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Randy Kraft: The Scorecard Killer (Part 1) | Morbid | Podcast

August 14, 2025 / 01:04:50

This episode covers the transition of Morbid podcast to SiriusXM, the end of their Wondery Plus partnership, and the introduction of a new case about Randy Craft, known as the Scorecard Killer. Key discussions include the details of Craft's crimes, the victims, and the investigation process.

Elena and Ash announce their excitement about joining SiriusXM and explain the changes in episode releases, including a new bonus episode each month. They emphasize that listeners will still have access to their content across various platforms.

The episode shifts focus to Randy Craft, who operated in Southern California during the 1970s and 80s, kidnapping and murdering at least 16 men and boys. The hosts discuss the gruesome details of Craft's methods and the chilling discovery of a list of potential victims.

Elena and Ash recount the stories of several victims, including Edward Daniel Moore and Ronald Weeb, detailing the circumstances of their deaths and the investigation's challenges. They highlight the emotional impact of the case and the biases faced by the victims.

The episode concludes with a promise of more details in the next part, leaving listeners with a sense of anticipation and the weight of the horrific events discussed.

TLDR

Morbid podcast transitions to SiriusXM while detailing the horrific crimes of Randy Craft, the Scorecard Killer, and his numerous victims.

Episode

1:04:50
00:00:06
Hey weirdos. I'm Elena. I'm Ash. And this is Morbid, where we're really happy. [Music]
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We're happy. I just want to be happy. Happy. I'm trying and it's finally enough.
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Uh, you probably saw this multiple weeks ago. Who knows when? Who knows when? We
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sure don't. But that will be a thing of the past very soon because [ __ ] we signed with Sirius XM.
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>> Starting September 1st, we are going to be part of the SiriusXM home. Although
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it already feels like we're part of their home. We love them. the nicest people.
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>> They're lovely. We're very excited to be a part of that crew and for them to be a
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part of our crew and for it to be one big happy happy family over here. >> It's awesome. But obviously, uh, since
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we announced this by the time you're listening to this multiple weeks ago, we saw you have a lot of questions. We
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probably have already answered them through a video at this point, but we'll answer them again.
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>> Here we go. >> Yeah. >> It'll help us plan for the video that we haven't filmed yet, but that we will and
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that you've already seen. Isn't that weird? Yeah. Anyway, so uh addressing Werey Plus, we will no longer be on
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Wondery Plus starting September 1st. >> We will not be on Wondery Plus September
00:01:38
1st. >> No. Um early and adree early will no longer be a thing. I think it just is
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really tough to be able to connect with you. We both feel this way to connect with you guys when things are not coming
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out simultaneously. So Sirius has its own ad free platform that you can sign up for if you so choose where you can
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get the episodes ad free but everybody will get them at the same time. >> Yeah. So you can just choose whether you
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would like to pay for ad free or not. >> That's your choice babe. >> That's your choice but you can hear us
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everywhere. We'll be on you know Amazon music, Spotify, Apple, wherever you're listening to it. If it's not Wondery
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Plus we will be on there facts. So nothing's going to change. The only good things that are going to change are good
00:02:22
things because it just um you know, we're going to be coming out at the same time every week. Still two episodes
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actually, >> but so yes, we're going to be doing a bonus episode that's going to come out
00:02:34
in addition to the two episodes that already come out. one week out of the month, which I think we're going to do
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at the second week of the month. You're going to get a bonus episode, >> a third episode that week.
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>> That's going to be anything from like a guest episode, uh, talk us talking about
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like maybe like a cool documentary, maybe like we'll do like a book club or something. Who knows? Yeah, it can be
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really It could be just a smaller case or a smaller spooky thing we didn't really think belonged in like a full
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length episode like the regular other two episodes that week, but just kind of an overflow thing that we were like, we
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want you to hear about this, but >> yes, >> now you get it as an extra thing. You do
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not have to pay for this bonus episode. It's going to everybody. >> Yes. >> It's free for everybody
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>> and we're going to do it every month >> and it's fun. >> So, every month there'll be one week
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with three episodes in it. >> Yes. And if you um like we're still doing listener tail episodes once a
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month that will stay at the I think it's the last Thursday of every month. >> Yeah. The same as it is now.
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>> If you're watching those on YouTube, they're still going to be there. Have no
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fear. Literally like barely anything is changing. It's only good things like you
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just said. >> Yeah, exactly. We're just adding more episodes for you that are free.
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>> Yeah. Um, and that we won't have such um we won't have a long time between recording and it coming out. So, we'll
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be able to be a little more current with what's happening around us and yeah, feel more connected with you guys cuz,
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you know, that was that was a big deal for us. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Um, but it's very exciting because
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everything's, you know, everything's going to be >> awesome. It's all happening, Sheena
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Shay. >> It's all happening. Sheena Shay, I'm obsessed. And we got to do a fun photo
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shoot for it yesterday with our friend, our new friend Johnny. >> Yeah, definitely go. We We tagged him in
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the post about the release. >> Tag is literally just is a hermit. >> Yeah. And he's an amazing photographer,
00:04:22
so definitely check him out. >> Hire him for all your photography needs. He made us feel [ __ ] amazing.
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>> Yeah. I hate I literally hate getting my picture taken. >> Yeah. We were both like panicking on the
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way there. >> I hate it. We both were like, "Why did we set this up? Do we Oh my god, what do
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we do?" And then we got there and we were like, "Oh, this is so easy." >> Yeah. I genuinely hate like I don't find
00:04:42
photo shoots fun. Like I'm not one of those people who gets excited for I get very anxious and I just don't like it. I
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had a blast. >> You made me feel very comfortable. >> I love a photo shoot. I hate the part
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where you get the pictures back because you're like, "Oh no, I didn't think I didn't think that was going to happen."
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The only two people who have ever made me feel that way are Johnny, who we shot with yesterday, and then my wedding
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photographer, Molly Quill. Yeah. >> Two best photographers ever. >> Yeah. So, see, it's all great.
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>> Yeah. It's all good stuff, everybody. >> Yeah. >> We're excited about it. And I I'm really
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glad that I brought you all up. Um because I'm going to pile drive you down into the ground now.
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>> Thank you for >> with one of the worst cases I have ever read in >> my life. Okay. So,
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uh, so hold on to that serotonin, I hear it, cuz it Whoops. >> Hold on to your serotonin.
00:05:37
>> Hold on to it. Uh, cuz today we are going to be talking about a case I'm going to, this case is going to be three
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parts. Um, it's a long case. Like, this is not three parts that are short. This is
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pretty long. >> Um, we're breaking it up. I'm going to break it up because one, there is so
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much happening in this. There are many, many victims, many, many intense details, and it it took a long time to
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figure who this guy was. And there's all kinds of other crazy stuff that we still
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haven't even determined yet about this case. And it took place in, you know, the the 70s and 80s essentially.
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>> So, this is going to be a three-parter. This first one is going to be pretty long and it's going to be pretty rough.
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So, I just need to let you guys know ahead of time that this episode in particular is going to be a tough one.
