00:00:06
hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elena and this right here you [ __ ] is morbid you [ __ ] it's
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[Music] morbid it's Valentine's day it is sounded pissed about that I'm not it's
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[ __ ] Valentine's Day it's Valentine's Day yeah no I'm I'm happy about the the Valentine's Day of it all I love
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Valentine's Day not because like we do anything really no we're not like we'll do like a little something like I woke
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up to a cute little like array on the counter this morning oh see that's cute yeah we don't always honestly I I got to
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like be real here Drew is a lot better at Valentine's day than I am like I I usually wake up to something and then
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I'm like oh [ __ ] I didn't I'm going to like run out later and get you like discount candy I don't know why I said
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candy like that but this year I did really [ __ ] good hell yeah I went a little I went I like ued the atie this
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year see John and I usually like go really hard to like make the kids like a cute little Valentine's thing I feel
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like when you have kids it becomes more about like the holiday and it become it becomes like super fun again CU like it
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becomes like super kid again and that's always fun I know the magic of all the holidays like obviously like Christmas
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is like insane when you have kids but even just like Valentine's Day and St Patrick's Day even yeah like we so I
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always um like our bathroom that they brush their teeth in that's like essentially like you know the kid
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bathroom yeah it like cuz they've demolished it oh did you decorate it I decorate it for all the holidays so like
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I'll and I don't go like you know it's not like I go nuts like I just get stuff like some little banners and like you
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know sometimes I'll throw like a balloon in there if I like the dollar section has a lot of
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cool stuff so like it's super easy to be able to do it or like Michaels has a lot
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of stuff in case you guys are thinking I want to do it yep the little things are
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what I literally just put a banner up that says be mine and some of this like tinsel like this like red tinsel cute
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and then I think I had like a little heart uh like stuffed animal on the counter I love that and just in their
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bathroom so we do it for like everything like we try to like just throw like a little Banner in their bathroom just to
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make like the morning exciting when they brush their teeth I like St Patrick's Day when you put Green dyee in the
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toilet and you see the leprechaun peed and they FL they [ __ ] love that I'm I'm colling that when I have it's so
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easy and it's they love it yeah and we do like you know we do uh leprechaun toast for that like where we just put
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like Lucky Charms and like frosting on toast so they could have like a wild ass breakfast that's the [ __ ] I can't wait
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for it's fun and then like I stayed up until uh 2: a.m. last night um making cuz I got a cricket this [ __ ] is a
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cricket Inus Enthusiast it is fun as [ __ ] when you figure out how to do it it is so satisfying and so I stayed up
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until 2:00 a.m. I found they had like the girls already had like plain pink shirts like long sleeve shirts that they
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never really like grab or they're just sitting in their drawer and I was like oo I can bedazzle these let me make this
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a shirt you want to wear sat up until 2: a.m. making them little Valentine's Day
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shirts and they were psych this morning a so it was like and then then I made their lunches all like uh heart themed
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like I got the little heart cut like Cutters for their sandwiches and they make them like into uncrustable so
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they'll like seal off the sandwich it's they're really cool you can find them on
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like anywhere really I [ __ ] so heavy with an uncrustable and it's fun to make your own cuz you can make in different
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shapes and stuff yeah you can put whatever want it just makes like a fun lunch and then like I just got some like
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heart- shaped [ __ ] and like pink stuff and all that did you cut the strawberries into little heart shapes no
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I didn't do that this morning cuz I did a trail mix instead of strawberries today but it was like a pink themed
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trail mix hell yeah brother yeah it was fun let's go it's a lot of fun and then John usually and I always forget he'll
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get me flowers oh yeah course A lot of times like he'll have them delivered and then I end up forgetting and being like
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oh we don't cuz we're always like we don't do anything I know like why'd you do that and he's like I have to no it's
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relatable yeah I feel like you know you just do what you can you do what you can
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I got Dre like a random Lego set so I love that big into Lego so I'm like any occasion I'll just get your [ __ ] Lego
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set yeah usually it's just as you get older and as you like kids come into the picture or even if they don't I feel
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like it just becomes one of those like it's a nice day yeah it's just fun yeah I want to get one of those um Dunkin
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Donuts donuts today that has the brownie batter in the middle oh [ __ ] yeah why
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didn't we get those cuz I got I'm getting something delivered I already ordered it what she just she just raised her
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eyebrows at me and Mikey and Mikey is shimmying right now which is exciting did you just see the full mobility in my
00:04:55
eyebrows they move now guys I stopped getting I stopped getting it I'm I'm in recovery from from Botox yeah you're
00:05:04
you're I love your face thank you that's so nice I'm working on loving it too you
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should I should um but yeah I ordered some kumble cookies Oh yay and they're all fun Valentine's Day I'm excited
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there's one that's like a strawberry cake oh [ __ ] on the it's like you know when you get a cupcake and you like rip
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the bottom off and you make it a sandwich it's like that yeah I love that yeah hell yeah well we have you know
00:05:30
that this is an exciting day and [ __ ] it's been an exciting week or two yeah so I'm I'm I'm without words what's
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happening this week retweet so the last episode you guys probably noticed that Andrew McMahon was on the show [ __ ]
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wild Andrew McMahon from Something Corporate Jack mannequin Andrew McMahon in the wilderness all of the above you
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know posters when I was 16 in my room yes those as well uh I have a Something Corporate tattoo is my first tattoo I
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ever got uh he came here to the stew like he came he's I we had such a blast with him like he flew from California
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here um we went out like we went out to dinner we got to hang at the studio like
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he was amazing sh out to Andrew I know like immediately I was like wow I do feel like I've known you since I was 16
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you kind of have and I've known him since I was six for going by that logic yeah it was great and it was it was very
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funny because like um he was telling us that he listens to the show so like hopefully you're listening now hi Andrew
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because it was very like surreal to me oh yeah to cuz I was such a big like something corporate fan when I was
00:06:43
younger and I still am and Jax Manakin Andrew McMahon in the wilderness and it's funny that like to be in that phase
00:06:51
of life and then to sit with him and talk about being parents together yeah is like surreal in a way can't describe
00:07:00
like 16-year-old Elena if you told her you're going to sit in your house or at dinner with Andrew McMahon and talk
00:07:06
about parent [ __ ] together I'd be like what are you talking about like what what cannot compute like what are you
00:07:14
talking about it was just it was really lovely and he was lovely and it was a great experience it was a fun episode a
00:07:21
very fun episode we talked about dancing plagues if you haven't listened to it go
00:07:24
check it out it's you know it's interview and it's also we talk about some like funny like and crazy dancing
00:07:30
plagues of history and he did the interview he had great biting NS answers oh absolutely it's a great episode
00:07:36
biting nuns and we talk about [ __ ] the devil a lot so you should definitely listen to it you know like a regular
00:07:41
episode regular episode doing butt stuff with the devil or [ __ ] the devil so that was [ __ ] amazing and I hope you
00:07:48
guys enjoy that episode a lot and you know hopefully someday we have him back on because it was a blast yes and we
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forgot to have him sign Andrew if you're listening we do have to come back we forgot to have you sign our hand you
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know if guys not our hands but the he's like no thank you he's like I think I'll
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I'll not come back the hands that we have people sign when they come into the office if you guys have seen the movie
00:08:10
talk to me which if you haven't go watch it cuz it's an Australian film horror film and it's [ __ ] brilliant a24
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right I think it is yeah is it yeah yeah it is right I was like wait uh there's a
00:08:21
