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Hey weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is [Music] Morbid. Hey, smorbid. It sounded like
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you said smorbid smorbid smorbid [ __ ] You can have s'more of morbid. [Laughter]
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Funny. We've just been roasting each other all day. I love the I was like, "You're so funny." We
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have been roasting each other all day. All week, really. And it's not just me roasting Ash. Ash is roasting me back.
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Guys, don't worry. Somebody come get her. She being mean. So, she being mean. Nothing has happened
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since the last time we recorded because the last time we recorded yesterday was yesterday. We um Yeah, I'm trying to
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think. Did it literally anything happened? What can we talk about, guys? What do you guys want to talk about?
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Raise your hand if you have something for the class. Uh we're coming up on our 666th episode and it's going to be a
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listener tales episode. Yes. which means we're going to dress up. And boy, do we
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have something. So, that's exciting. I ordered all the uh months of my costume today. That's fun. Me, too. And we got
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some good news yesterday for for the near future. Oh, yeah. Some some good good things.
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Not me being like, "What?" You're like, "What's she talking about?" I said, "What did we learn yesterday?" We
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learned some wonderful things. So, that there's, you know, I'm looking forward to that. Mhm. Oh, we watched um a very
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interesting movie on Scream. This is just a random thing to tell you guys because in case you haven't listened to
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Scream, what are you doing over here? Ash picked it. So good. And I think it's worth throwing it over here in case you
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in case you haven't been listening to Scream, you should. It's fun. Go listen to Scream. It's fun as hell. What are
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you doing? Caleb's a goddamn hoot. So, let's A hoot and a half even. He's a hoot and a half. A hoot and a half. And
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you know, we take suggestions for movies and we also pick our own. It's a lot of
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fun over there. We don't take it too seriously and neither will you. Nobody will, but it's really fun. So, go
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listen. But if you haven't yet and you're like, "What are you talking about?" Ash, her pick for the movie um
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last week was a movie called Hellbender. It was so fun. It is such a cool movie.
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I'm looking up the girl on Tik Tok who recommended it originally. It's Kate. It is Kate. Feral Pisces.
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Wow. Listen to you. just remembering the Tik Tok name cuz I too follow Kate on Tik Tok and we love a Feral Pisces. So,
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um that's her Tik Tok handle is Feral Pisces. She's great. Follow Yeah, cuz I was watching Yellow Jackets and then I
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follow Kate anyways. Yeah, just our friend Kate. Just our friend. Hey, anybody I follow on TikTok I'm like
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we're friends. Um and she recommended it. She was like it's very like similar vibes and it is. It's like like sort of
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similar. It's like got like folky horror vibes. That's the thing. I think it's got like the DNA of like that kind of
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vibe, you know, like it's it's a very unique story. Uhhuh. Uh the people who make it are like a family, so they have
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like a really unique story and um I think they're like the Adams family, literally. Their last name is Adams. And
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uh they're really good at what they do. I think they do a great job and I think they tell stories really differently and
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it's fun. There's another movie that um that they did. I can't remember. Where the devil roams, I think. Yeah, I think
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it is Where the Devil Ro that we're going to cover next week on screen. I'm excited for that. Yeah, I'm very excited
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about it. So, again, this is literally just us being like, "Hey, this is a cool thing that we thought we would pass on
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to you." So, if you're looking for like an interesting, really spooky, really cool movie, like something you've never
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seen before. Yeah. That's just going to make you go, "Huh, what the fuck?" afterwards, but like in the best way.
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Hellbender really beautiful in like a weird way. Beautifully shot. Beautifully shot and like weirdly a beautiful story.
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It is. Yeah. Like not but but yes. But yes at the end. So give it a shot. I just thought that was like a fun little
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little thing you guys. You know, we're always trying to tell cool stuff. I want to watch that movie again. I do too. It
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was great. But unfortunately we have to talk about this [ __ ] Stain. I know. But
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at least like I feel he gets apprehended in this part. Yeah. He's not going to he
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doesn't win in the end. So, there's that. I did look up like a couple things cuz I just needed to know for my own
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psyche last night. Well, you always have to see what they look like, too. Yes, that was a trip. That is a trip if you
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look him up. He looks very normal when he's younger. Like younger. Yeah. You can see why people got into his car or
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lended him a hand, but he came off almost cleancut. No, lit. Yeah, he did. You know, like he he very much was. It's
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actually interesting that they called him the hippie killer cuz he doesn't look like a hippie. So, he's called the
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hippie killer. I think not because he's the hippie in this scenario for killing hippies. He was also he while he had
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some hippie ideals, he also had disdain for hippies. Oh, okay. So, I think this is like a double-edged sword here.
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Interesting that he had disdain for hippies. Yeah, cuz like everything that you've described about his personality
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so far, like as far as, you know, like new age thinking and psychedelics, pretty hippiecoded. Yeah. He was very uh
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confused. I Yes, I would say. And what we'll see with Herbert Mullen, too, is he is mentally ill, obviously, but he is
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not insane. He knows what he's doing. Yeah. And he knows what he's doing. And we will see.
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Yeah. We will see instances where he covers up things or make sure he takes bullet casings or he's very he's he does
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not have diminished capacity in the sense that he doesn't know what he's doing is wrong. Yeah. So that you can
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you can hold on to that as like, [ __ ] this guy. Yeah. Um, but the last we talked about him, he had, you know, he
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had killed Mary Gilfoil, he had killed Lawrence White. Um, he had killed a literal priest in a confessional. Yep.
