00:00:00
Hey weirdos. I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Morbid with a side of refrigerator cigarette.
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[Music] In case you don't know what that is, I don't promote smoking. I do promote Diet
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Coke. Yeah, that's that's a thing. People call Diet Cokes a fridge cigarette. >> It's just a meme I saw once.
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>> Yeah, that I think that's funny. >> Mhm. I think >> I too think it's funny. >> Strawberries and cream Dr. Pepper. My
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fridge cigarettes. >> All right. Well, I think I think Diet Coke is disgusting. You know what? No.
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You know which one I do like of the Dr. Pepper ones? >> Um the cream soda one. >> Oh, see. I think that's disgusting.
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>> Disgusting. >> Disgusting. But that's funny cuz they were in your fridge when I tried them. You gave me
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somebody else like them. >> No, you know why they were in my fridge? >> Tell me.
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>> Cuz I think you thought that was the kind I liked and you got them for one of
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your gettogethers and then you gave me the rest of them and I felt bad. >> It's my fault. You know why those are in
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my refrigerat? Because my refri my refrigerat. >> You know why those are in my refrigerator? Because of you.
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>> No. And that's No, cuz you were doing a kind you were doing a kindness and then
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I did a kindness back >> by taking them and not saying like those are not the ones I like
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>> until now. >> Until now like a year later. >> You little you little cuz I really don't
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like those. But you you drank them. >> I like them. >> And I think Aiden drank some. So worked
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out worked out for me. >> Drink drank drunk. >> Drank it. Uh yeah. What else is this new
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brother man? Uh, you guys sold out the Sunday show in under four minutes. You're outrageous. I It's insane. Like,
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who are you? Here's the thing. Um, there are tickets being resold. That has nothing to do with us. We get a proposal
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with how many seats and we say, "Yeah, that price sounds fair." And then people can buy them and do whatever the [ __ ]
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they want with them, which sucks. I realize >> it sucks a giant ass, >> but we have nothing to do with that.
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Yeah. So, if you see tickets that are like >> astronomical priced, it's even on the
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Wilbur website because you have to look under the thing and it'll say verified resale ticket. That tells you that
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someone's trying to resell that ticket. >> Yeah. >> Uh cuz there's like balcony seats that
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are sitting there right now for like $1,200. Whoever did that, go [ __ ] yourself.
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>> But like that's that's not us, you know? We're not out here charging [ __ ] >> No. And that's how it works. We
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literally get a proposal with each seat and how much money it should cost. And we actually went back a couple times and
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were like, "Ah, let's be like a little more fair." >> We would never do that to you. No.
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>> So, so anyway, but I there was just a couple people that were concerned that we were like trying to
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>> concerned that we thought >> we were out here thinking we're like Sabrina Carpenter or something. So, I'm
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not >> I wish. And also those like those tickets that people are concerned about,
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those aren't like we're not >> like the resale tickets. >> Whoever's selling those tickets, if
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somebody buys them, they get that money. So >> yeah, >> we're not profiting off of that in any
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way. >> It's just crazy. >> It's a wild world. >> Yeah, people people are are getting
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rougher and rougher out here in these streets. But you know what? You're all great. You're all that matters.
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>> You're all fan freakingastic. Yeah, we just like it was only a couple people that like even noticed it and were so
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and mentioned it, but we just didn't want anybody thinking that we were out here trying to sell tickets for like
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$700 and [ __ ] >> No. >> Uh, that's crazy. [ __ ] crazy. Um, but yeah. So, so that's stupid um stupid of
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people to do. >> I think that's really our only bit nasty though. >> I know. I think that is. I like that
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I've officially named our business um segment Bid Nasty. >> That's pretty fun in my opinion. of
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nasty >> and that commences been nasty. >> Yeah, cuz I don't think there's anything
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else that really has come up. >> No, >> that that you guys need to [ __ ] know about.
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>> You know, >> don't forget um we lied. Biden nasty over >> more nasty. >> Don't forget uh tomorrow actually cuz I
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think this is Thursday's episode. >> I was going to say look at look at me. She looked at me she looked at me first
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like I know I was just like she looked at me blankly and shook her head. I just went, "Oh, no. I don't I don't know
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those things." >> So, today is Thursday for you. It's what? Tuesday for us. So, we're not even
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that far apart. Don't worry. We're not getting back into craziness. But anyway, Friday is going to be our bonus episode
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where we are going to talk about >> um Unknown Number, the high school catfish scandal, which I actually last
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night me and Drew were watching TikTok together and people have been filming their reactions when they find out who
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the catfish is. Oh, yeah. >> And I need you all to please do that if you don't know.
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>> Oh, hell yeah. If you somehow don't know who the catfish is at this point, you
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got to film yourself watching it because your reaction will be insane. >> I've been spoiled. I already know.
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>> I got spoiled ahead of time. >> So, I won't do it, but you guys should definitely do it.
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>> I got spoiled ahead of time, but even still >> still shocking. >> Well, even still shocking. And also, I
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was like, well, I don't know, you know, I didn't know exactly. >> Yeah. >> But we won't we'll talk about it on
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Friday. >> We'll talk about it on Friday. Yeah. Aka tomorrow if you're listening on
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Thursday. >> Yeah. All right. So, that wraps up Bit Nasty. Uh now Bid nasty is done. Pinky
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swear. Let's go girls. Uh today we are going to be talking about a very interesting case. Um and one that so
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we're going to be talking about Gloria Ramirez. Um you might see her referred to sometimes as the toxic woman, which
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is shitty. >> Not great to do that. Um, it's it's really not >> great to name somebody that.
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>> After you hear the story, you'll understand why like that's, you know, and her family does not want her to be
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>> known as the toxic woman. >> Yeah. >> Um, that's who who would want that, you
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know? So, >> so we will not be calling her the toxic woman, but I just wanted in case you had
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seen it that that's the same Gloria Ramirez. Um, this this story is wild. I know like I know of this story but I
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don't know all the details. >> Very interesting. Very tragic. >> Yeah. >> Very scary.
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>> Yeah. >> Uh so let's start. Uh within hours of Gloria Ramirez taking um an unexpected
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visit to the ER in 1994, medical personnel who you know rushed to her aid that evening became sick with symptoms
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that are typically associated with like insecticide poisoning. >> Oh [ __ ] like very strange like tremors,
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apneoa, burning skin like randomly. So like if you like ingested like raid or something.
