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Hey weirdos. I'm Ash. >> And I'm Elena. >> And this is a bonus episode. >> It's a bonus bonus episode.
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>> And that is our new intro. [Music] >> Yeah. No kidding. That's not We're We're
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going to work it. >> Yeah. We're going to think of something fun as an intro for bonus episodes.
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You've probably heard it right now. >> Yeah, you already you already heard it perhaps.
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>> But yeah, we need some good music and hopefully you just heard some. >> But if you didn't, if you or if you
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heard good music, but it's the same theme song as regular Morbid, then we're still thinking on it, you know. So, just
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bear with us. >> We're working on it. >> We're working on it. All right, brothers. So, today we are here to talk
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to you for our very first ever bonus episode on Sirius XM. This is so exciting. >> I just took one sip of Actually, we had
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to pause for a second to make sure that the recording was like working. So, the intro and then now one sip of coffee.
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I'm a change. >> Yeah. The energy is has shifted just in about 5 minutes. >> I am Laura Gilmore. Actually, you are
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Lauraai Gilmore. >> Yeah. >> And I'm Rory. >> Yeah. But only sometimes. >> Yeah.
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>> Like in only in some ways. >> Pretty much only when we have coffee, coffee, coffee.
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>> Exactly. So, so we're going to be talking today about Unknown Number: The High School Catfish,
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>> honey. Okay, wait before you say anything else. There are going to be spoilers.
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>> Spoilers. >> Spoilers. Spoilers. If you don't want to be spoiled, go watch it now and then
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listen, my brother in Christ. >> If you listen to it first, you will be spoiled and that won't be our fault.
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It's not my fault if past this point you get a [ __ ] spoiler >> because we are going to talk about it
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>> and we are going to talk about all of it. >> All right. So, let's get into it.
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>> Let's do this. And we're going we're going to like do it so we don't reveal the twist until
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>> until the twist is revealed. >> Exactly. >> Okay. So, we're in Beiel City, Michigan.
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It's a It's like central Michigan. It's a super tiny town. It seems like everybody knows everybody. It also seems
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like people are like lifelong residents. And um we so we watched the documentary
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and then we also found a cut article um written by Lauren Smiley that gave like a little more information and she was
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saying like even a lot of these parents are lifelong residents of Beiel and like
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if you're not a lifelong resident, you do feel somewhat of an outsider. >> That makes sense. And isn't it like the
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the school is like preschool to 12th grade? >> Yeah. All in the same building. Yes.
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>> Which to this It's my opinion. >> It's my opinion. >> That's wily to me. Like that is
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horrifying to me. >> Bonkers. >> Yeah. I can't imagine my kindergartener in the same school as a 12th grader.
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>> That's just not for me. But I guess each class of kids like is 60 kids. >> Yeah.
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>> So they can all just fit in one building, which is nuts. >> No, it makes sense for the
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>> what it is. >> Yeah. But I completely agree with you. No, it is scary. So, we start off the
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film and um we started off with a threat. It says all with a literal code 10 threat code red. All the texts in
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this film are real, it says. And I said, and you'll know, you'll find out why that's a threat
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>> very shortly, very quickly. >> So, we're introduced to Lauren and Owen. They started dating when they were like
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12. And I think they were probably like around like seventh grade. And it's funny because when I was reading the Cut
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article, it turned out Owen's parents also started dating in seventh grade. >> That's crazy.
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>> Yeah. So, their families ended up becoming good friends, especially their mom's Jill and Kendra. Jill is Owen's
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mom and Kendra's Lauren's mom. >> Mhm. >> So, they like it's it all seemed really
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cute like >> Yeah. You know, >> cute small community. Yeah. >> Everyone supports each other.
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>> Exactly. So October 2020 rolls around and this girl Chloe Wilson's family always has this big Halloween party. Uh
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>> sounds pretty sick. >> It sounds like a sick ass Halloween party. >> It's like a haunted [ __ ] corn maze or
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some [ __ ] >> Yeah, it's moderately exclusive evidently. Um Lauren was not invited,
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but Owen was. >> Oh. >> So Owen ends up inviting Lauren because they're together.
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>> Oh, okay. Okay. So, right around this time, >> Lauren gets a text telling her that Owen
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doesn't like her. He likes whoever this unknown texter is, and they are both DTF.
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>> Down to [ __ ] >> Down to [ __ ] I was going to say for my for my homies out there who don't know
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what DTF is, down to [ __ ] >> Yeah, I only know what it is. Um because >> No, not even that.
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>> I didn't even realize that was in there. I I only know it from um on Southern
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Charm. Uh Shep said it about somebody and then immediately regretted it because that person was like, "Go [ __ ]
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yourself." And I thought it was funny. >> I don't I remember who that is. >> It was Bailey.
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>> Oh. >> And remember he was like cuz like that was shitty to say. >> Yeah, it is shitty.
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>> Cuz he said it in like a jokey way and she was like, "You're an asshole." >> Yeah. And she was like, "I don't want to
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[ __ ] you." >> Uh she was a queen. >> She was a queen and she was I think she was like the one that got away. I think
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she was too >> be a better person. >> Be be better. But can we can we clarify too? Um this whole text comes through
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that's like DTF [ __ ] >> These are like 13year-olds. >> Not even yet. They're 12.
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>> They're 12. >> 12. >> Nobody's DTF at 12. >> Nobody should. And nobody should be
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saying DTF at 12. Nobody. >> Oh, I find a text in my kid's phone someday that says an acronym that I have
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to Google, I'm sure, at that point. And it and it's anything like DTS. >> It's going down for real.
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>> Lock down. Lock down in the home. >> All of a sudden it's like >> it's like a purge.
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>> Let the bodies hit the floor. Starts playing. >> I'm like, "Well, you live here forever
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now." So, >> honestly, valid. >> So, the texts come in like that and they're pretty shitty.
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>> Yeah. >> Then they stop for a year. They literally stop for an entire year and
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then all of a sudden almost 365 days later they start up again and they start up and they go every single [ __ ] day
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multiple times a day essentially like sun up to sundown. >> Oh yeah. And they said that the
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nighttime texts cuz it was it wasn't even sun up to sun down. It was like through the night
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>> past sundown. Oh, yeah. >> Because they said the night ones would get particularly like nasty, which is
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interesting. >> Yeah. >> Like that's it's very interesting when you find out uh what's going on here.
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>> Yeah, definitely. So, some of the texts and these texts are being sent to Lauren
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and Owen at this point. Both of them. Mostly to Lauren, though. >> Um some of them said, "Fining trash,
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[ __ ] Don't wear effing leggings. No one wants to see your anorexic ass." like that.
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>> So upsetting >> that the anorexic thing is such a thing that gets said like it's such a weird
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insult. >> It is a weird insult and it's like common, >> you know, that's a common insult. I I
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used to hear that all the time in uh middle school. >> Oh, I've been on both ends of that
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spectrum cuz I was a lot tinier when I was in middle school and I got anorexic then and then I got like obese [ __ ]
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when I was in high school. I was like awesome. >> Why are we Why are we commenting? First
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of all, cuz it's like they're all assuming and you know, like that this is cuz especially because this is somebody
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saying like Owen is down to [ __ ] them that this is a girl. >> Yeah. >> And it's like why are we commenting as
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women and girls on other girls and other women's bodies? Can we stop doing that?
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>> Because also like growing up, I remember being like 9 years old and becoming aware of my body and becoming aware that
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I didn't like it. >> And you absolutely should never be aware of that. It shouldn't even be a thought
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in your mind. >> But that's the thing like young girls so early learn to be their biggest critics
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and then they grow up almost immediately becoming critics of each other. >> Yeah.
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>> Because they and you have to be so care like I don't allow anybody to talk about
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weight. >> No. >> Or bodies in that way around my kids >> because there's so many different
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reasons why bodies look the way they look and one is not better than the other for any reason. It's just not
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something you're healthy and your doctor's not concerned. You look great. >> That's the thing. I'm like, you go to
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your yearly physical, you're told that you're healthy. >> They say thumbs up >> and that's all that matters. You don't
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need to hear anything else about what's going on. >> I totally agree with that. And that's
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something I'm going to adopt when I have kids. No weight talk. >> We don't want any weight talk around
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them. And it's like, so for like >> then you call it like anor cuz like you know like girls especially at her age
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like seventh grade and [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> Like 12 years old. you're like every kid
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is like gangly at some point and just trying to like their body's just like growing into itself. You know what I
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mean? Or they're holding on to like extra baby weight and it's like and they're trying their body's trying to
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grow out of that. Like everybody's in that weird in between area where you're either like weirdly gangly and like
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noodly and like nothing makes sense and you're just this like skeleton with like
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a little bit of flesh on it >> or you're just like trying to figure it out and your body's not growing fast
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enough to like catch up with the baby weight you had on. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Like everybody's so different at that
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time and it's like all weird. It's all weird. I feel like sixth, seventh, and eighth grade especially are so hard for
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that reason and obviously like so many other reasons cuz uh one thing that they I forget who said it in the article. I
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think the principal said it um eventually that this is like the age where you start to break off from your
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parents too and you like really get involved in your friend group and you like break away.
