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Hey weirdos, I'm Ash. And I'm Elena. And this is Pollen Morbid. [music] Oh my god. Pollen is destroying
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everybody's lives over here. >> Is pollen eating your insides alive? >> Yeah. Is pollen
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Raise your hand if you've been personally victimized by pollen. Everybody shoots hands in the air.
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>> Pollen is rough right now. We had an air quality alert yesterday that was like,
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"Hey, you should probably stay inside." >> I'm getting murdered by pollen. Like,
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it's really, really bad. I've never had allergies this bad in my I've never had allergies period. Really?
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>> And I do be having not only allergies, but guess what? I have asthma. >> Yeah.
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>> All of a sudden, the doctor said, "Honey, you have asthma." [laughter] And I said, "I haven't had asthma since I
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was a child. I thought it went away." >> And they said, "No." >> He said, "It doesn't quite work like
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that." So Alina is taking one for the team. And she took the up for me [laughter] because I'm hacking up a
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lung. I'm out of breath. >> Yeah. There was no way I was I was going to make her talk for an entire hour or
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so, however long this will be. >> Honestly, you guys wouldn't have wanted to hear it.
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>> Yeah. We don't need her hacking all over, you know. I don't want to I don't want to hack on you and and what you're
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going through with pollen already. >> Yeah. You know, >> but I do have something for you. Yeah.
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>> Because it's my birthday today if you're listening. >> Tech it's like in a couple days if from
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now, but if you're listening when this comes out, >> it'll be Ash's birthday. >> So, we have a sale for you on the Morbid
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merch store um which is at Sirius. Um Let me actually give you the actual website.
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>> Okay. So, it's literally just SiriusXM store and then there's another one for
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if you don't live in this country and that's in our Instagram bio. >> Yeah. >> Um, but the if you use the code ash sale
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assh sale, then you can get 25% off your order. >> Yay. Do it. >> It's really fun. We have a couple new
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things in the store. We have the candle which smells so [ __ ] good. >> We did. We picked the scent
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specifically. >> We did. We have the horned hoodie, which I'm really excited about. We have the
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Nicholas shirt if you're a Nicholas supporter. >> I love the Nicholas shirt. >> I've also seen a lot of you coming
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around on Nicholas. >> I have, too. And it warms my heart. Yeah, >> it really does. And this shirt is how
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you can show your support. >> Show your support for for good old Saint Nick. >> Yeah.
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>> Who is not Staint Nick, but he's our Nick. >> He's our Saint Nick. >> We need to post um when that video from
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when we unpacked the printer. >> Oh, yeah. cuz I think I think we can speed it up a little bit. Um,
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[clears throat] and I think Nicholas visited us. Uh, yeah, I think Nicholas was helping me put away stuff from the
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printer that I was unboxing and he was like, "You have more room in this box. Let me push this stuff down for you."
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Because I was sitting there just watching as all of the packing stuff was being slowly pushed down
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>> and it was all like like obviously things rustle when you put them back in a box. So, at first we were like, "Okay,
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maybe it's just that." But then it continued for 3 minutes. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, I'm going to post the sped up
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version of that. >> It's a little strange. >> Yeah. >> A little strange. >> Paranormal, if you will.
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>> But yeah, use that code ash sale. 25% off. >> That's a good deal. >> It's pretty sick. So, if you are
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waiting, >> it's almost like I'm turning 25. >> Almost. But you're not. >> I'm not. [laughter]
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I'm not. Look at her now. She's calling me old. I was going to say you've had fun with mine now. Ash is Ash is the big
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three 0. Everybody by my 20s. >> I am. I'm having a a funeral for my 20s. >> Honestly, 30s are when things get
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awesome. >> I'm so ready to leave my 20s in the dust. A lot of great things happened
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like in the later years of my 20s, but like the early to mid of my 20s. Quite mid. [laughter]
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>> Quite mid if mid, if you will. Oh, well, we have uh today, this was Ash's case at
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first, so I got the pleasure of reading this and going, "Oh." >> I said, "Here, I did half of this." I
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said, "I'll give you my other half." >> Yeah. So, I read read through this and said, "Oh my."
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>> Yeah. I'm sorry. >> Uh, we're covering the San Cedro McDonald's massacre today.
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>> This is a really, really brutal case. >> Yeah. I I would like to give a big big
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trigger warning right off the bat. Um I'm not going to this isn't going to be gruesome in the sense of me explaining
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everyone's injuries or anything like that. This is a mass shooting that can be very triggering for people. I
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completely understand if this episode is one you say, "Hey, I'll see you on Thursday."
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>> Totally. >> Totally get it. But again, I'm not going to get crazy with my descriptions. Um
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but this is rough. It is >> and it's scary. and it's horrific and he's a monster and uh it's a really
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rough one. So, I just I need you to know that right out the bat uh right out the
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gate that that this is rough and it's a mass shooting. So, again, >> if that is something that you are like
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this is just not one of the ones that I can do. >> We totally understand. Yeah, >> we totally get it. So, like we'll see
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you Thursday if that's the case. >> Yeah, we'll miss you. We get it. >> But it is a story that needs to be told
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because one, these people lost their lives. these innocent people who were just going to McDonald's.
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>> Well, there was just so many warning signs in this case from the time that Jim, who is the mass murderer,
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>> Jim Puberty, just so many signs from the time that he was a small child. >> Like he should have received help.
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>> Yeah. Like >> I don't know exactly what help or what it would have done, >> but he needed some he needed something.
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>> Yeah. And also, um, coincidentally, it's men's mental, uh, health awareness month. So, this is kind of a
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>> this kind of fits really perfect in this because there was several times that
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people around him said, "Yeah, it was so crazy." He like said he was going to kill everybody and he couldn't wait to,
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you know, shoot things into people's flesh. And yeah, he's a weird guy. >> He constantly talked about like
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destroying people's bodies. >> It's like, I don't know. Some sometimes it's okay to reach out and say,
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>> "Yeah, >> hey, this person is speaking in a way that makes me think he might hurt
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someone." It's okay. Like, you can do it anonymously. This was in the, you know,
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this was in the 80s, >> you know, growing up in the 70s and stuff, things were a little different
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for sure. Like, it was not >> people, they were not out here getting help for especially men's mental health.
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>> You grew up like in the Midwest, which obviously like is a totally different culture. There were factors here that
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for sure we can look back with the hindsight of 2026 and say why didn't anybody do anything and things were
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different. So we do have to use those lenses to look at it. >> But now in 2026 if someone around you is
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making these kind of statements or acting these kind of ways >> to call someone.
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>> It's you see something say something. It's like you can you can do it anonymously but like just
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>> whenever you can try to >> cuz you can avoid catastrophes like this. And also like
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>> that person needs help. >> Yeah. Like he needed to be this man needed to be he's like a he's like a bad
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person at his core. >> Well, that's a really mentally ill man at his core. >> He's also racist. He's also a he beats
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his own children. Like his daughters, he beats his wife. Like >> he's a at his core Jim Puberty is an
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evil piece of [ __ ] >> Yeah. >> And that's the thing that I think we all need to realize is you can be two thing.
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Two things can be true at once. He can be mentally ill and he can also be a really [ __ ] bad person. Not everybody
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who's mentally ill is a really great person and they just suffer from this thing. Of course, there are plenty of
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people who are really good people who are kind and good people and suffer from mental illness and do things they
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normally wouldn't have done and don't want to do. That is 100% often the case to be honest. But there is also cases
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when somebody is violently mentally ill and should and does need extensive help but is also just a really bad person at
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their core and would have done something bad >> regardless of the mental illness
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possibly. So >> Jim Huberty to me falls into that category. He's just a bad person. He's
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not nice. He's violent to children. He's violent to women. He's violent to men. He's violent to
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>> He's horrible and he says horrible things. He >> he's just not he was never around him
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like he just Yeah. And he seemed like he was that way from pretty young. So yeah.
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So that is that is definitely one of those situations here. And again, this is a tough one, but we're going to get
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into it. >> All right. So everybody mark your timers. >> Yep. >> Here we are. On the evening of July
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15th, 1984, James Huberty and his wife Edna, were sitting on the couch watching TV when James, who was better known as
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Jim, casually mentioned that he thought he was experiencing symptoms of mental illness. Uh, Edna had long suspected
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that something was going on with Jim. He had violent mood swings. He couldn't regulate his emotions at all. He had a
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crazy explosive temper. He was very violent. Um, he was also racist. And that was the first time she'd ever heard
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him acknowledge his struggles pretty directly. >> I do wonder what all of a sudden made
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him realize that something was off because like we said in the beginning for so much of his life it was like
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that. I'm like >> off the rails for his whole life. So I don't know what made him just go
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>> I think I need help. >> I wonder if he knew. I mean I think he did >> at this point. I think he said, "I'm
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going to do something real bad." >> Yeah. >> If I And and maybe there was a small
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part of him that was like, "I should probably try to stop myself." And I wonder if he also was looking at this
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as, okay, if they accept me, cuz he does call for help. >> If they accept this and they help me,
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then >> then that's how it's supposed to be. Yeah, >> but if they decide not, then they are
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proving everything that I believe about the government, about society, about human beings.
