00:00:06
hey weirdos I'm Ash and I'm Elena and this is [Music] morbid it's morbid morbid in the morning
00:00:29
kind of hey yo it's like the late morning yeah almost afternoon yeah how are you what's up I'm good it's it's
00:00:36
Ghost movie week oh so I'm excited that's pretty exciting are you guys going to see it who's going to see the
00:00:44
ghost movie what is it called right here right now oh yes I knew that hell yeah cuz we've been singing in the Pod lab
00:00:50
right here I know not even the the ghost version no which is funny which is funny
00:00:57
but yeah I'm very excited um I'm very I want to what happens to Papa I'm excited
00:01:01
for you this is like I haven't seen you this into a band since Lincoln Park yeah
00:01:07
it's true I feel like your your love for Lincoln Park is yeah it's translated into this yeah I used to love Lincoln
00:01:13
Park Cher was my guy yeah cuz I remember when you got the you got like some like
00:01:18
movie set for Christmas yes like the behind the scenes of like their tour yeah and this kind of like this new
00:01:24
right here right now coming out reminds me of that yeah you're right it is a little bit it's like the updated version
00:01:29
yeah yeah I'm excited I'm excited for and John's excited cuz remember in case you weren't here for the beginning of
00:01:36
the lore John's the one that introduced me to ghost he found them yeah out of nowhere a couple years ago on like a
00:01:41
Jimmy Fallon show Jimmy Kimmel it was um it's a I like actually it's like a sports podcast he listens to one of the
00:01:49
guys it it's a huge sports fan or ghost fan he sports fan too yeah but he's a ghost fan and he talks about them he
00:01:57
like talked about them a lot and John was like oh I'm just going to check these guys out so then he just started
00:02:01
listening and he was like holy [ __ ] wait was the first performance that you saw
00:02:05
from like a Jimmy show yeah he showed the first like live performance he showed me was the
00:02:12
um oh my God what's his name Jimmy Kimmel Jimmy Kimmel that's what you're talking about yeah okay I was like am I
00:02:17
insane that's not where he found them though got it got it he just showed me that performance cuz he was like Hey
00:02:22
look at this and they were in like full like call me little sunshine Garb yeah so I was like this is as soon as the the
00:02:31
camera panned over to them and I was like I'm sorry what I was like this is the greatest thing I've ever seen tell
00:02:37
me everything and he was like I knew you would love this within a week she was hooked well I mean within that moment
00:02:41
she was hooked but within that week I think you would listen to like every album every single album and John and I
00:02:47
sat there for like hours and listen to albums over and over again all the albums in fact I think when Tobias was
00:02:55
on I mentioned that and he kind of like roasted me for a second was like considering the album's only like this
00:02:59
this many minutes that's shocking I was like I listen to all of them okay okay every single one I was like okay I'm
00:03:05
just trying to tell you I'm a fan I'm a fanal I'm a falow I'm a f i like that you're you're a fbias bias
00:03:17
that's good it's more fun as it goes but yeah I'm very excited about it I hope everybody else is really excited about
00:03:23
it yay and we can talk about it afterwards so there's going to be a lot to talk about everyone like all the
00:03:30
theories that people have come up with and now I know it's been so fun to see like like I've gone into like the ghost
00:03:35
subreddit and they have such cool theories like people are really like it's very interesting to read in there
00:03:41
what people think is going to happen you can find cool [ __ ] on there sometimes oh
00:03:44
yeah for sure that's the thing I was like oh this is I love this this is the complete opposite like this is the
00:03:50
antithesis of ghost I would say I've been really into Survivor lately so there's a lot of Survivor
00:03:57
subreddits too oh I've got into yeah and just like people can be really like fascinating and they have good theories
00:04:04
and you're like huh all right exactly they talk about the gameplay strategies and that kind of thing yeah I could
00:04:09
never ever go on Survivor no I would die within a minute no no I no part of me has enough hubris to say that I would
00:04:19
survive even I wouldn't survive the boat ride out to the island I could do the boat ride and or the helicopter ride but
00:04:27
as soon as I had to start exerting myself no and then like the they all obviously
00:04:34
like the first night you just like figure out what you can do for a like tent kind of thing like you don't get a
00:04:39
tent so they make a shelter but they all wake up covered in like the gnarliest bug bites you have ever seen in your
00:04:47
life no it's wild nothing about it is something I not one part of me believes I could do it couldn't even make the
00:04:54
trip out I couldn't not like they'll they'll eat like one portion of rice per day I'm too hungry I I'm a baby I need
00:05:02
four hour feedings babe snacks I need my co my little drinky drink I need my snacky I need my
00:05:10
treat I need my ollipop yeah I get real um I turn into a big con when I'm hungry
00:05:16
who doesn't you know who I get hangry and I'm not great at group projects no I'm terrible because and that's the
00:05:25
other thing I end up I'm like a control freak so I end up taking every I'm like I'll just do it because I can do it
00:05:31
better and then I would end up dying because it's not even me being like I need to do it I just like working
00:05:38
independently hey you know some people are like that yeah and that's okay yeah yeah so that's how we feel about ghost
00:05:45
and why we wouldn't be good contestants on Survivor you know just a little little quick little intro of what's
00:05:50
going on just random we don't do these these longer ones all the time anymore no but people like them they do I think
00:05:56
we got shamed out of them for a little while yeah but now we we realize that like you know it's okay every once in a
00:06:03
while yeah just yeah go for it but anyway go for it if you have something to say you know what that's the thing
00:06:09
we're not just talking have we had some stuff to say to tell you Survivor and ghost is happening in a couple days so
00:06:16
you know it's timely B exciting [ __ ] things okay it is but yeah I have a I have an interesting case today I hadn't
00:06:24
heard of this one and then I was like doing some research for like some old time year cases cuz where just having a
00:06:29
lot of fun with those lately oh yeah they they're a lot they're a lot more um they they feel better to research they
00:06:36
feel better to research they also like the some of the details that like you'll end up finding and then you kind of go
00:06:42
down a rabbit hole random that's the thing this one in and of itself is just a Wy story from start to finish so it
00:06:49
captivated me and I hope it captivates you so it's um the society gang killing is how it's known yeah I don't you know
00:06:56
it sounds familiar but I think I I think it's it's just like that's that is a cool like this is not a cool thing like
00:07:03
the case no but the tile the name sounds like a movie you know like it's very cinematic that title yeah so I think I
00:07:10
maybe have like thought I heard it before but I actually haven't they probably honestly this could be a m like
00:07:15
it's not but it could be yeah so it starts with Phil kener and he was born in I think it's madil Oklahoma you can
00:07:21
yell at me if it's not M he was born on July 26 1915 he was the youngest child of Franklin and Lily kener H it was
00:07:30
clear from a very early age that Phil was really really like incredibly smart he loved to read and most of the time he
00:07:37
would choose books that were very Advanced for a child his age so that was good but he also had a tendency to
00:07:43
behave in really uh basically he would he would behave in ways that people would later describe as peculiar okay um
00:07:52
seems like a nice way to describe some things it is when he was 5 years old and this is like a trigger warning this is
00:07:59
pretty he wrapped a curtain cord around his neck and jumped out of a second story
00:08:04
window of the family home like seemingly in an attempt to end his life at 5 years
00:08:09
old oh my fortunately the curtain ended up tearing from the window during the fall so and he actually also landed in a
00:08:17
very large pile of sand so he wasn't hurt but it was obviously like insanely frightening for his parents Franklin and
00:08:24
Lily and it's just like unfortunately this is what like 19 20 so you're not necessarily bringing him to a
00:08:32
psychologist or you know kind of looking further into why this happened and he was five five years old I feel like at
00:08:39
five it's like do you even have a conception of that yeah I don't know like wow that's very upsetting but it
00:08:47
was yeah and in the years that followed that incident Phil kept displaying strange behavior that confused a lot of
00:08:53
the adults around him like I said he was said to be a very bright child like he was really Advanced at reading but his
00:08:59
teacher said that he struggled to focus in school he was usually very defiant and one of the things that they most
00:09:05
commonly said about him was that he rarely finished anything he started he would start a any kind of project but he
00:09:12
would never follow it through I feel like so many people are like that though there's a lot of people like that and
00:09:17
there's like I think every and and this might not be him but it's like I feel like everybody goes through little
00:09:23
periods that they are like that a little bit if things are overwhelming and like
00:09:27
stuff's going on I'm not saying that's what happens kind of trying to figure out like what it is you like to do or
00:09:31
want you start a bunch of she like I'm going to organize my entire you know upstairs yeah and then you get like a
00:09:39
quarter of the way in and you're like that was a good try I'm not finishing that yeah but as
00:09:45
an Oklahoma state supreme court justice Phil's father Franklin had a pristine reputation to maintain so he was
00:09:52
constantly frustrated by his youngest son's Behavior like he was like you really need to get yourself in check cuz
00:09:57
follow we're we're kind of a minent family were kind of a big deal I don't know if anybody told you but now when
00:10:03
the family ended up moving to Tulsa in 1930 Franklin was really hoping that the change of environment and the structure
00:10:09
of an urban life would help Phil gain some self-discipline uh but the move did literally nothing to improve his
00:10:15
behavior no it usually doesn't de so now at a complete loss Phil's parents decided to send him to the new uh New
00:10:22
Mexico Military incident not incident Institute in Roswell it's a college prep school and it was known for for its very
00:10:30
intense discipline and Aliens yes yes exactly well now this was just a few months into their move so obviously
00:10:37
things were pretty bad at that point yeah like they were like oh you know maybe the change of scenery will help I
00:10:44
think things like really popped off and they were like we can't do this anymore like we need help we need someone to
00:10:50
intervene unfortunately though it seemed that even the military academy couldn't
00:10:54
tame Phil's defiant Spirit just 3 months after his arrival at the school L the father got a call in the morning
00:11:01
informing him that his son had run away during the Christmas break oh [ __ ] yeah
00:11:06
obviously it's not unheard of for kids to run away from boarding schools especially ones that have a reputation
00:11:12
for being strict disciplinary schools but Franklin treated the incident with kind of a surprising amount of alarm and
00:11:18
seriousness for that time immediately after he got the call Franklin sent his uh Court Clerk to New Mexico to locate
00:11:25
Phil and he alerted the federal postal authorities to be on the look out for Phil oh wow and it ended up being one of
00:11:31
those postal authorities that contact or that located Phil after 10 days and and
00:11:37
he was able to find him because Phil sent a letter from Galveston more than 700 miles away from Roswell asking a
00:11:44
friend to send him clothes and money so he he like really got as far away as D like that's kind of impressive that is
00:11:54
shows he has at least a little bit of something you're like you definitely like got it together to do that exactly
00:12:00
but despite his constant desire to get away from the school Phil was eventually convinced to return and the following
00:12:05
year when he was 17 he found no uh he found another reason to stick around 15-year-old Virginia Wilcox as the
00:12:13
daughter of millionaire oil magnate Homer Wilcox Virginia had lived her entire life in High Society Phil himself
00:12:20
was captivated by her beauty but his own strict upbringing and his father's expectations made him feel a closer bond
00:12:27
to Virginia who kind of GRE up with the same thing and he decided he was in love
00:12:32
in lerve in lerve so they went out a few times to dinner in the movies but Virginia decided pretty quickly that
00:12:38
Phil wasn't really her type and she was like Hey like I've had fun but I think we'd make better friends yeah cool we
00:12:45
love a straightforward Queen yeah she let him know yeah let him down easy but completely heartbroken Phil struggled to
00:12:51
accept Virginia's decision and continued to pursue her sending her gifts and flowers all the time and even asking her
00:12:58
for date 2 years in advance whoa and she was like I don't really know what part you didn't
00:13:04
understand if I'd rather be friends but that's a lot yeah now most teenagers obviously would be like understandably
00:13:12
devastated by their first heartbreak but Phil's reaction to the rejection went beyond the bounds of Reason his lawyer
00:13:18
later told a jury never a boy had a date with Virginia Wilcox without Phil threatening to kill him if he didn't
00:13:24
treat the young lady with every respect W yeah which I mean at least he was doing that yeah if you're being
00:13:30
hyperbolic that's great but yeah like I'll kill you if you don't respect her and it's like okay that's I don't know
00:13:35
that he was being hyperbolic I was going to say even when he had been sent to a different School in Durant Oklahoma he
00:13:42
kept sending letters kept sending gifts nearly every day at this point yeah that's to Virginia that's a lot he was
00:13:49
spending his entire allowance on these items that he sent to Virginia and actually even borrowing more money from
00:13:55
his friends when he would go above his allowance wow just all to send her gifts and that kind of thing So eventually he
00:14:02
concocted a plan to take a train to visit Virginia thinking he'd be able to convince her just to go out on one last
00:14:08
date and after that his plan was to end his life and make it look like it was a hunting accident oh jeez I know he he's
00:14:14
down badad it is sad the trip in the date never happened but the plan alone clearly spoke to his obsession with
00:14:21
Virginia yeah so in early 1932 Phil ended up joining his mom on a trip to San Angelo Angelo s angel angel can't
00:14:31
speak thank you um and they stayed there for a few months while LED some medal treatment she was having some health
00:14:38
problems okay while there Phil's mom enrolled him in 11th grade at the public school that's the thing it sounds like
00:14:43
he's lived like a thousand lives at this point he is literally in 11th grade he's
00:14:47
a junior in high school damn yeah it seems like he's like a grown adult at this point doesn't it not quite yet but
00:14:53
if she had hoped that the new Improvement was or the new environment was going to improve Phil's erratic and
00:14:58
impulsive behavior she was uh proven wrong almost immediately he started acting out he was running away from home
00:15:04
on the regular sometimes he would get as far as Louisiana one time he even got to
00:15:08
Florida another time he got as far as New York City whoa before being tracked down and returned to his parents damn
00:15:16
yeah he was just running away all the time finally in 1934 just a little way into his senior year of high school Phil
00:15:22
decided to drop out much to the displeasure of his parents to some his personality was just flat out defiant
00:15:30
and just like it seemed like he was just being this way to be this way but others
00:15:34
who ended up studying his behavior later would describe him as an impulsive uh fantasist like he was constantly in this
00:15:41
fantasy world he had these grandiose dreams and Ambitions that he spent almost all of his time thinking about
00:15:48
but then when those dreams didn't become reality fast enough or they actually required a serious investment of time
00:15:53
that he wasn't willing to give that's when he would give it up he'd abandon them he'd move on to something new now
00:15:59
kind of as an example after dropping out of school he wanted to become a writer and his parents were actually supportive
00:16:05
of that and they encouraged him to pursue it but they were like you also need to make some of your own money in
00:16:10
the meantime cuz you just dropped out of school we're not going to just support you blindly like you got to help us out
00:16:16
here so their insistence triggered a series of short-term jobs that Phil inevitably got bored with he quit just a
00:16:23
few months later including an advertising business he started with his friend that he hoped would lead him back
00:16:28
to Virginia when that didn't pan out after a couple months he was like never mind but wanting to be supportive of his
00:16:35
son's Ambitions Franklin kener went so far as to arrange for Phil to take a position at the Daily Oklahoma a local
00:16:42
newspaper and even paid the salary out of his own pocket what the [ __ ] just was
00:16:48
like give him a job I'll literally pay a salary but like I just like don't tell I'm paying his salary I just want him to
00:16:55
realize he needs a job but that also fell apart after just a few weeks when Phil lost interest and quit the position
00:17:02
Phil get it together I know now Franklin and Lily might have had high expectations for their kids but nobody
00:17:09
could say that they didn't support them in their dreams it's actually possible that Franklin was too supportive and
00:17:14
maybe too permissive when it came to his son yeah investing a ton of time and money in the hope that Phil would just
00:17:19
eventually find his place in the world when that job at the Daily Oklahoma fell apart Franklin again used his
00:17:26
connections to arrange another job for Phil as a messenger boy at a law firm in New York hoping maybe that change of
00:17:33
scenery would do him good but unfortunately after just a few weeks in New York his parents found out that Phil
00:17:39
started getting involved in criminal activities trying to quote organize two rival gangs in Harlem to come together
00:17:46
under his leadership what the [ __ ] he was like what if we just unite and have one gang and I'm in charge I'm the
00:17:54
leader of everything like what the [ __ ] dude your dad has paid your entire way
00:17:58
your life what could you be in charge of yeah let's be real so fearing for their
00:18:02
son's safety Franklin and Lily insisted that Phil leave New York which he did agree to do when his father again used
00:18:10
his connections to secure yet another job for Phil all right you got to you got to cut the uh cut the cord here cut
00:18:15
the umbilical cord I know this time uh this was at a law firm in California not surprisingly that job lasted only a
00:18:22
couple weeks until Phil got bored had left and after that he went back to Tulsa oh man yeah so for most of his
00:18:29
life the chaos that really just kind of swirled around Phil earned him a lot of the attention from adults around him
00:18:35
especially his dad who kind of managed to keep him from suffering any consequences yeah which like you get it
00:18:41
you're it's your kid like you'll do anything for your child should but like I mentioned Lily the the mom there
00:18:48
wasn't in great health and eventually her illness was taking up a lot of Franklin's free time and he didn't have
00:18:55
the time or the energy to figure out Phil's life for him yeah so he was like I got to focus on your mom yeah now
00:19:01
without a job or any real ambition Phil became really depressed he started drinking heavily and he was spending a
00:19:07
ton of his time with a small group of equally privileged yet hella delinquent friends hella delinquent hella
00:19:13
delinquent that'd be a good band name yeah so for months he bounced from one job to the other spending his evenings
00:19:19
at the high hat club which was an exclusive uh social club for Tulsa's wealthy and Elite young people wow the
00:19:27
the high club his life was full of activity most of it was built pretty much around heav heavy drinking but he
00:19:34
remained unfulfilled he occasionally chatted with girls at Club functions but he was still really obsessed with
00:19:40
Virginia was writing to her consistently at this point like years later give it up inviting her to Club dances like
00:19:48
sending her stuff all the time and she was always declining his invitations and like being like you don't need to keep
00:19:54
sending me these gifts like I told you a million plus times nothing is going to happen here
00:19:59
so crushed by the constant rejection he still expressed his thoughts of ending his life or plans for running away to
00:20:05
join the um French Foreign Legion but he never acted on any of those plans in the
00:20:11
spring of 1934 he took a job at the Freights insurance company where his friend and co-worker Preston Cochran
00:20:17
introduced him to 23-year-old John goral Jr John was a dental student from Kansas
00:20:22
City he actually grew up as the son of a prominent local physician so he knew what it was like to have or to come from
00:20:29
a wealthy family with these high expectations and they kind of bonded over that just kind of like how he and
00:20:34
uh Virginia had originally bonded but unlike Phil JN actually always followed through with the things he set out to do
00:20:42
ah that little difference yeah just a little bit he graduated from Elite prep schools he completed programs at local
00:20:47
universities he was he did a lot of good things but he also had a little bit of a
00:20:53
Wild Streak or a lot of bit of a Wild Streak a lot of bit Yeah like Phil John occasionally quote flirted with
00:21:00
criminality partially as a means of earning money when he was in school but also just for the sake of keeping things
00:21:06
exciting yeah on September 12th Phil got a call from John asking if he wanted to
00:21:11
meet him and another friend Ted bath for lunch at the Brown Derby Cafe in downtown Tulsa and Phil was like yeah
00:21:17
totally so they all got together and John explains that he figured the three of them would work well together and
00:21:23
suggested that they brainstorm some kind of idea to make a little little side cash yeah it didn't take long for Phil
00:21:30
to realize that whatever business JN had in mind it was uh not of the legal persuasion shocked yeah so Phil
00:21:38
suggested a low stakes robbery of a local beer bar which he assumed would have a large amount of money on hand
00:21:43
after a Saturday night but Ted shot the idea down insisting that some kind of place like that would definitely have
00:21:50
guards so that would be difficult absolutely so they kept brainstorming a little bit more and eventually Phil and
00:21:56
John came up with a new deranged idea oh fun they decided they would throw this big party and invite a bunch of young
00:22:03
women from prominent local families and just Supply them with free alcohol and once one of the wom was sufficiently
00:22:10
drunk they would lure her away to a private room and take nude or lured pictures of her and then use those
00:22:17
pictures to blackmail her family into paying a large sum of money so as to avoid any Scandal should those photos
00:22:24
get leaked to the Press what the [ __ ] you just you sit there and you're like how do three people come together and
00:22:33
say yeah and just be like I'm interested in that this is fine yeah I I should say
00:22:39
two because one of them was like I don't really know about that but like you all
00:22:43
sat there and had that like one of you should have been like this is [ __ ] up guys like some no one in that room was
00:22:49
like this is real [ __ ] up like in that moment exactly so they threw out names of girls they knew wealthy girls they
00:22:55
knew but none seemed right until Phil suggested one Virginia Willcox do in his mind Phil would later say that his plan
00:23:04
was to intervene during the scheme and save Virginia from the extortionist making him look like the hero in her
00:23:11
eyes and that he thought that would be the way to win her over or that she he even more [ __ ] up than I thought oh
00:23:18
he's super [ __ ] up he thought that would either win her over or that she would owe him something and the O would
00:23:23
be like to be with him it's like Phil get it together no like it together this is outrageous that's all assuming that
00:23:31
he she never learns that he orchestrated the plan to begin with of course she's going to find it out yeah of course Phil
00:23:38
didn't mention his ulterior motive to the others but it was just as well because Ted decided thank goodness there
00:23:44
was like one moderately normal person sitting at the table this wasn't the kind of thing he wanted to get involved
00:23:49
in good for Ted I know by he might not have been interested in the extortion scheme Ted but John G remained convinced
00:23:56
that it would work a few days later he proposed a new plan to two other friends one of whom worked for the Tulsa World
00:24:02
newspaper rather than just trying to exploit the girl's parents he added on another step he said why don't we kidnap
00:24:09
a girl and hold her for ransom yeah with their connections at the newspaper the kidnapping could get a lot of press
00:24:16
coverage and increase the pressure to pay the ransom but the other two people that he proposed it to wanted nothing to
00:24:23
do with that plan yeah cuz that's [ __ ] up and they were actually so put off by
00:24:27
it that they went and told which immediately concerned him which like if you're that concerned I don't
00:24:33
understand why you didn't just go to the [ __ ] police yeah I'd be like the fact
00:24:36
that you even came up with that you should be arrested exactly but from uh Phil's perspective exploiting Virginia's
00:24:42
father for money seemed like a relatively harmless scheme absolutely exploiting somebody's parent for money
00:24:48
by endangering their child is a total very harmless yeah yeah very casual yeah he's like taking pictures and you know
00:24:55
putting somebody in a horri position is one thing but it kidnapping them that's too far yeah that's a little too far
00:25:01
yeah he figured that one thing like that's fine the gang would get some money he would come out looking like a
00:25:05
hero and most importantly nobody would get hurt but he felt that Jon's new plan seemed far more serious and
00:25:11
consequential and like the kind of plan where somebody could get hurt so now he was concerned for Virginia's safety and
00:25:18
in mid- October he told her brother Homer Jr about Jon's new plan but Homer didn't believe him oh because I mean I I
00:25:29
would look back and say Homer like even if you don't believe this maybe mention it to somebody well that's the thing I
00:25:34
get why you don't believe it because Phil has shown that he's a little unhinged here when it comes to your
00:25:38
sister so and he he barely knows Phil I get that but it's like but you should at
00:25:44
least tell someone and be like I don't know if this is [ __ ] but somebody told me this and and it's like I can see
00:25:50
like you barely knowing somebody as a as an argument for why like you wouldn't trust them and be like oh maybe that's
00:25:56
like fooo but also you barely know them so you don't know what they're capable of so you could see it going both ways
00:26:04
but because he barely knew Phil and had no reason to trust him he was like I feel like this is just another one of
00:26:10
Phil's attempts to get Virginia's attention so he ignored the rumor not wanting to worry anybody no worry people
00:26:16
yeah that's that's what I say now the next month after John went back to school in Missouri Phil got a letter
00:26:21
from him saying that they that uh JN had made some connections in the city and he
00:26:26
figured they could get some easy money so he wanted Phil to meet him in Kansas City convinced John was talking about
00:26:33
the kidnapping plan Phil decided that he needed to go out to Missouri to find out
00:26:37
what John was up to so he told his parents that he and a friend were going to go on a camping trip for a few days
00:26:42
and then he packed a small bag and booked a flight to Kansas City so he arrived there on November 21st 1934 and
00:26:50
he checked into the Phillips Hotel under the name Mr Copeland from Chicago Mr Copeland is here I'm Mr Copeland from
00:26:57
Chicago just feels so like it does so fancy so detective movie and then he set out to find John who was drinking at a
00:27:04
local cafe with a group of young men surpris surprise shocked John introduced Phil to the gang as Bob Wilson just oh
00:27:11
excuse me he's Mr Copeland from Chicago okay actually get your fact straight and
00:27:15
then they ended up the two of them stepping away to a corner of the room to discuss their plan according to Jon's
00:27:21
friends who would later actually testify at Phil's trial the meeting was very tense Phil had wanted Virginia to see
00:27:27
him as a hero and in order to do that he needed to be in control of this entire scheme but Jon's plan was a threat not
00:27:35
only to Virginia's safety but to his entire goal according to his friends the interaction between JN and Phil actually
00:27:41
left Jon a little bit shaken h on his way to the bathroom John stopped at the table of his friend dick Oliver and he
00:27:48
said take a good look at at this fella if I'm killed Bob Wilson's the one who did it oh damn it's like what the [ __ ]
00:27:55
if you're killed Phil is the one that yeah don't you want the person to know like this guy real actual name is not
00:28:03
Bob Wilson who doesn't exist like I'm just not getting this folk no but a short time later Phil and John excused
00:28:12
themselves from the group again and went into a private room to keep discussing their plans and Phil decided as long as
00:28:17
he could stay in control and keep ahead of Jon he could still keep everything on
00:28:21
track to achieve his objective Virginia's heart yeah but johon threw another wrench in his plans when he end
00:28:28
introduced another conspirator Everett Gartner like Phil and John Gartner came from an extremely wealthy family and he
00:28:35
was kind of considered like a Playboy he spent most of his time flying one of his
00:28:39
two airplanes and just pursuing women I mean yeah every Gartner seems like he would do that yeah you know it's but I
00:28:47
feel like yeah it absolutely is yeah exactly but John robed Gartner into the plan because of his access to airplanes
00:28:53
which he hoped to use to transport Virginia so now they're kidnapping this woman and put her in a fcking airplane
00:29:00
and then it actually gets crazier this is a nightmare it's insane so the three spent some time discussing their plan
00:29:06
and Phil repeatedly tried to convince John that they didn't actually need to kidnap Virginia they could he said we
00:29:12
could just send an extortion note but John pointed out that it was pretty unlikely her father was going to pay
00:29:17
anything if Virginia wasn't actually missing or in danger wow which like solid point but still deranged really
00:29:25
deranged so Phil kept trying to persuade them that it was a bad idea a that it was going off the rails but for whatever
00:29:30
reason he eventually relented and together they wrote an extortion note where they demanded $20,000 and $5 and
00:29:38
$10 bills today that would be about $460,000 [ __ ] the note read failure to comply with our demands will result in
00:29:46
certain and painful death for one or more of your children Jesus after signing the note yours and in
00:29:52
expectation John Doe gorl added a postcript that read strict silence even in your family must be observed I hate
00:30:00
these two they're horrible what nasty little [ __ ] now three cuz Everett's in on it oh I forgot about Everett that
00:30:06
[ __ ] idiot fing the plane yep so after a few days in Missouri Phil eventually caught a ride back to Tulsa
00:30:12
with one of J uh John gor's friends Floyd Huff there's so many names in this names and they're so like old timey
00:30:18
they're so old like Floyd Huff that's that's come on not real are you Jing but along the way it became clear to Huff
00:30:26
that Phil who had been drinking heavily was not happy with their extortion plan as Huff drove Phil drunkenly ramed
00:30:33
rambled about Virginia telling him this bizarre story about how he'd come to Kansas City actually with a plan to kill
00:30:38
Jon which could very well have been true actually because at one point Phil pulled out a large hunting knife that he
00:30:45
packed in his bag for protection just to prove to Floyd Huff how serious he was Jesus and huff said if you're so adamant
00:30:52
about protecting Virginia and stopping John why not turn everything over to the police and be done with it like finally
00:30:58
somebody with half a [ __ ] brain here yeah and he's literally sitting there being like this is stupid well it
00:31:03
doesn't even sound real to him he's like this is like this is stupid I doubt this
00:31:07
is real and if it is tell the [ __ ] police yeah and it doesn't don't sit here with your soab story about how
00:31:11
you're you don't want to do this when you're not doing anything to change it to stop it in any way Phil agreed sure
00:31:17
that could have worked but in all reality he had another far more elaborate plan in mind in truth he
00:31:23
probably still believed that he could have used the opportunity to save Virginia and win her back which is why
00:31:28
he didn't do exactly what Floyd Huff recommended the other problem was that had he reported the crime to the police
00:31:34
he probably would have been implicated as a co-conspirator and he didn't want to face those consequences yeah let's
00:31:40
just go through with it yeah and see what happens there we'll figure it out after so instead he explained that he
00:31:47
had a plan to stop Jon by T this is real taking him up into an airplane where he
00:31:52
would knock Jon unconscious and then parachute to safety while the plane with Jon behind the controls plummeted to the
00:31:58
ground below you you could just call someone probably you don't have to do all this
00:32:05
like what the good news is unfortunately or maybe fortunately this plan was foiled when they all got too drunk to
00:32:11
rent an airplane wow and then Phil had to come up with a new plan they're really killing it yeah he said that was
00:32:16
my original plan Floyd this is my new one wow now I'm going to lure John dulsa where he would drive him out to a remote
00:32:23
area and pretend that the car had a flat tire and then he said he was going to kill kill John and leave his body there
00:32:31
okay Floyd Huff assumed that this too was drunk and rambling and didn't really think anything more about it so he
00:32:37
didn't call the police everybody's really just like taking people yeah that's why I said half a brain yeah yeah
00:32:46
as far as anybody could tell the plan that John Phil and Everett had laid out was for Phil to return home to Tulsa to
00:32:52
mail that note to Homer Wilcox senior then he and John would kidnap Virginia and wait for the money to arrive but by
00:32:59
the time Phil got to Tulsa he couldn't bring himself to put the note in the mail so instead he showed the extortion
00:33:05
letter to his friend Jack uh Jack sneden Preston Cochran and Sydney Bourne hoping
00:33:12
that the exposure would be enough to get John to call off the plan and if that didn't work he said then he would bring
00:33:18
the note to the police and put an end to the scheme for good it's like I don't think you ever
00:33:23
were planning on going to the police you definitely were never planning on going
00:33:27
to the police would have done it about 15 plans ago exactly so on the evening of November 28th Phil placed several
00:33:34
frantic calls to the home of John's parents where John had arrived earlier that day he was home for Thanksgiving
00:33:39
break cuz remember these are all like teenagers or people in their early 20s like just like fresh into college or
00:33:46
like barely out of high school wow now he so he kept calling John's house over and over again said he needed to know
00:33:52
whether Jon still intended on going through with everything but each time he called Jon was out so just kept leaving
00:33:58
these frantic messages for John to call him back that's probably fine and John's
00:34:02
mom is like what the [ __ ] who is this kid won that won't alarm anyone no not at all now the following day after
00:34:07
eating Thanksgiving dinner with his family Phil finally got a phone call from John who presumably indicated yeah
00:34:14
the plan was still on after hanging up Phil went to his father and asked if he knew of a kidnap and extortion plot if
00:34:22
it would be a good thing for him to capture the criminals and Franklin kener later told the jury I told him it was a
00:34:28
good thing to catch such people yeah like duh I you weren't like a little concerned with how stupid of a question
00:34:36
that was like I'd be like what was the reason for that question you know the answer I think he was probably used to
00:34:42
Phil just saying like C [ __ ] [ __ ] so he was like so he was like yeah yeah that
00:34:46
would be a good idea yeah you dodo like what he like can you not ruin Thanksgiving God so after dinner the two
00:34:53
went down to the drugstore where Franklin bought some cigars and they returned home the next time judge kener
00:34:59
saw his son was around 1:00 a.m. and by then John goral was dead John goral John
00:35:05
goral when it comes to the murder of John goral there was only one person who knew what really happened and obviously
00:35:11
that's the person who committed the crime Wow and his version of events should be viewed with at least some
00:35:17
skepticism according to Phil oh it's Phil we're talking about yeah it's Phil according to Phil after returning home
00:35:23
from the drugstore with his Dad he went back to the store by himself where he ran into un Ward and Hazel Williams the
00:35:30
two women had made plans for a double date with John and his friend Charles Bard so they told the clerk to relay a
00:35:36
message to JN that they could pick him that he could pick them up for their date at the hospital where they worked
00:35:42
Phil was at the drug store when John arrived and the two made plans to get together later that night to discuss the
00:35:48
extortion scheme the amount of times that they've had to discuss this plan and scheme insane that's all they talk
00:35:55
about it's wild that's they're just going through through the same plan and it's crazy that like nobody heard them
00:36:00
talking about this and I don't know went to the police about it cuz they talked about it everywhere every single day
00:36:05
every day all day every every hour all anytime like one of them was like hey have you heard that that new um like
00:36:12
picture show that's coming out down there they were like yeah yeah but the extortion like you there was no changing
00:36:18
the subject they're just so later that evening around 8:30 p.m. Phil met up with some friends at a local cafe and
00:36:27
told them he had made plans with John later that night saying he planned to put an end to the kidnapping plot so
00:36:33
literally anybody that knows Phil knows about this plot yeah but I don't even they probably just think he's talking
00:36:38
nonsense cuz he did talk a lot of nonsense Phil though even took out the large hunting knife out of his coat
00:36:44
pocket again and showed it to them as proof that he was well protected should things come to violence he said
00:36:51
explicitly that he didn't have any plans to kill Jon that this was simply a matter of protection but worth noting
00:36:58
during his testimony at trial Jack sneden I think it is one of the friends that Phil met at the cafe actually
00:37:05
contradicted Phil's account yikes he told a jury it was later in the evening and Phil actually did say that he
00:37:12
planned to kill JN oops and showed them both the extortion note as evidence that
00:37:16
Virginia was in danger so oops like completely different stories there Phil left his friends at the cafe that night
00:37:23
telling them well it's either gor's life or my life tonight you'll read about it
00:37:27
in the morning paper wow yeah and then he's like I had no intention on no intention of killing
00:37:34
this guy then he walks out and he's like one of us will die tonight bye see see you Deuces now needing to kill some time
00:37:41
before his plans with meeting up with John goral Phil left the cafe and went to the Quaker drug store where he ran
00:37:46
into Sydney Bourne an acquaintance he knew from school we've mentioned him before and more recently from the high
00:37:52
hat Club they had always gotten along pretty well so Sydney didn't ask any questions when Phil asked him for a ride
00:37:58
to the location where he was supposed to meet John a little after 11:00 p.m. Sydney's car pulled up to 19th in udica
00:38:04
Street where Phil got out and walked to Jon's car according to Phil he and JN started driving JN became irate when he
00:38:12
learned that Phil hadn't yet mailed that letter to Virginia's father Homer and he
00:38:17
said he then told John there isn't going to be any extortion explaining that the
00:38:21
scheme was coming to an end right then and there or he was going to be turning over that letter to the police and if
00:38:27
that didn't work Phil said he had every intention of killing Jon right then and there he said At The Mention Of police
00:38:34
Jon pulled a 22 caliber revolver from the driver's side door and pointed it at him Phil he later told a a packed
00:38:41
courtroom he had the pistol right in my face he pulled the trigger the gun failed to fire damn testifying in his
00:38:48
own defense he told the jury I struggled with him and I thought we both had the pistol the muzzle had changed directions
00:38:54
there was an explosion so whether whether he had intended to kill him or not the bullet
00:38:59
hit Jon in the head and then Phil fired again shooting Jon in the head for the second time and the second shot killed
00:39:07
him wow now with its driver no longer in control the car swerved off the road and
00:39:12
jumped the curb coming to a stop on the median between Victor and Forest Boulevard stunned by what had happened
00:39:18
Phil wiped his prince off the gun put it back in the holster and then dropped that on the passenger seat before
00:39:24
fleeing the scene whoa then he walked the 2 miles back down to the downtown area and rather than going straight home
00:39:32
he stopped into the Sunset Cafe which is a small bar on East 18th Street and inside he found his friend Tommy Thomas
00:39:39
Tommy Thomas Tommy Thomas and sat down next to him at the bar where he wasted no time telling Thomas what he'd done
00:39:46
what this just happened Thomas laughed not believing that his friend had actually killed anybody and just found
00:39:53
somebody to give Phil a ride home there's two ways to look at this uh-huh Phil is like hey I'm going to kill this
00:40:03
guy and everybody's like shut up Phil and then it's like hey I killed that guy and everybody's like shut up Phil nobody
00:40:08
thinks you did that which you could look at as like is two ways like one you're a
00:40:13
liar and No One Believes you or two that like No One Believes you would kill someone which is like you want that yeah
00:40:20
that's that's kind of know so it's like but I think this one is more like you lie all the time I think it's very much
00:40:26
that he's just constantly talking non-stop [ __ ] and that you kind of are one of those people who spins Yarns
00:40:32
and we don't actually believe you've done any of this stuff and that's why I don't think anybody took the extortion
00:40:37
plan seriously when he was telling them about it which like still you should you
00:40:41
like take it with at least a couple more grain of salt you know you'd rather overreact like some maybe somebody would
00:40:47
have ended up in jail instead of dead on a street corner you know so 17-year-old
00:40:53
Wesley Cunningham was on his way home from the movies that evening when he happened upon John gr's car stalled on
00:40:58
the median just a few minutes away from his house thinking that it might have been some local drunk passed out behind
00:41:04
the wheel Wesley pulled over to the side of the road to investigate it was after
00:41:09
midnight and actually snow had started to come down heavily so the headlights of his car barely provided enough light
00:41:14
to see what was happening in the car but when he finally reached the driver's side door of John gal's Ford conningham
00:41:21
realized it was not somebody drunk and passed out at all but a dead man he later told police I saw a man very pale
00:41:28
with blood running down his face and after realizing what he had stumbled upon he raced the short distance home to
00:41:33
to tell his stepdad about what he discovered and it was then that they called the police to report the death
00:41:39
after making an initial evaluation of the scene Patrol officers first believed that the young man in the driver's seat
00:41:46
had actually shot himself in the head while the car was still in motion which would explain the hole in his head and
00:41:51
the fact that the car had jumped the curb yeah but that theory quickly fell apart when they discovered that the gun
00:41:57
was was not laying on the floor or in the driver's hand but was in fact back in the holster and lying on the
00:42:03
passenger seat yeah that was dumb yeah given that it would have been impossible for the driver to shoot himself in the
00:42:09
head twice also I was going to say that was the first thing I thought I was like
00:42:12
H he did it twice yeah he has two holes in his head but there would be no way that he could shoot himself in the head
00:42:18
twice and then put the gun back in the holster so Thea the case quickly shifted from an assumed suicide to a presumed
00:42:25
murder it didn't take long to identify the driver as John goral and a notification was made to his parents and
00:42:32
remember I think this is like the day after it's either the day after or the very day of Thanksgiving yeah um so they
00:42:40
refuted the idea that their their son would have have committed suicide his father said Jon was in the best of
00:42:46
spirits today and while they were certain that Jon hadn't died by Suicide everybody seemed to be at a loss for who
00:42:52
would want to murder him or why he'd only been home for the holiday break a leral little over a day and as far as
00:42:58
anybody knew he hadn't gotten into any altercations with anybody so at that point his death really presented quite a
00:43:06
mystery now according to the coroner's office he had been shot in the head uh twice with his own gun and the second
00:43:12
bullet was the fatal wound but he didn't really have any other Insight outside of
00:43:17
that so in the meantime detective started reconstructing Jon's evening starting from the moment he left the
00:43:23
house to pick up his date detectives quickly deduced that Jon had been killed a little before midnight about 45
00:43:29
minutes before his body was discovered which meant that whoever killed Jon had done so in a pretty short amount of time
00:43:36
between when he dropped his date Unice off at the hospital and when his body was discovered cuz remember he also went
00:43:41
on a date that night moreover when they searched his pockets they discovered all
00:43:46
he had on him was $150 which included the 50 cents that his friend Charlie loaned him earlier that evening so they
00:43:53
all knew that robbery wasn't likely to be the motive now as detectives worked their way through Jon's friends and
00:43:59
acquaintances trying to find any clue as to identify this killer they eventually
00:44:04
reached his uh friend and roommate back in Kansas City dick Oliver I don't know if you remember that name from earlier
00:44:11
possibly there was there's been a lot a lot of names when Oliver was told that John may have committed suicide because
00:44:17
it was before they kind of really knew the gist of everything the young man immediately refuted the assertion and
00:44:22
explained just one week earlier JN had introduced him to an assoc see it he called Bob Wilson okay and told this guy
00:44:30
if he was ever found murdered Wilson was surely the killer Bob was the guy sitting at that table why did he say Bob
00:44:37
I know the problem of course like we were just saying is that Bob Wilson was not the Killer's real name so while
00:44:43
investigators now had a potential suspect they were no closer to finding actually Phil
00:44:50
kener dick Oliver also wasn't the only person who suspected that they knew who killed John goral on the afternoon of
00:44:57
December 1st when Floyd Huff learned of his friend's murder he also remembered a
00:45:01
conversation with gal's friend Bob Wilson cuz that's how he knew him too during that long car ride back to Tulsa
00:45:08
just one week earlier in a statement given to Kansas City Police the day after John's murder Huff told police how
00:45:15
about how Phil who he knew as Bob Wilson had told him of his plan to murder John
00:45:20
and now he was actually scared that the killer was going to come back and kill him too Floyd Huff said he gave me his
00:45:26
name address and telephone number I'm not going to leave here until that man is arrested he's like [ __ ] that now when
00:45:32
pressed for more information he produced a piece of paper from his jacket pocket
00:45:37
that read Phil kener Phil tower building 40219 shut the [ __ ] up so it's like yeah
00:45:45
he told you his name was Bob Wilson but then he gave you his [ __ ] address and listed his name as Phil
00:45:51
kener and you didn't look at it I don't know man wow Floyd went on to tell Kansas City Police everything he knew
00:45:58
about the alleged kidnapping and extortion plot and Phil's rambling plan to stop John and sa Virginia and
00:46:04
although Huff's story was outrageous and really would have been difficult to believe it was also extremely detailed
00:46:10
in a way that made it more credible than kind of the usual fabrication people were used to hearing so investigators
00:46:16
now knew their killer Bob Wilson was in fact Phil kener the teenage son of don't
00:46:23
forget a federal court judge man poor Franklin yeah I know now while detectives in Tulsa and Kansas City were
00:46:31
putting together the pieces of this mysterious death death on November 30th Phil kener was in Rogers County on a
00:46:38
hunting trip with his father just acting like nothing had happened he just killed
00:46:42
the boy he literally just killed a guy when they concluded their hunting Phil asked his father to drive him to the
00:46:48
train station so he could return to Tulsa to quote transact some business at a bank that should have been Franklin's
00:46:55
first red flag of like what business do you have yeah he was probably just happy
00:46:59
that his son wanted to [ __ ] conduct some kind of business so he was like yeah sure and the next time he saw him a
00:47:05
little afternoon the following day Phil was in the company of a flint Moss a Tulsa criminal defense attorney and
00:47:12
together they all just have like One inial initial has the all defense attorneys have that I know you're so
00:47:19
right a flint moss and so he shows up home with this attorney and Phil and this attorney sit there and tell
00:47:27
Franklin exactly what happened a few days earlier oh my God Franklin is blindsided yeah Franklin kener later
00:47:34
told a jury I told Phil to go as quickly as possible and surrender to the sheriff
00:47:38
I had no doubt at all that Phil was irrational and irresponsible that night oh so he's like maybe we can get some
00:47:44
kind of you know and he's like go turn yourself in right now yeah so when a moss and kener Phil kener arrived at the
00:47:52
Sheriff's Office on the afternoon of December 1st the lawyer presented his client for surrender and the deputy at
00:47:58
the front desk didn't take either man seriously and thought it was a joke until Moss made his official statement
00:48:07
he said Phil came to my office early today and told me he may have been compelled to kill uh goral and in order
00:48:13
to preserve his own life so the surrender and confession was immediately picked up by the police or excuse me by
00:48:19
the Press who clamored for more information but when asked directly why Phil had killed gorl M said I've said as
00:48:26
much as I can regarding that why does everyone assume that Phil is just a silly goofy guy he's just the silliest
00:48:33
of gooses I don't always talking about murder and kidnapping but never actually doing the murder and kidnapping not only
00:48:40
like not just his friends but even the sheriff's deputy whose job it is to take confessions like take a statement about
00:48:49
a crime that has been committed and this man is standing in the [ __ ] presence of a criminal defense attorney
00:48:56
and the sheriff is still like you're the silliest of gooses he's like you guys came in here just for some lws yeah he's
00:49:02
like wow it's not open mic night tonight like what the [ __ ] stupid mic night tonight nobody's believeing like he's
00:49:09
literally running around town being like I killed John goral and everyone's like
00:49:13
you're hilarious go away that's so funny Phil let's get you a ride home and also
00:49:17
it's like guys John goral is dead maybe someone should take it seriously a little bit maybe you would think I think
00:49:24
the sheriff's deputy was like you got to be [ __ ] kidding me cuz you're a federal Court's kid like judge's kid
00:49:30
like no he's telling you what he did bro yeah so Flint Moss may have been determined to remain tight lipped around
00:49:36
his client's actions but uh judge kener didn't make the same effort oh in his statement to the Press immediately
00:49:42
following his son's surrender judge kener said I never dreamed such a thing could happen I always instructed my boy
00:49:48
never to touch the hair of a human unless it were a life and death struggle oh that hurts my heart I know when he
00:49:55
says my boy yeah John gorl Senior and his wife also prepare prepared a statement for the Press where they
00:50:01
acknowledged that their son had indeed been friendly with Phil kener but as far as they knew the two hadn't spoken in
00:50:08
some time Mrs gr said the first time I ever heard of Phil kener was last summer when for about a week he would come by
00:50:15
the house for John accompanied by another boy the friendship was short-lived it just spurted up and then
00:50:20
suddenly died down I never heard much of Phil again until Thanksgiving Day oh my
00:50:25
to the readers of the and newspapers the goral murder had all the makings of a perfect and perfectly irresistible
00:50:32
Scandal extortion kidnapping a beautiful young woman friends turned enemies and most importantly a mysterious motive in
00:50:41
the absence of an obvious motive the public and the Press wasted no time speculating about what could have led
00:50:46
the son of one of Tulsa's most influential judges to commit murder they wondered if it was a Thrill Kill like
00:50:52
the Leopold and lobe murder a decade earlier or if it was the Act of quote a band of well-to-do hoodlums who planned
00:51:00
robbery and extortion a gang of welltoo hoodlums which they kind of were I guess
00:51:06
yeah it just wow yeah the language what a sentence wild but the prosecution was less interested in speculating on the
00:51:13
motive than they were determining whether Phil was mentally sound at the time he committed the crime just days
00:51:19
after his arrest County attorney Holly Anderson reached out to Dr Felix Adams superintendent of the Eastern Oklahoma
00:51:26
Hospital hospital for the insane is what it was called back then is what it was called I was like to be clear I didn't
00:51:33
just add that little moniker onto it at the end no no no and he asked if the doctor would come to Tulsa as soon as
00:51:38
possible to interview Phil and advise on his competency from an outside perspective a mental health evaluation
00:51:44
seemed like the wisest course of action in his statements to police particularly
00:51:49
those who had made their way to the Press Phil's only explanation for the murder was that he had to do it in order
00:51:55
to save his own life so it kind of sounded like why did you have to do it especially when JN was
00:52:02
driving yeah exactly that takes away from that a little bit it does a little bit like you're in like he's got to
00:52:08
drive yeah so it's like the life or death situation gets a little of course you can be in a life or death situation
00:52:15
in that's in that scenario but it's a little harder to grasp yeah it definitely is and the case also hinged
00:52:21
heavily on testimony from people like Floyd Huff whose story about Phil's plans for Grandy Doo intervention in the
00:52:27
kidnapping plot hardly sounded like the actions of a sane man so I think he's sane just out of touch I think now like
00:52:37
2024 like we've seen so many cases like this but think about it it's like 1930 people are like what the [ __ ] like I
00:52:44
think it I think they're probably looking at it more like that guy's crazy you know I mean like he's he's talking
00:52:50
crazy you know like not like clinically clinical sanity I think it's like yeah you can't be in his right mind he's
00:52:56
saying that kind of stuff and it's like no he's not in his right mind but like that's his mind but that that is his
00:53:01
mind and it's a sane mind in my opinion that I think the same thing yeah but the
00:53:05
story became even more scandalous and mysterious a week or so later on December 10th when Sydney Bourne the
00:53:11
young man who drove Phil to meet John goral on the night of the murder died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound to
00:53:17
the Head what according to the Press borne was quote found in his Motorcar sh uh shot through the head with an
00:53:24
automatic pistol near the spot where gorl was killed what despite the county attorney's emphatic statement that the
00:53:30
death was an out andout suicide and quote couldn't be anything else borne's death gave Credence to unsubstantiated
00:53:37
rumors that John girl's death was part of a scheme perpetrated by a gang of wealthy young
00:53:43
criminals only 20 or so minutes before Sydney Bourne was discovered in his car he had been desperately trying to reach
00:53:50
Phil Kar by phone but the guards at the jail refused to let Phil take the call oh [ __ ] which some people felt was
00:53:58
evidence of a larger conspiracy so not wanting to waste the opportunity Phil's defense attorney a flint Moss a flint
00:54:05
Moss a flint Moss I feel like I'm saying like a singular Flint Moss a flint Moss
00:54:10
yeah he made a statement to the Press indicating that Sydney Bourne might have had some information that could have
00:54:15
exonerated Phil kenamar oh [ __ ] even Phil weiten on the news telling reporters I don't believe and will never
00:54:21
believe that Sydney Bourne committed suicide whoa I couldn't find anything inter he didn't but
00:54:30
interesante who's to say who's to say it does seem pretty likely that his death really was a suicide but the reason for
00:54:37
him wanting to end his life remains a mystery yeah it seemed that since Phils arrest Sydney had actually been
00:54:43
incredibly anxious and fearful author Jason Maro wrote Whatever the reason Sydney born's fear was certainly real to
00:54:49
him even if it was found to later to be blown out of proportion I think the theory is that he
00:54:56
was motivated by a fear that he was going to be roped into the case and kind of face some serious consequences drove
00:55:02
him there because he drove him there exactly but ultimately Sydney's death presented a problem for the prosecution
00:55:09
because he was really the only bu that could place Phil at the scene being the one who drove him there yeah so with one
00:55:15
witness dead and endless rumors swirling around the case Holly Anderson knew he needed to get a hold of this case and
00:55:21
get filled to trial as soon as possible or there was going to be a greater risk of a tainted jury pool or possibly even
00:55:27
an aqu quiddle so given those circumstances Anderson became very vocal about his desire to go to trial as
00:55:33
quickly as possible and he actually even expressed his desire to skip the grand jury altogether damn he told reporters
00:55:41
I'm opposed to any grand jury at this time it would not it would do no good in this particular case a grand jury could
00:55:47
not obtain information from outside the county for one thing we have done that already and have the case under lock and
00:55:53
key so indicating his intent to go to trial in mid January he said Maddox and I uh Sergeant Maddox and I are satisfied
00:56:00
that we know the facts behind the killing of John goral and while there was some question as to the legality of
00:56:06
skipping the grand jury phase he felt confident that they could move forward with the information that they possessed
00:56:12
wow now one of the key aspects of the case that captivated the public was the perception that young people
00:56:18
particularly actually those from wealthy Elite families were out of control out of control like people were like what
00:56:24
the [ __ ] is going on they're Wy they're like those kids from The Purge yeah exactly that's all I think of is every
00:56:30
time like when they're standing outside the door yeah and he's got the mask on and they're all just like skipping
00:56:36
around out there and he's like we're like you like they're that's what I think of group kids so so chilling that
00:56:43
first one is so good guys we saw that for my birthday remember like years ago that's wild I think it's a great concept
00:56:50
it is I haven't seen that since then yeah I haven't seen the other ones either I haven't either we should do
00:56:54
those for we should all right noted all right but yeah wealthy Elite children are out of control now the case against
00:57:02
Phil was at at least appeared to give that Panic some credibility and in the weeks leading up to the trial the
00:57:08
youngest member of the Wilcox family Homer Jr was arrested after it was learned that he and a friend had been
00:57:14
shooting out street lights on the night of gor's murder for which he would ultimately be tried and fined that's
00:57:20
what it is they're all they're rich and bored exactly they don't have anything else to do 100% but everybody was like
00:57:27
oh my God it's out of control they're out of control and it's like maybe they were maybe but at the same time Phil
00:57:32
started telling the Press an elaborate story about a gang of youths involved in criminal activity in Tulsa all of whom
00:57:39
were involved in the plot to kidnap Virginia Wilcox stating his belief that Sydney Bourne was killed to quote seal
00:57:45
his lips and prevent his giving defense testimony Phil urged the Sheriff's Office to arrest and prosecute the
00:57:51
supposed members of the game or the gang excuse me who he privately named Sheriff
00:57:56
price told reporters we haven't got enough on any of those fellows to arrest him you can't take that fellow's story
00:58:02
at its face value yeah if we know one thing about Phil it's that not a soul on this [ __ ] Earth believes in [ __ ] that
00:58:09
comes out of his mouth no not a soul the thing was he that it was kind of like a
00:58:14
Hal truth because there were a lot of people involved in this extortion ring this [ __ ] must lied say it's the
00:58:21
boy who cried wolf cuz it's like you're not totally lying here but not a Soul believes you that's the thing they never
00:58:28
will and we won't but there was also no evidence to support his claims of a gr conspiracy either to kidnap Virginia or
00:58:35
frame him for murder it's clear now though that what Phil and his attorney were most likely trying to do was
00:58:42
Leverage The sensationalism and the rumors around the case in order to lay their groundwork for the defense yeah
00:58:47
definitely the well-to-do gang story had the potential to create enough doubt to
00:58:52
win an aquid and if that didn't work a flint Moss could still use the story the story to support an insanity defense
00:58:59
yeah it's smart strategy yeah you got to give credit where credits do I guess in
00:59:03
early January Phil presented five handwritten notes in coded language which he implied were further evidence
00:59:09
of a conspiracy the notes really just seemed like nonsense but they supported the defense's increasingly obvious plan
00:59:17
to submit an insanity defense a flint Moss told the Press I've not seen the notes but Phil told me about them Sunday
00:59:24
in a way that indicated he was boasting his shrewdness as far as I've been able to learn these notes contain nothing
00:59:30
incriminating and then he went on to speculate the notes strengthened while rather than weakened the defenses theory
00:59:36
that Phil kener was unbalanced okay just really going for it the defense team did the best that they
00:59:43
could to stall the fast approaching trial but aside from winning a change of venue they were unsuccessful at delaying
00:59:48
the inevitable the Press meanwhile continu continued their intense focus on the case touting it as the sensation of
00:59:55
the decade and without a doubt the most Sensational trial in Tulsa for a decade or
01:00:01
more wow like that's crazy now rather than focusing on the facts of the case and without any new information the
01:00:08
Press coverage shifted towards the members of the prosecution and defense teams and their histories of having
01:00:14
faced one another in court before like that was kind of the new story which is really less interesting to me yeah but
01:00:21
Phil's defense team was being led by his primary attorney you know Ain Moss you know a you know that guy but also
01:00:28
included other well-known and widely respected lawyers who had taken on the case as a favor to his dad judge kener
01:00:35
among them none stood out more than CB Stewart we have more initials look at c a formal federal judge from the quote
01:00:42
unquote territorial days who had more than 50 years experience practicing law given the highly notable players
01:00:49
involved reporters and Spectators eagerly anticipated a very exciting trial Phil's trial began on February
01:00:56
11th 1935 at the District of pony Oklahoma shut the [ __ ] up we're in Pony baby except it's a different Pony I know
01:01:06
but it's still Pon still Pony Oklahoma Oklahoma I was so excited to say that that's exciting so great but as far as
01:01:14
Spectators expectations were concerned it did not disappoint it was very rich with flowery dramatic rhetoric notable
01:01:21
Witnesses the trial was a theatrical display that dominated headlines AC across the state and actually even
01:01:27
around the country at this point in time yeah when opening statements finally began on February 13th things had
01:01:33
settled a little bit in the courtroom and it appeared like a lot of drama had ended in his opening statement
01:01:39
prosecutor Tom Wallace laid out the states fairly straightforward case to the jury he said Phil kenamar had
01:01:45
initially agreed to engage in an extortion plot and kidnapping of his former girlfriend which I'm like can you
01:01:51
even really call her that you really can't they went on a few dates but he said after a change of heart and a
01:01:55
failed attempt to bring the plot to an end he murdered his former friend John and more or less admitted to admitted
01:02:01
that to the police upon his surrender and investigators had collected sufficient evidence and testimony that
01:02:07
supported this version of events while everything seemed to be on track within about an hour the courtroom was thrown
01:02:13
into disarray when one of the state's first Witnesses apartment owner Edna Harmon told the judge she quote didn't
01:02:20
want to testify because threats had been made against her this is wiy it's wly as
01:02:25
[ __ ] after hearing Harmon's statement aent Moss jumped out of his chair and shouted that's not the reason she's
01:02:31
afraid that's such an aent Moss thing to do he said that's she's not scared because of that no way I know this guy
01:02:39
as the owner of a building where Phil kenamar had supposedly rented a room Harmon told the police initially that
01:02:45
she overheard Phil talking about the murder with another young man and that's why she was called as a witness her
01:02:51
statement about being threatened though came as a shock to the defense and the prosecution with moss demanding that a
01:02:57
mistrial be declared and accusing the prosecution of hiring her to lie on the stand wow he said I can BR I can prove
01:03:05
by a Tulsa attorney that she tried to sell us testimony in another case I can show you the letter she asked us for as
01:03:12
much as $2500 shut the [ __ ] up Edna so after sending the jury out of the courtroom
01:03:17
the judge ultimately regained order and her statements were stricken from the record but no mistrial was declared they
01:03:23
said Edna get out of here they said Edna get out of here you're not allowed to court anymore girl you got you got to go
01:03:29
baby you got to have her name on a list or something seriously not allowed to testify so though the though it didn't
01:03:37
derail the trial as it as many would have expected it would Edna's dramatic claim of threats being made against her
01:03:43
and her family and the Uproar it caused in the courtroom set the tone for the trial where everybody seemed to be
01:03:48
determined to give the biggest performance under of their lives while they were testifying it is it's like
01:03:55
they're still in the 20s in the 30s yeah it's like still very 20s it's very like that you know that's very
01:04:03
20s I don't know you do one just like that you do one what is what kind of thing am I doing just a sound effect of
01:04:10
the 20s what people did of the 20s I feel like it would be Jazz Jazzy like there you go okay yeah there you go I
01:04:18
like it now under no obligation to establish a motive Holly Anderson and the prosecution rested their case
01:04:25
without really ever explaining why they believed Phil had killed John cool they were just like H he just did I don't
01:04:31
know he did it we know that he admitted it yeah he said he did so now while the prosecution didn't have any theories as
01:04:37
to motive the defense absolutely did and one witness after another Flint Moss probed into Phil's history providing
01:04:44
many examples of strange Behavior going back as far as childhood all in in an attempt to sell their belief that
01:04:51
although he had murdered John goral he had only done so because of profound mental illness feels intense it is from
01:04:59
his position behind the defendants table Phil leared at his former friends as they testified many on behalf of his
01:05:05
Insanity defense who and occasionally shouted at them before being brought back into a line by the judge or his
01:05:10
attorneys sounds like he's leaning into that as well when I said everyone was giving a performance of their lifetime I
01:05:17
meant absolutely everybody but testifying for the defense Franklin kener told the jury about his
01:05:24
son's difficult social history the many times he'd run away and all the other trouble that Phil had caused his
01:05:29
parents starting when he was very very young yeah it sounds like he's just he's a troublemaker yeah I don't think he's
01:05:35
criminally insan I think he's just troubled not insane but I think he knew the difference between right and wrong
01:05:41
but as an example of Phil's bizarre and erratic thinking judge kener told the court on some occasions when he was
01:05:46
Moody and depressed he thought the French Foreign Legion would be a good place to be banished from decent Society
01:05:52
Virginia Willcox herself also testified emping and many felt Phil's obsession with her and uning let go of their
01:06:02
relationship also have you seen the picture of her have I seen her she is I mean she's a vision oh damn she's
01:06:12
Gorge she's beautiful yeah she's really pretty I get why he was obsessed like another she's beautiful she really is
01:06:20
yeah I feel like Phil would have been like a pretty normal looking dude if he wasn't so Wy yeah I mean he's definitely
01:06:26
not for me he's not for Virginia yeah he wasn't for Virginia no she didn't Virginia's a beauty she wasn't into it
01:06:33
no and she was very clear with him that's the other thing she she didn't telling him along the way she was kind
01:06:38
but she was direct and said it's not happening I'd like to be friends would not let it go that's [ __ ] up that is
01:06:43
[ __ ] up but while the behaviors described by many witnesses who had known Phil well almost certainly sounded
01:06:49
bizarre and supported the defense's assertion of mental illness what they lacked was any testimony or document
01:06:56
from any psychological evaluations that confirmed Phil's supposed Insanity like everybody up there that knew him could
01:07:03
be like yeah he's [ __ ] crazy but they don't have a degree in this [ __ ] exactly
01:07:06
you can say anyone's crazy exactly Phil had been evaluated he actually had been evaluated by several psychologists in
01:07:12
the months leading up to the trial and only one famed psychologist Dr uh Carl menager was willing to testify that Phil
01:07:20
was quote mentally ill irrational and believed his own omnipotence on the night he killed
01:07:26
goral however before doct menager could answer when directly asked whether he believed Phil was insane the prosecution
01:07:34
successfully objected arguing that the doctor having not heard the full extent of the evidence couldn't possibly know
01:07:40
that fact in fact when he was cross-examined by the defense the doctor admitted were it not for the fact that
01:07:46
Phil had killed someone he probably wouldn't say he was mentally ill see that's the thing that's the that's the
01:07:52
one thing you can say that you can't pinpoint into a rational mind exactly so after nearly two weeks of Sensational
01:08:00
testimony and dramatic Court Romantics the jury retired for deliberation a little after noon on February 22nd with
01:08:06
the judge's instruction that they could either find Phil kener guilty of manslaughter or guilty of first-degree
01:08:12
murder the latter of the two likely resulting in his execution after 9 hours of deliberation the jury returned to the
01:08:20
courtroom that evening to announce their verdict that Phil kener was guilty on the first deegree man Slaughter I had a
01:08:26
feeling that was going to happen yep of John goral Jr when the verdict was read the court erupted in excitement with
01:08:32
several Spectators applauding the decision although they had encouraged the jury to find kener guilty of
01:08:38
first-degree murder when asked if his opinion on the result Holly enderson the prosecutor told reporters the state of
01:08:44
Oklahoma is entirely satisfied yeah like he's still being for what he did court resumed the next day for sentencing and
01:08:51
judge Hurst sentenced fill to 25 years in prison damn in his closing statement he addressed the the sensationalism and
01:08:58
controversy surrounding the case particularly the frequent insinuation and ass assertions from the defense that
01:09:04
the case was being pursued as a vendetta against Phil's father what it's like no
01:09:09
no the case was being pursued because a man died and because he admitted to doing it exactly but the judge said it
01:09:15
was suggested that the state wants to punish you to injure your father it was also suggested that you might not be
01:09:21
given the same trial as anyone else in my idea the son of a federal judge and the son of a peasant should be treated
01:09:26
alike yeah when asked for a statement Phil shook hands with several reporters and said so far as the closing statement
01:09:33
of Judge Hurst is concerned it was fair I deeply regret the occurrence of this tragedy not in its ultimate effect on me
01:09:39
but its effect on the innocent parties involved my family and that of goral as for his opinion of the prosecution he
01:09:45
said gentlemen for the state are no gentlemen I mean I don't agree with you you also just talk [ __ ] about your own
01:09:52
dad yeah like so what okay yeah you're like now immediately after the trial Phil's defense team filed several
01:10:00
appeals for motions for a new trial but they were all rejected and the original verdict was upheld by higher courts yeah
01:10:06
it feels Fair it feels fair to me too I agree in his early years at McAllister prison now known as Oklahoma State
01:10:13
Penitentiary Phil tried multiple times to get parole but he was unsuccessful finally in 1938 he successfully lobbied
01:10:21
uh Governor ew Marland for a temporary parole of 6 months during during which he was confined to his parents home in
01:10:27
Arizona to spend time with his mother who was dying at that point oh that's sad after Lily kenamar had passed away
01:10:33
Phil again tried to get his temporary parole extended but by then the state had a new and much less sympathetic
01:10:39
governor who denied the request must be so much worse to come out and then go back and then have to be go back have to
01:10:46
be go back in I just said wow have to be go back in we didn't have coffee I need
01:10:51
another coffee but yeah I age have to go back in after being out yeah that' be rough that would be so hard I feel now
01:11:00
Phil appeared uh excuse me appealed to the governor's office again in 1943 and this time he was successful at winning
01:11:06
po parole on the condition that he would join the military and be sent to the front lines to fight in World War II
01:11:13
damn he accepted that condition and ultimately became a paratrooper with the ca Battalion of the 460 field artillery
01:11:21
517th Battalion regimental combat team damnn after the invasion of Normandy in the summer of 1944 his Battalion
01:11:29
parachuted into France on August 15th 1944 during which Phil and another Soldier were shot down by Nazi machine
01:11:36
gun fire whoa just before being so he died like fighting in World War II holy [ __ ] I didn't see that coming yeah crazy
01:11:43
turn it just gave me chills but just before being sent to Europe he gave a statement to a reporter from the Tulsa
01:11:48
World where he said something just seems to tell me that I won't come back I hope
01:11:53
that if I die that those who have condemned me will hold me differently in their
01:11:57
memories whoa yeah and that is the end wow that gives you the chills it does like that's a that's a wild end it's it
01:12:07
was a wild case through and through because when I started reading it I was like oh my God they're going to go after
01:12:11
Virginia and like I ultimately thought that something was going to happen to her that's what I thought this was going
01:12:16
you're glad nothing happened to her yeah and like you don't see that you didn't want anything bad to happen to anybody
01:12:22
so yeah one wow yeah old time these kids these Purge kids these wealthy Rich Elite kids of
01:12:30
the the judges and that kind of thing with the masks and the and the white dresses you know skipping outside your
01:12:37
house skipping outside your house on Purge night it's these kids it's these kids I tell you wow yeah crazy one so
01:12:45
yeah we hope you keep listening and we hope you keep it but not so weird that you do anything
01:12:51
like this because oh my God like don't hire extortion people and don't hear about extortions and not stop them
01:12:57
and get in cars and hurt people and yeah don't do any of that and don't be the kind of person where when you actually
01:13:04
do something bad and you're like hey everybody I did something bad you've lied so much that No One Believes you
01:13:09
yeah just stop lying just don't do bad things and don't lie so people believe you please yeah
01:13:17
[Music] [Music]