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Goodbye. Hello. And welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia. That's right. Every Wednesday, we recap our old episodes with all new commentary and updates and insights.
00:02:59
Today, we're recapping episode 89, which we named The Finch. This episode came out on October 5th, 2017.
00:03:06
So long ago. All right, let's listen to the intro of episode 89. Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder.
00:03:17
The podcast where you ask the questions and we don't have the answers. and why would we like we're not answer people we you know that we've said it a million times and
00:03:28
also get your own fucking answers whoops whoops and then give them to us please email them to my
00:03:35
favorite murder at gmail.com don't forget to instagram some answers yeah take a picture of
00:03:39
the answers and send them to george on instagram you guys are so smart you really are you absolutely
00:03:45
are this is a teaching podcast we teach you how smart you are by not having answers and requesting
00:03:51
them. Maybe we do have answers and we're not really telling you because we want you to learn them yourself.
00:03:55
I mean, it is. It does invite the listener in to participate. Hey, we're going to tell you this story.
00:04:01
Are we wrong? Let us know. That's this thing where when I was a kid, it was fucking pissed me off more than anything when I'd ask my mom
00:04:07
how to spell something and she'd say, look it up. We have a whole set of dictionaries or whatever
00:04:11
the fuck. Fuck you. Just spell this three letter word for me. You know what that was?
00:04:17
She didn't know how to spell it. Hello. It's a classic mom trick. mom you asshole pretend to be teaching because you don't know that's like my dad going me complaining
00:04:27
about i can't do math him going well just tell me what the problem is me being like no i don't
00:04:32
want to open this door three hours later my dad's screaming about new math screaming like trying to
00:04:38
read the book yeah from the beginning he's gonna help me let me look at the beginning of this
00:04:42
chapter hold on let me just read this forget it forget it forget it and also it's helped me in no
00:04:48
way in life. Math? No math has helped me. No. Basic algebra. All you need. And even then,
00:04:57
really, what are these concepts? It's almost like in algebra, they're trying to get you. It's like,
00:05:02
I don't have to plan the projection of a rocket ship to get from here to Mars. It's never going to happen in my life. Unless you're a rocket person.
00:05:12
Yep. A scientist they call sometimes. A rocket businessman, I think they call them. Or a woman.
00:05:17
I'm not going to be or a mathematician a rocket businessman woman like let's not
00:05:23
I'm sorry I please edit that out person person it could be any gender fluid you could sell
00:05:31
rocket ships you could ride on rocket ships and just be the accountant on the rocket ship
00:05:35
there's got to be someone who sells parts where's that guy in the alien series where's the rocket ship accountant
00:05:41
that gets eaten first I wonder if that's Paul Reiser was the irritating guy in at least
00:05:49
one of the Alien series. Was he the one who got his stomach busted open? No Although something bad did happen to him I shouldn say no because Well everyone died I know the one you thinking of which is the one where they all had to witness it Man I need to rewatch that movie
00:06:06
It's the best movie. That and Spaceballs I haven't seen in too long. Very similar.
00:06:10
Right? Similar films. It's the same kind of idea. I'm thinking of Aliens 2, though, right?
00:06:15
Paul Reiser and Steven in Aliens 2. We're getting a yes from young Steven who knows shit.
00:06:20
Science, Steven. Science. Those are some of my favorite movies. And yeah, Paul Reiser, you know, he he get you know, he has to get in the end.
00:06:26
Spoilers. Yes. Because he's the douchebag. He's the corporate douchebag that's like, hey, we're going to do this.
00:06:32
So, you know, hey, I'm going to get you to do something. Yeah. He's in charge. Can I say Sigourney Weaver from the first Aliens is my underwear muse?
00:06:40
Oh, hell yeah. Those cotton high waisted underwear that are a little loose. Yeah. The sexiest thing like that's I stopped wearing G strings when I fucking saw that as an adult.
00:06:51
I have to tell you, those underwear are only sexy if you have really long legs. If you don't, you look like someone's grandma.
00:06:59
You do. Which is a genre for some people. I don't want to kink shame anybody, God forbid.
00:07:07
But you really need to have the pigs to make those grandma underwear work. Amen.
00:07:13
And I don't. Also, if it was a realistic movie of her working on a spaceship and being all like bedraggled by being chased by aliens.
00:07:24
You know, she would have had like some razor burn. Bull bush. She would have had bush coming out of those underwear.
00:07:30
She's not waxing up in space. Listen, I'm a feminist. Do whatever you want with your bush.
00:07:34
Listen. I don't want to see it. Right. I mean, that's not your specific thing. No, that's not my kink.
00:07:40
That's not your kink. Perhaps it's someone else's. Everybody's included and everybody's supported.
00:07:47
this is a murder podcast guys are you here for true crime well that's great is this your first time
00:07:55
listening you are not at the wrong place don't leave don't leave don't go we're about to talk about murder
00:08:01
don't go don't leave us I have a specifically gruesome one today do you really it's not gruesome it's just that I've
00:08:07
been working on it anyways I have to shout out a couple things this will be quick everyone okay
00:08:13
someone named Julia or H-U-R made a fucking 8-bit video game of my favorite murder.
00:08:20
That's right. And it is... I almost started crying when I saw it. Vince was playing it.
00:08:25
Steven loves it. In the beginning, you fight doctors and nurses, evil doctors and nurses that are trying to kill you.
00:08:30
It's you and me and Elvis. And the way we kill people is Elvis attacks them. And then you have to go to the Cecil Hotel.
00:08:39
You can take elevators up to kill certain different kinds of killers. This 8-bit music.
00:08:44
It's all 8-bit, but it's incredible. And so you go, okay, this is a weird, Julia, we need you to fix this website.
00:08:50
It's J-U-K-E-L dot I-T-C-H dot I-O. I'm sorry if I actually have sent you to a, some kind of virus.
00:09:01
Underpants kink site. Right. But I don't think it is you can go play this video game.
00:09:05
I don't know what she's going to do with it, but she needs to conquer the world with it.
00:09:08
That's amazing. It's so good. Now I have to tell you, sadly, I am so old. I am from beef.
00:09:14
I predate 8-bit video games. So like, I know that that's the 90s kids. It's a big deal to them because they played them.
00:09:19
And it's the whole like Oregon Trail style shit. Oh, yeah. I played that. I'm older than that.
00:09:26
I'm older than that. So you guys didn't have computer labs in your elementary school?
00:09:32
Well, we didn't have them anyway because it was Catholic school, which is super cheap.
00:09:35
Like our scrap paper. We use paper that was the old menus from restaurants in town.
00:09:40
Are you fucking kidding me? I swear to God. That kind of sounds cool because I love menus.
00:09:44
Well, it was fun. And I, my friend Ken Mason, one of my first friends, cause I went there in sixth grade.
00:09:49
So I was new. He was also new. And he turned to me and goes, ma'am, may I take your order this morning?
00:09:53
And I was like, hi, new best friends. Hi, best person ever. Incredible. Yeah. Um, but I was going to say our, I think I've told you this already.
00:10:01
Our version of computer lab, quote unquote, was they taught us basically how to enter
00:10:08
code where they're like, they basically made a, we were working for the school where they're
00:10:14
like enter this on this line and this on this line and we were just doing they're like having
00:10:19
you do their books yeah it was like data entry where they're like put in oh one oh one oh one
00:10:23
all the way across yeah it was ridiculous we had no idea what it was how it applied to the
00:10:29
computers it doesn't yeah it's like that not necessary unless you're a rocket business math
00:10:36
are extraneous bullshit you don't need to be taught listen i know email look i know some things
00:10:41
I know how to blog. No, a couple things. I could write about myself for hours. Should I mention, first we should say thank you so much.
00:10:51
We went to Detroit and Toronto last weekend. Fucking nicest crowds. Incredible crowds.
00:10:58
Incredible shows. We had the best time. I didn't tweet anything about it because on my way home I was like, oh no, it's too late.
00:11:05
I didn't want to do a like, I didn't want to do everybody at once. But they were such good shows.
00:11:11
And at the Toronto show, this is my favorite part. And when I told my sister, she started crying.
00:11:16
There was a woman, there was people who were holding up signs in the audience. It was really funny.
00:11:21
But of course, I don't have my glasses on. So I didn't, I just saw that there were like squares.
00:11:24
I need to remember that and point shit out to you. Yeah. Because like, I forget, I think that you're not pointing it out because you don't want to.
00:11:30
But like, remember when the two girls dressed as the shining twins in the front row?
00:11:34
Like if I hadn't fucking pointed that out to you, I would have cried. I was like, that's embarrassing.
00:11:38
Those two girls wore the same outfit. and they're sitting next to each other. But there was a girl, I told my sister this story,
00:11:46
there was a girl that we met afterwards who was holding up a sign that said, MFM saves lives.
00:11:51
Yeah. And when I told my sister she burst into tears I just like but the best part about it was so that a brag brag as we do But when we met her um at the meet and greet afterwards she goes I thought everyone was
00:12:06
going to have a sign. And I was like, this isn't a March. You're at a live show.
00:12:10
She, she, for some reason had it in her head that everybody was going to have a sign to
00:12:15
hold up at the show. It was, she was so nice. It was the cutest thing in the world.
00:12:19
It was really fun. It was a big, I remember walking out and seeing it was a really big sign.
00:12:22
and I was like, oh, the people behind her are so pissed off. That's like a thing.
00:12:26
Not like, oh my God, how nice. I was like, oh, fuck. No, it was really sweet. It was hilarious.
00:12:30
It was great. And God, we're just so fucking lucky. We're so lucky. The best people.
00:12:35
I know. It's so fun. So thank you, Detroit. Thank you, Toronto. I was going insane trying to enter Mindhunters,
00:12:42
the new David Fincher series, into my DVR. I was doing it. I'm like, every time I would do it, it wouldn't accept it.
00:12:49
I'm like, what the fuck? I'm too late. I'm too early. I'm too early. Well, now I know for a fact it's starting, I believe, on October 13th.
00:12:56
I cannot wait. I cannot wait. Finally, I put it together. I had to look it up online.
00:13:01
It's a Netflix series. There's nothing to program in my DVR. It was making means because I'm like, I'm going to miss it.
00:13:08
And so anyone else who might be having that experience, it's a Netflix series that you
00:13:12
can't pre-plan. It's going to be so good. We're going to talk about it. We're going to have an extra mini-show just to talk about it.
00:13:19
Yes, please. Watch it together. Yes. and then have a whole talk down. It's distracting me. There's lots of people
00:13:25
that I love sending me suggestions constantly and you on Twitter of have you seen this? Have you seen that?
00:13:31
I felt bad the other night when I was like, watch this thing. You have to. And then I was like,
00:13:35
texted back. I'm sorry, you don't have to do anything. We're very careful. We're trying to be very
00:13:41
careful. Very careful with each other's triggers. Our therapist said we're perfect
00:13:45
together because we're the exact triggers for each other. Yes. Which I love. I think we're
00:13:51
each other's sisters. Yes. Personalities. Yes. You're my sister and I'm your sister. You're not,
00:13:57
you're not my sister, but she's too fucking cool for me. No, no. I love her. Um, she's,
00:14:04
she is the greatest. Um, no weird. It's just, it's almost like everything that I've ever worried
00:14:11
about myself. I see in you and then I get mad at you that I was like that. Yeah. It's like that
00:14:18
crazy and i get scared of i just i always make friends with these women who have big personalities
00:14:27
and i get intimidated and i get intimidated easily and i don't act like myself which they see and
00:14:35
isn't fun and then i change and get controlling and shit and weird yeah because it uh it makes
00:14:41
sense to me though when you have because i also make friends with people with big personalities
00:14:45
and you, your compliment. I fucking love bad-ass women and I want to be friends with them.