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>> And then they deserve it. I think that's exactly what his >> um and this is another this mental
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health help back then pretty bad. Pretty bad. [clears throat] And even now, we always need to get
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better. So, this is a good little thing about that. >> So, yeah. So Edna became even more
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hopeful a few days later when she noticed him on the phone with a local mental health center. Uh so she was
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like, "What are you doing?" And he said he had called to make an appointment. And at the time there was no one
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available to take his call, which already you're like, >> "Uh, good. >> What do you mean?" [laughter] But
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>> you know, he called during lunch on purpose. >> Yeah, exactly. But the receptionist at
00:11:00
the center took his information and said someone would get back to him within a few hours. Now, when he spoke to the
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receptionist, he was polite. He was calm. He sounded composed. So there was no reason for them to suspect, this is
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back then, >> that he was in crisis. Now we know now that someone in crisis is not always
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screaming and yelling and crying. They are not always saying something crazy or quote unquote crazy that you think is
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going to like >> really cause some damage. Like I think now we're a lot more wellversed on the
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idea that somebody in crisis is not always the typical crisis that you're thinking in your mind. But according to
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them, he didn't say anything to indicate that he was. So the call was logged as noncrisis.
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Noncrisis calls were returned in the order they received, typically within 48 hours. Unfortunately, the receptionist
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also misheard his name when he gave his last name, and she wrote it down as Huberty. Now, even more unfortunate, by
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the time his message came up in the queue to be returned, it was too late. James Huberty had already killed 21
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people and was killed by the San Diego police snipers bullet. So James Hubert's shocking killing spree
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and violent death was definitely just the period on a life filled with a lot of chaos and a lot of things a lot of
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like we were saying times when someone should have stepped in >> warning signs. >> He was born October 11th 1942 in Canton,
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Ohio. He was the second of two children born to Earl and Eel. Just a few years later, when he was three years old, Jim
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contracted polio. >> Yeah. >> And had to wear leather and metal braces for a long period of time. I mean,
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thanks to the braces, he was able to walk again. But they caused him to have a different walk than he might have had
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before. And according to one of his primary school teachers, that alone was enough to make him the target for
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bullies. And the other children made fun of him and were just >> kids suck. >> Yeah. Like get it together and teach
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your kids not to be [ __ ] >> How are you making fun of somebody with polio? >> My god. If I ever found out my kids were
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making fun of someone for the way they walked, we'd have we'd have a talk. When Jim was 7 years old, his father bought a
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155 acre farm in Monten, Mount Eaton. That was about 20 miles away from Canton, and he moved the almost the
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whole family, I should say. >> Almost. Jim's mother was pretty resistant to the idea from the start and
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just refused to move with her family, >> which is wild. >> Instead, she packed her bags, headed
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west, and joined a Pentecostal missionary group, abandoning her entire family. >> Yeah. Great.
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>> So, obviously, this was extremely hard on Jim and his sister Ruth. And he would
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like like his father would just find him like crying like at various times. >> Yeah. Just all over the property,
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>> which is really like obviously you can feel bad for the kid version of him. That's awful. Yeah,
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>> you had your mom for seven years of your life and then she's like you cuz she's
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like I don't feel like moving. >> Oh, okay. >> Now at school was taunted and mistreated
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by you know his by Pierce from everything from his appearance, the way he walked to the fact that his mother
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abandoned him. Like imagine people making fun of you because you're you were abandoned as a child. What about
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that is funny? >> I don't know. My brain can't wrap around it. It literally can't.
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>> What's the And also just like what's the joke then? >> Well, that's the What is the joke?
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>> Lol. Your mom left. >> And it's like, >> yeah, >> okay, >> that's funny to you.
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>> What is the joke? Like, I don't understand what the like, it's so weird. It's so [ __ ] up.
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>> So, he was unable to make friends a lot of the time. He spent a lot of his time
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alone or with the family dog just >> developing a really sullen and angry temperament.
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>> Yeah. I feel like for children to be alone and isolated for too long >> and being mistreated by their peers
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>> at the same time is just truly a recipe for disaster, >> especially when nothing else is being
00:14:56
done, you know. >> And then you have like abandonment from a mom >> can [ __ ] a kid up.
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>> Yeah. >> Obviously. So just >> lots of [snorts] lots of little [ __ ] happening. Now, when he reached junior
00:15:10
high, he started to develop a strong interest in guns and shooting, and he would spend the rest of his life
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obsessively cultivating his own collection. >> The word obsessive, it's like >> that doesn't even begin to describe it.
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>> He was >> Yeah, >> he was a gun. >> Yeah, he literally was. Now, years later, his former co-workers in Ohio
00:15:28
would describe him to a reporter as fanatical. That's not a good way to be. uh with one supervisor saying he had a
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lot of guns and he always said that he wanted to kill a lot of people. >> If somebody is always saying that they
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want to kill a lot of people, you have a problem cuz like also what was your response to that? Okay, Jim.
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Like also this whole case had me wondering does any place that he works have an HR department? I I don't know if
00:16:02
HR departments back then were just like [snorts] chilling. >> Yeah. [laughter] I don't know what they
00:16:08
were doing, but it's like if he's at work saying he has a lot of guns and he really wants to kill a lot of people,
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>> you got to call someone. >> You got to call someone. But at the time, he was just a lonely like again
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this was years later that that was being happening, but we're staying in the past
00:16:25
here cuz at the time he was just a lonely boy who had found a way to pass the time. And in a rural place like
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Mount Eaton, guns and shooting were not exactly uncommon. It's not like this was
00:16:34
a weird fixation. >> Hunting was like a big deal. I mean, he lives on a farm. >> Now, throughout his high school years,
00:16:40
he kind of kept a low profile. He didn't join any teams or clubs. He had like a few friendships, maybe. Um, he really
00:16:47
just spent most of his time at home enthusiastically pursuing his hobby of guns. By the time he was in his late
00:16:53
teens, he had become something of like an he was like an amateur gunsmith really. He learned how to make and load
00:16:59
his own ammunition, alter his weapons, making small improvements to things like grip and sights.
00:17:06
>> Scary when you know what the outcome is, >> for sure. Now, after graduating from
00:17:10
high school, he enrolled at Malone College, a small Quaker school in Canton, and he studied sociology there
00:17:16
before dropping out two years later and moving to Pennsylvania, where he went to
00:17:20
the Pittsburgh Institute of Mortuary Science. After graduating in 1963, he found work as a mortician's apprentice
00:17:28
at a local funeral home. And during that time, he became a licensed inbalmer and
00:17:32
mortician. His former employer, Don Williams, said, "I told him he was in the wrong business. He was a good
00:17:38
inbomber, but he just didn't relate to people." >> Yeah, you don't say. >> It turned out that at least on some
00:17:43
level, Jim agreed. uh because within a year of being licensed in Ohio, he'd quit the mortuary business altogether
00:17:49
and taken a job as an assembly line uh worker at a local factory. Changing careers wasn't the only big
00:17:56
change in his life at the time, though. He'd also started dating at Ner Mark MKland. And in 1965, they got married at
00:18:03
Trinity Gospel Temple in Canton, Ohio. >> I just wonder like what their meat cute
00:18:09
was. >> I wonder what she saw in him because no one liked him. Nobody he was very
00:18:15
miserable all the time. >> And I also just wonder like did they get through their first date without him
00:18:20
mentioning that he wanted to kill a lot of people. >> That's the thing. I'm like he seems like
00:18:24
he is just you see any of the people talking about him and everyone's like he was just a miserable person to be
00:18:30
around. Not cuz he was sad all the time. He was mean and angry and said horrible
00:18:36
[ __ ] and would talk about killing people. He liked to talk about the different bullets and the like damage
00:18:42
they inflicted on human flesh. Like >> nobody wants to talk about that. >> What is it about him? I I figured this
00:18:50
is the kind of guy that would stay alone forever. >> I know. >> But no. From the moment he first met
00:18:55
Jim, the pastor who married the couple, David Lombardi, actually had reservations about the relationship and
00:19:01
the marriage completely. He said he had real inner conflicts. By the time he was
00:19:06
dating Etna, he was atheistic and blamed God for taking his mother away from him.
00:19:11
I'd like to point out that him being like leaning towards being atheist has literally nothing to do with like
00:19:18
>> inner conflicts of this magnitude. >> Yeah, I think [laughter] I think that's
00:19:21
important to point out like, you know what I mean? I think he has a lot of inner conflicts,
00:19:27
>> but I don't think him being an atheist is one of them. I think that's I'm [laughter] like, okay,
00:19:33
>> that's just a thing. >> Yeah. He also said that Jim was halfway intelligent, but when you dealt with
00:19:37
him, you always felt a little uneasy about the way he harbored something inside. He was pent up. He was a loner
00:19:43
and he had kind of an explosive personality. Those are definitely his inner conflicts.
00:19:47
>> And that's what everyone said, specifically explosive. >> Mhm. Even after marriage and buying a
00:19:53
house, his interpersonal skills never got much better than when he was a kid. And he was still struggling to control
00:19:58
his explosive anger. Small conflicts at work usually escalated really quickly with Jim taking out way more offense at
00:20:07
some, you know, light things like teasing or perceived slights. Like I don't like teasing either.
00:20:13
>> I hate teasing, >> but like you can't explode and go off the handle at people.
00:20:17
>> And sometimes people are just trying to like have a good time. Like I don't think they were necessarily like
00:20:21
bullying him, you know? >> No. And the best thing to do in those situations is to tell someone like,
00:20:25
"Hey, I don't really love >> Yeah. >> I don't really love being teased like that." It kind of like sets something
00:20:31
off and they'll be like, "Oh shit." All right. >> Yeah. >> That's how you get to know people.
