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The Exorcism of Roland Doe | Morbid | Podcast

April 10, 2025 / 01:08:48

This episode covers the exorcism of Ronald Hunkler, also known as Roland Doe, including discussions on his childhood, the events leading to the exorcism, and the aftermath. Ash and Elena share their thoughts on Cadbury cream eggs, the significance of Ronald's aunt Tilly, and the various paranormal occurrences surrounding his life.

Ash and Elena start the episode with a light-hearted discussion about Cadbury cream eggs, revealing how their families react to them. They then transition to the serious topic of Ronald Hunkler's exorcism, which has been a subject of fascination since the 1940s.

They discuss Ronald's troubled childhood, marked by a strict upbringing and a close relationship with his aunt Tilly, who introduced him to spiritualism. The episode details the events leading up to the exorcism, including Ronald's behavioral issues and the paranormal phenomena reported by his family.

As the exorcism unfolds, Ash and Elena recount the various rituals performed by priests, including the dramatic moments when Ronald exhibited signs of possession. They highlight the conflicting accounts from witnesses and the eventual conclusion of the exorcism.

The episode concludes with reflections on Ronald's life after the exorcism, including his successful career as a scientist for NASA, and the lasting impact of his story on American culture and the horror genre.

TLDR

Ash and Elena discuss the exorcism of Ronald Hunkler, his troubled childhood, and the aftermath of his possession story.

