00:00:06
Hey weirdos. I am Ash. And I'm Elena.
00:00:09
And this is Moab Bed.
00:00:16
[Music]
00:00:24
Small bed. Small bed. Honey, how are
00:00:26
you? Um, I'm not great with the state of
00:00:28
the world. Yeah, it's pretty [ __ ]
00:00:31
out there. Um, one thing we just want to
00:00:33
make pretty clear is, uh, [ __ ] ICE.
00:00:35
Yeah. Um, so if I right off the top, you
00:00:40
have to be a [ __ ] demon. Yeah. It's
00:00:42
It's pretty awful. And, uh, I hope if
00:00:45
you're in Los Angeles, you're safe and
00:00:47
you're okay. And we know that you're not
00:00:49
rioting. Um, you're protesting is your
00:00:52
constitutional right. So, you know, keep
00:00:54
at it. Be safe. Hold American flags.
00:00:57
Hold American flags for the optics. You
00:00:59
know, um I saw somebody on TikTok say
00:01:01
that and I thought that was pretty
00:01:02
smart. I've been seeing a few people say
00:01:04
that now. Yeah. So that it's not, you
00:01:06
know, they can't twist it. And be
00:01:07
careful. Be very careful. Look out if
00:01:09
you see people like in trouble. Try to
00:01:12
help them. Yeah. But like really be safe
00:01:14
and I'm sorry that this is happening
00:01:16
Yeah. to you guys and that you're being,
00:01:19
you know, retaliated against. That's
00:01:21
[ __ ] up. Um, there is I know there's,
00:01:25
you know, there's other protests going
00:01:27
on. So, everybody be safe and, you know,
00:01:31
fight the good fight. Fight it, but stay
00:01:34
safe. Yeah. Um, cuz this is really
00:01:37
[ __ ] up. It's a very, very scary time
00:01:39
to be alive. Uh, it really, really is.
00:01:42
And, uh, uh, we didn't vote for this.
00:01:45
So, no the [ __ ] we didn't.
00:01:48
I mean, I'm pretty sure that was pretty
00:01:49
clear, but I think it's important to say
00:01:51
it outright in these here streets
00:01:53
because there's some people who are not
00:01:55
saying it outright and that makes me
00:01:57
say, "Oh, yeah. No, we What's happening
00:02:00
there? We defo did not vote for that."
00:02:02
No, definitely not. Um, and again, know
00:02:05
your rights, which I know in this, you
00:02:07
know, time and space, they're not
00:02:10
exactly being listened to at this point,
00:02:12
but when it comes to ICE and all that
00:02:14
stuff, know your rights. know what they
00:02:16
can and can't do. You don't have to sign
00:02:18
anything. Yeah. But I know that it's
00:02:20
getting harder to do that even because
00:02:22
they're really just overstepping things.
00:02:24
But um yeah, we just wanted to start out
00:02:27
by saying that that um [ __ ] ICE and we
00:02:30
don't we don't agree with any of this
00:02:32
and and this is stolen land anyway. So
00:02:37
So really as I Yeah. You have a right to
00:02:41
be here just as much as we do. And
00:02:43
everybody has a right to a a dignified
00:02:46
and
00:02:48
you know humane path to citizenship if
00:02:52
that is the path they would like to
00:02:53
take. And like Dutchie said, I don't
00:02:56
[ __ ] care about the piece of paper.
00:02:57
Dutchy on Tik Tok is I love I love Duchy
00:03:00
on Tik Tok and I agree like that's you
00:03:03
know. So take care of your community
00:03:05
members. Stay strong everybody. Mhm.
00:03:09
We'll get through this. We will. We'll
00:03:11
get on the other side. And again, I
00:03:13
don't know when this comes out um 42
00:03:16
years from now. So So hopefully this
00:03:19
this will be out after the next
00:03:20
presidential election. Yeah, exactly.
00:03:22
But uh I but I hopefully like, you know,
00:03:25
that this is something we've been
00:03:27
feeling as it's happening and we would
00:03:28
love to, you know, say it earlier than
00:03:30
this on the podcast, but it won't always
00:03:32
be like this. Yeah, it won't always be
00:03:34
like this. June 30th. June 30th is when
00:03:36
this will come out. So, it'll be quite
00:03:38
some time after this all started. So,
00:03:39
I'm sure you're like, "Hey, what?" But
00:03:42
we felt like this, but it's in the
00:03:43
moment right now. It's June 13th right
00:03:45
now. So, we are feeling it as it's
00:03:47
happening. Yes. And you know, check out
00:03:50
my social media if you want to see how I
00:03:51
feel. Yeah. Same. I'm back. So, yeah, we
00:03:55
just had to say something. We thought it
00:03:56
was really important. Um, but besides
00:03:58
that, what has been going on with me?
00:04:02
Yeah. No, with with the guy
00:04:06
who little old me with me. Oh my god, so
00:04:08
much. Um, it was my birthday. It was
00:04:11
your birthday. Yeah, it was fun. I just
00:04:13
vibed. I love that. Yeah. I turned 29. I
00:04:16
was like, "What do you really do?" Yeah.
00:04:19
You know, I I used to be like, "It's my
00:04:21
birthday. It's my [ __ ] birthday."
00:04:24
Yeah. I used to be really intense about
00:04:26
it. But as you I feel like as you get
00:04:28
older, it becomes like you just want to
00:04:30
have chill birthdays. Yeah. It's just a
00:04:31
day. I hung out with my little sister
00:04:32
and her fiance who's adorable. I love
00:04:35
her fiance. I love my little sister. I
00:04:36
love them too. You had a walk so you
00:04:38
couldn't be there? I did. I had the um
00:04:40
Boston Children's Hospital Eversource
00:04:42
walk. How was that? It was actually
00:04:43
great. You raised some money. Yeah, we
00:04:46
raised some money. I do nodded. We got
00:04:48
to see people that you know helped my
00:04:51
daughter survive something awful. That's
00:04:54
pretty great. That was pretty great. You
00:04:56
said thanks. Yeah, we got to say thanks
00:04:58
to And the and the girls were involved
00:05:00
in it. We always take them with the on
00:05:02
the walk so they can be part of
00:05:03
everything. It's so crazy that happened
00:05:06
when she was four. Yeah. And like now
00:05:08
she's just a [ __ ] adult. Yeah. It's
00:05:10
wild. It's insane. It's so crazy. And
00:05:12
like thriving. Like hell yeah. Drew and
00:05:14
I were talking about that the other day
00:05:16
and I was like it's crazy cuz she
00:05:18
remembers a lot of it. Oh yeah, she
00:05:19
does. Which is like nuts cuz she was
00:05:21
four but obviously it was so traumatic.
00:05:23
Yeah. But I'm just like the fact that
00:05:25
she came out of that unscathed is wild.
