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hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elena and this is more [Music] bed it sure is it's Morad it's Memorial
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Day Monday Morad yeah happy Memorial Day a couple weeks late yep happy Memorial Day two weeks ago I
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hope that you had a day off I hope that you got to Vibe Vibe so hard and I hope that you had a good beach day yeah or
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however you chose to do your day to celebrate your day yeah okay we're doing a little half day we're doing a half day
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a little half day I want to get some wings after this let's [ __ ] go let's [ __ ] go except everything is closed
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so I have to find a place that makes Wings got to find some wangs maybe I'll make my own wangs there you go really
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not I don't want to no definitely not um yeah I think I'm trying to think of any
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any business we have you got some book [ __ ] I know you do the only business I really have is uh there's a giveaway
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contest give away give it away give it away now exactly where you can win a personalized video from me Elena
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personal hello enter your name here and in the video I'll discuss with you some behind the scene [ __ ] about the butcher
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game oh that's cool um we can chitchat a little bit I can tell you about my day I
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can tell you all kinds of stuff that's cool I didn't know it was that yeah I'll give little sneaky peeky into all this I
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would like to do that with like an author that I listen to that I listen to that I read Listen to I love that well
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the way you can do that is by taking you got to pre-order the butcher game I did
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that's the rub everybody that's the catch you got to pre-order the butcher game so if you put in your pre-order or
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if you already have pre-ordered you can submit your receipt a picture of your receipt for your pre-order at the link
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in my bio I put it in my link Tree on Instagram I think it says like the butcher game video contest I like in the
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link you'll find contest yeah it's contest we're going to pick a few people a sweep Stakes a giveaway a
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contest ition will pick a few and you'll get a personalized video so like the only way to win is to pre-order
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pre-order pre-order pre-order porter porter porter and you can go to the butcher game.com and it'll lead you to
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all the links to all the different book sellers and all the different Outlets that you can get your book and you can
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choose which one you would like to support that's that's on you man I support you book adventure yeah and once
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you pre-order you can submit that receipt and you are entered to win and I hope you do it cuz I want to chat with
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you part this is cool want give you a little video I like this idea a lot it's fun
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where' you get this idea just kidding where'd you get this idea get this idea you're like my mind tell me about it
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tell me everything no I like that that's fun yeah it'll be fun so submit those pre-orders my friends yeah do it yeah
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that's fun and exciting yippee I don't have anything fun and exciting I just have a morbid case um and it's an
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interesting one it's very very uh Folly ad do themed I've heard I saw the name of this one and I know this case like
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very briefly yeah but I don't know a lot of the details so I had never heard of this case I've heard I'd heard of the
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movie we're talking about the Heavenly Creatures case today it's the Parker Hume murder yeah I definitely I know the
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like literally the overview of this but I know none of the details yeah I was just looking for you know we're in a
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place of like old timey it's I don't know it's it's an interesting look into the path it is for sure cuz there's
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other factors that always come into it are just not here today yeah exactly and it's just like wow people have always
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been [ __ ] up yeah but yeah I hadn't heard of this particular case I had heard of the movie Heavenly Creatures
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I've never seen it yeah but like I knew it was a movie but I didn't know any of the details and um if you're going into
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this like I was wow prepare you're in for a wild ride so let's get into it Juliet Maran Hume was born October 28th
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1938 in Greenwich London to Henry and Hilda Hume Henry and Hilda he Henry and H Henry was a physicist and Hilda was a
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homemaker they both welcomed the birth of their daughter but motherhood didn't really come naturally to Hilda she
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believed and this is a quote babies had to learn their place and not be pandered
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to and fussed over a wild statement I don't even know where to begin with that statement
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imagine looking at a small baby and being like to learn your your [ __ ] place Place baby I don't even know my
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name and not be pandered to and fussed over they are literally brand new humans like that's that rely on you for
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literally everything that's actually all of it you do have to Pander to them and
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fuss over them whole point yeah I was just having a baby confused by people a lot I'm seeing it was a very different
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time though this was like a time of like children are to be seen and not heard kind of thing like it's not the gentle
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parenting that we know and practice today definitely not but as the look at how well we're all doing I know
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Millennials are doing a much better job Generations later we're still dealing with all this [ __ ] that started way back
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when tell me about it yeah but as the daughter of a presbyterian Minister Hilda was usually rigid in her beliefs
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around the world but she maintained a poised and Polished exterior that kind of appeared to be somewhat conflicting
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with the realities of motherhood like we all know moms were running out here like
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crazy people you're running out there like crazy like here you're out there running around like crazy people yeah
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like we we're a mess but she was like very polished very poised like never had a hair out of place anything like that
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I'm always amazed at moms that can do that but it was also like I'm actually I'm like impressed I'm not saying like
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oh my God yeah I mean some moms like really can do that but I mean and also attend to their children exactly but she
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was more like a more more focusing on her yes exactly that's not good so years later Friends of the couple would recall
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Hilda as aloof and not very warm to children to make matters worse the year that Juliet was born there was talk of
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War breaking out across Europe because Hitler and the Germans ramped up their rhetoric at that point in time and less
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than a year later World War II had broken out and as the British government readied themselves for the inevitable
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attacks it put the entire country in a state of constant anxiety and vigilance that obviously would last for years mhm
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so from a very early age Juliet showed herself to be a very imaginative child she she seemed to have a lot of
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difficulty transitioning back and forth between fantasy play and reality ah years later yeah years later Hilda would
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describe Juliet as a very demanding and sensitive daughter who resisted discipline and resented
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correction so is she just a kid yeah it sounds like it and it sounds like perhaps I mean there are kids that are
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tougher than others it's just the way that life works and it sounds like she might have just been a little bit of a
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tougher kid yeah than what her mom expected kids are sensitive kids are demanding super demanding kids don't
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really love discipline yep they don't really like I don't know that just seems like
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and what you think when you think of like what discipline was back then I think most kids would resist discipline
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because a lot of times discipline was physical I was gonna exactly like discipline back then especially like you
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said was scary and fear-based no child was welcoming that discipline it's human nature to resist a physical punishment
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yeah when you're being when it's fear-based of course you're going to resist it yeah but these behavioral
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problems worsened when her brother Jonathan was born in 1944 or at least in the eyes of people at the time by then
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uh used to being the focus of her parents attention Juliet resented her new sibling which that's not good and
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obviously that became a problem for Hilda and Henry so the the war and her mother's poor health due in part to a
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difficult pregnancy Juliet was often separated from her parents for short periods which caused her to develop a
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rich inner Fantasy Life where she could Retreat whenever she was feeling anxious
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or uneasy it sounded like it was a coping mechanism that like breaks my heart it's sad it really is while Juliet
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struggled to develop a healthy relationship with her mother her relationship with her father was equally
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tenuous as a mid-century British man Henry Hume was kind kind of like stereotypical to a degree he was
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reserved buttoned up and exceedingly proper I just picture this man pinkies up at all times yeah but as a physicist
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his skills were essential in the fight against the threat of the German invasion and by the early 1940s he was
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promoted to the position of deputy director of Naval Operational research so like a big deal damn throughout the
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early 40s he would play an increasingly significant role as a consultant to the scientist on The Manhattan Project W
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working with many of those who actually developed the atomic bomb damn yeah an interesting part of History right there