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>> Yeah. It's like an inside out. Yeah, >> her her family island gets smaller and
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her friend island gets bigger and kind of hides the family island. >> And it does because it's like this age
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where you're trying to navigate all of this and people saying everything about you and you starting to like
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self-criticize and you're also at the same time kind of >> like taking away your own support
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system, you know, like it's a weird time unknowingly. Exactly. >> Like pushing away your own support
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system, >> right? So, beyond uh that awful text message, there was worse ones even. Uh,
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you are worthless and mean nothing. You never have. Get a [ __ ] life out of here. Owen will never look at you again
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or talk to you. You [ __ ] up his life so bad. His family [ __ ] hates you for it. He will never in his life
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acknowledge you again. Get the [ __ ] lost, [ __ ] He's [ __ ] done with you. >> That is like so unhinged.
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>> Just like you don't mean anything. You're worthless. Get a life. His family hates you. Like even making her d her
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her support system beyond her own family like when that's diabolical for a kid to
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write to another kid like a peer. >> Yeah. >> It's this is diabolical. >> Well and then and I should mention too
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so like saying his family [ __ ] hates you. So like his mom and dad were a big part of his life but he also has a
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younger sister who was in the friend group too. So Lauren's like okay does Macy hate me? Is this like does Jill
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hate me? Does Dave hate me? Who hates me? And why do they hate me? And why have I [ __ ] up his life?
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>> And now she's wearing like that adults don't like her. Like now it's like going
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beyond like it's just like what? Like what is going on? And also like what is this about? Like what what the hell?
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>> It's wild. So then the texts start getting insanely sexual. like >> messages when you w I'm not going to
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like say all of them because I I'm not capable of saying some of the things that this person wrote.
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>> The narrator in this was like it's not funny by any means, but the narrator was
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cracking me up because it's like almost a robotic voice. It is. It's got like a very like
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>> Yeah. >> It's very It's computeresque. So, it sounds like if you if you've ever seen and again the the
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the like information being told is not funny. I'm saying the voice is funny. Agreed. If you've ever seen The Office
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and there's an episode where Michael finds out that his computer can like talk to text
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>> and or like text talk. Yeah. Yeah. and he puts like eyes on it on the back of
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it and like a mouth and then has people come in the office and he just types things out and it's like
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and he's and he'll be like and it's just like hello Pam, you look particularly hot today.
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>> It's just Yeah, that's what it sounds like. >> That's what it felt like. It's like that
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kind of weird robotic voice that just makes it so unhinged. >> And like in the office apparently it's
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like you look hot today. these text messages. We're talking about like tits, BJ's,
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creaming, like >> literally that's not even that that is a verbatim. >> I I didn't want to say any of that.
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Especially the latter of that makes me want to jump into traffic like it's too much.
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>> It's all [ __ ] that if this if this is like her peers, you're like, >> "What the [ __ ] How is that coming out
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of a literal child's mouth? One, how do they know any of those words? >> Yeah. >> And two, like, you're too young. You're
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too young to know all those words. Like, what the [ __ ] is going on? You're a baby.
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>> And it's like they're talking about like >> literal sex acts. >> Yeah. They're talking like they like
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mention like somebody's dick. Like >> they mention like >> crazy. They they mention insanely
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explicit things. And you'll see it if you watch it. >> Yeah. And when we get to like where
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we're going to reveal who it is, we'll get further into how wild this is. >> Yeah.
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>> One of them just to like like one of the actual verbatim ones was he wants sex
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BJs and making out and making out. >> And it's the way the narrator says it. He's like and making out.
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>> Yeah. He's like making out. >> I'm like damn. >> So the once that started happening
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because these are literal like 12, 13 year olds maybe. I don't even think they're 14 at this point. The parents,
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including especially Jill and Kendra, because these are their kids being victimized, went to the school and the
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superintendent ended up getting involved and obviously so did the principal. Now,
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basically what they did as a school, which it's interesting because at one point Kendra, Lauren's mom is like, "I
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didn't think they were doing enough." And I was like, "It sounds like they were doing a lot." Because what they did
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was they set up surveillance so that anytime a text came in they could look at the cameras and see who like what
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student was on their phone at that point. >> I thought it was like pretty it was
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especially this is a remember a small community and this is a small town. These are like you know like they don't
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have all this resources to do [ __ ] and they were really like doing like grunt work trying to like investigative work
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trying to figure out who this could be. Well, and when you think about all the things that I'm sure school like I don't
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know all the things a school administrator has to do throughout the day. >> I imagine it's a lot
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>> but I would assume it's a lot and like to take the extra time to be able to do
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this. >> Yeah, it sounds like they took it seriously especially in the beginning.
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>> I think so. Yeah. So then Laur people started to actually think that Lauren was sending the text to herself to get
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attention which is really sad because she definitely wasn't. >> Yeah. Uh, but after some sitdowns with
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the admin at school, they ruled her out and they also ruled Owen out. I don't I'm not exactly sure how they did it,
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but they I think something with the surveillance. >> Yeah. >> So, also, you said something [ __ ]
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hilarious at this point cuz I think the principal was like, "There's a lot of kids in this school. Like, you can't
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rule anyone out." And that's why we had to do the surveillance. And I was like, and I stand by it. I
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feel like we can pretty like confidently rule out the preschoolers. Yeah, definitely the preschoolers. I was
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dying. She could feel good about that. >> Goes, I don't know. I feel like we could
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probably rule out the preschoolers. >> I feel like they're not involved. >> She was like, I don't know. Who am I to
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say? But >> like I feel like I I feel confident in that. Like that's just me. I feel like
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even the kindergarteners, we can probably, you know, rule them right out. >> Yeah. You get to first grade.
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>> You get to first grade and things get really wy now. So, I don't really know.
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But >> they have like Apple watches and [ __ ] >> But preschool and kindergarten, I think
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we're safe. We've cut out a little portion of the community, you know. >> I think so. Yeah.
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>> Yeah. And, you know, less to watch. >> It's true. >> So, once they cut out the
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kindergarteners and the preschoolers, they they kept their eye on everyone else.
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>> And at the same time, Jill and Kendra were getting together on their own a lot
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to talk about the text messages because Lauren's getting her own set, Owen's getting his own set, then they're
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probably getting like group messages. So, they're comparing notes basically and probably feeling like thank goodness
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they have somebody they can >> go to to talk about misery with like it's not just their kid that's going
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through it. Like >> cuz I imagine if this was just happening to your child, you must feel so [ __ ]
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isolated and alone and just wanting help figuring out what to do. So, like to have that
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>> like you don't want it to be happening to both your kids, but like you have each other to try to figure this out
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with, >> right? So they went together to talk to the principal themselves once they they
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were like can you do more and he was like I really can't I suggest you change their numbers block the texter something
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like okay when we were watching this cuz Ash had already watched it and then watched it with me for the first time me
00:17:34
watching it for the first time >> I literally said I was like I I knew that who had done this so I immediately
00:17:40
like checked my own question basically but I was like I Why aren't they just changing the numbers? Like, right? Like,
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shut down that line, get a new number, give them a new phone. >> Or I mean, now especially
00:17:59
little kids, you can get them like phones that are just >> for calling and texting people you
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approve >> and that you can approve all the apps and all that stuff. And it's like maybe
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you have to do that for a little while just to like see if how it stops and see if you can figure out something via
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that. And while you're figuring it out, you hang on to those other phones >> so your kids don't let anybody know
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except their like close friends who has that new number. >> And then see if somebody infiltrates.
