And it still has the papers you would get. Oh, could you imagine? Yes. I need that for the podcast loft.
00:45:34
It's such a good idea. Yeah. You need to put that up there. Can someone please bring us that?
00:45:39
Actually, we. Yeah. OK. It's just around the same time as automats, which are the most hilarious there when cafeterias, they pretended to be automated.
00:45:48
but it was just people putting dishes into those things it's like pressing d7 it's like a hand
00:45:53
coming out and handing you the like the creamed corn or whatever just there yeah so you just have
00:45:58
a bunch of plates like one of my one of my time travel like plans is i would go to an automax i
00:46:03
love cafeterias more than anything yes a thousand percent yeah i would do the exact same thing when
00:46:08
we time travel and then we're gonna go shopping at fucking may company oh okay okay when they run
00:46:14
the things like you know that they used to run the money along wires above they would drop it down
00:46:20
so we like anyway okay but i want dresses yes you can go do that while i go look at the dresses
00:46:25
and girdles go ahead okay great um okay well here's where it gets crazy okay before okay here's what happened wait let's go back to before
00:46:38
wait no jack says to daisy that he left a surprise christmas gift in her suitcase
00:46:45
spoiler alert it wasn't a puppy i wrote that so it's kind of corny instead in daisy's large tan samsonite suitcase alongside the photo album of jack and gloria's
00:46:59
wedding that daisy was going to show to her daughter in alaska he had placed a neat bundle
00:47:04
of explosives. Oh, shit. Less than an hour after the flight took off, the United Airlines flight
00:47:11
became the first confirmed sabotage of a commercial aircraft in the United States
00:47:17
when it exploded midair. Oh, fuck. Have you not seen this Crown to Remember? No.
00:47:22
Oh, my God. It crashed into farmland and sugar beet fields near Longmont, Colorado,
00:47:29
and Daisy and the 43 other passengers and crew all died. Oh, God. The youngest passenger was 13-month-old, James Fitzpatrick II.
00:47:40
The eldest was 81-year-old Layla McClain. Five children lost both their parents in the crash.
00:47:48
Pregnant 22-year-old Carol Bynum and her husband both died. It was the worst mass murder in US history at the time and remains the worst in Colorado,
00:48:00
It was one of the largest investigations in the FBI history. Oh, my God. I know.
00:48:05
The FBI obtained. So can I really quickly, I just want to say also, and I know it's fucking sidebar nation over here, but I just finished.
00:48:14
What's weird about this, that I was planning on doing this. And then I didn't realize until today when I finished this audio book I've been listening to.
00:48:21
That is so fucking good. But it's about a plane crash, that sabotage that goes the whole story.
00:48:30
You don't find out what happened until the very end. And in my car at like two o'clock today, I found out and I almost had a pullover because I was crying.
00:48:37
Wow. So good. Was it a true story? No, no, no. It's a novel. It's called Before the Fall by Noah Hawley.
00:48:43
H-A-W-L-E-Y. Oh, spoiler alert. What did I say? You said what the ending was. What did I say?
00:48:51
You said that it was the explosion. Oh, no, it's not an explosion, though. It's just a plane crash.
00:48:58
Oh, okay, that's not... No, no, no. So the explosion isn't part of it. It's a plane crash that they have to then...
00:49:03
So I'm about to talk about how they figured out what had happened in the plane crash by putting it in the hangar.
00:49:08
So this same kind of thing happened while they had to piece together to figure out what happened in the plane crash.
00:49:13
And they do it by interviews and going back to the day of the crash and who did what and what happened.
00:49:19
And all the characters are really good. It's not an explosion. Okay, okay. That's a spoiler alert.
00:49:23
yeah i thought that's what you were i was like i don't know what i i just said the name of the book
00:49:28
it's called before the fall um and uh the audiobook is great the reader is really good
00:49:34
you know it's hard to find that name sounds familiar noah holly i bet he did something
00:49:38
really cool i feel like it's the guy that i i could be wrong but that might be the guy that does
00:49:43
that does um uh uh uh fargo now yes really yes okay coming back karen just fucking
00:49:52
Oh my God. Your memory is bananas. Is it though? Your memory? In certain ways it is.
00:50:00
Noah Hawley. Is it Hawley? It's H. Yeah. Hawley. H-A-W-L-E-Y. But he's not. He does a lot of things, but he is the reason that fucking Fargo series is so magical because
00:50:12
it's being written. It's a novelist writing a TV show. So it's like. I had no idea.
00:50:18
Well, now I'm even more proud of myself for finding this fucking book. Nice one.
00:50:22
He's got other ones here. Oh, I'm going to download all of them. Yeah. Great audiobook, which sometimes I'll be like, don't get the audiobook, read the book.
00:50:30
It's better. This was a great audiobook. And it's just weird that I'm doing this story at the same time as this because I don't cry
00:50:37
at books and movies. And I almost had to pull over because I was just like so taken aback by it.
00:50:42
I love a good author. Like someone that really does it right. I'm so happy that you put that together.
00:50:49
Okay. So the FBI obtained use of a nearby barn. They reassembled the fragments of the airplane collected from the site, and they were able to determine that the explosives were used, which is so incredible to me that a flight, a plane can blow up and crash, and they can still put it together and figure out what happened.
00:51:07
They put it together like a huge puzzle. It's incredible. It's crazy. Those people must be so smart.
00:51:15
They went. Yeah. I'm not going to say it. I'm done with that. I'm done with Boulder.
00:51:25
And then they determined which piece of luggage it had come from. Oh, fuck. Yeah.
00:51:32
Like, it went off in that piece of luggage, and they figured out what piece of luggage it came from.
00:51:37
And they figured out it was Daisy's tan, Samsonite. All right. But they so they started looking into her family and looked into Jack when they found out about his criminal past with the bootlegging shit.
00:51:51
They also determined that Daisy's restaurant had been damaged by, quote, a suspicious explosion as well.
00:51:56
And that Jack had received the insurance settlements, which is like, dude, change your ammo a little bit.
00:52:03
Yeah. You know what I mean? Don't keep exploding things. Yeah. Locals also suspected Jack of deliberate causing his new pickup truck to be stuck by to be stuck struck by a train that year for insurance money.
00:52:14
So this guy was like after insurance money and into explosions. They also found that when she died, a large part of Daisy's estate would go to Jack.
00:52:24
Oh, insurance money again. Yeah. After a few days of questioning, Jack said, OK, where do you want me to start?