Episode

1:08:48
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hey weirdos my name is Ash I'm Elena and this is more [Music] bad you sounded like you were hosting a
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show like Delila oh my God thank you hey hey out there everybody out there you single
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ladies this is Ash this one goes out to all my Queens I don't know oh my Queens then I just started
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sounding like Trixie and Kio when they're like doing a bit I like it may I please have bread
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bread um what's going on I'm in a silly goofy funny LOL mood me too yeah I'm feeling it good feeling it we got some
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Mini cadberry cream eggs in this I just ate two of them I ate no I ate two oh you're just trying to one up me with
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cadberry egg I took a third one out but I have not yet ingested it yeah maybe you should chill out um they're tiny
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they're baby no you can do what you want um this is kind of a Hot Topic cream cadberry eggs how do you guys feel about
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them my husband thinks they're the most disgusting things my husband also thinks
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that anytime I have them in the house he gags and oh that's EX one of us will eat one he will visibly
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gag Drew just says a little like like with his nose see my girls love them yeah my girls are correct it shouldn't
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be that hot of a topic No it should not but it is want to know what you guys think if you don't like them you're just
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wrong whoa she said it I didn't I said it me I'm here to I'm here to tell you that your opinion matters but Ash she's
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telling you're going to validate them in these streets no that's wrong validating
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it's wrong if you don't like them what are the there's another option is it car yeah the caramel so I like caramel but I
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don't like those ones I'm okay with them but it's not my yeah it's not my preference yeah I don't really [ __ ]
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with them you I either man but I was going to tell you guys something I thought of it this morning I
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was like getting my coffee ready and I was like I'll say that on the show later I'll say that on the show I'll I'll say
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that on the Pod what was it and then we had such a whirlwind of a morning and now I just have boats and hose stuck in
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my head so it's true cuz we got a couple of strep strep throat cases in my house um CU kids get
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sick calm down um I always get one person that's like why are your kids sick kids are always
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sick like yep kids are sick said no parent and also it's not just kid it is also John who has strep throat kid John
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so that child and John are the are kind of sticking together and so they started
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calling themselves strep Brothers but then it made boats and hoes get stuck in my head it did so that's a
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whole thing yeah but yeah it's good that we're in a silly mood today because we're talking about something like
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moderately silly yeah I mean anytime we can take it in a place of exorcism or paranormal it's um it's a different vibe
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yeah I would say it is a different vibe we can come in in a different angle yeah
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a silly goofy angle silly goofy It's Kind it's kind of a wonky angle yeah yes the best way it's like curved yeah I
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like that all right well let's talk about the exorcism hello wow I don't know what
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happened I need an exorcism hello all right we're going to talk about The Exorcism of one Roland doe so as long as
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the public has known about The Exorcist supposedly true Origins the character at
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the center of the story has always been known as Roland doe or sometimes Robbie manaheim I think Manheim Manheim Manheim
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both are obviously pseudonyms to protect his actual identity but in December 2021
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the skeptical Inquirer a magazine devoted to scientific skepticism revealed the identity of Roland
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doe can you believe that it's crazy yeah well they reason that he had passed away
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a year earlier so there was like not really any need for anonymity anymore I suppose I guess the identity of Roland
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Joe has been uncovered by an independent journalist two decades earlier it had been but the reporter actually opted not
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to publish the name for legal reasons probably smat so people knew who he was for a little bit but it was it was kept
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on the deal wow that's shocking I know it's well it was a different time I was going to say that would never happen now
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well exactly because in the year of our L 2021 it got it got leaked it got leaked
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yeah so in 1999 though taking it back a little bit a journalist named Mark o opik I believe was writing an article on
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The Possession for strange magazine which I prefer when he interviewed father Albert Hughes one of the priests
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involved in the case damn that must have been gnarly oh my God can you imagine that'd be crazy let's sit with that for
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a second yeah every like let let's paint a picture you get to sit down with the with Father Albert Hughes who was
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involved in the original case that inspired the exorcism that's a [ __ ] Exorcist I mean what did you say I said
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the exorcism who inspired the exorcism the exorcism that was in the exorcism not a exorcism the exorcism like that's
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a big moment yeah just a weird moment I would assume top 10 in your life for sure well according to Hughes the boy
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who was exercised was from Cottage City Maryland and he quote went on to graduate from G Gonzaga high and turned
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out fine any time I say Gonzaga High I just want to say gorgona and you do that for a reason and you don't even know
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what the reason is tell me what it is uh John loves March Madness and he usually
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has me do a fake bracket with him and I don't know anything about college basketball I like regular like higher
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basketball whatever NBA but like what is that called Big Boy basketball Big Boy basketball but I don't know anything
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about college basketball so I just pick based on what I think is a cool name and
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Gonzaga reminded me of gorg and so now I I only call Gonzaga gorgona W you probably you might have heard it in
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subconsciously it's possible and we're also just family it's true that proved it cuz he'll and he'll even do it now
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he's like oh Gorgonzola mov on to the next um round wow yeah look at us so connected Gonzaga G gorola say gor well
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with those facts and a few obtained a few other facts obtained from his research OBS hasnic was able to
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determine the years that the boy was in high school and after tracking down a copy of the 1954 Gorgonzola Gonzaga High
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School yearbook he narrowed the pool of potential boys to a very small number and after cross-checking list with the
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known attendees of St James Church where Albert Hughes was priest he was left with just one name Ronald hunkler Ronald
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hunkler Ronald hunkler that's a cool name it is I like it hunkler hunkler yeah the story of the Roland Joe and The
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Exorcist have been told and retold like a million gajillion times since the supposed possession occurred that it's
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become very very difficult if not almost impossible to tell all the facts from fictions those are my favorite kind of
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paranormal stories they're the best I don't I don't want clear facts and fic frankly it's most paranormal stories but
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then the popularity of the movie that came out made the already Sensational story even more sens Sensational with
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obviously aspects played up to promote the supernatural details of the story so facts about Ronald and his life before
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and after the exorcism are sparse and a little difficult to verify but here's what we do know Ronald Edwin hunkler was
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born June 1st 1935 hey we that that is my wedding anniversary and the day that one Marilyn Monroe passed away it's true
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I didn't mean to do that um yes it was in Cottage City Maryland that he was born to Edwin and Odell hunkler isn't
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Odell a cool name it is a cool name I also love the name Edwin I do too I think that's a really cute name that was
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Ronald's middle name and his father's name love it so his father Edwin worked for the federal government and Odell his
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mother was a homemaker Edwin was very fortunate in that he had a stable job during the peak of their Great
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Depression but the pay was relatively low and the family definitely struggled financially a lot of the time and this
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struggle became even greater a few years after Ronald's birth when Odell's mother
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moved into their house which obviously put in you know kind of an additional strain yeah more mths to feed more
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resources being used for sure sitting about one mile outside the Northeast border of Washington DC cottage city was
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and still is a pretty suburban area populated mostly by government employees like Edwin hunkler was according to
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Alvin Ki one of Ronald's childhood friends Ronald quote had friends but he was in a sense a little bit of a loner
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he was somewhat sedentary somewhat quiet as his parents were in his younger years
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Ronald did have a best friend for the purposes of this story we're going to call him John love that name we don't
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really you do I do that's crazy we don't really know like if his name was John or
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not so we're just going to call him that John John according to John's brother JC
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these two paired up and were virtually Inseparable they were loners who found each other and they caused a lot of
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Mischief there was a close relationship there a very close relationship good for
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them yeah loners causing Mischief let's go what's better kind of like what we do
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but we're not really loners no sort of I don't know according to JC when the stories about a possessed boy began
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making their way around town he immediately thought of Roland and John uh Ronald and John that's that sucks
