00:00:00
Hey weirdos. I'm Ash. >> And I'm Elina. >> And this is Morbid. [music] [music] >> It's morbid.
00:00:20
>> It's posth holiday morbid. >> It is. >> Are you exhaust? >> I'm exhaust. [music]
00:00:25
>> Are you exhaust? I am car exhaust is what I am. [laughter] I'm car exhausted. I feel like car
00:00:32
exhausted. >> I'm tired, man. >> Yeah, I can't wake up holidaying, you know. >> Yeah, but I have a maple pecan latte in
00:00:41
front of me. Shout out to Got a cup of >> I got a cup of maple pecan. Shout out to
00:00:46
uh >> espresso. No espresso for life. >> No espresso. >> No espresso. [laughter]
00:00:52
Nespresso for life. >> Honestly, I love espresso. I really like the This isn't an ad. Uh they don't pay
00:00:59
us. I We just have one. >> They did. I think Here's the thing. I don't know if like one of you knows that
00:01:03
we love Nespresso and you sent it to the PO box or if Nespresso sent it >> sent us Nespresso
00:01:09
>> with no notes. No notes. >> So, thanks to you guys or thanks to Nespresso. Nebulous individual
00:01:16
>> who gave us Nespresso cuz I'm really obsessed with the um pistachio and vanilla double espresso.
00:01:23
>> Yes, I love that one as well. limited edition. >> So, I think I'm going to buy stock in it
00:01:27
and literally have an entire garage filled [laughter] with it. >> I think I bought 34 of that one.
00:01:33
>> I love that. >> I think in over there there's like >> Yeah, we hidden packages.
00:01:37
>> I will say anytime I want it, Mikey provides it to me. So, I think we have a stockpile [laughter] somewhere.
00:01:43
>> Mikey bought some and then they would only allow you to buy a certain amount.
00:01:47
So, then I bought more cuz I also really like that flavor. So, we do have a stockpile cuz I have I have yet to find
00:01:53
myself wanting it and not being able to find it. >> That's one thing about Mikey. If you
00:01:56
tell Mikey that you like something, he will buy you 38 million of it. Like, I love Christmas tree cakes. I've loved
00:02:04
Christmas tree cakes. The vanilla ones. >> Yep. Of course. >> Since the dawn of time.
00:02:07
>> They're so good. >> Um, they've been around my entire life. >> Since the dawn of time.
00:02:12
>> Since the dawn of time, essentially. And he knows I love them. and he knows that
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they start getting hard to find very easily. >> See, I didn't realize that until last
00:02:21
year how sought after they are. >> They're like those Pillsberry cookies that have like,
00:02:27
>> you know, different holiday things on them. Like the sugar cookies. >> Every Halloween the pumpkin ones sell
00:02:33
out and you can't find them anywhere for like weeks before Halloween. Christmas too, like they always do. It's the same
00:02:40
thing. You just can't find them anywhere. So Mikey bought me like eight boxes of them.
00:02:45
>> Yeah, he's a [ __ ] dude. >> There's just a whole bag of these things >> and he got me the brownies, which I
00:02:50
love. The Christmas tree brownies. >> He's just He really provides for us. >> He's not in the office today and I think
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I miss him. >> I miss him a lot. >> I think I'm I think I miss you, Michael. [laughter]
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>> You're going to edit this, but I just want you to know that >> I think I miss you. [laughter]
00:03:06
>> Don't edit it. >> Are you guys okay? >> Leave it in there. >> Oh, no. I mean, you're going to edit
00:03:09
this episode, so like you'll hear that I miss. >> Oh, I thought you meant he'll take it
00:03:12
out. I was like, he won't take it out. >> No, don't take out my message of you. No
00:03:15
love will be taken out. What do you got for me today, Red? >> Well, today I have I haven't done an old
00:03:20
timey case in a while. >> No, actually, it's been a long time. >> It's been a minute.
00:03:23
>> Okay. >> So, this is an old timey case. It's Emma Cunningham and the murder of Harvey
00:03:28
Berdell. >> Okay. >> Uh, it's and very interesting one. It takes place in New York. It's in the
00:03:34
1800s. >> Sorry, I just cracked all of my >> I know. Like, why did you >> I wasn't thinking of the fact that we're
00:03:39
[laughter] recording a live a live pod right now. >> It was like crack. >> It was literally And then my wrist
00:03:45
cracked [laughter] by accident. >> You're like, tell me about it. Crack crack. >> Like, let me just make this ASMR. Sorry.
00:03:50
>> Yeah. This is very 1800's New York. There's a lot of twists and turns in this. It's not There's murder. There's a
00:03:58
lot of fraud. There's a lot of lies. And there at the end, you're going to be like, "What the fuck?"
00:04:03
>> It's just It's a crazy one. >> All right, brother. So, let's start off by talking about who Emma is.
00:04:09
>> Who's Emma? >> Cuz she seems to be the the focus here. >> Uh >> oh. >> Emma Augusta Hemstead was born in
00:04:15
Manhattan, New York. >> Baller name and baller place to be born. >> She was born on August 15th, 1818. What
00:04:22
does that make her? Aaliyah. >> Uh she was born to Christopher and Sarah Hempstead. Uh they were devout
00:04:28
Methodists who raised their children in a very strictly religious household. >> Fun.
00:04:32
>> Um a lot of these [laughter] stories have that in there. Um, religion was definitely a fundamental part of most
00:04:40
families at the time. So, it's not like they were like this unique outlier or anything, but Christopher and Sarah
00:04:45
Hemstead were com more committed than most. >> Okay. >> Um, they impressed upon their children
00:04:51
the three fundamentals of a morally righteous life, which like righteous, >> totally righteous,
00:04:57
>> not like righteous, but like righteous >> righteous. [laughter] Um, piety, thrift, and restraint. What's
00:05:03
piety again? I think that's like you you're pious. >> Not you using the actual word to talk.
00:05:09
>> I did that thing where I'm like it means this piety. >> Piety is like purity I think maybe or
00:05:15
>> the quality of being religious or reverent. >> There you go. >> A belief or point of view that is
00:05:20
accepted with reverence. >> Yeah. Is that I couldn't figure out how to explain like I'm like religious like
00:05:26
it just means like >> Okay. So it means like you pray and you go to church and you
00:05:31
>> you do the things >> you devote yourself to a higher power. You do all of the actions that are
00:05:35
required of your religion. >> You're full of religion. >> So, you need to be pious. You need to be
00:05:39
thrifty. >> Thrifty. Okay. I can thrifty. >> And you need restraint. >> Unfortunately, I don't be having any.
00:05:45
>> I guess I'm out. [laughter] >> Like I just said, I will eat 64 Christmas tree brownies. [laughter] I
00:05:51
have a bag of Christmas tree cakes that >> Yeah. tell me that I can't go by that
00:05:56
one. >> So, sorry. Um, according to author Benjamin Feldman, who we have linked in
00:06:00
the show notes, Emma learned the lessons well, but she fell short in practical application. That's to say basically
00:06:07
that she recognized the significance of these like core tenants. Um, if you want
00:06:12
to be righteous, righteous, >> righteous. >> But she really wanted a life of comfort.
00:06:18
She wanted a life of opulence. And she wanted a life of luxury. Honey, who can blame her? She wasn't looking to be
00:06:24
thrifty and restraint at being a part of her life. >> Now, Christopher Hemstead earned a
00:06:31
modest living as a rope maker, which is like >> a rope maker. >> Never came across that career field yet.
00:06:36
>> No. >> In all of our cases, rope the box. >> Uh he sold his wares to the sailors and
00:06:42
dock workers who were found on the shores of the East River. >> That's cool. >> When Emma was still young, her dad moved
00:06:47
the family across the river to Brooklyn. Uh it was at that point it was still Brooklyn was like a pretty small village
00:06:54
at that point and he found a pretty lucrative business in the trades on Fulton Street. Although the move was
00:07:01
>> basically intended to improve the lives of the family. You know he thought he
00:07:04
could get more work, all that good stuff. Feldman notes that following the move to Brooklyn there is no record of
00:07:10
Emma participating in any formal religious activities. >> She says [ __ ] a whole bunch of that.
00:07:16
>> Yeah, [ __ ] that. There could be several reasons for this. Like, you know, maybe
00:07:21
she was present, but she wasn't documented as being there. Like, that could have been it. It's not like we
00:07:25
have like, you know, it was the 1800s. Documentation was a little wy. >> Maybe she forgot to sign in.
00:07:30
>> But Feldman suggests as the eldest daughter, quote, "Demands were undoubtedly placed upon Emma to care for
00:07:37
her younger brothers and sisters." So, that could be it. >> So, it probably made her want to break
00:07:42
away from the family sooner as well, cuz she had a lot of responsibility placed on her.
00:07:46
>> Yeah. In 1837, when Emma was 19 years old, she met and soon married George Cunningham. He was a businessman 22
00:07:54
years older than her. >> Christopher and Sarah Hemstead were horrified by their daughter's choice of
00:08:00
husband. >> Oh no. >> Not only because he was not Methodist, >> but also because he made his living
00:08:07
manufacturing. Are you ready? >> Not ropes. >> Licker [gasps] was a bootleger. They said that's an
00:08:16
evil trade. >> It's a disgusting >> evil trade. >> Said not the IPAs. >> That is not righteous.