00:52:30
and then in great detail he described building and planting the bomb that killed his mother and
00:52:36
43 others on flight 629 it was constructed of 25 sticks of dynamite a six volt battery two electric
00:52:43
primer caps in case one of them failed and a timer set to detonate in about 90 minutes
00:52:49
after he planted it or turned it on working in an electronic shop for just two weeks he had given
00:52:56
jack all the expertise he needed to build the bomb so this guy must have been fucking smart
00:53:00
Yeah. I then he said, I then took this. I then took the stack of dynamite with the battery and timer attached and placed it in my mother's large suitcase. Based on all that evidence found at Jack's house, he was arrested, charged with sabotage. And later that was changed to murder.
00:53:16
after the arrest some newspaper people radio station people were able to sneak cameras and recording into
00:53:27
the jail and Jack told them I loved my mother very much she meant a lot to me it's very hard for me to tell exactly how I feel
00:53:37
she left so much of herself behind which I'm like no she fucking didn't dude I mean
00:53:41
is that insensitive? it's insane of him to say Yeah, it's super bizarre. I think he must have not had our emotions, our feelings that we have.
00:53:53
I don want to call him a sociopath because people are like that not really Well it may or may not apply but he definitely was insanely like damaged and abused as a child I mean that the emotional attachments you have are broken
00:54:07
Yeah. At some point, his mother repeatedly rejected him. That's like there's some serial killers that it only happens once.
00:54:14
And they and it still doesn't mean he didn't love her. It could mean that he loved her more in a way that we don't feel love.
00:54:23
But that feels like love to someone else. Well, it's all he knew. I mean, he lived in an orphanage.
00:54:29
He had that thing of like, if you don't have emotional attachments to not just your parents, but to like a caregiver as a young child, you can't have those to anyone.
00:54:43
Or it's really hard to change that. That's right. It's sad. Yeah. But he's also a murderer and murdered a bunch of innocent people.
00:54:51
I mean, the plan of that, the coldness of the plan of revenge on his mom, but then just like total devastation on all these other people.
00:55:02
So many families. It's so it's so evil. Yeah. when asked why he had signed the confession and confessed he said that the FBI threatened to point
00:55:14
out inconsistencies and statements made by his wife Gloria but he wanted to keep her out of it
00:55:20
he just like didn't want her to have anything to do with it so he was like I'm gonna confess so
00:55:24
she doesn't you know maybe she was lying for him maybe she was covering for him he also told prison
00:55:32
doctors that he realized he said he realized that there were about 50 or 60 people carried on the
00:55:38
plane but and but the number of people to be killed made no difference to me it could have
00:55:42
been a thousand when their times come when their time comes there's nothing they can do about it
00:55:47
it's almost like he's god yeah and their time had come when really he had just decided
00:55:53
yeah yeah he's pretending that that was he was some kind of like the arbiter of fate or something
00:55:58
Right. Or just like, no, dude, you've just. Yeah. The trial resulted in Colorado becoming the first state to officially sanction the use of television cameras to broadcast criminal trials.
00:56:10
No federal statute at the time on the books that made it a crime to blow up an airplane because it was so fucking new.
00:56:17
And that led directly to federal laws criminalizing airline sabotage and the formation of the Federal Aviation Administration.
00:56:25
At the time, though, on the day of Jack's confession, they wanted to quickly prosecute Jack.
00:56:31
The simplest possible way was premeditated murder of a single victim, his mother.
00:56:36
So none of the other victims, they couldn't they didn't try him for those. Despite the number of victims, he's charged with only one kind of first degree murder.
00:56:45
He recanted his confession. But because of all the evidence, he was found guilty, attempted suicide.
00:56:52
And on May 5th, 1956, he was convicted of the death of the murder, sentenced to death, executed in the gas chamber in January of 1957.
00:57:06
And before his execution, he said about the bombing, as far as feeling remorse for these people, I don't.
00:57:12
I can't help it. Everybody pays their way and takes their chances. That's just the way it goes.
00:57:17
and about his mother's murder he said i wanted her i watched her go off for the last time when
00:57:23
she was getting on the plane i felt happier than i'd ever felt before in my life dude
00:57:29
and that's fucking our friend jack gilbert graham and flight 629 i like in those kind of quotes
00:57:36
where you can really it really almost surmises the insanity of the person where it's like
00:57:43
you are totally cut off from empathy you don't give a fuck about anybody but your revenge not
00:57:50
even in a way of like you're about to die it doesn't matter apologize to the families even
00:57:55
if you don't fucking mean it like you can't even give them some kind of no because he doesn't he
00:58:02
doesn't care he doesn't have a connection to care about those families it's impossible for us to
00:58:07
understand well and also it's but the thing i think it's interesting is like family is the
00:58:12
source of his insanity or his his damage so he doesn't care about those families because he never
00:58:18
had a family he's like go fuck your he's probably more mad that they had families he's probably
00:58:23
thinking that they feel the same way about their families as he does about his because he doesn't
00:58:26
know what it's like to feel any feelings about your family yeah only just negative or shitty or
00:58:32
like yeah shit man oh and go look him up go look at his photo he looks like if our friend matt
00:58:37
Matt Bronger was playing a yokel with a widow's peak. Oh, like Grease Becker? Yeah, our friend, comedian Matt Bronger
00:58:48
playing a role as a yokel. Nice. Yeah. Wow, that was good. Thank you. Thank you.
00:58:56
It's fun to base them on TV shows. Yeah, you're fucking right. Very hard work gets done for you.
00:59:02
Yeah. And it's just a retail. Dude, that's all I'm doing. They set it up so nice.
00:59:05
I do the opposite stupid thing where I'm like, I'm going to do this hard one. And then it's like, it's so hard that nobody's ever made a documentary about it, except for some fucking person who has like, there's so you looked on YouTube for your murder.
00:59:15
And there's just these people. And I don't want to insult other people, but I am.
00:59:21
They make these like story. They tell the story on video with pictures and things like that.
00:59:27
But it's a computer voice. Yeah. And then the murder went. It's so weird. Well, I feel like it might be a lot of there's like students.
00:59:38
It feels to me like students that have to do a presentation for a class or something.
00:59:42
Because there's oftentimes the wording is very odd, but it's almost like people are trying to sound news person.
00:59:50
Yeah. But it at that point it the automated program which I like just be any human can read the wikipedia page it doesn matter someone gonna like your voice just read it maybe they have a weird high voice maybe or a
01:00:07
strangely low voice well maybe i mean i have a fucking lisp and and what's it called auto tune
01:00:14
no what's it called when you when you have like the thing or you don't even oh you're from california
01:00:20
Yeah. I have a lisp in an auto tune. Never had a problem with either of those. One of my voice this entire time was auto tune.
01:00:29
It would be tough. It would be a rough one. That would be tough to keep it natural.
01:00:32
It would. Okay, we're back. Are there updates for this story? No updates, although we were just talking about how the awesome TV show A Crime to Remember did this story.
