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Hey weirdos. I'm Elena. >> I'm Ash. >> And this is Morbid. [Music] It's morbid in the afternoon.
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>> It's like the middle of the day. Smack dab. Um, and if you listen to the last
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episode, I mentioned that I have CO. So that's why I sound like this. In case you're like, "Why do you sound so
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annoying?" >> Why do you sound like Lindsay Lohan? I don't think it's annoying. >> I'm like a little stuffed up.
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>> I always prefer my sick voice. >> I I don't mind it, but I I always feel like it must sound annoying to other
00:00:42
people. >> Nah. >> Like I don't like to hear someone sick. >> I don't care >> because it makes me feel sick a little
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bit. So I feel that's why I'm apologizing ahead of time cuz >> that's your tism.
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>> Sorry if it makes you feel sick. >> You're funny. >> But yeah, I got CO from the uh the shows
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this weekend. Worth it. >> Worth it. >> So much fun. >> And to be honest, it's I'm okay. Like
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it's just been a kind of yucky cold. That's really it. >> Um but so that's a good thing cuz
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sometimes CO will kick my ass. >> I know. I was very When you first tested positive, I was like, "Oh, one I was
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like, "Oh, [ __ ] I probably have CO." And then I tested negative and I was like, "My immune system is a baddie."
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>> That's right. And Mikey, too. >> I know. It's so weird. >> Everybody's fine. My immune system is
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focused on other things in my body. It's like I got to pay attention to this. >> But
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>> yeah, I've managed to keep everyone in the house not like COVID free. So, I've
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been wearing my mask. I've been staying my distance. >> Yeah, she's staying the distance.
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>> True. >> I'm going for speed cuz I alone in her time of need cuz I made her pastina
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[ __ ] I think we talked about that last episode. >> It's true. And I ate so much of it last
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night. >> I'll make you more. >> Oh, it's so good. >> Pastina is the cure. But yeah, I
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apologize um if I sound annoying to you, but uh this is a we have a crazy case. I
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we'll talk about business if we if we have some, but uh usually we we only focus on like spooky episodes during
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October. >> You said that's so valley girl. >> Um we we really sit in the darkness
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during October, but >> uh we got a true crime case for you. Yeah, we're going to this October, I
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think, we're going to spooky, we're going to true crime, we're going to alien abduct, we're just going to try to
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hit everything for you guys. We we're in such a new place of like re revitalization
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that we just want to provide. >> We just want to do all the cool things for you guys.
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>> Yeah, we just we feel good. We want you to feel good. Everything is good. G E W
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D. [ __ ] >> I am not running off of spite anymore. So, that's that's great. You know how
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many days it's been since I cried in this office? A lot. >> If it wasn't for Well, never mind. But
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>> yeah, >> you know. >> Yeah. >> I didn't The last time I cried, it wasn't workrelated. No. And that's
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>> And before we used to have a countdown in this room of how many days it had been since I cried.
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>> That's not even a joke. We literally made a sign that said, "It has been this
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many days since Ash cried in the office >> because work was so horrible for about 3
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years >> and everybody was always mad at us." >> Yeah. So, yeah. So, we're not there
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anymore. And I'm glad it seems like you guys are feeling it along with us, which
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is like >> just giving us even more happiness and more like just motivation to give you
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what we can give you. >> Yeah. It just feels good. >> Yeah. I'm actually gonna post I want to
00:03:38
start posting I've been saying I wanted to like post some like >> recipes >> recipes and some recommendations for
00:03:44
like books and movies and stuff and that's gonna start now too. So like >> get ready for that on like the Instagram
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and stuff and >> it'll be fun. We're going to have a lot of fun guys and I'm excited.
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>> I like it. >> Um this case is not fun. >> No. >> Uh the fun ends here. >> Okay.
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>> Just so everybody knows. I don't think I know this case. >> This one I remember very vividly
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happening. It's obviously very recent or moderately recent then. >> It's from 2001 which still feels like it
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was 10 years ago. >> 25 >> uh almost years ago. >> You know, it still feels very it feels
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like it was literally 10 years ago. Like 2001 does not feel that long ago. >> 2001 feels like a very long time ago in
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my life. >> Not for me. I remember so vividly 20 >> I was 16. Yeah. So I was very Jesus. I
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was very sentient and very like aware of everything. So, I think it just hits a little harder.
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>> 2001 is the first date that I remember writing on a paper like in school. >> Wow.
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>> Whenever I hear 2001, I literally have a vivid memory of being in my first grade
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classroom and writing the year in like the little date space. >> Look at that. >> Yeah. Isn't it weird? That is weird. I
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have a weird I have like a weird mind. Like I can see like pictures in my mind sometimes of times and of numbers. Yeah,
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I know. That's fun. >> Yeah, >> you have a weird brain. >> You do, too. >> I love that for us.
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>> Cheers. >> Uh, cheers to weird brains. Uh, so yeah, before we get into that was our ice machine.
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>> You really said before we get into it, it said, >> "Hold on. We're shutting off the ice
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machine." I feel like we should just leave this in. >> Yeah. >> I think this is what the people want. I
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think you want the behind the scenes like we used to. where I just wouldn't edit out all the [ __ ]
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>> Mikey, leave it in. >> Mikey's like a way better editor than I was, so like I would just leave
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everything in. >> Don't say that. >> But yeah, leave it in. >> You know, some more vintage morbid of
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like ice machines turning on and [ __ ] >> Yeah, maybe I'll fall off the couch later just for old time sake.
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>> Ho ho ho. >> If you weren't an early listener, I once fell off a recliner mid- recording and
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went ho ho. According according to Elena, >> I'll never forget that sound. That ho ho
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sound. >> I survived. I don't even We were just sitting too. Like I don't know how I
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fell. >> It was mid story. >> Leaning back too far and the whole recliner went. >> That recliner was awesome. You still
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have that? >> Yeah. Yeah, we do. >> Let's go. Bring it back in. >> Bring it back. No, that that's when you
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banned me from sitting on the recliner and that's when we sat back on the floor >> cuz you would either fall off of it or
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get too much and hit things and people would be like, "So, I did hear this thing."
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>> Early days of morbid, I was always [ __ ] with something, whether it be a recliner, a bobby pin, a battery.
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>> She would start playing with something and I would just hold my hand out like a
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parent like put it in my hand. >> I was like, "That's going to make noise throughout the entire episode."
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>> I'll always be me. I at the live show the other night, I almost went out with
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gum in my in my mouth. Like I was like, "Oh, [ __ ] I have gum in my mouth." >> She also immediately spilled broth.
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I forgot about that. Okay, Wilbert. Uh, time to be real with you guys. We cleaned it up. But
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>> I was so worried about my tummy. I couldn't really eat that much. So, I was like, "Oh, I'll get ramen." Like that
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like like good genuine ramen that will like soothe my belly. >> Genuine ramen. >> Yeah. Not like I was like I just said I
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was going to soo my tummy and then people heard ramen and they were like, "Bitch, are you okay?" But like I mean
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like from like a yummy like like place authentic. Um and I went to pour in the broth and I literally just knocked it
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all over the table in the green room of the Wilbur and I said I'm here. >> It was immediate on impact she spilled
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broth all over the table >> and it was like not a little bit of broth. It was so much broth
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>> and we said yep. >> I said I mean the room smelled really good. >> It smelled like broth. But then we like
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needed to move the posters to sell them somewhere else. It was a big thing. It was pretty great. I am who I am. That's
00:07:54
all that I am. >> Byebye. You know. >> All right. Um but yeah, so lots of We'll share some fun like seasonal stuff when
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we can on the socials like some recipes and some recommendations. I'm excited to
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start doing that. >> Yeah, I am too actually >> cuz I just watched Clown in a Cornfield
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>> and it's as one does. It's based off of um a book called Con in the Cornfield by
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Adam Caesar. I believe his name is >> Caesar. And I have the book. I watched the movie now and now I can't wait to
00:08:23
read the book. Did you finish the movie? >> Shout out to him. Uh I did. I finally I
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finished it cuz cuz I have co. So while the girls were at after school activities, I had like 45 minutes of
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just like quiet. >> And you didn't do what I suggested? Well, I I have to choose because
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um Ash suggested I watch Halloween Wars or Bacon Championship, which I will, but
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I can watch I watch that with the girls. >> Yeah. So, you want to watch >> I got to watch a horror movie. I got to
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watch something I can't have on when they are in the neighborhood even like I can't I never throw on a horror movie
00:08:59
when they're >> when they're in town. >> Yeah. Even if they're at a friend's house like near us, I'm like they could
00:09:03
come back at any time. >> It's true. >> I can't traumatize them like this. They just walk in and here like and I'm like
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oh god. So I immediately put on clown in a cornfield and was like finish him. >> It's a fun [ __ ] movie.
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>> Should we cover it on screen? >> We should cuz it is fun as hell. I feel like it's Oh, Scream listeners. We're
00:09:22
back. >> We are. We're back. We didn't die. >> We did not die. We took some time off.
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>> We're so back. >> It's like the one show that we like can take time off. So we took advantage. So
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we took advantage. And Caleb is like the most understanding human on the planet of Earth. Yeah, I think everybody
00:09:36
everybody needed a lot >> had stuff going on. >> It was impromptu, but but we're back.
00:09:40
So, >> but uh but yeah, I I highly recommend Clown in a Cornfield. That'll be part of
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my recommendations probably that I post. It's really fun. >> I feel like your recommendations are
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going to be like horror and like books and stuff. And mine are going to be like >> cute boots for wide calf giries,
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>> which these are all things people need. >> Valid, well-rounded individuals. I just
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got so many cute boots for wide calf giries. >> I love that. >> Here's the I got called out by the lady.
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>> Michaela is a wide calf girly. >> I know. I actually took some of her recommendations. She bought so many
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boots. >> She did. >> I was getting a pedicure the other day and the woman said, "Oh, your calves are
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so strong." >> And I said, "What a lovely way of saying that." >> I said, "Did you just say that I have
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the thickest calves in the United Nations?" >> She said, "No, so strong." >> She said, "So strong.