00:05:28
She's thriving now. Yeah. And we got and
00:05:30
while we were there, we got to see Lil
00:05:31
Funk. Lil Funk, which are the like
00:05:33
official dance troop of the Boston
00:05:35
Celtics. I love that. They're like these
00:05:37
little kids and I think it's um I think
00:05:40
it's in Everett, Massachusetts. It's
00:05:42
like funk phenomenon or something and
00:05:44
they have all different age groups and
00:05:46
they are some of the best dancers I have
00:05:48
ever seen in my life. They're all age
00:05:50
groups, but Lil Funk is like the little
00:05:52
kids and they kill it. Like it is
00:05:56
watching them is unlike anything you
00:05:57
will experience. I love them. Little fun
00:05:59
for life. Um, but yeah, they're all
00:06:01
amazing. Like they had the adult ones
00:06:03
perform, too, and they were out of this
00:06:06
world amazing. So, that's really fun.
00:06:09
So, if you get to a Celtics game, you'll
00:06:10
probably see Lil Funk. Oh, and I'm going
00:06:12
to be at so many more next year, right?
00:06:14
Hell yeah. Yay. Hell yeah. I don't have
00:06:16
seasons tickets yet. What else did Oh,
00:06:18
um, since we've talked to you, we went
00:06:20
to the Jack Mannequin show. That was so
00:06:21
much fun. That was a lot of fun. Um, we
00:06:24
got to hang out with Andrew. We got to
00:06:25
see Andrew. That was lovely. got to go
00:06:27
on the side stage. Yeah, that was really
00:06:29
fun. We got to watch the end of the show
00:06:30
from backstage. I've never felt cooler
00:06:32
in my life. Yeah, it was a lot of fun.
00:06:35
That was a huge experience. That was a
00:06:36
big Ws to come back on the show. Yeah,
00:06:38
he's going to come back. So, we'll do
00:06:40
another show with him hopefully soon, I
00:06:42
think. Actually, summer month or so. Um,
00:06:44
we got some cool stuff coming up. Yeah,
00:06:46
we do. So, you know, I guess without
00:06:50
further ado, we should get into this
00:06:52
wild case. Yeah, it's yours. This is um
00:06:55
an interesting
00:06:57
uh like title. Yeah, I would say so.
00:07:01
Like title. Title. This is part one
00:07:05
because um there's a lot of information
00:07:07
going to be thrown at you. Um it's Glenn
00:07:09
Helzer and the Children of Thunder.
00:07:12
The Children of Thunder. Yeah. Like that
00:07:15
sounds very ominous. Is it a cult? Um I
00:07:18
guess you'll have to see. Okay. Uh but
00:07:21
this is going to be a Tupata.
00:07:24
Um, and this takes place in 2000,
00:07:27
actually. So, not like crazy old. I
00:07:30
mean, that is sort of that is pretty
00:07:31
old, but like 25 [ __ ] years ago. To
00:07:35
me, that's 10 years ago. So, I don't I
00:07:37
don't understand. To me, as well, I
00:07:39
talked to somebody who was born in 2002
00:07:40
the other day, and I was like, "What the
00:07:42
fuck?" Yeah. I can't even though I'm not
00:07:44
that far away from it. Yeah. Something
00:07:46
about I was going to say, you're really
00:07:47
not that far from I'm not, but like 96
00:07:49
and 2002 feel like completely different.
00:07:52
like things entirely. No, I get that,
00:07:55
you know, and I'm just old. I'm just old
00:07:57
old soul. I hang out with you guys all
00:07:59
the time. There's there's a um Red Sox
00:08:01
prospect that got brought up recently
00:08:03
from like the minors. Yeah. Uh so
00:08:05
there's his name is Roman Anthony and um
00:08:09
John found out the other day and it very
00:08:12
much upset him in his core that Roman
00:08:15
Anthony was born in 2004.
00:08:18
Yeah. Um he's 18. He was about
00:08:23
uh No, he's not 18.
00:08:27
He's 20. He just turned 21, I think. I
00:08:30
graduated
00:08:33
in 2004. That was 20 years ago. It said
00:08:35
the 18-year-old was drafted in the
00:08:37
second round in 2022.
00:08:39
But still, he's what? So, what is he 20?
00:08:42
He's like 21 essentially. [ __ ]
00:08:44
insane. But what's even worse is he was
00:08:46
um like 5 months old when the Red Sox
00:08:49
won the World Series. We're even. So
00:08:51
when the Red Sox won the World Series,
00:08:54
he was a fivemonth-old
00:08:56
who was then going to be one of their
00:08:58
hottest prospects. Wow. 20 years later.
00:09:02
That's which is like a very like sh I
00:09:04
just can't wrap my brain around that.
00:09:06
Yeah, that's crazy. It just really I was
00:09:08
like whoa. Every time they come through,
00:09:10
especially on the Red Sox for some
00:09:12
reason, they're just so young that I'm
00:09:15
like you are babies and I don't know
00:09:17
what to do. I mean 20 21 is young.
00:09:20
That's baby. I we started this when I
00:09:22
was 21. Yeah. Wow. I might have been 22,
00:09:26
but I was like around that age. That's
00:09:27
bonkers. I know. I'm a [ __ ] whole
00:09:29
different the human now. Herman. Herman.
00:09:31
Aren't we all? Um, so speaking So that
00:09:35
all goes to say that this took place in
00:09:37
2000. So that feels like we really
00:09:39
digressed there. It's been a long week.
00:09:41
Okay. You know what though? I think
00:09:42
people are enjoying that we're
00:09:43
digressing lately cuz they're saying it
00:09:45
feels like old morbid. I have seen a lot
00:09:47
of people say it feels like old morbid.
00:09:49
Yeah. Is it because we're digressing? I
00:09:51
think it is because we're just like
00:09:52
going for I don't know. I feel um
00:09:56
there's a reason. Well, the way I was
00:09:59
just the way I was just going to like be
00:10:02
so for real with y'all.
00:10:05
We got We have to keep going. We have to
00:10:06
keep I feel I feel fancy free, you know?
00:10:09
I feel like I feel like we're we're back
00:10:11
to the the roots. Uh, so on the evening
00:10:14
of July 30th, 2000, Nancy Hall called
00:10:18
her elderly parents, Ivan and Annette
00:10:20
Steinman, to check in with them. You
00:10:22
know, she'd done that regularly for
00:10:24
years. NY's mother answered the phone
00:10:26
that night, but rather than chatting, as
00:10:28
she usually did during these calls,
00:10:29
Annette seemed as though she was in a
00:10:31
rush and didn't really have a lot of
00:10:32
time to talk. After a few minutes of
00:10:34
chatting, Annette told her daughter that
00:10:36
she'd have to hang up and would call her
00:10:38
back later since they were expecting
00:10:39
company and they just arrived. Okay. So
00:10:43
Ivan and Annette Steinman met while Ivan
00:10:45
was serving in the Coast Guard during
00:10:47
World War II, and they fell in love
00:10:49
immediately. To the outside world, they
00:10:52
seemed like a little bit of like an
00:10:54
unusual match. No. Just because Ivan was
00:10:57
really quiet and reserved and he didn't
00:10:59
have a lot of like big displays of
00:11:01
emotion and Annette was outgoing, very
00:11:04
gregarious, very active, like total
00:11:07
opposites attract kind of situation.
00:11:08
That's the thing. I was just going to
00:11:09
say opposites attract. Yeah. Despite
00:11:11
those differences of character, they
00:11:13
just clicked. Uh Nancy said of her
00:11:15
parents, "Mom was the stronger one. They
00:11:17
made a good team." NY's sister Judy also
00:11:20
said this. She said they were each half
00:11:22
of a whole, very in tune with each
00:11:24
other. They loved each other very much.