01:00:46
So go look that up. It was really well done. Just so you guys know, the $37,500 life insurance policy that Jack took out on his mother would be worth today $453,000 plus.
01:01:02
Which is a lot of money. And also, our episode title came from the story. Karen says that selling insurance at the airport opens the door to people who shouldn't be buying life insurance policies hither and yon.
01:01:15
Yeah. Which I'd never heard before. I don't care. I'm going to go ahead and throw some old people talking in at any chance I get.
01:01:23
I love it. Let's go see a picture after this. It's a picture. All right, let's get into Karen's fucking story about Son of Sam.
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01:04:22
Now I got to be told a story. I love going first because then I get to sit back.
01:04:25
I know, right? And be told a story. You just get to relax. I, I went, I don't know what I was doing.
01:04:32
Here's what I actually did. Okay. Let me hear your process. Would you want to go behind the scenes?
01:04:38
I do. And just go behind the music for a second? I do. Welcome. Pop-up video time.
01:04:43
I wanted to do a supernatural murder. Ooh. But that's like a made-up thing. It is.
01:04:48
Essentially. Yeah. But that's what I wanted. I just wanted to be a little bit off the planet a little bit.
01:04:53
And so I eventually found the story of a man named Carl Pruitt. And this was like in the 30s.
01:04:59
He found his wife in bed with another man. He strangles her with a rusty chain. Then he commits suicide.
01:05:04
the family has him buried far away i wrote this whole fucking thing up until i found um buried
01:05:12
far away uh and then a kid people start noticing that there are rings appearing on his gravestone
01:05:20
rings rings and concentric rings that are linked like a chain basically like a chain
01:05:26
so uh a bunch of kids are playing in the cemetery and they the boy throws a rock at the headstone
01:05:33
great place to play by the way yeah that's where the good times are he throws a rock at the headstone
01:05:39
chips it they all go to ride their bikes home he falls off his bike and the bike chain wraps around
01:05:44
his neck and strangles him to death so when the mother this is season two of stranger things
01:05:49
the mother finds out and here all the town gossip of it was because he was he desecrated the headstone of the killer of the chain killer And so she goes down with an axe to take the headstone apart
01:06:05
The next day she's found hanging in her own clothesline. Oh, my goodness. So then it basically goes on and on.
01:06:12
I'm like, this is the best. This is going to be amazing. I get to the end of the article and the person who wrote the article begins to deconstruct ghost stories in America.
01:06:21
and how this is fake. Like, Carl Pruitt never existed. This person never existed.
01:06:27
You can't find any of these people in any public record. And then I had to start over.
01:06:33
I was really mad because it was so perfect, and yet it was such a creepypasta. Like, oh, and then these people,
01:06:41
every single thing was someone strangled with a chain if they tried to touch the headstone.
01:06:45
Jesus, I don't know how you can find a murderer that gets you out of the murder world.
01:06:50
well no you can't I'm just I don't even know what I'm doing so then I went all the way in and I'm
01:06:55
doing son of Sam that was not the direction I thought was gonna happen I just fucking turn that
01:07:02
car around but you know why I'm okay you know I understand it's because he doesn't mutilate anyone
01:07:07
that's right where it's almost like he listen murder is murder and it's fucking horrible and
01:07:13
awful and son of Sam is a monster but when you don't have to talk about someone when it's for us
01:07:18
I don't mean like there's certain murders, but when we don't have to talk about women getting their boobs cut off.
01:07:24
Yes. And being raped and and savage, which I'm doing right now. It's almost like a relief.
01:07:31
It is because it still qualifies. And he's very famous and everybody knows who he is.
01:07:34
But he did. He was on a murder spree in the 70s that was so strangely distant and odd.
01:07:42
Disconnected. Just totally disconnected and yet very specific. He was like, I don't know if a lot of people know this.
01:07:48
I certainly didn't before I started reading about it. He only shot women with long, dark hair.
01:07:54
No, I didn't know that. I didn't either. He's a total fucking Ted Bundy in that style.
01:07:59
So it's just interesting. Like, it's definitely a thing where you can dip in, but you don't have to go in too far.
01:08:06
There's not even a stab, which is there? Let me stop you. Okay. You know what? Why don't you do your murder and I'll stop deconstructing it?
01:08:14
Because that's what's interesting. So he also was a product of an illicit affair.
01:08:21
And his mother gave him away right after he was born to a couple named Pearl and Nathan Berkowitz who lived in the Bronx.
01:08:31
And he was a troubled youth. Neighbors say he was a bully. He was he was an asshole.
01:08:38
He was really spoiled. He was really difficult. and he from an early age began engaging in petty larceny and arson um arson arson our friend
01:08:51
um so there's i couldn't find anything i actually looked it up specifically of like did something
01:08:57
happen to him that he never talked about yeah um but his mother died of breast cancer when he was
01:09:03
14. That's it, man. That's got to be a huge shock. Then his father remarries. He doesn't like
01:09:11
his new stepmother. So in 1971, when he's 18, he joins the army and he serves for four years. He's
01:09:18
given an honorary discharge in 1974. And while he's serving in the army, he has his first and
01:09:24
only sexual encounter with a sex worker. The result of that encounter gave him a venereal
01:09:33
disease shit and the um psychiatrists or whoever say that after that whoever word on the street
01:09:42
um was that because of that um experience specific experience he became enraged with women
01:09:51
which we know can't be true like you had that boiling down somewhere ready to burst it's not
01:09:58
like, I'm great with women. And then you're like, oh, shit, crabs. No, exactly. Right.
01:10:03
Well, yeah. And that's probably not crabs. No. Shit, crabs. I hate women. It's already
01:10:10
a problem. He's one of those people that, yeah, if you're a bully that doesn't get along
01:10:15
and isn't asshole to everybody, you're not also a lady killer. That's probably not happening.
01:10:19
Right. I just love that they can blame it on this one. Like they're blaming it on the
01:10:25
woman right you know what i mean which is just like of course it's not um also when he gets out
01:10:30
of the army he looks up his birth mother and his birth mother explains how she gave him away because
01:10:36
he was illegitimate a forensic anthropologist elliot layton described this as the primary
01:10:41
crisis of his life finding out that he was an illegitimate child that his father didn't want him
01:10:46
shattered his sense of identity. On top of that, the old VD. No crabs. He started a spate of arson fires in the early 70s
01:10:58
that he actually, well, we can talk about this later, but that was his, his first crime was arson.
01:11:05
And he would go and light these fires all over the Bronx and the surrounding area.
01:11:12
If only I knew what that, what cities that involved. Manhattan. Let's call it. No, he kept it over in the Bronx area.
01:11:20
Or in boroughs. Other boroughs. Other boroughs. And then other boroughs. Brooklyn.