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>> So strong." And I was like, I love that. Personally, >> I didn't know how to feel about it in
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the moment. >> They're so strong. She's saying like, you can kick some ass with these with
00:10:37
these >> with these thighs. You were >> with these thighs. I mean, sure. Why not? Then
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>> Exactly. >> And apparently strong calves kick ass. >> I like it. There you go.
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>> Yeah. But I was like, you're like, well, look at that. >> Okay. So then I was like, maybe I'm a
00:10:51
wide calf girly. Cuz whenever I got boots in the past, I was like, why aren't these working all of a sudden?
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>> See, >> my calves got too strong. it. I mean, everybody's got something. I have like
00:11:00
my feet are super wide, so I can't fit like narrow shoes. Like, I have to get wide shoes.
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>> So, it's all We all got something that's like we just have to be a little more
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mindful of when we buy things. >> Exactly. Well, I have recommendations for my strong calf gals.
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>> I don't like wide calf. How about strong calf? >> Strong calf. That's what we need to
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call. >> I'm reclaiming it. >> Michaela, you hear that? Strong calf. >> Strong calf. Michaela, do you hear us?
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>> I know. I love you. I think she's so funny. >> I love her a lot. >> I do too.
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>> Fellow Boston girl. I just wish good things for her. >> I do too. I think she has good things.
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>> I send I send good vibes. >> I do too. And I by the power of Christ, I compel those who don't send her good
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vibes to go away. >> Yeah. >> That's not cool. >> Oh, it compelling somebody means you
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want them to, right? By the power of Christ, I compel you. >> Yeah. Cuz the whole thing is the power
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of Christ compels you to like get out of that person. >> Yeah. I I compel you to to get
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>> to get to exercise out of situation. >> By the power of Christ. By the power of
00:11:55
Christ. >> All right. We should get into it cuz I could talk for hours about nothing.
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>> It's true. >> And we have a bonus episode soon. So that's where we >> That's where we should do that. So we
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need to remember that we have that bonus episode where we can we can just [ __ ]
00:12:08
talk the [ __ ] >> you know, just like and I mean it in a good way. Like >> maybe we could just do like a life catch
00:12:12
up. Would you guys like that? >> Just let us know if you guys have any like any kind of ideas.
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>> We've had to be so structured for so many years. >> That's the thing. So we don't now that
00:12:22
we have one episode don't know what to do >> every month that we can be like loosey
00:12:27
goosey and like make it whatever we want. We almost don't know how to be unstructured because we've
00:12:33
>> you know so please if you guys have idea like we have some ideas but we also want
00:12:38
to make it something that you guys like really dig and have fun with. So if there are ideas that you have that
00:12:43
you're like I really wish you would do this for your bonus episode throw them our way. We'll at least consider all of
00:12:47
them for sure. like you're the people who are listening so we want to make you happy.
00:12:52
>> Defo. All right. So, let's go back 24 years ago, I think, almost 25 to 2001. Let's go. So, this is I'm We're going to
00:13:00
be doing the Dartmouth College murders. >> Okay. >> I don't know. >> Um, this is a really It's a sad one. It
00:13:07
really is. It's a rough one. It's a sad one. It's I remember this happening on I
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remember watching the news reports. I remember thinking this couple that the two victims were just like the most
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adorable people and I was just like so sad for them. So >> it's a very crazy case.
00:13:23
>> Okay, >> so it was already dark when Roxanna Verona arrived at Hoff and Susanna
00:13:29
Xantop's house in Etna, New Hampshire at 6:30 p.m. on January 27th, 2001. The trio had been friends forever. They'd
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been friends for a lot of years. They met as co-workers um at Dartmouth College, which was pretty nearby. And
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they got together pretty regularly for like dinners, dinner parties. Like they were just like fun friends.
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>> Yeah. They were what Amy Puller would call a good hang. >> Exactly. >> Great [ __ ] show, by the way.
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>> There you go. So when Roxanna got to the door, she rang the bell and she waited.
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She was just like so excited to see her friends. They always answered all enthusiastically. It was just like, you
00:14:05
know, excited to see each other. Yeah. But a few moments passed and no one came to the door there. So she was like a
00:14:12
little she was like we have plans, you know, what are we doing here? >> And I'm sure that was unusual.
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>> So she rang the bell a second time and waited. And when a few more moments passed with no sign of Susanna and Hoff,
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Verona tried the door handle and it turned like opened and she was like, "Wait a second."
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>> Now to the residents of Etna, which has a population of like about 900. >> Oh [ __ ] locking your doors was kind of
00:14:38
like foreign and unnecessary at this point. Like it really was. It was that kind of town.
00:14:42
>> 2001 too. It was still >> a nicer time to be alive. >> It still was like, you know, and this is
00:14:49
like this is the beginning of the year. It's January. We're still in that like innocent time of, you know, before
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>> everything exploded in life, you know. So, it's a of course like there were things happening, but you know what I
00:15:02
mean. A little more of an innocent time. Um, but after being in Etna for more than three decades at this point, Hoff
00:15:10
and Susanna definitely were vigilant and they did lock their doors and they would
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like they would keep the door locked. They would unlock it to let people in and they would lock it again. Like they
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just were like that's just who they were. As soon as a guest arrived, locked the door.
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>> Same >> smart. They were just, you know, they were just vigilant. So Roxanna remembered um all the times she'd
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arrived at the house before and Susanna was always ready to meet her guests. Like she was never somebody that you had
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to sit outside and like wait for her to come. >> She was a good host. >> Yeah. And so she thought, okay, like cuz
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she's trying to obviously the last thing she wants to think is something bad happened. So her thought was, okay, it's
00:15:48
cold outside. Maybe she just like was really busy cooking or something and she knew she wouldn't be able to like run to
00:15:53
the door. So she didn't want her friend to wait in the cold cuz that's who Susanna is.
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>> Wow. >> So she's like, "Maybe that's what it is." Like she just wanted me to walk in.
00:16:02
So she was like, "Okay." She just left the door unlocked for me. That's what it is. So she also remembered too something
00:16:07
about Hoff going to visit a friend that afternoon with plans for him to join a little later in the evening. So she was
00:16:13
like, "So there you go. Hoff can't answer the door because he's not here and Susan is busy and she doesn't want
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me to be cold. >> Bingo. That's what it is. So, she goes in, she drapes her coat and purse over
00:16:23
the chair just inside the doorway and she makes her way to the dining room and she sees that set down, you know,
00:16:30
there's like a dinner plates ready and she sets down the salad that she had brought and Hoff and Susanna were
00:16:36
definitely not like neat freaks. Like they weren't like they didn't have like a museum house kind of thing, but they
00:16:42
always definitely kept their house in order. Yeah, like tidy. So Roxanna was very surprised to find that there was
00:16:48
like clearly like they had started to like get things ready for the evening, but the actual dining room table was
00:16:54
still covered in papers as well and like other evidence that someone had been working there earlier in the day, which
00:17:01
like they would have cleaned that up before setting the table. So she pokes her head in the kitchen and she's
00:17:06
expecting to see Susanna there, but the kitchen's empty. And she was like, "Okay." Okay. And she looks though and
00:17:11
she's like clearly she started prepping dinner. Like there was evidence of that.
00:17:15
>> Mhm. >> So Roxanna calls out Susanna's name a few times expecting her to reply or just
00:17:20
hearing some kind of movement at anything. >> But the house is completely still and
00:17:24
silent. >> Oh, that's so chilling. >> So she was like trying to think of other things. Maybe she ran out to get
00:17:29
something cuz she forgot it. Like but she wouldn't have left the door unlocked when she did that. Like she all these
00:17:34
things are going through her head. So she's confused. She's getting very panicky, very uncomfortable. And Roxanna
00:17:40
makes her way down the hall to Hoff's study. And it's there that things really shifted into terror instead of just
00:17:48
uncomfort, >> discomfort, excuse me. >> So instead of just the orderly rows of books and neat stacks of paper on the
00:17:55
desk that, you know, she was always used to seeing in there, the study was in a total state of disarray, like it had
00:18:02
been ransacked. The first thing her eyes settled on too was Susanna's body lying
00:18:08
just a few feet from the door. >> Oh no. >> She was faced down with a pool of blood
00:18:12
surrounding her head like a halo, Roxanna said. >> Oh. >> But that wasn't all. Blood had also
00:18:17
soaked through the sweatshirt that she was wearing and through her pants. She was covered.
00:18:21
>> Oh wow. >> Now a few feet away, Hoff was there as well, lying on his side, his head
00:18:26
resting on the bottom shelf of the bookcase. He landed so hard that it knocked aside several heavy textbooks.
00:18:34
Like clearly he had been like he had like there. >> Yeah. >> Like Susanna, he was covered in blood.
00:18:41
It had soaked through his wool sweater and down the legs of his pants. >> Um one leg of his pants had a huge tear
00:18:48
in the fabric. And Roxanna looked at Hoff's face and she said it was just waxing and lifeless, like completely
00:18:55
drained of blood. >> Oh, that's awesome. It was a very brutal scene. >> Just like the detail of his wool
00:19:00
sweater, I don't know what that that just like did something to me. >> When you look them up, they're just like
00:19:05
the cutest couple. They just seems like >> like good people. >> Yeah. >> The room had been completely ransacked.
00:19:12
A card table had flipped on its side. A chair was turned over. Books and papers were everywhere, all splattered with
00:19:18
blood, and they were scattered everywhere. Then Roxanna saw something that at first was so unexpected in the
00:19:26
Zentop house that it was almost unrecognizable to her. On the floor by Hoff's left foot was a hard plastic
00:19:33
knife sheath like the one used as like a hunting knife. >> Okay. >> And she was like, "Yeah, that would not
00:19:39
be in their house, right?" >> And she spotted a second sheath on the floor a few feet away near Susanna's uh
00:19:44
sandal. >> Strange. Each was about a foot long and 3 in wide, suggesting that whatever type
00:19:51
of knife they were designed to hold was [ __ ] gigantic. >> Like a big hunting knife.