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>> Smart. >> Because if they're only telling their close friends who those numbers are and
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you're approving them, boom, you're >> got to be one of the close friends. >> And then you hold on to those other
00:18:33
phones and you can start doing some investigation. >> It could have worked. I was a little
00:18:37
confused why that didn't happen. >> Well, so basically they said blocking the number didn't work because the
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texter was using one of those like random number generators. I think it was pinger,
00:18:46
>> which should absolutely be outlawed. >> Yeah, there's no reason to ever disguise
00:18:51
your phone number. >> Why does that exist? >> Nope. No, no, no, no. >> Yeah. >> So, they couldn't block it because
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another text would just come in. Whoever was doing this had the number and that's
00:19:00
all they needed because they could just get phone number after phone number to continue text. And they also said they
00:19:07
didn't want to get their their kids new phones because they wanted to get the to
00:19:11
the bottom of who this was, which I do understand because and Jill said it, um Owen's mom, she was saying like this
00:19:17
could have been somebody that we were letting into our lives because this community is so small and obviously this
00:19:23
person knew a lot about our kids, knew like where they were at what time, what they were wearing sometimes. So we
00:19:30
didn't want to continue inviting somebody like that into our home. And if we had if we had gotten them new phones
00:19:35
and like that person didn't end up getting those numbers, we would never know who that was and we would keep
00:19:41
spending time with them, you know. >> Yeah. And I totally get that. >> So I did understand that.
00:19:46
>> That's why the the phones that you only approve the numbers would have worked.
00:19:50
>> It's true. So Lauren and Owen at like they're very far into this because this
00:19:56
was I think ultimately this went on for like was it was 20 months, right? Almost
00:20:01
two years. So, like like a good amount of the of the way into this all happening, Lauren and Owen started
00:20:07
fighting with each other because this caller would be like, "Oh, like he wants me. He hung out with me. Me and him went
00:20:14
to a hotel this weekend. His family likes me." So Lauren's going to Owen and being like, "Who are
00:20:21
>> were you hanging out with this girl?" >> Right? Like, "Were you hanging out with
00:20:23
this person?" And Owen's like, "No." >> But so they started fighting because of all the tension and they ended up
00:20:28
breaking up. And Owen thought that maybe if they broke up, the messages would stop and Lauren would not, you know, be
00:20:35
going through what she was going through anymore. He could end what he was going
00:20:38
through. And then he said like, "Maybe, you know, try again someday." Which was so sweet cuz I'm like, "You little
00:20:44
beans." >> I know. >> You little 13-year-old. >> They liked each other. >> They did. They were so cute together.
00:20:49
>> Sad. >> But the thing was after they broke up, the messages got a million times worse.
00:20:55
>> Now the bullies won. You never want to give him the the the prize. >> So they started telling Lauren to kill
00:21:02
herself. >> This is where it just like >> multiple times a day texting her how worthless she was, how she should just
00:21:12
kill herself because Owen didn't like her and didn't want to be with her anymore. How they wrote um #bangbang
00:21:20
do it now. Literally kill yourself now, [ __ ] >> Yep. >> #bang bang. Yep. >> Like
00:21:28
how that And the worst part is nobody can do anything. >> No. >> Because they can't figure out who this
00:21:35
is. So this person's literally texting death threats. >> Mhm. >> And they just get away with it.
00:21:39
>> Yep. And they're also It seemed like they were stalking her at this point, too, because like I said before, like
00:21:45
whoever this was knew where they were at certain points in time. And then like they knew how Lauren was doing in
00:21:50
basketball games and they were trying to tear her confidence down in her and her
00:21:54
dad said that she's an incredible athlete. Like I think she played basketball and either softball or
00:22:00
baseball, who knows what else, but she was really talented, like a great athlete.
00:22:05
>> And this whoever this person was knew that and they were trying to break that
00:22:08
confidence. So like if she didn't get a ton of points in a basketball game, they'd be like, "Wow, like how
00:22:13
embarrassing. You suck. Kill yourself. Quit basketball." And they knew how many points you would get.
00:22:18
>> They knew specifically how many points. >> And what that one game they said like
00:22:21
two points, haha, you suck. >> Yep. >> So that is when Sheriff Mike Maine got involved. Everybody started getting very
00:22:29
worried about the trauma surrounding all of this. I also think that um I read in
00:22:34
the um the cut article that Jill herself had read an article or like saw news about somebody bringing a gun to school
00:22:40
in another community and she was like, "What if all of this >> they get pushed that far?"
00:22:45
>> Exactly. pushes them that far. So that's when the sheriff got involved >> cuz they were also writing [ __ ] like
00:22:50
we're going to break you, like we won't stop till we break you. It's like what the [ __ ]
00:22:55
>> And also at that point they're like okay is this a group of people and how do we
00:23:00
>> how do we figure out who this is all coming from? And I also understand like it was coming from multiple different
00:23:07
numbers too. So yeah, [Music] Sheriff Mike Maine starts looking at this one particular girl, Chloe. Chloe,
00:23:28
remember, she's the one who um her family has like the big Halloween party. >> She had somewhat of a reputation for
00:23:33
being a bully at the school. like administrators seem to have talked to her a few times. Her parents got called
00:23:39
in and like there was just incidents. >> Yeah. >> And the reason she specifically got
00:23:44
called in for this is because the texter said something about how they had the most points in the game.
00:23:49
>> And when they looked at the points and on the scorecard, it was Khloe who had
00:23:53
the most >> and Kendra helped them out with that. >> Kendra helped them out with that.
00:23:56
>> Lauren's mom because >> because she's the scorekeeper and at one point she'd also been the girls coach.
00:24:01
>> Yeah. uh basketball coach and also it was Khloe's Halloween party where this all started and Lauren originally hadn't
00:24:08
been invited and like didn't want to go so they kind of felt like they had a hot
00:24:12
lead here. >> Well, and I think like her and Owen were >> her and Owen after Lauren broke up
00:24:18
>> friends >> and they had like crushes on each other. >> So there was just a and I think there
00:24:23
was just like never a great relationship between Khloe and Lauren because of that
00:24:27
like lingering what's going on here kind of thing. Basically, at this point in time, all roads were leading to Khloe
00:24:33
Wilson. And I do kind of get why >> you get why they >> they went down that road.
00:24:38
>> So Khloe's friends moms were looking at their phones the because they're like,
00:24:42
"Is this group of Khloe's friends doing this? Like are they all doing it together?" Parents were reaching out to
00:24:47
other parents, to the school, to the coaches. Everyone is turning on everyone in Beal, Michigan at this point.
00:24:53
>> The parents are turning on each other. The kids are turning on each other. Like
00:24:56
>> all the girls on the basketball team are fighting. parents were trying to get in
00:25:00
to talk to the kids, but the principal and the superintendent are like, "We can't have an angry mom of mob of
00:25:05
parents like hunting the kids down, you know." >> Yeah. And Chloe's, you know, like these
00:25:11
kids are getting interrogated by police at school all year. >> Actual police officers. And the other
00:25:18
thing was another reason why they were looking at Chloe is because the texter or texters were saying that they had
00:25:25
connections to the cops and that's why they were never going to get caught. And Khloe's dad, as um Sophie put it, was a
00:25:33
police. >> She was a police officer. >> He was a police officer. >> Excuse me. So things started looking
00:25:38
even more like Chloe when her family took a trip to Florida and the area code of the texts that were coming in started
00:25:46
coming from a Florida area code. Now, on top of that, too, in the um cut article, Lauren, the author of the
00:25:53
article, had written that >> uh Snapchat account had even been made in Khloe's name, and Chloe was like,
00:25:59
"That's not my account, and I'm not sending those messages." >> And like showed that
00:26:03
>> and she showed her dad, and also was like, "This is how easy it is to make an
00:26:07
account and say it's me." >> So, her parents believed her the whole time, >> of course. But at that point, it also
00:26:13
seemed like they didn't really have any other option to prove that it wasn't their daughter than to have her phone
00:26:17
dubbed with the police, >> which that is such an in like obviously it took a long like road to get there.
00:26:25
But I do feel for them for actually doing that like in that way. >> Kudos to them because that's such an
00:26:32
invasion of privacy. That is everything on your phone, every picture, every text, every file. I don't know if it
00:26:38
even goes into like every website you've ever been to probably. Like it's everything you've ever done on your
00:26:43
phone. >> Yeah. And it's like that's a lot. And especially if you I mean one of the main
00:26:48
things you should be teaching your kid is that their privacy they have a right to privacy and that that privacy should
00:26:53
be respected. >> Yeah. >> And that respect breeds because of privacy being respected. And it's like
00:27:00
>> and now you're kind of being like >> I'm sorry we don't have any other >> strangers invade your privacy. Like that
00:27:05
sucks. >> It does. Well, they dubbed Khloe's phone and it proved that she wasn't doing
00:27:11
anything. >> So, she had been literally >> she'd been framed, >> like framed for this. And then somehow
00:27:17
whoever was sending the text messages didn't realize that Khloe's phone had been dubbed and it proved that she
00:27:23
wasn't doing anything because they kept trying to make it seem like they were Chloe. Even after the phone was dubbed,
00:27:30
>> they would send they would send all kinds of messages basically like they would send pictures of Owen and Chloe to
00:27:36
mock Lauren and say like, oh, he's hanging out with us, not you. >> That kind of thing.