01:11:24
Let's say Brooklyn. There's Queens. There's Queens, and Queens comes up quite a bit in this story.
01:11:28
Did he go to Long Island? I don't know. I doubt he would make that drive. Okay. He did become a mailman.
01:11:35
So Christmas of 1975, he stabs two women with a hunting knife on the streets of New York City.
01:11:41
But they fight back. This was Christmas Eve night. They fight back and he flees the scene.
01:11:48
They're not killed. That's his first attempt. And that's when he switches over to a 44 caliber bulldog snub nose shotgun.
01:11:57
No, none of it. Handgun. A gun. It's a .44 caliber gun that he uses for the rest of his time.
01:12:04
So July 29th, 1976, this is in Pelham Bay, the Bronx, 1.10 a.m. And Donna Loria, who's 18, and Jody Valenti, who's 19, are sitting in Jody Valenti's car
01:12:15
outside Donna Loria's apartment. And they're talking about the night they just spent at Peachtree's, which was the local disco.
01:12:23
Peachtree's. Oh, this is, if you see the movie Son of Sam, the Spike Lee movie starring John Leguizamo,
01:12:29
it's actually really hilarious and great because disco exploded like in this period of time.
01:12:36
And so, you know, around New York City, people were just at discos every night. And that lifestyle
01:12:42
was like a big deal. It's just clubbing. Yes, it was disco music. It's clubbing with polyester.
01:12:47
Oh, man. I'm so glad. I hope when we go back in time, we don't end up there. I mean, I can feather my hair. So I feel okay. You'd probably be a good disco queen.
01:12:57
I might be good, but I don't want to show my arms. And that's going to be a big problem at the disco.
01:13:05
I hate disco music and cocaine. So I feel like I'd just be sitting in the corner being like, can we go?
01:13:11
We're such opposites. I know. Can we go to a dive bar, please? Okay. So they were at Peachtree's.
01:13:18
They're sitting in the car talking about it. Jodi opens the car door to get out to walk up to her house and sees a man walking really fast toward the car.
01:13:26
that's so scary that image it's so scary a man walking fast towards you is like just punch at one in the morning at one in the morning right outside your house punch he pulls
01:13:37
a 44 caliber handgun out of a paper bag nails down and fires five times into the car donna
01:13:44
was hit in the neck and killed instantly jody valente was um hit in the thigh and then she
01:13:49
leaned on the horn and the attacker turned and walked quickly away which is also creepy yeah
01:13:55
that you don't run because you know not to run because that's suspicious yeah you just walk
01:13:59
quickly away like this isn't your business is done here okay so jody describes him as a white male in
01:14:04
his 30s with a fair complexion about 5'9 weighing 160 pounds short dark curly hair in the quote mod
01:14:10
style good for her for knowing all that like remembering all these details so um also laurie's
01:14:17
father also saw him and told the police a similar looking man was sitting in a yellow compact car
01:14:23
all night he had been cruising the area um hours before the shooting and several neighbors actually
01:14:30
saw a man in a yellow car cruising the area so um about three months later carl denaro who was 20
01:14:37
and rosemary keenan the old italian irish combination fire um 18 they were talking outside
01:14:45
keenan's house when according to keenan it felt like the car exploded so uh what had happened
01:14:52
was that car was fired on five times um denaro uh carl denaro who's in the driver's seat puts it
01:15:00
into drive and speeds away yeah and only um later do they realize he's been shot in the head oh my
01:15:06
god he ended up getting he survived holy shit he ended up having to get a plate in his head just
01:15:11
to um replace the skull the part of his skull that was blown away um they the police did not
01:15:19
attack, link this attack to the Loria Valenti attack because they were in two different precincts.
01:15:25
So they were just separate shootings. Weird, right? Crazy. But I mean, this was New York in the late 70s, so there was
01:15:33
tons of crime. Yeah, that's true. But Rosemary Keenan's father was a New York City,
01:15:39
I can't remember if it was a detective or a police officer, but basically once the daughter of
01:15:45
one of their own, they turned up the intensity on this specific investigation. And she didn't die.
01:15:53
She didn't die. Neither of them died. Okay. But they didn't have that much evidence.
01:15:58
There wasn't a lot to go on. Right. So a month later, Donna DeMassi and Joanne Lamino
01:16:04
had just walked home from a movie theater and they were talking on Joanne's front porch
01:16:07
and they see a man in army fatigues approaching them. Well, I guess it's like Vietnam, so it's not that weird.
01:16:14
I mean, not really, but here's what's weird. What did Vietnam, man? he's asking for directions
01:16:20
in a high-pitched voice before he finished it so he starts asking the question before he finishes the sentence he pulls
01:16:28
out the gun and shoots both of them Donna was shot in the neck but recovered Joanne's hit in the spine
01:16:34
and she's paralyzed a neighbor claims to have seen a blonde man running away from the scene
01:16:40
clutching a gun okay so January 30th 1977 this is at the Forest Hills Long Island Railroad Station in Queens at 2.40 in the morning. Christina Freund and her fiance,
01:16:52
John Deal, had just seen Rocky and they were about to go to a disco. It's at a dance hall
01:16:58
in Wikipedia, but I would assume that means a disco. And as they're sitting in the car,
01:17:04
three gunshots. Someone shoots into the car three times. In a panic, Deal drives away.
01:17:10
He suffered minor superficial injuries, but Christina Freund was shot. A friend was shot twice and died several hours later in the hospital.
01:17:20
Neither of them saw their attacker. So now the police make their first public acknowledgement that the Freund deal shooting was similar to the other incidents and all of the crimes could be associated.
01:17:34
Because all of the victims have been struck with 44 caliber bullets. The shootings seemed to target young women with long black hair.
01:17:41
And the police announced that they were looking for multiple suspects. Can you imagine, like, let's say that happened right now in L.A., if that was going on, I wouldn't want to leave the house.
01:17:54
Do you know that actually it wasn here but it was a little while later after a couple more of these murders when they when this the that fact of that it was women with long dark hair
01:18:07
There was a rush on women getting their hair cut really short, like Dorothy Hamill and dyed lighter.
01:18:13
And that's why that trend. I mean, like that's in New York City, all women got their hair cut and dyed.
01:18:20
and they said that there was a shortage of wigs at beauty supply stores because everyone was just
01:18:25
going batshit like in one day once they made that announcement everyone got their haircut yeah i love
01:18:31
that idea um okay so march 8th columbia college is still 1977 at 7 30 in the evening um virginia
01:18:38
vogue shirt vogue sure richian um walks home from her classes at columbia a man walks toward her and
01:18:48
when he gets close he pulls out a gun and fires into her face she put up her books to protect
01:18:54
herself but she was killed instantly um and moments later a neighbor uh one of her neighbors
01:18:59
rounds the corner he hears the gunshots and then he nearly collides with the person who just he
01:19:05
described as a short husky boy age 16 to 18 clean shaven wearing a sweater and a watch cap
01:19:12
sprinting away from the scene. And other neighbors matching that same description
01:19:21
reported a teenager loitering in the area for about an hour before the shooting.