hand in it that is like a main plot device of the movie and we have the hand in the office and we've been having
00:08:28
people sign it like we had sign it when she came uh and we were going to have Andrew sign it cuz we're trying to have
00:08:34
all our guests sign it and we forgot so now you have to come back so we'll we'll
00:08:39
have Choice we'll have our people call your people U so that happened that was amazing and then we have another amazing
00:08:46
thing happening you guys are getting a bonus episode yes this week in fact tomorrow it's coming out wide to
00:08:56
everybody uh wide and isn't it wide and it's a simultaneous release so it's everyone's getting it at the same time
00:09:03
it's a bonus episode on top of our two episodes Happy Valentine's Day happy [ __ ] Valentine's Day because guys
00:09:09
well I guess it'll be later but this is a [ __ ] Banger of an episode I'm it's going to be we haven't actually recorded
00:09:17
it yet so it's going to be really interesting to see if Elena's alive afterwards yeah you're going to have to
00:09:22
see if I survive this one because that's all we can say I'm very excited to record it we're going to be recording it
00:09:28
in the next few days and it's a big deal so like be on the lookout if you're listening to this
00:09:38
episode right now set an alarm know that tomorrow in the future theut tomorrow a
00:09:46
banger of an episode is being released to everybody as a bonus big things are happening it's our our gift to you and
00:09:53
also a gift to me when they say treat yourself elen went I treated myself when bigger went
00:10:00
home she did not go home yeah I did not I went big it's wild so on the lookout for that it's very exciting very awesome
00:10:09
this has been a week that I can't quite grasp I don't think you ever will no I think that's all of our bid nasty yeah I
00:10:16
think so AKA business bid nasty yeah and with that we'll get into this let's go it was a very exciting intro and super
00:10:26
happy we're like oh my God it's Valentine's Day this is a story about two lovers um it's not happy or
00:10:34
celebratory or any of the above but it no one expected that I think yeah I would hope not you came to the wrong
00:10:40
place if that's what you were looking for um it is an interesting story and it I'll tell you up at the top it's going
00:10:45
to be two parts um part one is definitely going to be a little bit longer than part two because there's a
00:10:49
lot of kind of setup that we have to get through okay um so this is going to be titled if you're uh listening Jee Harris
00:10:58
and the murder of Herman tarau so we're going to start with Jean first Jean was Jean struven was her
00:11:04
maiden name she was born April 27th 1923 she was the second of four children born
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to Albert and Mildred struven struven isn't that a fun last name like that stren yeah from her early age she felt
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like she could never really live up to the high standard of her older sister Mary Margaret who was described as the
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family's good girl Mary Margaret just seems like a good girl name she's got to be
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despite feeling like the underdog a lot of times Jean did remember her early life fondly Albert and Mildred raised
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the family in Cleveland Ohio and they were definitely wealthier than most families at the time they had a maid a
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laundress the kids all went to private school oh damn yeah they were doing well in 1983 Jean said I was raised by my
00:11:49
mother but my father was almost never home which is sad that is sad and while she looked back on most of her memories
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from childhood with a certain fondness it wasn't without its traumas her dad Albert by all accounts was a very
00:12:02
brilliant very successful man but he also was remembered by most as a quote Champion Tyrant bigot and snob oh so
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like not somebody I want to hang out with I was going to say none of those things sound good at all but but go off
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but successful I guess uh yeah that's usually the case his temper was Notorious and bouts of anger rage were
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set off by by very minor inconveniences which is not great when you have children cuz I'm sure that comes with a
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lot of inconveniences I also think that's such like like get it together yeah whenever adults like go off the
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handle at the smallest thing I'm like I don't know children can figure it out so
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why can't you like I we don't tolerate that from children so I don't know why we're tolerating it from adults and as a
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parent your kind of entire job is to teach kids not to do that so how are you going to teach them not to do that when
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you're doing it yourself yeah just like figure out emotional regulation man yeah
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it sounds very the time though oh for sure very a father of the time very of the time yeah shortly before her dad
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died in 1980 Jean put it pretty simply when she said my father should not have had any children that's so sad it is
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especially as his child saying that yeah she did love him she admired his intelligence but she also recognized
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that he was a very unhappy man and a lot of his anger and temper came from basically like taking out his own
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disappointments on other people like his his feelings of unfulfillment kind of thing yes exactly one of Jean's oldest
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friends said I think Jean admired her father very much and she also hated his guts he was cold ever complaining
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impossible to please autocratic and nasty it's so sad that like like children just Auto like have this
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natural thing of loving their parents even when their parents are like it's so awful to them you know what I mean like
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it's it's like it's almost sad CU like you have to learn I think sometimes to unlove your parents for your own
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I can peace of mind like wellbeing that was a deep statement it was a little bit
00:14:04
deep you know and relatable but yeah anyway the home environment in general mostly thanks to Albert was one of
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constant competition because he set his kids up against each other and just tension because he was always angry yeah
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the only one of his kids who he seemed to approve of was Mary Margaret ah she was the oldest and like I said earlier
00:14:24
Jean just could never measure up to her no matter how hard she tried which is really sad hate that idea of kids like
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trying to measure up to each other in a you should all be equal and you should be loved your own thing yeah like you're
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your own entity and we love you because of that that should be the message but this type of environment was probably
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where Jean developed some of her worst and what would become most harmful instincts especially when it came to
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pleasing men yeah I mean things like that are set up in child she's being programmed to yeah that's her whole life
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is trying to please a man mhm but at the same time she also developed veled more
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positive perspectives especially from her mom when she was young I love this her mom would tell her a curtsy doesn't
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mean one dog on thing I want you to always look people in the eye and tell them the truth measure people from the
00:15:10
neck up Jean yeah [ __ ] she sounds like a bad [ __ ] I love that that I think that quote is [ __ ] great damn yeah
00:15:20
you measure people from the neck up a curtsy don't mean one dog on thing that's badass I like that I love dog on
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no not one dog on thing Noe so while her father was um pretty terrible overall Jean's mother was Stern but in a
00:15:33
different way and she could learn a lot from her and it was from milden that she
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learned to treat others with respect and kindness and to actually value things like intelligence and talent over just
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money and social status I love that they had money and they had social status but
00:15:47
her mom was like these these are important things but intelligence and kindness and respect going to take you
00:15:54
far are more important yeah so for the rest of her life these two very enormous INF uences would be at War inside of
00:16:01
Jean and play a pretty critical role in her adult life yeah cuz they're very like uh conflicting very conflicting
00:16:07
ideals yeah in elementary school for example she studied hard she did really well but she never wanted to let her
00:16:12
intelligence be seen as a bad thing but the lessons that she learned from her parents that helped her succeed
00:16:18
academically kind of became a hindrance when it came to making friends she was smart she was very pretty very
00:16:24
well-liked to a degree but there was also distance between her and her peers one classmate who seems like a very
00:16:31
surface level individual were called I never could be fond of Jean because she wasn't interested in clothes styles all
00:16:37
the giggle dumb things that we used to do and boys she hardly seemed to care about them at all it's like okay first
00:16:44
of all not everyone is attracted to the opposite sex Jee was but like that's a weird thing to go off it's just like
00:16:50
that I don't know if that really should be part of your and like entire personality style like like your
00:16:55
likability is based on whether you're like obsessing over boys and your like makeup and [ __ ] it's like uhoh
00:17:03
good luck with that damn school though quickly became Jean's Refuge where because there she got the approval and
00:17:09
praise that she was really craving from her father yeah but never got later she would say I loved school I loved having
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a star on my forehead when I was little I loved sitting in the sun room of our big house and doing my homework and I
00:17:21
loved my teachers oh which really tells you that like she got everything she needed there and then going home like
00:17:30
creped that which which also kudos to those teachers hell yeah we love te teachers but she threw herself into
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academics and extracurriculars she joined as many clubs as she possibly could attended as many school events as
00:17:42
she was able to mostly as a means of avoiding her dad yeah but ultimately she built up a really impressive resume by
00:17:48
the time she graduated high school good for yeah I have no idea what this case is by the way so I am just like fully
