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hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elena and I'm Alvin and I'm Fran L and this is morbid with a little
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[Music] crossover affirmative murder is here man first of all I have to let you guys
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know that we're bring you in behind Theo the closed curtain we're going to open that curtain up like whiz um you guys
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are fulfilling something for me and Fran we've been beefing for years now I guess
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years whenever I came on and guested had a great time but uh Fran wasn't able to
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make it for scheduling reasons and he's been holding it over my head for since that time has happened he's been very
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aggressive and saying all kind of passive aggressive things we've come to blows almost several times so it feels
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good to get a redo and have the full quartet here and so I want to say thank you FR please speak and let the people
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know that you're real it's yeah I am real uh it's it's an honor to be on here with you guys I would say the queens of
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True Crime podcasting oh my God thank you yeah so um I got turn think the last time yeah I think the last time Alvin
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maybe hired somebody to like flat my tire so I couldn't come prove that's why I didn't make I'm happy I'm happy to be
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here though we're happy to have you guys I love that's what as soon as we got on I was
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like Fran is here like the whole we get to meet Fran the whole crew is here we had so much fun collabing with Alvin
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last time but we were like we we need a Fran something felt like it was missing a little bit this is full this is let's
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blame it on him we'll blame it on Alvin this took a turn I did not expect Alvin why don't you just
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go be by myself let's just get out of here first we're in my house so so I will not be forced out of my home this
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way um but yes again like like France said thank you guys for having us it's uh great to see you guys again um always
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a great time having the conversation with you guys individually and together I know that's been so fun too I know
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we've done a couple of those over the years yeah so um yeah yeah you guys are you guys are cool peeps we tried so are
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you right back at you yeah this a Beau family right now why don't you get out of here turn back on my
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side we can all be in this together we're a family here stop arguing no the kids arguing uh but we you know what
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we've got something kind of wild to talk about today and I'm really excited about
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it a little bit because it's different than what we we've done on our show yeah I felt I felt like you guys would enjoy
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a conversation about a medieval tool of um execution and how things come to an end you know some one day people just
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stopped planking like one day a guy did a plank and then everybody was like oh that's not in anymore that's not cool
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and so this is the execution version of that I felt like this is It's always cool it's interesting to see when Trends
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you know subside and this happened in in this case with the guillotine you know like Tik Tock sounds go out of style
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yeah stop they're like why you using that sound don't use that sound skinny jeans same exact that dog going hell no
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hell no it's got like a couple more weeks left you know and then someday somebody's going to do that and they
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like no that anymore you're old yeah gross this is the exact same thing and I think so what we're going to
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be talking about today and you're going to be able to hear Fran and Alvin tell this story for the most part which is
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great because you're going to hear what amazing storytellers there are and it's going to make you want to listen to this
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and then jump right over to their feed and start gobbling up everything that they have to offer so that's up to you
00:03:55
guys of course but we do have a podcast called affirmative murder so if you like
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what we do here come come check us out there's more there's room for you on the train it's trains trains podcast of
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trains yeah yeah I like trains TRS are good we're the conductors trains planes automobiles yes
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boats however you get recommend it we don't transp say we're we're not going to force you over there but we are
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highly suggesting by like shoving you as hard as we can over there yes but gently
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you'll love it yeah that's all you need to know so should we just should we go should we get into so let's let's
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go let's do this like little John okay um so let's start with like the history of the guillotine right let's yes so the
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guillotine Inception guys like many things in modern history is steeped in like rich white man smoking mirrors so
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one day this guy named um his name was Joseph ignis Guillotine this was in 1789 he comes into a room and he's all
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like which that was actual audio from that moment actually yeah we sourced it yeah
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very rare audio yes exactly that was a archival archival audio yes from the French Parliament um but basically what
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he said was hey guys like the way we're killing people is super like barbaric and uh gross and torturous and we need
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to like streamline this clean things up let's get more inundated in the future and leave that stuff in the past and
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then left the room and two less socially important people poor people then did all the hard work and invented the
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actual Guillotine more specifically their names were Tobias Schmidt and Antoine Louie so but the the device is
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called the guillotine named after the rich guy named Joseph ignis Guillotine who just had an
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idea like Loosely about cleaning up how people die and then they were like how about this and he's like that's fine put
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my name on it absolutely put my name and I'll trademark it and patent it as well
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so he wanted to make something that's more barbaric and gross like quicker oh no I
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would I would disagree anybody who wants to look up like the Western European modes of of killing people before the
