00:00:00
Hey weirdos. I'm Ash. >> And I'm Elena. >> And this is Morbin. [music] This is [music] morbid.
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>> I don't even know why I sang it. It just started happening and I went with it.
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>> Ash is scunty. Yeah, [laughter] >> I believe the word you're looking for >> is scanty.
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>> Guny. >> It's scary and country. [laughter] >> Me and Mikey have determined that she
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shall remain as such today. >> She opened. >> That was my diet coke [laughter] opening
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cuz that's a scunty behavior. She is in a place of scunt right [laughter] now. Serving skunt. Scunt. Scunt. Scum.
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[laughter] Truly. I really serving scum. >> We did magic this morning and I [laughter]
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>> We did. Why are you laughing? That's the truth. >> What? You just like I don't know. We
00:01:09
just did magic this morning. There's more to it. There's [laughter] more. There's more. We did magic this morning
00:01:16
and we did manifestations and I manifested >> love and light and abundance and I'm
00:01:24
feeling all of those things. >> She's feeling abundance. >> I think cuz mine went crazy.
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>> It did go crazy >> and I think it just reignited my scunty soul. >> It said, "Baby, party on, player."
00:01:38
>> I think it's supposed Is it astrologically there's some uh some [ __ ] happening? Chiron's in
00:01:43
retrograde. >> That exactly. >> I don't know if it's Chiron or Chiron. So, come at me, bro. [laughter] But
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>> is that good or is that bad? >> I think that's pretty bad. >> Oh, okay. That makes sense.
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>> Let me do a little goooo. Do a little goog. >> I need to get it under wraps. >> Do a little googy.
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>> Yeah, it just went into retrograde. >> Oh, I'll tell you what it means for you
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and your astrological sign. Not all of you, but Capricorns and Geminis. >> Yeah, let's go. accept the cookies
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because that's the only thing you're allowed to do in [laughter] life. >> I always accept cookies in reality.
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Yeah, obviously. So, considered an asteroid and a comet, Chiron Chiron begins its annual retrograde on July
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26th. It will take place as Chiron Chiron is positioned in the first zodiac sign of Aries, where it has been since
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2018, and it's going to last until the day after your birthday, Elena. >> Oh, day after your birthday, Elena.
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>> The day of your birthday, Elena. So for me, Chiron Chiron retrograde holds a mirror to the medicine within
00:02:44
you. Medicine for yourself, which when claimed becomes medicine for all like Chiron Chiron's mythological journey,
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retrograde is an invitation to step into the role of healer and observe how your
00:02:55
experiences and the gold you have gleaned from them are your offering to the world.
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>> I like it. >> I don't know if it resonates, but whatever. All you Geminis. >> Geminis.
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>> No. Capricorn. Chiron. Chiron is a doorway between the spiritual and the human. And for the last six years,
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Chiron Chiron. Six years. We've been doing the podcast for six years. Whoa. >> Hopefully that's I haven't read ahead so
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I don't know what this is. >> Has been cracking open the foundations of who you are so that you can remember
00:03:21
yourself as this doorway. This retrograde invites you deep within traveling with you down into your roots,
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formative years, and earlier memories. There is medicine here waiting for you. And I'm the medicine. Oh my goodness.
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Take a dose, [ __ ] [laughter] >> Just a spoonful of sugar. >> Also, just to say who I was reading that
00:03:40
from. [laughter] >> Oh, that would be if I was [laughter] >> I'm the medicine. Take a dose, [ __ ]
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>> There it is. [laughter] You found your housewives. Let's go. >> Thank you. >> I got t-shirts. Um, just to just to give
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credit where credit is due. That was from the yoga journal. Thanks, yoga journal.
00:04:02
>> You're welcome. So, all you Capricorns and Geminis out there, now you know that
00:04:07
one of you is the medicine and the other one needs it. So, [laughter] >> wait, what a beautiful
00:04:13
outside look glance at our relationship. >> I love that. >> Sometimes you're the medicine, though.
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>> I hope so. >> Sometimes. >> I don't always need the I [laughter] don't always need the medicine.
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>> You don't always need me. >> No, I'm I'm asking like I'm like, okay, good. I'm not the one that always needs
00:04:28
the medicine. >> No, that's good. Sometimes sometimes >> no >> a lot of the time all I need the
00:04:34
medicine. [laughter] >> Well, speaking of medicine >> and chaotic >> speaking of uh you know scientific
00:04:43
advancements in medicine, >> we're going to talk about the Radium Girls today. >> The Radium [clears throat] Girls.
00:04:49
>> Yes. So that see did you see that segue? We're talking about medicine and science
00:04:54
and chemical elements and [ __ ] you know, it's there. Uh, but we're gonna talk about the Radium Girls today,
00:05:00
everybody. Um, this is a little different. It's a different uh true crimey My tummyy's growling. I don't
00:05:08
know if anyone heard that. >> It's digesting the eggplant. >> It is. I had eggplant.
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>> Uh, but this is a little different case cuz it's not like >> is it like dark history sort of?
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>> Yeah, it's definitely, you know, most people would say a crime has occurred here.
00:05:25
You told me a couple things and it sure sounds like it, >> but a different kind. So, let's get into
00:05:29
it, shall we? So, we're going to start off first by kind of giving a brief, you know, look into what radium is because
00:05:39
without understanding radium, this isn't going to hit as hard. I mean, it's going to
00:05:44
hit, but you're going to be like, what the [ __ ] is that? >> Yeah. So in 1898 after spending years
00:05:50
researching the radioactive nature of mineral pitch blend of which uranium is a major element. Okay. Polish French
00:05:57
scientist you might have heard of her Marie Curi. >> Marie Curie. >> Madame Curie.
00:06:03
>> I thought that sounded familiar. >> And a hobby Pierre Pierre. >> Pierre Pierre.
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>> They concluded that the pitch blend contained at least two other previously undiscovered chemical elements. One of
00:06:15
these elements was radium. Now, a lot of elements on the periodic table are a are
00:06:22
freely occurring elements. Yes, radium is not one of those. Um, a freely occurring element is an element that is
00:06:29
not combined with or chemically bonded with other chemical elements. >> Okay. >> But radium instead is a byproduct
00:06:36
produced in the decay of uranium, another radioactive element. >> Oh, okay. That's interesting.
00:06:41
>> Yeah. See, so radium requires a very long process of isolation in order to be
00:06:47
extracted. Um, in fact, with the help of her laboratory assistant, Andre, I hope
00:06:52
I say this right, >> Debier. >> Debian De Madame Curie required several tons of pitch blend before she was able
00:07:02
to extract just one tenth of a gram of radium. >> Whoa. So, it is inc. It was incredibly
00:07:09
rare. So Curi's discovery of radium was notable for many reasons. One of the biggest was that it proved that there
00:07:16
were other elements in nature that were not even discovered yet. >> Yeah, that's like, "Holy [ __ ] we didn't
00:07:21
even know about this. >> How cool that a woman found it." >> She's a she's a badass.
00:07:24
>> Totally. >> Um, also the discovery of radium served as the foundation of Cur's work in
00:07:29
physics, which later she would get awarded a Nobel Prize in chemistry for. >> Wow. And in the years that followed, she
00:07:36
spent the majority of her career focused on isolating pure metallic radium, which
00:07:40
she achieved in 1910. >> That must have been a little bit scary for her. >> Oh yeah, she's a badass.
00:07:46
>> Yeah, >> she did all kinds of [ __ ] >> Uh the girls have like um one of those
00:07:50
little like who was books on on Marie Cury >> and they also have like an just like a
00:07:56
standalone book about Marie Cury actually. So Marie Cury correctly theorized that
00:08:02
among its potential uses, this new element she found could have important and honestly revolutionary applications
00:08:08
in medicine. >> Ah like >> that's my segue. Uh but the fact remained that it was really difficult
00:08:15
and super costly to isolate and extract. It's not like this was easy to do, >> right?
00:08:20
>> It was also true that although not as well established or understood, radium was seriously hazardous and very
00:08:27
difficult to handle. For instance, in 1901, this is crazy. In 1901, the cures gave a fellow scientist a tiny little
00:08:36
amount of radium to present at a conference in Paris. >> Mhm. >> And before leaving for France, this man
00:08:42
tucked it was in a little vial. >> Yeah. >> Like a glass vial. So he tucked that
00:08:46
vial into an interior pocket of his jacket. >> Exploded. >> It sealed. Didn't open up. But the next
00:08:54
time he undressed, he noticed a red mark on his stomach that appeared to be worsening in the hours and days that
00:09:00
followed. >> Oh no. >> And according to author Kate Moore, she said, quote, "It didn't get bigger, but
00:09:06
it seemed somehow to get deeper, as though his body was still exposed to the source of the wound, and the flame was
00:09:13
burning him still." >> Oh my god. So what that scientist didn't know at the time was that he was
00:09:17
experiencing a radiation burn from the tiny amount of radium in the vial that he and the curies believe was totally
00:09:25
safely stored in there. >> Wow. >> In fact, one of the other challenges of radium was that it has a relatively
00:09:30
short shelf life and begins to break down really quickly, which is no bueno. >> Yeah. because it releases alpha, beta,
00:09:38
and gamma radiation in the process, which is very damaging to living systems and tissue in unchecked amounts.
00:09:46
>> Okay? >> So, while the glass vial itself might have been safely tucked away in his
00:09:50
jacket, the element inside that vial was blasting out radiation waves directly into his skin.
00:09:57
>> Oh my god. And probably like anybody that was even near him. >> Yeah. Other people could have been
00:10:02
exposed. >> Exposed. Yeah. >> In this and other cases of minor exposure. And that's minor exposure. Uh
00:10:08
the injury appears like a worsening burn, like it keeps getting worse. But the body will heal itself on its own
00:10:15
eventually when it's separated from the source. But in more severe cases or in cases of repeated exposure to this
00:10:21
radiation, you can be disfigured or you can die. >> Wow. Cuz as we'll see in the in this
00:10:28
case of the radium girls, >> if it gets inside of you, >> it just keeps pumping out radiation.
