00:00:00
hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elena and
00:00:04
this is officially a big series of
00:00:09
morbid it's a multi-parter and it's like
00:00:13
a celebration of our [ __ ] five
00:00:16
podcast in years guy
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[Music]
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foreign
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[Music]
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ow oh man okay death destruction you
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know and they're like not yours so then
00:00:58
it's five years we're blinding Ash right
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now God I've been going through it on
00:01:03
this podcast lately oh guys
00:01:06
um every episode last week I was like
00:01:08
yeah my stomach hurts I got the stomach
00:01:10
bug Ah that's what it was she was she
00:01:12
was gearing up
00:01:14
the last episode that we did uh I got
00:01:17
the stomach bug that night yeah so yeah
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so for because everybody was like huh
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Ash hasn't been doing great
00:01:24
every episode I was like I don't know my
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stomach is just really off really off it
00:01:29
was off for like a week and then I was
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like you know what I should do I should
00:01:32
eat chicken and waffles yeah and then
00:01:34
the stomach bug said oh you thought
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stupid [ __ ] that's what it said yeah I
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heard it all the way from here yep but
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yeah somehow she got the stomach bug and
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she kept it to herself so I appreciate
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that that's because you weren't anywhere
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near me yeah thank goodness love you so
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much I love you so much I wanted to be
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alone
00:01:54
leave me alone with my norovirus
00:01:56
hopefully you know we're getting out of
00:01:58
that season I hope so let's let's all
00:02:01
just stop giving each other the stomach
00:02:02
bug and [ __ ] be careful GI bugs are
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really uh they're really having a moment
00:02:07
right now yeah ask Beach gem on Tick
00:02:10
Tock she'll tell you all about it oh and
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you know what I learned from Beach gem I
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think it was Beach gem that said it I
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know you've said it before too but I
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think you said it last time you're sick
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you can't use hand sanitizer virus and
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do you know why because it's wrapped in
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a lipid which is a fat look at that
00:02:27
which is a fat fat
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lipids science science with morbid and
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Beach gym yes you have to wash your
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hands for at least 20 seconds yeah so
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you soap and water that'll get rid of
00:02:40
the GI buggies but other than that
00:02:42
they're sticking around because
00:02:44
yeah they're about to get gone no you
00:02:46
said hopefully they're leaving I hope so
00:02:48
let's all knock on wood together April
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showers bring no stomach bugs except
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that's how that goes so it's called
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setting look it up it's called
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manifestation okay uh so yeah this like
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we said this is five years guys
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and I know you looked at the title of
00:03:04
this episode so this isn't going to be a
00:03:06
big exciting surprise right this second
00:03:08
but like I hope you're excited because
00:03:10
you hit play uh you have been asking all
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of you a long time for five years all of
00:03:18
it four HH Holmes yeah I have been
00:03:21
wanting to do HH Holmes for five years
00:03:23
it's true but I knew it was a big long
00:03:25
one
00:03:26
similar to Jack the Ripper I knew that
00:03:29
it needed like real attention paid to it
00:03:32
like because it's just got so much extra
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Josh to it that I was like this is like
00:03:39
you know it's got history it's got all
00:03:40
this Mayhem to it you gotta siphon
00:03:43
through all the lies and find the actual
00:03:47
facts in the case because this
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[ __ ] lied like a liar like a
00:03:53
liar he lied right to everyone's face
00:03:55
holes all the time I like how you're
00:03:57
doing a lot with your hands right now
00:03:59
and the way that you were just like
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digging through the lies I'm digging it
00:04:02
made me think of the little girl in
00:04:04
Knocked Up and she's like and then you
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dig and you dig and then the baby's
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inside that's exactly it you dig and you
00:04:11
dig and you dig and you find a little of
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the truth that's what they say it's a
00:04:16
little truth baby but yeah he was a liar
00:04:18
and I think we're gonna get right into
00:04:20
it I don't know how many parts this is
00:04:21
gonna be many so just strap in I think
00:04:24
it's at least gonna be three buckle up
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good before I'll let you know probably
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in the next episode for sure how many of
00:04:31
how many parts it will be but you know
00:04:34
strap in this is our big five year
00:04:36
series that we wanted to give to HH
00:04:38
Holmes because he's a piece of [ __ ] and
00:04:41
you know the story is wild yeah so
00:04:43
let's start
00:04:45
at the beginning that's a good place to
00:04:47
go it always is in the late 1800s
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Hermann Webster mudget
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Hermann Webster mudget take that in
00:04:57
H.H Holmes's real name is Herman Webster
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mudget so he could have been hm budget
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yeah wow HW budget yeah Webster yeah
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okay we'll just flip it upside down I
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was kind of just thinking about the Real
00:05:14
Housewives of New York when Luanne says
00:05:16
like the Herman Munster shoes there you
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go of course you are yeah but this is
00:05:20
where we need to begin because it's like
00:05:22
all right so H.H Holmes made objectively
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is a is a cool name like H.H Holmes
00:05:30
flows it's a very like Smooth name you
00:05:34
would probably trust in H.H Holmes if
00:05:36
you didn't know this AJ Jones yeah like
00:05:38
all this aside like every all of it of
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course it would be a stage name it would
00:05:43
like H.H Holmes sounds cool yeah Herman
00:05:46
Webster budget doesn't sound as scary no
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or maybe sounds scarier actually I
00:05:51
should say it sounds scarier it just
00:05:53
sounds kind of lame but you know homes
00:05:55
we're gonna we're gonna refer to him as
00:05:57
home homes because that's what he went
00:05:59
by for most of his name that's what
00:06:00
people knew him by that's what his
00:06:01
crimes are really under
00:06:03
um we'll call him Herman for part of
00:06:05
this like in the beginning but you'll
00:06:07
know who we're talking about
00:06:09
um but
00:06:10
AKA HH Holmes he claimed and confessed
00:06:14
to officially killing up to 28 people
00:06:17
some people most people all people
00:06:20
believe that it could be well over 200
00:06:22
people that he has killed you believe
00:06:25
I believe he's way up there yeah I think
00:06:27
he's more than 28. okay
00:06:29
um well the full extent of his crimes
00:06:32
and the number of lives that he did take
00:06:34
is probably something that we may never
00:06:37
know to the nth degree you know like
00:06:39
when I don't think we're going to be
00:06:40
able to find every single person I would
00:06:42
love to believe we could
00:06:44
um it was really his ability to kill
00:06:46
without conscience or hesitation really
00:06:49
for financial gain most of the times
00:06:52
sometimes he did it because he just
00:06:55
liked to do it but most of the time it
00:06:57
was for financial gain do you think it
00:06:58
was like financial gain and he liked it
00:07:01
oh it was for sure yeah it was for sure
00:07:03
mix and I think it was also the
00:07:04
systematic way that he got rid of his
00:07:06
victims in his Murder Castle which don't
00:07:09
worry we will get to it feels like a
00:07:13
horror novel it doesn't feel like real
00:07:15
life yeah when you read the actual facts
00:07:16
of this you're like that's not real but
00:07:18
it is it's wild and in truth he wasn't
00:07:23
really like a genius he wasn't as
00:07:26
calculating as he's really made out to
00:07:28
be he was just a man who learned pretty
00:07:31
early on in life that being a confident
00:07:33
liar can get you a long way in the world
00:07:37
unfortunately sad but true especially if
00:07:40
you can create enough chaos and
00:07:42
confusion to make it absolutely
00:07:44
impossible to actually tell the
00:07:46
difference between fact fact and fiction
00:07:48
You Ever Seen The Great Gatsby there you
00:07:50
go if you can spin a tale so wild that
00:07:53
people can't tell if it's real fake what
00:07:56
is what isn't there's nuggets of Truth
00:07:57
Here There and Everywhere
00:07:59
he can he got a long way with it yeah
00:08:01
and when we go through this you're gonna
00:08:03
see damn he went a long way with it I'm
00:08:06
actually really like excited to hear
00:08:08
your telling of this because I don't
00:08:09
know that much about HH Holmes to be
00:08:11
honest he's they it's weird that like I
00:08:15
think a lot of people a lot of people
00:08:16
know the name HH Holmes they know the
00:08:18
Murder Castle you know if they know like
00:08:21
the the things about it that we've all
00:08:23
been told but when you dig into it and
00:08:26
you realize like he was not just a
00:08:28
monster he was such a piece of [ __ ] like
00:08:32
he was like
00:08:33
he was a piece of [ __ ] in every aspect
00:08:36
of his life good it was like he was just
00:08:38
such a [ __ ] bag it's wild and he was
00:08:41
such a [ __ ] liar such a liar he had
00:08:45
no qualms about hurting everybody along
00:08:47
the way in various ways like emotionally
00:08:50
financially physically anything you
00:08:52
think like he didn't care full-blown
00:08:54
sociopath I think he is full-blown yeah
00:08:57
full-blown and all he gave a [ __ ] about
00:08:59
was money yeah that's all he cared about
00:09:01
and it didn't do him well in the end I
00:09:04
feel like it you if your main goal is
00:09:07
just money it's never gonna work out no
00:09:10
well if you look at like money obsessed
00:09:13
people throughout history they usually
00:09:15
are like yeah it doesn't work out in the
00:09:17
very end in the very end it might work
00:09:19
out along the way
00:09:21
but in the end it doesn't it can't be
00:09:23
your only goal no ultimately it be it
00:09:26
ends up eating you alive it really does
00:09:28
now let's start at the very beginning of
00:09:30
HH home so H.H Holmes like I said was
00:09:33
born Hermann Webster budget in Gilmanton
00:09:36
New Hampshire ah [ __ ] on May 16 1861
00:09:40
his parents were Levi mudget and Theo
00:09:43
date price I think that makes him a
00:09:45
Taurus oh there you go wow I didn't see
00:09:47
that for him I'm gonna double check
00:09:48
though uh but according to H.H Holmes
00:09:51
himself his early years in New Hampshire
00:09:53
were quote no different from those of
00:09:56
any other country bread boy and I was
00:09:58
well trained by loving and religious
00:10:00
parents I don't know about that his
00:10:03
parents were methodists they were very
00:10:05
strict disciplinarians his father Levi
00:10:08
was a house painter and would later go
00:10:10
on to serve as the town's postmaster and
00:10:12
his mother stayed at home she was a
00:10:14
housemaker okay now they were not known
00:10:17
to be like strange
00:10:19
mean to have any like dark ways about
00:10:23
them by neighbors or anything like that
00:10:25
according to Adam Seltzer's book H.H
00:10:27
Holmes this true story of the White City
00:10:29
devil neighbors remembered the mudgets
00:10:32
as quote very upright God-fearing
00:10:35
citizens living in a quiet secluded
00:10:37
section of the country with no trace or
00:10:39
taint of immorality or vice in the
00:10:41
family history for at least three
00:10:43
generations
00:10:45
I love that they were like now we can't
00:10:47
tell you about that fourth generation
00:10:48
they could be heathens of the highest
00:10:50
order but for three generations these
00:10:52
people did the damn thing and they
00:10:54
seemed okay okay like we can vouch for
00:10:56
three generations we're not going back
