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hey Prime members you can listen to
00:00:02
morbid early and add free on Amazon
00:00:04
music download the app today what if you
00:00:07
were trafficked into the inner circle of
00:00:08
a cult and signed a billion year
00:00:10
contract at 13. what would you do this
00:00:14
is actually happening is a weekly
00:00:15
podcast from laundry that features
00:00:17
extraordinary true stories of
00:00:19
life-changing events told by the people
00:00:21
who lived them follow this is actually
00:00:23
happening on Amazon music or wherever
00:00:25
you get your podcasts
00:00:27
hey weirdos it's me it's Elena what's
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going on how was your day I hope it's
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awesome that's all I wanted to say no
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I'm just kidding this is a message
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because I think a couple of episodes ago
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we talked about how we are going back to
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the OG way of doing things we're doing
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two episodes a week two big old honking
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delicious juicy episodes with one
00:00:49
listener tale a month just as a little
00:00:50
Cherry a little glitter on top of a
00:00:52
crazy month and we're going to keep
00:00:55
doing that but I think we were also
00:00:56
debating what days would be best for
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this new two episode a week Cadence
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because we figured you know from
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Wednesday to Monday is a long wait for
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us and for you too much we'd all be sad
00:01:08
we don't want that so we finally came up
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with a good Cadence we're gonna drop
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episodes on Monday and Thursday from
00:01:15
here on out so Mondays Thursdays that's
00:01:18
when they'll come out on one degree plus
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then a week later you will get them
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Monday and Thursday for everybody else
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so
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that's what we're gonna do you deserve
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consistency we want to give it to you I
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know we didn't do that in the first like
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three years we were like willy nilly
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whenever you get episodes here it is but
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you know we're in that consistency train
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and we want to stay on that and yeah I
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think this is going to work for
00:01:40
everybody it just feels better we don't
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want that big chunk of time between
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episodes you don't either
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um so yeah that's what we're gonna do
00:01:47
Mondays Thursdays new episodes we're
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excited about it it lets us really put
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more time and effort into these episodes
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which is what they deserve and what you
00:01:56
deserve and we [ __ ] love you and I
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can't wait to see you every Monday and
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Thursday I know I won't see you I
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realize that I won't even hear you but
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it feels like I will and you will hear
00:02:07
me so we're all in this together we're
00:02:09
best friends thanks guys Mondays
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Thursdays
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hey weirdos I'm Elena I'm Ash and this
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is morbid
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[Music]
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[Music]
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foreign
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[Music]
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last night live in Somerville and
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Somerville kids and we got to meet some
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of our [ __ ] podcast babies it was
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beautiful it was elegant you're you
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probably saw a picture it looks like the
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Last Supper but awesome
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the Last Supper but better but awesome
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because there's no Brutus oh oh the
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Ash's microphone is literally attempting
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to assault her
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it's falling off of the table Mikey to
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the rescue please he's gonna fix it all
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right we're back in better than ever and
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owner's had a correction it's also it's
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Judas I know it's Judas Brutus says the
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Caesar one I you know Judas Brutus
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they're all betraying people yeah I like
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Caesar dressing am I right yeah that's
00:03:39
my hot take a small take today love I
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also love Caesar dressing as long as
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it's not too fishy yeah that's [ __ ]
00:03:47
foul sometimes we should get one that's
00:03:49
like oh that's a lot of anchovy oh my
00:03:51
gosh I was gonna say do you know why I
00:03:53
wanted to tell you something it's really
00:03:54
hard to tell you something that you
00:03:56
don't already know that you don't
00:03:57
already know no it's a lot of souls
00:03:59
coming out today I am we are both on
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like three hours of sleep yeah because
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we we got to party hardy with our
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[ __ ] friends yeah it was wild like I
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got to be an adult and go out and by
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party hardy I mean Elena ordered a
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Shirley Temple just like a straight up
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Shirley Temple I know yeah nothing added
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to it and it was great I'm happy about
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that you know what Madison taught me
00:04:21
last night Madison from um obituary
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which you should go see and buy tickets
00:04:24
to plug plug they are amazing she taught
00:04:27
me to mix and I think it's a Harry Style
00:04:29
song to mix
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um Diet Coke and red wine and um
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Cabernet specifically
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sounds like absolutely disgusting in the
00:04:38
towel and I was like I trust you I took
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a sip
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life-changing it's it sounds [ __ ]
00:04:45
crazy it's so good I just hate diet
00:04:47
anything it doesn't but it doesn't end
00:04:50
up tasting diet because the I mean I
00:04:52
like Diet Coke I was gonna say I
00:04:54
literally hate the taste of Diet Coke
00:04:55
well you could do it with regular Coke
00:04:57
yeah it almost has like a sangria Vibe
00:04:59
oh that's interesting yeah you should
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you should try it you should try it try
00:05:05
stop copying me oh oh yeah I got yelled
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at I I accidentally because I don't look
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at any like I usually don't see any
00:05:13
comments because I'm just like uh I
00:05:15
don't go on the internet anymore but if
00:05:17
you go on the internet to post what we
00:05:19
want to post exactly how you get that
00:05:21
