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Hey weirdos. I'm Elena. >> I'm Ash. >> And this is Morbid. [music] Yeah. >> Morbid. It's a part two. [music]
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>> Part two. And we're one day closer to a Twilight episode. >> Yes. which we will desperately need
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after this. >> I know. Actually, that'll be like perfect. We get a Twilight episode which
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will be coming out on the 14th and >> 14th because you guys said if you don't do that Twilight episode that you
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mentioned, we will revolt in the streets. >> You guys said you were going to beat us
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up and twist us upside down and steal our lunch money. >> Exactly. And we said don't have to tell
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me twice. >> We said fine. I'm very excited for our Twilight bonus. And it's a bonus
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episode. It's not a regular episode. >> It's a bonus episode. Calm down. >> Just in case that wasn't clear.
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>> Honestly, I think everybody is excited anyway. Um, well, I'm so excited for that. I can't even say too many things
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because then I'll just start talking about it and it will just be the episode. >> We got to save it all.
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>> We also have a super special guest that's going to be on the show next week slash this week.
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>> This week, Thursday. [laughter] What is time? Um, >> what is time? >> And you know, you'll just hear that when
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you hear it, but we love this guest. She's great. And I am excited to see her again.
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>> I'm very excited to see her again. It's going to be really fun. >> It's going to be super fun. It's going
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to be so fun. You know what's not fun? >> What? >> Richard Spec. >> Not fun at all. Yeah,
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>> that is not fun at all. >> Uh-uh. >> He's horrible. >> Yeah, part one really rocked my [ __ ]
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>> Yeah, I figure part one there was just a lot to take in. >> Yeah, there was a lot. There was much.
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>> It's a brutal crime. It's an unbelievable crime. And he's a a sad, pathetic person.
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>> Yeah, he really >> is also evil and dastardly and >> irredeemable. >> Truly. I think irredeemable is a perfect
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word to describe him. >> Great adjective. You little writer over there. >> Thank you.
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>> What do you write books or something? >> I do. Tinyurl.com/the butcher in their
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own. Don't go there. It doesn't exist. >> I was going to say it's not a thing anymore.
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>> I just like to say it. It's called a vocal stem. Look it up. >> I do love that. So many vocal stems.
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>> Oh yeah. >> So many. Another one is and Honey the Land. >> Honey the land. People keep messaging me
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Honey the bangs because I cut bangs. >> I love that. >> I know. I was like, I don't think we
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could do Honey the Land merch because it's not our quote, >> but I was like, could we do like Honey
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the Land-S? I like that >> in memoriam. >> In memoriam of silver brown. >> Probably not.
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>> Silva Brown. >> Silva Brown. >> Silver Brown. >> It's That's how you say it quick. Silva
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Brown. >> Silver Brown. around. >> Um, >> yeah, I don't think we can do that, but
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>> No, but we can keep saying it, >> but we'll continue to say it >> and you guys can keep saying it because
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it's funny. >> I might put that on my grave someday. >> Honey the lamb. >> Honey the grave. [laughter]
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>> I say it about everything now. >> Yeah, you got to. >> Um, so when we, you know, when we left
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you in Pat one, Richard Speck had done some awful [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> He had killed these women, by the way,
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were like between the ages of like 21 and 23. young. Their careers are just starting
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>> right before graduation too. They were like months away, like weeks away. >> And to think all the work that they had
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put into that >> for the rest of their lives. >> Mhm. >> And this is how it ends. It just pisses
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me off. >> And to think that some of them had escaped like very dangerous situations
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in different countries >> to come here to be safe. Yeah. And then they meet this [ __ ] nasty little
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[ __ ] [ __ ] goblin, >> Richard Speck. like, oh, he's so gross. So, when we last left you, that that's
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what happened. They they had though ended up finding a lead through like a very interesting little avenue of like
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having to take some resources from different parts that were not just the direct Chicago Police Department.
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>> Very boots on the ground. >> Very boots on the ground. Very on the ground. And it was the robbery squad
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that was the one that ended up having the kooky contacts to make this happen. >> Not the kooky contacts. And it was also
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people not taking out the trash, which is pretty sick. >> That happens so frequently. I I never
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know when they are going to take my trash. >> If you question if if you're sitting
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there and your gut says, you know what, I don't feel like taking out that trash today. Don't do it cuz I think it's
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telling you something. >> Everything happens for a reason. >> Yeah. And they had through this whole
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little um process of, you know, going to this mechanic who deals with a lot of petty criminals and then finding out
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that this guy had been in there who was a dick face to him and had left two of his bags there. They were able to follow
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that to the NMU, which is a union um for like people who work on like ships and boats and [ __ ] and they can get them
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assignments and jobs. They ended up going there. The guy, the administrator there was like, "Oh yeah, I think I
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remember a guy like that." We had sent him on a job. He didn't get it. He was pissed. He wrote down all of his [ __ ]
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information and crumpled it up and put it in the trash because he was a piece of [ __ ] and didn't deserve a goddamn job
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to begin with. >> I know. I love that. He didn't even get a job. >> He just threw that [ __ ] right in the
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trash. And then he was able to pick up that crumpled piece of paper and say, "Well, actually, his name is Richard
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Bspec and here's a direct line to his sister Carolyn who he is living with currently."
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>> Hey, >> and we told you that Carolyn was the one I don't know. >> She's his big sister. I I don't know
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>> what happened. >> But she just, you know, she's trying to she she took him in. She was trying to
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to help him out. >> Don't make me mad at Caroline. >> And just, you know, I think she just I
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think she wanted him to be a better person than he was. >> She had blinders on. >> I think she had a lot of blinders on.
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So, he's living there right now. He's currently drinking. He's still getting into trouble. He had promised her he was
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going to be a better person and he just wasn't. So based on what detectives had learned from that administrator at the
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NMU, they knew that that's where he was staying. And from the look of things, he
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was trying to get out of the city as fast and as soon as possible because who they talked to, this guy was looking to
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get on a boat and he was looking to go to New Orleans. >> Yeah. >> It certainly helped that they now had a
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name to go with the detailed description from Kora and now the sketch made by a police sketch artist. But they still had
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to tread carefully when it came to releasing this information to the press. Now, earlier that year, the US Supreme
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Court's decision in Miranda versus Arizona, you might know it. I think I've heard of it. It had cast a spotlight on
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police abuses of power during criminal interviewing. And both the district attorney and investigators on the case
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worried that if they posted the sketch in the paper or mentioned Spec by name, that might be cause for the case to be
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completely thrown out in court. Yeah. >> Because they just Yeah. that nailed it.
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Yeah. What they needed was some piece of evidence that conclusively connected Spec to the murders and made him an
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irrefutable suspect. >> Now, at the NMU office, investigators decided to set a trap
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>> to try to lure Spec to the officer where they could take him into custody. >> Okay.
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>> The administrator placed a call to Carolyn's apartment, his big sister, where they spoke to her husband, who
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informed them that he hadn't seen Richard all day. >> Okay. The administrator asked the man to
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relay a message to Richard telling him they had a job for him on the Sinclair Great Lakes, but they needed him to come
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into the office as soon as possible. >> Smart. >> So, the trap is laid, and a large number
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of undercover officers waited in the NMU office, posing as sailors. >> I love a trap.
