00:00:06
Hey weirdos. I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Mob Bed. [Music] This is Mor. >> Hi honey. How are you?
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>> I'm good. This is where we chitchat a little bit. Yeah, you you better get used to it. Okay. This is where you fast
00:00:36
forward if you don't like the banter. >> We just talk like that the entire Everybody's like I actually don't like
00:00:41
it either. >> Even the people who like it are like go [ __ ] yourselves. >> Go [ __ ] yourselves with that.
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>> It's mob in the morning. >> It is. And you know um I got we got a stomach bug in the house.
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>> No, no, no. Don't say that because if it's a full-blown stomach bug, it's going to blow through everybody.
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>> No, I mean, I'm not saying it's like neurovirus or anything. Neurovirus will blow through everybody. It might just be
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like a little >> little virus virus. That's all. Um, >> yeah, we had a my fellow parents will
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will understand um that nothing is good when when the pukin starts. You hold your breath for a
00:01:18
couple of days, especially if you have other people in the house. Um, we're getting through it. You know, it was
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just a tough night. I didn't really sleep last night. >> I'm here almost against my will today.
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>> Yeah. >> She came over to me this morning and I said, "Hello, sweet one. Stay away."
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>> You were like, "Hi there." >> I said, "Oh, stay away." >> I said, "Oh, good to see you."
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>> But honestly, she's like she's a real one because >> she's so funny. >> She just she It's my youngest and she
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throws things off like it's nobody's [ __ ] business. >> You got to say how she came down the
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stairs. She came down the cuz I was just awake all night. Like that's that's just
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the way it is. And so I came downstairs very early and just decided to sit by myself downstairs.
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>> Needed a minute to >> rec. Just like you know what? I'm just going to sit by myself until everybody
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wakes up. And she comes tearing downstairs. She slept she slept like pretty good towards the like morning,
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you know. >> And so she came tearing downstairs and I was like, "Oh, hey girlfriend. Like how
00:02:17
you feeling?" And she goes, "Amazing." And she just like throws her hands up in the air.
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>> And I was like, "Great. I don't." So that's wonderful that you feel amazing. Yeah. She's She's a trooper.
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>> I love her. >> Um we're all tired. >> Yeah. >> And you know, it's just one of those
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things. >> I didn't even deal with that. Luckily, I left just in time yesterday. I got a
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text like an hour after I got home. >> Just in time. I knew it was coming. I felt it in my gut.
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>> Yeah. because I just know her and I know her face and her actions. >> I was hanging out with Elena after work
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and like the kids were off at activities and stuff and that's when she didn't she
00:02:53
started feeling like crappy and she walked in and she said, "I have a headache and my tummy hurts." And I
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said, "It was so good to see you guys. >> Goodbye. I loved hanging out. Good luck
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with this. I'm home." >> I literally looked at John and I was like, "I just know it.
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>> I got a text." >> No, you're just like hour later. >> She's not showing cuz at first she just
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had a headache. >> Oh, that's what it was. But she didn't look right. >> And she just something about her her
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coloring and I just know her. I just know it's it's like a it's a mama thing. You just know you know in your gut.
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>> Just her vibe too. I said I'm getting the [ __ ] out of here. >> Off. >> Um yeah, it's and I'm one of like I
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don't know how like u fellow people who take care of other people feel because this can be of any age and any
00:03:35
persuasion. Uh, but like the one of those things that like you fear as when you have kids is like that you're like,
00:03:45
I have to take care of someone else's puke. Like that's scary. If you don't like if you're not good with that stuff,
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that's a fear. >> If you don't like puke, >> I mean, no one likes puke, but like some
00:03:53
people are just not phased by it really. Like, which I envy. >> Weirdly, I'm not.
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>> That's the thing. Like, I'm >> I mean, I don't have kids. >> I don't like it. Like, I don't I don't
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like watching it in a movie. I don't like watching it anywhere. It immediately makes me feel nauseous.
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>> Yeah. >> And so, but then you have kids and you I'm still in that place where like like
00:04:12
yesterday as she was not feeling well, I was like, "Oh no, she's going to like I
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get very nervous and then like John's the calm one." >> Yeah. >> And then as soon as it happens,
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>> I'm totally fine. Yeah. >> Like I can jump right into like console, clean up, it's the anticipation of it
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that is the worst part for me. >> And John can handle that anticipation so well. So, I think it's it works very
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well cuz he's able to chill with the anticipation and I can go like full into while it happens.
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>> Yeah. I've been here for other ones and usually like there's been times where
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they're like just with me and like you're doing something and I'm like, "Oh, they yacked." You're just like
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>> and I just start cleaning it. >> Yeah. You're like, "Oh, here we go." >> I I like, you know, yacked a lot in my
00:04:54
earlier days of partying. So, my friends yakked and I helped them. We We were all
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yakking together. >> Yeah. Everybody's just yacking. >> Some used to yak. >> So, yeah. That's um
00:05:02
>> that's yak talk. That's puking with morbid today. Um, but everybody stay stay healthy out there because those
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summer viruses are a killer. >> I know. >> Um, and yeah, we've gone like a long time without something like that and it
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was bound to happen. >> Here you are. So, here we are. >> Here you are. And you have the odds are,
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you know, odds are against you. >> Yeah. The odds are not in our favor. So, >> no.
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>> But that's why we might be a little a little kooky today. Little crazy >> cuz I have um very limited sleep behind
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me. >> I've been sleeping like [ __ ] this week. Yeah, we the sleep has been shitty this
00:05:33
week. I think it might have something to do with like the heat wave that the East
00:05:36
Coast got, which was [ __ ] gnarly. You know what? >> I'm ready. I'm ready for September and
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October. >> You need to get there with me. >> Now I get it. I was sitting in my office
00:05:46
the other day and the AC like it was working, but it wasn't. And I we're so lucky to have AC. Like I thank my lucky
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stars all the time. But when it's so hot like that, I think it broke like 98 or something like that. And when it's so
00:05:58
hot like that, it just can't catch up upstairs. >> Oh, we broke a hundred last this week.
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>> Yeah, that makes sense. So, I was sitting upstairs and I was just like, "Oh, [ __ ] Just give me September."
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>> Yeah, >> cuz I like my house at least, even when it's like that outside, I like my house
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to be [ __ ] freezing so that I can sit there in my sweatshirt and pretend like it's like it's
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>> cozy weather. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I I'll put the fireplace on and everything. >> Yeah.
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>> Yeah. >> That's what I'm saying. >> But not when the AC is not working. >> No.
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>> Like properly. >> I just can't. It's nothing for me. I've said it before, I'll say it again.
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There's nothing for me. >> I know. >> Uh in summer, but but we'll get through it. You know, we're we we're through
00:06:35
June, >> so almost essentially >> you're in the future. >> Yeah, you guys are through June right
00:06:41
now. Um so that's good. >> Once you get to July 4th, summer's halfway over. There you go. So that's
00:06:46
that's all I'm thinking of. And we got a lot of stuff planned for the summer that
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is going to be fun and make it go by fast. >> My god. And once we're done with the
00:06:53
summer, >> I'm serious. It's going to be amazing. >> Fall is going to be a thing of [ __ ]
00:07:00
beauty in so many ways. >> Fall. Seriously amazing. >> Seriously, it's going to be amazing.
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>> I can't wait. >> Can't wait. Uh, so yeah, I we were watching I think we mentioned this
00:07:13
again. I have no idea when episodes come out, but that won't be a thing for too much longer. Um
00:07:19
>> it we were talking about it on like uh the spooky episode, the Crescent >> Hotel episode that Ash did.
00:07:27
>> Um I think we were we might have been talking about it before the episode. I don't know if we talked about it on um
00:07:32
>> what were we saying? >> Cuz you just are you're just my friends so I don't know if I tell you like in
00:07:37
real life or not. Uh but we were talking about ghost hunters because I think um we were talking about how like taps had
00:07:43
gone to some other place. I think we did it before the episode. >> Yeah. And um I was saying how like I was
00:07:48
watching Ghost Hunters for an episode like to look at this particular place and as I was watching it I was like all
00:07:57
I want to do I've never felt a stronger urge in my life than to sit in a room that's completely decorated for
00:08:05
Halloween and fall. >> That's going that's the other thing. I want my [ __ ] Halloween decorations
00:08:10
>> ready and I want it to be cool outside. I want to watch the leaves falling outside my window.
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>> I want to have something that I just fall baked in the oven. >> I want to have something delicious.
00:08:20
>> Oh, and I want to be so basic. I want a [ __ ] pumpkin spice. >> I want to be wearing a Halloween
00:08:24
sweatshirt. >> Yes. >> And I want to have a cozy blanket on me. >> Halloween themed.
00:08:29
>> Halloween themed. And I want to be watching just a marathon of ghost hunters, scariest places on earth.
00:08:36
>> Hocus pocus. >> Hocus pocus. Food Network Halloween baking challenge. Oh, I want to be doing
00:08:42
all that. I've never felt a stronger urge in my life. >> Well, I'm going to cry is the thing.
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>> I feel it. I'm going to [ __ ] cry right now. >> So deep in my soul, I can't even contain
00:08:54
it. >> You won't get this, but it's like that Spongebob episode when he's like, I need
00:08:59
it. >> I mean, that's how I feel. I get it. Uh, but yeah, we're almost there, everybody.
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And if you love summer, then I hope you're having a wonderful summer. >> I I like summer. I'm having a fine one,
00:09:09
but I'm ready for fall. >> I'm ready. >> I've had like a month once my birthday passes, which is technically in spring,
00:09:15
but in my mind it's summer. I'm like, "All right, all done. All done. >> All done. I'm all done."
00:09:20
>> That's what you could say. >> Uh, but yeah. Oh, and in August, you know, my the paperback of The Butcher
00:09:26
Game is coming out. >> Hey, >> I just received the copies. >> I got mine. >> I'm going to post a I'll post a picture
00:09:31
of them cuz they're very delicious. They look like the first She's thick. >> And uh they look like the the Butcher
00:09:38
and the Ren paperback. So, they're going to I know that's important. It's important to me too in a series for them
00:09:43
to look nice together on the shelf. >> Oh, they're going to look great. >> These look nice together on the shelf.
00:09:47
So, >> Oh, I haven't even put mine on the shelf yet. >> Yeah, they look they have the same kind
00:09:51
of like matte material and everything. So, >> I'm in the market for new bookshelves.
00:09:55
>> Hell yeah. >> Yeah, we're redoing um my little like corner room. >> Yeah. >> And the shelves that we have are too
00:10:01
much right now. Unless I got to get new ones. >> Yeah, I love a good bookshelf. >> And I'm going to put your your books
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>> Hell yeah. >> on display on display each and every day. Every day. >> Hell yeah. Well, maybe I'll see you guys
00:10:11
in August because maybe we'll do um a couple of events for the book. You know, >> I don't know. I do. I'll tell you later.
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>> You know, I know. They just don't know. >> You don't know. But we'll see you maybe.
00:10:23
>> Yeah. Who knows? So, make sure you're pre-ordering the paperback of the butcher game.
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>> Tinyurl.com. You can get it anywhere. You You know, you get books. You can order books, you know. Go do it. I'll
00:10:34
love you forever. I will anyways. But >> can I ask you something? >> It'll be deeper.
00:10:38
>> Is your book available in this like that gigantic print? >> I don't know. I Every time I This is the
00:10:45
It's my fault. Every single time, you know, you know this. Every single [ __ ] time I order a book on Amazon, I
00:10:53
either I have a new problem now. So, I ordered one book like a couple months ago and I and it came in like big print
00:10:59
meant for like you know if you have like some kind of like >> like if you're older like you have like
00:11:03
a vision impairment. Yeah. I don't and I don't want that copy but I got that copy
00:11:08
and I was like crap. And then I just got for our book club book. I ordered it and
00:11:14
I got this like weird small edition that's like so small that I'm like what is wrong with me?
00:11:21
>> What the hell? >> I don't know. What the hell? >> What the hell? You just got you got to
00:11:25
really read that that description before you buy it. >> Maybe they should make that [ __ ] part
00:11:31
bigger. >> Yeah, there you go. That should be a big >> one bigger. It should >> I got this one book and it's in the most
00:11:36
giant print I've ever seen and it made the book look like so much longer. I was like, "What the [ __ ] did I order? Why is
00:11:44
this book 4,000 pages long?" >> And then the next time it's like this tiny ass book with like [ __ ] up
00:11:49
margins. I was like, >> that's crazy. >> What is going on? >> What? Yeah, that's crazy. I don't know
00:11:55
if mine is available in that, but uh I guess read descriptions before you buy books.
00:11:59
>> Yeah, I guess so. You know, that's a PSA. >> That's a PSA. >> My life. >> Uh and you can like you can pre-order it
00:12:05
from anywhere. Amazon. You can do it from Barnes & Noble, small bookstores. We love an indie bookstore.
