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hey weirdos I'm Elena I'm Ash and this is morbid [Music] and it's orbit in the morning
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we've been doing a lot of morbid in the afternoon oh I liked that yeah so it was kind of
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like the song where it's like it's snowing in the afternoon you rise through the sea eyes of the
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Moon I do know that you can because you did so you do feeling so good I love the emo of it all
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it's so fun I love it one time I was gonna go to an emo night but then it got ruined
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yay yay also that was Panic at the Disco right um I think maybe but I'm doubting it now
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I think it is in the after yep your eyes are the size of the Moon you can because
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you did so you do you think so God feel it just the way that you shod shod when it's nine in the afternoon but no it's
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the morning here we are it's like nine in the morning oh damn it it's not anymore it's not but it would have been
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great if it was a mahjong we should just say it is because I don't know why this
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comes out but it'll be nine and then it'll be a nine in the afternoon somewhere Thursday like two weeks for me
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I think I do no I will never understand it it's I feel like those the uh the like door guards and Labyrinth when he's
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like I don't know I never understood it that's literally my permanent state of being yeah honestly saying that was also
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a really good impression thank you I'm like holding in a little bit of a mouth noise right now I just had some
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Alka-Seltzer Ash is feeling a little heart heart burning oh you turned 27 and then you just die it all goes to hell
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honestly I woke up early and I got on my treadmill action this morning but then that moved things around and moves it
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all around it makes it burn yeah and then I had like a nice like health breakfast but then I did see that you
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had mini muffins for your children and I said ooh I happen to be one of those children so I ate a little mini muffin
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and you would have thought that I ate a blazing bowl of fire you would have thought but now I had Alka-Seltzer so I
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feel Alka-Seltzer for me works like right away that's good did you have you you've had heartburn right um I had it
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when I was pregnant a little bit can you have Alka-Seltzer when you're pregnant I'm pretty sure you can I just did Tums
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oh see Tums is it like redoes oh yeah it's it's a it's a solid thing yeah but it's it wasn't bad enough when I was
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pregnant that I think it bothered me I think I also ate bread and it helped eating bread does help any excuse to eat
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bread really yeah may I please have bed but yeah here we are here we go um yeah I have a really sad case today
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obviously because you know you're listening to morbid yeah that's what you came for that's what you came for uh
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this one is crazy and I I don't want to like give too much away so I'm just gonna kind of do like a cold start if
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that's cool with you I'm fine with that all right so we're gonna be talking about the murder of Michelle Knight
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Rider today okay um and she was previously Michelle Landy and she met her husband Lloyd Knight
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Rider in 18 nope in 1980. oh I was like this is an old one yeah only you do this
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yeah they met in 1989 okay which you know that's old-timey I guess all right no I'm just kidding yeah right but they
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met when they were both in high school she was 18 and she was in her senior year and Lloyd was two years younger and
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they became friends over time and then when Michelle graduated and she had her grad party that's when her parents
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remembered meeting Lloyd for the first time and that's kind of when he started coming around more often okay because
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after the party they started hanging out more and more and eventually really they
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began dating their relationship kind of developed pretty quickly and even though Lloyd was
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much younger like like giving their ages I feel like it's kind of more pronounced
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I was gonna say that phase in life yeah exactly but even though he was younger Michelle felt like he was easy to talk
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to he was smart and their conversations were never boring and that was something
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she really liked about him yeah which like we love a good conversationalist so after Lloyd graduated from high
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school in 1991 they did get married and then they went off to college well he went off to college the same one as
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Michelle she had already gone she was already there yes but now he went into engineering and Michelle ended up
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getting her degree in English and after college they continued on The Fast Track
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and within a year of graduating Michelle was pregnant with their first kid and then quickly got pregnant with their
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second child another daughter wow ultimately they would end up having three daughters but their second
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daughter they named Carrie after Michelle's sister oh that's really sweet it's adorable why didn't Elena name one
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of the children Ashley sorry so the family moved to a pretty big farmhouse in Corning in Upstate New York
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Lloyd got a job working as an engineer with Corning and cooperated good job good job now the move kind of seemed
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like a step in the right direction for the family but also at the same time the stress of moving and kind of like
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starting a new job and everything so started to bring out some of Lloyd's you could say less attractive character
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traits oh Michelle's Mother Genie had seen some of those qualities all along though she
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told reporters he was arrogant from the beginning oh yeah she never really liked
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Laura she wasn't into it she wasn't into it and she also was just like I don't really understand like what my daughter
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sees in this guy which that's never good no but because she and her husband really respected their daughter they
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kept their thoughts to themselves and the thing was they weren't the only people who felt like this so it wasn't
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like well their standards are just yeah it was no other people felt this way too
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Michelle's sister Carrie the one that her daughter was named after she started noticing things about Lloyd that made
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her a little bit nervous like he had very very high very unreasonable expectations of his family she said he
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would snap his fingers and they'd line up and they would stand there like little soldiers
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I feel have you ever seen a family like that yeah and you're like oh yeah and you're just like I don't know about this
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like that makes me nervous yeah yeah because that's not that to me like this the way it's being described here and