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>> And they waited anxiously for their suspect to arrive cuz they knew that he he's probably their guy.
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>> Yeah. I mean, everything is lining up too perfectly. Now, while detectives work to lure Spec into the NMU office,
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analysts at the Chicago Police Department have been doing their best to track down Speck's fingerprints. If they
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were able to find a set of prints, they hoped they could match them to the prints found in the townhouse, and that
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would allow them to publicly identify him as a suspect and release his name in the sketch.
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>> Yeah. >> As luck would have it, the FBI headquarters that Specs Prince were on
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file from an earlier arrest. >> Oh. Oh. >> In Texas, so they already had them. But
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in a time before fax, machines, and email, the only way to get the prints from Washington DC to Chicago was either
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drive them or send them by air. >> Oh man. >> At the time, there was an ongoing airline strike across the country,
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>> and flights out of DC were grounded until further notice, putting investigators in a pretty tough pickle.
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>> Yeah. >> Back at the NMU office, the phone rang just a little after 5:00 p.m. And when
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the administrator answered, it was Richard Speck calling about the job. Oh god, >> this man just murdered eight women and
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now he's like, "A job, you say? >> Thanks. I'm I'm getting out of here." >> The man reiterated the details. It was a
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last minute job in the Sinclair Great Lakes. And if Speck wanted the work, he needed to come down to the office that
00:08:54
afternoon and get the assignment. Spec told the man he'd take the job and promise he'd be there soon. But hours
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passed and he didn't show up. After several hours, it occurred to investigators that Speck might be on to
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their plan. >> Oh [ __ ] Uh, in fact, when he spoke to the man from the NMU, the administrator
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told Spec the job was on the Sinclair Gate Great Lakes, the exact name of the ship Speck had been previously assigned
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to and was passed over for someone else. If he had caught the name, he probably would have known that that ship already
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left port. >> Y, >> which would have been a strong indication that this was a trap.
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>> That's not a good way to lay your trap. >> Use a different ship. >> You have to have everything planned out.
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So, now certain that spec was on to them. Chicago officers and detectives spread out across the city again, this
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time with a clear understanding of who they were looking for. The problem was though that with the ongoing protests
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and the general policing that was occurring at the same time, messages and alerts didn't always get relayed. Case
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in point, in the early evening of July 16th, two beat cops received a call from dispatch about a man at a local hotel
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with a gun. The officers arrived at the hotel and were told by the front desk clerk that the room was registered to a
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David Stton. But when they went up to the room, the man inside identified himself as Richard Speck. Having not
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been directly involved in the investigation of the student nurses, the officers had no way of knowing the
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suspect had been named. >> Please tell me. >> So, they simply gave Speck a verbal
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warning and confiscated the gun, allowing Speck to slip from their fingers yet again. Shut up.
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>> When the news of the check of the hotel reached homicide detectives, they raced
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to the hotel, but by the time they got there, he was gone. >> And they said, "You [ __ ] idiot."
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>> Yes. For the second time in one day, the killer of eight innocent young women had
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managed to slip away into the city, and investigators were starting to think that they might lose their chance to
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catch him. If he managed to get through the roadblocks and make it out of Chicago, they were never following him.
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Their best bet remained the fingerprints in the sketch. And finally that afternoon, they caught a lucky break.
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Despite the ongoing air airline strike, a pilot with American Airlines volunteered to fly the fingerprints from
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Washington DC to Chicago. >> Hell yeah, brother. >> Once they received the prints, two
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analysts worked through the night, analyzing the set by hand and comparing them to the prints found at the house.
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That is too cool. too cool. >> To think about people analyzing fingerprints before you could just like
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plug it into a database is bit by bit. >> So [ __ ] cool. >> And they worked all night to make sure
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these were like those two are bad asses. By the next morning, they were able to confidently and conclusively match the
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prints at the scene to Speck's prints from the FBI file. >> And detectives rushed to get the sketch
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of Speck onto the front page of every newspaper that morning. along with a description of his born to hell to race
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hell tattoo. >> No. >> Now, as soon as the description and identification of spec went out, calls
00:11:54
started flooding into the Chicago Police Department. Most were misidentifications
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or, you know, of little value basically. But there were a few who claimed to have
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seen or spoken with Speck at local bars in the days before and immediately after
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the murders. >> And they said those are probably correct because that guy drinks.
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>> He drinks. One man, Claude Lunsford, told investigators that he had been drinking with Spec a few nights earlier
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on the fire escape of the Star Hotel. He remembered that tattoo on his arm and the gun he had been carrying that night.
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>> That's such a clawed story. >> It really is such a clawed story, right? On like the fire escape of a of a bar.
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>> Yeah, that's that's just Claude doing hotel >> like, >> you know, just Cloud things
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>> where Claude hangs. >> Find yourself a Claude and he'll have a story. I know it.
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>> That is at the start of the hotel. >> While officers fielded calls that morning, Dr. Leroy Smith was on his
00:12:46
break at County Hospital where he was casually flipping the newspaper and he read the description of the suspect in
00:12:51
the tattoo. Moments later, Dr. Smith was called into surgery to help a young man
00:12:57
who had been brought to the hospital with what appeared to be superficial cuts on his wrist from a half-hearted
00:13:02
attempt to end his life. As Smith was wiping the blood away from the young man's arm, he recognized the tattoo on
00:13:09
that left arm that read, "Born to raise hail. >> Stop it." >> And realized the man on the hospital
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gurnie was none other than Richard Speck. >> Stop. >> The most wanted man in Chicago. And he
00:13:20
obviously knew that the police were onto his ass. Thank goodness he read the paper that morning.
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>> Wow. >> Dr. Smith called for hospital security who kept an eye on Speck until homicide
00:13:30
detectives were able to get to the hospital and they placed him under arrest for murder.
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>> Shut up. So he basically walked right into it. >> Yeah. >> Now when the news broke of the arrest,
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the residents of Chicago heaved a collective sigh of relief because remember they're all terrified. This guy
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walked into a [ __ ] house that night and massacred eight women. >> Like >> Yeah. It's shocking. Like absolutely
00:13:59
shocking to me that he had never murdered before. >> They're all terrified. And think about
00:14:02
Kora. Cora is [ __ ] terrified. She's the only one that survived. She's sitting there being like, "Is he going
00:14:06
to come find me?" >> Andy, that's the thing. He's seen her face. >> Yeah. Sergeant John Griffith told press
00:14:11
immediately after he was taken into custody at the hospital. There is no doubt that this is Speck. Later that
00:14:16
morning, Kora was brought to the hospital where she viewed Speck through a two-way mirror and she confirmed that
00:14:22
he was the killer, telling detectives, "This is the man." What a brave [ __ ] girl.
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>> What a badass. Truly. Yeah. Like that's really brave. After everything she went
00:14:30
through and everything she heard having to be sedated like still traumatized. >> That's the thing. She had to be sedated
00:14:36
after this. Like >> Oh yeah. >> Now in their press conference following the positive identification, police
00:14:42
superintendent ow Wilson said, "I feel we have enough evidence to convict him. We have physical evidence placing him in
00:14:49
the building and we have positive identification from an intended victim. As far as I'm concerned, there's no
00:14:54
question but that this is the man. More positive identifications followed, including those from the National
00:15:01
Maritime Union and various bars and hotels where Richard uh had been seen before and after the murders occurred.