00:11:26
Oh, that's precious and I bet it's going
00:11:28
to ruin me later. Now, the couple
00:11:30
married in 1945, and a soon after,
00:11:33
Annette gave birth to two daughters,
00:11:34
Nancy and Judy. In many ways, the family
00:11:37
was the picture perfect 1950s American
00:11:40
family. They got along well, and both
00:11:43
parents were actively involved in their
00:11:44
daughter's lives. Um, Judy later
00:11:47
recalled, "Our parents were always
00:11:48
interested in our lives. They made sure
00:11:50
we did our homework. They watched over
00:11:52
us and cared how we did." A Ivan and
00:11:54
Annette strived to give their daughters
00:11:57
everything they could possibly need or
00:11:58
want. Despite their very meager means
00:12:01
and limited income, they were the kind
00:12:03
of parents who like kids come first, we
00:12:06
we either get or we don't. So, good
00:12:08
parents. Exactly. Now, in fact, Ivan, a
00:12:11
profession, a professional carpenter,
00:12:13
built the family home in California
00:12:16
himself with help from his wife and the
00:12:18
children. Iconic. Yeah. Um Nancy said,
00:12:21
"We were so poor in the beginning. Mom
00:12:23
and dad had to take old nails from
00:12:25
boards, straighten them, and use them in
00:12:27
the new construction." Oh, wow. Yeah,
00:12:29
that's terrifying. Despite the stresses
00:12:31
of a workingclass life, Nancy and Judy
00:12:33
have nothing but fond memories with
00:12:35
their parents, especially like little
00:12:37
outings they took, like family camping
00:12:39
trips they would take every summer, and
00:12:41
they would go fishing on like fishing
00:12:43
trips with their dad a lot. That's
00:12:44
really cute. Now, when carpentry became
00:12:46
too much of a physical strain, Ivan
00:12:48
found work in the credit card division
00:12:50
of Chevron, which is a national energy
00:12:52
company with multiple business products
00:12:55
and platforms. Yeah. Um, I've heard of
00:12:57
Chevron. You know, the job was stressful
00:13:00
and it, you know, there were long hours,
00:13:02
but it was pretty financially rewarding
00:13:04
and it allowed them to buy a home in a
00:13:07
relatively upscale city of Conquered
00:13:09
about 30 miles outside of San Francisco.
00:13:11
Oh, I thought you were going to say
00:13:12
Mass. Mass. No. And once both girls had
00:13:15
moved out of the house, Annette also
00:13:16
found a job with Chevron and they were
00:13:18
earning a good living. Nice. All Ivan
00:13:21
and Annette's hard work definitely paid
00:13:23
off because by the time they retired,
00:13:25
they had invested very wisely and had
00:13:28
managed to save a decent amount of
00:13:30
money. Thanks in part because of a young
00:13:32
finan uh savvy financial adviser with
00:13:35
Morgan Stanley. This savings and wise
00:13:38
investment allowed Ivan and Annette to
00:13:40
enjoy their retirement years going on
00:13:42
trips, fishing together, not a lot of
00:13:45
financial stress. They just kind of
00:13:47
could like live that easy life. Living
00:13:48
it up. Yeah, it was really an ideal
00:13:50
retirement. Like, it looked like it was
00:13:53
like their reward for an entire life
00:13:56
dedicated to their family and hard work
00:13:58
essentially. Like they were that f
00:14:00
couple that you're like, "Hell yeah.
00:14:02
Good on you." Now, on the afternoon of
00:14:04
July 30th, Ivan and Annette spent the
00:14:06
afternoon at Koko's restaurant in
00:14:08
downtown Conquered, sharing a few drinks
00:14:10
and a lunch later with friends. At one
00:14:13
point, Ivan mentioned that they'd
00:14:14
recently had a tech from the cable
00:14:16
company out to work on something at the
00:14:17
house, and he felt the man had taken a
00:14:20
very long time to do what was, as far as
00:14:22
Ivan could tell, a pretty
00:14:23
straightforward task. Uh-oh. At hearing
00:14:26
that, his friend uh Harry had joked and
00:14:29
was like, "Oh, maybe the guy's case in
00:14:31
your house." He could be. The four
00:14:33
friends finished their lunch a little
00:14:35
before 3:00 p.m., and Ivan and Annette
00:14:37
arrived home 10 or 15 minutes later. A
00:14:40
few hours later, just before 8:00 PM,
00:14:42
Nancy called to check in. Yeah. But her
00:14:44
mother had cut the conversation short
00:14:46
because they were having people over
00:14:47
that evening. The Steinman family had
00:14:50
always been close, and Nancy was not
00:14:52
accustomed to having days pass without
00:14:54
hearing from her mother or father. Oh,
00:14:56
no. When four or five days passed and
00:14:58
she hadn't heard from either of them and
00:14:59
couldn't get them on the phone, she
00:15:01
decided to drive over to the house to
00:15:03
check on them. And when she arrived at
00:15:05
the house, she immediately knew
00:15:06
something was wrong. The couple's
00:15:08
minivan wasn't in the driveway, which
00:15:10
indicated they weren't home. Oh, that's
00:15:12
weird. And on the doorstep, Nancy found
00:15:14
a pile of the previous day's newspapers.
00:15:16
Delivered, but never brought in the
00:15:18
house. Uhhuh. Inside, things were even
00:15:20
more concerning. Upstairs, Nancy found
00:15:23
one of Ivan and Annette's cats locked in
00:15:25
the bathroom without food or water. No.
00:15:28
After spending some time looking around
00:15:29
the house, she found the other cat
00:15:31
locked outside in the backyard.
00:15:34
Nancy and her sister had always had pets
00:15:36
when they grew up, and they had
00:15:37
inherited from their parents a big love
00:15:41
and appreciation and respect for
00:15:42
animals. Yeah. So, it was impossible for
00:15:46
this to have happened on purpose. Yeah.
00:15:49
Neither of them would have locked those
00:15:50
cats in a bathroom or outside, much less
00:15:53
without food or water. They never would
00:15:55
have done that to their animals. No.
00:15:57
Elsewhere in the house, there were other
00:15:59
signs that something was a miss. It
00:16:01
looked like they had gone through their
00:16:03
personal papers in a hurry and hadn't
00:16:05
put the house back together after doing
00:16:07
that. Okay. Like it was just a mess. And
00:16:10
most distressing of all, and I
00:16:12
understand why this really lit the alarm
00:16:14
bells, Nancy found her father's
00:16:16
wristwatch on the floor in the living
00:16:18
room. Oh, that isn't it. It was like
00:16:21
just underneath the couch. Nope. I
00:16:23
[ __ ] hate that. I think I would
00:16:24
immediately cry. Oh, it would ruin me.
00:16:26
And and and when she picked it up to
00:16:28
look at it, she noticed the band was
00:16:30
damaged around the clasp, like it had
00:16:32
been ripped off Ivan's wrist, not taken
00:16:34
off. Yeah. Something is not right here.