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>> So, yeah, in between this series, like this three-parter and whatever we put out next, we're going to do a spooky
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episode as like a palette cleanser. >> Yeah, because after these three episodes, you're going to need a a
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minute to breathe. Um, so we're talking about Randy Craft, also known by the press as the scorecard killer.
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Um, so let's start way back in the 1970s, Southern California. I mean, people who
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lived in Southern California, they were held in terror because multiple serial killers were stalking their area at any
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given time. >> California really had a time where they just [ __ ] went through it.
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>> Especially the 70s, it was like they were just the 70s and 80s, they were really going through it. And the thing
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is like these these serial killers were praying on victims from like a lot of different walks of life.
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>> Um no one was safe. >> Yeah. No one was safe there. From 1971 to 1983, Randy Craft, who we are talking
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about today, kidnapped, tortured, and murdered at least 16 men and boys. >> Jeez.
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>> But the real number of victims is considered to be very higher than that. >> Yeah.
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>> Like much higher than that. Um, when he was arrested in 1983, investigators searched his house and found this like
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really cryptic list with like cryptic references to what they believed were 61 victims in total.
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>> What the [ __ ] >> 61. >> That's insane. Think I need you to think about lining 61 people up in front of
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you. >> That's a lot of [ __ ] people. That's like somebody's entire family. >> Yeah. Like extended extended family. I
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don't even know if our family reunions have that many people at them. >> And the discovery of that list is what
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led to the nickname the scorecard killer. >> Um, after he was arrested in 1983, Randy
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Craft was tried and convicted of 16 counts of firstdegree murder and sentenced to death. In fact, and don't
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worry, we'll go over all of that. Um, but the the arrest and trial were definitely putting an end to the murder
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spree that had happened. But there were some questions that weren't yet answered. And this is the part of the
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case that really threw me for a loop because like that happens. We arrest Randy Craft. He's sentenced. He's
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charged. >> But then the question remained, who helped him? >> Oh, he had help. He They think he had an
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accomplice. >> What? >> Yeah. >> And they don't still able to figure out who it was.
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>> No. I [ __ ] hate that. And when you hear the details of why they thought about this, it will chill your bones.
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>> I really hate that a lot >> because when you really look at the evidence of it, you're like, "Yeah, I
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think he had to help." >> And the fact that they didn't find this person is just gut-wrenching because of
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what? >> And they think he had a help in like almost all of these. >> I think they do. Yeah.
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>> What? >> Or at least some of them. >> Most of them. >> Yeah. Now, let's go back to 1972. It was
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in the early morning hours, December 26th of that year, just before 2:00 a.m., a California Highway Patrol
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officer was driving near the 17th Street exit on the 405 freeway. And as he drove
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by, he saw like a a group of people just standing on the shoulder of the off-ramp, like gathered around something
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on the side of the road. So when he pulled up to them to be like, "What the [ __ ] are you doing?" He gets out and
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sees that they're all standing at a decomposing body of a young man who was just laying there crumpled on the
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ground. and appeared to be in his maybe early 20s. >> Oh. >> Now, from what the officer could tell,
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the man had been dead for at least a day and his body had already started decomposing. He was fully dressed in a
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jacket, sweater, t-shirts, and pants, but he was only wearing one sock, no shoes, and his belt appeared to be
00:10:16
missing. >> Okay. Now, uh this poor man had obvious liature marks around his neck. And the
00:10:22
officer saw that and was like, I suspect that's probably the cause of death. But
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as he looked closer, he also saw that this young man appeared to have been struck in the face with an object or a
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fist because there was severe bruising around his nose and mouth. >> Now, in the days that followed this, um,
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this man would be identified as 20-year-old Edward Daniel Moore. >> It's a baby.
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>> He was a serviceman stationed at nearby Camp Pedleton. Uh, he was last seen a
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few days earlier at the Army base, but he had a history of going AWOL. >> Yeah. Uh, so when he wasn't immediately
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located, no one really suspected anything bad had happened. >> Um, he had a, you know, he had a tough
00:11:01
childhood. He was placed in foster care as a child because his parents were deemed unfit.
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>> So he probably had a very difficult upbringing. And so he ended up having a lot of disciplinary issues growing up
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because obviously he was acting out due to likely trauma. >> Yeah. >> Um, since then though, he'd managed to
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like get by on his instincts and knowhow. He was like a very savvy guy that way. Now, when the autopsy was
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done, the medical examiner determined that his cause of death had been esphyxiation,
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>> but he found out that he had been gared, not manually strangled. >> Oh, that always adds such a layer.
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>> A garat is um you may have remember hearing about it in the um John Ramsey case, which is really awful. It's
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unfortunately always what I think of when it's brought. >> It's usually when there's um something
00:11:48
put around the neck several times usually and it's tied into a mechanism. Usually it can you know in John Bane
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Ramsay's case it was the end of a paintbrush. >> Yeah. >> And it is used to twist and tighten it
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like like a machine almost. >> It's like medieval torture. >> Yeah. It really is. It's an awful awful
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in whoever is doing the garading can kind of loosen it or tighten it at will. So it prolongs it.
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>> Yeah, it can prolong it. >> Now, in addition to the ligature marks around his neck, there were similar
00:12:18
marks on his wrists and ankles which indicated he had been restrained prior to death.
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>> There was also a bunch of abrasions on his face from being beaten. Um, this is
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going to get very graphic and just from here on out, we're going to get very graphic and I apologize ahead of time
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cuz we're essentially talking about torture here. There's a lot of torture happening in these and it's brutal. Um,
00:12:38
his genitals had clear bite marks on them and scratch marks. >> Oh. >> Um, it also appeared that he had been
00:12:47
sexually assaulted. Um, and his missing sock, cuz he was only wearing one sock, had been found stuffed into his anus.
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>> Oh my god. >> Yeah. Um, that is kind of a calling card. That >> he does that. This killer does that a
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lot. >> Yeah, this is kind of a thing. Um, and the medical examiner believed that he
00:13:07
had been redressed after being killed. >> That for some I mean for so many reasons
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is so freaking >> that's a chilling detail. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like what are you doing?
00:13:17
>> There was also a lot of superficial scratches on his arms and other exposed body parts which looked like they were
00:13:23
um like like he had fallen on gravel. And the medical examiner believed they were consistent with the type of
00:13:28
injuries one would get if they had fallen on gravel or been pushed but from a moving vehicle. Oh wow.
00:13:34
>> Um so they believe that that's what happened. Um in fact the medical examiner told investigators it probably
00:13:41
slowed down but it didn't stop. >> So maybe when he was pushed out or dumped. >> Yeah. Okay.
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>> Like when they believe he was probably killed and pushed out of a moving vehicle on the side of the freeway.
00:13:51
>> A few days later the results of a toxicology test showed that there were no drugs in Moore's system and his blood
00:13:57
alcohol was well below the legal limit. Um, Detective Bill Tines knew the most reasonable place to start their
00:14:04
