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hey weirdos I'm Elina I'm Ash and this is [Music] morbid it is and your hair looks really
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good over there your hair looks really good over there your hair looks really good you get thewe without trying and
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that upsets me because I try really hard for the swoop your swoop is a good swoop
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thank you but it was it's not effortless it's full of effort full of effort know
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it looks great you're like I woke up like this no I actually did my hair this morning no you can tell that you did it
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but like but still even when you don't do your hair the swoop is swooping swooping swooping yeah uh I just had a
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glazed stick so I am feeling why is that so funny it's always funny I don't know why
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it's because it sounds horrible that's which is why I said glazed stick you have to you have to be very purposeful
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you can't run those two prounce but every been donkins everyone donks baby uh but it's a huge dut
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essentially which the look doesn't even make it any better ter they should name it something else uh anyways but it it's
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a big doughnut full of sugar and big donut stick that is glazed you know so I feel sugarful I feel sugarful I feel
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like sugaray and you know what speaking of sugaray funny little story before we start John got me a cameo of Mark
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McGrath sugaray sugaray who he just calls sugaray like just thinks his name is sugaray remember when you saw the guy
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at the airport John was like that's Sugar Ray John said that's Sugar Ray oh my God I I didn't know he was still
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alive and I was like he's like a he's like not an old guy not at all and he's like your age yeah no I think he's a
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little older than me sorry like come on but he had he told him that I was his biggest fan you are aren't you obviously
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and he sang me um Fly and he put my name in the song and it was I I can confirm it was a good yeah good it was a
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good C I wanted to say tick Tok it was it was very fun when will this episode come out can you tell them what you got
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John without spoiling it or no okay I got John so John loves a '90s R&B moment I think I've more than once said that
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John is a '90s r is a '90s R&B moment I play Genuine at my wedding simply for John yeah like he's '90s R&B is his
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that's everything to him and I'm not kidding you multiple times a day John sings this is how we do it by Montel
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Jordan and that was one of his first concerts and he puts it into like different oh yeah like he'll sing to the
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tune of it even like if one of our girls does something he's like don't put the glass there like he literally put the
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glass there like he does it multiple times and so the girls know the song it is part of
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our daily lives so I got him a cameo from Montel Jordan and let me tell you Montel Jordan first of all he looks
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phenomenal that that is a handsome man that man is a excuse me I was going to say the snack a snack that man is the
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whole damn meal and he was so sweet in The Cameo and I asked him I was like you don't have to but it would be sick if
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you could just sing a quick line love this is how we do it but I totally understand if that is like not something
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you want to do he did and his voice effortless phenomenal and John's just going to die and I'm so excited for it
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it's like one of those fun gifts that you're just like I can't wait to show you I know you need to send it to his
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phone like give him the link so that you can video the reaction cuz I want to see
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it if I'm not here oh yeah we love we love cameos in this house we love to send each other either genuine cameos
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that are like wonderful or hilarious ones yeah you can't even say with the hilarious going but just like ones that
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you're like they're like why would you s this person cameos a fun gift I will never
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forget when you got me a cameo from Lindsay Lohan my life was complete in that moment
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and she told you that I would still look sexy as a or not sexy uh you wouldn't look like a British man if chopped my
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hair off and I was like thanks Lind yeah she said so many great things it's true
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I love that and you got me one from gig good who's like my favorite Dr Queen ever a good one yeah so that's cameos
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we're not sponsored by cameos cameos and Dunkin Donuts but but you know it's a fun little gift if you can find some
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that are that are interesting to someone in your life I feel like there's this is
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not a odd for cam it's really not somebody for every why we're doing this but I don't know how we guys I just got
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really excited about Montel Jordan is like the real no the The Cameo that was honestly one of the best ones that I've
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seen truly was so didn't didn't hurt that he is a good-looking fo man anyways man
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anyways uh so so moving on from that there's no good way to segue truly not I'm glad you said it cuz I was trying to
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figure out how to segue in my head and I couldn't but uh let's recap um I do have
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a confession and it's that I lied to you I'm sorry yeah I said that part two was
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going to be longer than part one incorrect incorrect incorrect I swapped I was like I looked at the uh pages that
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I had written before we recorded and I was like oh um one is longer than the other and I thought it was part two but
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it was part one they're different by like a page length so you're not going to be like hurting by the end of the
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episode just in case you were counting by the minute and you were like [ __ ] you lied yeah and she knows I would
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never lie to you like intentionally definitely unintentionally a lot but let's recap a little bit so in part one
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we we got to know Joan uh Robinson hill we got to know her dad Ash and her mom and you know she got married a couple
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times and you really thought it was going to work out well in the end and unfortunately it did not
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because whether or not uh John Hill has anything to do with her death I don't know personally I think there's the the
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waters are too murky to say for sure yeah but whether or not he did kill her he uh is a turd monster for the way that
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he treated her I was going to say that's the thing like whether or not he was involved in her death which again we're
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not saying he was cuz I have no [ __ ] clue this H it's in part two it's really I don't think it's going to be cleared
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up it gets even murkier yeah so and it's like regardless of that he was a shitty
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husband yeah exactly and honestly it sounds like he wasn't a very present father as well no at least not for like
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the first part of boot's life I think I think he got to be from the sounds of it
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I think he got to be a little more involved like after Joan passed away well I hope it was good for boot and I
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think it was so I I hope that it was cuz Lil boot deserves that Li boot you do deserve that boot baby you deserved it
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but yeah but as we know uh Jones father Ash was like a very big presence in her life and when she did pass away he
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full-heartedly believed that John had something to do with it and he it was essentially like his life's mission to
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figure it out now when I left off uh in part one we had just gone through basically Ash trying to get anywhere
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with the district attorney a team of doctors to prove this and when we finally did finish part one he had um he
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was going to go before a grand jury okay like he was being invited so let's pick
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up with the grand jury in July 1969 one doctor after another filed into the Harris County Court to testify in the
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grand jury case presented by McMaster the district uh assistant district attorney since the case rested mostly on
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the conflicting autopsy reports and the cause of death just about every Medical Professional with even a casual
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connection to the case was called to testify wow but unfortunately at no time did any of them present any evidence
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suggesting that Jan's death had been intentionally caused by Jon or anyone for that matter and it's like that's
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like unfortunately and fortunately cuz at the same time you're like I hope she wasn't mured you know like it's like but
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also like if she was I want her to get Justice like I feel weird like I'm like it's a strange feeling I would like
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evidence because I want her to get Justice if that's the case but I also like I hope you didn't get murdered yeah
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but also that's an awful way to die regardless it's like well and I would like some evidence because even if John
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is like an [ __ ] in a marriage he doesn't deserve to be painted a murderer if he that's the thing and like it
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stinks that it never really got cleared up you know but also there was like some
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neglect there cuz it's like he's a doctor why was he allowing this to get as bad as it got that that's a problem
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there's no question in my mind that there was neglect I mean the way that the maid walked in and
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found that sick she should never have been allowed to convalesce like that at home with especially with a doctor for
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but what these medical professionals did do was question and just like we were saying many of the qu the decisions that