bread I'm out and I happen to be on
00:05:24
Instagram and I got one of those like
00:05:25
Banner notifications and it was somebody
00:05:28
on a morbid post being like hey has
00:05:30
anyone else noticed how [ __ ] annoying
00:05:32
Elena is that she just repeats it all
00:05:34
the funny things that that Ash says in a
00:05:36
like different voice and I was like they
00:05:38
said has anyone else known yeah has
00:05:40
anyone else noticed how annoying Elaine
00:05:42
is and I was like why are you here I was
00:05:44
like what did that get you sometimes I
00:05:46
wonder if people think that's kind of
00:05:48
like endear me to them and I mean like
00:05:50
oh my God like I know she sucks you're
00:05:52
so nice for saying that it's like no no
00:05:54
Ash [ __ ] hates you yeah
00:05:58
[ __ ] pots like I got like whatever
00:06:01
it's like pit us against each other I'm
00:06:03
like what kind of work do you think Ash
00:06:05
is gonna like you for that like ash is
00:06:07
like we ride a dawn for each other like
00:06:11
if you're not like we could like punch
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each other in the face one day like we
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never have we never but we could and
00:06:16
then Elena could call me and be like hey
00:06:18
I need you and I'd be like what time
00:06:19
yeah let's go like I'm here actually so
00:06:21
who's Kyle we taking who's how are we
00:06:23
taking I feel like I can't say that
00:06:24
because I've never seen that movie
00:06:25
that's a great movie but is that the
00:06:27
town but yeah yeah it is the town hey
00:06:29
look at me yeah so I just you know I
00:06:31
just was like wow okay you need to um
00:06:34
you need to sign out of The Morbid
00:06:36
account I do need to because then you
00:06:37
don't get those Banner notifications
00:06:39
because that was the problem I don't go
00:06:40
looking because whenever I do I
00:06:43
accidentally that's the only thing
00:06:44
you'll see is now you'll miss all the
00:06:46
nice things that people say yeah which
00:06:48
is sad and you only will see that one
00:06:51
nasty one because they always make sure
00:06:52
to be like you know has anyone noticed
00:06:55
that Elena is annoying and I'm like okay
00:06:59
um so sign out of that but then you
00:07:01
might need to also because I need to do
00:07:03
this you might need to unfollow morbid
00:07:06
which is so sad I'm so sad but I follow
00:07:08
morbid because like it's my podcast
00:07:11
say it yes my podcast oh my God you're
00:07:14
so annoying you're so annoying but so
00:07:16
I'll like scroll by and it gives you
00:07:18
like that like little like two or three
00:07:20
comments I always see the meanest thing
00:07:22
why can't Ash speak yeah and I'm like
00:07:25
because brain damage okay I don't know
00:07:28
those are always the ones that show and
00:07:30
I'm like Wow Instagram like that's fake
00:07:32
as [ __ ] why do you just show me the mean
00:07:34
one I saw one recently that was like Wow
00:07:36
has a podcast but she can't [ __ ] talk
00:07:38
all right well there's two of us for
00:07:40
when I can't talk and I just gotta ask
00:07:42
again I know we've all asked this before
00:07:45
what's wrong with you like who does that
00:07:48
like who just goes like what do you get
00:07:50
out of that like that girl who was like
00:07:52
has anyone noticed that Elena's annoying
00:07:54
I'm like even if you gathered an army of
00:07:57
people that were like we are the Riders
00:08:00
of Elena being annoying and you started
00:08:03
a group and you had meetings and like
00:08:05
you had like a special handshake that
00:08:08
you did like do you feel good like what
00:08:10
what else what are you getting out of it
00:08:12
also why are you doing a census on my
00:08:14
post that's the thing and it's like on
00:08:15
my post that's annoying in the mail I
00:08:17
don't need it on my post but and also
00:08:19
that that person followed me and I was
00:08:21
like all right well hate following is a
00:08:24
thing that people love to do well it's a
00:08:26
it's a hate following it's like you love
00:08:30
me I was literally like sounds like
00:08:32
someone protests too much though I don't
00:08:35
think you find me annoying I think you
00:08:37
like me I know it's like it's one of
00:08:39
those things where you're like oh my God
00:08:40
you shouldn't pay it any mind like of
00:08:41
course but sometimes you just gotta
00:08:43
vented out which that's the thing it's
00:08:44
like normally like we've really gotten
00:08:46
to a point years through this that we
00:08:48
don't pay it any Minds like the
00:08:50
constructive stuff sure but like totally
00:08:52
just people being dicks like that like
00:08:54
that's not constructive at all like you
00:08:56
can [ __ ] yourself that's just but like
00:08:57
like listen to it that kind of [ __ ] is
00:09:00
like you're just you're being an [ __ ]
00:09:02
for the sake of being an [ __ ] and I
00:09:04
don't know what you got out of it but I
00:09:06
sure hope it gave you some kind of jolly
00:09:08
because I hope it sounds like you need
00:09:10
it well also you're just like creating a
00:09:13
negative space for yourself and yeah
00:09:15
like I speak from experience if you put
00:09:18
things out into the world that are
00:09:19
negative even if you're not talking [ __ ]
00:09:20
like even if you're just talking
00:09:22
negatively comes back to you it's true
00:09:24
and then you're just attracting negative
00:09:26
negative karma is the thing man
00:09:28
attractive that's why we're and and you
00:09:32
know it took like a while to get here
00:09:33
but that's why we're in a place
00:09:36
where we're just like you know what
00:09:37
whatever and we're also in a place of
00:09:40
just like we're gonna keep trying to
00:09:42
like build people up that deserve to be
00:09:45
built up like that's why we shout out
00:09:46
different creators for you guys to go
00:09:48
check out and you're also because that's
00:09:50
what queen of that I don't even do that
00:09:52
as much as you like you're so
00:09:54
philanthropic no it's just fun and it's
00:09:56
really fun to see when like like
00:09:58
especially on Tick Tock I've been seeing
00:10:00
it lately and it's like really making me
00:10:01
happy you guys like [ __ ] kill it yeah
00:10:03
because like morbid listeners will go
00:10:06
follow these people that we mentioned
00:10:08
right and then they'll be like oh I got
00:10:09
I came here from morbid and it's so fun
00:10:11
to see because then it's like they are
00:10:14
and they're always like oh I'm so
00:10:15
excited to have found this this is so
00:10:16
fun and it's like I love like blowing
00:10:19
those people up you know what that's
00:10:20
called Community that's called Community
00:10:22
that's called by brothers in Christ hell
00:10:25
yeah that's what we are that's called my
00:10:27
brothers and Buddhism you guys are the
00:10:28
real ones so don't think that we take
00:10:30
like the the is an Elena annoying ones
00:10:33
as like our listeners that's that's
00:10:39
yeah exactly like you guys are the real
00:10:41
ones we know who you are we know that we
00:10:44
know who this community is we met a lot
00:10:46
of you last night it was so cool it was
00:10:48
wonderful that you guys are magical that
00:10:50
will never not be cool yeah so we know
00:10:52
who you are so don't worry they don't
00:10:54
represent you but anyways I just wanted
00:10:57
to put it out there that like you know
00:10:59
if you're doing that kind of [ __ ] on the
00:11:00
internet like you might you you should
00:11:02
probably reevaluate where you sit in
00:11:04
life because that's a really pathetic
00:11:06
thing to do one more thing what I just
00:11:09
have to tell you if you're doing that
00:11:11
I'm literally just picturing you sitting
00:11:13
in a crusty basement picking your toe
00:11:15
cheese that's actually very true that's
00:11:17
exactly because I'm like you're not
00:11:19
happy and I know you yeah fungal
00:11:21
infection and I'm sorry about it but
00:11:23
because
00:11:24
all the times in your life that you have
00:11:27
talked [ __ ] like that or been somebody
00:11:28
like that when like you're younger all
00:11:31
that it was always in the worst [ __ ]
00:11:33
times of yourself it was never when you
00:11:35
were happy it was never when you were a
00:11:37
fulfilled person and that's why I'm just
00:11:40
like wow that's sad no I can honestly
00:11:42
that's a bummer for you I have never
00:11:43
written a nasty comment yeah somebody
00:11:45
else's Instagram I'm so strange what the
00:11:48
[ __ ] is wrong with you have I sub
00:11:49
tweeted many many many people in my day
00:11:52
abso [ __ ] lutely but I'm not going on
00:11:55
podcasts being like Oh one time
00:11:59
in our breakup stage and he texted me
00:12:02
and he was like did you just [ __ ] sub
00:12:04
tweet me and I was like I don't know
00:12:05
what the [ __ ] you're talking about like
00:12:06
I don't even know what a sub tweet is
00:12:07
true are you okay he's like we dated for
00:12:10
a year and a half I know you're the sub
00:12:12
tweet Queen of the century like I don't
00:12:14
know him look who are you and then I'm
00:12:16
like wait I love you married oh love I
00:12:19
know what a what a wild drive so lots of
00:12:22
Wild Ride
00:12:25
[Music]
00:12:32
a few days before Christmas Janelle
00:12:34
