00:00:06
Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is [Music] Morbid. This is morbid. Oh, that's like Trixie and Kata
00:00:29
show. A yeah, cuz it's their show and not yours. Oh, they're so funny. I love them a lot. They make me laugh. They're
00:00:35
kind of like us, actually. They are. I saw I don't know if it's recent or not. I saw a clip of their show the other day
00:00:41
and I think Katia was housesitting for Trixie and Trixie was like a little intense and Katia was like, I can't
00:00:47
handle this. And I was like, that is us. Yes. Not that you're intense about your
00:00:51
home, but you're just intense period. Just intense period. Period. And I feel like the aesthetic is very
00:00:59
Yes. similar. But you're Katya in that sense. Exactly. And I'm a Trixie. Trixie. Trixie. Oh, yeah. I don't think
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um I mean we got we got some good stuff happening, but it's in the background and will be something you guys know
00:01:14
about in a little while. Yeah. Like like months. So, but like Well, but be psyched about that. Yeah. It's pretty
00:01:21
cool. My water is loud. It's loud. My water is loud. Covering it is loud, but if I leave it uncovered, I'll throw it.
00:01:29
There's cool stuff happening that we'll be, you know, we'll let you know about. Don't worry. Soon enough. Um, it's it's
00:01:35
like the Tobias thing. Don't worry, you'll find out. Yeah, we'll always tell you. TLDDR, don't worry. Also, how cool
00:01:42
was that? I know that weeks ago said, I'm just gonna slide that in there. Still very
00:01:47
cool face of How cool was that? How cool was that? Check that out. Uh, no, that was pretty cool. But um yeah, I'm trying
00:01:55
to think of any other updates that could be coming your way. I can't think of anything right now. Anything to talk
00:02:01
about? Um I was going to apologize cuz I'm a little bit sick, so my voice might be a little bit annoying, but also I
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find it kind of sultry. I was just going to say you're sultry. Thank you. So, I'm
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sure everyone will agree. Thank you. Yeah, that is a plane landing on my house right now. I apologize. She said,
00:02:21
she really said I'm saying, are you okay up there? Hello. Are you all right? Yellow jackets. How's
00:02:27
everyone doing flying? How you guys doing? I'm just not period. Um, I'm still scared. Remain scared. I remain
00:02:35
scared. Drew scared her. I don't know if I am. Drew and I are going on a trip in
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a couple weeks and I will not fly. We're driving. But how are you guys doing? Is
00:02:43
anybody else anybody have any tips, tricks, anything that's making you feel better about it right now? No. Um, one
00:02:50
thing I can tell you in case anybody else shares, which I know you do, shares my fear of flying and this uh, you know,
00:02:57
gestures broadly at the world has made it worse lately. Uh, follow some some pilots on TikTok. Okay. Uh, I'll start.
00:03:06
You know what I'm going to do for you guys? Because it's helped me and I want to share the love. Wow, look at you. I'm
00:03:11
gonna start sharing on my story some pilots that I follow uh in case anybody needs some like help getting through it
00:03:19
because Mikey's just playing music over there. He's like, "Shut the [ __ ] up, Elena. No one cares."
00:03:26
No, but I'll start sharing it because they have helped me. Um they they kind of bring you back to reality. Yeah. For
00:03:34
the situation because right now it's so scary. Um, but they'll bring you back to
00:03:38
a place of at least being able to be like, "Okay, someday I will step on a plane again." Yeah. Well, I think it
00:03:44
might be helpful. Right now is obviously scary, but it's also like being so Well, it's it's among everything. It's
00:03:51
so prominent right now. And it's just among all the chaos. So, I think it's it's definitely cuz it's a problem.
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That's for sure. But I think it's it can pilots like actual people who do this all the time. If you're listening and
00:04:04
you're a pilot, like we're pouring one out for you. Superhero shout out superhero. Uh but they can bring you to
00:04:11
a place of like, okay, like this isn't where we're going to be okay. So I'll start sharing them on my stories if you
00:04:17
need you're so kind if you need some help because it it's helpful. That's one thing I love Tik Tok for is like that
00:04:23
kind of [ __ ] Oh, [ __ ] I love Tik Tok. That's the one streaming thing I keep.
00:04:27
Yeah, I do love a Tik Tok thing. I love it for the recipes, for the pilots that tell me everything's going to be okay. I
00:04:34
love and organizations. What did you say? I said organizations like organ organizing.
00:04:44
Those are organizations. I got too much sleep last night. Sometimes that is detrimental. No, I actually believe
00:04:51
sometimes that I perform better on less sleep and then I'll get more sleep and I'm like, "Oh, maybe don't talk to me
00:04:56
today." Yeah, we went to we actually went to bed at like a decent time like upstairs to sleep because like we always
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just try to get like as much time like when the when the kids go to sleep, we try to like make the most of the time
00:05:09
between then and when we have to go to bed, like get things done that we can't get done while the kids are awake. So,
00:05:16
it's like it's hard cuz you want to like use up all that time. Like we'll try to
00:05:20
watch the shows we can't watch when they're awake, you know, like all that stuff. Mhm. Um, but it's not really
00:05:25
great when I'm going up to bed at like midnight every night. So, and then waking up like super duper cuz then you
00:05:30
wake up early with kids. So, it's like whatever. But we went up a little early last night and I have um my little watch
00:05:37
that like tracks sleep and it told me I got like 5 and 1/2 hours of core sleep. Damn. Which I think is like pretty
00:05:45
[ __ ] rad. The competition girly in me just wants to start wearing a watch when
00:05:48
I sleep to be like, I got more sleep than you. You probably would. I would. Yeah, but I'd win. So, yeah, you would.