00:08:22
>> Not the potatoes. They're supposed to be mashed. >> Not used for vodka. >> Well, and to make matters worse, as far
00:08:28
as they could tell, George seemed to live his life in complete opposition of the religious values that they were
00:08:34
trying to teach. >> He was out here hailing Satan, >> and they were worried that he was going
00:08:38
to lure Emma into a lifestyle of just debauchery. >> She was just going to get drunk. So
00:08:43
following the marriage, they settled into a rented townhouse on Irving Place in the Union Square neighborhood of
00:08:48
Manhattan. Uh, and they lived there, you know, a pleasant upper class life together. And just two years later, Emma
00:08:55
gave birth to her first child, Margaret Augusta >> Mausle, >> who Mausle, who was followed by Helen in
00:09:02
1842 >> and Georgina in 1844. >> Georgina, love that name. So following the birth of Georgina, Emma discovered
00:09:10
that although he earned a pretty good income, George wasn't uh great with money.
00:09:16
>> Oh. >> And in 19 1846, they could no longer afford their like upper class lifestyle
00:09:22
and they were forced to move back to the more modest Brooklyn neighborhood where
00:09:26
Emma grew up. >> Oh no. >> Which is not great. >> And her parents were like, "Told you
00:09:30
so." >> Yeah. Just a few months after moving to Brooklyn, Emma gave birth to the
00:09:34
couple's fourth child, George, who was followed in 1847 by their fifth and final child, William.
00:09:41
>> That's a lot of babies. A >> lot of babies. The financial downturn they endured in 1846,
00:09:47
definitely exacerbated a very clear existing rift between George and Emma. It began a year or so before that when
00:09:55
Emma realized George's business success wasn't as guaranteed as she had previously believed. Yeah, sounds like
00:10:00
>> she had kind of been bamboozled a little bit. Also, George's failures in the distilling business and other ventures
00:10:06
led to an early termination of the real estate agreement set up by his father, which was intended to last several
00:10:13
decades and provide income for his sisters, which caused additional strife in the family.
00:10:18
>> Oh, [ __ ] >> So, all kinds of family shenanigans. >> They got married and it just everything
00:10:22
exploded. It sounds like >> it was like he he had like this huge facade up and then when they got married
00:10:28
it just all crumbled down and she was like, "Oh, [ __ ] Now I have five kids with you."
00:10:33
>> Yeah. Attached myself to a sinking ship. >> Now, out of desperation, George decided
00:10:37
to make one last play for fortune in 19 1849, sorry. And he joined the thousands
00:10:42
of men venturing out to California in search of gold. >> The gold rush. >> The gold rush.
00:10:48
Unfortunately, he returned to Brooklyn less than a year later, broke and having failed at yet another business venture.
00:10:55
>> When he came back to Brooklyn, his relationship with Emma was really just like barely there.
00:11:01
>> Yeah. >> Uh she wasn't actively courting other men. She did have very little love for
00:11:07
her husband, though. Like >> I mean, at that kind of at that rate, I get it. >> Things seemed like they were really bad.
00:11:13
Things only got worse when George began exhibiting symptoms of a quote tropical disease
00:11:19
believed to have been contracted on his return trip from California. >> Oh man, the hits just keep coming. Poor
00:11:26
guy. >> They managed to scrape by with what little income they could find until June
00:11:30
1st, 1854 when George finally succumbed to his illness. >> He died. >> Yeah. In an attempt to safeguard his
00:11:38
family's well-being though, George Cunningham took out two insurance policies just before leaving for
00:11:43
California. >> Okay. >> They totaled $10,000. >> Good money. >> But with the money put into a real
00:11:48
estate trust managed by George's lawyer, Emma was barely able to support herself
00:11:53
and the children with her monthly income from the trust. Also, having become estranged from her own family after her
00:12:00
father died several years earlier, Emma had no social safety net that she could turn to for any kind of financial
00:12:06
support or emotional support. >> Any kind of support. Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz regardless of like what their
00:12:11
relationship was, like it's her husband dying and the father of her children. >> Yeah. Her five children that she's now
00:12:16
alone to raise. >> She was determined though to keep her family from becoming destitute. And she
00:12:22
wanted not only that, she didn't want to just keep everything going. She wanted to rejoin the upper class in Manhattan.
00:12:28
>> She got a taste of that [ __ ] >> Yeah. She said, "I'mma find a new husband."
00:12:32
>> She said, "It's better up there." >> Yep. And she said, "Let me go find a husband that can get me that.
00:12:36
>> Go get him, girl. >> Five kids, man. Like, go get go after it. >> Go get him, Tiger."
00:12:41
>> Now, at 36 years old, Emma was solidly middle-aged. She was middle-aged at this
00:12:47
point and knew very well that her best prospects of finding a new husband would be probably among
00:12:53
>> the widowers of her same age basically. The problem was that in 1854, Brooklyn
00:13:00
was still, like I said before, a pretty small village and it was built on marshy
00:13:04
wetlands populated by what Feldman describes as quote coarse and uneducated. Oh,
00:13:11
>> hardly the type that would want to or even be capable of pulling her and her children up to the upper class.
00:13:16
>> Yeah. >> Uh instead, she looked across the river, of course, to Manhattan. >> I was going to say, go to Manhattan.
00:13:22
>> Yeah, you got to go to Manhattan. >> Go to the big city. >> Yeah. She found herself in the home at
00:13:26
one point of Dr. Harvey Berdell, who was a doctor >> unmarried dentist. >> Oh, dentist. You say
00:13:33
>> we got a dentist. According to Feldman, Emma pursued and was pursued by other
00:13:38
eligible men before and after moving into Berdell's boarding house at 31 Bond Street. So, he owned the boarding house.
00:13:45
>> He wrote, among others, Emma exchanged intimate letters for a year and a half
00:13:49
with former Aego, New York resident Whitthall C. Hyde, but abandoned that romance once she realized the
00:13:55
relationship wasn't probably going to end in marriage. >> Can I just say that Whitthall is such a
00:13:59
baller name, right? Whitthall. The problem, it seemed, was that while men were attracted to Emma, none of her
00:14:06
suitors seemed particularly interested in getting married. >> Yeah. Especially to a widow with five
00:14:11
children. >> Yeah. Understandable. >> Running out of money and facing what she didn't want, poverty. Emma became
00:14:18
desperate, which Feldman suggests could be the reason why she quote may well have ignored any unsavory information
00:14:25
about the handsome, well-known Dr. Berdell. >> I I feel like a a weird emphasis on the
00:14:30
well-known. Yeah. So, she pursued that relationship with Gusto. >> Okay. >> Harvard Berdell was born January 8th,
00:14:38
1812. He's Capricorn >> in Herkimer, New York to John and Paulie Berdell. I love the name Paulie.
00:14:44
>> It's adorable. Reports of Harvey's earlier life are pretty vague >> and they kind of like contradict
00:14:50
themselves. It's really not something you can kind of put into a good chronological order. But most agree that
00:14:57
young Harvey's life was kind of an unfortunate cycle of instability, tragedy, and rejection. Oh,
00:15:04
>> it wasn't great. Just a few years after he was born, his father either died or
00:15:09
divorced his wife. Accounts kind of differ. >> Um, leaving Paulie with five children to
00:15:14
raise and no income. >> Damn. Another five children. >> I was going to say weird.
00:15:18
>> Yeah, it echoes. When Harvey was 12 years old, his mother married James Layman, an upstate New York farmer with
00:15:24
very little interest in the children from Pauliey's previous marriage. >> Intending to have children of his own
00:15:30
with his new wife, James made it clear that Harvey and his siblings weren't welcome in his home.
00:15:35
>> The five children, >> a literal piece of [ __ ] >> And uh Polly was just like, "Okay, bye
00:15:39
kids." >> And in 1824, Harvey was forced out of the house and had to take care of
00:15:43
himself with no resources and very few skills. >> What the [ __ ] Being abandoned by his
00:15:48
mother at such an early age set the stage for how Harvey would come to conceive of relationships and
00:15:54
attachments. >> Oh, good. >> And serve as the foundation of his pretty low opinion of women that he
00:16:00
would develop in later years. >> Yeah. >> Harvey managed to complete a few more years of formal education, which is
00:16:06
pretty impressive to be honest. before leaving school and working a series of odd jobs in the years after that around
00:16:13
1829 when he was just 17 years old cuz he was like 12 when he went out. >> That's awful.
00:16:18
>> He became the owner of the Auego Advisor, a small upstate newspaper that had started several years earlier.
00:16:25
Although the paper folded just a year after that, it led to a job offer from a rival newspaper, which eventually led to
00:16:32
Harvey traveling to the Philadelphia area. And when he got there, he started attending lectures at the Jefferson
00:16:37
Medical College. >> It was here that he received the education to become a dentist.
00:16:43
>> But there's no documented evidence of his having graduated from or even like formally attending the college.
00:16:50
>> Okay. >> So Feldman points out it was easy for the creative Dr. Berdell to concoct and
00:16:56
pass off as truth his medical training credentials for consumption by patients and professional societies.
00:17:02
>> That's terrifying. Your dentist is a professional. >> Yeah. He just like attended a few
00:17:06
lectures >> giving Dr. Death. >> Yeah. In 1834, Harvey followed his brother John to New York where the two
00:17:12
opened a dental practice and would go on to write a dental textbook. >> What the [ __ ]
00:17:17
>> Yeah. Like most professional groups at the time, the New York dental profession
00:17:21
was still pretty small. So, the Berdell brothers were able to make a name for themselves pretty quickly and easily.