Matthews disappeared from her home
00:12:36
there were no signs of a struggle no
00:12:38
eyewitnesses no DNA recovered but what
00:12:42
if the answer had always been there
00:12:44
what if a true crime fanatic had been
00:12:46
talking about the case was more than
00:12:48
just an obsessive fan
00:12:50
the groundbreaking True Crime podcast
00:12:52
suspect is back with a new story that
00:12:55
attempts to separate fact from fiction
00:12:57
and one man's True Crime Obsession from
00:12:59
a motive for murder he says don't work
00:13:02
with me officer Edgerton I've buried
00:13:04
more people than you'll know he's
00:13:06
providing information that hadn't even
00:13:08
been released to the news yet he's just
00:13:11
a good liar that he can convince the
00:13:13
juror that he wasn't involved follow
00:13:15
suspect wherever you get your podcasts
00:13:18
hey Prime members you can binge the
00:13:20
entire series ad free on Amazon music
00:13:22
download the Amazon music app today
00:13:31
all right so we're in part two of
00:13:33
another case we're in part two of The
00:13:35
Burger Chef murders this is a really sad
00:13:37
one yeah it is um it's a bummer it's
00:13:41
technically still unsolved which is
00:13:43
always a hard pill to swallow I love it
00:13:46
though when you say technically because
00:13:48
then I get a little flutter yeah because
00:13:50
it's like we got a pretty viable suspect
00:13:53
I never I don't think I ever knew that
00:13:55
yeah that's a pretty viable one sorry
00:13:57
did they come about recently or have
00:13:59
they been no it's been out there and
00:14:01
we'll talk about them but it's one of
00:14:03
those things where you just can't pin it
00:14:06
it's like like probably because they um
00:14:09
washed down the crimes yeah that might
00:14:11
have something there was that whole
00:14:13
whole nonsense like didn't investigate
00:14:16
for like a minute yeah for for a solid
00:14:19
minute but brief period of time but bye
00:14:22
so at the end of the of part one I was
00:14:25
talking about how you know they really
00:14:26
had exhausted the few leads that they
00:14:28
got and the state police had actually
00:14:31
publicly stated in this case we've got
00:14:33
to hope that the killer Killers may have
00:14:35
told someone who has a conscience who
00:14:38
will come forward so they're not even
00:14:40
hoping now that the killer has a
00:14:43
conscience they're hoping that the
00:14:44
person that the killer tells this to
00:14:46
they have a conscience and they come
00:14:48
forward also some killers are like
00:14:51
pretty good at Secrets yeah so that's
00:14:54
you should probably that tends to be
00:14:56
like one of their their main traits I
00:14:58
feel like they should explore other
00:14:59
avenues yeah investigative work you
00:15:01
never want to hear investigators go well
00:15:03
the thing we're banking on is that this
00:15:06
guy just straight up confesses to
00:15:08
someone you might be waiting a while and
00:15:10
not only that confesses to someone that
00:15:12
has a conscience it's like that's a lot
00:15:15
I don't want to rest all of my hopes and
00:15:17
dreams on that I'd rather rest it on
00:15:18
like you investigating the case same you
00:15:21
know but either way that sucks so I had
00:15:26
mentioned it before but in 1978 Speedway
00:15:30
police were dealing with a lot more [ __ ]
00:15:32
than they normally did
00:15:34
this super small Midwestern town was
00:15:37
really being pushed like to the limit of
00:15:39
its resources we mentioned in part one
00:15:41
that there was these random horrific
00:15:43
bombings yeah that were seeming and were
00:15:46
ended up being connected to uh the
00:15:48
murder of a woman and that woman was 69
00:15:51
year old housewife Julius skifers she
00:15:54
was shot to death under very mysterious
00:15:56
circumstances
00:15:58
the bombings that followed were just
00:16:00
more stress and mystery added on to this
00:16:02
whole thing they happened in sept on
00:16:05
September 1st three bombings happened in
00:16:07
Speedway that Saturday there were two
00:16:09
more and then another one the next day
00:16:12
and the last one happened the following
00:16:14
day at Speedway High School oh my God so
00:16:16
it was just constant a bombing is like
00:16:18
one of my biggest yeah and they just
00:16:20
don't know they were being put in like
00:16:22
uh trash cans and stuff and at the high
00:16:24
school I think they were found in like a
00:16:25
gym bag like somebody picked up a gym
00:16:27
bag and it exploded oh my God and like
00:16:30
people were wounded by shrapnel like it
00:16:32
was tough and you said they went
00:16:34
unsolved too right the bombings they did
00:16:37
for a while so these crimes were taking
00:16:39
up all the resources in time that this
00:16:42
really small town PD had to offer
00:16:45
um they were not able to muster up a
00:16:46
whole lot more for anything else and as
00:16:49
November turned to December state and
00:16:51
local police were really just grasping
00:16:53
at anything that could take the Burger
00:16:55
Chef case forward they just had nothing
00:16:58
often but they were not entirely without
00:17:01
leads because Speedway police were
00:17:03
continuing to receive leads from the
00:17:05
public from telephone calls letters and
00:17:09
in the end they actually produced at
00:17:10
least 36 leads that they could deem at
00:17:13
least slightly credible which isn't a
00:17:16
whole lot but really the best leads that
00:17:19
they had were the tip from that young
00:17:21
couple who had been approached by those
00:17:23
two men in the parking lot of the Burger
00:17:24
Chef because they were talking and this
00:17:27
was up because they went neck and uh
00:17:29
because and this was like an hour or so
00:17:31
before the robbery and kidnapping
00:17:32
occurred so this was a pretty good
00:17:33
witness statement to have the police
00:17:36
department didn't have a sketch artist
00:17:38
on Chef Rocco on Chef on staff I didn't
00:17:41
even catch I'm tired I need more
00:17:43
caffeine uh but they they also didn't
00:17:45
have the funds or resources available to
00:17:47
get a professional one right so
00:17:50
detectives found and hired Robin England
00:17:52
who was an art student at Ball State
00:17:54
University Ball State also was the niece
00:17:58
of one of the investigators on the case
00:18:00
and they were willing to to create
00:18:02
sculpture busts from the descriptions
00:18:04
that were provided by the witnesses and
00:18:07
those Witnesses later said that the bus
00:18:08
were quote between 95 and 100 accurate
00:18:12
wow bus are always so interesting to me
00:18:14
these buses are a very interesting
00:18:17
looking bus oh I will say I saw that
00:18:20
little stuff that little glimmer in
00:18:21
Europe they're very interesting looking
00:18:24
um and a composite drawing was made from
00:18:26
the bus and it was circulated throughout
00:18:28
the press okay now and then again we
00:18:31
have
00:18:32
the witnesses saying that these are very
00:18:34
accurate so that means that the
00:18:36
composite images are pretty accurate 95
00:18:38
to 100 that's huge right and they were
00:18:41
at one point we're going to see that
00:18:42
they were able to find a couple of guys
00:18:44
that literally are like dead ringers for
00:18:46
these guys and somehow they weren't able
00:18:48
to place them in Speedway at the time of
00:18:50
the murders and it like shocked me are
00:18:52
they an assessment no so photographs of
00:18:55
these bus were circulated around the
00:18:57
media and a statement from State Police
00:18:59
Sergeant Chuck Hibbert was released
00:19:02
saying we are not calling these two men
00:19:03
suspects we just want to talk to them
00:19:12
yeah it's off the Record it's fine
00:19:15
um so but beside these witness
00:19:17
statements and witness accounts this was
00:19:19
really the biggest evidence they had was
00:19:21
these composite images so detectives
00:19:24
hope that publishing them was maybe
00:19:26
gonna jog
00:19:27
someone's memory around that time
00:19:30
someone from the public that was around
00:19:32
the Burger Chef had maybe caught glimpse
00:19:35
of these guys and seeing the composite
00:19:36
image was going to make them go oh [ __ ]
00:19:38
yeah I did see them and they were hoping
00:19:40
this person would come forward help with
00:19:41
an ID however the image is definitely
00:19:45
prompted people to call in about 600
00:19:47
calls to police wow none of them
00:19:50
produced a concrete lead not one now do
00:19:54
you think that was because the tip
00:19:55
sucked or do you think that was because
00:19:56
the police department sucked I don't
00:19:58
know that's the thing combination
00:20:00
honestly that is that's kind of the
00:20:02
theme of this case everyone sucks it's
00:20:04
like could it have been solved if they
00:20:08
just did their jobs better yes and it's
00:20:11
like yeah I think so I think I said it
00:20:13
last time or it might have been after we
00:20:15
finished recording if they hadn't
00:20:17
cleaned up that crime scene they could
00:20:19
have dusted for Prince and obviously
00:20:21
maybe couldn't have done a lot with them
00:20:22
back then but now yeah boom boom we'd
00:20:25
have them and it's like at this point we
00:20:29
have no idea what evidence was left at
00:20:31
that scene nothing there could have been