00:19:56
>> Yeah. That's massive. A foot long. >> Yeah. >> Like and 3 in wide was how big the
00:20:03
sheath was. >> Yeah. No. >> So once she was finally able to kind of get some clarity on what she was looking
00:20:08
at, she started to panic. Obviously she needed to call someone. So, it occurred to her that, oh [ __ ] the killer or
00:20:15
killers might still be in this [ __ ] house. >> I was just going to say that like that
00:20:19
terror washing over you that somebody could still be in there. >> You're seeing your two dead friends
00:20:24
brutally murdered in front of you. You're having to comprehend that and then also having that added [ __ ] like I
00:20:32
got to get out of here. >> I don't even know how to get out of here. >> Right. So, she did remember even through
00:20:37
the terror that Hoff and Susanna's neighbor, Bob McCollum, uh, who she met several times at previous parties, she
00:20:44
was like, "Okay, I remember him. I have to get to the neighbor." So, she ran out
00:20:48
of the study and down the hall, grabbing her purse and coat before ripping the door open and frantically hunting for
00:20:53
her car keys. >> Oh, god. So, at the Mcllum house, Bob, his wife Audrey, their daughter Cindy,
00:20:59
and Cindy's husband John were just sitting down to dinner to celebrate Bob's 76th birthday.
00:21:05
>> Oh, no. >> When they heard a frantic knocking at the front door and then they heard a
00:21:11
woman just screaming. >> Oh. So, Bob opens the door, finds Roxanna, and he's like, "Okay, I vaguely
00:21:17
remember this woman from Hoff and Susanna's party." >> Like, I know who this is. But she's in
00:21:22
this panicked state. And so they usher her inside and they're trying like, "Okay, what happened?" And she's like
00:21:27
crying. She's trying to explain it. And she tells them what she discovered at the Xantop. So Audrey calls 911 and Bob
00:21:34
and Cindy, both doctors, drove over to the neighbor, their neighbor's house to see if there was anything they could do
00:21:40
until the paramedics arrived. They ran right into there. >> Wow. Like no thought for their own
00:21:45
safety. Just like, "Let's go try to help our friends." So, as soon as they entered the study,
00:21:49
Bob and Cindy knew they'd arrived far too late to be of any help to their friends.
00:21:54
>> Yeah. >> Audrey later told a reporter it was obvious that they had been dead for some
00:21:58
time. >> Uh, after she hung up with the 911 dispatcher, Audrey called her friend
00:22:03
Steve Gordon, who was the editor of the local newspaper, The Valley News, and asked him to please monitor the police
00:22:09
scanner for any news or updates. Officer Brad Sergeant of the Handover Police Department was the first to arrive on
00:22:15
the scene and Cindy met him in the driveway and brought him into the house and then Bob walked the officer down the
00:22:21
hall to the study. So they briefly took in the chaos of the room and the state of the victims and then the officer
00:22:27
radioed the dispatcher and canceled the ambulance and then asked for the coroner
00:22:31
to be sent. Now, within 10 minutes, Brad Sergeant was joined by Handover Police Chief Nick uh Giaonei,
00:22:38
who quickly followed by was followed by a string of investigators from handover um and several detectives from New
00:22:44
Hampshire State Police and the Grafton County Sheriff's Department. >> So, aside from a pretty brutal axe
00:22:52
murder of two students a decade earlier, there hadn't been a murder in the area in nearly half a century, and everyone
00:22:59
seemed at loss for what they were supposed to do here. Did you say axe murder? >> Yes.
00:23:04
>> Oh, okay. >> So, they didn't have a lot of it, but when they did, they were big.
00:23:09
>> Yeah. >> So, Gone cleared the scene of any non-essential members of law enforcement
00:23:14
just to preserve the maximum amount of evidence they could, and the McCollums and Roxanna Verona returned to the
00:23:20
Mcllum house to answer some questions. Now, while the neighbors attempted to provide law enforcement with any
00:23:26
information that they could to help aid the investigation, investigators started
00:23:30
processing the scene. In the kitchen, there was food out on the counters and as Roxanna had said, it
00:23:37
looked like someone had been preparing dinner when they were interrupted. There was also an opened bottle of Merllo wine
00:23:42
on the counter with only one glass. Okay. Like she was like having a glass of wine while cooking.
00:23:47
>> Yeah. The weirdest thing about the scene was that while the study had been ransacked as though the killers were
00:23:52
looking for valuables, the rest of the house was in pretty normal order. >> So, they were looking for something in
00:23:57
that study. >> Yeah. In fact, it was as though someone had hit the pause button on a remote
00:24:01
control and left their evening, like what the Xanop's evening was just frozen in that moment before the murders. It
00:24:08
was very chilling. >> Yeah. >> Um because nothing else seemed to be missing from the house, robbery seemed
00:24:13
like an unlikely motive for the murder. Mhm. >> But if it was a robbery, what the [ __ ]
00:24:18
else was the motive for killing these two people >> so brutally, too? >> Yeah. Over the course of 3 days,
00:24:23
investigators from multiple state and local agencies were in and out of that house. They were processing the scene,
00:24:29
collecting whatever they could. Unfortunately, after days scouring the house, there was very little evidence
00:24:35
that pointed them in the direction of a killer, like who it was. In total, state
00:24:40
crime scene technicians removed 105 items from the entire house, including doorork knobs, key rings, a calendar,
00:24:48
Hoff's laptop, bloodstained books from the office where the bodies were found, and in on top of that, a team of five
00:24:56
forensic officers spent nearly a day combing the rugs in the house for any hair or fiber evidence that could
00:25:02
identify the killer. >> Wow. I think they just took whatever they could because there was so little
00:25:08
evidence that I think they just were like, "Take everything, whatever we can." >> A total of 19 different finger and palm
00:25:14
prints were collected from the scene. >> At least two belong to the victims and three more were quickly identified as
00:25:20
Bob and Cindy McCollum and Roxanna. >> Mhm. >> Several others were soon identified as
00:25:25
those of various investigators, which left a small number unidentified and potentially belonging to a killer.
00:25:31
Outside the study, investigators discovered five drops of blood as well as five quote partial or near complete
00:25:38
bloody bootprints that didn't match any footwear in the house. >> Okay, >> so that was something. Yeah.
00:25:45
[Music] The day after Hoff and Susanna's bodies were discovered, an autopsy was conducted. But it also didn't prove a
00:26:04
whole lot. At least from an investigative standpoint, I I would say according to the ME, Dr. Thomas Gillson
00:26:11
Hoff had suffered multiple stab wounds with injuries of the airway, heart, and lung. While Susanna's death resulted
00:26:18
from multiple stab wounds with injuries of the skull, brain, major vessel, thyroid cartridge, airway, intestine,
00:26:26
and spleen. >> Wow. >> Yeah. I mean, that knife, >> they had some damage. >> They had been brutally stabbed to death,
00:26:34
both of them. Hoff in the chest and Susanna in the head, chest, and stomach. >> Oh god. The time of death was estimated
00:26:41
to be a few hours before Roxanna Verona discovered their bodies. Oh. >> And Gibson noted that given the extent
00:26:48
and severity of the wounds, their deaths would have occurred within seconds to minutes, which at least there's that.
00:26:54
You just hope closer to seconds. >> Yeah. >> Aside from the bootprints and the five
00:26:58
droplets of blood, the most promising lead was the plastic knife sheets left at the scene. Like that's a big deal. We
00:27:04
saw that in the um Idaho murders. That knife sheath can really prove a lot. Yeah.
00:27:09
>> Um, the fact that you write to [ __ ] Amazon in that case. >> Yeah, for real.
00:27:14
>> The fact that there were two sheets suggested to investigators that there were likely two killers.
00:27:19
>> I mean, two knives. >> Yeah. I mean, unless he uses one and then just takes out another, but that's
00:27:24
very unlikely. >> Um, in fact, that belief was supported by the fact that each sheath had a
00:27:29
different set of fingerprints on it. >> Ah, which detectives assumed belonged to
00:27:33
the killers. Right. Unfortunately, when the prints were run through various databases, state and federal level, they
00:27:40
never got a match, >> which is even scarier because I'm like, "Oh, so this is like one of your first
00:27:45
crimes." >> Yeah. At least >> like what the [ __ ] >> right? >> So, the sheaths were also significant in
00:27:51
that they didn't appear to belong to an ordinary hunting knife. In almost every rural state like New Hampshire, it
00:27:58
wouldn't have been unusual for a person to own one or more hunting knives. It's just part of the culture,
00:28:03
>> right? But these sheets weren't familiar to any of the investigators. And upon
00:28:08
further investigation, detectives learned that the sheaths were likely designed to contain what's colloially
00:28:14
known as this SOG knife, a particular style of blade that's designed for and issued to members of the studies and
00:28:22
observations group. Among other things, members of the SOG were typically assigned to special covert missions
00:28:29
during the Vietnam War era. What? And the blade was designed to be untraceable in the event that the carrier was
00:28:38
captured. >> What? >> Yeah. So, was it almost left? It almost feels like that was left like to mock in
00:28:46
that scenario. >> Oh, they just do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. >> Like like here's the sheets but it's
00:28:52
untraceable, >> right? Yeah. >> That is Isn't that [ __ ] up? >> Really [ __ ] up in Vietnam War era.
00:28:58
It's like who did the thing? Now, according to the analysts, the sheaths were relatively new and designed to hold
00:29:05
an SOG knife known as a SOG Seal 2000, which was a 12in knife with a 7in blade and a 5in handle.
00:29:16
>> Wow. >> The knives themselves had only been on the market for roughly 5 years.
00:29:20
>> Okay. >> Uh but the sheaths were new this year and had only been on the market for
00:29:25
about 10 months. So, there was that. >> Okay. Unfortunately for investigators, the SOG Seal 2000 was a very popular
00:29:32
knife with weapons collectors. So tracking down the seller of that particular knife would not be easy.
00:29:37
>> Yeah. >> But it was at least a start >> something. Yeah, you got to go on something.
00:29:40
>> And before closing out the report, the analyst did note one other thing. Although it might have resembled a
00:29:45
hunting knife to like an untrained eye, the Seal 2000 quote could only be considered a hunting knife if the
00:29:52
intended prey were human. which is the most chilling statement I've ever read. >> I'm sorry. Say that again.
00:29:58
>> It could only be considered a hunting knife if the intended prey were human. >> Says who?