00:12:11
>> Oh. Um Unlike Unlikely Story. >> Unlikely Story. We love Unlikely Story. >> We love that bookstore. We love the
00:12:17
people that work. >> Staff of Unlikely Story is a a [ __ ] ch treasure chest of humans. It really
00:12:24
is just >> We love them. >> I love them. All right, but that's enough. >> That's all like the good stuff. That's
00:12:30
all happy stuff. >> You know, we're about to get into >> some [ __ ] >> Yeah, you're here
00:12:36
>> because you clicked on this episode and you saw the title. >> Yeah. >> So, you know that we're talking about
00:12:41
the bombing of United Air Flight 629. >> We are. I also know I have a fear of flying.
00:12:47
>> Yeah. You know what? I think everyone in the collective nation has a fear of I
00:12:52
have a fear of flying right now. >> Here's the thing. It's still very safe. >> Yeah, totally.
00:12:57
>> You know, like it's still, you know, we're we're going through it a little bit right now.
00:13:00
>> Am I going to do it? No. >> Am I going to do it anytime? >> Am I going to tell you what to do? No.
00:13:05
>> And this does, just to make it, so you already know going into this trigger warning, we're talking about a plane
00:13:12
crash. >> Yes. Um, but it's not a crash in the sense that it just crashed. It exploded.
00:13:17
>> Oh. >> Because of a bomb, obviously, because it's the bombing of >> Yes. >> Um, this was also in the 50s, the 1950s
00:13:25
when >> less protocol. >> Less protocol, but it was still very safe consider it was still a very safe
00:13:31
form of travel in comparison to everything else. So, that'll give you a little pro like I need to tell myself
00:13:38
that all the time. So, I'm just telling you that in case you also are fearing things right now. That's fair.
00:13:43
>> I'm trying to help me and I'm trying to help you. >> Um, also, again, I've said this every
00:13:46
time that we've talked about plane crashes and I talk about my fear of flying. Follow pilots on Tik Tok.
00:13:52
>> Follow them on Tik Tok. They will make you feel better. They will explain things about noises and everything else.
00:13:58
And when a plane crash happens, they'll so many pilots maybe I'll find some names and I'll give you some will update
00:14:05
you to tell you why that happened so you can feel a little more in the know and understanding.
00:14:10
>> It's rare >> and why it's rare. >> So again, if you have a fear of flying, I'm with you. I feel you.
00:14:16
>> So let's start. >> Okay. United Airlines flight 629 started out um in New York on the late morning
00:14:24
of November 1st, 1955. It was stopping briefly in Chicago just for some minor repairs, which you know,
00:14:31
planes need to do. It was like a propeller part. Um, and then it was moving on to its scheduled stop in
00:14:37
Denver where it landed a little after 6:00 p.m. The plane, which was called the mainline Denver, was a Douglas DC6B,
00:14:46
which is a 105 ft piston-powered passenger and cargo plane that was pretty popular with the US military
00:14:54
actually before the end of World War II. >> Oh, wow. And uh that's when Douglas started retrofitting them to be part of
00:15:02
like commercial airlines essentially like compete in the travel market. >> The model was typically operated by
00:15:08
three to four crew members with an additional 1 to two flight attendants and could accommodate up to 89
00:15:14
passengers. >> That's a small plane. >> Yeah. So in 1955, air travel for just leisure was just starting to outpace
00:15:23
train and car travel. Well, it was really not a big thing before this. Uh, it was becoming a little more affordable
00:15:29
than it had previously been. So, people were starting to be able to take planes places.
00:15:33
>> As a result, many of the passengers on flight 629 were taking their first ride
00:15:38
on a plane that day. >> Oh, including >> That must be wild. Especially like everybody takes a first plane ride at
00:15:47
some point obviously, but you think about taking that first plane ride when plane rides are a new thing. Yeah,
00:15:54
>> that's [ __ ] terrifying. >> That's terrifying. Like that's a whole different cuz you have at least when you
00:15:58
take your first plane ride now, you can kind of like know what to expect a little bit.
00:16:01
>> A whole history of like safety protocols and technology and >> you can watch a video about what how it
00:16:07
[ __ ] happens. >> You can hear a pilot tell you how it all works out. >> I even the first time I like was
00:16:13
cognitive in flu. Well, I was cognitive as a 2-year-old, but you know, I had more cognitive ability as a 19-year-old
00:16:18
or Yeah. No, I was 14. Anyways, when you start [ __ ] barreling down the runway before you take off, I remember being
00:16:25
like, "Are we supposed to be doing that?" >> Oh, I still I've been on how many plane
00:16:29
trips and every time I ask, "Are we supposed to be doing this?" >> Like, it's scary.
00:16:33
>> And then when it lifts off, I say, "Am I supposed to be doing this?" >> Yeah. And then you're just floating in a
00:16:37
[ __ ] tube in the sky. Obviously, I know you're not like floating, but >> No, but it's just
00:16:40
>> it's wild. >> The whole time you're like, "Are we supposed to be doing this?"
00:16:43
>> So, back to my original point. I cannot imagine doing that for the first time
00:16:47
with absolutely baseline zero information. >> Like that would be a lot. >> Yeah.
00:16:52
>> Um so these passengers included Patricia and Gerald Lipkkey who were flying to
00:16:57
see Patricia's sister in Portland and also James and Sarah Dory who were on their way to see their son who they
00:17:03
hadn't seen in 9 years. H James Dory had been sick for some time and the couple decided to take the flight after his
00:17:10
doctor warned him quote his bad arteries might not last long enough to make the trip by car or train.
00:17:16
>> Oh, >> so like this was like their last ditch effort. >> Yeah. >> Others were taking this plane to connect
00:17:22
to longer flights like Helen Fitzpatrick and her one-year-old son James. >> Oh god. um they were going to visit his
00:17:28
father in Japan and Daisy King who was traveling to Seattle to catch a connecting flight to Alaska where she
00:17:36
was visiting her daughter. >> When you really put all that, that's what always kills me about these
00:17:42
like like plane crashes and these kind of things is like when you start looking into like the actual people on board and
00:17:48
they're doing such like >> normal things like I'm going to see my daughter, I'm going to see my dad, I'm
00:17:53
going to see my sister. >> Yeah. like these kind of things always just like oh they tear me
00:17:58
>> it's heavy >> in two they really do >> now at the time the flight engineers union were 8 days into a strike
00:18:04
protesting United's recent change in regulation that required all future flight engineers hired by the company
00:18:11
also to be qualified as pilots >> I feel like that's kind of fair >> feels it feels right to me but I
00:18:18
situation with a significant number of the airlines flight crew out on strike the company had scrambled to find a crew
00:18:25
that could take the flight. Finally, they settled on pilot Lee Hall, co-pilot Donald White, and flight engineer Samuel
00:18:33
Arthur. Several passengers on the flight had been booked on other flights that had been cancelled because of the
00:18:40
strike. >> Oh, that always hits so much harder with a story like this. >> So, did So, it was actually relief to
00:18:46
them when they got confirmation they would be flying out of Denver on flight 629. Mhm.
00:18:52
>> That always just sends me when they're not even supposed to be on this. >> Exactly.
00:18:57
>> Or the people who just miss it, you know, like those kind of things are just like those stories always send chills on
00:19:03
my >> very final destination and it like freaks me out. >> Now, when the plane arrived in Denver,
00:19:09
all but 19 passengers got off with the remaining going to Seattle. >> Right. After the baggage had been loaded
00:19:15
into the cargo hold and the cabin had been readied, the 20 new passengers started boarding. Several of them
00:19:21
stopping along the way to make a last minute purchase of life insurance, which I guess was like a common occurrence.
00:19:27
>> Oh, that's interesting. >> Yeah, it was common um at during this time period for those traveling by air
00:19:32
to purchase short-term life insurance to cover their time in the air. >> Oh, wow. That's interesting. which you
00:19:40
could purchase easily from a vending machine in the airport. >> What? >> Yeah. >> I never knew. That's crazy.
00:19:49
>> I had no idea. And also that would send me into cardiac arrest. >> Yeah. >> Having to purchase life insurance for my
00:19:57
time in the air. >> No. Can't do it. >> That's crazy. >> Can't do it, my friends.
00:20:02
>> Also, when you think about it, like life insurance is just death insurance. >> It's really It's wild. Like they really
00:20:07
they marketed that a much better they all sat at that table and they said no we can't call it that.
00:20:11
>> Yeah. They were like this is marketing genius to call it life insurance. >> Damn. From a vending machine.
00:20:17
>> Yes. >> Also just like I can't imagine pressing A2 getting my life insurance and being
00:20:22
like let me happily board this. >> Just jump on here cuz and it's like the passenger would just purchase the policy
00:20:28
sign the copy produced by the vending machine then drop it in a lock box to be collected by an agent at the end of the
00:20:34
day. >> Wow. In this case, passengers purchase policies from Continental Casualty and
00:20:41
Mutual of Omaha at 25 cents for each $6,250 of coverage with a maximum coverage amount of $125,000.
00:20:51
>> This is wild, >> isn't that? Like that blew my mind. >> Fascinating. >> Yeah, that really is really fascinating.
00:20:56
>> I wonder when that stopped. >> I know. I wonder that. >> You're like, "Hey, that's not the best
00:21:00
idea." So, after being delayed several minutes by a late passenger, flight 629 finally took off from the runway at 6:52
00:21:07
p.m. >> Those late [ __ ] passengers. Get there on time. >> Get there. 4 minutes later, at 6:56
00:21:14
p.m., Lee Hall radioed the tower and reported they had passed over the Denver um Omni Station, a radio broadcasting
00:21:21
tower several miles northeast of the airport. Several minutes later, air traffic controllers at Stapleton Airport
00:21:28
reported seeing a large flash in the sky, >> followed by two balls of fire falling
00:21:34
towards the earth. >> Oh god. >> At the same time, a farmer just outside Longmont, Colorado, reported seeing what
00:21:41
he described as quote, "a brilliant ball of fire that he said he watched just tear through the sky for nearly 2
00:21:48
minutes before it crash landed in a field about 8 miles away." >> Wow. It wasn't long before authorities
00:21:54
learned what those individuals had witnessed. It was the explosion midair of United Airlines Flight 629 and the
00:22:03
immediate death of all 44 passengers on board. >> Oh, that's awful. I'm going to read out
00:22:10
the names of all 44 passengers. >> Yeah. >> So, just sit tight. Jack Ambrose, Samuel Arthur, Bro
00:22:18
Brextorm, Irene Brestrom, John Bomlan, Frank Brennan Jr., Clarissa Bunch, Thomas Crouch,
00:22:27
Barbara Cruz, Carl Dist, John Jardens, James Dory, Sarah Dory, Charles Edwards, Clara Edwards, Helen Fitzpatrick, James
00:22:38
Fitzpatrick, Daisy King, Lee Hall, Goldie Herman, Vernal Herman, Elton Hickok, Jacqueline Hines, Marian
00:22:47
Hobgood, John Jungles, Gerald Lipkkey, Helen Lipkkey, Leila Mlan, Frederick Morgan, Suzanne Morgan, Peggy Pedicord,
00:22:57
James Pervvis, Herbert Robertson, Harold Sandstead, Sally Scoffield, Jesse Seismore, James
00:23:06
Earl Strud, Clarence Todd, Minnie Van Valon, Ralph Vanalon, Donald Dwight, and Alma Windsor.
00:23:15
>> When you read them out like that, it really makes you Yeah. like you you grasp how many people just in the blink.
00:23:25
>> Yeah. >> Like it's it sends chills down my spine. >> It does. >> And again, the youngest on board and the
00:23:33
only real child on board was James Fitzpatrick who was one years old. >> Oh, >> yeah.
00:23:40
>> Um and I believe the oldest person on board was Leila Mlan who was 80 years old.
00:23:45
>> Oh, >> I know. >> Lived to 80. And that's how you go. That's awful. All you can hope is that
00:23:51
it was so fast that nobody felt anything. >> I hope nobody even knew. >> Yeah. Which when you know what happened
00:23:58
here, it feels like >> nobody could have possibly had any idea what was happening. That's good. You
00:24:03
know what I mean? That's that's the only hope here. >> Now again, although they were more
00:24:08
common in the past than they are today, airline crashes have always been a pretty uncommon occurrence. Mhm.
00:24:15
>> Cuz again, and John's always telling me this, we see them on the news because
00:24:21
they're so uncommon. So, >> yeah. It's like if we saw all the the car crashes, you couldn't even have one
00:24:30
24-hour news station covering them all. It wouldn't even >> So, I know it's hard to think of it that
00:24:35
way. Sometimes that doesn't comfort me at all, but it might work for some of you. Mhm.
