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hey weirdos I'm Elena I am Ash and this is [Music] morbid Doom no it's just morbid yeah I don't
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think morbid decom exists no I don't think does and if it does it doesn't belong to us yeah it's not ours so
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what's up Brothers It's Vander pump rules finale night yeah that's how I feel the season was hard and interesting
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but I'm very worried it's going to be the last season of Vander pump I feel like it might be yeah you know I I want
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to go out on a higher note personally yeah like this just feels so sad yeah I think it was just like you know they had
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to to ride the wave of Scandal yeah and then I feel like there was like only so many places you can go
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after that uh none of them are really positive no it's very true I feel like I do feel like there was a cosmic shift
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though after that that I was a little confused about yeah I felt a cosmic shift myself actually when I just I
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didn't even talk about this this is now um like a Bravo podcast there we go you know sometimes it doubles yeah but when
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I went to sir I felt a cosmic shift I think a lot of people feel that way so many people commented on the pictures
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that I posted and were like oh my God girl did you go to sir and I was like yes yes I do and no photos exist of it
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yeah I'll say no more than that I will I just won't elaborate it was just an experion yep you could call it that but
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on the way to sir I had this Uber driver who was the coolest lady ever her name is paulen and she was like oh you guys
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are going to Sir like are you big like Bravo like Vander pump rules fans and I was like oh like 100% that's why we're
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going to that's why I live and breathe that's why we're going to sir and turns out she had a has a podcast called
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tender loving care question mark and it's wicked good and she also had so much tea that like she had so much tea
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that like I can't even share all of it here but she has some that like the tea then goes into her podcast so definitely
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go listen to that podcast oh look at that I told her I was like I'll shout you out girl I love that it was so good
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well speaking of podcast I have a podcast shout out too I think I've shouted out this person's podcast before
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but like I've been listening to it lately and I she's just delightful and does such a good job uh it's the hello
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Sydney podcast that's such a good name for a podcast so good cuz her name is Sydney yeah how do you like that you're
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just you have to have a podcast if your name is Sydney and you're into horror it's horror Chronicles on Tik Tok she's
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amazing she's a great follow we love her we love Sydney and I'm telling you her podcast is a really great listen uh she
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she did she like covers every horror movie you can think of she does deep deep Dives she knows her [ __ ] she's
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someone who you can I like go to her for horror movie recommendations like if if
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she says a movie is good I'm like it's probably good like I'm not worried about it at all that's good to know I could
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probably use that for scream because our podcast scream usually like whenever I pick my movies I'm just like Googling
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something like yeah you're just trying it out yeah like G it a try cuz you know I'm new to the horror world yeah go to
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Sydney she she'll steer you in the right direction she just covered all four Hell
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House LLC movies in one episode there's four there's four and you've only shown me one no I've shown you two no I've
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only watched one oh i' I've think I've watched one two I don't think I've watched three and I watched part of four
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I actually finish four um I love them I think they're I nothing beats the first one but the ending of the first one
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[ __ ] me up Hell House LLC is such an underrated movie I agree I think it's so good no I we're halfway I know and it
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it's got that in houses October Bill always make me just in the Halloween mood I feel like Halloween is like last
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year we had like a really good Halloween but there was a lot going on like personally and I like was had to like
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postpone my wedding I was like in the thrust of wedding planning and I feel like this year like not having like a
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big party have like having to plan a big party like looming over me is going to be great oh yeah you can just
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concentrate on Halloween yeah cuz I loved my wedding obviously like it was absolutely fantastic but once you're
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done with that you're like love being married let's celebrate the [ __ ] out of Halloween oh and that reminds me that
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sorry we're just like set I need a minute before we get into part three so this is called um procrastinating yeah
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this is like delaying the inevitable is what this is called but uh we did um a live stream show at blackcraft cult in
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Salem it was so [ __ ] cool the other day and it was we covered uh the saem witch trials and the story of Martha
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carrier and um it was so much fun that I mean black crack cult is so amaz I love
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that story I love that brand I'm a big loyal Black Craft cult girly so it was really amazing to be able to do it there
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and they were all so sweet and they walked us through their haunt that they have in Salem no I'm so [ __ ] excited
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for that when I tell you I can't wait this haunt is so Elite no it's on another [ __ ] level every room we
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walked in I kept being like this is my Disney this is my Disney I love quote of I kept turning around just being like
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this is beautiful I love this so much like they did such a good job so if you happen to be in Salem during the spooky
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season this year definitely go to their haunt because they're awesome people awesome brand and the haunt is [ __ ]
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top tier no it's so good so just had to say that also one more thing just while we're at it we have a lot of new merch