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>> Yeah. And like several of these people, several of these like medical personnel
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required hospitalization themselves because of it. >> Oh. And in the days and weeks after
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this, the doctors and nurses who came into direct contact with Ramirez continued to experience these crazy
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bizarre symptoms. They were defying logical explanation at this point and they were leaving everyone wondering how
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had this seemingly ordinary woman's body been transformed into some kind of like
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Trojan horse of toxicity. That's what that's essentially what they were saying. Like what happened here? Like
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>> cuz initially they had no idea. >> They had no idea. They didn't know what they had gotten into. And honestly the
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the symptoms and things that were happening were like associated with chemical warfare essentially.
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>> What? >> Yeah. It's wild. So, let's start at the beginning. >> It's the best place to start.
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>> It always is. On the evening of February 19th, 1994, Gloria Ramirez complained to
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her boyfriend Johnny Estrada that she was having some trouble breathing, which is scary.
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>> Yeah. >> She was only 31 years old. She was a mother of two, but she had been
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diagnosed with advanced stage cervical cancer about 6 weeks before this. >> Oh, wow. So, she was actually scheduled
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to begin some pretty aggressive chemotherapy the following Tuesday, but obviously this night things took a
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pretty alarming turn. And so, when she started to say, "I'm having trouble breathing." This was It should never be
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something that's ignored, but getting that diagnosis, it made it even scarier. >> Yeah, of course.
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>> Um, and she actually ended up collapsing. Like, she told her boyfriend, "I h something's wrong." And
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then she collapsed. >> Oh, that's so scary. Johnny called the paramedics and they got there really
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quickly and she was very quickly transported to Riverside General Hospital and this is in California.
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>> Okay. >> Uh she was admitted at about 8:15 p.m. and taken to trauma unit 1. Emergency
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staff assessed the whole situation. Everybody was moving at a rapid pace, but by the time she arrived there, her
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breathing had gotten way worse. It was super shallow, really quick, and it was causing her blood pressure to fall
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really, really rapidly. >> That's so scary. >> So, in just trying to determine what the
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cause of all of this was, doctors and nurses questioned Gloria as best they could, right?
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>> Uh, but by this point, she was barely conscious and she was only able to really provide some short answers and
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most of them were kind of unintelligible and frankly unhelpful at this point. >> Yeah. She's not like totally with it at
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this point. >> Yeah. So the doctors and nurses, the whole staff were questioning the
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paramedics as well who transported Gloria. All they knew was that they had been told by Johnny Estrada that her
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name is Gloria Ramirez. She's 31 years old and she was recently diagnosed with cervical cancer. So the attending
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medical staff started treatment and they started by injecting a combination of bzzoazipines,
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Valium, Versid, and Adavan. >> Oh wow. >> That was to sedate Gloria. >> Yeah, I would think so.
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>> Obviously. and followed by more injections of lidocaine and an anti-arithmic called bratilium to
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stabilize the irregular heartbeat that was happening. >> Okay. >> Um so the drugs started working their
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way through her system and in the in the meanwhile nurse Moren Welch began performing mouthto-mouth resuscitation
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with an ambu bag. This is >> cuz she was starting to really go >> intense. >> It is it it's like one of those intense
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medical scenes that you're picturing in your head. It was like something from the pit.
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>> Exactly. That's exactly what it is. And the combination of the drugs and this
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forced air should have been enough to stabilize Gloria's situation at least for a brief period of time. Um, you
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know, just trying to so they could collect some more information even just to move forward.
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>> But when it became clear she wasn't responding to the treatment at all, medical staff began preparing to shock
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Gloria's heart back into a normal rhythm with a defibrill. >> [ __ ] >> It was just going to hell. like
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everything was going haywire. >> And she's 31 years old. >> 31 years old. >> Jesus.
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>> 31 years old. And the first indication that something was a miss came when the
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nurse cut away Gloria's t-shirt to try to apply the electro electrodes. And she found that the woman's body was like
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covered in what looked like an oily sheen, like an oily substance, >> like you put like Vicks on your chest or
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something. >> Yeah. Like But one nurse described it as like an oil slick. Um, she said like you
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see on the ground of a gas station. >> Oh, you know, like that kind of sheen, which is different.
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>> Yeah. I was like, so not like on your chest. >> Yeah. It was then that the medical staff
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noticed a faint odor coming from Gloria's body. What they thought was probably coming from Gloria's body that
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some would later describe as fruity, while others said it smelled more like garlic.
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>> It's always sickly sweet. to me how people can smell things differently or see things differently
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>> or it's like just different notes of this odor >> hit someone different >> someone more like like someone's going
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to sit there and say well it was sickly sweet like garlic and it's like they get
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the note of garlic somebody else is like fruit >> it's like when you see people do like a
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wine tasting and they're like I'm getting notes of sandalwood >> yeah it's like and then you're drinking
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it and you're like I'm getting notes of uh grape >> grape sour grape grape >> now by the time by the time this was all
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going on, Gloria was in full cardiac arrest. Full cardiac arrest. And there was no time to linger over this kind of
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odd discovery that they had all just come across. >> Yeah. They're like, "We'll get
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>> put a pin in that." So medical staff continued the life-saving protocols and following the defibrillation, nurse
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Susan Kaine swabbed Gloria's arm and inserted the catheter, then attached the syringe to try to draw blood. Once the
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vial was filled, Cain handed it to Morin Welch. It's important that you're getting this um transfer of like the
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chain of custody essentially of everything so you can it'll be important later. Um so again, Susan Kane swabbed
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Gloria's arm, inserted the catheter, >> took the syringe, drew the blood, and then she handed it to Moren Welch, the
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nurse, who immediately noticed that the blood smelled of ammonia. >> Oh. Welch passed the vial off to medical
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resident Julie Gorchinski, who in addition to the unusual ammonia smell, noticed there appeared to be quote
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manila colored particles floating in the blood. >> Oh, >> they were probably all like, "What the
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[ __ ] is going on?" >> Yeah. >> So, moments after the blood sample was collected, trauma unit one was plunged
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further into chaos, if you can even believe it. >> I was like, "Yeah, how?" As he continued
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his attempt to stabilize Gloria Ramirez, Dr. Alberto Ooa heard someone shout, "Catch her. Catch her. Catch her." Okay.
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Turning to see what >> is on a table. >> So turning to see where the [ __ ] that's
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coming from. Ooa just barely managed to catch Susan Kain. >> Okay. >> Under the arms as her legs gave out and
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she dropped to the floor. >> She like lost consciousness. >> Yeah. just like passed out.
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>> Okay. >> Kane had just been removed from the room on a gurnie when Gorchinsky began to
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feel nauseous. And these are all the people that were doing all the medical. Yeah.