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that they used essentially the same name no it does and let me tell you it [ __ ]
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me up the entire time I was reading about this and writing about it so Ronald if I say the wrong name I'm going
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to do my best to say Ronald the entire time cuz that is his name but if I [ __ ]
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up just like laugh with me okay yeah because no matter what that's the whatever name is used is a name that he
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was referred to as yeah Ronald or Roland yeah I'm doing my best to say Ronald so
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like imagine trying to save someone's identity and use essentially the same name you literally just switch three
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letters like that's fake come on and if you have dyslexia the [ __ ] yeah it's true that's not cool no but JC said you
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had these two Mischief Makers that had a strong tendency to take advantage of people who were weaker than themselves
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that's not good were a pair of connivers and they had their act down they were trying to outdo each other so he's like
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possessed boy got something to do with the two of them yeah now if JC remembered Ronald as a mischievous
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Troublemaker John who was actually his friend himself described Ronald in a lot more of extreme terms oh according to
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John Ronald's home life was anything but typical for a boy in the 1940s he said Ronald was quote smothered by his
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obsessively religious mother and grandmother who had deep interest in spiritualis and Ouija boards shunned by
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his classmates at school prone to traumas and even violent outbursts and exhibited cruel and at times even
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sadistic Behavior toward other children and even animals oh yeah so there's a lot going on with his
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pathology and when it came to his father's influence on Ronald both JC and John remembered Edwin hunkler as a man
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who was physically present in the home but emotionally absent anywhere else at the time which was kind of common to say
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of the time that's not shocking yeah but I think when you have all those other things at play it's going to add to it
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it was never good no nobody came out of that in a great way unscathed yeah JC said of the supposed Paranormal Activity
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I think he could see what was going on which is why he's never mentioned talking about Edwin interesting yeah now
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since the story broke in the papers and especially since the release of the book
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and then the movie John really tried to distance himself from Ronald and avoid any association with the legend which I
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can understand yeah in an interview in 1999 he said I've never said his name in front of anyone not even my wife whoa
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yeah damn in fact while nearly everyone remembered Jon and Ronald as Inseparable
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best friends even his own brother Jon himself wouldn't have actually described it in such intimate terms he said we
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were Playmates and classmates people ask what he was like back then and I can tell you that he was never what you
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would call a normal child he was an only child and kind of spoiled and he was a mean
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bastard he was a mean bastard I think it sounds like John just kind of put up with him for a while and then even he
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was like [ __ ] off I feel like everyone has at least had like some interaction with a person like that as they were
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growing up where you were just like you're kind of a dumb [ __ ] like why am I hanging out with you it's like a
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friend you just like do yeah yeah I feel like that's just one of those it's like
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then you move to like a new school like you move up a grade you kind of like Branch out a little more and you're like
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why the [ __ ] was I friends with that you kind of FL apart yeah for sure so I don't feel bad if you were friends with
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an [ __ ] think of exactly who I used to hang out with that was kind of yeah that I look back and I'm like why did I
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put myself through that yeah she was an [ __ ] well as an illustration of Ronald's Ronald's typical Behavior John
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remembered a story about a stray dog in the neighborhood that it's okay okay that seemed to take a liking to Ronald
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and vice versa that they actually liked each other but apparently he said this dog was mean and nobody ever knew who
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owned it it just came out of nowhere no dog is mean he was a little mean he's not mean he does mean to he was treated
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badly I bet yeah probably no dog comes out mean you're right and they all go to heaven yeah well and this is John's
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words he said well Ronald basically adopted that dog that dog really was his best friend not me one time he called me
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up and told me to come over and I never really trusted him because he was sneaky
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and a real mean little bastard I was going over there and he was looking out from the basement window and when I got
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to his house I heard the back porch door slam and I knew right away what he'd done he'd done this sort of thing many
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times before to different kids I started running like hell because he'd sick that
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dog on me when I got when I got home he called me up and he was laughing like hell that's the kind of person he
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was I mean that's pretty funny it's a little silly but also that's [ __ ] up it is a dog could have ate his face off
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that's like super 1940s Behavior though I feel I think I've seen that in like several movies I think I've seen that I
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feel like that's very like I'm just born yeah I'm going to stick my bean dog on 100% but it's supposed to be his best
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friend that's the [ __ ] you do your best friend though yeah you know John John didn't like it I don't know I feel like
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we're in the Northeast maybe we just I know that's actually this kind of I'm like that's just roasting somebody you
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love yeah you know yeah no that's honestly so true I remember one time I had play date with somebody who I
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thought was like my best friend and it was like the middle of winter and we were playing outside and they just
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locked me outside yeah that's just you know that's just somebody you love we were still besties after of course you
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were cuz that's love that's what that is New England is wild we're different we are but John John didn't like that so
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people who knew Ronald as a child paint a picture of a pretty lonely boy overall
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it sounds like also you know with pretty bad social skills since he's sick and his dog on people yeah that is pretty
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rough and you know obviously this is a great example of it a tendency to behave in Cruel if not outright sadistic ways
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which is scary cuz while we can laugh a little bit that is a [ __ ] up thing to do it is a [ __ ] up thing to do
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especially knowing that the dog is mean well that's the thing I don't all I'm hearing is that the dog was mean it's
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like I don't know what that means yeah well it's it's not only mean to like the friend it's mean to the dog you should
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put the dog in that position that's the thing cuz I mean again things were different in the 1940s now you do that
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that dog so muches touches that person you're going to have to put that dog down and that's your fault exactly and
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that's [ __ ] up because that dog's just doing what they think is going to make you happy exactly and that's all dogs
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want to do exactly but the cruel and sadistic stuff is like a different because again we're talking about like
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roast your friends roast the people you yeah like these do silly things yeah cruel and sadistic is like a totally
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different yeah don't do that and again people said that he was like mean to other animals and as soon as you said
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that I got a red flag that's more like what we're talking about unfortunately like I said like there's limited
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information so we don't have specific examples like what those cruel and statistic things are but we know that
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they happened or people said they did at least but there was at least one person
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in Ronald's life who he really truly bonded with and somebody who he was willing to let his guard down around and
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it was his father's sister Matilda who was his aunt Tilly as he called that's really cute I know they had a really
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cute relationship I think in the stories the documentaries and the movies that have been made since the original event
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there's always a great deal made about Aunt Tilly and especially her role as the person who introduced Ronald to the
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occult but oh damn a Tilly she might have but again there's a lot more fiction surrounding aspects of the story
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than facts so we don't know but what is true is that Aunt Tilly lived in St Louis and she visited her brother and
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his family a lot and during her visit she always made time for Ronald's they really like to hang out together that's
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some good Aunt [ __ ] it is author Thomas Allen wrote Aunt Tilly seems to have treated Ronald more like a special
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friend than as a nephew oh that reads a little creepy I just want to be clear she like it it's not creepy it's not
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creepy it was just a cute relationship it's like she she paid she she might have seen too that he was a little off
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off and like he was a little like socially strange and like a little bit of loner and so she was like I'm going
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to just you know I'm going to make sure that I pay attention to him and I think she even saw that her brother probably
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wasn't super present in her nephew's life and like he was struggling at school the adults around him didn't pay
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a lot of attention to him other than his mom like smothering him yeah which is not the attention that you want no so
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she was like let me just like be a normal person in your life but I feel like you hear special friend and that
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atically reads creepy like we're we're in a place now in the world where special friend with an adult is no no