00:17:26
>> In a good way. This was particularly easy at the time since there were many fraudulent dentists and surgical con
00:17:33
artists working around the country at the time. [laughter] >> Fraudical >> fraudical surgical notical people. And
00:17:41
so to in this case a respectable dentist, even if their credentials were suspect, like one that was at the very
00:17:49
least doing things on the up and up at this point, >> they could kind of expect a pretty
00:17:53
lucrative business cuz they were kind of rare. Damn. >> Which is wild. In the years that
00:17:59
followed, their relationship, the two brothers, as well as their relationship with other siblings deteriorated. There
00:18:05
was like a lot of frivolous lawsuits, romantic affairs, but that like got all intertwined and [ __ ] up. Oh.
00:18:11
>> But the business they built together remained a success. >> Okay. >> Now, by 1854, Harvey was running his own
00:18:18
dental practice and seeing no need to live alone in his large home. So, he opened his Bond Street residence to
00:18:24
borders, and it didn't take long for Berdell to take a romantic interest in his newest border.
00:18:31
>> After months of subtle flirting, in which Harvey repeatedly beseeched Emma to throw off her black clothes and
00:18:38
embrace life again cuz she was a widow, remember? >> Yeah. He said, >> "Get out of morning, girl."
00:18:43
>> He said, "Girl, get sexy and flirt." >> Isn't that the Princess Diaries when Joe
00:18:47
is like, "You've been wearing black for too long." >> Yeah. [laughter] I love Joe from the
00:18:52
Princess Diaries. >> I do too. That's what made me think of it. I was like a >> and the queen
00:18:57
>> and I love that. So that's essentially what Harvey Berdell did. >> Okay, don't make me root for this cuz I
00:19:02
feel like I'm not supposed to. [laughter] Emma finally gave in and in the summer
00:19:06
of 1855 agreed to accompany him that summer on a trip to Saratoga Springs, >> which was a very popular destination for
00:19:13
elite travelers >> because it was the racetracks. >> Traveling in the company of Emma's
00:19:20
teenage daughter, Helen, the three registered at Saratoga's Congress Hall Hotel and immediately began taking in
00:19:26
the sights. So she likes their shop. >> Yeah. She's like, "Helen's coming. [laughter]
00:19:31
[music] I need here's a quick little detour. Um cuz here we are. >> Where are you going to take us?
00:19:49
>> Helen makes me think. Any of you who have kids, maybe if you don't have kids,
00:19:53
maybe you're watching it. Please tell me you've seen the show. >> [ __ ] >> I love Helen. Please tell me you've seen
00:20:01
the show KIF. >> It's great. >> It is one of the funniest kids shows. We literally request that my kids were
00:20:09
like, they're like, "What should we watch?" I'm like, "Kif, >> throw on Kiff." >> Anytime they want to watch TV with me,
00:20:14
I'm like, "Can we watch KIF?" >> It's got old school vibes of like the things we used to watch when we were
00:20:19
younger. And I think the true creators, cuz John looked into them because he was
00:20:22
like, "This show's [ __ ] awesome." And all the songs in it are very like pop punky songs. So, we were like, "Who are
00:20:29
these people that made this? They've got to be our age. Like, this has to be it."
00:20:33
And turns out they are. And I think they're Australian. I'm not positive, but >> they just have better humor.
00:20:38
>> They I think one of them, like the guy was in a band, like a pop punk band. So,
00:20:42
all those songs are meant to be like that. >> That only makes sense. >> And then he loved that animation style.
00:20:48
Like they both love the animation style of like the Ren and Stimpies and all that where they would, you know, in Ren
00:20:52
and Stimpy, you guys will know this. >> They used to do this thing where they would go like really close up and it
00:20:57
would get more detailed and like weird. >> Yeah. Like on like >> on somebody's face or something. They do
00:21:02
that in Kif and it gives you such weird nostalgia. >> K is so It's so weird, but it's so good.
00:21:07
>> So [ __ ] weird, but it's awesome. And Helen is a character who is a witch. >> She's me and her voice.
00:21:14
>> I love her. I want to be Helen for the next listener tales, but I don't know if
00:21:18
anyone will get it, >> guys. >> And she's always just like, "Yeah, I'm Helen." [laughter]
00:21:22
>> That's her voice. >> I'm Helen. >> I'm Oh my god, that is so good. >> Oh my god.
00:21:28
>> Yeah, it's Please, if your children are not watching K watching >> the episode where they're going to make
00:21:33
Helen a star, but they're like like they're making her like a fake star like for people to laugh at. That would make
00:21:38
>> But then Kif and Barry try to Yeah, it doesn't. [clears throat] >> It's got good little messages into it.
00:21:44
So good. >> That's my little detour. Every time I hear the name Helen, I can't help but
00:21:48
think of Helen. >> I love it. >> Um, but yeah, so Helen went with them. >> So Emma's intentions had been to secure
00:21:55
a husband and in doing that also secure a very stable financial future for herself and her children.
00:22:02
>> Yeah. >> Throughout their trip to Saratoga Springs, Harvey lavished Emma with
00:22:06
attention, with adoration, indicating that her strategy was working. Hey, that fall, more evidence of success came when
00:22:16
uh the three had returned home and Emma began experiencing morning sickness on a
00:22:20
regular basis. >> Oh, they had a good time in Saratoga. >> They sure did. >> Recognizing the pretty unmistakable
00:22:26
signs of pregnancy. >> Remember five times of doing it. >> Emma was like, "Success."
00:22:31
>> She said, "Marry me, bitch." >> After all, any respectable man in Harvey's position would surely do the
00:22:36
right thing and marry the woman who was carrying his child. >> Oh, no. Unfortunately,
00:22:41
>> oh no, >> Emma was wrong. >> Oh no. >> Having spent years building a reputation
00:22:45
and considerable number of assets, he wasn't going to risk it all for a woman he barely knew.
00:22:51
>> Oh, he just impregnated. >> But I said, "Oh, you barely knew. >> You impregnated her."
00:22:56
>> Yeah, you knew her enough to do that. >> I knew her. I impregnated her. Like,
00:22:59
what the [laughter] [ __ ] Now, how or when Harvey became aware of Emma's pregnancy is kind of unknown, but
00:23:07
in testimony given at Emma's trial, [laughter] uh, >> witnesses recalled her spending
00:23:14
considerable time in bed around mid to late November. Um, and this is sad, recuperating from what they believed was
00:23:21
a miscarriage. >> Oh, no. >> Yeah. Um, similarly, in a statement given to her lawyers, Emma explained
00:23:27
that when she told Harvey about the pregnancy, he insisted on examining her himself. And I was like,
00:23:32
>> "You're a dentist. >> The [ __ ] >> I don't have teeth down there." So, >> and after confirming the pregnancy, he
00:23:40
quote, "Produced an abortion with his own hands." >> Oh, yeah. [ __ ] >> Like, not at her will.
00:23:46
>> No. >> Oh. Aside from the testimony in Emma's statement, there is no evidence of her
00:23:52
pregnancy or her having had an abortion. However, given his medical training and
00:23:56
access to medical knowledge, it is entirely possible that he did perform it himself.
00:24:02
>> Yeah. Now, had Emma not been so eager to find a husband and climb back up the
00:24:06
social ladder, it's likely she would have noticed that Harvey wasn't quite the charming and respectable man that
00:24:12
she had kind of hoped he would be. >> Yeah. In fact, while he may have had a good reputation in some business
00:24:17
circles, he also had a reputation as essentially a scoundrel. [laughter] >> He sounds like a scoundrel to me.
00:24:24
>> Yeah. Uh throughout New York, there were several creditors and vendors who Harvey
00:24:28
just refused to pay after receiving services or loans. >> Giving HH homes. >> It is hinting at the greed and
00:24:35
nonchalants that seem to motive nearly everything he did. >> And just like thinking he's better so he
00:24:40
doesn't have to. >> I don't have to do that. The worst of these came in 1835 when on his wedding
00:24:44
day, Harvey quote, "Demanded $20,000 from the wealthy father of the bride to be in order to go through with the
00:24:51
wedding." >> What the [ __ ] >> Yeah. Just bribed her. >> Yeah. Just bribed her. Um, disgusted
00:24:58
with Harvey's demand, the man refused to pay. And Harvey promptly threw both the
00:25:02
father and his betrothed out of the house and called off the wedding. >> What the [ __ ]
00:25:08
>> Uh-huh. He said, "If you don't give me $20,000, I will not marry your daughter."
00:25:11
>> Yeah. And then was like, "Bye. >> I really won't. You You're all going to leave now."
00:25:15
>> He said, "Don't [ __ ] around and find out." >> Now, in time, Emma came to learn that as
00:25:19
far as Harvey was concerned, sex and love were two very different matters. >> While the couple continued their sexual
00:25:25
relationship into 1856, Harvey continued to refuse to marry Emma or even acknowledge their relationship in public
00:25:33
spheres. >> Oh, he was treating her like she was way less than. Yeah. Fed up with Harvey's
00:25:38
disinterest and tired of fighting, Emma made one final attempt to get him to legitimize their relationship. And in
00:25:44
October 1856, she filed suit against him in civil court for breach of promise. >> Oh, that I love that. Isn't that a wild
00:25:54
one? >> The suit ended with a kind of informal settlement that stated, "In consequence
00:26:00
of the settling of the suit now pending between Emma Augusta Cunningham and myself, I agree as follows. One, I
00:26:07
extend to herself and family my friendship through life. Two, I agree never to do or act in any manner to the
00:26:15
disadvantage of Mrs. Emma A. Cunningham. >> It's unknown why that document would
00:26:21
satisfy Emma, especially if she intended to get him to commit to marriage with this.