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over on the wondery store we have new drink wear we have new t-shirts and we have keychains that are really cute so
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if you guys want to go grab those go ahead yeah and if you know if you don't want to you don't have to yeah if you
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want to go right ahead if you want to go for it we're not pressuring you we would
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never pressure you do what you want be your own person your own life they're really comfy though um but yeah I think
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oh and you can also one thing I am going to pressure you into doing is buying the
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pre-ordering the butcher game I'll always pressure you into that no I won't pressure you only if you feel like you
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want to I will pressure you you have to but it's coming out September 17th and you can pre-order it um and there's a
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playlist to go along with it on Spotify so you can search The Butcher game playlist uh that zando has on their
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thing and I've shared so it's a cool playlist that I listened to while I was writing it yeah and um and it's not like
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[ __ ] I really that's my playlist that I was listening to while I was writing it I have very specific playlist
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not even just like in the act of writing it she listened to that like throughout
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the entire writing process like when we would go get coffee in the morning together that would be on and it's a
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baller playlist it's like I have to do that for each thing that I write it just puts me in a place I agree but um so
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that's fun and you can pre-order and pre-order ing is really fun I like pre-ordering we're going to be sneaking
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some Peaks out there little quotes from the book that we're going to be popping out onto social media every now and then
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so you can get a little taste of what you're getting into yeah and it'll be fun so you can go to the butcher
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game.com and that'll give you links to all the places you can pre-order the book y if you would like to do that and
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um again it's really cool because sometimes you get the book like a day before you're supposed to when you
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pre-order it and that's like a national holiday that's really fun I already finished it and I'm like really excited
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to read it again I love that I feel like I have to before it comes out like to the Earth to the Earth which I kind of
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feel like even reading it like for the first time like with my my my arc my Advanced I'm an advanced reader and I
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have a copy um like I feel like that was like my second go through cuz I always read it while you're writing it too but
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it's like bits and pieces I also can't wait to listen to the audio book yeah it's all very exciting it is all
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happening Shea Shay tonight I'm Vander pump rules and here in this office and you know what I guess we've gotten
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through all the fun stuff I know talked about all the frivolous stuff you don't think there's anything else talked about
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all the exciting stuff yeah and shouted some some podcasts out which we love to do which we love to do and now we have
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to get into part three of Fred and Rose West okay part three means 75% the end we're getting there this
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one's going to be tough but all of them are so again a blanket statement over all of them I'll give before each one
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I'm going to give you the the blanket trigger warning that this is very brutal sexual assault
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is all over this very brutal sexual assault and um there's you know child abuse there's abuse of all kinds it's
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it's really awful so you know if this isn't for you I get it and we'll give you something else in the next one so uh
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here we go when we last left off we talked about uh Linda Goff who went missing her mother June had showed up at
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the west house looking for her and Rose answered the door wearing Linda's slippers and she saw all her clothes she
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saw all her clothes hanging on a line in the backyard and Rose just told them yeah I don't know she said she was going
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to a hotel and said that and like told everybody else that she like hid her kids yeah that she had to let they had
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to let her go because she hit one of the kids like shut the [ __ ] up Rose it it
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only gets worse from there um after the murder of Linda Goff they waited seven months before finding their next victim
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they did go long periods of time sometimes between victims you wonder what they were doing in the middle of
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all that though that's the thing I'm like was all their eye on their children at that point like or there I mean I'm
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sure there's victims that we don't know about oh I'm positive there's victims we
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don't know about for sure the details of this one the abduction and murder are kind of murky you know like many of them
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because we're kind of going off of their accounts red and roses account and also
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you know the evidence that they could get from these things but you just kind of have to piece it together um but like
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many of Fred and Rose's victims Carol Cooper who was known as Cass oh what a isn't that a cool nickname Caz uh she
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had a difficult upbringing like most of them they seem to pray on these you know
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people who were vulnerable yeah um her parents separated when she was just four years old and she lived with her mother
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in 1966 when Carol was 8 years old her mother passed away oh God and she was sent to live with her father and when
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she reached adolescence she became you know according to people around her rebellious and defiant she got in
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trouble a lot she was kind of in and out of you know having issues with you know
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authorities and authority figures she would occasionally run away from home she was just going through it I mean I
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think if my mom died at 8 years old I might feel similar yeah so by the fall of 1973 Carol's father lost patience