00:27:41
>> And can you imagine how Chloe felt? >> Yeah. She's like, I'm not doing this. >> One, being like railroaded for an entire
00:27:47
year of her high school career and like treated like a villain. And then two, >> she's sitting there going, who the [ __ ]
00:27:53
is this person that's trying to frame me? >> Yeah. Like that would be terrifying. I'd
00:27:58
be like, why are they doing this to me now? >> It's like a pretty little liars. >> Yeah. It's like really scary. That would
00:28:04
freak me out. >> Absolutely. >> So then around Christmas time, uh, everybody ended up getting a text about
00:28:11
Owen's phone case and the picture his family realized had t had been taken at a Christmas family party where they only
00:28:20
had family in their house and nobody else. >> Yeah. So that's when they were like,
00:28:24
"Okay, this has to be somebody in our family >> that was in our house that day."
00:28:28
>> That was in our house that day. So they started looking at Owen's cousin, Adriana, who also went to school with
00:28:34
everybody else. >> Adriana broke my heart. >> Adriana seemed like the sweetest bean.
00:28:40
She >> I felt so awful. >> She got she like she was the next person basically to get railroaded. Yeah,
00:28:46
everyone thought that it could have been her and especially thought that it was maybe her because she and Khloe didn't
00:28:52
really get along. She had felt before in the past like Khloe had kind of bullied
00:28:56
her. Chloe said she didn't bully her. It was like this whole back and forth thing. High school's awful for everybody
00:29:01
involved. >> High school sucks ass. >> Yeah, I would never do that. >> Middle school and high school suck ass.
00:29:05
>> It's awful. So, they pull her in and she's trying to prove to them that she didn't do anything. She ends up getting
00:29:12
checked out, but then once her story checks out, she got a text from one of the random numbers asking her for help
00:29:20
to like terrorize Lauren again and protect Owen, like get get Lauren away from Owen, even though they were already
00:29:26
broken up. Like, what the [ __ ] And Adriana starts freaking out because she's been cleared at this point, but
00:29:32
now she's got a text from the number. So, she started like balling her eyes out,
00:29:36
>> and this poor girl has like PTSD now. Yeah. >> She said she'll pass a cop and she like
00:29:41
doesn't trust them anymore >> because she felt like she couldn't prove to them that she wasn't doing this,
00:29:46
>> which is so like the farreaching effects that this had on so many kids and so
00:29:52
many families, especially because of how small and tight-knit of a community this is. Like
00:29:58
it would be it would do this kind of damage even in like a bigger community. Oh,
00:30:04
>> it's it was just so much it was so much easier because it was such a tight-knit
00:30:08
community. >> And now it also is starting to infiltrate people's family dynamics.
00:30:13
Apparently >> Kendra, Lauren's mom, and uh Lauren's father Shawn were fighting all the time.
00:30:19
Sean said the tension in the house was awful. Like she it was like Kendra saying like she was handling it and Sean
00:30:25
was saying like >> obviously you're not cuz it's still going on. Lauren sobbing every morning
00:30:29
not wanting to go to school because like the co the texter would uh berate her about like outfits she was wearing. She
00:30:37
could never wear the right thing. Like just awful. I can't imagine how she lived through it all.
00:30:41
>> That's awful. That was my bully's thing in middle school. Um if you're listening, hey, what's up? You remember?
00:30:48
It was always what I It was my clothing a lot of the time and my hair and they would like leave hand because it was
00:30:54
like back in, you know, the pioneer days. So they would leave they would leave like handwritten notes in the
00:31:01
bathroom and then they would find them for me or direct me to them and like they were helping me
00:31:07
>> and it would be this like awful letter that was like talking about how shitty I
00:31:10
dress and my hair is gross and all that. >> So it's like that that's tail is oldest
00:31:16
time. >> Oh yeah. especially with unfortunately girl on girl bullying >> is to do that kind of [ __ ] because it's
00:31:22
the stuff that's gonna get you the most because every day you're gonna wake up you're gonna put you're gonna rip
00:31:27
through your closet >> and do your absolutely >> you're going to put on a hundred
00:31:29
different outfits and each time you're going to say what are they going to say about this one?
00:31:33
>> How are they going to make me feel like [ __ ] today about this one? >> Yep. >> It's crazy.
00:31:38
>> It is. It's so sad. I don't like I just don't understand doing that to somebody
00:31:42
else. >> I don't understand. It's like I I Yeah, I don't get it. >> It's [ __ ] up. So, a year and a half
00:31:50
has gone by at this point of them just whoever this caller or textter is just terrorizing everyone in this town, but
00:31:57
specifically Lauren and Owen. And at So, Lauren's getting all these text messages
00:32:02
telling her to kill herself, telling her like all the things we've been talking about, just bullying her beyond belief.
00:32:07
>> This all crazy sexually explicit [ __ ] too. >> And well, that's the thing I was just
00:32:12
going to say. Exactly. And Owen is experiencing these text messages detailing graphic sex acts. So graphic
00:32:20
that like the superintendent of the school literally says he was like, "I'm a grown ass man." And like that kind of
00:32:25
[ __ ] was making me uncom like if like another adult said that to me. Like it's
00:32:30
it is [ __ ] crazy. >> It's beyond when Drew and I Drew and I watched this together the first time I
00:32:37
saw it and I we literally had to pause halfway through because it was so shocking.
00:32:42
>> So uncomfortable. I was like, I like need a second. Hold on. >> And it's like I don't think enough
00:32:46
>> emphasis >> emphasis and we'll talk about more of that later. But I don't think enough
00:32:52
emphasis either in the documentary was put on how to it was obviously traumatizing for Lauren what was being
00:32:58
said to her. But what was being said to Owen like they weren't saying like you know you suck and everyone hates you
00:33:05
Owen. They were literally assault sexually assaulting him via words. Like they were literally sexual harassment.
00:33:12
>> Like he was being sexually harassed as a child and it's like >> and the [ __ ] that was being said to him
00:33:18
will [ __ ] you up for a long time. Like he that's going to like stay with him. >> Oh, absolutely.
00:33:24
>> And it's like I don't think enough was put on that like how uncomfortable he probably felt and how like he probably
00:33:30
had some kind of like weird like cuz that [ __ ] will make you feel like shame for no reason.
00:33:34
>> Absolutely it will. >> Like I feel for him like that as well. Well, going into how we [ __ ] feel for
00:33:40
this poor kid. >> So, a year and a half into this, uh, the sheriff got the FBI involved because the
00:33:44
sheriff went as far as he could, he said. >> And the FBI needed to get involved to
00:33:48
kind of do like the IP tracking and all that, but obviously you don't just like beep and boop onto a computer and figure
00:33:53
that out in one day. It takes time. >> No. So, while they were working on their investigation, Owen started dating this
00:33:59
girl from another town and her mom started getting messages trying to break Owen and this girl up.
00:34:07
>> So, whoever >> from another town's mom. >> Yeah. And she was getting like multiple
00:34:12
text messages, I think, uh something happened like where they knew what she was posting on Facebook, like that kind
00:34:18
of thing. >> And Owen is sitting here being like, I just can't date anybody. Oh, he ended up
00:34:24
breaking up. Like they ended up just like going their separate separate ways because he didn't want this girl to
00:34:29
experience what Lauren had gone through. >> And like this girl was freaking out like
00:34:32
scared being like what the hell's going on right now? And Owen was trying to be like I don't know who it is.
00:34:37
>> I don't know who it is and I don't want this to happen to you. And also probably
00:34:40
sitting there and being like okay am I ever going to be able to have a relationship with anyone
00:34:44
>> or they just going to follow me forever? Or like that's the thing like >> I can't imagine how
00:34:50
>> claustrophobic and like controlled you would feel. >> Yeah. And totally helpless.
00:34:55
>> Well, and that's the thing. So, he started I'm sure feeling out of control. And his mom Jill said like during sports
00:35:01
games like basketball especially, she saw him starting to get like extra aggressive
00:35:05
>> like he was letting it out on the field. >> Exactly. Because it was somewhere where
00:35:08
he could be a little more aggressive without actually hurting somebody. >> But she was probably worried about that.
00:35:13
>> But she was. And I at one point in the um cut article >> Oh, it destroy this part destroyed me.