00:05:54
At least I win that. Would it feel like a win? Yeah. Would I feel like a I'll take that win. You got to take your W's
00:06:00
where you can get that. It's true. Right now, especially, we got to take all the
00:06:03
W's we can. I'll I'll scoop that W right up. Um, speaking of W's and the opposite
00:06:09
of them, which is an L. Um, wait, what? Yeah, like like a lo. The way you looked at me like what? I
00:06:21
was like, "How is that an L?" That's fair. Wow. That's That's I'm sick. Okay. She's on that
00:06:30
cold medicine. Hey, so speaking of scissor pin like uh losers, we're talking about David Carpenter. Oh, the
00:06:40
uh trailside killer here. Yikes. Uh he's a he's a big L. He's a M maniac. There you go. How about that? There you go. Uh
00:06:49
yeah, he's definitely an M. He's an L. He's nothing good. Uh and when we last talked to you about him, he had been
00:06:57
released on parole, which was crazy. Cuz one thing about this case is it's a prime example of the system failing on
00:07:06
an extraordinary level. Yikes. I mean, failing superbly into oblivion. I have one of those coming up, too. Yeah.
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Several times they should have kept this guy behind bars, and they just kept letting him out. kept giving him slaps
00:07:18
on the wrist and like he would keep reoffending and that kind of thing like yeah and he kept escalating too. It's
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like what are you doing? And um when we when we last talked about this we talked
00:07:30
about Eda Kaine and John Kaine the couple who were very established hikers. Eda had gone out by herself and she
00:07:37
hadn't returned home. Um, they had eventually found Eda dead, unfortunately. And when we last talked
00:07:44
about it, poor John had just kind of like withered away after she died. Um, it's very, very sad. Now, that had
00:07:53
happened in um like early fall. Now, a few weeks later on September 6th, David Carpenter was discharged from the
00:08:01
halfway house cuz remember he had been parrolled to a halfway house where he was being like conditioned to kind of go
00:08:09
out back into society. It was a specific halfway house that was for like felons who were being reintroduced into
00:08:15
society. He never should have been among them. He should have been kept in jail.
00:08:19
Yeah. No, he's not the kind of person that can be reformed. No. So, he was discharged from the halfway house and
00:08:24
returned to his parents' house, which I was like, "Ooh." His former probation officer, Rich Woods, said, "I'd gone
00:08:31
over to the house a number of times before he got home from work. I talked to the parents to see how he was doing,
00:08:36
and as far as anyone would say, him moving back into the house had really not caused any problems, and things
00:08:44
seemed to be going well." That's really all they could go on at that point. Yeah. Uh, a few months later in February
00:08:50
1980, David found work in a keychain distributor and seemed to be meeting all the requirements for his parole. Okay.
00:08:58
But this is kind of what he does. He meets all the points that he has to and then something happens and he just flips
00:09:04
a switch. Yeah. Like veers completely. That's the problem. Now, on the morning of March 8th, 1980, Barbara Schwarz went
00:09:11
out for a jog on the trails of Mount Tam. That afternoon, another hiker on the trail spotted um 23-year-old Barbara
00:09:20
arguing with a man who appeared to be in his 20s, according to this person. Then
00:09:25
the man pulled a knife from his belt and started stabbing Barbara out of nowhere.
00:09:30
By the time the police arrived to the spot, because they immediately called the police. Yeah. By the time they got
00:09:35
to the spot where Barbara had been last seen, her attacker was nowhere to be seen and Barbara had bled to death from
00:09:41
multiple stab wounds. Oh my god. where she was stabbed. Yeah. Barbara Schwarz's death was the second murder on the
00:09:48
mountain in a pretty short period of time. And like we had talked about before, there had been deaths on this
00:09:53
mountain, of course, but as far as they knew, there wasn't any murders before this, right? Um, but unlike Edain's
00:09:59
murder, this time there was evidence recovered at the scene. In addition to finding a butcher knife that
00:10:05
investigators were virtually certain was the kill um the murder weapon. Yeah. They also found a pair of blood stained
00:10:13
eyelasses. Oh [ __ ] that'll tell you a lot. Always wild when they like are in such a frenzy that they leave something
00:10:20
that important. Now, there's no way of knowing who these glasses belonged to, but the
00:10:27
prescription very heavy bif focal. Oh. That if matched to the right person could be a very compelling evidence if
00:10:35
it was in a trial. Like this is this is not a regular bif focal. a very thick, heavy bifocal. Now, in their first
00:10:43
examination of the body, it looked like Barbara had gone to great lengths to fight back. Um, Sergeant Keading said
00:10:51
she was repeatedly stabbed, but she put up a hell of a fight. Now, based on her defensive wounds, sheriff's detectives
00:10:58
actually strongly suspected that Barbara's killer had most likely, very likely, been wounded in this attack.
00:11:05
Good. Yeah. Now, that night, a little past 700 p.m., David Carpenter arrived at the emergency room. Oh, imagine that.
00:11:13
In Peninsula Hospital in San Mateo, about 35 miles from where Barbara Schwarz's body had been discovered.
00:11:19
Stupid ass. He had a deep cut on his right hand and his thumb. When the attending doctor asked how he got this
00:11:26
injury, David said, quote, "There was an attempted robbery at a 7-Eleven store in
00:11:32
Birmingham, Burling, excuse me. I was attacked and injured by the holdup man. Now, so he's claiming I tried to stop a
00:11:41
holdup. I am a hero. I'm a hero and I got hurt there. So, the hospital policy was that any injuries sustained during
00:11:50
an illegal act had to be reported to police. The doctor did that. Despite no report of a robbery ever having been
00:11:59
received in that area, the officers that interviewed David Carpenter just accepted his story and they allowed him
00:12:06
to go on his way after being stitched up. What? So they saw that there was no reports of a robbery there and they just
00:12:13
said, "Okay, he said it though. They could have stopped him right now." Yeah, of course.
00:12:19
Like this could have been When I tell you the failures at every single layer here, that's also just wild. Like you
00:12:25
would think that that would hold him up for a little while at the Yeah, you would think. No, they just let him go.