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with the entire thing and she was placed at the pine children home in Worcester God uh this was about 25 mil from
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Gloucester now on November 9th 1973 Carol was given permission by the staff at Pines to go on an overnight visit to
00:11:42
her grandmother's house which like this whole thing is just really sad you know what I mean like you have to get
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permission to go to your grand I don't know it like it all just like makes my heart sad it does um but she was going
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to be coming back the next morning um to the Pines to attend a doctor's appointment so there was very strict
00:12:01
like this is what you're doing the next day Carol returned to Worcester for the appointment as expected but later that
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day her boyfriend dropped her off at the bus station around 9:15 p.m. the expectation that was she was going back
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to her grandmother's house but she was never seen again after being dropped off at the bus um and of course the bus stop
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now a huge very extensive search was made in the days following her disappearance but they couldn't find any
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evidence of her no sign of Carol no indication where she could have gone I mean it was like she vanished Into Thin
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Air investigators believe that what happened is Fred and Rose West picked Carol up while she was hitchhiking and
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brought her back to the house um I'm not sure why they think she was hitchhiking
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since there was a bus stop just going to ask I don't know where that comes into play but that is what most sources are
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saying um they believe she was brought back back to the house where she was tortured raped and murdered then
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dismembered by Fred and buried in the cellar my god when her remains were excavated from cuz she was buried in the
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cellar and then moved so she was excavated from her grave and they found the tape mask was still wrapped around
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her skull oh um and pieces of rope and braided cloth were also found in the grave and like the others there were
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several tiny bones missing from her hands and feet which is just so disturbing and that seems to be a thing
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yeah cuz you mentioned that in the last part with a couple of the bodies and there was also a cical vertebrae and
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breast bone that were missing whoa yeah investigators believe they were kept as trophies oh that's heinous while Carol
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appeared to have suffered the same fate as the you know their previous victims what they did find was something
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a little unusual with her yeah they found quote an unusual gouge Mark in the skull which suggested that Carol may had
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been stabbed in the head what yeah oh my God yeah and again she had the same like
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masking tape mask over her face and head like the that one piece of their pathology it's so disturbing I'm not
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kidding you in the middle of the night last night I woke up and it's all I could think about it just yeah I can't
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stop thinking about it it's just because it's like so there's so many layers to it like it's they're
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inflicting such Terror and panic and to think of even doing that well and they're also there's also clearly some
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kind of thing where they're dehumanizing this person they're taking away their face yeah they don't want to see them
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like you think about it like you remove the head from somebody's body they don't
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feel like a human anymore you know I mean like it takes away a little bit of the humanity there yep so covering their
00:14:50
head and face and masking tape makes them like a doll yeah and it's like that's like a whole other issue here
00:14:58
it's it's really a lot to think about yeah now up until this point we've said it many times most of like all the West
00:15:05
victims had you know a few things in common and one of the biggest things they had in common was that they had
00:15:11
very difficult or traumatic backgrounds or home lives like that's that's been like across the board and you know as
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goes often times the case with serial killers personal histories really makes like like these ones can make it easier
00:15:28
for them to grow room easier for them to manipulate of course easy to make them get into a car with a stranger accept a
00:15:36
ride on and unfortunately sometimes and this is why they choose people that have
00:15:41
difficult backgrounds sometimes they believe they're going to be less likely to be missed yeah because people are
00:15:46
going to believe that she they ran away oh they always disappear you know and these people these you know these kids
00:15:53
have been groomed their whole lives to survive yeah you know but they've so they'll get in a car with somebody to
00:16:01
get to the next place cuz they need to get there right you know like that's they're not thinking about oh this
00:16:06
person could be the end mhm and that it just like kills me that they picked people like kids that they believed no
00:16:13
one would look for like that's it's it's sad [ __ ] up yeah I I don't even know but their next victim came from a de
00:16:23
very different background really and her absence was very much noticed very quickly okay um 21-year-old Lucy
00:16:32
parrington was from an upper middle class family her father was a chemist her mother was an architect wow her
00:16:38
uncle Kingsley Amos was a well-known novelist oh okay um and unlike the previous the other you know the previous
00:16:47
young women who had were described as having like defiant personalities getting in some trouble
00:16:53
like you know kind of being a little nomadic in the sense that they would be in and out of you know
00:16:59
living situations Lucy was described as very popular she was a clever very very well-liked woman she was she would like
00:17:09
you know she followed the rules she didn't get into trouble she didn't disappear she had very close bonds to
00:17:16
people around her and in December 1973 Lucy was in her final year at exitor University where she was studying
00:17:23
medieval English oh that's cool which is such a cool I was like Wow Lucy seem cool they all they all seem like they
00:17:31
had these like unique personalities some of them weren't appreciated for those unique personalities um but she had also
00:17:38
recently converted to the Roman Catholic faith and took her spirituality very seriously okay so um that Christmas Lucy
00:17:46
had been staying with her mother in Gloucester for the break and on the uh night of the 27th she got a ride to
00:17:52
cheltonham to visit her friend Helen render now according to Helen they hung out together together they spent the
00:17:59
evening talking about furniture and working on Lucy's application to the Cal Institute in London because that's where
00:18:06
Lucy was hoping to actually continue her medieval studies wow so she was going to
00:18:10