00:10:58
to that fourth I don't know but it's
00:11:02
weird because you get little again with
00:11:04
that there's a lot of parts of this
00:11:05
story where you hear Holmes himself tell
00:11:09
40 different like versions of the story
00:11:11
or you hear other places just give you
00:11:14
different things you will find if you
00:11:16
read about them that they were you know
00:11:18
there was nothing of note in his
00:11:20
childhood with his parents that seem to
00:11:23
set off anything but him saying like you
00:11:26
know they were good people I didn't
00:11:28
really have anything wrong with them
00:11:29
that is probably true remember it was
00:11:32
the 1800s so I'm pretty sure they were
00:11:36
strict disciplinarians meant they beat
00:11:38
the [ __ ] out of their kids when they got
00:11:40
in trouble and that was just normal back
00:11:42
then so I think it was one of those
00:11:43
things that it was like oh yeah
00:11:45
whatever and normal like all throughout
00:11:47
his life it's just like whatever
00:11:50
but Herman himself I'm going to call him
00:11:52
Herman for now I wrote an autobiography
00:11:55
from prison later called Holmes's Own
00:11:57
Story
00:11:58
and he wrote it in 1895 and he starts
00:12:01
the book like this this will tell you
00:12:04
everything you need to know about what
00:12:05
kind of theater kid this guy is uh quote
00:12:09
come with me if you will to a tiny quiet
00:12:12
New England Village nestling among the
00:12:15
picturesque rugged Hills of New
00:12:17
Hampshire this little Hamlet has for a
00:12:20
century been known as Gilmanton here in
00:12:22
the year 1861 I Hermann W mudget the
00:12:26
author of these Pages was born
00:12:29
narcissist like wow okay girl calm down
00:12:32
look look I it was I the author of these
00:12:36
Pages was born it's fantastic it's like
00:12:39
and the world was the worst place for it
00:12:41
so thank you for bringing us back to
00:12:43
that moment where we all went [ __ ] I
00:12:44
also love that he starts the book with
00:12:46
come with me if you will everybody else
00:12:47
is like no no we're like no no I know it
00:12:50
reminds me of like the in like Willy
00:12:52
Wonka when he's like come with me
00:12:55
like that and it feels the same like
00:12:58
when Willy Wonka did it I was like no
00:13:00
thank you and now when he does it I'm
00:13:01
like no thank you I don't anytime
00:13:04
someone says come with me no thank you
00:13:07
I'm gonna go this way so like we said
00:13:11
the budgets were a well-liked family
00:13:13
homes's childhood seems fairly
00:13:15
unremarkable for the time period
00:13:16
especially his mother had remembered him
00:13:19
as quote a good little child very pretty
00:13:21
and loving
00:13:23
as most moms remember their children
00:13:25
being very pretty and loving but not
00:13:28
everyone remembered him as being so
00:13:29
pretty or so loving as he began to get
00:13:32
older according to Ira Penick a cobbler
00:13:35
in Gilmanton he said quote Herman was a
00:13:38
hard worker but still there were some
00:13:40
things about him I didn't like he was
00:13:42
too fond of money and panic told
00:13:45
reporters that there were a lot of times
00:13:47
when he was around the shop that he
00:13:49
would see money go missing when he had
00:13:51
been around or when Herman would claim
00:13:54
that he'd sent payment for a service he
00:13:57
would just pocket the money himself
00:13:58
that's fake as [ __ ] and in fact of the
00:14:02
many stories that people got after he
00:14:04
was arrested finally which we will get
00:14:06
to in the ultimate episode at the end a
00:14:09
lot of people said that he was generally
00:14:11
polite and pretty like
00:14:13
fine like no one was like wow he was so
00:14:16
popular cool or oh he was so weird and
00:14:18
odd and like we hated him yeah it was
00:14:20
just like he was fine I guess like
00:14:23
whatever but they always mentioned him
00:14:25
possessing a very unhealthy
00:14:28
preoccupation or obsession with money
00:14:30
that was always the thing people were
00:14:32
like yeah he was fine he was polite I
00:14:35
guess like he wasn't super offensive but
00:14:37
like my God that guy was obsessed with
00:14:39
money and it's like when everyone in
00:14:41
your life that is the one like like
00:14:44
Common Thread that everybody can touch
00:14:46
upon that's bad yeah you you want to be
00:14:48
known for like a little bit more a
00:14:50
little bit more than Scrooge mcducking
00:14:52
your way through life I think I like
00:14:54
really good way of doing it was that an
00:14:56
ad for her yeah
00:15:03
but by most accounts he did struggle a
00:15:07
little to develop healthy interpersonal
00:15:09
skills as a child which to me would be a
00:15:12
red flag now considering his adult
00:15:14
activities but at the time you know also
00:15:18
the 1800s so like yeah was there even
00:15:19
people to make friends with anyone
00:15:21
having healthy interpersonal skills at
00:15:23
that point I don't think so but
00:15:24
according to one of his neighbors as a
00:15:27
boy he was quote a boy easily influenced
00:15:29
and did not appear to be well grounded
00:15:31
in firm principles notwithstanding his
00:15:34
excellent home training and instruction
00:15:36
so he just couldn't stand in his own
00:15:38
convictions and honestly didn't seem to
00:15:41
hold any real moral strongholds of his
00:15:44
own and that's not good that's a red
00:15:46
flag to me but other neighbors
00:15:47
remembered him spending a lot of time by
00:15:50
himself kind of being a little bit of a
00:15:51
loner sometimes
00:15:54
um another neighbor named Betsy Betsy
00:15:56
holdley [ __ ] love the name Betsy I
00:15:58
thought you're gonna be like I know
00:15:59
Betsy oh my God that's my good girl
00:16:01
that's Betsy holdley she said I don't
00:16:05
know if you heard that pup bar but she
00:16:07
said quote he always seemed to be by
00:16:08
himself I know that instead of playing
00:16:10
with the other boys he would wander off
00:16:12
alone or on long walks he was never much
00:16:15
of a favorite with the other boys he
00:16:17
seemed to be very secretive he was too
00:16:19
arrogant and domineering to be popular
00:16:21
with the children
00:16:22
again that alone to me isn't a huge
00:16:26
issue but added into everything else
00:16:28
later and it's definitely another red
00:16:29
flag that you're like and what was he
00:16:31
doing off that's the thing and being
00:16:33
secretive it's like you killing animals
00:16:36
and also of note many who knew him as a
00:16:39
boy later said that he would never make
00:16:41
eye contact when addressing children or
00:16:43
adults
00:16:44
would not look you in the eye he
00:16:46
wouldn't look anyone in the eye
00:16:48
to me I was like oh that's that's a
00:16:50
little sketchy but then if you read a
00:16:52
little further into this you see that a
00:16:54
couple of medical professionals did
00:16:56
diagnose him at one point with
00:16:58
stravidmus which is technically like um
00:17:01
cross-eyed oh okay now this can make it
00:17:04
nearly impossible to maintain eye
00:17:06
contact physically and people you know
00:17:09
it can actually like hold people back
00:17:11
because people think look at it as being
00:17:13
like Oh you're sketchy or untrusted
00:17:15
really I just can't but it's really like
00:17:17
he honestly just couldn't look people in
00:17:18
the eye oh that's so like that isn't
00:17:20
super fair to like label as like oh
00:17:23
that's a little like here's the thing
00:17:26
I'm sure he was on like he was
00:17:29
objectively untrustworthy and
00:17:31
objectively a criminal
00:17:33
so like even if he could look you in the
00:17:35
eye I'm sure he wouldn't but right
00:17:37
physically he couldn't so like well we
00:17:39
won't use that yeah we'll rest on that
00:17:42
now although he did like to invent
00:17:44
things when he was younger and he showed
00:17:46
interests in a few areas he never showed
00:17:48
a real Direction and he seemed to kind
00:17:50
of float around without a real purpose
00:17:52
for a while same it was really a bit
00:17:54
later that he finally settled on
00:17:56
medicine as his thing now the stories
00:17:58
recounted to reporters after he was
00:18:01
arrested
00:18:02
um are definitely influenced by what he
00:18:05
did and what he was charged with and
00:18:07
what he was done
00:18:09
so it is like a little biased when you
00:18:12
look at it later and people are seeing
00:18:13
hindsight in full 2020 now remember now
00:18:16
these things are never super red flags
00:18:18
until they add up and you sprinkle in
00:18:21
some murder and then you're like oh yeah
00:18:22
that all makes sense exactly
00:18:24
nevertheless people definitely all kind
00:18:27
of came to a consensus that he was odd
00:18:29
he was very apathetic he was [ __ ]
00:18:33
obsessed with money and honestly when
00:18:35
you put that on with today's
00:18:38
understanding of Psych the psychology of
00:18:40
con artists or Killers it's pretty on
00:18:43
par lines up yeah those line up so it's
00:18:45
not like everybody's just making [ __ ] up
00:18:46
this is who he was now one interesting
00:18:49
story that's often told was that when he
00:18:52
was a young boy
00:18:53
he always had like a fear of the local
00:18:55
doctor's office which is pretty common
00:18:58
in kids and especially I'm sure in the
00:19:00
1800s the local doctor's office was a
00:19:02
scary [ __ ] nightmare Den so we just
00:19:04
have all their like huge ass tools
00:19:06
laying out like I I'm not gonna fault
00:19:08
little little Herman for that one he's
00:19:10
like I bumped mine either like we're
00:19:12
gonna cut it off yeah it's like ah and
00:19:15
this guy
00:19:16
um his name was Dr Nahum white I believe
00:19:19
his last name was or his full name was
00:19:21
and he was a known
00:19:24
um dice like he was very into dissection
00:19:27
he was an anatomist
00:19:28
he was very good at his job he was very
00:19:30
respected but he took dissection to
00:19:33
another level sometimes okay so he had
00:19:35
things in his office that would have
00:19:37
been a little morbid Tim oh and also
00:19:40
like a little scary yeah for a child so
00:19:42
that makes sense but one day
00:19:45
a couple of older boys dragged Herman
00:19:48
forcibly into one of the rooms in the
00:19:51
office and showed him a skeleton
00:19:53
where where are all the employees yeah I
00:19:56
mean 1800s they're like I don't give a
00:19:58
[ __ ] damn I love that they're just like
00:19:59
kid yeah we're gonna run in here real
00:20:01
quick don't don't tell him to run in
00:20:03
this skeleton by all accounts was set up
00:20:06
so that it had its arms outstretched
00:20:08
which Herman said made it look like it
00:20:10
was about to grab him yeah and it was
00:20:12
like this like big like open mouth
00:20:14
skeleton like scary and so it scared the
00:20:17
[ __ ] out of him like totally traumatized
00:20:20
him but at the same time it fascinated
00:20:22
him okay and he said that was the
00:20:25
beginning of his fascination with
00:20:26
medicine and Anatomy okay
00:20:28
I'm sure it scared the [ __ ] out of him I
00:20:30
don't know if that was the beginning of
00:20:32
his real like fascination with medicine
00:20:34
I think he's trying to use that as like
00:20:36
here's this origin tale of my of my
00:20:40
great career in medicine which was
00:20:41
[ __ ] anyways so it's like I don't
00:20:43
know about that well because a lot of
00:20:44
times you're inspired by like multiple
00:20:46
things yeah exactly I was like no I
00:20:48
think that you knew that doctors made
00:20:49
more money and so you wanted to do that
00:20:52
yes
00:20:53
you love a pretty coin yeah I think it's
00:20:56
more that my friend but during his teen
00:20:58
years he graduated high school at 16.
00:21:01
and he started working a number of odd
00:21:03
jobs and finally he ended up teaching at
00:21:05
a local school for a little while it was
00:21:07
during this time where he was teaching
00:21:09
that he fell in love with Clara lovering
00:21:12
Clara was a girl from a prominent family
00:21:15
in nearby Loudon New Hampshire and now
00:21:18
interestingly people who knew Herman
00:21:20
early in life said that he had been
00:21:22
obsessed with getting married very early
00:21:24
in life
00:21:26
um even when he was like 14 years old he
00:21:28
was trying to get that Dowry he was
00:21:30
trying to get that Dowry there you go
00:21:31
and in fact after his grandfather passed
00:21:34
away his grandfather left him a small
00:21:36
parcel of land which was very common
00:21:39
um and he took this as like well I'm a
00:21:41
landowner now so I need to get myself a
00:21:45
wife
00:21:46
slow down so he at 14 he proposed to
00:21:49
this girl who was actually boarding with
00:21:52
that cobbler Ira Penick who was like he
00:21:55
was a weird kiss yeah and probably stole
00:21:57
money from me and also proposed to this
00:21:59
lady that was living with me when he was
00:22:01
14. I guess this girl that he proposed
00:22:03
to was like visiting the country from
00:22:05
New York or something like was staying
00:22:07
and boarding at Ira penics for the like
00:22:10
some period of time sure and so Ira
00:22:12
penic was like yeah you can't marry this
00:22:14
girl she's going back to New York and
00:22:16
like I'm supposed to be taking care of
00:22:18
her and like you can't just like I can't
00:22:20
like marry her off to you you psycho
00:22:22
like what the hell what's happening so
00:22:24
she had apparently either accepted it
00:22:27
and it was like a no you can't do that
00:22:29
or she didn't accept it and the proposal
00:22:31
returned to New York shortly after
00:22:34
um but he was undaunted though don't
00:22:36
worry about it he wasn't gonna that
00:22:37
wasn't the end of his Romanticism but
00:22:40
um he tried again when he met Clara
00:22:42
lovering so Clara was very well liked
00:22:45
very respected people thought she was
00:22:48
sweet and kind and really didn't have a
00:22:50
bad thing to say about her
00:22:52
a neighbor once said about her quote she
00:22:54
was a very pretty little woman when she
00:22:56
was first married and was very devoted
00:22:58
to her husband she was a she was of a