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I'm just saying it's just my opinion that this feels more like um fear-based and not respect base yes kind of thing
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like it's not just respect I want to listen to what you have to say it's like I'm scared not to and I would know I
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don't want my kids to be no you don't want to be scared of you I actually remember one of my first business
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classes I had this wicked good professor I forget his name though but he said um he was talking about like being in a
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position of power and he was like had a whole discussion with us of would you rather be feared or respected and a lot
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of people thought that you had to be feared to be respected and I was like no I don't think so that's it's not respect
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that comes out of fear it's just fear those are very two very different things in my opinion exactly but to people a
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little more removed like in the outside world Lloyd actually seemed like he was a doting father to them the people who
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were removed they saw the dad that you know brought his kids to ballet class made sure they're they were all put
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together you know but the cracks would be apparent to anybody who was paying close enough attention to see them a
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family friend Mina Raj remembered there were times when I'd call my mom and tell
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her that I was worried about or that I was worried about how strict of a disciplinarian he was it was sort of
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like you never knew when he would snap and if he decided he was mad at one of them he would call them over yell front
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and center oh come on like a little babes dude you're not this isn't the Army I think you're in like Full Metal Jacket
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like get out of here it's too much so by the early to mid-2000s the Night Riders facade of a happy family was
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definitely starting to slip Lloyd was still working at Corning but his job was about to make some Cuts because this was
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right around the time like of the market crash yeah so the economy was suffering
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and he probably kind of resented the fact that while his career was getting a little rock here Michelle's career had
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actually taken off oh because once all three girls were in school Michelle decided that she wanted to go back to
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school and pursue a graduate degree wow and actually eventually she took a job teaching English at one of the local
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colleges and then a few years after that she had this blog called the professional family manager oh and her
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blog was gaining popularity and took off oh wow it actually got nominated for a national award from Nickelodeon oh wow
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yeah isn't that crazy so she was doing really really well yeah and her success only seemed to add to the difficulty
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between her and Lloyd oh is he one of those that can't handle it that's the thing it's like I feel like it's your
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partner isn't celebrating your success with you that's a problem something's wrong that's a big problem in my opinion
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yeah because I can't imagine coming home to Drew and like telling him something exciting that happened and him being
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like like annoying or like yeah being like annoyed by that yeah no that's not good like you should be able to
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celebrate each other when you when one of you Rises you should be celebrating exactly but that was not the case here
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Michelle's mom said that Lloyd would quote often put her down with a smile on his face
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yeah so I do not like Lloyd none of us do now if Michelle's parents were concerned which it very much sounds like
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they were they must have been really really worried when Michelle slowly started cutting them out she was kind of
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backing away from them and by 2007 her relationship with them was non-existent oh no so the Mom figured that you know
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Lloyd probably had something to do with the daughter cutting ties with the family but of course she couldn't really
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know for sure yeah in 2020 she told CBS News I think that he threatened her either to harm the children or to harm
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her jeez and Michelle's friend Cynthia Raj would later confirm that Genie's suspicions of Lloyd were actually spot
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on she reiterated a conversation that she had with Michelle where Michelle told her it was Lloyd that made me cut
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off contact with them and then Cynthia elaborated he didn't want her to have a place to go if she wanted to leave oh my
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God this guy is really bad control control oh so in 2008 he did end up losing his job at Corning and a few
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months later he ended up getting a different job offer from a company over in New Jersey so if he took that job it
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would meant it would mean that they would have a lot more time apart which would be good which would be good which
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is sad because usually when you have the salad family yeah the dynamic is like no
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we don't want mom or dad to take this job yeah and like be away from us but this is like no go kind of seemed that
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way now so the separation to Michelle she was like I think this is a good idea and I think she was kind of just
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desperate for Time by herself to thrive because yeah she was thriving but she was probably quietly thriving exactly
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and being tampered down all the time so it's like yeah like not wanting to piss him off yeah so I think she was like you
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know what [ __ ] go for it so he took the job and the separation kind of proved itself to be something Lloyd
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wanted to make permanent after years of being separated in 2013 he ended up filing for divorce wow I didn't see that
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coming that's the thing I don't think a lot of people saw that coming I think they figured you know maybe Michelle
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will get to that point eventually that's the thing I would have saw that but nobody saw it coming from Lloyd
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especially not Michelle she obviously knew that their marriage wasn't the happiest marriage in the world yeah but
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she was shocked and her attorney uh Susan bets Jita beer said I know I put a little phonetic in there for myself
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she said Michelle was surprised that he had filed for divorce she had done everything she thought she could to do
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to make him happy and the family happy which is sad that is so sad but apparently in the years that he and
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Michelle spent away from one another Lloyd decided he really didn't have a lot of use for her anymore but what he
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did want was Soul custody of their three daughters and Michelle's attorney explained just
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how determined he was to get what he wanted this is insane the attorney said Lloyd was relentless in using the legal
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system to harass Michelle it just never ended there were 26 separate sets of filings post-divorce are you kidding me
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26. what isn't that insane wow so obviously during and after the divorce things became very bitter between them