00:12:29
He got stitched up, let him go. And the doctor did his job. He called them to try to figure out what was going on,
00:12:38
[Music] right? So, it wasn't until the next day that San Mateo police received the All
00:12:54
Points Bulletin about Barbara's murder. And by then, the interviewing officers had completely forgotten about him.
00:13:00
Like, they just didn't even they didn't even put the pieces together. Come on. So, things were relatively quiet in the
00:13:07
months after Barbara Schwarz's murder. Uh, detectives continued investigating her murder and the murder of Eteka, but
00:13:14
without any new information or evidence, they really weren't going to be able to
00:13:18
get anywhere. Then in October, the sheriff's department got another call about someone having gone missing at
00:13:24
Mount Tam. This time it was a couple. Oh. 19-year-old Rick Stoers and his girlfriend, 18-year-old Cindy Morland.
00:13:34
Okay. So, the couple had just been they had just gotten engaged. Oh. And Rick had gotten his orders from the Coast
00:13:40
Guard that were going to require him to report for his latest position at Point Reyes, which was a small coastal village
00:13:47
about, you know, an hour outside of San Francisco. Okay. On the morning of October
00:13:52
8th, Rick had picked up Cindy and they were headed out to Point Reyes to kind of check out the area to see where they
00:14:00
were going to be staying. Yeah. So later that afternoon they were shopping in that area and um another couple saw them
00:14:08
at a bookstore in town. Then they were seen a little bit later than that by two hikers, Sharon Melnik and Larry Drapkin.
00:14:17
They saw them on Bear Valley Trail. A little later, Melnik and Drapkin were hiking when they heard a succession of
00:14:24
loud booms. Um later they said they sounded like noises in rapid succession from a backfiring motorcycle. Um but
00:14:32
they couldn't really tell where it was coming from. They were having trouble like pinpointing it cuz sometimes when
00:14:37
you're in an area like that sounds sound like they're coming from either one place when it's a totally opposite one
00:14:44
or they sound like they're coming from everywhere. Even certain sounds I feel like do that. Like even we'll be
00:14:48
watching TV sometimes and it's a sound on TV that sounds like it's coming from like the back of our house. Yes, that
00:14:53
happens to us all the time too. I'll I think it's the girls like coming down or like ask yelling my name or something
00:14:59
and we'll always be pausing and like listening or going upstairs. There's so many times where I'm like was that our
00:15:03
alarm? Yeah. I'm like what the [ __ ] was that? So that evening Rick and Cindy had
00:15:08
plans to meet Cindy's sister Alice for dinner and when they didn't show up, she got very worried and around 9:00 p.m.
00:15:15
she called her brother and explained the situation. But he was like, "I don't know. Don't overreact." He was like,
00:15:20
"Maybe wait until tomorrow. see if Cindy shows up for work, which I was like, okay. Um, I don't really understand
00:15:28
that. But Alice said Cindy was supposed to work at her job on Sunday morning. I was a little overprotective, I think,
00:15:34
and I didn't want to worry anyone, which like I get that. Yeah. But the next day,
00:15:39
Cindy didn't show up to work, and she wasn't heard from from anybody. So, Alice and the rest of the family started
00:15:45
taking everything a little more seriously, and they reported both of them missing. A few days later on
00:15:51
October 15th, a third body of a w of a murdered woman was discovered on Mount Tam. Damn. A research scientist and
00:15:59
former Peace Corps consultant, 26-year-old Ann Alderson. So, she was visiting her parents in San Raphael over
00:16:07
the holiday weekend when on October 13th, she just decided to go for a solo hike on Mount Tam. So, she was literally
00:16:15
visiting like wouldn't have been there otherwise. And again, a research scientist and Peacecore consultant.
00:16:21
That's crazy. Like, come on. Um, so she had she had just wanted to go out for a solo hike on Mount Tam. And days later,
00:16:28
a witness named John Henry told police he'd seen an sitting alone in the amphitheater around 5:00 p.m. and had
00:16:35
considered warning her about the recent attacks that had occurred on the mountain. He just wanted to be like, you
00:16:41
should just be a little careful here, especially like being alone, he said. But she was so deep in introspection.
00:16:46
and I didn't want to bother or scare her. Oh man. Yeah. So Anne was one of two people that Henry saw in the
00:16:52
mountain that day. He also saw a man in the parking lot. He later said he was just hanging around. He was in his late
00:17:00
40s, early 50s, but there was something different about him. He was simply standing there all but motionless and
00:17:06
wearing street clothing, slacks, and a Hawaiianike shirt. The man would later be identified as David Carpenter. It
00:17:12
reminds you of that thing where it's like, would you rather run into a bear in the woods or a man? A bear. The next
00:17:18
day, two park rangers were out on the mountain looking for some wild ridgeback hogs that had been spotted in the area
00:17:24
when they received an APB about a young woman and Alderson who had gone missing on the mountain. According to the
00:17:31
bulletin, Anne had told her parents she'd be back by 6 that night, but they waited until the following day to report
00:17:37
her missing. Search and rescue teams along with family and friends had combed the mountain that night looking for
00:17:43
Anne, but found no sign of her. It wasn't until the next day, October 15th, that Anne's body was discovered in an
00:17:51
area of overgrowth about a/4 mile from the amphitheater where she had last been seen by John Henry. Oh, that's awful.