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guillotine straight up some of the craziest things I've ever heard of there was one there was a chair like a metal
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chair that they would just put over fire and the chair would get really hot and then you just would burn to death on the
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chair you wouldn't die so then it's like everything basically before this was like we torture you for a long time and
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then we hit you over the head with a mallet yeah cuz you don't die just we just torture you really bad they had
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another one they tie you to a we put you out yeah they're like all breaking on the rack that was was that breaking on
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the rack and they like break your butt like misery one by one just like like slow as [ __ ] turn you into like a
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scorpion essentially like and then I feel like I feel that when we talk about it it's aw and it's like you stole some
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bread to the rack you go and then the rack wouldn't kill you and then they would like let the B the birds eat you
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slowly also I read that they would either also they would hit you in your chest with a hammer or your stomach
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because these were fatal blows but over time so like I think we burst your appendix when we hit you with this
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hammer in the stomach so now after you break all your bones you'll die in like three days from like stomach stach they
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were like sepsis yeah exactly that'll kill you you'll die eventually yeah um but so but it's kind of it's kind of
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weird hearing the name now where it's like we know his name but it being named after the machine that was like
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beheading people is kind of is is crazy to yeah like if somebody name was like name was like n or something
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exactly new Simmons wait what yeah you're like whoa wait a second but yes Guillotine
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you think of the action and it's like no it's just some guy had IDE guy name yeah
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and some people say it Guillotine when I was younger everyone said Guillotine and
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then it like switched over into Guillotine I feel like yeah cuz we have this conversation all the time like how
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do you really say I like float back and forth sometimes I'll RT to Guillotine I think it might be I say Guillotine
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though and I always have yeah I might have made this up I have impost syndrome so I'm like it it's French and I'm like
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I'm gonna say it French but if I was just being myself I would say guillotin there's who else yeah right I mean
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that's how it looks they both feel right yeah I don't think either is wrong I don't either it's di all right yeah if
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it looks like a duck and it quacks like a duck it's a [ __ ] duck so shut the [ __ ] up you know absolutely certainly
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it's a guillotine they weren't calling it Gilly Gilly Hicks there you go that's a very deep cut reference I don't know
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if anybody shout at Gilly Hicks I used to work I wor I worked in the ab cromie umbrella so I was you knowell yeah shout
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out to shout out to G gy Hicks G tvt shout to G no but as we all said all jokes aside though the guy even though
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he just had an idea the idea was you know steeped in some level of dignity and not torturing people so the
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criminals of French of France's past should really thank this guy cuz like I said the stuff was very torturous it was
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it was could have been worse yeah you could have been melted on a chair for like punching your friend yeah from the
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butt up but up which is way worse so um the guillotin or Guillotine went on to become the symbol of the
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French re Revolution because the people saw it as this great equalizer because of the you know the ideas behind its
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Inception people believe that whether you were royalty or you came from the lowest of the low the guillotine was the
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great equalizer like everybody who commits the same crimes they die by the guillotine and this was enforced by the
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fact that uh Louis the 16th and his wife Marie Antoinette ever heard of her Queen
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literally literally um she they were both beheaded during the French Revolution like the people revolted
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against them and cut their heads off in a in Mutiny damn and um they were kind of like the Taylor Swift and Travis
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Kelce of the 17th century I would say so they kind of were you know they were they were they were the it couple until
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until the ties until they weren't everybody loved them until they did it everybody loved Maria anet had
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great gowns and she was like super trendy until the Super Bowl so you know we'll see how the Super
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Bowl goes but um hopefully doesn't end the way that Marie Antonette and Lou and Louis went we can all hope we can all
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hope yeah it would it would be a more interesting Super Bowl but be different in a different way in a different way in
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a very different way so um it would hit a little different it would hit very it would hit very
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different very true um for the next hundred years though the guillotine shined as a symbol of France's
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altruistic and dignified stance on capital punishment and over time the public sentiment towards the execution
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style for highest crimes it started to shift and this really kind of really really took place in during World War II
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when Adolf Hitler was killing thousands of people publicly using the guillotine but it was more it was malicious he just
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if you dissented against the regime of of Adolf Hitler he would behead you publicly so really people were like oh
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this isn't this um equaling force in the cast system is just the torture device the idea that the pr team around uh the
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guillotine when it first came out was super strong it was like Steve Jobs level where they're like this are we
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cutting your head off yeah but like it's it's got Wi-Fi got Wii this thing has Bluetooth like wo
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this is revolutionary like this is next level stuff it's like you're cutting off
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somebody's head and it falls in the basket so like you can wear a button-up shirt while it happens so this is