00:15:07
>> Okay. >> The next day, July 18th, Spec was arranged for the murders, but the prosecutor was hesitant to rush the case
00:15:14
to a grand jury given how much scrutiny the courts and law enforcement had been under with regard to the rights of the
00:15:20
accused. States Attorney Daniel Ward told the press that they would be proceeding with an abundance of caution
00:15:26
and making sure the case was airtight before presenting it to a grand jury, >> which you understand.
00:15:31
>> Yeah. They don't want this guy getting released again. Jesus Christ. >> And he's been in and out of the system
00:15:35
forever. >> Yeah. And so Ward said, "We anticipate going to the grand jury this week with
00:15:40
the case. Although Speck is presently under sedation, we plan to have him appear in felony court." In fact, more
00:15:46
than three weeks passed before investigators were even given approval to interview Speck. But eventually, Ward
00:15:52
presented the evidence to a grand jury with a small but pretty significant amount of circumstantial evidence behind
00:15:58
him. >> Among other things, they were presented with the fingerprint evidence that
00:16:02
linked him to the crime scene, Kora's positive identification of him as the killer and various others who testified,
00:16:09
including William Kirkland, who told the jury he'd bought a 12-in hunting knife from Speck at a downtown bar just hours
00:16:17
after the murders were committed. >> Stop it. bought the [ __ ] knife from him >> hours later.
00:16:23
>> According to Kirkland, we were sitting there talking and Spec brought the knife
00:16:26
out and began talking about it. I asked him if he if he wanted to sell it, offered him a dollar, and he handed me
00:16:31
the knife. >> A dollar? >> A dollar cuz he wanted to get rid of that murder weapon.
00:16:35
>> That should have been like a red flag for that guy. >> Yeah, I would say so. Now, the grand
00:16:40
jury voted to indict Richard Speck on eight counts of first-degree murder, but the road to the trial was going to be
00:16:45
long and filled with delays. For one, Speck's attempted suicide, no matter how sincere or insincere, was evidence of a
00:16:53
deep depression that would surely hinder his ability to aid in his own defense. Unfortunately,
00:16:59
>> at the time, there was still a great deal of concern again over the rights of
00:17:03
the accused. >> So, the prosecutor's office is saying, "Unless everything's done completely by
00:17:08
the book, there's a chance that one little technicality is going to get us, and we're just not walking into that."
00:17:13
>> Good for them to be so >> so careful. >> Yeah. cuz this is just like we don't
00:17:18
need the verdict overturned in an appeal. We don't need some technicality cutting this short
00:17:24
to walk out that door and do it again. >> As a result, the preparation for the trial took months as both sides readied
00:17:30
for what would surely be the biggest trial of the year. >> Oh yeah. >> In the meantime, Richard Spec sat in
00:17:37
jail waiting for the trial to begin. Between July 26th, 1966 and February 17th, 1967, he was held at Kermach
00:17:45
Memorial Hospital in the Chicago House of Corrections. And he was being treated for depression and suicidal ideiation.
00:17:52
Also, according to Dr. William Norcross, there was quote an 80% chance that Speck
00:17:57
had suffered a coronary thrombosis on the morning of his arraignment. So, he required treatment for that as well.
00:18:03
Dang. [music] During this time, he participated in twice weekly sessions with a psychiatrist, Dr. Marvin Zaporan, who
00:18:24
would go on to write a book about his experience with spec. >> Oh, isn't that very against everything?
00:18:30
[laughter] >> Isn't that very against everything? >> Do you know what I mean? Like hippo.
00:18:34
Yeah, I've I'm sure. >> But maybe do criminals not get HIPPA? >> Do you not get HIPPA? [laughter]
00:18:39
>> Hey, criminals. Do you get criminals? You got HIPPA? >> No, but like you know what I'm saying?
00:18:46
[laughter] Cuz I know that like when you're a criminal and you write a book, you can't
00:18:51
profit off of it. Like when you're like a killer, >> that's like a newer >> I know that's newer.
00:18:55
>> Um I said that's so rude. I was like I know that's newer. >> I know that. >> But no, I'm like the psychiatrist
00:19:02
writing about it. Isn't that like no? Isn't that bad news bears? >> I think they have to still maintain
00:19:10
animity when it comes to the person that they were treating, but they can talk about their experiences
00:19:16
>> without naming them. I'm fairly >> and then everybody will just know that it's that [laughter] person
00:19:21
>> and everybody will know. But like >> interesting. >> I mean, I guess he can sue you.
00:19:26
>> It's one of those things, you know? So many legal questions. >> Spoiler alert, he's dead now. So,
00:19:32
>> okay. He's not doing [ __ ] >> All right. >> Except for rotting where [laughter]
00:19:35
good. >> Um >> maybe that's maybe that's it. >> Maybe that's what it is. >> All right. Anyway,
00:19:39
>> uh so he Sorry, I got caught up in the minut. >> Yeah, you know, it's cool. But so he
00:19:44
wrote a book and he said later, "Yes, Speck was suicidal. He was emotionally unstable, impulsive, and depressive. In
00:19:50
his early sessions, he noted that Speck's mood changed constantly through their meetings and was quote, "Never the
00:19:56
same for more than two or three minutes at a time." >> Wow, that's horrifying. >> Scary. Uh, like nearly all Americans at
00:20:02
the time, Saporin was desperate to find an explanation for what was an inexplicably brutal and pretty [ __ ]
00:20:09
senseless like set of murders. >> Yeah. >> Spec had forcibly entered the house presumably to rob the nurses who
00:20:16
willingly gave up their money and listened to him. Then for reasons that made no sense at the time, he just chose
00:20:23
to brutally and systematically murder them all. The modem was supposed to be robbery. That was pretty weak. motive
00:20:30
for him to claim now. >> Especially cuz they all just were like sitting in a room and were bound.
00:20:38
>> They were sitting there saying, "We'll give you everything. You can take all you want. I don't give a shit."
00:20:42
>> And there's a living witness to testify to that. >> It's like that doesn't And so it's like
00:20:46
after they cooperated, why he would murder them and so brutally is beyond comprehension. Truly.
00:20:54
>> Absolutely it is. But Zaporan spent months digging deep into Spec's psyche, looking for the key that would explain
00:20:59
his actions. And there was a great deal of talk about his upbringing, the death of his father, the abuse he suffered at
00:21:05
the hands of his stepfather, of course. >> Yeah. >> Um, there was also the discovery that as
00:21:09
a teenager, he might have suffered a head injury at the hands of a police officer when he was 16 years old.
00:21:15
>> There it is. That's also really bad timing for the police. >> Yeah. That he told Saborin, "I was
00:21:19
fighting this kid. I had him on the ground really giving it to him and a cop came to break it up. He broke it up,
00:21:25
okay? Cracked my head with his club till he knocked me out clean. So >> since then, Richard claimed he had been
00:21:32
experiencing headaches, migraines, all that were like pretty debilitating. And he said he often blacked out and would
00:21:38
awaken hours later with no memory of what had happened, which I said, "Wow, convenient."
