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Hey weirdos. I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid. This is Morbid. It's a podcast that you
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listen to to hear scary, cautionary, horrifying, chilling, paranormal tales that are sometimes uh motivational.
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Yeah. And Twilightified. >> Oh, yeah. Get ready for that, babes. >> It's coming up quick, actually.
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>> Get ready. >> Yeah. I can't wait. I'm going to reread New Moon. Oh, [ __ ] I got to reread. I
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got to order it. >> Yeah, I have it. I just got to dig it I'm so jealous of you having your
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original copies. >> Oh, yeah. >> I got shuffled around so much. I like it just didn't work out.
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>> I know. I was lucky. I only really had to go from one house to >> That's actually so wild.
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>> Like you moved from mom papa's to one apartment and then like with John. >> Yeah, I was just with John after that.
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>> That's cuckoo nuts. >> One of your kids asked me how many times I moved the other day and I was like,
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"Babe, I don't have time to count right now." >> I feel like it's a lot. >> I have no time to count right now.
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>> There's a lot here. >> Yeah. Um, I'm just I feel like I'm like still recovering from New York. Like in
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a good way. I had so much fun. >> I always recover from any kind of travel. >> Yeah, same. You hit a certain age and
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you're just like, whoa. >> I'm always thrown off by it. >> I forgot to mention when we were talking
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about it though, me and Drew saw Death Becomes Her. If anybody has a chance to go see that show, go see it. Mikey had
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seen it before me and he was like, "You got to go." And it's like one of my favorite movies, so I was like, "Oh
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yeah, like I'll definitely go." >> I wasn't I'm not like a huge musical person usually. I'm going to fight you.
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>> I know. Just kidding. Somebody um >> It was the most incredible thing I've ever seen in my life, I think.
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>> Yeah, I've heard nothing but good things. >> It was so much fun. Uh we got to say see
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Michelle Williams. >> Holy [ __ ] >> Which was like next level. I thought John was very impressed by that.
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>> Drew thought that was the funniest thing in the world cuz we met up with you guys
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later and uh Drew was like telling John about it and John was like, "Oh my god, that's so cool." And then that night,
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Drew was like, "John like cares about Michelle Williams." And I was like, "Yeah." I was like, "John's a big '9s
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guy. >> He's a big R&B guy." >> It was so funny. >> Yeah, it was a great show. So, if you
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guys have a chance to see it and I met a couple listeners there. >> Oh, I love that.
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>> And they were so nice. >> What a nice place to meet people. >> I know. It really was.
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>> I love when it's like a good vibe like that. >> Mhm. Oh, yeah. The vibes were
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impeccable. >> Oh, yeah. >> Top notch. >> Topnotch. And speaking of things that you should watch, um, this week for
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Scream, I'm or whatever week it is for Scream, I'm covering, uh, GMO Del Toro's Frankenstein, which you can watch on
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Netflix. >> It, >> guys, >> incredible. Blew my [ __ ] mind apart. I mean, I'm a I love GMO.
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>> You're g Pan's Labyrinth is one of my favorite movies. I think Gummo, his Cabinet of Curiosities, by the way, on
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Netflix is also awesome. So, go watch that. >> Oh, I remember I told you about that.
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>> It's very cool. And uh GMO's the best. I literally am obsessed with everything he
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does. I think he's brilliant. I think he is like a special flower that I hope just stays around forever.
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>> He has a rain room, right? >> Oh, he's the His house is iconic. Iconic. >> He's like [ __ ] in there. He's an artist
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>> and everything whenever he opens his mouth and talks, listen cuz he's saying brilliant [ __ ] It's like that that show
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um from the Princess Diary. Shut up and listen. >> Shut up and listen. And his take on
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Frankenstein. >> Now, it was next level. >> It had me crying. >> I cried. >> It had me I I after I finished watching
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it cuz John was cuz he's just the best. John was literally wrapping Christmas presents and I was like I have to watch
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this for Scream. So like do you mind? >> I'm working. >> And he was like you know what he was
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like let me wrap these gifts and I'm going to wrap some of yours. I'm like I'll do this. And he's like I do want to
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watch it later but like I'll let you do this cuz you're I watch it. We have to pause a lot and all that.
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>> Afterwards I was like John we need to watch this immediately together because
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that was the most beautiful thing I have ever seen. >> No it really is. >> Jacob Allerty I and here's the thing.
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Jacob Allerty is a very good-looking man. like he is very attractive >> and don't you forget it.
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>> But he's it's not like I'm not like losing my mind like that. You know, >> I'd like you to go now.
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>> And like I will acknowledge I'm never going to say that that is not a handsome
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man. >> You must. But like just you know Yeah. >> Well, he's I think he's like 27 so it's
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it's okay for you to not be like losing your [ __ ] >> Like >> not that it would be weird if you did,
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but like just to make you feel better. >> Thank you. I appreciate it. >> Because here's the thing. No, I'm I'm
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actually really glad that you're being so brave right now. >> I'm being brave >> and I'm going to be brave afterwards.
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>> Why did I love him as Frankenstein? >> Why was I literally attracted to like I
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find I loved Euphoria. I found him to be so attractive. >> Form you love. >> I love his human form. And then as I was
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watching I I'm not even going to lie to you. I have to be I'm going to be so brave right now.
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>> Be brave. >> I I didn't really want to watch it. I was like, "Okay, I'm sure this will be
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like like whatever." It was incredible. And as I was watching it, I just got like more and more enthralled and I was
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like, "I think I would spend the rest of my life with that monster." >> 100%. Like I
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>> He absolutely shattered that role. >> That movie better. When I was finished with it, I literally said cuz I told
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Drew, I was like, "I got to watch this for Scream." I'm like, you know, >> and then he was like I at the end of it
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I go, "That was one of the most beautiful movies I've ever seen." And he was laughing so hard. He's like, "You
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didn't even want to watch it." >> Yeah. It shows you though like >> give it a give things a chance.
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>> Give it a chance because like that's not usually something I would just click to
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like for leisure. I'm going to watch it again. >> It was >> I mean I'm telling like GMO the way he
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does like GMO. I'm saying it like he's my friend GMO someday. >> Someday I'm going to meet GMO and just
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tell him that he's a brilliant special. >> Yeah. fairy creature and I love him. >> Manifest it.
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>> Um I will and I'm pretty good at manifesting. >> You're so good at manifesting. That's
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why I'm telling you here. >> Uh but he it's something about cuz I think we've talked about this before
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that like certain TV shows or movies >> if the color palette is off for me, I'm out. Like I immediately am out.
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>> And I have a very particular color palette that will just send me into orbit like in a good way.
