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00:02:14
Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia. This is a show where we recap our early episodes with new case info and lots of old feelings.
00:02:24
Today, we're rewinding to episode 98, which we named Grasp It. Why did we do that, I wonder?
00:02:31
We're about to find out. This episode originally was released on December 7th, 2017.
00:02:37
All right, let's get into the intro of episode 98. Should we do some coffee sips for the ASMR people?
00:02:46
Okay. Oh, wait. Oh, God. Welcome to my favorite murder. Ah, the coffee episode. We're recording at around 4 o'clock in the afternoon in the sooty skies of Los Angeles, California.
00:03:03
It's just, everything is burning. The world is burning down, and right in the center of it, we're here to help you enjoy murder.
00:03:12
Karen, the soothing voice of Karen Kilgareth. And Georgia Hartstark over to my left.
00:03:17
And of course, the big sipper himself, Stephen Ray Morris. Yeah, did you remember?
00:03:24
Did you do a nice loud one? I was hot. Could you hear yourself? No, you got to take the hit for the show.
00:03:29
Hot. All right. He took another big sip. Like I'm making him chug it like he's joining a frat.
00:03:37
Let's pause and chug coffee and then let's get back on and talk. And just start screaming and like we can't talk because our mouths are burned.
00:03:44
That's a subset of ASMR videos. What? Burned mouth ASMR videos. Do you know what I watched on repeat for like...
00:03:52
That wasn't true. What were you about to say? Oh, I just watched this video. There's this, there's this, um, Instagram called like burn it and they just fucking
00:04:00
burn things. I think it's like an ASMR for your eyeballs. Is that a thing? Yes. It's called, um, and they, especially if you're an arsonist, what's it called?
00:04:12
Steven, do you know? No. Uh, it's what liking things burning down is. Yeah. Like watching things burn.
00:04:18
So they'll pour acid on like soap and you just watch it. And sometimes you could hear it bubbling or they'll just torch like a fucking, like a little toy, plastic child's toy.
00:04:28
Oh. Child's toy. But I watched them melting a tube of lipstick over and over. So satisfying.
00:04:36
What did they use to melt it? Like a fire, like a lighter. Wow. It was so soothing and satisfying.
00:04:44
I bet. Did it all, did like the liquid, like the lipstick itself melt and then the plastic melt afterwards?
00:04:50
Just the lipstick they did. No, I'm just saying, describe the order of melting to me.
00:04:56
They only put it onto the lipstick and the lipstick melted. Oh, not the container.
00:05:00
Okay, that was it. Elvis has joined us. Hi, Elvis. Let's talk about murder. I have an update from the Amish murders that I talked about a couple weeks ago.
00:05:13
This email says, Karen Durgis, Steven, and all the animals. Lost my shit listening to you tell the little boy blue murder.
00:05:19
my friends made fun of me so it would be ideal if you could read this on the podcast
00:05:23
so they feel hella dumb in your fucking face I grew up on a farm who doesn't I grew up on a farm around the area where the body was found
00:05:33
but I had to let you know that you miss the uplifting gives you hope in the whole
00:05:39
fucked up story ending the people of Chester population 225 raised money to bury the unidentified boy
00:05:46
under the name of Matthew Matthew, which means gift from God. The memorial service was packed with 400 people, almost double the population of the entire town.
00:05:55
People still visit his grave and leave toys and flowers and they maintain his memorial even rebuilding it after a tornado I grew up there about a decade later and I still heard the story and my parents pointed out the memorial every time we drove by
00:06:09
The town completely adopted the little boy blue and even now feels so strongly about honoring his memory.
00:06:16
Just thought you might like to know that even though there are crazy assholes who murder their wives, roommates, and children,
00:06:21
There are also tiny Nebraska towns who open their hearts to show a lot of love. SSDGM.
00:06:27
Can't wait to catch you in St. Louis in a couple weeks, Kaylee. Oh, I love it. Nebraska.
00:06:33
I love it. I mean, always let us know if there's an uplifting ending we've missed.
00:06:39
Jesus. That's amazing. Can someone email us right now and tell me about my story this week's uplifting ending?
00:06:46
Because I couldn't find it. Oh, it's a bummer. Yeah. Okay, you were going to tell me about a show that you watch that you really like called
00:06:54
Warrior? It's a movie. It's a documentary. What's it about? It's an author named Gay Talese who was very famous for doing kind of like expose type
00:07:06
of essay long reads in the 70s. I've never, I made most of that up based on what I saw briefly in this documentary.
00:07:16
I've always heard his name. I've never read him. But anyway, he's clearly brilliant and has been doing it forever.
00:07:22
And he got contacted by a man. I'll just do this the lightest version possible. So there's no spoilers.
00:07:29
He was contacted by a man who had a 30 year secret. And the secret is because obviously the name of the movie is Voyeur.
00:07:37
The man owned a motel that he set up so that he could go watch people through the vents in the ceilings in every room.
00:07:45
Oh, my God. But he didn't record it on video. He just would go up there, watch them, and then recorded in minute detail what he saw.
00:07:53
Like into a tape recorder? Onto a journal. And then he basically gave Gaitley these writings.
00:08:01
Can you imagine how happy he, she was? You have to see it because at first I'm like, this is so weird and disgusting and this guy is such a pervert.
00:08:10
But no one's acting like that at the beginning. and it's just a fascinating I just
00:08:16
highly recommend it. I'm going to watch that. Do you think you've ever been watched illegally?
00:08:21
You know what I mean? Like in a hotel room? Odds are yes. I would think. All the gross things I've done
00:08:27
and I hope it wasn't then in a hotel room. I think that's the appeal of hotel rooms.
00:08:34
It's like this weird kind of neutral space where you get to do things you would never do at home.
00:08:39
Right. And so that's kind of like he he was already a voyeur and then he bought the it's a motel.
00:08:45
He bought it with that in mind. That's crazy. Because he knew that would be the perfect place.
00:08:50
Why am I like, well, at least he didn't videotape them. It's like, that's not better.
00:08:54
I know. But these days we're all just trying to go like, is it the worst thing ever?
00:08:58
Are we trying to like, oh, can we hold back a little judgment? But I think that's what this documentary is kind of about.
00:09:04
Yeah. Is the way we all do that in lots of different ways. I love it. It's good.
00:09:08
I highly recommend it. I want to recommend this show that I found that I had to watch three times on Amazon.
00:09:14
It's a pilot. I don't know if it's, I don't think it's gotten picked up yet. It's called Sea Oak and it's so fucking weird and good.
00:09:22
It's like a dark comedy. Okay. It's Glenn Close as this like boring old woman who lives with her like niece and nephew, nieces
00:09:29
and nephew. And it's fucking crazy and gets really dark. Okay. I want to see that.
00:09:34
Essentially, and I'm kind of spoiling it, but this is what the... Don't want to.
00:09:39
Okay. Glenn Close. Jack Quaid. He's like the boy in it. And he's like the cutest little thing you've ever seen.
00:09:45
Who is Izzy? Not boy. He's like a guy. He's like a grown man. Is he Dennis Quaid's relative?
00:09:49
I don't know. Is it sea oak like the ocean? S-E-A oak? S-E-A oak. And I think it takes place in a dystopian future, kind of.
00:09:59
It's really good. I want to watch more episodes. I hope they make more. Now I really want to watch it.
00:10:04
Can I do one more? Because I didn't talk about Godless last week, did I? It's a Western that's on Netflix.
00:10:14
And apparently I tweeted about it, how badass it is, because it's great. And Merit Weaver is one of the stars.
00:10:21
And she was from Nurse Jackie. She's one of my very favorite actresses. She's the one who gave that Emmy speech by walking up and going, thanks and leaving.
00:10:28
And I was like, I've never loved anyone more. She's the best. Oh, it's good. But she's also such a great, great, great actress.
00:10:35
But anyway, it's basically this town, a western town in, I think it's New Mexico.
00:10:43
I can't remember. They're just besieged by bad guys. And what happens to the town?
00:10:47
There's a little history before. There's a certain circumstance. Is it a western?
00:10:52
It's a western. But Lady Mary from Downton Abbey is in it. Michelle Dockery. this amazing actor
00:10:59
British actor named Jack somebody who is just like hot as can be and then Jeff Daniels plays the bad guy
00:11:07
I think Vince and I started watching this it's very slow at first because it's a western and it's like they're doing it
00:11:13
just like westerns get done I cannot tell you how much westerns bore me and I know
00:11:18
I'm going to get shit for that but it's like they're so slow well not all of them
00:11:25
And sometimes it, I feel like this knew what it was doing. Yeah. So it had, it did a thing at the beginning that was so crazy.
00:11:32
Also, Sam, uh, the one from Law and Order who I love. Oh yeah. With the, uh, yeah.
00:11:40
Anyway, there's a beginning that goes, you just are like, what the fuck is this?
00:11:45
And then it, and then it like goes into really unfolding. But there's an interesting thing.
00:11:50
Someone sent me a link that said I got bummed out about that show after I read this article And it was an article that was like trying to be a takedown saying people are saying this is the feminist Western we all been waiting for And here how it not But I would just encourage people because I know sometimes people write those things
00:12:11
And I understand it's kind of trying to say, like, don't label things, the thing that you say it is,
00:12:16
if it's not going to do A, B and C. Right. Especially if the person who made it,
00:12:20
that wasn't their intention. I don't think it was their intention, but I will argue that
00:12:24
you see women in this series doing things you have never seen them in any modern right or otherwise
00:12:31
kind of show before and this is the old west yeah so it should it like has more meaning i don't know
00:12:37
i just thought it was really brilliantly written and acted um so anyway just in case somebody's
00:12:43
gotten a hold of a bad article i would just say test the waters first okay for at least a couple
00:12:48
episodes because it's I think it's really good okay I'll do it okay I love it Stephen just gave
00:12:54
me a printed up Instagram apparently this is what you kids spend all your time on on this Instagram
00:12:59
um I don't go on there but it was from Colleen Elizabeth Colleen's the chick her name was Colleen
00:13:08
what'd you say god damn it Clarissa explains it all uh explains everything she she replied
00:13:16
She sent a picture of what she gave me. A drawing that we talked about last week, the beautiful horizon drawing.
00:13:23
Yeah. Yeah. So she said, I gave a painting to MFM's Kernical Gareth at the Minneapolis show.
00:13:29
I was too broke to buy good tickets, so my friend and I bought cheap ones, and I left the painting with a girl sitting at the VIP table.
00:13:36
I was pretty sure it would never make it to her. The shout out on the pod was more than I ever expected, and the outpouring of support is overwhelming.
00:13:43
My shop is empty. I love it. Thanks to a few murderinos who bought things. New work is coming soon.
