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Hey weirdos. I'm Elina. >> I'm Ash. >> And this is Morbid. [music] This [music] is morbid.
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>> This is morbid. And there's a lot going on. >> My goodness. Doesn't it just feel like
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that every single day you wake up? >> Truly. >> More and more going on. something very
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[music] it's this is one of those things it's very chilling and it's like something that I can't stop thinking
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about >> and like checking in on >> um so the today's show anchor Savannah Guthrie her 84year-old mother Nancy
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Guthrie has been missing since Saturday night I believe she seen was Saturday night
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>> and this story is just wild and heartbreaking and horrifying I can't stop thinking about it
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>> no I can't either >> we I mean We we I we haven't been so much recently just because life has
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gotten busy, but we used to be such a Today Show house. >> Oh my god. I used to come over like
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every single day and we would just watch hours of the Today Show. >> Love the Today Show. Um and like so
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we've been watching Savannah forever and it's >> years >> destroying my soul to think of how much
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pain she must be going through right now. >> My heart is with her and her family
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>> and this story is just wild. I mean Nancy is 84 years old. She's just described as sharp as attack, has a
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little bit of mobility issues, so she wasn't going to be getting up and leaving on her own,
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>> right? >> She lives in Arizona and there's not a lot coming out, which leads me to
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believe that >> they might have something that they're working on that or at least they're
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trying to chase something down that maybe they don't want or they something happened that they just don't want us to
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know. >> Yeah, because they've said they don't believe it's a home invasion. They don't
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believe it's a robbery gone wrong, but there is evidence of foul play. Yeah, it sounds like they're they're pretty much
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stating now that she was abducted from her bed. >> An 84 year old woman abducted from her
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bed. >> Yeah, it's horrific. >> It's just horrifying. She needs medication every 24 hours to literally
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survive. >> It's life-threatening if she doesn't have it. >> And she the medicine was left in the
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home, which is very concerning. >> And now her pacemaker is not connecting to her Apple Watch anymore.
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>> Yeah, that was the newest update. So, >> it's all really horrifying. And I'm just
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thinking about how her family is feeling right now. And I imagine I can't even put my brain in that space, but I just
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hope that like by some miracle found alive and well. >> I hope they know more than they're
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saying. >> Yeah. >> Um and I hope that they find Nancy because it's really it's the world.
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>> Yeah. And Savannah has gone through a lot. >> Yeah. She just I think she just came
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back from like a vocal cord surgery or something. Yeah. and just like their family in general. Like it's just so
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that's so sad. >> But yeah, we loved the we always love the Today Show and >> you know it just I was like oh
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>> yeah it's you like you have these people in your house on the daily so you feel
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this like strange connection to them. >> So I felt like super as soon as I heard
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I was like oh my god >> it's like your friend is going through this. It feels like
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>> it's really sad but just let's let's hope they find Nancy and Savannah's asking for prayers.
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>> Yeah. Like damn. Um but yeah, just wanted to point that out. Hopefully there's an update and a good one.
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>> A good one. I know. >> Let's manifest that for her. >> But yeah, um in another level.
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>> I was going to say going going into another hopefully we a little bit of positivity.
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>> Obviously everybody knows how we feel about ice. [ __ ] Ice. We want them out of
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Minnesota. We want them out of everywhere. >> Yeah. >> Um but we were thinking of just like
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anything we can do to help. >> And Mikey was uh nice enough to help us find this on uh Minnesota.org org and we
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will link this in our show notes. They have a full list of small businesses that you can support.
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>> Yes. So, we'll we'll link those in the show notes and we'll link we'll try to
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link them on I don't think Instagram allows links. It's >> I don't think it does either.
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>> It drives me nuts. I'm like, can you allow links? >> I know, Meta. >> Well, we'll link it in the show notes.
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Go find those. It's just wherever you're listening to. If you hit like more info,
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it should be right there. Yeah. >> I know sometimes people struggle to find them.
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>> Yeah. >> Uh so, check those out. Support some local businesses. Yeah. >> It's a great way to just cuz they're
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going through a lot more than what we're seeing. >> Yeah. >> We're being news is being suppressed for
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sure. >> So just like they they need all the support they can get. >> And anywhere else that you hear of ice,
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a great way to fight back and spend your money in a good way is to shop local. >> Exactly.
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>> Any any Etsy shops you can find in areas like that, you know, we love local businesses
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>> just in general. It's good to do anyways. >> Yeah, that's just good to do anyway. Um,
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on a more like lighter note, and this is we're really segueing. >> Yeah. >> I can't believe I'm segueing here.
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>> I mean, we need a segue. We need a segway. That's just if you know that's just that's the way the show goes.
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>> That was the business at the top and now we're at the banter. >> Do you know what a flow state is?
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>> Yeah. What is a flow state? I think like a flow state isn't that when you like
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really lock in. I don't Everybody says that like I keep seeing it on TikTok people being like I I ate this ice cream
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or I one thing that I keep seeing people saying is like they take a sip of like the most delicious latte and they enter
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a flow state. >> Yeah. I think it's like a really locked in state of just like >> like ready to [ __ ] go.
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>> So I just looked and I just looked it up. It says like being in the zone um complete absorption, focus, and
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enjoyment in whatever activity you are engaged in. >> Okay. I've enjoyed a lot of things in my
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life. I don't know that I've ever been in a flow state. >> Oh, I've been in a flow state so many
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times. >> Tell me when you're in a flow state. >> I'm in a flow state. >> Give me examples.
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>> When I can sit down in front of a computer in a word document and write more than three words, that's a flow
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state >> and I I enter a full flow state. If I'm tap tap tapping and [ __ ] is rolling out
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and it's happening, flow state. >> Okay. If I make a perfect coffee in the morning, immediately enter
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a flow state. >> Okay. >> So, I've probably been in a flow state. >> I'm sure you have. You're just not
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recognizing it as a flow. >> I got to recognize my flow states >> when I um when I like organize
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and feel like I've actually accomplished some kind of organization. Okay. >> I will enter a flow state.
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>> Okay. When I organized my pantry, I was in a flow state. >> You were in a flow state.
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>> All right. All right. All right. >> Yeah. Like I decorate for and Ash actually helped me this this time. I
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decorate for every holiday like the bathroom that like my kids generally use >> and we decorate it for every holiday.
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Like I always put a bunch of just cuz it's fun. They get home from school >> and or like they go to brush their teeth
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and they're like, "Oh my god." It's all these like lights and stuff. And so for Valentine's Day this year, we went like
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all out and Ash helped me like use the markers that you can write on the glass to like make little candy hearts on the
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>> I thought that was so cute. The little like conversation hearts >> and I think in those moments I enter a
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flow state. >> Okay. I was when I was doing those hearts even though my knees were hurting
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really bad um I was in a flow state. >> Yeah. >> See all that's a flow state. Thank you.