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dignify what song do you want to go out to we all can watch this publicly it's super clean nobody gets blood on them
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because it's so fast it cuts the head off it goes in the baskets we can all be we can all go to like a nice classy
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dinner after this yeah your but it's a barbaric tool that slices off your head and falls in the basket that's what it's
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always been but then when Hitler started using it people were like this is nasty
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actually it's not the dignified tool that we thought it was was it's like it was always this gross thing that's but
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I'm glad you know now yeah at least we're starting to have conversations now around capital punishment and you know
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and those kind of things but it took kind of the turn of the century you know the Industrial Age people driving cars
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and stuff to go slicing off people's heads in public is wrong kind of fun kind of
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gnarly it's a little hardcore know so look at us as humans just takes us a minute look us go yeah upon reflection I
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don't think I'd like to see somebody's head cut off in broad daylight I'd like to go to the cinema yeah now that they
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think about it so just a couple decades removed from World War II the nation of France was so
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far from the barbaric stances that they had so long ago that this idea of a falling blade being this distinguished
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uh decent way of killing people was now starting to be um the subject of conversations in France and all across
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Western Europe because Europe did do in a lot of countries in Europe um did away
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with capital punishment long before the United States did because we also didn't
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federally in the United States we still do that so yeah yeah so but a lot of countries in in Western Europe don't
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kill people as a form of punishment um but yeah this became an outdated Concept in France um during the 40s and 50s and
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60s it started to become like this conversation that was had like should we be doing this if we really are the
00:13:20
dignified people that we say we are is killing people in the first place to even dignified at all it's like a maybe
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not perhaps not not yeah like it that might not be that chill it was that kind it was the 60s they're like you know
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what that's not chill that's super not chill we're moving into a chill Vibe Century here got to leave some stuff
00:13:42
behind let's calm down so all of that backstory brings us to the final time a state sanction G guillotining or
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guillotining took place in France which was in the year 1977 hilariously in a sense the same
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year that Star Wars and New Hope came out so there was wow um this really big leap in
00:14:02
technology as far as movies go and also France was still like we cut head off yeah we C people yeah yeah when you put
00:14:08
those two events together you're like at the same time at the same damn time crazy like the the idea of such an old
00:14:17
form of torture yeah being still used while you know uh my boy Harrison Ford is doing this thing looking super Lan in
00:14:25
those in those boot cut uh black pants those goutos hell yeah yeah just bounce a qu you could bounce a court off that
00:14:31
thing so uh so um anyway yes this is the story of Hamid Hamid jandu who was the last man to be killed in France by the
00:14:41
method of guillotine fun fact as we discussed before we went um live mics with you
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guys the last public guillotining uh actually took place in 1939 when a serial killer named Eugene Weidman was
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beheaded in front of a crowd of hundreds damn a crowd of like 600 people gathered
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4 hours early early they were passing out sausage sandwiches people were like they were get they were like doing the
00:15:03
wave they were cheering Super Bowl coella this was yes this was M this was Coachella
00:15:14
Coachella stands out there this was Coachella 1939 my seat they were 4 hours early the the be the beheading took
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place at 4:00 a.m. so we out there at midnight Dam wow people were on shoulders one people they picked out
00:15:26
their outfits ahead of time exact people yeah people were wearing up medieval like it is straight up like from the
00:15:34
1600s like and it's 1939 like that is wild everybody wearing like super like flowery headdresses and yeah it was it
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was a very big fashion moment like what wearing yeah Lana Del re was there in a past life yes Del Immortal Spirit Lana
00:15:53
Del she's she's a thousand years old and she was at this cuz of course she would
00:15:57
be Lana is always a ghost in a white dress always she always Christopher Lee was actually at that one who Christopher
00:16:04
Lee from Star Wars and Dracula and Lord of the Rings he was at the he was at this he was 17 years old and he was
00:16:11
actually at that one the 1939 one yes and he said he didn't look he said he at the last second he said he heard it
00:16:19
though oh yeah he said it was like Wilds oh you heard it heard it oh my goodness
00:16:24
probably like a crunch or something crazy I know no but here in like the membrane of
00:16:29
the spine head oh it's true like if it's like if they used like a um a narel CO razor probably it should be sharp but
00:16:39
then you hear a thump you hear that thumb if it was a bck you'd hear everything use sponsored by B this this
00:16:48
one this is the last public one it was sponsored by big it was sponsored yeah the documentary is coming out soon was
00:16:53
the how the the it failed the event like like the wood like wood stock a great sponsoring opportunity like big
00:17:01
ruin everything the guy didn't that's why Gillette is the best the man can get because they did not fall for this yeah
00:17:08
but so um so this last this last one this last public one people were going crazy the the the beheading took place
00:17:16
at like 4:00 a.m. and people lost their [ __ ] they were throwing their sausage sandwiches they were living for the
00:17:20
moment ah more and the French government was so embarrassed that they were like we are never doing this again so it took
00:17:26
a crowd out can't no it's not even outrage they were the crowd was so excited and ravenous that the French
00:17:33
government was it disgusted at itself and was like we're not doing this anymore you guys are having too much fun
00:17:39
you guys having too much fun too much fun at this party Dancing Yeah they were the French they were the fun police they
00:17:44
were the front police these people had a blast man they were you know they they were losing their [ __ ] they were
00:17:49
throwing stuff like they lost their mind it wasn't like the people lost their mind at this barbaric incident it was so
00:17:54
sick and awesome the French government was like this is d you people are animals and we are taking
00:18:01
this away from you because we thought you guys would be disgusted and you guys are too excited it's over now it's
00:18:06
supposed to be a lesson you're supposed to learn a lesson you're supposed to learn a lesson you're supposed to walk
00:18:08
away from this like you shouldn't steal like you know what it was they were like
00:18:12
we see that you were all humans and that humans are terrible and we don't ever want to see that again yeah we'd like to
00:18:19