00:26:25
>> Yeah. >> But it was what was clear was that Harvey still had no intention of marrying her. He's like, I'll be nice to
00:26:31
her. In an interview with a reporter from the Daily Herald in 1857, New York County Deputy Sheriff Hugh Crombi was
00:26:38
asked by a reporter, "Do you believe Berdell ever thought of marrying her?" And he replied, "Marry her? Why, he'd
00:26:44
sooner have committed suicide." >> Oh, [ __ ] >> That's a quote, by the way. >> Yeah.
00:26:48
>> And Crombi wasn't the only one who knew of Harvey's deep disinterest in marriage. Shortly before he died, he
00:26:54
remarked to a friend that he quote would not marry the best woman living. >> Why? Cuz he's a scoundrel.
00:27:01
>> Said you ain't gonna tie me down. >> No, he is a scoundrel and a forever bachelor.
00:27:06
>> He wouldn't marry the >> the best woman living. >> Wow. It's like damn. Okay.
00:27:09
>> It's giving like southern charm. >> Good luck, bro. >> It wasn't just Emma who struggled with
00:27:13
Harvey's coldness. In fact, he seemed almost incapable of maintaining literally any close relationship with
00:27:19
anyone, including his family. >> Yeah. In the spring of 1856, when Harvey's cousin Deus Hubard came to stay
00:27:27
[laughter] in New York for with him for a short time, Harvey began ignoring Emma
00:27:31
altogether and instead lavished his young female cousin with attention and adoration.
00:27:37
>> I don't want to know anything about that. I don't need you to tell me anything about that.
00:27:42
>> Yeah. So, she had gone to her cousin seeking shelter after her marriage had fallen apart, and she wasn't interested
00:27:48
in romantic or sexual attraction, especially from a family member. >> That's good.
00:27:53
>> The girl stayed on at the house for a few weeks until the situation became intolerable.
00:27:58
>> And she relocated to the home of Harvey's brother, William, cuz she was like, Harvey's [ __ ] gross.
00:28:03
>> What a freak. For Emma, who had essentially taken on the role of wife without anything that goes along with
00:28:09
it, >> at least within the walls of the house, too, not in public, that was the final
00:28:14
straw. After the incident with his cousin, relations between Harvey and Emma deteriorated to the point that
00:28:20
rather than eat dinner at home with her, Harvey began taking his meals to a hotel
00:28:24
around the corner. >> Yeah. I'd be like, "Okay, you cousin [ __ ] I don't want to eat dinner with
00:28:28
you anyway." >> "Okay, you cousin [ __ ] Go eat your meal around the corner. >> Bye." By January, the two were hardly
00:28:34
speaking, and Emma strongly suspected that not only was Harvey having an affair with one of his dental patients,
00:28:40
but he also intended to sell the house at 31 Bond Street and cut all ties with her.
00:28:44
>> Oh [ __ ] >> On the morning morning of January 30th, Harvey was seen by several of the
00:28:49
boarding house residents in the company of a woman to whom he was giving a tour.
00:28:53
>> Uhoh. Seeing the two together, Emma approached one of the maids and asked who the woman was and was informed that
00:28:59
she was to be the new owner of the house and would be taking possession on the 1st of May. And Emma said to her, "He
00:29:06
better be careful. He may not live to sign the papers." >> Oh. And I said, "Oh, skirt."
00:29:13
On the morning of January 31st, a little after 7 a.m., Harvey's office assistant,
00:29:18
John Burchell, arrived at his house and went down to the cellar to collect coal to light the fire and harvest.
00:29:24
>> Where is Harvey? >> Yeah. He's just like, "Oh." As the boy made his way up to the second floor, he
00:29:28
stopped to say hello to the landl, who looked particularly depressed that morning.
00:29:36
>> And this is Emma. >> Yeah. As he approached the door to the office, John immediately noticed that a
00:29:41
key was dangling from the lock on the outside of the door. Cautiously, because he didn't want to disturb whatever
00:29:47
whatever business was taking place inside, he nudged the door open quietly and was shocked at what he discovered on
00:29:54
the other side. Harvey was lying on his left side, face down in a large pool of his own blood.
00:30:00
>> Uhoh. >> Burchchell ran to fetch the police and Dr. JW Francis, a doctor who lived
00:30:05
nearby, and all arrived at the house a short time later. Harvey had been stabbed 15 times in the chest and neck.
00:30:13
>> Holy [ __ ] And there was considerable bruising on his neck from a liature that
00:30:19
was discovered near the body. >> Damn. According to Dr. Francis, one of the stab wounds had severed Harvey's
00:30:25
corateed artery, causing blood to spurt, quote, violently from the victim's chest
00:30:31
and neck. Oh my god. >> And leaving blood spatter and smears more than five feet up the walls.
00:30:37
>> What the [ __ ] >> Oh, the corateed artery is no joke. >> Evidently. >> Yeah. There was also a large uh blood
00:30:44
trail leading from the dental chair in the center of the room to the door. >> Sounds like a horror movie.
00:30:50
>> Yeah. Given the considerable damage done to the body, Dr. Francis couldn't say
00:30:54
for certain which of the injuries had been the fatal blow, telling reporters any one of the stab wounds was
00:30:59
sufficient to cause death. >> Yeah. The wounds appeared to have been delivered in a combination of slashes
00:31:05
and stabs. >> Oh, >> varied in their depths and like just everywhere. >> This person is mad.
00:31:11
>> And it it indicated that whoever did it was in a rage. A >> little frenzy. >> Yeah. The coroner theorized the
00:31:17
implement used in the death was about 8 in in length, sharp pointed, and somewhere about 3/4 of an inch wide.
00:31:26
>> What the [ __ ] >> Yeah. That's not even Is that like a butcher knife or not even? That's what
00:31:30
is 8 in. >> That's long. >> That's long. >> Yeah, >> that's like a [ __ ] machete or
00:31:34
something. >> Can you imagine? >> Longer. But >> am I coming at you with a machete?
00:31:38
>> No, I can't picture that. >> Police officers, with the help of the coroner, checked the three individuals
00:31:44
living in the house for evidence of them being part of the murder. But they didn't find anything to indicate the
00:31:49
three played a role at all. A search of the premises was pretty unproductive. They didn't really find a whole lot of
00:31:56
evidence, but there was a blood trail leading from the office to the top floor, which indicated that the killer
00:32:02
was not in a really big hurry to flee the scene. >> Okay. Uh, a search of the attic turned
00:32:08
up a sheet and several items of clothing smeared with blood, including a shirt with the name Charles J. Ketchum printed
00:32:14
on it. >> Huh. >> By 9:00 a.m., the crime scene had attracted a big mob of people, locals,
00:32:21
members of the press, >> looking for something to do. All were trying to get a look inside the house.
00:32:25
Like you said, just looking for something to do, you know. >> Yeah. Just the days the days ahead.
00:32:29
>> Noting that Harvey's wallet and gold watch were still on him when the corner removed the body to the bedroom,
00:32:35
investigators quickly ruled out robbery. >> Yep. >> There really wasn't a lot of clues.
00:32:39
There really wasn't a lot of theories. So, a corner's inquest was assembled the following day, which took place in the
00:32:45
residence. Um, I always love how these like in the 1800s, this is why I love old timey cases, guys.
00:32:50
>> So fun. >> They would just do the [ __ ] in the house. >> Yeah. like a coroner's inquest just in
00:32:54
the boarding house. >> Lay down the little table. They're like, "Let's do it." >> I love how just like cobbled together
00:33:00
everything. >> The first testimony heard in the inquest was that of a local dentist, Alan Smith,
00:33:06
who claimed to have seen Harvey about midday on the day uh before, which was January 30th. Smith had been working
00:33:12
with Harvey on the manufacturing of dental implants, which wild >> crazy. And the two men had seen each
00:33:18
other at least once a day for several weeks. Smith testified that he had heard angry arguments between Harvey and Emma
00:33:25
in the days leading up to the murder, stemming from Harvey's belief that Emma had stolen the key to his safe.
00:33:30
>> Oh, the cook, Hannah Conlin, >> took a game of also, right? It feels like clue,
00:33:36
>> right? >> She the uh the cook, Hannah Conlin, also testified that she had heard aggressive
00:33:41
arguments between them, including one, quote, in reference to some papers which the deceased accused her of stealing.
00:33:47
Oh. Conland's testimony corroborated the difficult and violent relationship between Emmy Emma and Harvey. Um, but
00:33:54
the cook was also able to provide more insight into Emma's life in general. According to Conlin, Emma was often seen
00:34:01
sitting in the parlor or bedroom with John Eckl, another of the borders in the house. Hannah gave the assembled jury
00:34:08
considerable insight into Harvey's relationship with Emma. But the biggest bombshell was when Hannah revealed that
00:34:14
Emma had become pregnant with Verdell's child. She told the jury the last Thanksgiving day, Mrs. Cunningham had a
00:34:21
miscarriage of a child by Dr. Brell. She also told the jury a doctor was called a
00:34:26
few days later to tend to the wound Emma had sustained during one of her arguments with Harvey. Oh.
