00:00:00
hey weirdos I'm Elena and I'm Ash and this is morbid yeah you had like a stoner Vibe
00:00:22
about that the way you said more bad I'm in a different Universe right now tell the people let it out put it all in the
00:00:29
book this all goes in order actually cuz the last time we talked to you guys was
00:00:36
yesterday when um my ceiling flooded oh yeah we y all the the alarms in my house
00:00:44
went off because it flooded into the smoke detector and other parts so it set the detectors off so that was yesterday
00:00:51
that was wild that was yester and then in the middle of the night last night because all the water had flooded into
00:00:56
one of those smoke detectors at uh 3:00 a.m. the witching hour the alarm started
00:01:02
blaring in my house and a nice robotic voice was saying fire fire fire and my and I shot up out of bed and I said oh
00:01:14
my God and my kids ran down the hallway to us crying cuz they didn't know what was going on that's and John's running
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downstairs where just like everybody's it's chaotic it's Mayhem he discovers that it is that that it's like a false
00:01:29
alarm so we try to get everybody back to sleep but everybody's all wound up and terrified my littlest one was like
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sobbing it was awful one of my twins is trying to tell my littlest one like it's
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okay we have fire drills in school it was so cute like cute it's cute now at the time I was like this is chaos yeah
00:01:47
but so we finally get everybody kind of settled and then within 10 minutes it blares again and it does that another
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four times back to back within 10 minutes each or like 5 minutes sometimes till finally he was able to like clean
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it out disconnect that one and he was like finally get it so that it wasn't going to trigger again right but by that
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point it had been over an hour of all of us being shot up and not going back to sleep and the kids being upset me being
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Str like it was just all a mess so it was chaos like the youngest one didn't want to go to sleep so John was trying
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to sleep like on the end of her bed to Cal her down and that's too tiny for John one of my twins was like is
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everything cool and I was like yeah and she was like see you and just went to sleep the other one was like can I come
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in bed with you and I was like sure and so it it was chaos last dogs had no [ __ ] clue
00:02:47
what was going on so they're just like what have you done I know and think of how loud that was to them loud it was
00:02:53
and you could they were like what is going on it's loud to us but it's like so high pitched in their poor little
00:02:59
ears also in full like they've officially reached the point where they're like full protect family mode
00:03:06
when something happens so they if they see people upset they like lose it they're like barking and so they're like
00:03:12
losing their minds being like who's [ __ ] with you guys like they're just like let me out of here like just so let
00:03:19
me out let me out them which was like beautiful for them I love them they're wonderful and I'm glad they do that but
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at the time I was like this is this is a nightmare this is a nightmare so today I'm just a zomie okay um it's like
00:03:34
Halloween all over again yeah I'm just you know I'm living that right now I don't know how much sleep we got because
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also it was so like off and on and also sorry I'm like telling you my whole life
00:03:44
story right now but I'm so tired it's going to be a rambling Rose moment but I don't think that's like your whole life
00:03:51
story also one of my twins lost a tooth at school yesterday so the Tooth Fairy came just you know in the middle of all
00:04:00
in the middle of all that she still to do it which can can be very stressful for the Tooth Fairy as well yeah you
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know so so that was added on to it luckily the Tooth Fairy did come and it was great because the Tooth Fairy never
00:04:12
misses you know damn she really does be working OT she does so job Tooth Fairy shout out to the Tooth Fairy shout out
00:04:20
to the Tooth Fairy the Tooth Fairy now has to answer the children's letters that they write her when they lose te
00:04:25
now that they can write and they're like what's your favorite food on Thanksgiving
00:04:33
Thanksgiving in fact one time it was um the last one I promise I'll be done after this you're like the last the last
00:04:40
letter that they wrote to the Tooth Fairy they asked what she wanted to be for Halloween and the Tooth Fairy
00:04:45
answered a stack of pancakes I hope that's what she was I like that she told them her
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favorite swad on Thanksgiving is um his mashed potatoes because of the color teeth that's so creepy why did the Tooth
00:05:02
Fairy say that the Tooth Fairy was up late so she's a that's her favorite fla but yeah
00:05:10
that's where I'm at today so I'm really glad that how she was telling you the story because I don't know what kind of
00:05:16
rocket ship I would take us all on today so I watched some Gaba goul last night and then I watched some Southern Charm
00:05:23
and then I fell asleep at a normal hour I'm sorry but I slept like for [ __ ] baby well okay the night before though I
00:05:30
was up all night because of my freaking cats cat jiggling the door all night like let me in let me in I'm like I'm
00:05:36
not letting you in here because you're going to go crazy and you're going to shove everything off my nightstand at
00:05:41
all hours of the night so no I'm I'm not doing it no and then last night they were on their best behavior good for
00:05:47
those cats my cats my cats my cats well I I wish that I had like a uplifting story for you a story of Justice or you
00:05:57
know like something spooky to make you LOL but I don't oh I have a pretty tragic case um the woman at the center
00:06:05
of this case is a cool lady though like reading about her and learning more about I mean her life is very tragic but
00:06:13
learning about who she was and kind of like what was important to her I was like this lady I want to be friends with
00:06:19
like I'm into it and it's a bit of an oldie it's um it's like but a goodie 2030s but it's really really interesting
00:06:27
and I hope you like it so this one's for you this one's for me yeah I don't know
00:06:32
I'm just I felt like I was introducing a song at a concert so it just felt right
00:06:37
to say this one's for you so hey co-host this one's for you so yeah this one's for you Elina
00:06:45
despite the extensive coverage of her murder and the trial that followed there's not a ton of information out
00:06:51
there about Mimi Thurman's life and that's who we're going to be talking about today M Thurman okay uh but what
00:06:56
we do know is that she was born M Morrison on September 12th 1900 to George and olly Morrison of Kentucky and
00:07:04
also the name of Olly is so cute that is really cute and usually you hear it for
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a boy but I think for a woman or a girl it's so pretty yeah but unfortunately in
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late January of 1901 when M was just four months old olly ended up passing away leaving m in the sole care of her
00:07:21
father oh damn so she never really knew her mother and despite suffering such an
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early and tragic loss may she grew up to be a really happy intelligent girl she was charismatic she was confident she
00:07:32
was outgoing she had everything going for her author F uh Keith Davis wrote with a bubbly and outgoing personality
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she knew few strangers like just wanted to be friends with everybody would talk to whoever yeah and as she got older she
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carried that confidence and friendly nature into adulthood she enthus embraced the fashion of the early 20th
00:07:54
century she dressed in like tight fitting clothes she loved a little low neckline to show show the girls off got
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a girl she accessorized with like really beautiful eye-catching jewelry and while