Pretend We're not this way this is why the government exists to protect the people from themselves yes the
00:18:24
government makes the decisions that the people would never make because your guys are animals so which is pretty
00:18:29
horrifying it's really horrifying yeah somebody left that was like I'm going to frame a dude for thievery tomorrow so
00:18:34
that they can another one tomorrow it's gonna be awesome I [ __ ] hate my neighbor go let's frame him and then
00:18:41
he'll be beheaded publicly cuz we look back at these like public executions from like you know King Henry VII and
00:18:48
all that [ __ ] and we're like oh my God people were like bringing their kids to
00:18:51
this they were just like coming out for this like this bent people were so terrible back then and then were like
00:18:58
1939 we're all like woo listen to on radio guy when everybody got on like you know
00:19:05
um leader hosen and those big man sparkly dresses I don't like what William Shakespeare's always depicted in
00:19:11
when I see them in those I'm like yeah those people got beheaded but when you see somebody in like a a suit yeah see
00:19:17
people wear those kind of Suits got somebody with a pocket watch and a and a big bow tie was like and like a
00:19:24
pompadoras and they were like let's go to the beheading brush their teeth hygiene was a thing exactly you know
00:19:31
also off topic a little bit I was having a discussion with my girlfriend the other day and we were talking about how
00:19:35
that 50 Shades of Gray moment like we all just kind of look back on that or we did look back on it and was like people
00:19:41
were going to the movie theaters and droves to like watch smut yeah like like like the it was sold
00:19:47
out like this weekend you can't get a ticket to go see 50 Shades and there's just a bunch of people in the audience
00:19:52
being like Oh my just watching were United when you look back on it that's really weird to do
00:19:58
was like it's wild elbow to Elbow with a stranger just being like in heat that's
00:20:03
crazy you know so like people are going to look back on that someday like what were these people doing this is this is
00:20:09
a dirty we a weird species of people Gathering to watch fan people people have are really something something to
00:20:17
we don't get better we just get weirder we just get different carp to a guillotine is is it's nuts man eating a
00:20:24
sausage sandwich while somebody's getting their head cut off his and that's a real thing like the sausage
00:20:28
sandwich thing is a real thing yeah the shops there there was two shops right there in the Town Square that were like
00:20:33
we got to load up on sausage sandwiches cuz there's going to be a a packed crowd
00:20:37
tonight they were they had that'll change you and there were waiters like joking around so was money to be made
00:20:42
vendors there's vendors out there like popcorn get your popcorn it's straight up medieval oh yeah as hell but it was
00:20:49
1939 1939 so uh let's get back to this guy named jamid Jan dubie the the man in question so jamid jandie was born on
00:21:00
September 22nd 1949 he was actually born in Tunisia which I have not been to but
00:21:05
when I looked up pictures it's gorgeous it's like a coastal city it's like a coastal country in Northern Africa it's
00:21:11
um got beautiful Waters it almost kind of looks like Greece but um there is a um travel ow warning or travel advisory
00:21:19
about like there's like a high crime at the moment but it's a beautiful I mean you look up the I couldn't find a bad
00:21:25
picture of it oh it's gorgeous yeah this this is gorgeous no this is Gorge I want
00:21:30
to go yeah so I guess what for whatever reason by the time Hamid was 20 years old he was like [ __ ] all this blue water
00:21:36
and Sun yeah yeah listen I had a great time when I went to France but it is pretty dirty it looks like New York is
00:21:44
it yeah yeah like all the pictures that you see are lies yeah Li propagandas prop it's just New York
00:21:53
every restaurant down by the Eiffel Tower sucks like they're all like they want you to leave quickly cuz it's t
00:21:58
it's touristy so you really got to go outside it's like it's like New York you got you don't go to Time Square okay
00:22:04
that's true yeah no you got go there's a word for that like when you go to Paris
00:22:08
and you get disappointed cuz it's like it's like a thing a lot of people experience I'm gonna google it keep
00:22:15
going and I'll just cck yeah it's it's yeah the the French disappointment if you go with a tourist mindset if you
00:22:22
don't if you go and you're like oh I went on Tik Tok and I was like places the locals go I had a great time okay
00:22:27
but the the Lou uh the Eiffel Tower all these things you're never goingon to get
00:22:33
close to the Mona Lisa you're you're the Eiffel Tower you look at it but it was closed like you couldn't go in it
00:22:38
because they were doing construction everything is just like but beautiful people great shops and if you go to the
00:22:44
places where the locals go it's a cool City but it is dirty um great public trans it's called Paris syndrome by the
00:22:51
way it's a thing there you go people get hallucinations increased heart rate nausea cuz they're so disappointed damn
00:22:58
were you that disappointed yeah really you're like wait I thought that like this was like amale everybody thinks
00:23:03
it's amale yeah everybody thinks it's that they're like it's gonna be like a romantic beautiful dream yeah so it's
00:23:09
it's never that it's just never that um but anyway so Hamid had moved to France by the time he was 20 years old and he
00:23:14
was living and working in France as a stock boy at a grocery store he also had a job as a landscaper but in 1971 he
00:23:20
suffered an accident on the job one of Jam's legs was caught in a tractor crushing it horribly and causing him
00:23:28
lose 2/3 of his right leg oh that's a lot of your leg that's a lot of your leg that's almost all of it pretty much all
00:23:34
of it yeah but I like see what they did in that um remember that two that um two-part movie thing that came out with
00:23:41
Rose McGowan when she made it a gun oh yes the grind house he lost about that much of his leg like up most of up up to
00:23:49
quad got about that movie yeah well that was a really bold idea for like 2 a double feature horror forgot about
00:23:58
that like I'm not sitting in the movie for five hours crazy now I'd love it but AK47 AK AK-47 leg damn yeah and it it
00:24:10
was that was a ah when movies are just I like when movies are silly it's like how
00:24:14
does she pull the trigger with like her like what pulls the Trigg who knows who knows it's movie Magic and that's I love
00:24:21
when movies do that like don't ask questions there's this this lady has a gun as leg that's awesome just happens
00:24:27
whenever the theme of a movie is don't worry about it that's when I love it like when you ask a question you just go
00:24:32
don't worry about it deal with it yeah you don't ask questions just enjoy what's happening take the red yeah so
00:24:40
yeah so unfortunately Hamid did lose about two-thirds of his likes and he did not get a cool gun like he just they
00:24:45
gave him a prosthetic eventually um he struggled to find work for years after this accident and this is when he
00:24:51
started to take up drinking and using controlled substances and in 1973 he met a young woman named Elizabeth bisquet
00:24:58
okay that's elegant name like it's a very elegant name yeah sidebar I am ashamed at how long I did call biscuits
00:25:04
bisquettes bisquet bisat um I think you should still call biscuits you should be
00:25:09
it's the same thing as what was the other word we were talking about as Guillotine it like biscuit and I that's
00:25:14
I call my dog my dog name is biscuit so bis bis or at least bis fancy why not you know think outside the
00:25:22
box I'm just saying think I'm just telling people if you if you take nothing else from affirmative murder
00:25:26
know that hey to think outside the box over there yeah romanticize everyday life exactly you know biset a bisquet
00:25:33
have a nice bisquet some tea yeah um so so these two met while Hamid was recovering in the hospital from an
00:25:40
amputation because at first he lost the leg but then he had to have a couple of amputation surgery to kind of clean it
00:25:44