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JN made and the days leading up to Joan's death from the medication he gave her to his refusal to let anyone to see
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her and then to like not wanting to take her to a hospital that was even close by
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yeah but despite the compelling hearsay evidence most people couldn't help but speculate that rather than being
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motivated by evidence of wrong doing it was Ash Robinson who was really behind the persecution of John Hill CU small
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town people talk of course after the grand jury had had heard excuse me all the testimony regarding Jon's negligence
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leading up to his wife's death even uh assistant DA McMaster was skeptical that their case would go anywhere as they
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waited for the jury to return a decision he told Ash I haven't got enough to convict this boy of running a red light
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D like I don't have anything here the problem it seemed was that the case was built mostly on complicated conflicting
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hearsay evidence from medical professionals and there was really no physical evidence whatsoever of criminal
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Behavior yeah so frustrated by Robinson's continued pressure McMaster told as if he wanted to get a conviction
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he would need to present the authorities with evidence of a crime like hard evidence needs something and it turned
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out that he was right without the physical evidence the grand jury did not return a verdict finding John
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responsible for the death wow but never want to back down from a challenge Ash consulted with McMaster and Frank briso
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and together the men came up with a plan to present the jury with evidence of Murder by neglect so they were going a
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different route now okay cuz that seems a little more likely to possibly get yes
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like some kind of conviction on their point was regardless of how she'd become sick it was J's negligence and
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inattention of Joan's serious condition that ended up leading to her death a result that he would have expected
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giving given his medical training yeah I mean all the signs were there that she was not doing well yeah so knowing that
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Jon had already refused Ash's attempts to have Joan's body exed he and briso managed to get the matter before a grand
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jury in uh mid August and in mid August the court ordered that the body be exuded and a third autopsy be performed
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which at this point it's like she can't even rest like peacefully and it makes me and I when I was first reading this I
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was like I don't know what a third autopsy is going to produce when the like she's already she had already been
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embalmed we were never going to get really anything concrete from an autopsy at that point and it's like the
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degradation of her tissues and any viable evidence here now is like so much much higher and again it like it's going
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to just murky the waters even further and it it's interesting what happens here so while the court may have ordered
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the exem it remained that both the ex exem and the third autopsy would be overseen by Dr yimi meaning that he was
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essentially being asked to reconsider or undermine his own earlier assessment of
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Joan's cause of death yeah which is pretty unlikely that he's going to undermine his professional he not going
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to be like wow I [ __ ] up right so knowing that none of Physicians who were assigned to the autopsy would be on his
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side Ash actually conducted some research of his own to find out who were among the most well-respected doctors in
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the nation like the the nation like let's go Ash is not given up no the list was short but it included Dr Milton
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helper the chief medical examiner of New York at the time whose credentials and reputation were Beyond reproach so
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ashway did no time contacting Halper and bringing the man to Houston where he was
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deputized as an act ing Harris County Medical Examiner so that way he could join the team of doctors performing this
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autopsy holy [ __ ] I know that you really overbearing but like the way that he just loved his daughter yeah I mean
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that's the thing like if like he has the money to do this so it's like if he has
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the money to do this then it's like if I I would do the same thing if I had you know if I was an oy Tycoon and could do
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all this after something happen I would go to the ends of the Earth and it's like the dedication
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and the and the love for his daughter and like wanting to see Justice served it's so heartwarming but then at the
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same time it's so heartbreaking oh it's heartbreaking cuz you're just like you're are you ever going to get the
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answers that you want he so sure that he knows what happen and to think to be so
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sure in like your own mind and heart that your son-in-law murdered your daughter yeah and that you're trying to
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find the evidence of that and and you're coming up at like what a I can't imagine
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that journey and then just to come up up like hard stop after hard stop of like it's it's not panning out and feeling
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like she's never going to get the justice that must have been so hard yeah and just the way he loved her like I've
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never heard of a dad loving his daughter like this hard he really went he did so
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on August 11th 1969 Joan Robinson Hill was exhumed and brought to the medical examiner's office now almost immediately
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something struck Dr yimi as odd oh the medical examiner had performed the autopsy in the middle of the embalming
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process like we know and Joan was buried immediately after but when he opened the
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casket to remove the body now he discovered dried mud on the inside of her coffin indicating that this was not
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the first time the coffin had been opened since it went into the ground what the [ __ ] when questioned about the
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mud the mortician noted that it had been a rainy day when Joan was buried and he
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suggested that the mud maybe got inside when they reopened the coffin at John's request so that he could get Joan's
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wedding ring and he said maybe that's when the mud ended up there okay the explanation seemed plausible but it did
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little to clear Jon of Suspicion because it's like you wanted to reopen the casket to get her I understand like
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wanting her wedding ring as like a a Sentimental piece of value I suppose but it's like you all sudden like you I
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don't you were having an elit affair yeah and and like didn't really care about her feelings about the whole thing
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that's the thing which I'm not saying like he doesn't have a right to grieve and you know there's complicated
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feelings everywhere here like I I get that right but given the det the casket again to take the wedding ring feels
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like it's like and to given the details of everything else like stacked against him right now it's just when you put it
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up against that it's weird yeah you know I'm not saying it makes him a murderer I'm just saying not at all it's a
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strange Behavior yeah strange and I think it's just within all of this that's the thing like it can be
00:16:00
understood yeah like we're both saying like I get it right but it's like put together with everything else you're
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just kind of like huh it makes you just scratch your head a little lift your eyebrow a little bit now it turned out
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that the mud on the inside of the coffin was uh only the first of many bewildering aspects of this case really
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because when Janes remains uh were removed and prepped for the autopsy the team was shocked and I I think you'll
00:16:23
have a bigger opinion of this than even I did but it was shocking to me and the team was shocked to discover that Not
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only was the brain missing but so was the heart what the [ __ ] her brain and her
00:16:35
heart were missing so the team contacted the original medical examiner Dr uh Arthur Morse excuse me who explained he
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had removed both during the first autopsy and taken them back to his lab for examination saying I knew this was a
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case where I couldn't go back in so to speak yeah I mean I don't know how it works here or in this time period yeah
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it's like the 60s you should have to have permission to keep body parts research there's a lot of red tape and a
00:17:06
lot of signatures that need to be signatured for you to keep a brain and a heart right that's what I would think
00:17:13
like at least when when I was working in autopsies if you were going to keep a body part of brain specifically or any
00:17:19
other you needed like a specific reason there were specific forms that needed to
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be signed by family members by everybody involved by the doctors mhm by everybody
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and it needed and there's like a chain of custody with that organ you need to know where it is why it's happening I
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mean every a lot of people have to agree to somebody keeping an organ because usually when you're studying one you
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take a piece you take your sample but you put it back and I feel like unless otherwise asked for right and that I
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mean that makes perfect sense to me that there would be a chain of custody and it
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would be like a rather intense process and to me the fact and we don't know what the process was like I couldn't
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figure figure out what the process was in the 60 this is a different state it's a different time period so I don't know
00:18:02
who knows you would think that some protocol would be in place yeah and because everybody thought this was so
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odd that kind of tells me that there there was some protocol that maybe wasn't followed and the fact that this
