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Hey weirdos, I'm Elena. I'm Ash. >> And this is Morbid. >> [music] [music] >> This is Morbid. Uh first thing I want to
00:00:20
say is [ __ ] ice so hard. >> Times two. >> Yeah, [ __ ] ice. [ __ ] that whole thing.
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Um it's absolutely tragic what happened to Renee Good. >> Yeah, she was murdered.
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>> I I have no words. I have no words. It's horrific what's happening, but the fact
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that we live in a place where a man can shoot a woman in the face in broad daylight over essentially nothing.
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>> Mhm. That's scary. >> Yeah, I think I think it's We've all seen the videos. We've all seen it and you know
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I I I know what I saw. Yeah, she was turning her car around. >> what I saw. Uh but one thing I do want
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to say is like it's really hard right now to be happy about anything or find any kind of joy in anything and I I
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totally get that, but it's a really important that you try to. >> Yes. >> [laughter]
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>> It's really important. Like even just little things. Like you know how I mentioned like turn on some [ __ ] soft
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jazz >> on your old radio. >> old-timey Bluetooth radio >> Yes. >> in the morning. [ __ ] like that.
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>> one of those the other day. >> Yeah, just make like any little thing you can find that makes it a little
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easier to to exist. >> Do you know what I found so much joy in >> What? the other day? I'm tradwifing so
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close to the sun lately. >> Oh, damn. Mopping all my floors. I found I'm not kidding. I found such [ __ ]
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joy mopping my floors the other day. The smell of Pine-Sol sends me. >> Hey, whatever sparks joy.
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>> It sparks joy and makes the place clean. >> Made the place clean, smells good, woke
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up this morning, [ __ ] still smelled like Pine-Sol and I organized my little beverage drawer.
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>> Ah. And a lot of people said, Ash, where are the fridge siggies? And I'm trying
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to give them up. >> She's trying. >> I'm really trying to give them up. I'm not going to tell you to give them up. I
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think you should still drink them. >> Especially if it brings you joy. >> If it brings you joy, crack open a cold
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one, baby. >> Cuz I'm I'm being like we're we're like we're joking about these silly like
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fridge cigarettes and everything, but I'm being very serious when I say I really think it's important to find
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little joys because everything sucks so much. And I've seen a lot of people like
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saying like they feel really depressed and I get it. We all get it. Like that's And I just don't want I don't want
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everyone falling into like not being able to find anything because then we'll all
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then it just really sucks. >> Yeah, absolutely. >> Um but so it's And again, little things.
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>> What are you finding joy in aside from your radio? What's your newest joy? My
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cooking. Cooking, meal prepping. >> Yeah, I love it. Getting ready for the like that get that gives me some sense
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of joy. And like I have my little notebook that I'm obsessed with. >> I bought one.
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>> See, you got to get yourself a nice notebook that And it's got to be a notebook that if you're one of those
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people, cuz I'm one of those people that was obsessed with planners forever, but
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you would buy a planner every few months, start it, and then abandon it immediately.
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>> I too am one of those people because it's pre-planned out. >> That's the thing. I'm I'm here to tell
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you that it's not that you don't want to be organized or that you don't want like
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it it's not you. It's not you. It's the planner. >> It's not you. And I think if that is
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you, cuz that was me, get yourself a plain fancy leather bound if you want or anything that you feel special about
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notebook and then you can make it your own. And I swear to you that changed my life.
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>> Yeah, I really want to start junk journaling. I keep seeing TikToks of people doing that and they put like
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stickers and they write calligraphy and they just like one page is like all the books they read and the next is like a
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calendar. Like there's no rhyme or reason and that's how my brain works. >> Yeah.
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>> If it's in a planner, it's like what are you doing on Monday? What about Tuesday?
00:03:57
Thursday, [ __ ] what's going on? And I'm like feels a little too old. And then you can make your own
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little weekly like I make my own weekly plan thing on a page and then I control it.
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>> Yeah, it's controlled. >> I think it's important that control what you can control right now. Mhm. It's my
00:04:12
advice. Even who knows? Maybe it'll work, maybe it won't, but that's all I got. That's all you have for right now.
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>> so vulnerable right now. Uh-oh. No, it's fine. I'm just kidding. >> [laughter]
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>> No, it's literally fine. I found joy in one of those foot mask things and I'm
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going to find joy when my feet start peeling. >> I'm really excited. >> guys haven't seen those, they're pretty
00:04:31
[ __ ] great. >> gnarly as hell. I showed it to Drew last night and he was like, that's going to
00:04:36
happen to your feet? >> like little booties that have like this crazy lotion in them and you let them
00:04:41
sit for a while. It's not I don't love that part of it. >> love that part. >> not like the feeling of that.
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>> so much sense. >> Uh I loved that part of it. It was so lovely cuz it's like a cold like
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>> Yeah, I did not like that part. >> It's not even it's like a kind of liquidy a little bit.
00:04:55
>> Yep. Sure it is. >> it a lot. >> I didn't keep it on for as long as I should have because I could not handle
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it. >> I kept it on for an hour and a half. >> That's wild. >> How long did you leave yours on for?
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>> Probably 20 minutes. >> And your foot still peeled? Your feet? >> Cuz a few days later your feet will
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start to peel and then you have like baby's butt feet. >> But it looks crazy. >> It does. I'm afraid for some reason I'm
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going to be the I'm afraid of my feet peeling like that and I'm also afraid that they're I'm going to be the one
00:05:19
person it doesn't work on. >> Yeah. I I have such fear related to feet. >> [laughter]
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>> way, really. Those are the two ways it will go. >> Yeah, there's only two. Well, hopefully
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>> It'll either peel or won't peel. >> What if I just wake up with no feet? That would be
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>> [laughter] >> crazy. They just peel off. >> That that's a lawsuit. So that That that I feel like you could win.
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There you go. I could find joy in winning that. >> Yeah, find joy. Um but yeah, we What
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else is has been has been going on besides >> Your book is out. >> Oh, yeah, that's a big deal. Sorry.
00:05:51
>> [laughter] >> Sorry, everybody. >> I think you wrote another book. >> Cuz there's a lot going on. It's hard to
00:05:55
think of these things. Um but yeah, uh The Butcher Legacy is out. It's out. It's about It's ready to
00:06:02
be pre-ordered. Go get it. >> There's still special editions, too. >> There's still special editions. There's
00:06:06
also signed editions at Barnes & Noble. And there's only a limited number of those and they're almost gone. So if
00:06:14
you're looking for a signed edition, go to Barnes & Noble and get it because they will be gone.
00:06:18
>> And to find all of the links, you can go to >> butcherlegacy.com. Comes out August
00:06:23
11th. You can pre-order it now. >> Perfect. Perfect. So books, feet, >> books, feet,
00:06:30
>> joy, find some joy if you can. >> And [ __ ] ice and you know ev you know here we are, everybody.
00:06:37
>> Here we are. We love you. Love you. And we're in this together. Together. So here we are.
00:06:43
>> Here we are. Um just a little quick side note for you guys. Going forward, so this uh new moon
00:06:49
bonus episode is going to be a little bit later than we said. We just need like a little more time to get it
00:06:52
together. And going forward, we're going to be releasing all the bonus episodes on the last Friday of the month.
00:06:59
>> Yeah, so this one will be coming out on the 30th, January 30th. So it's just 2
00:07:04
weeks from now it'll be coming out. So look forward to that cuz we're putting all the [ __ ] work into it. And it's
00:07:10
going to be great. >> And we're excited for the rest of them. >> I [ __ ] love doing this little series.
00:07:15
>> Hell yeah. Um I have a crazy case for you today. >> as well. I might as well. Why not?
00:07:21
>> We are going to be talking about Ricky Kasso, the acid king. Ah. >> And I'm talking LSD. I'm not talking
00:07:30
>> like acid that puts people in barrels. Which is a honestly an important distinction on this podcast.
00:07:35
>> Oh my god, I was You took the words out of my mouth. I said in a place of morbid, you must distinguish.
00:07:40
>> Because to be quite honest, when you first said that, I was like, uh-oh. Do you know I saw that in your eyes and
00:07:46
that's why I differentiated. >> going for it. >> I said I'll tell you exactly what we're
00:07:49
getting into. It's brutal. >> going to say it's probably still brutal, but just in a different way. So let's
00:07:54
talk about it. We're going to talk about an area situated on Long Island's North
00:07:59
Shore, about 50 miles from Manhattan, called Northport. It's like the quintessential bedroom community. It was
00:08:06
dotted with Victorian houses, ice cream shops, antique stores. I would have wanted to go there and walk around. Just
00:08:13
your typical in a quiet town where nothing terrible ever happened. Keith Morrison just walked right in. Thank
00:08:19
you. I really did a bad impression of him, but that was my attempt. >> Yeah, I mean there's only one Keith. OG
00:08:25
Keith. But given how popular the occult had become by the early 1970s, it was only a matter of time before that made
00:08:32
its way to Long Island. >> good for the occult, you know. Yeah, the occult gaining popularity. The occult
00:08:36
You're The occult is a big part of this story and also no part of this story at the same time.
00:08:41
>> Love that. It's interesting. >> That's interesting, for sure. So on November 13th, 1974, you might remember,
00:08:47
23-year-old Ronald DeFeo Jr. shot and killed all six members of his family in Amityville.
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>> I do remember that. >> That's only about a half hour from Northport. Wow. Mhm, okay. To
00:08:58
everybody's surprise, he later claimed that he was possessed by an evil entity at the time of the murders. You know,
00:09:03
you remember. It really didn't do much to help his defense, but it did hypercharge the growing interest in the
00:09:09
occult and the supernatural. And that had a lot to do with Ed and Lorraine Warren. I'm sure you know them.
00:09:15
You know them. >> Yeah, within a few days or a few years, excuse me, of the which is honestly
00:09:19
surprisingly it wasn't a few days. >> [laughter] >> I'm surprised it wasn't hours. Within
00:09:23
within a few minutes >> Yeah. of the murders, the Warrens and other experts in the paranormal were on
00:09:28
magazines, they were appearing on talk shows, tabloids all across the country, either promoting their services or
00:09:35
warning about the increasing influence of the devil the devil on American culture.