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And he is now wondering whether he is doing things correctly. That's quite a time to ponder that. It's he's wondering
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if he's, you know, if this is the mission he's supposed to be taking. And so he starts think and he's also
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thinking like, okay, I don't think I'm stopping an impending disaster from happening. So when we last left you, I
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said that he was also the voices in his head that he was that he said were in there included his father's voice at
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this point. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he was now considering whether he could find a
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more morally righteous way to continue this mission of his. Well, you've already killed three people, so it's a
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little too like there's no like turn back now. Well, and also like the mission is to sacrifice, so there's
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really no moral morally righteous way to do that. No. What he what he was thinking in January 1973 was that he
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could join the military. Oh. So he tried to convince his father to allow him to join the military and he submitted an
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application to the US Marine Corps. Okay. In Martin Mullen's mind, which is his father, the Marines would give his
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son some stability, some direction, help him grow out of whatever phase he was in. You know, it's not a phase dad. It's
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not a phase dad. But from Herbert Mullen's perspective, the military is kind of ideal for him because he could
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one make his father proud of him finally. Mhm. And he could also continue his what he saw as his important work,
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saving the world because he would be in an environment where killing wasn't just
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permissible, it was kind of expected. Yeah. So he figured that was like the way to make this better. Okay. Now,
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having talked to so many doctors in the previous 5 years or so, he had become really good, and I mentioned this in
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part one, at like anticipating what people wanted to hear, you know? So, like he could he knew how to work the
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system. He knew how to get out of stuff. So, the initial paperwork and interview
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phase flew right by. Like, he killed it. Damn. But when it came to the criminal record and drug history part of it, he
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couldn't talk his way out of that one. Yeah. Can't talk your way out of your own past. No. Uh his criminal record
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showed several interactions with law enforcement, many of which ended with hospitalization. And he was still
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actively using drugs, which was going to show up on drug tests. It usually does.
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So, in just a matter of weeks, his plan to turn his whole life around and manage
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his responsibilities, it all fell apart. Uh but although there was really only one person to blame for not being
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accepted into the military, he obviously wasn't going to blame himself. He wasn't
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going to accept his responsibility in this. Uh so this just became yet another paranoid delusion that the world was
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against him. You know, it wasn't his behavior that had caused him to be rejected. It was society's conspiracy to
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prevent him from the greatness that he was destined for. Totally. So he wasn't just disappointed with this. He was
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pissed. That's not great. Now, in Herbert Mullen's mind, it wasn't just the universe that was conspiring against
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him, but it was the drugs. The drugs were conspiring against him. Well, they had clouded his mind for
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years. And he blamed marijuana worst of all, which is wild work. That That's truly wild. Out of all the ones he's
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doing to blame the pot. I'm like, "Bro, you were doing LSD." Yeah. And even still, like that probably [ __ ] you up,
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but it wasn't totally all of the drugs fault. No. In his like wildly warped logic, he reasoned that smoking pot was
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what led him to make his bad choices. Okay. Okay. Yeah, it was it was the pot that was responsible for his bad
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relationship with his parents and most importantly it was what led to so many hospitalizations. It was totally that
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just the pot just that. Okay. So, but again like his rejection from the military, he couldn't take
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responsibility for his drug use over the years. It wasn't him who had decided to
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do this. Instead, he was like, I'm going to place the blame on the person who started me down this road in the first
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place. yourself. So, a little before 9:00 a.m. on the morning of January 25th, Kathy
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Francis was just barely awake, just starting her day when she heard not a knocking on her door, but like a
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tapping. Oh, I hate that. A very light tapping. And she wasn't expecting anyone. It was the morning, so she was
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like, "Excuse me, what?" So, that's [ __ ] sinister. She was not happy. So, she opened the door and she found a
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slightly disheveled Herbert Mullen standing in front of her. She kind of knew him. like she barely knew him, but
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she just kind of recognized him by sight essentially. So, she tried to be a little polite because like she was kind
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of like, "I think I know you." Yeah. He had actually come looking for Jim Giana who was the former occupant of
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this house and the guy who had first given Herbert Mullen his first joint back in high school.
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Okay. Yeah. Wow. Yep. How old is he at this point? like in his like early 20s. Yeah, early 20s. I couldn't [ __ ] tell
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you. Like mid 20s, I would say. I have no idea who gave me my first joint. And also, it's not that guy's fault. It's
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not that you took the joint. You smoked it. And that's not even the [ __ ] problem. It's not even the issue. Well,
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Kathy explained that Jim hadn't lived in the house for a few months and then gave
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him directions to Jim's new house cuz he thought he was a friend. Yeah, of course. She didn't do anything wrong.
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Kathy knew who he was like a little bit. So, not like a complete stranger. Yeah.
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And like she was like, "Oh, you're looking for your friend." He kind of made it seem like I'm looking for a
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friend. So like, "Okay." And she was like, "Oh, it's like a few blocks away. He lives in a different house." And then
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just closed the door and went back to bed. Now Herbert Mullen got back in his car and drove the seven miles to Jim and
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Joan Gianara's house on Western Drive. Jim and Joan Giana. I'm obsessed. Yeah. This couple had bought the house
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sometime earlier and had finally finished renovations and were able to move in a few months earlier.
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Unfortunately, since then, Jim had struggled to find work and they'd run out of money. Oh, no. So, that January,
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they'd been living without electricity. Oh, man. Yeah. Now, like Kathy Francis, Jim hadn't been expecting anyone that
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morning. So, the knock on the door was a little bit of a surprise. Um, it had been a while since the two of them had
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seen each other. They went to high school together and but Jim recognized Herbert Mullen immediately, but didn't
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invite him inside. And out of nowhere, Herbert just said, "I'm really pissed about the time I've been wasting." Okay.