00:18:13
doctor this original doctor Arthur Morse felt like he needed to kind of potentially defy that because he
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couldn't go back in I'm like you thought that this case was going to come back up again that's the
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thing I'm like so were you not happy with the original examination you were able to do like and I don't
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think he was because that's what it sounds like because of the embalming process having already started so and I
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wonder I'm like did you think that maybe I mean again small town I'm sure people
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were talking did you think to yourself I need to be prepared if if [ __ ] goes down
00:18:50
and people want answers about state of this body cuz that's that's risky on his part and for him to take a risk like
00:18:57
that exactly sounds like he knew he was going to have to speak for something that's what it sounds like to me or
00:19:03
speak to something you know what I mean and that's just very strange yeah like it's strange to go against what you
00:19:10
would assume is a pretty re like a r rigorous protocol right right that cuz I know I can't imagine there's anywhere in
00:19:19
the country that is like super willy-nilly about just like I can just keep a brain like it's no like you have
00:19:25
to put that back strange unless otherwise noted obviously cuz there's plenty of times where you request to
00:19:31
keep an organ cuz you know you want to do studies on it for a long period of time right but again there's got to be
00:19:37
so much permission involved and to me the fact that if there was like a paper trail that would have had to have been
00:19:42
followed and he wanted to avoid that I like why did you want to avoid that because you were worried about John Hill
00:19:50
being a doctor well and I'm also wondering about the reasons for the brain and heart specifically because
00:19:57
usually when you do keep a brain it's because the there was something pointing to the brain being like a part of
00:20:05
whatever was happening here right or like you know the heart the same thing and it's like so why did you I know
00:20:10
those are two like the powerhouses of your body obviously but it's like did you just do that CU you were like these
00:20:15
are the two main parts CU it's like also like her kidneys were involved in a lot
00:20:21
of this I'm sure I mean her kidneys were the main reason why she had died keep those the kidney failure what did you
00:20:27
think happened yeah that you had to keep those organs instead that's the thing and there was and remember if you do
00:20:34
remember from part one he also took like multiple tissue samples and fluid samples and Y I think he was preparing
00:20:41
for the potential of a court case he was probably like they whisked her body away
00:20:47
so quickly shering protocol from the Geto Right and started and bombing it at lightning speed so no one could touch it
00:20:56
he I'm sure that was his first red flag cuz it was for all of us and this man is
00:21:01
a medical examiner he's probably like um excuse me this is not how this works so
00:21:05
maybe you're right maybe that's he was like you know what something's off about this right off the bat to me because I
00:21:11
would be I would be red FL of that popping out everywhere so maybe he was like I'm going to take the two most
00:21:18
important parts because they're going to be affected by whatever is could have happened here yeah I'm going to take
00:21:24
these two because I need to like keep this that's have it for cuz I don't know what's happening here or why she was
00:21:32
taken so quickly without an autopsy that's exactly so maybe that is like he just was like which like good for him
00:21:38
for like it's it's tough CU you need to have permission to do these things and like you know it gets hairy like
00:21:44
ethically and all that but like of course I'm glad he at least thought he was like looking and being like
00:21:49
something's a little off here right you know right exactly wow so wild and that's what my gut just says that he he
00:21:57
knew something was off and you wanted to be prepared right that's what it seems like so it took nearly two months but in
00:22:03
October of 1969 the first two uh excuse me the first of two autopsy reports were
00:22:08
submitted by a team of three Pathologists working on the case and uh I say the first of two autopsy reports
00:22:14
from this third autopsy I know that's a little confusing uh the first report authored by Dr Robert Buckland stated
00:22:22
that Jan's cause of death was and I quote a result of bacterial menitis with septicemia blood poisoning damn Dr yimi
00:22:30
on the other hand released his own separate report stating that Jan's cause of death was and I quote the result of a
00:22:37
f fulminating infectious process the specific nature of which is no longer determinable okay so he's backtracking I
00:22:46
was going to say he seems like he's uh because he was lines a little very steadfast that it was hepatitis yeah and
00:22:53
now he's like now we can't be sure I can't determine and he added quote it is my further opinion that the exact cause
00:22:59
and manner of death cannot be established from the exuded body autopsy alone okay now given all the
00:23:05
inconsistencies he actually Dr yimi recommended that a grand jury investig investigation be undertaken because he's
00:23:12
like I mean at least he's that good for him for at least not sticking with his original one just to stick to it yeah he
00:23:19
looked at the evidence again and he said you know what right now I can't say that
00:23:22
that's what it is I thought that was pretty honorable yeah that seems pretty good to me and while the court and Ash's
00:23:26
group of investigators waited for hell's report John Hill did his best to carry on like everything was normal despite
00:23:33
the fact that uh his life pretty much seemed to be collapsing all around him at this point I'm sure you can imagine
00:23:39
his business had taken a serious hit he's a plastic surgeon due to all the rumors and accusations leveled by his
00:23:46
former father-in-law and circulated then by the Houston gossip circuit yeah I mean if people think you're a murderer
00:23:52
I'm not want to go under anesthesia with you with a knife no and less than a year
00:23:57
in his marriage to an felt like a big mistake I don't want to say I told you so wasn't so exciting now that you're
00:24:04
not cheating on your wife yeah one I'm not sad about yeah he felt like she was never satisfied with anything he did or
00:24:10
said and he was already thinking about a divorce years later his mother would recall him saying if I didn't marry her
00:24:17
she threatened to call ID McMaster and say I killed Joan and if I divorced her she said she'd commit suicide and leave
00:24:23
a note saying I was responsible for her death and get it together I know if that
00:24:30
is if that is the case of what she said who knows either way it's like you guys are a wreck yeah get it together
00:24:36
regardless need to get it together like my goodness that's the thing now Dr Helper took several months longer to
00:24:42
complete his report than the other pathologist which I respect he was like no I'm getting this right yeah and when
00:24:47
he did finally submit it in April of 1970 now damn the report did not contain anything particularly damning in fact
00:24:55
rather than fully implicate imp replicate John and his wife's death helper's report actually cleared Hill of
00:25:02
many Rumors by noting the cause of death while indeterminate was unlikely to have
00:25:08
been intentionally caused I wonder how he was able to say those two statements though yeah I don't know what the cause
00:25:15
of death was exactly but I know that somebody didn't do it and it's like right explain to me how you can how do
00:25:21
you reconcile those two statements because I need you to have a cause of death to know that nobody did I'm going
00:25:25
need you to determine the cause of death before you tell me that no one could have caused it yes that's the thing like
00:25:31
those seem very conflicting to me I'm like n that doesn't that doesn't jive for me I think the reason that he said
00:25:36
that he didn't believe that it was uh intentional intentional thank you was because he found no evidence of any
00:25:43
injections having been having been administered that was a big part of the only way you can kill someone but it's
00:25:48
like have you ever heard of like an oral like like he could have given her any kind of medication orally or yeah you
00:25:54
know there's plenty of places where you might not find one under a nail yeah very true you know that's the thing
00:26:01
but in simple terms helper's report confirmed what Dr yimi had already indicated as a result of
00:26:07
miscommunication and improper medical practices immediately following Joan's death it was very unlikely that her
00:26:13
specific cause of death would ever be known which is really incredibly unfortunate oh yeah so frustrating now
00:26:20
while it may have dismissed the theory that Jon had directly caused his wife's death helper's report made it clear that
00:26:26
as both a husband and a doctor Jon's behavior in the days leading up to his wife's death was without a doubt
00:26:32
negligent of course and earlier treatment he said absolutely could have preent prevented Joan's death and that's
00:26:38
horrifying and that's the question at hand here at this point not did he do it but did he ignore symptoms that resulted
00:26:47
in her death so by May 1970 two grand juries had heard the District Attorney's argument and declined to return an
00:26:54
indictment against John Hill with the latest results from the autopsy in hand McMaster returned to the Grand Jury for
00:27:00
a third time and presented his case again this time with the opinion of one of the nation's most well-regarded
00:27:07
medical examiners for the most part the case was represented the same as it had been the other two times that they'd
00:27:13
been before the grand jury but this time jury members actually wanted to know the
00:27:17
extent to which Jon's Behavior had hastened Joan's death yeah and according to helper he said failure to provide
00:27:24
medical attention at home and reluctant delay in hospital ation for diagnosis and effective therapy aggravated a
00:27:31
situation which proved fatal yeah so he's saying he didn't take her to a hospital he didn't give her like in time
00:27:38
he didn't give her proper medical attention at home which is wild considering he's a doctor and so the
00:27:45
fact that it was too little too late is his fault is what hurn is saying yeah and what they're trying to prove and
00:27:51
after a brief deliberation the jury returned a decision against John Hill with 10 of 12 jurors in favor of an
00:27:58
indictment for Murder By Omission oh yes damn so unlike manslaughter which implies a person's negligence
00:28:06
unintentionally led to the death of another Murder By Omission implied that Jon had willfully intentionally and
00:28:13
culpably culpably I I feel like I always say that wrong and then I say it again and I'm like no that was right
00:28:19
contributed to Joan's death damn at that point the charge had actually only been
00:28:24
used in less than 20 court cases I was going to say I've never heard that used Never Had it been used in Texas up to
00:28:31
this point damn crazy only 20 cases 20 I I got like chill saying that that's crazy it's a lot so the indictment
00:28:39
immediately split the Physicians on the autopsy team with half flatly rejecting helper's conclusions and criticizing the
00:28:46
jury for their decision Dr Paul I think it's rette told the Press if criminal charges in this type of situation be
00:28:53
appropriate then anyone whose mate expires unexpectedly after a few days of symptoms whether from pneumonia heart
00:28:59
attack or septic shock could also be indicted and here's the thing like I get where they're coming from that like it
00:29:05
could seem like a slippery slope of like okay so if I don't know it's that bad and I don't take them in time and they
00:29:13
die that's my fault like right you know like if I if I can't see the symptoms you know what I mean like but then
00:29:19
you're like I think what it's saying here is that one he's a doctor which you are trained from years and years of
00:29:26
schooling and experience to recognize symptoms that somebody is very very ill and also her symptoms were not invisible
00:29:33
symptoms like you like I didn't know she was this sick and we brought her and it's too late right she was vomiting so
00:29:41
much that she couldn't even get herself into the bathroom right and was like the
00:29:45
maid found her covered in vomit and feces on the floor like it never should have gotten to that point she was
00:29:52
violently also I'm sure she was wildly dehydrated and I know that a doctor can spot dehydration from [ __ ] counties
00:30:01
away like there a doctor can look at you and go dehydrated like I mean hell I can
00:30:06
look and see if somebody's dehydrated like yeah it's there's certain symptoms you just know and it's like you know she
00:30:12
was absolutely and that alone can kill you mhm so if you see that she's going down that path of like even just
00:30:18
dehydration from being sick even at stomach bug you can get too dehydrated need to go to the hospital get an IV
00:30:25
right so even if she was going down that path where it was just like wow you're dehydrating here you should have got her
00:30:30
to a hospital absolutely so she could get IVs so that could stop it's like that's what I can understand that the
00:30:37
doctor here is saying could be a slippery slope if we allow this to be this case if this is
00:30:44
not the way it is but it's like this one is different this is case specific and that's why this has only been used 20
00:30:50
other times because this is very case specific and this case alone it's hard for him to reconcile and and explain why
00:30:58
he didn't get her to a hospital sooner exactly I don't get it it was multiple days like at least three days of
00:31:05
symptoms like that and it's like after the first day of violent violent symptoms if she's not better to the
00:31:12
doctor she goes that's the thing like that's the thing why not right what's the worst that can happen they're like
00:31:17
she's okay just go home and you put that hand in hand with not letting anybody in
00:31:21
the house to see her giving her what somebody said and obviously we'll never know was a tranquilizer tranquilizing
00:31:28
her when she's in this like I don't triling her seems like a terrible idea if she's vomiting exactly choke on her
00:31:36
vomit she could die that way right and it's like yeah and then people said she got this sick after something that he
00:31:44
gave her and yeah and that again that's hearsay cuz none of us were there but yeah there's a lot of factors that go
00:31:52
into this specific case exactly I can see why they used this charge and where it's silly to say that like oh like you
00:32:00
know if he goes down for this watch out husbands of America it's like no I don't
00:32:04
think that's the case and look how tough it was to get here in the first place you know it wasn't like this was like
00:32:10
stop one it's the doctor of it all really takes it up a notch right exactly so helper's autopsy report had
00:32:18
definitely influenced the jury's decision to return and indictment against John but so did testimony given
00:32:24
by his now ex-wife and Cur oh when John had initially asked his lawyer to draw the divorce papers his attorney actually
00:32:33
strongly advised against it noting that it would look pretty bad if he was already divorcing the woman he'd left
00:32:39
his wife for yeah but JN insisted it needed to happen and the couple was divorced on March 12th 1970 one week
00:32:47
short of the anniversary of Joan's death man yeah they had like man they had barely
00:32:53
made it a year what when I say you got to get it together together I mean you got to get it together you got together
00:33:00
you doing truly what you doing cuz it's like when they got married right after this remember we were talking about it
00:33:05
listen like I'm not saying anything I'm not saying he did it I'm just saying if you know the whole place is thinking you
00:33:11
might have done it and then you go marry the lady you were having an affair with
00:33:14
what are you doing 5 minutes after she dies got [ __ ] publicist you got to think a little bit and just use your
00:33:20
goddamn brain dude serious like come on it turned out though that John's lawyer was right to be worried when she took
00:33:27
the witness stand and obviously angry and bitter an performed very dramatically for the jury telling them
00:33:34
quote John John Hill had not only killed his first wife but had also tried to kill her on three occasions damn man an
00:33:42
insisted that uh JN had managed to fake his polygraph results and made her best attempt to convince the entire courtroom
00:33:49
and the assembled press that John Hill was a violent and dangerous man wow now he very well could have been yeah but
00:33:59
it's like I feel like in this case I don't know should we it's this is tough this is tough but it's also like I she's
00:34:08
mad she obviously right is she so mad that she's going to Brand him a murderer I that's the thing I mean that's pretty
00:34:16
mad that's pretty mad that's pretty bad blood between a an ex couple it is like I really don't like my ex-boyfriend I'm
00:34:27
not going I'm not going to paint him as a murderer like I'm not going to be like
00:34:31
oh [ __ ] it's my chance to get him behind bars for the rest of his life but and
00:34:36
and that's the thing is there some truth to something here that like she's saying
00:34:40
and who knows and I'm not saying that there isn't for the record like that's I'm like was there could be could he
00:34:45
have been violent with her but wouldn't you think that sitting on a jury you would question that testimony of course
00:34:52
problem that's why I'm like was that really a smart decision to even put her on the stand the and exactly that's
00:34:58
where the problem lies is if she is telling the truth then that sucks even more because she wasn't taken seriously
00:35:05
exactly and it's like everything about this sucks because it's like she could absolutely just be unhinged and be up
00:35:13
there angry and decide to ruin this really [ __ ] this guy's World up and just make up the worst [ __ ] you can possibly
00:35:21
make up about somebody people have done that oh yeah it's like we've seen it happen you know like it's not unheard of
00:35:27
case [ __ ] that got made up during that case yeah it's like to me it's shocking
00:35:31
to think somebody would be so angry about the breakup of a marriage that they would want to paint that person as
00:35:36
a murderer but itely happen and and again I'm not saying that that's the case she's not if she is telling any of
00:35:43
the truth then that sucks even more because she's just being ignored and treated as which like I'm not an an fan
00:35:50
as we know but like if she was being abused in any way or he was violent with her deserve that but I'm I the I don't
00:35:59
think I ever would have put her on the stand as a prosecutor or as a it was it was not good for anybody no to be quite
00:36:06
honest no but the accusation and the the accusations and the indictment were all
00:36:11
deeply troubling for John uh but just as the grand jury investigation was wrapping up he started dating a new
00:36:18
woman okay this one lasts okay John but seriously like the marriage I should say
00:36:23
like come on yeah Connie losby who would serve as a source of comfort and support
00:36:28
through the upcoming trial was the new woman John was dating under normal circumstances his romantic life
00:36:34
obviously wouldn't be that important but now in the context of his legal troubles
00:36:39
it appeared to the outside world that he had a bit of a habit of uh trading one wife in for another pretty rapidly in
00:36:46
fact it took uh John's lawyer Richard racehorse Haynes who I'm actually working on another case of his right now
00:36:53
oh my God considerable effort and convincing to prevent his client from marrying Connie before the trial he was
00:36:59
like I don't think you should do this dude just take a minute he's like I told you not to divorce Ann in the middle of
00:37:06
this and look at her on the stand over there that's not good for you now you're ready to marry again in the middle of
00:37:11
this like dude get it again use your [ __ ] brain like going on not only are you on trial for murder murder By
00:37:18
Omission like that you're in the headlines for that anyway you would be regardless you're a high society man
00:37:24
what the [ __ ] are you doing this is just wild play the game idiot this is just
00:37:28
wild Jesus Christ so when the trial did finally begin on February F uh yeah February 15th 1971 John Hill's love life
00:37:37
was of course put on display for everybody to see yeah which it didn't need to be it didn't need to be but in
00:37:44
this case it's like honey but that's what I'm saying like he didn't need this to be part why did you do this just take
00:37:49
take a beat yes take a beat pleas be a dad take a beat and deal with what's going on in your life like don't
00:37:57
I understand you need to like if if cuz again if he's not part of this if this is all like holy [ __ ] I didn't do this
00:38:04
which we don't know which we don't know I mean he was negligent that is by 100% nobody can deny that but it's like if
00:38:10
he's really just going through this [ __ ] and is like holy I understand needing
00:38:15
Comfort like somebody to like you're it's probably lonely and scary and like whatever I get that don't date someone
00:38:21
right away be be a friend find a friend yeah it's like wait a little bit that's the thing you know it's not going to
00:38:27
work good don't be seen in the 50 foot radius of a woman that you're not related to so in his opening statement
00:38:34
uh for the jury ID McMaster said we expect to prove that problems arose in the course of this marriage which which
00:38:40
resulted in the filing of a divorce petition on December 3rd 1968 when John learned that Joan planned to contest the
00:38:46
marriage using his affair with Anne against him he withdrew his petition McMaster continued on having failed to
00:38:52
terminate the marriage legally the defendant began to formulate a plan to R himself of an unwanted uh unwanted wife
00:39:00
so after opening statements McMaster called several witnesses to the stand to testify as to Jon's behavior and actions
00:39:07
in the days leading up to and immediately following Joan's death among the first Witnesses was a woman named
00:39:13
Diane uh setag Gast I believe she was a family friend who paid multiple visits to check check on Joan before she was
00:39:19
even admitted to the hospital among other things Diane told the jury that on the night before Jones funeral JN was
00:39:27
showing Laurel and Hardy films to his friends in the home just laughing and having a good
00:39:33
time the night before her funeral like after she had died the most violent death in front of him and in his
00:39:40
arms okay yeah according to Diane Jon said Joan had a and this is a quote had a very high fever approximately
00:39:48
106 and he had broken it he said after he broke the fever he didn't take her to a hospital because he thought she was
00:39:55
getting all right John 106 degree fever as an adult are you [ __ ] kidding me I like you're bordering brain damage
00:40:05
at that point 106 is just wild that is bordering brain damage right I think they found research that suggests that
00:40:13
it's like not as simple as that but I I don't I honestly do not know what the newest thing is that was always the
00:40:19
thought that pasted I think it was like 105 or something well so back then you would have thought back there I was
00:40:25
going to say so that was the thought process back there and and it still might be now I haven't seen the updated
00:40:30
stuff but I know for an adult that is incredibly High cuz I know they let kids get a little higher it's a strange thing
00:40:37
yeah and and that's only nowadays that they let kids get higher back then even you would have brought your kid or your
00:40:42
wife to a hospital well that's the other thing with that doctor who was like oh watch out husbands of America you're all
00:40:47
going to get thrown in jail for killing your wives if they die it's like but think about it if like you you did this
00:40:53
to like cuz he's acting like that's so wild and it's like but but if you just watched your
00:40:58
child suffer for days and did nothing to bring them to a hospital or help them you would be charged with something
00:41:06
exactly for like willfully ignoring that your child was sick so why is your partner any different agreed you know
00:41:13
like it's just like you should if it's a person in your life that you have especially legally bound yourself to
00:41:18
yeah you should have to bring them you should give a [ __ ] right yeah this I mean 106 is just to be like oh yeah she
00:41:25
had 10 fever but I broke it so like I figured she was fine why the [ __ ] did she have a 106 fever in the first place
00:41:30
it's like you're sitting there being like I broke it I broke it it's like how' you break it that like what did you
00:41:35
do yeah like what the [ __ ] and it's like why was it that high in the first place
00:41:39
that would be the shocking thing right sure maybe you broke it but you bring it to the hospital and go why did it get
00:41:44
that high exactly like what kind of infection is her body fighting off I mean that's a lot that's high damn now
00:41:50
by the time an Kur took the stand to testify on behalf of the state it was becoming clear that just as they had in
00:41:56
the grand jury case the District Attorney's office was hoping to succeed with a case built on innuendo yeah in
00:42:03
fact racehorse Haynes the uh defense attorney there had argued considerably actually to keep an out of the courtroom
00:42:09
for obvious reasons knowing that her anger and resentment could lead to a mostly slanderous mostly slanderous
00:42:16
testimony about his client but he was ultimately overruled and on February 25th she did arrive in court to testify
00:42:23
according to an Jon hated Joan and quote couldn't stand to be around her and she
00:42:30
that's also [ __ ] up to yeah we don't need to I guess we do need to know that no I know it's just like it just sucks
00:42:36
that's the mother of his child like that's really [ __ ] up it's sad now over the course of her testimony Ann
00:42:41
claimed that she'd found quote three laboratory dishes containing a reddish substance with white spots in John's
00:42:47
apartment and she heavily implied that he had used tainted pastries to poison Joan that's specific very specific all
00:42:56
of that is pretty specific according to an his violent rage was not just reserved for Joan like I said earlier
00:43:02
while on the stand she told the jury that he had also tried to kill her multiple times once by deliberately
00:43:08
crashing their car into a bridge abutment or abutment yeah and another time by quote trying to inject her with
00:43:15
a syringe so it's like these are like pretty specific again I know people lie I know I realize that I'm not being like
00:43:23
well how some much wrong yeah but it's like oh God that's specific [ __ ] and we're going
00:43:30
to get more specific because when asked by McMaster why she thought John was trying to kill her with a syringe an
00:43:35
said he just told me how he killed Joan with a needle he pulled the syringe from
00:43:39
his pocket and tried to get it into me I mean that's scary and who am I to say that that didn't happen I don't [ __ ]
00:43:47
that's the thing it's like I'm not going to sit here and say she's lying do I like an no do I do I believe her I don't
00:43:52
know I have no idea I'm not going to say she's wrong and that she's totally lying
00:43:56
like imagine if she's telling the truth well that's the that's exactly the problem you're just going to like but
00:44:02
it's like what a shitty way for this to come about if she is telling the truth cuz so many people aren't going to
00:44:07
believe it and just think she's angry and you wish that there was somebody there during those times like like you
00:44:13
wish that some kind of there was some kind of person near her that knew that there was something going on that could
00:44:18
be like yeah there was some stuff happening especially after that car crash it's too bad that potentially like
00:44:23
she didn't say anything then and they couldn't have figured out like was this intentional like you know how they can
00:44:28
look into that yeah this is this is interesting but an claimed that Jon's hand was shaking too hard to inject the
00:44:35
syringe into her and he actually dropped it but that he had another and again attempted to inject her with something
00:44:41
but abandoned his plan when the headlights of an approaching car came into view she said the [ __ ] now that
00:44:46
dramatic Revelation was immediately followed by a loud and emphatic obje um emphatic objection from Haynes the
00:44:54
defense attorney who argued that the testimony was prejudicial inflammatory and privileged as communication between
00:45:00
a husband and a wife that's [ __ ] up yeah and at that point [ __ ] he moved for a
00:45:09
mistrial it's [ __ ] up but the that whole loophole there people rely on that that's that's a weird that loophole can
00:45:18
be so [ __ ] detrimental and it it doesn't always work I I was watching something recently I don't even remember
00:45:25
if it was fiction or not or maybe I read something about it recently maybe it was
00:45:29
a dream maybe it was a dream no I remember reading or or watching something where like they were going to
00:45:36
try to use that defense but then they couldn't yeah definitely it's a hairy it's a very specific situation I think
00:45:43
that it can and I'm talking about like the privileged testimony but so but he was like [ __ ] this we're going for it
00:45:49
and he moved for a mistrial Judge Fred hoie overruled hayne's objection and called a recess but when they returned a
00:45:57
short time later the judge said he reconsidered what had occurred in the courtroom and granted a mistrial are you
00:46:04
kidding me that's why I was like why the [ __ ] did you guys want her on the stand
00:46:08
like I know it would have been great but the testimony was so intense and and so wow yeah that I I you could see this
00:46:20
coming from a mile away that a mistrial was going to happen oh and it's like again and if he really did do that [ __ ]
00:46:30
then that is so [ __ ] up that her just simply saying that he did that [ __ ] and
00:46:35
if it's the truth made a mistrial can you imagine that's real you s you sit up there and they say do you swear to tell
00:46:42
the whole truth and nothing about the truth and you're like yeah and you go ahead and do that like hopefully this is
00:46:48
[ __ ] up and if that's the outcome like that's why people don't testify sometimes that's why people don't talk
00:46:53
about this [ __ ] wow that's really [ __ ] up also uh judge hoie hooie I know that's a great name Hy I just had to say
00:47:02
it it's great judge hoie oh my God so outside the courtroom reporters had expected to find John Hill pleased with
00:47:08
the outcome and they were actually surprised by his reaction to the judge's declaration he told the Press I'm
00:47:14
disappointed that we didn't get to carry on with this I would have liked to get it over with oh being like I like I
00:47:20
really would like my name cleared here like I would like to be declared innocent not just because a Mist trial
00:47:24
does does carry with it some connotations like it cuz it's literally like something went to eyy and and and
00:47:31
we're not continuing but we still have no idea's going that's the thing yeah now it turned out that John may have
00:47:37
been right to be disappointed though a poll of the jurors conducted just a few days after the trial indicated that
00:47:43
there was an overwhelming majority in favor of an aquid wow yeah yeah so he was right so John Hill was not the only
00:47:50
one disappointed with the m trial obviously after spending hundreds of thousands of dollars in his pursuit of
00:47:57
justice and just in general Ash Robinson was outraged by this decision ID McMaster was also in a similar situation
00:48:06
he spent a wild amount of the state's time and resources pursuing this case that many at this point just believed
00:48:13
was a lost cause and given all that had gone into the case against John Hill to that point neither man was willing to
00:48:20
let it go so easily and a few months after the mistrial was declared the DA's office announced that the second trial
00:48:26
of John Hill wow would begin November 15th 1972 now throughout his relationship with Connie Jon had managed to keep the
00:48:35
details of the trial and his relationships with Joan and an kind of private from her somehow that's a little
00:48:41
shocking it truly is but over uh excuse me of course she knew why he was on trial and she'd heard about Joan's death
00:48:47
in the papers but she actually didn't know anything about Ash Robinson an's claims that Jon had tried to murder Joan
00:48:54
were also something that Connie didn't really know about oops and she didn't really know about any of the other
00:49:01
details that came out in court I don't I guess she wasn't there but that changed
00:49:05
in the days just before the wedding because he does end up proposing to her uhoh and just a couple days before the
00:49:11
wedding a folder arrived addressed to Connie's parents inside there were newspaper clippings reports and other
00:49:18
information detailing the entire situation the Press reports of Joan's death the reports from private
00:49:24
detectives and doctors and a wealth of information of about Jon's indictment and trial the envelope had no return
00:49:32
address but most in Texas assumed that it had come from at least Ash Robinson or his people yeah at least his people
00:49:40
trying to save save a gal which what they from what they think is you know I I can't be mad at that I I simply
00:49:48
can't information he and his truly believed to to warn this girl is the right thing to do guess in my opinion
00:49:57
and if he you know whatever it's just o if he truly felt this way and and I and he did truly feel this way now John had
00:50:05
fully expected McMaster to retry him for murder but in the meantime he wasn't going to let the district attorney or
00:50:11
Ash Robinson control the rest of his life and in June of that year he and Connie did end up getting married in a
00:50:18
small ceremony of friends I'm surprised her parents didn't yeah weren't a little
00:50:22
weary of that very interesting or maybe they were I'm sure they were to some degree but she's a grown woman so it was
00:50:30
his third marriage and her first by that point John's income had been seriously impacted by the case and most of his
00:50:37
savings had also been eaten up to pay for his defense and to make matters worse the bank that held several of the
00:50:43
loans that he had taken out to renovate the house had called in the loan placing
00:50:48
further Financial stress on this new couple and preventing them from even taking a honeymoon wow so sad but still
00:50:55
the couple was happy and excited about their future together with the new trial more than a year away at this point
00:51:00
everyone pretty much got back to what passed I guess for a normal life Jon and his lawyers continued pursuing a civil
00:51:08
suit against Ash for slander McMaster won excuse me ran for and won a seat on the criminal court and Ash Robinson
00:51:15
continued his uh protracted amateur investigation I guess we could call it of John Hill it was for the first time
00:51:23
in a very long time mostly quiet in the lives of everybody involved in the case Connie even actually felt like John's
00:51:29
colleagues and neighbors were finally putting the past behind him them and willing to welcome him back into Social
00:51:35
Circles things seem to just it's wild how when like how what time does how people are just willing to forget like
00:51:44
sure a new case happens a new and they just move on and they just move on exactly mhm so in late September of 1972
00:51:52
she traveled with John to Las Vegas for a plastic surgery convention neither of them was particularly fond of Vegas but
00:51:59
the trip kind of was like a honeymoon for them since they hadn't been able to take one after the wedding and they were
00:52:04
just really happy to be together like getting some time away they returned to Houston on the evening of September 24th
00:52:11
and took a cab from the airport back to the house both of them were eager to see
00:52:15
Robert little boot little Boot and tell him about the trip Connie practically ran to the door like she really loved
00:52:21
Robert well that's nice yeah she seems like a good woman from what I read and I hope it seems
00:52:27
like they were happy together so I hope they were yeah uh so she ran to the door
00:52:32
but when she got to it she was surprised to find the door locked so she pressed for the doorbell and waited for a minute
00:52:37
but nobody answered and inside all she could hear was the television on like really like like blaring loud and she
00:52:44
assumed Robert must have just gotten wrapped up in what he was watching and didn't hear the Bell but she also
00:52:49
thought why hadn't Jon's mother who was there taking care of Robert heard it so she peed sced through the small window
00:52:56
next to the door and she actually saw a figure moving in their Direction and she
00:53:00
figured it was Robert but as the figure got closer Connie noticed that this figure was dressed in what looked like a
00:53:06
green jumpsuit or coveralls with a hood covering their face what the [ __ ] and for a split second she was like why
00:53:13
would Robert or Myra John's mom be wearing a costume like what what when the door finally did open Connie saw
00:53:21
that it was indeed a hooded figure standing before her and she still thought it was Robert so she said what's
00:53:27
this and for a few seconds the two just stood at the door looking at one another
00:53:31
and not saying anything what and then it occurred to Connie that the figure before her was actually too tall to be
00:53:37
Robert and too large to be Myra and before she could call out to John the man in green grabbed her by a gold
00:53:45
braided necklace she was wearing and dragged her into the house oh my what yeah everything happened incredibly
00:53:53