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I thought of this last night because I saw a talk of a lady being like, "Oh my god, I just entered a flow state cuz
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this latte is so good." And I felt like that was very Gen Z. And I said, "Have I
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been in a flow state? What ex I said, I wonder if Alina knows what a flow state is." And I saved it for the pod.
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>> I was going to ask you about flow states, but >> But you let it happen. >> I think I'm in a flow state when I shop.
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>> Oh, you definitely are in a flow [laughter] state when you shop. >> Yeah. Yeah, I definitely am.
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>> Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully we can all get into flow states with things we enjoy right now. There's another tip of the
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day. Make sure make it your [ __ ] mission tomorrow. >> Yeah, tomorrow. Right now.
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>> I mean, try it now. But it's okay if if you're not like in that place right now
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and you need a minute to like really, you know, get it or figure out what your flow state thing might be.
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>> Tomorrow, wake up, >> attempt flow state, whatever you need to do. Watch one of those late 90s, early
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2000s movies if you need to that flow state. >> Make an awesome coffee. organize, decorate,
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just read a book, write down some [ __ ] Like, do whatever you need to do. Enter.
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>> Make sure you do not go to bed tomorrow night >> until you have entered your flow state.
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Even for a second. >> Even if it's just a quick flow state. >> Oh, I think we all need that every day.
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>> This is like a glass shatter moment. I enter a a flow state when I do I almost
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said a scloate. [laughter] >> I enter a sloate. I enter a flow state when I do my skin care or an every an
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everything shower. That's a flow state. All right, I get it now. I get it. So, see, there you go. Get have a good
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shower or something like >> tomorrow make it your business to enter a flow state and then try to enter a
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flow state just for one second even every day >> just to give yourself that one.
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>> Does a flow state need to be a little bit longer though? A flow state feels longer than one second. I don't think
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there's a there's a >> there's no deadline on flow states. I think as long as you feel like you
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entered a flow state, even for a second. >> If you drank every time we said flow
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state during this, you would die. >> Yeah, you just died. >> That's crazy. >> Um but yeah, do that. I think that
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that's my advice for the day. >> I like that. >> My advice to get >> I'm all about flow states right now. We
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ordered Jersey Mike's cookies and I'm going to eat one after this and I forgot we had that.
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>> Oh, baby. Not only did we order like one, not only did we order two, we got two mini boxes. [laughter] And if they
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had more than mini boxes, we would get two of those, too. >> Hell yeah. >> Those put me in a flow state.
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>> We're going to need that because we're starting a threepart series that is going to be a harrowing journey.
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>> I have to tell you something. When you say we're starting a three-part series,
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I know it's about to get dark. >> Yeah. But you try to enter a fugue state at that point. [laughter]
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>> That's what you know what your three part I got to say. Let me just like let me let me brownnose you real quick.
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>> I really love your three-parters because they feel cinematic to me when I sit and
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listen to them. >> Oh, thank you. That's highest praise I could imagine. >> Let me wipe my nose off.
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>> I love that. Wipe your nose off. No, I appreciate that. Uh this one's going to
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be it's about Dennis Nelson, the kindly killer. He was referred to Feel like I recognize the name. Yeah, we we've
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definitely talked about him before. He's he's come up on Crime Countdown. Okay. >> Um he's a lot
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>> I bet. >> Um he's a lot part. >> He has many many victims >> and he's got a lot going on. Uh just as
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a quick little trigger warning, he um has necrophilic tendencies. Uh so so that's going to be part of
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this. >> He's not the vampire one, is he? >> Nope. >> Okay. No, >> just another guy.
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>> No, that's another guy. Like that's Isn't that wild that we're just like, "No, that's a whole other guy."
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>> Yep. Always a guy. >> Um, so we're gonna talk about him. And this uh this took place in the 80s. So
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>> So that usually that's a fun time for some other things like pop culture, but
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>> whenever anybody says anything is the '8s anymore, all I can hear is in my head saying it was the '8s.
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>> It was the '8s. >> Uh, so we'll start just get by giving a little overview. It was on the morning
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of February 8th, 1983, which I did not even realize. >> Yeah. >> That by the time when this comes out,
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it's going to be right before it. And then I think the second part will come out like the day after 9th or something.
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I didn't do that on purpose. >> That happened so frequently. >> I I did not do that on purp That's.
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That's so weird. >> That just I forget which case, but that just happened to me, too. And I just
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didn't reference it. >> It happens so often. >> Like that happened to me, too. >> I want you to know we literally never do
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that on purpose. never chosen a case based on the date being the date it'll come out.
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>> No, it's very strange. >> Yeah. >> So weird. One of those like anomalies. >> Yeah. So on that day, February 8th,
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1983, a plumber working in London's Muzell Hill neighborhood opened a drainage cover behind a Cranley Gardens
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apartment building. And in that drainage cover, he made a horrific discovery. The
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drain was completely blocked by pieces of bone and human tissue. >> Oh, [ __ ] So he called police.
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>> That's That's the best people to call. >> Yeah. And detectives arrived on the
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scene and they traced the blockage back to one apartment in the building. And when they went into this apartment,
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there were additional pieces of evidence in this apartment that suggested that things were exponentially worse than
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they had even originally thought they were. >> And they probably thought things were
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pretty bad originally. >> And that apartment building belonged to Dennis Nilson.
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>> That's crazy. I didn't expect that. Yeah, I know. It's twist. [laughter] >> Wait, the fact that they could trace
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like the drainage pipes back to them is nuts. Pipes are nuts. Pipes are crazy. >> I've been talking about pipes for all
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week. >> Pipes really go crazy. >> I had a pipe burst in my garage and I said, "Why is there even a [ __ ] pipe
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in my garage?" >> True. And you said, "I don't know. >> I don't know. Don't talk to me about
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[laughter] it." >> So, let's talk about Dennis Nilson. Who he was before he became this Dennis N.
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>> What happened to him? >> So, he was born November 23rd, 1945. Does that make him a Sagittarius?
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>> Yes. >> No. I think. >> Does it? Yeah. >> Yeah. I think it's literally like right.
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I think 21st starts Sagge. >> There we go. >> He's very close to being a scorp. >> Oh, okay.
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>> Hold on. Let me let me make sure cuz sometimes I'm dumb. >> Sometimes I'm dumb.
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>> Sometimes I'm dumb when it comes to the zodiac. I'm a new. >> You know, I've started another thing
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I've started to do. I think I've said this before, but I started doing it again cuz I fell back into it. Tell me.
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>> Um I've started when I like I'll do something or forget something in the house and I'm like, "You're so stupid.
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Like go get stop doing that." Okay, you're right. >> Stop doing that. You're right. Because I
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liter I did it yesterday. I was like, "Oh my god, I'm so dumb." And then I was like And literally, if anyone heard me
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doing this, they'd probably be like, "You're losing. Wow, you're I said, "No, you're not dumb. You just forgot that
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thing. That doesn't make you dumb." >> Okay, hold on, Ash. No, you're not dumb. You're still learning this and you're
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working on it actively. And actually, you were correct this time. >> Yeah, there you go.
