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hey weirdos I'm Ash I'm Elena I'm Karen and I'm Sabrina and this is [Music] morbid
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oh wait more appropriate boo we're really good ghosts look at us we are did you guys think Spirits were
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Among Us I know that they are after yeah yes we we now know that Spirits are very
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I'm I'm becoming more and more A True True Believer at this point oh yeah like my skepticism is pretty much out the
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window after our night at the Lizzy Bardon house yeah no way so much happened so much happened so we recently
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as a forsome stayed a fearsome for forsome stayed at the Lizzy board and bed and
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breakfast again again and we and we actually had it all to ourselves which was hor so much scarier so much to
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ourselves that when we open the door with the code there was no one there greet us and we were like where are the
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people that work here and we almost didn't ever ask yeah 5 hours later we texted and we're like is someone here
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and they were like oh [ __ ] we forgot you guys were sit in the house tonight and
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honestly we have the ghost to thank for that cuz we wouldn't have contacted them
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unless we wanted to go to the basement ghost were like go to the [ __ ] to the basement yeah cuz we brought like we had
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a bunch of our own you know ghost hunting paranormal equipment they give you some there if you want to do like a
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little Ghost Hunt and we were getting so much [ __ ] over like we were getting EVPs
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we were getting stuff over the Spirit Box lights were diing I don't think we even had 15 minutes of Peace of
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chillness never it away always on happening and the feeling in that place is like nothing else it's it's you can't
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describe it but it's just like so dark it hits you right away my favorite is when the delivery guy was dropping off
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dinner I wish you all had seen his face he was like I don't want to be here he was staring and I opened the door and I
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think he was even more stunned that I opened the door and he's like why are you here didn't say anything the haunted
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house the door Creeks opens you standing there are you here for me is that my door Dash he's like I have
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a steak and cheese you guys want this full pork mac and cheese we we definitely brought snacks for the entire
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Village we sure did yes they were offerings they were that's true you know when we got stressed out we could just
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walk through the dining room and grab a snack real quick to calm us down never alone alone never alone until that very
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end not even going to the bathroom alone anytime someone had to go to the bathroom it was like everybody gather it
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was a group trip also like the multiple times that I feel like we went to the bathroom the r pods did go off that
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happened more than just once yeah you're right that did happen which is like are
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they trying to scare us or were they trying to bring us back into the room yeah they like come back in here what
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are you doing yeah or our pants down I don't know yeah there's also that or was it just that like we left the room so
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they felt more comfortable like about yeah you know yeah they were like oh they're gone their when I fell asleep
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in the one room and you guys you guys left me there and then we very G I was asleep how did you
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tell me I woke you up oh and I was like you're in my line of sight cuz I sat at like the end so I could still see
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you sat see me but then I did get spooked enough that I got up and I went and joined you guys in the other room
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and then it was not like 90 seconds later the r pod right next to the chair that I'd fallen asleep in started going
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off yeah the ghost did call us annoying a lot they did so much called us many things and stupid yeah yeah and [ __ ]
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[ __ ] yeah let's be real the the spirit called us [ __ ] over and and over it's
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like okay I get it like Dam all right is this high school and and just so you guys know in case you don't know like
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the rod is like this little box it has a bunch of little lights on it and a big antenna and it's not a motion detector
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like it's not like you walk well there are four lights that light up if there is motion but mid right yeah very very
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close be a lot of penetration it's not one of those your hand has to be right on top of you're like I'm proving it
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right but there's also that middle button that kept going off too was temperature fluctuation so we were
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getting a lot of all of it where it was like it suddenly got colder in the room setting off one alarm on the pod and
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then all of the other four lights that would say how close something was like in proximity would start going off
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meaning something was like right on top of mhm it was wild like really wild the amount of things that happened in that
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house I mean we were there for how long like hourss I think it would take probably like 10 hours for people to
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understand the gra like actually for us to go through all of it 100 we had so much activity it was astounding I was
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actually Astound there was we have a ton a ton of recordings from it like audio recordings video recordings and we we're
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going to talk about a couple of them here but we're going to do like an indepth look at them and we're going to
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hear the actual recordings on the two girls one ghost podcast so after you listen to this head on over there and go
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listen to the in-depth stuff because you're going to hear the audio stuff we'll talk even further about like every
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room that we were in cuz again it's like 10 hours just Insanity that looking back at
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it I was like wow all of that happened like in one night it's hard to even remember everything that happened
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because there was so much no it's true the next day Drew was like so like what happened I was like I don't
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know I was like a ghost called a [ __ ] that's really the bestl yeah that was definitely a
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highlight and it kept happening too that's why it was the most memorable he would follow us around a little bit and
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apparently he was the like trickster of the house but the guides told us that because we had a guide um Amber who was
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phenomenal came lat honestly shout out to Amber who was in bed and the management company was like oh [ __ ] we
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forgot people were staying at the house and they were supposed to get a tour will you go over to the house as if we
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hadn't already been investigating for like 5 hours on our own CU she came in and she was like oh [ __ ] I like you guys
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there with all the equipment already ready I glad that she came though because the basement we were being led
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to the basement yes and I think had we gone in there before we wouldn't have understood that we were dealing with
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something that's a trickster spirit and I'm worried that something scarier could
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have happened we could have been like oh what's who is this CU she was pretty quick to shoot that Spirit down as as
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she was around yeah she was great like whereas we might have yeah inquired more and asked more questions but who are you
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like we would have been tricked we were lured we were being lured down there absolutely it was definitely him and
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they were like super awesome after like they were like super apologetic that somebody wasn't there oh yeah it was
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like it was a great experience was also scared because in the reservations remember walking up to the house when
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she was coming to give us the tour management called her and just said you need to go give a a ghost tour at the
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house and gave her no other information and so she walked up and she like on on her side of like the tech that they use
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it didn't show that anyone had booked any room because we just booked the house so she was like what the [ __ ] she
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was like what am I walking into right now to give like 10:30 I think that she show like it
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was late night I can't imagine having to be on call for that to her Wy Wy head on
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down scom Ghost Hunt yeah team amember for Life fun though but yeah team amember
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but we we learned a lot too like they give you a a cool little backstory of certain things and we got like a little
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more like insight into stuff like they make sure to tell you we we've covered this case on the episode when was it it
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was 2018 yeah 2019 2019 I think yeah yeah yeah I think we did around that time too