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>> Feeling as though she was going to be sick, she excused herself from the room
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and went to sit down at the nurses station. But she wasn't there for long before she too slumped to the floor and
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started exhibiting symptoms of apnea. >> She was intermittently twitching and shaking. Oh my god. And then she would
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stop breathing for several seconds. What the [ __ ] Like picturing this scene from beginning
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to now even. And it's it's going to keep going. >> It feels like something out of a
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television show. >> It doesn't You would see this happening in a show and be like, "Calm the [ __ ]
00:14:41
down everybody." Like something out of like er like so dramatized, you know? >> But even er you'd be like,
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>> "No." I know. Exactly. >> Like you'd be like, "Guys, this is not this doesn't make sense."
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>> Yeah. >> This is No. No. It actually feels like something out of house. Yeah.
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>> You know when like crazy [ __ ] goes down in House and they're like and then he
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goes to the bottom >> diseases. This is a house episode >> which I [ __ ] love that show. House is
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a great I haven't seen that in forever. >> Great show. >> Yeah. This is cuz like we're going from
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and it's all so sudden. That's the thing. It's like all happening very quickly. Like
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>> poor Gloria. >> It's just six weeks ago diagnosed and then immediately feels a little
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shortness of breath. passes out cold at her house, is rushed to the hospital, and right when she gets there, she goes
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into cardiac arrest. They're trying to do like mouthto mouth trying to defi defibrillate her heart back
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>> and now everybody starts dropping like flies. Like >> it just won't stop. I don't I feel like
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I would run out of that hospital crying. I don't like that's a lot. Now, back in
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trauma unit one, Moren Welch, >> another person who handled the vial, was the third person affected.
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>> She later said, "I remember hearing someone scream." And she said, "And then she passed out."
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>> When Welch regained consciousness, she no longer had control over her arms and
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legs. >> What? >> Yep. >> Yep. No. >> Moments after that, the entire emergency room at Riverside General was evacuated.
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>> Yeah. I was waiting for that >> cuz like what the [ __ ] going on? And medical staff continued treating
00:16:17
patients in the parking lot. Holy canoli. Well, and I quote, "Hazardous materials materials collectors dressed
00:16:25
in protective clothing tested the air in the emergency room for dangerous gases."
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Cuz that would be my first thought. I'd be like, "This is a gas leak." Like something's up here
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>> really bad is in this ventilation system and we're all [ __ ] breathing it in
00:16:38
right now. [Music] So, in trauma unit one, Gloria's condition continued to worsen as all
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this was going on with her blood pressure dropping at an alarming rate. And despite their efforts to stabilize
00:17:03
her, and this is just so tragic, amid all of this, Gloria Ramirez died at 8:50 p.m. from what an autopsy would later
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identify as kidney failure brought on by cervical cancer. >> Oh wow. So she died as a result of that
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>> six weeks earlier and died. >> That is wild. >> And it's like she got in there at 8:15
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p.m. and was dead by 8:50. >> Wow. >> When as all around her people are just chaos,
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>> but they're also at the same time their absolute best. >> Oh, it's awful. It's so tragic all the
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way around. >> Oh, she's so young. And she you said she had two children. >> She's a mother.
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>> That's awful. >> Now, once Dr. Ooaha had pronounced Gloria dead, her body was sealed into an
00:17:46
airtight um bag and moved to an isolated room in the hospital because again, they
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don't know what's Yeah. >> Among those who helped move the body was ER nurse Sally Baldderas, who had been
00:17:56
in trauma unit one and helped to collect the blood sample from Gloria. Once she'd
00:18:01
returned to the parking lot after moving Gloria to where she needed to be, Baldderas felt ill and then started
00:18:08
wretching and complaining of quote a burning sensation on her skin. >> Oh, >> and then she too needed emergency
00:18:14
medical attention. >> This is like the fourth or fifth person at this point. In total, 23 of the 37 members of the
00:18:24
emergency department who worked the night Ramirez was brought in complained of experiencing at least one symptom.
00:18:31
Whoa. 23 of the 37 members of the emergency department. Is that like mass hysteria? Like Well, that's one of the
00:18:39
that was one of the thoughts that people had, >> but cuz I'm like that's an insane amount
00:18:44
of people who weren't even in the room. This is also too though, >> it's like >> people are experiencing real symptoms.
00:18:52
Yeah. >> Like this, you know, they're not just like, >> you know, Salem witch trial style like
00:18:57
throwing themselves saying they see like monkeys on the wall and stuff like >> they're experiencing like actual medical
00:19:03
emergencies, >> which is wild. >> Yeah. Now, Baldderez, whose symptoms were initially described as little more
00:19:10
than a headache, required a 10day hospital stay to treat the symptoms of apnea she began experiencing after
00:19:17
exposure. >> So, that's another person with apnea. >> Yeah. Susan Kaine also continued to
00:19:22
experience apnea in the days following and was hospitalized at Corona Regional Medical Center until her uh symptoms
00:19:29
subsided 3 days later. >> I wonder if they renamed that place. >> I know. I was thinking that, too. I was
00:19:34
like, woof. But also, holy [ __ ] Yeah, by far the most the most affected from the exposure to Gloria Ramirez was Dr.
00:19:42
Julie Gorgjinsky who suffered a number of serious symptoms and even underwent surgery on her knees several weeks later
00:19:50
to treat avascular necrosis >> which is a condition where the bones that make up the joints begin d
00:19:57
basically dying for lack of blood circulation. >> Like necrosis what the [ __ ] Gorchinsk's
00:20:04
other symptoms included hepatitis, pancreatitis, and quote chest seizing muscle spasms and breathing relapses
00:20:13
that necessitated use of a respirator. Holy [ __ ] I just keep saying that, but like
00:20:20
>> she was only 33 >> experiencing all this and she couldn't draw a full breath for like months after
00:20:27
exposure. >> And so the what was the thing called that she was had the necrosis thing?
00:20:31
avascular necrosis. So like her the nerves in her knees were dying off. The bones that make up the joints start
00:20:39
dying from lack of blood circulation. Holy. And she's 30 something years old. >> 33.
00:20:46
Like is she going to be able to use her legs? >> Mhm. Now among the more baffling
00:20:51
elements of the case, at least in the earlier days of this whole investigation, because now they're like,
00:20:55
"What the [ __ ] happened here?" >> Yeah. was that the paramedics who transported Glory to Riverside General,
00:21:00
who'd presumably been in close contact with her body, experienced none of the symptoms present among the ER staff.