00:10:35
It's like it keeps getting lit and lit and lit. Like it doesn't heal. It won't allow your body to heal itself.
00:10:41
>> So like minor wounds won't heal themselves. >> Oh my god. >> You could get if you're if you ingest
00:10:46
this radium and you scratched your arm, >> it [clears throat] wouldn't heal. You'd
00:10:52
have an open wound >> forever >> and that would be it. What the [ __ ] So despite the dangerous and costly risks
00:10:58
associated with handling and extracting radium, it did seem like a huge thing of
00:11:03
value for a lot of different avenues. Like if we if they could get it under control, particularly in manufacturing
00:11:10
in its process of decay, the particles inside of it charge one of its phosphorous components, zinc, zinc
00:11:17
sulfide. And this causes what a lot of people know about radium, a green glow. >> Okay? phosphoresence kind of glow.
00:11:25
>> Yeah, >> because the glow is a natural part of the process of decay of radium. It
00:11:30
really it didn't need an external source of power to make that happen, which is like a really ideal source of light for
00:11:36
certain circumstances and environments. >> That being said, this luminescent glow
00:11:41
was pretty minimal and it continued to break down over time. So, it was limited with how it could be used. But
00:11:47
throughout the first decade of the 20th century, several extraction plants were established across the US to like
00:11:53
harness the power of radium. Wow. >> Cuz they were just like, "What is this?" Like, "What can we do with this?"
00:11:58
>> [ __ ] glows. Like, "What do we do with this?" >> Cool, >> bro. It glows. Like, we got this out.
00:12:04
>> This is wicked cool. Now, among those enthusiastic about the potential of radium was Dr. Sabin, I think it's Sabin
00:12:11
Arnold von Sashaki. Whoa. uh who was a chemical scientist who in 1915 developed luminescent paint. Oo
00:12:20
>> the paint seemed to be an ideal use for radium since it really didn't require
00:12:25
much radium to produce and it could be used to paint clock and watch faces, instrument panels, and other objects
00:12:31
that really required minimal light to be seen in the dark. But it could make certain things glow. So you could like
00:12:37
especially the clock faces like I if if you've seen him from like the 50s and stuff like a clock with like that green
00:12:44
glow. Yeah, that's that. >> Oh, okay. >> So that same year, Sashaki partnered with Dr. George Willis to establish the
00:12:52
Radium Luminous Materials Corporation, which it was aimed at radium extraction and the production of luminescent paint.
00:13:00
The next year the company was renamed the United States Radium Corporation and the mission was the scope of the mission
00:13:07
was narrowed to the production and application of the luminescent paint and factories were then opened in Newark and
00:13:14
Orange New Jersey. So all of a sudden radium is becoming a thing now. In the winter of 1917,
00:13:21
a young girl named Katherine Sha was like many of the girls who would come to work at US Radium. She was intelligent.
00:13:28
She was very enthusiastic and she was driven to achieve great things in her life.
00:13:33
>> Nice. >> At just 14 years old. >> Oh wow. >> She decided to act on a tip about jobs
00:13:38
in the paint application department of US Radium. So she quit her job at the department store she was working at,
00:13:44
walked into the plant manager's office, and convinced that man to hire her. >> Hell yeah, girl.
00:13:48
>> Which, like, what a badass. >> At 14 years old. Absolutely. >> Yeah. Throughout much of the 20th
00:13:53
century, factories and manufacturing jobs were honestly among the most reliable sources of employment for
00:13:59
working-class Americans of all ages really, particularly those with poor education or limited specialty skills.
00:14:06
>> Sure. >> Still, the work tended to be like tedious, kind of menial, dangerous. So,
00:14:11
the jobs were not very coveted. They were just things like everybody can do this. The painting jobs at US Radium on
00:14:18
the other hand seemed to offer something a little more exciting than the typical
00:14:23
factory assembly line job. >> Um, so what Katherine had said was the work was interesting and of a far higher
00:14:30
type than the usual factory job because unlike factory floors which were like dirty, loud, dangerous, just like not
00:14:37
where you want to be, >> the application rooms at US Radium were referred to as a studio.
00:14:43
>> Oo, where talent Yeah. like it. They really knew how to market these jobs. And this was where talented young women
00:14:50
with a steady hand in creativity, they worked with an exciting new product called luminescent paint. And at a time
00:14:57
when it was being touted as quote a wonder element radium, and selling for $120,000
00:15:04
per gram, which is roughly $3 million in 2024. >> Blink blink blink blink. >> The opportunity to work with Radium was
00:15:12
very thrilling. Absolutely. very exciting, very like oh my good like glamorous even,
00:15:18
>> especially those who would never have access to it otherwise. >> And honestly, they got like I think they
00:15:23
got something like three times the amount they would get in a normal factory like very well paid
00:15:29
>> and it was just like known and I think they hired a certain they wanted a certain look for these factory work. So
00:15:35
they really went for like the whole vibe of this whole thing. >> This is so interesting.
00:15:40
>> Very interesting. The job was simple enough at its core. Okay. >> The preprinted paper clock, watch, and
00:15:46
instrument dials came in, and they came in in like a large stack, and each girl would work as quickly as they could to
00:15:53
apply the luminescent paint to the letters and numbers on the dial, giving them that glow that we know.
00:16:00
>> But for girls like Katherine Sha, the girl was the job was so much more than just, you know, tracing lines on a paper
00:16:06
as fast as she could. In addition to applying the paint, each dial painter was responsible for mixing her own
00:16:13
paint, which meant adding a small amount of the radium powder to water and gum adhesive to create the glowing paint
00:16:20
that was marketed as undark. >> Okay. >> Which I'm like, who came up with that name?
00:16:26
>> Undark. >> Cuz they're like, it glows. So, it's not dark. Let's >> Which means you're making it undark.
00:16:32
Like, okay. As they worked though, the radium powder got everywhere. It covered the studio and it covered the painters
00:16:41
in a fine coating of what they thought was this fancy [ __ ] powder. >> Oh god. >> That's it's rare. It's this wonder
00:16:51
element and I'm covered in it, you know, like and it's just like And it's not dirty. It makes you glow.
00:16:56
>> Yeah. >> Like it's it's got a luminescence to it. You almost look like you're sparkling.
00:17:00
It's like what we would use like highlighter for now. >> Exactly. It's got that like vibe to it.
00:17:05
So, I think it it had this whole mystique that they were definitely feeding into.
00:17:09
>> Mhm. >> Now, the work of a dial painter wasn't just a matter of chemistry and honestly
00:17:14
speed because they wanted them to do it as fast as they could. It also required a little bit of skill and a lot of
00:17:20
creativity because the products created by US Radium from wrist watches, instrument panels, you know, clocks for
00:17:27
the wall, they were really small. these little elements that they had to paint. And often they had these like tiny
00:17:33
little details, but these tiny details were really critical to their operation and if they were going to be used or
00:17:40
not. Like for example, the smallest pocket watches that they produced measured just 3 and 1/2 cm across the
00:17:46
face. >> Wow. >> And the like so the tiny tiny little like millimeter things they had to
00:17:53
paint, they couldn't just like swipe it over it. They had to like trace the thing. So to ensure accuracy, dial
00:18:00
painters worked with really tiny brushes. They were like camel hair brushes and they had to be capable of
00:18:07
doing the finest details. So one painter said, "I had never seen a brush as fine
00:18:12
as that." I would say it possibly had about 30 hairs in it. It was exceptionally fine.
00:18:16
>> Wow. >> Because the consequences of an error could be very costly to the company. You
00:18:22
know, accuracy and consistency in these little tiny details was very, very, very
00:18:27
important. The brushes were delicate and slim for sure, as we hear, but the bristles would like spread out after a
00:18:34
while, like any brush, you know, they just get worn, >> especially when you're working quickly,
00:18:38
I'm sure. >> Exactly. Cuz you're really doing this as fast as you can. That was going to make
00:18:42
mistakes happen. So what Shab said was, "We put the brushes in our mouths because that was a technique they had
00:18:50
made up called lip pointing." And it was passed down from the earliest dial painters who were themselves hired away
00:18:58
from their previous jobs as painters of China dolls. So they were they could do those fine details. Lip pointing was
00:19:05
when the painter would wet the bristles of the brush with their lips or their tongue.
00:19:09
>> Oh god. pressing those bristles together to make that fine tip like we would with
00:19:14
like a regular brush, you know, like you just to get it really thin, >> not covered in radium.
00:19:20
>> No, the girls totally unbeknownst to them, while lip pointing was the standard practice in the US, it was not
00:19:27
that way in Europe. In fact, European manufacturers had completely abandoned brushes altogether because they ended up
00:19:36
using like implements that would hold that fine point so they wouldn't have to do that. Okay?
00:19:40
>> Like glass rods, sharpened sticks, even like metal needles. >> Always more advanced. And it didn't ever
00:19:46
cross the girl's mind that putting the brush covered in radioactive material in their mouths could be dangerous. Because
00:19:54
while the dial workers were hard at work in the factory, wealthy and elite people
00:19:59
all over the nation were saying how radium is the greatest discovery in the ages. Like they used it in glassware and
00:20:06
lingerie and toothpaste. Miracle cures were being made with it. Like >> it was being touted as like the [ __ ]
00:20:14
cure all. Like this is going to be the thing that changes everything. So why the [ __ ] wouldn't you think it's in
00:20:20
toothpaste? >> Oh my god. >> Why can't it be in my mouth? >> Even though it had literally like in a
00:20:25
contained small vial like burned that man. >> Yeah. >> That that they just didn't release that
00:20:31
information or a lot of this is sh Why? >> Yeah. One product actually marketed to
00:20:39
men at this time was a tonic that they said restored vitality to the elderly, making old men young.