00:13:49
Thanks, you guys. I'm humbled by the support. Also, my frames are made by my incredible boyfriend at MN Creative Woodcraft.
00:13:59
He's an amazing woodworker and the best frame maker I've never paid. And I specifically mentioned the frame because it's the coolest.
00:14:05
It's like it's floating inside a frame. I went on her site because we posted it.
00:14:09
You can see the photo on Instagram or my favorite murder Instagram. I went on her site and I'm like fucking going to buy something when she reposts.
00:14:15
There's so, there's so many and they're so beautiful. Oh, good. I look at, I've, when I first put it up, I put it in a weird spot and then I realized
00:14:24
I want to put it in a spot I pass constantly. It's that like soothing to me. It's so nice.
00:14:29
I love it. Yay. And thanks to you guys for supporting her. Yeah. Everyone, you murderinos are fucking good people.
00:14:36
Thank you. Yeah. So who's going first this week based on our new algorithm? How's your murder?
00:14:43
I don't believe in the new algorithm It doesn't work that way I mean, you know what I mean?
00:14:49
How about I went first last week? Yeah, I'll do it Yes Steven, goddammit It's one of the 29,000 things you have to do
00:14:58
You had 29,000 things to do And you can't do this one I definitely went first Check my notes
00:15:03
Who cares about your notes? Yeah, because Karen went last time Yeah. I went first last time? Oh, last last. You went last last time.
00:15:15
Why don't we just say? Okay. And we're back. Do you remember those ASMR melting lipstick videos?
00:15:25
I did not remember them until this episode. I was like, oh yeah, I was really into that. Why
00:15:29
isn't my algorithm showing me that anymore? Is that just out? It's just not hip anymore.
00:15:33
I think it is, but I think it's bigger on TikTok and I'm on Instagram maybe. Maybe.
00:15:38
Also, I watched an electrolysis video for so long the other night. Yes. Oh, God, that's satisfying.
00:15:45
I've been fed those. It's like, oh, you like gross stuff? Here's this. Or like plucking.
00:15:50
Oh, my God. It's so satisfying. But it's not as gross as Dr. Pimple Popper, which is also very satisfying.
00:15:56
But sometimes it takes a turn. Totally. Like you see and you can't unsee it. I've also started being fed like lash grooming videos of people who do like lash filler.
00:16:07
And now you just like they just video it super close up. Lash is being combed out.
00:16:12
Lash is being glued. It's just like this calm, focused lash thing. Yeah. And it's it's really fucking satisfying.
00:16:22
Oh, and then I completely forgot about the Boyer's Motel, that documentary. I know, which is a great documentary.
00:16:27
And then also not real. Totally. Was it not real? Yeah. What happened? It was like they found out that the guy never actually owned it, like that he was basically kind of a confabulator.
00:16:39
And so part of the story of him doing that at the motel was also a story. And so he was the only source of it and provable.
00:16:48
And he didn't even own it. So the odds that he was kind of just, you know, basically lying for fun, which is such a hilarious.
00:16:58
That should be a new documentary. That's amazing. People who, yeah, for sure. You're going to go tell an incredibly famous writer, journalist, your story that's fascinating and not ever go, this might be a bad idea.
00:17:13
I just met the guy who created the documentary Tickled. Oh, yeah. David Ferrier?
00:17:19
David Ferrier. I met him. And the new one he's doing is something really interesting, too.
00:17:23
Let me try to remember it off the top of my head. Is it about the church? No, it's something else now.
00:17:28
Because of Tickled I a huge David Ferrier fan and I followed him for years on Twitter And then one day I pulled up to work here and he was standing outside the building And I immediately recognized him And then I freaked out and then I had to look up to make sure I was right And I was So I got out of the car and I was getting ready to be like hi are you waiting to go inside or whatever And right as I got out of the car someone opened the door and brought him inside And I never met him Oh no he was at your literally your I bet he was there for trust me He was on trust me So go back to their January episodes and look up David Farrier
00:18:07
He basically had a hand in kind of breaking up this mega church that was really, you have to
00:18:14
listen to it, but he basically kind of like started this campaign of like taking down the person that
00:18:19
ran this church. And it was mostly on social media, just like asking for people to tell them
00:18:24
stories of firsthand accounts of having to get out of the church and stuff. He's an agitator.
00:18:29
He's a real deal. I love it. I did a show with him for Jonah Ray's new standup show,
00:18:36
and he is so funny and charming and from New Zealand, so you can say anything you want. It's
00:18:42
charming. And he can say anything he wants. Oh, sorry, that's what you were saying. I thought
00:18:49
you meant you could be like to him, like, hey, go fuck yourself, sir. He'd be like, that's wonderful.
00:18:52
I love it. No, I was too nervous to say anything. Yeah, he's nerve-wracking. I stand by my godless recommendation because it's Merritt Weaver, who has since, I think, won a bunch of Emmys.
00:19:05
But then it's also Michelle Dockery and Jack O'Connell, who was the vampire in Sinners.
00:19:11
It's like a—you gotta go see that TV show if you haven't seen it. I don't think I ever did.
00:19:15
It won all these Emmys and stuff. So, yeah. It's a great Western story about women who have to take over a town.
00:19:21
Hell yeah. It's real good. You guys, let's bring it back from 2017. It's vintage now, like this podcast.
00:19:27
That's right. A vintage godless wreck. Okay, should we do it? Let's do it. All right, let's get into Karen's story about Marcel Pitois.
00:19:41
While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.
00:19:47
The future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age 14. Making plays that end up on everyone's feed, scoring from angles that don't make sense, rewriting record books that barely had time to gather dust.
00:19:58
Because Next doesn't wait for an invitation, and Hyundai doesn't either. Hyundai has always moved the future within reach.
00:20:03
Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle. Hyundai did it by engineering EVs with ultra-fast charging capability.
00:20:11
And Hyundai continues doing it every day. From robotics that change how people live to young athletes changing the game, the future isn't some far-off concept.
00:20:19
It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye.
00:20:25
If you're always on the lookout for a great audiobook or just want help figuring out what to listen to next, there's a podcast you should know about.
00:20:32
It's called Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club, hosted by Cal Penn. Each episode takes a closer look at some of the most talked about new audiobooks on Audible, spanning a wide range of genres from sci-fi and literary fiction to rom-coms, thrillers, and comedy.
00:20:46
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00:20:53
If you're looking for your next listen, this is a great place to start. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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Book your summer vacay today at CheapCaribbean.com. Goodbye. Well, then, let me tell you a little something about a man, and you may have heard of him.
00:21:52
He was an evil doctor during World War II named Marcel Petois. Oh, my God. I think that's how you say his name.
00:22:00
That sounds beautiful. I've watched a documentary about him. I've done a couple things.
00:22:06
I still can't remember how to pronounce his name. Petois sounds beautiful. P-E-T-I-O-T.
00:22:12
Petois. I mean, I took French for two years, so I'm pretty much a citizen. Yeah.
00:22:18
Okay. All right. So Marcel Petois was born January 7th, 1897 at... What did you write?
00:22:28
It's the eighth word and I'm stopped cold. No, it's oxer, I believe, or auxer, maybe.
00:22:35
Okay. A-U-X-E-R-R-E. You know what I might do for the rest of this story is replace French words with American ones.
00:22:42
So he was born January 17th, 1897 in Austin, France, a hundred miles south of Paris.
00:22:52
His neighbors allege that he enjoyed torturing animals from an early age. and they say his first arrest.
00:23:01
And a lot of people say that this is stuff that came up after his most famous arrest
00:23:08
and that it was just neighbors talking and making stuff up. But it doesn't seem out of the bounds of any story we've ever told before.
00:23:15
His first arrest was after he made sexual advances toward a male classmate, then fired his father's gun inside a classroom.
00:23:24
He was 11. Whoa! Shit. I was like, great. In college? That's fine. If you shoot a gun in college.
00:23:33
It's expected. It's like Van Wilder shit. So then between 1907, 1909, when he was between 10 and 12 years old, his parents told doctors that he was prone to convulsions and sleepwalking.
00:23:48
And he habitually wet his trousers and bed. Don't wet your trousers. That means head injury, probably, right?
00:23:54
A head injury and maybe that he was like a psychopath maybe from, or some serious
00:24:00
This organic brain issue is taking place. Classic shit. So classic. Let's get a swing in there.
00:24:08
Sorry. So. Thank you for belching away from. I just want everyone to know that she just keeps like you keep throwing like kind of throwing
00:24:15
yourself back onto the couch to belch and then coming back forward. It's not belching.
00:24:19
It's like a little hiccup. Just doing. No, it was a full. That was a full on belch.
00:24:22
Good. Okay. This is a this is a real ASMR episode in the bad way. Okay, so his mother dies in 1912.
00:24:31
His father takes a job 15 miles away. He has to stay with his aunt. Him and his brother go to live with his aunt.
00:24:38
And when he's staying with her, he gets expelled from one school. He gets sent back with his dad.
00:24:44
He gets expelled from another school. Jesus. All from, quote, overexcitement and, quote, unruly behavior.
00:24:50
So he's out of his mind. And then he finishes his education in a special academy in Paris in July of 1915.
00:25:00
So then when he's a teenager, he gets into the petty crime standard fare. He robs a mailbox.
00:25:07
But in court, he's found not guilty because of mental illness. So a pattern starts to set up pretty early of he does fucked up shit.
00:25:16
he claims insanity or gives them he tells them about stuff and they go oh no he doesn't
00:25:25
have to go to jail he's crazy and then he gets out and just keeps on doing stuff which
00:25:29
I think is could be a theory the psychopath learned early that if you say I have these things
00:25:35
then you never have to kind of pay for your crimes you just do whatever you want
00:25:39
yeah it's kind of what it seems like so in 1916 he's drafted into the French infantry to fight in World War I.
00:25:49
I typed World War I J. So I don't know if that was a side project. You know. Remember when World War I started and then it was A through before J?
00:26:05
Maybe what you're doing is you try to make an emoji of a smiley face. You know when someone does that and they don't have an iPhone and it's just a J?
00:26:12
Maybe it's World War smiley face. Oh my God. That's a cute war. It was. World War I is like, have you ever watched like a movie that's like a true to life World War I story where it's like.
00:26:23
It's the horrifyingest horrifying in Horrify Land. It's like everything was up close, like bayonet style, but then some mustard gas and they would go through.
00:26:34
It went on and on. Everything's wet. They killed millions of people. It's snowing.
00:26:37
You don't have fucking boots for snow. No, it's barbed wire. Trenches. Mud. Filled with water and rats.
00:26:44
It's like they went to a mud field and were like, let's settle it here. And then they just kept sending people.
00:26:51
The soldiers would come out and they would have to go to rest homes because they would have shell shock.