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but things were more contentious than usual with these like court dates going back and forth yeah and in his court
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filings Lloyd accused Michelle of anything and everything he thought would get him full custody especially because
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he didn't want to pay child support because he was in a lot of debt oh my God now Michelle on the other hand she
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accused him of trying to turn their kids against her so not long after the divorce she ended up selling their
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Farmhouse the family house that they lived in together and she moved into a smaller house and still in the same town
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of Corning okay and their their oldest daughter actually ended up moving to New New Jersey to live with Lloyd and Carrie
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and then the youngest daughter stayed with Michelle okay so Michelle has the middle child and the youngest child and
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Lloyd has the oldest child okay so the divorce and the fighting between Michelle and Lloyd obviously took a
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heavy toll on all of their kids all of these girls are like old enough to know what's going on of course and no matter
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what like even if they're not like our bodies pick up on that you know yeah but everything seemed to show and carry the
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most of all the middle child she was in her junior year of high school when her parents divorced so she was at the age
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where kids usually distance themselves from their parents anyway but now she seemed to be avoiding her mom even more
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than usual a family friend Rose coluccio I think is how you say it she said of their relationship it got more strained
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as she approached her senior year eek yeah so by mid-2017 after just years and years and years of bitter custody fights
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harassment abuse the whole nine Michelle was shocked when she had a court date with Lloyd and he was supposed to show
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up and this court date was going to be addressing custody of their youngest daughter and he just didn't show up
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what and she was like we've been doing this for like years like oh it sounds like almost 10 years like how are you
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not they they divorced in 2013 now it's 2017. that's four years four years of this stuff and then all of a sudden he
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just doesn't show up like what so weird so she texted her lawyer saying I'm in shock Lloyd did not show up for the
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appearance for his petition for sole custody he did not withdraw he did not ask for an adjournment he did not answer
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the court's phone calls emails nothing huh it seems like after all those years he had just given up and walked away but
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Michelle's attorney was like freaked out by yeah she was like something's not right you don't fight that long and then
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just give up no no and the attorney said it was very unusual it was Unthinkable really yeah that would concern me a lot
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me too now since he didn't show up the case obviously was dismissed which left the youngest daughter in Michelle's
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custody so Michelle was relieved that this you know seemed to mean that they were putting their worst years behind
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them but at the same time she knew who she was dealing with yeah Lloyd's not gonna let this go no she knew that he
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wasn't the type to back down until he got literally everything he thought he was owed so what I think is that she
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probably was relieved and kind of trying to put the worry in the back of her mind
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and just celebrate a small win yeah you know so by the summer of 2017 Carrie was a
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sophomore at the Rochester Institute of Technology and she was living off campus
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so that meant the youngest daughter was the only one still home with Michelle now on the afternoon of August 28 2017 a
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family friend came by the house to pick up that youngest daughter for swim practice okay and almost immediately
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this friend got the feeling that something was very wrong he knocked on the door to let Michelle and her
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daughter know that he was there but nobody was coming to answer but even though through the window he saw what
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looked like an adult standing in the stairway huh and the thing was Michelle and her daughter like either one of them
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usually came to the door pretty quickly so the fact that somebody was just standing there on the stairs completely
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motionless and like not moving and coming to the door or anything yeah was alarming
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so he was freaked out and he was like I feel like I should call 9-1-1 like I don't know what's going on yeah so he
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did call 9-1-1 he said got something strange happening at our friend's house I thought I saw the mother standing in
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the stairway but she's motionless oh that's weird very weird so the Cornish police Sergeant John mcdivitt he was the
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first to arrive at the scene and he also looked through the little pane of glass
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in the front door and he could see what the family friend had described to 9-1-1
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he said I could see a female laying at the bottom of the stairs and he also said he felt like something wasn't quite
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right there well yeah if somebody's laying at the bottom of the stairs that's probably not great
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definitely not good so he entered the house and he was immediately greeted by the family dog who came running when the
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door was open but when mcdivin announced his presence nobody answered and the figure at the bottom of the stairs did
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not move oh yeah he said as I got closer I could see there was a rope around her
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neck there was no pulse she was cold and stiff to them oh my God it was Michelle
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oh now as far as he could tell in that moment it looked like Michelle Knight Rider had hanged herself from a rope
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tied to the banister at the top of the stairs oh my God but more importantly in that moment at least was the fact that
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her daughter was supposed to be home the 14 year old daughter but now she was nowhere to be found oh no so they're
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freaking out yeah so they quickly searched the house there's no child in sight there's also no suicide note which
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they thought was bizarre so while crime scene technicians process the scene at the house the police began a search in
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the area for the youngest Knight Rider Girl now after a few hours had gone by investigators got a call from Carrie the
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middle daughter and she said she just heard the news about her mom and she wanted to let authorities know that
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actually she had her younger sister and the younger sister was with her in Rochester okay almost a hundred miles
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away from Corning okay and this family friend remember is picking up the youngest daughter for
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swim practice yes so that's pretty much what investigators asked and through tears Carrie explained