keep going so they had like a nice night like you know for the future planning for the future hanging out talking like
00:18:18
just you know being friends Lucy had left Helen's house around 10:15 p.m. and she walked a short distance to the bus
00:18:25
stop oh uh she never boarded the bus and she was she wasn't even seen at the bus stop in fact but Helen said she was
00:18:34
walking to the bus stop maybe they got her like near the bus stop now when she didn't return that evening Lucy's mother
00:18:41
called the police immediately because again this is not this isn't a case of she could be coming later maybe she got
00:18:47
held up no like nope this isn't her the following day a massive search began and
00:18:53
given that she was an adult because she was 21 yeah um and it was a holiday there was a hope that maybe she had met
00:19:01
a boy or gone to visit more friends from investigators yeah um but obviously her
00:19:07
family knew that was not the case no and as the days passed even with the investigators that hope was seeming a
00:19:13
little misplaced they were like this isn't making sense right a police spokesperson told the Press six days
00:19:18
after Lucy went missing as time goes on we are getting more concerned but this girl has been very happy at the
00:19:24
University and if she had gone off we would hope that she would return with the rest of the students on Thursday now
00:19:30
the concern and anxiety and honestly Panic started to grow when Thursday came and went and there was still no sign of
00:19:37
Lucy she didn't show back up at the University um the chief superintendent Bill Turner said we must assume that
00:19:44
some harm has come to her from what we have been told by her relatives and friends she's is not the type of girl
00:19:50
that would disappear voluntarily now in the first weeks of January an extensive search went underway investigators were
00:19:56
dragging the local rivers and ponds any water sources uniformed air officers were conducting a door-to-door search
00:20:03
roadblocks were set up to question drivers alone along the main roads and nothing no sign of Lucy by mid January
00:20:12
detectives started to wonder whether there was a connection between The Disappearance of Lucy and Carol Cooper
00:20:17
ah uh who had gone missing two months earlier right um so a police spokesperson said details of the
00:20:24
Worcester case are being considered by us to determine the possibility of a link in the girl
00:20:29
disappearance now despite the suspicion that Lucy and Carol's cases were connected 20 years would pass before
00:20:37
investigators would finally learn what happened to both of those women 20 [ __ ] years 20 years they had no idea
00:20:47
what happened to Lucy and Carol and even when they found it out 20 years ago we're still getting vague details here
00:20:55
right Lucy unfortunately was among the bodies exed from the West Cellar oh that's so sad um she her body was
00:21:04
dismembered and they described it as being quote crammed into a shaft between leaking sewage pipes along with a rope a
00:21:11
knife a section of masking tape and two hair grips my God like the others there were several small bones missing from
00:21:20
her skeleton and although the details about what she must have endured while she was in that house are unknown
00:21:28
probably thankfully um detectives believed she was held captive in the west home for nearly a
00:21:36
week oh wow yeah so do you think cuz obviously this is now like a pattern of like the missing bones do you think that
00:21:44
was torture done while these girls were still alive or do you think it was when he when Fred dismembered them a trophy
00:21:51
kind of thing I could see it unfortunately both ways yeah I feel the same they are sadistic
00:21:59
right they're sadistic and just think like she was there a week like what were you doing to her for a week and they I
00:22:05
mean they tortured and they took great pleasure in torturing people so and they think she was there for a week cuz like
00:22:12
Fred admitted that she was um well this that belief is actually based on the fact that on January 3rd Fred checked in
00:22:19
at the Gloucester Royal hospital with a serious laceration on his right hand and
00:22:23
they believe he'd sustained this injury while he was dismembering her body oh okay yeah wow
00:22:31
mhm now when he was interrogated later Fred claimed that he and Lucy had been having an
00:22:37
affair Girl by which I'm like she wouldn't touch you with a 10 foot pole like you really thought people were
00:22:46
going to buy that and he said purely sex end of story okay nobody nobody nobody Fred no
00:22:55
no and according to Fred Lucy Had become pregnant and started making demands of him meanwhile it's like dude we have her
00:23:03
body we can tell if she's pregnant or not and also she got pregnant within a week like and also she has close bonds
00:23:13
to everyone around her right she wasn't gone like they didn't she never met you ex she didn't know who you were she
00:23:19
wouldn't have touched you with a tfot that's such a ridiculous story and he said she said I want to come and live
00:23:25
with you and all this crap and I just grabbed her by the throat her wanted me to see her parents her wanted me to do
00:23:31
Bloody everything given that Fred lied about literally everything in his life his background his victims everything
00:23:40
about I mean he was a lying sack of [ __ ] sewage yeah this is [ __ ] of course it is this is [ __ ] it makes
00:23:48
absolutely no sense we know enough about Lucy we know about enough about people she knows her family her friends
00:23:54
everybody around her to know that this is absolute horeshit and not only is it horeshit but how [ __ ] dare that piece
00:24:02
of [ __ ] it makes so much sense though cuz it's one more way for him to [ __ ] with her relatives and degrade her yeah
00:24:09
and it's like no you snatched her you kidnapped her you abducted her like [ __ ]
00:24:13
you she would never come like [ __ ] you dude I hate these people so much now it's completely it's [ __ ]
00:24:22
and the most likely scenario and the one put forth by the prosecution was that Fred and Rose saw Luc waiting for the
00:24:29
bus and offered her a ride right Lucy was not one for hitchhiking and was pretty cautious like by all accounts I'm
00:24:36
sure but and this is rough they suspect that one or more of the children was in the car and the presence of the children
00:24:45
put her at ease wow and that's like they put this forth during the trial that they believe that's what happened it
00:24:52
makes sense once they got her back to the house she went through you know a similar fate as the rest of the victims
00:25:01
and four months passed before Fred and Rose went out to get another victim so they go through big periods of time but
00:25:08
it seems to be after like a rather intense very brutal awful yeah on the evening of April 15th 1974 21-year-old
00:25:17
um theres I'm I hope I say her name right it's she's from Switzerland so I want to make sure I say it right theres
00:25:23
seen thaler um she went to a party at a friend's house to Mark the start of her vacation like I said she was born in
00:25:31
Switzerland right and theres had been studying for a secretarial degree at Woolwich poly Technic um her instructors
00:25:39
really liked her they said she was a very quiet girl but very confident yeah um on the night of the 15th she went to
00:25:45
a party in South London and stayed the night there and she told her friends her plan was to hitchhike back to North
00:25:52
Wales and take the ferry to Ireland um that was where she was going to be spending her break in Ireland
00:25:59
um and again all these all this hitchhiking and everything very normal for the time and for this area all the
00:26:04
time yeah now she was everybody was aware of the young women who'd gone missing in recent months and so her
00:26:12
friends kind of warned her about hitchhiking and we're like uh I don't know like it's getting a little scary
00:26:16
out there right now but theres just laughed and said I can look after myself I'm a judo
00:26:22