00:17:56
riding this way I literally don't know what happens never heard of this yeah just putting that out there so if I'm
00:18:02
sitting here being like good for her I don't know if she does something later I don't know what happens well it's very
00:18:08
you know like it's like when we say you can be sad for the child or you can you can say good for her for who she was at
00:18:14
one point before all whatever happens happen I will Jean lost her way okay but it's a lot more complicated than that
00:18:20
okay it's this is a very layered story I ultimately don't agree with what she does ever um but there's a lot of layers
00:18:30
to it there's a lot of layers to it this is not there's a lot of gray area in the
00:18:34
story yeah I just wanted to be clear that I'm like I don't know what no honestly good you say that at the top no
00:18:40
no one think I'm like praising someone that I know what they did no and well and right now you're praising her for
00:18:44
the good things that she did that's all you know and when we get when we get to the we're going to get to a part and I
00:18:50
think you and I are going to feel well and I think you and I are going to have very similar uh opinions okay there's a
00:18:57
there's a fall from Humanity oh wow yeah so after but we're not there yet after her graduation in 1941 Jee enrolled at
00:19:05
the Smith college in Massachusetts oh [ __ ] she studied economics there and she
00:19:08
actually minored in Spanish damn uh like her High School experience she threw herself into those studies completely in
00:19:14
her free time she sang in the Glee Club and she joined the water ballet team water is that just like a I think it's
00:19:22
ball the water I don't know thing probably probably I didn't know water ballet was a thing sounds beautiful but
00:19:28
now that I think of it is that at the Olympics synchronized swimming synchronized swimming I I could be wrong
00:19:34
maybe it is called water ballet artistic swimming so yeah I think it used to be called synchronized swimming yeah but I
00:19:42
think artistic swimming sounds better for sure it definitely does it's definitely more what it is when I guess
00:19:46
you could probably do it solo yeah cuz then technically it wouldn't have to be synchronized yeah so look at us we
00:19:52
really worked through that there look at us we logicked our way through but while
00:19:56
she wasn't engrossed in her school work she spent her time writing to her boyfriend Jim Harris who she'd started
00:20:01
dating while she was still in high school after graduation Jim went and joined the Naval Air Corp and was
00:20:07
stationed in the South Pacific so they really stayed in touch primarily through letters and toward the end of Jean's
00:20:12
junior year at Smith Jim got leave and arrived on the Smith campus to surprise Jean and asked her to marry him once the
00:20:19
war was over wow which is so romantic that does sound very romantic it's very shortlived oh no but she happily agreed
00:20:27
in 1946 when she was 23 they did finally get married and they settled down in uh
00:20:32
Michigan Jim's parents were thrilled to add a daughter-in-law to the family they
00:20:36
loved Jean but Jean's father could not have been any more disappointed in fact he made zero zilch null attempt to hide
00:20:47
oh no he was outright with the fact that he did not like this guy uhoh according
00:20:51
to journalist Shaina Alexander Albert was Furious he warned Jean that she was throwing her life away he was certain
00:20:57
Jim Harris was not good enough for her and he made sure that Jim too knew how he felt oh boy which is shitty well it's
00:21:04
also hard because he spent a lot of time her life basically making her feel she's
00:21:09
not good enough for him and now he's saying this this guy isn't good enough for you and she's like I thought you
00:21:15
didn't to give a [ __ ] about me she's like what do you mean like where's my standing here right yeah it's just a
00:21:21
conflicting message well and it's also just it's kind of a continued message of like nothing you ever do is good enough
00:21:27
you can't even pick a guy right yeah it wasn't only that Albert disliked Jim Harris but he actually thought the
00:21:32
entire Harris family were ignorant fools damn mostly because of their Progressive
00:21:37
political opinions and support of the Roosevelt administration damn tells you a lot damn damn damn the damn damn
00:21:47
whether or not Jean was throwing her life away was obviously a matter of opinion but in hindsight she did
00:21:52
recognized that her marriage had a lot less to do with love than it did uh with Defiance of her father she she wanted to
00:21:59
go against she liked that it was bothering her yeah she said when I got married I had no conception of Love
00:22:04
defying dad was the main reason I married Jim also unlike dad he was very quiet which is kind of a baller
00:22:12
statement she's like again I say d she's like listen my dad sucked he didn't like
00:22:17
this guy this guy's quiet I can do what I want this guy is quiet this guy's quiet this guy shuts his [ __ ] mouth
00:22:23
he's going to let me live I appreciate that about him and I love that she's like unlike my loud ass naie
00:22:28
[ __ ] of a dad this guy's quiet this guy shuts the [ __ ] up wow yeah so obviously in the 1940s women didn't have
00:22:37
a ton of options for Independence so if Jean wanted to get away from her dad and
00:22:41
her family home which she very much did marriage was the easiest and the fastest
00:22:45
way to do that for sure and at the very least she did choose somebody who treated her with kindness and was
00:22:51
entirely predictable okay yeah it's a safe life yeah to those who knew her well though Jean's marriage to Jim
00:22:58
didn't make any [ __ ] sense she was very smart she was an independent woman we know she loved the art she loved
00:23:04
culture she was the ultimate conversationalist she was passionate she had a lot of Big Dreams Jim had smaller
00:23:11
Ambitions and he didn't seem to want a lot out of life he was he was a simple guy yeah you know yeah he's just Jim
00:23:19
well people are different we all want different things out of life it doesn't make him a bad guy for not no for not
00:23:24
like you know for just wanting a simple home life you know yeah whatever fulfills him yeah Je friend Leslie
00:23:29
McDougall recalled she was desperate to marry Jim Harris I never understood it he was a little man in every way Jean
00:23:35
had intellect she was brainy everything she got into she did well he loved to putter to trim the Hedge as she got more
00:23:42
interesting he got duller oh and in the notes Dave wrote damn what a Savage read
00:23:49
I was dying honestly yeah yeah Chin Chin that is like [ __ ] I was like after the
00:23:56
wedding though Jean settled into married life life and she was determined to be the perfect housewife but she also
00:24:01
wanted to keep her regular job uh which was she was a teacher at Gross Point Country Day School and she also found
00:24:07
the time to keep a spotless home she cooked all the meals she kept up with all her appearances that she needed to
00:24:13
do she was doing doing it all yeah now while the schedule was uh without a doubt exhausting very taxing it was
00:24:21
important to Jean that she apply her training and her intellect to a job that she saw as valuable and to her there was
00:24:27
nothing more valuable than helping to mold the minds of children she loved teaching oh I love that and she loved
00:24:32
being a part of kids lives well and it sounds like she had so many like influential teachers in her life you can
00:24:40
tell when a kid has great teachers because they immediately are like I want to be a teacher because they see what
00:24:46
happens MH exactly my kids have like this [ __ ] like the uh older girls have an amazing [ __ ] teacher oh she's
00:24:54
a queen she's a godamn queen I wish we could like literally say her name but we I would love to say her name just
00:25:00
because she's so amazing but she's she's amazing and they one of my kids is like
00:25:05
I want to be a teacher like bu I love that and it's like that's a sign you've done the right thing yeah I also teach
00:25:15
you're one who says that would be the best teacher ever oh my God yes she's so patient and sweet especially with like
00:25:23
be amaz hour also if you're looking for anybody to follow on Tik Tok we haven't done a Tik Tok follow like go Mr Mr
00:25:29
Williams on Tik Tok his name is tell Williams we love Mr Williams with our entire heart and soul he is a [ __ ]
00:25:37
phenomenal follower yeah follower follow and and he's a preschool teacher and also a therapist yeah and he does it all
00:25:46
he does it all he really does he also does savage reads he does savage reads he's hilarious I remember watching him
00:25:52
in the beginning of Tik Tok and being like I want him to be my child's preschool teacher like he was he's so
00:25:57
good and you can tell he cares so much prek pause prek pause he always starts with that uh go follow him cuz he
00:26:04
deserves all the follows he he's Mr Williams on Tik Tok and you will not regret it you will not he's hilarious
00:26:11
even if you don't have kids great follow exactly he's a great follow no matter what yeah well back to Jean her domestic
00:26:17
responsibilities increased a year or two later when Jim's newly widowed father moved in with them Jean really loved her
00:26:23
father-in-law and she never complained about living with him but according to several Neighbors Albert Harris expected
00:26:29
to be treated as a guest in the house rather than an occupant who contributed to the work of a running home ah which
00:26:35
you know what you live that long you lose your wife your kids's got to take care of you at some point at this point
00:26:41
he's probably like you know what [ __ ] it like treat me like a guest I get to a
00:26:45
certain age and I've raised you all up you know yeah you you treat me like a guest yeah come on but also it doesn't
00:26:51
sound like Jim was like really doing a lot and it's his dad so that's a little tough yeah but the workload increased
00:26:58
again 2 years later in 1950 when Jean gave birth to their first child David and then a couple years later a second
00:27:05
child Jimmy so they had their hands full yeah the expectations of motherhood were
00:27:09
made even more stressful by Jean's postpartum depression after Jimmy's birth and remember this was not a time
00:27:17
even now I feel like we don't have a full understanding of postpartum depression truly picture it in the
00:27:22
1950s that that sounds nightmarish they'd give you like some meth about it yeah that's a that's a night marish
00:27:29
scenario in the 1950s it's sad so a lot of times Jean found herself crying over what most people would consider very
00:27:36
small things or no reason at all like she didn't know why she was crying she just was oh that sounds awful it's very
00:27:42
sad but fortunately her postpartum didn't last super long but even after it passed friends did notice changes to her
00:27:49
behavior I think it left it you wonder what yeah it probably leaves some kind of Mark I I fortunately did not go
00:27:54
through it I I know people who did though and I can't if you're going through I'm really sorry yeah you you'll
00:27:59
get on the other side I promise it's one of my biggest fears like when I do end up having kids well people don't take it
00:28:05
like I feel like it doesn't get taken seriously a lot no when you try to get help for it it's scary it's very scary
00:28:11
yeah but one friend said she made it uh such an enormous effort but she was extremely volatile we had a cup of tea
00:28:18
together every single day and I never knew whether I'd find a happy woman a sad woman or an angry woman o that's
00:28:23