00:09:40
>> [snorts] >> So the murder of the DeFeo family was obviously a huge moment that only added
00:09:45
fuel to everybody's obsession with the supernatural, especially in the '70s and the '80s. But there had actually been
00:09:51
rumors of an evil preven evil presence on Long Island even before those murders occurred.
00:09:57
>> Mhm. According to author Jesse [ __ ] in the early 1970s, the villagers of Northport began to whisper about a coven
00:10:04
of witches meeting inside the forest holding midnight ceremonies after an evening of robbing graves. Okay, aside
00:10:11
from the robbing graves part that sounds awesome. I knew you were going to say that. We got to get rid of the robbing
00:10:16
graves. Yes, don't rob the graves. Jesus, that's actually that's something that just happened. What?
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>> side quest. Would that become another another part of my story today? Tell me.
00:10:26
The big story just came out. It happened in Pennsylvania. This guy, what the [ __ ] is his name?
00:10:34
Tell me. Jonathan Gerlock, I believe. He had basically a hundred bodies, like parts of bodies, like
00:10:45
hundreds of them. He had grave robbed forever and he had them around his house. He was selling them. He's He's
00:10:50
He's Ed Gein, essentially. >> He had like an online presence, too, I guess. And people didn't know that he was like
00:11:00
doing this [ __ ] but I think what was his name? His name was like dead dead stuff daddy or something like that.
00:11:09
Something very >> If that's not exactly what his name was, I won't I don't even think it's that far
00:11:14
off, to be quite honest. Dead stuff daddy? Hold, please. I'm going to look it up. Hello? It's a big deal. Like he
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was He wasn't like he was robbing graves. He was breaking into mausoleums to steal like literally destroying
00:11:28
mausoleums, like crazy [ __ ] >> you want a mausoleum? That's the So I mean my mausoleum now I got to upgrade
00:11:35
the security on the mausoleum, I'll ensure that if you go first. That's the one thing about being
00:11:41
cremated that is maybe a little bit better. Like nobody can steal your body later,
00:11:46
but that does happen because there's all those crazy stories about cremation where like you go in to get cremated and
00:11:52
they don't even cremate your body. They just keep you. Exactly. And then they just like stack you somewhere. It's
00:11:56
really [ __ ] terrible that you have to Do you really want to know about what happens after you die? Like you kind of
00:12:01
do, but like you're dead. But this is awful. So there's more than a hundred human remains, some dating back decades
00:12:07
or even centuries. Centuries? >> Yep, they said they He was selling some of these things online. Some of these
00:12:13
remains included infants. Um Oh, that's so sad. >> He I mean he had he He admitted to
00:12:21
stealing from at least 30 graves in like a nearby cemetery. There was corpses hanging from the
00:12:27
ceiling. In his house? >> Yeah. There was eight more bodies in a storage locker.
00:12:34
He uh he used he like used tools, like literally crowbars and [ __ ] to break into mausoleums, burial vaults, all
00:12:40
kinds of things. >> I feel like the scary thing about this, too, is it's like I don't know how
00:12:46
things are now as far as like laws go with grave robbing and that kind of thing, but remember that podcast that we
00:12:50
listened to about the guy who worked at the crematorium Yeah. Noble. Such a good show. Please listen
00:12:59
to that podcast. >> But remember when it came time to prosecute that guy, there was all these
00:13:03
issues because they didn't really know what charges to bring against him. It's so weird.
00:13:07
>> And that was like way back in the I think like early to mid-2000s. >> It's I don't know what that I mean he's
00:13:12
definitely being charged with stuff. >> say what he's been charged with yet? I don't know yet. I'm sure they have, but
00:13:17
I don't By the way, his name online was dead [ __ ] daddy. So I was not far off.
00:13:23
Oh my god. >> I told you I was not kidding. That was not me being a person. >> online? Um I think he just had like a
00:13:29
lot of like what people with like art and stuff. >> They thought was art. >> were just thinking it was like spooky
00:13:36
art. >> Yeah. Like I mean who knows how many people knew what was going on, but like
00:13:41
yeah, it's like a big deal. It's like an ongoing thing right now. It's a very big
00:13:45
>> was just arrested. Yeah, he was just arrested. Literally with corpses hanging
00:13:49
from a ceiling. Like it is straight up Ed Gein. >> That's like almost worse. Yeah.
00:13:54
He just had that like murdered someone like Ed Gein. But like that's a mass The amount And
00:14:02
the thing is he was going like like some of the most of these cemeteries were being like kind of like abandoned
00:14:07
almost, like not being kept up. And then some of them were, obviously, but like he was kind of going towards ones that
00:14:12
were like vulnerable. >> Yeah. We got to take care of cemeteries. >> We absolutely do. They're really not
00:14:17
well taken care of like at all. >> it's a bummer. >> I follow so many people that go and like
00:14:21
clean up gravestones and that kind of thing. It's awesome. And I think there's like
00:14:25
there's I donated to this like foundation [snorts] to keep up cemeteries and they they've
00:14:30
been keeping up cemeteries in New Orleans, like trying to keep those going. Save our cemeteries. Save our
00:14:35
cemeteries. I'd donate. Yeah, and you can donate to them. They do a lot of benefits. That's
00:14:42
really cool. And they just they're trying to preserve like historical cemeteries and any kind of they just
00:14:47
want to keep cemeteries like taken care of and safe. Hell yeah, donate to them. And you can find them at
00:14:52
savesourcemeteries.org. That's so easy. Yeah, so easy. So do that because especially with this [ __ ]
00:14:58
going on, if you can even donate like a dollar or something to it. Just to Clearly we need more [ __ ] being
00:15:06
happening to our cemeteries to keep them safe. Yeah, we need some upkeep. >> Cuz there needs to be respect.
00:15:11
Well, I don't really know how to transition back into this. >> That just it really reminded me that
00:15:15
that's a big thing happening right now and I was like I should tell you. >> That wasn't me saying how dare you
00:15:19
interrupt me. That was just like damn, that's a hard segue. >> Here we go. Here we go. He was grave
00:15:24
robbing. These witches who were probably just women hanging out probably weren't.
00:15:28
Okay. So, but years earlier, the woods in Northport had become a popular lovers lane area with teenagers.
00:15:34
>> Oh, excuse me. So the rumors of witchcraft in the woods were probably just an attempt to keep them from going
00:15:39
out there. People were like maybe don't park in the woods, like that's dangerous. I mean that's a good way to
00:15:43
do it. Yeah, but still with fears of Satanism on the rise and the supposedly supernaturally motivated DeFeo murders
00:15:49
having happened nearby and pretty recently, the whispered rumors of the witches soon became a widespread local
00:15:55
legend. So in the years since the murder of Gary Lauwers, which we're going to talk about today, rumors and all these
00:16:01
urban legends about the woods around Northport have multiplied and they've gotten all like mixed up in the game of
00:16:06
telephone. Some people say it started all the way back in 1658 when Goody Garlick, Yep. a local occult
00:16:15
practitioner, Garlick? Goody Garlick, a local occult practitioner, was charged with witchcraft and put on trial. No.
00:16:22
That was the start of the Northport woods drama. Listen to me right now. If somebody whose name is Goody Garlick
00:16:29
tells you some [ __ ] it's true. It's 100% true. >> It's fact. And you you move with that
00:16:36
information as if it is fact. >> You must listen. Yeah. And if she was hanged, I'm done. I'll
00:16:42
revolution. Truly. >> Goody Garlick? Goody Garlick. We we ride for Goody Garlick.
00:16:47
>> Garlick. Like I'd like to look into if I'm an ancestor. I was going to say cuz
00:16:51
any recipe that calls for garlic doubled, tripled, quadrupled, in fact. Obviously just the whole whole thing. I
00:16:58
measure garlic with my heart. >> Oh, absolutely. >> Especially garlic. Garlic and vanilla
00:17:04
extract you measure with your heart. Vanilla extract, two tablespoons, obviously.
00:17:08
>> from me to you. Yeah, no, not really, but So others connect the supernatural happenings to tortured spirits of former
00:17:15
Native Americans who belonged to the area first and obviously were wrongfully killed.
00:17:19
>> Also valid. Very valid. But whatever the case, rumors about the Northport woods
00:17:23
would soon give way to an even more horrifying and very true story that would shake the residents of Northport
00:17:29
for decades to come. So let's get into it. In the early 1960s, Richard Dick Cavasso was teaching
00:17:36
at Northport Junior High and he met his future wife Lynn, who was also a teacher.
00:17:40
They dated for a few years. They got married in 1965 and their son Ricky Jr., who we're going
00:17:46
to be talking about today, was born a couple years later in 1967. They had three more kids, all girls, shortly
00:17:52
after Ricky. And to their friends and neighbors, they pretty much appeared to have an idyllic
00:17:57
life. A home in a quiet neighborhood. They had reliable jobs. They had a happy family. They went to church every
00:18:04
Sunday. What more could you ask for? >> literally just going to say that. What more could you ask for?
00:18:09
As a child, Ricky Jr. was pretty ordinary. He was much like other kids. He liked to be outside. He
00:18:15
which it sounds crazy now, but I think it was a little more popular like in the '60s and '70s. He spent a lot of time in
00:18:20
the woods. He was collecting leaves, rocks, insects. >> That was popular in the '90s, babe.
00:18:26
That's crazy. >> [laughter] >> We were in the woods I grew up in the '80s when you could not be in the woods
00:18:31
anymore. I'm surprised my mom didn't let me go in the woods, to be honest. [ __ ] killer clowns walking around.
00:18:37
Not until 2016, but damn, still. I know. I mean we went to high school parties in
00:18:41
the woods. That was That was brave. But anyway, he got along well with his three sisters, but he got along the most
00:18:46
with his youngest sister Wendy. Family friend Sue remembered, Ricky loved Wendy. He would say, "My Wendy, my
00:18:51
little Wendy Lou." Aw. He seemed to be like more than just a brother or protector. He was her closest friend.