00:17:58
Unlike the other two victims, none of Anne's clothing or jewelry had been taken except for one gold
00:18:04
earring. Yeah, that's so chilling. She had been sexually assaulted and the cause of death was a gunshot wound to
00:18:11
the right side of her head. And it was from a quote high-powered weapon like a rifle. Yeah. Although she was clothed
00:18:18
when her body was discovered, investigators believe that her attacker redressed her after. So she was
00:18:25
undressed and scarier. Yeah. That afternoon, the sheriff's department shut down Mount Tam to the public, and
00:18:32
detectives searched the area for evidence and found, among other things, a metal fragment from the bullet jacket
00:18:38
and Anne's underwear, which appeared to contain semen that the investigators believed
00:18:44
was likely left by her killer. Right. Although DNA testing was obviously not available at the time, this sample was
00:18:50
analyzed by lab technicians and determined to be quote a type consistent with about 6 to 8% of the general
00:18:57
population. Well, at least that's small. That's a small something. But it's like
00:19:01
uh now on December 2nd, 1980, about 6 weeks after Anne's murder, teams of park rangers were searching the mountain
00:19:09
looking for 25-year-old Shauna May and 22-year-old Diane O' Connell who had been reported missing a few days
00:19:16
earlier. My god. When so many missing people when they made So they're looking for Shauna May and Diane O'Connell and
00:19:25
they made a horrific discovery. So Okonnell and May had gone out for a walk along the national seashore at Point
00:19:31
Reyes on November 28th. And when the they failed to return home that afternoon, they were tourists. So people
00:19:39
were like, "Where the [ __ ] would they have gone, right? They were immediately reported missing." It was in a heavily
00:19:44
wooded and sparsely traveled area on Mount Tam where they were found. Uh they were both unfortunately murdered. They
00:19:52
were nude and had been shot in the head, both of them. Gosh. Based on the initial
00:19:57
evaluation, it looked like Diane O'Connell had been strangled by quote, "Something like a narrow piece of cord
00:20:03
of wire, and a pair of women's underwear had been shoved in her mouth." Oh my. There was no evidence to indicate that
00:20:11
O'Connell had been raped. Shauna May, on the other hand, had been sexually assaulted before being shot, and there
00:20:18
were ligature marks around one one of her wrists which indicated she had been bound at some point.
00:20:24
Now, the discovery of two more murder victims on Mount Tam was bad enough, but less than an hour later, rangers
00:20:32
discovered the decomposed remains of Cindy Morland and Rick Stoers. Oh. About 200 yards from where they found Okonnell
00:20:40
and May. Jesus. Both bodies were found lying face down in what appeared to be a shallow, very crudely dug grave. bullet
00:20:49
wounds were um in both of the back of their heads. Um they had been in the woods for about seven weeks at this
00:20:56
point. So Wow. They had undergone a lot of decomposition and Cindy's remains had
00:21:02
to be identified through dental records. That's always so sad. Yeah. When they left Morland's house on the day they
00:21:07
went missing, neither Cindy nor Rick had said anything about going hiking. That's
00:21:13
the problem. So when they reported missing, they just never thought to look in the area of Mount Tam cuz no one knew
00:21:18
they were hiking, right? It was like a it was just like they just spontaneous thing. Now the body count now is at
00:21:25
seven. Jesus. And the sheriff's office finally started, you know, we're like, you know what? I think there is one
00:21:31
killer that's responsible for all these victims. This doesn't feel like just a coincidence, right? Um, Sheriff Al
00:21:38
Alenstein told reporters the two most recent victims may have been slain by the killer to draw attention to the
00:21:45
earlier killings. Um, he said, "We're looking, we believe, at an individual who has strong feelings about women."
00:21:53
And he also said, "Sometimes the Slayer can control his feelings and other times
00:21:57
he cannot." Would you do that? When you think of it, like he killed Diane O'Connell and Shauna
00:22:04
May just to draw attention because he left them right he did it and left them right near where Rick and Cindy were.
00:22:12
For him to do that just so that they to be like, "Oh, you haven't found them yet." Right. So I'll just take two other
00:22:18
people's lives. Like that is so [ __ ] chilling. That line of thinking is just that's so chilling. Wild. And it's very
00:22:26
him. Yeah. Uh, so the news that there was yet another serial killer because remember we're in that time period and
00:22:32
in that in that place that location where serial killers were running a [ __ ] muck around here. They were
00:22:39
confusing the cases, confusing the victims. Like they were overlapping. They were working in the same kind of
00:22:45
areas. Like it was a wild time. It was I can't imagine being in this time this place in the United States at this time.
00:22:52
Especially as a woman. I really can't imagine it. No. Horrifying. So this just the news that there was yet another one
00:22:59
of these [ __ ] operating in the San Francisco area was met with a lot of justifiable fear and anxiety from
00:23:06
residents. Howenstein said in a warning to the residents in the area, "Without question, this individual is capable of
00:23:13
striking again," which must have been horrifying to hear. That's very scary. He said, "He commits his acts in an
00:23:18
effort to achieve psychological relief, but the murders will not satisfy him, and the problem will get worse." And in
00:23:25
the same statement, he released a sketch of the man they believe was responsible.
00:23:29
And he was described as quote, "A cleancut man in his late 20s or early 30s dressed in hiking clothes with a
00:23:36
knapsack on his back." Okay. And according to witness statements, he's beginning to fall apart psychologically.
00:23:42
And so Howenstein said, "Hikers especially, remain vigilant and do not go on solo hikes." Yeah. Like no more
00:23:50
solo hiking, everybody. But it's what's even worse is you're not safe even with two. Well, yeah, because look, Cindy and
00:23:57
Rick were together. Cindy and Rick and Diane and Shauna. Yeah. And like you do inherently, I think as a woman sometimes
00:24:03
feel a little bit more defended when you're with like a man. But that didn't even matter either. Yeah. Like that's
00:24:09
very genuinely scary. It's horrifying. Now, investigators checked the local sex offender registry for anyone who might
00:24:16
match these descriptions, but because Carpenter was still technically a federal prisoner on probation, he was
00:24:22
not yet required to sign up for the registry, and so he hadn't. If you're out, you should have to sign up for
00:24:28
that. Agreed. Like, what? Another fail. Yep. Also, at the time, this is even worse. At the time, California's sex
00:24:37
offender registry program was woefully underfunded. Really? And overworked. And it was run by three people. That
00:24:46
department. What? Yeah. It lacked even the basic resources to operate as a department, much less operate as like a
00:24:54
functional arm of law enforcement. Like three people are having to deal with all
00:24:59
this. Insane. So the fact that he fell through the cracks in that scenario, not surprising at all. awful. I would have
00:25:05
been surprised if they actually found him on the registry. Truly. Now, as for David Carpenter, the sheriff was more or
00:25:11
less kind of accurate with what he said. He was starting to fall apart psychologically, or you know, he was
00:25:17
becoming more reckless at the very least. [Music] Now, on March 29th, 1981, 20-year-old Ellen Hansen and her
00:25:39
boyfriend Steven Herold were camping near Henry Cowell Park in Santa Cruz, not far from Point Reyes. Okay. This was
00:25:47
a popular area at the time, and it had about 90 other campers on site at the time. If Henry Cowell Park in Santa Cruz
00:25:55
sounds a little familiar, kind of did. This is the same camping area that Herbert Mullen took um solitary hikes
00:26:02
in. Oh. And brutally ended up murdering 18-year-old David Oler, 18-year-old Robert Spectre, 19-year-old Brian Scott
00:26:10
Card, and 15year-old Mark Draelbus in their tent. Oh, wow. This is the same place. And around the same time. Yep.