tough so it sounds like I I think I shouldn't have said that it didn't last very long because I really don't think
00:28:29
there's a way of measuring how long she was going through it I think she might have just got better at managing it I
00:28:34
was maybe she was just pushing it to the side but it was still affecting her in her daily life but although she never
00:28:40
hesitated to join the PTA or engage with neighbors and parents of her kids classmates her ability to integrate with
00:28:46
others did remain somewhat of a problem into her adulthood okay at the time Gross Point where she was uh living and
00:28:52
teaching it's a suburb of Detroit was home to some of the automotive Industries wealthiest families and there
00:28:59
was a very rigid social hierarchy that was all based on wealth of course as a school teacher and the wife of a middle
00:29:07
class husband she never really cared about material things and since her childhood she actually really tried to
00:29:13
find Value outside of monetary terms yeah but because of the way that everything worked she was a little bit
00:29:20
of an outcast among everybody else that makes sense yeah and she really struggled to make strong connections
00:29:25
because of that that's rough in the early 60s Jean's dissatisfaction with her life was becoming even more apparent
00:29:31
to those around her her friend her friend Bob scripts recalled Jean did not lead a very exciting life here her
00:29:37
marriage to Jim was a real drag he was a genuine tightwad and very conservative really a man of no imagination whereas
00:29:44
Jean had so much WoW everybody's really reading that's the thing I'm like I couldn't find anything to like outright
00:29:51
say that Jim was an [ __ ] so I'm just like it just sounds like he was kind of like a he was just kind of like a plain
00:29:56
Jane a plain gym you know yeah a plain gy yeah just just VI to his own beat I'm like wow nobody likes you nobody thought
00:30:03
you were interesting like that's rough that's sad I know I feel I feel a little bad for Jim yeah did does Jim do
00:30:09
anything that I shouldn't feel bad for him no okay cool not that I know I didn't I couldn't find it that's the
00:30:14
thing I couldn't find anything that I could call him like truly negative like like he's abusive or something like that
00:30:19
no it doesn't sound like it like by the sounds of it I'm just like you know don't care when everybody else thinks
00:30:26
Jim you know I feel like he needs like a high five I want Burger I'm like come on
00:30:31
let's let's you be happy with you Jim okay I want to take Jim to a theme park and be like let's find a little
00:30:36
excitement here I'm like you know what Jim like there's these things called booknook that you can make I think you
00:30:41
would love them here you go you sit down he strikes me as somebody love booknook
00:30:45
the very minimal amount I know about Jim I think he would [ __ ] heavy with a booknook yeah and I'm saying that as
00:30:50
somebody who [ __ ] loves book notes I sit down and do them at night so love that's not a read on book notes no it's
00:30:56
not I got Elena multiple book Nooks for her birthday hell yeah but uh by then by
00:31:01
that point Jean had started taking courses in a master's program where she was finding a lot of purpose but when
00:31:06
she thought about her future as a housewife and a mother in Gross Point that idea became increasingly
00:31:11
unsustainable she was finding a lot of purpose kind of like pouring into her own cup yeah but I think she kind of
00:31:19
like took a little like a scope out and was like I don't know if this is gonna if this is gonna last like yeah so her
00:31:26
life with Jim didn't exactly end it kind of just fizzled out there wasn't a lot of drama there wasn't a lot of anger
00:31:33
everything just fizzled it just kind of was like this isn't going to be forever yeah all right by 1964 she came to the
00:31:40
conclusion that she did not want to be married anymore and she reached out to her friend and lawyer jeepa Sherman I
00:31:45
think it is who helped her navigate obviously a pretty complex divorce process at that time yeah Sherman said
00:31:51
some people should never marry and Jean is one of them she's a superior person and there are not too many suitable
00:31:57
matches for a person like that jeez I know people are really talking her up they they do yeah so Jean and Jim's Mar
00:32:04
uh Jim Harris's marriage officially came to an end in 1965 and while it wasn't the most amical
00:32:10
divorce in the world I don't really know if there are many there are few I feel yeah Jean said Jean was said to navigate
00:32:16
it with a remarkable Grace her lawyer said she was never accusatory about Jim Harris everyone knew what he was he was
00:32:22
never guilty of false advertising about himself but jean would never say a word against him she was an admirable client
00:32:28
in a real rotten divorce so it all and in that sense it like it seems like he wasn't a bad guy it just wasn't going to
00:32:36
work and maybe he didn't want to divorce so it probably got kind of gnarly then messy yeah but it's like when she won't
00:32:43
even say like a bad thing about the guy it's like yeah feels like he just wasn't
00:32:47
a bad guy it just didn't really work yeah they just weren't meant to be I don't think they were meant to be no it
00:32:53
doesn't sound like that and like obviously there are relationships where like it's your high school sweetheart
00:32:57
and works out but like for sure not all the time but it's a tough one and the older you get and the more life changes
00:33:03
you you change a little bit with it yeah yeah but by that point everybody could see how unhappy Jean was in her life so
00:33:10
when it came to an end to the divorce and the marriage everybody was rooting for her yeah so after leaving uh gym
00:33:16
Jean and the kids moved in with one of her close friends Dodie Blaine she needed to move in with a friend to make
00:33:21
it for a while and Dodie had also gone through a divorce around the same time so they spent a lot of time reflecting
00:33:27
on And discussing what had gone wrong in their respective marriages and they both
00:33:31
reasonably concluded that they had just simply chosen the wrong man which I'm sure a lot of people who get divorced
00:33:37
can relate to but this of course led to the question if their respective ex-husbands were the wrong man then who
00:33:43
was the right man who is he who's the right man who's this man's for me Well jean had given this matter a great deal
00:33:50
of thought oh had she and she said her answer was very simple she said very probably he was a Jewish doctor I I like
00:33:57
that she's just like I know I know who the right man for me is it's giving Charlotte it is Charlotte York from sex
00:34:03
city absolutely it is during one of their many talks Jee told Dodie being Jewish he'd be a man of superior
00:34:09
intelligence and education and that his quote semetic background would also make
00:34:13
him warmhearted and passionate yet protective she said Jewish husbands really take care of their women wow she
00:34:19
really thought this went through she did yeah I like it so her desire to find the
00:34:22
right man might have fueled her fantasies but she never let it interfere with the responsibilities of her real
00:34:28
life after the divorce she felt a lot of guilt for disrupting her two sons lives
00:34:33
and she tried every chance she could to make it up to them she wanted to make sure that they had the best of the best
00:34:39
and that they would have a great start to their adult lives once they were done with high school for yeah she seemed
00:34:45
like a good mom it's good to hear that yeah for a lot of women in her position it was possible to rely on your their
00:34:50
parents for help and raising kids as a single parent yeah but not the case with Jean Albert her father seemed have uh
00:34:58
about as much fondness for his grandsons as he did for their father and quote flatly refused to contribute to the cost
00:35:04
of their education this is their maternal grandfather and I'm sorry I think about how rad it must be to be a
00:35:14
grandparent all the time all the time because like I love being a parent yeah like it's fun it's obviously it's like
00:35:23
hard but well that's it's so [ __ ] fun but when when you're a grandparent you don't even have the hard stuff it's
00:35:29
being a parent without any of the responsibilities so it's just really like you know I which I guess there's
00:35:35
your answer right there it's like if you like being a parent my goodness you're going to love being a grandparent cuz it
00:35:40
takes away any of the stress that you even were fine with but it doesn't sound like he loves he did not like being a
00:35:45
parent and it's like but it's like damn it sounds so fun what do you mean I think it's really shitty to he didn't
00:35:53
like their dad and he took that out on them yeah it's like sure that's their father and like that's half of who they
00:35:59
are but yeah it's like that's not their fault though well that's the thing that's not their choice so why are you
00:36:04
holding that against them yeah it's just it's strange to me yeah it really is but
00:36:09
also Jean hadn't requested any alimony during the divorce process and she was only getting about $200 a month in child
00:36:15
support which for two kids was not a lot no so if she wanted to ensure a bright future and this world class education
00:36:21
that she wanted to give her sons she was going to have to find a way to increase
00:36:25
her income dramatically mhm so now singularly focused she put her own PhD work on hold and contacted the
00:36:32
vocational office at Smith college for guidance and finding a better job cuz she's an Alum there yeah she told them
00:36:38
she wanted to move on from teaching and work her way up to school administration
00:36:42
because obviously she knew that paid better before long The Vocational office got back to her and they had an offer of
00:36:48
a position of director of the middle school at Springdale which was an elite all girls Prep School in Chestnut Hill
00:36:56
which is a wealthy suburb of Philadelphia okay and this would pay about $112,000 a year which right now
00:37:02
would be about $117,000 wow so that's that's a great annual yeah she eagerly AC accepted of
00:37:09
course and started making preparations to move to the east coast so a few months later she was settling into her
00:37:16
new life in Pennsylvania and was already thriving at her position in Springdale while she was dedicated to the new
00:37:22
position and dove in with a lot of enthusiasm she still managed to find the time to make sure that her kids were
00:37:27
also adjusting to their new home keeping up with their requirements cuz they were
00:37:30
both on scholarship you know helping with their school work Mom duties and late December though she called up her
00:37:36
old friend Marge Jacobson in New York and Marge was like girl you got to come out to New York I am throwing a dinner
00:37:43
party this weekend and you know you got to relax a little bit you got to let loose you got to come to my party oh
00:37:49
damn and Jean was like I don't know like it's going to cost money to go and you know we just got the kids settled But
00:37:56
ultimately she did agree to go to the party good yeah she needed it a little bit yeah I wish she had gone to like a
00:38:02
different party but uh oh the part is fine but you know so among the attendees at marg's party that night was Dr Herman
00:38:08
tarau he was a prominent New York cardiologist at the time and obviously a friend of the Jacobson Jean didn't know
00:38:14
a lot about him uh other than the fact that he was a friend of Marge and Marge's husband yeah but she was
00:38:19
immediately captivated by him he had quite the presence he was very Charming he had that like commanding presence it
00:38:26