00:30:04
>> The analyst. >> What? >> Yeah. >> So, what is it used for otherwise? >> That's what he said. It It looks like a
00:30:11
hunting knife. Like you would hunt deer and whatever the [ __ ] else people hunt.
00:30:15
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Not used for that. >> No. >> He was like, "The only way that this is
00:30:19
a hunting knife is if you're trying to hunt humans." >> What the [ __ ] Yeah. Which is the most
00:30:25
chilling statement. >> I hate that so much. >> Yeah. >> Uh so while one set of investigators
00:30:32
began the slow and very tedious work of tracking the knife to some kind of origin point, another group started
00:30:40
looking into the backgrounds of the victims. Since it didn't look like this was a robbery as a motive and the
00:30:46
murders had been so up close and so [ __ ] brutal. Yeah, >> it was fair to assume the Xantos had
00:30:52
been killed for some personal reason, right? Like it didn't make sense otherwise. In fact, on the night of the
00:30:57
murders, Audrey McCollum remembered a recent conversation with Hoff in which he had mentioned something about a bad
00:31:03
interaction with a student and she wondered if that might be related to their deaths. Okay,
00:31:09
>> now >> good for her to remember that in all her >> to think that clearly, >> you know.
00:31:13
>> Now, according to McCollum, the Xanops had a reputation for teach for reaching
00:31:17
out to their students if they thought they were struggling academically or emotionally,
00:31:21
>> which is kind, >> which is so [ __ ] kind. A few weeks later, Hoff had described a student in
00:31:27
one of his classes that Audrey, who is a a former mental health professional, uh
00:31:32
to her it sounded like the young man was struggling with bipolar or some other, you know, psychiatric disorder. Okay.
00:31:38
And he needed help. >> Okay. >> Um she said, "I think there may have been a troubled student and Hoff may
00:31:44
have underestimated how troubled he was." >> Oh. Um, McCollum's suspicion took an
00:31:49
additional significance when later that evening, Handover police learned that Dartmouth campus police had received
00:31:55
reports from residents of one of the dorms regarding a strange young man who'd showed up at their door asking to
00:32:02
use the phone just a few hours after the Xanto's estimated time of death. >> Oh, that feels connected.
00:32:08
>> Yeah. During one interaction, the man reportedly asked residents if they had heard any police sirens before wandering
00:32:15
off into the dark woods behind the dorma territory. I'm sorry, what? >> Yeah. >> The [ __ ]
00:32:21
>> Now, aside from the vague reports of like this strange [ __ ] on campus. >> Sorry. Imagine having that experience in
00:32:27
college. Somebody knocks on your door and is like, "Hey, can I use your phone? Did you hear any police sirens?"
00:32:31
>> And then it's just like, "Peace." Like the [ __ ] >> Like what the I would >> I'd cry. I' I'd huddle in the corner and
00:32:38
cry and not stop. >> I'd be like, "Police, you need to surround the building." >> Yeah.
00:32:42
>> FBI, everybody. >> Defend us. >> Everybody. >> Now, aside from these like crazy vague
00:32:50
reports of like this weirdo on campus, there were no other unusual reports made that day or night. And no one close to
00:32:55
the couple, including their two adult children. >> Oh. >> Could think of any reason why someone
00:33:00
would want to hurt them, let alone kill them. Oh, that breaks your heart that you you get to have your parents like
00:33:05
for that long and that's how they >> this is how it happens like >> leave like that's terrible
00:33:10
>> in their own home. >> Yeah, that's so [ __ ] >> As far as their colleagues at Dartmouth
00:33:13
were concerned, Hoff and Susanna Xantop were among the most respected and beloved faculty on the entire campus.
00:33:20
>> That makes sense because again you look at pictures of them and you're like like
00:33:23
they have such a welcoming energy even via photo. >> Yeah, their vibes are correct. So, I
00:33:28
can't imagine like I feel like walking into their classroom, you'd be like, "Oh, this is going to be a really good
00:33:33
class." >> Yeah. >> Coworker Susanna Hchel told reporters, "The first reason I wouldn't want to
00:33:38
leave Dartmouth is that I wouldn't want to leave Susanna Xantop." >> A like, >> "Wow, yeah, that's huge."
00:33:46
>> Now, the murder of two well-loved professors wasn't the only thing on everyone's mind. There was also the
00:33:52
matter of their killer. They're like, "This is a horrible situation. What the who the [ __ ] did this?"
00:33:56
>> Yeah. And is this random? Is this pointed? What is this? >> Now, uh, situated along like the border
00:34:02
of Vermont in an area of New Hampshire known as the upper valley, Hanover is a small town populated mostly by Dartmouth
00:34:09
faculty, staff, and students. >> And like you said, it's a small town. You saw like 900 people.
00:34:14
>> Yeah. Um, now this is uh so like Hanover is the So that was Etna. That was >> Oh. Oh, I see. This is Hanover. Um,
00:34:23
where like Dartmouth faculty, staff, and students. You said, "Honey, I have another small town."
00:34:27
>> I have another small town. Uh, it has a little over It's It's not like small by
00:34:31
definition. I would say it has a small town feel. >> Uh, cuz it has a little over like 10,000
00:34:36
residents. Okay. >> Um, it's one of the biggest towns in the region, in fact, but it does have that
00:34:40
like homey >> all-encompassing Dartmouth people kind of live here. Yeah. >> Um, >> like college town vibes.
00:34:47
>> Yeah. And because of the small town nature of the area, it seemed like the Xanops knew their killers. And if that
00:34:54
were the case, it seemed equally likely the killers were still in the area. >> Uh, one student told the press, "The
00:34:59
fact that it's two professors suggested someone closer to home." >> Yeah. >> So, the prospect of a killer just uh
00:35:06
walking around made everyone in and around Dartmouth pretty [ __ ] uneasy. >> I I'd imagine.
00:35:12
>> Yeah. Um, so Dartmouth uh, President James Wright told reporters, "At the bottom line, we've lost two people whom
00:35:19
we love and respect. a community such as ours has a has to find a way to grieve.
00:35:23
And I think it's hard for us to do this under the circumstances because they can't they can't properly grieve because
00:35:29
they're also [ __ ] terrified. Terrified. That's such a mix of emotions. >> Yeah. And the fears and frustrations of
00:35:35
this whole thing weren't just felt by people who worked with Hoff and Susanna. They also extended to the thousands of
00:35:41
students who lived in and around the campus. >> One Dartmouth junior said, "People are
00:35:45
just scared. There's a lot of confusion about who, why, what. The confusion and frustration felt by everyone in Hanover
00:35:53
and Etna were due at least in part to the silence and very slow flow of information coming from the state and
00:36:01
local police working the case as well. From the moment the news of the murders broke, officials on the case seemed
00:36:07
pretty [ __ ] hesitant to share much of anything with the local and regional press and especially not residents of
00:36:14
the town, >> which is frustrating but also likely a good thing. >> Yeah. State Attorney General Philip
00:36:20
Mlofflin told reporters in the early days of the investigation, "What you're going to find from me is a real
00:36:26
reticence to discuss the details of this case." >> And I mean, sometimes you have to
00:36:30
respect it. >> I remember thinking like just like uh you were touched on it earlier, the
00:36:35
Idaho murders. I remember thinking like they're not saying anything. Like why are they not giving any information? I
00:36:40
remember being frustrated, but >> it does have a way of working out and you it's hard, but you just have to kind
00:36:48
of believe in the the local law enforcement that they're going to do what they need to do.
00:36:52
>> Sometimes it's for the best and sometimes it gets them where they need to go,
00:36:55
>> right? >> Cuz especially in the age of like the internet and social media, it can [ __ ]
00:37:01
up an investigation like that >> so easy. >> I mean, look at how it all shaked out,
00:37:06
you know, with like the Idaho investigation. Those poor roommates. >> Oh, they got villainized immediately
00:37:13
>> and ret-raumatized in a hundred different ways by people on social media saying that they were the killers,
00:37:18
>> right? Exactly. >> Or that they knew something. >> Social media has really it can do great
00:37:24
things, but it's a detriment at the same time. >> It's more of a detriment at this point.
00:37:28
Like so they especially now like investigators have to be careful what they share because it will get [ __ ] up
00:37:36
on the interwebs and it's like >> it's just the way it is and back here in the early days of everything. They were
00:37:42
still doing that just to make sure that town gossip didn't [ __ ] because it's like a real life social media you know.
00:37:48
>> Yeah. Now, according to Mclofflin, the silence from investigators in the AG's
00:37:53
office was exclusively for the purpose of maintaining the integrity of investigation
00:37:58
>> like we were just saying, >> but obviously that didn't make it reporters or anyone else feel any safer.
00:38:03
>> No. And I mean, you're a reporter, you want to report on going. Now, while the
00:38:07
state attorney general's office did its best to dodge questions about the investigation and trooper Chuck West
00:38:13
worked to track down the seller of the murder weapons, the remaining detectives started digging deeper into Hoff and
00:38:19
Susanna's backgrounds. As far as they could tell, both were teachers of the utmost integrity, and it seemed that
00:38:26
whatever had motivated someone to kill them, it didn't have anything to do with their work at Dartmouth.
00:38:31
>> Okay. >> With professional problems ruled out, that left only their personal lives.
00:38:35
>> Yeah. After all, when it comes to murder, there really aren't that many reasons that someone's going to go so
00:38:41
far to kill someone, especially that brutally, >> right? >> And detectives had already ruled out the
00:38:48
biggest. >> Now, Hoff and Susanna Zanto were born in Germany at the end of World War II, and
00:38:54
their early lives were pretty ordinary, actually. Hoff's brother, Wolf, recalled
00:38:58
his brother as quote, "A normal young man, not the fastest, not the smartest, but he would work harder."
00:39:03
>> Oh. In 1960, Hoff earned a degree in geology in Germany, then traveled to the
00:39:08
US where he earned a PhD in geology. [ __ ] yeah. >> From Stanford University. >> Okay, Hoff.
00:39:14
>> In 1965. Work harder, he said. I got that. >> Seriously, >> it was during that period of his life
00:39:21
that he met Susanna, who was also studying at Stanford. Susanna graduated with her master's degree in political
00:39:28
science in 1965. >> Okay, girl. And that's when Hoff took a job with a mining company and the couple
00:39:34
relocated to South South America actually. >> Oh wow. >> 5 years later they were married. Um very
00:39:40
much to the delight of their respective families who thought they quote made a beautiful couple.