up and you know all that kind of stuff get it get it where it needed to be um and while he was sitting in the hospital
00:25:49
he met Elizabeth bisquet but not long after meeting Elizabeth filed a complaint against Jan dubie alleging
00:25:56
that he tried to force her into into prostitution so yeah which is horrifying to think about he's just being taken
00:26:04
care of by this because she's like a nurse yeah she comes and checks on the patients yeah and he's trying to force
00:26:09
her into sex work it's like how where did those two things connect how did this happen that's he's down and out and
00:26:16
he's still this evil like that's scary oh that's yeah when somebody's in their darkest time they're still like how can
00:26:20
I manipulate and exploit people like that who really like this person is trying to be nice to you while you're
00:26:28
not even more than half your leg is gone and while they're talking you're like I'm gonna [ __ ] manipulate and just
00:26:34
trick you so bad that's really I'm going try to ruin your life yeah dark wow that's dark sided I'm going I'm going to
00:26:41
Gaslight and destroy your life whether they're just like you need a spongebath can I help you that's a really evil
00:26:46
person that they darkest yeah that's dark sided yeah I tell you what if if if uh Obi-Wan Kenobi
00:26:53
had looked down on Anakin Skywalker while he was all burnt up on that lava mountain and and he said like one day
00:26:59
I'm going to be a Super Evil dude and kill everybody I think he would have killed him at the time he like you have
00:27:04
that pity you're like I'm here to help I'm here to help you you're down on your luck and but if you knew in his mind
00:27:08
he's like oh I'm gonna human traffic you you'd be like oh God like oh [ __ ] that
00:27:13
yeah you're Terri a no yeah so he fell down that classic um tractor accident to sex trafficking Predator pipeline you
00:27:20
know it's an easy one to fall into you know absolutely right we've all heard of Y yada yada sex trafficker that's what
00:27:27
his like that's what his defense tried to use yeah they were like that exact you know how this happens yeah it's like
00:27:34
um I don't know if that was going to work not so much I ruptured my Achilles Like 5 years ago and I was super bummed
00:27:40
out never thought about committing horrible crimes against people though you know what I mean was that little
00:27:45
yeah what did I do I smoked the little weed and I watched Spider-Man into the spiderverse think about that's how you
00:27:50
handle that I'm gonna like make Girl Scouts sell cookies for me without giving them the money to get their
00:27:56
prizes like my brain never cooked up some kind of crazy never got there scheme I was not
00:28:02
scheming so um Jan dub was arrested for um her filing a complaint against him but he was released not long after
00:28:10
because it was a complaint there was nothing nothing criminal to charge him with uh upon his release though Hamid
00:28:16
lured two other young girls to his apartment and forced them into prostitution for his financial benefit
00:28:21
and it's actually really interesting the times uh in France like if if anybody's
00:28:25
seen Mulan Rouge this was the time of The Madam like there was a lot of like brothel and madams and there was one
00:28:32
Madam in particular I I didn't write her name down but she was the most famous Madam and her um her signature was she
00:28:38
would make all of the women that she forced into sex work get plastic surgery like immediately like she would get them
00:28:44
under her control and then get make them have plastic surgery it was like that was like her stamp and this is plastic
00:28:49
surgery in like the 1970s it's not awesome surgeries but it's like you all get it and yeah and so in France this
00:28:56
was a very popular brothel and madams and all these things and so he kind of tried to follow that same pathway but he
00:29:02
was using his apartment and um he he wasn't good at it but he was still a man who was manipulating women he was still
00:29:10
making women be under his control but that was his idea when you he couldn't get a job as a stock boy he's like I'll
00:29:15
become a pimp or whatever you call yeah that in French so like I said Jan dubie is now seeing himself as some kind of a
00:29:21
pimp and his arrogance as a man didn't let him let go of the fact that Elizabeth bis had filed a complain
00:29:28
against him so for the next year he fixated on the fact that she wasn't under his control she didn't fall for
00:29:34
his tricks or lies or whatever and become one of his um uh women or whatever um and they called him um uh
00:29:42
lorett that's the French word for um a sex worker that works yeah at the time like um there's lorett and then there is
00:29:53
what was Satine and Mulan that's why I brought up Mulan R she was a a ctis a cortis ctis is like you work you work
00:29:59
with one specific John and they kind of fund your lifestyle where Lorette is what you think of a sex worker like a a
00:30:06
rotating cast of people that you know so that was a Lorette but a a cortison is more like oh I I have a rich a rich
00:30:13
dignitary takes care of me yeah but but they all work at a a broel form atam it's just different levels of it I guess
00:30:22
um but yeah so he sees himself as as this but he's still you know Elizabeth bisque is in the back of his mind is
00:30:28
this the one that got away the one that tried to put him in prison he can't let it go he fixates on it until July of 19
00:30:35
so scary that he fixated that long yeah he just couldn't let it go oh that's so scary that's yeah that's evil well men
00:30:42
are scary you know and that's one thing as a man in True Crime you don't really as a man not in True Crime if you don't
00:30:49
have conversations with women you don't really know how scary men are when you're a man but when you when you hear
00:30:53
a woman go like oh walking down the street like what men are thinking about like all of these things are like
00:30:59
they're all they all can be dangerous to somebody you know but you never look at
00:31:03
it that way of course a woman's Roman Empire is being killed yeah for sure yeah it's like it's and it's and it's
00:31:10
probably you think by a man like some guy that's your Instagram or go to the gym as them and just some guy just like
00:31:18
I like you now could be anybody those are my feel it's like how you feel doesn't have anything to do with that
00:31:24
right yeah well I followed you to your car cuz I want your number oh yeah Y and that that's fine I don't
00:31:29
want to give it to you but like I want it though that's scary I don't think of that as that's just not an experience
00:31:34
I've had in my life as a in my in my younger years I've had some aggressive women be like well give me your phone
00:31:40
number but I wasn't never like terrified yeah you a weird lady yeah like no you know
00:31:49
and I think that's hard a hard concept for a lot of men to be like why don't you just say no it's like well
00:31:54
intimidation fear you know like it's a lot of things cuz you don't want to piss a man off
00:31:59
yeah and sometimes people do say no and it it doesn't then the bad things happen
00:32:04
faster you know yeah so I mean you can't even really take a walk or a jog alone as a woman anymore like you can't like I
00:32:11
would love to take a jog in the morning like early morning with like music on but I could never do that like my
00:32:17
husband's like absolutely not like you're not going by yourself like if you want to go for a walk your husband has
00:32:22
to go with you he has to come so you can't have like aone time to like just zone out to like music yeah with your
00:32:27
cute pink headphones like that that's I remember telling I told Alvin I went to Myrtle Beach maybe a couple years ago
00:32:33
and it was a we was out mini golfing and there was a young lady went for a jog it
00:32:37
was like maybe like nine o'clock at night she had headphones on I was like oh my
00:32:42
God I it kind of made me scar like that's crazy she's drunking by herself late at night I mean I'm not from mle
00:32:47
Beach but that's still terrifying yeah yeah you're like worried for her right ex be careful I've had we we have had
00:32:54
many conversations where we're just casually talking and we're like um I got the airpod Maxes last year and
00:33:00
I'm like you hit the button and everybody goes away I don't know what's going on I don't know like you have that