01:19:29
In the following days, the media report, police claims that this, quote, chubby teenager was the suspect.
01:19:35
There are no direct witnesses to her murder. And she lived about a block away from where Christine Freund
01:19:40
and her fiance, John Deal, were shot. March 10th, 1977, NYPD holds a press conference
01:19:47
stating that the weapon used in Virginia Volksschirchian's, Vosker Richian's, I think is,
01:19:56
Vosker Richian's murder is also a .44 Bulldog. The same weapon used in all the other shootings.
01:20:03
And of course, this whole story, the New York Daily News and the Post go crazy on the on the daily it's just constant constantly page and what's it called fear mongering well you
01:20:17
should be afraid but i guess well i mean they were finally like justified it also went international
01:20:21
they were naming there's they name in the wikipedia article like all the um you know the vatican had
01:20:27
an article about it in the vatican newspaper or whatever um so april 17th this is a month later
01:20:33
basically in the Bronx. It's 3 a.m. and Valentina Suriani, who's 18, and Alexander Esau,
01:20:42
who's 20, are sitting in Valentina's car kissing and each one is shot twice. Suriani died instantly.
01:20:49
Esau died a few hours later in the hospital. And it says, again, it's a 44 and they were only parked
01:20:55
a few blocks away from the Loria Valenti shooting. So then at the crime scene, they find a handwritten letter.
01:21:03
and um it's from the killer and it's addressed to police captain joseph barelli um
01:21:10
and this is where the name son of sam comes from is this letter okay um so basically it reads i'll
01:21:20
do i'm just going to do pieces because it's really long it starts out i am deeply hurt by
01:21:24
you're calling me a woman hater i am not but i am a monster i am the son of sam i am a little brat
01:21:31
when father when father sam gets drunk he he he gets mean he beats his family sometimes he ties
01:21:38
me up to the back of the house other times he locks me in the garage sam loves to drink blood
01:21:43
go out and kill commands father sam behind our house some rest i don't know this at all
01:21:50
it's just fucking crazy nonsense yeah but it ends like this i want to make love to the world
01:21:59
I love people. I don't belong on earth. Return me to yahoos. To the people of Queens, I love you. And I want to wish all of you a happy Easter. May God bless you in this life and in the next. And for now, I say goodbye and good night. Police, let me haunt you with these words. I'll be back. I'll be back to be interrupted to be interpreted as bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.
01:22:26
yours in murder mr monster so i am that is i can't even yeah it's nuts um that was like even
01:22:38
scarier to them that were like oh we're not this isn't a calculated person this is a fucking lunatic
01:22:45
how are we going to track down a lunatic because you can't use logic that's right um also yeah that
01:22:51
that wasn't mailed or anything it was left at the murder scene so it's somebody that kills people
01:22:55
and then drop something intentionally. All of it is. Like to tease them. Yeah. Jesus.
01:23:02
So several psychiatrists are consulted and there's a psychological profile drawn up
01:23:08
based on this letter. And he's described as neurotic, probably suffering from paranoid schizophrenia,
01:23:13
who believes himself to be the victim of demonic possession. So May 30th, 1977. So at that time,
01:23:23
the Daily News had a columnist, is very famous man named Jimmy Breslin, who was like super famous in New York.
01:23:29
A lot of people out, not that many people outside know him, but he was like, he was
01:23:33
like one of those like tough, you know, reporters of New York that I was, you know, hard boiled.
01:23:38
He was, I would call him hard boiled. Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to call me hard boiled one day.
01:23:43
They will. They will. So the son of Sam sends Jimmy Breslin a letter. Oh shit. And on the back of the envelope he wrote the phrases blood and family darkness and death absolute depravity and just 44 With a dot in front of it so like 44 caliber And then I just read you how it starts because it just more blather but it starts
01:24:08
Hello from the gutters of NYC, which are filled with dog manure, vomit, stale wine, urine, and blood.
01:24:14
I mean, is he wrong? No, he's fucking dead on. It's summertime, so he's probably very frustrated.
01:24:19
Right. Hello from the sewers of NYC, which swallow up these delicacies when they are washed away by the sweeper trucks.
01:24:28
Hello from the cracks in the sidewalks of NYC and from all the ants that dwell in these cracks and feed in the dried blood of the dead that is settled into these cracks.
01:24:37
This is poetry. Is it? JB, I'm just dropping you a line to let you know that I appreciate your interest in those recent and horrendous .44 caliber killings.
01:24:46
I also want to tell you that I read your column daily and I find it quite informative.
01:24:50
Tell me, Jim, what will you have for July 29th? Mm hmm. Oh, see, this one, he seems smart.
01:24:59
Right. Almost as if he might be putting on an ass of some kind. OK. So the Daily News publishes this letter a week after they get it with the column from Jimmy Breslin,
01:25:14
urging the killer to surrender himself. And this article made that day's paper the highest selling edition of the Daily News ever.
01:25:23
They sold more than 1.1 million copies. Wow. Oh, and it's after that, with Jimmy Breslin's column,
01:25:33
this is when all the women get their hair cut. That's in the movie, too. Yeah. And it's hilarious.
01:25:38
I saw it when it came out, but I don't remember it much. Yeah, it's a good movie.
01:25:41
I liked it. I just remember that from Ted Bundy, too, liked it in a bunch of girls yes who had the same haircut hell yes change that fucking shit out of
01:25:48
it hey highlights everybody yeah how about a high lit bob yeah all right i also love son of a summer
01:25:55
of sam the movie because it's it's almost entirely focused on disco yeah the murders almost seem like
01:26:01
an afterthought the murders almost seem like they're powering disco you know what i mean like
01:26:07
Disco is a response to the murders. That's right. Or disco is because the murders are creating disco.
01:26:16
Listen, John Leguizamo is just a dream. Listen. Did you want to finish that? Look.
01:26:25
Okay. Look. Oh. I thought you meant... No, that's it. I interrupted you to then say nothing.
01:26:31
Okay, so now we're in June 26, 1977. This is in Bayside, Queens. Um, so yeah, it's like for people, I am from California.
01:26:42
So when we talk about all these different parts of all these different boroughs in New York,
01:26:48
Queens is a borough. Bayside is a part of Queens. Okay. Right. Right. I mean, the Bronx is a borough and then the part of the Bronx that I was talking about
01:26:56
for the Forest Hills, Long Island. It's like the Upper East Side is part of Manhattan, but it's so neighborhood.