00:23:01
modest and retiring disposition okay
00:23:04
I that sounds great for 1800s like
00:23:07
that's Victorian like you go girl I
00:23:09
think she was an she was an IT girl she
00:23:11
went on hot girl they were like I always
00:23:14
see her in the morning on her hot girl
00:23:15
walk she's drinking her green that's
00:23:17
right she is she's getting it people
00:23:19
said you couldn't help liking Clara oh I
00:23:22
know apparently the two of them began
00:23:24
officially dating at a church social
00:23:27
when Herman slash homes saw another boy
00:23:32
hitting on her oh no you don't and he
00:23:34
basically threatened This Boy's Life if
00:23:36
he didn't back off and that worked
00:23:38
apparently and they make it easy and
00:23:40
like why did that work so well I know
00:23:42
why wasn't that boy like you're not
00:23:44
gonna do [ __ ] Herman you can't yeah but
00:23:46
this guy was probably like he probably
00:23:47
will kill me so because a lot of people
00:23:50
throughout his life were like I think
00:23:52
that guy's gonna murder people exactly
00:23:53
like they just like thought it yeah like
00:23:56
he didn't even need to do anything
00:23:57
violent he did later but when even
00:24:00
before he was like actively outwardly
00:24:02
violent it's like people were like I
00:24:04
don't know I know
00:24:05
I just feel like he's gonna murder
00:24:06
someone someday like he just had that
00:24:08
Vibe foreshadowing I I know you can't
00:24:11
really do anything off of that Vibe like
00:24:13
what are you supposed to do be like I
00:24:14
feel like you're gonna murder someone so
00:24:15
you should get arrested yeah
00:24:18
does worry go listen to the rewatcher
00:24:21
that's a funny funny little tidbit from
00:24:24
there the air worries about him and it
00:24:26
does worry about it but it worked for
00:24:28
Clara this whole threatening the guy
00:24:30
that was hitting on her thing I mean
00:24:32
I mean a guy that she was like all right
00:24:34
back in the day to fight for my office
00:24:36
yeah two guys fighting over your life
00:24:37
you know what's sad he's not going to no
00:24:39
no he's a piece of [ __ ] yeah of course
00:24:41
uh but he proposed not long after they
00:24:43
began quilting
00:24:45
and the two eloped in Alton New
00:24:46
Hampshire in July of 1878 and they were
00:24:49
both 17 years old
00:24:51
now on par with hermann's secrecy and
00:24:54
general oddness it was several months
00:24:56
before his family or Clara's family even
00:24:59
knew that they were married wow uh when
00:25:01
they found out they because they just
00:25:03
got married in front of like a Justice
00:25:04
of the piece yeah when they found out
00:25:06
they were uh not happy on either side
00:25:09
apparently Herman's mother
00:25:11
so H.H Holmes's mother said Clara
00:25:14
couldn't have found much worse
00:25:17
which feels like a stark turn from the
00:25:20
sweet family neighbors remembered from
00:25:22
Herman being like yeah my family is so
00:25:25
kind and wonderful I'm like your mom
00:25:27
didn't think this girl could find much
00:25:28
worse than you oh that's his mom that's
00:25:32
his mom oh [ __ ] so that's what I mean
00:25:35
when I say like imagine if you found out
00:25:37
that your mom said that about you and
00:25:39
she was like she and I guess she said
00:25:40
like oh she's gonna have to support you
00:25:43
oh because she because she knew she was
00:25:45
like he's a [ __ ] deadbeat like she's
00:25:47
like this he's pretty but that's pretty
00:25:49
and he loves money but he can't get it
00:25:52
himself so he's gonna take yours yikes
00:25:54
it's like damn your own mom knew that's
00:25:56
rough but then later if you research a
00:25:59
bit deeper into their family it seems
00:26:02
there was this weird strange jealousy
00:26:05
that his mother and his sister Helen
00:26:08
actually had whenever he found a girl
00:26:11
that he liked I don't like that it was
00:26:14
something strange afoot there
00:26:17
I'm sure of it I just don't know what
00:26:20
you know what though like some families
00:26:22
are like that yeah like especially if if
00:26:24
there's one boy he's always like the
00:26:27
Crown Jewel of the family and it gets
00:26:29
weird sometimes where it's like I'm
00:26:31
gonna kill any girl that comes near him
00:26:33
and stuff and it's like yeah yeah
00:26:35
I think there's a TLC show about it it's
00:26:39
it's always been a weird vibe to me yeah
00:26:41
when like it immediately makes me
00:26:43
question when like uh like that's why I
00:26:45
love my mother-in-law like she was never
00:26:47
ever like that no mine neither like it's
00:26:50
in fact she always is like you know
00:26:52
thank you for making him so happy kind
00:26:54
of thing like she's just always like so
00:26:55
kind and like supportive of it and she
00:26:58
always has been yeah it's always a
00:27:00
little off-putting to me when like
00:27:02
mother-in-laws or future mother-in-laws
00:27:03
are like I'll [ __ ] kill you and it's
00:27:06
like okay all right you like I'll see
00:27:08
tick tocks where like people who don't
00:27:10
like even have kids yet they're like
00:27:11
Someday my son I'll hate his girlfriend
00:27:13
yeah you're like why are you gearing up
00:27:15
for that here's the thing like you can't
00:27:17
yeah period like you you can't like and
00:27:21
you know what I'm saying no doubt you
00:27:23
can't you cannot it's just a it's a
00:27:26
weird vibe it is like you should like my
00:27:29
personal thought process with that and
00:27:31
like we're not getting off on attention
00:27:32
so don't worry or maybe we are and it
00:27:34
doesn't [ __ ] yeah Gonna Go Far don't
00:27:36
worry but my personal thought about that
00:27:39
is that like I want to love the person
00:27:42
mine I think we've talked about this
00:27:43
before they're like I wanna love the
00:27:45
person my kids love of course whoever
00:27:47
they are as long as they're a good
00:27:48
person and they make them happy I'm like
00:27:51
cool eventually I get more kids
00:27:54
like I get to be dude that's what my
00:27:57
future mother-in-law always says Drew's
00:27:59
mom literally says she has six kids see
00:28:01
and that's like it's like that you
00:28:03
should want why wouldn't you want that
00:28:04
yeah that's the ultimate goal exactly I
00:28:07
will love to love the people my loved
00:28:09
ones love right like you know like
00:28:11
that's how it should be like you want to
00:28:13
make sure they're like if they're a [ __ ]
00:28:14
person obviously no then no but if like
00:28:17
they've done nothing and you're just
00:28:18
going into it being like I'm gonna [ __ ]
00:28:19
your world up like that's a good way to
00:28:21
go into any relationship and again you
00:28:24
can you can't so so so Herman monsters
00:28:27
Mom you can yeah
00:28:30
stuck at a place of Rooney you are so
00:28:33
Herman Webster's mom you cannot and
00:28:36
sister you can't either yeah because
00:28:38
that's even worse it's all just yuccas
00:28:40
that takes it even to a weirder Place
00:28:42
yeah uh but Clara's family was not too
00:28:44
pleased either but she was they were not
00:28:46
pleased that they weren't really
00:28:48
established he wasn't stably working
00:28:50
like they were like ah you guys kind of
00:28:53
jumped into this and they were 17. yeah
00:28:55
I mean which at the time I guess it
00:28:57
probably wasn't that weird in the 1800s
00:28:58
but like they weren't I think they were
00:29:01
both just like I would like you guys to
00:29:02
have like a decent life so we gotta Get
00:29:04
You On Track so Clara's family took
00:29:07
matters into their own hands and set
00:29:08
Herman up with a job as a clerk at the
00:29:11
grocery store at a grocery store in East
00:29:13
Concord and it was a grocery store where
00:29:15
Clara's family owned
00:29:17
um and a lot of Clara's family members
00:29:19
worked there too and they said if he
00:29:22
that went well working with him they got
00:29:23
to know him better yeah that's probably
00:29:25
why they did that yeah and it was smart
00:29:27
because they said one thing about him
00:29:29
was that if he even got the slightest
00:29:31
compliment about anything it would blow
00:29:34
his head up wildly oh like a very much
00:29:37
like a narcissistic kind of vibe to it
00:29:40
I'm not diagnosing him don't worry but
00:29:42
get out of your arm chair get out I'm
00:29:43
out of my armchair but I'm just saying
00:29:46
he that's vibey with narcissism for sure
00:29:49
you're definitely like a narcissism
00:29:51
adjacent this is what I'm saying but he
00:29:54
lost love to be complimented okay and
00:29:56
would obsess over it and it would just
00:29:58
make him be like oh you know what I mean
00:30:01
like oh you did really great at stalking
00:30:03
those shelves and he'd be like well
00:30:04
that's because I'm the greatest shelf
00:30:06
stalker this side of the Mississippi you
00:30:08
[ __ ] like bow down before me like you
00:30:11
[ __ ] it was like too much like it was
00:30:14
never like thank you that's you should
00:30:17
just go with but you know whatever by
00:30:20
all accounts at this time the couple
00:30:21
seemed fine they seemed happy in fact
00:30:24
people said he was seemingly in the
00:30:26
beginning very smitten with Clara
00:30:28
um people said he would walk like miles
00:30:31
to see her after work and then walk
00:30:32
miles back to work I hate saying oh I
00:30:35
know because in the beginning it looks
00:30:36
like there was intentions of possibly
00:30:39
living a a life with a clean you know
00:30:43
but I think the intention was probably
00:30:44
fleeting to the point of being like
00:30:47
maybe oh and it's gone like it was
00:30:50
literally like
00:30:51
like couldn't even couldn't even blink
00:30:53
without like it was that quick uh
00:30:56
because he never had any good intentions
00:30:57
ever again so don't worry good now a
00:31:00
year and a half later the couple's son
00:31:03
Robert was born in February 1880.
00:31:07
um in in his teens he had been like I
00:31:09
said very aimless didn't really know
00:31:11
what he was doing but they said when
00:31:14
when he got married and when he became a
00:31:16
father it did seem to awaken some kind
00:31:19
of like I gotta get my [ __ ] together
00:31:21
that's good that's usually what it
00:31:23
should do he wanted to be somebody he
00:31:25
was claiming
00:31:26
um and Holmes's position as a store
00:31:28
clerk didn't really give him an
00:31:31
opportunity to like rise up the ranks in
00:31:33
his opinion like enough and he's so and
00:31:37
it really was only meant to be a
00:31:39
stepping stone because I think it was
00:31:40
Clara's Uncle who had owned the store
00:31:42
and he was like I was just trying to
00:31:43
give you this to get like a leg up yeah
00:31:45
you know so like save some money I don't
00:31:47
don't worry it's like I didn't want you
00:31:48
to take over the [ __ ] business
00:31:49
[ __ ] well in his whole idea was like
00:31:52
Hey I was giving you this leg up maybe
00:31:54
you learned this business and maybe you
00:31:55
go open your own store somewhere yeah
00:31:57
maybe maybe you get to know this whole
00:31:58
business you and then you're a store
00:32:00
owner somewhere else right you can you
00:32:02
know everybody's happy and even if not
00:32:04
that like you tuck some money away and
00:32:06
you learned a little bit about business
00:32:07
you know in working with people and
00:32:09
finances and all this stuff just about
00:32:11
being in the Working World just being a
00:32:13
human you know but he homes quickly
00:32:16
Herman I should say at this point he saw
00:32:18
Herman but he quickly grew pretty tired
00:32:21
of this work he thought quote that he
00:32:23
thought he was quote altogether too
00:32:25
bright for the life of a country store
00:32:27
keeper okay in um an interview after he
00:32:30
was arrested Clara actually said to
00:32:32
reporters father tried to encourage him
00:32:35
by telling him that someday he could
00:32:36
have a store of his own and could make a
00:32:38
very comfortable living but he seemed to
00:32:40
think he was too smart for such an
00:32:42
ordinary occupation he thought he could
00:32:44
make a lot of money fast he became
00:32:46
imbued with the idea of becoming a
00:32:48
doctor and he used the talk of the
00:32:50
immense Fortune fortunes that Physicians
00:32:52
had made in a short time especially if
00:32:55
they invented some patent medicine
00:32:58
he became obsessed with creating some
00:33:01
kind of patent patented medicine I
00:33:02
remember that part of the story now
00:33:04
despite his penchant for get rich quick
00:33:07
schemes like he was that kind of guy
00:33:09
yeah like you know those kind of people
00:33:11
Tommy Haverford exactly he did seem at
00:33:14
this time that he was becoming very
00:33:16
serious about becoming a doctor
00:33:18
so which wasn't a get rich quick scheme
00:33:21
he was going to have to go through a lot
00:33:22
of training obviously and spend a lot of
00:33:24
money exactly so he did quit his job at
00:33:26
the General Store and he started
00:33:28
studying with Dr nahim Nahum Wright who
00:33:31
or white excuse me who had owned that
00:33:34
practice in Gilmanton the one who owned
00:33:36
that office and was a um an anatomist
00:33:38
and he was very respected very renowned
00:33:41
amputations though right loved
00:33:43
amputations loved a like very morbid
00:33:46
dissection like he was just and he again
00:33:48
he was a very good doctor by all
00:33:51
accounts he was very respected held many
00:33:54
esteemed positions like not bad things
00:33:57
to say about this doctor at all he just
00:33:59
at the time was seen as someone who took
00:34:02
it to a different level okay now maybe
00:34:04
it wouldn't be okay back then it was
00:34:07
um but he started working with him he
00:34:09
was studying underneath him and it's
00:34:11
funny because he came full circle back
00:34:13
to that office with the skeleton that
00:34:15
scared the [ __ ] out of him that is funny
00:34:16
well maybe that's why he said too like
00:34:18
oh it all started it here yeah and it's
00:34:19
like I wonder if his like extreme
00:34:21
dissections and extreme like um kind of
00:34:25