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>> So, no, you're right. Because I saw um I saw an article. >> You saw an article that said
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>> You watched an article. I watched I watched an article that did say our brains believe what we tell them. So if
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you keep telling your brain you're dumb or you're fat or you're ugly or you're this or you're that
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>> it's going to believe it. >> It's going to be like wow I suck >> because your brain who is it going to
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believe? You like you're the one that it wants to believe. >> You think you're going to sound kooky. I
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looked at myself in the mirror the other day and I said you look beautiful today
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as you should. >> Yeah. So start doing that too. >> You absolutely should. I I truly believe
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like we need to be stop being so negative to ourselves because I think a lot of people who are complete [ __ ] ass
00:14:40
pieces of [ __ ] out in the world. Well, and also they're mean to themselves too.
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>> Yeah, absolutely. >> And they've taught themselves to be these like toxically negative people and
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they're like and it makes them feel like [ __ ] They've done it to themselves usually and then they put it out to
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everybody else. >> In the words of Rupaul, how the hell are you going to How are you going to love
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yourself? How in the hell are you going to love yourself if you can't? I don't know. RuPaul [laughter] said
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I've watched so much Drag Race. How did I I feel like the hell LGBT card [laughter]
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you said? I don't know. >> How in the hell are you going to love somebody else if you can't love Mikey?
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What does he say? Mikey. Mikey, help. >> Mikey, help. Gay help. What is What [laughter] does Rupaul say? How in the
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hell you gonna love somebody else if you cannot love yourself? >> No. [laughter] Why am I saying it so
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wrong? >> I'm looking at >> Are we straight right now? >> Mikey. >> Mikey, >> you can't love
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>> If you can't love yourself, how in the hell are you going to love somebody else? That's exactly it.
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>> Okay. >> Can I get an amen? >> Can I get an amen? Yeah. Oh my god. I don't deserve the amen. [laughter] Don't
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give it to me. Oh my lord. >> Oh my god. >> That was crazy. That was crazy. I just
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looked it up. I just did the [laughter] I just did the Capricorn thing and I said I'll look it up. Don't worry,
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>> guys. That was the opposite of a flow state. >> That was That was >> That was the opposite. Do you ever do
00:16:05
something like that and you say, "Do I have a cognitive issue?" >> Yes. All the time.
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>> I'm going to do a Sudoku later. Anyways. Anyways, >> the whole point of that was stop telling
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saying you're dumb and being mean to yourself. That's another piece of advice. Do that.
00:16:20
>> Yeah. >> Uh it's really hard right now. >> Do crosswords too of that. Holy [laughter] [ __ ] So, yeah. So, Dennis
00:16:25
Nielsen um was a Sagittarius and he was born that's where we >> [ __ ] [laughter] that's the
00:16:32
roundabout. >> That's where we started. >> And he was born in uh in Scotland. >> Oh, [ __ ] him for doing that,
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>> right? Like Scottish people don't do that. >> No, >> dick. >> That's not Scottish.
00:16:44
>> So, this he was the second of three children born to Elizabeth and Olaf Mokshim.
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>> Sorry, but it's always the middle child. Um they later adopted the surname Nilson.
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>> Got it. >> Uh they had met several years earlier um when Olaf saved Elizabeth from being
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attacked by another man. >> Wow, that's a great me. >> What a me cute. Yeah. >> Uh they started dating and very soon
00:17:05
after they were talking about marriage and on May 2nd, 1942, they married. >> Love.
00:17:10
>> Olaf and Elizabeth's first child was Olaf Jr. Uh he came a short time after they got married and he was followed
00:17:17
quickly by two other children, Dennis and Sylvia. Uh despite their whirlwind romance and growing family, Olaf Senior
00:17:25
never really took to the whole marriage and family life. So he was just frequently absent from home. Yeah. Uh he
00:17:32
that was either due to his responsibilities in the military or his general uninterest in being a father.
00:17:39
>> Okay. >> We're not sure which or it was an amalgamation. >> Kind of a little bit of both.
00:17:43
>> Okay. Um, as a result, Elizabeth continued to live with her parents and the children were raised as much by them
00:17:49
as by their mother. >> Well, that's kind of nice. I loved my grand. And I still do, in fact.
00:17:54
>> Yeah. Years later, when he reflected about his parents' marriage, Dennis wrote, cuz he did write a memoir, by the
00:18:01
way. >> Oh, no. >> Yeah. >> They always do. >> They always do. He wrote, "In the heat
00:18:06
and uncertainty of war, my father married my mother primarily on lustful grounds and ignoring some irreconcilable
00:18:13
cultural and personality differences which doomed the match to failure." >> Oh, [ __ ]
00:18:18
>> Which is like weirdly insightful. [laughter] Yeah, >> that is insightful. >> Although their father was hardly ever
00:18:24
home and really only saw the children on rare occasions, his presence, or maybe more his absence, was pretty influential
00:18:32
on the family. Mhm. >> Um the detached nature of Olaf and Elizabeth's relationship appears to have
00:18:38
filtered down to their children. Uh and it kind of prevented them not just forming a bond with their parents, but
00:18:43
with one another as well. >> Oh, yeah. This led to all the Nilson children, but Dennis in particular,
00:18:50
becoming very isolated and withdrawn. For Dennis, this meant spending hours alone every day, escaping into an
00:18:58
increasingly intense fantasy world. Uh, in fact, Nelson even described himself as quote,
00:19:04
"An an unhappy, brooding child, secretive and stricken with inferiority." >> Oh, that's horrifying.
00:19:12
>> Yeah. >> It's true that Dennis felt a very uh tenuous connection to his parents and
00:19:17
siblings, but the family wasn't entirely like fractured. >> Yeah. Because his grandparents were such
00:19:22
a constant presence in his early life, he formed a very big like very strong bond with his grandfather, Andrew White.
00:19:30
Unlike Dennis's mother, who was generally detached and permissive, Andrew was actually a harsh and deeply
00:19:37
religious man with an incredibly rigid sense of morality. >> Oh, I was relieved for like one second.
00:19:43
>> Well, the thing is when it came to his grandson, he was very warm and compassionate.
00:19:47
>> Okay. >> And it was really maybe the only connection Dennis had to the world outside his fantasies. And because of
00:19:54
this, Dennis was devastated when in the fall of 1951, 62year-old Andrew died from a heart
00:20:01
attack while he was on a fishing boat. >> That is so young. >> Yeah. In one of his earliest memories,
00:20:06
Nelson recalled being brought into the house during the funeral to view his grandfather's body.
00:20:11
>> Uh he said, "Grandd was wearing glasses and expensive long johns. He was barefooted and needed a shave. He looked
00:20:18
as if he was sleeping." >> Oh, that's really sad. Many years later, Dennis would trace his
00:20:23
pathology back to this event. Uh he wrote, "My troubles started there. It blighted my personality permanently.