00:26:17
And this is where um Ellen Hansen and her boyfriend Steven Herold were camping. Oh man. So that morning, Hansen
00:26:25
and Herold woke up early and went for a walk along the beach. Um, for much of the walk, they were alone, but
00:26:32
eventually Steve spotted another person on the beach. This was a man wearing what looked to be a backpack and very
00:26:38
heav he heavy bif focal glasses. We got them replaced. And he was walking towards them. No thanks. So as they got
00:26:45
closer, Steve and Ellen could hear what Steve later described as quote shuffling
00:26:50
steps and then heavy breathing and cursing. But they thought like whatever and they
00:26:56
just kind of like because they were walking towards each other but like going past each other. So you're just
00:27:00
going to say like hey. So he said they nodded a hello that impeded too and then they just kept walking. Now later that
00:27:07
afternoon and nothing came of that. Yeah. So they were just like whatever. Later that afternoon, Steven Ellen ran
00:27:12
into that same man from the beach again. This time while they were hiking Ridge Trail on Mount Tam when he saw them, he
00:27:20
said, "Oh, I see we run into each other again." So, they just kind of were like,
00:27:24
"Huh? Yeah, like weird." And then as they're being like, "Oh, yeah, that's like funny." As they're saying that, he
00:27:31
reached into the waistband of his pants and produced a revolver. Can you imagine? You just see this man again and
00:27:39
he's like, "Oh, funny. We run into each other again." And you're like, "Yeah." And he's just puts a gun in your face.
00:27:44
Like what the like the fear? The fear and just like the split second change there cuz he just pointed it right at
00:27:51
them. My god. Like that would just destroyed me. Like what the [ __ ] the universe? Like why did I cross this
00:27:57
man's path again? Now, at the time, Steve was fixated on his the man's hands, which he later described as
00:28:04
extraordinarily white and clean, which is strange. He also noticed the strange way that the man was holding the gun. He
00:28:11
said it was like very specific. He said he had pulled back the hammer, but had his thumb between the hammer and the
00:28:18
firing pin cuz he's injured. Yeah. So, if the hammer slipped, it would hit his thumb rather than discharging a bullet,
00:28:26
too. Right. Like, which is strange. Um the man said, "If you don't want to get hurt, do what I say. Put your hands on
00:28:32
your head and you won't get hurt." So he was like, "This is weird." So he's thinking we're just being robbed. Also,
00:28:39
him putting his finger his thumb between that. Probably just armed him. Probably
00:28:42
made him think like, "Okay, even if he pulls the trigger, we're not being fired at." So to me, that would probably make
00:28:48
me be like, "Okay, this guy's bluffing, right?" Like this is [ __ ] up. Let's just do what he says. And I think that's
00:28:53
why Steve was like, "Okay, I think he's just robbing us and he's trying to threaten us with a with a gun thing." So
00:28:59
Steve pushed Ellen out of the way and thrust his wallet at this man, but the man was like, "No." And this is one of
00:29:07
the most chilling things I have ever heard. Oh no. He said to him, "I don't want any money. I want something else."
00:29:15
You know what I mean? All I want to do is rape her. Oh my god. said this to her boyfriend. Steve was probably like,
00:29:24
"What the actual fuck?" And what do you And imagine Ellen being like like what the [ __ ] Like I What do you do in that
00:29:33
scenario? I have no idea. I have no idea. And it didn't It's so scary. It's like so scary. And apparently it didn't
00:29:40
occur to Steve in the moment, but he later said that the man was slowly pushing them back off the trail and into
00:29:46
the woods as this was happening. and Steve and Ellen were moving backwards and he was just kind of like advancing
00:29:53
them space and and like that he's like getting them out of the way. Mhm. Now eventually Steve and Ellen made a move
00:30:00
to run and things just erupted into chaos. Uh Steve said I heard two shots and then I felt like somebody hit my
00:30:06
neck with a sledgehammer. I remember falling to the ground with a buzzing sensation in my arm and everything was
00:30:12
slowing down. The bullet had ripped through Steve's neck and severed an artery in his arm and then had settled
00:30:20
in his sternum. Oh my god. So, he went unconscious. I'm sure. When he regained consciousness a few moments later, the
00:30:28
first thing he saw was Ellen laying beside him and her head was resting in a pool of blood. The man who who had shot
00:30:36
them both looked like he was walking away. And Steve knew if he didn't stop him, they might never find him and he
00:30:42
might hurt someone else. So despite being incredibly injured, Steve forced himself to his feet. Oh my god. He's
00:30:50
been shot in the neck and an artery has been severed. Not only the fact that he's gravely injured, but the fact that
00:30:55
he knows that this man still has a gun and could shoot him again. He's still going up against because he doesn't want
00:31:00
somebody else to get hurt. Wow. He forces himself to his feet and slowly starts walking after him, walking up the
00:31:06
trail in the direction of the observation deck. And he hadn't made it very far before he found a father and
00:31:12
son hiking the trail. And he's like hysterical and he's slipping into like shock at this point. Yeah. And Steve did
00:31:18
his best to explain to them what happened, but he wasn't making a lot of sense. And Lee Fritz, who was one of the
00:31:26
guys, said he told us that he and his girlfriend had been shot and he thought she was dead. Oh. which like I can't
00:31:31
even imagine having to say that. No. So, with the help of some other hikers, Fritz managed to get Steve to
00:31:38
the observation deck where they called the police and later several witnesses on the trail that day recalled hearing
00:31:44
the gunshots and passing a man in a gold jacket as they rushed to see what the commotion was about. It's also just so
00:31:50
crazy to think that like so many people that day were just out for hikes. Like that guy that Steve ran into is just on