uh displays of anatomy in that office
00:34:28
was something that Holmes suddenly found
00:34:30
himself drawn like sparked something
00:34:31
within him and when he wasn't working
00:34:33
with Dr White he would spend a ton of
00:34:36
time studying on his own time uh medical
00:34:39
books any medical book he got his hands
00:34:41
on because he just wanted to start right
00:34:43
away
00:34:44
and by 1881 he took a job teaching at
00:34:48
the potter District school in Gilmanton
00:34:49
which remember he had taught before
00:34:52
um and this was like a small class of
00:34:54
like 15 students so he didn't have a ton
00:34:56
that he had to do for that job so it
00:34:58
allowed him a lot of time to study on
00:35:01
the side okay meanwhile Clara and Robert
00:35:03
were living with her parents in Loudon
00:35:06
she was essentially raising him as a
00:35:08
single parent like he was kind of absent
00:35:11
from that child's life
00:35:14
um well maybe that's a better joke maybe
00:35:16
it was better for him but the distance
00:35:18
between her and Herman at the time was
00:35:21
just getting bigger and bigger
00:35:23
um and in the spring of 1882 Combs left
00:35:26
Herman left Gilmanton for Burlington
00:35:28
Vermont and he started studying medicine
00:35:30
at the University of Vermont so he was
00:35:33
even further away now it should be noted
00:35:35
that medical schools at the time were
00:35:37
regarded pretty dubiously if you listen
00:35:40
to our Birkin hair series you remember
00:35:42
talk of Resurrection men
00:35:44
resurrectionists or grave robbers how
00:35:47
could I forget Med students themselves
00:35:49
were basically known to grave Rob for
00:35:51
their Anatomy lessons it was almost one
00:35:53
of those things where like you could
00:35:55
show how committed you were by being
00:35:57
like I dug my own corpse for anatomy
00:35:59
today fantastic corpses were not easy to
00:36:01
come by legally at the time and
00:36:03
pre-doctors got a doctor so they're
00:36:05
gonna do what they got to do
00:36:08
um I found in one of the sources that we
00:36:10
will list in the show notes I found this
00:36:12
Epitaph of a nine-year-old girl named
00:36:15
Ruth Sprague from 191846 who died in
00:36:18
Hoosick Falls this just kind of shows
00:36:20
what people thought of physicians at the
00:36:23
time it reads her body dissected by
00:36:26
fiendish men her bones anatomized her
00:36:29
soul We Trust has risen to God where few
00:36:32
Physicians were eyes oh [ __ ] but it's
00:36:35
like Physicians going to who I was like
00:36:37
I don't know if that's really fair but
00:36:39
like you're like they might save your
00:36:40
kid at some point I mean you at the time
00:36:43
that's the only way they had just
00:36:45
discovered that you can't properly teach
00:36:47
Physicians without dissecting corpses
00:36:49
it's just the way it is to this day we
00:36:52
do that because you have to right in
00:36:54
order to learn about the human body you
00:36:55
gotta open the human body up it's just
00:36:57
the way it is Hands-On baby there you go
00:36:59
like fortunately now it's all legal
00:37:03
you know much more ethical much more all
00:37:06
of that good stuff back then nothing was
00:37:08
legal or ethical or anything of the or
00:37:11
[ __ ] even hygienic like it's like are
00:37:15
they still throwing [ __ ] out the window
00:37:16
at this point it was Wily then like if
00:37:18
you look up pictures I gotta find the
00:37:20
picture and maybe we'll try to post it
00:37:22
of like these you know early Med
00:37:25
students in the 1800s doing a dissection
00:37:28
and we can like blur out the thing if
00:37:30
you want but I mean they even put a note
00:37:32
exactly just so you know it's really not
00:37:34
gruesome to be honest but all of them
00:37:36
are in three piece suits and just
00:37:38
wearing like leather aprons over their
00:37:40
three-piece suits
00:37:42
autopsy essentially and it's like I
00:37:45
can't imagine
00:37:46
eviscerating in a three-piece suit I
00:37:49
don't think you are meant to like that
00:37:51
is a wild but how [ __ ] Dapper is that
00:37:55
oh I was saying to you earlier we were
00:37:58
having this discussion even just like
00:37:59
the fact like how women used to do their
00:38:01
hair I'm like yeah I want to do my hair
00:38:03
like that I'm about to start [ __ ]
00:38:04
sleeping with socks wrapped all up in
00:38:06
this knot yeah to make it these soft
00:38:08
curls yes yeah I like the voluminous
00:38:10
little things back then they they had it
00:38:12
right I mean would I say that you should
00:38:14
eviscerate in a three-piece suit now no
00:38:16
but we got cool pictures from back then
00:38:19
so that's all that matters cheers but
00:38:21
either way again they were they were
00:38:23
looked at as a little little side eye
00:38:25
students
00:38:27
I just wanted to set the tone so very
00:38:30
few peers or college faculty really seem
00:38:33
to have even remembered Herman much from
00:38:36
this time period but those that did said
00:38:39
they wasn't exactly their favorite
00:38:41
person
00:38:43
he wasn't terrible he just he wasn't
00:38:45
that great either okay
00:38:47
um a woman named uh Mrs Brew who homes
00:38:50
actually boarded with for nearly his
00:38:52
entire stay in Burlington because they
00:38:54
Med students would stay at boarding
00:38:56
homes like people would keep them in
00:38:58
there it's like Top Chef there you go
00:39:00
she's exactly like that she's a project
00:39:04
there you go she remembered Herman
00:39:07
saying that he was married because he
00:39:09
was still married to Clara don't you
00:39:11
forget it technically but he was quote
00:39:13
always flirting with a number of young
00:39:15
girls in Burlington what a piece of poop
00:39:17
and he actually paid particular
00:39:19
attention to Brew's daughter which she
00:39:21
did not like oh no and they're living
00:39:23
together yes Mrs Brew also said that
00:39:26
Herman would wake up early every morning
00:39:29
and leave the house for what he said
00:39:31
were long walks for his health gotta get
00:39:33
those steps in but yeah it's like he put
00:39:35
on his Apple watch and he was out there
00:39:37
Herman on a hot trying to get that
00:39:39
trying to close those Rings trying to
00:39:41
get to 10K baby on a hawk or a walk but
00:39:44
he also would have wine with an elderly
00:39:46
Widow every day and at first you're like
00:39:49
wow that's lovely but then it's like no
00:39:51
he was just trying to get her money yeah
00:39:53
like he absolutely was with her even Mrs
00:39:56
Brew was like that [ __ ] was trying to
00:39:57
get her money yeah like 100 you fake
00:40:00
piece of [ __ ] it's like in Gilmore Girls
00:40:02
when Kirk befriends elderly residents of
00:40:05
Stars Hollow so that he can be put in
00:40:06
their will and get their diamonds and
00:40:08
then he sells one to Luke later to
00:40:09
propose to Lorelei you know it's just
00:40:11
like this isn't it wild that Kirk did
00:40:13
that yeah like I love Kirk it makes
00:40:16
sense it really does he I think he
00:40:18
doesn't quite get the the bad of it all
00:40:19
exactly you know now according to Mrs
00:40:22
Brew
00:40:23
um Herman was fine generally pleasant
00:40:27
but besides being a like super flirt
00:40:29
okay
00:40:30
um but she said when aroused and being
00:40:33
aroused like us I was like I was gonna
00:40:35
say I feel like I need to like quickly
00:40:37
be like she doesn't mean sexually she
00:40:39
doesn't mean
00:40:40
he would get like worked up borrowed
00:40:43
Hammond's mustache wax without asking
00:40:46
for it permission and this led Herman to
00:40:50
literally beat the [ __ ] out of him oh no
00:40:53
a huge physical altercation arose
00:40:55
between them like they bought the two of
00:40:58
them [ __ ] end quote the Gilmanton boy
00:41:01
literally cleaned up the room with his
00:41:03
companion that's how it was described oh
00:41:05
my God and love and I mean this is my
00:41:07
favorite because of what it is over
00:41:08
because it's ridiculous and left him
00:41:10
with black eyes and a scratched face
00:41:12
over a little bit of the fact that it
00:41:14
was over mustache wax is so Victorian I
00:41:17
can't the only thing I can think of is
00:41:18
that like it would have been probably
00:41:20
pretty expensive back then and I also
00:41:22
think he was just like a wild man yeah I
00:41:24
was just ready to hurt someone at a
00:41:26
moment's notice I think you call that
00:41:28
issues issues I think so give him a
00:41:31
teacher no during this time
00:41:33
um Herman was very focused on getting
00:41:35
through med school as quickly as
00:41:37
possible he wanted to start making that
00:41:40
bank and that's like not the way that
00:41:43
school not like quick and this was
00:41:45
seemingly at the cost of literally
00:41:47
everything in his life uh well most
00:41:50
people knew he was married to a woman in
00:41:52
New Hampshire he never really spoke
00:41:53
about Clara to anyone she never visited
00:41:56
him instead he just spent his time
00:41:58
studying or he would kind of just pursue
00:42:02
subjects that he didn't think were
00:42:03
covered well enough in school which you
00:42:06
would think would make him smarter but
00:42:07
it didn't
00:42:09
Mrs Broome
00:42:11
Mrs Brew said quote he always pictured
00:42:14
himself as at the top notch of his
00:42:16
profession I rather thought he had a
00:42:18
very high idea of his ability that he
00:42:20
was self-conceited those are like the
00:42:23
worst kind of people to be around too
00:42:25
like you're just like oh you were like
00:42:28
like a know-it-all is not my faith and
00:42:31
know it all is the worst kind of person
00:42:33
ever they really are
00:42:35
we [ __ ] hate no at all I hate them
00:42:38
all they're the worst every time I look
00:42:41
in the mirror I'm like [ __ ] you
00:42:49
I love it it's not funny
00:42:52
I'm just kidding you know you have to
00:42:55
laugh at yourself but of of all the
00:42:58
subjects that he covered in med school
00:43:01
he was really into chemistry which is
00:43:04
why a very Grim foreshadowing of his
00:43:07
future activities in Chicago by the way
00:43:10
which we will get to oh hate that can I
00:43:12
just say yeah I [ __ ] hated chemistry
00:43:15
in high school I like chemistry but it
00:43:17
was one of the hardest subjects to me I
00:43:20
never I never understood chemistry it's
00:43:22
very interesting to me but it is [ __ ]
00:43:25
hard like that was one of the subjects I
00:43:27
struggled with it is interesting biology
00:43:28
I got you a biologists it's hard an
00:43:32
organic chemistry I think that's what I
00:43:34
had to take actually in high school and
00:43:36
I literally took organic chemistry in
00:43:38
high school okay maybe not I was like
00:43:40
what the [ __ ]
00:43:42
um
00:43:44
organic chemistry just sucks I don't
00:43:46
know whatever we took I didn't
00:43:47
understand but what's worse than
00:43:49
chemistry is the other [ __ ] one that
00:43:52
you have to take maybe it starts with a
00:43:54
P
00:43:55
physics yeah [ __ ] [ __ ] this oh my God
00:43:59
and I had this I mean like don't [ __ ]
00:44:00
physics like in reality because like we
00:44:02
need it no we need so much fun but like
00:44:03
I don't want to learn inertia who knows
00:44:05
her I don't know her who knows inertia I
00:44:08
hardly know her
00:44:09
inertia I hardly know huh
00:44:14
there we go
00:44:16
don't worry I fixed it
00:44:19
okay
00:44:21
so loved chemistry not a great
00:44:24
foreshadowing in the future uh Mrs Bruce
00:44:28
said he was just always [ __ ] around
00:44:29
with liquids and concoctions in his room
00:44:31
at the boarding house with like and with
00:44:34
with little free time he had he actually
00:44:36
got a tutor to help him in chemistry
00:44:38
because he was so focused on it okay Dr
00:44:40
J.O Lindsley
00:44:42
who is a physician and expert in
00:44:44
chemistry and he did this because he
00:44:45
thought the chem department just did a
00:44:47
[ __ ] job he was like you're not doing
00:44:48
enough okay that's just like who he was
00:44:50
like you don't know what you're doing
00:44:52
yet so how do you know that they're not
00:44:54
doing it right now but he quickly turned
00:44:56
his room at the boarding house into like
00:44:58
a laboratory essentially
00:45:01
um tons of bottles and all kinds of test
00:45:03
tubes and fluids and unlabeled [ __ ] and
00:45:07
like just it was starting to get Wily up
00:45:09
in there and it scared the [ __ ] out of
00:45:12
Mrs Brew like it would scare me too he
00:45:14
was like she was like it was starting to
00:45:15
get a little too much for me I think I'm
00:45:17
like [ __ ] in the head with like things
00:45:19
that I like relate other things all I
00:45:22
can think of right now is Jack in The
00:45:24
Nightmare Before Christmas trying to
00:45:25
figure out the meaning of hell or of
00:45:27
Christmas and then Sally is Mrs Brew
00:45:29
yeah yeah absolutely but my brain like
00:45:32
he's just sitting there like [ __ ]
00:45:33
around with taking pictures in his room
00:45:34
yeah yeah right he's like you know
00:45:36
dissolving Herman's like what's up
00:45:38
[Laughter]
00:45:46
he's not Jack Skellington I still have
00:45:49
Jack Skellington
00:45:51
wild the amount of people that are in
00:45:53
the same boat as you yeah and it was
00:45:55
honestly it was a foreshadowing to who I
00:45:57
would marry because I I love me at all a
00:45:59
tall skeleton of a man
00:46:01
that's what I love I love that with a
00:46:04
great voice oh my gosh so there you go
00:46:06
because I loved Jack's voice and
00:46:08
everybody on planet Earth loves John's
00:46:11
voice I mean I can't blame you uh he
00:46:15
does he has a great one now according to
00:46:17
Mrs Bruce quote Herman was fairly wild
00:46:20
over chemistry
00:46:23
I love that [ __ ] used that word too like
00:46:25
he was fairly wild she was like that
00:46:28
dude was feral up there he was going off
00:46:31
but she said and he was all the time
00:46:34
experimenting with liquids in his room
00:46:36
and while she kind of looked at it as he
00:46:40
was just very committed to med school
00:46:42
it's probably more likely that he just
00:46:45