00:35:20
The bullying thing. >> Yeah, I' I haven't talked about the bullying a lot lately, but like I used
00:35:24
to talk about it all the time and it apparently pissed some people off. I know why,
00:35:28
>> but but uh but when I experienced it in middle school, I was insufferable at home. I got in fights with my parents
00:35:38
all the time just because I was so upset and so frustrated and so like just sad all the time and also angry that I would
00:35:46
end up like exploding on them just because I was under so much stress and pressure.
00:35:52
>> And that's exactly what happened. reading that I was like, "Whoa." Cuz I was like, "I I can feel that feeling
00:35:58
he's feeling that apparently Owen got really upset one night according to the article and had said like yelled at
00:36:06
Jill, his mother, saying like you're my mother. It's your job to like you should
00:36:11
be able to stop this bullying." >> I can't. >> And she said she just sobbed. >> I can't imagine how she must have felt
00:36:16
because I'm sure all and he know he knew in his heart of hearts all she wanted to
00:36:20
do is stop that. But you're he didn't say that to hurt her. He said it because he was exploding on the
00:36:26
>> That's the thing. It's a pressure cooker and at some point you do explode. And
00:36:29
that must have been [ __ ] awful for him and for her. Like I >> I can't imagine how I It's like I know
00:36:38
how he felt in that moment. And now as a mother, I can't [ __ ] fathom how she felt in that moment because if one of my
00:36:45
kids looked at me and said, "This is your job. You should be able to make this stop. You're my mother."
00:36:52
It would be just take out a katana and stab me through the chest. Like that would literally annihilate me. Well,
00:37:01
>> that would annihilate me. >> This is my opinion, but I do think Jill was ultimately really the one who got
00:37:07
this to stop because she basically told the sheriff like, I'm done here and if you don't if you don't do more, I'm
00:37:13
going to the papers. >> Yeah. And I was like, good for you. >> So, she did the work to get something
00:37:17
done. Like, I give Jill Jill is a mama bear. She You can tell that she was just doing whatever she could.
00:37:23
>> Mhm. So, the FBI uh the FBI agent, Bradley Peter, started doing his thing. He's beeping and booping. It's taken a
00:37:30
while. But he finally finds out that these texts are coming, like we said before, from this app called Pinger,
00:37:36
which you could use to disguise a phone number. And as we said, you should just No app like that should exist.
00:37:40
>> No. >> But what is great is that the FBI can send a warrant to a place like that.
00:37:46
>> Yeah. >> To get IP addresses. So, he got all these warrants served at like Verizon,
00:37:52
Panganger, all these different places to really, you know, put the puzzle pieces
00:37:55
together. >> Mhm. >> And we're about to tell you who it was >> finally. So, we can really just start
00:38:02
ripping. >> I need you all ready. We're going to take a collective deep breath together.
00:38:05
If you don't know who this is, you're about to get your [ __ ] rocked. Ready? In
00:38:09
through the nose, >> out through the mouth. For a year and a half, these text messages were coming from Lauren's
00:38:21
mother. Kendra, >> I need you to really take that in. Starting with the first text that said
00:38:30
>> DTF >> two 12-year-olds >> to a 12-year-old that Owen was DTF. Now, according to Miss Kendra, th those
00:38:39
original texts did not come from her. And we'll get there, >> which that's my opinion. I don't believe
00:38:45
it. >> Yeah. Personally, I don't believe that. >> No. >> And I don't think a lot of people
00:38:50
believe that. >> So, we'll get there in a minute. So, >> they find out that it's Lauren's mom and
00:38:55
literally everybody is like, "No, that's not possible." >> I should say mostly everybody.
00:39:01
>> A mother could not do that to their child. No, that and that was everybody's thought. A mom could never do that to
00:39:06
their child. >> And I I still think that >> I also think >> a mother could not do that to her mama.
00:39:11
Yeah. >> So the sheriff goes to confront her and she denies it for about 3.2 seconds.
00:39:17
>> It's on body cam footage, by the way, in the documentary. >> It's the wildest [ __ ] you'll ever see.
00:39:23
>> And you are going to be [ __ ] seething. >> She barely denies it. They basically say
00:39:29
like, "Yeah, so it's coming from your phone, Kendra." And she's like, "No, that can't be."
00:39:34
>> She literally goes, "No, >> no, >> no." >> Not like, and like you were saying, if
00:39:40
you were ever accused of this and you were not guilty, you'd be like, "Oh my god, no. Like, look through my phone
00:39:45
right now. It's not me. I would never do that. What the fuck?" Like, you would be
00:39:50
losing your mind and being like, >> "Wait, how is that possible?" Like, I'm not like, you'd be like, "Holy shit."
00:39:55
Like, I'll do whatever it is to prove that I didn't do this. I can't believe that you're telling me this right now.
00:39:59
She's like, "No." >> And then he says, "What was it, Kendra?" Like some kind of infatuation with Owen.
00:40:07
And she goes, "No, nothing like that." >> And the way she says it is like, "No, nothing like that." Like just
00:40:13
>> just so somebody's asking you if you have an as like a I don't know how old she is, but I'm assuming like
00:40:20
>> a grown ass woman. Yeah, I was going to say I won't even I won't even assume her
00:40:23
age here, but above above the age of 18, if somebody's asking you if you have an
00:40:27
infatuation with a boy who was 12 to 14 years old when you sent these text messages, or 12 to 13 and a half,
00:40:34
whatever, you would emphatically scream from the rooftop that you don't have any
00:40:40
kind of infatuation with this child. But Kendra couldn't because you look at those [ __ ] text messages where
00:40:47
she's talking about his private life and >> and private body parts. >> Private body parts,
00:40:55
>> everybody and her uh body parts. She can't deny that. >> No, >> you can't deny that there's not some
00:41:01
kind of infatuation. >> Things we mentioned, she wrote >> Yeah. >> to a 12year-old boy.
00:41:09
>> Yep. like a boy, a baby, a child. >> Mhm. >> Barely past singledigit age. Like, like
00:41:19
what the [ __ ] is wrong with you, lady? I don't know. >> Like, I don't know how anyone in there,
00:41:28
like she there's no way she lives there anymore because I feel like she would literally be like hunted and pitchforked
00:41:34
out of there. >> Yeah. like she can't like >> you know like Beauty and the Beast when
00:41:37
they're going to like take down the beast and they all have like the the like flamethrowers and like [ __ ] not
00:41:43
flamethrowers but like flaming torches pulled up bazookas and beauty the beast >> listen I probably
00:41:48
>> crazy >> I >> in this case >> honey like I don't there wouldn't be a safe corner on the earth
00:41:56
>> I here I like Jill Owen's mom >> I bow down I was Owen's Mom, I'm not kidding you. Not a safe place on
00:42:09
Earth. >> You'd have to move to Jupiter to get away from me. >> Yeah. >> Like, you just would.
00:42:15
>> Yeah. And even then, I'd probably figure out a way to Jupiter. >> Pick one of the moons or something.
00:42:20
>> I'd probably go there, too. >> And I'll take the time to search all of them. Y
00:42:22
>> like that's I'm >> I'll go to another universe. >> The [ __ ] she said to her child,
00:42:28
her young child, is unforgivable. It is [ __ ] disgusting. >> Yeah. And it's >> And in my opinion, Kendra is a sack of
00:42:40
[ __ ] >> Yeah. >> And there is something deeply disturbed there. >> Deeply >> and deeply dangerous.
00:42:49
>> Absolutely. Very >> because the [ __ ] she said to a child should not be taken lightly.
00:42:54
>> She should be on a list in my opinion. >> And that is that's the part of this and
00:42:58
I mentioned it a little bit before. That's the part of the documentary that I don't think I think they could have
00:43:03
done a two-part documentary. Totally. One on how she affected Lauren and two how she affected Owen and how [ __ ] up
00:43:10
it is that because like we'll get even more into the Lauren stuff, but the Owen stuff is a is a different kind of [ __ ]
00:43:17
up. >> It really is. >> And it's something that really should have been taken more seriously in that
00:43:22
documentary and touched upon more. >> Yeah. So, the crazy thing about this too to me is that she basically spent less
00:43:29
time in prison. I think then she got 19 months in prison. The text went on longer than that.
00:43:34
>> Yeah. >> The text went on at least 20 months. >> Yeah. >> And during that time she couldn't speak
00:43:40
she couldn't speak to any of the victims involved which meant that she couldn't speak to her daughter.
00:43:44
>> Mhm. >> And the sad thing in my opinion is that like that was hard for Lauren.
00:43:51
>> Yeah. Because in that in that police like footage cam, like in that police body footage, you can tell, at least I
00:43:58
think that Lauren's in shock. >> Oh, I think she's purely that is straight up shock. I think she
00:44:05
disassociated out of this planet. >> That's the thing. She looked to me at least like she was fully disassociating.