01:27:02
Right. Yeah. Manhattan is a borough and then the Upper East Side is part of that.
01:27:06
Williamsburg is like, let's go on for an hour. Just saying. I'm going to say the wrong thing for sure here.
01:27:13
And all I can picture are the people I know who live in New York being very mad at me.
01:27:17
Well, do you think they're better than us? Also, maybe I'm doing it for attention.
01:27:21
Maybe I want you to be mad at me. Maybe I like it. All right. The morning of June 26, 1977, it's 3 a.m., Judy Placido and Sal Lupo.
01:27:31
which that I think Salupo might have been the main character in Summer of Sam. Oh, it just sounds familiar.
01:27:38
OK, but I could be making it up. No, I trust you on name recognition. This is where that all falls apart.
01:27:43
Yeah. OK, they've just left the LFS disco and they're sitting in the car and the car's hit by three gun gunshot blasts.
01:27:56
So Judy Salupo is wounded in the right forearm. Judy Placido is shot in the right temple, in the shoulder, and in the back of the neck.
01:28:04
They both survived, which is incredible. These people who are surviving these mortal up-close gun blasts is bananas.
01:28:15
It's crazy. So, Sal Lupo tells the police they had just been discussing the case of Son of Sam right before the gunshots hit.
01:28:25
okay so about a month later it's july 31st 1977 stacy moskowitz who doesn't know stacy moskowitz
01:28:35
and i mean like the second i read that name i was like i went to junior high with her
01:28:38
so stacy and her boyfriend bobby violente are taking a walk in the park late at night
01:28:44
very brave but they go back to their car when they see a man watching them oh no but then when
01:28:51
they get back into the car they were so into each other that they start making out so they don't
01:28:55
leave right away they're kissing in the car when they're hit by bullets stacy moskowitz was shot
01:29:02
once in the head bobby violente had been shot twice in the face stacy was killed while bobby
01:29:08
violente would survive but he lost most of his vision but he survived from being shot in the head
01:29:14
so these people in the fucking boroughs have some survivability for real i mean it's
01:29:21
The New York City baby. Yeah. Okay. So this is the shooting that brings out the most witnesses of any of the other Son of Sam murders.
01:29:30
There was actually a direct eyewitness. So during the shooting, 19 year old Tommy Zeno was parked three cars down or three cars in front of Bobby Violante's vehicle.
01:29:41
and moments before the shooting, Zeno caught peripheral glimpse of the shooter's approach
01:29:46
and then happened to glance in his rearview mirror just in time to see the actual shooting.
01:29:51
Oh my God. He clearly saw the perpetrator for several seconds due to a bright streetlight and the full moon and later described him as being 25 to 30 years old 5 foot 7 to 5 foot 9 inches with shaggy hair that was dark blonde or light brown
01:30:07
But he said that the shooter's hair looked like a wig. So about a minute after the shooting, a woman in her boyfriend's car on the other side of the park
01:30:15
saw a white male wearing a light colored sheep nylon wig sprinting out of the park
01:30:21
and get into a small, and he got into a small light-colored car that drove away.
01:30:26
And she said he looked just like he just robbed a bank. And she also got part of his license plate.
01:30:33
Wow. 4G-U-R or 4G-V-R. There were other witnesses, one including a woman who saw a light car
01:30:40
speed away from the park 20 seconds after the gunshots, and at least two witnesses
01:30:44
who described a yellow Volkswagen driving quickly from the neighborhood with its lights off.
01:30:51
One of a neighborhood resident hears the gunshots. Here's Bobby Violante's calls for help.
01:30:57
Glances out her apartment window to see a man walking casually away from the crime scene while everyone else was running toward the sounds of the screaming.
01:31:06
And I'm so excited right now. This is like so tense. Yes. And multiple other residents.
01:31:13
So this he was seen by tons of people that night. they witnessed a scruffy looking man with dark stringy hair and stubble driving a small yellow
01:31:21
car recklessly away from the scene he almost crashed into a car he ran a red light almost
01:31:27
crashed into a guy the guy started following him because he was so pissed that the guy almost killed
01:31:32
him but he oh he he could only he only followed him so far and then he lost him um and then later
01:31:38
found that it was son of sam okay so uh on the same night local resident cecilia davis is walking
01:31:48
her dog this is this is like the woman that brings it all together which i love cecilia she's walking
01:31:53
her dog um at the scene of the mosquets violante shooting so she sees patrol officer michael
01:32:01
Catano ticket a car, a yellow car by a fire hydrant. And then moments after the, that cop left,
01:32:08
a young man walks past her and studies her with some interest. And she feels concerned because
01:32:15
he's got a dark object in his hand. So she, she said he was wielding a dark object. She doesn't
01:32:21
know what it is. She just runs home only to hear shots fired moments later. So she calls the police.
01:32:29
she doesn't say anything for four days and then she calls the police and they start checking every
01:32:36
car that got ticketed that night in that area fucking chances man and not only did they ticket
01:32:41
it but someone saw it happen yep and then knew about the murders and someone saw what she saw
01:32:48
happen was a guy that gave her weird vibes totally and then she put all of it together where it's like
01:32:53
yeah you got away from the man that was endangering you then you stayed with it witnessed something
01:33:00
and then reported it totally love it love it love it way to go Cecilia Cecilia and her dog
01:33:05
Marty most of the dog Marty oh he made it oh I got so excited that that was actually the dog's
01:33:14
name I'm like oh no way she made it up I'm like oh sorry it's your dad's name okay so the next day
01:33:19
police investigate they go and they check Berkowitz's car. It's one of the several that got ticketed that night.
01:33:27
And they see it's parked outside his apartment building at 35 Pine Street in Yonkers.
01:33:33
And they see there's a rifle in the backseat. What? Uh-huh. Hydro rifle. Yeah, right.
01:33:39
So they search the car. They're like, that's probable cause. They search the car and they find a duffel bag
01:33:44
filled with ammunition, maps of the crime scenes, a threatening letter addressed to Inspector Timothy Dowd
01:33:50
of the Omega Task Force. So they know they probably have their man. They put it together.
01:33:55
They put in a request for a search warrant, but they know they're very concerned with going into his apartment without having it because they don't want to lose the case.
01:34:06
So they stand out. They wait outside David Berkowitz's apartment until 10 o'clock at night.
01:34:13
And when he comes out and gets into his car and he had a paper bag with him and that 44 was inside the bag.
01:34:21
Oh, my God. He gets in the car, sits down, and then Detective John Falotico approaches the driver's side and puts the gun right next to Berkowitz's temple.
01:34:33
And then Detective Sergeant William Gardella covers from the passenger side with his gun inside the car.