wanted to get as much experience with
00:46:47
chemistry because he wanted to patent
00:46:49
that medicine to become [ __ ] Rich
00:46:51
right away he knew that was the subject
00:46:54
he that's why he got the tutor that's
00:46:55
everything it wasn't oh they're not
00:46:57
doing enough at school and I'm just
00:46:58
really committed to my education it's
00:47:00
like no I need to make a medicine right
00:47:02
so I can get a million zillion dollars
00:47:04
fast track now he was always telling
00:47:06
everyone at the boarding house that he
00:47:09
knew what he was doing with the
00:47:10
chemicals everyone needs to chill but I
00:47:12
don't blame everybody for being scared
00:47:14
shitless I'd be scared that it was just
00:47:16
gonna explode I'm also surprised that he
00:47:17
was allowed to have the amount of
00:47:18
chemicals he had I know they just kind
00:47:20
of let it happen but
00:47:22
also said that when he left finally that
00:47:25
they found about three pounds of shingle
00:47:27
Nails hidden away in his closet I'm
00:47:29
sorry Hua and they never understood what
00:47:32
he had them for that's the only for the
00:47:34
better probably we probably don't want
00:47:36
to know what shingle nails like big
00:47:38
nails like I think like roofing nails
00:47:40
like [ __ ] all like really heavy duty
00:47:42
nails but
00:47:44
again very determined to get this done
00:47:47
as fast as possible and he was kind of
00:47:49
overextending himself in all directions
00:47:50
to get this done he was constantly
00:47:53
taking on extra work but then one day
00:47:56
this took a very dark turn because again
00:47:59
he's doing all this extracurricular work
00:48:01
on top of all his work
00:48:03
so the darkest one might say was when
00:48:06
Mrs Brew did her daily house cleaning
00:48:09
and one of these times she was sweeping
00:48:11
upstairs and noticed a strong odor
00:48:14
coming from Herman's bedroom
00:48:16
so she starts investigating the smell
00:48:18
and she's coming over to his bed and
00:48:21
she's like why does it smell over you
00:48:22
what the [ __ ] is this so she sweeps her
00:48:24
broom under the bed and something comes
00:48:26
flying out and she was [ __ ] horrified
00:48:29
to discover that when she swept out the
00:48:31
object under the bed that was creating
00:48:33
the stench it was quote
00:48:36
the body of a baby less than a year old
00:48:39
oh my God stretched out on a board oh my
00:48:42
God I was not expecting that none of us
00:48:44
were a real baby a human baby less than
00:48:48
a year old who had obviously died was
00:48:50
obviously being used for dissection and
00:48:52
he took it home but you can't be doing
00:48:54
you can't just take it home because it
00:48:56
was on a board so it was obviously being
00:48:58
a medical studied specimen quote unquote
00:49:00
sure to be dissected but he took it home
00:49:06
that's not at all normal in any stretch
00:49:11
of any imagination or legal nope not at
00:49:14
all she [ __ ] lost it obviously
00:49:16
immediately confronted Fred Ingles
00:49:19
because that was his roommate oh yep and
00:49:21
she was like where the [ __ ] did this
00:49:23
come from and Fred was like uh so he
00:49:25
said he had quote um he had here excuse
00:49:28
me Fred confronted Herman yeah because
00:49:31
he was like I don't know what that is
00:49:32
not mine and her he said that Herman
00:49:35
told him that he had quote brought the
00:49:37
body in during the night and had started
00:49:39
to dissect it
00:49:40
and he had no idea how or where he had
00:49:44
acquired this body but he said quote the
00:49:46
site was so repulsive to him that he
00:49:48
could not go to sleep realizing that
00:49:50
that body had been in his room for how
00:49:52
long no [ __ ] way Mrs Bruce said she
00:49:54
couldn't sleep for weeks and even like
00:49:56
13 years later when she talked about it
00:49:58
she was still like shuddering of course
00:50:00
I can't imagine you have no idea when
00:50:03
you're about to sweep under that from
00:50:04
under that bed and it's a baby and he
00:50:06
did it again another time he brought him
00:50:08
another baby at one point I'm surprised
00:50:09
not to this morning house right then air
00:50:12
well that's the thing he never said
00:50:13
where he got this baby but as soon as he
00:50:16
got back that night she was like
00:50:18
um okay new house rule dissection of
00:50:21
human remains cannot happen in my house
00:50:23
like didn't think I'd have to say that
00:50:25
didn't think I had to add that to the
00:50:27
lease agreement but here we are wow yeah
00:50:29
it's like when you see those stupid
00:50:31
warnings on like things that are like
00:50:32
hey don't eat this like very horrible
00:50:36
liquid that will turn your stomach
00:50:37
inside out yeah and it's like someone
00:50:39
ate that oh 100 for that to have to be a
00:50:42
warning or like don't stand in this
00:50:45
trash compactor and it's like that that
00:50:47
was because someone did it and they had
00:50:49
to put it down no it's true that's now
00:50:51
that's in her lease agreement for future
00:50:52
tenants and people are like someone did
00:50:54
that and we you have to agree to it
00:50:56
though I'm that little [ __ ] that one
00:50:57
time ate a glow stick damn yeah I forgot
00:51:01
about that yeah I was like very little
00:51:02
yeah like it wasn't very recent yeah
00:51:05
it was like five years ago
00:51:08
the other day no I'm just kidding it was
00:51:10
a while ago but when the semester ended
00:51:13
that summer he told the Mrs brew that he
00:51:16
would most likely not be returning to
00:51:17
Burlington the following semester and
00:51:19
she was like a bite yeah and she was
00:51:21
like that's fine and she actually said
00:51:23
that he quote did not think that the
00:51:25
university here offered enough
00:51:27
advantages for such a brilliant and
00:51:29
promising young man that's what he
00:51:31
thought that's basically what he told
00:51:33
her get out of here yeah and he was also
00:51:35
he was also apparently disappointed with
00:51:37
the limited number of chemistry courses
00:51:39
offered he's very into chemistry I
00:51:42
wonder why and he felt that he could go
00:51:45
to the University of Michigan at Ann
00:51:46
Arbor and that would be a better place
00:51:48
to go with a better price I'm from
00:51:51
Michigan I'm from Michigan
00:51:54
so just a few months later he followed
00:51:56
through with the plan and he enrolled at
00:51:58
the University of medicine or medicine
00:52:00
at the University of Michigan the
00:52:03
medicine in the Michigan and the
00:52:04
medicine
00:52:06
so for now he's leaving New England
00:52:10
come back oh and throughout this entire
00:52:13
thing Clara has been supporting him
00:52:15
financially by the way Clara and also
00:52:18
raising their sons sweetie no like
00:52:20
literally his whole life is being
00:52:23
supported by Clara Herman I don't know
00:52:25
her Herman [ __ ] off so Herman relocates
00:52:28
to Ann Arbor in 1882 and uh despite his
00:52:32
mom and his sister not being happy about
00:52:34
it Clara and the baby went with him this
00:52:36
time how dare you live with your husband
00:52:39
and remember they have a weird thing you
00:52:42
can't his mom and sister Helen never
00:52:45
liked Clara because of that weird
00:52:46
jealousy thing and they would frequently
00:52:48
encourage him to end the relationship
00:52:50
kind meanwhile Claire is doing
00:52:51
everything for him but okay according to
00:52:54
Laura young who ran the general store
00:52:56
after Herman left she was um Clara's
00:52:59
cousin she said quote when Herman went
00:53:02
to Ann Arbor to study Mrs mudget and
00:53:04
Helen thought it was outrageous for
00:53:06
Clara to go with him his sister Helen
00:53:08
made the statement long before Herman
00:53:10
left that he was not going to live with
00:53:12
her any longer and she must support
00:53:14
herself the sister used to say that
00:53:16
Clara was not bright enough not refined
00:53:19
enough for Herman
00:53:21
bet you guys regret that huh yeah
00:53:24
because your brother turned out to be
00:53:25
one of the most disgusting con men and
00:53:27
serial killers in history also
00:53:29
outrageous
00:53:32
yeah Helen Clara's not bright enough or
00:53:36
refined enough for your [ __ ] monster
00:53:39
of a brother yeah Clara takes several
00:53:41
seats you wanna or not walk that
00:53:44
statement back Helen and Mama mudget
00:53:47
like like really that's a that's a whole
00:53:50
bunch of wild right there yeah that's
00:53:52
one of those you wish you could take
00:53:53
back that didn't age well no now Clara
00:53:56
began working as a dressmaker in Ann
00:53:58
Arbor well he focused on finishing his
00:54:00
medical degree
00:54:02
um but they did not have a good marriage
00:54:05
um even before the couple left for
00:54:06
Michigan Herman had said to Laura young
00:54:09
Clara's cousin quote being married would
00:54:12
likely prevent him from rising as far in
00:54:15
the world as he would have let he would
00:54:16
have otherwise and that he thought that
00:54:18
he and Clara would not get on together
00:54:20
very well
00:54:21
he is wildly narcissistic like he's
00:54:24
literally like it's her dead weight
00:54:27
that's making me not rise up in the
00:54:28
world it's like no I think you're just
00:54:30
dumb and I don't think you're good at
00:54:31
this you're only moving around on her
00:54:33
dime as well literally she's the only
00:54:35
one doing anything and raising your
00:54:37
child I think she could actually launch
00:54:38
you into success if you [ __ ] gave her
00:54:40
a second so when they moved to Michigan
00:54:42
they lived in a boarding house and the
00:54:44
other borders there said that they
00:54:46
remembered Clara very fondly she they
00:54:48
said she was quote a very pleasant woman
00:54:50
and willing to make any sacrifice that
00:54:53
she might help homes along in his course
00:54:55
so they saw her as very sweet very kind
00:54:58
and that she would do [ __ ] anything
00:55:00
for him oh yeah they also said the
00:55:03
couple fought a lot and that Clara quote
00:55:05
was sometimes seen around the rooming
00:55:07
house with black eyes oh my God ding
00:55:09
ding ding he officially crossed over
00:55:11
into monster territory what the [ __ ] so
00:55:13
not only is he just like a lazy [ __ ]
00:55:16
piece of [ __ ] he's an abusive piece of
00:55:18
[ __ ] too so we have violence [ __ ] you
00:55:20
Herman now Clara struggled to keep the
00:55:23
family afloat by herself for nearly two
00:55:25
years and the relationship was just
00:55:27
crumbling steadily and finally just
00:55:29
months before Herman graduated from the
00:55:32
University of Michigan she decided she
00:55:35
had [ __ ] enough abuse and she packed
00:55:37
up the few stuff that she had and took
00:55:40
her son back to New Hampshire I'm so
00:55:41
happy that she was able to do that on
00:55:43
her own volition and later in letters
00:55:45
she claimed that in the decade that
00:55:47
followed her going to New Hampshire she
00:55:49
quote had known very little of her
00:55:51
husband wow they actually remained
00:55:54
married until he was executed oh [ __ ]
00:55:57
they never got divorced that's right he
00:56:00
never divorced her but married several
00:56:01
more times that's so crazy yeah he was a
00:56:04
piece of [ __ ] uh Upon returning to
00:56:07
Gilmanton Clara and Robert lived with um
00:56:10
actually Herman's parents for a little
00:56:11
bit until she was yeah how was that I
00:56:14
know until she was able to find work as
00:56:16
a dressmaker and she relocated herself
00:56:18
away
00:56:20
um and once she was away from you know
00:56:22
the budgets I was gonna say that
00:56:24
situation she focused only on Robert she
00:56:28
didn't think a [ __ ] thought about
00:56:30
what the [ __ ] Herman was doing she
00:56:31
didn't give a [ __ ]
00:56:33
um and actually Claire's cousin Laura
00:56:36
young said even after he deserted her
00:56:38
she never chased after him as many woman
00:56:40
would I think however that if Clara had
00:56:43
followed Herman after he left her
00:56:44
because that's the thing he had left her
00:56:47
to go away and kind of abandoned her
00:56:49
while he was in school and took all her
00:56:50
money and she just didn't left at the
00:56:53
end yeah she really got out of there but
00:56:55
she said I think however that if Clara
00:56:57
had followed Herman after he left her
00:56:59
and went West that we never would have
00:57:01
heard of her again I think that he would
00:57:03
have killed her as soon as she commenced
00:57:05
to to be in his way for she would have
00:57:07
never countenanced his action absolutely
00:57:10
because he was escalating by first he's
00:57:11
like talking [ __ ] about her then he
00:57:13
starts hitting her yeah and then he we
00:57:15
as we all know escalates to murder to
00:57:17
the nth degree he's cheating on her he's
00:57:19
just like a piece of [ __ ] yeah I I have
00:57:21
no doubt he was very lucky to be ridden
00:57:24
of that piece of dead weight so good for
00:57:26
her Clara lost like exactly 100 pounds
00:57:29
there you go well in Burlington you're
00:57:31
like I don't know how much he weighs but
00:57:33
however much he weighs that's how much
00:57:34
she lost she lost a few Stones exactly
00:57:36
while in Burlington Herman was a rigidly
00:57:40
devout student of chemistry obviously
00:57:42
like we said but in Michigan he now
00:57:44
shifted away from chemistry a little bit
00:57:47
and back to anatomy and he really liked
00:57:50
dissecting bodies I don't love that
00:57:53
um in fact one of the his fellow
00:57:55
students John Madden said quote he
00:57:57
seemed to take a good deal of pleasure
00:57:59
and The Uncanny things of the dissecting
00:58:01
room
00:58:03
that's what it I mean when you look at
00:58:05
it now hindsight is 20 20 and you're
00:58:07
like oh yeah that's [ __ ] up but like
00:58:08
yeah I don't know dissection is
00:58:11
interesting I can't really like say it's
00:58:13
not but the fact that he's a murderer
00:58:15
makes that weird I've never dissected
00:58:17
anything no it's definitely interesting
00:58:19
if you're doing it for the right purpose
00:58:21