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go so he just wanted to be you know thank you for clearing up on Tilly's name yeah I had to that's my girl yeah
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so given his inability to form bonds with children his own age and the fact that he you know treated his peers
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pretty shittily most of Ronald effect most of Ronald's time was spent with the adults in his life and like I was just
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saying most of them typically just ignored him or treated him like a nuisance so in that case it makes sense
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why he was drawn so much to somebody like his aunt Tilly yeah she was said to be outgoing outspoken and pretty
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eccentric in an era where most people were conservative and respectable and you know buttoned up so she probably
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sees a little bit of something in them you know what I mean like she's a little different so she's like I think you just
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need to be like steered in the right direction yeah we got to celebrate our differences yeah so like Ronald's mother
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and grandmother Tilly was also interested in spiritualism and she introduced Ronald to the Ouija board
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which they used together to try to contact the spirit world I'm kind of obsessed with all of this I'm also
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pretty obsessed with like I do also love that the mom and grandmother are super into spiritualist in the board I'm like
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wow it's funny too cuz the mom was like super religious but she also had an interest in that side of things yeah
00:19:06
that's very interesting yeah nobody really knows how much Ronald believed in his aunt's ability to talk to the dead
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through the Ouija board or if he really bought into any of the beliefs but according to Thomas Allen his interest
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in the board was at least strong enough for him to engage with it even when Tilly wasn't visiting so he was he was
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using that Ouija board so he was into it and it wasn't just the spirit board that
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Tilly believed in she was also Al a firm believer in spirit wrapping which is the
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belief that Spirits can communicate with the living by like knocking on walls floors any heart this some people think
00:19:37
it's debunked I don't I feel like it's a hard one to debunk like fully yeah I agree you know and like we've he we've
00:19:45
heard weird topping in this room before and we've never found the source like you can debunk certain instances of it
00:19:52
for sure but not overall a blanket debunk doesn't feel right here thank you you're welcome so considering everything
00:19:59
that was going on it would definitely be fair to say that Ronald was struggling emotionally before his possession and
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that he didn't have a lot of relationships where he felt supported yeah and throughout a lot of the 20th
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century expectations of gender were rigid when it came to boys and young men and especially boys and young men asking
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for help when it comes to like emotional problems that would have been super unusual and that's why they just acted
00:20:22
out exactly that's exactly my point here so let's kind of get into it now as far
00:20:29
as anybody can tell Ronald hunkler's paranormal experience began in early January
00:20:33
1949 about 5 months into his e8th grade year his behavior was starting to become
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a problem at school and his bullying Behavior wasn't giving him any friends and things finally came to aead that
00:20:45
winter when one day just in the middle of class A supposedly paranormal experience made him the center of
00:20:51
everybody's attention oo his friend John remembered he was sitting in a chair and
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it was one of those deals with one arm attached and and it looked like he was shaking the desk the desk was shaking
00:21:02
and vibrating extremely fast and I remember the teacher yelling at him to stop it and I remember he kind of yelled
00:21:08
I'm not doing it and they took him out of class and that was the last I ever saw of him at school holy [ __ ] yeah now
00:21:15
what yeah in later tellings of the story particularly the version told in Thomas
00:21:20
Allen's book possession the event in the classroom was a genuine Poltergeist phenomenon where the desk was moving
00:21:26
free of human hands like he wasn't n't doing it at all but John who was in that class said nah the desk certainly did
00:21:34
not move around the room like that book said it was just shaking all right I mean either way yeah two two versions of
00:21:40
that story regardless of what was causing the commotion the disruption with the desk was the last straw for the
00:21:46
teachers and the administrators at the high school and Ronald was asked to not return so I there was definitely there
00:21:55
was definitely stuff leading up to this yeah there had to be a lot of [ __ ] leading up I think probably the bullying
00:22:00
yeah was like a bigger thingal and then like he definitely sounds like he was disruptive a lot yeah if you're being a
00:22:05
bully to everyone and treating everyone like [ __ ] sorry I just almost yawned while I was saying that not because this
00:22:11
is boring just because sleep it's tired uh but I said it's tired it's tired see it's tired over there it this this is
00:22:20
tired but yeah the like if you're bullying people you're being disruptive you're being like sadistic to people
00:22:27
like the fact that they use the word sadistic quite often means he's doing some [ __ ] and also it was a lot easier
00:22:32
to throw people out of school it's true and it's like if they're telling him to stop and he's like I'm not doing it and
00:22:37
he just keeps doing what get my it's like of course but what sucks is that if it like was legitimate then he just got
00:22:44
kicked out because of a ghost yeah like that's kind of [ __ ] you know yeah thanks a lot spur thanks a lot spir well
00:22:50
interestingly when the incident was reported to the priest months later it was reported that Ronald quote did not
00:22:56
continue his attendance out of embarrassment so there's two stories there now the next major event came a
00:23:01
few days later on January 15th Ronald and his grandmother were at home in his grandmother's room and they started
00:23:07
hearing a dripping noise followed by scratching sounds coming from within the walls in the ceiling I'd be like [ __ ] we
00:23:14
have M until without warning a framed picture of Jesus Christ began shaking quote as I
00:23:22
had to say it a framed picture of Jesus Jus Christ that's a big deal Jesus Christ himself
00:23:32
Jesus Christ Jesus jwa chist it started shaking quote as if the wall back of it had been
00:23:43
bumped so I'm just picturing I can't help it maybe that's a black of sleep I haven't had a lot of sleep I'm picturing
00:23:50
a diamond in the wall saying and I'm picturing him just booty bump in the wall and like he knows Jesus Christ in
00:23:58
the photo boom yeah Jesus Christ is in that photo like he knows yeah like he's just like dancing to his own beep behind
00:24:06
the wall and he's just booty bumping the wall every now and then I like the image
00:24:09
that conjures a big booty demon big booty demon little way he shake it a Bodacious demon in the wall it's going
00:24:18
to be like bump Mario's nickname for Brion or for Brien on Tik Tok yes it's so true well that happened
00:24:29
big booty demon or mice knocking pictures of big booty mice of Jesus Christ Off the
00:24:36
Wall I don't know why would you say it it's like so intense because I did it on purpose because it's so important it is
00:24:45
in the week or so following the scratching and the dripping sounds the inexplicable noise noises became a
00:24:50
nightly event in the hunkler house usually from like 700 p.m. to midnight yeah that's when he's getting his RAV on
00:24:56
that demon that first you pregame then you rage then he's really into it yeah he's he he starts like a little bit
00:25:03
slowly he takes a couple shots at the pregame but once he gets that feeling it's it's over it's over the night going
00:25:10
song comes on and that's it he says let's go girl he says let's go hunkler fam now it's unclear what type of
00:25:17
activity was experienced during these events for the humans but most accounts mention Ronald's reports of hearing
00:25:24
squeaking shoes on his bed for six nights in a row whoa so now the demon has some new sneakers that he's breaking
00:25:31
in on Ronald's bed some new Nike High Tops now it's worth noting that none of the accounts mention which of the family
00:25:40
members heard these sounds but after about a week of Ronald's complaints The Sounds did finally become audible to the
00:25:46
other members of the family aside from just Ronald but the noise was quote only heard at night when the boy went to bed
00:25:52
yeah cuz that's when you go that's when you go crazy yeah that's your time that I mean if a demon is going to start
00:25:58
partying it's definitely going to be when the youngest kid goes to bed of course duh yeah that's how demon tree
00:26:03
Works absolutely it does read the handbook read a book exactly thank you by the end of the week though Ronald's
00:26:09
mother and grandmother had accepted Ronald's claims as fact and they too started having paranormal experiences
00:26:15
good for them and good for them that was a crazy reaction let's go girls he said hell
00:26:25
yeah Nana one instance both women were laying down on Ronald's bed and they quote heard
00:26:32
something coming toward them similar to the rhythm of marching feet in the beat of drums this is all adding up and that
00:26:38
seemed to travel the length of the mattress and back again yes conga line all I can think of is the like the new
00:26:44
Gaga song Abracadabra it's like I love it and he's just like voking oh my God the demon I love it voguing
00:26:56
and throwing pictures of Jesus [Laughter] Christ now the next significant event came about a week later on January 26
00:27:06
when Aunt Tilly died no Aunt Tilly died from complications of Multiple Sclerosis
00:27:11
at age 54 oh she's young I know oh an MS that's tough yeah that's awful poor Tilly I know now given the special
00:27:20
relationship that Ronald had with his aunt til's death had to have been a devastating event for not him of course
00:27:26
and the entire family oh hell yeah now believing that Tilly's death might have had something to do with the events
00:27:31
happening in the house Ronald's mother held a seance with the Ouija board a few nights later in an attempt to contact
00:27:38
Tilly spirit I that sounds awesome I'm obsessed like that's awesome yeah she's just like let's Seance about it I think
00:27:48
it's rad like what a cool mom and I think the grandma probably went too cuz she was into spiritualistic [ __ ] I would
00:27:53
have loved to grow up in this house yeah that's pretty cool now according to her
00:27:56
testimony provided to father Raymond Bishop Odell called out to the spirit and asked if you are Aunt Tilly knock
00:28:02
three times supposedly Ronald's grandmother said she could feel waves of air rushing over her face and head and
00:28:08
then all three participants heard a faint knock three times and Odell called out if you are Tilly tell me positively
00:28:16
by knocking four times at which point she heard four distinct knocks followed by a quote claw scratching on Ronald's
00:28:24
mat on Roland's mattress Ronald's mattress you can keep that all in because he has 47 names that's scary I
00:28:32
don't like the claw well the other thing is you could ask a spirit who they are and you could say are you on Tilly and
00:28:40
they could say yeah [ __ ] yeah of course I am yeah it me that's the thing like you think a demon's going to be like ah
00:28:45
[ __ ] no caught me that's not my name it's me be I can only answer to my name like no they lie you're just him a cloak
00:28:53
I don't think that he's like totally opposed to lying no definitely not yeah so I don't think it's on I just wanted
00:28:58
to make that clear but after the Seance the story starts to get a little hazy and a little inconsistent according to
00:29:04
marnik Odell began quote alternating her beliefs that the problems with her son either were the work of the devil or
00:29:11
their departed relative she like couldn't make her mind up uh both of those sound like uh bad choices a
00:29:17
stretch Yeah so basically she thought that either the house was being haunted by the spirit of a Tilly or that some
00:29:22
sort of demonic entity had attached itself to Ronald and he was now harassing the family but Odell couldn't
00:29:27
quite set on which of the two she believed oh the devil I mean there's a lot going on so it's either the devil or
00:29:32
Aunt Tilly or Aunt Tilly and now we need Jesus Christ you need Jesus Christ to intervene you need your lord and savior
00:29:41