00:14:50
But you have to also have boundaries and you have to be able to hold your own shit and like,
00:14:55
no, like I have a big personality, but I also absolutely want to know what you want. Like,
00:15:01
it's hard to manage that sometimes because I come from a family of screaming Irish people
00:15:06
that are like terrified of screaming. That's standard talking. And I'm like, she hates me.
00:15:12
What did I do? I need to fix this. I'm going to be really nice to her. And then you're just like, she's annoying the shit out of me.
00:15:17
Then I'm like, what's that tone in her voice? I think she might be snapping. Yeah.
00:15:20
It's, we're great. Guys, we're working. Look at us. Therapy is, my God. Can you imagine life without therapy?
00:15:27
It would be bad. I go to three therapists a week and it's, and I'm still not fixed.
00:15:31
I go to two. We'll never be fixed. No. There's no fixing. We're not cats. It's just, right.
00:15:38
We're just, you're just always working on it. It's just our project. and we have this project be honest the best thing when we after the shows when we meet people is when
00:15:47
they say i go i went to therapy because you guys were so open about it to me that's like
00:15:51
therapy is my fucking so important my jam and like if we can do that then i don't give a shit
00:15:58
anything else exactly it it's such a it's such a weird side effect that we had no idea
00:16:04
was going to happen and people have told on all of those shows we had people at those meet and
00:16:09
greats saying I went back or I went for the first time or whatever it is. We're so grateful.
00:16:15
There was one girl who was like, my therapist made me come tonight. Yes, that's right.
00:16:19
She came alone. She was like, my therapist told me I have to come. Yeah. All right.
00:16:23
Then we get obsessed with like, did you meet those girls over there? They're really nice.
00:16:26
Like we want the, we want a friend match. Yeah. I love it. Anyhow, David Fincher, Netflix, Mindhunters.
00:16:35
I cannot wait. It's based on early FBI serial killing profiling and how serial killers, like, it's just about
00:16:44
all that. It's everything we love. And Finch, the Finch. Finch is so good. With these beautiful shots of, like, a 70s green Nova.
00:16:53
Remember Zodiac and how gorgeous it was? This is going to be a Netflix thing. Yeah.
00:16:57
It's going to be a weekly series of beautiful shots. Fuck, fuck, fuck. I'm so excited.
00:17:00
Okay. Anything else? I think whatever else there is that is dominating my mind. The Fincher thing?
00:17:09
Yeah. Okay. Who goes for us this week? Me? Yeah, for going by Toronto. I don't even know what we go by anymore, but I'll take it.
00:17:17
No, that's what we go by. Okay. Just the shows we do. Whoever went. Yeah. Yeah, okay.
00:17:22
Cool. We do it by our own personal calendar. It's like the Jewish calendar, but it's my favorite murder calendar.
00:17:28
Mm-hmm. All right. We're as old as the Jewish calendar. We really are. And historic.
00:17:37
And we are back. And that 8-bit game is still up and running. Isn't that crazy? I mean, legendary.
00:17:43
You can play this game if you'd like to. We'll put a link to it somewhere. I think this episode is really funny.
00:17:49
It's like a classic example of what this show is. Totally. It like the things we talk about are completely typical It the same shit for 10 years It hilarious Well right off the bat it this is a show where we ask questions and they don get answers And that still correct We talk about underwear style We talk like it something that
00:18:10
I feel like when someone's like, we don't like true crime podcasts. It's like it's not that
00:18:15
though sometimes. It's not. It's not really anything. It fits no cookie cutter. No, there's no cookie mold cutter.
00:18:25
We don't allow cookies here. We never have. Wait, wait, how cookie though? Except for your dog.
00:18:31
We're literally, and giving one to my cat every episode. So we've always allowed.
00:18:35
Oh, right. Actually, that's a recurring, a very important recurring theme in this show.
00:18:39
It's literally in every episode. Okay, so we're talking about the Fincher, your favorite.
00:18:44
That's right. I thought I was being cool making up a nickname for David Fincher.
00:18:48
Because sometimes if you already have your nickname ready, when you meet that person in life.
00:18:52
It's like, well, we're friends because we're already doing it. Did you know? So he made the Hollywood,
00:18:56
black and white Hollywood drama M-A-N-K. Do you know that that is Josh Mankowicz's dad
00:19:02
that he's talking about? Yes. Like what the, what a full circle, random ass thing.
00:19:08
Josh Mankowicz is like old blue blood Hollywood in a way that's like, Hail Caesar, you saw that movie, right?
00:19:15
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's basically, I think, I could be wrong, But I think Josh Mankiewicz's father was what Josh Brolin was doing in that movie.
00:19:25
Like a studio fixer type of guy. I mean, it's so cool and legendary and not in the gross like Nepo baby way they are always talking about these days.
00:19:34
It's just like, oh, you have clout. And then you're going to use it to do something awesome with your life as well.
00:19:40
Great. Love that. Both his father and him. It's crazy. Yeah. Love that. Very cool.
00:19:46
What a family. Should we get into it? This is like one of my top cases, one of the cases that I hate that I could just read about over and over.
00:19:55
And it's totally solved, but there's still so much haunting me about it. I think all of us, it's so haunting.
00:20:04
It's utterly depraved and just like a horror movie. This is Georgia's story covering the Candyman, Dean Corll.
00:20:11
While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.
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The future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age 14. Making plays that end up on everyone's feed, scoring from angles that don't make sense,
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rewriting record books that barely had time to gather dust. Because Next doesn't wait for an invitation, and Hyundai doesn't either.
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Hyundai has always moved the future within reach. Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle.
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Hyundai did it by engineering EVs with ultra fast charging capability. And Hyundai continues doing it every day.
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From robotics that change how people live to young athletes changing the game, the future isn't some far off concept.
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It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye.
00:21:00
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When you're young, you don't really buy furniture. You either inherit something from your parents or you just drag something in from the street
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Goodbye. Are you ready for Dean Corll, the Candyman? I went there. You went there?
00:24:45
I went there. Shit. I went there. Big shout out right now to the Texas Monthly article, The Lost Boys by Skip Hollingsworth,
00:24:53
who I feel like we reference a lot. He writes incredible murder articles. Skip Hollingsworth?
00:24:58
Holland. Hollinsworth. Awesome. It's called The Lost Boys. It's got a lot. I feel like he wrote one that I did
00:25:05
that was from Texas. He's been on our he's been on the show before. Okay, that's
00:25:09
awesome. And then also I want to shout out Marcus Parks from last podcast on the left
00:25:16
for all the research. They did like a four-part episode that's like got a lot of details that this doesn't have.
00:25:21
It's because I'm not going to do four parts of this. No. It's so their version of it
00:25:27
was such a deep dive, but also so upsetting. There were things in that that I'd seen that story
00:25:33
before on whatever, forensic files types of things. He went into a deep dive of all these books. There's not a lot
00:25:41
of documentaries. There's just some videos on YouTube and shit, but there's not a lot of stuff.
00:25:47
Yeah, this is an epic one. Okay, can't wait. I love it. And just, we love you Marcus Parks. Yeah, thank you Marcus Parks.
00:25:53
You're a genius. You're a mastermind. Yeah, he's a murder savant. He's just so good at researching.
00:26:01
He is. I wish. I wish. I wish. I wish. I wish. Okay. Just give us all your old notes, Margaret.
00:26:08
It's like he's our brother and he already took the class. Yeah. I'm like, can I copy?
00:26:11
Please just give it to us and we'll read your thing. Yeah, and then we'll do our own, I swear.
00:26:15
We'll do a boring version of your podcast. We promise. We're not going to have Henry Sobrowski talking in the background, so it's not going to be the same.
00:26:26
We'll be the quiet girl version. Okay, here we go. This is the Candyman, Dean Corll.
00:26:30
All right. On the evening of August 7th, it's 1973, Wayne Henley, he's a 17-year-old wiry kid, acne,
00:26:38
thick brown hair. He's kind of like, looks like a Brooklyn hipster. He invites his 19-year-old friend, Timothy Curley, to a party at his friend, Dean Corll's
00:26:46
house in Pasadena, Texas. It's a suburb of Houston. And they bring along Henley's 15-year-old friend, Rhonda Williams.
00:26:54
she had been beaten by her drunk father that night and so he was like he took her out of the home for the time being
00:27:00
I was like you can crash at my friend Dean Coral's house Dean Coral is 33 and he kindly tells them
00:27:08
he's a chill dude he lets people crash at his house at parties with them 33 year old guy who wants to party with teenagers
00:27:14
yep a red flag seven red flags a hundred what? I started singing a lot on this podcast
00:27:23
You've got to. I know. Sometimes that's the only way to get real crazy shit out.
00:27:27
Okay. They get there around 3 a.m. They drink. They smoke. They sniff paint. They pass the fuck out.
00:27:33
What? Sorry. You know, it's the 70s. You sniff paint. God, it's so... That is the bleakest, like...
00:27:42
It's that thing of, like, when you scrape your pipes and you're just trying to get, like,
00:27:46
you smoke old resin or whatever. Yeah. Sniffing paint is, like, 10 steps below that.
00:27:52
Well, because I bet the 70s weed is fucking terrible. Sure. And they're fucking high school kids.
00:27:58
Have you seen? There's an amazing mugshot of a guy and it just has a ring of a paint can outline around his face.
00:28:07
It's gold, isn't it? Gold pink ring. I used to have this Tumblr. I had 100 Tumblrs and I had one called, what was it?
00:28:17
It was called Look at This Fucking Convict. and I would post a photo of a mug shot and just write what happened.
00:28:24
I should do that again. That's funny. Whatever. And I posted that one once. Okay.
00:28:28
Okay. So they pass out and Henley wakes up to find his mouth taped shut. His ankles are bound and Dean Corll is snapping handcuffs onto his wrist.
00:28:41
And Curly and Rhonda are also bound, gagged beside him. and Curly had been stripped naked.
00:28:51
So when Henley woke up, Coral removes the gag and he says, I'll help you kill them if you just let me go.
00:28:59
And he says, okay. And then so they untie Henley. They go to and Coral's going to sexually assault Curly.
00:29:12
And he says to Henley, go assault Rhonda. and ties them up. So Coral starts to assault Curly
00:29:20
and then Henley grabs Coral's pistol off the mantle, off the thing and shouts, you've gone too far, Dean.
00:29:29
I can't go on any longer. I can't have you kill all my friends and shoots Dean Coral in the forehead,
00:29:35
which didn't penetrate his fucking head. What? This again? I know. Why does this keep happening?
00:29:39
That's the second story we've heard where a bullet ricochets off of someone's skull.
00:29:44
Yep. Makes me feel a little better. I mean, it's insanity. Yeah. It also makes me think, is it the killers?
00:29:51
Like, is this a trait of certain types of people? When people say you got a real thick skull Yeah Maybe it a thing Yeah Science people Guys Figure it out Science people Cure cancer then figure it out Yeah Don prioritize this please
00:30:05
So he shoots Dean five more times in the hallway. He finally collapses dead. There's a fucking photo of that.