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And Jim was like, "Sorry to hear that. Sorry. Sorry about that." Like I Okay. Like he was just confused. Like what?
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And before Jim could say anything back to him, cuz what the [ __ ] else? What was
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he going to say? The phone rang. And so he's like, "Excuse me, I just have to answer the phone really quick." Yeah.
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And he went in to answer the phone. And Herbert locked in the door and closed it
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behind him. Now, Jem hung up the phone and turned around and was like, "What the [ __ ] are you doing in my house? I
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didn't invite you in." Yeah, you can't just walk in here, dude. And he was about to yell at him to leave. And then
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he noticed the revolver in Herbert Mullen's hand, and he turned to run. And from behind, Jim heard a crack and a
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bullet grazed his right arm. Oh man. He made it to the kitchen, and he flung the
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refrigerator door open, hoping to shield himself, but another bullet struck him in the left elbow, shattering the bone.
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Oh [ __ ] Yeah. So, he grasped at the counter for a knife or anything he could use to defend himself, but he could
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didn't find anything. And instead, he just charged at Herb, who simply sidestepped and then turned and shot Jim
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again, this time hitting him in the back. Oh. And the bullet this time tore through his lung and sent him crashing
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into the stairs. Oh my god. So Jim struggles and gets himself up. Now his lung has been like shot. Like a bullet
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went through his lung. He gets himself up the stairs in order to warn his wife. Oh. He heard the crack of the gun again
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as he's trying to get up the stairs and the bullet struck the door jam above the
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door and like exploded the wood. Now Joan had been showering when Herb arrived and the noise of the water
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blocked out all the chaos downstairs. She didn't hear a lot of it. So when she opened the door and stepped into the
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hallway in a towel, she was shocked to see her husband now stumbling towards her. Blood was pouring from his left
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side and streaming out of his mouth. Oh my god. He managed to shove Joan back into the bathroom and slammed the door
00:14:54
and yelled at her to lock the door as he's bleeding to death. Yeah. And he like shoved his wife into the bathroom
00:15:01
to like protect her. Oh my god. And from inside the bathroom, Joan heard the gun
00:15:06
fire two more times. One bullet hit Jim in the stomach and the second went through his back and struck his heart
00:15:12
and killed him. Oh my god. And she's just standing in the bathroom having no idea what the [ __ ] is going on. No idea
00:15:18
who this man is now from inside the bathroom. So Herb could hear Joan hysterically sobbing from inside the
00:15:24
bathroom. Oh my god. And so he just broke down the door with his hands and feet. Just kicked open the door. Oh,
00:15:30
this is like a nightmare. Yeah. Once inside, he aimed the gun at Joan and fired three times quickly, hitting her
00:15:37
twice in the neck and once in the face just above her left eye. Oh my god. He was never fully confident that a gun was
00:15:47
sufficient for the purpose of sacrifice. So he decided to take out his hunting knife that he had with him, too, and
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stabbed Joan in the back three times. Once for each bullet. But didn't do that to the husband. No.
00:16:01
What? He then collected the shell cases from the bathroom floor. Yep. And from the hallway and then proceeded
00:16:10
downstairs to collect the rest of them. And he stuck the gun back into his waistband and then he noticed that a
00:16:15
button from his coat was missing. But he was like, "Ah, whatever." And he just left the house. Good. Now, back at the
00:16:22
Francis house, remember Kathy, who originally opened the door? I would like to give a quick trigger warning. Uh,
00:16:27
this part is very upsetting. Oh, no. Um, back at the Francis house, her two children had woken up and Kathy was
00:16:36
doing her best to get 9-year-old David and fouryear-old Damon ready for the day. Yeah. 9-year-old Damon had had a
00:16:43
cold the last few days and he looked like he was going to be staying home from school one more day. So, she went
00:16:48
out into the yard and found some kindling to get the fire started in the stove. She had just put down some
00:16:54
breakfast for the boys when she heard a knock at the front door. Oh. When she opened it, she was looking down the
00:17:00
barrel of Herbert Mullen's gun. Oh my god. Kathy didn't even have time to say a word before Herb fired the gun and hit
00:17:07
her straight in the head. Killed her immediately. He stepped over her and he entered and closed the door behind him
00:17:15
and he thought he was going to find a husband or a boyfriend in the house and he realized that he heard voices but
00:17:22
they were children's voices. So, um, just to just to be clear, remember before he was saying that he was
00:17:29
considering like how morally wrong this felt and he wanted to find a morally righteous way of doing this. Um, I don't
00:17:38
know what happened here. He didn't stop to think about, you know, the moral implications of killing children here
00:17:43
because he simply raised the gun and fired twice and hit both of them in the head, killing them instantly. Oh my god.
00:17:49
Then he walked around and stabbed each of them with the hunting knife to make sure that he had properly sacrificed
00:17:54
them. And he also has like no matter what this is so [ __ ] but he has no idea who this even is. No. So that's not
00:18:01
It's still not fitting the the narrative that he's trying to No. Like create. Yeah. What? Mhm. A 9-year-old and a
00:18:10
four-year-old. A four-year-old and their mother. A nineyear-old. Oh my god. Yeah. Now, unlike the three previous
00:18:16
victims who had yet to be linked, investigators immediately suspected the Gianireas and the Francises had been
00:18:23
killed by the same person because there was a personal connection between the victims and similar circumstances under
00:18:29
which they had been killed. Yeah. The scenes of both murders were remarkably sparse when it came to evidence. And in
00:18:35
at least one of them, the Francis House, there looked like there was no struggle
00:18:39
because there wasn't. He had just shot her in the face and then killed her two small children, right? They did however
00:18:45
note that the person connecting the families, Robert Francis, was unaccounted for and hadn't been seen in
00:18:51
at least two days. Okay. In a press release the following day, Sheriff Doug James stated, "There appear to be drug
00:18:58
overtones in the case. And when they did finally locate Robert Francis, he was ruled out immediately as a suspect."