00:20:30
I've spent all my emotional life searching for my grandfather. And in my formative years, no one was there to
00:20:35
take his place. Father and grandfather had walked out on me, probably for a better place, leaving me behind in this
00:20:42
not so good place alone." >> Oh man. >> Which if he wasn't such a complete piece
00:20:46
of [ __ ] you'd be like, "Oh my god, that's so sad." >> Yeah. You feel bad for the kid.
00:20:50
>> Exactly. In the wake of his grandfather's death, Dennis became much more isolated. He spent his free time by
00:20:56
the water watching the fishing boats come and go. And during one of these occasions, he claimed to have walked
00:21:02
into the ocean to try to end his life. >> Oh, [ __ ] >> But he was saved by an older boy who
00:21:07
spotted him from the beach and pulled him back to shore. Now, in his memoirs, he claimed that this savior of his
00:21:15
potentially sexually assaulted him. >> Oh. But because he was unconscious at the time, he was unable to provide any
00:21:22
details of the attack or his attacker. >> Okay. >> That said, Nilson himself acknowledges
00:21:29
his tendency to blend fantasy with memory. >> Uhhuh. >> And reality with not reality um when
00:21:38
recounting events from his life. So, it's kind of impossible to know which aspects of his early biography are true
00:21:45
and which are pieces he made up. Mhm. You know, >> yeah, that's tough. >> Um, not cuz they never were able to like
00:21:50
identify this person. They don't even know if he actually walked into the ocean.
00:21:54
>> Exactly. Right. >> It might have never happened. >> Okay. >> Now, not long after the death of his
00:21:58
father, Elizabeth married a second time to a man named Adam Scott. Adam Scott is
00:22:04
not the one that was on Parks and Recreation. >> Oh, I forgot that was Adam Scott.
00:22:09
>> Not Ben Wyatt. Uh, I was [laughter] I second guessed myself immediately. >> Oh, that's why I was confused. I was
00:22:15
like, "Is his name Adam?" You were talking his government name. >> Yeah, his government name, not Ben
00:22:19
Wyatt. >> Um, unlike her previous husband, Scott was a local man with strong connections
00:22:24
to the area and a solid work history in the building trade. He was, according to
00:22:29
author Brian Masters, quote, "A quiet, solid, and reliable man who gave her four more children in four years."
00:22:36
>> Okay. Wow. Yeah. A lot of kids >> getting busy. So, if Elizabeth Nilson had maintained a casual and detached
00:22:42
relationship to her children before her second marriage, she definitely doubled that marrying Scott. And
00:22:48
>> babe, why'd you have four more >> and adding four more children to the house?
00:22:51
>> Also, the additional kids in the house pushed Dennis further away from his mother and deeper into isolation.
00:22:57
>> Uh, he wrote, "In those days, I could hate Adam Scott very easily. I sometimes
00:23:01
felt that we, the Nilson kids, were an impediment to my mother's fulfillment in her new life and family."
00:23:07
>> It's a very common feeling. It is. As he grew older, Dennis was able to make a
00:23:11
few friends, but he still chose to spend a lot of his free time alone. When school ended every day, he would go
00:23:16
home, put on his headphones, and just lose himself in music for hours at a time, or he would go into the woods and
00:23:22
just go on long walks. Uh when he was 14, he joined Army Cadet Force, a military prep organization for teenage
00:23:29
boys. his participation in the group gave him a structure that he was definitely lacking at home and he gave
00:23:35
him kind of a sense of purpose in a life that was like a little chaotic at times.
00:23:40
>> He said, "I felt proud and useful in my battle dress." And he also tried to tried to become like he tried his hand
00:23:47
at sports basically too, but that didn't really pan out for him. >> Okay. >> So, it seemed like the military stuff
00:23:53
like was the thing that really tickled his fancy. >> Yeah. For the most part, his early life
00:23:58
was that kind of like most boys at the time. But an incident in his mid- teens would definitely disrupt that path of
00:24:05
normaly and provide some pretty serious consequences in his later life. I think >> one afternoon when Dennis was about 14,
00:24:13
a local elderly man from the village went missing and the whole town turned out to look for him. and Dennis and
00:24:20
another boy, Gordon Barry, decided to search down by the river Uji, where they eventually stumbled upon this old man's
00:24:26
body. The local doctor later said that in his confusion, the man had probably wandered out of his house in the middle
00:24:32
of the night and fallen into the river and drowned. >> Oh, that's so sad. >> Nilson said, "He reminded me of my
00:24:38
grandfather, and the images were firmly fixed in my mind. I could never comprehend the reality of death."
00:24:43
>> That's very standby me. >> Yeah. When he was 15, he decided to leave school and join the military. And
00:24:49
in September of 1961, he reported to London for duty. It was, he hoped, an opportunity for a fresh start to like
00:24:56
get away from this tiny village and all the limitations he felt were there and to learn a new trade that hopefully was
00:25:02
just going to carry him to adulthood. But if he was looking for like a whole new experience, which he definitely was,
00:25:09
he was definitely disappointed with the reality of army life, especially for someone so young.
00:25:14
>> Yeah. Rather than being sent off to some exotic location like he thought he would
00:25:18
be, Dennis and his peers spent the next four years stationed in Aldershot, a military town in Hampshire, New England.
00:25:24
So >> their life was pretty much the same as it had been when he before he left home
00:25:30
with military responsibilities, just replacing school work. Yeah. >> And his fellow soldiers replacing his
00:25:35
classmates. >> In 1964, he passed his exams and was promoted to the rank of private. um
00:25:41
which was an important step in what he thought was going to be a lifelong career in the military. And while this
00:25:47
was a momentous occasion for him, his entire experience in the military had been undermined by his growing awareness
00:25:53
of his own sexuality and his grow his his interest in men. >> Sure. >> Especially at the time period this this
00:26:00
was tough. >> Yeah. Not accepted and especially in the military back then. >> He was repressing everything though and
00:26:05
the repression and of those urges was always accompanied by like deep guilt and shame. Yeah.
00:26:11
>> Um, and he would carry that with him for a long time. He later said, "I was always afraid that I must somehow look
00:26:17
different and that my innermost thoughts would be exposed." >> Oh, that's sad. >> Which is so sad.
00:26:21
>> It is very sad. >> But he's such an [ __ ] Like it's that's it's like you see you hear these
00:26:26
things. And again, this was he's still a kid when this was. >> So you feel bad for like you said, feel
00:26:30
bad for the kid. >> And [snorts] as is often the case, Dennis was only able to conceal this for
00:26:35
so long. And in his mid20s, he was engaging in a lot of like, you know, one night stands with with men, just like
00:26:42
quick anonymous sexual encounters. >> It's like you're I mean, you're living your life and you're you have to
00:26:47
>> people have needs. You can't just deny yourself forever. >> And he was he made sure they were devoid
00:26:51
of a lot of emotion or attachment because that was kind of his life up until that moment.