00:31:56
a hike with his son. Yeah. And like think of like the head space that they're in. Like they were like, "Oh,
00:32:01
nature. Beautiful." Yeah. And this guy woke up from being shot next to his girlfriend, seeing his girlfriend next
00:32:07
to him. So, two of the hikers from the observation deck ventured out into the woods and found Ellen's body. She was
00:32:14
dead. Um, she had been killed by a gunshot wound to her head. The two men sat with her body until the rescue team
00:32:22
arrived, which I'm glad they did that. In the meantime, Steve was loaded into Lee Fritz's camper van and they started
00:32:28
their way down to the hospital. So, like all these campers are like helping each
00:32:32
other out. When they reached the parking lot, Fritz spotted a man driving a Volkswagen Beetle that appeared to be
00:32:38
stuck in the mud. Good. Um Fritz said, "Something about the rearview mirror caught my eye. It was extra large for
00:32:45
the car." Like, so it was just a very specific thing. As they passed, Lee and the other driver made direct eye contact
00:32:52
with one another. And it occurred to him that it was the same man that he passed
00:32:57
on the trail just before he found Steve. God, can you imagine? And he said, he said he yelled, "There's there goes the
00:33:04
person I think committed the crime." But he said at the moment I had to get Steve
00:33:08
to a hospital. I was worried he was going to die. Like I couldn't stop and try to apprehend this man. Like you have
00:33:14
to weigh out what is more important. He's like, "So I just had to get Steve to where he needed to go." Now, despite
00:33:20
the serious physical and psychological trauma that he'd endured, Steve was able to provide a very detailed description
00:33:27
of the killer. That's incredible. Um, and he used that description to refine the existing composite of the sketch of
00:33:34
the suspect. Nice. The problem though was that they still had no one to match the drawing to. Um, and unfortunately,
00:33:40
it was going to take one more murder before this man was finally identified as David Carpenter. Jesus Christ. Now,
00:33:48
with the exception of the attack on Lois Deandradi in 1960, all of David Carpenters's victims were completely
00:33:55
unknown to him and were just kind of like victims of opportunity. Unfortunately, for that reason, it's
00:34:01
really strange that in choosing his last victim here, he chose someone that he knew like pretty well and could easily
00:34:09
be traced back to him with very minimal effort. Cuz again, psychologically, he's
00:34:14
un unwinding. He's unwinding. Now, on May 2nd, 1981, just one month after the murder of Alan Hansen and the attempted
00:34:21
murder of Steve Herdle, 20-year-old Heather Skaggs was attending the same trade school where David Carpenter was
00:34:28
working as a printer. And she mentioned that she was looking to buy a used car since hers had finally broken down for
00:34:34
good. Well, as it happened, Carpenter told her he had a friend in Santa Cruz who had a car for sale at a pretty good
00:34:40
price, and he was happy to drive her over there after they both finished their shifts.
00:34:45
Okay, if she could get the car, Carpenter pointed out he could help her get a job at the school. Heather agreed,
00:34:52
you know, there. But there were two things she did find unusual about this whole thing. Carpenter had told her to
00:34:57
bring cash and not tell anyone when she was going. Okay, that's strange. Yeah. So, Heather's mother, Mary Jones Scaggs,
00:35:06
said that Heather called her that afternoon and seemed upset and was like, "I feel like something's weird about
00:35:12
this." She actually broke into tears at one point. I mean, she said it didn't it
00:35:15
doesn't feel right. Yeah. So, her mother begged her like, "Trust your instincts.
00:35:20
Don't go with this guy." But Heather was like, "I can't pass up the opportunity for a job." Which is so sad. I know. And
00:35:27
so, she told her mom, "Don't worry. Don't worry about it, Mom. You just wish that somebody else could have given her
00:35:31
a ride." I know. And that was the last time Mary Jones Scaggs talked to her daughter. Oh my god. Now, later that
00:35:37
night, when no one had heard from Heather, some of her friends reached out to David Carpenter for information,
00:35:43
actually, because they knew the two had plans that afternoon because some people
00:35:46
were there when they made these plans. Yeah. But David claimed that they hadn't met up as planned because, quote, he
00:35:52
overslept and had car trouble. Okay. So, because multiple people knew she had plans to go look at a car with David
00:35:59
Carpenter, when Heather Heather was reported missing to police, his name came up repeatedly. Yeah. But when
00:36:05
investigators interviewed him, he just said, "I overslept and my card wouldn't work." Like, "I didn't see her that
00:36:11
day." You know, it's just a coincidence that I'm a violent criminal. And it's it's easy alibi. Just I overslept. I
00:36:17
didn't see her. Now, at the same time that investigators were looking into his background in the context of the Heather
00:36:23
Scaggs case, the composite sketch that had been updated with the help of Steve was finally starting to get some
00:36:29
traction. Nice. And the first tip came in from a 69year-old woman in Benlman, California named Robera Patterson. She
00:36:38
reported recognizing the man in the sketch as a man she'd been on a cruise with 26 years old earlier. Patterson
00:36:45
wouldn't have remembered someone from that long ago, she said normally, but she recalled being very disturbed by
00:36:51
Carpenter, and it was David Carpenter, because he was making her teenage daughter very uncomfortable because he
00:36:58
wouldn't stop touching her shoulders. Ew. Um Patterson told a reporter from the San Francisco Chronicle, "I just
00:37:04
didn't like the guy." It turned out this was not the first time that Patterson had reported this particular man to the
00:37:10
police. Years earlier, she called police after seeing a sketch of the Zodiac on TV. Oh [ __ ] Yeah, we're about to cover
00:37:17