00:24:39
>> But however, flight 629 was the second plane to crash in the region near the Rocky Mountain Range in less than a
00:24:45
month. >> Oh wow. >> The previous crash was uh had occurred about 100 miles away on October 6th
00:24:52
after crashing into the mountain side and killing all 66 passengers on board. The crash the previous month was the
00:25:00
worst airline disaster in the United States until that period. Oh, and while the explosion of flight 629 didn't
00:25:07
surpass that disaster in, you know, casualty number, it was no less tragic. >> Yeah. Unlike several other crashes which
00:25:14
were relatively well contained to the area where the accident actually occurred, the explosion of 629 created a
00:25:22
massive crash site, dropping large pieces of flaming debris, luggage, and rows of seats with passengers still in
00:25:31
them into the yards and fields of the rural community of Longmont, Colorado. Conrad Hop, a farmer who lived near the
00:25:39
primary crash site, remembered hearing a big explosion like a bomb went off and he ran outside to see what happened and
00:25:47
he said, quote, "I hollered back to my wife that she'd better call the fire department. Then I turned around and the
00:25:52
plane blew up in the air." Oh god. >> Which is literally my nightmare. >> Yeah. >> I have literal nightmares of seeing a
00:25:59
plane fall out of the sky. It's like the worst thing I can possibly imagine seeing.
00:26:03
>> Do you remember when my mom did? >> Yes. like actually saw one. >> Yeah. Like into a parking lot.
00:26:08
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> That would I'd never recover from that. >> Yeah. >> Now, um Martha Hop recalled, "I ran
00:26:15
outside and I remember all the roads were white with lights. Everybody was already out on the roads doing the same
00:26:21
thing and the hops were just two of a ton of local residents who were rushing out to the Weld County beat field where
00:26:28
the main portion of the plane crashed down, hoping there was something they could just do to help." Mhm.
00:26:33
>> Um that's when you like see the like >> the humanity >> the humanity there where people are just
00:26:39
rushing to this flaming thing that fell out of the sky just to see if they can help.
00:26:43
>> Yeah. >> Like that's something. >> But people pe peopleing. >> That is peopleing cuz there's people
00:26:51
going to people and then there's people going to people. >> Yeah. >> There's a peopleing. But when Longmont
00:26:56
Police Chief Keith Cunningham and the other first responders arrived in the field, it was pretty apparent that there
00:27:02
was nothing that anybody could do to help. Um, after just a few minutes of surveying the huge amount of wreckage in
00:27:08
the field, a patrolman radio dispatched to report no ambulances are necessary. >> Oh,
00:27:14
>> yeah. It was fall and the sun went down early at that time of year, so it was
00:27:19
fully dark by the time a full team of state and local investigators came to the scene. despite the lack of any real
00:27:26
natural light, um it became very evident early on that there was really going to
00:27:31
be no survivors. Um author Andrew Field said that they immediately went in there
00:27:37
looking for somebody to help, but it was pretty quickly determined like >> there's no way.
00:27:42
>> There's nothing we can do, which is so sad. >> Yeah. Law enforcement and fire officials
00:27:46
along with over 100 volunteers spread out across the field and surrounding area to look for bodies and potential
00:27:53
survivors because even though there was no survivors in this particular debris field,
00:27:58
>> they were just hoping. >> Yeah. And again, large crash site. >> Yeah. And uh the author Field said as
00:28:05
they would find bodies, they would station a man with a flashlight to indicate where the body was. So somebody
00:28:11
would just stand there with a flashlight next to where a body was so that they could just find them all
00:28:16
>> because they were so scattered. >> Yeah. >> Um he said and pretty soon the entire
00:28:20
field was filled with little points of light. >> Oh, that's such a >> which horrible visual.
00:28:27
>> And obviously this experience would weigh very heavily on anyone and it really weighed heavily on Conrad Hop Jr.
00:28:33
the the farmer who first saw it. He was just 18 years old at the time. >> Oh god.
00:28:38
>> His father had seen it first. I should say senior had seen it first. The junior
00:28:42
was 18 years old at the time. And he said finding a body was fairly simple. But later on to try and pick that body
00:28:49
up and put it in a body bag that was the tough part. >> Yeah. Yeah. That will change you as an
00:28:54
individual no matter what age you are. But >> 18, >> that's that's a lot. >> As the Stapleton air traffic controllers
00:29:01
had observed, the plane had essentially broken into two large sections which tore 4t deep holes into the earth when
00:29:08
they upon impact. Wow. >> And burned for hours after landing in the field. The nose of the plane, which
00:29:14
had avoided catching fire, was badly smashed, which indicated that it had been the first part to hit the ground.
00:29:22
Inside the cockpit, the bodies of the pilot, co-pilot, and engineer could all be seen still strapped to their seats.
00:29:28
Oh, that's haunting. It's very upsetting. Fortunately for investigators, the two main sections of
00:29:34
the plane had landed mostly intact. Um, they were super mangled. really damaged by, you know, the seemingly in
00:29:42
unstoppable blaze at this point that is just keeps going because it's being fed by a steady stream of jet fuel that's
00:29:50
leaking from the engines. So, it's just nonstop fire. >> By 900 p.m., the National Guard had been
00:29:56
dispatched to the scene to hold back spectators, reporters, and >> people going to people steal. Yeah.
00:30:03
>> Yeah. giving firefighters the space, you know, to finally extinguish the flames.
00:30:09
A short time later, electrical rigging had been set up, and the entire field was soon brightly illuminated, showing
00:30:15
the full extent of the carnage. Jim Matlac, a publisher of the Longmont Times Call, said, "There was nothing we
00:30:22
could do but cover up the bodies. There wasn't a sign of life." Mhm. >> Few places in the US are set up to deal
00:30:29
with this kind of disaster, this kind of largecale disaster. >> Yeah. >> Least of all rural Longmont. Like they
00:30:37
were just not ready for this. So the coroner set up a makeshift morg in the Gley Armory, which was a former National
00:30:43
Guard training center, and it occasionally served as an event space, and they had to use it as a morg.
00:30:49
>> Oh. >> The space was inadequate, >> I would think, >> to say the least. Uh, but it at least
00:30:55
provided enough private space for the coroner and local medical providers to try to work on identifying victims while
00:31:02
the local Western Union office worked late into the night contacting the families of those passengers through the
00:31:08
manifest. >> That's awful. >> Yeah. Um, in addition, managers from the Mountain State's Telephone and Telegraph
00:31:14
Company sent more than 40 technicians to the crash site with instructions to add
00:31:18
as many telephone lines and equipment as were necessary for responders to complete all of their work that they
00:31:25
were doing. >> Essentially, volunteers and service providers just worked nonstop to build
00:31:32
out a literal infrastructure to respond to this tragedy. They had to literally create the infrastructure as it was
00:31:40
happening, which is pretty impressive. >> It is. And you think about like the time, the fact that this was so
00:31:44
unexpected. >> This is 195. >> Very little resources. Like, yeah, >> that's very impressive.
00:31:50
>> The following morning, representatives from United Airlines held a press conference to share what little they
00:31:56
knew about the explosion and the passengers who died. The airline confirmed that by 7:00 a.m. all the
00:32:02
bodies had been removed to the armory and technicians had started examining the wreckage for clues of what the [ __ ]
00:32:08
happened here. The representatives declined to comment on what could have caused the explosion, saying that
00:32:14
witness reports varied a little bit. Some saying it exploded in the air and others saying it exploded when it hit
00:32:20
ground. >> Right. It one representative said it's difficult for us to say what took place.
00:32:25
That probably will have to be determined by the civil aeronautics board. Although
00:32:29
they were unwilling to identify what the hell happened here, United's president,
00:32:33
WA Patterson, told the press, "All evidence now strongly indicates this accident resulted from an explosion in
00:32:39
the air." Now, formed as a federal agency in 1938, the purpose of the CAB, which is the Civil Aeronautics Board,
00:32:48
was to regulate commercial air travel in the United States. Um, but CABB was also
00:32:54
responsible for investigating accidents involving air travel, trying to figure out what the [ __ ] happened and to
00:33:00
determine who or what is at fault in these situations. >> After receiving the report about the
00:33:06
explosion of flight 629, CAB dispatched a team of investigators to the site led by veteran investigator Jack Parall.
00:33:16
Now, the biggest challenge that Jack and his team faced was how [ __ ] huge this
00:33:21
crash site site was and how spread out it was. >> Yeah. >> Um it was spread out for more than a
00:33:26
mile and it was like rural land that was an active farm. Um so to move quickly, his team employed a new technique um
00:33:35
where the land was mapped out in a grid and every piece of debris from the wreckage was tagged with a label and
00:33:41
marked on a grid map. >> That's a smart way to go about that actually. >> Interesting. Yeah, I thought that was
00:33:46
really smart. >> It weirdly makes you think of when you're Did you ever learn that in art
00:33:51
class where you like map out a photo that you want to recreate and then you do it piece by piece by piece?
00:33:57
>> That's what it made me think of. >> I think it's the same idea. Like literally the same idea. Now, once
00:34:02
everything had been tagged and mapped, the entire wreckage and every piece of debris was transported to a airplane
00:34:09
hanger nearby where it was literally recreated exactly as it had been in the beat field
00:34:16
>> laid out completely. >> Oh, yeah. >> Wow. >> Cuz they were able to do that with the
00:34:20
grid. >> So, yeah. Wow. It really is. >> Literally recreating. It's the exact same premise.
00:34:26
>> Wow. >> Yeah. That's so strange to picture in your mind, >> isn't it? >> Now, in his 15 years with the CAB, Jack
00:34:34
Parall had never seen anything like this. Uh, the plane hadn't just crashed into something and, you know, mangled
00:34:41
when it hit the ground. It had been shredded by what looked like a massive blast and it sent the passengers and
00:34:48
contents out across a six square mile area as it plummeted to the ground. >> Yeah. Uh as far as partial knew, there
00:34:56
were a few things that could have caused this kind of thing to happen. One explanation was that and he said it was
00:35:03
possible that gas fumes had accumulated in a closed compartment, thus causing an
00:35:08
explosion, but he said it seemed pretty unlikely that there could have been such
00:35:11
a substantial buildup of fumes in such a short period of time. >> Yeah, cuz it hadn't been in the air that
00:35:16
long at that point. And another possible explanation was that a structural flaw in the construction had caused the
00:35:22
fuselage to break apart midair. But this also seemed pretty unlikely since the contents had been blown out across such
00:35:29
a big area which indicated that there was definitely an explosion happening here.
00:35:34
>> Yeah. Of some kind. >> The third and most reasonable explanation was that a combustible item
00:35:39
quote negligently put aboard the plane in the cargo area had exploded. >> Yeah. Now, in 1955, the idea that
00:35:46
somebody would intentionally bomb an airliner seemed pretty [ __ ] wild to most America. Like, it was
00:35:54
unheard of. This is not crazy because I've gone my whole life. >> Yeah. >> Thinking about that every single time I
00:36:00
got on a plane. >> Yeah. which is not unthinkable in any way, which is so >> it just it's so wild to think that you
00:36:09
would back then why would they think that >> that you would ever have a time where
00:36:13
you wouldn't be thinking of that. >> Yeah. >> You know, like I don't remember a time
00:36:17
that we weren't thinking about that. >> It's so Yeah, that's so weird. >> Yeah. Now, this again, this is not to
00:36:22
say like it had never happened before. Like in previous years, a number of flights in other countries had been
00:36:28
sabotaged and blown up, >> right? Um, and in the US there were examples of, you know, suspected
00:36:33
sabotage that couldn't be confirmed and so they were labeled accidents. Like, you know, a 1933 United flight out of
00:36:41
Chicago that exploded over Indiana. It killed all four people on board. But again, the idea that somebody would
00:36:48
intentionally try to kill so many people, including a toddler, >> uh, for any reason, seemed completely
00:36:55
unfathomable to Americans especially. Um, so that's why at this point they were still looking at it as somebody
00:37:02
negligently put something that was combustible. >> Combustible, right? Not somebody points
00:37:06
at a bomb. >> All I keep picturing is dry shampoo, which obviously was not a thing back
00:37:10
then, but that's all I can picture. >> That's all you can think of. Now, fortunately, Jack Parall wasn't most
00:37:15
Americans. partial had been in the industry long enough to know an explosion when he saw
00:37:21
one. And to him, the scene looked very much like the 1949 bombing of a Canadian airliner where an explosive device was
00:37:30
detonated in the cargo hold. >> In that one, it ripped an enormous hole in the side of the plane, killing all 23
00:37:37
people on board. Most significantly, the explosion on flight 629 had ripped the metal of the plane outward at the cargo
00:37:45
hold. Oh, yeah. Which suggested that something contained within the luggage section had indeed exploded.
00:37:52
>> Yeah. >> Um, also the pieces of the wreckage that came from the cargo section smelled like
00:37:56
sulfur. >> Oh. >> Which forensic chemist Charles Wilson determined to be residue from dynamite.
00:38:03
>> Yeah. Um, Andrew Field said a lot of people described it as a firecracker-l like smell that they could detect on the
00:38:10
metal. Finally, among the wreckage, CAB investigators took small bits of metal and copper wire that they finally
00:38:17
determined to be from a timing device. >> This was a straightup bomb. >> Bombing. Yeah. Taken together, these
00:38:25
pieces of evidence all but confirm Jack Parcel's belief that the explosion of flight 629 had indeed been
00:38:33
>> and intentional, >> which must be the last. I mean, I don't know. No answer is ever a good answer
00:38:40
for why something like this happens. But then when you think of like >> somebody set out to kill all these
00:38:46
people, including a toddler >> and why and everybody's gone. How do you investigate that?