00:26:55
And they would just get sent back out over and over and over. Just a nightmare town.
00:26:59
Picture it, everyone. Put yourself there. Let's go there. Now, in a town called AISNE, he had been gassed, he was wounded, and then he exhibited signs of a mental breakdown.
00:27:15
Now, of course, it would make perfect sense that he would be doing that anyway. But he also could have been trying to get out of going there.
00:27:22
I would, too. 100%. He went to what they called them clinics and rest homes. So he got sent to a couple where he was arrested for stealing army blankets.
00:27:33
Hmm. Where are you going to go with that blanket, Marcel? What do you what? Marcel, how many do you even need?
00:27:37
I mean, you can't march with them. You're going to get caught by the guy that yells.
00:27:43
OK, he's jailed for that. And then they put him back onto the front in June of 1918.
00:27:50
Like three weeks later, he shoots himself in the foot, literally. Yeah, that's what I would have done.
00:27:55
And that's the thing that they, it used to be that they would, people would do that or put their hand up. Did you ever, there was a movie where the guy puts his hand up and gets his hand shot off and then he's a, what is that? Cowardice? They, they court martial you for that.
00:28:08
Yeah. Anyway, he does that. He gets diagnosed with amnesia, sleepwalking, depression and suicidal tendencies.
00:28:17
And he ends up getting discharged with a 40 percent disability pension. Then in September of 1920, his case gets reviewed and they up the rating to 100 percent.
00:28:28
Oh, my God. It would be very fascinating. I want to. There's so much in this story.
00:28:33
It's crazy. I honestly do. I say it all the time, but I really do want to read a book about this one.
00:28:37
because to figure out or to read about, was it him learning the system and gaming it?
00:28:44
Or was he fucking bananas? Yeah, and did the bananas build into what his crimes that came later?
00:28:49
The bananas. The bananas build the whole banana tree. Okay, so the person that reviewed that
00:28:58
and said he should have 100% disability also suggested that he be committed to an asylum.
00:29:04
but he had already entered a mental hospital not as a patient he had gone through an accelerated education
00:29:12
program for war veterans and he'd gone to in 8 months he finished medical school
00:29:17
and he was serving a 2 year psychiatric internship see he's putting it on he's putting the whole thing on
00:29:23
I couldn't do that I'm a fucking sound well because he's a from what they say he was a super genius
00:29:31
that's part He's like a supervillain. Me too. True, true. So anyway, so now he's like, it's like the patients are running the asylum.
00:29:44
Anyway, so fascinating. I wish we could just see like, all I want is like a 10 second video clip of him.
00:29:50
I know it doesn't exist and it's impossible, but wouldn't that be cool? Well I tell you this If you want to think about him while I tell you the story he has kind of crazy Ron Lynch hair That doesn help many people who are listening Sorry Well you know what He has kind of Steven hair
00:30:05
Steven hair! He's got hair that it looks like he throws it back and forth in every direction across his head all the time.
00:30:12
Because it's like floofy? Yeah. Well, there's a lot of body and some curl. And he also has a mustache.
00:30:20
Steven! Are you a time traveler? Here's the difference, though. and we're going to keep our eye on you steven one of his eyes is way bigger than the other so
00:30:30
there's a picture of him that kept coming up when he i was trying to find like videos on youtube
00:30:34
and it it looks like a cartoon of a surprised person but that's what his face looked like
00:30:40
surprise i'm a psychopath surprise my eyes look crazy um he yeah he gets his degree on december
00:30:49
15th, 1921 from Faculté de Médecins de Paris. That was great. Thank you. I got super scared
00:30:57
in the middle. And then he becomes a full-on doctor. What the fuck? It says full-fledged on the paper because I couldn't pasted it.
00:31:04
So then he starts a practice in Villeneuve sur Ion. I mean and he's getting paid
00:31:15
not by his patients who come to see him and then he's also still getting government assistance.
00:31:22
And he's on tons of drugs. So he's one of those doctors that's like, you know, popping pills the whole time.
00:31:28
They're all on drugs, right? I mean, wouldn't Ruby? Yeah. Because also you have to know how drugs work.
00:31:33
You have to take them a little bit. Yeah. You have to kind of educate yourself. Right.
00:31:37
But then also you just have them around. Yeah. Freebies. It's like me with those fucking peanut M&Ms.
00:31:42
I can't keep my hand out of that thing. Anyhow. Oh, you. Okay, so they believe his first victim is a woman named Louise Deleveau, and she is the daughter of one of his elderly patients.
00:31:58
He starts having an affair with her in 1926, and soon after that affair starts, their home is burglarized and set on fire.
00:32:09
and they suspect him, Marcel Petois and then Louise disappears May 1926. The woman
00:32:21
he's having an affair with disappears. That's right. So it's like they're dating
00:32:25
it's all going off. She's like he might be the one. Did you say she was elderly? Her relative was
00:32:31
elderly who went, it's almost like the young girl brought the old grandma to the doctor
00:32:35
and then he's like well hello. Hello to you young lady. And hello to you. Okay, so the neighbors
00:32:43
say that they saw Patois load a big trunk into his car. And then weeks later, one is fished out
00:32:53
of a river that looks very similar to the one that they saw him loading into his car.
00:32:57
And when they fish it out of the river, it's filled with dismembered, decomposed remains of a young woman who's never
00:33:03
identified. And the police, after learning all of that cell hole setup decide that she's a runaway.
00:33:13
No! Yeah. You know those fucking 1920s French runaways. They throw on their beret and they're fucking out of there.
00:33:20
They get the fuck out of there. You can kind of get a baguette anywhere so you could be on the road for as long as you wanted.
00:33:26
That's true. Back in the day. Later days. Oroguan, motherfuckers. That's right. Bring that red lipstick, girl.
00:33:31
Girl. Just throw it in your pocket and smoke. Okay. the same year now it's going to seem like i'm changing the subject to
00:33:38
a different podcast he runs for mayor where you're like yeah you oops i i was doing another paper on something else and i combined
00:33:50
the two yeah i'm like what wikipedia article is this that i'm cutting and pasting now no this
00:33:54
guy is all over the place he's he's got a ton of energy he's got wild eyes because he has all the
00:34:00
meds he needs. I bet he's just taking coke pills. For real. Can I have a coke pill
00:34:04
please? I mean here's the downside. We were actually talking about this the other night
00:34:08
because I was telling somebody one of my speed in the 90s resulting in seizure stories
00:34:16
and I was like everybody thinks you do this, you go through this thing and you're like 20s
00:34:20
and 30s where you're like I can just kind of do whatever and then it's like your
00:34:24
late 30s and early 40s is when you find out you absolutely can't. Like there's going to be a bottom drop
00:34:30
out of this kind of casual Adderall phase that everyone goes through, which God bless,
00:34:35
no judgment. Yeah. But like, you can't do it forever and you got to make a plan for when you stop because
00:34:40
it's bad for you. Like your heart valves and shit. Oh no. Be careful. Okay. As for someone who is on fucking permanent seizure medication, let me just tell you from
00:34:49
the other side of that, it's not pretty and it hasn't happened yet. It's going to be like the new like mesothelioma ads that are on TV.
00:34:57
Do you think I'm going to be like fucked in any way? How much do you take? Have you ever had a heart attack?
00:35:03
Not yet. Should I do it right now? Well, let's just keep our eye on that. I mean, listen, everybody's doing what they need to do.
00:35:10
You know what I mean? These days, especially. Okay, so he's out leading the people.
00:35:15
Oh, right. The mayor thing. Yeah. What the fuck? We have to get back into the story that doesn't make any sense with what I have been telling
00:35:22
you about. Okay. Can he lay low? No, he cannot. He's a psychopath. He's like, he's got it.
00:35:28
He's got the world on a string. Oh my God. So he hires an accomplice. The reason he won is because he hired an accomplice to disrupt a political debate with his opponent.
00:35:39
So he wins. Like he basically fucked with his opponent and then won. Then he, once he's in office, embezzles from the town.
00:35:48
Jesus, dude. This guy's living his life. He's just, you know what it is? I feel like, and this does remind me of being on speed.
00:35:55
It that thing of when you in the moment you like fuck it Yes Or fuck it Like you just decide to grasp it while you can Yeah I going to do all of the crazies Do it all
00:36:05
Just pretend like nothing's going to happen in an hour or a day. Just go for it.
00:36:10
Okay. Okay, in 1927, he marries a woman named Georgette. La bla. Oh, blah. It's not like he said, blah, blah.
00:36:19
Blah, blah. Georgette, blah, blah. Je t'ocs au matcha. Oh, no, Georgette. And they have a son named Gerhardt.
00:36:29
Sorry. Okay. Local authorities receive numerous complaints about his theft and shady financial dealings, as he's the mayor.
00:36:40
And he's eventually suspended in August of 1931 and resigns. The village council also resigned in sympathy.
00:36:48
I don't know what a village council is, but it sounded like he had manipulated people in the town so much and gotten them convinced that, like, no, he's the best.
00:36:57
That when they were like, you can't be the mayor anymore, they were like, we're going to.
00:37:02
Oh, my God. Yeah. Five weeks later, on October 18th, he's elected as a counselor for the Yon District, Y-O-N-N-E.
00:37:11
It's like Yvonne with Novi. Unless something happened. Unless there was a V. No, there is Yvonne.
00:37:18
Maybe the V dropped off the page when I wasn't paying attention. Yvonne France. She wears so much perfume.
00:37:25
1932, he's accused of stealing electric power from the village near. That's quaint.
00:37:32
Isn't that quaint? He's like hooking some shit up. Yeah. He's like, what? It's just for my RV.
00:37:40
But he'd moved it. By the time they figured that out, they were like, you're off the council.
00:37:44
And he'd already moved to Paris. So it didn't matter. And while he's there, he sets up a new practice and he makes up all these credentials and all these people are like, oh, my God, you heard of this guy?
00:37:55
He's the new doctor. You can't Google it. Exactly right. LinkedIn him. It's all word of mouth.
00:38:00
He probably got the one influential person made him love him. Gave him a Coke pills.
00:38:05
That's right. But while outwardly charming and popular with most of his patients, he secretly enrolled
00:38:12
them for state medical assistance, thereby ensuring that he was paid twice for each treatment.
00:38:17
So he's like a Medicare scammer from Jump, the original. And he favored addictive narcotics in his prescription.
00:38:27
So he was just giving people fucked up shit. When one pharmacist complained of the near fatal dose that he prescribed for a child,
00:38:35
His reply was, what difference does it make to you? Because I don't want children to be dead.
00:38:41
Isn't it better to do away with this kid who's not doing anything in the world but pestering its mother?