00:18:58
And this is so sad. He seemed to be the only person in the family who really paid any attention to Wendy. Aw, poor
00:19:04
Wendy. >> she just got like the [ __ ] end of the stick. >> Yeah. But it wasn't just his sister Ricky was
00:19:09
popular with. He had friends in the family's neighborhood in Northport. He would play football with them, other
00:19:15
sports out in the neighborhood. And for Dick Cavasso, the his dad, the coach of the local high school football
00:19:20
team, there was nothing that could have made him made him happier that his only son showing a super strong interest in
00:19:26
sports, especially football. Sports. Wendy said, "Nothing else could compete with my father's love of sports, not
00:19:33
even his kids. Sports were his entire life." That's the worst, truly. Like that is the As someone who genuinely
00:19:41
enjoys some sports, Yeah. >> that's the worst. >> I just started enjoying one sport, yeah,
00:19:46
basketball, but >> shouldn't come before your kids. It will never come before my kids. Yeah. Uh but
00:19:52
all of the Casso children had to play sports. They had no choice and Dick was pretty explicit in his expectation that
00:19:58
they had to win as well. >> Oh, okay. >> Like you you sport and you win at sport.
00:20:02
>> you win. That's it. Win, sport, sport, win. Don't sport unless you're going to
00:20:06
win. Wendy said if you were if what you were [laughter] doing wasn't related to sports, it wasn't important.
00:20:12
No sport, no important. No important. >> No sport, no important. >> their motto. Yeah.
00:20:18
TM. TM. So Ricky's interest in sports might have made his dad happy, but that didn't mean that he was particularly
00:20:23
interested in playing them or that he was really even very good at any of the sports that he played. I feel like I'm
00:20:28
saying sports so much. >> Sports. Sports. Ricky go sports. Go sports. Ricky was pretty average in a lot of things that
00:20:34
he did. He was a good brother, a good friend, a good neighbor, but when it came to things like school and sports,
00:20:40
sports. he put in a pretty modest amount of effort and got modest results. >> Hey, all right.
00:20:45
>> You know, he did what he could, got what he did. You get what you put out, I suppose. Also, the sports thing, I'm
00:20:51
taking another turn. It's really quick though. >> Do it. I don't know if I've mentioned
00:20:54
this TikTok creator before, but you should go follow them. They're Vintage Recipes. Vintage Recipes.
00:20:59
>> Yeah, and he makes crazy ass vintage recipes, but he's the funniest person ever and every time he does something
00:21:04
like throw something in the air and catch it, he says sports. I've seen him. >> It makes me laugh every time. Sports. I
00:21:09
like and also you say that a lot now too. >> Yeah, or he'll like that. >> [laughter]
00:21:14
>> I in fact don't like that. I think it's the funniest thing in the world. dislike
00:21:19
that. >> I watch it, you'll love it. I like his videos. Yeah. I think when you say it,
00:21:24
it freaks me out. I don't know why. It's nothing personal. I still like it. >> Wow. Wow. Carry on, I guess.
00:21:28
>> [laughter] >> I don't like it. So for Dick, the modest effort was fine when Ricky was like 8 or 10, but once he
00:21:34
got into middle school, Ricky's like ambivalence became a very big point of contention between them. One of Casso's
00:21:41
Little League teammates said, "Dick used to scream and degrade his kid whenever Ricky didn't perform well." So he was
00:21:46
like not great. >> like we've all seen that dad who you're like They're in third grade and this is like
00:21:52
competition. This is a relay race, sir. Like It's okay. [laughter] It's like really.
00:21:57
But while things at home were growing increasingly tense because sports as Ricky got older, sports. he started
00:22:02
spending a lot less time at home and much more time looking for opportunities to escape his unpleasant life.
00:22:08
One day in the fall of 1977 when he was in fifth grade, a friend's brother gave him a hit off a joint and the experience
00:22:14
changed his life. >> He's in fifth grade? >> He was 10. My god. >> He was 10. Lord. So when he was high,
00:22:21
everything felt better, more enjoyable, his life didn't seem as difficult. And at first he would just smoke
00:22:26
occasionally whenever the opportunity presented itself, which for a 10-year-old was not that often.
00:22:32
I would imagine. But I mean it was the '70s. Yeah. But by the time he was 12, his peers had also really developed an
00:22:39
interest in smoking weed. >> no. I did not smoke weed that early. But soon Ricky
00:22:44
>> Really just to be clear. >> I'm like let's be explicit right now. It wasn't much later than that, but it was
00:22:49
not 12. Damn. Yeah, it was a tough life. But soon Ricky was leaving home early every
00:22:54
morning to get high with his friends before school. And we're talking like sixth and seventh grade.
00:22:59
>> Oh my god. It's sad. Babies. I do remember kids though like doing that in like seventh, eighth grade. Lord. That
00:23:06
is when it started. Scary. So for Ricky who was constantly seeking an escape, smoking weed obviously led to
00:23:12
experimentation with other drugs and he managed to get his hands on what he and his friends thought was mescaline or
00:23:17
mescaline, but what turned out to be acid or LSD. Oh [ __ ] Yeah. A little different.
00:23:24
>> Yeah. And he was young. Yeah, he was very >> never something you want to be surprised
00:23:28
with, I imagine, but No, definitely not. >> mean mescaline would also probably be
00:23:32
pretty bad. I'm pretty sure there's like I don't even know what that is. What I looked it up, but I think there was I
00:23:37
think there's like peyote in it. Holy [ __ ] >> I could be wrong. Let me double check so
00:23:41
I'm not giving you false information about drugs. Peyote's come up a lot in our lives.
00:23:45
>> No, I know. That's why I remember that. But just to clear that up. So [laughter]
00:23:49
it there's Go watch The Watcher. Yeah, it came up in The Watcher. That's actually why I remembered that. So it
00:23:54
there's not peyote in mescaline, but it's similar. Like if the effects are similar to if you did peyote.
00:23:59
>> Peyote vibes. Peyote vibes, exactly. [laughter] Put that on a shirt. >> Got it. So he they thought they were
00:24:04
getting that kind of vibe and so they got LSD, which I would assume is kind of similar. Yeah, I mean that yeah. But
00:24:10
from what little I know about those two experiences, I imagine they're kind of similar. Yeah, I don't know. I never
00:24:15
tripped. >> Yeah. But his friend Mark Fisher told a reporter, "First time he tripped in
00:24:19
seventh grade art class, art class. Holy [ __ ] he'd drawn a dragon on the board and said it started to move." I
00:24:25
mean I was like that's the most quintessential trip story I've ever heard in my life.
00:24:30
>> also very uh kind of adorable. Yeah, in a weird way. >> stories go. Like I drew it. I was in art class. I
00:24:38
drew a dragon and the dragon moved. That's the kind of awesome. >> you would been in high school, not
00:24:43
seventh grade. Yeah, I wish you were not a child on acid at that moment, but like
00:24:47
[laughter] But if but if but if you I wish you were not a child on acid go squatting But if
00:24:53
you must be, drawing a dragon and having it move, I suppose is the best case scenario to be quite honest. Facts.
00:25:00
Agree. Agree hard. This is just pretty terrible all of the way around. >> It gets worse. I'm just trying to find
00:25:05
the joy, you know. >> you are. Like you said at the top of this in the little thing.
00:25:10
So in the eyes of a lot of his friends and his classmates, Ricky's drug use, especially during class, made him seem
00:25:15
cool. We all remember that one kid. It's not cool, kids. Drugs aren't cool. Drugs
00:25:20
are bad. I wonder if DARE was a thing back then. I don't know when DARE started.
00:25:24
Wasn't that like an '80s thing? I think you're right. When did DARE start? >> Yeah, might have been '90s.
00:25:30
1983. Oh, there we go. Look at that. >> you're I it made sense that it was the '80s. It felt it feels like a very '80s
00:25:36
or '90s thing. I remember the especially the logo DARE so vividly. I did too. Remember that big suitcase full of
00:25:44
[ __ ] paraphernalia and pills that they showed us? >> anyone will ever forget the day that
00:25:48
they brought like Vicodin and cocaine and heroin into our class. >> on that big like thing, yeah. Like the
00:25:55
suitcase and then they opened it and it was like zooms down. The cocaine package just like fell down.
00:26:00
>> like [laughter] holy [ __ ] >> oh my god, there's drugs. They were like, "Ricky, his older
00:26:05
brother says that drugs are cool. What would you say?" >> say? I was like not cool. What would you
00:26:11
tell him? And we And we we did the pact. And I signed that [ __ ] >> of people that broke that [ __ ] pact.
00:26:17
I broke I broke that pact not two years later. [laughter] I I kept that pact. >> what? I you can't sign under distress
00:26:24
and I was probably just That is signing under distress. [laughter] We weren't old enough to sign contracts.
00:26:29
>> Yeah, my I was not legally binding. Thank god. So people at first thought he was cool.
00:26:35
Yeah. His friend said, "We had a sit-out one time." Could you imagine a junior high sit-out did it today? Holy [ __ ]
00:26:42
man. It's crazy. Holy [ __ ] Soon Ricky had become kind of like the de facto leader of a small group of boys who
00:26:48
looked up to him and they'd all get high together before, during, and after school at this point. They're all high
00:26:52
high y'all high. >> They're all high. All the time. So the thing was for 12 and 13-year-olds, money
00:26:57
was scarce and without it, there wasn't [laughter] going to be any drugs. So in order to support now like a
00:27:03
growing habit, which like we can joke, but now he's like slowly getting addicted to drugs.
00:27:08
>> Horrifying. Like this is a horrifying situation that like literal children are
00:27:13
hooked on acid at that point. It's bad. This is gross. So Ricky turned to petty theft and he broke into a nearby church
00:27:21
where not he not only stole money from the collection box, but he even grabbed a box of the body of Christ crackers on
00:27:29
his way out the door. He stole not only money, but the body of Christ. That's big. That's I mean that's
00:27:38
>> I'm also like why would you choose those crackers? I've never had them, but I
00:27:41
heard they're not good. I think it maybe That's also coming up a lot in our life
00:27:45
later. >> What is going on right now? >> Life is a simulation. We're plugged in somewhere.
00:27:49
>> is coming up right now, but I was saying this and you can feel however you want to feel about the body
00:27:54
of Christ crackers. What are they? Communion Eucharist. Eucharist. Boom. Look at you. I didn't even do that.
