00:00:00
Hey, weirdos. I'm Elena. >> I'm Ash. I'm Aliza. And this is a very special Morbid.
00:00:19
Hey-o. Hey-o. We have Aliza Kelly on the podcast again. >> Yay! Yay! So excited to be here. So excited to be
00:00:28
here with you both. >> It is always a treat when you're here. We always have so much fun. It is always
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so fascinating. >> was just going to say we're [laughter] having a pizza party. We have pizza. We
00:00:37
have buffalo dip somewhere that we didn't even take out yet. Yeah, I know. We'll revisit that after. Okay. Okay.
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You guys might remember Aliza was on the show we did Stars Over Salem. And Aliza
00:00:47
gave us all of the insights on everybody's charts that was involved in that whole hysteria. We went deep into
00:00:54
it. Go revisit that episode cuz it's fascinating. We were just like jaws on the floor the whole time. We just
00:01:00
relistened to some of that and I was like, "Damn, that was a good episode." It's so fun. And today we're going to be
00:01:06
doing Stars Over Whitechapel. Which is Elena's magnum opus. Yeah, this is what I've been waiting for. Yes. Yes. Yep.
00:01:14
And as I was saying before we started here, I think that this might be the thing that solves it.
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>> I think so. It could be. It's not working from all the other systems, right? It's been over
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100 It's like 140 years. >> Yeah. Almost, right? >> Exactly. And that's the thing cuz a lot
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of people think that they figured this out. A lot of people think that this has been solved.
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>> Insert Elena's rant. Yeah. >> [laughter] >> And the thing is, I don't If you didn't
00:01:42
listen to our episode with Tobias Forge, >> Our very first one. Yeah. No, no, our
00:01:48
second one. Sorry. Our most recent one where we talked about Skalita. I go on a pretty sizable rant
00:01:54
>> [laughter] >> about why they did not figure out who Jack the Ripper is with this
00:01:58
quote-unquote DNA. So what we're going to do right now is I'm going to insert I'm not going to. Mikey's going to
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insert that clip of me explaining why the DNA is not solving this case. It is not solved. It is not Aaron Kosminski.
00:02:11
Not I don't believe it at least. So here's the rant just to remind you guys. So, here's the thing.
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I don't think they have found Jack the Ripper. Not one part of me thinks it. In fact, um there's many reasons for that.
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The fact that this has been a thing that comes around every few years is a big red flag to me and it's the same person
00:02:33
bringing it around every few years and not really updating any of the actual info.
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Uh that shawl that they're claiming they have this DNA from is a shawl that they're claiming is found was found at
00:02:44
Catherine Eddowes' crime scene. Um one, they have no way of knowing that. The only way of knowing that would be if it
00:02:51
was among the exhaustive list of her items that were found at um on and around her at the crime scene that is
00:02:57
well documented and it is nowhere. There is nowhere that says there's like an 8-ft long, really expensive shawl that
00:03:05
might actually even be a table runner found on her person. Nowhere. So if we don't have that,
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then how do we know that this thing is hers and how do we know that it was found at the crime scene? Here's your
00:03:16
answer. We don't. So there's a big giant hole of doubt that has already been thrust through this entire thing. Uh I
00:03:25
don't think it was found at the crime scene. I think she would have sold it at one point. I don't think she would have
00:03:29
held on to that kind of shawl. >> [music] >> I mean, there's all kinds of stories of
00:03:33
her selling, you know, shoes earlier in the day and selling anything that was on
00:03:37
her. Uh it just doesn't make sense to me. I don't I don't buy that one at all. Furthermore, the story of this whole
00:03:44
thing is that uh Sergeant Amos Simpson was the one who is said to have taken the shawl from the crime scene, a
00:03:52
supposed blood-soaked shawl he took from the crime scene. One, that would have been a immense risk to do that. And two,
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I think we all need to remember what I said a thousand times during our Jack the Ripper series, we can't really
00:04:08
comprehend how dark these crime scenes were. There was no light. We're going by candlelight. You're telling me that this
00:04:15
man plucked a blood-soaked shawl from a crime scene and just brought it home for
00:04:20
his wife? I don't buy that. Also, there's the fact that Amos Simpson was a metro cop. He was a metropolitan police
00:04:28
officer. Mitre Square where Catherine Eddowes was found, that is London PD jurisdiction. He has no business being
00:04:35
there and even if he is there, he has no business at that crime scene. So that gives me pause. The DNA.
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The DNA, we don't even know what it is. It might be blood. It might be semen. They have no definitive answer for that.
00:04:52
So that 100% match, I don't believe. They don't even know what the actual DNA source is for this. And also, there is
00:05:02
no evidence of him leaving semen at scenes. Of course he can depart from his pattern. Of course that's happened
00:05:11
before. I am fully willing to admit that and I'm willing to accept that if there's other pieces of evidence along
00:05:16
with it. But the fact that he never did this and there was never evidence of any
00:05:20
classic sexual assault or rape at any of these scenes, it was really violence and mutilation.
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It doesn't really fit with the pattern. And once again, I'm willing to admit that a pattern can be broken if you give
00:05:33
me other evidence to tell me that that's so. I just don't see it here. The DNA itself, it's mitochondrial DNA. That's
00:05:40
what they're not telling you in any of these things. This is not straight-up DNA. This is mitochondrial DNA. It can
00:05:46
eliminate a suspect, but it cannot identify a suspect absolute. Anyone in the maternal line of this DNA match can
00:05:54
also be the person. This is can be thousands of people. Thousands of people in London can match this DNA.
00:06:01
So that's not good enough for me. That's not identifying. That is you can eliminate. And also, just to put a pin
00:06:08
on this, the researcher who has put this forward is Russell Edwards. Uh he doesn't have
00:06:15
a track record that I'm willing to follow here, really. Um I'm good I will of course give benefit of the doubt if
00:06:21
he can provide more evidence, but he also claimed once and so did his team that they found
00:06:29
um a victim of Ian Brady and Myra Hindley that has been missing for decades and decades, Keith Bennett. Uh
00:06:36
and his family has been looking for his body on those moors forever and hoping to find his body on those moors. And it
00:06:42
was really [ __ ] up that his team basically announced on social media that they had found Keith Bennett and they
00:06:47
hadn't. Uh so that upsets me. That makes me question it. Of course, one massive,
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monumental mistake doesn't mean that you can never do anything good in your life.
00:06:57
So if he can provide more evidence that says this is a 100% DNA match, which I don't believe he can, then I'm willing
00:07:04
to listen to it. But no, Aaron Kosminski is not Jack the Ripper. Mic drop. >> [laughter]
00:07:12
>> So that's why In conclusion I need the copy and paste file of that. I need to also just like
00:07:20
insert the [laughter] rant. And various other audio moments. >> We'll play it for you after this because
00:07:26
I I was pretty hyped up during that. I was like, let me explain Rightfully [laughter] so. It makes sense.
00:07:31
Everything you said makes sense. Yeah, cuz I think it's recently like surfaced again and recent I'm pretty sure like
00:07:36
Australia heard about it recently. I like that this random news station in Australia reported that it's been
00:07:44
solved. And so it's gone around TikTok, all over the place. I'm getting tagged in it, which I appreciate so much that
00:07:50
you guys tag me in anything Jack the Ripper related. Keep doing that. Love it. >> Oh yeah. Uh but I figured I should
00:07:55
probably let you know that cuz everyone's like, "What do you think about it?" I'm like, "Let me tell you
00:07:58
what I think about it." [laughter] Well, this is very interesting because I it's
00:08:02
reminding me of one of the astrology phenomenon that comes up periodically, which is that there's always, you know,
00:08:10
every so often at with some sort of cadence, there's some big exposé on, "Oh my god, astrology is wrong." Yep. There
00:08:19
is the signs have moved. They are not where they were >> Yep. 1,500 years ago. Like all of these silly
00:08:27
astrologers haven't considered the precession of the equinox. And every time I get tagged and there was a big
00:08:35
one in the New York Times that came out and people were like, "Well, what do you
00:08:37
think of this?" And I'm like, "It's the same It's the same article from three years ago.
00:08:41
>> [laughter] >> They do and they keep not talking to any astrologers and they keep sort of like
00:08:46
regurgitating it and then the headlines are always breaking news. >> And that's exactly what it is. It's not
00:08:51
a thing. And it's like and you get why that like the headline would be grabbing. It's
00:08:57
like, "Wow, we figured like It's clickbait. We've we've broken this wide open." And it's like, "Whoa." Yeah. So I
00:09:02
mean, I when I first saw all the headlines that were like, "DNA has solved Jack the Ripper case." I was
00:09:07
like, "Fuck yeah. Let's go." >> Yeah. And then I read it and I said, >> I said, "Get the And then I looked up
00:09:12
who did it and I said, "Oh, wait." [laughter] This guy again. Yeah, this guy. I've
00:09:17
seen his name before. So just so you guys know, I don't think it's been solved. I think we I think we can solve
00:09:24
it. Tonight. I think we're going to solve it tonight. Yes, personally. So stay tuned for this.
00:09:29
>> [laughter] >> And that the next clickbait is Jack the Ripper solved through astrology.
00:09:33
[laughter] Solved by astrology. We just combined the two. >> [laughter] >> Eat your hat, New York Times.
00:09:40
A new article that can go everywhere. [laughter] Combining the two [ __ ] articles.
00:09:46
So yeah, this is I'm really excited to talk about this. Everybody who listens to Morbid knows how obsessed I am with
00:09:52
the Jack the Ripper case and that I think I officially became a ripperologist during our research of it.
00:09:58
I think actually one of our listeners, and I don't know if I've mentioned this, sent me a pin that says Ripperologist.
00:10:04
>> And it's on one of your jackets. >> on my favorite leather jacket that I wear all the time. So, thank you for
00:10:08
that if you sent it. >> Also made I actually multiple people made you a certificate, right?
00:10:13
>> them, yes. I need to buy I need to print them out and put them up on the Just put
00:10:16
them everywhere. Like a like Harvard, you know, doctorates and everything. [laughter] I'll just put them up.
00:10:21
Well, next to your letter. >> Yeah. My the the framed hello letter. Yeah, see? Perfect. We got to display it
00:10:27
all. >> It's a little spot. Yeah, love it. That would Hey, that would give me some
00:10:31
motivation. There you go. Um but yeah, so we love this case is just fascinating. It's the and I'll say it
00:10:37
again, it's the number one unsolved case unsolved case in the world. I mean it's
00:10:43
it really is. And it fit with so many There's so many canonical victims for this one. It's so brutal. The I mean the
00:10:50
in-fighting between the police departments. It's got everything and Yeah, you have it all. You really do.
00:10:56
Yeah. So, I think what we'll do is we'll probably just we're going to start going
00:11:00
through the five canonical victims Mary Ann Polly Nichols, Annie Chapman, Elizabeth Stride, Catherine Eddowes, and
00:11:07
Mary Jane Kelly, which is the crescendo. Yeah. >> Yeah. And I think it it's definitely
00:11:13
Mary Jane Kelly is considered the last canonical victim. And a lot of people will say like they think that it kept
00:11:19
going. I don't think it kept going. No, I think we talked about that on our original coverage. Where do you go from
00:11:25
from there? That's the thing. Yeah, that's it. It makes sense that it would end there. Mhm. You know? Yes. Yeah.
00:11:30
Though, depending on who you might have think was Jack the Ripper, that could change.
00:11:36
>> Yes. >> Okay, well, see I'm already excited. >> [laughter] >> I'm already excited for this.
00:11:41
>> Maybe you just change your approach. >> Ooh, okay. >> Okay. >> Maybe you switch it up. I like that.
00:11:46
>> Yeah. You've had enough of that kind of brutality. Now you go into more of a like a new one. Psychological. Yeah.
00:11:53
Maybe maybe. Try something new. Dip your toe in a different pond. See, maybe this
00:11:58
is it. Maybe astrology is going to solve this. I mean it's a different angle. It's a different angle.
00:12:04
>> see it come from this angle a lot. >> [laughter] >> No, it hasn't to be honest. If we're going to pretend
00:12:09
mitochondrial DNA is solving this, then why not astrology? Astrology is more >> [laughter]
00:12:15
>> is more definitive for identifying things than mitochondrial DNA is. So, I think so.
00:12:20
>> [laughter] >> There you go. All right, so who who are we going to start with?
00:12:24
>> So, let's start with Mary Ann Nichols, Polly Nichols. >> Our first canonical victim.
00:12:29
>> So, I should note, you know, and this is similar to what we had also acknowledge
00:12:35
with Salem, is that we don't have a lot of time. And in astrology, the best way to
00:12:42
calculate a birth chart is date, time, and location. So, we are missing that very critical time piece, which is going
00:12:49
to tell us rising sign. It's going to show us which houses all of these different planets fall in.
00:12:56
The houses show us sort of the themes of life. They also can help us understand timing. So, we're missing that piece.
00:13:04
So, in a lot of the in the majority of the birth charts that we're going to pull, unless we had a very specific hour
00:13:10
for something, we're going to look at the planets and the relationships that the planets are making. We're not going
00:13:15
to be able to discern the rising sign from these. That makes sense. Yeah. So, Mary Ann Nichols was born August 26,
00:13:23
1845 in London, England. She is was. Is. Is. Yeah. I always say is with a chart because
00:13:33
the chart is still living. I was Yeah. I just listened to the episode where you went over that and I was like that is I
00:13:38
love that concept so much. Like it goes on. And another really interesting thing is that and we'll
00:13:45
probably see this in some of our in in some of these characters today is that when somebody comes back into the
00:13:52
zeitgeist or the collective psyche, their chart is being activated. >> Right. So, we'll often see that like
00:13:59
even albums that are released after an artist's death or something, you'll look and you'll be like, oh, they're having
00:14:04
their third or fourth Saturn return at that time. Like their chart is still being activated and still experiencing
00:14:10
the passage of time and energy to it. >> That's so wild. That's really existential. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's
00:14:16
really beautiful also. >> it. It's it's a really cool way of exploring legacy. And a lot of these,
00:14:23
you know, Mary Ann Nichols, Polly Nichols as the first person who was murdered in in the
00:14:31
canonical five, the first victim of this, um there are so many interesting things that
00:14:38
I say this thing called tank, which means there are no coincidences. I like that. I love that. This is this is a
00:14:43
case of tank. Okay. So, she was is a Virgo sun and a Gemini moon. So, these are two Mercurial ruled
00:14:55
placements. Um both Virgo and Gemini report to the planet Mercury, which is communication,
00:15:01
it's language, it's storytelling, it's our understanding of things. So, you know,
00:15:08
not knowing all of her chart without that time of birth, what we can sort of discern here is that she was smart. She
00:15:16
was interested in things. She was curious. Um she was somebody who also was very
00:15:21
discerning. She was she had the sort of extrovert, introvert, in and out kind of quality to
00:15:28
her where she could be sort of like very blabber-mouthy, say the wrong thing at the very wrong time, but then also could
00:15:35
pull it back and be like, wait, but I have to get my life together. I got to get organized. So, there was this sort
00:15:39
of like back and forth quality. And it was all very about much about her communication and being understood. Now,
00:15:46
the reason that this is incredibly fascinating is because number one, she's not the only person
00:15:53
who is a Virgo sun and Gemini moon here. Interesting. Wow. And the other piece of
00:15:58
this is that she was murdered when the sun was in Virgo and the moon was in Gemini. Shut up. Wow.