00:38:48
So not a lot of compassion. I mean, it doesn't feel like that's his angle or filter on life.
00:38:55
This kid who's not doing anything. He's just kind of sick. Just needs a little bit of help from a doctor.
00:39:02
What do kids do? I mean, I guess back then they worked in the coal mines and shit.
00:39:07
They were like, oh, I'd love some speed. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. But the mother has to intervene.
00:39:12
Okay. And then in 1936, he's appointed the Médecins d'État civil with authority.
00:39:20
So he can now write death certificates. They just keep going, you're really fucked up.
00:39:27
Here's a little bit more responsibility. Can you take over this project? We just want to help you kill people a little more.
00:39:32
Yeah. yeah so um and that same year he's institutionalized for kleptomania uh-huh um so after the so then world war ii breaks out okay all right and you mean world war k
00:39:48
jk world war 1k um roman numerals we've gone into roman world wars so france falls and uh
00:39:59
Uh, he started, of course, now he's just taking advantage. He's doing, he's giving people weird fake certificates saying people are sick when they're
00:40:07
not to get out of shit. And he's like basically running kind of a black markety situation.
00:40:12
And he's convicted in 1942 of over prescribing narcotics. Um, but when he's going to go to court and there's two addicts that were going to testify
00:40:23
against him, the cops got them to flip on him. They disappeared. So, uh, he ended up just being fined.
00:40:28
I bet they're in the attic. 20 foot. Attic. They're in the attic's attic. Yes. So he's fined 2,400 francs and they're just like, great, please don't do it anymore.
00:40:39
Oops, this guy's disappeared. So you're off the hook. Yeah. He brags to anyone who listened that he's developing secret weapons that can kill Germans without leaving forensic evidence.
00:40:51
That he's having high level meetings with allied commanders. That he's fighting for this resistance group and that resistance group all over town.
00:40:59
he's talking telling stories about that he's planting booby traps around paris all this shit
00:41:04
he even says that he works with a group of anti-fascist spaniards turns out that group
00:41:10
never existed oh my god um nor did many of the things that he talked about um but the thing that
00:41:17
he stumbled upon that made him the most money and started off the reason he eventually became famous
00:41:23
is he started his own false escape route out of occupied France. Explain that to me.
00:41:31
Called Fly Talk. So basically the Germans invade Paris and they take over and then they start saying, you Jews can only live in this area
00:41:41
and you can only go to the, oh, get on the train. So of course everyone's trying to get out of France.
00:41:46
And he's like, I can get you out. All you need is 25,000 francs. Come to my house.
00:41:51
He's one of those. Let's do this. Yeah So uh his code name is Dr Eugene I don I think he made that up Well that not really cunning It not cool sounding
00:42:05
So all it took was if you had the money. And he basically said he could arrange safe passage to Argentina or somewhere else in South America through Portugal.
00:42:17
So he got people to come to his office or his apartment. and he told them that the Argentinian officials needed them to be inoculated so that he had to
00:42:28
give them a shot. And then he, he gave them a shot that was cyanide, killed them, took all of
00:42:34
their belongings and their money and disposed of their bodies. And they were, and all the people
00:42:42
that, that heard about him and went to him in secret to get out of France were never seen again.
00:42:47
Oh, no. So at first he dumped the bodies in the Seine, but he later destroyed them by submerging them in quick line or burning them in this basement.
00:42:59
So in 1941, he buys a house at 21 Rue Le Seur. And what he fails to do is, again, keep a low profile.
00:43:09
So the Gestapo finds out that there's this dude, Dr. Eugene, that's getting Jews and resistance fighters and all these people, whoever has $25,000 out of France, Franks.
00:43:20
Um, so they send an, like a spy named Robert Judkin. Um, I'm sorry, an agent, a Gestapo agent named Robert Judkin makes a force, a prisoner named
00:43:36
Yvonne Dreyfus says, you have to go be a spy. Go contact this guy. Say you're trying to get out of Germany.
00:43:42
Um, he disappears. Oh no. So then now the Nazis are, are onto him. Oh shit. Um, so then, uh, uh, okay.
00:43:53
So on March 6th, 1944, this is just get to the good part. Cause this is fucking crazy.
00:43:58
And this is where I stumbled upon a documentary about this. And this is where the documentary starts.
00:44:03
And it was amazing. I watched like a third of it. It was incredible. I thought I hit record.
00:44:09
I had to go leave to do something else. Came back, didn't record it. Can't find it.
00:44:14
Can't find it on you. I can't find it anywhere, but it started here. And the way they told it was so good that I was like, this is the best story.
00:44:21
So March 6, 1944, there's smoke coming from the chimney, the chimney of that house.
00:44:29
And then it smells so bad and it's burning and burning and burning. So the neighbors complain.
00:44:35
And five days later, they in a group go to the police and they're just like, someone's
00:44:39
got to do something about the smell coming out of this house and the smoke coming out
00:44:42
of this house. so when they all go down to the front door on March 11th they find a note on the door that says
00:44:50
I'll be back in a month so they find out that he also lives in that other house he has two houses
00:45:00
so the police call that house it's two miles away they call that house and the Pitois answers the phone and says, have you gone inside yet? And the police are like, no. And he
00:45:13
goes, okay, don't do anything. I'll be there in 15 minutes. And they're like, okay. And then he
00:45:18
never shows up. So half an hour later, it's now fully engulfed fire and they have to call the
00:45:23
fire department so that the other buildings nearby don't burn down. And when the fire department
00:45:27
breaks into the second story window, they come upon a scene that's just bodies and body parts
00:45:34
everywhere they look. So then Patois arrives and when the police are like, what the fuck is going on in your house?
00:45:43
He's like, I'm a member of the French Resistance and I've been luring Germans and Nazis to that
00:45:49
apartment and killing them. And of course, everyone, all the French people were like, great, this is
00:45:55
perfect. I hate those guys. Yeah, don't worry about this. And so they didn't arrest him
00:46:00
because everyone was like, well, he's part the resistance let's keep it up yeah and or talk about it but then they search the garage and that's
00:46:08
when they find a pit filled with quicklime with human remains still in it um then on the staircase
00:46:16
there's a canvas sack with human remains inside and enough body parts for at least 10 complete
00:46:22
bodies what the fuck um and then the basement is had sinks that were large enough for draining
00:46:29
corpses of their blood. And there's a soundproof octagonal chamber with wall-mounted shackles
00:46:36
and a peephole in the center of the door. Oh my god, what a creep. Yeah, so they're not, this isn't just
00:46:41
like trick a spy into coming to your basement and kill them. There's something else going on.
00:46:47
And so, but they don't know if he truly is a member of the resistance or if he's a German.
00:46:53
Like being like a double agent or whatever. And so as the The veteran Paris police commissioner, Georges Victor Marseille, I'm going to stop doing that.
00:47:05
I'm sorry. He runs the investigation. And while he's there investigating this crime scene, it's 1.30 in the morning.
00:47:13
They get a telegram from police, Paris police headquarters from the Germans, the occupying.
00:47:19
I mean, they keep saying Germans in this Murderpedia. There's like, you know, seven articles on Murderpedia.
00:47:25
They keep saying Germans, but I think Germans in occupied France were Nazis. I don't. Right. I would think so.
00:47:33
Let me know when I'm wrong. America. So they get they get a telegram from the Nazis saying, quote, order from German authorities, arrest Patois, dangerous lunatic.
00:47:47
So then they're like, OK, he's not a German. Yeah. So in his other apartment, they find it abandoned, but they find large amounts of chloroform, digitalis and other poisons.
00:48:00
in addition to large amounts of unusual medical remedies. So they find a man who had gone to him, to Patois, to escape,
00:48:14
but had ended up changing his mind. And he said Patois had offered him passage to South America for $25,000.
00:48:21
So then while they're going through that basement with all the body parts, they find the remains of the two drug addicts that were going to testify against him
00:48:29
in that narcotics case. And now they know there's, it's the proof that those witnesses were murdered
00:48:36
and that this guy was not being a noble Frenchman that was trying to fight the resistance.
00:48:42
Then they get his brother Maurice and Maurice immediately cracks and is like, yep, we delivered quick climb to this apartment.
00:48:50
We also, his wife Georgette was arrested on suspicion of aiding him And his accomplices, Nesodette Porchon and Albert and Simon Neuhausen, confess that they helped remove up to 40 suitcases from the house.
00:49:10
Why does anyone need 40 suitcases is what they should have asked. If you have 50 bodies, you're going to need at least 40 suitcases.
00:49:19
So then the investigation comes to a halt because the invasion of Normandy happens.
00:49:26
so everyone's like sorry about this insane like multiple murderer we've got to go yeah so for
00:49:33
seven months patois hides with his friends he grows a beard changes his appearance he has all
00:49:39
these different aliases he has friends well i mean but he told the friends that he was fighting for
00:49:45
the french resistance yeah so they were like yeah hide him here and you know it was that that whole
00:49:49
story the paris police rose up against and and the and the citizens um and the resistant rose
00:49:56
up against the German troops in Paris, the Nazis occupying France. That's when Petois changes his name to Henri Valéry, and he joins the French forces of
00:50:08
the interior, becomes a captain in charge of counter espionage and prisoner interrogations,
00:50:14
and basically is in the mix with the resistance for real. Shit. Yeah. So then somewhere in that time, his defense lawyer for that narcotics trial that he got off on gets that lawyer gets a letter from Patois saying that there was an article in a newspaper called Resistance that was all about Patois and what he did.
00:50:40
And so he took the time to send his lawyer, his old lawyer, a letter saying, look, that article is all lies.
00:50:46
So now the police know he's still in France. Yeah. So there's a manhunt across France to find him or across Paris, I should say.
00:50:56
But he ends up participating in the manhunt for himself as Henri Valéry. Oh, my God. Which is fucking rad. Yeah.
00:51:06
OK, so he's he's recognized finally at the Paris metro station on October 31st and he's arrested.
00:51:11
um among his possessions were a pistol uh he had over 30 000 francs on him and 50 sets of
00:51:20
identity documents um which were a lot of them probably victims how many suitcases did he have
00:51:25
he was like those families at lax they're just stacking them up like where are you going and
00:51:32
what are you fucking bringing you're a bad packer you can buy anything anywhere there's a cvs
00:51:37
on the remotest island. What are you doing? Yeah. Yes. Okay. He's put on death row.
00:51:46
He says he's innocent and he's a great fighter for the resistance. And he also says
00:51:51
that he found the pile of bodies at that apartment in February of 1944. He assumed that
00:51:58
they were all collaborators that the members of his network had killed. So he was just like,
00:52:05
well, just leave him there then. Yeah, that's only right. That's not my problem.
00:52:09
Well, the police look into all his stories about his time with the resistance and all the freedom fighting that he did.