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most adults at the time discourage such quote unquote provocative attire Mimi loved colorful glamorous clothing she
00:08:14
loved outrageous hats head wraps the turbin they would wear hell yeah she was a fashion gly it wasn't just the fashion
00:08:21
that M loved it was all the latest cultural Trends uh being what her half brother George Jr described as a flapper
00:08:29
which is like my faith fler flapper she completely embraced the suffet movement for emancipation of women and she really
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reject rejected the conservative modesty of the previous generation she was like
00:08:42
going out there on her own going to do the damn thing in style she like tits out everyone yeah chin up titties up
00:08:50
let's go yeah let's go and honestly which is another thing I really love about her she kind of just leaned into
00:08:57
the shocked responses that she would get from people people cuz remember she's from a small town in Kentucky so people
00:09:03
didn't necessarily appreciate her bold outfits or you know gorgeously applied mug but you know what what PE other
00:09:08
people think of you is none of your business Rupa so but more than anything M loved the budding jazz styles emerging
00:09:15
in places like New York Chicago New Orleans and they that kind of music usually went along with crazy like new
00:09:22
styles of dance where people were like OMG are you summoning the devil over there obviously and may was like [ __ ] I
00:09:28
might be basically she was just a cool chick way ahead of her time sounds like it I love
00:09:34
her now in 1924 she met and married Jack Thurman he was a construction worker from Brads
00:09:41
Bradford I can say it you can do it I have faith in you bradfordsville Kentucky but pretty shortly after they
00:09:48
got married M and Jack moved from Kentucky to Logan West Virginia a little over 4 hours away now Logan was really
00:09:55
just as rural as bradfordsville but it had more opportunity and Jack was able to find construction
00:10:01
work pretty quickly actually mostly thank to thanks to M's father her dad had also worked in construction and he
00:10:08
worked a lot in that area so he put in a good word for his son-in-law and then meanwhile M started taking secretarial
00:10:15
classes at the local high school and when she had wrapped up her coursework she was able to get a really good job as
00:10:20
a secretary at a local car car dealership cool now moving from Kentucky to West Virginia it did put a lot of
00:10:28
distance like I just said it was a 4-Hour move so put a lot of distance between M and her family but she made a
00:10:34
point to go back as often as she could to visit her dad by then he had actually gotten remarried and started a family
00:10:41
with his second wife but he and M stayed close and she was close to the his whole
00:10:45
family there she was a lot older than his youngest kids but they also were super close like I just said her half
00:10:52
brother George later said at first I thought she was my aunt M my father's sister not his daughter it wasn't until
00:10:59
many years later that I discovered she was my sister whoa cuz there was just such an age difference yeah and despite
00:11:06
the years between them George completely adored M he told a reporter I thought M
00:11:12
was the most beautiful woman in the world that is so sweet like your brother just thinks you're the most Gorge I love
00:11:18
that and it wasn't just her younger brother and her dad that Mimi was close to she also was really really close to
00:11:24
her stepmom because they had a ton in common and they actually considered each other close friends until M's death wow
00:11:32
in fact George George senior M's father and his second wife they had a pretty difficult marriage and they actually
00:11:38
separated on a number of occasions but M would tell her dad exactly what she thought he had done wrong and more often
00:11:45
than not she'd side with her stepmom oh my God that's really funny cuz they were
00:11:49
closer in age too so she was like you're kind of [ __ ] my friend over here she's like I kind of get this so yeah
00:11:55
now when George senior unexpectedly died in 1928 Mimi actually helped her stepmom
00:12:00
move into a one room quote unquote No Frills apartment at the Pioneer Hotel in Logan and she kept visiting her and
00:12:07
hanging out with her as often as she could oh my God yeah and like I said that's really sweet it is and like I
00:12:13
said they were pretty close in age so they actually would like go out with each other at night you know
00:12:18
occasionally in the company of other men oh may may had a little fun on the side
00:12:23
yeah apparently yeah and you know her stepmom could because her dad had passed away but yeah she's a widow exactly but
00:12:30
a few years after moving to West Virginia Jack ended up joining Jack as M's husband he ended up joining the
00:12:35
local police force and M was able to get a better job working as a secretary at one of the largest banks in town and
00:12:43
that was where she became acquainted with some of the most influential men in Logan and then sometimes she'd get more
00:12:49
than acquainted oh yep one resident of the Town said of her that M sure was a high stepper she was a welln she was
00:12:56
well-known and a very fine looking lady um imagine being described as a high stepper and a very fine looking lady I
00:13:05
mean let's go what a what a legend what a legend that's the thing Legacy is what
00:13:11
I meant but Legend works too what did you say I said a legend to leave I meant a legacy oh oh uh but you know it all
00:13:20
it's in the same word family so it's fine yeah High you guys know what I mean a high stepper was like a nice thing to
00:13:29
say kind of but also like I think it depends on how you interpret it ex for yourself it kind of means that you're
00:13:36
like leading a wild and fast life yes exactly but so I think it's like if you're fine with that then you're like
00:13:41
hell yeah I'm a high stepper and I kind of think May was cuz like I said she leaned into this whole thing I think she
00:13:46
would have been like yeah that's me but some people would be like oh [ __ ] exact
00:13:50
I'm getting I'm getting a reputation for being a high stepper exactly but he also
00:13:55
said a fine looking lady I mean hell yeah I'd be Focus focused on that personally but the thing was while most
00:14:02
people really publicly knew M as a respectable quote unquote woman of quiet demeanor a devoted wife a faithful
00:14:09
congregant and regular attendee of the services at church behind closed doors people knew a little bit more and talked
00:14:17
a little bit more about her and rumors were starting to spread she may have been all of those things all of those
00:14:23
great things but people also said that she was promiscuous and she often went out alone and she danced with men at
00:14:30
Speak eases O and you know she had a tendency to drink too much at a time when literally all forms of liquor were
00:14:37
still illegal damn so she was dabbling in some I was just going to say she's really dabbling in the uh almost in like
00:14:45
the 20s underworlds kind of exactly like the 20s underworld like it feels like in
00:14:50
in Mulan Rouge how like that whole world was like yes this like wild underworld of folks everywhere you know like in
00:14:59
different kind of it's so funny that you said Mulan Rouge because the entire time
00:15:03
I was doing this case I was thinking of that movie yeah cuz I think they kind of
00:15:07
like say like they're creatures of the underworld like this you know what I mean they or they like you know kind of
00:15:12
hint at it yeah that's that's what it feels like to me this like cool just like Society a little reckless like you
00:15:21
know that it's cool I you know I love a good time yeah we're far removed from it
00:15:26
so it's cool for us now exactly back and be like that looks cool and it was but it was also somewhat dangerous to dabble
00:15:34
in those things back then and especially not only just like for your safety but for your reputation and remember her
00:15:41
husband is a police officer now so exactly you know so she's really rolling the dice here that's the thing but we
00:15:47
all know that multiple things even contradictory things can all be true at once she was like a really good wife she
00:15:54
was you know devoted in her own way she went to church but she also dabbled in those underground things she had many
00:16:02
facets yeah she was that's the thing she was multifaceted yeah but she also was a
00:16:07
young woman in her late 20s remember who wanted more for her life than just small
00:16:11
town Logan had to offer yeah and it actually you know it wasn't that she and Jack were poor they weren't struggling
00:16:17
to get by by any means but M had an appreciation for those Finer Things in life and she and Jack weren't