now whatever the case this is the point where according to skeptic Joe nickel quote the case which began as a seeming
00:29:47
Poltergeist outbreak soon Advanced to one of alleged spirit communication to one of supposed diabolic possession oh
00:29:54
which I love I am obsessed with the word diab diabolical yeah I describe many things as diabolical and now my kids
00:30:02
have started to call things diabolical I haven't heard that yet and I I can't wait for the moment that iidea we were
00:30:07
playing Mario Kart last night and one of them said that um Daisy is diabolical Daisy is diabolical that's I love when
00:30:16
they use things perfect they didn't I was like agreed is she like the village girl uh no she's the redhead princess oh
00:30:24
[ __ ] Daisy but they saw her a statue of her dancing with Mario and they were very angry for p Princess Peach oh I
00:30:30
don't like Princess Peach either yeah I don't mind her I she makes me really mad
00:30:34
at Mario party I just wanted to say that time to put that out the village girl is
00:30:38
diab the villagers are wild I don't like them no anyway back to the story yeah in
00:30:43
the early days of the phenomenon the hunkers reported experiences that would become common in later claims of
00:30:48
poltergeist activity including an instance where a parent and orange quote flew across the room where Ronald was
00:30:54
standing eat your fruit eat your fruit he said have a smoothie food and beverages were knocked from tables and
00:31:00
counters other objects seemed to fly off the shelves and even a bobble was hurled
00:31:04
from a shelf and fell right at Ronald's feet read the Bible Read It and Weep not
00:31:11
willing to rule out the possibility that her son was possessed of course Odell reached out to Reverend Luther Schultz
00:31:17
the minister and the family at the family's Lutheran Church she detailed what had been happening in the home and
00:31:22
explained that she was very worried that Ronald was quote the victim of an evil ghost and wondered if it could be on
00:31:28
Tilly an evil ghost I'm like that's not fair just because you don't like your sister-in-law doesn't make her evil no
00:31:33
and it I don't know evil ghosts don't feel real like a thing yeah no it's either a demon or ghost yeah or just a
00:31:42
regular ghost it's a ghost yeah agreed well in order to help guide the family Reverend sches determined he needed to
00:31:48
see the phenomenon for himself and so he arranged for Ronald to spend the night at his home don't love that Ronald
00:31:55
arrived at the parsonage a little after 9:30 : p.m. uh excuse me a little before
00:31:59
9:30 p.m. on the evening of February 17th and he stayed until a little after 9:00 a.m. the next morning according to
00:32:06
the Reverend that evening he heard scratching noises at various points throughout the night and witnessed uh
00:32:12
quote bed vibrations a chair in which uh Roland Ronald Roland Ronald sat tipping
00:32:19
over and the movement the movement of a pallet of blank it's the Rolland Ronald that's
00:32:25
[ __ ] up and the movement of a pallet of blankets upon which Roland sat a pallet of blankets is he like princess
00:32:32
in the pee yes put him on a bunch of blankets yes obviously sitting there and it moved
00:32:40
demonic the devil oh all right he's just staying at your house while that all happens yeah I don't like that well a
00:32:46
little over a week after Ronald spent the night at the reverend's home the phenomenon in the hunkler house
00:32:51
escalated and became more physical beginning on the night of February 26th and occurring four nights in a row he
00:32:57
complained to his parents that something had attacked him in the night and showed
00:33:00
them scratch marks all over his body that seemed to have been made by claws dang like the noises and the other
00:33:07
various phenomena father Bishop's diary indicates that the only other person to have seen the marks on Ronald's body at
00:33:13
the time were his mother okay but like they're there yeah so for more than a month the hunkler family had been
00:33:19
experiencing this crazy [ __ ] in their home you know it wasn't exactly dangerous but it was disruptive
00:33:25
especially for 13-year-old Ronald at time damn who you know was the focus of the activity that's very
00:33:32
um unfortun pues so it's very puberty s but there are studies that that happens I know
00:33:40
we've seen it different cases remember that one that we did a couple months ago that was the teen one that made me think
00:33:46
of then that one was like [ __ ] crazy like I I believe that one puber is wow puberty for so many reasons but it is
00:33:55
interesting that Poltergeist activity can kind of you know M kick to that well and you know it's causing a lot of
00:34:01
issues for him he got kicked out of school it removed a lot of I mean he didn't have like a lot of social support
00:34:07
but what social support he did have at school was now gone yeah outside of the home but fortunately Odell hunkler did
00:34:13
get the assistance that she was hoping for from the church but that assistance added even more people to the story
00:34:20
whose version of events would further complicate and already convoluted story making it even more difficult to tell
00:34:26
fact from fiction let's go which to some people is like wamp wamp to me that's like awesome no add more [ __ ] to this
00:34:33
give me more give me more crazy [ __ ] so the events that comprised the first month of Ronald's Supernatural
00:34:39
experience were based a lot on Odell and Ronald's reports to Father Bishop with some additional statements from one or
00:34:45
two other Witnesses they were pretty benign to a point until the introduction of those claw marks on Ronald's body
00:34:52
that obviously indicated that the problem was getting a lot worse and for Odell who had previously been un sure
00:34:58
about the origin of her son's problem it was now very clear that he was the victim of an evil entity an evil demon
00:35:05
an evil onion taken a back now in late February Odell consulted with Father Albert Hughes the priest at St James
00:35:13
Catholic Church in nearby mount rer a different priest now so father Albert Hughes explained that he knew very
00:35:20
little about demonic possession and even less about exorcism but he suggested that the family used blessed candles
00:35:26
holy water and prayer to bless the home that sounds nice it does I don't know why I went Southern but I just want to
00:35:33
you have to with this kind of stuff you just do in the days that followed Odell did as Hugh suggested she sprinkled holy
00:35:38
water around the house she prayed constantly but very little seemed to change at one point she actually even
00:35:44
tried to baptize Ronald placing candles around his bed and saying prayers and according to the diary account the
00:35:50
flames on the candles around the bed quote All Began moving back and forth in unison and Ronald he responded with rage
00:35:57
oh that's upsetting because when you first said that all I can think of was the Flames just being
00:36:01
like all just dancing together and Abracadabra still play it's always AB but then Roland is Roland Ronald is like
00:36:11
he's pissed that's that's upsetting that actually hurt I'm going to take a sip my
00:36:16
kids actually love the new Lady Gaga song as they should yeah all of them love it I love that for them now father
00:36:22
Bishop's diary indicates that this Behavior resulted in uh Ronald actually being admitted for three day stay at
00:36:28
University Hospital though there aren't really additional details about that hospitalization or the outcome they said
00:36:35
you got ghosts in your blood but like that's him like whatever he did like in response to being baptized landed him a
00:36:43
three-day Hospital stun sounds intense super duper sounds like it was more than just being like ra yes yeah but that's
00:36:51
all I thought that I could do I don't want to reenact anything and end up in the hospital myself and we've got you
00:36:56
know we've got flames in here yeah lighting [ __ ] up fire I have a job to do yeah so after Ronald's discharge from
00:37:04
the hospital the family took a trip to visit relatives in Missouri where according to Bishop other members of the
00:37:09
family also witnessed the markings on Ronald's skin it's here that father Raymond Bishop becomes involved for the
00:37:15
first time really he was a member of the clergy at St Louis University St Louis St Louis and the director of the
00:37:23
school's Department of Education in later years most of the information that informed both the legends about Ronald's
00:37:28
story and actually the story of The Exorcist would come from this man's diary I love that it's awesome something
00:37:35
about that is so spooky and cool it's like heavy metal yeah it really is like I did a rock on she did she was like
00:37:41
heavy metal heavy metal just all of you not regular metal no heavy that's why I the heavy variety that's why I like
00:37:48
really thrust my hands when I did it cuz if I if it was just metal I'd be like metal like just a
00:37:54
little but it's heavy metal metal so you have to thrust your hand thank you now anyways according to Thomas Allen one of
00:38:01
Roland's Ronald's extended family members referred to as Elizabeth was a student at St Louis University and after
00:38:08
becoming concerned about Ronald's condition she approached Raymond Bishop for advice like Albert Hughes the other
00:38:15
father and virtually all clergy at the time Bishop knew very little about possession or the right of exorcism
00:38:22
himself but he still agreed to meet with the family to see what he could do to help he lives to serve yeah I mean go
00:38:28
read up on exorcisms that's pretty much what he did that's what you can do he acknowledged that before he gave the
00:38:33
family his thoughts on the situation he needed time to quote think about what possession was and how it could be
00:38:37
proved I love that he's kind of like approaching it scientifically he is cuz he's like I need to think on this I got
00:38:43
to let me give me some time to think let me just quickly come up with a definition of possession first and then
00:38:48
I will discover how to fix it I'll work on it I like that so father Bishop met with the hungler family for the first
00:38:53
time on March 9th where he claimed to have witnessed the scratching on Ronald's body body and actually saw the
00:38:58
boy's mattress move at the time he kept his suspicions of any danger to himself but later he would admit that he quote
00:39:05
had sensed from the beginning that Robbie was threatened with possession he's like I wasn't going to tell these
00:39:10
people but but I thought [ __ ] was going to go down he said I had an inkling I wasn't going to give them a heads up but
00:39:17
what am I to do yeah so at the time he told the hunkers that he needed to consult with some other Jesuit priests
00:39:22
and that he would get back to them ASAP yeah hopefully Robbie doesn't get like super duper POS possed in the meantime
00:39:28
yeah you just kind of cuz right now it's just like a little threat of it like it
00:39:31
was like on the precipice of possession yeah you know it wasn't quite there possession is in the air yes you know
00:39:37
yes I feel like that might be like a good name for a movie possession in the air yeah I like it I like that maybe a
00:39:42
band name we'll we'll Workshop we're possession in the air I kind of like that yeah hello Wisconsin so it's not
00:39:48
completely clear who Bishop spoke with and what he told them at all um you know unclear things but as Mark up sasik
00:39:57
points out this vagueness and ambiguity would become one of the Hallmarks of Father Bishop's reporting which is a
00:40:03
little problematic when you consider the fact that the bulk of the information about the exorcism did come from his
00:40:07
reports yeah problematic and fun pretty awesome abasic wrote Bishop does not always make it clear who actually
00:40:15
witnessed the events being described he often fails to mention when the priests are in the room when they're absent and
00:40:21
when the information comes secondhand from the boy's mother the possibility of fraudulent activity is neither
00:40:26
considered nor investigated what he needed was a good editor you know just an Editor to be like you're
00:40:32
not really giving us enough uh texture in these descriptions can you can you kind of like who else is in the room
00:40:38
that's the thing it's like like when they go back on Bravo shows and they like the editors give you the time
00:40:43
stamps of the events that happened important he needed something like that so regardless of how things played out
00:40:48
behind the scenes though two days later on March 11th Bishop father Bishop returned to the family this time in the
00:40:54
company of another key witness in this story father Willi in bowar so many fathers lots of fathers daddies
00:41:00
everywhere yeah around that's inappropriate to say s horrifying leave it in F around 11:00
00:41:07
p.m. at night Ronald went to bed at 11 p.m. at night I don't know I'm just feel silly 11:00 p.m. at night at night
00:41:15
that's actually one of my biggest book I even know shocked you said maybe I'm almost possessed maybe around 11:00 p.m.
00:41:23
in the evening Ronald went to bed at which point the three men gathered around his bedside and B I hate it you
00:41:30
know they had to wait until he was sleeping B read the naena which is the Catholic devotional prayer it also could
00:41:37
be the Novena I didn't look it up and reportedly blessed the boy with a quote piece of bone from the forearm of St
00:41:43
Francis Xavier and fixed A Relic en crusted crucifix under the boy's pillow before leaving the room this is the most