00:34:32
>> That caused her to bleed freely from the nose. >> Oh, okay. >> Which to me sounds like he hit her in
00:34:38
the face. >> Yep. 100%. Emma appeared on the witness stand late on the first day of the
00:34:42
inquest, but she provided a few details of her life in in relationship with Harvey, which it wasn't a lot. She
00:34:49
didn't give a lot, but what she did provide was a certificate of marriage as evidence that she and Harvey were
00:34:56
married on October 28th, 1856. >> Who knew? Look at that. Who knew? I don't even think Harvey knew. So, who
00:35:02
knew? >> He was like, I was there. Otherwise, she chose to speak of Harvey's character,
00:35:06
telling the jury about an affair that Harvey had with his brother's wife 20 or so years earlier.
00:35:11
>> Damn, that'll do it. Yeah. As well as the lawsuits and claims of slander that
00:35:15
followed. It would seem, sensing that she might come under a suspicion, Emma was trying to establish that he was a
00:35:22
man of poor character and his actions and attitude could have earned him any number of enemies who wished to kill
00:35:27
him. >> Yeah. >> Which like wasn't wrong. >> Nope. It's unclear whether her testimony
00:35:31
had any effect on the jury, but it won her no friends in the press. They described her as not handsome, rude,
00:35:39
>> and scarcely good-looking. >> Oh my. >> Which is the way they just used to read
00:35:44
a [ __ ] to filth back then. >> Scarcely. What was it? Don't ever tell me I'm not handsome. [laughter] Okay. I
00:35:52
am so handsome. And then what was it? Scarcely good-looking. >> Scarcely goodlook. That's diabolical. It
00:36:00
feels [laughter] like >> I don't know if I'm like a descendant of Emma's because I feel hurt right now.
00:36:04
>> Like imagine somebody just being like scarcely good. >> Good looking. >> Oh my god.
00:36:09
>> Like damn. >> And also what the [ __ ] does that have to do with anything? >> Yeah. They're ugly so she's a murderer.
00:36:16
>> They're like I'm hot and >> and you're not top that >> dead. In the week that followed, one
00:36:23
witness after another testified um as to Harvey's mcurial and peculiar character.
00:36:30
Uh but the witness testimony always had a way of making its way back to Emma. >> On the sixth day, an acquaintance of
00:36:37
Berdell's told the jury that shortly before he was murdered, Harvey informed him that Emma, her daughter John Eckle,
00:36:44
and another border, George George Snodgrass. >> Shut the [ __ ] up. Sorry, I had to take a
00:36:51
minute to go. Snodgrass, [snorts] as you >> if you could see, I had to make a point
00:36:56
of that. >> Yep. >> Uh George Snodgrass >> obsessed. >> He told So he told um Berdell or no,
00:37:03
excuse me, sorry, >> not George, but like somebody told him that those three were
00:37:08
>> it was an acquaintance of Berdell. He was the one who testified that Berdell had told him before he got murdered.
00:37:14
That all those people, Emma, her daughter, John Eckle, and that border, George Snodgrass, course had threatened
00:37:20
his life. >> Oh, [ __ ] All together now. >> All together now. All right. >> All of them standing in ones that we
00:37:25
said, "We're going to end your life. >> You're going to die." Um, the testimony led the jury to believe the murder was
00:37:32
committed from quote deep longmeditated revenge. And it was insisted that all further witnesses be interviewed, quote,
00:37:39
with reference to that fact, >> which I was like, feels like leading though, >> a little bit.
00:37:44
>> Uh, but okay. >> While it was clear that the coroner and the jury were focusing on the
00:37:48
deteriorating relationship between them and Harvey as clear motive for murder. >> Yeah.
00:37:54
>> There were other witnesses whose testimony kind of undermined that theory. >> Okay.
00:37:57
>> During their questioning of Berdell's friend and former partner, Alva Blasell,
00:38:02
that's what it is. Bldale, for example, the jury was told while it was true that Harvey complained about
00:38:09
Emma regularly, he was known to exaggerate problems and was likely just venting his frustrations. Blas Bler,
00:38:19
Dr. Berdell is a peculiar man. He will have a quarrel, say it this hour, and the next hour will be pleasant. So, I
00:38:26
think she's just like, I don't know. He's kind of like a flighty [ __ ] Like he's just kind of mad at you one minute
00:38:30
and then you're fine the next. >> It's kind of Geminises of him. >> It It kind of is.
00:38:34
>> I know. I'm like I think he's a Capricorn. >> He's a Capricorn. Yeah. >> I don't know his chart though.
00:38:38
>> That's true. >> Maybe maybe a Gemini rising. >> There you go. I was going to say maybe
00:38:42
his rising is is more accurate. >> Look at you. >> One of the last people called to testify
00:38:47
was a shop girl named >> I love a shop girl. >> I love a shop girl. Her name was
00:38:51
Isabella Banford. >> Pretty Isabella Banford from the shop. >> That's me. She was from Clyde and
00:38:56
Black's parasol and cane store. >> Oh, but get your get your parasols. Get your canes.
00:39:02
>> You need help walking. You hate the sun. Come on down. >> I love that there's just a store for
00:39:06
parasols and canes. >> Uh Banford told the jury that on the morning of January 30th, a man and
00:39:12
woman, >> period. A man and woman. [laughter] >> A man and woman asked about purchasing
00:39:20
aa aa aa aa aa aa aa aa aa aa a a sword cane. >> [laughter] >> I need to look it up because I think it
00:39:30
is what I think it is. [laughter] >> The way that I almost just spit this copy across the [ __ ] universe. A
00:39:38
sword cane. >> A sword cane, which >> What is that? >> Is exactly what you think it is.
00:39:42
>> I don't even know what I think it is. >> It's a cane, but if you pull the top,
00:39:46
it's a sword. Like, there's a sword in the cane. >> That is fun. >> And I get it. You want a sword cane. Who
00:39:53
doesn't [laughter] >> wanted a sword cane? I just got so lost. >> A man and a woman.
00:39:55
>> Oh, just a man cave woman. Yeah. Or the woman asked about purchasing a sword cane.
00:40:00
>> Okay. >> Uh according So she said a request from a woman for such a weapon was rare.
00:40:05
>> Yeah. I bet. >> Um according to Banford, which is why it stuck out in her memory, she said that
00:40:10
that's rare. So that's why I thought of it. Yeah. But after viewing what the store had available, the woman claimed
00:40:16
she quote needed something much shorter and sturdier. >> She said, "I don't really care for your
00:40:20
sword canes. I don't like your swords. >> They're not good. >> Or your canes. [laughter]
00:40:25
>> And she said she couldn't wait for the next day's delivery. So, >> I need it now.
00:40:29
>> I need it [laughter] now. >> Then the couple hurried out of the store. >> I got to get out of here.
00:40:33
>> I need to leave. [laughter] You don't have the sword cane I need. I'm going to
00:40:38
the next sword and cane store [laughter] >> and parasol. >> I'll deal with the next shop girl.
00:40:44
>> She'll throw a parasol for free. Her name's Penelopey, not Isabella. Uh, when
00:40:49
Banford was brought up to the cell where Emma was being held, she positively identified her as one half of the couple
00:40:55
who inquired about the sword king. >> She said, "That [ __ ] really wanted a sword.
00:40:59
>> She wanted a [ __ ] sword. >> A shot one, though." >> When she was taken to see John
00:41:03
Snodgrass, on the other hand, >> that guy, >> she could not identify him as the man
00:41:07
who accompanied Emma that day. >> She said, "I don't know. His last name is just simply too cool."
00:41:11
>> She said, "His name, though silly, is not is [laughter] not something I remember." Later that day, the jury also
00:41:19
heard from Margaret Alviset and Agnes Smith shop girls as well who work at a nearby competitor of Clyde and Black.
00:41:27
There's a competing parasol in Cane store. >> That's where [laughter] she was going to
00:41:30
go. >> The girls testified that a few days before Berdell was murdered, they waited
00:41:35
on a couple who'd come in looking to purchase a sword cane. >> A sword can? Was it the woman?
00:41:39
>> But instead, they purchased a small dagger about 5 in long. >> Well, I was just going to say hot.
00:41:45
>> H. When asked if she would recognize the man and woman, Alviset positively identified them as Emma Cunningham and
00:41:52
George Snodgrass. >> Not Mr. Snodgrass. >> When asked whether the dagger purchased
00:41:56
by Snodgrass would have inflicted the type of wounds discovered on Harvey's body, the corner confirmed it would
00:42:02
have. >> She killed him with a dagger. >> A dagger. >> A dagger is so metal. >> Yeah, it's true. And it's like
00:42:09
>> up. >> She initially wanted a a [ __ ] sword. >> Sword cane. >> A sword. >> Yeah. Well, she wanted a short one. She
00:42:16
wanted a [ __ ] sword. >> She said, "One thing about Emma, she might be a crazy [ __ ]
00:42:21
[music] After two weeks of testimony and six hours of deliberation, the coroner and
00:42:38
the jury had put together a theory as to the suspect and the murder of the crime."
00:42:42
>> Yeah. Unsurprisingly, the cause of death was determined to be murder. >> And the jury deemed Emma Cunningham and
00:42:48
John John Eckle responsible with George Snodgrass as an accessory. >> Oh, no. >> They also, cuz remember, Emma's been
00:42:54
spending a lot of time >> with those two >> in the room with John Eckl. That's like
00:42:59
a thing that people said. >> Huh. >> They also charged Emma, two of Emma's daughters, Augusta and Helen.