00:16:36
Yeah. So, very concerned about all this,
00:16:39
uh she called the police and reported
00:16:41
her parents missing. Investigators came
00:16:43
a short time later and performed a
00:16:45
thorough search of the house, but as far
00:16:47
as anyone could tell, the only things
00:16:49
missing were Ivan and Annette. Mhm.
00:16:51
Although it's always concerning when an
00:16:53
elderly couple disappears for days.
00:16:55
There was little to indicate they'd gone
00:16:56
missing as a result of foul play. Like
00:16:59
not there was stuff but like not a lot
00:17:02
for them to go on. You know, they don't
00:17:03
find blood or anything like that. That's
00:17:05
the thing. They didn't find any kind of
00:17:06
the glass shattered or obviously there's
00:17:09
signs that something is a miss here. The
00:17:11
wristwatch. Yes. The wristwatch being
00:17:13
the biggest one. And the cats. And the
00:17:15
cats. Yeah. They never would have done
00:17:16
that. Like that to me would have been
00:17:17
like really a problem. Bizarre. Yeah.
00:17:20
Um, also a canvas of the neighborhood
00:17:22
didn't produce any new or alarming
00:17:24
details from neighbors. So again,
00:17:26
there's really nothing to go on. Not in
00:17:28
my neighborhood. There was how I know
00:17:30
that's why it's really good to have like
00:17:31
a very active and nosy neighborhood if
00:17:33
you can. Yes. Um, there was however one
00:17:36
statement from a neighbor that seemed to
00:17:38
confirm what NY's mother had told her
00:17:40
over the phone when they last spoke.
00:17:41
According to the neighbor across the
00:17:43
street on the night of July 30th, she
00:17:45
happened to be looking out her window
00:17:47
and saw two men she described as looking
00:17:49
like Mormon missionaries walking up to
00:17:51
the Steinman house a little before 8:00
00:17:53
p.m. Thinking nothing of it, cuz why
00:17:56
would you? The neighbor shifted her
00:17:58
attention elsewhere and didn't think
00:17:59
about it until the detectives brought it
00:18:01
up. Because again, you wouldn't think
00:18:03
twice about that. Like, and usually
00:18:05
Mormon missionaries, I think, are like
00:18:06
younger. Yeah. like teens, early 20s
00:18:09
dressed in the morning and all that
00:18:11
[ __ ] So, while detectives in conquered
00:18:14
are struggling to make any progress um
00:18:17
um on the disappearance of Ivan and
00:18:18
Annette Steinman, detectives 50 miles
00:18:21
away in Marane County were about to
00:18:23
embark upon a very uh similarly strange
00:18:26
and baffling case as well. On the
00:18:28
morning of August 3rd, the Marane County
00:18:30
Sheriff's Office received a call from a
00:18:32
Woodacre resident um talking about
00:18:35
gunshots in the house across the street.
00:18:37
Oh [ __ ] When deputies arrived at the
00:18:39
house, they were directed to a small
00:18:40
studio apartment located just behind the
00:18:43
house. Inside the apartment, they found
00:18:46
the bodies of 45-year-old Jennifer
00:18:48
Valerin and her 54 yearear-old
00:18:50
boyfriend, James Gamble. Oh, wow. Both
00:18:53
were nude. Jennifer still in bed and
00:18:56
James on the floor beside the bed. And
00:18:58
both had been shot to death with a 9mm
00:19:00
handgun. Damn. A quick look around the
00:19:02
apartment indicated that the murders had
00:19:04
not been committed during a robbery.
00:19:06
There was no signs of struggle. It
00:19:08
didn't appear anything of noteworthy was
00:19:10
taken. It also didn't appear like the
00:19:13
killer had gone through anybody's
00:19:14
belongings. Also, the apartment would
00:19:17
have been a less than ideal target for a
00:19:19
robbery as well because it was
00:19:21
surrounded by larger homes presumably
00:19:23
owned by people much wealthier. Yeah.
00:19:26
And it was also tucked away from the
00:19:28
road behind the main house. Huh? That
00:19:31
meant whoever had killed Jennifer and
00:19:33
James would have had to know the studio
00:19:35
apartment was even there in the first
00:19:36
place. Right. Uh, this was particularly
00:19:39
telling since the apartment was actually
00:19:41
that of Jennifer's daughter, Selena. Oh.
00:19:44
Who was out of town when the murders
00:19:45
were committed. Curious. Now,
00:19:47
unfortunately for investigators, the
00:19:49
scene was virtually devoid of evidence
00:19:52
or leads. They had the shell casings
00:19:54
from the 9mm used in the murder, but
00:19:56
otherwise, the killer left nothing.
00:19:59
Okay. A canvas of the neighborhood was
00:20:01
also pretty discouraging. Uh the
00:20:03
neighbor who called in the report told
00:20:05
detectives they'd heard six to eight
00:20:07
shots around 5:00 a.m. followed by a
00:20:09
short time later the sound of a car
00:20:11
speeding away from the apartment, but
00:20:13
they only heard those things. They
00:20:14
didn't see anything. Mhm. The murders
00:20:17
came as a shock to the residents of
00:20:19
Woodacre. Not only because Jennifer and
00:20:21
Jim were well known locally, but also
00:20:24
because Jennifer was somewhat wellknown
00:20:25
nationally. Oh. She was the one-time
00:20:28
wife of blues musician Elvin Bishop. Oh.
00:20:32
In a press conference the following day,
00:20:34
under Sheriff Dennis Finnegan told
00:20:36
reporters the couple didn't appear to
00:20:37
have any enemies, and in fact, they seem
00:20:40
to be kind of beloved members of the
00:20:42
community. Mhm. Uh Finnegan said, "We're
00:20:44
still working on a motive. It doesn't
00:20:46
appear to be a robbery or a random type
00:20:48
of thing." No. Now, the case took an
00:20:50
even more troubling turn the following
00:20:52
day when investigators couldn't reach
00:20:54
Jennifer's daughter, Selena. Uh-oh. From
00:20:57
interviews with Selena's friends and
00:20:58
co-workers, they learned that her mother
00:21:00
had been staying at Selena's apartment
00:21:02
while she was away on a camping trip in
00:21:04
Yoseite. Okay. But no one had heard from
00:21:06
her since she'd left a week earlier.
00:21:09
According to her friends, this is
00:21:10
completely out of character for her to
00:21:13
not return. Captain Tom McMahon's told a
00:21:16
reporter of this. Now, the Marin County
00:21:18
Sheriff's Office put out a missing
00:21:20
person alert for Selena Bishop and began
00:21:22
speaking to her friends to learn more
00:21:24
about her life. like what's going on
00:21:25
here? By all accounts, Selena Bishop was
00:21:28
a kind, sweet, and somewhat naive young
00:21:30
woman without a single enemy to speak
00:21:33
of. Raised by her mother since her
00:21:36
parents were divorced. Um I think they
00:21:38
divorced when she was like 10 years old.