00:41:50
metal [ __ ] I've ever heard why do you have a bone from the forearm of St Francis Xavier
00:41:57
Boop just like Boop him with the boat did he say that that's okay for you to have I don't know about that he's not
00:42:05
here to say that's what they just assum they're Assuming he's fine with it they say about assuming you know what though
00:42:12
so far he hasn't made a fuss so they're not maybe this is his fuss maybe this right here is his fuss
00:42:19
this is how he fusses the fact that they just Bess they quote unquote blessed him
00:42:23
with a piece of bone from the forearm of Mr St Francis Xavier I don't know and put a relic encrusted
00:42:31
crucifix under his pillow yeah you can't [ __ ] make this up no you literally can't real like you can't make that up
00:42:41
well a short time later while the priests were sitting in the living room with the family they heard a loud crash
00:42:47
come from Ronald's room Ronald Roland's room and ran in to see what happened in the bedroom they found that a large
00:42:52
bookcase had slid across the room a bench had been flipped over and the crucifix that father B had put under the
00:42:59
pillow appeared to be moved to the edge of the bed oh B also claimed that he witnessed the bed shaking when they
00:43:06
entered the room and it only came to a stop when Odell shouted Aunt Tilly stop Here's my thought though I think there's
00:43:13
two things at play here I think there's a Damon who's trying who's like pushing over bookshelves and [ __ ] and trying to
00:43:19
pull that Relic out I think on until he shaking the bed to wake him up to help like get out of the room maybe so that
00:43:26
that's my view of this I think Aunt Tilly is trying to let him know that shit's a foot I like to believe that
00:43:31
Aunt Tilly just passed on yeah if that's a if they're shaking the bed and she yells on till he stop and the bed
00:43:37
shaking stops then that she was trying to wake him up I agree she was the one doing it I like it yeah well the scene
00:43:43
witnessed in Ronald's bedroom that night was enough to convince the priest that something had in fact possessed the boy
00:43:49
after a few nights spent weighing their options the two men took their concerns to Archbishop Joseph Ritter and not to
00:43:55
be confused with John Ritter no this is Joseph Ritter the I know rip and on March 16th B was given permission to
00:44:03
perform the right of exorcism he got permission from the arch dasis which usually doesn't happen Arch dasis is
00:44:10
pretty stingy with their permission giving they don't just hand it out interesting that they don't just hand it
00:44:15
out but they gave it to a man who like wasn't super familiar with exorcisms yeah they were like you'll figure it out
00:44:20
they were confident in his abilities yeah he I mean he said he was coming up with a definition so and it seems as
00:44:25
though he did that night bishop and Bower returned to the house this time in the company of Bow's assistant father
00:44:31
Walter hollerin who becomes a bigger player later on and started what would ultimately be an almost month-long
00:44:38
process of attempting to exercise whatever evil entity had possessed Ronald hungler now if you've ever seen
00:44:44
an exorcism yeah picture that happening for a month no that's insane I don't have
00:44:52
the stamina a lot of times they last like a couple hours or like a couple days and even that is horrifying
00:44:57
a month a month almost a month yeah uh for reasons that remain unclear throughout the process Ronald would be
00:45:04
moved back and forth multiple times between his aunt's home in a local rectory and um a lexian Brother's
00:45:10
Hospital in St Louis huh so he was like hospitalized during this now after introducing the family to Father holl
00:45:18
howerin father Bodin wasted no time getting to work you cannot waste time when you're exercising no it's time yeah
00:45:23
on the treadmill or in a religious way yeah so in Ronald bedroom bow started talking with Ronald Roland to quote
00:45:30
examine his conscious and make an act of contrition before starting the right then joined by the two other priests and
00:45:36
several family members the group gathered around Ronald's bed and started praying according to Father uh as they
00:45:42
prayed the mattress began to lift slightly off the bed and then lower back down but he insisted that the family
00:45:48
ignore the theatrics and continue praying ain't no way I could ignore those theatri I could not pray through
00:45:53
that no way no for hours the three priests recite the right in Latin while the family continued their prayer and
00:46:00
finally the first cycle of the right had ended and father Baler concluded by shouting precipio Tibi which is I
00:46:07
command thee love it I don't know if I said it really well but I did my best priest yelling in Latin is one of the
00:46:13
scariest things ever yeah I don't even like like you really shouldn't read the Latin I should not read the Latin you
00:46:19
see what I did there I set that up but when he yelled that Ronald screamed in what sounded like terrible pain oh no
00:46:27
and his father bow was concerned as far as he was concerned Ronald's scream was evidence that he was indeed possessed
00:46:32
and that the right was actually working hell yeah so the priest continued aggressively reciting that right of
00:46:37
exorcism as Ronald just wed around uncomfortably on the bed yeah in his wild thrashing he quickly kicked the
00:46:44
blankets away uncovering his body and with his pajama top unbuttoned the participants in the room watched as
00:46:50
three red long welts appeared on his chest as if something was attempting to cut its way out of him from the inside
00:46:58
damn yeah later father Bishop would describe the welts as quote marks raised up above the surface of the skin similar
00:47:05
to an engraving ooh and father B he paid no attention to the welts he just carried on with his right oh yeah as
00:47:12
more and more welts started appearing on Ronald's body the more they recited the
00:47:16
more Ronald appeared to be in like immense pain and soon the welts and scratches started producing faint lines
00:47:21
of blood all over Ronald's legs his stomach and his back holy [ __ ] yeah the the longer the ritual dragged on the
00:47:28
more and more pain Ronald seemed to experience at one point one of the relatives in the room claimed that they
00:47:33
saw the image of the devil the devil the Devil Himself appear on Ronald's thigh they saw it in his journal Bishop
00:47:43
wrote The Arms were held above his head and seemed to be webbed giving the Hideous appearance of a
00:47:48
bat okay at other times in the evening bats are awesome he's not saying they're not the Hideous appearance well he
00:47:55
actually is it is rude you should think about his words yeah at other times in the evening though participants reported
00:48:01
seeing words appear in the scratches on Ronald's body people saw the words hell go and a large x on his thigh okay and
00:48:11
that was before the days of Twitter turning to X so I don't know what that meant exactly now after hours of the
00:48:17
Latin ritual the group finally broke for the night cuz everybody was really tired
00:48:21
yeah and Ronald appeared to fall into a deep sleep but through the night while still conscious he would periodically
00:48:26
slam his fists into the headboard above him or into his pillow and the next morning when father bodar asked what he
00:48:33
was dreaming about Ronald said he had been fighting a huge Red Devil it felt slimy and was extremely powerful and
00:48:40
Dave said that sounds like puberty he said how else would you describe puberty if not slimy and
00:48:46
extremely powerful and I said Dave that's a great Point you're right I said I don't have
00:48:52
an argument for you sir in the days and weeks that followed both the exorcism and Ronald's Behavior grew more and more
00:48:59
aggressive and offensive o in one diary entry father bowder reports from 12 midnight on it was necessary to hold R
00:49:06
during his fights with the spirit two men were necessary to pin him down on the bed R shouted threats of violence at
00:49:13
them but vulgar language was not used oh that's good AR spit at his opponents many times he used a strong arm whenever
00:49:19
he could free himself and his blows were beyond the ordinary strength of a boy so
00:49:24
he I like I they were like he was violent but he was never vulgar he was never vulgar it's important to know it's
00:49:30
important to not but he was also swole he was packing a punch swoll Beyond his ears yeah exactly now at
00:49:38
times Ronald would also speak in a quote diabolical high pitched voice which like
00:49:44
love it what is a diabolical high pitched voice can you try it can you please try it so like we're talking like
00:49:49
a demon high voice diabolical high pitched it's got to be like do it I'm trying to like think about she's getting
00:49:56
ready she cuz you have to like get in a snarly way I think it's got to be like that kind of
00:50:03
I don't like it you got to like show teeth when you do ite doesn't like it either Mikey shook his head I mean it's
00:50:09
diabolical I'm just picturing like I'll get you my pretty that's diabolical and high
00:50:15
pitched yeah you know thanks I don't know we weren't there we weren't there and unfortunately they don't have voice
00:50:24
notes from back then they unfortunately he also was said to be swinging his fists at the priests and other adults in
00:50:30
the room he also supposedly broke father hen's nose [ __ ] I know and then at other
00:50:35
times he would sit up normally in bed and just sing sweetly oh that's nice said sit up and just go
00:50:45
afri oh that's great he would also sad cry off and on oh but then immediately his attitude would change and he'd start
00:50:53
swearing he did eventually start swearing and being vulgar and he would also make masturbation gestures in order
00:50:58
to embarrass the other people in the room keep it together that's diabolical it truly is other times he would spout
00:51:06
Latin words and phrases to the surprise of his parents who swore that Ronald did
00:51:10
not know Latin and had never been exposed to that language before if I know one thing about my kid it's that he
00:51:14
doesn't know Latin that's the thing at times though he was said to be more lucid and appeared to be on the men so
00:51:21
his parents started wondering maybe if it was time to return to Maryland and send him back to school yeah that sounds
00:51:27
like a great idea cuz no but there were like little like weekl long periods where he would be completely fine yeah
00:51:32
so they'd be like all right like I guess we 13 we got to give you to school you got to learn and [ __ ] this will just be
00:51:38
a silly time we think about later where you were possessed for a little while honestly what's funny is like that's
00:51:44
ultimately what ends up happening this man lives a long life funny story that we look back on but unfortunately and
00:51:51
this is so crazy as soon as Ronald caught on to their conversations he would become possessed again wow in one
00:51:58
instance when the subject of his returning to school came up he started thrashing around on the bed and tore
00:52:02
open his pajama top and it revealed that the words no school were scratched on his
00:52:08
chest this demon does not [ __ ] with the the heavy learning he said schools out
00:52:17
for I wish it said that instead that song wasn't a thing yet I don't think no so as the days wore on
00:52:24
Ronald became more abusive to anyone and everyone who entered the room he would swear at them he would attempt and
00:52:30
sometimes succeed to make himself vomit oh that would piss me off he would piss on himself and otherwise be assaultive
00:52:37
yeah in one instance he managed to break one of the bed springs from the mattress
00:52:42
and jam it into father bow Bow's arm oh uh drawing blood obviously another time when the family traveled back to Cottage
00:52:50
City for a visit accompanied by father bow Ronald became physically violent on the train he was said to have punched
00:52:56
bow in the testicles and screamed that's a nutcracker for you isn't it which is lowkey just teenage boy
00:53:11
[ __ ] that is L I'm like babe he wasn't possessed that's just a 13-year-old boy
00:53:18
he just doesn't have another 13-year-old boy to do it to so he does it to the priest that's
00:53:24
been sitting by his bed every night thinking of him punching a priest in the p and saying that's a nutcracker for you
00:53:35
isn't it is love isn't it I love I love that part of it that's a nutcracker for you isn't
00:53:47
it father can you confirm that's a nutcracker father can you confirm that I just
00:53:54
cracked your nuts D's Nuts it is literally if this kid had friends if he hadn't been pulled out of
00:54:07
school and all that [ __ ] oh he was Nutcracker in people when he was cracking everybody he's 13 years old and
00:54:13
he'd be doing it and being like that's a nutcracker for you huh and then they was
00:54:16
doing that that's why he got kicked out of scho but instead he's got like an older priest that HS out all the time
00:54:22
that's his friend he's like of course that's what we do oh isn't it so funny oh damn imagine being on that train I
00:54:30
would I would have taken on my phone my little bit 1943 wouldn't have stopped me just getting that for Tik
00:54:43
Tok well for some reason after all that craziness on April 4th the hungers decided it was time to go back to
00:54:50
Maryland so that Edwin could go to work and Ronald Roland could go back to school and nut crack or someone else
00:54:57