00:21:42
>> So yeah, [laughter] here's the thing. Did that happen or did he look at the social climate and say, "Hey, I've been
00:21:49
affected by big old policemen, too. They're the reason I did this. I just blacked out. Sometimes I close my eyes
00:21:55
and I don't know what happened. It's crazy. >> It's a little too convenient. >> And just for good measure, Speck also
00:22:00
included a story about falling out of a tree when he was 6 years old and sustaining a similar head injury. So, he
00:22:05
just he's bopping his head all over the place. He's like, I don't even What head? Who? I don't know her. [laughter]
00:22:13
>> I was trying to say anything, but I couldn't stop laughing. I [laughter] was like,
00:22:19
yeah, I don't know, man. Maybe I [laughter] have injury. Oh, well, no, we'll never know whether Richard was
00:22:24
telling the truth in these interviews. We can know. >> We can uh wildly speculate. [laughter]
00:22:30
>> Uh it's entirely possible that he was telling the truth and that he had had something was wrong with him.
00:22:36
>> Something was wrong. Um but, you know, maybe he was fabricating the whole thing
00:22:39
in preparation for an insanity defense that was clearly being telegraphed by his lawyer, Cook County public defender
00:22:45
Gerald Getty. >> Rob, pro problem. Uh, in preparation for the case, Getty had enlisted three
00:22:50
wellrespected psychiatrists whose opinions he hoped would override those of the prosecution's experts. In fact,
00:22:56
Getty was in a very tricky spot. On the one hand, there was strong evidence that
00:23:01
placed his client at the scene and a witness who repeatedly identified him as the killer.
00:23:06
>> Yeah. >> On the other hand, an insanity defense carried some significant risks. For
00:23:11
instance, if Speck was evaluated by Getty psychiatrists and determined to be a sociopath, it would completely
00:23:17
undermine his insanity defense. >> Yep. >> Still, insanity was the most viable strategy at this point. So, Getty moved
00:23:24
forward and hoped that they could convince the jury Speck wasn't responsible for his actions. What Getty
00:23:30
didn't know at the time was that Dr. Zaporan's evaluations and log of contacts with Speck might work in the
00:23:35
defendant's favor. >> Oh. After spending months with Speck, Zaporan concluded, quote, "Speck is an
00:23:41
obsessive compulsive personality whose rigidity, ambivalence, and hostility have been accentuated by his organic
00:23:47
cerebral pathology." >> Yeah. >> In other words, Speck had an organic mental illness that had been exacerbated
00:23:54
by his reported brain injury when he was 16. >> Okay. >> When those symptoms were at their worst,
00:23:59
he wrote, "A patient is not responsible for his conduct and may be completely unaware of what he is doing."
00:24:05
I disagree. I put that totally disagree. >> But I'm not there. You don't I [laughter]
00:24:12
how we got to really take into consideration how long it must have taken him to do everything he did to
00:24:18
those women >> systematically >> one by one >> walked to those women out there and
00:24:25
sexually assaulted some of them and then brutally [ __ ] he himself later says which we will get to that strangling
00:24:33
someone isn't like you see in the movies you got to go at it for a good 3 minutes
00:24:38
>> Jesus literally what he says and it's on tape later. >> And it's also like how do you know that
00:24:42
if you've never done it cuz like you don't remember your blackouts. >> You're not responsible for your actions
00:24:47
though. So like how do you know that? >> I don't know about that. >> Yeah. Now this wasn't the first time the
00:24:51
prosecutor's office had heard Zaporin's chronic brain syndrome quote unquote as an explanation for criminal behavior. In
00:24:59
fact, he presented it several times in previous criminal cases. >> Like dude, come on.
00:25:03
>> Never with much success. >> Yeah. kind of sounds like he was, you know, trying to get that to be a thing
00:25:09
and it just it isn't a thing. >> It's like maybe let's not try to make that a thing.
00:25:13
>> Yeah. Anticipating um Zaporan and others attempts to explain away Speck's behavior, the prosecution began building
00:25:20
their own case to demonstrate that Richard Speck wasn't some ordinary man afflicted with a kind of jackal and hyde
00:25:26
syndrome. Instead, he had developed his criminal personality and cunning over many years of illegal activity and be a
00:25:33
ship. like he's just >> simple as that. >> Richard Spec's trial began April 3rd,
00:25:38
1967 in Peoria, Illinois, just outside of Chicago. In his opening statements to the jury, prosecutor William Martin
00:25:46
detailed the carnage that unfolded in the townhouse on the night of July 13, including eight murders, robbery, and
00:25:53
sexual assault, all of which was committed by Richard >> Spec. All alone. At no time did any of
00:25:59
the victims attempt to fight or resist Spec. And they because they were bound. >> Yeah.
00:26:04
>> And in fact, they willingly handed over whatever valuables they had in order to
00:26:08
cooperate and get him to leave. But Speck didn't leave. Martin reminded the jury he chose instead to brutally stab,
00:26:15
slash, and strangle everyone in that house in order to cover his tracks and get away with his crime. Which also
00:26:23
means he's sane everybody. He literally did it >> to not leave a witness so he could get
00:26:29
away with it. and then also sold the knife afterwards, which shows that he was trying to get rid of the murder
00:26:34
weapon. >> Like, hello. And that's Martin argued that's the behavior of a man who knew
00:26:39
exactly what he was doing and exactly what would happen if he was caught. As he wrapped up his opening statements,
00:26:44
Martin reminded the jury that his office was asking for the death penalty in this
00:26:48
case, as nothing less was appropriate for what he had done. >> In this scenario, I kind of got a he is
00:26:54
an animal. When it came time for Gerald Getty to present his case, it was as simple a defense as any had ever heard
00:27:01
in this courthouse. He said, "I don't know. He lost his head." [laughter] >> Are you ready?
00:27:05
>> No, probably not. >> He told the jury, "My man didn't do it." No. No. No. No. Get that out of here.
00:27:12
No. My man didn't do it. >> Period. >> My man didn't do it. Period. Now, at some point, [laughter]
00:27:19
>> he got up there with his whole chest >> and talking about a massacre said, "My
00:27:26
man didn't do it. >> My man didn't do it. >> This is just your man now. >> My man didn't do it.
00:27:31
>> That's a conflict of interest, my guy." >> Here's the thing. I think at some point
00:27:35
it became pretty clear to Getty that the insanity defense was uh not going to happen and probably very risky. So,
00:27:41
instead, he just chose the oldest defense in the book, which is wasn't me. wasn't me. He said, "The theory of the
00:27:49
defense is that Speck is not the perpetrator of this crime. The state will have to prove its contention beyond
00:27:54
a reasonable doubt." >> Okay, >> bye. >> The girl who experienced it is right over there and says otherwise. Thanks.
00:28:02
>> His strategy, idiot, >> uh, might have been bold given the evidence. >> Might have been, but he was right about
00:28:08
one thing. It was very much incumbent upon the state to prove its case against Spec, not the other way around.