00:21:08
>> I just pulled my head back and went to the side like, huh? >> This led investigators from Riverside
00:21:13
County agencies and Cal OSHA to focus their attention on the hospital itself, believing that something was circulating
00:21:20
in the hospital, possibly in the ventilation system. Because a lot of times like in the and I don't know
00:21:25
obviously what happened here but like a lot of times they're like putting oxygen
00:21:28
on you like that close that close. >> I mean they were doing all the things she was in full
00:21:34
>> Yeah. >> Like >> she was in very much stress on her way to cardiac arrest in the in the
00:21:40
ambulance. So they were doing a hell of a lot. >> And think about a trauma unit compared
00:21:44
to the like the size of that compared to an ambulance back of an ambulance and a
00:21:48
closedin probably not that well ventilated space. That's why they're thinking it has to do with the
00:21:54
ventilation in the hospital. >> Yeah. >> In fact, this wasn't the first time Riverside General had trouble with toxic
00:22:00
fumes. >> That's like not something you want on your Yelp reviews. >> You don't want like one that says toxic
00:22:07
fumes, let alone multiple. One time having toxic fumes is like >> too many. Yeah.
00:22:13
>> You know? >> Yeah. In 1991, so only a couple of years before this, two employees required
00:22:19
treatment for exposure to what was believed to be a toxic gas leak from a sterilizer. The [ __ ] Not a sterilizer
00:22:27
leaking toxic fumes. >> Just one year later, a federal inspection discovered that algae growing
00:22:33
in the water in a water reservoir >> was also causing issues. >> Babe, we got algae.
00:22:39
>> We got algae. And a year after that, an inspection found the emergency room was
00:22:44
permeated with sewer gas from a drain. >> That can kill you. >> Sewer gas will [ __ ] kill you.
00:22:51
>> Yep. >> Yep. >> Yep. >> Not sewer gas in the Don't you tell me there's more. Is there another comma
00:22:58
there? >> No. >> Okay. I mean, let alone Jesus Christ. >> We got enough commas. J. So, the hazmat
00:23:05
team began by searching for a variety of toxins capable of causing the symptoms that the hospital staff were dealing
00:23:12
with, particularly hydrogen sulfide, which is an insidious poison that smells like rotten eggs and at high
00:23:19
concentrations can kill a person after one or two whiffs. >> Insidious. >> Insidious. People who go into hazmat are
00:23:25
just like straight up heroes. >> Yeah. >> Like imagine like risking your [ __ ] like
00:23:30
that. >> I know. and fast gene, a chemical commonly used in the creation of organic chemical
00:23:37
compounds, but one that can also be used to create um a chemical weapon. >> Oh, good.
00:23:43
>> Yeah. Don't write that down. Uh it tears open capillaries in the lungs, drowning
00:23:49
its victims in their own blood. >> Oh, that is like chemical warfare. >> Chemical weapons
00:23:57
>> are the scariest thing in the entire universe. sound made up. >> No, they do. It sounds like something
00:24:03
out of like a futuristic novel. >> I'm horrified right now. >> So, where Hazmat team is looking for
00:24:09
hydrogen sulfide, insidious poison that smells like rotten eggs and can kill you
00:24:13
with a couple whips uh whips or faz gene, which is literally something that will tear open capillaries in your lungs
00:24:21
and drown you in your blood. >> Fortunately, neither was found at the hospital. >> Well, that's that's uh really fantastic
00:24:27
news. So, in addition to the negative results from the tests looking for toxins in the air, the theory that those
00:24:33
affected had been exposed to something circulating in the vents or other hospital symptoms, while certainly like
00:24:39
a reasonable theory, was undermined by other obvious factors. For one, Dr. Ooa, who'd probably spent more time with
00:24:48
Gloria Ramirez than anyone else, >> was totally fine, never experienced any ill effects from exposure to Gloria's
00:24:54
body. >> Interesting. And that is like something you need to understand. He was closest,
00:25:00
probably spent the most time and he did not experience anything from Gloria Ramirez's body.
00:25:06
>> Also, if something had been circulating in the vents or the water supply there,
00:25:11
>> it almost certainly would have affected more than just those working in the ER.
00:25:15
It would have also affected patients and visitors >> because it's not just like the only
00:25:19
people in the ER are the people working there. There's a ton of civilians walking around.
00:25:23
>> Well, and even probably other areas of the hospital, too. It's not always just
00:25:26
one building. I don't know, maybe it is in this case. >> So, because of that, investigators
00:25:30
returned to the only lead they had, which was Gloria Ramirez's body, might have had something going on,
00:25:36
>> which I understand needing to like check all the boxes. >> Oh, yeah. I don't think anybody faults
00:25:40
them for having to look at that as an option. So, after several delays, the autopsy of Gloria Ramirez took place on
00:25:47
February 25th, and from the start, it was clear that it was going to be anything but a typical autopsy.
00:25:53
>> Okay. Working in a specially sealed room, the 90-minute autopsy was conducted by a team of four
00:25:59
pathologists, all dressed in airtight toxinproof safety suits. >> How long does a typical autopsy take?
00:26:05
>> Honestly, it can take it varies. That's the thing. 90 minutes is like sure. >> Like it really depends on like
00:26:14
>> so many factors in an autopsy. If it's a complete autopsy, if it's a keep, if
00:26:18
it's a return, like keep the organs for research or you're returning them to the body. Uh if it's
00:26:24
if it includes the the head, like if it's a neuro case, if they want, you know, the spinal cord taken out, if they
00:26:32
want, you know, uh bone marrow taken, say they want >> so many things, >> for lack of a better term, like the
00:26:38
works. How long does that take? >> That could take hours. >> Okay, so this one isn't really insanely
00:26:43
long. This is this is pretty this is a pretty decent one I would say. Like this is and again somebody very skilled and
00:26:49
capable can probably do a complete one in in less time than I probably could. >> And like when you were performing them
00:26:56
how many people were working at the same time is four people working on the same
00:27:00
body kind of crazy. >> Pathologists is a lot of pathologists to have in the room but I understand why
00:27:04
they did it in this case because if it's a I've never worked with four pathologists on an autopsy. How many
00:27:09
would you typically >> Usually I was only alongside one and if it was a neuro case maybe two because it
00:27:14
was like a neuropathologist with us >> and is like the doctor, right? Like they're like the medical examiner.
00:27:20
>> They're the the specialists. >> I see. >> Um so four pathologists like that's a
00:27:25
lot. >> Yeah. Unless it's like they unless they you know maybe confuse four pathologists
00:27:30
with a couple of texts too, but I could see why they would have four pathologists here cuz what the [ __ ]
00:27:35
going on, you know? Like that. >> But also at the same time, I'm like, if this is coming from Gloria's body, which
00:27:41
it sounds like it's probably not, uh, for pathologist, like you want to take all those people out.