00:33:05
conversation like that button is for men yes that's exactly you're like I'm like
00:33:09
I hit this button I you could come hit me in the back of the head with a bat I couldn't know what just we're like but
00:33:15
we're like that's awesome that's so awesome that I have no idea what's going on in my surroundings when I hit this
00:33:19
button I'm like Yellen can you hear me you can't you just see my lips moving awesome I have no idea what's happening
00:33:25
and that's the freedom of a man to be like you could just like turn off your guard yes yes it's so true cuz we have
00:33:32
those two and we were doing that we're like whoa I can't hear you at all and I was like I could never wear these
00:33:36
outside of the house no I would never hit this button if I wasn't in the safety of my home no never even with the
00:33:41
button off I'm like should I be wearing these yeah I'm like I shouldn't wear these outside they're gonna think I
00:33:45
can't hear them um so yeah so like I said um Hamid Jan duie fixated on Elizabeth bisquet
00:33:52
for a year until in 1974 he kidnapped her and brought her to his home my God now his home acting as some kind of
00:33:59
makesh brothel he had the other the other two young ladies were still there they all lived together and he brings
00:34:03
her in to the home he beat Elizabeth in full view of the terrified girls and even went as far as to um put out lit
00:34:11
cigarettes on her body so this was very very like vindictive and evil fightful years I mean days and days of and weeks
00:34:19
of thinking and fixating on her and and he didn't take it he took his time in getting his revenge yeah on her wow yeah
00:34:27
he straight up tortured her yeah really yeah really horrible and also to do it in front of the two other women that
00:34:33
were under the control of his sex trafficking ring was also intentional as well probably trying to prove a point
00:34:38
see what happens absolutely like this will happen to you if you try to go to flex his his muscle a little bit y so
00:34:44
bisquet actually survived the ordeal but after the torture Hamid drove her to the
00:34:49
outskirts of Marseilles another lovely Town beautiful beautiful city and um but he strangled her on the outskirts of
00:34:55
Marseilles um he then returned from the brutal murder and Jen dubie warned the other two girls not to say anything
00:35:01
about what they had seen or else you know that whole imp implications thing there's the intimidation but on July 7th
00:35:09
1974 Elizabeth bis's body was discovered in a shed and the investigation by the police was launched however though Jan
00:35:17
dubie was so arrogant that he moved on from that immediately and not more than a couple of days later he went back out
00:35:22
to try to kidnap another young girl with the intention of forcing her into his sex trafficking rings he was looking to
00:35:27
get a third woman into his sex trafficking ring but the young lady managed to flee probably because she ran
00:35:34
so she got away she gets away and um she filed a police report against the police
00:35:38
and they went and arrested him but they arrested him again for a a complaint basically which is what Elizabeth
00:35:44
bisquet filed against him so he was arrested but during the time that he was in holding they actually brought him up
00:35:49
on charges for the murder of Elizabeth bisquet so thankfully they were able to connect the dots because he was a human
00:35:55
trafficker what his were and then they put that together with how Elizabeth bqu was killed and also read something that
00:36:01
the two women once he was arrested came forward and gave their accounts as well yeah so it was like kind of put it all
00:36:07
together in that moment but thank you know he could have been let out on a whatever the way he was leted out when
00:36:13
you know he threatened Elizabeth bisquet so thankfully he wasn't and thank goodness those other two women were able
00:36:18
to talk about what happened to them because sometimes they break them so hard that they don't even feel like they
00:36:23
can speak out against yeah they probably saw it as like their opportunity like we
00:36:27
have to do this while he's incarcerated yeah yeah exactly that's that I think that's what happened I think they like
00:36:31
this is our moment to to get him yeah so um yeah so after two and a half years of
00:36:36
sitting in prison on February 24th 1977 amid jandie appeared in court on charges
00:36:42
of torture murder rape and premeditated violence his defense as Elena alluded to
00:36:49
was that the tragic loss of two-thirds of his leg drove him to a period of alcohol abuse and violence which
00:36:57
transformed him into a different person and that different person just happened to be a human trafficker and it's like
00:37:03
okay then we're going to imprison that different person that you are today that different person you're going
00:37:13
going to the now yeah cuz plenty of people go through that and don't do what he did like come on that's the shittiest
00:37:21
defense ever it is it's like he lost his leg Yeah to try to [ __ ] uh weaponize mental illness like that to be like I
00:37:28
was going through a time of Darkness exactly and I became a full-blown criminal yeah it's like all right should
00:37:34
be just let free like there's other ways to like deal with your you know not having a job and I'm listen if you go
00:37:41
through a tragic accident and your life has changed forever if I ruptured my achilles in 1977 I would have a limp for
00:37:46
the rest of my life thankfully modern science is you know you can get a surgery and now I can play basketball
00:37:52
again and I can run and everything but if I was now a person who walked different mhm and couldn't work the same
00:37:57
job that I did that would affect me mentally that's no excuse to start absolutely not ruining people's lives
00:38:02
and kidnapping people and stuff saying go to go go to therapy the things that therapy can resolve you'll be amazed by
00:38:10
it's wild any other Outlet than hurting other human beings or yourself yeah anything else yeah you know hurt they
00:38:18
say you know everybody El goes hurt people hurt people like no don't just let's not let's not just normalize that
00:38:23
like exact that's an excuse I know say it like that's a bad thing but hurt people can do other things yeah hurt
00:38:30
people go to therapy that's the 2024 slogan hurt people go to therapy exactly so the very next day um so this would be
00:38:38
February 25th Hamid jandie was sentenced to death like they they heard they heard
00:38:42
all they needed to hear his defense said their [ __ ] that they said they were like you're not wasting time okay yeah
00:38:47
yeah yeah alcohol abuse guilty still guilty they went and deliberated for a cool 45 minutes and uh
00:38:55
they came back with that death uh by guillotine verdict damn and uh after a denied appeal Hamido was also informed
00:39:02
that he would not receive a rep a reprieve from the then president of France so he was but no way he thought
00:39:06
he was like sitting was like oh oh man he was like he's GNA come through I know it if president H can
00:39:16
send if he sends that reprieve I'll be good to go I'll be golden you know and and the president did not do that
00:39:24
n that's not president ha style H does not play like that President H was like no
00:39:33
no no Homie don't play that the one thing about President H he doesn't like guys that do what he did so he was like
00:39:40
he does mess around no reprieve for you he said H uh H said uhuh so um so the president of France
00:39:50
denied a reprieve uh for Hamida and in the early morning of September 10th 1977 12 days before his 28th birthday am
00:39:59
jandu God 28 he was only 27 28 years old so he was W he didn't make it to 28 he was 27 years old 50 years old now this
00:40:08
is a young a young boy I mean by the time he was 20 he was working at the stock place he his injury happened by
00:40:14
the time he was like 23 years old so between 23 and 27 he had a life as a scummy human trafficker he literally my
00:40:21
age he literal be that's crazy and now he's sitting at the Gallows man crazy times being there with a guy holding a a
00:40:28
curtain rod or whatever the string is to drop a [ __ ] a big razor on your neck and they walk you past that wicker
00:40:38