00:30:12
Of course there is. You can't see his face. And this murder of Dean Quirrell ends the worst serial killer case in Houston history.
00:30:21
Wayne Henley calls the police on himself. They arrive and Henley explained what had happened that night.
00:30:27
And the police thought of him as a hero initially because he saved his friends. And then the story took a turn as Henley began to tell detectives the crazy story of the past three fucking years.
00:30:40
So ever since they met in 1971, under the command of Dean Corll, Henley had helped procure teenage boys, some of whom had been his own friends, for Dean Corll to rape and murder.
00:30:54
detectives were like, fuck you, that's not true. They were totally skeptical. But they went through the crime scene with the house of Dean Corll, and they started finding
00:31:01
things that were like, oh shit, maybe he's not lying. They found plastic sheeting covering the floors, a plywood board with handcuffs on
00:31:10
each corner, which you can see online as well, dildos and other torture devices.
00:31:14
And then also his Ford Econoline had a wooden crate with air holes drilled in the sides, pegboard walls, and in the rear of the van were rigged
00:31:21
with several rings and hooks. As part of the fucking story in the last podcast on the left,
00:31:29
the shit that Henry Zabrowski is saying is some of the funniest shit I've ever heard.
00:31:34
Yes. It's like epic. He's the master. Yeah. There's a lot of triggering shit in there,
00:31:42
but that part's great. Okay. Da-da-da-da-da. And inside the crate were several strands of human hair.
00:31:48
They're still skeptical, though. And so Henley's like, let me show you something.
00:31:53
He leads detectives to a Southwest Houston boat shed rented by Coral, gives the names of three boys they could find buried in there that had been reported.
00:32:01
And the cops were like, well, those boys had been reported missing for three years.
00:32:06
And so they start to dig. This is the part in Last Podcast on the Lift where it's so upsetting and fucked up.
00:32:14
I think even Henry was upset at this part because it's so disturbing. Well, there's this document.
00:32:20
The only good documentary was on YouTube. It's called 1973 Houston Mass Murders.
00:32:27
But be careful because they show them digging bodies out. Yeah. And and the other part that's so insane is they get inmates from the local jail to help
00:32:36
them dig it out. And you're like, what if you had gotten a DUI and they were like, come dig out like you're
00:32:41
going to be fucking scarred for life. Yo, no. And everything about that part where it's like they just got some people who are not qualified basically as a punishment to uncover like killing a killing boat shed like the most teenage boys.
00:32:58
Yeah. OK. So. So they they begin to dig and find a body within minutes. They find the first body.
00:33:09
OK. So let's go to Dean Corll. There's a ton of shit about his childhood. I don't think any of it's relevant.
00:33:14
It's like the typical kind of shitty childhood. Mom and dad divorced, blah, blah, blah.
00:33:20
But it's not I don't think it's that important to the story that I'm telling. So I'm not going to fucking talk about it.
00:33:26
He ends up in the Heights neighborhood of Houston. And that's where a lot of this takes place.
00:33:31
The Heights neighborhood is kind of this poor, underprivileged neighborhood. And, you know, back then, children ran amok.
00:33:40
You do whatever the fuck you want. Yeah. So the reason he got his name, the Candyman, is he worked in his family's candy company.
00:33:47
And then in 1965, the candy company moved across the street from an elementary school.
00:33:52
And he was known to give free candy to local children. I mean, it's why not dress up like a clown? You've got everything else horrifying going on.
00:34:01
I mean, yeah, it's like 1973. They're like, go hang out with that nice man who gives you candy.
00:34:08
It's so suspicious. Yeah. No, it's not then, but it should be, right? Not then, but now that we know what we know,
00:34:15
it's just like people are like, oh, I'm not trying to catch any fish. I'm just making this huge fishing lure.
00:34:23
You know what I mean? It's just like, what would make children come around all the time?
00:34:27
What's that movie that has, what's his name? Matt Dillon and the kids take over the town.
00:34:36
Oh, on the edge? Over the edge? Over the edge. You mean where they're just partying in the suburbs like, and none of the parents are around?
00:34:42
Yeah. Yeah. Watch that movie. And that's what, to me, it seems like this time was like, it's a good movie, but also
00:34:49
you just were out till whenever you wanted to be. You had total freedom. Yeah. To hang out with fucking perverted.
00:34:57
Yeah. There was 13 year old men. Yes. It was the thing of if they're an adult, they're in charge.
00:35:02
Yeah. If they're an adult, they're fine. Yeah. Like that's all it takes to qualify is you have a job and a car and you don't have like
00:35:08
long hippie. Then you're a good guy. Then you're good. Yeah. So he was known to give free candy out, in particular teenage boys.
00:35:15
And he made a whole rec room for them to hang out with like a pool table and shit.
00:35:21
He's big and broad shoulders, thick black hair and sideburns. He was known, in the words of one of the reporters, a pleasant smiling candy man of the heights.
00:35:32
Red flag. Aren't they all? Aren't they all? Yeah. I don't know. Red flag. Yeah. I don't there's a couple pictures of him.
00:35:40
There's not a lot. And he just looks like a normal dude, a normal, like nice looking guy.
00:35:44
Yeah. Yeah. He's he's the creepiest in that he clean cut. Yes. He did it exactly right to not get caught.
00:35:52
He did it. So right. Okay. So 1967 he befriended 12 year old David Brooks He was in sixth grade His family life was kind of falling apart And so Brooks was taken under Dean wing as like a mentor almost He Brooks said about him he was the first adult male who didn make fun of him and that he was like a father figure which is insane
00:36:14
Yeah. So as a teen, as when Brooks became a teen, Coral paid him to allow him to perform fellatio on him. And he began living with Dean a lot since he was from this broken home. And I'm sure his family was like, great, he's got an adult role model. Yeah. But according to those who knew Brooks, the teenager wasn't gay. He had a girlfriend who lived in the Heights. But this older man who had known him since he was 12 was like, help me.
00:36:40
Yeah, he basically, well, that's what pedophiles do is they groom, they pick them.
00:36:46
They only pick children who aren't being protected. Yeah, this kid, they say that he was an introspective young kid.
00:36:52
So he probably didn't have a ton of friends. His parents were divorced and they moved away.
00:36:57
So in all of these fucking documentaries and all of these stories, they call Dean Coral homosexual.
00:37:04
And I can't fucking, I don't think that's right. I think he's a pedophile. And that's not the same thing as being homosexual.
00:37:10
Right. He even had a girlfriend. Dean Corral did? Yeah. Yeah, no, he's a pedophile.
00:37:14
He's a pedophile. Like, that's not homosexual. Right. So that's also, I think it could be, too, you're reading things from Texas in like the 80s,
00:37:23
maybe, where there's not, you know, people hadn't caught up all the way to like, what
00:37:29
are we really talking about? Because most pedophiles are straight men. Yeah. That's like governmental statistics.
00:37:35
Well, I still see it like copied in articles. you know the homosexual like just he's a pedophile who liked young boys so it's not i don't know it's
00:37:43
just something that irks me like i feel like if i had said that we'd get an email from someone to
00:37:47
be like that's not you know and rightfully correcting it and i totally agree with that yeah
00:37:51
exactly so dean corral's first known murder victim is 18 year old jeffrey conan on september 25th
00:37:59
1970 he'd been hitchhiking from the university of texas and was dropped off near dean's apartment
00:38:04
and they think that Dean offered him a ride and he gagged him with a cloth and strangled him.
00:38:11
After the murder of Jeffrey Conan, David Brooks, so his fucking kid who is 15, walks in on Coral in the act of assaulting two teenage boys
00:38:20
who Coral had strapped to a plywood torture board. And Coral promised Brooks a car in return for his silence.
00:38:28
He told Brooks, 15 years old, that he is part of a gay pornography ring. He had been paid to send the boys to California to pose for photos.
00:38:38
That's what his story was. It's so you don't have to worry about it. Yeah. Somehow.
00:38:42
But then later, Coral confessed that he had killed the boys and he offered David $200 for any boy he could lure to Coral's apartment.
00:38:53
And at this point, it seems like Brooks, people say he didn't have a choice. You know, he was now part of it because he had not told about the two boys he had seen him molesting.
00:39:05
And also this is this is a life change that's been introduced by a person he trusted.
00:39:10
So he doesn't he hasn't had any other adults in his life that have been reliable, it sounds like, or good people.
00:39:17
And now the one person that he sees as a good person is introducing all these kind of variables where he's supposed to believe this is OK behavior.
00:39:26
Or it's like, yeah, cut this person who's supported you for the past, you know, few years out of your life or do what's play along.
00:39:34
Play along. You're not going to kill anyone. Just bring him to him. I mean, it's insane. It's an insane fucking story.
00:39:41
But it's it's kind of like brainwashing. I mean, really, that's, you know, he's getting people.
00:39:46
He's not convincing anybody that's like coming from a great background with a lot of solid ground under their feet,
00:39:52
Which is in no way to say if you're from a broken home, obviously, that you would be.
00:39:57
But it's more of the he knew who to pick to groom to basically brainwash into living this way.
00:40:04
I mean, aside from Dean Corral, who's clearly a psychopath, it's insane that he was able to get this kid, David Brooks, to fucking do this for him.
00:40:10
And I can't wrap my head around it. I can't imagine a scenario that I'd ever be OK with that, which means it's a scenario that I can't even imagine.
00:40:18
It's like something really insane happened that this kid was okay with it. Right.
00:40:23
Or maybe he wasn't okay with it, but what else? He was already in. Yeah. Like he didn't, he had nowhere else to go.
00:40:29
Definitely. Okay. On December 13th, 1970. So David Brooks lures two 14 year old kids named James Glass and Danny Yates.
00:40:38
He lures them from a religious rally to Coral's apartment. You know, the thing of like, hey, let's go party.
00:40:44
You know, I got some weed and we can hang out at this dude's house. Yeah. cool older guy everyone loves it. There's a pool table.
00:40:50
Do you know who it is? It's fucking it's the movie oh my god what's wrong with my brain. It's Matthew
00:40:55
McConaughey. It's Matthew motherfucking McConaughey from Days and Confused. Days and Confused. Yes. That's exactly
00:41:01
who he is and the victim is the kid from it with the long hair. Yeah. The little kid
00:41:05
the new freshman. Yeah. That's exactly what it is and like everyone's like Matthew McConaughey's character's so cool.
00:41:11
No he's a fucking perverted pedophile. He's an old man. He's a gross old man. Yeah. He wants to hang
00:41:17
out with high school kids. But there is that thing of inclusion. If you are living your whole life,
00:41:23
so say it is, let's use the days and confused example. And that kid isn't just getting his
00:41:28
ass kicked at school, but there is very violent scenes of him getting his ass kicked at home,
00:41:32
home being an unsafe place for him to be. And then you've got Matthew Kahani rolling up and
00:41:37
being like, Hey man, it's chill. Come and play pool. Get in my cool car. I'll drive you around
00:41:42
town. We'll go to this bar, play pool. Totally. You found, you finally found somewhere to land.
00:41:47
You don't want to give that up right away. It almost like he slowly ebbed away or I don know there a better way to say it but like it almost like I bought him I bought you a car you know like he just grinding down this kid inner identity Yeah it fucked up
00:42:05
I mean, yeah, definitely. So let's so the police should arrest Matthew McConaughey.