01:34:39
Oh, my God. And David Berkowitz is taken into custody for the son of Sam murders.
01:34:44
They say it's reported that he was very calm and very serene, almost seemed happy.
01:34:50
Wow. So when they search his apartment the next day, apartment 70, they find the walls are covered in satanic graffiti.
01:34:58
The whole apartment is a complete mess. There's liquor bottles everywhere. And they also find three stenographers notebooks where Berkowitz had meticulously recorded hundreds of arson fires that he had set.
01:35:12
Hundreds? Yes. He had been recording it since he was 21. Some sources allege that the number of arson fires he recorded was over 1,400.
01:35:22
What? Yeah. Was he recorded or set? Well, he wrote them into these notebooks. Yeah.
01:35:28
And they believe that they correspond to real fires that happened around. Oh, my God.
01:35:34
The Bronx and Queens and. Manhattan. Manhattan. Brooklyn. Don't certainly don't forget.
01:35:41
Long Island. Is Long Island a borough? I think so. what about coney island i think that's a neighborhood what and what about the island
01:35:50
where the statue of liberty lives oh you mean uh liberty island freedom island all right now people
01:35:58
are legit mad Like even they even they know he is questioned for half an hour and then immediately cops to everything and explains to the cops in great detail all of the crimes that he perpetrated.
01:36:15
And when they ask him why, he says his neighbor, Sam Carr's black lab, Harvey, was possessed by an ancient demon.
01:36:23
And Harvey made him do it because he wanted the blood of pretty young girls. What?
01:36:28
But wait, OK, so that's why he called himself son of Sam is the neighbor's name was Sam.
01:36:34
Sam Carr and Sam Carr's dog. Like it was he was. But I don't get it. So but later.
01:36:42
So, you know, I'm I've been listening to the audio book of those who fight monsters, which is the guy from the who basically started the FBI.
01:36:53
If I cap all that John E. Douglas, I think his name is. but he interviewed David Berkowitz years later when they were putting together their,
01:37:05
um, when they decided they were going to start profiling serial killers so they could get,
01:37:10
um, profiles of them, whatever. But he basically got David Berkowitz to admit that all of this shit was fake.
01:37:18
The whole thing about the dog talking to him and everything was completely, it was completely
01:37:24
made up so that he didn't seem responsible and that he could get off on the insanity plea and it
01:37:30
was purely because he was so angry at women he had never had success with women he um he was an
01:37:37
angry man he was very angry he was very like a spoiled child i think it was that thing he didn't
01:37:42
know how to handle he wasn't he wasn't his fault and didn't get it yeah and so he just wanted
01:37:49
everyone to pay for his loneliness and lack of popularity. Which seems like such a narrative of a lot of spree killers that are just like they feel
01:38:00
entitled and they're pissed off that everyone else doesn't know that they should be getting
01:38:05
everything they want. It makes me think of that boy in Santa Barbara. I was just thinking of that.
01:38:10
All those kids in Santa Barbara. Yeah. It's the exact same thing where everybody else, it's not anything that has to do with them.
01:38:17
they don't take any personal responsibility it's everybody else and everyone else has to pay
01:38:21
it's I guess narcissism and you know a lot of other fucked up shit anyway he basically
01:38:31
he is tried found guilty on June 12th 1978 he's sentenced to six life terms totaling a maximum of 365
01:38:39
years in prison they send him to Attica in 1987 he becomes a born again Christian
01:38:44
good luck with that Uh, and before his first parole hearing in 2002, he sent a letter to the governor of New York.
01:38:51
Wait, he lived that, how did I not? He's still alive. I'm sorry. He's still alive.
01:38:57
He's still alive? Yeah. How did I not know that? He was only in his 30s when he was sent to prison.
01:39:02
But I would have thought that they put him to death or something. No, it's, um, he admitted to everything so they didn't give him the death penalty.
01:39:08
Okay, go on. Jesus Christ, you just blew my mind. I know, isn't that crazy? Yeah.
01:39:13
He sent a letter to George Pataki, who was the governor of New York at the time, asking to have his parole hearing canceled.
01:39:21
He said, in all honesty, I believe I deserve to be in prison for the rest of my life.
01:39:25
I have, with God's help long ago, come to terms with my situation and I've accepted my punishment.
01:39:32
Then in 1993 he went into this weird thing where he was claiming to be responsible for satanic cult killings I think he may have gotten bored He was trying to say that he didn he wasn the only one responsible
01:39:47
for the Son of Sam murders, that there were other people and it was because of this satanic cult
01:39:51
and blah, blah, blah. And when that story came out, Jimmy Breslin himself made this statement.
01:40:00
When they talked to David Berkowitz that night, which is like the night he got arrested,
01:40:04
he recalled everything step by step by step the guy has 1000% recall and that's it he's the guy
01:40:11
and there's nothing else to look at for sure so wow heavy hitter which I always avoid because
01:40:21
it's so much research I know I miss big things and you know sorry Spike Lee I was gonna do a
01:40:28
heavy hitter this week actually or like I was gonna I was gonna do a heavy hitter this week
01:40:32
you know the thing where you're like should i do this one or should i do that one i finish this one
01:40:36
maybe i'll do this one yes and then it was just like no georgia you need more than 16 hours before
01:40:42
you decide to do a heavy hitter i mean you really do and i think my wikipedia recitation proves that
01:40:48
yeah no that was great people that shoot from a distance like there is something very
01:40:53
i mean obviously we're saying this it's just so lame it's just so cowardly yeah to like stand
01:41:00
from a distance and shoot a person and then just be like, I am the son of Sam. It's emotionally detached in a way that you don't expect from most serial killers.
01:41:08
Right. Who are just like in it for the suffering and seeing the suffering of others.
01:41:16
Yeah, he was he wanted to end lives because it was about his failures as a man. Right.
01:41:23
He could have been a mafia hitman. Yeah. If he fucking painted his apartment and got his shit together.
01:41:30
it's tough listening to dogs yeah that poor dog was like dude i fucking love everyone don't bring
01:41:36
me into this bitch all i want are treats i just want them to bring me inside every once in a while
01:41:40
that's why i'm barking why am i in the back give me a scratch behind the ear every once in a blue
01:41:44
and then don't bring me into your story i'm not satanic i am i love the idea of being possessed
01:41:50
by an ancient demon yeah not a recent demon i mean the dog maybe was an ancient demon but it
01:41:55
was also like, but I'm past that. I'm born again. Yeah. He'd gotten healthy. Yeah.