00:43:05
>> Not Helen, >> with withholding information about the crime, which is like really I'm like,
00:43:09
why' you involve her? >> Who's their mom? And it's like, don't involve them. >> Yeah. No.
00:43:13
>> As for the motive, the jury theorized that Emma had conspired with the other men to murder Berdell in order that she,
00:43:20
claiming to be his wife, could access his financial assets. After >> Emma, John Eckle, and George Snodgrass
00:43:26
were taken into custody and immediately transported to the tombs to await an indictment.
00:43:31
>> Not the tomb. >> Not the tomb. Now, while Augusta and Helen were taken into custody of the
00:43:36
coroner and placed in a cell to be held as material witnesses, the outcome of a grand jury trial.
00:43:42
>> I'm now just picturing a lot of this as a Kif episode. And that's weird in my
00:43:45
head. >> It's getting weird. It is. >> On February 21st, 1857, Emma and John were brought before the Court of General
00:43:52
Sessions, and each was formally indicted on one charge of assault and one charge
00:43:56
of murder. The grand jury declined to hand down an indictment against George Snodgrass, however, but they did
00:44:02
continue to hold him on $2,500 bail as a material witness for the case. >> Okay.
00:44:08
>> Later that day, he was bonded out by his father with the understanding that he
00:44:12
was going to appear in court when the time came. >> Yeah. >> Um, finally, >> dad said, "He's good. He'll be there."
00:44:17
>> Yeah. He said, "It's fine." Finally, after reviewing the evidence presented at the inquiry, the jury determined
00:44:22
there was no reason to hold Augusta or Ell Helen as witnesses, and they were both released.
00:44:27
>> That's good. >> Yeah. Despite having been indicted for Harvey's murder, Emma continued to
00:44:32
pursue what she claimed was her right as his wife to access to his estate. >> Damn.
00:44:37
>> So, she is indicted for his murder, and she's like, "Yeah, yeah, when do I get
00:44:40
to get to the financial, >> baby? If you're convicted, >> you're not going to get it." Uh-uh. On
00:44:45
March 3rd, Emma appeared before Alexander Bradford of the surrogate court, now presenting herself as Emma
00:44:50
Cunningham Berdell. >> Girl, >> and seeking a determination of validity of her marriage to Harvey.
00:44:56
>> Babe, you're on trial for murder. >> Yeah. Of said Harvey. >> Yeah. Of the man's [laughter] of the
00:45:01
man's whom to state you want. >> As she had done previously, Emma again presented the marriage certificate
00:45:07
claiming the two had been married in October 1856 in the rectory of Reverend Uriah Marine. That just sounds like a
00:45:14
fake person. >> But this time, Emma's lawyer, Hen Henry Clinton, called Augusta Cunningham to
00:45:20
testify on her mother's behalf. >> Clinton claimed, and Augusta swore, that the girl had been present for the for
00:45:26
the wedding. And when asked to identify, quote, the man she stood beside in the rectory parlor, she positively
00:45:32
identified Harvey Berdell as the man who married her mother that day. >> Okay. Unfortunately for Emma, although
00:45:39
Reverend Marine was able to positively identify Augusta as the girl who accompanied the couple to the rectory
00:45:44
that evening, he couldn't recall anything about the groom. In fact, the only things Marvine remembered of that
00:45:51
night in 1856, aside from the presence of Emma and Augusta, was that the groom paid the fee with a $10 bank note and
00:45:58
that he made the odd request that the news of the marriage not be reported to the press or otherwise made public. I
00:46:04
mean, honey, that's Harvey. Sounds like it. A string of witnesses following Marvine further undermined Emma's claim,
00:46:11
telling the jury that in the days just before the alleged marriage took place, Harvey was seen in both Herkimer and
00:46:18
Saratoga Toga Springs. >> H >> making it impossible for him to have been with Emma in Manhattan.
00:46:24
>> Okay, so who was that? Clinton challenged each of these witnesses, telling the judge that every one of them
00:46:29
was either mistaken by a month in their recollections or conspiring with the Berdell family to defeat an Emma
00:46:36
Cunningham suit and line their collective pockets with the estate assets. So, it's getting nasty.
00:46:42
>> Yeah, it's getting hella messy right now. >> And who the [ __ ] did she marry?
00:46:45
>> Yeah. >> Was it Harvey? >> I kind of feel like yes. >> Or was it like John Eckle?
00:46:50
>> I don't know. >> Who was it? The matter of Harvey's estate was put on hold starting May 4th.
00:46:55
[laughter] >> That's good. >> Yeah. They were like, "Hey, we'll figure that out, but first we got to find out
00:47:00
who killed him." >> Emma, it's like, "Let's put this on hold to accommodate the murder trial of John
00:47:05
and Emma." >> Thanks. >> In his opening remarks, prosecutor Abraham Oakley Hall.
00:47:11
>> All he could be was a prosecutor. >> All he could be. And he's wearing a full
00:47:15
suit and he's so sweaty and he's always pulling out his handkerchief to just pat
00:47:20
down his face. So animated, you know, like don't you just feel that? >> Yeah, he does.
00:47:25
>> Of Abraham Oakley Hall. >> Yeah, he's so sweaty. >> He told the jury that the evidence would
00:47:30
prove that Harvey had been killed by a member of the household and there was only one in the house, quote, who
00:47:35
greater than any other in the world had a motive with malice or forethought to perpetrate and accomplish that horrible
00:47:41
deed. Also, the state would prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Emma Cunningham
00:47:45
had been motivated by quote hate and revenge for some injury unatoned when she murdered Harvey Berdell with a
00:47:53
secondary motive of accessing his estate. >> Okay. >> The prosecution's argument unfolded over
00:47:58
the course of basically like 10 days and was more or less a repeat of the coroner's inquest. In the absence of
00:48:04
evidence t tying Emma to the murder, the prosecutor relied pretty extensively on
00:48:09
hearsay, speculation, and vague witness testimony that suggested a connection, but never actually implicated her in the
00:48:16
crime. >> Huh. >> Like the inquest, the more damning testimony came from the shop girls are
00:48:21
shop girls. shop girls >> who told the jury about Emma and Eckle attempting to purchase a cane sword
00:48:28
>> and from Harvey's cook Hannah Conlin who in fact Conlin was one of the several
00:48:33
witnesses who testified as like basically saying that they had a pretty acrimonious and often violent
00:48:39
relationship together. >> She was the one that was like I was in that house like I heard all of it
00:48:44
>> with the prosecutor paying particular attention to Emma's comment of quote he
00:48:48
may not live to sign the papers. >> That's a biggie. And that was made on the morning of Harvey's murder.
00:48:53
>> Yeah. >> While Hall had hoped the jury would be swayed by the witness testimony, he also
00:48:58
used the press and public opinion to his advantage. He went out of his way to portray Emma as a greedy woman of loose
00:49:04
morals. >> Not loose morals >> as a regular presence in the house. Conlin, the cook, was able to provide
00:49:10
considerable insight into the daily lives of the defendants, including testimony about Emma's relationship with
00:49:16
Harvey, her supposed abortion, her implied sexual relationship with fellow border John Eckle.
00:49:22
>> What robe? >> While none of these things were exactly a motive for murder, Paul basically
00:49:27
hoped that they would support the prosecution's position that Emma would stop at nothing to get what she wanted.
00:49:32
>> Yeah, cuz it's taken all together. It's pretty a lot of information. The defense
00:49:38
repeatedly lodged their objection to Hall's line of questioning, arguing that the jury could easily be misled by the
00:49:43
quote unreliable memories of domestics. But they were overruled every time. >> Huh.
00:49:49
>> I love unreliable memories of domestics. >> Yeah. >> Like people working in the house. Like
00:49:54
wow. When he had concluded his arguments, Hall had painted a picture of Emma as a scheming murderous willing to
00:50:01
use anyone and do anything to achieve her own ends, which according to the prosecutor was wealth and status.
00:50:08
Testimony from one witness after another depicted life in the Burdell house as one of constant strife, aggression
00:50:14
between Harvey and Emma, who they were told were two depraved and sexually abhorent individuals.
00:50:21
>> Oh, [ __ ] >> Yeah. They made them out to be like just abhorentt is such a good word. And most
00:50:26
importantly, it is a really good word. And most importantly, Emma had a gun and two knives in her possession.
00:50:32
>> So why did she need a a a cane soul >> and was the only left-handed person in
00:50:37
the house with a man who'd been murdered by a left-handed assassin. >> Oh, anytime there's a lefty involved and
00:50:43
and you happen to be a lefty, >> it's not good for you, dog. >> Smoking hand. Legit. Yeah. While the
00:50:49
prosecution had taken more than a week to present their case to the jury, Clinton and the defense only required
00:50:54
two days to present their rebuttal. Using the rumors and innuendo to their advantage, they counted that Emma wasn't
00:51:00
a cold-blooded killer, just a woman who'd found herself in an abusive relationship with a man known for his
00:51:06
peculiarities, mood swings, and unsavory behaviors. Although Emma never took the stand in
00:51:12
her own defense, her lawyers managed to undo some of the damage to her reputation done by the prosecutor.