quickly from that point the figure finally spoke telling them that it was a robbery Connie Twisted trying to get out
00:53:59
of the guy's grip and at this point JN is here and he steps forward to protect his wife and that distracted the
00:54:06
Intruder and gave the opportunity to Connie to break free of the intruder's grasp so now free Jon pushed Connie out
00:54:15
of the way and she ran out the front door toward the neighbor's house to get help she just reached the house two
00:54:21
doors down when she heard a gunshot and then she heard another shut up so she shouted to her neighbor
00:54:27
my husband's being murdered just as the neighbor opened the door fck is going on
00:54:31
right now it's insane Connie managed to calm herself down enough to call the police on the when when she was inside
00:54:38
her neighbor's house and explained what happened and then she called uh don fulenwider one of John's lawyers who
00:54:44
actually lived in their neighborhood so don races over on foot and he actually managed to reach the house before the
00:54:50
police did moving slowly he approached the front door which was still slightly open and he pushed in he pushed inside
00:54:57
and inside the house looked fairly undisturbed but then his eyes settled on something in the middle of the room
00:55:04
12-year-old Robert Hill was standing over his father sobbing with his feet his like Robert's feet and his wrist
00:55:12
bound with heavy tape he looked up and there was this is just so sad it's also very graphic there was still a piece of
00:55:19
tape hanging from the corner of his mouth where somebody had taped his mouth shut but at that point he had been able
00:55:24
to get it open and he looked up and he said they've killed my daddy oh my God destroy me which like ruined me I just
00:55:31
want to hug Robert I no he went the this kid went through way too much went through I was just going to say my by
00:55:38
the time he was 12 years old like and then like you think you're get like it sounds like Connie really cared about
00:55:43
him and like yeah it seems like it was going to be like a happy home hopefully oh this is all so complicated and like
00:55:51
very upsetting it's just [ __ ] up so Fuller carried the boy outside to the front lawn just as the police and
00:55:58
paramedics arrived at the house and they went back inside with the officers to direct them to Jon's body the paramedic
00:56:04
checked for a pulse or any sign of life but there weren't any and when they turned the body over this is a pretty
00:56:11
pretty bleak when they turned the body over they were shocked to find that Jon's eyes nose and mouth were
00:56:17
completely covered in the same heavy tape that had been used to bind Robert what and there was blood seeping out
00:56:23
from underneath whoever did this shot is that what they did they shot him they shot him and then covered his eyes nose
00:56:30
and mouth with tape or they did that first they yeah they did that first I I think what the [ __ ] yeah it's very
00:56:38
strange wow yeah so the paramedics approach just stunned Don F and wider and said I'm sorry Mister we're too late
00:56:46
at just 41 years old John Hill was dead1 years old 41 wow years old wow so following the the Declaration of a
00:56:55
mistrial more than a few people wondered whether John Hill was in danger now wow
00:57:00
Connie recalled countless nights of harassing phone calls she said that she would spot Ash driving back and forth
00:57:06
outside of their house late at night John's lawyer Richard Haynes had even suggested that John hire a bodyguard but
00:57:13
by that point JN didn't have the money to get one eventually what' you say sorry that's awful it is yeah eventually
00:57:20
after a few months the calls did slow down and eventually stopped and even Ash seemed to slow the frequency of his
00:57:26
alleged drive-bys which led Connie to believe that they were out of danger and things were finally settling down like
00:57:33
she had kind of said earlier like it seemed like people were finally chilling out but despite the relative calm few
00:57:39
people were all that surprised when the news of Jon's murder was reported in the
00:57:43
Press ID McMaster told a friend when that old boy signed that letter Ash Robinson wrote way back in December and
00:57:49
then reneged on it he signed his death warrant oh yeah others were like that's indictment right damn I know
00:57:59
others were less subtle or quiet about their opinions which honestly that wasn't that subtle I don't know if that
00:58:04
was about as subtle as a [ __ ] like iron slab falling on you not not very subtle no but I guess other people were
00:58:13
like a piano falling on you yeah so just one day after the murder Richard Haynes
00:58:17
told the Press he thought the robbery was a coverup and the slaying could have been an assassination with the
00:58:22
implication that Ash Robinson was behind John's murder so the first thing detectives did after searching the scene
00:58:29
was talk to Robert Hill according to the boy a man had shown up at the hill residence about a half hour before his
00:58:35
parents got home and forced his way inside after tying up Robert and his grandmother Myra The Man simply sat in
00:58:43
the house and waited for John and Connie to return okay Robert was in another room when he heard that the gun when he
00:58:51
heard the gunshots and by the by the time he managed to get out to where his father was the Intruder was gone I mean
00:58:57
that was that seems like that was the intention you wait for him to come oh kill him and then you leave it was 100%
00:59:04
that was the in that kind of proves the at least the part that this was clearly this wasn't like just a robbery
00:59:11
that John happened to be no involved in not at all no it would take a few more days before Jon's mother Myra could
00:59:17
speak I mean of course uh and also I mean one because of the emotional trauma but she had also been kicked in the
00:59:24
throat wrote by the killer oh my God yeah well that doesn't seem like it would be someone Ash Robinson not that I
00:59:31
believe that that was really it anyway but this doesn't seem like it would be connected to Ash Robinson having his own
00:59:37
wife kicked in the throat I feel like that wouldn't be that's not his wife it's John's mom oh John's mom I forgot
00:59:43
this was John's mom yeah but um yeah no that but that's also doesn't CU it's like having Robert TI I don't know it
00:59:53
just doesn't feel he loved Robert he loved Rob I feel like he would never put that kid in I don't know Ash I'm acting
00:59:59
like I know him I'm like I know him and I feel like from what I've heard here it
01:00:03
seems it seems so unlikely that somebody who loves their grandson that much and dots on them so much and cares about
01:00:10
them would put them through that kind of trauma even for their own gain you know
01:00:14
that I agree with that and I'm not saying that he did arrange this but just playing Devil's Advocate maybe he didn't
01:00:19
know that Robert was going to be home that's true or maybe he had if but he would kind of have to know if he knows
01:00:25
that they're on their their trip Where's Robert if they're not taking care of them then yeah you know I don't know
01:00:32
maybe he didn't want to know the details yeah I mean it's it's en I don't know that he it's all just this is very
01:00:39
confusing and poor Myra yeah geez the throat po poor everyone involved in this case what the tragedy just keeps
01:00:48
trickling down but when she was able to speak Myra told a nearly identical story
01:00:54
to what Robert police according to Myra they received a call at the house the night before from a man who said his
01:01:00
name was James gleon there was an urgent tone she said in his voice and he was very anxious to speak with John so Myra
01:01:07
said the hills would be returning the following evening and as soon as she said that the man hung up oh now
01:01:13
hindsight is 2020 but going forward don't ever tell anybody when your family members or when you are going to be home
01:01:18
or anything about your schedule yeah don't don't let people strangers know those things no the man called again and
01:01:24
then next after uh excuse me called again the next afternoon and again Myra said that they would be home that night
01:01:30
around 7:30 and the man hung and obviously she didn't know that this of course she didn't but at about 700 p.m.
01:01:38
that night the doorbell rang Robert got up to answered assuming it was his parents but when he opened the door he
01:01:43
found a large man standing before them wearing a hood and what appeared to Myra to be a wig which that just [ __ ]
01:01:50
creeps me out the man raised his gun and pointed it at them informing them that this was a robbery he then ordered them
01:01:56
into an adjacent room where they were tied up taped and just told to sat to sit down and wait about 20 minutes later
01:02:04
they heard the sound of a car pulling up inside the driveway and fearing that Robert or Myra might call out to John
01:02:11
the man kicked Robert in the side of the head 12-year-old boy and Myra in the throat and then left the room the [ __ ]
01:02:19
Myra told the detective she didn't recognize the man and he never said anything to indicate who he was was or
01:02:24
why he was there other than saying it was a robbery that's terrifying but he's sitting in the house waiting for them to
01:02:30
come home he's not going through anything he's just tying them up exactly what the [ __ ] so sensing the gravity of
01:02:38
the situation Dr Joseph yimi decided to handle the case himself on behalf of the
01:02:44
coroner's office he's like I'm already deep in this so so John had been shot it turned out three times with a 38
01:02:51
caliber revolver he'd been shot once in the wrist which which I'm assuming was like in a struggle a defense mhm once in
01:02:58
the right shoulder and the third shot was the Fatal one which was through the stomach and it severed his aorta oh yeah
01:03:05
oh the bleeding yeah Yim chck estimated that this is horrible John likely bled internally for 3 to 5 minutes before
01:03:14
dying from his wound so this was a unfortunately a slow death awful there were also deep scratches and abras
01:03:20
abrasions on his face and arms which the coroner interpret uh interpreted as a sign that Jon had put up a considerable
01:03:26
fight before sustaining the disabling shot yeah I mean your kid is in the house of course sure he was you're going
01:03:32
to fight yeah the detectives at the scene started operating from the position that Jon's death was simply a
01:03:38
robbery gone wrong I guess that's all they had at that point so how else are you you going to go about it and if you
01:03:45
start from there then maybe you can figure it out looking it very unbiasedly there so maybe that that's I think that
01:03:52
is the smart way instead of going in with a pre conceived notion of like something strange happened here right
01:03:57
and there were signs that maybe this was a robbery because his uh John's briefcase and wallet were missing and
01:04:03
the man who had killed him like we know said more than once that it was a robbery yeah but as far as anybody could
01:04:09
tell once they started kind of going through everything the killer hadn't even entered or seemed interested in the
01:04:15
rooms the other rooms in the house besides the one where the murders took or the murder excuse me took place which
01:04:22
obviously struck the investigators as strange because John and Connie's house was full of valuable items that would
01:04:28
have attracted the attention of a robber and again why are you waiting for the other people to come home you've already
01:04:35
subdued the grandmother and the child so now this would be your chance to go take
01:04:41
anything you want and get the [ __ ] out of there before somebody who's maybe more in the prime time to fight back
01:04:47
with you and especially home he got there at 7 she Myra had told him you know like my son who it seems like
01:04:54
or thiser this mystery and if if this is that was set up as a robbery and it is connected you'd have a half hour to get
01:05:02
all the [ __ ] you could get out out before they get home and not have to kill anybody so so yeah no there's no
01:05:09
way so other than that those couple things uh the scene was light on evidence and after 6 hours of searching
01:05:16
the premisis the most that the the detectives found were the rules of tape used to bind uh Robert and Myra one of
01:05:22
the fingers from the work gloves that the Intruder wore and the green hood that he had been wearing which turned
01:05:28
out to be a cheap green pillowcase with holes cut out so that he could see oh my
01:05:32
God ter like the strangers yes oh yes I hate that oh it freaks me oh God poor Robert and poor Myra like seeing that
01:05:41
and Connie to open your door to that oh my God I forgot that she just oh yeah oh
01:05:46
I hate something and that's out of a nightmare later when the evidence had been processed the detectives would be