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that like he was directly connected to and a big part of but given the importance of the role and the urgency
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of his work he was often distracted and didn't have a lot of time for his kids that's really sad well and if you think
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of dads today yeah like dads today are not what dads used to be like obviously there's an exception to every rule of
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course yeah you're not across the board in in the' 40s like dads weren't hands on weren't Millennial dads you know what
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I mean it Millennial dads are different a dad's it was a mom's job so you really
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have to like think about the yeah the social differences oh absolutely it's a totally different situation across the
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board moms dads everything parents in general yeah yeah so when the war ended in 1945 Henry accepted a job as the
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scient or as a scientific adviser to the air Ministry the job was really prestigious but when the war ended in
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1945 he didn't really want to raise a family in the same place so he looked for other options and luckily he came
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across an advertisement seeking applications for academic positions at the Canterbury University College in New
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Zealand so he jumped at this at this chance and his resume being what it was he was a very promising candidate for
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the position and in January of 1948 he was offered a job with the university which he gladly accepted look at him so
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big moves here let's go New Zealand here we come New Zealand now for Juliet the news that the family would be relocating
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to New Zealand was really neither here nor there yeah she's just like whatever well she's been shuffled around a lot at
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10 years old she'd already gone through tons of upheaval she had been sent away before to stay with relatives she had
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spent a lot of time in the hospital so she'd kind of grown accustomed to being away from her parents so it kind of
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seems like she was most likely unsurprised when she was again sent away first she was sent to live with family
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friends in the Bay of islands New Zealand months in advance of her parents arrival Jesus which it's like okay I
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don't I'm not entirely sure why like it's like why can't you all just move at once yeah I'm not understanding this
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family Dynamic but you know what like yeah I don't know if it was a school thing like maybe maybe but uh if Juliet
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was unmoved by the disruption her parents seemed equally unaffected by the separation cool although it was never
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explicitly stated Author Peter Graham wrote it seems that hen Henry Hume were happy to fgo for as long as they could
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the company of their daughter whose quote defects in temperament and personality made her difficult and
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Troublesome to handle she's 10 it was it was like a vacation for them too to be rid of her for there's really no better
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way to say it I don't I don't get this but it she had a tough upbringing 100% there's no way around that and again I
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don't know who Juliet is in this story so I'm not even coming from a place of knowing who she is yeah become someone
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that you don't necessarily want to root for yeah but the the child and listening
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to this without knowing who Juliet ends up being is me saying like that's a bummer for her yeah 10 it is like that's
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just the reality of the situation yeah but once all the arrangements were made and hand and hurdles were cleared the
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family settled in Christ Church the second largest city in New Zealand where 10-year-old Juliet started at the
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prestigious St Margaret's college junior School in November of 1948 I feel like in other parts of the world their school
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have like way cooler names than we do in the US yeah they're more intense it feels they all sound like colleges yeah
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or like universities un I'm going to University going to so much better I know but despite its good reputation
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former students of the school remembered it as a deeply serious and miserable place oh classrooms would darken for no
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reason no one ever wanted to be alone in a in a locker room they said and pupils
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felt like extras in some kind of horror movie wait a [ __ ] sec this place had a good reputation but former students
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are like oh no it's literally the set of a horror movie like what the [ __ ] it had
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a good reputation I think because of um like like test scores and that kind of thing like it had a good reputation on
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paper classrooms would darken for no reason is this the omen Reon no one wanted to be alone in the locker room
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like it this [ __ ] was haunted like this is the Exorcist legit What so um needless to say Juliet was happy to
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leave St Margaret's behind when she finished e8th grade so she was there from the time she was 10 until she was
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in eighth grade damn uh and it was at that point that she transferred to the Christ Church girls high school and it
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was there that she would meet one Pauline Parker okay born May 26 1938 Pauline Parker was what her father later
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described as an average normal child until age five when she developed uh osteomyelitis it's an INF inflammation
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of the bone marrow damn and she got it in one of her legs it's like a ridiculously painful condition and in a
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time before antibiotics it was typically fatal especially in children wow holy [ __ ] as it was Pauline's condition was
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still very serious and she spent almost N9 months in a hospital she underwent numerous surgeries and endured two long
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years of dressing and caring for what was essentially an open wound on her leg oh God yeah in addition to the
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psychological stress of that experience the the physical pain was intense oh yeah and for years after she endured
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episodes of leg pain that actually required Codine and aspirin damn which like Cody that's a lot crazy the
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surgeries also left her with a limp and precluded any participation in sports or
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strenuous play so there was no way she was going to be able to yeah really do any kind of sport ever mhm according to
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her older sister Wendy Pauline developed more sedentary Hobbies including model making and at one point and this is a
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quote went through a period of religious mania oh my so a lot of a lot of turmoil
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a lot of turmoil happening around here and just trauma really like that's traumatic to go through at a young age
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and then to be put on medication like that at a young age like yeah we don't really know what that does to people's
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brains nope but unlike Juliet Pauline's family was solidly middle class her father Bert worked as a fisherman and
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before she had children her mother Nora was an office assistant for years the children assumed that their parents were
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happily married but it would be later revealed that they were in fact actually not married at all because Bert had
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never divorced his first wife Louisa oh so they kind of were like they functioned as a married couple but they
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couldn't be married on paper at least they were happy yeah it sounds like they were pretty happy Bert did his best to
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provide for his family but a long period of economic depression had done a lot of
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damage to New Zealand's middle class and B was one of many who struggled to make
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any kind of Headway leveling up at all yeah like that sucks it's it was a cycle Rosemary Davidson whose family lived
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next door recall the Parker being a Shabby and shambolic house with an air of poverty oh which like that's like
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heartbreaking you're snoody an air of poverty yeah that's snoody you're a snoody toy you're a snoody tooty Judy
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Rosemary Rosemary okay but it sounds like they were happy enough yeah they didn't have money for luxuries they
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didn't have like much to do extra but it sounds like the Parker at least like the
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parents had a small group of friends they were relatively social they were well-liked amongst their neighbors
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except Rosemary except Ro yeah Rosemary thought they smell like poverty but Pauline struggled to make friends same
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old Rosemary Davidson here Rosemary's got a lot to say she really does she she did recall though being afraid of
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Pauline when they were children she said Pauline had a filthy temper filthy temp
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filthy temper and yell and scream if she didn't get her own way okay which like sounds like facts wow but at home things
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were different Pauline had a close relationship with her parents she got along well with her siblings her father
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recalled if she ever did anything wrong she would always say she was sorry she knew she was wrong and that she tried to
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do better I mean that's all you can ask that's literally literally Bert Parker's
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memory of Pauline's childhood is obviously colored by a Father's Love for his daughter and maybe the passage of
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time yes because he remember remembers Pauline as a happy well-mannered girl but others had a decidedly different
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impression of her according to Peter Graham when Pauline entered the girls high school in the winter of 1952 she
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was quote angry and rebellious felt different from the other girls resisted discipline and spoke sarcastically to
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the teachers I do Wonder though and I I'm not saying anybody's lying here anybody's being disingenuous I do always
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wonder in every case when somebody talks about somebody what they were like after