00:51:18
specifically by portraying her as a committed mother and a spiritual woman who worked hard to provide a good life
00:51:24
to her kids and a private Christian school education for her oldest daughters. >> Wow.
00:51:29
>> That was all true. >> All right. >> Cuz one thing she did do is work really hard for her children.
00:51:34
>> Yeah. >> Most important to the defense was to refute the already questionable physical
00:51:38
evidence in the case that supposedly implicated Emma and John Eckle. During cross-examination of the coroner,
00:51:45
Clinton went out of his way to point out that the coroner lacked credible medical
00:51:49
training. We got one. >> Oh, >> as I was saying, it was rare to find someone that actually had the good.
00:51:56
>> Yeah. And he also lacked experience. And they called their own medical expert,
00:52:01
Dr. John Carne, a professor of surgery at the New York Medical College. >> I feel like I believe him.
00:52:07
>> I believe him. Unlike the coroner who admitted on the stand that he knew little about surgery.
00:52:14
Carnean had extensive extensive experience with the types of wounds sustained by Berdell during the attack
00:52:19
and he told the jury that not only would Harvey's killer have needed considerable
00:52:23
strength, but Carnean also believed based on his observation of the blood spatter at the crime scene that the
00:52:29
killer was right-handed. >> Yeah. >> So, I wonder when that came up too. >> On May 9th, the judge and this was later
00:52:37
like this was during the rebuttal phase. So, this was way later. No, I mean I wonder when it came up that like the
00:52:42
killer was left-handed after they found out that Emma was a lefty or >> Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Like
00:52:48
>> on May 9th, the judge allotted 4 hours for the prosecution and the defense to
00:52:51
make their closing arguments and both sides used about like half their time before excusing the jury to deliberate.
00:52:58
Most in the courtroom expected a long wait before the verdict was returned because it's pretty messy.
00:53:03
>> Yeah. But the jury returned just 30 minutes later and they delivered a verdict of not guilty.
00:53:10
>> [ __ ] >> In the end, the lack of evidence and heavy reliance on vague witness
00:53:15
testimony along with the considerable rumors of Berdell's cruelty and amorality.
00:53:20
>> Yeah. >> Proved too much for the jury to overlook and they simply couldn't find Emma
00:53:24
guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. >> I feel like the biggest thing would be that medical expert completely refuting
00:53:30
everything that the other ones said. That would lead like so much room for >> and there's no real evidence tying her
00:53:36
directly to it. >> Yeah. No, not at all. >> So, with Emma acquitted of the murder,
00:53:40
she and her daughters were now free to return to 31 Bond Street pending the pending the outcome of the matter of
00:53:47
Berdell's estate >> before the surrogate court. And also, Emma's a quiddle automatically resulted
00:53:52
in the charges against John Eckl being dropped. And so, he too was free to go. >> Nice. Now, Emma's a quiddle resolved the
00:53:58
criminal charges against her, but there was still the unresolved matter of, like
00:54:02
you just said, Harvey's estate, >> right? >> And she maintained that as his wife, she
00:54:07
was entitled. At the time, marriages were documented by the church. And although Emma had a document signed by
00:54:13
Reverend Marine, the Berdell family argued that the document was a forgery and Harvey would have never married
00:54:19
Emma. >> Rude. Further complicating matters for Emma was the existence of minor children
00:54:24
in the Berdell family, giving the court an additional reason to sympathize with the Bells.
00:54:29
>> In light of her acquitt, her defense team did their best to portray her in the most sympathetic way they could,
00:54:35
painting a picture of a woman now twice widowed whose reputation had been dragged through the mud by a vindictive
00:54:41
prosecutor. This, they hope, was going to win them sympathy for the surrogate court and give them cause to overlook
00:54:47
the contradictions in Emma's timeline of events. Okay. But never one to pin all her hopes on one strategy, Emma began
00:54:55
concocting a new scheme while still locked up in the tombs prior to the her quiddle. According to her affidavit
00:55:01
signed by Emma's personal physician, Dr. Samuel Catelyn, quote, whilst in prison,
00:55:06
she told me that she was with child. I have no recollection of any positive statement from her that she was with
00:55:13
child by the late Harvey Berdell, but that was my inference from our conversation.
00:55:18
>> So, she's Pger's. sheers or that's what she's saying. >> I was going to say maybe
00:55:23
>> closing arguments in the estate case were given at the end of June and the surrogate um was scheduled to deliver
00:55:28
his decision in August. So in the meantime, Emma played up the pregnancy charade.
00:55:34
>> Mhm. >> Claiming she was due to deliver Harvey's baby in early August. >> Okay.
00:55:40
>> Given that she hadn't mentioned the pregnancy before, everyone involved in the case immediately was like, "Excuse
00:55:47
me?" like immediate suspicion when Emma did indeed produce a baby in early August, claiming he was the heir to the
00:55:54
Berdell estate. >> Where the [ __ ] did she find a baby if it wasn't hers? >> As Harvey Berdell's widow, Emma would
00:56:00
have been entitled to a portion of the estate. However, as the mother of Harvey's only heir, she would have
00:56:08
access to the entire thing. >> Oh my god, where did she find this baby child? The suspicious claims of a newly
00:56:13
produced heir were themselves a reason to suspect fraud. But for Oki Hall, our guy over there with the sweat guy,
00:56:21
>> so sweaty, >> who had been receiving intense criticism for handling his handling of the murder
00:56:26
trial, the claim was a new opportunity to salvage his reputation. >> Oh, >> in fact, when Hall learned that Emma had
00:56:32
approached Dr. David Ool, one of the doctors who testified for the defense in the criminal trial and asked for help in
00:56:39
procuring a suitable heir. He saw the perfect opportunity to lay a trap for Emma.
00:56:45
>> Oh my god. >> Cuz he was like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa. You went trying to find a baby to pass
00:56:49
offices." >> Paul told the doctor to return to Emma and agree to help get a baby
00:56:56
>> in exchange for $1,000. >> Hello. Get a baby. and to tell Emma that he had located a baby whose mother had
00:57:03
been quote summoned west by her newly rich husband and she couldn't take the child with her.
00:57:08
>> Okay. >> In reality, Hall had simply p procured a baby from the indigent ward at Belleview
00:57:14
Hospital. [gasps] >> Oh, >> and the indigent means like poor. >> Yeah. Like without a momy, like an
00:57:21
orphanage. >> And this Belleview Hospital is obviously like a mental health facility. Um, with
00:57:27
the help of his longtime friend and hospital staff member, Dr. Montagy. >> Uhhuh.
00:57:32
>> Emma's attempts to use pregnancy to fraudulently access Harvey's estate. >> Emma's attempt to procure a baby
00:57:39
>> to procure a fake >> required a little bit of theater, but they were nothing compared to the scheme
00:57:46
Hall concocted to catch her in that lie. >> This is so fun. >> On August 3rd, Dr. went to the house on
00:57:52
Bond Street and was followed by a set of monogrammed uh luggage made specifically
00:57:57
for the roose in order to convince Emma the baby had come from a wellto-do family.
00:58:02
>> He got luggage for this show. >> So, he had super fancy luggage with him. He goes there, he's like, "Look, this is
00:58:07
a fancy a fancy baby that borrow." >> Uh later that evening, officers waited outside the residence on Bond Street.
00:58:15
And when Emma emerged carrying what they believed to be the baby, they followed her to a residence in the Bowery.
00:58:21
>> Huh. I stayed there. >> Where they waited outside and listened as Emma moaned in a theatrical rec uh
00:58:28
recreation of Giving birth. >> My jaws on the floor. >> Yeah. When she emerged. >> Giving birth at the bowy.
00:58:34
>> Yeah. Just giving birth at the bowy. When she emerged, she was again carrying
00:58:38
the baby. This time in a basket the officers recognized as the one created for the scheme by the prosecutor's
00:58:44
office. it right now. >> Then they followed her back to the house on Bond Street and waited for further
00:58:50
instructions. Inside the house, Dr. had helped Emma set the scene to look as though it was the home of somebody who
00:58:56
just given birth. >> What? >> Including the creation of fake afterbirth prepared with lamb's blood.
00:59:06
>> Blink blink. >> I told you this gets [ __ ] crazy. >> Fake afterbirth. >> Yeah.
00:59:13
>> Okay. lamb's blood. >> I'm not following any of that up with any kind of >> They also covered a set of sheets with
00:59:18
some of the blood and got a placenta. >> These [ __ ] not only procured a baby, but they procured a placenta.
00:59:28
>> Yeah. >> Where the [ __ ] did they get a Was it a human placenta? >> That I don't know, but they got a
00:59:34
placenta. >> Hello. >> Which which they put in the cupboard >> for safekeeping. Why?
00:59:43
Oh, yeah. I just keep my placenta in the cupboard. [snorts] Oh, sure. Let me just
00:59:48
go grab some placenta out of my placenta cupboard. What? [snorts] Basically, if anyone had been suspicious of the
00:59:54
pregnancy story, it seemed like Emma had thought of everything she could [laughter] to convince placenta. The
01:00:01
only way me and Drew call placenta placenta. So, whenever [laughter] we have palenta in the fridge, I'm like,
01:00:06
"Oh, there's placenta in the fridge. Placenta in the fridge. >> I guess I should put it in the cabinet."