00:28:00
Eucharist. I think it is terrible. That's just me. I think it tastes like water. Like a
00:28:07
I think it tastes like a stale It's like when you have COVID and you bite into a
00:28:11
sandwich and you can't taste it and it just tastes like water. Yeah. Yeah. I think That's just me though.
00:28:16
>> like he didn't steal those to eat. I feel like he had to have stolen them just like for shits. But like why else
00:28:21
are you stealing them? Cuz like like you're stealing the body of Christ from a church. Just for the
00:28:26
just for the rush of it. To be like I took their [ __ ] crackers, too. >> the body of Christ. What are they going
00:28:31
to do tomorrow? >> What are they going to do? >> know. What are they going to do
00:28:34
tomorrow, you know? I don't know. What are they going to do? I don't know. What did they do? Earlier today I said that
00:28:39
if I was allowed to take the body of Christ back in like when I did go to church sometimes,
00:28:44
I would just go eh if I could. If I was allowed to take the Eucharist, I would make the stallion it, but eh.
00:28:51
They try to get that on my tongue. Because I feel like some we were saying some older people don't do the hand
00:28:56
thing where you put it in the hand, they just stick their tongue out and they're
00:28:58
like put it right on there. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, that's adult. I don't like that. I don't like it.
00:29:03
>> I would not want to be the guy giving it out either. >> No. So anyway. >> Just in case. By the next year, Ricky's
00:29:09
criminal behavior escalated to the point where he was not only stealing the body
00:29:12
of Christ, but he was also breaking into houses and stealing from his neighbors,
00:29:15
which is an un-neighborly thing to do. >> And really [ __ ] up and it also shows a
00:29:19
level of desperation that is very sad. This is also just [ __ ] insane. Wait until you hear this. Retired police
00:29:26
officer Gene Rohmer remembered there was a newspaper back then called the Northport Journal. We used to call it
00:29:31
the criminal's best friend because they would announce when locals would be going on vacation and how long they'd be
00:29:38
gone. Who the [ __ ] came up with that? >> thought of that? >> Why would you Why would you ever Stand
00:29:45
up. Who the [ __ ] [laughter] did that? >> Like, why? >> That's literally diabolical.
00:29:51
>> No, it is. >> That was made by a criminal. >> Absolutely. >> to have been. And also, how the [ __ ] do
00:29:56
you know when I'm going on vacation and how long I'll be? >> Well, that's the other thing. I was
00:30:00
like, people must have had to be like, "Oh, me and the Jones family are going to the Bahamas for 7 to 10 days."
00:30:06
>> I I >> Why would you submit to that? >> I rebuke that. >> I rebuke that. I do, too. No. But now
00:30:13
armed with a schedule of locals' vacations, Ricky and his friends could just be pretty sure they were in the
00:30:18
clear to sneak into those houses and steal everything that they could to get drugs.
00:30:22
>> Here you go. Without anybody even realizing that they'd been there. Yeah, you might as well roll out the red
00:30:26
carpet at that point. Honestly. >> Let's go. It just reminds me of Home Alone. Yeah. So, unfortunately, Ricky's
00:30:32
luck obviously eventually ran out. And that was when he and some friends were picked up by police after breaking into
00:30:37
a local house where they stole alcohol and silverware. Shitty. Yeah. At first, his parents
00:30:44
>> Exactly. At first, his parents took him >> I mean, he did, not the people who
00:30:47
weren't there. Oh, yeah, absolutely. It was Ricky. >> clear, I wasn't like, "You had to come
00:30:50
and then he was going to steal your stuff." You idiots, why would you tell them when you were going on vacation?
00:30:54
[laughter] No, Ricky. So, at first, his parents took the news in stride. They were like, "You know,
00:30:59
maybe it's just our son sowing his wild oats, breaking into homes." Youthful being
00:31:05
But when they searched his room looking for the stolen items and they found a bong, their attitudes changed. Yeah.
00:31:10
Now, like, finding a bong in your kids' room is always pretty bad, but especially I think back then it was even
00:31:15
worse parents were like, "Oh my [ __ ] god." Like, I would imagine it would be so much worse back then.
00:31:22
I mean, I personally, if I found one in my child's room now, it would be as worse, I think.
00:31:26
>> Yeah, I believe that. Yeah. And as it should be. Yeah. I mean, if I find a bong in my kids' room, I'm going to have
00:31:31
like zero legs to stand on, but I'm going to be so [ __ ] angry. >> Yeah. That's the thing that sucks. But a few
00:31:37
years earlier, two local kids were killed in a car accident while they were driving under the influence. And in
00:31:42
response, the town council approved the development of what was called Concepts for Narcotics Prevention, CNP. It was
00:31:50
like a church-run center that served as an alternative to like DARE, because DARE didn't exist They didn't figure
00:31:56
that amazing program out yet. They didn't They didn't get all the suitcase in order yet.
00:32:01
But after finding the bong in Ricky's room, his parents were concerned, obviously, that he was developing a
00:32:05
serious problem. So, they brought him to CNP to see a counselor. He was 13 at this point, by the way. 13?
00:32:12
>> like stealing from churches, breaking into neighbors' houses, dependent on drugs,
00:32:17
>> like fully dependent on drugs, scheduling sit-outs with his friends in junior high, high in school before
00:32:23
school and after school, like Damn. >> It's bad. Yeah, that's really bad. So, he showed no interest, obviously, in
00:32:30
stopping or even slowing down his drug use. And when he was confronted about the bong, he told the CNP counselor, "I
00:32:36
like what I'm doing." I mean, he's just telling it like it is at that point. >> Well, and it's a it's an escape for him,
00:32:43
which is sad. Like, if they had gone a little deeper, they probably would have been able to figure out why he needed to
00:32:48
escape from life. >> got to look at the root of the problem here. Mhm. But especially at 13 years
00:32:53
old. I don't think therapy was then what it is now. I know it's definitely not. >> [laughter]
00:32:59
>> So, the meeting at CNP marked a change in Ricky's relationship with his parents. He didn't go back to the center
00:33:04
again, but they did make him attend therapy with a psychiatrist, even though he didn't want to. Which was pretty good
00:33:10
parenting, I would say. Mhm. As again, especially for back then. Yeah, that's like pretty big. Yeah, cuz like nobody
00:33:16
was especially not sending boys to therapy. >> No, definitely not. Which is [ __ ]
00:33:19
crazy. But Ricky refused to engage with the psychiatrist, and after a few sessions,
00:33:24
the doctor was like, "Yeah, this is a waste of my [ __ ] time. I can't just sit here and stare at him." Yeah, he
00:33:27
said Ricky was sabotaging the sessions. Which, you know, like, it happens. I sabotaged a few psych- psychiatric
00:33:35
sessions, too. >> been there? I don't know." >> Yeah. But in the months that followed, Ricky's
00:33:39
relationships with his parents started to decline even more so. And by Christmas of 1980, he was no longer
00:33:45
living at home. He's literally a child. >> like 14 at this point. This is upsetting. Instead, he just kind
00:33:56
of like he would stay with friends, including his newest friend, Jimmy Trionfo. Like Ricky, Jimmy was also a
00:34:02
heavy drug user, who by all accounts was a quote, "failure at school to a degree
00:34:07
you would not believe." Whoa. Yeah. According to his classmates, Jimmy had an "I'm going to get you before you get
00:34:13
me" kind of personality, and he was constantly in trouble for breaking rules, getting into fights, being
00:34:20
disruptive, like he sucked. And his parents tried to encourage him to adopt a better attitude by also
00:34:25
taking him to CNP to see a counselor. But just like Ricky, he didn't take to the counseling. The senior counselor
00:34:32
there said, though, "Jimmy concerns me, because to put it simply, he had a problem seeing the difference between
00:34:37
right and wrong." Oh, that's really scary. >> Ricky was like, "Yeah, I like what I'm
00:34:41
doing and I'm going to keep doing it." But this guy had a problem. Jimmy was like, "I don't what's the [ __ ] issue?
00:34:46
Like, I don't give a shit." >> The the "I'm going to get you before you get me" thing is is definitely scary.
00:34:52
>> Yeah, especially for like a 14, 15-year-old. Exactly. So, the closer Ricky and Jimmy got, the worse their
00:34:57
relationship with everybody else got. Because I'm sure they developed that like, "Oh, it's it's us against the
00:35:02
world" mentality. >> us. That's the thing. us. Yep. They encouraged each others' drug use
00:35:07
and bad behavior. And whenever they got kicked out of their respective houses, they would hitchhike more than 200 miles
00:35:14
to the Castos' vacation cabin. Damn. They would hitchhike 200 miles? >> 200 miles.
00:35:21
Wow. >> Isn't that insane? >> I can't believe they got out of that. Especially in the Well, this was in the
00:35:26
early '80s, I guess. >> Early '80s, but still. >> So, pretty much every time that
00:35:30
happened, they were picked up by the police and returned to Northport, where they would be returned to their parents
00:35:34
and the cycle would just start all over again. This happened tons of times. Between 1980 and 1984, Ricky and Jimmy
00:35:41
fell into what was arguably the worst possible crowd they ever could have found themselves associated with, Cool.
00:35:47
the local drug dealers and teenage burnouts. Oh, boy. And during that time, their drug use escalated from weed and
00:35:54
acid, and now included PCP. Oh. Which like That can get scary. >> Yeah, PCP is very much known for causing
00:36:03
severe long-term effects on users. At the time, the two boys had been associated with a group of teenage drug
00:36:10
users who referred to themselves as the Knights of the Black Circle. Wow. Yeah. That's so cool.
00:36:17
Yeah. Rock on. >> Wow. So, for years, this is really sad, cuz remember, Northport has all these
00:36:23
like whispers of like occults happening. >> Yeah. For years, farm animals and the
00:36:28
occasional pet had gone missing in Northport. >> No. Yes, which fed the local rumors
00:36:33
about Satanism and witchcraft happening in the area. And in December of 1981, some locals
00:36:38
found the burned remains of a goat fetus on one of the stones one of the stone chessboards in the park.