00:44:11
Even like Kendra is literally like grabbing her, trying to comfort her, >> grabbing her hand,
00:44:18
>> like like basically like hugging her while she's sitting down, like stroking her head. I'd be like, "Don't [ __ ]
00:44:24
touch me, but also you're the person that I've gone to for comfort my whole life." Like, and you're the person I've
00:44:29
gone to for comfort throughout this whole ordeal. >> That's the thing. So, it's like, and now
00:44:34
another development has come that I would come to you for comfort for, but it's you.
00:44:39
>> Yeah. Like, how do you reconcile that? She's still a young girl and like that's
00:44:44
come on. Like that is crazy. It turned out, by the way, too, that Kendra was lying to everybody it seems because
00:44:52
>> so they call they were worried obviously about like the when the sheriff was there, he was like, I can't just like
00:44:57
leave you two now that I've outed your mom as the person who's been ruining your life and telling you to kill
00:45:02
yourself for the past however many. >> Can I say one thing, too? >> Yeah. >> That rubbed me the wrong way about that
00:45:08
whole thing. Yeah, >> they never should have told Lauren in front of her mother.
00:45:11
>> I feel that way too >> because she was not allowed to have a genuine reaction.
00:45:15
>> I feel that way too. She should have been taken into a separate room or something like that.
00:45:19
>> But I don't know what the logistics are there like if they if they needed Kendra's permission to do that
00:45:25
>> cuz she's a minor. >> Cuz she's a minor. Exactly. >> But it's like I don't know. There was It
00:45:29
didn't seem to me like there was a lot of thought put into delivering the message. like maybe perhaps I'm missing
00:45:33
a part of the puzzle and I won't claim that I know everything here that like maybe they did ask Kendra like we would
00:45:39
like to tell her talk to her alone and Kendra said no. >> Yeah. >> And again, she's a minor so I don't know
00:45:44
how that works. I I feel like if the mom says no, the parent says no, then >> that's just the way it goes. I mean, the
00:45:51
only other thing I could think that you could do was to say, "You need to call your husband and tell him that he needs
00:46:00
to get home and ask him and be like, "Okay, this is what happened. Tell him the whole thing outside." And then be
00:46:05
like, "And we would like to tell your daughter or you and I can tell your daughter
00:46:09
>> alone without her present." >> I just felt like having Kendra in the room did not allow Lauren to actually
00:46:15
have >> any reaction. >> No. like because and she probably didn't I I mean I don't know how she felt
00:46:22
because obviously it's very clear in the documentary that she still loves her mother and like she
00:46:26
>> she's a strong [ __ ] girl one for getting through all of this and two being able to move on from this and like
00:46:32
maintain a relationship or like some kind of relationship with her mom >> and just like maintain like her humanity
00:46:38
and kindness because that is something Owen said was what drew him to Lauren was she was supremely kind.
00:46:45
>> Yeah. So that is like one of her hallmarks. [Music] But it's like she should have I I just
00:47:04
feel like maybe in that moment she probably didn't want to be comforted by her mom and like she should have had
00:47:09
that option is what kind of thing. She didn't need to be like instantly grabbed at and touched. Her mom was like
00:47:16
grabbing her hand and like Lawrence just kind of like limply allowing her to. And
00:47:20
it's like >> it's just [ __ ] up. It was a [ __ ] up situation. And I was like I wanted
00:47:26
somebody to like remove Kendra from the room cuz I was like she needs to be able
00:47:29
to like process this for a second. >> No, that's the thing. I don't think she got any time to process it. And any time
00:47:35
to process that for over a year her mom was sending her boyfriend and her explicit sexual messages literally
00:47:43
saying like he doesn't like you need like basically I think let me find one that I that I wrote down. It was like
00:47:51
>> there were times when she was like you won't sleep with him. That's the one I
00:47:54
was trying to define. >> I'll sleep with him. Like, you're not sleeping with him. You're not giving him
00:47:58
[ __ ] That's why he's breaking out with you. And I was like, >> this is a quote.
00:48:01
>> You're talking to your child. >> This is a quote. Maybe you shouldn't have picked cross country over him. You
00:48:06
proved he isn't important to you. We were there though. You don't get with him in bed. You don't sneak out with
00:48:11
him. You [ __ ] dress awful. Ain't no guy want that. >> That's her mother talking to her. A
00:48:18
child. >> Yep. Like that's beyond >> I I can't comprehend it. I can't. Nothing about my brain can compute this
00:48:28
in any way, shape, or form. >> And her excuses to me, I don't I'm not saying [ __ ] didn't happen to her. I'm
00:48:36
not saying that Kendra doesn't have trauma, but to be quite honest, I don't give a [ __ ] about what happened to her
00:48:40
because she uses it as an excuse to literally inflict trauma upon two children, including her own.
00:48:47
>> More than two children. >> Exactly. more than two children. And it's like, I'm sorry, a whole community
00:48:51
of trauma doesn't give you a [ __ ] free pass to be a goddamn tornado in everybody's life. It just doesn't.
00:48:59
>> So many people >> go to [ __ ] therapy, >> right? So many people unfortunately do
00:49:03
experience trauma. That's unfortunately just the way that our world That's the thing. That's just the way our world
00:49:09
works. It's awful. But >> I feel like, and this is my opinion, but like nine out of 10 people you talk to
00:49:15
have experienced some kind of pretty awful [ __ ] trauma. Not everybody texts their daughter from an anonymous
00:49:21
number telling her to go kill herself and like texts her boyfriend about explicit things about his body.
00:49:28
>> Exactly. >> Because they had trauma. I'm sorry. That doesn't give you a [ __ ] pass. And it
00:49:33
doesn't make me feel bad. I feel bad for what happened to you when you were younger. 100%. I don't feel bad for you
00:49:39
now that you did this. >> No. >> Like, no. >> No. >> No. No. Period. >> No. So, also she literally compares this
00:49:48
to driving drunk. She like she is so [ __ ] callous. At one point in the documentary, she's like, "Everybody has
00:49:55
broken the law at some point. People probably have driven drunk before and not got caught. The only difference is
00:50:01
that I got caught." Uh, babe, no. No. to compare sending sexually explicit texts to a 12-year-old boy as a grown
00:50:13
adult to someone having a DUI beyond. >> My brain said no. That's comparing that's comparing a zebra to a
00:50:25
clementine. >> Literally, >> that's how that's how insanely they don't exist. That's how the difference
00:50:32
is between them. Like >> you can't you can't compare those two things. And she's just like, "Whatever."
00:50:37
She's like, "Everyone's broken the law." And it's like, first of all, no. And second of all,
00:50:42
>> I've never broken the law like that, babe. >> Babe, I'm no >> nope. And it's also like, we're not just
00:50:50
talking about breaking the law. Yeah, that's a massive part of this. You [ __ ] told your daughter to kill
00:50:58
herself. #bang bang. Do it now. >> Do it now, [ __ ] Kill yourself now, [ __ ] And she also says,
00:51:08
>> cuz they were like, "What the [ __ ] is wrong with you?" >> They're like, "Why did you say that?"
00:51:11
And they said, and they said, "Did you think she like were you ever worried that she was going to kill herself?"
00:51:16
>> And she had to think about it for a second. She was like, >> "No, >> no." >> Oh, okay. And also, she it's like the
00:51:23
anorexic stuff. She literally admits that that was an insecurity. She said Lauren knows she's tall because she
00:51:29
knows she's has a small frame and sometimes it can be an insecurity for her. >> And here's the thing.
00:51:34
>> So her mother prayed on that. >> Here's the thing, too. First, she says that and then and I It's so funny. You
00:51:40
had the exact same reaction that I did when I watched it the first time. And then when I watched it with you, you
00:51:44
said it. They gave her such an out for that because they were like, "Were you talking to yourself when you were
00:51:50
sending those messages?" >> No. >> Yeah. That interviewer, I was literally like, "Shut the [ __ ] up."
00:51:54
>> I was like, "Don't give her a pass like don't make her a victim. >> And she was like, "Maybe I was. Maybe I
00:52:00
I fell into that anorexic category, too, cuz I was so small." >> And it's like, first of all, can we stop
00:52:05
throwing around the dosage of anorexic? >> It's not just like anorexic isn't just
00:52:11
like you're small. >> Yeah. It's like thin does not mean anorexic. >> Way beyond that.