00:20:34
That's how you And also that's how you teach people how to treat you. >> Yeah. Cuz you that's what you have to
00:20:38
do. >> Exploding in anger at someone cuz they do something like that won't get you
00:20:42
anywhere. They're not going to learn anything except, "Wow, you're an asshole." >> Yeah. I don't want to be
00:20:46
>> It's like if you just I hate teasing. So there's been times where I've had to say
00:20:49
to people, "Hey, like I actually don't love that. >> Like don't poke me." >> And they're like, "Oh [ __ ] sorry." And
00:20:54
then they know how to treat you. >> Yeah. >> Teach them. Teach them everybody. >> It's true. But even people who attempted
00:21:00
friendly conversation or like small talk found him to be very unpleasant and all
00:21:05
described him as hostile. >> Uh his gun obsession got way worse as well. He covered his entire home in
00:21:11
guns. His coworker Jim Alanes recalled, "No matter where he was sitting or standing in the house, he could reach
00:21:18
over and get a gun." >> To me, that's too much. >> That's scary to me. >> My personal opinion, I think that's too
00:21:23
much. >> My personal thing is like I don't have anything against guns. Like if you are
00:21:28
somebody who responsibly uses a gun, >> oh awesome. Like good for you, man. Uh like I really don't have a problem with
00:21:35
it. If you are responsible with it, I fully support it >> having >> I don't understand having that many.
00:21:41
>> Yeah. >> But that's I that's just something I don't understand. I'm not saying you're
00:21:44
a bad person for it. I just mean I don't get it personally. >> I also think especially in this case
00:21:48
because later on he does go on to have two children. Guns should not just be accessible in the home. You should not
00:21:54
be able to reach anywhere and get a gun if you have like kids in the house. It's
00:21:57
just not safe. >> So dangerous. >> It's just not safe. We've seen it. >> And again, Jim could also usually be
00:22:03
found sitting by the front door of his house, door open with a shotgun across his lap,
00:22:08
waiting. Yeah. >> And that's not responsible. >> That's not being a responsible gun
00:22:13
owner. It was precisely that type of bizarre threatening behavior that he was constantly exhibiting that convinced his
00:22:20
coworker Jim as lanes that he did not want to get to know him outside of work. He said, "It was little things like that
00:22:26
just showed me there was something wrong with him." >> Which is very astute. In 1972, Etna gave
00:22:33
birth to the couple's first child, a daughter who was followed by a second daughter two years later. If anyone
00:22:40
expected fatherhood to change or soften Jim Huberty, they were going to be sorely disappointed. Not only was he
00:22:46
unwilling to change his increasingly confrontational, reckless behavior cuz he saw no need to set the safety on any
00:22:52
of his guns, even with toddlers in the house. >> And that's the kind of thing I'm saying
00:22:55
is it's like he was a very irresponsible gun >> and just an [ __ ] Like he literally
00:23:00
didn't care about his kids at all. >> But he also seemed mostly uninterested in parenting altogether, which like why
00:23:07
did you have kids then? Exactly. >> Years later, after the couple moved to San Diego, many of the neighbors would
00:23:12
recall that while Jim seemed to have a general dislike for most people, he seemed to loathe children,
00:23:19
>> which like >> what's wrong with >> how do you not like kids? >> Just you don't have to be around them if
00:23:23
you don't want to. >> Like I get it. Some kids are annoying for sure. Like I usually only like the
00:23:27
ones related to me, >> but like kids are adorable. Come on. >> I Here's the thing. If people make a
00:23:34
choice not to have kids, more power to you. >> Yeah. fully like hell yeah. >> Well, if you're making that choice,
00:23:40
clearly that's the right choice for you. >> Yeah, because that's the choice. You're
00:23:43
being a responsible human and you're saying, you know what, I don't want that and you don't need to have that or want
00:23:47
that. Good for you. In fact, I applaud you. >> But when people make it their entire
00:23:52
personality that they hate children, >> that's weird. >> That's weird cuz [laughter] it's like
00:23:57
you don't need to have them. >> Yeah. It's not a requirement. >> So, so just don't
00:24:03
>> I do like it's okay. I will say I think back then it did feel like more of like
00:24:08
a requirement like it was like you got married and then you had to have kids. >> And I think a lot of people feel like
00:24:13
weird societal pressure. >> Yeah. >> Like I'm sure Etna did, you know. >> Yeah, for sure.
00:24:18
>> So, but still like maybe not with Jim, babe. >> Maybe not. Like Jim Jim doesn't seem
00:24:23
like he's he's great here. No. >> Uh and again like himless like loathing children. I'm like get over him.
00:24:29
>> It's weird. A former neighbor of his told the New York Times, "Everybody talks about that here. He was always
00:24:34
yelling at kids. >> That would have pissed me off." [laughter] Uh, now when it came to the children in
00:24:43
his neighborhood, Jim's frustration and anger was limited to yelling and calling
00:24:47
them names. You know, norm normal adult behavior with children. >> With his own children, on the other
00:24:53
hand, he was known to have been verbally, emotionally, and physically violent. On one occasion, just a week or
00:25:00
two before the shooting spree, this is horrendous. This is really, by the way, >> uh, the Hubert's neighbor, Wanda, was
00:25:06
surprised when Jim's older daughter showed up at her door with welts all over her face. Poor baby.
00:25:10
>> And when she asked what happened, the girl replied her daddy had slapped her around.
00:25:14
>> That's so sad. >> [ __ ] Jim puberty. >> And to just like say that so openly,
00:25:20
>> casually, like that's >> clearly he didn't give a [ __ ] because he's willing to send his daughter.
00:25:25
>> Yeah. He doesn't care >> and he knows she's going to say what happened. It's like
00:25:28
>> and she's saying it like, "Isn't this just something that happened?" >> Yeah, that's what dads do, right?
00:25:32
>> Yeah. That's horrific. >> So sad. >> In the winter of 1971, their house caught fire while they were all out of
00:25:38
the house. Uh at that time, Jim was storing large containers of gunpowder in the basement. And when the fire reached
00:25:44
that area of the house, it just went up in a huge giant fireball. Like destroyed
00:25:47
the whole explosion. >> Yeah. Like down [clears throat] to the foundation. But they actually bounced
00:25:51
back pretty quick and they bought a three like a big three-story home on the lot next to where their old house was.
00:25:58
And then on the now vacant lot, they built a six-unit apartment building that would eventually provide them extra
00:26:03
income. >> Imagine Jim Huberty being your landlord. >> No, thank you. >> Yeah, I mean, I'm sure he didn't really
00:26:07
handle anything. >> Probably not. According to one author, any success that they experienced during
00:26:12
this time was probably certainly Edna's hard work. >> Uh for most, if not all of their
00:26:18
marriage, she did literally everything. She managed the household, the children.
00:26:21
She dealt with the world outside of the home cuz he couldn't. >> In the morning, he would she would get
00:26:27
her husband and children out of bed, lay out their clothes, pack their lunches, and get them to their various locations.
00:26:36
>> She had three children. >> Yeah. and she was always going out of her way to limit Jim's interactions with
00:26:41
the people around them, terrified that any conversation or miscommunication would escalate into like physical
00:26:48
violence or him exploding, which gives in this sense I feel so horrible because Edna obviously felt terrified
00:26:57
>> like this was her lot. >> Well, and the other thing is >> she was just trying to limit his
00:27:01
exposure to other people. >> Exactly. And I'm sure a part of her was probably terrified to leave him. Like,
00:27:07
>> oh, she was probably horrified. >> I'm not condoning the fact that she didn't cuz obviously he's beating her
00:27:11
and their children. Like, that's awful. >> But she's probably so scared. He has a
00:27:15
zillion guns. >> That's the thing. It's like >> and he's going to see that as like
00:27:18
another slight. Who's to say he's not going to go after you and your babies? >> And again, it's easy for us to sit here
00:27:24
from a place where we have like loving, safe partners. >> Yeah. >> And say, you know, like I would get out
00:27:31
of that house. I don't know what that feels like. And I and I can't sit here and claim that I do or feel like I would
00:27:37
be the superwoman that knew what to do when our entire house is covered in insane amounts of guns
00:27:43
>> to the point where we'll explode if there's a fire. >> Explosive and hurting all of us and
00:27:48
threatening all of that. Like I don't That's living hell. I can't fathom that. >> It wasn't easy for a woman in the 70s to
00:27:56
break out on her own with two children. You couldn't even get a [ __ ] credit card.
00:28:00
>> Exactly. So, it's like that's horrific. It really is. Like, it's horrific. [sighs] I hate it. It's so sad. But
00:28:07
yeah, she was always just trying to keep him from getting in trouble essentially.
00:28:11
And behind closed doors though, he had no trouble taking out his anger on the entire family. She said, and this is so
00:28:17
sad. It is. >> She said, quote, "Generally, it was just one hit, but there were other times that
00:28:21
he would beat them all relentlessly. >> Uh, he even threatened one of his daughters with a butcher knife once."
00:28:27
Literally, they're >> insane. >> Like young kids. And I mean, I don't even care if your daughter's 35 years
00:28:34
old and you threaten her with a butcher knife. What the [ __ ] is wrong with you?
00:28:37
>> There's He's a horrific monster. He really is. >> For just about anyone who knew or even
00:28:42
those who had just met him, Jim Hubert's rage and extremely unpleasant demeanor were definitely the primary problems.
00:28:50
But just beneath that were other more subtle signs of emotional distress that generally went overlooked. Cuz again,
00:28:57
that's the same thing we're saying. He's just a bad person. He's just a nasty, mean, violent, bad person who is
00:29:04
severely mentally unwwell. >> Right. On top of all, >> and it's like, he's probably one of
00:29:09
>> the scariest types of people you can imagine. Oh, yeah. This isn't a kind-hearted person who has a mental
00:29:15
health crisis. This is a bad monster who is currently suffering really severely with mental health
00:29:24
problems. It's like that is the worst combination I can think of. It absolutely >> truly which makes me feel for his
00:29:32
children and his wife even more because living with that is unthinkable >> cuz you just never know what you're
00:29:39
going to get >> and you just know it's all bad. >> It's got to be dark as hell. >> Like there's no way of getting beneath
00:29:46
this mental health crisis cuz underneath is a bad person. So there's no like light at the end of the tunnel with him.