basket that your headless body is going to be placed into like you just you just
00:40:43
Breeze right by it I'm like that to me they said he was like really trying to buy time he smoking cigarettes drinking
00:40:50
they told him like that's enough he was really so many cigarettes yeah in a glass I like I
00:40:58
think he had like three cigarettes in a glass of water and he I don't blame him though I mean like he was taking those R
00:41:03
too he was like I'm going to he was taking those you got a Gillette razor just staring at you and you're like oh
00:41:08
this is the end that last meal oh the last meal you can see and you see somebody like Swing Swing swingp
00:41:14
sharpening the knife is like oh yeah I'll have everything literally everything take me to the buffet like
00:41:21
cuz you think about it and you're like when I finish this cigarette that's the last thing I do that is it or if I take
00:41:29
this last sip that's the last thing I do I would want to be like a little tipsy they they would to fight me they had to
00:41:36
pull that cigarette no I'm not done you got it after the cigarette pull that from me the filter
00:41:45
they spray it they they spray it and put the fire out put it out yeah oh my God oh my God it's so stressful to think
00:41:52
about yeah that's a lot to reconcile oh it's like it's coming to an end yeah and
00:41:55
then yeah like and then like this is the bucket your head was going to fall in and uh so like here's the basket that
00:42:01
will put your headless body in he has white gloves on like this is oh yeah he's real real classy the guy he's a
00:42:06
real classy guy he's got ass G's gloves on he's like and here's your here's your
00:42:10
head basket's clubs cuz I think Eugene Weidman there the guy the last public execution there in uh 39 he when they
00:42:21
walked him out his eyes were closed the whole he didn't want to look at anything
00:42:24
he just squeezed his eyes shut the whole time and I was like oh yeah I would be the same way I don't want to see that I
00:42:30
don't want to look at this I wouldn't either that's where my head is going to fall you bump into the basket they're
00:42:34
like this is a g this is a second generation Guillotine yeah they start taking you through like it's a Winnebago
00:42:39
they're like this is uh Guillotine 2.0 yeah we really streamline things this is a titanium string that it falls from
00:42:46
like this vicious serial killer is reduced into like closing his eyes his eyes shut like a kid like it's just like
00:42:53
I know it for a second I was like a and then I was like wait a second wait a second this guy yeah yeah too many
00:42:58
emotions that part is kind of when you talk about it being the great equalizer yeah when you talk about somebody being
00:43:03
this horrible thing person that did this horrible thing and then them being it brings you right down yeah in that
00:43:08
moment them being scared absolutely it's like no matter who you are or what you did when you see that in the basket and
00:43:13
the thing everybody's the it's the same reaction you know no one's looking at that stoically no it's not happening no
00:43:20
no no no I you know Marie Antonette was so um flustered and and [ __ ] up and scared it was they they killed Mar and
00:43:27
tette for a lot of [ __ ] up reasons it was yeah really [ __ ] up but she apologized to the guy that did the thing
00:43:32
like cuz she stepped on his shoes she was so flustered like she didn't know like you know what what to do she
00:43:39
apologized to him for stepping on the shoes that was her last word like meanwhile you're going to be cutting my
00:43:44
head off in a second but I'm sorry I stepped on your shoes yeah I was like sorry I got scuffed up your shoes on
00:43:49
sorry you just like I who knows what I would say yeah did I leave the pot did I leave the pot on I don't yeah like oh
00:43:56
don't don't don't record that like don't I don't want that laugh it's so gross yeah it's crazy man so um yeah September
00:44:03
10th 1977 12 days before his 28th birthday H jand dubi was guillotined at the bomt prison in Marseilles shortly
00:44:11
after 440 a.m. and like I said there's really like no better City I can think of that to be killed in because it's a
00:44:19
beautiful city you look up pictures of Marse gorgeous but oh really yeah it really a nice sight to see before is
00:44:26
nice like to see when you looking out that window like a I picture like a hunchback in Notre Dame style like I
00:44:30
think every prison in Europe is made of bricks and then they have like bars and you look and you look out and you see
00:44:35
the beautiful coast of Marseilles it's like oh wow for the last time and then and then
00:44:40
they take you off to slice yeah slice your head off now there is some debate as to whether a person is still alive
00:44:47
even briefly after a beheading and um some Physicians have done studies um in the last century that show brain
00:44:54
activity in animals like rats and stuff for like up to 30 seconds so but they say this could be a reaction to the pain
00:45:00
receptors from uh the quick slicing like it could just be the pain receptors reacting as far as blinking and stuff
00:45:06
that people said they seen heads do in baskets this is has been seen in like R people being bit by rattlesnakes that
00:45:11
have been beheaded or like I have a friend um she uh in bombs she she works at a funeral home and she said the dead
00:45:17
bodies they sigh Elena can you they do I can't attest to that that does happen because air will be forced out sometimes
00:45:25
and it'll wow and a a little bit of like a moan will come with it sometimes because it's just like a trapped moment
00:45:32
almost that rocked my spine when she when she told me that that no that's [ __ ] up that'll rock your [ __ ] when
00:45:36
you're alone in a BK luckily I think I'll never find myself in that position so that's terrible and she they warned
00:45:44
me ahead of time of that thankfully because when it happened I was like and I was like okay all right I know what
00:45:49
that is and she said it was like melancholic like it's very much like it is yeah it's a very sad like it's like a
00:45:56
little like you're B is like is there like different tones to like it being a male and female or is just yeah it can
00:46:02
be and it's like different when like different methods of it coming out like sometimes when you cut sometimes the air
00:46:08
just escapes so like it'll just be like a no when you're that that in in that moment oh God certain air will escape in
00:46:17
certain so it's it's interesting W get this over I didn't know that that when you
00:46:24
cut even yeah just like there's certain ways when you're like manipulating a body if there's trapped air somewhere
00:46:30
it's coming out so it is controversial but anyways it is possible that am Jan dubie sat with his head in that basket
00:46:37
reflecting on his life for like 30 seconds before the curtains faded you know those curtains closed and you kind
00:46:42
of hope so that like he was like [ __ ] I shouldn't have done that yeah he sat in
00:46:45
that basket does that last 30 seconds yeah just have a moment of like o regts are they tied up like are they laying
00:46:52
down I think they um you know tie their hands behind their backs or they might be like we got you here man just sit
00:46:58
down on your go on your knees I think they lay like belly down yeah and somebody holds their feet you'd have to
00:47:06
not there's no way I'm like like yeah I'm just GNA like go along with this it's not happening didn't they used to
00:47:13
put like a hood over your head too I think they did for they do it for hangings for hangings because you're
00:47:20
sometimes a little G scary but they might have done it for that cuz then they the head falls in the basket and
00:47:24
then it's head in the you take the bag out your more hgic what is the thing called they lock your headache cuz you
00:47:29
can't cuz that oh that's a stade that's for when you want to be ped with tomatoes yeah when you want those are
00:47:36
for minor crimes that's for like you know um you you uh look you look at a married woman in public yeah they put
00:47:42
you in the stade and throw tomatoes at your face you showed an ankle yeah you yeah you were you were a jezebel yeah
00:47:47
you had your knees out scandalo just get with tomatoes in in the Town Square um but
00:47:55
yes uh that was the story of H jandb and the last time a guillotine was used on a