interviews would be with the other soldiers at Camp Pendleton. But because there was like a very particular sexual
00:14:10
nature of Moore's injuries, he also expected that they should interview people he may have socialized within the
00:14:16
community, anyone he may have had a relationship with at some point. Investigators soon learned that Eddie
00:14:21
Moore had only just turned 20 a few months earlier. He was basically 19, >> and his tenure in the military had been
00:14:28
pretty short. Um he'd come to Camp Pendleton after enlisting in the south and before that he and his brother had
00:14:34
spent their youths bouncing from one foster home to another. >> That's awful. >> Yeah. So fellow soldier Charles Vines
00:14:40
said uh told investigators, "My impression of Eddie is that he is a lonely kind of person and kind of lost."
00:14:46
>> Yeah. >> Um Eddie and Charles had had a very close relationship for a bit before his
00:14:50
murder. >> And he said Eddie is the kind of person that would befriend or try to become
00:14:54
friends with anybody who would talk to him for very long. If somebody Yeah. If somebody in a restaurant or on the beach
00:15:00
or any place would stop and talk to Eddie for four or five minutes, Eddie would want to become that person's
00:15:05
friend. >> Oh, like >> and that just shows he probably like that's a direct result of like
00:15:12
abandonment, you know? >> Absolutely. Like you're just looking for love and just connection. Yeah. Although
00:15:17
there were no suspects or leads and evidence was very slim, a picture of Eddie Moore was beginning to kind of
00:15:23
like emerge that was suggesting just how he may have been lured to the beach in the first place. Right.
00:15:31
>> Vines had told the detective that Moore had hitchhiked a lot. He liked to go to
00:15:35
that beach. >> He liked to go there to escape the stress of life. You know, that was a
00:15:39
sanctuary place. He was also fairly irresponsible and impulsive, according to Vines, often acting without regard
00:15:45
for consequences. Yeah, he's just a 20-year-old. Um, so it seemed pretty reasonable to assume that he had either
00:15:52
been picked up by or gone off with a stranger who had shown him just some kindness.
00:15:57
>> Yeah. >> Um, >> which was also like very normal at that time. >> Exactly. After a month of slow
00:16:03
investigation, Detective Tines hadn't made much progress on the Moore case. And then a second body was discovered
00:16:09
under very similar circumstances. Uh this time this body was discovered on the muddy bank of the Terminal Island
00:16:15
Freeway in Wilmington. On the afternoon of February 6th, 1973, investigators in Wilmington were called to Seal Beach for
00:16:23
what was described as the discovery of a murder victim. When LAPD detective John
00:16:28
St. John arrived at the scene. He saw that the victim, a young man in his late teens, or early 20s, was lying nude in
00:16:35
the overgrowth near the off-ramp to the Terminal Island freeway. According to the medical examiner, um this young man
00:16:42
had only been dead for about 6 hours, and like Eddie Moore, the cause of death appeared to be asphyxiation from
00:16:48
garotting. >> Um and the gar was a steel wire. Oh. >> Now to Detective St. John, there was a
00:16:55
lot of similarities between these two cases like right off the bat. Not only had the victim been strangled with a
00:17:01
garage um and seemed to have been pushed out of a slowmoving vehicle on the side
00:17:06
of the highway again, but the victim also had the sock placed where it had been placed in the first case.
00:17:14
>> Yeah. >> Um otherwise, the two young men were similar in age and build, so that was
00:17:18
also something to look at. But unlike the Eddie Moore case, detectives were unable to identify this young man found
00:17:26
near Terminal Island through fingerprinting or any other kind of identification.
00:17:30
>> Wow. >> Several sketches and digital renderings have been made of this victim in the
00:17:35
years after this. No identity has been found for this young man. >> That's awful.
00:17:41
>> That [ __ ] kills me. >> And how old was he? Did you say 19? >> He was like they think he was like late
00:17:45
teen, early 20s. >> Oh, that's that's so sad. It's like why has nobody come forward and claimed this
00:17:51
person? >> No one has claimed him. That's so sad. It >> is really really sad. >> But it just like it goes to show people
00:17:59
these serial killers can sense that in so many upon it. >> Oh, and it's so awful.
00:18:05
>> Now nearly 6 weeks passed since the discovery of the second body when on April 17th, Huntington Beach police
00:18:11
received another early morning call from a driver who claimed to have found a body by the side of the road. Another
00:18:17
one. Uh this was in an area lo known locally as Airport Hill. Uh so investigators get to the scene and they
00:18:24
found the body of a young man, again in his late teens or early 20s, lying near the side of the road. Uh this boy
00:18:30
appeared to be between 18 and 25, anywhere in there. He had blonde hair. He was average build. He was dressed in
00:18:37
a shirt, pants, and socks, but he was wearing no shoes. And his belt was missing.
00:18:42
>> Based on his appearance, detectives at the scene believed his cause of death had been blunt force trauma to the head.
00:18:47
Oh wow. >> When an autopsy was performed later that day, it turned out that the cause of
00:18:51
death was not blunt force trauma, it was suffocation. Uh but the medical examiner
00:18:56
couldn't tell whether it was by strangulation or quote by a gag or something put over the nose and mouth.
00:19:03
In addition to the suffocation, there was also evidence of considerable anti-mortem trauma to the body,
00:19:10
including ligature marks on the wrist, bruising around his mouth and nose, and his genitals had been removed. Oh. Um,
00:19:18
he had lost at least two pints of blood because of that. >> And they he was still alive when that
00:19:22
happened, they think. >> Mhm. >> Oh my god. >> There was also evidence of sexual
00:19:27
assault and postmortem road burns and cuts all over his exposed parts of his body, which indicated that he too had
00:19:33
been pushed out of the vehicle. >> The victim had no ID on him, and they ran his fingerprints through the state
00:19:39
database, and nothing came back. Like the previous victim, a composite sketch was made and circulated, but no one in
00:19:47
the area seemed to recognize this young man or know who he was. >> And he's still unidentified.
00:19:51
>> It seemed Well, we'll get to it. It seemed surprising to the officers that somebody, especially someone this age,
00:19:57
would disappear and not be reported by anyone. >> Yeah. >> But as they would later find out, that
00:20:03
was because they were looking in the wrong place. >> Okay. In March 1995, so we're skipping
00:20:08
ahead, nearly 22 years after this body was found in Huntington Beach, Kurt Marine, a Santa Ana County Deputy
00:20:15
Coroner, merged his California fingerprint database with that of the wider western United States and received
00:20:22
a match on the fingerprints. >> Oh. >> The young man from 1973 turned out to be 18-year-old
00:20:29
Kevin Clark Bailey. His father, Clark Bailey, after receiving a phone call about this, said, "I was a little
00:20:36
stunned." >> Yeah. >> Clark Bailey had divorced his wife when Kevin was just four years old, and he
00:20:42
hadn't seen either of his children since then. Oh. >> According to report records, Kevin
00:20:47
Bailey had grown up in Middleton, New York, and had been living in Corvalis, Oregon, nearly a thousand miles away
00:20:52
from Huntington Beach, as recently as 5 days before his murder. >> Oh. In fact, he he had been
00:21:00
fingerprinted on April 4th, 1973 when he was picked up for loitering around a schoolyard, which is how they were able
00:21:06
to get the match on the fingerprints. >> Oh. >> Had police in Huntington Beach had the
00:21:10
capability of searching fingerprint records like around where that area was, they would have matched those two and he
00:21:18
would have been identified immediately. >> Yeah. It was just the fact that it was
00:21:21
too >> Yeah. >> too early on. Now, it would have been pretty helpful for investigators to
00:21:25
identify Bailey's body at the time it was found, >> but that doesn't really mean that they
00:21:30
would have found the killer. >> Yeah. >> Um, in addition to not knowing the identity of the victim, they also had
00:21:36
literally no forensic evidence and no leads. >> In fact, just about the only thing they
00:21:41
did have was a very strong suspicion that the Moore case and the two identified cases were all the work of
00:21:46
the same killer. That's literally at this point, >> which is nothing really. >> Yeah. And they had barely any time to
00:21:52
even like sit here and ponder on this. Um because what April 22nd, investigators received a call about
00:21:59
several body parts having been found in locations around Wilmington. >> And this is just like month to month.
00:22:05
>> Yeah. This is literally like days at this point. So, they arrive at the scene
00:22:09
and detectives learn that, as had been described to them over the phone, locals had indeed found one leg, two arms, a
00:22:16
torso, and human skin had been found in four green plastic bags on Terminal Island, not far from where the second
00:22:24
victim was discovered. >> Human skin? >> Yeah. >> Just a bag of human skin. >> Human skin.
00:22:32
>> Yep. >> Holy [ __ ] dude. According to the press, quote, "The torso, that of a young man,
00:22:37
had been mutilated. A few days later, on the morning of April 25th, the victim's
00:22:42
other leg was discovered in a dumpster behind a bar just off the Pacific Coast Highway. Unlike the other limbs, it had
00:22:49
been wrapped in cloth and placed in the trash." 2 days after the leg was discovered, the victim's head was
00:22:55
discovered in a paper bag by an employee loading paper waste on a conveyor belt in the Pioneer Paper Stock Company.
00:23:02
>> Jesus. Because the company processes paper waste from all over the LA area, there was no way to know where the head
00:23:09
had originally been discarded. >> Yeah. >> Nevertheless, investigators were like
00:23:14
99% sure that the head belonged to the dismembered victim found on Terminal Island. Cuz
00:23:18
>> you would think, >> you know, what are the odds? >> Yeah. >> According to the medical examiner, all
00:23:23
the limbs, quote, were severed with a dull knife. Oh, what the [ __ ] This is like horror movie [ __ ] I was just
00:23:32
thinking that >> um as with the previous two victims, investigators were unable to identify
00:23:38
this dismembered victim and the remains are still unidentified to this day. >> You have to another one
00:23:45
>> that's awful that that's still unidentified that person is. And you have to think too
00:23:50
>> the enjoyment that this person must be like the killer must be getting out of this
00:23:56