00:42:11
That's what I'm saying. Let it get so much worse. You know, our tagline always. So both boys, James Glass and Danny Yates, are tied to opposite sides of Coral's torture board and subsequently raped and strangled.
00:42:28
Six weeks after that double murder on January 30th, 1971, Brooks and Coral find two teenage boys, brothers named Donald and Jerry Waldrop, Waldrop, Waldrop, Waldrop, walking.
00:42:42
walking. The boys were taken into the van, driven Coral's apartment. And it's like,
00:42:47
they don't grab them off the street. They want to party, which is the scariest part to me.
00:42:52
The apartment where they rape, torture and strangle the brothers. And at this point,
00:42:57
Brooks drops out of school. Just it's he's 100% with Coral. So yeah, and I bet you he's sorry, but I bet you he's if there's some, you know,
00:43:09
like the moral compass inside, he's probably having to self-medicate so much just to make all of this okay.
00:43:17
Right. And then having a normal life like school and teachers, your brain can't wrap around that.
00:43:23
There's no going back to sitting in a classroom after you're doing shit like this. Totally.
00:43:27
So between March and May of 1971, Coral abducted and killed three more victims, all of who lived
00:43:33
in the Heights area as well. His MO in most cases was gruesome torture and rape.
00:43:40
And he'd sometimes shoot them, sometimes strangle them. A couple occasions, he'd leave his victims to die
00:43:46
by bleeding out from the gunshot wound. And in each of these abductions, Brooks is known to have been a participant.
00:43:53
Again, they go a lot further into it if you're okay with gruesome shit in last podcast on the left.
00:43:58
The other two victims were 13-year-old David Hildegeist and 16-year-old Greg Winkle.
00:44:06
And they were abducted and killed together on the afternoon of May 29th, 1971. And so in the case with other parents as well, both sets of parents are frantic to find their kids.
00:44:17
They know something is wrong. These are young boys who don't run away. And one of the people who voluntarily offered to distribute posters of the boys was a friend of theirs, 15-year-old neighbor, Wayne Henley, lifelong friend of Hildeguist.
00:44:33
so at this point in 71 Brooks introduces Coral to Wayne Henley from the beginning of the story he shot and killed
00:44:42
Dean Coral and it's possible that Wayne was supposed to be a potential victim but for some reason
00:44:50
they became friends and Wayne Henley became another accomplice Wayne Henley said about him
00:44:58
we hit it off he was a smart clean cut nicely dressed man He listened to me. He explained things to me. I'll be honest with you. It was important that
00:45:06
Dean liked me. He was kind. Wow. I know. Which then explains, is it David Brooks? Yeah. Yeah.
00:45:13
Explains his participation. Same thing. Yeah. The value of just being there and like listening.
00:45:21
Not being parental, being like the cool uncle. Yeah. Or just trying to like pay attention a
00:45:27
little bit. Yeah. I feel like parents are getting that now nowadays, like in spades. Yeah. But in
00:45:32
the seventies, it was just like your parents were the people that came home and you ate meals with
00:45:37
and they yelled at you. Yeah. Because it was like, it was also in a, in a lower class neighborhood.
00:45:42
So it was probably both parents were working. So they didn't have time to fucking deal with your
00:45:47
shit. And you know, and you were, maybe you were a bad kid, let's say, and they didn't.
00:45:52
yeah. Yeah. You were just one more headache. Yeah. I mean, this, that's how it is for some
00:46:00
people. It was for a lot of people back then. Yeah, for sure. Um, they hit it off. And when
00:46:06
he found out Henley didn't about the murders, Henley didn't go to the police, even when, um,
00:46:12
Coral told him that he had been the person who abducted and killed David Hildeguist,
00:46:16
his childhood friend. Coral pushed Henley to bring him another boy and he picked Frank Aguirre,
00:46:23
a good friend of his, which is so fucking insane. But I think that speaks to the level of psychopath
00:46:29
that Dean Coral was because they're like the greatest like traveling salesman that you've ever met.
00:46:37
That to me is so dark. I mean, it's fucking crazy awful, obviously, but like to bring a friend to know that he's going to get at least he's going to get raped but i mean i think
00:46:52
that the pitch is on dean coral's side is like i will like you even more you will get even more
00:46:58
for me even better like show me you mean it yeah almost like show me how much maybe involved in
00:47:03
this i mean whatever psychopaths do to get you to hypnotize you into doing what they want
00:47:09
this guy was good at it. Yeah, very good. I mean, it's insane. Yeah. Okay, so they bring him.
00:47:17
Okay, they play the game, which we fucking have heard again and again, the handcuff game.
00:47:22
Handcuff game. Good old handcuff game, the one where Henley and Brooks put on the pair of handcuffs
00:47:28
behind their back. They have a secret key and they're like, see, they're trick handcuffs.
00:47:31
You try it. And then he tries it. Nope. And he's stuck. oh you can just picture it it breaks my fucking heart if you are ever in a scenario age anything
00:47:44
up till any at any point in your life let's say there's no age limit on this game and someone
00:47:50
says let's play the handcuff game immediately walk out of the room and call the police
00:47:55
kick them yeah why why else because at the very least they're a magician so you should call the
00:48:00
police anyway. But there's almost nothing good comes out of the handcuff game. A, don't be alone in a room with a man ever, unless it's your boyfriend or something. Don't
00:48:09
be alone in a room with a man, especially a strange man, especially if there's handcuffs.
00:48:16
Three times underlined if there's handcuffs. Do you think I'd ever let anyone but like Vince and Steven in this house if I were alone?
00:48:23
No, I would. If someone knocked, I would tiptoe to the door. I would peek out the thing and I'd
00:48:27
be like hell fucking no. Now what if you had the handcuffs? What if the power was in your
00:48:31
hands? I don't know. I would just like handcuff him and paint his nails because I'm not a psychopath.
00:48:37
The idea that anyone wants to handcuff anybody is something bad is about to happen.
00:48:44
That's not a game. Let's look for our context clues of bad things happening. Even if they want to do the fucking
00:48:49
Chinese finger trap. Still, that's two fingers you don't have. Nope that shit and get the fuck out of there. Goodbye.
00:48:56
I hate this birthday party, mom. Goodbye. You're leaving your mom alone with him now.
00:49:02
What a dick. Kids are such assholes. OK, so they play the handcuff game. When Aguirre puts on the handcuffs, Coral drags the teenager into the bedroom.
00:49:13
And according to Henley, quote, had his fun with him. Can I just tell you, I've been studying this one.
00:49:18
I was like, I'm going to do it this week. And I had two days to do it. And I'm like, no, you're not.
00:49:21
This is too much. And so I've been doing it for three weeks. and having fucking nightmares.
00:49:27
I bet. Like, I'm really glad to get this fucking over with. This one and the Toy Box Killer are like,
00:49:32
I stopped listening to the Toy Box Killer on Last Podcast Live. I can't do that.
00:49:37
There's nothing. They have recordings of it. The fact that there's recordings of him.
00:49:43
Just know. Just don't, you guys, if you're sensitive, don't read the Toy Box Killer about it.
00:49:48
It's the worst. I'll never do it. It's pure demonic destruction. there's nothing interesting about it.
00:49:57
It's a person who can destroy people and does very slowly. It's horrible. Yeah. So in late 72,
00:50:03
they brought 17-year-old Billy Balk who used to sell Dean Coral's candy door-to-door
00:50:12
and his 16-year-old friend Johnny DeLone. 14 months later, Coral, Henley, and Brooks
00:50:18
grabbed Billy's younger brother, Michael, who was on his way to get a haircut. How fucking sad is that?
00:50:22
The parents lost. First, their kid. First kid goes missing. Then they grab his little brother and he goes missing.
00:50:29
And the parents know something is wrong. In a lot of the in a lot of the documentaries, they're like they thought they were runaways or like they were poor and they didn't care at that point if they were runaways, which from what I read and what I can tell, it's not true.
00:50:42
His parents knew something was wrong. Yeah. So they captured and killed a 20 year old father who had been living in the heights and was hitchhiking.
00:50:50
they snatched Homer Garcia, a boy from Southwest Houston, who was going to driver's ed with fucking
00:50:56
Henley. And then two boys who had just moved into an apartment across the street from Henley's house.
00:51:01
Then it was 15 year old Billy Lawrence was and he was forced to write a letter to his father
00:51:06
saying, Daddy, I hope you know, at the end, he's saying, I'm going to go away for a little while.
00:51:13
I got this job. I'll be back in town. And then he wrote at the end, Daddy, I hope you know,
00:51:17
I love you, your son, Billy. He was kept alive for three days on the plywood because
00:51:23
Henry later said Coral quote, really liked him. Next was Rusty Branch. And in a total, so in total, 28 boys
00:51:35
from the Houston area disappeared in a three fucking year span. 28? 28 boys aging from 9 to 21.
00:51:44
11 went missing from the same junior high school. 11 teenage boys not teenage 13 14
00:51:51
year old boys 12 year old boys from the same junior high school red fucking flag principal whatever your name is
00:51:57
where is anybody doing anything principal Dave fucking call the police and at least
00:52:07
20 of them had been residents of either the heights or adjoining neighborhoods many parents
00:52:13
of the boys were had desperate searches for their kids. Some took out. So there were people who took out a loan to hire a private detective offered.
00:52:21
And remember, these are people who don't have money. Right. Offered a large reward, called the police constantly.
00:52:27
They employed multiple psychics. In the end, police were even aware that anything was amiss.
00:52:32
Of course, they did the fucking they're all runaways. Yeah. 28 boys in three years and they're all runaways.
00:52:37
So it was the norm, though, in the 70s, especially kids who came from the heights,
00:52:41
who police just wouldn't even look into it. Okay, about the police. I don't want to blame them and dismiss them as being shitty at their jobs because there was a lot going on at the time, which made it a perfect hunting ground for Coral. Houston's crazy domineering police chief Herman Short, he believed in an old school way of law enforcement. He Houston was exploding a population. There was a fucking ton of money. So there were really rich people there. And that's who they really cared or really cared about.
00:53:11
they had an understaffed police force in 1970 they had half the minimum to police the population
00:53:17
whoa and this is in places where there's a lot of crime going on and they underpaid the cops
00:53:23
federal funds were available but short refused any federal assistance calling it a handout
00:53:27
oh no no no no it's like the wild fucking west get out of here the workload was so crazy that
00:53:34
many cops just gave up and they played a game of who could leave work the earliest
00:53:38
So parents who had lost their sons on one side of the Heights had no idea that there
00:53:43
are parents on the other side of the Heights who had also lost sons. So there was, it was just a disorganized, insane, hopeless, hopeless.
00:53:51
The thought of being a parent and not being I always thought about that with the runaway thing where it like you know your kid better than anyone There something wrong Also just that the idea that they essentially what it sounds like is there was almost no police force for them
00:54:08
Right. Which is horrifying. Talk about this is an amazing Fincher. Here's your next movie.
00:54:14
Dude. Because it's the Candyman, which in and of itself is a huge, horrifying story.
00:54:20
Like the fact the name is like spot on. It's one of those like classic. Yeah. But then on top of that, he's so he's clearly so smart.