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yeah but we learned so much more yeah being there being there AB gu I feel like I know way more now than even when
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we presented the case def that's why like we'll probably dip back into it at some point because I have more theories
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now but we covered it and again like I feel like I learned more this time like just of things that like like little
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nuances of the case that I didn't know before and and different and they make sure to tell you that Lizzy and Emma her
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sister are not in that house no no ghost in that house is Lizzy and you don't feel like you don't feel like feel her
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or her sister but they say they hated that house they didn't like living there when they were there because they're dad
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you know Andrew bordon who was one of the victims he P he was like he grew up and kind of poor and yeah he made his
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own means he made his own and so like he was very frugal as an adult because that's what he knew that's the only way
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I do love though that they she said while their Spirits aren't actively there people will hear screams because
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they were sisters and it's this residual like sisterly fighting yes MH I love that because I know those screams like
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my sister I were like that growing up yeah yeah so you know exactly what they're hearing like that yeah and the
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rooms are right next next to each other like the way the house is set up is very
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like 1800s it's like you have to go into Lizzy's room to get to it's kind of a maze wild that they had to the parents
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would like lock that door between the two rooms the two rooms cuz Lizzy would like steal things from there was known
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to be like a so I think they yeah they added a lock and sometimes they would put like a
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dresser in front of it point Didn't They say like they nailed it shut yeah they said they nailed it shut at one point
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that's wild it is they also locked their made away each night remember oh yeah she told us that as we were going
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down from the attic she showed where lock on the outside yeah yeah Bridget Bridget Sullivan I hate that I don't
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think I heard that when we were there God there were no house fires or anything seriously that's dangerous
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which we'll talk about obviously on the two girls one ghost feed we're going to talk about that room too because we were
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in's room and I feel like hers was very active we got every room every room we have something from every single it
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might we might need to look at a blueprint of the house go room by room it's so true honestly but on this speed
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we decided cuz we were thinking about like you know I I can't say for certain what I think happened there I just
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that's what's really hard about the case is so hard it there is no answer and there's no obvious answer either and
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there's so many theories that it's hard to land on just one and I know people are very definitive a lot of people
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really think she did it and they are really convinced she did it and I totally get why and then there are a lot
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of people who are 100% convinced she is innocent and I totally get why too I can
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see 100% both of those places I just can't on neither I sit right in the middle I and we will never actually know
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yeah I don't think we'll like I'm one of those people like with with the Jack the
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Ripper case we were like five episodes into that I was like almost 100 pages into like a dissertation about that case
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driving yourself I was becoming an actual ripperologist at that point I still I'm like I'm going to solve that
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case like and this is the same what as soon as I go into that house and start hearing about it again I'm like well
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let's go here I am I need to solve the Lizzy board like it's here I was sitting here telling Ash about it and I'll get
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into it that I was like getting on the floor and like acting out certain things cuz I was like if you do it at this
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angle it does it means somebody the left-handed thing and I don't know like I was right once I start it was
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impressive because you started theorizing and then you started looking at like the the different things that
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have actually been like recorded throughout history and they were right like they lining up with your theories
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and then I get really excited when I agree when like old timey detectives agree with me I get excited I'm like
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hell yeah that guy you totally were like an old timey detective in a past life I
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feel like I 100% I feel that in my bones I feel that in my that the best compliment ever no I think so too I love
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that I feel cuz I love these old timey cases I Can't Get Enough you're the you were the type of person that it was like
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oh we need them on the case hell yeah you were the S after detective yeah you were for sure like smoking cigars oh my
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God I can picture that right now black and white with the hat and the trench coat you had a monacle just cuz I want
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you to have absolutely I did for no other reason I want that I didn't need it just for fashion just for the
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aesthetic now I want you to do past life aggression and see what cases you actually were on oh my God we should all
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do one together that'd be fun we've been trying to find someone to do it with I would love to do that it's kind
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of the fear we just have to find a person to do it exactly yeah we'll do that we'll do everything with you we're
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already like what's our next Ghost Hunt oh yeah like this was only the beginning
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as far as we're concerned pretty much and the four of us together obviously our energies trigger something because
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you guys have you had already been to The lizie Bard house and done overnight and you would said that there wasn't
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nearly as much not at all it was wild we heard some things we you can see things out of the corner of your eyes
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that happened a lot this time but I thought a lot more this time yeah but we didn't get as many like of the lights
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happening I think it happened maybe like I I can't fully remember I feel like it
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might have happened like once or well it was also storming so it was hard to determine which the lights were May
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because of that or but this time it was non I was shocked it was like second we walked in with the lights like the
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second we walked in and it just kept it was it was relentless the activity in this is our ghost hunting group now this
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is hunting group we have to only can we get jackets made yeah and we're get we're going to get you ghost girl hats
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hell yes and then yes we need to make jacket we're jackets okay it's official it's happening so excited let's stop
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recording so we can figure out what the jackets look like here we come see you guys later okay but we haven't told you
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what we're we're doing on this feed we told you a lot about what we're doing on the two girls one G feed but on this
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feed do you want to well we decided cuz like going back there you start thinking
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about it you start hearing the like actual stuff about the case you start you know they have the autopsy photos
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there they have the crime scene photos there they are gnarly you can see them on the internet if you want to but
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warning they are graphic they really um very upsetting but you start hearing about that stuff and then you think
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about how people are either in one of those camps innocent or guilty this rarely any in between or gray area and
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except for all of us people who think that she did it are are kind of being validated by that nursery rhyme that we
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all have heard once or twice gave her mother 40 wax when she saw what she had done she gave her father 41 we used to
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jump rope to that when we were 100% And we figured we were like wow we're going to go into that nursery
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rhyme a little deeper and talk about how it is the the most inaccurate thing you've ever heard and also in so many
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ways in so many ways from the jum and just assuming her guilt first of all but all wrong and we thought wow like
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nursery rhymes do have weird Origins some of them are scary some of them are Dark a lot of them are are just weird
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and a lot of them are just like yeah some of them are just strange and we figur commentary yeah why not look back
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on a few nursery rhymes and see where they came from starting with the Lizzy bordon rhyme yes so Ash is going to do a
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little introduction yeah a little intro that Dave helped me shout out fancy intro yeah okay so as early as the 14th
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century and honestly probably even before that adults and children have been making up and documenting songs and
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Rhymes to share stories and basically just try to explain the world around them commonly referred to as nursery
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rhymes these simple folktales serve a ton of purposes like entertainment communication social bonding and they
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also encourage uh phonological awareness which is a way that people actually learn and understand the sound and
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structure of words and phases or phrases excuse me which I thought was cool that
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is cool however like folkore and urban legend nursery rhymes and children songs are also a powerful means of conveying
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social norms expectations and shared morality according to Lisa Hazlet from the University of South Dakota nursery
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rhymes are a form of quote unquote hidden literacies their verses their verses were powerful subversive opinions
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of political social or religious commentary regarding then contemporary events so essentially she's saying that
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just like slaying or other types of culturally specific vacular nursery rhymes are a way for a lot of times
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those in lower social or economic positions to criticize or talk back to their oppressors without being directly
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confrontational or putting themselves at risk which when you think about the Lizzie bordon rhyme it's like you're
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kind of mocking her but it's a nursery rhyme so absolutely you know now like all different urban legends and folklore
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they also tend to be regionally specific and address themes ideas or issues related to the place where they get
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created in the first place so getting topical here the Lizzie bordon Took an Ax rhyme it's an upbeat eight lines
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children's rhyme that very Loosely like we were just saying conveys the story of
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Lizzie bordon and even though she ended up being found not guilty most people in
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and around Fall River Massachusetts at the time specifically believed that Lizzy was most definitely resp
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responsible but had gotten away with the murder so she was completely ostracized
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by almost everybody in town and local kids would gather outside of the house that she moved to after the murders
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Maple coft that was the one up on the hill right up on the hill we actually drove by it when we left oh did you yeah
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it's beautiful it is but kids would literally stand outside that house chanting that rhyme at her it's kind of
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like impr Practical Magic when all the kids bully you're cuz they would do that to her yeah just like sit in her living
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room with her dogs if she didn't do it too like you were saying that earlier yeah like if she didn't do it how
00:19:05
horrific like your parents were murdered in your home and then for the rest of your life people are singing the song
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like you did it and it has this like weird cheerful tone to it that it's like la la
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la mean and nothing like people are still mean like that like you know bullying into oh yeah yeah people are
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ruthless people are it's a dawn of time yeah but it was a way of constantly reminding both the local courts and the
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very wealthy Lizzy bordon up on that Hill that no matter what the law said they in the community knew for a fact
00:19:35
that she was a murderer which maybe not nobody can be sure nobody can be maybe although the one okay the one fact that
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was really strange to me that Amber had told us was that they never searched her
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room because she was a woman Ander seemed improper yeah which that to me is crazy yeah like they couldn't go in her
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room well even her throwing out some of her own like bloody clothes they didn't investigate it because she said she was
00:20:02
on her period so they were like oh gross not touching that like seasoned investigators who were literally doing a
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crime scene where a man's face was just gone because of a hatchet maybe I can smell the scent from her room we won't
00:20:20
go in there it's like what no that's so [ __ ] up this man's face was literally caved in and you are scared of period
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blood on don't talk to us about that yeah they're like that's gross what's that then what's what's that in the
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living room if this is gross what's that wild he's a man so he's a man that's a man's blood Cranium blood that's Cranium
00:20:41
blood that's a different it's a different kind of blood uh but honestly I think I I think I'm G to end up
00:20:48
becoming like a Lizzy olist at some point we're going to we're going toit you might already be yeah we're going to
00:20:54
revisit we're all invested so I think maybe if you guys are down at some point we might do an in-depth back at it
00:21:02
another dissertation coming your way honestly this is one I could get down with because I remember hearing about
00:21:07
this since like third grade and just like wanting to know the truth and we obviously we did the episode we did one
00:21:12
at the Lizzy Borg house you know years ago obviously but I we didn't go as in depth as I think I can now so yeah so uh
00:21:21
oh everybody different time strap in it's happening but right now I'll just give you a quick little overview I'm
00:21:27
going to give you a look at the rhyme and I'm going to tell you why the rhyme is wrong and then
00:21:32
because I can't stop there ever and brevity is not my strong suit never I have to talk to you about the autopsy
00:21:37
really quick and why those wounds don't make any sense I'm excited for this cuz that's the perspective that none of us
00:21:43
have the skill set to understand you do this is it's very interesting it's an interesting one for sure so as you guys
00:21:50
know Andrew and Abby bordon were killed in their home in Fall River Massachusetts on August 4th
00:21:55
1892 um again this is huge Massachusetts crime the fact that it happened like right right in Massachusetts everybody's
00:22:03
kind of obsessed with it like we can't stop it's never going to go away you go north you get Salem and the witches you
00:22:09
go south you get Lizzie bordon and her ass so true we just are like we we're really focused on these things but like
00:22:15
ash said a lot of people believe that Andrew and Abby boron's daughter Lizzy is the culprit but she was acquitted
00:22:23
have to keep saying it she was acquitted um so going back to the Lizzy bordon Took an Axe rhyme like we said it's
00:22:30
Lizzie bordon Took an Axe gave her mother 40 wax when she saw what she had done she gave her father 41 this seems
00:22:37
to have actually been created very soon after the trials and murder because in the herald the News Herald on February
00:22:44
15th 1894 so only two years after the crimes were committed and actually barely two
00:22:50
years um there is an article that says quote a Boston lady who brings her children up very carefully and never
00:22:57
allows them to see a newspaper found them on going into her Nursery the other day singing Lizzie bordon Took an Axe
00:23:04
gave her mother 20 wax after seeing what she had done gave her father 21 so it started closer to the actual amount of
00:23:14
ax wax that did happen and we have since almost doubled the number as we come this way my gosh also Imagine Sheltering
00:23:20
your children forever and that's the first [ __ ] thing they find like you're like this is exactly what I did
00:23:26
in I'm like you know what maybe let them read the newspaper now iess maybe they wouldn't be cuz maybe they'll have the
00:23:31
real story at this point also I also think it's it comments on our society and like the way that it started with 20
00:23:38
wax to 40 of the way that we love to exaggerate and dramatize things over time and things that are already
00:23:46
horrific in and of themselves and do not need to be made worse like she hated her
00:23:51
father's face no matter how many times that's allegedly somebody somebody somebody got Andrew Bor matter
00:23:58
how many times that happened it's it's brutal like we don't need to up the antie there no and that's the thing so
00:24:03
the first thing that's that I can think of that's wrong about this is Andrew bordon was killed while taking a nap on
00:24:08
the couch in the front sitting room and he was struck with what they believe is a hatchet 11 times but Elena doesn't
00:24:15
know guys we're not sure if it's a hatchet they think it was a hatchet they think it matched a hatchet they found
00:24:20
the like head of a hat like a I think a handleless hatchet on the property but they could never determine it was
00:24:26
actually the one right but there are thoughts that it could have been something else maybe an iron flat one of
00:24:31
those little things that was found on the stove which they have a ton of in that in that house and we were talking
00:24:38
and it's connected that weapon of opportunity it's right to the kitchen yeah yeah so that is a thought and who
00:24:45
knows because again autopsies weren't like topnotch back then so it's not like they could absolutely also we should
00:24:51
note that autopsies took place in the house in the dining room literally in the dining room we spent a lot of our
00:24:57
night on the dining room table yeah where all our snacks were was the autopsy table that was hanging up on
00:25:03
display was that the actual one used the one that was actually used in this case
00:25:08
but it is an antique it's not a replica it's an antique autopsy table other people had autopsy autopsy performed on
00:25:15
their bodies yeah but not the bordens for that one okay but that is the actual room that it happened in um but AB Abby
00:25:23
bordon was killed in the guest bedroom right up at the top of the stairs and she was struck 18 times with a hatchet
00:25:29
so she got more than Andrew and she was killed first they believe wasn't the uncle staying in that room at that like
00:25:36
during time he was that is the John moris room right yeah she was changing the Linens yeah they believe she was
00:25:42
there's also like a thought that I think Lizzy said at one point when they asked
00:25:47
where Abby could have been she was like she was probably sewing and there's a sewing machine in there so there was
00:25:52
like all these theories was she sitting down when it happened I don't think so doesn't make sense to me yeah but it's
00:25:58
fully believed that Abby was killed first while like you said she was either putting Linens away doing something in
00:26:04
that room you know it's a guest bedroom you're always doing something in a guest
00:26:07
bedroom when someone's staying with you yeah so there is a closet at the top of the staircase too and it's thought that
00:26:13
maybe someone had H and investigators believe this that someone hid in that closet and came out when she was in the
00:26:19
bedroom and struck her from behind possibly waited in that closet again until Andrew came home and fell asleep
00:26:25
and then went down and killed him then you know and that all makes sense cuz like no one else saw anybody else so it
00:26:32
makes sense that he would hide or she um then when we stayed in the house this time what made this wild to me was we
00:26:41
went into that John Morse room the room that Abby was found in the room that that like Infamous crime scene photo was
00:26:46
taken in and the words immediately that came through on our little like you know
00:26:53
Spirit Box type thing um was dirty and then closet and as soon as they said Closet in that room I I asked did
00:27:03
someone hide in the closet and then they she said startled mhm and we were like start of the closet stuff we didn't know
00:27:10
it before yeah I didn't know that that was a possibility and when I found that out I was like why in that room would
00:27:17
that word come out cuz it didn't happen again or before that in any other room nope not the word I mean that was like
00:27:23
every haunting we experienced was so specific to what has happened in the house what is alleged to haveed and the
00:27:30
ofs that are to be in and I feel like I mean I this to you when we got to the house like K and I both decided we're
00:27:36
not going to relisten to the episode that we did about Lizzie bordon because we just didn't want any
00:27:41
information to like sway our experience yeah we didn't want to be influenced no definitely not so the fact that none of
00:27:48
us maybe in the past we had had that knowledge but that it was just like yeah that's what it the closet thing really
00:27:57
shook me that's a weird word to just be said in that and it was so specific it was
00:28:06
like a minute after we got in that room too it was like we were in that room we settled for a second and then it was
00:28:11
like closet mhm right well and those words were not repeated at all throughout the night in any other room
00:28:18
first and only time that that was said yes and it's like when I found out that they think someone was hiding in the
00:28:23
closet it's like why would that be said that's so much of a coincidence if that's the case so many other EVPs that
00:28:28
will like visit on you guys' feed that why would that be said in that room like like the kids and everything can't wait
00:28:35
to talk about that when we get into the kids guys that that's on another level John's like a my husband is like a super
00:28:43
like he's open-minded with that stuff but he's he's a skeptic like he wants to debunk it immediately and he doesn't he
00:28:50
like he can't stand like any ghost shows or anything like like on TV where like they're hunting ghosts he's always like
00:28:56
I don't know I feel like this is just for TV yeah like he's a super sometimes I feel like that too do fully believe in
00:29:02
the Paranormal and when I watch those shows I'm like it's hard you're like it's TV they need to entertain people ex
00:29:08
exactly so he's always kind of like eh so when I came home and I showed him the video of the kids room and some of the
00:29:15
things that happened there he was like I have the chills like he was like I can't
00:29:18
explain that CU he gets the uncut version he gets to watch the 16 minutes of us sitting there asking in the like
00:29:24
awkward 45 seconds of Silence waiting for a resp and then seeing that they like fully
00:29:29
responded to us while we were talking there he was like I can't argue against that like that's a wild one yeah each
00:29:35
room was and what happened in each room what came through on the spare boxes and
00:29:40
all of the devices were very specific the messaging yeah very much and that that closet thing I just we started and
00:29:49
the word strangled came out in that room too yeah that was in like the actual like Spirit box that we were using yeah
00:29:55
so we kind of so Ash and I were sitting here and we were like trying to like theorize around a strangulation possibly
00:30:02
because that's not anywhere really like when you find like that some people have
00:30:05
mentioned it here or there it's really not a thing like that she was strangled or anything like that so I started I was
00:30:11
like you know what like let me look at the autopsy report and see if anything in there can tell you it's not detailed
00:30:17
so it's like you're not getting a lot out of there and nothing like right up nothing scream strangulation in that or
00:30:23
anything like that um but there were contusions to the of aby's nose and her forehead mhm which are interesting um
00:30:31
and initially I figured my initial thought with that was like okay that was probably her falling forward after she
00:30:37
got hit yeah and she didn't stop herself using her hands cuz she had been hit in
00:30:41
the head and incapacitated and just right flat on the on the ground you know but or maybe she fell forward and then
00:30:48
was hit and it was like the force of the wax like her face into the ground that kind of thing or I mean this is a really
00:30:55
aggressive Theory but like if someone did grab her from the back of her neck and just slam her possi or possibly like
00:31:01
you said grabbed her from the back of the neck and slammed her into the wall front of her into the into the bureau
00:31:08
next to her there's a buau next to hery duty pieces of furniture your face into those that's
00:31:15
solid wood there was no wood veneer no days it's not from ik heavy no very solid and these were two like the
00:31:25
contusion on her forehead was on the left side like above her eyebrow and on her left
00:31:29
side of her forehead and the bureau if she was facing the wall which is where she was found is to her left if they
00:31:35
took her and slammed her into that dresser MH to first like incapacitate her but then according to the autopsy
00:31:41
report looking at the 18 wounds to her head the first one was called a glancing scalp wound so it was seems to me like
00:31:50
that would be one that was like quick and not aimed properly and I just got to get this in was wasn't even as hard as
00:31:57
it could have possibly been cuz it's a glancing scalp wound it was like 2 in long um 1 and 1/2 in wide and it was
00:32:05
struck about 3 in above her left ear hole so that was interesting to me because it was said to be done in a
00:32:13
downwards motion that did not penetrate the skull so it just didn't go through the skull just a glancing scalp wound
00:32:20
about three Ines up from her ear hole which is near your temple does that mean someone was taller than her too that was
00:32:26
my thought because if you look at Lizzy Lizzy is like 5 foot three 5'4 is what she's thought to have been and Abby is
00:32:33
5'3 so they're about the same height I mean I guess you could raise your like you could definitely raise above for
00:32:39
sure but she was also the first one killed in the house and so that sort of thing where you you try to hit but you
00:32:46
miss that to me indicates there was still a lot of like adrenaline and nervousness building up too yeah
00:32:52
especially if they're waiting in the closet for a long time exact and then you're just bursting out and you got to
00:32:56
do it before she can scream because Bridget Sullivan is outside washing windows all this is happening so you
00:33:02
need to do this quick and you need to incapacitate someone quick right um so again not hard enough to penetrate the
00:33:08
skull but a decent wound and the Temple area which if you're hitting the temple you're going to be dazed and started
00:33:15
that's a place you don't want to be hit it's going to like [ __ ] with you doesn't
00:33:18
that bleed a ton to it bleeds a ton cuz there's a lot of like stuff going on in there but interestingly though it was
00:33:24
her left side which to me would to indicate a left-handed person because if you're walking up behind her you're not
00:33:31
going to reach across your body to whack her in the left side so that' just be so
00:33:37
awkward yeah it would just be an awkward thing and it would add extra seconds to
00:33:41
what you're doing cross body and you're not getting a good whack yeah you don't have nearly as much control you don't
00:33:47
have near and then it's like but if it was a glancing scalp wound was it a right-handed person and they didn't have
00:33:53
a lot of control so they hit it not that hard but also we have to remember that people were forced into learning to be
00:33:59
right-handed so perhaps it was someone who to the public and in school were right-handed but naturally to them using
00:34:07
their left-handed exactly or their left hand because people point to the fact that Lizzie was right-handed but maybe
00:34:13
in school she was nothing says that she was not ambidextrous and was just taught
00:34:17
to be right-handed we don't know either way right so it could have been either way but then we were thinking okay that
00:34:25
would happen if you were coming from behind um but and I do believe she was snuck on snuck up on behind cuz the way
00:34:33
she fell it just doesn't make sense that she was turned to face someone um but the second hit was directly to the top
00:34:39
of her skull which if done by Lizzy would only be done likely if Abby fell to her knees first which she did right
00:34:49
that that well we don't know if she fell to her knees she she landed that way end
00:34:53
up falling to her knees but I don't know if she just fell like crumpled into that
00:34:56
position because also they moved her to take pictures so like those are even a little bit like caring for I forgot that
00:35:04
they had moved them they said that she was found with her knees up a little bit but that's like you know we can only go
00:35:10
by so much but she would have had to have fallen to her knees if this was Lizzy because of the height I don't
00:35:17
think she would be able to get a good whack to the full top of her skull and it wasn't done with her lying on the
00:35:24
ground cuz you're not if she's lying on the ground then her head a little down you're not going to get a good whack on
00:35:29
the top of the head so she had to have been at least on her knees um and again she would have needed to be facing away
00:35:35
here's a question and I wonder if this lines so we heard the closet startled what if Abby was going to put
00:35:43
away Linens or to open that closet door and then got startled that first scrape that kind of hit on the odd side of the
00:35:50
head where we're like that person would have to be left-handed what if that happened there she started R she was so
00:35:55
scared she fell down and hit herself and that's when she was on the ground and started getting that absolutely could
00:36:01
have happened yeah that definitely could have that does make sense of like blood
00:36:06
spatter elsewhere that's an interesting thing so they don't it seems like it all
00:36:11
happened in that one spot in that corner but also the blood SP is strange it's like it doesn't seem like it was enough
00:36:20
almost like it's like so could have some could have been washed a lot of it probably got on the person okay To be
00:36:26
honest and especially when you get to like we're going to get to a point where it
00:36:31
does penetrate through the skull in the autopsy report the pieces do and when it
00:36:36
penetrates through a skull you're going to be pulling back out and it's going to
00:36:40
make a lot so it's going to spray a lot and it did stay in that little corner so
00:36:45
I think the majority of it happened in that corner but it's just that thing of like she definitely hadn't fallen down
00:36:51
yet when that second hit happen because she she at least had to be on her knees are standing because to get the top of
00:36:58
the head it's just the angle right you wouldn't with the wall there you wouldn't you would have to like almost
00:37:03
Golf Club swing into the top of her head to get it so you had to get a good like
00:37:08
Leverage on so it's either someone who was taller or if it was Lizzy she had open on her knees yeah which kind of
00:37:15
like Works a little bit both ways because it's like At first you're like okay well because they're the same
00:37:22
hitish a little bit it's less likely to be Lizzy because they were able to do that yeah but then if she fell on her
00:37:27
knees it makes sense and she was found with her knees up a little bit which kind of leads me to believe that she
00:37:33
went down on her knees first and then kind of was whacked down more cuz to get 18 wax and a lot of them on the top of
00:37:40
the head it was before you fell and I don't think you were standing that whole time I think you fell to your knees to
00:37:46
me it's like definitive she was facing the other way and startled because you know like we said it's it looks like a
00:37:53
left-handed person she was found facing the wall mhm on on her knees if she had fallen to her knees after that first hit
00:37:59
and was facing someone she would have fallen all the way down facing the other way you're not doing like a spin after
00:38:05
no you're not just turn and you're not going to turn and try to run into the wall like you're going to try to run out
00:38:11
the door yeah but there's a surpris little thing in that in that autopsy report because before the head wounds so
00:38:18
before that head wound on the left side of her of her skull before even the one above that she was struck in the back
00:38:26
first which kind of confirms the turned around because it was somewhere above her spine in between the junction where
00:38:34
like her neck and her body kind of meat what I hate about this so much is that I'm picturing someone coming out of
00:38:41
the closet making eye contact with Abby aby's already in that spot and doesn't really know what to do she's the person
00:38:48
is just coming around and trying to like almost hook her with the ax to prevent her from being able to get
00:38:55
away what if she didn't I kind of hope she didn't see it coming like if they didn't
00:39:00
make eye contact and also isn't there like a place in your spine you would know if like where it's hit and it kind
00:39:07
of severs your ability to feel it kind of like C5 stay alive is what it is I hope that that's if they hit feel the
00:39:16
pain of everything else I think unfortunately this was like a little superficial in the I would love to
00:39:24
believe that too but this is basically one of those things that just kind of tells us a little more about like the
00:39:30
fact that she was facing the wall when this happened which means either this person like ran out of the closet up on
00:39:37
her or they might have like snuck on her like if she was bent down or getting something out of a drawer facing the the
00:39:45
bureau and they just kind of like creeped up behind her and then whack or and this is going in the direction of if
00:39:52
it was Lizzy she wouldn't have cared if Lizzie walked in the room true so li like chatting holding something behind
00:40:00
her back went about her business if she was being like oh Abby baah baah ba and then W up like your I think she called
00:40:06
her mother bordon mother bordon no no no Mrs bordon bord she wasn't her mother and she didn't like her yeah they didn't
00:40:14
get along which leaning toward if Lizzie did it Abby got hit a lot more she sure
00:40:20
did then the father she 18 to 11 so that's that's a lot there's that and again like I said I don't know I'm no
00:40:28
I'm no longer convinced I have any idea what happened so these are both sides reason that I by Lizzie doing it is the
00:40:36
whole theory of like her father's abuse and all of that and her being pushed to a to a place where she had to defend
00:40:42
herself so in that but in that regard it's like wouldn't he then have more injuries you would think that's the
00:40:48
thing well I I was reading while you were reading all the autopsy reports I was just reading different theories and
00:40:53
I guess there's not a lot of evidence that he was abusive yeah I think it's just like um it's kind of a rumor it's
00:40:58
kind of like gossip to try to justify why someone would do that yeah and actually a lot of people say that she
00:41:04
was his favorite daughter and she was actually treated a lot better than Emma was and he like gave into her requests a
00:41:11
lot more than he gave into Emma interesting yeah I will say though with Abby getting more
00:41:17
wax it was the first crime out of the two so you're got make sure yeah and also it's just like the you need to make
00:41:26
sure that it's done right before it's kind of like when people are repeat offenders and repeat Killers often times
00:41:32
their earlier crimes are the ones that will get them caught because they're the messiest yeah it's true and they need
00:41:38
and if they had the idea I need to eliminate these two people M then I need to make sure this is done I can't leave
00:41:45
any kind of possibility that this wasn't done before I move on to the next one you can take a little more time with
00:41:50
Andrew mhm yeah and especially if Andrew was out of the house in town while this
00:41:55
was happening they could have which they there is that he was time yeah and then
00:42:00
they waited for him to come in and fall asleep and it makes sense cuz there's no
00:42:03
way that he could have I think even if he was sleeping he would have been woken up by this sound she would have right
00:42:08
not that not necessarily that she would have screamed because maybe she didn't but I think just the sound of like
00:42:13
repeated like because they're close those those rooms are not far away each other the uh I think it was Bridget and
00:42:21
somebody else I'm not sure who was with her who discovered Abby's body and they only made it halfway up the stairs
00:42:26
before they saw yeah it was it's that room right at the top of the stair Lally right there you can you would definitely
00:42:31
hear something and it's an old home like you would hear someone bump to the floor
00:42:35
and not only is it an old home there was no electricity no water no nothing so it's even quieter than a regular house
00:42:42
yeah you can't blame it on anything else yeah exactly and going back to how the word strangulation was said yeah in in
00:42:49
the room when we were there I was trying to think of any way that this would work
00:42:53
and the only thing I can think of is could she have been placed in a headlock in any at any point during this and then
00:42:59
the person kind of struck down at her that way that's kind of what I thought but that's also taking away a lot of
00:43:06
Leverage and force it could also just imply like loss of breathing just like the shock like feeling strangled feeling
00:43:15
like you're strangled and also maybe blood was coming out their mouth which could cause strangulation that's true
00:43:23
yeah so I've been watching a lot of house lately so so like I got my theories but there's also you know that
00:43:30
that theory of like the iron flat being used as the murder weapon which is an interesting thing um because they're not
00:43:37
even sure that the hatchet matches all the wounds they think it's a likely Hatchet
00:43:42
but it's interesting that that's not even set in stone but they really go with that like this was an interesting
00:43:48
investigation y'all yeah but the closet thing is wild wild yeah um but back to the rhyme just
00:43:57
to conclude that whatever you think happened if Lizzie did it or not the rhyme has remained and is very wrong uh
00:44:03
it's wrong about the number of times they were both hit it's presuming an axe was used which an axe wasn't even the
00:44:08
thing that they thought was used it's a hatchet which is a different thing always what I like equate with this
00:44:14
crime I'm like oh like you think Lizzie bord and you think AXS and then I think I just recently realized like no it
00:44:20
wasn't even an axe even though we've covered this before my brain always goes there because it's just indoctrinated by
00:44:26
that Nursery lizy bordon took an axe that's like it's you don't say lizy took a hatchet it does not sound me something
00:44:34
that rhymes with wax and that's the only thing that work Hatchet you can't which
00:44:38
a hatchet is much easier to wield than an axe that's the other thing it's so true it's a handheld thing so but it's
00:44:46
also that rhyme is also assuming and telling everybody else that Lizzy is the one who did it not even giving you any
00:44:53
other suspects just Lizzy did it um and like you said when she went to live on the hill in Maple coft kids would sing
00:45:00
it on her lawn and sing it on her front porch um and again if she didn't do it that's like the most horrific nightmare
00:45:06
I could ever imagine didn't you say they also used to throw rotten eggs at her house oh yeah so in um in a in a newsp
00:45:12
paper article called bothering Lizzy grown boys and girls unwelcome callers at miss bordon it was in the Fall River
00:45:19
Daily Globe on May 9th 1902 it said the police were called to the bordon home and led to believe the hill boys and
00:45:26
girls were trampling over the lawn lambasting the side of the boarding home with decayed eggs ringing the doorbell
00:45:33
late at night tying the doors and calling her vile names when Lizzie answered the door the police were unable
00:45:40
to capture the offenders which if she didn't do it that's so [ __ ] like this girl was acquitted she wased these are
00:45:48
like little Rich [ __ ] well what this is is their parents telling them that's Lizzie boron's house she killed her
00:45:56
parents it like they're the ones telling that those kids aren't coming up with it
00:45:59
on their own no where was Emma again when this happened Emma was visiting friends when this happened yeah when the
00:46:06
murder happened or had been gone for like two and I think they live no later in life they spent a lot of time
00:46:11
together they did but then I think there was a big feud between them toward the end of their lives I remember the
00:46:17
original tour that we went on something happened between them and Emma left Maple Croft yeah I think you're right
00:46:23
and you know what we'll go further into that when revisit this case cuz we are absolutely revisiting this case cuz I
00:46:29
have so many theories I want to get into but like we don't have time today and I'm like chomping at the bit just to
00:46:34
talk about all I know so now I'm like we're going to do a whole other thing on this because I'm going to look into like
00:46:40
everything who knows maybe we'll have to go back I know now I'm like and it's it's we can go there it's conceivable
00:46:47
that we can go back so it's like being able to go to the actual place that it happened is a whole different ball game
00:46:53
because Jack the Ripper I was like can we going to White Chapel really quick like I just I want to see these places
00:46:59
like let's go next time you go you just bust it and you're like okay here are the theories all right tell me which
00:47:04
one's right say a name I'm going to go room to room and do an investigation again I think we have to I'm just saying
00:47:10
I think so okay but yeah so that is the Lizzy bordon Tok an axe nursery rhyme yes and should I start with my my first
00:47:18
other nor nursery rhyme this is my second noiser Ren so I kind of love that so that's like let that's a nursery
00:47:31
rhyme but it's more like you said like you know jumping rope song 4 exactly there you go yeah cuz you
00:47:39
say like one two three this is an actual nursery rhyme so everybody knows Three Blind Mice yes the strangest nursery
00:47:48
rhyme ever it really is it's pretty out front with the brutality and the weirdness cuz you're like just topping
00:47:54
off mice's tails yeah don't be doing that so this is actually this is definitely one of those Mery tutor kind
00:48:01
of Nursery R it was produced during her reain yeah a lot of nursery rhymes noiser Rhymes came out during her rign
00:48:08
that is true so many of them are about her yep and a lot of them are just like Sensational and wild um a lot of them
00:48:15
are supposedly talking about her unrestrained use of violence to reinstate that Catholic Church in
00:48:21
England um among those three blind mice definitely stands out is one of the more
00:48:26
explicit like I was saying it's just like right out there um the rhyme first appeared in D I don't know if I'm going
00:48:33
to say this right dud romilia dilia I'm GNA go that did you went for it I did it
00:48:39
yeah um or the second part of music's Melody which is a book of poems and songs that was originally published in
00:48:46
1609 and this is what it originally said three blind mice Three Blind Mice Dame lulon Dame lulon the Miller and his
00:48:54
Merry Old wife wife she scraped her tripe licked thou the knife don't know what the [ __ ] that means but it was
00:49:03
written in Old English and the rhyme doesn't specifically reference violence in this this version of it and given the
00:49:11
language it's like a little difficult to interpret actually at all but later whatever she's doing she seems to enjoy
00:49:17
it if she's licking a knife yeah it seems like there's some some some's Brewing it's a weird visual
00:49:23
but later we got the more commonly version and that's three blind mice Three Blind Mice See How They Run See
00:49:30
How They Run they all ran after the farmer's wife who cut off their tails with a carving knife did you ever see
00:49:36
such a sight in your life as Three Blind Mice and in this version Mary tutor is supposed to be the farmer's wife or the
00:49:44
person in a position of power and the three blind mice are a lot of times interpreted as the three Protestant
00:49:51
Bishops that tutor had blinded and burned at the stake for defying her attempts to reinstate Catholic power in
00:49:58
England [ __ ] so it's pretty gnarly yeah now interestingly this rhyme first appeared as a folk song and according to
00:50:06
Iona and Peter Opie they didn't appear in children's literature until about 1842 and in that case the very thinly
00:50:13
veiled references to violence and their possible connection to tutor actually make sense they're more explicit because
00:50:20
they're intended for adults at that point so but as a children's rhyme it's still conveys a reminder I guess of like
00:50:27
the dangers one can face when you know willfully defying the crown of the church so don't do that yeah don't keep
00:50:35
it that weird don't keep it that weird I suppose because you can be blinded and burned at the stake I suppose so fun
00:50:41
it's I mean you could do anything back in the day and and you could literally do nothing and be accused of something
00:50:47
you could just exist exactly breathing having lungs in your body a woman being any kind of human yeah so yeah that's
00:50:56
three blind mice really cute rhyme always thought it was weird never saying it to my kids yeah there's a lot of
00:51:02
Rhymes I feel like we don't we didn't sing any nursery rhymes to your kids cuz they're all strange yeah we got some
00:51:07
like books when they were little like people would give you books of like nursery rhymes and stuff and a lot of
00:51:12
times I'd be in the middle of reading one at book at bedtime and I'd be like we're going to do another book you know
00:51:18
what I I don't know about this one cuz a lot of them like have like racist undertones to them and they're not even
00:51:25
like subtle like they're like it's right I feel gross reading this so I'm not going to read it to you and we're going
00:51:32
to get rid of this book yeah we're going to go ahead and say goodbye to that it is weird and kind of disturbing how so
00:51:37
many things that are geared towards children yeah are like their roots are very terrifying or just violent violent
00:51:47
racist like even like Grim's fairy tales like some are rooted in dark things or a
00:51:52
lot of them like even I was looking at like some European in worldwide nursery rhymes and they so many of them are
00:51:59
written to terrify kids with the purpose of behave or this terrifying monster is
00:52:04
going to come eat you yes that's just like how people raised their kids back in the day they were just like terrified
00:52:09
them into submission it reminds me of Dwight in the office when he says learn your rules you better learn your rules
00:52:16
if you don't you'll be eaten in your sleep I never even watched the office but I learned that from you and I love
00:52:25
so funny well I have a little bit of a different one I have Goosey Goosey Gander so adorable I bet it has such
00:52:31
aesome Goosey Goosey Gander I didn't even know this one actually really but I don't think I do either do do you know
00:52:37
how it goes I will tell you now cuz I do now but I guess this popular British children's rhyme Goosey Goosey Gander
00:52:44
first appeared in gammer girton's Garland or the nursery par twister I know I love a good
00:52:51
alliteration oh yeah but it was a collection of popular children's Nur Nery Rhymes first published in
00:52:57
1784 and the most common version is Goosey Goosey Gander with shall I wander upstairs and downstairs and in my lady's
00:53:04
chamber there I met an old man who wouldn't say his prayers so I took him by his left leg and threw him down the
00:53:12
stairs I hope the left leg is not about a leg well later versions of this rhyme came to include an additional four Lin
00:53:24
lines it needed a little bit more yeah they like you know what that's not enough it leaves it leaves you wanting
00:53:29
more it did to be honest it did so here you go the stairs went crack he nearly broke his back I'm sure and all the
00:53:37
little ducks went quack quack quack adorable so one popular love it I just picture a child just launching an old
00:53:47
man down the stairs by his left leg and it's like what because he didn't pray cuz he didn't pray he didn't say his
00:53:52
prayers and then the Ducks are like quack quack quack quack to me it was like when it was talking
00:53:56
about the the ladyes chambers and stuff I felt like he was just a perv that they
00:54:00
were like yeah kick you out down the stairs that's why I was hoping it was launched by the third leg so I think you
00:54:07
guys are kind of on to the right the right track there yeah because one popular interpretation of this rhyme is
00:54:13
uh that it contains sexual overtones with the goose symbolizing fertility particularly with the reference my
00:54:19
lady's chamber uh similarly librarian Chris Roberts writes in days gone by Goose was a common term for and he says
00:54:27
prostitute so the early part of the rhyme conceivably alludes to the spread of venial disease oh with lines about
00:54:34
wandering in a lady's Chambers referring to the procurement of a sex worker Services wow and then like you know
00:54:42
throwing them out once the services have been procured yeah yes right but oh no one likes a man who lingers no don't be
00:54:49
lingering she'll throw you down the stairs but that's not the only interpretation another popular
00:54:54
interpretation is that the Goosey Gander rhyme actually tells a story of religious persecution
00:54:59
in England I guess in 1650 there were a [ __ ] ton of brothel around London that
00:55:05
existed on land that was actually owned by the Catholic Church which like conceive that in your mind yeah interes
00:55:12
yeah very ironic but when Henry VI e seized that land and then claimed it for the crown he not only shut down the
00:55:17
broel brothel excuse me sending their customers wandering but he also dealt a very heavy blow to Catholicism
00:55:25
so the reference to the old man who wouldn't say his prayers could possibly be a reference to Catholic priests and
00:55:32
Bishops who were punished for not reading from scripture published by the church of England and for resisting or
00:55:38
defying Protestant Authority So Not only would that explanation be a more complete interpretation of the rhyme
00:55:45
because like the sexual overtones are there but then you get to the end and it does kind of fall off like he wouldn't
00:55:49
say his prayers but uh it would also be in keeping with hazlett's Theory of hidden literacies in this case the
00:55:57
simple cheery children's rhyme is used to explain a major shift in the physical and cultural landscape that removed
00:56:03
power from the Catholic church and it reminded others of the potential consequences of defying Protestant rule
00:56:10
damn Henry VII is just like all up in everything terrible he's just all up in everything anything in history he might
00:56:17
be my Jack the Ripper it's fascinating like London and English History yes you start looking into that
00:56:27
it's hard to stop and there's so many Mysteries like the Ming missing princes that it's so sad it's so so sad found
00:56:36
many my they believe they found the remains of two like child like but they there's no way to verif confirm it right
00:56:44
yeah but they they just believe it to be true but that there's so many like that
00:56:50
the wives like we saw six which by the way too it's so fun it is so fun I loved at the end how everyone was like
00:57:00
standing up and dancing everyone just dances mus is is really fun and that as soon it's like
00:57:07
after that you're just like now I want to know everything like you just can't stop like I actually saw that show right
00:57:13
after we had done a two-parter on Tower of London oh really and so I was like so
00:57:18
fully immersed in that history already that I was like we left and I was rattling off all these facts to my
00:57:23
family and my sister's like who are you going fun when you like hyper fixate on something and you're like let me tell
00:57:30
you everything I know God someone's like what is wrong with you knows all about hyperfixation because every single week
00:57:37
I'll look over at him and I'll just be like do you want to know about submersibles and he's like why he's like
00:57:42
no I don't actually like again sometimes I'll come over and he's like she's going
00:57:46
to tell you about this yeah he's like she's going to tell you about something today just listen like just let her get
00:57:51
through it do you guys have a hyperfixation meal like a food that you just have every single day wear it out
00:57:57
to the point where I don't like it and I have to leave it for a while and then I'll come back to it later so many
00:58:02
people have those and I don't think I have one really yeah cuz I I feel a little bit out of the crowd because
00:58:08
everyone Explorer you're you're a gemin I feel like Geminis are just like whatever do
00:58:14
whatever but every girly on Tik Tok is like this is my hyperfixation meal and I'm like I want one I hyper fix it on
00:58:20
everything like I have a hyperfixation meal music movies books like I hyper fixate on things yeah when I have it
00:58:30
like when I'm in one thing I'm so hyper in it that yeah I have to know everything about it I have to like like
00:58:36
I John showed me ghost the band I knew the entire lore of that band like and three years in we don't really listen to
00:58:44
other music no like in the car with Elena I Len like and this is why we understand your
00:58:51
day list recommendation let's check our day list mine always are mean to me is this one mean to you right now wait oh
00:59:01
mine is anti-depression grief Thursday wow Mine that sounds like what mine usually are mine's 90s Thursday
00:59:10
afternoon actually is less aggressive than and the first song on it is by ghost I
00:59:16
just accurate accurate mine is Nostalgia ax approved Thursday afternoon and the first song is Rock Your Body by Justin
00:59:24
Timber I don't know about that you guys so good oh my God I love that mine is also very
00:59:32
just spot on again cozy granola Vibes Thursday afternoon o cozy granola what's your first song because maybe we have
00:59:39
the same one mine's orange juice by Noah con oh mine's beige by Yol lore I haven't started my uh Rock Lobster B52
00:59:47
uh oh my God I'm verion yet but I'll keep you updated yes please just once a day I'm going to play it to see what it
00:59:53
does to the day see what's going on yeah yeah okay so this one that I chose has a
00:59:59
lot of lore because there's two trains of thought in terms of what this nursery rhyme is talking about but it's Georgie
01:00:06
Porgy have you heard this one yep yep Georgie Porgy putting and pie kissed the girls and made them cry when the boys
01:00:13
come out to play Georgie Porgy ran away Georgie por Georgy and so unfortunately in modern day this nursery rhyme is used
01:00:23
often to taunt boys either named George or boys who are a little overweight because it's talking about him eating
01:00:30
pie and just you know just enjoying the indulgences of Life yeah what's wrong with live God
01:00:39
what is wrong with you but but then he's like non-consensually kissing girls and
01:00:43
making them cry so you're like honestly Georgie [ __ ] off Georgie you're Porgy you're Porgy all right we all we all
01:00:50
know a gey pory unfortunately have a Georgie porgy in uh growing up there was a his name
01:00:58
was should I just out him wow she went first you [ __ ] up he did this to me you [ __ ] up big time he would chase me
01:01:10
like for years and pinned me down and kiss me on the playground and he like recruited people it was reced people to
01:01:18
he recruited tackle you wow there was another kid but yeah they they uh chased me wow where were
01:01:24
the adults when we were children today that school will be shut down right that happened to me in second grade it has a
01:01:30
better ending came up and like tackled me and kiss me and I punched him in the face and so my parents got brought in to
01:01:37
to say she got they I was going to get in trouble until my dad said did he kiss her and they were like he was like did
01:01:44
she did he ask before he did that and they were like well of course not like they're you know they're in second grade
01:01:49
whatever and he was like will be boys is he all right is he going to live and they were like yep and he was like I see
01:01:55
nothing wrong here except for what he did like he was like no one my dad was literally like no one touches her
01:02:02
without her consent she has the right to do anything to defend herself meanwhile
01:02:05
I was told it means he has a crush on you and I'm like there with like I truly had Band-Aids covering my knees for
01:02:12
years of my life because the amount of times I would fall on the pavement and scratch my knees from this is
01:02:18
traumatizing see that and this is why I spent three months in trauma treatment oh yeah [ __ ] a that is such a like
01:02:26
common thing too that people still do is like oh he's mean to you cuz he has a crush on you I never
01:02:33
tell like he's mean to you because he's an [ __ ] like he's mean to you cuzz he's an [ __ ] Don't Go Near him well
01:02:40
then cuz you don't want them to grow up and seek romantic partners that Tre being treated like [ __ ] means he lik he
01:02:46
l no a different way like no he's just being a little dick yeah being an [ __ ] is not my love language not c
01:02:53
not cute yeah all right we're all on the same page yeah the Georgie Porgy hate group okay well it is believed that
01:03:06
Georgie Porgy is based off of George viler the first Duke of Buckingham and King James I of England because the two
01:03:15
are rumored to have been lovers lover lovers so this is a bit of queer history making its way into a nursery rhyme
01:03:22
obsessed King James first Met George in 1614 and he was like oh my God wao this guy is super hot and so he bought George
01:03:31
a whole new wardrobe and many other things which right like are you love bombing is
01:03:37
this a s what's happening here what's going on falling in love you know I love Pretty Woman situation was and George
01:03:46
was super into it so he also began intensely lobbying to be appointed as the Royal Cup Bearer stop which was a
01:03:52
position which which was not a euphemism are we sure that's like a Freudian slip back in the day yeah but
01:04:03
this position if he if he got it which spoiler alert he did it would allow him to speak to the king as they served
01:04:10
drinks at the Royal table and basically just give him a lot of access to the king and obviously like some alone time
01:04:16
I'm sure bearing his cup George also wait till you see this picture I added uh George also started dancing at
01:04:26
masks which were these festive parties thrown in the court and George would move his body in this really enchanting
01:04:32
way showing off his grace and his Beauty and his his physique and he would wear these belly shirts and a skirt uh which
01:04:40
was a very normal costume actually for all of the dancers of that time so I pulled a photo for you to see you're
01:04:46
going to want him George is an enigma we need a lake tree I like to know it for his outfit yes George George is Britney
01:04:55
Spears Toxic oh my gosh really 100% so obviously King James is like how can I resist this man he's so hot and he would
01:05:07
call him steeny which was a nickname named after another man who was said to have like the face of an Angel so his
01:05:16
nickname for George his cupbearer was basically talking about how gorgeous he is so obviously people
01:05:22
are like adorable so it is really nice but King James he felt like he had to speak on the situation
01:05:29
cuz there were a lot of rumors and he was like let me dispel the rumors and so he went and officially made a speech to
01:05:34
the privy court and said quote you may be sure that I love the Earl of beckingham more than anyone else and
01:05:41
more than you who are here assembled I wish to speak in my own behalf and not to have it thought to be a defect for
01:05:49
Jesus Christ did the same and therefore I cannot be blamed Christ had John I have
01:05:55
George heess he this was like a very he was def I love that he embraced this love wow I
01:06:04
just got chills a little bit I know no seriously I love that he's just like JC and John okay yeah George you guys [ __ ]
01:06:12
with Jesus why can't you f with me and George we're adding that to the jacket JC and John JC and John you being shitty
01:06:18
to me about it JC and John yes they also oh God King James and George they would
01:06:27
exchange these really romantic and like seductive sexy letters to one another obsessed letter writing right yes yes
01:06:36
please yeah but then also bring back letter writing and only write what you're okay with future people reading
01:06:42
on a podcast like hundreds of years in the future because they have the letters and we're about to expose some of it
01:06:48
let's go yes King James wrote God bless you my sweet child and wait yes in a letter to George King James wrote God
01:06:58
bless you my sweet child and wife and Grant also he had a wife and a child as you do back then everyone had a it's a
01:07:07
whole had a woman but then you know sometimes they also had a man yeah God bless you my sweet child and
01:07:14
wife and Grant that ye may ever be a comfort to your dear father and husband and then George replied with a letter
01:07:20
that said I naturally so love your person and I adore all your other parts which are more than any man oh
01:07:32
yeah than any one man had so he's like damn Mike's like d Mike's fully turned like headphones off like
01:07:45
CH oh my gosh okay and this is by far I think the sexiest line that has been written in one of their letters because
01:07:51
years later cuz they they had this love affair for over a decade years later King James wrote another letter to
01:07:57
George and he was a little bit more straightforward and to the point he said whether you loved me now better than at
01:08:04
a time which I shall never forget farum where the bed's head could not be found between the master and his
01:08:11
dog W is that not talking about like role play 100% sexy banging baby yeah damn where
01:08:20
were the body parts you couldn't even see them cuz they were freaking flying far
01:08:25
I love the way that people turned each other on and talked each other's Parts up back like there was so much more
01:08:33
effort and like yes thought put behind the words that they chose and it was way more beautiful now it's so
01:08:40
crass now it's like someone just sending a dickpick unsolicited I was in a church once but
01:08:47
like that kind of [ __ ] like I was on a family vacation that was I was in a church was
01:08:54
J and Sabrina it's getting Tor the doors to the church are always open hallelujah oh my God okay so these two
01:09:08
men King James and George they stayed really close until King James well close asn't they were dating they were fully
01:09:15
lovers they were [ __ ] yeah they were [ __ ] until until he died King James did pass away in 1625 and George was
01:09:24
also said to have seduced some women in his time too so he had partners of his own outside of King James it is thought
01:09:31
um but in terms of the nursery rhyme to go back to Georgie porg's nursery rhyme it was Georgie Porgy pting and Pie Kiss
01:09:38
the Girls made them cry when the boys come out to play Georgie Porgy ran away so it's thought that perhaps this could
01:09:44
be in reference to George spending some time outside of his relationship with King James kissing women who potentially
01:09:50
were married and then those men coming an to have a duel and to confront George he's running away like bye he's running
01:09:58
away and he's being protected by his lover King James and he has like no intention of technically being with
01:10:05
these women probably so it's like he he's in love with James right totally so it's like Kiss the Girls make them cry
01:10:12
cuz you're leaving them like you really don't have kissing and running it's it's
01:10:16
a kiss and run and King James did protect George a lot he actually dissolved Parliament twice to keep
01:10:23
George from being impeached wow and then after King James passed away George had
01:10:28
very little protection left and eventually was assassinated by political Rivals wow yeah what a [ __ ] story I
01:10:35
know damn why is there not a movie about this when the whole way that you were picturing or are talking about it I was
01:10:43
picturing it in my head like a movie oh my God it really does feel like it call me by your name where the peaches but
01:10:49
like he definitely has gout so it's a little less hot slightly less hard yeah if you get past the scabies but they
01:10:57
could make it sexy like the mar movie between the gout and the like no hygiene whatsoever package so it's okay there
01:11:09
should be a theater package though where similar to when you go to like Disneyland and Universal and those
01:11:13
certain rides that will like spray a scent at you there should be not that I would ever want to experience this but
01:11:19
there should be some scent scented movies yeah yeah absolutely they should it's like the naked scene and they're
01:11:27
like getting all seduced and just musty like who makes those scents and is like I could put this this and this together
01:11:33
and it will smell like stinky feet you know what I mean good question the jelly be right now because I feel like my nose
01:11:40
is oriented pregnant women pregnant women do it but how there's got to be like throw up buckets right like oh yeah
01:11:48
100% or like the jelly beans like the Harry Potter ones that taste like ear and stuff you're like but how who knows
01:11:56
like on they are that that also brings up so many questions like who you know how artificial vanilla is apparently
01:12:03
made from beaver butt goo who who who decided let me just taste this excretion from a beaver's bum wow this tastes like
01:12:12
vanilla this is really upsetting who made that first move good questions who made that step and who decided to put
01:12:20
horse Hooves in Skittles yeah and who killed the bordons exactly these are the questions
01:12:27
question these are the questions on our new show back of the jacket now I'm back to
01:12:36
our sitcom that we're creating and our sitcom for anyone that doesn't know is Sabrina and I acting out
01:12:44
her life with a two-person laugh track that is just ash and Elena yeah just like the old man in The Muppets in a
01:12:52
balcony somewhere will be yeah boo the first episode can be the uh dickpic in the church it honestly
01:13:02
honestly we should talk later okay yeah let's figure this out we're gonna get George would be into it so would King
01:13:07
James there you go but going back to this nursery rhyme for just a moment uh there is some debate over what or who
01:13:14
this nursery rhyme references so a lot of people believe that it's the story of the Duke George and King James I but
01:13:23
people also said that the line when the boys come out to play was actually added
01:13:27
later and there were no written theories about this nursery rhyme being about King James and George until Iona and
01:13:35
Peter Opie who are folklorists who use modern techniques to understand children's literature and nursery rhymes
01:13:41
they theorized that this was in reference to George and James's Affair so they were the first people to put
01:13:47
like in print and many many centuries decades later that it was about these two but for a long time people
01:13:54
speculated that it was actually about King George ivth who was a larger man who had a lot of sex had a lot of
01:14:01
different women had a lot of different children with those different women he hated his wives and would make them cry
01:14:07
and he loved to fight bare knuckled in these illegal fighting rings so he would fight them and then maybe run away for
01:14:15
his life yeah [ __ ] gu does make sense people like couldn't run away from him because he's the king they have to let
01:14:21
him win you know you're right mhm so that one does make sense but I prefer George and James's love story I like
01:14:28
that way more romantic I love that one yeah so some nursery rhymes have lovely are beautiful yeah cuz we're going with
01:14:37
that it's Canon now but it's Jor yeah that's it okay I can't pick between the two that I'm going to do so I'm going to
01:14:45
do abbreviated for both of them love that okay because Ring Around the Rosie ah a pocket full of posies as did you
01:14:54
say ashes ashes or a tissue a tissue so I the website I found said a tissue a tissue We All Fall Down The
01:15:03
King has sent his daughter to fetch a pale of water a tissue a tissue We All Fall Down the Robin on the steeple is
01:15:10
singing to the people a tissue a tissue We All Fall Down or ashes ashes The Wedding Bells Are Ringing the boys and
01:15:16
girls are singing a tissue a tissue We All Fall Down yeah I never heard a tissue a tissue kind of like it better I
01:15:24
like ashes better I like ashes too and I I think we all know ashes it's easier to say is well because
01:15:32
also over time I think a lot of people adopted this nursery rhyme and like changed it based on whatever was going
01:15:39
on in that Society but as of recently there's been a rumor that this is all about the Great Plague MH and that the
01:15:47
rose ring around Rosies is about like the rashes that people would get that that the pocket full of posies is what
01:15:55
doctors and medical people would use to cover up the stench yep and then Ash's ashes was to indicate the burning and
01:16:02
cremating of all those who died but it isn't true you guys oh I never knew that because cremating was not allowed during
01:16:10
this time also the first mention of Ring Around Rosie doesn't come around until 700 or so years afterwards W yeah
01:16:18
interesting so then like there's just a whole bunch of versions of what could be
01:16:23
but I really like this one what if it's actually a game kind of like spin the bottle because in the 19th century there
01:16:32
was a Protestant dancing ban in both America and England like foot loose like Foot Loose exactly and so kids would
01:16:40
have these like play parties where they would sing and dance and kind of be like
01:16:43
f you um and F and they would sing they would Gather in a circle holding hands singing Ring Around the Rosie and and
01:16:53
apparently they make it a game where when you do We All Fall Down whoever was the last person to fall down had to out
01:17:01
who they crushed on in the circle this is so fun we've been playing wrong this is better right isn't this like a fun
01:17:08
twist that we do yeah I like this um and they would either have to profess their
01:17:13
love for someone in the circle or kiss or hug the person scandalous scandalos I'm thinking about all the people who
01:17:19
would like not fall down so they could kiss their fall down oh yeah I love that yeah so that's I've never heard of that
01:17:27
never heard that I either I was so surprised it's always listed as a nursery rhyme that's associated with
01:17:33
dark history it always there no evidence there's literally no evidence that actually points to it being from the
01:17:41
plague at all wow and now that you said like all those things like weren't they didn't come about until like years and
01:17:47
years later that's so crazy yeah that's nuts okay so then the last one I was going to do is London Bridge is falling
01:17:54
down and London Bridge is falling down falling down falling down London brid falling down my fair lady I couldn't
01:18:04
remember the last line you got it I started it okays I feel like you and I were staring
01:18:11
into each other's eyes too as we were doing it like someone's going to say it I also wonder if the the microphone I'm
01:18:18
sure didn't pick it up but we were all rocking so aggressively to the right and left
01:18:25
um and then like yeah when you were a kid what you would hold hands with someone M and then try to trap them MH
01:18:32
this is how I got my scar on my the bottom of my lip no way I was I was underneath my cousins and they were
01:18:38
trying to trap me and I think I like tried to run out really quickly and I slid into the corner of um a like a wall
01:18:45
oh my God jez you were like I am not being trapped and I didn't get caught and that's all that matters that's all
01:18:51
that matters dark meaning blood and Bridge I won I won blood is gushing down my face but
01:19:00
basically people believe that this is because it took the London Bridge has been built rebuilt attacked caught
01:19:08
fire again Fallen apart so many times that it's kind of a reference to that um and people say that there are so many
01:19:18
pieces of the bridge now in the river below just because ooh like pieces would fall apart like fall off that's so scary
01:19:26
so there was a medeval bridge that was the London Bridge and then it was rebuilt and replaced in
01:19:32
1176 damn which took years to complete and it was during this building of the bridge that a really dark and morbid
01:19:44
TM yeah uh belief it's a supersti it's not real I guess but the idea is that it was a Superstition that the bridge would
01:19:52
not stand unless they made a sacrifice to like the gods and stuff and so they would bury people
01:20:02
alive in the bridge and like brick them in as it was being rebuilt so there is this form of torture from the Medieval
01:20:14
Times called urement which is when a person is encased into a room with no opening or exit and left there to die so
01:20:21
the lyrics that are the key and lock her up seem to point to this and there's a belief that they would trap people in
01:20:28
these Stones there were some articles that say children I I just feel like it's one of those examples of making
01:20:33
things more dramatic and let's make it even worse yeah um and it was basically a sacrifice to the Gods in order to keep
01:20:39
the bridge standing because this bridge has been taken down and actually I think
01:20:44
the there so there's the medieval London Bridge there's the old London Bridge there's the new old London Bridge and
01:20:51
then there's the current London Bridge damn the new old London Bridge was actually like moved Brick by Brick to
01:20:56
Lake havu Arizona why what yeah what did Arizona do to American millionaire billion must
01:21:05
billionaire who was like I want that bridge Arizona was just like can I have it they don't already have enough weird
01:21:12
stuff seriously the London Bridge but so basically you would find some evidence of people having been
01:21:22
brick in and they never have okay here's the best part about this nursery rhyme and it's very
01:21:32
musical so the Vikings they took on these conquests and they would attack they would murder they would take over
01:21:40
cities so this belief is that they were heading towards London in 1014 they were
01:21:47
setting off on their ships and they were getting towards the London Bridge this part I took some creative Liberties
01:21:56
um a man on the ship starts humming a tune under his breath he sees the bridge up in the distance I like it London
01:22:03
Bridge is falling down it's very very quiet and then suddenly next thing he knows others are joining in and by the
01:22:11
time they reached the bridge it was a choir of boisterous deep baritone voices echoing off the waters all rowing to it
01:22:18
rowing and harmonizing to the be their War Musical number and they tried to attack the
01:22:26
London Bridge I am obsessed with that one yeah that's my favorite that is the one the Vikings love musicals they do
01:22:33
they love a choreograph number they're brutal and violent they will murder everyone but but damn they love they
01:22:42
will they will put on a show before they do it yeah they will good for them their
01:22:45
braids just billowing in the wind so those were our weird nursery rhymes and a little bit of information
01:22:53
on Lizzie bordon but we're definitely going to explore more because not only is Elena a ripperologist she is now a
01:22:58
lizology and I'm I'm joining on this one yeah bordon olist let's go let's become
01:23:03
bordon lists together absolutely will be your laugh track for that episod gasp track yeah say more gasping
01:23:14
laughing my gosh oh it's happening all right so we're wrapping up this episode but remember you should go over to the
01:23:19
two girls one ghost feed and listen to that episode where we're going go talk about all of the scary [ __ ] in depth
01:23:26
that we experienced in the house we're going to have audio in there from it video like get ready kind of [ __ ] ready
01:23:33
so with that being said we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it we but
01:23:38
that's so that you don't go listen to two girls when goost feed to uh hear all that
01:23:44
by hear all that by that [Music] good [Music]