seemed everybody around him from his friends to his patients had an unyielding Devotion to this man oh he's
00:38:33
got Charisma Charisma uniqueness NB and talent so that night Jee and Herman spent the entire evening chatting they
00:38:40
were obviously each trying to impress each other with intellect and quick wit Banta B when the party came to an end
00:38:47
and they parted ways Jean assumed she'd probably never see this guy again but a few days later she was at home in bed
00:38:53
with a backache and a gift unexpectedly arrived from doctor Herman tar hour oh girl and when she opened the small
00:39:00
package it contained a book on Israeli art and a brief note that read it's time you knew more about the Jews he was a
00:39:06
Jewish man okay yeah although she had only spent one night talking with Dr tarau Jean was completely taken with him
00:39:13
and was convinced that she had finally found that quote unquote right man that she described to her friend Dodie all
00:39:19
those years earlier she nailed it he he's a Jewish doctor he really he fits the bill that she described and then a
00:39:25
few days after the little gift the book B arrived at her house a card arrived in
00:39:29
the mail from Dr tarau and it read you were a delight to be with kept wondering if you could keep up with the pace also
00:39:36
whether or not you were a good dancer okay I don't love that note okay thank you I was like okay um it's a backhanded
00:39:46
compliment kep wondering if you could keep up with the pace like okay that would be my all right that's very
00:39:53
condescending and also oh we get it like oh yeah you're so you're so quick wted you're such a hot shot like I wonder if
00:40:02
you can keep up with me oh [ __ ] off yeah I very different time that would not Tickle My Fancy no that would not get me
00:40:10
but jean jean was Swept Away by this time hey to each their own you know so this was Jean's thing and she was very
00:40:17
excited when another card arrived a few weeks later this time from Kenya where Dr Town hour was visiting asking whether
00:40:24
or not she'd be interested in getting together with him in New York in March as it just so happened Jean was actually
00:40:30
planning to be at a conference in New York that very weekend sounds Kismet sounds kmit so she eagerly agreed to
00:40:36
meet him for dinner now throughout her marriage to Jim one of the things that really irked Jean about him was his lack
00:40:42
of initiative and like creativity yeah he didn't really have any ideas or wants of his own which made it so that she had
00:40:49
to always decide everything yeah and I can understand why that would be frustrating yeah so to her Delight
00:40:54
Herman was the exact opposite he was decisive and firm happy to choose the restaurant or the evening's activities
00:41:01
and high as she began to call him was thoughtful adventurous and very romantic So within a few days of the dinner in
00:41:07
New York flowers arrived at Jean's office and her house two sets of flowers and high called to check back in it was
00:41:15
like everything she wanted in a man like she described to Dodie a few years earlier had materialized and been handed
00:41:20
to her it really sounds that way yeah so a few a few weeks later Jean was back in
00:41:25
New York this time to celebrate High's 57th birthday and over the course of the weekend they saw a Broadway show
00:41:31
together they saw all the New York landmarks ate at some of the nicest restaurants unlike her ex-husband whose
00:41:37
interests were according to her pedestrian and vapid at least to Jean hi was cultured and seemed to pursue his
00:41:45
interest with enthusiasm which is again exactly what she was looking for yeah so
00:41:49
within a few months of dating Gan and hi had completely fallen in love and hi disclosed to his friend Marc Jacobson
00:41:55
that he was planning on asking Je to marry him wa by then Jean had met a lot of High's friends at the Galas and the
00:42:01
country club events that they went to on weekends or at the dinner parties that he would hel hold in his very opulent
00:42:07
home to those who knew them their affection for one another was obvious so it came as no surprise to Marge that hi
00:42:13
wanted to marry Jean even though their romance had been pretty short up to that point yeah it feels that way it was like
00:42:21
it wasn't a surprise but it was like a little like right now just like oh are you sure okay all right right like I saw
00:42:27
this coming but like I would have talked you out of it yeah I saw this coming but
00:42:31
I was thinking maybe like a little more down the road yeah but in a letter dated
00:42:36
uh March 1967 to Jean from high he expressed those feelings in writing so he said darling I love you very very
00:42:44
much how can I tell I miss you and want to share so many things with you sharing
00:42:49
that must be love are most people who marry in love yes I hope so what happens so few are really happy you will give me
00:42:57
all the answers this weekend drive carefully you will be transporting valuable cargo wow yeah he is he that's
00:43:06
that's [ __ ] molasses thick yeah that he's laying it on it's giving I'm on a place of Sex in the City it's giving
00:43:13
Richard oh my God yes it's got Richard Vibes Richard wow I kind of loved Richard you can't not love Richard
00:43:21
that's the thing you got to hate them later but you yeah I hate them at some point but you'll love them till then I
00:43:26
get it did so that spring and summer the romance deepened which was reflected in
00:43:31
their regular Communications hi wrote in a letter another letter in the spring darling my love for you grows deeper all
00:43:37
the time I feel that we could be very very happy together may I suggest we try to spend a very very long weekend
00:43:44
together around Memorial Day to see if you can really put up with me for more than a few hours without getting
00:43:49
terribly irritated or bored I love this it was clear from the letters that hi was building building up
00:43:56
to ask Jee to marry hell yeah and over that long Memorial Day weekend he did just that giving her an emerald cut
00:44:03
diamond ring proposing in a very traditional fashion love that I love an emerald cut I love an oval cut that's
00:44:09
what I have but I also love an emerald cut you're like just to be clear I'm like I love both hi's proposal came as
00:44:15
kind of a shock to everybody who knew him best and had seen the way that he had dodged commitment time and time
00:44:20
again in the past Mrs Arthur Schult a friend who had known high for years said he always had very attractive women
00:44:27
friends he was always very generous with time and money but he never married Jean
00:44:31
on the other hand though thought little if anything of High's history with women
00:44:35
and just happily accepted his proposal which you can understand yeah since the early days of her marriage to Jim Harris
00:44:41
she fantasized about having a partner who was her intellectual equal but who could also provide a sense of security
00:44:48
and she felt like she had found that in high yeah but the problem though is that
00:44:52
fantasies don't usually hold together when they're subjected to all the complexities of the real world no they
00:44:58
tend to bend Under Pressure they do and you know we're going to get there but jean was ecstatic about ha's proposal of
00:45:04
marriage and despite the fact that marrying him would require uprooting her life and starting over in New York she
00:45:10
didn't hesitate to say yes in the moment what she hadn't thought about though was
00:45:14
how uprooting that life would affect her teenage sons who had already had their lives disrupted by their parents'
00:45:21
divorce just a few years earlier yeah you're right but it did occur to her at a certain point that summer during a
00:45:27
visit with Marge Jacobson the reality of everything started to sink in for Jean and she said Marge I cannot marry high
00:45:33
for a year I cannot take those children out of school again I took them away from their father already well that was
00:45:39
I mean that was thoughtful yeah and I feel like that speaks to the kind of mom that she was yeah but you know her
00:45:45
concerns were reasonable but they turned out to be actually completely unnecessary in August just a few months
00:45:50
after he'd proposed Jean raised the issue of setting a date for the wedding so she could make longer term plans and
00:45:57
to her surprise hi hesitated something that he rarely did in conversation and said Jean I can't go through with it I'm
00:46:03
afraid of it I can't go through with it and I'm sorry wow yeah I didn't see that coming yeah
00:46:13
everyone who knew Jean expected hi's response to come as a big shock to her actually like it just was to you but she
00:46:18
responded very coolly she told friends it hurt for a while I suppose but I'm not very surprised he isn't a marrying
00:46:24
man I don't really know what all the reasons are huh yeah so interesting yeah it took quite the turn it was like I
00:46:32
feel like it was so you know hot and heavy for lack of a better term for a while and like really reached a Pinnacle
00:46:39
Point and it burned out like yeah but it doesn't burn completely out eventually it does but it kind of like burns out
00:46:46
then goes it's like a heartbeat monitor where it's like up down up down you know
00:46:51
and then it kind of flatlines for a minute forever yeah okay so with marriage off the table Jean put her
00:46:58
engagement ring back in its box wrapped it up and sent it back to high not wanting to reveal her disappointment to
00:47:04
her former fiance damn but to her surprise hi called the moment he received the ring and insisted that she
00:47:10
keep it and a few days later he actually drove down to Philadelphia himself ring
00:47:14
in hand and again insisted that she keep it wow that night according to Jean's Sons she and hi locked themselves in the
00:47:20
bedroom and argued about the future of their relationship for hours from hi's perspective Jean deserved to be with
00:47:27
somebody who wanted to marry her and that just wasn't him he just simply didn't want to be married so in his mind
00:47:32
the right thing to do was to remove himself from the equation his decision not to get married appeared to put an
00:47:38
end to the relationship altogether but in the weeks that followed they did continue to see each other from time to
00:47:44
time and in the meantime and between all of that Jean threw herself completely into work to try to distract herself
00:47:50
from just the disappointment of it all and at the same time her chronic back pain which she had actually struggled
00:47:56
with for most of her life started flaring up worse than ever it seems like stress yeah anxiety and stuff yeah as
00:48:03
soon as hi heard about Jean's back pain from Friends he called her immediately and recommended a new painkiller and
00:48:09
even went as far as sending her a prescription for the pills so the distance from high the painkillers altoe
00:48:16
appeared to have given Jean some clarity around their relationship and she started to consider if she might be
00:48:22
willing to compromise her wants especially if it meant that she was is not going to lose him
00:48:28
forever what seems to have occurred to Jean was the fact that ha's desire to no longer see her or marry her didn't mean
00:48:35
that he didn't love her just that he wanted to protect her reputation from anybody who might see their not being
00:48:41
married as somehow abnormal because at the time you didn't have like a long-term partner you got married you're
00:48:47
living in sin yeah living in sin after all though high tarau was a fiercely independent strong willed man who rarely
00:48:54
compromised and that aspect of his Pro of his personality was probably not going to change so late in life and she
00:49:00