00:26:56
>> So common, too. >> And this is this works for some people, of course, but for Dennis, it was
00:27:01
different. He'd always been a loner and he had created this rich fantasy life in
00:27:06
which the needs and wants of others were irrelevant. >> His were the important ones.
00:27:10
>> Okay. >> Now, as an adult, it was as though he was blurring fantasy and reality,
00:27:15
treating the real people he came in contact with who came and went in his life as though they were dolls that he
00:27:21
could just act out life on. >> And that's frankly disturbing. >> And then he could just put them away
00:27:27
when he was done. >> And life does not work like that. Oh, in the fall of 1972, his career in the
00:27:33
military came to an end when he was discharged after 11 years. >> Wow. >> Uh the following day, he turned 27 years
00:27:40
old and found himself right back where he started. >> That's crazy. Like almost all of your
00:27:44
20s just gone and then you're asked to start a new life or expected to. >> Yeah. Now he was living in his mother's
00:27:50
house, unemployed, and alone again. His decision to leave the military was pretty simple. He just wanted to try a
00:27:56
career outside the army. >> Yeah. But now that he was out, he kind of felt like unmed, like, "Where do I
00:28:01
go?" >> I That happened so often. >> Yeah. For 5 weeks, he sat in his mother's house wondering what the [ __ ]
00:28:06
to do with his life. And his mother, on the other hand, was more concerned with his lack of interest in finding a wife.
00:28:12
Uh, a short time later, Dennis's brother, Olaf, Olaf Jr. >> told their mother that he suspected
00:28:19
Dennis was gay. >> And this speculation, no. And this speculation, Dennis would never forgive
00:28:25
him for. >> Yeah, I'd be pretty [ __ ] out other people. >> But if she believed it was true,
00:28:31
Dennis's mother never said anything to him about it, preferring instead to just ignore it and let Dennis have his
00:28:37
private thoughts and that was it. >> Also not healthy. >> No. Olaf's speculation about his
00:28:42
brother's sexuality ruined their relationship entirely. It just wasn't something that was able to be recovered.
00:28:48
>> That's really sad. >> It is sad. In December 1972, he moved to London and enrolled at the Metropolitan
00:28:54
Police Training School. Uh he was determined to parlay his pretty exemplary military service into a career
00:29:00
in law enforcement now, which is a pretty like, you know, lateral move. >> Yeah. Uh Dennis completed his training
00:29:06
in April 1973 and entered the Metropolitan Police Force as a junior cadet, which is an entry- level position
00:29:13
that while technically a member of the police force was more like admin [ __ ] >> and required the supervision of a parent
00:29:19
officer. >> So you got to like work your way up the ladder. And when he enrolled in the
00:29:23
training program, he envisioned finding the same level of camaraderie that he loved in the service. Like his military
00:29:29
brothers and sisters were like BFFs. >> Yeah. >> But he learned that the police force
00:29:33
wasn't built around friendships. >> And he found himself lonely and isolated again.
00:29:39
>> Throughout his youth, he had dealt with frequent isolation and loneliness by retreating into his fantasy world. And
00:29:45
in his efforts to avoid loneliness, he started exploring, you know, the countless pubs and nightclubs around
00:29:51
London, uh, where he eventually discovered that, you know, that the culture that he could exist in as he
00:29:57
was, like the gay culture, right? >> And in the small number of gay bars around the city, he kind of felt like he
00:30:03
had found somewhere. >> Uh, for the first time in his life, he didn't have to hide who he really was
00:30:08
from the world. But his unrealistic expectations made his early experiences with this community deeply
00:30:14
disappointing, >> right? >> He wasn't finding a lot of long-term relationship prospects here
00:30:19
>> because he wasn't really looking for that or treating people that way. >> Well, it's like he kind he like wanted
00:30:23
it, but he wasn't treating people that way. So, it's like he wanted that. He just wasn't he didn't seem to know how
00:30:29
to go about it. >> Yeah. Um, and for a man with such a deep and powerful fear of abandonment, the
00:30:34
casual like culture of like hookups and one night stands that he was involving himself in now, especially in the early
00:30:41
'7s. Do >> some damage, >> that was like the thing, it proved very destabilizing and demoralizing for him.
00:30:47
>> Yeah. >> Uh, he wrote in his memoir, "I was left with an endless search through the soul
00:30:51
destroying pub scene and its resulting one night stands. A house is not a home and sex is not a relationship. We would
00:30:57
only lend each other our bodies in a vain search for inner peace. >> Wow. >> I don't know. It's like he comes off
00:31:03
[laughter] so like so like uh deep. >> Yeah. Now, during his first year with the police force, he was developing um
00:31:11
like an identity and a philosophy that was very much at odds with his professional life. Throughout his time
00:31:17
in the military, he had developed a pretty progressive leftist worldview that made it pretty impossible to ignore
00:31:24
the per imperialistic nature of the British military. Oh, >> okay. >> That was at least partially what
00:31:29
motivated him to not seek a second term in the army. He was like, I just don't think it it doesn't align with my
00:31:34
beliefs. >> Now, as a young police officer, he was kind of in the same position, enforcing
00:31:39
laws that seemed outdated and targeting groups that he himself was a part of. >> Right. To make matters worse, in August
00:31:45
1974, he received word that his father, Olaf, Senior, had died at the UK military base in Ghana. He had left his
00:31:52
children a bit of money, but that was it. Given how disillusioned he was with his circumstances, he waited until the
00:31:58
end of the year, and in December, he quit his position with the police force. >> Okay.
00:32:03
>> Now, leaving the police force at the end of the year was intended to be a big
00:32:07
life change that would set him on the right path. Unfortunately, it turned out to be just another exercise in
00:32:13
disappointment. When the f when the money his father left him started to run out, he was forced to go out and find
00:32:19
whatever job he could, which at the time was not really easy. He ended up working
00:32:24
a series of pretty unfulfilling jobs. You know, he worked at a job center. He just did things that like he were not
00:32:30
his passion at all. >> Yeah. >> It was there that Nilson would have another powerful experience that in
00:32:36
retrospect would have sinister undertones. Oh, >> while working at the job center in 1975,
00:32:43
Dennis met a young man named David Painter, who came in looking for work. During his visit, Painter mentioned he
00:32:49
was currently out of work and without a place to stay. At the time, there were no jobs for the young man, so he left
00:32:54
without anything. A few days later, however, Dennis ran into Painter on the street by chance.
00:33:00
>> And knowing his circumstances, he invited David Painter back to his apartment. What Dennis didn't know at
00:33:06
the time was that David was only 17 years old and had run away from home and was reported missing by his parents.