00:48:00
human being in France and in Western Europe damn that's so wild that's crazy they also used to call it the national
00:48:07
razor no by the way I just saw yeah that's more metal I kind of like really metal we're taking you to the National
00:48:16
razor today I I did look up cuz I always wonder why the razor was at an angle so
00:48:21
he said he do that so it an easy slice because if it was flat It'll like bounce would be breaking of the neck I'm guess
00:48:29
that's that makes sense like I told you in the beginning when we talk about their their methods
00:48:37
they used to just have one guy with an axe yes it was kind of and so it would take a couple of swipes like two three
00:48:43
four swipes and there was even you know everything creates a market right so there were people who were like if you
00:48:49
loved your family member you'd slip the you'd slip the the the um Warden or the guy with the axe some money to use a
00:48:56
sharper axe yeah like you try here's 20 bucks man can you try hard to like really get it in one go because there
00:49:02
were some where it was like they would slip and hit them in the back there was some where they would like they would
00:49:08
slip slip [ __ ] you cuz some of those executioners were just like Get Wrecked drunk and like some of them were like
00:49:16
you know having to deal with doing this all the time so they would show up like just completely wasted and like be so
00:49:22
pissed if mine was drunk Miss completely Miss wow and then sometimes I think the person
00:49:28
who was being executed had to pay the Executioner as they walked up onto the for the service the you cut my head off
00:49:37
please like a lot of um like King Henry VII's uh wives who were murdered that way like handed them like a bag of coins
00:49:45
before beheading tax Hey listen they tax they tax you till it's over man like the
00:49:51
behead pay for everything you got to you got to pay the service you got you got to pay the beheader humiliating too
00:49:56
isn't it like you're paying for this yeah that's that adds a level of humiliation yeah don't tap my pockets
00:50:01
one last time before you slice my head off especially when when it's the guy with the axe I'd much rather face the
00:50:07
guillotine than a guy just named Marcus yeah like all right let's do this with an axe is crazy with an axe and it's dll
00:50:15
and they have to be able to aim correctly and like you said you need that angle yeah you got to really hit a
00:50:21
specific spot like you said a back you get hit in the back with an axe so [ __ ]
00:50:25
what you say my bad yeah sorry about whoopsy da bro sorry hey bro scoot back a little bit sorry about that you
00:50:32
weren't on the mark that was your fault it was your bad that was your fault was your fault like my my spine's my spine's
00:50:38
out you're like no it was on you it was your fault it your fault that was on you
00:50:42
don't that wasn't me yeah it was your fault it was your you flinched you flinched you flinched dude you Flinch
00:50:47
damn FL that's wild and imagine just going home after that like the as the Executioner you're just like all right
00:50:53
you just go home to your family did you make dinner imagine going home after that as the public and being like that
00:50:58
was sick man like that was so I don't want to imagine like truly like people would bring their kids
00:51:06
to those things yeah we've come a long way in a lot of ways but not really as well I don't know about that I remember
00:51:12
when I whenever I watch political shows I'm like whenever we like when we watch stuff like um 300 and stuff and they're
00:51:17
like a dagger in the sleeve and people putting poison in cups and like that stuff's just it's still happening people
00:51:22
are just wearing Tom Ford Suits now yeah it's true true such a long way it's like
00:51:26
I don't know this happened in 1977 yeah really not that long way yeah they're like now it's democracy I'm like
00:51:33
no that stuff just happens behind closed doors what the guillotin yeah no bro Star Wars was out that's like 50 years
00:51:44
not even yeah that is not damn that's like like my mom was born when that one happened
00:51:52
yeah I was born only a few years later like yeah like less than 10 that eight years before your first
00:52:01
spe you just miss the eight years later I came this world I wasn't even a thought
00:52:08
no you weren't you're like yeah you know J you know just just like super young and like
00:52:15
porcelain skin baby I don't claim that though no it's zillennial the elders here
00:52:22
like I'm like and I was like the next year oh my goodness wow what a story but yeah
00:52:29
Hamid jand dubie and the guillotine what a story thank you for telling us that thank you guys for listening I really
00:52:36
that horrifying tale thank you for bringing that beautiful beautiful tale our way that was a wild one right yeah
00:52:42
that was crazy it really was and he was I mean he was evil also I I can I just take a second before we go can I give
00:52:49
you guys your flowers uh really quick because you guys had Holly Madison on your podcast a couple times and
00:52:55
um I love her story and who she is and I just when I think about my youth and what TV was in the early 2000s and how
00:53:03
women were exploited so crazy like everything about the early 2000s was like um pixelated mouths and pixelated
00:53:09
bodies and you know Anna Nicole Smith and Holly Madison and all you know all these people who who imagine what Anna
00:53:16
Nicole Smith podcast would be today she's probably such an interesting and amazing person but she was like
00:53:21
exploited by the powers of that be at the time of what they thought people wanted to from reality television and to
00:53:27
hear her go on on your platform and tell a story and just be like a a person I hate to I don't mean to say it in a like
00:53:32
a massyn way but like to see her get to be a person is like was like really cool
00:53:38
because I only know her from The Girls Next Door show and and yeah to get to be like her own person exactly and she's
00:53:44
such an interesting person her and Bridget are so sweet so smart so sweet so smart so interesting so like
00:53:54
multifaceted so kind I love them they're just like and it's like I want everybody
00:53:58
to know that like they're so amazing yeah like they are not just from the girls next door cuz I used to love that
00:54:04
show when I was younger like same we used to watch it and now you watch it so different you're like that was not
00:54:10
entertaining like damn that was dark no but thank you it's like she's amazing I highly recommend and Girls
00:54:19
Next Level their podcast is so interesting to listen to yes I just want I just wanted to give you guys I just
00:54:24
want shout you guys out cuz I thought that was really Co oh thank you thank you well everybody you need to go listen
00:54:31
to affirmative murder I'm telling you we don't recommend things lightly here you
00:54:35
know that so go run over and Gobble up that feed because you just heard the storytelling ability it's chef's kiss
00:54:43
everything you need and if you guys want to like shout out anything you have coming up any of your socials anything
00:54:49
you want to shout out um just affirmative murder Fran is uh taking up DJing so you might be a to see maybe get
00:54:57
a resid they're getting they're giving out residencies in Vegas like hot cakes these
00:55:01
days I'm trying to get one you might you might catch Vegas spend spending some records in in Vegas this summer but
00:55:08
other than that affirmative murder you can catch us on all the social media platforms uh and chat chat it up we're
00:55:14
we're on there talking it up with people and all that kind of good stuff um affirmative murders every Thursday and
00:55:18
we also do a a listener tale St style thing on Mondays where we our listeners send us in crazy stories from their home
00:55:25
and stuff like that so those are Monday and yeah affirmative murder check us out
00:55:28
if You' like hell yeah they no you don't have a choice do it do it keep it that weird all right guys so go listen to
00:55:37
affirmative murder and we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird don't listen to a
00:55:47
I was going to say affirmative murder but I stumbled we we kind of did that oh man
00:55:57
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