00:36:44
>> Come on, man. Later, it would be revealed that an unhoused man had found the fetus in one of the fields of
00:36:50
Northport. He was starving and desperate, and he tried to cook it to feed himself, which is
00:36:55
even sadder than what you would imagine. >> that destroys me. But when it was first
00:37:00
discovered, it was understood by many to be further evidence of devil worship in
00:37:04
the area. And somebody reported to the Northport police that the Knights of the Black Circle were behind it. Ah.
00:37:10
Ultimately, they were not. What happened is what I told you. But everybody was like, "It must be the devil worshipers."
00:37:16
>> And then it doesn't matter what the facts are, it's just this is what I think, so this is what I'm going with.
00:37:20
>> Cuz then the when they tell you the real story, everybody's like, "Oh, that's a
00:37:22
cover-up." Yeah. And it's like, "No, that's actually much more plausible." >> No, that's literally what happened. So,
00:37:27
there were never really any real means of identifying who was a devil worshiper, like ever. But throughout the
00:37:33
1980s, as Satanic Panic was ever present in the US, Satanism quickly became associated, as we know, with a very
00:37:39
popular aesthetic, Yeah. >> People who were assumed to be involved in Satanism wore denim, which is insane.
00:37:47
Oh, yeah. >> Doesn't everybody wear denim? Every time I see someone in denim, I'm like,
00:37:50
"Trouble." Trouble, Satan. Mhm. Or they wore all black clothing, they had long hair, probably like dyed black hair,
00:37:58
they drank, they did drugs, and they listened listened to heavy metal music. >> Oh, this is very Paradise Lost. It's so
00:38:04
Paradise Lost. It's always what I think of whenever we talk about a case that involves Satanism, like {quote}
00:38:10
{unquote}. So, in Northport, that criteria best described the kids who called themselves
00:38:15
the Knights of the Black Circle. The discovery of the goat fetus and them being labeled as bad kids led to them
00:38:21
being associated with Satanism, but most of the teenagers who were in that little
00:38:25
like club weren't really into the occult at all. Just the aesthetic. Just the aesthetic, and like they were just using
00:38:33
drugs. Like, they weren't Satanists, they just had problems. So, Jonathan McCullar said of himself
00:38:38
and his friends in the Knights, "We were the absolute last of the hippies. We were about peace, love, and harmony."
00:38:44
Okay. >> Not Satanism. Yeah. Which actually, if you really look at Satanism, Yeah,
00:38:48
exactly. It actually is about that. >> [laughter] >> So, still though, like what they looked
00:38:52
like and the fact that they listened to heavy metal music and they it made the locals nervous. And that fear and
00:38:58
anxiety was projected onto them as a whole. Yeah. And he said he goes, "I guess it was because we were all a bunch
00:39:04
outcasts." Yeah, which is really sad. >> It really is, like, Paradise Lost. >> Yeah.
00:39:09
So, while they they may have been mostly harmless, that didn't mean that they were very big on the rules. Like Ricky
00:39:15
Kasso and his friends, the Knights spent a lot of time getting high, listening to
00:39:19
music, and when they weren't doing drugs, they were selling them or getting into fights over drugs and where you
00:39:25
like who could sell drugs where, territory. Sounds great. Yeah, it's all a mess.
00:39:29
Even McCullar was willing to admit that the group sometimes went out of their way to antagonize the locals. He said,
00:39:35
"The colors of The colors of our jackets were demonic, and that was to freak people out. It had nothing to do with
00:39:40
Satan. We just did that to repel people, which we accomplished. The Valid. I was
00:39:45
like, what color is demonic? Yeah, what is it just black? >> it black? >> Red. >> [snorts]
00:39:50
>> So, to Ricky Kasso, who was already spiraling out of control, associating himself with the Knights just made
00:39:55
sense. They were outcasts in one way or another. They really liked to get high a
00:39:59
lot of the times, and some of them had expressed interest in the occult. Okay. Which like In and of itself, that's not
00:40:05
a bad thing. >> In and of itself, exactly, it's not a bad thing. And at round that age, I
00:40:09
think a lot of people express interest Yeah, who wasn't a witch? Yeah, I had a [ __ ] coven in third grade.
00:40:14
>> Hell yeah. And I literally got a phone call home about it, you know. But in Ricky's case, his interest was
00:40:19
sparked innocently when he found a book on the occult at the local library. But according to his dad, it wasn't until
00:40:26
Ricky reached his teens that his interest became somewhat concerning. Dick Kasso later said, "The really
00:40:31
bizarre, really deviant behavior started in the seventh grade." Which makes sense, that's like Yeah.
00:40:36
>> really when he got like super into drugs. >> Yeah. From there, they said his interest in
00:40:40
the occult only and that scared both of his parents. Now, based on some people's memories, Ricky
00:40:48
had a very strong interest in the occults and like stories, things like that. But it's really unclear how strong
00:40:54
that interest was. >> Okay. Lots and lots of pretty innocuous things at that time were deemed to be
00:40:59
like related to Satanism and the occult, especially through the lens of the older
00:41:03
generation. Yep. And as devout Christians, Dick and Lin Kasso probably interpreted a lot of those interests
00:41:10
that were benign as being satanic. >> Yeah, that makes sense. But it should also be said that as a teenager looking
00:41:17
for attention wherever he could get it, there's a very good chance that Ricky played up his supposedly satanic
00:41:22
interest to get a reaction out of people. >> Which he basically said he did. >> Yeah, exactly.
00:41:27
>> Like the the Knights did. One local said, "Ricky was of the devil." When he was on acid, he'd go back up into the
00:41:33
dark woods up in Azetakia, and he would talk to the devil. He said the devil came in the form of a tree, which
00:41:40
sprouted out of the ground and glowed. Who said that? A local. Okay. Um Period. Period. Period. [laughter]
00:41:50
Wow, imagine believe Well, imagine being described as as of the devil. >> Of the devil. I'm kind of upset. If
00:41:56
somebody described me as of the devil >> Yeah. I think I might take that as a compliment.
00:42:00
>> described as of the devil. Absolutely, you have. [laughter] Positive of that.
00:42:04
Yeah, but but don't you kind of take that as a compliment? Yeah, the devil has never come to me in the form of a
00:42:09
tree. No. That I I can't claim. In the form of something else? >> No, I mean I don't think so. Okay. Yeah,
00:42:15
I'm sure. Like maybe an ex. Yeah. [laughter] Perhaps. Mine came in the form of my mom, so I got it. So, maybe
00:42:21
there's that. Not a tree though. No, not a tree. I'd actually like that. Yeah. Yeah. That's a lot less distressing. It
00:42:27
is. You know. So, by 1983, Ricky's antics had led to him becoming an outcast even in his own friend group.
00:42:34
>> Ooh. Uh by their own admission, they were the local outcasts, and now he was an outcast of outcasts.
00:42:39
>> Holy [ __ ] >> No bueno. So, in response, he dove obviously deeper into drug use, and he spent more
00:42:44
and more time with Jimmy alone or just completely by himself. By that point, he was dangerously close
00:42:50
to getting expelled from school because he had taken a teacher's checkbook from her desk and like threatened to use it
00:42:59
essentially. Like he was going to steal her checkbook. >> What? He also had been deemed, and this
00:43:03
is not a term obviously that we use anymore, but that's what they said back then. He had been deemed emotionally
00:43:08
handicapped by the school's district committee. Wow. They were like, "He cannot be helped." No. At the same time,
00:43:14
his parents were starting to look into other options for his education, but a lot of those would include him being
00:43:19
sent away essentially. Yeah. In reality, a school experience with educating kids
00:43:25
like him, like with behavioral issues and drug issues, probably could have helped him.
00:43:30
But every time his parents would arrange for an interview, he would run away or he would find ways to dodge the
00:43:35
appointment. Uh and at least they're trying. Yeah, it does seem like they tried.
00:43:40
I don't obviously nobody knows what was going on in that house, but from everything we do know, it seems like
00:43:45
they tried to get him help. In late March of 1983, they reached the end of their wits with Ricky, and they
00:43:51
went to the local police chief, Robert Howard, hoping that there was something the authorities could do to straighten
00:43:56
their kid out because they were desperate. >> Damn. So, Chief Howard, he was like,
00:44:00
"Yeah, of course I'll help you." And that month, Ricky was involuntarily admitted to South Oaks Hospital in
00:44:05
Amityville for treatment and observation. While he This is really sad and um trigger warning for suicide.
00:44:12
While he was at South Oaks, he tried to hang himself in the shower with a sweater, but he was discovered luckily
00:44:17
before any serious damage had been done. He also tried to run away at least five
00:44:22
times and had to be tracked down by the police and brought back to the hospital.
00:44:26
>> Wow. So, he was released from South Oaks in May, and for a short time, things at the
00:44:30
Kasso house were quiet. But by the end of the year, his resentment toward his parents and just frustrations in general
00:44:36
had returned, and so did his bad behavior. And this time, it seemed like he was even meaner than he had been
00:44:42
before. That's scary. In one instance, and this is just like it's so petty, but it's so mean.
00:44:48
He covered his arms in ketchup and yelled for his mom in to come into his bedroom and yelled at her, "Look what I
00:44:54
did." And for a minute, she believed that he had cut himself and was like bleeding profusely.
00:45:00
But when she realized it was only ketchup, he started laughing at her, and Lin just started gathering all his [ __ ]
00:45:06
and throwing it onto the front lawn, and she told him to get out. >> Honestly, like that's that's so [ __ ]
00:45:12
up. >> Yeah. And it's like That's wild. I don't It's >> imagine being in that position.
00:45:18
>> I can't imagine being in that position. I'm It's easy to look at it from here
00:45:21
and be like, "You should never throw your kid out when they're like 16, >> but I haven't lived that.
00:45:25
>> But we haven't lived that. We don't know what they were going through. And that
00:45:28
is emotionally traumatizing. >> So, at that point, she did kick him out. And he was like, "Okay, cool. See you."
00:45:35
And from that point forward, he basically just spent his time wandering the streets of Northport and couch
00:45:40
surfing. That's wild. >> Yeah. By early 1984, 17-year-old Ricky and whatever friends he had left could
00:45:46
usually be found hanging out at the various cemeteries around Northport. The cemeteries were usually empty, and there
00:45:52
was also several crypts and obscured areas, so they could use drugs without being caught or they could crash there
00:45:58
if like Ricky, they didn't have any home to go back to. Damn. And like they kind
00:46:02
of had shelter, which is awful. >> In a mausoleum and a crypt, but they did. Around this time, Ricky started to
00:46:09
spend a lot of time with 16-year-old stoner Randy uh Guthler. Like Ricky, Randy was like a local
00:46:16
misfit. He was a heavy drug user at 16 years old. And he spent most of his time getting high and causing trouble. In
00:46:22
October, so weird that you had mentioned this earlier, and you had no idea that this was coming. No. Randy broke into
00:46:29
one of the crypts and stole a skeletonized hand from a 54-year-old grave site. >> What the [ __ ] And this kid's 16 years
00:46:37
old. Holy [ __ ] >> the hand in a brown paper bag and just loved took any chance he could to show
00:46:44
it off to the other kids and like horrify them. What the [ __ ] A few weeks after he had
00:46:51
he had just taken the hand from the site, he went back with Ricky to the cemetery where they stole the skull from
00:46:57
the same grave site. What? This poor person. >> of straight-up douchebags. This person
00:47:02
had been laying to in rest for 54 years. >> Then these [ __ ] teenagers come and
00:47:07
just pick apart his body. Jesus Christ. >> Exactly. So, the police ended up getting
00:47:12
involved, and they took the case very seriously. And in April, Ricky and Randy were arrested and charged with violation
00:47:19
of a public health law. Which is so interesting. It's like I was saying earlier, like I think they have to be
00:47:23
kind of creative about charges for grave robbing. >> now they have better charges for it.
00:47:28
>> I think there's definitely better ones, but even still, like I think they could use some work.
00:47:32
Cuz I assume like desecration of a corpse and stuff should be Yeah. >> Definitely.
00:47:37
And I think even a grave, like disturbing a grave site is a uh charge. So, not one to pass up the opportunity
00:47:45
to defy authorities, when he was interviewed about the grave robbery, Ricky told detectives that he had
00:47:49
procured the remains for use in a satanic ritual. >> Oh, please. He's obviously just [ __ ]
00:47:55
with them. Like I don't think he's really He's just a kid. >> of a satanic ritual. No.
00:47:59
According to Detective Douglas Varney though, when he was arrested, he was carrying satanic material, the pentagram
00:48:05
and a list of hierarchy in hell, names given the devil such as Beelzebub, and a whole group of Latin names. Wow. I said,
00:48:13
"I'm sure." He's probably so legit. Definitely. >> Yeah. Like he's like 17. I'm not that
00:48:17
worried about it. I'm more worried about the fact that he's grave robbing and yeah, like actually doing it.
00:48:23
>> Yeah. The hand was confiscated by the police upon their arrest, and the following month, the skull was
00:48:27
discovered, and everything was put back. So, at the same time that Ricky was destroying his relationships and earning
00:48:35
a a reputation as one of Northport's most notorious Satanists, Gary Lauwers was on his own decline,
00:48:41
unfortunately. Once known among his friends as the type of guy that everybody liked, by 1984, he
00:48:47
had developed a somewhat serious drug habit himself, and he had started stealing in order to support the drug
00:48:53
habit. According to his friend Dan, Gary would do things for the moment. He wouldn't think about the next day, what
00:48:58
was going to happen to him. He totally [ __ ] somebody over and not think about the consequences of it.
00:49:03
>> Oh, not a good way to live. Because his front his frontal lobe is not developed
00:49:07
yet. Oh, you We're talking about all these people, and it's like You think they're like 30. And it's like you're
00:49:12
doing these serious, serious drugs, and you are stunting the [ __ ] out of yourself because your brain isn't even
00:49:17
finished growing yet. >> Well, and it's like hearing about all these people that it's like, "Oh, they
00:49:21
had a serious drug problem, and they were going through this." And you think you're talking about like a 30-year-old,
00:49:26
but you're talking about a 16-year-old, a 17-year-old. >> So sad. So, in the summer of 1983, Gary
00:49:31
stole some money from his parents, who eventually just didn't know what to do with him anymore, much like Ricky's
00:49:36
parents, and they kicked him out of the house. Just like Ricky, Gary managed to find
00:49:40
some places to stay. He kind of couch surfed. He also slept in various clubhouses around town, or he broke into
00:49:46
the lumber yard and would sleep in one of the few abandoned buildings on the property.
00:49:50
That's so sad. >> It really is. Like a 16-year-old just roaming around town. >> Yeah. It's just awful. A few years
00:49:57
earlier, Gary had started casually dealing drugs to support his own habit, and that's how he got to know Ricky,
00:50:02
Casso, and Jimmy Traiano. So, one night in April, Ricky and Gary happened to be at the same party
00:50:08
together, and Ricky had passed out after a night of drinking. While Ricky was unconscious, Gary went
00:50:14
through his jacket and stole 10 envelopes of PCP. >> Jesus. And then snuck out before Ricky
00:50:19
woke up. A few days later, Ricky and Jimmy tracked Gary down, and they said, "We know you did this."
00:50:25
And he admitted he did, but that he still had half of the envelopes, like he had five of the 10.
00:50:30
So, he gave back what was left, and he promised to pay Ricky back for what was missing, but they beat him up
00:50:35
regardless. He got a bloody nose, a black eye, and some cuts on his face. >> Damn. And according to his friend,
00:50:41
Michelle Devoe, Ricky told Gary if it happened again, he would kill him. Whoa. So, by that summer
00:50:47
>> serious. Very serious. By that summer, Ricky was mostly living in the woods, and he had what most
00:50:53
described as a serious addiction to PCP. >> he's living in the woods addicted to
00:50:58
PCP. Yeah, and he's like 17 years old. >> Holy [ __ ] Um I also PCP, it feeds paranoia.
00:51:05
Like people become insanely paranoid. Keep that in mind. He was regularly traveling to the Bronx
00:51:11
in order to buy PCP. Friend Johnny Howard said, "It got dark after he started doing all the angel dust, which
00:51:17
is PCP." He said, "You don't want to do anything like that when you're really depressed, because it's going to make it
00:51:22
worse. If you smoke a joint of angel dust and read the Satanic Bible, it will amplify the feelings you presently
00:51:27
have." Ooh. So, that was obviously bad, but if his addiction to PCP wasn't enough reason
00:51:34
for people to keep their distance, the recent reports of his grave robbing were. Yeah. He really only had a few
00:51:40
friends, if that, left, and they tried to keep him grounded in reality, but he just wasn't there.
00:51:47
>> So, he spent most of his time alone, and he spent a lot of that time fixated on
00:51:51
how he was going to get revenge against Gary for stealing from him. Oh boy. >> And his rage is only growing throughout
00:51:56
this whole period. Not good. So, on the night of June 19th, Gary and a small group of his friends were hanging out at
00:52:03
a gazebo in Cow Harbor Park. He had plans later that night to go to the movies with his new girlfriend,
00:52:08
Grace. But he also told friends that he was going to hang out with Ricky that night, because he really wanted to
00:52:13
repair their friendship. The plan seemed very strange to everybody who was there. They were like,
00:52:19
"Ricky wants revenge on you. Like I don't think you should go hang out with him. He's really pissed at you."
00:52:24
And he's pissed that you still haven't paid him back. So, they were like, "Don't go with him. Hang out with us.
00:52:29
Like stay here. We're concerned about this." But Gary allegedly told them, "It's okay, guys. I swear, it's fine."
00:52:35
So, shortly after that, Ricky and Jimmy arrived at the same park, where it was clear to everybody that they were
00:52:40
tripping on LSD. Once he spotted Ricky, Gary approached, and he handed Ricky $50 that he had owed
00:52:46
him for the drugs, for the stolen drugs. But to his surprise, Ricky was like, "No, I don't want the money." And
00:52:51
instead, he opened his hand and offered Gary some of the LSD that he had. Which obviously Gary accepted, and soon they
00:52:58
were all tripping, and they seemed to be getting along just fine. Mhm. At some point, Ricky, Jimmy, Gary, and another
00:53:05
friend, Albert, decided to go to like this makeshift campsite in the Northport woods to continue drinking and listening
00:53:11
to music and tripping. Nobody can be completely positive about what happened in the woods that night,
00:53:17
what the actual truth is, because all we have are accounts from the two people who were involved, or two of the people
00:53:22
involved. But according to Jimmy, Jimmy Traiano, they were all sitting around the fire, and he said, quote, "Ricky
00:53:29
kept telling Gary to donate some of his clothes to the fire." The [ __ ] >> Which is a weird [ __ ] way to put
00:53:34
that, and like weird thing to ask anybody to do. Desperate to be on good terms with the
00:53:39
group, though, Gary was just doing what Ricky said, and he started throwing pieces of his clothing into the fire.
00:53:44
Which also, remember, these kids are unhoused. Like they don't have a lot of clothes, so that's sad in and of itself.
00:53:52
A short time later, though, they started fighting, Gary and Ricky. Jimmy later told the police, "Suddenly, me and
00:53:57
Albert heard Gary say, 'I love you, Mom.' And when they looked to see what was happening, they saw Ricky stab Gary
00:54:04
in the back suddenly." >> The [ __ ] He said, "I love you, Mom." >> you, Mom." Ugh.
00:54:09
Gary tried This gets even worse. Gary tried to run away, but Ricky tackled him before he could get far. He then bit his
00:54:15
neck like it insanely hard, and started dragging him by the ankles back to the campsite.
00:54:22
>> He then just started stabbing Gary over and over in the back, screaming for him
00:54:26
to say, "Love you, Satan." What the [ __ ] Which like he's on drugs. >> Yeah. In response, Gary just kept
00:54:34
repeating, "I love my mom." Oh. Which ruins you. Before finally saying, allegedly, "I love you, Satan."
00:54:42
Holy [ __ ] >> Yeah. So, Ricky stabbed Gary Lauwers nearly 30 times in the face, back, and
00:54:50
eyes. >> Eyes? Eyes. Once he was dead, they searched his pockets, and they found his wallet,
00:54:58
which allegedly contained a list of the dignitaries in hell, and instructions on how to conduct a
00:55:03
Satanic ritual. Who knows if that's true. I doubt it. >> It was about 3:00 a.m. by that point,
00:55:09
and everybody wanted to get out of the woods. So, they covered Gary's body with dirt, leaves, and branches, and then
00:55:14
just started walking out of the woods. Like no big deal. >> Like nothing had ever happened. Like
00:55:18
they hadn't That Ricky hadn't just stabbed somebody 30 times, or more than 30 times.
00:55:24
>> Yeah. While Gary Lauwers' murder was brutal and completely shocking in and of
00:55:28
itself, what was even more shocking was that between the teenagers who committed
00:55:32
and witnessed the murders, and then those who heard about it, nobody really seemed to care that much or sympathize
00:55:38
in any way. >> That is so scary. The general apathy there is really scary. >> It absolutely is. Ricky obviously
00:55:45
couldn't help but brag to his friends about what he had done, cuz he's a piece of [ __ ] He told two friends, "I started
00:55:50
kicking Gary's ass for stealing from me. There was this crow flying overhead screeching. That was a sign from Satan.
00:55:56
He was ordering me to kill Gary. So, I pulled out my knife, and I stabbed him once before he ran away." And he even
00:56:02
went as far as taking other people into the woods to go see Gary's body to prove
00:56:07
that he had done it. >> Yeah. Holy [ __ ] In the days before the murder, Gary had apparently made a few
00:56:14
comments about leaving Northport. So, when he wasn't around all of the sudden, most people just assumed he had left
00:56:19
town. It wasn't until July 1st, almost 2 weeks later, that an anonymous call came into
00:56:25
the Northport police regarding Gary's murder. Before hanging up, the caller just said, "There's a body in the woods
00:56:31
behind Gunther's Tap Room." Whoa. To the officer on the receiving end, the caller sounded like a young woman, maybe
00:56:37
a teenager, and he thought it was probably a prank. And as far as he knew, there was nobody missing in Northport,
00:56:43
so seems like it was just a prank. That's one thing you should always do as a member of law enforcement, assume that
00:56:50
these things are prank. >> write it off. It really It works out most of the time.
00:56:53
>> Don't go out and check. >> Yeah, definitely don't. >> Mine Yeah. Why spend the resources, you
00:56:57
know? >> Yeah. Like dude. Yeah. My brother in Christ. >> Yeah. Go take a peek. Go Just go. Go
00:57:03
look. It could be a prank, but you know, check it out. >> Hey, whatever. Egg on your face, you
00:57:08
know? >> Exactly. You'd You'd rather be safe than sorry. >> that egg on your face.
00:57:12
So, things took a more concerning turn the next day, when the head nun at Madonna Heights School, which imagine
00:57:17
going to Madonna Heights School. >> I know. I was going to say something. >> Pretty rad, especially in the '80s.
00:57:23
>> Like I mean >> Height of Madonna. Can you imagine? >> Yeah. Back to the story.
00:57:27
The head nurse there, sister nun, excuse me, Sister Mary James, reached out to the Northport police to report that one
00:57:33
of her students, Jean Wells, had reported something shocking to one of the school counselors.
00:57:38
According to Sister James, Jean had gone to the counselor after coming home from a weekend in Northport, where
00:57:45
she learned that one of her friends, Gary, had been murdered and buried in the woods.
00:57:49
Officers went out to Gary's house, where his mother said that she hadn't seen him
00:57:52
for a few weeks, but that wasn't that unusual. Still, the officers asked that she and
00:57:58
Gary get in touch, and let them know as soon as she saw him. So, after leaving his house, the
00:58:03
officers paid a visit to Jean's house, and Jean explained that she had gone into Northport for the weekend to visit
00:58:09
her friend, Karen, whose boyfriend, Jimmy Traiano, >> Ah. had been in the woods the night that
00:58:14
Gary was killed. It was while all three of them were together that Jimmy casually mentioned Ricky Casso was
00:58:20
keeping a low profile, because he had killed Gary. And then, Jimmy offered to take Jean out
00:58:26
to the woods to see the body. What the >> So, they were all just being like, "You
00:58:30
want to go see?" "You want to go check it out?" >> to go check it out?" >> "Yeah, I can show you."
00:58:32
>> "Oh, okay, great." Like what the [ __ ] >> Like that is some cruel ass [ __ ]
00:58:37
>> Absolutely, it is. It's unhinged. >> Yeah. So, the casual way that Jimmy was talking and even laughing about the
00:58:44
entire situation made Jean wonder if he was telling the truth, and she explained
00:58:47
that to the officers. Detectives of Northport were still skeptical of Jean's story. I'm like,
00:58:53
this poor girl is in emotional distress, Yeah. and she's like reaching out to anybody she can to be like, "I I'm
00:58:59
pretty sure this is true." >> for this body in the woods. Like that's She's begging you.
00:59:05
So, they waited until the next day >> Oh my god. Like you said, my brother in Christ.
00:59:11
What are you waiting for? >> Like when they got around to it, I guess. >> Jesus. And they went out to the area
00:59:15
known as the Estique Woods, but it didn't take long for them to find exactly what they were looking for.
00:59:20
About 100 yards from the opening to the path that led into the woods, detectives
00:59:24
Roemer and McCready found one of the cadaver dogs pulling on something buried in the dirt.
00:59:29
>> say. And when When got close enough to pull the dog away, they discovered the
00:59:32
dog had been chewing on a bloody piece of human scalp. Holy [ __ ] Yeah. Holy [ __ ] So, it had
00:59:41
rained heavily the night before. So, when technicians arrived at the scene, they didn't have to work very
00:59:47
hard to unearth Gary's remains from what was the very shallow grave that Jimmy and Ricky had buried him in. Honestly,
00:59:53
calling it a grave is a stretch. >> going to say cuz they just keep showing people his body as well.
00:59:57
>> They keep showing people his body and they hadn't really even dug a grave. They just covered him in about like an
01:00:01
inch of soil, leaves, and debris. Yeah. At first, investigators did believe that
01:00:06
Gary had been decapitated since his head had been separated from his body when he'd been buried a couple weeks earlier.
01:00:13
I think they later determined that it was just decomp. Ooh. But, the rest of his remains were equally battered and
01:00:18
brutalized and that indicated that whoever had killed Gary had been very angry at the time. Yeah.
01:00:25
So, it took some time, but eventually detectives managed to catch up with Ricky, Jimmy, and Albert on July 5th and
01:00:31
they were all arrested on suspicion of murder. Not surprisingly, Ricky was defiant and
01:00:36
basically refused to say anything. But, Jimmy barely hesitated before telling investigators
01:00:42
almost every last thing Holy [ __ ] >> to Gary. He said Gary had stolen the 10 packets
01:00:47
of PCP from Ricky a few weeks before the murder and on the night of June 19th while he was high, Ricky stabbed Gary to
01:00:53
death for it. >> Jesus. In his version of events, Jimmy let it slip that during their walk to
01:00:59
the woods, Albert quietly mentioned to him that Ricky was planning on killing Gary once they got there.
01:01:04
>> Holy [ __ ] So, it was just completely planned and known. That's what No one stepped in. Yeah, that's what they
01:01:09
thought. This came as a shock to detectives who assumed that Gary had just been killed in a fit of rage. But,
01:01:16
if what Jimmy was saying was true, that meant that Gary's murder was premeditated.
01:01:19
>> That's murder one, babe. >> And that changes everything. Now, in his description of the events,
01:01:24
Jimmy also mentioned that Ricky and some of the others in their squad, I guess, Mhm. had expressed some
01:01:30
interest in the occult and in Satanism. But, he was also fairly explicit that the murder was related to Gary having
01:01:36
stolen Ricky's drugs and that Ricky was also on drugs when Gary was killed. >> That's the thing. I believe this is a
01:01:41
very like grounded in a shitty reality kind of thing of like drugs. Yeah, it's all It all just leads back to drugs.
01:01:48
Because even if they're talking about Satanism, they're high on drugs. >> Exactly. So, it's all
01:01:52
drugs. >> they're hallucinating on drugs. >> Yeah. It all goes back to drugs like you
01:01:56
just said. >> as a judge people sitting here murdering people for Satan. >> for Satan. No.
01:02:01
>> Yeah. But, still, Robert Don of the Northport Homicide Squad told reporters, "You've got a whole bunch a whole group
01:02:08
of Satan worshipers. This was a sacrificial killing. They built a roaring fire in a field near the woods.
01:02:14
I don't know what this is supposed to mean, but this is what they did. It's pure Satanism." Well, and that's and
01:02:19
just to be clear that like even if they were sober as a judge killing someone, that's equally as bad. I'm saying like
01:02:26
to to pin this on like, "Well, they're Satanists and that's the reason." It's like No, you don't have to do that. This
01:02:31
is as bad. They were all on drugs and they killed someone over drugs. Like it's it's It's bad even either way.
01:02:38
You don't need to add in Satanism element to And that's That's exactly the point here is that why are you adding on
01:02:44
Satanism when this poor kid was nearly decapitated? He had been stabbed so many times.
01:02:48
>> a very stupid like for drugs. >> Mhm. Yeah. It's like you said. It It just doesn't
01:02:54
need the added layer. >> No. And it was It was to like glorify that. Not glorify this, but
01:03:02
>> Exactly. Exactly. So, in a press conference the next day, Assistant District Attorney William Kean
01:03:07
said, "They treated this living and breathing 17-year-old man as a sacrificial animal. They slaughtered and
01:03:13
mutilated him." Which is true. They did. He went on to describe the murder as nothing less than a sadistic, torturous,
01:03:19
sacrificial killing, a satanic ritual murder. I was like, "You had me until the very end." You're partially right
01:03:24
there. I was like, "Guys, it like that's not the point that matters." Yeah. Which
01:03:29
was wild because again, Jimmy just mentioned all the occult stuff in passing probably when he was like probed
01:03:34
about it. >> Yeah. And told them the the majority of this entire thing was over drugs.
01:03:39
>> Yeah. Not like not even the majority, just all of it was about drugs. >> All Ricky told the police was, "I
01:03:45
stabbed him. He got what he deserved." >> Yeah. Which is nuts. He literally stabbed him in the eyes. And to be that
01:03:51
callous. Yeah. I don't think that kid stood a chance. >> You start doing drugs when you're 10 and
01:03:57
you get into PCP by the time you're like 13, you're going to lose all that basic
01:04:02
empathy. Unfortunately. So, in the days after Ricky and Jimmy's arrests, adults and the press in Northport made a
01:04:09
huge deal of the supposed satanic aspect of the murder, apparently completely unaware of the contradictory statements
01:04:15
from Ricky's friends and associates. One friend told a reporter, "I doubt they really were into Satanism." And most of
01:04:21
the teenagers interviewed by the police and the press explained that Ricky had bragged about devil worship and occult
01:04:27
practices, but nobody really believed his interest was anything more than him just trying to get attention.
01:04:32
>> Which I feel like if he really was a devil worshiper or whatever the hell they're trying to say he is, he would be
01:04:39
doing that pretty quietly. I don't think he'd be running around doing If he's bragging about it and being like, "Ah,
01:04:44
raising the devil." and all that, he's doing it to get reactions. It's that's basic human behavior. Well, and
01:04:51
I'm obsessed with this comment. Chief Robert Howard, who was the first one to actually try to help Ricky when his
01:04:56
parents went to the authorities, he said, "It was a group of losers looking for something to make them special to
01:05:01
get attention. They got it." Yeah. I That attitude is so Red Foreman. >> Because it's so like he's literally
01:05:07
being like, "Yeah, we can sit here and sensationalize and pick hair and split hairs. It's just a bunch of [ __ ]
01:05:15
They were trying to make a name for themselves. They got mad over drugs and they killed another human being." Like
01:05:19
that's simplistic as that. >> lost in the minutiae. >> Shitty all the way around. So, on July
01:05:25
7th, Ricky Kasso hanged himself in his cell Holy [ __ ] and what the medical examiner listed obviously as an apparent
01:05:32
suicide. Given his confession and Jimmy Trion's, Ricky had reason to believe that and he
01:05:39
probably would have that if he was found guilty of murder and sent to prison, it
01:05:42
would be for a very long time. >> Yeah. The sheriff told the reporters he exhibited no undue stress and was
01:05:47
treated as any other inmate. And Ricky left no note explaining his actions. >> He wanted to get out of what he was
01:05:54
going to get into. I feel really bad for his parents. >> Yeah. And obviously for Gary's parents
01:05:58
as well. >> Yeah. All of these kids' parents. It's just like oh. Yeah. Uh >> And his sister, Wendy. Yeah. Who like he
01:06:06
was close to. That's got to be hard. >> It's awful. >> To watch that evolution happen. Yeah,
01:06:10
and to live in a house, too, that was probably so chaotic because of his drug use and behavioral issues. Like I think
01:06:17
she lost who her big brother was for very small amount of time in her life. >> Uh with Albert Quinones having been let
01:06:24
go without charges, he was just there that night. >> Yeah. Uh and Ricky dead, that left only
01:06:29
Jimmy Trion alone to face trial for Gary's death. He did go on trial in early April of 1985 and by then the
01:06:36
judge had ruled out any possibility that the murder was ritualistic or occult in
01:06:40
nature. Instead, Jimmy was just being tried as an accomplice in Gary's murder. The jury was told that Jimmy held Gary
01:06:48
while Ricky had stabbed him. Damn. The prosecution's entire case was based on the investigators' belief that Jimmy had
01:06:55
participated, however minimally, in the assault and that made him culpable for murder.
01:07:00
They said any statements made by Jimmy himself to the contrary couldn't be trusted given his character. Which you
01:07:05
can understand. >> Yeah. But, still, both Jimmy and Albert testified that Jimmy never restrained
01:07:09
Gary, never tried to prevent him from leaving the area, and the violence inflicted on Gary and the murder were
01:07:15
entirely Ricky's doing. Which is also very easy to do though when Ricky is no longer here to uh Absolutely. You You
01:07:23
can pin it all on him now. >> Absolutely. >> saying that's not what happened. It's
01:07:27
just It's like that's why I said it >> you second guess That's why I said it up the way I did like when we first started
01:07:32
talking about it. Unfortunately, I don't think we'll ever know the full truth of
01:07:35
that night. The only truth that we do know is that Gary was viciously murdered. We don't really know exactly
01:07:41
who did what. >> Yeah, like we know clearly Ricky was heavily >> Yeah, obviously he was there and I do
01:07:46
think he stabbed him, but who knows what other people's input was. After more than 10 hours of deliberation
01:07:53
though, the jury ultimately sided with the defense and Jimmy was acquitted of the charges and allowed to leave a free
01:07:58
man. All of the jurors refused to comment on what led them to an acquittal. All they
01:08:03
said was, "We all had a job to do and we did it well. It was a long deliberation
01:08:07
and therefore you can conclude it was well thought out." Okay. So, in his statement to the press,
01:08:13
Jimmy's lawyer Eric Nyberg was equally vague and just said, "There's proof of the defendant's guilt, but also
01:08:18
reasonable doubt. I don't think anybody but God knows what happened that night."
01:08:22
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I also think the people that were there know what happened that night. Yeah, exactly. But,
01:08:27
sure, just God. >> Yeah, for sure. Yeah. In November of 1984, before the trial had even been
01:08:32
scheduled, journalist David Breskin published an article called Kids in the Dark in Rolling Stone magazine. That's
01:08:39
spooky. It really is. More than simply just coverage of Gary's murder, the article was a very lengthy interview
01:08:45
between Breskin and several of the kids in and around Jimmy's circle. Interesting. Yeah. Unlike other national
01:08:51
press outlets who did obviously mention the satanic and occult interests, but mostly stuck to the drug story, Breskin
01:08:57
painted a picture of suburban teenagers gone wild, abusing some of the scariest drugs on the streets at that point, and
01:09:04
engaging in dark religious practices. So, the article poured gasoline on an already raging satanic panic fire. Mhm.
01:09:13
TM. And for a while, Ricky Kasso became the new face of Satanism in America. An ordinary kid who slid far too easily
01:09:20
into drug abuse, heavy metal music, and finally ritualistic murder. Unfortunately, and what's really
01:09:27
just it breaks my heart, the truth of Gary's murder has been completely forgotten. And
01:09:34
nobody will ever really know exactly what happened that night except like you said the three people that were there.
01:09:39
But obviously the salacious rumors of Satanism and the occult remain to this day and everybody gets a little too
01:09:46
focused on that. >> Yeah, and once they're put into a story, it's hard to take it out.
01:09:50
>> It is. >> Cuz there's always going to be people that you can throw the evidence right in
01:09:54
front of their face and they're going to say, "Nope. Satan." In my opinion, this was all drug fueled.
01:10:01
>> like it was very much drug fueled and I'm sure there was like Satan [ __ ] being
01:10:05
thrown about. >> Sure. They're teenage boys. >> more for uh shock value than anything
01:10:10
else. I don't think that they were I honestly don't think they were like capable of organizing actual like
01:10:17
religious practices here. I just don't see them like organizing, you know, ritualistic [ __ ] I think they just did
01:10:24
it to shock people and it worked. People gave them what they wanted. Nothing about the murder was ritualistic at all.
01:10:32
You know, like >> like a brutal murder that someone who is not completely in their right
01:10:38
mind would commit. Exactly. Yeah. Wow, that's really sad. It is a really sad one. Gary. Poor Gary. Poor Gary's
01:10:47
family. They the victim will get lost in these kind of things when it gets too focused on like the salacious like
01:10:53
Satanism [ __ ] and like, you know, ritualistic [ __ ] and all that. >> Yeah. Like Gary will get lost like more
01:11:00
and more as it goes. >> Exactly. No. And it's sad because obviously Gary was having some kind of
01:11:05
struggle. He was 16 years old and didn't live at home anymore. >> Yeah. And was addicted to drugs.
01:11:10
>> You look it up though, he looks like a baby. >> Yeah. >> so young. >> Yeah, it's awful.
01:11:14
>> really sad. >> All of these kids were so young and like living the hardest [ __ ] lives.
01:11:20
>> Yeah. It's awful. Mhm. And it's time for a fun fact. And I think it's your turn to find
01:11:26
a fun fact. >> I thought it was your turn. >> Is flipped in 1 minute is 140. Holy [ __ ]
01:11:33
>> That's a lot of [ __ ] pancakes. >> flip one. >> In a minute? I wonder what counts as a
01:11:38
successful flip. Mhm. You know? I mean, it's got to be like a full full flip around.
01:11:46
>> have like edges cur- like curled under or anything. It's got to be a full flip.
01:11:50
>> Yeah, that's what I would think. >> Holy [ __ ] 140. I mean, good for you, person who did that.
01:11:54
>> Oh yeah, let's look up who did that. That's pretty impressive. Of course it was an Australian. Australians do great
01:11:59
things. Australian celebrity chef Brad Jolly, who I don't know, flipped a pancake 140 times in a minute in Sydney,
01:12:07
Australia on February 21st, 2012 setting the world record for most tosses of a pancake in 1 minute.
01:12:13
>> I think Robert Irwin did it. Probs. >> Yeah. But also, are you flipping fre- like it that sounds like he's just
01:12:20
flipping the same pancake over and over. Oh. That feels No, if you're just flipping the same pancake
01:12:26
>> it. But that feels a little bit easier than flipping a fresh pancake. You know
01:12:31
what I mean? Like batter side over. Oh, cuz honestly, you really couldn't do it that way anyways cuz you when you flip a
01:12:37
pancake, you have to wait for it to bubble >> Oh. Yes, he flipped the same pancake 140
01:12:42
times. I mean again, I'm not saying I could do it. >> No, I'm definitely not saying that.
01:12:46
>> I couldn't I couldn't do it. We're going to try that tomorrow and we'll get back
01:12:49
to you. >> We'll try it. >> So we hope you keep listening. >> And we hope you >> keep it weird. But not so weird that you
01:12:55
don't have a contest with your friends and family about flipping pancakes. Yeah.
01:12:59
I want pancakes now. >> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music]
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