00:27:45
>> I know. >> You want to take out all those pathologist? >> Well, they're wearing their safety
00:27:48
suits. They're wearing the PE required, I guess. So, that's good. They're wearing like like
00:27:52
>> airtight toxinproof safety suits. >> Kind of like what you wore during during
00:27:56
CO. >> Well, I was just going to say during CO, we wore those. >> I remember seeing you in your full garb.
00:28:02
>> It's crazy. And it sucks. like you're sweat very necessary won't ever knock it
00:28:08
but damn you sweat in those you sweat and it's hard to do things and it's like you don't get to be as precise as you
00:28:15
want to be cuz you're in this really bulky thing and >> we had like special like bubbles like
00:28:20
plastic bubbles that would go over the person's head so you had to like reach into the bubble to do the the brain
00:28:25
removal and it was not great. >> Wow. >> Yeah. CO was a [ __ ] time for for uh autopsies. It's a [ __ ] time for
00:28:33
autopsies. And you're also just a wild [ __ ] >> This is the moral wild [ __ ] You're
00:28:40
like, we'd have to reach into the bubble to do the brain. Like she's just like, I'll take a medium iced regular. Like,
00:28:45
oh, okay. Totally. It was crazy. >> Damn. I know. Like I said, you're a wild bridge.
00:28:51
>> It's pretty standard otherwise, but like you're not. >> You had a bubble in some crazy suit and
00:28:56
it's harder. >> Uh, but yeah. So although the situation that occurred in the year was highly
00:29:01
unusual, it was in fact not the first time it had happened also. Um so like everybody going down like that. Well,
00:29:08
several years earlier, emergency room workers in Perth, Australia were kind of similarly affected to a less dramatic
00:29:17
extent, I will say. Uh during the examination of a man who had uh killed himself by ingesting weevil poison.
00:29:24
>> Oh [ __ ] >> Yeah. With that in mind, so there there was some kind of precedent for this. I
00:29:29
won't say it's a direct >> precedent, but there is some kind of precedent. Yeah,
00:29:34
>> with that in mind, the pathologists expected to find something in Gloria Ramirez's body that could wreak similar
00:29:40
havoc, like an organo phosphate pest pesticide, but neither the search of her apartment or the autopsy turned up any
00:29:48
chemicals like that. >> Okay. Also, although she had been diagnosed with the advanced stage cancer
00:29:54
only recently, she hadn't started chemotherapy and had only been taking copazine, a drug used to control nausea.
00:30:02
>> Okay. >> So, she wasn't even on any like the crazy like chemo drugs, you know what I
00:30:06
mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> As the evidence collected during the autopsy was being analyzed, Gloria's
00:30:11
body was put back into airtight storage and county officials continued the investigation. The family, meanwhile,
00:30:18
was left in kind of a limbo state, which must have been really hard. They still had no explanation for what the [ __ ] had
00:30:25
happened. >> And with the investigation still open, they couldn't bury Gloria and and start
00:30:30
the grieving process. >> That was tough. And I imagine that like somebody was like close by when all the
00:30:37
chaos was happening in the ER. And that must have been really traumatic. >> That must have been really traumatic.
00:30:41
Now, by midappril, the Ramirez family hired an attorney and filed a request for a court order that would allow for
00:30:47
an independent pathologist to conduct another autopsy. Good for them. >> Also, others in the Riverside community
00:30:54
started to wonder whether the county's refusal to release their findings or update the public was perhaps an
00:31:00
indication of a cover up. >> That was them wondering that, saying that's what it was.
00:31:05
>> I could see why people would be curious like that. Uh, Robert Schwarz, an environmental attorney, told the LA
00:31:10
Times, "The county is destroying the single most important piece of evidence. They're destroying Gloria Ramirez's
00:31:16
remains by having delayed things this long." Tom Dantis, a representative from Riverside County, responded to the
00:31:23
public pressure and said, "This investigation isn't as simple as testing a hypothesis by checking for the
00:31:28
presence of a particular chemical. The testing that is being performed is designed to rule out the thousands of
00:31:34
possible chemical compounds and narrow the focus of the investigation. You can kind of see both sides here.
00:31:40
>> Yeah, you really can. But he and but he couldn't provide any additional information at that time.
00:31:45
>> But it's also like if you don't have the answer, what do you have to say? Yeah.
00:31:48
Now, while the county struggled under increasing pressure from the public, the evidence and samples collected from the
00:31:54
autopsy were sent to the forensic science center at the Lawrence Liverour National Laboratory, which is a former
00:32:00
nuclear weapons production and testings lab that was transformed and rebranded in the early 90s to focus on, you know,
00:32:07
areas of natural sciences. >> Okay. The technicians at the forensic science center had expected to find the
00:32:13
culprit in gases contained in the headsp space of the containers, if not in the liver itself. But all they found was
00:32:21
nitrogen, oxygen, carbon dioxide, and argon. Normal constituents of air. >> Yeah.
00:32:27
>> Just nothing out of the ordinary. >> Right. Among the mysteries the technicians at the lab were able to
00:32:32
solve though was the ammonia smell that many of the emergency room personnel noticed emanating from Gloria's body and
00:32:39
the blood that was taken. >> According to Brian Anderson, a director at the forensic science center, the odor
00:32:45
was most likely caused by Gloria's body breaking down that anti-nausea medication that she was taking at the
00:32:51
time. >> Oh, okay. That's interesting. >> That is interesting. Ultimately, the team at the center was able to identify
00:32:56
and explain many of the unusual compounds found in the blood and tissue samples submitted by the county. In
00:33:03
fact, the only thing Anderson and his team couldn't explain was the heavy presence of dimethyl sulfone, which is a
00:33:10
naturally occurring chemical compound found in everything from plant and marine life to food and beauty products.
00:33:17
Oh, okay. As far as Anderson knew, this compound was a relatively harmless chemical, and it really couldn't have
00:33:24
caused the damaging effects that people in the ER were suffering from that night. So, he returned to the Riverside
00:33:29
Coroner's office and reported his findings, confirming that no toxins were found in Gloria Ramirez's body. So,
00:33:36
anyone calling her the toxic woman is [ __ ] stupid. >> It's not real. Exactly. [Music]
00:33:54
So the technicians at the forensic science center had done as thorough an analysis as possible in 1994. So
00:34:00
Anderson's findings were more or less the final word. Despite having no explanations for what had happened at
00:34:06
Riverside General, county officials were confident there was no existing threat at the hospital. And the strange case of
00:34:12
Gloria Ramirez was effectively clo closed, at least as far as the county was concerned.