00:16:06
Oh, that's weird. Yeah. There are no coincidences. Like it's like what are the odds of that?
00:16:12
She truly establishes this story, not just in her birth chart and who she is, but also in
00:16:21
in the chart of her death. And the chart of her death is also the chart of the first murder. It's the chart that
00:16:29
establishes the Jack the Ripper story. Wow. So, these two like it's almost like, you
00:16:35
know, and this is obviously a little out there for some people, but it's almost like we don't have Jack the Ripper if we
00:16:41
didn't have Polly Nichols. And it's almost like perhaps there was something about her Mhm. and their
00:16:49
encounter in particular Mhm. that set off this killing spree that this person went on.
00:16:56
>> Right. Because how else could it be that this person I mean she was murdered just
00:17:00
a few days before her or after her birthday. She was murdered on August 31st, 1888. She was born on August 26th,
00:17:08
just a few days after her 43rd birthday. While she was having her so her solar return, her birthday, and her lunar
00:17:14
return. The moon was in her sign. Wow. So, very very interesting to sort of establish and set the scene with this
00:17:24
person in this context on this night. That's really interesting. >> fascinating.
00:17:30
>> Like again, that just the odds of that Yes. don't compute. >> Like that's astronomical.
00:17:36
>> Something you said too like when you first started talking about her that she's a Gemini moon and then a Virgo
00:17:41
sun. And you were saying like other people in this case are that and how it's like I really have to get my life
00:17:46
together and like that kind of thing. Something we talked about when we when we originally covered the Jack the
00:17:51
Ripper case was that so many of these women were at a point in their lives where they were really trying to get
00:17:56
their lives together. And they were like just about to get there. So, it is interesting that you brought that up.
00:18:02
And that it's a key theme now in the astrology, too, like in their charts. >> Right.
00:18:06
>> And if we see astrology, so like what I I love so much about this is that we have her chart and then we have her
00:18:13
death chart, but that death chart is also a beginning chart. Her death chart is the beginning of the Jack the Ripper
00:18:21
murders. So, it is the end and it's like this path this passageway, this portal,
00:18:26
this threshold happening and ending in a beginning. Um and it's almost like the qualities
00:18:32
that she had, especially in that essence of like kind of stumbling and then picking
00:18:38
herself back up and then stumbling and picking herself back up almost is the story of perhaps even the murderer
00:18:45
himself. Wow. Like maybe there is some mirroring that happens here. >> There's some reflection. There's some
00:18:51
reflection here because if that was her story, she got murdered under a sky that
00:18:55
was very similar to the sky she was born under, that it's almost like the perfect
00:19:00
storm Right. of this person sort of being like, you know what? [ __ ] it. Yeah. Like this we're we're doing it.
00:19:07
This is what's happening. Wow. That gives me like chills. >> It's really so eerie. It's so eerie.
00:19:13
Yeah. And it describes Polly as a person. That whole like picking yourself up, falling like her whole life cuz we
00:19:20
went into it a little on our episode. Her whole life was like trying to pick herself back up.
00:19:26
>> Right. A hundred different times and like something knocking her back down. And it was from when like when she was
00:19:30
younger. Yeah, it was just her story. >> It was just her story. >> Yeah. Yeah. Another interesting thing is
00:19:35
that she was born with Saturn in Aquarius. And on the night of her murder and and during this time, throughout the
00:19:43
murders actually, Saturn is in Leo. So, Aquarius and Leo are opposite signs. So,
00:19:48
when she was murdered, she was going through her Saturn opposition. And so this is sort of like the the flip
00:19:55
side of your Saturn return. Okay. >> This is Saturn represents responsibilities and rules. It's this
00:20:02
very sort of like tough daddy energy. So when you go through the grim reaper It is your planet. [laughter]
00:20:08
It is. And when you go through your Saturn return there's this sort of reckoning of
00:20:12
the rules, right? Like growing up and maturing and becoming who you're supposed to be. Your Saturn opposition
00:20:18
is kind of when you're also facing similar circumstances, right? You're sort of like looking at your life and
00:20:23
looking at your choices. Not to say this should have been >> [laughter] >> how she had to reconcile it by any
00:20:30
means, but you know, 140 years after these tragedies occurred, we can also sort of think of of the fact that we're
00:20:38
talking about these people in a destiny fated legacy storied way, which is certainly not the case for so
00:20:47
many people who lost their lives in Whitechapel at this time, right? These people
00:20:53
have were really important for us continuing to tell their stories as archetypes and as as symbols
00:21:01
>> Yeah. of what it was like to live in these conditions at this time and be so sort of like beat down by all of the
00:21:08
forces that were working against you. Oh yeah. I mean, when you go into this time
00:21:13
period in Whitechapel in particular >> awful. >> That's why there were times when we were
00:21:17
covering this and Ash was like, "Oh my god, I got to stop out of this for a little while."
00:21:21
>> know. >> dismal and so dreary and gloomy and there was just like it felt it felt like there was no end in
00:21:27
sight to just like the the dreariness of it, you know what I mean? Like everyone was struggling.
00:21:33
>> Everything was dirty and just like dark and everybody was trying to make their
00:21:38
way, but like there was no way out. >> just drinking their problems away. >> is hell. It literally is hell and he
00:21:44
feels it feels like he swept in here and just became a personification of it. Right. Yeah. And also, you know, in in
00:21:54
this really weird way we can talk about that now you know, from the luxury of these lovely couches, but also recall
00:22:04
what it was like to be in those conditions where if there wasn't Polly Nichols getting murdered under the same
00:22:11
sun and moon that she was born under then we wouldn't be talking about it. You know, we wouldn't be talking about
00:22:16
what it was like to live in that time. No, we wouldn't even probably wouldn't even know what it felt like to live in
00:22:22
Whitechapel at that time or know any of that. >> Not at all, no. So it really is interesting.
00:22:26
>> Very So it's a really interesting start. >> It is. I also want to call out another
00:22:32
signature that we're going to see throughout all of this, which is really profound. And I I have goosebumps
00:22:39
looking at this and I hope that I can convey this to you when I share it, which is that
00:22:45
during this time, 1888 from 1888 until the early 1890s, we had a very rare astrological occurrence
00:22:53
happening, which is that we had a conjunction between Neptune and Pluto. So just as a, you know,
00:23:02
just a sort of we have not had this since and we will not have it again until almost the year 2400.
00:23:08
>> Wow. Until the 2390s. Holy [ __ ] >> So this does not have this doesn't happen in most people's lifetimes.
00:23:17
Holy >> [clears throat] >> yeah. This is a very unique thing to happen and to encounter. If this was
00:23:21
happening in our lifetime, astrologers would not even know what to do with themselves. It's so wild. Because
00:23:28
Neptune has a cycle and orbit of 165 years. Pluto has an orbit of 248 years. So for them to link up takes a really
00:23:37
really long time because they are such These are the two furthest celestial bodies we track in astrology.
00:23:43
>> Yeah, that makes sense. Neptune represents illusion, delusion, fantasy um it's it's mystery.
00:23:51
>> Mhm. It's mist, quite literally. It's it's things dissolving. It's things disappearing. And Pluto is the
00:24:00
underworld. It is death. >> [laughter] >> It is big deep transformation. And Neptune, this misty elusive
00:24:11
mysterious eerie sort of like enchanted supernatural energy combined with Pluto's own darkness and heaviness and
00:24:19
supernatural This is Whitechapel. This is just set the tone. This is actually This is like
00:24:25
mind-boggling. >> Especially when you go into like the mystery and the like even just miss I
00:24:30
was just going to say even just the miss is all you think [laughter] of. When you
00:24:33
think of Whitechapel, you think of the misty and dark dark Yep. Like full of death
00:24:40
and full of pain and full of like [laughter] struggling and mystery. And then we're still here talking about the
00:24:46
mystery. And that's the enduring Yes, that is the legacy of it, right? And then Pluto, which is death. death Like
00:24:54
mystery haze death. Yes. Like holy [ __ ] >> That's actually That's actually insane.
00:25:00
It's insane. That's wild. >> And so like we really need to just point out how insane it is that we'll never
00:25:05
experience that. We never have and like most people won't. But that's crazy to me that it's not going to happen again
00:25:11
for that long. It's not going to happen again, you know, for many many many versions of our
00:25:16
grandchildren. Like it's such a specific circumstance. And this case has that energy.
00:25:21
>> That one-of-a-kind >> Yeah. thing to it because it's like we've seen so many awful cases since
00:25:26
then, obviously. But this one has stuck in everyone's mind as like the most fascinating one, the most enduring one,
00:25:36
the most brutal one, the one that everybody just like obsessed like it becomes everybody's hyper fixation. And
00:25:42
it's like, "But there's many more that are also brutal cases. Why is this the one?"
00:25:46
>> You know what it is? I I feel like part of this being the one is that it feels
00:25:50
like lore. It feels like legend. It does. And I feel like that's like the Neptune role of it all. The Neptune and
00:25:57
there's also something Yeah, there's something paranormal about it. There cuz that was honestly like one of the things
00:26:04
That was one of the theories people had. Was was this a vampire? Was this a ghost? Was this somebody supernatural?
00:26:10
Even my kid thinks he's a vampire. He says I do. But it was one of those things people
00:26:16
talked about. He has to be a ghost. How can he get in there and get out there so
00:26:20
quickly? Like how was he never seen by anybody? Like it it has a paranormal aspect to it.
00:26:25
>> It absolutely does. Another thing that's interesting about this is that Neptune
00:26:30
represents the camera. It represents the lens. And one of the things in my research
00:26:37
around this that I kept having to be jump scared by at 2:00 in the morning are the photos. Oh.
00:26:44
of of these people >> the autopsy photos, the crime scene photo of Mary Jane Kelly.
00:26:48
>> Yeah. I saw those in high school for the first time and those will remain in your
00:26:52
brain forever once you see them. >> Exactly. And that is Neptune, the camera lens. And then Pluto, the death and the
00:27:00
legacy and that sort of joining forces. And I think that is one of the reasons also that this case is
00:27:06
is so enduring. Is that we have just enough technology and documentation to be able to not just say like and it was
00:27:15
brutal, but be like Look how brutal even by our like overexposed video game standards, this is [ __ ] up. Yeah, like
00:27:23
when you describe the Mary Jane Kelly crime scene your mind can't even conjure what that photo is going to show you cuz
00:27:31
that photo you're like, "That's a person in that bed?" Like it's and you describe
00:27:35
it, you know that he disfigured her to the point of not even knowing that that's a person on the bed. And you can
00:27:41
describe it as much as you want, but that picture will haunt you for the rest of your life if you look at it. And like
00:27:47
you said, it's just enough technology that we got those photos. >> I was just going to say like they're
00:27:51
some of the first crime scene photos we have. Exactly. Exactly. So this was occurring in the
00:27:59
sign of Gemini which is also very interesting. >> you're back. That happened with the with
00:28:04
the Salem witch trials, too. >> Well, and I think that we might have talked about
00:28:08
way back then a year ago how Uranus is moving into Gemini. We're even closer to that now than we
00:28:14
were then. But I think what's interesting about that is, you know, we talk about charts being
00:28:20
living and breathing entities. And we have this Neptune Pluto conjunction in early degrees of Gemini, which is
00:28:29
where Uranus is going. Uranus is often considered the planet Uranus is innovation,
00:28:35
breakthroughs, discoveries, shocking things. It's also often considered the planet of astrology. So I think we are
00:28:42
going to solve it through astrology. Oh boom. That is my thesis. >> [laughter] >> I'm for this.
00:28:48
>> But even for those who push back and say, "But what about the What about the DNA? What about the science, honey?
00:28:56
Honey, some things Some things we need the ancient texts for." >> Yes, and we don't have the right DNA
00:29:03
here, everybody. We don't have that. We got to move to the adjacent thing here. Got to keep pivoting. Got to keep
00:29:11
pivoting. And hey, if we maybe we can use the astrology to confirm the mitochondrial DNA because that's all
00:29:17
it's used for. It's not used to identify. I say it again. But maybe this is what it or maybe it's
00:29:24
going to con- it's going to confirm what I say that that's not which is Aaron Kosminski is not the killer. There's a
00:29:29
few more things that I want to just mention because this chart is again the birth chart of these murders, right? So
00:29:36
this is maybe the most important chart that we have. That's something wild. Um her death chart, our beginning of a
00:29:44
story chart. So Jupiter was in Scorpio during this time. It was in its final degrees of
00:29:51
Scorpio at this time of her death. It was at 28°. Mars, the planet that is often considered the most violent
00:29:58
planet, is also in Scorpio. Mars is like war. War. I was going to say, doesn't that represent Yeah. There's Yeah,
00:30:04
there's like a also a knife is one of the images associated with Mars. Like it is truly like it's like a blade, a
00:30:11
weapon is is one of its associations. >> Okay. Mars and Jupiter conjunct, both in
00:30:16
Scorpio. Mars at 22°, Jupiter 28°. Also, it just to sort of like contextualize Jupiter in Scorpio.
00:30:27
Jupiter is the planet of expansion. It enhances whatever where wherever it is. And Scorpio is associated with
00:30:37
the sort of like our own shadow. Mhm. Our own darkness. Yeah. So, my working theory, right, is that
00:30:45
there's something around Polly Nichols that triggers this impulse Okay. >> in in our murderer, right?
00:30:53
>> Okay. And that is triggered by Jupiter in Scorpio conjunct Mars in Scorpio It's
00:31:01
It's like rage energy. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And Well, she was a real like she stood her ground. Like she like Polly
00:31:08
Nichols was like not taking [ __ ] >> Right. Yes. So, maybe that was one of the things that set him off potentially.
00:31:14
Something that all every single victim has in common is that they all had their throat slashed, right? They all couldn't
00:31:21
talk. >> Yeah, they took away their voice. >> things that is defining about her as a
00:31:25
Virgo sun, Gemini moon is her communication. I was just going to say, yeah. And that is also embedded in this
00:31:32
chart as a sun in Virgo and a Gemini moon. And then also with that Neptune, Pluto Gemini signature. So, something
00:31:42
that I then proceeded to do for the rest of these, especially for our suspects, is to look to see
00:31:48
where is that conjunction activating their chart. Okay. Because to me, like that's a
00:31:55
really interesting piece of information. >> It's a consistent thing. That was And
00:31:59
it's And it's something that a lot of people talked about because nobody heard a lot during this. And it's, you know,
00:32:05
this was in the middle of the night. You're going to hear someone scream, you know, like it's pretty quiet out there.