because think about how long we've talked about it taking to dissect a body with a good knife. Like that's a project
00:24:02
that's going to take some time. >> But a dull >> a dull knife. >> Yeah, >> that's going to take
00:24:08
>> a long time. >> Days I would think. >> A long time. And they knew at this point
00:24:14
they were like this is definitely the work of the same killer. I mean this is just
00:24:18
>> this person is depraved. Now, whenever there are multiple victims discovered over kind of a short period of time,
00:24:25
investigators obviously have to consider whether they should even disclose these
00:24:30
connections to the public because that might cause panic. >> Yeah. This was particularly true in
00:24:35
Southern California in the 1970s where residents had also kind of already been traumatized by multiple serial killers
00:24:42
like Herbert Mullen, Ed Keer, the Zodiac Killer. Mhm. But with the discovery of the fourth body, investigators were
00:24:49
like, "We got to let the public know." Like, "You can't hold that. You need to be vigilant."
00:24:53
>> Yeah. They were like, "You know what? We're pretty sure there's a killer operating in the area, but this time
00:24:57
preying on young men." >> Yeah. >> In a press conference held after the discovery of the body parts, an LAPD
00:25:03
spokesperson told reporters, quote, "There may be more than one sex maniac loose in the area, but they had yet to
00:25:09
identify a motive for the murders and had no suspects." Now, just to go in, you know, broadly
00:25:16
speaking, the murder of gay men or men who authorities just assumed to be gay because they did a lot of that back
00:25:22
then. >> Yeah. >> Have not been pursued with the same kind of enthusiasm as straight victims or,
00:25:27
you know, like there's the missing white woman >> syndrome >> syndrome that happens. Also,
00:25:32
investigations into the murder of gay men have historically been kind of influenced by a lot of assumptions about
00:25:40
not the killer, but the victims. >> Yeah. And a lot of biases go into it a lot of time. It's just fact. Like you
00:25:47
can look back on it. We've covered a lot of cases like this. >> Ronald Dominique,
00:25:50
>> the Bayou Strangler we talked about. It's the same kind of thing. There's a lot of assumptions that go into it. a
00:25:55
lot of well whatever they got themselves into the it's the same thing that happens to sex workers a lot you know
00:26:01
>> and Ronald Dominique was before the or was after this think about the bias that
00:26:05
was going on in the 70s I'm sure >> yeah and the thing is with the victims in this case they represent when we go
00:26:12
through them various sexual identities across the spectrum like they're not locked into one
00:26:19
>> um I mean most people do you know >> yeah they weren't all gay they weren't all bisexual at least a couple of them
00:26:25
had were definitely didn't have any interest, you know, sexual interest in men at all.
00:26:30
>> Um, so weren't part of that spectrum. Um, but when it came to the four bodies
00:26:34
they now believe to be the work of the same killer, detectives Bill Tines and George Troop were pretty confident that
00:26:40
the victims, and I quote, >> no, >> had a one night stand with a boyfriend and things got out of hand.
00:26:49
Four of them and also got out of hand. Got out of hand. There's also just no evidence to literally no indication
00:26:58
>> whatsoever. First of all, you don't have a one night stand with a boyfriend. That's that doesn't usually work that
00:27:04
way. Those two things are usually mutually exclusive. >> All four of them had a one night stand
00:27:08
with a boyfriend. >> What? Two only two of them are identified. So, so far and so half of
00:27:14
them you don't know, but you're saying they had a one night stand with a boyfriend. And I'm sorry, things got out
00:27:19
of hand. Like I'm sorry, one of them was dismembered with a dull knife. >> There was a bag of human skin socks.
00:27:26
Yeah. In parts where they shouldn't. Like >> there was a bag of human skin part of
00:27:32
this case. >> That's beyond getting out of hand. >> Jesus Christ. >> Yeah. It just shows that that kind of
00:27:38
like flippant like just whatever. They had a nightstand and things. Wo. >> It's such a lack of tact that you're
00:27:44
like, who lets you talk to people? >> Who lets you say things that are going to be written down for?
00:27:51
>> Yeah. >> These are young guys. Like literally out of high school kind of young with like
00:27:56
And it's like [ __ ] Like you're just like flippantly being like, well, whatever. I don't even if that was the
00:28:02
case. Even if that was the case that it was a one night stand gone wrong, so they deserve it. Like what does that
00:28:08
mean? >> Well, and it's just so funny. that we shouldn't investigate it as far. No,
00:28:13
someone still did this to them and should be locked up for it. >> We're just going to be like, "Oh, yeah,
00:28:19
it's fine. >> It's the things getting out of hand for me." >> What's nice to me is that that theory
00:28:25
completely shat in their face very quickly. I'd fell apart on July 30th, 1973, when the body of 20-year-old
00:28:33
Ronald Weeb was discovered at the 7th Street exit near Seal Beach, almost exactly where Eddie Moore's body had
00:28:40
been discovered. >> Oh, okay. >> According to his mother, Ronald had left her house in um Los Alamidos around 8:30
00:28:47
p.m. on July 27th and was headed to the sportsman's lodge to have some drinks with friends. He was last seen at the
00:28:54
bar a little before 2:00 a.m. when he said goodbye to his friends and left. >> Okay. That night, Ronald had driven to
00:28:59
the bar, but got a flat tire along the way and parked near a tire store a short distance from the lodge. So, it's
00:29:06
assumed that he began walking or hitchhiking in order to get home. >> Mhm. >> Uh the following morning, when his
00:29:11
sister became worried and went out looking for him, she found his car parked near the tire store, the tire
00:29:16
obviously flat. Now, Ronald's body was discovered 2 days um 2 days later just off the highway. And to investigators on
00:29:24
the case, everything looked pretty familiar to what they had been seeing. Like Edward Moore, Ronald was fully
00:29:30
dressed, except he was missing his belt, shoes, and one sock. >> His pants were unbuttoned, and he was
00:29:37
exposed. There was also a quarter inch wide ligature mark around his neck. There was also superficial scratches all
00:29:44
over exposed parts of his body. He had clearly been pushed out of a moving vehicle. Um, an autopsy was performed
00:29:49
that day and it basically just confirmed the link between him and the other victims. Ronald's cause of death was
00:29:56
asphixxiation from ligature strangle strangulation and the Emmy estimated that he had been killed approximately 2
00:30:02
days earlier. So, it all lined up. >> Yeah. >> Um, that would place his time of death a
00:30:07
short time after he left the sportsman's lodge. Um, they determined that he had also been hit with a blunt instrument at
00:30:15
least two or three times hard enough to fracture his skull. >> Jesus. >> And there was ligature marks on his
00:30:20
wrists and ankles. This this next part really just disturbs me. The way the blood had settled
00:30:29
suggested that he had been suspended at the time of death. >> Wow. Suspended in the air. I don't think
00:30:37
we've talked about that since we talked about um Willie Pikton. >> Yeah, >> that's another [ __ ] level.
00:30:45
>> Yeah. >> of sadistic to determine that he had been suspended in the air when he was
00:30:50
killed is >> I don't know why. It's it's something about that part of it. It's all
00:30:57
obviously I don't think I need to say it, but >> it's [ __ ] you hear and [ __ ] you see in a
00:31:02
horror movie. >> It just doesn't feel like real life. Like you're like people do that to other
00:31:06
people? There's poor people. >> It's awful. >> Who is this [ __ ] dude Randy? >> You know, like some of the other
00:31:12
victims, there was evidence of sexual assault and the sock was found where it was found with the other ones. Um, this
00:31:18
time though, there was little evidence of anti-mortem torture or post-mortem mutilation. Um, there was no drugs found
00:31:25
in his system. His blood alcohol level was 0.02, far below the legal limit. Um, one of the more troubling aspects of the
00:31:33
crime scene was the position and location of where the body was found. It was obvious that the body had been
00:31:40
dragged or dropped on the road, but it was discovered laying right next to an ice plant, which is a kind of succulent
00:31:47
apparently common in California to Tines and Troop, which this is interesting. It
00:31:52
seemed very unlikely that a body pushed from a me moving vehicle would have landed in exactly that spot, not
00:31:58
disturbing the plant in any way. >> Yeah. >> They then considered that the killer may
00:32:03
have drove to the location and carried the body from the car, but we he would have had to move very quickly.
00:32:08
>> Yeah. >> And even though this man only um he only weighed about 130 lb, that much dead
00:32:15
weight would still be very difficult for one person to carry. So, in fact, it seemed more likely and
00:32:21
like alarmingly so that the killer had some help moving the body. >> This is when they first said, "Wait a
00:32:27
second. >> This doesn't just happen one person." >> I still have no idea. >> I still
00:32:33
>> during their investigation, Ty and Troop learned a lot about Ronald Weeb. Um, and
00:32:38
all of it seriously undermined their initial must be an angry one night stand boyfriend theory. At the time of his
00:32:45
death, Ronald was living with his father after becoming estranged from his wife.
00:32:49
>> Obviously, gay men can marry women. It has happened. It still happens. >> But in this case, he had become
00:32:56
estranged from his wife because he was having an affair with another woman. >> So, he was a straight man.
00:33:00
>> Yeah. And he was dating this other woman at the time of his death. >> Okay. >> So, he was presenting very straight. Um,
00:33:07
also no one who knew Ronald had even the slightest suspicion or inkling that he had any kind of romantic interest in
00:33:13
men. >> Okay? You know, and nothing about his life suggested that. >> It just wasn't the case here.
00:33:18
>> The details of his personal life changed the investigation a lot. Uh, previously
00:33:23
investigators assumed the killer was preying on members of the gay community or on what they were calling hustlers
00:33:29
who lived on the margins of the so of society. >> Oh my god. >> Yeah. Like people must be drug addicts.
00:33:35
must be people, you know, hustling and putting themselves in danger essentially.
00:33:39
>> It's crazy how much people hate gay people. Yeah. >> Like it's actually wild.
00:33:43
>> When you sit and you hear it and you think about it, it's like it has nothing