00:20:46
>> I don't know about that, baby. >> So, if you can drink it as a tonic, >> oh my god.
00:20:51
>> Of course, you can quickly put a [ __ ] brush that's been dipped in it on your
00:20:55
lips for a second. Why wouldn't you? >> And from And the thing is they were being told by the people who own these
00:21:02
corporations and factories, it is completely safe. Great. >> Stick it in your mouth. It's fine. Put
00:21:08
it on your like whatever you like. This radium isn't going to hurt you. >> Oh god. It's beautiful. Look at it.
00:21:14
>> Yeah. Look, it glows. You You're sparkly. So, they were like, "Okay, why wouldn't they believe that?"
00:21:18
>> Yeah. No, totally. >> So, from the moment the Curies isolated and extracted radium from uranium, it
00:21:24
was apparent the element was dangerous and destructive. Like you just mentioned, it burned a guy's stomach
00:21:30
just being in a glass vial in his pocket. Y >> the problem it seems was a matter of
00:21:35
communication more than the actual knowledge that everyone had. >> So Georgetown radiation expert Timothy
00:21:42
Jorgensson said people knew that radioactivity released energy and they didn't see how adding some energy to
00:21:49
their bodies could possibly be harmful. >> Okay. >> They just weren't >> Yeah. science wasn't that advanced yet
00:21:55
>> and they just weren't told that like this isn't the kind of energy you want to be adding to your body,
00:21:59
>> right? Like there's good energy and bad energy. >> Yeah. In fact, despite the price of
00:22:03
products containing radium, enthusiasm for the products seemed to be never ending. I mean, it had like boundless
00:22:10
potential to be everything. For example, advertisements for Ratithor, a health tonic, sold the elixir as a cure for the
00:22:18
living dead and perpetual sunshine. And it promised to cure everything from arthritis to gout. Wow. Yeah. So it was
00:22:28
like the thing and the public's understanding or probably better labeled and Dave said this which is very true uh
00:22:36
public misunderstanding. It was a it was a catastrophic misunderstanding by the public because of the people on
00:22:45
top. The people on top were causing this misunderstanding cuz they just wanted to
00:22:49
get [ __ ] going. Yeah. Exactly. uh the public's misunderstanding of radium seems probably like we're looking
00:22:56
at this today in 2024 goggles being like oh my god like why are you not understanding that radioactivity is bad
00:23:05
but in the early part of the 20th century when most people's education stopped after uh grammar school
00:23:11
scientific knowledge was pretty limited like you said >> and as is often the case today people
00:23:17
just keyed in on buzzwords and associated scientific discover discovery with human progress. And of course, it's
00:23:24
going to be unquestionably positive, right? Like we're all progressing, we're evolving, this is great technology. And
00:23:31
as a result, the public honestly rarely questioned, and we've seen this in a few
00:23:35
cases. >> They rarely questioned whether products containing radian radium was safe. And
00:23:41
they've done that throughout history. We've seen I mean, look at arsenic eaters. Like
00:23:45
>> there's all kinds of times when they're just being led to believe that this is
00:23:49
fine by all these companies pushing these products on people and it it's easy to go along with the flow and think
00:23:55
that you're being told the truth when and not questioning. >> That's why it's important to question
00:24:00
>> especially because something has a a seemingly desirable outcome. >> Exactly. That's exactly it. Now quite
00:24:07
the opposite. In fact, they developed a rabid enthusiasm for the fat of consuming radiumbased products whenever
00:24:13
possible. So, it really went the other way. And in the Radium Dial factories, where the dial painters were in literal
00:24:20
constant contact with the powder and paint, enthusiasm for radium was at an all-time high. In fact, some of the
00:24:27
girls actually liked consuming the small amounts of paint because they liked the
00:24:31
way it tasted. >> Oh, that's interesting. >> Yeah. Apparently, it tasted good. >> It's like pika.
00:24:36
>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Now, the problem, of course, was that radium was literally
00:24:42
anything but safe. It was everything unsafe. >> Quite the opposite. >> And although it did have promising
00:24:47
applications in medicine because we are able to harness very unsafe chemicals. >> Yeah.
00:24:54
>> When you know people know how to do that and make them safe, you know, like but
00:24:58
>> by itself, >> no, >> it wasn't, you know, it wasn't as a tonic or other health fad like they
00:25:05
wasn't being safe in those usages. Medicine, sure, you're going to figure out a way to make that safe. tonics,
00:25:12
health fads, [ __ ] all that [ __ ] like toothpastes and [ __ ] No, we're not getting it right there. And by the time
00:25:18
World War I was in full swing, the radium plants and their dial painters were working overtime to meet growing
00:25:25
demand for these clocks, watches, all this stuff. Yet, at the same time that these young women were inhaling and
00:25:32
consuming small amounts of radium, Marie Curi and her husband were beginning to understand the destructive power of the
00:25:38
element that they discovered. Oh man. >> And it was true that radium had the ability, which is I mean incredible. It
00:25:45
has the ability to destroy tumors and other cancerous growth. That's where we get radiation. Like that's
00:25:50
>> of course we look at it today and we say like >> where would we be, >> right?
00:25:54
>> You know, um but the more they worked with it, the more they began to recognize that its power to do that was
00:26:00
indiscriminate. It was just as likely to destroy healthy cells as it was to destroy health
00:26:06
unhealthy. So it's like >> this is not what we're looking for. >> We just need to harness it the correct
00:26:11
way and we have not and it's like now the whole world is just like eating this [ __ ] up.
00:26:17
>> So it wasn't just the curies who knew it either. The founder of US Radium Dr.
00:26:22
Sabin Arnold von Sashaki had also become very very familiar with the destructive
00:26:30
power of radium. >> How familiar? >> Yeah. According to author Kate Moore, who we will cite the sources in the
00:26:36
notes, of course, early in the company's history, radium had actually gotten into
00:26:41
Von Shashaki's left index finger. And she said, quote, "When he realized he hacked the tip of it off, saying it now
00:26:50
looked as though an animal had growed." What >> this was? Because according to Timothy
00:26:56
Jorgensson, radium behave behaves very much like calcium because the body is accustomed
00:27:04
to using calcium to build bone. It will recognize radium as a kind of calcium. And so it will absorb the radioactive
00:27:12
material into your bone and then it will just begin to decay your bone. >> What the [ __ ]
00:27:18
>> Because it mistakes it for calcium. So it takes regenerating and thinks it needs to like push it out to the rest of
00:27:24
your body to reabsorb >> wow >> calcium and that's why it just destroys >> because it just gets pumped out. That's
00:27:32
it's that's horrifying but it's also so fascinating. Exactly that your body can't tell the difference.
00:27:39
>> Isn't it wild? So yeah, like the body's so smart obviously and like there are miraculous
00:27:45
things that the body does, but then to >> to have something like that dangerous enter your system and to just be like,
00:27:51
"Oh, calcium." >> Yeah. >> Like body know. Let body know. But this is all to say within at least a few
00:27:58
years of founding his company, US Radium, Von Shashaki knew radiumbased paint was highly toxic and
00:28:06
extraordinarily dangerous. You just got so Boston extraordinarily. >> I don't know how to say that.
00:28:14
>> Extraordinarily >> extraordinarily great. >> Extraordinarily dangerous. But he kept
00:28:21
that little bit of knowledge from his employees. >> Oh, good. Eating the paint. >> [ __ ] up to say the very very least.
00:28:30
>> Yep. In fact, as soon as most painters were introduced to the lip pointing technique, most inquired as to whether
00:28:36
the paint was, you know, in any way harmful. That was everybody's first question.
00:28:41
>> They're like, "Cool that I do this or not." >> That cuz that's the thing, like it's not
00:28:45
that like these girls walked in there and were just like, "Chemicals? Sure, I'll just eat it." Like they they asked
00:28:52
the people in charge, >> the people who should be telling them whether these things are dangerous,
00:28:57
>> right? And these people, all their managers would say, "Go for it. >> It's completely safe."
00:29:05
>> Knowing how bad it was. >> Now, within a few years, many dial painters in the New Jersey factories had
00:29:12
actually become like local celebrities. Like, this was a glamorous >> Wow. >> Wow. That's so crazy.
00:29:17
>> Isn't that wild? Yes. >> Cuz unlike traditional factory workers, like I was saying before, they had kind
00:29:23
of a vibe they were going for. They had a look. They were young, attractive, and
00:29:27
those that earned a decent wage were often happy to spend at least some of that money to, you know, look good. They
00:29:32
were getting the latest fashion. So, they were they were always looked at as these glam Amazon that just like work in
00:29:38
this this studio painting with luminescent paint and they always come out cover, you know, like it was like
00:29:46
this whole vibe. And above all else, it was the radium itself that made these girls instantly recognizable as being
00:29:53
radium girls who worked in those in the factories. Yeah. Because during their hours spent in the studio, like we said
00:29:59
before, it was impossible to not get radium dust all over you, in your hair, on your clothes. So when they would
00:30:06
leave work for the day, they had an unmistakable neon glow. >> Stop it. >> So they would walk out of there as the
00:30:12
sun's going down and they're glowing. >> Literally. >> Yeah. Oh, >> a painter Edna BS said, "When I would go
00:30:20
home at night, my clothes clothing would shine in the dark. You could see where I
00:30:24
was, my hair, my face. The girls shone like the watches did in the dark room." >> Wow. So, like you just watched this like
00:30:31
line of beautiful young girls >> glowing >> come out glowing physically, legitimately in every sense of the word
00:30:40
glowing. >> Like that must have been like of course she wanted to just like idolize this
00:30:44
whole situation. And it just must seem so like otherworldly and like wild. >> Yes, it absolutely does like ethereal.