00:32:10
No one would hear a lot of things. And it's because he would immediately slash their throats. He would immediately
00:32:16
silence them from behind or whatever he would do. So, it's like that really was his first priority.
00:32:22
>> First priority is to silence them. And that silencing to me, especially if we
00:32:26
think of this triggering him somehow, her triggering him, this energy triggering him, is like maybe that's a
00:32:34
clue, right? Is something about like speech and vocalization. Doesn't want to hear it. Doesn't want to hear it.
00:32:41
Doesn't want to And maybe he was silenced, right? Like maybe there is some sort of like a deep psychological
00:32:47
trigger that has driven him to this point of insanity of like no one's talking. >> Yeah, I don't want to hear you talk.
00:32:54
>> to hear it. Yeah. I could easily be like we could go right back to like the trope of the
00:32:59
overbearing, you know, mother. >> It's It's literally right in my head. Maybe he had a mother who, you know,
00:33:05
never stopped. >> That's interesting because there are some suspects with big mother issues.
00:33:10
Yeah. Big mommy energy. Cuz you think about like these are like sex motivated crimes. It's like sex workers and that
00:33:18
kind of thing. The Oedipus of it all. Exactly. I feel like he could have like an Ed Gein type mom figure that
00:33:25
>> Yes. was kind of overbearing, overly possibly over religious, possibly overbearing about like sexuality.
00:33:33
Something shaming. Like it feels like that's part of or was constantly talking about women such as our canonical five
00:33:40
who happened to be sex workers. Guarantee you he heard in part of his life horrible things about these kind of
00:33:48
women. >> Yeah. And so he felt some kind of rage against them. >> Yeah. >> Right. And then being like the little
00:33:54
[ __ ] he is >> Exactly. >> goes to like the people who are the most helpless, right?
00:33:58
>> Yes. And decides to do Or I mean, maybe his mom was a white chapel sex >> I was thinking. And he was getting
00:34:05
revenge, you know? Because that also just really lends itself to to the theory that he did have a medical
00:34:11
background because this is somebody that maybe came from a situation that wasn't
00:34:14
so great. >> Yeah. You know, like his mom was struggling to get by and maybe they
00:34:18
didn't have a good relationship. He got out of there and these women reminded him.
00:34:23
>> Yeah, and he wanted to strike back. >> Yeah. And he hated that. So, that's where it came from. Yeah. Yeah. It's a
00:34:27
possibility. >> There's There's all of this like I just I think I spent so much time with this
00:34:32
chart cuz I'm like this is it, right? Like if we're going to find something, it's going to be here, right here in how
00:34:38
it started in its origin story. >> And you build a law. The villain origin story. Literally. Is this chart.
00:34:45
>> Yeah. This I'm going to I'll give this to you to add to your collection of things to add to
00:34:48
>> [laughter] >> I'm like I'll frame it. Yeah, no. It's It is the villain origin story chart.
00:34:54
>> It really is. So, then we have victim number two. We have Annie Chapman. Dark
00:34:59
Annie. >> And this was about a month later. Or no, this was not a month later. This is another case of a birthday
00:35:08
correspondence. There was a lot of those. Yeah, they were quick succession. >> when we were talking about it
00:35:13
originally, I was like, "Oh my god, it's always right around their birthdays Yeah, it is. Yeah, cuz this was right in
00:35:18
September. So, Annie Chapman was born September 25th and she was killed September 8th.
00:35:23
>> Yeah. So, this was another situation of this was right after a birthday, this
00:35:27
was about to celebrate a birthday. I mean, I don't know who's like actually having like a Annie's celebration.
00:35:32
>> [laughter] >> Like who's doing pin the tail on the donkey here? But I am. I love a birth I love a
00:35:38
birthday. But again, killed under a Virgo sun. So, she is a Libra sun with a Virgo moon.
00:35:46
And she was killed under the exact flip of it. >> Okay. >> She was killed under a Virgo sun with a
00:35:51
Libra moon. Right. So, this is another one of those like very tank, eerie sort of mirroring
00:35:57
>> things that is happening. Complete opposites. What are the odds? Yeah. So, Annie
00:36:02
a different energy, a different kind of a character astrologically, a different birth chart profile. I mean,
00:36:08
similarities. They're born for sure, you know, in the same types of conditions. They're 5 years apart.
00:36:14
But with her Libra sun and her Virgo moon, we're seeing someone who is diplomatic. We're seeing someone who is
00:36:24
is very actively sort of like trying to, you know, harmonize, make things good, make things better for herself. Mhm. I I
00:36:33
She has a Virgo moon and every Virgo moon I have ever met is so hard on themselves. Yeah. Every Virgo moon I
00:36:40
have ever met is very and could be very self-deprecating. >> Mhm. And when I was reading about sort
00:36:45
of her circumstances and what was leading up to this night, September 8th, when she's murdered, it seems like it
00:36:54
was just like one of those like she's just like can't get a break. She can't catch a
00:37:00
break, right? >> No, which is such a theme in this. Such a theme. And this feeling of just like I
00:37:06
in her case, I think that she was a little bit more there was a little more giving up Okay.
00:37:13
in her situation. >> I think so. She She had kind of become her nickname. Her nickname was Dark Annie. And it was cuz
00:37:19
she drank a lot and she got like pretty gnarly when she drank. And I think she tried to get away from that and then it
00:37:25
sounds like she just kind of leaned into it a little bit. She had lost a lot by the by the end of her life. She had She
00:37:30
was very like skilled in a lot of ways. Like she crocheted, I believe. She like did a lot of like that kind of stuff and
00:37:37
she was able to like sell that stuff for a little while. And she tried to lean back on that, but it just wouldn't work
00:37:43
out for her. Something would happen that would knock her off, you know, the right
00:37:46
path or that path. And then she would just end up back here. So, I feel like there it happened
00:37:52
so many times that it does feel like she started just leaning into the Dark Annie
00:37:56
kind of thing. Yeah. Yeah, it you know, the these sort of signatures in her chart
00:38:02
to me, it sort of it it's very It's sad because I get the sense that she really wanted to live a different and better
00:38:08
life. >> She really did. And she was Like we have some other characters who kind of are
00:38:13
just like, "No, this is my This is my vibe. This is my story." Yeah, like coping in a way. Honestly, even Polly
00:38:18
more, right? Polly is more just like, "This is my Yeah, here we are. Like you love me,
00:38:22
hate me." It's white chapel. It's white. Exactly. [laughter] Exactly. What are you going to do?
00:38:31
But with this one with this person, I think that like she was really sort of at the end of her rope. Yeah.
00:38:36
Absolutely. She was interestingly at the time of her death going through her Jupiter return. She has Jupiter in
00:38:44
Scorpio in her chart. That only happens every 12 years. For our lovely listeners, don't think
00:38:49
that when you have your Jupiter return, you're going to end up being slain by Yeah, don't think that.
00:38:53
>> [laughter] >> an unsolved Jack the Ripper. But in her case, you know, again, I'm
00:38:58
thinking of it of like why these people, why are these our archetypes? Why are these the people who are telling the
00:39:04
story? Why are these the people that we're still telling their story all of this time later? And for her, like there
00:39:10
for all of them, there's a legacy piece in this. And I think part of this legacy
00:39:14
piece was for her just like, "This is the end of the line." Yeah. She That she reached the end of the line of many,
00:39:21
many decades of of tragedy and suffering. Yeah. And trying to better it. >> Yeah. Her Jupiter return being in
00:39:28
Scorpio, I feel like it's so significant because that's a pretty dark placement for Jupiter, right? It can be. I mean,
00:39:34
it's It's certainly is, you know, something to as a reference point for our Jupiter in Scorpio is that we had
00:39:40
Jupiter in Scorpio during most recently during the Me Too era. Mhm. So, it was sort of during this this big reveal of
00:39:49
all of the abuses and power dynamics and the way that people were abusing the hierarchy and the systems and taking
00:39:59
advantage of women was when the last time that we culturally experienced Jupiter in Scorpio. Right. There is a
00:40:06
deep correlation to sex and sexuality, to shame, to darkness, to to things that we don't talk about. I mean, like Harvey
00:40:13
Weinstein is to me, like and his that big exposure around him eww is him is Jupiter in Scorpio. He is the essence of
00:40:23
Jupiter in Scorpio to me. >> Okay. You know. >> [clears throat] >> So, that feels so significant. Yeah,
00:40:27
that really does. >> when she died, you know. >> Absolutely. And her death was an intensified version of what we had
00:40:34
experienced with Polly, right? Mhm. We she had her throat cut. Mhm. She had her abdomen opened. Her uterus removed.
00:40:43
>> Intestines placed over her shoulder. Mhm. Um the removal What do you think about the
00:40:49
removal of the organs? And why couldn't they find them? >> That's the thing. Because Do you think
00:40:54
he took them? Yeah, I was going to say I think he's got trophies. >> had them because I that from hell letter
00:41:00
it you know, it's it's highly hotly contested of whether that's real or not, but that it did come with a piece of a
00:41:07
human kidney. And it was tested and it was a human kidney. So, who knows it could have been her kidney.
00:41:12
>> And [clears throat] I think he was probably planning on doing more of that kind of [ __ ] with it. But I think he
00:41:17
just ran out of time or he decided it wasn't He said, you know, like that can't keep
00:41:22
doing this or he or he just thought it was a little too close of a call. Like he like he had gone a step too far and
00:41:28
he was risking He almost BTK'd it. Exactly. He didn't want to BTK it. He didn't want to just like give the disk
00:41:35
and be like, "No, it's fine." Yeah. You can't face me I think he kept them. I think he kept them as trophies.
00:41:40
Interesting that the the intestines were thrown over her shoulder. I always found
00:41:45
that really interesting. That does feel >> Feels intentional. Yeah. You don't just
00:41:50
whip intestines over someone's shoulder. It's not easy to do. Like that's you unra- like intestines aren't just like
00:41:57
willy-nilly in you. You got to like take them out and do that. >> Kind of unravel them.
00:42:02
That's not by chance. Was she one of the I remember one of the particular victims
00:42:07
really carried like every article of clothing that they had. Was she one of those?
00:42:12
>> of them did. I know Catherine Eddowes was one of those that had a lot of It almost feels like, "Here, throw this
00:42:18
over your shoulder, too, while you're at it." Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. I think um
00:42:23
Yeah, I think she I mean, they all of them had many layers of clothing cuz it's also freezing cuz it was like and
00:42:29
they just carried everything on them at all times kind of thing. And they would like, you know, collect things as they
00:42:35
went. >> Well, they didn't have a permanent place to stay, so they just had to sell stuff,
00:42:38
too. Like if you have a lot of layers, you can sell a layer and get some money. Yeah. But yeah, it always seemed to me
00:42:44
there was a message there for sure. It was almost like it was definitely taunting.
00:42:49
>> Well, I think that that's when for me I started to have that trigger of like the Black Dahlia. Mhm. Is the display.
00:42:56
Yeah. It's very theatrical. >> Which also happened during Jupiter in Scorpio. Really?
00:43:03
>> Yes. Oh, I just got all full warm moment. That's that's crazy. >> a coincidence. Not only that, but Saturn
00:43:11
was in Leo for both of them, too. So, Saturn and Jupiter, which are both considered like the head honchos of
00:43:18
astrology. It's like the two daddies. You I say Jupiter is casino daddy. >> Yeah. It's [laughter] like the Yeah.
00:43:23
It's like you go Yeah, expands. You go into Vegas with him. He's like dripping in gold.
00:43:30
>> that. Ladies on either arm. [laughter] And then I Saturn is the casino owner.
00:43:35
Oh, okay. Walking around. He's tapping people out. A little more quiet. Dealing with the mafia, with whoever it is.
00:43:42
>> Teaching a lesson. Exactly. Killing people in the back, right? Like So, you have sort of the external and
00:43:48
the internal parts of this system. >> I love thinking about it like that. That's actually really helpful to
00:43:53
learning astrology. >> It really is. I like that. But both of these were in the same
00:43:58
placements. And what are the odds of that? I mean, >> Yeah, what are the significance? There
00:44:01
must be a mathematician out there who can quickly generate that for us, but it it's very unlikely. It's very rare,
00:44:07
right? >> That's crazy. It only happens a few times a century. It feels significant.
00:44:12
Yeah. It does, for sure. They're square. That's the aspect they're making. So, Jupiter in Scorpio, as we said, it's
00:44:19
like, you know, there's the shame piece, the exposing, the darkness. Saturn in Leo, Leo is the performative you know,
00:44:27
theatrical Yeah. Mhm. sort of look at me energy. And to be in the spotlight Yeah,
00:44:32
to me at this point, we know that Jack the Ripper wants attention. >> Oh, yeah. But this is not something that
00:44:40
he's doing and trying to conceal. Right. He's concealing his identity, certainly.
00:44:45
But he doesn't want people to catch him in the act. >> No. He has some goals of these
00:44:50
encounters. >> wants to hear about it after. >> Yes. Yeah, but he's not he's not hiding
00:44:54
bodies. Yeah. No. He's Intestines on display. And he's getting more and more on display as these women
00:45:02
are killed. And he's getting bolder and bolder as he goes, too. Yeah. >> [music]
00:45:19
>> So, this is an this is an interesting one because this is also the last one that we have with Jupiter in Scorpio.
00:45:26
Jupiter's about to switch. Okay. Signs. Okay. >> think that this and that's my working
00:45:31
theory for why things really get wild. Oh, okay. >> Okay. That's interesting. So, next we have
00:45:39
Elizabeth Stride. Long Liz. Long Liz. Long Liz. They And they they don't know why. Yeah. They don't She's Long Liz.
00:45:47
Long Liz. Maybe she's tall. Maybe. They also said that she had a long face. Maybe.
00:45:53
Just something something long. The nicknames were [laughter] wild back then. They were. They're all they're all
00:45:58
like bullies. They were all pretty mean. Yeah, they were roast, for sure. I don't
00:46:01
want to know what my nickname would [laughter] have been back then. I don't want an 1888 Whitechapel name.
00:46:07
I'm sure there's a generator out there somewhere. >> [laughter] >> Wait, if it's not now, there is. We did
00:46:12
We need that generator. That's so funny. >> [laughter] >> So, um Elizabeth was a Sagittarius sun
00:46:23
um an Aquarius moon and she had a bunch of planets in Aquarius, actually. She had
00:46:30
>> She Yes, she was born in She was a Swedish woman. Mhm. Um she had Mars in Aquarius. She had Neptune in Aquarius.