00:39:45
>> Oh, >> they did. >> They did. Can confirm. >> They really did. Um a few years after
00:39:50
their marriage, they had their first child. Um a daughter they named Veronica. >> And it's Veronica with a K.
00:39:56
>> Oh, I love that. I think Veronica is such a cool girl name. >> Yeah. and a second daughter, Mariana,
00:40:01
followed two day two years later. >> A two days later, it was crazy. Whoa. >> Um, by the mid 1970s, Hoff had grown
00:40:08
tired of working in the corporate world and hoped that a career in academia would not only allow him to pursue his
00:40:14
passion for research. He loved research. Uh, but also he wanted to spend more time with his wife and daughters.
00:40:21
>> Oh. >> And he was hoping that that would allow him to do that. >> We [ __ ] love a girl dad.
00:40:26
>> We love a girl dad. >> Girl dad. Like all dads are special for sure. most of them. But
00:40:31
>> I mean, >> girl dads, >> I'm married to a girl dad, so I just have a special place for girl dad.
00:40:35
>> I hope Drew becomes a girl dad, but I'll take any any kid. >> Yeah, a good dad.
00:40:40
>> Yeah, just a good dad. >> Now, in 1976, Hoff accepted a position in the earth sciences department at
00:40:46
Dartmouth College where he would spend the next 25 years. Uh throughout this period, Susanna focused most most of her
00:40:53
attention on raising her two daughters. Um, eventually once the girls required a
00:40:58
little less of her time, they got a little older, Susanna began taking graduate courses in comparative
00:41:04
literature at Harvard. >> Oh, okay. >> Earning her PhD in 1984. So, she has her masters from Stanford University and she
00:41:14
has her [ __ ] PhD from Harvard University. >> All while being a mama. Wow. >> Yeah. Women.
00:41:20
>> Yeah. Women. >> Susanna. >> Susanna. Like it kills me how [ __ ] awesome these people were. Like it kills
00:41:29
me. >> It's usually the case. >> Yeah. It's just like >> and some [ __ ] takes them out.
00:41:34
>> Oh yeah. I just have a feeling. >> Yeah. >> So the degree opened a lot of new
00:41:40
professional doors for Susanna and a short time later she joined the faculty at Dartmouth as a professor of German
00:41:46
and comparative literature. >> Cool. Uh she quickly became one of the most invaluable members of Dartmouth's
00:41:53
faculty and like her husband, she was among the most popular professors on campus from by students.
00:41:59
>> That's so cool. >> Uh fellow lit professor Bruce Duncan said she was an important mentor to many
00:42:04
students, particularly women. >> Yeah, she just has that that vibe. >> More than just mentors, the Xantos
00:42:11
became known around campus as some of the most supportive faculty at the school as well. Um Audrey McCollum
00:42:17
recalled later, they would offer shelter for troubled people for various different kinds of reasons on a
00:42:24
temporary bas basis. Wow. Welcome them into their [ __ ] home. >> Oh, this makes me so nervous.
00:42:31
>> But their kindness and compassion wasn't just limited to students. Hoff and Susanna seemed to collect friends
00:42:38
literally everywhere they went. >> Everyone wanted to be a part of them. They were just that those kind of
00:42:43
people. And within a few years, their home became a regular gathering place for dinner parties, celebrations, social
00:42:51
gatherings. Like that house was [ __ ] lively, happy, and like full of love. >> You can you it translates through the
00:42:59
story. Like you could feel it. >> And it kills me that's that like these demons turned it into something so
00:43:07
different. It's like how [ __ ] dare you infiltrate these people and their lives. jealousy. So to nearly everyone
00:43:15
who knew them, Hoff and Susanna were an ideal couple, a genuine partnership that
00:43:20
literally operated on mutual respect and shared responsibility and love. Yeah, >> that's it.
00:43:26
>> But of course, they they were just like a natural fit, it seemed to everybody.
00:43:31
But there were there were some times when people were like they didn't seem like a natural fit just because of they
00:43:37
could be a little different. >> Yeah. >> But I think that makes them more of a natural fit to be honest. I think like
00:43:42
we've said it before, opposites kind of attract. Even if they're not fully opposite, they have their differences.
00:43:48
>> There's things that like complement each other. Like Hoff was methodical, detailoriented,
00:43:53
a little rigid in his personality sometimes. Susanna on the other hand was more energetic, outgoing, very
00:43:59
passionate in her work and her home life. Uh, one friend said, "What they had in common was their endless
00:44:05
generosity, the openness of their home, their commitment to social justice, and the high standards they set for
00:44:11
themselves." >> Hell yeah. >> Uh, the couple's close friend, Maryanne Hirs, viewed their differences as, like
00:44:17
we just said, more complimentary than anything else. >> Um, she said their mutual devotion was
00:44:22
based on the respect they held for each other's way of being. >> Nice. >> That part I love their the respect they
00:44:27
had for each other's way of being, >> right? They never they didn't try to change each other.
00:44:32
>> They just respected who the other person was and it worked. >> That's a that's a
00:44:37
>> that's love. >> Yeah, that's top tier relationship [ __ ] >> That's real love. So, despite the
00:44:42
seemingly endless string of absolutely glowing reviews and character profiles of the couple, detectives on the case
00:44:49
couldn't help but notice that everyone seemed to point out, like we just said, how different they were from each other.
00:44:55
>> Okay. And I think that's the only thing anybody could point out. After two weeks
00:44:59
of very little progress and no new leads, they began to wonder, were those differences a strength in the
00:45:05
relationship like so many were suggesting or maybe were they a source of tension? Like they just had to
00:45:11
consider all these things. >> Okay. >> Um, Captain Nick Gone said they had so many contacts here in Hanover and
00:45:17
literally around the world. Um, and he said in a in a thorough investigation, we have to look basically at their
00:45:23
entire lives. >> Yeah. With all their contacts and new friends being made all the time,
00:45:27
investigators had to wonder, had one of those new friends managed to penetrate the unbreakable bond between them.
00:45:33
Perhaps >> I see where they're heading. >> They're trying to go down some path. >> I mean, when there's no path, you got to
00:45:39
go down some you got to forge one, you know. >> Now, given the brutality of the crimes
00:45:43
and the fact that little if anything had been taken from the house, investigators
00:45:47
started to think, okay, so we're thinking this might be personal. Maybe it's a crime of passion,
00:45:52
>> right? Uh, also they further theorized that because quote the weapon that was
00:45:56
used was heavy and they didn't think a woman would have used it, the killer was likely a man.
00:46:01
>> Okay. So they so they're starting to think like she's having some kind of affair basically.
00:46:05
>> Which also I'm like a woman can carry heavy things but like okay >> like sure very 2001 of you.
00:46:11
>> Like I guess we have to go somewhere here. Now whether or not investigators intended to imply anything about the way
00:46:16
the case was taking shape their comments to the press about looking into the Xanto's personal lives Yeah. Yeah. And
00:46:22
about the murders being a crime of passion. >> People are going to run with that.
00:46:25
>> They were interpreted by at least some journalists exactly how you did, meaning
00:46:30
related to infidelity. >> Pretty heavy-handed. >> Yeah, it definitely is. A reporter for
00:46:36
the Boston Globe wrote, "Hey, detectives declined to describe or identify in any way the woman they
00:46:43
believe had an affair with Hoff Xanto or the relationship between the woman and the presumed killer." So it's I think
00:46:51
they're basically saying like Yeah. >> So they think at this point at least they thought Hoff was having an affair
00:46:56
and that some woman like hired somebody to do things. Yeah. I think maybe they're I don't think they know what
00:47:01
they're doing here to be honest. It sounds very messy and it sounds very like >> counterintuitive to be quite honest.
00:47:09
>> Um vague language nonwithstanding here. It's clear that certain members of the press were under the impression that
00:47:17
the working theory, like you said, was that Hoff was having an affair with a woman and the murders were retribution
00:47:23
for that affair. >> Okay, that's really shitty that >> to put that out there. >> To put that out there and remember like
00:47:29
there's two grieving daughters. There's tons and tons of grieving and it's like you don't know them.
00:47:35
>> And that's the thing that they need to work with some theories and see how they pan out. Keep
00:47:41
that close to the chest. I was going to say, you're keeping everything else quiet. Shut the [ __ ] up about that. What
00:47:46
are you doing putting that out there? Cuz once it's out there, it's out there. >> You can't take that back.
00:47:49
>> Yeah. And it's like, >> and you're not going to change certain people's minds either.
00:47:52
>> Yeah. And you have these two daughters and they're sitting there having to probably defend against this. And it's
00:47:58
like that's the last thing they need to do. >> Yeah. With everything else they have
00:48:01
going on. >> Now, in the months and years that followed, the question of an extrammarital affair would become a
00:48:06
subject of considerable controversy with regard to the murder of the Xantos. The
00:48:11
day the article was published, the editors of the paper received multiple calls from investigators and the New
00:48:16
Hampshire Attorney General, all questioning the source of the information and the reliability of the
00:48:21
anonymous source quoted in the paper. In fact, just one week later, The Globe would publish a follow-up editorial
00:48:27
justifying the original article. >> Oh. >> Uh, yeah. Editor Matthew Storin wrote,
00:48:33
"Last Friday, The Globe published a front page story that said investigators were focusing on an extrammarital affair
00:48:39
involving Hoff Santo as a likely motive." And it continued, "It was and still is our intent to provide readers
00:48:46
with the most complete and accurate account possible of the ongoing Zanto murder investigation. To do so, we put
00:48:53
our trust in three law enforcement officials who we have had we have every reason to believe had intimate,
00:48:58
up-to-date knowledge of the investigation. It was certainly never our intent to increase the suffering of
00:49:04
the Xanto family. You did though. >> Yeah. Their friends or the Dartmouth College community. And we express regret
00:49:10
for the pain our story undoubtedly caused them. I'm glad they did that. >> I'm glad and
00:49:17
I don't know. Maybe think. >> Yeah. Maybe think. We've all made mistakes. We've all done [ __ ] like that.