that. [Music] Now, by the time they called him in for an interview about the disappearance of
00:37:35
Heather Scaggs, investigators already suspected him of being involved in the murders at Mount Tam, but in person, he
00:37:42
was much less believable as a threat to anyone. Um, Detective Walt Robinson said, "When he sat down and started
00:37:49
talking to Carpenter, the first time he opened his mouth, I thought, my god, this guy can't possibly be involved in
00:37:54
the Santa Cruz homicide." In addition to just appearing pretty meek, according to
00:37:59
them, like he just didn't seem like a, you know, judging a book by its cover, I suppose. They were also saying he was
00:38:05
struggling to get a single sentence out without stuttering. Uh when they asked about Heather, his response caught their
00:38:12
detectives off guard because he said, "I hope she hasn't been killed. I hope she
00:38:16
hasn't been raped." But they said he stuttered very hard on the words killed and raped. Oh. So that's why it like
00:38:23
really hit them. They were like, first of all, why would you say that? That's just bizarre. And second of all, like
00:38:28
why are those words hitting so hard? Yikes. The more he talked, the more investigators started seeing the facade
00:38:35
of a mild, awkward man to someone who was clearly very more controlling, manipulative, and cunning. To Robinson
00:38:44
and his partner, Carpenter's alibi seemed way too perfect. His descriptions were too well rehearsed. Everything was
00:38:51
too much. So, sensing he would need to establish some kind of rapport with the suspect, Robin. Robinson told Carpenter
00:38:57
that like David, he had also been forced to take dance classes as a kid and would
00:39:02
often get made fun of by his peers. At that, David calmly rose from his chair and for nearly 10 minutes, he went
00:39:10
through all the dance positions he could remember, moving fluidly around this little interrogation room as the
00:39:17
detectives just watched him without any emotion. That he needs to be hospitalized. You
00:39:25
would see that in a movie and be like that's too much. Be like that's a lot. Like that was crazy. No, that is it's
00:39:30
also like he did weirdly sad. Yeah, but like I don't feel bad for him but Yeah. Like the entire performance from you
00:39:39
know the awkward, you know, weird embarrassment and the the dance routine. It all felt very planned though to them
00:39:48
cuz at first when you hear that you're like oh that's like he's just really like he's really going out there you
00:39:54
know he's trying to make it seem like he's but to them they felt like this is part of it. They said he was playing a
00:39:59
game with them. Yeah. Uh as he danced David said I know you guys think I'm the number one suspect as he's dancing. Oh.
00:40:08
And they reminded him that they were from missing persons not homicide. Uhhuh. And but all David said was, "Hey,
00:40:16
I'm the number one suspect. I should if I should be if I'm not." What the [ __ ] And the detectives
00:40:22
concluded their interview and took three Polaroid photos of Carpenter, then allowed him to leave. That's so bizarre.
00:40:28
They said it was all It's all felt very rehearsed, like he planned all of it. It's he literally did a dance rehearsal.
00:40:35
Yeah. In the days that after that, FBI agents working with the Santa Cruz County Sheriff's Office ran a 247 tail
00:40:42
on David Carpenter. Oh, I always love that. And during that time, they witnessed him attempting to sell his .38
00:40:47
pistol, among other things. And in the meantime, Santa Cruz homicide detectives continued to investigate the Hansen
00:40:54
murder, focusing on David Carpenter. It was during an interview with his former girlfriend, Candy Townsen, that the
00:41:01
first break came. During their conversation, Townsen mentioned a gold jacket of David's that had gone missing
00:41:08
in early April. Oh [ __ ] Which he told her had been stolen out of his car. I bet. Detective Stony Brook said, and his
00:41:16
name is Stony Brook. That's iconic. I just need to take Can we all just take hold space for that? He had to be That's
00:41:23
a great name. It is. Um he said, "Up to this point, we lacked the nexus, the connection. We had him fitting the
00:41:30
description, but we could not put him at the scene with the gun in his hand. That
00:41:34
jacket was it. The nexus. I love it. Only Stony Only Detective Stony Brook could say it like that. It's true. And
00:41:41
only Detective Stony Brook would say Nexus. Exactly. That's the only that only Stony. Now, along with the pistol
00:41:48
and the witness descriptions, the jacket put David Carpenter at the scene of the
00:41:52
Hansen murder the previous month. That afternoon, Brooke called the FBI surveillance team and reported what
00:41:59
they'd learned on the afternoon of May 15th. David Carpenter was arrested for the murder of Ellen Hansen. Following
00:42:05
his arrest and arraignment for the murder, seven witnesses, including Steve Herold, identified Carpenter as the man
00:42:12
who they'd seen fleeing Mount Tam on the day Ellen Hansen was murdered. About a week later, on May 24th, hikers walking
00:42:20
um along the railway at Big Basin State Park. unfortunately discovered the nude decomposing body of Heather Skaggs. Oh,
00:42:29
she had been sexually assaulted and shot in the face with a 38 caliber handgun. My god. The same gun used in the
00:42:36
shooting of Ellen Hansen and Steve Herold. During the trial, one of Carpenters's friends, Molly Pernell,
00:42:42
testified that she had purchased the gun at David's request. And two other witnesses testified to having been shown
00:42:48
the gun by David Carpenter at various points in the previous year. Yikes. During his interviews, Carpenter claimed
00:42:54
not to own a gun, but one of the former Halfway House residents David lived with
00:43:00
had turned on him and confessed to having been given the gun by Carpenter and asked to destroy it. Oh my god.
00:43:06
Yeah. You just like the fact that he thought that was never going to come back. You really think they're going to
00:43:11
have your back here? No. Like come on. That man led police to where he had thrown it and the weapon was recovered.
00:43:19
Whoa. Yep. In late July 1981, David Carpenter was charged with five counts of murder, rape, and attempted rape in
00:43:27
Santa Cruz County. Also, in his 1981 mugsh shot, he's wearing a [ __ ] monogrammed sweater. Yeah, he's he's
00:43:33
terrifyingly normal. He's wearing a straightup monogrammed sweater. I don't know what the monogram is because it's
00:43:37
not for his name. Yeah. But which is even scarier somehow. I don't know why. It's just it's just I'm like, whose is
00:43:45
that? I hate it. Yeah. Now, at a trial was scheduled, but in the months that followed, additional charges were added
00:43:51
for the murders in Marane County, and that complicated the case. Things were further complicated by multiple requests
00:43:58
for a change of venue. After Carpenters's lawyers argued that there had been too much press coverage in
00:44:03
Santa Cruz, and the jury was going to be biased. Yeah. Yeah. By the time the case
00:44:07
went to trial in April 1984, it took nearly 3 months to impanel a jury in Los Angeles where the case had been moved.
00:44:15
Now, in July 1984, after a three-month trial, David Carpenter was found guilty of all charges in the Santa Cruz cases.
00:44:23
And in November of that year, he was sentenced to death. Goodbye. Two years later, in September 1986, Carpenter was
00:44:30
tried for the murders committed in Maring County, where he was also found guilty of all charges. And in 1988, was
00:44:37
also sentenced to death for those as well. Damn, two times. You're going to die twice. Oof. Given the complexity of
00:44:43
the cases and the fact that death penalty cases are automatically appealed, y David Carpenter appealed
00:44:48
those convictions and sentences to the state supreme court several times. Although two of his convictions for the
00:44:55
Hansen and Skaggs murders were at one point overturned on a technicality. Oh, [ __ ] technicality. The
00:45:01
convictions and sentences for those murders were reinstated upon review. Uh David Carpenter has always denied
00:45:09
killing or sexually assaulting any of the individuals he was convicted of killing. Yeah. Yeah. Despite a wild
00:45:17
amount of forensic evidence linking him to the murders. Like there is no question whatsoever. Yeah. In the years
00:45:24
since he was incarcerated, he's been linked through DNA to the 1979 murder of Mary Bennett, who was killed while
00:45:31
jogging at Land's End. and he remains the prime suspect in the murders of Etica and Barbara Schwarz who they were
00:45:38
never able to pin him for. As of today, he remains incarcerated at San Quentin prison and he is 94 years old and he is
00:45:47
the oldest resident on California's death row. That's [ __ ] That is some [ __ ] that that man is allowed to
00:45:54
live be allowed to live that long. And I I hope that death row is just [ __ ] awful, though. Oh, I hope he's having
00:46:00
the worst time. I hope he's having the [ __ ] horse. I hope he can't dance. I hope they don't let him dance. Oh, yeah.
00:46:05
I hope they I hope they just Oh, I hope he lives with a constant hangail. Yeah. And I hope he always has a cut inside of
00:46:15
his nose. And I hope that heals it is always dripping. Always dripping. And that mice are in his cell. And I hope
00:46:21
his eye twitches and then it stops so he thinks it's gone, but then it just goes
00:46:26
for like a week straight. Yeah. And I hope he has a dull headache. And then um I hope he has an abscess in his tooth.
00:46:32
Several teeth actually. That's crazy. And a sore throat. Oh, definitely. I can never pinpoint why. And no cough drops
00:46:38
in prison. Nope. Except for Mucinx. And he's one of those people who Mucinx makes puke. Mucinex makes me nauseous.
00:46:45
Me, too. And I hope it makes him nauseous. And they only have that. You heard it here first. Yeah. Wow. That's a
00:46:52
really sad story. the fact that so many of those deaths never would have happened if the justice system had
00:46:58
actually prevailed. Can we tell we got to tell a story soon where the justice system like does good. Yeah, we
00:47:04
definitely need to find one of those because this was not one of those situations. David Carpenter's an
00:47:09
[ __ ] Those poor people just living their lives and they were just victims of opportunity. It's awful. It is. But a
00:47:17
lot of like civilians in this case, a lot of the detectives did a great job on this case and a lot of uh civilians
00:47:23
really pulled it together in this case. I feel like like um camping culture and like hiking culture, those people really
00:47:30
stick together. Yeah. They take care of each other, which like good for you guys. Whenever people go hiking on the
00:47:35
um like do like the crazy Pacific Coast Highway, what Pacific Coast Highway did you say? No. Why? Well, that's a thing.
00:47:42
Uh the Pacific Coast Trail, right? Is that it? In my head, I was thinking like the Appalachin Trail. Now I'm just
00:47:50
thinking Panama Pacific Crest Trail. That's not in my head, but I don't know what it's called. So, at least you had a
00:47:56
stab at it. The Reese Witherspoon uh movie where she throws her hiking boots. It's like a whole
00:48:03
thing. And they talk about it in uh Gilmore Girls, the new one. I know what you're talking about. Yeah. Pacific
00:48:08
Crest Trail. I was right. Okay. I was like, I know I'm not totally off on here. Anyway, she was going to do wild.
00:48:15
So, that's what it is. It's wild. Yeah, the Pacific the Appalachin Trail I think
00:48:20
is part of that whole thing. Okay, so you were also correct. See, look at us both being great. Basically, my point
00:48:25
was just that when people do that big long trail and they and they go wild or they do wild, people take care of them.
00:48:32
Everybody takes care of each other during the wild going. They do. I think people who it's a community. people who
00:48:38
hike. I think that's just like in your bones and in your blood and like which makes you pretty [ __ ] great. I wish I
00:48:44
could hike. I get keep looking out for each other and please be careful. And with that being said, we hope you keep
00:48:50
listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you don't do and go wild.
00:48:57
Wild. Wild. Wild. [Music] [Music] [Music]