00:52:15
>> So, you know, there's that. And it's like too also like there was that whole thing where they um you know Kendra as
00:52:22
this like phantom >> uh like parent of >> of her daughter would say like call her
00:52:29
like a JV hoe. Yeah. >> And like you're not good enough for varsity because she didn't make it on
00:52:34
the varsity team. >> As someone who play and it sounds like you know as someone who played sports
00:52:40
>> and like sports meant a lot to you. >> It did. It meant a lot to Lauren. And I
00:52:44
remember sophomore year I didn't make it on varsity for softball and I was [ __ ] devastated. It was a huge moment
00:52:50
in my life. It shattered my confidence. Yeah. I was so upset and it's like my mother heard all of that. She she was
00:53:00
there when I was crying about it and saying I'm not good at this and I should just quit and why am I even doing it?
00:53:05
Her mother also heard that I'm sure because Lauren sports was everything to her. M. So for her to use even that that
00:53:14
little like JV ho, you're not good enough for varsity. She probably comforted her through not getting on
00:53:21
varsity and then to pull that out and use it on her. I'm sorry. Kendra's [ __ ] diabolical diabolical.
00:53:31
>> Diabolical behavior. >> Not only that, like there were text messages that said things like that.
00:53:36
There were also pictures of Lauren and Owen together with Lauren's face crossed out and then words all over the picture
00:53:44
saying JV ho [ __ ] Uh not like worthless like like >> nobody will miss you. >> Nobody will miss you. All these [ __ ]
00:53:53
awful things. Writing writing JV Ho alone would have been awful. >> Like and again remember this is her
00:54:01
mother. >> Her mother. I need I can't stress this enough. Her mother brought up a picture of her own baby
00:54:10
girl. >> Her only >> her only baby girl and wrote that [ __ ] over her [ __ ] face.
00:54:20
>> I can't reconcile that in my mind. And for her to sit there and be like, you know, if I could go back and change it
00:54:27
out. No, you wouldn't. >> No. >> No, you wouldn't. Because you did it for two years. Again, I can't stress enough
00:54:32
that same woman who brought up the picture of her baby's face, crossed it out, wrote all those things, told her to
00:54:38
kill herself, was texting her boyfriend, explicit acts, then had the [ __ ] gall
00:54:43
in that documentary to sit sit there and talk about hearing Lauren's heartbeat for the first time. Oh my god. And how
00:54:49
she realized in that moment that like you think you can love this this baby so much and then you realize that like you
00:54:56
have more love than you ever you don't love there. That's not love. You don't treat someone you love that and that is
00:55:02
your baby. You're supposed to keep them safe and you're praying on her insecurities and fost you're nurturing
00:55:09
them >> creating them. >> She nurtured those insecurities that she had and made them bigger.
00:55:14
>> Mhm. Because no matter what, after this, not only did she did Lauren think for a
00:55:21
a period of time that her peers were feeding on those insecurities, >> she realized
00:55:26
>> now she's sitting there going, "Holy [ __ ] my own mother said that [ __ ] to
00:55:30
me. That won't go away anytime soon." >> That is a >> the damage is lasting there.
00:55:35
>> That is a mind [ __ ] >> Yeah, mind [ __ ] of a century. And for Kendra to sit there and act like she is
00:55:43
any sort of victim, >> I was [ __ ] living. I am I'm still seething just thinking about her [ __ ]
00:55:52
face sitting there trying to act like it's like she's the victim. >> Yep. >> She also said, and this makes no sense.
00:56:00
So remember I said I think somewhere in this that she claims that she didn't send those original text messages like
00:56:07
when they started around that Halloween party. She said that she didn't send those and that the reason why she
00:56:13
eventually started sending the text messages was to get to the bottom of who sent the original ones.
00:56:21
>> Uh, one, no sense. >> That makes no sense. Two, what did talking about explicit sex acts have to
00:56:28
do with getting to the bottom of it? And three, what would um telling your daughter to kill herself, how is that
00:56:33
going to help you uncover the real villain here? And then at one point she said, "I think
00:56:38
it was my escape." >> Telling her daughter to kill herself was your escape. >> Prison.
00:56:47
>> I don't think that was touched upon enough in that documentary, that part of it.
00:56:51
>> No. So, here's the thing. It basically ends by saying that like uh Lauren I think Lauren basically didn't get to
00:56:58
talk to her mom during the trial, but then she and she couldn't see her while she was in prison, but they exchanged
00:57:04
emails. The emails are over the top on Kendra side of things in my opinion. She's way too much.
00:57:09
>> Yeah. >> A lot of people like including professionals, nobody can like diagnose
00:57:13
her without her being their client, whatever. But a lot of people believe that this is a case of munch like
00:57:18
digital munchousins, >> which it appears to at least resemble that. >> I think it's very
00:57:24
>> I think there's even deeper [ __ ] though to be quite honest. I don't even think
00:57:28
it ends there. >> So, here's the thing. So, that's basically like how the documentary ends.
00:57:33
And like Lauren says like she hopes they can repair their relationship and she hopes her mom gets the help she needs.
00:57:37
>> And remember, I don't know if we totally touched upon it before, but like that
00:57:40
she was lying about having a job for a year. >> Oh my god, we forgot to touch on that.
00:57:45
>> Yeah. When the dad shows up when they actually I I feel her dad's name is Sean. I feel horrible for this man as
00:57:52
well. Um, he thought she had a job for the entire time she was doing this and it turned out she didn't. She got fired
00:58:00
for, you know, texting at work. >> Yeah. >> And, uh, allegedly, according to the
00:58:05
article, >> they literally put her on a plan, performance plan, >> performance plan because she was
00:58:10
spending too much time on outside things. according to the article. >> According to the article and then like
00:58:15
she decided to leave, >> she quit and never told him and just they lost houses. Like she was claiming
00:58:22
to be working and also like so he he was lied to for the full two years about all
00:58:27
of this including the fact that she was bringing money and like wasn't cuz she also had control of the finances.
00:58:33
>> Yeah. >> And when they when he gets there he's like well he's like did you did you get
00:58:38
her phones? Like did you look at her phones? And the and the her sheriff is like, "Phoes?"
00:58:42
>> She gave us one. >> Because when they said, "Do you have anything else?" She said, "I have a
00:58:45
laptop." And he was like, "Oh, no. She's got a couple of phones." >> Yeah. >> And then when they go in there and ask
00:58:51
her for them, she acts, first of all, she's shocked that they know about that second phone. Which I was like, "You're
00:58:56
a [ __ ] diabolical." >> And she tries to say like, "No, there's no >> Yeah, no, I don't know." And then she
00:59:01
he's like, one of the other sheriff is literally like, "It's fine. I'll just tear this [ __ ] house apart." Like,
00:59:06
and you can tell he's like, "Give me a reason." Yeah. >> Like, let's go. >> If I knew everything I knew going into
00:59:13
that, I wouldn't have even given her the opportunity. I just ripped the house apart looking.
00:59:17
>> He's like, "I'll rip the house apart." And she's like, "It's outside." >> Now that when she was outside
00:59:23
>> and Lauren's out like swimming. So, I'm like, "Was your daughter sending to her
00:59:26
out there?" >> Was your daughter like enjoying her lake day swimming and you're sitting there
00:59:31
texting her horrible things? >> Yeah. So, she wasn't working all day and would just text Owen and Kendra or
00:59:40
Lauren all day >> and all night >> and they were in the article it actually says that somebody in town saw her
00:59:50
parked in like a church parking lot one day in the middle of the day like with her head down
00:59:55
>> and like when she looked up and was like oh like waved. >> It was Owen's father. I was going to say
00:59:59
cuz it was Jill later who like said that Kendra brought it up later out of nowhere and was like, "Oh, he saw me. It
01:00:05
must have been like funny. I spilled coffee on my lap and I was trying to like wipe it off and she was like, "Why
01:00:11
did she bring that up?" And it was like to cover her ass cuz she knew she got caught.
01:00:16
>> And it's like, >> so this lady for almost two years was lying to her entire family,
01:00:22
>> putting her entire family at risk financially, emotionally, everything. and was spending her entire day
01:00:31
ruthlessly texting nasty ass [ __ ] and death threats to her child and her child's then
01:00:39
ex-boyfriend. >> Yep. >> And sexually sitting god knows where in the middle of the day texting
01:00:48
sexually explicit [ __ ] to a 12 and 13 and 14year-old boy. Like what the [ __ ]
01:00:55
also potentially creating these other like it does the documentary never touched on that in the article like very
01:01:02
briefly touches on it but I don't know how it all worked but could have created those accounts that were like fakes of
01:01:10
Chloe sending messages. >> Yeah. >> Like what the [ __ ] Are you kidding me? Like what is that? And it sounds like
01:01:17
according to the article that like there was always like a very big focus on Owen.