00:29:52
>> It's just really sad. But as early as the mid 1970s, Edna started encouraging her husband to seek
00:29:59
mental health like help, which like kudos to her. >> Seems like she was the only person that
00:30:03
did that. >> She's trying. And in one instance, Jim told her God and Jesus Christ were
00:30:08
consulting him about the government and President Carter, >> which is really, really scary.
00:30:12
>> Which shows you right there, he's mentally unwell. >> Not well. In another instance, Jim told
00:30:18
a coworker he, and this is really sad, he'd killed one of his dogs for speaking to him.
00:30:24
>> And he went on to explain that the dog hadn't spoken to him verbally, but had
00:30:28
communicated through his eyes in a way that Jim understood and didn't appreciate.
00:30:33
>> I can't imagine my coworker looking at me and telling me that. Like, that's chill you to your spine scary.
00:30:40
>> Now, to Jim, everybody was always out to get him in one way or another. And in
00:30:44
time, he became consumed by his desire to get back at anyone who slighted him. If he received bad customer service
00:30:51
somewhere, he would make harassing phone calls or pick at the business. If a neighbor did something he didn't like,
00:30:57
he would set up an elaborate scheme that took weeks of planning to get revenge on
00:31:01
them. And while he knew he couldn't take out his anger on the neighborhood children physically only because he
00:31:07
would get in trouble, >> that didn't stop him from enrolling his daughters in karate classes, not for
00:31:12
their own betterment. No, >> but so that he could direct them to assault the other children that lived
00:31:18
around them, >> which like if you take karate, you know, is the exact opposite of what they're
00:31:22
teaching you. >> They do an entire oath in the beginning that says that they will not use it for
00:31:26
that, >> right? >> So you're like and you're directing your children to be your little agents of
00:31:32
chaos >> to go beat children you don't like. >> To go beat children cuz you don't like
00:31:36
them. Like >> that's beyond. >> Well, and then you're making your children paras. you're continful,
00:31:43
toxic cycle. >> Things in his life took a serious downturn in 1982 when after 13 years of
00:31:49
employment, he was laid off from his job at the factory. >> Just about everyone who knew him has
00:31:54
acknowledged that this is where his life started really spiraling out of control
00:31:58
and he had done nothing to manage the stress. I mean, yeah, this is for sure where he spiraled. He was already
00:32:05
>> nothing good was coming out of this guy. Like that was he was not he was not killing it. No.
00:32:11
>> Now, rapidly running out of money and sensing her husband was on the verge of
00:32:14
a breakdown, Etna put the couple's property on the market and gently approached Jim about what to do, Jim was
00:32:20
too consumed with paranoia to be much of a help. And instead, he spent most of his time focused on his belief that the
00:32:26
factory closing was just evidence of a larger conspiracy to ruin him. And he was determined to get even with
00:32:32
everyone, telling one former coworker he was going to kill himself and quote, "Take everyone with him." Guys, you got
00:32:39
to call someone. >> Yeah. >> Like he is literally spelling it out for people around him. What is everyone
00:32:46
doing? >> That's the thing. >> Yeah. >> Is it's like he is like you just he is spelling it out. It's
00:32:53
>> all yelling there to everyone. >> Those paranoid delusions got even worse when a deal for both properties fell
00:33:00
through and Jim and Edna ended up selling their properties at a loss. To Jim, this was just further evidence of
00:33:05
the conspiracy. So, he sued his realtor. Now, when everything fell apart for them
00:33:10
in Ohio, Jim decided it was evidence of his long-standing belief that the entire
00:33:14
country was in fact on the verge of collapse. Rather than relocate to any other city or state, he picked up his
00:33:21
entire family in the spring of 1983 and moved them to Tijana. When they left Ohio, he really didn't bother to bring
00:33:28
much of their furniture or personal belongings. Instead, he just filled the car with his massive gun collection and
00:33:34
a stock a huge stock of ammunition. >> Those poor children. poor children >> to be uprooted from your already
00:33:41
insanely dark and chaotic life and then packed up in a car with a bunch of guns,
00:33:46
moved to Mexico >> where like you don't know anybody. >> They don't speak the language.
00:33:51
>> They don't speak the language any of the language >> and then your father is this terrifying
00:33:55
man who like nobody wants to be around. So you're even more isolated. >> Yeah. And it's getting worse and worse.
00:34:00
His delusions, his paranoia. So there's no shortage of, you know, irrational motives for moving the entire family to
00:34:08
Mexico in his mind. >> Of course, >> ultimately though, they only lasted three months before moving back to the
00:34:14
US. Cuz remember, he's also violently racist. Yeah. So, >> um, and they settled in the Santa Cro
00:34:20
neighborhood of San San Diego. Once they settled into their two-bedroom apartment, it didn't take long for the
00:34:26
old problems and bad habits to just crop right back up. Several neighbors recalled hearing Jim yelling at Etna,
00:34:32
the girls on multiple occasions. >> So sad. >> The one neighbor who lived next door
00:34:35
told a reporter he'd never heard the couple so much as argue. >> I think he just didn't want to get in.
00:34:40
>> I was like, "What?" >> While their new neighbors initially tried to be friendly and welcoming, they
00:34:45
became decidedly less friendly when Jim made his dislike of minorities known to everyone with an earshot. Reporter
00:34:52
Carlos Amesa said he was very anti-immigrant. He hated immigrants, especially Mexican immigrants. So that's
00:34:59
where we're sitting. >> You're a terrible person. And also, why move into immigrant communities if you
00:35:04
hate immigrants? Why are you infiltrating their safe space? >> You're infiltrating their place.
00:35:08
>> Like you can go I mean, you up and moved your family to Tijana, first of all,
00:35:12
when you're a racist piece of [ __ ] So like, make that make sense. >> And then you moved to Santa Cedro,
00:35:17
right? Santa. >> Yeah, Santa Cedro. >> That's a very well-known immigrant community, like Mexican community.
00:35:23
>> What are you doing? So go move somewhere where you'll you can spout your nastiness to other angry white people.
00:35:30
Like what do you >> or go [ __ ] yourself. >> Yeah. Or go [ __ ] yourself. >> But like why are you infiltrating their
00:35:35
community and talking [ __ ] about them, >> right? >> Like what the [ __ ] >> Jim never felt settled in California, if
00:35:42
he'd ever felt settled his entire life. >> Uh Edna said in his mind everything in
00:35:47
Ohio was done right and he could not adjust to the way things were done in California. So, he was unemployed,
00:35:53
surrounded by people he disliked because of his extreme racism, and the entire landscape was foreign to him. And in the
00:35:59
past, he probably wouldn't have had any trouble finding a job as a welder. But a
00:36:02
recent car accident had left him shaky, and that ruled out any work like that. >> And I'm sure it led to even greater
00:36:08
conspiracy. >> Exactly. Then one day, he saw a newspaper ad for a federally funded job
00:36:13
training program. It offered grants to low-income individuals interested in training to be a security guard. So, the
00:36:20
course was several weeks long, and Jim excelled at every aspect, especially the target shooting.
00:36:25
>> He did. That's >> Yeah, he was placed in the expert category. Once he'd finished the
00:36:29
training, he was granted a 2-year registration as a trained security guard in the state of California, and he set
00:36:34
about looking for work. In comparison to the training as a security guard, finding actual work was exponentially
00:36:41
harder for him. On paper, he was an ideal candidate, but as soon as he sat down in front of potential employers,
00:36:48
things would change quickly >> because he can't speak to people. >> Just a few days after completing the
00:36:53
training course, he got an interview with Bernstein Security Services. Owner Rudy Bernstein recalled, "He told me how
00:37:00
well he handled himself and how he would only work for top security firms, but he
00:37:04
was put off by his arrogance, bad attitude, and obvious lies." >> Yeah. After he left the interview,
00:37:09
Bernsteeen took measures to ensure that the candidate was not going to get the job. He wrote no in bold 4-in letters on
00:37:17
Jim's application and then traced over it again with a darker marker to make it clear.
00:37:22
>> Really making sure he took me out when I heard that. >> Jim did manage to find work with another
00:37:27
security firm nearby in Chula Vista, working the undesirable 8:00 p.m. to 2 a.m. shift.
00:37:34
>> That's pretty brutal. Uh this guy with lack of sleep is probably not a great mix either.
00:37:39
>> Well, just by himself out of post. >> And when he wasn't working, sleeping, or
00:37:42
ranting, he was shopping, buying new guns, gun parts, military uniforms, you know,
00:37:49
>> so scary. >> Despite their very limited income, Jim spent money freely. But whenever Etna
00:37:54
needed to spend money on essential items or something for their children, Jim would explode in anger. On one occasion,
00:38:01
when Enda told her husband one of the girls needed braces, he burst into the girl's bedroom, waving
00:38:08
around an Uzi. >> Oh my god. >> And shouted, "Why spend money on the girl's teeth? She'll be dead anyway."
00:38:14
>> Like, what the [ __ ] That's also just plainly telling your wife that you're going to kill.
00:38:20
>> I'm going to kill all of you. >> That's so [ __ ] scary. >> These poor [ __ ] kids.
00:38:26
>> Well, think of like how old you are when you get your first braces. You're a young teenager
00:38:31
>> and you're lit. Your dad is literally bursting into your room with an uzi shouting about how you're going to be
00:38:36
dead anyways. So, why do you need braces? >> I so hope that these girls are doing
00:38:41
okay now and like >> received the help they need because >> they >> their childhood was some of the worst I
00:38:48
can imagine. >> I can't even. >> Well, things at home were deteriorating fast. Things at work weren't going very
00:38:53
well for Jim either. His credentials and training made him a good candidate for the job. But his bosses at the security
00:38:59
company were like, "Yeah, I don't know if this guy can actually do the job because he's wild."