00:34:18
>> Okay. >> The coroner's office released the body to the family in late April. And Gloria
00:34:22
Ramirez was buried at uh Olivewood Cemetery in Riverside on April 27th, 1994, >> almost two full months after she passed
00:34:30
away. Like that's tough on that family. So, if Riverside County officials had hoped that releasing Gloria's body would
00:34:36
put an end to the chaos and the mystery surrounding this case, they were definitely disappointed in the weeks
00:34:42
after that. >> Yeah, the family still pressed the coroner's office for answers, rightfully
00:34:46
so. That and they were unfortunately never going to really get any. And in August, Dr. Gorchinsky filed a $6
00:34:54
million lawsuit against Riverside General Hospital, alleging that conditions at the hospital and failure
00:34:59
of safety protocols had left her with more than one debilitating condition preventing her from working. And she was
00:35:06
a 33year-old doctor, >> right? >> According to her lawyer, Russell Cuzman, the suit was filed in part to compel the
00:35:13
hospital and the county to release whatever information they had related to the case. He said later to reporters,
00:35:19
"Clearly, she's the victim of some kind of toxic poisoning. The question is where did it come from and who is
00:35:24
responsible?" Now, officials from the county and Riverside Hospital immediately took a
00:35:30
defensive position, contracted contacting the California Department of Health and Human Services to undertake a
00:35:37
study to determine the cause of the symptoms. So, they were like, "We're going to try to figure this out." After
00:35:43
reviewing the medical information from most of those affected by it that night and interviewing 34 of the staff members
00:35:49
working at the hospital that evening, the DHS concluded the symptoms experienced by those who came in contact
00:35:54
with Gloria was a case of mass psychoggenic illness, a situation in which symptoms of physical illness are
00:36:03
experienced by large groups of people for psychological reasons. >> Right. That's kind of what I was
00:36:09
thinking. >> Exactly. Now, although the study allowed for the possibility that a small number
00:36:14
of those affected, particularly those who came in close contact with Gloria Ramirez's body, were quote exposed to a
00:36:20
poisonous substance, they did not know the origin of the poison. It's important to note that mass psychoggenic illness
00:36:27
tends to be applied with bias, though, and is ascribed far more often to women than it is to men.
00:36:35
>> Um, and >> a lot of women went down. >> That's kind of the case here. Yeah. Now,
00:36:41
so, so maybe it wasn't necessarily that is what you're kind of implying. >> Nobody. Yeah. Nobody really knows here.
00:36:47
So, as one would expect, the county's official explanation of mass psychoggenic illness was uh poorly
00:36:53
received. >> I bet, especially by those directly affected. When Riverside ER nurse Moren
00:37:00
Welch read the report, she went to the Forensic Science Center and implored Anderson to take a second look at the
00:37:05
case cuz she was like, "This is bullshit." Yeah. And I mean, you can kind of understand why people thought
00:37:09
that just because this is like such an insane case. >> Yeah, of course. But the people who
00:37:14
experienced it are pissed. >> Exactly what I was just going to say. Now, upon review, it was discovered that
00:37:19
what was initially identified as dimethyl sulfone, remember the like the thing that wouldn't have caused issues
00:37:26
in a lot of cosmetics and everything. Yeah. >> Was in fact dimethyl suloxide or DMSO.
00:37:33
The only difference between those two chemicals is that DMSO has one oxygen atom, not two. So that changes a
00:37:41
compound completely. >> Yeah. >> Oh god, not physics. >> Let's talk about it. >> Chemistry. Lol.
00:37:47
>> I was like, no, it's not. In fact, >> I was like I was like chemistry. I was bad at both.
00:37:54
>> Fortunately, it's not physic. But unfortunately, it is chemistry. >> Organic chemistry, in fact. Boo. So
00:38:01
since the 1960s, DMSO has been sold as a gel solvent used in industrial cleaning
00:38:07
products. >> What? >> But it's also used by some as a kind of folk remedy for pain relief
00:38:15
>> and its occasional use in the treatment of interstatial cyitis, excuse me, a condition causing painful urinary tract
00:38:22
lesions in women. >> Ouch. The presence of DMSO would explain the oily sheen discovered on Gloria
00:38:30
Ramirez's body, assuming that she may have used it for pain relief, >> like a topical pain relief,
00:38:37
>> right? Because she's >> This would also This would also explain the aroma of garlic described by several
00:38:45
of the workers present in the room with Ramirez because these are both hallmarks
00:38:49
of this product. >> Oh wow. I mean, I love the smell of garlic. >> I do too. But I don't love a toxic
00:38:54
thing. >> The presence of DMSO alone didn't explain the symptoms supposedly caused
00:38:59
by exposure to Gloria though. Okay, that alone. >> It was only when Anderson checked the
00:39:04
chemical index text to review DMSO that he noticed an adjacent entry for a different chemical that seemed the most
00:39:12
likely explanation for what had caused the medical mystery surrounding the death of Gloria Ramirez.
00:39:17
>> Okay. >> Dimethyl sulfate. We have we there's so many dimethyls. There is in most cases
00:39:24
dimethyl sulfate is used in small quantities in the manufacturing. You see I'm like you're nerding out so
00:39:33
hard over there. >> I have my finger up. She's like in most cases with her little pointer finger.
00:39:39
I'm like hey I just wanted to point out I have I could see your face immediately
00:39:44
when my finger went up. I was like think it's so funny. So in most cases, figure
00:39:51
it up again. Dimethyl sulfate is used in small quantities in the manufacturing of
00:39:55
dyes, perfumes, and certain drugs. But the chemical has an unpleasant history as one of the main components of this
00:40:03
thing called nerve gas used in chemical warfare. >> Not not more chemical warfare,
00:40:10
>> like dyes, perfumes, certain drugs. Oh, also nerve gas. >> Nerve gas. I'm thinking that whole thing
00:40:17
that the after experience or kind of legit, >> huh? >> Or >> Yeah. Uh kind of very unpleasant history
00:40:24
for sure. In vapor form, dimethyl sulfate can quote kill the cells in exposed tissues such as the eyes, mouth,
00:40:32
and lungs. >> Yeah. When absorbed into the body, dimethyl sulfate causes convulsions,
00:40:36
delirium, paralysis, coma, and delayed damage to the kidneys, liver, and heart. >> Did somebody have kidney failure?