00:19:03
Yeah. Now, not wanting to cause panic, Santa Cruz police captain Dick Overton urged residents to quote unquote keep
00:19:11
cool. Stay cool, man. Babe, just stay cool. Don't be all like uncool, babe. And they
00:19:19
and he said, "Just go about your daily lives as normal." Cool. Two families have been slaughtered, but like, yeah,
00:19:25
keep it chill, man. And also, he said, "This is not a case of somebody running a muck and shooting people." That's
00:19:32
actually exactly what this is. This thing has a pattern to it. It's not a case of some crazy man running around
00:19:37
shooting people. No, it's that's literally exactly what it is, sir. And what basis do you have to tell
00:19:41
otherwise? So, since the murders of the OT family two years earlier, we talked about them in uh part one. Yeah. And the
00:19:48
recent disappearances of a local a number of local college girls keer Santa Cruz residents had
00:19:55
started arming themselves. I would which Overton knew increased the potential for
00:20:00
an accidental shooting to happen. But while his desire to avoid, you know, like panicking the public and having
00:20:08
some accidents happen that could have some real con consequences, he was very wrong because this was one of the rare
00:20:15
incidences of someone quote running a muck and shooting people at random. This literally was. Now, the more time that
00:20:22
passed, the more kind of like adept Herbert got at justifying his murders. He was able to convince himself that
00:20:30
which shows you also that he was doing some real Yeah. uh mental gymnastics here to make it and investigator shot
00:20:38
and killed two kids. There's What are you doing? Exactly. An investigator's abil inability to connect the crimes
00:20:44
only served as further evidence of his divine purpose in his mind. He's not getting caught. Exactly. By February, he
00:20:50
had stopped taking drugs altogether and replaced his drug use with long hikes in
00:20:55
the mountains around Santa Cruz, which my goodness, I wish you had done that your whole life. Yeah, just
00:21:02
literally take a hike. Yeah, take a hike. Now, on the morning of February 10th, he went out for a hike in Henry
00:21:08
Cowell State Park, just off Highway 9, not far from where Lawrence White's body was discovered. And these hikes, he
00:21:16
said, gave him time away from his parents, you know, gave him peace, gave him a little quiet, made his head feel
00:21:21
clear. Why the [ __ ] weren't you doing this forever? So that he loved these. Like this was his moment of like peace.
00:21:28
Yeah. So he was very irritated when he came across four teenagers camping in the woods that morning. Oh, how dare
00:21:34
they? Yeah. How dare they do a thing they're allowed to do in nature? Like what? Yeah. The teens, 18-year-old David
00:21:41
Oler, 18year-old Robert Spectre, 19year-old Brian Scott Card, and 15year-old Mark Drabelis, I believe is
00:21:49
how you say it, had come to the area a few days earlier, and they'd been living at like um like they had made themselves
00:21:55
like a little lean, too. Oh, okay. And when he came upon them that morning, he was absolutely disgusted because he saw
00:22:03
a bunch of trash around the large tent and he intended to speak to them about it. So his initial thought was not to
00:22:10
immediately kill them. Yeah. Which is also interesting. Or so he says, right? And well, he doesn't initially. Like
00:22:18
that's this isn't the first thing he does. Okay. So he stands outside the tent and he coughs loudly to get their
00:22:24
attention. And so they all made their way out of the tent and he tells them, "You're on public property and it's
00:22:29
illegal to camp here and you're polluting the woods with your garbage. Okay, pick it up." So they are teenage
00:22:36
boys. So they mocked him, uh, which only made Herb angrier with them. So he told
00:22:42
them he was a park ranger and he was giving them until the next day to clear out the area or they'd be arrested.
00:22:48
Okay. Which is so weird. Yeah, that is weird. You know, so he left the area and he continues his hike, but he just
00:22:55
couldn't get this interaction out of his mind. This is where the the like the illness comes into play, I feel. Yeah,
00:23:04
this is just me like speculating of course from afar. Um because it feels like he had like a moment of clarity of
00:23:11
just being like a cremagin there and just being like where like you you dumb kids what are you doing? And he was
00:23:19
leaving and then as he's leaving it's like the every it clouded again and it's like like that rain cloud set upon his
00:23:25
brain and was like no no no like you need to be irrational here and be so it's very interesting to see how this
00:23:32
all played out. Yeah. It's like he it's like an urge that he just can't fight against. It's very strange. So, he can't
00:23:38
stop thinking about it, you know, and in his head here he is doing everything he
00:23:42
can to protect the world from this impending natural disaster and these teens are just throwing garbage all over
00:23:49
the place and then mocking him when he shares his concerns about the environment. What the [ __ ] Yeah. Under
00:23:55
a normal circumstance, you would be like, "Yeah, that does suck." Mhm. a regular Joe, you know, you just what a
00:24:02
shitty day. Yeah. You like, man, like, but him, you're like, [ __ ] you, dude. Yep. Um, so at first it occurred to Herb
00:24:09
that he could just go back to the campsite and kill them all. And then he was like, you know what? I can't do that
00:24:16
because this would be a personal grievance and not keeping with my mission. Wasn't the last murder a
00:24:23
personal grievance? Thank you. You're welcome. Because Jim was the first person to give him a
00:24:30
joint, which he considered the beginning of all this, which is that's a personal
00:24:35
grievance by definition. Like that's not part of your mission. Maybe he was feeling some type of way about that.
00:24:43
Yeah. I think he's just um scattered a lying sack of [ __ ] And I think that he by his own admission he knows how to
00:24:51
convince people of certain things. knows how to convince people that he's okay to
00:24:56
be let out of a hospital. Well, remember knows how to convince people to let him
00:24:59
in the military. He was really smart. He's very smart. He excelled in school. One of the top students, great athletes,
00:25:07
very manipulative. He admitted it himself. That's how he got out of the hospital like hospitalizations every
00:25:12
time. Multiple. Yeah. So, this to me feels like him later being like, "Oh, well, this is why I didn't do it." to
00:25:20
make it seem like I'm still under that fog of like I have a personal mission. Like trying to make sure he stays in
00:25:26
that narrative, but he forgot that he had [ __ ] it up already. Like I think this is one of those like oops, gotcha.
00:25:32
Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. So that makes no sense. No, it doesn't. So over the course of the afternoon, he kept
00:25:38
obsessing over this interaction, slowly convincing himself, of course, that while he had, you know, it had been a
00:25:46
bad interaction with him with with these kids, the fact remained that they were polluting the planet. Mhm. So
00:25:54
sacrificing them to him felt like it made sense. He eventually convinced himself that this was okay. Okay. So
00:26:02
later that night, he came back under the cover of darkness, came back into the park. Damn. He hiked back out to the
00:26:12
campsite and approached it. He wanted to catch them off guard. This is so scary.
00:26:16
Yeah, because they probably thought nothing else. They forgot about him completely, I bet. Like they that just
00:26:21
wasn't even a blip on their radar, right? But the fire was still burning when he found the camp. And inside the
00:26:27
tent, he could hear them chatting and laughing with each other. Yeah. So, armed with a 22 caliber pistol, he
00:26:34
approached the tent and started unfassening the snaps that held the flaps closed. Oh my god. He startled
00:26:40
them obviously. And as soon as the tent opened, none of them had a chance to say
00:26:46
a word because he just started firing. And all six shots hit their intended targets. Each of them got hit
00:26:54
in the head. They all crumpled to the ground in a literal pile of bloody bodies. Oh, that's awful. And they're
00:27:01
all These are young kids. Oh, yeah. They're teenagers. And it's like they're in a pile now in this tent with down
00:27:08
feathers everywhere cuz he's shot through pillows, tattered sleeping bags. Like what an awful scene. So after
00:27:15
shooting the boys, he went through their pockets and took whatever money they had
00:27:19
on them. It's weird cuz I thought this was just for like, you know, a mission. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. What did that do? I
00:27:26
thought this was all for like higher moral purposes. And then he just tossed their wallets on the ground and left.
00:27:31
And oh, he also grabbed a rifle that he found in the corner of the tent because he said they didn't need it anymore. Oh
00:27:38
wow. This guy's a great a douchebag. So since he began his project of, you know, saving mankind in November, he had
00:27:47
killed 12 innocent people. Wow. Very innocent people. Chosen mostly at random. Yeah. Since then, his mental
00:27:54
health had deteriorated considerably, and it seemed like no matter what he did, the voices in his head were there
00:28:00
just demanding more supposedly. Just three days after killing the boys in Henry Cowell State Park, he was out for
00:28:07
a drive in Santa Cruz when the voice came into his thoughts again demanding another sacrifice. This is according to
00:28:14
Hen Herbert Mullen. By the way, can we go back for a second? He picked up the trash.
00:28:19
That's a great He picked up the [ __ ] That's a great question. That's a great question. What about all those down
00:28:24
feathers? Are those good for the feathers? That's polluting the environment. What about all the trash
00:28:27
you were so upset about and you just left the tent and biodegradable? Yeah. So, [ __ ] you. So, like, [ __ ] you. None
00:28:34
of this is for. Yeah. It's ridiculous. Sorry. Go ahead. No, don't worry. Needed to say that. I'm glad you said it. But,
00:28:41
so he's driving through Santa Cruz. He hears the voice saying, "You need to make another sacrifice." And at first he
00:28:47
said he thought about resisting, but instead he just pulled a U-turn and headed back into a quiet neighborhood
00:28:53
that he just driven through. Oh. As Herb drove slowly down the street, he spotted
00:28:59
72year-old Fred Perez. Are you kidding me? It's just standing on the sidewalk. He was a longtime resident of Santa
00:29:06
Cruz. He had once been a successful heavyweight prize fighter. Stop it. before retiring from boxing and using
00:29:12
his winnings to go into business for himself as a truck driver and a fishmonger. His businesses were
00:29:18
successful. He was able to provide for his family and then finally he passed the business down to his kids a few
00:29:23
years later. Oh, it's not known what Fred was actually doing that afternoon. He was just hanging out on the sidewalk.
00:29:29
Yeah. But it's likely he didn't even notice the Chevy car like slow to a stop nearby. and he definitely didn't notice
00:29:37
the driver aim the 22 caliber rifle in his direction. So he hit Fred Perez directly
00:29:44
in the heart with with a shot and killed him instantly on the sidewalk in his own
00:29:48
neighborhood. He was just in his own neighborhood living his life like and he did everything. He had like he had a
00:29:55
successful career. He provided for his family enjoys retirement now. He passed his and then he went into another
00:30:01
business to like provide even more for his family and then passed that business on to his kids. and he's just retired
00:30:07
and just living that. But this is totally about sacrifice. But this is definitely about that now. And so he was
00:30:13
killed instantly on the sidewalk. Herb having done his what he considered his duty put it, you know, the safety back
00:30:20
on the rifle, put it back in the trunk and left the scene calmly, just drove away. Insane. So Fred Perez likely never
00:30:28
saw his killer, but someone else did. Good. That afternoon, Fred's neighbors had been out in their garden and they
00:30:34
saw Herbert Mullen drive. [ __ ] with a quiet neighborhood. No, you don't. We got neighborhood watch going on. [ __ ]
00:30:40
yeah. I love my badass neighborhood. Yep. I I pull in my own neighborhood and I see people looking up their house.