00:39:05
>> He also like might just shoot somebody because he wants to. >> He was edgy. He constantly seemed
00:39:10
paranoid and jumpy. His attitude was terrible. He was exploding at people. He was just being Jim Huberty, you know.
00:39:15
>> Yeah. Not somebody that you want on your property with a gun. >> No. On July 10th, 1984, he was fired
00:39:21
from the security job after his boss determined he was quote too nervous for the work. Although he reacted to his
00:39:27
firing about as well as anyone would expect, losing his job also seemed to be like a little bit of a wakeup call for
00:39:34
Jim. >> After his job loss, he started speaking a little more openly about his mental
00:39:39
health and wondering out loud whether he should seek help from a professional, which is what led him to place a call to
00:39:45
the mental health center on July 17th. Now, but when Jim didn't get the call back in a few hours, he became
00:39:51
irrationally angry and stormed out of the apartment. By that time, Etna had become frightened for Jim's safety and
00:39:58
the safety of others, and she started frantically calling mental health centers in the area, trying to locate
00:40:04
the one Jim had called that day. She intended to tell the receptionist that contrary to what he told them, he was in
00:40:10
fact seriously suicidal or dangerous, >> homicidal even, >> and hoping that would be enough to get
00:40:16
him an appointment immediately. Unfortunately, because the receptionist wrote his name down wrong, when Etna did
00:40:23
eventually land on the right mental health center, the person on the other end looked over the call log and told
00:40:28
her they hadn't had any calls from someone named Huberty, which almost like you didn't see Shuberty and say maybe
00:40:34
they wrote it down wrong. Like, come on. Come on, guys. Now, the next morning, July 18th, Jim and Etna were due in
00:40:40
traffic court related to just like a minor infraction. According to the clerk on duty that day, he was Jim was
00:40:47
pleasant and waited patiently until his name was called, never becoming agitated
00:40:52
or angry. >> Interesting. >> In fact, Jim even successfully managed to win the sympathy of the clerk, who,
00:40:58
feeling sorry that the Hubertes had to wait so long, cancelled the fine altogether.
00:41:02
>> Wow. After leaving the courthouse, Jim and Edna took the kids to the zoo where
00:41:08
they spent a few hours walking the paths looking at the animals. To Edna, Jim seemed uncharacteristically calm.
00:41:15
>> That's so scary. >> Yeah. But every now and then, he would make a comment that she said she found
00:41:20
disturbing. At one point, they stopped to watch the animals and app propose of nothing. Jim just said, "Well, society
00:41:28
had its chance." And then walked away. Oh my god, that would horrify me. Honestly, I don't even know like what
00:41:37
they would be able to do, but you have to call the police if your husband ever [ __ ] says that to you.
00:41:42
>> Like that's I suppose society had its chance. >> Like I don't even know. That's so scary.
00:41:48
>> And the fact that he was weirdly calm. >> That must have been really scary for his
00:41:52
family. >> Sad that they couldn't even actually enjoy the fact that he was calm and they
00:41:57
>> cuz they were probably, what does this mean? >> Yeah. The family arrived home in the early
00:42:02
afternoon and Edna made lunch for the girls. And when she finished cleaning up the kitchen, she went into the bedroom
00:42:06
to lay down for a little while. A few minutes later, Jim entered the bedroom wearing a full camouflage outfit and
00:42:13
carrying a large bundle wrapped in a black and white checkered outfit and he said, "I want to kiss you goodbye."
00:42:20
>> Oh god. >> When he stood up to leave the room, Edna asked where he was going and he replied,
00:42:25
"I'm going hunting. I'm going hunting people. [sighs and gasps] Did she call someone?
00:42:33
We can move forward. Okay. From the balcony of the apartment, one of their daughters watched as her father
00:42:42
loaded this bundle into the car, then pulled out the parking lot, drove the 200 or so yards down the street where he
00:42:48
pulled into the parking lot of the post office just across from the McDonald's. This was only 200 yards away from his
00:42:54
house. >> They could see it probably. The restaurant was very popular in the neighborhood and was a place parents
00:42:58
frequently bought their children to play. So that afternoon, there were about 50 people inside.
00:43:04
It was about 400 p.m. when John Arnold clocked in for his shift at McDonald's. He was standing at the register, but he
00:43:10
didn't see Jim Huberty come through the door. All he remembers was hearing his coworker, Guiermo Flores, yell, "Hey,
00:43:16
John, that guy's going to shoot you." >> Oh my god. >> Arnold turned around and saw Huberty
00:43:21
pointing a shotgun in his direction. He said he was pointing that gun right at me. He pulled the trigger, but nothing
00:43:27
happened. Then he brought it down and started messing with it. When Jim lowered the gun, John relaxed a little,
00:43:34
thinking like, "Was this just a prank? Like, what is this?" >> But it wasn't. The guy the gun had just
00:43:39
jammed. He already fiddled with the shotgun briefly before finally clearing the jam and firing it into the ceiling.
00:43:45
The noise got everyone's attention, which is when Jim pulled out his 9mm semi-automatic Uzi from the bundle he
00:43:52
was carrying and fired at 22-year-old manager Neva Kain, hitting her several times before she dropped to the ground.
00:44:00
>> Oh my god. >> Employee Albert Leo said, "I saw him come in and tell everyone to get to the
00:44:05
floor. Then he just started shooting at everyone. The people who tried to get out to run out of the McDonald's, he
00:44:10
started shooting at them." Waving his gun around furiously, he shouted, "I'm going to kill you all." He
00:44:16
then referred to everyone in the restaurant as dirty swine, telling them he'd killed many in Vietnam and he was
00:44:22
going to kill a thousand more. >> Jesus. >> He had not served in Vietnam. >> Yeah.
00:44:27
>> He tried to enlist but was deemed unfit for service. I wonder why. >> But in that moment, none of that
00:44:34
matters. >> No. After killing Neva Kain, Huberty turned and began firing through the
00:44:38
windows at the people across the street at the doughnut shop. 12-year-old Joshua Coleman and his
00:44:44
friends David Flores and Omar Hernandez had gone to the shop to get ice cream that afternoon and were walking out just
00:44:51
as he started shooting in their direction. Flores was killed immediately, walking out with his ice
00:44:56
cream. >> A 12-year-old with his friends. >> Yeah. Omar Hernandez was shot multiple
00:45:01
times and ended up dying on the ground. Joshua Coleman was hit in the chest, knocking him to the ground. Coleman was
00:45:08
panicked and terrified that if he moved, the shooter would realize he was still alive and fire at him again. So, he
00:45:14
stayed completely still, struggling to breathe. He was shot in the chest. He later said, "I needed air, and I
00:45:19
couldn't get enough. I had to take short, quick breaths." >> "Oh, God." Inside the McDonald's, Jim turned his
00:45:26
gun on the families in the play area, firing indiscriminately into the crowd of as parents just grabbed their
00:45:32
children and huddled under the stone tables. >> This is nightmare is not even the
00:45:37
correct word. >> Keith Thomas later recalled, "We got under the table and I got shot in both
00:45:42
arms." He was a kid. >> Oh my god. That afternoon, Keith had gone out to a late lunch with his best
00:45:47
friend, Matteo Herrera, and Matteo's father, Ronald. With the two boys squeezed beneath the
00:45:53
table, Ronald, the father, shielded them both with his own body. But in the end,
00:45:58
it wasn't enough. Matteo was shot and killed, and Keith was shot seven times. >> Oh my god.
00:46:04
>> But Keith credits Ronald with saving his life that day. >> Seven times. >> And that's like his best friend's father
00:46:10
saved him with his own. The thing the heroes that come out of these stories. >> Oh, it like shatters your heart.
00:46:16
>> People that literally shield others with their own. >> No one should have to do this.
00:46:20
>> No, it's there should not be such thing as a human shield. >> No. >> The first call came into San Diego 911 a
00:46:28
few minutes after the shooting started when someone dragged one of the victims, a young girl, off the sidewalk and into
00:46:34
the post office across the street. Officer Miguel Rosario said, "The call came in, if I can remember, as some type
00:46:40
of disturbance where a little girl had been shot. I had no clue what I was about to enter into. God,
00:46:45
>> the communication here is awful." >> From start to finish in [clears throat] this story,
00:46:50
>> at that time, there were two McDonald's restaurants in Santa Cro, >> one on the west side and one on the east
00:46:55
side. >> Oh [clears throat] no. >> Because there was some confusion around where the incident was taking place,
00:46:59
Rosario was dispatched to the wrong location. >> Oh my god. and didn't receive the
00:47:03
correction until he was about a block away from the east side McDonald's. As a result, emergency services were delayed
00:47:10
by anywhere between 3 and 5 minutes as the officer had to backtrack and make his way to the right location.
00:47:16
>> 3 and 5 minutes is huge eternity. >> Huge. Oh my god. >> Inside the restaurant, everything was
00:47:23
chaos. The alarms, this is for some reason this detail sent me. The alarms on the fryers and other heating elements
00:47:33
were all going off because the food was getting burned >> because it's it's just madness.
00:47:37
>> So now people are crying, screaming, and moaning in pain. And there's frier alarms going off and like other heating
00:47:44
element things just being like like just crazy. And then on top of that, whatever wasn't
00:47:51
being drowned out by the alarms was covered up over are You ready? the pop music blurring out of the portable
00:47:58
stereo that Huberty had brought with him. >> No. >> Every now and then he would fiddle with
00:48:03
the radio, changing the station to find a song he liked, and then he would start
00:48:08
firing wildly across the restaurant again. >> Oh my god, I never got to that detail.