00:28:14
>> Yeah, that's true. Um, Getty told the jury, "Their evidence will include an eyewitness, and you will have to test
00:28:19
whether that witness is an eyewitness." >> What a douchebag. Which, whoa. Uh, Getty's case may have seemed like a big
00:28:26
risk, but the fact was the forensic evidence only indicated Richard Spec had been in the house at some point, and not
00:28:32
necessarily during the time the women were killed. Unfortunately, it was only Kora, her testimony, that identified him
00:28:39
as the killer. And by her own admission, she hadn't seen her roommates being murdered. She only saw the killer when
00:28:45
he entered the house and tied everyone up. Therefore, it was entirely possible that Kora was mistaken in identifying
00:28:52
Spec or that she was so traumatized by the event that she misremembered the situation entirely. That's what they
00:28:58
could have argued, though. That's what they would have argued. >> Yeah. Getty's subtle attack on the
00:29:02
state's most important witness was to be expected, of course, and it was given a
00:29:07
certain amount of credibility in the eyes of the public, considering that Kora hadn't been seen or heard from
00:29:12
since she was rescued from that scene. >> In fact, many >> Sorry. They said we didn't see her in
00:29:18
the public, so that would only lead me to believe her more. >> Yeah. In fact, many reporters and
00:29:24
speculators wondered whether Kora was even still in the United States. On the second day of the trial, those questions
00:29:30
were put to rest, though, when the prosecution called Kora up to testify. >> I'm like, "Oh, racism." It turned out
00:29:36
that there was a very good reason for her sudden disappearance following the murders. Kora had been placed in witness
00:29:41
protection by the prosecution who worried she might be a flight risk or otherwise too fragile to testify against
00:29:47
Speck. >> Yeah. In the end, Kora proved everyone wrong and ended up being William
00:29:52
Martin's single greatest asset. >> Good. [clears throat] Good. That's a real good for her [laughter] moment.
00:29:58
>> I hate that the public was like, "Is she even in the United States anymore?" >> Isn't that [ __ ] yourself?
00:30:04
>> Isn't that so the public? >> Is that traumatized girl even in the US? >> Probably not.
00:30:11
>> Isn't that so the public though? >> Yes, it's so the public. >> Isn't that so the public?
00:30:15
>> Not the public listening right now, but the other public. like that. Those are
00:30:19
that's those like people on the internet who were like like that's those are people before the internet.
00:30:25
>> And I got to tell you that's what you all sound like. [laughter] Like if you're listening right now and you're
00:30:30
not our public and you're >> that's what [laughter] you sound like. >> And I know it's not you guys.
00:30:37
>> I'm saying you know you guys know you know those those deep goblins on the internet who just have some [ __ ] to say
00:30:45
about [ __ ] everything. everything. Like their [ __ ] opinion matters. Like their [ __ ] words matter. They just go
00:30:52
around going >> I literally just picture Spongebobby like in the Spongebob text where it's
00:30:56
like is she even in the United States [laughter] anymore like okay >> it's so true.
00:31:02
>> Where are you exactly? [laughter] >> Like it's so true. It's so so true. [sighs]
00:31:07
>> Get a grip public. >> See that's that's those kind of people. >> I love that she was like [laughter]
00:31:11
>> she said [ __ ] y'all. >> Let me clear my >> She said listen the public. [ __ ] y'all.
00:31:15
>> Good. Now, over the course of several hours, Kora answered a seemingly endless
00:31:20
barrage of questions and detailed precisely what she'd seen and heard on the nights of the murders, during which
00:31:26
she frequently paused to compose herself, but never broke down. >> Good for her.
00:31:31
>> During the course of her testimony, she described the killer's appearance, the
00:31:34
fact that he smelled of alcohol because he's a nasty ass drunk, and even provided detailed descriptions of the
00:31:40
knife and gun that were nearly an exact match. >> Wow. Finally, when Martin asked whether
00:31:46
the man who committed the murders was in the courtroom, Kora rose from the witness stand, walked over to the
00:31:53
defense's table, standing only about a foot in front of him. She extended her arm, and pointed directly in Speck's
00:32:02
face. The womb that my body just did, nearly touching his nasty little [ __ ] nose. She said, "Not only am I in the
00:32:11
US, you [ __ ] right here, [ __ ] I'm like a millimeter away from him. Oh, I am still warming.
00:32:18
>> And she said loud enough for the whole court to hear, "This is the man." Oh, honey,
00:32:24
>> this is the man. >> They love to doubt a woman and a woman loves to [ __ ] him up. [ __ ] him up.
00:32:30
>> Y'all [ __ ] y'all. >> Oh, good for that. >> Of course, [ __ ] >> Enough can't be said. Enough can't be
00:32:37
said about the [ __ ] survivor she is. She did that for every single one of her friends and sisters and classmates.
00:32:45
Goosebumps. No, I'm still warming. It's insane. >> I've read this a few time. I have
00:32:48
[ __ ] goosebumps. >> That man you like, we really need to sit with this for a second. That man broke
00:32:55
into her house. She was the one who was at the door, right? >> She was in bed, heard a knock on the
00:32:59
door. He knocked on the [ __ ] door. >> He knocked on the door. He shoved the door with a gun in her face.
00:33:04
>> He gets her into a They all run into a closet to hide. He somehow convinces them to come out, ties her and her
00:33:11
friends up. Systematically, she can hear them being sexually assaulted, strangled, stabbed over and over again,
00:33:18
>> and she hides underneath a bed for hours and hours and hours and hours, then comes out to that carnage and lives to
00:33:24
tell the [ __ ] tale, stays in the United States, which everybody was so [ __ ] doubtful about, and then goes
00:33:30
into the courtroom and reles all of that. to relive all of that and then walk right up to that [ __ ] table.
00:33:38
>> Literally, >> the snaps can't be [ __ ] snapped enough. >> To saunter up to that [ __ ] table,
00:33:43
nearly touch the tip of that little bitch's nose and go, "That's a man." >> She said, "You didn't get me."
00:33:52
>> She said this one. >> And really, you didn't get any of us. >> This one [ __ ]
00:33:56
>> I applaud her. I I will applaud her till my dying day. >> She's everything. Cora for life. Yeah,
00:34:02
she's everything. >> And she just and she just said it loud and proud. This >> good for her.
00:34:07
>> In fact, one reporter said it was a moment few in the crowded courtroom would ever forget. It was filled with
00:34:13
the courage that was in the dimmin dimminionive 4 foot 10in form of the sole survivor of a tragic mass murder.
00:34:21
>> Always the shorties. >> She's a little You got to >> She is little but she is fierce.
00:34:26
>> You got to Everyone's going to doubt you. >> Yeah, I know little. >> Everyone's going to underestimate you.
00:34:31
So you got to you got to be >> that's how little Red became Big Red. [laughter] >> That's it.
00:34:36
>> She's forceful and courageous. >> 4 foot 10 and she walks up to that table. >> Good. Good for her.
00:34:43
>> Like a [ __ ] >> And he's a 6' tall like >> Yeah. >> gross looking monster >> goblin. And she walks up a [ __ ]
00:34:50
powerhouse. >> Obsessed. >> Yeah. >> It's amazing. So on April 14th, both sides gave their closing arguments.