00:20:34
DNA at that scene there could have been
00:20:37
anything at that scene there could have
00:20:39
been hell there could have been a phone
00:20:41
they could have taken a Polaroid
00:20:42
photograph of themselves at that scene
00:20:44
and left it on the floor of the counter
00:20:45
and it was thrown away yeah we literally
00:20:48
don't know there could have been boot
00:20:50
prints a mural painted on the wall by
00:20:52
one of them we're going here like it
00:20:55
could have just I'm I'm just an artiste
00:20:57
you're like there could have been a
00:20:59
Razor scooter belonging to him with the
00:21:01
murderers that had DNA on it and they
00:21:04
parked it but you know what there could
00:21:07
have been I'm saying we don't know
00:21:08
because they just cleaned it all up and
00:21:10
threw it away it could have hit one of
00:21:12
those detectives in the angle yeah he
00:21:14
didn't even [ __ ] know it exactly we
00:21:16
don't know that is the most frustrating
00:21:18
thing it's not that they like oh there
00:21:21
was blood and they cleaned it up it's
00:21:22
like we don't [ __ ] know we have no
00:21:25
idea what evidence was at that scene
00:21:26
that could have absolutely nailed these
00:21:28
[ __ ] and it makes me crazy well if
00:21:31
one of them had a beard too you're like
00:21:32
I know that [ __ ] was shedded I know your
00:21:34
[ __ ] was not taken care of it was shin
00:21:37
oh so as 1978 came to an end the murders
00:21:41
were kind of starting to fade out of the
00:21:43
papers that's [ __ ] people are starting
00:21:45
to move on nothing's happening in the
00:21:47
case from the brutal killing of four
00:21:49
years yes in town and when I say people
00:21:51
I mean everyone but these poor victims
00:21:53
families who are still sitting there
00:21:55
waiting for [ __ ] Justice and police
00:21:57
are just hitting wall after wall after
00:21:59
wall the reward money that the Burger
00:22:01
Chef Corporation put out there unclaimed
00:22:03
just sitting there and apparently even
00:22:06
the typically very chatty jailhouse
00:22:08
informants could not help push anything
00:22:10
forward and they were actually there's a
00:22:13
quote in the Indianapolis Star that said
00:22:15
the Marion County jail whose prisoners
00:22:17
are usually a gold mine of information
00:22:18
about crimes in Central Indiana had not
00:22:21
yielded a single good tip about the
00:22:23
murder wow like that's pretty wild now
00:22:26
with the public kind of fading away from
00:22:29
this case the headlines are fading away
00:22:31
investigators are now desperate to keep
00:22:35
it in the papers keep the public engaged
00:22:38
keep the pressure on these they yeah
00:22:40
they know they have to make up for what
00:22:43
they've done right like what they
00:22:44
haven't done for their negligence so the
00:22:47
in the the Indianapolis Star actually
00:22:49
set up this new system and with this
00:22:52
system readers could submit tips or
00:22:54
other information anonymously okay which
00:22:57
always helps I feel like it always gets
00:22:58
people to talk more
00:23:00
um and what they said was some of you
00:23:01
may not realize you hold valuable
00:23:03
information that just may add Aid police
00:23:06
in solving the crime and it said that it
00:23:08
said do not sign the letter but put a
00:23:10
five digit number at both the top and
00:23:12
the bottom page then make a jagged tear
00:23:15
across the bottom of the sheet just
00:23:17
above the number
00:23:19
okay sounds like that seems like a lot
00:23:21
that's very intricate can I just write
00:23:23
in a lot of people are going to be
00:23:25
intimidated by that a lot of people are
00:23:27
gonna [ __ ] that process yeah I'm gonna
00:23:29
be honest if I I'd be like oh okay and
00:23:32
then I'd read like put a five digit
00:23:34
thing okay like you know it's start and
00:23:36
then it would be like also make this Jet
00:23:37
and I'd be like I'm out like that's the
00:23:39
third thing you asked me to do about you
00:23:41
know what that reminds me of and I don't
00:23:42
know if it will make sense to anyone
00:23:43
else it reminds me of the instructions
00:23:45
for a Scantron test oh that's absolutely
00:23:48
going to make sense to everyone
00:23:50
listening I feel like like that like
00:23:52
yeah you gotta have what I'm saying yeah
00:23:54
yeah like your teacher would be like
00:23:55
okay fill in this bubble with this
00:23:57
specific pencil do not fill in the
00:23:59
bubbles that are colored like this and
00:24:01
you were like I have so much anxiety
00:24:02
right now write your name up here write
00:24:04
your name on the bottom write your class
00:24:06
number here right your class number here
00:24:08
don't you dare write your class number
00:24:10
here write my name over here and you're
00:24:12
like can I just take the test like but
00:24:14
what's my name what's my name though I
00:24:16
don't understand so the stars are reward
00:24:19
desk immediately started receiving
00:24:21
letters off of this because people were
00:24:23
apparently not intimidated by it okay um
00:24:25
we're all like we would suck at this but
00:24:27
in 78 they were like we're fine with it
00:24:29
I mean um yeah you know they had to do a
00:24:31
lot of [ __ ]
00:24:34
[Music]
00:24:46
so some weren't like super detailed uh
00:24:51
like one came from Johnson County from a
00:24:53
man who said that he saw a suspicious
00:24:56
Man Who Bore a striking resemblance to
00:24:58
the clean-shaven man and this man was
00:25:01
standing alone on Stones Crossing Road
00:25:03
on November 18th that's it all right
00:25:07
just like saw this guy that looked like
00:25:10
that guy without a beard
00:25:12
standing on a street on that day over
00:25:16
there I guess I saw him I saw him on
00:25:19
that night and he was standing and he
00:25:22
did so I don't have a beard that man was
00:25:25
not sitting he was standing and I
00:25:27
imagine that these robbers
00:25:30
I imagine they were standing so I'm like
00:25:33
did he looks cage closed my friends it's
00:25:36
like you're just waiting for him thanks
00:25:38
for that I guess like we'll keep that in
00:25:40
mind that that road contained a man that
00:25:43
was standing contained so then there was
00:25:46
other ones that were a little more
00:25:48
detailed one came from a Greenwood gas
00:25:50
station attendant he wrote in saying
00:25:53
that he actually recognized those bus as
00:25:55
two men who'd short changed him in the
00:25:58
early morning hours of November 18th I
00:26:00
have something to say oh if a gas
00:26:03
station attendant tells you something
00:26:04
listen yeah they know like in a criminal
00:26:07
investigation I feel like they know yeah
00:26:10
just hit a criminal events or an urban
00:26:13
legend the movie
00:26:15
when that poor man was just trying to
00:26:16
scream someone's in the back seat oh
00:26:19
that man and she was being a dick she
00:26:21
was being such a [ __ ] that's one of
00:26:23
those situations where you're like you
00:26:25
had the day you deserved girls
00:26:27
I don't know what to tell yeah man is so
00:26:29
sweet
00:26:30
so sweet
00:26:31
I think he was just try to tell you
00:26:33
something and he's a gas station
00:26:34
attendant yeah he knows he knows they
00:26:37
have seen some [ __ ] they're harbingers
00:26:39
they tell you when evil is a foot and
00:26:41
you need to listen think about our
00:26:42
friend at the gas station he knows what
00:26:44
the [ __ ] hell yeah he always knows
00:26:45
what's and he has all the [ __ ] drama
00:26:47
hell yeah he does so listen to your
00:26:50
local gas station it's true but if
00:26:51
they're informing you about a crime and
00:26:53
this guy is saying that on November 18th
00:26:56
in the early morning hours he was
00:26:57
shortchanged by two men who looked like
00:27:00
those bus and of course you're gonna
00:27:01
remember that yes because and he said it
00:27:03
was strange because these men bought
00:27:05
twelve dollars worth of gas for their
00:27:07
black Chevrolet so he was able to
00:27:09
provide that and he said but they
00:27:10
attempted to pay with a five dollar bill
00:27:12
and two singles
00:27:14
what so they attempted to pay Seven
00:27:16
dollars for twelve dollars worth of gas
00:27:18
I think he thought like that they would
00:27:20
they probably thought that he would just
00:27:21
take the five thinking it was a ten yeah
00:27:23
they could leave before he noticed which
00:27:25
like wow you're an [ __ ] I the fact
00:27:28
that you just broke that down so easily
00:27:30
because like because at 10 and two
00:27:32
singles so it's like I think they just
00:27:34
did it to be dicks and like hoped he
00:27:36
wouldn't notice but I'm like no she's
00:27:38
smarter than you now he immediately
00:27:41
pointed out this error and he was like I
00:27:43
think you gave me the wrong Bill and
00:27:45
they were like oh okay so they went back
00:27:46
to their car they got the money but then
00:27:49
he said they both quote spewed
00:27:51
obscenities at him while driving off
00:27:54
what the [ __ ] and it's like okay stole
00:27:56
his gas to me that's a pretty credible
00:27:59
tip yeah because that's already a crime
00:28:01
and they seem like the kind of pieces of
00:28:03
[ __ ] that would do something awful right
00:28:05
so maybe track down like if you're that
00:28:06
big of a piece of [ __ ] you you're a