00:38:51
>> Exactly. >> That's like that must be so difficult. >> Now, a few days after the investigation
00:38:56
started, chief of the CAB investigation division, James Payton, told reporters, "We found some things that appear
00:39:03
unusual and are investigating the possibility of sabotage." And this was all confirmed a few days later on
00:39:09
November 7th in a report released by United Airlines. In that they stated that authorities discovered evidence of
00:39:16
a bomb type explosion in the number four cargo pit which they believed to be the
00:39:20
cause of the disaster. >> The report said the side walls of the compartment were pushed out and the
00:39:25
floor pulverized and there were gunpowder type odors on sections of the compartment. In his statement to the
00:39:32
press, Parall said, "We don't know what type of explos explosive it is. Frankly,
00:39:36
we're going to have to await the results of the laboratory examination. This is the first midair explosion we've
00:39:42
encountered in some time, and we're exploring it from every angle. After finding evidence of sabotage, James
00:39:48
Payton, chief investigator of the CAB, brought the FBI in to determine if there had been a violation of a federal
00:39:55
statute and to conclusively determine whether the plane had, in fact, been bombed. Until that point, investigators
00:40:01
had been basically proceeding as though the explosion was not they didn't want to like they they
00:40:08
kind of knew it was intentional at this point. Like that's what they were leaning towards, but they couldn't
00:40:13
definitively say it. >> Yeah. >> Until they had >> concrete evidence. So, they were still
00:40:18
proceeding as if it were an accident. Okay. >> As if something exploded unintentionally
00:40:25
in the cargo hood. >> But it's like what? >> Which I think is a firecracker and explos.
00:40:29
>> Yeah. And so they know, but I think it's the safest way to approach it so that
00:40:32
you can >> cuz I think it's better to go like too less than too much cuz it's easier to
00:40:38
add than pull back. >> And you need all the information before you insight like mass panic.
00:40:42
>> Exactly. Um but with the introduction of the FBI, people were starting to be like, I'm thinking this might be
00:40:49
criminal. >> Yeah. That'll make you scratch your chin. >> Yeah. The first hurdle criminal
00:40:53
investigators needed to clear was figuring out why someone would want to blow up this plane in the first place.
00:41:00
>> The first and most obvious suspects were the striking United Airlines employees,
00:41:05
>> uh, whose negotiations and rhetoric had become a little hostile in the days leading up to the bombing.
00:41:10
>> That would be a big escalation. That'd be [ __ ] up. In fact, in the days following the explosion, a
00:41:16
representative for the Transport Workers Union went so far as to imply that, quote, "United might be criminally
00:41:23
liable for the deaths and suggested that all evidence be turned over to a grand jury, quote, for possible manslaughter
00:41:31
charges." >> Oh, [ __ ] Which is like bold. Mhm. >> Uh despite all of that rhetoric, uh the
00:41:37
union and striking employees cooperated very much with investigators and were very quickly ruled out as potential
00:41:43
suspects. >> That's good. >> And they even established a $1,000 reward for information leading to the
00:41:50
arrest of whoever did this. >> Okay, so we got >> They made sure >> different avenue.
00:41:53
>> We did not do this. The union's reward prompted United Airlines to establish its own fund for a reward. And a few
00:42:00
days later, they offered an additional 25,000. Wow. >> For reward for information,
00:42:06
>> which is like good. >> So, everyone did their part here. Like, it wasn't the striking workers.
00:42:10
>> Nice. >> If the union wasn't behind the bombing, which they were not, the most likely
00:42:15
scenario was that whoever bombed this flight had done so to kill one or more of the passengers on board. Like, they
00:42:23
had like a target. >> Yes. >> The passengers on flight 629 were a very varied group in terms of age and
00:42:29
background. Uh but with the exception of a few notable businessmen, they appeared
00:42:34
really not to have any reason that a death of any of these people would benefit anyone. You know, agents went
00:42:40
through the like full background investigations on each passenger. They interviewed family, friends, co-workers.
00:42:47
They went deep to determine, you know, who on the plane might have been a target. But their interviews turned up
00:42:54
absolutely nothing of note. Like nothing. So, the theory that someone was killed for like anything really was kind
00:43:03
of flying out the window because they even went forward and tried to see could somebody be killed for the insurance
00:43:08
money. That went nowhere because only two passengers, Stuart and Suzanne Morgan, bought more than the minimum
00:43:15
coverage. >> Oh, >> and they named their teenage daughters as beneficiaries, right? So, yeah, they
00:43:20
were the ones who were getting the money. So, it wasn't. Now, while several FBI agents interviewed the friends and
00:43:25
families of all the passengers, other agents uh conducted like serious interviews with airline employees at
00:43:33
every single stop along the flight. They went deep. >> Wow. >> Starting with its origin in New York and
00:43:39
then moving on to the Chicago uh stop and finally the last stop in Denver. >> And it was while interviewing the
00:43:46
baggage handlers in Chicago that agents got their first break. Okay. It turned out that when the luggage was being
00:43:53
loaded at the airport in Chicago, one of the baggage handlers lost his keys and was certain he dropped them at the cargo
00:44:01
hold. When the plane landed in Denver a short time later, baggage handlers at Stapleton completely unloaded the number
00:44:08
four cargo pit and found the keys. >> Okay. >> But when they began repacking the cargo
00:44:14
hold, only cargo from Denver was loaded into the number four cargo pit. So this is they're following this now. Based on
00:44:23
the evidence, investigators knew the explosive device had detonated in the number four cargo pit. And the testimony
00:44:30
from the baggage handlers indicated that particular cargo pit contained only luggage from the passengers boarding in
00:44:38
Denver, >> which meant that the bomb could only have been put on the plane at Stapleton
00:44:43
airport. >> Right. Fortunately, when agents checked the registry, they learned that only
00:44:48
three passengers on flight 629 had checked their bags. Oh [ __ ] And based on the recorded size and weight of the
00:44:55
luggage, only one of the three could have contained an explosive sizable enough to take down the entire plane.
00:45:03
>> For a second, we just have to really think about the time period where we're investigating this. That's impressive
00:45:09
detective work. Like >> that is truly truly impressive. >> 1955. >> Yeah. >> That's like real investigator work right
00:45:19
there. >> Wow. Now this suitcase >> who was it >> belonged to 53year-old Daisy King.
00:45:26
>> I did not think this was going to be a woman. >> So in their initial interviews, FBI
00:45:31
agents spoke to Daisy's son, Jack Graham, but that interview yielded really nothing significant.
00:45:37
But now they believed her to be the one who brought the bomb on the plane. So they were like, "Okay, we have some
00:45:43
different questions to ask Jack now." >> Yeah. >> From Daisy's son, Jack and daughter,
00:45:48
Helen, agents learned that life with Daisy had never been particularly easy. >> I wouldn't think it would be based off
00:45:55
of this information. >> Jack and Helen had both been born during the Great Depression. And like so many
00:46:01
other families at the time, they struggled financially. Short time after Helen was born in 1923, Daisy's marriage
00:46:07
ended in divorce and her husband Tom Gallagher left completely >> abandoned. Piece of [ __ ]
00:46:13
>> Her second marriage to William Graham followed soon after her divorce and in January 1932, she gave birth to her son
00:46:20
Jack. Unfortunately, the older Graham died from pneumonia a few months after Jack's birth, leaving them destitute.
00:46:29
Despite the depression, Daisy managed to find work with the local phone company.
00:46:33
while her mother stayed home to care for Helen and Jack. But when her mother died
00:46:37
in 1938, Daisy found herself again back to being destitute. Without any child care options and already living on a
00:46:44
meager salary, she enrolled her teenage daughter at St. Schol uh Scholasticas, I
00:46:50
believe it's called, which was a Benedicting Prep School located a short distance away. Six-year-old Jack, on the
00:46:57
other hand, was placed in the Clayton College of Denver, also known as the Denver School for Boys, an orphanage
00:47:03
established two decades earlier. >> Oh, [ __ ] In 1941, Daisy married a third time, this time to Earl King, who was a
00:47:12
wealthy rancher living in uh Topus a few miles outside Denver. Daisy's marriage to King dramatically improved the
00:47:19
financial stability of the family. But despite all of this, she chose not to retrieve her son from the Clayton
00:47:25
school. Instead, she and Earl essentially lived as well as a wealthy childless couple until Earl's death in
00:47:32
October 1954. >> The [ __ ] >> And at that time, she inherited her husband's entire estate valued at
00:47:38
$150,000, which today is about $1.75 million. >> [ __ ] According to Helen, Daisy was the
00:47:45
kind of person who could never be happy, even when things were going well. >> Even with that much money, girl. Yeah.
00:47:50
Obviously, money doesn't bite happiness, but damn, >> she's just a miserable person.
00:47:54
>> Yeah. >> She had struggled with depression and anxiety for most of her life. She was
00:47:58
controlling. She experienced mood swings regularly. At one point, she had even unfortunately attempted to uh end her
00:48:04
life by overdosing on pills, but was discovered by a relative and received medical treatment and saved.
00:48:10
>> That's sad. Uh Jack kind really had the same kind of things to say about, you
00:48:15
know, about their mother, adding that she wasn't a warm or motherly person. In fact, Jack told them she wasn't a person
00:48:22
you could call mom. She wanted you to call her by her Christian name. >> The [ __ ]
00:48:26
>> You couldn't put your arms around her. You couldn't show affection like that to
00:48:30
her. >> Oh, that's really awful. An [ __ ] >> That's so sad. And based on their interviews with family and friends,
00:48:36
agents put together a profile of Daisy where she was described as quote very generous in providing toys and money for
00:48:43
her children but spent very little time with them. >> Yeah. >> She appeared to have been
00:48:46
quick-tempered, somewhat doineering, and not affectionate as a mother. >> Not affectionate as a mother. Yeah. She
00:48:52
placed one of her children in an orphanage and then didn't get him when she got the resources
00:48:56
>> and never got him back. >> Yeah. Like what the [ __ ] >> They just lived as a wealthy, childless
00:49:00
couple even though she was a mother. >> And she just went and got him back at some point. And it was like, "Oh, hey,
00:49:03
how's the orphanage?" Like the [ __ ] >> By the time Daisy re-entered Jack's life
00:49:08
in 1954, >> he was 22 years old. >> Oh, so he grew up in the orphanage. She never went back.
00:49:14
>> Never got him back. She reentered. He was 22 years old, was married to a woman named Gloria, and they had an
00:49:21
11-month-old son named Allan, and they were expecting another child in a few months.
00:49:26
>> That's awful. >> Yeah, >> that's gross [ __ ] behavior. Now, his Jack's little family was happy together, but
00:49:35
they he was struggling to provide for them because it was a tough time. >> Yeah.
00:49:39
>> Knowing this, Daisy offered to buy Jack's family a house in Denver, provided they renovate the home to
00:49:45
include a basement apartment for her to live in. >> No thanks. >> She suggested that by taking the house,
00:49:50
Jack wouldn't have to worry about money and could reenroll in courses at the University of Denver.
00:49:54
>> Then she's going to go ahead and hold that over your head, honey. Jack reluctantly agreed to Daisy's
00:49:59
proposition because, you know, he's trying to provide for his got two kids. >> And in December 1954, they all moved
00:50:06
into this house in Denver. Just a few months later, after Gloria had given birth to their daughter Suzanne, Daisy
00:50:12
approached her son with a second proposal she believed would help support them. She was willing to use a portion
00:50:17
of her inheritance from Earl to invest in roadside in a roadside drive-in diner if Jack was willing to manage the
00:50:25
restaurant. It's a cool idea. Although neither of them had any experience in running or owning a restaurant. Yeah. He
00:50:31
agreed. And a month later, Daisy had invested $42,000 and opened the crown a drive-in.
00:50:37
>> They restaurants are known to be money pits. >> Oh, yeah. I'm sure it's one of the
00:50:41
hardest things you can do. >> I think it very much is. >> Yeah. So, from the time the restaurant
00:50:45
opened in May 1955 until her death in November, Jack and Daisy spent nearly every day together.
00:50:52
>> Wow. In fact, it was Jack who drove his mother to the airport the day of the bombing.