01:05:54
disappointed to find that no fingerprints had been left anywhere of course mhm of course so
01:06:01
about a week later lead detective Jerry Carpenter got a call that some kids had found Jon's briefcase in some bushes a
01:06:07
few miles from the home when he arrived Carpenter was disappointed to find that all the children in the neighborhood had
01:06:14
heavily handled the briefcase kids but as he searched around the site for additional evidence he noticed what he
01:06:20
thought was a pipe covered in leaves and mud but as he started pulling out of the
01:06:24
dirt he realized it was not a pipe but a 38 revolver oh which is what John was shot with when the ballistics test
01:06:33
finally came back a few days later they confirmed that the revolver discovered in the lot with the briefcase was the
01:06:39
exact same one that had been used to kill John Hill only a few miles from the house they threw it in a bush yeah what
01:06:46
the [ __ ] yeah that's weird so detectives this is where [ __ ] is going to go it
01:06:52
goes even more Wy you couldn't make this you would watch this in a movie and be like they did a little too much here
01:06:58
like I I'm not following what I'm gonna do my best it's not that complicated but
01:07:03
it's just you're like wild so detectives trace the gun back to Dr Orin I believe
01:07:08
it's staves or staves what uh a Washington DC doctor he sheepishly informed detectives that he had indeed
01:07:15
purchased the gun while he was in Texas on business but that it had been stolen from him by a sex worker that he had
01:07:22
hired while he was a sleep and he said that this sex worker also stole one of his cars damn he couldn't remember much
01:07:30
about the woman but he said that she referred to herself by the name Dusty and he thought that her real name was
01:07:36
Marsha mctic okay Madrick using his former vice squad contacts Carpenter learned that there was indeed a sex
01:07:44
worker in Houston who did operate under the name Dusty and that she would likely
01:07:49
be found in the company excuse me in the company the comp the company it's a fancy company a company a company of her
01:07:56
boyfriend Bobby van diver and an older woman by the name of uh Lila paus what the [ __ ] is going on I told you it sh it
01:08:05
gets very very complicated so after months of dead ends and dried up leads the investigators finally managed to
01:08:12
track down all three of these people at Lila's home in Houston all were arrested
01:08:19
without incident on April 27th 1973 at first all three were very uncooperative with investigators they
01:08:26
all denied any involvement in the murder they refused to say anything else to detectives other than did your gun end
01:08:31
up there the a gun that you stole but things started to change when Myra and Robert Hill were brought into
01:08:39
the precinct for a lineup of the men standing on the other side of the glass only two looked Vaguely Familiar to
01:08:46
Robert but he couldn't be certain if either was the Intruder Myra on the other hand had absolutely no doubt about
01:08:53
about it after looking each person over carefully and listening to their voices she identified Bobby Bobby vaner as the
01:09:01
man who had broken into their home and attacked them whoa yeah it took a few uh days of contemplation and back and forth
01:09:10
with investigators before B uh Bobby finally accepted that there was likely not any way out of this situation and he
01:09:17
agreed to talk to Carpenter according to Bobby it was late in excuse me it was August 7 197 2 when Lila the older woman
01:09:26
who I I think they were just like friends with her yeah Lila started talking about a contract on someone's
01:09:31
life with a $5,000 payout shut the [ __ ] up ordinarily Bobby didn't do things like that he said but he was
01:09:38
particularly broke at the time and he told her that he'd think about it I love ordinarily I wouldn't ordinarily I
01:09:44
wouldn't be a hit wouldn't kill people for money but but I'm tough times you know Jesus Christ so a few days later
01:09:52
Lila called to say that somebody else had taken the job so forget it but then a few days after that she called again
01:09:59
and she said that had fallen through and Bobby it's still available if you want it he told the detective she told me
01:10:05
that the contract was on a doctor who had killed his wife and it was the wife's father who was wanting him dead
01:10:11
oh boy during his statement Bobby knew all the details of the case from the location of the Hill's house to their
01:10:19
schedules when Lila gave Bobby the photo of his Target it had been cut along the
01:10:23
corners into the shape of a coffin which she said had been done by Ash that is theatrical theatrical as [ __ ] Mara
01:10:32
helped gather the information and tracked the hills movements to make sure that everything would work out as
01:10:37
planned and Bobby's description of the night of the murders was nearly identical to what the investigators had
01:10:43
been told by Robert and Myra he told Carpenter I got the pillow case from Lila Po's
01:10:49
house what the [ __ ] this is so [ __ ] up it's unreal his account of the murder
01:10:55
not only matched the witness's statements but it also fit with the theory and the evidence collected at the
01:11:01
scene and from the body but the problem was while they believed what Bobby had told them their entire case was turning
01:11:08
into this in this gigantic conspiracy cuz now we're bringing Ash Robinson into it and saying he contracted these people
01:11:17
and now we have to prove that how do we prove that holy [ __ ] this just keeps turning this this is one of the most
01:11:23
twisty attorney cases that I have ever read is so the biggest challenge facing the district district attorney at that
01:11:30
point was according to Texas law a jury could not convict a person based solely on the testimony of their
01:11:37
accomplice that's to say Bobby might have confessed to the murder but in order to get additional convictions for
01:11:44
his girlfriend Marsha m u mckitrick and Lila paus and Ash Robinson they would all need to have corroborating testimony
01:11:52
oh [ __ ] but still still prosecutor Bob Bennett decided to bring the case before
01:11:56
a grand jury who indicted Bobby van diver and Marsha MC critic for first-degree murder and Lila paus uh as
01:12:03
an accomplice wow so while they waited for the trial date to come Bennett put Bobby Vander and his wife who was not
01:12:10
Marsha oh my go these men I know up in a motel where it was basically like a kind
01:12:17
of house arrest where Bobby agreed to stay in the motel unless given explicit permission to go anywhere else in June
01:12:24
of 1973 Bobby explained that his wife Vicki had been engaged in a bitter custody
01:12:30
battle with the father of her child and needed to travel to Dallas for a hearing
01:12:35
and he was seeking permission to accompany her and stay there for the duration of that trial so I just want to
01:12:41
get this straight Qui get um this his wife is trying to get custody of a child while married to a
01:12:50
man who admitted to just doing a contract killing yep or I don't know if she currently had custody don't give
01:12:59
them custody yeah don't give them custody I know this is long ago in the past but like hope that kid is okay
01:13:04
because the fact that he's like I would like to join her for that custody hearing it's like my guy I don't think
01:13:09
you should yeah I think that's actually going really I think that's going to be a strike against her yeah you would
01:13:14
think like it's like you are living in a motel right now because you have to because you just admitted to arrest
01:13:20
doing a contract killing kicking of grandma in the throat yeah and kicking a kid in the head and
01:13:28
murdering a man after murdering BR a man and you would have murdered Connie if she had not gotten out of the house
01:13:35
like no one's all right no one is okay no one's okay here no this is really wild I just can't my brain won't wrap
01:13:42
around any of these people's actions or thoughts so and when we say no one we mean um no one because given how
01:13:50
Cooperative Bobby had been to that point Bennett said yeah you can go travel to that custody uh hearing on the condition
01:13:57
that you check in with me regularly in return for your trial which is scheduled for September so you really meant no one
01:14:05
no I I straight up me no one no one no one's all right now you're you're going to be shocked to hear that months passed
01:14:13
and Bobby actually did seem to be following the rules laid out by bet is shocking which set the prosecutor's mind
01:14:18
at ease he even showed up for his trial in September just as he was expected to do but but upon his arrival he learned
01:14:25
that the trial would be delayed and was rescheduled for April 1974 uh unfortunately for Bennett when
01:14:32
the trial date finally did arrive Bobby was nowhere to be seen yeah maybe the reality of uh a first-degree murder
01:14:39
conviction was finally setting in or maybe he had just gotten tired of waiting around but whatever the case
01:14:44
after the trial was rescheduled Bobby decided not to return to Dallas and instead he and Vicky went on the Run
01:14:51
where they hopefully without that child I don't think the child was with them I actually cannot confirm that but I
01:14:57
really hope not I'm I'm gonna say for my own and for everybody's piece of behind
01:15:00
that no they were not and that child is an adult now and it's fine yeah totally fine uh they ended up settling in Long
01:15:06
View Texas under the name or he they both settled in Long View Texas and he underwent the name JC Sheridan wow he
01:15:13
took on an alias yeah as one of the smaller cities in Texas long View's law enforcement agencies had a tendency to
01:15:20
know and keep tags uh tabs on the local troublemakers so when officer John rmer noticed a new
01:15:26
car and two new faces hanging out at the local pool halls and bars this is so small town I love it so he made a point
01:15:32
of finding out who this new couple was he had good instincts and he prided himself on his ability to size people up
01:15:38
with reasonable accuracy I mean he's doing good so far he is this guy this is the end of this is truly a movie it is
01:15:46
it sounds ridiculous but it's real as soon as he saw quote unquote JC JC Sheridan he figured the guy was in town
01:15:53
for one of four reasons to sell drugs to look for an underworld contract pimping
01:15:59
or he was on the Run yeah after getting Sheridan's name rmer ran the man through
01:16:05
every database he could think of and he came up with nothing under the name JC Sheridan of course but still something
01:16:11
didn't seem right with this new guy in town so he was like I'm going to keep a close eye on this one good for you man
01:16:16
yeah instincts strangely enough Bobby's arrival in Long View did coincide with a
01:16:23
startling increase in barroom fights and fatalities around the area don't so weird uh and law enforcement officials
01:16:29
had been on high alert alert for any report I was reading alert and reports at the same time alert alert they've
01:16:36
been on high alert for any reports of bar fights or problems at drinking establishments and on the evening of May
01:16:43
11th John Ramer was punching out of work and he went down to the Continental where Vicki was working as a waitress at
01:16:49
the time he was just drinking his coffee and he heard a commotion on the other side of the room the noise turned out to
01:16:55
be coming from a drunk person just harmlessly ranting about something but as he scanned the rest of the room he
01:17:01
did lock eyes with uh JC Sheridan AKA Bobby who was playing pool they stared at one another briefly and then Bobby
01:17:11
gently set his queue down on the table and made a hasty exit toward the back door subtle yeah his quick exit uh only
01:17:19
made him more suspicious in raymer's eyes but things felt too tense in the bar that night so Raymer thought it was
01:17:24
best to just stick around and make sure things didn't get out of hand in the bar
01:17:28
and he was like I'm going to I'm going to table that character I'm I'm going to let that
01:17:34
just kind of settle marinate a little bit yeah just for now but a few days later he had gotten off of work and was
01:17:39
settling into bed at home when his phone rang the anonymous voice on the other end sounded young and slightly Gruff not
01:17:46
anybody he recognized the caller informed rmer that the man he'd been keeping an eye on in Long View was not
01:17:53
JC Sheridan but Bobby vver or vaner a man who had recently gone on the lamb to avoid first-degree murder wow yeah
01:18:01
murder trages excuse me Having learned this new information rer knew that he was not going to be able to sleep at
01:18:07
this point so he got back to the office and he called uh the mesk police to get a physical description of Bobby the his
01:18:14