00:46:38
The moon was in Aquarius. Jupiter was in Aquarius. She had the sun in Sagittarius. She was
00:46:45
a talker. Mhm. She was philosophical. Mhm. She was sort of, you know, she was unconventional. She was weird. She was
00:46:53
someone who did things differently. >> Right. Um so, it makes sense that she She's one of those that I feel like is
00:47:00
in the situation, but is also kind of like "Where else would I be?" You know, like
00:47:05
Yeah. I Here I have found myself in Whitechapel. It is a long way from Kansas. But like
00:47:11
I'm doing the thing here. Because she originally in Sweden, I believe, she was the one who registered as a sex worker
00:47:18
in Sweden so she could do it legally. Oh, [ __ ] >> to like check in and get checked and
00:47:22
stuff. So, she did it like Yeah, like this is the job I'm doing. That feels very Aquarius energy. Like I can do this
00:47:29
and like people should be able to do that. >> it official. And concerned with like the
00:47:32
world at large. So, it it does seem like she's just kind of like, "Yeah, this is
00:47:35
what I do." >> I'm owning it. >> Yeah. Put me on the list. Like I'm going to do this legally. And what I also, you
00:47:40
know, going back to that um to the sort of like the communication and the talking and then the silencing
00:47:47
thing. Like here's another example of of another female archetype who has like a very
00:47:55
ballsy chart. >> Yeah. A bold nature. Yeah. And who is it who stands up for herself and knows how
00:48:00
to defend herself and knows how to protect herself. Like sure, she is certainly a victim not just of this
00:48:07
murder, but like of the world and society and the circumstances. But she also was tough. Yeah, in fact, on the on
00:48:15
the night she died, one of the witnesses heard like one of the witnesses who saw
00:48:20
her walking with a man or saw her talking with a man heard this other person say to her, "You would say
00:48:25
anything but your prayers." And [laughter] like and she laughed. I love that. So, that's literally her.
00:48:31
Like she just reflected I mean, not to mention she has my mom's birthday. So, November 27th,
00:48:38
1843. My mom's not from here. >> [laughter] >> I feel like exact date, exact date, time, and location. Yeah.
00:48:46
>> [laughter] >> No, but my mom is a November 27 Sag. So, I know the energy. Okay.
00:48:51
>> I know [laughter] that energy. It it is. My grandma used to say that when my mom
00:48:55
was a little girl, she would like follow her from room to room talking. Like go into the bathroom talking. My mom She
00:49:01
goes to the basement. Like anywhere my grandma was going, my mom was following talking talking.
00:49:06
>> Yes. So, that really fits her. Yeah. You would say anything but your prayers.
00:49:10
Yeah. He's He's just like, "Damn, you're just talking." >> [laughter] >> And she was also when she was found, she
00:49:16
had a flower She had flowers in her hand. She had coins in her hand. Yeah, she had a lot
00:49:21
of things on her. But she was like in the process She was like doing things. >> Yeah. She was like talking, chatting,
00:49:27
doing things, busy. >> Oh, yeah. She was not just like wandering down the streets. Nope. You
00:49:31
know. She was in the mix. >> She was in the mix. >> For sure. She And it wasn't even, you
00:49:35
know, in for Whitechapel, it wasn't even that late. >> No, 1:00 a.m. I think it was she was
00:49:40
found. Yeah. >> sure. >> Yeah, that's I mean, that's just popping off in Whitechapel. That's the beginning
00:49:44
of the night. Yeah, happy hour. That's the pregame. That's when she was found, so this was way before.
00:49:48
>> Yeah. So, in this case, she had her throat cut, but no additional mutilation happened.
00:49:53
>> I think she it was interrupted, I'm pretty sure. Well, and then you think about the timing. It's like maybe
00:49:58
somebody was coming around the corner, you know. >> It's too early for him to be out doing
00:50:02
this. And he did it in kind of an open space. >> Right. I 100% think that this was
00:50:07
interrupted. Because of what happens with the next one. Yep. He had a vision. He did. Um
00:50:14
and I think he had a story that he wanted to tell with this. >> Oh, yeah. And this to me feels sort of
00:50:21
like a oh, [ __ ] you know, like never I got to this didn't work out. This wasn't
00:50:26
what I isn't this isn't the vision I had. I have to keep moving. That's why I think he had a double event next because
00:50:32
I think he was wanted to get it done. Yes. And this chart is interesting because it's as I mentioned, it's the
00:50:39
first one where Jupiter switches into Sagittarius. >> Okay. Now, Jupiter is in its domicile in
00:50:45
Sagittarius, which means that's where Jupiter loves to be the most. Our most recent reference of Jupiter in
00:50:51
Sagittarius is when COVID started spreading. >> Oh, [ __ ] It's [laughter] I think my
00:50:56
Jupiter is in Sagittarius. We'll discuss. Okay. Oh, no. Can't wait [laughter] to get to
00:51:02
that. >> It's it's this sort of like it's it's bigger. It's enhancing. It's amplifying.
00:51:08
It's taking that energy and at on this day, on September 30th, Jupiter was making an exact opposition to Neptune,
00:51:17
which is locked in with Pluto. It's that Neptune Pluto signature, which is Oh, [ __ ] in all of these charts, you
00:51:24
know, that was that's a very long-lasting signature because those planets move so slowly. So, all of these
00:51:31
charts, all of these death charts have that. And Jupiter, which is the magnifying energy,
00:51:38
was magnifying that signature of mystery, of murder, of sort of the intensity and the volume.
00:51:47
Like it literally was turning up the volume on this. And I think that and again, we're back to volume, we're back
00:51:54
to speech, we're back to sort of vocalization. I think that Elizabeth Stride was very much sort of I mean,
00:51:59
they're all very wrong place, wrong time, but this is one where it's like maybe we didn't have to have two that
00:52:05
night. Yeah. I think that he I think there there could have just been one. Mhm. Yep. But we have a casualty of a
00:52:11
casualty. >> a missed opportunity in his eyes. >> Yeah. So, yeah, that's that's our scene with
00:52:18
with this death chart, which is the same death chart because we don't have the exact time to the second or to
00:52:25
the fourth victim, which is Catherine Eddowes. >> our girl, our girl who is of is getting
00:52:32
talked about a lot recently. >> she had a shawl. Supposedly that's her shawl. It wasn't, though.
00:52:37
>> think so. Well, guess who has a Gemini moon? Catherine Eddowes. Okay. >> Yeah, so she is part of the signature.
00:52:45
She's part of the story that we're telling with the Neptune and the Pluto in Gemini. Because Polly had one, too,
00:52:50
right? >> Yes, and that was the death chart, the first chart has a Gemini moon. So, Catherine also was is a is an Aries.
00:52:58
She was born on April 14th, 1842. And she was born under a Pluto sun conjunction. So, when she was born,
00:53:07
Pluto was in Aries, her sun was in Aries, and we talked about Pluto being death, right? We talked about Pluto
00:53:13
being this like mysterious, underworld, intense force. But when I see something like that in a
00:53:19
chart, I think that this is a legacy that lives on. To have your sun connected with a force
00:53:26
like Pluto, of course you're going to be remembered for how you die, you know. Cuz that's
00:53:31
life and death all in one house. >> Yes. And Aries is a fire sign. We have another firecracker here. We have
00:53:39
another feisty woman. Not going to put up with your [ __ ] not going to be silenced.
00:53:44
>> Unless you do it immediately. I think she also has a temper. Yeah, she does. And the dude, I think she the guy that
00:53:50
she was with at the time or like hanging around with, literally told her that night like be careful, don't become
00:53:56
another victim of the Whitechapel Slasher or whatever they were calling him at that point. And she was like, oh,
00:54:01
I'm not worried about that. Literally said like [ __ ] that. She was just like, nope, don't care.
00:54:06
That freaks me out. Mhm. Cuz when someone says something like that, you don't want it to be prophetic.
00:54:11
>> Yeah, you don't want that to live on. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's the worst prophecy you could give. You definitely
00:54:15
don't. But yeah, this is this is another strong, fiery individual who is doing her thing, not
00:54:24
taking any [ __ ] knows how to defend herself, knows how to take care of herself. Um definitely would know how to
00:54:31
stand up for herself. >> Yeah. That's a trigger for him, for sure. 100%. Because of the fact that all
00:54:36
of the I mean, we're on the fourth victim and they all have this in common so far. It's just absolutely a trigger
00:54:40
for him. Yes. And then this, you know, is is so interesting to me because this is the case where we have her story
00:54:48
living on, right? The shawl comes from this. Yep. The kidney Yep. what the next sort of incident that
00:54:57
we'll talk about is comes from this chronologically. Um then also this is where there's graffiti on the wall Yeah.
00:55:05
that I think is incredibly compelling. Mhm. And one of our characters, the the captain,
00:55:13
Oh, no, Sir Charles Warren. >> We're talking about Warren. Sir Charles Warren, the head of the London
00:55:18
Metropolitan Police, Mhm. has it scrubbed before any crime scene photos are taken.
00:55:24
Interesting. So, I don't have that text here, but I maybe you we could also pull it up, but it's
00:55:32
anti-Semitic surprise. >> Yep. Yep. [laughter] Surprise. Spoiler alert. Um but to me, the reason that all of these
00:55:40
pieces are so interesting with this person, with this death case, with this death chart, is the legacy bit of it.
00:55:49
This is when to me, our Jack the Ripper is being like, "Notice me. Yeah. Pay attention to me.
00:55:57
>> Oh, yeah. Throat cut, abdo- abdomen mutilated, left kidney removed, >> Mhm. uh parts of the uterus removed, our
00:56:05
first instance of facial mutilation. >> Right. And this is someone who's not taking any
00:56:11
[ __ ] >> No. This is also someone who in their chart has that sun Pluto conjunction of
00:56:19
I'm going to be remembered for how I die. Yeah. And I am going to tell a story that exists long after I am gone.
00:56:26
You know what's even weirder is she got arrested that night. And when they asked
00:56:31
her to write her name down, she wrote nothing. Spooky. Isn't that weird? For like
00:56:35
somebody who's going to be remembered for how they died, they wrote nothing as their name. And just like you're like
00:56:41
you're so close to not being nothing, but to being be being removed removed from existence.
00:56:48
Like physically. I hate that so much. My arms are fully chilling so badly. But she's something.
00:56:55
>> She is. And we're still talking about her. And all of I mean, so much evidence
00:57:00
comes from this particular murder. Right. Not the shawl. The alleged shawl comes
00:57:06
from this murder. But this one this one's also really intricate, too, like how he removed
00:57:12
things. Like he took her kidney and he removed it from the renal capsule, which is like a very thin lining to take and
00:57:19
then he did it like very delicately. And again, this is one of those things where
00:57:23
she was killed in a place that was darker than dark. Like her particular place that she was killed, I think was
00:57:30
it Mitre Square, I believe, or something. She was right out in the open. She was and she was in an alleyway
00:57:35
and it was like dark, dark, dark. And she had just passed a police officer. She said something like like good
00:57:41
evening, old [ __ ] or something to him. Like she said something like that. That's my girl. That's my Aries sun,
00:57:47
Gemini moon girl. And she's just waltzing past a police officer and then he does it in an alleyway in the pitch
00:57:53
blackness faster than you can imagine. And he's being so delicate to slice through a
00:57:59
renal capsule to remove a kidney. You have to know. You have to know. about the body. Yeah,
00:58:06
yeah, yeah. You have to know that you need to be delicate with that. >> You have to. Yeah. And I think she had
00:58:11
her uterus removed, too. Like there was so many things here that he did so fast.
00:58:16
Yeah. >> And it's interesting cuz it was a partial removal, so it's like did he not
00:58:20
have time to finish it? >> Yeah, I mean, he was doing a lot, you know. Yeah. Yeah, and the facial
00:58:24
mutilation, Mhm. you know, also we have images of it. Yeah. Also horrifying. Also jump scares for me in my research.
00:58:33
Mhm. It's hardcore. It is. It is really intense. And you wonder, too, with that one because again, he's like escalating.
00:58:41
And cuz the other ones didn't have the extensive facial mutilation. It's like we go here and then to go from here, we
00:58:48
obviously have somebody in between, but to go to Mary Kelly, it's like he was on that path.
00:58:53
>> on that path. of just making them not a person anymore. >> Right. And I think that was like the
00:58:58
message here. Was he was slowly making them not a person. >> Well, maybe that's really where the
00:59:04
intestines thrown over the shoulder comes in with the second woman who was killed. It's like that's where he
00:59:09
started. Like you're not a person. It's almost like animalistic. >> Yeah, cuz he makes it almost like a like
00:59:14
you said, like he's making it almost like a part of her clothing, you know, like Right. something strange. Like
00:59:19
let's just flip them over her shoulder cuz that's and that's not something human. And then it just continues to
00:59:24
escalate. >> Yeah, that's why I think there is there is some personal vendetta in connection to sex
00:59:32
workers. >> Yeah, because it's a humiliation ritual. >> them slowly but surely not recognizable
00:59:38
as human beings because that's how he saw them. But he just did it slowly as he went.
00:59:43
Yes. >> Which is so [ __ ] up. >> Yes. And so what do you think about the graffiti that was here?
00:59:50
That always kind of confounded me. I feel like it was unrelated. >> I remember talking about that and that
00:59:54
was our consensus was that it was unrelated. And I think that's also part of why Charles Warren got rid of it or
01:00:00
ordered it to be washed off cuz I think he knew as well that it would be connected.
01:00:05
>> Because it's also like would he really have had the time to do everything he did to mutilate her and then again in
01:00:10
the pitch black yeah write that on the wall. >> Yeah. My my initial instinct was that it was
01:00:17
unrelated. >> Mhm. But then the letter comes right after. So if we think of the letter if we do
01:00:27
say that that was an authentic communication which I think it is. I feel like it probably
01:00:32
>> The From Hell letter? Yeah. I think the From Hell letter is my favorite part of
01:00:36
this whole story. >> with the From Hell letter. I mean it's so spooky girl coded. It's
01:00:42
>> [laughter] >> terrifying. It's so terrifying. But the reason that I sort of paused on it
01:00:49
because because it's anti-Semitic it's like like what business like why are we throwing this you know subplot into the
01:00:56
story right? What does it have to do with this? Exactly. But then to have the letter right after to me there is this
01:01:02
piece of communication that's happening and then going back to the astrology that communication signature right? That
01:01:09
these women aren't talking but I have something to say. And I want to be heard. I want to be
01:01:15
seen not for you to find out who I am. >> Or maybe he did. >> I mean he really starts to get pretty
01:01:22
bold dicey. Right. And then he reaches out to the media. It's like that he is testing the waters.
01:01:28
If that graffiti was there and he saw it and that sparked an idea. Like that was
01:01:34
like oh Let's do it here. >> Cuz then the communication started. So it's like he almost saw that and was
01:01:40
like wait I can communicate. That's interesting. Like I can communicate not just through this and what I'm doing cuz
01:01:47
obviously what I'm doing I'm communicating in some way but people aren't getting it. Like no one's getting
01:01:52
it. >> No one's getting the writing on the wall. >> I and he literally is like I'm seeing
01:01:56
the writing on the wall maybe I should send a letter. Maybe I should communicate with words.