00:33:13
>> Oh, [ __ ] >> When they got to Nelson's apartment, the two watched a movie, had several drinks,
00:33:18
and then Painter be became tired, and went to Nelson's bed to lay down. >> Mhm. >> Misreading that situation, Dennis
00:33:26
followed and tried to engage in sex with David Painter. Mhm. >> Uh so he David immediately rejected him
00:33:33
and was like, "Nope, that's not what I was doing." >> Yeah. >> And eventually Nelson gave up. And a few
00:33:38
hours later, >> the eventually >> Yeah. Uh exactly. Very telling. >> A few hours later, Painter awoke to find
00:33:45
Dennis standing over him with a video camera filming him while he slept. >> What the [ __ ]
00:33:50
>> The details that of what happened next are pretty murky but and like kind of confusing. But when he woke to the
00:33:57
camera in his face, he was clearly naturally very frightened and upset >> and tried to leave the apartment.
00:34:03
>> And Nilson tried to stop him, but David apparently, according to uh Nilson, became aggressive and began trashing the
00:34:11
apartment, >> which I think he was probably fighting to get out of the apartment.
00:34:15
>> Yeah. >> He cut his himself on a glass partition in the process. >> Oh, wow. >> It was only then that Dennis finally
00:34:21
called the police in an ambulance. >> Okay. when he was interviewed by police at the same station, by the way, that
00:34:27
he'd worked as an officer. >> Later that afternoon, he feigned ignorance, claiming that the young man,
00:34:32
quote, went berserk for no clear reason. >> That usually happens, >> although it seems highly unlikely that
00:34:39
nothing happened in Dennis's apartment. David Painter's parents were reluctant to press charges, and the police were
00:34:45
satisfied that if nothing else, Painter hadn't been sexually assaulted. So the whole thing ended that afternoon with
00:34:51
Dennis being let off with a warning. >> You have to wonder if he was sexually assaulted.
00:34:56
>> And I wonder if his parents didn't want to press charges cuz they just didn't
00:34:59
want him involved in what they assumed was >> something unourred. Yeah. >> You know,
00:35:05
>> now obviously most people don't end up going home with someone who ends up being a prolific serial killer.
00:35:11
>> No. >> Luckily, >> thankfully. Um, and in the context of Dennis Nilson's life and later murderous
00:35:17
activities, that incident, even though it wasn't viewed as bad enough, quote unquote, to press charges at the time,
00:35:23
it can be viewed as a like precontemplative phase. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Where he's beginning to explore these
00:35:29
darker fantasies and considering whether or not to act on them. Yeah, definitely.
00:35:33
>> This was clearly an escalation, a slight one. >> Uhhuh. Now, while there's evidence to
00:35:39
indicate Nilson was at least considering his predatory impulses at the time, the
00:35:44
period between 1975 and 1977 was a lot of like personal growth and contentment for him,
00:35:50
>> which is interesting. >> Yeah. After a few years of, you know, one night stands and hookups and casual
00:35:55
sex, Dennis met David Galachan in November 1975, and by the end of their first night drinking together at the
00:36:03
bar, he and David agreed to move in together. >> Wow. very quick. Using what remained of
00:36:08
the money left him by his father, Dennis and David found a small apartment on Melrose Avenue in London. And Dennis
00:36:14
even worked it out so that would have exclusive use of the garden and patio in the back of the house.
00:36:18
>> Nice. Oh no. Hate that actually. >> Yeah, it's not great. Dennis had finally found someone with who he could spend
00:36:25
his nights. >> Not long after moving in together, they got a dog, a black and white mut they
00:36:30
named Bleep. >> Bleep. [laughter] >> Yes. >> Stop. >> That's actually hilarious. I don't want
00:36:35
them to have a dog. >> And they spent their days working on the garden and their nights watching films
00:36:39
and listening to music. >> Oh, I hate how lovely this is. >> Yeah, it seemed at least to Dennis as
00:36:45
though he'd finally locked into a stable relationship. >> Okay. >> Things though, they might have only been
00:36:51
in his head that it was like that. >> What? >> According to author Brian Masters,
00:36:55
quote, "The relationship was nonetheless fragile because it was relentlessly artificial." Oh. as he'd done with
00:37:02
several other men before for much shorter period of times. Dennis had built up this relationship with David
00:37:08
into something it almost certainly was not. Um although it was true they did share an apartment and occasionally they
00:37:14
slept together. According to Masters, quote, "There was no deep bond of affection between them and David was
00:37:20
remote and uninterested." >> Did they get a dog named Bleep? >> They did. >> Oh.
00:37:25
>> In truth, David and Dennis's relationship was one of convenience. Dennis paid most of the bills and made
00:37:31
all the decisions and David continued carrying on other relationships with other people.
00:37:35
>> Oh no. >> That the relationship lasted two years. It was due in large part to the fact
00:37:40
that David had such a passive personality that he was willing to go along with whatever Dennis wanted most
00:37:45
of the time. It was just kind of like whatever. It was more like roommates >> with benefits a little bit.
00:37:51
>> That's rough. >> But Dennis saw it as like >> this beautiful domestic life. Despite
00:37:57
this, not a lot of relationships can last without 100% effort and commitment. Yeah. Um, and it wasn't just that David
00:38:04
contributed far less to the household than Dennis or that he continued to see other men. There was also the fact that
00:38:10
the two shared very little in common. >> And according to Dennis, David was quote, according to Dennis, David was
00:38:16
quote, inferior intellectually and dependent socially. >> That's rude. >> Yeah. By the summer of 1977, both men
00:38:24
had begun seeing other people and barely spoke to each other when they were at home.
00:38:27
>> Oh wow. >> Finally, in late summer, it had become clear that this was coming to an end.
00:38:31
>> Yeah. >> According to David, he simply packed up his bags one night and left in search of
00:38:36
somewhere new. >> Said, "Peace out." >> In his version of events, Dennis says that he insisted that David move out.
00:38:42
It's unclear which one of these is accurate, but because of Dennis's really deep fears of abandonment and his
00:38:49
propensity for fantasy and embellishment, it's entirely possible that he created his complete own
00:38:54
narrative just to protect himself from the psychological pain of this whole thing.