00:30:47
Hell yeah. They So, his neighbors watched the U-turn happen. They watched him slow to a stop a few yards from
00:30:54
Perez. And they watched in horror as he was shot. They also managed to write down his license plate number before
00:31:01
he'd gotten too far down the street. Immediately ran inside and called the police. That is a real one. Now, as luck
00:31:07
would have it, the first officer to hear the report of the shooting go out over the radio was a patrol officer who was
00:31:13
in the neighborhood where Perez lived. Oh, wow. And within a minute of the shooting, Herbert Mullen was pulled over
00:31:20
on the side of the road. Wow. Within a minute. One minute. Yep. When the officer approached the driver's window,
00:31:26
he noted the man behind the wheel matched the description of the man who' fled the scene of the Perez shooting.
00:31:32
And he noted the 22 caliber pistol laying on the passenger seat. Yeah. In the days that followed, that pistol
00:31:38
would be a match for the slugs found in nine murder victims. But for the time being, the officer placed him under
00:31:44
arrest for the murder of Fred Perez, effectively ending Herbert Mullen's fivemonth murder spree that ended the
00:31:51
lives of 13 people. It's crazy that all that happened in five months. Yeah. Now,
00:31:57
when he was arrested on February 13th, 1972, the bodies of Mary Gilfoil, David Olicker, Robert Spectre, Brian Scott
00:32:05
Card, and Mark Drabelis had not been discovered yet. Oh, but Santa Cruz police were still able to hold him for
00:32:12
the murder of Fred Perez while they were still investigating. And in their interviews with those who knew Herbert
00:32:17
Mullen, police learned very little about his background and any potential motive
00:32:22
for these murders. The owner of the Pacific View Motel, where Herb had been staying for the last few days, described
00:32:28
him as an ordinary guy. He said he was real quiet. We never saw him except when he came by the office to get his mail.
00:32:35
And a former classmate was equally shocked by this whole thing and told reporters that Herbert Mullen was
00:32:41
extremely bright and very popular in high school. He said, "Herb always seemed to be uptight, but he was
00:32:46
popular." Which is so wild. That is really wild. While reporters just went ham trying to
00:32:54
get information about the accused killer, detectives were busy linking the gun back to the Francis and Giana
00:33:00
murders. On the afternoon of February 15th, he was brought before a municipal court judge and arraigned for the
00:33:06
murders of Fred Perez, Jim and Joan Giana, and Kathy David and Damon Francis. Oh, which oh kills me. When
00:33:13
asked if he had anything to say, he said, "In accordance with the fifth amendment, I will make no statement."
00:33:19
Okay, cool. You little [ __ ] The next day, fingerprints found in the confessional at St. Mary's Church were
00:33:25
determined to be a match for Herbert Mullen. Wow. And he was charged with the murder of Father Henry Toé. What a way
00:33:30
to find that. That's great. The arrest of Herbert Mullen came as a big relief to the residents of Santa Cruz.
00:33:37
Unfortunately, they did not know at the time that there was definitely another killer on the loose. Yeah, they had not
00:33:42
got Edmond Kemper at that point, but the motive for the murders was still a mystery. Nobody could understand. This
00:33:48
was so random, right? And Herbert Mullen wasn't talking. So, Peter Chang, who was
00:33:53
the district attorney at the time, told reporters, "The motive for these slangs is not clearly defined, but it appears
00:33:59
that each of these people was an acquaintance of the suspect at some time during troublesome phases of his life.
00:34:06
Not all of them at all. Yeah. So, it's like the two the logic I guess like you want I don't know. It doesn't make any
00:34:14
sense. Seems like they were just trying to make people feel better. I think it made sense about random crime. Yeah. It
00:34:20
made sense in the killings of, you know, the Gianeras and the Francis's because he did have an acquaintance there, but
00:34:26
it didn't explain the murder of Fred Perez or Father Toé or Mary Gilfoil or Lawrence White or the Boys in the Woods.
00:34:35
Like, it didn't none of those made sense. Yeah, that's exactly. Yeah. According to Santa Cruz Sheriff's
00:34:41
Detective Ken Pittinger, who spoke with um Herbert Mullen's family and former friends, uh Herbert quote freaked out on
00:34:49
acid during a visit to San Francisco's Hate Ashberry district two years after his high school graduation in
00:34:55
1965, which apparently could have accounted for his random and extremely violent behavior.
00:35:03
I'm going to go with no. I'm like, I know that it didn't help. No, it didn't help. But there there was definitely
00:35:09
other stuff here. Yeah, that's not that like Yeah, everybody knows a lot of people who have had a bad trip. Yeah,
00:35:15
you can't account a murder spree. No. No. So, the picture became even more opaque a few days later when the bodies
00:35:23
of the four teenagers were discovered by Brian Scott Card's brother, Jeffrey, in
00:35:28
the woods. He had not seen or heard from the group in two weeks. So Jeffrey Card
00:35:33
hitchhiked from Los Angeles to Santa Cruz to the campsite where he found his brother and three friends dead in the in
00:35:39
the tent. Oh, it's awful that he had to be the one to find that. There was no evidence found at the scene to link
00:35:44
Mullen to the killings, but investigators suspected he might be the one responsible anyways. And the body of
00:35:50
Mary Gilfoil had been discovered in the mountains a few days earlier. Oh god. Which must have been horrific. Yeah. And
00:35:57
Herb was suspected in that killing as well. And in his statement to the press, Chang referred to the murders as a quote
00:36:03
psychopathic type of killing. And the link to Herbert Mullen was entirely speculative at this point. Okay? Because
00:36:09
it was they didn't have any evidence. Within a few days of finding the teenagers in the woods, the murders of
00:36:17
all four boys were linked back to Herbert Mullen through the 22 caliber revolver used in the other killings, and
00:36:23
four more counts of murder were added to him. Additionally, the rifle used in the
00:36:28
murder of Fred Perez was soon traced back to the teenagers because remember he took it from their tent. Yep. Which
00:36:34
only strengthened the case against Mullen in the murders of David Oler, Robert Spectre, Brian Scottard, and Mark
00:36:41
Dbelbis. Now, after a brief delay, Herbert Mullen finally appeared in court in mid June and he entered a plea of
00:36:47
innocent by reason of insanity. That plea obviously required the trial to go in two phases. one tier evidence of
00:36:55
diminished capacity, the second to determine guilt. By the time the case went to trial in early August, Herbert
00:37:01
Mullen had been linked to the murders of Lawrence White and Mary Gilfoil, bringing his victim count to 13, though
00:37:07
he had only been charged with 10 murders at trial. Now, at trial, one of Herb's evaluating psychiatrists, Dr. Charles
00:37:15
Morris, laid out his motives based on what Mullen had told him during their consultations. Um, he said, "I think he
00:37:22
premeditated, considered it, and went ahead and did it." Dr. Morris explained that Herb had sought revenge against Jim
00:37:29
Geiana for quote, "lee leading him down the garden path to drug use, and he had killed the Francis family to get rid of
00:37:36
any witnesses because he had already knocked on that door." Which means that tells you what that he knew what he was
00:37:42
doing. He knew that was wrong, and he tried to cover it up. Yep. As for the boys in the woods, Morris claimed Herb
00:37:47
quote had a thing out for hippies. And since these people were hippies, it was a good time to do away with them. Feel
00:37:53
like it's not even like a thing for hippies. He was just pissed about the trash. Yeah. I think he just wanted to
00:37:59
Yeah. Basically, Dr. Morris didn't believe that Herb was criminally insane at the time of the murders. Agreed.
00:38:05
Rather, he had been under considerable emotional strain and ultimately killed Fred Perez in order to get caught. Yeah.
00:38:12
They think he literally did that to get caught. Do you think so? I have no idea honestly with that one. I can see both
00:38:18
sides of that argument. Yeah, because one, he does these I mean he did I mean he
00:38:24
did it to Lawrence White. He did it right on the side of the road. He hit him with the bat, but it was a little
00:38:29
more of a uh off to the side kind of thing. This was in a residential neighborhood on the
00:38:36
sidewalk as a cucumber, right? So, and I have to wonder, did he even did he see the neighbors? He might have even seen
00:38:44
the neighbors and been like, I don't know. Yeah, it is interesting to think about because I do believe he is a
00:38:49
mentally unstable, mentally ill man. I don't think you can argue that. I just don't think he's insane. Same. Agree.
00:38:56
That's And those are two different things. Yeah, I can see both sides of the argument with the did he do it
00:39:01
intentionally to get caught thing. I could see it being that. I could see it just being coincidence. A coincidence
00:39:07
that he got caught. Now, Mullen took the stand to testify in his own defense a few days later and did his best to
00:39:14
refute much of what the doctor said. According to Mullen, quote, "He didn't think it was right to kill and he had
00:39:21
gone to a loss church to give him strength to never attempt to kill again." Apparently, that didn't work cuz
00:39:28
then you killed a priest. Yeah. In the church. So, like I don't know how much ground you have to stand on there. Yeah.
00:39:35
And then continued to kill many, many people after that. Exactly. Over the course of several hours, he went on to
00:39:40
claim that he was commanded to kill by the voices in his head, which sounds a lot like someone who was trying to get
00:39:46
that insanity uh defense. And he gave what one reporter referred to as quote a rambling answer complete with biblical
00:39:54
references, which is kind of textbook, kind of textbook. His testimony was often
00:40:00
unfocused, very incoherent, frequently contradicted himself, you know, that kind of thing. For example, when asked
00:40:07
why he killed the four young campers in the woods, he said, quote, "I had been arrested in 1968 for camping in
00:40:13
possession of marijuana, and it bothered me that they should get away with it." I'm sorry, what? I thought it was the
00:40:19
polluting. Yeah. Like, what are you talking about? And at no point earlier did he say they had marijuana on them.
00:40:25
No. And it's like, now you're saying that you were annoyed that they were allowed to camp there and you got in
00:40:29
trouble for it, so you killed them. What? Yeah. Like, hello. Yeah. And in that way, he said he was enforcing the
00:40:36
law. No, that's not how the law works actually at all. But then only a short time later, he said something different
00:40:44
about it. He said he quote received a telepathic message from the young men saying it was all right to kill kill
00:40:50
them. So he did. It sounds like he just had an urge to kill people and followed through in that urge. And he tried to
00:40:56
tried to come up with a reason. Tried to explain it. Yeah. On August 19th, the jury deliberated
00:41:02
briefly before finding Herb guilty on two counts of firstdegree murder and eight counts of seconddegree murder,
00:41:09
effectively removing the question of diminished capacity from the case. The jury appears to have recognized that he
00:41:15
definitely struggled with mental illness. No one is disagreeing with that, but they believed there was
00:41:21
sufficient evidence to suggest he knew what he was doing and he knew that it was morally and legally wrong. Yeah.
00:41:26
Like he literally walked around a couple of scenes and picked up shell shell casings like got rid of witnesses and
00:41:33
another he got rid of the whole friends. He got rid of children because he didn't
00:41:36
he knew they could point and say he showed up at my door, right? Like come on. In his statement to the press, um
00:41:42
Herbert Mullen's attorney said he felt the jury had not wanted to find him criminally insane because he might end
00:41:48
up being released at some point in the future. He said, he told reporters, "If a man found innocent by reason of
00:41:54
insanity went to a hospital and was never going to get out, I think we'd have a lot more insanity verdicts." I
00:42:00
don't think that's the case. I think they think he knew what he was doing was wrong and baby girl, why don't you look
00:42:06
up the definition of legally insane. Exactly. Like don't sit here and try to say like they just don't want him to get
00:42:12
out of prison and get out of the hospital. It's like no, we're just looking at the definition of legally
00:42:16
insane. And pinning it on the jury like that is just such a copout. Yeah. Like [ __ ] you. Like you failed. Well, and
00:42:21
also just days after the verdict, jury foreman Ken Springer wrote a letter to the governor expressing his outrage that
00:42:28
no one had intervened to prevent this loss of 13 lives. Like no one had intervened in Herbert Mullen's life and
00:42:37
made this stop. He wrote, "I hold the state executive and state legislative offices as responsible for these 10
00:42:44
lives as I do the defendant himself. None of this need ever have happened." and he cited his multiple
00:42:51
hospitalizations and releases as missed opportunities to keep a killer off the street. That's the thing like the the
00:42:57
defense attorney there wants to point to the jury as having it be their fault. It's like no, it's actually a system
00:43:01
failure like it is most of the time. Very much a systemic failure here. Yeah. And he was just pointing to what would
00:43:07
continue to be a systematic failure because a lot of times people who are proven proven criminally insane do go to
00:43:14
these hospitals and they do get let out and the whole [ __ ] issue starts up again. Yeah. The cycle begins again.
00:43:20
Right. So it's it is a systematic failure. Yeah. He he wrote in the letter, according to testimony at his
00:43:25
trial, Herbert Mullen could and did respond favorably to treatment of his mental illness. Yet, the laws of the
00:43:31
state certainly prohibit officials from forcing continued treatment of his illness. And I have the impression that
00:43:37
they, as a matter of fact, discourage continued treatment by state and county institutions. Which, like, all right,
00:43:43
Ken. I know. Like, good for you writing to your governor being like, "Fuck y'all." Like, like these 13 people
00:43:50
didn't have to die. More people need to do [ __ ] like that. Yeah. Cuz it's like
00:43:53
there's a this is a a failure on many levels. Mhm. Herbert Mullen was ultimately sentenced to life in prison
00:44:00
and sent to Mule Creek State Prison and loan to serve out his sentence. He tried
00:44:05
many times to gain parole, but he was repeatedly deemed unsuitable by the parole board and denied. While at Mule
00:44:11
Creek, he corresponded regularly with supporters outside the prison. That's absolutely [ __ ] boring. And even
00:44:18
attempted to find a wife. Did he? No. In 1987, he placed an ad in the Scots Valley banner. Why is that allowed? And
00:44:27
he wrote, "Seeking an Irish wife and he described himself as 40 years old. I'm 14 years in prison. I desire to sire
00:44:35
children now." No, thank you. You killed children. Yeah, absolutely not. Crazy. The ad was unsuccessful. That's wild.
00:44:44
Also, saying sire children is [ __ ] nuts. I got to go. On August 18th, 2022. Yeah. Recently, Herbert Mullen died of
00:44:53
natural causes at the California Healthc Care facility in Stockton at 75 years old. Unfortunate he got to live his life
00:45:01
out that long and die of natural causes. Very, very unfortunate. I hate that he got to live. I do too.
00:45:08
But because also he outlived Fred Perez and that makes me angry cuz Fred was 72.
00:45:13
Yeah. I'm like, [ __ ] you. A lot of times actual justice is just really never served. It's hard to come by sometimes.
00:45:20
Yeah, it is. I mean, at least he went to prison. But yeah, just the fact that somebody like that shouldn't have
00:45:26
had access to put an ad out for a wife. No, like I don't I obviously like prison
00:45:32
shouldn't be this like horrible like throw away the key, you know? Yeah. Like the whole part is supposed to be it
00:45:39
should be for reform to a degree and we've had that conversation so many times. But I just don't feel like
00:45:44
somebody of that level of like lack of humanity should be able to put a [ __ ] ad out for a voice. Exactly. I totally
00:45:52
agree. Like should he be able to take a class and you know maybe better his mind
00:45:56
a little bit? Exactly. But like that kind of thing. But putting out a personal ad like really we're trying to
00:46:01
do that? Like come on. No. Absolutely not. Ridiculous. Well, that was a crazy tale. Yeah. That's Herbert Mullen. With
00:46:10
all of that being said. Yeah, we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird, but not so weird that you go
00:46:17
to prison after murdering a bunch of people and then place an ad in your local paper uh saying that you want to
00:46:22
sire children. Gross with an Irish wife. Yeah. So, so specific. Yeah. Adorable. Strange and upsetting.
00:46:29
[Music] [Music]