expert which I can understand that confidence of course so the following morning theres returned to her apartment
00:26:29
to grab a few personal items and then went to catch the ferry from Wills now assuming she had managed to get the boat
00:26:36
to her destination no one even realized theres had gone missing until she didn't
00:26:42
return to school the week after uh Easter break so they just were like oh she made it to the boat they just
00:26:48
assumed yeah why would they not right like that she told them their plan the plan okay she went and executed the plan
00:26:55
like why would we think anything else but then she didn't come back to school and they were like wait a second wait um
00:27:01
theres was reported missing to police on April 26th and investigators quickly learned that she had actually already
00:27:07
paid in advance for some of the upcoming tests that she had later that spring in
00:27:12
the Polytechnic University so she was she wasn't disappearing yeah she had plans she had she had paid in advance um
00:27:19
so it was very unlikely that she would just decide not to return and give up that money right now A search was
00:27:25
mounted but there was really again no evidence to work of she vanished there was no leads right she left she left to
00:27:33
go to the ferry and she didn't make it like where did she go yeah so the investigation just kind of went nowhere
00:27:39
and when they searched the house on Cromwell Street later investigators did find the remains of theres santhal are
00:27:45
buried in a grave in front of a false fireplace at their home so again she went missing no one knew anything years
00:27:55
went by and no one knew anything her family didn't know anything her friends didn't know anything she just vanished
00:28:03
in the thin air and then when they dig up finally like C Fred and Rose and dig up the Cromwell Street home they find
00:28:09
her I can't imagine that kind of like it's the same thing as all these other like as Lucy as like you know all these
00:28:17
people you have no [ __ ] clue like Carol you don't know what happened to them for years their family has no idea
00:28:22
no leads and you're filling in the blanks for all those years and just wondering what and and probably having
00:28:28
the little sliver of hope that maybe maybe they did just go off and they're living a life and everything's okay and
00:28:33
they just needed to be themselves who knows and then it's like and then you find out that they've caught these two
00:28:38
[ __ ] horrific serial killers and they're digging up their home and your loved one is one of those people like
00:28:45
your loved one has just been buried in their no idea that they were in the clutches of these people at any point in
00:28:51
their life and that must just be the biggest punch to the face absolutely like h
00:28:58
it's now it's beyond she was found in an awful way so I just want to be clear about that there were no clothes found
00:29:07
with her remains um but she had a scarf folded and rolled and formed in a loop around her head and tied in a
00:29:15
bow um detectives believe that it was used to secure her mouth oh my God it was literally tied in a bow that's the
00:29:24
most haunting detail yeah um and unfortunately Fred said very little about theres during his
00:29:34
interrogation but during Rose's trial the prosecutor pointed out that theres had no connections to the area and like
00:29:41
was likely pitched up picked up hitchhiking to the boat right and they said the only reason to abduct her must
00:29:47
have been so that she might be abused either sexually or physically or both yeah um and I believe it's so obviously
00:29:55
she was found in a horrific way there's one other victim that is found in like the thing that is found with her is very
00:30:03
unsettling just to be just so you're aware that that's you more than S months passed before they found another victim
00:30:12
and this one is 15-year-old Shirley hubard 15 years old yep so Shirley unfortunately was like some of the other
00:30:22
victims led a difficult life for someone so so young yeah and had a history of you know getting into trouble running
00:30:29
away that kind of thing after her parents separated when she was just 2 years old she actually was put into
00:30:34
foster care and bounced between a lot of homes until she was six when she was six
00:30:40
she was placed with a foster family named hubard and that's where she was living at the time she disappeared yeah
00:30:46
like several of the other victims Shirley had been in and out of trouble in the months before her disappearance
00:30:51
and had even run away just a month earlier so that's why it was tough when she disappeared because she had in this
00:30:58
like phase you know yeah well you wonder like you don't know what she was experiencing in like and and again she
00:31:06
had been through a lot so it's like she was they act out you know absolutely that happens now a few weeks later after
00:31:11
she was found after running away she had started dating a boy named Daniel Davis
00:31:16
whose brother coincidentally had dated Carol Cooper what the [ __ ] isn't that wild yeah but it just shows you what a
00:31:26
what an area this is this small concentrated area on November 14th Shirley spent the day working the makeup
00:31:33
counter at Deon Ham's department store in Worcester her shift ended that afternoon and she went met up with
00:31:39
Daniel and the two bought a bag of chips and sat by the river until around 9:30 p.m. and that's when Daniel walked her
00:31:46
to the bus station yeah a bus station and waited with her until the bus arrived wow like good boy good job
00:31:54
Daniel um they had plans to meet back at the bus stop the following day but surley didn't show up so he even waited
00:32:01
with her until the bus came right Daniel assumed at the time that she had found something else to do he felt a little
00:32:08
dejected he was like that's a bummer yeah um but soon after the Hubbards reported Shirley missing to police and
00:32:14
the investigation opened up but like the other girls it appeared as though she had vanished Into Thin Air right no
00:32:22
Trace but obviously what happened was far worse now now in court the prosecution speculated that Shirley had
00:32:30
either been kidnapped or somehow manipulated into going to the house on Cromwell Street willingly where she was
00:32:38
abused raped and murdered um her remains were discovered in a part of the basement investigators referred to as
00:32:45
the Marilyn Monroe Area what because the wallpaper in that section of the room was all Marilyn Monroe what which I
00:32:52
don't know why that just like gives me the it's such a strange du deposition now this is the one I was talking about
00:32:58
Shirley is the is the one that I was talking about that she's found in a really like unsettling manner manner in
00:33:06
court the pathologist who exume the body referred to it as quote an extremely horrific Discovery like the others
00:33:13
Shirley's head had been wrapped entirely in a tape mask but inserted through the
00:33:20
mask it was so inserted through it was a plastic tube placed in the nostril portion which protruded from the front
00:33:29
and a second piece of similar tubing was also found at the burial site when the prosecution asked what purpose this Mass
00:33:37
could have served the pathologist said quote that can only have been for sexual gratification so that her living but
00:33:44
restrained body could be used and abused at will oh my God that's like that part has been
00:33:53
sticking with me for days so they just kept her alive like that for however long just that she could
00:34:03
breathe out of her nose oh my God yeah how are people this sick that's I like how are people this
00:34:16
absolutely [ __ ] in the head humans and she's I like literally wanted yeah it makes me sick like my I've literally
00:34:24
feel sick to my stomach in this one like sick to my stomach stomach like that part I mean all of it
00:34:31
is just but that for some reason is just the image of that like the the VIS of that in my brain is I keep having to
00:34:40
wipe it away to try to make it go away because I'm like just I know don't even try to conjure that image in your head