00:48:12
>> No, >> I thought you were going to say the pop music like over the speakers. >> No, he brought his own
00:48:18
>> and would change it to a change when he didn't like a song. >> That just made me like physically ill.
00:48:24
Like that is beyond evil. An outside local reporter Carlos Amesa happened to be coming out of the post office when
00:48:33
the shooting started, making him the first reporter on the scene. >> "Oh my god,"
00:48:37
>> he said later. Before I could even realize it, I heard the whistles of shots going by my head. I hit the ground
00:48:43
so hard that I thought I'd been shot because I had blood on my face and hands. I'd actually hit my nose on the
00:48:49
pavement. >> Oh my gosh. As Carlos scrambled for cover behind the cars, Miguel uh Miguel
00:48:54
Rosarios finally arrived, pulling his patrol car into the parking lot of the post office. And remember, he was the
00:49:00
one that was sent to the wrong location >> and it's just him. >> At that point, Rosario still hadn't been
00:49:04
informed of exactly what was going on. So, he thought it might have been a robbery or other public disturbance. He
00:49:11
later said, "Walking to the post office is when I first realized something was very wrong. People were hiding behind
00:49:16
cars. They were looking towards the McDonald's." So he looked in the direction of the restaurant just in time
00:49:21
to see Jim Huberty raise the Uzi in his direction and fire. >> Oh my god. >> He was able to dive behind a truck to
00:49:29
avoid being hit. The cover gave him just enough time to radio for backup and tell
00:49:34
them, "Hey, >> get here now. >> Get the [ __ ] over here." >> To the correct McDonald's.
00:49:38
>> His call went out at 4:10 p.m. 10 minutes into the assault. And you have to think about 10 minutes. Literally,
00:49:47
honestly, set a [ __ ] timer for 10 minutes for 10 minutes. >> That is such a long time in this kind of
00:49:53
situation >> because you [clears throat] hear 10 minutes and you go 10 minutes. Like, oh,
00:49:56
I'll be there in 10 minutes. It's no big deal. Like, that sounds like whatever. Sit for 10 minutes.
00:50:01
>> 10 minutes. I set a timer at night for my mouthwash for 1 minute. >> 1 minute is so long. Like, it's crazy.
00:50:07
>> I set a timer for 2 minutes every time the girls brush their teeth. And even I'm like, "Oh my god, 2 minutes. Were
00:50:13
you supposed to be brushing [laughter] for this long? That's a long time. So 10 minutes in this 10 minutes sitting there
00:50:20
is a long time. 10 minutes in this kind of absolute nightmare scenario. >> And this man has got I don't even know
00:50:27
how many guns you said. >> Yeah. >> And how much ammunition? It's like he knows how to make his own ammunition. So
00:50:33
it probably is >> probably hundreds. He was able to get off hundreds of rounds. [sighs]
00:50:37
>> Hundreds of rounds. And a McDonald's where families went to play with their kids. And he knew that.
00:50:45
>> I so wish that >> in a in a strange way cuz we already know. I wish that he hadn't been killed.
00:50:51
And I wish that he was sitting in prison to this day. >> I do too. Just rotting.
00:50:55
>> Tortured. >> Yeah. Now later after everyone had learned the full details of the
00:50:59
massacre, several people did question why no one inside the restaurant, which I'm like, guys, like I this that makes
00:51:06
me crazy. People were questioning why no one in the restaurant had done anything
00:51:10
to try to stop him. >> What are you going to do? He has a million guns. >> And that's the thing because they're all
00:51:15
like, "Well, any attempt would have been better than nothing." >> You're going to get killed.
00:51:19
>> Exactly. And Albert Leos, somebody who was there, which it's like, "How about
00:51:23
we listen to the people that were experiencing it, right? >> Because we can all sit here on our ass
00:51:28
in our comfy safe home and be like, "Why didn't you try to bum rush him? Why didn't you try to do that? You don't
00:51:34
know what the [ __ ] you would do. You don't know what your flight fight or flight is going to do in that moment.
00:51:38
You weren't in there watching kids get shot and parents trying to save their kids and like
00:51:43
>> So many people don't realize that a lot of people's fight orflight response is
00:51:48
freeze. >> Exactly. And it's not anyone's fault. >> No, it's just what your body does.
00:51:52
>> Biology. It's just the way it is. >> But Albert Leo said there was just no way. When you have someone who's armed
00:51:59
the way he was, it's not like in the movies where someone can jump on him. There's just no way.
00:52:03
>> No. like semi-automatic and and automatic rifles like >> well and Jim Huberty had come prepared
00:52:10
that afternoon. He carried an Uzi semi-automatic uh which also an automatic or a
00:52:16
semi-automatic you're not getting a moment between these shots. Like he's able to just mow down.
00:52:21
>> It's like Call of Duty like something out of a horrible horrible action flick and it's like
00:52:27
>> isn't it what they do they use that in wars those in Wars? >> I have no idea. I'm not even going to
00:52:32
try. It's like, but they use that for like mass carnage. >> Any kind of like automatic weapon is
00:52:37
horrifying. Like it just is for like, you know, but so he was carrying an Uzi semi-automatic, a 9mm handgun, and a
00:52:45
Remington pump-action shotgun. >> Whenever one gun ran out of bullets, he would simply pull another out and start
00:52:52
firing again. >> And you also have to think he's an expert. Like he's so >> he's a gun. He can reload quick. He can
00:53:00
fix jams. cuz I'm sure so many people like would take this moment to say or back then like, "Oh, he took a minute to
00:53:06
reload." >> He probably It was probably seconds. >> Yeah. He's done this his whole life.
00:53:10
It's the only thing he's been obsessed with. >> And no, again, no one knew how long they
00:53:14
might have between breaks when he would stop to reload. So, no one wanted to take the chance to go rush at him and
00:53:21
start another shooting spree. >> Yeah, you could get yourself killed. >> Also, you're not even getting yourself
00:53:26
killed. And I'm sure these people are thinking this. He's not shooting one shot at a time. It's not just going to
00:53:31
be you going down. You standing up and rushing at him could take out everyone around you.
00:53:36
>> And so they're probably thinking in that scenario like is it worth me getting up
00:53:41
and having him mow down a whole group of kids behind me? >> That's the thing. There's kids
00:53:45
everywhere in this. >> This is awful. It's an awful situation. I can't imagine being in it. Now, once
00:53:51
crime scene technicians had processed the scene later, they determined that Huberty had managed to fire, like I
00:53:56
said, hundreds of rounds in all directions. And when he wasn't blindly firing, ranting, or listening to music,
00:54:04
he would walk through the restaurant shooting people, several of whom were already dead, just shooting them more.
00:54:10
>> And when the noise became too much, he would shout at everyone, demanding that
00:54:14
parents keep their children quiet because they were making him anxious. >> What? Like, how do you expect anybody to
00:54:22
calm their child in this situation? What the [ __ ] dude? Maria Riveria was one of
00:54:27
those parents hiding under the tables trying to keep her children quiet. She told them the bullets were just little
00:54:33
pieces of ice flying out of the broken ice machine, but she didn't think that they believed her.
00:54:37
>> No. >> She later said, "He came to our table and kicked me and I had to pretend I was
00:54:41
dead." >> Oh my god. >> He thought we were dead because there was a lot of blood around us. In the
00:54:46
end, Maria's arm was grazed by a bullet and one of her daughters was shot in the
00:54:49
leg, but all three did survive. And also in that like that is such a [ __ ] mom right there in that
00:54:57
situation to come up with something even remotely comforting instead of like this
00:55:01
man is killing everybody around us. >> It's the ice machine like >> props to that mom
00:55:06
>> that's being a mom >> that's next level. >> Now after about are you ready? 40
00:55:11
minutes >> of terror. >> Truly is shocking that almost an hour. >> It's shocking that anybody made it out
00:55:18
of this alive. >> Yeah. Some people decided to try to make a run for the emergency exit, hoping
00:55:23
that they could reach the door before he spotted them. [snorts] Cashier Wendy Flanigan recalled the girl that was at
00:55:31
the cash register with me, Maggie. She saw that I was not running and she went behind me and she was pushing me the
00:55:37
whole way as I ran. I imagined I was running through rain, she said. I felt like I was running through rain and I
00:55:44
heard bing bing bing because I believed now he was shooting with the machine gun.
00:55:47
>> Oh my god. and he was shooting at us and the bullets were ricocheting all over.
00:55:51
>> And when Maggie And then Maggie got really heavy and she was keeping me from running. So she slipped from my arm and
00:55:58
I ran down the stairs into a closet and she never came >> like oh think these are like young girls working
00:56:06
these registers. Wendy managed to reach the emergency exit on her own, but when she hit the door, she discovered it had
00:56:13
been locked by the management, who feared the employees might steal food if they had an unmonitored exit.
00:56:19
>> You got to be [ __ ] kidding me. >> I hope some [ __ ] came out of this. >> You got to be [ __ ] kidding me.
00:56:24
>> So, thinking fast, Wendy turned and ran through the door that led to a small supply room at the bottom of a short
00:56:29
flight of stairs where several others were also hiding. >> Okay. Outside the supply room, they
00:56:34
could hear their coworker, Albert Leos, get shot five or six times, including two serious wounds in his arm and leg.
00:56:42
Huberty only stopped shooting Leos when he ran out of ammunition and had to return to the counter where he'd left
00:56:48
his supply. In that moment, Leos used the opportunity to drag himself to the supply room door. And then he dragged
00:56:55
himself down the flight of stairs where the other people were hiding. Despite how seriously he was injured, he knew if
00:57:01
he made any noise, he was going to give away their position. So, he bit down on a rolled up rag and used shoelaces as
00:57:08
tourniquets on his arms and legs. Wow. Now, having spent nearly an hour trapped in the restaurant with this absolute
00:57:17
maniac, the remaining survivors couldn't understand why after having shot through
00:57:22
the windows and killing people outside on the street, the police hadn't shown up to stop him.