00:30:51
>> Yeah. Like some of the the young women and girls would wear clothing to work that they wanted to wear to the dance
00:30:58
later like on Fridays and they would do that so they would get the radium glow on that dress that they wanted to wear
00:31:05
and then later at the dance they would be [ __ ] glowing on the dance floor. >> So everybody's like who?
00:31:10
>> So everybody's like there's that radium girl and it's like they this was awesome. It was like a thing.
00:31:15
But not everyone was as enthusiastic about the job or the effects of working with the paint.
00:31:20
>> Okay. >> According to Moore, some found the paint made them sick. One woman even got sores
00:31:26
on her mouth after just a month of working there. >> Uhhuh. >> And within a few years, even those who
00:31:31
loved their jobs, like Katherine Chub, they started to notice that there were certain reactions that they were having
00:31:37
trouble explaining. After just a year in the studio, Katherine started getting really bad acne and went to go see a
00:31:44
doctor. And at first, the doctor was like, "Oh, you know, puberty. You were you're 15." So, the doctor was like,
00:31:50
"You know, you're 15 years old. It's probably puberty." >> Yeah. >> But then he ran some simple blood tests
00:31:56
just to make sure everything was on the up and up. And he noticed some uh pretty
00:31:59
unusual changes that he'd seen in other factory workers. And he said they were ones that had been exposed to high
00:32:06
levels of phosphorus. Okay. >> And as far as Catherine knew, she didn't work with or even near any phosphorus.
00:32:12
So the anomalies in the blood were just kind of like, "This is purple." >> That's weird. That's suspicious.
00:32:18
>> Neither Catherine nor any of the other girls knew it, but they were working in
00:32:24
very close proximity to phosphorus and it was beginning to affect them physically.
00:32:28
>> Oh god. >> This was part of the whole thing, >> right? >> The symptoms, but they weren't told
00:32:32
that. The symptoms of radiation poisoning were alarming to Catherine and her co-workers, but their minds were
00:32:38
then set at ease because Dr. Von Sashaki's partner, Dr. George Willis, told them there was nothing to worry
00:32:45
about. Don't worry about it. Has nothing to do with your job. >> Shut up. Stop going to the doctor.
00:32:49
>> Look over here. Shut up. >> As Moore pointed out, when one of the greatest radium authorities tells you
00:32:55
that there you have no need to worry, quite simply, you don't >> you don't worry. Yeah.
00:32:59
>> Yeah. In fact, Willis's reassurances were so comforting that the girls even began to laugh off the increasing
00:33:05
frequency of weird occurrences. Like they were just kind of like, "Whoa, this is so weird. Like,
00:33:11
can't have anything to do with this." >> Oh god. >> Including painter Grace Frier, who
00:33:16
recalled, quote, "Nasal discharges on my handkerchief used to be luminous in the
00:33:21
dark." >> What? >> Yeah. >> So, her boogers were shining. >> Boogers were shining.
00:33:26
>> Oh my god. Sometimes for fun or to make each other laugh, the girls would paint
00:33:31
their faces, their nails, and even their teeth >> with the radium paint. >> No. >> Mhm.
00:33:38
>> Oh my god. >> Yeah. Now, despite their employer's insistence that everything was on the up and up,
00:33:45
everything is entirely completely don't worry about it. >> Couldn't be safer. >> Could not be safer, the fact remains
00:33:52
that many people, painters, and ordinary citizens were continuing to get sick. Some, like the worker who complained of
00:33:58
the mouth sores after a mouth, >> Yeah. >> showed signs of radiation burns, while
00:34:04
others had more complicated problems because radiation burns, at least, you know, like that that scientist, when
00:34:10
you're taken away from the radiation, usually your body can heal itself. >> But others had more complicated problems
00:34:16
like bone deterioration. >> Some girls took their concerns straight to their regular doctors. But because
00:34:23
radiation poisoning and radiation burns were so uncommon, their symptoms and injuries were like mostly misdiagnosed
00:34:30
as other things. >> Others who went to their managers or company doctors were just ignored or
00:34:35
worse, they would just the company doctors or managers would just misdiagnose them with sexually
00:34:41
transmitted diseases. >> Are you kidding me? >> To smear the reputations of the women,
00:34:47
>> knowing full well what was actually happening. >> Yep. And they would do this to smear the
00:34:51
reputations of them to discourage them from disclosing their symptoms to anyone else because if you are being told by
00:34:58
your company doctor you have a sexually transmitted disease in the 1920s. >> Oh my god.
00:35:04
>> And you're he's going to be like go right ahead. Go talk to your doctor about it.
00:35:09
>> Like you're not going to tell anyone else. You're going to be you're being shamed at that point.
00:35:13
>> So [ __ ] evil. >> Yep. And given all the ways that the dial painters were exposed to radium, it
00:35:20
was uh dentists who usually heard about the first symptoms because remember a lot of that is going in the in the mouth
00:35:26
area. M >> beginning in the late 1910s, girls were showing up at their dentist's office
00:35:32
with complaints of tooth pain, loose teeth, ulcers were showing up, and in more extreme cases where the teeth had
00:35:40
to be pulled, dental surgeons started noticing that the sockets wouldn't heal. >> They would just stay an open wound and
00:35:48
not heal. And then they would become infected, >> right? Of course, it's your [ __ ]
00:35:52
mouth. >> And they were like, "What the [ __ ] is this?" And these symptoms caused by
00:35:56
exposure to radium and its tendency to decay bone matter were eventually lumped together into what was informally
00:36:03
referred to as radium jaw. You can Google radium jaw at your own risk. >> Is it horrible?
00:36:10
>> It's just very upsetting. >> I'm about to. >> So when the war ended in late 1918,
00:36:16
demand for radium dials decreased, like dramatic decrease, as did the need for so many dial painters. We didn't need as
00:36:24
many. Yeah. Mikey and Ash just looked it up. Oh my god. At the same time you had
00:36:29
a Yeah, that's the one. That's the one. >> Uhhuh. >> That's the one. Just a total jog on.
00:36:38
You both did the same gasp at the same time. >> We're both >> and I knew you both looked.
00:36:45
>> Yeah. >> Again, at your own risk. It's graphic and upsetting. It's so upsetting that
00:36:52
people knew how dangerous this was and they were like, "Yeah, go for it. Drink the tonic.
00:36:57
>> Yeah, just stick that brush in your mouth." >> Um, but yeah, so while there was still a
00:37:02
demand for luminescent watches as the war ended in 1918, um, that demand was not enough to keep
00:37:08
the hundreds of dial painters employed, like there was a lot of dial painters. So the companies including US Radium cut
00:37:15
back the workforce. >> Okay. >> Still used them though. And many of the painters who were then in their late
00:37:20
teens and early 20s chose to quit their jobs and get married and start families.
00:37:26
But this started a second wave of really scary symptoms now that these girls are
00:37:32
saying, "Well, I want to start a family." >> Right. >> Even before attempting to get pregnant
00:37:36
and have children, many of the painters had noticed that they had very strange changes to their menstrual cycles.
00:37:43
>> I Yeah. I Yep. And then when they began trying to get pregnant, they struggled
00:37:47
to conceive and eventually learned that they were sterile. >> Oh my god, how heartbreaking.
00:37:53
>> Yeah. And finally, many of the women who were able to conceive somehow were soon
00:37:59
absolutely heartbroken by still births, >> by miscarriages, and by quote deformities in body structure of their
00:38:08
babies. >> That's so [ __ ] >> The farreaching consequences of this are astronomical. Truly,
00:38:15
>> the first death came in 1922, but only after a long, and when I tell you excruciating, I mean excruciatingly
00:38:24
painful, illness by this person. >> Oh, no. >> A year earlier, 1921, in September,
00:38:30
former dial painter girl Molly Maja had visited her dentist and she had to have a tooth removed cuz she had pain.
00:38:38
>> Weeks later, however, she was still experiencing pain and that socket had not healed. weeks later. So, she went
00:38:45
back to the dentist who dis uh diagnosed her with pyoria, which is an inflammatory disease of the gums,
00:38:51
>> okay? >> And started treating her for that. Weeks later, however, it got worse and so had
00:38:57
her intense lower jaw pain. To everyone around her, it was very clear she was in
00:39:02
terrible pain as her teeth were literally slowly and visibly rotting in her jaw.
00:39:08
>> Oh god. >> For no reason at all, like that everybody could see. But the doctor
00:39:14
could not figure out why this was happening. >> That must have been so terrifying for
00:39:18
her to have like suddenly start experiencing that and then have your doctor have no [ __ ] idea why.
00:39:23
>> And no way to stop it. >> You're in intense pain all the time. >> And you're just this young girl, like so
00:39:30
young. As far as her dentist, Dr. Joseph Nef, could tell. He said it was almost like something was attacking her from
00:39:36
the inside, but he couldn't tell what. And >> whatever was affecting Molly's teeth
00:39:41
soon spread to her jaw and caused necrosis. >> Molly's teeth and jaw were literally
00:39:46
rotting. And in fact, at one point, and this is very graphic, just so you know, at at one point, the dentist literally
00:39:54
used his fingers to literally pull pieces of her jaw out because it just crumbled like dust in his hands.
00:40:06
>> I Yeah. Oh, >> like open wounds in her mouth. >> Oh my god. >> And he just essentially scooped her jaw
00:40:15
out with his hands unintentionally, but it just crumbled to dust. >> Feel your jaw. Like, feel how like thick
00:40:22
and dense your jaw is. >> I mean, your mandible is made to crush and to withstand some pressure.