00:34:46
cuz fortunately I've never I've never looked at any kind of crime scene thing about this no I could never and I will
00:34:51
not be doing that but the image my brain has conjured of that mask is a bad enough yeah I just I genuine like how
00:35:01
does your mind go there that's the thing I'm like who thought of that and how the
00:35:06
[ __ ] did they find each other dude yeah that's the thing and procreated and to think that surely is
00:35:13
in that state while there's what three four kids running around the house oh my God yeah oh like see that
00:35:22
and honestly like I'm not kidding you it makes my stomach turn no it's just a wild thing to imagine
00:35:28
Now by this point a pattern appears to have emerged where Fred and Rose are kidnapping and killing at least one
00:35:35
young woman every five or six months at least Y um and with the exception of Lucy and theres most have come from you
00:35:42
know you know dysfunctional upbringings like trauma upbringings unsurprisingly the victim profile is almost certainly
00:35:51
what allowed them to continue killing for as long as they did yeah uh in fact of the victims was that one missing at
00:35:58
the time the murder of Lucy was described as quote the one that attracts the most anger right which is sad yeah
00:36:05
and it was the one that received the most coverage because and part of that was because of her uncle's Fame as a
00:36:12
novelist yeah I wonder that um had people slth media expressed as much outrage over the other victims it would
00:36:19
have been different many of them you know cuz nobody was really expressing as much anger because they disappeared we
00:36:26
don't know where they went well they were runaway right and there's not like a there's not a ton of family members
00:36:32
like contacting the media or like getting in touch with anybody cuz unfortunately some of these girls just
00:36:37
didn't even have anybody exactly they either didn't have anybody or the people they had had been through these moments
00:36:44
of them disappearing for a little while so they were just like well you know and
00:36:48
then the media is like well they're runaway what's the story you know like they probably just ran away um and you
00:36:54
know they were in trouble and should always be a story absolutely and if they if again if people or the media had made
00:37:02
or expressed any outrage about these victims it's possible that connections could have been made yeah more
00:37:08
connections and connections to the wests themselves I mean maybe some of this Carnage could have been avoided which is
00:37:14
really frustrating but Wanita mat was a lot like the other young women who had been
00:37:21
picked up by Fred and Rose yeah um but in her case they didn't abduct her because she was lodging in their home
00:37:29
she was one of those Lodgers oneita parents divorced when she was very young and her home life had been difficult um
00:37:36
when she reached her teen years you know the same kind of story she was described
00:37:40
as rebellious very you know uh defiant very strong willed and so she dropped out of high school and left home when
00:37:49
she was just 15 years old and ended up bouncing around from you know one place to another just kind of staying wherever
00:37:56
she could trying to get by and that's finally when she found that cheap room for rent at 25 Cromwell Street and she
00:38:03
moved in for just7 per week and she had moved in during the summer of 1974 now despite the cheap rent charged
00:38:11
by Fred Juanita's income was pretty inconsistent and so she kind of would like bounce out of the house into the
00:38:18
house like she could pay it sometimes she couldn't pay it other times right and at the time of her Disappearance in
00:38:23
April 1975 Wanita was 18 years old and had been staying with a friend in the small town of newent in Gloucester Shere
00:38:32
um since she was unemployed at the time and didn't have money for public transit
00:38:36
she often would hitchhike or rely on that kind of thing to get around and investigators believe that Fred and Rose
00:38:43
would have regularly traveled through that place and they theorized that sometime on or around April 12th they
00:38:50
must have passed by oneita hitchhiking along the Route stopped offer a ride and she was like oh I've lived in their
00:38:56
house before I know them why would you think there's any danger you've literally lived in this house Liv in
00:39:01
their house like these are not strangers you're getting in a car with I know them
00:39:05
so she would have No Reservations about getting car with them and probably wasn't even alarmed when they returned
00:39:11
to the West's house rather than going where Wanita was headed yeah I'm sure they explained it away like oh I just
00:39:17
have to grab this or you know whatever because and she's like okay I know you guys it's fine yeah like no worries the
00:39:22
prosecution said during Rose's trial the conclusion is perfectly clear Wanita was
00:39:26
brought to Cromwell Street almost inevitably having been picked up whil hitchhiking she died while she was being
00:39:32
degraded either as being part of what her attackers found doubtless fun or because she could not be released
00:39:39
afterwards doubtless fun cuz they they had fun they said they admitted that they found that's the other thing it's
00:39:49
crazy to to like come across a story like this where people do these things and it's even crazier when they admit
00:39:56
how much Joy they got out of it that they had fun with someone in the most horrific Terror you can ever imagine you
00:40:05
I like your brain just doesn't comprehend how that's even possible like how how are their brains capable of
00:40:12
having fun when people are dying and at your hands like I don't obviously I don't get it no I just and that that's
00:40:22
why it's such a out of reality kind of thing when you look at it you're just like I don't connect with this as
00:40:31
another human being even because and this is like a silly example but it's just it's just a way when even on like
00:40:39
Tik Tok when like you know like like you know stupid influ like parent influencers will like scare their child
00:40:46
for likes yeah I hate that like that's [ __ ] up like [ __ ] you if you do that and I will get like so angry seeing that
00:40:53
I'm like no not interested like I'm like show that interested because seeing a child even when I know they're fine and
00:41:00
they're their parent is doing this to just be a dick because they want their likes seeing fear on somebody's face
00:41:08
like that especially a young person or sadness or any kind of like that will [ __ ] me up for the rest of the day like
00:41:16
I'll be like I will think about that kid I don't know for like the rest of the [ __ ] day even though they're
00:41:22
perfectly safe likely and everything is like and that's because that's how we're
00:41:26
designed as humans like you're supposed to empathy seeing someone in fear genuine
00:41:34
fear seeing someone in pain seeing someone sad seeing someone upset that's supposed to that's supposed to make you
00:41:42
stop you're doing to think of some and to think of one person completely void of that finding another person
00:41:50
completely void of that and teaming up is so beyond so much more than nightmarish I'm trying not to say Beyond
00:41:59
because I just keep saying it oh I didn't well it's honestly it feels like it just feels like existential you know
00:42:07
like it just feels like totally outside I can't it doesn't feel like we're on the same plane of reality which
00:42:14
like I don't think we are no we're definitely not like I really don't I don't feel like we are all on the same
00:42:20
plane of reality that Fred and rosemary west of the world are on I feel like there's just some disconnect there I
00:42:27
mean there's many disconnects but like there is I don't someday we'll know but like someday we'll find out what that
00:42:34
that disconnect is cuz I just can't I can't I cannot no it's these kind of things are just like so [ __ ] up we've
00:42:46