01:00:10
Well, what's funny is like Emma thought of everything that she could to convince
01:00:14
somebody she had given birth. But what she didn't plan on was how Oki Hall, our guy over there, Abraham Oki Hall, Sweaty
01:00:22
McGee, >> was ready for [ __ ] revenge. Like, she did not plan on how far he would go.
01:00:27
>> He said, "Don't [ __ ] with my name." >> He said no. >> Later that evening, officers raided the
01:00:31
house on Bond Street and found the baby lying beside Emma, who appeared to be genuinely quite ill, in her bed. At
01:00:39
first, she protested, telling the officers that the baby was hers and showing them the the evidence of its
01:00:44
birth. But the story quickly fell apart when Emma was informed that the baby had
01:00:49
been marked with lunar costic under its arms and and behind its ears. >> Uh that's like silver nitrate. And its
01:00:56
navl had been tied with a particular string, meaning it could be easily identified as the baby taken from
01:01:01
Belleview the previous day. >> They just like tied a string around its belly. >> Yeah. Like cuz when you cut the
01:01:07
umbilical cord >> Yeah. >> There's like now they put a little like clamp thing on it. The that part of the
01:01:13
belly button falls off. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Eventually they tied that with a string
01:01:18
like a particular string so they would know. >> [ __ ] That's cool. >> Yeah. They made sure like they weren't
01:01:22
going to [ __ ] this up that it couldn't be >> nothing would slip through as like no
01:01:27
this is my baby and you can't prove it. They were like oh no we can prove it in several ways.
01:01:31
>> I didn't know that that was a clamp. I thought that was a piece of the umbilical cord.
01:01:35
>> Yeah, it Well, it is. >> Oh, >> but it like there's a little like >> they I didn't know they
01:01:40
>> holding it there. >> Then it falls off. >> And that's why like cuz they basically
01:01:45
like, you know, >> your belly button like closes up. >> Cuts the umbilical cord and there's a
01:01:49
little bit sticking out, they clamp it >> and then that part that's sticking out
01:01:53
will fall off. >> That's your belly button. >> I didn't even know they clamped it.
01:01:56
>> Yeah. It's like a little uh I don't know how to describe it. I feel like it's a
01:01:59
little plastic clamp kind of thing. >> That's crazy. Baby belly buttons are so gross.
01:02:03
>> It's crazy. >> Um, but they identified it as the baby that was taken from Belleview.
01:02:08
>> Paul even went so far as to produce the baby's real mother, >> who just a few months later would
01:02:13
capitalize on her child's notoriety by cutting a deal to exhibit the child at PT Barnum's Museum in Manhattan.
01:02:19
>> Guys, we have to stop doing this to babies. >> We do have to stop putting them in
01:02:24
exhibits in exhibits 2025. I mean, that's something that's been a real problem is
01:02:30
babies being exhibited in circus museums. >> Something I'll always stand [laughter]
01:02:34
out against. >> Like, we have to stop. >> We have to stop this. It's a real problem to this. [laughter]
01:02:39
>> The [ __ ] >> It's an epidemic. It is. >> The amount of circus museums that are
01:02:43
popping up. >> That's what my next babies. >> That's what my next charity dinner will
01:02:47
be for. That's how I'm going to get on the Real Housewives. [laughter and gasps] My cause that I'm
01:02:52
against is mothers putting babies in museums. [laughter] >> Not just museums, circus museums.
01:03:00
[laughter] >> Stop putting your babies in circus museum. >> This is serious. [laughter]
01:03:05
>> Dig into your wallets. Don't you want this to >> I just create like a Ponzi scheme?
01:03:11
[laughter] >> This is so serious. >> Donate today. >> Donate [laughter] today. Only you can stop babies from being
01:03:21
exhibited in PTO [laughter] Museum. >> I just send people random pictures throughout the year. I'm like, donate
01:03:30
again [laughter] to stop the babies. This is >> This is the baby you saved [laughter]
01:03:36
>> from being in a circus museum. >> He's now eight and out of the circus museums for six years. [laughter]
01:03:44
Oh, >> what the [ __ ] are we even talking about? Was taken into custody and she was
01:03:51
charged with fraud. [laughter] >> Like, I'll be if I do that fraudulence. >> But Henry Clinton quickly got the
01:03:58
charges dismissed when he pointed out the lengths that the prosecutor's office had gone to like your client [laughter]
01:04:05
went to. >> It's pretty bad on both sides. >> People tighten her cabinet. Nevertheless, Emma's scheme had been
01:04:11
exposed and her reputation completely ruined. >> Yeah. Tagged. >> Both of which had a seriously negative
01:04:16
effect on the surrogate court's decision in the estate case. >> Yeah. >> Clinton did his best to salvage what he
01:04:21
could, arguing that the pregnancy and the baby shouldn't influence the claim of widows benefits being considered by a
01:04:27
court. But like it should because she was trying to fake an heir to get the entire thing. It's also like if it
01:04:33
shouldn't matter, then why the [ __ ] did she go to all that trouble? like she's
01:04:37
the one that kind of made this a thing. >> And on August 24th, Surrogate Bradford
01:04:41
delivered his decision, ruling against Emma Cunningham. >> That's probably good.
01:04:45
>> Although she managed to avoid prosecution for the baby scheme, Emma's reputation was completely [ __ ]
01:04:51
>> Yeah, she stole a baby. >> Shortly after the cases had been resolved, Henry Clinton gave an
01:04:56
interview to the press in which he said, "The public career of Mrs. Cunningham Berdell began with the most startling
01:05:02
and thrilling tragedy. It ended in thoroughly disgusting low comedy. >> Yeah, pretty much. Out of money and
01:05:09
thoroughly disgraced, Emma left New York and headed to California where she eventually remarried. Emma did return to
01:05:16
New York in 1887 and lived with a cousin before dying a year later. >> Emma, >> the murder of Harvey Berdell remains
01:05:23
unsolved. >> Does it? >> And given the number of people with ill will towards him, the pool of suspects
01:05:29
could have been quite large. That's >> that's true. She is very a good suspect, >> but that doesn't mean that there's not
01:05:35
others >> they did say. I mean, I'm not saying she I don't know whether she was like known
01:05:41
as being having like considerable strength or not. >> Yeah. >> Because the doctor did say it would take
01:05:45
a considerably strong person. I also know that rage and pent up aggression can make you strong in the moment.
01:05:51
>> Yeah. Like adrenaline. >> She's also a left-handed person and the doctor said it was right-handed, but the
01:05:55
other doctor said left-handed. So, it's all too much confusion here. >> Wishwashy. Uh but the prosecutor's
01:06:01
office chose to follow the press and public in their pursuit against Emma Cunningham and that's why she was the
01:06:06
number one suspect. >> Right. >> And basically they kind of just went with the narrative of she's a greedy
01:06:11
woman scorned by her equally amoral lover. >> Yeah. >> Which is true. >> Yeah. >> You know, like that is the way it is,
01:06:18
but doesn't make you a murderer. It's true that Emma had hoped that the whole thing with Harvey was going to return
01:06:24
her to a life of wealth and status, but she also just like wanted his love and attention. She was just looking to have
01:06:31
a husband. Yeah. >> Fortunately for Emma, while she may not have been successful at getting either
01:06:36
of those things, but others helped her achieve one small part of her goal in death. In 2007, historian and author
01:06:43
Benjamin Feldman partnered with the Greenwood Cemetery, where Harvey and Emma are buried, to erect two markers
01:06:49
side by side, one representing Harvey and the other Emma. >> Do you think either of them would have
01:06:55
wanted that? >> That's what I wonder. >> Probably not. >> I wonder if Emma would have liked the
01:07:01
>> the facade of it cuz she liked the idea that she was a wife, >> right? >> Didn't necessarily like, you know, he
01:07:07
wasn't great. >> Yeah. I don't think he would have wanted that. I think he would have as much of a
01:07:12
scoundrel as he was. Like >> that's kind of shitty. Did you do that? You know, just because his family
01:07:17
probably didn't want that. >> No, >> it's interesting though. >> Yeah. >> What an ending.
01:07:22
>> I know. >> So now they just have sidebyside markers. >> Damn, that's real weird.
01:07:26
>> Emma Cunningham and the murder of Harvey Berdell. >> You delivered on the twists and the
01:07:30
turns. >> I told you it's a crazy one. >> That was something. >> People were so scandalous in the 1800s.
01:07:36
They were scoundrely and scandaly and >> yell about the the validity of old timey
01:07:42
cases, my friend. >> Yeah, as you should. >> And I'll keep proving that they're good
01:07:47
>> time and time again >> and that they have cane sold. >> Yeah, can parasol parasol stores
01:07:54
>> and placenta cabinets. >> Yeah, [laughter] placenta cabinets. >> Where else are you going to find a
01:07:57
placenta cabinet? >> Exactly. And babies being exhibited in PT Barnum Circus Museum.
01:08:02
>> You won't find that around here. We'll find that because we're going to start a
01:08:05
petition against it. >> Stopping it. >> Yeah. Well, with all that being said, [laughter]
01:08:11
we hope you keep listening >> and we hope you keep it weird, but not so weird that you keep putting the
01:08:17
babies in the circus museums and you don't donate to help. Stop [laughter] it. Stop the madness. Stop those babies
01:08:24
from being exhibited in PT Bonham Circus Museum. >> Please. This is the foundation against
01:08:29
babies being exhibited in PT Barnum Circus Museum. We're workshopping today. >> It'll get snappier. [laughter]
01:08:43
[music] >> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music]