00:50:57
>> And she just had a bomb in her luggage and he had no idea. >> Yeah. And they had had they asked
00:51:02
whether he'd helped Daisy pack her luggage. Jack insisted his mother was a little quirky and she refused to allow
00:51:09
anyone else to pack her bags for her. >> Yeah. >> Though he >> I love that that was considered quirky
00:51:13
back then. >> I'm like, I don't need somebody to pack my bag. >> Though he did recall that her bag seemed
00:51:18
a little heavy when he carried it to the car. >> Mhm. Um, which Daisy claimed was
00:51:22
probably because of the ammunition she had packed in her luggage because she intended on hunting caribou with her
00:51:28
daughter in Alaska. >> Can you pack ammunition in your [ __ ] luggage? >> I guess so. Back then,
00:51:34
>> is that was that allowed? >> I guess they when they arrived at Stapleton, Daisy asked Jack to get three
00:51:40
life insurance policies for her from the kiosk. One for Helen, one for Jack, and
00:51:45
the third for her sister. Each for the minimum coverage, which late agents later confirmed with the insurance
00:51:50
company. >> Damn, she only did the minimum coverage knowing what she was going to go do on
00:51:53
that plane. >> Based on what they'd learned from Helen and Jack, investigators were beginning
00:51:57
to put together a theory about Daisy and a possible explanation for the bombing.
00:52:02
They knew she had a history of mental health issues and had even attempted suicide before. and they knew she had
00:52:08
recently reappeared in her children's lives, bringing gifts of money and property that not only could be an
00:52:14
attempt to make up for her past with them, but also secure their future. >> So, yeah, set them up.
00:52:20
>> I think she was trying to uh I don't want to say make amends, but like she was trying to
00:52:25
>> It does kind of >> make it a little better what she had done before she >> did what she was going to do.
00:52:31
>> Yeah. Given all of that, it was starting to seem possible that Daisy could have
00:52:35
used the flight as an opportunity to end her life and in doing so further provide
00:52:41
for her family financially. >> But why are you taking >> You took 40 other >> 43 other people
00:52:49
>> who had no intent who were going to see their families, >> right? >> In a lot of cases. That's
00:52:57
>> But if that were the case again, and it's exactly what you just stated, why would she choose the absolute lowest
00:53:03
amount of coverage? >> Yeah, that's And was it realistic to assume that essentially like what she
00:53:10
was described in as by by everybody else, a former housewife in her early 50s, would she really know how to make a
00:53:17
bomb effective enough to destroy an airplane? Cuz like >> that's what I've been doing.
00:53:21
>> Where did the bomb come from? Like >> Yeah, >> we can talk about motive all day, but
00:53:25
like where the [ __ ] did she get a bomb? >> She's just tinkering in the basement.
00:53:29
>> Yeah. >> So around the time agents were interviewing Helen and Jack, FBI agents
00:53:34
in the Denver office received a call from Bishop Richard Hansen from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
00:53:40
Saints in Denver. >> The Mormons are back out of that call must have been like, "What's up now?"
00:53:45
Now, according to Bishop Hansen, one of his parishioners thought he might have some information relevant to the bombing
00:53:51
case, but he wasn't sure whether he should take it to the authorities. >> Always, you should always take
00:53:56
information about the bombing case to the authorities. >> So, Hansen actually helped coordinate a
00:54:01
meeting a few days later where agents sat down to interview his parishioner, Lou Msurvy.
00:54:07
In mid 1955, Msurvy was working as a potato chip salesman in Denver whose route included the Crown A Drive-In,
00:54:15
which is restaurant. >> According to Msurvy, Daisy King was quote a fine person, but her son Jack
00:54:22
was quote a little odd. Msurvy told the agents a few months earlier in September, there was a gas explosion at
00:54:28
the Crown A that caused considerable damage to the restaurant. And although he couldn't be certain, he was fairly
00:54:34
sure Jack Graham had caused the explosion in order to collect on the insurance. Hello. Miss Servy had no way
00:54:41
of knowing it, but this wasn't the first time agents had heard the story of the explosion at the at the restaurant. Just
00:54:47
one day before that, Richard Connley, a former co-orker of Jack's from the General Adjustment Bureau, an agency, an
00:54:54
insurance agency where Jack worked as an office assistant assistant at one point.
00:54:58
He had contacted FBI agents in Denver to let them know of the explosion at the restaurant.
00:55:04
>> Connley had been assigned to assigned to the case when it came in that September,
00:55:08
and he strongly suspected Jack was responsible for the gas explosion at the restaurant. But without any proof, he
00:55:14
had no choice but to pay out the $1,200 claim. >> Okay. >> One day after they interviewed Lou
00:55:20
Msurvy, they received another call about Jack Graham. This time from Charles Mcer, a director of United Airlines
00:55:28
legal department. According to Mcerene, Samuel Morris, a United Airlines Flight Kitchen employee who also owned a diner
00:55:36
in downtown Denver, had conveyed his suspicions about Jack Graham to the legal department, but didn't want to
00:55:42
speak directly with the FBI. Morris had sold some pieces of kitchen equipment to
00:55:47
Graham just before the diner opened, and when he heard about the explosion at the
00:55:51
restaurant, he immediately thought it was an insurance fraud thing perpetrated by Graham.
00:55:55
>> Yeah. The statements about Jack's possible involvement in insurance fraud were very circumstantial, but Asians
00:56:03
decided to speak with local officials to determine what exactly happened at the Crown A diner in September. So,
00:56:09
according to assistant fire chief, by the time firefighters got to the restaurant, the fire suppression system
00:56:15
had extinguished the flames and they could clearly see that quote, "Someone had forced open the back door of the
00:56:21
restaurant and disconnected a popper a copper gas line near the chicken roaster."
00:56:27
Uh, I would go ahead and say that was intentional. So, when the gas leak reached the pilot light on the hot water
00:56:32
heater, it ignited and set fire to a portion of the kitchen. That's pretty simple. The arson investigator concluded
00:56:37
the gas line couldn't have been disconnected without a wrench, meaning it was intentional, but he was unable to
00:56:43
determine whether it was done with malice or fraud in mind. When he was interviewed about the uh restaurant by
00:56:50
local authorities, Jack claimed he had no idea who could have done such a thing, but many of his former employees
00:56:56
had been given keys, so it could have been any of them. Mhm. >> In the end, fire investigators and the
00:57:02
insurance company really couldn't do anything but label the explosion an accident, and nearly everyone suspected
00:57:10
Jack was behind it, though. >> That's rough. >> With all they had learned about Jack
00:57:14
Graham in the days following their interview with Helen and Jack, agents were beginning to uh reconsider their
00:57:19
theory about Daisy and instead shifted their focus to Jack. On a hunch, FBI lead investigator Roy Moore sent several
00:57:28
agents to Stapleton airfield where the crash scene had been reconstructed and asked them to go through whatever
00:57:34
belongings of Daisy's had been recovered from the uh crash. Among the things found near Daisy's body in the field was
00:57:41
her purse. It contained several personal items and an old tattered newspaper article from 1951 that identified Jack
00:57:49
Gilbert Graham as one of Denver's most wanted fugitives. You buried the lead. What? According to the article, Jack had
00:58:00
been working for a car company in Denver in 1951. When he did was discovered to have
00:58:06
forged nearly $5,000 in company checks. He used the money to finance a road trip
00:58:12
that took him all over the Midwest until he was caught in Lach, Texas after refusing to pull over, crashing through
00:58:19
a police roadblock. What the [ __ ] You made me feel bad for this boy. >> I know when they say and again feel bad
00:58:27
for the kid. I feel bad for the adult. >> I felt bad for him. I was like, "Damn,
00:58:30
his mom moves in, >> you know, not not having a great time together." >> Exactly.
00:58:36
>> Damn. >> And that's the thing when they were going through this, they initially they
00:58:40
thought, "Holy [ __ ] Dais this 50-year-old Daisy >> Yeah. did this all." >> I did. As soon as you said Daisy, I was
00:58:46
like, "What?" >> I said, "What?" Well, after he crashed through the police roadblock, they
00:58:51
searched the car and police discovered that Jack had been transporting bootleg whiskey in his trunk. So, he's just like
00:58:57
he's got so many things going on. >> He served 60 days for evading police in Texas and was extradited back to Denver
00:59:04
where he was tried and convicted for the check forgery. >> In his pre-sentencing report, the
00:59:09
probation officer wrote that Jack quote shows very little concern over his present the present offense. For the
00:59:15
last couple of days, he led a wild life, spending most of his money on drinking parties and women. What the [ __ ] At his
00:59:23
sentencing, Daisy pleaded with the judge on behalf of her son. >> Oh. Uh, begging for leniency and
00:59:29
claiming he had learned an important lesson from the entire situation. Never uh smuggle whiskey across state lines.
00:59:35
Don't don't crash into police brigades and don't steal money from your job. >> Yeah. She also valuable lessons.
00:59:42
>> Yeah. Valuable lessons. She also offered to pay the restitution on Jack's behalf.
00:59:46
>> Oh wow. >> Moved by Daisy's intervention, the judge sentenced Jack to 5 years probation and
00:59:51
ordered him to pay the full restitution. >> That's crazy. >> So he managed to avoid jail time. The
00:59:57
more investigators got into Jack Graham's past, the more they were like, >> "Huh, I think we might have been looking
01:00:02
in the wrong direction." >> Yeah. They had assumed that the small insurance payout couldn't possibly have
01:00:08
been enough to motivate someone to kill 44 people. But the more they learned about Jack, the more they started to
01:00:13
wonder whether that could have been true, just on a different on the different side. In the course of their
01:00:19
investigation, agents learned that Jack and Daisy had always had a difficult relationship, obviously. Yeah. Which had
01:00:25
become more so in the months leading up to the death. >> Right. Beginning in the late summer, the Crown
01:00:30
A was having serious financial difficulties, obviously, which Daisy blamed on her son's bad management, and
01:00:36
she was considering closing the restaurant. If that happened, Jack would have lost his job, and all the money
01:00:42
would have gone to Daisy. But if Daisy were dead and the restaurant were sold, the money would go to Jack. Oh. Agents
01:00:50
went back to Jack's house to ask some more questions about the day he drove his mother to the airport. And he told
01:00:56
the same story he had already told. Daisy had packed her own luggage, had been in a rush to get to the airport.
01:01:01
She asked him to purchase the three life insurance policies totaling $12,000. Then she checked the baggage and went to
01:01:09
her gate. After Daisy boarded the plane, Jack and his son Allan watched the plane
01:01:13
depart and stayed on the second floor observation deck until the plane had vanished from their sight and they
01:01:18
returned home. I'm stuck on the part where he took his son to go [ __ ] watch the plane take off. That's
01:01:24
diabolical. >> Yeah. >> Bye, Nana. What the [ __ ] >> Bye, Nana. Yeah, >> like that's so [ __ ] up.
01:01:31
>> That is [ __ ] up. Yeah. >> Holy [ __ ] dude. This story is wild. >> Yeah. I did not think I didn't know what
01:01:39
happened at all, but I didn't think it was this. Holy balls. >> So, while FBI agent Roy Mishki to spoke
01:01:45
with Jack outside and his partner went inside and spoke to Gloria Graham, his wife, under the guise of needing a drink
01:01:52
of water. >> Um, they casually chatted and Gloria corroborated Jack's story, including the
01:01:58
part about Daisy's quirky packing habits. Uh, but there was one thing she remembered that she'd forgotten to tell
01:02:03
them a few days earlier. According to Gloria, just before they were planning to leave for the airport, she'd seen
01:02:09
Jack carrying a box about 18 in in length, which had been wrapped in Christmas paper.
01:02:17
>> Huh. A few weeks earlier, >> it's November. It's barely November. >> Yeah. >> A few weeks earlier, um Jack had talked
01:02:24
about getting his mother a set of Xacto knives she could use to carve jewelry. So Gloria assumed Jack had bought those.
01:02:32
Although she couldn't confirm whether Jack had actually given the box to Daisy. Gloria assumed he had put them in
01:02:37
her luggage so she would discover them once she got to Alaska. She said, "My husband's just a sweetie pie."
01:02:43
>> Yeah, this is a nice gift. At that time, there were only two shops in Denver that
01:02:47
sold Xacto knives, and neither had a record of selling one in the previous month.
01:02:53
Earlier in their investigation, FBI agents learned that the bag was significantly over the weight limit for
01:02:58
checked baggage and she was required to pay the $27 fee. >> I've been there, girl.
01:03:02
>> Uh or remove some of the items. I That happens to me every time I go to the airport.
01:03:07
>> Yeah. The baggage clerk remembered their interaction with Daisy and she recalled
01:03:12
Jack insisting that they just pay the additional baggage fee rather than unpack everything in the airport.
01:03:18
>> Oh [ __ ] If their evolving theory was right that Jack was responsible for this, his having put the box in her
01:03:25
luggage would have accounted for the additional weight. >> Also, their theory would have accounted
01:03:29
for his insistence of just paying for the fee rather than taking out the stuff and having Daisy discover the box that
01:03:36
they believed contained the dynamite. >> Wow. >> Um, yeah. Andrew Field said, "If Daisy
01:03:41
had been a little cheaper or a little more inquisitive, this never would have happened because they came very close to
01:03:46
opening the suitcase." Oh, that's awful. Based on the evidence and everything they'd learned, investigators obtained a
01:03:52
warrant to search Jack and Gloria's home, where they discovered, among other things, copper wire very similar to that
01:03:58
which they found in the wreckage and believed to have been part of the explosive device. Also found in their
01:04:04
home, taped against the back of a heavy bureau that was flushed with the wall, was an additional insurance policy taken
01:04:11
out the day of the flight with a payout of $37,000, which today would be $434,000.