00:21:39
Okay. Uh they had a super strong bond. A
00:21:42
and now in adulthood, they had a close
00:21:44
relationship as like friends now. Like
00:21:46
you know, you get into that. According
00:21:49
to those close to her, Selena had
00:21:51
recently found work as a server in a
00:21:53
local restaurant, and that provided her
00:21:55
the income to move out on her to her own
00:21:57
apartment, which was the studio where
00:21:58
the bodies of Jennifer and Jim were
00:22:00
found. Around that time, Selena had also
00:22:03
begun dating someone new, a man friends
00:22:06
had heard her refer to only as Jordan.
00:22:10
According to one of Jennifer's closest
00:22:12
friends, Selena's mother was super
00:22:14
desperate to meet this Jordan.
00:22:16
Obviously, it's her daughter and they're
00:22:18
very close, right? But Selena was like
00:22:20
reluctant to introduce them. Apparently,
00:22:23
it had only been a few months since they
00:22:25
had started dating. She wasn't sure. Uh
00:22:27
but not content with that response. I'm
00:22:29
like a few months 25 years ago was like
00:22:31
years in today's world of dating. It's
00:22:34
true. But her mother, Jennifer, was not
00:22:37
content with that response. So, she
00:22:39
started stopping by her daughter's
00:22:41
apartment on AdSense just hoping to
00:22:43
catch him there. Queen and be like, "Oh,
00:22:45
here I am. I guess we'll just meet." Oh,
00:22:47
gee. Yeah. I love that. And honestly, it
00:22:49
paid off because eventually she stopped
00:22:51
by and was introduced to Jordan. Nice.
00:22:54
Now, you don't know who your daughter's
00:22:55
dated. I get it. Yeah, of course. It's
00:22:57
unclear what it was precisely about
00:22:59
Jordan that left Jennifer so
00:23:01
unimpressed. A gut feeling. Uh but it
00:23:03
was clear to friends that she had been
00:23:04
expecting something different. Oh, okay.
00:23:07
And it turned out her impression of him
00:23:09
didn't get any better in the days that
00:23:10
followed their introduction. According
00:23:12
to Jennifer's friend, Selena's mother
00:23:14
had developed some concerns about this
00:23:16
guy after learning some more stuff about
00:23:18
him. Jordan had told Selena he was still
00:23:21
married, but he was going to get a
00:23:22
divorce, which is like, uhoh. Uhhuh. Uh
00:23:25
he claimed he was about to inherit a
00:23:27
large sum of money. Fake. And he didn't
00:23:30
want his soon to be ex-wife to know
00:23:32
about that money so she would get half
00:23:34
of it. Messed up. So he asked Selena to
00:23:36
open an account in her name where they
00:23:38
could hide the money. Baby, no. And she
00:23:40
agreed. No. No. When someone 2020, but
00:23:46
you you're listening to this episode. If
00:23:48
somebody ever asks you to do that, no.
00:23:51
Run. It's a no. Leave. When they learned
00:23:53
about the bank account Selena opened on
00:23:55
her boyfriend's behalf, investigators
00:23:57
became concerned that what they had been
00:23:59
investigating as a missing person case
00:24:01
might actually be something far more
00:24:03
nefarious. Huh? Those suspicions only
00:24:06
grew when after talking to some of
00:24:07
Selena's co-workers, they learned that
00:24:09
it was Jordan who had told them Selena
00:24:11
was going away to Yoseite. Oh, no. Yeah.
00:24:14
Um, one of them said, so McMahon had
00:24:17
said, supposedly he is the last person
00:24:19
who may have seen Selena Bishop, and we
00:24:21
want to know when and where that was.
00:24:23
Yeah. The main problem investigators
00:24:25
faced was while they had a first name
00:24:28
for Selena's boyfriend, no one seemed to
00:24:30
know or had ever heard his last name.
00:24:33
And Jordan is a pretty common name.
00:24:35
Yeah. What they did know though was that
00:24:37
Selena had a pager that she frequently
00:24:39
used and it had been found among her
00:24:41
things at work. Okay. The pager was
00:24:43
turned over to investigators who began
00:24:45
combing through the numbers associated
00:24:47
with incoming calls. To their surprise,
00:24:50
none of the phone numbers were listed
00:24:51
under anyone by the name of Jordan. So,
00:24:54
he's using a fake name. But there was a
00:24:56
number that frequent that appeared
00:24:58
frequently on the list and it was
00:24:59
someone named Glenn Taylor Helzer. Not
00:25:02
Jordan. When detectives did a background
00:25:04
check on Helzer, they found no criminal
00:25:06
record or anything else that would be
00:25:08
considered a red flag. Okay. But there
00:25:10
was something that did jump out to
00:25:11
investigators. Helzer lived with his
00:25:14
brother Justin, who had recently
00:25:16
purchased and registered a 9 mm handgun.
00:25:19
I knew it. The same caliber used in the
00:25:21
shooting of Jennifer and James. Knew it.
00:25:24
Now, when investigators started digging
00:25:26
into the backgrounds of Taylor and
00:25:28
Justin Helzer, nothing about the two
00:25:30
guys fit the pattern of a criminal, much
00:25:32
less a murderer. Glenn Taylor Helzer was
00:25:35
born July 26th, 1970 to Jerry and Karma
00:25:38
Karma Helzer in Lancing, Michigan. He's
00:25:41
a cancer. Not long after Taylor's birth,
00:25:44
they moved to a town u the town of
00:25:46
Pachico, California in Contraosta
00:25:48
County, where their second son, Justin,
00:25:50
was born. The last of the three hellser
00:25:52
children. Wait, he's a Leo. Sorry. Just
00:25:55
kidding. From the moment he entered the
00:25:57
world, Taylor was the center of his
00:26:00
parents' life. Taylor was incredibly
00:26:03
bright, very charming. He had this like
00:26:05
natural leadership quality about him. It
00:26:07
very much drew people into him. Leo, as
00:26:10
devout members of the Mormon church,
00:26:12
Jerry and Karma were proud of more proud
00:26:14
of their eldest son's engagement with
00:26:16
the faith. The Mormon church, you say?
00:26:18
Yeah. I don't know if you caught that.
00:26:20
Ding, ding, ding. Um, but they really
00:26:22
liked that he was so involved in the
00:26:24
Mormon faith and that he could quote
00:26:26
large parts of scripture by the time he
00:26:28
was 12 years old. Cool. Neat, right?
00:26:33
Yeah. Uh, Taylor's cousin Charnie
00:26:36
Hoffman said, "We lived with them for
00:26:38
some time when I was young. I absolutely
00:26:39
loved him. He was very influential in my
00:26:42
life and lots of other people's lives.
00:26:43
Taylor was very accepting regardless of
00:26:46
the fact that that's not always the case
00:26:47
with people who are very religious. Mhm.
00:26:50
Uh Justin Helzer was 2 years younger
00:26:52
than his brother and almost 180° his
00:26:55
opposite. Right. So Taylor was outgoing,
00:26:58
had that way of drawing people in.