contact at the M mes Police Department said they would get back to him with a photo identification by teletype
01:18:22
teletype teletype rather than wait for the image to reach him though rmer went out to patrol in the hopes that he might
01:18:28
find Bobby on the street somewhere rmer is like he's that one like chain smoking
01:18:33
in his his office he's the detective here like he's just I'm like all all right raver yeah all right he's got
01:18:40
instincts and they're they're right and he was right he was dead on dead on just
01:18:46
that's cool that is cool she just see some guy and be like I don't know like I'm sorry rber is like like m VP here
01:18:53
that's cool yeah and he's just not giving up either he's not like letting it go he's like something's up here
01:18:58
quintessential small town C like I like from a movie in Texas I love it he he lives in a saloon and I know it he lives
01:19:05
in a saloon his home house do exactly brain brain telepathy right there but so he's like yeah I'm going to go out and
01:19:14
find this [ __ ] he was just outside of the Continental when he got a radio communication asking him to
01:19:20
contact the contact the department so he found the nearest pay phone and he called the department and of course he
01:19:26
got the confirmation that JC Sheridan was Bobby and more importantly during an arrest for drunk driving in February
01:19:33
Bobby told the arresting officer quote he would kill the next officer who tried to arrest him wow so now raymer's like
01:19:40
[ __ ] [ __ ] now he knew that Bobby at this point was inside the continental and
01:19:46
under the circumstances though he called for backup and waited for them to arrive
01:19:50
before attempting the arrest rayar keep keeps getting better he's not going in there like an idiot he's like I just
01:19:57
heard straight up black and white I'm going to kill the next officer who tries to arrest me I'm not going to blow
01:20:02
myself in there no I'm going to get some backup like he's this man's taking all the right steps he is I'm impressed by
01:20:08
rmer I am too I hope I continue to be you will don't disappoint me okay I was like don't make him bad yeah so with a
01:20:16
plain clothes officer positioned outside the back door rmer entered the continental and approached the area with
01:20:22
the pool table of course when he called out Bobby's name Bobby Bobby looked up in surprise to see
01:20:30
that rmer was walking towards him with his gun drawn like [ __ ] you're under arrest I love that he called out
01:20:36
Bobby and Bobby looked up you know Instinct idot going to look up so with rmer standing directly in front of him
01:20:42
the two men stared at one another for a few seconds and then Bobby reached for the gun in raymer's hand attempting to
01:20:49
push it aside while then reaching for his own gun with the the other hand damn so instinctively rmer fired but Bobby's
01:20:56
hand had pushed the gun down and the bullet ricocheted off the floor and lodged in the ceiling damn however the
01:21:03
heat from the discharge made the barrel of the gun really hot which made Bobby let go and that gave rmer the
01:21:09
opportunity to get him down what an intense takedown this is a shootout so rmer fired a second shot this time
01:21:16
directly into Bobby's chest at Point Blake range cuz he's he was about to shoot him he was he was reaching for you
01:21:23
got to do that yeah uh and he this this shot tore a huge hole in Bob's body Bobby grabbed desperately at rmer and
01:21:33
dragged him to the floor with him Vicky ran over to her husband in Terror pushing rmer and the other officer aside
01:21:39
but by the time she had Bobby's head in her hands he was already dead holy [ __ ]
01:21:44
so he died so oh now with Bobby vanand dead vver dead Bob Bennett's case against those involved in Hills John
01:21:53
Hills murder was in Peril yeah I was just going to say that [ __ ] everything up though it did [ __ ] everything up
01:21:59
which you can't be disappointed in rayer because he didn't really have another option there like I mean that's that was
01:22:05
a situation of killer be killed wow yeah so damn but it [ __ ] this up yeah it [ __ ] this up yeah Marsha MC critic's
01:22:14
lawyer argued that uh excuse me mckitrick lawyer argued that since Bobby was dead and couldn't Testify the
01:22:20
prosecutor was in danger of viola Marsha's Sixth Amendment right to face her accuser I cuz Bobby accused her being
01:22:29
involved yeah but the the way that like multiple trials in this case just get [ __ ] by like the most details like
01:22:38
yeah and just like tiny little loopholes yeah so the judge shot down the the lawyer movement to dismiss the case but
01:22:46
Bennett knew the lawyer had a point so rather at this point than risk a mistrial or an acquittal Bennett it
01:22:52
actually stuck a deal struck a deal with Mara to plead no contest and accept the
01:22:57
guilt as an accomplice in Hill's murder particularly as the driver of the car okay as a result of her plea Marsha was
01:23:05
given a sentence of 10 years in prison and was paroled after 5 years so she took the deal damn mhm now Lila paus
01:23:13
went to trial in February of 1975 on a charge of being an accomplice to murder as part of her plea deal Marsha had
01:23:20
testified against Lilla though she only did so after her immunity was granted of
01:23:25
course she told the court that Lilla had been paid $225,000 by Ash Robinson to arrange the
01:23:31
murder of his former son-in-law and 5,000 of that was what she offered Bobby to actually do the killing which I was
01:23:37
like whoa you only got 5,000 of the $25,000 and you're doing the the hit like that's a bad deal it's a bad deal
01:23:46
no matter what cuz you're murdering someone but yeah in the end Lila polis's trial was lengthy and involved many of
01:23:52
the Hills closest friends and Associates but the link between Lila and Ash was tenuous at best really as expected when
01:24:00
he was called To The Stand Ash of course strongly denied playing any role in Jon's death and told the court I didn't
01:24:06
want him dead his killing didn't solve any problems of mine I mean which like he makes a valid point what
01:24:14
what yeah like I'm we I want what it sounds like what he wants is I want him put behind bars he's like my whole
01:24:21
Pursuit here was Justice yeah that just ends it now it's over I mean I guess it depends on his definition of justice
01:24:27
exactly and it depends on if he was willing to he just wanted it over right and this was the closest thing to
01:24:33
Justice which again who knows not me now little I really wanted to believe and I
01:24:40
still want to believe that Ash didn't have anything to do with this you'll never really know we'll never know but I
01:24:45
really I really just want to believe he didn't I know well Lila paulus tried everything she could think of to put
01:24:51
distance between herself in the murder including telling the jury that Jerry Carpenter had manipulated her into
01:24:57
implicating Ash Jesus saying that she would get immunity if she accused Ash OH the plot thickens but in the end the
01:25:04
jury believed the prosecutor and sentenced Lila to 35 years in prison the sentence was overturned on appeal in
01:25:11
1981 but it was actually then reinstated by the criminal court the next year and
01:25:17
unfortunately if she was innocent Lila paus died from breast cancer in prison in 1986 wow very complicated in 1977
01:25:27
Connie Hill filed a $7.6 million civil suit against Ash Robinson alleging that he had colluded with paus to have Jon
01:25:34
murdered uh in court Myra Hill told the jury that Ash had been obsessed with Jon
01:25:40
ever since Joan's death and was quote unquote fishlyn towards her son in his defense Ash told the journey uh the jury
01:25:48
this has been a journey it has he told the jury I did want him prosecuted and if he was guilty then convicted and
01:25:54
pushed for it punished for it but there was no intention Any Which Way in the world of killing him or having him
01:26:01
killed okay so he's like I didn't do it yeah uh in the end the jury ruled 10 to2
01:26:06
against the hills stating that while he may have been responsible for a certain amount in emotional damages quote Mr
01:26:13
Robinson was not guilty of the conspiracy charge and he could not be forced to pay for what had already for
01:26:19
what he had already been cleared of by a higher Court Dam D now in 1980 CBS News
01:26:25
aired a segment on the case alleging that it was very possible Joan Robinson Hill had died from a newly discovered
01:26:31
medical condition known as toxic shock oh yes first identified in the late '70s toxic shock syndrome scariest thing ever
01:26:41
scariest thing ever especially as a woman because it was first identified in the late '70s and associated with tampon
01:26:47
use Toxic Shock Syndrome causes many of the symptoms Joan experienced right before before her death and would have
01:26:53
explained the rapid on rapid onset and quick deterioration wow and as it hadn't been established in the medical
01:27:01
community at that point in time it also could have accounted for the multiple conflicting causes of death CU nobody
01:27:07
could pinpoint it because they didn't know a lot about it and at this point we'll never know because everything has
01:27:13
been so compromised at this point wow well now when the news of the new new Theory broke John's former lawyer
01:27:19
Richard Haynes told reporters I'm not a doctor but I'm satisfied in my own mind that Joan Robinson Hill met her death
01:27:26
unkindly as it was as a consequence of what we now know to be toxic shock wow which he can't say that definitively no
01:27:35
of course not Poss saying that that's what makes him sleep at night he's saying that's what makes him sleep at
01:27:39
night exactly that's the perfect way to put it but still we don't know that very
01:27:45
well could be it but there was a point in time where it very well could have been hepatitis and then everybody was
01:27:50
like no there's no way it's hepatitis could have beenal in there no way it infe so we'll never know
01:27:59
unun but after the end of all the trials Ash and rehea Robinson relocated to Florida where they lived out the rest of
01:28:05
their lives in 1981 after years of bitterness Robert Hill reconciled with his grandparents
01:28:13
and maintained a good relationship with them until their deaths good for him and
01:28:16
Ash Robinson died of natural causes in February 1986 at the age of 87 wow and that is the wildly complicated case of
01:28:27
the death of Joan Robinson Hill and the murder of John Hill I am the Away by that at the end of
01:28:38
it you don't even know what to believe in either case I no idea what happened anywhere in that case cuz it's like no
01:28:44
idea I I don't know if Ash hired somebody or not but like why would somebody else just ran randomly kill
01:28:54
John other than um I can't like um I don't know what cuz also it's like what what happened with an I know sounds like
01:29:03
there was a lot of [ __ ] going on there and it's like was any of that true but then it sounds like Connie was very
01:29:10
happy in her relationship with John sometimes that sometimes that happens that happens we'll never [ __ ] know cuz
01:29:18
it's like it's not like he was without enemies I mean look at an is is an enemy of his and might have
01:29:26
some people around her who are not happy with John or how she was claiming to beated that's a good point you know what
01:29:32
I didn't think that's a whole other and again I'm not saying she did anything or
01:29:35
like she hired anybody or knows anybody that hired anything yeah just just saying that it the buck doesn't stop
01:29:43
with Ash Robinson there as the only person who could have possibly been this angry with John Hill very good point I
01:29:50
didn't even think of that Avenue so it's like there's also I mean like you can see it he made enemies within the within
01:29:58
the uh the like the doctors the medical field sorry this case has been so long I'm like I can't think uh within the
01:30:06
medical field because I'm sure some people believed that he had killed his wife and others and didn't he have some
01:30:11
malpractice he had that one malpractice thing it was so long ago at long so there was that but it's just to say that
01:30:18
like there was some stuff and like obvously the ash Robinson thing like there's some pieces that you can sit
01:30:25
there and put together and go well yeah that makes a lot of sense but yeah some other stuff could make sense too which
01:30:30
is unfortunate yeah either way it sounds like this everybody just what a complicated awful tragic in
01:30:40
every way conceivable story truly and I wow really think that's the perfect sign
01:30:45
off for so Tru with that being said we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it wee
01:30:52
weird oh but I don't I don't even know where to go with that slightly this weird yeah don't even don't even think
01:30:59
about it do you know that yeah don't love you [Music] bye