00:28:08
piece of [ __ ] through and through [ __ ]
00:28:10
so the tips from the uh Speedway police
00:28:13
hotline and the Indianapolis Stars
00:28:15
reward desk they prompted hundreds of
00:28:18
responses but really only a handful
00:28:21
actually produced viable leads that they
00:28:23
could even chase down and then when they
00:28:26
chase down those leads
00:28:28
nothing even the viable leads they chase
00:28:30
down nothing
00:28:32
so after two months of Investigation
00:28:34
there was still not even a clear motive
00:28:37
for this crime because the robbers had
00:28:39
seemingly gone into the Burger Chef to
00:28:42
rob the restaurant right but if that was
00:28:44
the case why the [ __ ] did they kidnap
00:28:47
and murder four teens there like why did
00:28:49
they do that and it's like we always
00:28:51
hear the robbery gone wrong explanation
00:28:53
for these kind of situations but
00:28:56
this was really wrong like this went
00:28:59
really wrong and not only really wrong
00:29:01
but they took them
00:29:03
far away well that's the thing I feel
00:29:06
like that's not that's not even a
00:29:08
typical robbery gone wrong they're just
00:29:09
kind of like presumably shoot them and
00:29:12
leave them there that's the thing that
00:29:13
would be in that's a robbery gone wrong
00:29:16
that they just start shooting right and
00:29:17
everybody is at the scene right very I
00:29:21
mean typically robbers aren't in the
00:29:22
habit of executing people in the middle
00:29:24
of the woods like pretty rare for that
00:29:27
to happen so the best explanation that
00:29:30
detectives could have come to was that
00:29:32
something had thrown them off their plan
00:29:34
that night that they went in there ready
00:29:36
to rob that place in some unexpected
00:29:39
thing happened that threw the whole
00:29:41
thing into just Shenanigans and the only
00:29:44
difference that night that they could
00:29:46
come to was the presence of Mark flemons
00:29:49
he had switched shifts with another
00:29:52
employee
00:29:53
investigators started to theorize that
00:29:55
flemen's knew or could at least identify
00:29:58
one one or more of the robbers oh who
00:30:01
were thrown off by his presence and
00:30:03
killed all of them in a panic I don't
00:30:05
agree with that
00:30:07
I I think they're they're looking at
00:30:09
that theory from the wrong angle in my
00:30:12
opinion I don't think it was that Mark
00:30:14
knew these people I think it was that
00:30:16
they went in there thinking there was
00:30:18
four specific people that were going to
00:30:19
be working which it also was a uh girl
00:30:22
who was supposed to be working in Mark's
00:30:24
Place I wonder if they went in there
00:30:26
saying okay there's three girls there's
00:30:29
one boy and the boy is like a 16 year
00:30:32
old we can take them and then when they
00:30:34
went in there and they saw now there's
00:30:36
two
00:30:37
strong like you know there's two like
00:30:40
teenage boys that threw everything off I
00:30:43
don't think it had to do with Mark
00:30:44
knowing who these criminals were because
00:30:46
why would the only people that I would
00:30:48
think you would know are like his fellow
00:30:49
high school that's the thing I'm like I
00:30:51
don't know that I think this is the work
00:30:52
of two high school students no exactly
00:30:55
but even with all of that it's still
00:30:58
like
00:30:59
that even if they came in there and they
00:31:02
saw what they were not expecting to see
00:31:05
which is apparently an extra boy instead
00:31:08
of an extra girl because that's just my
00:31:10
random speculation
00:31:12
I can see that like throwing everybody
00:31:14
off but like to that extent yeah not to
00:31:18
that's exactly it not to that extent
00:31:19
it's just that there's a lot of
00:31:22
unanswered questions in that I feel like
00:31:25
that's a theme of this whole yeah every
00:31:27
time you think you're like oh well maybe
00:31:29
this happened you're like no that
00:31:30
doesn't make sense but maybe this is one
00:31:32
of those things too that it's like
00:31:34
it doesn't make sense none of it's
00:31:36
senseless so like
00:31:39
maybe that's what it is that was very
00:31:41
profound thank you I thought so too
00:31:45
so by March of 1979 really the problem
00:31:48
you know the territorial thing between
00:31:50
between the Departments The Fragile egos
00:31:54
it was again causing problems for the
00:31:58
Burger Chef murder investigation and
00:32:00
there was a lot of confusion among the
00:32:02
press that was happening on March 7th
00:32:04
the Indianapolis news reported quote
00:32:07
Speedway police chief Robert Copeland
00:32:09
and all his officers were ordered by his
00:32:12
police Commissioners and State Police
00:32:14
not to talk about any aspect of the
00:32:17
November slings
00:32:18
so they're essentially saying there was
00:32:20
a gag order put on them right but then
00:32:23
when reporters asked more about this
00:32:27
um and they were told by the State
00:32:28
Police Superintendent John settle or
00:32:31
Shuttle excuse me this is the first I've
00:32:33
heard of it we don't dictate to anyone
00:32:35
we try to cooperate in a case like this
00:32:37
those are two very conflicting things
00:32:40
yeah that's that's opposite day baby and
00:32:42
then in the same vein a spokesperson for
00:32:45
the governor's office said quote gag
00:32:47
orders are the authority of the judicial
00:32:49
system right which implies that unless a
00:32:52
judge has issued that check that gag
00:32:53
order you're not under a gag order
00:32:56
so it's so wild without and there was no
00:33:00
explanation for this so it seemed like
00:33:02
Copeland's you know gag order quote
00:33:04
unquote really was nothing more than
00:33:07
just an attempt to avoid questions like
00:33:10
and they didn't and not take on more
00:33:12
scrutiny or deal with more scrutiny from
00:33:14
the Press basically not wanting to
00:33:17
confront the fact that they had made
00:33:18
zero progress in this case and that it
00:33:21
was botched from the start and he was
00:33:23
like if I just say there's a gag order
00:33:24
nobody can talk about it and it won't
00:33:26
bring any Focus to the negligence that
00:33:29
we have committed because that's the
00:33:30
thing he just doesn't have answers so no
00:33:32
I can't say anything it's like but
00:33:34
you're just lying and making people
00:33:35
believe you less you put a gag order on
00:33:38
himself and he did you don't have
00:33:40
anything to say don't say anything don't
00:33:42
say anything at all because what could
00:33:44
you say if you don't have anything to
00:33:45
say but then he just lied and I was like
00:33:47
that's like a liar he lied right out of
00:33:49
his face and into their faces [ __ ] up
00:33:52
brother but whatever so investigators
00:33:55
thought they actually found that had
00:33:57
actually caught a break in April okay
00:33:59
they finally something popped
00:34:02
two men were arrested in Chicago on
00:34:04
murder charges and they were discovered
00:34:07
to Bear a pretty uncanny resemblance to
00:34:10
the composite sketches yeah we are here
00:34:13
we are now on April 24th Milwaukee
00:34:15
Police because it was in charges were in
00:34:17
Milwaukee Milwaukee Police arrested
00:34:20
Stephen Coffey and Norman Pepin
00:34:23
these were two criminals from Somerville
00:34:27
Massachusetts I was there last night we
00:34:30
were there last night oh my God they're
00:34:32
[ __ ] stomping grounds there it is uh
00:34:35
so they were arrested for attempting to
00:34:37
cash 300 in Travelers checks but those
00:34:40
traveler checks had been stolen from
00:34:42
Travelers Not not just a random person
00:34:44
but one of two men killed in a quote
00:34:47
execution-style killing
00:34:49
oh yeah the previous day they had been
00:34:53
flagged as being dead ringers for the
00:34:56
composite uh sketches execution style
00:34:59
killings oh yeah it gets even crazier so
00:35:02
on Monday April 23rd they met three men
00:35:05
this is what happened they met three men
00:35:07
at a Milwaukee Holiday Inn they were in
00:35:10
the city for an engineering conference
00:35:12
and the four of them went to a disco as
00:35:15
you do loves it now on their way back to
00:35:17
the motel they pulled off the side of
00:35:19
the road and they robbed these men at
00:35:21
gunpoint Jesus they took them to a disco
00:35:23
and then rocked them and what's even
00:35:25
Wilder about this is they then quote
00:35:28
forced them to lie down in a ditch and
00:35:32
shot them to death dude does this sound
00:35:34
familiar sure does now miraculously one
00:35:37
of the men survived wow and he called
00:35:40
the police and was able to identify
00:35:41
these two and he had been shot yeah holy
00:35:44
cow now based on their resemblance to
00:35:46
the sketches and the fact that this was
00:35:49
very very similar made them lie down
00:35:52
face down in a ditch before shooting
00:35:54
them that all that like similarities to
00:35:57
the Burger Chef case uh they had coffee
00:36:00
and Pepin extradited to Indiana I don't
00:36:03
blame them because they were like yeah
00:36:04
we gotta at least look at this you gotta
00:36:06
talk to y'all there they appeared before
00:36:08
a judge and they had to wear paper bags
00:36:10
over their heads because they couldn't