been doing this for six years and it's still absolutely never it will never fail to turn my stomach these kind of
00:42:56
stories and these specific kind of cases like these really gruesome ones they like the Myra Henley and especially it's
00:43:03
the couples that like for some reason really get me and even like the Albert Fish one I think cuz that was kids and
00:43:08
like this one obviously has kids it just it really sticks with you the people that are like just the the sadists who
00:43:16
find enjoyment yeah you know those are the ones that you're just like that I I don't even know if Psychiatry can
00:43:24
explain you I don't I don't think anything can explain like let's just go fully paranormal
00:43:30
honestly like this this this tough this one's been tough but don't worry we are going to we're going to take a little uh
00:43:38
I I'm going to need a paranormal a case that's not as heavy I think yeah hopefully I can do it I always say that
00:43:45
and then I end up being like sorry I'm doing a really awful case now yeah you've been hella brutal lately so maybe
00:43:51
I'll I'll find maybe I'll do like a spooky Road or spooky Castle something something you know or s tail there you
00:43:58
go sometimes those are like those we'll find something that you know I can I can
00:44:03
take a second for the next one yeah but now out of our any sense of being Humanity here once they got back to the
00:44:13
house investigators believe that Wanita was sexually assaulted and then was gagged with a ligature made from two of
00:44:22
rose's nylon socks and she was hog tied with plastic covered rope similar to that used on the washing line in the
00:44:30
backyard they were both they were all found in her grave with her remains that's awful it's so weird to think of
00:44:36
these people even like having socks and a washing line yeah they're like having having human things that's so human yeah
00:44:44
after she was killed Fred dismembered one's body and buried her in the basement alongside the others um he also
00:44:51
kept several of the bones again yeah by the time her remains were exuded in 199 before too much time had passed to
00:44:59
really say what the cause of death was but a pathologist speculated that given the way the ropes were tied cuz she was
00:45:06
tied up like hog tied yeah which is so he believes it was most likely strangulation that she was killed by but
00:45:14
he said there was also an unusual fracture at the base of her skull that was caused by what he believes is a
00:45:20
hammer oh my God but the angle at which it was inflicted would have prevented the amount of force necessary to kill
00:45:29
her so that was just so that would have not been her the Fatal blow oh my God yeah so she went through
00:45:38
that fully Alive oh yeah she went through Horrors oh yeah they remind me um of the uh the
00:45:49
toolbox Murders a little bit yeah um they did [ __ ] like this like torture now during their most prolific period in
00:46:00
the early to mid 1970s local police were not entirely ignorant to Fred and Rose West like they were known yeah they had
00:46:11
that whole [ __ ] court case where the judge was like I think it's fine it's fine and in fact throughout the this
00:46:16
period police often visited the house at Cromwell Street to interrogate Fred about Petty thefts or minor drug
00:46:23
offenses that he was regularly committing at the time to think thought they were just one floor above all of
00:46:29
these missing girls yeah and I'm like no one questioned if that was a safe place
00:46:36
for children I can't imagine that that that these people came off as Stellar parents like no one was thinking
00:46:44
maybe just throw a report in right like I mean these kids had already been dropped off and picked up from CPS or
00:46:51
how many times nobody wanted to make like some kind of wellness check on those children if he's committing like
00:46:55
offenses all the time and like even young 20s something year old nannies are like yeah the children seemed really
00:47:01
like completely different when the parents were around it's like you would think someone in law enforcement would
00:47:06
notice that well and given the like frequency with which young women were disappearing at the time during this
00:47:13
time period it's pretty [ __ ] up that they never suspected the west of being involved especially considering their
00:47:22
histories which we've already gone over that they got totally Scot away with one
00:47:27
y and they had known connections to some of these missing girls yeah like it's not like they were entirely not all of
00:47:35
them for sure like some of them really did just vanish Into Thin Air by all accounts and then were found later but
00:47:42
there were a couple that like at least had I mean lived in their house rented a room from them worked for them as a
00:47:48
nanny like like there were ones that you could victims that you could sit there and say okay well there is a connection
00:47:54
no one looked into it do you think they did and it was just that they just didn't have the evidence I don't know
00:47:59
but it's I mean do a search warant it seems like [ __ ] was everywhere well and it did seem that the increased attention
00:48:07
on Fred's you know Petty crimes at the time did seem to act as like somewhat of a deterrent for them okay um at least
00:48:13
for a little while because after the murder of Wanita three years passed before they killed again that we know of
00:48:20
I was going to say now Fred and Rose may have put a hold on the murders between mid 1975 and you know the middle of
00:48:28
1978 but that didn't mean that they stopped victimizing girls entirely they just we just don't know if they murdered
00:48:35
anyone um with an increased focus on missing women in the area it would have been unwise on their part if you're
00:48:43
looking at it from their point of view to keep abducting girls yeah so instead they shifted their attention to girls
00:48:49
living at Jordan's brook house which was a home for troubled girls nice it was established in 1970 as kind of a last
00:48:57
stop for teenagers who'd been kicked out of every other institution and Foster home right um this home was less of a
00:49:03
care facility and it was kind of like borderline Juvenile Detention Center OH for Fred and Rose these were precisely
00:49:11
the type of vulnerable and emotionally fragile young women that Fred could manipulate y in the summer of 1976 a
00:49:18
15-year-old resident referred to only as miss a moved into Jordans Brook after 2
00:49:24
years spent bouncing around between other placements um before that she had lived with her bi
00:49:29
biological parents but was removed from the home once authorities learned that she was actually being sexually abused
00:49:35
by both her father and her brother oh my God I mean these poor girls yeah like you hear like again just a life of
00:49:43
knowing nothing going through it but awful [ __ ] yeah and like not having any home and by that point Fred had made a
00:49:52
habit of offering these girls rides whenever he saw them on the street so like yeah he was using this
00:49:58
philanthropic and he would quickly become a shoulder to cry on for some of these girls and included Miss now a few
00:50:05
months after moving in Miss ran away from the school and went right to the west house because she probably had
00:50:12
built her relationship with Fred like not like a romantic one but yep but she was met at the door by Rose who was
00:50:20
dressed quote only in her Bron pants and made sexual advances towards Miss gross
00:50:27
it's unclear whether anything occurred at the time but according to a court testimony given at Rose's trial uh miss
00:50:33
a returned to the house a little over a month later and that's when she was talked into where she was sexually
00:50:40
assaulted by Fred and Rose yeah according to that testimony she was taken into a room where there were two
00:50:47
other naked girls who she did not know after being undressed by Fred the girls were secured with packing tape and
00:50:54
sexually assaulted by both Rose and Fred oh my God mhm next they taped miss a to
00:51:02
the bed and quote Frederick West had sexual intercourse with her while Rosemary West fondled her thighs I hate
00:51:11
that they say he had sexual intercourse that bothers no he raped her he raped she's a 15 16-year-old girl he raped her
00:51:20
and she's taped to the bed what the [ __ ] are you saying sexual intercourse with
00:51:23
her he raped her they both raped her oh my God this is so horrible after the assault the girl was allowed to leave
00:51:31
likely because Fred and Rose assumed that she wouldn't say anything about the attack have anybody to tell thing who's
00:51:39
she going to tell and she I'm sure they thought she wouldn't be believable anyway and she didn't she didn't tell
00:51:44
anybody cuz she didn't have anybody a few weeks later miss a returned to the house with a can of
00:51:50
gasoline she' taken from the gardening shed at Jordan Brook intending to burn the house down but definitely say that
00:51:57
he had sexual intercourse with her again yeah totally they raped her and she was
00:52:03
[ __ ] angry and I don't blame her for being angry and honestly I wish she had been able to yeah but she's a literal
00:52:11
child yep she's a child so she lost her nerve when she reached the door and went
00:52:16
back to Jordans Brook wow when the prosecutor asked why she didn't report the assaults to anyone Miss said it was
00:52:23
because quote she felt ashamed and guilty oh which is so that's exactly what Rose and Fred want yeah they that's
00:52:32
exactly what they want and that's what so many women and men feel when they're sexually assaulted yeah you feel ashamed
00:52:39
feel guilty the abuser prays upon of course and that's what that's exactly what they do when Fred and Rose did
00:52:45
decide to kill again they chose yet another victim who is unlikely to be reported missing it's unclear how they
00:52:52
first met or how the relationship actually began um but sure an Robinson was either 17 or 18 years old when she
00:53:00
met Fred West in the spring of 1977 and their relationship quickly became sexual um like many of the other victims
00:53:08
surely had come from a very difficult background and had been placed in foster care periodically throughout her entire
00:53:14
life in April she moved in with Fred and Rose and at least at least initially the
00:53:19
sexual relationship was with both Fred and Rose and it was consensual according to all involved okay but things changed
00:53:27
when Shirley became became pregnant with Fred's baby and Rose became abusive towards her like an McFall Shirley who
00:53:36
had been raised in chaos saw this baby as her ticket to stability in a future with Fred it's the same kind of story it
00:53:46
is um in November 1977 she wrote to her father in Germany to tell him all about her new relationship and even included a
00:53:54
a picture of her and Fred holding hands wow saying quote this is the man I'm going to marry what do you think of him
00:54:00
Dad I've never been so happy in my life oh no now whatever she said in her private letters was one thing but
00:54:07
eventually Shirley began telling others in the house that she and Fred were going to be married which rose did not
00:54:13
like uhhuh by late fall things in the west house had become wildly tense Fred had begun working with fro his father to
00:54:22
build a small Cafe downtown which it's like so he's just building Cafe downtown no thank you don't you dare get anywhere
00:54:31
near a cup of coffee Fred no don't you do it and the two men plan to operate as a small business together um but the
00:54:38
stresses of that project had increased the fighting between Rose and Fred because they were pieces of [ __ ] and
00:54:43
they hated each other in all actuality like they could neither one of them knows love you know like that's not how
00:54:49
that works um and they had taken it out on Shirley as well by the time the cafe project was finished
00:54:56
Rose had successfully convinced Fred to end his relationship with Shirley um at at this point their attitudes towards
00:55:03
Shirley became very cold and very hostile yeah now eventually the tension became too much and Shirley moved out of
00:55:11
her room in the main house and started sleeping on the couch of another lodger uh Liz Brewer who lived on the second
00:55:17
floor okay still at the house yeah one day in early May Liz Brewer returned home to find Shirley and her belongings
00:55:24
completely gone from the room so so she asked Fred where she had gone and he told her she'd gone to visit relatives
00:55:30
in Germany yeah given that Shirley was more than 8 months pregnant and her baby was
00:55:35
due to be born the following months that seemed a little strange to Liz that she
00:55:39
would just be jumping on a plane eight months pregnant but she didn't know Shirley that well so she didn't really
00:55:45
question it that much CU she was like okay like and she's probably seen all kinds of weird [ __ ] around this house
00:55:50
she like I'm not getting my nose in it now unlike the other murders which were committed you know
00:55:56
because they are [ __ ] up and they got some kind of gratification sexual and otherwise from them investigators
00:56:03
believe that the murder of shirleyanne Robinson was committed because she presented a threat to Red Fred and uh
00:56:08
Rose's relationship according to Rose yeah um while the other bodies appeared to have been dismembered in a methodical
00:56:15
man manner Shirley's body appeared to have been quote hacked into pieces with either an axe or a Cleaver
00:56:24
and he's first of all he's able to do all of this to all of these women but there's a almost like fully grown baby
00:56:32
in her belly like like people have babies at 8 months like he just killed a baby too his baby his own baby mhm and
00:56:42
like dismembered he just killed his own baby infant and dismembered yep both people
00:56:50
yep what why did I not remember this from like I've heard this case before I did not know any of this because I never
00:56:57
looked this hard into the case until now I mean I've heard it like I knew the overview of of things I
00:57:04
did not know all these details wow once he had finished dismembering or hacking apart Shirley's body Fred buried her in
00:57:12
the back Garden because he'd run out of space in the basement okay he had run out of space ran out of
00:57:19
space now taking Fred at his word that he that surely had gone back to Germany no one reported Shirley missing and
00:57:28
assumed she had just gone to visit family in Germany that's where her family was yeah so no one here could
00:57:34
could say otherwise a short time later when the Department of Social Services reached out to Shirley at Cromwell
00:57:39
Street which was her last known address they were told she no longer lived there
00:57:44
the DSs worker on the case Peter Gregson just couldn't shake the feeling that something at the west house wasn't right
00:57:52
that's a pretty solid feeling and he didn't believe the explanation he was given about her having gone back to
00:57:57
Germany and he but the problem was he had little authority to press the matter any further and the case was
00:58:04
closed but he was like trying he was like something's aiss By 1979 Fred was often preoccupied with the cafe at this
00:58:13
point because now he's got a thriving business everybody [ __ ] that's yeah what
00:58:18
and Rose was not a cafe yeah a cafe and Rose was supplementing the income by engaging in sex work which Fred would
00:58:26
often watch through one of the various peep holes he'd installed in the walls of the room that Rose used to entertain
00:58:33
clients okay so maybe it was this voyerism that was enough to satisy him for a little while
00:58:43
being but for whatever the but whatever the reason more than a year went by before they killed
00:58:48
again and we're going to stop there that's good cuz I'm about to a lot break into pieces it's more is coming so I I'm
00:58:59
going to stop there before part four which is going to be the final part cuz it it needs to be the final part yeah
00:59:08
okay so we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird bye bye oh my [ __ ] god dude yeah
00:59:23
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