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>> I was never really aware of color palettes until you like shattered that for me. Now I think about it
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>> well and I'm very particular about the one that I love and so I when I come across that GMO always gives me that one
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I love labyrinth >> deep tones like >> also just the fashion like all of Mia Goth's outfits were
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>> where do I get where do I purchase >> everything is beautiful the monster the
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way he put him together is beautiful >> it's so cool >> like everything was be so like this is
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all to say go Watch that if you haven't watched it yet. It's >> when he gives her the leaf.
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>> Oh, shattered my soul. >> Like I wouldn't I wouldn't look at a million dollars the same way I would
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look at that leaf from that monster. >> I was going to [ __ ] up Victor Frankenstein
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>> when he just kept go like Well, you got to go listen to Scream, of course, cuz
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we're basically just doing it right now. >> Give me your leg. Your leg. I was like,
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I was like, I'll punch you in the goddamn face. At one point, John walked by like to go into the kitchen and I had
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it paused and I just looked at him and I go, "Fuck Victor Frankenstein. Am I right?" And he was like, "Hell yeah."
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>> Like he had no idea what I was like, "Yep, >> that's a husband." >> He said, "Support. Let's kill him." And
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I was like, "Yeah, just wait, buddy. Just wait. >> It's a great movie, though. I'm highly
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recommending it." >> Yeah. It's got to win like every award in my opinion. >> It really does. It really does.
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>> Go listen to our episode on Scream. If you don't listen to Scream, we cover horror movies and just like like
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thrillers, anything spooky, creepy, >> and Caleb's there >> and we do it with Caleb who's just the
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[ __ ] tits. >> He's just a delight. >> So, go check out Scream. Um, I think that's like all the banter we have
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today. >> That's and then now we're going to we're going to dive. >> I'm about to rock your [ __ ]
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>> Yeah, we're going to dive into the depths right now. >> Yeah, I actually got to watch
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Frankenstein after I covered this, like after I finished writing this. So, I was
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like, "Okay, cool." >> Yeah. So, I ju I do want to give like a trigger warning up top. This is going to
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be a two-parter. This, if you've clicked on it, obviously you know is the murder
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of Terry King. Um, it involves a lot of child abuse and like actual physical abuse and sexual abuse. So, I know
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that's not something everybody wants to listen to. So, I just want you to know that these two parts we are going to
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talk about some of that kind of stuff. Not very explicitly by any means. Dave is incredible when he helps us research
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this stuff and he keeps out like the awful >> details super graphic. >> We never want to go too far, but uh that
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is a theme in this. So, just know that. >> So, let's dive in. Let's do it. All right. So, on the night of November
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26th, 2001, Ed Harris had just fallen asleep next to his wife. Like, he was falling asleep and he got up all of a
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sudden and heard these weird cracking popping sounds. So, he's still half asleep. He gets out of bed and he's like
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stumbling around in the dark figuring out trying to figure out where these sounds are coming from. And that's when
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he reached the window and he saw that the house next door to them was engulfed in flames. So he grabbed the phone. He
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called 911 to report the fire and he told the dispatcher, "Terry King and his two boys are in that fire. I know
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they're home because their cars in the driveway." >> Oh, that'd be horrifying. >> Yeah. So he gave directions on how to
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reach what was a pretty isolated rural road and he was told that firefighters were on their way. Now David Jordan was
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the firefighter who first arrived on the scene. He was actually off duty at that
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point but he heard the call come through on the police scanner and just like literally went right to it.
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>> By the time he reached the house, the fire had already burned through most of
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the roof. >> Wow. And from over the roar of the fire and the snapping of wood, he could hear
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Ed Harris yelling to tell him that the King family was still inside the house. So he knew he couldn't wait for the
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other firefighters to get there. So he went around to the back of the house where the fire hadn't reached yet, and
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he kicked down the back door. But as soon as he did that, a massive cloud of like toxic black smoke just came
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billowing out into the backyard. >> Oh, damn. So, he knew there was no way he was going to be able to get inside to
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see anything or be able to get inside and breathe without any equipment. So, he decided to uh prepare the building by
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cutting off the power and clearing a path for the onduty firefighters to get there.
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>> Mhm. >> So, when the fire crew arrived a short time later, they moved slowly through
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the house, crawling on the floor from one room to the next, but they didn't see any signs of victims or survivors.
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Firefighter Marcus Williams had just about used up the air in his oxygen tank and he was actually turning to make his
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way out of the house when he got radioed from another firefighter in another part
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of the house that they had found a body. The room was completely dark and obviously clouded by smoke. So,
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firefighter Brandon Beecher was kind of just like feeling his way around what he
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thought was the living room and he was padding along the sofa when his hand suddenly touched something resting on
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the edge. >> Oh man. So he moved the beam of his flashlight onto the edge of the couch
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and immediately jerked his hand away when he realized what he was touching was a human foot.
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Now once the fire was fully extinguished and the room had been cleared of all the
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smoke, he and the other firefighters were able to take in the full picture. The homeowner, 40-year-old Terry King,
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was sitting in an armchair in a very relaxed position, his legs propped up on the adjacent couch, hands folded across
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his chest, and a coffee cup sitting on the arm of the chair. And even though he was covered in soot and scarred by the
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fire at that point, they were surprised, firefighters, by how serene and peaceful
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he looked. It looked like he had just fallen asleep right there and was like completely unaware.
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>> Spooky though. >> Super spooky. But when they moved around to the other side of his body, the right
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side of his face told a very different story. There was a fist-sized hole in the right side of his forehead, and
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there were streaks of blood dried down his face. >> Holy [ __ ] >> Yeah. So, as they scoured the scene, it
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was very clear that this was the home of a family. There was children's toys on various rooms, floors, and there were
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Christmas decorations that had been laid out, but not put up yet. Oh man, that's
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that would that part would really get me. >> That like juxtaposition. >> Yeah, it's when people were right in the
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middle of doing something or intending to do something and something like this happens. It like it's a weird feeling.