00:33:48
to do with you. So why do you give a [ __ ] >> That's the thing. >> I say it every time we cover a case like
00:33:54
this, but every time it just echoes in my brain. Why do you give a [ __ ] How does it affect you? All right. It
00:34:02
[ __ ] doesn't. It literally does not. >> It's so like gay panic to me is insane.
00:34:07
>> It's the weirdest way to live your life to be like worried about what consenting
00:34:13
adults are doing >> cuz all you like I literally don't care. >> It says so much more about you to be
00:34:19
freaked out and like up in arms about gay people than it does about the the gay person
00:34:23
>> people just living their lives >> cuz it's like y'all this is just about who we sleep with. So that's real
00:34:28
[ __ ] weird that you're that worried about that. >> Who gives a [ __ ] In fact, there was
00:34:32
while I was researching this case, there was like some quote from one of these investigators
00:34:38
and I brought it up to Mikey and Ash because I was like, "Am I crazy or does this just not matter?" And it was
00:34:44
talking about one of the victims and it was like, "Oh, and this person that they
00:34:46
interviewed, they had a sexual relationship, >> but it never made I was looking further
00:34:52
into it and I was like, >> why did they even like why would this matter?" >> Like I was like, this isn't pertinent
00:34:57
information. Am I being crazy or like it's too it's like kind of like a microaggression to be like oh like
00:35:03
>> gay people sleep with a like have a lot of relationships you know it's like no
00:35:07
>> yeah cuz it's like you you hear about interviews all the time they interview family friends acquaintances all that
00:35:13
stuff >> very little I mean I don't care straight gay by anything I don't care if those
00:35:20
two people slept together once or twice cuz it doesn't have an effect >> as long as they're if are they becoming
00:35:26
a suspect Sure, that might become pertinent. Absolutely. But if they're not, why the [ __ ] do I care if they're
00:35:33
just giving information about their their friend who maybe they had a relationship with,
00:35:37
>> but that's why it happens. It should be like a gay person will sleep with anybody.
00:35:42
>> Yeah. It's like that's the thing. It just doesn't >> and they have so many partners like,
00:35:46
"Shut the [ __ ] up." >> Yeah. So, yeah. It's just It's very strange to me. It's strange behavior.
00:35:51
It's strange that it's still a thing. >> It's It just grinds my gears. >> Yeah. That's the thing. It's like it's
00:35:56
very infuriating >> cuz it's like no these are just people who were murdered and we can just
00:36:01
investigate it as if these are people who were murdered >> and it's like I know we're talking about
00:36:05
something from the '7s so obviously it's like so different but it's really not because these are still things that that
00:36:12
that the community faces today and it's so irritating. >> Yeah, absolutely. Um, like we should
00:36:17
just investigate deaths of humans the same across humans, you know, to make sure that the people who are killing
00:36:24
humans are are not just flossing around. >> Keep your weird comments to yourself.
00:36:27
>> Yeah. Exactly. >> Um, so again, they were assuming that they this was, you know, victims were
00:36:34
only part of the gay community or like they said quote unquote hustlers who lived on the margins of the community.
00:36:41
>> Truly unreal. But now they had to consider the potential victim pool was much larger, including any young man who
00:36:49
seemed at least even slightly susceptible to whatever roost the killer was using to get his victims alone. Cuz
00:36:55
remember, he might not be luring them in being like, "Hey, want to fuck?" >> Yeah.
00:37:00
>> I think that's the assumption that these like idiots were making at first. They
00:37:03
were just like, "Well, that has to be it." And it's like, "No, maybe he just offered them a ride."
00:37:07
>> Yeah. And then did awful. guy had like Ronald had a flat tire. >> Yeah. >> He could have easily been lured in with,
00:37:15
"Hey, I can drive you to this place or I can drop you off down the road." Like, >> it's just wild. Unfortunately, again,
00:37:21
there was very little evidence collected at this dump site, and no one had seen or heard from Ronald since he left the
00:37:27
bar that that night. So, the case was almost kind of cold from the start. >> Wow. with nothing to go on,
00:37:32
investigators had to just kind of like wait until the next victim was discovered, which is the most horrifying
00:37:38
thing I've ever heard. >> Yeah. >> Um, and this would take at least 6 months, actually. But detectives were
00:37:44
pretty sure it was going to happen. Like even through that 6 months, they were like, he's not going to stop.
00:37:49
>> It's actually crazy that it took 6 months after this whole everything you've said happened so quickly.
00:37:53
>> But now when we look back, that scorecard that he had, quote unquote scorecard,
00:37:57
>> victims in between, >> there might have been more in between that just weren't linked to him. and
00:38:01
like maybe not even >> maybe he traveled, maybe he went different places. Like who knows?
00:38:05
>> That's so scary. >> Now, on December 29th, 1973, hikers in the San Bernardino Mountains discovered
00:38:11
the body of 23-year-old Cal State art student Vincent Cruz Mestus in a ravine near the base of the mountain. It was
00:38:18
immediately clear to investigators that Vincent was killed by the same man. He was fully dressed except for his shoes
00:38:25
and he was missing one sock. According to the medical examiner, the cause of death was asphyxiation. But according to
00:38:31
the medical examiner, the cause of death was asphyxiation. And like the others, the victim had been tortured before
00:38:38
being killed and his body was mutilated after death, which that was a little different from the other ones. Um, in
00:38:44
addition to the sock that had been found, um, there was, and this is awful, there was a pencil or large toothpick
00:38:51
pushed into his urethra. >> Oh my god. which the medical examiner believed happened before death.
00:38:59
Oh my god. His hands had also been cut off and placed into plastic bags while he was alive or
00:39:09
>> the wounds had been covered with plastic bags. >> Oh, the hands have never been found by
00:39:16
the way. >> Oh my god. Um yeah, also the medical examiner said that um in addition to the
00:39:23
various injuries, it looked like the killer had shaved his face and head after he had murdered him. Ew. Ew.
00:39:29
Because that's so creepy. >> Yeah. >> There like what is the pathology behind that? Like when people when killers will
00:39:36
wash their victims or set them up or dress them. It's so >> there's many different pathologies
00:39:43
for each different thing. It's I hate it. Uh, according to friends, um, Vincent was, you know, he was young. He
00:39:50
was like adorable. He was slightly naive and was known to be bisexual. >> Well, he was young.
00:39:56
>> We're all [ __ ] naive when we're young. At 23, I was the most naive I've ever been.
00:40:00
>> Exactly. In fact, Vincent had been picked up by police a few times for um sex work around the apartment he shared
00:40:07
with a roommate. So, it didn't seem unreasonable that he would go off with a stranger. That's what they were kind of
00:40:12
linking that to. Yeah. Particularly if there was some transaction that had happened.
00:40:17
>> Vincent was last seen by his roommate 3 days before his body was found. >> According to the roommate, Vincent had
00:40:22
said he was quote going into the mountains to do some drawing. >> Oh. >> And he had taken his sketch pad and
00:40:28
pencils with him. >> Stop it. He just wanted to get away and relax. >> Exactly. Those items weren't found with
00:40:34
the body and have never been found. Um, in fact, there was very little evidence collected in that ravine and nothing
00:40:39
that would point to the killer. Like he was not leaving anything at these scenes.
00:40:45
>> No. >> Now, nearly half of all murder victims are killed by someone they know.
00:40:50
>> Yeah. >> Um, but the rate is all like very much higher for women. >> Um, these are the cases that are pretty
00:40:57
easily and eventually solved because there's some evidence that's going to lead to that connection. You know,
00:41:02
>> in cases where the victim's killed by a stranger, though, it is so much [ __ ]
00:41:07
harder than anyone. >> There's no connection. It can be anyone in the entire world
00:41:11
>> and he's not leaving anything. >> So the Exactly. So those kind of cases almost always are solved because of
00:41:18
luck. >> Yeah. >> Just sheer luck. >> No, it's true. >> Um and in the case of the murdered men
00:41:22
in Southern California, investigators just weren't having that luck. It wasn't happening. They were getting left
00:41:27
nothing. There was no connection between these guys, so there was nothing to go on.
00:41:32
>> Yeah. >> Now, because there was similarities in all the cases, investigators were
00:41:36
confident that Vincent's case was connected to the other killed men. But whoever was killing these men again was
00:41:43
not leaving any witnesses, any evidence, nothing. And 6 months passed with pretty
00:41:48
little progress in the case again. Then on June 2nd, 1974, the body of 20-year-old Malcolm Little was
00:41:55
discovered sitting propped up against a mosquite tree along Highway 86 just south of Sultan Sea.
00:42:02
>> Oh. >> Now, despite being more than 150 miles from the area where the other bodies
00:42:08
were found, 150 miles away, >> very far, >> his body bore many of the signatures and
00:42:15
mutilation investigators had come to recognize from this killer. He had been strangled. His genitals had been cut
00:42:21
off. This is awful. There was a mosquite branch inserted into his rectum. Oh. Now, at first, investigators questioned
00:42:32
whether Malcolm Little's killer was the same man who' killed the others in LA because of the the distance.
00:42:38
>> Yeah. >> But as soon as they started interviewing friends and family, everything started
00:42:42
piecing together. Malcolm was an out-of work truck driver from Selma, Alabama, who just arrived in California a week
00:42:49
earlier. >> Oh my god. >> To visit his brother in Long Beach, not far from where the killer usually
00:42:54
hunted. >> And he was just visiting his brother. >> But not long after he had arrived in
00:42:59
California, his girlfriend called from Alabama, pissed that he had left without taking her with him.
00:43:05
>> Oh. >> Uh, yeah. So, the girlfriend demanded that he come back to Alabama and they
00:43:09
could go to California together >> when he was on his way. and Little explained that he didn't have enough
00:43:13
money to get a bus ticket back and two additional tickets to get them back to California, but she was like, "No, you
00:43:19