00:57:26
>> Like, where are they? This must have been like cuz sitting there and having this happen for so long, you're like
00:57:33
where are they? Like where are the people that are supposed to save us? Like I don't understand this. Throughout
00:57:38
the late 1970s and early 80s, Americans had watched their local police departments become much more militarized
00:57:44
as well and heavily armed with militaryra weapons supposedly to prevent or stop incidents like this. Yes.
00:57:52
>> And yet there they were trapped inside with puberty and there was no sign of law enforcement to be seen at least as
00:57:58
far as they knew. >> Right. >> In reality though, which this is the reality, there was a heavy presence
00:58:04
outside police presence, but their attempts to intervene kept getting hindered by several factors. For one
00:58:10
thing, the windows were covered with a tinted film, making it difficult for anyone outside to see in.
00:58:16
>> Oh man. That visibility was further hampered by the fact that after Huberty fired through the windows, the double
00:58:22
paneed glass didn't shatter. It just cracked into like a spiderweb pattern, making [clears throat] it almost
00:58:28
impossible to see inside. [snorts] >> Also challenging was their physical location.
00:58:33
>> Although it surely wasn't planned that way. The McDonald's was all glass on three sides and Huberty could see
00:58:39
through all of them, >> right? So, anytime one of the officers tried to get close to the building, he
00:58:44
would see them and unleash a torrent of semi-automatic gunfire at them. This not
00:58:49
only put the responding officers at risk, but everyone else who was still pinned down outside the restaurant when
00:58:55
the shooting started. >> Yeah. >> Eventually, the SDPD called in fire trucks to position around the perimeter
00:59:01
to block the pedestrians. This allowed them to remove the wounded from the scene, but the trucks like outside the
00:59:08
scene, but trucks took heavy damage cuz he was just firing into them. >> Yeah. >> And at least one fireman was shot in the
00:59:13
process. >> Now, after an hour, the San Diego Police SWAT team had arrived at the scene. And
00:59:18
I was like, >> an hour? >> An hour. >> You brought the SWAT team in after an hour.
00:59:24
>> The SWAT team should be called should have been called immediately. They took
00:59:27
up their positions with sniper Chuck Foster at top the room of the post office across the restaurant, the roof,
00:59:33
excuse me, of the post office. Um, he later said, "I got up on top of the room along with my spotter Barry Bennett at
00:59:39
about 5:02 p.m." I was like, "Um, what?" Cuz this all started around 42 p.m. >> He said, "Once I got up onto the post
00:59:51
office roof, I could look down upon the McDonald's. I could see a few bodies lying inside the restaurant. I could see
00:59:56
a few times when the shooter was firing out towards the street, towards the fire
01:00:00
trucks, the shooter within the McDonald's had a lot of advantages where he was at.
01:00:04
>> Yeah. >> As soon as he was in position on the roof, Foster had the same problems that
01:00:09
the officer on the ground had. The windows were both tinted, heavily cracked, he just couldn't see anything.
01:00:14
Under those conditions, there was a high likelihood that if he took a shot, Foster could have missed or hit one of
01:00:20
the people inside. Yeah. >> Also, the officers outside the restaurant knew very little about what
01:00:25
was actually happening inside the restaurant. And they thought that if there was more than one shooter, which
01:00:30
they thought there was considering how many shots were being fired, they said taking one out might prompt the other
01:00:36
one to kill everyone else inside cuz they also didn't know if this was like a hostage situation. And they were like,
01:00:42
>> "If we kill one, that might negate any hope that we have of getting anyone else
01:00:47
out." >> Right? This is an impossible situation. >> It is. Now, after about 15 more minutes
01:00:52
of holding in position, Chuck Foster finally saw Huberty walk to the front of the restaurant and hop up on the
01:00:58
counter. From his position, it looked like Jim was reloading his guns, but Foster could only see him from the waist
01:01:04
down and didn't have a clear shot. He later said it was impossible to see inside the McDonald's through those
01:01:10
windows. I didn't get a chance to see him at all until just before shooting him.
01:01:14
>> Wow. >> The only reason I could see inside was because his gunshots shattered a double
01:01:18
door of safety glass. Chuck saw Huberty get off the counter and take a few steps towards the front
01:01:23
doors, which had been blown out entirely. Worried that he might not get another chance, he drew in a deep
01:01:29
breath. And as soon as Jim appeared through the broken glass of the front door, he fired a single shot that ripped
01:01:36
right through Hubert's heart, killing him instantly. Wow. At 5:17 p.m., after a full 77 minutes of carnage and
01:01:46
complete terror, the massacre inside the Santa Cedro McDonald's had finally come
01:01:51
to an end. >> 77 minutes. >> 77 minutes. >> That has to be one of the longest shootings.
01:01:59
>> I can't imagine this. In that time, Jim Huberty had murdered 21 people, many of them children,
01:02:08
[sighs and gasps] and injured nearly two dozen others. And those who managed to survive this whole thing, having escaped
01:02:15
with their lives, would suffer from profound post-traumatic stress disorder. >> Absolutely. Decades,
01:02:22
>> probably for the rest of their lives. >> Oh, I can't even imagine. >> And also, there are children suffering
01:02:28
PTSD from this, like who are going to have to grow up with this. Like truly, >> that's why like this time of year when I
01:02:36
think about like fireworks and that kind of thing and just >> obviously like it's a a thing that
01:02:40
happens, but I just feel for people who are triggered by that because that has got to send you
01:02:47
>> into such a catastrophic state. >> That sound. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that's I can't imagine surviving
01:02:54
this and then hearing fireworks >> and hearing fireworks. Especially when like I think it's so annoying and I
01:02:59
don't care how I come off. I feel ex I know exactly what you're going to say and I feel the same way.
01:03:02
>> After the 4th of July, cut the [ __ ] >> All done. >> Cut the [ __ ] When people start doing
01:03:06
them on random week nights at like 11 p.m. >> You're an [ __ ] >> You're an [ __ ] And that's just how I
01:03:12
feel. >> Literally care. >> I'm like that. I just think you're an [ __ ] if you do that.
01:03:18
>> Like truly. And especially when people start it weeks earlier or they do it for
01:03:23
weeks after 4th of July. Like get it together. There's a designated day. Yeah. >> And you do I realize the world is not
01:03:31
like fully, you know, a safe space for everyone and can't cater to everyone's, you know, triggers or whatever the hell
01:03:37
anybody wants to say. But there are certain things we can do that are just really easy to do and it's like
01:03:45
>> do your fireworks on the 4th of July. >> Come on. Honestly, you just don't need
01:03:49
to do them. >> Think about this this year. Like [laughter] this year Yeah. Just think
01:03:54
about this and thinking about somebody who lived through this and then 2 weeks after 4th of July someone decides to out
01:04:00
of [ __ ] nowhere in the middle of the night shoot off fireworks a couple houses down.
01:04:04
>> Not only >> and what that would do to someone >> because also you have to think of how
01:04:08
many people at this point in life and where we are have lived through this. >> So way more people have lived through
01:04:17
this and like you really do need to take that into consideration. into consideration,
01:04:22
>> which I feel like a lot of >> It's worth It's worth saying. >> I feel like a lot of our listeners are
01:04:26
just >> I know I'm sure we pissed off a couple people. >> I'm sure we got a couple people that are
01:04:30
pissed off, but honestly, it's just it's just the way it is. But I think most of
01:04:34
our listeners right now, I think you guys listening are the kind of people that are considerate and think of those
01:04:40
things and also don't do that stuff. I'm sure you know you're always gonna get people, but just if you are one of those
01:04:46
people that loves to shoot off fireworks a few weeks after the Fourth of July, just think about this.
01:04:50
>> Yeah. Think take a second guess. >> Just think if you decide to do it anyway, that's that's on you, but like
01:04:55
think >> if you decide to do it anyway, that kind of sucks. [laughter] And like I feel
01:04:58
like we're not as close as I thought we were, [snorts] but >> like let's be friends and just all agree
01:05:02
not to do that. >> Yeah. Now, once Huberty was dead, the survivors came running out of the
01:05:09
building in all directions. Not towards police or any other members of law enforcement, just away from the [ __ ]
01:05:14
building as fast as they could. >> It was only after they'd managed to wrangle the survivors and get the
01:05:19
wounded to the hospital that the STBD finally started to understand the scope of what happened here. Cuz remember,
01:05:26
they still don't know what the [ __ ] was going on. >> They're like, "Is there still a
01:05:29
hostage?" Miguel Rosario recalled, "Nobody knew that this guy was in there by himself and just arbitrarily shooting
01:05:35
people." >> Cuz why would your mind even think that? >> Well, and especially at this time.
01:05:39
>> Exactly. It wasn't >> from outside the restaurant. All they knew was that someone was shooting
01:05:42
inside. So, they naturally thought it was a robbery or a hostage situation. And that was really the most shocking
01:05:48
element of the story. Although they've become obviously tragically common now, which is horrific and shame on all of us
01:05:57
for it. >> In 1984, mass shootings were exceedingly rare. So much so, in fact, that law
01:06:04
enforcement didn't recognize it when it happened in Santa Cro. Jim Huberty hadn't gone to McDonald's to rob anyone
01:06:11
or make some kind of political statement, even by taking hostages. He'd gone there for the sole purpose of
01:06:16
killing as many people as humanly possible before being taken out by the police. And he did exactly that.