01:04:18
>> Wow. >> And Jack was listed as as the beneficiary. >> Dang. >> Taped it behind a bureau.
01:04:25
>> He's like a criminal mastermind. The agents traced the copper wire back to the store it was sold in in Denver where
01:04:31
the owner identified Jack Graham as the purchase the customer who purchased it a
01:04:35
few weeks earlier. >> The way you set this up, I really didn't think that's where we were going.
01:04:41
>> Until that point in the investigation, the FBI had little more than circumstantial evidence and hearsay
01:04:46
connecting Jack Raming. Well, the discovery of the additional insurance policy and the copper wire
01:04:52
were not, you know, they they weren't the smoking gun, but they weren't like in, you know, it was pretty good.
01:04:58
>> Yeah, that's good evidence. >> It was definitely enough to convince the district attorney to issue a warrant.
01:05:03
>> Yeah. >> And on November 14th, 2 weeks after the bombing, Jack Graham was arrested on
01:05:07
suspicion of mass murder. >> It's also crazy that crazy that it only took them two weeks to get this all
01:05:13
together. >> Yeah. They went they went hard. >> And just to think that they went out
01:05:18
there initially to talk to him and they're really following this lead of Daisy and then you look back and you
01:05:23
think they were sitting on that house and the copper wire was sitting somewhere was taped to the back of the dresser.
01:05:30
>> Yes. >> And he knew full well >> but was sending them down the >> completely different path. Like that
01:05:37
must have as an investigator and it probably happens so often just the amount of times you once a case is
01:05:43
solved sit there and think and I was sitting in that house and that thing was right over there
01:05:46
>> and he was right there like that's and I yeah sitting down looking at the guy who
01:05:51
did it. >> It's very only going to find out like a week or two later. >> It's very much like the Clary Starling
01:05:56
Buffalo Bill moment of like you're just sitting there talking to him in the house and then you see the the moth land
01:06:01
on the thing. >> It's like what the [ __ ] I'm just standing here with this person. Yeah.
01:06:07
Now, at first, Jack stuck to his story. Just as Gloria had said, he had bought the X-Acto knives for his mother, and
01:06:14
that's what his wife saw him carrying. He said, "Yeah, there's no [ __ ] record of that, my guy."
01:06:17
>> And the copper wire they'd found in his shirt pocket at the house, that was something they commonly used at the
01:06:22
restaurant. And the insurance policy, he didn't remember getting that one for a higher amount of coverage, but things
01:06:28
were chaotic. >> And he also didn't remember taping it to the back of his [ __ ] dresser. Are you
01:06:32
kidding me? He literally said, "Things were pretty chaotic as I was trying to get Daisy on the plane, so maybe I made
01:06:36
a mistake." >> And taped this document to the back of my [ __ ] dresser. >> He had a dumbass answer for every
01:06:42
question until one of the agents left the room and returned with several boxes of ammunition Daisy had supposedly
01:06:48
packed for her trip. >> In response, Jack told them he must have been mistaken about how much ammunition
01:06:53
his mother had packed for the trip, and she'd left some behind. >> So, he just had an answer,
01:06:58
>> dumb ass answer after dumbass answer. The interrogation went back and forth this forth this way for hours until
01:07:04
finally just before midnight lead investigator Roy Moore flat out accused him of lying at which point he just gave
01:07:13
it up. That's always so interesting to me too. >> That's the thing exactly what it takes
01:07:19
and how long are you willing to go for before you just >> give it all up. What's the moment that
01:07:24
like he literally is just like, "You're a [ __ ] liar." And Jack literally said,
01:07:29
>> "Okay." >> And then he took a sip of water and said, "Where do you want me to start?"
01:07:35
>> It's always that. It's always that. >> Where do you want me to start? At the beginning, maybe. That would be great.
01:07:40
At >> the point you decided to commit a [ __ ] mass murder, you piece of [ __ ] >> You killed 44 people, including your own
01:07:46
mother. Not only that, like that very much that >> you watched that plane take off with
01:07:52
your child. That is >> disturbed on a whole different level. >> You made your son complicit for this
01:08:00
whole thing. >> Like now, according to Graham, it had all started about 6 months earlier when
01:08:07
his mother had pinned the blame for the failing restaurant on his poor management, but it actually stemmed from
01:08:12
something much older than their business affairs. Jack admitted he hated Daisy for sending him to an orphanage,
01:08:19
>> which is fair. >> That that part that hatred is fair. >> And he said, and this part you think of
01:08:25
the child and you say, "Wow, that's sad." Because he said when she got married to Earl King, he naturally
01:08:31
assumed she would come and get him. >> That's heartbreaking. >> And her decision to leave her son in the
01:08:35
orphanage for what he considered to be selfish reasons was just something he could never forgive her for.
01:08:40
>> And here's the thing, don't you don't ever have to forgive. >> No. There's plenty of people though that
01:08:45
get abandoned and don't reconnect and send their mom on a plane with a [ __ ] bomb committing a mascot
01:08:51
>> to not only kill her but kill innocent people. Exactly. And also like was your
01:08:55
mom a good mom? No. >> Was she like was she super shitty for your whole life? Absolutely. Did she
01:09:01
deserve to die? >> No. >> No. That's not the answer, man. >> And it's not for you to decide. That's
01:09:06
not >> And it's not for you to decide that those other people have to die, too. Like what the [ __ ]
01:09:11
>> You move on with your life, dude. Like you can you can compartmentalize the fact that you can say, "Yeah, that's
01:09:17
[ __ ] up." That you were put in an orphanage and then when she got financially stable, she just [ __ ]
01:09:22
left you there. >> Yeah, she's a piece of [ __ ] >> [ __ ] up. And yeah, I agree with you.
01:09:26
You never should have forgiven her for it if you didn't feel the need to. >> But also, so you go your separate ways.
01:09:31
>> You're a grown man, you're married, and you have two children. So why would you
01:09:34
not do better for them? >> Exactly. Now their dad's a murderer, a mass murderer.
01:09:39
>> And you made that choice. >> Exactly. Like that's the thing. So, but still he said he moved on with his life.
01:09:45
He left his mother in the past. He got married. He had children and was doing his best to be a decent father. And then
01:09:51
Daisy came back in his life. >> But okay, then you let her leave her, which again, I know this is a
01:09:58
complicated situation on like a familial level. >> It is, but >> but then you take it to the level it got
01:10:04
taken to and you say nothing leads to that. I can understand it being chaotic and feeling like your life is a little
01:10:11
in turmoil when she comes back, but you deal with that and you figure it out. You either cut her out or you learn to
01:10:17
you figure out a way to deal with the present here. >> Exactly. >> But you do not take it to this level.
01:10:23
There's no validation for taking it to no justification for doing what you did. >> There's just not.
01:10:29
>> Your story is sad that does not lead to this. >> So many people have sad stories. I have
01:10:35
personal experience being abandoned by multiple people who were supposed to take care of me. Never have I ever
01:10:39
thought of sending them on a plane with a bomb to kill other people. >> You can say that his life story sad
01:10:46
>> sad as [ __ ] >> No justification for this whatsoever. >> And if anything, >> do better.
01:10:52
>> Do better. >> Do better. All I want in my life is to do better and prove to everybody that
01:10:58
ever like [ __ ] me over that I'm better than them. >> Yeah. >> Do that. Because see, as far as Jack
01:11:04
could was concerned, his mother's return and then her generous offer to buy the house, invest in a business with him,
01:11:10
all that was just another selfish act, a seemingly benevolent gift that was really just an attempt to basically
01:11:18
soothe her own guilt for being a bad parent, >> which I can understand, >> which I get why he thought that.
01:11:23
>> And maybe that was it. And maybe it wasn't. >> No, you don't know. >> Maybe Daisy went into this. I'm just
01:11:28
saying like maybe people evolve. I'm not saying you have to forgive people even when they do evolve.
01:11:33
>> Well, and especially the older people get and the closer they get to the >> maybe she started thinking about her
01:11:38
life and she said and maybe it wasn't for purely selfish reasons. Maybe she just said I just want to do better.
01:11:44
>> And it could be both. >> And again, I'm not saying that you have to accept that. No.
01:11:48
>> And that you have to be forgiving and that you have to allow that person back
01:11:53
in your life. But if that's the case, if you don't feel you can do that one, you're perfectly oh, you can do that. If
01:12:00
somebody's hurt you to that extent, just because they have become a better person
01:12:04
doesn't mean you have to accept that. I've gotten for a long, long time. You know what that's called?
01:12:08
>> Protecting your peace. >> See, and that's okay. >> Protect your peace. >> But you let that person go.
01:12:13
>> Yep. >> Or you choose to work forward with them. Those are your two choices. You can't
01:12:19
cause mass [ __ ] tragedy and take other people from people they love because you are upset
01:12:26
>> here. This is clearly not a well man. >> No, this is beyond. So he figured this
01:12:33
was just trying to soothe her own guilt. In fact, it quickly occurred to Jack that the gifts his mother offered
01:12:39
weren't the nice, generous acts, but just another way of just controlling him. That's how he felt. Jack and his
01:12:45
family may have occupied the majority of the house, but it was still Daisy who owned it. And he may have managed the
01:12:51
Crown A diner or drive-in, but it was Daisy who owned the business and she could do with it as she pleased. So, he
01:12:57
felt controlled. >> Mhm. >> When they started having financial troubles at the restaurant, Daisy
01:13:01
announced to Jack that she was planning on selling it, and he started to panic. >> If he sold the business, she would
01:13:07
recoup the investment and maybe even make a profit. But all Jack would end up with was unemployment and an uncertain
01:13:13
future for his family. So, it's exactly what the investigators thought. >> Yeah.
01:13:17
>> But if he got rid of Daisy and made it look like an accident, Jack would end up
01:13:21
with a significant portion of Daisy's estate and the life insurance payout >> and the rest of it.
01:13:26
>> So, he started coming up with a plan to kill Daisy and make it look like an accident, which is so [ __ ] scary.
01:13:34
>> It is. He explained that he constructed the bomb from several sticks of dynamite. a sixvolt battery and electric
01:13:41
caps. Just before they left the airport, he affixed a simple 90minute kitchen timer
01:13:47
to the explosives and wrapped it in the box Gloria saw him carrying, which he packed into his mother's luggage after
01:13:53
removing the ammunition that she had packed. >> Wow. He wrapped it in [ __ ] Christmas
01:14:00
paper. >> We've covered a case like that before. something that happened on a subway
01:14:05
>> and the remember it was the camera that was an explosive and it was also wrapped
01:14:09
in >> wrapped in Christmas paper. >> Mhm. >> It's so chilling. >> That adds a whole different layer.
01:14:14
>> It really does >> mentally. I mean now although he had made it seem like poor time management
01:14:19
in the moment, it was because of the 1hour timer that they left for the airport at the last minute. He wanted to
01:14:25
make sure the device didn't detonate until act after the plane had taken off. The plan was almost completely undone at
01:14:32
the baggage counter when his mother was like, "I don't really want to pay this overweight baggage fee." But Jack was
01:14:38
able to convince her to pay the $27 and got around the plane. >> Damn. When the investigation uh started
01:14:45
weeks earlier, it seemed completely unthinkable that the explosion of flight 629 had been anything other than an
01:14:52
accident. But now, Jack's confession proved that very thing that no one really wanted to believe. He had killed
01:14:58
44 innocent strangers to benefit from the death of his mother, Daisy King. >> That's unable.
01:15:07
>> That is an unthinkable thing to wrap your [ __ ] brain around. >> Yeah. No, it is. I don't want to wrap my
01:15:12
brain around that. >> Jack's confession to the murder of the 44 passengers on a board flight 629
01:15:18
seemed to bring the case to a simple and very sad close. The problem according to
01:15:25
the US attorney Donald Kelly was that quote at the moment it doesn't look like the federal penalty is sufficient to
01:15:31
justify prosecution. What >> in simple terms at the time there was no law specifically prohibiting the bombing
01:15:38
of an airliner. >> We got to make one real quick. >> So any attempt to find Graham
01:15:44
responsible for all 44 deaths would have fallen well short of the actual crime he'd committed.
01:15:50
>> Right. which is mind-boggling. At best, the FBI could charge him with peaceime sabotage. What
01:15:59
>> a somewhat dated charge that carried a maximum of 10 years in prison for killing 40
01:16:04
>> and a fine of $10,000. Hardly an appropriate punishment. So, what did they do?
01:16:11
So, in light of the federal statutes, the Denver District Attorney's office worked fast and the day after Graham
01:16:17
confessed the DA's office filed a charge of murder against Jack for the death of
01:16:22
his mother. They were like, "We can at least do this." >> Yeah. >> In a statement to the press, Denver
01:16:26
District Attorney Bert Keading told reporters, "This does not mean that the government will drop its charges, but
01:16:32
merely defer to the more serious charges in state court." >> Yeah. Also, if convicted on the murder
01:16:37
charge, Graham faced a potential death sentence, which the prosecutor intended to pursue.