yeah for like biology and [ __ ] yeah but
00:58:24
he also was quote that um John Madden
00:58:27
fellow student was quoted as saying
00:58:29
Holmes talked a great deal about what he
00:58:32
had done in the dissecting room with
00:58:33
what appeared to me at the time
00:58:35
unnecessary Gusto and told me that the
00:58:38
professor of anatomy at the time was to
00:58:40
permit him to take the body of an infant
00:58:42
home with him for dissection during the
00:58:44
spring vacation which was to begin the
00:58:46
following day I asked where he would
00:58:48
find a place to carry on his work
00:58:50
without offending his neighbors and he
00:58:52
replied with something to the fact that
00:58:53
he would find a place so see it happened
00:58:56
again where he asked to take home an
00:58:59
infant why is it an infant I don't know
00:59:01
but it's weird do you think I feel weird
00:59:04
saying this but do you think it's like
00:59:06
an infant is easy to carry home versus
00:59:08
an actual body I guess or I mean that
00:59:10
makes absolute logical sense like
00:59:13
logistically that does make sense yeah
00:59:15
but events are also very hard to dissect
00:59:17
I I would think like it's not an easy
00:59:20
evisceration or dissection for they're
00:59:23
they're tiny you know like it's all time
00:59:25
it's and it's upsetting yeah it's more
00:59:27
upsetting any human dissection has an
00:59:29
element of upset sadness to it but it's
00:59:32
like a baby is a whole different level
00:59:34
and I would think that you would want to
00:59:37
to learn on a full grown body because
00:59:40
you're gonna I would think learn more
00:59:41
except well there's just certain thing I
00:59:43
mean at least you would think he would
00:59:45
try it out I don't know though it's just
00:59:47
a strange
00:59:48
thing of strange Quirk yeah
00:59:52
um but all in all he was said to be a
00:59:54
pretty below average student which is
00:59:56
very interesting with all his extra work
00:59:58
and everything
00:59:59
I don't know maybe it's that he like he
01:00:02
wasn't staying focused on actually I
01:00:04
think that's exactly like taking the
01:00:06
right steps like he was going to to Z
01:00:08
when he should have been at F exactly I
01:00:10
think it was he was concentrating on
01:00:11
what he wanted out of it and not what he
01:00:14
needed to get out of it and a lot of
01:00:15
times you need like the foundations to
01:00:17
build upon and he's building with no
01:00:19
Foundation exactly I don't think he was
01:00:21
really focusing on the curriculum I
01:00:23
think he was just looking at what he
01:00:26
wanted which was chemistry so he could
01:00:28
patent a medication and he was looking
01:00:30
at Anatomy because I think he was
01:00:31
starting to feel some type of way and I
01:00:34
think he was only focusing on the things
01:00:35
that he wanted for different reasons and
01:00:38
not for a medical degree to become a
01:00:40
doctor to help people because does he
01:00:42
ever become a doctor he does oh he does
01:00:44
okay yeah
01:00:47
he graduates okay and he does like he
01:00:50
works as a doctor for a little bit oh
01:00:52
okay but he's really a fraudster yeah it
01:00:55
always
01:00:56
one teacher even voted against him
01:00:58
graduating so really he graduated by the
01:01:00
skin of his [ __ ] teeth [ __ ] he was
01:01:02
not good at medicine he was not he was
01:01:05
not very Adept at it and one student
01:01:07
described him hilariously
01:01:09
um as quote he was distinctly what might
01:01:12
be termed dumb he was slow to grasp
01:01:15
ideas and not ready at all in reasoning
01:01:17
okay which is funny to hear considering
01:01:20
he's an actual piece of [ __ ] yeah you're
01:01:22
dumb exactly um well and he like thinks
01:01:25
he's so [ __ ] oh he thinks he is the
01:01:27
gift uh this is huh also hilarious and
01:01:31
disgusting but another said he was below
01:01:33
mediocre another student also said that
01:01:36
he smelled strange and that he had a
01:01:39
nickname oh do you want to know what his
01:01:41
nickname was of course I want to know
01:01:43
his nickname was smegma
01:01:49
[Music]
01:01:52
please look that up if you don't know
01:01:54
what it is
01:01:56
just Google it and look at the first
01:01:58
definition that comes up and then we'll
01:02:01
look at the first definition that comes
01:02:02
up anyway give you an idea of what he
01:02:05
smelled like apparently why did you
01:02:07
smell like that
01:02:10
oh my God I can't even say that out loud
01:02:13
that's why I did it I'm just gonna
01:02:15
encourage you all my hands smell like
01:02:17
four skins
01:02:22
you know when you say a smell and then
01:02:24
you feel as though and this is what this
01:02:28
gave me joy because it's like the great
01:02:30
H.H Holmes the like Infamous like
01:02:34
criminal of the century was called
01:02:37
smegma that's by his peers in med school
01:02:40
so this little [ __ ] is nothing nothing
01:02:44
but a foreskin smelling below average
01:02:48
student who couldn't even keep his first
01:02:51
wife that's really [ __ ] gross yeah so
01:02:55
moving on from that now without Clara
01:02:57
supporting his stupid ass uh Herman was
01:03:00
forced to find his own [ __ ] job and
01:03:02
support himself while he finished the
01:03:04
degree I'm still really affected so he
01:03:06
now founded his own job with William
01:03:09
Herdman who was an anatomy instructor
01:03:12
with the university and he worked as his
01:03:14
assistant
01:03:15
he was responsible to like you know
01:03:18
menial things like tending to the horses
01:03:20
doing his errands but he also prepared
01:03:22
the bodies and assisted in the
01:03:24
dissecting room
01:03:26
um
01:03:27
at this point
01:03:28
maybe he had plans to uh murder and
01:03:32
defraud on like a galactic scale later
01:03:35
perhaps but I think it was more that
01:03:37
this was kind of the training along with
01:03:40
the whole chemistry Obsession this is
01:03:43
all the stuff that just kind of like
01:03:45
slowly put the pieces together for him
01:03:47
to become that later I don't know if he
01:03:49
had all that in mind quite yet I don't
01:03:51
think he really had the foresight
01:03:52
probably came over time
01:03:55
um but it was also at this time that he
01:03:57
claims he and his classmates first came
01:03:59
up with the idea of Faking a death and
01:04:02
then using a body as proof to defraud an
01:04:05
insurance company which became his thing
01:04:07
that's not good um also in 1884 Holmes
01:04:10
was uh in some serious trouble he had to
01:04:13
defend himself before the Medical
01:04:15
Faculty after being charged with breach
01:04:18
of Promise breach of Promise he got
01:04:20
himself a breach notice
01:04:22
to get because they're usually [ __ ]
01:04:25
uh usually
01:04:27
so he married this one I think was real
01:04:29
though so he married he's married to
01:04:31
Clara he's married to Clara hasn't
01:04:33
divorced her hasn't legally separated
01:04:35
from her in any way fantastic married
01:04:37
until he was executed remember that well
01:04:40
he's staying now at a boarding house and
01:04:41
the person who owns this house is a
01:04:43
widow who also was a hair stylist by the
01:04:46
name Mrs Fitch
01:04:48
she and him started a relationship they
01:04:51
started sleeping together girly he
01:04:52
smells like smegma and he made the
01:04:55
promise of marriage to her probably to
01:04:58
get her into bed and to get her money
01:05:00
that's definitely what it was to make
01:05:01
her sleep with him he was like I will
01:05:03
marry you of course I'll make you an
01:05:05
honest woman back in these days that's
01:05:07
[ __ ] serious that's serious business
01:05:09
you can't be married to someone else and
01:05:11
promise marriage to another just to get
01:05:13
them into bed that's not just like
01:05:15
distasteful and bad that's like can't
01:05:17
you like hang for that [ __ ] back then
01:05:19
it's a I mean I don't know if you can
01:05:20
hang for it but you're not gonna
01:05:21
graduate medical school that's for sure
01:05:23
it's adultery isn't it it's yeah yeah so
01:05:25
Mrs Fitch found a letter he was writing
01:05:28
to his actual wife Clara at the time who
01:05:31
he was still talking to and
01:05:33
corresponding with and kind of like
01:05:34
stringing along a bit oh and she ran to
01:05:37
the medical Factor faculty and was like
01:05:39
look at this look at this and then also
01:05:42
showed them a proposal letter he had
01:05:44
written to her like written down the
01:05:46
proposal signed it with his name well
01:05:48
she said this is breach of Promise he
01:05:51
promised me marriage and he's married to
01:05:53
another
01:05:53
and if found guilty he would not be
01:05:55
allowed to graduate medical school in
01:05:57
everything he had done would be for
01:05:59
[ __ ] not so how did this [ __ ] dance
01:06:01
his way around that so he denied it all
01:06:04
and his professor professor Herman who
01:06:07
he was assisting under her assistant he
01:06:10
came to his defense and he vouched for
01:06:12
him saying he thought he was truthful he
01:06:14
was like he's an upstanding guy I've
01:06:16
never had a problem with him I didn't
01:06:18
you know I don't believe that this is
01:06:20
real well Holmes got off on the charges
01:06:23
and poor Mrs Fitch was left to look like
01:06:25
a liar so he graduates he's able to
01:06:28
graduate on [ __ ] graduation day he
01:06:32
shakes Professor Herman's hand or excuse
01:06:34
me Professor um his name was not
01:06:36
Professor Hermann uh no not Herman it
01:06:39
was Herdman excuse me oh so I was close
01:06:41
it's like you heard with her you heard
01:06:43
man uh but if you heard but he shakes
01:06:46
Professor herdman's hand and says Doctor
01:06:48
those things are true that that woman
01:06:50
said about me
01:06:52
so he allowed this man to vouch for him
01:06:55
why then on the day of graduation was
01:06:57
like haha [ __ ] that's like that is
01:07:00
such a dick move because like shaking
01:07:02
his hand is one thing when you're a [ __ ]
01:07:04
when you lied to his [ __ ] face you're
01:07:06
shaking his hand and being like hey
01:07:07
[ __ ] you lied for me technically I
01:07:09
didn't even realize it wow that's [ __ ]
01:07:12
and Herdman later said that this was the
01:07:14
first moment that he realized that
01:07:16
Holmes was quote a scoundrel yeah and he
01:07:19
later find out found out that he was
01:07:20
more of a scoundrel because after this
01:07:22
he dug a little deeper and found out
01:07:24
that Herman Holmes there had burglarized
01:07:27
his home herdman's home yep and while
01:07:30
staying with him once in an extra
01:07:32
bedroom yep he had pried open a locked
01:07:35
drawer and he didn't see that what was
01:07:37
that guy's name the tree guy oh the tree
01:07:40
guy oh my God that episode man
01:07:43
uh was it Matthew Holmes homes oh my God
01:07:48
what the [ __ ] was it Matthew was it
01:07:52
Matthew Hall right now I feel like
01:07:54
potentially
01:07:56
my [ __ ] thumbs can't even go fast
01:07:58
enough if that's the same that's an
01:08:00
Australian actor hold on
01:08:02
thanks for letting me regret this like
01:08:05
what a piece of [ __ ] wow I'm trying to
01:08:07
like think of anybody that I can even
01:08:09
compare that to right it's just so dirty
01:08:11
it is such a dirty down and dirty now
01:08:13
Herman graduated from the University of
01:08:15
Michigan in the late spring of 1884 and
01:08:18
almost immediately he relocated to more
01:08:21
mowers Forks yeah girl you did that not
01:08:24
sure if I said that you did it's a tiny
01:08:27
hamlet in Upstate New York
01:08:28
um it had previously been um part of a
01:08:31
larger town of Champlain oh okay so once
01:08:34
there he opened a small tree nursery
01:08:37
uh yeah he got weird with it like
01:08:39
Matthew Hoffman did yeah he got a little
01:08:42
weird with it not as weird as Matthew
01:08:44
Hoffman did I will say
01:08:46
um because he just kind of abandoned it
01:08:48
a few months it wasn't profitable so he
01:08:50
just abandoned it okay but like what a
01:08:52
weird little direction to take
01:08:54
um and he does that to everything in his
01:08:56
life that doesn't serve him how he wants
01:08:58
it to he just abandons it good at one
01:09:00
point he hired a primary school teacher
01:09:02
named Minnie Everett for French lessons
01:09:06
um she terminated that relationship
01:09:08
pretty quickly because she said quote
01:09:10
and at the time she said this there is
01:09:12
something lurking in that man's
01:09:14
character that Time Will Reveal oh I do
01:09:16
not like him I firmly believe that he
01:09:19
would commit murder
01:09:21
wow Minnie like you were just here to
01:09:23
teach him French what made you think
01:09:25
he's gonna Revolt to murder and for her
01:09:27
to say that Time Will Reveal like it
01:09:28
hasn't happened yet but something's
01:09:30
thumbs in there I love that she was a
01:09:33
full-blown witch oh a full-blown woman
01:09:35
you can't tell me anything no Minnie
01:09:37
Everett she knew oh there's been people
01:09:39
that I've said that but not the murder
01:09:40
thing but like that's the best feeling
01:09:43
when you're like I [ __ ] knew you I
01:09:45
had your number the second I saw you you
01:09:47
have done that a couple of times that
01:09:48
that were like
01:09:49
chef's kiss perfect oh my gosh thank you
01:09:52
like enough first you're like no it's
01:09:53
fine and then later you're like what the
01:09:55
[ __ ] how did you know that yep sometimes
01:09:57
I just get a Vibe you just you didn't I
01:09:59
bet many was an empath she definitely
01:10:01
was anyway he also aggressively refused
01:10:04
to leave her alone after this for some
01:10:06
time so he was a stalker as well
01:10:07
fantastic uh yeah he's a little [ __ ]
01:10:09
but after this failure Holmes petitioned
01:10:12
The Local School trustees to hire him on
01:10:15
and he was put in charge of the primary
01:10:17
school like he was able to get a lot of
01:10:19
he's one of those that you're like how
01:10:20
were you able to get all these things
01:10:22
but it's oh it's he's a con man yeah and
01:10:24
he saved money doing this he was able to