01:06:22
>> He sure did. >> Police officers and crime scene technicians worked through the night to
01:06:27
process the scene and identify the bodies. According to the coroner, 13 of the victims died immediately upon being
01:06:34
shot, while the rest likely died within a few minutes of being struck down. Because so many of the victims were
01:06:39
children and didn't have identification on them. Staff members from the coroner's office were forced to use
01:06:45
photographs of the victims from the shoulders up. >> Oh my god. >> To show the mass of people who'd
01:06:50
assembled outside the office looking for their loved ones. By the following day,
01:06:54
they'd managed to identify all of the victims. I'm going to read them out. Elsa Herinda Borboa Fiero was 19. Neva
01:07:03
Denise Kaine was 22. Michelle Deianne Karncross was 18. Maria Elena Cole Monero Silva was 19. Gloria Lopez
01:07:12
Gonzalez, 22. Ble Reagan Herrera, 31. Matteo Herrera, 11. Pauline Aino Lopez, 21. Margarita Padilla, 18. Claudia
01:07:24
Perez, nine. >> Nine. >> Ada Velasquez Victoria was 69. Jose Ruben Lozano Perez was 19. Carlos Reyes
01:07:34
was 8 months. >> Oh my god. >> Jackie Lyn Wright Reyes was 18. Victor Maxmillian Rivera was 25. Ariseli Vuelas
01:07:45
Vargas was 31. Hugo Lewis Velasquez, excuse me, was 45. Lawrence Herman Verslus was 62. David Flores Delgado was
01:07:57
11. Omar Alonzo Hernandez was 11. And Miguel Victoria Ouyoa was 74 years old. such like a vast
01:08:09
>> range of ages there. Like people >> 8 months to 74. >> 8 months. Like literally just starting
01:08:14
your [ __ ] time on this earth >> and like 69 and 74 and you make it that long in your life and this [ __ ]
01:08:23
>> is the one that ends your life. >> Yeah. >> Like that's just so cruel. >> And to be looking at people crying and
01:08:28
begging for their lives and just indiscriminately shoot them. seeing parents trying to shield their crying
01:08:33
children and shoot them. Anyways, >> you're shooting babies. >> You're shooting 11 and 12y olds. You're
01:08:40
shooting parents. >> Jim Huberty had nothing inside of him. >> He was an empty vessel.
01:08:45
>> Like truly an empty vessel. Like he was just nothing would have made him stop.
01:08:51
It really wouldn't. >> When the news broke, it shocked everyone from one end of the country to the
01:08:56
other. Um although it was it has unfortunately been surpassed in number by others since at the time the Santa
01:09:05
massacre was the worst mass shooting in American history and most people found it impossible to understand how such a
01:09:11
thing could happen which >> I wish we could say now >> that that's the same thing that happens
01:09:18
now that everyone can't imagine this happening. >> Um however those who knew Jim Huberty
01:09:23
weren't nearly as surprised. A former neighbor told a reporter, "He came across to me as cold. He looked like
01:09:29
your average guy, except for his facial expressions. I never saw a smile on him."
01:09:34
>> Now, another person who wasn't entirely surprised by the shooting was Jim's wife, Edna.
01:09:39
>> I wonder if they like heard it from their apartment. >> That's what I wonder.
01:09:42
>> They had to have. Yeah. But while being very well aware of Jim's long struggle
01:09:48
with his poor mental health, his inability to manage his rage, and the full extent of his decomposition in the
01:09:53
day before the accident, Edna would go on to unsuccessfully sue the McDonald's Corporation a few years later.
01:10:00
>> You got to be [ __ ] kidding me. alleging that quote, "No, >> her deceased husband had been consuming
01:10:07
copious amounts of McDonald's chicken nuggets in the days, weeks, and months leading up to the shooting."
01:10:15
>> To blame this atrocity >> on chicken nuggets >> on overconumption of chicken nuggets
01:10:22
>> when you know >> is diabolical. >> And especially, >> you know who that man was.
01:10:26
>> You know right well who that man was. >> Always been that way. copious amounts of
01:10:32
chicken nuggets or not. >> Yeah, >> that's all that's all I'm going to say. >> We've already given you like how we feel
01:10:39
about like Edna not leaving or whatever. Like we've said >> we've sympathized. >> We've sympathized and I will continue to
01:10:46
sympathize and empathize with her. >> Not on this >> on this. No. No, babe. I'm not
01:10:51
empathizing with you. You're not blaming it on chicken nuggets. You're going to have to You're going to have to excuse
01:10:57
me on this one. I'm not empathizing with the chicken nuggets. I can't imagine being a surviving victim or the vict the
01:11:04
victim of a the family member of a victim and hearing that this woman blamed it on chicken nuggets
01:11:10
>> saying that chicken nuggets made him do this. No, >> you have to be [ __ ] kidding me.
01:11:14
>> She said that it contributed to his disordered mind. >> It didn't. >> He was already there. He had already
01:11:19
said a million times to a million different people that he was going to kill a lot of people.
01:11:23
>> He had been that way from childhood. >> And that is no fault of hers. But don't
01:11:28
blame it on chicken nuggets. >> That's wild. >> Because that really trivializes it.
01:11:33
>> It really does. >> And it makes it not his fault suddenly. >> Yep. >> And that's wild to do.
01:11:38
>> It absolutely is. >> Now, while most people wondered what had caused him to go on such a shocking
01:11:43
rampage, the public was equally frustrated with local law enforcement. And everyone wanted to know why and how
01:11:48
he was able to continue killing people for well over an hour before police intervened.
01:11:53
>> That was a long time. >> 77 minutes. And for them to only get SWAT there like an hour late, that's
01:11:59
>> that I don't get either. I'll never understand that. To throw a a sniper on a roof an hour later.
01:12:05
>> No. >> What are you doing? >> Like what are you doing? >> He could have been stopped earlier.
01:12:09
>> In truth, it seems there were several important factors that obviously did definitely hindered them from getting to
01:12:15
him sooner. But the initial error in dispatching and the presence of a single officer to a to the heavy tinting on the
01:12:22
gr on the glass like to the spidering on the glass like all these things contributed to this allowing being
01:12:30
allowed to go on for far too long. >> Mhm. >> But still the event did go on to influence police procedure with regards
01:12:37
to incidents of mass shootings and other acts of terrorism. changing everything from the language used in communication
01:12:43
between agencies because no one labeled this a mass shooting at first >> to the surveillance tools used and even
01:12:49
the scale and scope of weapons carried by all officers. >> Now, in the wake of the massacre, the
01:12:54
community struggled over what to do with the building. >> I know >> some wanted it torn down completely
01:12:59
while others thought it should remain. In the end, the building was demolished and a permanent memorial was installed
01:13:06
in 1990. I think this was the best thing to do. I think that's what I would have
01:13:09
preferred too. >> The memorial consists of 21 hexagonal white marble pillars, each bearing the
01:13:15
name of a victim. In his statement to the press at the unveiling of the memorial, designer Roberto Valdez said,
01:13:22
"The 21 hexagons represent each person that died, and they are different heights representing the v variety of
01:13:28
ages and races of the people involved in the massacre. They are bonded together in the hopes that the community in a
01:13:35
tragedy like this will stick together like they did." Wow, that's really beautiful. I That gave me chills.
01:13:41
>> Yeah, I think that was the best thing they could have done for that location and what that was.
01:13:48
>> I mean, what can you do other than that? >> Yeah, it's it's a horrific story.
01:13:53
>> It is. >> But again, I think it's one that needs to be told. One, to make sure those
01:13:58
people are remembered. >> Yep. and two to really hammer in that mental health care and treatment
01:14:06
for mental health is we can't ever get too good with it, man. And we're nowhere near improving.
01:14:13
>> We're nowhere near it. So, it's like we need to keep improving. And also, people
01:14:17
need to say [ __ ] when people are saying stuff. [snorts] I know it's hard sometimes.
01:14:24
I realize that people are like, I don't want to sound like a crazy person calling and say this. I don't want to
01:14:28
get somebody's life ruined. I don't want to do this. Like I get >> when people are saying the things that
01:14:33
Jim Huberty is saying, there's no such thing as overreacting to some of those things.
01:14:37
>> Anonymously just anonymously say, "Hey, I don't know what's going to happen here. I don't know if he was serious,
01:14:42
but he said this really concerning thing." >> Yeah, >> you could be saving a lot of people.
01:14:46
>> You absolutely could. >> If you ever get a chance to, please do that. >> Please do. Honestly. All right. I am
01:14:52
>> We need a fun We need the funnest effect. >> I'm really looking for a good one. Wow.
01:14:58
This one, I don't know if I would call it fun, but it's something. >> People once used corn cobs instead of
01:15:08
toilet paper because they were soft, easy to hold, and there were a lot of them. [laughter]
01:15:17
>> I love the fact there were a lot of them. >> There were a lot of them. >> There was so much cone.
01:15:21
>> Just [laughter] cone. You could use it to wipe your butt. It has the juice. [laughter]
01:15:29
>> I have to go now. >> That's crazy. >> I have to go now. >> That is a pretty fun fact.
01:15:35
>> I have never heard that in my life and I'm not quite sure if I'm better for it.
01:15:39
>> I feel like we're all better for it to be honest. >> That's a crazy one. >> I think we are.
01:15:43
>> All right, guys. Be kind to each other. >> Think about fireworks this year. >> Yeah.
01:15:49
>> And if somebody says something to you that is so dark and chilling that it rots you to your core, tell someone.
01:15:56
>> [laughter] >> That's a great way of explaining that >> and we hope you keep listening
01:16:00
>> and we hope you >> keep it weird >> weird but not so weird that you get rotted to your core and you don't say
01:16:07
anything. >> Yeah. >> Bye >> bye. [music] >> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music]
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