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finding out some something horrible that they did if it suddenly is like a confirmation bias kind of thing where
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you're like well she acted like this you know I mean like if if it seems like it's more uh prevalent than it actually
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is defitely and again I'm not saying that's the case here I just it's something I always think of in these
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cases and this is just happens to be one of those moments where I'm like huh you
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wonder yeah you do and I think a lot of times too like even now when things come
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out people just want to be part of the story so they'll tell you what you want to hearly
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not saying it about this one I'm just it just happened to make me think of it it
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sounds like Pauline was pretty well adjusted at home but it does sound like there's like multiple accounts she was
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Wy outside of school she was Wy in in school or outside of home I mean yeah yeah yeah but this would all change I
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guess when she met Juliet Hume a short time after she started at the school like Pauline Juliet was something of an
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outcast at school she had an IQ of 170 so she was exceedingly intelligent she was confident and she seemed to have
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little interest in forming relationships with the other girls at school she felt
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like their interests were trivial and juvenile she was kind of above it yeah so instead she spent a lot of her time
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fantasizing and coming up with ideas for stories that she hoped to write someday
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oh that's nice yeah she told herself and the other girls who were pretty much as
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uninterested in her as she was in them that they weren't worth her time wow yeah it's entirely likely that Juliet
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would have ignored Pauline just like the other girls but they happened to meet because they were the only students
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Exempted from gym class Pauline because of her leg and Juliet because of some of
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her pulmonary conditions oh yeah cuz she had pneumonia and yeah uh bronchitis like multiple times so as the only two
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not participating they naturally got to talking found that they had a lot in common and became Fast Friends Juliet
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maybe recognized something of herself and Pauline she was a loner she seemed will like willfully and sometimes even
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happily defined of authority and Pauline probably admired Juliet's intelligence Beauty and obvious creativity and while
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the other girls seemed interested in ordinary culture Pauline had also uh developed an interest in poetry
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literature and the other more adult interest that Juliet had developed so they kind of It kind of sounds at least
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at this point like obviously later on more things happen but at this point it almost sounds like they're like two old
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souls that don't really relate to people there age no it does sound like that actually but they find that in each
00:21:01
other yeah and most importantly they also bonded over their history of childhood illness like not a lot of
00:21:07
people know what that's like yeah and especially at the time going through it is I mean childhood illness is always
00:21:14
something you know horrifying and traumatic and it's like back then it was it was a totally different story cuz
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there wasn't even the Comforts that we have now yeah so like she was going through I think it was Pauline was going
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through what was going on with her leg before they even had antibiotics you that's a different story wow and
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like Juliet Pauline's history of physical trauma and isolation at such an early age was something like we were
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just saying the other kids just didn't understand so in Juliet she finally found somebody who understood the
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serious effects that such an intense experience can have on a person years later Hilda Hume would recall Juliet
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returning home from school one afternoon and enthusiastically announcing mommy I've met someone at last with a will as
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strong as my own I actually love that yeah in the beginning it's cool you're like I know I'm like this is nice I'm
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glad you found each other now oh no you won't be soon uhoh The Narrative of Pauline and Juliet's relationship tends
00:22:09
to portray their friendship as one of equals but there was probably some part of Juliet that knew she had the upper
00:22:16
hand if you will she obviously enjoyed having somebody she could share her world with and pass the time with but at
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the same time she also wasn't desperate for social connection she was the one who was happy to be on her own
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PA on the other was frustrated and she was lonely and she saw in Juliet everything she wanted in a friend so
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simply put Pauline needed and wanted Juliet more than Juliet wanted or needed her and that fact was definitely not
00:22:45
lost on Juliet and neither was the power that such a position gave her over Pauline and this is a kid who never had
00:22:55
control or power over anything over anything she was just shuffled around shuffled around sent away moved from
00:23:01
home to home you know told told that her Defiance and her demanding quote unquote
00:23:08
nature was a negative were negative tra negative quality Y which is not good yeah it's like you got to try to spin
00:23:15
those qualities into something positive with a kid you can't tell them their bad
00:23:19
qualities because that's what they're going to live they're going to they're going to validate that on their own mhm
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and it's like this is her finally seeing a way where she can take control of a situation and have it and boy did she oh
00:23:31
boy and again I don't know the details I very brief overview hon boy did the both
00:23:35
of them they both they fed off of each other like I said it's a very Folly Ado kind of thing seems that way yeah before
00:23:41
long Juliet and Pauline were completely immersed in each other's worlds they spent almost all of their time together
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coming up with elaborate stories and Fantasies they rode horses they dressed up to perform plays where Juliet was
00:23:54
almost always the star and as it seemed fine like they it just seemed like they formed this Bond and they became best
00:24:00
friends who did everything together like I think we've all had a relationship or
00:24:05
most of us have where you meet this best friend and you start devoting all your time to them yeah absolutely but it got
00:24:11
to a point where it got to be too much yeah as the months went on they seemed to be completely wrapped up in each
00:24:18
other and as the nights became warmer Pauline would sneak out of her house at night and ride her bike to Juliet's
00:24:23
house where they would steal Wine and Food from the kitchen and sneak off to have Moonlight picnics or head to the
00:24:28
beach which still very like very relatable to a sense like oh like I'm going to sneak out and hang out with my
00:24:35
best friend yeah but everybody's been there everybody's been there but as one year passed into the next the girls seem
00:24:42
to shut out the world around them preferring instead to live in a fantasy of their own making just barely
00:24:48
attending their few real world responsibilities like school workor they were everything was falling by the
00:24:54
wayside there needs to be a balance yes it's okay to be you know you're creative
00:24:59
you're you know in you like fantasy you like you know that kind of stuff that's fine they're just they're always needs
00:25:06
to be a balance yeah it can't sweep you away one thing can't take over everything yeah and that's what happened
00:25:12
here and the older they got the more their fantasies came to include adult Concepts that they maybe weren't ready
00:25:20
to fully process process and yeah dive into yeah their dramas and stories were still those of an adolescent but as
00:25:27
Louise Chun wrote their characters regularly slaughtered and raped their way across the girl's imagination and
00:25:33
increasingly blood soaked Adventures I wasn't ready for what you just said yeah I don't think many people
00:25:41
would be you what like you what that escalated very quickly they started they because they would write these these
00:25:51
like stories back and forth and they damn got very dark in nature very quickly as you can see
00:25:59
yeah and a lot of them had very highly sexual themes but like like what I just said like featuring rape and that kind
00:26:07
of thing like it got it got dark yeah and if it was just coming up with stories that's one
00:26:15
thing but I think at the age that they were at it was concerning yeah and would be like if and the way they were pulled
00:26:22
away from reality in the way they were you know it was it sounds like it's becoming an us against the world's kind
00:26:29
of yes uh relationship and whenever it's a you and me baby against the world that's that's [ __ ] and it's going to
00:26:35
crash and burn in some way and it's not going to be good that always reminds me of Rob Zombie we going to crash and
00:26:43
burn it's that's literally what happens and that is what happens oh boy but Juliet and Pauline stories weren't the
00:26:50
only place that they explored romantic or sexual themes like a lot of girls their age they both loved Cinema and
00:26:57
they had a particular fond for popular male Stars at the time like Mario Lanza James ma James Mason and Orson Wells
00:27:04
after they were both arrested so we see where this is going well yeah and throughout what would become their trial
00:27:10
the press and particularly the tabloids made a lot of their uh sexuality eventually going as far to imply that
00:27:18
they were having a lesbian relationship which if they were whatever I was just going to say why would that
00:27:23
have anything to do with it no one really knows but but the time oh of course it was horrible Chen points out
00:27:30
their experimentation was probably no more than what many teenage girls get up to they sometimes slept in the same bed
00:27:36
they hugged each other when they were excited one night they practiced making love the way their Idols would so
00:27:42
definitely teetered over cuz like I was going to that last one I'm like I okay yeah okay I don't know any other teenage
00:27:50
girls experiences except the ones that I had with my friends and we did not practice making love I can tell you that
00:27:56
we also did not yeah like we hugged each other when we got excited slept in the same the same bed like very platonically
00:28:04
but we did not practice making love no I don't know if that's somebody else's experience though if they but you know
00:28:10
what that's you know it's none of my business yeah whatever but years later when asked for a comment on Juliet and
00:28:16
Pauline's supposed sexual relationship one classmate acknowledged the intimacy and told a reporter it was considered
00:28:22
normal for girls to have crushes on each other it was part of life at a single sex school that makes sense which it
00:28:28
does make sense you take the opposite sex out of the equation you're in the middle of puberty you're developing
00:28:34
these feelings like you're going to direct them at someone you know yeah and I always think like you know especially
00:28:39
like um like girls I feel like are so much more like can appreciate the beauty of another woman you know you know what
00:28:49
you mean I feel like that's just such a more fluid situation so you put them in a all girl school it's of course that's
00:28:55
going to happen it's bound to happen I agree but while they might not have been in a romantic or sexual relationship by
00:29:00