00:54:30
Yes. Dean Corll is so smart. And the opportunity he he got lucky. He got lucky that it was that period of time and that he was this master manipulator.
00:54:40
But that part, I remember when Marcus was talking about that part in their thing and the details they gave about all those things.
00:54:47
It was mind blowing where it's like there's always, you know, it's like the same thing happened in the late 70s.
00:54:53
in LA in the late 70s there was four serial killers working at one time. Jesus Christ.
00:54:59
And it was the same thing if the cops didn't they were all competing with each other so they wouldn't do cross
00:55:05
county communication. They wouldn't do Well they didn't have a lot of ways of, even if they wanted to
00:55:11
there was no internet. You couldn't call and be like do you have someone who was strangled?
00:55:15
It's like there's tons of other things going on at the same time. There's all kinds of stuff and it's
00:55:21
all, yeah, everything's like write a letter. Oh, do you want to find out if something happened in the valley? Write a letter.
00:55:27
Right. So the one thing that Chief Short did do in an attempt to make sure the crimes
00:55:33
didn't happen after they found out about it was order his officers to raid the city's
00:55:37
gay bars. Problem solved. Problem solved. Yay. Good job. Good job. Okay, let's go back to the
00:55:47
beginning of the story. 1973, Wayne Henley leads skeptical police to the boat shed
00:55:51
that Dean Corll rented. They start to dig with the help of fucking inmates, and they found the first body in a matter of minutes, then two more, then another six underneath them stacked up.
00:56:03
Henley also led authorities to a location near a wooded area near Sam Rayburn Reservoir, where four bodies were uncovered.
00:56:12
The day after Henley's arrest, David Brooks turns himself in to the police. Henley hadn't even mentioned him.
00:56:17
He didn't rat him out. I know. And together they led police to a location on High Island.
00:56:23
It's like there's like scenes of them digging at a beach. It's crazy. Wow. But like people camping and there's fucking bodies.
00:56:31
So they found six more bodies at High Island. And within a week, the remains of 27 young males had been found.
00:56:38
Wow. A week after the first bodies are found, despite a few thousand missing persons reports having come in from 1968 to 1970s,
00:56:46
70s, the authorities, they collect the excavations despite the fact that even Henley and Brooks told them they knew
00:56:54
where other bodies could be located. They just decided that's enough? Well, I think they didn't want the death toll to get
00:57:00
higher. Because it looks so bad. Yeah. I think that they were like already under so much
00:57:06
scrutiny by the media that they stopped. Can I just say this? If you're ever in this situation
00:57:14
where you're in charge of something that's going to total shit. The only thing you can do at a certain point is let the truth come out.
00:57:22
Because you pretend it like that idea is so to me, such a like male in his 60s. I'm in
00:57:31
charge of this. Watch. Listen to me, everybody. It's narcissistic in a way that I can't put
00:57:35
myself in those parents' shoes that they might want to find. Like, I don't understand what
00:57:39
anyone else is. He's prioritizing what looks like for him as opposed to what it feels like
00:57:45
He probably can't even begin to comprehend other people's emotions. Well, but also he's in a situation that he's not trained for.
00:57:55
He's never even thought could happen. And he screwed up from the get go. Yeah. And but when you're at that point, let it all come out.
00:58:05
Because you have to think of like long term how it looks and also what your actual job is.
00:58:11
Your job is to protect people. You can't now pretend like you protected anybody.
00:58:15
Because that's off the boards entirely. Why am I talking about this? I'm not giving advice to this fucking sheriff from 40 years ago.
00:58:24
But it bums me out because you watch people make these decisions where it's like,
00:58:28
okay, well, now I'm just going to scramble to cover my own ass. It drives me crazy.
00:58:31
Yeah, where it's like, that part's over. It's over. The thing, like my therapist will always say when I get these calamity things in my head
00:58:38
of everything's going to fall apart. She's like, okay, what can they not take away from you?
00:58:43
And it's like, they can't take away Vince. They can't wake up my cats. They can't take my family.
00:58:48
I'm healthy still. It's like it's going to suck and you're going to look like a piece of shit, but it's going
00:58:54
to be OK in the long run. Don't add to it. Don't fucking add to it by lying. Don't lie.
00:59:00
Don't lie. Because here's the other thing, too. It's that thing where you you can you can lie, obviously.
00:59:05
And in the moment, you're going to think that that's a good thing. You're out of it.
00:59:07
Yeah, you got out of your up. You're tripling down on how bad you look when you tell a lie, because here's the thing.
00:59:13
And I just, this is a recommendation lying in general as a, as a great, huge liar all
00:59:17
my life. You always get caught and it's humiliating and you look 10 times worse than you actually
00:59:24
are. Yeah. Cause you think there's a side, you think there's a shortcut. You think you can get out of it by just saying something.
00:59:31
Please just know there's always someone around who knows the truth and knows you're lying
00:59:35
and you're doubling down. You're absolutely right. Because then you can't come back and be like, okay, this is what actually happened.
00:59:41
Right. But you also lied about it. Right. So you're even a bigger piece of shit.
00:59:44
You're just making everything worse. Like the best thing. And this was like training from,
00:59:49
from high stress TV daily TV production where it just come clean immediately and start fixing it Yeah That the only thing that was ever solution You never got in trouble for fucking up as long as you were in the solution Yeah But when you lie and you go like Oh someone else told me well then you delaying the fix and delaying the fix is really
01:00:10
the worst sin of all. Cause lying is just, that's just for your ego. Yeah. But you have to fix it.
01:00:15
Yeah. Fuck the seventies, the seventies, stop lying. The eighties need to go to prison. The
01:00:22
The 70s need to stop lying. The 90s. I'm not ready to talk about the 90s. We'll go there.
01:00:28
We can't give you all our advice in one episode or you'll never listen again. Listen, we have a lot more fucking advice.
01:00:35
Look and listen to our advice and take it. The 70s. Right. In case there's time travel.
01:00:43
Okay. So Henley and Brooks get life sentences. They're still alive. Go back in this 1973 Houston Mass Murders video on YouTube.
01:00:54
The cameras are rolling while they're excavating bodies, and Henley is talking. Henley is telling reporters what happened.
01:01:02
He couldn't stop talking. I bet. It's pretty incredible. There's a part where he calls his mom.
01:01:08
Mama, I killed Dean. There's a part of him on the phone with his mom. As cameras are recording it?
01:01:15
Yep. Jesus Christ. Yep. Well, also because I bet you those kids were in complete trauma mode.
01:01:20
They were like in shock. Yeah. For years. It's over. I mean, yeah, it's over. It's crazy.
01:01:26
Okay. In 2012, a Polaroid of a young boy handcuffed and screaming. I've seen it.
01:01:32
No. Don't look at those. I have to. Don't. I mean. I have to. It's my fucking psyche.
01:01:40
Okay. But just don't do that damage to yourself. I've been nightmaring. Yeah. Of course.
01:01:45
It turns up in some of Henley's possessions. And when presented with the photo, Henley said he didn't recognize the boy, which is
01:01:53
if it's true, it means there's at least one other victim, a 29th that's yet to be identified.
01:01:57
It's also guessed that there could have been past accomplices who became victims themselves.
01:02:03
That would make sense. Just as Henley might have as well. And based on his skill and M.O. of the first killing, it's very doubtful that was actually
01:02:11
his first, the kid who was hitchhiking. Yeah. And I completely believe it. There's no way.
01:02:17
A reporter named Barbara Gibson and Dr. Sharon Derrick, a forensic anthropologist with the medical examiner's office in Houston, now are working to identify the three victims that have yet to be named.
01:02:30
These women are fucking awesome. And then to end it, I just want to quote Willie Glass, the brother of Jimmy Glass, who disappeared or who was killed, said, Dean Corral didn't just kill 27 boys.
01:02:42
he killed 27 families. And that's my story of the Canyonman, Dean Corll. And now I don't ever want to think about it again.
01:02:52
Yeah. Until David Fincher makes the movie. The Finch. Oh God. That movie would be.
01:03:00
That was great. I mean, that's the best case scenario you can do. There's some details in that digging part
01:03:10
that will be with me forever. Yeah, I definitely, I mean, there's some genital mutilation that I didn't talk about.
01:03:19
There's some fucking torture or torture stuff that I just can't. And also, you know what it is.
01:03:25
If you've seen one thing, if you've accidentally read or seen something that's about this, that's what it is.
01:03:31
You know what it is. You don't need more of it. Yeah. I mean, I understand the thing of like your curiosity gets the best of you.
01:03:37
But I stopped doing that a little while ago only because it becomes all the same.
01:03:42
And then you're just basically doing specifics of faces or hair colors or whatever.
01:03:47
But it's the same horrible scenario. Yeah. I mean, I just, you know, I do the thing where I keep going back to that Polaroid they found.
01:03:55
And I look deep into this kid's eyes to see if I can what I can suss out of it. You know what I mean?
01:04:00
And like he looks like he's in a box. It's a blurry photo. And you can see like there's a toolbox next to him.
01:04:08
And I just try. I keep putting myself in his shoes. and I can't do that. Like it's, I feel like I have to.
01:04:15
But I mean, to what value? To what end? It's just being empathetic of the stories that I'm telling.
01:04:22
You can be empathetic and know nothing about it. I'm empathetic and all I did was listen to what you told me.
01:04:28
I mean, it's horrifying. But that's also, you know, everybody has different experiences
01:04:32
with actually looking at the things. Just don't get confused about what, you know what I mean?
01:04:40
Yeah. what I need to do. Do what's good for you. Yeah. Nightmares aren't good for you. Yeah.
01:04:45
That's not the point. Yeah. Oh, the candy man. Oh, the candy man. Everyone will suffer under the
01:04:52
candy man. Okay, we're back. Are there updates for this case? Yes. So there are in 2020, David
01:05:02
Brooks died in prison of COVID-19. And then Elmer Henley has been denied parole several times over
01:05:08
the years, most recently in November, 2025. His next Pearl hearing will be in 2035, but a couple
01:05:15
things to look out for in 2025, journalist Lise Olson's book, The Scientist and the Serial Killer,
01:05:21
The Search for Houston's Lost Boys was published. That one centers around Dr. Sharon Derrick's
01:05:26
effort to identify Quarles' victims. And then also there is a documentary based on a book
01:05:32
called The Serial Killer's Apprentice that I started reading. You can stream that on like
01:05:37
HBO Max, I believe. And it's written by Katherine Ramsland and Tracy Ullman. And that is just,
01:05:44
I mean, yeah, it's about Elmer Wayne Henley, you know, being groomed to become this killer and
01:05:50
what did it mean and what you know what level of responsibility does he have you know which obviously some Right Well and all the other questions that they my dad brought this case up to me the last time I was at home Yes And I was like he and he was bringing up all the things that you say
01:06:08
where it's like, how could that go on so long? How could no one know? How could he get that kind of
01:06:13
like brainwashy control over a person? Is it because he was like on drugs? It was that weird
01:06:18
time of the 70s. There's just so much to dig into about this case that's so extreme and so horrific.
01:06:26
Yeah. The Serial Killer's Apprentice, I recommend it. It just continues to boggle our minds.
01:06:31
Yeah. All right. Well, let's get into Karen's story about a classic L.A. story, the silent movie theater
01:06:37
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Well, mine is, um, uh, this is actually, it's not firsthand. I guess it's kind of secondhand, but I've wanted to do this one for a while.