01:16:43
>> Jack Graham waved his right to a hearing on the peaceime sabotage charge and was
01:16:47
placed in jail on $100,000 bond while waiting to be arraigned on the murder charge, which had been scheduled for
01:16:53
November 17th. But when he was brought before the judge on the 17th, he asked for a 30-day continuence in order to
01:17:00
quote obtain adequate counsel. >> Okay. Uh, in response, the judge granted Graham a week to find counsel and
01:17:08
suggested Jack use his time in jail to quote, "obtain services of attorneys and be prepared to enter a plea in this
01:17:14
case." >> Yeah. >> Instead of using his time to find an appropriate lawyer, he immediately
01:17:19
started strategizing for his defense. In a jail house interview on the 18th, Jack
01:17:24
denied planting the bomb on the plane and claimed that while he had signed the confession, he had only done so under
01:17:29
duress. He said, "Yes, I signed the statement, but it's not true. They told me they were going to put my wife in
01:17:35
jail, and I'd better get it straightened out myself." Then, somewhat suspiciously, he pivoted mid-statement
01:17:42
to claim that he actually had no money memory of signing the confession at all. >> Come on.
01:17:47
>> He said, "If I did, they had something they had something Gloria signed, but declined to elaborate on what that could
01:17:54
mean." >> I love that now he's blaming his wife. Yeah. He's like, "Actually, Gloria,
01:17:57
>> maybe she did it." when he as when he was asked about what if any tactics the
01:18:01
FBI agents had used to cause his duress. Jack said, "Well, they started about noon that Sunday and didn't stop until I
01:18:07
signed a confession about 4:00 a.m. the next morning." Though, he was quick to add that the agents had taken several
01:18:13
breaks, including one which they quote, "took me out for dinner and gave me drinks of water and such."
01:18:19
What? While he talked endlessly about the with the press about his innocence, the DA's office worked to build their
01:18:26
case against him. now anticipating a plea of not guilty. >> A few days after his interview with the
01:18:31
press, Keading's office brought Lyman Brown, owner of Brown Brothers Supermarket, in to make a formal
01:18:37
statement. FBI agents had traced the dynamite used to the bombing back to Brown Brother Supermarket and had hoped
01:18:43
Brown could make a positive ID on the man who'd purchased it several days earlier. The fact that you could buy
01:18:51
dynamite at the [ __ ] supermarket is is quite a concept. >> It's so 1955, you know.
01:18:59
>> I'm just going to go pick up the milk, the eggs, and the dynamite. >> Dynamite. Anything else you need, huh?
01:19:03
>> Yeah. >> The [ __ ] >> So, apparently Brown was shown a lineup of seven men, and he immediately picked
01:19:09
Gran out. Graham out of the group as the man who'd purchased the dynamite. >> You You're going to remember the guy
01:19:13
that purchases the dynamite at the super record. I can't imagine they sold a [ __ ]
01:19:17
ton of it. >> He knows. He knows every person who walked in and sold dynamite and bought
01:19:20
dynamite. >> You got a list. >> He looked right at the DA and said, "That's him." All right. It turned out
01:19:25
that Brown had actually known Jack Graham years earlier when they both lived in Kreming, a town just outside of
01:19:31
Denver. Uh he told a reporter, "It never dawned on me that this was the man I sold the dynamite to. In fact, Brown
01:19:37
only remembered Graham's purchase because Jack had specifically requested electric caps, which he described as a
01:19:44
type that are discharged by a timer wired to batteries. >> The dynamite and blasting caps were
01:19:49
commonly used in the area by miners in construction crews needing to blow away their large sections of rock, so the
01:19:56
sale didn't seem strange at the time. >> That's so crazy. Now, the case against Jack got stronger when investigators
01:20:03
interviewed one of Graham's recent employers, Damon Ward. A little over a month before the bombing, Jack had taken
01:20:09
a job at Ward Electric Company, which only lasted six day um which lasted only six days before he quit. Uh Ward said,
01:20:16
"I thought it peculiar that Graham should want to work in the place." Uh since Jack owned a restaurant and was
01:20:22
already fully employed. So Ward pointed out that Jack claimed that electrical equipment in his restaurant occasionally
01:20:28
needed repairing, so he thought it would be good to learn about electrical work.
01:20:32
>> Or you could just hire an electrician. >> Yeah, exactly. That though did not explain why Graham had asked Ward many
01:20:38
questions about buying a timing device from him, though he ultimately purchased the timing device from Riyle Electrical
01:20:45
Supply in Denver. After more delays, Jack finally went before a judge for his arraignment on
01:20:52
December 9th. When asked for his plea, he said, "I am certainly not guilty and not guilty by reason of insanity before,
01:20:59
during, and after the alleged commission of the crime." >> Wait, what? >> The prosecutor, Burke Keading,
01:21:05
immediately objected to the plea, insisting it was improper, but the judge accepted Graham's plea and asked the
01:21:11
defense and prosecution for written motions as to whether the plea was proper. >> Okay. Also, the judge ordered that
01:21:17
Graham be committed to the Colorado Psychopathic Hospital, that's what it was called, for 30 days in order to be
01:21:23
evaluated and asked the two psychiatrists be assigned to the case. >> Okay. >> The prosecution objected to this,
01:21:29
saying, "Graham appears no different from any other person except to the wholesale slaughter he committed. The
01:21:35
case was continued until the end of the evaluation period on January 9th." Jesus. When he first was arrested, Jack
01:21:42
confessed to the bombing. Then when he was in front of reporters, he claimed he was innocent and his confession was
01:21:48
obtained under duress. Now facing a judge, he claimed he was insane at the time the crime was committed before,
01:21:54
during, and after. >> Yeah. It was beginning and coming increasingly clear that Jack was
01:21:58
tailoring his defense to counter whatever the prosecution learned about him. And it wasn't going well. In fact,
01:22:04
Jack's evaluation period lasted longer than anyone had expected and appeared to have taken a serious toll on him.
01:22:11
Really? >> On the evening of February 10th, guards found Jack unconscious in his cell, two
01:22:16
black socks tied around his neck in an attempt to end his own life. >> Oh, that's dark.
01:22:21
>> The guards began CPR and he was revived. But according to his lawyer, John Gibbons, the suicide attempt had forever
01:22:27
changed Jack. He said, "I asked him if he remembered trying to" and he said, "Trying to commit suicide. He just had a
01:22:34
blank look. He looked at me and said, "No, he didn't remember anything about it. He isn't the same person I knew last
01:22:39
week. The man is gone. >> Wow. >> In the days after that, Jack did everything he could to convince the
01:22:45
psychiatrist that he was indeed insane. But like many criminals who try to get that unwarranted insanity defense, and
01:22:52
most Americans at the time, for that matter, Jack didn't really know what the symptoms of a psychiatric or psychotic
01:22:58
disorder looked like. So, his performance of insanity, quote unquote, appeared to psychiatrists to be exactly
01:23:04
that, a performance. >> Yeah. They said uh he walked very slowly and stared straight ahead with a vanken
01:23:11
expression on his face. When he was asked questions, he would respond with bizarre and nonsensical answers, likely
01:23:17
under the erroneous belief that people experiencing psychosis were incapable of rational thought and lack the ability to
01:23:24
respond appropriately. Ultimately, the psychiatrist concluded that his quote patchy amnesia, intermittent
01:23:30
disorientation, and absurd as well as correct answers to arithmetic problems were indicative of what they termed
01:23:37
quote simulated insanity. >> Yeah. >> In simple terms, he was [ __ ] faking it. >> After a few days of performing insanity
01:23:44
for the evaluating psychiatrist, he dropped the act and returned to outright confessing.
01:23:50
>> Oh my god. On February 15th, he again confessed to planting the bomb on the plane after his attempts to stop his
01:23:56
mother from traveling to Alaska failed. He said, "I tried to tell her how I felt. She just wouldn't stay. She
01:24:03
wouldn't give me any reason at all. No reason why she didn't want to stay. I thought it was the last time she was
01:24:07
going to run off and leave me. I just wanted to do things with her, to sit down and talk to her, just like
01:24:12
everybody else's mother would do." >> That's sad. >> And it's like, but but really, like, are
01:24:18
you is that real? I don't think so. From the moment agents found evidence of an explosive device in the wreckage of
01:24:24
United Flight 629, everyone had assumed the motive for the sabotage was financial gain. And maybe at least in
01:24:30
part it was. But in his final confession to psychiatrist, Jack revealed an even deeper motive, one that maybe he didn't
01:24:38
even recognize in the moment. Daisy King, you know, you know, in the beginning, she had abandoned, avoided,
01:24:44
and manipulated her children at when they were children. But when she reappeared in her son's life a year
01:24:50
earlier, he thought, or at least hoped, this was finally his chance to have a real relationship with his mother,
01:24:56
>> when she threatened to sell the business, then made plans for the long trip to Alaska, he felt like she was
01:25:02
abandoning him again. >> Mhm. >> And for Jack, that trauma took over and he wasn't willing to endure it a second
01:25:10
time. So, he made sure she could never leave him again. And he made the ultimate awful, sadistic and evil choice
01:25:20
he could. >> Yeah. >> Which again is unjustified. >> Yeah. And in a way, you're killing her.
01:25:29
So she is leaving again. >> He's going to leave you for good now. >> Like that does I don't
01:25:33
>> Not only that, you've you have these abandonment issues, which 100% I understand that like he I get it. Like
01:25:41
he was justified in having abandonment issues. Absolutely. But now you're also taking people away from other people
01:25:48
>> like you're you're causing a whole host of other issues >> just selfish >> across the United You know what I mean
01:25:56
like it's like you just you're not even thinking of >> exactly >> of that >> he didn't think of anybody else but his
01:26:01
own which is >> interesting it's it's awful but it's also interesting when you think about it
01:26:08
because >> was that little kid and him making that decision and that's why it was like so
01:26:14
incredibly selfish. >> Yeah. You know, >> cuz it's a very selfish decision. >> No matter what, wrong, like immensely
01:26:21
[ __ ] up. But when you look at it a little different from a psychiatric point of view, purely psychiatric point
01:26:28
of view, >> I think at least partially the child in him was making that decision.
01:26:34
>> Yeah, it does feel that way because it's a very >> shortsighted forward decision as well.
01:26:41
>> Also, he was 22. Was it? I don't even think his brain was fully developed. >> Yeah. I don't even know. So, and that's
01:26:46
interesting because your whole frontal lobe isn't developed in that. >> He was a couple years older than that. I
01:26:51
>> Oh, was it He was 22 when they connected. >> He was 22 when they reconnected.
01:26:53
>> Gotcha. Gotcha. Any It's just It's interesting. It's a fascinating It's a fascinating mindset. The psychology of
01:27:00
it is fascinating to think about. Um because even if it's like even if he was making this plan to kill just his mother
01:27:07
for this, it's like >> you're not justified to do that. You can't take another person's life because
01:27:12
they hurt you. I understand >> the frustration. I I like I can't personally understand or appreciate to
01:27:21
the fullest extent >> those kind of abandoned issues. I just can't because I didn't
01:27:26
>> and that's the thing. So I'm I'm standing here from a point of view where I can't understand that deep kind of
01:27:31
trauma. Yeah. >> But I know that no matter what it is, you can't kill someone. We just can't
01:27:35
live in that kind of society where you are allowed to murder people for you for the trauma they cause you. You know what
01:27:43
I mean? >> It's like a weird form of like vigilante justice. >> Even though like in ways you sit there
01:27:48
and you say like yeah like I understand trauma can make you upset and make you feel certain things. But
01:27:54
>> the thing is >> especially a whole plane of people >> that's where >> innocent people.
01:27:58
>> That's where it's like you lose me completely. And even if he had just killed his mother he would have lost me
01:28:03
completely. >> Yeah. cuz you're we can't >> you could just can't kill people obviously but this is the thing he very
01:28:09
well absolutely had abandonment issues but there's got to be something else within him
01:28:16
>> for sure >> that was like capable to do this abandonment issues or not >> because some people can deal with them
01:28:22
>> or or grieve through them you know what I mean like not fully deal >> well honestly that is dealing with them
01:28:27
>> yeah grieving through them >> and it's like and they don't kill people >> and the thing Part of grieving through
01:28:34
them is recognizing that you were a child when those things happened and that like the child
01:28:39
>> part of you is still sad but you are an adult now and you have to make the choice and you have to make the steps to
01:28:46
move on from that in whatever way is right for you >> cuz the child didn't deserve
01:28:51
>> without killing anybody >> like the child doesn't did not deserve that. >> No. And that's probably part of healing
01:28:56
is realizing that your childhood self did not deserve that or >> it 100% >> do anything to warrant that
01:29:02
>> because abandonment issues make you think that something's wrong with you inherently. So yeah, absolutely that's
01:29:06
part of it. >> Of course that part of it is sad. >> Mhm. >> But this was never the answer.