then after 5 days in Maryland Ronald started acting out again so he got sent back to Missouri and admitted to a
00:55:03
hospital where he was observed for psychiatric symptoms feeling like they'd left too soon Edwin and and Odell also
00:55:09
returned to Missouri to support their son those are good parents right there yeah the exorcism finally came to an end
00:55:16
on the evening of April 18th the priest had spent most of the afternoon and evening reciting the right of exorcism
00:55:22
over the boy who now was draped in several religious medals and holding a crucifix in his hand my God God it's it
00:55:30
creates imery yeah it constructs a visual yeah throughout the day his demeanor had swung back and forth from
00:55:36
calm and pleasant to mean and violent but by the evening he did seem to have calmed down and his father B recited the
00:55:43
Latin phrases over the bed demanding to know the identity of the demon that possessed the boy Ronald Roland's
00:55:49
demeanor changed again and he started thrashing about the bed claiming he was a fallen angel oh like the devil like
00:55:56
like Lucifer Morning Star yeah finally around 11: p.m. a quote new masculine voice emerged from Ronald who said Satan
00:56:04
Satan I am St Michael I command you Satan and the other evil spirits to leave this body in the name of Dominus
00:56:11
immediately now now now that's my best masculine voice like is literally like his beat
00:56:25
rest than sh broke [Applause] me Satan sat in the name of Dominus immediately immediately all junior girls report to
00:56:44
the gymnasium immedi immediately oh my God I haven't laughed this hard in years oh [ __ ] I love a paranormal story D
00:56:56
they're so good they're so fun well after that male voice emerged that was a clip by the way oh man it was it was
00:57:02
audio they got it from 1940 whatever uh like 19 yeah whatever that was funny after that Ronald Roland's body spasmed
00:57:11
one final time he fell backward on the bed and then in his normal 13-year-old voice he said he is
00:57:18
gone he said peed out y'all y'all he left he said Peace up hey town so later the ultimate Irish
00:57:32
goodai he didn't feel like staying any longer he didn't say bye but he just left so later Ronald would tell father
00:57:41
bod in that final moment of possession he had a vision of St Michael holding a flaming
00:57:47
sword Heavy Metal the hunkler family stayed in Missouri with the family for 12 more days just to be sure that Satan
00:57:55
was actually gone before finally returning home to Maryland during this time father checked
00:58:00
in with them regularly but as far as anybody could tell the possessing demon had left Ronald's body for good for him
00:58:07
by all accounts the phenomenon never occurred again once the hunkers went back to Cottage uh City Ronald was
00:58:12
enrolled at gorgonzilla high school and he went on to college where he studied chemical engineering and went on to work
00:58:19
as a scientist for NASA okay Ronald period okay the [ __ ] ucker who inspired the story
00:58:28
of The Exorcist became a scientist for NASA that blew my mind that's the funnest fact that is the funnest fact
00:58:36
the funnest of all facts the funnest fact thank you for agreeing that's really cool in a letter dated August
00:58:42
19th 1951 father Bishop wrote of his visit to the hunkler's house he said R now 16 is a fine young man his father
00:58:49
and mother also became Catholic having received their First Holy Communion on Christmas Day 1950 damn praise be I mean
00:58:57
I guess if anything's going to turn you Catholic it's an exorcism possession yeah well the diary of the account
00:59:04
written by father Bishop like I said became something of a legend at Georgetown University though few have
00:59:09
actually seen it I see it well few have so good luck yeah no one seems to be able to settle on how long the document
00:59:15
actually is some people say it's 16 pages and others say 26 okay but presumably this is how it came to the
00:59:21
attention of the Washington Post and other Washington area papers in late 1949 where it gained some brief traction
00:59:27
before mostly Fading Into Obscurity since none of the reporters seem to be able to track down any of the
00:59:32
participants to verify any kind of story other sources alleged that father Luther
00:59:37
miles the family's local priest was the source to leak to the press and that's when the story like really came
00:59:43
out while some of the press reports minimized the supposed demonic possession which is [ __ ] lame others
00:59:48
chose to play it up or just tell it as it was for all it was worth citing the various ungodly messages that appeared
00:59:54
on Ronald's body like no school like no school that's ungodly and the various examples of unknown telekinetic Force
01:00:01
like when the picture of Jesus Christ Jesus Christ was booty bumped off the wall exactly yeah if it wasn't for
01:00:07
William Peter Batty's 1971 novel in the movie that followed two years later it's
01:00:12
pretty likely that nobody actually would have ever heard of Roland do or Ronald hunkler it's true but the timing was
01:00:18
just right Americans were taking a particular interest in the occult at the time so the story was thrust back into
01:00:23
the spotlight and it kind of took on a life of itself now it's important to be clear that even
01:00:29
bat's novel was heavily influenced by Ronald's story even though it was it's actually just one of several influential
01:00:36
stories and events that also included the Lun possessions and The louvier Possession both were 17th century witch
01:00:43
trials that I think you would probably be pretty interested in covering so write that down beond I'm writing it
01:00:49
down right now and there were different archaeolog archaeological excavations that occurred throughout the early to
01:00:55
mid 19th centur across Africa in the Middle East that also inspired his story so with so many different versions of
01:01:01
the story floating around in the cultural Zeitgeist the question remains what exactly did happen to Ronald
01:01:06
hunkler in 1949 was he possessed by a demonic presence or was there something even more complicated going on who knows
01:01:15
now at this point it's probably impossible to say with certainty what exactly happened to Ronald but if there
01:01:21
was an authority on the subject it would probably be investigative journalist marsnik more than just the individual
01:01:27
responsible for discovering Roland Do's real identity he also devoted a ton of time to the story he conducted
01:01:33
interviews with more than a hundred people who actually knew the hungler family personally and the other figures
01:01:39
in the story all in an attempt to verify the details of what has become one of America's most iconic scary stories in
01:01:46
his interviews with Ronald's childhood friends and peers revealed that far from being an ordinary Shy Boy Ronald hunkler
01:01:52
was a very lonely somewhat troubled kid who was struggling yeah his father never
01:01:58
actually believed that his son was possessed reportedly was emotionally unavailable so he really comes up in the
01:02:03
story at all and the women in his life on the other hand were hugely influential almost to his detriment
01:02:09
especially like his mom I think using their love of spiritualism as maybe the only means of bonding with him and when
01:02:16
it came to Children his own age it seems like his behavior and you know flaws kept them at an arms length yeah but OBS
01:02:23
hasnic didn't just speak to Ronald's friends and family also tracked down anybody who was directly involved with
01:02:28
the case or familiar enough with those who were and of the three priests at the center of the exorcism Story Only father
01:02:35
uh howerin was alive when OBS hasnic began his investigation at the time howerin actually reluctantly agreed to
01:02:43
an interview but he ended up revealing a lot about the case and its Legacy oh damn when asked whether or not he would
01:02:49
go on record as saying he believed that Ronald was truly possessed he declined oh he said no I can't can't go on record
01:02:56
I never made an absolute statement about these things because I didn't feel I was
01:02:59
qualified I hadn't studied the phenomena and that sort of thing huh according to
01:03:04
him Ronald never spoke in a voice other than his own oh he never demonstrated Supernatural strength or abilities oh
01:03:12
and when asked about Ronald's supposed extraordinary strength howerin said I don't know I never even thought very
01:03:18
much about it it certainly wasn't Mike Tyson hitting me in the nose or something like
01:03:22
that and as for Ronald speaking Latin language that he supposedly didn't know and had only occasionally heard father
01:03:29
clarified I think he mimicked us oh so he's a nonbeliever okay you know I mean all valid all valid but the rest of his
01:03:38
interview with Father H howerin unfolded in a similar thread he recall Ronald spitting and swearing a lot he didn't
01:03:44
have any recollection of Ronald's vomiting or urinating oh and as far as the multiple reports of the bed moving
01:03:50
he acknowledged that they did but he said it was on rollers like any bed at the time so there was really no way of
01:03:56
knowing if it was moving like how it was from him moving or if it was okay yeah OBS asik's investigation obviously
01:04:02
provides a lot of clarifying information around what did and didn't happen during
01:04:06
The Exorcism of Ronald hunkler but it also provides some insight as to why there are so many gaps in the story and
01:04:13
how it managed to get out to the public yeah for sure and when it comes to the earlier part of the story where Bishop
01:04:18
claims to have been involved with the family in Ronald's hospitalization as well as his own attempted exorcism OBS
01:04:24
hasnic was unable to to find any information on Bishop's claims so we don't know his Research indicates that
01:04:30
Bishop didn't get involved until March and that the vast majority of the information he collected was from
01:04:36
secondhand sources okay abasik pointed out no mention is made whatsoever of the alleged first exorcism attempted by
01:04:42
father Hughes at Georgetown University hospital and nothing is written of the boy's father's feelings or level of
01:04:48
involvement or the possible presence of psychosomatic illness within the boy interesting very interesting if markup
01:04:55
snik and other Skeptics are correct and Ronald hunkler was never really possessed then what actually did happen
01:05:01
obaz says personally I do not believe Robo was possessed and instead he's come to his own conclusion based on
01:05:08
everything he learned about the case and the people involved he said there's simply too much evidence that indicates
01:05:14
that as a boy he had serious emotional problems stemming from his home life there's not one shred of Hard Evidence
01:05:19
to support the notion of demonic possession the facts show that he was a spoiled and Disturbed only child with a
01:05:24
very overprotected mother and a non-responsive father to me his behavior was indicative of an outcast youth who
01:05:30
desperately wanted out of uh Bladensburg Junior High School at any cost he wanted
01:05:35
attention and he wanted to leave the area and go to St Louis throwing Tantrums was the answer he began to play
01:05:41
his concocted game for his efforts he got a collection of priests who had no previous exorcism experience who doed
01:05:47
over him as he lay strapped to a bed his response was that of any normal child he
01:05:51
reacted with rage he wanted out without delving into the dyn dynamic of psychosomatic illness there's no
01:05:57
question there was something wrong with Rob do prior to January 1949 something that modern era Psychiatry might have
01:06:04
best addressed Rob do was not just another normal teenage boy my favorite part of that is that he got a collection
01:06:10
of priests as his PR like as his he said he was upset and he got a collection of
01:06:17
collection of priests yeah like that's just the most horrifying thing I can imagine that's not the prize that I
01:06:23
personally want like you oh you want to play this game here's a collection of priests that's going to sit by your bed
01:06:29
at night do you feel as though you won did you win did you win Ronald that's a that's a real lose lose it is well
01:06:35
whether he was possessed or not Ronald hunkler's 1949 claims of possession did help to fuel America's imaginations and
01:06:42
of course America's interest in the Supernatural and of course as one of the primary influences on The Exorcist his
01:06:48
story is everywhere it's like part of American Supernatural lore and while we may never know if it was real or not it
01:06:56
seems at this point really doesn't matter no it really doesn't it's a fun [ __ ] story the story is [ __ ] a
01:07:01
blast all the way through I think it's great yeah I like that story I love that story and I love that he became a NASA
01:07:07
scientist so like he got it worked out all and he came out the other end personally good for him I think he was
01:07:14
possessed I think you know let's go girls yeah and I think I my story is that he was possessed and until he
01:07:20
helped him out that's I like that thank you thank you Jesus Christ Jesus Jesus Christ um so yeah if you want to keep
01:07:31
listening we hope you do we hope you keep listening we hope you keep it weird but not so weird as getting a prize of
01:07:43
three priests of a colle un you want that a collection of priests you can have it if you want it if you want it
01:07:50
keep it that if you want that you get it and that if you don't you don't you don't
01:07:58
bye bye [Music] [Music]