01:10:49
I just didn't know any details. And I, when I would look it up, I, it was always very vague.
01:10:54
There wasn't enough story. And then, um, one of the shows that is on my DVR that comes up every couple of times,
01:11:01
every once a month, maybe it's a show called demons in the city. City of Angels. Have you heard of it? No. Okay. So that's where, um, when I did the publicist
01:11:12
that got murdered, um, it was from that. That's when I first saw that story and I was like,
01:11:17
Oh, I remember that. Um, well, this one is the story I wanted to do. And it came up one
01:11:22
day where I was like, Oh my God. And it's the murder at the silent movie theater. Do
01:11:27
you remember this? Yeah. Okay. So demons in the city of angels narrated by an incredibly
01:11:34
intense man named AJ Benza, who I believe himself was a crime reporter or I don't, I'm
01:11:42
not sure what, I don't know that much about him, but I think he is, has a true crime background,
01:11:46
but now, um, he's hosted lots of shows. I've seen him on other things, but now he narrates
01:11:51
this show and it's all crimes that happen in LA. I love it. I need to watch it. It's
01:11:55
pretty good. But this one, I was just so happy because it's the T the D. detailed versions of this story. So it's 1997, Los Angeles. Um, I moved here in 1994. When did
01:12:08
you move here? 98, 98. So this was kind of like one of the first big bad, I mean, I moved here
01:12:16
the year of the earthquake and, uh, OJ and, um, riots, all that stuff happened right around the
01:12:23
same time as when I moved here. Um, so this was kind of the next big one. And this, there's a
01:12:29
silent movie theater on Fairfax at, um, Melrose, just below Melrose. I think it's like two blocks
01:12:35
below right now. Um, it's in flux because it is, it was bought by a company called Cinefamily
01:12:44
that was doing these amazing, their calendar was incredible. I am a member. I know tons of people
01:12:50
who are members and they would show amazing either new movies or, um, you know, directors,
01:12:56
whole weekends of directors films all this stuff it was this it was really a fun creative
01:13:02
place and then they very recently I think it was like three months ago I got an email saying
01:13:10
all films all like of all of our plans are suspended right now because these huge sexual
01:13:18
harassment like accusations came down the pike and they're like until we know what's going on we're
01:13:24
not doing anything anymore with the with the heads of cine family yeah the people who are running it so i don't know details about any of
01:13:32
those things and that's not what my story is about but it's a bummer because this movie theater has
01:13:39
had issues since i mean like i i'm very interested yeah interested to know what was there before
01:13:45
yeah because it's never not had bad vibes yeah it's like something's going on yeah because there's
01:13:52
never not something some issue so we'll go to this is the night january 17th 1997
01:13:58
um and this is the anniversary of the sixth year of the reopening of the silent movie theater
01:14:06
so um i think i think before this uh it it the movie theater had been built by dorothy and john
01:14:17
Hampton. They bought an empty lot there on Fairfax and they built the theater from the ground up.
01:14:24
And, um, so this guy, uh, Larry Austin got a job at the theater when he's 19 years old.
01:14:32
He was a local kid. He grew up in the Fairfax district. Um, but he was gay and in his teens,
01:14:40
his father rejected him. His father basically kicked him out of the house and he, um,
01:14:46
the Hamptons basically took him in like family. So he started working at the silent movie theater
01:14:53
in its original form when he was 19 years old. How cool would that be? Yeah. And he was super into as many people, when you live in Los Angeles, there are a lot of people,
01:15:04
it's all about kind of who you know and how connected you are to the movie business or TV,
01:15:09
but movies are a little fancier. And this, I think Larry always wanted to be in show business in some way.
01:15:18
And working at the silent movie theater, he was, you know, he did everything for this family from when he was 19.
01:15:24
He was with the Hamptons for 37 years. Holy shit. So he really was like a son of theirs until the theater closed in 1979.
01:15:34
And it was basically, it was just kind of a place where people who cared about film and
01:15:39
movie buffs and stuff would go to watch silent films, but it wasn't like doing a great
01:15:46
business or whatever, so they ended up having to close. And then in May of 1990,
01:15:52
John Hampton died. And after he died, Dorothy Hampton was really depressed, and Larry Austin
01:16:00
convinced her to reopen the theater. He thought that would be the perfect thing for her. Um, and she agreed. And so, uh, they decide that they're going to go in. They,
01:16:12
the, the, the theater was basically, um, kind of left just standing for 10 years with nothing going
01:16:19
on in it. So they have to hire a contractor to come in and basically help them rebuild the theater
01:16:24
so they can reopen it. And the contractor is a guy named James Van Sickle. Um, and, uh, as they
01:16:32
work on the theater and slowly rebuild it. Larry Austin, who at this point is, I think he is in his
01:16:40
early sixties and Van Sickle, who is in his late thirties, start having an affair. The contractor
01:16:47
and the guy who was family basically like a son. Yes. Got it. Exactly. Okay. Um, the guy whose idea
01:16:54
was to reopen and with the widow, uh, Dorothy Hampton. And, um, so they basically put all of
01:17:02
their work and larry lives in the apartment above the movie theater cool i didn't even know there
01:17:06
was one i know how awesome don't you love that idea yes like when you go into the theater the
01:17:11
popcorn stand is on the right there's a set of stairs um that's over there too right and i think
01:17:18
that goes up to the projection booth but i like to picture yeah that that also then you walk past
01:17:24
the projection booth then there's like a bed a little gingham yeah a cot and a kitchen table
01:17:30
oh yeah i love it but i don't really know because i haven't been up there but that's what it that's
01:17:34
how it is in my mind okay so um so basically on the night of the reopening i'm sorry so six years
01:17:44
after the reopening so they reopen it everything goes great dorothy is thrilled and basically
01:17:49
they back in business yay and um but eventually dorothy has to get moved into uh an old folks home anyway So on the sixth anniversary of the reopening of the silent movie theater Larry decides he going to play the first movie that played there when it
01:18:07
originally opened, which is the movie sunrise. But there's also a bunch of short films that he's playing and it's kind of just
01:18:13
like a big, you know, celebration of the silent movie theater. So this is January 17th, 1997.
01:18:21
If I haven't already said that 17 times. Okay. Okay. So that night there's like 60 people in the theater, which is packed for that.
01:18:30
If you picture 60 people, that's like fucking wall to wall. Yeah. Half an hour into the program.
01:18:36
And also Larry, when they reopened it, and I don't know if he did this before, but he definitely did it on the reopening in 1990.
01:18:43
He used to go up and introduce every night, every movie, everything in a tuxedo.
01:18:49
Oh, I love him. Yeah. So this was like his, really his life. And people really famous people used to go to that theater to watch movies.
01:18:56
It was kind of like, um, you know, it was like a very hipster thing. Like I'm into movies.
01:19:02
I'm in the fucking silent movies. I know the owner. He's so cool. Whatever, whatever.
01:19:06
Exactly. So Larry goes up and he's like, tonight it's a Buster Keaton feature, whatever.
01:19:09
And he like, basically, if you don't know that much about silent film, you are still
01:19:14
introduced and kind of brought into that world in this really lovely way. And he was like, he made them special.
01:19:20
Yeah. You're not just going to see a movie. It's a production. Yes. And it's like old Hollywood.
01:19:25
And that was his whole deal. The tuxedo is like the crowning glory. Yeah. Is that a thing?
01:19:30
He had a job where he got to wear a tuxedo every night. He was into it. And just so you know, after they redid the whole theater,
01:19:41
Larry Austin kept James Van Sickle on as his projectionist. So Van Sickle was interested in films, I think,
01:19:47
or at least knew enough to become the projectionist. But basically this relationship grew up out of them rebuilding the silent movie theater.
01:19:56
And Larry Austin's friend said he was over the moon. I mean, he fucking gets this hot, young, beefy contractor.
01:20:05
And they're working on the love of his life, this project that he's worked on all of his life.
01:20:11
They said he was so thrilled. There's a friend of his is in the Demons in the City of Angels,
01:20:17
where he just says like he would look at him like when he talked like he hung the moon i mean he was
01:20:22
just completely in love and they lived in the little apartment together over the movie theater
01:20:27
and that's the end right and that's the end and that's all i have to tell you about today two
01:20:31
children from an wait really quick yeah um something terrible happens so on this the night
01:20:40
of the six year first it's like me with the story don't tell me don't tell me don't tell me about
01:20:45
Don't tell me about the crime scene photos. On the night of the six-year anniversary, Larry goes up.
01:20:50
Tonight, we're going to watch Sunrise and then all these other short films and da-da-da.
01:20:54
He goes back out into the lobby, into the ticket booth. And about half an hour into the program, a guy gets up and comes out and says he wants to buy tickets for a future showing.
01:21:04
There's a girl named Mary Giles. I think her last name is pronounced. Giles or Giles.
01:21:09
And she's 19 years old. She works at the concession stand. and she's like oh you need to talk to larry about buying future tickets and when the door opens to
01:21:17
that ticket booth that's in the front of the theater um the guy pulls a gun a 357 magnum
01:21:24
out of his pocket and tells larry he wants all the money from the ticket booth so larry gives
01:21:30
him all the money he pulls everything out of the cash register and gives it to him and comes out
01:21:36
of the booth and with Mary, he hands the money over and the guy with the gun takes the money
01:21:42
drops it and shoots Larry in the face. In the face? In the fucking face. He shot him
01:21:48
once in the face, Larry goes down and then he turns and shoots him like I think three more times.
01:21:54
Oh my god. Just like to make sure he's dead. No. Then he turns to Mary Giles and shoots her twice in the
01:22:00
chest. She's just a fucking girl working at the... She's just a girl working at the movie theater. I didn't know that.
01:22:06
Yeah. The way I pictured it in my head all the time is like so much different than it actually.
01:22:11
That it happened in the theater? Well, because also, and I didn't know this until the first time I went to the silent movie theater.
01:22:16
It's fucking tiny. Yes. There is no, it's not like, you know, your fucking IMAX theater.
01:22:21
It's a tiny little space. Yeah. A tiny office in the front. Yeah. So this is all close quarters.
01:22:28
Yes. It's very close quarters. Like it feels almost New York style, of course, close quarters.
01:22:32
It's a mini like art house movie theater. Yeah. And when you're there, like, that's where I went to go see Zodiac.
01:22:41
Right. When they redid it. And it was perfect because you could see it perfectly.
01:22:45
There was no bad seats and the place was packed. So it was like everyone was excited to see that movie.
01:22:50
It's like a small town movie theater reminds me of. Exactly. Which is like one screen.
01:22:53
That's it. Yeah. Anyways. He shoots Mary. He fucking shoots Mary also. Oh, honey.
01:22:58
And then runs out through the movie theater. So he has a front door. He can run out and be right on Fairfax.
01:23:05
Why didn't he do that? He ran through the movie theater, shot into the air while these people are watching the movie,
01:23:11
and then runs out the back door where the patio is. Oh, my God. So everyone in the theater witnesses this guy with his hood pulled up shooting into the air.
01:23:19
Of course, everyone freaks out. Yeah. So, you know, the police come. Mary gets taken to the hospital, and she survives.
01:23:28
Oh, good. Two to the fucking chest, and Mary survives. Two to the chest? Two to the chest.