00:40:44
>> Um uh Gloria did. >> Oh, Gloria did. Okay. Given its uses and the knowledge and skill required to
00:40:50
handle it, no one suspected dimethyl sulfate in the case of Gloria Ramirez cuz that's like [ __ ] chemical
00:40:56
warfare. Like no. After all, why would like a mother of two, housewife, just normal everyday human being? Why would
00:41:07
she have come in contact with such a volatile chemical? >> Yeah. >> Like where would she have come in
00:41:11
contact with that? >> I don't know. But just as dimethyl sulfone can be transformed into dimethyl
00:41:18
uh the DMSO yes compound with the addition of just one oxygen molecule doesn't take a lot to transform it.
00:41:26
Dimethyl sulfate can be created by adding one more oxygen model molecule to DMSO. Oh,
00:41:34
>> so it's very it's so delicate. Yeah. And it transforms a fairly innocuous chemical into a literal toxic gas
00:41:44
capable of killing a person >> like that. That's so scary. One extra oxygen molecule.
00:41:51
>> That reminds me of an uh episode of Below Deck where I forget which >> I'm very interested to see.
00:41:56
>> No, it's actually funny. I forget which Chief Stew it was and which like lower
00:41:59
stew it was, but she kept mixing cleaning products that they were telling her not to mix.
00:42:04
>> Oh, [ __ ] no. She was like, "You're literally going to create mustard gas and blow the boat up
00:42:09
and it's so easy to do." >> Yeah. They were like, and they told her a couple times and finally she had to go
00:42:13
to the captain. She was like, "Ah, hey." >> Yeah. It's like, "Sorry, >> you have to be," and I'm telling you
00:42:19
right now, be so careful with that [ __ ] >> When you are cleaning, do not mix [ __ ]
00:42:24
Have a open window. It's so easy for people to get so sick from that [ __ ] And I don't want any of you getting
00:42:31
sick, so be careful. >> No, we love you. Just use um Oh, [ __ ] I'm trying to think of the lady on the
00:42:36
commercials. I love her. >> What's the What's the floral start with P? I love that woman on the commercials.
00:42:42
>> Palm Olive. >> No, Pinesaw. >> Pineaw. >> I love pineaw. >> I was thinking pine saw, but I said palm
00:42:48
olive. >> No, that's actually funny because my brain was doing the same thing. >> I smell pines while I said palm olive.
00:42:54
>> [ __ ] I love pineaw. I mix it with warm water. Do you think that's okay? >> That's fine. Okay.
00:42:59
>> Yeah, you're okay there. >> All right, cool. Um, so yeah, be careful everybody. But because they had taken
00:43:04
the case pro bono, >> which is pretty great, Anderson and his team had to work nights and weekends
00:43:10
over an extended period of time before they finally arrived at the best possible explanation for what the [ __ ]
00:43:16
had happened at Riverside General. >> Yeah. The team theorized that like many cancer patients, Gloria Ramirez had
00:43:23
turned to DMSO, the one that wasn't okay. Yeah. To help manage her cancer related pain, which would account for
00:43:29
the oily sheen on her skin. >> And you said that was okay. >> That was okay. When the paramedics
00:43:34
placed the oxygen mask on her in the ambulance, >> it added a >> Gloria's bloodstream was flooded with
00:43:41
oxygen. >> Oh. creating the highly unusual set of [ __ ] circumstances required to
00:43:47
transform the DMSO into dimethyl sulfate. >> Holy >> blew my [ __ ] mind when I heard that.
00:43:55
>> No, my mind is Wow. >> Because they did exactly what they were supposed to do. They put oxygen on her
00:44:02
cuz she wasn't breathing. They did nothing wrong. Yeah, cuz they didn't how would they
00:44:05
>> would have no idea that that is not a common question that you have to ask someone like, "Do you have DMSO on you?"
00:44:12
And also, she wasn't able to really respond to a lot anyways. >> Yeah. >> So, they didn't do anything wrong. This
00:44:16
was not them being like negligent. >> No. >> But it's just a wildly unusual and freak
00:44:23
[ __ ] set of circumstanced as many people as it did because it's Did it like spread through the How does
00:44:32
that work actually? Well, her like so many of the ER staff went down because her her blood was now
00:44:39
filled with toxic gas essentially because her bloodstream was now flooded with oxygen
00:44:45
>> and that added the extra oxygen molecule to DMSO to turn it into that essential
00:44:52
nerve death. So like even holding a vial of her blood, it could kind of like go through the vial.
00:44:57
>> Well, it it's going to be exposed to the air somehow because it's going to be
00:45:01
transferred into the vial. So there is going to be some kind of >> I see >> you know and she's even just from that
00:45:08
little pin prick to insert the catheter to put the syringe in. >> It went into the air
00:45:12
>> exposure to the air like that it's vapor essentially like it can travel >> but I it just blew my [ __ ] mind
00:45:20
shocking. >> What are the goddamn odds of this? >> I would say they're very um insane.
00:45:26
>> Yeah. So the chemical reaction well pushed. They're they're I was like in my head I would just say they're low and
00:45:33
then I was like yeah no they're not high but I questioned myself if they are. I was like they're crazy.
00:45:38
>> So the chemical reaction would also explain the presence of the white or off-white like manila is what they
00:45:44
described crystals observed in the blood samples taken in the ER. When the blood
00:45:49
sample was drawn, small amounts of the lethal gas, like I said, leaked from the syringe, which explains why those
00:45:57
closest in proximity, Kain, Welch, and Gorchinsky were the most affected. Oh, cuz they all had and as they went out
00:46:05
further, people experienced considerably less symptoms of exposure. >> So, it would be the same as chemical
00:46:12
warfare. >> This is horrible, but incredibly fascinating. And just what the [ __ ] are
00:46:18
the odds that all this would happen? It's just like it really is wild. >> It really is an episode of [ __ ]
00:46:23
House. I'm like, has House done an episode on this? >> I'm about to Google it. I'll let you
00:46:28
know. >> It would be impossible for Anderson and his team to recreate the exact circumstances necessary to like
00:46:34
concretely prove this theory. So, when they submitted the report to the coroner in the case, it was only so they could
00:46:39
get the county's feedback. Nevertheless, the county the Riverside County coroner's office accepted the Forensic
00:46:45
Science C Center's explanation because it makes so much [ __ ] sense and released the report as the final word on
00:46:52
the matter. Although some people were skeptical of the results, pointing out that a reaction like that would have
00:46:58
required an enormous amount of DMSO, Oregon State toxicologist Frank Dos pointed out in that stage of fighting
00:47:05
for her life, Ramirez may have really overloaded on it. >> Yeah. creating the precise set of
00:47:11
circumstances under which the chain reaction could occur. And I fully believe that. I think this is just a
00:47:16
freak >> set of circumstances that absolutely no one is at fault for. Totally. I mean,
00:47:21
you think of like the products that are available that you don't realize how like dangerous they can be. I just I'm
00:47:27
29 years old. I just found out that you can't put Vicks under your nose overnight.