01:02:00
>> Right. Right. If this is here. You know. Yeah and maybe also cuz obviously he was
01:02:05
paying attention to how the investigation was going. Yes. >> So he also saw that the that that was
01:02:12
scrubbed off. So he's also thinking oh words matter. They have meaning. >> to take them seriously.
01:02:20
>> are this is something that I can incorporate into into this storytelling because that's I mean he's telling some
01:02:27
sicko story here in this and that's what he wants to convey. >> Right. So yeah this is this one is really
01:02:36
a notable one because of how much evidence both real and alleged evidence and then
01:02:42
also missing evidence is coming out of it. And then the next thing that I have is
01:02:46
the From Hell letter. >> Yep. So that's October 16th 1888. And this is sent to George
01:02:55
Yeah cuz he was a Lusk that's what it was. I try I tragically don't have a birthday for him other than that he was
01:03:02
born in 1839 was the year he was born. So he is the a builder and a decorator. Could you imagine that existing in
01:03:12
>> [laughter] >> Okay. He's got a dreary vibe. >> [laughter] >> Edward Gorey-esque.
01:03:24
Um the chairman of but he becomes the chairman of the Whitechapel vigilance vigilance
01:03:31
So he is like you know what I got to take matters into my own hands. >> Neighborhood watch let's go. Love. We
01:03:36
love a neighborhood watch. And he receives this letter. This package a parcel if you will. Truly a parcel.
01:03:44
>> October 16th 1888 um that has the most iconic haunting letter ever. And also a kidney. And also a kidney.
01:03:55
>> little piece of a kidney. Fantastic. That's that right there I'm like I just I don't
01:04:02
see how you can't think that's authentic. Like yeah. >> also tested the kidney and were able to
01:04:07
determine it was human and it was female and it was likely from the left side. Which Catherine Eddowes' kidney was on
01:04:15
the left side. >> Which is crazy that they could do that back then. I know I know I'm like keep going.
01:04:21
>> Right. >> [laughter] >> You can't find this man. You're doing great work. >> [laughter]
01:04:32
>> Yeah. So this letter is is everything to me because it also you know it we don't have again the exact time but
01:04:42
it arrived in the afternoon. So we are able to kind of play with the time a little bit between 3:00 and 6:00 p.m.
01:04:49
So with that in mind it's very possible that that signature that Neptune Pluto signature in Gemini could have been like
01:04:59
distinctly at one of the big angles of this right? I have it a little bit after 4:00 p.m. and that puts it at the what's
01:05:09
the point is called the IC which is the base of your chart which I literally refer to as your villain origin story.
01:05:15
And that also would mean that the moon in Pisces is right on the ascendant. Pisces is ruled by Neptune so it's
01:05:23
creating mystery right? It's it's continuing this yes this dreamy puzzle pieces and it's also adding to the
01:05:30
drama. Something that I always think about and that I think often gets overlooked with Pisces and Neptunian
01:05:37
placements is that they have this sort of like glamour and mystique to them. So there was an aestheticism [laughter] to
01:05:43
it. There was a lot of intentionality about the presentation the parcel the kidney the kidney being in in a spirit.
01:05:51
And the fact that he was saying he tried to eat some of it. So he was upping that
01:05:55
like I'm nasty >> [laughter] >> like he was like oh also I'm a cannibal. And unless you didn't think that I was
01:06:04
[laughter] twisted. Are you scared I'm also a cannibal so it's like he's upping it. Yes. Yeah. So
01:06:12
this also this chart also puts Mars right at the midheaven. Mars again being violence war knives.
01:06:21
You know I grow things. >> [laughter] >> So this this From Hell letter is is truly from hell. Yeah. It is truly truly
01:06:30
from the bowels of hell. And this is also like determination right? So he's determined to make a name for himself
01:06:35
when he sends this letter. Yes. Yeah. And it makes sense again with the addition of like recognize me. In
01:06:43
addition with the with the Hannibal-esque like I ate it you know with a fine canty.
01:06:48
Yeah. You know like that's the vibe like he's getting theatrical he's upping his ante he's trying to be
01:06:56
he's try and the aesthetic of it all he's like I'm now a cannibal. Just like he's he's
01:07:01
laying that out as like it's oh and I ate it. I had a fried up and ate it. I fried it up it was delicious.
01:07:09
Here's the rest. For you. For you try. Why do you think that he sent it to this like
01:07:17
citizen >> [laughter] >> this this vigilante citizen? I think because the police commissioner just
01:07:23
wasn't getting it. And the I mean that's like the whole reason that the vigilante
01:07:28
came to be is because the police commissioner wasn't really getting it so she needed to start figuring this out
01:07:33
and I think whoever Jack the Ripper is recognized that and was like oh well this guy's going to spread the good word
01:07:38
that I'm a cannibal that that I have this kidney that I'm this like deviant man. You know. I think so too.
01:07:47
Yeah it's it's so interesting to me you know the timing of it too it's two weeks
01:07:52
after the last murder and then we still have a ways to go. You know it's kind of
01:07:57
the halfway point between the two most gruesome and final murders. So what was going on? What was he doing?
01:08:05
He was writing letters he was eating kidney he was doing something with these organs I think. Experiments maybe. I you
01:08:12
wonder what he cuz I I also wonder I'm like Elizabeth Stride was supposed to be Catherine
01:08:18
Eddowes. Like that's clear. So it's like did he always have five in mind? Was there always this you know extra
01:08:26
or was it always supposed to be four? Is there some significance to four instead
01:08:30
of five since I don't think he had intentionally went for five. I think he got [ __ ] up. Five went so off the
01:08:38
[ __ ] rails. That's why like I think maybe he initially wanted four and cuz also that makes kind of the most sense
01:08:44
the with the way he escalates if you take Elizabeth Stride out of it. Right. It kind of
01:08:51
pause almost because there was an interruption. He didn't get to go. Like the the intestines over the
01:08:58
shoulder like that's that's escalation. And then you go to Catherine Eddowes and it's
01:09:05
way more escalation. There's the facial mutilation there's the removal of more organs there's lacerations everywhere. I
01:09:12
believe her I think her genitals were like severely lacerated. He went like really frenzied in that one. And then he
01:09:21
goes about a hundred steps higher with Mary Jane Kelly. >> Yeah. And it's like I do wonder if it
01:09:27
was supposed to be four. And that they were looking at the significance of the five and everything, but there was
01:09:32
always a significance of four, maybe. I wonder if he also and like you know, if we were to talk about
01:09:39
Don't let me talk about ghosts because I always end up siding with the ghosts. Now Jack the Ripper is is [laughter] not
01:09:44
a ghost. So I'm not So I'm not siding with him, but I also am wondering if maybe he really wanted
01:09:50
to get caught. Yeah. >> Before this the final one. Mhm. And he was really also being tortured. Mhm.
01:09:58
Mentally. Yeah. Because there's enough of a pause and there's enough of an outreach where he could also be just
01:10:05
like losing his damn mind. I mean clearly this is like a very unwell person. >> Disturbed individual.
01:10:12
>> so many suspects that did end up going into asylums at the time that everything
01:10:17
abruptly stopped. So I think you could be onto something there. >> Valid. Yeah, and it's kind of like it's
01:10:22
a cry for help. He's like I'm a cannibal, too. >> Yeah, like I'm really really bad.
01:10:27
I really need help. >> Like I'm eating these organs. >> YEAH. SOMEONE COME find me. Yeah. It's
01:10:32
like I think there was like we did a case of like the lipstick the lipstick killer, yeah.
01:10:36
>> And he literally wrote on the wall like for the love of God, please find me or I
01:10:41
won't stop. And it and it kind of feels all similar in a way. Yeah. It's like you could go either way with it where
01:10:48
like he really went to lengths to not be caught. But then also that pause and then the frenzy at the end. You're like
01:10:56
what did happen? >> Well, I feel like there is like such a dichotomous nature to whoever this is.
01:11:00
Absolutely. >> Of it's like I want to get caught. No, I don't. >> Gemini. I want to get caught. No, I don't.
01:11:08
Probably. So many killers are. They are. We'll see. You know, but so many rappers
01:11:13
are, too. So There are good [laughter] So many podcast hosts are. I love a Gemini.
01:11:19
>> Who doesn't love a Gemini? Thank you. Thank you. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, it's you know, it also then makes
01:11:25
me think that it's another point for that he could have done the graffiti, though. Yeah. Of like maybe if I'm
01:11:30
anti-Semitic, they'll pay attention. >> Yeah, like I could I'll make myself the worst person I can possibly be. An
01:11:36
anti-Semitic cannibal killer. That'll do it. >> But then I also on like the flip side of
01:11:41
it, I do think he views these women as like subterranean. Yeah. I don't think he views them as people that it's like
01:11:48
as people, period. >> like look, I'm a bad guy. I think he's like I'm not a bad guy. Like I'm taking
01:11:52
out the trash. I think that's literally how he views it as like they're >> he can't decide. people, so like why do
01:11:58
you all even care? Maybe he can't decide, though. Maybe it's yes, they're trash and yes, I'm disposing of them and
01:12:03
I'm a great guy because I'm you know, taking them off the streets. And then on the flip side of that, maybe he's also
01:12:07
like but I'm a killer and I ate these kidneys and I'm doing all these [ __ ] up things that I can't stop myself.
01:12:14
>> Yeah. Yeah, that letter definitely feels more just like look how twisted I am.
01:12:19
Yeah. >> [laughter] >> And you wonder if like he started this with that like cuz I there's that
01:12:25
personal thing that I feel is there that like somebody in his life made him The mother or the mother role. Yeah, like
01:12:32
somebody in his life, like a wife, a girlfriend, a mother, like some woman in his life made him hate, like in his
01:12:38
mind, made him hate these women. >> Yes. And I wonder if he started with Polly thinking like this is my like
01:12:45
journey I'm going to take. I'm going to get this out. I'm going to I'm going to teach these women a lesson kind of
01:12:50
thing. And then he saw and I think to him he was like, well, no one will give a [ __ ] because who gives a [ __ ] about
01:12:56
these women in his mind. And then he saw that people did give a [ __ ] about this
01:13:00
and that it was causing such a stir and he slowly started falling into that like
01:13:05
wait a second, like getting that ego and getting that like people are scared of me. So then now I'm like was he like he
01:13:12
was we know he's a little [ __ ] but it's like was he even more of a little [ __ ] than we thought he was?
01:13:16
>> I mean probably. >> everybody like suddenly fearing him and being like Jack the Ripper, you know,
01:13:21
like and all of a sudden he's like [ __ ] like I have power I didn't have before
01:13:25
and that's why it kept escalating. Well, when you think about the circumstances of of Whitechapel and living there at
01:13:31
the time and nobody really had power. Nobody had word or exactly. So now he finally
01:13:36
has it. >> Yeah, he's like he's got everybody like eating his words. >> the shadows, which is also then going
01:13:40
back to that signature of Neptune and Pluto that we have in all of these murders. It's like because Pluto is also
01:13:47
power, right? It's it is power. So yeah, you have power, but nobody knows who the
01:13:52
[ __ ] you are. >> Yeah, right. And you're a little [ __ ] So like So do you have power? Like
01:13:57
really? You don't even Nobody even knows who you are. And you're attacking people
01:14:00
in like the dead of night on on dark street corners. And immediately cutting their throats.
01:14:05
>> cutting their throats. It's like so you're you're a little [ __ ] Little [ __ ] At the end of the day. L B. It's
01:14:10
true. Jack the Ripper is a little [ __ ] He is a little [ __ ] You heard it here
01:14:14
first. >> Yeah, I think it is important to to call it like it is because >> Yeah. this you know, he has become so
01:14:21
mythological. >> Mhm. And like he's gotten like sexy and >> cuz like people turn him into this like
01:14:28
It's a supernatural thing. >> that's just like looming around with a cape and a top hat.
01:14:33
>> there's like a sex worker sex energy and it's I don't think he was I don't think
01:14:38
he was with like a cape and a top hat. Like I don't think cuz also he would sit and I think actually I think on the
01:14:43
Tobias episode he pointed this out. He would stick out like a sore thumb in Whitechapel walking around in a [ __ ]
01:14:50
cape and a That's so funny. They'd be like it's probably that weirdo. They'd be like it's probably that [laughter]
01:14:54
weird old guy over there. With the cape like the top hat guy. Maybe [laughter] this rich guy that's
01:14:59
walking in here. Right, this [ __ ] murder moved to town. Yeah, it's like no, I think he probably looked like
01:15:04
>> in. He might be a little a dirty like like everyone else there. So it's like it's so weird how it's
01:15:11
become like this sexualized version of him of like look at this like caped figure and it's like But that's like the
01:15:17
Neptune Scorpio Like even like like somebody sent us this from it's like a little like the visitor's guide that you
01:15:25
get on the tour in Whitechapel. And even there hot silhouette. He's like this big
01:15:29
looming figure. And it's like that's not what he looked like. I know it. Yeah. Drawn tiny. We
01:15:36
will not see a top hat on that man. If he was to materialize in front of us right now, no top hat to be seen. Yeah.
01:15:44
No cape to be seen. >> Ew, I hope he does not materialize. I hope he doesn't, either. You know what?
01:15:49
Bring it. Show yourself. >> Let's talk to him right now. You want some more outspoken women?
01:15:55
We're right here. >> [laughter] >> We'll outnumber you. Yeah, yeah. It's not Whitechapel. This is New England.
01:16:01
And we have a Mikey in here, so we're going to kick [laughter] your ass. But he's like yeah.
01:16:06
And we're like wait, no. And he's like I'm going to go home now. >> [laughter] >> Canadian.
01:16:13
I'm not ready for this. >> [laughter] >> That's so funny. I love it. >> So nobody
01:16:20
catches him. No. And unfortunately >> [laughter] >> for all of this time. This is just a
01:16:25
funny one, but there was a saucy Jack letter. Do you remember the saucy Jack letter? That wasn't real, though. It was
01:16:32
an interesting one, though, cuz I think that one mentioned the double event. >> So it was So I remember that one I was a
01:16:36
little iffy on the on the Cuz it wasn't released that there was a double event yet when it was written. So that's an
01:16:43
interesting one. >> But it also could have just been somebody who like lived in that
01:16:45
particular area. >> somebody definitely did write that, you know. But yeah. Or one of these like
01:16:50
silly police officers who Yeah, let's send a letter to the top boys. They were kooky police officers. And there wasn't
01:16:57
a lot going on aside from this, which you would think this would be enough, but >> Yeah, it was just a bunch of dudes
01:17:01
entertainment. It was a lot of the same. A lot of the same misery. Same old, same
01:17:06
old. So Mary Jane Kelly. She is the youngest of the victims. She's She was 25 when she died. We know
01:17:16
her birth year. She was born in 1863. Her situation is very different than all the others. She is young. She was
01:17:23
murdered indoors. She was murdered in her home. Very upsetting. Um in the room she was renting. Um she also was
01:17:34
completely like brutalized I mean she She evaporated. She wasn't even She yeah. can
01:17:42
There was nothing holding her together anymore. >> a human form in the crime scene photo.
01:17:46
Yeah. I mean and like pieces of her were placed in different places in the room.
01:17:51
Her face was hacked apart, like her thighs are you can see just bone. Yeah. He like hacked it right to the
01:17:57
bone, like I can't imagine how long this took. It said it said over two hours. >> It had to have taken so long. And how
01:18:05
did he not calm in the middle of that? You know what I mean? Like how are you frenzied
01:18:10
for two hours? I think almost I think he was How did he not How did he not lose steam? See, I think he was frenzied in
01:18:17
the beginning and I think cuz it it takes a lot to cut into a person. Like it just does. There's a lot there's a
01:18:25
different layers of a human being take a lot. >> Layers of skin, muscles, tendons, bones,
01:18:30
And I think he was frenzied and I think he was frenzied when he went at her face. I think he was frenzied when he
01:18:35
went like at the when he was hacking away. >> And when he killed her. And then I think
01:18:39
he had a moment of like stopping for a second, breathing, and then meticulously cutting off her breasts, chopping away
01:18:48
at her thighs. Like I think he took a breath and then got meticulous about it. >> It's also possible
01:18:56
that he thought he was going to get found Yeah. in this process. >> So he was just doing this.
01:19:01
>> Doing the most he could. >> literally buying time being like, well, I guess I'll just keep going because no
01:19:06
one's coming yet. >> Yeah, I I wasn't considering that um in the in preparing these charts, but
01:19:13
as we've talked about it, you know, like I think that it taking this long of time and you could
01:19:19
argue well, he was indoors, so like he had the luxury of time. >> Yeah. But there was still like coming
01:19:26
and going. And this was also happening like, you know, in the early hours. Yeah.
01:19:31
>> So there was some movement. >> leave for work and get out to do their [ __ ] >> happening at like, you know, 5:00 a.m.
01:19:38
>> Yeah. Sun was starting to come up, you know, it's not the middle of winter yet,
01:19:43
right? We still have a sun that rises pretty early, right? >> That's true. He also, I think he
01:19:50
I I'm pretty sure there was like a fireplace in the room, and I think he like made the fire like blazing, too.
01:19:57
>> Yes. Like the fire was blazing. >> So it's like come look in here. >> think he was drawing attention to it,
01:20:03
which he could that could be drawing attention to him while he's in there, or drawing attention to the scene after the
01:20:08
fact. >> Yeah, maybe it was one of the last things he did. >> Yeah, but it's definitely drawing
01:20:11
attention. That was a blazing fire. >> Yes. That she definitely didn't set. So this is This is the chart where This is
01:20:18
the only murder that takes place during Scorpio season. And Scorpio season is is that veil
01:20:25
between worlds season. Um Halloween occurs during Scorpio season. It's end of October into November. Um and we've
01:20:33
talked about Scorpio energy represented in the other planets, but it's, you know, it's that life and death and power
01:20:39
and intensity. So this Scorpio season sort of backdrop here, I think, gives it this really
01:20:46
eerie, dark, psychological tone. We also have um the sun in the same place where Jupiter and Mars were when this
01:20:57
whole thing started. So there is a sort of like this full circle, yeah. This this
01:21:03
conclusion that's happening here, too. >> And I wrote a note. I'm seeing crazy Jupiter. So Jupiter now is, you know, is
01:21:12
at 10° of Sagittarius, and we talked about this sort of, you know, this amplification and this magnification.
01:21:18
And I think that that growth and that dynamism that was happening here in terms of the way that he was doing and
01:21:25
the extent of the violence was also him getting crazier. I mean, obviously. But the reason that I bring that up is
01:21:33
because something is changing in him, too. You know what I mean? It's not just like,
01:21:39
"Oh, I'm learning how to do this and I like what I'm doing, so let me like up the ante for the next one." It's
01:21:46
also like he is absolutely unraveling. Yeah, like where where do you go from here?
01:21:51
Sagittarius is known to like have a sense of escapism, right? And then Jupiter's going to expand that, so maybe
01:21:57
he's trying to escape from himself, and that's why he wants to get caught here. >> to get caught. He 100% wants to get
01:22:03
caught. >> to get out of this cycle. He took his time here. He wasn't frenzied through
01:22:07
this whole thing because he placed like organs under her head. He like placed some under her legs. So
01:22:13
like he was He's just going nuts. >> scene. Like he was And like with this one, too, which is interesting, he took
01:22:20
her heart. Like just her heart. Took it and never found it. Took it from the scene, they
01:22:26
never found her heart. And for her for the organ to be the heart that he takes this time That's so significant.
01:22:33
>> Like that's their significance. What do you think about that? >> Yeah. Well, it's interesting. I mean, in
01:22:39
medical astrology, the heart is associated with Leo. Um Saturn is in Leo in this chart in all of these. We had
01:22:48
Saturn in Leo. And there is this very much of, you know, this energy of ego and sort of
01:22:56
making your mark. I mean, I think it's very performative. I think it's very much about sort of like, "And now I take
01:23:02
your heart." And like this is your life force. Your life force. And like this is
01:23:06
the testament of like taking something from you that is like also symbolic of love and symbolic of
01:23:12
affection and connection, but it's like I'm taking everything away from you. >> Yes. Take it to Take your heart is to
01:23:18
take your ability to be alive. >> Yeah, your vitality. Makes you everything. >> Yes. To take what makes you human.
01:23:24
And this, I suppose, could go cuz I'm thinking about it and I'm like, okay, if this is like a medical person,
01:23:33
I think it is. Which I believe it is, but I wonder, too, like at that time what they considered the like the life
01:23:40
force. >> Humanity of you? Your brain or your heart? Yes. And to me, it feels like
01:23:44
maybe like I think now they look at it more like your brain is probably what makes you human. When you're brain dead,
01:23:50
nothing else can really happen. But back then, I wonder if it was a little more like romanticized where it's
01:23:56
like the heart is the thing that makes you human. And like in the beginning, we were saying how
01:24:02
like he looks at these women, I think, as subhuman, not human. And I think he was making sure that everyone else saw
01:24:08
them that way. This is his like magnum opus of like, "See, she doesn't even have a heart. She's not even human.
01:24:16
Like that's what makes you love, that's what makes you kind, that's what makes you a good person, and I took it. She
01:24:20
doesn't even have that." Yeah. Like it feels so significant. >> loving. She's not worth remembering.
01:24:25
>> She doesn't even have a heart. In in his Which means And it's also Yeah, it's
01:24:29
also very much sort of like, "I am in charge of you. >> Yep. I own you." >> I I have this now, and I always will.
01:24:35
>> Yeah. And I wonder if it's like that, and that makes me think, too, that whoever it was that he was thinking of
01:24:41
when he killed these women was in his mind cruel and unloving, which could be a mother, could be a
01:24:48
wife, could be a I mean, it could be a sister. It could be anybody that he saw as this person that was close to him.
01:24:53
>> prominent female, for sure. >> Yeah. I think I think you're definitely on to something with that. Uh the moon
01:24:59
was also in Capricorn on this on this night, November 9th, 1888. >> Tai. >> Well, moon in Capricorn, and, you know,
01:25:08
I don't want to this For anyone who has a moon in Capricorn who's listening, you are not Jack the
01:25:13
Ripper, so don't don't [laughter] personalize this. This This is about him. Not you.
01:25:20
But the moon is considered to be in a very compromised place in Capricorn. Um Capricorn, you know, the moon represents
01:25:29
the mother. Mhm. And the moon is is how we take care of ourselves, how we're taken care of. It's in its
01:25:36
domicile, it's in its home base in the sign of Cancer. It's very nurturing, loving, maternal, supportive. Capricorn,
01:25:42
it's opposite sign, which is also connected to the south node of past lives. So another indication that this
01:25:48
is something historic that he's replaying here. But the moon in Capricorn is like
01:25:54
mommy issues 101. Because that's like >> This man has mommy issues. He absolutely
01:26:00
does. >> That's like your mom being your biggest critic. >> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
01:26:06
And of course, you know, we still have uh And also you being heartless Mhm. literally
01:26:12
>> [laughter] >> Yeah. about your mom. Because Capricorn is ruled by Saturn, and it is um it it's
01:26:20
it does not have time for emotions. It does not want to be sweet and tender. It wants to [laughter] It's rules. It's
01:26:28
rigid. Yeah, it's by the book. It's by the book. So >> Which is also like maybe that's why his
01:26:36
like mom probably was somebody who was against sex work. It was wrong. It was against the book like in in her mind.
01:26:42
And maybe that's why he felt this way. >> it could be that, or it could be I mean,
01:26:45
in astrology and all spirituality, opposites are the same, you know? To be so against sex work is to be a sex
01:26:51
worker, right? It's like it it ultimately like sort of it's its own tail, right?
01:26:57
And I think that a moon in Capricorn, you know, if we were to do this sort of psychological analysis of it, it's
01:27:05
it's feeling like you weren't loved. So to me, this would indicate more of maybe a mother who was out, you know,
01:27:13
using her body with a lot of men, doing something that, you know, wasn't neglectful to her
01:27:21
children, to this Jack the Ripper. >> It does feel that way. Like just not connected. And I'm saying using her body
01:27:29
kind of almost in a channeling sort of way of as I'm thinking of how he would be perceiving it.
01:27:34
>> Yeah. Yeah. So then to mutilate these bodies and to rip them apart and to take
01:27:39
apart the bodies, it's like you >> that you have. >> Yeah. It's like I I'm deconstructing
01:27:44
this. Who is my mother? Who is the body of my mother? I I 100% think that that is what it is,
01:27:54
that his mother was likely sex worker and was not around or something of that cuz I mean, you look at a lot of
01:28:02
unfortunately, the Canonical Five especially, or any of the ones that aren't the Canonical Five, but have been
01:28:07
mentioned in the Whitechapel murder file, they have a sim like there's a sad path
01:28:13
of like sound a lot of them in the past. >> kids, and they'll do their best to try
01:28:18
to be there, but then they end up on the streets again and having to do this, and
01:28:23
they end up like not seeing their kids, or they do see their kids, and they have
01:28:25
these like strange relationships, but they're always trying to get back to that like mother role of like being
01:28:32
there, and it's just not attainable. >> So it is a thing that happened so often there, and so often in Whitechapel in
01:28:39
that time period, >> And so much so that it would be rooted in the history of it.
01:28:43
>> Yeah, it wouldn't be shocking that this could be a younger guy like in his 20s,
01:28:48
you know, who had a mother or has a mother who was going through a similar thing. And could still be on the streets
01:28:55
right now doing that. Like who knows? >> And we haven't brought up the fact that
01:29:00
all of these women are also alcoholics. >> All of them. And they all have nicknames
01:29:04
like associated with their alcoholism. And even on the nights of their death, you know,
01:29:09
many of them are drunk. Many of them were seen drunk. They were in jail because they were drunk that night. In
01:29:17
And this time and in this place it's like those lifestyles coexist, right? It's it's difficult to get out of the
01:29:24
situation when you also are struggling with addiction and then you also have to sort of work
01:29:30
in a field that allows you to have and enables your addiction and you know, addiction, right? An addiction is going
01:29:37
to make you very very difficult for you to be a good mom. It's very hard to be present for your kid and I'm sure that
01:29:44
it's even worse than that. I'm sure that this Jack the Ripper was also probably like sexually abused. He could have been
01:29:50
sexually abused by his mother, you know? I'm sure it's the darkest and most horrific version of the story because
01:29:56
these are the darkest and most horrific ways of expressing that, you know, and processing that pain. And wasn't the I'm
01:30:05
I think the kidney, the From Hell kidney, was in some sort of was in the mind. It was in a spirit. So it's like
01:30:13
was was that true? I mean that's also preserving it. You know, alcohol is part of that. Like alcohol is part of
01:30:20
this whole thing. Alcohol has to be part of it. It really does. I think we're solving
01:30:26
it, guys. We are. We're in process. We're figuring this out. So that's our that's that's our last spitfire lady yes
01:30:35
of which they were all were we remember them all. We have names for them all which is pretty interesting and
01:30:41
you know, cool I guess. Okay. And the astrology just makes so much sense. It really does and it's
01:30:50
it really is that whole like there are no coincidences. The odds of most of this stuff is
01:30:55
astronomical. >> [music] [music] >> So then we get into our funny cast of characters.
01:31:14
We have Sir Charles Warren, Sir Charles Warren, the head of the London Metropolitan
01:31:21
Police came in in that role in 1886, left in 1888. Not long. Not long. >> [laughter]
01:31:33
>> So he was a an Aquarius sun and an Aries moon and the first thing that I jotted down
01:31:45
when I was looking at his chart was that oh he hates being told what to do. And he has a temper and he looks out for
01:31:53
himself and he is not an easy person to collaborate with. Yeah. And you know, we
01:32:00
have some other placements as well that are interesting here. He was he has a Saturn in
01:32:06
Sagittarius. He has his Jupiter in Scorpio which means his Jupiter return was happening
01:32:15
during this time. And like coinciding with Jupiter. He also the first murder which is sort
01:32:24
of you know, the birth chart of these murders coincided with his south node of fate and destiny.
01:32:32
So there was this between having a Jupiter return in Scorpio which is you know, it happens every 12 years and
01:32:39
it's supposed to be a very auspicious time. We typically consider it this time of like luck and abundance and good
01:32:45
things coming in. There were a lot of things that were happening all at the same time.
01:32:51
Bloody Sunday happened just a year before November 13th, 1887 which you know, he was sort of the he called for
01:33:00
that police brutality that was taking place then. So he had previously been thought of as this sort of like more
01:33:06
progressive guy. He was an archaeologist. He was an academic. And then suddenly he becomes this like
01:33:16
tough guy. Yeah and and that's not like what his skills were. >> [laughter] >> That's not what he was good at. So it's
01:33:24
almost like and this happens in astrology. It's like if you're going down the wrong path, the universe is
01:33:30
going to like push you back on the other. He ended up going back into more academic work.
01:33:36
And into better suited for it. Yes. So yeah, I thought that that was so interesting because he was you know,
01:33:43
he's someone who was kind of like he wasn't in he wasn't doing the right kind of work for
01:33:50
being this Aquarius sun of like oh let's go and explore Palestine and think about
01:33:55
like these different regions of the world. The first picture that you see when you Google him is like him you
01:34:02
know, in some exotic location with like the colonial apparel on. And that's honestly the vibe
01:34:10
that he gives anyways. When you look at a picture of him, you're like what are you doing? What are you doing here?