01:23:33
Yes. Girl. Okay. So everyone interviewed in the, in the episode. No. Okay. Um, everyone was so freaked out by this.
01:23:45
I completely remember it happening. I remember everybody talking about it. And at the time we had just started doing standup comedy shows at Largo,
01:23:54
which is five blocks down the street That so scary Yes So one of the first so the guy that owns Largo which is now at a different much larger location is a guy named Mark Flanagan
01:24:06
He's the owner operator. And he's one of those, he's an Irishman from Belfast. He's full of shit.
01:24:12
His eyes are dark brown. He's full of shit. And he is one of my favorite people on the planet.
01:24:16
He's one of my closest friends. And he's the kind of person that starts to talk to you
01:24:20
when you very first meet him, like you've already been talking for 20 minutes. I love it.
01:24:24
It's my favorite. It's the kind of person that's just like, anyway. Yeah. And this is one of the first stories he ever told me.
01:24:31
What? Because after the shooting, they had just opened Largo at that location, which is now, I think it's a bar called The Dimes.
01:24:40
Yeah. Something like that. You're probably right. And now it's a very hamster area.
01:24:44
It doesn't look the same at all. They like gutted it. Oh, really? They redid the whole thing? I think.
01:24:49
Oh, I haven't been in there. I could make that out. Um, but they had just opened Largo and they were just starting to get like the music acts
01:24:57
every night and stuff. And, um, James Van Sickle came down and told Flanagan what happened.
01:25:02
Like Larry got shot. He was murdered. We don't know what's happening. The police are investigating it.
01:25:07
Um, we're trying to tell him this. What's that? The carpenter was telling him this.
01:25:11
The contractor, exactly. Yeah. This planning and telling me, telling the story of the guy coming down and saying, I don't
01:25:17
know why I made him a carpenter, but well, that's what a contractor is. Okay. He can just do more than carpet.
01:25:22
Right. So he basically comes down and says, we want to have a memorial fundraiser.
01:25:31
Is there any anything you can do to help? And Flanning's like, well, you can have it here.
01:25:37
So they have a memorial fundraiser for Larry Austin and for the silent movie theater at Largo.
01:25:45
Oh, my God. In March of 1997. Were you there? No. This was before. Just say yes.
01:25:53
But remember the lies? They get found out. Oh, right, right, right, right, right.
01:25:55
Because then the seven people from Largo were like, I was there. You weren't there.
01:25:58
You absolutely weren't there. But he was like, well, of course, these are our neighbors.
01:26:04
And we want to be good people. And we just opened this business. Like, we want to play ball, whatever.
01:26:08
It was Flanagan and John Bryan, the famed musician who also was kind of like, had, I don't think he was an owner.
01:26:16
But he was like, you know, this was his home club. Yeah. Club. And he and he, of course, wanted to help in any way.
01:26:22
So I think part of the benefit was John played and they got other musicians to play and they raised a bunch of money and gave it to the silent movie theater in, you know, Larry Austin's name.
01:26:34
Yeah. Well, it turns out the same night that they have this, which was March 12th of 1997, is the same night that the police begin to surveil James Von Sickle.
01:26:46
because he is the prime suspect in this murder. But he doesn't know it and nobody else knows it either.
01:26:52
But as they were looking into after this crime and they start looking into who's involved in this,
01:27:01
James Van Sickle is the one person named on Larry Austin's will of who the now what also nobody knew
01:27:10
was the movie theater, the land, and all of the films inside, the whole thing was worth over a million dollars.
01:27:20
I bet that land, man, if you own that land. Oh, yeah. In L.A.? In L.A., right on Fairfax?
01:27:26
Yeah. So they start looking into James Van Sickle's past and basically his record,
01:27:34
and they find out he, in 1988, was charged with attempted murder in a Compton case,
01:27:41
but it was dismissed after the victim failed to appear in court. So that just went away.
01:27:49
That goes away? In 1989, he was sentenced to four years in Orange County for selling drugs, transporting, and selling narcotics.
01:27:58
He served half that time at Chino, and he also had check fraud charges that were pending.
01:28:11
So I guess they were still working on that. He had several aliases. He had multiple California driver's licenses.
01:28:17
Wow. Fraudster. Yeah. And in 1996, so the year before, Larry Austin had filed a police report
01:28:25
accusing Van Sickle of assault and robbery. Oh, sorry, assault and robbery. Wow.
01:28:32
But he ended up dropping the charges. So clearly this relationship was not as lovey-dovey as everyone thought.
01:28:39
Yeah, guilty. Yeah. And there was some serious shit going on. Detective John Miller, who worked on the case, said that they then came to understand that they actually had a very on-again, off-again relationship.
01:28:53
And that was stormy. And that sometimes Van Sickle went and lived in Carson when he was not living with Larry.
01:29:01
So it wasn't full time like everybody kind of thought. Can I stop having on again, off again relationships, people?
01:29:08
Just off again? Just off it. If that's what you're going through. Off the relationship.
01:29:13
Okay, well, Vince and I off again once. And then on again and again. Everybody does.
01:29:17
You're allowed one time. Sure. Otherwise, your friends are so sick of you talking about it.
01:29:22
If it's on again, off again, it just is. Everybody knows it's a dead in the water situation.
01:29:28
You're just like, you're needy. You just can't let it go. Okay. Advice from Karen and Georgia.
01:29:34
There's so much. Don't listen. But as they're looking into it, they also find that Larry Austin has a bit of a murky past himself.
01:29:45
In 1983, he was convicted of one count of grand theft as a result of an embezzlement case at a company that he worked for.
01:29:54
And he actually served 22 months in state prison And then also they start to look into his ownership of the theater because Dorothy Hampton who owned it the widow John Hampton she being in the convalescent home they didn track any money going to her from the theater even though she was the owner
01:30:17
So they were afraid that they, it looked like he had Dorothy Hampton's blessing in this reopening and basically in the ownership of it.
01:30:29
But they didn't have any, they didn't have any proof. She hadn't signed anything over to him that they could prove.
01:30:38
So they end up freezing the IRS and the LAPD end up freezing Larry Austin's assets and putting the theater in a conservatorship until they can figure out what's going on.
01:30:51
Because it's not even like, oh, he was killed for the theater because it might not have even been his to give to anybody.
01:30:59
So it turns out there's a break in the case. They put a sketch in the newspaper of the guy that held up the place.
01:31:06
and somebody sees that and comes forward to the police and tells the whole story, which
01:31:11
is Van Sickle hired this guy who ended up doing the murder. Um, and his name was, it turns out his name was Christian, Christian Rodriguez.
01:31:20
He was also 19 years old and Van Sickle hired him, uh, promised to pay him 25 grand to kill
01:31:28
Larry Austin and make it look like a robbery. Yeah. And that's why he also shot Mary Giles.
01:31:36
Right. Because it was like, oh, what would a robber do in this case? So he just fucking took another person out for free.
01:31:43
Well, Van Sickles said he was going to pay him an extra five grand to kill any, basically to make it look like a robbery and kill anyone else that was there.
01:31:53
Oh, that's horrible. I'm so glad Mary survived. Yeah. It's insane. It's so insane.
01:31:58
It's so fucking crazy. It's so heartless. Well, and what it was, was he found out he was named in Larry Austin's will as being the person that was going to inherit everything.
01:32:10
So he would have, but he apparently was in such debt and in like such financial straits.
01:32:16
He wasn't going, Larry Austin was 74 years old at this time. Yeah. And he couldn't even wait to inherit.
01:32:23
Yeah. He's like, I want all of it now. He was the projectionist the night of the murder.
01:32:30
he was there he came downstairs he was the one that hit the alarm that got the police there
01:32:36
when he went downstairs and found larry's body is such a creepy detail yes so he was there
01:32:42
pretending to be all upset and freaked out he told all the friends the stories and all the
01:32:47
friends were like we thought he was like completely traumatized and that this was
01:32:51
just as much of a thing against him perfect that he was there you know like it just seems like he's
01:32:58
If he wasn't there, I'd be like, where was he? But yeah. Anyways, it's kind of more proof that he was like right there making sure it all went.
01:33:09
So essentially he didn't pay afterwards. He didn't pay Christian the money. Don't do that.
01:33:16
Yeah. And so that's why that guy, whoever the anonymous person was that came forward,
01:33:21
was basically someone who knew Christian Rodriguez and was like, he was supposed to pay this money.
01:33:26
He didn't do it. like, you know, um, so they, when they go find Christian Rodriguez, of course, Rodriguez completely
01:33:33
turns on, um, James Van Sickle. Uh, so in April of 1999, Christian Rodriguez is found guilty of
01:33:42
murder and sentenced to life without, um, parole. And he was also convicted of the attempted murder
01:33:48
of Mary Giles. And, um, Van Sickle was also sentenced to life without parole. Neither of
01:33:56
them got the death penalty um and mary giles survived and testified against christian rodriguez
01:34:05
in court she's like that's the man that shot me two times in the chest jesus insanely she's a
01:34:11
badass insane so when all that happens like the cops come to flanagan and they ended up the cops
01:34:20
talked to them were like, are you in on it? No. Because your friend plan again. Yes. They,
01:34:25
the cops came almost immediately after the fundraiser because they're like, how come you're
01:34:31
giving money to this guy? And they're like, oh, we're trying to be good neighbors. They're
01:34:35
immediately like looped in on it and have to basically go like, yeah, we don't know him. We
01:34:39
just thought we'd be nice. Yeah. It does look like they're like, yeah, let's start a fundraiser.
01:34:43
Let's get more money for you or whatever. Kind of in on it. I mean, they had to prove they weren't,
01:34:47
They had nothing to do with it and didn't really know the guy, which is one of my favorite.
01:34:51
Like when Flanagan told me that story, I was crying laughing because he's like, we're like basically faking it and trying to be nice.
01:34:58
And like, like, sure, of course we care. Yeah. And then immediately they're just like, they're like, we just started this business.
01:35:04
Yeah. And now we're under investigation for murder. Yeah. Now we're in on it. I love it.
01:35:09
One of the saddest things and the final thing that I put at the end of this is in his court file, there was a forgery charge that James Van Sickle had that they had a letter from Larry Austin attached to it that was attesting to James Van Sickle's good character.
01:35:32
Trying to get him out of the forgery charge. Because he loved him. Because he really did love him.
01:35:37
that's so sad it's very sad i want to see photos of them uh i'll look it up yeah you can me and my
01:35:45
photos man you sure do use my fucking imagination um yeah wow that's amazing because i everyone
01:35:55
knows that murder it reminds me of the zanku chicken murder where it's like there's this like iconic place in LA and it's like, here's this fucking insane story behind it.
01:36:04
Yes. And there are people like, there was a guy that was trying to make a documentary about Larry
01:36:11
Austin because of, it was that kind of those early days of like, back when, you know, Larry
01:36:17
Austin would be like, everyone would know who he is and he'd have a website these days. But back
01:36:21
then it was like, you had to be, that was back in the, you know, I liked them first days where
01:36:27
Everything was word of mouth. Yeah. If you like something cool, it's because it was a person told you about this secret underground
01:36:32
thing. Yeah. That you had to stumble upon and know about like comic book shops and all these record
01:36:37
stores. And yeah. So there's this guy that was and this is in the episode of Demons and the City of Angels.
01:36:43
There's a guy that was trying to make a documentary about Larry Austin for years.