00:40:28
>> Like, think about that. >> You're supposed to be able to like really gnaw down on things and use it as
00:40:34
like a >> And he just scooped it. It just turned to dust >> cuz that's what it does. It destroys the
00:40:41
cells >> and then you're just disfigured. >> Oh yeah. But beyond the unbearable physical pain she experienced, the rapid
00:40:49
decay of her mouth was accompanied also, and this is just so upsetting by a very
00:40:53
noticeable odor of literal decay. >> Yeah. Of flesh and bone. >> Think about like you have like a cavity
00:40:59
and you're like, "Oh, [ __ ] I got to brush my teeth extra." >> Yes. But hers is literally rotting on
00:41:04
the side of her face. Yeah, >> essentially. >> And then her gums, too. Everything.
00:41:09
>> So, she had this intense embarrassment that made her not want to be even around
00:41:13
people. >> And out of ideas, her dentist visited the radium plant and asked for the
00:41:19
ingredients in the compound, just hoping to clue in on her problem. But the managers at the plant were uncoop
00:41:25
cooperative and refused to provide any information about the paint to him. That's how you know. Pieces of absolute
00:41:31
[ __ ] those people >> and the situation continued to confound her doctor, her dentist, Dr. Nef, and
00:41:38
those with whom he was consulting. He was trying to get anybody to like he stopped at nothing to try to get some
00:41:44
answers here. Also, just to think that they were like, "Yeah, no, we're not going to tell you. If this is happening
00:41:48
to one girl, this is obviously going to happen to other people, too. Like, you're going to run into some [ __ ]
00:41:54
>> so you might as well shut down production >> and just be hon." >> Yeah. Like, call an LNL.
00:41:59
>> Yeah. So, Dr. Nef said whenever a portion of the affected bone was removed, instead of arresting the course
00:42:05
of necrosis, it speeded it up. By the fall of 1922, Molly's condition had worsened and her entire jaw having
00:42:14
largely disintegrated at this point was removed. >> Oh my. >> And they had to remove pieces of her
00:42:20
inner ear as well. >> And then it's like, can you even She probably couldn't even speak anymore.
00:42:24
>> Oh, and it gets worse. Again, I'm going to tell you this gets very, very graphic. Even more graphic. It was at
00:42:30
that time that doctors discovered whatever had affected Molly's teeth and jaw had now spread and was eating away
00:42:37
at her throat. >> Oh my god. So they were unable to stop this which is horrifying cuz they just
00:42:45
could once radiation once it's in there >> you can't do anything like it's it's happening.
00:42:51
>> So they weren't able to stop whatever was eating away at Molly at Molly's entire body at this point. And in
00:42:57
September, the disease slowly ate its way through her jugular vein. Oh my god. On September 12th, a little
00:43:07
past 5:00 p.m., Molly's jugular vein erupted. Because it had been eaten away, hemorrhaging blood so fast that her
00:43:17
sister, who was by her side while she was in bed, could do nothing but watch her bleed to death and choke on her own
00:43:25
blood. It was literally a river of blood pouring from her mouth and she just choked to death on her own blood.
00:43:32
>> It's literally like something in her own blood. >> Oh my god. >> Yeah. >> Like that is one of the most horrific
00:43:40
things I have ever heard. 100%. >> Just this young girl. Yeah. >> Her body just gets eaten by They're all
00:43:49
like in their early 20s, sometimes late teens. Like they're young. Oh my god. And yeah, and her poor family to watch
00:43:58
that happen. And her doctor, like obviously you're a doctor. You feel a responsibility to help somebody. And
00:44:03
this man did everything he could. >> Yeah. >> And just couldn't do anything. >> They just threw up roadblocks to him and
00:44:09
let Molly die. >> And at that point, no answers. >> Even if they had found out what was
00:44:14
causing it, I don't like how can you stop that? You can't. >> You You can't. Not that I love her. You
00:44:20
can't. Cuz that's the problem. Like I I had mentioned this before and we were shocked by it how like your body
00:44:25
mistakes radium for calcium. >> So it just keeps going. >> So because they're very I guess they're
00:44:30
chemically very similar. They can be mistaken by the you know your body but so when it tries to infuse that radium
00:44:38
into the bones like it does with calcium. Alpha particles are released by the radium and that infuses into your
00:44:44
bones and that's what those are the kind of things that cause all these awful things like cancer. Like many of these
00:44:50
girls, many of these young women's got like different kind of cancers later in life
00:44:55
>> and they all cause bones to disintegrate and rot and just it spreads like wildfire
00:45:00
>> and you can't stop it really. >> It's so scary how delicate the human body is.
00:45:06
>> And after Molly's funeral, the family spoke to Dr. enough to try to find out what happened, which is when they were
00:45:14
informed that although he had kept the diagnosis from her at the time, he hadn't told Molly. He said he was
00:45:20
diagnosing her with the only thing he knew to do and the only thing that he had been told could was the cause of
00:45:26
this, which was syphilis. >> I was thinking you were going to say that, >> but she did not
00:45:32
>> because that's what they would do. They would just label it something like that.
00:45:35
>> Right. The company as you can imagine was the US Radium was very excited to be
00:45:41
able to use that copout as C. It wasn't radium poisoning it was syphilis and it's not our fault.
00:45:50
>> Yeah. Wrong. >> When they know that that wasn't the real cause. >> No. >> Now to do that to her in death. Like are
00:45:57
you kidding me? And the worst thing is it's like they would have like a coroner's jury at this time where like
00:46:03
it was just like layman on a jury that would like all agree on the cause of you know what I mean like it wasn't well
00:46:09
done. So it's like >> not doctors or anything like that. >> Exactly. Which that does change luckily
00:46:13
but >> that's good. >> Now as Molly was dying in New Jersey, hundreds of girls in Ottawa, Illinois
00:46:19
started lining up for what were promised to be glamorous jobs as painters at the
00:46:24
Radium Dial Company. Like US Radium, the Radium Dial Company produced luminescent
00:46:29
clock and watch faces using the same lip pointing technique as the girls in New Jersey. And we It's not like we have
00:46:36
social media where everyone's going to blast out what the [ __ ] happening in New Jersey over here, right?
00:46:41
>> So now over in Illinois, they have no [ __ ] clue. >> Oh my god. Yeah. And despite the
00:46:46
employment's employment ads stated goal of hiring several girls 18 years or over, many of the painters at Radium
00:46:52
Dial were under 18, some as young as 11 years old. >> Oh my god. And to think what that's
00:46:58
going to do to an 11year-old. >> You have no chance at that point. >> None. >> Like the girls at US Radium, the new
00:47:05
painters at Radium Dial quickly became, you know, local celebrities in Ottawa, making the job and making Radium seem
00:47:13
very glamorous. Mhm. >> According to one local paper, the girls were the envy of the others in the
00:47:18
little Illinois town when they stepped out with their boyfriends at night, their dresses and hats and sometimes
00:47:23
even their hands and faces a glow with the phosphoresence of the luminous paint like that. Like that sounds awesome.
00:47:31
Like anybody would be like, "Holy [ __ ] I want to sparkle for my job." >> Yeah.
00:47:36
>> However, unlike US Radium, product and material waste didn't seem to be a priority at Radium Dial. Okay,
00:47:42
>> US radium is [ __ ] or was [ __ ] but radium uh radium dial worse didn't give
00:47:49
a [ __ ] about how dangerous this substance was. Um the girls frequently covered themselves in radium powder,
00:47:56
entertained each other with the paint during their lunch hours, and even took vials home with them here.
00:48:03
>> Yeah. Uh Darlene Halm, whose aunt worked at Radium Dial, told a reporter, "I can
00:48:08
remember my family talking about my aunt bringing home the little vials of Radium
00:48:12
Paint. They would go into their bedroom with the lights off and paint their fingernails, their eyelids, their lips,
00:48:17
and they'd laugh at each other because they glowed in the dark, >> right? At home,
00:48:21
>> like it's just entertaining." >> And then you think of they're affecting everybody at home, too, without even
00:48:26
knowing it. >> Yeah, exactly. Now, Holm's aunt, Peg Looney, was one of the first girls hired
00:48:31
as a painter at Radium Dial Company in 2020 20 uh 2022 1922 when they opened. And like so many of the others,
00:48:39
17-year-old Peg loved the job, found it so exciting and glamorous. Also, like the others, Peg's boss at Radium Dial
00:48:46
told her and all the other painters that the paint was completely safe, not harmful at all. Quite the opposite, in
00:48:52
fact. They she said quote they told the girls it would make them beautiful. Yeah. So they actually were encouraging
00:48:59
it. Um but within a few years it became clear that uh they were not being given the correct information. Within a few
00:49:07
years of taking the job, Peg Looney started having health problems that one would not typically associate with a
00:49:14
young woman barely out of her teens. >> Okay. >> Uh like many of the other painters, it
00:49:19
all started when Peg going to the dentist and having a tooth taken out. Oh no. >> The procedure was intended to relieve
00:49:25
some of the jaw pain that she had been rece I'm experiencing. >> But >> in the days and weeks after that, the
00:49:31
pain got worse. The extraction site still didn't heal. >> Things only got worse from there. And
00:49:36
soon after, her jaw pain became so bad and pieces of teeth and jawbone started falling out of her mouth regularly.
00:49:46
>> Oh my god. >> Yes. Like so many others, Peg's teeth and jaw problems soon spread to other
00:49:52
areas of her body. She became anemic. She couldn't walk due to crippling pain. Oh my god. Holmes said her fiance used
00:50:00
to pull her around the neighborhood in a wagon when she was too ill to walk. >> Oh.
00:50:04
>> And this is her in her early 20s. >> Yeah. >> One day in 1928, Peg collapsed at work
00:50:10
and the managers in Radium Dial made sure she was rushed to the company hospital.
00:50:14
>> I bet. In fact, Holmes said, "My grandparents and her siblings had no say about her going to the company hospital
00:50:21
and we were not allowed to visit." >> What the [ __ ] Just the fact that there was company hospitals is even
00:50:27
terrifying. >> Yeah. They were told she had dtheria and was quarantined. >> What?