00:27:00
Justin was very shy, often aloof,
00:27:03
especially when it came to people he
00:27:04
didn't know. That's not to suggest that
00:27:07
he was like a dick or like unkind at all
00:27:10
or like off-putting in any way. He was
00:27:12
very quiet, very reserved, and he didn't
00:27:15
have like any of the confidence that it
00:27:17
seemed Taylor just exuded. Okay. When
00:27:20
people would recall Justin, they almost
00:27:22
always described him as living in his
00:27:24
brother's rather large shadow. That's
00:27:26
really sad. Yeah. Author Robert Scott
00:27:28
wrote, "Whereas Taylor seemed to have
00:27:30
countless friends in school, both male
00:27:32
and female, Justin had almost none. He
00:27:34
was painfully shy around girls, and
00:27:36
tried not to stick out in class." H now
00:27:38
when the boys were teens they went to
00:27:40
live with Karma's father so their
00:27:43
grandfather Doy Doyle Sorenson a man
00:27:46
whose Mormon faith was far more rigid
00:27:50
than KMAS Doyle Sorenson is a story book
00:27:53
character
00:27:55
in fact even some of the most
00:27:57
fundamentalist Mormon followers
00:27:59
considered his beliefs to be on the
00:28:01
fringes of the faith really particularly
00:28:03
with regard on hearing the word of God
00:28:06
on one occasion
00:28:07
Um, Doyle claimed I don't this for some
00:28:10
reason that the optics of this just made
00:28:13
me giggle a little bit. I just have to
00:28:15
say Doyle claimed that he'd seen Jesus
00:28:17
Christ on his front lawn. That's funny.
00:28:19
I just like why is he on the front lawn?
00:28:21
That's like that's just what I got to
00:28:23
ask. If I wake up and see Jesus Christ
00:28:25
on my front lawn, I'm going to go take a
00:28:27
cold shower. That's what I'm saying.
00:28:31
Like damn. Like there's you got like you
00:28:33
got to find some kind of love. Seeing
00:28:36
Jesus Christ on the front lawn is
00:28:37
definitely a point of levity for me. Did
00:28:39
he do acid the night before? Like what?
00:28:41
Well, and this is what's even crazier.
00:28:43
So, it wasn't just a vision. Like, it's
00:28:46
this was not a vision. He saw him as a
00:28:48
real corporal be being on his front
00:28:50
lawn. And what what's even wilder is
00:28:53
like he didn't just bop in and bop out.
00:28:56
Jesus. Yeah. He's several hours he stood
00:28:58
on that front lawn. JC is JC. He's Jesus
00:29:02
Christ is just chilling. He's just
00:29:04
chilling.
00:29:05
And then he disappeared. Okay. Like like
00:29:08
poof or like just like walked over. I
00:29:10
don't know. I don't know that. I can't I
00:29:12
can't You don't know how JC goes. I
00:29:14
can't speak to that. But uh he he was
00:29:16
hanging out on the front lawn for a
00:29:17
couple hours. He cometh and he goeth. He
00:29:19
did cometh and he did goeth. Uh now
00:29:23
obviously like we can be like, "Oh my
00:29:25
god, that's funny that he saw Jesus
00:29:26
Christ on his front lawn one day." Um,
00:29:29
but it then it becomes not funny when he
00:29:31
has young impressionable minds that are
00:29:33
going to be uh probably terrified and
00:29:37
believe this. Um, imagine if Papa walked
00:29:40
in a room and told us Jesus Christ was
00:29:42
on the front lawn. I'd be like, "Well,
00:29:43
it's time to call someone."
00:29:45
Well, I don't know what we do here. What
00:29:48
do you do? I don't know what the I don't
00:29:50
know what the answer to that is. You got
00:29:52
to go to the hospital. I'm like, okay,
00:29:55
cool. No, you got to go to the hospital.
00:29:57
go neat, neat, neat. Uh, but to the
00:30:00
young and impressionable Taylor, Doyle
00:30:03
became a significant influence. Yeah.
00:30:06
Because remember, he's he's wellversed
00:30:08
in Mormon um faith shenanigans. So, and
00:30:12
he he can speak the scripture from
00:30:14
memory. He can Oh, yeah. He can do like
00:30:17
So, he's in this like Taylor is really
00:30:19
like So, this guy is now influencing him
00:30:23
on a daily basis. Yeah. Um he admired
00:30:26
his grandfather's commitment to their
00:30:28
faith and his spirituality which that's
00:30:31
okay like you can admire someone's like
00:30:33
you know if you're in that absolutely um
00:30:35
and he even admired it when it was
00:30:37
dismissed or questioned by others which
00:30:39
you know that's fine. Okay. And that
00:30:41
said according to Robert Scott the
00:30:43
rigidity of their faith and the high
00:30:46
standards set by his grandfather were
00:30:48
also a very deep source of anxiety for
00:30:51
Taylor. Oh it was that was the dark part
00:30:53
of this. It's fine to admire someone who
00:30:55
if you have faith or you have
00:30:57
spirituality and someone you know has
00:31:00
even more you can see it's okay to
00:31:01
admire them for that. Yeah. It's when it
00:31:03
becomes a source of anxiety that you
00:31:05
have these standards set for you that
00:31:06
you can't possibly reach, especially as
00:31:09
a kid or a teen. Um so Scott wrote,
00:31:12
"Taylor had problems living up to these
00:31:14
Mormon ideals. He felt guilty after
00:31:16
after what he considered sinning,
00:31:18
especially if he masturbated. Consumed
00:31:20
with guilt, he tried committing suicide
00:31:22
at one point." Oh god, that's awful.
00:31:25
Although it would be many more years
00:31:27
before Taylor was formally diagnosed
00:31:29
with a mental illness, it was around
00:31:30
this time that some members of his
00:31:32
family and community did start to notice
00:31:34
some strange behavior. Mhm. Um, so
00:31:37
psychiatrist Doug uh Dr. Douglas Tucker
00:31:40
wrote in an assessment, Taylor as early
00:31:42
as 14 was experiencing ideas that were
00:31:45
unusual and inappropriate. He was
00:31:47
receiving audible messages by the age of
00:31:49
14. Taylor was told he had a gift of
00:31:52
revelation, but he didn't know if the
00:31:54
messages he were was receiving were from
00:31:56
God or Satan. Oh, that's a lot for a kid
00:31:59
to handle, dude. Yeah, that's very sad.
00:32:01
That's a lot to put on a kid. When he
00:32:04
was 17 and still ineligible to enlist,
00:32:07
Taylor joined the National Guard. It's
00:32:09
unclear whether this was achieved with
00:32:11
the permission of his parents or as a
00:32:13
result of poor processing on the part of
00:32:15
the guard. Um, but either way, he was
00:32:18
accepted into the National Guard and
00:32:20
sent to Texas for his initial training
00:32:21
period. As is often the case with young
00:32:24
people who have been raised in pretty
00:32:25
sheltered communities, the transition
00:32:28
from a strict Mormon community to a
00:32:30
largely secular and adult world of the
00:32:32
National Guard was a bit of a culture
00:32:34
shock. Yeah, I'm sure. Um, taken aback
00:32:37
by all the swearing, drinking, and
00:32:38
sexual activity among his fellow
00:32:40
recruits, Taylor initially tried to
00:32:43
preach to them in the hope that his
00:32:45
words might convert some of them or at
00:32:47
least help them see the folly of their
00:32:49
ways. Some found his words interesting,
00:32:53
you know, like, let's just see what he
00:32:54
has to say. But most of them were just
00:32:56
like, you're being a little bit zealous
00:32:59
here, like let's tone it down. You're
00:33:00
being an arc. Now, once he finished his
00:33:02
training with the National Guard and
00:33:04
returned home, Taylor decided to take
00:33:06
the first step into adulthood that
00:33:08
almost all young Mormon men take by
00:33:10
going on a mission. Yeah, Jack Barlo.