their third year in school Juliet and Pauline were certainly in mesed in one another's lives to the exclusion of
00:29:06
almost everything and everyone around them see that's that's where the problem comes it's the us against the world baby
00:29:13
and that's exactly what it is Pauline wrote in her diary which her diary becomes a big subject of this case we
00:29:19
have decided how sad it is for other people that they cannot appreciate our genius that's pretty hilarious Ela and I
00:29:26
have that conversation of I was just going to say that's pretty hilarious but and that kind of [ __ ] is just like that
00:29:33
if nothing else had happened that would just be like funny to look back on and be like look at at us just being like
00:29:40
[ __ ] everyone no context whatsoever you'd be like oh wow what a hot [ __ ] you'd be like that's hilarious like good
00:29:46
for you with your confidence but like yeah yeah and I feel like that goes back to what you were saying about like when
00:29:52
people are interviewed later on and they have that kind of bias of something happening it changes how you look at
00:29:58
things it's context all of it is context absolutely because now you read that and
00:30:02
you're like well [ __ ] that's not good that's that's leading to something bad but without the context like I don't
00:30:08
have all the details I know something bad happens though so I can at least go off of that and say like uh oh yeah
00:30:13
that's not good but if you don't know what the hell happens later and you're just thinking this is a tale of two
00:30:18
which you're not on morbid to do that but you're just thinking this is a tale of two women who like you know go
00:30:23
conquer the world together you're like well look at you you like you badass little confident [ __ ] just sitting
00:30:28
there being like nobody appreciates our genius how sad for them exactly interesting but then we we keep walk
00:30:36
keep on going keep on spiraling down the well we sure do so while they saw their
00:30:41
own relationship and increasingly romantic and grandiose terms the girl stories were becoming more like negative
00:30:48
and violent especially when it came to their imagined relations with others Peter Graham wrote as early as March of
00:30:55
1953 Pauline was writing about highway robbery and often more than one violent death a
00:31:01
day I mean that's a lot yeah that's a lot as somebody who writes about murder for a living that's a lot and that's the
00:31:09
thing like that's your literal job that's my job and that's my job too but we don't write about more than one in a
00:31:15
day no and it's true stories that we're writing which well I'm talking about I make them up oh like for my other job so
00:31:23
like I actually make it up for my other job like I have to do the the fantasizing in the creative writing
00:31:30
portion of it and even that's a lot well and also your brain is fully developed so it's not having the impact on you
00:31:36
necessarily that it would have on a teenage girl and it's having um healthy relationships and healthy bonds with
00:31:45
other people yes and healthy outlets and the ability to walk away from that for a
00:31:51
couple days if it becomes too much to separate that world that fantasy world from reality yes and that's where the
00:31:57
issue is coming in here it seems like that's all she could think about yeah and that's where it becomes unhealthy
00:32:02
and they were living in these fantasies like at points they would literally meditate into these worlds that they
00:32:09
created wow yeah that's interesting which is if the world that they were coming up with was less uh violent yeah
00:32:19
just lovely and something that could calm them or make them feel at peace somehow or yeah then that's lovely but
00:32:26
it wasn't really that yeah it seems like this was seems like there's just a lot of uh lot of Darkness around them a lot
00:32:32
of like there's not they're they're not having any positive relationships or any cu even
00:32:40
their relationship doesn't seem positive it seems very entrenched in a power Dynamic that isn't exactly balanced and
00:32:47
isn't isn't healthy at all and it's like if they had these like you know I don't
00:32:53
know it just seems like there's a lot of uh the the there's a lot of like knives
00:32:59
held in the air that I just feel are just going to all come crashing down yeah yeah so for the first couple years
00:33:04
of their relationship like we were just saying there was that power Dynamic Juliet always had the upper hand knowing
00:33:10
that Pauline was more dependent on her than she was on Pauline but over the course of 1953 as Juliet's life became
00:33:17
more and more tumultuous the imbalance of power started to even out a little bit in addition to a serious
00:33:23
hospitalization for what turned out to be tuberculosis wow she's really struggling with pulmonary stuff she is
00:33:29
yeah Juliet's relationship at the time also uh with her parents got even more strained so she turned to Pauline and
00:33:36
their Rich Fantasy Life as her only source of social or emotional support damn and when you're hospitalized like
00:33:43
they would write letters to each other while she was in the hospital but that was it all she had was her parents and
00:33:49
their relationship was not they didn't have a good relation comforting sad yeah so the more Juliet pushed her parents
00:33:56
away the closer she Drew Pauline unaware that while she had been in the hospital
00:34:01
Pauline had started dating a local boy named Nicholas oh of course with Juliet and Pauline being so close it was only a
00:34:08
matter of time before Juliet found out about Nicholas which she did in the fall of
00:34:13
1953 it's unclear what transpired exactly between them when Juliet found out of what she viewed as her
00:34:20
competition but in late October Pauline told Nicholas she was quote no longer very much in love with him and it was
00:34:28
quote better if they discontinued seeing one another as Graham put it it was as it
00:34:33
was as if she felt her affair with Nicholas had been an act of disloyalty to Juliet and by getting rid of him she
00:34:39
had returned their relationship to its rightful place as her primary concern and we've we've now ventured into
00:34:46
completely and utterly unhealthy yeah not okay we were teetering before now we're fully in that
00:34:54
real we entrenched in unhealthy [ __ ] right here yeah and PA's relationship with Nicholas was the first real test of
00:35:00
loyalty that the girl's relationship had faced and given how quickly and easily she dumped the boy that she had so
00:35:06
recently claimed to love it's clear that neither Juliet nor Pauline was willing to tolerate any threat to their
00:35:13
relationship damn and I say threat because that's how they viewed it like quote unquote threat quote unquote
00:35:18
exactly so while most people really paid little attention like at school to Paul
00:35:22
Pauline and Juliet's relationship the people who were familiar with them like a little more close to their Circle or
00:35:29
their twers Circle couldn't help but notice that they had an unusual and to some unhealthy attachment to one another
00:35:37
in late 1952 a lot of their classmates had started to notice the intensity of their bond but most considered it normal
00:35:44
because of the Dynamics of going to an all girl school classmate Jan southernland recalled you were allowed
00:35:50
to have a special friend as long as it was kept within bonds or I think bounds excuse me there's a lot happening
00:35:58
that I don't understand there's a lot there's a lot of Dynamics and like systems in place here that I have never
00:36:05
been a part of like all girls school and like in this in the ' 50s you know what
00:36:10
I mean like that I'm like wow it's interesting I didn't know about any of this I feel like it would make a really
00:36:15
good like obviously Heavenly Creatures as a movie it would be a great movie I feel like the concept of just like all
00:36:20
the Dynamics out an all girl school I'm I mean I'm sure it's been like a million
00:36:24
times but like you know what I mean yeah no it's an interesting probably kind of heartbreaking at times
00:36:31
I'm sure yeah cuz we don't know any of the the ins and outs of this the logistics yeah but while other girls
00:36:37
thought little of Juliet and Pauline's relationship the school's head mistress Miss Stewart had concerned that their
00:36:42
friendship might be headed in an unnatural direction oh I see what you're saying 50s head mistress over there she
00:36:49
was like I think they might be lesbians and we don't tolerate that here quote unquote exactly eventually she ended up
00:36:55
calling a meeting with Juliet's mother Hilda to discuss her belief that Juliet and Pauline's friendship quote might be
00:37:01
going Beyond normal healthy friendship which that say that yeah like I can I can understand that one like their bond
00:37:09
is unhealthy here and I don't know she might have meant unnatural direction as like this is simply not healthy yeah
00:37:17
regardless of what whether they are in a relationship that is romantic or platonic or somewhere in the middle
00:37:23
doesn't really matter no matter where it sits on the Spectrum here here it's unhealthy because of the way they are
00:37:31
like reacting to the world around them and the direction in which it's headed it's only going to get worse like so
00:37:35
let's nip this in the butt so she might have meant that there were a lot of people at the time who also were like
00:37:41
and I think they were lesbians and that wasn't okay so nobody who's to say you know but not one to overpar her children
00:37:49
Juliet's mother made it clear to Miss Stewart in no uncertain times that she was neither interested in nor prepared
00:37:55
to interfere with her daughter's friendships but particularly since she at that time saw nothing wrong with
00:38:00
Juliet and Pauline's relationship okay I bet she didn't hindsight yeah so Juliet's mom might not have seen
00:38:08
anything wrong with the unusually intense bond between the girls but Juliet's father was another matter
00:38:13
entirely remember he's a physicist he's a smart [ __ ] dude in December of 1953 Dr Hume consulted with his colleague Dr
00:38:21
Francis Bennett a psychiatrist whom he asked to evaluate Pauline wait yes Juliet's Dad yes asked to is it is
00:38:32
evaluate having his friend evaluate Pauline yes his daughter's friend yep okay y was there consent here like
00:38:42
what the [ __ ] it sounds like there was consent want call up her parents real quick I I think I think I think her
00:38:48
parents were like yeah but it's strange I know I had did when I was looking at that I was like wait did I have this
00:38:54
wrong no no it's really Pauline wow yeah okay when asked about this several years
00:38:59
later Hilda Hume said I had noticed Miss Parker was concerned about Mrs Parker was concerned about that friendship she
00:39:06
sought medical advice largely at my suggestion and my husband's okay so they talked about it and it seemed
00:39:13
like that Pauline's mom had more concerns than Juliet's parents so I don't know if they assumed that maybe
00:39:21
Pauline was the one who was too immersed in this that they were having okay they were like we're not
00:39:27
really seeing any any issue with Juliet but so maybe Pauline is the problem wow yeah and and her own mom was like yeah I
00:39:34
think this relationship is a little much like happened is these parents should have got together and me like what are
00:39:41
our concerns here yeah and then maybe we talk to both the girls yeah but I'm not
00:39:46
here I'm not in the 50s so that's how I would have done it I think but according
00:39:51
to Dr Benedict it was Dr Hume who was quote worried over what he regarded as an unhealthy Association and wanted me
00:39:57
to see Pauline from a psych a psychiatric point of view oh so it was Dr Hume yeah who was the one that was
00:40:04
like go go take a peek at paen you're not her father that's according to his friend but then according to Hilda she's
00:40:11
like well Mrs Parker also thought it was a problem so all of us came together and
00:40:16
Pa was the problem I mean I'm more inclined to believe the doctor here yeah his name is on this but who knows so
00:40:24
during Benedict's evaluation Pauline was overall pretty un cooperative and resistant to his questions but she did
00:40:30
say she was mostly unhappy oh and when he uh suggested she should widen her circle of friends she insisted she
00:40:37
didn't really care much for other girls and thought they were quote unquote silly it's like okay but sometimes
00:40:42
Silly's fun yeah you know you need a little fun in your life live in the silly everything doesn't need to be
00:40:46
serious yeah but she said besides she had Juliet she didn't need anybody else uhoh that's that's a ding ding
00:40:53
ding despite her providing very limited information and just giving like pretty sparse responses Benedict concluded that
00:41:00
Pauline was quote unquote strange I mean okay my diagnosis is you're [ __ ] strange same and and here it is he told
00:41:10
Nora Parker Pauline's mother that there was a quote homosexual attachment between her daughter and Juliet Hume oh
00:41:17