00:47:31
>> Yeah. That's honestly idea like that is something we used to do when we were like younger. Yeah. And and it's these
00:47:37
home remedy things, >> but when you start looking into them, you realize how dangerous this [ __ ] can
00:47:42
be. >> Yeah. I mean, >> I'm so glad I'm related to you because you're so sciency.
00:47:46
>> I would have no idea. >> It's scary. And even things like um like dry shampoo, aerosol dry shampoo.
00:47:52
>> I know >> the fact that that's been connected to so much cancer and different like stuff.
00:47:56
>> It's so scary. >> You're better off with like the really natural like pump powder ones,
00:48:02
>> but you also have to be careful of those. So like be really careful when you're picking this [ __ ] cuz you just
00:48:06
don't want to put yourself in that position you know. >> Now for the last you know over 25 years
00:48:14
Gloria Ramirez has been called the toxic lady. Someone whose existence was only significant in death essentially
00:48:20
>> because of like what people said about her. >> The curiosity of course is only natural.
00:48:24
I mean >> it's a fascinating like I just said >> the circumstances of her death are
00:48:28
bizarre. They're incredibly complex, easily lending themselves to fantastical interpretations of it. But from the
00:48:36
moment she died, Gloria's family had to face a seemingly endless stream of reporters, media personalities, and
00:48:43
headlines that accused Gloria, who was not here to defend herself, of everything from PCP addiction to being
00:48:51
an alien. I'm sorry. Are you [ __ ] kidding me? >> Yeah. If you're rolling up to somebody's
00:48:57
house as a reporter, like listen, I get it. Reporters are a thing. If you're rolling up to somebody's house who has
00:49:03
just lost their family member and asking if they're a [ __ ] alien, you >> go [ __ ] yourself.
00:49:09
>> Re-evaluate your [ __ ] life choices. >> Re-evaluate your entire existence as a
00:49:14
human. Are you joking? And PCP addiction. Like, what? >> Where do we even get that from?
00:49:20
>> It's just grasping at sensational headlines. That's all it is. >> So shitty. It's outrageous. I mean, the
00:49:26
speculation was ridiculous and it obscured her humanity. >> Uh, truly, >> Gloria Ramirez was a single mother of
00:49:34
two young children. She was described as quote, "A simple homemaker." According to Reverend Brian Taylor, who spoke at
00:49:40
her graveside, >> she was also a sister, a girlfriend, and a member of the community whose life was
00:49:47
tragically cut short very quickly by cancer. >> Yeah. Like so many of us, her life was
00:49:52
just ordinary. Hard like just a just a life. >> Yeah. >> Hardly befitting the science fiction
00:49:58
narrative that she is so often involuntarily inserted into. >> Yeah. When Gloria was finally laid to
00:50:05
rest on April 27th, more than two months after her death, it was under the invasive eye of journalists,
00:50:11
photographers, a whole host of people who were shouting questions at the grieving family
00:50:16
>> at the funeral, >> setting a disrespectful and thoughtless tone that honestly permeated her legacy
00:50:22
for more than two decades at this point. >> Yeah. Get the [ __ ] away from people's
00:50:25
gravesides unless you're related or people like get out of here. In a brief article for the Los Angeles Times, Peter
00:50:31
King's summation of the funeral is something that we should probably all keep in mind today, they wrote,
00:50:38
"Speaking well of the dead, allowing them a final dignity is a basic human courtesy. Gloria Ramirez just got
00:50:45
cheated." Yeah, she absolutely did. And it's so true because I fully believe the theory that the
00:50:54
forensic science center came up with anderson and his team. >> It makes so much sense
00:50:59
>> just from a scientific freak set of circumstances that can happen but obviously don't happen often.
00:51:05
>> Yeah. No, right. >> And no one is at fault. It was no one was doing anything that they shouldn't
00:51:10
have been doing. >> No. >> Gloria was in pain. She was doing what she was probably she might have been who
00:51:16
knows maybe she was grown up with that remedy. You know what I mean? Like was just like [ __ ] Vicks under my nose.
00:51:22
>> Yeah. Like she was just doing what she had to do to get relief which any of us
00:51:27
none of us who have not experienced cancer like personally >> can speak to because I can't imagine
00:51:33
that. >> No. >> And the paramedics were just doing their job getting oxygen to her brain and her
00:51:39
lungs when she was losing it rapidly. >> Right. doing their job and the ER staff
00:51:44
was doing their job and it's like and it just nobody did anything wrong. Every it
00:51:49
just was a [ __ ] set of circumstances that happened to fall into an even shittier one.
00:51:55
>> Yeah. 100%. >> But Gloria Ramirez is not the toxic lady. No, she's a like you just said,
00:52:01
she was like a family member of many people and a friend, >> a friend, a sister, a girlfriend, a
00:52:06
community member, and somebody who got sick in a [ __ ] set of circumstances happened.
00:52:13
>> Yeah, that's it. But it's >> Let's give people dignity. Yeah, it's more fascinating what happened to make
00:52:20
all of that occur than it is to sit here and call her the toxic woman and say that it was something
00:52:25
>> ask if she alen or like things >> like something naturally occurring in her body or something like that. Like
00:52:31
it's just [ __ ] organic chemistry really. >> Gone arai. >> Wow. >> But that's the tale of Gloria Ramirez
00:52:39
and I hope her family has gotten some kind of relief over the the past couple of decades here.
00:52:45
>> Yeah. >> Because I would hope so. And here we are to set the record straight. She's not a
00:52:49
toxic woman. >> She's not a toxic woman. >> Get the [ __ ] out. >> She's Gloria Ramirez.
00:52:53
>> That really was a fascinating case that had heard of it like but I did not know
00:52:57
everything that went into that. >> Yeah. I had only heard her called toxic lady.
00:53:02
>> Me too. So >> yeah. Wow. All right. Well, thanks for listening. We hope you keep listening
00:53:09
and we hope you keep it weird. I'm not so that you're rolling up to people's houses or their grave sites asking
00:53:15
stupid questions. I had to sing during the episode and here it is. Yeah. Don't do that. Don't do that. I'll punch you.
00:53:21
Don't do that. I won't actually punch you, but I'll like metaphorically punch you.
00:53:25
>> Yeah. [Music] [Music] [Music]