01:34:15
You got a big old mustache. What are you doing? Yes. >> [laughter] >> Yes. And not this cuz you're not
01:34:25
>> [laughter] >> I mean it's your right the him [clears throat] having that graffiti
01:34:29
cleaned off before they could even come and take a picture of it right there. He
01:34:33
was like oh come on. This isn't nice. Hey don't say that. Come on. You got to keep you got to take
01:34:40
a picture of it, my guy. Like he messed up. That's not how a crime scene works. And he didn't even realize that that was
01:34:45
going to make him look bad too. Like he wasn't even thinking that way cuz he's just not good at it. Yeah.
01:34:50
Yeah, this was this was not his skill set. So he resigned literally on the day of the last murder
01:34:58
which is another tank, another there are no coincidences. Very interesting. But you know, with having the head of
01:35:05
the police department resigning at this time, I think it also speaks to just like the chaos and the kookiness
01:35:12
of the investigation at this time. It's just like you know what? It's like you're all the way in. [laughter] We're
01:35:18
not doing it anymore. We're so deep. And now somebody else just has to take this on from from this. And that also
01:35:24
it's like the looking out for yourself thing. Like my guy. Like you're really in the thick of like
01:35:31
something horrible happening in this community and you're like you know what? I don't want the criticism.
01:35:37
I can't take it. I've had enough. I've had enough. Every man for himself. That's enough
01:35:42
bossing me around. >> [laughter] >> Do it yourself. Figure it out. Bones. He said no. I don't want to deal
01:35:50
with this anymore. Yeah and and ultimately like better for him. But it's interesting that that was his Jupiter
01:35:58
return. You know, his Jupiter return was like I'm in the wrong place. I'm in the
01:36:01
wrong field. And for us that kind of like sucks because his self-actualization journey
01:36:09
means that we don't know who Jack the Ripper is and probably if we had somebody who was like a little more
01:36:13
locked in like some of these some of the people who came in later on. Exactly. A little more of your passion.
01:36:21
>> [laughter] >> A little more of your mission, your dharma if you will. What you're good at.
01:36:26
Go with your skill set. And then we have Donald Swanson. So he was in charge of overseeing the
01:36:33
Jack Ripper murders. Him and Robert Anderson who is like probably the funniest character here.
01:36:41
Out to lunch. Literally. He was in Switzerland for most of the murders. And then he was on
01:36:47
vacation again. I have one more family vacation left. I was just >> [laughter] >> going to say.
01:36:54
He was like you'll be utilizing that. He was like they said if I don't use it, I
01:36:57
lose it. So I'm I'm going to go. I'll be in Sweden. Like damn. So the two of them together I
01:37:05
sort of see them like they work together. They were sort of passing the torch back and forth when when Robert
01:37:10
Anderson was out, you know. Out of office on, >> [laughter] >> Donald Swanson was coming in. So Donald
01:37:18
Swanson, a Leo sun, a Capricorn moon. So Robert Anderson, a Gemini sun and a Virgo moon.
01:37:29
So it's that reverse of something that we've already started to see. Yes. Gemini and Virgo.
01:37:36
So what's kind of interesting cuz I was musing on this one in particular where I
01:37:40
was like okay, well we know that this is these are important placements for the murder's chart, right? The chart of the
01:37:47
murder, Polly Nichols chart, she was the reverse of it. So what does it mean? He also had
01:37:55
Neptune and Pluto directly on his sun. So that's signature that we're tracking through all of this. Like he was being
01:38:02
activated. I'm like is he the murderer? >> [laughter] >> That's why he keeps dipping to Sweden.
01:38:06
But he does something interesting in the case which is that he obviously he and Swanson feel
01:38:15
shame for not finding him. So they are the ones who bring in Aaron. They're the ones who start talking about
01:38:24
Polish Jews. And that whole narrative really begins under their watch. And to me, you know, when we go back to
01:38:34
the story of communication and storytelling which is the signature of this chart and this whole narrative,
01:38:40
it's like this is how you tell a story, right? You find a scapegoat. Also. And this is not to say that you know, I
01:38:49
don't want to completely rule out Aaron Kaminski. Is that his name? Kaminski. Because there's some really interesting
01:38:59
things we have to look at in his chart. Some really like like your where our heads are going to explode when we see
01:39:05
his chart. I'm scared. And the relationship between Robert Anderson's chart and his chart. Mhm. So,
01:39:14
a little spoiler, a little tease, if you will, of what could come. But, he establishes him and but then Swanson
01:39:22
doubles down on it and writes in like the margins of like it was him. Like, ooh. Yeah, like his deathbed, like
01:39:29
>> Yeah. Right. He's like, he did it. He did it. And I think it's Is it Swanson?
01:39:34
Swanson took [clears throat] really like detailed, intricate like research notes
01:39:41
>> Okay. on this case. Like, he went deep. >> And he is a Moon in Capricorn. Oh, so he
01:39:46
is >> There you go. >> [laughter] >> So, that's why. A Leo Sun, Capricorn Moon. >> Oh, there you go. He's kind of destined
01:39:52
for his role. Yeah, in this all. >> Yes. He was very serious. >> Right. He was very serious about his
01:39:58
work, his job. He was very serious about picking up the slack, I think, for Robert Anderson.
01:40:03
Um but ultimately was there were details that he got twisted at the end. >> Yeah. He was also
01:40:13
>> Well, he was also the person who I wrote it here in my notes, he believed it to
01:40:18
be Kosminski. But, the death details that he has around him don't add up. >> Mhm. He's When he says that it's
01:40:26
Kosminski he already And he's like, but Kosminski died a long time ago. He ha- He hadn't died yet.
01:40:34
>> Yeah. So, He was conflating him with So, he was conflating him with another Polish Jew in the area whose name was
01:40:41
Aaron David Cohen, potentially, but then Cohen was sort of the anglicized version
01:40:46
of more Polish name. And at some point their files were actually Two Aarons become
01:40:53
Yes, exactly. >> [laughter] >> When Aarons collide. Gemini. Yeah. More Gemini energy. Gemini
01:40:58
is the twins, right? So, there was this sort of like conflating and he's we're we're looking to these two people to
01:41:05
sort of be like, well, you have all these notes. What do you think, guys? Yeah. What's
01:41:10
your finding? And they can't even get the names right for these people. Yeah. And to me, then this also goes back to
01:41:17
the undercurrent of then the sort of subplot of the anti-Semitism in Whitechapel. Yep.
01:41:23
>> And this makes that graffiti to me really important as a detail of just even time and place.
01:41:29
>> Oh, for sure. >> Where we have anti-Semitism here in this community and it's building and we also we all know
01:41:36
where things go in Europe >> Exactly. Not long after that. >> That's right. So, it's an important
01:41:41
detail. >> are moving in. And then we have a unsolved case and we have these immigrants in the community who
01:41:50
are also going into insane asylums. >> Yeah. Maybe for good reasons, maybe for medium reasons, but whatever it is, it's
01:41:57
very easy to be like It was them. Yeah. And they're dead and locked up, so don't
01:42:02
worry. It's done. Case closed. >> Nobody else talk about it anymore. You can all sleep soundly. Yes. And that
01:42:08
happens now. Oh, yeah. It happens now where police will rush in It happens less, luckily, now, but like these big
01:42:15
cases will happen and they'll rush to pin it on someone. West Memphis 3 is a key one. Yeah. Where he said himself
01:42:23
>> back for those stars. >> we should do those stars, for sure. Where it was like three eight-year-olds
01:42:28
who got murdered, so of course the community is up in arms. Wants this solved, wants to find out who did it.
01:42:34
They found the first three kids they could pin it on Yeah. And we're like, so it's fine. They did it. Don't worry
01:42:39
about it. >> Now they're locked up. Is this the Is this the Damien Echols case? Yeah. That
01:42:44
story is crazy and the the police chief they they asked him He had zero evidence
01:42:49
to arrest them and he they asked him at a press conference. Yeah, the satanic panic.
01:42:53
>> lies and like false testimonies. >> asked him on a scale of zero to 10, how tight is your case? And he said, 11.
01:43:00
>> Yeah. And it's like he didn't have a shred of evidence against these kids. >> With no physical evidence whatsoever.
01:43:05
>> Sometimes police departments feel like they need to put out that like, we are
01:43:10
so confident about this, so everyone else should be. >> Mhm. And it's it's so stop talking about
01:43:15
it. >> Yeah, in fact, we did this with >> have any more questions. >> Richard Speck. We just co- We just
01:43:19
covered that case. They had nothing. They had no leads, absolutely not a shred of evidence, but they came out to
01:43:24
the people in the press and said, we're super confident that we have we have we have so many leads, leads up the butt.
01:43:32
We are >> We know what we're doing. Because it's embarrassing for the police You know,
01:43:37
there's a lot of It's your job. >> Yeah. It's your job. And in the public can build to a crescendo of chaos.
01:43:44
>> there's not a lot of understanding. There's not a lot of room for that. Yeah. So, I think that was part of this
01:43:49
is they were like It's fine. He's in an asylum. He's who you thought he was. He's an immigrant.
01:43:55
What Didn't we all know that? Like, that kind of thing. So, it just pleases everybody. Like, shut up. It's fine. We
01:44:00
did our job. We figured out who the bad guy was. Like, the end. >> Yeah. So, maybe let's look at at Aaron's
01:44:07
chart here. >> We need I'm so excited. I just have our brain rocked. Especially because
01:44:14
Aaron is a Virgo Sun, Gemini Moon. And that is >> [laughter] >> what Polly was. Whoa. That's everything.
01:44:24
>> the Sun and Moon were at the first murder. Whoa. That >> [laughter] >> Hello. Wow.
01:44:36
>> Hello. Wow. That's damn Damn. Okay, tell us more. What else could I say? >> [laughter]
01:44:44
>> That's it. You're like, I already Case closed. You're like, that's it. Case closed. You don't need the mitochondria
01:44:49
No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. [laughter] Um So, you know, it's interesting
01:44:53
because obviously he has a very important He was born September 11th. Maybe a tank, I don't know. September
01:45:00
11th, 1865 um in somewhere I can't pronounce, Poland. >> [laughter] >> Płock, Poland. Poland. There you go.
01:45:08
>> Bear with me. Um and he I wrote it Basically, I just wrote all over this, has the same Sun and Moon as Molly
01:45:16
Nichols and the same Sun and Moon as the birth chart for her death and for the first murder. That's so weird. That's
01:45:24
>> So, what? Yeah, like what does that mean? What does that mean? >> Again, that's crazy coincidental.
01:45:29
>> He also had Jupiter in Sagittarius. And Jupiter at the last murder, when we said that Jupiter in Sagittarius was
01:45:39
that big crazy energy, it was exact to his. The exact degree. >> Exact degree. The final degree. Damn.
01:45:47
There's 30 degrees in each. >> Yeah, zero to 29. That That's weird. I'm just like, that's
01:45:54
weird. >> And not only that, but remember a Gemini Moon and especially his is at 8 degrees, it
01:46:01
was exactly conjunct the Neptune Pluto signature. Yep. That is this distinctive signature of the
01:46:08
>> So, he is fully like It's like those Yeah, those puzzle pieces that just Yeah. He just locks in.
01:46:14
>> He locks in. Um And the person who >> Ripper Aaron? The person who I know. I The person who accused him,
01:46:25
Anderson, right? >> Anderson was the one who first, I think, came up with it and then Swanson kind of
01:46:30
outed him. >> [laughter] >> Yeah, Swanson wrote it in the margins. >> like, it was him. He's like, hell yeah.
01:46:34
Yeah. Kosminski. Who's hell yeah, brother. So, he Remember, he is the reverse of
01:46:40
that. Right. So, he also it's like they're these mirror images. So, they're sort of circling each other. Like, so
01:46:46
entwined and that. Yeah, that's pretty wild. So, it's really interesting to me. >> Yeah.
01:46:53
>> Because So, he's a very easy scapegoat, right? Let's Let's hold the how the chart shows up as
01:47:01
something significant that we can't ignore. And then also recognize that he was nonviolent.
01:47:08
He matches the description of somebody who could do this cuz he was a mentally ill local man, but he did not have a
01:47:14
history of any you know, he does not have a history of violence towards women. He doesn't have a history of
01:47:20
violence in general. Um he was very frail. One of the issues that one of his mental illness
01:47:29
expressions was he refused to eat. So, there's reports of him weighing like 98 lb.
01:47:35
>> Yeah. He's not going to be frenzied for 2 hours in a room. >> do it. >> There's no way. He was a I think he was
01:47:40
a barber at one point, which back then barbers did have anatomical knowledge, but
01:47:45
>> degree, though. >> degree and when you add the frail- frailty in it. He also I Well, here's
01:47:50
another piece of the communication is that he basically only spoke Yiddish. Oh. >> He did not speak English.
01:47:59
>> would not be able to write those letters. >> Be Yeah. And the communication from them
01:48:04
>> Yeah, these ladies to go into dark alleys with him. Yeah, right. That's true. But, that's another communication
01:48:10
narrative of this story. >> Yes. So, it's interesting because we have this person who I you know
01:48:18
is kind of a a perfect storm for someone that we can pin it on, right? But, then we also have
01:48:27
the shawl that keeps coming back. Like, the New York Times article about astrology not being real keeps coming
01:48:33
back. This shawl and this evidence, which I know we have we put your insert in here already,
01:48:38
>> [laughter] >> but the fact that like this we can't seem to divorce We can't get
01:48:44
away from it. >> Yeah. this suspect from the from this murder and but my in my heart, like,
01:48:52
it's not him. >> Yeah. It just doesn't make sense. I think it's because he's the one I think
01:48:57
Swanson putting that little footnote in there and it being such like a weird little like, it was him.
01:49:04
>> Right. I think that was the thing that just like you can like a hang a hat on
01:49:08
that really easily, you know what I mean? Cuz that's the one that like endures >> Right.
01:49:13
>> as the name. Yeah. But the fact that it was conflated with another name, first
01:49:16
of all, they didn't even know who they were talking about there. So, we don't even know if he meant this Kosminski.
01:49:22
>> have meant the other guy in town. >> Yeah, and they were like really old and like writing memoirs and they were like,
01:49:27
you know, >> like, Oh, we'll give you the the big the big ending by the book. >> There was a couple of Aarons in there,
01:49:32
why not? Well, maybe the whole him fitting so perfectly into the puzzle piece is just you're going to be a part
01:49:40
of this forever, even if you're not the Yeah. >> person who did this. Your name is going
01:49:44
to be associated with it. >> that is your destiny. >> Yeah. Yeah, you're part of it.
01:49:47
>> Your destiny is to be another piece of the story. He is part of the story whether or not he is Jack the Ripper.
01:49:55
Exactly. And I think that when we look at him in this story and him and Polly Nichols, you know, having the same sun
01:50:06
and moon, Mhm. the the the the suspect, the alleged murderer, and the first victim, and then the sun and the moon
01:50:13
being in those same points on the first murder, it's like of course he would get
01:50:19
swept up in the energy of this. >> Yeah. Yeah, he's part of the energy of this. >> Yes, he is.