00:52:14
Found out he had no friends in any of the major resistance groups. There was no proof of any of the exploits that he claimed, like booby trapping all of Paris.
00:52:23
And most of the groups that he named never existed in the first place. So the anti-fascist Spaniards he was talking about all made up.
00:52:31
Um, so they eventually charge him with 27 murders for profit. And he, he basically took these people for an estimated 200 million francs.
00:52:45
Holy shit. So he goes on trial March 19th, 1946. He's facing 135 criminal charges altogether.
00:52:51
Um, and his lawyer, René Florois, I'm trying to bug myself, is up against a prosecution
00:52:59
team that's the state prosecutors plus 12 civil lawyers all hired by the relatives of
00:53:05
the victims that are just like, go fucking get him. And he basically tried to say in court that
00:53:13
the victims were collaborators or double agents like they deserve to die. Or that
00:53:19
they were living in South America under new names and that they're all fools or whatever.
00:53:24
He did admit to killing 19 of the 27 victims in his house but he claimed they were Germans and collaborators.
00:53:31
His lawyer attempted to make him look like a resistance hero, but nobody, the judge, the jury, nobody bought it.
00:53:38
So he ended up being convicted of 26 counts of murder, sentenced to death, and on May 25th,
00:53:47
after a stay of a few days because there was a problem with the mechanism in the guillotine, he was beheaded.
00:53:54
Oh, my God. That our guy Marcel Petrois Bonjour I want to see a photo of him Wow that was great Thank you
00:54:05
Fuck him. Okay, we're back. Karen, any updates? We don't have any updates, but we did get a really interesting email in 2019.
00:54:17
the subject line of the email was episode 98 info about Marcel Patois German versus Nazi and thank
00:54:25
you okay and it says Karen Georgia and livestock this is this is a little bit long but it's kind
00:54:30
of worth it it says I'm writing about episode 98 in which Karen covered French doctor and serial
00:54:36
killer Marcel Patois in preparing for a family trip to Paris in 2017 I became an avid researcher
00:54:43
of the best places to visit for a history and architecture lover like myself. I came across a
00:54:48
book in my local library called Death in the City of Light, the Serial Killer of Nazi-Occupied Paris.
00:54:54
What a dark, twisted tale and man. The book provided location maps in Paris, including the
00:55:00
house that neighbors reported burning, which led to Patois being found out and arrested. The book
00:55:05
also covers his meetings with specific victims and how he manipulated them to come to his home
00:55:10
in the first place. It also covers the trial of Patois, which was one of the most frustrating
00:55:16
reads I've ever had to get through. He was absolutely nuts and tried to dominate the
00:55:20
courtroom throughout, though through his own words and statements, one sees what a controller
00:55:24
and a lunatic he actually was. In its day, the trial was very much like paparazzi frenzied trials
00:55:30
of notorious or famous people for today. It was a gawker's paradise, and he was at the center of
00:55:35
all of it, enjoying the limelight. Karen mentioned a documentary about the case, but that she had
00:55:40
never been able to find it, so I wanted to share the book title for anyone who wants to know more.
00:55:45
And as an aside, there was a question raised in this episode about whether it was correct to say
00:55:49
France was occupied by Germany or Nazis. The German state was Nazi-led during World War II.
00:55:55
It would be correct to say German-occupied as Germany was led and represented by the Nazi party,
00:56:00
which carried out the horrific Nazi agenda we all know today. Sad for the German people,
00:56:05
but theirs is a huge cautionary tale for the world about extremism, gullibility, and nationalism
00:56:11
that we shouldn't water down. And then they say, this is not a correction of what Karen said,
00:56:15
just a reminder that the people of a country, no matter if they agree with the controlling party
00:56:20
in their government or not, share the responsibility for what their leaders do. We are experiencing that in this country right now. This is from 2019.
00:56:29
That's crazy. We're experiencing that in this country right now with the immigrant camps being set up to
00:56:34
house women and children trying to come to America. These are American immigrant camps,
00:56:39
and as such, we are all responsible for what is happening in those places, in our name,
00:56:44
at the hands of our current leaders. No less was true for the German state during World War II.
00:56:50
Thank you guys for doing your thing. Really enjoy it. Wow. I can't believe that's from 2019.
00:56:54
I mean, what a nightmare. You know there's now a children's detention center in Texas
00:56:59
just for immigrant children by themselves. A nightmare idea. And there's been a bunch of people
00:57:05
that have like dedicated, you know, their time and their voices to like trying to get it shut down.
00:57:11
But it's like this government that we are living under, people, this is what fascism is.
00:57:18
It's such a good point of like, yeah, you know, I would have been like, well, it's Nazi occupied,
00:57:23
but yeah, it's German occupied. And this is why you have to vote is because whatever represents us
00:57:29
represents the entirety. That's right. You can't just do the red states. This is like everybody has to let go of those old Chevy commercials that used to make us feel so
00:57:38
good in the summertime because this is not baseball, hot dogs, apple pie and Chevrolet
00:57:43
anymore. This shit is ugly and it's bad and it's getting worse by the day. It's evil. It's evil. It's so bad. Well, that's what this podcast is for. That's what we're here
00:57:53
for. That's what The Rewind is here for, because we've been since this fucking podcast started,
00:57:59
we've been talking about this. It's crazy. Yeah. Well, all right. It's time to get into
00:58:04
Georgia's story right now. It's true crime. What choice? Where do you want to look right now?
00:58:09
You click play on a podcast called My Favorite Murder. So yeah, yeah, you're in it. You're in
00:58:14
it for the long haul. This is Georgia's story about the murder of Peggy Hetrick.
00:58:17
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If you're looking for your next listen, this is a great place to start. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club, on the iHeartRadio app,
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01:00:30
Goodbye. Oh, we're back from a little break. And when I was peeing, I looked it up and the Instagram with the melting nail lipstick is called Watch It Melt.
01:00:41
Sweet. So I checked that out. That's like the whole account? Uh-huh. Yes. Yeah, it's pretty great.
01:00:45
Okay. So we talked about this recently. This is the story of the murder of Peggy Hetrick.
01:00:51
Remember her? Mm-mm. Let's. You will. Okay. On the morning of February 11th, 1987, a bicyclist investigates what he thinks is a mannequin laying in the field in Fort Collins, Colorado.
01:01:07
What it actually is, is the body of 37-year-old Peggy Hetrick. And she said her purse is still slung around her shoulder.
01:01:18
Belongings are inside. There's a half-smoked cigarette and a pool of blood nearby.
01:01:22
there's a trail of blood a hundred feet from her body to the small pool on the curb her bra
01:01:30
blouse and black coat have been pushed up above her breasts and her underwear and jeans are pulled
01:01:36
down to her knees i remember you know this conversation now yes yes yes wow okay yeah
01:01:43
at the scene investigators collect two hairs they're not her hair and 13 fingerprints from
01:01:49
her purse that aren't hers. And they, um, they also, uh, okay. So they, they theorize that
01:01:57
Peggy's killer, they think that they stabbed her as she was walking along the road, right by where
01:02:02
she was next to the field, you know, um, because she had been killed with one stab wound and then
01:02:07
picked her up and perhaps by the wrists and dragged her into the field. That's what they
01:02:12
think happened um they also there was also 28 footprints going around and they poured they took
01:02:19
photos of all of them but they only plastered uh eight of them so according to the coroner she died
01:02:25
from a single stab wound in the upper left back wasn't that crazy like one stab wound and she like
01:02:30
died pretty quickly from it yeah it's almost like he knew where to stab you someone to kill them
01:02:35
she likely died early in the morning her body had been sexually mutilated here we go there's a
01:02:44
precise removal of her nipple and areola as well as a female circumcision including what one doctor
01:02:52
described as a partial vulvectomy oh no yeah a procedure that requires high skill and quality
01:03:00
surgical equipment to perform. So the, the knife she was stabbed with is not the same tool that
01:03:05
was used to sexually mutilate her. Jesus Christ. I know. God, I feel like I'm numb to this shit now
01:03:11
a little bit. Well, it seems to happen a lot. Yeah. I mean, it's not, I think that's part of
01:03:16
it. It happens all the time and people pretend like it's some kind of distant, creepy, crazy
01:03:22
thing. And it's like, no, pretty much happens all the time. All the time. Yeah. It's horrifying.
01:03:27
Yeah. So there's neat cuts. It's all like that. Blah, blah, blah. OK, so let's talk about Peggy.
01:03:36
She's a small woman, about 115 pounds, flaming red hair, really pretty woman. She works at a department store and described by friends as fun loving, artistic.
01:03:46
She was kind of an Annie Hall type and she was working on her novel in her free time about diamond smugglers.
01:03:53
It was fiction. Sounds fucking fun. I wish I could read that. So after leaving work at around 9 p.m.
01:04:00
the night before, February 10th, 1987, she is locked out of her apartment because her friend who
01:04:06
she is letting stay there fell the fuck asleep and she couldn't wake her up. And so she goes to a couple local bars
01:04:12
and she, by about 1230, she's at the Prime Minister Pub and Grill and she runs into her sometimes
01:04:22
boyfriend, Matt Zollner. He's a local car salesman. He's there with another woman, but they hug and kiss and talk.
01:04:29
He offers her a ride home, but she ends up leaving by herself at 115 in the morning.
01:04:35
So six hours and less than 500 yards later, her body is found. Wow. Yeah. So, so then the investigators are canvassing the area. There's some houses nearby. There's
01:04:46
some trailers. They're talking to people, seeing if they saw anything, especially the people whose
01:04:49
windows face the field. And they, uh, they talk to the father of a 15 year old high school student
01:04:56
named Timothy Masters. Cause he, and the father says that he watched his son leave for school
01:05:02
that morning and deviate from his usual path across the field and stop at something and then
01:05:08
keep walking to his normal, uh, his normal route. So they live in a mobile home about a hundred feet
01:05:14
from where Peggy's body had been found. So Timothy's pulled out of class, and the Lieutenant Jim Roderick,
01:05:23
he's running the show. He's in charge of the investigation. They interrogate 15-year-old Timothy for 10 hours.
01:05:30
He's alone. He said that the reason he didn't call the police, he had seen the body that morning,
01:05:36
but he thought it was a mannequin. He thought, and then later he was like, that was weird, there's something wrong.
01:05:44
with someone playing a prank on me. Like he didn't get it. Yeah. You know, it was just 15, 15.
01:05:49
Can you, and it's like, that's the thing of like, your brain doesn't want it to be a mannequin.