00:34:56
>> Honey the Kora. Honey the Kora. >> I said, "Hold on." It came to me. What William Martin reminded the jury of all
00:35:03
that they'd seen and heard throughout the trial. Details of his long criminal history, his propensity for violence,
00:35:08
the irrefutable evidence that's placed him at the scene, and Kora's powerful testimony that identified Richard Speck
00:35:15
as the killer. Gerald Getty, on the other hand, restated his argument that Speck had never been at the house on the
00:35:21
night of the murders. He said, "Let me say one more time, [clears throat] my man didn't do it.
00:35:26
>> My man didn't do it." >> That's all. The fingerprints, he argued, were just, you know, too similar to
00:35:30
those of two people living in the house to be conclusive. >> Are you [ __ ] kidding?
00:35:34
>> FBI analysts literally spent all night hand analyzing them. >> I'm like, "Hey, babe. Do you know about
00:35:39
fingerprints?" >> Yeah. Oh, and also Spec had an alibi from two customers at a local tavern
00:35:44
that placed him somewhere else that night. And you know how how credible two customers of a local tavern usually are.
00:35:52
>> Honey, you know, >> honey, the tavern. And then Getty just said mistaken identity. Mistaken
00:35:59
identity. >> He just said peace. >> Peace. And also I'd like you all right now >> right now
00:36:05
>> to look up a picture of Rick Richard Spec. I shall. >> And then I want you to tell me if you
00:36:10
could ever mistake that man for someone else. He's pretty [ __ ] distinct. >> Yeah,
00:36:15
>> he's pretty [ __ ] distinct. >> Yeah, >> he's foul. It's It's pretty distinct.
00:36:21
He's heinous. Ultimately, [music] the jury disagreed with Getty. Uh, after deliberating for just 45 minutes, they
00:36:41
returned guilty verdicts on all eight counts, each one carrying a death sentence.
00:36:45
>> Wow. >> Uh, when the verdicts were read, Richard Spec looked up at the clerk, but
00:36:49
otherwise registered no emotion. Is he even capable, do we think? Probably not. Detective Brian Carile told a reporter
00:36:56
it was the only verdict the jury could have reached. >> Yeah. >> Uh, noticeably absent in the court that
00:37:01
day was the only surviving victim, Kora. Later that afternoon, >> she did what she needed to do.
00:37:05
>> She didn't give a [ __ ] She was like, "I know what I did." >> Yeah. And she knew that was going to be
00:37:08
enough to get him put away. >> Later that afternoon, when William Martin called to tell Kora the news, her
00:37:14
response was, "Congratulations." >> Period. >> She said, "Good job." >> She said, "Cool. I'm going to go about
00:37:19
my life now." >> Yeah. I'm going to pretend like this never happened. >> Now, on June 5th, 1967, Richard Speck
00:37:25
was sentenced to die in the electric chair, pending any appeals guaranteed to him by the Constitution. In 1968, the
00:37:32
Illinois Supreme Court upheld the conviction and the sentence, and that conviction was upheld a second time on
00:37:38
an appeal in 1971. But just one year later, the Supreme Court ruled the death penalty was
00:37:43
unconstitutional. And in November 1972, a judge in the same county reentenced Richard Spec to between 400 and 1,200
00:37:52
years in prison. >> I don't know if that's enough. Effectively giving him a life sentence.
00:37:56
>> I love when judges get petty like that. >> That like that's delicious. >> Can sentence you to death. How about a
00:38:04
gajillion years? >> That's very delicious. I really like that. The commutation of Speck's death
00:38:09
sentence was a disappointment to some, but the fact remained that he would spend the rest of his life and several
00:38:14
other lifetimes behind bars. And yet, throughout all of the hearings and appeals, one thing remained unsolved.
00:38:21
Specs motive for the murders. What the [ __ ] Like, why? >> Why did he just walk into that house one
00:38:26
day? In the years before Charles Manson and his followers reframed the public's understanding of murder and before the
00:38:33
FBI began researching and profiling murder leading to, you know, what we understand now about this like
00:38:40
horrifying phenomenon, the general public's perception of murder was pretty simple. Basically, people could
00:38:46
understand murder in the commission of a robbery, murder in a domestic violence situation, and even murder in the
00:38:52
commission of a sex crime. understand is a word. I can't think of another word to
00:38:56
say it. You know what I mean? Like I'm not saying they're justifying it. They're saying like my brain can
00:39:01
comprehend that that happens. >> Yeah. And that >> people just couldn't understand messed
00:39:05
up brain. That is a reason to do that. You know, >> um they could at least understand that.
00:39:11
What was incomprehensible though was murder simply for the sake of murder. That was just not something people could
00:39:17
wrap their brains around, >> which is incomprehensible even still to this day. And again, I said like in Mind
00:39:22
Hunter, you see them >> they talk to Richard Speck in Mind Hunter. >> I got to rewatch that.
00:39:27
>> He was part of this whole thing. So, it's like he they didn't understand. They desperately wanted to understand
00:39:32
why he did this. And >> honestly, we'll never understand. He's just a piece of [ __ ]
00:39:37
>> Um >> I hope someday we can figure out >> I hope someone is a reason though. I
00:39:42
really don't. There's got to be >> I don't know what it could be. But the idea that someone would kill not for any
00:39:49
material gain but just for the satisfaction of killing was just like a concept we couldn't get. Of course,
00:39:54
killers like Spec had existed for centuries and again always would. But in the American imagination, they'd always
00:40:02
been relegated to the pages of fiction, not reality. So it's like this once it started coming into their regular lives,
00:40:08
it was like what? >> That's confounding. So because of this spec's mass murder of eight women for no
00:40:15
[ __ ] reason was according to prosecutor William Martin the end of an age of innocence like suddenly it was
00:40:21
like the glass shatter moment >> that's so heavy >> and it's very much the glass shatter
00:40:24
moment >> it was always happening >> but now it was behind that glass that we just didn't know about or we didn't
00:40:30
understand and now the glass has shattered and now we have to accept that there are people in this world that kill
00:40:36
because they like to kill and it's like that must have been a [ __ ] up time. >> Yeah, absolutely.
00:40:41
>> We've always lived in a time where people have killed for the [clears throat] sake of killing or for
00:40:45
satisfaction because they like to do it. They like to hurt people. >> So, we've never had we can sit here and
00:40:51
like wonder why, but we've never lived in a world where it that even happened and then suddenly to be thrust into this
00:40:58
new way of thinking of like, oh [ __ ] >> that person over there could just really
00:41:03
like killing people and just do it for no reason. what it must have been like to just
00:41:09
>> go about your day in certain ways and not expect to be killed. >> Yeah. >> Like that's
00:41:13
>> in the parking lot this morning. I thought I was going to get killed. >> Yeah.
00:41:16
>> Like that happens all the time. >> Always think about >> that's a woman's Roman Empire is getting
00:41:20
killed. >> Getting killed. >> Yeah. That's why we do this, I think. >> Yeah. You know.
00:41:23
>> Oh, yeah. Now, for two days while he Well, we didn't know who he was. People in Chicago lived in abject fear of this
00:41:30
unknown killer capable of anything. just stalking the streets and capable of killing n eight people at a time alone.