00:16:23
necessarily bringing in the kind of money to make those things a constant yeah so in the meantime she did her her
00:16:29
best to manifest these things okay F Keith Davis wrote M was determined to go after opportunities and pursuit of this
00:16:36
endeavor she spent much of her free time with friends in affluent neighborhoods within City Limits all right so you know
00:16:42
she's trying to rub shoulders with the right people to make a better life she's networking
00:16:47
exactly but rumors and moral judgment judgment aside it is true that even though she was married she did see other
00:16:54
men her half brother recalled I remember M coming over to visit mom who stayed at
00:16:59
the Pioneer Hotel I remember men coming in and going out of our room at all times of the day and night o so it's it
00:17:06
also reminds me of like Gatsby a little bit it's very much like that that one scene where they had the hotel party
00:17:11
with yes oh remind that very stressful now it's unknown exactly how many extramarital relationships M had but
00:17:20
most sources cite that her relationship with Harry Robertson was the most long running and most significant
00:17:26
relationship that she had aside from her husband Jack so Harry was the son of Logan County's former sheriff and he was
00:17:33
really well known in the community because he worked at the I think it's Guion Valley Bank and that was the the
00:17:39
bank that Mimi worked at but it was one of the other biggest banks in town okay cuz I was like it was one of the biggest
00:17:44
banks in town before this was the other one there's so many big Banks there's so
00:17:47
many big Banks and most people considered Harry to be a decent family man he married his wife Louise in 1914
00:17:54
in nearby Huntington and after they got married they moved in settled in Logan Harry went to work at the bank and 10
00:18:01
years later they'd had two children they were living in a large three-bedroom House near the center of town they they
00:18:07
had a beautiful life get it guys and to offset the cost of you know living they rented out part of their property to
00:18:13
borders okay you know Liv TOS at the cost of you know existing I feel everybody feels that right now they're
00:18:19
like I heard that exactly so when Guion Valley Bank I think I think I said it a different way this time but whatever I
00:18:27
love the variety yeah that's what I'm here to offer the spice of life when gion Valley Bank merged with Logan First
00:18:34
National Bank which is where M worked Harry kept his position as head bookkeeper at the new institution and
00:18:40
that is when he became acquainted with M who like I said worked as a secretary for Logan First National Bank ah so
00:18:48
because those Bank those Banks merged it made M and Harry co-workers now they already knew each other
00:18:55
casually but I think they got to know each other a little bit better here if you pick up what I'm putting down
00:19:01
carnally yes in fact it was actually Harry who was largely responsible for Jack Thurman M's husband becoming a
00:19:09
police officer because Harry used his status in the community to advocate for Jack and around the late 1920s an
00:19:16
article in the local paper the Logan Banner referred to Jack as Harry's quote own favorite appointy of the city police
00:19:23
force damn messy messy just going to say this is a messy it only gets Messier now
00:19:30
it's not really clear if Jack knew that his friend Harry eventually uh ended up romantically and sexually involved with
00:19:38
his wife but it's hard to believe that he had no idea M was being unfaithful before M and Harry had become involved M
00:19:46
was known to spend a lot of time at Le societ de Amore aka the Amore Club the Amore Club the The Love Club The Love
00:19:56
Club exactly The Love Club club The Love Club wow it was a local social club with
00:20:02
um a questionable reputation for love during prohibition the Amore Club was what was known back then as a key club
00:20:09
and that meant that patrons had to provide proof of membership and give a password before being allowed inside oh
00:20:15
damn to drink and dance and gamble it was a Speak Easy I think the original like Playboy clubs were like that too
00:20:23
it's like a key Club yeah they did for some reason I remember reading that somewhere that's the only time I've
00:20:27
heard it um that was also mentioned in secrets of Playboy I think they had like cards special cards um so yeah it like I
00:20:34
said it was like a Speak Easy but the club also gained a reputation as quote a secret nightclub for both married and
00:20:41
single adults a Haven for Unfaithful and unsavory husbands and wives looking for
00:20:46
a good time where there was a reasonable amount of confidentiality we have discretion here
00:20:52
in in high Supply so it's like a sexy nighttime gambling dancing drinking cheating on your wife in husband Club I
00:21:00
was just GNA say it's just like hey come cheat it's a sexy Club it's a sexy place
00:21:06
okay yeah with sexy people worry about it so F Keith Davis who wrote The Secret Life and brutal death of M Thurman
00:21:13
spoiler alert oh points out that since M was a new employee of the bank it would
00:21:17
have been Harry's job to train her and the relationship you know probably started as an innocent friendship he
00:21:23
wrote conceivably their first conversation on the job led to occasional dinner dates away from the
00:21:28
bank and then from there developed into very romantic Rendevous when Jack was on
00:21:33
duty yeah and at the time Jack and M were actually living in an apartment above the Robertson's garage Harry and
00:21:44
his wife are the Robertson so it was easier to carry out their relationship and more private than it might have been
00:21:52
otherwise what yeah they were renting an apartment from the Roberts and they lived above their
00:22:00
garage damn yeah damn mhm so that's not good and like and it like I said it made it easier than it
00:22:10
might have been otherwise for example their relationship might have petered out when M was laid off from her
00:22:15
position at the bank in the fall of 1931 but being in close proximity her and Harry continued to see each other so
00:22:23
it it did not Peter out cuz yeah it just kept going mhm so now we're going to fast forward a little bit to when
00:22:30
because like I said there's just not a ton known about her life like I gave you as much as I could yeah that was good
00:22:36
amount okay I'm glad yeah I think you know I feel like I I I know who she is yeah Dave did a really good job of
00:22:41
digging too and getting more but so let's flash forward to when Mimi is discovered it is very brutal I just want
00:22:48
to give you a heads up it's intense so at about 2 p.m. on June 22nd 1932 Garland Davis a young Berry picker he
00:22:57
was making making his way through the thickets around uh Trace mountain in Logan when he stumbled upon a body the
00:23:04
woman's face had been very very severely beaten to the point that she was almost
00:23:09
unrecognizable oh God so Garland immediately ran to get police who rushed to the scene and started combing the
00:23:15
site for evidence and eventually as we know the body would be identified as M Thurman she had last been seen 2 days
00:23:23
earlier on the evening of uh Tuesday June 21st when she ran into an acquaintance at a store in downtown
00:23:29
Logan but she'd been missing since then and upon first glance it was obvious to investigators even though a knife was
00:23:36
found in the area where the body was discovered it was obvious to them that M had been killed somewhere else and then
00:23:42
dumped in a ditch near the Brier patch oh okay one of the most obvious indications of her being killed
00:23:48
somewhere else was the lack of blood at the scene that was like immediately one of the things they noticed and they also
00:23:54
discovered M's hat about 30 feet from her body and they noted that a bullet hole had ripped through one side of her
00:24:01
hat wow yep about eight feet in the other direction one shoe was discovered and the match appeared to be missing
00:24:09
which they took as further evidence that quote she had been slain at another point and her body taken to the top of
00:24:14
the mountain to be hidden she lost the shoe somehow the way in the journey I don't think they ever found it now M's
00:24:21
purse was also located near her body and her cash and other belongings were still
00:24:25
inside so this wasn't robbery because she also had rings and other jewelry still on her body so they quickly ruled
00:24:32
that out as a motive uh investigators had discovered tire tracks as well at the scene indicating that somebody had
00:24:39
driven up to the dump site and turned around but other than that there was little evidence at the scene to point
00:24:45
toward a suspect or a motive huh so they're like what the hell is going on here yeah but whoever did this was a
00:24:51
[ __ ] monster and they had brutalized her according to court documents and this is where gets really intense if you
00:24:58
want to skip forward a little bit her neck had been broken her throat was cut from one end to the other and she'd been
00:25:06
shot in the head twice oh my god with what uh investigators believed was a 38 caliber revolver that seems like so much
00:25:15
Overkill it is absolutely those are three methods of killing someone in my opinion at least somebody was very very
00:25:21
angry with her and during the coroner's inquest the following day it was stated this is interesting it was stated that
00:25:28
the cause of death was the knife wound to the throat which had severed the trachea the coted artery and the jugular
00:25:35
vein and they thought Mimi had been shot twice to make sure she was definitely dead but this would later be amended
00:25:43
after uh review where they determined that the actual cause of death was the two bullet wounds in the head wow and
00:25:49
they said her death was instantaneous and the broken neck and wound to the throat occurred
00:25:55
postmortem my God I'm surprised they were even able especially back then to determine from the three of them cuz I
00:26:01
also wonder if this person was trying to confuse the cause of death I wonder cuz
00:26:05
those are three specific causes of death like right that's the thing those aren't
00:26:09
just injuries like slicing someone's throat is trying to kill them yeah shooting them in the head trying to kill
00:26:14
them bre their neck trying kill them yep that's the thing I think they maybe could have been trying to P them off
00:26:20
here and according to the medical examiner quote one bullet entered behind the left ear and ranging upward emerged
00:26:27
Ed an inch and a half above the right ear the other entering on the left side of the forehead made its exit at the
00:26:33
back of her head there were powder Burns over the face and in the wound at the rear of the left ear death resulted
00:26:40
instantly from the gunshot wounds before the throat was cut wow so intense that's
00:26:45
really intense it's insane what that what was done to her now despite the lack of evidence or other information to
00:26:51
inform the case police wasted no time in identifying Harry Robertson as their primary suspect and he was arrested in
00:26:59
his home in Logan at about 8:30 p.m. that very same night huh the arrest was almost based entirely on their rumored
00:27:06
relationship and when he was questioned he more or less confirmed that they did have an extra marital affair with each
00:27:13
other but he minimized the extent of it of course according to Harry he had quote quote he had several dates with
00:27:20
Miss Thurman but said that he had seen Miss Thurman only a few times within the last several months and he said the last
00:27:26
time he saw her was the previous Saturday June 18th okay later it will come out that that was a lie oh no now
00:27:33
Harry was not the only one arrested at the Robertson residence in connection with the murder Clarence Stevenson a
00:27:40
28-year-old black handyman had been living in the Robertson home for the last five months and based on his
00:27:46
statement given at the time of arrest investigators believed Stevenson quote was a go between for Robertson and Miss
00:27:53
Thurman in arranging details of meetings and then that was also corob operated by
00:27:58
Harry Robertson okay now Clarence wasn't technically employed by the Robertson but he lived at their house on and off
00:28:05
for the last two years and he'd do odd jobs he would take care of their hunting dogs in exchange for the accommodation
00:28:11
of you know room and board now according to Harry both he and Clarence were home
00:28:16
all evening the night that Mimi disappeared and Harry said he went to bed around 11: okay now rumor and
00:28:23
inuendo might have led the police to Harry Robertson's home but once they were there they knew they were in the
00:28:29
right place oh a preliminary search of the residents turned up evidence they say pointed to Harry Robertson and or
00:28:37
Clarence Stevenson as the killer oh damn during a search of Harry's car investigators found what they believed
00:28:42
to be blood stains under the floor coverings and in the basement of the home they found quote stains believed to
00:28:49
be caused by Blood and a depression in the brick wall of the basement that officer said might have been caused by a
00:28:55
bullet wow so this is just like yeah it's just like you're basically with a smok it is like
00:29:02
literally and based on the evidence collected Harry Robertson his wife and actually another border at the house
00:29:08
were taken into custody the three of them were held at the prosecutor's office and Clarence Stevenson was also
00:29:15
arrested but on the other hand he was quote secretly removed to a jail in Williamson as a prote a precaution
00:29:21
against mob violence because he's the only black man who was arrested out of these four people and they're
00:29:29
worried for obvious that time period especially in that time period and please remember where we are we're in
00:29:35
the South oh yes in Kentucky absolutely so really really bad things could have happened to him absolutely now not only
00:29:42
did the murder call attention to M's affair with Harry Robertson but it also shined a very unwelcome light on the
00:29:49
Amore Club where she was said to be a frequent flyer just days after the murder the Press started putting out
00:29:55
stories about the club referring to it as a rendevu where at least half a dozen prominent Logan men with their women
00:30:01
friends met occasionally oh excuse me their women friends their women friends and they're saying like these are the
00:30:07
prominent men in the city or in in the town so it's like you're pointing very specific fingers at people that you
00:30:14
don't want to [ __ ] with oh it's getting messy it's Messier and it's so sad that
00:30:19
this is like so messy and scandalous but on the back of like M's brutal [ __ ] murder yeah and in my opinion the the
00:30:30
right person does not get convicted for this interesting but we'll get there all
00:30:34
right now as far as anybody knew the club the more more Club there did not play a role in M's murder but
00:30:41
investigators still wanted to question as many patrons as possible and that's kind of why it got discovered and put
00:30:47
into the Press so much that makes sense now in the days after the murder detectives also questioned Mimi's
00:30:53
husband Jack who stated that he had been on night Duty Tuesday and Wednesday night and quote was seen frequently in
00:30:59
the streets until 5:30 p.m. or excuse me 5:30 a.m. Wednesday morning okay so they
00:31:04
were like jack is not yeah not our guy we need to worry about no that basically accounted for his whereabouts during the
00:31:10
time that M was believed to have been murdered yeah now investigators also noted that he had no car and he also
00:31:16
didn't know how to drive so it would have been very difficult and close to impossible for him to have murdered his
00:31:21
wife and then transported her body up to the top of Trace mountain and then back
00:31:26
to be seen on the streets that'd be pretty tough he didn't do it yeah I'm not saying he didn't arrange it I don't
00:31:31
know oh I I don't know at all you're not saying he had like anything to do with it and you're not saying he had nothing
00:31:38
to do with it exactly cuz I don't know I wasn't there I wasn't there it was very
00:31:41
long time ago now on June 25th Harry Robertson and Clarence Stevenson appeared before a packed Lan courtroom
00:31:48
where they were arraigned for M Thurman's murder I believe his wife was eventually let go and the other border
00:31:54
was eventually let go and it was just Harry and Claren now that we're going to stand for this this feels very uh that
00:31:59
felt very burken hair yes like they how they bring everybody in and then they start spping off people yeah yep exactly
00:32:08
and I think it's basically to see like what they can get out of all see if they'll turn on each other see if
00:32:13
anything comes of it exactly now the session the arraignment took much longer than was expected because the case had
00:32:19
drawn such a large crowd it actually had to be moved to a larger Circuit Court both men pleaded not guilty to the
00:32:26
charges but only Clarence Stevenson was called To The Stand I'm GNA let you ponder that for a second huh now he was
00:32:34
guarded by half a dozen state troopers because again they were very concerned for his safety during out during this
00:32:39
entire thing and questioned under oath he shared what he knew of Harry Robertson's relationship with M he told
00:32:46
the court he had never heard Robertson make any threats toward M according to Stevenson Harry and M actually had plans
00:32:52
to meet the night she disappeared but he said those plans were broken the previous Sunday by Harry himself and
00:32:59
he'd actually been the one Stevenson to take a note to M to let her know that like they weren't going to be meeting up
00:33:04
anymore interesting for the most part Claren Stevens say's testimony corroborated actually most of what Harry
00:33:11
had told investigators in the days previous but there were some details either from Stevenson or Robertson that
00:33:18
contradicted previous testimony so they their stories lined up in some ways but then in other ways one would say
00:33:24
something where the other one was like no that's that's not what happened and vice versa so it gets to be like huh
00:33:30
like what really did happen and like what he who's covering for who yeah exactly who's lying here now for example
00:33:36
when he was initially asked about the blood stains discovered in the car Clarence told the detectives that they
00:33:42
had uh often transported the hunting dogs in that vehicle and occasionally their feet bled just from you know being
00:33:48
outside oh I know and like on rough terrain oh my goodness so sad that makes me sad I know but when he was asked the
00:33:55
same question by the prose computer during the arraignment he said quote the dogs were always carried in the back of
00:34:01
the car so he didn't know how the blood could have gotten under the floor coverings in the front oh okay so it was
00:34:06
like interesting said one thing but then was like actually I don't know now it was at this point that Clarence
00:34:13
Stevenson's demeaner changed dramatically and he became reluctant to answer really any of the prosecutor's
00:34:20
questions and he was visibly nervous so the judge was like hey what's going on what going on Budd and he told the judge
00:34:25
he quote had seen him man at the back of the courtroom twirling a pistol a man who could kill me he told the judge whoa
00:34:32
now the judge was like okay like identify this person trying to kill you we'll make sure that you're protected
00:34:37
Clarence was like absolutely no no like no I'm not going to point him out what but being a black man in a small
00:34:44
Kentucky Town I can't say that I don't understand his reluctance to point this person out ABS no that makes a lot of
00:34:50
sense so the only witness who gave testimony during the arraignment was a man named RB Harris he was the local
00:34:56
Undertaker Aker who performed the initial examination of the body and after the arraignment the prosecutor LP
00:35:02
Hager told reporters he intended to call both men ARB Harris and Claren Stevenson
00:35:08
as Witnesses along with several straight state troopers and anybody else marginally related to the case he was
00:35:14
going to call as many people as he could okay now the next day additional testimony again underminded Clarence
00:35:21
Stevens's story when mine worker Ed Dalton testified that he had seen St son out on state rout State Road number 22
00:35:30
near where M had been discovered just hours before she was found is when he said he saw Clarence okay now Dalton's
00:35:38
testimony was followed by Harry Robertson who was called not to testify on his own behalf but called to testify
00:35:45
against Clarence Stevenson the testimony was expected to be Sensational and take
00:35:50
up most of the day but instead it actually confirmed most of what Claren Stevenson had already told the court so
00:35:56
did it back it did a little bit now what was curious though was a letter said to
00:36:02
have been written by Clarence Stevenson to his sister that the prosecution's office intercepted in the middle of all
00:36:10
this huh the letter read please do all you can to help me and go to Mrs Robertson and tell her that they have
00:36:17
taken me to Williams to keep anyone from seeing me but I will not tell anything to hurt Mr Harry and tell her and do
00:36:24
stand up as we all know that it's going to be hard on me and miss Mr Harry they don't know anything to hurt us that's
00:36:29
why they've taken me away from Logan so tell Mr Harry that I will die before I lie on him or Mr Mrs Robinson please
00:36:37
help me okay now I don't really think there's anything incriminating in that letter
00:36:43
personally I all he was saying was like I'm not going to lie and I would never do anything to hurt them and even him
00:36:49
saying like they don't know anything to hurt me that's why they that I I guess people could probably look at that and
00:36:56
be like does that mean there is something and they just don't know it but I take it as like there's nothing
00:37:02
I'm confident in the fact that they don't have anything that's how I take it I can't otherwise how could he be so
00:37:07
confident that they don't have something right if he if he did it exactly yeah I
00:37:13
guess it could be taken the other way it's very interesting you could speculate I guess but there's no there's
00:37:19
no smoking gun or confession in there to me that's how I felt yeah and as far as
00:37:23
Robertson and Steven's uh excuse me Stevenson's attorneys were concerned the letter hinted at some sort of scheme or
00:37:31
conspiracy conspiracy to Railroad these two men for a crime they didn't commit and they doubted the validity of the
00:37:37
letter validity of the letter in the first place oh okay that's interesting they basically were like I think maybe
00:37:44
this got made up somehow and the prosecution is going to use this against them but I I don't even really know how
00:37:50
they're going to again messy messy now defense attorney CL uh Estep told the court the state's case should be built
00:37:59
on substantial foundation on a St a substantial Foundation you will not get Justice by accusing the wrong man with
00:38:05
with the crime and a few days later after the arraignment Harry Robertson posted $10,000 bail and was released
00:38:12
from jail but Clarence Stevenson was unable to post the bond so he was remanded to his cell in Williamson so
00:38:19
now Harry's out but Clarence is still in jail when realistically at the beginning
00:38:26
of all this he was believed to be the accomplice I was just going to say he was not the not the main guy main guy
00:38:32
they were even going after in the first place and now they're treating it like he is the only guy oh just wait I don't
00:38:38
know about this it's horrible so while the investigation had moved surprising excuse me surprisingly swiftly from the
00:38:45
start there was a brief Lull in the case during July when investigators had to wait for the blood test to be completed
00:38:52
okay when the test results finally came back in Late July they did confirm that the blood found in Harry Robertson's car
00:38:58
I repeat in Harry Robertson's car and on Clarence Stevenson's clothes was human oh blood was also discovered on a
00:39:08
straight razor that had been found in the basement but according to the chemist who conducted the study the
00:39:13
stains on the razor quote were too faint to test accurately oh but if you have found blood in the car and blood on one
00:39:22
of their clothes I'm willing to bet the blood on the razor was human yeah yeah I
00:39:26
don't there's nothing in me that believes that's not human blood I'm not saying it's her blood but I'm just
00:39:32
saying it's human it I feel like that's human blood so in early September of 1932 the case had stalled and despite
00:39:39
the offer of $1,000 reward for any information that could lead to a conviction no new leads were turned up
00:39:45
and all the while Clarence is just sitting in a prison cell and for such a brutal crime to have like no leads into
00:39:51
just be holding this guy yeah damn it's nuts so the prosecutor made the decision
00:39:57
to take the case to the grand jury based entirely on circumstantial evidence cuz
00:40:01
they really didn't have an option and like you said they're wasting all this time and so one person's sitting in jail
00:40:07
another's out on Bond and this isn't really going anywhere absolutely so he kind of like between a rock and a hard
00:40:12
place was like let's do this yeah now Harry admitted to having an affair with M and Clarence admitted to his role in
00:40:19
helping facilitate the infidelity but once again they both denied any involvement with this murder as they
00:40:25
were headed to trial and after two months of heavy press coverage and rumors almost everyone in the county had
00:40:31
formed had formed an opinion on the case of course some felt that Harry was guilty While others some other people
00:40:38
found it hard to believe that somebody as smart as Harry would quote leave such an obvious trail of blood from his
00:40:44