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why she had her sister according to her she had gone home to Corning on the afternoon of the 28th she wanted to
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spend one last night with her mom before her semester started she told detectives
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when I got there my mom started freaking out and she said her mom was quote unquote
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raged at her because she felt like Carrie was taking Lloyd's side in the custody hearings okay so Carrie
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explained that as the argument went on and on her mom was getting more and more irrational she said she started freaking
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out and screaming and she woke my she woke my little sister up so I guess eventually the fight
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escalated to the point where out of concern for the younger daughter Carrie said she took her out of the house and
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they went back to Rochester for the night okay so you know de-escalating the situation
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it's all sad you know so sad exactly so investigators are hearing this and they're like okay okay and at first
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glance Michelle's death kind of appeared to investigators like it really could just be suicide but friends and family
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were like there's no way like they vehemently disagreed with that for one thing putting the problems with Lloyd to
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the side for a second Michelle's personal life and her career were going extremely extremely well her friend
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Cynthia said she had a great job and it was not the place in her life where she would have committed suicide after all
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the really difficult years she'd been through and then her divorce divorce lawyer agreed and said I never believed
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it she was determined to have a successful life and she did that's that's why it was so shocking to me when
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you said that I was like what yeah it seems like nothing here I mean not that we I have a full picture of her every
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day today but it's like seemed very sudden and out of nowhere right especially when realistically she would
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be celebrating the fact that after all these years of fighting that he had given up he'd given exactly you know I'm
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sure she knew he hadn't and that is like a factor there that it's like did you know that it was something else
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something awful was gonna come from this like he wasn't gonna let it lie right but the timing just seemed weird well
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and it doesn't seem like like it seems like she would fight for her daughters yeah and she's like she wouldn't just
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give up like that either right exactly you know exactly so the and that's the thing other people who knew Michelle
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went a step further and they said Not only did they think that Michelle would not have ended her own life but that if
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it was murder they needed to look at Lloyd yeah they were like before you sign that dotted line and decide like
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how she went out of here to look at Lloyds yeah I'm glad they said that that was like everybody was like oh yeah like
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no yeah and that same uh family friend that I mentioned earlier Rose coluccio I want to say it is she told Dateline when
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asked at the scene what I thought my answer was I think he did it wow so that tells you something that's the thing
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when people are just off the bat like I don't know anyone in my life and I feel very lucky that I don't know anyone in
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my life that if they went they suddenly died that I would be like you gotta look
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at this person like I don't know anyone like that no me either and it's like so if I knew somebody that the first
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thought in my mind was it's probably them right that it's probably them and imagine having that level of concern for
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like a family friend or like a relative like that's awful and then to see it like this and be like it ended how I was
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worried it was gonna end right that I can't imagine so that here's the thing obviously these
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were Michelle's friends and family speaking and obviously it's common for those people to be shocked when their
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friend or loved one maybe takes their own life absolutely and it's also pretty common that they would reject the idea
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entirely of course no they would never be the person to do that or you know because it usually does come seemingly
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out of nowhere to everyone like around you you know like it's not always very obvious but in this case it wasn't just
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the shock of unexpectedly losing Michelle there was as we all know at this point a very long history of
00:23:02
domestic abuse and violence in the family yep that friends and family were well aware of and very worried about
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yeah in fact when uh Genie made it to Corning that's Michelle's Mother after her daughter's death and she started
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going through Michelle's personal things she started to get an even clearer picture of how dysfunctional Michelle
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and Lloyd's marriage had been she said I started finding court documents and I started finding screenshots of tech she
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was just constantly abused emotionally abused that's so sad it is now when that was brought to the attention of the
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investigators looking into Michelle's death coupled with some bizarre findings in the autopsy they were starting to
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think that maybe her friends and family could be onto something here because she might have been found in a
00:23:50
manner that indicated suicide but what struck the coroner as very strange was when he discovered a U-shaped Mark
00:23:56
around her chin that suicide by hanging just couldn't account for because the the mark on her chin
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actually unsettled the police chief Jeff Spalding so much that he didn't want the
00:24:08
label on the death to be suicide I was worried that it was going to be written as suicide and
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something about this was telling him that it wasn't oh geez he said it appeared as though somebody had gone
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behind and thrown a rope over the neck and pulled back and down causing the mark oh my God yeah and he said he hoped
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that the autopsy would confirm their suspicions but unfortunately when the results came back the cause of death was
00:24:35
listed as undecided undetermined causation so now they had to go back to the drawing board and once there there was
00:24:44
Carrie's Story to consider next to the evidence she said that her and her mom had gotten
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into this big fight the night that she died and she claimed it was because Michelle thought that Carrie was
00:24:56
supporting her father over her now investigators realized you know of course it's possible that Michelle was
00:25:01
upset about this but again Lloyd had just failed to show up to the court and the case was dismissed so it kind of
00:25:09
seemed like this huge stressor in her life was resolved yeah and under those circumstances it didn't really seem like
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she'd be enraged at Carrie at that point like to get in such a big fight over this no it doesn't it doesn't add up no
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and they also were like I don't really think she would be super hopeless about the situation either so now they were
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leaning more toward the possibility that Michelle was murdered and even though the evidence was very very
00:25:35