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>> So, given what they've been told by the 911 dispatcher, investigators expected
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to find two more victims in the house, but they couldn't locate Terry's two sons, 13-year-old Derek and 12-year-old
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Alex. So they theorized that if the boys had been in the fire when the house broke out, maybe they fled the scene in
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search of safety. >> Yeah. >> The case obviously was immediately labeled a homicide because of the way
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that Terry was found and now the potential kidnapping. >> So detectives were dispatched to the
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scene and roadblocks were set up in the county to search for Derek and Alex. Now
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>> the initial theory was that Terry was asleep when his killer snuck into the house, attacked him with some kind of
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large object, probably a baseball bat. >> Mhm. And investigators actually believed
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that Terry never saw his attacker and that once he was dead, the killer obviously set the fire and left the
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scene. Fire investigators quickly determined that an accelerant had been used to set the fire, which meant that
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it had spread very quickly and burned very hot. >> Yeah. >> So, while investigators were working at
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the scene, one of the deputies was approached by a man who said he heard about the fire on his police scanner and
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he actually thought he knew the people who lived in the house. like he was like, "Oh, I know these people." He was
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later identified as Ricky Shavas and he was taken in to talk to Sergeant Tony Bane at a command station across the
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street. So Ricky introduced himself to Bane as a friend of Terry's and he seemed in that moment very anxious to
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know if Terry was inside the house or not or if he had died in the fire. >> Mhm.
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>> It was obviously still very early in the investigation. Like they're still working this scene actively right now.
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>> So Sergeant Bane was very tight-lipped. He wasn't going to give out any information, but from his perspective,
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Ricky Shavas seemed very eager to learn the fate of his friend, which you can understand.
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>> Yeah. >> But he also even offered to make the identification if there was a body,
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>> which is a little weird. >> Yeah. I mean, I would at least be like, "Wow." >> Yeah.
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>> It was just not something that >> this sergeant ran into all the time. So, Sergeant Bane was obviously still
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reluctant, like I said, to provide any information, but Ricky's rapidfire questions continued, and he eventually
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just straight up asked the sergeant, "Do you think the boys killed him?" >> Like referring to his 12 and 13year-old
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sons. >> Okay. Yeah. No. >> Yeah. So, the question weird question, it's a weird question. So, the investigators
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like super caught off guard now because all they knew at that point was that the
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boys weren't in the house. >> Yeah. why would this dude just show up saying he heard this on the police
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scanner and start asking like wild questions like this? So, and he basically asked him as much. He was
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like, "What are you talking about?" >> Yeah. And Ricky responded, "Well, Terry was an abusive father." And he went on
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to explain that a few days earlier the boys had run away from home and come to him for help.
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>> Oh. So Ricky's interest in the fire paired with the way that Terry was found was
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all highly unusual and especially to Sergeant Bane. So in his police report, he actually made note of Ricky's
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presence. >> Okay. >> He said, "I found it odd that Chavis had not inquired about the condition or
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whereabouts of the boys given the circumstances." Hm. >> Cuz he's not even asking where they are.
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He's just like >> he say just did they kill him? >> That's it. Yeah. >> Yeah. Like where are they?
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>> And he's not he's asking if Terry's died, but he's not asking if the boys died. They're all right.
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>> All a little strange. And he was really smart to add that all in his police report.
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>> Yeah. >> And so he writes that down and he reiterated to Ricky that it was still
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very early. He wasn't giving any comments, but he was like, I I'll take your information, thanks, and I'll call
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you when we know something. So later that day, lead investigator John Sanderson immediately went to the crime
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scene after he was assigned the case to see what he was dealing with. >> He hadn't been there very long when one
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of the deputies let him know that the boy's grandfather, Jimmy Walker, had arrived and he wanted to talk to
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somebody in charge. >> Yeah. >> Sitting down with Sanderson, Jimmy Walker explained that he was actually
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the boy's stepgrandfather. Uh his wife, Linda, was their maternal grandmother and her daughter, Kelly, was their
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mother. >> Okay. So Jimmy said he hadn't seen the boys in a few weeks and explained that a
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week earlier, like Ricky had said, they had run away for about a week. He said they were missing all last week until
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Terry found them in Pace. Ricky called last night to tell us they were back home with Terry.
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>> Okay, >> Ricky's coming up again. >> This is the first time that Sanderson though hears about Ricky, but definitely
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obviously not the last time his name would come up in the investigation. So Jimmy told the detective that Ricky was
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Terry's good friend who for the last couple of months had been helping out Terry with the boys, watching them on
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nights where Terry was working. Jimmy said he was really worried about the boys, you know, with Terry abusing them
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and all like what yeah is happening here. It's just very interesting that everybody's
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kind of saying this like yeah just like so >> well matter of factly like just being
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like well you know he was racism like everybody should know that and it's like what
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>> why did nobody call the >> guys what's going on here >> and it's like if all of these adults
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know that these boys are being abused >> exactly like why are no phone calls being made
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>> so Sanderson was like what is the extent of the abuse here cuz like that's I just
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read that in some of the other notes like what is this about But Jimmy couldn't really come up with any kind of
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detailed description. He just said that according to Ricky, Terry was planning to have a long session with the boys the
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previous night in what he referred to as the therapy room where he would just make the boys sit and stare at the wall
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for hours. >> What? >> But the grandfather heard that from Ricky. So, >> okay. >> Weird. And it also struck uh
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investigator Sanderson or Detective Sanderson as strange that Jimmy even knew about the fire so quickly in the
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investigation. No one had been notified yet. >> Yeah. >> The medical examiner hadn't even started
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the autopsy or identified the body. Like none of none of that had happened yet. >> So, and the other thing was nobody had
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even notified that the family that the boys were missing. >> Yeah. Like this is all very willy-nilly.
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It's very strange. So Jimmy explained that Ricky had called him and told him about the fire, which he Ricky had heard
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over his scanner. And Jimmy said that Ricky told him he'd been at the scene and some of the firefighters let him
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into the house to see the body, which had not happened. >> What? Detective Sanderson obviously knew
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that was a flatout lie, but he was like, "Why is Ricky Why is this guy Ricky lying to this grandfather about
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something so consequential? Like, what the [ __ ] is going on here? >> What the [ __ ] is happen?" Meanwhile,
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they're like, "We thought we were coming to a house fire." >> Yeah. >> And this just opened up a [ __ ] whole
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realm of [ __ ] >> Exactly. >> Like, damn. So, the more Detective Sanderson looked into the background of
00:19:55
the King family, the more chaos and misinformation that swirled around between the family in those early hours
00:20:00
made sense to him. Like a lot of people in rural Cantonment, Florida, Terry's life and the life of his family hadn't
00:20:08
really been an easy one. And in recent years, the family had fractured and didn't really communicate very well with
00:20:13
each other. So, it made it difficult to get a very accurate picture of their day-to-day home life because you call
00:20:19
one person and they're saying one thing. You call another person and they don't really talk to them, but they have this
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information from this time period. It's >> all kind of a mess. >> But, as best as Detective Sanderson
00:20:30
could tell, Terry King had met Derek and Alex's mother, Kelly, while he was visiting his father in 1986. And he was
00:20:37
immediately drawn to Kelly. They started dating. Things turned serious very quickly. In a short time, they'd moved
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in together. And about a year into that, Kelly found out she was pregnant. On May
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4th, 1988, she gave birth to their son, Derek. And a year later, Alex followed. Unfortunately, the things that had made
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them very compatible as a couple, like their quiet personalities, very laid-back attitudes, didn't really serve
00:21:01
them well when it came to parenting, and they struggled into transitioning into their new roles as parents. Kelly
00:21:08
especially was very easily overwhelmed by her new responsibilities and she kind of just like checked out mentally and
00:21:14
emotionally a lot of the time which then left all of the parenting and money earning to Terry who also quickly burned
00:21:21
out from exhaustion because it was all on him. >> Mhm. >> According to authors uh Katherine Mico
00:21:26
and Molly Barrows, we're going to link their book in the show notes. As Terry quote settled into the role of a family
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man, Kelly grew more restless. >> Like they're growing apart here. Yeah, this is not great.