00:33:13
There you go. In the LDS faith, young
00:33:16
men mark their transition from child to
00:33:18
adult by leaving home to another part of
00:33:20
the country or even another part of the
00:33:22
world to preach their values and
00:33:23
fundamentals of their beliefs to other
00:33:26
people. Mhm. Just not on my door. No.
00:33:28
Um, I actually told some to leave the
00:33:31
other day. True. She did. So, and then
00:33:34
we looked at really good no soliciting
00:33:35
signs. It's a no, it's a no thank you
00:33:37
for me. Until very recently, this
00:33:39
process meant the individuals would be
00:33:40
cut off from their families and their
00:33:43
home cultures for long stretches of time
00:33:45
until the mission came to an end and
00:33:47
they returned home. I think they're
00:33:48
typically like two years. Are they
00:33:50
really? I think at least the one Jack
00:33:52
Barlo went on. There you go. That's
00:33:53
Housewives of Salt Lake City in case you
00:33:56
were wondering. I I was uh I I knew
00:33:58
Barlo was one of those gorgeous case.
00:34:01
Well, Baby Gorgeous is Henry, but I
00:34:02
digress. Now, in Taylor's case, he was
00:34:05
sent to Brazil to serve his mission. In
00:34:08
his diary, there you go. In his diary,
00:34:10
Taylor wrote, "When I arrived, I felt
00:34:12
equal parts excited and overwhelmed.
00:34:14
Excited simply because I was anxious to
00:34:16
serve on a mission, but nervous because
00:34:18
you're a little out of your element.
00:34:20
It's a new experience, and you're a long
00:34:22
way from home." Despite his
00:34:24
apprehension, Taylor settled in pretty
00:34:26
quickly to his new environment and found
00:34:28
that like he had been back in
00:34:29
California. He was very popular with the
00:34:31
other young men serving their missions
00:34:33
in Brazil. One missionary later said, "I
00:34:35
very much enjoyed working with him. He
00:34:37
seemed to have a genuine care for the
00:34:39
people. I felt that he was particularly
00:34:40
effective in teaching. People seemed to
00:34:42
like him and he had a very, very capable
00:34:44
manner about him." Cool. It was true
00:34:46
that Taylor found some success in
00:34:48
Brazil, but at the same time, his
00:34:50
symptoms of his mental illness appeared
00:34:51
to have worsened during this period.
00:34:54
Some people described his preaching and
00:34:56
interpretation of scripture as manic,
00:34:59
often going off on tangents. Um,
00:35:02
according to uh fellow missionary
00:35:05
Jonathan Taylor, he would uh trying to
00:35:08
discern thoughts beyond the surface of
00:35:10
meaning is what he would do. Uh he would
00:35:12
also go several nights without sleeping,
00:35:14
staying up all night to read from the
00:35:16
Book of Mormon and analyze the text. And
00:35:19
Jonathan Taylor, that fellow missionary,
00:35:21
said it wasn't long before others
00:35:23
started noticing a difference in
00:35:24
Taylor's demeanor. Yeah. Um Jonathan
00:35:27
said the changes in Taylor were fairly
00:35:29
abrupt. Some of the conclusions and
00:35:31
beliefs he began to draw, he'd state
00:35:33
them more emphatically. He sense he had
00:35:35
been given in additional inspiration to
00:35:37
kind of understand how the tenants of
00:35:39
the faith connected. So I think he's
00:35:41
feeling a little more like I am the word
00:35:43
of God kind of he's he's treading close
00:35:45
to those waters. He was JC on the lawn.
00:35:48
Exactly. Now becoming more steadfast and
00:35:51
zealous at this point in his beliefs
00:35:53
weren't the only thing that the other
00:35:54
missionaries were finding off-putting.
00:35:56
In addition in addition to his righteous
00:35:58
certainty, Taylor's beliefs and
00:36:01
worldview had taken a little bit of a
00:36:03
darker tone. Uh Jonathan recalls Helzer
00:36:06
dwelled upon certain cataclysmic events
00:36:09
in the latter days. He would talk about
00:36:11
his opinion that there would be the
00:36:12
elimination of technology
00:36:15
which is like that that when you hear it
00:36:18
like that you're like that just sounds
00:36:19
like regular like theorizing. Yeah. No.
00:36:22
In addition to his increasingly though
00:36:24
apocalyptic vision of the future I think
00:36:27
it's when it treads into that like manic
00:36:29
territory of like doomsday like prepare
00:36:31
for the proph Yeah. Um, Taylor had also
00:36:36
become increasingly and eventually
00:36:38
verbally frustrated with the mission's
00:36:40
leadership. In Taylor's eyes, the
00:36:42
mission president was an ineffective
00:36:44
leader who lacked the spiritual
00:36:46
fortitude to lead them. Oh. Now,
00:36:48
according to Jonathan Taylor, that
00:36:50
fellow missionary, if there were things
00:36:52
that he didn't feel were accurate, if he
00:36:54
or he didn't agree with them, he kind of
00:36:56
dismissed them by saying the church
00:36:57
leaders either knew the truth and
00:36:58
weren't revealing it, or they didn't
00:37:00
know the truth, and therefore he was not
00:37:02
accountable to them. Oh, above the
00:37:05
church. He's going rogue, folks. Yeah.
00:37:07
Upon returning home from his mission, he
00:37:10
settled back to life in California. And
00:37:12
in 1993, he married his high school
00:37:15
girlfriend, Anne, much to the
00:37:17
disappointment of his brother, Justin,
00:37:18
who was away on his own mission when the
00:37:20
wedding took place. Oh, that's really
00:37:22
sad. I know. You can't have a wedding
00:37:24
without your brother. Anne told a
00:37:26
reporter Justin was hurt that Taylor
00:37:28
never consulted him about getting
00:37:29
married. As far as Justin saw it,
00:37:32
getting married was a major decision,
00:37:33
and he couldn't understand why his
00:37:35
brother wouldn't at least wait 6 months
00:37:36
until Justin returned so he could go to
00:37:38
the wedding. Yeah. Oh, that actually
00:37:40
hurts my heart. Yeah. As it turned out,
00:37:42
it might have been wise for Taylor and
00:37:44
Anne to wait a little longer before
00:37:46
getting married. Yeah. According to
00:37:47
Anne, the marriage started to go bad not
00:37:49
very long after they returned home from
00:37:51
the honeymoon. Oh, that's terrible. They
00:37:52
argued all the time, and Anne was
00:37:55
endlessly frustrated with the fact that
00:37:57
everything always had to be Taylor's
00:37:59
way. She said Taylor had an unrealistic
00:38:02
view of the world. He had never been
00:38:04
able to watch television at his parents'
00:38:06
home. So, in our home, for the first
00:38:08
time, he could watch cable television.