knew that so one night a few months after they separated Jean wrote High a letter saying dear High what a strange
00:49:06
and wonderful and awful three months these have been and what a lot of soul-searching thoughts they have evoked
00:49:12
I know a letter from me is not what you want most in the world but there are so many important things to say everything
00:49:17
about us is important to me hi because I've never experienced love before until you and love i' I've discovered means
00:49:24
wanting to share every thought and sensation and in fact needing to share as far as never seeing you again is
00:49:29
concerned I won't let it happen however much you protest if your social engagements continue to be as pressing
00:49:35
as they are this weekend perhaps you could work me in during office hours wow yeah also I just want to write letters
00:49:42
again I know this whole letter writing thing I'm like wow this is so much more like passionate yeah and dramatic and
00:49:49
all that I love a letter yeah Shaina Alexander the journalist I mentioned early wrote to Jean the letter was a
00:49:56
proclamation that she was a modern woman to Herman it may have seemed a license to resume his lifetime Bachelor habits
00:50:02
but whatever the case the letter worked yeah hi called a few weeks later and did
00:50:06
arrange a date to see her and the children in New York in the winter of 1967 thus beginning a new phase of Jean
00:50:12
and High's relationship H it's impossible to know what Dr Herman High tarau understood his relationship with
00:50:20
Jean to be but it is clear that they probably would have described it in decidedly different terms M to Jean
00:50:28
everything that was starting back up again was a restoration of the way that things had been even though it was on a
00:50:33
restricted schedule where she could only see him on the weekends or holidays or when he had time to see her yeah for hi
00:50:40
on the other hand Jean's apparent compromise seemed as Shane Alexander suggested to have been interpreted as
00:50:47
her implicit permission for him to carry on his bachelor lifestyle and just be able to casually see her when their
00:50:54
Lifestyles or when their schedules would allow Yeah so basically she was like it's just going to be that I'll see him
00:51:00
on a limited schedule and he was like it's just that I'll see her on a limited schedule and in between then I can [ __ ]
00:51:07
whoever I want yeah this just doesn't sound like this doesn't sound good yeah basically it became an open relationship
00:51:16
without ever having a conversation about it yeah which is never good it feel yeah
00:51:21
I'm an open relationship I'm sure it can work but there's got to be to each their
00:51:25
own a sit down conversation like both be on the same page parameters are set up yeah no matter what you both have to be
00:51:32
on the same page your relationship is you're in a relationship exactly so tah High's closest friends the turn in in
00:51:38
his relationship with Jean and his selfish desire to carry on exactly as he pleased did not come as much of a
00:51:43
surprise when she learned that the marriage had been called off Marge Jacobson reached out to hi to find out
00:51:49
what had happened and she really only got a basic explanation he said Gan understands that we won't marry but I
00:51:54
have promised her that I would take care of her and I mean it she's Remembered in
00:51:57
my will so she was in his will damn yeah this is so this is so like it's kind of
00:52:04
progressive it's very interesting it's Progressive but uh but not at the same time but like
00:52:11
the complete opposite of progressive because it's Gan giving in to him you know yeah yeah so like it it it comes
00:52:20
off as this very like wow like they're so forward thinking and they're kind of like removing boundaries to make make
00:52:27
this work for them and it's like but it's not and well and ultimately that's not not working for half of them you
00:52:33
know like one of half of them is completely compromising while the other one is not at all right and it doesn't
00:52:38
sound I couldn't find any information to see that Jean had other relationships too that she you know filled her time
00:52:45
with when she wasn't seeing high so it was kind of like a one-sided open relationship which yeah that's
00:52:51
definitely not ideal yeah and and again it's not I don't think it's what she UL imately wanted I think she just didn't
00:52:58
want to lose him that's this is this feels like desperation yeah so she yeah she gave up her own wants and needs yeah
00:53:06
which was really unlike her yeah but to Marge the response was characteristic of
00:53:11
of Dr tau's typical cold Detachment years later she said the truth is I think ha was incapable of loving he had
00:53:18
tremendous family feeling but without love hi only loved himself and was quite insensitive to everybody else oh that's
00:53:25
sad I know that's a sad way to be it is and you wonder what he came from I was going what led to that yeah yeah for
00:53:32
Jean High selfishness was one of the things that actually made him such a great man in the eyes of others though
00:53:37
he was driven to succeed despite the odds and that drive had pushed him to become one of the most well-respected
00:53:42
doctors in New York she once told a close friend hi is great to be with because he's so selfish he does what he
00:53:50
wants and that makes him a damn good company is there anyone worse to be around than some self-made martyr
00:53:55
forever telling you I did it for the children's sake it sounds like she was convincing
00:54:02
herself and I think I'm sorry what I think a lot of people can relate to this sentiment of convincing yourself that
00:54:10
you're 100% that a terrible quality in somebody is actually their best quality it's actually it would be awful if they
00:54:17
weren't like this it's like that's that that is like the most like desperate please just believe me that
00:54:28
that this is totally fine and that I would hate this any other way to say like somebody who's selfish is the best
00:54:35
kind of person to be around no they're actually they're the worst kind of person to be around that's just like
00:54:40
diabolically untrue and it's also like it's like this weird form of self-sabotage it really is
00:54:48
cuz it's like no it's you be selfish yeah if you think that's a great quality possess it for a little bit be selfish
00:54:54
do what you want to do Jean that's the thing you know and and you don't even have to be selfish to do that no but he
00:55:01
is you know he was being selfish yeah and I just you feel it's it really is like it's like a form of Stockholm
00:55:09
syndrome it really is it is well it's complicated because she let it happen absolutely so I there are a lot of men
00:55:19
that if they're allowed to be selfish they're going to be there's a lot of women I was going to say and on the flip
00:55:23
side there's a lot of women who are super selfish and crazy yeah so anyway going back to the story one woman who
00:55:30
dated Dr tarau described him as quote a Jewish Bachelor Prince accustomed to being pursued but at the same time hi
00:55:37
seemed to proudly reject the need for love and connection as a human weakness Shan and Alexander wrote I don't love
00:55:43
anybody and I don't need anybody became his proud and ofp Credo oh man yeah which clearly something happened along
00:55:53
the along the way very clearly yeah maybe something in childhood maybe something there's got to be something in
00:55:59
that yeah maybe like a a first relationship for sure something is there yeah it's possible that Jean's
00:56:05
perspective on high uh High's personality was some kind of a defense mechanism like we were just saying or
00:56:11
it's also possible that she just completely romanticized his behavior to make it more tolerable I think it's a
00:56:15
mixture of both I think it is too but whatever the case it seems unlikely that she expected high selfishness or his
00:56:21
callousness would extend to his romantic relationships when it came to the emotions that he claimed to have
00:56:27
loved yet in the years that followed as they continued to see each other on a truncated schedule Dr tarau was carrying
00:56:34
on relationships with several women during the week while Jean was in Pennsylvania it's also like isn't that
00:56:40
like it's just sounds like a lot of work I mean yeah aren't you tired but it sounds like a lot of work but it also
00:56:46
sounds like it was filling his cup in a different way and again I think it points back to I think he actually
00:56:54
needed to be loved on a on a different Lev yeah and I think I'm looking at it probably he's not looking at it through
00:57:02
an emotional lens no so it's not a lot of work no cuz there's no heavy lifting in the emotional department and he's
00:57:08
kind of getting he's getting everything he needs having his cake and eating it too so it's like for him it's really not
00:57:13
a lot of work he's not carrying on full-blown love affairs with people you know what I mean it sounds like no he
00:57:20
kind of is or like his version of A Love Affair which is just to me it sounds like the flowery language and everything
00:57:27
kind of comes naturally to him like he's a the charm thing like when he goes right doesn't sound like a lot of work
00:57:34
he goes right up to the point of commitment and sometimes even makes that commitment and then backs out I mean
00:57:39
proposes well listen to this yeah there was act in in some cases these relationships that he was carrying on
00:57:44
were short-term casual relationships but some of them were what I'm sure the women considered to be serious there
00:57:50
were two women that he proposed to one in 1970 and one in 1971 for ultimately calling off those
00:57:57
engagements just like he had with Jean damn so like he would get right there and I do Wonder um I I I could see this
00:58:05
going both ways I could see it as he maybe was like I I I want to get married like I'm supposed to get married this is
00:58:12
what I'm going to do or it's what those women needed to stick around for the extra mile like he knows what he needs
00:58:19
to do to to keep it going for as long as he wants to keep it going or maybe he thought that that's what he he wanted
00:58:26
who knows decided to call it off pure speculation cuz you know we I don't know him and he's not here to say
00:58:32
unfortunately oh so whether he was just completely oblivious or cruel can never be known but hi seemed at least on
00:58:39
certain occasions to be under the impression that Gan did share his casual attitude toward their relationship in
00:58:45
the two instances that he proposed marriage to other women in 1970 and 1971 he actually called Jean to announce his
00:58:53
engagements which is a little cruel in my opinion but I don't know if he thought yikes you
00:58:59
know we're in an open relationship I'm also like did you think that like those women were going to be down for that
00:59:05
it's like he cuz I'm like is he just trying to like abide by the quote unquote open relationship of it all and
00:59:12
be like you need to know when I become cuz who knows if they had they did talk about a thing and again pure speculation
00:59:20
possibly had a conversation maybe they had a conversation where it was like if you are getting serious about someone I
00:59:24
need to know yeah so you need to tell me so maybe he's like I'm I'm getting the most serious that's absolutely possible
00:59:30
you never know I don't it's possible I don't think that was yeah it doesn't sound like there was a lot of like
00:59:36
discussions around this the form of this relationship but I also and again pure speculation I think this became a little
00:59:43
bit of a game yeah and I think there was some satisfaction in stringing along and
00:59:49
pull holding off and some I mean some relationships like like these kind of toxic style relationship that's the
00:59:59
thing they become addictive and you become addtive yeah to the the drama the back and forth and the drama and the you
01:00:07
know the the love bombing when you make up and how everything's great and then you know like the ups and downs become
01:00:14
this like ride that you just can't take yourself off of yeah exactly well to most who knew him those those around him
01:00:22
this you know calling her and being like hey I'm engaged oh that didn't work out
01:00:25
but I'm engaged again was just further evidence of his tendency to be a little cruel and a little thoughtless but jean
01:00:32
tar hour's consumate apologist tried to maintain a sense of humor about it at least in public situations she once
01:00:39
joked to a friend when he told me she had four children I knew he'd never marry her wow it's just like oh
01:00:46
damn again I say damn I know as time went on though Jean took whatever H was willing to give but otherwise focused
01:00:53
her attention on her career in 1972 she left the school she was working at for a
01:00:57
position as head mistress at the Thomas school another all girls private school uh this was in I think it's rowon
01:01:04
Connecticut but the relocation to Connecticut brought her closer to New York and a lot of her friends speculated
01:01:10
that that was not an accident but she probably took that job so that she would have a shorter commute to see hi that
01:01:16
makes sense it should he want to see her though oh cuz it was like she's he told
01:01:22
her when they were going to get together yeah yeah anyway oh I just know this I can I know
01:01:30
this yeah I know this relationship like it's just I'm I'm listening to it I'm like it's sad and it's so the
01:01:37
desperation on the other side is that's rough well and again like going back to her childhood think about what was
01:01:44
ingrained in her yeah like I mean she she grew up with somebody who was a man who never saw her who never made her
01:01:52
feel like she was enough and who she had to always constantly beg and fight for the attention or any
01:01:58
kind of like pat on the back or any kind of compliment and it's like it does carry into yeah you know well and then I
01:02:06
and going even further so that was her whole childhood and then she married a man who she felt was the complete
01:02:11
opposite of that and that didn't work out so she went right back to square one yeah and she was like how do I how do I
01:02:16
manage to keep this you know and I'm sure she saw it as like a her problem when obviously it wasn't for sure it was
01:02:23
just it was kind yeah sometimes you don't even need to have that kind of upbringing or anything
01:02:30
like that to fall into that no you know what I mean I think it just adds a layer
01:02:34
when you do but you're right yeah like sometimes that just happens I have a great father oh papa [ __ ] rocks
01:02:40
thinks I'm the bees knes and always told me I was the bees knes and like was great and is great and remains great and
01:02:46
will be great forever and I still dated somebody and there was a similar kind of
01:02:52
relationship where it was like I was constantly trying to hold on to this awful situation and it kind of was like
01:03:01
I'll see you when I see you which was literally like I have control of the situation kind of thing so it's like you
01:03:06
don't even need to have that background but when you have that background I'm sure it's if that was if and I'm only
01:03:12
thinking of my own thing yeah if it was that was hard to get out of for me who has no psychological reason to be
01:03:20
trapped in that way of thinking to have a background and a trauma that builds upon that that's keeping you there must
01:03:28
be like being in quicksand oh yeah I can relate to it not my dad is not Jean's dad by any sense but we have a strained
01:03:36
relationship and I he wasn't a huge part of my childhood and you know like I love
01:03:42
my dad but it's not my my relationship with my dad is not my ideal relationship no and my relationship with my mom as we
01:03:49
all know is not super Fuego no so not super Fuego in my early years like in my teens and like very early 20s I was
01:03:56
seeking out relationships where I would get the most attention but they weren't great Relationships by any any attention
01:04:04
yeah any attention was good attention even like you know yeah but then you you either realize that that's a pattern and
01:04:12
you divert from that pattern which I did because Drew is the most amazing man on
01:04:16
the planet or you stay on that road and it difficult but it's hard yeah it is cuz when I mean I didn't understand like
01:04:24
my John I didn't understand why he was being so kind and why he was saying like truthful things and being open I was
01:04:32
like totally Avers to it cuz I was like I what like who are you well you know what I also think obviously the father
01:04:38
is a big part of the way that women pick Partners I also think other experiences
01:04:43
in life for sure like not to like bring it to a dark place but you were bullied yeah your first relationship was not
01:04:49
iconic no and then your second one was even less of a ban relationship but then you you get older you do you can di
01:04:58
again divert from that path and kind of start to find the things that you like about yourself yeah and then when
01:05:04
somebody is then you know confirming those things that they like those things it can be a little jarring at first cuz
01:05:10
you're like but then you're like oh [ __ ] I do deserve this yeah that's the thing
01:05:15
I think I I hope and I I wish that every woman or person got to that point well that's why I'm like I'm like everyone
01:05:22
listening you deserve it you deserve if you think you don't deserve it and you're being like this person's too nice
01:05:28
I don't deserve this you deserve it you absolutely deserve it shut up yeah everybody deserves some kind of yeah
01:05:33
take it we've been so like self-help lately we yeah cuz I just feel like it's just necessary we're in a place of
01:05:39
positivity we're trying to I'm trying to bring more positivity more light around
01:05:44
everywhere yeah you know we need it the world needs it yeah well so back to the story I know we're really going off it's
01:05:52
like old school today but some some of you guys missed that so this is for you I and we missed that we miss that and
01:05:57
we're allowed to go off track so [ __ ] here it is I do what I want so most of the
01:06:04
time uh like I so she took a new job and again she took the job at least in part
01:06:10
to be closer to to be a little closer so she took her new job at the time of her
01:06:13
move private schools around the country were going through kind of a rough period there was a n a national
01:06:18
recession going on and obviously widespread financial difficulties were causing enrollments to drop which of
01:06:24
course then dramatically affected the budgets at the Thomas school and others like it in her time at Springside where
01:06:30
she used to work Jean had actually gained a reputation for being a very tough but very efficient administrator
01:06:35
so the offer of the new position at the Thomas School came with the understanding that she would be expected
01:06:41
to turn things around for the struggling institution okay and one of the big things that they needed from her was to
01:06:46
improve enrollment among other things yeah so that was a very high stress very high pressure job and at I think in a in
01:06:54
a previous point in her life it would have been a great job for her at this point in her life it did not suit her in
01:06:59
the slightest she had always been a little bit Moody and kind of you know uh irritable at times but after taking the
01:07:07
job at the Thomas School everybody noticed that she was becoming even more unpredictable she would often lose her
01:07:13
composure and even scream at students over the slightest things and things at the school were a lot more dire than she
01:07:19
even anticipated and she was very much in over her head it was a lot more than just one person was going to be able to
01:07:26
in 1975 the Thomas School actually closed permanently oh damn and Jean found herself out of work and she was
01:07:33
forced to take a job with the Allied maintenance corporation which was a janitorial supply company it paid well
01:07:39
the job but for Jean who always wanted her work to contribute to the betterment of children it was a slog yeah and even
01:07:46
worse it didn't really carry any of the prestige or social status that she enjoyed as being a head mistress at an
01:07:51
elite private school so while her professional life had become mundane and disappointed pointing her personal life
01:07:56
was really in no better shape things with high hadn't changed and her chronic back problems were persisting even
01:08:03
getting worse and actually caused her to develop a heavy Reliance on daoxin which
01:08:08
was a prescription painkiller prescribed to her by Dr tar hour oh uh it's an interesting choice of a painkiller yeah
01:08:17
throughout the 1970s and into the early 80s doxin uh a brand name for the generic drug methamphetamine was
01:08:24
technically approved for the treatment of ADHD but was also approved by the FDA for the off label treatment of obesity
01:08:32
and narcolepsy among other things essentially they said just do meth about it that I was just I was like
01:08:40
they were so Wy back then like they were just like just do meth about it and when you
01:08:48
think about it this is the 70s that's like not that long ago I mean now now it it really is [ __ ] we're all thinking of
01:08:55
it in like 2000 I I think of everything yeah 50 years ago damn cuz I always think the '90s were 10 years ago so it's
01:09:02
like this is but I would be it's hard for me to comprehend yeah I'd be like 12 if that was the case or like even
01:09:07
younger or just not even exist I don't know math but let's get back to the meth like many stimulants disys oxin AKA meth
01:09:14
had some uh serious physical and psychological side effects including yeah I would think it's a last resort
01:09:21
for a lot of people at this point yeah but uh back then well back then they were just like here
01:09:28
do this but the side effects included increased heart rate rapid breathing Tremors restlessness increased body
01:09:34
temperature Euphoria but unfortunately dysphoria as well grandiosity repetitive and obsessive behaviors the list goes on
01:09:42
oh boy these side effects also tended to be more common in people who were not diagnosed with ADHD because this was a
01:09:49
medicine to treat ADHD so if you don't have that the side effects are going to be worse yeah for sure gan experienc
01:09:55
many of those uh side effects listed above because she did not have ADHD and she even experienced other side effects
01:10:02
as well oh man according to sha Alexander daoxin is not just speed but high speed it hits the central nervous
01:10:09
system 5 to 10 times faster than ordinary amphetamines rather in the manner of cocaine wow so it's snap
01:10:18
instant like it hits you oh that's so scary it is it absolutely is yeah so aside from that yeah things started
01:10:27
looking up in mid 1977 aside from the meth aside from the meth of it all things were looking up in mid 1977 Jean
01:10:33
learned about an opening for another head mistress position at the madira school which again was one of the most
01:10:39
uh the nation's most prestigious private schools in Washington DC the job actually paid less than what she was
01:10:45
making at Allied maintenance and would require her to move further from New York and that meant further from high
01:10:51
turnar hour but for somebody in her field the job was considered a crowning achievement because of the the
01:10:58
prestigious nature yeah thanks to the dis oxin Jean's back pain was manageable and helped her accomplish far more than
01:11:05