which of course at the time would have been s put everybody into such a [ __ ] tizzy and I like how it was like the
00:41:23
psychiatric evaluation that was like in my other diagnosis it's like homosexual it's like okay yeah I don't
00:41:32
understand but I don't think that's our biggest problem here I think it's the actual too intense Bond that's happening
00:41:40
right now ex the shutting out of reality that's the problem focus on that exactly
00:41:45
but the surprise evaluation did little to mend the increasingly fractured relationship between Pauline and her
00:41:50
mother because at this point even Pauline and her mom are having problems and I think that's I I just said I'm I'm
00:41:56
inclined to believe the w doctor but I it does sound like Nora Parker had her yeah her concerns I'm sure she did I
00:42:03
mean I don't know how any parent couldn't and especially because like I said Pauline seemed to be more affected
00:42:09
even at home at this point but despite Bert Parker's insistence that his daughter had been perfectly normal
00:42:15
before she'd met Juliet the fact was there had never been a really strong bond between Pauline and her mother huh
00:42:22
yeah that's the same with Juliet the relationships between mothers and daughters in this story very interesting
00:42:28
is very interesting like huh so I'm sure they bonded over that they did Big Time
00:42:34
most people recognized that Nora Parker meant well but like hild de Hume motherhood did not come naturally to her
00:42:40
interesting she was a very Stern woman who was quick to anger and Pauline almost constantly irritated her mother
00:42:46
without meaning to oh in fact Pauline's fractured relationship with her mother like we were just saying was among the
00:42:52
things that she and Juliet had bonded over when they first met according to her and this is really sad according to
00:42:59
Pauline her mother quote didn't understand her and didn't love her oh that's heartbreaking yeah that's awful
00:43:05
and a lot of times their arguments ended with physical punishment oh boy yeah so
00:43:11
Pauline's claims of abuse and pretty much neglect or a testament to how far she and her mother's relationship had
00:43:17
already even deteriorated by the time she even reached high school so that was already a problem there was already an
00:43:23
issue there and then her attachment to Juliet made things even worse you got to try to be good parents everybody it's an
00:43:31
important job of course it is by 1954 though Pauline's relationship with her mother wasn't the only familial bond
00:43:38
that was in danger of falling apart in late 1953 while working at the marriage guidance Council Juliet's mother Hilda
00:43:45
met a Canadian immigrant named Bill Perry Bill had sought services from the council because his marriage was falling
00:43:52
apart and while her initial intentions may have been to help him repair his marriage the relationship between Bill
00:43:58
and Hilda soon became flirtatious shut up and in no time at all their relationship had escalated from a fling
00:44:04
to something far more serious and in early 1954 Bill ended up leaving his wife and moving into an apartment
00:44:12
literally adjacent to the Humes Family House you you're okay okay um your child is going through something that's
00:44:27
concerning to everybody well nobody was as concerned with Julia the head mistress was concerned and like some of
00:44:34
the classmates were concerned PA's parents seem concerned Pauline's parents seemed concerned about her not
00:44:40
necessarily Juliet but like as a whole but there's an isue relationship is a problem like there's a problem here like
00:44:46
and even she's retreated into herself even Henry the father yeah the father seems to be a little concerned here
00:44:52
moderately at least and it's like what's going on like why are we adding more well to this H does not
00:44:59
really want to fuss over children that's true children should learn their [ __ ]
00:45:03
place as far as she's concerned babies should learn their place yeah that's babies should babies children all the
00:45:09
like like why would you add more into this chaos I it sounds to me like she was a woman who was very concerned with
00:45:21
her own needs yeah it does seem that way and not anyone else's cuz I mean she doesn't even give a [ __ ] about her
00:45:26
husband damn it just seems I'm like wow what a choice what a time to be alive yeah well
00:45:34
well this next part will just uh solidify the statement I just made of she really seemed only concerned with
00:45:39
her own [ __ ] oh my according to Hilda's own friend Nancy souland Hilda had cheated on her husband many times before
00:45:45
Bill and he was just quote one of Hilda's lovers oh okay yeah all right so with her husband consumed by his work
00:45:53
and rarely at home Hilda seemed to be less Vigilant than she should have been when it came to her affair with Bill and
00:45:59
in no time at all Juliet and Pauline had picked up on the relationship probably because he [ __ ] lived adjacent to
00:46:05
their house oh and that's going to [ __ ] you up yeah but rather than seeing it as
00:46:11
the inevitable end to her parents marriage Juliet instead saw it as a potential Financial opportunity stop it
00:46:18
by 19 by mid 1954 I'm just laughing because it's just like what the [ __ ] this is soar like this is uncomfortable
00:46:24
and bizarre cuz it's just like it just keeps getting getting more chaotic the layers Yeah by uh by mid 1954 the girls
00:46:32
fantasies had begun to center around running away together something that would require money and a good amount of
00:46:37
it so they hatched a scheme where they would catch Bill and Hilda in their Affair and blackmail them thus gaining
00:46:44
the funds needed to run away together that's such a Detachment from reality from reality and such a
00:46:52
Detachment from your mother as a as a mother you're just seeing her is like an opportunity to get to you need to go
00:46:59
she's [ __ ] up so let's there's so much like the bond between mother and daughter in both of these girls like
00:47:07
Pauline's bond with her mom and Juliet's bond with her mom are not yeah the typical bond between mother and daughter
00:47:15
yeah there's a lot of coldness here there's Detachment in on both sides big time between mother and and daughter and
00:47:23
between daughter and mother like it's from both sides like one has to the other and it's just well and I think a
00:47:29
lot of times and like obviously we're not going to get like too far into it but like we said punishment at this time
00:47:35
was physical that creates trust issues yeah absolutely that's just the fact of the matter yeah it just was biology it
00:47:43
just is and so I think that can lead to the Detachment of like I don't trust you
00:47:48
you're going to hurt me yeah cuz in the 50s [ __ ] was Wily like punishments were
00:47:54
not normal punishments like kids were literally getting hit with belts and stuff like and getting the [ __ ] kicked
00:47:59
out of them like it was like this was not bounds of anything right so yeah and physical to you know that's just the way
00:48:06
it is so I think though I think those Bonds were just damaged at a really early age and I mean punishment aside
00:48:13
Juliet was sent to live with other family members all the time she was separated from her parents in really
00:48:19
early developmental years so I don't really think Juliet ever formed a typical bond with her mom and then
00:48:27
Pauline I think is more the result of the the punishment style yeah and I think and they both say that they never
00:48:34
really took to Motherhood right like that wasn't something they were comfortable with and it just wasn't they
00:48:41
weren't really nurturing which is something a kid needs and it's sad ultimately because at the same time back
00:48:47
then you didn't really get the option to choose whether or not you wanted to be a
00:48:50
mother yeah so it kind of just like that's what you do and it was the kid who really suffers for it right mhm it's
00:48:57
it's just very sad overall it's very it's all very sad so Juliet and Pauline's plan to back uh blackmail
00:49:02
Juliet's mother and run away together was obviously somewhat childish in the whole like running away sense and
00:49:08
thinking that they would be able to and even though Juliet actually did catch the two of them in bed together she
00:49:14
never got a chance to blackmail her mom or Bill wow that's all [ __ ] up yeah in
00:49:20
May of 1954 after their blackmail scheme and Hilda hum's Affair had been exposed
00:49:25
Hilda and Henry called both girls to the kitchen one afternoon for a discussion because they were also always at each
00:49:30
other's houses of course particularly Pauline was always at Juliet's house it was then they learned that not only were
00:49:38
Juliet's parents going to separate but also that there had been some problems at the University and Henry had actually
00:49:44
resigned from his position so without employment and unlikely to stay married there was no
00:49:50
reason for the Humes to remain in New Zealand because remember they had only moved there because of a job opportunity
00:49:56
yeah and like nothing's really tethering them there so they tentatively decided to return to England in the coming
00:50:01
months oh wow Juliet's family the news was obviously upsetting for Juliet and Pauline but it's unclear whether they
00:50:08
truly understood what it meant for their friendship by that point they had been completely wrapped up in this grandiose
00:50:15
fantasy world where they believed among other things that they were uh telepathic and had an unbreakable Bond
00:50:22
and received an assurance from Juliet's father that they would not be separated in their minds he had made a promise to
00:50:28
them that he wouldn't separate them but that never actually happened yeah it was
00:50:34
delusions I was going to say it's just a lot of dulu happening yeah and none of it's going to come true Lulu no Pauline
00:50:41
wrote in her in her diary in early May Dr Hume really is to be relied upon so she like she had a legitimate trust she
00:50:49
really believed it what exactly he promised them is unknown but it seems pretty unlikely Dr Hume would have made
00:50:55
any kind of Promise under the circumstances especially when you think of the fact that he was the one that
00:51:00
wanted Pauline evaluated yeah that's the thing yeah I don't see that happening I
00:51:04
don't know if it was like a thing where the conversation kind of got like heated
00:51:08
and he was like we'll do our best to keep you guys together like like he said something that could in their very
00:51:13
delusional very Fantastical very desperate worlds yes look to them like any suggestion of a promise you know
00:51:21
like anything they could twist into one and it could have been that that he said
00:51:24
something like very small that they twisted or it could have been that in their minds they were so detached from
00:51:30
reality that they just believed he promised them something that he never promised like didn't even say anything
00:51:36
even close to a promise yeah I could see that so by early June Henry Hume had formally resigned from his position and
00:51:43
it was announced that he had accepted a new position in England so the family had a move coming in their future it
00:51:49
turned out that he actually hadn't accepted a new position but the second part was true he was to return to
00:51:55
England alongside his soon to be ex-wife however they decided under the circumstances it would be best if Juliet
00:52:02
went to live with Henry's sister in South Africa oh like okay okay given her precarious health and the fact that his
00:52:12
sister AA ran a girl's boarding school sending Juliet there seemed a better alternative than returning to London for
00:52:20
her they didn't think it was like a good place for her to be so the news was obviously a devastating blow to both
00:52:27
girls but they resolved to stay together and decided that Pauline would simply go
00:52:31
to South Africa with Juliet oh yeah obviously I'll just obviously my family will let me move away and go to your
00:52:36
aunt's place with you definitely definitely but in their mind the Humes had always welcomed Pauline into their
00:52:42
home they'd even taken her on vacations at this point so it seemed entirely reasonable that they would allow her to
00:52:47
accompany their daughter to her new temporary home yeah of course overnight stays and vacations were one thing but
00:52:55
this was um something entirely different and Pauline's mom was like you're not moving to South Africa with your friend
00:53:01
Pauline like yeah you're in high school no what are you doing what no the decision that Juliet would be leaving
00:53:08
without Pauline came as a shock but the girls remained committed to staying together and had already come up with a
00:53:14
backup plan that would allow them to stay together forever oh my Pauline wrote in her diary in late June our main
00:53:21
idea for the day was to murder mother this notion was not a new one but this time it is a plan which we intend to
00:53:27
carry out we have worked it out carefully and are both thrilled by the idea naturally we feel a trifle nervous
00:53:33