got to come back and get me." So, he was like, "Okay." So, he agreed. >> So, on May 27th, Bill, who's Malcolm's
00:43:26
um brother, dropped him at the intersection of the Garden Grove and Santa Ana Freeways, where he intended to
00:43:32
hitchhike his way back to Alabama cuz remember, it's the 70s. >> Yeah. Everybody was doing it. This was
00:43:37
the last time Bill saw his brother alive. That's so sad that he was so committed.
00:43:41
>> Yeah, he was going back. Yeah. >> Malcolm Little's cause of death was determined to be asphixxiation from
00:43:47
strangulation and the majority of the mutilation had, I guess thankfully, occurred postmortem.
00:43:53
After identifying this victim and verifying some of the information, Malcolm Little was added to the growing
00:43:58
list of victims. But if detectives were thinking that, you know, something about
00:44:03
this latest victim was going to break the case, they were very disappointed. >> Yeah. Uh like the other cases, no clues
00:44:11
found at the place he was found. >> Nothing. >> Um he had only been in the state for a
00:44:15
little, you know, under a week at that point, too. So there were no leads, nothing that was going to point to any
00:44:21
kind of connection. >> This time, investigators wouldn't have to wait long, though, for another victim
00:44:26
to be discovered. On June 22nd, just a few weeks after Malcolm Little's body was discovered, the nude body of
00:44:33
18-year-old Roger Dickerson was found at the end of a dead-end road in Laguna Beach.
00:44:38
>> Oh. >> Near a private golf club, >> which is a very affluent area. >> Yeah, I'm sure we all know.
00:44:44
>> Yeah, exactly. Dickerson had been sexually assaulted. There were bite marks on his genitals.
00:44:50
Um, and his cause of death was asphixxiation from strangulation. This time though there was something new that
00:44:56
hadn't been a factor in the other cases. In addition to a small amount of alcohol
00:45:01
in his system, there was also the presence of dazipam which is the generic form of valium.
00:45:06
>> Mhm. >> Once they identified this victim who turned out to be US Marine, a US Marine
00:45:12
stationed at Camp Pendleton. >> Oh. >> Detectives got to work interviewing, you know, associates, friends, family. And
00:45:19
this is the second person from Camp Pendleton. >> Second one. According to his fellow
00:45:22
Marines at the base, Dickerson had just been granted liberty, which is an authorized absence from the base, I
00:45:28
guess it's called. Like you can go out on your own, >> um for a short period, and he wanted to
00:45:32
visit Los Angeles. On the night he went missing, um he and several other Marines
00:45:37
had went out to Buds Cove Bar in Sanh San Clemente where he told them of his plan to go to LA for a few days.
00:45:43
>> Yeah. >> According to those friends, he had found someone to drive him to LA, but he
00:45:48
didn't mention that person's name. M that was the last time any of them saw him alive. A little over a month later
00:45:54
on August 3rd, another body was discovered. >> Jeez. This time found in an oil field in
00:46:00
Long Beach. >> Oh, that's chilling. >> That morning, oil field workers arrived for their shift and discovered the fully
00:46:07
clothed body of 25-year-old Thomas Lee. Like some of the more recent victims, Lee's body had been dumped in a less
00:46:14
obvious location cuz before they were like right in the open. >> Yeah. It's like shock value.
00:46:20
>> Yeah. And he was placed at the bottom of a steep incline, though clearly still in
00:46:23
an area where it would be found kind of quickly, but still a little further out.
00:46:27
>> Yeah. >> Lee had a high blood alcohol level at the time of his death, and the cause of
00:46:31
death was listed as a asphixia from um a strangulation. >> Upon further investigation, detectives
00:46:38
learned that Thomas Lee worked as a waiter at Princess Louise, which was a popular San Pedro restaurant. He was
00:46:44
also a regular um at at area bars like Lil Lucy in Long Beach and The Diamond in Wilmington.
00:46:51
>> Both areas were places where the killer had found other victims. Lee was also
00:46:56
known among the the gay community as one of the more active cruisers in the area.
00:47:02
>> And they a lot of people they talked to said he was he was a one night stand guy. He was he had a lot of
00:47:08
>> a lot of friends, you know. >> He was hanging out. >> Yeah, he was hanging out at the back. He
00:47:11
>> was living. uh that is, you know, he's something he's allowed to do. He's a consenting adult and as he's doing it
00:47:17
with other consenting adults. >> Live your damn life. >> But unfortunately, this would make him a
00:47:21
perfect target for this killer. Right. >> The last time anyone had seen Lee was around closing time the night before his
00:47:27
body was discovered on August 3rd. >> Investigators had barely time to blow their nose when on August 12th, another
00:47:37
body was found. >> Jesus, >> this is days. >> Yeah. >> Hours. Really? Yeah. >> This time, this body was found at the
00:47:44
bottom of an embankment off the Ozo Parkway in Orange County. Although the victim, 23-year-old Gary Wayne Cordova,
00:47:51
is considered to be one of the victims in this case, it's a little confusing why exactly. According to his friends,
00:47:58
Gary had said he was moving from Pasadena and was going to hitchhike to Oceanside.
00:48:02
>> Mhm. >> He was fully dressed when he was found. I think this is probably why they
00:48:06
started to connect him. He didn't have any shoes or socks on. >> Okay. and his cause of death was
00:48:11
determined to be acute intoxication from drugs and alcohol, >> specifically dasopam.
00:48:17
>> So maybe from the one of the last victims. >> It's believed apparently that like this
00:48:21
is the theory that they came up with that connects him to this. They believe that the killer picked Gary up while he
00:48:27
was hitchhiking cuz he was >> and intended to assault and kill him like the others, but Gary began
00:48:32
overdosing before that could happen. >> Oh, >> so that is a possibility. He is counted
00:48:36
among the victims. >> Interesting. Uh, the final victim discovered that year was found on
00:48:41
November 29th. It was shortly after 400 p.m. when Irvine police received a call about a body found near the San Diego
00:48:49
freeway. When they got there, investigators found the body of 19-year-old James Dale Reeves about 25
00:48:56
ft from the road, not far. Um, he was clothed in just a blood soaked t-shirt and was laying face down between two
00:49:03
trees just a few feet from the rest of his clothing. All of which were soaked in blood. Although the medical examiner
00:49:10
wasn't able to identify a cause of death. >> Oh. >> He suspected suffocation. Also,
00:49:18
when the body was discovered, the killer had inserted a 4ft tree branch. >> 4 foot?
00:49:26
>> Yes. a 4foot tree branch. Yeah, I told you this is just horrific in every way. It gets like it gets worse
00:49:39
and worse. How is that even possible? >> Yeah, it's awful. And he's like, again, he's
00:49:46
19 years old. These are like kids. >> That's that's like beyond brutal, >> you know. Now, according to his family,
00:49:53
James had asked to borrow the family car on the afternoon of November 27th. He drove down to the newly formed Gay
00:50:00
Community Church in Costa Mesa, where he had Thanksgiving dinner with other members of the community.
00:50:06
>> Then he drove over to Ripples, which is a popular bar in the Belmont Shores neighborhood. When investigators
00:50:12
searched the area, they found the car was still in the parking lot of Ripples, indicating that James had been picked up
00:50:17
at the bar. Yeah. likely by the killer who dumped his body on the highway. >> It will never not be strange to hear
00:50:25
what people do in their last hours and to to picture that in your head. >> Yeah. You just had Thanksgiving with
00:50:30
your friends at the newly formed church for your community, >> right? >> And you have no idea after celebrating
00:50:37
what was probably like a nice we just formed this church together, we have this community, this is our Thanksgiving
00:50:44
together. And then to have this happen and just to think like obviously >> nobody has any idea that this is
00:50:51
happening and they're thinking about their plans for the next couple hours or their plans for the next
00:50:55
>> couple days. >> It will never it will never cease to like [ __ ] me up. >> It will never.
00:51:01
>> Now in their statement to the press, investigators hedged their bets on this one. this they said. So JJ um detective
00:51:10
JJ Hurlbert told reporters, "We're not necessarily saying he's homosexual, but he certainly prays on homosexuals and
00:51:17
engages in homosexual activities with his victims." So they're like, "We're not like saying the killer's gay. We're
00:51:24
not saying he's not gay cuz he sexually assaults these guys." So like, but like >> wow. I just I'm like way ahead on that
00:51:33
one. Like we're not saying he's necessarily gay, but like he might be. It's like, thank you. That's so helpful.
00:51:39
>> I'm not sure about all that. >> Thank you for that. >> Now, after so many murders and so little
00:51:44
evidence, investigators were looking for any help, which I understand that they have nothing to go on. Um, and so they
00:51:51
started turning to the gay community to be like, "Can you help us identify who this could be because he might be
00:51:57
praying in these certain areas?" But the gay community was very reluctant to speak with detectives for obvious
00:52:04
reasons. >> JJ Hbert said, "We can't find anyone who can put the victim and the killer
00:52:08
together. However, we feel there must have been cases of someone being picked up by this guy who got away and just
00:52:14
hasn't come forward." Which is very possible. Yeah. But they might feel, you know, they might feel like ashamed about
00:52:22
it. They might feel scared. They might feel like they're they're going to be pinned for it for somehow or in trouble
00:52:28
somehow. >> Yeah. >> Cuz it's not like they haven't seen >> this happen a million times to their
00:52:33
community. So, of course, they're not going to run and be like, "Let me help." >> Yeah. Now, unfortunately for the
00:52:38
detectives, you know, and the other investigators, they had just formed a newly formed task force for this, but no
00:52:44
one came forward with any suspicious members of the community or providing tips on anything that they had seen,
00:52:50
>> which also there's a there's a possibility no one saw anything that they figured was worth noting, right, or
00:52:55
had been picked up by this guy and let out. He might not let anyone go. So for George Troop and the other
00:53:02
detectives on the case, it was obvious these were the victims of the same killer obviously, but it seemed
00:53:07
impossible that someone could commit so many murders and not leave any evidence behind or be seen by anybody ever.
00:53:17
>> Equally frustrating was the fact that while they were struggling to make progress, the body count was just rising
00:53:23
and less time was happening between discovery victims. >> Yeah. So, the new year comes and they
00:53:29
immediately get a call for a newly discovered body in the killer's hunting ground.
00:53:34
>> Oh no. >> This time, a teenage boy, 17-year-old John Williams Laris was last seen
00:53:41
boarding a bus carrying a pair of roller skates. >> Oh, >> yeah. The day before his nude body was
00:53:47
discovered, January 4th, 1975. He was floating in the surf off Sunset Beach. Oh. According to the bus driver,
00:53:55
Jon got off the bus at a stop near Ripples Bar, where previous victim James Reeves disappeared from a month earlier.
00:54:02
Like many of the other victims, Laris had been sexually assaulted, and there was a foreign object, which was later
00:54:08
identified as a wooden surveyor stake inserted into his anus, and he had been strangled to death.
00:54:15
>> Jesus Christ. 17 years old. >> 17 years old. In addition to the discovery of another victim, what was
00:54:23
probably most alarming was that there were drag marks in the sand where the victim where the killer had dragged the
00:54:29
body to the water and alongside those >> were two sets of footprints. >> Oh, [ __ ] that.
00:54:36
>> Yep. As some investigators had suspected already, the killer likely had an accomplice.
00:54:41
>> Yeah. I mean, at this point, that's just a fact. >> At the very least, someone was helping
00:54:46
him dispose of bodies. >> Yeah. you know, >> an I mean, that's an accomplice. Yeah.
00:54:50
Unfortunately, detectives had barely started to even contemplate the implications of this, that there's a
00:54:56
second set of footprints. Less than two weeks later, another body is discovered.
00:55:00
>> It almost makes, and obviously, this is not the case, but it makes you feel like
00:55:03
with two people, it would be easier to find them. You know, >> you would think, I don't know why it
00:55:07
just more people to [ __ ] up, you know, exactly. >> Humans are fallible. So, you would think
00:55:12
with two of them, it's >> two people to turn on each other. >> Yeah. On the morning of January 17th,
00:55:17
construction workers arriving to a job site next to the Golden Sales Hotel off the Pacific Coast Highway discovered the
00:55:24
body of 21-year-old Craig Jonitis. In this case, he was fully clothed except he was missing his shoes and socks.
00:55:31
>> There was a dark red liature mark around his neck indicating that he'd been strangled, but there was very little
00:55:37
evidence found at the scene. Nothing that could help them trace anything back. And despite the lack of forensic
00:55:42
evidence or witness statements for Troop and the other detectives, they were they
00:55:47
were like there's a profile that can be taken out of this at the very least, >> right?
00:55:52
>> With three exceptions, all of the victims were gay or had some sexual interest in men that was like discovered
00:55:58
in their background. So, it was fair to assume they'd gone with the killer willingly perhaps. Yeah. Like at least
00:56:04
some of the time. >> And he definitely had a type. Young white men with a medium build. They all
00:56:10
were. It was also obvious that rather than cover up the crimes, the killer appeared to be leaving his victims in
00:56:16
places where they would be discovered by either police or the public. >> Mhm. You know, on the side of the
00:56:22
highway, public beaches, like that kind of thing, near golf courses, >> right? >> During the investigation, something else
00:56:28
occurred to Troopines that may have revealed something about the killer's background. Actually, in many of the
00:56:33
cases, a sock had been inserted into the victim's anus. >> Yeah. Similarly, many of the victims
00:56:39
were discovered with white tissue either on their body or inserted into their nostrils. Oh, at first they initially
00:56:48
took this, they didn't even reveal this at first and then later they when they did they talked about how this they
00:56:53
believe this could have been some kind of like you know fetish >> or some kind of signature
00:56:59
>> but eventually troop made an interesting association with this. It turned out
00:57:04
that plugging orififices in that manner was something commonly done in the military in circumstances where a
00:57:11
serviceman has been killed but won't be immediately transferred to a hospital or
00:57:15
morg because investigators believe the killer had used this to keep the bodies from purging while they were being
00:57:22
transported to a dump site. >> I don't I don't It's apparently like a thing. Okay.
00:57:34
>> Yeah. So, it gave them at least something that they could at least I know there's no words for it, but it
00:57:39
gave them something that they could touch upon to say >> maybe he knows of this practice, which
00:57:44
would indicate >> and it narrows down a little. Yeah. It's it's that's literally all they have.
00:57:50
That's literally >> all they have. >> Holy [ __ ] And I also I feel like either way it's sexually rooted in nature. Like
00:57:58
he's I think he's getting like for him he's getting some kind of kicks from that. Yeah, for sure. It's I'm
00:58:04
interested in like the tissue in the nose. >> Yeah, that's interesting. That's an
00:58:08
interesting one. >> But the other >> Yeah. >> is different. >> So to the local investigators on the
00:58:12
case, the idea of a killer, you know, systematically choosing, killing, and dumping victims was a relatively new and
00:58:19
foreign concept actually. Um it's not that California obviously didn't have its fair share of, you know, serial
00:58:25
killers. Um but it was the way that this killer was behaving that was new to them. Like, you know, they had Charles
00:58:33
Manson who like reveled in the adoration of his cult members. Zodiac Killer sought fame more than anything else.
00:58:40
>> This killer seemed to be pretty highly intelligent in the worst kind of way. >> And knew exactly what he was doing. And
00:58:48
maybe he didn't know why he was doing it, but he knew what he was doing. He was a hunter. He was getting more
00:58:53
skilled each time. and he was leaving nothing. While getting the attention, he was also
00:59:01
leaving absolutely nothing for them to go on. Knowing that they wouldn't catch their killer without some kind of
00:59:07
insight into the psychology here, the task force s reached out to the FBI and uh the behavioral analysis unit was
00:59:15
doing at this time like super innovative work in studying killers and other violent predators. Um go watch Mind
00:59:22
Hunter. Yes. Uh, in his profile of the killer, FBI agent Howard Tetton categorized the suspect as a lust
00:59:29
killer, someone who's whose periodic murders were usually committed to satisfy a sexual urge.
00:59:35
>> Yeah. >> Another analyst on the team, Dr. E. Manel Patterson from the California
00:59:40
College of Medicine, described the killer in a way. They got something out of these profiles, but this is a wild
00:59:50
description. >> Okay, I'm getting ready. described the killer as a man who quote desires to
00:59:54
feel masculine and veriral but does not feel masculine. He vicariously identifies with the masculine image of
01:00:01
the victim. Sod sodomizing the victim affirms that he is a potent aggressive verile heterosexual male. So he's
01:00:09
essentially saying this is a guy who hates himself, >> okay, >> and wants to feel masculine but isn't.
01:00:15
>> So he's like taking masculinity from his victims. >> He's kind of assuming that this is a gay
01:00:20
killer as well. So, he's like putting it in there that like this is obviously a gay man who doesn't feel masculine and
01:00:27
feels masculine by taking masculinity away from other men. >> Okay. >> Which is just like a It's a strange way
01:00:35
of saying it. >> Yeah. >> Um it's got a lot of assumptions in there. >> Yeah. Lots of implications there.
01:00:41
>> Some some kind of bizarre way of looking at it. >> Frankly, it wasn't as bad as I was
01:00:45
expecting. >> No, it could have been way worse. There was parts of it that were worse that I I
01:00:50
don't choose to say. >> Love that. >> But we did. What I wanted to take from this is like from those two different
01:00:57
analyses, we got a few things from them. One, there was likely more victims than
01:01:02
were known to investigators, >> which we confirm later, >> which we do. Two, the killer felt
01:01:07
absolutely no sense of guilt or remorse because he's a lost killer. He doesn't give a [ __ ]
01:01:11
>> Yep. >> Three, it was highly unlikely he would stop on his own valition. >> Yeah. No. I mean, clearly not.
01:01:16
>> Yeah, he can't stop. The urges are too much. Now, the insight provided by the
01:01:21
profilers and psychologists was of some value, obviously, to the task force, but
01:01:26
it didn't really do anything to point them in the direction of a [ __ ] suspect, which is what they've been
01:01:31
trying to do this whole time. >> Yeah. >> In the meantime, within a couple of months of murdering Craig Jonitis, the
01:01:37
killer was back out on the streets looking for another victim already, and he's going to find one.
01:01:43
>> Mhm. And that's where we're going to end for part one because >> because we all need a collective minute.
01:01:48
>> The amount of men who have died in part one >> and so >> in horrific, violent, just
01:01:55
>> graphic, >> atrocious ways. >> Yeah. >> Is something I think we need to take a
01:02:00
minute from. >> Yeah. >> Um because part two is going to pick right up there with some more victims
01:02:07
because we are not done with this piece of [ __ ] >> unfortunately. And we are going to get
01:02:11
into how they discover who Randy Craft is. >> Okay. Love that. I love the part where
01:02:17
they're apprehended. >> We are going to get there. >> The part where they're not stresses me
01:02:20
out so much. >> So, we will get there. Um, but yeah, this is a real This is a hard one. This
01:02:25
tough one. >> Yeah. >> Because of the era it happened in. >> Mhm. >> Like for so many ways, obviously because
01:02:32
of the brutality of the entire thing, but also because of the era it happened in and the way that things were talked
01:02:37
about in the press and by investigators. It's just there's a lot to unpack to like chew on while you're learning all
01:02:44
the details of all the brutality that happened to these poor men >> to hear how it was described and certain
01:02:50
assumptions that are made about victims mostly >> is like what makes it really tough to
01:02:55
swallow. That's why it's just like I got to take a minute. >> Absolutely. Yeah, I agree.
01:02:59
>> Yeah. So, we'll we'll be back with a lot more. >> All right. >> It's rough. We'll see you then because
01:03:06
we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it weird but not so weird that you don't come back for part two, honey.
01:03:13
>> Hey yo, bye >> bye bye. [Music] [Music] [Music]

Badges

This episode stands out for the following:

  • 85
    Most intense
  • 80
    Most shocking
  • 80
    Most controversial
  • 75
    Most heartbreaking

Episode Highlights

  • More Episodes Coming Your Way
    Get ready for an extra bonus episode each month, free for everyone!
    “Every month there'll be one week with three episodes in it.”
    @ 03m 20s
    August 14, 2025
  • The Scorecard Killer
    Randy Craft, known as the Scorecard Killer, terrorized Southern California in the 70s and 80s.
    “He kidnapped, tortured, and murdered at least 16 men and boys.”
    @ 07m 34s
    August 14, 2025
  • The Mystery of the Unidentified Victim
    A young man's body is discovered, but his identity remains a mystery.
    “No one has claimed him. That's so sad.”
    @ 17m 51s
    August 14, 2025
  • Unidentified Victim
    Detectives struggle to identify a young man found dead with signs of trauma.
    “It seemed surprising to the officers that somebody would disappear and not be reported.”
    @ 19m 53s
    August 14, 2025
  • Dismembered Remains
    Body parts of a young man are discovered in plastic bags, raising alarm.
    “Just a bag of human skin.”
    @ 22m 29s
    August 14, 2025
  • Suspended at Death
    Ronald Weeb's autopsy reveals he was likely suspended when he was killed.
    “It's [ __ ] you hear and [ __ ] you see in a horror movie.”
    @ 30m 59s
    August 14, 2025
  • Victim's Identity Crisis
    Investigators realize Ronald Weeb was living a straight life, challenging their assumptions.
    “The details of his personal life changed the investigation a lot.”
    @ 33m 20s
    August 14, 2025
  • The Discovery of Vincent Cruz Mestus
    Vincent Cruz Mestus, a 23-year-old art student, was found murdered in the San Bernardino Mountains, revealing a pattern of violence against young men.
    “It was immediately clear to investigators that Vincent was killed by the same man.”
    @ 38m 11s
    August 14, 2025
  • The Horrific Murder of James Dale Reeves
    19-year-old James Dale Reeves was discovered with a tree branch inserted into his body, highlighting the brutality of the killer.
    “This is just horrific in every way.”
    @ 49m 34s
    August 14, 2025
  • Discovery of Victims
    The investigation reveals a pattern of young men being targeted and brutally murdered.
    “There were drag marks in the sand where the victim was dragged to the water.”
    @ 54m 24s
    August 14, 2025
  • Profile of the Killer
    FBI profilers describe the killer as a lust killer with a deep-seated self-hatred.
    “He desires to feel masculine and virile but does not feel masculine.”
    @ 59m 52s
    August 14, 2025
  • The Brutality of the Crimes
    The horrific details of the murders leave a lasting impact on the investigators.
    “The brutality of the entire thing is tough to swallow.”
    @ 01h 02m 34s
    August 14, 2025

Episode Quotes

  • Hold on to your serotonin.
    Randy Kraft: The Scorecard Killer (Part 1) | Morbid | Podcast
  • That's so sad. It's like why has nobody come forward and claimed this person?
    Randy Kraft: The Scorecard Killer (Part 1) | Morbid | Podcast
  • That's beyond getting out of hand.
    Randy Kraft: The Scorecard Killer (Part 1) | Morbid | Podcast
  • It's actually crazy that it took 6 months after this whole everything happened so quickly.
    Randy Kraft: The Scorecard Killer (Part 1) | Morbid | Podcast
  • It will never cease to like [ __ ] me up.
    Randy Kraft: The Scorecard Killer (Part 1) | Morbid | Podcast
  • This is a hard one. This is a tough one.
    Randy Kraft: The Scorecard Killer (Part 1) | Morbid | Podcast

Key Moments

  • New Beginnings00:43
  • Chilling Details13:14
  • Unidentified Victim19:50
  • Dismembered Remains22:21
  • Identity Crisis33:20
  • Community Reluctance52:00
  • Victim Discovery53:44
  • Killer's Accomplice54:39

Words per Minute Over Time

Vibes Breakdown