she might have otherwise been able to which impressed the board at madira and soon she was installed as the school's
01:11:11
new head mistress damn so the job was a welcome distraction for her because her life had become really lonely at this
01:11:17
point her kids had left for school for college and after college they you know went on to starting families of their
01:11:24
own going to find jobs that whole thing so she was by herself and when she wasn't at work she spent a lot of her
01:11:29
time just alone and on the increasingly rare occasions when she and hi did spend
01:11:34
time together it was clear that things between them had really changed yeah once assertive and vibrant Jean was very
01:11:41
demure now in hi's presence and didn't participate in a lot of conversations the way that she had in the past and for
01:11:48
his part hi seemed more distant and cold with Jean than he had ever been oh no he
01:11:52
rarely told her that he loved her and actually according to people who knew them kind
01:11:58
of seemed to Delight in withholding affection from her that sucks I think it got to his head a little bit Yeah like
01:12:07
the the nature of their relationship yeah yeah I yeah I could see that you know so the change for that to happen it
01:12:13
is yeah the change in Dr tarnower's attitude towards Jean may have had something to do with his ongoing
01:12:19
relationship with a woman named lineros who was his lab assistant at the Scarsdale Medical Group Lynn and hi
01:12:27
dated kind of casually for a few years but by the time Jean started at the madira school in
01:12:32
1977 Lynn and hi had become more serious like his other relationships hi's relationship with Lynn was not a secret
01:12:39
and obviously wasn't something he was trying to keep from Gan but in the past Gan had always M tried to maintain a
01:12:46
casual attitude about high dating other women including Lynn herself but the more and more time they were spending
01:12:52
together Lynn and hi it was clear that something was different here yeah the relationship seemed far more serious and
01:13:00
for probably the first time in her relationship with him Jean started to feel uncontrollable jealousy oh no which
01:13:07
I'm sure the meth didn't help I'm sure that did not help probably not Jean's feelings of jealousy were often
01:13:13
exacerbated by the overlapping presence of she and Lynn in Dr tarnower's Life yeah for instance be hard oh yeah like
01:13:21
for instance on one occasion in July 1976 Jean was was spending the weekend at High's apartment in New York and Lynn
01:13:28
just arrived to the apartment with her kids to use his pool o so his kids just hop in the pool and Lynn starts painting
01:13:35
the patio furniture where like around where Jean was sitting so Jean tried to ignore her for a little bit but finally
01:13:43
turned to Lynn and said does it not seem bizarre to you Lynn that you are here painting his furniture while I'm here it
01:13:48
seems real bizarre seems bizarre the whole thing seems bizarre to me Jean Lynn apparently didn't understand what
01:13:54
she meant and Jee rephrased the question and said Lynn why the hell are you here
01:13:59
and in response she said Lynn said I'm here because I'm allowed to be and she kept painting oh damn I'm like
01:14:06
girls why do you want this yeah ex it's like girls that's when you do what what I did you B together up you get those
01:14:15
girlies together have you ever oh my God if anybody is looking for like a good like it's not even like a romcom I hate
01:14:22
to say this but it's a chick flick yeah The Other Woman oh yeah such a good remember we watched that with ma once
01:14:30
yes it's such a good movie we absolutely did I love that movie I'm telling you best thing you can do band together and
01:14:37
ruin his life yeah that's all not in this case but no so Lynn has never uh spoken publicly about her relationship
01:14:44
with Herman tarau and Dr tarau is unable to speak for himself so we only have Gene's interpretation of events which
01:14:51
are probably biased yeah but still to the outside Observer it did seem that while he might not have orchestrated the
01:14:57
run-ins between Lynn and Jean Dr tarau still got a certain amount of pleasure that came from the drama you know yeah
01:15:05
uh in fact according to Alexander many observers surmise that tarau deliberately encouraged each woman to be
01:15:11
jealous of the next in order to feed his own ego he encourages Jean to think of Lynn as a [ __ ] to Lynn he evidently
01:15:17
portrays Jean as a bothersome old lady oh man by the way that's a quote that's not my words yeah in 1977 shortly before
01:15:24
she started her job at the madira school Jean actually started getting harassing
01:15:27
phone calls at home from an anonymous caller sometimes it was a woman's voice on the other line and sometimes it was a
01:15:33
man's but it was never a voice that she recognized rather than a prank call from
01:15:38
some random person though the calls seemed to be targeting Jean specifically telling her that she was old and
01:15:44
pathetic quote unquote and that she should quote unquote roll over and die holy [ __ ] other times the caller would
01:15:52
describe a explicit sex acts that Dr tarau had performed on other women oh and the caller suggested that Jean
01:16:00
should quote take sex lessons implying that like she wasn't pleasing him anymore wow so she started with getting
01:16:08
these calls at home but before long she the call started coming in at work where
01:16:13
the anonymous caller would leave a phone number with Jean's secretary and request
01:16:17
a return call and when Jean would call the number they would start up again with the harassing comments and just
01:16:22
hang up abruptly wow yeah also what are sex lessons I don't know I'm sorry that's just like imagine
01:16:34
I'm literally taking it to a place of Sex in the City again that's not even a good like that's not a good read you
01:16:40
should take some sex lessons like I'd be like that's stupid that's I would say dumb thing to say remember though in Sex
01:16:47
in the City when they go to that tantric sex class that's all I can think of that's I feel like that's a sex lesson I
01:16:52
guess so but maybe there's more but what a bad that feels like something you say
01:16:56
when you when you ran out of you didn't plan ahead yeah you didn't plan your insult ahead yeah take some sex
01:17:03
lessons stupid it's like where okay where are those oky do oky do oh whenever Jee received one of these calls
01:17:12
she would immediately call Lynn and accuse her of making the calls even though she didn't recognize the voice or
01:17:18
she she figured maybe Lynn arranged for somebody else to make the calls but every time Lynn claimed she had nothing
01:17:23
to do with this and demanded that Jean just stopped calling her she even went as far Lynn went as far as complaining
01:17:28
to hi that Jean had been harassing her and hi took Lynn's side and demanded that Jean stop the foolish Behavior or
01:17:35
he would end their relationship you got to end the relationship then it's if he's taking another woman's side you
01:17:41
he's declared like that's you've heard all you need to hear move forward he quiet quit he kind of he ABS he like
01:17:49
loudly quit and it's like that's get out of there yeah well the calls were soon soon followed by obscene letters sent to
01:17:56
uh Jean's home and office which were always written in a very unfamiliar handwriting in time she changed her
01:18:02
phone number actually multiple times but every time this caller managed to get the new number and the harassment
01:18:08
continued jeez you have to assume it was somebody that he was seeing absolutely CU I don't think Lynn and Jean were the
01:18:14
only people he was seeing so sound I'm sure he had some kind of um what rodal is that like what it is where you like
01:18:21
write rodex Rolodex I like your version though what did it say r Rota Roo oh we had a Rolodex at mom's
01:18:29
office house I remember picture it I used to flick through it when I was little um but I'm sure he had one of
01:18:34
those 100% and would write down Jean's new number and someone would get it yeah but before long the stress started
01:18:40
taking a toll on Jean which only exacerbated her depression and anxiety and one day in 1978 she got a
01:18:48
call from a former cooworker at the Thomas School uh psychiatric social worker Sig Gart wondering if she might
01:18:55
be planning to be in New York City soon Gart always respected Jean and really loved working with her he said to me she
01:19:01
represented everything I think an educated woman should be but for all her professionalism he could tell that she
01:19:07
was in distress he said later she was in great fear of something like she was paranoid so he had no immediate plans to
01:19:14
be in the city but he told Jean that if it was important he would make the time and go see her so she declined to take
01:19:21
him up on the offer immediately minimizing her needs he said she wouldn't wouldn't open up she wouldn't
01:19:25
tell me what it was and I never heard from her again H but it was very clear she was not doing well no it doesn't
01:19:33
sound like it yeah the mysterious phone calls and letters which would literally never be solved weren't the only
01:19:38
harassment that Jee experienced at the time in 1979 after returning home from a trip to the Caribbean with high she
01:19:45
found several pieces of her clothing that she kept at his apartment had been slashed and ripped and it also appeared
01:19:54
that several items of clothing had been speared with something quote brown and sticky that Jean concluded was
01:20:02
feces [ __ ] that yeah yeah nothing's worth this everybody it's not nothing and no one is worth
01:20:13
this yeah no that's right if feces on my clothes I'm out yeah you got that's if there that's that's where it is I mean
01:20:25
my personally mine is way before that but like your boundary should be there yeah that should be really when you yeah
01:20:32
that's when you should you know what we we did what we had to do we said what we had to say this is not fun if
01:20:40
it's getting to a point where [ __ ] is getting smeared on my clothes I'm going to go when it's rule of thumb to a point
01:20:46
of feces I'm I'm not peace out I'm not I am ride or die until feces become involved and then I'm then when feces
01:20:55
enters the chat you leave the chat I yeah that's when I leave the conversation that's really upsetting it
01:21:01
is and you just wonder who it was that's the I'm like who the [ __ ] did that we
01:21:05
never find out God I don't want to at I yeah I don't even want to know but like the harassing phone calls Jee herself
01:21:11
concluded that Lynn was behind the D the destruction of her clothing of course but she could never say with complete
01:21:16
certainty she never would be able to but she would devolve a lot further into madness I would say and a lot of
01:21:26
just other really sad things that we're going to get into in part two oh man I think we really set the scene there we
01:21:34
you got to know je in her early childhood and and we're we're on a downward trajectory now so we're going to save
01:21:43
that for part two I feel like it's I feel like the pressure cooker is strategically placed and I think it's
01:21:51
coming yeah it's on and it's full of feces Oh no yeah no there's no more feces in good I was like oh no can you
01:21:57
imagine tell me there's not a ton of feces here no that's it uh so in the meantime we hope you keep listening and
01:22:03
we hope you keep it weird you want to do it so weird that you join us for our bonus episode that's going to come out
01:22:12
tomorrow on uh March 7th and it's going to be a [ __ ] Banger please stay with us even though
01:22:20
we said feces a lot feces is funny it's better than [ __ ] come back tomorrow see
01:22:26
you sh [Music] [Music]