01:29:11
>> No. >> Ever? No. >> In any lifetime was this the answer. >> It's so sad that therapy is just now
01:29:19
becoming a mainstream. >> Back then it was he wasn't getting help for that. No, it's wild. So, his Jack's
01:29:27
trial began April 16th, 1956, just months after the Colorado Supreme Court ruled that cameras could be allowed in
01:29:34
the courtroom to document the trial. >> Oh, wow. >> That meant that Jack Graham's case was
01:29:38
going to be the first time Americans outside of a courtroom would get to see the workings of the court during an
01:29:44
active criminal trial. >> Oh, wow. In his opening statement, Bert Keading explained to the jury that Jack
01:29:49
had quote coldly, carefully, and deliberately planned his quote diabolical scheme of destruction and
01:29:55
death. Which is true. >> Yeah. >> And as a result, Daisy King had fallen nearly 6,000 ft to her death.
01:30:01
>> And everybody else did, too. >> Yep. He had done this, Keading insisted, for financial gain, and because of the
01:30:07
lifetime of animosity he'd felt towards his mother. Also, Keading assured the jury the state would prove as much. And
01:30:13
when it came to sentencing, there was only one possible penalty and that is death.
01:30:18
>> Because remember this trial can only be for the murder of Daisy. >> Y >> uh in the days that followed a
01:30:24
prosecution u the prosecution called a long list of witnesses from airline technicians, specialists, psychiatrists,
01:30:32
accused, you know, accused family members, all of whom presented damning and compelling testimony to support the
01:30:40
prosecution's theory. The defense, on the other hand, appeared to be relying on theater in flatout denial of guilt.
01:30:48
>> That's never good. >> At one point, when Bert Keading brought it in a table full of airplane parts,
01:30:53
Jack's defense attorney, Charles Vigil, vehemently objected and began throwing the parts on the floor in a surprising
01:30:59
and very inappropriate outburst. >> Tantrum until he was loudly admonished by the judge and threatened with
01:31:05
contempt. Like, what are you doing? >> Yeah. Vigil began his defense several days later after the state rested what
01:31:11
was a very strong case. And for their part, the defense stuck to the previous statement that Graham was innocent and
01:31:17
played no part in the sabotage of flight 629. But little was said of his supposed
01:31:22
mental illness. This was likely due to the fact that Jack refused to testify on his own behalf and wouldn't allow his
01:31:28
lawyers to call his wife or any of the evaluating psychiatrists to testify. In fact, the defense called only eight
01:31:36
witnesses to the stand, none of whom provided evidence or statements that did anything to contradict the prosecution's
01:31:42
case. >> Yikes. >> So, if Charles Vigil presented a poor defense of his client at trial, it's
01:31:47
because Jack Graham gave him few other options as well. >> On May 3rd, the jury filled in filed
01:31:53
into the courtroom expecting to hear more testimony on behalf of the defense and were surprised when Vigil announced
01:31:58
that the defense had rested. They had nothing else to say. In fact, the defense wasn't just resting their case.
01:32:05
They also submitted motions demanding a ruling on the matter of his client's sanity and a motion for dismissal.
01:32:12
Given that six of the state's psychiatrists had already testified that Jack Graham did not meet the criteria
01:32:16
for insanity, the first motion was baboom denied pretty quick. >> Like what the hell?
01:32:21
>> The judge also denied the second motion as it wasn't supported by literally any
01:32:26
evidence or facts. Right. >> Instead, the case was sent to the jury for verdict.
01:32:30
>> It's about time. On May 5th, Deputy District Attorney Greg Mueller gave his closing statements in which he reminded
01:32:36
the jury, quote, "Under the laws of Colorado and the laws of God, there's a place where a person who has planned a
01:32:43
crime can turn back. It has a Latin name." Or the place of repentance. It was available to Graham. He could have
01:32:50
turned back at any point. The death he decreed for his mother when he sent her a loft to be hurdled out of the air and
01:32:56
have her body ripped open and driven into the ground is the same death his murderer deserves. And I said, "Whoa." I
01:33:04
said, "I don't know how you recreate that." The jurors were led out of the courtroom for deliberation at 9:49 p.m.
01:33:10
and they came back by 10:58 p.m. for a verdict. When asked to prevent present the verdict, the foreman rose from his
01:33:17
seat, handed the note over to Judge McDonald, and he read, "We, the jury, find the defendant, John Gilbert Graham,
01:33:23
guilty of murder in the first degree, and find he acted with premeditation and a specific intent to take life as
01:33:29
charged in the information herein and fix the penalty at death." >> Yeah. >> When the verdict was read, Jack showed
01:33:36
no emotion. The verdict was devastating to Gloria Graham. >> Yeah. Two children.
01:33:42
>> Yeah. and Jack's sister, Helen. >> Right. >> But everyone else in the courtroom
01:33:46
seemed pretty resigned to Graham's fate, if not pretty pleased with the outcome.
01:33:51
Later that afternoon, Charles Vigil insisted they would appeal it, citing at least 39 errors in the conduct of Judge
01:33:57
Joseph McDonald's, but even Graham was overheard telling his lawyer, "I don't want to appeal. I don't want a damned
01:34:03
thing." >> Oh, wow. I think he's just like a broken human. >> I think so, too. >> In all ways, can be broken. Like it's
01:34:11
[ __ ] up what he did, but this case is sad through and through. >> It's sad all the way to the end.
01:34:15
>> It's a tragedy and his life was a tragedy. >> Now whether he wanted it or not, an
01:34:20
appeal was filed on Graham's behalf, citing a number of errors, mostly related to the frequency where with
01:34:25
which the defense was overruled by the judge. In their summary statement, the Supreme Court wrote, "Although the
01:34:32
defendant, as indicated by the record, has stated that he desires to wave his appeal, if the Supreme Court of the Col
01:34:38
of Colorado feels that a defendant can wave such an appeal, then of course there is nothing further to argue since
01:34:44
the matter can be determined on that issue alone. But there are many points that could justify reversal uh in the
01:34:50
>> Oh, wow. >> the case. The justices may have believed in the strength of Jack's appeal in
01:34:55
theory, but in the end they upheld the lower court's ruling and sentence ordered the sentence of death to be
01:35:01
carried out during the week ending January 12th, 1957. >> And was it because he didn't want the
01:35:06
appeal? >> I think it was just they they looked into it and were like, "No." >> Okay.
01:35:10
>> They upheld it. So, it was on January 11th, 1957 that Jack Graham was sealed in the gas chamber at the Colorado State
01:35:17
Penitentiary at 7:57 p.m. And 10 minutes later, the prison physician and pronounced that John Gilbert Graham was
01:35:24
dead at the age of 24. >> That's chilling. The next day, he was cremated and his ashes were buried next
01:35:33
to his mother's in Denver's Fairmount Cemetery. >> Oh. In an interview many years later,
01:35:40
one of Graham's evaluating psychiatrists, Dr. James McDonald, said, "I've never seen anyone since who killed
01:35:46
so many people. It was an extremely unusual crime. He didn't give a damn, but that's because he was a psychopath.
01:35:52
He didn't care." >> Yeah, there was something absolutely off about him. Like absolutely mentally off
01:35:59
about him. Very scary. just the lack of compassion and the lack of empathy and >> and what that lawyer said, what the
01:36:06
prosecutor said, at any point he could have gone back. This was a days long, at least potentially weeksl long process of
01:36:14
him deciding this and following through with the plan >> and especially to kill that many innocent people
01:36:22
>> when you just hate one of them. >> Thought came into your mind, what the [ __ ] am I doing? Even as like obviously
01:36:28
you can't stop at them, but even when you watch that plane take off. >> Yeah. And it's like did you watch people
01:36:33
get on that plane? >> He had to. >> You watched all those people get on that you watched that baby get on that plane.
01:36:39
>> Oh. >> And then you think of all of the times he could have stopped it like I just
01:36:43
said, but that final moment where they were checking her baggage, >> that should have been your message from
01:36:50
the universe like turn back. >> Turn back. You don't need to do this. >> And he forged forward. And that's so sad
01:36:55
that it was that close to being the plan being completely >> foiled and those lives being saved.
01:37:02
>> It it kills me. >> And that's the bombing of United Airflight 629. >> What a tragic story through and through.
01:37:11
>> From beginning to end. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Truly. >> Wow. That's a that's a heavy one. And
01:37:16
>> I just really feel for all those people's families who like also really didn't ever get justice because
01:37:23
>> obviously like he he got the death penalty in the end, but he was never held responsible for doing what he did
01:37:29
to any of those people like those other passengers >> cuz they didn't even have a law on the
01:37:33
books. And it's like in that they all lost people because of one man's vendetta.
01:37:40
>> Yes. >> Against one person. >> Yeah. on that plane and their loved ones happened to get on the same plane as
01:37:46
Daisy. >> And then just the fact obviously they had a crazy relationship and a really
01:37:51
volatile relationship it sounds like. But the fact that he was okay and planning to let his mom take the wrap
01:37:58
for that. >> Yeah. >> What if he had never been discovered? He was just going to like his whole plan
01:38:02
had never been unfolded. he was just going to live the rest of his life with his mom having that turn.
01:38:06
>> He would have been happy because to him I think he was so deeply >> angry and he had such deepseated hate
01:38:14
and rage for her >> and such deep-seated issues from the abandonment and the treatment which was
01:38:20
not okay treatment in any way. Oh, >> by him like by her >> but that's not the outcome.
01:38:25
>> But I think he would have looked at that as he >> he won in the scenario which which
01:38:31
points to even more >> how evil some part of him was. >> Yeah. >> To do this to pull this off you have to
01:38:40
be to put that many people >> to kill that many innocent people because you are mad at one person you
01:38:47
have to be fully evil. >> Yeah. The way he went about this is just unbelievable to me.
01:38:53
>> There's a there's a level of >> something broken. >> There's a level of emotion.
01:38:57
>> Yeah. >> Em lack of emotion there that is just >> cuz then you just watched it. You
01:39:02
watched the people get announced in that press conference. You watched all the You probably saw pictures of them, you
01:39:07
know, in the paper. >> Yeah. And their family members were just going to go on >> knowing you did it.
01:39:13
>> I think the worst part of all, and I've said it a couple times, but the worst
01:39:16
part of all for me is the fact that he let his son Yeah. stand there next to him and watch that plane take off
01:39:21
knowing full well what was going to happen. >> That gets me. >> That's dark. That's again a level of
01:39:26
just like >> Mhm. >> I'm not armchair diagnosing, but like that's just a level of psychopathy.
01:39:31
That's wild. >> Yeah. That's a level of like you're not a human that you're a monster.
01:39:35
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> I hope that his wife and his kids did okay afterwards. >> I feel awful for them.
01:39:41
>> So sad. >> I really do feel awful for them. >> Wow. Yeah. I had never >> And Helen
01:39:46
>> and his sister. I know. cuz she lost her whole family. >> Yeah. And she was living in Alaska
01:39:51
>> and she was gonna go visit her, right? >> And they're trying to, you know, she's
01:39:55
probably trying to rebuild a relationship as well. And it's like everybody deals with that differently.
01:40:00
>> And that opportunity got taken away from her. It's like >> And then she also lost her brother.
01:40:04
>> Yeah. And she's gone through she went through the same kind of [ __ ] you know what I mean? That he went through.
01:40:10
She was abandoned by obviously he got put in an orphanage, so that's a whole different set of trauma. But she also
01:40:15
went through a [ __ ] ton of trauma. That's the thing. And you can't compare whose trauma that you can't be like this
01:40:20
one's worse. Trauma is different. It was all trauma. It's just different. Like it's just different kind of trauma
01:40:26
>> and sad. It's just sad. >> It really does. I just feel awful. >> I hope that like her and Gloria somehow
01:40:32
were able to >> connect and that like the kids got to know Helen, you know? >> I just hope there was some happiness or
01:40:40
>> Exactly. >> that came out of, you know, away from this. >> Exactly. >> Wow. What a Yeah, what a tragic tale.
01:40:46
It's a rough one. >> Um, well, we did a spooky episode before this. So, if you haven't listened to
01:40:51
that for some reason and you need a palette cleanser, >> go listen to it. Have it
01:40:54
>> cuz that one we're we're joking, we're laughing. It's a fun one. Yeah. >> So, that'll get you a little more on the
01:40:59
>> Yeah, we're not super serious on that one. >> Um, so with that being said, we hope you
01:41:04
keep listening >> and we hope you >> keep it weird, but not so weird that you let a year'sl long vendetta allow you to
01:41:11
kill a bunch of innocent people. >> Yeah, that's wild. >> You don't want to do that. You really
01:41:15
don't. And just love each other and take care of each other, please. >> That part, you know, and take care of
01:41:20
yourself. >> Yeah. >> Cuz like Rupaul says, if you can't love yourself, how in the hell are you going
01:41:25
to love somebody else? Can I get an amen? >> Amen. [Music] [Music]