00:50:33
>> Peg Looney died in the Radium Dial Hospital at just 24 years old. >> 24. And her parents didn't even get to
00:50:41
>> get to see her. And according to her niece, the radium dial company insisted that Peg be buried right away and
00:50:48
started making preparations. >> Yeah, I bet. But by then, the family was very suspicious that the company might
00:50:55
be trying to hide something. So, one of them, badasses that they are, they intervened and insisted the family be
00:51:02
allowed to give Peg a Catholic burial. >> Yeah. And the company relented and even
00:51:06
agreed to allow to have an autopsy performed in the presence of Looney's doctor.
00:51:12
But when the doctor arrived at the scheduled time, they said, "Oh, the autopsy's already been completed."
00:51:18
>> Oh, they didn't find anything. It was just ether. >> Oh, yeah. Totally. But yeah, for sure.
00:51:23
>> This is so [ __ ] shady as [ __ ] >> Big companies usually are. >> Yep. Peg was just the first of many
00:51:30
radium dial painters to become ill with mysterious illnesses, and the company just kept attempting to minimize them or
00:51:38
cover them up. In 1925, another painter, Katherine Donahghue, also started feeling sick and experiencing incredible
00:51:45
pain in her hip that actually caused a limp. >> And in 1931, Radium Dial fired Donahue
00:51:53
because, quote, "My limping was causing much talk." Uh she and she told a reporter that in 1938 her story was like
00:52:01
so many others. Her pain soon spread. Parts of her jaw started falling out of her [ __ ] head and she eventually
00:52:08
became bedridden and unable to walk. >> And the local doctor was unable to diagnose her illness. They just had no
00:52:14
idea what was going on but insisted that she did have some kind of radium poisoning, but nobody could prove it.
00:52:21
>> That's good though. That at least they were like, "Nope, you definitely do." >> Exactly. There were several more women
00:52:26
with teeth, bone, jaw issues. One woman's vertebrae disintegrated from radium incorporation into her bones
00:52:36
just turned to [ __ ] dust in her back and she collapsed. >> Her vertebrae >> her vertebrae turned to dust in her
00:52:46
body. Poof. [sighs] >> Oh my That's your whole ass spine being compromised by poof turning to dust.
00:52:56
>> And you'll never ever be the same after that. >> Now, back in New Jersey, the deaths of
00:53:02
Molly Maja and growing number of illnesses among the dial painters set off a wave of speculation that the cause
00:53:09
might be related to the radium paint finally. >> Yeah. A former painter, Kina Macdonald,
00:53:14
said, "Many of the girls I knew and had worked with in the plant began to die off alarmingly fast." And in response,
00:53:21
US Radium hired a Harvard trained physiologist consultant in 1924 to evaluate the situation
00:53:28
>> who know what's happening. >> Oh yeah, don't worry. They had a plan. uh when his report to management
00:53:34
contained um incredibly profoundly negative results and dire dire warnings, the company just issued a fake positive
00:53:42
report under the consultant's name >> and they submitted that. Are >> you kidding me?
00:53:47
>> Under that consultant's name. >> The lengths these [ __ ] were willing to go to to make a quick buck.
00:53:54
>> True pieces of absolute garbage. And they submitted that to the New Jersey Department of Labor under that
00:54:03
consultant's name, they just lied. He said that he said it was positive. >> No, that's not at all what I said.
00:54:08
>> Yeah. >> Despite US Radium's vast efforts to cover up the dangers posed by radium in
00:54:14
their plants, the consequences were becoming undeniable. Yes. Like they're not going to be able to cover this up
00:54:20
forever. >> Everyone is literally dying after they work at your factory or while working at
00:54:24
your factory. >> They're literally disintegrating. Like they're are disintegrating in front of
00:54:30
everybody. >> Oh god. When you actually say that and think about like you're not being
00:54:34
hyperbolic, people are disintegrating. >> They're rotting, decaying. >> Oh my god.
00:54:40
>> In 1925, a statistician with the Provincial Insurance Company started documenting the numer numerous illnesses
00:54:47
reported by employees with the company, including the many jaw and teeth infections reported in two dead and 12
00:54:53
living painters. A short time later, the county medical examiner, Dr. Harrison Martin, documented his quote, detection
00:55:01
of gamma rays from living dial painters and the exol exhalation of radon from their lungs. He took it upon himself,
00:55:09
actually, Dr. Martland, he took it upon himself to help prove that these young women were being poisoned by radium in
00:55:15
the paint that they were working with and that it was the cause of their suffering and eventual death. Wow. Dr.
00:55:21
Martlin was able to show that radium outside of the body is enough to burn obviously like we've seen and cause
00:55:27
harm, but when ingested into the body, it is so much worse because it will continue to create and give off
00:55:33
radiation essentially forever. >> Oh my god. >> It just keeps destroying the living
00:55:38
cells around it. It doesn't allow anything to heal. And he said this substance they were told was harmless
00:55:44
was now basically punching holes into their bones as they walked around. And let me tell you, the corporations tried
00:55:50
to discredit him, but he was relentless, even getting the coroner's jury system abolished to create a more knowledgeable
00:55:57
and credible basis for these women to plead their case in court. Eventually, >> before the year was over, there was
00:56:02
another death. This time, it was the sister of one of the US Radium dial painters whose sole contact with radium
00:56:09
was sharing a bed with her. That's it. >> Her sister? Are you serious? >> Sharing a bed with her and she died.
00:56:16
Nothing happened to the the sister who was working there. >> She was also going through it.
00:56:20
>> Oh. Oh my god. >> But just sharing a bed with her, she never had direct contact with radium.
00:56:25
>> Was enough to >> to kill her. Oh. [sighs] >> Due to the growing number of problems
00:56:29
with the staff and the decline in demand for the product. In 1926, US Radium ceased production and closed the plants
00:56:36
in New Jersey and moved their entire operation to New York. But by then, the damage had been done and it was becoming
00:56:43
unavoidable. The previous year, former dial painter Grace Frier was one of those who the medical examiner had
00:56:51
detected radiation in and connected that to her mysterious illnesses that were cropping up. And she wanted answers. She
00:56:58
wasn't going to stay quiet, >> not just for herself, but she said, but for her friends who had become ill and
00:57:03
sometimes died. >> Yeah. >> Dr. Harrison Martland had confirmed that their illnesses had something to do with
00:57:09
their jobs. But whether or not there was any negligence involved was something he
00:57:14
couldn't prove by himself. >> Right. Grace, on the other hand, had begun to suspect that her bosses at US
00:57:20
Radian had actually known a great deal more than they had let on and were going to great lengths to cover it up.
00:57:26
>> Oh yeah. In fact, when she was first informed that she was sick, Grace recalled a day early in her job at the
00:57:32
plant where Von Sashaki had explicitly told her not to put the brush in her mouth because it would make her sick.
00:57:41
>> Okay. >> So, for however long, totally fine. Everything's great. Don't worry about
00:57:47
it. Safe as can be. Nothing will happen to you. Stick it in there. It's fine. Blah blah blah. And then right as she
00:57:55
gets sick, he's like, "You shouldn't put that in your mouth." >> It's like, "Huh? Why has it been fine up
00:58:00
until this point, sir?" >> And she said, "If he knew there was danger in ingesting the radium dust and
00:58:05
paint, why had he allowed it to happen for so long?" >> Right? >> So, a few months later, Grace asked Von
00:58:11
Sashaki that very question. But aside from ashamedly muttering something about how he'd warned other members of the
00:58:18
corporation of the risk, he offered no explanation. Wow. >> So, she literally was like, "Why did you
00:58:25
let everybody do that if you've known that?" And he was like, "Oh, >> I tried to tell them
00:58:30
>> money, I think." But yeah, >> according to Kate Moore, Von Shashaki would later claim that he raised his
00:58:36
concerns to the board of directors and management, but quote was opposed by members of the corporation who had
00:58:42
charge of the personnel. >> Sure. >> So, no matter what way you shake it out, [ __ ]
00:58:47
>> Either way, you got a shitty company. For years, Grace Frier had been suffering from mysterious illnesses with
00:58:55
no cure and would certainly honestly most certainly die at a very young age because of them.
00:59:02
>> Absolutely. >> And now, after receiving confirmation that the illness was definitely a direct
00:59:06
result, not just of negligence, but of outright deceit and abuse on the part of her employer, she was [ __ ] pissed. So
00:59:15
over the course of the following year, she started talking with her friends and former co-workers and was like, "Let's
00:59:21
file a [ __ ] lawsuit against this [ __ ] company." >> Because again, it's not just negligence,
00:59:28
it's deceit and abuse. Like they did this intentionally. The problem was though that it was unclear whether New
00:59:34
Jersey labor laws would cover their damage claims since they had begun so many years earlier.
00:59:39
>> Wow. Also, while there was some evidence to suggest the company knew about the
00:59:43
risks, they would have to prove that in court, which wasn't going to be super easy.
00:59:48
>> That's tough. >> Regardless of the challenge that was ahead of them, Grace and the others
00:59:52
pressed the [ __ ] on. And after 2 years, they finally found a lawyer that was willing to take on the case.
00:59:58
>> Nice. >> In May 1927, Grace Frier filed a suit against US Radium, which she was joined
01:00:04
with four other former painters. Edna Husman, Katherine Sha, Kina McDonald, and Albina Larice. In their petition,
01:00:14
Frier and the other women asked for $125,000 in damages, >> which is like nothing considering what
01:00:19
they were going through. >> Exactly. But lawyers on behalf of US Radium argued that the statute of
01:00:24
limitations had long expired on their claim, which was true as the state's law was written.
01:00:30
>> It's like, dudes, you know what you did. You're a huge corporation with I'm sure
01:00:35
millions of [ __ ] dollars. Give these girls some money so that they can literally pay their medical bills.
01:00:40
>> Literally. >> Now, undeterred, the now referred to in the press as they this is when they got
01:00:48
the ter the uh name Radium Girls. >> Okay. So, the Radium Girls petitioned the New Jersey Supreme Court to expand
01:00:55
the statute of limitation for workplace negligent claims, arguing, quote, "The harmful effect of radioactive substances
01:01:02
on workers may set in from 1 to 18 years after exposure to that substance." >> Wow. It can take that long.
01:01:09
>> So, that's why that statute of limitations is [ __ ] So, by the time the court date arrived
01:01:15
in January 1928, two of the women had become bedridden. >> Oh. Grace was unable to walk and
01:01:21
required a back brace in order to sit up. >> She was one of the ones whose like vertebrae had like
01:01:27
>> basically disintegrated. And quote, "None could raise their arms to even take the oath."
01:01:33
>> None of them. >> That's how sick they were. None of them could even raise an arm like this.
01:01:37
>> Oh my god. Mhm. Under the circumstances, the court date was pushed back to April,
01:01:45
at which time a number of medical experts and scientists testified on behalf of Frier and the others,
01:01:51
explaining the effects of radiation on the body and how it had caused the specific illnesses in the five women
01:01:56
who'd brought the suit. Despite all this and despite the absolute urgency and the
01:02:01
fact that two of them are now bedridden and none of them can even raise their hand to take the oath like the their
01:02:07
health is frail [snorts] is not evenly deteriorating. >> Lawyers for US Radium successfully
01:02:16
petitioned to have the case postponed until September. You want to know why? >> Cuz they were hoping these
01:02:25
>> is everybody ready? Nope. You want you all I want everyone to hold on for this
01:02:30
answer. They wanted to postpone this case to September because quote several US Radium witnesses are vacationing in
01:02:40
Europe. That checks. So this these women are actively dying. Actively dying. and they want to move it
01:02:51
further out so that these [ __ ] pieces of [ __ ] can finish vacation vacationing
01:02:58
in Europe. We don't want we don't want to mess up their vacations >> who profited off all of the work that
01:03:05
these girls did >> and are now suffering from. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Wow. >> I'm so mad right now.
01:03:16
>> Oh my god. What? By then, the case of the Radium Girls had received a lot of national coverage, and the judge's
01:03:24
decision to postpone this case >> was met with public outrage. >> You Yeah. I mean, like,
01:03:32
>> yeah, people were No problem. I'll wait until you're done with your yacht. >> No problem.
01:03:36
>> Sounds good. >> Because people, the public had started to see these women, the five women, as
01:03:41
symbolic of the ways in which the working class were being exploited by corporations.
01:03:46
>> Yep. Not only that, but people are buying these products, these product justice here, right?
01:03:52
>> Given the interest in the story, Frier and the others used the opportunity to
01:03:56
plead their case to the public and granted interviews in which they told their stories.
01:04:01
>> Good. >> Frier told a reporter, "I have had 19 operations, but my doctors tell me there
01:04:07
is no hope." >> Oh my god. In each interview, Grace gave details about her illness and how the
01:04:12
negligence and recklessness of US Radium had affected her life and was going to end her life.
01:04:18
>> She said, "The worst part of the whole thing is that I don't dare do much with
01:04:22
my hands for fear of being scratched. The least scratch will not heals because of the radium. So, she can't even do
01:04:28
anything cuz she's so worried about getting a tiny scratch." >> Cuz then if that she's done
01:04:33
>> by late May, three more former painters had joined the suit. >> Good. Amazing. And we're now pushing to
01:04:39
have the trial moved up. Arguing that the plaintiffs might [ __ ] die before the case was called in September.
01:04:45
>> So sorry that you're busy on your [ __ ] European vacation. My literal life depends on this.
01:04:51
>> Just days later, Vice Chancellor John Bakis ruled that the statute of limitations was not applicable in this
01:04:57
case and the suit should be allowed to move forward quickly. >> Good. He said, "My own opinion is that
01:05:03
the statute of limitations did not run from the time the girls took this poison into their systems, but from the time of
01:05:08
the injury. And in my opinion, the statute of limitation does not apply until the period of injury ends." Great.
01:05:15
Which, like, hell yeah. Bakus' opinion didn't end with his opinions on the statute alone. He also addressed the
01:05:22
trial delay. Rather than continue waiting on the case, which would be likely held to previous standards, Bakis
01:05:29
suggested, "You know what, girlies? Why don't you drop this existing case? File a new one. File that new one that's
01:05:36
going to be held to the new [ __ ] >> So, file another one. Drop this. Like, get out of there." Among other things, a
01:05:42
new case would have been aided significantly by the information that had come to light during the review of
01:05:47
the statute of limitations, including the fact that managers at the US Radium Corporation had quote in setting up the
01:05:54
plea of the statute of limitations essentially confessed that they had been guilty of the wrongs of which the
01:06:01
defendants claimed. >> Yeah. >> Well, we're guilty. It's just that time's run out.
01:06:04
>> And now you can use this cuz guess what, baby? That statute of limitations doesn't exist anymore, but your
01:06:10
statements do. >> Yep. Still there. Still there. >> While the courts and lawyers for both
01:06:15
sides fought in court, the victims continued their campaign to keep the story in the press. They wanted people
01:06:20
to keep hearing about this. A few days after the limitations ruling was made, Katherine Sha made a surprising offer to
01:06:27
the doctors and scientists studying the effects of radium poisoning. Now, Grace Frier, I'll tell you the author. Don't
01:06:33
offer, don't worry. But Grace Frier had previously offered, she had offered her body for study after her death.
01:06:40
>> Wow. >> She had said, "When I die, you can take it to study for radiant poisoning." But
01:06:44
as one doctor put it, that we examine her body after death would not do so much for medical science as a living
01:06:51
specimen. >> Okay. >> They're like, "That's great. Like wonderful, like absolutely, but like
01:06:56
>> it's not going to do what we need it to do essentially." And given that, Catherine Shab offered herself as a
01:07:03
living specimen. >> What? >> Telling reporters, "I am willing with my fullest confidence in the doctors to
01:07:10
undergo experiments that may save the other girls." >> Wow. >> Catherine, >> I just got chilling. I just got chills.
01:07:18
>> Yeah. I'm I have goosebumps all the way up my arms. >> My legs have goosebumps even.
01:07:23
>> Catherine Shab. >> Wow. What an incredible human. Yeah. >> Even knowing what like what these
01:07:29
experiments could do to her, but if they were going to save one of her friends or
01:07:32
somebody who had gone through what she had. >> Exactly. >> That's amazing. >> Now, between Bakus' ruling in the
01:07:38
statute case and the ongoing and very much intensifying public support of the victims, officials from US Radium saw
01:07:46
that uh the wind was not blowing in their favor here and the odds were definitely not in their favor. The wind
01:07:51
was not blowing through the sails of their European sailboats no more. >> With just days to go before the start of
01:07:58
the new trial, lawyers for US Radium reached out to Grace and the other women with a settlement offer.
01:08:04
>> Yeah. How much? >> In exchange for dropping the lawsuit, they offered a $10,000 lumpsum payment
01:08:10
and $600 a year for the rest of their lives. To >> that I would say, suck my dick. Now that
01:08:16
like we just, you know, as Ash just said so eloquently, [laughter] the settlement was uh hardly what had
01:08:25
been asked for in the lawsuit. >> But given that none of them were likely to live much longer, which is very
01:08:31
upsetting, all five agreed it would be better to get some resolution than to die with no one being held accountable
01:08:37
>> and to spend the like the rest of their lives fighting this. >> Unfortunately, completely
01:08:42
understandable. By settling out of court, US Radium had no obligation to take responsibility for or even
01:08:48
acknowledge their role in any of this. >> Wow. >> Uh in response to the settlement, US
01:08:54
Radium's president, Clarence Lee, gave a statement to the press in which he said,
01:08:59
"We unfortunately gave work to a great many people who were physically unfit to procure employment in other lines of
01:09:06
industry. Cripples and persons similarly incapacitated were engaged. What was then considered an act of kindness on
01:09:13
our part has been turned against us. >> Are you [ __ ] joshing me, bro. >> Be so for real.
01:09:23
Be so >> Clarence [ __ ] for real. >> You got I just hit my microphone with anger. You got to tell me that karma got
01:09:30
one of these [ __ ] >> Clarence, that statement sent me into [ __ ] oblivion. Like I don't
01:09:37
>> we were nice enough to give you a job and you're annoyed because your jaw is falling off
01:09:42
>> cuz you're physically unfit to do it. And it's like joking. I >> Oh boy. Karma's going to get you.
01:09:51
>> Now by the mid 1930s all five of the Radium girls had died without hearing a single word of apology from the company
01:10:00
who' taken literally everything from them. >> Their lives. Not one [ __ ] breath of
01:10:08
an apology. >> Why? [ __ ] otter. >> Yeah. >> Are you joking? >> Not one breath of apology. That makes me
01:10:18
so [ __ ] angry. >> I need to know when they got shut down. I need to know. >> Well, the settlement in the US Radium
01:10:24
case turned out to be just the beginning. >> Oh, wow. >> And other suits followed around the
01:10:29
country. >> Good. In Ottawa, Illinois, Katherine Donaghhue and several other former
01:10:33
painters filed suit against the Radium Dial Company based in allegations very similar to the one in the New Jersey
01:10:39
case. And by then, the girls who were once known as local celebrities for their work with Radium Paint had become
01:10:45
known in the press as quote the Society of the Living Dead. >> Oh my god. >> And that was given to them that moniker
01:10:53
for their like deformities and illnesses. That's a quote. >> Wow. Like Grace Frier and the painters
01:11:00
from US Radium, Donahghue and the others in Illinois spent years looking for a lawyer to even take on the case before
01:11:07
they finally found someone to represent them. Ultimately, the women won, but it was at what Kate Moore, who we again we
01:11:15
will uh cite in the in the show notes, called quote great personal cost. At the time, Ottawa was a, you know, kind of
01:11:23
like a it's a company town is what it's called, which is a town built around a single company.
01:11:28
>> And few people were reluctant to take on or even question Radium Dial because a
01:11:34
lot of people still relate relied on them for their paycheck and their livingings.
01:11:38
>> And uh Morris said the town didn't really want to acknowledge what had happened. And there's evidence I've seen
01:11:43
in their letters that the radium girls that like the whistleblowers essentially that their neighbors, the clergy and
01:11:51
business people kind of shunned them. Wow. The clergy. Their [ __ ] church shunned them
01:11:59
because they spoke up about like dying from radium pain. >> That is so ass backwards.
01:12:05
>> Like what the [ __ ] Isn't there a whole bit in the Bible about community and
01:12:09
like love thy neighbor >> to me like that they could turn on them? >> Love thy corporation [ __ ] It's love
01:12:14
thy neighbor I think. >> Exactly. I think and even though they won their cases, the awards were
01:12:21
relatively small in the end with the company paying out $10,000 in total to the victims,
01:12:26
>> which is probably a nickel as far as >> nothing. For the victims of the radium
01:12:32
extraction plants around the country, the legal and financial victories were definitely small and most died truly
01:12:39
agonizing deaths in the few years that followed. But still, the truth about radium and the abuses of companies like
01:12:45
US Radium and Radium Dial had gotten out. They had they had gotten people to hear these things. And without them,
01:12:52
nobody would have known. In in Illinois, Congress passed the Occupational Disease
01:12:57
Act as a direct result of Donahghue and the others taking their story to the public. And New Jersey um occupational
01:13:05
sta safety standards were changed as a result of the Radium Girls. It was all because of them, including a provision
01:13:12
requiring all radium dial painters to be provided with complete protective gear.
01:13:17
And in 1949, Congress passed a bill making occupational disease like those experienced by the dial painters
01:13:24
something able to be compensated for and considerably extended the federal statute of limitations. Employees had to
01:13:31
file a claim. Good. >> All because of them. >> Wow. >> Despite all that the country had come to
01:13:36
learn about radium in the 1920s and 30s, radium paint was still used in manufacturing as late as 1960s. Shut the
01:13:44
[ __ ] up. albeit with far more safety precautions in place. But still, >> still,
01:13:49
>> according to the New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection, the number
01:13:53
of people harmed or killed by radium paint is unknown, but quote, "It is estimated that over several decades,
01:13:59
approximately 4,000 women around the country worked as dial painters." Now to this day, places like Orange, New
01:14:07
Jersey and Ottawa, Illinois struggle with the legacy of radium extraction plants like US Radium and Radium Dial.
01:14:14
Decades later, large sections of land on which the factories were sitting. >> Oh, I didn't even think of that.
01:14:20
>> They've been deemed super fund sites, which is a place where hazardous materials were carelessly produced or
01:14:26
stored or dumped. >> I didn't even think of that. Wow. >> I didn't either. And in many cases, the
01:14:31
toxins that were produced on super fun sites seep into the groundwater >> and contaminate other natural resources
01:14:39
which put residents at risk for cancer, other maladies. >> Who knows? >> Somebody get Aaron Brochovich up in
01:14:45
here. >> That's all I could think of. >> Oh my god. >> That's all I could think of.
01:14:48
>> I love that movie. >> I do too. For decades following their deaths, the story of the Radium Girls
01:14:53
has found its way back to the public eye many times over through like books, plays, other cultural productions. But
01:15:00
unfortunately, the companies responsible for those deaths were never truly held accountable.
01:15:06
>> [ __ ] >> And the contributions of the women themselves has vastly gone overlooked.
01:15:12
Yeah. In the long run, like if you really look at it. But finally, in the summer of 2021,
01:15:18
>> you're joking. >> Yeah. Senators in New Jersey, Connecticut, and Illinois put forth a
01:15:22
bill to formerly recognize the lives and sacrifices made by these women. >> Good.
01:15:27
>> New Jersey Senator Bob Bob Mendez told the press, "A century after the first Radium Girls started working in
01:15:34
factories in New Jersey, Connecticut, and Illinois, we stand today to recognize their plight and the
01:15:39
contributions of these courageous women to modern workplace standard safety standards." And Senator Richard
01:15:45
Blumenthal of Connecticut echoed that sentiment. He said, "This resolution honors the Radium Girls determined,
01:15:52
relentless fight for justice throughout the 20th century. After being deceived and misled about the risks of their to
01:15:58
their health and safety, hundreds of workers suffered mysterious health complications and even died. The Radium
01:16:05
Girls effort to hold corporations accountable for their callous, uncaring treatment of their employees paved the
01:16:10
way for future workplace safety standards, saving the lives of countless others. We honor their memory by
01:16:16
continuing to fight for the safety and rights of workers everywhere. That's incredible. And that is the story of the
01:16:23
Radium Girls. It's just so crazy that this is like I I had heard of this before, but only from you, I'm pretty
01:16:29
sure. Like that's something we should learn about in school. >> Absolut Like I didn't learn about them
01:16:34
in school. >> No. And I feel like we should. >> Yeah. >> That would make chemistry a whole lot
01:16:39
more interesting, let me tell you. >> That's what I'm saying. >> Wow. and just like the the sacrifice
01:16:45
that they made. >> It's it's an unbelievable story. Like >> it is >> cuz you just can't believe it was like
01:16:55
the the book that I referenced many times by Kate Moore is called The Radium Girls.
01:17:00
>> It's a phenomenal book. I highly suggest it. >> Go get it. [laughter] Like it's really
01:17:05
really fascinating. Yeah, we I think we have it up here actually somewhere. Um it's a phenomenal book. It's so sad.
01:17:12
Fascinating. >> There's a movie. Yeah, there is a a Radium Girls movie. >> I want to watch it now.
01:17:18
>> Um >> Yeah, I I'm telling you, the story is just the further you get into it, the
01:17:23
more it >> will anger you. It will make you sad. It'll make you like inspired by these
01:17:29
women. Like, it's it's got everything. It's all the pieces. >> Seriously. >> And the fact that these girls were like,
01:17:36
"Fuck no." Like Grace Fryer is like, "No." Katherine Shaw is like, "No." Like Donahghue, like they're all just like,
01:17:43
"Nope, you're not getting away with this. And even if we die >> because of it, we're going to make sure
01:17:49
that you can't do this to somebody else." >> Good for them. >> Like badasses. >> Wow. What a horrifying tale.
01:17:54
>> Truly a horri. And that's why I said I know this is like a different It's a >> It's still true crime.
01:18:00
Crime if I ever It's a crime for sure. It's just a different kind. I I like when we do like obviously I like all the
01:18:06
stuff that we do, but I love the dark history ones. I just they're >> dark history is my favorite thing to
01:18:12
read about. >> Yeah. And there's so much that has happened in this world that you don't
01:18:16
like that we don't know about or you don't learn in school that my god, I would have done better in school.
01:18:21
>> Yeah. I'm like, "Oh, okay. I'll apply myself to this." >> Oh, like this is fascinating and
01:18:25
horrifying all at once. But yeah, and I think um I want to say the last Radium girl when I was reading
01:18:34
about it, she died at which I was shocked by um I like one of the ones who was like in the factories was like 104.
01:18:41
>> Wa. >> Yeah. She lived like very long effects. >> Uh I'm not sure about her. It was back
01:18:47
in like I want to say like 2014 or something. >> It's crazy that like some people had
01:18:52
effects and some didn't. And then knowing that you worked in a in a plant like that and then watching women that
01:18:59
you worked with and then you're just sitting there I'm sure wondering when is this gonna happen to me?
01:19:03
>> Yeah. >> Like when is my tooth going to fall out and then it the rest is just done.
01:19:07
>> Like I I just saw um I on Tik Tok I saw Bunny there. >> We love Bunny >> which also she shouted us out on her Tik
01:19:16
Tok and I shot myself essentially. She was talking about how she they found like a small aneurysm
01:19:22
>> in her corateed artery and they don't think it is. >> But she described it and perfectly how I
01:19:28
think these girls must have felt. She she described it as walking around with a grenade in her head.
01:19:33
>> Yeah. And that's exactly I like that hit for me when I because I was reading this
01:19:38
at the same time and I was like these girls must have walked around seeing what's happening like you said to all
01:19:43
their co-workers and friends >> and feeling like they're walking around with a grenade inside of them that's
01:19:49
just going to when is it going to explode >> when is it going to happen? >> No, that's Oh my god.
01:19:54
>> Any kind of minor tooth pain, you're probably like, "Oh my god, like this is happening." Like anything.
01:19:59
>> You know, like when you when you hear about something and you're like, "Do I feel that?"
01:20:02
>> Yes. like like phantom pain. >> You hear about like an aneurysm or you hear about like a brain tumor and all of
01:20:07
a sudden you get a small headache or something and you're like, "Oh my god, is this that?"
01:20:12
>> Wow. >> It's a wild, Elena. Jesus. >> Thank you. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Well, we hope you keep listening
01:20:20
>> and we hope you >> keep it weird. But not so great that you employ a bunch of girls and tell them,
01:20:25
"Yeah, it's totally fine to [music] eat [ __ ] radium and nothing will happen to you." And then you know full well
01:20:30
that that actually is going to do something to them and you say, "Oh, I'm so sorry. [music] Um, I will totally
01:20:35
appear in the court case, but I just have to go on my yacht first." Suck a dick. Truly by [music] said eloquently
01:20:42
by Ash. [laughter] [music] >> [music] [music]