basement to his sedan from the house to the mountain side I'm like I wouldn't be yeah look at how brutally she was
00:40:52
killed yeah exactly he could have been very angry and anger distract yeah exactly makes them do stupid things mhm
00:40:59
and now others thought the whole case seemed suspicious from the start of everything and the evidence was too
00:41:04
convenient almost like somebody was trying to frame Harry for the murder okay and then there were even some
00:41:10
people who believed that Harry's wife Louise had taken matters into her own hands and killed m in order to end the
00:41:17
affair huh so we're really speculating here we oh and we continue to wildly while opinions on who killed Mimi were
00:41:24
divided among the residents of Logan a majority of people felt that Harry was somehow involved yeah and they figured
00:41:31
that Clarence Stevenson's participation was in disposing of the body after it had after the murder had been committed
00:41:38
okay and that's how he got blood on his clothes that's what people were speculating in assuming and I kind of am
00:41:45
of that mindset yeah that doesn't seem totally out of the realm of possibility so because he's got blood on his clothes
00:41:50
yeah how do you explain that but what motivation does he have to murder M well that that's where my problem lies it's
00:41:56
like like do I think he didn't have that he was like totally removed from it and
00:41:59
no no I really don't like it seems like he's involved in some way shape or form but that could be totally On The Fringe
00:42:06
of it like how like you said which is not good you know I mean but I I think we should be looking for the person who
00:42:13
actually did it exctly and I don't I just don't see it yet CU like you said I don't know what the motivation is
00:42:19
exactly to do the actual deed right to help afterwards I get it I get what his motivation would have been but
00:42:26
I can't connect it with the other part yeah I think you and I are on the same page here now the grand jury reviewed
00:42:32
the evidence for several days before returning with the shocking decision not to indict Harry Robertson on any of the
00:42:40
58 felony charges he faced how I don't know how excuse me I do he's white now like like that's wild yeah he's white
00:42:53
his father remember his father was the sheriff I that yeah and he's got a great reputation in the community other I mean
00:43:00
aside from being damn uh you know stepping out on his wife uh yeah that so yeah faced he had faced 58 felony
00:43:09
charges and was not going to be indicted on any of them wow while Clarence Stevenson was indicted on several
00:43:18
charges no including one for the murder of M Thurman I don't where the [ __ ] is
00:43:23
the evidence of that [ __ ] [ __ ] [ __ ] I don't know about that prosecutor Lloyd Hager was outraged
00:43:30
actually by the grand jury's decision and believing that Harry Robertson was the main actor in this case he vowed he
00:43:36
would not end the prosecutor's investigation of Robertson I mean he was like we're going
00:43:42
to continue let's go like looking for anything that can connect him to this yeah cuz how are you just letting it go
00:43:48
well and it's like there is no Clarence involvement without Harry I'm sorry there's just not no there is that's how
00:43:55
I feel and it's like we're going to indict one person connected to this other person
00:44:00
that that doesn't make any sense I feel like the real like the real big bad guy here to me seems like Harry me too but
00:44:10
me too I mean there's blood in this car I don't know something went down here and I'm not excusing what Clarence did
00:44:16
if if he is the one that you know disposed of her body and helped along with that I'm not excusing that but I am
00:44:23
just saying it's it's wrong to punish one person and not both people yeah that's that's the problem that I'm
00:44:28
having it's like let's get everybody exactly like why are we not trying to cast a big net here and get everybody
00:44:34
that's involved and I think a lot of it had to do with connections because remember Harry's a prominent guy in town
00:44:40
he actually got Jack Thurman basically his police job that's true so he's got a lot of influence yeah now and the
00:44:46
prosecutor felt the same as us like I just said he was like we're not going to stop until we figure out something to
00:44:51
pin him this on him but regardless of the prosecutor's beliefs Harry Robertson was allowed to walk free and Clarence
00:44:59
Stevenson's trial was set for early October wow unbelievable wow so Clarence Stevenson's trial began in Logan County
00:45:06
Circuit Court on October 10th 1932 before judge non Jackson Lloyd Hagen and assistant prosecuting attorney EMT
00:45:14
Scaggs acted on behalf of the state while Stevenson was rep represented by cep and Chester Chambers the defense
00:45:22
attorneys who had also represented him during the arraignment and the indictment okay the opening day of the
00:45:27
trial attracted more than a thousand people to the court damn most of those people packed themselves into the
00:45:34
courtroom to witness what was at the time the biggest case in Logan County History wow and outside additional
00:45:41
people waited to get in while Street vendors sold water fruit snacks this that and the other thing wow that's like
00:45:49
a circus it's like y'all we're here because a woman was brutally murdered that's the thing I'm like Dam we were
00:45:55
really like scraping the bottom of the barrel back then I understand being interested in court proceedings I would
00:46:01
never say that I wasn't cuz we are now but like there's a certain street vendor sell there's a certain decorum yeah in a
00:46:08
court I would say yeah yeah exactly I don't think you should be like selling hot dogs at a court case for a murdered
00:46:13
woman no me either I think we can all agree on that I think we can I think that's one thing we can all Stand
00:46:18
Together on that'd be great look we found it look at that united we all stand I think here we are yeah now the
00:46:23
prosecutor's original Theory had been that Harry Robertson murdered m in order to cover up their Affair and her affairs
00:46:30
with other local prominent men and he had Enlisted the help of Claren Stevenson to dispose of the body on
00:46:36
Trace Mountain yeah but when the grand jury failed to indict Robertson they were left with only one suspect and
00:46:42
forced to prosecute what was like we were just saying seemingly a mo a motiveless crime that's the thing I got
00:46:48
to know what the hell is going on here so instead of offering a motive the prosecutors just stuck to the evidence
00:46:54
occasionally implying that Clarence Stevenson may have acted in a misguided attempt to protect his
00:47:00
boss Harry okay I don't see it I mean but they were grasping at straw I was just
00:47:07
going to say I I guess in terms of grasping at straws that's a decent attempt yeah because you're going to
00:47:14
convince people some people of that I think that's the only thing they could have done I think that's like one of
00:47:19
those things that I could see people believing that partially so now on the first day of the of witness testimony
00:47:26
The Undertaker RB Harris and Dr WS Rowan took the stand and they explained to the
00:47:31
jury how the body was discovered and transported back to the Undertaker's office as well as describing the extent
00:47:37
of M's injuries her husband Jack was also called that day to testify and he was to tell the jury of his whereabouts
00:47:44
at the time that M had been killed and he gave a detailed account of his life with M he told the jury we were quote we
00:47:51
were always on good terms and almost never fought and his demeanor on the stand was of that of a man who was
00:47:58
genuinely grieving the judge actually had to ask him to speak up multiple times because he tended to speak softly
00:48:05
whenever he spoke of my oh that like breaks my heart he really did love her it sounds and have like this
00:48:12
is so messy oh yeah and to have your to have like the man she was having an affair with like be all involved in this
00:48:22
and like she was brutally murdered and it could have been the guy who she was having an affair with and it's like and
00:48:28
it could have been the guy she was having an affair with trying to help out other men that she may have been having
00:48:34
it's like and this poor guy's like grieving his wife and then having to deal with everybody knowing the sorted
00:48:40
details of their like that's sad I feel really bad having your dirty laundry aired like that during while trying to
00:48:47
grieve while trying to grieve exactly like horrific yeah I can't imagine like I was just gonna say and I just the fact
00:48:56
that the judge had to be like sorry can you speak up cuz he just like always spoke softly when he talked about her