but the pleasure of anticipation is great I shall not write this plan down as I shall write it out when we carry it
00:53:42
out wow that escalated that went from zero to 100 and you I stopped in the middle of that
00:53:50
sentence because you feel like it escalated so quickly but there is years and years of just
00:53:57
wild attachment Styles going on between these two girls and some people trying to get in the mix there and try to you
00:54:05
know figure this out and rectify this but wow the damage had been done that's unbelievable it and that's the thing
00:54:17
like you feel like it goes to Zer to 100 but it hit every number along the way no
00:54:21
it's true it did it's just I think what's bothering me the most is the callousness with which this is oh the
00:54:28
callousness is being said and I think it comes from the I mean and this is just me like theorizing but I feel like it
00:54:35
comes from the fact that they were just so detached from the regular world that she was like yeah we'll kill my mom and
00:54:41
then we'll just go to that world it almost seemed like that was a real tangible place for them to go to yeah
00:54:49
like in her mind I I don't know if she thought like we can run away to that world that we made up I I think I could
00:54:55
absolutely see that their reality that they can run to that fake reality it's like you can't and I
00:55:01
just I was looking up the the diary things and they spelled murder M moer yeah I was like was was that on purpose
00:55:08
why'd you do that I think it's actually British is it it's like a British thing M oh really I didn't know that cuz I
00:55:14
Googled it really quickly and I was like does like does she mean something else she mean murder mean it's murder cuz I
00:55:19
when I see that I think like mua mua like how Spencer Henry Spencer Henry I know so the next day June 20th Pauline
00:55:26
spent the day with her family years later her father Bert recalled she seemed much brighter in the house than
00:55:32
she had before she was much nicer to us than she had been for a long time oh that's awful two days later Pauline and
00:55:39
Juliet would brutally murder Nora Pauline's mother holy [ __ ] yeah later after the
00:55:46
arrest and the trials many people would theorize that they had conspired to kill
00:55:50
Nora Parker in the misguided belief that if she were out of the picture Pauline would then be allowed to join Juliet and
00:55:56
South Africa uh it's pretty likely that this was the Catalyst for the murder but
00:56:00
at the same time Pauline had hated her mom for a long time and had fantasized for a long time about killing her EK
00:56:08
Peter gaham wrote Pauline would never forget the unhappiness of her childhood and seemed to blame most of that
00:56:14
unhappiness on her mother oh boy so on the morning of June 22nd 1954 Pauline woke up and wrote in her diary the day
00:56:21
of the happy event oh my God and referred to her mood as in the as a quote the night before
00:56:29
christmas-ish wow about murdering her own mom wow that afternoon Juliet left her house to meet Pauline grabbing a
00:56:37
broken brick off the ground from the side of the house and putting it in her bag as she walked at Pauline's house
00:56:43
they both sat down and enjoyed lunch with Nora she prepared them a nice little lunch and they all ate together
00:56:50
after lunch they went upstairs to Pauline's room where Juliet slipped the half brick into one of Pauline's old
00:56:55
stockings and then they tied a knot around the ankle to keep the brick in place and
00:57:00
then stuffed it into Pauline's bag after they eaten and readied their murder weapon Juliet Pauline and Nora all set
00:57:08
off for a walk through the woods Nora just wanted to go on a walk with them Pauline took the lead as they walked
00:57:14
with her mother in the middle and Juliet behind her after some time the vegetation started getting more dense
00:57:20
and muddy and difficult to manage they weren't going for a hike so Norah suggested like let's turn around let's
00:57:25
head back the girls tried to convince her to continue on but she was like no I don't want to go any further let's go
00:57:31
back to the house so this time it was Pauline who was in the rear as they turned around walking behind her mother
00:57:37
fumbling with the buckle on her bag at one point Nora stopped along the trail and bent down to look at something on
00:57:43
the ground and that was when Pauline came up fast behind her and swung the brick as hard as she could striking her
00:57:50
mom in the back of the head with it whoa so Nora got knocked to the ground and she covered her head in pain and
00:57:57
confusion and Pauline just swung the brick over and over again until Juliet appeared and took the makeshift weapon
00:58:04
from her and then took her own turns hitting Norah holy [ __ ] eventually the brick Broke Free from the stocking and
00:58:11
fell to the ground near Norah's almost lifeless body and sensing that the woman was almost dead Juliet kneel beside her
00:58:19
and grabbed her by the throat to hold her head in place while Pauline took up the brick again and started bashing her
00:58:26
mom in the head repeatedly until she ran out of energy oh my God like that is frenzied
00:58:33
as that I was going to say the frenzy holy [ __ ] although still not dead it was clear to both girls that Nora
00:58:41
wouldn't survive without immediate medical attention so they tried to drag her into the brush but they had
00:58:46
underestimated the the fact that she was going to be dead weight yeah obviously and they were only able to drag her a
00:58:53
few inches before she was too heavy with Nora rasping and choking on blood in the
00:58:58
bushes they ran off in the direction of town to carry out the next phase of their scheme the [ __ ] is the next phase
00:59:05
we'll get there okay but later when the autopsy was completed the pathologist counted 45 external injuries holy [ __ ]
00:59:14
including 24 lacerations to the head and face that had penetrated to the Bone and
00:59:20
extensive fractures of Norah's face nearly all of the blunt force injuries to her head were serious wow and the
00:59:28
pathologist wrote in his report it would not take many of them only a few to produce
00:59:33
unconsciousness wow so this was complete Overkill yeah when they reached Town Juliet and Pauline went into the nearest
00:59:41
business an ice cream parlor they had to were they like covered in blood I imagine you would
00:59:48
think like you would think they would be you would absolutely think and that's where the owners Agnes Richie and her
00:59:53
husband contacted the police in the mean metime Agnes's husband and another man ran out to the spot where the girl said
01:00:00
they left Nora hoping that they might be able to help when they reached the spot
01:00:04
where the woman lay in the brush Kenneth immediately felt that something wasn't right yeah cuz what the [ __ ] did they
01:00:08
tell them they said that Nora had slipped and fallen on the trail and hit her head on a rock 45 times 45 times
01:00:17
this woman appeared to have been viciously beaten uh yeah and they had left the broken brick beside her body
01:00:24
that was covered in her hair and blood holy [ __ ] it was brutal and I'm like you
01:00:31
guys really like you guys are creative writers that's you thought was going to work believe that she had fallen 45
01:00:38
times I mean come on the duu damn now it was dark by the time investigators made
01:00:44
their way down to the wooded area where Nora was still lying and they had to work by flashlight but even under those
01:00:50
circumstances it was very clear to everybody what had happened to Nora it was no accident no she hadn't just
01:00:56
fallen and hit her head on a rock she'd been brutally bludgeoned brutally presumably with that Bloody Brick by her
01:01:02
side so she also had multiple defensive wounds that suggested she fought hard and this is so gnarly one of them was a
01:01:09
broken finger on her left hand that was hanging on by a small piece of Flesh oh my God that's how hard she that is yeah
01:01:20
oh yeah one of the detectives told a journalist the deceased had been attacked with an animal ferocity seldom
01:01:27
seen and the most brutal of murders holy [ __ ] as several officers and Pathologists worked to process the scene
01:01:34
detectives were dispatched to the Hume house where the girls had been taken immediately following the report wow
01:01:40
just the brutality of that is like that's some anger that's and for for Juliet to to have taken part in that
01:01:48
like that's not even that's a lot of that's two very angry very [ __ ] up girls and it's like you not going to
01:01:56
separate us no at like you will not come in between this friendship which holy [ __ ] that's on
01:02:03
another level um as we know teenagers make notoriously bad criminals though yeah they sure do and this was no
01:02:09
different in their fantasy it's likely that Juliet and Pauline assumed they would just kill Nora deny any knowledge
01:02:15
of what happened and nobody would ask any follow-up questions whether it was Agnes Richie their parents are the
01:02:21
police asking questions both of them provided little information and just tried to stick to the explanation that
01:02:27
Nora had fallen wow but everybody was like no like there's no way we know you're not telling the truth yeah so
01:02:35
while Pauline and Juliet told a nearly identical story to interviewing detectives the story was thoroughly
01:02:40
unbelievable yeah and when they were confronted with the more unbelievable elements both girls started to seem
01:02:46
shaken and they gave weak answers for instance when detective Archie Tate asked Pauline why there was an old
01:02:52
stocking at the scene Pauline told him I usually carry an an old one in my bag wow that's all you got why wouldn't
01:03:00
you say that's not mine that's that's not mine I don't know I mean I'm glading I'm glad that you that you gave
01:03:08
a shitty answer and it worked out but it's like that's what you came up with I carry an old stocking in my bag just one
01:03:15
not even a pair just one it's one old stocking it's old what yeah detectives were looking for any part of either girl
01:03:22
story that they could grab onto that might pull their whole lie part and eventually they got it from Juliet ah
01:03:28
according to both girls' earliest accounts they had been walking together when Nora who was walking behind them
01:03:34
slipped and fell but in her statement to the detectives Juliet said she had been
01:03:38
walking far ahead of the two and when she turned around she saw Nora lying on the ground and she was bleeding when
01:03:45
confronted with that inconsistency Juliet claimed she thought Pauline and her mom had been arguing and she didn't
01:03:51
want her friend to get any in any trouble so she said they were together when Nora fell uhoh she's turning here
01:03:57
we go she's turning the change in the narrative obviously put suspicion for the murder squarely on Pauline who
01:04:03
detectives now believed was her mother's killer now when confronted with this new
01:04:07
version of events Pauline immediately knew that Juliet had changed her story and implicated her in the death but
01:04:14
rather than feeling outraged or betrayed she didn't nope Pauline was entirely willing to accept the blame believing
01:04:21
that she was protecting her friend because remember that shows you right now the power Dynam power D there Juliet
01:04:28
had it from the beginning and she kept that [ __ ] till the end I thought you were going to say that
01:04:33
she just broke no like that betrayal just destroyed her but for her just to turn around and be like yep I think in
01:04:39
her mind she didn't even see it as a betrayal she just saw it as well Juliet must have to this what we have to do and
01:04:45
and I'll take the fall for it yeah this is part of her plan so I'm just going to
01:04:47
go with it yep wow yep so upstairs in Pauline's bedroom detectives informed her that she was now being arrested for
01:04:55
for murder and advised her of her rights DN Pauline declined to answer most of the questions being asked by the
01:05:01
investigators but when they asked how many times she hit her mother she replied I don't know a great many times
01:05:06
I should imagine holy [ __ ] cold that's cold I don't know a lot wow no longer feeling
01:05:14
the need to lie she dropped the innocent grieving daughter act and stoically listened as detectives read the
01:05:20
interview record back to her essentially asking her to confirm that her confession was accurate she listened to
01:05:25
every detail she agreed and signed the document saying as much but before she did she wanted to make one thing clear
01:05:32
on the record she said I wish to state that Juliet did not know of my intentions and did not see me strike my
01:05:38
mother I took the chance to strike my mother when Juliet was away holy [ __ ] completely damn taking the wrap
01:05:49
completely wow yeah that's different level a different level cuz cuz I feel like we have covered
01:05:57
cases before where there's been two people that have committed a murder together like formed this really close
01:06:02
Bond over time always turn on each other but they all even married couples oh most of always married couples nine out
01:06:08
