00:00:06
hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elena and this is [Music] morbid this is morbid I almost did the
00:00:28
thing where I say and I'm Molina I almost said I'm Ash no you did no I really did because we were just talking
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about names what yeah that's weird I really almost did I really almost did too not a bit I believe you like I'm
00:00:41
being real yeah cuz we were saying one of my biggest pet peeves in life and Elena was saying hers too I will
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introduce myself to somebody and say like hey I'm Ash my name's Ash and they'll be like oh my God Ashley so nice
00:00:53
to meet you yeah and you're like that's not what I said suck my butt my name is Ash like of course legally in the
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government in the eyes of the government it's Ashley see mine has been my entire
00:01:04
life and it's been like hi I'm Elena and they're like Alana that's great okay see
00:01:08
it and you're like that's a different name that's a completely different name that's spelled different it's said
00:01:13
different it's different it's a different name yeah that's stupid there are people named Elana correct there are
00:01:19
people named Elena I'm one of the ones that are named Elena so why are you calling me that's like being like oh hi
00:01:25
Carl it's like that's a different name I wish they would just do that you just said a different name hi Molina what's
00:01:31
up Carl yeah I like essentially that's what you're doing it's a totally different name I love that a lot I never
00:01:37
understood it I will never understand it no and that's you know that's for that on that I've even had people ask me like
00:01:45
if it if my name is like ashly because of the way that it's spelled and I'm like that's stupid that says
00:01:51
Le or Ash Ash I like that Ash imagine if we had to start podcast and I would have to
00:02:01
say hey weirdos I'm ashay I'm Ash no one would continue listen they'd be like I don't think so not with the way
00:02:10
it's spelled it's like no that's Ashley I'm Ashley it's like are you trying too hard I think you are no no I also was
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thinking the other day one day I'm Pro like hopefully going to be a grandma and I'm going to be Grandma Ash your
00:02:25
grandma's name should not be Ash I there's going to be a whole chunk no okay of people who are going to be wild
00:02:34
grandma like I I have no problem with this name but Grandma Britney no yeah right it sounds funny that's not a
00:02:41
grandma name it's a very normal name like but when you think of a grandma name you think of like those very
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classic you know very of a certain time names because that's all we've all ever had but we are
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entering a phase where we're going to beting and some grandpas yeah like we're going to have like Grandpa creu stop it
00:03:05
floating around in there for going with the same family there and like wait Grandpa cash cuz people name their kids
00:03:11
cash which honestly is pretty flex but well that's the thing like these names are fine yeah I love them name your
00:03:16
child whatever the hell you want but Grandpa cash I'm obsessed with that actually I think it's going to be
00:03:21
awesome it's going to be a whole new world it's going to be a fun generation of grandparents if we make it that far
00:03:26
we will I'm not going to I'm going to elaborate cuz I have therapy appointment tomorrow to talk about my end of the
00:03:31
world anxiety I'm taking care of it that's right self-care you know but yeah we're going to be fine but Grandma Ash
00:03:38
Grandma Ash that's crazy grandma Elena is not that crazy no it kind of sounds like you love it all day no I'm just
00:03:44
kidding no I think it just works yeah I know I think it's just Elena is like a Timeless name I feel wow thanks you're
00:03:50
welcome I like that I'm just named Ashley for no [ __ ] reason literally none my middle name
00:03:57
doesn't even mean anything who named me dad mom what the [ __ ] what the [ __ ] what
00:04:03
the [ __ ] truly what the [ __ ] but yeah all that to say names you know nothing
00:04:08
really nothing really it was like an echo nothing it was like an EO that's what I was going
00:04:16
to say oh all right well it's my case today it's Ash Centric it's Nana Ash Centric Nana Ash and I have a wild case
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I have been loving Texas lately you have know you been in a place I'm a Texas whir and today we're going crazy we're
00:04:33
going to be in Texas and Florida what a [ __ ] trip wow what a [ __ ] trip we're taking together you didn't prepare
00:04:41
me ahead of time I didn't but here we are uh so yeah I have I I don't want to say too much about it right off the bat
00:04:47
cuz if I say too much it'll just kind of give it away so I'm just going to start
00:04:51
I'm just going go right into it yeah so it starts with Dorothy Marie robard she was born in Texas in
00:04:58
1977 as the only child of Steven and Beth Robards uh Steven and Beth they were high school sweethearts that's
00:05:05
where they met and they were both super duper popular in high school oh my God oh my God Beth was a standout athlete
00:05:12
and also the president of the school's National Honor Society so she was young in doing it and then when they graduated
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and each of them turned 18 in 1974 they decided to get married right before Stephen entered the Navy and actually
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started a 4-year Tour of Duty that would end up relocating him to a base in San Diego and then eventually Florida okay
00:05:33
so they got married they did the whole Navy thing and being newly married Beth didn't want to separate from Steven so
00:05:40
she moved from Base to Base with him and in 77 obviously that's when they had Dorothy Marie who actually just went by
00:05:47
Marie cute speaking of names hey look at that names everywhere people go by their
00:05:52
middle names sometimes such as Marie it's true now once Steven was finished with the Navy finished up his time there
00:05:58
the family moved back to the Fort Worth area but within just a few years things between Steven and Beth became very
00:06:04
strained Beth ended up saying Steven's Behavior had always been a little erratic but I was a naive Catholic girl
00:06:11
caught up in this Whirlwind teenage romance with this swaave guy but not long after they moved back to Texas
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Steven started going through a bit of a mental health crisis he was experiencing
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kind of periodic bouts of depression but they started getting more and more frequent and lasting longer he was
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getting jealous over Beth a lot like if she was talking to other people or just like going off and doing her own thing
00:06:35
he was getting jealous of that yeah and really just he overall seemed to be struggling emotionally okay so Beth said
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there came a point when I didn't know how to act around him anymore he had temper tantrums he couldn't hold on to a
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job and then there were times where he would get so tired and feel like everything was so Bleak and dark and
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that nothing was worthwhile jeez which that's awful and you have to think this is at a time where again and we say it
00:06:59
all the time but people aren't necessarily going to therapy men especially are not taking it upon
00:07:05
themselves to sign up for therapy willy-nilly so it's not like this is an easy fix here exactly so by 1980 the
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Mental Health crisis had really taken a toll on the two of them and they actually decided to separate and
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ultimately ended up divorcing the next year Beth got remarried to a man named Frank buros he was also a Navy officer
00:07:24
and she had actually met Frank while she and Steven were stationed in Florida oh
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when they met they were just friends there was like nothing weird about it yeah um cuz obviously they were both
00:07:33
married like no Affair or anything but Frank had also been recently divorced and moved back to Texas and taken a job
00:07:40
as a police officer so they kind of like rediscovered each other yeah and he also
00:07:45
had a young son of his own and he kind of really relished in his protective fatherly authority figure identity so he
00:07:53
happily and eagerly took on the role of a father figure like a bonus Father Figure to Marie okay cuz Marie was only
00:08:00
four years old when Steven and Beth ended up getting divorced Steven meanwhile he ended up moving into a
00:08:06
one-bedroom apartment in Fort Worth and at this time because remember he's really trying to get his mental health
00:08:12
in check during this time he was only seeing Marie like twice a month once or twice a month so after the divorce and
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all the custody matters had been settled and were behind them it became clear that separating was actually really the
00:08:25
best thing that Stephen and Beth had done for their family that's good took some time but by the late ' 80s Steven
00:08:32
really prioritized his mental health he started taking medication and that made his symptoms of depression really easily
00:08:38
manageable he like really figured it out oh nice yeah so once his mental health was in check he also started dating a
00:08:45
new person her name was Sandra hudgin and she also had children they actually met at a Parents Without Partners
00:08:52
meeting oh my God didn't even know that was a thing yeah I it took I feel like it was um like a little Det chill in one
00:08:59
of my old cases and I think I was going to say cuz it sounds a little familiar but yeah I think you're right yeah I
00:09:06
think it was like another another case that I did but I think it I think it like was a bad like not the organization