00:49:02
it's just sad but the Final witness called that day was Fanny Jones she was a local black woman who was known to be
00:49:08
friendly with both M and Claren Stevenson and the prosecutor suggested that it was Fanny who had provided a
00:49:15
private room to M where she could meet with many suitors but Fanny vehemently denied that allegation okay now other
00:49:23
Witnesses called to testify included Troopers and investigators and a number of local citizens who claimed that they
00:49:29
had seen Clarence Stevenson in M's Company days before the murder okay and there were also Witnesses who claimed
00:49:36
they saw Clarence driving in the area where M's body was discovered not long before she was found okay now the most
00:49:44
important testimony ended up coming from Harry Robertson himself and he can get [ __ ] oh no in a moment that everybody
00:49:52
seemed to be waiting for Harry provided all the lur details of his relationship with M including that contrary to what
00:50:00
he had initially told investigators they had been carrying on this affair of theirs for two years he told the judge
00:50:06
he had seen he had last seen m in his home around 8:00 p.m. on the evening she was killed so he lied to them originally
00:50:15
oh we that's fine he said he hadn't seen her for I believe two days but now he's
00:50:20
saying he saw her the very night she was killed in his home Jesus he said after he saw around 8:00 p.m. that night he
00:50:27
left the house to take his children to the swimming pool what a doing father I was just going to say doting family man
00:50:33
he said the last time I saw that was the last time I saw her Stephenson was in my
00:50:37
house at the time you [ __ ] [ __ ] damn to just turn on this guy like that damn when he very well may have written
00:50:47
a letter to his sister being like help them protect them I would never lie on them wow and now Harry went on to
00:50:55
explain that when he returned home he noticed that his sedan was missing and it appeared as though Claren Stevenson
00:51:01
had stepped out holy [ __ ] he turned on him big time to save his own ass yeah like what a dick absolutely now even
00:51:09
Louise Robertson his wife was called to the stand and she told the jury that actually she and M had been close
00:51:15
friends until she quote had reason to believe she and my husband were intimate oh man this is so messy it is she said I
00:51:24
that she didn't have any proof of their Affair and nothing in particular had tipped her off she said it was just her
00:51:30
women's intuition that led her to believe that they had been unfaithful usually right yep now even after all of
00:51:38
that though Louise stood by her husband she confirmed his Alibi of taking the kids swimming and she said yep Clarence
00:51:45
did go out immediately after my husband left the house and upon cross-examination Louise confirmed that
00:51:51
her husband did own a gun a 38 caliber revolver which is exactly the gun that made me
00:51:57
been sounds familiar but when she was asked to confirm that she quickly added that when investigator searched the
00:52:04
house she overheard one of the officers say the pistol hadn't been fired wow uh objection here say yeah the
00:52:12
[ __ ] like I I overheard it like maybe okay yeah maybe not though no and gee how how convenient is that now the only
00:52:25
thing Louise failed to mention on the stand was the fact that she knew M had been concocting a scheme to drive a
00:52:32
wedge between her and her husband according to Clarence being stuck in the middle of their love triangle eventually
00:52:39
became too much for him to Bear especially after M confided in him that she intended to break up the Robertson's
00:52:46
marriage oh Clarence then told Louise of this plan just months before M was killed oh damn yeah so he took the stand
00:52:56
on October 14th and did his best to defend himself and explain the inconsistencies in his stories but he
00:53:03
was a black man in West Virginia sorry I've been saying we were in Kentucky we started in Kentucky we ended up in West
00:53:09
Virginia sorry about that so he's a black man in West Virginia who was accused of murdering a white woman his
00:53:15
defense was an uphill battle he spent to say the very least the very least there
00:53:20
aren't even words I don't think he spent nearly the entire day on the witness stand first answering questions from his
00:53:27
own attorne attorney excuse me Then followed by cross-examination from the prosecutor and during this questions uh
00:53:34
questioning Clarence told the jury about various vague and Anonymous threats that
00:53:38
he'd gotten since being taken into custody including one incident that involved intimidation and police
00:53:45
brutality can you believe it can you geez wow like this far back yeah still according to to Clarence he was in the
00:53:56
back of a state troopers car traveling up toward the top of Trace mountain when they heard gunshots near the vehicle and
00:54:02
Clarence claimed the trooper turned to him and said the shots were from the mob that was waiting at the top of the
00:54:07
mountain for him unless he told them what he knew they he said the police officer would throw him out to the Mob
00:54:14
who would almost certainly kill him my God now when the prosecutor asked how he responded in that moment Claren said if
00:54:21
I was making my dying dying statement it would be I don't know any more than I've
00:54:25
told wow like if I was on my deathbed right now I would tell you I've told you everything yeah now on October 14th
00:54:33
after closing arguments had been made the jury retired to their Chambers for deliberation and after reviewing the
00:54:39
evidence and testimony for less than an hour they returned with a verdict of guilty but quote recommended Mercy
00:54:47
thereby making it mandatory that he be given a he'd be given life imprisonment versus the death penalty wow so even
00:54:53
this jury knew that he hadn't acted alone and they were like we can't put this man to death over this y when we're
00:55:01
not doing anything to the other man who is almost most certainly involved absolutely now defense attorney Chester
00:55:07
Chambers immediately moved that the verdict be set aside and the judge granted this motion and that deferred
00:55:13
Clarence Stevenson Clarence Stevenson's sentence until arguments could be heard in the Circuit Court okay now the
00:55:20
sentencing hearing began on October 21st and during it several notes were found at at the courthouse that appeared to be
00:55:26
written by a concerned citizen the writer claimed to have witnessed M's murder and indicated that Clarence
00:55:32
Stevenson had nothing to do with the crime but other than that they didn't give much information now presented with
00:55:39
the letters both the prosecution and the defense actually agreed that they were probably fabricated in order to divert
00:55:45
attention from Clarence okay so they didn't present them to the judge oh I don't know about that decision making
00:55:53
but that's confusing it is a little confusing but on October 25th having no additional
00:55:59
information the judge listened to the arguments from both sides and then senten Clarence
00:56:04
Stevenson to life imprisonment for the murder of M Thurman now he and his lawyers appealed the conviction in
00:56:12
November of 1933 claiming among other things that the jury Commissioners failed to include any black jurors
00:56:19
solely because of their race wow they had admitted improper evidence and refused to admit proper evidence and
00:56:25
then there was a whole Myriad of other things that they had done wrong but the justices on the Supreme Court of Appeals
00:56:31
listen to both arguments and then rejected The Plea and upheld the lower Court's
00:56:36
verdict wow in their uh in their summary judgment they rejected nearly every Point made that made by the defense
00:56:43
writing we would not be warranted in reversing the Judgment for insufficiency of evidence under the circumstances
00:56:49
presented by the proof so convincing of guilt it's like what convinced you of the guilt going to say can you is the
00:56:56
guilt in the room with us right now like can you can you point to it there's it's
00:57:01
what's convincing about anything thing that they said yeah I don't know about this one this one is that's that's a
00:57:06
little shady it's all shady and we all know what it's rooted in cuz like I said it can I see him being somebody who
00:57:12
helped after the fact definitely but I don't see the murder I don't see the murder I don't see it at all or at least
00:57:20
they haven't convinced me no that's for sure no definitely not me but on their ruling Clarence was returned to West
00:57:26
Virginia Penitentiary uh Penitentiary excuse me to continue serving his sentence uh in 1939 he was transferred