00:49:24
And I have I'm very glad that they did that >> because said I we should not have said
00:49:29
that. >> A lot of papers wouldn't. No, they wouldn't >> wouldn't do that. They'd be like, "Well,
00:49:32
it's our journalistic integrity, so we're not going to go against it." >> Exactly.
00:49:36
>> Now, setting aside the fact that Storin's note never explicitly apologizes for publishing what was
00:49:42
ultimately determined to be false and potentially slanderous information. I had a feeling
00:49:47
>> it was false, every course it was, which I know you knew that whole time cuz I
00:49:51
made it pretty clear. >> Yeah. Um, but it's pretty problem problematic because just one day after
00:49:56
the article was published, law enforcement officials announced the identity of their primary suspect.
00:50:02
>> Oh, and he was far from the enraged, jealous husband the press had described.
00:50:07
>> Okay. >> So, it's like not only did you publish something without verifying that
00:50:11
information cuz it's like, yeah, I know you said that you feel like you could trust this person and that they had
00:50:16
intimate knowledge. That's a pretty big thing to throw out there. Yeah, you got to be sure. And especially when
00:50:23
obviously they had a completely different suspect that it on your face. >> Yeah. It's like now it looks real bad.
00:50:30
>> Now you don't look great. >> Yeah. Maybe uh don't use that source again. >> Yeah. Like don't be using that source
00:50:35
and it's not good. >> So a lot of people thought that maybe the confusion over the investigation on
00:50:41
the part of the press came from the silence from the investigators. Um, but in defense of that silence, Attorney
00:50:48
General Philip Mclofflin told a reporter, "We've chosen to take this route in response to mistakes other
00:50:53
agencies have made that became a detriment." Yeah. >> So, they were seeing what was happening
00:50:57
in other cases, and they were trying to make adjustments to make sure they did not make the same mistakes,
00:51:02
>> which is good. >> Ironically, the silence they had hoped would protect the integrity of the case
00:51:08
led to more confusion, >> but that wasn't on them. in the generation of countless false leads and
00:51:12
useless tips from the public. All of which were just wasting a significant amount of time,
00:51:17
>> right? [Music] Well, a certain amount of transparency would have gone a long way with the
00:51:35
public at this point, just a little bit. But the thing is, there really wasn't a
00:51:39
lot to tell at this point. Within a week or two of the murders, the hunt for the
00:51:45
owner of the SOG knives had produced a suspect. >> So, they were again a week or two since
00:51:52
the murders have happened, they already have a suspect. So, those two weeks, they couldn't give anything because it's
00:51:58
like they're in the thick of it. Clearly, they were gathering a lot and really working. And if they had released
00:52:04
any of that, it could have shot that right off track. And it's like they worked quick and they worked hard
00:52:11
out. >> So investigators clearly did spend considerable time digging into the victim's backgrounds hoping to find the
00:52:18
killer's name there. But in the end, it was the evidence that led them to solve this case. It wasn't the background.
00:52:23
>> Okay. On the afternoon of February 15th, roughly 2 weeks into the search for the
00:52:28
seller of SOG knives, detectives Chuck West finally got the break he was looking. He found a seller in Vermont
00:52:35
who identified the knives as coming from his store. >> I had a feeling that was where it was
00:52:40
going to come from just because there were so few sold at this point, like they were very recently starting to
00:52:45
sell. >> Yeah. A few hours after Wes got confirmation, he received a call from the sheriff's office in Chelsea,
00:52:51
Vermont, a small town just across the border from Hanover. And the information he had was a [ __ ] bombshell.
00:52:59
According to Captain Arnold Kovi, the suspect New Hampshire investigators had been hunting for nearly a month was an I
00:53:06
an iate husband or a murderous home invader, but a teenage boy. >> A teenager. >> A teenage boy.
00:53:13
>> So, a student. >> A teenage boy. Kovi added that as far as he knew 16year-old.
00:53:23
>> What? >> Jim Parker. Yeah. 16. >> Aren't they They're college professors, aren't they?
00:53:30
>> Yeah. >> So what? >> Yep. >> Hello. >> He wasn't one of the local troublemakers
00:53:34
and in fact had never been in trouble with the law >> 16 >> or at school. He was never in trouble.
00:53:40
>> So he seemed a unlikely suspect at first. >> Yeah. But the knife belonged to Parker.
00:53:45
Okay, >> so Chuck West got in his car and headed out to Chelsea to speak with the boy and
00:53:50
his parents because he's a [ __ ] child. >> When sheriff's state troopers Robert
00:53:55
Bruno and Russ Hubard showed up at the Parker's house that afternoon, John Parker was uh surprised to say the
00:54:01
least. John, he said Jim had never been in any trouble before, so it came as a shock to
00:54:08
his parents when they heard the troopers were there to talk about a double homicide in New Hampshire. That would be
00:54:14
shocking. >> Parker invited them into his kitchen. John, who is obviously his father,
00:54:19
>> um, and Jim was sitting at the table, but he hadn't yet been introduced. And Robert Bruno immediately suspected the
00:54:25
boy at the table was their suspect without even being introduced, >> just like with the body language or
00:54:30
something, like the vibe in the room. >> Well, he said not only did he seem particularly interested in their
00:54:35
presence, but he also could barely contain his anxiety as soon as he saw the trooper.
00:54:41
>> Huh. Later, Bruno would remember the way the veins in Jim's neck pulsed violently.
00:54:46
>> What? >> Reminding him of the movie Alien, he said. It was that pronounced. >> Wow.
00:54:52
>> According to Jim, he and his best friend, Robert Tullik, had purchased the knives online and had intended to use
00:54:58
them for camping and to build a fort, but they were too large and too uncomfortable to carry. Jim claimed that
00:55:04
one day in early January, the two drove out to Burlington where they planned to sell the knives at the RV Army Navy
00:55:11
store, but a customer outside the store offered them more money than the store would, so they sold them to an anonymous
00:55:17
buyer. Doubt it. As for the Xantop murder in Etna, Jim told the troopers he hadn't heard about it.
00:55:24
>> H, which I'm like, >> which it's also like >> I was there for that, man. >> You're like, I live in Massachusetts and
00:55:29
I knew about it. So the more Bruno and Hubard went over the story with Jim and his father, they began to notice small
00:55:36
inconsistencies and changes in the details. Still, both men found it nearly impossible to believe that a [ __ ]
00:55:43
teenager could have caused the amount of absolute [ __ ] chaos and havoc in the Zantop house. At most, they thought Jim
00:55:50
could have been responsible for supplying the murder weapons. >> Yeah, >> but that was about where it began and
00:55:55
ended. Before leaving, the troopers asked if Jim would consent to being fingerprinted to compare his prints with
00:56:01
the ones found at the scene. And he agreed he would go to the station, and they all drove to the sheriff's
00:56:06
department. >> Okay. At the sheriff's department, Jim made his formal statement in writing,
00:56:10
adding more details about the supposed buyer than he'd given the troopers earlier now. So, all of a sudden, that
00:56:17
anonymous buyer is becoming more and more detailed. >> Yeah. He also appeared to minimize his
00:56:22
relationship with Robert Tullik, implying he was more of a casual acquaintance. >> Oh, okay.
00:56:27
>> In the interview room, >> casual acquaintance that you're going to go [ __ ] make a fort making with.
00:56:32
>> Yeah, no big deal. >> For sure. >> In the interview room, Chuck West didn't waste any time confronting him about
00:56:37
what he felt was a false statement about the knives. >> Yeah. >> The thing was, like Bruno and Hubert,
00:56:42
Wes couldn't imagine that a 16-year-old was the killer. So, we focused in on the
00:56:47
supposed buyer of the knives, thinking that maybe Jim was covering for someone else.
00:56:51
>> Yeah. Yeah. >> Eventually, Wes got around to asking Jim if he had an alibi for the day of the
00:56:55
murder, and he claimed that he worked until the afternoon. Then, he and Robert Tullik went to the movies. That was his
00:57:02
alibi. >> You got your You got your ticket stubs. >> While Wes questioned Jim Parker at the
00:57:06
sheriff's office, Bruno and Hubard went to the Tull House where they were invited inside by Robert's mother and
00:57:12
father, Diana and Mike. Like John Parker, Diane and Mike Tullk were very surprised to find their son was somehow
00:57:19
connected to a murder investigation. But the story about the knives sounded to Diane like quote another one of Jim and
00:57:25
Robert's stupid things. >> Okay. A few months earlier, Robert had asked his mother to use her credit card
00:57:30
to buy a pair of shoes. And she was furious to find that instead of shoes, he p purchased two stun master stun guns
00:57:38
from an online store. What? I'm sorry. Why is your child buying weapons? >> What? Why is your child buying stun
00:57:49
guns? >> And that's not concerning. >> She wasn't concerned. >> Like, I'd be pretty concerned.
00:57:53
>> Yeah. >> When the troopers sat down with Robert, they were surprised by how different he
00:57:59
was from his friend counterpart >> or casual acquaintance, as Jim was saying. >> Sure. Only one year older than Jim
00:58:06
Parker, Robert Tullik was far more articulate, considerate, and showed none of the signs of anxiety that Bruno had
00:58:12
noticed in Jim Parker. >> Okay. So, Robert recounted the story about buying the knives online, finding
00:58:18
them cumbersome, but he was much hazier when it came to the details. >> Uh-huh. >> According to Robert, Jim was the one who
00:58:24
handled that knife sale to the guy outside of the Army neighbor Navy store. So, he couldn't really remember anything
00:58:30
about him cuz he was like, I didn't really handle that part. >> Convenient. He was also uncertain about
00:58:34
the dates and times of the sale. >> Also convenient. >> While they were talking, Bruno noticed
00:58:38
that Robert had a bandage on his leg and asked the boy about it. >> My jaw just opened, by the way.
00:58:44
>> Robert told the troopers he and Jim were rock climbers and he cut his leg a few
00:58:48
weeks earlier on a maple tree. >> Rock climbing acquaintances. That is >> Yeah. Just casual.