00:36:12
jeopardize a lineup
00:36:14
and it would have tainted a lineup to
00:36:16
have their faces out there I love that
00:36:19
crafty crafty solution and don't you
00:36:21
love that visual yes I do it's so weird
00:36:24
it's it feels wrong now unfortunately
00:36:27
apparently when they looked at the
00:36:29
timeline of everything
00:36:32
police announced on May 1st that coffee
00:36:34
and Pepin were no longer people of
00:36:36
interest in the Burger Chef case did
00:36:39
they give reason just like the timeline
00:36:41
didn't match up but I'm like okay but
00:36:43
like why like I need I need you to say
00:36:46
because they were in Chicago when this
00:36:48
happened well and that's and it's like
00:36:49
yeah the timeline didn't work I'm like
00:36:51
what about it well and also it's like I
00:36:54
don't know if I trust you with this case
00:36:56
I know that I don't yeah I don't know
00:36:59
about that yeah girl me either I just
00:37:02
don't know about that yo no say yeah but
00:37:04
by October of that year investigators
00:37:07
once again found themselves just
00:37:09
completely leadless on this whole thing
00:37:12
and it seemed like the Burger Chef
00:37:14
murders were really fading out of the
00:37:16
the Forefront here they were fading out
00:37:18
of the press people weren't taking as
00:37:19
much interest and on October 2nd the
00:37:23
Metropolitan Board of police
00:37:25
Commissioners voted unanimously to fire
00:37:28
police chief Robert Copeland oh [ __ ] and
00:37:33
they voted to do this because of his
00:37:35
lack of leadership on the bombings and
00:37:39
the murder of Julia and then also the
00:37:42
Burger Chef murders so all the recent
00:37:44
crimes all the things that he failed to
00:37:47
lead his Department about all of his
00:37:49
jobs and so he was fired and then after
00:37:52
that there was a bunch of dismissals or
00:37:55
transfers of like at least a handful of
00:37:57
other law enforcement officers that had
00:38:00
some something to do with the Burger
00:38:02
Chef case wow so they got either
00:38:04
transferred out or they were just
00:38:06
dismissed that's interesting that some
00:38:09
of them got transferred out and some got
00:38:11
distressed it's a very strange I also
00:38:13
don't know about that I don't know about
00:38:15
that now yeah so
00:38:18
years are going by at this point right
00:38:20
tips are starting to dry up they're
00:38:22
coming in but they're not really doing
00:38:24
anything leads are definitely nowhere to
00:38:26
be found and the case is really going
00:38:28
cold at this point then in December of
00:38:32
1984 Indianapolis Star journalist Dan
00:38:36
luziter
00:38:37
I think it's luzad or a loser I thought
00:38:39
you said a loser and I was like I don't
00:38:42
think I think it is okay um he received
00:38:45
a call from an inmate an inmate from the
00:38:47
Marion County Jail finally they're Chit
00:38:49
Chat all righty now this inmate was in
00:38:52
there after being arrested for a ton of
00:38:54
thefts uh this man said that he had
00:38:56
information about the Burger Chef case
00:38:58
he said it's going to be a great story
00:39:00
and I will happily give it to you as
00:39:04
long as you're willing to help me out
00:39:06
no and so Dan was like yeah I don't know
00:39:10
how I can possibly help you because I'm
00:39:13
a journalist like I'm not a judge so
00:39:15
like I don't know what to tell you but
00:39:17
he was like you know what it's worth
00:39:18
finding out at least what he has to say
00:39:20
so he made his way down to the Marion
00:39:22
County Jail to talk to him
00:39:24
now at this point the Burger Chef murder
00:39:27
case is six years old
00:39:29
and at this point like every single
00:39:32
detail had been told retold in the
00:39:35
newspapers they've been had been turned
00:39:38
around had been lied about had been
00:39:40
retracted all this just been through the
00:39:42
mud it has through the thick of it but
00:39:44
it was I guess this reporter Dan he said
00:39:48
that there was something about the story
00:39:51
that he was tell that this guy was
00:39:52
telling him that seemed truthful like it
00:39:55
seemed real okay and he said more
00:39:57
importantly the man claimed to know the
00:40:00
identities of who was responsible for
00:40:02
the murders well so we got it here and
00:40:04
he said one of those people has already
00:40:06
been dismissed by investigators
00:40:09
maybe that's why they were transferred
00:40:11
and then he said the other one was a
00:40:13
name that he had actually heard but that
00:40:15
he this reporter had never heard before
00:40:17
but the police definitely had this guy's
00:40:20
name was Donald Ray Forrester
00:40:22
now Donald Ray forrester's name like I
00:40:25
said didn't ring a bell to Dan but it
00:40:28
definitely rang a bell with the speedway
00:40:30
area police because since he was a teen
00:40:32
Forester had been very familiar with law
00:40:35
enforcement he was a petty criminal
00:40:37
disorderly contact conduct like petty
00:40:40
theft reckless driving those kind of
00:40:42
things what did I say in the beginning I
00:40:44
said this is not their first rodeo no
00:40:46
way there you go I knew it but then
00:40:48
after all these Petty thefts and these
00:40:51
little crimes he definitely escalated to
00:40:53
a violent crime in 1977.
00:40:58
so right before the burger Burger Chef
00:41:01
murders he was arrested for quote
00:41:03
assault and battery with the intent to
00:41:06
gratify sexual desires holy [ __ ] which
00:41:09
is
00:41:10
a mighty escalation yeah that is now
00:41:14
Forrester had actually been out on
00:41:16
parole when the Burger Chef murders were
00:41:20
committed and he was arrested again for
00:41:22
rape in April of 1979.
00:41:27
were the two female victims checked to
00:41:31
see if they had like any signs that they
00:41:33
had been raped it didn't seem like they
00:41:35
had been nothing that I read suggested
00:41:37
that they were okay um but he had been
00:41:39
sentenced to 95 years in prison wow so
00:41:42
good so Dan lucider
00:41:45
um he went on like a research Deep dive
00:41:48
on the Burger Chef murders and on Donald
00:41:50
Ray Forrester because he was like I
00:41:52
gotta try to make a connection here and
00:41:54
then he finally contacted Forrester who
00:41:57
was actually serving out a sentence at
00:41:59
Pendleton Reformatory
00:42:03
[Music]
00:42:15
so they find he finally got him to agree
00:42:17
to meet with him and the meeting was
00:42:19
June 24th 1985. now at that point
00:42:23
Forrester had already been questioned by
00:42:25
investigators about the Burger Chef
00:42:27
murders he had failed to polygraph tests
00:42:31
and but he was saying that he knew
00:42:34
nothing about the case nothing about the
00:42:36
crime it's so funny because when
00:42:38
somebody I'm rooting for fails a
00:42:39
polygraph I'm like it means it made a
00:42:41
hot dog in a trench coat and then when
00:42:43
somebody I'm like I don't know about you
00:42:44
they did it be like yep that was it I
00:42:47
know it's so true but so this reporter
00:42:50
though was like because he again he's
00:42:52
saying he knew nothing about the case
00:42:53
this reporter is not going to give up
00:42:55
hope though because he's like there's
00:42:57
some connections here the timing is
00:42:59
making sense he was out on parole during
00:43:02
that time he had just escalated to a lot
00:43:05
of violence yeah and he committed
00:43:06
another act of violence after yeah it's
00:43:08
not like his name was just pulled out of
00:43:10
thin air you know but when he's going to
00:43:12
meet with him he's like I have to be
00:43:13
realistic about this he might not give
00:43:16
me anything
00:43:17
so when he went he asked Forrester he
00:43:20
said did you commit the murders and
00:43:22
Forester said I did not
00:43:24
but then lusitor began just like Dan he
00:43:28
met he began like pondering aloud he's
00:43:31
like you know I just wonder why why did
00:43:33
these murders occur you know and I guess
00:43:36
Forrester who was not asked directly
00:43:39
this just gave an answer and said it was
00:43:42
drugs drugs and homosexuality
00:43:46
what
00:43:48
what and he went on to say he was
00:43:50
innocent but he said he did know who
00:43:53
committed the murders and he said I'll
00:43:54
give you that information if you get me
00:43:56
a new trial for the rape charges that
00:43:58
I'm in here for Dan is like one more
00:44:00
time for the people in the back I'm a
00:44:02
[ __ ] journalist I can't give you a
00:44:04
new trial dude I can write you a bomb
00:44:07
ass sorry yeah
00:44:09
that's all I got man maybe I could put a
00:44:12
good word in with my editor like I don't
00:44:14
know it's just like are you kidding me
00:44:15
so but over the next few weeks Dan
00:44:18
luziter spent hours and hours and days
00:44:21
and days just investigating Forrester
00:44:24
and eventually he got to interview
00:44:26
forrester's ex-wife oh [ __ ] oh yeah now
00:44:31
his ex-wife she told lucider
00:44:35
um and she told loser that you need to
00:44:37
bring detectives to this house okay so
00:44:41
he did he brought detectives and she led
00:44:43
them to shell casings
00:44:45
that were hidden in the couple's septic
00:44:48
tank that matched the ones found in the
00:44:52
burger ship murders I don't even know
00:44:54
where my septic tank is but they do how
00:44:57
like yeah what yep why so then does that
00:45:03
mean that they weren't flushing their
00:45:05
septic tank I have no idea how that
00:45:07
works you're like don't ask those
00:45:08
questions no I have no idea you're like
00:45:10
what's a sub I'm like I don't know what
00:45:12
they were doing but what the [ __ ] but
00:45:15
lucider brought this information to
00:45:17
Forrester and was like hey
00:45:19
um yeah like uh do you want to say
00:45:21
anything about that and he was like oh
00:45:23
no I'm still Innocent but then he kept
00:45:25
he was like coily giving pieces of
00:45:28
information that you were like you why
00:45:31
would you know how do you know that but
00:45:33
he kept saying he wanted something in
00:45:35
return
00:45:35
and Dan again is like I have nothing to
00:45:38
give so detectives were called in here
00:45:40
to talk to him and detective spent weeks
00:45:42
with him they drove him to locations
00:45:45
around with that they thought might be
00:45:46
connected to the murders they brought
00:45:48
him to a hypnotist in Akron Ohio but he
00:45:52
would not admit to doing it and he said
00:45:55
he'd never been there he had nothing to
00:45:57
do with it investigators were so
00:45:59
frustrated at this point but eventually
00:46:01
he did provide the names of two men that
00:46:04
he claimed were the killers
00:46:07
but detectives interviewed these two men
00:46:09
and they immediately knew he was lying
00:46:11
and also like oh you just took the shell
00:46:13
casings for them yeah they didn't make
00:46:15
your [ __ ] stuff to tank all these
00:46:16
years when they they were like as soon
00:46:19
as they sat down and started talking to
00:46:20
them the two men they were like no no
00:46:24
like this is this is a lie right so by
00:46:26
November of 1986 now nearly eight years
00:46:29
after the Burger Chef murders occurred
00:46:31
detectives were just done they were like
00:46:34
Dan Ford or Donald Forster is not gonna
00:46:36
do the right thing he's not going to
00:46:38
confess of course not we just have to
00:46:40
try to get some evidence to like force
00:46:42
it
00:46:43
and then they were stunned
00:46:46
because they received a call that year
00:46:49
saying that Donald Forester wanted to
00:46:52
chat with them
00:46:54
so no one understands why or what led
00:46:57
this to happen but Donald Forester sat
00:47:00
down with these detectives on November
00:47:02
10 1986 and he gave a detailed
00:47:05
confession of the murders so what do you
00:47:09
mean that this is unsolved so and these
00:47:11
were things details that only someone
00:47:14
who was there that night could have
00:47:15
known
00:47:16
like he described the positions of the
00:47:19
bodies the wounds they suffered one of
00:47:22
the things he said was that Daniel Davis
00:47:24
had been shot in the cheek and that had
00:47:26
never been released to the public
00:47:29
so why didn't did he get her and that's
00:47:31
a pretty spit well he's in jail for 95
00:47:33
years oh right uh so so yeah but did he
00:47:35
have to like well he also told
00:47:37
investigators that the gun that was used
00:47:39
they threw in the White River
00:47:42
which makes sense that they never found
00:47:44
the gun that's a big old River and he
00:47:46
also confessed that it was he it was him
00:47:49
who had shot Ruth Shelton and Daniel
00:47:51
Davis oh my God he admitted to the two
00:47:53
which also makes sense because Jane and
00:47:57
Mark were the ones that were found
00:47:59
further away so not only did he confess
00:48:02
but he's confessing correctly saying I'm
00:48:04
the one who shot the two that were found
00:48:06
on the ground holy [ __ ] yeah it's like
00:48:09
this guy did it and did he say who he
00:48:10
who he did it with her he wouldn't give
00:48:12
them the name now so according to him
00:48:15
the murders quote resulted from an
00:48:18
effort to collect a large debt over a
00:48:20
cocaine deal that involved one of the
00:48:22
victims
00:48:23
and the crime said been committed by
00:48:26
multiple people obviously
00:48:28
now this was not seeming to be the real
00:48:32
story because if we look at the four
00:48:34
people involved like the four victims it
00:48:36
doesn't add up so everybody was like I
00:48:38
don't know about that but in 1981
00:48:41
Jane freit's brother James was arrested
00:48:44
on cocaine charges
00:48:46
oh so you think maybe they went there to
00:48:49
like [ __ ] with his sister yeah to like
00:48:52
intimidate him
00:48:54
and he actually said at the time of his
00:48:56
arrest that he suggested that Jane's
00:48:58
murder could have been connected to his
00:49:00
arrest cocaine [ __ ] oh no no it doesn't
00:49:04
look like the investigators followed up
00:49:07
on it at the time though in 81. what the
00:49:09
[ __ ] were they doing it was in 81 right
00:49:12
like only a few years after a couple of
00:49:14
years after the murders that that he was
00:49:16
arrested Jane's brother and at that time
00:49:19
he said to investigators guys I think
00:49:22
this might be the reason that my sister
00:49:25
was killed and they didn't follow up on
00:49:27
it
00:49:28
like and now this guy is sitting here
00:49:30
saying it's a cocaine deal and is there
00:49:34
any notes or anything like uh
00:49:38
but that's like wild that they just
00:49:40
didn't follow like yeah I cannot imagine
00:49:43
a more poorly [ __ ] handled case than
00:49:46
this no well all the way through
00:49:47
seriously because it's like it's also
00:49:50
once you look at the scene you're like
00:49:51
yeah that actually makes perfect [ __ ]
00:49:54
sense exactly you're like okay now I see
00:49:56
that's why they didn't take the ring
00:49:58
that's why they didn't take the cash
00:50:00
they took the money out of the thing
00:50:02
they got what they wanted and then they
00:50:04
got to that and that's what it makes
00:50:06
sense yeah that's brutal yup now based
00:50:09
on this whole thing police now connected
00:50:11
the murders to the huge drug ring that
00:50:13
had been operating in Speedway at the
00:50:15
time okay uh it was run by a guy that
00:50:17
Forester actually implicated as the
00:50:19
individual who planned the whole thing
00:50:21
in the first place yeah because he was
00:50:23
running it so he wanted his money
00:50:24
exactly now in exchange for the
00:50:26
information forced there was granted
00:50:29
immunity from prosecution for this
00:50:31
because he was already for 95 years but
00:50:34
he was only going to be granted that if
00:50:37
he hadn't committed the murders which he
00:50:39
already confessed to okay so they kind
00:50:41
of like played a little game yeah and
00:50:43
two weeks but this kind of backfired
00:50:45
because two weeks later he recanted
00:50:49
and he said that he had been coerced to
00:50:51
confess by police and that they
00:50:54
threatened to you know they threatened
00:50:56
all this stuff and that he was when he
00:50:58
was sent back to prison he was going to
00:51:00
be labeled an informant and like that
00:51:02
was going to get him killed so that was
00:51:04
him getting scared that he confessed
00:51:06
right that he told all this [ __ ] about a
00:51:07
huge drug ring yeah and then when he
00:51:10
went back in that they were going to
00:51:12
like clearly make him pay for it exactly
00:51:14
so now the confession is recanted and
00:51:17
investigators are looking for anything
00:51:19
that can tie physically forced or to
00:51:22
these murders I mean that confession is
00:51:24
great because he gave the details that
00:51:25
only someone there could know but they
00:51:27
have nothing physical and then it's like
00:51:29
if he's saying it's he was coerced into
00:51:31
that it's their word against him because
00:51:33
then he can say well they gave me those
00:51:34
details exactly but so they're trying to
00:51:37
come up with anything and they came
00:51:39
across a charge from 1969 where
00:51:42
Forrester was actually arrested for
00:51:44
sexually assaulting a 14 year old girl
00:51:46
wow he's a piece of actual human garbage
00:51:48
yup in a wood area off Stone's crossing
00:51:51
road which was about a mile and a half
00:51:53
from where the Burger Chef murders
00:51:54
occurred wow now for some reason he was
00:51:58
never sentenced for sexual assault oh
00:52:00
good but it kind of proved that one he's
00:52:04
a piece of [ __ ] and two that he's
00:52:06
familiar with the area that they were
00:52:08
found now unfortunately district
00:52:10
attorney Stephen Goldsmith didn't think
00:52:12
this was sufficient to prove his guilt
00:52:15
which I can kind of see if I was on a
00:52:17
jury I don't know if it's just not
00:52:19
enough that's the thing now his
00:52:21
confession and then the recanting of
00:52:23
that put the district attorney in a
00:52:26
really bad position
00:52:27
there's one hand that's like the D like
00:52:29
I said the details
00:52:32
it's a near certainty that he is one of
00:52:35
the killers a near certainty but on the
00:52:37
other hand this story had unraveled and
00:52:41
been told and retold and [ __ ] around
00:52:44
so many times that it was now really
00:52:46
difficult to tell what was true and what
00:52:48
was lies and what was manipulated and
00:52:51
what wasn't but the fact that he knew
00:52:53
the details of like one of them being
00:52:55
shot in the cheek when that's never been
00:52:57
released and they all believed like he
00:53:00
100 is one of the killers like that is
00:53:02
it but it just makes proving it yeah
00:53:04
completely uphill battle and the biggest
00:53:08
problem that the district attorney faced
00:53:10
was that so many people had been
00:53:13
involved in the investigation and had
00:53:15
contact with Forrester and all of them
00:53:18
had received varying versions of the
00:53:21
story and none could settle on just one
00:53:24
version of the story yeah so it was like
00:53:26
no one could even settle on like this is
00:53:28
the narrative and then what makes
00:53:30
everything worse is that the territorial
00:53:32
stuff and the ego stuff had completely
00:53:35
plagued everything about this case over
00:53:38
the years had led to so many
00:53:39
miscommunications tainted evidence
00:53:42
missing evidence there was going to be a
00:53:45
mistro if they brought this 100 it was
00:53:48
100 100 it was such a tainted
00:53:52
investigation from the beginning from
00:53:54
the start exactly it was now on December
00:53:57
20th 1986 D.A Goldsmith called a meeting
00:54:00
with investigators from all the agencies
00:54:03
involved in this case together they
00:54:05
combed over forester's statement it was
00:54:08
1200 pages
00:54:10
12 yeah 100 all the statements that he
00:54:14
had made Holy Cannoli and after
00:54:16
reviewing everything Goldsmith's held a
00:54:19
press conference and he made an
00:54:20
announcement he said after careful
00:54:23
consideration of this entire thing he
00:54:25
would not be pursuing charges against
00:54:27
Donald Ray Forrester for the Burger Chef
00:54:29
murders so bad for those families they
00:54:32
must have had Hope For The First Time in
00:54:34
like so many years and then just have
00:54:37
that ripped away from you and he said
00:54:39
that it like killed him to not do it but
00:54:43
he said too many years have gone by too
00:54:46
many mistakes have been made in this
00:54:48
case and I don't know if we're going to
00:54:50
be able to solve it no well nothing like
00:54:52
like legally solve it exactly like ever
00:54:55
I think everybody kind of knows what
00:54:57
happens at this point and it's like
00:54:58
that's horrible for the family that they
00:55:01
had that hope but at the same time I'm
00:55:03
glad that he realized that they didn't
00:55:05
have enough because if all those
00:55:06
families had to go through trials
00:55:08
exactly opening all of that and then to
00:55:10
have end in a mistrial or not guilty
00:55:12
[ __ ] that exactly that's the thing
00:55:15
because it's like if they had gone
00:55:16
through with it it just would have
00:55:17
tainted it further exactly so it's like
00:55:19
I understand why he was like it's really
00:55:21
not worth it to do this oh it's such a
00:55:23
bummer though I know it bummed me out so
00:55:25
much it's like because I know he did it
00:55:27
now in 2003 oh [ __ ] 25 years after the
00:55:32
murders
00:55:34
um Rachel and John Shelton who are the
00:55:36
parents of Ruth Shelton they gave an
00:55:38
interview about the still unsolved
00:55:40
Burger Chef murders and they said at
00:55:42
first I was convinced that it would be
00:55:43
solved that's what her mother said and
00:55:46
she said I guess we sure don't hold our
00:55:47
breath about it it was a very long time
00:55:49
ago which is like so sad because that's
00:55:52
just like like just throwing our hands
00:55:54
up like No One's Gonna Do it now they
00:55:56
had both hoped the killer would have
00:55:58
been caught but then when detectives
00:56:00
told them that they didn't have enough
00:56:01
evidence to prosecute the suspects John
00:56:04
Shelton said to be honest I don't even
00:56:07
want to know their names
00:56:22
yeah like whatever and today the Burger
00:56:25
Chef murder case is open but inactive
00:56:29
it's so hard because it's like now
00:56:31
there's no evidence it's just sitting
00:56:33
there and all the evidence that they do
00:56:35
have all the notes all the statements
00:56:37
and everything it has it's in a five
00:56:39
drawer file cabinet and six and a half
00:56:41
foot wall Locker that's at State Police
00:56:43
District 52 office just sitting there
00:56:46
just not being touched it's been years
00:56:49
since they've pursued any leads and most
00:56:53
of the original investigators are
00:56:55
actually all of the original
00:56:55
investigators on the case have you ever
00:56:58
retired or died yeah and the Burger Chef
00:57:01
restaurant chain was actually sold to
00:57:03
cke restaurant Holdings in 1982 and it
00:57:07
is now Hardy's restaurant which I didn't
00:57:10
know I don't know if I have I heard of
00:57:11
Hardee's Hardee's it's like burgers I
00:57:13
think oh okay yeah
00:57:15
um and today the old Burger Chef
00:57:17
Restaurant on Crawford Crawfordsville
00:57:19
Road and Speedway sits empty isn't that
00:57:23
chilling really changing but then at the
00:57:25
same time it's like what would you want
00:57:27
to see go up there I know other than a
00:57:29
memorial like no it's true like
00:57:31
something I know it should be like a
00:57:32
park yeah I feel like yeah you know but
00:57:34
in the end
00:57:36
we're just left with this nothing this
00:57:39
frustrating void of information that we
00:57:43
know if more investigatory like due
00:57:46
diligence was done from the get-go and
00:57:49
people didn't walk into this thing with
00:57:51
a preconceived narrative in their head
00:57:53
and they had actually taken even one
00:57:56
[ __ ] photo of that scene that this
00:57:59
all could be different is mind-boggling
00:58:01
but now we're sitting here and they're
00:58:03
trying to solve this case
00:58:05
that was just completely erased from the
00:58:08
beginning they erased it right from the
00:58:10
beginning and literally they magic
00:58:12
erased it away yeah and it's like and
00:58:14
then it and then they're trying to like
00:58:16
you know right from the get-go they're
00:58:18
all sitting there being like well I
00:58:20
think these kids just you know uh they
00:58:23
decided that night to just steal all the
00:58:25
money out of the safe and then took off
00:58:26
together like that was their first
00:58:27
Theory and it's like with no prior past
00:58:29
of any kind of [ __ ] with no criminal
00:58:32
past like it's just like okay I see you
00:58:34
I see you and then later they theorize
00:58:36
that it must be Mark the only black
00:58:39
employee that was taken out of that
00:58:41
restaurant that day who knew the killers
00:58:43
and that he was the reason that they
00:58:45
were all killed and it's like with what
00:58:48
[ __ ] evidence you have no evidence to
00:58:50
back that up you're racist like we're
00:58:52
just gonna go with Mark being the
00:58:54
problem here I don't think any of them
00:58:55
were the problem here no I think I think
00:58:57
they were all victims and I think I do
00:59:00
think that if Jane's own brother
00:59:03
suggested that his the cocaine stuff
00:59:06
could have been to do with it like his
00:59:09
sister's murder yeah I think we should
00:59:11
listen to them right they're telling
00:59:13
some follow-up questions on that and
00:59:15
he's not bullshitting it's not like her
00:59:17
his brother her brother is being like Oh
00:59:19
No but he's he's simply saying like
00:59:22
probably out of guilt like probably out
00:59:24
of like anger and sadness and like grief
00:59:27
like this could have had something to do
00:59:29
with it like investigate it and they
00:59:31
were like why would he say that other
00:59:32
than to be like please like exactly this
00:59:34
he's not gonna implicate himself even
00:59:36
further no he brought it like that is
00:59:38
that's a [ __ ] brother yeah absolutely
00:59:40
like regardless of what he was doing in
00:59:42
his personal life or any like the the
00:59:44
cocaine stuff it's like that he was
00:59:46
being a brother yeah like he was being a
00:59:48
brother and being like I'm gonna put
00:59:50
myself out on a limb here and I want you
00:59:52
to investigate this because I think it
00:59:54
could have something to do with it and
00:59:55
they just ignored him
00:59:57
oh and then you have Donald Ray
00:59:59
Forrester sitting there giving that
01:00:00
exact same story and saying it is
01:00:03
because of cocaine right and a debt that
01:00:06
would need it to pay and it's like
01:00:07
that's seems to me to line up
01:00:11
wow yeah it's a very frustrating case
01:00:15
and also if that is if that is the case
01:00:17
with the whole cocaine charge it's like
01:00:19
why did you like you didn't need to
01:00:21
involve his sister in the Burger Chef
01:00:22
Restaurant no it's like [ __ ] up deal
01:00:25
with it directly no it's really [ __ ]
01:00:27
up that's but it's scary what money will
01:00:32
do to people and drugs yeah money and
01:00:34
drugs mixed together
01:00:36
yikes it's like a bad bad combination oh
01:00:40
my God that's so scary drug rings I
01:00:42
think are one of the scariest [ __ ]
01:00:43
things on the planet because it's truly
01:00:44
ruthless yeah that's why I'm just like
01:00:47
okay bye-bye uh yeah with that being
01:00:50
said uh we hope you keep listening and
01:00:52
we hope you keep it wait
01:00:54
it's weird
01:00:55
it's not a drug ring because we're
01:00:57
scared bye
01:00:59
thank you
01:01:02
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