00:57:34
to huttonville Correctional Center due to overcrowding and then in late 1941 after complaining of stomach pains for
00:57:41
months and months and months he was diagnosed with stomach cancer holy [ __ ] and he ended up passing away several
00:57:49
months later on April 24th 1942 God so he spent he did spend the rest of his life in prison for this wow now to many
00:57:57
residents in Logan County Clarence Stevenson was a scapegoat a very easy Target on which the terrible crime could
00:58:04
be pinned and then shut away in prison yeah that's what it seems like because if you took Harry Robertson out of the
00:58:10
equation like we've been saying this entire time there wasn't much evidence to say Clarence and M even knew each
00:58:16
other very well yeah had it not been for Harry they might not have ever spoken yeah it's like and now we're supposed to
00:58:23
believe that he just killed her out of nowhere out of literally nowhere but when it came to the real killer there
00:58:28
were several theories and they have been talked about for hundreds and hundreds of years okay the most obvious and
00:58:35
popular of the theories was that Harry murdered M after finding out that she kept a list of her ilicit affairs with
00:58:41
several prominent men to prevent her he killed her to prevent her from exposing their infidelities and ruining their
00:58:48
reputations okay and similarly some people actually believed that Harry's wife Louise had killed m
00:58:55
either because she learned of M's plan to break up the marriage or because she simply wanted to end the affair yeah I'm
00:59:02
not sure about that yeah that one this one's hard it's hard I don't know about that though yeah I'm not sure
00:59:12
to me I really do think two people were here for this I kind of think that too but then I but I don't know I mean it
00:59:22
could have been one person it absolutely like it's very much two yeah my initial
00:59:28
thought was there was two people because the gunshots the sliced throat that's the thing it feels really brutal which
00:59:35
again one person could absolutely do this especially especially because it's like
00:59:41
she was they think she was shot first mhm and then the sliced throat and the broken neck was done afterwards so it's
00:59:48
like yeah I guess one person could do that cuz all they would technically have to do to incapacitate her was shoot her
00:59:54
and then afterwards it's just do the stuff afterwards but also it's like why this the throat slash with one
01:00:01
person to me that's say that's like a personal thing it feels like that's what I thought too it's cuz he had already
01:00:08
killed her so why do that besides to make it worse and just because you're angry and I guess yeah so you know what
01:00:16
the more I think about it I think it kind of is one person yeah and then the other person just came the other person
01:00:21
was to help get rid of the evidence yeah yeah yeah I don't think it was Louise though
01:00:28
no no no that one doesn't check for me but another popular theory was that M had been killed by an organized crime
01:00:35
group in order to prevent her from exposing their liquor operations in the area because remember prohibition okay
01:00:41
and throughout the I'm I'm not saying that I don't see this I could yeah personally I think Harry had something
01:00:45
to do with it though throughout the investigation and trial it became clear that M was a well organized
01:00:51
opportunistic woman who had been keeping notes and ga Gathering evidence that she
01:00:55
thought might be useful to her in the future and as a regular patron of the Amore Club it was likely that she had
01:01:02
been intimately familiar with men responsible for the illegal gambling the prostitution quote unquote and the
01:01:09
liquor coming in and out of Logan County okay so some believed that if she had been discovered to pose a threat to the
01:01:15
organized criminal operation behind those illicit activities she would have been killed in order to prevent her from
01:01:21
going to the police this one makes the most sense to me and as a support for this Theory some
01:01:28
Believers pointed to the execution style method of killing used in the murder that's that's what's striking to me is
01:01:36
the the methods used here feel strange to mehm this makes the most sense and you
01:01:43
were saying like I think earlier you were saying with all the different motives it seems like they were trying
01:01:49
or all the different umth methods excuse me they were trying to confuse the police yeah that seems like has
01:01:55
organized crime all over it it does and maybe I mean Harry's dad was a sheriff you know sometimes they can be crooked
01:02:03
and he was involved in all the same things that M was maybe he was connected to these people and had I mean the fact
01:02:12
that all the stuff was found in his car in his basement leads me to believe that
01:02:15
he had some involvement in this yeah and remember she lived above his she lived above his garage in an apartment true so
01:02:22
I could see this organized thing being part of it part of a puzzle but I still think Harry has a piece in that puzzle
01:02:30
because it's like the human blood well we can't tell that it's human blood on the straight razor technically
01:02:35
we don't have that confirmation but there is human blood in his car and there's human blood on clar St says
01:02:41
clothes clothes do we know that it's MES without any doubt no no cuz it was like the late
01:02:50
20s but we know it was human so whose blood is all over your clothes exactly and whose blood is all over your car mhm
01:02:57
because if it's not M then like who the [ __ ] is it who's is it right who else did you hurt yeah so yeah I feel like
01:03:03
they it had to be an involvement somehow I think so but the organized crime thing
01:03:07
really makes the most sense it does make a lot of sense logistically now other residents around Logan have their own
01:03:13
theories most having to do with M being killed in order to protect the reputation of Harry and the elite
01:03:19
citizens that moved in M Circle okay but regardless of who was responsible for her death these days the memories of M
01:03:26
Thurman Harry Robertson and Claren Stevenson have been all but forgotten by the residents of Logan count uh County
01:03:33
but there are some people who believe a part of M Still Remains oh according to local Legend if you drive out to Road 22
01:03:41
near the spot where M's body was left nearly a century ago you might catch a glimpse of her ghost wandering along the
01:03:48
roadway they say oh [ __ ] we have a ghost I know and there are also people who claim that if you leave your car in
01:03:55
neutral while you're sitting on this road you might even find an unseen presence pushing the vehicle uphill I
01:04:02
always love those and some people believe that is the evidence of the enduring Spirit of Mimi Thurman she's
01:04:07
just helping you out yeah good Mimi it's worth mentioning that uh writer Joyce Robertson actually wrote a screenplay
01:04:14
about the last few months of M's life oh wow and it was performed at the local high school but then it was performed
01:04:20
even after that and I'd be really interested to see it yeah that would be really interesting it sounds really good
01:04:25
like just knowing the cool chick that she was and like all the wild things she got up too exactly like she was a really
01:04:34
cool chick she was and I she was like so ahead of her time yeah she was just so sad that she died so young yeah and just
01:04:41
it's also really sad that one person went to prison for it and that it's the person you're like who ises of it the
01:04:50
least connected to it yeah and the fact that Harry Robertson just got to go about about the rest of his life yeah I
01:04:55
don't know about that I don't know about any of that but that is the tragic case
01:05:00
of M Thurman wow it makes me so mad that you don't we don't have like full answers I know that like cuz at the end
01:05:08
there really leaves it open to interpretation and it's like and the interpretation just leads to so many
01:05:13
more questions more questions that's the thing like you think you get it and then
01:05:16
you're like wait but this right cuz you thought we thought we had totally got it
01:05:20
and then we get to the organized crime part and you're like and you're like well [ __ ] that makes
01:05:24
no matter what it's just so tragic it is poor M it is and poor Jack yeah I don't
01:05:30
think he was involved in it in any way I don't think so either I was leading you
01:05:33
astray before yeah you were you're welcome thanks but as always we hope that you keep listening and we hope you
01:05:39
keep it weird but not so weird that not so weird that your fire alarm goes off at 3:00 a.m. yeah don't that
01:05:49
[Music] weird [Music]