01:05:54
So like or to be a body So but throughout the day it feels it seems like he was kind of figuring out what was going on in his mind And if you came upon a dead body of a mutilated woman
01:06:05
not just a stabbed woman, but like a terribly mutilated woman, I think that would put you
01:06:10
into a kind of trauma state. Yeah. Shock mode. Yeah. Where you would, and also this wasn't
01:06:16
the time of cell phones. This was a while ago. So he would have to keep walking to school to
01:06:21
tell anybody yeah and then maybe by the time he got there he was like couldn't deal with like
01:06:26
couldn't talk about it and i saw a photo of the crime scene she kind of does look like a mannequin
01:06:31
like she's so pale her red hair you know it's just like and the guy the you know the adult who ended
01:06:38
up calling the police the bicyclist thought it was a mannequin too and he's an adult so you know
01:06:42
it's not out of the realm of possibility um but uh he says he's innocent as fuck he they administer
01:06:51
lie detector test. Results were inconclusive, of course. But he is on the top of the suspect
01:06:58
list because he just because he didn't tell police about the body. Right. So they search
01:07:04
his home. They search the sinks for blood. They search the school locker. They search
01:07:10
his clothes to see if there's blood or anything. And instead they find and confiscate 2200
01:07:16
pages of writing and violent artwork that Timothy had in his bedroom that he saved.
01:07:21
He was kind of like a meticulous saver and saved all of his journals and shit. And they, let's see, in his bedroom backpack and school locker, and he has a knife collection
01:07:32
and pornography. And this is the 80s, and that's not okay. Yeah. So there's no trace of Peggy's blood or hair at all anywhere, including on his clothes and the knife collection.
01:07:47
But police are like convinced it's him. And these drawings, I'm sure you've seen them.
01:07:51
They're like 15 year old metalhead, a 1987 boy drawings. And they're fucked up for sure.
01:07:57
Yes, they're definitely fucked up. Yes, I've seen like there's a some kind of a 2020 type of thing.
01:08:04
I'll show you all of them. and but it's also that thing where so is like metal art is fucked up it's like eddie from the
01:08:12
iron maiden album covers it's one of the scary i remember seeing that album cover for the first
01:08:16
time at the record store and shitting a brick it was like it's a skeleton with long white hair
01:08:21
that's like and long fingernails coming at you it was part of that part of it yeah you're supposed
01:08:26
to be like it's fucked up and scary and you know i'm brave and he's just like you know he's like
01:08:32
this kind of loner skinny kid like long messy hair uh not a lot of friends his mom had died
01:08:40
four years earlier he lived in a trailer with his dad so he sounded like he was kind of a
01:08:45
drifter type of kid probably got bullied and beaten have getting the shit beaten out of him
01:08:51
constantly right uh so the shit he was drawing you know skeletons with knives and like and a lot
01:08:57
of like shit against women too like it's not pretty right for sure yeah um it would just be
01:09:04
interesting if they like searched all the lockers and pulled out all the boy art right finding it's
01:09:10
not there's not a draw me like when you're a french lady's situation happening in high school
01:09:14
yeah when you're your most like fucked up and unhappy and uncomfortable totally yeah so okay
01:09:20
So acquaintance of Peggy said that she that Peggy had recently been concerned over someone she had been dating.
01:09:29
They ruled out her ex, her sometimes boyfriend that she had seen the night before because a woman said that, you know, she had gone home with him.
01:09:38
But this dude Broderick, Jim Broderick, the fucking lieutenant is laser focused on.
01:09:43
He is like convinced, even though there's a lot of other investigators that are like, we don't they don't think it's him.
01:09:48
but he is like doesn't really look into other anyone else um so timothy masters they but they
01:09:55
don't have enough to arrest him so he grows up he joins the navy sails around the world becomes an
01:10:00
aircraft mechanic he never has any discipline or problems or violent offenses he's honorably
01:10:05
discharged from the navy okay then the fast forward to 1996 um this detective jim roderick
01:10:13
asks a forensic psychologist in San Diego named Reed Malloy to study Timothy Masters,
01:10:21
you know, 15 year old fucked up artwork. Yeah. And he kind of had a weird reputation.
01:10:27
This guy, Reed Malloy, he is an expert witness on sexual homicides. He thinks that you can read a person's personality into this artwork, which is kind of debated
01:10:35
in the field. and he even disclosed that he was himself had sexually sadistic fantasies
01:10:44
so this guy's problematic hold on a second yeah that's not good but maybe he was saying that
01:10:52
it's human that kind of goes against what his thing is because basically is the argument that everybody has them
01:10:59
it's self expression because then you can't focus in and be like this that's like you wouldn't understand it unless you had it too yes yeah but also it's art art
01:11:13
self-expression is you know that's what art is for right and you really need to especially when
01:11:18
you don't think anyone else is going to see it yes it's private and you're like you're trying
01:11:23
to work some shit out yeah well i don't know anyway fuck man no it's fucked up okay so this
01:11:29
This dude, Reed Malloy, analyzes the writing and artwork extensively and concludes without ever having spoken to him, to Timothy Masters says that he that some of the drawings represented Masters reliving the crime.
01:11:46
So he was like, see this drawing where it looks kind of like they're dragging a body.
01:11:50
That's him reliving the crime. And then there's this one there's like it's this weird triangle with a stab wound in it.
01:11:58
And it looks... It looks like a stab wound for sure, but this dude is like, oh, it's a vagina and he's cutting
01:12:05
into it and it matches perfectly with the actual crime of Peggy's vagina getting mutilated.
01:12:13
So they think that he went to school, then went home and immediately started scribbling
01:12:18
in tons and tons of notebooks. No, they think some of the drawings are from after the murder, before they got the notebooks,
01:12:26
but most of them are before. But these ones... It was like fantasy. Right. So this triangle one was from before, but this other one was from after. It doesn't make sense.
01:12:37
Okay. And it's funny, too, because I watched the Cold Case episode about this, and it's before.
01:12:44
So this dude is like, it's totally him. He's the killer. And in August 1998, based on this, Jim Broderick goes to California and arrests 27-year-old Jim Masters for the murder of Peggy Hetrick based solely on this evidence and circumstantial evidence.
01:12:59
And 12 years later? Yeah. Jesus Christ. Over a thousand pages of Timothy Master's violent artwork are admitted into evidence, including the vagina drawing.
01:13:10
And so at the end of the trial, they held up like a close up photo of Peggy's wounds on her vagina next to a blown up photo of this triangle drawing and said it's chilling.
01:13:25
They're the same thing. And even the like, it's just so creepy. And then they also show it's the thing of like, I think in some cases, I mean, I've heard about you can't show that many horrifying photos of the body at the trial because it brings an emotional response to the jury. So instead of, you know, thinking about the facts or they're seeing these photos and, you know, so they had like photo after photo of what happened to her.
01:13:50
at the trial. So then they're just like, it doesn't matter if it's him or not. They just want this.
01:13:56
They want to get this solved and out of their mind. Or it's almost like, and I think this happened too,
01:14:02
where it was like, some people think where it was like, they weren't sure he did it,
01:14:06
but they saw this stuff over and over again. And they were like, well, what if it is?
01:14:10
And we know what happened. We can't let him go. Right. So, though some jurors had doubts about his guilt,
01:14:18
His drawings and writings were cited by the jury members as compelling evidence against him, and he is found guilty and sentenced to life in prison.
01:14:29
Okay. In 2004, cut to 2004, that's 99, 2004, Timothy Masters mounts an appeal on the grounds of ineffective counsel, and he gets a new defense team.
01:14:44
they begin investigating the case and they discover that evidence, including the hair that was found
01:14:48
on Hetrick that wasn't his, that wasn't Timothy's hair, and photographs of the fingerprints found
01:14:54
in her purse were all missing. And they had never been turned over to the defense. Or no, no,
01:14:58
they're missing now. Yes. So during the 2000 and blah, blah, blah. So they alleged the prosecutors
01:15:06
withheld evidence about links to another case that happened in the Fort Collins area about Dr.
01:15:13
Richard Hammond, who was potentially a suspect. Let's fucking talk about Dr. Richard Hammond,
01:15:17
everyone's favorite. So let's go back to 1995, seven years after the murder of Peggy. Dr. Richard
01:15:25
Hammond is an eye surgeon in the Fort Collins area. He's arrested for secretly filming women's
01:15:31
genitalia. I copied and pasted that, obviously, including his patients and in his own home
01:15:39
through fake ventilation grates in his downstairs bathroom. So he put fucking video in the toilet and they said video after video,
01:15:48
there were these highly calibrated shots zooming into the vaginal area of women in his toilet.
01:15:54
They were extreme close ups and they were almost microscopic. Investigators also found that Hammond kept thousands of dollars worth of pornography
01:16:01
hidden in a locked office and a storage shed in town, indicating an obsession with female genitalia.
01:16:07
He also had a secret bank account, secret apartment and a secret identity. And as a surgeon, he, of course, had the skills and equipment to perform the precision mutilation that was found on her body.
01:16:19
So it was it could have been a X-Acto knife or a razor blade. And in 1987, Hammond's bedroom window overlooked the location of where Peggy Hedrick's body was discovered.
01:16:32
And he was home the morning after the murder, despite his usually scheduled surgeries on that day of the week.
01:16:39
So that was out of character for him. Then, but no follow up investigation was ever done after that, after that, because he committed suicide several days after his arrest.
01:16:50
And Jim Broderick didn't look into it, didn't look at a connection. Maybe, you know, he maybe Peggy had been a client or a patient of his.
01:16:59
Who knows? And another weird twist, two weeks after Peggy's murder, a woman who was red haired and kind of looked like Peggy, who worked at the prime minister bar where Peggy had last been seen.
01:17:10
She's out front of the bar selling tickets. And here's someone behind her. And a man with, quote, a bodybuilder physique was glaring at her.
01:17:19
He pulled an icicle from behind his back and made several stabbing motions in the air.
01:17:23
What? And she said he had a bodybuilder physique. Dr. Hammond was a bodybuilder.
01:17:28
Sorry, he, an icicle from where? I don't know. I guess the roof. Jesus. I know. Yeah.
01:17:36
So it was argued that it couldn't actually have been done, the mutilation, because it
01:17:40
was so precise in the middle of a field in the dark like that. So it actually maybe happened somewhere else.
01:17:45
And then there was no way a 15 year old could perform that surgical procedure. Okay.
01:17:51
You'd think that that would be. Yeah Even though you saying that the lead detective was like on you know only which I know that happens But there those kinds of things where it like a logic problem Yeah a lot of it
01:18:05
Yes, this is a person that's like doing violent art and doing upsettingly violent art where there's an there's clearly a problem that like that has not been addressed in any way.
01:18:14
Yeah. But then you're just adding all this like 15 is like he can't drive yet. And he's the skinny little kid.
01:18:22
he so like carrying a person's body on his own isn't doesn't make any sense there's no blood
01:18:30
evidence anywhere on him it's like the the circumstantial evidence does not stand up to
01:18:34
the fucking evidence that it's not him except for and again it's what you're saying is the effect of
01:18:41
like pictures on people yeah and what you can read into pictures and what pictures make you feel
01:18:47
and how the power of that and then attributing what that power is and saying, I know what you meant when you drew this.
01:18:54
It makes sense in your head. Yeah. So I watched the Cold Case Files episode. So his case is going to get overturned.
01:19:00
But before they make the Cold Case episode as if when he gets sent to jail, he did it.
01:19:07
The end, period. Cold Case over. So the Cold Case isn't up to date. You don't mean Cold Case, the TV show with the blonde actress.
01:19:14
Cold Case Files. Okay. Okay. Okay. Sorry. I wasn't going to miss it. No, I'm glad you said that. I'm like, I based this all off of cold case files.
01:19:22
Cold case. So they're, so they actually, the, the prosecutors are interviewed in this because
01:19:28
they're like, yeah, look what we did. We solved it. And, and the one woman who was the prosecutor
01:19:33
was like, I saw the drawings and I thought I got it. You know, it's like, I got to chill
01:19:38
and I knew he did it. It's that shit. Yes, of course. And being able to watch that from a place of knowing he didn't is fucking creepy because
01:19:45
it's like it's totally in her gut she thinks he did it based on those looking at those photos
01:19:49
based on surface things yeah and that's which is how so much crime yeah gets prosecuted or ignored
01:19:56
yeah because then if you're also a clean cut uh rich guy then you're not you're not it's not
01:20:03
considered because that's beyond the imagination yeah because we all know who looks right and we
01:20:08
know who's responsible for things in society and then who's who does bad things and that's
01:20:13
You need it to keep it that simple to not freak out every day. This is bad. This is good.
01:20:18
In your little world, that makes total sense. And that's not like that. Nuance is a man.
01:20:23
If anything else, if nothing else, I mean, let this podcast be the place where we say
01:20:28
psychopaths are real good at dressing up like the good guy. Yeah. That's the whole idea.
01:20:32
Yeah. And psychopaths. You're not going to see crazy on the surface and someone who's really fucking good at it
01:20:38
and smart. Shit. Okay. Oh, and also her body appeared really clean. And an expert later told the legal team that a sponge line appeared to run down the side of her body like she had been sponged off.
01:20:51
Oh. Because there was like no blood on her body. Even though she'd been stabbed in the back and murdered with that stab.
01:20:58
I think there was blood on her, you know, in the back, but no blood on the front of her body.
01:21:03
No blood on her genitals? Yeah. Wow. Well, then it would have had to have been cleaned up.
01:21:08
Yeah. So they say that her body must have been washed. And they also tried to drag a woman the same size as Peggy through the field.
01:21:18
And it just can't be done with one person the size of Timothy. The size of a freshman in high school or sophomore.
01:21:25
Yeah. But he's a skinny little kid. Okay. Okay. So the arrest of Dr. Hammond and his subsequent suicide is information that's withheld from
01:21:37
the dude who was reading, who thinks he could fucking tell by the drawings, Dr. Malloy.
01:21:44
So he was never told about any of the circumstances around the case. Right. So that's withheld from him and other experts.
01:21:52
And the FBI was not informed of this case either to reconsider their profiling of Masters
01:21:58
from 1987. So they were never told that there could be another suspect. And so this Dr. Malloy's fucking pissed at them for that.
01:22:06
And he's like, I wouldn't have testified against, I wouldn't have testified for you guys if I had known this.
01:22:10
So in January 2008, advanced DNA testing is done in Europe on the clothes of Peggy.
01:22:17
And scientists found DNA on the cuffs of her blouse and on the waistband of her underwear that didn't match Timothy Masters.
01:22:25
And some of the genetic material, all of it left by skin cells, so it's the new touch DNA craziness,
01:22:31
is matched to Peggy's long time on again, off again boyfriend, the dude she was at,
01:22:37
saw at the bar. But she was hugging and kissing him. Yeah. So it might have been, but it just would have made it that he's the focus, not Timothy.
01:22:44
Of course. But he has, it doesn't sound like a really tight alibi, but he has an alibi.
01:22:51
Okay. So on January 22nd, 2008, a Colorado judge vacates Timothy Masters conviction and orders
01:22:57
him released immediately. and in June 2011 he says he's no longer a suspect in the murder
01:23:05
and he's completely exonerated. And how old is he now? I don't know how old he is but he spent 10 years in jail.
01:23:12
So he was arrested when he was 27 so he's, you know, almost 10 years, like 9 and a half years in jail.
01:23:18
I know. So the prosecutors are disciplined in the case and fucking Lieutenant Jim Broderick is like getting some crazy.
01:23:31
He's indicted on eight counts of felony first degree perjury for material false statements
01:23:36
he made with the arresting conviction. But the fucking three year statute of limitations for perjury is gone.
01:23:43
So even though this kid spent 10 fucking years and you can't get that back, his statute of
01:23:48
limitations. I hate statute of limitations. OK, but then he's indicted again. They like no dude nine counts this time But those charges are also dismissed but he resigns Yeah I would hope Yeah So the county settles with Timothy Masters for initially he basically gets almost
01:24:10
million. Holy shit. Yeah. A million dollars a year for going to jail. Yeah. Fuck.
01:24:14
Take it or leave it? No, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. No. In your voice, it almost sounded like, that's easy.
01:24:22
Well, I could do that. I didn't think that was passing through my head, but I mean, obviously no fucking way.
01:24:27
Of course not. It's living hell. Of course not. So I don't know anyone that would.
01:24:32
No, there's nobody. Right. I mean, unless people have been like, no, I like my cousins are all on the inside and
01:24:38
I'll be fine. If you had some kind of guarantee of protection, you were the head of some jail gang or some
01:24:44
shit like that. Or like, you know, those, all those stories of like the, um, when like the, the mafia
01:24:49
guys go to jail and they have like their own, you know, they have their own lazy boy chair
01:24:53
and stuff like their shit. I don't even have a lazy boy chair and I'm not in jail.
01:24:56
I must be thinking of like, oh, Goodfellas or whatever, where they're like making pasta and stuff like that.
01:25:02
I bet it's like that. For some people. I bet it is. But I bet it's a real, it really drops off if you don't have that.
01:25:09
Yeah. On year three, you're like, oh, this might have been a mistake. I could have maybe made money.
01:25:13
Yeah. Like the lottery. Yeah. Which is also why we all have to remember there's a lot of things going on in the world.
01:25:19
So this isn't, this is nobody's priority right now. But for profit jails is the most evil concept.
01:25:26
And they have to be they have to be gotten rid of. Like that idea is is what's going to drive us into a dystopian future.
01:25:35
The idea that they would make money of keeping people in jail, which is already hellish for most people.
01:25:41
And already there are so many people in jail that like this guy. How many stories of this of black men?
01:25:48
And I was. Yeah. And you're completely right about fucking just the basic conflict of interest that you make money.
01:25:55
The more people are in jail, the more people are. It's so wrong. You can't get past that. There's no argument past that.
01:26:01
I actually won a fight with my uncle at dinner one time because we started talking about it.
01:26:06
He's like, no, I think. And then I was just like this and this. You simply can't. It's already happened in a lot of cases, you know, where obviously where people are like,
01:26:16
it's either people are on the take or they know that you know they get certain cases through where
01:26:21
it's like don't even listen they don't have right representation or whatever and boom boom boom
01:26:25
totally and it's just a nightmare if you ever get a chance to vote against for just yeah just
01:26:30
educate yourself on that yeah uh because god please god no it's a nightmare it doesn't make
01:26:37
any sense oh this whole world yeah some fucking mess anyway um yeah so he got all that money but
01:26:45
we still don't know who killed Peggy Hattrick. It's a cold case? Mm-hmm. And they said they're looking into it,
01:26:50
but I haven't been able to find any updated articles, any fucking information. I think when you and I talked about this,
01:26:57
we also talked about comparing it to the movie The River's Edge, which is a movie from the late 80s, I believe.
01:27:03
Yeah, I think so. And it's one of the most disturbing. When I saw it, I was like a teenager,
01:27:07
and it was so disturbing. But that was that kind of era where it was like, teens today are becoming very disaffected and no one cares and there's an apathy and it's uh not
01:27:21
that movie is trying to say that specifically but it was almost like this that was a cultural thing
01:27:25
in that uh tipper gore era of like your music is bad and your rap music and all this kind of
01:27:31
people are actually satanists these teenagers yeah the satanic panic whole thing and so instead of
01:27:38
these days where we're slowly learning that it's like a trauma response, whereas like,
01:27:44
it's something like that happens to you as a child. Uh, you would never know how to deal with
01:27:49
it and you could completely be in shock, literal physical shock for days on top of the fact that
01:27:55
boys are taught, especially if he was being raised only by his father, you're not allowed
01:28:00
to have feelings. He couldn't go to school and start crying. He couldn't, you know what I mean?
01:28:05
like he's supposed to either man up, you know, like the, his choices were so limited in dealing
01:28:11
with that problem. And from what I could see when he's talking about why he didn't call the police
01:28:15
and what he thought it was a mannequin is that throughout the morning, he, he is slowly starting
01:28:22
to realize what it, what, what it was. It's like, he needs to get there. So maybe he would have
01:28:27
called the police later in the day once he, it kind of dawned on him. Cause he was like
01:28:31
contemplating. He's like, I got on the bus and I was like, is someone playing a trick on me
01:28:35
that looked like a man? Is someone trying to prank me? Like he didn't understand what it was.
01:28:40
And I think that that's, I think your, yeah, your brain won't say there's a dead body. It says
01:28:45
there's a mannequin, which is why we're always like, it's not a mannequin. It's because we can't
01:28:48
fucking even deal with the fact that something might be a dead body. Your brain is our immediate
01:28:52
like mannequin. Yes. Not real. To explain this away so that that, so that this panic doesn't
01:28:57
rise in me and make all of my systems go berserk. Right. For sure. And also then once some, some,
01:29:04
that piece of information does go it like, like if he did see her genitals, that would have,
01:29:09
that would have traumatized him so terribly. It doesn't matter what fucking some kid draws in a
01:29:15
notebook. The real thing is totally different. And if you listen to heavy metal and you're trying to
01:29:20
be a tough guy, that's one thing. Or like if you're expressing your rage for whatever reason,
01:29:25
That's one thing. But seeing it in real life must have been horrifying for this kid.
01:29:31
And the saddest part is that this whole charade and this whole insane, you know, laser focus on this kid and this 30 fucking years of this case.
01:29:45
And there's no but there's nobody held responsible for Peggy's murder. And it's almost it's just not the focus anymore of the of the case.
01:29:53
Right So if that hadn been the case then maybe her murder would have been solved Well yeah that the problem with the ego coming into it Yeah
01:30:05
But yeah, I think that's just, I think like they're learning better and better and faster
01:30:11
and faster as these things come up where it's like, well, it used to be for years and hundreds
01:30:16
of years, it was all theory and it was whoever could kind of like, you know, boss the situation
01:30:21
the best they could and make everybody feel safe again. Yeah. Because that's a lot of it, too.
01:30:26
And then it's just like, but now it's like, here's a proof that didn't happen. Here's the proof that, you know, it's not that way.
01:30:32
And everyone has to adapt. And like, you know, it's the same thing of cops not cooperating across county lines.
01:30:39
Where it's like, okay, so you'd prefer to go unsolved than to have help. Well, it's like, and everyone did that, including the prosecutors.
01:30:47
And one of the female prosecutors said that she was embarrassed. that she hadn't didn't have more info or something like that. It's just, yeah, you can't,
01:30:57
you can't do that. And I think this is one of those cases of like that they use as an example
01:31:02
of why you can't, you can't make the evidence fit your suspect. It has to be the other way around.
01:31:10
Totally. Yeah, exactly. Right. Which sorry, because I know a lot of people like went the
01:31:15
other direction after a while, but that's the Stephen Avery thing. There's no fucking evidence.
01:31:20
that any of the stuff that Brendan Dassey was like led to say, they couldn't find a drop of fucking blood in that, in his house,
01:31:30
where the one witness who got him convicted said it happened. It didn't happen that way.
01:31:37
Now it could have happened a different way, or something else could have happened that nobody's been talked about.
01:31:43
But that one thing didn't happen that convicted him. That's what's fucked up. Totally. It's all fucked.
01:31:54
Okay, we're back. Are there any updates? There are. So Timothy Masters wrote a book detailing his experience being tried,
01:32:01
jailed, and exonerated for Peggy's murder titled Drawn to Injustice, the Wrongful Conviction of Timothy Masters. Peggy's brother, Tom Hetrick, has remained vocal about his
01:32:12
sister's case, making public appeals that he hopes will reignite interest. And the Colorado's
01:32:17
district attorney's office declared the case closed and said that it would require a full
01:32:21
confession from the perpetrator to change that. Wow. Well, now it's time for us to get into good
01:32:28
things of the week. Are there any? I think so. Okay, good. Is this our 99th episode? Is it? 98.
01:32:38
Oh, thank God. So we have two weeks to find a fucking person to have on the show or just think
01:32:43
of a theme. Yeah, let's not add that onto the show. I was gonna say, we're like, No, we have
01:32:50
to do something now. I don't know. I thought of that. What if we just don't do 100 episode? And
01:32:55
we just go right to one straight to one on one. Yeah, it's like the 13th floor. Yeah. 13th floor
01:32:59
wayside wayside school episode. Whatever you want. I don't give a shit. I mean, I've already bought your present. But that's fine. Did you remind me something? No.
01:33:13
You're excited. I got the joy on your face. You have to get me something. Yes. Now we have to get each other something.
01:33:20
Yeah. Shit. I guess I'm part of that. I didn't even think about it. God, I should give me a Lando Lake straight back.
01:33:27
I'm saving. Nope. Do like, fuck. It's already been on social media. It is a gift that's been given.
01:33:32
I guess you get you also, you have to one up Lando Lakes because Lando Lakes was a rando.
01:33:37
I love you. And I love this reference gift. What if I get you another specific Land O'Lakes tray?
01:33:44
You can't second tray me! You can't have one tray if you have two. I'm going to find that lady
01:33:50
from the Florida City and get that lady bucks some jewelry box back. I'm going to buy it
01:33:58
for double the price. I love it. Which is like nothing. Oh, that's a good one. Damn it.
01:34:04
$30. What am I going to do? Yeah, we got it. This is fun. And this is, we now have two weeks to give a hundredth episode gift.
01:34:13
Okay. And it has to be, it would have to please a Martha Stewart. Okay. And it would have to please somebody else that would be on the other, I guess a Snoop Dogg.
01:34:23
Okay. That's the other end of that. Sure. Everyone has to, okay. And please all that comes, it would have to please.
01:34:31
Oh, got it. It would have to. Do we have to use every word these days? I don't know.
01:34:36
Can we leave some out? Jesus, there's just too many. Can't I drop four words and change the meaning of the sentence I'm saying and have you follow along?
01:34:43
What do you what made you happy this week? Do you know? I forgot it. Was it your hangover?
01:34:49
Not having a hangover. Well, I guess that didn't make me happy. It made me cry, but I really liked it.
01:34:56
The thing I liked this week. You liked to cry? No. Can I tell you what I liked this week?
01:35:00
That's what I want to hear. OK. Yeah. This week. OK. My therapist told me about a podcast that I need to listen to.
01:35:08
And now I'm fucking obsessed with it. Oh, yes, that's right. Oh, my God. That's right.
01:35:11
And it made me sit in my car and ball and listen to the end of one of the episodes.
01:35:17
It's called Where Should We Begin? And it's this therapist named Esther Perel. And it's an anonymous couples therapy session that she records.
01:35:29
And kind of she talks you through it, too. And it's so beautiful and so well done.
01:35:36
And even if it's like a couple that you don't relate to, it's these themes that make you
01:35:40
kind of understand things more. And I like did one like Vince and I went to therapy this week.
01:35:44
I was like, I heard this and I want to do this. Like, can we try this? This is what I want.
01:35:49
Like, and it really, it was really beautiful. And so there's an episode that I fucking, the one I cried from is called, it's called
01:35:58
Trauma Doesn't Like to be Touched. and it's just such a beautiful episode. I think everyone should listen to it.
01:36:04
You sent that one to me, right? Yeah, you have to. I'm going to listen to it, but
01:36:07
I keep going. Do I feel like bawling right now? No, I don't. I don't actually. I'm going to save it.
01:36:13
Yeah. It's hard to be like, you're going to cry your eyes out and be really sad and moved.
01:36:17
Yeah. Sometimes I like that, but it has to like sneak. You know what's good? That's good for on a
01:36:23
plane. I love to just do a weird cry next to somebody on a plane because something about that
01:36:29
happens to me a lot when I travel something about taking off and landing. I just start crying. Like
01:36:34
I'll start thinking about like either I'm landing back into my life and it's this, this, and this,
01:36:39
or when I'm taking off, I'm like, whatever. It's very transitional maybe. And it gets me emotional.
01:36:45
And then I'll just sit there like slowly wiping tears while the person next to me is like,
01:36:50
do you want pretzels? The lady's offering pretzels. All right. What's yours? Did I
01:36:58
already tell you about going to Hamilton? Did I talk about it on the show? You went to Hamilton? Bitch, I went to Hamilton. When?
01:37:04
My friend, this was like two weeks ago, probably. You didn't tell me. Oh, that's right. Because, okay.
01:37:13
My friend, Stephanie, who we've talked about a lot on this podcast, but she emailed or texted me and was like, would, if I got Hamilton tickets, would you want to go?
01:37:24
And I was like, I absolutely would love to. I just would never do it on my own. So we went Pantages.
01:37:30
Oh my God. Uh, we were, I realized this is unfortunate. I realized as I was sitting there, I needed one stronger glasses prescription because I
01:37:39
can't see in the glasses that I have anymore far enough away, which was a bummer.
01:37:44
Cause I was like squinting like a lunatic the whole time but it was so fucking good Now how dumb am I to be saying that out loud nine years after the fact But when things like that come out I always the one
01:37:57
that's like, I bet it's not. I bet I know better. I bet I have superior taste, whatever, which is a
01:38:03
lame habit that I'm, it's just leftover Kurt Cobain issues that I have from the nineties that I have
01:38:08
to let go of. But it really reminded me how much I love to be a fan. I love to be a fan. It makes
01:38:15
me feel so good. And when you watch something that is better than the hype and there's no,
01:38:21
there's nothing that's more hyped than Hamilton and it absolutely doesn't just live up to it.
01:38:26
It goes beyond it. And there was a moment. This is the oldest thing I could be saying, but
01:38:33
there's a moment. And one of the lines in the musical is immigrants get things done.
01:38:38
And there's so many people in the theater that have already seen it at least once
01:38:42
just for that part, they explode with cheers and then immediately stop because they know
01:38:46
they don't want to block everybody's enjoyment of the rest of the song. Oh my God, that's awesome.
01:38:51
And it made me burst into tears. It was like, immigrants, get things done. It's like, and then it just stops.
01:38:57
And it was like, and I went, yeah, I am too. I'm like, I'm a whole generation away.
01:39:02
I'm immigrants. That's me. It was the fucking coolest, best thing, best lyrics, coolest music, best story, everything.
01:39:11
I'm going. Can I get to, is it hard to get tickets? It's impossible to get tickets.
01:39:15
I'm not going, but I would love it. It just is so worth it. And, and, and, you know, and
01:39:21
there are people who are like, I think there are people who are trying to insinuate,
01:39:24
oh, if it's in LA, it's not going to be as good of a cast or this or that. Well, those people are
01:39:29
high as kites because the people that I saw at the Pantages, I don't know. I'm sure Lin-Manuel
01:39:35
Miranda was amazing in it I wouldn have replaced any of those people with anybody else They were incredible And when people can sing in a theater that big I just it is so much talent I love it so much They fill up the whole
01:39:50
room. What an incredible skill. Yeah. That I'll never have. I know. Oh, wait, we do that. Wait,
01:39:56
what? We do that. We just don't sing. That's right. That's the difference. It's a big fucking difference. I'll tell you. You know what? You're right. Um, so, you know,
01:40:05
Just like groundbreaking revelation. Hamilton is good. Karen with the fucking update.
01:40:16
Okay, we're back. Okay, so the title of this episode was Grass Bit, of course. But if we had to rename it, we could call it, here's some pitches for a new name, like the big sipper himself, which is something I accused Stephen of being while he was doing his coffee bit.
01:40:33
That's clever. How about Surprise, I'm a Psychopath. or austin france how about au revoir motherfuckers
01:40:41
and the remotest island which is when you were living you're a bad packer you can buy anything
01:40:51
anywhere yeah you're on the remotest island all right well i think we did it that's so many choices
01:40:57
okay that was this week's episode of rewind let's go back to the pod loft and let dotty
01:41:02
say goodbye from 2017. Thanks for listening. You guys are great. Thank you. Stay sexy.
01:41:12
And don't get murdered. Bye. Dottie? Want a cookie? Want a cookie? Dottie? Wait a second.
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01:42:54
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Goodbye.