00:09:11
but I think it ended up like not being great that these two people met there but didn't work out I'll let you know
00:09:16
then this time it's great like it's cool that they met yeah they realized that they had a lot of things in common so
00:09:21
things really Blossom between them from there but most importantly Steven had also uh managed to find a really steady
00:09:28
and sustainable job with the Postal Service Sandra his girlfriend said he was very proud of his job which was just
00:09:34
a rural root a rural root Postman but he liked his job and he liked being outdoors and he felt some pride in it
00:09:41
nice so he really found his stride yeah although he definitely struggled some after the divorce he had finally pulled
00:09:47
his life together by like I would say the early '90s oh good but unfortunately at Beth and Frank's house things weren't
00:09:55
really going as well as one would hope daily life had become much more of a struggle as Marie entered her teen years
00:10:02
a private psychologist that uh his name was Randall J Price and Marie ended up seeing him later he said when Marie has
00:10:09
described those days I've sensed there was some jealousy or possessiveness about her mother's relationship to Frank
00:10:15
and according to the psychologist uh price Marie seemed to perceive Beth's marriage to Frank as a way of taking her
00:10:22
mother away from her like Frank taking her mom away yeah and that jealous feeling really only deepened the older
00:10:29
she got M and I think it had a lot to do you know what I'm actually going to save it I think you'll see what it has a
00:10:35
lot to do with huh and you can form your own opinion I love that but at the same
00:10:40
time according to price Frank also likely harbored some of his own jealousy when it came to Marie and Beth's
00:10:46
relationship which had always been a really strong relationship he elaborated when I saw them they were quite
00:10:51
affectionate in an overt fashion hugging one another finishing each other's sentences they acted more like
00:10:57
contemporaries than mother and daughter they were like sisters who had grown up together okay Beth had always been
00:11:03
really really proud of Marie and would always gush to friends and family about how intelligent Marie was how well-liked
00:11:10
she was just really spoke her up of course which like yeah you want to do that it's your daughter of course but
00:11:16
whether he was conscious of it or not Frank seemed to have some kind of resentment due to how close Marie and
00:11:22
Beth were like there was some jealousy of the relationship which in my opinion is strange because she should love her
00:11:28
daughter and you should love that she loves her daughter yeah that's my opinion on that absolutely but the
00:11:34
tension between Frank and Marie came to AE in the summer of '92 when Marie came home one afternoon and actually
00:11:42
discovered Frank with another woman o so this is like she's finding her stepfather with another woman so she
00:11:48
literally just found her stepdad cheating on her mom who she's super close with so she's [ __ ] outraged and
00:11:55
immediately goes to tell Beth her mom but Marie was Sur surprised when she didn't really get the reaction she'd
00:12:01
been expecting Beth was obviously deeply hurt and upset when she found out that Frank was having some kind of affair but
00:12:08
if Marie thought that was going to be the end of her mom and Frank's relationship she was about to be very
00:12:13
disappointed wow later Beth told journalist skip hollandsworth who he writes about a lot of Texas cases and I
00:12:20
love his writing but Beth told skip hollinsworth I loved Frank and I knew that he just didn't have his head on
00:12:26
right he felt neglected because of all the time I was spending with my own job and this was his way of
00:12:31
reacting wow yeah so Beth was willing to give Frank's indiscretion there but Marie to each their own Marie had no
00:12:41
intention of doing so she was insolent she talked back she disobeyed him constantly at this point she was like
00:12:48
you don't respect my mom I don't respect you yeah and I mean she lost respect for
00:12:52
him absolutely like that's that's just the way it is yeah I mean I think I can understand that I can understand
00:12:59
understand that I feel like I would probably feel the same way yeah and again she's also a teenager so now she's
00:13:04
just like kind of going out of her way to defy course she's already in that phase anyway yeah she already didn't
00:13:10
really love you to begin with OR like you very much at least and they just gave her all the more reason exactly so
00:13:16
finally after a few months Marie just couldn't stand living with Frank any longer and she told her mom that Beth
00:13:22
said she withdrew from all of us and then one day she came to me and said I think you should divorce him and I said
00:13:27
but Marie I love frank I know him I know he'll change Marie looked at me and she
00:13:32
said I have to leave o so she it literally got to the point where Marie was like I don't know how you're with
00:13:38
this man and I'm not going to stand around and watch you get treated like this so I got to go and like I don't
00:13:43
really like him damn so not wanting to make the situation any worse Beth didn't really challenge Marie's decision to
00:13:50
move out okay and instead she just helped her make arrangements to go live with her
00:13:56
grandparents about 45 minutes away in Fort Worth and she enrolled her in a new school
00:14:01
district but it wasn't long because she's a teenager she just made a pretty rash decision yeah it wasn't long before
00:14:09
she regretted that decision and after just about 5 days of living with her grandparents M used all the money she
00:14:16
had saved to get a cab back to Beth and Frank's house in granberry yeah she's like I want to come home of course now
00:14:23
as a strict disciplinarian and the usual Target of Marie's teenage attitude Frank
00:14:28
wasn't NE necessarily excited to see his stepdaughter returning so soon after Beth had gone out of her way to
00:14:34
accommodate what he saw as Marie's demands and he had actually established this house rule a long time ago like
00:14:42
right when they first met and became a family and this rule was that it was set up with both Marie and his son and he
00:14:50
said should either one of them leave the house move out of the house to go live with another parent they were not going
00:14:55
to be allowed to move back with him and Beth like once you made that decision it
00:14:59
was a done deal okay yeah later in his court testimony he explained the rule was an important tool for two divorced
00:15:07
parents trying to meld two families he said he didn't want the kids to think they could go back and forth between
00:15:12
parents whenever they wanted to get their way okay which I totally understand yeah I mean I don't know what
00:15:18
it's like to have to navigate that kind household in like two families so I'll I'll withhold any any kind of judgment
00:15:26
on that cuz I don't yeah seems like when he what he's saying is logical it seems
00:15:32
definitely you know I feel like if it were me because I like I dealt with divorced parents yeah if it were me I
00:15:40
feel like it should be situational that's kind of that was kind of my thought but again I I've never
00:15:48
experienced my parents aren't divorced I am not divorced so it's like I I'm speaking from a place of total
00:15:54
inexperience so I will rely on you for this one I I don't know what it's like to be the parent of a divorced child I
00:16:01
just know what it's like to be the child and I feel like I mean I wouldn't say that my parents did a great job at it no
00:16:07
offense if you're listening but I think they know I think they probably know shouldn't come as a surprise I I don't
00:16:14
know I think that if if I ever found myself as a parent in this situation one it would be situational and two I could
00:16:20
see it working better as like a one strike and you're out like you get one chance to do this and if you don't like
00:16:27
it you don't get to make that decision again I could see that you know what I mean yeah that makes sense to me like
00:16:32
you get to come back this one time but if this ever happens again you don't get to come back and do this again you I can
00:16:37
definitely see that being a smart way to go about it yeah yeah so feels less uh harsh it does feel less harsh in my
00:16:44
opinion because everybody's again I'm just going off of what I'm looking at it's like feels like
00:16:49
everybody's trying to navigate a situation that nobody really should know how to navigate divorce is I imagine not
00:16:56
easy messy on anyone so it's like everybody's just trying to navigate including the kids and the kids are
00:17:01
trying to navigate it while also being kids and having a million different hormones and other emotions and all this
00:17:08
going on so they're not going to be able to make like rash decision you know or excuse me rational decisions yes you
00:17:15
know so it's like there needs to be a little bit of bending I feel and also might I point out Frank you got another
00:17:21
chance well thank you that was going to be my next thing was like pretty rich coming from Frank right
00:17:30
like Beth gets to give you another chance but then you got you get to decide together that she doesn't give
00:17:35
her daughter another chance kid don't get two chances but you get two chances I don't know about that after what could
00:17:41
be uh construed as a much bigger judgment here but I will say just to give you all of the facts Frank
00:17:50
wasn't just taking out some maybe like feelings of yuck on Marie actually his own son had moved out to live with his
00:17:57
mom a few years earlier and Frank did the same thing he wouldn't let him move back so he was like I'm not consistent
00:18:04
he was consistent and he oh he's consistent oh good and he said I'm not going to have Marie be treated
00:18:09
differently like when I did this to my own son you know okay whether it's whether it's good or not exactly
00:18:15
consistent totally opinion based but Beth this whole thing was a nightmare she remembered the day that Marie tried
00:18:22
to come home and said it was this terrible scene all of us outside screaming and crying at one another
00:18:28
Marie was crying for me to take her back and Frank was shouting at me you know the rule you can't break it the same
00:18:34
thing that applied to my son should apply to her so this was just a [ __ ] mess yeah and a therapist should have
00:18:40
been involved that sound and again I don't know it just sounds it's like screaming at you know at the
00:18:49
mother like this is what you're going to do with your kid yeah because I did it with mine it's like o I feel like you
00:18:57
guys like and obvious ly like I don't know I don't know it's rubbing me the wrong way but I'm not going to no I
00:19:05
agree you know the other thing knows but doesn't feel good you're allowing children to make life
00:19:13
decisions and like helping them make those life decisions by like saying like Okay if you want to move out I'll help
00:19:18
you figure it out but then you're not allowing them to be the child one and making those decisions or deciding they
00:19:24
regret those decisions that's okay that's part of the thing that gets me and for like the portion of people who
00:19:31
like can't stand when I talk about parenting trigger warning but I but CU like I don't know everything what the
00:19:39
[ __ ] I'm just doing the best I can nobody does but it bothers me when parents don't realize that their kids
00:19:46
are human beings as well yeah and when they don't look at your kid and go well well me as an adult sometimes I get to
00:19:53
say well [ __ ] that was a stupid decision I I'm going to go do this now yeah like
00:19:57
let me fix it but I'm not going to allow you to ever have that luxury that's not
00:20:02
fair why is that fair like to me personally you do you do whatever you want to do totally again but to me
00:20:10
personally I don't get that like I'm like it's the same thing of like you know small little things like you know
00:20:19
you're hungry close to bedtime I get hungry close to bedtime so like again do what you want with your own kids but I
00:20:26
never if the kids are hungry close like last night for ex this is funny that this came up last night for example all
00:20:32
three of them literally we got through bath time brushed teeth and then all three of them were like I'm kind of
00:20:38
hungry yeah and I was like do you want like toast with butter or something like do you want toast like what do you want
00:20:43
like we just made something small but I was like you're hungry that's what you would do for yourself sometimes I'm
00:20:48
hungry before bed you know what I mean it's like I just to me I'm not I'm I'm of the mind of like why T you're you're
00:20:56
not allowing your kids to change their mind yeah to change your mind obviously you want to teach them to make wise
00:21:03
decisions and to think through decisions to think of all the consequences of those decisions hopefully 90% of the
00:21:11
time those are good solid decisions that they are going to stay with because in life sometimes you don't get to change
00:21:16
your mind true and I think that is what like maybe he was trying to set I'm sure
00:21:21
that's maybe the mindset he was coming from is like that it was so all or nothing that's the thing and it's like
00:21:26
life isn't all or nothing so it's like there does need to be a little gray area but again parenting is hard and it's
00:21:33
hard to figure out different and it's such a different time and it's like so this is all very like it's easy to look
00:21:40
back and be like that's wild and like and it is it but like it's it's it's hard and I think especially not
00:21:47
everybody's going to get it I think especially in like the 70s and 80s it was probably even harder for divorced
00:21:53
parents because there weren't a lot of divorced people like there wasn't really a blueprint you know what I mean no it's
00:22:00
so true it's not like it is now where there's support groups so many divorced people you know like divorce is very
00:22:07
it's more common more marriage that more marriage more common than staying married so it's like you have a lot of
00:22:14
things to look at as like you said a blueprint right where they didn't necessarily have that but I never get
00:22:20
the like all or nothing I don't either at least in my house that's not yeah not how I understand the thing to be things
00:22:27
things can fluctuate yeah that's the thing you again you want to make them stand on their own te feet and like make
00:22:32
decisions but at least have a little wig over them and this just created like a really tension filled awful relationship
00:22:39
between everyone yeah it kind of feels like it's just a lot of yuck negative energy that doesn't
00:22:47
need to be spent this this hard you know what I mean like you you could maybe figure out a way to make stuff work and
00:22:53
honestly talking about blueprints this was the blueprint for like a [ __ ] disaster I'll tell you like ultimately
00:22:59
this results in disaster well it sounds like it's it's kind of eing up to that yeah so Beth obviously felt terrible for
00:23:07
her daughter Marie but ultimately she did stand by Frank's decision and she called Steven her ex-husband and was
00:23:13
like can Marie come and live with you and he was like oh my God totally like I I have this great job I've gotten my
00:23:20
mental health in check I love Mary I would love to see her more totally to Beth it seemed like the best decision at
00:23:27
the time because one it would allow some space for everyone to cool down and two
00:23:32
she also hoped that Frank would eventually change his mind and let Marie come move back in with them but Marie
00:23:38
would maybe she wasn't having like the best time at her grandparents house so she was like maybe she'll have a better
00:23:44
time at Stevens in the meantime and we can all figure this out yeah and we can get to something that makes sense for
00:23:49
everybody I do feel for Beth at this point in time because I think she was just between a rock and a hard place
00:23:55
well that's tough when you're married to someone who is making decisions for the
00:23:59
entire family yes and like that's that's tough and like I said he was he he really reveled in his author his
00:24:06
position as an authority figure yeah and see and it's like that's not marriage man like marriage is making decisions
00:24:12
together both you need to be comfortable with those decisions and if one of you isn't then you need to figure out a
00:24:16
different way exactly like that's how it needs to be it can't be I'm uncomfortable with this decision but
00:24:21
he's dead set on it so I just have to go along with it it's like no and again different times so like this is just yep
00:24:29
it's it's us looking at it in hindsight with our 2020 glasses on that's true but
00:24:34
to Marie this felt like the ultimate betrayal yeah one she she wasn't allowed to move back into her home like she was
00:24:41
like what the [ __ ] and Frank had already betrayed her mom and now her mom in her
00:24:47
eyes and realistically was siding with Frank well that I think that is the big thing here is also you put like like
00:24:56
you said put together that she walked in on him cheating on her mom disrespecting
00:25:01
her mom so it's like so then for this guy to be making proclamations about your family right after he has betrayed
00:25:10
your family yep that's rough that is rough like that's a that's a I imagine as a kid that would be a rough pill to
00:25:16
swallow and imagine you're looking at this Through The Eyes of like I think she was like 15 or 16 at this point oh
00:25:20
my God I was a nightmare yeah and I was a nightmare like I was a nightmare of just emotions and just like being a [ __ ]
00:25:27
and like hormonal as [ __ ] you know so it's like I can't fathom that right so Randall price
00:25:33
the psychologist said that Marie thought that Frank was relieve to have her gone
00:25:37
which I do wonder if part of him was yeah and he said Marie's constant presence and her friendship with her
00:25:42
mother were hindering him from putting his marriage back together with Beth that's how Marie felt okay so there's
00:25:48
that but even though the circumstances for Marie's move were not the best Steven robarts was super happy just to
00:25:55
have more time with his daughter and immediately started looking for a better living situation he was looking for a
00:26:00
two-bedroom apartment so that she could have her own space and like they could coexist together now after all the
00:26:08
positive changes he'd been making to improve his life his sister Stephanie Elder told skip hollinsworth Maurice
00:26:13
coming back to him was like the icing on the cake oh that like really I I hate that there's going to be a bad thing
00:26:20
happening here because I'm like this sounds nice yeah it sounds awesome Marie on the other hand was obviously far less
00:26:27
enthusiastic about this move she hated her new school in the meantime of Steven looking for a new apartment she had to
00:26:33
sleep on a rollway bed in the dining room and she was constantly frustrated with just her father's lack of domestic
00:26:39
skills he's a he's a man he's a single man who's been living on his own he wasn't great at cooking he wasn't great
00:26:46
at cleaning and that's not what she's used to no she's grown up with you know with a mama yeah but most of all she
00:26:53
missed her mama she missed being with her mom and now being so far away from her so stepen did his best to make the
00:26:59
transition e easy for Marie but his attempts typically fell flat or were somewhat unwelcome remember this is a
00:27:06
teenage girl well a very angry teenage didn't this transition didn't happen because everybody decided it was
00:27:13
going to happen together it came out of it came out of anger and her feeling like she wasn't welcome in her own home
00:27:19
so she's going to be angry no matter what he did I don't think that guy had a chance at at making this okay he sure
00:27:26
didn't uh Steve's girl friend Sandra told hollandsworth he was very anxious about pleasing her but I know that those
00:27:32
first few weeks Marie was constantly on the phone calling her mother she was pleading to get back home which is
00:27:38
really sad that is really sad it breaks your heart so the first few months after
00:27:42
the move obviously were difficult for both Marie and Steven but eventually Marie did appear to adjust to the new
00:27:49
living situation okay when she got settled in her new school her grades went right back up she was once again a
00:27:54
straight A student she started making friends she started becoming more sociable her chem teacher Tracy Arnold
00:28:01
said I do remember hearing her say she wanted to move back in with her mother but she was always a nice bubbly girl
00:28:07
okay a few months later Marie actually even started to warm up to Steven's new girlfriend Sandra and the quote unquote
00:28:13
tantrums and desperate pleas to return back to Beth and Frank's home became more infrequent as 1992 came to a close
00:28:20
okay it was only later that the adults around Marie would learn that what they thought was an adjustment was really
00:28:27
just an an act she was she was putting on an act like everything was okay but inside she was still absolutely
00:28:34
depressed and absolutely desperate to get back to her mom oh no so in reality her desire to return back to her mother
00:28:41
was just as strong as it had ever been like I just said and now desperate to get out of situ the situation that she
00:28:47
put herself in by challenging Frank's Authority she started brainstorming ways that she could get out of her living
00:28:53
Arrangement and at one point she actually even considered Burning Down the apartment comp complex while her dad
00:28:59
was out and she figured that if the apartment no longer existed her mom would have no choice but to let her move
00:29:05
back in oh wow so she got this is desperation she got Beyond desperate she I think she had somewhat of a break yeah
00:29:14
I mean if you're thinking that far like that's on another level the psychologist
00:29:19
she later saw said it's one of those Mysteries a teenager's desperation for whatever reason Marie did feel
00:29:25
permanently trapped and being a teenager she had little regard for the consequences uh but of course our sin
00:29:32
would cause a great deal of disc destruction and uh would most likely be easily traced back to her so what she
00:29:40
started to feel she needed was a plan that would be disruptive enough to reunite her with her mother but seemed
00:29:46
to everybody else like an unfortunate fluke and in February of 1993 she got an idea that seemed like the perfect plan I
00:29:54
don't think it's going to be it's not on the evening of February 18th Steven robard sat down at the dinner table with
00:30:00
his daughter for a quick little TexMex dinner before he had plans to head out to an evening church service at the
00:30:06
nearby Christ Church okay he returned less than an hour later though after he had finished dinner and gone out to the
00:30:12
church he came back and he said he was having severe severe stomach pains oh no not long after returning home he started
00:30:20
vomiting and in the hours that followed the cramps got increasingly more painful
00:30:25
so unsure what to do Marie ran to Sandra h apartment uh that's his girlfriend who
00:30:30
actually lives in the same apartment complex she told Marie just stay put here in my apartment and she went over
00:30:37
to find Steve in a terrible State Sandra said he said he couldn't swallow well and I saw saliva coming up through his
00:30:43
mouth I went into the other room and called an ambulance as she was on the phone with a paramedic she could hear
00:30:49
Steven struggling in the other room and when she looked in on him she saw that now he was foaming at the mouth and his
00:30:55
eyes had become fixed and glassy and he was staring off at nothing oh my God it was a incredibly Bleak violent situation
00:31:05
like he was violently ill holy [ __ ] by the time the paramedics arrived Steven had slipped into a coma and wasn't
00:31:12
breathing they tried to get an oxy oxygen tube down his throat to keep him alive but his throat had completely
00:31:18
closed at that point oh my gosh in the meantime Marie who was supposed to be waiting at Sandra's apartment had
00:31:25
wandered over and was watching as the parent paramedics tried in vain to save her father's life Sandra later said she
00:31:32
didn't tell the paramedics anything she only stood there what in an interview with the Associated Press a few years
00:31:39
later Marie recalled the incident and she said I was in shock my whole body just heated
00:31:44
up my God so the paramedics they rushed Steph to the hospital with Sandra and Marie following behind them in Sandra's
00:31:51
car but despite the doctor's best efforts Steven was in horrible shape by the time he got to the eer department
00:31:58
and he did die a short time later oh that's awful yeah like just when he had gotten his his life really together and
00:32:05
was thinking that he was getting you know his daughter on like the right like feeling good feeling comfortable yeah
00:32:11
being a bigger part of her life and oh that's so sad it is it really is oh that like breaks my heart I know Sandra
00:32:20
recall in an interview with CBS I didn't want to believe it how could it be that
00:32:23
bad he was 38 there he's my age 38 years old holy [ __ ] isn't that crazy wow that's so young that's really thank you
00:32:35
you're welcome that is very young like and to die that violently and to honestly have gone through everything
00:32:42
that that he went got through to get to where he was getting you know 38 years old he's had a whole career with the
00:32:48
Navy he's got he's had a child he's gotten divorced he's gotten his gone through depression battled depression
00:32:54
got it in check got his life back on track like was like moving forward got a new girlfriend welcoming his child into
00:33:01
the home to like really like get her back on track like it just feels like everything was falling into place and
00:33:08
damn and then it what a horrible end it all just exploded essentially but the medical examiner Dr
00:33:15
Mark Krauss declared Steven's death a heart attack very unusual for somebody so young but not unheard of the doctor
00:33:23
recalled his heart was mildly enlarged it was probably 25% too large for a man his age and size somewhat uncomfortably
00:33:30
I signed it out as a natural death and he acknowledged the somewhat unusual circumstances
00:33:36
but something was pulling at him like he was like he signed off on it as an as a
00:33:42
natural death but something in the back of his mind was like I'm not so sure yeah but it feels a little suspish yeah
00:33:51
but we'll leave that there for now okay funeral services were held for Steven robarts on February 22nd and during
00:33:57
Marie stood by her father's gravide in an absolute Daz once the service ended Beth took her aside to tell her some
00:34:05
news she said she really hoped that her and Frank could work things out but they
00:34:10
were still having issues and they decided to separate and Beth said I found a good job in Florida I know it's
00:34:16
not ideal timing but I'm going to take you and move to Florida she said when she shared that news with Marie Marie
00:34:23
stared at me like you had this plan all along to take me to Florida she looked looked like she couldn't
00:34:29
breathe that's rough mhm that's rough especially if you catch what's going on here wow yeah yeah so a month later Beth
00:34:39
and Marie had settled into a new apartment in Panama City where Beth started a new job as an administrative
00:34:44
assistant at the State Division of Motor Vehicles Marie meanwhile was enrolled at
00:34:48
a new high school but she was going through her own mental crisis some days she was so depressed and despondent that
00:34:56
she couldn't get out of bed much less go to school damn so now worried that Marie
00:35:00
had inherited some kind of depression from what her father went through Beth immediately set her up with a therapist
00:35:08
but even counseling did little to help Marie's mood and to make matters worse a few months after they arrived in Florida
00:35:15
Frank showed up at Beth's store promising to work harder to repair their marriage and not ready to give up on
00:35:21
their marriage Beth agreed to take him back w wow now despite her wor there's some decisions happening there are some
00:35:32
decisions as Tatiana says choices choices so despite her worsening depression the loss of her father and
00:35:39
the disruption of the move Marie actually seemed happy for her mom and she was even willing to make amends with
00:35:44
Frank for the sake of the family huh but unfortunately it wasn't long before Marie found a note from Frank's mistress
00:35:51
among his [ __ ] belongings which proved that he was still carrying on a godamn affair that had caused her to
00:35:56
move out in the first place what the [ __ ] so he show he goes all the way to Florida and he's like I
00:36:03
want to work on this and actually never ended things with a mistress or at the very least got a new one while he was
00:36:08
there I will never understand these people the way I want to junk punch this man who go out of their way to try to
00:36:16
get back someone while they're cheating on them still it's like no just be go off be who you want to be sing why are
00:36:24
you constantly trying to drag this other person into your [ __ ] why are you [ __ ] up other people's lives it's so
00:36:29
wild to me I don't get it Marie didn't get it either no and at that point she was like listen I've actually really
00:36:36
never felt at home in Florida because we moved here so suddenly I also really missed my friends back in Texas and she
00:36:43
pretty much went and told her mom that she said Mom you can put up with him if you want to but I don't have to I miss
00:36:49
Texas I'm going home so once again Beth chose to stay with Frank and helped Marie make arrangements to return to
00:36:56
Texas where she moved in with Steven's Father Jim Robards to Mansfield a small City near Fort Worth so once
00:37:05
again in Marie's eyes and the eyes of I'm sure many others Beth has chosen her husband over her daughter yes that's
00:37:13
just that's the unfortunate truth here that's what's happening damn so back in Texas Marie enrolled in Mansfield High I
00:37:21
was going to say high school high school high school uh to finish her senior year
00:37:26
where by all accounts she flourished socially and academically she joined the yearbook staff she actually like her mom
00:37:33
ended up becoming president of the school's National Honor Society jeez and also quickly became the star of the
00:37:38
volleyball team look at her go yeah she started doing a bunch of stuff the school's yearbook adviser uh leonitis
00:37:45
Patterson said she impressed all the teachers because here she was a brand new student and she had this hunger to
00:37:50
get involved but when it came to her father Marie became unusually Cy if not outright bizarre when whenever he got
00:37:58
brought up she told her grandfather and the rest of the robarts family that she couldn't visit Steven's grave because
00:38:03
she quote unquote couldn't handle it emotionally which you can understand absolutely but when anybody at school
00:38:10
would ask about her family she would make up a lie about her background specifically like where her dad was like
00:38:16
sometimes she would say he died other times she would say like he lived somewhere else she would it was always a
00:38:21
different story yeah when it came to friends Marie was generally friendly but she didn't really go out of her way to
00:38:28
make new friends but there was one girl who Marie actually formed a really close
00:38:32
relationship with with and that relationship in her life would become very consequential okay like Marie Stacy
00:38:40
High had also lost her father under different circumstances he was still alive he was just incredibly absent from
00:38:45
her life oh that's sad so they kind of bonded over the fact that they didn't really have a father figure Stacy said I
00:38:51
had come from an abused background I'd been to plenty of psychologists I could tell that Marie had gone through
00:38:56
something too I thought I could help her come out of her shell teach her to have
00:38:59
a little more fun in life yeah so senior year they meet each other they come from
00:39:04
different backgrounds they they get close they bond sounds like a nice reason to get close to someone you're
00:39:09
like I've been through it TR to help you get through it without going down a bad
00:39:13
path exactly so not long after arriving in Mansfield the two girls became really
00:39:18
Inseparable Stacy said I would say we were best friends we kind of fell in love with each other we had so much in
00:39:23
common and she just means in like a friendship yeah uh they would they would spend afternoons working together on
00:39:28
yearbook they would drive around town remember when you were a teenager and you just drive around I miss that I miss
00:39:34
that so much sometimes you would like go to Wendy's yeah that's really the only part I miss drive around listening to
00:39:38
music yeah on the weekends they would use their fake IDs to get into local country western bars they're just doing
00:39:44
like typical teenager [ __ ] and throughout that time Stacy could sense that something was weighing on Marie
00:39:50
like weighing very heavily on her and she would try to get her to open up but every time it just went nowhere the
00:39:57
attempts were completely unsuccessful but Stacy said I pride myself on asking really good questions and I tried to get
00:40:03
Marie to talk about her past and her dad's death thinking it might help her but it was like a den end street trying
00:40:08
to get her to talk wow so she's like completely closed up yeah but toward the end of the school year a secret Marie
00:40:16
was keeping was starting to weigh on her in ways she had likely not anticipated but it wasn't Stacy's persistent
00:40:23
questioning that moved Marie to share her secret it was actually a passage from one William Shakespeare that
00:40:29
finally brought the truth to light one day while they were rehearsing Hamlet together for school Stacy was reading
00:40:36
out of her copy of cliff notes and she turned to Marie and she started a dramatic reading of claudius's soliloquy
00:40:42
from act 3 scene three my fault is my past but oh what form of prayer can serve my turn forgive me my foul murder
00:40:50
that cannot be since I am still possessed of those effects for which I did the murder oh so turning to her
00:40:57
friend Stacy expected a positive a positive reaction from Marie she was like I just slayed that passage yeah but
00:41:03
in turn Marie seemed very lost and dazed the scene where Claudius expresses his very deep remorse over his blind
00:41:11
ambition and impulsive decision to murder the king seemed to affect Marie very deeply kind of hit her kind of hit
00:41:18
her in a place she hadn't been hit in a while whether she was inspired by the text as she would later claim or she
00:41:25
just simply couldn't carry the burden of her secret anymore she turned to Stacy and asked her Stacy do you think people
00:41:33
can go through life without a conscience and as if to confirm Stacy pointed out that there were a lot of
00:41:39
people in the world who were capable of killing somebody without remorse and Marie backed up to the wall and then
00:41:45
collapsed to the floor and started sobbing uncontrollably oh my goodness so Stacy's
00:41:50
like what's wrong like I I don't understand what's going on here and all Marie could stay and say in response was
00:41:59
guess so without hesitation Stacy just ran through a list of teenage fear she was like are you pregnant did you wreck
00:42:06
the family car like coming up with every teenage crazy thing you could possibly do and when she had run out of all the
00:42:12
hypothetical tragedy she could possibly think of she said jokingly well you didn't kill somebody did you and in
00:42:19
between her sobs Marie answered my father I poisoned him holy [ __ ] yeah yeah I mean I like sensed this a little
00:42:31
bit but hearing her it's like and the fact it's just so haunting to me that that scene in Hamlet was like what
00:42:38
finally broke her my whole body is just chilled same and it just makes you think
00:42:44
like oh my God you're a [ __ ] teenager yeah like I remember senior year having to go up in front of the class and
00:42:51
reading Hamlet yeah can you imagine your it hitting home like that like I didn't
00:42:58
relate to hamlon anyway back then I still don't actually and the whole thing with like her mom being like I'm going
00:43:03
to take you to Florida this is the plan and she's like you had this plan like it
00:43:07
had been the plan she just hadn't had a chance to she was finishing it up like finishing the plan up but if she had
00:43:13
told Marie a little bit sooner this wouldn't have happened and it's like what and that's not on be
00:43:20
obviously I'm not saying that what a [ __ ] mess what a mess what an absolute mess oh that's
00:43:28
awful holy [ __ ] and it only gets worse and she did it in such a horrific way yeah and also and I know I'm I'm hoping
00:43:38
we're going to find out why did you choose him you I mean you shouldn't poison anyone but why did you poison that man
00:43:47
we find out but but it still does sense don't really like it's so you want to say it's like such a
00:43:56
teenage decision but then it's not at the same time no it's a very but the the the rale behind it the rationale behind
00:44:04
it is such teenage rationale but you're like you killed your father because was she and again I'm sure I'm skipping
00:44:11
ahead but it's like all I can think of is that she was thinking like well if I don't have a place to stay with him then
00:44:17
I have to go back to that's pretty much what it was and it's like oh my God but the that is not the way no and we'll get
00:44:24
to it there is there is debate over whether or not she intended to kill him but we'll we'll get to it
00:44:33
I we'll get to it okay so she just admits this horrible secret to Stacy while they're literally just getting
00:44:41
together practicing Hamlet and Stacy is completely taken ab and Marie made her swear that she wouldn't tell a soul and
00:44:49
reminded her that if she told anybody Marie herself would get arrested and sent to jail for the rest of her life so
00:44:55
she's like you can't tell anybody like I can't go to jail for the rest of my life
00:44:58
and because they're seniors in high school Stacy was like okay I'll keep quiet had they been adults in the same
00:45:04
situation I'm sure Stacy probably would have gone to the police with this information more or less immediately but
00:45:10
they're children teenagers damn and they you know teenagers live by their own set
00:45:15
of rules that's different from adults so Stacy would later tell skip skip hollandsworth when you're in high school
00:45:22
it's like so important not to betray your friends yeah so while it pained her to do so she kept Marie secret like she
00:45:29
promised sort of sort of we'll get there okay keeping Marie's terrible secret had
00:45:35
never been easy but the more and more time passed the more completely unbearable life became for Stacy she
00:45:42
started having these Vivid and Incredibly distressing distressing nightmares where she would hear Steven
00:45:47
calling out to her from the grave or she would have nightmares where Marie was chasing her through the night damn the
00:45:54
stress had her doing poorly in school she started that's intense it's intense you're faom that that's the wild I I
00:46:02
never had to go through that I can't imagine no being 17 16 17 years old and having a whole like your friend breaks
00:46:10
down and tells you they poison their father like what the [ __ ] do you do like I my brain would not be able to handle
00:46:18
that at 16 no but and the so she's she's doing horrible in like every part of her
00:46:23
life and now she's she's drinking heavily I don't remember if I said that part but she's drinking heavily to cook
00:46:29
she also at the same time was trying to put some distance between herself and Marie so she quit the yearbook she
00:46:35
started spending time with new friends but everything was getting to be too much and now thinking that she was
00:46:40
pretty much headed toward a nervous breakdown she took it upon herself to start going to an after school program
00:46:46
at a private mental health clinic but even there she couldn't bring herself to tell them the truth so it really didn't
00:46:52
do much good damn but finally after eight months Stacy couldn't stand the strain any longer and she went to the
00:47:00
school counselor for help wow good I mean I'm glad she did something but I'm I feel bad that she had to go through
00:47:06
all that you're about to feel even worse yeah incredibly the guidance counselor actually wasn't the first person that
00:47:12
Stacy told about this oh the night that Marie had told her Stacy went home and told her mom Libby what Marie had
00:47:21
confessed at first Libby was like no Marie's probably making things up until like you know she's feeling all this
00:47:28
grief over her father's death there's no way that she could have killed him but then she started thinking more and more
00:47:33
about it and was like well could she have so she called a poison control center to ask whether barium acetate
00:47:39
which is the chemical Marie claimed to have poisoned her father with could have caused the symptoms like those that
00:47:45
killed Steven and the operator confirmed yep there were several that could have oh boy so while she knew that now it was
00:47:52
definitely possible that Marie was telling the truth Libby did nothing to help her daughter who was clearly
00:47:58
suffering as a result of keeping Marie secret later in an interview she explained that she wanted Stacy to be
00:48:05
ready for the real world and said I wanted Stacy to know that I trusted her to make her own decision about Marie I
00:48:10
guess I knew this was the moment in which Stacy was going to have to grow up she's 17 18 at the oldest what's
00:48:17
happening with these [ __ ] all over the like what's like we you're not preparing your kid you're traumatizing
00:48:23
your kid like it's like let's be her brain is not ful this isn't your if if her friend came to her and said I
00:48:30
cheated on my boyfriend at 16 years old you guys fig and she's like I'm really struggling with the secret Mom I don't
00:48:36
know what to do that's when you go honey you got to figure that out I give you I'm going give you some advice I'm going
00:48:42
to I'm going to listen to you we can talk this through but you're going to ultimately have to make that decision of
00:48:47
what to do here when her friend comes to her and says I murdered my father in Cold Blood the only correct decision is
00:48:55
we're calling the police and it's like to be like hm I don't know I feel like she couldn't have done that
00:49:01
let me call po that's not on you man that's not up to you to call pois in control and find out if that would
00:49:06
actually kill a man you call the police and you say I don't know if this is true
00:49:10
or not here's the information we got you go do your investigation because that's
00:49:14
what they're [ __ ] paid for and also what are you doing calling trying to find out if things actually can kill
00:49:20
people no call the police exactly and also what's going on here what real world are you preparing your daughter
00:49:26
for the world come across this never in my life has someone confessed murder to me
00:49:32
that is not the real world like sure it's possible but I'm sure hoping that your daughter isn't walking out into a
00:49:38
real world where people are openly confessing murder to her on that regular of a basis that she's going to have to
00:49:43
have a like set way of dealing with it right and also I'm going to be honest I'm 38 years old if someone confess
00:49:50
murder to me I would lose my mind call the police and then I'd probably call my mom yeah 100% i' call your
00:49:57
like let's come on like what I'm just like I can't get I mean whoa yeah whoa so uh while Stacy's mom didn't
00:50:09
necessarily help the situation in any way shape or form have going on at that time Stacy's mom did not have it going
00:50:15
on at this point in time that's the that's that's the main takeaway the only levity you can find out of that whole
00:50:20
situation damn yeah I have a feeling Stacy def like she said that she had like gone through a lot of this point I
00:50:27
have the feeling she probably didn't have the best home life and I feel really hard for her I feel for that's
00:50:31
the thing I feel for Stacy here like that's too much you're a child too much to have on you so luckily like I said
00:50:37
she went to the school counselor after she went to her mom eight months later cuz that's the other thing she's like
00:50:42
okay so am I supposed to keep this secret like I have no [ __ ] idea what to do because I had zero guidance you
00:50:46
need guidance that's what your parents are for well apparently that's what the school counselor was for the guidance
00:50:52
counselor the guidance counselor took her seriously and together they contacted the police which should have
00:50:58
happened in far we won't on it but it should have [ __ ] happened finally an adult made a smart decision here yes so
00:51:05
the police were actually skeptical but they did take the report and said they would investigate everyone stop if
00:51:12
someone saying they killed someone they probably killed skepticism shouldn't be your first thought it's like
00:51:18
investigated like I understand being skeptical but investigate it but they and they do they do they're they're
00:51:23
skeptical but they investigate but while they had the Blood and Tissue samples that could have been tested for the
00:51:30
barium acetate they didn't have the gas chromatography Mass spectrom meter gcms necessary to do the test but you don't
00:51:38
just have one of those what the [ __ ] I also really wanted to say it more like gosh chromatography MH spectator I you
00:51:44
just have one of those lying around you have that but fortunately the medical examiner who was just days away from
00:51:52
destroying the Blood and Tissue samples per protocol cuz it's been like over a year at this point he remembered the
00:51:58
case being somewhat suspicious and agreed to find a lab in in Texas that had the equipment and expertise to test
00:52:05
these samples that literally were days away from being thrown the me coming through like these were going to be
00:52:12
destroyed in a matter of days damn tell me that's not some kind of [ __ ] divine intervention that's something
00:52:18
that's something I think that's like Steven from wherever he was being like please figure this out please but it
00:52:24
took the medical examiner actually almost 3 months to find a lab that had the gcms technology and another 3 months
00:52:31
for the test results to come back so in the meantime Marie and Stacy had both graduated from high school they'd gone
00:52:37
their separate ways Marie used the $60,000 she got from Steven's life insurance policy to enroll at the
00:52:43
University of Texas in hopes of becoming a medical pathologist someone who would
00:52:49
literally study bodily tissue wow it's also said that she may have wanted to become a medical examiner wow yes but
00:52:56
Stacy went to Sam Houston State University about 3 hours away so they didn't talk really ever again okay but
00:53:04
after months of no contact with either Marie or the police Stacy assumed nothing had come of the report so she
00:53:09
just refocused on her schoolwork and tried to put that entire part of her life behind her but then one day in
00:53:15
October she got a call from a detective in Mansfield the test results of Steven robarts blood had finally come back and
00:53:22
showed that he had 250 times the amount of barium acetate typically found in a person's blood which was 28 times the
00:53:32
amount necessary to kill holy [ __ ] based on those results detectives were uh opening an investigation into his death
00:53:40
as a possible homicide you don't say and they wanted another statement from Stacy
00:53:45
oh man so they got one and on October 18th 1994 detectives arrested Marie on the UT Austin campus on suspicion of
00:53:54
murder uh Taran County prosecutor Mitchell PO said she was pretty forthcoming with information fairly
00:54:01
quickly she didn't try to hide she was either guilt-ridden or had thought a lot about what she had done and come forward
00:54:07
with the information wow she told detectives and this is this blows my mind she told detectives that she had
00:54:14
actually stolen the barium acetate from her High School chem class what after the teacher had warned the students how
00:54:22
dangerous and toxic the chemical could be she said I took the chemical because I knew it would make him sick I just
00:54:28
wanted to be with my mom so bad that I would do anything to be with her I'm also like wow why wasn't the
00:54:34
Barry acetate under better controls why was it possible that she could just take
00:54:40
that much barate what adults do better so on the night of her father's death Marie offered to prepare his plate
00:54:48
for dinner and she mixed the barium acetate in his food which he ate then went to church where he started
00:54:54
experiencing those terrible stomach cramps she later told the jury I knew I had done something very very wrong but I
00:55:01
did not think of myself as a criminal wow she claimed sick sick she claimed she only wanted to make her
00:55:10
father too sick to care for her which she believed would have allowed her to move back in with her mom and that at no
00:55:17
time had she intended to actually kill him she said I think for a long time I did a good job of pretending it didn't
00:55:23
happen for a long time I tried just not to I tried not to think about it this is so [ __ ] up it is in so many
00:55:32
ways like I don't even know how to I this is just wild it is because all of the things that we've previously said
00:55:39
are true like she was in this terrible situation she felt rejected by her mom all of these she's going through all of
00:55:47
these awful teenage things but then at the very same time she makes a decision to murder someone a very adult a very
00:55:54
adult decision monstrous decision and it's premeditated it is like completely premeditated and she admits that she
00:56:01
wanted to make this poor man violently ill too ill to care for her that's sick and it's also that's also the
00:56:12
amount of desperation there for her mother that she and and it's like that's sad it isad there's so much here there's
00:56:21
so many layers of like that's monstrous what she did and it's monstrous what even intention was if her intention was
00:56:27
to make him sick that's monstrous yep but that's also so sad it is that this is a child desperate for their for a
00:56:36
different situation parent for their mother so while Marie had framed the murder as the impulsive Act of a
00:56:41
desperate teenager the district attorney disagreed there's a lot of debate here like I said there was going to be that's
00:56:46
the thing there's so many layers of and honestly I don't know where I sit at the
00:56:50
end of the day like I mean this is [ __ ] up regardless yeah I know I know I sit in the seat of holy the holy [ __ ]
00:56:56
this is [ __ ] up I don't I do wonder whether or not she intended to kill him or make him sick I can't really make a
00:57:04
decision either way yeah I don't know so far I'm where you are right I can't decide that either but the district
00:57:10
attorney said anybody who was going to go to medical school is probably above average as far as the science department
00:57:16
and as a matter of a fact that was part of my investigation I collected her grades and she had very high marks in
00:57:21
school and the Sciences yeah so you see that and that's the thing you see that side of it she's intelligent and you you
00:57:28
said yourself your teacher told you how dangerous this particular uh poison is to a human and yeah that's the thing cuz
00:57:37
it's like you know there's a potential and you also don't if you're like he said if you're planning on going to
00:57:43
medical school it's like you know that every body is different and that everybody takes differently to different
00:57:50
poisons or toxins or illnesses or diseases everyone handles it different and remember there was 28 times the
00:57:57
amount in his body you gave him too much and it's like if you were thinking you were going to make him sick you would it
00:58:03
would have been this tiny little dip that's what I would think you would start with a little no matter what this
00:58:08
is monstrous because you you claim you wanted to make him sick but you overdid it 28 times and either way that's
00:58:15
monster Behavior mhm so despite her having been forthcoming upon her arrest the district attorney told reporters
00:58:22
that Marie knew exactly what she was doing when she poisoned her father and had she not told her best friend about
00:58:27
it she would have committed the perfect murder he said in my opinion she gave him a death sentence and she fully
00:58:32
intended to do what she did so following her arrest Beth used her portion of Steven's life insurance payout to H hire
00:58:40
Bill uh magnusen I believe and Ward Casey veteran criminal defense attorneys from Fort Worth she had confessed to the
00:58:48
murder Marie had when she appeared for her arraignment the next day though she pleaded not guilty to the charge of
00:58:54
murder so she confessed but then pleaded not guilty instead her lawyers argued she was a confused teenager and had no
00:59:01
idea that the chemical would have been fatal so because she was still a minor at the time that the crime was committed
00:59:07
she was no longer a minor but she was when the crime was committed she was held in a juvenile detention center for
00:59:13
nearly 2 weeks until a judge did agree to release her un bombed wow once out of the facility she got a job at a local
00:59:20
TGI Fridays and even ended up in one of their commercials I'm sorry you roll roll back that tape excuse me what
00:59:30
she got a job in a restaurant at the tji Fridays when she's out on bond for poisoning food for poisoning somebody
00:59:38
with dinner yeah the irony is not lost on me The Reckless abandonment is not lost on
00:59:44
me I don't know Texas um I'm without wow I don't know she ended up in one of the
00:59:53
tji Fridays in Texas I think they're closing right now actually What the fu they're
00:59:59
like under new ownership or something I should hope so why do I know that much about TJ I don't know but my goodness
01:00:04
gracious yeah that's not great yeah holy [ __ ] imagine knowing that she would like
01:00:12
that she was you went to to that place during that time yeah and she was your and being like Oh that was my
01:00:19
waitress yeah oh my goodness y okay didn't see that one coming on the days when she wasn't working inside of a
01:00:27
restaurant where she had access to food uh Beth brought Marie to work with her at the Granbury City Hall quote so she
01:00:33
could keep watch on her I think she was worried that she might have done something to herself you know uh
01:00:39
whatever her intention Marie's presence was a big disruption to the office workplace and city manager Bob Brockman
01:00:46
had to limit uh Marie's presence in the office he said I just think it could be a disruptive Force noting that some city
01:00:53
employees were very disturbed by her constant presence yeah if I'm working and somebody's like
01:00:58
oh here's my daughter she might have killed her father I don't want she's just going to hang out today I'd be like
01:01:05
I'm going to work from home like it's just like I don't know about that that would be a little
01:01:10
distracting yeah I could defitely see the distraction there uh but more than a month passed before Marie was back
01:01:17
before a judge on January 26 1995 where she was certified to stand trial as an adult for the murder of her father if
01:01:25
she was found guilty she could face as many as 99 years in prison her lawyers indicated to the judge and to the press
01:01:32
that she intended to plead her innocence which uh presented a challenge seeing as
01:01:37
she had already confessed to the crime but as a result her lawyers knew that their only viable strategy was to
01:01:43
convince the jury that Marie's actions were those of an emotionally distraught teenager which they hoped would Inspire
01:01:49
some sympathy among the jury and lead to a lesser sentence mhm her defense team knew that before setting foot in a
01:01:56
courtroom they needed to win over the public though and convince the public that Marie was no criminal so in order
01:02:02
to do that they actually arranged for her to be interviewed by the Associated Press which would go out on the wire and
01:02:09
be published in newspapers all all across the country wow like what a what a [ __ ] choice I was just gonna say
01:02:16
choices Tatiana but Marie told the reporter I never thought anything through I didn't realize what I was
01:02:22
doing she explained that her father had never abused her generally treated her very well but she had always been much
01:02:28
closer to her mom and desperately wanted to move back in with her she said I feel
01:02:32
so guilty about what happened I know I hurt a lot of people that's what's even sadder is like my father did nothing he
01:02:39
did not abuse me he did not treated me he treated me very well generally I violently murdered him violently like
01:02:46
this man did nothing wrong that like really breaks like thinking of that like really that's the part that really gets
01:02:54
me and scary part of like okay rash teenage decision uh you killed the one man that was willing to take you in in
01:03:03
your time of need this is the parent that is act actually like you know putting everything aside and being like
01:03:11
I want to concate on for you and it's like that and I'm sorry like rash it's like poisoning someone is not a rash
01:03:20
teenage decision no you know like her her logic behind this saying like I was just so desperate for my mom yeah that's
01:03:26
really sad you don't [ __ ] kill someone for it no and you should know better right like why why don't you know
01:03:34
better right like you that should never be part of your choices is or I could kill him like that could that should
01:03:42
never be up for thought no there's got to be something missing something off there's something off there cuz I've
01:03:50
I've been upset I've been sad I've been desperate I've been this I've been that never
01:03:57
has murder been on the docket for a possibility and it's like the fact that it was and then she followed through
01:04:05
with it makes there's an issue absolutely I've been in a very similar situation yeah and never thought of
01:04:12
murdering anyone involved ever yeah but that's just me but perhaps anticipating the defenses
01:04:19
intentions the prosecutor's office actually gave their own interview to the Press where they emphasized their belief
01:04:25
that that Marie hadn't simply acted impulsively but had in fact planned to kill her father district attorney po
01:04:32
told reporters she was fascinated with figuring out how people die pointing to her dream of becoming a medical examiner
01:04:39
and he emphasized the same points in his opening statements when the trial did end up beginning in may of
01:04:44
1996 reminding the jury that she was a very intelligent girl who excelled in science class and all in all her other
01:04:51
classes and had been present and alert when her chemistry teacher gave a very clear warning of the dangers of this
01:04:58
specific barium acetate yeah so it's like I don't know what what's to be confused here right Marie's awareness of
01:05:06
the dangers of baram acetate became the Lynch pin to post case to support the argument he played a section of her
01:05:13
confession to investigators where she admitted to knowing the dangers of the chemical in the recording the
01:05:18
interviewing detective asks her whether or not she knew what the effect the poison would have and she said it would
01:05:24
make him sick but when the detective pressed her for a more detailed response Marie admitted the chemistry teacher
01:05:30
explicitly told them it would close up someone's throat I mean you know someone's going to die so when you know
01:05:38
that yeah when she was cross-examined by the defense Marie's chemistry teacher who now had to [ __ ] testify in all of
01:05:44
this Tracy Arnold claimed she never informed the class that baram acetate would have that
01:05:50
effect so the defense is like oh cool like she never said that but rather than help the defense this admission only
01:05:57
supported the argument that Marie had to have done her own research of the drug otherwise she never would have known
01:06:03
that effect oh [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] exactly so according to the prosecution this is
01:06:10
also really haunting the page on barium acetate poisoning in the emergency handbook that was kept in the classroom
01:06:17
had been torn out of the book wow which they believed also supported their theory that Marie had fully intended to
01:06:24
kill her father holy [ __ ] [ __ ] this is so sad it is so her lawyers rejected the
01:06:30
prosecutions theory pointing out that Marie always maintained she did not intend to kill her father she just
01:06:35
wanted to make him sick and they played their own section of the taped confession where Marie tells a detective
01:06:41
she put the barium in her father's food because it was the only thing and this is from her she said it was the only
01:06:46
thing I could think of to be able to move back to where I wanted to be they said far from the cold-blooded killer
01:06:52
the prosecution was making her out to be that she had never been properly warned
01:06:56
of the dangers of barium acetate and if she truly knew what she was doing she quote would not have put so much barium
01:07:02
in her father's food since he would be far more likely to taste the salty substance and not eat
01:07:08
it but this argument doesn't work because she did put so much on and he did eat it that doesn't work at all I
01:07:15
guess that's probably why they retired at that point yeah probably now after a relatively short trial the jury retired
01:07:22
for deliberation on May 9th and returned less than an hour later to deliver their
01:07:26
verdict the jury found her guilty I saw that coming I would have too yeah when the judge asked if she had anything to
01:07:33
say to the court Marie broke down just saying I'm sorry I'm so very sorry before bursting into tears and pushing
01:07:39
the microphone away from her when she composed herself she continued her statement explaining that she'd become
01:07:45
so scared once her father had become so seriously ill and was just too frightened to say anything but Mitchell
01:07:51
Poe the da interjected to ask whether she was scared for herself or her father he was like who were you really afraid
01:07:57
for and she said I was scared for both so he stood silent for a few seconds and then said but more scared for yourself
01:08:04
right so yikes [ __ ] but the next day during the penal penalty phase po argued for a harsh sentence for Marie despite
01:08:13
her age and her displays of remorse he said if she gets probation she can go down on the elevator and serve your next
01:08:19
meal I was like [ __ ] wow ultimately the judge sentenced her to 28 years in prison with eligibility for parole after
01:08:28
7 years so Ward Casey one of her uh defense attorneys after the sentencing told reporters of course we were
01:08:36
disappointed I just kept thinking about my own kids and she really is a real real real nice girl she was just in a
01:08:42
hell of a trap I just got chill saying that yeah so while serving her sentence which she
01:08:49
did Marie was by all accounts a model prisoner she was fully compliant with all the guards all the staff she
01:08:54
volunteered appeared to do chores in prison she helped out where she could and they said she did seem to express a
01:09:01
great deal of remorse for having killed her father and after serving seven years
01:09:05
in prison she was granted parole and has since changed her name and gone out of her way to start her life over in
01:09:11
complete obscurity and there's nothing crazy related to her like this ever happened again wow but the case
01:09:19
completely captivated the public due at least in part to the fact that it actually seemed to be a larger Trend in
01:09:25
the United States in the 1990s paraside which is the murder of a parent by their
01:09:31
child obviously is pretty exceedingly rare and rarer when the child is a girl actually in a study completed in the mid
01:09:38
1990s only about 10% of children who killed one or both of their parents was female but because the bond between
01:09:46
parents and children is so strong in Western culture obviously these killings are incredibly taboo yeah according to
01:09:53
Paul bones who studies the phenomenon it only occurs in extreme situations and often after years of physical sexual or
01:10:00
psychological abuse but she said her father had never been abusive toward that's why this one's so
01:10:06
shocking and in the case of Marie robard skip hollandsworth believes she was the
01:10:11
symbol of what modern divorce has done to our society desperate to hold on to the attention and affection of a mom who
01:10:18
pretty much always seemed preoccupied with her own life and very fragile marriage Marie resorted to extreme
01:10:24
measure measures without regard for the consequences of her actions and just only cared that she would maintain her
01:10:31
position of significance in her mother's life this is such like there was such a disconnect there
01:10:38
really was where there needed to be a connect and there was such a a crazy series of events where and I think we
01:10:46
talked about this in my most recent case that I covered the society murders where
01:10:51
had one thing not happened maybe person would have ended up being K and it really is just absolutely Bonkers how
01:11:00
like one and it's not a small decision in this case the fact that she wasn't allowed to move back but one
01:11:07
decision can complet completely alter the course of and multip people CU then it goes back into like you know her her
01:11:17
you know stepfather and her mom's marriage where it was like a marriage where he got to make the decisions
01:11:23
regardless of you know what she thought yeah and she went along with it and like
01:11:31
he betrayed that family yeah and Marie was angry super angry and like you know obviously not respecting him and to see
01:11:42
her mother putting him on such a higher pedestal than her relationship with her yeah is tough and it's like that's not
01:11:49
to say what she did was okay that is anyone's fault either like anyone's fault outside of Marie for doing that
01:11:57
because it's like you make a decision to do that M and you're old enough to know
01:12:01
that that is not a decision that you even consider but it's like so many things led up to this moment that should have
01:12:09
been handled differently and then if you think about it actually like cuz obviously like you want to say you're
01:12:15
old enough to make a decision to to know that that's right from wrong but then if
01:12:19
you look at it like psychologically her brain was not developed like don't they say like the a campus is the part of
01:12:26
your brain where like decisions are made and like you you say like yes or no 15 when this happened she was either 15 or
01:12:33
16 yeah so is is it's a weird argument that you can make and then you look at the fact that she went to prison and
01:12:42
then went about the rest of her life and then nothing like this ever happened again but the I mean like yeah you you
01:12:48
have TR you know you're not fully ready to make decisions at that time you're ready to make a decision of whether to
01:12:52
murder someone or not I think decision is a full should be a fully formed one I definitely think by that point like at
01:13:00
15 or 16 like that shouldn't be one of those gray areas where it's like but isn't it weird how like yeah that that
01:13:07
can be part of it you know yeah and like PE people can make that argument well they can make that argument for sure I
01:13:14
don't know if I fully buy into it but they can make that legal argument legally it's an argument too and then it
01:13:19
is interesting that if you look at it is there are cases where like teenagers do
01:13:24
these [ __ ] horrible things and you're like holy [ __ ] how did you do that and
01:13:28
then they go and they serve time and then nothing like that ever happens again it's so true and I think that's
01:13:34
why like it does need to be studied more for sure yeah and there was like The Cloud of desperation on this there was
01:13:41
the cloud and it's like so many influencing factors can't State enough that the decision that was made should
01:13:47
have never even been a decision that was considered never ever ever ever so there's no overstating that there's not
01:13:53
I can't say that enough that there's no way that you can justify that in any way
01:13:58
shape form nothing no especially to this man who didn't do anything that's the other thing it's not like he was abusing
01:14:05
you and like you were at a point of no return those are the times when you can be like you know what like obviously you
01:14:11
don't murder someone but it's like you can almost understand that someone's been pushed so hard to a point right and
01:14:16
it's like but this is just one of those things that I think there was so many factors outside of this man completely
01:14:24
outside of this that led to him being the one to get punished that it was as soon as I found this I was like we have
01:14:31
to tell this story because it's just one of those stories that I think should be
01:14:34
told yeah you just can't wrap your brain around it and that's that like it makes
01:14:39
absolutely no sense that he was the one that got I mean I hope she had true remorse I hope again it doesn't change
01:14:46
the fact of what she did or that she's taking this man BR back this world this man who did nothing to her yeah except
01:14:52
take her in and it's like so it's like I hope yeah I'm glad she's you know that she went through and
01:15:00
hopefully nothing like this ever happens again that's a really [ __ ] up case it
01:15:05
is that's really [ __ ] up I don't even know what my closing thoughts are on that that's the thing I don't even
01:15:11
really know what my closing thoughts are and I've like I've been going over this
01:15:15
for the past few weeks that you can't take back yeah you've taken someone out of the world
01:15:22
permanently it's because of a rash decision that came together through many many other [ __ ] decisions around you and
01:15:30
by you like made for you and made and by you all of them together it was like such a [ __ ] storm of [ __ ] it was the
01:15:37
complete opposite of a perfect storm no it was a horrible storm but I think it's
01:15:41
good that we can't wrap our brains around this and that we don't have any we don't need to wrap up with thoughts
01:15:46
because there's no thoughts this is just wild awful and sad and tragic and shocking very shocking
01:15:55
wow but yeah that is the case of uh Marie robarts and the very tragic death of Step
01:16:03
robarts wow so we hope that you keep listening yeah we do and we hope you keep it we but not so weird that any of
01:16:12
this and definitely not so weird that if your kids comes to you with like a crazy
01:16:16
ass confession you're just like out on your own hun like come on help out don't keep it out there do a little work do do
01:16:23
a little something something yeah [Music] bye