00:41:38
>> Um Martin said it changed everything. We all became much more conscious of our
00:41:43
security. Eight nurses could be slaughtered in their beds for no reason by a stranger. And if it could happen to
00:41:49
eight young women all on the verge of starting their lives and all well-loved and wellresected and smart and capable,
00:41:56
it could happen to anyone. >> Yeah. In the years that followed, the fear and anxiety that gripped Chicago
00:42:01
for those two days would creep into every corner of America, obviously, as the nation grew more and more aware that
00:42:07
not everyone around them was safe. >> But in many ways, that fear can be traced back to Richard Spec's decision
00:42:13
to murder eight innocent women for no [ __ ] reason. Now, maybe it's because of that fear that so many people became
00:42:20
kind of obsessed with understanding his crimes. Well, when there's no answer, you do keep going back to something.
00:42:26
Gerald Getty wanted to prove his client was insane at the time of the killing. While Dr. Zaporin theorized that it was
00:42:32
likely a head injury combined with an organic mental illness that led to it. If they could find an explanation, a lot
00:42:39
of people were reasoning maybe we could stop these killers >> before it even happens,
00:42:43
>> you know, or at the very least make them safe from themselves, stop it from happening. And there was a real movement
00:42:49
and still kind of is to figure out what is happening, how this happens and stop it before it actually even begins to
00:42:56
start. >> Right. Right. >> But on December 5th, 1991, just one day before his 50th birthday, Richard Speck
00:43:03
died. >> One day before his 50th birthday. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> He died at Silver Cross Hospital from a
00:43:09
heart attack. >> And his dad had died early of a heart attack. >> It's true. And young. Yeah. Like young.
00:43:14
>> Pretty young. Yeah. So, that should be where the story of Richard Spec ends. But there's a weird bizarre KOD at the
00:43:21
end of this that I don't think anybody really could have uh seen coming like after death. Um, so in the spring of
00:43:28
1996, he died in 1991. >> That's my literal time. The spring of 1996, [laughter]
00:43:36
>> row, you know, different big difference. Uh, in the spring of 1996, television
00:43:41
news anchor Bill Curtis interviewed William Martin for a special that he was working on for A&E television.
00:43:47
>> Oh, an A&E. >> After the interview, >> we know drama. >> Yeah. After the interview, I'm so sorry.
00:43:52
[laughter] >> Like, what? >> You're like, "Shut the [ __ ] up." >> Uh, after the interview was done, Martin
00:43:56
was walking Curtis to the elevator when he suggested Martin come to his office sometime soon. He said, "I want to show
00:44:03
you something." >> That's terrifying. >> I would have said, "No." And is Martin the guy that was like, "My man didn't do
00:44:08
it." >> No, that's Getty. Martin was the on the good side. Oh, okay. I'd go to his
00:44:12
office. So, at the time, he's a veteran prosecutor, so he's like, "Sure." So, at
00:44:16
the time, Martin thought Curtis was just being polite. So, he acknowledged the offer, but then kind of forgot about it.
00:44:21
Uh, but a few weeks later, Martin got a call from Bill Curtis's assistant, again, inviting Martin to Curtis's
00:44:27
office to see something he thought would be of some importance. So, because there
00:44:32
was repeated requests at this time, Martin's like, "All right, cool. He must have something to show me. So, a few
00:44:37
days later, he found himself sitting before a television in Curtis's Chicago office. According to Bill Curtis, he had
00:44:44
received a videotape from an unnamed lawyer with access to inmates at Stateville Correctional Center, where
00:44:50
Richard Spec was serving his sentence. >> The lawyer claimed that the tapes contained irrefutable evidence of
00:44:56
profound corruption and abuse happening in the Illinois prison system, and he wanted Curtis to expose that corruption.
00:45:02
>> Oh, [ __ ] Bill Curtis was like, "Fuck yeah, I will." But before he showed those tapes to a committee at the state
00:45:08
legislature, he wanted William Martin to see them. >> When Bill Curtis pressed play on the
00:45:14
VCR, the first thing that that Richard that Martin saw was Richard Speck on the videotape.
00:45:21
>> Okay. >> Sitting beside another inmate, Ronzel Laramore, in an otherwise empty room
00:45:25
with blank walls. There was a third person who has never been identified operating the camera.
00:45:30
>> Okay. >> They're in prison, by the way. Why do they have a video camera? >> Yep.
00:45:34
>> Martin was so scared right now. >> You should be. So Martin was shocked when he saw Speck in the video because
00:45:40
it had been decades since he'd last seen Richard Spec and he remembered him being
00:45:43
like awkward, like really skinny, gangly. But in the video, Richard was considerably heavier and looked much
00:45:50
older than 47 years old. >> Okay. >> And he Yeah. He was sporting this like really odd page boy haircut too and was
00:45:59
wearing old paint smeared clothing. >> Okay. >> It's a very unsettling image. >> Have you seen it?
00:46:05
>> I've seen an image from it. >> Oh, but >> should I Google now? >> Careful when googling. [laughter]
00:46:11
I will give you that. >> Okay, I'll have you show me the one. >> Careful when googling.
00:46:15
>> Oh, no. >> The video itself, the fact that unsupervised inmates had access to a
00:46:19
video camera in an empty room. >> Yeah. Weird. were surprising to Martin and certainly seemed like evidence of
00:46:24
poor prison management right off the bat. Uh, but the content of the video was what shocked him the most. In the
00:46:30
video, Laramore can be heard interviewing Spec. Um, and it's revealed that the two of them have been in a
00:46:35
sexual relationship for many years. Richard is seen on the video performing sex acts and using drugs on camera.
00:46:44
They're in prison >> using drugs and and perform. So, they're making like a sex tape in prison.
00:46:48
>> Yeah. Okay. And he also reveals that he had some kind of hormone smuggled into
00:46:53
prison which he had been taking and no one had known about it. >> Okay. And then he goes on to, now this
00:46:59
is Richard Speck. He goes on to remove his clothing and can be seen walking back and forth in front of the camera
00:47:05
wearing nothing but a pair of women's underwear, which I assume he's in a men's prison. So where did he get those?
00:47:11
>> Not real sure. Just before the video ends, the conversation turns to the crimes for which Richard Spec was in
00:47:18
there for. Laramore asks, "What's what are you locked up for?" And he says, "Eight counts of murder." And Laramore
00:47:24
smiles. >> Ew. >> And says, "Did you kill them?" And Richard chuckles and says, "Sure, I
00:47:29
did." >> And when he's asked why he did it, which is the question that everyone had been
00:47:35
asking forever, he does not hesitate even a little. And he says, "It just wasn't their night.
00:47:42
>> [gasps] >> What the [ __ ] Isn't that the most chilling thing you've ever heard?
00:47:48
Ew. Like the most chilling thing. It just wasn't their night. >> It just wasn't their night.
00:47:56
>> No hesitation. It just wasn't their night. Like, what the [ __ ] >> What does that even mean, dude?
00:48:03
>> What does that even mean? >> Like >> to be so like horrifying. >> Is cavalier the right word for that?