00:38:58
>> Yeah. Damn, this is [ __ ] tragic. >> In the months that followed this, Dennis
00:39:02
filled most of his time with work, working his regular job at the employment center and picking up shifts
00:39:08
with a catering company. And when he wasn't working, he could be found at one of the local pubs. But if he hoped
00:39:13
either of these things were going to improve his life, he quickly learned otherwise. The bars were still full of
00:39:18
people who seemed pretty uninterested in having a relationship with him. And at both jobs, his employers frowned upon
00:39:24
his politics and, you know, life in general. Yeah. >> And as a result, he was just let down by
00:39:30
everything. Feeling aimless, he applied to the branch chairman school in the fall of 1978, and he felt very at home
00:39:37
there in the intellectual and political circles of academia. At 33 years old, he
00:39:42
was somewhat older than the other students, but his passion for intellectual subjects and politics made
00:39:48
him fit right in. The new environment of school was exciting, but it did little to curb his loneliness. He was still
00:39:54
cripplingly lonely. >> Yeah. During this time, Dennis had many one night stands, but every time he met
00:40:02
someone that he even had a little bit of interest in like a long-term relationship with, they just rebuffed
00:40:08
him. >> Oh, that's >> just wasn't working out. >> He was clearly offputting. >> I was going to say clearly [laughter]
00:40:14
>> you got to there's got to be something up there. >> These disappointments caused Dennis to
00:40:18
retreat deeper into his fantasies each time. >> Yeah. >> Which by then had grown very dark. Well,
00:40:25
you have to wonder, and this is obviously just speculative, but he becomes a necrophiliac and a serial
00:40:31
killer. >> I do wonder if some of these one night stands the there had to have been some
00:40:36
off-putting sexual tendencies or something like that. >> For sure. >> For for there to not be repeat nights,
00:40:42
you know? >> Exactly. Yeah. >> And >> and of course that's speculative, but >> but it kind of makes sense. And
00:40:48
>> Dennis had a like fetish for deaths. >> Yeah. like he was very interested in it.
00:40:55
>> That could make sex weird. >> It could for sure. >> But by this time, he had stopped
00:40:59
resisting this and he started indulging it. >> Okay. >> He said later, "I put tulk on my face to
00:41:06
erase the living color. I smeared charcoal under my eyes to accentuate a hollow dark look. I lie staring eyed on
00:41:13
the bed in front of the mirror and let my saliva foam and drip from my mouth. I step outside myself in detached
00:41:20
imagination." That might be the darkest [ __ ] you've ever said to me. >> Yeah. >> What the actual [ __ ]
00:41:30
>> That's like some [ __ ] out of a horror movie. >> And he would just do this >> a lot. That wasn't just a one time
00:41:36
thing. >> No, >> even a one-time thing I cannot get past. >> And fantasy wasn't the only place that
00:41:42
he was starting to experiment with like risky and like interesting behavior. He'd also started creating dangerous
00:41:49
situations where he could rescue his sexual partners from danger. >> Oh, which is very interesting because
00:41:55
that's how his father and mother got together, >> right? >> Yeah. >> One night in late fall 1978, after
00:42:02
inviting three men back to his house for a drink. >> Damn, >> I know. >> [ __ ] sharpshooter there.
00:42:07
>> Yeah, he's he's hedging his bets, I guess. Dennis waited until all three had passed out before placing his winter
00:42:14
jacket on the stove and setting it on fire. After he gathered up his dog and went out into the garden, the apartment
00:42:22
filled up with smoke. When the men woke up, Dennis burst back into the apartment, putting out the small fire
00:42:28
and opening all the windows, appearing to have saved their lives. >> What the [ __ ]
00:42:32
>> Yeah. >> Almost like, damn. You're going to risk your apartment just to be a hero?
00:42:37
>> Just to be a hero? That's a complex and a half. >> And in retrospect, these dark fantasies
00:42:42
and risky behaviors would be seen as clear indicators that Nelson was spiraling deeper into something bad
00:42:48
>> big time. >> He later said, "I was becoming depressed and conditioned to a belief that I was
00:42:52
impossible to live with." But rather than seek any kind of medical or psychological help, he found a new way
00:42:58
to cope with his stress anxiet anxiety while also indulging his fantasies. I >> feel like it's probably not good. By the
00:43:04
end of December, his isolation and loneliness had become unbearable. And on the night of December 30th, he mustered
00:43:10
the energy to get dressed and headed out to a local pub. After spending weeks alone in his apartment, feeling sorry
00:43:16
for himself, he was very vulnerable and precarious emotionally. >> Uhhuh. >> And just in general,
00:43:23
>> and he was also desperate to find someone to just stop the negative thoughts that were running through his
00:43:27
head. And on top of that, he was certain that anyone that he met that night was just going to leave him.
00:43:32
>> Yeah. like he just didn't want people to leave him. That's all. It's very um Jeffrey Dmered.
00:43:38
>> And he later said that night things began to go terribly and horribly wrong. >> I think they had already started.
00:43:44
>> They certainly did. Rather than visit one of his usual bars, he went to a different one. He went to Crinklewood,
00:43:49
the Criclewood Arms, which was an Irish bar near his apartment. He sat there and
00:43:54
he drank pint after pint of Guinness >> and he spent the first hour. I know. I love Guinness. Uh Dennis spent the first
00:44:01
hour or so of the night watching people in the bar, just kind of like chatting with whoever sat down next to him, but
00:44:06
not really making any attempt for big conversation. Eventually, he found himself talking with a young Irishman
00:44:12
who introduced himself as Steven. >> Years later, Nelson would tell police police he had quote no idea who this
00:44:18
youth was. >> As this really is very Jeffrey Tom. >> Yeah. As Steven had no identification on
00:44:25
him at the time or anything to indicate who he was or where he'd come from. That
00:44:29
said, he wouldn't have needed a driver's license or some other ID to tell that who he was talking to was still very
00:44:35
much a teenager. >> He looked it. >> E. >> Uh, he was Steven Holmes, a 14-year-old
00:44:41
runaway from Kilburn. >> Oh, god. A baby. >> Yeah. >> Steven had been out at a rockabilly
00:44:46
concert that night and was waiting for a bus outside the Criclewood Arms when he
00:44:50
decided to go inside to get warm. Nelson convinced Steven to come back to his apartment where they spent a few hours
00:44:56
drinking and listening to music until the boy passed he passed out on Nelson's bed. Um though Dennis swore there was no
00:45:03
sexual contact between them. He said quote I snuggled up to him and put my arm around him. Then he pulled the
00:45:09
blanket down and looked at the boy who was undressed. >> Sexual contact. >> He said I remember thinking that because
00:45:16
it was morning he would wake and leave me. >> Oh no. Dennis looked down at the pile of
00:45:21
clothes on the floor beside the bed and spotted his neck tie. He said, "I remember thinking that I wanted him to
00:45:27
stay with me over the new year whether he wanted to or not." >> "Oh, fuck." >> Dennis reached down and picked up the
00:45:33
tie and then he slowly and carefully ran it underneath Steven's neck. He said, "I
00:45:39
quickly straddled him and pulled tight for all I was worth." At that moment, Steven awoke with a jolt, obviously
00:45:46
struggling, and they to they fell to the floor. But Nilson ended up on top of him
00:45:50
again. And unfortunately, Holmes was no match for his very much adult attacker, and with a minute or two, he lost
00:45:56
consciousness again. Aware that he could wake up at any moment now, Nielson went
00:46:01
to the kitchen and filled a bucket with water, he returned to the other room, dragged Steven over to the bucket on the
00:46:08
floor, and held him by his hair, pushing his head under the water and held it there until he couldn't see bubbles
00:46:13
anymore. >> Oh my god. >> Once once Steven was dead, Nelson dragged his body over to a chair and propped him up
00:46:23
in a seat. And then he said, "I just sat there shaking, trying to think clearly about what I had just done."