circumstantial at that point it did strongly suggest that her ex-husband Lloyd was worth looking into
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but there was a problem with the theory that he had something to do with it he had a pretty strong Alibi when police
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discovered Michelle's body he was nearly 3 000 miles away at a job interview in California
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oh however with that being said he had been in New York around the time that Michelle had been killed oh he just got
00:26:06
into work after got to California after that so he just got there quick uh-huh okay real quick according to Carrie her
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father had helped her move into her new apartment on August 26th and then he stayed in a hotel room that night and
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left for California on the 27th and had been there ever since okay but actually when investigators called to tell him
00:26:27
about Michelle he was still in California and once he was informed that she had died he flew right back to New
00:26:33
York huh and the first thing he did was go to the uh I think it's Steuben County
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Family Court to quote turn off his child support and maintenance payments yeah you got to do that real quick it
00:26:44
was the first thing he did it's like do you want to check in with any of your children yeah like their mother was just
00:26:50
I mean just died yeah like what no now as he was leaving that Courthouse that day he ran into Corning police
00:26:58
detective James Volpe and James was like Hey like you want to chat and weirdly Lloyd seemed pretty eager to talk about
00:27:05
Michelle's death really they sat down in detective volpe's car for what turned out to be a actually pretty lengthy
00:27:12
interview and Lloyd he gave the same Alibi that his daughter had given them a couple days earlier and he you know went
00:27:19
on to say that he checked into the motel after helping Carrie move he said they had dinner together and after Carrie
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left he went to bed and then he said the next morning he met Carrie and his younger daughter around 7 A.M for
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breakfast then he left the hotel and was off to California okay so Volpe was like
00:27:36
okay and then they went back to the station and he decided to check into that even
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further I'm glad and data from his cell phone actually seemed to corroborate the
00:27:45
story that he had told investigators and Carrie had told investigators but the security footage from the hotel
00:27:52
told a very different story oh when investigators looked at the foot darn cameras those freaking cameras every
00:27:59
time it's like Jesus Christ people look around yeah I mean or don't I don't honestly but so they looked at the
00:28:06
footage and they saw Carrie and Lloyd get to the hotel the evening after she moved into her apartment but when he
00:28:13
walks her to her car later that night he can clearly be seen getting into the car
00:28:18
and leaving with her when he said he went to bed and then they met up for breakfast the next morning guy nope come
00:28:25
on and then he didn't appear on camera again until the next morning and that was when he was supposed to be getting
00:28:31
breakfast with his kids and the police chief there Jeff Spalding pointed out he still appears to be wearing the same
00:28:36
clothes that he had on the night before Lloyd's story was that he stayed at the hotel room all night the video evidence
00:28:42
is saying no he didn't the video evidence is saying no that is incorrect so now the police had evidence that he
00:28:51
lied to them about his Alibi and they were like well [ __ ] maybe he really did have something to do with yes after all
00:28:57
so combined with the physical evidence documented during the autopsy everything investigators were learning about Lloyd
00:29:03
indicated that yeah he probably had something to do with this yeah but they had to identify his motive uh which was
00:29:11
pretty easy yeah the District Attorney's office did some digging and they found out that he was quote not in a good
00:29:17
Financial Place hmm according to Baker Lloyd had over a hundred thousand dollars in credit card debt oh damn and
00:29:26
he was paying his wife almost six thousand dollars a month wow like child support Yeah a hundred thousand dollars
00:29:33
credit card debt like how do you that much credit card debt yeah that's a lot 100 how do they even let you spend that
00:29:42
much I was gonna say I didn't even get that bad you had it had to have been across like multiple it always had to
00:29:47
have been yeah oh my God I remember the first credit card I got when I was like 18. I [ __ ] maxed it out at like I
00:29:53
think it was probably like three thousand dollars and it took me years a hundred thousand like you'd done I
00:30:03
also was like damn what was your credit score because mine was really bad it's like a 200. let's see oh my God that
00:30:09
makes me nauseous oh but that wasn't it Baker was also who worked for the daa's office was also able to find out that
00:30:18
Lloyd had already tried to collect Michelle's 260 000 life insurance policy which clearly
00:30:26
would have taken care of his debt I am so glad that these idiots are so [ __ ] stupid me too thank goodness because
00:30:35
like two are you [ __ ] kidding me my guy dude this is this is like Jesus right out there like you have this much
00:30:44
debt you already tried to first of all you immediately shut off all the payments why did you think that you were
00:30:50
gonna get her [ __ ] life insurance you've been divorced for four years like what
00:30:54
um but based on what they've learned so far the District Attorney's office they believed that Lloyd killed Michelle
00:31:02
and Carrie had either helped him or was helping him cover it up shut up yeah they thought she had something to do
00:31:09
with it mm-hmm [ __ ] they couldn't prove it quite yet but they were like the way
00:31:14
that she was covering for him they were like she either knows something about this or she participated oh no oh oh no
00:31:22
I hate that yeah oh man so now they had a Suspect with the means the motive and the opportunity to commit Michelle's
00:31:30
murder now investigators were they were able to get a warrant and they put wiretaps on Lloyd and Carrie's phones to
00:31:37
monitor those conversations but it was November 2017 when they started monitoring those conversations and by
00:31:45
that point almost two months had gone by since Michelle had been killed so Carrie
00:31:50
and Lloyd weren't really talking about Michelle that much anymore yeah thank God I'm like damn that was your whole
00:31:55
ass mom but yeah like wow apparently they got what they needed out of the situation yeah so Jeff Spalding police
00:32:02
chief said in order to kind of refresh things we did what was called tickle the wire that's precious which I [ __ ]
00:32:09
love tickle the wire tickle The Wire know that was a term nor did I apparently it's a tactic that police
00:32:14
will use to make criminals think that they're under like super intense scrutiny so it makes them talk about
00:32:20
their crime more because they're like freaked out exactly so what they did was uh in late November they had detective
00:32:26
Volpe there called Carrie and imply because you yeah that's pretty [ __ ] smart right they were like we found some
00:32:34
new information and we're gonna need to talk to you like you're gonna have to come down so Carrie took the bait and as
00:32:40
soon as she got off with the detective she called her dad and let him know that they were calling her back in and Lloyd
00:32:46
was like it's probably just a formality like there's nothing to worry about but he still told her quote I don't think I
00:32:53
want you talking to them and then he went on to tell Carrie that she needed to put the police off as long
00:32:59
as possible he said tell them I'm sorry I got a counseling appointment back in New
00:33:04
Jersey tonight and like told her to make it seem like she was really going through it that's awful and then asked
00:33:10
her could you cry and she said I might wow yeah so that was pretty incriminating
00:33:18
this is some cold [ __ ] cold from her ex-husband and her daughter yeah like there this is a daughter talking to
00:33:27
her father about her mom yeah it sure is and he's like can you cry like manipulating her and they're like [ __ ]
00:33:33
and that's the thing she's like a [ __ ] teenager it's in this is a father this is manipulating their child
00:33:41
wait until you hear what like this isn't really just this is cold this guy this is Sinister this guy this given some
00:33:48
very Sinister this guy is the scum of the earth yeah truly and apparently well we'll get there okay
00:33:58
so the conversation between Carrie and Lloyd very much confirmed investigator suspicions but at the same time it
00:34:06
wasn't it wasn't completely incriminating it was Sinister Vibes but it was that's what they said it was a
00:34:12
Sinister they were like it's giving Sinister by button but they honestly didn't say
00:34:19
anything like wow I can't believe we got away with this because you know like it
00:34:24