01:42:05
OK, and we're back, Karen. Any Son of Sam updates? There are a couple. So first of all,
01:42:11
David Berkowitz still is serving a life sentence in upstate New York. Then also in 2025, Netflix
01:42:16
released the three part docuseries Conversations with a Killer, the Son of Sam tapes. And that
01:42:22
featured interviews with victims' loved ones, researchers, and former law enforcement assigned
01:42:26
to the case. There's also a new interview with David Berkowitz where he emphasizes his remorse
01:42:31
and he acknowledges that he should have gotten help sooner. Wow. Yeah. I also looked it up. There
01:42:36
was a documentary called The Sons of Sam, A Descent into Darkness, and Paul Giamatti was a voice in
01:42:43
that. And it was really good. It talked a lot about the culty feeling back then and that the
01:42:50
Cropsey era, just like how there was just something going on. Yeah. Like satanic panic wise.
01:42:55
Right. That there was kind of like dark things happening and no one could put their finger on it.
01:43:00
And so it was like Satan or it's evil or it's that. Now we know it's just Epstein.
01:43:07
It was just. Yes. But also the person who made the documentary thinks there's more than one that David Berkowitz
01:43:13
didn't do it all by himself, which is who the fuck knows. Whatever. Okay. I mean, very possible.
01:43:17
Yeah It a good one All right let head back to the show where we are going to wrap it up Well shit man That that man
01:43:28
Should we say one thing that makes us happy? Oh, good idea. Is it sleeping all week?
01:43:32
Because that's mine. Oh, dude. Sleeping. There has to be something. Oh, my new car.
01:43:39
Oh, yeah, yeah. Can that be mine? This is. Yes. Okay. This is the first new car I've ever had in my life.
01:43:45
Nice. It feels so luxurious. It's a Toyota Corolla, which is my first car I ever had.
01:43:52
My first hand-me-down shitty little car that was just like the most basic you could get at the time.
01:44:01
And this one has like fucking a moonroof and a fucking an automatic, like your seat moves automatically.
01:44:07
I've never had a car. It shapes it to you as you get in. Yeah. Or it has like the when you need to move it forward.
01:44:12
It's just like you don't have to crank it, you know? You don't have to do that while you're driving and accidentally almost hit your face on the steering wheel.
01:44:19
Or crash. Right. Or crash. Yeah. It has like, it has adult things that I never thought I would ever have in my life.
01:44:27
But it's a Toyota, so it wasn't fucking crazy expensive. It has a cooch warmer, which is like, to me, the next level of fucking class.
01:44:34
You can have those all the time. You just, you don't have to wait to get into your car.
01:44:38
What do you mean? You can fucking slip something. You can do an icy hot pack right into your underwear.
01:44:44
You try to get me a yeast infection over here. It's just like it feels it feels grown up.
01:44:53
And I'm like, I didn't think I'd ever care about it. Something like this. And I'm really just like pleased and grateful.
01:45:00
It's great. It's nice. It's nice to like be like, oh, I earned something. Yeah, I earned it.
01:45:06
I think I earned it. And I'm really happy about it. Yeah, that's good. Yeah. I guess mine would be
01:45:12
so this this is Thursday so tomorrow night I am playing a show with my friends the band
01:45:20
Sure Sure at the Satellite in LA so if you live in the LA area Steven and I will be there
01:45:26
these guys are coming I think I only can only put one name on the guest I'm coming
01:45:31
okay but if you are around and want I absolutely guarantee that you will love this band
01:45:39
Sure Sure They are so fucking good. They're going to be famous. I just you played them for me.
01:45:44
And I was like, it was one of those things where this reminds me of a little of this.
01:45:47
And it was all like classic bands that you love. Yes. Really fucking good. Yeah, it's not.
01:45:52
I told them because we did a show together like four years ago. And it was just because my friend Kevin is in the band.
01:45:58
And he was like, do you want to do a show with us? And I told him after the show, I was like, I was so scared to see your band.
01:46:05
Because when do you go see a band? And you're like, that was the best thing ever.
01:46:09
It's not that often. Yeah. It's intimidating when you go see it. Not intimidating.
01:46:13
When you go see a friend who's like, come see me do this thing. You're like, all right.
01:46:15
And you're like, oh, my God, you're so talented. Yes. It's just so exciting. Yeah.
01:46:20
And people are great. And their music is just so listenable. I mean, I've already given the recommendation.
01:46:26
Yeah. And you're playing music first? And I am opening for them. Yeah. So I'm going to do a couple of my old moldy oldies.
01:46:33
You have some classic songs and you have some comedy songs too, right? Yeah. Are you going to do?
01:46:39
I don't think I have classic songs. You don't do a lot of like. Well, then you have like sad ones.
01:46:43
Classic songs like Goodbye Yellow Brick Road or something. Yeah. No, just like not outright comedy.
01:46:51
Some of my comedy songs make you sad. Exactly. Yeah. But I can still hide behind the comedy part.
01:46:56
So that's good. Yeah. I'm only going to do a handful. If I was at the show and someone did like if they I would be like get off this day I just want to see this band please I excited to see you play I excited to play because I haven done it in a while
01:47:12
I haven't seen you play since I've known you oh yeah you got it I did a show I did a show
01:47:18
when we were in Denver I got to do it for the High Plains Comedy Festival I got to go do a
01:47:25
variety show after our show which was super fun and a bunch of people that were at our show came to that show too and i thought it was going
01:47:33
to be kind of shitty because i hadn't played publicly in a really long time and it was super
01:47:38
fun so i'm super looking forward to it but more than that if you like good music i would recommend
01:47:45
being at this show i think yeah i think it's gonna i'm excited i mean steven how long was that steven
01:47:53
Stephen. Fuck. I like this episode. Yeah, that's a good one. Yeah. Okay, we're back. All right. So as Georgia said, this episode was originally titled Hither and
01:48:07
Yawn. But here are some possibilities. We were naming it today based on the episode.
01:48:11
We could call it Cakewalk in the Park from when Georgia talks about writing three stories.
01:48:17
I want to use that for something that's like got to be a book. And then we could also call
01:48:23
Call it clubbing with polyester. That's right. Love it. Hey. All right, you guys.
01:48:27
Well, thanks for listening to another episode of Rewind. And let's go back to the pod loft where we'll say goodbye.
01:48:36
Thanks for listening. I don't know. I feel like we have to sign off. Yeah. Rate, review, subscribe.
01:48:43
But it's like, well, you've already done that. Yeah, you do that so much. We appreciate that.
01:48:46
It's so nice. Thank you guys for listening. Thank you for being here with us. And stay sexy.
01:48:51
And don't get murdered. Bye. Bye. Elvis, get out of the cat box. Hey, you want a cookie?
01:48:57
Elvis, you want a cookie? Elvis. Yeah? Elvis. You want a cookie? Okay. You want a cookie?
01:49:07
All right. He's like, yeah. Bye. What do I do? I don't know. You keep asking me.
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