01:50:23
>> Whether he And he's also part of the zeitgeist of that moment. >> Yeah. Right. Mhm.
01:50:29
And him having a Jupiter return um at the, you know, at the moment of this final most brutal and horrific
01:50:37
murder, is that a tank? You know, is there no coincidences about that? And then suddenly it's like, well, we're going to
01:50:43
direct the attention over here. But also in his life, he was falling apart, too.
01:50:48
>> Yeah. Right? In his own >> a different way. >> potentially separate life. His mental
01:50:53
illness was getting worse. He wasn't eating. He had to move back in with his family.
01:50:58
>> Yeah. He was put in an asylum. Mhm. So, it's to me it's just it's like sliding
01:51:05
>> Yeah. Yeah. He was put into an asylum in 1891. Um and he was listed as a suspect in
01:51:13
1894. So, he wasn't even initially listed as a suspect. So, to me what I think is also
01:51:19
interesting, it's like these years go by. We have, you know, uh five plus years now. And we have
01:51:28
a person and I don't think that they had an astrologer working with them at this
01:51:32
time. They probably should have. >> They should have. >> have a person who is the chart for the
01:51:37
murder. Mhm. So, it's like, well, here it is. Yeah, throw it all on him. >> This is this is the same. And again,
01:51:44
it's so easy to do with someone who's been put in an asylum to just be like, well, he did it. Yes.
01:51:49
>> why it stopped there. >> it stopped. And it's over and everyone you can go back to your normal lives.
01:51:55
>> And it seemed and it's like that narrative fits to a degree where you're just like, well, of course nothing else
01:52:00
happened after this. He's in an asylum. It stopped. But it's like, babe, I don't
01:52:04
think you would have kept going anyway. Well, he was also getting ready to leave. That was the finale. I think that
01:52:09
was it. That was the crescendo. That was the apex. That was the finale. That was
01:52:13
Elfine and he was going to be done with it. >> Yeah. It's like, so I don't think that
01:52:17
people will say like that's, well, obviously he was in an asylum. That's why he couldn't do anything else. And
01:52:21
it's like he wasn't going to. >> No, that wasn't the plan. >> Like that was it. He he had done his
01:52:25
master plan. Who knows if he started a whole different series of something somewhere else later or if that was it.
01:52:31
>> Right. >> And he either killed himself, he got caught doing something else, like
01:52:35
whatever. But I don't think he was going to keep going the same way he was. >> Well, he also didn't get put into an
01:52:39
asylum for another 3 years. So, So, it didn't stop him. Cuz he he was doing these in quick succession.
01:52:46
>> would have had to have been completely mad at that point at the end of the Mary Jane Kelly murders. So, it
01:52:51
wouldn't have taken 3 years for him to end up Yeah. >> I think that it could have been someone
01:52:56
who had a similar profile to him. You know, it could have been another local lunatic, obviously. But like it's not I
01:53:04
don't think that it's based on even just the physical description and what the manifestations of his mental illness
01:53:10
were, I don't think it could have physically been him. You need to have the strength, stamina to do that. All of
01:53:18
the above. >> And again, the knowledge, the patience, a steady hand. Yeah. >> They had all these things.
01:53:23
>> Yeah. But now my favorite um person on the case comes in. So, my favorite is Abberline.
01:53:32
>> Yes. Do you like Abberline, too? I I love him. Remember, we talked a whole bunch about him.
01:53:36
>> Yes. So, Abberline comes in and is like, step aside. I got this guy. >> him. Oh, yeah.
01:53:43
So, um you know why you love Abberline? He's a Capricorn. >> Oh. >> [laughter] >> Of course he's got this. Of course he
01:53:49
does. And of course he says, step aside. >> shut the hell up, everybody. I got This
01:53:52
is a solo [laughter] investigation now. So, he's a Capricorn. This solo investigation.
01:53:58
>> [laughter] >> He's a Capricorn sun and he's an Aries moon. Oh. >> But this rocked me.
01:54:05
So, his moon and Pluto, which, you know, we've talked about Pluto, are conjunct in his chart.
01:54:11
So, moon in Aries, Pluto in Aries in his chart. And when I was jotting down, you
01:54:17
know, when I was just sort of musing on this, I wrote very strong connection to women.
01:54:21
And he if this energy could almost express itself as wanting to be like an Avenger the hero for women. Oh, yeah.
01:54:29
And then as I was, you know, pulling up his bio and understanding his role, I found that he was raised by a single
01:54:35
mom. >> Yep. Wow, yeah. And I >> I I got goosebumps because I was like, oh my gosh, he understood the humanity
01:54:43
of this case >> Yeah. in a way that some of these other >> They did not. guys just like
01:54:48
they were thinking about their own ego, they were thinking about their vacation days.
01:54:53
>> [laughter] >> They were just not locked in. They weren't locked in. But he was locked in
01:54:59
and something that also was an interesting testament to that was the fact that he would patrol the streets
01:55:04
himself and also with his, you know, with other police officers that he would sort of put in charge of that. And they
01:55:11
would give women money to go into shelters for the night and to have beds so that while they didn't know what was
01:55:19
going on, that they could be safe in the middle of the night. So, he was like actively trying to protect
01:55:25
>> for women, like literally. So, if I were to like cast this, we would make this
01:55:31
sort of the the hero sort of mirror image to the Jack the Ripper >> Oh, yeah. who hates women. Right. Who is
01:55:38
the antithesis of that. >> Yeah. Who hates women. So, it's to me like seeing that moon Pluto in Aries
01:55:46
signature and then he also has the sun conjunct Saturn both in Capricorn in his chart. Very serious, very committed.
01:55:55
Also, you know, if I were to see this in a chart of just anybody now, I would say
01:55:58
like, oh, you were the you had to be the parent of your household. You know, you
01:56:02
were probably very you had to grow up really fast and take on a lot of responsibilities. That obviously checks
01:56:08
out for his upbringing. You know, his dad died when he was young and his he was raised by his single mom, right? So,
01:56:14
he had to figure out how to take matters into his own hands. >> Take on his father's role or something.
01:56:19
>> Take on the father's role and he kind of, you know, in this story of all of these different inspectors, sort of
01:56:24
became the only one who who really I feel like was sensitive to the conditions. And he believed that George
01:56:33
Chapman was Mhm. Jack the Ripper. Okay. And George Chapman, who we have his chart,
01:56:41
>> Okay. who is a serial who is a serial killer, >> Mhm. hates women. Ding ding ding.
01:56:47
>> Boom. >> [laughter] >> And like you said that was his finale, but maybe he started doing stuff else
01:56:52
there. >> have done something else. That was >> Cuz I don't think after that you're
01:56:55
going to stop killing entirely. >> No, I don't think he was. have fun with that, you know.
01:57:00
>> There's definitely something something there. But yeah, I think I think he maybe switched to a different
01:57:06
place or he switched to a different >> method. [clears throat] >> MO, you know. So, George Chapman, um who was
01:57:14
uh who was executed for the murders that he ended up being convicted for. Um which was three women who were his
01:57:22
mistresses. And he basically, you know, he would poison them to death. Um but he was also very, very violent.
01:57:29
And he was very physically abusive to all of the women. But he was a womanizer. He had lots of relationships
01:57:34
and women around him and he was jumping from one marriage to the next and making
01:57:38
women call themselves his wife and then he was bringing other women home. And it's like basically he was trying to
01:57:42
have a harem. Um And he was a serial killer, right? So, he was born on December 14th, 1865,
01:57:51
making him a Sagittarius. And also meaning that he was connected to, as well, that Jupiter in Sagittarius energy
01:58:00
that we saw building, right? That crescendo of energy. This his sun in Sagittarius is
01:58:05
going to be amplified by Jupiter. And Sagittarius is the opposite of Gemini. And we had that Neptune Pluto Gemini
01:58:14
signature. So, he's also directly locked in, too. So, to me, I think that he fits
01:58:20
in to this puzzle as well. >> definitely. >> And he has a moon in Scorpio and a Saturn conjunction to his moon in
01:58:30
Scorpio. My note here is he hates women. >> Yeah, he does. Just in the way that we
01:58:36
talked about the moon and Capricorn being really harsh and sort of like having no emotions, the moon in Scorpio
01:58:43
is also it's considered to be in its fall in this placement. It is like a dark energy.
01:58:50
>> Uh yeah, there's shame. There's weird sex stuff. There's weird power stuff. There's weird probably Oedipus things.
01:58:56
Wanting to have sex with your own mother things, you know? Like there's very a very dark and complicated relationship
01:59:03
with women to any of our moon in Scorpio people listening I'm not talking about you I'm talking
01:59:09
about a serial killer perfect set of circumstances also not to mention that there's a meme that lists
01:59:18
the the astrological signs of like all of the most iconic serial killers and they're all mutable signs they're all
01:59:26
Virgos Gemini Sagittarius or Pisces Oh damn because you have to have that sort of like changeability duality yes
01:59:34
of course we also have Aaron who is a Virgo sun so he would also fit that bill as well
01:59:41
it's interesting because like one of the things that I that I remember being like
01:59:46
against him that people were like no it's not him is they were like he's not going to do these brutal eviscerations
01:59:51
and then switch to poisoning his wives like those are two different MO's and it's like maybe he is because he was
01:59:57
done here and also or he looked at those canonical five that's what I was thinking those are sex
02:00:05
workers so he's going to rip them apart and make them not human anymore his wives he treats them horribly but they
02:00:12
get a step up and they get with him they get the more like you know higher class
02:00:18
way of dying and he also gets to watch them die slowly and even more to your point
02:00:24
there are the sex workers who he just totally brutalizes there are the mistresses that he poisons and
02:00:30
brutalizes and then there are his wives that he just physically abuses just there is a hierarchy there is a
02:00:39
hierarchy he is literally treating them how he kills these people which even like lends itself to to the fact that he
02:00:46
went into this with a plan and that's why maybe there really was just supposed to be four and he's methodical in the
02:00:52
way that he planned this whole thing Yeah I think I believe he went in thinking he was going to get four it's
02:00:57
almost like different projects for him Yeah and I think that once I mean where do you go after that last murder Yeah
02:01:06
that's the thing you're not just going to go do that again And there is the sort of there is
02:01:11
the same sort of like precise sort of you know he's dosing them there is this obsession with detail and the
02:01:22
anatomy and the body there's a clinical nature to it He was a barber I think at one point I think he was also a barber
02:01:30
which back then barbers did have anatomical knowledge that was a it's like barber surgeon is what they
02:01:36
were like a barber surgeon >> [laughter] >> like the barber pole that's like the red
02:01:41
pole and white pole the red is because they used to hang bloody rags outside and it looked like that pole so that's a
02:01:48
representation of that Yeah Yeah I think it was like an artery and a vein I think is also what
02:01:55
it is Okay yeah that makes perfect sense Yeah So So I mean maybe maybe I would say that of all of these
02:02:05
suspects the strongest yes and also because we have Aberline Frederick Aberline who is like
02:02:12
the women avenger and he's the one who says I know someone who hates women And I know someone like as someone who
02:02:20
loves women I've decided that he loves women he's but I feel it I feel it right and he like and he's giving money
02:02:28
to the women we don't hear about any other character doing that you have to be a lovely [clears throat] person and
02:02:33
think about the time period back then of like those women were not respected by many people at all and this is a high
02:02:38
enforcement like exactly this is a high standing man in society like helping them you know
02:02:45
Did we just solve that that his last name Why didn't I notice that >> Annie Chapman That's his
02:02:54
anglicized name His real last name is Klosowski >> [laughter] >> Which is pretty close to Kosminski real
02:03:03
close to Kosminski Yeah So could these have just been like could there be a lot of like clerical which
02:03:10
would be so mercury Gemini Virgo coded that also of that moment and that happens all the
02:03:18
time in cases like this especially the ones that we talk about that take forever to get solved nine out of 10
02:03:23
times there is a clerical error That [ __ ] everything up and they figured it out wow that's really fascinating
02:03:29
actually I got to look even further into George Chapman and we got to like Guys we're
02:03:34
about to do eight more pretty sure When he died he had no remorse he had no remorse he never was like he didn't say
02:03:44
any last words he didn't say any last words and also think of that he didn't say any
02:03:50
last words and we have storytelling and words as like a piece here so the only thing I mean there's a lot of things
02:03:56
that would weaken this case but one of them is that I do feel like in those murders
02:04:03
in 1888 in those five like there was just such a desire to be caught I can't shake that feeling that whoever which
02:04:11
would make me feel like whoever it was could have just like off themselves right after you know and the reason we
02:04:16
don't know who it is yeah is is just somebody who just like couldn't deal with with the insanity
02:04:23
that they were going through which obviously they had to be Because why did it stop you could say it
02:04:29
stopped because it switched yeah cuz then he went to poisoning right they could have
02:04:35
Just try a little bit of everything see what his favorite is poisons it's like like I said little
02:04:39
projects little projects wow might be George Chapman guys I mean I think it could be
02:04:46
That was fascinating you're so good you are so good my astrology idol I'm sitting here like I got to get this good
02:04:53
>> [laughter] >> Wild >> Well I mean this is it's a real treat this to solve a 150 year old murder
02:05:03
on on this beautiful couch with these beautiful >> [laughter] >> people That's what we're doing here today That
02:05:07
was so cool that was insane thank you so much for that I think we just solved it
02:05:13
now I need to look into George Chapman and I need to make it we got to make a real case Yeah Yeah we got to get on the
02:05:18
Australian wire so we got to get with our clickbait Yeah Forget the shawl look at the charts The
02:05:26
shawl doesn't exist [laughter] What are you talking about >> runner I'm pretty sure stop
02:05:32
>> [laughter] >> Well weirdos we have more stuff upcoming with Elisa we're actually about to
02:05:37
record something entirely different but it's going to be a little while before that comes out so keep your eyes peeled
02:05:43
So before we let you go is there anything you want to plug I would love for you all to listen to my podcast
02:05:50
it's called horoscope weekly episodes come out every Monday and every Wednesday our Monday episodes are
02:05:57
horoscopes for every single sign and they also talk about the astrology weather of the week ahead and there's a
02:06:02
theme of the week that we work with and then the Wednesday episodes are where we
02:06:07
learn astrology we talk about how astrology impacts our lives we go into things like moon signs and the houses
02:06:13
and Saturn and you know you can you can do all of this you can solve cases too and that's the plug listen to horoscope
02:06:21
weekly and solve murders >> [laughter] >> Honeys we leave you with that So we hope you keep listening
02:06:29
>> And we hope you keep It weird But not so weird that you're [music] Jack the Ripper Yeah not that weird
02:06:38
>> [laughter] >> Don't be that weird >> [music] [music] [music] [music] [music] [music]
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[music] [music] [music]