01:36:47
And he was a big fan of the silent movie theater. And he got killed. This is before.
01:36:51
And he would be like, I just want to like follow you around and whatever. So this guy was there to attest because he had started this documentary and he was kind
01:37:01
of there. He knew all the players. He like knew everything that was going on. That's crazy.
01:37:06
Yes. Yeah. And did he ever finish it? Cause what a fucking crazy finish to it. I mean, I don't know.
01:37:14
Uh, I mean, yeah. Cause now the finish is, oh, that guy got murdered. So I don't think, I don't think so.
01:37:20
Probably not. Yeah. That's not what he wants. That's not the direction he wanted to go.
01:37:23
I mean, it's so horrifying. But I mean, also, if he did, that would be kind of crazy.
01:37:29
It'd be like, guess what happened? Because to me, the creepiest time is after someone gets murdered and before anybody finds out who did it, there's all these people who are pretending.
01:37:39
And it's like this guy, James Van Sickle, had to pretend to be the heartbroken, shock, traumatized boyfriend for four months, like basically up until for months.
01:37:53
Who can do that? Yeah. Those people are scary. Yeah. Well, if you don't have a conscience, then it's easy.
01:38:00
Right? Yeah. Yeah. Anyway. Oh, shit. That was great. Thanks. Thank you for sharing.
01:38:06
Thank you for sharing, Karen. Thank you for listening. Yeah. My pleasure. Okay, we're back, Karen.
01:38:17
Any updates on this story? There are some. So not long after this episode aired in November of 2017, CineFamily, the movie theater, formally shuttered.
01:38:28
This was due to financial problems is what the official story was, but it's also linked to the allegations that we talked about in that episode.
01:38:36
Certain members of leadership had sexually harassed and assaulted staff and volunteers, created a toxic work environment, and it kind of blew up from there.
01:38:45
In late 2019, there was a brief attempt to rebrand the theater as the Fairfax Cinema.
01:38:50
But of course, then COVID hit and it didn't really matter. The theater closed again.
01:38:57
And then in late 2020 interestingly a streetwear company called Braindead took over the space So you know how there all those shoe stores and all that stuff on like Fairfax there that are kind of near Cantor that that what that whole area is known for now So now a streetwear company owns the movie theater and they host screenings there
01:39:17
regularly now today. Wow. I'm curious to see what it looks like. Well, grab your skateboard
01:39:22
and your backwards hat and let's go down there. My sneakers. What do the British people call them?
01:39:26
my trainers. Yeah, grab your trainers and your boot. If you drive up Fairfax on a Saturday or
01:39:32
Sunday morning, there's always a line for some new shoe drop outside. It's like around the block.
01:39:40
It's insane there. The first time I felt officially old, like, oh, I'm no longer young,
01:39:44
was driving by one of those lineups and being like, what are they doing that for? Is that the
01:39:50
movies? What is their celebrity? Or having no idea. I will tell you, though, it's not about age
01:39:55
because Vince woke up at 4 a.m. the other day to get in a virtual line for a fucking shoe drop.
01:40:01
Like, if you're in it, you're in it. And I appreciate that. That's right. He's a big shoe hound.
01:40:05
He's a big clothes horse. Yeah. What do they call him? Sneaker head? A sneaker head.
01:40:12
A drooler for shoes. He wears shoes. He loves a shoe. So let's head back into the episode real quick
01:40:17
for Good Things of the Week. Happy things this week. Oh, yes. What you got? This is super dumb, but I think it's a small, like there's so many things I wanted
01:40:31
to do to fix my house. And most of them are very large. And so I do that thing where if I have a
01:40:37
bunch of things to do, I don't do anything because it all becomes very overwhelming.
01:40:40
Oh my God. Every, yes. Right. So you're just like, so don't do any of it. Don't do anything
01:40:46
because, Oh, it's so hopeless and blah, blah, blah. How do you pick one thing? Yeah. Right.
01:40:50
Cause I'm like, Oh, I need to repaint my house. I need to fix. There's tons of stuff that I need
01:40:55
a contractor for it. Oh my God, don't do it. But instead, I was getting other shit
01:41:03
at Target. This is not a commercial. But I found a lamp at Target. Like just a standing lamp to go
01:41:10
into my front room where there's never good light. Be careful of light in your house and in your surroundings.
01:41:17
This is freaking me out. Go on. Okay. Did we get the same lamp? A, my thing that made me
01:41:23
happy this week was going to Target at 8am. this morning. No. It's a bee and my car
01:41:27
is a standing lamp. No. Is it brass colored? Yes. A clear shade? We got the same lamp.
01:41:33
A clear shade? No. See through glass shade? No, I saw that one though. I got the one that looks basically
01:41:39
like a desk lamp. What the fuck? Yes. How do we... Okay, because, well, here's the thing.
01:41:44
Our periods are synced and our targets are synced and our lamps are synced now. This is our new life. This is our life.
01:41:51
Hi. You're my husband. Hi, my wife. um I was just gonna say that little change of just trying to make it look slightly nicer in
01:42:00
the room I'm mostly in yeah it puts me in a great mood and and because I did that when I got home
01:42:07
from Toronto I looked at the pile of mail on my counter which is just I assume it supposed to be there and it just like it gets kind of high And then I go like this and it gets really high again I got rid of all of it
01:42:19
Girl, I need to do that. Yep. And that's how I found that check. Remember when I texted me, I'm like, Hey, I should rip this up. Right. But I want to double check that because it was like laying on top of that pile.
01:42:29
What the fuck, man? Clear your piles, guys, clear your piles and get like one new thing that's going to make you feel good.
01:42:37
light you see this place at night it's so dim and it compresses the shit out of me yeah like
01:42:42
yeah oh let's get that lamp up here yes help me carry it steven go grab that lamp so wait so i
01:42:48
just stole yours because that was gonna be yours this you know what my happy thing is that we just
01:42:53
did that yeah we just did that samezers that our period sank this week i know that's gross everyone
01:42:59
tmi but i got so excited and had to text you is that gross i wrote back i'm so sorry in the
01:43:07
she wrote back the ultimate sign of friendship. I was like, I mean, yay. That all it means is like, we're spending quality time together.
01:43:15
So much time. Yeah. Yes. Oh, nice. I love it. That was great. Now I want to set that lamp up right this second.
01:43:21
Oh my God. Also, don't be afraid to buy like a 30 watt light bulb. Yeah. Because everything's 60 and it's too bright.
01:43:27
Okay. I got it. I got it. I got it. Look how many. I have 18 vintage lamps in here and they're all dim.
01:43:32
Yeah. Well, also because you've got the shades dark in it. They're like those huge shades that your grandma had.
01:43:39
Yeah. That's what I have too. Okay, we're back. Karen, did you ever make that room beautiful or did you move?
01:43:48
I can't remember. I think I moved away from that room, so I no longer had to make it beautiful.
01:43:53
But I really love the recurring, we got the same lamp element of our lives. It's just like, wait, you got that lamp, I got that lamp too.
01:44:01
It's crazy. Our lamps are in sync. I love that. It's so funny. So, okay, so this episode was originally titled The Finch.
01:44:08
And if you were naming it today, let's pick a couple of our favorites. Of course, we have to call it Rocket Businessman.
01:44:13
That truly made me laugh out loud. Also, Seven Red Flags was me specifying hanging out with teenagers is Seven Red Flags.
01:44:22
I like that. I love New Math. Isn't that your dad thought your dad considered it New Math if he couldn't figure it out?
01:44:29
It was always New Math's fault. Exactly. Also, Hi, My Wife was a funny, funny moment.
01:44:35
I mean, it just kept coming. The hits kept coming in this one. That's, yeah, very funny.
01:44:39
And then, of course, there's no fixing. We're not cats. Appreciate that. Appreciate that one.
01:44:43
It's one to keep in mind in the forefront. The true wisdom that's just sitting in these old episodes.
01:44:48
You've got to mine it for the gold that's there. Speaking of cats and cookies, let's say goodbye from the pod loft back in 2017.
01:44:59
Cool. We've done it. We did it. we've done it. We've done it again. Thanks for listening everybody.
01:45:05
Thank you guys for listening. You're all fucking angel babies. We couldn't do it without you.
01:45:09
We're only doing it for you. There's nothing without you. This is all for you. We're nothing without you.
01:45:15
It all for you Stay sexy And don get murdered Bye Elvis Hold on Give him a second Elvis
01:45:26
A cookie? Here he comes. There he is. Look all sleeping. What you doing, sleepy?
01:45:32
Elvis, want a cookie? Want a cookie? I like the first quiet one. If audiobooks are your thing, or
01:45:43
if you've been meaning to listen to more of them, You should check out a podcast called Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club, hosted by Cal Penn.
01:45:52
Each episode spotlights standout audiobooks on Audible across all kinds of genres.
01:45:56
Sci-fi, comedy, romance, thrillers, and more. With Cal talking to guests who help break down what makes each story worth listening to.
01:46:03
It's a fun, easy way to discover your next great audiobook. Check out Earsay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:46:11
Goodbye. By now, you've probably heard of Reef. They've been making iconic sandals forever.
01:46:16
But what you might not know is that they also make ridiculously comfortable everyday shoes.
01:46:20
The Neptune is a lightweight everyday slip-on shoe with a crushed back heel, so you can wear it traditionally or step on the heel and wear it like a slide.
01:46:27
Lightweight, breathable, and easy to wear, the Neptune is the everyday shoe your feet have been waiting for.
01:46:32
I feel like so often you have to sacrifice cuteness for comfort, which is so annoying because I want both all the time.
01:46:38
Everything has to be cute, but also I'm old and I want comfortable shoes. So I feel like the Neptunes are the perfect answer to that.
01:46:45
Yeah, I love how cushy they are. They're like, they go with everything. They're really cute, but your feet are like on little clouds.
01:46:52
Check out the Neptune on Reef.com and redeem 15% off your first purchase. Goodbye.
01:46:58
Vacation planning should feel like a breeze, not a deep dive into countless travel sites searching for the best deal.
01:47:03
With Cheap Caribbean's Budget Beach Finder, you can search every destination and every date all in one search.
01:47:09
You'll save time and money with the Budget Beach Finder. Say goodbye to endless scrolling and tab hopping and hello to budget beach bliss at your fingertips.
01:47:17
Go to cheapcaribbean.com to try out the budget beach finder and see just how stress-free vacation planning should be.
01:47:23
Goodbye. Summer is all about saying yes, going out and bringing the mess home in your car.
01:47:29
Sand, grass and melting snacks will inevitably hitch a ride. But with WeatherTech, you can live life to the fullest.
01:47:36
WeatherTech floor liners, cargo liner and seat protectors allow you to keep up with your summer adventures without the worry.
01:47:41
WeatherTech is built for all of those summer things, allowing you the freedom to go all in.
01:47:46
WeatherTech is an American-made premium product built to last and easy to clean.
01:47:50
If you're going all out this summer, you need WeatherTech. Visit WeatherTech.com today.
01:47:55
Goodbye. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.
01:48:02
The future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age 14. Because next doesn't wait for an invitation.
01:48:07
And Hyundai doesn't either. Hyundai has always moved the future within reach. Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle.
01:48:14
And by engineering EVs with ultra-fast charging capability. And Hyundai continues doing it every day because the future isn't some far-off concept.
01:48:22
It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye.