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hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elina and this is [Music] morbid this is morbid and it's Pat two
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of a tup oh my God and it's kind of morbid in the morning it is that's why you might you might hear sleep in our
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voices I know honestly probably not I woke up with a [ __ ] jolt this morning did you yeah I just well cuz I woke up
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yeah you were like yeah I was late what else is new but I made a good ass coffee she did
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she made a great ass coffee I wasn't sure if it was good I thought my beans OV extracted but no I think they
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extracted the correct amount I think they might have and then we had like fun girl talk this morning we did we lifted
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each other up we did it was women supporting women in the office we were like you're a badass [ __ ] tell
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yourself that every day yeah and and you know what you guys out there you're all
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bad ass [ __ ] and you should tell yourselves that every day yeah and don't compare yourself to anybody else no
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don't because you can do that until the end of time and you'll always find someone that you're like well I didn't
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do this and that person did that yeah okay do you did this so are you proud of your accomplishments that's the only
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thing that matters you like you you do and if you don't like you I'm sorry about that and you got to get to a place
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where you do like you first before you can do anything else and this is not an ad no it's really not it's just it's
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just it's just the Vibes of 2025 especially with all the Mayhem we surrounding us with [ __ ] Elon Musk
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deciding that he's an elected official like go [ __ ] yourself um so that with those vibes you have to get to a place
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where you like yourself if not for any other reason if not for any other reason but because we got to take care of that
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business truly but yeah so yeah it's just important and I want everybody to feel that way um I'm not really I think
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we've like this is the year of like social media just kind of being crumbling not the thing not not the vibe
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you know what I was listening I'm not going to get like everything completely correct because my memory is just a vast
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land but a vast land of nothing but I was listening to Alisa Kelly's podcast her horescope podcast is so [ __ ] good
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and she was talking about it was like at the beginning of 2025 I think it might have even been before 20 2025 it was
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like here's what how I think it's going to go basically and it's I think like when from when social media started
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we've done like a full circle basically like a full rotation oh absolutely so it's almost being flipped on its head
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now so there's going to be these like massive shifts in social media which could be them crumbling which it does
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kind of feel like and I'm not mad about it like I have been off of Instagram for
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probably 2 3 weeks now I am like my insides feel better yeah genuinely that's the thing like there was no there
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was no like inciting incident no that that really did this like really like truly there was no inciting incident
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like there's always like there's always [ __ ] in the comments everywhere like in every comment section it wasn't
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even that it was honestly just like for honestly mind citing incident was like my account following somebody that I
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didn't follow which I think we all know who that is yes that happened to mind too don't support that orange man but I
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was like I'm not going to stick around for this when like my account's being manipulated and like just see you know I
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follow like a lot of like uh news outlets and that kind of thing and I think it's good to have information but
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I think there we are living in an age where there's too much [ __ ] information there's too much
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misinformation and if you have any kind of anxiety at all it will eat alive it will and it's like and please know that
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like I know it's hard and it's a very hard line and we're not going to go too far into the story we're going to get
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into the the case but sometimes it feels good just like well you guys are like our our broes so we want to talk to you
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about it it's important and we care about your mental health because you guys are a [ __ ] rat ass community of
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of awesome [ __ ] and we want you to be okay so but it's a it's a it's a hard line to
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straddle to be informed but not be bombarded yes there yes that is the perfect way to say fine line and
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it is I don't know if I have fully comprehended that line yet it's hard it's very hard because of course you
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want to be informed but you don't want to be over informed to the point where you're you can't think of anything else
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or appreciate any kind of happiness in your own life well there's never been a day and age where you have a [ __ ]
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thing in your hand 247 that you can constantly be connected and constantly know what's going on like
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that is not how we're meant to live it is pretty [ __ ] up when you think about it and the the internet and like social
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media can be this beautiful place where amazing people can connect I do miss connecting to you guys that's the thing
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like there's where I'm like I'm like I love connecting to people but then it's like but then it's also in you know the
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human species is of is an onion of that that has some rotten layers to it and it's like and no matter what it's an
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evil onion with a lot of rot layers but there's some great layers some flavorful
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layers that will it'll make your soup delicious you know what it is there's shallots and there's onions exactly
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there you go I prefer shallots I love a shallot yeah Jean shallot Jean shallot I
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love sh I love a legum oh yeah speaking of that let's take a let's take a quick little little Veer are we um nothing's
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better than [ __ ] Pearl couscous with shallots and veggie broth yes and some herbs on it I like the idea
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of that but I want chicken broth the veggie broth gives it some kind of one thing about me some kind of something I
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[ __ ] hate veggie broth really when I tried my hand at vegetarianism is that's what it's called
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vegetarianism I I went like hard and fast with the veggie broth and I think now did it yeah it's it's not for me so
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I always do CH I always do um I always do bone broth there you go all right well there's there's our little tip yeah
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for for a new you yeah Pearl couscous though you know Drew doesn't like the pearled couscous he likes the regular
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couscous I like both so I made the Pearl couscous and he's like what's this one I'm like it's just bigger a bigger
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version bigger just pearls he's like I don't like it drew you're strange Drew I love that bands well you know what we're
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um we're all over the place we're everywhere and we have some really awesome things coming up we can't talk
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to you about yet but but [ __ ] you're going to know when they hit I feel like after they're hitting soon I feel like
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after this case there's probably only like one or two episodes before we can before it's like before it hits you in
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the face before it's going to smack you in the face so don't worry it's you're not going to be waiting months for this
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or no we wouldn't tease like and and we feel annoying but like we genuinely just
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can't but we're so [ __ ] excited because two of these things are happening like in real time for us next
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week mhm and then they'll be coming out to you in a like a couple weeks after that 38 days later you know someday
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we'll know you know how it goes but we know that like you know and we know that could be annoying to be like something's
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happening but I it's coming and you're going to love it and my God I'm so excited about it it's so exciting
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because also like the there's it's such a variety with these two things it's such a variety if it's going to fill
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your cup like in so many different ways yeah in different ways and The Vibes are
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going to be [ __ ] Immaculate chef's kiss [ __ ] Immaculate so just keep an eye out for that I promise you you'll
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know it's going to literally punch you in the jaw when it happens so we'll say it in the intro too like to you know
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whatever we end up talking about I mean you're going to know you just by the titles of yck baby ick yck all right
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well we chatted so we chatted this was a good chat guys remember the moral of the
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story just like make sure you like yourself it's really hard I get that took me long time took me past the age of 30 to
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really get to the place that's what everybody says it was really past 30 that I got to the place where I was like
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no [ __ ] I I'm me and I like me and I'm and that's okay I'm nearing it and I hope you are too I hope you are too
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listening if you need help we'll just keep telling you to do it don't worry exactly just think of think of me
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patting you on the back and being like you're [ __ ] great [ __ ] sometimes she genuinely actually does that to me it's
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great it's great so oh I guess we have to keep talking about this horrific case which is very fascinating and one that
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needs to be talked about because it is technically still unsolved uh we're talking about I know
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we're talking about the black doia case the murder of Elizabeth Short uh one thing I find interesting with this case
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uh is that the general consensus of the whole thing was like she was she was going out to Hollywood to become a star
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and blah blah blah and that was her only like but in reality it's like yeah she was you know she wanted to be an actor
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all that good but people make it seem like she was that's it and that was all that was and blah it's like no she
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literally was just looking for a new start yeah like she was genuinely looking to just start a new and
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obviously she had dreams of like you know being an actress and all that and she was doing extra work and all that
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modeling yeah but I think like that emphasis gets put too much on that not enough on like she was really going
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through a lot of [ __ ] yeah and she really just was looking for a place where she felt like she belonged I think
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that happens a lot with these kind of stories like the kind of stories where like a young girl goes out to Hollywood
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and she wants to be an actress but it's like that's never the only thing going on in somebody's life and in fact
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usually when a young girl is escaping to California to Hollywood it's for a whole
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bunch of other reasons yeah there's a myriad of reasons that are coming with it and on top of it she needed that
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weather was her that climate was her ideal climate because of her lungs so it's like there was many layers to this
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and I just think they don't get it doesn't get talked about enough when it like gets brought up I agre I see what
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you mean it just hits on like the she wanted to be a star and it's like yeah she did it's like that's an overarching
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she wanted to breathe too like that was part of it was pretty sick to have full lung
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capacity it was it was pretty awesome so when we last talked about this case we were talking about you know several of
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the suspects that seemed like good suspects and then would kind of fall apart at the seams Robert Manley was
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like a really big suspect and he was the one he was the redhaired man noou that was you
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know testing whether he loved his wife yeah that whole thing yeah uh remember that guy uh he he looked like a good
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suspect but he was also very forthcoming with the information he never really he
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never pushed away the investigators or tried to his his story stayed consistent right he he took a polygraph but fell
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asleep you know you know as one does you know sleep he's going to sleep I don't know but he was released from custody
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okay so cuz because we did also find out that two people who said they saw him with her and one said like literally off
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well they literally were like yeah like she said her name was this and then it ended up not being that at all so fake
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at this point they were looking only into her love life as a source of where this could be coming from this killer
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and they were now realizing you know what the boyfriend angle might not be a good anle maybe we got to start like
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widening our net here so with their best lead the redhaired man uh having turned
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out to be a dead end investigators on one of the nation's now most closely watched news stories found themselves in
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a bad place which is desperate that's not where we want to find our investigators on a case like
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this no because that's when things get messy yeah um yeah so detective Harry Hansen told reporters on January 23rd
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we're right back where we started which is also not a good place to be nearly 200 officers fanned out across the city
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looking for new Clues many following up on a lot of false confessions that were happening as well that was like a wave
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it's such a weird yeah thing the amount of men that came forward to be like me I
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did it it's like I feel like back then too yeah I'm like were you all just bored like what is going on here yeah
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what is the pathology there that makes somebody do that the pipeline from boredom to false confession yeah like
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what is that but they would be you know following up on these many false confessions just you know wasting their
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time and resources but they had to they don't know which one is false and which isn't or they were conducting house-to
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house searches in hopes of finding any new Witnesses so they really were going hard yeah uh meanwhile the coroner's
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inquest confirmed the details of the murder but offered really little else in a way of answers especially when it came
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to the Gap in time between her disappearance on January 9th and her murder right that was the hard
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thing to pinpoint investigators finally caught a lucky break on January 25th when a postal clerk spotted a package
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addressed simply to Los Angeles newspapers and he looked at it and he said huh that's weird that's weird
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that's suspicious so he immediately turned it over to the police and inside detectives found Elizabeth's birth
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certificate what her address book a baggage check ticket and other personal papers that
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belonged to her yeah of course as well as a note from the sender and in the note was in letters cut from magazines
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and newspapers like the classic Ransom note oh I hate that and the letter wrote here is Dalia's belongings letter to
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follow oh that's [ __ ] haunting yeah like that and they were really her her things so this was absolutely from the
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yeah now during his interview with detectives Robert Manley claimed to have seen Elizabeth's address book in her
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purse when he dropped her at the builtmore so that was a big thing that's huge now we we can at least follow that
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and he'd seen the baggage check ticket from the Greyhound station so given that detectives concluded that the sender of
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the package must have seen Elizabeth after she left the builtmore and could possibly be her killer mhm one detective
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told reporters we have so many leads we don't know which to choose first at this
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point which is a good place to be yeah but also a scary place to be it's a good place but like a a hairy place a hairy
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place exactly investigators theorized that the killer sensing the case was going cold had done this sent the
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materials to the press to keep his to update unquote work on the front page yeah he saw that things were cooling off
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and they weren't getting anywhere and he said why don't I help you out yeah which
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is so scary and very BTK very BTK like what if I send you a floppy disc BTK before
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BTK this was he probably looked at this and was like there it is and I do wonder
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if he looked at this and said well he never got caught yeah but he didn't put into any kind of thought that like
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technology had had grown that was a big part of it so while several detectives started running down the names in her
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address book other officers started combing area dumps looking for Elizabeth's missing clothes and purse
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the day before the package was received someone reported having seen a bag matching the description of her purse in
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a trash can on khaw Boulevard not far from a lot where the body was actually discovered on January 26th officers
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finally located the bag at the trash dump on East 26th Street which is crazy they found the bag um alongside one of
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the shoes Elizabeth had been wearing on the night she disappeared oh wow both were positively identified by Robert
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Manley as belonging to Elizabeth that when you genuinely think of like the work that had to have gone in into that
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think of how big like La is a pretty big place look at any dump yeah tell me how
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hard that would be to find one bag just piles and piles of random [ __ ] yeah like
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you that is that really is like that's detective detective work right there which not as detective work I would not
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want to have to do that's definitely not it um the bag was later identified by the cafe owner on crenchaw Boulevard who
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initially reported it to police okay so the cafe owner was like yeah that's the bag I saw
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now although there was still a possibility that the killer had followed Elizabeth to Los Angeles from San Diego
00:17:05
where she had been before yep the receipt of the package and the discovery of the purse strongly indicated that the
00:17:10
killer was local okay because he was sending it from a local place he's still around like he's around um detective
00:17:20
Harry Fremont said I'm still convinced the Killer is still in town and I'm almost certain it is who has mailed us
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Elizabeth Short's belongings which I think is pretty safe to say I'm like yeah I'd say so having run down all the
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names in the address book now investigators ruled out all the men in the book which is wild yeah and began
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hop uh hoping the sender would follow another letter just to kind of help them out at this
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point was to follow I was going to say the note did indicate that another one would come and at this point they're
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like we kind of need the other one to come unfortunately the news of the package prompted another flood of new
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Anonymous correspondents most of which were h bookes because again people are going to people yeah rotten evil onions
00:18:03
it's not great one letter read quote a certain girl is going to get same as es got if she squeals on
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us okay get it together people get it to [ __ ] together get a life and come on another letter said quote e short got it
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Carol Marshall is next okay okay other notes in the letters suggested the killer was going
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to give themselves up one of them said quote Dalia killer cracking wants terms that was a postcard from Pasadena [ __ ]
00:18:40
off all of them were just [ __ ] yeah just people with absolutely no [ __ ] lives but among all of these there was
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one postcard written in plain block letters that caught investigators attention among all of them okay it said
00:18:57
here it is unlike it said turning in Wednesday January 29th 10: a.m. had my fun at police Black doia Avenger hm
00:19:07
unlike the other very obviously false claims the postcard from the Black doia Avenger seemed as though it could have
00:19:15
come from the killer because not only did it lack the grandiosity of the other ones the the the silliness and
00:19:22
Ridiculousness of the other ones the investigators thought the phrase here it is was referenced ing the Killer's
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earlier claim that a letter was going to fall a package which makes sense and the
00:19:32
other ones didn't say that the other ones didn't cuz they didn't know that's what it said yep but this one says here
00:19:37
it is here it is and it was also just like had fun [ __ ] with you bye but like bye it wasn't really saying like
00:19:43
this person's next or like I'm going to turn myself in soon or yeah like something really stupid yeah just as the
00:19:48
letter indicated on Wednesday January 29th a man came forward to LAPD and confessed that he had killed Elizabeth
00:19:58
Short it was 33-year-old Daniel Vorhees hilarious last name yes truly uh told detectives that he had met
00:20:06
Elizabeth Short two weeks earlier in downtown Los Angeles and quote took her for a ride on a Wilshire Boulevard bus
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and he stopped short of providing any other details about the murder itself wait so he just he took her for a bus
00:20:19
ride is that what told he said he took her for a ride on the bus is that the thing people did who knows imagine a
00:20:25
man's asking you being like do you want to go on a Peter Pan with do you want to
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go on a bus with me what do you think of Greyhound yeah I guess back then it was
00:20:32
like you want to take a ride on the bus that's adorable in a way yeah not in this scenario not with Mr Vorhees but
00:20:39
according to Mr Vorhees the two first met in 1941 and he'd taken her on several dates before they lost touch but
00:20:47
when asked for more details about that meeting he again refused to say anything else uh but nevertheless Vorhees
00:20:53
insisted quote I'm sick I did Kill Beth short okay and he was willing to sign any documents confessing to it so Daniel
00:21:02
Vorhees was booked into the county jail that evening on obviously suspicion of murder uh there was going to be a
00:21:08
polygraph exam planned for the following day because they wanted him to they wanted to wait to have him recover from
00:21:14
his quote bewildered and befuddled State he was at the time of his arrest okay which tells you a little bit about what
00:21:22
you need to know about like the state he was in and wildered and befuddled I don't know about this I don't know if I
00:21:30
want to believe a confession from somebody bewildered or befug exactly and while this may have seen at the time it
00:21:36
did seem at the time a major break in the case there were several things about his confession that made detectives
00:21:44
unfortunately a little skeptical they didn't want to be but they were yeah uh in addition to his refusal to provide
00:21:50
virtually any details about the murder or how he'd come to no short at all investigators also described his story
00:21:58
is quote generally incoherent yeah we're we're teetering off the edge here folks
00:22:04
and it was also full of contradictions um also when they contacted police in Phoenix LAPD
00:22:11
detectives learned that Vorhees had a long record of petty offenses and at the time of his arrest he was not really
00:22:18
living anywhere and appeared very confused apparently he was from Phoenix that's s it sounds like he was very
00:22:24
mentally ill it sounds like he was going through it for sure uh the next day Vorhees changed his story telling
00:22:31
detectives he quote might have killed short but but he couldn't lead police to the scene of the murder okay didn't know
00:22:38
where that was Vorhees was held for a few more days while police looked further into his story but eventually it
00:22:44
became very clear that this was a completely [ __ ] false confession and he was let go cuz this isn't the kind of
00:22:50
thing again I think we touched on it in the first part like somebody was like you know um I forget what the I think it
00:22:56
was a newspaper article said something and it was like the killer snapped and like they were in a crazy frame of mind
00:23:01
it's like this isn't the kind of murder that you would just like Snap and commit
00:23:05
and be like oh I don't have any recollection of what happened it's like like this was hours and hours hours long
00:23:10
like she was tortured she was bisected she fought you off she was her of blood for hours that takes a while right it's
00:23:19
like there's at some point you would have come to and remember had some recollection of part of it yeah you
00:23:24
don't commit that like what whatever that uh bisection thing was called and in a in a state of mind where you're not
00:23:30
going to remember doing it exactly exactly now like their theory about a spurned lover you know an ex of some
00:23:37
sort detectives had expressed a great deal of confidence that the letters from the Black doia Avenger would lead them
00:23:43
to Elizabeth shortz killer but after Daniel ves's confession turned out to be false and the communication with the
00:23:50
Avengers stopped they once again found themselves at a dead end yeah after two weeks of intense investigation involving
00:23:57
hundreds of lap PD Officers they had comb through all the leads and clues they had and they had yet to find the
00:24:03
murder weapon uh they didn't find the crime scene they didn't find a single suspect that was even remotely viable at
00:24:10
this point um the LA Times declared quote it appeared almost certain The elusive killer was a stranger to miss
00:24:18
short um and they wrote as even her closest Associates G have given not the slightest inkling to police of the
00:24:25
identity of the murderer Chief of Police donaho agreed telling reporters that most likely quote the black doia Nemesis
00:24:33
was a pickup whom she did not previously know in the earlier days of February tips continued to come into the LAPD and
00:24:42
each one they ran down they didn't ignore any of them they didn't just assume they were stupid they ran down
00:24:47
and pursued all of them among them was a woman in Long Beach who claimed to have
00:24:52
heard quote unearthly screams coming from a quote long expensive on the night Elizabeth
00:24:59
disappeared uhhuh did you call call anyone when that was going on this informant told police she'd been waiting
00:25:07
at a bus stop that evening when she saw a man quote holding a woman down in the rear seat of the car with a man in a
00:25:14
woman on the front seat and she didn't call why are you waiting until now to say anything then
00:25:22
there was a tip from Elizabeth's friends where they were just trying to like think of anything they were trying to
00:25:27
think of anything that could help so they said she had recently quote plugged cavities in her teeth with wax from
00:25:33
candies which sent investigators back to potential witnesses to ask whether they'd seen anyone caring for their
00:25:40
teeth in such a way wait what she would plug her the cavities in her teeth with wax candies
00:25:47
yeah and so they were saying like did you see any did you see her buying wax candies did you see anybody cuz like who
00:25:53
knows did you see somebody like fiddling with their teeth have like with you know
00:25:57
sticking something in their teeth a bus anywhere they're literally trying literally anything cuz these are like
00:26:04
unique traits you remember that that they're like okay maybe might be able to go somewhere with that yeah like maybe
00:26:10
that's something if somebody says like Oh weird I did see a girl sitting there like sticking something in her tooth on
00:26:15
the bus or something like that that can at least help them figure something out right While most of the tips came from
00:26:20
the Los Angeles area they did receive calls and letters from other parts of the country too which very unnecessarily
00:26:27
taxed agency resources it just made it even worse in early February for example investigators received a call from
00:26:34
officials at Fort Dicks in New Jersey uh reporting that one of their soldiers Joseph Dume had disclosed to Army
00:26:42
investigators that he'd been on a date with Elizabeth Short the night she disappeared now he's in New Jersey yeah
00:26:48
according to Dee he had gone on a date with short on the evening of January 9th but quote after the date his mind went
00:26:54
blank and the next thing he remembered he was in Pennsylvania station in New York across the country from where she
00:27:01
was yeah totally Fort Dicks investigators analyzed the uniform Dume had been wearing that night and found
00:27:08
what turned out to be blood stains on one of the pockets of his pants creepy now when they began digging into his
00:27:14
background investigators learned that the 29-year-old Soldier had been married three times and on at least one occasion
00:27:22
he had been examined by a psychiatrist who recommended he be hospitalized for psychological reasons
00:27:28
also while D's claimed to have been in Los Angeles the previous month there was no record of him having traveled to
00:27:34
California recently yeah it was eventually determined that he had nothing to do with Elizabeth's murder
00:27:39
and the blood stains in his pockets could have quote come from a bloody handkerchief oh okay but by then
00:27:45
investigators had already wasted several days and precious man hours in this completely false [ __ ] lead which is
00:27:52
really [ __ ] annoying as the first week of February came to an end investigators had become so desperate
00:27:58
for any new leads and eventually returned to what the Press described as quite as quote twice cold Clues so there
00:28:04
was doubling back on things while some members of the team went back to Old suspects and Witnesses hoping to find
00:28:11
anything that could Point them in a New Direction several other detectives started following anything that even
00:28:17
resembled a lead no matter how insignificant like the cavity thing right this included a report from a a
00:28:24
young woman in Culver City who told police she'd been waiting for a bus when a man in a 1940 sedan approached her
00:28:32
Isabelle Foster said quote the man asked me if I wanted a ride I refused he then
00:28:37
took out a long butcher knife and ordered me into his car Jesus she started to panic and started to cry and
00:28:43
the man told her shut up or he would give me what he gave the black doia okay which like here's the thing I
00:28:51
don't think he's out here I could be wrong cuz he's a [ __ ] [ __ ] whoever did this so it's like whatever it would
00:28:58
be weird to me if he was just out on the street being like shut up or I'll do to
00:29:02
you like I did the black doia like I don't think he's just going to be like the black doia yeah like I don't think
00:29:07
I'm going to be out like I don't think he's going to be running around saying it to everybody out on the streets maybe
00:29:11
he's saying it to people in his life yeah for sure I could see this guy being an idiot and who we think it might be I
00:29:18
think he was talking about it with people in his life I don't think he's had a random bust stop trying to kidnap
00:29:23
somebody and being like if you don't get in my car I'm going to do the same thing
00:29:25
I did to the black doia to you well it's also like if if I do get in your car that's when you'll probably do it ex and
00:29:30
it's like now this girl's going to fight even more like you kidding that doesn't
00:29:33
make sense yeah reports like that of Daniel Vorhees Joseph D's Isabelle Foster's report of this man with the
00:29:41
butcher knife and all the others they didn't pan out and they were so common yeah they were just they kept coming in
00:29:49
from the moment the body was discovered the front pages of every major newspaper
00:29:54
in the LA area were dominated by the case of the black doia so it just kept on coming such intense public interest
00:30:01
drove equally intense press coverage and led to so many hoaxes so many false confessions tons of mistaken ident
00:30:09
identities complete lies just people inserting themselves while these stories may have been you know great to read in
00:30:15
the paper very interesting and they Honestly made the case appear very complex and very fastpaced and very like
00:30:23
you know like we're running down leads and we're doing this the truth was this whole thing was indicative of just how
00:30:30
little information detectives had to work with yep and it soon became apparent to the press and the readers of
00:30:36
these papers that the case was growing cold yeah and because every time these things came out it was like no yep and
00:30:42
we don't have anything now by the end of February investigators were literally grasping at straws at this point looking
00:30:48
for any detail or any clue that could just give a little spark to this case but they were coming up empty which is
00:30:56
crazy with how this how this woman and it kills me because they had Clues at the crime scene and they failed
00:31:05
footprint and tire tracks massive Clues so to be honest they [ __ ] themselves from the beginning it's real cool that
00:31:12
they're running down leads now you [ __ ] yourself over you had Clues which I don't I will never understand why they
00:31:17
didn't photograph that that footprint and the and the tire Treads yeah why would you not take photographs take a
00:31:24
mold of it like do whatever you can right like that's and it to let that crime scene become
00:31:30
so contaminated and congested I just yeah yeah I'm like did they come out and say like we didn't take the photograph
00:31:37
because blah blah blah no I think they just things it's the same thing as like it got lost and this is the like they
00:31:43
just don't explain it yeah a few weeks later investigators acknowledged that they had no leads and that this case was
00:31:50
cold now the story of the black doia murder had dominated the papers for weeks with stories informed very heavily
00:31:56
by people just theorizing and speculating and whatever bits of information the LAPD was willing to
00:32:02
parcel out to the public uh the latter of these included information about certain arrests and potential suspects
00:32:09
who were inevitably and very quickly ruled out but behind the scenes there were other suspects whose names weren't
00:32:16
immediately released to the press and who were considered way more seriously than the people they were releasing to
00:32:23
the Press also in the years since Elizabeth Short's death a large number number of authors and journalists
00:32:30
they've published books and articles naming many suspects ranging from famous people like Orson Wells and Woody
00:32:37
Guthrie and even notorious gangster Bugsy seagull lots of people have been fingered for this the suspect list
00:32:45
contained more than 20 names including many doctors and a few women huh which I don't know if I just the pathology of
00:32:53
this one I don't see it but I could obviously be wrong yeah um well some of these theories have been very debunked
00:32:59
over the years like very easily uh there remains a small list of names that many
00:33:04
believe contains the Killer's identity in there this girl I believe it I definitely think so so this one is
00:33:13
interesting so in John Gilmore's 1994 book severed the true story of the black doia murder the author strongly suspects
00:33:23
Jack Anderson Wilson AKA Arnold Smith as the killer based largely on circumstantial evidence which is
00:33:31
evidence yeah no matter what no matter what that's really all we got at this point and he bases it on an interview he
00:33:37
conducted with Wilson before his death in the interview Wilson claimed to have been driven to kill by some Supernatural
00:33:44
Force MH um he told Gilmore he had to do that when the spirit overtook himh Wilson went on to hint at his
00:33:53
participation in the murder saying quote you understand the trouble I could get into because of what did if he could
00:33:59
somehow make it seem like that he didn't do it you know what I mean it's like we're talking about litigation and that
00:34:04
sort of thing everyone is entitled to go nuts what everyone is entitled to go nuts no this is like that investigator
00:34:16
being like you know she probably teased him and he went berserk like and again babes we're not entitled to that like I
00:34:21
don't it separates us from the animals you need to like what are you talking about we're not entitled to l and kill
00:34:28
someone this isn't like the spirit overtook me and I became frenzied this is not that this is not a frenzy Mur
00:34:34
that's the thing this is not a disorganized frenzied passionate moment of crazy anger moment
00:34:43
meticulous murder this is hours and hours and I think it was controlled torture and I think it was
00:34:52
planned yes it's like she are we forgetting that the blood was drained from her body everyone that requires a
00:35:02
lot and the bsection you're not the bsection is so clean you're not going to convince me that somebody who was
00:35:08
overtaken by a spirit and like lost their mind was like yeah I just figured out how to bicep her I just figured it
00:35:13
out I'm I will not encourage you to look at the crime scene photos cuz I'll never
00:35:18
encourage you to do that no and these have been shared so many times that unfortunately they're everywhere if
00:35:23
you're familiar with this Cas you are familiar with them I looked at them because I we were going into this case
00:35:30
it is a remarkably clean bisection yeah the this is not like I'm sorry to get graphic here but you're here it is not
00:35:40
like a tearing through somebody kind of thing like this is not a ragged cut it's
00:35:46
a cut that is so [ __ ] clean it's clinical is what it is right that is a clinical cut if I ever saw one you will
00:35:56
never convince me that this person is not a doctor or a surgeon exactly it's the same thing as Jack the Ripper you're
00:36:01
just not going to convince me I agree it's just the way it is for it and we will get into that don't worry yeah uh
00:36:07
in the years since the publication of that book severed the true story of the black doia murder severed has come under
00:36:14
a lot of scrutiny for a lot of inaccuracies mistakes you know a lot of that stuff among other things um the
00:36:21
author Gilmore paid Wilson for the interview okay and which does happen for sure but in these Cas is that that makes
00:36:29
your eyebrow raise a little and the transcript indicates the conversation occurred over the course of many rounds
00:36:35
of drinks oh well that's which can taint things not great uh it has also been pointed out that years after severed was
00:36:42
released Gilmore had Advanced an entirely different theory about the killing so it kind of taints this
00:36:48
original one because you're like right um in a 1982 interview with the Los Angeles Herald examiner Gilmore
00:36:55
described a suspect he refers to only as Mr Jones uh according to Gilmore Mr Jones had confessed the murder to one of
00:37:02
Gilmore's contacts okay now in this version of events Gilmore claims that Mr Jones picked short up at the builtmore
00:37:10
and quote she and Jones traveled from an apartment in Hollywood to the Roosevelt
00:37:14
Hotel where he picked up a key to the house at 33rd in Trinity Jones was angered by Elizabeth Short's behavior
00:37:21
and her refusal to give in to his advances the two quarreled about a phone call she wanted to make and when she she
00:37:27
insisted on leaving the the wooden house and incensed Jones beat her raped her and then losing all control nope
00:37:35
tortured her and ultimately killed her no in his frenzy to cut the body up for disposal purposes nope that's not why
00:37:44
she was cut no that was not for disposal purposes she was posed she was you are trying to dispose of a body
00:37:51
you cut off the limbs you I know this sounds horrible but if you're doing it for disposal purposes
00:37:58
you are putting it into bags so it isn't found or that it is found in several different places you are not putting her
00:38:04
next to a sidewalk where she is found posed and honestly if it was for if it was simply only 100% for disposal
00:38:11
purposes this is awful but you would assume she would be in more pieces exactly she her limbs would be easier
00:38:17
disposal you don't leave limbs on if you're trying to dispose of a body easily and again this is a horrible
00:38:22
discussion to have but it's just this doesn't make sense yeah like that you can't tell me this was for disposal
00:38:28
purposes no and then this was for it was for shock Factor she was posed like she
00:38:33
was getting a photo taken right that's not what that was don't tell me that was disposal if it was she would be in bags
00:38:39
y she would not be laid out on the grass no like come on um so it says Jones cut
00:38:45
the body in half then panicked at the prospect of Discovery and he wrapped each part of Elizabeth's short there
00:38:52
there was two two in curtains from the house nope there was cement bags wrapped the entire bundle in an oil skin
00:39:01
tablecloth and loaded the body in his car no and at what point did he decide to drain her of all her blood exactly
00:39:08
you didn't mention that yeah we're we're we're always skipping that one in these
00:39:11
confessions where where'd you do that where did you do that how long did it take how'd you know how to do it yeah
00:39:17
like come on Gilmore claimed to have that tracked Mr Jones down in 1978 and found him living in Indianapolis the
00:39:26
author went to see the man however and when he arrived he just decided not to talk to him okay Gilmore said quote I
00:39:33
just looked at him now I'm sorry I didn't talk to him about Elizabeth short because I didn't know at the time that
00:39:38
he had killed her I didn't have that part of the story I didn't know there was a situation between my contact and
00:39:43
Jones that there was always an antagonism what so it just gets a little messy this this whole pretty messy and
00:39:52
it's a little weird yeah so there's that don't know about any of those were big suspects that people talk about for a
00:39:57
little while but then in 1991 and this one's there's a big there's a big issue with this one to me okay in 1991 another
00:40:07
suspect was put forward when 54-year-old Westminster resident Janice Nolton went
00:40:11
to the Press claiming her father George Nolton was shorts killer okay Janice had
00:40:17
been undergoing psychiatric treatment at the time and claimed she had uncovered repress memories of witnessing her
00:40:23
father kill Elizabeth in their garage okay now that was in January AR 1947 that she claimed it happen she claimed
00:40:30
that her father who died in a car accident in 1962 had been dating Elizabeth in 1947 and that short had
00:40:37
been staying quote in a makeshift sleeping room in their garage where she had a miscarriage for me already I have like a
00:40:47
ding-ding ding where his name would have been in her address book if she was dating him exactly yeah yeah precisely
00:40:53
at least in my opinion there's that but then there's another big one that to I was like nope now according to Nolton
00:41:00
she quote remembers the woman Elizabeth Short sitting in a chair under a bright light and her father hitting the woman
00:41:06
in the face and head with a claw hammer now that's horrible and she did have lacerations and many wounds to her
00:41:14
head but did she have like skull fractures she um I'm not sure if she had skull fractures but she had a lot of
00:41:19
lacerations to her face in her head like if you're beaten with a claw hammer a lot of times you have skull fractures
00:41:25
here's the thing because Janice said she witnessed this while hiding in the family's garage okay I think Janice went
00:41:33
through some horrible [ __ ] in her childhood very clearly and I feel for her absolutely to be to be coming out
00:41:40
with this kind of thing a lot of stuff has happened ab and she was going through psychiatric treatment so she was
00:41:45
obviously trying to work through ome stuff yeah so I'm not saying that I don't believe this because I don't I
00:41:51
think she's just straight up lying about anything I just don't think she's gone through a lot and I think this is kind
00:41:57
kind of a manifestation of some of that and I can't imagine what she did see with her own father well she probably
00:42:01
did see this happen to somebody I just don't think that person was a little short um she said in the garage she
00:42:08
witnessed her father use a power saw to cut the body in half no no that cut is not a power saw cut a
00:42:19
power saw would leave there would be some ragged unfortunately again I'm going to get graphic there was going to
00:42:25
there's going to be some edges and some tearing there's going to be I mean she had there's there's full organs right at
00:42:34
the edge of that cut that are fully intact right that they are not touched they are not nicked they are not ragged
00:42:40
they are not destroyed and mangled they are intact which means it was something very meticulous used to do this one
00:42:45
think of a power saw it's going to be vibrating yeah it's going to an organ slip very easily and exactly mled where
00:42:53
she was found the top half of Elizabeth Short she has found there is very clearly a large organ protruding from
00:43:02
the top of her body right that would have been falling out of there and it would have been nicked and mangled and
00:43:07
destroyed it with a power saw a power saw was I will die on the hill a power saw was not used to cut her in half no
00:43:15
it just wasn't no it was a surgical situation instrument yeah 100% yep so immediately when I heard a power saw in
00:43:23
a garage I said absolutely not um the following day she says Janice said her father quote took the body to a utility
00:43:30
room next to the pier and gutted and cleaned the victim's body she wasn't she was not gutted maybe she meant the Blood
00:43:38
Part maybe like that was her version of being saying it but this one just doesn't and why would
00:43:46
for me yeah and I just it just doesn't no but I do feel for her I do I feel for Janice a lot because obviously there's
00:43:52
some stuff going on there and hopefully able to work through that sounds like he
00:43:57
was awful um and the thing is in the mid to late 1980s there was repressed memories had like a moment like it was
00:44:05
like that was the concept of that be it gained a lot of Attraction and um like a
00:44:11
lot of you know practitioners in mental health Fields were like very focused on it for a little while um I believe they
00:44:19
exist for sure oh they absolutely I do believe too much was placed on them in the 1980s it actually there there was a
00:44:25
lot of that being the drivers of a lot of the satanic panic in the later 80s and early 90s think I don't think it's
00:44:31
something that you can rely on too heavily because memories are already faulty yeah you can't hang your hat on
00:44:36
them and I'm not saying repressed memories don't exist I literally like I've experienced repressed memory but
00:44:42
again it can they can be Wy and a lot of times with repressed memories even in my
00:44:47
own experience there's missing pieces still within those memories exactly it's not it's not always a full picture
00:44:54
exactly and it uh and our brains are our brains are meant like they they by Design fill in details exactly and like
00:45:03
based on experiences based on what we're consuming based on so many different things feelings emotions how you feel
00:45:09
that day what you ate what you did you know mean like read like and it's like again repress memories absolutely I
00:45:18
believe they exist I believe they can be very helpful I believe they can be very
00:45:21
helpful moving through things and dealing with things like I that's the thing wholeheartedly I think to hang your hat
00:45:30
on a repressed memory is like hanging your hat on an eyewitness there's got to be more there's going to be some human
00:45:36
error here and there's going to be repressed memories can be like a mismash of different memories that are all
00:45:43
smushed into one y so it's like you might be that might have happened she might have saw that but again like you
00:45:48
said I don't think it was Elizabeth Short she sh saw I think she's seen Elizabeth Short y she's seen the story
00:45:55
and your brain can marry those two I just the details don't fit for me but again feel for Janice because holy [ __ ]
00:46:05
to even think that about your own father this some bad [ __ ] capable of a lot of
00:46:10
[ __ ] nefarious [ __ ] yeah um it was around the mid90s people did start to realize that like hanging your hat on
00:46:19
repressed memories was not the best course of action and that like we said indeed they exist but they are fuzzy
00:46:25
yeah um and a lot of people like you know when it was all like really heightened in like the late 80s early
00:46:33
90s when satanic Panic was starting to like explode a lot of members of law enforcement took reports of repress
00:46:39
press memories very serious even if they were out of this world strange and unrealistic they would take them as fact
00:46:48
right it was almost like not great yeah it was which is not it's just not fact there it's in someone's mind you can't
00:46:55
rely on that it's well it's just as as much as circumstantial evidence is real ref memories are real but they are
00:47:01
circumstantial evidence you got to have them along with some really concrete [ __ ] exactly um in this however with the
00:47:08
LAPD you know trying to chase anything down they even had a hard time believing this particular story um detective John
00:47:18
St John said we have a lot of people offering up their fathers and various relatives as the black dollia murder so
00:47:24
sad which means there's a lot of shitty dads out there which is like get it together we been um he said the things
00:47:30
that she meaning Janice is saying are not consistent with the facts of the case and it's not uh regardless of
00:47:37
whether you know detective St John believed her Janice remained convinced her father was involved uh she told the
00:47:43
reporter he was a very sadistic man which again breaks my heart for her um she claimed that he didn't just kill
00:47:51
Elizabeth Short either she also said she recalled two other murders committed by
00:47:55
her father and she believed Lees one of the victims was mutilated and buried in the family's yard in Westminster oh damn
00:48:02
so when she said this investigators in Los Angeles although they were suspicious of the claims members of the
00:48:08
Westminster police department were like well we should [ __ ] look into this like we didn't just Let It Go um
00:48:14
Westminster Lieutenant Larry W uh wner said repress memories like these do check out sometimes it's not unusual
00:48:21
which is exactly how I feel it's like can't ignore them but you you know hang your hat on them so in the summer of
00:48:27
1991 investigators in Westminster received approval to excavate the empty lot where nolon's house once stood yeah
00:48:35
just on the chance that Janice's memories were accurate um he told the reporter the detective or the lieutenant
00:48:42
excuse me he said she seems to think that we may find a purse or some other belongings of Elizabeth Short a few days
00:48:48
later when the site was excavated technicians found quote a rusty knife animal bone fragments and costume
00:48:55
jewelry weird but found no conclusive evidence of a murder that said was a little
00:49:03
strange cuz they said the items did appear to be buried on purpose yeah um and they did find that unusual so they
00:49:08
said we don't know how significant this is but it's definitely interesting why would anyone put such things that far
00:49:14
underground right so it is strange and it sounds like her father was a sadistic [ __ ] and maybe he did do some [ __ ] they
00:49:20
didn't find anything connected to Elizabeth yeah now despite the strangeness of the items found under the
00:49:25
house there was nothing indicating a crime even had occurred just that it was weird so w Westminster police did
00:49:32
decline to open an investigation CU they were like yeah I we can't do that based
00:49:37
on a rusty knife and costume jewelry it's like there's nothing here that says somebody was even hurt like it's just
00:49:42
not uh nevertheless Janice maintained her belief that her father had killed Elizabeth and actually went on some
00:49:48
high-profile talk shows like Larry King live Sally Jesse Raphael oh and promoted
00:49:54
her story okay in 1995 she co-published a book with Michael Newton titled Daddy was the black doia killer damn yeah even
00:50:03
after her story and the popularity of her book had passed Janice remained con like on that story and convinced that
00:50:10
her father was responsible um he a Los Angeles Times Reporter Harry uh Harish said quote she'd leave long rambling
00:50:20
voice messages on my answering machine at the times so it sounds like she really she was going through through
00:50:27
some stuff um she died unfortunately by an intentional drug overdose on March 5th 2004 oh man so I feel bad for Janice
00:50:36
that's that's a tough life cuz I don't judging by that story I don't believe that her father was the killer of
00:50:43
Elizabeth sh but I feel feel her dad was a bad man yeah and a sadistic Man by her
00:50:48
account yeah and that she went through a lot clearly I I just feel bad yeah that's
00:50:55
like I feel like that's like that's a lot and then to die by Suicide it's like obviously she was psychologically going
00:51:02
through a lot by a lot yeah you know and it's really sad um again it's very unlikely that her father was Elizabeth
00:51:10
schz killer um but in 2003 another person stepped forward to offer up his father as a potential
00:51:18
suspect in the case and this story is the one is the story in my opinion same um in his 2003 book Black doia Avenger a
00:51:29
genius for murder former LAPD homicide detective Steve hodell who is a good [ __ ] guy a good [ __ ]
00:51:38
guy yeah he you've heard his name we talked about call case we' I think we've talked about him even before we talked
00:51:44
about him a few times he is known by his colleagues as a good cop and a good guy
00:51:52
um he offers a very compelling case for who he believes is the killer his father
00:51:58
Dr George hodell doctor Dr George hodell he a surgeon right yep he sure was um he
00:52:05
believes he killed Elizabeth Short and so do I at the time of Elizabeth Short's disappearance and murder Dr hodell was a
00:52:11
well-known and highly respected physician and the one-time head of the country's social hygiene
00:52:18
Bureau uh according to hodell quote he was a hard and cold individual with a huge ego whose demeanor bordered on
00:52:26
tyrannical wow uh he said also he was an experienced physician he had the skills
00:52:33
tools and the space necessary to commit this murder without detection cuz that's
00:52:38
the other thing you need the space for this murder that is something to carry in my opinion none of the other suspects
00:52:45
have they don't have the skills they don't have the tools and they do not have the space right you need a lot of
00:52:51
space and it needs to be secret hidden space she was alive when her mouth was cut she was alive MH there's going to be
00:53:03
as [ __ ] maab as that is there's a lot of noise that was going to be happening here and he needed somewhere he could do
00:53:10
this where no one was going to find him and no one was going to hear him and to me cuz you might be thinking like okay
00:53:15
well that other guy had a garage that's one not enough space two people are going to hear screaming they're going to
00:53:21
they're going to hear those tools mixed with the screaming that if that's the way it happened it just doesn't make
00:53:27
sense for me no it doesn't make sense it really do he had George hodell I want you to look it up because I I know
00:53:34
you're all like immediately going to Google because I also did this oh yeah get get on it uh look at his house at
00:53:41
the time it's a huge house he didn't you have like a huge basement huge basement
00:53:45
basement huge basement wait correct me if I'm wrong was there like tunnels and [ __ ] I think there was just like a it
00:53:51
was a Labyrinthian kind of basement like there was a lot of space lot of space a
00:53:55
lot of space away from the rest of the house offshoots there was a lot of people in that house that were willing
00:54:02
to do a lot of [ __ ] up [ __ ] to save their own [ __ ] to make money to save their reputations L times when it's
00:54:10
wrapped up in money craziest nastiest out of this world [ __ ] happens he was also he made sure to hire people in his
00:54:20
house like cuz he he was very rich he was he had a maid he had all kinds of [ __ ] I me he's a [ __ ] surgeon he made
00:54:26
those were people that he was also [ __ ] by the way yeah so he made sure that everyone was on his side like
00:54:33
that's like he was that none of them were going to talk and he had [ __ ] on all of them yeah so this guy relied on
00:54:39
blackmail he relied on it and he was there was so much dirty [ __ ] and we're going to get into it but I I encourage
00:54:47
you to read the book by Steve hodell know anything I'm just he's convinced me it is it is captivating it's a very
00:54:55
captivating case it's one that has too many coincidences for me and for me I'm not a big coincidence person there's
00:55:04
that many it's two on the nose now George hodell Jr was born and raised in Los Angeles in the first decade of the
00:55:13
20th century which was a very big and exciting time for expansion for the city as a child he was incredibly intelligent
00:55:22
he consistently scored the highest on every test he was very very smart and ultimately he graduated high school
00:55:28
early and enrolled in the California Institute of Technology at 15 years old wow one result of his obvious
00:55:36
intelligence was that George was treated very differently than his peers his whole life and given the impression that
00:55:43
he was special and deserving of special treatment young age it's not you know it
00:55:49
can be great yeah but not great for the ego here just one year into his education at Caltech George was expelled
00:55:57
yikes according to Steve hodell his expulsion was either for being kicked out for engaging in a sexual
00:56:03
relationship with a faculty member's wife meanwhile he was 15 right or for repeatedly gambling on campus which was
00:56:10
against the school's rules maybe both yeah in the years that followed George drifted from job to job including
00:56:16
working as a crime reporter with the Los Angeles record during the prohibition era wow before finally enrolling in
00:56:22
Premed at Berkeley in 1929 which is insane insane from there he went on to pursue a medical degree at the
00:56:29
University of California and he graduated with a medical degree in 1936 he also went to school at the time where
00:56:36
that specific bsection method was being taught coincidence number one yeah following his graduation George worked
00:56:45
his way up through the State Health System also making very high society friends along the way friends with lots
00:56:51
of Hollywood Elites along the way I think we're learning now that that means something connections yeah I think we're
00:56:58
learning that that has something uh it was through this social network that he met his first wife Dorothy Harvey who
00:57:06
was the former wife of director John Houston with whom hodell had one child a daughter named Tamar hodell's marriage
00:57:14
to Dorothy Harvey didn't last long but his relationship with his daughter Tamar would prove pivotal yeah not only to his
00:57:21
life but in Steve's case against his father on October 1st 194 49 Tamar disappeared from the couple's home on
00:57:29
Franklin Street and was nowhere to be seen she was I believe at this point she was about 14ish yeah um after several
00:57:36
hours of contacting friends and neighbors George hodell did contact the LAPD and reported her missing two days
00:57:43
later she was found to be staying at a friend's house and she was taken into custody by the
00:57:48
LAPD while she talked with the police officer she explained that she'd run away because quote my home life is too
00:57:54
depressing because of all those sex parties at the Franklin house yeah now coming from someone so young the
00:58:02
statement was very shocking to the police officer U more shocking though was Tamar's confession that not only had
00:58:08
she seen the parties but also quote took part in them by the time the interview ended a few hours later Tamar had
00:58:15
implicated her father and three other adults in a conspiracy of abuse as well as confessing to having engaged in
00:58:22
various sex acts with several of her male classmates at Hollywood High high school so she was being abused on a
00:58:31
galactic level yep that is the only way to describe that given the severity of these accusations and the notoriety of
00:58:38
the men at the center of the Scandal the authorities moved very quickly and George hodell was arrested a few days
00:58:43
later and held on $5,000 bail guys get it together by the time he posted bail a few hours later the story had reached
00:58:51
the press and the one prestigious doctor was now being associated with sex parties an incest not great uh in
00:58:58
interviews with police and reporters Tamar claimed that Dr hodell had been molesting her since she was 11 years old
00:59:04
this is her father and that she had been encouraged to participate in sex acts with other adults at various House
00:59:09
Parties to which she obvious couldn't consent was she was raped that's what that means that's that's the clearer way
00:59:16
to say that not that she was you know encouraged to participate she was raped she was raped in early December 1949
00:59:25
George Odell went on trial for the abuse of his daughter and the da presented several witnesses who claimed to have
00:59:32
been at the sex parties and verified what she alleged wow even hodell himself and this should not be
00:59:40
understated because even hodell himself stated in depositions that he had been quote delving into the mystery of love
00:59:49
and the universe with his daughter yeah no there's no mystery about [ __ ] your own child
00:59:56
later he will claim like no I didn't do anything it's like nope you said it you said it because he also suggested that
01:00:03
his memory of the events was quote unclear like a dream he's [ __ ] he's disgusting in the the case should have
01:00:13
been an easy prosecution for the da close and chat open and chat had it not been said close and chat close andat
01:00:19
don't open close shut just shut it yeah throw throw him behind bars but there was one statement made by Tamar during
01:00:25
questioning from the defense that kind of made it changed it a little before ending his questioning defense attorney
01:00:31
Robert NE uh neeb asked one last question he said Tamar do you recall a conversation you had with a roommate at
01:00:40
the Franklin house by the name of Joe Barrett and do you recall in that conversation making the following
01:00:45
statement to him quote this house has secret passages my father is the murderer of
01:00:51
the Black Dalia my father is going to kill me and all the rest of the members of this household because he has a Lust
01:00:57
For Blood he is insane the courtroom was [ __ ] stunned by this I would think and Tamar tried to
01:01:04
explain that she had no recollection of having said that I mean of course she's scared for her [ __ ] life yeah despite
01:01:11
the strength of the case going into the trial it soon became clear that the defense had intended to make her seem
01:01:17
like a petty vindictive daughter who was willing to lie in order to get revenge on her father who she felt ignored her
01:01:25
that's what they were trying trying to go with I think she wished that he ignored her honestly she'd be better off
01:01:30
one defense witness after another took to the stand to call Tamar a liar or Worse to recant their previous
01:01:37
statements corroborating her initial accusations so they had said she was a and then they would come back and be
01:01:42
like just kidding real nice she's a child Steve hodell later learned that several of those [ __ ] Witnesses had
01:01:48
been offered large sums of money by his father to lie on the stand I think they call that hush money and I hope you are
01:01:54
having the life you deserve or you having the afterlife that you deserve to all those people I fully believe in
01:02:00
karma at the end of the trial George hodell was found innocent of the charges abely insane even after get you out of
01:02:07
anything he said he had been exploring the Dre world [ __ ] it was with his child
01:02:14
yeah you're [ __ ] gross dude several months later George relocated to Hawaii where he remarried and cut off
01:02:20
communication with all of his children wow nice he's a piece of [ __ ] that's good but they're better off without him
01:02:25
yeah Steve hodell hadn't given that statement about the black doia during the trial much thought really until he
01:02:32
was going through his father's belongings after he died in 1999 I hope he thought a horrible death I do too and
01:02:38
he came across a small photo album that not only contained a photo of Steve's ex-wife taken before he'd ever met her
01:02:45
but also a photo of Elizabeth Short that is insane uh coincidence number two everyone yeah the photos caught Steve
01:02:55
off guard and he started going through his father's history more closely hoping to find out why he had a photo of a
01:03:01
notorious murder victim he also found other photos that he believes could be Elizabeth sh but they have not been
01:03:07
confirmed okay uh over the course of several years Steve hodell combed through old police files and City
01:03:13
archives remember he is an LAPD homicide he's a detective um and he talked to anyone who knew his father and could
01:03:20
provide any insight into his history through that process he learned that his father's close relationship sh with many
01:03:27
celebrities including the artist manray who was a surrealist artist would figure
01:03:33
prominently in his theory according to Steve in the mid1 1940s Dr George hodell had become known as a reliable and
01:03:41
discreet provider of abortions whose Client List included Elizabeth Short meaning he had even more blackmail on
01:03:48
people exactly in his interviews Steve claims to have spoken with at least eight people who quote asserted that
01:03:54
they knew firsthand that had some kind of relationship with short at least eight people have said that that's a lot
01:04:00
of people yeah based on and that that um that artist manre he does a painting a couple of his paintings are very
01:04:10
reminiscent of the scene yeah uh based on all the pieces he uncovered while writing his book Steve hodell concluded
01:04:17
that his father coaxed Elizabeth Short to a party at his house where she was subjected to sexual assault torture and
01:04:24
eventually murdered he offers a large amount of circumstantial evidence to support this claim and again like I said
01:04:30
circumstantial evidence is good evidence um including the fact that Short's body
01:04:35
was found to be positioned in a way that like I said recalled two of man R man Ray's more famous works of art which Dr
01:04:45
uh George hodell or yeah Dr George hodell were was very interested in yeah now you can also he was like very into
01:04:53
like surrealist dream [ __ ] clearly hear it when he says it was all a dream and I
01:04:58
was exploring the dream of the universe and blah blah blah like he's very into that [ __ ] so that does figure
01:05:03
prominently despite the circumstantial nature of the evidence Steve wasn't alone in his suspicions either following
01:05:10
hodell's acquit for assaulting his daughter LAPD detectives started looking closer at him as a suspect in the
01:05:17
Elizabeth shortcase oh [ __ ] so during that time they were like whoa whoa what about this guy wait a second the other
01:05:23
officers outside of Steve hodell this included Dr hodell being followed by investigators for several weeks and
01:05:30
having his phones tapped for a period of time which when you hear about the phone
01:05:35
tapping of it all I'm like I don't know how you continue going into this like how did you not even build more against
01:05:40
it because I think people got paid off during this period George hodell had been heard on more than one occasion to
01:05:49
vaguely allude to his participation in Elizabeth Short's murder in one phone conversation on the the first day of
01:05:56
being tapped George tells a friend supposing I did Kill the black doia they can't prove it now because my secretary
01:06:04
is dead coincidence number three who says that not me and ultimately the investigation into George hodell went
01:06:12
nowhere and was ended when he moved to Hawaii in 1950 but let me tell you a little more about that why that's insane
01:06:19
yeah so on the very first day after he said that supposing I killed the black doia they can't prove it now cuz my my
01:06:26
secretary's dead and it's also like why do those two things correlate to each other George exactly on that same those
01:06:32
first few days he said that they also got the statement of they got that statement they got him bragging about
01:06:38
paying off law enforcement wow uh having officers demoted that's good who were peeking too quick too much into his [ __ ]
01:06:47
and he Tau like anybody who was like looking further into his like the case against you know that his daughter had
01:06:54
against him and anybody who was on that that he was getting demoted paying off people to get like to turn on the stand
01:07:01
which they have proof of which is how he was ultimately acquitted yeah and his physician friends were also part of all
01:07:08
this like these conversations apparently so there was a lieutenant je gemson who was working
01:07:14
hodell's case and one of his physician friends that he talked to this Lieutenant jemson he was quoted in a
01:07:23
report as saying to this lieutenant someday I'm going to fix Tamar I'm going to cut a chunk out of her calf of her
01:07:30
leg and fry it and eat it in front of her eyes and then puke it up in front of her
01:07:34
face um what those are his friends physician friends saying that about his daughter who he is accused and most
01:07:45
definitely assaulted yeah oh just of note the there is a large portion of Flesh removed violent ly from Elizabeth
01:07:56
Short's thigh by the way and her right breast was saw off so hearing some of his friends say I
01:08:06
would cut a piece of her calf out and fry it and eat it in front of her is pretty noteworthy when you look that
01:08:13
there are pieces of Elizabeth Short's flesh that have been very obviously and very intentionally removed from her body
01:08:20
in fatty parts of her body as well yeah her thigh and a one whole breast wow like you're telling me that's
01:08:29
coincidence that we just happen to have a guy that's saying he's going to do that I think that's coincidence number
01:08:34
four now wow holy [ __ ] yeah in February when when they were tapping his phone there was one day where they hear George
01:08:40
hodell speaking of his secretary Ruth Spalding who he was speaking of before my secretary dead he said he she died
01:08:48
she died under suspicious overdose in 1945 and this time he's saying quote they thought there was something fishy
01:08:57
anyways now they may have figured it out killed her maybe I did kill my secretary so he literally just said it
01:09:03
killed her like what do you you have you literally have it and if he had any Rel
01:09:10
and apparently if he had any relationship with Elizabeth Short that secretary would have known about it of
01:09:14
course she would have obviously she organized all the [ __ ] according to Steve hodell the LAPD at the time
01:09:20
acknowledged that they suspected and investigated hodell of intentionally overdose ing his secretary with seanol
01:09:27
which is a barbituate and a sedative yeah they said they looked into him they thought he did it they investigated it
01:09:34
at the time there is a lot on these tapes and I urge you to check them out because holy [ __ ] he was a shady dude
01:09:41
and he was just it's literally proven that he was paying Law Enforcement Officers he was talking about it and
01:09:46
often times he would talk in German to his friends saying these things yeah it's insane the transcripts of these
01:09:54
tapes are Bonkers they're bananas I don't know how we just fluffed it away and we're like
01:10:01
ah I don't know maybe he's a suspect what you almost wonder if he did know that he was being that they had
01:10:07
absolutely did at [ __ ] with them he absolutely did at one point it's insane now in the early 2000s Steve hodell
01:10:14
presented all his materials to the Los Angeles District Attorney they reviewed the material and ultimately decided not
01:10:21
to pursue the case for why mistake mistake in my my opinion [ __ ] you guys I think it's such
01:10:28
a big mistake they didn't like dude he's dead the least you could do just look look into it and see he done all the
01:10:36
[ __ ] leg work he might as well give it a shot well it's like you're not getting any more money from this guy
01:10:39
he's dead yeah [ __ ] convict him yeah convict him he can't hurt you anymore let's let's go and also the people that
01:10:47
were at that time being paid off by him and all that [ __ ] that's the older L LD
01:10:51
this is supposed to be a new crop of people that are supposed to be going through this that you're not those
01:10:56
people and it's like look into it man there's enough here he absolutely in my opinion he is absolutely without a doubt
01:11:04
the yes if you look at the transcripts of these tapes there's also a time where they caught a woman screaming on the
01:11:11
tape and then they hear George hodell talking to another person on the tape saying leave no Trace that's good and a
01:11:17
woman is screaming and they didn't go check that out and even Steve hodell is like I don't understand how nobody
01:11:24
listening to those at the time they were tapping him like live why nobody made the 5 minute trip from the state the
01:11:30
department to go check on what was happening because they were he was like at the very least there was like at the
01:11:35
very least there was felonious assault of a woman happening clearly and they didn't do anything so that to me tells
01:11:42
me everything it's like you didn't want to intervene on that what the [ __ ] were
01:11:46
you going to intervene on nothing if it cost them money it's crazy I very much encourage you to look into that whole
01:11:54
part imagine coming to that realization and imagine what his [ __ ] childhood was
01:12:00
exactly like my God and it must be frustrating that nobody's [ __ ] listening to you yeah now since
01:12:06
Elizabeth Short's body was found in that bacon lot in 1947 her murder has fascinated and I'm one of those people
01:12:14
fascinated the public and generated no small amount of myths legends lore everything associated with it um by this
01:12:21
point it's entirely likely what's known about the victim in the case is a lot of Legend in fact like we've given
01:12:28
you all the facts we can but a lot of things you'll hear we were talking about how like you know she went to Hollywood
01:12:33
to become a star like that's that was true a very small yeah it's like she had a lot more
01:12:40
that she wanted to accomplish out there like getting her life together and like starting over being healthy being able
01:12:46
to breathe like meeting someone she had all kinds of aspirations so it's like a lot of this became you know and there's
01:12:53
things you'll hear that you can easily do yeah um on one hand the notoriety of the case you know it's surprising
01:13:01
because there was very little evidence that they had um and it's not like Elizabeth Short was like a famous
01:13:08
actress at the time she was you know a a civilian walking around trying to get a
01:13:13
job right but when you look at how she was found what she endured and the Mystery surrounding her it's easier to
01:13:22
understand why this has become such a Fascination for everybody pool of suspects that pool of suspects and just
01:13:27
like that crime scene there's no way this wasn't going to well Fascinate people going back to the the manray of
01:13:34
it all like you guys got to look at some of those photos and then look it's interesting to say the least to even
01:13:40
just like don't look at the crime scene photos if you don't want to but even just to hear them described the way that
01:13:45
her body was positioned off center yeah like look at man R just go look at it and this also is like the intersection
01:13:52
between Hollywood and murder which is that always is going to get everybody's attention it's just it's a fascinating
01:14:00
place it's a dark place it's a scary place it's a beautiful place it's a shimmery place you know it's like all
01:14:07
layered it is so layered um since her death you know Elizabeth Short has become a symbol for anyone you know
01:14:15
hoping to moralize in One Direction or the other because a lot is placed on you know how many boyfriends she had and
01:14:24
what she was doing with her life whatever the facts it seems unlikely that anyone's going to be
01:14:31
really satisfied with an ending to this case because people have so many different theories thoughts and theories
01:14:38
but I think people I almost think it's like the Jack the Ripper case where you don't even know anymore if people want
01:14:45
it solved that are not like part of the case you know what I mean that they just
01:14:49
want to keep talking about it and keep theorizing um a former LA Times Reporter Larry Harish who we mentioned earlier
01:14:57
said people don't want the record set straight people want this grab bag of Noir tropes yeah which is not cool not
01:15:04
great that honestly he said it perfectly it's a bunch of Noir tropes a grab bag of Noir tropes and when you really look
01:15:11
at the reality of the case and I I this is just our opinion that I think Steve hodell is on to something here abolutely
01:15:18
I think he he's a very interesting person to listen to and a trusted Source a trusted Source uh you know somebody
01:15:25
who has a long history of not being a [ __ ] uh that I can tell I think it's an interesting one and
01:15:33
I think it can be solved I really do I think it can and I think we just need to keep pushing for it you never know like
01:15:40
we said a cold case is never cold it's never cold it's never cold it just gets a little chilly and we just got to give
01:15:45
it a blanket so I think we can do it Steve let's go Steve's like I tried Steve's like but I've done everything
01:15:52
like I literally went everybody I could Steve I don't know I want to re approach
01:15:55
when there's new people exactly we just got to reignite it reinvigorate it keep it in people's ears keep talking about
01:16:02
it keep bringing new things forward and eventually it's going to happen I know it um so that is the case of the black
01:16:08
Delia the murder of Elizabeth Short it's a crazy one it is and I'm glad we' Revisited it I wanted to give it a
01:16:15
little more uh def space more and time and attention and yeah different things yeah for sure very very interesting case
01:16:24
I think we we could probably revisit it again in even like five more years and we have more abely and thanks to Dave
01:16:29
for doing such a good job with this one too cuz Dave is one of the smartest people I know he is he's
01:16:34
lovely you guys should all have a friend like Dave you should so we hope that you
01:16:39
keep listening and we hope you keep it weird I honey honey we don't got to say it
01:16:48
that's so Weir they don't fill your own cup Bring It full circle Steve let's talk Steve
01:16:56
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