of 10 times and these two teenage girls one of them is like she had nothing to do with it and I'll never say she did
01:06:16
like look at Rose and uh and Fred West yeah or myose tried to be like I had nothing I don't know I wasn't even there
01:06:23
and Fred was like [ __ ] that she was there she was part of it not here they don't wow mm that's really unbelievable
01:06:32
that's incredible on another level in a bad way yeah it didn't take investigators long uh to realize that
01:06:38
while they initially thought the murder to be the act of Pauline alone Juliet not only knew about it but also
01:06:44
participated in the killing because Pauline had refused to give any kind of coherent response to investigators
01:06:50
questions the Press started proposing their own theories as to why the girls had Mur murdered Nora Parker
01:06:56
this is just silly Brisbane Telegraph reported the detectives have been told that Pauline had been pestering her
01:07:01
mother to buy her a pony paulen had become so obsessed with her desire to join the Pony Club police say she
01:07:07
threatened her mother that she would kill her if she were not given a pony that cannot be real it is Brisbane
01:07:14
Telegraph 1954 Brisbane Telegraph you're not all right you're not all right y'all
01:07:20
you're not all right y let's not let's not minimize this to opponent get right with yourself
01:07:26
that's that's not okay silly goose behavior that is such silly goose Behavior now it's unclear whether
01:07:33
investigators actually believed that Nora had been killed for refusing to buy her daughter a pony but whatever the
01:07:38
case they soon found Pauline's diary which brought the case into a completely different Focus despite being written
01:07:45
actually mostly in coded language that's been described as a quote Jolly school girl tone mixed with Hollywood crime
01:07:51
lingo that's terrifying isn't it the entries in the diary made the motive clear and over the course of several
01:07:58
years the girls had developed an intensely strong bond that when threatened by Juliet's potential move to
01:08:03
South Africa they were willing to defend with violence damn when the girls appeared in court for their arraignment
01:08:09
cuz they had a trial together oh wow yeah they appeared in uh court for their arraignment reporters were struck by
01:08:15
their bizarre behavior and just indifference to the charges one reporter wrote the girls looked embarrassed at
01:08:22
first they chattered and made finger signs to each other w they're literally like communicating with one another [ __ ]
01:08:28
when photographs of Norah's body were shown in the courtroom the girls allegedly smiled and grinned at one
01:08:33
another holy [ __ ] seemingly oblivious to the seriousness of this situation that
01:08:38
they had created wow however when Juliet testified in the pre-trial hearing she slipped back into that sympathetic
01:08:45
teenager act telling the court she'd only been trying to help a friend wow she said they were quarreling I saw
01:08:52
Pauline hit Mrs Parker with the brick in a stocking I took the stock talking and
01:08:55
hit her too I was terrified I thought one of them had to die I wanted to help Pauline wow while the girls seemed to be
01:09:03
trying to frame the murder as a situation that got out of control those diary entries told a completely
01:09:09
different story of a murderous plan malice a forethought baby so much malice a forethought set into Motion in order
01:09:17
to prevent being separated so they were jointly charged with murder on August 23rd 1954 Juliet and Pauline's trial
01:09:24
began at the Christ Church Supreme Court before Justice Adams and an all male jury huh which is interesting 50s I know
01:09:32
at which time both girls pleaded not guilty to the charge of murder in his opening statements the prosecutor aw
01:09:38
Brown told the jury that the crown would present evidence quote which will make it terribly clear that the two young
01:09:43
girls conspired to kill the mother and carried it into effect according to Brown they developed a quote intense
01:09:50
Devotion to each other and their main purpose in life was to share each other's secrets and plans so much that
01:09:55
anyone who came between them must be removed yeah I mean that's it it's literally black and white it's literally
01:10:00
written in the diary yeah it literally is in black and white I have it right here shall we continue I can just read
01:10:05
it from her own mouth legit as the prosecution presented the evidence to the jury and read long passages from
01:10:11
Pauline's diary the girls yawned and this is a quote yawned and exchanged smiles and they appeared to be
01:10:18
thoroughly enjoying themselves something's wrong yeah something is wrong yeah because even
01:10:27
even if they are callous enough to commit that act and cold enough and and Disturbed enough to commit that act
01:10:36
seeing how they're acting afterwards when they know that that was wrong and they know they're going to be punished
01:10:43
for it like they're not going to get out of this they have to know that to care for them to have no care of that there's
01:10:51
something else wrong there's a there's a a off exactly switch needs to be rewired
01:10:57
because like that's the fact that they're just like laughing through this I'm like oh you don't know like some you
01:11:03
are going to get in trouble for this yeah and I think I don't necessarily think that mattered to them because do
01:11:10
because also they had the the belief that they were uh telepathic and that they could Retreat to this world
01:11:16
together it's like but it's also like you know you're you're going to be separated if you get in trouble too mhm
01:11:23
I don't I don't think they're going to stick you in the same cell I wonder if they knew that I I feel like they have
01:11:29
to or if they thought that they would somehow end up in the same prison you know what you might be right absolutely
01:11:35
cuz they are young girls so it's like and they're in such a fantasy world that maybe they were like we're going to be
01:11:39
in the same cell it's going to be wonderful we'll live together forever jail we committed this this crime
01:11:44
together so Bonnie and Clyde like let's go yeah yeah it was either that or I think they thought that they could still
01:11:50
like they could still communicate and go into that world together then they would
01:11:55
have thought they could do that whether she was in South Africa or not but I I wonder if they thought like the distance
01:12:01
would make it harder being South Africa and New Zealand you know I don't know I think you were right the first time I
01:12:07
think that either they must have thought that they were going to be in the same prison yeah or they just didn't realize
01:12:13
it yeah damn it's weird but describing them both as precocious and dirty-minded girls Brown read passage after passage
01:12:22
that detailed their sexual fantasies and experimentation as well as the growing resentment and
01:12:27
eventually hatred that Pauline had for her mother the sexual implications of the relationship were emphasized by
01:12:33
Henry Hume who testified that he had become concerned about the intensity and the relationship and had tried to quote
01:12:39
break it up in the months leading to the murder but because the girls had confessed to the murder the defense
01:12:44
didn't need to argue their innocence only why they had committed the crime in his opening statement defense attorney
01:12:50
ta grion told the jury the sanity of the girls was an all important and vital question which like yeah yeah I mean
01:13:00
question that one fa fair enough ta gon according to him the evidence clearly showed that the girls were quote
01:13:05
mentally ill and their interest in sexual and homosexual matters would show that they were not ordinary but ill they
01:13:11
were suffering from a paranoia of exalted type and Folly Ado communicated Insanity I love that we're throwing in
01:13:20
like the gay in there as like [ __ ] up so remember that everybody like that's probably why and
01:13:28
it's like nope I think I nope I think you're on to something with the Folly ad do of it all I think the Folly ad do is
01:13:35
absolutely it and I think it was these two girls were Disturbed well before they met each other and they met each
01:13:41
other and the Folly Ado was ripe for the picking because they were Disturbed I don't think their their sexual identity
01:13:49
had anything to do with it well and you can also see like that you know the prosecutor saying like these are
01:13:55
dirtyminded little girls because they're looking at their diary where they talking about sexual fantasies and stuff
01:14:01
and it's like no no no no they're just they're just girls right they're allowed to have sexual fantasies and they're
01:14:08
allowed to put them in their diary that's where they should put them actually and you don't really have to
01:14:12
focus on not dirty the dirty mindedness of it all because again it's not dirty it's so even a nor even a quote unquote
01:14:21
regular sexual fantasy from a girl would beong dirty right and that means something's with it's like stop focusing
01:14:29
on the sexual aspect of this so much and look at the fact that they are now convicted murderers almost well I'm
01:14:35
assum going to like they're charged with murdering a human being because of the bond that they formed that is so beyond
01:14:44
anything that you can even comprehend conceive and this crime is not a sexually motivated crime there's nothing
01:14:52
sexual in nature at the scene whatsoever so there's just no need to focus on the
01:14:56
the things that they wrote in their di diary that were sexual in nature if they had killed Nicholas mhm the boyfriend
01:15:03
did you think that's where it was going I thought for a second if they had killed Nicholas then then take a peek at
01:15:09
What's Happening Here CU that could be a sexual motivated crime definitely it could definitely be something around
01:15:14
there like at least take a peek at what's happening but this has nothing to do with sexual anything and even the
01:15:22
manner in which Nora Parker was murdered was not none of it makes any sense and it's like so to focus so heavily on that
01:15:28
it seems very 50s to me verys girls shouldn't have any kind of sexual fantasies regardless of whether they are
01:15:35
gay straight whatever what have you I think they're literally like they are dirty because they they're you know they
01:15:42
think about they think about sex yeah even though they're teen girls exactly but you're not allowed to it's it's very
01:15:48
50 like you said it really is but the defense argued that while oh and by the way anybody that doesn't know what Folia
01:15:54
do mean we've been saying it like a ton it's the madness of two yeah I meant to say that earlier it's when two people
01:15:59
can form such a bond that their their Madness kind of intertwines yeah we covered um the papine sisters yes papine
01:16:08
sisters yes that that was um a case that we covered that and I think we like heavily focused on The Madness of two
01:16:14
folad aspect mhm you are correct so yeah just in case anybody was like what the [ __ ] are you going saying why are you
01:16:21
speaking French all the sudden now the defense argued that while the diary entry did confirm that the murder had
01:16:26
been enthusiastically planned they claimed it also demonstrated the girl's shared delusional State and evidence of
01:16:33
psychosis which I can see that I do agree with that yeah testifying in her daughter's defense Hilda Hume told the
01:16:39
jury quote so much I read in the 1954 diary was incorrect things were described in the diary in a very
01:16:45
distorted and untruthful way which and then you think about that promise that was made quote unquote made
01:16:53
or wasn't made wasn't like you you have to wonder how much of the Diary was just
01:16:58
their own delusion and I think probably 98% of it was I think there was a lot going on with these girls that was not
01:17:06
being paid attention to as heavily as it could have been mhm and I think a lot of
01:17:10
it had to do with where Society was at the time absolutely now in support of their argument the defense called
01:17:16
several psychiatrists to testify all of whom evaluated Pauline and Juliet following the murder according to Dr
01:17:22
Reginald medicott which like what a [ __ ] name Reginald medicott that's a name a doctor yeah he had to be a doctor
01:17:30
yeah he evaluated both girls just days after the murder and said both both girls are sensitive selfish imaginative
01:17:36
and show inability to tolerate criticism Pauline has ruled her Temper by birth September week so he's like she gets
01:17:43
angry and angry and angrier yeah the comment about Pauline ruling the friendship was critical to the defense's
01:17:49
argument that Juliet had essentially been manipulated into helping murder Nora which is so interesting to see that
01:17:56
flipped on its head the way it was absolutely but I think Juliet actually was much better at flicking that switch
01:18:04
on of like I was just I needed to help my friend and I didn't realize what I was doing yeah it seems that way whereas
01:18:10