00:58:53
>> Yeah. >> This was the story he'd told just about anyone else who'd asked about it, so he
00:58:58
figured it would be easily corroborated if the troopers wanted to check his story. Obviously,
00:59:03
>> Robert's story more or less matched what they had been told by Jim Parker. So,
00:59:07
the troopers saw no reason to disbelieve him. >> Okay. >> Before leaving, they asked if he would
00:59:11
be willing to go to the sheriff's office to have his fingerprints taken, and he said, "Sure."
00:59:16
>> Okay. >> They also wanted to take a look at Robert's footwear he had in the house,
00:59:19
cuz remember, >> boots. >> Yeah, boots. >> Boots. >> The boy went upstairs to his bedroom and
00:59:25
came back with a pair of Nike sneakers and a pair of Vasque hiking boots. Mhm. >> The same style, brand, and size as the
00:59:32
bloody bootprint discovered at the crime scene. >> I'm like, meanwhile, why aren't you
00:59:36
[ __ ] yourself right now? >> Yeah. The troopers asked whether they could take the boots with them, and
00:59:41
Robert agreed with the stipulation that he would eventually get them back. >> Maybe the confidence here.
00:59:47
>> Yeah. Despite the evidence pointing towards Jim and Robert as the most likely suspects, investigators still
00:59:53
could not get themselves to believe that two [ __ ] teenagers had savagely murdered the Xantos.
01:00:00
>> Not only that, >> and for why? >> Well, that's the biggest question in my mind. And the other question is how the
01:00:05
[ __ ] are they even connected? >> Yeah. So, at most they thought the boys could lead them to the real killer. Like
01:00:11
maybe they were covering for someone. So, after getting their fingerprints and taking their formal statements, they
01:00:16
were both allowed to leave with their parents. That night, after their parents went to bed, Robert and Jim each grabbed
01:00:22
a backpack and began filling it with whatever they thought would be useful. Stop.
01:00:26
>> Fishing gear, pens and pencils, a compass, and clothing. They had already talked about what would they would do if
01:00:32
the police started focusing in on them, and the time had come for them to go on the run.
01:00:36
>> Stop. >> Yep. >> What? >> Yep. Before leaving the house to meet Robert, Jim tore a piece of paper from a
01:00:44
notebook and scrolled a note to his parents that said, "I just had to talk to Robert alone. I will be back in the
01:00:49
morning. Don't call cops." >> If the evidence had already pointed towards Robert Tull and Jim Parker
01:00:58
before, the fact that they had gone on the [ __ ] run, they'd gone on the yam. >> The yam
01:01:02
>> would certainly make investigators think twice about their innocence now. >> Uhhuh. and their parents.
01:01:08
>> But that wasn't the only problem. In his haste to pack a bag and get out of the
01:01:12
house, Robert had forgotten to get the knives from their [ __ ] hiding place in the house.
01:01:17
>> If detectives found those have the knives. >> Yeah. If detectives found those, it
01:01:22
would completely destroy their alibi and conclusively link them to the murders of
01:01:26
Hoff and Susanna Hanto. >> Now, when John Parker, Jim Parker's father, >> woke to find his son gone, he
01:01:33
immediately went to the phone and called the police. >> Good. And by 11:00 a.m., a manhunt was
01:01:38
underway. In their initial statement to the press, investigators were very careful about how they frame the story,
01:01:43
conscious of how things had been misinterpreted in the past. Yet, they were clear that Robert Tullik was being
01:01:50
sought on two counts of first-degree murder in connection with the killings. By the next day, investigators had
01:01:55
matched the both of their fingerprints to those found in the Zentop house and had also matched Robert Tullik's hiking
01:02:02
boots to the bootprint left behind at the scene. >> Yep. As far as the detectives were
01:02:06
concerned, there was no question about it. Hoff and Susanna Zanto were murdered by two teenagers.
01:02:12
>> What the hell? To everyone who knew them, the news was [ __ ] shocking, if not impossible to believe. But one
01:02:19
friend told a reporter, "Dartmouth to Chelsea doesn't seem like a long ways. Jimmy Parker was the class clown of the
01:02:25
school." And another person said, "Everyone loved him." >> Wow. Like investigators just days
01:02:30
earlier said, everyone in Chelsea found it impossible to believe that these two smart, likable young men would have been
01:02:37
capable of a brutal murder, much less two brutal meters and a savage home invasion. And when it came to public
01:02:44
belief and acceptance, investigators didn't do themselves any favors because they were silent on criminal on critical
01:02:50
elements of the case. And it kind of hindered the abil the public's ability to help locate the suspects because they
01:02:56
weren't really giving anything. Yeah. >> Regardless of the silence, Robert and Jim's attempt to avoid responsibility
01:03:02
for what they did finally came to an end 3 days later. >> I'm surprised they made it that far.
01:03:07
>> Yeah. At an Indiana truck stop. >> Wow. >> Yeah, they got far. >> They did. When a call from the pair was
01:03:14
intercepted on a CB radio channel looking for a ride. >> Shut the [ __ ] up. According to the
01:03:19
press, when they were picked up by police in Indiana, the boys were quote so weary and rattled that one one gave
01:03:25
his birth date as May 40th. >> What? >> He was so tired. >> What? >> To Robert Tull, the game seemed to have
01:03:34
reached its end. After being arrested, he waved his extradition rights and was immediately transported back to New
01:03:40
Hampshire, where he was arraigned on two counts of first-degree murder. Jim Parker, though, attempted to stall his
01:03:46
extradition. Uh John Parker said of his son, "He's scared to death of the legal system. He's scared to death of things
01:03:53
most 16-year-olds in their wildest imaginations can't even fathom. But despite his efforts to stall, he was
01:03:59
extraded back to New Hampshire a few days later. >> It doesn't sound like he was scared to
01:04:03
stab the life out of somebody." >> I really don't care about scared. >> And he was arraigned on first-degree
01:04:08
murder charges as well, although it might be difficult to imagine it now. In 2001, again, like I was saying, it was a
01:04:16
different time. >> Yeah. >> The American public still struggled with accepting the belief that teenagers
01:04:21
could be capable of something so [ __ ] cruel and brutal like this murder. >> Yeah.
01:04:27
>> However, after a thorough search of the Tull turned up a wealth of new information, a clearer picture of Robert
01:04:33
Tullik was emerging. And what it suggested was that he had a personality that was a lot darker than anyone knew.
01:04:41
>> Okay. In an interview with the prosecutor's office, Jim Parker described he and his friend as quote
01:04:46
explorers, but they decided on a life of crime after concluding that every place
01:04:51
had been explored. >> I want you to really let that marinate. >> What? >> Really let that one sit.
01:05:01
>> You're not an explorer if you think every place has been explored. So, I think we should just murder people.
01:05:07
>> That's the thought process. There is nothing more to that thought process. You know what that to that a straight
01:05:13
line from we should explore places to we should brutally murder people. >> The frontal lobe is so important.
01:05:20
>> Frontal lobe is so important. >> Vital, one might say. >> It's got we got to figure out how to
01:05:26
make it grow faster. >> Or we got to keep people in boxes until it [ __ ] develops.
01:05:31
>> Yeah. >> Cuz like what the [ __ ] is that? >> I mean I think that's the whole idea of
01:05:34
like living with your parents for as long as you do. >> Stay in that box. Figure it out.
01:05:40
In his statement, Parker explained how Robert had developed a hatred for the United States, among other things, and
01:05:46
the pair concocted a convoluted and very childish plan to rob enough people to get however much money they needed to
01:05:53
leave the country and travel to Australia. This is so juvenile. It also reminds me
01:06:01
of like um what's his name's Terrible, horrible, no good, very bad day. I'm moving to Australia.
01:06:07
>> Alexander. Alexander's no good, very bad day. It's like I'm mad at everything, so
01:06:11
I'm going to Australia. What? Yeah, it that's the thing. It's such a juvenile thought process. But also like
01:06:18
absolutely diabolical >> like Australia's going to eat your ass alive. Are you kidding me?
01:06:23
>> Yeah, that's where they send convicts because they couldn't send them anywhere
01:06:25
else. >> Have you met Australia? >> Have you met Australians? They're not going to put up with your [ __ ]
01:06:29
>> Nay. >> No way. >> Nor I know my Australian listeners. You said, "Fuck that. Watch your dumb
01:06:35
asses." Right out of there, idiots. >> I can't believe like I don't like it here anymore, so I'm going to rob my way
01:06:42
to Australia. >> Yeah. >> And and the fact that two people were like, "Yep, sounds good."
01:06:48
>> Yeah. Yeah. Totally. >> Let's shake on it. >> Yep. >> So Parker said, "We assumed it would be
01:06:54
a couple and somebody might have to go somewhere else and grab the other person and bring them into the same room and if
01:06:59
there were any kids, we would have to do the same thing." >> That's nice. So they were just going to
01:07:03
like [ __ ] terrorize terrorize an entire family. >> Cool. Awesome. >> That's what they figured, you know.
01:07:09
That's what they were figuring. Good. >> Um, according to the indictment, Robert
01:07:12
and Jim had spent nearly 6 months talking about killing and on at least four occasions prior to January 2001,
01:07:19
they stopped at random houses, quote, intending to steal bank cards and leave the occupants dead. So, they were
01:07:27
planning this for a long time. >> Wow. According to the indictment as well, one of those houses was that of
01:07:32
Bob and Audrey McCullum. >> Oh wow. The next >> it was the last of those attempts on
01:07:39
January 27th, 2001 that they found the Xanto house where they murdered the two beloved professors. In the previous
01:07:48
attempts, the boys were always denied entry when they knocked on the door. Oh, >> it was only because Hoff and Susanna
01:07:55
Xanto were so [ __ ] generous >> and so kind and compassionate that they were willing to allow the two into the
01:08:02
house in the first place. They allowed them into their home >> just because of who they were and who
01:08:08
their hearts were. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> When Jim Parker was informed that the attorney general intended to try him as
01:08:14
a [ __ ] adult for what he had done because that's some adult [ __ ] that you did. play stupid games, win stupid
01:08:20
prizes, which also would make him eligible for the death penalty, which Oh, >> your dad said you were so scared of the
01:08:28
legal system. Are you scared of uh being murdered by the legal system? >> I said you're not scared to take the
01:08:34
life of of two people. So, >> play stupid games, win stupid prizes, my friend. >> Yep.
01:08:40
>> Um so, of course, he made a deal in which he plead guilty to seconddegree murder in exchange for his testifying
01:08:46
against his friend, Robert Tullik. Wow. It always happens in the end. >> Tough guy. Always happens in the end.
01:08:51
>> According to Parker, the murders and thefts were Robert's idea. >> Um, on the day of the Xantop murders,
01:08:57
uh, the boys knocked on their door pretending to be student researchers working on a project.
01:09:02
>> Oh, wow. So, they even played on his on their Yep. >> on what they would help.
01:09:07
>> Yep. >> As a professor, the roose definitely appeal appealed to Hoff Sananto and he
01:09:13
invited them into his home. However, when Xanto criticized the two, according to them, quote unquote,
01:09:20
>> yeah, for being unprepared for research, Tel became irrationally angry. So, I'm like, wait a second. So, did you
01:09:29
knock on their door to murder them and rob them, or did you knock on their door to be actual researchers? Because why
01:09:35
would you get irrationally angry? >> Make that make sense >> at that when you intended to murder them
01:09:39
anyway? >> Because he clearly has some kind of problem. When Hoff turned his back to
01:09:43
retrieve something from his desk, Tullik pulled out his SOG knife and began brutally stabbing Hoff in the chest,
01:09:49
stomach, and face. >> Wow. >> During the attack, the knife slipped. And Robert ended up cutting his own leg
01:09:55
as well. >> I hope it hurt so [ __ ] badly. >> Leaving blood on the carpet outside the
01:09:59
study. And when she heard the commotion, Susanna ran to see what was happening, which was when Tullk shouted to Parker
01:10:05
to quote slit her throat. >> Oh my god. After killing the Xantops, Robert and Jim ransacked the office,
01:10:12
ultimately stealing a few hundred dollars from Hoff's wallet before leaving. >> And then they just went home.
01:10:18
>> It was only later when they were miles away from the scene that Robert realized
01:10:21
that they had left the [ __ ] knife sheaths behind at the house. >> You [ __ ] idiot.
01:10:26
>> They're so [ __ ] stupid. They then drove back to retrieve them, but by the time they arrived at the house, the
01:10:33
police were already at the scene. >> Are you kidding? >> So, they showed back up. Are you [ __ ]
01:10:38
kidding me? >> So, they just went home. >> Yeah. Along the way, they stopped by a
01:10:43
river to wash the blood off their bodies and burn some of their clothes. >> It is maddening how just like trivial
01:10:53
that their entire plan is. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It really is. It's infuriating.
01:11:02
>> Yeah. I'm so angry right now that these two beloved professors who gave their
01:11:08
hearts to their students, sheltered people in their home, traveled the world together, had two beautiful like these
01:11:15
[ __ ] incredible people were taken off of this earth by two nimwits. >> Two bumbling [ __ ]
01:11:23
>> Road bums. Road bums. Because that actually genuinely that makes me so and I can't imagine. knocked on their door.
01:11:32
>> I can't imagine how their daughters and their friends felt when they found out
01:11:35
that it was no matter who it was. But these two [ __ ] 16-year-old peeons. >> The anger that I would I can't I'm angry
01:11:45
right now. >> I'm angry and these aren't my parents or my like friends like >> because you want to go to Australia
01:11:51
because this world, this [ __ ] nation is not enough for you. >> You had a no good, very bad day. You
01:11:56
[ __ ] loser. >> You've seen nothing yet. You're 16. You You don't even pay bills, [ __ ]
01:12:02
>> What an [ __ ] Like true [ __ ] >> I need to know what happens to them. I'm so pissed right now.
01:12:08
>> Now, along with irrefutable evidence, Parker's confession all but ruled out the possibility of an acquitt for Robert
01:12:15
Tullik. >> Good. >> Uh so in March 2002, he plead guilty to first-degree murder. The next month,
01:12:21
both of them appeared in Grafton County Superior Court for sentencing, where Tullik was sentenced to a mandatory life
01:12:27
sentence without the possibility of parole. Good. >> And Parker was sentenced to 25 years to
01:12:32
life with a minimum of 16 years before becoming eligible for parole. >> Stupid. >> Robert Tullik sat completely emotionless
01:12:39
when the sentences were read by the judge. But Parker cried way >> openly wept. You literally murdered a
01:12:46
woman. I don't want to hear it. If I was the judge, I'd be like, "Bang, bang. Get
01:12:49
it together. >> Yeah, get it together. >> No one wants to see this choice. >> Yeah.
01:12:54
>> When he was asked if there was anything he wanted to say on his on his behalf,
01:12:58
Parker said, "There's not much I can say. I'm just really sorry." There's not much you can say. Good. Spend the next
01:13:05
25 years to life figuring out what to say. >> And when they asked Robert Telic the
01:13:11
same thing, he said nothing. What a piece of [ __ ] Now, despite being held in the same prison, Jim and Robert
01:13:18
rarely interacted with one another in the prison. On April 18th, 2024, after serving 22 years of his sentence
01:13:27
in the New Hampshire State Prison for Men, Jim Parker was granted parole and was released in June of that year. Wow.
01:13:35
>> But he is required to have regular meetings with a representative from the parole office until 2098.
01:13:41
Good. In 2012, the United States Supreme Court ruled in Miller versus Alabama that mandatory life sentences for crimes
01:13:49
committed by juvenile offenders were unconstitutional, requiring states to review all rulings
01:13:55
of juveniles sentenced to life in prison. A few years later, in 2014, the New Hampshire Attorney General's office
01:14:02
announced that Tullik's case would be among those under review for potential reentencing.
01:14:07
>> I don't think this one applies. This did not necessarily require all offenders to
01:14:11
be re-sentenced. >> It just required states to consider the evidence and make a convincing argument
01:14:17
if they wanted to uphold the life sentence without parole. Tulk's case was argued back and forth for several years
01:14:23
until April of 2025 this year when the state supreme court unanimously declined to hear the case. Chinchin effectively
01:14:33
unholding upholding the sentence of life without parole. Yeah, this murder was fully planned out.
01:14:39
>> Fully like >> executed. These two people lost their lives because this [ __ ] had a
01:14:45
very good terrible no good day and wanted to go to Australia. >> Mhm. >> Good. >> I hope you're having a very terrible no-
01:14:50
good day and you long for Australia every day that you open your eyes in prison. Truly, you piece of [ __ ]
01:14:56
>> Cuz as of now, there's little to no chance Robert Tullik will ever be released from.
01:15:00
>> He doesn't deserve to be. >> No, he doesn't. And honestly, I don't think the other kid did either. No,
01:15:05
that's [ __ ] It is such a brutal case. The only thing I can say is that I hope where what's his name? Jim uh
01:15:16
Parker where he wasn't like the ring leader and obviously he's a [ __ ] follower.
01:15:20
>> Yeah. >> You hope that he figured out his [ __ ] in prison and plans to do better now that
01:15:25
he's >> on there for 22 years, I think. So, >> it's like you hope >> I hope he got it together
01:15:29
>> with the frontal lobe development. He learned how to lead and lead to do something good in life. Yeah,
01:15:35
>> but but [ __ ] Wow. I can't I had no idea how that was going to end >> and like no matter what it would have
01:15:43
been absolutely horrible. But the fact that it's two 16-year-olds who were just [ __ ] whiny, grumpy little [ __ ]
01:15:50
>> and couldn't handle life here cuz it's so [ __ ] terrible. I'm like, it wasn't
01:15:54
terrible then. It's It's pretty shitty now. >> What do you think now? >> But it's also like you're pretty [ __ ]
01:15:58
privileged. You both live at home with your parents. Yeah, >> it >> I that's infuriating.
01:16:05
>> Yeah. >> I feel so hard >> for for Susanna and for Hoff and for their kids. >> Yeah. I can't imagine having to come to
01:16:14
terms with like your parents ever being murdered, but to be murdered by two 16-year-olds who prayed on their
01:16:20
kindness like >> and their love of of knowledge and academia and >> like just willingly like welcoming these
01:16:29
two into their home. >> I am genuinely like actually so pissed off right now that that's the way that
01:16:34
ended. I never expected I was too. I was really pissed. >> Wow. >> Yeah. And there's like, you know,
01:16:42
there's like videos from like the trial where like one of them is describing the
01:16:47
whole series of events and it's just like you can't believe that this is a [ __ ] teenager
01:16:52
>> and they're just so disconnected from >> like it's wild and like Jim Parker clearly was just immature.
01:17:00
>> Yeah. >> And not just immature, but you know what I mean? He has a very immature vibe about him
01:17:06
>> and he at least has emotions about it which >> like shows kind of remorse >> makes any of it okay and Robert Tullik I
01:17:15
think just >> is clearly disturbed to be in jail forever. >> Wow. >> It's just so it's so upsetting. I remember
01:17:25
watching it unfold and being horrified by it. You also feel for like their parents too because it's like
01:17:29
>> they were your whole >> totally >> like talk about the rug being ripped out from underneath you.
01:17:34
>> Totally sidewiped by it. >> I mean they never got they didn't get in trouble with
01:17:40
>> in school. They were in trouble with the law. It's not like they that's why their
01:17:43
fingerprints didn't come up in >> and they were so beloved like in their community. It sounds like
01:17:47
>> he was a class clown. >> Yeah. Jim Parker was >> Jim Parker was a class clown.
01:17:51
>> The [ __ ] >> That's crazy. >> It shows you though. It's like >> anybody. It's so easy for someone to
01:17:58
become a very dangerous follower of a very dangerous person. >> You just can't trust people.
01:18:04
>> You got to really keep hold of your own convictions and not let other people sway it.
01:18:10
>> Wow. >> Because it's so sad. >> It really is. That is a moving ca. All cases are so moving, but that is a
01:18:17
particularly moving case. >> Yeah. >> Wow. That was I'm so angry right now. >> Yeah. Same. But with all that being
01:18:26
said, we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird. >> You know, not to keep it this weird.
01:18:33
>> Yeah. And if you don't, then just go away. Yeah. Truly. >> Not to Australia. They don't want you.
01:18:38
They don't want you. [Music] [Music] [Music]