00:48:11
Yeah, that just popped into my brain. Yeah, it just wasn't their night. And they and he even asked him like why he's
00:48:18
like why did you bring a gun and not use it? And he said it makes too much noise.
00:48:22
>> It was just for like So once he's proving that he knew exactly what he was in there to do.
00:48:28
>> So that whole thing where he was like cuz then he says something like all I want to do was burglary. It started off
00:48:33
as burglary. No, baby. You just you just kind of showed your ass, though, cuz you
00:48:37
said that the gun would be too loud. So, you were planning to use it. >> Yeah. >> You were planning to use something to
00:48:42
hurt them, and you knew the gun would be too loud. That's why you brought the knife.
00:48:45
>> I don't think I will ever forget. It just wasn't their night. >> Yeah. >> That's like
00:48:50
>> It just wasn't their night. >> That's like um what's her name? Brenda. >> Oh my god. Who said, "Yeah, I just don't
00:48:55
like Mondays." >> Yep. >> Like that's [ __ ] up. And he even says he talks to him and
00:49:02
this is when he says like strangle a person. It's not like what you see on TV about 3 seconds and they're dead. You've
00:49:07
got to go at it for three and a half minutes. It takes a lot of strength. I'm just like I'm shook right now.
00:49:15
>> Yeah, he's a horrifying human being. Um so again, up until this point it been
00:49:21
decades to try to figure out why the [ __ ] he murdered eight innocent women and nobody ever really got an answer.
00:49:27
And it kind of but it was also kind of just right in front of them the whole time. He wasn't mentally ill. He didn't
00:49:32
have any neurological disorders that caused him to kill without knowing what he was doing.
00:49:36
>> He was a shitty person, a petty criminal who'd found himself caught in the act of
00:49:42
robbery and sexual assault. And instead of going to jail for his crimes, he just
00:49:45
decided to wipe out all the witnesses. And he went in there thinking, "Well, maybe I'll kill some people tonight." He
00:49:52
just didn't care. Like it wasn't. >> And he was pissed off. I think he was a pissy little [ __ ]
00:49:58
>> and I think he got into moods and he got into rages and when he got mad got >> off the handle
00:50:02
>> someone else was going to pay for it and >> so I think that was part of it. >> That's got to be like even though like
00:50:08
we like we're saying like he's not mentally ill that h it has to be some mental illness that we just haven't
00:50:14
figured out yet. >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? >> I don't even know I don't even know if I
00:50:18
want to classify it as a mental illness. I think it's like he's missing something.
00:50:23
>> Yeah. I miss a piece of what makes you a human. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Which I think is different from a mental
00:50:30
illness. >> No, I don't think you're wrong. >> Is missing a fundamental piece of what
00:50:34
makes you a human being. I think we just haven't figured out what that piece is yet.
00:50:38
>> I think eventually we will figure out what the pieces are that fundamentally make you a human being and keep your
00:50:44
humanity intact. And I think he is missing it or it's irrevocably broken. Well, I think a lot of it has to do with
00:50:50
the brain and like which part of the brains connect and which part of the like which pathways are [ __ ] up.
00:50:55
>> And it's I I do feel like if we keep studying the brain like we will find out.
00:51:00
>> And I it's got to be some pathway to like a like two different parts of the brain that just don't connect.
00:51:05
>> Yeah. >> Or that maybe two parts of the brain that do connect and not aren't supposed
00:51:09
to. >> I don't know. But it's >> I I hope I'm alive when they figure it out. I know cuz the thing is like he was
00:51:17
in a [ __ ] frenzied state. >> Yeah. >> During this like frenzied like anim animalistic like blackout, not blackout
00:51:24
but like rage wild frenzy. And only because of that only because he was in such a frenzied ragefilled just chaotic
00:51:33
state. That's why he failed to notice that one of his intended targets had disappeared and wasn't sitting in the
00:51:39
room. >> Right. And it's only thanks to the bravery of Kora Amaro that Speck was
00:51:46
held accountable at all. And he even says that in the video, which further goes to show you that Kora is the
00:51:53
[ __ ] hero here, because in the video they ask him, Larore asks him, uh, how did it feel after killing all those
00:52:01
ladies? That's how he says it. And he says, like I always felt, have no feeling. If you're asking if I felt
00:52:07
sorry, no. And he says a very like >> just and he says, "Did none of them get away?"
00:52:13
>> Somebody else asked that. >> Yeah. >> And he says, "One did. That's why I'm sitting here now." And he says, "If none
00:52:19
of them got away, I wouldn't be sitting here." So he unknowingly also just proved that Kora is the [ __ ] badass
00:52:27
of the century here and she's the reason he's behind bars. >> I can't imagine being Kora and hearing
00:52:32
that. >> Yeah. >> That you're the reason and that he knows it. that he's been sitting in prison.
00:52:39
That also that's the biggest >> that must have been simultaneously >> horrifying and also
00:52:45
>> so validating >> satisfying because it's like you know he's been sitting in prison for however
00:52:51
long just thinking about the fact that you're the reason which would be terrifying because thinking about
00:52:58
someone that evil thinking about you and at all any kind of like just vengeful thoughts against you would
00:53:06
>> having every single day to sit there in a cell thinking But then also sitting there and being
00:53:11
like [clears throat] >> what are you going to do about it, right? [laughter] >> And now you're dead. So that was the end
00:53:15
of your life was sitting there thinking about how I [ __ ] your life up. >> This was one of the
00:53:22
gnarliest but also at the same time most fascinating cases I think you've ever told.
00:53:28
>> It's a wild one. Like truly truly wild. >> The end of that is so chilling. >> It just wasn't their night.
00:53:36
>> No, I hate that. Yeah. I What a [ __ ] What a cold answer. It's like the It's
00:53:42
cold as ice that answer. >> Just no thought at all. Just >> It almost feels like he's trying to be
00:53:48
funny. >> Yeah. >> But it's like >> if you think that's funny, [ __ ] >> Yeah. That's dark. That's so dark.
00:53:54
>> Yeah. We >> If you read more about the the video is a wild >> Martin William Martin sitting there
00:54:01
watching that must have been like, "What the [ __ ] did you just show me?" He's like, "You really want me video?" Like
00:54:06
[laughter] I just didn't need to see this. >> The [ __ ] those people must see and then
00:54:10
just they have to go home to their families is nuts. >> Just like live >> like lawyers, defense attorneys,
00:54:16
prosecutors, police, likeards, anybody in that field. I >> you see the gnarly [ __ ]
00:54:22
>> It's true. >> It's wild. >> Yeah. So that's the uh that's the case of Richard Spec.
00:54:27
>> Well, I need to go um cut off the top of my head, take out my brain, and wash it
00:54:31
and put it back in what I have to do. >> And then I'll see you later. So, while they do that, we hope you keep
00:54:36
listening. >> And we hope you >> keep it weird, >> but not so weird as Richard Spec.
00:54:42
[music] Honey, >> never. >> Don't do that. >> Never do that. >> I don't even know how you could
00:54:47
possibly. Kora for life. Kora five ever. Keep it as weird as Kora. >> Yeah. [music] Keep it as badass as Kora.
00:54:54
Hell yeah. >> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music]