Pauline I don't think that she can turn that switch on and off I think she just gets [ __ ] pissed when criti she's
01:18:17
ruled by her emotions and I think Juliet Juliet is like intensely intelligent I me her IQ alone you can tell in just the
01:18:26
way she acts and so it's like I think her her mind the way it works she's able to compartmentalize things in a
01:18:33
different way that you know normal people can't understand and that sometimes worked in her favor yeah
01:18:38
absolutely now also testifying for the defense was Dr Francis Bennett that same Doctor Who had evaluated Pauline the
01:18:45
previous year at Dr hume's request he told the jury Juliet and Pauline quote had a wild infatuation for each other
01:18:51
and spent as much time together as possible discussing their gods and books bathing and bedding together and
01:18:56
photographing each other which was all true they also had come up with like their own religion and followed the the
01:19:04
tenants of that I guess wow okay this was this was deep not only did they have a world they had like a social structure
01:19:12
with I just going to say they had a social structure you're right while medicott testimony focused mostly on
01:19:17
their shared psychosis Bennett's conclusion was of a more lurid nature he told the jury I agree with Dr medicott
01:19:24
that they were were suffering from paranoia if separated they have to revert back to their unhappy conflict
01:19:30
with others only in their homosexual aspect they think they are secure so again my God like what the [ __ ] I'm like
01:19:38
I don't think just doesn't have anything to do with it in my opinion it doesn't at all it really doesn't and it's it's
01:19:43
not the it's not them being like lesbians or homosexuals or what have you it's the bond that they have with one
01:19:50
another whatever that bond is it doesn't matter I even think it is like a a love
01:19:55
or like a no I think it's some I think it is I don't think it's it's a anything that we can it's I don't think it's
01:20:01
anything we can label I think it's a twisted bond that doesn't fall within any of the categories of a normal
01:20:10
relationship yeah goes beyond comprehension yeah I don't think this is like a love I don't think it's a
01:20:15
friendship I don't think it's either one of those things it's something entirely
01:20:19
different that doesn't end well it's that Folly ad do just what it you can label it as nothing really beyond that
01:20:28
have scope of and it's just it's strange to me that I mean it's not strange considering the time how much they
01:20:34
[ __ ] obsessed over that every like the the prosecution and the defense both it's so strange but again the time but
01:20:42
both doctors agreed that the girls were suffering a shared mental illness and both declared them quote unquote
01:20:47
certifiable I WR now the murder of Nora Park Nora Parker shocked all of New Zealand mostly because of the brutality
01:20:57
of the crime and the fact that the ACT had been committed by her own daughter and her friend yeah to wrap your head
01:21:03
around that is wild their behavior like we were just saying it defied all social
01:21:08
norms not just in the violence aspect of it but in the intimacy and the fantasy that led up to it people just couldn't
01:21:15
wrap their brains around it and I think people found themselves very interested in the story because of that aspect yeah
01:21:21
cuz like what happened here which like I feel that same way that's what drew me to the story
01:21:25
but in response the press and public sought to distance themselves from the crime by defining Juliet and Pauline as
01:21:30
singularly evil throughout the trial reporters repeatedly emphasized their strangeness citing everything from their
01:21:37
childhood illness to their foreign born status as an explanation for the horrible act and if that was how the
01:21:43
press and public had framed the case for themselves it's fair to assume that some
01:21:47
of the jurors had a similar opinion of the house I'm sure so on August 28th 1954 the jury retired for deliberation
01:21:54
and the next day returned to deliver a guilty verdict damn they rejected the defense's argument of mental illness
01:22:00
which is very interesting sh by that it's an all male jury yeah you're right I got to say it I and it's
01:22:13
1954 yeah that's the only thing that makes sense the understanding of mental illness is just not there I think they
01:22:18
were like throw them in jail yeah regarding their sentence Justice Adam said as you were both under the age of
01:22:23
18 the the sentence of the court is detention during Her Majesty's pleasure and handed down I know what a weird way
01:22:30
to work what what the [ __ ] is that how they say I'm sorry I'm like what during
01:22:35
Her Majesty's pleasure the [ __ ] does that mean let's Google it because Google that [ __ ] like what the [ __ ] I'm sorry
01:22:43
that just struck me I've never heard it said like that a phrase colloquially uh used to describe the period of detention
01:22:51
imposed upon a defendant found not guilty by reason of insanity but in this case that's not what
01:22:58
happened huh someone who was put in prison at his or her Majesty's pleasure is kept there until it is officially
01:23:05
decided that it is safe to release them and that's because they're under 18 yes so yeah during Her Majesty's pleasure
01:23:13
what a way to say it what the [ __ ] yeah I'm glad you also thought that was weird
01:23:17
cuz I was like I'll see if I can dance over it maybe I'm the only one that thinks it's weird but you cannot you
01:23:21
cannot I'm going to stop you in your tracks with that one well about to stop you in your tracks because this judge
01:23:27
handed down a sentence of 5 years in prison for the both of them five years five years they brutally beat a
01:23:40
woman with a brick with a brick yeah and then dragged her in the bushes and then
01:23:45
just said she fell and clearly were like Disturbed in many other ways and planned
01:23:51
this for a long time yep a according to the reports both girls smiled at one another when the verdict was read see
01:23:59
what the [ __ ] but Spectators in the courtroom were outraged after the verdict was read many among the crowd
01:24:05
loudly protested and nearly 125 people had to be removed from the courtroom cuz they were [ __ ] pissed that's scary so
01:24:15
both girls served their 5year sentence at separate adult prisons Juliet at Mount Eden prison and Pauline at Christ
01:24:22
Church prison and after their Le they just faded back into society they changed their names to protect their
01:24:28
privacy years later when asked about her time at Mount Eden as the only prisoner
01:24:33
under the age of 18 Jes Juliet said it was cold there were rats canvas sheets and Calico underwear I had to wash out
01:24:40
my sanitary towels by hand and they put me on physical labor until I passed out D it was Bleak yeah that's wow however
01:24:47
while it might have been a difficult experience she nonetheless calls it quote the best thing that could have
01:24:52
happened wao so I think see that coming it sounds like she may have been rehabilitated rehabilitated yeah it it
01:25:01
does sound that way I mean both of them kind of retreated into society and never
01:25:06
offended again so want you want that to happen so yeah during her time in prison
01:25:11
Juliet found religion and became a member of the Mormon faith which ultimately led her to express remorse
01:25:16
and openly take responsibility for the Murder She said that's how I survived my time While others cracked up I seem to
01:25:22
be the only one saying I'm guilty and I'm worri I I should be wow so she accepted it okay I mean still [ __ ]
01:25:28
terrifying damn in the Years following their release from prison Pauline and Juliet sought to establish new lives for
01:25:33
themselves under those new identities Juliet left New Zealand immediately for the UK where she established herself as
01:25:39
Anne Perry and went on to build a successful career as a novelist an Perry yeah Bill Perry was
01:25:49
the guy that her mother was having an affair with with what the that's there's a psychology there don't
01:25:57
you dare tell me that's not on I didn't even catch that good call good was the one that she was trying to
01:26:03
catch her D her mom with so that they could get the money to run away together good [ __ ] call I didn't even
01:26:13
think of that well she was a very successful novelist she wrote more than a 100 po popular Thrillers what the [ __ ]
01:26:21
isn't that insane I mean she'd been she had plenty of [ __ ] practice holy [ __ ]
01:26:26
they created that whole world that was a thriller that wow I mean their lives were a thriller yeah Pauline meanwhile
01:26:33
changed her name to Hillary Nathan and attempted to become a nun but that didn't work I don't know why uh and she
01:26:40
went on to study at Auckland University before becoming a librarian in Auckland and then moving to UK when she was no
01:26:46
longer on parole wow living in anonymity allowed both women to live normal lives
01:26:51
until the mid 1990s when a new moov movie titled Heavenly Creatures which by the way is a term pulled directly from
01:26:59
Pauline's diary I was wondering where that came from that's she calls her herself and Juliet Heavenly Creatures it
01:27:05
is a great name for a movie oh it is Heavenly Creatures I mean that's a great name I want to see it now yeah but um
01:27:12
they had a life of anonymity until that movie was announced directed by then little known Peter Jackson just little
01:27:18
little Peter Jackson you know unnamed man the announcement generated a lot of Buzz and reported started digging in
01:27:25
order to find out who these women were and what had inspired the film Ann Perry my God said in a 2003 interview it
01:27:32
seemed so unfair everything I had worked to achieve as a decent member of society
01:27:36
was threatened and once again my life was being interpreted by someone else it happened in court when I was a minor I
01:27:42
wasn't allowed to speak and I heard all these lies being told and now there was a film but nobody bothered to talk to me
01:27:47
I knew nothing about it until the day before release all I could think of was that my life would fall apart and that
01:27:52
it might kill my mother whoa which luckily it didn't the two women like we just said were eventually outed by the
01:27:59
Press but by then so much time had passed that Beyond General curiosity few people were interested in villainizing
01:28:06
or demonizing either of them yeah I mean they if they seem to have made productive members of society out of
01:28:14
themselves I guess there's really no point yeah leave it alone you know you know and Perry otherwise known as Juliet
01:28:20
Hume died from a heart attack on April 10th 2023 oh wow at her home in Los Angeles and as of today uh Hillary
01:28:27
Nathan who was uh previously Pauline Parker is believed to be alive and somewhere in the UK
01:28:33
wow what a wild story though that wow and the fact that they both seem to have been rehabilitated after 5 years in
01:28:44
prison as miners that's the thing like that's really wild and it's and that makes you question what would have
01:28:51
happened had somebody stepped in sooner I know that's like where been able to step in sooner obviously tried to and
01:28:58
people were more like taking note of these things and trying to think of ways to you
01:29:05
know that yeah it is it's one of those things cuz it's not like they want around killing people no or losing their
01:29:12
[ __ ] on people or assaulting people later you know like the the penchant for violence outward violence was didn't
01:29:21
seem to be something that was innate no until their relationship was threatened and I think I think that was the biggest
01:29:29
part of it because at that point that Dynamic and their relationship was at its highest point you know yeah and you
01:29:36
know what it if they had been separated yeah at one point like if if they had been separated I think it would
01:29:43
have gone a different way because look at when they were they had a forced separation in prison yeah and they
01:29:48
thrived exactly so it's like I think they were keeping each other in this [ __ ] whole place yeah where neither of
01:29:55
them could grow because they were just this festering wound together and if you break them apart they're able to thrive
01:30:02
on their own it's really too bad that there wasn't some way to do the move like I I feel like it sounds traumatic
01:30:10
to to figure out the move without telling one of them yeah but maybe that would have resulted in yeah you wish it
01:30:16
had happened earlier yeah just that relationship having to Die the way that she having to die one and having to Die
01:30:22
the way that she did wow what a story it is yeah that's wow something to sit on yeah that really is
01:30:32
there's a lot to take in there interesting case for sure yeah so with that being said we hope you keep
01:30:37
listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you form an unbreakable bond with somebody and then
01:30:44
murder somebody over it because you guys should really just go uh get coffee by yourselves away from each other yeah
01:30:49
enjoy yourself yeah Solitude find peace in oneself home [Music] [Music]