01:10:26
save a lot of money and he opened his
01:10:28
own Medical Practice that's terrifying
01:10:30
uh during this early period in New York
01:10:32
he kind of perpetrated a small but kind
01:10:36
of big medical con it was his first one
01:10:39
um so a smallpox scare broke out in this
01:10:41
town and people were urging residents to
01:10:44
get vaccinated against smallpox
01:10:46
and he saw this as an opportunity so he
01:10:50
somehow got his hands probably by
01:10:52
stealing on a load of vaccines and he
01:10:56
loaded up a wagon and he went door to
01:10:58
door through the northern part of the
01:11:00
state vaccinate vaccinizing vaccinating
01:11:03
residents and telling him that it was
01:11:05
mandatory oh and he was quote
01:11:08
representing himself as an authorized
01:11:11
official of the Board of Health he made
01:11:13
the people think that it was compulsory
01:11:14
and in every household he managed to get
01:11:17
several cases for which he charged 25
01:11:19
cents each
01:11:21
so at the time no one questioned his
01:11:24
authority or asked to see his
01:11:25
credentials they just allowed it if this
01:11:27
man's is trying to poke you with a
01:11:29
needle yeah you've got to ask for a cred
01:11:32
that's for anything ask his name as for
01:11:35
his library card and literally anything
01:11:37
priced on a cracker everybody he made a
01:11:39
lot of money doing it though but and
01:11:41
obviously people must have been
01:11:42
terrified so they probably were like
01:11:43
just vaccinate me but that's what that's
01:11:45
what he felt he prayed on he loved
01:11:47
praying on that kind of [ __ ] wow so that
01:11:49
was his first medical con can you
01:11:51
imagine a big if that should still
01:11:53
happen today like knock knock I'm sure
01:11:55
to vaccinate you and no I don't have any
01:11:57
ideas don't ask me about it please leave
01:12:00
like no I'd love your credit credentials
01:12:02
thank you but back in his medical office
01:12:04
he started setting up a laboratory
01:12:07
because he was really trying to get that
01:12:09
patented medicine he was gonna get rich
01:12:11
from it and to help him with this he was
01:12:15
said to have brought in to stay with him
01:12:17
for a while his six-year-old son Robert
01:12:19
no no no no no and he quote and put him
01:12:22
to work in the laboratory putting up in
01:12:24
putting up in bottles the liquid which
01:12:26
Hermann manufactured although he never
01:12:28
sold any of these things that he made
01:12:30
like he just couldn't get the right
01:12:32
concoction together sure he definitely
01:12:35
tried
01:12:36
um but he also couldn't convince anybody
01:12:38
to try any of his cares because people
01:12:39
didn't trust him I mean they were like
01:12:41
many came to teach him French and she
01:12:43
was like You're a murderer yeah like
01:12:44
You're a murderer Minnie knows but
01:12:48
what's weird about him is he's somewhat
01:12:51
out of an anomaly in the sense that he
01:12:53
was a get rich quick guy and he was a
01:12:55
con man but he also didn't shy away from
01:12:59
hard work like he would work
01:13:04
yeah like he's very strange in that way
01:13:07
like he doesn't have that like like cut
01:13:09
and dry get rich quick personality right
01:13:12
it's it's strange but it should be said
01:13:15
that well he claimed the boy in his
01:13:17
company was his son
01:13:19
there is a lot of speculation that this
01:13:22
was a completely unrelated boy who
01:13:24
disappeared a little while after this oh
01:13:27
no according to the New York's top New
01:13:29
York Times there was a report filed
01:13:31
shortly after he was arrested like way
01:13:33
later
01:13:35
um and it said that after he left his
01:13:37
teaching position in New York that he
01:13:40
had quote went home went to
01:13:42
Massachusetts
01:13:43
hey yo but returned in a short time
01:13:46
accompanied by a small boy who
01:13:48
disappeared shortly after his arrival
01:13:50
Holmes saying he had gone home it
01:13:53
doesn't appear that any investigation
01:13:55
went into this boy's Identity or
01:13:58
disappearance and nobody really went
01:14:01
further into it but if this boy has what
01:14:05
like was part of something nefarious
01:14:07
then he was his first victim holy [ __ ]
01:14:11
and they were never able to confirm
01:14:13
whether that was Robert or not
01:14:15
and you would think it would be as easy
01:14:16
as like somebody reaching out to Clara
01:14:18
yeah and it's like I don't I think this
01:14:20
might have been a boy that he took wow
01:14:22
and used until he didn't eat anymore
01:14:25
I hope not I hope it was Robert and that
01:14:27
he just went to Massachusetts I hope so
01:14:29
too like that's honestly
01:14:31
I'm hoping that but I don't know I can't
01:14:34
be sure because he's such a piece of
01:14:36
[ __ ] right it was also in New York that
01:14:39
there were rumors about his
01:14:41
um inappropriate behavior with women
01:14:45
um an inappropriate like he was a pig
01:14:48
and on several occasions he was known to
01:14:51
have treated out of town women for
01:14:53
what's only referred to as organic
01:14:55
trouble in his office what is organic
01:14:58
not sure and there were rumors that they
01:15:00
were all like that these women were
01:15:03
treated and then disappeared because
01:15:05
they were from a house of ill repute oh
01:15:07
you know so they were treated as less
01:15:09
dead yeah but there was never any
01:15:11
confirmation of this no identities that
01:15:13
we can like hang our hats on but
01:15:16
definitely happened it probably happened
01:15:18
and there were reports of Herman Payne
01:15:20
quote violent attention to a young woman
01:15:23
named Alan what who eventually left town
01:15:27
and was never heard from again oh
01:15:29
hopefully she actually did leave town
01:15:31
yeah and actually there were rumors
01:15:33
around this New York town that Holmes
01:15:35
had actually married her but they said
01:15:37
that like there was rumors that he had
01:15:39
married her but then there was rumors
01:15:41
that she left town but the ones that
01:15:43
everybody kind of sits on is that she
01:15:45
probably met a Sinister end at his hands
01:15:48
it kind of sounds that and they just
01:15:49
couldn't prove it and especially she was
01:15:51
never found again yeah like that's
01:15:54
definitely he did something especially
01:15:56
if he had already killed that boy yeah
01:15:58
something happened here right there's
01:16:01
that's what I mean when I say there's
01:16:02
definitely more over the ones he
01:16:04
confessed to and are confirmed right and
01:16:06
I think a lot of people think that now
01:16:08
despite
01:16:10
honestly referring to him as a hard
01:16:12
worker and a generally like fine man
01:16:15
aside from his like preoccupation with
01:16:17
like out of town women and being a
01:16:19
little weird
01:16:20
um residents found something just
01:16:23
off-putting about him right like people
01:16:25
around him were like
01:16:27
he was never like mean outwardly to
01:16:29
people who he didn't do like you know he
01:16:31
was a little weird but like not like
01:16:33
super stranger eccentric like there was
01:16:35
just something about his like Minnie
01:16:37
said there was just something that was
01:16:38
going to be revealed but you just didn't
01:16:40
know what was and women in the village
01:16:43
begin sharing stories of his you know
01:16:46
unwanted advances and the men began
01:16:49
noticing a growing trend of homes
01:16:51
ignoring deaths and making false
01:16:53
promises to pay for things and but he
01:16:56
always had an excuse of course you
01:16:58
always had an excuse so he was a woman
01:17:01
he was getting the reputation of being a
01:17:02
pig men he's getting the reputation of
01:17:04
being a [ __ ] deadbeat so on one
01:17:07
occasion his landlord confronted him and
01:17:10
was like Hey you haven't paid your rent
01:17:12
and I've tried to get you to pay your
01:17:14
rent for like [ __ ] months oh [ __ ] and
01:17:17
he said it was and he had come forward
01:17:19
to him when he knew he had plenty of
01:17:21
money he was like the dog he's a doctor
01:17:23
like I know he has money and he said
01:17:25
quote the doctor would stand quietly by
01:17:27
and hear himself called a scoundrel and
01:17:30
a swindler in the strongest terms then
01:17:32
the tears would appear in the doctor's
01:17:34
eyes and trickle down his cheeks but he
01:17:36
never said a word in reply
01:17:38
so he would just sit there and let
01:17:40
people be like you're a [ __ ]
01:17:41
scoundrel you're a swindler you're a
01:17:44
piece of [ __ ] like you're just like
01:17:46
you're a dead people and he would just
01:17:48
sit there and cry
01:17:50
and never say anything
01:17:51
that's very strange right and also like
01:17:55
sad but like I don't want to feel sad no
01:17:58
he's no because I think it's fake it's
01:18:00
fake as [ __ ] those tears are crocodile
01:18:03
tears my friend he would cry because he
01:18:06
knew it was going to disarm anybody
01:18:07
around him to see this Mustachio
01:18:10
gentleman weeping openly after being
01:18:13
called a scoundrel after refusing to pay
01:18:15
for things he should have [ __ ] paid
01:18:16
for well I think he's especially a
01:18:18
physician yeah they were probably like
01:18:19
what is happening right now back then
01:18:21
they're like a man crying what so
01:18:24
strange I think only did it just to
01:18:25
disarm everybody and probably he was
01:18:27
just hinged I feel yeah he's [ __ ]
01:18:30
monster but he took similar approaches
01:18:33
with his medical office landlord because
01:18:35
he always had an excuse for not paying
01:18:37
and then he would make empty promises to
01:18:40
pay and then he would just cry when he
01:18:42
was confronted or he would go into a
01:18:44
rage sometimes when he was confronted
01:18:46
and they would just be like forget it
01:18:47
well I was going to say that some people
01:18:48
cry when they're mad and it could be
01:18:50
that he was just trying to like keep it
01:18:51
together but he was crying right
01:18:53
um and at one point he produced a letter
01:18:56
that supposedly was sent from someone in
01:18:58
Gilmanton where he was from claiming his
01:19:01
uncle had died and left him a
01:19:02
substantial inheritance which he said oh
01:19:05
see I'll be able to pay you yeah you
01:19:07
just have to open the email attachment
01:19:09
yeah just look at this yeah open that
01:19:11
email attachment it's definitely not a
01:19:12
scam your Royal uncle has passed it
01:19:14
exactly so Herman's reputation in this
01:19:17
New York village continued to decline
01:19:19
towards the end of his residency in the
01:19:21
village and not long before leaving he
01:19:24
was involved in a scheme that was to
01:19:27
avoid paying his debts that definitely
01:19:29
will give you a little bit of a
01:19:32
foreshadow into his later crimes
01:19:34
according to the Daily Boston Globe
01:19:36
there was an older Soldier a veteran
01:19:39
living in town who had for several
01:19:41
months been dealing with like an unknown
01:19:44
illness it was like a shuddering cough a
01:19:46
lot of pain and the doctors kept trying
01:19:48
to tell him it was malaria but this
01:19:51
Soldier said no that's not it he refused
01:19:53
to believe this diagnosis and he
01:19:55
believed that it was being caused by an
01:19:58
injury he had received during the war he
01:20:00
said he'd gotten shot there was a bullet
01:20:02
lodged in his lungs in his like the area
01:20:04
of his ribs and he said it's pressing
01:20:07
his ribs against my lungs and it's
01:20:09
making it hard for me to breathe I know
01:20:11
that's what it is oh but ultimately he
01:20:13
was dying so it really didn't matter to
01:20:16
him personally what was going on but if
01:20:19
the injury was the result of him serving
01:20:21
in the war in the military his widow
01:20:23
when he passed away was going to be
01:20:25
granted his full pension so he wanted to
01:20:28
make sure which I'm like I'm like
01:20:30
I know and this poor man is like I want
01:20:33
my wife and my family to get all of that
01:20:35
money yeah so I need to make sure that
01:20:37
I'm diagnosed before I die correctly
01:20:39
like he was doing this only for them
01:20:42
I'm like what a good man also what a
01:20:44
[ __ ] like I know future to face so
01:20:47
for that reason he asked um Herman's
01:20:50
landlord Edward Steele to be present for
01:20:53
his autopsy which I'm like oh my God
01:20:55
yeah imagine having to ask that no but
01:20:58
this but Edward Steele couldn't come to
01:21:00
the autopsy so it was conducted without
01:21:03
him there and again his cause of death
01:21:05
was labeled as malaria so Edward Steele
01:21:09
felt horrible and he was desperate to
01:21:11
make sure this Widow got the full
01:21:13
pension so he asked Herman to do a
01:21:17
second autopsy with him to help him and
01:21:20
he was like of course I will I love
01:21:21
dissection so when he so steals like
01:21:25
okay you finish it you tell me what you
01:21:27
think I want to see what you have to say
01:21:29
about this so we asked them for the
01:21:30
results at the end of it and Herman
01:21:32
looks at him and says yeah I have
01:21:34
evidence
01:21:35
but only I'll only give it to you
01:21:39
so he's already extorting him yep if
01:21:42
that my rent is paid in full
01:21:46
we like I'll only do my job if you pay
01:21:49
my rent like you're asking me to help
01:21:51
out of the goodness of my heart which I
01:21:54
don't know this Widow to make sure he
01:21:56
had this man's dying wish your I have
01:21:59
evidence that could help this but I want
01:22:01
you can give it to you if you say that
01:22:03
my rent is paid in full what a [ __ ]
01:22:06
jackass and he said if you don't do that
01:22:08
I'm Gonna Keep the evidence of the
01:22:10
autopsy and the Widow won't get the full
01:22:12
pension and I don't give a [ __ ] oh my
01:22:15
God and the evidence he had he had the
01:22:18
actual ribs he had evidence that they
01:22:21
were pressing against them correct wow
01:22:24
he kept those broken ribs because Edward
01:22:27
Steele looked at him and was like go
01:22:29
[ __ ] yourself yeah you I'll figure out
01:22:31
another way to get her her pension and
01:22:34
you know what he did thank you he got
01:22:36
that Widow his pension and Holmes Herman
01:22:39
there Herman [ __ ] budget
01:22:41
he kept those two broken ribs what a
01:22:44
[ __ ] no one knows what he did with them
01:22:47
but he kept those [ __ ] ribs he never
01:22:49
gave them over crazy person like what
01:22:52
that's so weird like what yeah
01:22:55
so shortly after he had done this you
01:22:58
know extorted false evidence for payment
01:23:00
of his rent yeah he tried to leave this
01:23:03
Village without saying anything to
01:23:06
anyone or paying any of his debts he was
01:23:08
just gonna leave all of it behind and
01:23:11
although his landlord literally found
01:23:13
him loading the wagon and being like hi
01:23:16
you still owe me all this money he
01:23:19
couldn't really stop him like he just
01:23:21
the last anyone heard from him from this
01:23:23
Village was a letter sent from Tilton
01:23:26
New Hampshire saying he had business to
01:23:28
attend in New Hampshire and he would be
01:23:30
in touch to settle his deaths at a
01:23:31
future date doubt it ding ding ding he
01:23:34
never did
01:23:35
now after leaving Holmes returned to New
01:23:38
Hampshire briefly and just tried to take
01:23:40
full custody of Robert
01:23:43
yeah wow why not no you know I haven't
01:23:47
been part of his life for six years but
01:23:49
why not no uh and again Claire and he
01:23:52
were technically still married so he
01:23:53
never actually lost custody of him right
01:23:55
he just abandoned them
01:23:57
um it's unclear what actually happened
01:23:59
here but Clara ended up taking their son
01:24:02
to her father's house and he left the
01:24:04
state so like she was like no good track
01:24:07
she's like you're a murderous piece of
01:24:09
[ __ ] no you can't have our son but he
01:24:11
definitely tried to and without a job
01:24:13
now or any source of income he said um
01:24:17
quote starvation was staring me in the
01:24:19
face I doubt it and he sold his horses
01:24:22
in Tilton and he boarded a train for
01:24:24
Pennsylvania and when he left New
01:24:26
Hampshire for the last time he wanted to
01:24:28
leave behind everything meaning he
01:24:31
wanted to leave behind Hermann Webster
01:24:33
budget oh he was now going to be known
01:24:36
formally as Dr Henry Howard Holmes
01:24:40
HH home do you have any idea how he came
01:24:42
up with that name I do not he just
01:24:45
wanted HHH yeah sounds like H.H Holmes
01:24:47
is a I don't know how I mean I think he
01:24:50
just made it he thought it sounded good
01:24:51
there's all kinds of speculation that he
01:24:53
used uh Sherlock Holmes as his uh
01:24:55
inspiration but that wasn't published
01:24:57
until a year after oh so
01:24:59
Preston incorrect so I think it was just
01:25:02
it was a name he came up with I guess
01:25:04
okay unfortunately a good one uh so he
01:25:07
homes now arrived in Norristown
01:25:10
Pennsylvania which is a town just
01:25:12
outside of Philadelphia in the fall of
01:25:14
1885 and he found the city uh wasn't as
01:25:18
bumpin as he thought it was gonna be a
01:25:22
lot fewer opportunities than he was
01:25:23
expecting
01:25:25
wow this place is bumping
01:25:28
wow guys this place is so bumping
01:25:34
oh
01:25:35
secret bump I suppose
01:25:39
but that was great a lot isn't really
01:25:42
known about this time period
01:25:44
um there is some evidence that suggests
01:25:46
that just days after having arrived he
01:25:49
walked into the police precinct and told
01:25:51
officers there that he was quote on the
01:25:54
verge of starvation and had come here
01:25:56
with the express intentions of
01:25:58
committing suicide that's a quote
01:26:02
um I don't know if that actually
01:26:03
happened that is a report police
01:26:06
officers did say that happened so who
01:26:09
knows what that was about
01:26:11
um they took pity on him and they let
01:26:13
him stay in the station while they tried
01:26:15
to find him some work and they ended up
01:26:17
finding him work in the Norristown State
01:26:19
Hospital which was a state-funded
01:26:21
psychiatric hospital a few miles from
01:26:24
Philadelphia so I thought that would
01:26:26
never happen today well that's here's
01:26:27
the thing as he either because it's not
01:26:30
clear if that particular part happened
01:26:32
yeah there's some stories like that that
01:26:34
I don't know if that was later concocted
01:26:36
by him to
01:26:38
um gain some sympathy right but he did
01:26:41
get a job working at this Hospital you
01:26:43
just don't know how yeah this is the
01:26:45
story he tells uh like I wouldn't
01:26:49
believe [ __ ] that comes out of here yeah
01:26:50
I don't know if I buy that like that
01:26:53
such pity on you you poor lad but no
01:26:56
matter what he did get work at the
01:26:57
Norristown state hospital
01:26:59
um and years later in his autobiography
01:27:01
Holmes said that it was a very troubling
01:27:04
experience for him he said quote so
01:27:06
terrible was it that for years
01:27:07
afterwards even now sometimes I see
01:27:10
their faces in my sleep good the
01:27:12
patients at this psychiatric hospital
01:27:14
I'm glad he was haunted now after just a
01:27:16
few months in Norristown he actually
01:27:18
abandoned that job at the state hospital
01:27:19
because that's what he does and found a
01:27:22
new position at a pharmacy in
01:27:23
Philadelphia which is much more his
01:27:25
speed as would become his Mo this job
01:27:28
also didn't last long and there was some
01:27:31
mysterious [ __ ] that happened before he
01:27:32
left it right bro he abandoned the job
01:27:34
and Philadelphia completely after a
01:27:37
local boy died after taking some
01:27:40
medicine purchased from Homes at the
01:27:42
pharmacy oh he claimed he had nothing to
01:27:46
do with the medicine nothing to do with
01:27:47
the boy's death but it definitely put a
01:27:50
black mark on his already questionable
01:27:52
reputation and there really wasn't a
01:27:55
future hint for him in Philadelphia
01:27:56
after this because people were like no
01:27:58
thank you yeah like we're all set yeah
01:28:00
I'm doing an X sign with my fingers just
01:28:02
so you know everyone went no thank you
01:28:04
get away from us so this is when the
01:28:07
idea of Faking a death and using a
01:28:09
substitute dead body to defraud
01:28:11
insurance came back around they had
01:28:13
talked about it a little in college it's
01:28:15
coming back and Holmes now is ready to
01:28:17
do it okay because now he's like I've
01:28:19
tried this working thing for a minute or
01:28:22
two too hard and it's hard so let's just
01:28:25
scam insurance money please now Aqua
01:28:28
money so according to him he apparently
01:28:31
contacted an old college friend which
01:28:34
imagine how hard that was back in the
01:28:36
day yeah you had to really want to
01:28:38
contact someone I think that all the
01:28:40
time when I'm driving and I have my GPS
01:28:42
on I'm like how the [ __ ] would I ever
01:28:44
get anywhere yeah I wouldn't know where
01:28:45
anything like how do people do that how
01:28:46
do you do it Maps
01:28:52
either way he was also his friend was in
01:28:55
Dire Straits financially as well and
01:28:57
they decided that they would get one
01:28:59
more friend involved and this other
01:29:01
friend was going to be the one to
01:29:02
increase his life insurance to forty
01:29:04
thousand dollars at the time and he
01:29:06
would do this by telling the insurance
01:29:08
company that he dealt with some kind of
01:29:10
life-altering experience that made him
01:29:12
concerned for his family's well-being so
01:29:13
he wanted to opt the amount I feel like
01:29:15
you might need to get a little more
01:29:16
specific than that I guess back that
01:29:18
insurance was just like sure thing buddy
01:29:19
yeah now he would then later this man
01:29:22
the plan was to send his wife and child
01:29:24
Somewhere Out West near California and
01:29:27
he was going to fake confess via letter
01:29:29
that he had killed them both in some
01:29:31
kind of alcohol-induced frenzy an ad
01:29:34
that he had dismembered and pickled
01:29:35
their bodies Christ I figured that was
01:29:37
to make sure he didn't have to show
01:29:39
bodies to insurance but like that's not
01:29:41
the case which is weird and then he was
01:29:44
going to have claimed to have killed
01:29:45
himself in the note this friend okay
01:29:47
then the money would go to a quote
01:29:49
unquote relative of this man wink wink
01:29:52
nudge nudge his friends and he would
01:29:54
move out to where his very much alive
01:29:56
wife and kid were live with some of the
01:29:58
money that was shelled out to him it was
01:30:00
going to be between the three of them
01:30:02
you know live in obscurity that's
01:30:04
something I've never thought of like if
01:30:07
you murder your family and You're a
01:30:09
murderer who gets your life insurance
01:30:10
payout like will like do you get a
01:30:13
payout if you've murdered somebody no I
01:30:15
don't think you get it if you were like
01:30:17
but no but like the person so like if
01:30:19
you have murdered and then yeah killed
01:30:21
yourself whoever is in your policy gets
01:30:24
that exactly
01:30:27
I know it is weird right and that's what
01:30:30
that's what they banked on was like they
01:30:32
could control who he wrote down in his
01:30:34
policy right now me thinking the
01:30:36
dismemberment detail was to make sure he
01:30:38
didn't have to show bodies apparently
01:30:40
that wasn't right they had to show
01:30:42
bodies regardless three bodies which
01:30:45
meant they were gonna have to procure
01:30:47
three imposter dead bodies including a
01:30:49
child and put them in a pickle jar and
01:30:51
like I was like you would have to
01:30:53
dismember them yeah that's a lot so he
01:30:56
went to minneana so at this time so this
01:30:58
is what they wanted to do
01:31:00
plan the whole thing out so Holmes had
01:31:03
went to Minneapolis and Chicago during
01:31:06
this time
01:31:07
I don't know I said Minneapolis
01:31:08
Minneapolis you know that's what I meant
01:31:10
I was gonna let it go and then I was
01:31:12
thinking the world you know I was glad
01:31:14
you correct thank you because that's I
01:31:15
rolled over and I said Ah that's not a
01:31:17
big deal then I said yep that's a big
01:31:18
deal then I went back mini apples is
01:31:21
what I meant in Chicago during this time
01:31:23
and he was able to get a job as a drug
01:31:25
clerk in a pharmacy and according to him
01:31:28
he was able to procure bodies pretty
01:31:30
easily by buying them from med school
01:31:32
Anatomy rooms at the time because now he
01:31:34
had money Mr Burke Mr head exactly now
01:31:37
also that was just very easy to do back
01:31:39
then so that would be well know he got
01:31:41
two bodies okay he was able to buy two
01:31:43
bodies probably adult ones I assume and
01:31:46
put them into barrels which he stored in
01:31:48
a room at the McCoy Hotel in Chicago
01:31:50
damn but apparently after hearing or
01:31:53
reading about how well insurance
01:31:54
companies checked into cases like this
01:31:56
and would like require a lot of uh
01:31:58
evidence and proof right he decided they
01:32:01
should abandon the whole idea
01:32:03
now he had two bodies now yeah so
01:32:08
this is when he says okay well that's I
01:32:10
just said like oh no and I just buried
01:32:12
those bodies in my basement like not a
01:32:13
big deal this story people believe was
01:32:16
possibly concocted and changed a bit to
01:32:19
help him explain why there were a lot of
01:32:21
bones found buried in his Chicago place
01:32:24
oh good he they were probably the result
01:32:27
of something even more Sinister just
01:32:30
what we don't know but he wanted to make
01:32:32
it look like well I purchased bodies
01:32:33
legally and I just buried them down
01:32:36
there because we decided not to go ahead
01:32:37
with the scheme like don't [ __ ] put
01:32:39
those on me buddy and it's like I know I
01:32:41
think you killed those people like
01:32:42
there's a lot to unpack here that's the
01:32:44
thing like he'll he comes out with
01:32:45
things and it's like legal right I did
01:32:48
illegally and it's like no I think you
01:32:49
killed them and I think you're so good
01:32:51
at lying that's the only thing you are
01:32:53
good at is you're making this story up
01:32:56
so that we don't question those bones in
01:32:58
the basement but in reality if they had
01:33:00
questioned those bones in the basement
01:33:02
which they didn't in time to identify
01:33:04
them or figure something out we probably
01:33:06
would have figured out that those were
01:33:07
missing people probably hundo P
01:33:09
guarantee you damn so he leaves
01:33:12
Philadelphia in the spring of 1886 after
01:33:14
are definitely murdering people and he
01:33:17
eventually settled in Inglewood a
01:33:19
Suburban neighborhood on the south side
01:33:20
of Chicago and this is where [ __ ] really
01:33:24
starts to get wild and it's where you're
01:33:27
gonna it is
01:33:32
because the Chicago Chronicles are
01:33:35
really where it's a whole new era are
01:33:38
the Chicago Chronicles bumpin they're uh
01:33:41
they're bumping in some way not in a
01:33:43
good one
01:33:45
I sure did that was something you know
01:33:47
the Bumpits are coming back that's
01:33:50
upsetting yeah
01:33:52
that's an upsetting episode that's it
01:33:55
bye just kidding uh but yeah stay tuned
01:33:57
for part two and um
01:33:59
he gets worse and worse so fantastic
01:34:02
yeah happy anniversary to us yay five
01:34:05
years woohoo thanks guys we love you and
01:34:08
we hope you keep listening and we hope
01:34:09
you keep it weird but that's weird that
01:34:12
this entire time every single time Elena
01:34:14
has said something about him writing his
01:34:15
own autobiography all you can think of
01:34:16
is Ashley Simpson singing autobiography
01:34:18
while Henry Holmes or is that his name
01:34:20
Henry yeah well he writes his
01:34:22
autobiography and he's like
01:34:24
that's all I've been thinking bye
01:34:29
[Music]
01:34:31
come on
01:34:33
[Music]