01:01:22
>> Yeah. in that family like that in that like from Kendra. >> Yeah. So, this is a direct quote from uh
01:01:29
from the article and they this was the article was written before the documentary came out. So, they refer to
01:01:34
Lauren as Ashley because they she was still a minor at the time. >> So, it's a this is direct from the
01:01:39
article. After Ashley started dating Owen, her mother came along too. At every opportunity, Kendra would ask them
01:01:44
to wrap their arms around each other for a photo which of Ashley would turn into
01:01:48
presents for Owen, like a personalized phone case. When they hung out at the Lucaris, Kendra would chime in. Why
01:01:54
don't you jump on the trampoline? Take a spin in Ashley's Ranger utility vehicle. Kendra talked about the kids.
01:02:00
Jill says quote like they were going to be together forever. Once a friend Paige
01:02:04
saw Kendra take Ashley's phone, read her her daughter's text with Owen. Then as Ashley Kendra typed out a reply, I love
01:02:13
you. And Jill says it. And again, it's not touch it's so briefly touched on in this article, but sorry, in this uh in
01:02:21
the documentary, the article, >> which I imagine they needed to leave things vague to get Kendra to agree to
01:02:28
participate in this documentary because I'm still shocked they did. >> I It was one of those things where like
01:02:34
I was like, how did this not turn into like we reached out to Kendra for a comment and she has never replied to us
01:02:40
>> that Netflix when she when they when she was like, yeah, totally. You know, they
01:02:45
were like, "Cameras, cameras, cameras." Like, they were literally like, "Get in the car." Like, "Holy [ __ ] guys."
01:02:50
>> It's like in Bravo and they're like, "I need Andy and a camera now." >> Somebody like repels from the ceiling
01:02:54
with the with the waiver for her to sign and it's just like, "Sign here. Sign here." She's like, "Let's go."
01:02:58
>> Okay. >> But at the same time, who knows? Because in the documentary, her cousin says
01:03:04
>> she This is her cousin saying she loves attention. She said if you were if Kendra was here right now and you were
01:03:10
talking to me, she would be dancing over there trying to get your attention. attention on her.
01:03:14
>> So, it's like >> it's bonkers. >> It is. >> So, we we were kind of like touching
01:03:19
upon it before how maybe they like left some things out or like didn't go too hard into some things to get Kendra to
01:03:25
be a part of it. But one thing that they did include was Jill saying that she thought that it like maybe, you know,
01:03:33
there was the whole Lauren piece, but also that maybe Kendra had some kind of infatuation with Owen.
01:03:40
>> Yeah. And that was Jill thinking that. Yeah. And Owen also felt that way. >> Owen also felt that way. And it seems
01:03:45
like a lot of other people felt that way. And that's where the the cut article kind of like goes into that a
01:03:52
little bit more. Uh here's another quote. >> In 8th grade, Kendra signed up to coach
01:03:57
Owens track team, becoming, he says, like a second mom. A regular spectator at Owens matches. She drove Ashley 3
01:04:03
hours across Michigan to watch one of his championship games. Once Kendra even suggested turning Owen's tournament in
01:04:09
Florida into a Lucari family vacation to which Jill had to gently say no which like Jill was probably like okay and
01:04:18
like she even says it she's like I just thought like okay I guess she's just you
01:04:21
know we're good friends we're family friends I guess maybe she's just like >> being supportive
01:04:25
>> like her family's very sports focused so like maybe they're just kind of extending it off to Owen but like still
01:04:31
even she was like >> it's a little much >> no like you we're not doing that like
01:04:35
what the [ __ ] And it's like you also have to rememberth grade they're in seventh grade. This is also around the
01:04:41
time that these text messages start and it seems like also around the time where
01:04:44
her job is hanging on by a thread. >> Exactly. >> And it's like you're going to take time
01:04:48
off to go to Florida to watch a a 12-year-old compete in a championship. That's not your 12-year-old.
01:04:54
>> Oh, yeah. And also, uh Kendra is an IT professional. >> Yeah. >> So, that'll show you exactly how, you
01:05:01
know, she got that far. >> Mhm. It's you can't make this [ __ ] up. >> It's strange.
01:05:07
>> You can't make this [ __ ] up. >> It is strange. >> And obviously like Sean Kendra Kendra's
01:05:14
ex-husband now divorced her. >> Yeah. >> And I think he had complete he has complete custody of Lauren who I you
01:05:23
know they seem to be doing well together. >> They seem like they have a great relationship so that's awesome. Um, but
01:05:30
yeah, and then I guess one final note is that Lifetime kind of made like a their
01:05:37
own version loosely based on this story. Um, it's called Mommy Meanest and >> that's the most time [ __ ] I've ever
01:05:45
heard. >> Uh, I'm going to watch it immediately because Lisa Rena is the mom and it says
01:05:50
she is a Mchavelian brunette mother harassing her daughter. I was like, Lisa Rena, what? Ash literally was like, "I'm
01:05:58
in." >> I said, "I'm watching it. >> I'm in." >> I don't think this documentary, Mark my
01:06:04
words right here, right now, I don't think this documentary is the last we're going to hear about this case.
01:06:09
>> No, >> I think there I think it goes a little deeper. >> Yeah. >> And I think there's a lot more there.
01:06:16
>> I'm telling you, they could have done a part two just on the stuff she was saying to Owen and really focused on the
01:06:20
Lauren stuff in one and Owen in another because they are two different sides of the same coin. Yes.
01:06:26
>> And equally as horrifying on either side, just in totally different ways. >> Well, and what bothers me is like she
01:06:32
never she never >> got charged with any like sexual crime. Yeah. Like misconduct. Like this is like
01:06:41
Owens was able to say to her in her like hearing cuz they didn't get to go to like full trial. He said like I'm going
01:06:50
to be scarred by this for life. Like >> you might move on but I won't. >> Yeah. He literally said like, "You'll
01:06:55
move on, but I won't. Like, I'm going this is going to affect me for the rest of my life." And it will because Oh, and
01:07:00
sorry. >> Finding out that that lady was sending you that [ __ ] or talking about you like
01:07:05
that. And not only that, finding out that she was sending you that [ __ ] talking to you about like sending texts
01:07:10
to you about those kind of things, and then finding out that after you broke up, you and her daughter broke up,
01:07:17
>> she was stalking your new girlfriend another town away. Like this is a woman who like in my opinion this feels like
01:07:25
this woman was obsessed with this little boy and would not let him >> move forward.
01:07:30
>> Allegedly in my opinion >> allegedly in my opinion that's what it feels like though
01:07:34
>> 100%. >> And and that's what it could look like. It would feel like that to me if I was
01:07:38
Owen. I'd be like >> and if I was Owen's mom that would [ __ ] me up. >> Yeah. So uh that I think that's
01:07:44
everything we have to say about Unknown Number The High School Catfish. I will remember this documentary as long as I
01:07:51
breathe air on this earth. >> It blew my [ __ ] mind. >> I need to know if some of you guys like
01:07:58
went into this not knowing who it was. >> Oh, please tell. I'm actually like very
01:08:03
I'm envious of the people who didn't get it spoiled because I got it spoiled on TikTok before I watched it
01:08:08
>> and so I went in knowing even going in knowing I was still it's still wild. >> It still blew me over. But I wonder what
01:08:16
it must feel like to get that complete shock. >> There are so many I think I said it on
01:08:20
one of the last episodes we did. There are so many Tik Tok compilations of people finding out just being like,
01:08:24
"What? Oh my god." >> I saw one the other day that was like some lady and she turned and she just
01:08:29
goes, "I knew it. >> I saw that. I knew it. >> I saw like, oh shit." >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
01:08:36
>> It's unthinkable. >> But damn. >> One of the one of the the most compelling documentaries I've seen in a
01:08:42
while. I hope everyone else is thriving and doing well and healing in this story
01:08:48
except for Kendra. >> I don't give a [ __ ] about Kendra. >> Yeah. >> So, that was our first bonus episode. It
01:08:55
was fun to talk to you guys about a documentary. I don't think we talked about like a film since we did uh
01:09:01
shockingly vile, wickedly super nasty, gross, disgusting, >> super nasty >> with Zack Efron.
01:09:08
>> With Zack Efron. >> Yeah, you're right. >> Yeah, that was like many years ago. That
01:09:11
was many moons ago. >> So many moons. >> Yeah. >> So, we hope you keep listening. We hope
01:09:16
you enjoy the bonus episodes. >> And we hope you keep it weird, but not so weird that you don't tune in to our
01:09:23
uh bonus episodes, which are going to happen one Friday a month. Woohoo. Yay. Bye, girl.
01:09:30
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