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Visit Settlement.io or download our app and see what you might be missing. Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia.
00:01:42
Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows with all new commentary, updates, and insights.
00:01:46
Today, we're recapping episode 90, which we named Peak Experience. This episode came out on October 12th, 2017.
00:01:54
All right, let's listen to the intro of episode 90. Stephen, you have to be like a fucking on the street reporter when we're being so interesting.
00:02:07
Always be recording. A-B-R. Everyone knows this. Always be recording with us. Listen, if we're going to talk about Gerard Depardieu, we need everyone to hear it in the world.
00:02:18
Breaking news, America. Gerard Depardieu admits to drinking 14 bottles of wine a day.
00:02:24
God damn. Dude. His teeth must be more stained than mine. I mean, not stained. They're falling out.
00:02:30
I mean, perhaps, but he's so drunk, he doesn't give a fuck. I think that's how much Andre the Giant would drink.
00:02:37
Do you know that? And yeah, he'd eat like 12 chickens and drink like 17 six packs of beer.
00:02:43
I wish Vince were going to ask him because that's what he would actually do. Vince always hated red wine.
00:02:47
And then he found out that Andre the Giant loved Bordeaux. No, I'm sorry. He loved Beaujolais wine.
00:02:54
So we tracked it down and now we drink Beaujolais wine. because under the giant drinker you know that i love giants right no wait what it's one of my jams
00:03:03
i had never even thought of that as a thing yeah i'm obsessed oh welcome this is my favorite murder
00:03:10
the podcast i want to start at i'm obsessed with giants because the rest of it was all bullshit i
00:03:16
mean was it or was it some of the best podcasting we've ever done that anyone's ever done breaking
00:03:22
ground America. Robert Wadlow was in the Guinness Book of World Records. And if you are a child of
00:03:30
the late seventies, early eighties, like myself, before there was the internet, before there were
00:03:36
cell phones and smartphones, before there really even was that much TV, we just had four channels.
00:03:42
You did things like sit in your aunt's living room and read the Guinness Book of World Records.
00:03:47
Did that so hard, right? Fuck yeah. Twins on fat, twins on motorcycles, longest nails in the world
00:03:53
longest hair giants I love giants I had no idea Robert Wadlow was in the Guinness Book of World Records
00:03:59
he's the tallest man I think the tallest man from America yeah he was I was gonna say 7 foot 12
00:04:09
and this is my favorite murder podcast hello now you know it's really us that was like the pin number of proving that it's us
00:04:18
by me saying Robert Wadlow was 7 foot 12 Did I ever tell you my bra story when I was in elementary school?
00:04:24
No. I've had flattest chest forever. Right. In the Guinness book? Yes. As a matter of fact.
00:04:32
No, but when I was little, I had like no boobies like most kids do, but like sixth grade when girls start to get their boobies.
00:04:38
And so everyone was sitting around talking about like what bra size they have now.
00:04:42
And someone was like, I have a 34A and I have a this and that. And I went, well, I have a 35A.
00:04:48
And they were like, that's not a... I was so embarrassing. Yeah. You're just, you're just trying to compete.
00:04:53
I was just trying to get in there. Yeah. When you just look at my anyways. But now I just remind you, every girl in that circle did the exact same thing at a different
00:05:04
period of time. Yes. And that's what no one ever talks about. And sometimes that's why people are so mean is because people were mean to them when it
00:05:12
happened to them. So then when someone else does it, they descend like fucking. And they're so happy.
00:05:17
it's on someone, the attention's on someone else and not them. That's what it's all about. Yeah.
00:05:21
Do you know, this is the, this is the reason, and I wish I had had this when I was done is
00:05:24
how to laugh at yourself. Cause that just, no one can fucking make fun of you if you're like,
00:05:29
oh my God, I can't believe I said that stupid thing. Yes. It doesn't affect you. But I think
00:05:33
when you're at that age, like you can't laugh at yourself until you're around 37. In my, in my
00:05:39
experience. That's how old I am. Well, congratulations. Thank you. I'm now laughing
00:05:42
at myself. It's going to be so much fun. Oh my God. I can't wait. Um, but the thing is you have
00:05:48
to drink 12 bottles of wine a day. You have to day part do that shit. I got about three more
00:05:53
bottles to go today and I good Let get you there Go there Um I just love that people have these interests Giants for you that like you would never think of as a thing that you really into
00:06:06
Have you ever heard of Anna Swan, the giantess of Nova Scotia? Of course not. I'm a normal person.
00:06:11
She's humongous. She's humongous and amazing looking. And she married a giant. So they were they were traveling circus people because they were both huge.
00:06:21
I love them. And look her up because there's pictures where there are people standing in front of her looking up.
00:06:27
And she's like two grown men standing on each other hiding in a dress to get into the movies.
00:06:35
But I love her because apparently people, she got constant marriage proposals. Oh my God.
00:06:42
That's like part of her story where I'm just like, where's this world? Yeah. I want to go to that world.
00:06:47
I want to be a giant. Yeah. That's fucking cool. It's the best. Sorry, I didn't mean to go back to giants.
00:06:52
No, I want, that's all I wanted to talk about this whole time is your obsession with giants.
00:06:56
I really do love when people have this thing that they know all about and are obsessed with.
00:07:00
Yeah. It's pretty cool. It's so cool. Hey, this is my favorite part of the podcast.
00:07:05
That's Karen Kilgariff. I'm Georgia Hardstark. That's right. Okay. I have a couple of things this week to talk about.
00:07:10
Now we're really being serious. Before we start the murder. All right. Everyone can stop telling us to listen to Dirty John.
00:07:17
Yes, it's happening. It's a new podcast. It's happening. I've listened to an episode and a half.
00:07:21
Here's the two problems I have with it. One, Vince found out the ending and told me for some reason.
00:07:28
But I did think, I'm not going to listen. Just tell me. And he told me. Oh, then that's your fault.
00:07:32
It's totally my fault. And then the other thing is the women, the daughters who are being interviewed in the
00:07:39
podcast, they're from Irvine, which is where I'm from, and sound like every girl I went
00:07:43
to high school with. And it's giving me fucking PTSD. That's a serious problem. Yeah.
00:07:47
Yeah. You don't want that in your head. I don't. But it's a good story. And I'm excited to listen.
00:07:51
I mean, people are going crazy about it. Yeah. It reminds me of S-Town a little bit.
00:07:56
So I'm listening. I got my heart broken by S-Town. So Dear John, I mean, Dirty John, I'm going to need you to.
00:08:03
Dear John, you mean the Judd Hirsch series? Yes. People get obsessed. And here's what I love.
00:08:12
I sit back when those things hit and I just let them go. I let everything wash over.
00:08:17
and then I watch how the first wave is everyone going, this is amazing. You have to listen to it.
00:08:22
The second wave is always, it wasn't that good or it sucked. That's who I am. Right. And then, then I wait a little bit longer and then they'll always be someone that's like,
00:08:32
no, here's what, here's the situation, right? Nothing's perfect, but it's like, but it gets
00:08:36
you here and you'll like it because of this and it's this and it's interesting or whatever.
00:08:39
I think it's just, it's a different, that's such a, it's such a specific story that it's
00:08:45
not going to appeal to everyone. So them saying everyone's obsessed with it, we're just like,
00:08:49
no, some people aren't that into like, you know, fraud stories or whatever. Okay. The other thing,
00:08:54
and then Steven sent us this, like a couple of news links that some new photos from Jonestown
00:09:00
came out. Oh, right. And it's from when they're in Ghana. Right. And it's, it's basically photos
00:09:10
that look like, I think this is what most of them are like from a brochure. It's propaganda.
00:09:15
like trying to get people to move to Jonestown? Yeah, look how happy everyone is.
00:09:19
They're smiling, they're working, they're living on a commune, you know, and look how great everyone looks.
00:09:23
Although, you know, there's no such thing as race here and everyone works and everyone loves it
00:09:28
and the children are learning, but it's all fake. And then there's like one photo of,
00:09:33
there's a couple of photos from the day they all killed themselves. Oh, he killed them.
00:09:38
Yeah, he killed them. Right. And it's just fucked up. So if you're into that shit like I am,
00:09:44
some new pictures. sorry i had an update no please and this one lots of people have been sending and uh i appreciate it
00:09:52
we actually talked about it at la podfest but um the journalist kim wall that i did that story about
00:09:59
that the guy built peter madsen who built his own submarine and then she was a journalist who went
00:10:05
to do the story about it she rode around in this harbor with him and then she ended up disappearing
00:10:09
he said that she hit her head and that he dumped her body at sea. And then a bag of her body parts were found floating in the ocean,
00:10:20
including her decapitated head with no injuries on it, which means she did not hit her head.
00:10:26
And now Peter Mattson is being looked into for unsolved murders in Norway and Sweden.
00:10:34
I didn't know that. Yeah, that's brand new. that's a story on AP from 10 hours ago.
00:10:40
Oh my God, that's fucking... I love when... I mean, I don't love when... You know what I mean?
00:10:45
No, well, just that this is developing. This is unlike so many things where we're like,
00:10:50
and then we just never hear about it again. This is still a developing story. And I think it's because
00:10:54
so many journalists loved her and she was a well-respected journalist. And there's not a lot of murders there,
00:10:59
it seems like. In Norway or Sweden or wherever this... This was Denmark, I think, right?
00:11:07
Listen. Look. Look and listen. There's another show that's out. It's Mike Judge's Tales from the Tour Bus.
00:11:13
And this is completely off of any topic of true crime or anything. This is purely a joyous thing Mike Judge is making.
00:11:24
And it is people who toured, worked for, had anything to do with country singers of the past telling stories about working with them.
00:11:34
On the road. Yes, exactly. We're just in general. Yeah. The first episode is Johnny paycheck, who is the guy that wrote,
00:11:40
take this job and shove it. Oh yeah. And it's amazing. The guy was in, he was a lunatic.
00:11:45
It's animated for the most part with old footage as well. Yeah, it's yes, exactly.
00:11:50
So they'll get, they'll show you pictures of the album covers and some real things,
00:11:53
but then most of it is animation and it all these band members hairdressers relatives It so great stories So there so far they done Johnny Paycheck George Jones and Tammy Wynette
00:12:05
and Jerry Lee Lewis, which is crazy. Fucking married his child cousin. That's right.
00:12:13
She was 14. She's on it. She talks on it. Shut up. Yeah. I need to watch that. She's it's like she's in her 60s.
00:12:19
I just remember as a kid, Great Balls of Fire, that movie about the biopic movie.
00:12:24
Sure. It's not a thing. I loved it. We went and saw it at the movie theater. It was so great.
00:12:27
It was so much fun. I loved it. It was pedophile. Yeah. Why were they letting me watch it, parents?
00:12:33
Well, it was a different time. And that's why we're trying to make America great again.
00:12:38
Can I tell you what I did watch the other... Oh, sorry. That's okay. Speaking of pedophile, what I did watch the other day, and I hadn't realized how long ago
00:12:47
it had been since I watched it, was Silence of the Lambs. Oh, yeah. I've seen the ending a million times, but I hadn't actually watched the first part of it.
00:12:55
It's so good. I want to cry. Catherine Martin, FBI, you're safe. I didn't understand any of it back then.
00:13:02
You know what I mean? You mean when you first watched it? Yeah. I didn't understand how she figured out how he knew who Buffalo Bill was and how this and how that.
00:13:12
Because you know why? I looked up what year it came out and I saw it in the theater and have seen it a million times.
00:13:16
I was 11 years old. Oh, shit. When I watched Signs of the Lambs in the fucking theater.
00:13:21
That's hilarious. He threw cum at her face. Yes, he did. And I was like, what was that?
00:13:27
Georgia, the idea that you... I didn't know. How could they let me watch that? No wonder I have a fucking true crime obsession.
00:13:35
It's true. That's so funny because you were 11 watching that down in Irvine. I was 21 in Sacramento.
00:13:42
And we watched it at the Tower Theater. And I remember this thing rolling out in front of me.
00:13:47
and I had already read the book and I was watching it. Every second of it, I was just like,
00:13:52
this is the best movie ever. Like I was losing my mind. So happy. It was my Star Wars.
00:13:59
Amelie was my Star Wars, I think. Because I was like a hipster 19 year old. I love her.
00:14:03
I want to be her. That movie's amazing. That movie holds up. Oh, for sure. Love it.
00:14:07
So charming. Yeah. Sands of the Lambs. Thanks, mom and dad. You've ruined me. Now, look at me.
00:14:13
I'm the best. I pick I pick loving myself over photos do it I'm trying it's just a matter I had a really good day
00:14:23
of loving myself up until I opened Twitter and saw this picture where I'm like am I in denial
00:14:28
that I'm going bald and just not seeing it what the fuck happened and then I'm like oh that's right
00:14:33
it's my gray roots yeah fuck fuck it fuck everything fuck it fuck the world yeah fuck it
00:14:40
I mean, look, listen, my friend Molly said on the phone the other day, she was like, I
00:14:46
mean, the bomb's going to drop, right? So let's do this thing. She was talking about like, I was flirting with a barista or something like that.
00:14:55
And then I was just like, oh my God, you're so right. It's nothing matters. We're on a clock here.
00:15:00
People, nothing matters, but water is currency. Water is currency. Let's have some peak experiences before things go to shit.
00:15:08
You know what I mean? I think that experience is something like someone on their way to Burning Man would say.
00:15:14
Totally. We're about to have a peak experience. Yeah. Let's try to get out there every day.
00:15:19
And if your peak experience is drinking nine bottles of wine, do it. My peak experience is staying at home and chilling out and watching.
00:15:27
Oh, I paid. Oh, my. Okay. Last thing. I swear to God. Vince was gone all week out of town.
00:15:33
So I was like going to be my fucking natural self, which is turns out the most disgusting
00:15:37
that person. The sheets had been taken off before we left and I didn't ever put sheets on my bed.
00:15:45
I just slept on the random sheets I threw on top of... So you were kind of squatting in your own house?
00:15:52
I was squatting. I'm gross. It was terrible. And then one night I was like, I'm staying home
00:15:56
and drinking whiskey and I want to watch Cold Case Files. And then I get a text from Vince saying,
00:16:01
you're watching Cold Case Files? And I realized it was because I had just spent $20 on season one
00:16:07
of Cold Case Files on our Amazon and it's under his name. And so it emailed him to let him know
00:16:12
that his wife just spent $20 to watch season one of Cold Case Files. Of a show that probably if you
00:16:20
put it into your DVR, it would bring up 29 episodes of it. If you go to YouTube, it's like,
00:16:25
here's everything for free. And you're like, no, I'm going to pay premium. No, I want Bill Curtis
00:16:29
to have that money. I think he needs more brown leather jackets and I'm going to be the one that
00:16:33
buys them for him. You know what? I owe him. He has narrated our lives. He's narrated my life.
00:16:39
He has brought a somber and reasonable attitude to some terrible, terrible murders and crimes. And he's been there for us. Thank you. Bill?
00:16:51
I mean, he let us know that justice was right around the corner. Oh my God. I love Cold Case Files. Okay. Was he the host of Cold Case Files?
00:17:01
You know what's weird? Danny Glover was originally the host. No. What the fuck? Excuse me.
00:17:06
Swear to God, except fact check that, Stephen. Like swear to almost, I think. But you know, it's going to be some actor that's like super similar, but I can never remember who's whom.
00:17:15
Yes. Who's whom, though? You do remember to say whom. I mean, I'm not that stupid.
00:17:20
Oh, I should say this. The Northern California wildfires are intense and crazy. and huge swaths of where I grew up is burning down.
00:17:31
I'm obsessed with those photos, which is terrible, but in a fucking... The comparative ones of the neighborhood
00:17:37
and then the neighborhood's gone. And it's just like the thought of your house being turned to fucking ash.
00:17:42
Yeah, and those people, the people that it's like, there's a neighborhood slightly north
00:17:47
of the main city of Santa Rosa, but Santa Rosa is the next city up from Petaluma.
00:17:51
That's where we used to go to the mall to get clothes for school. You had to go to the next city And the neighborhood it like a little bit north of that of the main city The people were woken up at one thirty in the morning with people just saying
00:18:07
run. They didn't get any kind of emergency. Like it was just panic, grab whatever you could and run
00:18:13
out of your house as you're as like the flames were coming. Do you ever think about like aside
00:18:18
from pets, obviously what you would grab? Yeah, it's pictures. I think mostly like my computer
00:18:24
that's the good thing is my sister started packing tonight just in case because there's still more
00:18:30
fires and everybody now just wants to be ready but we were like everything's on the computer like
00:18:36
pictures are now on computers like there's a couple old things but like i mean i love my shit but it's
00:18:41
all just tchotchkes it's all that's what i said to my sister i go we can replace anything in your
00:18:46
house grab anything that's irreplaceable if you can yeah i guess there's a photo album i don't
00:18:53
whatever. You guys stay safe. And we are back into 2026. My God, we're just talking about a
00:19:04
brand new podcast called Dirty John. I can't imagine how Vince spoiled that for me. Like,
00:19:12
how did he know about it? Had he already known about the story? I doubt it. I'm the true crime
00:19:17
one in the family. I don't know. But he just had the instincts where he's just like, yeah,
00:19:23
It's that guy. That guy's no good. Definitely. Speaking of being that guy no good,
00:19:27
Gerard Depardieu is just like a fucking trash monster, it turns out. Yeah, that didn't all pan.
00:19:33
It's so weird having a show this long. Yeah. You can literally look back for like 10,
00:19:38
almost 10 years before and be like, yeah, that didn't, that actually didn't pan out so well.
00:19:43
That, that didn't age. Us talking about Gerard Depardieu? No, it did not. Him, us, nobody's getting out of here alive.
00:19:51
I'm telling you that right now. Danny Glover, no way. No, Danny Glover has nothing to do with Cold Case Files.
00:19:56
What the? Where did I get that from? That would be great, though. Can I suggest it?
00:20:00
I mean, I think you were thinking of a different show and a different host, but that was what it was like back then, I'm saying.
00:20:06
That we just didn't know anything, and that's okay. We really were like, oh, well, whatever.
00:20:13
Throw it out there. Steven, keep recording, because this is brilliant information that they need, Steven.
00:20:19
Still very funny. Also, sorry if anybody's going to call me a latecomer to this whole Giants trend bullshit.
00:20:26
That's so crazy. How hilarious is that? We were just talking about it. But I was like, you like, I didn't know you like Giants.
00:20:33
What? That's right. We can't remember everything from 10 years ago. That's hilarious.
00:20:39
It's actually perfect timing because MFM Animated's newest episode is literally called
00:20:44
Karen Loves Giants. I won't drop it. It's on our YouTube page at youtube.com slash exactly right media.
00:20:52
Well, you shouldn't because it's new information for me every couple of years. Yeah, that's well, it's good to update other people about our little,
00:20:59
our little preferences and our peccadillos. Sure. Is it peccadillos? Peccadillos?
00:21:05
I was just thinking, imagine if they came out with an Italian giant, I'd lose my mind.
00:21:10
They came out with an Italian giant. There's a line. There's just a fucking... Apple comes out with an Italian giant that you can have at your home.
00:21:19
If you know an Italian giant, please email us at MyFavorite. I'm sure there's one out there already.
00:21:25
There's gotta be. They make them in every flavor, right? It's like, there's gotta be.
00:21:29
Someone do something about my needs being met. I have other stuff to do and I can't do it for myself.
00:21:35
It explains a 12-foot tall skeleton now, though, like really well. Yeah. You know?
00:21:41
It's all been in there. Yeah. Just waiting. I like miniatures and you like enormous things
00:21:46
Oppositesies We're gonna get into this episode now And we absolutely should because oh man
00:21:52
I can remember you telling me this Episode and the information that you were Giving about the real
00:21:59
Story behind the Amityville horror murders Are you first or am I first? I think it's you, Susan
00:22:10
I think it's me too Oh yeah Yeah. Yeah. Are we counting that? Yeah. We're counting what happens to us. We're counting what
00:22:20
we decide. Yeah, exactly. And I'm going to go first. All right. Have a peak experience with this.
00:22:26
All right. It's October. Everyone's favorite month. It's fucking Halloween time. Listen,
00:22:33
let's do this. It's like you're giving me a sales pitch in a voice that says I'm not
00:22:38
interested. I'm not interested in working with you. Well, I did this murder because I wanted to
00:22:42
do it and then I realized I could fucking tag it on to the fact that it's Halloween time oh yeah
00:22:47
but it's very loose okay so I don't I'm not I'm not married to it you know what I mean got it
00:22:54
and I also watched this the way I actually did think of doing this is I watched this
00:22:58
movie on Netflix like a Netflix movie that I had heard nothing about called Little Evil that
00:23:04
ended up being so fucking good oh good it's basically if the kid from um like if satan's
00:23:12
spawn the spawn of satan had a mother and the mother was evangeline lily and she married
00:23:18
a man who became the spawn of satan's stepdad and it is um adam scott oh and it's so charming and so
00:23:28
cute and funny i don't know how this just like went under the radar and bridget everett is like
00:23:32
his sidekick. Wow. It's such a charming movie. So it's like it's it's like comedy.
00:23:38
It's a dark comedy. That's awesome. It's so good. So please go watch it. And then I thought, oh, that's fun.
00:23:43
So here is. Here's the story, the real story behind the Amityville horror. Yes. You ready for this?
00:23:54
OK, just really quick. And I know I've said this a thousand times. The hardback book of the Amityville Horror.
00:24:04
So it's shaped like a paperback, but it had a hard white cover. Was the book in my grammar school library that I checked out so many times Sister Rita Rose got mad at me.
00:24:14
I forgot that it was that book and now I feel like I've stolen a murder from you.
00:24:18
You have not? Okay. And I celebrate this and I'm thrilled. Okay. I want to tell baby Karen, little Karen, about this story.
00:24:26
Well, she's right here. Well, I'm going to tell her right now. No, I don't want you to.
00:24:30
That's what she's like. All right. So, of course, everyone knows about the Amityville Horror, the movie.
00:24:37
It's this haunted house that's like, you know, inhabited by Satan and all this bullshit.
00:24:45
But I don't know. People maybe don't know that it's actually based on an actual story that happened before the haunting.
00:24:52
That's right. I was a huge fan of the book. Me and Sister Rita Rose. what I loved about the book is the fact or this story, whether or not it's true,
00:25:00
is it starts out as, oh, they find out this horrible thing happened in their house,
00:25:05
but then they find out that there's something else going on. So they, but that could completely be for like the book and movie.
00:25:12
Who knows if that part is real. I'll fucking tell you. Sweet. Yeah. Here we go. Yeah.
00:25:17
All right. So the family, the DeFeo family, they consist of Ronald DeFeo, senior, he's 44 and his wife,
00:25:24
Louise, 42. Ronald is a car salesman at the family dealership. Super fucking successful.
00:25:30
Mob ties? Maybe. Perhaps. Probably. Pretty much definitely. I mean, don't all Italians have mob ties?
00:25:36
Oh my God. Oh no, she just defended a quarter of our listeners. How dare you? So the random fucking car dealership is doing so well in Brooklyn that the DeFeo family
00:25:53
is able to move from their apartment in Brooklyn to a three-story colonial in the charming town
00:25:58
of Amityville on Long Island, about an hour outside of the city. Do the whole thing in that voice.
00:26:04
Okay. I was trying to be a real estate agent. Oh, that's fun. That's why you put that neckerchief on.
00:26:12
And bake some cookies. Yep. All right. They chose this home. And as you saw on the cover
00:26:19
of the Amityville book. It's a piece of Americana, two stories, plus an attic. It's huge and sprawling.
00:26:25
There's a boathouse right on the Amityville River. And out front, they put a sign post
00:26:30
that says, Hi, Hopes. Basically naming the house. So it's this gorgeous, huge colonial house.
00:26:38
It has eyes. It has. It looks like it has eyes because it has these two windows up in the attic
00:26:43
that look like eyes. Yeah. So the oldest of the DeFeo children is Ronald Butch DeFeo Jr.
00:26:52
He's born on September 26, 1951. Ronald Sr., the dad, is a domineering man. He would fucking pick fights with his wife and children.
00:27:02
He was physically abusive. And the target of a lot of this abuse was Ronald Jr. I'm going to call him Butch,
00:27:10
partly because he was the eldest, so there's a lot of expectations on him. And it's said that he would beat the shit out of him.
00:27:14
He'd throw him against a wall and hit his head. So there's the head injury aspect.
00:27:18
that we all know and love. So as Butch gets older, he starts fighting back. And he's also known as a bully at school.
00:27:27
He's just like angry, mean kid. Bullies get bullied. Bullies are bullies because they've been bullied.
00:27:34
Exactly. So the parents, they try to take him to Butch to a psychiatrist. He fucking refuses to go.
00:27:45
And so instead they're like, let's just appease and placate him. And they start buying him anything he wanted and giving him money.
00:27:52
Like, that's their solution. I bet it worked, right? I mean, you know what? The only way we would know if someone would do it to us.
00:27:58
That's when we should try it. That's all I'm saying. What a bizarre plan. I mean, like, because I understand that they were rich, but that I feel like never in the history of man has that worked.
00:28:11
Oh, clearly it's never worked. But I understand, especially back in the 70s. It's like, well, here's what we'll do.
00:28:16
if he's never unhappy, he's never going to get mad. Right. You know? Right. And so they start
00:28:23
buying him a bunch of shit, including a $14,000 speedboat when he was 15. $14,000 today would buy
00:28:31
you a nice car back then. Can you imagine this? Okay. So these people, something happened and
00:28:37
they're swimming in money. Why would the, the son, the son's owner of a car dealership in Brooklyn
00:28:44
have that much fucking money? I mean, quality salesman. He's really friendly and he's got a couple pinky rings.
00:28:52
Not just one like normal car salesman, but a couple. Well, that's the other thing too
00:28:55
is he looks like Tony Soprano. Yeah. He's got that big, bulky, you know, intimidating presence.
00:29:04
He's kind of, you know, he speaks like a Long Islander. Sure. Which I will refuse to do.
00:29:10
Hey, the parkway's over by my pocketbook. It's a lot of that kind of shit. Why is there a parkway by his pocketbook?
00:29:16
Those are the two words that remind me of Long Island. Because my friend Vicky, I used to work with my friend Vicky, who is from Long Island.
00:29:23
And those are the first two things I heard her say on one of the first days that we worked
00:29:27
at Ellen together, where I was like, where are you from? There's no such thing as a parkway out here.
00:29:33
Yeah. And pocketbooks? Wallets. Stop it. Calm down. She also used to always say food shopping.
00:29:38
I'm going to go food shopping. Where I'm like, that's just shopping. You know, I don't care.
00:29:44
That's a specified. Yeah. No, we get it. It doesn't matter. I had, I just got my food shopping done.
00:29:49
How about you? I just went shopping for food. How about you? Don't tell me about your fucking errands.
00:29:54
Just how about we all do it Listen I love you Italians Vicky and Long Islanders Vicky Ernst Apologies in advance
00:30:05
Boop, boop, boop. Okay. Of course, not surprisingly, it only made things worse. And by 17, Butch had become an LSD and heroin user.
00:30:15
Oh, which is like heroin in the 70s. Crazy, right? That's when it was really organic. It's just a gorgeous golden brown.
00:30:24
It was like a pure trip. It was more of, it was what the Native Americans did around that area.
00:30:30
It was like a peace pipe, but with heroin injected into your arm. I do feel like though people were so naive about drugs in the seventies.
00:30:37
Like I, my friend Jerry had a story about doing, I think they called it window pane,
00:30:42
which is that intense acid from the seventies. She said they were tripping for days and every day they saw the whole world in a different
00:30:50
color. So the first day it was red and the second day was purple. And I was kind of cool, but I don't want that.
00:30:56
It sounds, it makes me sick to my stomach. No, I was thinking that too. It's just like, won't ever end.
00:31:01
And that was just like, because they walked home from school and a guy was like,
00:31:04
Hey, do you want to buy this acid? Oh, he loved it. He loved making them trip that hard.
00:31:09
Oh, fuck that. Crazy. Okay. Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. I ate crayons as a joke once when I was on LSD.
00:31:14
Let's not talk about it. my friend and I were like, let's chew these crayons up and see what happens when we spit
00:31:21
them out. And that would be really pretty. Oh my God. Cut this immediately. Was it pretty?
00:31:25
It was gorgeous. I wore a vinyl dress to my own Christmas party and I was answering the door and
00:31:30
people were like, are you okay? And then I realized it was because my, I was so cold.
00:31:34
My lips were blue, but I was like, this outfit is amazing. I look like I'm from space.
00:31:40
Hosting a party on acid. Not a good idea. Never ever. Don't do drugs. Okay. Don't do drugs,
00:31:45
everybody um expelled from school as well so it so at 18 he's expelled from school and they're like
00:31:50
you know what you know what'll fix him let's give him a job at the family car dealership yes let's
00:31:55
do that there it is let's not give him a lot of responsibilities and let's give him a large salary
00:32:00
boom sorry you're reading me the donald trump story what's happening oh political you better be careful i liked them till they got political
00:32:10
my fucking mom okay so he's the boss's son asshole that's coming in on a full salary but
00:32:18
doesn't have to do anything the boss's son the and then the boss's boss's grandson oh and he's
00:32:24
just like pay me motherfuckers how about you pay me and he looks like he looks and he's probably
00:32:30
the original brooklyn hipster he looks like this brooklyn hipster sideburns what more do you need
00:32:37
sideburns, beard, like 70s garb, but it's because it's in the 70s. Right. You know what I mean?
00:32:42
It's not just like fucking bed bug used outfits from a thrift store. Right. It's the real deal.
00:32:49
It is real. So, okay. But, but, but he's, he uses the money, the salary he makes to buy guns, alcohol, and
00:32:59
drugs and continues his shitty behavior, which included runs with the law, blah, blah, blah.
00:33:04
Okay. Once during a fight between his, so his mom and dad were fighting, meaning the dad was
00:33:08
like fucking bullying the mom. Butch points a 12 gauge shotgun at his father and pulls the trigger.
00:33:15
The gun malfunctioned and didn't fucking shoot. Oh my God. So this guy's out of his mind.
00:33:22
So in the weeks before the murder, this thing happened where, but it's 1974, Butch is given
00:33:28
the job of depositing more than 20 grand in, from the car dealership to the bank.
00:33:33
They're like, go to the bank, deposit this. Use your boat. Use your boat, which is like, why are you giving this kid that money?
00:33:39
And not surprisingly, he reports that he had been robbed at gunpoint while he was waiting
00:33:44
at a red light. But he had actually planned the mock robbery. And at first, the dad seemed to believe it.
00:33:50
But when the police showed up to question him, which is like, stick with your story, bro.
00:33:54
He fucking loses his shit and is super pissed off and refuses to cooperate. And then so his dad realizes something isn't right and he thinks his son is up, was up to it.
00:34:06
And Butch threatens to kill him. To kill the dad again? Yeah. Now, a week later, cut to the early morning hours of November 13th, 1974.
00:34:19
The family is sleeping and Butch goes around with a shotgun. So the first shot, he goes into his parents' room.
00:34:28
They're sleeping on their stomachs. The first shot hits Ronald Sr. in the back, tearing through his kidney and exiting through his chest.
00:34:37
He fired another round into his back and it pierces his father's spine and lodged in his neck.
00:34:43
He's dead. Then he shoots his mother twice as well. It shatters her rib cage, collapses her right lung.
00:34:52
And physical evidence shows that Louise's mother was awake when she was shot. Like she went to turn around to see what was going on.
00:34:59
They're both on their stomachs when they're found. Then Butch goes into his sweet baby brother's rooms.
00:35:06
Mark, who's 12, and John Matthew, who's nine, and shoots them both while they're face down in their beds.
00:35:13
And then he ends by shooting his sisters point blank versus Allison, who's 13. and he shoots her in the face
00:35:21
and then is young and she's killed instantly and then he turns on his sister Dawn
00:35:26
who's 18 and shoots her in the head blowing off the left side of her face. So fucking brutal
00:35:34
with a shotgun. So just after 3 a.m. in a span of less than 15 minutes Ronald Butch DeFeo Jr.
00:35:42
had brutally slain every member of his family. They were all found lying on their stomachs in bed
00:35:47
Butch showers trims his beard gets dressed in jeans and work boots and then he collects his bloody clothing and the rifle wraps them up in a pillowcase And on his way to work he disposes of the pillowcase and everything in it by tossing them into a storm drain I spelled that wrong
00:36:08
Tossing them into a storm drain. And that's where the clown from It was waiting?
00:36:12
That's the scariest thing I've ever heard in my life. Why did you say that? Well, that's what I think of when I think of storm drains.
00:36:19
Totally. That or that or JFK being killed because they arrested someone in a storm drain
00:36:25
right after it happened. No. Yeah. We'll get you know what? Maybe I'll do it one day.
00:36:29
Shit. I'd never heard that. Yeah. Every time I walk George, my dog, she if we walk, there's
00:36:37
a storm drain that we always walk by and she always has to go and stick her head down in it.
00:36:41
And every time I'm like, if that fucking clown from it is in there, I am going to lose it.
00:36:46
She's going to get her head chomped off. By what? A clown. She loves it in there.
00:36:52
So many smells. So many raccoons. Okay. Then tosses it in a storm drain, then goes to work at the car dealership at 6 a.m.
00:37:03
Oh, all by himself? Yeah. Yeah. Goes to work. At the family car dealership. At the family car dealership.
00:37:10
And I think they were like, what are you doing here at 6 a.m.? It's weird anyways.
00:37:14
He's like, you know me, Butch, how much I love working and getting along with people.
00:37:17
Want to get an early start. Come on. I got my boots on. My jeans. My beard is trimmed. So throughout the morning, he keeps
00:37:25
saying like, I don't know why my dad, my dad's not here yet. So he keeps calling home.
00:37:29
He leaves work around noon and he spends the day with his friends and to secure an alibi. He tells
00:37:35
them that, um, that he couldn't seem to reach anyone at home to let them know that he's like
00:37:40
trying and Hey, look, no one's, no one's answering. Yeah. He ends up at a bar real close in Amityville,
00:37:45
real close to his house and then is like, hey, guys, I'm going to go check on my family. It's so
00:37:50
weird that I haven't heard from them. And then at 630 that night, he burst back into the bar and
00:37:55
yells, you got to help me. I think my mother and father are shot. So Butch and a small group of
00:38:02
people from the bar went to the home and they found the whole family dead in their beds.
00:38:07
When the detectives questioned Butch about who could be a suspect in the murders, he told them
00:38:12
that he believed that a mafia hitman named Louis Fellini may have been responsible and that his
00:38:18
whole family was like in with the mob and that they had wronged the Fellini family in some way
00:38:23
and they were pissed off at him. So he then gives them the alibi of I've been gone all day. And
00:38:30
when I left the house this morning, my whole family was, I think they were still alive.
00:38:35
So they, the police take him into protective custody while they search for the suspect.
00:38:41
But when they searched the house, they found an empty box for a recently purchased .35 caliber Marlin gun.
00:38:48
It's for you gun people. In Butch's room. And when the timeline came together, it placed Butch at home at the time of the homicides, not after he left.
00:39:00
So when they question him, he begins to change the story. He says that Fellini had appeared at the house early that morning, put a revolver to his head and dragged him from room to room as they murdered his family.
00:39:13
Him and an accomplice murdered his family, making Butch watch. Then eventually under questioning, he broke down and confessed to killing his family, saying, once I started, I just couldn't stop.
00:39:24
It went so fast. on trial his defense lawyer William Weber tried to prove that he was insane saying that he heard
00:39:33
demonic voices that told him to kill his family but the psychiatrist for the prosecution
00:39:37
proved that he suffered from antisocial personality disorder which doesn't mean you're crazy the
00:39:44
illness made him aware of his actions but motivated by a self-centered attitude and even at one point
00:39:50
during the trial, he threatened to kill both his own lawyer and the judge. They put him on,
00:39:56
they put him on the stand and this dude is just like fucking crazy as shit. Yeah.
00:40:03
It seems like that's his solution to a lot of problems is I'll kill you. Yeah. Yeah. Which
00:40:09
really, you know, as we're learning is not, is a non-solution. It's this thing of like people
00:40:16
pretending to be crazy to get the verdict of insane. And it's like, no, you're just proving what a piece of shit you are.
00:40:24
And you're also understanding that you need to plot this out. So it makes you look sane because you understand reasoning and plotting.
00:40:33
Yes. There's not the insanity part, isn't there? But you are clearly either a sociopath or just the most rotten, spoiled child of all
00:40:44
time. Like, is that where spoiling children can get you? Yeah. Because that should be a PSA.
00:40:49
All those kids that are fucking screaming out loud in restaurants. It's like, get a hold of it now.
00:40:54
Yeah. Or you're going to go the route of the Mr. Butch to fail. Amen. Or at least something close.
00:41:00
And it's, or you're just annoying everyone else around you. And like, I'm trying to eat in peace.
00:41:05
Yeah. Just no screaming. How about the rule of no screaming? No screaming. And if your child is screaming, take them outside.
00:41:12
or how about you glare at your child no one wants you to hit them no but how about a good icy my
00:41:19
father used to stop us in our tracks with the look on his face oh my god like you've gone too far
00:41:23
well also he was very large and intimidating so i'm sure he only had to look at us we'll be like
00:41:28
and you just like yeah sit exactly where you're not going well stop right now yeah i love it
00:41:35
So on November 21st, 1975, the jury finds Butch guilty on six counts of secondary murder.
00:41:42
He sentenced to six consecutive life sentences. But all these questions, and this is like one of the reasons why this murder is still
00:41:49
big to this day and people still debate it when it's clear that he just this fucking crazy
00:41:53
dude on acid and heroin who was a piece of shit narcissistic asshole just killed his entire family There are things that are weird that make people question what really happened and think that it didn happen that way
00:42:06
So one of them, which I totally understand and want to know the answers to, is how did he shoot six people in four different rooms
00:42:14
without any of them waking up or trying to escape? And they're all on their stomachs when they're shot.
00:42:20
So no one turned over to be like, what the fuck was that? like they were drugged well that's what i thought too okay no drugs in any other systems really
00:42:30
period oh yeah and no neighbors heard the rifle blasts at all and this is a fucking rifle yeah
00:42:36
the defense experts conducted an experiment on the marlin rifle and found that it's report
00:42:42
report or report report report report it's spelled report guys it's just a report its noise
00:42:51
was so loud that it could be heard almost a mile away. It's a rifle. Yeah. So how did none of the neighbors hear it?
00:42:58
And you can see photos. They weren't that far away, the neighbors. They were like literally next door.
00:43:04
I mean, he must have done. I mean, like then did he put rum in something? I mean, like he must have affected them in some way, right?
00:43:11
But how did the neighbors not hear it either? Oh, oh, like silencer. No, nothing.
00:43:17
No, there's no silencer. There's no drugs in the system. alcohol, I doubt it either.
00:43:22
Well, but I mean, could there be a silencer that they didn't find? I don't know.
00:43:27
Yes. I'm putting it out there. I'm going to say yes. I'm putting it out there. Even though I don't know. Rightful silencer.
00:43:31
It's probably Satan. Could be Satan. Yeah. It is weird. Everybody's sleeping on their stomachs. Why isn't one person
00:43:39
sleeping on their side? Like a normal human being. The obvious answer to me is that he went from room to room
00:43:46
and was like, stay down, there's someone in the house. and like warn them that like, don't move.
00:43:53
I'm going to protect you. Maybe. But then why wouldn't the dad get up? And then why would the neighbors hear the shots?
00:43:59
Because he killed the dad first. He went and killed the dad and the mom, went into the kids room.
00:44:03
I was like, you guys stay in here. Something's happening. Oh, that's fucked. Okay.
00:44:08
Stay on your, why stay on your stomach? Stay on your stomach because I'm weird. You know what else?
00:44:13
He could have walked in the room and they were sitting up and he said, lay down on your stomach
00:44:17
and then shot them because he didn't want to see their faces when he killed them.
00:44:20
True. But he shot one of his sisters in the face. He did. Maybe he was particularly hateful of that sister.
00:44:26
Maybe. Which is, it is a thing that they fought a lot too. Dawn, the older sister who was 18.
00:44:31
Well, but then there's also the, oh, sorry, are you doing more theories? Which one are you going to do?
00:44:35
The theory that Dawn was his co-conspirator and she shot people. Let's go to that one.
00:44:40
Okay. Let's go to the tapes. so years it wasn't until years later though that ronnie changed his story again while he was in
00:44:48
prison and said that his sister dawn was involved in the murders now listen ron ronnie makes up so
00:44:53
many stories that you just they're all bullshit yeah they're all bullshit but here they are
00:44:58
um that she had actually planned the murders with him to kill their parents after they had a huge
00:45:04
fight with them. But they had no plans to kill the siblings. And then so she went to kill the
00:45:12
parents. And when he found out, Ronnie found out that Donna had also killed the kids, she was so
00:45:16
pissed off. He was so pissed off. She had wanted to eliminate them as witnesses that he wrestled
00:45:22
the gun from her and shot her in the head himself. So the only person he was guilty of killing was
00:45:29
this murderer his sister. I mean, that sounds like absolute bullshit. Absolutely.
00:45:35
I mean, it's just it sucks that we can't get any information about what their home life is
00:45:41
really like from anyone but DeFeo and secondhand you know, boyfriends and friends
00:45:47
saying what it was like. But from all their accounts, it wasn't good. Yeah. So who knows?
00:45:52
He and then it was reported during the original police investigation that traces
00:45:57
of gunpowder were found on Don's nightgown, indicating that she may have fired a weapon.
00:46:02
But I guess it's also proven that if someone shoots you at close range, you can get that as well.
00:46:07
Then he claims that his sister, Don, shot his father. Then says their mother, distraught over that, shot Don and her three youngest kids. Don killed the dad. The mother
00:46:23
killed Dawn and the other three youngest children, then shot herself. And then when,
00:46:30
when Butch found out he flies into a rage and fired one bullet at his wounded mother who had
00:46:39
just shot himself. So the only person he shot was the, like, it's just, but all that happens
00:46:44
way later. He said he makes these stories up later. No, no, I get it. I'm saying like,
00:46:50
the reason that doesn't fly is because of the laying down on the stomachs thing.
00:46:55
Yeah. Like all, you can't have that kind of chaos and then everyone end up in the same position.
00:46:59
I mean, it's just like such a far fetched theory. It's stupid. Like to believe it is idiotic, especially with only the fucking testimony of a fucking crazy
00:47:11
person who's trying to get himself away from any responsibility of what happened.
00:47:15
Yeah. It's a, it almost sounds like somebody, he like was sitting in jail bored and he's like,
00:47:20
Maybe they'll listen to me if I just make up a new story. Totally. Totally. So in 1975, let's get to the fucking haunting shit real quick.
00:47:27
Also total bullshit. In 1975. Now we're in a fight. Karen the Catholic. This is my favorite story.
00:47:38
You can't say it's bullshit. I'm sorry. It's my favorite. I know. I want to believe it so much too, but the more I'm reading, the more I'm like, oh.
00:47:45
I know. And the movie, when I was a kid, scared the shit out of me. I also looked up when that was made and I was like, nope, too young to have watched this.
00:47:52
What, like 82? Something crazy like that? I don't know. Steven, look it up because that would mean I was only two.
00:47:57
That's the Jim Rollin movie, right? Where he has the beard. and he's like super nuts.
00:48:01
It's a gorgeous movie. They keep going to that digital clock that it's like 3.12 or whatever time it was
00:48:07
that it happened. 3.15 or something. Yeah, and he keeps waking up. All right, so it's based on the fact
00:48:13
that George and Kathy Lutz, they buy, about a year after this, they buy the DeFeo house for 80 grand.
00:48:20
They knew about the murders, but they were like, it's cool, we don't believe in shit, Stephen.
00:48:25
79. The night wasn't boring yet. 79. nine so i watched it in the womb i i think i watched it on like a friday night yeah movie
00:48:35
classics or whatever no it's a because i remember watching it in my aunt's living room and i wouldn't
00:48:40
have watched it when i was nine yeah it was on tv we must have been home alone turned it on and
00:48:46
then i wanted to kill myself it was like a creature feature thing yeah you're just like what's this
00:48:50
yeah it terrified me remember the flies on the window the flies in the window wasn't there a
00:48:55
scene where like all the they were standing outside of the house when they had left it and
00:48:58
all the lights were flicking on and off and all this crazy shit was going on inside.
00:49:01
Yes. That scared me more than anything I ever had until I watched it. Wow. I mean, it's not that big of a deal.
00:49:10
I was a scaredy cat as a kid. It's a very big deal. Thank you. All right. Okay. So they buy the house.
00:49:17
They're like, no big deal. It's a, we got a good deal on it. So George and Kathy and Kathy's three kids from a different marriage moved in.
00:49:24
That doesn't matter. Then weird shit starts happening. What's happening? What? It doesn't matter.
00:49:30
I mean, I don't need to specify that she had three kids from a different marriage, you know?
00:49:35
It was just like... It was fine. Okay. Like, I don't want to shame her. Like, oh, she's a divorcee with three kids.
00:49:41
Like, I don't know why I did that. Like, I'm not judging her. It seems like information you're trying to convey.
00:49:48
I don't need to. It's unnecessary and it seems... So they were born out of wedlock?
00:49:53
No. I'm just kidding. listen let me tell you about her life okay she was a tramp
00:50:00
okay so they have a priest come to bless the house he said he felt an unseen hand slap him
00:50:10
yes in one of the rooms and heard a voice saying get out get out um they said that they had crazy
00:50:18
things happen like windows and doors would lock inexplicably and then open and close. A devilish
00:50:26
creature was seen outside the window at night. George was seemingly, quote, possessed by an evil
00:50:31
spirit and green slime oozed from the walls and ceiling. The family, there was apparitions of
00:50:40
hooded figures, clouds of flies. I think I already said that. Cold chills, personality changes,
00:50:45
sickly odors, objects moving about on their own. And then the youngest Lutz child, the little girl, became friends with a devilish pig,
00:50:55
evil demonic pig, imaginary friend called Jodi. Yeah. Jodi the pig. Jodi the pig.
00:51:04
Good old Jodi the pig. And then Kathy reports that she was often beaten and scratched by unseen hands and that one
00:51:10
night she was levitated off of her bed. Shit. And then George says his wife was physically transformed into an old woman with the face and hair and wrinkles of a 90 year old woman, which I'm like, that's insulting.
00:51:23
Keep that to yourself. You know what I mean? Like when Vince is like, you have too much makeup on, it's like, shut up.
00:51:28
You know what I mean? But it was demonic forces. It wasn't just like, I fear you.
00:51:34
I fear your old age in the future. Okay. And then he'd wake up at 3.15 every morning when the murders happened.
00:51:42
So just 28 days after they moved in, they fled the house. They left all their clothes in the closets and food in the refrigerator.
00:51:48
By the way, when they bought the house, it had all of the DeFeo's furniture still in it, except for the mattresses where the kids were fucking murdered.
00:51:55
No way. So what the fuck is wrong with you people? Like, redecorate, man. Like, the real estate agents, like, you can buy this as is.
00:52:04
Yes. And it's a bargain. You know that murder house in Los Feliz that's been fucking closed up forever?
00:52:10
Yeah. Like, can you imagine buying it? Like, well, this is great vintage furniture.
00:52:13
Just leave it. Yeah. No. Well, you'd have to really sage that thing. Yeah. You'd have to really clap those corners.
00:52:19
You'd have to light some sage and then light the house on fire with it and burn it to the
00:52:23
fucking ground. Go ahead and take that insurance check. Yeah. And buy yourself some mid-century modern furniture.
00:52:28
Then figure your shit out. Yeah. And stop. Buy a McMansion. Okay. So they end up publishing the account of the hauntings in a book that was written by that they worked on with Jay Anson called the Amityville Horror True Story, which we all know and love published as nonfiction in 1976, sold more than six million copies.
00:52:50
Film version comes out. Huge box office success. The Lutz has become famous. They later admit it was a hoax.
00:52:56
No. Yeah. When? Concocted with the help of Butch's defense lawyer, William Weber.
00:53:02
Remember him who was like, no, he's crazy. He heard demonic voices. So they said it wasn't ghosts.
00:53:09
They had all these fucking psychics and mediums come in. I was like, there's no ghosts here.
00:53:13
It's demonic possession, which I believe in ghosts. Sure, fine. Let's have it. But demonic possession is fucking stupid.
00:53:20
I don't know. Famous last words. So William Weber's angle was... Georgia just turned her head all the way around.
00:53:29
And then I vomited your face. William Weber remember was trying to say that is you basically using this account who by the way
00:53:39
they said that they came up with after a few bottles of wine oh my god I forgot that part
00:53:43
with the Lutzes that to like to prove that the house was possessed and so is Butch and he was
00:53:50
not responsible basically um yeah that why the family was killed so Ronnie still in prison all All of his appeals and requests to the parole board to date have been denied And that the Amityville horror and the murder of the DeFeo
00:54:06
families. It's so, the question of how he got those, that family killed in that manner is
00:54:14
so vexing and so fascinating. But which way that they're on their stomachs? Just that, like, yeah, how do you take a rifle and shoot six people or five people and have people not here and have the people not wake up and have, you know what I mean?
00:54:30
Like, that's the weirdest part. By the fifth person in the family, they've heard now four gunshots.
00:54:36
And they know that their older brother is fucking crazy. Like, that's the other thing, too, especially Don, who is 18 and grew up with him.
00:54:42
It's like they know their brother is crazy. And the whole town was like, as soon as they found out what happened, it was like, well, Butch did it.
00:54:49
Like everyone fucking knew he was crazy. Yeah. So. But in the Amityville horror book, they talk about this red room that's in the basement.
00:55:00
Yes. And how it's filled with evil and all this stuff. And I was so fascinated by this.
00:55:07
It's almost like they centralized where the evil was coming from. Yeah. And like people tried to go in there and they would get crazy headaches and all this weird
00:55:14
shit would happen. I was so fascinated by that. It doesn't exist. I'm sorry. It exists, Karen, in your mind.
00:55:22
Karen, it exists in your heart and soul. It's fine. I feel like at the heart of every story like that is people want to go like, oh my God,
00:55:31
the devil has been here and there's flies on this sewing room window. But at the end of the day, the truth of it is a spoiled asshole drug addict killed his family,
00:55:42
which is the thing people can't face because it's not a monster. It's a real person.
00:55:47
How could someone kill children? Right. Who had nothing to do. Totally innocent.
00:55:52
With any of this. It's like. So you'd rather be like the devil did it. Exactly. Yeah.
00:55:57
Yeah. It's easier. Yeah. Honey, I'm sorry. Oh, what a story. I love it. I can't believe I didn't do that.
00:56:08
I know. I can't believe I did. It didn't even cross my mind that that was the story.
00:56:13
I don't know why I was thinking of the omen as that story. Oh, yeah, because he's the, he's this, for you, the book you checked out.
00:56:20
I totally forgot. Oh, yeah. Girl. But I mean, it makes it even worse that you can check that book out.
00:56:27
It was so scary. It was horrifying. Oh, my God. It was very detailed. And I mean, the nun that was mad at me was the scariest part of all.
00:56:34
Right, right. Okay, we are back. Georgia, are there any updates for this case? There are.
00:56:43
It's so crazy because literally this past weekend, I've been sick. And so we've been watching, you know, old TV shows.
00:56:49
And we watched In Search of the Amityville Horror episode. How was it? It's great.
00:56:54
It's like, I think it's so recent to when the, quote, hauntings happen that he's in the house.
00:57:00
Like, Leonard Nimoy is in the house showing you around. It's crazy. I have to look that up.
00:57:06
I bet that whole series is so good to rewatch. Oh, my God. It's excellent. It's like comforting, you know, like the Twilight Zone is kind of.
00:57:13
Yeah. But anyways, yes, there are updates. In 2021, Butch died in prison. He was 69. He died
00:57:20
of natural causes, as far as we can tell, but no official cause of death has ever been made public.
00:57:25
And in 2019, yet another film inspired by these murders, The Amityville Murders,
00:57:30
was released. I've never watched any of the actual movies based on this. Have you?
00:57:36
Yes. I watched that one from 2019 in the theater and enjoyed it. But it's all the rehash of the James Brolin
00:57:45
original Amityville Horror. Oh, right. I don't know if it was a movie theater movie
00:57:48
or if it was a TV movie. I think it was TV because there's no way my parents would have taken me to that,
00:57:53
but I definitely fucking saw it and couldn't sleep because of it. Yes. So disturbing.
00:57:58
And so all those things where people are like waking up at 12, 12 and like freaking out.
00:58:04
Okay, let's stop it. Let's get into Karen's story about Neville Heath. I did my usual thing where I was watching on Tuesday, I was watching true crime shows all day.
00:58:22
And then I'm like, well, I didn't do anything today. So I better pick one of these,
00:58:26
an episode of one of these things and do my murder from one of these shows that I just watched.
00:58:31
And actually a ton of people told me this and I knew it, but I didn't realize they were saying,
00:58:36
so there's a show called Murder Maps on Netflix. And it's basically all these murders that have
00:58:42
taken place in London or I think England generally, but mostly London. And most of them are really old
00:58:51
and it's such a good show. And the guy that's the narrator host, I think his name is Nicholas Day,
00:58:57
is so dramatic and awesome. And it's just great. I love it. And so there was, I'd already watched
00:59:03
the first two seasons. So every time people would be like, you've got to watch Murder Maps. I'd be
00:59:07
like, girl, I've been there and back. Well, there was a season three and I didn't know. I think
00:59:12
that's what people were trying to tell me. Yeah. I'm going to try to be a better listener.
00:59:16
So that's what I was watching. And so this is this, this is the story of Neville Heath,
00:59:22
the lady killer. So I'm going to take you. Oh, also, I just want to say it. So it's this episode
00:59:28
of Murder Maps. There's a guy that's one of the talking heads and his name is Neil Root. And he
00:59:33
wrote a book called frenzy uh colon heath hi and christy and it's basically about the three british
00:59:40
serial killers that were caught after world war ii and they're john um christy i can't remember
00:59:46
if i did him or not but he's that guy i don't think i did he's really fucked up um i can't
00:59:54
remember what the other guy is and then the third guy my guy uh for this um and it just fascinating because there was maybe the high guy is there was somebody that during World War Two during like the Blitz when London was getting the fuck bombed out of it
01:00:09
I read about him. He was killing people. Like in an alley or something like that.
01:00:13
They would find bodies and they would assume, oh, this must be another thing from the bombing.
01:00:19
What a dick. Victim. Victim, thank you. Trophy. it's been a long day it's been a long day okay so anyway this is this these were all really good
01:00:33
stories but i this guy was especially interesting so i'll give you a little history as they do in
01:00:39
murder maps to kind of set the scene yes um may 8th 1946 it's victory um victory in europe day
01:00:46
is what they called it so finally world war ii is over and england and london specifically have
01:00:52
just gotten the shit beaten out of them. Oh, yeah. It's pretty amazing how badly London was bombed and made it.
01:01:02
If you go look at, there's a lot of those photos of before and after. Yeah. And it's insane.
01:01:08
It's insane. And what I really loved and what this show is really good at doing is they started talking
01:01:14
about how it affected the culture. Because so for like, you know, over six years, basically all of the men left, went off to fight war.
01:01:27
All of the women took over their jobs. I never knew this. But in that time of all the like when women had like hard labor jobs and they were talking about it in the setup of this.
01:01:43
And women built the Waterloo Bridge in London. No way. And when the narrator says that in the show, it cuts to this live black and white footage
01:01:54
of all these women sitting in basically what looks like men's work gear, smoking cigarettes
01:02:00
and like sitting on the bridge as like taking a lunch break from building it. Dude.
01:02:06
And that's what happened, you know, as everybody knows, like all the men were gone.
01:02:11
So women became truck drivers. Women worked in factories, made bombs, went into the army themselves.
01:02:18
Like, it's kind of amazing. So then when the war ended and all these soldiers came back, they thought they were just going to take their jobs again and like everything would be normal.
01:02:28
But this culture shift had changed. That was so radical where women were like, well, fuck you.
01:02:33
We had to do it out of necessity. And now we're like, we can do it. And also, why didn't you tell us pants were so comfortable?
01:02:39
Yeah. How dare you keep pants from us for this long? Only the horse ladies got pants.
01:02:44
That's bullshit. it. So, so I think that's kind of, that part is very exciting where it was like a woman's movement
01:02:53
purely by necessity where they were, it's the whole, we can do it thing where it's like,
01:02:57
not only can you do it, you're fully going to do it. And then you're going to want to keep doing it.
01:03:02
Even though men are back and they're like, now I work at the factory and they're like,
01:03:06
get the fuck out of here, buddy. They didn't do that, but it was a hard, uh, you know, uh,
01:03:13
Of course, soldiers had a hard time reacclimating in all ways, but then especially culturally,
01:03:18
because this was a world that they didn't live in before they left. Yeah. Or women were just like, yeah, I'll take care of it.
01:03:23
And they're traumatized. I mean, they'd seen horrible things and everyone was desensitized.
01:03:29
Now that they'd all lived through, those who lived through this horrible time in life,
01:03:35
they said that because, you know, like true crime and crime has always been huge, especially
01:03:41
in England and in, um, I don't know if it's George in England in like early 1800s England,
01:03:46
it was really popular. Um, but after world war two people in, you know, people who had watched
01:03:53
their neighbors be blown up by bombs or lost their brothers and husbands and, um, you know,
01:04:00
boyfriends in the war, they'd all become incredibly desensitized. So they weren't,
01:04:05
people didn't shy away or like death and murder were not taboo anymore. They were very interested
01:04:10
in it because now it was like, it's not happening to me. That makes sense. So they're finally like,
01:04:16
oh, I can read a story where it's not me with the bullet coming at me. It's like,
01:04:19
and it's not on the fucking battlefield and all this. Exactly. It's like a heap,
01:04:24
almost a bigger relief. Right. So that's kind of like the world they live in. One of the people,
01:04:29
oh, and also the, this is just an interesting aside. And they had video of these guys,
01:04:34
the true crime reporters of the time from all of those major newspapers in London,
01:04:38
they themselves became famous because the stories they reported were getting so popular.
01:04:45
They called them the murder gang. And they were like the crime reporter from The Sun, the crime reporter from the, you know, whatever all those newspapers are.
01:04:55
It was kind of the beginning of British tabloid reporting. And these true crime guys were like big time.
01:05:02
The true crime gang. The murder gang. Oh, that's what I meant. Yes. I could feel that.
01:05:08
Um, so they were kind of like local stars. One of the guys that came back at this time was a man named Neville Heath.
01:05:19
Now he was not like he, although he was, um, very good looking, he kind of looks like the
01:05:25
actor, Patrick Wilson, you know, that guy, he's like blonde, kind of wavy hair, cleft
01:05:30
chin. He was in like little children. He was in, um, he was in all the conjuring movies he plays.
01:05:37
Yeah, he's great. This guy looks like that guy. He is a tall, beautiful, blonde man who had gone off
01:05:46
and was in, he had joined the RAF in 1937 when he was still a teenager, but he had,
01:05:55
he came from like a nice middle family always had problems with criminal behavior always petty theft doing little things here and there
01:06:05
When the war effort started, he was like, I want to be a pilot. And so he joined the RAF, but then he stole funds from the mess hall and he ended up going AWOL because he didn't want to face it.
01:06:17
and um he kind of slowly developed into a con man because he was he could talk his way out of
01:06:25
anything he got people like people kind of fell in love with him all the time blonde people with
01:06:30
fucking chin clefts a blonde with a chin cleft and like i bet you he had a very deep soothing voice
01:06:36
like he was one of those people that just like never didn't have a good thing to say watch out
01:06:40
for those guys that watch it um he also so he was he was doing all kinds of uh like he he was um
01:06:51
eventually caught from going AWOL by trying to apply for credit by fraud so he was using all
01:06:58
these aliases yeah um he sounds like james bond kind of yeah like a bad guy james bond yeah okay
01:07:06
Like one of a James Bond villain. Yes. In the making. But good looking. Were there any James Bond villains that were good looking?
01:07:14
Male? I don't fucking know. That's a different podcast. It's called James Bonding.
01:07:19
Demographic. Yeah. He called himself Major Rupert Brooke. He called himself Lord Dudley.
01:07:25
Of course he did. So he was trying to apply for credit in Under These False Names.
01:07:33
Got caught. That's how he got arrested. He went to a boar stall, which is, I don't, it's a jail, but I don't know why that's different than a normal jail.
01:07:42
It just feeds you shittier food, probably. Think so? That's what it is? It sounds like they send you to Russia.
01:07:48
It sounds like there's like hay on the ground in your cell. Oh, that's a horse stall you're thinking of.
01:07:54
Wait, why don't I click this live link and tell you that a boar stall is a type of youth detention center.
01:07:59
So he was so young he was going to a youth detention center. We knew that. I knew that.
01:08:03
Don't act like I didn't know that, Georgia. We were testing you guys, you listeners.
01:08:08
But here's the problem. He flourished in jail. Man, there's a psychopath test. He's a full-on psychopath.
01:08:16
Did you flourish in jail? He flourished in jail. The governor of the jail, they're called the governor,
01:08:22
but he's basically like the warden of the boys' jail, kept giving him leadership duties
01:08:27
and eventually supported his application for the Air Force in 1939. He sounds like he could have been a really successful person
01:08:35
if he had just not been a dick. If he hadn't been a cheater, cheater, pumpkin eater.
01:08:40
Happy Halloween, everybody. We are on theme. This is a themed episode. We are not evergreen.
01:08:48
We are of the moment. He tried to re-enlist in the Air Force when the governor supported out the application.
01:08:56
The Air Force was like, no thanks, criminal. You tried this already, pal, and you get that one shot.
01:09:04
But yeah, he joined the Royal Service Corps and he was stationed in the Middle East.
01:09:09
And over there, he did all this his same business like he had to keep doing it. The second he got there, he pretended to be a man.
01:09:18
Oh, no, I'm sorry. When he in the Middle East, he got court-martialed. He basically stole, got court-martialed, was sent home in disgrace.
01:09:25
And on the boat ride home, he jumped off the boat like the boat docked in South Africa.
01:09:31
He got off and bailed. and escaped essentially and then started calling himself uh captain selway in south africa and uh
01:09:41
fun so far i mean yeah he had a good time with it he had a limp and a monocle as captain selway
01:09:47
and um our guy neil root was like he was just an actor like he was he got super into these roles
01:09:55
and he became the people dude he's an adventurer um until he kills people until yeah so let's see
01:10:02
I lost my spot. That's when you say, it really helps. I can't steal your bit. No, it's not that computer wise
01:10:12
gets me down to my spot. It helps. It really helps. Thanks, Stephen. He joins the South African Air Force
01:10:20
under the name Lieutenant Colonel James Armstrong. Okay. Which is kind of amazing.
01:10:27
It's so long ago that you could join like a government agency and they'd be like,
01:10:32
we haven't caught up to you yet we don't or you could be like here's my title and they're like
01:10:36
okay great there's no way to check this goodbye yeah but it's like what was it written on a
01:10:41
fucking napkin like it doesn't make sense and he's just like no this is who i am and everybody
01:10:45
trust me but it's like he's smooth talker all you have to be is confident people fucking believe you
01:10:49
if you're beautiful the world is your oyster wouldn't that be nice i mean um let's keep it
01:10:58
positive so uh so he flew missions as lieutenant colonel james armstrong um but then finally they
01:11:10
found out that he was this criminal guy because he couldn't fly a plane maybe he's like he was
01:11:15
like into i get you know at the time it was like world war ii and it was like the air force pilots
01:11:22
were the shit. Oh, for sure. They were the hot hotties. So he just wanted a slice of that.
01:11:29
Amen. He got deported back to England. He arrived in January of 1946. He tried to go to the London
01:11:36
School of Navigation because his ideas all be a commercial pilot. And he actually went, studied
01:11:41
there, worked really hard, tried. And then near the end, they found out about all of his court
01:11:47
marshals and all his bullshit from the army and basically being a criminal. And they told him,
01:11:51
you will never be a commercial pilot. I know. And they kicked him out. So his family thinks, like he's telling this
01:12:00
story of like, oh, I was a pilot in the army and now I'm going to be a commercial pilot and
01:12:03
everybody don't worry about it. So now, um, he can't tell them that he, none of that's going to
01:12:10
work out because he can't keep his hands out of the till. So he lies to them. And then I think
01:12:16
that's part of like the pressure starts mounting and what he ends up doing is drinking and going
01:12:20
to dance halls all the time. Sounds like a blast. Right. Um, and he, and he's a, of course, a huge
01:12:26
womanizer because he's he's beautiful um or good looking let's say he's he's no paul onions can i
01:12:35
just say really quickly mince told me a story the other day when we were on the plane on the way home
01:12:40
from australia and he saw that like riz Ahmed there was like a tv show with riz Ahmed on the
01:12:46
plane and he walked by and said riz Ahmed's on on tv and you heard him say riz Ahmed's
01:12:52
in seat one yes that's right your shit why did you guys tell me about that the minute we got
01:12:58
off the plane i i had no memory of that until you just said it right now because he was walking by
01:13:05
and just said it in that vince way like fast and kind of like yeah and but the excitement he said
01:13:11
it like the look on his face was like riz Ahmed's here yeah and then i was like in my pod all half
01:13:18
asleep and weird and I'm just like wait what? I love it. It doesn't matter. It's not I mean I'm
01:13:26
sure there are some people that would go and squat by their seat. You would have sat on his lap
01:13:30
the rest of the way home. I not only would not have sat on his lap I would have had a mean look
01:13:36
on my face in case he saw me and been looking at the ground the entire time. Do you know what kind
01:13:41
of shitty friend I am but like the best kind of friend is I would have been like let's walk by
01:13:46
him and then I would push you into him. Yeah. And you know, so it looks like you bumped into him.
01:13:50
You're the perfect wingman. I am such the wingman. Because you're going to work against all of my serious problems, which is
01:13:57
the best way to flirt is to act like you're angry and walk away. Women like not panned out well. Just go act like a human and speak to the person.
01:14:06
No! Moving on. So Riz Ahmed. Riz Ahmed is back in England. No. So, uh, Neville Heath is, he's under pressure. He's a failed, he's a failed pilot. He's not,
01:14:21
he's acting and can, you know, hold himself to be this person, but he actually doesn't have any of
01:14:27
the cred. Um, but he's, so he's meeting a bunch of women. He takes a room at the Pembridge Court
01:14:34
Hotel in Notting Hill Gate, which is the street, the main street in Notting Hill. That one I did
01:14:40
look up. Okay. Nonning Hill, the film that makes me crazy because why does he like her? Why? Why?
01:14:49
Why anything? That's true too. Okay. So he actually checks into this hotel using his real name. He
01:14:55
just added the fake title Lieutenant Colonel, but his real name is on the books. Does those even go
01:15:00
together? I don't know. I certainly don't know. Can you be a Lieutenant and a Colonel? I mean,
01:15:05
I would believe him because he did. One of the things he got in trouble for when he was in the
01:15:09
army was misusing uniforms and medals which is like that stolen valor thing get your story straight
01:15:15
i mean he's just like it's like go be go be an actor in the theater you fool that's what you
01:15:20
want to do yeah all the ladies you can all the single ladies all the single ladies okay so when
01:15:26
he's um he's at he has taken his hotel room he's out at a bar one night and he meets a woman named
01:15:33
Yvonne Simmons. He takes her out to dinner. He starts to romance her and he's trying to get her
01:15:39
to come back to the hotel room with her, with him and she won't go. And so he proposes to her.
01:15:44
And so she's like, okay, I will. So she goes, Yvonne, she buys it. He's, I mean, he sells it
01:15:52
in a way that she can buy it. He, she goes and fucks him. And the next day she goes back home to
01:15:57
Bainbridge, Bainsbridge, where she lives. Uh, I think either with her parents or her parents also
01:16:03
live there too. And now she thinks, oh, I'm engaged. That's my fiancé. This is an episode of
01:16:11
Downton Abbey. I mean, it really isn't this sad. A sad, dark Downton Abbey would not be a bad
01:16:17
idea. Yeah, what's it called? Downer to Nabbbey. I was going to say something else, and that's better.
01:16:24
Thank you so much. It's just goth. Everyone's goth. Takes place in the Middle Ages.
01:16:31
Bless you. don't you dare edit that out soon don't fucking take a note oh leave it listen we are real people
01:16:40
oh my god we have thoughts and feelings and sneezes okay okay she goes back to bainsbridge
01:16:46
four nights later uh neville meets a woman named marjorie gardner now she's an artist she's 32 years
01:16:54
old she was married to a terrible alcoholic who she's separated from um she's from a middle-class
01:17:01
family, but she has led a, what they call a bohemian lifestyle. Good for her. Yes, exactly, right?
01:17:07
She wears pants. Exactly. She grew her hair long and put a scarf in it. Fuck her.
01:17:13
She also, as they quote say in murder maps, they're like, she enjoyed the freedoms, the
01:17:19
new freedoms offered to women by the war. Pants. So basically, pants, sex. Pants and sex.
01:17:25
Pants, sex and cigarettes. And if you want, build a bridge. Love can build a bridge.
01:17:31
so she meets Neville at a bar. Same deal. He takes her out to dinner. Then they go to the Panama club,
01:17:39
which is some private club he belongs to. Or so he says they leave the Panama club at 1220 and they go back to room
01:17:47
four at the Pembridge court hotel. The following day, the assistant manager get enters the room because the maid can get in And so he comes up opens the door and Marjorie Gardner body is naked on the bed covered to the neck with sheets Her ankles are still bound
01:18:09
There's marks on her wrist to show that they were bound, but that the restraints had been cut.
01:18:16
She had been gagged. There were 17 lacerations on her body caused by a whip. Oh, my God.
01:18:24
She'd been punched in the face at least twice. Oh, my God. Nipples savagely bit.
01:18:30
No, no, no, no, no. I know, that's a bad one. And also, to me, the worst one where she had been raped and then an instrument had been inserted inside her vagina.
01:18:41
So I think they said it was like a bottle opener. It's horrible looking. Basically, an incredibly brutal and savage attack on this woman.
01:18:49
Is there a crime scene photo of it? Not that I saw. Not that I saw. But there's a very upsetting reenactment
01:18:58
because the woman looks a lot like the picture. They show the picture of Marjorie
01:19:04
and then this actress they got to play her looks almost exactly like her. So it's very real.
01:19:08
That's so crazy that supposedly that was his first murder. Supposedly. Because that's true.
01:19:15
It's not. It can't be. Like we all know that that's not your first murder if it's that.
01:19:20
Yeah, there's a gap of time where he goes from, I'm an embezzler, I steal. I basically, no rules apply to me.
01:19:28
That early kind of psychopath shit of I want to get whatever I want, no matter what.
01:19:33
And I don't care. But then it goes from there. And then there's all that time where who knows what he did in South Africa.
01:19:39
He's in the Middle East. Yeah. You know, he's he's he's breaking. He got discharged from the army for reasons that they're saying that they're these crimes, but who knows what the fuck he did.
01:19:53
They could be like, we don't want to advertise what else. Or they just don't know.
01:19:57
They just caught him for one thing, but he could be guilty of anything. Fuck, man.
01:20:01
That's brutal. So the thing is, and ultimately they find she was suffocated with a pillow.
01:20:10
That's how she actually died. Neville Heath is nowhere to be found, obviously. since he signed in under his own name note though now he's on the run um which means he didn't
01:20:21
it wasn't premeditated no you know what i mean that's a very good point yeah yeah why would you
01:20:27
especially since he's so tricky and uses so many aliases everywhere in his life and goes so far as
01:20:33
to pretend to have a limp and wear a monocle that why would he then hear do fuck up something pissed
01:20:39
him off and he snapped. He snapped. He snapped. Um, maybe who knows? Well, what he does do
01:20:47
is takes the train to Bainbridge and goes to meet his brand new fiance, Yvonne's parents.
01:20:53
So Yvonne, he's like, guess what? I'm coming to visit. Like everything I said was real.
01:20:59
I wasn't just super drunk. Um, he goes to the parents golf club and has dinner with the family.
01:21:07
Then they leave and they go out to another club for drinks. And he realizes he has to give her his explanation of what happened in that room because she was in the room with him and that he knows the story is going to come out that Marjorie Gardner was murdered.
01:21:25
So he tells Yvonne that he met a man who asked if he could borrow his Neville's hotel room key so he could go fuck a lady.
01:21:35
and Neville was like, sure, no problem, buddy. Take my key and I'll just go walk around the streets
01:21:40
whistling with my hands in my pockets all night. And then that basically that the murder
01:21:46
was some other guy killing Marjorie and he was just the unlucky fella that gave his key to somebody.
01:21:53
What are the chances? I mean, the odds are insane. The next day, the newspapers are filled with his picture
01:22:01
and pleased to turn himself in. And so the family sees it. All these people see it. He writes the police a letter explaining to Marjorie.
01:22:12
I mean, explaining that he'd lent Marjorie the room key. He went out for the night.
01:22:18
And then when he came back, he found her dead body. So he changes the story slightly to the police.
01:22:23
Which we all know is a red flag city. You read Flag City. And also, apparently he wrote these letters all the time. The Neil Rooke guy talks about how Neville Heath would write letters all the time after he did stuff, kind of explaining what his deal was. And oftentimes it would lead people to go, that's okay, I understand now, and let him off the hook. That's how he got out of things.
01:22:46
And one of the theories is he had been doing these things for so long and getting away with it that he kind of thought he was untouchable.
01:22:53
And he didn't ever believe he just didn't. He thought everyone would always believe him because they always did.
01:22:58
Because people want to believe pretty people. They do believe pretty people over fucking not pretty people.
01:23:04
Absolutely. You get away with shit and people fucking get charmed by you. It's charm.
01:23:10
It's that thing of when a certain type of person looks at you and presents a thing.
01:23:14
Yeah. Like there are people who just know the power of their own face or their own voice or their own.
01:23:20
Well, they don't know. That's just what they're used to in life. Right. They think everyone gets treated like that and everyone can do this thing.
01:23:26
Right. It's a, it's quite a combination of like when you have a psychopath, that's good looking, like, you know, all doors are open.
01:23:34
You're fucked. You're fucked. Hello, the devil. So it's my new musical. So, okay.
01:23:43
Anyway, he, in this letter to the police, tells them he found the whip that she was injured with, and he was going to bring it with him when he came to talk to them.
01:23:54
Oh, no. And then just And that it So they like okay But um he now operating under false names again So he still he isn going back to the police
01:24:06
So he checks in on June 23rd. He checks into the Toleroy Hotel in Bournemouth under the, um, name, the fake name, group
01:24:17
captain Rupert Brooke. No. Yeah. He always has to have two military names before the fake name.
01:24:25
um okay so and this is like about two the murders happened he's on the loose for two weeks essentially
01:24:33
um and he's walking around bournemouth um and he meets a woman named doreen marshall she and her
01:24:41
friend are also walking around it's i think bournemouth from what i remember but this could
01:24:45
be wrong but i think it's a seaside town that's from what i remember from murder map let's fucking
01:24:51
go with it steven's gonna tell me whether or not i think i'm right though but i think it's like it's
01:24:54
like a little, he got out of town basically. He went to the vacation spot. I'm right. Okay. Thank
01:24:59
God. Cause I can't have British people angry at me. I can't. Cause they're just stern. They won't
01:25:05
yell at you. No, they'll just be disappointed and friendly, which I can't take. I need Irish
01:25:10
yelling or nothing. Okay. So he goes to Bournemouth to get out of town. He he's walking around,
01:25:16
but he is a voracious. He's they call him eventually they end up calling him the lady
01:25:21
killer because he's just this womanizer that then of course is literally a lady killer he meets this
01:25:27
girl Doreen Marshall and he won't leave her alone he's like on her all day long um and at first she's
01:25:34
into it of course because it's the good looking army captain or whatever he group captain and then
01:25:38
she fucking senses he's a creep yes fucking gut feeling tingling yes and also because he can't
01:25:45
I think people like that they can only keep that certain level of charm going for so long yeah so
01:25:50
So once he's, it's like, if you're, especially if you're not going with the direction he's
01:25:56
trying to take you, then he started getting real pushy and real insistent. And in the hotel room, I mean, in the hotel lobby, he was getting really pushy with Doreen.
01:26:09
And the night manager of the hotel actually saw it happen and saw her going into a panic
01:26:16
about it. And that night manager was the last person to see her alive. Oh no. So he saw some kind of weird exchange between the two of them. Noticed it. Noticed how
01:26:25
weird enough to notice. Yeah. How unhappy she was and made a note of it. So the next day,
01:26:31
um, the, the man, the manager of the Tolerate receives a call from the Norfolk hotel,
01:26:37
um, which is where Doreen was staying like on a different side of town. And they called because
01:26:44
she was last seen at that hotel getting into a cab to come to their hotel and she never arrived and
01:26:50
never came back and i guess the friend was like that's what i'm assuming the friend was like
01:26:55
you have it's like we have to figure out where my friend went yeah and um the staff at the tallin
01:27:01
were becoming very suspicious of group captain rupert brooke because of all these things they
01:27:07
were seeing him you know these vibes they were getting from him and the behavior um
01:27:12
so finally the police meanwhile putting all these things together put together that neville heath and
01:27:20
um rupert brook are the same person and so um uh he had he he said he was from um some some
01:27:33
like Air Force base in a place. It's a city in London. No, no, no. It's like Leicester.
01:27:46
Okay. But I think it's Leicester. When have you ever cared? I know, but suddenly I'm holding my
01:27:53
hair about it. I know you are really troubled. It's probably Leicester. Leicester. Leicester.
01:27:59
Yeah, that's probably what it is. That's probably what it is. Yeah. Oh, they're so mad.
01:28:03
I can hear the tea spilling across this ocean. The police, it's the thing I said of coming back into, the police realized Neville Heath
01:28:11
and Rupert Brooks are the same person. Rupert Brooks, sorry. And so they also find in his room a train ticket for Doreen Marshall, the whip with hair on
01:28:27
that was then traced to what's up with the whip marjorie gardner i know that's fucked that's like
01:28:33
a really specific weird thing yes but you had to have it on you you know what i mean so like
01:28:39
you didn't just grab something and hit the person with it you like had your whip yes you know and
01:28:45
like this is what you're into right which also then goes like did he snap or was this a build
01:28:52
what did he yeah or the thing of like he brought it out and she wasn't into it and so he attacked
01:29:00
her it's like no he he got off on yeah well she's and marjorie was tied up so like was it
01:29:09
fun times tied up and oh look i have a whip or was it like and then it all goes bad sure
01:29:16
Okay, honey. So a waitress walking her dog sees a strange swarm of flies down near the beach.
01:29:30
So then later on, when she sees the story of Marjorie Gardner's death in the paper,
01:29:35
she grabs her dad and goes back down to that part of the beach to check out what the swarm of flies are.
01:29:41
and there Doreen Marshall's body is found, nude, arms tied behind her back, stabbed to death.
01:29:48
That chick was a vintage murderino. She was the a Ridge. A Ridge murderino. Because she had to make that connection where she was like I sure there was a weird smell too if there was a swarm of flies but she kind of saw something Yeah but you still be like it a bird or whatever the fuck That right But she was like Dad let make sure And he like
01:30:05
And she's smart enough to not go, I'm going to go make sure by myself. Yeah. She's like.
01:30:10
Hey, Dad. Father power. Okay. Okay. So what Neville Heath had done when he was out of his hotel room,
01:30:21
he went back by climbing up the outside of the hotel up of what they say call a builder's ladder
01:30:30
on the side of the hotel and he basically snuck into his own hotel room probably because he was
01:30:36
covered in blood and had shit all over him and knife and all that stuff because he had he had
01:30:41
murdered Doreen but he then the next morning told the story in like the lobby with other hotel
01:30:48
residence as if it was, I pulled this prank on like the doorman. So he tried to make it,
01:30:54
he was basically trying to establish this motive of, I was doing this fun, funny, crazy thing with
01:30:58
the doorman. That's what I was doing last night. And that's what you're going to remember.
01:31:02
Stupid. So, um, when the police questioned him, uh, he claims that he blacked out. He'd has no
01:31:12
memory of what happened during that night. He says that he came to on the beach looking at his
01:31:17
bloody hands that he washed his hands in the sea and then walked back to the hotel.
01:31:23
But what it turned out happened was he took her down to the beach, attacked her, murdered
01:31:29
her there. And before he murdered her, he took off all his clothes so that when he was because he
01:31:36
knew he would be covered in blood. So when he was done stabbing her to death, he went in, washed himself in the sea and
01:31:43
then came back out and put his clothes on. That's how you know he knew what he was doing.
01:31:47
Exactly right. Yeah. Not a snap. Nope. In this situation anyway. Pre-planned. Pre-planned.
01:31:53
When you're like, I want to murder somebody, but I don't want my clothes to get dirty.
01:31:58
Fuck you, dude. Yeah. Okay. Absolutely. Fuck you, dude. On September. Oh, then he disposed of the knife.
01:32:06
The ultimate proof that you're not insane. Sure. September 24th, 1946. The murder trial begins.
01:32:13
His lawyers tried to claim insanity. And they they did it by revealing his previous crimes and then saying this is a progressive mania that then built to murder.
01:32:26
And then the Neil Root guy explains that you have to know what you're doing is wrong to cover it up.
01:32:32
And that's the proof that it's not you can't do if you if they can prove you tried to cover it up.
01:32:37
And that proves you're not insane. I love that rule. Yeah. Because it applies to so few actual murders.
01:32:45
Yes. Yeah. And it's so clear. It's like, it makes so much sense. So he was found guilty and he eventually was hanged for the murders.
01:32:58
Holy shit. But up until the end, and this is kind of an amazing, like, final moment for that show that I loved.
01:33:05
Apparently, the thing they used to do before they hung you was they gave you a shot of whiskey.
01:33:12
Really? Like a glass, you know. It's like they're going to give you dental surgery or they're going to hang you.
01:33:17
You're right. So you kind of got like one quick thing before you went. And he said to the hangman, considering the circumstances, you might want to make it a double.
01:33:28
Oh, my God. Like to the end was this insane, phony lunatic. Because that's the coolest line I've ever heard.
01:33:34
I mean, it isn't bad. I'll say that. So Heath is clearly a charmer. Yeah. The lady killer, Neville Heath.
01:33:42
I don't know. we don't do that we only do that live I forgot oh my god um I think because I really buttoned it
01:33:51
and I felt like you felt like you had to do yeah it was like wow tough you say the title at the
01:33:57
beginning and the end yeah whoa oh but I am going to tonight in my car by Neil Root's book frenzy
01:34:07
because this story and then those other three, like the way all that information was coming out,
01:34:13
where you're like, this is why people, it's like when that explanation of people during World War II
01:34:19
becoming desensitized to fear and horror and death. And then when the war's over,
01:34:25
they still want to know the bad shit because they've already known the bad shit.
01:34:28
Distraction. It's a distraction from your own woes. Yes. And they were saying like for the soldiers,
01:34:34
it's a celebration that it's not them. I think that's what it is for us today. You know, like we know these things can happen and all this horrible shit can happen.
01:34:42
And hearing about it. Makes it legitimizes it and makes it true. And we're aware of it and we're not trying to fucking shelter ourselves from shit because.
01:34:54
Man, life's a bitch. Life's a bitch. And we're so lucky. We're so lucky. And there is there's another book that I'm reading that's about murder in like the early 1800s in England.
01:35:05
And that's when they would put it out on the broadsheets and it was really popular.
01:35:09
There would be like a picture. Here ye, here ye. Yeah. And they glue it up to a wall or whatever.
01:35:14
Sure. And I'll get the title of the book for next time. But in that, the author was saying that it's like sitting inside a house when there's a
01:35:25
rain, a thunderstorm outside where you enjoy the raindrops on the window pane. That's exactly it.
01:35:31
Because you're inside in the warmth with protection. That's exactly it. Or like when you're in an earthquake and you know it's not going to be that bad and you're just like, this is so fucking cool and fascinating.
01:35:42
Yeah. Because there's boundaries to it. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's fucking cool. Okay, we're back.
01:35:54
Karen, any updates on this epic World War II story? No updates for that story specifically.
01:36:00
but we did get this email from a listener in 2017. And it's written, a very British person wrote this email.
01:36:07
So please bear with me as I do this incorrectly. It just starts, family dinners.
01:36:11
You never know what exciting little tidbits will be disclosed during Toad in the Hole.
01:36:16
And then in parentheses, it says, we probably weren't actually eating that, but doesn't it sound so deliciously British of us?
01:36:23
It does. Just jump right in. It says, there I was listening to stories about my cousin's new boyfriend, Neville,
01:36:29
when my aunt pipes up with, isn't it funny that his name is Neville? I say, why?
01:36:33
Because of Neville Longbottom and Harry Potter? I mean, how many other Neville's do you know?
01:36:39
And then she says, no, because of your granddad's cousin, Neville Heath, the serial killer.
01:36:46
And then it says, wait, excuse me? Picture shock followed by thoughts that this might be the best dinner ever.
01:36:51
And then it just says, SSDGM, bye, Taryn. Taryn, I love like no info, no details,
01:36:58
just letting us know that it's like, that's what we want. Taryn recaptured the moment where she heard the craziest piece of news of like,
01:37:06
you're potentially related to this horror show that you just heard about. And this is the only place, this podcast, where you can say that and people will go,
01:37:14
no way. Oh my God. What? I understand what you mean. All right. Let's head back in for good things of the week.
01:37:24
One happy thing. Should we end on that? Oh yeah. Botox. No, I'm kidding. Can you pause?
01:37:31
No, don't pause. Don't edit that out. But that's not my thing. I mean, it really is just...
01:37:40
Oh, I'll say one. Okay. We did the LA Podfest last weekend. It was super fun We did a great show with KCRW where we got to be guest DJs That was so fun We did our own live show
01:37:55
I did the stand-up show. It was like a hangout at the Biltmore. And we got to meet all these listeners that came specifically to the PodFest.
01:38:04
And people drove in from far away, people from Arizona. Remember the guy last year that we met at LA PodFest?
01:38:11
His name was Joe and he gave us those LA coroner's office mugs. Yes. Yes. I still have mine.
01:38:18
Well, he came back again and gave us a travel mug and an apron also from the coroner's office.
01:38:23
And I went, sorry, remind me, do you work at the coroner's office? He goes, no, I just love that they have a gift shop.
01:38:30
And there was just like, we met so many cool people and actually got to like, yeah, for a second and talk to people.
01:38:37
It was really nice. It felt very much like a, like, we're all just chilling situation.
01:38:43
Right. It was very fun. And those, and I will say for that standup show, which I don't love doing anymore just
01:38:49
because I don't work on it and whatever. But that was fun because it's an audience of people who really love and care about comedy
01:38:57
for the most part, for that pod fest anyway. So it was like, they were with you the entire time.
01:39:03
Like it was, it was so fun to do a set like that because everyone had the best sense of humor.
01:39:08
It's almost like they weren't waiting for you to make them laugh. They were like, let's all enjoy this.
01:39:13
Yeah. It's like how when we do ours where you already have the benefit of the doubt.
01:39:17
Yeah. So everyone's ready to just go where you want to go. Right. No, I love that.
01:39:21
That's great. It was. Yeah. So thank you, LA Podfest. Yeah. Dave Anthony, Graham Elwood, Chris Mancini.
01:39:28
It was super fun. Yeah, it definitely was. Give me one second. what do I like about this world
01:39:34
it just can also be like selfish like what I don know because yours was very sweet and giving Like being alone
01:39:47
No, I think that's really good. To you? Of course. You can leave this part in. So Vince was gone last week.
01:39:55
Missed him. Love him. It's so quiet and weird here without him. But God, there's something about being alone and just like watching whatever you want to watch.
01:40:04
and lots of farting and drinking, you know, drink, having a drink and talking to your cats and like
01:40:11
singing stupid songs. And I just, I really enjoy that a lot. Yeah. In a way that's like,
01:40:18
doesn't mean I don't love Vince. Oh, of course not. You know? No, no, no. I think it's, um,
01:40:23
it's almost like a resetting. Yeah. When you can just get a little, I mean, I've gone,
01:40:28
you have to be careful though, because then after a while, like, I think I have thin skin about it
01:40:33
where I need now I'm becoming that kind of person where like I need things to be a certain way
01:40:37
because I'm so used to always only having things exactly how I want them, which isn't good.
01:40:43
Yeah. But then when you meet someone you really like, you're like, oh, I like the way he does
01:40:47
that stupid thing. Yeah, that's true. Now it's like there had some, I had some greeting or some
01:40:52
like saying I saw a long time ago that said like, when you don't like someone, the way they eat
01:40:58
pisses you off when you like someone, they could spill food on you and you'd be so thrilled about
01:41:05
it. Like something like that, where it's just depends on the person. Yeah, that's very true.
01:41:10
But there's, there is something very Zen about just like being in silence or just kind of
01:41:15
doing what you want and not always for so long. I really always had to have like three people
01:41:20
around me at all times. And, um, just kind of knowing yourself too, and knowing what you would
01:41:25
be like alone and your schedule and like how you would fall asleep at night which is apparently on a fucking naked bed with my fucking vintage comforter And no sheets And no sheets covering me
01:41:38
And, you know, it's kind of cool to check back in with yourself like that. Yeah, I think that's really good.
01:41:43
Yeah. And then when Vince came home, I was like, great, I got to be a human again.
01:41:46
I actually have to shower. Yeah, he's very strict about that stuff. Yeah, being alone.
01:41:56
Consider it. Consider it for a hot second. And we're back. Okay, so we originally titled this episode Peak Experience.
01:42:09
But if we were naming it today based on the episode that just happened, maybe we would call it...
01:42:14
We could call it Swear to Almost, which was Georgia being almost positive that Danny Glover was the host of Cold Case Files.
01:42:19
So instead of saying, swear to God. That means I was right, because I wasn't right.
01:42:24
It was right for you to backtrack. That's right. Okay, we could also call it Giants for You
01:42:28
because I love that you have that interest, Karen. Giants for You. Of course, me and Sister Rita Rose,
01:42:35
who my foundational memory of Amityville Horrors with that old, old nun who also taught my mother.
01:42:41
We've got Insane Phony Lunatic. Love that. And then, of course, Downerton Abbey.
01:42:49
Downerton Abbey. That's the really dark, sad goth Downton Abbey. I still think that's a great idea.
01:42:55
it's funny all right well let's have elvis say goodbye back in the pod loft in 2017
01:43:00
all right well thanks for listening stay sexy and don't get murdered bye elvis use your microphone elvis want a cookie
01:43:13
whoa the big yes you just blew doors on that one bye bye yeah we heard you