00:46:30
It was still early in the morning, so everything's quiet, but he knew everybody was going to wake up in a
00:46:36
matter of hours. What am I going to do? So, he spent the next hour or so cleaning up the room where the murder
00:46:42
had occurred. Then, he moved Steven's body to the bathtub, where he carefully washed the entire body before putting it
00:46:48
back in bed. Ew. All the while, he was fully expecting a knock at the door, certain that someone
00:46:56
had traced Steven back to his apartment. When a few days passed and he's kept Steven's body
00:47:03
>> and that no one ever came, Nielson's anxiety eased and he said there appeared
00:47:08
to be no reports in the paper of the missing boy or the usual public anxiety that followed the disappearance of a
00:47:13
child. >> It was only then that it occurred to Dennis that he'd gotten away with it.
00:47:18
>> Yeah, that's not good. With the act of murder now behind him in the natural process of decomposition having set in.
00:47:24
>> Uhhuh. >> Dennis grew disinterested in the body of his former guests and concluded that he
00:47:29
needed to get rid of it. >> His former guest. >> At first, he thought it would be easiest
00:47:33
to disarticulate the limbs and break down the body by boiling it. >> Oh my god. >> So, he went so far as to buy a large
00:47:41
electric carving knife in a stockp for this purpose. But when he got home, it occurred to him that that was going to
00:47:47
be pretty arduous, that task. >> This is so gnarly. >> And he said it would he felt like it
00:47:52
would be beyond his capabilities. And he said it was also unlikely to produce the
00:47:56
desired result that he's looking for. Instead, he pulled up several floorboards in the kitchen of his
00:48:02
apartment and found the space beneath to be pretty big and actually pretty cool in temperature.
00:48:08
Perfect place to put a body. >> Oh. So, after dressing Steven in the clothes that he had come to the
00:48:13
apartment in, Dennis lowered his body into the space under the floor and put the boards back. And now he's got a
00:48:18
makeshift tomb for Steven under his kitchen. >> What the [ __ ] >> A week passed and and Dennis's curiosity
00:48:25
finally got the better of him. >> No. No. Don't you say that to me. >> I wondered if his body had changed at
00:48:31
all or if he had continued to decompose. So he pulled up the boards and removed Steven's body from beneath the floor to
00:48:38
find that to his great surprise very little decomposition had occurred. >> That'd be very cool.
00:48:43
>> It seemed that the conditions under the floor were such that the natural processes of decomp had been stalled.
00:48:50
Seeing the body in that state, and this is a trigger warning, Dennis was excited
00:48:55
by this, and he violated Steven's body multiple times before returning it to the space beneath the floor where it
00:49:02
would stay, being periodically taken out for 8 months. 8 months? Eight months. How [ __ ] cold was it? I don't think
00:49:14
it stayed in great condition. Oh my god. Yeah. Now, in the months after this or the
00:49:23
month after this, >> months. What the [ __ ] brother? >> So, in the month after this, Dennis kept
00:49:29
a pretty low profile. He went to work, occasionally went to the bars, but mostly he stayed at home and and avoided
00:49:35
inviting anyone back to his apartment. >> Gee, I wonder why. >> At times, he said he considered turning
00:49:40
himself in and confessing. >> I doubt it. >> But the thought of spending the rest of
00:49:44
his life in jail was enough to deter him from doing that. Besides, he had no intention of doing anything like that
00:49:49
ever again. So, he said, "You know what? I I [ __ ] up." >> I don't think you can just like live the
00:49:55
rest of your life. >> Yeah. He was like, "You know what? I'm not going to do it again."
00:49:59
>> That like once you do that once, I don't think you necessarily stop doing that.
00:50:04
>> So, he continued to live his low-key life for several months until the secret
00:50:08
under his floorboards became a little too much to bear, at least in his own mind. One night in October 1979, he
00:50:14
pulled up the floorboards in the kitchen and removed the desiccated body of Steven from the hiding space and carried
00:50:20
it out to the back garden under the cover of darkness. There he had built a small bonfire and he placed Steven
00:50:26
Holmes's body into the bonfire and stood and watched the flames engulf every part
00:50:32
that it would. >> Oh my god. Once the fire had burned away all it was capable of destroying, he put
00:50:37
the fire out and removed the remaining bone fragments and he buried that in the backyard.
00:50:43
Maybe it was because he'd rid himself of his terrible secret um under the floorboards of the kitchen. Or maybe he
00:50:48
just lost his ability to control his clear impulses here. Whatever the case, within a month of destroying Steven
00:50:55
Holmes's remains, Dennis seemed to have forgotten his promise to himself about not committing another violent act. had
00:51:02
a feeling. Had a feeling and we're going to end there for part one. >> That's probably good. Part two is going
00:51:07
to be rough. >> All right. >> Um, this was rough, obviously, but >> horrific. >> It's going to be rough.
00:51:15
>> Why is he called the kindly killer? >> Um, >> do we do we get into that? >> We will get into that. Yeah.
00:51:21
>> Interesting. >> Yeah, cuz nothing about this so far is kindly No. >> All right. What's your fun fact for me,
00:51:27
Boyd? One in 18 people have a third nipple. >> Wow. >> It's called polythelia and it's caused by a mutation in
00:51:36
inactive genes. >> How many one in 18? >> One in 18. That's a lot. >> A lot of people.
00:51:41
>> Yeah. >> What you guys doing out here with your third nipple? >> Right. What you What you doing out here?
00:51:46
>> Damn. Is it easy to have a nipple removed? I wonder. >> I don't know. Like I wonder if you have
00:51:51
a third nipple if you can just get it removed. >> I don't know. Do you have a third
00:51:56
nipple? Everybody let us know. I don't, you know, let us know. I don't, but I would love to hear.
00:52:01
>> Think about like like dinner parties or like at a wedding probably like two people there have a third nipple.
00:52:07
>> I didn't know where you were going with that. And for a second I thought you were being like imagine at a dinner
00:52:11
party you just like have a third nipple. Like I [laughter] was like what? No, I meant Imagine I was think I was saying
00:52:16
like large gathering like wow like >> couple of these people have a third nipple
00:52:21
>> potentially. Yeah. One in 18 seems nuts. >> That is crazy. >> I don't know about that. I'm saying,
00:52:25
>> but you say it's a fact. >> So, get crazy out here with your third nipple. >> Get crazy.
00:52:32
>> We hope you do. We hope you keep listening >> and we hope you >> keep it weird.
00:52:37
>> Keep it so weird that you tell us if you have a third nipple. I'd like to know is
00:52:41
if you're willing to share. >> It's weird in a cool way. >> Yeah. Rock on with your third nipple.
00:52:44
[laughter] >> With your bad self. >> With your bad. >> With your third nipple self.
00:52:50
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