00:38:10
He would stay up all night and then have
00:38:12
to be at work by 6:00 a.m. He couldn't
00:38:14
pull himself away. Oh, that's it's like
00:38:17
when you like don't let a kid eat any
00:38:20
sugar and then they get to go to a
00:38:21
friend's house or like a birthday party
00:38:23
and they just gorge themselves on it. It
00:38:26
wasn't just cable television that Taylor
00:38:28
had become fixated with. It was
00:38:30
everything that he was experiencing for
00:38:32
the first time.
00:38:34
Having grown up in a very strict
00:38:36
religious household, Taylor and his
00:38:38
siblings had been denied many of the
00:38:40
things most American children experience
00:38:42
pretty regularly, you know, sweets, junk
00:38:45
food, video games, television. So, when
00:38:47
he was finally able to access those
00:38:49
things as an adult, he had no
00:38:51
moderation, right? Could not moderate
00:38:53
what he was doing. Like, it was just
00:38:55
fully full throttle. According to Robert
00:38:58
Scott, the one thing Taylor wanted more
00:39:00
than anything else was sex like he saw
00:39:03
on porno videos, which is not real. He
00:39:06
had no sex education and no sexual
00:39:09
experience. So, he didn't seem to
00:39:11
understand that what he saw in porn
00:39:13
films was a carefully orchestrated
00:39:16
fantasy and not at all similar to what
00:39:19
relatively ordinary sexual,
00:39:22
you know, active adults experience. See,
00:39:24
in my opinion, that's why you have to
00:39:26
talk about it. Yeah. Earlier, because
00:39:29
then that's the first thing you're that
00:39:31
he sees. Yeah. Scott wrote, uh, he
00:39:34
begged his wife for the things he saw,
00:39:35
but Anne was not comfortable doing some
00:39:37
of the things depicted on those videos.
00:39:39
Yeah, porn's crazy. Porn goes wild. In
00:39:42
retrospect, Anne blames many of Taylor's
00:39:44
problems and shortcomings on his
00:39:46
parents, particularly his mother, Karma.
00:39:48
As far as she could tell, Jerry Helzer
00:39:51
was a laid-back, nice guy, while his
00:39:53
wife was the more intense of the two,
00:39:56
ruling over the family with a religious
00:39:57
fervor she'd learned from her father.
00:39:59
Her father, I was wondering. Yeah. Karma
00:40:01
treated Taylor as he was the golden
00:40:03
child. He could do no wrong. He was
00:40:05
deserving of everything he wanted.
00:40:07
That's so true. And Taylor internalized
00:40:09
those messages and then he carried them
00:40:10
into adulthood. Yeah. That's why he
00:40:12
thinks he's a prophet. And it made him
00:40:14
very difficult. It made him difficult to
00:40:16
be around and it made it difficult for
00:40:18
him to interact with people who didn't
00:40:20
immediately give in to his literal every
00:40:22
whim in demand. Yeah. Not long after
00:40:25
their wedding, Anne's uncle managed to
00:40:27
get Taylor a job with financial
00:40:29
investment firm Morgan Stanley. Oh [ __ ]
00:40:32
I don't know if you remember in the
00:40:33
beginning, um, but Ivan and Annette were
00:40:38
able to save so much money because they
00:40:41
worked with a young financial adviser at
00:40:44
Morgan Stanley. The way that you just
00:40:45
took this [ __ ] full circle. I just want
00:40:47
to put that out there. Despite having
00:40:50
taken only one semester of college
00:40:52
courses and having no experience in
00:40:54
financial management, he took to the
00:40:56
work pretty easily and was he was a
00:40:59
success. Like he did well. His
00:41:00
confidence, his ability to charm people
00:41:02
made him popular with qu clients and
00:41:04
pretty fearless when it came to making
00:41:06
cold calls and pitching their services.
00:41:08
So, found his niche. I mean, being a
00:41:11
missionary, I'm sure it was probably
00:41:12
easier for him to make those cold calls.
00:41:14
Yeah, he's used to doing that stuff.
00:41:16
Yeah. Um, Taylor's personal and
00:41:18
professional success lasted a few years,
00:41:20
but by the mid to late 1990s, things
00:41:22
started to change. At work, his boss
00:41:24
began noticing that Taylor had taken up
00:41:26
smoking and was spending a lot of time
00:41:28
in the evening going out to clubs and
00:41:30
bars. He had also let his appearance and
00:41:32
hygiene slip more and more as the days
00:41:35
went by. He grew his hair long. He
00:41:37
didn't do anything to make it
00:41:38
presentable. And most important, he was
00:41:41
becoming unreliable. By the summer of
00:41:43
1996, Anne had also begun to notice
00:41:46
these changes in Taylor. Uh what what he
00:41:49
described as testing out the quote
00:41:51
sinning side of life. Oh, from what Anne
00:41:54
could tell, Taylor felt he had been let
00:41:56
down by the Mormon church and led into a
00:41:58
life he didn't want and felt he was
00:42:00
superior to. Okay. A few months later,
00:42:03
Taylor and Anne's marriage completely
00:42:05
fell apart and she filed for divorce.
00:42:08
Taylor continued to just fall apart
00:42:10
essentially in the months and years that
00:42:12
followed. And in 1998, he was let go
00:42:15
from his job at Morgan Stanley. Oh no.
00:42:17
No longer able to maintain a job, Taylor
00:42:19
began the process of applying for Social
00:42:22
Security disability, which required him
00:42:24
to be evaluated by a psychiatrist. Mhm.
00:42:27
On September 1st, 1998, Taylor was
00:42:30
referred to an intensive outpatient
00:42:32
program for individuals whose symptoms
00:42:34
and mental illness severely impair their
00:42:36
functioning and requires multiple
00:42:38
contacts with a social worker and/or a
00:42:41
psychiatric treatment team. Okay. Which
00:42:43
is pretty intense. Yeah. It was during
00:42:45
the intake process for that program that
00:42:47
Taylor was diagnosed with bipolar
00:42:49
disorder, type one, with manic features.
00:42:52
This diagnosis and the need for ongoing
00:42:54
intensive treatment qualified Taylor for
00:42:57
um social security disability um
00:42:59
payments. Yeah. And he was approved in
00:43:01
1998. A year later, Taylor
00:43:04
excommunicated from the Morban Church
00:43:06
for his drug use and a lifestyle that
00:43:08
was increasingly out of step with the
00:43:10
teachings of the church. Oh. So they
00:43:12
like kicked him out. Yeah, he was
00:43:13
excommunicated. Damn.
00:43:15
And that's where we're going to leave
00:43:18
you because for part two, we're going to
00:43:20
pick back up where we began. Okay. But I
00:43:23
wanted to make sure you got a full
00:43:26
picture of who Taylor is. I think we
00:43:28
have that picture. What's going on here?
00:43:30
Yeah. My my wheels are turning upstairs.
00:43:33
And I want you to chew on that for a
00:43:34
minute and then part two will take you
00:43:36
to the take you to the thunder. Yeah,
00:43:40
the thunder. Yeah. Okay. The thunder.
00:43:42
Well, I guess with that being said, we
00:43:44
hope you keep listening and we hope you
00:43:46
keep it weird, but not so weird that you
00:43:49
see JC JC on your front lawn. Hey
00:43:57
[Music]
00:44:08
[Music]
00:44:27
[Music]