Badges

This episode stands out for the following:

  • 75
    Most unserious (in a good way)
  • 70
    Funniest
  • 70
    Biggest cultural impact
  • 65
    Most memeable

Episode Highlights

  • The Identity of Roland Doe Revealed
    The true identity of Roland Doe, the boy behind The Exorcist, was uncovered in 2021.
    “Can you believe that? It's crazy!”
    @ 04m 15s
    April 10, 2025
  • Ronald's Troubled Childhood
    Ronald Hunkler's childhood was marked by a smothering upbringing and social struggles.
    “Ronald was smothered by his obsessively religious mother.”
    @ 10m 54s
    April 10, 2025
  • Ronald's Eccentric Family
    Ronald's mother and grandmother introduced him to spiritualism and the Ouija board.
    “We got to celebrate our differences!”
    @ 18m 40s
    April 10, 2025
  • The Classroom Incident
    Ronald's behavior escalated to a paranormal event that made him the center of attention.
    “I'm not doing it!”
    @ 21m 08s
    April 10, 2025
  • Aunt Tilly's Death
    The death of Ronald's beloved Aunt Tilly triggered a series of paranormal events.
    “Oh, she's young! I know, oh MS, that's tough.”
    @ 27m 16s
    April 10, 2025
  • Escalation of Events
    Ronald's experiences escalated, leading to physical attacks and scratch marks on his body.
    “Dang, like the noises and the other various phenomena.”
    @ 33m 05s
    April 10, 2025
  • Father Bishop's Involvement
    Father Raymond Bishop witnesses strange occurrences surrounding Ronald's condition, sensing a threat of possession.
    “I had an inkling I wasn't going to give them a heads up”
    @ 39m 05s
    April 10, 2025
  • The Exorcism Begins
    On March 16th, Father Bishop receives permission to perform the exorcism on Ronald.
    “Arch diocese is pretty stingy with their permission giving”
    @ 44m 07s
    April 10, 2025
  • Unusual Behavior
    Ronald exhibits violent and strange behavior during the exorcism, raising concerns among the priests.
    “He was violent but he was never vulgar”
    @ 49m 28s
    April 10, 2025
  • Ronald's Transformation
    After the exorcism, Ronald claimed he was free from possession and went on to lead a normal life, eventually becoming a scientist for NASA.
    “Ronald said, 'He is gone.'”
    @ 57m 18s
    April 10, 2025
  • The Funnest Fact
    Ronald Hunkler, the boy who inspired The Exorcist, became a scientist for NASA.
    “That's the funnest fact!”
    @ 58m 31s
    April 10, 2025
  • Legacy of Possession
    Ronald's story fueled America's fascination with the supernatural and influenced The Exorcist.
    “His story is part of American Supernatural lore.”
    @ 01h 06m 46s
    April 10, 2025

Episode Quotes

  • If you don't like them, you're just wrong!
    The Exorcism of Roland Doe | Morbid | Podcast
  • You know what I mean, like she's a little different.
    The Exorcism of Roland Doe | Morbid | Podcast
  • That's not fair, just because you don't like your sister-in-law doesn't make her evil.
    The Exorcism of Roland Doe | Morbid | Podcast
  • This is the most metal [ __ ] I've ever heard.
    The Exorcism of Roland Doe | Morbid | Podcast
  • That's a nutcracker for you, isn't it?
    The Exorcism of Roland Doe | Morbid | Podcast
  • It's a fun story!
    The Exorcism of Roland Doe | Morbid | Podcast

Key Moments

  • Classroom Chaos20:49
  • Seance Attempt27:33
  • Spooky Involvement37:32
  • Demon's Identity55:45
  • Final Words57:25
  • NASA Scientist58:28
  • Possession Debate1:05:04
  • Cultural Impact1:06:44

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown