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hey Prime members you can listen to morbid early and add free on Amazon music download the app today
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in season three of the hit True Crime podcast cold I Dave Cauley investigate The Disappearance of a young mother
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Sheree Warren we'll try to find out if either of the two men in her life both with abusive pasts were responsible for
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her death listen to cold the search for Cherie on Amazon music or wherever you get your podcasts hey weirdos I'm Ash
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and I'm Elena and this is morbid under UFO attack yeah [Music] [Music] thank you
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[Music] what's going on I'm scared I'm intrigued I'm officially I've had it up to here I
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don't want this yeah I mean I'm just trying to get married and have a couple babies like I don't know I don't need
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this you know what's gonna what's funny is like by the time this comes out who knows how many more are going to be shot
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out of the sky because like that's the trouble with like the the week ahead thing I know we're kind of off the
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current events a little bit but you know we're getting there we're catching up yeah so who knows by the time this comes
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out we we could be under full alien attack and that's interesting laughs they call that a deep breath where I'm
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from yeah you don't know no I have active anxiety about this at this point we don't know none of us know like why
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are they flying where where the planes just in our airspace yeah color me um still afraid of flying because now
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you even more afraid a new fear has been unlocked that there is no UFOs in the way of planes do you think me they're
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just gonna come get the good ones of us that are like you know give back to humanity and spread Christmas cheer for
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all to hear like in there and then they can say like come to a planet guambo yeah I mean um because you're kind let's
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go you smell good let's go to Planet guamba welcome let's go there I'll do most things I'll do mostly I won't do
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most things but I will um I'll do a lot of things I'll tell you stories aliens Tails I think I am an
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alien so maybe Mama's coming to get me I think it's I think that's great that's called
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A coping skill right there I do think it's funny that like if we had one of those boards that was like this planet
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has gone how many days without shooting down a UFO we would keep having to erase
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that number this weekend we could not hit we could not hit that zero couldn't do it we were always at one and we still
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are at one I don't like that it's it's not fair to me it's it's that some people know what's up but they won't let
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us know yeah like somebody knows what's what's going on somebody knows oh what a
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few people know a couple people and I just think that I want to know too because secret secrets are no fun secret
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Secrets hurt someone and possibly a whole planet possibly all of us yeah I don't know and I don't know what's going
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on earthquakes lately there's been like a lot of scary tsunamis we as a joke you
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know tsunamis in California you know uh that was a call back in case you were wondering and call back calling back to
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that time I'm not I'm just like you know what you're not scared no everything sucks
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here like we we don't deserve any of this no but not everything like I love my well oh I don't like my life I love
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my little bubble yeah so like I I want that to stay yeah but in the grand scheme of things I'm like there are days
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when I'm like you know what it's about time for that asteroid no no no I don't like it when you say that seriously I
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really don't I say it a lot too she says it so much I don't want to be away from
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Drew that's literally like my biggest no I'm actually gonna cry right now same Seas but like we're good it's if it's
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are we if it's an UFO Invasion we'll take it one day at a time you know that's all you can do why future trip we
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don't know these my future we don't know these people these things they could come down here and just be like we're
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here to Marie condo this planet of yours we're gonna spark Joy I mean we don't like you guys suck you're all [ __ ]
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miserable like I think that's part of the problem we are collectively right now [ __ ] miserable yeah we're all just
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angry nasty little [ __ ] being nasty to each other I'm not saying everybody you know what I mean but like but like
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as a population here I think the pandemic really shot that off that proved that we cannot handle even that
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kind of inconvenience and it's like I think maybe they'll come down and they'll be like okay it's time to tidy
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up it's a loud airplane going by that is a loud airplane and I apologize for that
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just breathe but it's an airplane it's not a new phone so it's good I didn't see it it's identified I didn't see it
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sounds like an airplane I'm gonna go with airplane I'm not gonna stress I'm gonna I'm not gonna start up here here's
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what's you're gonna take it one day at a time I'm gonna appreciate every second I
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have here's a theory oh yeah I appreciate all those seconds yeah yeah never mind
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um here's the theory I Got a Theory watch the re-watcher that's above the reference by the way we're not there yet
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I was like I don't I might not have time I have to plug this okay stop it um what if it's happy and it's ourselves
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on that other plane because like you know you're not just here like for sure it definitely exists somewhere else what
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if it's our someone else's coming to gather those of us that need to get the [ __ ] out of here but I love that theory
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you know and you know what that's an absolutely valid Theory because we have no [ __ ] clue what's going on so that
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is a valid Theory I need to go back to therapy I think I think it's fine I'm just blissfully ignorant right now
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I'm like you know what no I don't know what those things are do I want to know yeah I do I mean really but like at this
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point I'm like I'm just gonna go about my day this has been going on for like decades like there's always been like
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UFO sightings and stuff like that it's really amping up right now though yeah I mean like I'm sure it feels like it
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might be uh slightly thicker the uh the air right now have they ever been that low in our flying space before like ever
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or is that I do not know but I wish we had an expert here today I wish we did maybe we should just get an expert UFO
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apologist I don't I think that's only an alien no that's like a thing I think oh
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really I'm pretty sure that Henry from last podcast on the left is a new fall Henry so what the [ __ ] is going on maybe
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Henry can tell us imagine if they listened Henry if you listen that would be sick I don't think you do but if you
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think at this point we probably know it would be sick if you did and you are welcome to come on and talk to us about
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ufology because I have actual genuine anxiety it's actually like we should move on because I'm actually feeling my
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chest yeah and you know what um let's try to get Henry on here that'll be our next move is to get Henry
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and we'll talk about UFOs um but true crime oh before we go to True Crime actually
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sorry something else um you know we've been having there's been all these people that have been messaging being
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like I thanks for the all the content like are you guys okay though no no I'm not and we are we're okay there's been a
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lot of personal stuff that have been going on like so yeah we're going with that
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um but there's been some like personal like sad things that have happened yeah yeah we're okay though don't worry we're
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totally fine we're just like the kids are all the kids are all right we're just you know people be people in so
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that's just like how we are but you know what I woke up this morning and I said huh I feel good like I feel like that
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nasty cloud is trailing behind me now like I feel like January and like part of February I
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was like get the [ __ ] out of here and it did it was like all right bye and it left and now I woke up this morning and
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I was like you know what no one shot down a new phone today no one's seen one as far as I'm concerned
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as far as I'm concerned there you go yeah Ash was just leaning towards the microphone to say I was like that we
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know of but then just when I was like you know and I was like okay like we're going
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okay but then it got ratcheted up a notch because ghost is coming back to the United States this year and I am so
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excited she's [ __ ] a dick [ __ ] a whole dick [ __ ] a dick we need to get Tobias back on the Pod to talk about
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all the things that was the most you're a cuckoo bird everywhere conversation everywhere ever
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and I want to have it again I want to have it again so we got to do that but guys I'm so excited and all my all my
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ghost people that have reached out since this whole like Obsession has started I
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know you feel me right now we're all excited so that was an exciting thing and I felt
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like it was it kicked off a good a good day it really did feeling good about it it really did I agree with you but today
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even though it's a good day it's no UFO all go stay that we know of I'm gonna take you not a pet down down down you
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usually do yeah and this is um but when it comes to episode yeah you usually you
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do take me to take a look just down and this is gonna be a two-patter kid oh two
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pilots it's a big case I want to give you time to digest the beginning before I give you the the crazy conclusion
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okey-dokey So today we're going to be talking about Harvey glattman oh who is known as the glamor girl Slayer I know
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him yeah I know him I've seen him uh yeah no fortunately if you look up this case online I just want to put it out to
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you there are crime scene photos so I just want to give you a little warning that if you're like Harvey glattman and
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then you just go to images you're gonna see at least like that they're disturbing in a different way okay
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um because his photos he would take photos of them like before during after yeah so there's some there's some very
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strange ones I just wanted to warn you guys just in case because I know I like to look up pictures while I listen to
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something as we all do but not like in these pictures yes so Harvey glattman like I said the glamor girl Slayer he
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was known to be active in Los Angeles from the summer of 1957 to 1958. not long but in that time he caused an
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unimaginable amount of damage uh he kidnapped and murdered women and then dumped their bodies in the LA desert and
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he was only caught when he would be murder victim named Lorraine vigil managed to escape his car
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I said escaped I'm not really sure why Escape his car and run to a nearby police patrol unit for help damn yeah so
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glatman had a long history of really Disturbing Behavior even in childhood and I'm gonna go through all that don't
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worry but having committed his crimes before you know the FBI's Behavioral Science unit really became a thing and
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at the time there was really no one who was understanding or really studying serial killers and their psychology at
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the time he really didn't get a nickname uh he got a nickname but it wasn't for what he was doing at the time and while
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he was active he wasn't even really like a big name in The Press which is concerning yeah that's actually kind of
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crazy it's like the 50s of it all you know they were like no just make bread and serve your husband and everything
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will be fine sorry I had to take supporter um what's interesting about this case is
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that even in the mid to late 2000s detectives discovered new glatman victims in his home state of Colorado
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and a supposed victim once believed to be dead was found to be alive and well in Australia holy [ __ ] yeah and that's
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gonna be in part two oh okay but don't worry I'm gonna lead all the way up there so this is a crazy case so let's
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talk about Harvey glattman as a child because my goodness there were signs yeah so
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Harvey glattman was born in the Bronx New York on December 10 1927 what is he a Sagittarius September what 10th
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September 10th um that's me and Drew's anniversary look at that Sagittarius no hold on a second
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I think that's Libra was right before Capricorn um Sagittarius is like December yeah
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December 10th Oh I thought you said September no I was like that's why I was like I'm fairly certain it's a
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Sagittarius yes it is okay um sorry I was like I I think it is also that's not me Andrew the anniversary September I
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didn't think it was I was very confused I was like are you okay like what's going on
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I said September 10th and she said yeah so you I misheard you and you misheard me and then we misread each other we
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just [ __ ] each other up we did but I think you're right I think that's sad yeah I think so
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um but Harvey was born to Albert and Ophelia gladman I love the name Ophelia I do too so cute uh the couple had met
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two years earlier when they were working together at the instructor millinery Supply I like that instructor the
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instructor they were married like pretty quickly after they started dating and a
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year after they were married Albert used all of their savings to open a small stationary store uh oh this is a pretty
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big Financial Risk at the time especially as they were growing their family too but we'll see how it goes
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now in the early years of his life Ophelia his mom referred to her son as quote apparently a healthy normal child
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I love the Apparently here I know he was apparently pretty healthy like I don't know apparently like you were in charge
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of that so they got the Apparently before all of that is a little concerned maybe she means like he appeared to be
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but what lurked beneath this yeah apparently but then Ophelia herself began noticing Harvey engaging in
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instances of strange Behavior she would refer to it oh God I'm so scared of this
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like I can't wait to have kids yeah like if they're doing some some [ __ ] [ __ ]
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like this this was very early too very early strange Behavior so it kind of contradicted what she said that he was
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apparently very normal and healthy then she's like nah he was there was some strange [ __ ]
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so according to Ophelia this is very graphic it just gets a little weird in here uh
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when Harvey was three or four years old he would I'm so upset and I'm going to quote
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he would tie a string around his penis place the loose end in a drawer then lean back against the string
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why was he left to that many devices as a three or four-year-old thank you and I
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was like that's a lot of times baller that he knew like how to tie a knot it's a three or four baller that he died
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you know but pretty baller pretty baller that you know how to do that but uh maybe tie your shoes instead Harps yeah
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so like did they I don't know who you even call about that definitely not not Ghostbusters like yeah
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this was in the 50s yeah this is a very different even now you'd be like whoa I don't know
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what to do with that but you would call someone in the 50s embarrassment was a big thing yeah
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keeping like that thing we don't talk about that and by the way a lot of them I've there was a really good source that
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um Dave actually found Dave um his name the author's name is Michael Newton and it's called rope the Twisted life and
00:16:12
crimes of Harvey glattman uh it's a really good book we're gonna uh we're gonna get Lincoln in the show notes I
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just wanted to say a lot of these Quotes come from that book Okay so yeah so that
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was a little strange Ophelia did admit like that was probably a little unusual that behavior tad bit but at the time
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she was thinking okay kids go through weird phases where they're curious about their genitalia and like maybe this is
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just a very weird to me way of him exploring that well yeah I mean like kids it's like it's a lot but like they
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like rub themselves up against you that's the thing and you know that's the thing because we we have to remember
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this is the 50s and we have to remember you're always going to want to explain something like that away yeah especially
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like especially when it's your kid so yeah it's just like you gotta look at it like you know kids are weird they go
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through and when you look at it with the benefit of hindsight after seeing what he did yeah that's real [ __ ] weird
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and that's clearly a red flag but at the time I can understand maybe she was trying to convince that
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would scare me a little bit I'm gonna be honest I would call someone but I'm also
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not a 50s housewife and that's the thing we have someone to call yeah so you got
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to take all that into account but there does come some more later that I'm like yeah lots of people really I gotta do
00:17:32
something about that so uh by all accounts though outside of that situation Harvey's life was like pretty
00:17:40
normal at home like there wasn't anything going on it was pretty in line with that of his peers at the time uh he
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was an only child so his mom kind of doted on him as much as possible while Albert his father was the one to be kind
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of the primary disciplinarian there wasn't any straight up abuse in the household he was just a strict dad
00:18:00
at the time he was also very disapproving of Harvey's chronic masturbation issue
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well you know that he seemed to develop very young uh he told Harvey that it was
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going to cause him to get acne if he continued doing it I think maybe more like erectile dysfunction later in life
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I don't know about act but I think it's like the Harry Palms thing I think that's like a religious thing
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that like if you masturbate you're gonna get Harry Potter that's hilarious yeah like I think that's a thing is it like
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Psalms P what is it it was a joke like it was like a religious joke because like Psalms oh
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I was like what does that say I literally couldn't spell that my words wow it's Monday you ruined for sure sorry
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that was a funny joke I like that probably both hairy Psalms yeah it's I think that's what it was it
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was just like probably back then it was very common to tell your kid like don't jack off or you're gonna get acne or
00:19:01
something it's like when your mom says like don't lie or your tongue's gonna turn exactly it's just one of those
00:19:06
things yeah and of course you know he was the primary disciplinary and like I said but it wasn't abuse but it was a
00:19:13
50s households so like it was abuse but we just didn't call it exactly it was abuse by our standards yeah but in the
00:19:20
50s it was just like you're just reason but I don't know any instances of him being like beaten brutally or something
00:19:29
like that you know what I mean but who knows because there isn't a ton known about his early life so yeah
00:19:38
[Music] I'm Ash and I'm Elena we host the hit show morbid normally we focus on what
00:19:50
happens in the lead up to death but this time it's about what happens next if you
00:19:56
had the chance to be brought back to life hundreds of years in the future would you take it Lauren's Pilgrim a
00:20:04
lifelong scientist planned for death his entire life because for him death wasn't
00:20:09
the end it was just the beginning wondery's new podcast Frozen head tells the story of a man obsessed with
00:20:17
immortality and the lengths he'll go to bring his wife with him against her wishes tearing their family apart in the
00:20:25
process follow Frozen head wherever you get your podcasts hey Prime members you can binge the entire series ad free on
00:20:33
Amazon music download the Amazon music app today [Music] foreign from the looks of it there was no
00:20:52
straight up abuse that anybody was aware of okay but we know that things can happen that we don't know about yeah we
00:20:57
know that in the 50s like the belt was a big thing exactly that that do be abused
00:21:01
that's definitely abuse so Ophelia may have been able to dismiss that one strange drawer incident with his sexual
00:21:11
self-exploration there but then it started to get more frequent okay and it started to become um
00:21:18
slightly masochistic and again you do you literally but this is like a very small child that's
00:21:27
concerning yeah um by the time he was four years old four Harvey's favorite pastime was tying a
00:21:37
rope around his neck then looping the other end over a pipe or a board in the rafters holding it
00:21:45
tight and masturbating at the same time so at four years old he was performing auto-erotic asphyxiation how did he even
00:21:53
and that's like how did he even know how to do that exactly like then I'm I am not accusing anybody of like sexual
00:22:00
abuse or you know physical abuse I'm just saying who knows it could be somebody outside of the fact absolutely
00:22:06
but like something happens somewhere yeah like how did he just come up with that a four-year-old doesn't come up no
00:22:13
that's the thing so it's very strange and as that Michael Newton book points out that goes far beyond the typical
00:22:21
curiosity that a four-year-old or anyone of that age group would have with that kind of stuff because again curiosity is
00:22:28
a thing it can come off a little strange when they're little yeah but that's Way
00:22:32
Beyond and that's the one that I'm like uh yeah that's like adults maybe you should call Ghostbusters here like I
00:22:39
don't know call someone like the doctor now yeah it's and actually he points out
00:22:44
that this is a common thing that you would see this kind of uh potentially injury in like injuring play yeah would
00:22:53
be something that you might see in someone that is a victim of childhood sexual abuse oh that's sad though but
00:22:59
again we have zero reports of that we don't know right but it's just that is something you see it's an interesting
00:23:06
thing and does he ever say anything later about where that came from no one says that he was sexually abused he does
00:23:11
not say he was sexually abused okay uh his parents obviously don't and then he doesn't say anything about like like
00:23:16
doing that when he was little I think he later does like his crimes are very sexual in nature yeah so I mean there
00:23:24
was a clear thing there but I don't think even he understands it okay to be quite honest that's just me though but
00:23:31
neither like I said Harvey didn't report being abused in the home sexually physically nothing
00:23:38
his parents didn't but this again was the 50s so if he was being abused by someone outside of the home or in the
00:23:46
home for that matter silence would have been kind of par for the course oh man but I would have thought he would say
00:23:51
something maybe later but who knows again a lot of people go their whole lives and they don't say a word and
00:23:56
could have been repressed also exactly it could be in any number of things um but also at this time when he was
00:24:04
young Albert and Ophelia were spending tons of time at the store they had opened like 12 hours a day seven days a
00:24:11
week kind of thing so he was left to his own devices a lot like a babysitter like he would have a
00:24:18
babysitter but like also he was just kind of left to like roam around okay so it's like who knows who he ran into if
00:24:26
something could have happened or like what he like even like picked up a magazine yeah you don't know
00:24:31
but it's very interesting now in uh 1938 the glatmans actually moved to Denver Colorado and this was because of what
00:24:39
Ophelia referred to as increased economic activity I don't know where that economic
00:24:45
activity was because you know they really couldn't do a lot with that stationary shop and they ended up having
00:24:50
to close it down huh so he uh Albert ended up getting a job driving a taxi cab in Denver and Ophelia actually got a
00:24:59
job at a local hat shop to make ends meet so it didn't look like they were like thriving they were like at the
00:25:03
bottom but you know whatever Harvey kept up with the very strange and very frequent sexual behavior and not long
00:25:11
after they'd gone to Denver Albert Ophelia came home one evening to discover his neck swollen and rope
00:25:19
burned oh no and in interviews after he was arrested way later Harvey also said that he remembers several times one or
00:25:28
the both of his parents catching him masturbating and he said it was very disturbing to
00:25:34
his father in particular you would think his father used to be very upset about it and apparently his father had become
00:25:41
convinced that this Behavior was evidence of his son being queer now it's important to note this could be
00:25:48
any number of like the the what the term queer has so many meanings in the 50s especially could also be him saying
00:25:57
strange quote unquote or it could be referring to as like sexuality yeah who knows that's never distinguished between
00:26:07
right so I don't know either way he thought it was evidence of something that he deemed to be off of him so
00:26:16
unlike the first incident of unusual uh psychosexual Behavior we'll call it when
00:26:21
he was four years old that swollen neck and rope burns on Harvey's neck that got
00:26:26
everybody finally moving yeah I mean you could kill yourself very easily this is
00:26:32
when everybody was like we gotta find professional help here so Albert nofelia took him to the family physician
00:26:38
who um did the best that he could do by just prescribing him some pills here do some cocaine about it just do
00:26:47
some cocaine about some methamphetamine that'll do the you'll go your ghosts in your bloodstream just do some cocaine
00:26:53
about it um he also you know he was like here's some pills and then he was like you know
00:26:58
what you just need to keep this boy busy and he'll just grow out of it oh okay yeah he'll just grow out of this very
00:27:03
normal behavior um it makes sense at this time that his parents likely just wanted to make this
00:27:09
go away yeah out of Shame completely and the doctor probably just didn't want to
00:27:13
deal with it at the time like this is not a time where or didn't even know how to because like what was he probably was
00:27:20
was nowhere near like educated in that way no to be dealing with this kind of psychology right Behavior like that's
00:27:29
the thing he needed many more doctors this didn't need to just be the family physician that needed to be several
00:27:35
Specialists involved here and he just didn't get it so that same year Harvey began attending Sherman Elementary
00:27:42
School oh my God this is all before Elementary well this is actually where he was in junior high so this is when
00:27:47
he's going into junior high but it was at the Sherman Elementary School I guess I don't really know how that works okay
00:27:52
but that's where I was like I'm sure I know because when I saw it I was like wait what but yeah that's what it was
00:27:58
but he was actually a great student he excelled at the very least he was doing like average in school but he was really
00:28:06
above and beyond for most part it was social skills that he struggled with kids made fun of him a lot um they've
00:28:13
made fun of him for acne they said he had buck teeth and over developed ears he did have very large ears which later
00:28:20
in life we can make fun of him all we want yeah totally because he's a piece of [ __ ] but will that you feel bad for
00:28:26
the kids but the kid it's sad teachers said that he was very easily offended and very sensitive same uh same me too
00:28:34
and because of all this Harvey had developed a very deep fear of being around girls at this point because he
00:28:43
felt very inadequate whenever he was in their presence this isn't shocking considering the bullying and the
00:28:49
underdeveloped social skills of course he was going to be scared around girls yeah but Ophelia later reported that he
00:28:55
was so uncomfortable around women and girls that even later he would cross the street to avoid even passing one on the
00:29:01
sidewalk wow that's yeah that's Prime Time fear yeah I'm like I don't think that's uh that's a normal phase of
00:29:07
development you were walking down the street in a man's one thing like usually it's the it's that would be great
00:29:12
actually especially now like actually that would be nice if a man would just like cross over to the other side I
00:29:17
would be singing I got the power right for the rest of my day it would be like the Bruce Almighty theme yes I'd be like
00:29:25
wow I can do anything yeah it's really wild but when he wasn't in school he was actually in the Boy Scouts he worked a
00:29:31
part-time job he was a delivery boy and then he actually worked as a laboratory assistant which I was like oh oh
00:29:37
um he played music with this little band for a little while okay his whole you know his life while he was dealing with
00:29:44
some bullying again pretty unremarkable not huge things happening it's really just that behind the scenes
00:29:53
psychosexual Behavior that's happening with himself essentially right now but it's just not being taken care of if it
00:30:01
was being taken care of I wonder what would have happened I know because it just like right now he's just doing it
00:30:07
with himself but then he takes it out into the world yeah because that's where the
00:30:13
unremarkability and the Fairly normal outside worlds comes crashing down sure does Harvey's criminal career began at
00:30:21
age 12. wow yeah yep that was the first year that he was enrolled in Sherman Elementary and it began when he with
00:30:28
what he referred to as creeping which involved him breaking into apartments and just like stealing little items uh
00:30:36
he once stole a 26 caliber revolver at first it was like a game and he said he did it kind of just for the thrill of
00:30:43
doing it it like got him excited it's so scary though because it's like we say all the time if somebody is like cuckoo
00:30:49
kubuku enough to break into your house not knowing who the [ __ ] you are or what
00:30:53
the [ __ ] is inside they are a scary person they are a scary [ __ ] they are not to be trifled with if they
00:30:59
are ready to jump into your house without knowing 12 years old no fear of bringing a home like wow yeah and you
00:31:08
know what this just makes me think again that if you're looking for a tick tock follow for good self-defense and like
00:31:14
really good tips that pure power I think his name is on Tick Tock um he's [ __ ] amazing and he has a
00:31:21
podcast and he has the most soothing voice ever oh [ __ ] but he's very good at like telling you self-defense stuff
00:31:26
telling you just smart ways to keep yourself out of even having to use self-defense okay like he wants you to
00:31:33
like not even get to that point and he has like a whole like Amazon storefront where he puts things like items that he
00:31:40
feels are really good for self-defense and for protection and home security he's just like a really good follow hell
00:31:46
yeah he's very comforting he gives updates I think he's um he's a police officer former detective oh okay talking
00:31:52
about crimes against children yep yep yep so like like love him yeah and he's just he's really good to follow for like
00:31:59
updates on cases like the Idaho case and everything that's going on he just gives
00:32:03
like real unbiased just here's what I think is happening here good um but he's a really good follow so I just like I
00:32:10
want him to like blow up follow him you know him and this girl Sinister by well Sinister babe of course but there's
00:32:17
another one I just love giving you recommendations let's blow these tickets uh horror Chronicles on Tick Tock she
00:32:24
gives um horror movie recommendations she's [ __ ] awesome at it all of hers have any plus she gives she watches like
00:32:32
a million horror movies a second she's phenomenal that would rude and I think she's making her own she's actually
00:32:38
producing her own so go follow her horror Chronicles go follow her yeah I want her to blow up too
00:32:44
so yeah that's a little side change we might all get blown up let's just yeah you know UFOs are coming but let's let's
00:32:50
blow these people up and get them some get them some Bag before that happens um yeah so he's he's stealing these
00:32:58
items he's doing this for the thrill of it and at first he was like I just did it for the thrill of it but
00:33:04
oh I can pictures him going I'm doing it for a thrill what is that for uh what's
00:33:10
this from a song it's like I'm doing it follow it through I don't know something I was always I was
00:33:17
thinking of that song we are always running a little bit oh we switching up that
00:33:23
hill search there you go that's him so that's that's Harvey he's searching for the thrill of
00:33:31
it but unfortunately he brought it out of thrill behavior and into violent Behavior pretty quick he only marinated
00:33:39
in that thrill behavior for like a minute uh because now he was preferring to break into the homes of single women
00:33:45
like preferably single women 12. yep and sometimes at 12 no he would follow a woman home
00:33:55
force her into her bedroom gag her with a cloth while tying her arms with rope holy [ __ ] was he a big kid he was not a
00:34:06
big kid that's the thing but he had a gun he would flash that gun that's why he stole it and other times he would
00:34:12
unbutton their shirts and skirts to assault them and then just leave them so like
00:34:19
escalationstation.com like you that wasn't taken care of when it should have been taken care of and now we have this
00:34:25
holy [ __ ] and this is going to be a lot harder to stop and it doesn't so by the time he'd completed his
00:34:31
sophomore year of high school in 1944 he had really become bold with this Behavior because he just keeps getting
00:34:38
away he's getting worse and worse and he's getting away with it he'd stolen another gun from another apartment that
00:34:44
he broke into and would use that to threaten women on the streets he would pull them into like alleys and [ __ ] and
00:34:50
force them into undressing or giving him cash what the [ __ ] he had also taken up
00:34:56
photography on the side I was gonna say I knew that came into play at some point
00:34:59
and I know that sounds random but it will it will matter later yeah uh very ick um but yeah he would so now he's using
00:35:08
these guns that he's stolen and it's only women like he's got a thing with women and it's like what the [ __ ] is
00:35:15
going on then the very next year in May 1945 he was actually caught by the Denver Police as he was attempting to
00:35:23
break into the apartment of a single woman holy cow when the officers turned out his pockets they discovered pretty
00:35:29
long piece of rope and a pistol yeah and they knew exactly what he was going to be doing with it he was interrogated and
00:35:36
he confessed to burglarizing area Apartments but he would not admit to sexual assaults of course not he just
00:35:42
said he would burglarize he just liked the thrill of breaking in places [ __ ] liar he was charged with first degree
00:35:47
robbery and he was actually bailed out by his parents yeah they're not Ophelia and Albert are
00:35:54
not helping I just need to put that out there Harvey's parents were very much in
00:35:58
denial very much it was just sad when you think about it it is sad no one wants to believe their child is like
00:36:04
this but I also want to be like now's that hindsight that you need to look back on those other things and be like
00:36:09
yeah something's wrong and we need to get him help yeah but again the time period makes it a little more difficult
00:36:15
so I can understand it's just like we're looking at it through a 2023 lens it's frustrating it's very frustrating
00:36:21
um they just couldn't or wouldn't recognize what was happening here even though at this point it's like right in
00:36:27
front of them the man was showing a very severe hatred and aggressive aggression
00:36:31
towards women specifically and his mother Ophelia at the time said she just believed that her son had begun using
00:36:37
the break-ins and assaults as a means of meeting women mama what yeah like she said he's just really girl shy
00:36:46
take up speed dating [ __ ] and then she was actually quoted in an interview as saying he accosted girls in the
00:36:53
evening just for an approach or on another occasion he entered an apartment where girls were alone and molested them
00:36:59
in a similar way but never harmed anyone in a bodily way molesting someone is not harming them
00:37:05
bodily Ophelia we need to talk like girl look up your definition of molest that is what's so sad about this is it's like
00:37:13
she's fully sitting there being like what he only molested people yeah what the [ __ ] do you call that well then
00:37:21
that makes you wonder like what she went through exactly because I'm like if you
00:37:24
don't think that's harming someone like and if you've taught him that that is not harming someone has he gone through
00:37:30
something and he just doesn't he didn't realize that that's what that was yeah because he's been taught that that's
00:37:35
real [ __ ] weird with that statement Thank You by late spring of 1945 all the creeping and you know late night
00:37:44
activities that he had done had taken kind of a toll on his schoolwork he's falling behind yeah yeah he was a really
00:37:50
good student for most of his career but he was finishing High School in June of that year with like his grades falling
00:37:57
dramatically he did end up graduating apparently in like the top part of his class but that was literally only
00:38:03
because of his previous years right right um then on Sunday evening in mid-june so
00:38:09
Harvey approached Noreen Laurel on a Denver Street Corner excuse me and he approached her he flashed her pissed the
00:38:17
pistol at her like he had done a bunch of other other times and he told her to come along with him quietly oh no don't
00:38:22
you just want to throat punch him yes like some [ __ ] other things little [ __ ] stain walking up to you with his
00:38:28
big [ __ ] ears and flashing a pistol in your face yeah like I'm telling you to come with you you little turd
00:38:34
once he had her in the back in the back excuse me once he had her back at the car is what I meant to say Harvey tied
00:38:40
her hands with rope and demanded that she get in the car oh my God this poor girl she had to get in and at that point
00:38:46
he drove her out to Sunshine Canyon in the western part of the city and what happened there is kind of unclear okay
00:38:54
but Harvey later said that he removed her clothes and assaulted her before allowing her to leave and then even
00:39:00
giving her cab fare for the ride home what a kind God yeah wow Harvey and you know what in true yeah that's about
00:39:08
right fashion police reports and interviews at the time stressed that Noreen Laurel was not attacked or raped
00:39:15
and that the two had only quote laid down together all night yeah I bet that's about right like who do men think
00:39:24
they are just being able to like overpower women take what you want them like just take whatever the [ __ ] like
00:39:30
who the [ __ ] do you think you are exactly if not for a woman you wouldn't be here
00:39:37
go away so get the [ __ ] out you all [ __ ] yeah he's real gross I hate um of course luckily Noreen Laurel
00:39:46
immediately went to the police to report the kidnapping and assault and the Denver police were a little taken aback
00:39:53
at first by how familiar this looked yeah because they were like wait a second after all they had just arrested
00:39:58
Harvey glattman a month earlier for a very similar thing so they showed noreena series because he was breaking
00:40:04
into an apartment who literally assault someone right with all that [ __ ] um so they showed Noreen a series of mug
00:40:10
shots and she immediately identified Harvey as the man who abducted her and driven her out to Sunshine Canyon right
00:40:16
Harvey was arrested later that afternoon for the charge of molesting women and then released pending trial wow wow just
00:40:24
released imagine like you just are running around molesting women and you get released also I hate the word molest
00:40:31
I know it's really gross it is and his ears are yeah and huge he's such a little too many serious they are I'm
00:40:38
pissed at him at this point oh I forgot that you said that there's yeah guys do not Google him because that will happen
00:40:46
it's up to you on impact they're upsetting yeah they are um but by the summer of 1945 at just 17 years old
00:40:53
he's still only 17 years old here he had been arrested twice for assaulting and abducting women that's a pattern that's
00:41:01
a pathology and that's a [ __ ] problem gladman family yeah cause we're only going to like randomly escalated thank
00:41:09
you so Albert and Ophelia finally took Harvey to a psychologist yeah they only took him to the family
00:41:16
[ __ ] doctor yeah but probably the pediatrician who was like here you go here's some Flintstone vitamins you'll
00:41:21
be fine so Dr JP Hilton was the psychiatrist that they took him to I'm not um he was made very aware of Harvey's
00:41:29
history of very unusual sexual behavior and among the most noteworthy of Hilton's observations was that Harvey
00:41:36
was quote Sullen morose and very disrespectful and for several years had felt that everyone was against him
00:41:43
including his parents okay interesting very disrespectful like to say the least yeah like please say more
00:41:51
um but he actually diagnosed Harvey with schizophrenia huh but he offered absolutely no treatment option or any
00:41:59
more information other than recommending that he just plead not guilty by reason
00:42:03
of insanity okay thanks Doc I'm so glad that everyone is doing the absolute least
00:42:09
here what about his condition made you feel like he was schizophrenic exactly what is that what is that based on I
00:42:16
don't think a lot yeah I think that was I almost feel like that was like let's take him to a psychologist because you
00:42:23
know because he's insane because they they kind of almost admitted the parents that like they only took him to the
00:42:30
psychiatrist to help with the legal trouble yeah it sounds like that well and it sounds like this guy was like ah
00:42:35
schizophrenia yeah sure why not plead Insanity right it's no surprise that after that on September 30th 1945 Harvey
00:42:42
was arrested again wow we I know unfortunately this time we don't know a lot about the charges of this arrest
00:42:50
um because remember this is the 40s but it's unknown whether there was no bail set or whether his parents didn't have
00:42:56
the resources to bail him out this time but whatever the case he spent the next month and a half in jail good uh he
00:43:03
appeared in court on November 19th and he didn't plead Insanity as was suggested he pled guilty to first-degree
00:43:09
robbery and was sentenced to one to five years at Colorado State Penitentiary I was going to say maybe he just knew that
00:43:15
the yeah it wasn't going to work and pleading guilty will get you a lesser yeah exactly sentence and he probably
00:43:20
didn't want to go in a hospital exactly so while he was in prison in Colorado he
00:43:24
was evaluated by a second psychiatrist a real one who described him as quote somewhat embarrassed and shy boy who had
00:43:32
been a model in moight boy a name something you have a Shabbos sad boy but unlike the other doctor this
00:43:43
prison psychiatrist said he found no evidence of hallucinations or psychotic thought patterns saying quote there's
00:43:50
evidence of anxiety but emotions are well controlled practically no Fantasy Life is evident and the prison
00:43:57
psychiatrist concluded I feel this boy is probably a psychoneurosis compulsive or anxiety type without much depression
00:44:05
and I can find no evidence of schizophrenia and do not believe shock treatment is indicated which I was like
00:44:11
okay hello that's good well damn um so because of good behavior and being a model prisoner he got paroled after
00:44:19
serving just eight months of the one-year mandatory sentence and was released July 27 1946. great guys there
00:44:27
wasn't any women in there with him yeah like he has nothing to of course he's gonna keep his [ __ ] together there were
00:44:33
no women in there for him to assault exactly of course is going to be a model in me what's he gonna do like come on
00:44:40
that's the thing ah he makes me crazy me too by the way in later interviews with
00:44:45
the Press Ophelia said Harvey was seen by another psychiatrist upon release from prison prison why can't I talk
00:44:52
today you know it's the first day that I feel alive and I can't speak aliens um but yeah another psychiatrist saw him
00:44:58
when he was released from prison and his treatment recommendations included a trip out of state
00:45:04
and dancing lessons to increase the young man's confidence with girls a psychiatrist said this
00:45:12
dance lessons to make him stop kidnapping and sexually assaulting women can you imagine if you went to your
00:45:18
therapist and you were like hey I'm sad and they're like you know what you should do dance about it dance and go on
00:45:23
a trip or imagine going to your psychiatrist and being like hi I just got out of prison because I kidnapped
00:45:28
and sexually assaulted a woman with a pistol and that psychiatrist is like I think you have confidence issues you
00:45:35
should get some confidence with women let's have you dance with them no I think that will be fine you know what
00:45:40
you can use more confidence when you abduct and assault women yikes what the [ __ ] about him says that he doesn't have
00:45:47
confidence he's literally abducting women and forcing himself upon them that has a certain air of I get to do what I
00:45:55
want to do right about it that's the thing I love that their whole thing is like he's just trying to get a date a
00:46:00
poor Shy Boy I'm like yeah I don't think so yeah I love that trying to get his way everyone around him is like you know
00:46:06
it's it's very in-cell thinking like it's very in his in his family and everyone around him are just just right
00:46:13
along with it they're all like yeah it's the women's fault like maybe if they were nice to him he wouldn't have to be
00:46:19
a [ __ ] murderer and it's like I don't think that's right let them take him take them home then he wouldn't have to
00:46:25
hold a pistol at their house yeah like what the [ __ ] like oh okay yeah that works
00:46:30
thanks so of course Ophelia ever the doting mother I can't took Harvey to New York hoping the change of scenery would
00:46:39
maybe help him feel better here son here's some New York girls yeah here's a whole other
00:46:46
population for you to attack great uh it didn't which I know is shocking but his
00:46:53
prison stint didn't change him no he very shortly after arriving in New York bought a pocket knife and a cap gun that
00:47:00
looked very real and resumed his whole creeping thing and now it's so much easier in New York yeah it's a new place
00:47:07
again like almost like the scream uh read that we did March 10th go see screams radio silence
00:47:16
Samara weaving like Sweeney mcswooners also Kirby's back Kirby's back Kirby all right so on August 7th I mean it's on
00:47:23
August 17th less than one month month after being paroled in color I'm sorry I'm not I'm not on this planet I think a
00:47:30
new foe has taken part of me away oh no uh I don't know why I can't talk today you just got prone it's been a long few
00:47:36
weeks I think my brain and my mouth are just catching up with each other it's been a long life mama so Harvey right
00:47:43
after being paroled like one month Harvey approached two young women on the street in Yonkers and flashed a gun at
00:47:51
them he told them to be silent and he wouldn't hurt them one of the women luckily screamed her [ __ ] head off
00:47:59
good and Drew the attention of a man nearby who ran to them and screamed at Harvey was like I'm gonna [ __ ] you up
00:48:06
thank God for Good Men Harvey ran off into the night scared the [ __ ] out of him but it didn't scare him too badly
00:48:11
because shortly later the same evening after midnight Harvey was out once again prowling in the same exact area this
00:48:20
time he came upon Thomas starro and Doris Thorne who are just out together for a late night walk yeah he flashed a
00:48:29
fake pistol at them this time they were scared obviously and they complied they didn't want to get hurt yeah and they
00:48:36
walked with him into the dark area just beyond the road Harvey told Thomas to kneel on the ground and put his hands
00:48:42
behind his back I don't know when he did he stole 30 dollars from Thomas's wallet
00:48:46
the [ __ ] what the [ __ ] are you like get the [ __ ] out of here then he tied his
00:48:51
hands and feet then he turned his attention to Doris she must have been [ __ ] here so poor Thomas is kneeling
00:48:58
there with his hands and feet tied I can't do anything he instructed Doris to stand by a tree where he bound her hands
00:49:05
behind her back and began removing her shirt oh my God as he began doing this Thomas managed to get himself untied
00:49:14
jumped up and [ __ ] like linebacker tackled Harvey and completely unexpectedly beat the [ __ ] out of him
00:49:22
Harvey didn't hear him untying himself did not know he was coming just got [ __ ] sideswiped Taurus must have been
00:49:29
like mine Harvey put then though pulled the knife from his pocket and sliced Thomas's chest and abdomen oh two
00:49:39
or three times before running off oh my gosh luckily they both lived the couple reported the attack to police and by the
00:49:46
time the Yonkers Police Department released their alert for the man who attacked them Harvey had already left
00:49:51
the city and was on his way to Albany thank goodness but [ __ ] up in late August Harvey was not hanging with his
00:49:58
mom anymore and he actually started renting an apartment on Columbia a Columbia Street in Albany and he started
00:50:04
prowling once again on the night of August 22nd Florence Hayden had just left work and took the bus back to her
00:50:11
apartment after getting off of her stop she was just walking for a few minutes towards her apartment and she started to
00:50:17
realize she got that feeling like someone was following her right and when she looked she was like oh good it's
00:50:22
just a nurse like who was probably on her way to work so she was like okay I'm near the hospital that makes sense but
00:50:29
what Florence didn't see behind the nurse was Harvey following and stalking hiding behind I'm the nurse when the
00:50:36
nurse turned down towards the street down the street towards the hospital Harvey made his move and rushed Florence
00:50:42
by from behind jammed the gun into her back and told her not to make a sound he stole whatever she had in her purse and
00:50:49
then forced her into a dark backyard there he instructed her to turn around and put her hands behind her back
00:50:56
Florence is a Smart Cookie though and as he began tying her hands with the Rope she realized that if he was using both
00:51:03
hands to bind her he wouldn't be able to aim or shoot a gun boom so with this in
00:51:08
mind she just turned around to face Tim pushed him as hard as she could and screamed as loud as she could smart girl
00:51:16
the sharpness of that movement and the unexpected screaming at him scared the [ __ ] out of Harvey he did not see that
00:51:23
coming so he just ran off good but she immediately went to the police and reported this luckily everyone's
00:51:29
reporting which is good but I know because especially back then that didn't always happen because unfortunately you
00:51:34
don't see it a lot they were just like yeah that's your fault yeah exactly and that does happen at some point yeah so
00:51:39
that didn't scare him enough though because the next night he tried another assault this time he jumped out at teens
00:51:47
Beverly Goldstein and Evelyn Berger as they walked down the sidewalk yeah he waved his fake gun in their faces he
00:51:54
demanded money from them but once they handed over the money he suddenly realized that he wasn't proud he wasn't
00:52:01
going to be able to bind an assault one without the other one either running or trying to stop him like he hadn't
00:52:07
thought this through thinking so he took the cash and ran wow luckily he's a [ __ ] idiot luckily Evelyn and Beverly
00:52:14
went directly to the police and reported the assault [ __ ] idiot he is like he literally went through with this and I
00:52:21
was like oh [ __ ] oh wait a minute yeah one of them's probably gonna try to help
00:52:24
the other huh [Music] thank you now this is the first time that Harvey actually got some kind of nickname but
00:52:44
it was like he became known he was he was feared at this point in the community because he was attacking
00:52:50
people and he was he was being called The Phantom Bandit wow which is really bad it's crafty that's really bad and
00:52:57
apparently he was a real pain in the ass to the Albany Police because they just couldn't seem to NAB him he would just
00:53:02
disappear into the darkness now Police Commissioner James Kerwin and night Chief William Mooney at the Albany
00:53:09
Police Department coordinated with the Albany Police detective Bureau and they mounted what what was at the time
00:53:16
referred to as the most intensive Manhunt conducted in recent memory [ __ ] so they were really going for it yeah
00:53:23
like there was a lot riding on this they had detectives and Patrol officers everywhere and even volunteering to work
00:53:28
overtime to catch the Phantom good um this paid off because two days later on August 25th two detectives spotted
00:53:37
someone matching the Phantom description that had been given by all the victims because luckily they all could describe
00:53:42
him um and I love it because part of the description said that he had quote big ears holding up a pair of horned Rim
00:53:49
glasses accurate um I support bullying here not only did he match the physical description but as
00:53:56
the detective watched this asshat he was intense intently following a young woman
00:54:01
who seemed completely oblivious to his presence they were just watching him follow her wow like watching him in real
00:54:07
time so they immediately approached him with their guns drawn what you doing they
00:54:12
literally walked up and were like yeah like just right in his face yeah and instructed him to turn out his pockets
00:54:17
inside he had his fake cap gun yup a length of rope and his wallet which contained 24 dollars
00:54:24
now he was taken into custody without much incident while a second patrol unit searched
00:54:30
Harvey's apartment where they found several personal items belonging to previous victims crazy ding ding ding
00:54:37
it's the Bandit there he is so Harvey sang like a bird that sings a canary the canary sing yes yeah they think uh he's
00:54:46
saying no that's the phrase anyway yeah he's saying like a bird sing don't they they do right like a morning
00:54:53
Glory Glory no is that flower that might be a flower I think it is a flower I don't know either way he spilled the tea
00:55:01
at the station he told them everything he talked about prison his criminal history his assaults and robberies and
00:55:08
Yonkers only weeks earlier all of it he was proud of himself like thought it was great oh authorities
00:55:15
in Colorado we're like oh hey he's on parole so they were willing to charge yeah they were
00:55:21
like that's a parole violation um they were like hey Albany will you extradite him and we'll we'll charge him
00:55:26
too um and also police and Yonkers were like oh hey can we also have him because of
00:55:31
that violent assault on Thomas and Doris over here thanks but authorities in Albany were like well we want to
00:55:37
prosecute him for the three attacks first yeah so on August 28th a grand jury in Albany indicted Harvey for
00:55:43
robbing Florence Hayden by means of force and by placing her in fear of immediate injury okay all of the added
00:55:51
potential charges in the different places were going to be a problem for him yeah so he eagerly accepted the DA's
00:55:57
offer offer for a reduced sentence for a guilty plea okay in early October he was
00:56:02
sentenced to five to ten years and was sent to Elmira Reformatory on October 24th 1946 to serve that sentence
00:56:10
now he was evaluated by a physician and a psychiatrist when he was admitted to the prison they always do that and he
00:56:17
completed an IQ test and he got a score of 126. wow so the psychiatrist Dr Ralph
00:56:23
Ryan Kell noted that he was quote endowed with Superior intelligence which is unfortunate I wonder if he had a
00:56:29
superiority complex he could have and this is what he wrote he said in his notes um you can see this in the Michael
00:56:35
Newton book too he said because of his conforming attitude and high level of ability he will probably have no
00:56:42
difficulty in an institution and will do well in any program to which he is assigned in accordance with his ability
00:56:48
yeah however unless he receives intensive Psychotherapy it is not likely that a correctional institution will
00:56:55
improve his deep-seated personality difficulties I think we've already proved that which make him a potentially
00:57:01
dangerous individual to be at Large I'm going to go out on a limb here and say we should listen when psychiatrists
00:57:08
give this blunt and insightful of a [ __ ] evaluation I would initially Harvey reports that his criminal
00:57:15
activities were just motivated on quote the impulse to become famous or do something unusual
00:57:21
something unusual but then he later said it was the impulse to hold up women tie
00:57:26
them up and watch them afforded him sexual gratification and gave him a sense of stimulation oh so he was
00:57:34
officially diagnosed as Psychopathic personality schizophrenic type oh and that was due to that other diagnosis of
00:57:42
schizophrenia yeah um and they said without proper treatment he will remain a threat to the
00:57:48
public but they were all like yeah that's fine and let me just let him out they didn't give him proper treatment
00:57:52
well finally this is when his parents seemed to kind of take it even more seriously Ophelia actually told Dr Ryan
00:57:58
kale that she and Albert would consent to brain surgery or a frontal lobotomy wow if there was no other options for
00:58:05
treatment because she literally said she wished him dead over living life as a criminal deviant oh okay so given the
00:58:13
time period and the pattern of behavior before this it could be that his parents
00:58:18
finally saw this as something that needed to be taken care of for betterment purposes right or they could
00:58:23
have still felt a little shamed and felt like a lobotomy would just kind of incapacitate and take care of the issue
00:58:29
the fact that they were like you know what just lobotomized just lobotomize that [ __ ] [ __ ] not sure or why but on
00:58:34
September 9 1948 after serving two years at Alba Almira Harvey was transferred to
00:58:40
Sing Sing prison along the Hudson River just outside New York City no one knows why his behavior was not as good
00:58:47
despite he was getting like good behavior reports but he got was getting rave reviews that's what he was he had
00:58:54
five stars but when he went to sing sing he got he also got good reports of behavior okay um he was part of their
00:59:01
radio repair program which later becomes a job for him uh the psychiatrist at sing-sing said his Outlook was
00:59:08
unfortunately poor yeah and insisted that he quote should be psycho-educated and if still anti-social should be
00:59:15
segregated even if schizophrenia does not seem to develop huh and the psychiatric report also said
00:59:22
that his IQ was at 1 30. oh wow which was four points higher than the previous day that's a solid solid amount of
00:59:29
points what's interesting even more so though is that the state parole board submitted another report a year later in
00:59:36
August of 1949 and his IQ was at 90. huh so somehow it dropped 40 points in 12 months that's interesting the report
00:59:45
doesn't give a reason to really even acknowledge this like big deviation yeah right the thing is though one he could
00:59:52
have been tired sick anything when he took that test two he could have done it on purpose yeah because why the [ __ ] at
00:59:59
that point he's like what else do I have to do yeah it just it's but it's just a
01:00:02
strange little like how the [ __ ] did that happen at one is it always the same exact test geez that's the thing I don't
01:00:07
know so who knows now after two and a half years at sing-sing with six months taken off for good behavior he was
01:00:14
granted parole I must go on April 16 1951 but he would have to remain under Court supervision for five more years
01:00:22
uh he was now sent to Yonkers because he had warrants there for his arrest for Thomas and Doris the attack on them this
01:00:29
was a big charge considering what he had done to them yeah he was facing serious
01:00:34
time for this one fortunately for Harvey and unfortunately for everyone else in the entire world
01:00:39
his lawyer and the Yonkers charge said that the court had known about Harvey's whereabouts since 1946 they could have
01:00:46
prosecuted him at any point in the previous five years and they didn't so this would be a violation of his sixth
01:00:53
amendments right to a speedy public trial oh that's open and shut the judge in the case said yeah that's he yeah
01:01:00
that's no other choice the charges were dismissed my god dude yeah and then the parole board in New York approved
01:01:08
Harvey's proposed plan to move back to Denver and live with his parents they just said he needed to maintain
01:01:14
regular check-ins with the court he had to have outpatients outpatient therapy and um he had to keep a job I think okay
01:01:21
so Harvey returned to Denver in the fall of 1951 and he met with psychiatrist Dr
01:01:27
Franklin ebaugh Franklin Franklin for an evaluation uh he also was there to get treatment recommendations but Eva Eva
01:01:36
diagnosed Harvey as a secondary psychopath what's that mean he said his feelings of inadequacy poor adaptability
01:01:43
impulsivity and the fact that he is very critical in somewhat hostile towards his
01:01:48
environment would be reason enough for him to attend at least monthly therapy sessions okay
01:01:54
but that was it okay he never returned but he got that recommendation and that was it thanks
01:02:02
for your wreck yeah he just didn't he didn't come back and then years later after Harvey had been arrested for
01:02:07
murder later in Los Angeles Dr Eva actually said Harvey quote was relatively free of all symptoms at the
01:02:15
time of evaluation oh yeah totally I bet failures you're all failures like what the [ __ ] so he's just ignoring that
01:02:23
psychiatric you know that he has to attend therapy he's ignoring that he's like nah I don't feel like it yeah no
01:02:28
big deal but he definitely got a job right he didn't no for the first three and a
01:02:34
half years he lived with his parents in Denver he was just completely unemployed
01:02:37
and how old is he at this point at this point he's like in his early I think he's early 20s yeah yeah
01:02:43
now according to his mother he was unable to find a job because quote no Bonding Company would give him Bond
01:02:48
Ophelia stop like you can't find a job oh stop it Ophelia then in October of 1952 a year after he
01:02:58
had come home Albert glapman died of complications of diabetes oh that's sad I know it is sad and as a result Ophelia
01:03:06
had to work a lot more to make ends meet so she's out more yeah so she actually opened a small hat shop in Denver and
01:03:14
Harvey was kind of left to his own devices again we all know what happens when Harvey's left to his own
01:03:19
[ __ ] devices it's not good we don't want it yeah yeah now finally that year he found or no excuse me uh two
01:03:27
years later in 1954 he actually finally found employment at a Denver butcher shop oh no but don't worry he abandoned
01:03:35
that job after 10 months we don't really know why okay 10 months that's pretty good yeah a parole summary from this
01:03:41
time actually shows him his employment history uh they they label it as erratic I would say because he worked in just
01:03:49
two years he worked as radio and television repair jobs mattress filler truck driver shipping clerk butcher like
01:03:57
everywhere is a mattress filler just somebody who likes stuff's mattresses maybe imagine I feel like that'd be a
01:04:03
really soothing job I mean I don't know what they stuffed mattresses with it's probably poisonous probably like
01:04:08
asbestos probably probably just straight up asbestos I mean you know yeah yeah um apparently according to the report he
01:04:15
had difficulty in adjusting with some of his employers and was often fired for insubordination and arrogant Behavior
01:04:22
Harvey no yeah which also I'm like you're pretty bold to look like you do and be so arrogant and Harpy you're
01:04:29
pretty bold pretty [ __ ] bold be on parole and I give you a job you're a dick about it I just can't ask that I
01:04:35
just love that that guy looked in the mirror every day and was bold in any way it's usually those ones like what a
01:04:42
little [ __ ] turd yeah oh no on September 7th 1956 uh he was discharged from parole after doing nothing he was
01:04:50
supposed to do so awesome that system worked really well in that instance now he was just completely free and clear he
01:04:57
didn't have any charges nothing he can just go so finally at this point he's 28 years old and he can do whatever the
01:05:04
[ __ ] he wants and what he wanted to do was get as far away from Denver in as far away from his mom as he could so in
01:05:11
January of 1957 he moved to Los Angeles California he had Big Dreams of becoming a star he
01:05:18
certainly did now remember Harvey from like the beginning of his life has had someone telling him what to do not just
01:05:26
his parents but like bosses jailers parole officers in Los Angeles no one this is the first time he is free he's
01:05:35
writing the script yeah something that with someone who has his particular interests would be very appealing oh
01:05:43
yeah because remember this is a big city it's Los Angeles you can go around unnoticed no one's going to notice a
01:05:49
little strange Behavior so remember he did the radio repair program at sing-sing and he worked on like on and
01:05:56
off in radio and television repair once he was paroled so he quickly found work in La at the in those kind of jobs
01:06:03
um it wasn't super steady work but he could cover rent for a small apartment he was renting on Melrose Avenue
01:06:10
um and if he couldn't cover the rent Ophelia would just send him money yeah well she would yeah and right now at
01:06:16
this point he's really going further into his uh interest in photography that he started in high school which I
01:06:21
mentioned yeah you did now this is La in the later 50s almost the 60s actresses and models are everywhere looking for
01:06:28
their Big Break um and at this time you could find like it there was all those stories of like
01:06:33
you know this this gal was just waiting in line at a diner and this man came up and said you need to be in pictures you
01:06:39
know like it's just this was that time literally so during this time period those who felt so inclined and couldn't
01:06:46
find that kind of work yet but still wanted to be in the realm of some kind of entertainment they could make ends
01:06:52
meet by posing for kind of low brow men's magazines yeah other photographers that had like
01:06:59
questionable quote credentials that's how like Betty Page started exactly this was a very big thing the detective
01:07:05
magazines you know like that kind of stuff um nobody really wanted to do it but it
01:07:10
would pay the bills so at nearly 30 years old in 1957 he had Harvey had not had a consensual sexual encounter at
01:07:20
this point wow he's almost 30. he has not seen a woman nude of their own volition that's nuts and let that
01:07:29
sink in he's never full-blown raped not that we know this point that we know of not that we know of every encounter he
01:07:36
has had sexually or with a naked woman has been violently forced upon them wow yes that's wild isn't that wild to think
01:07:46
about heartbreaking for those women so heartbreaking now in Los Angeles all he had to do was call one of those modeling
01:07:55
agencies or place an ad in the back of a magazine looking for models and women would come to him so the photography of
01:08:03
it all actually worked his benefit for a few reasons one being that it was easy to put an ad in there call a modeling
01:08:10
agency and say you're a photographer it also made him seem legit and trustworthy
01:08:14
especially if he creeped agency exactly and for someone so uncomfortable and self-conscious in the presence of women
01:08:21
the camera was also a nice little barrier between himself and them it kind of gave him this like control feeling
01:08:28
without having a weapon in his hands yeah even though it kind of was his wife but it was his weapons so he went about
01:08:34
just luring and taking photos of nude women for a while always under a fake photographer name yeah he was kind of
01:08:39
testing the waters a little bit seeing how this all worked yep but after a few months he wasn't just content to hide
01:08:46
behind the camera and watch naked women uh so in summer of 1957 he decided to escalate and boy did he Harvey's first
01:08:56
Target was Lynn Michaels a woman he'd photographed a few months earlier while he was posing as Johnny Glenn
01:09:03
a professional commercial photographer was he like hey by the way that's not my name no he just came that that was what
01:09:09
he pretended his name was and Harvey's plan was to show up at Michael's apartment they know each other a little
01:09:15
bit from that one counter comfortable exactly and he's like he was just gonna show up and say you know what like I
01:09:21
need to do a photo shoot will you be my model and then he was planning to sexually assault her once he managed to
01:09:26
get inside he'd even purchased a 32 caliber pistol just in case oh my God on the evening of July 13th he drove to her
01:09:34
apartment and knocked on her door but what he didn't think about was maybe she doesn't live alone
01:09:40
oh yep and it never crossed his mind that she could live with someone else yeah wait that I mean I'm happy like I'm
01:09:47
glad but I'm like you don't think anything else you're an idiot uh so somebody else answered the door and he
01:09:53
knew he couldn't restrain two people at once he had failed at that several times
01:09:56
already so we had to think of another clan so it was lyko's roommate who answered the door and she ended up
01:10:02
letting him in and told him you know Lynn isn't home and as she told him this Harvey noticed another
01:10:09
blonde attractive female a picture of one hanging on the wall okay and she he walked over to it and he was like who's
01:10:17
this and the blonde in the photos was 19 year old Judy Ann doll the girl's other
01:10:23
roommate she was also a sometimes pinup model okay she is breathtaking pinup work is like my
01:10:30
favorite kind of model if you look her up you're like holy [ __ ] Judy was also out when um Judy wasn't in like wasn't
01:10:37
in the apartment she was out when Harvey had arrived so the roommate gave him the
01:10:41
phone number and was like you should just call another time and maybe they'll want to work with you yeah by 1957 let's
01:10:48
talk about um Judy for a minute by 1957 Judy had been modeling for a while um she had actually already at 19 been
01:10:57
married and divorced oh wow um because and at the time she was in like a very intense custody battle for her
01:11:05
one-year-old daughter so she was trying to make any extra money she could for like court fees and [ __ ] and just to
01:11:12
like prove that she could take care of her and of course he's gonna use that to it he's going to pray on that Harvey had
01:11:17
come unexpectedly to the apartment at one point saying his name was Johnny Glenn and that her roommates knew him
01:11:24
like he had come back to the apartment and he was saying you know he needed someone for a rush job it was a pulp
01:11:30
novel cover and she would be perfect for it and she wasn't jumping at the chance
01:11:34
when she answered the door she was like she was like hesitant she just had a feeling like probably that like you know
01:11:40
this I think this is the guy that my roommate described as kind of a creep I'm not sure like she's seen a lot of
01:11:46
photographers but I just I don't know I think this is the one but Harvey kind of
01:11:49
pushed a little saying it was an emergency and if she wasn't interested because she could she just get one of
01:11:55
the other girls on the phone because he'll take one of them okay this is when she was like fine and she led him into
01:12:00
the apartment yeah now when he arrived he told Judy that a friend's photo studio had actually just become
01:12:07
available unexpectedly and he was like would you mind switching the location instead of being at your apartment could
01:12:13
we go to the studio and she really didn't want to because she was like no I feel safe in my apartment yeah because I
01:12:19
have two roommates that could come in at any time and like I don't know about that like you didn't say we were going
01:12:24
somewhere but the money was really good that he was saying of course that was she needed to work as much as possible
01:12:29
to get money together for the custody hearing so she agreed and left the apartment in Harvey's black George Dodge
01:12:36
Coronet so they ended up not going to a studio but going to Harvey's apartment she went inside because she was focused
01:12:45
solely on making money for her daughter and that kills me once inside he explained that the photos were for a
01:12:51
detective style magazine and he'd be shooting her in bondage oh no so he tied her hands behind her back he bound her
01:12:58
ankles and then he began shooting poses of Judy in various poses she was on a chair at one point she was laying on a
01:13:06
rug eventually Judy was like I'm uncomfortable and I'm wrestling I didn't want to get out of him yeah like I've
01:13:12
done enough but he wouldn't untie her instead he just placed her onto a chair and told her that he was going to keep
01:13:18
her tied up while he quote had some fun with her oh my God he then flashed the gun at her and was like do you know I'm
01:13:25
serious now oh my God now unfortunately we only get Harvey's side of the story in a lot of these but his version that
01:13:34
he told detectives is that he claimed once he made those intentions clear he removed the gag from Judy's mouth and
01:13:41
told her he'd kill her if she yelled she nodded in agreement and according to him
01:13:46
Judy told him that she was a nymphomaniac and that she wouldn't cause any trouble for him
01:13:51
I highly highly highly doubt that I would go on the record saying that that's most likely not true I'm gonna
01:13:58
say it right now that's 100 not true no like anybody in that position is not going to be like well don't worry about
01:14:04
me because I'm an infomaniac so this is great like that's not sex not being raped and he brought up that she said
01:14:12
that she was an info so it was fine but that she um she was in a custody hearing
01:14:18
and she had one coming up and didn't want anything being used against her so that's why she wouldn't cause any
01:14:24
trouble for him what like that's like that doesn't make any sense so Harvey dragged her from the chair in the living
01:14:30
room to the hallway floor and he just left her there while he went to get a drink of water in the kitchen okay when
01:14:35
he came back he found that she was bleeding from one of her nostrils oh wow that's crazy how'd that happen yeah I
01:14:41
bet you didn't hit her you [ __ ] [ __ ] so he said he used an old pillowcase to hold against her nose
01:14:46
until it stopped bleeding oh yeah because he's just a kind thoughtful Soul now once she was cleaned up he stripped
01:14:52
her of her clothing and he said that he said that Judy seemed to be partially enjoying it
01:15:01
that's disgusting yeah yeah um yeah so he raped Judy twice in his apartment stopping occasionally to take more
01:15:11
photographs of her during the whole thing when he was done he made her go to the bathroom and get dressed when she
01:15:18
returned from the bathroom he sat on the couch with her for hours and talk to her yep like she said he
01:15:28
said Judy um like he was asking her what she was going to tell her roommates when
01:15:32
they got home whether or not she was going to go to the police Judy was trying to convince him she wouldn't go
01:15:37
to the police she wouldn't say anything he said they watched TV for like two hours and that's probably when she said
01:15:42
I have a custody battle going so I'm not gonna give you any trouble exactly I'm not going to go to the police I'm not
01:15:48
going to go to the police I don't want to be not like yeah totally go ahead and have your way with me exactly but he's a
01:15:53
piece of [ __ ] now he said he really struggled with himself over what to do next oh I bet but and he said he didn't
01:16:00
want to go to he didn't want to kill her but she knew he knew she would go to the
01:16:03
police and that she knew where he lived now so he was like I would go back to prison I
01:16:08
got a killer yeah so about 10 30 p.m Harvey told Judy he was going to drive her out to the sticks and he said I'll
01:16:16
leave you out there with enough Fair bus fare to get home but if you try anything
01:16:21
along the way I'm gonna kill you and she probably thought that that was true because he just sat with her for hours
01:16:26
exactly she's she's thinking I'm gonna get in the car and this is fine now once he'd gotten her into the car he drove
01:16:32
South for nearly 100 miles oh my God before turning onto a road that led into the desert near Indio that's like two
01:16:40
hours yes he said he told her he wanted to have sex with her once more what he meant was I want to rape you I was going
01:16:48
to say you didn't have sex before he lets her go and he said he told Judy so he took a blanket from the trunk of the
01:16:54
car brought her to a darker spot in the distance in the desert he spread the blanket out on the ground and he said
01:16:59
after he got her settled on the ground he tied the Rope around her ankles then around her neck and used his body weight
01:17:06
to strangle her holding tight to the Rope for about five or ten minutes until he was certain she was dead so he
01:17:13
grotted her yeah yeah that's [ __ ] brutal now Harvey said he sat with Judy's body for a long time as
01:17:20
he processed what he had just done and he said for an instant I wanted to undo what I'd just done I lifted her head up
01:17:28
and called out her name no you didn't no you didn't he carried her body over to a
01:17:33
patch of sand and then he just dug her shallow grave and he dumped her body in there with all her belongings he removed
01:17:40
the ropes and he wiped whatever he had touched clean because he had looked up how to do this [ __ ] he also kept one of
01:17:47
her shoes as a trophy weird and once he'd finished covering her body with sand he went to his car and drove 100
01:17:53
miles home ew now for him to sit there and say like I had this moment where I just called out her name and I wanted to
01:18:00
undo what I did why'd you keep her shoe yeah why'd you keep her shoe no can you tell me why you kept her shoe then right
01:18:06
like if you wouldn't want to remember this and you feel bad about it but you kept pushing that shoe to look back on
01:18:12
okay my guy does he always we haven't covered him yet but we'll get to him he's the foot fetish Slayer mind
01:18:19
Hunter yeah so that night Rudy Judy's roommates obviously began to worry they never heard back from her they gave her
01:18:27
ex-husband to call and they gave him the phone number for Johnny Glenn unfortunately when her ex-husband called
01:18:34
the number it turned out to be the number of a local machine shop so Panic immediately sudden her ex-husband spent
01:18:41
the entire evening wandering up and down the Sunset Strip checking everywhere for
01:18:45
her and when he checked everywhere he could think of he called the police and reported her and how sad is that too
01:18:50
that like obviously they loved each other at one point you know yeah he had some love left for her to be able to go
01:18:57
out and look for her and they're going through this awful time where they're like
01:19:00
aggressively going through this custody battle and I'm sure he's sitting there being like [ __ ] like you know like it
01:19:06
was that worth it yeah that's sad so the missing persons bulletin went out on Judy the next day and it gave a
01:19:13
description of Johnny Glenn and it asked for anyone with information to contact them as soon as they could on August 3rd
01:19:20
the news of The Disappearance made the papers and her roommates talked to reporters and they said that they
01:19:25
believed that she had met with Foul Play they did not believe she had run away no
01:19:29
they said they knew something was wrong with the photographer when he told her quote he wanted to shoot pinup pictures
01:19:36
yet he told her to bring a selection of Street outfits right like that doesn't mean they're all models so they're not
01:19:41
actresses they know and they were like this was weird no one knew who this Johnny Glenn was or
01:19:47
where Judy could be they talked to friends family anybody Associates detectives even briefly
01:19:53
considered her ex-husband obviously but he was at work when she disappeared and like clearly was grief stricken right
01:20:00
they wondered of course if she ran away and thought maybe she was concocting this fake kidnapping story to Garner
01:20:05
Sympathy for the custody hearing but then she missed the hearing the following week yeah she wouldn't so they
01:20:11
abandoned that um so they ran out of people to talk to her any ideas of where she could go they
01:20:16
just assumed she was dead and essentially stopped looking for her what they were like there's more
01:20:22
pressing matters at hand oh not a crazed serial killer on the loose like okay girl just missing somewhere like she
01:20:30
could still be alive yeah and you're just gonna give up on her cool just gave up oh being a woman in this country yeah
01:20:37
five months later she would be found but not identified right away um a ranch hand was walking his dog in
01:20:44
the desert near Thousand Palms and Came Upon her like buried skeleton I was gonna say it you said five months yeah
01:20:52
like she was so skeletal at that point he contacted the sheriff's department and act after some excavation they found
01:20:58
her skeleton she was later identified as Judy doll um in the grave they also found one shoe
01:21:04
a fountain pen a 10 karat gold ring on her left finger I'm surprised you didn't take it I know 10 carats yeah wow and an
01:21:12
autopsy was conducted and uh they really couldn't tell a lot from it because they
01:21:16
were just bones and at that point they're not gonna be able to tell anything especially at this time this is
01:21:21
the safeties right she went unidentified for about a year wow she just laid as bones unidentified bones
01:21:31
[Music] now following that the murder of Judy Dahl Harvey definitely gained confidence
01:21:48
because oh yeah I mean that's the first time he's killed and then yeah completely got away with it so and he
01:21:55
had also landed a full-time job at a TV repair shop in Hollywood that paid like twice minimum wage so he's feeling like
01:22:01
good and unfortunately his personality got in the way of that job because he was fired three months after the job
01:22:07
started we love to hear it but now he's broke he's out of prospects but again he
01:22:13
got away with murder so he's feeling like he can at least do one thing in February of 1958 he headed back to
01:22:19
Denver to visit his mom and no one really knows what happened in Denver but he like didn't get a job he
01:22:29
didn't have any money but he was able to return to Los Angeles pretty quickly after and rent a bungalow just around
01:22:35
the corner from his old apartment with no stable income or job maybe he had saved up money from that place that paid
01:22:41
double yeah or Ophelia just gave him a [ __ ] ton of money yeah but did she even
01:22:45
have a [ __ ] ton to give him I don't even know well maybe his father's life insurance maybe there you go but so he
01:22:51
loses his job he goes to visit his mom he spends sometimes there he comes back he runs a brand new Bungalow and now at
01:22:58
this point he's gotten away with murder and he's still getting away with murder yeah it's been like a long time he's
01:23:05
emboldened now because he's like well [ __ ] they found her and they still don't
01:23:08
even know it's her right and at that point you're nearing a year so by March he'd begun hunting for a new victim he
01:23:16
assumed police were going to be looking for the photographer and models thing so
01:23:20
he was like you know what I gotta change that up so instead he turned to the Patty Sullivan Lonely Hearts Club oh
01:23:27
after paying the 10 admission fee which is big mission fee back then oh yeah Harvey res registered as George Williams
01:23:34
who he said was a plumber from Pasadena no he wasn't um yeah he changed the means of getting the
01:23:41
woman but he was going to keep the rest of it pretty much the same as before um he would arrange the meeting with the
01:23:47
woman see if she met his standards and if so he was going to bring her out to the desert and do exactly what he had
01:23:53
done to Judy doll now the first date he went on was according to him a disappointment
01:23:59
because the woman just talked the entire time and she had a dominating personality that really turned him off
01:24:04
oh he would have hated us I said that I was like all right so like he would have
01:24:08
hated it I talked so much the Harveys of the world [ __ ] their pants said a dominating woman but the second date he
01:24:14
went on he said was what he was looking for and this was with Shirley Ann bridgeford
01:24:19
and it was very different for Harvey Shirley was only 24 years old but she'd done a lot of living she by 1958 at 24
01:24:28
she'd already been married and divorced for three years wow and when she met Harvey she was struggling to get by and
01:24:34
support her two sons and their names were Ricky and Billy oh my gosh so cute now Charlie was just out
01:24:42
here hoping that she paid ten dollars which is a [ __ ] lot for anybody but especially a single mom yeah just
01:24:48
looking for love she was hoping she could find someone that would help her raise her sons yeah she was looking for
01:24:53
a good man a father figure to just be in her son's life that's all she was out here looking for like what the [ __ ]
01:24:59
that's so sad Shirley hadn't apparently according to Harvey surely Shirley had said she hadn't received much attention
01:25:05
from men at the Lonely Hearts Club she's beautiful so so probably not either men
01:25:10
are fake as [ __ ] out here or I mean I would put money or Harvey's lying which either one I'd put money on both those
01:25:16
bets so she was very excited on March 7th she got a call from George Williams asking if she would be interested in
01:25:22
joining him for square dancing that evening so she agreed and she was all excited he
01:25:27
was going to pick her up at 7 45 PM but she had never met him or seen him so she
01:25:33
had her children her mother and two sisters be at her house when he came to pick her up okay so he saw her entire
01:25:39
family and still didn't and still did terrible and they all said there didn't seem to
01:25:45
be anything really like stranger off about him I mean he's not he's ugly as [ __ ] but it's like he's not somebody you
01:25:51
would look at and be like I bet he's a demon like it's just not and he's ugly as [ __ ] because we hate him exactly he's
01:25:57
like a pretty normal look but when you look at him and like you know by those standards it's like whatever you
01:26:02
wouldn't you wouldn't bat an eye at like no who he is no now the thing is no one
01:26:07
seemed to remember the description of Johnny Glenn that had been up months earlier because the police had just
01:26:13
given up on it right they hadn't been pumping it out to people so everyone forgot about it this is in Johnny Glenn
01:26:18
this is George exactly and he was essentially able to go under the radar because he's got that face he's got
01:26:24
those [ __ ] hormone glasses those huge ears like everything just described to a
01:26:30
t who he is Johnny Glenn but because the police stopped putting that out there people forgot and I mean back then where
01:26:37
people like obviously people were using fake names a ton back then but who knew you would never think it so they went
01:26:44
out they set off and Harvey asked Shirley if she would mind if they changed plans for the evening if a man
01:26:50
says do you mind if we change plans for the evening say yes yep I do I do mind take me home please yep the end
01:26:58
and then punch him in the face take me square dancing or take me nowhere square dancing or bust that's it but it seems
01:27:05
to be that when a change of plans comes in it's like ah no if you don't know that man say no no no no no no plans
01:27:11
yeah we had plans so he said he wanted to take a drive along the coast instead of square
01:27:18
dancing no which of course that's going to be so appealing to her she's looking for romance she's just looking forward
01:27:23
and he knows that piece of [ __ ] and the two stopped at a cafe in Oceanside they
01:27:28
talked they ate dinner together for him to bring her to a cafe oh yes then they got back in the car and they just kind
01:27:34
of drove around and again we only have his version of the story here unfortunately uh he claims they drove
01:27:40
around aimlessly for a little while and then he was wrestling with whether or not he wanted to go through with this
01:27:45
because he said she wasn't a pinup model like the others so maybe she didn't deserve it
01:27:50
what get so [ __ ] like what kind of standard is that get sofa if you're a pinup model you should be killed but uh
01:27:58
maybe not alone no you know what no yeah we're just gonna go with it okay now eventually he pulled the car off to the
01:28:04
side of a dark Mountain Road he said they spent some time like kissing and talking and then Shirley was like I
01:28:11
don't want to go any further yeah by the way because she has a [ __ ] right to say that 100 and according to Harvey he
01:28:19
kept trying to persuade her to have sex with him because he's a disgusting little rat boy and before then so he's
01:28:26
pushing her pushing her then he takes the gun out and he tells her get in the back seat oh my God she apparently
01:28:33
fought him for a minute but the guns scared her so she ended up crawling into the back seat because what else is she
01:28:38
gonna [ __ ] do yeah and it's not every day you have a gun in your face he crawled back there and he raped Shirley
01:28:43
it's [ __ ] gross after he had raped her he realized there was nothing else he could do he was going to have to kill
01:28:48
her and he said it was for his own safety what because we care about your safety
01:28:54
little shit's name wow just past 10 o'clock Harvey began driving towards San Diego and he told Shirley the same exact
01:29:01
thing that he told all the other women he said he was going to let her go in a remote location he was going to give her
01:29:06
bus fare but then she had to keep her mouth shut so he pulled into Anza barango Desert
01:29:11
State Park in Borrego strings Springs excuse me and he found a dark spot to pull over
01:29:17
he made her get out of the car he got a blanket he got the rope from the trunk they began walking for a dark spot to
01:29:23
put the blanket out now he confessed later to all this and in the confession he said he'd already decided in the car
01:29:29
that he was going to kill Shirley the same way he killed Judy wow um once he found the place he put the
01:29:35
blanket down he made her undress so he could take photos of her he's such a dick after taking photos of Shirley nude
01:29:42
he then went without warning what wrapped the Rope around her ankles and he said pulled it so as to bend her
01:29:49
knees put his knee at the small of her back looped the Rope twice around her neck and pulled as hard as he could for
01:29:57
five minutes or so until there did not seem to be any sign of life that is a slow death
01:30:04
it's horrific he's a horrific human being it was almost done by the time he stopped taking pictures of her what by
01:30:12
the way [ __ ] of her dead body he is on another level yeah he then dragged her off and under a nearby Cactus because he
01:30:21
later told police he felt she should be under something oh shut the cactus shut the [ __ ] up you piece of garbage
01:30:33
sitting there being like I feel like she should be covered with I feel like she should be alive and with her kids you
01:30:38
piece of [ __ ] exactly that's what I feel like and under a cactus like that's gonna provide some kind of an [ __ ]
01:30:43
any any comfort and then as he's sitting here being like I believe you give me under something because I care oh really
01:30:50
why did you take her underwear and strips of cloth from the bottom of her dress as souvenirs [ __ ] film you
01:30:57
contradicting [ __ ] yeah like get out of here so then he gathered everything of hers including her purse
01:31:03
and he went to his car he drove home and as he drove home he threw the contents of her purse out the window as he drove
01:31:09
wow along the highway oh but he kept 30 cents well it's from reverse okay of course Shirley's family panicked yeah
01:31:17
when she didn't come home they called the police to report her missing and unfortunately because he had called
01:31:23
himself George Williams and given a fake address and phone number and this is the
01:31:27
50s they could not find him and how sad is that that they looked him in the face
01:31:32
with him in the [ __ ] face when he met him I'll have her home by this time hours look at her kids and said bye this
01:31:40
man looked at her kids and took their mother out of that [ __ ] house to do that to her like wow like you are on
01:31:47
another level not many cases where that happened where they looked those kids in
01:31:52
the face only to take their money and her mother and sisters you said her mother like wow looked her mother her
01:31:57
sister and her kids in the [ __ ] face and then took her out of that multiple Generations connected to this woman and
01:32:03
was like I'm gonna destroy your life tonight that's so funny honestly that probably added to it for him truly it
01:32:09
probably did he's such a I hate that he's one of those I hate those ones that sit there later and I'm like
01:32:17
yeah I wrestled with it I you know I just I grabbed her face and I yelled her and I wanted her to get up I put her
01:32:24
under something because they wanted her to be covered shut the [ __ ] up no it's
01:32:27
like you wouldn't have killed them shut the [ __ ] up like no one wants to hear you cry about it now [ __ ] off exactly
01:32:34
like the same ones that will sit there in a courtroom and look at the family and be like I'm so sorry get [ __ ] no
01:32:39
one cares you're not you're sorry if you were sorry you wouldn't have done it I'm
01:32:42
sorry I didn't buy those pair of shoes that now I can't find anywhere that's what you can be sorry about exactly
01:32:47
you're not sorry that you [ __ ] took someone's mother daughter and sister and friend away from them after looking them
01:32:55
in the [ __ ] face in the most horrific and degrading way no two you raped you took the photos of her you like you're
01:33:06
disgust you for five minutes you choked the life out of these women you're disgusting absolutely and that's the
01:33:12
other thing it's like you you sit there and you're like you know I didn't want to do it I wrestled with it [ __ ] off you
01:33:18
sat there for five to ten minutes holding on to that rope yeah for that entire time you had all ample time to
01:33:25
stop yeah like all the time in the world that's so [ __ ] and it's like this isn't like 2023 it's like these women if
01:33:33
they say they're not gonna [ __ ] tell anybody about your face they're probably not going to there's no internet there's
01:33:38
nothing what are they gonna do and they don't know your name exactly you gave a fake name she didn't even know where you
01:33:44
lived exactly like forget what I look like they will forget what you look like you're such a piece of [ __ ] it makes me
01:33:51
really angry so detective Dave ostra who'd been assigned to the Judy doll kidnapping
01:33:56
actually thought the the descriptions that the family had they were kind of vague of what he looked like because
01:34:02
obviously they weren't thinking they had to take every bit of his face into account when they saw him he thought
01:34:07
they kind of did match Johnny Glenn but that's kind of all they had so he was like this might be the same guy or they
01:34:13
don't know who this guy is like that's the problem so the case went cold pretty quickly
01:34:20
Now by April of 1958 he was still unemployed he's living off of Ophelia sending him money on a regular basis
01:34:27
it's funny that he's living off of a woman and acting this way towards women yes but I'm glad that one is keeping you
01:34:33
afloat you [ __ ] loser yeah like real cool now as part of his plan to stay out of
01:34:38
jail and undetective undetected he had actually built a small dark room in his apartment and he would develop the
01:34:45
photos that he takes of these victims including Judy doll and Shirley bridgeford both before during and after
01:34:51
their deaths that's so messed up and he kept the photos in a medium-sized metal toolbox
01:34:57
and the and in that toolbox he also had Judy's shoe Shirley's underwear anything
01:35:01
he took from them so he's really remorseful yeah he really wrestles with this yeah definitely Now
01:35:08
by July of that year he felt like enough time had passed the heat was off gnome was on him like no one was even close to
01:35:15
talking to him about it so he's like I can hunt again because the police gave up again so why not
01:35:20
like come on LAPD but this time he figured he would go back to his other method of doing the
01:35:27
photo shoot thing so he went through local papers and he came across an advertisement for a model
01:35:32
by the name of Angela Rojas who was available immediately for modeling work so he called the number and he found out
01:35:39
that Angela was a pseudonym used by Ruth Mercado she was a 24 year old model who
01:35:45
just arrived in Los Angeles from Plattsburgh New York five years earlier she was a badass she had served in the
01:35:51
women's air force during the Korean War and was honorably discharged and after she was discharged she went straight to
01:35:57
Hollywood for dreams of like stardom good for her she had done the badass thing and now she's like I'm in all my
01:36:02
dreams yeah why not let's do it unfortunately when things weren't really working out for her and she was not
01:36:07
being discovered she turned to modeling as a way of making money while still staying kind of a little bit in the
01:36:13
entertainment agent industry you know but she was doing the detective magazine kind of thing yeah thing keeping afloat
01:36:19
she was also working to supplement that income at a strip club so she was doing stripping
01:36:24
just to make money together yeah to pay a rent yeah feed her herself when Harvey
01:36:30
called he said his name was Frank and that he was a magazine photographer and he was looking for new Talent so she was
01:36:36
actually very eager to get some work and exposure so she said of course she'd love to meet him
01:36:41
she gave him the address of her apartment and he was going to stop by later that evening
01:36:46
so he did but when Ruth opened the door he was like what's wrong and she was like I'm so
01:36:52
sorry I meant to call you I'm not feeling well oh she said she didn't have his number and he was like frustrated
01:36:58
yeah um Harvey thought she was lying about being sick and he was like I know exactly what it is he was like she saw
01:37:06
me and and saw what I looked like and decided not to let me in that was his oh it's about you I forgot that the world
01:37:14
revolves around Harvey yep he said it's fine we'll take a rain check and he left
01:37:20
oh but he said he had the gun in his pocket and he almost pulled it out but he didn't like what so he said he went
01:37:26
home and the more he thought about it the angrier he got and the more incel his Vibe became and the more it was now
01:37:33
her fault how dare her how dare you have a cold he said he started thinking about
01:37:38
oh she's not even really an actress our model she's a [ __ ] stripper and she thinks she's above me like he started
01:37:46
pulling that like Sally yeah exactly and so he's below him because she's a stripper it's like how dare she turned
01:37:56
him down literally not even like nothing is below you so he decided to just show
01:38:01
up at her apartment unannounced oh my God and on July 23rd which was a Wednesday he just showed up unannounced
01:38:07
and she was like shocked it was like what the [ __ ] but she was like I am feeling better so yeah let's do a photo
01:38:13
shoot yeah she was like I'm not like I was sick I didn't think I really love you or above you I'm just literally sick
01:38:20
yeah so she left Harvey in her living room to put her dog in the bathroom so that the dog wouldn't flip out oh no and
01:38:26
when she returned to the living room she found Harvey with a gun in his hand and
01:38:30
he directed her to her bedroom oh my God then he bound and gagged her to her bed
01:38:36
or on her bed and then he went back out into the main section of the apartment he said he made sure all the doors were
01:38:41
locked so that he wouldn't be interrupted made sure the dog was still in the bathroom and she's been panicking
01:38:47
this whole time yep and then he went back in the bedroom and he told her he wanted to have sex with her which I love
01:38:52
that like that's the how he's saying I want to have sex with you you want to rape her yeah let's be clear not my guys
01:38:57
you're not having sex with her sexual so just say it say what you want to do and
01:39:03
he said he was going to untie her but he warned her not to do anything foolish or
01:39:08
he would hurt her so Harvey this is awful Harvey raped Ruth for a minimum of four or five times
01:39:15
over the course of the next few hours four or five times oh my God in hours in hours and when he was done he said again
01:39:23
he was wrestling with what to do totally just I don't know I don't know if I'm gonna do it and he later said quote I
01:39:30
didn't want to kill her she was the one that I really liked but that's [ __ ] because like he
01:39:36
clearly didn't and it's like you're sitting here saying you're constantly like oh my gosh what do I do what do I
01:39:42
do but every single time you end up killing somebody so you clearly aren't struggling with it now you're not
01:39:47
struggling because 10 out of 10 times you've you've come to that ultimate conclusion so yeah no no no no but he
01:39:56
told her he wanted to quote take her on a picnic then he loaded her into his black Dodge
01:40:02
just after midnight and begin to Drive Southeast from Los Angeles towards the desert in San Diego
01:40:08
they spent nearly like they spent the entire day in the desert he was just raping her and taking photographs of her
01:40:16
for like hours he later would say that this was them making love that's so foul yeah that is like Beyond
01:40:25
foul is the perfect way to describe that yeah what the [ __ ] is wrong with you bro
01:40:31
and it wasn't until 9 00 PM that he went to the car got the ropes directed her to
01:40:37
walk until they found a spot she spent like almost 48 Hours being tortured by him
01:40:43
and he removed her clothing and took more photographs then he killed her using the exact same method that he had
01:40:50
used on Judy doll and Shirley bridgeford and when and that's the other thing if you're slowly garotting someone to death
01:40:58
then you're not wrestling with them you're not struggling with the act of murder it would if you shot her I would
01:41:04
that's maybe maybe I would think that you wrestled for a second but you have so much time to change and it's so
01:41:10
personal so personal so agonizing so horrific and you're taking pictures of the entire thing before doing and after
01:41:16
it's like no no you're not struggling with [ __ ] this is what you like to do this is what you get off doing exactly
01:41:22
be [ __ ] honest about it if you're that gross don't be a dick what the [ __ ] so after he was convinced that she had
01:41:29
died he rolled her body off the blanket and covered her with some brush he basically didn't try to hide her like he
01:41:37
just right now in the open he went back to the car he looked through her purse he stole her watch and a few dollars she
01:41:43
had and then he drove back to Los Angeles and threw out all the rest of the stuff as he did in the highway wow
01:41:48
now her landlord was actually the first person to notice that she had gone missing because he saw the male piling
01:41:55
up on her door so he actually wrote a letter to her mother thinking like maybe she had gone
01:42:00
back to New York and when he wrote the letter to her mother her mother contacted the LAPD to do the report of
01:42:05
her being missing not so sad and just like Judy and Shirley Ruth's missing person case was given complete low
01:42:11
priority they didn't care they had no information so they were like ah she probably ran off and didn't tell anybody
01:42:17
yeah because people just do that all the time it's like I don't think so my guys
01:42:22
and in fact two months paths passed before her photo appeared in the LAPD police football bulletin that's a
01:42:28
[ __ ] shame and a half and on on that photo were the notes May seek employment at nude modeling or as a stripper and
01:42:36
mental condition poor what about her mental condition was poor wow LAPD like there's nothing to say
01:42:43
that her mental condition is yeah what so it is very fortunate that the next victim
01:42:51
actually is the one that cracks this case because the police sure as [ __ ] weren't gonna do it so let's hear it for
01:42:58
Lorraine vigil who we're gonna talk about in part two oh I had a feeling you were gonna do
01:43:04
that because her she's her story is wild and honestly I think we all need a little yeah everybody go watch Bravo
01:43:11
right now yeah take a shower wash that all off you know like watch something spooky spooky always makes me feel good
01:43:18
yeah paint your nails paint your nails call a friend you know have some tea I'm watching summer house tonight oh there
01:43:25
you go house premieres tonight oh I'm excited there you go Danielle and Lindsay aren't friends what what
01:43:29
happened you know I always knew I honestly I always knew you probably did like I believe you I literally I
01:43:36
literally literally I did so guys we hope that you keep listening yeah and we hope you keep it weird but not as weird
01:43:44
as this [ __ ] incel because Harvey sucks bye foreign [Music] members you can listen to morbid early
01:44:21
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