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>> Their relationship had also started when Kelly was 17. So, she never really knew
00:21:41
life outside of like her parents telling her what to do and now becoming a mother
00:21:45
herself. >> She's a kid herself. >> She had no time to find herself. >> So, when the stress of family life got
00:21:50
to be too much or if she was in a especially depressed mood because she did struggle with depression, she would
00:21:56
just dip out for days at a time and just kind of go missing >> only to return with like a half-hearted
00:22:02
apology. And every time Terry would take her back. Then in 1991, she came home from one of her disappearances and
00:22:10
announced to Terry that she was pregnant with twins. Hoping to keep her happy and making make
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her want to stay, Terry said he forgave her and he wanted to help her raise the twins like they were his own, which they
00:22:24
were not. Wow. So, it seemed to actually work out for a bit. But a few years later, Kelly's restlessness returned and
00:22:32
she decided that she really just didn't want to be a mom. her desire was not there. Which like after having four
00:22:37
kids, it's a little late to decide. >> I was going to say I know people will get mad, but
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>> you can get mad all you want. >> You can't decide four kids in that you don't feel like being a mom anymore.
00:22:46
Like you know, people would dead be mom. >> Yeah. Like that's that's an [ __ ] move.
00:22:50
>> It is like you know. So it was 1994. She couldn't handle the stress and the pressure of the parenthood anymore and
00:22:56
she moved out which left Terry with all four kids, two of which were not his own
00:23:01
children. But he was like, "Okay, like I'll I'll try to figure this out." >> That's [ __ ] crazy.
00:23:07
>> Yeah, that's wild. >> And they didn't have like he even when she was around, a lot of stuff was on
00:23:13
him and like money earning was all on him. >> And now you don't have anybody else
00:23:18
around. So it's like it's awful. >> Oh boy. >> Now, for most of his adult life, Terry
00:23:23
King had managed to scrape by with what he earned from pretty lowpaying jobs. And it had, like I was just saying, been
00:23:29
hard enough to keep their heads above water when Kelly was at her best. But now she was completely gone and he was
00:23:34
responsible for everyone and things were looking bleak. >> He did his best to try to keep up with
00:23:40
the responsibilities of parenting and bills, but it didn't take long before he was falling behind on payments. He
00:23:46
didn't have a valid driver's license at the time, so he was waking up early every morning to catch a ride to work um
00:23:53
which was in Mobile, Alabama, so a little further away. He worked long hours as a day laborer and during that
00:24:00
time he would just leave the kids with different family members who were willing to help.
00:24:04
>> Yeah. >> But before long the financial problems got really bad and he started writing
00:24:08
bad checks to get food at the grocery store. >> Oh man. >> Which is really sad. >> Which like to get food at the grocery
00:24:14
store. >> Yeah. Like that's sad. >> Yeah. Eventually that caught up with him and he got arrested for passing bad
00:24:20
checks, which I do feel like I this might be insane to say, but it's like if you get caught writing bad checks to the
00:24:27
grocery store, there should be some kind of program that helps you cuz like cuz you're trying to get food,
00:24:34
>> right? Like that's a basic feels like that. Yeah, >> that's just a different >> I don't know if there is something that
00:24:40
>> Yeah, I have no idea. It just feels it's a it's got a different, you know, >> Yeah. It's not like you're like stealing
00:24:47
jewelry, >> you know what I mean? Deal baby formula. It's like heartbreaking. >> They're not doing it for the thrill of
00:24:53
it. Like that's, you know, >> so at that time the family was broken up for a long period. Terry kept the twin
00:24:59
boys because he didn't have anybody else to give them to. Derek went to live with
00:25:03
Kelly's mother and Alex went to stay with Kelly's father because nobody really had enough resources to take care
00:25:08
of all of them at once. Kelly's parents wanted to help and they did their best to pitch in with what
00:25:14
they could do, but they weren't a long-term solution because they just didn't have everything to care for small
00:25:19
children. It's it's a lot. >> You need a lot of [ __ ] >> So, when it became clear to Terry that
00:25:25
it was going to take a lot longer to get his life back on track, he made the impossible decision to place all four
00:25:31
boys in the foster care system, >> which is just heartbreaking. >> Yeah. So, because they were still really
00:25:37
little, the twins were quickly placed with a foster family and they got adopted not long after. Oh,
00:25:42
>> that's good. >> Yeah. Derek stayed in the foster home with his brother Alex for a few months
00:25:47
before he eventually got placed by himself with a family of Frank and Nancy Lei. They had worked with the state for
00:25:52
years and it sounds like they were pretty good people. Unfortunately, Alex had the hardest time with the transition
00:25:58
and like the frequent disruptions cuz I'm pretty sure he's like four at this point, like four or five.
00:26:02
>> But this is like breaking my heart for these kids. It's horrible. This was a really tough one to get through, but for
00:26:09
some reason it was difficult to get him placed with a foster family. So, he was just in the care of the state,
00:26:14
>> which I don't exactly know what the I I don't know if you just like bounce around from family to family because you
00:26:20
can't get permanently placed. >> Breaks my heart. >> It's awful. >> So, at first, Terry and Kelly tried to
00:26:26
keep in contact with Derek. Kelly appeared again and they tried to keep in contact with Derek, but eventually the
00:26:32
foster parents, Nancy and Frank, told them that their calls were upsetting and confusing to Derek.
00:26:37
>> Well, yeah. >> Which you can understand. >> Like she's trying to create a stable
00:26:41
environment. >> And it's like you're you can't kind of be there in like that kid at that age, a
00:26:48
four-year-old isn't going to understand. Like why can't I talk to my parents? I think Alex was like around four or
00:26:54
five and Dererick was around like five or six. >> Those are babies. >> Babies. So, the sudden disappearance of
00:27:01
both of his parents without any explanation obviously took a very serious toll on him and it took a toll
00:27:07
on his relationship with his foster family >> at school, which was really the only
00:27:11
constant in his life. He was very focused. He was very well behaved. >> Just shocking.
00:27:15
>> It really is. But when he got home, it seemed like he became another person. He
00:27:20
got more and more defiant as he was growing up. He rejected any attempts at warmth or family intimacy by the lace,
00:27:26
which obviously just put a greater strain on the relationship. But it's not his fault.
00:27:30
>> No. >> And it's not theirs. They're It seems like everybody's trying. >> Everyone's trying their best with what
00:27:34
they have. >> But as he got older, his behavior got worse and eventually included vandalism,
00:27:39
destruction of property, and setting small fires. >> Really bad. Now, I don't know how much
00:27:46
like therapy was involved in this back then because this is like the early 90s, so I don't know.
00:27:52
>> But while Derek struggled to adjust to his life with his new family, Alex went
00:27:56
through his own very traumatic period. After several unsuccessful attempts to place him with a foster family, Terry
00:28:02
eventually regained custody and Alex moved in with his father. Again, >> this is just like a lot.
00:28:08
>> It's a lot of bouncing around and they're very young. number one thing that kids need is stability. Yeah. When
00:28:14
they're when they're little babies. >> Stability is so important. >> Yeah. >> So since he'd placed the boys in foster
00:28:20
care, all Terry wanted was to get them back. So this was a step in the right direction. At least he felt.
00:28:27
>> Mhm. >> But now he faced a new problem. What to do with Alex while he was at work. Alex
00:28:32
had just started kindergarten and was at only at school for a small portion of the day cuz some kindergartens are only
00:28:38
like a few hours. usually when they start that's like >> so that left a few hours in the day
00:28:43
where somebody needed to watch him and Terry just didn't have anybody who could. So at a loss for what to do
00:28:49
>> a lot of people deal with that. >> Oh, so many people deal with that have dealt with that situation.
00:28:55
>> So at a loss for what to do, he pulled him out of school and just started bringing him to work every day.
00:28:59
>> So now he's just not going to school. >> Yeah. So, in the years that followed,
00:29:05
which I don't, this might sound so dumb, but do you have to complete kindergarten
00:29:10
or can you just go right to first grade? It's not universally required in the US.
00:29:14
>> Yeah, I thought >> in half the states it's mandatory. Most other states require school entry by age
00:29:19
five or six. >> Yeah. So, kindergarten so you can homeschool technically or >> Yeah, makes sense. It's not
00:29:25
>> I think it's just recommended. It's recommended, but there Florida's like compulsory attendance laws kick in at
00:29:31
six, which is first grade. It's apparently optional in Massachusetts. >> Is it really?
00:29:35
>> Yeah. >> Interesting. >> All right. Well, there's that. So, he didn't he didn't end up going to
00:29:41
kindergarten. He just kind of like went to work with Terry. >> Yeah. >> In the years that followed, they moved
00:29:45
around a lot around Florida a lot. They lived in a a travel trailer, so they just kind of went wherever there was
00:29:51
work. So, again, not very stable. No. By 2001 though, Terry had finally started to get his feet under him a little bit
00:29:58
and thanks to a close friend, he managed to find a more stable housing situation,
00:30:03
renting a small house in Cantonement and eventually managing to hold down a stable job. So, he was really he was
00:30:09
really trying. >> Yeah. He's working hard to like be the father. >> Yeah. And he he also wants to earn Derek
00:30:15
back. >> Yeah. >> Because now that the twins were adopted, he wasn't going to earn those two back.
00:30:19
This is one of those things you would like you hope people do this before they introduce children into their lives.
00:30:24
Like that's the ideal. Like you should try to be as stable as humanly possible before you
00:30:30
>> create another human being to take care of. But obviously things happen and that
00:30:34
can happen in a different way. >> And it's like but a lot of people once they get the kids they don't put in any
00:30:40
work to become that you know like they don't want to be better. They don't make any effort to be better. At the very
00:30:47
least, it sounds like Terry was making an effort to be a good, stable father. >> Exactly. So, at that point, he's he's
00:30:55
got a job. He's got a place to live. Like, he's he's doing all right. And he made the acquaintance of a man named
00:31:00
Ricky Chavis. I don't know if you recognize the name. I do. Ricky offered Terry the use of his garage to work on
00:31:07
his car. And over the course of a few years, they became better friends. So, when Ricky offered to watch Alex while
00:31:12
Terry had to work, Terry was like, "Oh my god, thanks, man." like I really appreciate that. And he's desperate.
00:31:18
>> Yeah. >> So, at the lay house, things had not improved with time. Dererick's behavior
00:31:23
continued to be a problem as he got older. And as he got older, the problem only got bigger. By the time he was 13,
00:31:30
his stealing and destructive behavior had become more than Frank and Nancy could handle. And one afternoon in the
00:31:36
early summer of 2001, after Derek was caught sniffing lighter fluid on the school bus.
00:31:40
>> Holy [ __ ] >> Yeah, it's intense. I didn't even know that that was a thing. >> A literal baby.
00:31:45
child. >> Nancy called Terry to explain what was going on and she laid out all the ways
00:31:50
they had tried to help him and how just nothing had been successful. So, she was
00:31:55
seeking his permission to enroll Derrick in a military academy. Terry refused to
00:32:00
give permission and instead obviously jumped at the opportunity to regain custody of his other son, which
00:32:07
I get. >> I totally understand. >> That's your kid. Like, >> like my outside perspective is like he
00:32:13
seems to need I some structure. I don't know if the military academy is the way to go, but like again, I don't know a
00:32:19
lot about that. And I can see why they were like, he needs some structure and like this is bad and if we don't nip
00:32:25
this, it's going to get even worse. And then I understand Terry being like, I I'll just take him like I'll take him
00:32:30
back. Like don't give him away again. You know, >> I'm not saying either way is the right
00:32:33
way. I'm just saying you can understand the emotions involved. >> Exactly. So, neither Frank or Nancy had ever
00:32:54
thought much of Terry as a father, and they really didn't think he was going to be able to continue to provide a decent,
00:32:59
stable home environment for Derek. They actually tried to seek out other housing
00:33:03
options, including sending him back to his mother. >> I don't know what the situation was
00:33:09
there. I don't know if maybe she >> Hey, maybe she had >> had done some work. I don't I don't
00:33:13
know. It didn't work out. It took several weeks of arguing and confusion, but by early September, Terry managed to
00:33:18
convince them that he was the best option. >> Okay. So, >> he probably showed that he was doing the
00:33:22
work. >> I I think he did. So, for Derek, the transition from the Lays back to his
00:33:27
father was just another traumatic experience. >> It's yo-yoing everywhere. >> Yeah. You know, and I'm sure again, I
00:33:34
don't know what this feels like personally. I was very lucky that way. But I imagine as a kid, you're feeling
00:33:39
like >> you're not wanted anywhere. >> Yeah. >> So, you just keep getting passed to the
00:33:44
next person or getting passed back and then passed back that way. I'm sure >> the kid is only going to internalize
00:33:49
that that way of like they're not going to see the >> like you about it that's like, oh, well,
00:33:55
you know, this is they're not stable, so they're trying to provide me with this.
00:33:58
Like, no, they're going to be like, you just don't want me. Yeah. >> And this person doesn't want me either.
00:34:02
>> Yeah. It's really sad. Like I can't imagine. >> And also I can't imagine like going to
00:34:07
live with people that weren't your family. >> That's a I can't imagine how hard that
00:34:10
was. >> I was lucky enough like when my mom couldn't take care of me anymore, I got
00:34:13
placed with family. I can't imagine being placed outside of that. >> That's a thing like that's that's a
00:34:18
whole different thing that nobody can understand unless they've been through it, I imagine.
00:34:22
>> And you have to remember he's 13 now. He's lived with this family >> for a long time
00:34:26
>> for over 10 years like or at least close to 10 years. At that point, it's like
00:34:32
>> that's his family >> regardless of how it's going. That's his family. >> And he's lived with them longer than he
00:34:38
lived with his own father. >> Yeah. >> Like that's you got to take that into account
00:34:41
>> and a big chunk of his developmental time. >> Absolutely. Like formative years.
00:34:46
>> But so things didn't go well because things were handled very poorly in my opinion.
00:34:51
>> That's my opinion. That's my opinion. And again, I'm not like blaming anybody.
00:34:55
I'm just saying like the whole situation is [ __ ] wild. >> We're looking at it from a bird's eye
00:35:01
view. Obviously, I'm I go back all the time and say like, "Oh, damn. I I wish I made a better decision there." So, I'm
00:35:06
not judging anybody >> and we're being like super careful because we just don't want to be,
00:35:12
>> but we're just looking at it from all angles. That's all. >> And obviously, this is a very delicate
00:35:17
situation. So Frank and Nancy held off on telling Derek until a few weeks before he was to move back home, which
00:35:23
just didn't give him enough time to adjust to the idea. >> Ah, yeah. But >> but you can also understand with you on
00:35:30
that opinion. >> Yeah, I think it's wrong. I I don't think it was the right decision, but at
00:35:34
the same time, I can understand them maybe being like, if we tell him too soon, will he run away? Will we
00:35:42
>> like will things get even worse? Like it's an impossible >> and like we've already made this
00:35:46
decision. So what if he doesn't want this and then we have to go back. But I just think of it as like
00:35:51
>> personally like as a parent like one of my children I have to give them ample
00:35:57
notice for fun things like she doesn't like being having something thrown on her at the last second. Even if it is
00:36:05
like this exciting awesome aquarium like go to the zoo or something. She wants time to take it in and to sit with it
00:36:11
and prepare for it. Well that's the thing that some kids are like that. >> Yeah. And I don't obviously I don't know
00:36:17
how Derek was, but you just don't know. >> I mean, he's already struggling for me.
00:36:23
>> Yeah, I imagine >> the like like all the different transitions in his life. So you're
00:36:28
>> So needing time to absorb some information might be something that would be beneficial to him. But again,
00:36:34
there's so much going on right now. >> Who knows what >> that it also maybe it didn't matter
00:36:38
either way. Like maybe both ways it wouldn't have been ideal, you know? >> Yeah. Exactly. Well, as a result of him
00:36:47
not really having enough time to get ready to acclimate himself to this idea, when the time came for Terry to go pick
00:36:53
up Derek and bring him home, quote unquote, Derek felt like he was being ripped away from his family before he
00:36:58
was ready. >> Yeah. Uh, as they point out in their book, uh, that we will link in the show
00:37:03
notes. Mico and Barrow said although they'd had difficult times, the Lays were the only family he ever had known
00:37:08
and he was losing them. >> Mhm. and he was being returned to what had to have felt like a total stranger.
00:37:14
It had been almost 7 years since he'd seen his father and brother. >> Yeah, this just doesn't feel like a good
00:37:22
idea. No, >> like I know I'm not saying he shouldn't be allowed to be with his parent like
00:37:26
his biological parents. >> I think it should have been and this again is just my opinion. I think it's
00:37:31
got to be a slow transition. I was going to say there needed to be more. >> Yeah. I think you spend like an hour
00:37:36
over there. You get lunch. >> Yeah. >> You bring them to lunch. You bring him to the movies
00:37:41
>> and you start building this trust and this relationship and this bond and then
00:37:45
you spend a weekend and see how you two react with each other. >> You are not a typical
00:37:51
>> parent and child now because you have not had that time to fully bond like a parent and child who are in the same
00:37:58
home all the time do. So it's like you need time to see if you work, right? >> Cuz I mean the sad fact is some parents
00:38:06
and children don't work. >> Don't work. Let me tell you. I know it's like it seems like it should be the way
00:38:11
that like you should always want the parent and the child, the biological parent and child to be together.
00:38:16
Sometimes that isn't the best. No, it's not. >> It's just facts. Like it's I mean we
00:38:20
have we have lots of >> That's why the system is very broken. >> Yeah. Like that we have lots of evidence
00:38:25
to see that that's not always the best thing is having a parent and child together. My therapist
00:38:29
>> and I'm not saying that's the situation here. I'm just saying when you're when
00:38:33
you're going into something like this, I think it's good to give it some time and
00:38:38
really like see if this works for both parent and child. >> I had a therapist tell me once that you
00:38:44
don't always get the parent you're supposed to. >> And I believe that. >> And I fully believe that.
00:38:48
>> Like I fully believe that. >> Like some children and parents, like you just said, are just not good matchups.
00:38:53
And you see these I mean you see these situations where like stepparents come in and just become everything that that
00:39:00
child needs and didn't even realize they needed >> and like the biological parent couldn't
00:39:06
or would >> and it's like so sometimes it isn't the biological parent that killed it.
00:39:11
>> Sometimes it's not. >> Yeah. Or these like adoptive or foster parents like become everything that
00:39:16
these children needed or wanted. >> Yeah. And then that's got to be tough because when you're a foster parent,
00:39:21
like you don't always get the option to adopt. You don't always know how long you're going to be able to be that
00:39:26
person's that child's steady >> person, an adult in their life. Like that's loving foster parents are
00:39:34
>> the like gems of world. >> I couldn't even I would love to be able to foster a [ __ ] puppy and I couldn't
00:39:41
do it cuz I'd end up adopting all the puppies. So I can't imagine babies. >> It's so weird and children. This topic
00:39:47
is coming up a lot lately. I feel like I feel like we've talked about this a lot
00:39:50
lately and it's something I do think about like in the future. Yeah. I just like
00:39:54
>> I was like teetering on the system of like maybe ending up there and maybe not.
00:39:59
>> So, it would be cool to give back, but I don't know. I don't know if I could do
00:40:02
it, >> but I give foster parents a [ __ ] ton of credit. >> Yeah. >> So, for Detective John Sanderson,
00:40:07
learning the backstory of the King family and the years of dysfunction that had led up to this fire and everything
00:40:13
else going on was very useful. >> Yeah. Good to know. Yeah, it definitely provided insight into potential
00:40:18
suspects, but his immediate concern was finding Derek and Alex because they're still missing. And unfortunately, family
00:40:25
history really didn't provide any leads to where they could be. So, on the afternoon of November 26th, Detective
00:40:31
Sanderson and several deputies just made calls to various family members and immediate family to inform them of
00:40:38
Terry's death. Obviously, Terry's mother, Joyce, and his brother, Greg, took the news very hard, of course. And
00:40:43
they couldn't imagine who would have wanted Terry dead. As far as his mother, Joyce, know sorry, Terry tried to be a
00:40:50
good dad and he worked really hard to support his kids. She never knew him to be a drinker. She never knew him as a
00:40:55
drug user. And she said even though he had a few run-ins with the police in the past, those incidents came from a place
00:41:01
of desperation to feed his family. >> Yeah. just like turning to to unsavory methods to get things for his family
00:41:09
that >> literally provide. >> Right. >> So, they told the police that the only person they really even knew Terry to
00:41:16
associate with outside of their family was his friend Ricky. >> Okay. >> So, as Detective Sanderson was sorting
00:41:22
through what he had learned, he couldn't help but notice that one name just kept
00:41:26
coming up. Ricky Chavis. An hour later, he was sitting across the desk in his office from Ricky at the Escambia
00:41:32
Sheriff's Office. Ricky confirmed what Sanderson had already heard from everybody else. He and Terry had been
00:41:38
good friends. They'd gone back a few years. And Ricky said he went out of his way to support Terry and the boys in any
00:41:44
way that he could. He said, "I really care about those boys." Terry was abusing them. A lot of it psychological.
00:41:52
Okay, >> so Ricky explained that since Derek had been placed back home in September,
00:41:56
which like they had just gotten placed back home, the boys struggled to adjust. Just a few weeks earlier, they'd both
00:42:03
run away from home and Ricky found them in Pace, Florida a week before the fire.
00:42:08
>> When it came to where the boys might be now, Ricky said they may be back up back
00:42:12
out in the woods. And he said since they had been found, quote, "Neither boy wanted to be with Terry. There was a
00:42:18
hard friction between them. You really need to talk to Deputy Reggie Jernigan. He knows what's been going on with the
00:42:23
Kings. >> Okay. So, from Sanderson's perspective, there was just something off about this
00:42:29
guy. >> I love when they have a gut, >> a hunch. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. He claimed to be Terry King's
00:42:35
closest friend and somebody who cared very deeply about this family, but at the same time, he's sitting here saying,
00:42:40
"Terry's an abusive father, but he's one of my closest friends and I love his kids."
00:42:46
Then there was also the matter of Ricky Shavas having lied to Jimmy Walker about
00:42:49
going into the house and seeing the body, which Ricky claimed was just a misunderstanding.
00:42:55
>> What? Because remember, >> how do you create a misunderstanding about that? >> I have no idea. But remember, he
00:43:00
literally told their stepgrandfather that he gone and seen the body. Like, you don't just accidentally say that.
00:43:07
>> No. >> So, he was like, a misunderstanding. Okay. But what struck Detective Sanderson most was the way that Ricky
00:43:13
kept steering the conversation back to the supposed abuse. According to Ricky, the abuse was almost
00:43:19
entirely psychological. He said, "Alex told me once that on the weekends they go through therapy and they can't talk.
00:43:26
Terry makes them stare at each other for hours." And he said when Terry was at work, the boys were told to stay inside
00:43:31
and lock the doors. He said they couldn't talk to nobody until Terry picked them up and took them to work
00:43:36
with him, which like making them stare at the walls for hours is that's probably abusive. Like in my opinion, I
00:43:42
mean to me that's kind of psychological abuse. >> That's very abusive. >> But like when you're not home and you
00:43:47
tell like they're like >> doors and don't answer it for anyone. >> I think that's just good parenting.
00:43:52
>> Yeah. >> Like if you're not going to be there. >> Yeah, that's I would say >> that's pretty standard. Like when I got
00:43:57
I left at home when I was that age, it was like Yeah, don't open the door for anybody. It would be worse worse if he
00:44:03
was like, "Unlock the door and welcome strangers in." Like that would be bad. That's not good parenting.
00:44:09
>> Yeah. >> But saying, "Lock the door and don't talk to anyone until I get here."
00:44:14
>> Sounds pretty careful. >> Yeah. >> Don't talk to anyone. You can't trust anyone out here on these streets.
00:44:20
>> So, like Jimmy Walker, Ricky seemed very determined to convey to the detective
00:44:24
that Terry was abusive, but he seemed unable to describe the abuse in any way that really made sense.
00:44:29
>> Yeah. Alex's uh supposed description of the therapy was very strange, but nothing Sanderson heard sounded like
00:44:37
straight up abuse. And remember, this was like 25 years ago. >> Yeah. So to them, they're like, "What?"
00:44:42
>> So like staring at the wall sounds abusive to us now. I think it just sounded kind of weird to them back then.
00:44:47
>> Yeah. Exactly. >> And then like we were just saying, for a single parent to require their kids to
00:44:52
stay inside while they were home alone just sounded reasonable to him. >> Like I'm like, "Are you is there
00:44:56
something else here?" >> Yeah. So he was like, "Uh, am I missing something?" >> Okay, I think that's pretty normal. So
00:45:02
something on the detective's face must have showed what he was thinking because as Ricky pressed on, things clearly
00:45:07
started to get more dire. He said, "I never saw any physical abuse between Terry and the boys, but Alex did tell me
00:45:14
his dad hit him before." >> Oh, so now we're we're getting more intense. Okay. >> Yeah. So obviously that gets Detective
00:45:20
Sanderson's attention, of course. >> And Ricky continued on explaining. He said, "You know, Alex didn't like his
00:45:25
dad, and Dererick told me he wished his dad was dead." >> I don't know what happened to Terry, how
00:45:29
he died, I mean, but if it was a homicide, those boys had something to do with it.
00:45:34
>> Wow. >> Wow. >> Just dropped that bomb out of absolutely nowhere. >> And after sitting here being like, I'm
00:45:41
super close with this family. I love those boys. I do anything so much. Do anything for them. Love Terry.
00:45:48
>> He is an abusive prick, though. And if somebody killed him, he deserved it. And
00:45:53
it was probably his kids. How do you get from A to B there? >> I have no idea. >> That detective was probably like,
00:46:02
>> what? >> Okay. What the [ __ ] >> What the actual [ __ ] >> Damn. >> And that is where we're going to break
00:46:08
for part one. Because with that bombshell, honey. Whoa. Wow. So, yeah, that's where we're going to leave.
00:46:15
>> [ __ ] >> Break for part one. Part two will go over when the boys are eventually found
00:46:20
because I'll tell you that they are. Mhm. >> We'll go a little deeper into who exactly Mr. Ricky is.
00:46:26
>> Yeah, Ricky is giving me vibes. >> You know what? I'm just going to let you know cuz I think you already do.
00:46:32
>> He's unsaavory. >> Yeah, I would think he was unsavory. >> He's an unsavory character.
00:46:36
>> He's come off as unsavory. >> I'd like to physically fight him. >> I know this. I when I look I I didn't
00:46:42
look up like details about this case. I because I like you to tell me the story,
00:46:46
especially if I don't know it. >> Yeah, same. But I looked up pictures because I was like, "Why does this sound
00:46:50
so familiar?" And I know I remember bits and bits and pieces about this. Like the
00:46:58
fire I knew and I didn't know any of these details or anything, but as soon as I saw the pictures, I was like, "Oh,
00:47:03
I remember these." >> It's also I should have noted it at the top and I'm glad you decided what you
00:47:07
did. It happened right after 9/11. So now all of that news obviously was like all over the place and this kind of
00:47:16
trickled into the media while the boys were missing and then >> in part two we'll talk about what comes
00:47:21
out and that's when it really broke into like mainstream media. >> Yeah. Okay, that makes sense then.
00:47:25
>> Yeah. >> So a very interesting case. >> Oh, I don't like Ricky. I'm going to be
00:47:30
quite honest with you. You shouldn't. >> Okay, good. >> Cuz I I really don't like him.
00:47:34
>> Yeah. No, >> something's off. >> Hate him. >> Yeah. >> Um but we'll end this on a fun fact. Oh
00:47:40
yes, I have a fun fact. >> Tell us. >> Um, so this is this is a actual fun fact.
00:47:46
>> Yeah, it should be. >> McCauley Kulkin's middle name is McCauley Kulkin. So his name is Maui
00:47:51
McCauley Kulkin Kulkin. And he legally changed it. Um, and he said he literally changed it for that joke.
00:47:58
>> I'm obsessed. >> Just for the joke. >> Maui McCauley Kulkin Kulkin. >> And I think that's awesome.
00:48:04
>> How do you even yell that? >> Like that's awesome. He did it as an adult. So, nobody's probably yelling his
00:48:11
his middle name. >> If I was his mom, I would. >> I mean, somebody has to be up for that.
00:48:16
>> His wife should just Brenda yell it. >> That's so funny. >> Um, yeah. I was I had seen like a I saw
00:48:22
a very interesting interview with him. I think it's a mythical kitchen, >> it's called. Um, it's a good like they
00:48:28
sit down and they just like eat food and talk. >> I'm obsessed with that. And he was like,
00:48:32
it was a good interview with McCaulay Coke and and okay, >> he talks about Brenda and like how he
00:48:38
wants to be like such a different kind of parent than his, you know, like he goes into that whole thing about how he
00:48:44
wants to be like this amazing dad to his >> That's how millennial coded. We all just
00:48:47
want to be different parents. >> And that like Brenda like, you know, made him a better person. It's like a
00:48:53
very sweet interview and I just I was like, "Oh my god, I love them now." >> I love that a lot. London Tipton.
00:48:58
>> London. Brenda Song. >> There you the Prindle. I think of Brenda song every single time I shift gears in
00:49:04
my car. >> There's an episode you would not you have no idea what I'm saying. And if
00:49:08
you're if you're an older millennial like Helena and you didn't watch Sweet Life of Zach and Cody, there's an
00:49:12
episode where Mr. Tipton, who like uh is like the manager of the hotel, teaches her how to drive
00:49:18
>> and he's like, "What is this called?" And he's talking about like the gear shift and she's like, "The Prindle."
00:49:22
>> The Prindle. >> Like park reverse drive. >> Oh, I mean valid. >> Yeah, the Prindle.
00:49:27
>> I think that's valid. >> So that's what I call it now. I remember Brenda was in some like Disney Channel
00:49:33
original movies that I actually did watch. >> Oh, she was um she was like a a warrior.
00:49:38
>> I get a clue with Lindsay Lohan. >> Holy [ __ ] You just literally unlocked something in my brain.
00:49:45
>> She was in a really good one that I can't think of the name. >> I know. I was thinking that, too.
00:49:48
>> It was like a warrior one. >> Wendy Woo, Homecoming Warrior. >> Oh my god. >> Wendy Woo Homecoming Warrior. That did
00:49:56
slap. Yep. I remember Get a Clue and I think Yeah, >> I forgot that she was in Get a Clue.
00:50:02
>> Yeah, she really killed it. >> But she's also in the Social Network. >> I forgot that too. She was in The Social
00:50:06
Network. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. She really killed it. >> She's a queen. I love her.
00:50:10
>> This is now just us talking about Brenda Song, but that's okay with me. >> These are fun facts as well. The the
00:50:15
movies that Brenda was in. >> These are all fun facts. >> All right, guys. Well, with all that
00:50:19
being said, we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird. But not so weird that given the option,
00:50:26
you don't change your middle name to your first and last name legally. >> Yeah, I'm obsessed. Do that.
00:50:33
>> Mine, what would it Ash Ashkell Kell? >> Yeah, I like that. >> And you be Elena.
00:50:39
>> Elena Art. Yeah, >> white. >> I love it. >> Be a lot. >> White. It would be a lot. I think it's
00:50:47
great. Bye. Bye. Bye.