wasn't right right it was right out there just anybody looking at it would be like yeah exactly but you can't just
00:34:30
go off of yeah you can't go off of a Vibe no unfortunately you can't I go off of a
00:34:37
Vibe all the time but I think like when it comes to the law they have this whole
00:34:41
thing against them yeah that's the thing you but everybody listening live your life off Vibes if you want to oh please
00:34:47
do Good Vibes only please but Chill Vibes only but yeah legally we cannot yeah no
00:34:54
um and the other thing is legally you cannot get a search warrant off of Vibes yeah you can't so one of the biggest
00:35:01
problems that the District Attorney's office was facing was the undetermined cause of death on Michelle's autopsy so
00:35:08
they gathered up all the forensic evidence and all the autopsy reports and they took everything to a private
00:35:13
forensic pathologist for a second opinion unfortunately Michelle had been cremated oh no so there was no body to
00:35:22
examine damn it but this private pathologist also noted the mark on Michelle's chin and he noted that
00:35:29
particular hemorrhaging was there and was very suspicious and after looking over some more papers he looked up at
00:35:36
the detectives and the district attorney and said this is a homicide hell yeah he
00:35:41
knew he knew good job so on January 24th 2018 five months after Michelle had been
00:35:47
murdered investigators visited Lloyd at his office in New Jersey and another set
00:35:52
of officers went to see Carrie at her apartment in Rochester the one that her dad had quote unquote helped her move
00:35:58
into hmm so confronted with all the evidence that they had at this point Lloyd still maintained but he was at his
00:36:04
hotel in Rochester all night and he said I'll take a polygraph test I'll take one
00:36:08
right now like let's go cool so they weren't very surprised by his confidence because they knew between the
00:36:15
two of them if somebody was going to crack it was going to be Carrie of course she's a child and they were right
00:36:20
yeah once Carrie was brought into the police station for questioning she told them everything which tells you she that
00:36:29
she did not want a part of this exactly like she had done her whole life it sounds she snapped to attention front
00:36:36
and center when he told her to exactly because she was scared of him and wanted to make her happy to avoid that's
00:36:44
whatever what happened if he wasn't happy this isn't a grown ass adult this is a child who's being manipulated by
00:36:49
their parents exactly it's really sad against their other parent which is some of the worst kind of manipulation you
00:36:55
can imagine one wait until you hear like how he manipulated her to do this it's terrible I can't imagine being in the
00:37:01
position that Carrie was in so according to Carrie she and her father returned to
00:37:06
Corning after they did move into her apartment that afternoon and she let her father in the house
00:37:12
and Michelle was standing at the top of the stairs when they walked in into Michelle's house yeah and as soon as
00:37:17
Michelle saw Lloyd she started yelling and was like why the [ __ ] are you here yeah so they started arguing
00:37:23
and they eventually made made it to Michelle's bedroom to argue privately and that's where the shouting continued
00:37:30
Kerry said suddenly everything went silent and at first she told detective she didn't know why her mom had suddenly
00:37:37
gone silent but eventually she admitted it was because her mom was dead so she told investigators she saw her
00:37:44
mom dead laying on the bedroom floor so he just killed her in their bedroom in her bedroom yep while their child's
00:37:52
children children oh God because the younger one the 14 year old was there yep exactly oh she
00:37:59
had no idea what was going on so Carrie knew that was why her dad was in the house in the first place because
00:38:06
he had actually come to her a week before this and told her that he couldn't afford the monthly support that
00:38:12
he had to pay Michelle and he was in so much debt that the only way he saw out was killing himself he's a [ __ ]
00:38:18
monster you can't handle it dude figure the [ __ ] out your kids should have nothing to do with your child support
00:38:24
payments you go to your child and say I can't afford to pay for you so I'm I'm gonna kick it yeah what the [ __ ] no
00:38:33
anybody who goes to their kids and talks about custody issues and [ __ ] and like
00:38:37
child support that's an [ __ ] move like what the [ __ ] that's a piece of [ __ ] move and so knowing that Carrie's
00:38:44
relationship with her mom was really strained at that point he knew what he was doing he knew Carrie would choose
00:38:50
him over the mom over Michelle so he casually suggested an alternative plan he said well we could also Kill Your
00:38:56
Mother Jesus and he said all his financial issues would be solved so she literally
00:39:02
sat there carrying the detective's interview room and said I had to choose I'm horrified she was faced with that
00:39:10
decision and what these children 19 years old imagine what they dealt with as little
00:39:15
kids no because if your father comes to you and is like hey either I'm gonna kill myself LOL I'm not really actually
00:39:20
gonna do that I never had any intention why don't we just kill your mom but we could kill your mom because I can't
00:39:25
afford the child support for you like what like what's gross it's I can't it's like your
00:39:36
brain can't even come up with that on its own so Carrie went on to explain the rest of the night telling investigators
00:39:41
that Lloyd and Michelle's arguing eventually woke up her younger sister who was at the house the 14 year old so
00:39:48
Carrie took her outside and put her into her car and she just told her to wait these poor kids she said that she then
00:39:54
went back inside and when she got there her mom was dead so she and her sister went back to Rochester and she said they
00:40:00
left Lloyd in Corning to Stage the scene to look like a suicide now based on the confession she was
00:40:07
arrested on second-degree murder charges for the murder of her mother yeah she knew about it ahead of time I mean and
00:40:13
she helped like we talked about it this is a father manipulating her daughter so
00:40:17
it's very [ __ ] up in every way imaginable but she played a role you you helped plan it and you were there the
00:40:24
law is pretty black and white unfortunately it's maybe fortunately it's not your responsibility to stop it
00:40:29
physically I mean this is a grown man you're a child this is your father but you call the police well and she I mean
00:40:34
she let him in the house that's the thing like this wasn't even the house that he had shared with Michelle this
00:40:40
was the house that Michelle had gotten on her own and it's the it's the sad reality that it's like you had a chance
00:40:45
to stop it you could have called the police it's it's awful so with Carrie's confession on the record investigators
00:40:52
had everything they needed to arrest you right now but they ran into a pretty big issue
00:40:57
what he never showed up for that polygraph test at the police station that he said he was going to come to
00:41:03
don't even tell me an officer's lost sight of it are you [ __ ] kidding me guys they lost sight are you kidding me
00:41:08
but luckily they were able to use data and they tracked him to a parking garage in Princeton New Jersey where he was
00:41:17
threatening to jump from the top oh [ __ ] off Lloyd like oh you just murdered a
00:41:21
whole last person and involved your daughter and now you're gonna jump you're still trying to manipulate
00:41:26
everybody's emotions get out of here we're going to get out of here so the officers in Princeton negotiated with
00:41:31
him for over two oh my God what a waste of [ __ ] time it's like just come down we know you're coming down exactly just
00:41:37
stop so uh finally in a moment when he briefly looked away an officer tackled Lloyd and placed him under arrest for
00:41:45
the first degree murder of Michelle Knight Rider Carrie was taken to Corning that evening and formally charged on one
00:41:52
count of second-degree murder and at that point she was denied bail wow so she was taken to the Steuben County Jail
00:41:58
Lloyd meanwhile he was still in New Jersey and now had to be extradited so that was a whole thing yeah
00:42:07
so two days later on January 26th Carrie was arraigned in the city of Corning and
00:42:12
she entered a plea of not guilty to second-degree murder and she waved her right to a preliminary hearing that's
00:42:18
always so hard to say yeah a few days later Lloyd appeared before a judge in New Jersey where he waved extradite
00:42:25
extradition proceedings and then he was eventually transferred also to Steuben County
00:42:31
so he and his daughter Carrie were finally formally indicted in late February in Steuben County New York in
00:42:38
total he was indicted on seven felony accounts damn first degree murder second degree attempted murder first degree
00:42:46
burglary first degree custodial interference tampering with physical evidence second-degree conspiracy and
00:42:53
second degree criminal solicitation wow and Carrie was indicted on four felony counts second-degree murder first degree
00:43:02
custodial interference tampering with physical evidence and second degree conspiracy
00:43:07
and district attorney Brooks Baker told the press this appears to be the ultimate domestic violence case oh it's
00:43:14
awful what is clear from the evidence is this was not a crime of passion this was
00:43:18
planned calculated and a purposeful killing and he destroyed Kerry's life a hundred percent like you Cho you not
00:43:26
only killed this this woman her mother but you destroyed her life no matter if she goes to jail for 25 years or she
00:43:33
goes she doesn't go to jail like you've ruined her life she's going to look back
00:43:37
on this and blame herself yeah the guilt she's gonna feel and like the you know it's like this is this is so bad and now
00:43:44
she's in like a random person you know somebody to kill somebody it's like this is your father
00:43:51
convincing you that this is his only way up like that I can't imagine the emotional
00:43:58
manipulation the trauma that these kids faced like that for her to be manipulated into that by him like the
00:44:06
trauma they had to have faced while they were children up until that point must have been so immense for him even just
00:44:12
those small comments that you heard from family friends like he would yell front
00:44:15
and center yeah that's the thing it's like and people described like him as making their appearance Immaculate like
00:44:21
kids are not meant to be Immaculate no they're meant to be in like just wild and and you know it's like they should
00:44:29
have jam on their face they should like sure are there moments where you want your kids to look presentable for like
00:44:34
your Christmas cards you try to keep their hands clean they're not those fingernails like no it's like this would
00:44:41
be kids and it doesn't sound like they were allowed to be and that's the thing they weren't allowed to be kids because
00:44:46
he was sitting there talking about the custody issue and the financial stuff with his children which is something you
00:44:54
in my opinion you should never [ __ ] do no they should know nothing about your no financial situation your
00:44:59
anything situation they should be kids and kids alone that's it they should never have to know about adult issues
00:45:05
between you or anything like that and it's like when I talk about that all the time that's like one of my biggest
00:45:10
things because when I was little I knew everything was going on in my household I knew money problems I knew custoded
00:45:17
custody I knew custody problems and you shouldn't and like and it makes you have
00:45:22
to grow up so much faster and then you look at other people's child it's a childhoods and you're like oh like you
00:45:28
weren't worried about like you were Carefree like you didn't have to lend your mom your tooth fairy money like
00:45:32
what oh my God that's so awful but yeah but like that's why that's one of my biggest things when I have kids is like
00:45:37
our kids will be kids yeah exactly it's you can't and everybody can raise their kids how they want to because of course
00:45:45
everybody's gonna raise kids differently this is you know this is just our opinion on the matter so take it take it
00:45:52
or leave it but I don't I think this is really [ __ ] up what he into these kids
00:45:56
this is 100 his fault you're not the only one that thinks yeah solidarity cool and actually many professionals
00:46:04
now so from the moment they were arrested investigators knew that Carrie would be the easiest one to flip she was
00:46:10
young she really didn't have a direct involvement in the murder as far as they knew and she very much seemed to have a
00:46:18
[ __ ] ton of guilt about it yeah so after a few weeks and while she was in jail the district attorney met with
00:46:25
her to talk about a plea deal and it was during this interview that she actually
00:46:29
revealed the shocking fact that despite what she had told investigators originally
00:46:35
she actually had helped her father stage the same oh no Carrie yes she didn't play a direct role in the murder like
00:46:43
her father very much murdered but he she helped cover it up she told investigators he opened the door and my
00:46:50
mom was laying on the floor and he said he needed help lifting her we dragged her around the corner and he tied the
00:46:56
Rope to one of the prongs of the banister and lifted her up and put her or and she said lifted her up and put
00:47:03
threw her over the side and she was sobbing while she was saying this like she I can't fathom this she was
00:47:09
traumatized on another the situation this girl was put into is she was put into this situation she was emotionally
00:47:17
manipulated she was oh that's horrible it's horrible she also admitted that her father had ridden in the trunk of her
00:47:25
car all the way back to Rochester and her little sister never even knew he was in the car
00:47:31
that's terrifying she snuck him in the trunk and he stayed in the trunk the entire time that they drove back he's a
00:47:38
[ __ ] demon knowing that he had just murdered their mom knowing that Carrie had to pretend like she hadn't just oh
00:47:46
he's a piece of absolute [ __ ] this guy and the little sister has no [ __ ] idea what's going on
00:47:52
like and it sounds like Carrie it's just like she made very bad choices okay very bad like unimaginally bad
00:48:03
manipulated by a parent which is the worst kind of manipulation I can't even fathom that great and then I it almost
00:48:10
it seems like she was also trying to protect her younger sister absolutely well I'm sure she had to protect a lot
00:48:17
from him yup like I'm sure that was became her a little bit of her job absolutely it's protect the younger ones
00:48:24
I'm sure and it's like that's [ __ ] up that she's never been that the role that
00:48:29
she had to play all these different roles too to try to keep everything the way that
00:48:33
she thought it was but like it's really sad and again the whole thing secondary murder yeah uh-huh absolutely yeah you
00:48:40
didn't call the police you didn't stop it in that sense in any way but damn this is an awful situation it really is
00:48:46
because the sad thing is it's like she didn't have to do this no no way she didn't have to do this but then you look
00:48:52
at it and you're like if she called the police on him and like he didn't go to jail what would have happened to her oh
00:48:57
she just there's no way to put yourself in that situation there was no parent you know like and especially like that
00:49:04
kind of situation none of us can probably imagine it right there really isn't there's no winning but like [ __ ]
00:49:10
it's a it's an unimaginable situation on every level truly from the beginning truly so she did take the deal an
00:49:19
exchange in exchange for testifying against Lloyd she pleaded guilty to one count of second-degree manslaughter okay
00:49:26
and she went on the record as having helped her father yeah so during the hearing she explained
00:49:31
to the court how her father had confronted her with the ultimatum either she helped him kill Michelle or he was
00:49:37
going to kill himself and she said she didn't know what to do so she agreed to help and and so this is actually like a
00:49:44
thing that was done to her it has like an actual term because in later interviews Brooks Baker would explain
00:49:49
that Carrie had undergone what's known as parental alienation it's a process where one parent consistently criticizes
00:49:57
and devalues the other parent with the intention of turning that child against the other parent oh yeah you can that's
00:50:03
like literally something that you can claim in custody issues is like to keep them away from the other parents like
00:50:10
because they will like claim parental alienation yeah that's when you get like um a guardian a guardian at Litem I
00:50:16
think and that's when they kind of start to work their way into a situation like
00:50:20
that which it's sad that it sounds like a maybe a Guardian guardian at Litem would have
00:50:27
been a better answer here honestly it just it's like just because the the relationship between Michelle and Lloyd
00:50:32
had gotten so contentious that I think there needed to be like a third party yeah because it sounded like the kids
00:50:39
were being so affected by it and that sucks that sucks yeah like that really does that sucks that
00:50:46
people do this to their kids and it's like your relationship with your your adult relationship should not have
00:50:52
anything to do with your children no and it's so sad I I don't know why I just thought of this but like I was looking
00:50:57
at pictures of them together because I try to look at pictures to kind of like understand who the people are and
00:51:01
everything and there was pictures of like Michelle and Lloyd when they first got together and Carrie and the older
00:51:07
sister as babies oh I saw I was looking at those pictures and they all look so so happy like he looks like a happy
00:51:14
Goofy Dad yeah I think there's pictures of him like in the delivery room like yeah it kind of looks like when I was
00:51:19
looking at some of them and he looked so excited and like happy to come into Academy
00:51:24
what your future was and how did you like go from there to turning into this [ __ ] awful monster
00:51:32
and again you want it like the marriage you want to end the marriage that's fine
00:51:35
the language keep that relationship in that contention away from your kids seriously so like and it's like
00:51:44
sometimes people are just not allowed to do that because the other parent won't allow like won't let it happen it's like
00:51:49
that sucks it's really sad and it's really tragic how toxic divorce can be yeah especially for the kids involved in
00:51:57
divorce and even when there's no kids involved in divorce it just sucks yeah it sucks I feel bad anybody going
00:52:03
through that I'm sorry that sucks because I can't even hug imagine and I would have no advice to give you because
00:52:09
it's just I can't even fathom that no and you can't you can't prepare for it people are different in every situation
00:52:15
so oh it just sucks this is just a [ __ ] terrible situation it's tragic it really is so with Carrie having pled
00:52:23
guilty and planning to testify against her father the DA's office got ready for what they figured Lloyd's most obvious
00:52:30
defense would be that Carrie was the one who had killed Michelle and he was just
00:52:33
protecting her all along oh yeah because again all of the evidence against him was circumstantial so far and the only
00:52:40
one who would confessed to anything was Carrie so he easily could have turned around and like gone after if he does
00:52:46
that well like he's a [ __ ] monster but it's like how low can you go yeah pretty low oh so uh district attorney
00:52:55
Baker was anticipating an uphill battle of a trial so he went to Lloyd With A Deal offer he said you can plead guilty
00:53:03
to the charge of first-degree murder face a sentence of 25 years to life in prison and the additional charges will
00:53:09
drop them if you take this deal now at the time it was offered like we know Lloyd was facing several felony cats
00:53:17
with additional charges now being added after the fact because it was discovered
00:53:22
that he and his sister Wendy Wendy vanilla there had attempted to bribe Carrie to change her testimony what the
00:53:29
[ __ ] [ __ ] you Wendy too yeah they told she actually ended up getting arrested
00:53:33
too both of you they told Carrie that they would get her a lawyer like one of the best lawyers and that she would like
00:53:39
get out of everything if she didn't do this what the [ __ ] yeah what is wrong with these people I do not know oh so he
00:53:47
was now facing extra charges against that so but at the same time Brooks Baker the D.A was like I don't know if
00:53:54
he's gonna be the kind of guy that's willing to come to the table with a compromise like this guy never backed
00:53:59
down is he really gonna back down now but after weeks of consideration Lloyd surprised the DA's office and he
00:54:06
accepted the deal wow which is shocking yeah I'm shocked by that so after the excuse me as with the deal offered to
00:54:12
Carrie Lloyd would have to go before a judge and explain on the record what he had done and at the moment he started
00:54:19
talking Baker was like oh no this entire deal is going to fall apart he said I thought we were going to go bad from
00:54:25
minute one because he starts off blaming Michelle wow blaming Michelle but just as quickly
00:54:32
as he blamed her he actually surprised everybody Again by reversing his course Baker told CBS he sort of said but that
00:54:39
doesn't matter I have no excuse murder is wrong it's like all of a sudden he was like beep beep boop I'm supposed to
00:54:45
say this like actually I have to get a plea deal so let me anything you say after blaming the murder victim for
00:54:52
their own murder is uh is pretty moot pretty mute so he did he went before the judge on October 12 2018. he confessed
00:55:01
that he had killed his ex-wife in order to quote take custody of his 14 year old
00:55:05
daughter and to end the financial burden of paying Michelle as part of a divorce
00:55:10
settlement wow it's like dude just go back to court if you don't want to pay that much money or just stop paying even
00:55:17
like even that's better than murdering someone anything short of murder yes is a better idea right now he also admitted
00:55:24
obviously to manipulating and coercing carry into helping them cover up the murder and enlisting his sister to bribe
00:55:30
Carrie into changing her testimony well I'm shocked that he just admitted all this he had to or else he wasn't going
00:55:36
to get the deal I know I'm surprised he took the steal like have forcing him to I know admit it I am too because no
00:55:41
matter what he was gonna basically spend the rest of his life yeah the better part of his life in prison
00:55:47
so two months later he went before a Steuben County Judge where he was sentenced to life in prison without the
00:55:53
possibility of parole bye and at the hearing he told the court that he had found God no one cares and now he felt
00:56:00
remorse about killing Michelle good for you but was quick to add and this is his
00:56:04
words not mine Michelle was unstable and needed to be committed to a mental institution oh there you are you really
00:56:10
had to Serious he's back everybody how's God yep so before the sentence was passed Michelle's mom got to read her
00:56:16
victim and her statement and she said Lloyd nyrider abused and tortured my daughter for 25 years he coerced his own
00:56:23
daughter into helping him kill her mother Carrie is now in jail facing the possibility of years in prison Lloyd and
00:56:30
I Rider should never be given the opportunity to harm anyone again please your honor give him life without parole
00:56:35
yes and that he did because it's like this isn't just a gun this is it's bad enough when a man will kill his wife
00:56:44
like you know the mother of his children like that that's Unthinkable but add add
00:56:50
your child Into The Fray what and let them take part of the [ __ ] my brain just like explodes every time I
00:57:02
think about it so he is serving uh servingly I combined currently and serving you know he is currently serving
00:57:09
his sentence at the maximum security uh Clinton Correctional Facility in dannemora New York
00:57:16
and now that leaves us with Carrie yeah I'm dying to know what's happening here so a week after her father was sent in
00:57:21
she went before the same judge and she was sentenced to one to three years in State Prison ultimately she did serve
00:57:28
two years of that sentence and she got released on January 16 2020. wow now a lot of people even before and after her
00:57:36
sentence was passed they went out of their way to convey that in certain ways she also was a victim like we've been
00:57:42
saying this whole time of her father's cruelty yeah Michelle's mother so Carrie's grandmother wrote in a letter
00:57:49
to the judge saying I do not believe my daughter Michelle would want a long prison sentence for her daughter she
00:57:54
would want her to eventually lead a happy life Wow which is that tells you all you need to know I think that's true
00:57:58
yeah and Brooks Baker the D.A agreed he said if anything the more information I've learned about the methodology the
00:58:05
father used to get control the more confident I am that this was the appropriate result see and that all
00:58:10
tells you except that they know more than we do well what happened here and I'm sure it's way worse than we thought
00:58:17
on his end 100 in that you know and I think Carrie having to live mentally with what she was a part of the rest of
00:58:24
her life I would say is a punishment and of itself now reflecting on the case Brooks Brooks Baker hard to say remarked
00:58:32
having the daughter involved was very unusual this is the first case I've dealt with where the child is involved
00:58:37
in the homicide of a parent I hope it's my last I also hope that my guy yeah yeah that is the story of the murder of
00:58:45
Michelle Knight Rider such a tragic story and it sounds like since Carrie was released she's just kind of gone on
00:58:51
to lead a very private life well you know I hope that I hope the best for her I really do I hope she gets the help
00:58:58
that she needs yeah but it was clearly a traumatic childhood and a traumatic you
00:59:04
know young adulthood and I really truly hope that her father leaves her alone like I hope that she never [ __ ] has
00:59:09
to hear from that piece of [ __ ] again no it's not a healthy yeah relationship that's gonna offer her anything in my
00:59:16
opinion what a terrible case that is terrible in every way that it could be terrible poor
00:59:23
Michelle truly those poor kids seriously and Michelle's mom yeah what if I was like damn yeah she is incredible laid it
00:59:32
down about Lloyd and then she laid it down about Carrie being manipulated and the fact that she already had to spend
00:59:39
so many years estranged from her daughter because of Lloyd and then Lloyd took her daughter forever Yeah that poor
00:59:45
poor family wow that I also hope nothing but the best for them I know I hope everyone everyone that you know isn't
00:59:52
Lloyd yeah I hope they're they're driving well me too I hope they're you know living a peaceful existence me too
00:59:59
and [ __ ] yeah but I hope that uh you guys keep listening yeah and we hope you keep it weird but that's the only thing
01:00:09
I've ever convince your uh child to murder your uh spouse because that's a [ __ ] wild thing to do when you
01:00:14
shouldn't have children if you're gonna do that yeah don't do that money [Music]
01:00:33
thank you